From rcstadheim at scarabweb.com  Sat Jan 13 12:16:23 2001
From: rcstadheim at scarabweb.com (RCS)
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 18:16:23 +0100
Subject: Python 1.5.2/2.0  C extension type differences
Message-ID: <Fg086.1743$wt2.6000@news1.oke.nextra.no>

Have there been implemented some major changes in the way the extension API
works in Python 2.0 compared to Python 1.5?

I'm interested in developing C extension type Python objects, and as a
preliminary test I have tried to compile (for Python 2.0) the example given
in Mark Lutz's book "Programming Python" in chapter 14 (stacktyp.c),
and my compiler (Visual C++ 5) complains at the following:

static PyTypeObject Stacktype = {      /* main python type-descriptor */
  /* type header */                    /* shared by all instances */
      PyObject_HEAD_INIT(&PyType_Type)
      0,                               /* ob_size */
      "stack",                         /* tp_name */
      sizeof(stackobject),             /* tp_basicsize */
      0,                               /* tp_itemsize */

  /* standard methods */
      (destructor)  stack_dealloc,   /* tp_dealloc  ref-count==0  */
      (printfunc)   stack_print,     /* tp_print    "print x"     */
      (getattrfunc) stack_getattr,   /* tp_getattr  "x.attr"      */
      (setattrfunc) 0,               /* tp_setattr  "x.attr=v"    */
      (cmpfunc)     stack_compare,   /* tp_compare  "x > y"       */
      (reprfunc)    0,               /* tp_repr     `x`, print x  */

  /* type categories */
      0,                             /* tp_as_number
+,-,*,/,%,&,>>,pow...*/
      &stack_as_sequence,            /* tp_as_sequence +,[i],[i:j],len,
...*/
      0,                             /* tp_as_mapping  [key], len, ...*/

  /* more methods */
      (hashfunc)   0,                /* tp_hash    "dict[x]" */
      (binaryfunc) 0,                /* tp_call    "x()"     */
      (reprfunc)   0,                /* tp_str     "str(x)"  */

};  /* plus others: see Include/object.h */

where an error is reported at the  PyObject_HEAD_INIT(&PyType_Type) : error
C2099: initializer is not a constant,
and in addition a bunch of warnings for the rest of the entries.

Any comments/hints/help greatly appreciated!!!!

Regards,
Rolf C Stadheim
r-stadhe at online.no





From sdm7g at minsky.med.Virginia.EDU  Tue Jan 23 14:57:10 2001
From: sdm7g at minsky.med.Virginia.EDU (Steven D. Majewski)
Date: 23 Jan 2001 19:57:10 GMT
Subject: I mean *setup.py* ! ... (more questions)
References: <mailman.980277285.14781.python-list@python.org> <3d3dea3vuh.fsf@ute.cnri.reston.va.us>
Message-ID: <94knmm$2vi$1@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU>

Thanks. I'll give the patch a try. 
I already hacked past that error by creating a fake libm.a file. 

The problem with the case insensitivity of Mac's HFS+ filesystem
has resurfaced in 2.1a1: 
 
 If termios, fcntl, etc. are built as shared modules, then importing
 TERMIOS, FCNTL, ... will cause a crash due to multiply defined symbols.
 ( It's importing the same shared lib twice, rather than getting the 
  .py file for the upper case module names. ) 


I was handling this in Setup by building those modules as built-in,
rather than shared. 

I see in the new Modules/Setup: 

# The modules listed here can't be built as shared libraries for
# various reasons; therefore they are listed here instead of in the
# normal order.


If there are modules in this list, does setup.py detect that and not
try to build them shared also ? 


-- Steve M. 


In article <3d3dea3vuh.fsf at ute.cnri.reston.va.us>,
Andrew Kuchling  <akuchlin at mems-exchange.org> wrote:
>
>setup.py was written using 2.0's Modules/Setup.in as a guide to
>platform specific problems; it didn't mention MacOS X, of course.  Try
>the untested patch below; you'll need to fix whatever sys.platform is
>on MacOS X.  Please let me know what it is and let me know if it
>works.
>
>Right now the only way to fiddle with setup.py is to edit it, and
>submit patches back.  I'm planning to have some command-line switches
>in the next alpha.
>
>--amk
>


From aahz at panix.com  Thu Jan 11 05:07:09 2001
From: aahz at panix.com (Aahz Maruch)
Date: 11 Jan 2001 02:07:09 -0800
Subject: Reading Microsoft Outlook Express .dbx files
References: <mailman.979199831.22069.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <93k0kd$9rf$1@panix2.panix.com>

In article <mailman.979199831.22069.python-list at python.org>,
Tim Peters <tim.one at home.com> wrote:
>
>Have found that of only marginal use, and only then for plain-text msgs.
>Still the case that, to the best of my knowledge, while recent Outlooks deal
>with msgs in std Internet format fine, it's not possible to get them back in
>that format from Outlook (as the original questioner wanted).

IIRC correctly, it's not possible from Outlook, but it *is* possible
from Exchange Server.  If you set up Exchange as a POP3 server and move
the messages to a folder that you can access, any POP3 client can now
get the raw messages (*don't* ask me for the details, it's been two
years and a job ago).
-- 
                      --- Aahz (Copyright 2001 by aahz at pobox.com)

Androgynous poly kinky vanilla queer het    <*>     http://www.rahul.net/aahz/
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6

Sometimes, you're not just out of left field, you're coming in all the
way from outer space.  --Aahz


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Tue Jan 16 09:03:46 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 15:03:46 +0100
Subject: py_compile in windows
References: <93vviq$71b$1@flotsam.uits.indiana.edu>
Message-ID: <941kfd06vs@news1.newsguy.com>

"Brian Waskiewicz" <bwaskiew at indiana.edu> wrote in message
news:93vviq$71b$1 at flotsam.uits.indiana.edu...
> In Windows 98, how do I use py_compile.compile to make a .py file into a
> .pyc file?

Similarly to how you use it in other environments,
e.g., to compile all the files whose names are
passed as script arguments,

import py_compile, sys

for source_name in sys.argv[1:]:
    py_compile.compile(source_name)

you may write this into compileit.py and then
run it, for example:

D:\PySym>python compileit.py wri.py

a file wri.pyc will now appear in the current
directory (assuming wri.py was there & correct:-).


Alex





From lsloan00 at my-deja.com  Wed Jan 31 13:00:51 2001
From: lsloan00 at my-deja.com (Lance Sloan)
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 18:00:51 GMT
Subject: Perl-to-Python converter/translator?
Message-ID: <959jsd$njn$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

I'm an experienced Perl programmer who has just been assigned
a project that must be done in Python.  I'm looking for a
Perl-to-Python translator to help me out.  I don't expect to
write the whole project in Perl and translate it, though.  I'm
just looking for some automation to help me see how my old work
could be done in Python.

I didn't find anything useful via Google or Vaults of Parnassus
searches.  So, I would appreciate any pointers!

Thanks in advance.

--
Lance Sloan - lsloan00 at my-deja.com

--
Lance Sloan - lsloan00 at my-deja.com


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From huthut at my-deja.com  Sat Jan 13 19:41:25 2001
From: huthut at my-deja.com (huthut at my-deja.com)
Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 00:41:25 GMT
Subject: http authentication
Message-ID: <93qsjl$c6o$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

Please forgive my, probably, very naive question.
Im trying to hack togethe ra script that will download a number of
files off a internet site. The only problem is that this site is
password protected (in IE a box pops up for username and password). So
first i tried the urllib.FancyURLopener.open(url) which prompted me for
a username but then froze. Then i tried .open
('http://user:password at www.somewhere.com') but then i got:

File "c:\python20\lib\urllib.py", line 513, in __init__
    apply(URLopener.__init__, (self,) + args)
  File "c:\python20\lib\urllib.py", line 91, in __init__
    assert hasattr(proxies, 'has_key'), "proxies must be a mapping"
AssertionError: proxies must be a mapping

Does anyone have any suggestions?

Thanks in advance


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From db3l at fitlinxx.com  Fri Jan 26 14:00:11 2001
From: db3l at fitlinxx.com (David Bolen)
Date: 26 Jan 2001 14:00:11 -0500
Subject: Tkinter vs wxPython: your opinions?
References: <3A6F899F.E164F628@home.com> <hvZb6.2156$_8.33280@news1.rdc1.bc.home.com> <slrn9710o1.73.cerutti@fiad06.norwich.edu> <3A3AF7F970D390FB.9516A3492818FA7E.F86BC486C21F50E6@lp.airnews.net> <slrn972vmq.77.cerutti@fiad06.norwich.edu>
Message-ID: <uhf2mrves.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com>

cerutti at together.net (Neil Cerutti) writes:

> I forgot to mention the ID members of wxPython objects, which are
> unintuitive when it seems so simple to use actual objects in
> function calls instead. I can see how secret ID nos could
> save stack space and pointer passing in a C++ program.

Note that it's sort of up to you to choose - I almost never use the ID
numbers in my wxPython programs, but just save references to the
objects.  As in your listbox example, in most cases I just use -1 for
the id for new objects (although I think there's also an ID generation
function if you want to track the numbers).

I guess the one place I do use them is for menu items, but really only
when the item is created and the event attached to a callback method.

--
-- David
-- 
/-----------------------------------------------------------------------\
 \               David Bolen            \   E-mail: db3l at fitlinxx.com  /
  |             FitLinxx, Inc.            \  Phone: (203) 708-5192    |
 /  860 Canal Street, Stamford, CT  06902   \  Fax: (203) 316-5150     \
\-----------------------------------------------------------------------/


From julien.reynier at free.fr  Mon Jan 15 19:05:15 2001
From: julien.reynier at free.fr (Julien Reynier)
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 00:05:15 GMT
Subject: How to import JavaClass from JPython?
Message-ID: <3A638EE1.BDABAA65@free.fr>

Hi,

I know how to import core API classes from JPython using for example :
from java.lang import System
But I don't know how to import an specific class for example
MyClass.class that I had developped.
If I just do the same thing that with core API classes : from my.package
import MyClass, I obtain an error message.

Is anybody knows if a classpath or other environment variables have to
be set to specific values ?

thanks...

Julien Reynier


From moshez at zadka.site.co.il  Tue Jan 16 19:40:03 2001
From: moshez at zadka.site.co.il (Moshe Zadka)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 02:40:03 +0200 (IST)
Subject: [ANNOUNCE] FreeImage 2.0.0 out!
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0101161858200.20622-100000@fep132.fep.ru>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0101161858200.20622-100000@fep132.fep.ru>
Message-ID: <20010117004003.A7B57A82D@darjeeling.zadka.site.co.il>

On Tue, 16 Jan 2001 18:59:07 +0300 (MSK), Oleg Broytmann <phd at phd.pp.ru> wrote:

> > Curious.  
> > It compiles only with MSVC++6.0, yet works on Windows and Linux (??)
> 
>    It compiles on Linux, but not on *BSD? :))) Cannot believe it. :)

Simple: *BSD doesn't have MSVC++6.0
-- 
Moshe Zadka <sig at zadka.site.co.il>
This is a signature anti-virus. 
Please stop the spread of signature viruses!



From sheila at thinkspot.net  Sun Jan 14 23:24:46 2001
From: sheila at thinkspot.net (Sheila King)
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 04:24:46 GMT
Subject: Help with Python install
References: <rkp46t8atkoabsmu7v159sm32c0mslp40p@4ax.com> <93tsoe$bja9b$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <eru46tgqoa2rkndm7lhl4dm33ei1v4jvr7@4ax.com>

On Sun, 14 Jan 2001 20:02:00 -0800, "Emile van Sebille" <emile at fenx.com> wrote
in comp.lang.python in article <93tsoe$bja9b$1 at ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>:

:How about trying the full python2 path in .qmail preceeding
:your script file name:
:
:------------------------------------------------
:|/big/dom/xthinkspot/thinker/python/Python-2.0/python
:/big/dom/xthinkspot/mailtofile.py |vdeliver
:------------------------------------------------

Thanks for the suggestion. I had tried it before, but I tried it again, at
your suggestion.

Still doesn't work. :-(



--
Sheila King
http://www.thinkspot.net/sheila/
http://www.k12groups.org/


From carlbray at altavista.net  Mon Jan 29 13:35:47 2001
From: carlbray at altavista.net (Carl Bray)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 18:35:47 -0000
Subject: Wrapping up a C++ class
References: <954496$ues$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <980793638.864506@lave>

Take a look at SWIG http://www.swig.org/

<warrickb at my-deja.com> wrote in message news:954496$ues$1 at nnrp1.deja.com...
> Hi,
>
> Could anyone provide me with a simple example of wrapping a simple C++
> class for use in Python (I seem to be unable to find one - I must be
> missing something) - including the details of the creation and
> destruction of the actual C++ instance?  An extra example of dealing
> with virtual methods would also be a bonus!
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Warrick.
>
>
> Sent via Deja.com
> http://www.deja.com/




From rcameszREMOVETHIS at dds.removethistoo.nl  Wed Jan 10 21:37:36 2001
From: rcameszREMOVETHIS at dds.removethistoo.nl (Robert Amesz)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 02:37:36 GMT
Subject: Reading Microsoft Outlook Express .dbx files
References: <h7_66.8949$X3.91000@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <90262DD44rcamesz@127.0.0.1>

Steve Holden wrote:

>In my trek through the various mail packages the Windoze user may be
>confronted with I am currently battling with Outlook Express.  It's
>actually rather better than I feared.
>
>Its native folder format appears to be a ".dbx" file, about which I
>have no information.  Does any reader have experience with either
>reading these files, or automating OEx to provide them to a Python
>program in RFC822-style formats?
>
>Or, indeed, any other way of extracting mail items from the files
>created by OEx.


As it so happens, i've come across a program recently which can convert 
.dbx (OE5) to .mbx format.

Program:
   ftp://ftp.micropop.com/pub/oe2mbx/oe2mbx.exe

Sources:
   http://www.micropop.com/code/liboe-0.92.tar.gz

Read routines for .DBX files:
   http://www.micropop.com/code/oe2mbx-1.21.tar.gz

Mind you, this is GPLed stuff. There's also *some* information to be 
found on www.wotsit.org, but it's pretty sketchy. Oe2mbx.exe seems to 
work well, though I haven't really tested it extensively. So your 
mileage may vary.


HTH, Robert Amesz


From danielhill at brightok.net  Mon Jan 22 02:02:14 2001
From: danielhill at brightok.net (Dead Dan)
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 01:02:14 -0600
Subject: What does Python do
Message-ID: <94gmeu$4fc$1@sooner.brightok.net>

What kinds of programs can you make with Python. Does anyone have some
examples.

Dan




From cg at schlund.de  Fri Jan 26 04:05:44 2001
From: cg at schlund.de (Carsten Gaebler)
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 10:05:44 +0100
Subject: "print" strange with Sybase module
References: <3A70163A.10D995@schlund.de> <94q0f6$lu5$1@news.cybercity.dk>
Message-ID: <3A713DE8.592E8BDE@schlund.de>

"Erwin S. Andreasen" wrote:

> >./sqltest.py | tee /tmp/test.txt
> >
> >there is no output and test.txt is empty. What's going wrong? It's
> >Sybase module 0.10 with Python 2.0.
> 
> Does your Python interpreter exit before the very end with some fatal error?
> (do echo $? after you run the script without piping it to see the exit error
> code, is it 0?).

Everything's fine, return code is 0.

> I can't see a reason to why it would exit that way quietly, but unflushed
> buffers are the first thing that comes to mind when seeing those symptoms.

If I give Python the "-u" option the following happens:

[cg at cg test]$ ./sqltest.py | tee /tmp/test.txt
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "./sqltest.py", line 12, in ?
    print row
IOError: [Errno 32] Broken pipe


Broken pipe?? BTW it's the same with "|less", "|more", "|gzip" etc. I'm
confused.
cg.


From dickey at saltmine.radix.net  Fri Jan 19 06:29:47 2001
From: dickey at saltmine.radix.net (Thomas Dickey)
Date: 19 Jan 2001 11:29:47 GMT
Subject: Curses module for Python 2.0 for Windows NT
References: <mailman.979719258.23519.python-list@python.org> <3a65a767.3665680@news.laplaza.org>
Message-ID: <9498fb$3kq$3@news1.Radix.Net>

Mats Wichmann <xyzmats at laplaza.org> wrote:
> On Wed, 17 Jan 2001 09:23:42 +0100, jurgen.defurne at philips.com wrote:

> I haven't seen anything recently that indicates curses-on-Windows
> available cleanly.  There was a console application noted here not too
> long ago that might be usable; the GNU project page for curses
> indicates that a solid Windows port is still a whishlist item.
> Nonetheless, vim works very well on Windows so someone out there has
> presumably done the necessary work.

vim's not using curses.

-- 
Thomas E. Dickey <dickey at radix.net> <dickey at herndon4.his.com>
http://dickey.his.com
ftp://dickey.his.com


From andreas at andreas-jung.com  Mon Jan 15 11:48:13 2001
From: andreas at andreas-jung.com (Andreas Jung)
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 17:48:13 +0100
Subject: Accessing variables with rexec module ?
Message-ID: <20010115174813.A6027@yetix.sz-sb.de>

Inside a instance of rexec.RExec a code block introduces some local variables.
They are not visible using the locals()/globals() dictionaries. However I need
to check if a variable exists or not.  If it exists I need to get the value of
this variable.  This there a way to do this ?

Andreas




From arinagour at yahoo.co.uk  Sat Jan 13 08:52:30 2001
From: arinagour at yahoo.co.uk (chris lamb)
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 13:52:30 -0000
Subject: Michelle, this is great!
References: <3eb3a99ac6fe35ef407440cf78681fc8@dizum.com> <u9hf34ir14.fsf@wcl-l.bham.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <d4Z76.1435$ni.22881@NewsReader>

Maybe I am naive, but is this a spam or some attempt to make a security
point. All I got was a lot of html/text (I cannot stand html based email!)
which basically pointed to the page attached at the end?

What am I missing??

Please enlighten me!

Chris
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------
<html>
<head>
<title>Untitled Document</title>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
<meta http-equiv="refresh"
content="60;URL=http://www.bulkclicks.com/txt.php3?l=madmaxyou",'','scrollba
rs=yes'>

</head>

<body bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<p>&nbsp; </p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>
  <SCRIPT language=JavaScript>
var message=""; // Message for the alert box
// Don\'t edit below!
function click(e) {
if (document.all) {
if (event.button == 2) {
alert(message);
return false;
}
}
if (document.layers) {
if (e.which == 3) {
alert(message);
return false;
}
}
}
if (document.layers) {
document.captureEvents(Event.MOUSEDOWN);
}
document.onmousedown=click;
// -->
</SCRIPT>
</p><!-- Counter code version 1.0.  Do NOT alter this code!
http://counter.mycomputer.com -->
<SCRIPT language=JavaScript
src="http://counter.mycomputer.com/get_counter.html?u=madmaxyou&c=1">
</SCRIPT>
<NOSCRIPT> <a href="http://counter.mycomputer.com/"><img alt="Counter"
src="counter.gif" border=0 width="63" height="26"></a> </NOSCRIPT> <!-- End
of Counter Code -->
<p> <a href="http://www.bulkclicks.com/txt.php3?l=madmaxyou"
target="_blank">Find
  Everything!</a> <a
href="http://click.linksynergy.com/fs-bin/stat?id=b1em/08JU8Y&offerid=24136&
type=1&subid=0" >Comedy
  World, Inc.</a><IMG border=0 width=1 height=1
src="http://ad.linksynergy.com/fs-bin/show?id=b1em/08JU8Y&bids=24136&type=1&
subid=0" >
  <a
href="http://www.commission-junction.com/track/track.dll?AID=1201629&PID=626
939&URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Eamericas%2Donlinecasino%2Ecom%2Findex%2Easp%3Ffro
m%3D36" target="_top">
  <img
src="http://www.commission-junction.com/banners/tracker.exe?PID=626939&AID=1
201629&banner=1201629%2Egif" width="120" height="60" alt="" border="0"></a>
  <A
HREF="http://www.blackjackballroom.com/affiliate/referral.asp?aff_id=aff2198
"><IMG SRC="banner468_60_2.gif" width="468" height="60"></A>
  <a
href="http://click.linksynergy.com/fs-bin/stat?id=b1em/08JU8Y&offerid=12761.
10000003&type=4&subid=0"><IMG alt="Banner 10000003" border=0
src="http://216.34.209.9/Banners/1156325.GIF"></a><IMG border=0 width=1
height=1
src="http://ad.linksynergy.com/fs-bin/show?id=b1em/08JU8Y&bids=12761.1000000
3&type=4&subid=0">
  <!--BEGIN BE FREE TAG (c) COPYRIGHT 1997-2000 Be Free, Inc All right
reserved. -->
  <script language="JavaScript"
src="http://service.bfast.com/bfast/script?bfmid=29150500&siteid=36848575&bf
page=smholiday">
</script>

<!-- END BE FREE TAG -->
</body>
</html>




From vsbabu at erols.com  Thu Jan 11 06:49:59 2001
From: vsbabu at erols.com (Satheesh Babu)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 06:49:59 -0500
Subject: ActivePython2.0 - Server Side objects for ASP problem
References: <93j0qi$7cv$1@bob.news.rcn.net> <tK876.2719$24.38513@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <93k6k5$1g7$1@bob.news.rcn.net>

Hi Steve,

That worked! Thanks...

My actual requirement is not to gather HTML pages (I've one for that in 100%
python ASP
and by setting a BASE HREF, it works fine). I have this proprietary software
from a vendor
which runs a server on some port and it accepts some commands on that port.
My requirement
is to generate these commands on the fly, send it to this server and get
response, from many
ASP pages. I don't know how to do network programming in ASP/VBScript. In
Python I've
already written something which works, using socket library. My initial
thought was to embed
that Python code into my ASP scripts - won't work since ASP (atleast my
installation) doesn't
allow mixing of different languages. Making a COM object on the server is
also beyond me.
So, I got this idea and was just checking it out.

Many thanks again


--
v.s.babu
vsbabu at erols.com
http://vsbabu.csoft.net
"Steve Holden" <sholden at holdenweb.com> wrote in message
news:tK876.2719$24.38513 at e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com...
> "Satheesh Babu" <vsbabu at erols.com> wrote in message
> news:93j0qi$7cv$1 at bob.news.rcn.net...
> > Hi,
> >
> > I'm trying to use a server side python object to be called from a
VBScript
> > ASP code.
> > It works nicely for simple things. When I try to use urllib functions, I
> get
> > an error. Any
> > idea? The second function works nicely. I'm using Win98, PWS with
> Build202.
> > I'll try
> > on NT4.0 IIS tomorrow. Any help is greatly appreciated.
> >
> > ----------------- ASP file -----------------
> > <% @LANGUAGE="VBSCRIPT" %>
> > <!--#include file="pymod.asp"-->
> > <%= SlurpURL("http://vsbabu.csoft.net/") %>
> > <%= CapitalizeIt("the first letter should be capitalized") %>
> >
> > ----------------pymod.asp------------------
> > <script language='python' runat='server'>
> > from urllib import *
> > from string import *
>
> # Is this safe? from module import * is often not a good idea unless
> # the module has been designed with that in mind...
>
> >
> > def SlurpURL(i_url):
> >     f = urlopen(i_url)
>
> # Try changing preceding line to read f = urlopen(str(i_url))
>
> >     o_data = f.read()
> >     f.close()
> >     return o_data
> >
> > def CapitalizeIt(i_str)
> >     return capitalize(i_str)
>
> # Maybe this would need to be return capitalize(str(i_str)) as well
>
> >
> >
> > </script>
> > ------------------ error message -----------------
> > Python ActiveX Scripting Engine error '80020009'
> >
> > Traceback (innermost last): File "<Script Block >", line 4, in SlurpURL
f
> =
> > urlopen(i_url) File "c:\python20\lib\urllib.py", line 61, in urlopen
> return
> > _urlopener.open(url) File "c:\python20\lib\urllib.py", line 166, in open
> > return getattr(self, name)(url) File "c:\python20\lib\urllib.py", line
> 248,
> > in open_http host, selector = url ValueError: unpack sequence of wrong
> size
> >
> > ?
> >
> > host, selector = url
> >
> > ======================
>
> With the changes above I get *something* other than an error message in my
> browser window, but of course because you aren't re-interpreting the HTML
as
> you pass it through, all the links are broken and no graphics appear.
>
> You might want to consider adding a <BASE> tag to your page, quoting the
> original URL and therefore persuading your browser to interpret embedded
> URLs correctly.
>
> regards
>  Steve
>
>




From johann at physics.berkeley.edu  Fri Jan 19 16:06:50 2001
From: johann at physics.berkeley.edu (Johann Hibschman)
Date: 19 Jan 2001 13:06:50 -0800
Subject: Tabbing/Spaces
References: <B68E060D.901B%bobhicks@adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <mtzogn9rpx.fsf@astron.berkeley.edu>

Robert L Hicks writes:

> I am in the very basic stages of writing down what I want in an OSX specific
> Python IDE.

I'd like to see what you come up with, when you're done.  Sounds nice.

> While reading the reference manual it denotes that 8 spaces is that standard
> for indentation. However almost all the code (if not all) seems to use 4.
> What is the standard spacing on indentation?

Well, a "tab stop" is defined to be equal to 8 spaces.  However, on
most platforms (well, unix at least), unlike the Mac, a "tab stop" is
not the standard spacing for indentation.  A mixture of tabs and
spaces is most common, I'm afraid, since that's what emacs defaults to
doing.

My preference, which I think is fairly common, is that if you're
starting from scratch, use spaces in 4-space blocks for indentation
and no tabs at all.

-- 
Johann Hibschman                           johann at physics.berkeley.edu


From mikeb at mitre.org  Tue Jan 23 15:02:35 2001
From: mikeb at mitre.org (Mike Brenner)
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 15:02:35 -0500
Subject: markov applied to music?
Message-ID: <3A6DE35B.5B0B63E7@mitre.org>

> Plan A. ... generate more complex game music based on a static score: i.e. ... apply the Markov chains to the ... score. ...

> Plan B. ... take a score with a gradually changing mood and use a sliding window to determine what portion of the score is used, thus allowing a "mood" parameter to control the output.  Whenever the mood changes, the markov chain generator would have to  re-analyze the new window and start generating output. ... I presume the Markov algorithm would take care of the transition problem, so that it doesn't just sound like random clips all hashed together. Would it be feasible to use the markov.py module to do this sort of thing?


The Markov algorithm alone would not take care of the transition problem
because it requires consciousness over more than just the previous few
notes. The mood is a function of the emotion (i.e., helpful vs. hurtful
of our goals, approved vs. tabu of our values, immediately satisfying
vs. requiring patience of our valuable time, true vs. illusionary,
pleasant vs. yucky of our sensibilities,  creative loving vs. boring
usualness, service to the planet vs. satisfaction of compulsive
addictions, and will vs. fate). These would require several parameters
over a period of time in order to recognize, or in order to generate.

Part of the problem is the inherent blurring between nouns and verbs at
the Markov Chain level, because of the duality of the nodes and the
edges. It is like a reversed parse (esrap) where a probabilistic context
free grammar GENERATES sentences instead of taking in a sentence and
matches it to a grammar. The same happens with the moods of the music.

To implement this in Python requires several steps: an emotional
repository, an method of discovery of the mood of the current game
segment, a method of composing two moods, a method of transitioning from
one mood to another, a reverse mapping from the emotional repository to
each game-world context, hyperlinks between each of the game parameters
into the emotional repository and the into the context encyclopoedia, a
fast method of looking all of this up (like a semantic web), clustering
tools to bring together those contexts which have similar emotions,
personoid simulators that apply the contexts to various personality
types (warrior, thief, mage, maiden, errand boy, or whatever), etc.

The exponential nature of the interactions is reduced considerably by
the fact that most of the emotions humans feel is of the first (greedy)
type: either you are helping along my path or you are holding me back,
and the second most is the good-evil: do I approve or am I disgusted by
your behavior. This takes care of at least 80 percent of the emotional
space of mortal human beings.

I believe that mere Markov chains are just one of the many tools needed
to generate the proper emotional responses to the game contexts.

Mike Brenner




From grante at visi.com  Fri Jan 26 17:09:54 2001
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 22:09:54 GMT
Subject: PSU uses emacs?
References: <zoka6.19675$Mo6.204420@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com> <94cktu$d9c$1@news.wrc.xerox.com> <%KYa6.1423$eI2.487638@ruti.visi.com> <mailman.980546199.11562.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <SAmc6.790$27.204822@ruti.visi.com>

In article <mailman.980546199.11562.python-list at python.org>, J?rgen A. Erhard wrote:

>    >>> [...] Who designed DOS anyway, Gary Kildall wasn't it?
>
>    >> That was CP/M, the 16-bit version of which was considered by
>    >> IBM for their PC but not chosen.  MS-DOS was first licensed and
>    >> then purchased by Microsoft from Seattle Computer Products.  It
>    >> was written by Tim Paterson; heavy CP/M influence is evident,
>    >> but it was far from a clone.  See Paul Ceruzzi, /A History of
>    >> Modern Computing/.
>
>    Grant> Looked like a clone to me.  Virtually identical FCB
>    Grant> structure, BIOS entry point at 0x0005, same executable
>    Grant> layout, etc. etc.
>
>What I recall from the time is that (I heard then) there was a tool
>(from Intel?) that could convert 8080 assembly code to 8086/88
>assembly code.

I remember reading about that translator in Intel literature
when the 8086 was introduced.  I never met anybody who used it.

>So with a virtually identical OS (in the important things as you,
>Grant, mentioned), application vendors could *very* easily port their
>CP/M software to QDOS (recall that *then*, and especially on CP/M,
>virtually all software was still being written in assembly).

I'm not sure how many apps were "mechanically" ported from CP/M
to DOS.  I vaguely recall reading that they usually ended up
being rewritten by hand.  As a result of Intel's desire to be
backwards compatible with the 8080, we've been saddled with the
brain-dead 8086 architecture ever since.

>PS: Does this all mean that I'm *OLD*?  ;-)

Yup -- at least in the computer world.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  I didn't order
                                  at               any WOO-WOO... Maybe a
                               visi.com            YUBBA... But no WOO-WOO!


From dkuhlman at rexx.com  Mon Jan 29 20:01:06 2001
From: dkuhlman at rexx.com (Dave Kuhlman)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 01:01:06 -0000
Subject: Wrapping up a C++ class
References: <954496$ues$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <980793638.864506@lave>
Message-ID: <980816467.758919@rexx.com>

Also, you might look at SIP.  It was used to produce PyQt, so there
should be plenty of examples there.  It's available at:

    http://www.thekompany.com/

Also, the distribution of Zope comes with something called
Extension Classes.  I believe you can find it at:

    http://www.digicool.com/releases


  - Dave

Carl Bray <carlbray at altavista.net> wrote:
> 
> Take a look at SWIG http://www.swig.org/
> 
> <warrickb at my-deja.com> wrote in message news:954496$ues$1 at nnrp1.deja.com...
>> Hi,
>>
>> Could anyone provide me with a simple example of wrapping a simple C++
>> class for use in Python (I seem to be unable to find one - I must be
>> missing something) - including the details of the creation and
>> destruction of the actual C++ instance?  An extra example of dealing
>> with virtual methods would also be a bonus!
>>
>> Thanks in advance,
>>
>> Warrick.
>>
>>
>> Sent via Deja.com
>> http://www.deja.com/
> 
> 

-- 
Dave Kuhlman
dkuhlman at rexx.com


From tdelaney at avaya.com  Mon Jan 29 19:14:40 2001
From: tdelaney at avaya.com (Delaney, Timothy)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 11:14:40 +1100
Subject: function parameter
Message-ID: <B43D149A9AB2D411971300B0D03D7E8B0FBE3A@natasha.auslabs.avaya.com>

Python does neither call by reference nor call by value.

What python really does is pass reference by value. i.e. a reference to an
object is passed, and you can then modify the object that the reference is
referring to (if it is mutable), but you cannot modify what the reference is
referring to and have it propagate out of the namespace.

See the following examples:

>>> def f1 (p):
...     p = 2
...
>>> def f2 (p):
...     p[0] = 2
...
>>> a = (1,)
>>> b = [1]
>>>
>>> f1(a)
>>> a
(1,)
>>> f1(b)
>>> b
[1]
>>> f2(a)
Traceback (innermost last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
  File "<stdin>", line 2, in f2
TypeError: object doesn't support item assignment
>>> f2(b)
>>> b
[2]
>>>

Tim Delaney
Avaya Australia
+61 2 9352 9079

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Hwanjo Yu [mailto:hwanjoyu at uiuc.edu]
> Sent: Tuesday, 30 January 2001 10:41 AM
> To: python-list at python.org
> Subject: Q: function parameter
> 
> 
> Hi,
> It seems that the python's function parameters are passed 
> call-by-value as a
> default.
> How to make it call-by-reference, so it allows the parameters 
> to be changed
> after calling a function ?
> Thanks in advance.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 



From egmanoj at yahoo.com  Tue Jan 16 03:48:26 2001
From: egmanoj at yahoo.com (egmanoj at yahoo.com)
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 08:48:26 -0000
Subject: Where to find the 'dbi' and 'odbc' modules?
Message-ID: <9411sq+a27q@eGroups.com>

Hi all,
I am a python newbie. I recently downloaded Python(2) for WinNT at my 
office and was fiddling with database access. Although the Python 
documentation mentions the dbi and odbc modules, they are not 
available with the Python 2 distribution. Can anyone tell me where 
these are available for download?

Thanks,
Manoj E.G.




From runyaga at thisbox.com  Thu Jan  4 10:02:28 2001
From: runyaga at thisbox.com (alan runyan)
Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 15:02:28 GMT
Subject: CGIHTTPServer.py
References: <7F5BC4310EDD615A.1D87832E39807480.8066D4EF5FF33D4C@lp.airnews.net> <mailman.978597967.11321.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <8g056.3303$fO.103541@typhoon.austin.rr.com>

> > I'm playing around CGIHTTPServer.py and have some problems that I can
seem
> > to fix.  any help would be greatly appreciated.
> >
> > in the Library Reference it shows its availability as Unix only, why not
> > Windows?  it seems to work just fine on Windows.
>
> It uses fork() which AFAIK is not available on Windows.

the if self.have_fork has a an else (for win32)
line 216:
elif self.have_popen2:
            # Windows -- use popen2 to create a subprocess

it seems like it doesnt work on unix (which its suppose to), but it works on
win32 (besides the server closing connection prematurely at the end of
RESPONSE)

~runyaga





From syver at NOSPAMcyberwatcher.com  Fri Jan  5 10:57:06 2001
From: syver at NOSPAMcyberwatcher.com (Syver Enstad)
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 16:57:06 +0100
Subject: embedding python in C++
Message-ID: <934r1a$pda$1@troll.powertech.no>

I am total newbie to embedding Python in C++ (except with COM). What's the
most straightforward way of executing a python file from C++ and grabbing
the output in a string?




From richard_chamberlainREMOVE at ntlworld.com  Sun Jan 14 02:56:57 2001
From: richard_chamberlainREMOVE at ntlworld.com (Richard Chamberlain)
Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 07:56:57 -0000
Subject: IDLE and from module import foo
References: <3a60d820.23710243@news.laplaza.org>
Message-ID: <0Uc86.94$ye3.1130@news2-win.server.ntlworld.com>

Are you sure it works via the command line? Try it again I expect you'll see
that it doesn't.

You could try:

import module
reload(module)
from module import x,y,z

Richard

Mats Wichmann <xyzmats at laplaza.org> wrote in message
news:3a60d820.23710243 at news.laplaza.org...
> Seems like in IDLE, if you do "from module import x, y, z" you can't
> reload those.... having run across it in the most painful place
> possible,  of course (in class).   Just tried it out side-by-side: if
> you edit the file and reload (per the Python Reference this needs to
> be done by repeating the import statement since there's no module name
> to give to reload()...) it doesn't pick up the new versions. In the
> "command-line" version, it does.  (Windows NT/2000 platforms, in this
> case). The IDLE behavior seems shared by Pythonwin, which I just tried
> (don't use it much at the moment).
>
> Anybody have any advice or suggestions?
>




From quinn at lek.ugcs.caltech.edu  Mon Jan  8 14:24:44 2001
From: quinn at lek.ugcs.caltech.edu (Quinn Dunkan)
Date: 8 Jan 2001 19:24:44 GMT
Subject: Arrow Keys in the Interpreter Interface
References: <93cqku$prk$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <slrn95k4vs.cbi.quinn@lek.ugcs.caltech.edu>

On Mon, 08 Jan 2001 16:42:09 GMT, eandroid at my-deja.com <eandroid at my-deja.com>
wrote:
>I use zsh as my shell instead of bash and as a result my arrow keys do
>not properly work in the interpretter, printing ^[[A instead of
>scrolling back though my history. Has anyone seen this? If I change my
>default shell to bash and relogin it starts working. I think that this
>may be related to scripts that the shell runs on login but Python is the
>only program that seems affected.

I run zsh too, but I don't think your problem has anything to do with zsh.  If
the readline is not compiled, then you will get no line editing or history.
If readline is compiled, you will get those things, but you'll have to
configure readline via ~/.inputrc.  Mine has a 'set editing-mode vi' so arrow
keys don't do history (^[k does).  I think readline defaults to emacs mode,
and I think emacs mode uses arrows for history, so if you don't have a
~/.inputrc but do have a readline module, I dunno.


From phd at phd.pp.ru  Thu Jan  4 11:31:30 2001
From: phd at phd.pp.ru (Oleg Broytmann)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 19:31:30 +0300 (MSK)
Subject: embedded python - cancel "while 1: pass"
In-Reply-To: <Eo156.83$Oe.897@tor-nn1.netcom.ca>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0101041930190.6935-100000@fep132.fep.ru>

On Thu, 4 Jan 2001, Warren Postma wrote:
> How about uninterruptible C code called via python, such as this:
>
> print 2L ** 2L ** 256
>
> I've let this run for 15 minutes and it didn't complete. There is no
> apparent way to abort it either, as it spends its time in long_mult and the
> Python scheduler doesn't even run. It must complete eventually. Any idea how
> long long_mult and long_pow will take to complete this?
>
> In that case, I think I'm still stuck with the Three Finger Salute method
> (reboot).

   Wow, it seems you are a Windows guy! Why not just kill the process
instead of rebooting everything?

Oleg.
----
     Oleg Broytmann            http://phd.pp.ru/            phd at phd.pp.ru
           Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN.




From grante at visi.com  Thu Jan 18 13:59:41 2001
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 18:59:41 GMT
Subject: Python & GUI?
References: <3A674896.C7E52247@crepido.com>
Message-ID: <x2H96.501$eI2.164026@ruti.visi.com>

In article <3A674896.C7E52247 at crepido.com>, Marco Seiri? wrote:

>Are there any GUI components or ways to build a GUI in Python
>that contains all the widgets that one would expect to find in
>a VB or Java environment.

Yes.  There are probably a half dozen different GUI packages
available: Tk, GTK, WxWindows, Qt, Win32, etc.

>Can you (easily) build things like explorer like applications
>and such...

Yes.  There is a web browser named Grail written in Python (I
don't think it's being maintained).  There is a nice drawing
program called Sketch.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  "DARK SHADOWS"
                                  at               is on!! Hey, I think
                               visi.com            the VAMPIRE forgot his
                                                   UMBRELLA!!


From erno-news at erno.iki.fi  Sat Jan  6 23:04:11 2001
From: erno-news at erno.iki.fi (Erno Kuusela)
Date: 07 Jan 2001 06:04:11 +0200
Subject: Problems with py-indent-region in XEmacs
References: <93655e$rds$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <ku4rzcknyc.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>

In article <93655e$rds$1 at nnrp1.deja.com>, redhouse at my-deja.com writes:

| How can I get XEmacs to change this:
| def foo():
|     a=5
| b=6
| c=7

| into

| def foo():
|     a=5
|     b=6
|     c=7

| py-indent-region just leaves it the way it is.

pu-indent-region can't do that, since it is just for "fixing" the
indentation and in the above, it's already perfectly sensibly
indented.

you can mark the region, and hit C-c > to add one level of
indentation.

  -- erno


From root at rainerdeyke.com  Tue Jan  9 17:21:13 2001
From: root at rainerdeyke.com (Rainer Deyke)
Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2001 22:21:13 GMT
Subject: A single, general looping construct? (was: why no "do : until"?)
References: <93euo1$drh$1@okapi.ict.pwr.wroc.pl> <HxL66.2499$24.24441@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <t9M66.17243$ge4.8090449@news2.rdc2.tx.home.com>

"Steve Holden" <sholden at holdenweb.com> wrote in message
news:HxL66.2499$24.24441 at e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com...
> Also, in both your original example and my extension, the final "while"
> statement has a condition which isn't really a Boolean. You appear to mean
> "as long as a particular exception has not been raised", but exceptions
> don't really work like that. You would end up having to clear a flag
before
> the loop, and set it when the exception occurs:
>
> flag = 0
> try:
>   filename = raw_input('Data file: ')
>   f = open(filename, 'r')
>   # Process the file
> except IOError:
>   print "Could not open file", filename
>   flag = 1
> while not flag
>
> which does not seem to be a real improvement over
>
> flag = 0
> while not flag:
>   try:
>     filename = raw_input('Data file: ')
>     f = open(filename, 'r')
>     # Process the file
>   except IOError:
>     print "Could not open file", filename
>     flag = 1

Even better:

try:
  while 1:
    filename = raw_input('Data file: ')
    f = open(filename, 'r')
    # Process the file
except IOError:
  print "Could not open file", filename


--
Rainer Deyke (root at rainerdeyke.com)
Shareware computer games           -           http://rainerdeyke.com
"In ihren Reihen zu stehen heisst unter Feinden zu kaempfen" - Abigor




From sholden at holdenweb.com  Mon Jan 15 19:37:20 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 19:37:20 -0500
Subject: No meta-type in Python?
References: <93q4og$ppg$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <slrn961s15.buo.scarblac@pino.selwerd.nl>
Message-ID: <%MM86.2248$Q06.48412@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com>

"Remco Gerlich" <scarblac at pino.selwerd.nl> wrote

> Ellipsis isn't a type. Ellipsis is, well, Ellipsis :)
> 
Shouldn't that have been "Ellipsis is ... well ... Ellipsis"?

regards
 Steve




From pbjorn at uswest.net  Thu Jan  4 21:38:40 2001
From: pbjorn at uswest.net (Bjorn Pettersen)
Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 19:38:40 -0700
Subject: why no "do : until"?
References: <92jj3j$ff7$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <slrn94shbe.150.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <X8s36.2731$Qb7.305339@newsb.telia.net> <slrn94smds.150.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <FOt36.17$vd1.2224@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com> <slrn94t1vj.150.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <3A4E95FD.D6C737A7@engcorp.com> <slrn94tqkh.150.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <tpr46.7782$4c.597534@ruti.visi.com> <slrn954h6p.rgv.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <3A52AD6A.62D043A2@engcorp.com> <3A534367.36B1FD18@uswest.net> <slrn957j19.go.amk@207-172-36-81.s81.tnt6.ann.va.dialup.rcn.com> <3A53F4B1.6227D241@uswest.net> <931gf302dsi@news2.newsguy.com> <3A54B6BA.F4550C96@uswest.net> <932r3e010bd@news1.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <3A5533B0.95B14A8E@uswest.net>

Alex Martelli wrote:

> Bjorn Pettersen" <pbjorn at uswest.net> wrote in message
> news:3A54B6BA.F4550C96 at uswest.net...
>
> > probably argue for special syntax for the Pythonic "for i in
> > range(len(sequence))"... (perhaps "for i in 1..10" or perhaps a special
> form of
> > list comprehensions "for i in [1..10 by 2]" <wink>)
>
> Surely, if a special syntax existed for what's now written as "range(1,10)",
> it would be absurd to restrict it to being used in for loops -- why add
> rules
> (complication) to _diminish_ expressiveness?  I know that a PEP on such
> a proposal was reently rejected, but I don't know why.

It was rejected because it used slice notation, but had slightly differing
semantics. I think there is still a desire to come up with simpler syntax for
iteration over a sequence index...

