REPOST: PythonCard, ease of use, and the GUI problem/opportunity/niche

[Ron Stephens]

Bingo! Boy, oh, boy, do I agree with you on this. I think you hit the nail right on the head.

Building a gui now using Python, compared to using VB, really sucks. Yes, it's that bad.

Whichever reasonably easy to use language (right now I'm thinking either Python, Ruby, or a yet-to-be created
language) first gets an open source gui builder built on top of it that is as easy to learn and use as VB will
dominate the world.

It must, in my opinion, be as easy to use as VB for building simple input and output forms. That's the key. It
doesn't have to be any more powerful or anything else. Just easy. This is a crying out loud need that anyone
can see; someone will solve it, I am sure. It's too big an opportunityto be forever ignored. Unfortunately, I
am beginning to hae my doubts that it will be a Python-based solution. I sure hope I'm wrong.

The only hope that I know of right now is PythonCard, only a six month old project led by Kevin Altis. I
really admire Kevin and his team and I admire this project. I think they are ace coders (especially Kevin )
who are capable of doing what needs getting done. But I am afraid they will miss the mark, partly for the same
reason as Zope has its detractors, namely, lack of good, easy to use documentation for learning and using the
language.

Now, I know it's not fair to compare Pythoncard to Zope, as PythonCard is only six months old and pre-alpha,
for heavens sake ;-))) But when you love something, ..

I am really like a cranky old uncle that only dotes from afar on a precocious child. I have nothing to do with
PythonCard, have contributed nothing, etc. But I admire it from afar like a doting uncle.

But I haven't tried to use PythonCard in many weeks, a fact I hope to remedy this weekend. But I stopped
trying because, while I could see the brilliance of design and implementation, and potential for ease of use,
I couldn't get much farther due to lack of documentation.

What's a resource file anyway? What's an application framework? Yes I'm a clueless newbie, but that's what the
winner in this battle must do, create something as easy to learn and use as VB is for a clueless newbie. For
now, unfortunately, I find it easier to use Tkinter because I have tutorials, online documentation, and even
books. PythonCard actuall seems harder to me as it stands.

Maybe some of us could actually *help* create some documentation for PythonCard???? It's home page is at
SourceForge at http://pythoncard.sourceforge.net/

So go check it out. I really believe this is important. I'm going to try to use it this weekend. Lets discuss
it, then, OK?????

Ron Stephens
http://www.awaretek.com/plf.html



Rest Cent wrote:

> The real source of growth for both Python and Ruby are the 3M VB
> developers worldwide. Whichever can provide what it is that VB
> developers like about VB on top of what Python and Ruby natively offer
> will hit the jackpot. To me these are: (a) Visual drag-and-drop
> application builder with data aware controls, and (b) good support for
> the big databases (Oracle, Sybase, Informix). I'm going through the
> gui chapters of Mark Lutz' PP2E, and while I can see that handcrafting
> gui this way gives me a lot of control, I'm thinking I don't want to
> do this -- I'm a database application developer. I want to write a
> dynamic work order system and I have no ambition to become a system
> tool maker. And so do the 3M VB developers.
>
> VB used to be a toy language. Not too long ago no respectable company
> would use VB for their corporate systems. It did not start to become
> an enterprise solution until VB3. What happened there?
>
> VB 6 will be retired in favor of VB.NET. Personally I think that the
> direction VB has taken, towards a verbose C#, is misguided. VB should
> have evolved into something like Python or Ruby. With VB.NET, VB
> programmers will ask, "What's the point?" Might as well dive into C#.
> Or look around for something else.
>
> Hopefully by that time -- 18 months from now? -- Python and/or Ruby
> will have what it is VB programmers cannot live without.
>
> Folks, come up with (a) and (b) above, then start posting at c.l.vb.
>
>
> Paul Prescod <paul at prescod.net> wrote in message news:<mailman.1009581813.21884.python-list at python.org>...
> > Dave Thomas wrote:
> > >
> > > ... Instead, Ruby will attract folks from outside the
> > > Python world. Ruby and Python differ in philosophy and _feel_. Some
> > > folks like one, some the other. I don't see it as competition. I see
> > > it as choice.
> >
> > Is there really a difference? Pepsi and Coke are choices. They are also
> > in competition. They have a somewhat different taste but are more
> > similar than different. In the long run, there will come a day when
> > they've taken as much of the market share of other drinks away as they
> > will, and the primary competition will be between the two of them.
> >
> >  Paul Prescod

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From: Ron Stephens <rdsteph at earthlink.net>
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