C's syntax (was Re: Python Formatted C Converter (PfCC))

[Alex Martelli]

"Grant Griffin" <not.this at seebelow.org> wrote in message
news:39F8985B.6909B5CF at seebelow.org...
    [snip]
> Like the people who responded to that thread, I guess I'm kindda
> suspicious of people who brag about their amazing abilities and
> accomplishments.  First, my experience has been that those who actually
> accomplish the most tend to brag the least.  (Anybody remember hearing

I think it's a cultural issue.  Many cultures follow, to some extent, the
pattern you describe: those cultures' members are encouraged or even
strongly pressured to verbally downplay their status, accomplishments,
etc.  I'm sure you can easily think of (e.g., Oriental) cultures where
this holds to an even stronger degree than in yours.  Cultures that do
not share this trait much may even see this as hypocrisy.

The contrast is striking in the Arthurian cycles, where heroes depicted
as close to the roots of Celtic and German pagan cultures "brag", and are
often placed in a clash with knights displaying the "proper" Christian
attitude of "humility" (indeed, "downplay your status so that others by
contrast will praise you" is the literal lesson of one Gospel parable --
see what I mean about this being "seen as hypocrisy"?-).  Or, to take
a well-documented historical period, look at the very-late Roman Republic:
neither Cicero nor Caesar had compunctions about bragging about their
accomplishments, but the latter slyly managed to do it *in the third
person* (in the De Bello Gallico; elsewhere, he _was_ prone to using
first-person, as in, "I came, I saw, I conquered":-).  Octavian, even
slyer, got _others_ to praise him instead.  We see the hints here of a
transition-period, between it being socially all right to brag, and a
later preference for "humility".

Then, there is an issue of context.  Suppose you happen to be very
expert about, say, skiing.  Some clueless guy makes a remark, on an
unrelated forum, about skiing -- one so deeply and utterly wrong, as
you feel thanks to your specific expertise, as to need being intensely
rebutted.  You do so.  CG reacts by strongly implying that the only
people who disagree with that remark are "those who don't like skiing".
So: are you going to reinforce your rebuttal, by letting it be known
to all readers that, far from "not liking skiing", you ARE an expert
in it -- or are you going to let hypoc^H^H^H^Humility stand in the
way of delivering a clear, sincere, and explicit message?


> Guido brag?  No!!!)  Second, my experience has been that those who brag
> the most tend to have accomplished the least.  This seemed strange to me
> at first, but it actually makes perfect sense: true accomplishments brag
> for themselves, so no bragging needs to be done; however, for those who

Not necessarily: it depends on context -- see above.  How is anybody
outside my firm going to know that I was the one who introduced C
here, and taught several courses about it, for example, unless I tell
them?  *HOW*, exactly, is THAT "accomplishment" going to "speak by itself"
to rebut the idiocy of the CG trying to lump me in with "those who
don't like C"?  The same book, above-mentioned, that suggests "seating
at the foot of the table", also has harsh words against those who,
having a lit lamp, hide it under a bushel...:-).

If you're trying to psychoanalyze yourself to explain why you react
badly to anything that looks to you like "bragging", then the above
paragraph is probably quite perceptive.  I just hope you don't take
this self-analysis as a *rational* or *defensible* argument in
the case at hand.


> of this about 5 years ago.)  The bragging usually impresses people at
> first, but then one invariably discovers "the man behind the curtain".
> (FYI: That was from "The Wizard of Oz".)

I'm reasonably familiar with Baum's novels, and Fleming-and-others' movie,
thanks (and I don't think the implied parallels in your quoting in this
context make much sense, but that's another issue).

> But that being said, seriously: the considerable accomplishments you
> listed are probably entirely accurate; the fact that you share them with
> all of comp.lang.python probably defies my generalization above.

"All generalizations are suspect" (self-referential quote alert).

> > Sorry, I'm a specialist in everything _except_ TV,
>
> TV is one of the good things in life.  Live a little.  :-)

I'm visually challenged enough that the contents of what I view
on-screen had better be worth the ocular effort (computer screens
are different, as I can enlarge the font at need).  Six+ hours
of TV viewing per day, which I'm told is the US population average,
is well beyond what my eyes can stand, even if my mind could.


> Just for the record, Backus also played "Mr. McGoo"--athough one can't

I'll trust you on this.  Like many people with even mild physical
disabilities, and like anybody with decent empathy, I have a hard
time understanding what's supposed to be fun in sight-impairment.


Alex