-- bjorn



From gustafl at algonet.se  Mon Jan 22 03:44:40 2001
From: gustafl at algonet.se (Gustaf Liljegren)
Date: 22 Jan 2001 08:44:40 GMT
Subject: Modifying .htpasswd from Python?
References: <90312091gustaflalgonetse@194.213.69.148> <3A6BCCEC.EA8CE857@stroeder.com>
Message-ID: <90316137Fgustaflalgonetse@194.213.69.148>

michael at stroeder.com (Michael Str?der) wrote: 

>Gustaf Liljegren wrote:
>> 
>> This can be done easily in Perl, using the crypt() function. Now I
>> need a Python function doing exactly the same encryption as the
>> htpasswd command. 
>
>See module crypt.

I saw it, but couldn't import it, and by the docs it seems to be only 
decrypting.

Python 1.5.1 (#1, Jan  7 1999, 12:00:35) [C] on sunos5
Copyright 1991-1995 Stichting Mathematisch Centrum, Amsterdam
>>> import crypt
Traceback (innermost last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
ImportError: No module named crypt
>>>



From mwh21 at cam.ac.uk  Thu Jan 18 19:43:07 2001
From: mwh21 at cam.ac.uk (Michael Hudson)
Date: 19 Jan 2001 00:43:07 +0000
Subject: Why no isexec, isread, iswrite, etc (was: I must be missing something obvious: os.path.isexecutable?)
References: <slrn96enju.g1v.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <slrn96ep7c.g1v.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <slrn96erlf.h11.grey@teleute.rpglink.com>
Message-ID: <m31yu02wys.fsf@atrus.jesus.cam.ac.uk>

grey at despair.rpglink.com (Steve Lamb) writes:

> On Thu, 18 Jan 2001 21:49:32 -0000, Steve Lamb <grey at despair.rpglink.com>
> wrote:
> >    OK, after further digging on deja I found a thread between Fredrik Lundh
> >and Lenny Self regarding using the os.stat() call with the stat macros.  Is
> >there an easier way?
> 
>     OK, pardon the stream of thought thread here, but I have found my answer
> to the Python equivalent of the Perl -x check.  Now for a fun question.  I see
> that os.path has isdir, isfile, islink defined.  In fact my initial confusion
> is that os.path didn't have isread, iswrite, isexec.  It seemed logical.
> 
>     then I foudn the above mentioned conversation with the macros from stat
> coming into play.  So I dug into os.path.py, bounced into posixpath.py, and
> see that isdir, isfile and islink use the stat macros.  So why not complete
> the suite of tests possible from the stat macros and have read/write/exec
> tests in there as well?

http://www.python.org/patches

(sounds like a good idea to me, though I'd never use them, so I'm not
going to write the patch).

Cheers,
M.

-- 
  I never realized it before, but having looked that over I'm certain
  I'd rather have my eyes burned out by zombies with flaming dung
  sticks than work on a conscientious Unicode regex engine.
                                             -- Tim Peters, 3 Dec 1998


From gradha at iname.com  Sun Jan  7 05:09:17 2001
From: gradha at iname.com (gradha at iname.com)
Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2001 11:09:17 +0100
Subject: How do I print useful errors with getopt?
Message-ID: <d8f939.roa.ln@127.0.0.1>

Hi.

Coming from the C world, I got a try at the python getopt module. It works
nicely, but there are is something I miss: when the user supplies a wrong
switch combination, I miss getopt reporting the specific error. I can of
course catch getopt.error, but how can I print to the user what triggered
the error? Under C it was as easy as not touching opterr: the system would
then print the conflict in the appropiate localized text.

I am running Debian Potato with Python 1.5.2, if it's of any use to you.

-- 

 Grzegorz Adam Hankiewicz   gradha at iname.com - http://gradha.infierno.org
 Other web pages:  http://glub.ehu.es/  -  http://welcome.to/gogosoftware/


From sandipan at vsnl.com  Fri Jan 12 12:12:38 2001
From: sandipan at vsnl.com (Sandipan Gangopadhyay)
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 22:42:38 +0530
Subject: How robust is Python ?
Message-ID: <002301c07cba$ddef9080$020000c3@node02>

"Steve Holden" <sholden at holdenweb.com> wrote in message
news:D%F76.7503$6i.96299 at e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com...
> "Sandipan Gangopadhyay" <sandipan at vsnl.com> wrote in message
> news:mailman.979313781.1111.python-list at python.org...
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Moshe Zadka" <moshez at zadka.site.co.il>
> > To: <rturpin at my-deja.com>
> > Cc: <python-list at python.org>
> > Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2001 4:09 PM
> > Subject: Re: How robust is Python ?
> >
> > > On Fri, 05 Jan 2001, rturpin at my-deja.com wrote:
> > >
> > > > Unfortunately, cron is not cross-platform. We'll have
> > > > some sort of mechanism to do this. The problem is not
> > > > just the language and operating system, but everything
> > > > that can kill a process. Still .. you want such mechanism
> > > > as backup, not as a solution to regular crashes.
> > >
> > > Of course. None of this is meant to imply Python crashes regularily.
> > > In fact, I can't think off-hand of a language less likely to suffer
> > > crashes, given that you take a few exception-catching precautions
> > > in the main loop (have a catch-all except: which re-execs the
process).
> >
> > I want this in my code, but came across a problem -
> >
> > while binAliveMarker:
> >   if binIWannaStartAgain:
> >     time.sleep(1)
> >     continue
> >   work code ...
> >
> > If I try a catch-all except, continue hits except on the outer level
> rather
> > than while. Probably the reason that it results in syntax error.
> >
> > while binAliveMarker:
> >   try:
> >     if binWannaStartAgainLater:
> >       time.sleep(1)
> >       continue
> >     work code ...
> >   except:
> >     pass
> >
> > Any suggestions to make it work with continue (or an alternative) ?
Apart
> > from removing continue completely by making the work code inside an else
?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Sandipan
> >
> The documentation states that the continue syntax error is due to
"laziness"
> on the part of the implementors, though they seem to keep pretty busy to
me.
> You can work around this with:
>
> class Continue:
>     pass
>
> while binAliveMarker:
>   try:
>     if binWannaStartAgainLater:
>       time.sleep(1)
>       raise Continue
>     work code ...
>   except Continue:
>     continue
>

Have I done something illogical here ?
Changes in order to have non-selective except.

class ContinueThroughExcept:
    pass

while binAliveMarker:
  try:
    if binWannaStartAgainLater:
      time.sleep(1)
      raise ContinueThroughExcept
    work code ...
  except ContinueThroughExcept:
    continue
  except:
    pass

> You could maybe leave the "pass" you had in the except rather than
changing
> it to continue, but it's never a good idea to include non-selective except
> clauses: they catch KeyboardInterrupt, among other nasties you probably
> really want to see.

I agree. In my case however, that is a boon. There wont be anyone there to
see the nasties and might add some of their own. Ie, I dont want
KeyboardInterrupt to interrupt the process anyway. I want that loop up
anyhow until binAliveMarker goes down.

>
> [Just passing along a wrinkle somebody else taught me...]

Thanks a lot.

>
> regards
>  Steve
>
>
> --
> http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>




From aleksei.guzev at bigfoot.com  Fri Jan 26 04:00:25 2001
From: aleksei.guzev at bigfoot.com (Aleksei Guzev)
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 14:00:25 +0500
Subject: defining class
Message-ID: <LPENKAFBJDPOFHMCEBOMIEFJCDAA.aleksei.guzev@bigfoot.com>

I'm sure I don't understand something since I can't find an article
on creating a class object from a C or C++ module.



From cfelling at iae.nl  Mon Jan 22 19:05:22 2001
From: cfelling at iae.nl (Carel Fellinger)
Date: 23 Jan 2001 01:05:22 +0100
Subject: Count and replacing strings a texfile
References: <94i9ft$apq$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <94ihs2$8e3$1@animus.fel.iae.nl>

puckoh at my-deja.com wrote:
> Hello.

> This is a probably basic question.
> I have a textfile about 120k large, and there is several strings in it
> which I must replace.
> The strings are named "%id%" and the number of strings are unknown.

Do I understand you correctly, are all to be replaced strings equal?

> First, I need to count them all.

no need to count them then

> Then I must replace every one of them with a incrementing number.
> Like the first %id% is replaced with 1, the second with 2 etc.

Well that just seems to easy, lets complicate it.

$ cat request.py
#!/usr/bin/python
##untested code made while I should be sleeping

import re

class Subs:

    def __init__(self):
        self.id = {}

    def __call__(self, matched):
        s = matched.group()[1:-1]
        self.id[s] = self.id.get(s, 0) + 1
        return "(%s=%d)" % (s, self.id[s])

r = re.compile('%.*?%')

data = open("spam").read()

data = r.sub(Subs(), data)

open("numbered-spam", "w").write(data)


$ cat spam
%spam%, %spam%, %spam% and %eggs%
%spam%, %spam%, %spam%, %bacon% and %eggs%

$ cat numbered-spam
(spam=1), (spam=2), (spam=3) and (eggs=1)
(spam=4), (spam=5), (spam=6), (bacon=1) and (eggs=2)
-- 
groetjes, carel


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Thu Jan 25 05:39:17 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 11:39:17 +0100
Subject: Migrate Python prototype to C++: regex?
References: <94oti8$95v$1@newsreaderm1.core.theplanet.net>
Message-ID: <94ovok01uep@news2.newsguy.com>

"Franz GEIGER" <fgeiger at datec.at> wrote in message
news:94oti8$95v$1 at newsreaderm1.core.theplanet.net...
>
> This is probably off-topic but I guess Pythoneers have a better
> understanding of this question than C++ programmers only programming C++.
>
> I do a lot of prototyping with Python. A lot of those prototype have to be
> implemented in C++ (MSVC/MFC). STL gives (rather good) support of what
> Pythin already has built-in. But I strongly miss regex. How do you proceed
> in the case of regex in Python? Can anyone recommend a regex package for
> C++? Is there anything like that? Or do you write regexp an other way
round
> somehow?

The Boost libraries (www.boost.org) work very well with the Standard C++
Libraries (and even STL, the research-oriented prototype, if you want),
and include a Regular Expression Library *as well as* a wonderful Python
integration libraries.  They're open-source, free for download, peer
reviewed, and of very high quality in my modest experience.  They also
explicitly support MS VC++ 6 as well as other more-standard compilers.


Alex





From vonehr at ira.uka.de  Thu Jan  4 07:31:27 2001
From: vonehr at ira.uka.de (Markus von Ehr)
Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 13:31:27 +0100
Subject: win32com, COM, MediaPlayer
Message-ID: <3A546D1F.12D9FB46@ira.uka.de>

The Play command still gives me the error:

File "c:\Programme\Python\win32com\client\dynamic.py", line 207, in 
 _ApplyTypes_
 result = apply(self._oleobj_.invokeTypes, (dispid, LCID, wFlags,
retType, argTypes) + args)
pywintypes.com_error: (-21468283, 'CTL_E_ILLEGALFUNCTIONCALL', (0, None,
None, None, 0, -2146828283), None)

Anybody knows why?

Thanks,

Markus


*****************************************************************

My Code looks like this:

# Test dynamic policy

import time
import win32com
import pythoncom
import win32com.client

w=win32com.client.Dispatch("MediaPlayer.MediaPlayer.1")


w.AutoStart=1
w.Open("c:\Programme\Python\ex1.wav")

w.Play()

while 1:
    time.sleep(1)


From jasonic at nomadicsltd.com  Thu Jan 18 14:12:44 2001
From: jasonic at nomadicsltd.com (Jason Cunliffe)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 14:12:44 -0500
Subject: Python training on east coast?
References: <B68C6B99.8E47%bobhicks@adelphia.net> <3a6711b0.2563646@news.laplaza.org>
Message-ID: <t6efqlt9jvj929@corp.supernews.com>

Mats Wichmann <xyzmats at laplaza.org> wrote in message
news:3a6711b0.2563646 at news.laplaza.org...
> On Thu, 18 Jan 2001 14:45:43 GMT, Robert L Hicks
> <bobhicks at adelphia.net> wrote:
>
> >Are there any Python training courses on the east coast?
>
>
> See http://www.learningtree.com/us/ilt/courses/430.htm
>
> Classes are regularly scheduled in Washington D.C., New York and
> Boston.


Thanks.
Good to know about.. but way alas too expensive for me now - I don't have a
company to foot the bill :-(

http://www.learningtree.com/us/ilt/courses/430day.htm
<learning tree quote>
 Attend this 4 day course for as little as:
 $937    with a 8-Course Passport
 $1249    with a 4-Course Passport
 $1945    with a Voucher 10-Pack
 $2202    with a GSA Government Employee Program
 $2110    with an Alumni Gold Discount
 $2345    Standard Tuition
</learning tree quote>

Now if only I could find a willing tutor on comp.lang.python and a few
people here in New York City to spread costs, perhaps we could work out some
interesting alternative.. Then video and edit the proceedings to make it
worth __everyone's__ time+cost+effort
..anyone??

- Jason
___________________________________________________________
Jason CUNLIFFE = NOMADICS['Interactive Art and Technology']




From hamish_lawson at yahoo.co.uk  Tue Jan 16 13:15:01 2001
From: hamish_lawson at yahoo.co.uk (Hamish Lawson)
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 18:15:01 GMT
Subject: Python equivalent of 'use strict'
References: <3A6483CD.CB2424E0@raqia.com>
Message-ID: <94232r$297$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

David Lees wrote:

> Is there an equivalent to the perl 'use strict'? [My perl/C++ guru
> friend] is concerned with accidentally initializing values of
> mistyped variables. I showed him how you get an error doing an
> operation with an uninitialized variable ... but he is looking for
> this 'use strict' stuff.

Python effectively has "use strict" on all the time and all assignments
effectively use "my". This in Python

    x = 3
    z = 2
    x = z + 5
    z = y

is equivalent to this in Perl:

    use strict;
    my $x = 3;
    my $z = 2;
    my $x = $z + 5;
    my $z = $y;

Both will complain about the uninitialised y.

But "use strict" couldn't stop you from saying

    my $foo = 2;
    my $fooo = $foo + 1;

where you meant to say

    my $foo = 2;
    my $foo = $foo + 1;

(though I concede that using 'my' on both assignments is not quite
idiomatic Perl). Similarly, Python won't stop you saying:

    foo = 2
    fooo = foo + 1

where you meant

    foo = 2
    foo = foo + 1

Hamish Lawson


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From hancock at earthlink.net  Wed Jan 17 16:03:40 2001
From: hancock at earthlink.net (Terry Hancock)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 13:03:40 -0800
Subject: [Summary] Re: Are there Tkinter examples somewhere?
References: <20010117170123.9C2D6EF2D@mail.python.org>
Message-ID: <3A6608AC.A728D5EF@earthlink.net>

Thank you all for the replies.  In summary, I was
directed to the following links for example code
and other help regarding using Tkinter:

Unix Source Distribution (which the Debian "python-tk"
package does not contain, as of Debian 2.2, BTW):
http://www.fsck.org/doc/python/examples/Demo/tkinter/

The source code example from John Grayson's
book "Python and Tkinter Programming":
http://www.manning.com/Grayson/Source.html

And the book itself was highly recommended (not by
the author :) ):
"Python and Tkinter Programming"
ISBN 1884777813
http://www.manning.com/Grayson/index.html
(Summary page for book).

And of course, I already knew about the resources
listed on the Python Language webpage:
http://www.python.org/topics/tkinter/doc.html
(and links therein)

Thanks!
-- 
Terry Hancock
hancock at earthlink.net



From aahz at panix.com  Sat Jan 27 11:40:11 2001
From: aahz at panix.com (Aahz Maruch)
Date: 27 Jan 2001 08:40:11 -0800
Subject: How are threads implemented in Python?
References: <OKCc6.46$wI1.8606@news1.rdc1.mb.home.com>
Message-ID: <94utlb$nco$1@panix3.panix.com>

In article <OKCc6.46$wI1.8606 at news1.rdc1.mb.home.com>,
Parzival Herzog <parz at home.com> wrote:
>
>Are threads implemented as OS threads, thereby multi-threading the
>interpreter code, or does the Python interpreter itself maintain a list
>of Python treads and switch between them?
>
>If the interpreter runs in multiple OS threads, then it must acquire
>an release a mutex lock very frequently, so that the run-time data
>structures are operated on in atomic way. Such a lock would a) be
>locked very nearly all of the time any Python thread is active, so
>that the multiple interpreter threads would in fact be operating one
>at a time with frequent opertunities to switch.  In addition, whenever
>code in external libraries manipulates Python objects a mutex must be
>acquired and released.

Standard Python threads use OS-level threads, and the Global Interpreter
Lock is indeed an issue.  Note that external libraries can release the
GIL when not dealing with Python objects, and most of the I/O calls in
Python are already coded that way (thereby providing a heavy performance
boost for threaded I/O).

There's also an add-on patch that allows Python-level threads called
micro-threads.  It's part of a larger patch for continuations.
-- 
                      --- Aahz (Copyright 2001 by aahz at pobox.com)

Androgynous poly kinky vanilla queer het    <*>     http://www.rahul.net/aahz/
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6

"I heard Commentary and Dissent had merged and formed Dysentary."


From fredrik at effbot.org  Sun Jan 28 09:11:06 2001
From: fredrik at effbot.org (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 14:11:06 GMT
Subject: "print" strange with Sybase module
References: <3A70163A.10D995@schlund.de> <94q0f6$lu5$1@news.cybercity.dk> <vHOc6.27482$DB1.273597@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com> <9518u5$1rk0$1@news.cybercity.dk>
Message-ID: <_LVc6.9609$Qb7.1426225@newsb.telia.net>

Erwin S. Andreasen wrote:
> AFAICS, there is no way to turn the buffering to be line-based on an existing
> file object (it might be an idea for a future release?). You could do
> something like:
>
> sys.stdout = os.fdopen(os.dup(sys.stdout.fileno()), 'w', 1)
>
> which would reopen standard output as a line-buffered (the 1) stream,
> i.e. every time you have written a full line to the file object, it's flushed
> -- just like when you run the program on the console.

here's a variant, which works for any kind of sys.stdout:

    class UnbufferedStream:
        def __init__(self, stream):
            self.stream = stream
        def write(self, data):
            self.stream.write(data)
            self.stream.flush()
        def __getattr__(self, attr):
            # delegate everything else
            return getattr(self.stream, attr)

    sys.stdout = UnbufferedStream(sys.stdout)

Cheers /F

<!-- (the eff-bot guide to) the standard python library:
http://www.pythonware.com/people/fredrik/librarybook.htm
-->




From donn at u.washington.edu  Thu Jan  4 13:51:47 2001
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: 4 Jan 2001 18:51:47 GMT
Subject: why no "do : until"?
References: <92jj3j$ff7$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <slrn94shbe.150.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <X8s36.2731$Qb7.305339@newsb.telia.net> <slrn94smds.150.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <FOt36.17$vd1.2224@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com> <slrn94t1vj.150.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <3A4E95FD.D6C737A7@engcorp.com> <slrn94tqkh.150.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <tpr46.7782$4c.597534@ruti.visi.com> <slrn954h6p.rgv.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <3A52AD6A.62D043A2@engcorp.com> <3A534367.36B1FD18@uswest.net> <slrn957j19.go.amk@207-172-36-81.s81.tnt6.ann.va.dialup.rcn.com> <3A53F4B1.6227D241@uswest.net> <931gf302dsi@news2.newsguy.com> <932d0k$ita$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <932go3$q4s$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>

Quoth Donn Cave <donn at u.washington.edu>:
... [ re productive things to occupy ourselves with ]
| Come up with a network server class system that doesn't put its sockets
| into unbuffered stdio, at the cost of 1 byte unbuffered reads.
...

An alert reader pointed out that this has already been done for 2.0.
Um, time machine?  Sorry!  Good work, keep it up!

	Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu


From moshez at zadka.site.co.il  Sun Jan 14 21:46:42 2001
From: moshez at zadka.site.co.il (Moshe Zadka)
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 04:46:42 +0200 (IST)
Subject: how do i disable buffered output, like Perl's '$|=1'?
In-Reply-To: <979494993.24992.0.pluto.d4ee691b@news.demon.nl>
References: <979494993.24992.0.pluto.d4ee691b@news.demon.nl>, <979490967.23219.0.pluto.d4ee691b@news.demon.nl> <93so5m$biirv$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <20010115024642.C71FAA828@darjeeling.zadka.site.co.il>

On Sun, 14 Jan 2001 19:05:58 +0100, "floR" <flor_pino at hotmail.com> wrote:
> Not exactly what I meant, I think.
> Okay, what I want to do in particular, is to send 'print' commands to the
> browser in intervals, without buffering, something like the following:
> 
> print 'Content-type: text/html\n\n'
> countdown = 10
> while countdown:
>     print countdown
>     countdown = countdown - 1
>     sleep(1)
> 
> so that the countdown seems to happen in your browser, instead of waiting
> for 10 seconds for the string '10 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1' to appear.

Other then the suggestion I made, note that the server may be buffering
output of CGI scripts itself. Generally, you don't do these type of things
in CGI. (Browsers may buffer themselves, too, something you have no
control about)
See: http://www.unixinsider.com/swol-02-2000/swol-02-regex.html
for correct ways to do it.
-- 
Moshe Zadka <sig at zadka.site.co.il>
This is a signature anti-virus. 
Please stop the spread of signature viruses!



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Mon Jan 22 12:23:32 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 18:23:32 +0100
Subject: Python & GUI?
References: <3A674896.C7E52247@crepido.com> <947j3i01h9k@news2.newsguy.com> <3a6c2f9c.2770560@news.btx.dtag.de>
Message-ID: <94hqfb0bep@news1.newsguy.com>

"Stefan Franke" <spamfranke at bigfoot.de> wrote in message
news:3a6c2f9c.2770560 at news.btx.dtag.de...
> On Thu, 18 Jan 2001 21:15:56 +0100, "Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com>
wrote:
> [...]
> >my personal favorite, however, is Dynamic
> >Html -- used in a cross-platform way, it has some limitations,
> >but, targeting one specific and powerful browser (such as IE),
> >it's awesome,
>
> I've no idea what's possible on this route, could you point me
> to some examples (for IE)?

One example of one technique (HTA, aka "HTML Application") is
discussed at:
http://x64.deja.com/[ST_rn=ps]/getdoc.xp?AN=714593265

It's a toy example of course.  What you can do with
Active/X controls embedded in HTML pages is basically
without bounds; what you can do with Dynamic HTML itself,
CSS, etc, etc, is a huge lot.  Python can control all
of this in several ways (HTA perhaps simplest for IE).


Alex





From tblin at my-deja.com  Tue Jan  2 18:01:20 2001
From: tblin at my-deja.com (TB)
Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2001 23:01:20 GMT
Subject: HELP! win32com, COM, Invoke problem
References: <92rv3q$asi$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <3A51EDBF.3000808@ActiveState.com>
Message-ID: <92tmjr$oj1$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

Mark, thanks for your quick reply.

I did notice that if you I take out the parens, this statement will
work, but when it bombs at the next statement:

bo = form.CreateBO("Clarify.CBO.Generic")
the error message is
>>> Clarify.CBO.App.1.__LazyMap__(CreateSession) added something
Calling GetIDsOfNames for property Login in Dispatch container
CreateSession
Attribute Login not in cache
Getting property Id 0x3 from OLE object
Calling GetIDsOfNames for property CreateFormContext in Dispatch
container CreateSession
Attribute CreateFormContext not in cache
Getting property Id 0x5 from OLE object
OLE returned  <PyIDispatch at 0x12bbf54 with obj at 0x25e0990>
>>> Unhandled exception while debugging...
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "c:\python20\win32com\client\dynamic.py", line 377, in
__getattr__
    return new.instancemethod(self._builtMethods_[attr], self,
self.__class__)
KeyError: CreateBO
>>> Calling GetIDsOfNames for property CreateBO in Dispatch container
<unknown>
>>> Unhandled exception while debugging...
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "c:\python20\win32com\client\dynamic.py", line 413, in
__getattr__
    ret = self._mapCachedItems_[retEntry.dispid]
KeyError: 4
>>> Attribute CreateBO not in cache
>>> Getting property Id 0x4 from OLE object
>>> Unhandled exception while debugging...
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "c:\python20\win32com\client\dynamic.py", line 423, in
__getattr__
    ret = self._oleobj_.Invoke
(retEntry.dispid,0,pythoncom.DISPATCH_PROPERTYGET,1)
com_error: (-2147352567, 'Exception occurred.',
(0, 'Form.CreateBO', 'Invalid class string\015\012', None, 0, -
2146827287), None)
[Dbg]>>>

the exception is thrown at the same Invoke line in dynamic.py. This
time CreateBO requires one parameter, but when it's called with Invoke
(...DISPATCH_PROPERTYGET,1), it didn't thrown an exception of
BADCONTEXT, but it threw a 'Invalid class string', is it a bug in the
control I'm using?

As for Makepy, I tried before but it didn't help. Let me make it more
clearly. The Clarify.CBO.App.1 sits in a DLL called BOCLIENT.DLL, but
all other stuff, session, FormContext etc sits in another DLL called
AXCOMMON.OCX. After I ran makepy on both files, I saw 2 py files
created, but when I step through the program I found it only used the
1st py file, not the 2nd one, which contains FormContext and etc. I
don't know COM so I can't explain why. Could you explain a little bit?

I wonder how VB or JScript got this to work, and how can I mimic the
same behavior in Python. Also, I'd like to volunteer sometime to study
and contribute if neccessary.

Thanks again and happy new year.

--TB

In article <3A51EDBF.3000808 at ActiveState.com>,
  Mark Hammond <MarkH at ActiveState.com> wrote:
> TB wrote:
>
> >   File "F:\tb\cbo\test1.py", line 13, in ?
> >     form = sess.CreateFormContext()
> >   File "f:\python20\win32com\client\dynamic.py", line 150, in
__call__
> >     return self._get_good_object_(apply
> >
(self._oleobj_.Invoke,allArgs),self._olerepr_.defaultDispatchName,None)
> > com_error: (-2147352573, 'Member not found.', None, None)
> >
> > I used to debugger to dig into the dynamic.py, at line #422
> > try:
> >  ret =
> >
self._oleobj_.InvokeretEntry.dispid,0,pythoncom.DISPATCH_PROPERTYGET,1)
> >  except pythoncom.com_error, details:
> > .....
> >
> > it doesn't throw an exception even CreateFormContext is a method,
and
> > the invoked is called with DISPATCH_PROPERTYGET. Is it supposed to
> > throw an exception when a method is called with PROPERTYGET?
>
> It is quite common for some COM objects to allow certain methods to
be
> accessed as either a method or property.  This is mainly for VB,
where
> you can't (could not) use parens with a sub.
>
> So, that happens with
>
> sess.CreateFormContext()
>
> is that the "CreateFormContent" is making the method call when simply
> referenced as a property.  This causes Python to try and execute the
> _result_ of the function - probably calling the default method on the
> FormContext object.
>
> Note that the traceback above has:
>
>  > File "f:\python20\win32com\client\dynamic.py", line 150, in
__call__
>  > return self._get_good_object_(apply
>
> This is what leads me to believe you can simply drop the parens.
Note
> that if you run "makepy" over this TLB, it will work correctly.
>
> Mark.
>
> >
> > what OLEVIEW says about Session
> > [
> >   uuid(E8000132-8693-11D0-B8B1-080009B6AB17)
> > ]
> > dispinterface Session {
> >     properties:
> >         [id(0xfffffffc)
> > ]
> >         IUnknown* _NewEnum;
> >         [id(0x00000001), helpstring("SessionID")
> > ]
> >         BSTR SessionId;
> >         [id(0x00000002), helpstring("Set this property to True when
> > using JScript")
> > ]
> >         VARIANT_BOOL JScript;
> >     methods:
> >         [id(0x00000003), helpstring("Log into Clarify system")]
> >         void Login(
> >                         BSTR pLoginName,
> >                         BSTR pPassword,
> >                         [optional] VARIANT LoginType,
> >                         [optional] VARIANT AssocDefault);
> >         [id(0x00000004), helpstring("Log out")]
> >         void Logout();
> >         [id(0x00000005), helpstring("Creates a Clarify Form Context
> > object")]
> >         FormContext* CreateFormContext();
> >         [id(0x00000006), helpstring("Builds a session cookie
string")]
> > .......
> >
> >
> > --TB
> >
> >
> > Sent via Deja.com
> > http://www.deja.com/
>
>

--
--TB


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From mwh21 at cam.ac.uk  Fri Jan 26 08:20:14 2001
From: mwh21 at cam.ac.uk (Michael Hudson)
Date: 26 Jan 2001 13:20:14 +0000
Subject: Why isn't crypt.py in Win32 Python distribution?
References: <mailman.980437353.20380.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m3puhaxxf5.fsf@atrus.jesus.cam.ac.uk>

"Rolander, Dan" <Dan.Rolander at marriott.com> writes:

> Just curious. Why isn't crypt.py included in the standard python
> distribution for Windows? I needed the crypt() function and finally found
> fcrypt.py which was very helpful, but it seems it should be standard in
> Windows just like in the Unix distribution.

Try:

http://www.vex.net/parnassus/apyllo.py?i=54474698

(I haven't, apart from checking the link works).

Cheers,
M.

-- 
  > Why are we talking about bricks and concrete in a lisp newsgroup?
  After long experiment it was found preferable to talking about why
  Lisp is slower than C++...
                        -- Duane Rettig & Tim Bradshaw, comp.lang.lisp


From paulus132 at my-deja.com  Mon Jan 29 08:56:15 2001
From: paulus132 at my-deja.com (paulus132 at my-deja.com)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 13:56:15 GMT
Subject: how to store great array?
Message-ID: <953sps$nta$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

For 2 mio Documents, I have a "Year" field (4 characters) associated
with each of them. I try to store this in Python, to report him over
other records.

It is possible ? Wich is the faster method ?

The easiest way is a dictionnary { doc_num : year } but how estimate the
necessary memory ? With old Basic's, the FREE(0) Builtin returns the
number of free memory. Is there comparable module/class/function to
survey memory use in Python ?

Another way is to construct a list doc_years = ["1934", "1942", "1897",
....], and access it with doc_years[doc_num]. Is doc_years[2000000] as
fast as doc_years[456] ?

Another way is to construct an unique string with all years
concatenated, and access it with all_years[4*doc_num:4*doc_num+4]. But I
think that 7.6 Mo length is too big ! How long can be a string ?

Thanks in advance!

Paul Perrin


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From pearu at ioc.ee  Sun Jan 28 17:30:43 2001
From: pearu at ioc.ee (Pearu Peterson)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 00:30:43 +0200
Subject: Hack request: rational numbers
In-Reply-To: <2W%c6.128157$ge4.46108705@news2.rdc2.tx.home.com>
References: <951h34$tch$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, <Pine.LNX.4.21.0101251759070.28148-100000@kev.ioc.ee> <mailman.980702855.389.python-list@python.org> <2W%c6.128157$ge4.46108705@news2.rdc2.tx.home.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0101290004580.9588-100000@kev.ioc.ee>


On Sun, 28 Jan 2001, Rainer Deyke wrote:

> "Moshe Zadka" <moshez at zadka.site.co.il> wrote in message
> news:mailman.980702855.389.python-list at python.org...
> >
> > "j" is very common to denote the square root of -1 in engineering since
> > "i" denotes current.

What is "current" in Python or in any other general purpose programming
language? 
A: nonsense, I guess :-)

Note that even Matlab, that is widely used among engineers, uses "i" for
imaginary unit by default ("j" is an alias to "i").

> Why not add native quaternion support to Python?  Quaternions are complex
> numbers where the imaginary part is a vector in three dimensions, defined in
> terms of unit vectors i, j, and k.  

That would be great, I think. Maybe in Py3K?

Though I suspect that there are still more engineers than
mathematicians/physists among Python users which makes the change 
1,1j -> 1,1i,1j,1k very difficult, right?

Pearu



From rindolf2 at yahoo.comNOSPAM  Tue Jan  2 13:59:02 2001
From: rindolf2 at yahoo.comNOSPAM (Rindolf)
Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2001 18:59:02 GMT
Subject: GIF Image Size
Message-ID: <Wxp46.24381$F_3.940941@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>

Is there any way to find out the dimensions of a GIF image using python? I
looked in the language reference and it didn't look like there was.

Rindolf




From erno-news at erno.iki.fi  Fri Jan 26 14:25:22 2001
From: erno-news at erno.iki.fi (Erno Kuusela)
Date: 26 Jan 2001 21:25:22 +0200
Subject: Python vs Ruby
References: <94mdkd$222e$1@news.adamastor.ac.za> <p6qwvbjtr97.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de> <94pvd8$3g$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <p6qu26mtesx.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de> <mailman.980533713.29159.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <kug0i65d5p.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>

In article <mailman.980533713.29159.python-list at python.org>, D-Man
<dsh8290 at rit.edu> writes:

| The new "gc" module doens't even do real gc.  It simply checks
| for circular references in a similar manner that mark-and-sweep
| collectors use.

what is real gc?

  -- erno


From sholden at holdenweb.com  Tue Jan 16 00:56:34 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 00:56:34 -0500
Subject: Problem with a tuple - newbie ignorance
References: <3A633531.9010303@yale.edu> <3A635C32.9E5285C5@yale.edu> <i1k76t8g9dr5fft0v0phcr98hb6qkdjbaq@4ax.com> <mailman.979623448.23926.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <gsR86.4856$Q06.17680@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com>

"Neil Schemenauer" <nas at arctrix.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.979623448.23926.python-list at python.org...
> On Tue, Jan 16, 2001 at 12:00:48AM -0500, Alan Daniels wrote:
> > 3) If you find yourself doing the double-backslash a lot (thanks,
> > Microsoft!), rather than typing...
> > > dir = os.listdir('D:\\statlab\\ssda\\data')
> > ...you can write this as...
> >
> >   dir = os.listdir(r'D:\statlab\ssda\data')
>
> How about:
>
>     dir = os.listdir('D:/statlab/ssda/data')
>
> I'm pretty sure that works too but I'm running Linux now and
> can't test it.
>
>   Neil
>
It does.

regards
 Steve




From grante at visi.com  Sun Jan 14 16:40:05 2001
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 21:40:05 GMT
Subject: BOOTP and TFTP servers in Python?
References: <slrn9622r4.62n.grante@isis.visi.com> <3A61BFCC.8B2BB3F4@connecttel.com>
Message-ID: <slrn96475l.d30.grante@isis.visi.com>

In article <3A61BFCC.8B2BB3F4 at connecttel.com>, Rosimildo da Silva wrote:

>> Is it possible to write a BOOTP server in Python using the standard socket
>> libs?  Since TFTP is a normal UDP based protocol, I know a TFTP server is
>> possible: does one exist already?
>
>Somebody posted this a couple of weeks back....:

Thanks!  I thought I remembered something like that.  Not sure why I didn't
find it with a Deja search.  Operator error, I'm sure.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  Now that we're
                                  at               in LOVE, you can BUY
                               visi.com            this GOLDFISH for a 48%
                                                   DISCOUNT.


From rjroy at takingcontrol.com  Tue Jan  2 14:10:35 2001
From: rjroy at takingcontrol.com (Robert Roy)
Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2001 19:10:35 GMT
Subject: Add decodestring to module quopri ?
References: <901D79D7DYouAreNotMeYouKnow@205.252.144.34>
Message-ID: <3a5227bb.263843515@news1.on.sympatico.ca>

On 2 Jan 2001 03:10:40 GMT, ungrzr2 at ubatxbat.pbz ({-- Rot13 - Hateme)
wrote:

>currently quopri only have 
>
>decode(input, output)
>encode(input, output)
>
>which take file objects as arguements. Please add
>decodestring(string) and encodestring(string) for
>encoding/decoding string buffers. module base64
>already has this methods.

or you could use a StringIO object ...

Bob


From joseamartin at venmex.com  Wed Jan 17 16:09:10 2001
From: joseamartin at venmex.com (Jose Martin)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 17:09:10 -0400
Subject: DCOracle + Python Question 
Message-ID: <t6c35ih83dl7de@corp.supernews.com>

 try:
           dbc=DCOracle.Connect(connectstring)
 except: pass


if an error occurs , i dont want to show the message in the screen.
how can hide the error message.





      _    _
     @  @
         'J
        ~^




From sandipan at vsnl.com  Tue Jan 16 14:22:11 2001
From: sandipan at vsnl.com (Sandipan Gangopadhyay)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 00:52:11 +0530
Subject: how can I get the current url
Message-ID: <00c501c07ff1$a0da97a0$020000c3@node02>

Which webserver are you using ?

Apache, eg, allows virtualhosts. Multiple domains. Depending on the
domain-name, index.html pages from different areas are served.

Sandipan
----- Original Message -----
From: <rschlack at my-deja.com>
Newsgroups: comp.lang.python
To: <python-list at python.org>
Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2001 10:38 PM
Subject: how can I get the current url


> Please help.  I have 4 domains pointing to the
> same IP.  I want my index.html page to determine
> the current domain so that I can change the
> headers and footers accordingly.
>
> I am new to python and have no idea how to do
> this.  I am trying to change the headers and
> footers on our Ultraseek software.
>
> thanks,
> Rob
>
>
> Sent via Deja.com
> http://www.deja.com/
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>




From jflores at codeit.com  Tue Jan 23 13:39:32 2001
From: jflores at codeit.com (Julio F. Schwarzbeck)
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 10:39:32 -0800
Subject: password input in rsync
References: <94kef8$4j6$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <3A6DCFE4.2EF6117C@codeit.com>

run ssh-agent $SHELL and ssh-add /home/you/.ssh/yourkey

the second one will ask for a pwd and will place it in memory, use popen
to accomplish that, then you just ssh without supplying a pwd.

Julio

Ben Park wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I am trying to automate the process of getting files using rsync. Here
> is what I do:
>
> myPass = '1234'
> temp1 = "rsync -avz -e 'ssh -l benpark' guppy:temp1 ."
> out1,in1,err1 = popen2.popen3(temp1)
> in1.write(myPass)
>
> But it does not work. rsync does not take password input from the
> standard in.
>
> Any suggestion? Thanks in advance.
>
> Sent via Deja.com
> http://www.deja.com/
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list




From kirschh at lionbioscience.com  Wed Jan 17 03:29:00 2001
From: kirschh at lionbioscience.com (Harald Kirsch)
Date: 17 Jan 2001 09:29:00 +0100
Subject: How to close all files between fork and exec?
Message-ID: <yv27l3upooj.fsf@lionsp093.lion-ag.de>

Python has fork/exec. I want to use it. After fork and before exec I
would like the child process to close all files other than 0, 1 and 2
(i.e. standard input/output/error). 

On some systems there is a constant like OPEN_MAX but I read that on
recent Solaris versions there is no real limit to it.
How do I get hold of the highest numbered open file descriptor, in
particular in python?

  Harald Kirsch

-- 
----------------+------------------------------------------------------
Harald Kirsch   | kirschh at lionbioscience.com | "How old is the epsilon?"
LION Bioscience | +49 6221 4038 172          |        -- Paul Erd?s
       *** Please do not send me copies of your posts. ***


From SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk  Fri Jan 19 08:31:54 2001
From: SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk (Simon Brunning)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 13:31:54 -0000
Subject: How to get method's arguments
Message-ID: <31575A892FF6D1118F5800600846864D5B173B@intrepid>

> From:	Victor Black [SMTP:muk_pr at yahoo.com]
> 
> 1.How does IDLE show the argument list of a method or procedure.
> e.g when you write "dir(" a hint writing "dir([object]) -> list of
> strings"
> pops up.
 
It shows the first line of the docstring. Try print dir.__doc__ to see the
whole docstring.
 
> (The sources are available but overwhelming)
> 2.Are there any other open source IDEs for python ?
 
On Windows, there is the rather wonderful PythonWin - see
<http://www.activestate.com/Products/ActivePython/win32all.html>.

Cheers,
Simon Brunning
TriSystems Ltd.
sbrunning at trisystems.co.uk




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From richard_d_papworth at my-deja.com  Thu Jan 11 10:17:42 2001
From: richard_d_papworth at my-deja.com (richard_d_papworth at my-deja.com)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 15:17:42 GMT
Subject: Ingres II and Python
Message-ID: <93kiqb$5k4$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

Does anyone have experience of accessing an Ingres II database using python ?
I haven't been able to find any references to ingres on the python site. Any
pointers in the right direction would be appreciated.

Richard


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From tim.one at home.com  Sat Jan 13 22:05:12 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 22:05:12 -0500
Subject: The range of integer in Python???
In-Reply-To: <MPG.14cb7efde6c4f9eb989680@news.ntu.edu.tw>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCMEHMIIAA.tim.one@home.com>

[cnc]
> What is the range of integer numerical type in Python?

There are two integer types in Python.  "longs" are unbounded, and grow as
large as needed until you run out of memory.  "ints" are exactly the same as
the "signed long" type under the C used to compile Python.  That's 32 bits
on most platforms these days, but 64 bits is less rare by the decade <wink>.

> I read some introduction book of Python, they say it ranges
> from (-maxint, maxint).  However, I guess, it should be
> (-maxint-1, maxint).

maxint is an attribute of Python's sys module, so change that to

    from and including -sys.maxint-1,
    up to and including sys.maxint

and that's the range of Python's bounded integers on all platforms today.

>>> import sys
>>> sys.maxint
2147483647
>>> sys.maxint+1
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
OverflowError: integer addition
>>> -sys.maxint-1
-2147483648
>>> -sys.maxint-2
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
OverflowError: integer subtraction
>>>




From fredrik at effbot.org  Wed Jan 31 09:49:06 2001
From: fredrik at effbot.org (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 14:49:06 GMT
Subject: Help in understanding some code!
References: <mailman.980950657.27534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <CBVd6.10367$Qb7.1549125@newsb.telia.net>

"Wayne" wrote:
> The code that is at the end of this program reads as follows:
>
> # magic to keep a root window from appearing
> L = Label()
> L.tk.call('wm','withdraw', '.')
> del L

that's just a backwards way of saying

    root = Tk()
    root.withdraw()

(tk.call is an internal mechanism used to pass a
command to the Tcl interpreter)

> win = WindowFrame(Toplevel())
> win.wait_window(win)

this pops up a toplevel window (I assume window
frame adds content to it's constructor argument),
and waits for it to disappear again.

Cheers /F




From loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de  Tue Jan 23 16:31:08 2001
From: loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de (Martin von Loewis)
Date: 23 Jan 2001 22:31:08 +0100
Subject: XML doc generation
References: <mailman.980213426.3545.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <p6qzogit0pv.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Jonathan Pennington <john at coastalgeology.org> writes:

> You can also construct a DOM tree yourself, and convert it to XML;
> this is often a more flexible way of producing XML output than simply
> writing <tag1>...</tag1> to a file. 
> <snip>
> Unfortunately, I can't find an example of this.
> 
> Does anyone have some code(script?) I can read that does this so I can
> learn?

Although I agree with Paul's comments in general, I'd still point out
how to construct a tree properly.

In the DOM, there is an object called the implementation, of type
DOMImplementation. In PyXML, 4DOM offers its implementation as
xml.dom.implementation. minidom, as of Python 2.0, does not provide an
implementation; 2.1 will.

An implementation allows you to create a document, via
.createDocument. (In minidom, just creating a minidom.Document
instance will suffice).

Once you have a document, you use its createElement, createAttribute
etc. operations to create, well, elements, attributes, etc. Then you
use the appendChild method of the node to put the elements into place.

To serialize, different implementations provide different API; minidom
offers a .to_xml() method.

To see an example, look at demo/dom/generate_html1.py, or
test/test_minidom.py.

