Wild-eyed thinking aloud: Python System Management Infrastructure

[William Annis]

Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> writes:

> > Of course there are free various tools that do these sorts of things
> > out there, but they don't exactly play well together, if at all.  I
> > have ideas on how communication should work, and though I have avoided
> > the XML kool-aid up to now, I'm willing to concede XML-RPC might be
> > useful here.
> 
> XML is not kool-aid, it's an elixir: "good for what ails ye'" :-)

        Oh boy.  I think you've been mainlining the XML kool-aid. 

> You are describing a system in which, I believe, XML is well 
> suited to play a role.  Its primary advantage is as a standard for
> inter-application communication, which is a problem at the heart
> of your situation.  

        I'll agree with this in principle.  There's still the very,
very serious question about how you get applications to agree on what
exactly to talk about and how.  XML is convenient, but you still have
to work with what the AI people call an "ontology" and this must be
designed carefully when dealing with more than a handful of tools.

        Think for a moment about the tendency of people and companies
writing software to invent brave, new terminology to describe the same
old problems and it should start to be clear what a serious problem
this is.  I can easily write XML to describe a Whatsit but unless all
my programs agree what a Whatsit *is* (and doesn't AIX call it a
Whoosit?) and what sort of things you can say about it, you've merely
deferred the problem.

> I would start by making the decision to standardize on XML 
> as a representation for *all* your various data sources and
> sinks, whether that means storing the data in raw XML, or 
> just providing converters to change to or from XML so you
> can continue to work with your existing formats until the
> process is "complete" (whatever that means). 

        I simply refuse to edit XML by hand.  XML is simply a more
verbose assembly language.  No one should have to edit that mess, any
more than the average sysadmin should have to edit a sendmail config
file... that's why M4 exists.  I'll never use a tool which requires me
to fiddle with raw XML.  It's a waste of my time and I refuse to run
the risk of getting repetitive-stress injury just to use some
over-hyped technology.  Ooh.  I'm ranting now...

        I'll stick with the converters idea for now.

> Once this step is accomplished, you could focus on specific
> components or subsystems, one at a time.  Take the worst
> problems and rewrite them as desired.  Use Python and its
> XML support to smooth over existing rough areas.  Use it
> to glue in (cheap) tools which can serve your purpose in
> other areas, Python-based or not.  Migrate to using a web
> interface for all your front-end needs, whether accepting
> data input from you or users, or generating reports.  

        I was with you up to the web interface.  I don't know about
you, but *this* sysadmin breaks out in hives at the idea of putting
system control and configuration behind a web server... by definition
a public service.

> Over time you will find you gradually eliminate the last
> traces of entire technologies in your system.

        Bwaa-haaaahaaa-haaaa!

        Um.  *giggle*  Sorry.

        Show me a single site that has ever accomplished this.  I
forget which LISA conferece it was, but Rémy Evard gave a talk once
showing that once a site has settled into a configuration management
system, they *don't change* it significantly.  He questioned about a
dozen sites and summarized the data.  (I just checked... that talk
isn't on his web site.)

        I start with the assumption that irritating by necessary old
junk will always exists.  No one has time to write replacements for
everything. 

> This exercise in Utopythian thinking brought to 
> you by the letters X, M and L. :-)

        Man, you need help.  :)

> > William Annis - System Administrator - Biomedical Computing Group
> > annis at biostat.wisc.edu                       PGP ID:1024/FBF64031
> > Mi parolas Esperanton - La Internacian Lingvon  www.esperanto.org
> 
> Do vi ankorau komprenas la avantaghojn de interlingvoj, 
> kiel XML, chu ne?  Ne necesas, ke mi konvinku vin. :)

        XML ne estas interlingvo, sed estas inter-informilo.
Informajho estas nek scio nek lingvo.

-- 
William Annis - System Administrator - Biomedical Computing Group
annis at biostat.wisc.edu                       PGP ID:1024/FBF64031
Mi parolas Esperanton - La Internacian Lingvon  www.esperanto.org