Zope & Python

[Cary O'Brien]

I've been thinking about this a lot lately.  I am going
to rant now.

My big gripe with most web development systems is that they
mix presentation with business logic.  Yuck.  Bad idea. 
Trust me.  (more comments below).

[snip]
>
>Anyway XML should be your glue now.
>

I'm not convinced.  Ok, it is a cross language data format, which is a good
idea (rather than a python pickle or a serialized java object), but there
are other data formats like whatever the heck Corba uses and Tuxedo 
FML buffers.  Ok, FML is proprietary but it is cross-language. 

All the CPUS are now going to spend all their time packing and unpacking
giant XML trees rather than doing real work.

[snip]

>> > b) If we develop web applications in accordance with the Java Servlet
>API,
>> > we can upgrade the platform from Apache+Tomcat running on Linux to Sun's
>> > Java Webserver, or IBM Websphere, or BEA Weblogic (BEA is the industry
>> > leader in OLTP middleware), or any number of other commercial
>> > implementations.  What is the upgrade path for Zope?
>
>You'll only need that upgrade path when some architect or business decision
>makers decides that we must have J2EE/EJB compliance on the middle tier. But
>tell me, in 2-5 years time when we decide that we need fully
>parallel/distributed architectures not tiering, what is your upgrade path
>from Java middleware?
>

Middleware.  Think middleware.  My current leaning is to use language
independant middleware (Corba or Tuxedo) to define the interfaces and
connect things together.  Then different versions of the same things,
implemented in different languages, can all coexist.

>> > c) Java allows a wide choice of compilers, debugging and profiling
>tools,
>> > modelling tools, middleware, and libraries for everything under the sun.
>It
>> > is a mainstream language for commercial applications, with a relatively
>> > large pool of programming expertise and with support from most major
>> > industry players (besides Microsoft). Python may be gaining popularity,
>but
>> > is way behind Java.
>

How many broken java programs have you dealt with?  How many mystery JVM
errors have you seen?  How much time have you spent fighting with
JVM incompatibilities.  Now change java to python and JVM to PVM.
Different story, eh?

But my *MAJOR* gripe about Java is that it doesn't play well with
others.  Look at JINI.  If you want to talk JINI you *MUST* have
a JVM so that you can load the interface code.  What if I don't want
to pay the cpu and memory price for a JVM?  What if I don't want to
download someone elses java classes into my interpreter?  OK, so
XML and XMLRPC are going go be the lingua fraca (?sp) of the new
software world.  

Ok.  Rant over.  Fire away.

-- cary