Regards,
Martin



From bozonm at users.vscht.cz  Tue Jan 30 12:45:31 2001
From: bozonm at users.vscht.cz (Michal Bozon)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 18:45:31 +0100
Subject: How to extend sys.path on Win9x permanently?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.980871576.1471.python-list@python.org>
References: <3a75ef9c.11194652@news.muenster.de> <mailman.980871576.1471.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSO.4.10.10101301840310.10473-100000@users.vscht.cz>

Windows version of python stores sys.path in registry (run `regedit' to
modify).
It is I think HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE/Software/Python.....  I don't know
exactly. There is I think a key `path' ant it contains subkeys `Lib', `Tk'
... with paths (strings).
I just added anotker key (I named it `my' and stored my own path as a
default value)

Michal Bozon
Faculty of Chemical Technology, Prague (student)
bozonm at vscht.cz
On Tue, 30 Jan 2001, D-Man wrote:

> On Mon, Jan 29, 2001 at 10:54:55PM +0000, Martin Bless wrote:
> [snip]
> | [... and besides, this new WinMe on one machine  dismisses all changes
> | I make to autoexec.bat und reverts  to the previous version the next
> | time I reboot. How can I change this behaviour?]
> 
> AFAIK WinME purposefully ignores autoexec.bat.  IMHO WinME is a horrid
> breakage of Win2k just to put a box with a smaller price tag on the
> self.  I read an article in PC Magazine that described the "features"
> of WinME.  Amongst them are:  media player doesn't work,  some virus
> scanners don't work, can't configure the system with autoexec.bat, and
> a bunch of other things too.  I read an article several years ago that
> Win98 and NT4.0 were to be the last of the windows series before MS
> combined them into one product and only have one line of windows from
> now on.  I heard that WinME was created because there were people who
> wanted to upgrade from Win98 but didn't want to pay the high price of
> Win2k.
> 
> I don't think this helps much, but maybe you will find the information
> interesting.
> 
> | 
> | thanks a lot
> | Martin Bless
> | -- 
> 
> -D
> 
> 
> 
> 



From donn at u.washington.edu  Mon Jan 22 17:19:29 2001
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: 22 Jan 2001 22:19:29 GMT
Subject: How do I know all thrown exceptions of a function?
References: <g3lb49.73s.ln@127.0.0.1> <94d93h$55d$1@troll.powertech.no>  <mailman.980059223.25947.python-list@python.org>  <Qeya6.7932$AH6.1260668@newsc.telia.net> <mailman.980189306.19220.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <94iblh$klo$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>

Quoth Randall Hopper <aa8vb at yahoo.com>:
| Fredrik Lundh:
|| Sean Reifschneider wrote:
||> Yeah, I suppose so.  I don't think you should *HAVE* to review the code of
||> the libraries you call, AND *EVERYTHING* that *THEY* call.  It's not an
||> effective use of my time...
||
|| yeah, and what's worse, having to *TEST* your code before
|| shipping just sucks...
|
| Like Steve, I think this is a bit too harsh.  What exceptions a public API
| can throw is part of its interface, just like parameters and return values.
|
| In Python's present form which is light on strict definitions, this is
| arguably not a big issue.  But in the future when typing is added to
| interfaces, exceptions need to be included in that signature.  

What about exceptions raised by dependent APIs?  I mean, suppose for
example that the exceptions raised by the file object, or the sys
module, changes in Python 2.1;  your API is now liable to raise a
new exception thanks to those changes.  Are you supposed to account
for that as part of your API?  In the same release, or later when
you find out about it?

I agree that an interface does include exceptions, but it isn't so
clear how much can reasonably be specified.  Exceptions generated
in the immediate vicinity is one thing;  "all thrown exceptions of
a function" is another.

| Groveling through library code for rare exception conditions (initially,
| and for each dependency version update) isn't a productive use of a
| developer's time.

Certainly not, and to me exception handling feels like the most
unfinished part of Python.  Unfortunately I don't have any real
ideas about it, I just find exception handling relatively error
prone when it should be the opposite.

	Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu


From fgeiger at datec.at  Sat Jan 13 03:49:39 2001
From: fgeiger at datec.at (Franz GEIGER)
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 09:49:39 +0100
Subject: A small suggestion for Python
References: <3A5F27F7.30268D9A@erols.com>
Message-ID: <93p4oh$919$1@newsreaderg1.core.theplanet.net>

Another idea: It could return what we all excpect to be returned: The object
that was sorted! So if a list is sorted, why not return the sorted list?

sortedMyItemList = unsortedMyItemList.sort()

Regards
Franz GEIGER

"Edward C. Jones" <edcjones at erols.com> wrote in message
news:3A5F27F7.30268D9A at erols.com...
> I have been programming in Python for several years. I still
> occasionally make mistakes with functions (such as sort) that
> return only "None". I suggest that functions like sort should
> return either "Nothing" or nothing. "Nothing" would be exactly
> like "None" except it can't be assigned. Whether "Nothing" or
> nothing is used, the statement "x= y.sort()" would raise a
> run-time Exception.
>
> Thanks,
> Ed Jones
>
>




From emile at fenx.com  Fri Jan 26 11:05:26 2001
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 08:05:26 -0800
Subject: python-2.1 function attributes
References: <mailman.980515832.8534.python-list@python.org> <94s0r0$elb5e$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de> <m34rymxt4u.fsf@atrus.jesus.cam.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <94s7ai$eo53m$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>

Let's see if I can pare down the interactive session
properly:

>>> def test(a=1,b=2,c=3):
 print 'test . a,b,c =', a,b,c
>>> l = (4,5,6)
>>> test(*l)
test . a,b,c = 4 5 6
>>> d = {'a':44,'b':55,'c':66}
>>> test(**d)
test . a,b,c = 44 55 66

There, that looks OK.  By adopting this in, eg:

def test(...) having (a=1, b=2, c=3):

you'd be able to write either:

l = (4,5,6)
def test(...) having (*l):

--or--

d = {'a':44,'b':55,'c':66}
def test(...) having (**d):

which, to my eye, doesn't nearly get in the flow as mush
<oops ;-)>; allows either list or dictionary arguments;
doesn't require a specific named variable to be present at
that specific location (ala __attribute__); and allows other
functions to extend easily, as eg:

myfunc_attrs = {}
...
myfunc_attrs['unittest'] = """..."""
...
def myfunc(...) having (**myfunc_attrs):

See you,

--

Emile van Sebille
emile at fenx.com
-------------------


"Michael Hudson" <mwh21 at cam.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:m34rymxt4u.fsf at atrus.jesus.cam.ac.uk...
> "Emile van Sebille" <emile at fenx.com> writes:
>
> > I also like it without the dot, as it opens the door to
> > allowing *args and **kwargs style parameter passing
> > interpretation.
>
> What would that mean?
>
> def f(*a=1):
>  print 1
>
> is a syntax error today...
>
> Cheers,
> M.
>
> --
>   ROOSTA:  Ever since you arrived on this planet last
night you've
>            been going round telling people that you're
Zaphod
>            Beeblebrox, but that they're not to tell anyone
else.
>                     -- The Hitch-Hikers Guide to the
Galaxy, Episode 7




From fredrik at effbot.org  Sat Jan 27 10:30:30 2001
From: fredrik at effbot.org (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 15:30:30 GMT
Subject: Python exporting
References: <nyBc6.3633$Uo2.9217@newsfeed.slurp.net>
Message-ID: <qQBc6.9491$Qb7.1389913@newsb.telia.net>

> Ghana python export earnings plummet due to glut

fwiw, this was posted to the daily Python URL one week
ago:

    http://www.pythonware.com/daily/

Cheers /F




From aahz at panix.com  Thu Jan 18 23:31:47 2001
From: aahz at panix.com (Aahz Maruch)
Date: 18 Jan 2001 20:31:47 -0800
Subject: PSU uses emacs?
References: <948e4b$hm0$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <948fvj$oq1$1@panix6.panix.com>

In article <948e4b$hm0$1 at nnrp1.deja.com>,
Chris Ryland  <cpr at emsoftware.com> wrote:
>
>Why do I have the sinking feeling that, with all the talk about IDEs
>for Python, that the cognoscenti all use Emacs with python-mode and a
>shell window? ;-)

vi
-- 
                      --- Aahz (Copyright 2001 by aahz at pobox.com)

Androgynous poly kinky vanilla queer het    <*>     http://www.rahul.net/aahz/
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6

I guess I mostly see Life [tm] as a process of closing doors that you
might want to go through.  --Aahz


From mspiggie at my-deja.com  Thu Jan 25 14:12:56 2001
From: mspiggie at my-deja.com (mspiggie at my-deja.com)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 19:12:56 GMT
Subject: removing duplicates from .csv files
Message-ID: <94ptre$uf0$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

I have been given several comma-delimited (.csv) files, each containing
as many as several thousand lines of entries.  Among the tasks I've
been charged with is to remove duplicate entries.  The files each
contain fields for Contact Name, Company Name, Phone Number, and
Address, among other fields, which vary from file to file.

I'm trying to determine a good way to sort for duplicates according to
Phone Number and according to Address.  It seems that sorting by Phone
Number would be simpler due to minor differences in the way data entry
clerks might have input the addresses (W, W., and West, for instance),
but not all entries have phone numbers.

I have already come up with some code to work around most of the
obvious problems with the different ways addresses may be input, but
I'm not sure what the best way to sort for duplicates might be.  One
suggestion I have received is to have lines with identical fields
placed back to back with an equivalence check and manually read through
the file.  The equivalence check itself seems simple, but I'm not sure
how to scan only the target field (split(), maybe?), and I certainly
want to avoid having to manually remove the duplicates afterward.

Has anyone already worked out a good approach?

TIA,
Rob Andrews


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From kalle at gnupung.net  Mon Jan 22 16:00:19 2001
From: kalle at gnupung.net (Kalle Svensson)
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 22:00:19 +0100
Subject: Newbie Question
In-Reply-To: <980192858.449719@iris.nyx.net>; from sbalu@nyx.net on Mon, Jan 22, 2001 at 07:10:17PM +0000
References: <980192858.449719@iris.nyx.net>
Message-ID: <20010122220019.A1779@apone.network.loc>

Sez sarayu balu:
>  I just downloaded pygtk-0.6.6 and installed it.
> On trying the examples, I am getting an error-
> ImportError: /usr/local/lib/python2.0/site-packages/
> _gtkModule.so: undefined symbol: g_thread_init .
> I have no clue as to what's going on, is it a gtk
> library problem, or python2.0 problem ?

I believe it is a gtk library problem.  glib, to be exact.

Peace,
  Kalle
-- 
Email: kalle at gnupung.net     | You can tune a filesystem, but you
Web: http://www.gnupung.net/ | can't tune a fish. -- man tunefs(8)
PGP fingerprint: 0C56 B171 8159 327F 1824 F5DE 74D7 80D7 BF3B B1DD
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From tim.one at home.com  Wed Jan 17 15:26:08 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 15:26:08 -0500
Subject: help with code for combinations/permutations
In-Reply-To: <944adl$2bf@dispatch.concentric.net>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCGEEFIJAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Bryan Webb]
>     I have a list with 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16 in it,
> I need to come up with all possible combinations of the numbers
> in the above
> list ie. 1 +2, 1+2+3, 1+2+3+4, 1+2+3+4+5 and so on.
>  I will have multiple lists to deal with, larger and smaller.
> Any help or ideas will be appreciated

As the replies you got so far suggest, your request is ambiguous, and
"combinations" is a technical term that doesn't appear to be what you really
have in mind.  Give us an exhaustive example with a small list.  Like

x = [1, 2, 3, 4]

Let's pretend you want someone to write a function f(x), that takes a list x
and returns whatever it is you want.  What (exactly) should f([1, 2, 3, 4])
return?

if-english-sufficed-we-wouldn't-need-to-write-programs-ly y'rs  - tim




From mal at lemburg.com  Thu Jan 25 05:31:24 2001
From: mal at lemburg.com (M.-A. Lemburg)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 11:31:24 +0100
Subject: Unicode string output
References: <mailman.980094083.22572.python-list@python.org> <PmEa6.8085$AH6.1278344@newsc.telia.net> <3a6e7683$0$37181$1a0eedbc@dreader2.news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <3A70007C.89623C9C@lemburg.com>

Boudewijn Rempt wrote:
> 
> Fredrik Lundh wrote:
> 
> > Alexander Kostyrkin wrote:
> >> Surprisingly printing a unicode string that contains a Japanese kanji
> >> character raises an exception
> >> For example
> >>
> >>     print u"\u55f4"
> >> UnicodeError: ASCII encoding error: ordinal not in range(128)
> >>
> >> Is there any way to overcome the problem?
> >
> > If you don't specify what encoding to use on output, Python assumes
> > you're an encoding-ignorant american programmer <wink>, and defaults
> > to ASCII.
> >
> > To use any other encoding, use the encode method:
> >
> >     s = ...
> >     print s.encode("iso-latin-1")
> >     print s.encode("ascii", "ignore")
> >
> > Also see the codecs modules:
> > http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/module-codecs.html
> >
> > Cheers /F
> >
> 
> I came across this problem recently, too, and I didn't want to have
> to remember to explicitly encode my text everywhere in the application.
> But Python doesn't really support setting a default encoding for an
> application, only for _all_ of Python on a machine, because
> sys.setdefaultencoding is removed after starting Python.
> 
> The solution was to add the following file to site-packages:
> 
> sitecustomize.py
> 
> import sys
> 
> sys.setappdefaultencoding=sys.setdefaultencoding
> 
> And call
> 
> import sys
> sys.setappdefaultencoding("utf-8")
> 
> first thing in the application.

Note that setting the default *after* having run site.py may
cause strange effects do the caching of the default encoded
value in the Unicode objects themselves -- there are no
checks applied as to whether the encoding used in these actually
is the current default encoding. This is why the API is only
available in site.py.

Why would you want to set the encoding on a per application
basis, BTW ?

-- 
Marc-Andre Lemburg
______________________________________________________________________
Company:                                        http://www.egenix.com/
Consulting:                                    http://www.lemburg.com/
Python Pages:                           http://www.lemburg.com/python/



From volker.jahns at web.de  Mon Jan 29 08:46:51 2001
From: volker.jahns at web.de (Volker Jahns)
Date: 29 Jan 2001 15:46:51 +0200
Subject: Books
References: <3a757ac1$1@netnews.web.de> <hhfd6.6061$Uo2.20161@newsfeed.slurp.net>
Message-ID: <3a757f33$1@netnews.web.de>

>search for PYTHON and you will have greater success.
>
Thanks, but the pyhton.org should lern PHP... .-)


Warning: fopen("counter.txt","w") - ???? ?????? in 
/usr/local/apache/htdocs/pyhton/index.php on line 28


Warning: Supplied argument is not a valid File-Handle resource in 
/usr/local/apache/htdocs/pyhton/index.php on
line 29


Warning: Supplied argument is not a valid File-Handle resource in 
/usr/local/apache/htdocs/pyhton/index.php on
line 30


Warning: Cannot add header information - headers already sent by (output started 
at
/usr/local/apache/htdocs/pyhton/index.php:28) in 
/usr/local/apache/htdocs/pyhton/index.php on line 42

-- 
_____________________________________________________________
NewsGroups Suchen, lesen, schreiben mit http://netnews.web.de


From mcfletch at home.com  Mon Jan 22 08:22:08 2001
From: mcfletch at home.com (Mike Fletcher)
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 13:22:08 GMT
Subject: [Ann] PyOpenGL 1.5.6 final is available
Message-ID: <4uWa6.213082$59.55482574@news3.rdc1.on.home.com>

The latest release of the Python (http://www.python.org, versions 1.5.2 and
2.0) binding to the OpenGL (http://www.opengl.org) graphics library is
available!  You can get the package in Win32 binary or source-code from:
    http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=5988

The project homepage is:
    http://pyopengl.sourceforge.net/

The release notes for the 1.5.6 version of PyOpenGL are included below FYI.

Enjoy yourselves,
Mike
_______________________________________
PyOpenGL 1.5.6 Release Notes, 2001-01-06

The most significant change in PyOpenGL 1.5.6
compared to PyOpenGL 1.5.5 is not really
connected with the software itself.  Between
the 1.5.5 release (in 1998, by David Ascher)
and the 1.5.6 release (in 2001), the PyOpenGL
package moved to the SourceForge site.

After this move (in mid-2000), the software has
received active maintenance mostly targeted at
fixing perceived problems (the build process,
particular missing features needed by certain
users) in order to release a fixed version of
the package.

PyOpenGL release 1.5.6 represents the first
official release of the SourceForge PyOpenGL
project. It is a direct (minor) variant of the
pre-SourceForge project (1.5.5), with the
following added features:

Distutils Support and Portability
    The original custom build procedure has
been replaced by a (somewhat custom) distutils
script.  This results in a simple build procedure
for both Win32 and UNIX-like environments.
Support for the Macintosh is currently untested.
    (Rene)

Python 2.0 Support
    As part of the move to distutils, the PyOpenGL
extension is now available for Python 2.0.
There is no appreciable difference between the
Python 1.5.2 and Python 2.0 versions of the
library.
    (Rene)

Array Support
    Some of the missing array data structure
functions were added to the library.  These
include:
    glNormalPointer
    glTextureCoordPointer
    glDrawArrays
    (Mike)

glSelectWithCallback Wrapper
    A new PyOpenGL-specific wrapper for the
traditional glSelectBuffer mechanism for hierarchy-
friendly picking using glPushName and glPopName
was added.  See the function doc string and/or the
PyOpenGL web site for details on use.
    (Mike)

TOGL
    TOGL is now registered using deep dark TCL magic
from a position within the PyOpenGL directory tree,
eliminating the "install something into someone
else's namespace" problem with the original version.
    (Rene)

Bug Quashings...

SGI crashes on non-double-buffered demos eliminated
    (Randall Hopper)





From nickatvideosystemdotcodotuk  Tue Jan 23 11:00:18 2001
From: nickatvideosystemdotcodotuk (Nick Trout)
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 16:00:18 -0000
Subject: news - nntp server
Message-ID: <3a6daab8@news.xtml.co.uk>

I'm trying to set up an NNTP/newsgroup server on an NT4 machine.

What is the easiest way to do this please. Can Python help me?!

Thanks in advance,
Nick






From fredrik at effbot.org  Sat Jan 20 01:16:51 2001
From: fredrik at effbot.org (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 06:16:51 GMT
Subject: Tabbing/Spaces
References: <20010120011201.72310F44E@mail.python.org> <mailman.979964962.24958.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <n3aa6.7716$AH6.1213290@newsc.telia.net>

Terry Hancock wrote:
> This is entirely understandable, but it's a lot easier to use tabs
> when writing (and I really wish it was set to 4 spaces myself).

Depends on your editor, of course.

Real editors don't necessarily insert a tab character
everytime you press the tab key...

> But surely there's a simple way to please both -- aren't
> there de-tabbing filters I can use to substitute spaces for tabs
> (or vice-versa)?  What _I_ find really irritating is that my code
> usually winds up being a mixture of the two.

I'm pretty sure your editor can do it for you (I'll leave
it to the vim gurus to explain how).

here's a piece of code I use for emacs (taken from a
java mode sample by jwz):

;; normalize whitespace on the way out
(defun python-mode-untabify ()
  (save-excursion
    (goto-char (point-min))
    (while (re-search-forward "[ \t]+$" nil t)
      (delete-region (match-beginning 0) (match-end 0)))
    (goto-char (point-min))
    (if (search-forward "\t" nil t)
        (untabify (1- (point)) (point-max))))
  nil)
 (add-hook 'python-mode-hook
          '(lambda ()
             (make-local-variable 'write-contents-hooks)
             (add-hook 'write-contents-hooks 'python-mode-untabify)))

Cheers /F




From d  Fri Jan 19 20:50:15 2001
From: d (Sam)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 17:50:15 -0800
Subject: Questions on Python
Message-ID: <t6hl66u6ich47@corp.supernews.com>

Hi everyone,
    I have never really programmed before but I'm very interested in it. My
main goal is to be able to eventually program simple games to fool around
with. I have read that Python is a good language to learn on because it
makes learning other languages easier. I want to ask how should i go about
learning this language? Should I read tutorials online (any good ones i
should check out?) or buy some books (which ones?)? Is this language good
for any programming goal or is it mainly for a certain area? What ways can i
make learning this the easy? Thank you for replies =)




From annis at biostat.wisc.edu  Wed Jan 17 13:58:23 2001
From: annis at biostat.wisc.edu (William Annis)
Date: 17 Jan 2001 12:58:23 -0600
Subject: Any way to restrict execution with regard to execution time??
References: <944n1v$8t6$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <jtpuhmt38w.fsf@wazor.biostat.wisc.edu>

rturpin at my-deja.com writes:

> So here's the problem, that seems intractable in Python.

        Amazing.  I've been worrying about this problem quite a lot
recently, and here's a question on it.

> There are two pieces of code, C1 and C2. C1 wants to run
> C2, but does not trust it to consume only a reasonable
> amount of time (measured in any fashion). How can C1 run
> C2 guaranteeing that C2's execution is interrupted after
> some finite amount of time, if it hasn't finished by
> then? C2 is from an untrusted source, so the answer
> cannot be phrased in terms of how C2 is written. I'd be
> much obliged to anyone who can tell me how to do this!

        Have you tried using signals and a timeout?  I have little
script which is simply an IP filter: if it sees something in stream of
text that looks like an IP address, it tries to lookup the name
associated with that.  This operation can time out, making the program
pretty slow sometimes, so I added a 5 second limit on the lookup:

----------------------------------------
import socket
from signal import signal, alarm, SIGALRM

# Register our timeout signal handler.
class Timeout(Exception): pass

def throw_timeout(sig, frame):
    raise Timeout(sig)

signal(SIGALRM, throw_timeout)

# <some code snipped>

# Return the resolved address if it exists, otherwise, just give back
# the IP version.
def lookup(addr):
    # If this address has been cached, use it; otherwise lookup into cache.
    if not ips.has_key(addr):
        ips[addr] = addr       # default == the IP addr string

        try:
            # Don't wait too long for an answer.
            alarm(5)
            (ips[addr], more, ip) = socket.gethostbyaddr(addr)
            alarm(0)
        except socket.error:
            # Lookup failed.  Reset alarm.
            alarm(0)
        except Timeout:
            # Lookup took too long.  Move on.
            pass
            
    return ips[addr]
----------------------------------------

        Just substitute C2 for the gethostbuaddr() call.

        This works reasonably well for simple situations like the
lookup above.  However, in more complex programs you have a serious
state issue.  If the code you're calling is actually doing work and
changing variables when it times out, you may be left in a strange
state.  Recovering from that seems a bigger problem to me.

-- 
William Annis - System Administrator - Biomedical Computing Group
annis at biostat.wisc.edu                       PGP ID:1024/FBF64031
Mi parolas Esperanton - La Internacian Lingvon  www.esperanto.org


From glenfant at equod.com.nospam  Tue Jan 16 06:30:26 2001
From: glenfant at equod.com.nospam (Gilles Lenfant)
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 12:30:26 +0100
Subject: Where to find the 'dbi' and 'odbc' modules?
References: <mailman.979634964.31590.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <941b3c$2jv$1@reader1.imaginet.fr>

<egmanoj at yahoo.com> a ?crit dans le message news:
mailman.979634964.31590.python-list at python.org...
> Hi all,

Me too !

> I am a python newbie. I recently downloaded Python(2) for WinNT at my
> office and was fiddling with database access. Although the Python
> documentation mentions the dbi and odbc modules, they are not

dbi is no (AFAIK) a module/package, it's the "official" python API for
playing with databases.
odbc module is available with Mark Hammon's Win32 extensions (search from
http://www.activestate.com)

> available with the Python 2 distribution. Can anyone tell me where
> these are available for download?

The best OBDC extension for Python is mxODBC. It's about 90% compliant with
DBI 2.0. It's Windows/Unix portable. And it can play with dates before the
system "epoch".

http://www.lemburg.com/files/python/

>
> Thanks,
> Manoj E.G.
>
>



From arcege at shore.net  Wed Jan 10 12:09:15 2001
From: arcege at shore.net (arcege at shore.net)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 17:09:15 GMT
Subject: How do I get a mimetools.Message object from a mailbox.UnixMailbox object?
References: <vgmh5tkv7h0blpv6j8t1soiipoaum64u7v@4ax.com> <gQ866.12100$K72.43378@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com> <zKtZOtuSM0yT8diPCbNAssX1FC4h@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <%G076.2794$JG.352900@news.shore.net>

Paul Moore <paul.moore at uk.origin-it.com> wrote:
: On Mon, 8 Jan 2001 02:34:31 +0100 , "Steve Holden"
: <sholden at holdenweb.com> wrote:

:>The mimecntl module was invented to overcome the impedance mismatch between
:>mailbox and rfc822, and does so quite well, so you may wish to consider
:>using that instead.  I've used it fairly extensively and only had one
:>problem with it (which I'm debgging between times, but haven't looked at
:>lately).

: Thanks for the pointer. However, the module doesn't seem to handle
: mbox format mailboxes, and the mailbox module doesn't offer a method
: of generating data in a form that can be passed to mimecntl (that
: would need mimecntl.MIME_document to have a constructor from a
: rfc822.message).

: I hand-parsed the Unix mbox format file in the end - it's not hard,
: after all...

A cleaner, long-term solution (instead of hand-editing the files or
using mimecntl) might be to make a subclass of UnixMailbox from
mailbox.py to replace the _Mailbox.next() method to use mimetools
instead:

import mailbox, mimetools
class MimeUnixMailBox(mailbox.UnixMailbox):
    def next(self):
      while 1:
          self.fp.seek(self.seekp)
          try:
              self._search_start()
          except EOFError:
              self.seekp = self.fp.tell()
              return None
          start = self.fp.tell()
          self._search_end()
          self.seekp = stop = self.fp.tell()
          if start <> stop:
              break
      return mimetools.Message(mailbox._Subfile(self.fp, start, stop))

Then use the class as you would the UnixMailbox class.  You could use
the mimecntl module with the UnixMailbox class in the same way, but it
would depend on what you would want to do with it.  If you wanted just
wanted to read the mailbox, the mimetools module is what you want to
use.  But if you want to read/write the messages, you will want to use
the mimecntl module since you will find that converting to mimetools to
MimeWriter is difficult, which is why I wrote the mimecntl module in
the first place.

Using the mimecntl module, you would have something like:

import mailbox, mimecntl

# first make a subclass of MIME_document, to accept "virtual" file
# objects, then a subclass to create and return instances of
# the MIME_document subclass
class NoneFileDoc(mimecntl.MIME_document):
    def check_is_file(self, obj):
        """Check to see if it is like a file, but does not have to
have a "fileno" method."""
        return (hasattr(obj, 'seek') and callable(getattr(obj, 'seek')))

class MimeUnixMailbox(mailbox.UnixMailbox):
    def next(self):
        """Get next mail message, returning a MIME document."""
        while 1:
            self.fp.seek(self.seekp)
            try:
                self._search_start()
            except EOFError:
                self.seekp = self.fp.tell()
                return None
            start = self.fp.tell()
            self._search_end()
            self.seekp = stop = self.fp.tell()
            if start <> stop:
                break
        return NoneFileDoc(mailbox._Subfile(self.fp, start, stop))

    # other methods to write the file out again

if __name__ == '__main__':
    import os, sys
    if len(sys.argv) > 1:
        mailbox_fname = sys.argv[1]
    else:
        mailbox_fname = os.environ['MAIL']
    mailbox_file = open(mailbox_fname, 'r')
  
    mbox = MimeUnixMailbox(mailbox_file)

    print 'First message is'
    print mbox.next() # a printable MIME_document instance

This might lead you in some other directions for where you want to go.
Actually, this sounds like something I'll add to the documentation of
mimecntl.  Thank you. :)

  -Arcege



From amk at mira.erols.com  Wed Jan  3 19:51:05 2001
From: amk at mira.erols.com (A.M. Kuchling)
Date: 4 Jan 2001 00:51:05 GMT
Subject: why no "do : until"?
References: <92jj3j$ff7$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <slrn94shbe.150.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <X8s36.2731$Qb7.305339@newsb.telia.net> <slrn94smds.150.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <FOt36.17$vd1.2224@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com> <slrn94t1vj.150.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <3A4E95FD.D6C737A7@engcorp.com> <slrn94tqkh.150.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <tpr46.7782$4c.597534@ruti.visi.com> <slrn954h6p.rgv.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <3A52AD6A.62D043A2@engcorp.com> <3A534367.36B1FD18@uswest.net>
Message-ID: <slrn957j19.go.amk@207-172-36-81.s81.tnt6.ann.va.dialup.rcn.com>

On Wed, 03 Jan 2001 08:21:11 -0700, Bjorn Pettersen
<pbjorn at uswest.net> wrote: 
>better in the other p-language group. The "while 1" loop seems to be
>a holy cow in Python. 

Hardly; I consider it one of Python's design flaws, and have
accordingly included it in my list of Python warts
(http://www.amk.ca/python/writing/warts.html).  But I've managed to
live with it this far, and don't wish for a do...while that often.

--amk



From tim.one at home.com  Thu Jan  4 21:05:43 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 21:05:43 -0500
Subject: why no "do : until"?
In-Reply-To: <932r3e010bd@news1.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCMEMPIGAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Bjorn Pettersen]
> ...
> (perhaps "for i in 1..10" or perhaps a special form of
> list comprehensions "for i in [1..10 by 2]" <wink>)

[Alex Martelli]
> Surely, if a special syntax existed for what's now written as
> "range(1,10)", it would be absurd to restrict it to being used
> in for loops -- why add rules (complication) to _diminish_
> expressiveness?  I know that a PEP on such a proposal was reently
> rejected, but I don't know why.

Part of the PEP process is writing a patch to implement the idea.  I was the
reviewer for the patch (which was very well done -- no problem there), and
after trying the [i:j:k] notation in practice for a few hours, I liked it
less the more I used it.  For example, it was too easy to forget the square
brackets; and, e.g.,

    for i in [0:len(a)]:

was really no improvement at all (I came to think of it as worse) over

    for i in range(len(a)):

One specific problem is that slice notation for *indexing* has context, by
which I mean that

    a[1:]   # all but the first element of a

can omit the endpoint because it's conveniently supplied by "a".  But the
standalone [i:j:k] notation doesn't have any context to exploit, so it was
just as wordy as calling range.  Also didn't help that as code grew denser,
my eye couldn't immediately distinguish uses of "[]" for indexing from uses
for range-building.  For that reason I believe a notation like 1..10 would
be better -- provided it's needed at all.

Anyway, that lead to a discussion, and it turned out nobody liked the
[i:j:k] notation enough to fight for it.  The patch author wrote that even
he didn't like it, but wrote the patch because Guido told him he should
<wink>.

I count this as a clear success for the PEP process!  [i:j:k] may well have
gotten into the language otherwise (e.g., I was initially favorable, and
more importantly so was Guido).

My own years-old suggestion for a "for" enhancement is the "indexing"
proposal, an optional clause on "for":

    for i indexing a:
    for i indexing x in a:

A study I did at the time said that about 15% of all "for" loops in Python
code were of the form

    for i in range(len(a)):

and that's both an obscure and inefficient way to spell the underlying idea.
As an implementer, it also repels me <0.6 wink>:  Python *always* constructs
an integer index under the covers, and what "for i in range(len(a))" really
does is build a list of the integers 0, 1, 2, ..., len(a)-1; then the for
loop mechanism generates the same integers one at a time all by itself; and
then it passes each in turn to list.__getitem__(), all in order to get back
the same integers it passes!  One of the Missing Pythonic Theses is "where
the implementation is absurd, Guido was too Spartan" <wink>.

it's-enough-that-"while-1"-keeps-testing-the-truth-of-"1"-ly y'rs
    - tim




From aahz at panix.com  Sat Jan 27 18:53:39 2001
From: aahz at panix.com (Aahz Maruch)
Date: 27 Jan 2001 15:53:39 -0800
Subject: python-2.1 function attributes
References: <ul3snm8dfae.fsf@smaug.fsl.noaa.gov>
Message-ID: <94vn23$j0k$1@panix6.panix.com>

In article <ul3snm8dfae.fsf at smaug.fsl.noaa.gov>,
Mike Romberg  <romberg at smaug.fsl.noaa.gov> wrote:
>
>  I've been messing around with python-2.1a1 and have discovered the
>new feature 'function attributes'.  

One thing I'm not clear on from all this discussion is whether one can
do this:

def f():
    f.a = 1
-- 
                      --- Aahz (Copyright 2001 by aahz at pobox.com)

Androgynous poly kinky vanilla queer het    <*>     http://www.rahul.net/aahz/
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6

"I heard Commentary and Dissent had merged and formed Dysentary."


From shredwheat at mediaone.net  Wed Jan 24 12:18:01 2001
From: shredwheat at mediaone.net (Pete Shinners)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 17:18:01 GMT
Subject: thread
References: <3A6EADD6.11122913@acriter.com>
Message-ID: <d7Eb6.97788$y9.18847312@typhoon.we.rr.com>

"Johan Jonkers" <J.Jonkers at acriter.com> wrote
> At the company I work we use python 1.5.2 on Solaris. I made a python
> script on my home computer running linux (same python version btw), but
> when I tried it at work it couldn't find the thread module. I thought
> that the thread module was a standard module? Am I wrong in this?

before python 2.0, the default python compile did not include
threads. you'll need to ./configure --with-threads





From torkil at fast.no  Mon Jan  8 07:18:19 2001
From: torkil at fast.no (Torkil Grindstein)
Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2001 13:18:19 +0100
Subject: How to set up an XML-RPC server (newbie)
Message-ID: <3A59B00B.4CB407D3@fast.no>

Hi.

I'm totally new to xml-rpc, and relatively new to python.

I just want to set up xml-rpc, to play around with in the
first place.

I guess I would have to set up an xml-rpc server first, but
I can't find out how to do it in python. However I found a
step-by-step manual using Zope. Do I need to install that,
or what?

Anyways, I'm using Mandrake 7.2 linux, python 1.5.2-13,
python-xmlrpc-1.0-8

I really could use some hints to get going.

Thanks,
-- 
Torkil Grindstein                 Mail:  Torkil.Grindstein at fast.no
System Architect                  Web:   http://www.fast.no
Fast Search & Transfer ASA        Phone: +47 21 60 11 90
Gr?nnegata 80, Pb 571             Fax:   +47 77 69 66 89
NO-9261 Troms?, NORWAY            Mob:   +47 98 06 61 38

Try FAST Search: http://www.alltheweb.com


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Thu Jan  4 08:53:29 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 14:53:29 +0100
Subject: regular expressions: grabbing variables from multiple matches
References: <mailman.978567423.22249.python-list@python.org> <JPY46.2909$AH6.513673@newsc.telia.net>
Message-ID: <931vai02s3b@news2.newsguy.com>

"Fredrik Lundh" <fredrik at effbot.org> wrote in message
news:JPY46.2909$AH6.513673 at newsc.telia.net...
    [snip]
> Heather Lynn White wrote:
> > Suppose I have a regular expression to grab all variations on a meta
tag,
    [snip]
> but supposing you really are out to extract meta tags from an
> HTML document, it might be a better idea to use the HTML/SGML
> parser in sgmllib:

*Hear, hear*!!!  I keep forgetting to remind people that, while
re's are OK for many tasks, using them to parse structured content
is hard, unrewarding work -- using the already-supplied Python
library modules is MUCH better.  Thanks <F> for reminding us!


Alex





From kbryd at losthighway._nospam_eu.org  Tue Jan 30 07:46:04 2001
From: kbryd at losthighway._nospam_eu.org (Karol Bryd)
Date: 30 Jan 2001 13:46:04 +0100
Subject: slow joinings of strings
References: <87ofwpnrpp.fsf@losthighway.ahoj.pl> <3A76B5F4.A0D1E117@schlund.de>
Message-ID: <87k87dnr77.fsf@losthighway.ahoj.pl>

Carsten Gaebler <cg at schlund.de> writes:

> This should be faster:
> 
> s = open(file, 'r').read()

Ok, this works fine as long as I want to read whole file at once,
but in my case, unfortunately, I need to read file part by part
(the file is RFC822 message, and I want to extract some MIME parts
from it).

Reagards.
-- 
       ------------------- Karol Bryd ------------------
   ---------------- http://int.gnu.org.pl ------------------


From gerhard.nospam at bigfoot.de  Sun Jan 28 16:58:09 2001
From: gerhard.nospam at bigfoot.de (Gerhard =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 22:58:09 +0100
Subject: Newbie Excel question
References: <9520nf$gp2$1@serv1.albacom.net>
Message-ID: <3A7495F1.13854470@bigfoot.de>

Fabrizio wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Newbie, Python2.0, Windows 98, Win32-All, MS Excel97.
> 
> Experimenting with Python and Excel, I have found this example on the web :
> 
> [...]
> from win32com.client import Dispatch
> 
> xlApp = Dispatch("Excel.Application")
> xlApp.Visible = 1
> xlApp.Workbooks.Add()
> xlApp.ActiveSheet.Cells(1,1).Value = 'Python Rules!'
> xlApp.ActiveWorkbook.ActiveSheet.Cells(1,2).Value = 'Python Rules 2!'
> xlApp.Close(SaveChanges=0)
> xlApp.Quit()
> del xlApp
> 
> If I run it the program opens an Excel sheet, writes something in the cells,
> but it fails to close !
> This is what I get :
> 
> Traceback (innermost last):
>   File "C:\Utili\Programmazione\Python\Programmi\excel.py", line 16, in ?
>     xlApp.Close()
>   File "C:\Python20\win32com\client\dynamic.py", line 435, in __getattr__
>     raise AttributeError, "%s.%s" % (self._username_, attr)
> AttributeError: Excel.Application.Close
> 
> Any help ?

Perhaps. I have Excel 2000 here. The AttributeError just means that
Excel.Application has no Close method. If you want to examine the
methods and attributes available, you can Start Excel, hit Alt-F11 to
get into the Visual Basic editor, then hit F2 to get to the Object
browser. You can then look at the entire Excel object hierarchy to see
which Classes support which methods.

I guess that the above code simply has a typo, it should probably mean
xlApp.ActiveWorkbook.Close(SaveChanges=0). At least this works on my
Excel 2000.

Gerhard
-- 
Sorry for the fake email, please use the real one below to reply.
contact: g e r h a r d @ b i g f o o t . d e
web:     http://highqualdev.com


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sat Jan 20 06:47:54 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 12:47:54 +0100
Subject: Tabbing/Spaces
References: <B68E060D.901B%bobhicks@adelphia.net> <mtzogn9rpx.fsf@astron.berkeley.edu> <ivcZcLAtwLa6Ew2r@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <mtu26v9iwm.fsf@astron.berkeley.edu> <slrn96ipbi.oul.quinn@groat.ugcs.caltech.edu>
Message-ID: <94bu2u0jl5@news2.newsguy.com>

"Quinn Dunkan" <quinn at groat.ugcs.caltech.edu> wrote in message
news:slrn96ipbi.oul.quinn at groat.ugcs.caltech.edu...
> On 19 Jan 2001 16:17:13 -0800, Johann Hibschman
<johann at physics.berkeley.edu>
> wrote:
> >Shrug.  Whatever suits you best, I guess.  I just hate getting all-tab
> >code, since then I have to re-indent it for it to be readable.
> >All-space code, on the other hand, always looks fine.
>
> Unless you use proportional fonts.

The syntactically significant whitespace in Python is that from
the left margin and the first non-white character of each line.
_In this specific context_, use of proportional fonts is not an
issue: 'all-space code ... looks fine' regardless of that.


Alex





From fredrik at effbot.org  Wed Jan 24 05:59:30 2001
From: fredrik at effbot.org (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 10:59:30 GMT
Subject: Conspiracy Revealed
References: <mailman.980331421.18849.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <mAyb6.9009$Qb7.1276386@newsb.telia.net>

anonymous at zadka.site.co.il (doubt you'll need Don Foster
to figure out who hides behind this nom de guerre) wrote:

> Tim is actually an alien intelegience, capable of taking over people's
> minds

he's pure software.  part lisp, part python.

> Alex Martelli came into c.l.py and started to write scarily-timbot-like
> postings

same software, different verbosity settings (this one
goes to eleven)




From DavidLNoNoSpammy at raqia.com  Mon Jan  8 14:32:30 2001
From: DavidLNoNoSpammy at raqia.com (David Lees)
Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2001 14:32:30 -0500
Subject: Is there a Python binding for daVinci?
Message-ID: <3A5A15CE.30C8DD48@raqia.com>

I would like to display directed graphs and daVinci has been
recommended.  Does anyone know if there is a Python binding or a Python
equivalent?

daVinci is at http://www.tzi.de/daVinci/


Thanks in advance,

david lees
davidl at raqia.com


From buster2642 at my-deja.com  Mon Jan 15 18:59:16 2001
From: buster2642 at my-deja.com (buster2642 at my-deja.com)
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 23:59:16 GMT
Subject: newbie: grep -1f file1 file2 in Python
Message-ID: <9402sg$d2n$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

A common search I do with a shell (csh) script is

% grep -1f file1 file2 > file3

where file1 is a list, one item per line, of items
to match in file2, displaying both the line before
and the line after the matched line, writing all 3
lines to file3.

Pydiom suggestion?  Thanks!

Chuck


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From vasvir at iit.demokritos.gr  Mon Jan  1 08:50:45 2001
From: vasvir at iit.demokritos.gr (Vassilis Virvilis)
Date: Mon, 01 Jan 2001 15:50:45 +0200
Subject: SMB Module
References: <92n1lh02evv@drn.newsguy.com> <slrn94vpc7.544.mballen@angus.foo.net> <92pkod011eh@drn.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <3A508B35.1D328941@iit.demokritos.gr>

Armin Steinhoff wrote:

[snip]

> 
> In article <slrn94vpc7.544.mballen at angus.foo.net>, mballen at erols.com says...
> >
> >Armin Steinhoff wrote:
> >>Makes no sense, because a SMB client mapps normaly a M$ volume to a directory
> >>tree (UNIX) or a virtual drive (M$) ... I don't see in that case any tasks for
> >>Python.
> >
> >I'm not really sure what your talking about Armin.
> 
> See above ... SMB clients :)

I think we have a slight misunderstanding here. Please let us remind you
that unless you are using linux you cannot mount SMB shares since you
lack the smbfs module which is a smb client actually. The SMB client
library is very useful in that respect, thus effectively allows other
operating systems to access MS servers. Since python offers bindings for
every other library in this planet I don't really see why such an
addition would be  useless or inconsistent.


[snip]

> 
> BTW .. the 'SAMBA' SMB server works with WinXY and UNIX and it is FREE!
> 

The thread was about SMB clients not SMB servers.

	.Bill


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Wed Jan  3 08:41:19 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2001 14:41:19 +0100
Subject: One Python 2.1 idea
References: <018a01c071a5$e52abde0$102b2bc1@cadlab.it>, <92gjnu02q3r@news2.newsguy.com>, <mailman.978038049.481.python-list@python.org> <20001229190243.78478A84F@darjeeling.zadka.site.co.il> <mailman.978224055.28671.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <92va7o02rpj@news2.newsguy.com>

"Moshe Zadka" <moshez at zadka.site.co.il> wrote in message
news:mailman.978224055.28671.python-list at python.org...
> On Fri, 29 Dec 2000 15:44:43 +0100, "Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com>
wrote:
>
> > I'm not claiming it's a _frequent_ application need, to
> > change the behavior of a few methods in certain instances
> > only -- but, I do claim it IS a real need, and I have the
> > scars (and frameworks of Coplienesque C++ templates, because
> > that's the language I was using then) to prove it...:-)
>
> OK, now we're getting somewhere: can you give an example (perhaps
> simplified) of a problem this helps to solve?
>
> this-will-probably-another-fun-and-fruitless-discussion-ly y'rs, Z.

No doubt, yes:-).  Anyway, consider for example a typical
off-the-shelf rich and complex interactive application that
is used for some reasonably complicated task, such as 3D
design of mechanical components and assemblies.  It has, and
exposes to third-party "plug-ins", a lot of objects, such
as various kinds of "buttons", "sliders", and other GUI
artefacts.  You can "conceptually frame" these 'GUI objects'
in many ways, and ditto for the (sometimes corresponding)
'non-GUI' ones that are "in the guts" of the exposed
object-model; but surely presenting them as 'objects' with
'methods' (&c) is one reasonable possibility.

