Time for a Fresh Scheme Standard: Say Goodbye to the RnRS Relic

[New Scheme]

David Rush <kumo at bellsouth.net> wrote in message news:<okfg064ugsh.fsf at bellsouth.net>...

> So who the fuck are you anyway? 
[...]
> This is such bullshit...
[...]
> This is such bullshit, it has to be a troll. You're secretly Erik
> Naggum aren't you? 
[...]
> I did it in Scheme because I don't have to fuck around with 
> a lot of stupid mis-features from 'advanced' languages like 
> Perl, Python, Tcl, Ruby, or (God help us) C++ and Java
[...]
> the current generation of no-talent simps graduating into 
> the CS business.

> > Solicit help from the Common Lisp community
[...]
> They're a bunch of losers who have bought and sold the
> lambda-nature for a profit. 
[...]
>  So who the fuck are you, Mr. Hotmail.com?

Your extreme pathologic response clearly demonstrates the problem with
the small, fundamentalist group of scheme "defenders of the faith"
that are being left further and further behind as the world moves
forward.

Anyone calling for injection of fresh ideas into the language is
attacked with a level of spite and religious vehemence rarely seen
outside of fundamentalist religious sects.

Rather than address the issues raised in the positing, you spent
considerable effort attacking me and others in your reply.  You
attacked other languages such as Lisp, C++ and Perl..  You attacked
the other programming communities as if they were the devils own.  I
can just imagine you frothing at the mouth, up on the pulpit declaring
that the evil sinners who do not follow the one true way of scheme
will rot in hell for all eternity.

Resisting the inevitable, sticking your head in the sand and yelling
obscenities at anyone and everyone who has the audacity to suggest
change is like pissing into an oncoming typhoon
 you just end up with
wet pants, looking like a sad old man who has lost all bowel control.

Its time to reinvigorate scheme.  See you in hell.

...
> david rush
> (who has just watched _the matrix_ for the first time and is feeling
> pretty radicalized just at the moment)

Congratulations on seeing the matrix; its only been out for, like,
three years.  That explains alot.


-----------------------------------------------------------
David Rush <kumo at bellsouth.net> wrote in message news:<okfg064ugsh.fsf at bellsouth.net>...
> <posted-and-mailed why="cross-postings to cll and clf">
> <flame mode="on">
> newscheme at hotmail.com (New Scheme) writes:
> 
> So who the fuck are you anyway? I mean really, behind the
> freshly-minted hotmail alias. You sound like Tom Lord, but that's just
> my opinion.
> 
> > ***************************************************************
> >             Time for a Fresh Scheme Standard 
> >           And to Say Goodbye to the RnRS Relic
> 
> This is such bullshit that I think I'm being trolled. Congratulations
> whoever, you have succeeded - but I don't agree with either your tone
> or your explicit opinions.  R5RS is an excellent document, in spite of
> its need for revision. I have only two issues that I think *must* be
> fixed, and only one of them is truly controversial.
> 
> No I'm not going to list them - If you don't know you can google for
> the info, but I suspect that you already do know. And I suspect that
> you have a particular wish-list...care to come out of the closet?
> 
> > Is it time for a new scheme standard? 
> 
> No. It is time to open discussions.
> 
> > Is it time to make a break from the ossified RnRS document?
> 
> No. It has been one of the most successful language standards
> documents in history, at least by my criteria.
> 
> > Is it time to bring Scheme into the 21st century?
> 
> No. The 21st century still has a lot of catching up to do.
> 
> > Scheme has become very dated.  The RnRS series of documents are a
> > relic of a more dynamic past but are now little more than a fossil
> > record of its ever slowing development. 
> 
> This is such bullshit, it has to be a troll. You're secretly Erik
> Naggum aren't you? The RnRS series is converging on an idealized
> language; the changes are *bound* to become smaller over time.
> 
> > With each year that passes,
> > scheme becomes more irrelevant to the practical and academic software
> > development, education and research worlds.
> 
> Well I can't speak to academia, but I've got 7KLOC (and headed for the
> 20s) of very intelligent *commercially-developed* software which is
> very relevant to our business. I did it in Scheme because I don't have
> to fuck around with a lot of stupid mis-features from 'advanced'
> languages like Perl, Python, Tcl, Ruby, or (God help us) C++ and Java;
> all languages which will very quickly become dead-weight in legacy
> systems ensuring long-term pay stability for the current generation of
> no-talent simps graduating into the CS business.
> 
> Scheme Lives!
> 
> > Solicit help from the Common Lisp community and
> > draw upon their extensive practical experience.  
> 
> There are no good ideas over there. They've completely missed the
> boat. They're a bunch of losers who have bought and sold the
> lambda-nature for a profit. I mean really, who could take a language
> with that 'for' construct seriously. The 'do' is Scheme is bad
> enough. And CLOS, let's not waste time with that over-designed Sherman
> Tank. It's not even close to the bleeding edge of object-think.
> 
> > Learn from the
> > Functional community and their many strong ideas.  
> 
> There is a *huge* cross-over from Scheme to the functional
> community. Scheme occupies a significant patch of the intellectual
> turf: untyped, eager-evaluation lambda-calculus.
> 
> > And ask the compiler vendors about practicalities.
> 
> There are 2: Chez (who seem to be taking the same tack that killed
> Smalltalk and charging $4000/seat), and Erian Concept (who I keep
> trying - and failing - to convince myself to try their free beer
> version). Scheme, in addition to advancing the pursuit of the
> lambda-nature is also essentially free: more free than any other
> language. Clearly freedom is too difficult for the mainstream software
> community to deal with, but so what? If I lived in New Hampshire I
> would put a motion to the State legislature to make Scheme the
> official computer language of the State (the State motto is 'Live Free
> or Die'), there are more high (and low) quality 'free speech' Schemes
> than exist for any other language. What does *that* tell you?
> 
> > Its time for a fresh look at scheme.  Its time to break away from the
> > RnRS and its brotherhood of old men in their isolated,
> > self-referential world.  Its time to reinvigorate the language.
> 
> Those are fucking *smart* old men. I just want to get them engaged
> again. I realize that the political infighting that got us a language
> as good as R5RS is a PITA - I have to deal with similar bullshit as a
> software architect at my day job. And it's a thankless job because at
> the end of the day, people are only going to pick the thing apart, but
> still somebody's got to do it.
> 
> I'm not going to pretend that I can keep up with Shriram, Matthias F,
> Will, and Jonathan, or even Olin (no offense intended to Olin, I just
> am not aware of his contributions to R5RS), Matthias B, Oleg, and A*
> Petrofsky. I do care a lot about Scheme, though, and I wish that we
> could get some movement. I fear that Scheme might well suffer the fate
> of C and get replaced with something almost infinitely worse if these
> people are not involved.
> 
> > Its time for a new standard.
> 
> Only if we can get quality people to work on it. So who the fuck are
> you, Mr. Hotmail.com?
> </flame>
> 
> david rush
> (who has just watched _the matrix_ for the first time and is feeling
> pretty radicalized just at the moment)