Now, consider a "plug-in" that is transiently activated; when
it IS active, it wants to "tweak" the behavior of just a few,
specifically-identified 'buttons' (&c) and 'internal objects'
out of the zillion instances of those classes that exist at
any given time in the GUI and in the internal engine.  For
example, a 'spline' object, that normally responds to a method
requesting it to distort its shape thus-and-thusly, may need
to be affected by the activation of a certain plug-in (specific
to a certain application area, and certain design or checking
phases) so that the 'shape distortion' happens differently,
while other 'spline-objects' not affected by the plug-in keep
behaving as they previously did -- and the 'affected' object
must revert to 'normal behavior' if the plug-in is deactivated,
as well as keeping normal behavior for a h**l of a lot of other
methods.  Such needs may apply, depending on the specific
area of application and the purposes of the plug-in, to any
(small) subset of method of any (small) subset of objects
that the application's object-model exposes.

The simplest way to frame this, is to tell the plug-in authors
that they can just substitute their own code for any given
subset of methods of any exposed objects they can identify,
and 'restore' the original behavior when needed.  Of course,
I cannot *implement* it this way if the language or framework
in use is not flexible and dynamic enough to directly expose
this conceptualization -- I have to insert some layer of
"indirectness", and I may even have to expose it directly to
the plug-in's programmer, again depending on expressive power.

For example, to satisfy such a general need in a COM framework,
I might reverse the 'natural' conceptual framing like a glove,
and expose the whole customizability in terms of "events": any
time an application-object is required to do something, it can
first try to generate a 'BeforeSomething' event -- if any
plug-in has registered a listener for such events on the object,
it gets a chance to block them and substitute its own code; and
after nobody's blocked it, and the object's method has run, it
can further generate an 'AfterSomething' event, so that any
listener may optionally examine the resulting object state and
possibly effect some further changes to it.  It IS a powerful
alternative framing, and VBA programmers have apparently learned
to think in these terms, since this is basically the way one
does VBA customization of any Microsoft Office application.

But changing a given object's response to a certain request
more directly, by "temporarily plugging in your own code in
stead of the original's", is simpler and more natural _if the
language/framework/object-model that is in use affords it_,
particularly if the target audience of plug-in programmers
are not used to thinking in terms of "intercepting events,
possibly blocking the normal resulting response" and the subtle
before/after distinctions -- the 'synchronous' nature of "the
application's framework calls method M on object O, and code
is executed to respond to it" is much more linear than "the
application's framework calls method M on object O, then object
O broadcasts event BeforeM to all current listeners, stopping
if the Cancel parameter is ever set, then, if Cancel was NOT
set, O's code [that you can't change] is executed to respond
to the original request, and finally object O broadcasts event
AfterM to all current listeners".  The additional generality
of the latter approach (e.g. as permitted by the multi-listener
situation inherent in the 'broadcast') ensures it cannot be
quite as linear and simple as the former one for situations
that DO fit the former (which are pretty frequent ones).


Alex





From tim.one at home.com  Sun Jan  7 05:16:52 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2001 05:16:52 -0500
Subject: How to run more than one instance of the Python interpreter in one process?
In-Reply-To: <938hjk$2cj$1@troll.powertech.no>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCKECOIHAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Syver Enstad]
> I am fiddling around with embedding Python in C/C++ and am trying
> to run one interpreter per thread. I've tried using the
> Py_NewInterpreter and Py_EndInterpreter for each thread but it
> doesn't seem to be enough because I trigger access violations in
> the interpreter so I am obviously missing a couple of things. Are
> there any examples on how to do these kinds of things other than
> the very sparse code in the demo folder of the source distribution.

None that I've ever seen, or heard of.  Py_{New,End}Interpreter appeared to
have been added during a brief bout of Tcl Envy, and neglected thereafter.
The natural place to talk about this is the Python Thread-SIG:

    http://www.python.org/sigs/thread-sig/

But, in the past, I was unable to get anyone there to admit they used this
API either.  You should bring it up there, though; at least Guido may be
interested.  Be sure to say which version of Python you're using and which
platform you're running on.

there-are-no-access-violations-under-windows<wink>-ly y'rs  - tim




From peter at engcorp.com  Sat Jan 27 10:21:42 2001
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 10:21:42 -0500
Subject: Strange Python 2.1 return style (was Re: . Python 2.1 function 
 attributes)
References: <mailman.980593892.725.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3A72E786.BCBD13C7@engcorp.com>

Tim Peters wrote:
> 
> > It seems to me even kludgier than print>>.
> 
> Barry also added code to Python 2.1 to let you write, e.g.,
> 
>     def f() >> x:
>         x = 1
>         y = 2
> 
> as a short way to spell "whatever the value of x is at the end of the
> function, return that".  I'm sure you'll agree that's much cleaner than the
> clumsy
> 
>     def f():
>         x = 1
>         y = 2
>         return x
> 
> people suffer with today.

Is there a smiley missing from the above?  Sounds like a 
bad April Fool's joke, to me.

Given what 'print >>' is supposed to do, wouldn't
'def f() >> x' suggest something more along the lines
of "take whatever is returned by f() and stuff output
it to x"?  

So now we have to deal not only with an unnecessary 
addition to the print statement, that looks like
a foreign language (not Python), but now we are
going to have the same operator be used in a 
different context with a completely different 
meaning?  (I agree on one level with those who
objected to 'print >>', although I happen to think
I'll actually use it and appreciate it, but at
least it rides on the C++ connotation of stuffing
data into something, instead of just pointing 
out the thing that data will be pulled out of...)

I think some people are starting to get nervous
about '>>' and other such non-intuitive, C++-like
cryptic sugary syntax.

Whatever happened to 'one way of doing things',
and 'simpler is better than completely twisted'?


From emile at fenx.com  Wed Jan 24 06:07:53 2001
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 03:07:53 -0800
Subject: thread
References: <3A6EADD6.11122913@acriter.com>
Message-ID: <94md3o$e6g8k$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>

On my system, I configure --with-threads when compiling.

--

Emile van Sebille
emile at fenx.com
-------------------


"Johan Jonkers" <J.Jonkers at acriter.com> wrote in message
news:3A6EADD6.11122913 at acriter.com...
> Hi!
>
> At the company I work we use python 1.5.2 on Solaris. I
made a python
> script on my home computer running linux (same python
version btw), but
> when I tried it at work it couldn't find the thread
module. I thought
> that the thread module was a standard module? Am I wrong
in this?
>
> Johan




From lvanderfeltz at knowledgetrax.com  Thu Jan  4 15:49:49 2001
From: lvanderfeltz at knowledgetrax.com (Lennard van der Feltz)
Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 20:49:49 GMT
Subject: AMK's ZODB package on Win32
References: <mailman.978625505.30132.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Nl556.119244$15.24450203@news1.rdc1.az.home.com>

I was able to use the ZODB part of the package without undue difficulty. The
ZEO part of the package is tailored to Linux.

Lennard


"andres.corrada" <andres.corrada at mpingo.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.978625505.30132.python-list at python.org...
>
> Can Kuchling's ZODB package be used under Win32? Does someone have
> experience doing this?
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> Andres Corrada-Emmanuel  andres.corrada at mpingo.com
> --------------------------------------------------
>




From matt at virtualspectator.com  Sun Jan 21 19:03:22 2001
From: matt at virtualspectator.com (matt)
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 13:03:22 +1300
Subject: patch for python configure for freeBSD and Zope
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.21.0101211751020.77700-100000@open-systems.net>
References: <Pine.BSF.4.21.0101211751020.77700-100000@open-systems.net>
Message-ID: <01012213091603.00887@localhost.localdomain>

On Mon, 22 Jan 2001, Chris Watson wrote:
> > Sorry, to be more explicit :
> > I built python 1.5.2 and Zope 2.2.2 from source, although the most recent
> > stable release of Zope also gave the same error.
> > 
> > I did not use the ports distribution of python or zope, so I don't know if
> > the same default configure script is used by them too.
> > 
> > Is that what you wanted to know?
> 
> 
> 	Yes. That answers what I wanted to know. Is there a specific
> reason you didnt want to use the ports? Since the ports work just fine im
> assuming there is. I would like to know if its because the ports are
> lacking a feature you need so they can be fixed? If not why not just
> use the ports?
>


No reason except that I have an install script for python, zope, and modules
(including configuration) for both that I "know" form a stable environment on
our production servers, whether linux, or freeBSD.  I should try the ports
distribution and run my unit tests to perhaps build a more likely to be
stable freeBSD installer for our work.

Matt


   
> --
> =============================================================================
> -Chris Watson         (316) 326-3862 | FreeBSD Consultant, FreeBSD Geek 
> Work:              scanner at jurai.net | Open Systems Inc., Wellington, Kansas
> Home:  scanner at deceptively.shady.org | http://open-systems.net
> =============================================================================
> WINDOWS: "Where do you want to go today?"
> LINUX: "Where do you want to go tomorrow?"
> BSD: "Are you guys coming or what?"
> =============================================================================
> GNU = Gnu's Non-portable & Unstable
> irc.openprojects.net #FreeBSD -Join the revolution!
> ICQ: 20016186



From sheila at thinkspot.net  Tue Jan 16 04:18:21 2001
From: sheila at thinkspot.net (Sheila King)
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 09:18:21 GMT
Subject: Script performance: Filtering email
Message-ID: <nu386t8g081r90fskfbsnvqvrjf3a1egkf@4ax.com>

I'd appreciate any analysis or tips on this task I'm trying to accomplish, and
my actual Python code (which is at the bottom of this message).

So, I'm writing a script to filter my e-mail. I'm using Python, but I'd assume
performance would be more or less equivalent to a script in Perl. I tested it
yesterday afternoon. Seemed fine.

My host uses qmail as an MTA. I can invoke my python script using .qmail files
each time an e-mail arrives. My plan: replace my .qmail default file, with a
new version, that calls my script. Except for a few, well-chosen aliases, that
have their own .qmail files, that skip over the script.

I started using it for a while tonight. Further testing. It all seemed fine.
What it does: checks for certain headers in the e-mail to determine whether it
is a "good" email or a "bad" email. If good, it sends it to a private e-mail
address that I have never published or shared with anyone. Otherwise, the mail
is sent to a spam-bucket address. Like I say, seemed fine for a while.

Then, late last night (after a few hours of using the script), my e-mails
seemed to be disappearing into the void. I panicked, and took the script down.
Before taking it down, I sent myself several test mails. Both ones that would
qualify as "good" mails and as "bad" ones. None seemed to be delivered. So, I
took my filter script down. Tested if mails could now go through. They did.
Just fine.

Strangely enough, these missing e-mails eventually appeared. Some of them,
over an hour from the time they hit my web host's mail servers until they hit
my mailbox. Some of them about a half hour. Some about seven minutes.

Could my little 26 line Python script be causing this? It doesn't seem that 45
minutes to an hour is about normal for an email to go through on my web host.
Performance there is usually very good, and I never saw it take that long
before.

Please examine the script below, if you would, and let me know if I'm
overlooking some performance issues. I'm a real Python newbie, so maybe I'm
doing something really dumb.

Thanks,

--
Sheila King
http://www.thinkspot.net/sheila/
http://www.k12groups.org/


Here is my script:
Code Sample:

 #! /big/dom/xdomain/Python-2.0/python

 import rfc822, sys, string, smtplib

 ##check if to: and cc: addresses are in my approved file
 def goodmessage(addresseeslist, rcptlist):
      for addr in addresseeslist:
           for rcpt in rcptlist:
                if (upper(addr[1]) == upper(rcpt)):
                     return 1
      return 0

 ## Retrieving data ##

 ##uncomment the below two lines if message data
 ##  is read from stdin
 origheaders=rfc822.Message(sys.stdin, 0)
 body = sys.stdin.read()

 ##uncomment the below three lines if message data
 ## is read from a file
 #infile=open("message6.txt", "r")
 #origheaders=rfc822.Message(infile)
 #body = infile.read()

 ## Setting forwarding e-mails, sender e-mail
 ## and file with list of good recipients
 fwdgood = "privateaddr at domain.com"
 fwdbad = "spambucket at spamcop.net"
 sender = "myemail at mydomain.com"
 goodrcptfile = open("GoodToList.txt", "r")   ##textfile with good address
                                              ## for To: and cc: fields
 goodrcptlist = string.split(goodrcptfile.read())
 goodrcptfile.close()

 addressees =[]
 addressees = addressees + origheaders.getaddrlist("To")
 addressees = addressees + origheaders.getaddrlist("Cc")

 mssg = string.join(origheaders.headers,"")
 mssg = mssg + "\n" + string.join(body, "")

 server=smtplib.SMTP("mysmtp.com")

 if goodmessage(addressees, goodrcptlist):
      server.sendmail(sender, fwdgood, mssg)
 else:
      server.sendmail(sender, fwdbad, mssg)
 server.quit()




From mjackson at wc.eso.mc.xerox.com  Wed Jan  3 10:18:06 2001
From: mjackson at wc.eso.mc.xerox.com (Mark Jackson)
Date: 3 Jan 2001 15:18:06 GMT
Subject: using 'global' across source files.
References: <3A52EE2C.32432EF5@sara.nl>
Message-ID: <92vfre$drs$1@news.wrc.xerox.com>

Bram Stolk <bram at sara.nl> writes:
> Mark Jackson wrote:
> > 
> > Bram Stolk <bram at sara.nl> writes:
> > > According to the manuals, it should simply be in the namespace
> > > '__main__', but that doesnt work either.
> > 
> > You're misreading the manuals.  Can you tell us how you drew this
> > conclusion?  (Possibly the manuals could be clearer.)
> 
> Well, because in execframes.html, it can be read that:
> "The main module for a script is always called __main__"

You're misinterpreting the significance of the term "main module"; it
*doesn't* denote, for example, "a comprehensive namespace that contains
all names."  It just refers to the top-level namespace (in a tree-, or
rather hedge-like sense):  what you have direct access to when working
in the interpreter, or alternatively where a script executes.
Observe:

    yngvi> cat eggs.py
    print "Hi, I'm eggs"
    print dir()
    print __name__

    yngvi> python -i eggs.py
    Hi, I'm eggs
    ['__builtins__', '__doc__', '__name__']
    __main__

    >>> import eggs
    Hi, I'm eggs
    ['__builtins__', '__doc__', '__file__', '__name__']
    eggs
    >>> 

If you don't understand this behavior you don't understand Python
namespaces well enough.  Rereading section 9.2 of the tutorial ("Python
scopes and namespaces") may be helpful.

> And because I can do:
> dir(__builtins__)
> 
> I thought, why the heck doesn't dir(__main__) work?

As noted elsewhere you have to import __main__ into the local
namespace.  In the interpreter you can simply incant dir() without an
argument, which as seen above refers to the local namespace (which in
that case is, of course, __main__).

> Also, I had no idea that using a 'global val' cmd, creates 
> another copy of val, which I deduct from your comment:
> "But the val that change_val changes is defined in funcs.py, 
> NOT prog.py"

Wrong deduction.  Names are not copied.  (Objects may be copied; global
does neither.)  In the code to which I was referring you had created
two names 'val'; one in prog.py and one in funcs.py.  Here it is:

    # funcs.py
    
    def change_val() :
      global val
      val = val * 2
    
    
    
    # prog.py
    
    val = 100
    
    import funcs
    
    
    funcs.change_val()
    print val

In prog.py the name val will be created by the execution of "val = 100"
(which happens when prog.py is executed as a script, or when "import
prog" creates a module).  In funcs.py it will be created by the
execution of "val = val * 2" during invocation (not definition) of
change_val(); because of the preceding "global val" the name will
appear in the module namespace rather than in the local namespace for
the function change_val.  Study this until it ceases to surprise:

    yngvi> cat funcs.py
    def change_val():
	    global val
	    val = 2
	    print dir()
    
    def no_change():
	    val = 5
	    print val
	    print dir()

    yngvi> python -i funcs.py
    >>> dir()
    ['__builtins__', '__doc__', '__name__', 'change_val', 'no_change']
    >>> change_val()
    []
    >>> dir()
    ['__builtins__', '__doc__', '__name__', 'change_val', 'no_change', 'val']
    >>> print val
    2
    >>> no_change()
    5
    ['val']
    >>> print val
    2
    >>> 

The function change_val has no local names, but its invocation creates
one in the surrounding namespace (__main__ in this case).  The function
no_change has, while executing, a local name, val, which is entirely
unrelated to __main__.val.  (One could change either 'val' to
'throatwarblermangrove' without effect.)

> I thought that python's 'global' acted like C's 'extern' cmd,
> meaning, that 'global val' does NOT define/create 'val',
> only refers to a val that exists somewhere else.
> 
> I don't know wether me thinking this is due to my poor
> understanding, or the quality of the manuals, though.
> 
> Anyway, to clear things up: what I wanted to achieve is
> pretty straightforward: I can use "global vars" that
> reside outside a func body, but in the same module.
> I wanted one step further: use "even more global vars"
> that reside outside a func body, and even outside the
> current module (read: sourcefile).

See other advice (for example, from D-man) on this subject.

-- 
Mark Jackson - http://www.alumni.caltech.edu/~mjackson
	The power of accurate observation is frequently called
	cynicism by those who don't have it.
			- George Bernard Shaw




From smibr at my-deja.com  Wed Jan 24 16:42:19 2001
From: smibr at my-deja.com (smibr at my-deja.com)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 21:42:19 GMT
Subject: Timestamping JPEGs w/ PIL?
References: <mailman.980006598.21663.python-list@python.org> <Y_Pa6.2432$9v2.76312@quark.idirect.com>
Message-ID: <94ni7p$ta2$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

> http://www.cs.usyd.edu.au/~piers/python/pilfonts.html
>
> Kevin Cazabon.

I'm getting 404'd on this address. Have they been moved somewhere else?


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From grante at visi.com  Thu Jan 25 15:56:27 2001
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 20:56:27 GMT
Subject: smtplib --> receiving emails two times
References: <94paet$9o3$1@news.netcologne.de> <mailman.980432430.15190.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <%p0c6.378$27.116649@ruti.visi.com>

In article <mailman.980432430.15190.python-list at python.org>, Martin Franklin wrote:

>You have the To: line in the message body.  This gets  used by the smtp 
>server to send the mail twice
>
>so change the following.
>                      
>msg = ("From: %s\r\nTo: %s\r\nSubject: topic\r\n\r\n"
>%(fromaddress,toaddress))
>
>
>to 
>
>msg = ("From: %s\r\nSubject: topic\r\n\r\n" %(fromaddress))

Eh?  The SMTP server should ignore that To: header -- it's just
"message data".  It should only send the mail to the addresses
specified in the RCPT command.  RFC-788 is pretty explicit
about this.

I'd advise leaving a To: header in the message. Some MUAs don't
like messages without a To: line in the header. Personally,
I've got procmail configured to dump messages with no To:
header into the garbage.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  .. Everything
                                  at               is....FLIPPING AROUND!!
                               visi.com            


From juergen.erhard at gmx.net  Mon Jan 15 13:19:12 2001
From: juergen.erhard at gmx.net (Jürgen A. Erhard)
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 19:19:12 +0100
Subject: Announce: Mississippi Python Interest Group
In-Reply-To: <3A4B9156.458DA8B9@antionline.org> (hoopyfrood@antionline.org)
References: <3A4B9156.458DA8B9@antionline.org>
Message-ID: <15012001.2@wanderer.local.jae.ddns.org>

>>>>> "R" == R A <hoopyfrood at antionline.org> writes:

    R> MS PIGgie (MS Python Interest Group) is a new group for people
    R> interested in Python.  The new website and email list are intended to
    R> develop into useful resources, and membership is loosely defined.

Don't you rather mean "Ms. PIGgie"? ;-)

Bye, J

-- 
J?rgen A. Erhard    juergen.erhard at gmx.net   phone: (GERMANY) 0721 27326
          My WebHome: http://members.tripod.com/Juergen_Erhard
              GNOME Desktop Project (http://www.gnome.org)
                Comes in two sizes: huge and Oh-My-God.



From johann at physics.berkeley.edu  Tue Jan 16 14:38:39 2001
From: johann at physics.berkeley.edu (Johann Hibschman)
Date: 16 Jan 2001 11:38:39 -0800
Subject: using __init__ with params ( somewhat long )
References: <slrn969988.5uj.corey@scanner.axcelerant.com>
Message-ID: <mtu26zl22o.fsf@astron.berkeley.edu>

Corey  writes:

> def __init__(self, dictionary, attr1=None, attr2=None, attr3=None):


> Is this considered overkill? It seems like it to me when thinking
> about it, but I'm perhaps too stuck in the Perl "There's More Than 
> One Way To Do It" mindset... and so want to make this class as easy 
> to use as possible within the context/methodology of which it gets 
> utilized.

I often write code like:

class MyClass:
    def __init__(self, attr1=None, attr2=None, attr3=None):
        self.attr1 = attr1   # I interpret "None" as "uninitialized".
        self.attr2 = attr2
        self.attr3 = attr3

If you absolutely must pass in a dictionary, you can use

instance = apply(MyClass, (), {'attr1': 1, 'attr2': 2, 'attr3': 3})

using the third argument to apply.

If the case of keywords is wrong, an TypeError will be raised.

Is this good enough?

-- 
Johann Hibschman                           johann at physics.berkeley.edu


From ssthapa at harper.uchicago.edu  Tue Jan 16 12:29:57 2001
From: ssthapa at harper.uchicago.edu (ssthapa at harper.uchicago.edu)
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 17:29:57 GMT
Subject: File I/O, rfc822, and stdin/stdout
References: <m9b26t8f11lvfjg8a59fo8nfdcl1ro9art@4ax.com> <mailman.979458074.1585.python-list@python.org> <72i36t8mmo27mi2nmv5iahr4ospps9crat@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <slrn9644ug.lf.ssthapa@ntcs-ip45.uchicago.edu>

Sheila King <sheila at thinkspot.net> wrote:
>
><rfc822.Message instance at 80bf6d8>

    Your python script doesn't seem to understand how to print 
objects from the rfc822 module.  In particular I believe you need to
read the fp instance variable and print the data it returns.  E.g.

for line in foo.fp.readlines():
    print line

or something like that.


-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------
			    |
Suchandra Thapa             | "There are only two kinds of math books. 
s-thapaNO at SPAMuchicago.edu  | Those you cannot read beyond the first 
			    | sentence, and those you cannot read 
			    | beyond the first page."
			    |                       -C.N. Yang
------------------------------------------------------------------


From poseidon_cma at my-deja.com  Wed Jan 31 14:42:23 2001
From: poseidon_cma at my-deja.com (James Lockley)
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 19:42:23 GMT
Subject: os.popen: writing to...?
Message-ID: <959pqt$tgp$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

hi all

am tryng to automate a process using python to control the calling.  At
the moment have python calling windows batch files using os.popen,
which works fine.

i now want to go to the next step and get rid of the batch files...
i need to open a pipe to a command and then write the command arguments
to it.

as far as i could make out, this should work:

>>> abaqus='c:\\abaqus\\5.8-14\\abaqus.exe'
>>> abq=os.popen(abaqus,'w')
>>> abq.write('post')

but i get this:

Traceback (innermost last):
  File "<interactive input>", line 1, in ?
IOError: [Errno 22] Invalid argument


thanks in anticipation
james




Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From bobhicks at adelphia.net  Thu Jan 18 09:45:43 2001
From: bobhicks at adelphia.net (Robert L Hicks)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 14:45:43 GMT
Subject: Python training on east coast?
Message-ID: <B68C6B99.8E47%bobhicks@adelphia.net>

Are there any Python training courses on the east coast?

Bob



From wmiller34 at my-deja.com  Wed Jan  3 12:13:38 2001
From: wmiller34 at my-deja.com (wmiller34 at my-deja.com)
Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 17:13:38 GMT
Subject: time.mktime bug in 2.0?
References: <mailman.978540004.4337.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <92vmjp$bk2$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

that works!  thanks for the quick response.  I have been coding it
wrong all along but in 1.52 it somehow still works.


In article <mailman.978540004.4337.python-list at python.org>,
  "Jeff Collins" <jcollins at endtech.com> wrote:
>
> The argument is a 9-tuple:
>
> time.mktime((1999,12,21,0,0,0,0,0,0))
>
> On Wed, 3 Jan 2001 wmiller34 at my-deja.com wrote:
>
> > I'm getting this "TypeError" when I use mktime in 2.0.  It works in
> > 1.52.  Any ideas?
> >
> > >>> import time
> > >>> t = time.mktime(1999,12,21,0,0,0,0,0,0)
> > Traceback (innermost last):
> >   File "<interactive input>", line 1, in ?
> > TypeError: mktime requires exactly 1 argument; 9 given
> >
> >
> > -Walter
> >
> >
> > Sent via Deja.com
> > http://www.deja.com/
> >
>
> --
> Jeffery D. Collins, Ph.D.
> Sr. Software Developer
> Endeavors Technology, Inc.
>
>


Sent via Deja.com
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From rvprasad at cis.ksu.edu  Sun Jan 28 15:42:56 2001
From: rvprasad at cis.ksu.edu (Venkatesh Prasad Ranganath)
Date: 28 Jan 2001 14:42:56 -0600
Subject: PyXML
Message-ID: <m37l3f76i7.fsf@boss.dreamsoft.com>

Hi,

If a xml document linked to an external dtd is read using
xml.dom.ext.reader.Sax2.Reader object's fromStream() method then the
document's doctype should have the systemId specified in the document but this
is not true in PyXML.

I am using PyXML from pyxml.sourceforge.net on a linux box with Python 2.0.  The
XMLDocument will have a doctype but instead of the uri to the external dtd the
DocumentType's systemId will be empty.

Is this the right behaviour for DOM Core level 2 specification?  Or Am I missing
something?  Or is PyXML broken?

waiting for reply,

-- 
Venkatesh Prasad Ranganath


From sdm7g at virginia.edu  Thu Jan  4 12:42:43 2001
From: sdm7g at virginia.edu (Steven D. Majewski)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 12:42:43 -0500 (EST)
Subject: embedded python - cancel "while 1: pass"
In-Reply-To: <Eo156.83$Oe.897@tor-nn1.netcom.ca>
References: <P9K46.13336$t3.31020@tor-nn1.netcom.ca> <EmK46.3488$Qb7.431195@newsb.telia.net> <Eo156.83$Oe.897@tor-nn1.netcom.ca>
Message-ID: <Pine.NXT.4.21.0101041210150.227-100000@localhost.virginia.edu>


On Thu, 4 Jan 2001, Warren Postma wrote:

> Okay, I have a worse case than WHILE 1: PASS
> 
> How about uninterruptible C code called via python, such as this:
> 
> print 2L ** 2L ** 256
> 
> I've let this run for 15 minutes and it didn't complete. There is no
> apparent way to abort it either, as it spends its time in long_mult and the
> Python scheduler doesn't even run. It must complete eventually. Any idea how
> long long_mult and long_pow will take to complete this?
> 

long_mul (also l_divmod, both of which are called in long_pow)  calls a
SIGCHECK macro which calls PyErr_CheckSignals() so it is interuptible
by a signal ... and I can, in fact, control-C out of that expression 
and get a 'KeyboadInterrupt' exception.

You didn't state on what platform your app is running, so you might 
first want to verify that the keyboard interrupt does exit that
expression from the Python interpreter on your platform. 

(Step 2 depends on whether the problem is that signals don't work on 
your platform, or they do work, but it doesn't work in the embedded
interperter in your app. ) 

-- Steve Majewski 





From rupole at msn.com  Mon Jan  1 19:20:23 2001
From: rupole at msn.com (Roger Upole)
Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2001 00:20:23 GMT
Subject: Simulating WWW button press
References: <Xns901CE2154Latzikatz@139.174.2.56>
Message-ID: <a9946.17874$K9.1101544@pouncer.easynews.com>

If you are exploring it via Internet Explorer and win32com, you can get
the button object and activate it like this:
btnobjs = ieobject.Document.getElementsByName('zipallpage')  ### always
returns a collection
btnobjs[0].click()
    hth
     Roger Upole

"Lutz Schroeer" <Lutz.Schroeer at tu-clausthal.de> wrote in message
news:Xns901CE2154Latzikatz at 139.174.2.56...
> Hi,
>
> I try to write a program which explores a WWW-site. Unfortunately not all
> links on this site are done by a standard "<a href=""></a>" construct but
> with a button:
>
> [...]
> <INPUT NAME="zipallpage" TYPE="submit" VALUE="Get all files">
> [...]
>
> How do I get my Python program to simulate the button being pressed to
> retrieve the data which hides behind the button?
>
> Lutz





From moshez at zadka.site.co.il  Tue Jan  9 10:23:31 2001
From: moshez at zadka.site.co.il (Moshe Zadka)
Date: Tue,  9 Jan 2001 17:23:31 +0200 (IST)
Subject: Thank you (was Re: Should I learn Python or Java?)
In-Reply-To: <00ea01c079b4$6dc9f4c0$8a00000a@darwin.net>
References: <00ea01c079b4$6dc9f4c0$8a00000a@darwin.net>, <HEO56.5504$y9.2881293@typhoon.we.rr.com> <G2V56.5826$y9.3184141@typhoon.we.rr.com> <mailman.978901087.32745.python-list@python.org> <3A593236.6331BE0C@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <20010109152331.511E3A82D@darjeeling.zadka.site.co.il>

On Mon, 8 Jan 2001 14:49:00 -0600, "Doug Ball" <doug at postsmart.net> wrote:

> Dear Peter and list:
> 
> Peter you mentioned in a posting:
> 
> "I don't think I know of any language without warts, and
> I think there's a theory (from Hofstadter? (sp?)) that
> says you can't have a theory that is both consistent and
> complete."
> 
> I am a big fan of such things and was excited to see you mention it.
> However I think you may be referring to Godel's Theorem.
> 
> If anyone is interested in this topic there is an excellent book entitled
> "Godel, Escher, Bach: an Eternal Golden Braid" by Douglas R. Hofstadter.  In
> his book, Dr. Hofstadter  restates Godel's theorem as: " All consistent
> axiomatic formulations of number theory include undecidable propositions."

Thanks for the clarification!
The "number theory" part is important -- you can have theories which
are both consistent and complete.
Two easy examples, one not so easy example
1. The theory of dense linear orders without minimum or maximum
2. The theory of complex numbers
3. [Hard!] The theory of real numbers

In fact, the proofs in 1+2 are very similar, but a bit painful: what you
prove is that every formula in the theory of linear orders/fields is
equivalent to an existential formula. Then you prove that the additions
of enough "solutions" makes every existential formula equivalent to
quantifier free formula. since the only qunatifier free statements
are either tautologies or contradictions, QED.

3 is similar, but proving that in the theory of ordered fields every
forumla is existential is considerably harder.

on-topic-ly y'rs, Z.
-- 
Moshe Zadka <sig at zadka.site.co.il>
This is a signature anti-virus. 
Please stop the spread of signature viruses!



From tim.one at home.com  Wed Jan 24 22:50:28 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 22:50:28 -0500
Subject: Random and whrandom
In-Reply-To: <94mjv402318@news2.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCIEAAILAA.tim.one@home.com>

[posted & mailed]

[Alex Martelli]
> ...
> before this 'deprecation' is done, though, I dearly hope
> checkpoint/restart needs will be considered in the abstract
> RNG interface.

FYI, I just checked in changes to random.py to supply getstate()/setstate()
methods.  While it wasn't documented, it turns out that-- via reliable
accident --you could checkpoint/restart the old whrandom just by pickling
and unpickling its hidden "_inst" vrbl.  Wasn't enough for random.py,
though, as that was also hiding state in module globals.  The reworked
random.py makes everything a method of a new (but usually invisible) Random
class, and its getstate()/setstate() methods save/restore all the state
(&also arranges for pickles to work reliably too).

yet-another-reason-to-hunger-for-2.1a2-ly y'rs  - tim




From amk at mira.erols.com  Tue Jan  9 22:30:57 2001
From: amk at mira.erols.com (A.M. Kuchling)
Date: 10 Jan 2001 03:30:57 GMT
Subject: mxTools (was Re: why no "do : until"?)
References: <Iw5jLKALa0W6Ewjq@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <Pine.LNX.4.30.0101092015010.5204-100000@fep132.fep.ru> <mailman.979066090.17094.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrn95nml8.ij.amk@207-172-69-8.s262.tnt8.brd.va.dialup.rcn.com>

>There are a potentially infinite number of types/classes/modules which
>can be considered as essential if they are required for consistency in
>more than one other module.

In addition, many modules release new revisions much faster than
Python does.  For example, I consider adding the XML parsing modules
to 2.0 to now have been demonstrated to be a serious mistake; there
have been 2 or 3 PyXML releases since Python 2.0.  The versions in 2.0
had some serious bugs; Martin von Loewis now has to expend effort on
maintaining consistency across two source trees; patches and bug
reports sometimes go into the Python project, sometimes into the PyXML
project; and if you find xml.dom.minidom is present, you have no idea
if it's the latest version or an older buggy version.

--amk


From erno-news at erno.iki.fi  Wed Jan 31 05:17:14 2001
From: erno-news at erno.iki.fi (Erno Kuusela)
Date: 31 Jan 2001 12:17:14 +0200
Subject: how to store great array?
References: <953sps$nta$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <slrn97bjo6.8va.quinn@bolivar.ugcs.caltech.edu> <mailman.980846556.5007.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <kud7d43u1h.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>

In article <mailman.980846556.5007.python-list at python.org>, Thomas
Wouters <thomas at xs4all.net> writes:

| pointer + int + int + long + pointer (ob_sval is a placeholder that gets
| allocated to the right size in the PyString_New) = 160 bytes on a 32bit
| system, 256 bytes on a proper 64bit system, and 224 bytes on Win64. Plus the
| length of the string in whatever size a char is on that particular system
| (usually a single byte.)

however, this will only hold for machines with 1 bit per byte. :)

  -- erno


From mikeb at mitre.org  Mon Jan 22 11:32:56 2001
From: mikeb at mitre.org (Mike Brenner)
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 11:32:56 -0500
Subject: wxPython
Message-ID: <3A6C60B8.72249CDB@mitre.org>

Doug > I'd like to hear what people think of wyPython and any experience
they've
had with it, in particular as to how it compares to using other GUI
toolkits
like Tcl/Tk for instance.


The first problem to be solved with Python is how to get graphics
working the same on Linux and Windows. We tried several systems, and
wxPython got all functions except 2 up and running very quickly on both
systems. 

The first thing that we can't get any part to work is cutting and
pasting bit strings on the screen.

The second thing that can be gotten to work, but you must develop on
windows and port to Linux (not the other way around) is the sizing of
the intermediate levels of objects. Like most GUIs, wxPython requires
many levels of objects (windows, frames, etc., etc.). If you develop the
GUI on Linux, the sizing/resizing/automatic sizing always works on Linux
but fails when moved to Windows. Windows requires a lot more sizing
calls at a lot more intermediate levels to make it work correctly,
otherwise everything gets jumbled up on top of each other. When I have
all the details worked out, I will post exactly where to do the sizing
so we can do the GUI development on Linux and it will then still work
under Windows.

Outside of GUIs, all of our static and moving graphics were trivial to
write an awk scripts to convert it from BASIC, awk, C, C++, Pascal, Ada,
Ada-95, PL/SQL, Eyemusic, LaTeX, etc., into Python wxWindows calls
worked the first time on both Linux and Windows, using the HANGMAN
example in the wxWIndows EXAMPLES directory. Of course, now that we have
become Python experts, we would write any future conversion scripts in
Python instead of in awk, of course.

We were not able to get TK-inter or GTK to convert so it worked on both
Linux and WIndows with the same source code in the same amount of time,
so we stopped working on them.

If anyone knows how to cut and paste bits strong to/from the screen, I
am interested in finding out how.

Mike Brenner




From ibrewale_2000 at yahoo.com  Sun Jan 14 23:18:25 2001
From: ibrewale_2000 at yahoo.com (ibrewale_2000 at yahoo.com)
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 04:18:25 GMT
Subject: manipulating data
Message-ID: <93ttmd$j04$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

Need some help;

I have a Pmw/Tkinter program I am trying to write (just learning), in a
text entry box I can retrieve numbers entered into it and print it like
this...

print self.amount.get()

But I want to assign the number I retrieve with get, into a variable,
like:

b = self.amount.get()

but this doesnt work.  I would like to put it into the variable,
multiply it b = b * .0875  (example)
and then eventually cPickle it.

How do I put it into the variable??

Thanks
ibrewale_2000 at yahoo.com


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From cpr at emsoftware.com  Thu Jan 18 11:41:26 2001
From: cpr at emsoftware.com (Chris Ryland)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 16:41:26 GMT
Subject: Automatic Documentation Tools?
References: <mailman.979786073.2627.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9476bl$cou$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

In article <mailman.979786073.2627.python-list at python.org>,
  Terry Hancock <hancock at earthlink.net> wrote:
> I've seen a number of automatically generated documentation
> on the web for C/C++ source code.  Is there anything like
> this for Python?  I've taken over documenting a piece of
> code, and it would be nice to at list have a list of classes,
> attributes, and methods from which to work.  Seems like it
> ought to be automateable, but I don't know the fastest way
> to do it.
>
> Any suggestions?

I think the forthcoming Python 2.1 will have Ping's pydoc module, which
can do a lot of this kind of thing. (At least that's what I gather from
snooping on, er, reading python-dev religiously. ;-)
--
Chris Ryland * Em Software, Inc. * www.emsoftware.com


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From vonWedel at lfpt.rwth-aachen.de  Thu Jan  4 07:37:23 2001
From: vonWedel at lfpt.rwth-aachen.de (vonWedel at lfpt.rwth-aachen.de)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 13:37:23 +0100
Subject: Use of threading.Condition class
Message-ID: <OF4BEFC4FE.0DF66B93-ONC12569CA.0044F63C@lfpt.rwth-aachen.de>

Hi,

I'm trying to pass data between threads A and B. A notifies B to produce 
something 
and now I want the reference to the produced instance back in thread A. 
The documentation for threading.Condition proposes something like

     # Consume one item
     cv.acquire()
     while not an_item_is_available():
         cv.wait()
     get_an_available_item()
     cv.release()

for the consumer side. I don't understand the while loop around
the cv.wait() statement -- wouldn't cv.wait() block anyway until 
cv.notify() has been called in the other thread?

Lars
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From gregj at pobox.com  Mon Jan  1 22:45:41 2001
From: gregj at pobox.com (Greg Jorgensen)
Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2001 03:45:41 GMT
Subject: why no "do : until"?
References: <92jj3j$ff7$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <slrn94shbe.150.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <X8s36.2731$Qb7.305339@newsb.telia.net> <slrn94smds.150.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <FOt36.17$vd1.2224@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com> <slrn94t1vj.150.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <3A4E95FD.D6C737A7@engcorp.com> <92maie$cfo$3@newshost.accu.uu.nl> <mailman.978383941.17836.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <F9c46.218953$U46.6640877@news1.sttls1.wa.home.com>

"D-Man" <dsh8290 at rit.edu> wrote:

> How about
>
> until x > 25 :
> ..
> This may remove the "while 1" argument for most cases too!

That's equivalent to the while loop. Your example is the same as while x <=
25. while (1) would be writtent until (0). We're talking about how a loop
with the test "at the bottom" could work, like this C code:

  do {
      ...
  } until (condition);

This breaks Python's indentation rules for blocks, though. The Python
equivalent is:

  while (1):
      ....
      if (condition): break

--
Greg Jorgensen
PDXperts
Portland, Oregon, USA
gregj at pobox.com





From wolfson at midway.uchicago.edu  Mon Jan  8 13:13:22 2001
From: wolfson at midway.uchicago.edu (Ben Wolfson)
Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2001 18:13:22 GMT
Subject: How do I get a mimetools.Message object from a mailbox.UnixMailbox object?
References: <vgmh5tkv7h0blpv6j8t1soiipoaum64u7v@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <6rn66.75$x3.836@uchinews>

In article <vgmh5tkv7h0blpv6j8t1soiipoaum64u7v at 4ax.com>,
Paul Moore  <gustav at morpheus.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>I'm parsing a Unix mbox format file in Python. No problem, that's what
>the mailbox module does...
>
>The problem is, mbx.next() returns a rfc822.Message instance - and my
>mailbox contains MIME-encoded messages with attachments. How do I get
>from the rfc822.Message instance to a mimetools.Message instance?

I don't know how well this will work, and it seems rather unsavory,
but:

>>> import mailbox
>>> import mimetools
>>> mailbox.rfc822.Message = mimetools.Message
>>> mailbox.rfc822.Message
<class mimetools.Message at 00B603BC>



-- 
Barnabas T. Rumjuggler
I say, an object can move whether or not an "external (male, masculine) 
force" chooses to act upon (rape) it!
 -- David Zacuto


From Dan.Rolander at marriott.com  Thu Jan 18 13:45:29 2001
From: Dan.Rolander at marriott.com (Rolander, Dan)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 13:45:29 -0500
Subject: Can Python clear a DOS screen?
Message-ID: <6176E3D8E36FD111B58900805FA7E0F80CCF62D6@mcnc-mdm1-ex01>

I've got a Python script that writes to a DOS console. Is it possible to
have the script clear the screen?

Thanks,
Dan




From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Thu Jan 18 15:15:56 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 21:15:56 +0100
Subject: Python & GUI?
References: <3A674896.C7E52247@crepido.com>
Message-ID: <947j3i01h9k@news2.newsguy.com>

"Marco Seiri?" <marco at crepido.com> wrote in message
news:3A674896.C7E52247 at crepido.com...
> Are there any GUI components or ways to build a GUI in
> Python that contains all the widgets that one would expect to
> find in a VB or Java environment. Can you (easily) build things
> like explorer like applications and such...

There is "an embarassment of riches" for GUI's in Python -- you
get to choose among many GUI frameworks, cross-platform and
not.  wxWindows is, I think, the fastest and most powerful
cross-platform choice, and for that one you also get a nice free
GUI builder (Boa Constrictor); tkInter is probably the most
widespread one; my personal favorite, however, is Dynamic
Html -- used in a cross-platform way, it has some limitations,
but, targeting one specific and powerful browser (such as IE),
it's awesome, IMHO (and I'm sure that making full use of
Mozilla's abilities can give similar results just as easily -- the
Mozilla 6 GUI parts, Gecko, is what ActiveState chose to build
their powerful cross-platform IDE, Komodo).  Nor would I count
good old tkInter out of the game, since /F is turning his attention
to making a 'new generation' on it... given /F's abilities, it may
well end up as the most powerful GUI kit of them all!

This is NOT meant as an exhaustive list -- PyQt, for example,
is also cross-platform and well liked (I'm told it's also no-cost
for Windows, despire the different status of Qt itself on Win
platforms), and I still haven't really gotten into platfom
specific things, such as PythonWin &c.


Alex





From tim.one at home.com  Thu Jan 11 21:01:28 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 21:01:28 -0500
Subject: Speed of Python vs. Perl
In-Reply-To: <14941.48767.124071.397459@beluga.mojam.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCEEBNIIAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Tim]
> Indeed, on my box, I can clearly see the difference between:
>     python -c "print 'hi'"
> and
>     perl -e "print 'hi'"
> by eyeball (the former takes a noticeable fraction of a second;
> the latter appears instantaneous).

[Skip Montanaro]
> Then you have better reflexes than anyone suspected

There you go, projecting your limitations onto others again <wink>.

> or you need a better box (I thought you had a 700+ MHz thingamabob)...

That was on a 866MHz P3, 256Mb RAM, Win98SE.  I've seen this for
approximately 10 years, though, on all sorts of boxes.

> On my box (being similarly vague), the time command shows no
> more than 0.04sec user time for the python command and no more
> than 0.01sec user time for the perl command (even after
> adding a \n to make them truly comparable ;-).

Like everything else, it varies by platform and configuration.  I'm not keen
to dig into the details on either of our boxes, though -- like I said, it's
been discussed on c.l.py many times already.  Last time it popped on
Python-Dev (via Greg Stein), Greg Ward reported these stats on the number of
system calls at startup, obtained via running truss/strace/par on assorted
Unix variants:

Total:
               Solaris     Linux    IRIX[1]
  Perl              88        85      70
  Python           425       316     257

Number of "open" calls:
               Solaris     Linux    IRIX
  Perl             16         10       9
  Python          107         71      48

Number of unsuccessful "open" calls:
               Solaris     Linux    IRIX
  Perl              6          1       3
  Python           77         49      32

Number of "mmap" calls:
               Solaris     Linux    IRIX
  Perl              25        25       1
  Python            36        24       1

Number of "brk" calls:
               Solaris     Linux    IRIX
  Perl               6        11      12
  Python            47        39      25


> Still, the machine seems to think that Python is slower than Perl
> at startup even though I can't tell...

Write a little shell loop, and count how *many* times you can start each in,
say, a grand total of 10 seconds (that's a crude model of what people who
claim to care about this are concerned about).  Then do it again adding "-S"
to your python line.  You may (or may not <0.5 wink>) discover something
interesting on your box.

> of-course-it-could-be-a-windows-/-linux-thing-jab-jab-ly y'rs,

Absolutely.  Python on Windows goes crawling thru the registry too, and is
*always* built from dynamic libraries (python.exe is under 24Kb on
Windows -- it's not like running that alone can accomplish much <wink>).

"startup"-covers-a-world-of-activities-all-by-itself-ly y'rs  - tim




From fgeiger at datec.at  Tue Jan 30 12:49:34 2001
From: fgeiger at datec.at (Franz GEIGER)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 18:49:34 +0100
Subject: How do you lock your web app data?
Message-ID: <956uqd$6st$1@newsreaderg1.core.theplanet.net>

Hi all,

I began to play around with cgi scripts and of course use Python for that.
And man, it is a pleasure to do that with Python! It really is a snap. After
about a day I had written an Issue Tracker, where People can add software
feature requests and bug reports. At this time I add functionality to edit
and delete the entries - until now they only could have been added.

So  an important issue enters the game: How do I lock others out, when one
edits/writes records? Please get me right: This will not be a heavy load app
nor will it be to handle requests and reports from hundreds of people.
Therefore and because I just settled out to explore cgi I decided to use
text files and pickle files for maintaining data and state, which is very
convenient.

Of course I could take a database as backend but I wonder if there are other
possibilities to achieve that "serialization"? How do you do it? Do you
always use a database? Is it worth the effort doing it without a database?

The server is an NT box running IIS4. Python is of version 2.0 (AvtiveState
distribution).

Any hint is appreciated.

Thanks in advance and best regards
Franz GEIGER






From emile at fenx.com  Fri Jan 26 15:34:10 2001
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 12:34:10 -0800
Subject: python-2.1 function attributes
References: <mailman.980515832.8534.python-list@python.org> <94s0r0$elb5e$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de> <m34rymxt4u.fsf@atrus.jesus.cam.ac.uk> <94s7ai$eo53m$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de> <m3y9vywa2p.fsf@atrus.jesus.cam.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <94sn2b$ep0sc$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>

"Michael Hudson" <mwh21 at cam.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:m3y9vywa2p.fsf at atrus.jesus.cam.ac.uk...
> "Emile van Sebille" <emile at fenx.com> writes:

<snip>

> > > > l = (4,5,6)
> > def test(...) having (*l):
>
> Uhh, how do you propose to refer to the elements of l?
test.0?

Of course, I propose to refer to them as a, b & c.  Exactly
how that should happen is an implementation detail.  ;-)
(Obviously a case of insufficient ROM - Read Operators Mind
... which reminds me of WOM - Write Only Memory)

<snip>
> BTW, I've implemented my proposal at:
>
>
http://sourceforge.net/patch/?func=detailpatch&patch_id=1034
41&group_id=5470
>
> You need a *really* recent Python (i.e. CVS from later
than yesterday)
> to get this to work (Jeremy checked in the code for PEP
227, static
> nested scopes, which really beat up the compiler).  But
give it a
> whirl!
>
> Cheers,
> M.
>

I did, and it looks like I missed the timing re: compile.c
and the patch didn't take.  I'll have to try again later.

See you,


--

Emile van Sebille
emile at fenx.com
-------------------






From quinn at chunder.ugcs.caltech.edu  Sat Jan 20 16:54:26 2001
From: quinn at chunder.ugcs.caltech.edu (Quinn Dunkan)
Date: 20 Jan 2001 21:54:26 GMT
Subject: My first script (so go easy on me!)
References: <B689D7B0.8ABF%bobhicks@adelphia.net> <vx796.4108$tq1.254271@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <slrn96k28i.7c9.quinn@chunder.ugcs.caltech.edu>

On Wed, 17 Jan 2001 02:35:07 GMT, Oldayz <sill at localhost.kitenet.net> wrote:
>On Tue, 16 Jan 2001 15:50:17 GMT, Robert L Hicks <bobhicks at adelphia.net> wrote:
>>#!/usr/bin/python
>>
>>##
>># This is a small script to cause the inetd daemon to re-read itself
>>##
>>
>>r = "kill -HUP `ps cax|grep inetd|awk '{print $1}'`"  # restarts the daemon
>>n = "Inetd not restarted"
>>w = "Answer needs to be 'yes' or 'no'. Try again!"
>>
>>answer = " "

...

>>Is this ok? My question is when the print statement is run do I need to do a
>>linefeed so the terminal accepts what was printed? Or does the fact that
>>python send the print to the terminal cause the terminal to execute it?
>>
>>How would you clean this up?

Here's how I'd do it:

#!/bin/sh

killall -HUP inetd


:)

Seriously, though, keep in mind that there are still things which are more
suitable for shell than python.  If you find yourself doing lots of pipelines
in strings and os.system()s, you're writing shell-in-python and might be
better served by just shell.

Yah, yah, I know it was just a learning excercise :)


From fredrik at effbot.org  Fri Jan  5 03:14:14 2001
From: fredrik at effbot.org (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 08:14:14 GMT
Subject: socket block ????
References: <rE956.234587$RP.45612789@news1.rdc1.md.home.com>
Message-ID: <qnf56.3807$Qb7.492790@newsb.telia.net>

Eric Hagemann wrote:
> Making use of the socket module, the library manual indicates that the
> default behavior of the module is to block on a read or a write.  But when
> using socket.recv(buf) some times it returns before reading len(buf) bytes.

buffered != blocking

In blocking mode, recv guarantees that it will wait for
*some* data from the other end before it returns.

To get buffered behaviour, use the "makefile" method
to get a buffered file interface to the socket, and read
via that interface.

here's a typical excerpt from a client program:

  sock = socket.socket(socket.AF_INET, socket.SOCK_STREAM)
  sock.connect((host, port))
  file = sock.makefile("rb")
  data = file.read(1024) # get first kilobyte from server

in a client, you usually only need to buffer input (to simplify
parsing).  to send data, use unbuffered "send" as usual.  if
you prefer buffered output too, don't forget to "flush" data
before trying to read a response from the server

Hope this helps!

Cheers /F

<!-- (the eff-bot guide to) the standard python library:
http://www.pythonware.com/people/fredrik/librarybook.htm
-->





From gregj at pobox.com  Tue Jan  9 19:29:17 2001
From: gregj at pobox.com (Greg Jorgensen)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 00:29:17 GMT
Subject: dns reverse look up with python ?
References: <93ecvp$v21$02$1@news.t-online.com> <93fe1k$mh4$0@216.39.151.169> <U4L66.246946$U46.7820243@news1.sttls1.wa.home.com> <93g1k8$mhk$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <x1O66.247069$U46.7828485@news1.sttls1.wa.home.com>

"Donn Cave" <donn at u.washington.edu> wrote in message
news:93g1k8$mhk$1 at nntp6.u.washington.edu...

> I won't guarantee that reverse lookup can always stabilize, but if
> that kind of brain damage exists out there it's pretty easy to avoid.
> In this particular example, it looks to me like the lookup DOES stabilize.
> That is, 'basic-igloo.winston.dreamhost.com' is still 216.240.147.136,
> and vice versa.  That second "real" DNS is the reverse lookup.

Many (too many) name servers can't or won't resolve reverse DNS properly.
Whether because of ignorance, error, or security worries, you can't trust
reverse DNS to work at all, and when it does the results are often
questionable. I agree that a hostname/IP address will stabilize most of the
time, but don't count on it.

--
Greg Jorgensen
PDXperts
Portland, Oregon, USA
gregj at pobox.com




From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sat Jan 20 07:32:03 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 13:32:03 +0100
Subject: help with code for combinations/permutations
References: <mailman.979763239.20136.python-list@python.org> <94bbev$vai$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <94c0np0m18@news2.newsguy.com>

<cpsoct at my-deja.com> wrote in message news:94bbev$vai$1 at nnrp1.deja.com...
> It is not my question, but if i may be permitted, i think i can ask get
> more specific. Or rather try to suggest one possibility. Do you perhaps
> mean something that would be like this:
>
> permute(list, n) -- return the nth permutation of a list.

Actually, the original poster explicitly asked for *combinations*, NOT
*permutations*:

> > > I need to come up with all possible combinations of the numbers

and went on to use a commutative operator ('+') on the subsets, so
I see no reason to doubt he really wanted combinations (the difference
being that ordering of items does not distinguish combinations, while
it is all that distinguishes permutations!-).

I answered the original question, in practice, exactly by building a
function that returns the N-th subset (combination) of a sequence --
easy, given the isomorphism between such subsets and binary
numbers of len(sequence) bits!-)  Enumerating permutations is
not quite as easy, although of course quite feasible.  But anyway,
the little Pythonish trick around this is writing this function as the
__getitem__ method of a class wrapped around the sequence --
that way, client-code can just loop on all 'items' (whether they be
combinations, permutations, whatever) with a for statement.


Alex





From Dan.Rolander at marriott.com  Fri Jan 19 16:52:21 2001
From: Dan.Rolander at marriott.com (Rolander, Dan)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 16:52:21 -0500
Subject: BeOpen 2.0 vs ActiveState?
Message-ID: <6176E3D8E36FD111B58900805FA7E0F80CCF62F5@mcnc-mdm1-ex01>

Paul,

Thanks for the clarification. But if the package you've built is free, why
restrict redistribution at all?

Dan

-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Prescod [mailto:paulp at ActiveState.com]
Sent: Friday, January 19, 2001 4:46 PM
To: Rolander, Dan
Cc: 'python-list at python.org'
Subject: Re: BeOpen 2.0 vs ActiveState?


"Rolander, Dan" wrote:
> 
> I'd like to hear your thoughts on the two different Win32 distributions,
> BeOpen vs. ActiveState. Why should I choose one over the other? The
> ActiveState distro is nice to include some of the critical Win32
extensions,
> but the thing I don't like about it is the requirement for an agreement
with
> them to redistribute. If I'm building solutions for others and want to
> distribute the Python libraries along with my source code, I don't want to
> have to get permission from ActiveState to do that first.

You do not need permission from ActiveState to distribute parts of the
Python library. You only need permission to re-distribute the
ActiveState package itself.

 Paul Prescod



From fakeaddress at nospammail.com  Wed Jan 24 22:19:34 2001
From: fakeaddress at nospammail.com (Ben Catanzariti)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 14:19:34 +1100
Subject: 4NT and Python
Message-ID: <n46o49.p5k.ln@mail>

 Does anyone here use 4NT (or any of JPSoft's win32 shell scripting products)? Is there away to pass information dynamically/piping between the Python and 4NT and vice versa? It can be done with REXX

Thanks

PS Outputting data toa text file is not dynamic ;)
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From tjreedy at udel.edu  Mon Jan 22 20:29:05 2001
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 20:29:05 -0500
Subject: I (don'  ) will kill my Python
References: <mailman.979968022.26994.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <94imd1$23p$1@news.udel.edu>

"Bruno Schaefer" <bup.schaefer at planet-interkom.de> wrote in message
(and Tim Peter already gave one reply)

> I'am still here ... and I don't want to kill  my Python.

Good.

> It was not my aim to hurt somebody and sorry to all.

Apology accepted on behalf of all who don't object to my doing so.

> But all the  replies to my message (which came from an outbreak of
frustrations)
> are very interesting.

> All aspects in short:
> 1. There are many Python users with similar problems

Let's define the problem as sharing Python code.  One solution is to bundle
the Python runtime and libraries (a few megabytes) with each piece of
Python code.  For a person who will get only one piece of Python code and
will never want to do anything directly with the interpreter, this might be
the best solution.  But for multiple chunks of code, I agree with Tim that
one open installation of Python is better than multiple closed copies.  (By
'closed', I mean only able to execute the one main module the system is
bundled with.)

What we 'need' is to persuade PC/Windows venders to pre-install Python the
same way many Linux venders do now and the way many microcomputer sellers
once did with MSBasic (around 20 years ago).

> 2. The Python developers have to do more in this direction

'Have to' can mean one of two things: 1) 'because I say so', which is
obviously irritating, and 2) 'because of the nature of the social-political
political universe we live in'.  Since statements of the latter can also
have a tone of 'because I say so', they can also be irritating.  As Tim
hinted, repeated demands (especially by newcomers) for free service,
unaccompanied by appreciation for the gift already received, and the
ongoing effort to improve it, occasionally leads to an 'outbreak of
frustration' (as you so aptly put it).

How about 'Many people would like the Python developers to do more in this
direction'.

As modified, this is now a true statement, but is easing the creation of
stand alone executables the right way to go?  People can honestly disagree.
One problem with sharing files is dependency on non-standard modules.
Suppose I write a picture database program using WxPython for the GUI, PIL
(Python Imaging Library) for the image manipulation, and Gadfly (In-memory
RDBM) for the database, all of which have their own binaries.  Asking a
friend to download and install three more packages (in addition to core
Python) is certainly a nuisance for him or her, but combining multiple
binaries, or the code they are compiled from, would be at least a major
nuisance for anyone, and I am not sure how far the process can be reliably
automated.  Besides which, any bug-fix or gotta-have upgrade in any package
requires a repetition of the entire process of bundling and distribution of
all.

Let those who believe in that direction proceed if they wish, but many
Python developers and volunteers are more interested making it easier to
add packages to a standard open installation.  This is the goal of the
disutils (distribution utilities) project.  What many of us would like
ultimately is a super import function that could handle URLs (such as
'python.org/download/packages'?) as part
of the search path and do whatever is needed to get the necessary text and
binary files onto the local machine so the program can continue
successfully.

One final note: the reason some people want to distribute a standalone
binary is to hide their Python code by burying it within the binary.  Such
people are free to do so, but the Python developers who freely share their
code do not 'have to' help others hide code.


> Young people, starting with programming, take their program on a disk
> and give it to their friends and will say "This is my program! I have
> created that by myself !!!"

This was a major part of the microcomputer revolution back when everyone
had some version of Basic.  The result was thousands of publicly available
programs.  I (and others) would like Python to play the same role in the
future: 'Basic for the 21st century', or 'Basic for the New Millenium'.

> And the reality is that most of beginners use M$soft products, that
means Win$.

Most is not all!  What if your best friend has a Mac?

Besides this, the pluralization of 'products' must also be applied to the
'Windowses' (arguably not grammatically correct, but such is the problem
arising from applying a single plural name to multiple singular entities).
Windows 3.1, 95, 98, 98SE, NTx.y, 2000, and ME are all different from each
other, and supposed upgrades and successors are not always compatible with
binaries that work with predecessors (ie, ME does not seem to run all 98
programs).    It's impressive that the (free) Python installers for
'Windows' work as widely as they do.

There is a real argument for swimming the river once (per Python version)
by installing an open Python system (and necessary compiled libraries) and
then exchanging standard text files.

> Is it the best solution for this problems to say : Go to VB or never
> come back, if Python users are angry about their problems ???

No. its to get Python installed on every machine, and make it easier to
install optional packages.

Terry J. Reedy





From phd at phd.pp.ru  Mon Jan 15 11:20:15 2001
From: phd at phd.pp.ru (Oleg Broytmann)
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 19:20:15 +0300 (MSK)
Subject: python compiled to native in less than a year?
In-Reply-To: <kcF86.6006$J%.594457@news.flash.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0101151916400.15657-100000@fep132.fep.ru>

On Mon, 15 Jan 2001, scotth wrote:
> Since the new .NET platform from MS will take all the compatible .NET
> languages and transform them to an IL (intermediate language ???), then take
> the IL to native compiled code, this means that python will be compiled, but
> only for the Windows platform.
>
> Is what I have said correct, or have I missed something?  This would give
> python a huge boost!

<OFFTOPIC mode="flame">
   I am afraid you are near to be correct. This way M$ is trying to bound
you to one damned platform. This dirty trick is the answer to Sun's dirty
tricks with Java.

   Stay away from M$, it is perfectly dangerous. Whatever is touched by M$
soon become M$ :( Don't touch M$, too, let the Sun be sad example :(((
</OFFTOPIC>

Oleg.
----
     Oleg Broytmann            http://phd.pp.ru/            phd at phd.pp.ru
           Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN.




From fredrik at effbot.org  Tue Jan 30 04:28:50 2001
From: fredrik at effbot.org (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 09:28:50 GMT
Subject: . Python 2.1 function attributes
References: <95432j014on@news2.newsguy.com>, <mailman.980717974.17843.python-list@python.org> <mailman.980839535.28757.python-list@python.org> <955umt0923@news2.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <mPvd6.9836$Qb7.1504929@newsb.telia.net>

Alex Martelli wrote
> Take Stackless, for example.  Have you ever heard arguments against
> it from anybody WITH experience using it?  So, IF "arguments from
> experience" were indeed decisive, *WHY* isn't it in the core?

probably because arguments from people with experience from
hacking on that core (and other python cores) also count.

it's not all about using stuff; someone have to maintain it too...

Cheers /F




From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Jan 12 03:27:13 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 09:27:13 +0100
Subject: is Python fully object oriented ?
References: <20010110184830.13286.00000826@ng-fg1.aol.com> <3A5E5C21.3E036BFE@intelligenesis.net> <3A5E935D.CF641658@dcube-resource.be> <3A5EA074.D5AF4A98@intelligenesis.net> <mailman.979283415.13138.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <93mf820c0t@news1.newsguy.com>

"Issac Trotts" <trotts at mit.edu> wrote in message
news:mailman.979283415.13138.python-list at python.org...
    [snip]
> I don't know if this helps, but it's perfectly legal to use a name other
> than "self" in Python, e.g.,
>
> class SpamChunk:
>   def __init__(s):
>     s.color = 'green'

Yes, but it's a horrid idea to actually _make use_ of this
freedom.  I *strongly* suggest you adhere to whatever
"universal coding conventions and idioms" happen to be
prevalent in the language you're currently using, whenever
you're lucky enough to be using a language where a certain
usage _is_ well-nigh universal.

There are strong 'network externalities' (an economics
term, describing a situation where everybody is better
off by using 'interchangeable/interoperable' "stuff")
in universal coding conventions.  Calling 'self' exactly
that in Python is one such situation... don't "obfuscate"
your code for the sake of saving 3 characters here and
there!-)


Alex





From s2mdalle at titan.vcu.edu  Sat Jan 27 13:48:32 2001
From: s2mdalle at titan.vcu.edu (David Allen)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 18:48:32 GMT
Subject: Tkinter: manipulating data in 'entry' widgets.
References: <mailman.980556332.23522.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4KEc6.4234$xn.1153342@typhoon2.ba-dsg.net>

In article <mailman.980556332.23522.python-list at python.org>, "jerry keeney"
<jerryleekeeney at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Hopefully this is'nt a repeat of an oft discussed item:
> 
> I have a Tkinter program with 3 entry widgets.  I would like to take the
> numbers entered in the first two, total them and display them in the 3rd (or
> even just as a label).
> 
> I believe the idea is to capture the entry with a DoubleVar, but beyond that
> I'm not sure.  
> 
> I have been perusing the various places on the web discussing Tkinter, and I
> cannot find that sort of detail.  Any pointers where I can get this info on
> the web??

What's wrong with this?

entry3.delete(0, 'end')
entry3.insert("%0.2f" % 
              (float(entry1.get()) + 
               float(entry2.get())))

-- 
David Allen
http://opop.nols.com/
----------------------------------------
"As soon as we started programming, we found to our surprise that it wasn't as 
easy to get programs right as we had thought. Debugging had to be discovered. 
I can remember the exact instant when I realized that a large part of my life 
from then on was going to be spent in finding mistakes in my own programs." 
	- Maurice Wilkes discovers debugging, 1949


From j.spies at hccnet.nl  Sun Jan 28 17:57:10 2001
From: j.spies at hccnet.nl (Jaap Spies)
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 23:57:10 +0100
Subject: SIGs
References: <3A72C8A3.C4B4D69A@stroeder.com> <slrn97650f.i1.amk@mira.erols.com> <3A731F26.15461A27@stroeder.com> <slrn978o29.gn.amk@mira.erols.com> <951p9a0mn@news2.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <3A74A3C6.4000105@hccnet.nl>

Alex Martelli wrote:

> "A.M. Kuchling" <amk at mira.erols.com> wrote in message
> news:slrn978o29.gn.amk at mira.erols.com...
>     [snip]
> 
>> In any case, making something a SIG as opposed to just a mailing list
>> will not magically free up more of people's time to work on the SIG's
>> deliverable.  SIGs have sputtered along without produced much of value
>> before; cases in point include the import-sig, locator-sig, plot-sig,
>> and types-sig, which don't seem to have altered the Python landscape
>> much.
> 
> 
> Which reminds me -- is it just me, or does the page at
> http://www.python.org/sigs/ REALLY state that EVERY
> Python SIG has expired except catalog-sig (with 5 more
> months' life to go) and the two perennials meta-sig and
> pythonmac-sig?
> 
> 
> Alex

No. Edu-sig is active!

Jaap Spies



From boud at valdyas.org  Wed Jan 24 01:43:15 2001
From: boud at valdyas.org (Boudewijn Rempt)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 07:43:15 +0100
Subject: Unicode string output
References: <mailman.980094083.22572.python-list@python.org> <PmEa6.8085$AH6.1278344@newsc.telia.net>
Message-ID: <3a6e7683$0$37181$1a0eedbc@dreader2.news.xs4all.nl>

Fredrik Lundh wrote:

> Alexander Kostyrkin wrote:
>> Surprisingly printing a unicode string that contains a Japanese kanji
>> character raises an exception
>> For example
>>
>>     print u"\u55f4"
>> UnicodeError: ASCII encoding error: ordinal not in range(128)
>>
>> Is there any way to overcome the problem?
> 
> If you don't specify what encoding to use on output, Python assumes
> you're an encoding-ignorant american programmer <wink>, and defaults
> to ASCII.
> 
> To use any other encoding, use the encode method:
> 
>     s = ...
>     print s.encode("iso-latin-1")
>     print s.encode("ascii", "ignore")
> 
> Also see the codecs modules:
> http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/module-codecs.html
> 
> Cheers /F
> 

I came across this problem recently, too, and I didn't want to have
to remember to explicitly encode my text everywhere in the application.
But Python doesn't really support setting a default encoding for an
application, only for _all_ of Python on a machine, because 
sys.setdefaultencoding is removed after starting Python.

The solution was to add the following file to site-packages:

sitecustomize.py

import sys

sys.setappdefaultencoding=sys.setdefaultencoding

And call 

import sys
sys.setappdefaultencoding("utf-8")

first thing in the application.


Boudewijn Rempt | http://www.xs4all.nl/~bsarempt/python


From mfletch at tpresence.com  Tue Jan  9 15:29:39 2001
From: mfletch at tpresence.com (Mike Fletcher)
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 15:29:39 -0500 
Subject: mxTools (was Re: why no "do : until"?)
Message-ID: <CC59868A0A76D311B1F50090277B321C1F3795@VRTMAIL>

I've built a parser generator on top of mxTextTools, which was actually a
port from a system originally built on top of the regex module (i.e. re's
precursor).  The basic thing is, you _can_ build just about anything you can
build with mxTextTools using re and some hacking. The question is how much
hacking...

mxTextTools adds the automated generation of parse-tree history to a
text-head-scanning system.  In effect, to duplicate it's effects, you create
low-level RE-style parse-elements (such as seen in Aycock's(sp?) parser)
that you script together at the higher level to create the various group
types for defining a parser (the low-level elements can be anything that
doesn't require returning a repeating series of items).  mxTextTools can do
that scripting using its state-transition table definitions, and as a
result, can run the entire parsing process in C code.  There are some
effects that I've never seen used (your state transitions can be seriously
wacky) that possibly couldn't be achieved with RE, but with sufficient
perversity almost anything can be achieved.

mxTextTools makes it _much_ easier to build a parser, but it's not an actual
requirement.  I like the package, and use it for my packages, but until we
have a lot more modules using mxTextTools (or modules built on top of it), I
can't see including it in the core, it's just not widely-used enough to
require it everywhere.

mxDateTime, on the other hand, is widely applicable (date math in
particular), and might be considered suitable for "core" systems (it defines
a data type which is very widely understood (one of the "fundamental data
types" of many applications), and provides a useful "pythonic" interface to
those types), whereas mxTextTools is a particular engine for text-annotation
that doesn't really exemplify the "normal practice" of parsing systems
(though it's really cool).

Enjoy yourselves,
Mike


-----Original Message-----
From: Fredrik Lundh
To: python-list at python.org
Sent: 1/9/2001 2:45 PM
Subject: Re: mxTools (was Re: why no "do : until"?)

Donn Cave wrote:
> I have never used mxDateTime, so I have 0 cents on that, but I have
> used mxTextTools.  I found it to be efficient and powerful, and ought
> to be useful in a significant number of applications and modules
> that have text to parse -- if it were already available with the
> distribution.

can anyone summarize what mxTextTools can do that you
cannot do with the 're' module?

cheers /F


-- 
http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list



From dbrueck at edgix.com  Mon Jan 29 12:09:32 2001
From: dbrueck at edgix.com (Dave Brueck)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 10:09:32 -0700
Subject: PyArg_Parse vs. PyArg_ParseTuple?
In-Reply-To: <poYc6.30$X6.23266@ruti.visi.com>
Message-ID: <BLEOJGEMBNBNEAKMIFDHAEOBPHAA.dbrueck@edgix.com>

> On Behalf Of Grant Edwards
> Subject: PyArg_Parse vs. PyArg_ParseTuple?

> I was hacking on socketmodule.c, and noticed that in some
> places PyArg_Parse() is used to convert Python data to C data,
> and in other spots PyArg_ParseTuple() is used.
>
> I found the documentation on PyArg_ParseTuple(), but I can't
> find any documentation on PyArg_Parse(). So I'm not 100% sure
> that what I did was "safe".  What is the difference between
> PyArg_Parse and PyArg_ParseTuple?

Hi Grant,

I don't know for _sure_, but it seems like PyArg_Parse is the old style
while PyArg_ParseTuple is the new style of argument passing.

The context in which I remember it is with the PyMethodDef entry for
extension module functions. If the function's PyMethodDef entry has the
METH_VARARGS bit set then use PyArg_ParseTuple (since the PyObject it will
receive really will be a tuple), but with METH_OLDARGS (ie - no bit set) use
PyArg_Parse (the object might be None, an integer object, a string object,
etc).

Hopefully someone will correct me if I'm too far off..

-Dave




From tim.one at home.com  Fri Jan 12 17:02:35 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 17:02:35 -0500
Subject: How robust is Python ?
In-Reply-To: <NDK76.16788$Im.127874@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCGEFBIIAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Donn Cave]
> I guess we've already covered the "try: continue" issue:  "try:
> continue" just isn't supported ....

[Steve Holden]
> Yes, but there doesn't seem to be any inherent reason *why it
> shouldn't* be supported in the future. ...

See SourceForge patch #102989 (Allow 'continue' inside 'try' clause), by
Thomas Wouters.  With some luck, 2.0 implementer laziness will finally be
repaired by Thomas's industry by the time 2.1 comes out (for which schedule,
see PEP 226 on SourceForge).

or-try-jython-i-think-it's-allowed-it-for-years-ly y'rs  - tim




From bup.schaefer at planet-interkom.de  Sat Jan 20 00:16:43 2001
From: bup.schaefer at planet-interkom.de (Bruno Schaefer)
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 05:16:43 -0000
Subject: I (don'  ) will kill my Python
Message-ID: <94b6vr+8av8@eGroups.com>

Hi,
I'am still here ( Sorry Mr. Mark Hammond ) and I don't want to kill 
my Python.

It was not my aim to hurt somebody and sorry to all. But all the 
replies to my message (which came from an outbreak of frustrations) 
are very interesting.
 
All aspects in short:
1. There are many Python users with similar problems
2. The Python developers have to do more in this direction

To improve the popularity of Python and to use it as first programming
language this topic to create standalones is very important.

Young people, starting with programming, take their program on a disk 
and give it to their friends and will say "This is my program! I have 
created that by myself !!!"

And the reality is that most of beginners use M$soft products, that 
means Win$.

Is it the best solution for this problems to say : Go to VB or never 
come back, if Python users are angry about their problems ???

Greeting, 
Bruno Schaefer


(I like my Python !!!)










From sholden at holdenweb.com  Tue Jan 16 02:03:26 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 02:03:26 -0500
Subject: python compiled to native in less than a year?
References: <kcF86.6006$J%.594457@news.flash.net> <Pine.GSO.4.21.0101151106200.7702-100000@z.glue.umd.edu> <8pF86.6015$J%.595435@news.flash.net> <mailman.979595596.4546.python-list@python.org> <3A63E6FF.22EE019C@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <VqS86.6393$Q06.83376@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com>

"Peter Hansen" <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message
news:3A63E6FF.22EE019C at engcorp.com...
> Neil Schemenauer wrote:
> >
> > It used to bother me that Python is so slow.  I don't care much
> > anymore.  I don't know if its the fact that I'm getting older and
> > more mature or if its that machines are getting so fast now that
> > it doesn't really matter.  I guess knowing that I can quite
> > easily write a C extension module helps too.
>
> Perhaps a combination?  I came to Python long enough into its
> life that I can't say it ever bothered me it was slow.  I'd already
> become 'old enough' to stop worrying, had machines fast enough
> that I hardly noticed a change from C, and had become so
> intensely frustrated with maintenance costs of software
> development that Python's vast advantages in that respect
> completely masked any issues of performance.
>

As the cost of  hardware has plummeted, the significant cost element in
developing software has become the "wetware": the analysis of the problem,
its expression in a suitable language, and the maintenance of the code as
requirements change and bugs are found. It no longer makes sense to have
programmers working overtime to submit compilations during the wee small
hours, since each can make use of a network of powerful computers whenever
it is convenient to them.

Python's simplicity is its overriding virtue because it is (relatively) easy
to express most algorithms in Python, and the code is simple enough that
maintenance is rarely a headache.

While it's nice to be know one can "descend" into C to improve efficiency,
in practice I have not yet bothered to climb that particular learning curve
because speed isn't important enough on the problems I work on to justify
the increased cost of programming and maintenance. It's also a joy to have
so much well-written library code (both from the standard distribution and
third parties) to draw on -- remindsme of Isaac Newton's famous remark: "If
I have seen further, it is by standing on the shoulders of giants."

While I may seem shortsighted compared with the bots who contribute to this
newsgroup, having found Python as a programming tool it will take the
development of something quite remarkable to make me feel like giving it up.

Hardware gets faster as I get slower, and nowadays my attitude is that
computers have cycles to spare, whereas my time increases in value with each
passing day.

wondering-why-people-cry-on-my-shoulders-not-stand-on-them-ly y'rs -  steve




From cjc26 at nospam.cornell.edu  Thu Jan 11 23:21:53 2001
From: cjc26 at nospam.cornell.edu (Cliff Crawford)
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 04:21:53 GMT
Subject: Web devel with python. Whats the best route?
References: <mailman.978910629.6814.python-list@python.org> <93cqvi0191h@news1.newsguy.com> <mailman.978985688.26505.python-list@python.org> <93dfft077p@news1.newsguy.com> <mailman.979000510.4052.python-list@python.org> <slrn95ltl8.45d.scarblac@pino.selwerd.nl> <93f4q7$ji4$1@newshost.accu.uu.nl>
Message-ID: <BDv76.43676$_G5.6205644@typhoon.nyroc.rr.com>

* Martijn Faassen <m.faassen at vet.uu.nl> menulis:
| Remco Gerlich <scarblac at pino.selwerd.nl> wrote:
| [knip]
| > Precies. Dit is de Python groep, horen we niet allemaal Nederlands
| > te praten?
| 
| Natuurlijk horen we dat. Nederlands is de natuurlijke taal die het
| best bij Python past, en je ziet Tim Peters de hele tijd verklaringen
| voor Python geven omdat Guido Nederlands is, en zo. Ik heb wat
| belangrijke sleutelwoorden in dit bericht gezet zodat zelfs Amerikanen
| het idee hebben dat ik het ergens over heb. Dus, voorwaards met dat
| Nederlands!

InterTran translates the phrase "Tim Peters" as "[Tim] Godfather".  :)


-- 
Cliff Crawford               http://www.people.cornell.edu/pages/cjc26/
                             print "Just another Python hacker"


From etienne at alias.it  Wed Jan 31 12:35:21 2001
From: etienne at alias.it (etienne at alias.it)
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 17:35:21 GMT
Subject: disabling events
Message-ID: <959ico$m8t$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

hi everybody,
I'm embedding python in a c++ gui for the MacOS.
It seems that the Python interpreter handle events and do not get them
back to the gui.

Is there a way to stop python event handling, at least for a while (i
need this only in a few critical functions), to let the gui handle
correctly its own events???

played a while with MacOS.SetEvdentHandler() with no success.

tnxs a ton
etienne


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From gerson.kurz at t-online.de  Mon Jan  8 12:11:53 2001
From: gerson.kurz at t-online.de (Gerson Kurz)
Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2001 17:11:53 GMT
Subject: Python licensing issues
Message-ID: <3a59f39f.16066282@news.t-online.de>

Sorry, this is definitely not a programmers question, but: if you want
to include Python embedded in your (Open Source) application, what
kind of licensing irks must you keep in mind? do you have to include
all the copyright notices PythonWin shows in the about box? distribute
READMEs? Point to websites? It would be nice if someone could explain
without resorting to too much legalese. 

And how about distributing python20.dll standalone (provided thats
feasible), so that non-programmers don't have to dl a 8MB
distribution.

And does anybody of you know of major differences to be aware of for
BeOpen-Python 2.0 vs. ActiveState-Python 2.0 installed machines? 


From grey at despair.rpglink.com  Fri Jan  5 17:44:20 2001
From: grey at despair.rpglink.com (Steve Lamb)
Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 22:44:20 -0000
Subject: Migrating to perl?
References: <V%c56.4648$of7.221797@news1.atl>, <3Fa56.4580$of7.216286@news1.atl> <mailman.978670867.31055.python-list@python.org> <mailman.978711967.28730.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrn95cji4.ljn.grey@teleute.rpglink.com>

On Sat,  6 Jan 2001 02:33:10 +0200 (IST), Moshe Zadka
<moshez at zadka.site.co.il> wrote:
>Well, there isn't anything like taint, but I've found no use for it.
>In Python, you use real functions to do stuff you do via `` in Perl.
>Compare

    Yes, let's compare a lousy Perl example against a good Python example.

>print $_, "\n" for (split `ls`);

>And

>for file in os.listdir('.'):
>	print file

    and...

opendir(FOO,'.');
@files = readdir(FOO);
closedir(FOO);
$" = "\n";
print(@files);
undef($");

>When trying to list a directory got from a CGI parameter:

>print $_, "\n" for (split `ls $var`); # security risk: first check $var, -T

>for file in os.listdir(var): # no security risk here
>	print file

opendir(FOO,$var);
@files = readdir(FOO);
closedir(FOO);
$" = "\n";
print(@files);
undef($");

    No security risk there.  

    Just because Perl has the backticks means you have to use them, especially
for trivial things like ls, date, etc!  This is the biggest problem with most
perl scripts I see.  People are lazy and don't find out the internal way to do
something correctly so they just hang shell all over the place.

    Would you say that there is a problem with Python because one can do silly
things with os.open?

>Similarily for other thing. AFAIK, the above is the idiomatic Perl to
>do it. Not to mention wildcard interpretation: it's done directly
>by Python, not passed to shell.

    It most certainly is not idiomatic Perl to do it!  It may be lousy,
beginner perl code to do it, but it is certainly not how I would consider a
fair amount of Perl programmers (not beginners) to do things.

-- 
         Steve C. Lamb         | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your
         ICQ: 5107343          | main connection to the switchboard of souls.
-------------------------------+---------------------------------------------


From echuck at mindspring.com  Fri Jan 26 18:30:58 2001
From: echuck at mindspring.com (echuck at mindspring.com)
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 23:30:58 GMT
Subject: marshal doesn't work with "file-like" objects
References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010126135016.029c4d90@mail.mindspring.com> <mailman.980540325.4462.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <94t1bi$m73$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

In article <mailman.980540325.4462.python-list at python.org>,
  "Tim Peters" <tim.one at home.com> wrote:
> [Chuck Esterbrook]
> >  >>> from StringIO import StringIO
> >  >>> f = StringIO()
> >  >>> f.write('hi')
> >  >>> import marshal
> >  >>> marshal.dump(1, f)
> > Traceback (most recent call last):
> >    File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
> > TypeError: marshal.dump() 2nd arg must be file
> >
> > So is that a bug, a flaw or a feature?
>
> It's functioning as documented (read the docs), and is also
functioning as
> designed (read next sentence), so it's not a bug.  As the docs say,
marshal
> is primarily intended for Python's own use in reading and
writing .pyc and
> .pyo files, and, as the docs don't say, to make it as fast as
possible for
> those purposes it doesn't support any luxuries.  So it's a feature
from
> Python's POV, but a flaw from yours.  Python wins <0.9 wink>.
>
> You could do this instead:
>
>     filelikeobject.write(marshal.dumps(object))
>
> Reading a sequence of marshaled values back from a file-like object
is more
> of a puzzle!

Does anyone really believe that there is any difference in performance?
Supporting file-like objects would add the overhead of a message pass.
But what's taking place here is file I/O that easily ranges from 1K to
40K (according to my dir *.pyc).

I seriously doubt that if message passing were suddenly employed [a]
anyone would notice and [b] any Python benchmarks would change.

I win <0.95 wink>.


-Chuck


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From phil at river-bank.demon.co.uk  Sun Jan 21 09:43:59 2001
From: phil at river-bank.demon.co.uk (phil at river-bank.demon.co.uk)
Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 14:43:59 -0000
Subject: Blackadder - any opinions?
In-Reply-To: <94e923$2qp$1@newsreaderm1.core.theplanet.net>
Message-ID: <94esjf+j0mv@eGroups.com>

"Franz GEIGER" <fgeiger at d...> wrote:
> Had a quick look on it at their site, but miss a debugger. While I'm
waiting
> for Komodo to be released as a 1.0 version I keep using PythonWin.
This
> holds for dev on NT. I don't know how dev'ing on Unix, though.

The first beta of BlackAdder (and a demo version) should be ready
around the middle of next week. It includes a debugger.

> Best reagrds
> Franz
> 
> "Satheesh Babu" <vsbabu at e...> wrote in message
> news:94c6cu$hl2$1 at bob.news.rcn.net...
> > Hi,
> >
> > I saw this Python IDE at
> > http://www.thekompany.com/products/blackadder/
> >
> > Personal edition is $49. Just wondering anybody had any
> > experience with that before I think of buying it.
> >
> > Screenshots look good though the site is damn too slow!

Sorry - we got /.ed.

Phil




From dsh8290 at rit.edu  Mon Jan  8 05:07:07 2001
From: dsh8290 at rit.edu (D-Man)
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 05:07:07 -0500
Subject: Thank you (was Re: Should I learn Python or Java?)
In-Reply-To: <3A593236.6331BE0C@engcorp.com>; from peter@engcorp.com on Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 10:21:26PM -0500
References: <HEO56.5504$y9.2881293@typhoon.we.rr.com> <G2V56.5826$y9.3184141@typhoon.we.rr.com> <mailman.978901087.32745.python-list@python.org> <3A593236.6331BE0C@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <20010108050707.A667@rit.edu>

On Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 10:21:26PM -0500, Peter Hansen wrote:
| D-Man wrote:
| > 
| > I am currently employed to do Java development.  (I'm a co-op, still
| > in college so if anyone knows of a company that does python
| > development, let me know)  
| 
| As someone who hires programmers, including co-ops, I would
| recommend you be careful focusing on companies who demand
| experience with specific languages.  Although some companies 
| hire people for their language-specific experience, in 
| cases of general-purpose programming this is misguided.
| (For things like DB work, SQL would of course be one
| requirement.)
| 
| My company now does a significant amount of Python development,
| but I would still not strongly favour a "Python developer"
| over a developer with a broad background in a variety of
| languages, at different levels and in different application
| areas.  The only thing 'Python' would do on a resume is 
| slightly increase the time I would spend looking at the 
| candidate (out of several hundred resumes I've seen in 
| the last six months only one included the word Python.)
| 
| Or perhaps you were just expressing a strong desire to 
| work for a progressive company that recognizes the benefits
| of Python and provides an opportunity for people to work
| with it.  I'd try the same thing in your shoes.  Another 
| thing I'd do, though, would be to learn Python well 
| enough and broadly enough to be able to find novel 
| and useful ways to apply it in _any_ company I worked
| for.  Given how easy it has been to demonstrate the
| advantages of Python over many alternatives, I would
| think you could successfully build yourself an opportunity
| to program in Python in your next company.
| 

This is what I would like.  I have experience with Eiffel, C, C++,
and Java and have done some work with Lisp, Scheme, and Perl (in
school) and learned Python on my own.  While I can use a variety of
languages, Python is my favorite.  (Unless I need to write a device
driver or something where C/C++ would fit much better ;-))

The company I am working for now uses Java for the SDK and runtime
library.  Part of the purpose of the product is to generate a Java
class that our customers can use to do screen scraping from Java
apps/applets.  Due to the nature of this product and its target
audience it is rather tied to Java.


-D




From amk at mira.erols.com  Wed Jan 17 21:08:21 2001
From: amk at mira.erols.com (A.M. Kuchling)
Date: 18 Jan 2001 02:08:21 GMT
Subject: Literate programming in Python
References: <MIo96.76568$eB2.6160368@news.infostrada.it>
Message-ID: <slrn96ckqk.178.amk@207-172-111-159.s159.tnt1.ann.va.dialup.rcn.com>

On Wed, 17 Jan 2001 22:07:40 GMT, Giuseppe Bilotta <oblomov at freemail.it> wrote:
>I'd like to know if there exist a "literate programming" language for
>Python (possibly using the same structure/conventions of WEB/CWEB,
>the first literate programming languages, developed by D.E.Knuth and
>Silvio Levy, resp. for Pascal and C/C++).

There's Interscript by Max Skaller, at interscript.sourceforge.net;
the Web site doesn't seem to have any examples, so I don't know if its
syntax is CWEBish.  

Also, do a Google search for py2tex, a program that typesets Python
code very nicely and allows putting TeX commands into comments.  This
means there's no tangle phase (source->compilable/executable code),
and the document produced by typesetting it will be in the same order
as the Python code.  Personally I like this; when I tried CWEB, it was
too difficult to keep both two different orderings -- the expository
order for human readers, and the source file order so that the tangled
file would actually compile.

(Hmm... py2tex hasn't been maintained for a while.  I'm greatly
tempted to take it over...)

--amk


From andres.corrada at mpingo.com  Thu Jan  4 11:24:37 2001
From: andres.corrada at mpingo.com (andres.corrada)
Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 16:24:37 GMT
Subject: AMK's ZODB package on Win32
Message-ID: <20010104162437.17325.qmail@dorado.mamey.com>

Can Kuchling's ZODB package be used under Win32? Does someone have
experience doing this?

--------------------------------------------------
Andres Corrada-Emmanuel  andres.corrada at mpingo.com
--------------------------------------------------



From debl at SpamNonotheworld.com  Mon Jan  8 01:40:46 2001
From: debl at SpamNonotheworld.com (David Lees)
Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2001 06:40:46 GMT
Subject: ActivePython Installer for 2.0?
References: <3A595540.9D34A5AA@NONOSpammytheworld.com> <u%c66.653$_e7.37162@news2.atl>
Message-ID: <3A5960F1.FBEDA567@SpamNonotheworld.com>

Wow, that was a fast response.

I just downloaded it and tried it and it installs (or would if I let it
install over the current 2.0).

Thanks Joel.

david lees


Joel Ricker wrote:
> 
> David Lees wrote in message <3A595540.9D34A5AA at NONOSpammytheworld.com>...
> 
> >When I double click on it I get a message that says I need a newer
> >version of the Windows Installer service?  I am using Win98SE.  What do
> >I need to get this '.msi' extension to install?
> 
> It should be here:
> http://www.activestate.com/download/contrib/Microsoft/9x/InstMsi.exe
> 
> >Anyway, I am up and running again by downloading BeOpenPython2.0 and
> >Mark Hammonds Win32all-135.  However, it would be handy for new machines
> >to use the single Active Python.
> 
> Is Mark Hammonds Win32all-135 the Interactive Windows Developer program?  If
> so, that means it is available as a seperate package from ActivePython or
> python in general?
> --
> I have been Perl-Free for 3 Days, 2 Hours, 13 Minutes, and 28 Seconds.
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> Joel Ricker   joejava at dragoncat.net
>   Just Another Python Hacker


From richard_chamberlainREMOVE at ntlworld.com  Mon Jan 15 14:30:17 2001
From: richard_chamberlainREMOVE at ntlworld.com (Richard Chamberlain)
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 19:30:17 -0000
Subject: Uploading a file using HTTP
References: <mailman.979555822.8864.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <78I86.4377$ye3.115354@news2-win.server.ntlworld.com>

Have a look in http://www.vex.net/parnassus/

Do a search under upload. There are a couple of examples of file uploading.

Richard
  <vonWedel at lfpt.rwth-aachen.de> wrote in message news:mailman.979555822.8864.python-list at python.org...

  Hi, 

  I want to upload a file using httplib -- how do I do this? 

  I know how to access the file in a _request_ of the 
  server, but how can I transmit a file from the client 
  to the server using the HTTP library implementation 
  of Python? 

  TNX for help, 
  Lars 

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From cpsoct at my-deja.com  Mon Jan 22 07:07:17 2001
From: cpsoct at my-deja.com (cpsoct at my-deja.com)
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 12:07:17 GMT
Subject: how to test for nesting inlist
References: <94bhte$4iv$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <94bvgu0kt4@news2.newsguy.com> <94ea6k$4uc$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <mailman.980119825.5586.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <94h7pi$b86$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

What are list comprehensions? I have looked and looked and looked in
books and on www.python.org and i see no mention of these. Is this
something new? or i am i just getting tripped up by the jargon and list
compreshensions are something i already know by another name? I am
confused. Hmm.....

cheers,
kevin parks
seoul, korea
cpsoct at lycos.com


In article <mailman.980119825.5586.python-list at python.org>,
  Paul Prescod <paulp at ActiveState.com> wrote:
> cpsoct at my-deja.com wrote:
> >
> > Thanks. and here i get a chance to learn something
> > recursion hurts my brain. map does everything but make coffee
> > doesn't it. It is amazing to me how many places map and filter
> > show up. i used map with None to lace lists last night. amazing
> > the things you can do in python.....
>
> You can do a lot with list comprehensions that otherwise would be done
> with map and I think that the list comprehension versions are often
much
> more readable.
>
>  Paul Prescod
>
>


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From sandipan at vsnl.com  Sat Jan 13 05:37:42 2001
From: sandipan at vsnl.com (Sandipan Gangopadhyay)
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 16:07:42 +0530
Subject: How robust is Python ?
References: <03d501c07cad$3a8a4320$020000c3@node02>, <9358nn$3c5$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, <9354f9$vbi$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, <LOBBJMHOIFOLFIPFANHJAEJFCHAA.zope@TheWebsons.com> <mailman.978716227.31692.python-list@python.org> <mailman.978721929.3640.python-list@python.org> <20010106103938.8FCAFA84F@darjeeling.zadka.site.co.il> <03d501c07cad$3a8a4320$020000c3@node02> <20010113093645.012A0A82D@darjeeling.zadka.site.co.il> <20010113023253.F1005@xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <002601c07d4c$dcea4120$020000c3@node02>

Thanks for the suggestions.

Regards,

Sandipan

----- Original Message -----
From: "Thomas Wouters" <thomas at xs4all.net>
To: "Moshe Zadka" <moshez at zadka.site.co.il>
Cc: "Sandipan Gangopadhyay" <sandipan at vsnl.com>; <python-list at python.org>
Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2001 7:02 AM
Subject: Re: How robust is Python ?


> On Sat, Jan 13, 2001 at 11:36:45AM +0200, Moshe Zadka wrote:
> > On Fri, 12 Jan 2001, "Sandipan Gangopadhyay" <sandipan at vsnl.com> wrote:
>
> > > If I try a catch-all except, continue hits except on the outer level
rather
> > > than while. Probably the reason that it results in syntax error.
> > >
> > > while binAliveMarker:
> > >   try:
> > >     if binWannaStartAgainLater:
> > >       time.sleep(1)
> > >       continue
> > >     work code ...
> > >   except:
> > >     pass
> > >
> > > Any suggestions to make it work with continue (or an alternative) ?
Apart
> > > from removing continue completely by making the work code inside an
else ?
>
> > I'm afraid that's your only alternative, unless you can afford to wait
> > for Python 2.1 or switch to JPython, both of which support continue
> > inside a try clause.
>
> Moshe is forgetting:
>
> ContinueMePleaseError = "please continue" # or a class if you prefer that
> while binAliveMarker:
>   try:
>     if binWannaStartAgainLater:
>       time.sleep(1)
>       raise ContinueMePleaseError
>     work code ...
>   except ContinueMePleaseError:
>     continue
>   except:
>     pass
>
> which is the usual way of working around it (other than reworking your
code,
> that is.)
>
> --
> Thomas Wouters <thomas at xs4all.net>
>
> Hi! I'm a .signature virus! copy me into your .signature file to help me
spread!
>




From dsh8290 at rit.edu  Mon Jan 29 11:56:33 2001
From: dsh8290 at rit.edu (D-Man)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 11:56:33 -0500
Subject: PSU uses emacs?
In-Reply-To: <20010129012920.B14763@glacier.fnational.com>; from nas@arctrix.com on Mon, Jan 29, 2001 at 01:29:20AM -0800
References: <3A67CDC3.7EACB07D@Lugoj.Com> <9490t009on@news2.newsguy.com> <3a685ef2.3403798@reading.news.pipex.net> <949rii0a76@news1.newsguy.com> <3a6eb2fa.2347467@reading.news.pipex.net> <mailman.980374351.22360.python-list@python.org> <3a7542d7.2738309@reading.news.pipex.net> <3A758F88.3349FDAA@attglobal.net> <"from rol9999"@attglobal.net> <20010129012920.B14763@glacier.fnational.com>
Message-ID: <20010129115633.C16071@harmony.cs.rit.edu>

On Mon, Jan 29, 2001 at 01:29:20AM -0800, Neil Schemenauer wrote:
| On Mon, Jan 29, 2001 at 10:43:04AM -0500, Roland Schlenker wrote:
| > It does have a nasty habit of moving a line starting with a # to the
| > first cloumn. I have not figured how to stop that yet.
| 
| Perhaps something in "help cinkeys" will be of use.

It is a feature for C programmers.  I don't know if it is still true,
but I believe that preproccessor directives had to start in column 1
in the old days.  (preprocessor directives start with '#')  I recall
seeing something in the docs about turning off this feature for
Python/perl/bash/etc languages that use '#' for comments, but I didn't
read deep enough to remember what it said.

| 
|   Neil
| 

-D




From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Tue Jan  2 17:07:38 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2001 23:07:38 +0100
Subject: (no subject)
References: <mailman.978436922.27803.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <92tk09174s@news1.newsguy.com>

<Patrick.Bussi at space.alcatel.fr> wrote in message
news:mailman.978436922.27803.python-list at python.org...
>
> Hello. Happy new Year.
>
> Basically, my need is to use the "seek" method on data retrieved from an
URL.
> The Python Reference Manual indicates that this method cannot be used
directly
> after opening the URL with urllib. Therefore I (unsuccessfully) tried
other
> ways.
>
> ---- First, I tried the extended form of the "print" statement, after
carefully
> reading the 6.6 of Python Reference Manual.
>
> The interpreter replied the following :
>
>     print >> indexpage, f1.read
>              ^
> SyntaxError: invalid syntax
>
> where :
> "indexpage" was a "true" file opened with "w" parameter, before the
occurrence
> of this statement,
> "f1" was the network object obtained by the urllib.urlopen() function.

You're trying to copy all data from f1 to the file indexpage?  If your
Python does not grok the horrid 'print>>' syntax, you may be using
release 1.5.2 or earlier.  But, anyway, you don't need that -- simple
method write of fileobject will do; and you do need parentheses
after 'f1.read' to CALL the function, else you're trying to deal with
the function object itself.  In short:

    indexpage.write(f1.read())

should do what you seem to require.


Alex





From dan.rolander at marriott.com  Fri Jan 19 04:10:57 2001
From: dan.rolander at marriott.com (Dan Rolander)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 04:10:57 -0500
Subject: little standalone windows game
References: <anS96.74518$y9.13600919@typhoon.we.rr.com>
Message-ID: <004d01c081f7$bc24fde0$11260340@yin>

Hi Pete,

I'd be interested in hearing about how your solution works and seeing the
code. I too have been searching for a way to create 2.0 standalones
(particularly for Win32) for awhile now. Gordon McMillan's Installer is cool
when it works but has a number of difficulties with Python 2.0. What I've
finally come up with is a way to identify exactly which Python files are
used by a script, by capturing all of the dll loads and file openings with a
commercial product called Reveal (http://www.addisonsw.com) and having it
generate a component manifest. Then I create a minimal Python distribution
with just the files necessary to support that script, create a toplevel
script which when run points sys.path to the private distribution
directories, and I package everything into a self-extracting exe.

Python is a great language and the full install with all of the libraries is
a very powerful thing, but the difficulty in creating small standalone
distributions is (I think) the biggest issue.

Dan

----- Original Message -----
From: "Pete Shinners" <shredwheat at mediaone.net>
Newsgroups: comp.lang.python
To: <python-list at python.org>
Sent: Friday, January 19, 2001 2:52 AM
Subject: little standalone windows game


> i've been hunting solutions to get standalone running
> executables on windows. (hmm, not alone, am i?)
>
> after finding that nothing works for 2.0, i went ahead
> and started working out my own solution. i started with
> the nice project by Neil Schemenauer for a standalone
> python 1.5.
>
> i took the work there and upped everything to work with
> 2.0, then threw my little pygame project into it to see
> what happens.
>
> the good news is it all works. it doesn't really turn
> python into a single .EXE, but it does create a set of
> files that can run your python code standalone.
>
> the final installer for my test game, "Aliens" is here;
> http://pygame.seul.org/ftp/Aliens_Setup.exe
>
>
> it sounds like enough people are interested in something
> like this. i'm planning to release a 'skeleton' version of
> this type of package so anyone can release a python program
> like this. this solution isn't too pretty for small little
> utilities, but for bigger projects it seems to balance a
> bit nicer.
>
> unix users aren't in the cold, the aliens example is included
> with the pygame install. more info at http://pygame.seul.org
>
>
>
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>




From mamoonk at nortelnetworks.com  Wed Jan 24 15:36:38 2001
From: mamoonk at nortelnetworks.com (Mamoon Khan)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 15:36:38 -0500
Subject: Running program in background
Message-ID: <C9A8E1D07093D111B76A0000F8C9918A05D90103@zrtpd003.us.nortel.com>



The only way of running a program in the background in NT and I presume you
are talking about NT is to run it as a service.  You can find some utility
that
can run a program as a service on NT in the Resource Kit.


cheers

Mamoon

I am building a program for use on Windows and Linux and I don't want
the user to have it on their taskbar all the time getting in their way,
my problem is that I don't know how to run a program in the background
on Windows, I have used os.fork on Linux but this doesn't work on
Windows....

Thanks in advance :-)

Shelley

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From tim.one at home.com  Thu Jan 25 04:15:26 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 04:15:26 -0500
Subject: beep again
In-Reply-To: <20010125003833.E962@xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCAECAILAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Thomas Wouters]
> How do you think us unsuspecting Linux users felt when we were
> just normally compiling Python 2.0, not listening to music for
> a change, run make test, and suddently the too-loud speakers
> yell 'NOBODY EXPECTS THE SPANISH INQUISITION!' ? Let me tell you,
> I nearly had a coronary the first time it happened to me :)

I understand.  I have the same reaction whenever I'm at Guido's house and
he's testing Python on Linux.  It's exceedingly annoying.  I think he likes
it that way, too <wink>.

> Apparently, the times I compiled Python on my office PC, from home,
> I scared a few of my colleagues and an innocent cleaning lady,
> too... nowadays I make sure to tune down the sound before running
> make test
> :)

Oh, Thomas.  There's something I have to pass on to you, while there's still
time to save you from great harm.  This is a profound inter-cultural truth:
there is no such thing as an innocent cleaning lady.

trust-me-i'm-older-than-you-and-probably-much-dirtier-too-ly y'rs  - tim




From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Wed Jan  3 07:54:25 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2001 13:54:25 +0100
Subject: why no "do : until"?
References: <92jj3j$ff7$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <92m9pm$d19$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <B3z36.122$9s1.18804@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com> <3A4EC5B1.8912E571@engcorp.com> <x8G36.156$9s1.31209@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com> <3A4F4B4D.ECD6B172@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <92v7g502oh4@news2.newsguy.com>

"Peter Hansen" <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message
news:3A4F4B4D.ECD6B172 at engcorp.com...
    [snip]
> I can see your point (remarkable, given this thread, isn't it? :-).  I
> guess I consider the "block" to be everything except the code that allows
> entry into the block.  Within the block I might have multiple exit

So what about:
    try:
        <suite1>
    except something:
        <suite2>
and so on?  Would you like it better if the 'except' was indented?  It's
NOT, after all, 'code that allows entry' in the "block" (overall try/except
statement).


Alex





From m.wilson at bibliocraft.com  Tue Jan  9 23:12:31 2001
From: m.wilson at bibliocraft.com (Mark Wilson)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 04:12:31 -0000
Subject: aluminium profile made in China
Message-ID: <015b01c07abb$aea38940$47824ac3@mwdell1>

Hmmm

this would obviously be useful for all those snakes we keep.

Mark


>Dear Sir or Madam,
>    We are taking the liberty to e-mail this message. If
you find it to be
[snip]
>Guangdong Jianmei Aluminum Shapes Factory





From pen_man at my-deja.com  Thu Jan 18 23:17:14 2001
From: pen_man at my-deja.com (penman)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 04:17:14 GMT
Subject: generating simple graphs and chart images in python
References: <aVK96.3220$tD2.216083@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <948f45$ihd$1@nnrp1.deja.com>


"Doug Fort" <dougfort at downright.com> wrote in message
news:A6N96.9999$Sl.519684 at iad-read.news.verio.net...
> We use PIL (Python Imaging Library) from http://www.secretlabs.com
>
> I have attached our Graph base class and the PyUnit test file as an
example
> of a simple graph.
>
> --
> Doug Fort
> Senior Meat Manager
> Downright Software LLC
> doug.fort at downright.com
>

Doug Fort seems to have posted a code snippet, which I'm interested to
have a look at, but it doesn't show up here. Is there any problem with
my news server? Has anyone seen the posting?

If you could send me the code to my e-mail, it will be greatly
appreciated.

Thnks.


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From moshez at zadka.site.co.il  Wed Jan 17 20:27:39 2001
From: moshez at zadka.site.co.il (Moshe Zadka)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 03:27:39 +0200 (IST)
Subject: Securing passwords stored inside of a database field using Python
In-Reply-To: <20010117165350.A24421@yetix.sz-sb.de>
References: <20010117165350.A24421@yetix.sz-sb.de>, <NKh96.874$eI2.31689@NewsReader> <Pine.LNX.4.30.0101171749020.28607-100000@fep132.fep.ru>
Message-ID: <20010118012739.CF619A83E@darjeeling.zadka.site.co.il>

On Wed, 17 Jan 2001, Andreas Jung <andreas at andreas-jung.com> wrote:

> When it is neccessary to decrypt stored passwords you could try an algorithm
> like IDEA. Maybe take a look at the mxCrypto or amkCrypto package for Python.
> They implement the most popular crypto algorithms. But take care of the
> US export controls for encryption software.

A bigger problem might be patents: IDEA, for example, is patented.
-- 
Moshe Zadka <sig at zadka.site.co.il>
This is a signature anti-virus. 
Please stop the spread of signature viruses!



From tyler at tylereaves.com  Sat Jan 13 01:42:23 2001
From: tyler at tylereaves.com (Tyler Eaves)
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 06:42:23 GMT
Subject: making a string copy of a list
References: <slrn95vuqg.1pa.warlock@gargoyle.myth>
Message-ID: <3a5ff99b.3312857@news.earthlink.net>

this should work: (Note: Code not actually tested....)

yourstring=''
for x in yourlist:
	yourstring=yourstring+str(x)+','
#Remove that last comma
yourstring=yourstring[:-1]

On Fri, 12 Jan 2001 22:53:04 -0800, warlock at eskimo.com (Jim
Richardson) wrote:

>OK, I swear I've looked for this, but how do I make a copy of a list, into a
>string, complete with commas seperating the entries in the list? 
>
>
>
>-- 
>Jim Richardson
>	Anarchist, pagan and proud of it
>WWW.eskimo.com/~warlock
>	Linux, because life's too short for a buggy OS.
>



From jepler at inetnebr.com  Sun Jan 28 22:14:35 2001
From: jepler at inetnebr.com (Jeff Epler)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 03:14:35 GMT
Subject: invalid-token syntax hook (was Re: Hack request: rational numbers)
References: <mailman.980590234.29036.python-list@python.org> <950vg1026tu@news2.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <slrn979o0q.29m.jepler@potty.housenet>

On Sun, 28 Jan 2001 10:26:03 +0100, Alex Martelli
 <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote:
>"Tim Peters" <tim.one at home.com> wrote in message
>news:mailman.980590234.29036.python-list at python.org...
>    [snip]
>> That said, I believe your only hope of getting new literal syntax is to
>> embed it in a general proposal.  Some notation for rational literals is
>just
>> one of an unbounded number of similar desires.  Without a general scheme
>for
>
>What I was thinking, too.  So what about the "invalid-token syntax
>error hook" idea -- whenever the compiler is about to raise a
>SyntaxError because of an invalid token ('3r','@@x',etc), if
>sys.invalidTokenHook (or something of that ilk) is set to some
>callable, that callable is invoked, passed the invalid-token string,
>and given a chance to either return None (confirming that, yes, it
>IS a syntax error) or a tuple (possibly empty or singleton) of tokens
>to be used instead.

Why not go all the way and make the whole Python grammar extensible
in Python?  I'm currently working on a project, Mobius Python, which
offers such an extensible version of the Python grammar.  It could easily
implement the "rational number" proposal, I believe.

Mobius Python takes a lot of existing pieces (the tokenize module,
Tools/compiler, and the spark parser toolkit) and puts them together so
that you can register your extended syntax, associate it with an extension
for the source and bytecode versions, and then 'import' scripts in this
language just like normal.

http://sourceforge.net/projects/mobiuspython/

I think the CVS tree is outdated (sourceforge still doesn't have my cvs
access sorted out, but a co-developer has committed an older version of
the code) but in my local tree, the real need is for support for the
full 2.0 language, documentation on the various steps needed to write
your extended grammar, and a proper test suite.

The main drawback is that it is quite slow to perform all these steps
in Python.

Jeff
jepler at inetnebr.com


From phd at phd.pp.ru  Sat Jan 27 07:58:21 2001
From: phd at phd.pp.ru (Oleg Broytmann)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 15:58:21 +0300 (MSK)
Subject: Parsing an mbox mail file
In-Reply-To: <20g47ts24jd075hhv7bf22fadqs0km3ff3@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0101271557350.1435-100000@fep132.fep.ru>

On Sat, 27 Jan 2001, Sheila King wrote:
> If I use the mailbox module, and use mailboxInstance.next(), it will skip
> right over the message body to the next message's header. The whole reason I'm
> wanting to use the mailbox module, is so that I can easily get to the next
> message in the file, and get it's headers. So, I definitely want to use the
> "next()" command. How can I read the message body in between calls to next?

#! /usr/local/bin/python -O


import sys, os
infile = open(sys.argv[1], 'r')

from mailbox import UnixMailbox
mbox = UnixMailbox(infile)

n = 1
while 1:
   pos = infile.tell()
   from_ = infile.readline() # UnixMailbox ate the field From_ - but I want to preserve it
   infile.seek(pos)

   msg = mbox.next()
   if msg is None: break

   sys.stdout.write("%sProcessing message N%d" % (chr(13), n))
   sys.stdout.flush()
   n = n + 1

   fp = msg.fp
   fp.seek(0) # to the very beginning

   outfile = open("_tmp", 'w')
   outfile.write(from_)
   outfile.write(fp.read()) # write the entire body at once
   outfile.close()

   os.system("%s _tmp >>error.log 2>&1" % sys.argv[2])

infile.close()
print
os.remove("_tmp")

Oleg.
----
     Oleg Broytmann            http://phd.pp.ru/            phd at phd.pp.ru
           Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN.




From jasonic at nomadicsltd.com  Tue Jan 30 18:59:00 2001
From: jasonic at nomadicsltd.com (Jason Cunliffe)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 18:59:00 -0500
Subject: slow joinings of strings
References: <87ofwpnrpp.fsf@losthighway.ahoj.pl> <3A76B5F4.A0D1E117@schlund.de> <87k87dnr77.fsf@losthighway.ahoj.pl> <mailman.980860656.21229.python-list@python.org> <87g0i1nofw.fsf@losthighway.ahoj.pl>
Message-ID: <t7el321p2bsp53@corp.supernews.com>

Karol Bryd <kbryd at losthighway._nospam_eu.org> wrote:
> Thomas Wouters <thomas at xs4all.net> writes:
>
> > Have you considered using the rfc822 module, or one of the MIME-parsing
> > packages ? There's 'mimetools' in the standard library, there's mimectl
as a
> > separate module (http://starship.python.net/~arcege/modules/) and Barry
> > Warsaw started work on something he has given the rather uninspiring
name
> > 'mimelib': http://barry.wooz.org/software/pyware.html
>
> Thank you all for answers, now it runs like a flash :-)

Karol

Which solution did you use to get it working to your satisfaction?

+++> sample code postings always appreciated when problems are solved:-)

--Jason
__________________________________________________
Jason CUNLIFFE = NOMADICS['Interactive Art and Technology']




From mspal at sangria.harvard.edu  Sun Jan 21 13:59:54 2001
From: mspal at sangria.harvard.edu (Michael Spalinski)
Date: 21 Jan 2001 13:59:54 -0500
Subject: Python and Industry, IBM I'm afraid
References: <20010111172342.10148.00000934@ng-ca1.aol.com> <HnO86.78962$_G5.11779533@typhoon.nyroc.rr.com> <3A63D9E8.F9B74ACE@mjs400.co.uk> <gv%86.19$eI2.9424@ruti.visi.com> <p6qpuhhq18r.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de> <slrn96kr26.14m.ssthapa@ntcs-ip45.uchicago.edu>
Message-ID: <m366j87mtx.fsf@schwinger.harvard.edu>

>>>>> "someone" ==   <ssthapa at harper.uchicago.edu> writes:

    someone> Martin von Loewis <loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de> wrote:
    >> grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards) writes:
    >> 
    >>> How many Universities teach Python?
    >>  I don't have a number, but I know that I do.

    someone>     I know at least some of the classes at the University of
    someone> Chicago encourage or use python (e.g. Network Programming) but
    someone> I think that's because David Beazley was teaching it.

One of the Core courses at Harvard uses Python, take a look here:

	http://www.courses.fas.harvard.edu/~qr20/

--M.


From anderson at boi.hp.com  Fri Jan 26 09:42:42 2001
From: anderson at boi.hp.com (Bill Anderson)
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 07:42:42 -0700
Subject: ZOPE : Zcatalog
References: <94pib3$1e2t$1@news5.isdnet.net> <t71aa9t431sjd5@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <3A718CE2.36505760@boi.hp.com>

Jason Cunliffe wrote:
> 
> Fabien Germain <fabien.germain at campuslingua.com> wrote in message
> news:94pib3$1e2t$1 at news5.isdnet.net...
> > Hello,
> >
> > First, is there a NG only for Zope ?
> 
> Alas no. But there are very active mailing lists. [high signal to noise]
> 
> Since Digital Creation have a very feeble sense of web site
> usability/design, this essential liink is buried 3 levels down at:
> 
> http://www.zope.org/Resources/MailingLists


Or in the Community section on the first page at http://www.zope.org,
where it says "Mailing Lists". :^)=

-- 
Bill Anderson               Linux Specialist
Modular Network Storage     R&D           
Random Quote:
    Portable: survives system reboot.


From tim.one at home.com  Fri Jan 26 02:31:42 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 02:31:42 -0500
Subject: SourceForge problems
In-Reply-To: <m3zogfxskd.fsf@atrus.jesus.cam.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCAEFOILAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Michael Hudson]
> I've been waiting until they [SourceForge] work out which end of
> the power cable goes in the mains[1] before submitting mine...
>
> Cheers,
> M.
>
> [1] This is too harsh.  Oh well.

Actually, it's too English.  Nobody in America has any idea how devasting
you've been.  I only caught it because some of my programming was
contributed by the MU5 dataflow blokes at Manchester.

don't-even-try-discussing-hot-steaming-faggots<wink>-ly y'rs - tim




From neilh at scintilla.org  Sat Jan 27 21:09:28 2001
From: neilh at scintilla.org (Neil Hodgson)
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 02:09:28 GMT
Subject: [Off topic] allowed to put Python material on the Web?
References: <mailman.980634213.15110.python-list@python.org> <t76rcujhrg4aa0@corp.supernews.com> <g5u67tsp6qvbuqf8glutb44bbpvbk97cg0@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <sbLc6.87890$xW4.674642@news-server.bigpond.net.au>

Sheila King:
> I would say, you definitely need to get author's permissions before
publishing
> in a book. I'm not a lawyer, but I would be plenty ticked off if someone
were
> selling my advice, examples and code without asking my permission! (And I
> might reasonably deny it. Depends on the code, of course.)

   Maybe I need to start giving explicit permissions at the end of each
message:

--
All material created by me in this article is in the public domain.
Neil




From nospam at mega-nerd.com  Fri Jan 26 08:59:24 2001
From: nospam at mega-nerd.com (Erik de Castro Lopo)
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 13:59:24 GMT
Subject: xor operator?
References: <mailman.980513551.5948.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3A717FAE.2C20AF84@mega-nerd.com>

Def P wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I notice that there doesn't seem to be a boolean xor operator in Python. Does
> someone know the reasons behind this?

Hmm,

    Python 2.0 (#6, Jan 26 2001, 11:27:57) 
    [GCC 2.95.2 19991024 (release)] on linux2
    Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
    >>> "%x" % (0x2^0xF)
    'd'
    >>> "%x" % (0xd^0xF)
    '2'

Seems to work for me :-).

Erik
-- 
+----------------------------------------------------------+
  Erik de Castro Lopo  nospam at mega-nerd.com (Yes its valid)
+----------------------------------------------------------+
Microsoft is not the answer.
Microsoft is the question. NO is the answer.


From sheila at thinkspot.net  Sun Jan 14 22:12:04 2001
From: sheila at thinkspot.net (Sheila King)
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 03:12:04 GMT
Subject: Help with Python install
Message-ID: <rkp46t8atkoabsmu7v159sm32c0mslp40p@4ax.com>

My web host offers Python 1.5.1. It is not possible for the host to upgrade at
this time, because it would require an entire rebuild of the server core (the
servers are highly customized).

But I really wanted to use a more recent version. I was given permission to
install 2.0 in my own directory space. I have done so, and it appears to be
working.

The host is running RedHat Linux with Apache as the server. Python 1.5.1 is in
the path, and anyplace I type >python, in any directory, the interpreter comes
up.

Even in the directory where I installed 2.0. To get the 2.0 interpreter to
come up, I have to type the full path. The 2.0 install seems to be running
fine. I used the smtplib and sent myself an e-mail. I added a few numbers.
Printed some messages to the screen. Looks fine.

However...

I can't get some mail scripts that I had running before under 1.5.1 to run
under 2.0.

Using .qmail files I'm invoking these scripts when mail arrives for my
account. The contents of my .qmail file are shown below:
------------------------------------------------
|/big/dom/xthinkspot/mailtofile.py |vdeliver
------------------------------------------------

So, when a mail arrives, it calls the script mailtofile.py and runs that, with
the newly arrived mail being read on stdin.

This is the first version of mailtofile.py:
------------------------------------------------
#! /usr/bin/python

import sys, os

rawmessage = sys.stdin.read()
outfile = open("./outmessage.txt", "w")
sys.stdout=outfile
print rawmessage
outfile.close()
os.chmod("./outmessage.txt", 0664)
------------------------------------------------

When I send an e-mail, it gets copied to the textfile outmessage.txt. No
problem. However, it is running the Python 1.5.1 from my host.

So, I tried changing it to this:

-----------------------------------------------
#! /big/dom/xthinkspot/thinker/python/Python-2.0/python

import sys, os

rawmessage = sys.stdin.read()
outfile = open("./outmessage.txt", "w")
sys.stdout=outfile
print rawmessage
outfile.close()
os.chmod("./outmessage.txt", 0664)
----------------------------------------------

The only thing that has been changed is the path. I have not changed the file
name, or anything else. But this doesn't appear to run at all. Well, the
.qmail file tries to do something. I do get a blank e-mail as a result. But
the python script doesn't appear to do it's thing.

I'm wondering what I need to do? I suppose I need to set my .bash_profile so
that my Python 2.0 is added to my path? or my environment? or something?

Could someone help me out here?



--
Sheila King
http://www.thinkspot.net/sheila/
http://www.k12groups.org/


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Wed Jan  3 07:40:38 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2001 13:40:38 +0100
Subject: variable inirialization and loop forms (was Re: why no "do : until"?)
References: <92jj3j$ff7$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <3A4D6A05.EEC97FA6@uswest.net> <slrn94qqvg.mgg.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <ije36.96813$x6.43604873@news2.rdc2.tx.home.com> <slrn94qt4f.mgg.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <CMo36.97857$x6.44474719@news2.rdc2.tx.home.com> <slrn94s9qg.134.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <gdq36.2696$Qb7.302774@newsb.telia.net> <slrn94shbe.150.grey@teleute.rpglink.com>
Message-ID: <92v6m002nlr@news2.newsguy.com>

"Steve Lamb" <grey at despair.rpglink.com> wrote in message
news:slrn94shbe.150.grey at teleute.rpglink.com...
> On Sat, 30 Dec 2000 18:56:12 GMT, Fredrik Lundh <fredrik at effbot.org>
wrote:
> >from what world do you come from where initializing variables to
arbitrary
> >values just to get your program flow right is a good thing?
>
>     I have never heard of a single programming book or course that says,
"Oh,
> don't init variables."  In this case I feel you are squarely in the wrong
> with, oh, the entire CS community.

Initializing variables *to correct values* is a great thing -- but using
*arbitrary* values for the initialization isn't optimal style.

Considerations vary among languages; but, in Python, by just assigning some
arbitrary value to a variable, whose 'correct' initial value is unknown, you
lose an important runtime error indication -- the (e.g.) 'unbound local
variable'
exception, that you get if inappropriately using the uninitialized variable,
disappears (and you get subtler bugs) if you've just "assigned any old
value"
to it, for purposes unrelated to your actual application's semantics.


Consider a slight abstraction of the example under discussion:

# wait until warm enough
while 1:
    T = getCurrentTemperature()
    if T > threshold: break

Here, T satisfies a very simple invariant: IF it's set at all, then
it is set to the latest temperature value as returned from the function
whose job is to measure "current temperature".

If our stylistic qualms convince us to code this differently:

# wait until warm enough
T = threshold
while T <= threshold:
    T = getCurrentTemperature()

then the invariant becomes less simple, and trickier: T is _either_ set
to 'latest measurement', OR _in an arbitrary way_ to 'threshold'; further,
there is no easy way to distinguish, if T is indeed set to "threshold",
whether this is a "true" measurement, or just our arbitrary initial
setting for it (while, in the previous form, it was very easy to use
try/except if such a test was needed).

This matters!  For example, the getCurrentTemperature function *might*
smooth actual point-measurements (which 'wobble') by averaging with
the previously-measured value; T (as a global variable) is usable for
that in the first form, but not in the second one.
If we want to show the temperature as it gets measured, again the
second form provides no way to ward against a wholly artificial initial
"spike", while the first form lets us use try/except.

But, there's more!  When we "busy-loop" this way, we may not want
to suck up 100% of the CPU while waiting for something as slow-moving
as temperature to adjust; the typical mod would be to sleep a while
after an unsatisfactory measurement.

The first form offers a perfectly satisfactory avenue to that:

# wait until warm enough
while 1:
    T = getCurrentTemperature()
    if T > threshold: break
    else: time.sleep(aWhile)

but the second one is more fragile -- we end up having to repeat
the termination-test, or using additional flags, etc:

# wait until warm enough
T = threshold
while T <= threshold:
    T = getCurrentTemperature()
    if T <= threshold: time.sleep(aWhile)

It's always unpleasant to repeat code -- because it implies a
commitment to keep several pieces of code 'in sync' when the
exact specification changes.  E.g., suppose that we determined
after some testing that we must deem it "warm enough" when T
is _equal_ to the threshold, not just _greater_.  First form
shews its robustness by having small change in specs equate to
correspondingly small change in code:

# wait until warm enough, take 2
while 1:
    T = getCurrentTemperature()
    if T >= threshold: break
    else: time.sleep(aWhile)

A 'greater than' becomes 'greater-equal' in the specs => the
exact same thing happens in the code; perfect!  THIS is the
kind of thing that gives Python its well-deserved fame as
"executable pseudo-code"!-)

But the second form is not as resilient to spec changes:

# wait until warm enough, take 2
T = threshold - epsilon
while T < threshold:
    T = getCurrentTemperature()
    if T < threshold: time.sleep(aWhile)

_TWO_ '<=' must become '<', *and* we need to change our
"arbitrary initialization" as well, accordingly.

Or suppose the simple test for 'warm enough' becomes
more complex -- enough to make it worth our while to
move it to a separate function, which takes all sort
of other things into account to determine whether a
given temperature is "warm enough" (wind speed, % of
humidity, whatever).  Again, first-form shines:

# wait until warm enough, take 3
while 1:
    T = getCurrentTemperature()
    if warmEnough(T): break
    else: time.sleep(aWhile)

isn't it wonderful?  Simple spec change -> identically
simple code change.  But, the second form...:

# wait until warm enough, take 3
T = ???
while warmEnough(T):
    T = getCurrentTemperature()
    if not warmEnough(T): time.sleep(aWhile)

*Eeeep*!  What a ROUT!  *What* shall we initialize T to,
now -- do we need to know the exact algorithm warmEnough
will use?!  And, the two separate calls to warmEnough with
some delay between them -- how do we assure ourselves that
their semantics is indeed what we want?  If some cruel
taskmaster forbid us from the shining clarity of form 1,
we would no doubt have to introduce a temporary flag
variable at this point, and forget about initializing T
to some 'appropriate' (???) value...:

# wait until warm enough, take 3
mustLoopAgain = 1
while mustLoopAgain:
    T = getCurrentTemperature()
    mustLoopAgain = not warmEnough(T)
    if mustLoopAgain: time.sleep(aWhile)

better, but nowhere as simple and clear as form 1.  The
auxiliary flag, whose only reason for existence is to
avoid using a perfectly good Python idiom, is another
little piece of deadweight our code carries to no good
or justifiable purpose.


> >next you gonna tell us that it's better to use flags than to use break
and/or
> >exceptions...
>
>     No, but I don't think that when you can place the test into the while
that
> one should use a while 1:break construct.

*IF AND WHEN* there are NO costs in testing in the while
statement, sure.  But often there ARE some costs: when a
loop WANTS to be an "N-and-a-half times loop", the general
form, then coding it as such (which in Python is expressed
by while 1/...break) produces simpler and therefore better
code than making believe the idiom isn't available.  And it's
often the case that a loop that appears to be a do/until one
now will actually generalize to N-and-a-half with the smallest
spec change.

This underlines, I believe, one of Tim Peters' Python
principles, about syntax mattering in often unexpected
ways.  If the generic Python loop was spelled a LITTLE
differently, say:
    loop [<condition1>]:
        <suite1>
    while <condition2>:
        <suite2>
(with either of the loop or while clauses omitted if
the attached condition and/or suite allows it), nobody
would presumably suggest that it not be used.  Since
it is spelled as in fact it is...:
    while <condition1>:
        <suite1>
        if not <condition2>: break
        <suite2>
we keep having these debates.  Don't let the very minor
syntax sugar issue of how 'loop' and 'while' are spelled,
or the indentation of the latter clause, affect your
judgment to such an extent...!-)


Alex





From weiming at cnri.reston.va.us  Fri Jan 19 19:56:22 2001
From: weiming at cnri.reston.va.us (Weiming He)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 19:56:22 -0500
Subject: Help for DCOracle examples
References: <mailman.979897912.12765.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3A68E235.B11909D6@cnri.reston.va.us>

Thank you for your response. I got compile and link to Buffer.so and oci_.so.
Since it only has
one connection test python program with the release, can you point me where can
I find examples including
query, insert, update and etc. Or if you have some, would you please show me
one or two.
Thank you very much.

Weiming He

Oleg Broytmann wrote:

> Hello!
>
> On Thu, 18 Jan 2001, Weiming He wrote:
> > Does anyone know how to compile and link DCOracle module on AIX UNIX?
> > Please pass me a hand, thanks in advance.
>
>    In what way AIX is different from any other UNIX? I've compiled and used
> DCOracle on Linux...
>
> Oleg.
> ----
>      Oleg Broytmann            http://phd.pp.ru/            phd at phd.pp.ru
>            Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN.



From jcm at bigskytel.com  Sat Jan 27 18:58:21 2001
From: jcm at bigskytel.com (David Porter)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 16:58:21 -0700
Subject: Problems with Install
In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.0.20010127070430.00a5a920@thewebsons.com>; from zope@thewebsons.com on Sat, Jan 27, 2001 at 07:07:03AM -0800
References: <5.0.0.25.0.20010127045146.00a42dc0@thewebsons.com> <5.0.0.25.0.20010126083542.009e3290@mail.earthlink.net> <5.0.0.25.0.20010126083542.009e3290@mail.earthlink.net> <20010126133015.B7309@harmony.cs.rit.edu> <5.0.0.25.0.20010127045146.00a42dc0@thewebsons.com> <20010127073304.A6783@bigskytel.com> <5.0.0.25.0.20010127070430.00a5a920@thewebsons.com>
Message-ID: <20010127165820.A8708@bigskytel.com>

* Ben Ocean <zope at thewebsons.com>:

> >First check if /usr/include/linux/errno.h exists. If it doesn't, maybe you
> >need to install the Linux kernel headers. Perhaps something like
> >kernel-headers*.rpm?
> 
> It exists, but not with *linux* in the path

Then it doesn't exist.

I checked on rpmfind.net and /usr/include/linux/errno.h is provided by
kernel-headers*.rpm where * is the versioning and architecture info.
See if you have such a package with your RedHat and install it.





From msandin at remove_this.hotmail.com  Thu Jan 18 11:41:32 2001
From: msandin at remove_this.hotmail.com (Martin Sandin)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 17:41:32 +0100
Subject: mod_python/'import site' failed
References: <944pf1$8d3$1@news.gu.se> <3A66D7EE.795D5F45@mail.dvz.fh-koeln.de>
Message-ID: <9476em$bqo$1@news.gu.se>

In article <3A66D7EE.795D5F45 at mail.dvz.fh-koeln.de>,
  Stephan Effelsberg <b012414 at mail.dvz.fh-koeln.de> wrote:

> Apart from 'ordinary' modules, site.py is a very special module for
handling
> OS-specific imports of 3rd party modules (e.g. look if you have *.pth
files in
> your Python directory, they are read by this module) and adjusting
sys.path, it
> is imported automatically during startup.
> A failed import of this module also causes this special error message, not
the
> usual ImportError. It seems that you either don't have the file site.py
(or
> site.pyc) or Python is not able to locate it.
> A failed import of 'site' is no reason for Python to quit, you're simply
not
> able to locate some specific modules. That's the reason why Apache tells
you
> that Python is running, because it is really doing so.
> Conclusion: either Python is not installed correctly or Apache is able to
> modify the way Python works (but don't ask me how in particular, I'm not
an
> Apache expert).
>
>

Thanks for your answer, most informative. Let's see if I can provide another
piece of information as I've unfortunatly not managed to actually solve my
problem.

What could be the reason for Python20 not finding site.py?

Python runs fine in all normal cases (started from the python(w).exe) and is
on PATH. site.py (and site.pyc) is in the lib/ directory under the main
python directory. Python might well be running, but when trying to access a
page Apache will log this error:

[Thu Jan 18 10:20:10 2001] [error] [client 194.x.x.x] python_handler:
make_obcallback returned no obCallBack!


The 'import site failed' error persists if I remove all Python references
but the load module directive from httpd.conf.


Anyone got any ideas?


-
Martin
come.to/vague




From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sat Jan 20 08:01:11 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 14:01:11 +0100
Subject: Translating a Perl script into Python
References: <vo9i6t04nhurgv2avmgoss4mg86ofcuhtv@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <94c2as0nei@news2.newsguy.com>

"Sheila King" <sheila at thinkspot.net> wrote in message
news:vo9i6t04nhurgv2avmgoss4mg86ofcuhtv at 4ax.com...
    [snip]
> qmail = ["SENDER", "NEWSENDER", "RECIPIENT", "USER", "HOME", "HOST",
"LOCAL",
>     "EXT", "EXT2", "EXT3", "EXT4", "DTLINE", "RPLINE", "UFLINE"]

Excellent, but perhaps closer to the original Perl might be

qmail = 'SENDER NEWSENDER RECIPIENT USER HOME HOST LOCAL EXT EXT2 EXT3 \
    EXT4 DTLINE RPLINE UFLINE'.split()

> try:
> PROC = open("proc.test","w")
> except:
> sys.stderr << "Couldn't open file for write\n"
> raise

Perhaps better:

try: PROC = open('proc.test', 'w')
except: sys.exit(
    "Couldn't open file for write: %s" %
    traceback.format_exception_only(
    *sys.exc_info()[:2]))

or the "couldn't open" message could be lost in
the traceback; I don't think that message is all
that informative, so I'd just code
    PROC = open('proc.test', 'w')
and let normal exception processing tell me if
and why it couldn't open the file -- but if it IS
important to restate this fact, then the traceback
may then be undesirable.  Debatable, I guess.

> id = commands.getoutput("/usr/bin/id")
> PROC.write("ID: "+id+"\n\n")
> PROC.write("Environment Variables\n")
> for key in qmail:
> PROC.write(key + " = " + os.environ[key] + "\n")
> PROC.write("\nSlurp\n")
> for line in slurp:
> PROC.write(line)

These last two lines may be better expressed as
a single PROC.writelines(slurp).

> PROC.close()

I heartily approve the explicit closing of files, most
particularly ones you're writing; it's theoretically not
strictly necessary in today's Python, but I still think
it's a good idea.

> I appreciate all comments,

_excellent_ code, simple and effective; my comments
above are all about very marginal issues, because I
could not find anything substantial to criticize!-)


Alex





From -$Paul$- at verence.demon.co.uk  Sat Jan 13 08:52:12 2001
From: -$Paul$- at verence.demon.co.uk (Paul Wright)
Date: 13 Jan 2001 13:52:12 -0000
Subject: brace nanny
References: <93nsfk02gdu@drn.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <93pmic$45r$1@verence.demon.co.uk>

In article <93nsfk02gdu at drn.newsguy.com>,
Grant Griffin  <not.this at seebelow.org> wrote:
>Hi Gang,
>
>Does anybody know of a free/open "brace nanny" for C/C++, preferably
>written in Python?  (By "brace nanny", of course, I mean a gizmo that
>finds inconsistencies between the indentation level and the braces.
>I've had to change bracing style lately, so I need a little help with
>that.)

Gimpel's Lint will give an "inconsistent indentation" warning: it's not
free though. You might find there is a free lint which does this.

Other people have already said that both Vim and GNU indent will
re-format C code to correct indentation, if that's a possible solution.
Vim will spot mismatched braces and turn them red, but AFIAK will not
spot inconsistent indentation.

-- 
----- Paul Wright ------| This is just another Graham, Kendrick song (rpt x2)
-paul.wright at pobox.com--| First you sing a line and then you, sing it agai-ain
http://pobox.com/~pw201 | This is just ano-o-o-ther, Graham Kendrick song.


From golgo__13 at my-deja.com  Tue Jan 30 13:27:45 2001
From: golgo__13 at my-deja.com (golgo__13 at my-deja.com)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 18:27:45 GMT
Subject: Python thread
Message-ID: <95712k$g0j$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

Hi,

Python thread document sucks!  It all seems to just handwave the
issue by saying it's close to Java thread model, but since I do
not know it, it's not very useful.

Anyway, I need to do something very simple, and I hope someone can
help me.  Basically I need to launch four threads and combine the
result.  One is CPU intensive and the other threeo are IO
intensive and it needs no communication between.  Right now it's
done in linear way like so:
a=funcA()
b=funcB()
c=funcC()
d=funcD()
e=a+b+c+d

How can I get funcA(),funcB(),funcC() and funcD() started all at the
same time?

I thank you in advance!


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From jpet at eskimo.com  Sun Jan 28 05:39:33 2001
From: jpet at eskimo.com (Jeff Petkau)
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 10:39:33 GMT
Subject: . Python 2.1 function attributes
References: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0101271158190.3501-100000@y.glue.umd.edu><Pine.GSO.4.21.0101270135190.7677-100000@y.glue.umd.edu><mailman.980593892.725.python-list@python.org><$5A+ZwAGjtc6EwE0@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk><14962.62953.304511.523826@anthem.wooz.org><mailman.980613639.23439.python-list@python.org><mailman.980617472.28020.python-list@python.org><Pine.GSO.4.21.0101271303540.3501-100000@y.glue.umd.edu><3A7333F5.DA1E367B@mail.com> <mailman.980662113.14859.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <FFSc6.2506$iG3.539254@dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net>

Barry A. Warsaw <barry at digicool.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.980662113.14859.python-list at python.org...
>
>     JD> Perhaps if "print >> file, something" were written as "print
>     JD> to file, something" there wouldn't be so much controversy over
>     JD> it, even though it wouldn't be doing more or less than it does
>     JD> today.
>
> We tried it.  Using an identifier in that spot caused irreconcilable
> syntactic ambiguities, so we had to pick a non-identifier.  After
> extensive market research <wink> `>>' was picked because it had the

The following seems to work fine for 'print to', even if you insist
on naming your variables 'to'.

In Grammar/Grammar
    print_stmt: 'print' test [test] [',' test]+ [',']

In compile.c:

/* return true if the given test is in fact just a name matching str */
static int
is_literal_test(node *n, char const *str)
{
    static int funky_deep_tree[] = {
        test, and_test, not_test, comparison,
        expr, xor_expr, and_expr, shift_expr,
        arith_expr, term, factor, power, atom,
        0
    };
    int i;
    for (i=0; funky_deep_tree[i]; ++i) {
        if (TYPE(n) != funky_deep_tree[i] || NCH(n)!=1) return 0;
        n = CHILD(n,0);
    }
    /* we're down to the token! */
    return TYPE(n) == NAME && !strcmp(STR(n), str);
}


static void
com_print_stmt(struct compiling *c, node *n)
{
 int i = 1;
 node* stream = NULL;

 REQ(n, print_stmt); /* 'print' test [test] [',' test]+ [','] */

#ifdef USE_PRINT_GOZINTA
    /* are we using the extended print form? (>>) */
    if (NCH(n) >= 2 && TYPE(CHILD(n, 1)) == RIGHTSHIFT) {
        stream = CHILD(n, 2);
        com_node(c, stream);
        /* stack: [...] => [... stream] */
        com_push(c, 1);
        if (NCH(n) > 3 && TYPE(CHILD(n, 3)) == COMMA)
            i = 4;
        else
            i = 3;
    }
#else
    /* 'print to' extended form */
    if (NCH(n) >= 3)
    {
        /* two possibilities: 'print to x ...' or 'print x , ...' */
        if (TYPE(CHILD(n,2)) == COMMA) {
            /* a normal print statement: print x , */
        }
        else if (!is_literal_test(CHILD(n,1), "to")) {
            /* a bad print statement: print foo baz */
            com_error(c, PyExc_SyntaxError, "invalid print syntax");
            return;
        }
        else {
            /* an extended print statement: print to */
            stream = CHILD(n, 2);
            com_node(c, stream);
            /* stack: [...] => [... stream] */
            com_push(c, 1);
            if (NCH(n) > 3 && TYPE(CHILD(n, 3)) == COMMA)
                i = 4;
            else
                i = 3;
        }
    }
#endif

(Sorry this is in such an ugly form. If anyone cares I'll figure
out how to make a proper patch, although I expect it's about a
year too late anyway.)

--Jeff





From thomas at xs4all.net  Tue Jan 30 08:03:27 2001
From: thomas at xs4all.net (Thomas Wouters)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 14:03:27 +0100
Subject: slow joinings of strings
In-Reply-To: <87ofwpnrpp.fsf@losthighway.ahoj.pl>; from kbryd@losthighway._nospam_eu.org on Tue, Jan 30, 2001 at 01:34:58PM +0100
References: <87ofwpnrpp.fsf@losthighway.ahoj.pl>
Message-ID: <20010130140327.F962@xs4all.nl>

On Tue, Jan 30, 2001 at 01:34:58PM +0100, Karol Bryd wrote:

> I want to read a file (0.6MB, 10000 lines) into memory, and want to do it as
> fast as possible, this code does it, but is terribly slow

> fp = open(file, 'r')
> s = ''
> while 1:
>         line = fp.readline()
>         if line == '': break
>         s = s + line

> (executing time 25 sec)

> At first I thought that this is caused by readline() and lack of buffering
> but after removing "s = s + line" executing time decreased to 0.7 seconds!
> The question is how to join two strings in a more efficient way?

The usual answer, strangely enough, is to use string.join. Who would have
guessed ? :-)

file = open(filename, "r")
l = []
while 1:
    line = file.readline()
    if line == "":
        break
    l.append(line)
s = string.join(l, "") # or "".join(l), in Python 2.0+

The reason it's slow is because 's = s + line' creates a new string object
(and usually deletes the previous two -- decreases their refcount, and if it
hits 0, deallocates them.) By using a list and creating the string at the
end, in a single operation, only one string object is created (though a lot
are deleted.)

Alternatively, the 'readlines' method can also be helpful:

file = open(filename, "r")
l = file.readlines()
# manipulate 'l' here, for instance in a map() or list comprehension
s = string.join(l, "")

Or, of course, the 'read' method:

file = open(filename, "r")
s = file.read()

Provided you don't actually want to do anything with the separate lines :)

-- 
Thomas Wouters <thomas at xs4all.net>

Hi! I'm a .signature virus! copy me into your .signature file to help me spread!



From grante at visi.com  Mon Jan 22 11:42:50 2001
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 16:42:50 GMT
Subject: What does Python do
References: <94gmeu$4fc$1@sooner.brightok.net> <t1Sa6.4569$Yv.544288@juliett.dax.net> <94gvv5$7mo$1@sooner.brightok.net> <LPUa6.4598$Yv.546853@juliett.dax.net> <2F4DC6312B7FE9DA.74AB95EBEF3C09D4.1D6BDBE5660A1914@lp.airnews.net>
Message-ID: <eqZa6.1433$eI2.490960@ruti.visi.com>

In article <2F4DC6312B7FE9DA.74AB95EBEF3C09D4.1D6BDBE5660A1914 at lp.airnews.net>, Cameron Laird wrote:
>In article <LPUa6.4598$Yv.546853 at juliett.dax.net>,
>Dag Sunde <dag at orion.no> wrote:
>>I think Python is _very well suited as a
>>first language...
>			.
>			.
>			.
>I claim an even stronger proposition:  Python
>is the single best language for most beginners.
>Its applicability is as wide as *any* language
>(yes, including C and Java), and it's quite in-
>viting to first-timers.

There are some things for which C is still more applicable than
Python: low-level programming such as real-time embedded
systems and device drivers where C is used as a "portable
assembler".  OTOH, I don't consider C applicable for GUI
application development (Python is).

Since beginners aren't generally doing real-time embedded SW or
device drivers, I concur that Python is probably the best
language (of the ones I know) for a beginner.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  .. someone in DAYTON,
                                  at               Ohio is selling USED
                               visi.com            CARPETS to a SERBO-CROATIAN


From Dan.Rolander at marriott.com  Fri Jan 19 13:27:16 2001
From: Dan.Rolander at marriott.com (Rolander, Dan)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 13:27:16 -0500
Subject: How to run script from interpreter?
Message-ID: <6176E3D8E36FD111B58900805FA7E0F80CCF62F1@mcnc-mdm1-ex01>

That works great! I did try to sys.argv[1] = "one" but that didn't work. I
realize now that I needed to set the whole list.

Thanks for your help!
Dan

-----Original Message-----
From: Fredrik Lundh [mailto:fredrik at effbot.org]
Sent: Friday, January 19, 2001 12:53 PM
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: Re: How to run script from interpreter?


Dan Rolander wrote:
> One more thing, is there a way to pass a command line parameter to the
> script named in execfile? Say if I have a script to test which expects a
> value in sys.argv[1]?

did you try putting it in sys.argv[1] ?

import sys
sys.argv = ["spam.py", "one", "two", "three"]
execfile("spam.py")

Cheers /F


-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list



From dsh8290 at rit.edu  Tue Jan 30 11:02:11 2001
From: dsh8290 at rit.edu (D-Man)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 11:02:11 -0500
Subject: curly-brace-aphobic?
In-Reply-To: <slrn97c6bs.bjo.scarblac@pino.selwerd.nl>; from scarblac@pino.selwerd.nl on Tue, Jan 30, 2001 at 01:38:37AM +0000
References: <3A74EBD6.3C87FD15@seebelow.org> <slrn97a9fu.7sf.clgonsal@keeshah.penguinpowered.com> <3A757FBE.E54C5ECD@seebelow.org> <mailman.980789494.4239.python-list@python.org> <slrn97c6bs.bjo.scarblac@pino.selwerd.nl>
Message-ID: <20010130110211.B22069@harmony.cs.rit.edu>

On Tue, Jan 30, 2001 at 01:38:37AM +0000, Remco Gerlich wrote:
| D-Man <dsh8290 at rit.edu> wrote in comp.lang.python:
| > On Mon, Jan 29, 2001 at 08:35:42AM -0600, Grant Griffin wrote:
| > | C.Laurence Gonsalves wrote:
| > | I guess it's because sequences and dictionaries are conceptually very
| > | different.  (You can tell, because we have a special word just to
| > 
| > I'm not sure how different they are conceptually.  A dictionary is a
| > collection (sequence) of data that is indexed by arbitrary keys.  A
| > list is a collection (sequence) of data that is indexed by integers
| > only.
| 
| An essential difference is the fact that lists are ordered, but dicts aren't.

In my Discrete Mathematics II class we discussed Partial Ordering
quite a bit.  If you take this perspective, then lists aren't really
orderd any more than a dict is.

A Partial Ordering is formed by creating a mapping between the
objects you have and a set of objects that already have a known
partial ordering (often the set of integers).  In this view, a list is
simply a mapping from the integers to arbitrary objects and vice
versa.   So sorting a list is really nothing more than altering you
concept of that mapping.

If you write :

for key in dict.keys() :
	pass

you have now ordered your dictionary by creating a mapping from
elements (the keys) in the dictionary to the set of integers (the list
of keys).  What this ordering (or any ordering for that matter) means
is up to the person making use of the ordering.  You can also write

for item in dict.items() :
	pass

and create a possibly (probably!) different ordering for the
dictionary.  In practice, to say that something is "unordered" really
means that there is no (universally) meaningful ordering for the data.
If you take some dictionaries and print the contents using either of
the above loops, you are not guaranteed to get the results in the same
order each time.  In this sense, yes, a dict is unordered.

Suppose I use a dict with integers as keys.  How is this different from a list?

dict = { 1:"one" , 2:"two" , 3:"three" }
list = [   "one" ,   "two" ,   "three" ]

for i in len( list ) :
	print list[i]

for i in len( dict ) :
	print dict[i]

In this case, they are identical!  For all we know, a list is
implemented as a dictionary (we know the interface is a little
different but we don't know the implementation).  (Ok, so I know that
Python doesn't implement them the same way, but that is irrelevant.) 

I still maintain my postiion that a list is really a special case of a
dictionary, on a theoretical level.  I'm not saying that your points
are incorrect or invalid or anything like that.  At the practical
level I don't really use/consider lists and dicts as the same thing.
I am sure that there are also efficiency issues to deal with when
implementing lists and dicts.  The list can be optimized since it
knows that only integers will be used and of the integers, only the
integers in the range 0 <= n <= len( list ).

| 
| So lists have things like append(), and dicts can set items that don't exist
| yet. Sorting a list makes sense, sorting a dict doesn't. Et cetera.
| 
| But indexing should be the same for lists, dicts, tuples, shelves, arbitrary
| instances - it's simply indexing. It does the same thing.
| 
| It's almost odd that list/dict indexing is different from indexing a module
| or instance...

I'm not familiar with indexing a module or instance.  What exactly
does it mean?

| 
| -- 
| Remco Gerlich

enjoying-this-friendly-discussion-ly y'rs -D




From ssthapa at cs.uchicago.edu  Thu Jan 25 15:15:25 2001
From: ssthapa at cs.uchicago.edu (ssthapa at cs.uchicago.edu)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 20:15:25 GMT
Subject: Python vs Ruby
References: <94mdkd$222e$1@news.adamastor.ac.za> <SRBb6.9880$d25.63606@newsfeed.slurp.net> <87itn4plf4.fsf@brimstone.mecha>
Message-ID: <slrn970fl9.18n.ssthapa@ntcs-ip45.uchicago.edu>

Alexander Williams <thantos at telocity.com> wrote:
>If you REALLY want to go out of the mainstream, on both Linux and
>Windows, go hit http://www.erlang.org ...  Nothing beats the feeling
>of watching a single function go bouncing between your Linux and Win
>boxen running the same byrecode, packaging itself up and beaming its
>data across to the other node to compute on either/both ...

    Erlang's not really non mainstream.  Ericsson and Bluetail both use
it to write the firmware for their telcom equipment.  Erlang is a 
functional language which would probably be a bit disconcerting to 
java/c/c++ programmers but it has a bunch of neat concurrency and 
redundancy features builtin since it was primarily designed to be used
in mission critical hardware.

-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
	   		              |
Suchandra Thapa                       | "There are only two kinds of math . 
s-thapa-11 at NOSPAMalumni.uchicago.edu  | books. Those you cannot read beyond 
			              | the first sentence, and those you 
			              | can not read beyond the first page."
			              |                     -C.N. Yang
----------------------------------------------------------------------------


From oblomov at freemail.it  Thu Jan 18 17:18:31 2001
From: oblomov at freemail.it (Giuseppe Bilotta)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 22:18:31 GMT
Subject: "Total flattening" of a tuple
References: <WIo96.76570$eB2.6161239@news.infostrada.it> <9457vn01f5d@news2.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <XYJ96.85101$eB2.6677709@news.infostrada.it>

Thanks, I will test and let you know.

--
Giuseppe Bilotta


Alex Martelli <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote

> struct.pack(packmode, *mylist) works in Python 2.0; for older releases,
> apply(struct.pack, tuple(mylist)) [I think you can omit the tuple() call,
> in some of those older releases, but don't recall exactly -- been a while].





From rjroy at takingcontrol.com  Wed Jan 10 18:34:32 2001
From: rjroy at takingcontrol.com (Robert Roy)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 23:34:32 GMT
Subject: SAX ContentHandler / nbsp ?
References: <93i08n$trb$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <3a5cef09.77632687@news1.on.sympatico.ca>

On Wed, 10 Jan 2001 15:48:44 GMT, gregory_wilson at my-deja.com wrote:

>I'm trying to build simple filter for some legacy
>HTML by deriving from xml.sax.ContentHandler.
>Right now, it dies when it hits the "&nbsp;"
>entity.  What is the simplest way to handle
>this?  Do I need an explicit DTD?  Can I register
>entities with the parser w/out a DTD? Can I build
>an error handler that'll trap unknown entities
>and tell the parser "never mind, it's OK"?
>
>Thanks,
>Greg
>
>
>Sent via Deja.com
>http://www.deja.com/
 HTML is SGML not  XML so your efforts are doomed to failure since
most HTML is not written in a manner that would be considered
well-formed XML. Use sgmllib instead. There is an extension called
sgmlop that is in the XML sig distribution that speeds up sgmllib
tremendously.


## here is a code sample that changes the background color of td's
## and passes all entity refs through unchanged

from sgmllib import SGMLParser
import string

class MySGMLParser(SGMLParser):
    def __init__(self, verbose=0, outfile=None):
       if not hasattr(outfile, 'write'):
           raise "outfile must have attribute write"
       self.outfile = outfile
       SGMLParser.__init__(self, verbose)

    def handle_data(self, data):
        self.outfile.write(data)

    def handle_comment(self, data):
        self.outfile.write('<!--%s-->' % data)
        
    def unknown_starttag(self, tag, attrs):
        if not attrs:
            self.outfile.write('<' + tag + '>')
        else:
            self.outfile.write('<' + tag)
            for attr in attrs:
                self.outfile.write(' %s="%s"' % attr)
            self.outfile.write('>')

    def unknown_endtag(self, tag):
        self.outfile.write('</%s>' % tag)

    def unknown_entityref(self, ref):
        self.outfile.write('&%s;' % ref)
    # so known refs do not get translated
    handle_entityref = unknown_entityref

    def unknown_charref(self, ref):
        self.outfile.write('&#%s;' % ref)
    # so known refs do not get translated
    handle_charref = unknown_charref

    def close(self):
        SGMLParser.close(self)

    ## put tag handlers here, 
    ## for my sample code I took the  www.python.org homepage and
    ## changed the bgcolor of the wrapper tables 
    ## define start and end tag handlers as start_TAGNAME, end_TAGNAME

    def start_td(self, attrs):
        if not attrs:
            self.outfile.write('<td>')
        else:
            self.outfile.write('<td')
            for name, val in attrs:
                if string.lower(name) == 'bgcolor': 
                    self.outfile.write(' %s="%s"' % (name, '#ffcc99'))
                else:
                    self.outfile.write(' %s="%s"' % (name, val))
            self.outfile.write('>')

    def end_td(self):
        self.outfile.write('</td>')



if __name__ == "__main__":
    import sys
    if len(sys.argv) != 3:
        print "usage: python changeattr.py infile, outfile"
        raise SystemExit
    infile = sys.argv[1]
    outfile = sys.argv[2]
    ofp = open(outfile, 'w')
    # this is a one shot parser
    p = MySGMLParser(outfile=ofp)
    p.feed(open(infile).read())
    p.close()
    ofp.close()





From john at coastalgeology.org  Sat Jan 20 22:43:59 2001
From: john at coastalgeology.org (Jonathan Pennington)
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 22:43:59 -0500
Subject: string.split returns empty when unaccessed
Message-ID: <20010120224359.A90878@coastalgeology.org>

I'm having a problem spliting a string that is not accessed in some
way before the split. I am using the pygarmin module (modified) and
wxPython to build a GUI mapping program on a FreeBSD system with the
Python port v2.0. The code that retrieves the list is very long and
spans 3 modules, so it is not included here. I'm hoping that this is a
known problem or at least understandable from this limited info, and
the code is not needed, but I can provide it offlist if necessary.

Given a string foo returned from a class instance, string.split(foo,
'sep') returns [''] instead of a list of string items. However, if I
print foo, then try string.split(foo, 'sep') I *will* get a good
list. Copying as foo = foo[:] before splitting causes the same
behavior.  

What happens is:

> gps = garmin(UnixSerialLink('/dev/cuaa0'))
> w = gps.getWaypoints()
> t = string.split(w, '|R|')
> print t
['']
> w = gps.getWaypoints()
> w = w[:]
> t = string.split(w,'|R|')
> print t
['']
> w = gps.getWaypoints()
> print 'w'
[... waypoints ...]
> t = string.split(w,'|R|')
> print t
['name:V:stuff','cmnt:V:more stuff','lat:V:number','lon:V:number'...]

I can't figure out why that would happen, has anyone seen this before?
I can't seem to find a reference to the behavior anywhere. I'm still
new to the Python object model, but referencing it before splitting
doesn't seem like it should change it at all.

I've changed quite a bit in PyGarmin and there's a lot of code
accessed, but the instance that returns the string is below. Thanks. 

--------------class follows---------------------

import UserString
class D104(Waypoint, UserString.UserString):
   parts = Waypoint.parts + ("dst", "smbl", "dspl")
   fmt = "<6s l l L 40s f h b"

   def __init__(self, ident="", slat=0L, slon=0L, cmnt="", dst=0L, smbl=0L, dspl=0L):
      self.ident = ident         # text identidier (upper case)
      self.slat = slat           # lat & long in semicircle terms
      self.slon = slon       
      self.cmnt = cmnt           # comment (must be upper case)
      self.unused = 0L
      self.dst = dst                  # proximity distance (m)
      self.smbl = smbl                   # symbol_type id
      self.dspl = dspl                   # D104 display option
      self.data = ""
            
   def __repr__(self):
      self.data = "name:V:%s|R|cmnt:V:%s|R|lat:V:%i|R|lon:V:%i|R|dst:V:%i|R|smbl:V:%i|R|dspl:V:%i" % \
             (self.ident, self.cmnt, self.slat, self.slon, self.dst, \
              self.smbl, self.dspl)
      return self.data

-- 
Jonathan Pennington		| http://coastalgeology.org
Site Manager			| Protection and stewardship
CoastalGeology.Org (CGO)	| through public education.
john at coastalgeology.org		| Join CGO, make a difference.



From Daniel.Kinnaer at AdValvas.be  Thu Jan  4 14:05:33 2001
From: Daniel.Kinnaer at AdValvas.be (Daniel)
Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 19:05:33 GMT
Subject: How-to create a Pascal Record using Python
Message-ID: <3a54c7cf.15612195@news.skynet.be>

Hello,

How are Pascal-records used in Python? I've tried some code (below)
but I ran into trouble with this '\012' attached to each line.  Can
someone please help me out?  What is the correct way of
using/creating/writing/reading Pascal-records in Python? Thanks

Daniel


"""
This is the contents of the records-file (Each line is a record
containing 3 elements.)
aaa,12,azert
bbb,a1,qsdfg
ccc,2c,wxcvb
ddd,7f,yuiop
eee,9b,hjklm
fff,0e,nhyuj
"""

#define a function which stores all the lines from a file into a list
def getTheLines(filename):
    file = open(filename)
    return map(str, file.readlines())

#store contents of records-file into a list
lijst = getTheLines( "C:\\Python20\\AProject\\Records\\records.txt")

print lijst

The output is as follows : 
['aaa,12,azert\012', 'bbb,a1,qsdfg\012', 'ccc,2c,wxcvb\012',
'ddd,7f,yuiop\012', 'eee,9b,hjklm\012', 'fff,0e,nhyuj']


From csrabak at uol.com.br  Thu Jan 25 11:54:50 2001
From: csrabak at uol.com.br (Cesar Rabak)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 14:54:50 -0200
Subject: beep again
References: <mailman.980415329.32326.python-list@python.org> <fCSb6.9116$Qb7.1309851@newsb.telia.net>
Message-ID: <3A705A5A.42E75D95@uol.com.br>

Count a vote for this!


Fredrik Lundh wrote:
> 
> Tim Peters wrote:
> > I suppose the other choice is to remap this to the MS
> > MessageBeep(MB_OK) function, so it plays the default
> > sound on *all* systems.
> 
> how about renaming "winsound" to "_winsound", and
> introducing a Python wrapper:
> 
>     # winsound.py
>     from _winsound import *
>     platform = ...
>     if platform in ("win95", "win98"):
>         def Beep(...):
>             ...generate wave data...
>             PlaySound(data)
> 
> (may Will's synthesizer code could fit in there somewhere)
> 
> Cheers /F


From "duckpond(no spam)" at early.com  Sat Jan  6 16:54:30 2001
From: "duckpond(no spam)" at early.com (Tom Connor)
Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2001 16:54:30 -0500
Subject: updating idle
Message-ID: <3A579416.DBFE2E0D@early.com>

I'm just getting back to some programming after 20+ years.  I'd like to
dupdate the IDLE 4.0 I now have installed with Python 1.5.2 to IDLE
5.0.  I've downloaded and gunzipped and untarred it.  Where does it go?
and is there a preferred prcedure for this?

Thanks for your help.

Tom
-------------- next part --------------
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From daniel at chetlin.com  Thu Jan 11 07:00:04 2001
From: daniel at chetlin.com (Daniel Chetlin)
Date: 11 Jan 2001 12:00:04 GMT
Subject: Speed of Python vs. Perl
References: <t5eojolijv1e58@corp.supernews.com> <WN366.240570$_5.53720921@news4.rdc1.on.home.com> <slrn95qtbp.94d.tim@degree.ath.cx>
Message-ID: <93k78401u8s@news2.newsguy.com>

On Thu, 11 Jan 2001 08:54:17 GMT,
 Tim Hammerquist <tim at degree.ath.cx> wrote:
>Michael P. Soulier <msoulier at storm.ca> wrote:
[snip]
>> [msoulier at lupus test]$ time ./bench.pl
>> 
>> real    0m2.006s
>> user    0m1.950s
>> sys     0m0.030s
>> 
>> [msoulier at lupus test]$ time ./bench.py
>> 
>> real    0m0.558s
>> user    0m0.440s
>> sys     0m0.050s
>
>How much of these times is the startup time for the interpreters?
>Python has a profiler, and the Standard Perl Dist. includes the
>Benchmark module for this purpose. This would give you a more accurate
>picture of where the processor spends its time.

I sat on a response to Michael's post for about an hour, and finally
decided not to send it, being sure that it would be misinterpreted as an
attempt to start a pyvspl flamewar. However, since Tim has responded
here, I figure I'll pass on my original post.

Executive summary: the numbers given above by Michael are not a good
indication of real comparative speed between similarly implemented
programs in Python and Perl.

Final disclaimer: what I write below is in no way intended to make a
claim about relative speed, usability, or karma of any language. It is
simply to clear up a minor misconception.

On Sun, 07 Jan 2001 19:52:22 GMT,
 Michael P. Soulier <msoulier at storm.ca> wrote:
[snip]
>[msoulier at lupus test]$ cat bench.pl
>#!/usr/bin/perl
>
>%hash = ();
>for ($i = 0; $i < 100000; ++$i) {
>    $hash{$i} = 1;
>}
>
>    This is a typical perl implementation of a loop. The use of the for
>loop and its integer operations though, don't help the performance. If
>we instead use Python's range function, we'll probably get better
>performance.

Actually, that's not at all a typical Perl loop. The majority of Perl
gurus would infer from reading that code that the programmer is mired in
C-land and hasn't yet seen the usual Perl idioms. If iterating over
numbers is necessary, the idiom would probably be:

  for (0 .. 99999) {

But in most cases, one would iterate directly over elements, rather than
creating a list of numbers. And in this case, one might eschew the loop
altogether:

  @hash{0 .. 99999} = (1) x 99999;

The advantages of this construct are clarity and conciseness at the
expense of a bit of speed -- the for-loop with range operator will
likely be a bit faster -- while remaining substantially faster than the
C-style loop.

Your general point -- that implementation matters and that Python
certainly has areas where it is faster than Perl -- is still quite
valid, and I do not disagree. You will find, however, that using the
range operator or the hash slice speeds up the Perl significantly.

</de-lurk>

-dlc



From zope at thewebsons.com  Sat Jan 27 11:37:03 2001
From: zope at thewebsons.com (Ben Ocean)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 08:37:03 -0800
Subject: Problems with Install
In-Reply-To: <3A72EE98.59B7D765@uol.com.br>
References: <5.0.0.25.0.20010127045146.00a42dc0@thewebsons.com>
 <5.0.0.25.0.20010126083542.009e3290@mail.earthlink.net>
 <5.0.0.25.0.20010126083542.009e3290@mail.earthlink.net>
 <20010126133015.B7309@harmony.cs.rit.edu>
 <5.0.0.25.0.20010127045146.00a42dc0@thewebsons.com>
 <mailman.980608087.16691.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.0.20010127083603.00a5cc50@thewebsons.com>

I do not have python.h
How do I get it?
TIA,
BenO

At 01:51 PM 1/27/2001 -0200, you wrote:
>Ben,
>
>Lets 'parse' the error msg your getting:
>
> > > > In file included from /usr/include/errno.h:36,
> > > >                   from ../Include/Python.h:59,
> > > >                   from myreadline.c:42:
> > > > /usr/include/bits/errno.h:25: linux/errno.h: No such file or directory
>
>myreadline.c at line 42 includes a file called errno.h which it expects
>to be at /usr/include/bits/, this file includes Python.h which expects
>to be found at ../Include (one dir up in the tree where this include
>is), and then Python.h wants to include /usr/include/errno.h, which is a
>common include file for the libc.
>
>Do you have all these files in your installation?
>--
>http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list




From thomas.heller at ion-tof.com  Thu Jan 25 07:29:18 2001
From: thomas.heller at ion-tof.com (Thomas Heller)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 13:29:18 +0100
Subject: I mean *setup.py* ! ... (more questions)[Re: libraries=['m'] inconfig.py [Re: Python 2.1 alpha 1 released!]]
References: <mailman.980277285.14781.python-list@python.org> <mailman.980419470.4109.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <94p66v$e55qc$1@ID-59885.news.dfncis.de>

"M.-A. Lemburg" <mal at lemburg.com> wrote in message news:mailman.980419470.4109.python-list at python.org...
> "Steven D. Majewski" wrote:
> >
> > ** I meant setup.py, not config.py! **
> >
> > OK -- same sort of problem building readline.so :
> >  setup.py wants to include -ltermcap
> >
> > I was willing to write the other one off as a MacOSX oddity that
> > nobody on python-dev was likely to know about, but -ltermcap is
> > likely to be a problem on other systems too!
> >
> > So that makes me think I'm missing some obvious way of overriding
> > these switches. Are there any docs or tips on this new setup
> > method ?  Am I just supposed to edit the source of setup.py, or
> > is it generated from some template ?
>
> Please post these suggestions on the Python bugs listm, Python-Dev
> or Andrew Kuchling who wrote the setup.py script -- the
> distutils approach to auto-configuring Python's builtin modules
> is very new and still needs some refinements.
>
Andrew and Guido seem to have zero interest in supporting
platforms other than linux/unix.

Thomas





From eq3pvl at eq.uc.pt  Mon Jan 15 12:57:40 2001
From: eq3pvl at eq.uc.pt (Pedro Vale Lima)
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 17:57:40 +0000
Subject: Python 1.5.2/2.0  C extension type differences
References: <Fg086.1743$wt2.6000@news1.oke.nextra.no>
Message-ID: <3A633A14.1C242A13@eq.uc.pt>

RCS wrote:

> where an error is reported at the  PyObject_HEAD_INIT(&PyType_Type) : error
> C2099: initializer is not a constant,
> and in addition a bunch of warnings for the rest of the entries.

I also had that problem in windows once and solved it by replacing

PyObject_HEAD_INIT(&PyType_Type)

with

PyObject_HEAD_INIT(0)

I don't know the problem or the correct  solution. Maybe
someone on the list could add some explanation. Anyhow windows
is of very little interest to me.

regards

pedro




From ullrich at math.okstate.edu  Sat Jan 13 13:53:05 2001
From: ullrich at math.okstate.edu (David C. Ullrich)
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 18:53:05 GMT
Subject: No meta-type in Python?
References: <93q4og$ppg$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <93q86f$sd8$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

In article <93q4og$ppg$1 at nnrp1.deja.com>,
  Chris Ryland <cpr at emsoftware.com> wrote:
> Just out of curiousity, why is there no <type 'type'> in Python?

Other than the <type 'type'> type you mean? (type(type(42))
is <type 'type'>, for example.) It even has a name in types;
<type 'type'> is the type TypeType.

> I.e., I'd expect type(Ellipsis) to be <type 'type'> rather than
> <type 'ellipsis'>.

Ellipsis is an object, not a type. Or so it appears to me
from the docs. type(type(Ellipsis)) _is_ <type 'type'>.

> I realize this is opening a can of worms about meta-types (cf.
> Smalltalk's (and other languages) theoretical completeness in this
> area), but simply looking for enlightenment from the experts.

Not being an expert on any of this I imagine I haven't answered
the question you _meant_ to ask...

> Chris Ryland * Em Software, Inc. * www.emsoftware.com
>
> Sent via Deja.com
> http://www.deja.com/
>

--
Oh, dejanews lets you add a sig - that's useful...


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From mtebeka at iil.intel.com  Thu Jan 18 08:59:30 2001
From: mtebeka at iil.intel.com (Miki Tebeka)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 15:59:30 +0200
Subject: Dynamic attributes
Message-ID: <Pine.WNT.4.32.0101181556160.1644-100000@haw2u1320>

Hello All,

Is there an "official" way to do the following?

class _setter:
    def __init__(self, dict, key):
        self.__dict = dict
        self.__key = key
    def __call__(self, value):
        self.__dict[self.__key] = value


class _getter:
    def __init__(self, dict, key):
        self.__dict = dict
        self.__key = key
    def __call__(self):
        return self.__dict[self.__key]

class DynAttribs:
    def __init__(self):
        self.__dict = {}
    def addAttrib(self, attrib, value = None):
        try: # check if we were initialized
            self.__dict
        except:
            DynAttribs.__init__(self)
        key = '__da%s' % attrib
        self.__dict[key] = value
        self.__dict__[attrib] = _getter(self.__dict, key)
        self.__dict__['set%s' % attrib] = _setter(self.__dict, key)



>>> class XY(common.DynAttribs):
...  def __init__(self, x, y):
...	self.addAttrib('x', x)
...  	self.addAttrib('y', y)
...
>>> xy = XY(1,2)
>>> xy.x()
1
>>> xy.setx(100)
>>> xy.x()
100

Of course, you can add variant checks when assigning, but this is the
general idea.

Bye.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Smile, damn it, smile.

lambda msg: {
	'name' : 'Miki Tebeka',
	'email' : 'tebeka at lycosmail.com',
	'homepage' : 'www.tebeka.freeservers.com',
	'quote' : "I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it."
}[msg]



From avv at quasar.ipa.nw.ru  Tue Jan 16 17:13:32 2001
From: avv at quasar.ipa.nw.ru (Alexander V. Voinov)
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 14:13:32 -0800
Subject: adding the XML to 2.0 to be a mistake?
References: <mailman.979611383.15529.python-list@python.org> <3d8zocuqrd.fsf@kronos.cnri.reston.va.us> <3a646756.124812921@news1.on.sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <3A64C78C.2E77775F@quasar.ipa.nw.ru>

Hi All,

Robert Roy wrote:
> 
> On 15 Jan 2001 22:20:38 -0500, Andrew Kuchling
> <akuchlin at mems-exchange.org> wrote:
> 
> >John Schmitt <jschmitt at vmlabs.com> writes:
> >> Pardon the ignorance, but where is the mistake?  Is it in adding PyXML to
> >> 2.0 or is it the way it was done?  Is there no development strategy that
> >> makes this less of a burden?  If a previous release of PyXML had been added
> >> to 2.0, would you still consider it a mistake?
> >
> >Duplicating complex code in two different projects, .... etc

Ok, is it safe to install current versions of PyXML and related products
on top of the standard Python-2.0 installation? How to do this safely,
in other words?

Thank you in advance

Alexander


From sdm7g at virginia.edu  Thu Jan  4 12:59:06 2001
From: sdm7g at virginia.edu (Steven D. Majewski)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 12:59:06 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Playing an .mov, .avi etc. file??
In-Reply-To: <3A545966.F8794D69@ira.uka.de>
Message-ID: <Pine.NXT.4.21.0101041256440.227-100000@localhost.virginia.edu>


And on the Mac, look in :Mac:Demo:quicktime: for an example. 

-- Steve Majewski <sdm7g at Virginia.EDU>

On Thu, 4 Jan 2001, Markus von Ehr wrote:

> 
> harrc at my-deja.com wrote:
> > 
> > Does anyone know of a good way from Python to play a video file (.avi
> > or .mpg or .mov)?  Or even better, a way to play slected tracks off a
> > DVD?
> > 
> > Any info is helpful!
> > 
> > Chad Harrington
> > 
> On windows systems you can use the win32com module and use OLE/COM
> control mechanism. I tried to use MediaPlayer, but had problems.
> If you use windows and COM control, please answer in case of success.
> 




From donn at u.washington.edu  Wed Jan 17 16:25:17 2001
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: 17 Jan 2001 21:25:17 GMT
Subject: design help/questions
References: <t6bue0e3m9bt74@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <9452jt$s8e$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>

Quoth "Amritansh Raghav" <amritansh at mobilian.com>:

| So here is what I need to do. I'm trying to write a scripting tool for our
| test team. They wish to send arbitrary packets over the network.  What I'd
| like to do is allow the testers to specify any packet in a text file - say
| something like this:
| <IP>
|     "VersionLength"          0        1    # Name of field, Starting offset,
| Length in bytes
|     "TOS"                        1        1
|     "Length"                     2        2
|     "Id"                            4        2
|     "Offset"                      6        2
|     "TTL"                        8        1
|     "ProtoId"                    9        1
|     CheckSum"                10        2
|     "Source"                   12        4
|     "Dest"                        16        4
| </IP>
|
| Once they have specified this, the tester should be able to create a packet
| an assign values to the field, or receive a packet and parse out its
| contents.
| so a script should be able to say
| p = read()
| if p["ProtoId"] == 17:
|     # do something here for UDP packets
|
| Solution
|     I have written a DLL  which can open/close/read/write to an ethernet
| device. I've got it interfacing to Python. It can accept a buffer and return
| a buffer. I've looked at socketmodule.c to get most of that figured out. I
| assume what I need to do is build a dictionary whose keys are the field
| names of a packet and then write a parser to fill in the values into the
| dictionary. I also need something to parse the text file description.
|
| If someone has done something like this before, or can point me to helpful
| scripts and source, I would be grateful.

If I understand this, I think at the lowest level the options are few.
I think since you're already writing C extensions, you might find it
simpler to make the buffer into a tuple there, but if you want to do
it in Python, you can use struct.unpack.  See your documentation, or
print struct.__doc__.

Then it's up to you how to map this tuple to the field names.  I think
one candidate would be a class ...

   class Packet:
       def __init__(self, buffer = None):
           if buffer is None:
               self.VersionLength = 1
               ... # default values
           else:
               self.unpack(buffer)
       def unpack(self, buffer):
           self.VersionLength, ... = struct.unpack('B...', buffer)
       def pack(self):
           return struct.pack('B...', self.VersionLength, ...)

   packet = Packet(buffer)
   packet.ProtoId = 17
   buffer = packet.pack()

	Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu


From thomas at xs4all.net  Wed Jan 17 18:54:45 2001
From: thomas at xs4all.net (Thomas Wouters)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 00:54:45 +0100
Subject: Python and Industry, IBM I'm afraid
In-Reply-To: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCKEPFIIAA.tim.one@home.com>; from tim.one@home.com on Tue, Jan 16, 2001 at 02:42:44AM -0500
References: <3A63D9E8.F9B74ACE@mjs400.co.uk> <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCKEPFIIAA.tim.one@home.com>
Message-ID: <20010118005445.C17392@xs4all.nl>

On Tue, Jan 16, 2001 at 02:42:44AM -0500, Tim Peters wrote:

> win95-ain't-exactly-a-postdoc-status-symbol-ly y'rs  - tim

My father told me a story about a CS (or related study, I forget) professor
he interviewed once. My father was writing a book at the time, using
TeX/LaTeX (which he still does) and told the prof that. The professor then
exclaimed that such nonsense was not allowed in his departement, and
everybody had to do their papers in MS Word. So I guess at least *some*
people think Windows is a good tool for academics ;)

(Afterwards, though, one of the TA's took my father asside and told him
practically everyone used TeX anyway, and just converted the resulting paper
into Word documents for the professor to read ;-)

-- 
Thomas Wouters <thomas at xs4all.net>

Hi! I'm a .signature virus! copy me into your .signature file to help me spread!



From erno-news at erno.iki.fi  Thu Jan 18 13:27:33 2001
From: erno-news at erno.iki.fi (Erno Kuusela)
Date: 18 Jan 2001 20:27:33 +0200
Subject: emacs / autocompletion
References: <mailman.979830442.31419.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <kuwvbsd8bu.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>

In article <mailman.979830442.31419.python-list at python.org>, Siegmund
Fuhringer <sifu at isohypse.org> writes:

| hi..
| is there anywhere an emacs autocompletion mode available?
| i'm unable to find something like that. 

yep. i think dynamic abbrav expansion is bound by default to M-/.

there is a section about this stuff in the emacs manual.

  -- erno


From fredrik at effbot.org  Tue Jan 16 13:46:11 2001
From: fredrik at effbot.org (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 18:46:11 GMT
Subject: A small suggestion for Python
References: <3A5F27F7.30268D9A@erols.com> <G74HuE.AGn.0.sinope@news.jtan.com> <93qpbc02n4a@news1.newsguy.com> <G7595o.HKE.0.sinope@news.jtan.com> <93rumc01013@news1.newsguy.com> <slrn9644e9.lf.ssthapa@ntcs-ip45.uchicago.edu>
Message-ID: <TF096.7027$AH6.1065904@newsc.telia.net>

ssthapa at harper.uchicago.edu wrote:
> Also there are times when making copies is not possible or would be
> the wrong thing to do.  For example if the array contains objects representing
> email messages which you sort based on time.  Copying the emails may not be
> pratical especially if they contain large attachments.

copy.copy(L) (and L[:]) does a shallow copy.  it only copies
the pointers, not the members.

Cheers /F




From scarblac at pino.selwerd.nl  Tue Jan  9 08:18:58 2001
From: scarblac at pino.selwerd.nl (Remco Gerlich)
Date: 9 Jan 2001 13:18:58 GMT
Subject: 2001 Enchancement Wishlist
References: <20001231175940.A5435@xs4all.nl> <008301c07501$c036ae40$43931497@martelli> <20010104165116.F2467@xs4all.nl> <008601c07675$0adf2020$102b2bc1@cadlab.it> <20010104203232.P402@xs4all.nl> <006801c0769b$ac0cc3a0$9d8a1a97@martelli> <20010105110459.Q402@xs4all.nl> <mailman.978706087.24274.python-list@python.org> <937l3u$gbi$1@slb2.atl.mindspring.net> <937pl001peq@news1.newsguy.com> <mailman.979044256.1866.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrn95m3nd.45d.scarblac@pino.selwerd.nl>

Thomas Wouters <thomas at xs4all.net> wrote in comp.lang.python:
> On Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 07:51:35PM +0100, Alex Martelli wrote:
> > "Andrew Dalke" <dalke at acm.org> wrote in message
> > news:937l3u$gbi$1 at slb2.atl.mindspring.net...
> >     [snip]
> > >   proxy = Proxy(...)
> > >   sys.modules[module_name] = proxy
> > >
> > > In other words, what you import doesn't need to be a module.
> > > It can be a class instance instead - or any other data type.
> > 
> > Now THAT is interesting!  I would never have guessed that the
> > items in sys.modules need not be module objects.  Is this
> > documented, something I can rely on forevermore and just
> > happened not to notice in my study, or just an accident of the
> > current implementation which might go away anytime?
> 
> Without pretending to channel Guido or someone similar important in that
> area of Python, I think I can safely say it's to be considered an
> implementation detail, and that the behaviour is undefined. It could even
> be considered a bug, since 'import' claims to import a module into the
> local namespace, and a class instance isn't a module :)

And note that you can't use 'from proxy import *' when proxy is a class,
it gives a type error.

This is a pity, since I read this thread and then I wanted to compose some
obfuscated Python in which the entire main loop would be

while 1:
   from Perl import *
   
:-)


-- 
Remco Gerlich



From db3l at fitlinxx.com  Tue Jan  2 12:23:30 2001
From: db3l at fitlinxx.com (David Bolen)
Date: 02 Jan 2001 12:23:30 -0500
Subject: Komodo
References: <B672A66F.72CC%bobhicks@adelphia.net> <3A4D6D0B.20000@ActiveState.com>
Message-ID: <uvgrx7trh.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com>

Mark Hammond <MarkH at ActiveState.com> writes:

> I can't speak for Perl.  But for Python, you certainly should be able to 
> craft your own working Python version.  There is nothing special in the 
> ActivePython binaries, other than everything Komodo needs in one 
> package.

When I tried to install Komodo, it complained that ActivePython wasn't
installed (I have a standard Python installation), at which point I
gave up.  Do you know if this is just a check for certain Python
modules?  I had assumed it was looking for something truly specific to
ActivePython, and I wasn't prepared to install that just for Komodo.

--
-- David
-- 
/-----------------------------------------------------------------------\
 \               David Bolen            \   E-mail: db3l at fitlinxx.com  /
  |             FitLinxx, Inc.            \  Phone: (203) 708-5192    |
 /  860 Canal Street, Stamford, CT  06902   \  Fax: (203) 316-5150     \
\-----------------------------------------------------------------------/


From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Jan  4 00:43:06 2001
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 00:43:06 -0500
Subject: why no "do : until"?
References: <92jj3j$ff7$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <slrn94shbe.150.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <X8s36.2731$Qb7.305339@newsb.telia.net> <slrn94smds.150.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <FOt36.17$vd1.2224@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com> <slrn94t1vj.150.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <3A4E95FD.D6C737A7@engcorp.com> <slrn94tqkh.150.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <tpr46.7782$4c.597534@ruti.visi.com> <slrn954h6p.rgv.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <3A52AD6A.62D043A2@engcorp.com> <3A534367.36B1FD18@uswest.net> <slrn957j19.go.amk@207-172-36-81.s81.tnt6.ann.va.dialup.rcn.com> <3A53F4B1.6227D241@uswest.net>
Message-ID: <3A540D6A.B7B90A73@engcorp.com>

Bjorn Pettersen wrote:
> 
> That was hardly a forceful condemnation of "while 1" <wink>. Try
> suggesting on the list that you want something like:
> 
[snip]
> 
> and you'll have half a dozen people jumping on your back telling you that
> "while 1" is simple, intuitive, and is the only Pythonic way to do things
> (you'll have half a dozen other people trying to come up with some clever
> wrapper to solve the problem they think you have <wink>).

That's hardly being fair.  I just checked back on the entire thread up 
to this point and, while I may have missed something, it doesn't appear
that _anyone_ suggested 'while 1' is either simple or intuitive.  

Various people have said it is the _idiomatic_ way of expressing the
required structure in Python, but that's not the same as saying it's
"Pythonic", IMHO.  I think that term is generally reserved for something
without the trace of ugliness that many of us seem to agree is present
here.

Neither did I notice anyone jumping on anyone else's back for suggesting
alternatives to 'while 1', just people pointing out reasons those 
suggestions likely won't be implemented (such as for indentation issues).

(Apologies in advance if calling you unfair seems to be an "ad hominem"
attack.  The nature of the medium tends to make comments intended as
merely sarcastic to appear much more personal than intended.  
Allowances need to be made when interpreting intent.)


From JamesL at Lugoj.Com  Fri Jan 19 00:16:51 2001
From: JamesL at Lugoj.Com (James Logajan)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 21:16:51 -0800
Subject: PSU uses emacs?
References: <948e4b$hm0$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <948fvj$oq1$1@panix6.panix.com>
Message-ID: <3A67CDC3.7EACB07D@Lugoj.Com>

Aahz Maruch wrote:
> vi

Viva vi!


From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Tue Jan  9 13:46:18 2001
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 18:46:18 +0000
Subject: mxTools (was Re: why no "do : until"?)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0101092015010.5204-100000@fep132.fep.ru>
References: <Iw5jLKALa0W6Ewjq@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
 <Pine.LNX.4.30.0101092015010.5204-100000@fep132.fep.ru>
Message-ID: <lhl4PRA6x1W6EwXy@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>

In message <Pine.LNX.4.30.0101092015010.5204-100000 at fep132.fep.ru>, Oleg
Broytmann <phd at phd.pp.ru> writes
>On Tue, 9 Jan 2001, Robin Becker wrote:
>> SQL modules are even less essential in the core.
>
>   'fcourse :) But it is essential to give them all a common ground to
>represent date/time in a standard way. If mxDateTime would not in the core,
>many modules will use different incompatible represenatation :(
>
...
There are a potentially infinite number of types/classes/modules which
can be considered as essential if they are required for consistency in
more than one other module.

What percentage of modules really needs mxDateTime? The answer is of
course 0% or 100% depending on your point of view. The cup is too full
for me and too empty for you.

If the leadership gives way on one then it sets a precedent for others. 
-- 
Robin Becker



From tim.one at home.com  Wed Jan 31 04:51:17 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 04:51:17 -0500
Subject: xor operator?
In-Reply-To: <3A76F635.822A26C2@divalsim.it>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCKEGCIMAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Greg Wilson]
> LOL! I grepped through SmallEiffel's standard library and found one
> place where the boolean xor was used: in part of a contract.

[Nicola Musatti]
> And was it really more expressive than a (very probably) equivalent
> "!=" would have been?

In Eiffel, yes:  logical expressions play a much larger role in Eiffel than
in most other languages, and in some contexts are even auto-extracted into
the docs.  "A xor B" communicates "exactly one of A and B must hold" more
clearly than "whether A holds is not equal to whether B holds".  That's
important there.  Eiffel has an infix "implies" operator for the same
reason.

but-eiffel-isn't-python-ly y'rs  - tim




From grey at despair.rpglink.com  Sat Jan 20 05:31:19 2001
From: grey at despair.rpglink.com (Steve Lamb)
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 10:31:19 -0000
Subject: Tabbing/Spaces
References: <B68E060D.901B%bobhicks@adelphia.net> <mtzogn9rpx.fsf@astron.berkeley.edu> <ivcZcLAtwLa6Ew2r@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <mtu26v9iwm.fsf@astron.berkeley.edu> <slrn96ipbi.oul.quinn@groat.ugcs.caltech.edu>
Message-ID: <slrn96iq7n.r8o.grey@teleute.dmiyu.org>

On 20 Jan 2001 10:16:18 GMT, Quinn Dunkan <quinn at groat.ugcs.caltech.edu> wrote:
>Unless you use proportional fonts.

    Who codes in proportional?

-- 
         Steve C. Lamb         | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your
         ICQ: 5107343          | main connection to the switchboard of souls.
-------------------------------+---------------------------------------------


From max at alcyone.com  Tue Jan 16 12:40:33 2001
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 09:40:33 -0800
Subject: My first script (so go easy on me!)
References: <B689D7B0.8ABF%bobhicks@adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <3A648791.F283CB5@alcyone.com>

Robert L Hicks wrote:

> Is this ok?

It works, though I'd do a safer comparison with actual strings, like:

    if answer == 'yes':
        print r
    elif answer == 'no':
        print w
    else:
        print n

Note what happens in your program if you answer `nope' instead of `no'. 
You could also just key off the first character:

    if answer[0] == 'y':
        print r
    elif answer[0] == 'n':
        print w
    ...

You also don't particularly gain anything in this tiny example by saving
the strings you want to print off into variables that you use later,
although in what you're planning to do, it might make sense eventually;
it's certainly not wrong.

> My question is when the print statement is run do I need
> to do a
> linefeed so the terminal accepts what was printed? Or does the fact
> that
> python send the print to the terminal cause the terminal to execute
> it?

An unadorned print statement implicitly has a newline stuck to the end
of it, and comma-separated items are printed with intervening spaces. 
So you can write things like:

    i = 10
    print "The number of items left is", i

To suppress the trailing newline, end with a comma (but it will end with
a trailing space):

    print "Do you want to quit?",

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, US / 37 20 N 121 53 W / ICQ16063900 / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ I am the king of sorrow
\__/ Sade
    Official Buh rules / http://www.alcyone.com/max/projects/cards/buh/
 The official rules to the betting card game, Buh.


From herrk at no-sp-am.hotmail.org  Wed Jan 17 17:38:53 2001
From: herrk at no-sp-am.hotmail.org (Kasper Steensgaard)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 23:38:53 +0100
Subject: Formmail
Message-ID: <hOo96.336$r4.15693@news.get2net.dk>

Anybody knows where I can find a mirror, which contains the formmail
announced at the panaussus. The page seems to be down

Thanks on advance !

/Kasper


From joejava at dragonat.net  Sat Jan  6 18:30:15 2001
From: joejava at dragonat.net (Joel Ricker)
Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2001 18:30:15 -0500
Subject: What makes Python Python (was: OO in Python (was Re: Migrating to perl?))
References: <3Fa56.4580$of7.216286@news1.atl> <934ghv02hg0@news2.newsguy.com> <3284C8A2D218D5A4.904FDBE7634A2E21.13E03F073E968847@lp.airnews.net> <934noe02o73@news2.newsguy.com> <200101051648.KAA49133@starbase.neosoft.com> <936qce0p55@news1.newsguy.com> <m6G56.2070$4Z.109716@news2.atl> <937q8r01q91@news1.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <CWN56.2371$4Z.127056@news2.atl>

Alex Martelli wrote in message <937q8r01q91 at news1.newsguy.com>...

>If _I_ 'designed' it that way, then, trust me, it _would_ be
>an unholy mess (and it seems to me that about 50% of the
>specific languages you list could be similarly described, but
>I'm not going to say WHICH 50% so nobody can accuse me
>of 'unprovoked' P*** bashing!-).  Which is what makes the
>strong self-consistency of Python notable (clearly, I think, it
>_wasn't_ JUST 'cherry-picking', despite many aspects having
>their parallels in other languages, some because of direct
>inspiration, some because of common roots, and others yet
>for independently developed similar solutions to similar issues).


Well since I've been P*** bashing myself quite a bit since I started up this
thread a few days ago, I think I should rectify myself and mention that the
original P*** had promise and did what the creator set out to do -- Thats
why its called Practical *xtraction *eport *anguage but has somehow lost its
way.

This is all I'm going to say on that for awhile.  Just in case I don't like
Python so much and have to go crawling back :)  I don't think that will
happen though.

Update:  I've hadn't had a great deal of time to read the tutorial so I'm
only up to Chapter 5: More on Lists.  So far I haven't had to scream once,
curse, or yell once at malfunctioning code.  Big improvement!

Joel





From andreas at andreas-jung.com  Mon Jan 15 09:54:22 2001
From: andreas at andreas-jung.com (Andreas Jung)
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 15:54:22 +0100
Subject: pmz variable in html
In-Reply-To: <20010115111319.A2411@yetix.sz-sb.de>; from andreas@andreas-jung.com on Mon, Jan 15, 2001 at 11:13:19AM +0100
References: <93u9k7$ris$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <20010115111319.A2411@yetix.sz-sb.de>
Message-ID: <20010115155422.A4943@yetix.sz-sb.de>

On Mon, Jan 15, 2001 at 11:13:19AM +0100, Andreas Jung wrote:
It seems you enabled the restricted execution feature so it is
a feature not a bug. 

AND: please use a valid mailing adress when posting. 

Andreas



From pbjorn at uswest.net  Wed Jan  3 22:57:37 2001
From: pbjorn at uswest.net (Bjorn Pettersen)
Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 20:57:37 -0700
Subject: why no "do : until"?
References: <92jj3j$ff7$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <slrn94shbe.150.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <X8s36.2731$Qb7.305339@newsb.telia.net> <slrn94smds.150.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <FOt36.17$vd1.2224@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com> <slrn94t1vj.150.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <3A4E95FD.D6C737A7@engcorp.com> <slrn94tqkh.150.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <tpr46.7782$4c.597534@ruti.visi.com> <slrn954h6p.rgv.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <3A52AD6A.62D043A2@engcorp.com> <3A534367.36B1FD18@uswest.net> <slrn957j19.go.amk@207-172-36-81.s81.tnt6.ann.va.dialup.rcn.com>
Message-ID: <3A53F4B1.6227D241@uswest.net>

"A.M. Kuchling" wrote:

> On Wed, 03 Jan 2001 08:21:11 -0700, Bjorn Pettersen
> <pbjorn at uswest.net> wrote:
> >better in the other p-language group. The "while 1" loop seems to be
> >a holy cow in Python.
>
> Hardly; I consider it one of Python's design flaws, and have
> accordingly included it in my list of Python warts
> (http://www.amk.ca/python/writing/warts.html).  But I've managed to
> live with it this far, and don't wish for a do...while that often.

That was hardly a forceful condemnation of "while 1" <wink>. Try
suggesting on the list that you want something like:

   while line := fp.readline()
      ...

or

   repeat:
      ...
   until line != '\n'

and you'll have half a dozen people jumping on your back telling you that
"while 1" is simple, intuitive, and is the only Pythonic way to do things
(you'll have half a dozen other people trying to come up with some clever
wrapper to solve the problem they think you have <wink>).

I have a theory that the same people would tell us how everything you
wanted to do could be done with single inheritance if Python didn't have
MI.

If what you want to do can't be expressed directly in the language, and
the only reason people don't want to change it is because they're used to
the status quo, I feel justified in calling it a holy cow ;-)

you-should-add-print>>None-to-your-list'ly y'rs
-- bjorn




From dave at dogwood.com  Sun Jan 21 20:19:25 2001
From: dave at dogwood.com (Dave Cornejo)
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 01:19:25 GMT
Subject: CFV: comp.soft-sys.wxwindows
Message-ID: <980126365.16946@isc.org>

                     FIRST CALL FOR VOTES (of 2)
              unmoderated group comp.soft-sys.wxwindows

Newsgroups line:
comp.soft-sys.wxwindows	Discussions related to wxWindows framework.

Votes must be received by 23:59:59 UTC, 12 Feb 2001.

This vote is being conducted by a neutral third party.  Questions
about the proposed group should be directed to the proponent.

Proponent: Vadim Zeitlin <vadim at wxwindows.org>
Votetaker: Dave Cornejo <dave at dogwood.com>

RATIONALE: comp.soft-sys.wxwindows

This group should host the discussions about wxWindows (portable,
free framework for writing GUI and console applications in C++,
Python and Perl for a variety of platforms). wxWindows currently
has a number of very busy mailing lists, creating a newsgroup
should help people to participate in discussions about it without
being overwhelmed by the number of messages.

CHARTER: comp.soft-sys.wxwindows

The comp.soft-sys.wxwindows newsgroup should be used for any
discussions related to wxWindows framework without limitation to any
language (although only C++, Python and Perl are currently supported)
or platform (porting to a currently unsupported platform may be
discussed here).

Examples of correct postings include (but are not limited to) the
following subjects:

- questions related to using wxWindows
- discussion of current or future wxWindows developments
- bug reports and feature requests

Examples of unwelcome postings:

- questions about C or C++ language except when directly related to
  support for C++ feature or lack of thereof in wxWindows (e.g.
  "Should destructor of the base class be virtual?" is inappropriate
  while "How can I use exceptions with wxWindows?" is not).
- platform-specific programming questions unrelated to wxWindows
  (specifically questions about Win32 API are unwelcome)
- questions about using wxWindows answered in the FAQ
- long (more than a few lines) patches - they should be submitted
  instead to the patch manager at the project Web site

The newsgroup is not moderated. Posting of binaries and
advertisement is not allowed. As an exception, advertisement
is allowed for the announcement of products directly related to
wxWindows (either written for wxWindows or using wxWindows).

END CHARTER.

HOW TO VOTE:

Follow these instructions *exactly*!  Votes are counted by computer.
You should send E-MAIL (posts to a newsgroup are invalid) to:

    vote at dogwood.com

Please do not assume that just replying to this message will work.
Check the address before you mail your vote.  Your mail message
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You may also vote ABSTAIN (which records an empty vote) or CANCEL
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IMPORTANT VOTING PROCEDURE NOTES:

Standard Guidelines for voting apply.  One vote per person, one
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Votes mailed by WWW/HTML/CGI forms are considered to be anonymous
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be published in the final voting results post.

The purpose of a Usenet vote is to determine the genuine interest of
persons who would read a proposed newsgroup.  Soliciting votes from
disinterested parties defeats this purpose.  Please do not distribute
this CFV.  If you must, direct people to the official CFV as posted to
news.announce.newgroups.  Distributing pre-marked or otherwise edited
copies of this CFV is generally considered to be vote fraud.  When in
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DISTRIBUTION:

In addition to the groups named in the Newsgroups: header, the CFV
and the eventual RESULT posts will be mailed to these mailing lists:

Mailing list name: wxwindows-devel
Submission address: wxwindows-devel at lists.sourceforge.org
Request address (optional):

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-- 
Voting question & problems: Dave Cornejo <dave at dogwood.com>
Voting address: vote at dogwood.com


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Tue Jan 23 04:56:55 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 10:56:55 +0100
Subject: Random and whrandom
References: <94bj03$59v$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <3a6a3540.1976549@news.xo.com> <ei8q6t0ohuded1oiet6qe79e1eco529ote@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <94jkh0011gg@news1.newsguy.com>

"Tim Roberts" <timr at probo.com> wrote in message
news:ei8q6t0ohuded1oiet6qe79e1eco529ote at 4ax.com...
    [snip]
> whrandom is a linear congruential random number generator.  The properties

Well, not exactly -- it's a Wichmann-Hill (or rather 'the' W-H) RNG,
that is, 3 small linear congruential RNGs whose current values are
(normalized and) summed.  Still, that's doesnt affect your main
points, I think.


Alex





From dag at orion.no  Wed Jan 24 04:43:46 2001
From: dag at orion.no (Dag Sunde)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 09:43:46 GMT
Subject: Python cgi-script hangs when client terminates browser...
Message-ID: <mtxb6.5314$Yv.607127@juliett.dax.net>

We have a Python script that is started as a cgi-script
running under the Apache web-server. The script is (of
course) started by a client pressing a HTML-button in his
browser.

If the client get impatient, and terminates his browser
before the script is finished, Python and the script is
hanging on the server.

Python 1.5.2
Win32All 1.2.8
Apache 1.3.12

All running on WinNT 4.0 SP6a


Any ideas?

TIA...

Dag Sunde





From tim.one at home.com  Mon Jan  8 00:24:12 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 00:24:12 -0500
Subject: Execution of import (was Re: boolean xor)
In-Reply-To: <B43D149A9AB2D411971300B0D03D7E8B0FBD5B@natasha.auslabs.avaya.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCGEEGIHAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Delaney, Timothy]
> I think the real question here though is ... how much overhead is
> there in calling
>
> 	from operator import truch
>
> inside the function each time through (other than the first).
> There is some overhead in determining that the module is already
> imported (even though it should only be a dictionary lookup).

So time it!  That's easier than asking, and, even better, you'll believe the
result if you measure it yourself <0.9 wink>.

time.clock()-ly y'rs  - tim




From gustabares at my-deja.com  Wed Jan 17 19:05:19 2001
From: gustabares at my-deja.com (gustabares at my-deja.com)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 00:05:19 GMT
Subject: Slicing and offsets
Message-ID: <945bvp$thj$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

 I got a newbie question here...

>>> S = "spam"
>>> S[0]
's'
>>> S[1:]
'pam'
>>>

Why is it that when I slice S it's no longer the 0 offset anymore, but
now it is 1?

>>> S[0:]
'spam'

Thanks for any help and sorry for the simple question:)

Gus Tabares



Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From romberg at smaug.fsl.noaa.gov  Thu Jan 25 12:26:22 2001
From: romberg at smaug.fsl.noaa.gov (Mike Romberg)
Date: 25 Jan 2001 10:26:22 -0700
Subject: python-2.1 function attributes
References: <ul3snm8dfae.fsf@smaug.fsl.noaa.gov> <m3n1cgzvpj.fsf@atrus.jesus.cam.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <ul3ofwvbl1d.fsf@smaug.fsl.noaa.gov>

>>>>> " " == Michael Hudson <mwh21 at cam.ac.uk> writes:

     > I suspect if you can come up with a decent syntax, it will go
     > in.  I can't though.  Any ideas?

  Well... I don't know if this qualifies as decent.  But I'll put it
out there.  The thought I have is that perhaps default attributes
could be handled like variable/keyword arguments.  This would have the
nice feature of moving 'em out of the function body.  I suppose we
could use '***' to indicate that the named argument is really an
attribute which the given value.  Something like this:

def spam(a, ***attr1='val1', ***attr2='val2'):
    pass

  This would be the equivalent of:

def spam(a):
    pass

spam.attr1 = 'val1'
spam.attr2 = 'val2'


Thoughts?

Mike (romberg at fsl.noaa.gov)



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sat Jan  6 14:00:26 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2001 20:00:26 +0100
Subject: What makes Python Python (was: OO in Python (was Re: Migrating to perl?))
References: <3Fa56.4580$of7.216286@news1.atl> <934ghv02hg0@news2.newsguy.com> <3284C8A2D218D5A4.904FDBE7634A2E21.13E03F073E968847@lp.airnews.net> <934noe02o73@news2.newsguy.com> <200101051648.KAA49133@starbase.neosoft.com> <936qce0p55@news1.newsguy.com> <m6G56.2070$4Z.109716@news2.atl>
Message-ID: <937q8r01q91@news1.newsguy.com>

"Joel Ricker" <joejava at dragonat.net> wrote in message
news:m6G56.2070$4Z.109716 at news2.atl...
>
> Alex Martelli wrote in message <936qce0p55 at news1.newsguy.com>...
>
> >The really strange thing is, the various parts meld into a
> >whole that is greater than the sum of the parts!  If I
> >"designed" a language by cherry-picking thinks I liked from
> >others, the result would be sure to be an unholy mess.
>
> Not necessarily.  Its how we've come to have Python, or Perl, or a number
of

If _I_ 'designed' it that way, then, trust me, it _would_ be
an unholy mess (and it seems to me that about 50% of the
specific languages you list could be similarly described, but
I'm not going to say WHICH 50% so nobody can accuse me
of 'unprovoked' P*** bashing!-).  Which is what makes the
strong self-consistency of Python notable (clearly, I think, it
_wasn't_ JUST 'cherry-picking', despite many aspects having
their parallels in other languages, some because of direct
inspiration, some because of common roots, and others yet
for independently developed similar solutions to similar issues).


Alex





From grey at despair.rpglink.com  Thu Jan 18 21:07:03 2001
From: grey at despair.rpglink.com (Steve Lamb)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 02:07:03 -0000
Subject: Why is "as" not a keyword?
References: <3A679717.1328@loop.com>
Message-ID: <slrn96f8a7.il3.grey@teleute.rpglink.com>

On Thu, 18 Jan 2001 17:23:35 -0800, Jesse W <jessw at loop.com> wrote:
>Most people know about the functionality of the import statement that
> in IDLE, and import lights up as a keyword, but "as", which has to be
>there and is clearly part of the syntax, does not.  If this question has
>been answered already, pardon me; I have not seen the answer anywhere.

    What are you asking?  Just because an IDE (or editor) does not highlight a
word doesn't mean it isn't a keyword in the language.  In this case it sounds
like something to take up with IDLE's mantainer.

-- 
         Steve C. Lamb         | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your
         ICQ: 5107343          | main connection to the switchboard of souls.
-------------------------------+---------------------------------------------


From erno-news at erno.iki.fi  Thu Jan  4 03:41:33 2001
From: erno-news at erno.iki.fi (Erno Kuusela)
Date: 04 Jan 2001 10:41:33 +0200
Subject: Unexpected result for list operator "+="
References: <3A542778.E1BC06E3@bogusaddress.com> <mfW46.227356$U46.7026522@news1.sttls1.wa.home.com>
Message-ID: <kuae97ogjm.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>

In article <mfW46.227356$U46.7026522 at news1.sttls1.wa.home.com>, "Greg
Jorgensen" <gregj at pobox.com> writes: A

| You discovered the documented behavior. Assignment of immutable objects
| (numbers, strings, tuples) essentially makes a copy of the object.
| Assignment of mutable objects (lists, dictionaries) creates a new reference
| to the original object.

actually assignment is always just about references, even
with immutable objects.

  -- erno


From scarblac at pino.selwerd.nl  Wed Jan 10 12:17:26 2001
From: scarblac at pino.selwerd.nl (Remco Gerlich)
Date: 10 Jan 2001 17:17:26 GMT
Subject: escape sequences and string comparisons
References: <93cboe$ctj$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <93elo7$aoh$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <93f1rd$iv7$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <2wG66.4330$AH6.750256@newsc.telia.net> <93haki$c0h$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <slrn95p62f.5rk.scarblac@pino.selwerd.nl>

jkndeja at my-deja.com <jkndeja at my-deja.com> wrote in comp.lang.python:
> OK, perhaps I shouldn't have written 'RE' match above. What I was
> hoping/expecting is that this:
> 
> >>> import re
> >>> s = r'[123]'
> >>> r = re.escape(s)
> >>> r
> '\\[123\\]'
> >>> r == s
> 0
> >>>
> 
> or something similar, would give 1, not zero

But *why*? They're two different strings. You have a string that
contains the characters '[]', which are special in regexen. Then you
ask it to escape all the special regex characters. And then you want the
result to be not escaped?!

I am really confused now.

-- 
Remco Gerlich


From lee.reilly at ntlworld.com  Sun Jan 21 22:35:30 2001
From: lee.reilly at ntlworld.com (Lee)
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 03:35:30 +0000
Subject: creating variable names by adding 2 strings?
References: <3A6BAA32.370A2C00@ntlworld.com>
Message-ID: <3A6BAA82.56AD1F9A@ntlworld.com>

Lee wrote:

> Hi there,
>
> This is my first post here. I've got a problem, which I can find any
> solutions for using my books or docs on the WWW.

Should read "CAN'T FIND ANY SOLUTIONS FOR" ;-)

--
Lee Reilly
mailto:lee.reilly at ntlworld.com

????`????,,,,????`????,,,,????`????,,,,????`????,,,,

HAVE SKILLS; WILL TRAVEL.

I'm currently looking for an internship in the USA
in the field of web development. Ideally, I'm looking
for a placement for 3 to 18 months. Can you help?

More details, my resume, etc. @
http://homepages.strath.ac.uk/~aeu97172/

</shameless plug>




From rol9999 at attglobal.net  Mon Jan 29 10:43:04 2001
From: rol9999 at attglobal.net (Roland Schlenker)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 10:43:04 -0500
Subject: PSU uses emacs?
References: <948e4b$hm0$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <948fvj$oq1$1@panix6.panix.com> <3A67CDC3.7EACB07D@Lugoj.Com> <9490t009on@news2.newsguy.com> <3a685ef2.3403798@reading.news.pipex.net> <949rii0a76@news1.newsguy.com> <3a6eb2fa.2347467@reading.news.pipex.net> <mailman.980374351.22360.python-list@python.org> <3a7542d7.2738309@reading.news.pipex.net>
Message-ID: <3A758F88.3349FDAA@attglobal.net>

Ray Drew wrote:
> 
> On Wed, 24 Jan 2001 07:18:19 -0800, Neil Schemenauer <nas at arctrix.com>
> wrote:
> 
> >really necessary.  Here is the Python line from my .vimrc:
> >
> > au BufEnter *.py set sw=4 sts=4 et ai cindent cino=(0 cinkeys=!^F,o,O tw=74
> >
> >The cindent options make Vim indent similarly to python-mode in
> >Emacs.
> >
> >  Neil
> >
> 
> I'm now running with au BufEnter *.py set sw=4 sts=4 et ai cindent
> cino=(0 cinkeys=!^F,o,O tw=74 in my _vmrc file, but this is the
> behaviour I'm getting...
> 
> def fun(x):     (1)
>     if x:               (2)
>         y               (3)
>     else                (4)
> 
> after line 1, cursor is in leftmost position, I have to tab to indent
> the if block.
> after line 2, cursor under the i of if, I have to tab again for the
> next line.
> after line 3 , cursor is under the y. I now need to backtab for the
> else but can't use the backspace key to do it, I either have to hit
> the 'home' key to get to the start of the line and then tab my way
> back or switch to command mode and hit the 'h' key 4 times (or hit the
> left arrow key 4 times in 'insert' mode).
> 
> The behaviour I'd like is for the cursor to autoindent for lines 2 and
> 3 and for the backspace key to move me back a tab in line 4. Can I get
> gvim to work like this?
> 
> I've tried using si instead of ci and I've tried setting cinw to the
> python keywords that require indenting on the following line.
> 
> I've got syntax on.
> 
> Thanks for any help,
> 
> Ray

set autoindent          
set smartindent         
set cinwords=class,def,elif,else,except,finally,for,if,try,while
syntax on

Ray, this should handle indents for Python correctly.
It does have a nasty habit of moving a line starting with a # to the
first cloumn. I have not figured how to stop that yet.

I believe if you set both expandtabs and backspace=2, the backspce key
will not remove the indent. Since the indent now is a number of spaces.

Roland Schlenker


From dsh8290 at rit.edu  Thu Jan 11 07:51:01 2001
From: dsh8290 at rit.edu (D-Man)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 07:51:01 -0500
Subject: Reflection: Calling Methods Dynamically by Name
In-Reply-To: <93jken$pnr$1@news.inet.co.th>; from teep@inet.co.th on Thu, Jan 11, 2001 at 01:41:34PM +0700
References: <93jfur$9rj$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <93jken$pnr$1@news.inet.co.th>
Message-ID: <20010111075101.A16487@dman.rh.rit.edu>

On Thu, Jan 11, 2001 at 01:41:34PM +0700, Prateep Siamwalla wrote:
| Chad,
| 
| You will want to use getattr() and apply()
| 

Is it better to use getattr() and apply() than to use exec?

For example,

mc = MyClass()
funcname = "ProcessData"
args = ("Data", 1, 3)
exec( "mc." + funcname + "('Data' , 1 , 3 ) " )

-D




From moshez at zadka.site.co.il  Thu Jan 11 21:27:16 2001
From: moshez at zadka.site.co.il (Moshe Zadka)
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 04:27:16 +0200 (IST)
Subject: default arguments newbie question
In-Reply-To: <3A5CD60D.98CFAD33@alcyone.com>
References: <3A5CD60D.98CFAD33@alcyone.com>, <3a5cccca.77467843@localhost> <93ijpa$asp$1@panix3.panix.com>
Message-ID: <20010112022716.54356A82D@darjeeling.zadka.site.co.il>

On Wed, 10 Jan 2001 13:37:17 -0800, Erik Max Francis <max at alcyone.com> wrote:
> Aahz Maruch wrote:
> 
> > Yup.  Technically, you really want to write "if l is None", though; if
> > you don't actually care about it being precisely None, the common
> > idiom
> > is to write "if l".
> 
> Eh?  I don't see that.  Any value which is not None will compare unequal
> to None, correct?  Certainly this true for the fundamental types like
> strings, numbers, tuples, and lists:

But not for user-defined objects:

class FoolErik:

	def __cmp__(self, other):
		return cmp(None, other)

-- 
Moshe Zadka <sig at zadka.site.co.il>
This is a signature anti-virus. 
Please stop the spread of signature viruses!



From banksam at swanhill.net.au  Wed Jan 31 14:47:34 2001
From: banksam at swanhill.net.au (banksam at swanhill.net.au)
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 19:47:34 GMT
Subject: Installing Mandrake 7.2
Message-ID: <3a786a5a.162938@news.ruralnet.net.au>

When installing it crashed at the stage of making a boot floppy.  This
happened several times so then we tried a text install and skipped the
floppy.  That worked.  Then we tried making the floppy from within
Linux.  That crashed.  We tried formatting a floppy.  That worked ok.
Then we tried making a boot disk again.  The system crashed.  So we
tried making a boot disk manually with 

dd if=/boot/vmlinuz2.2....  of=dev/fd0 bs=8192 

I know this works.  I've done it before.  But the system I am talking
about crashed and then wouldn't reboot.

Has anyone else had similar problems?  Has anyone found a solution??

Arthur


From dsh8290 at rit.edu  Wed Jan  3 10:02:13 2001
From: dsh8290 at rit.edu (D-Man)
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2001 10:02:13 -0500
Subject: why no "do : until"?
In-Reply-To: <dWG46.7998$4c.647371@ruti.visi.com>; from grante@visi.com on Wed, Jan 03, 2001 at 02:45:29PM +0000
References: <92jj3j$ff7$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <92m9pm$d19$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <B3z36.122$9s1.18804@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com> <3A4EC5B1.8912E571@engcorp.com> <x8G36.156$9s1.31209@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com> <3A4F4B4D.ECD6B172@engcorp.com> <rBr46.7783$4c.597712@ruti.visi.com> <slrn9550fe.rvi.kc5tja@garnet.armored.net> <dWG46.7998$4c.647371@ruti.visi.com>
Message-ID: <20010103100213.A5065@westsidecnc.rh.rit.edu>

On Wed, Jan 03, 2001 at 02:45:29PM +0000, Grant Edwards wrote:
[...] 
> Personally, I find either style to be infinitely preferable to
> the K&R style:
> 
>  if (whatever) {
>    do something;
>    do something else;
>  } else {
>    yet another thing;
>  }
>   
> I simply can't read read code like that, and generally do an
> 'indent -gnu' on it before I try to figure out what's going on...  

It's too bad the Java people at Sun didn't learn this lesson yet.  ;-)

-D



From vecernik at aon.at  Thu Jan 25 02:34:47 2001
From: vecernik at aon.at (Oliver Vecernik)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 08:34:47 +0100
Subject: Data output
References: <3A6F05CD.D37C383B@aon.at> <94n1l9$ea9j2$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <3A6FD717.C1993E5D@aon.at>

Emile van Sebille wrote:
> 
> Here are some excerpts from a zope based label printing
> utility I set up last year under winnt work station:
>
> [...]
> 
> Hope this makes sense.  :-)

Absolutely! Works great. Thanks again.

Oliver


From ray_drew at yahoo.co.uk  Mon Jan 29 08:49:41 2001
From: ray_drew at yahoo.co.uk (Ray Drew)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 13:49:41 GMT
Subject: PSU uses emacs?
References: <948e4b$hm0$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <948fvj$oq1$1@panix6.panix.com> <3A67CDC3.7EACB07D@Lugoj.Com> <9490t009on@news2.newsguy.com> <3a685ef2.3403798@reading.news.pipex.net> <949rii0a76@news1.newsguy.com> <3a6eb2fa.2347467@reading.news.pipex.net> <mailman.980374351.22360.python-list@python.org> <3a7542d7.2738309@reading.news.pipex.net> <mailman.980768019.11600.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3a75744e.15403504@reading.news.pipex.net>

On Mon, 29 Jan 2001 22:32:26 +1100, Toby J Sargeant
<tjs at mail.csse.monash.edu.au> wrote:

>The keys you want are ^T and ^D. ^T adds a shiftwidth worth of indent, and
>^D removes one.
>
>Toby.
>

Many thanks,

I'm beginning to get the hang of it now.

Ray



From aahz at panix.com  Wed Jan 17 16:41:35 2001
From: aahz at panix.com (Aahz Maruch)
Date: 17 Jan 2001 13:41:35 -0800
Subject: Python and Industry
References: <20010111172342.10148.00000934@ng-ca1.aol.com>
Message-ID: <9453if$t7e$1@panix2.panix.com>

In article <20010111172342.10148.00000934 at ng-ca1.aol.com>,
Crutoy <crutoy at aol.com> wrote:
>
>Hi , does anyone know how widly in an instries does python being used ? I
>looked at the syntax of it and read some stuff on it,it's interested i just
>want to know if it's worth learning it. Thanks

Let's put it this way: I don't know of any competent Python programmers
who have difficulty finding work.
-- 
                      --- Aahz (Copyright 2001 by aahz at pobox.com)

Androgynous poly kinky vanilla queer het    <*>     http://www.rahul.net/aahz/
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6

A house is a machine to keep your cat dry.  --Aahz


From mwh21 at cam.ac.uk  Fri Jan 26 08:56:11 2001
From: mwh21 at cam.ac.uk (Michael Hudson)
Date: 26 Jan 2001 13:56:11 +0000
Subject: xor operator?
References: <mailman.980513551.5948.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m37l3ixvr8.fsf@atrus.jesus.cam.ac.uk>

Def P <def-p at usa.net> writes:

> I notice that there doesn't seem to be a boolean xor operator in
> Python. Does someone know the reasons behind this?

I suspect largely because C doesn't have one (do any reasonably
mainstream languages have one?  I can't think of any).  There was a
thread about this fairly recently that shouldn't be too hard to dig
up...

Cheers,
M.

-- 
  The ability to quote is a serviceable substitute for wit.
                                                -- W. Somerset Maugham


From pj at sgi.com  Wed Jan 31 18:46:59 2001
From: pj at sgi.com (Paul Jackson)
Date: 31 Jan 2001 23:46:59 GMT
Subject: Perl-to-Python converter/translator?
References: <959jsd$njn$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <3A7879FC.EA879C9B@bigfoot.de>
Message-ID: <95a85j$p1ce$1@fido.engr.sgi.com>

Gerhard wrote:
|> Maybe the Perl/Python phrasebook at
|> http://starship.python.net/~da/jak/cookbook.html is helpful
|> to you.  Intra-document links don't work. Does anybody know a
|> better version of this document?

Try a google.com search for "perl python phrasebook" for pointers
to such Perl-Python translators, and to other comparisons of
Perl and Python.
-- 
                          I won't rest till it's the best ...
                          Manager, Linux System Software
                          Paul Jackson <pj at sgi.com> 1.650.933.1373


From s2mdalle at titan.vcu.edu  Sun Jan  7 22:52:14 2001
From: s2mdalle at titan.vcu.edu (David Allen)
Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2001 03:52:14 GMT
Subject: Misc Tkinter questions
References: <fvz56.2322$bR3.555232@typhoon2.ba-dsg.net> <3d666.4421$Qb7.632024@newsb.telia.net>
Message-ID: <OPa66.5946$8O3.1331926@typhoon2.ba-dsg.net>

In article <3d666.4421$Qb7.632024 at newsb.telia.net>, "Fredrik Lundh"
<fredrik at effbot.org> wrote:
>> 3.) How do you fix the size of a window?  I'm using
>> a window that's a subclass of Tk, and I would like to know how to make it
>> so that if the widgets within the window shrink, the window stays the same
>> size.
>> (i.e. put a solid minimum size on the window, which
>> can grow)
> 
> "minsize" (see "Toplevel Window Methods, Window
> Geometry Methods")

Thanks very much for all of your answers, they were
very helpful.

On this item here though, I have a class which extends
Tk, and when I call self.minsize(500, 500) the
window still seems to size itself automatically
down much smaller than this size when the widgets
I pack into it don't require that much size.

Using xwininfo, I can see that horizontally, it 
never goes below 500, but vertically, it does.  Is
there anything else that I should be looking for?
Having the size of the window constantly jumping
around is very visually distracting.

-- 
David Allen
http://opop.nols.com/
----------------------------------------
"An election is nothing more than an advance auction of stolen goods"
	-- Ambrose Bierce


From sbalu at nyx.net  Mon Jan 22 11:51:15 2001
From: sbalu at nyx.net (sarayu balu)
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 16:51:15 GMT
Subject: Neophyte looking for good books on Python
References: <94ak66$dra$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <94aulr$m1o$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <980023572.27042@iris.nyx.net> <cVma6.7845$AH6.1243898@newsc.telia.net>
Message-ID: <980184517.220087@iris.nyx.net>

Fredrik Lundh <fredrik at effbot.org> wrote:

: ...on the other hand, the first edition is nearly five years old,
: and the new edition is rumoured to be a complete rewrite...

: Cheers /F

Probably, I should not complain about this book since it has been
5 years. Sorry.
-SB


From dhirja at vsnl.net  Tue Jan 23 10:24:18 2001
From: dhirja at vsnl.net (Dhirja Gangopadhyay)
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 20:54:18 +0530
Subject: WhatamI doing wrong ? (re: About Content-Transfer-Encoding)
Message-ID: <01dc01c08550$9c3a05a0$020000c3@node02>

I did the following few things in this:

I found on a Google Search -
http://www.linuxsolutions.demon.co.uk/PythonPages2.html
    subwriter = w.nextpart()
    subwriter.addheader("Content-Transfer-Encoding", "base64")
    subwriter.addheader("Content-Disposition", 'attachment; filename="%s"' %
_fileName)
    f = subwriter.startbody('application/octet-stream; name="%s"' %
_fileName)
    subwriter.flushheaders()
    base64.encode(open('./%s' % _fileName, 'r'), f)
    w.lastpart()

Where I learnt to change my:

    listLines = ['zxczxc','werwerwer']
    subwriter = w.nextpart()
    f = subwriter.startbody('text/html')
    subwriter.flushheaders()
    f.writelines(listLines)
    w.lastpart()

To:

    def mthEncoder(lstLines):
        import base64
        tmpList = []
        for lstLine in lstLines:
            tmpList.append(base64.stringencode(lstLine))
        return tmpList

    listLines = ['zxczxc','werwerwer']
    subwriter = w.nextpart()
    subwriter.addheader("Content-Transfer-Encoding", "base64")
    subwriter.addheader("Content-Disposition", 'inline')
    f = subwriter.startbody('text/html')
    subwriter.flushheaders()
    f.writelines(mthEncoder(listLines))
    w.lastpart()

Works fine on the server. The e-mail goes out.

But when received on the Outlook Express 5.5 client, the strings are all
mangled.
I cant figure out why. What am I doing Wrong ?

Thanks

Sandipan

PS. I am using Dhirja's account as my ISP's SMTP server is down !

----- Original Message -----
From: "Dhirja Gangopadhyay" <dhirja at vsnl.net>
To: <python-list at python.org>
Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2001 7:32 PM
Subject: About Content-Transfer-Encoding


> I use the MimeWriter module to build a MIME body that I then send over
SMTP
> using smtplib.
>
> How can I force content-transfer-encoding to base64 ?
> Content-type is text/plain, text/html and text/xml.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Sandipan
>
>
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>





From nas at arctrix.com  Tue Jan 16 08:09:19 2001
From: nas at arctrix.com (Neil Schemenauer)
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 05:09:19 -0800
Subject: using __init__ with params ( somewhat long )
In-Reply-To: <slrn969988.5uj.corey@scanner.axcelerant.com>; from corey@axcelerant.com on Tue, Jan 16, 2001 at 07:19:21PM +0000
References: <slrn969988.5uj.corey@scanner.axcelerant.com>
Message-ID: <20010116050919.A8365@glacier.fnational.com>

On Tue, Jan 16, 2001 at 07:19:21PM +0000, Corey wrote:
> I'm not quite sure how to go about defining a "proper" Python class 
> constructor, where the user can optionaly pass a parameter, or multiple 
> parameters at instantiation, as a shortcut to initializing the object's
> attributes in one pass, rather than using multiple 'set' methods after
> instantiation.

Here is one (untested) solution:

    def MyClass:
        def __init__(self, **kwargs):
            for name, value in kwargs.items():
                setattr(self, name, value)
            
Cheers,

  Neil



From jerryleekeeney at yahoo.com  Sun Jan 28 18:57:58 2001
From: jerryleekeeney at yahoo.com (jerry keeney)
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 15:57:58 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Python on Win 98
Message-ID: <20010128235758.73025.qmail@web9603.mail.yahoo.com>

Instead of using the interactive interpreter, use the
'msdos' window:
start - program files - ms dos window.

Go to your location of python (ie
f:/programfiles/python)

and type:

python yourpythonfilename.py




It just doesn't work: it gives me an error message
like:

File "<stdin>", line 1
    c:\programming\python20>python hello.py
     ^
SyntaxError: invalid syntax

so what do I do???


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. 
http://auctions.yahoo.com/



From dsh8290 at rit.edu  Tue Jan  2 17:57:31 2001
From: dsh8290 at rit.edu (D-Man)
Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2001 17:57:31 -0500
Subject: Which Python homesite to refer people to ?
In-Reply-To: <t54m15jjlqs310@corp.supernews.com>; from jasonic@nomadicsltd.com on Tue, Jan 02, 2001 at 05:40:34PM -0500
References: <t54m15jjlqs310@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <20010102175731.A2307@westsidecnc.rh.rit.edu>

On Tue, Jan 02, 2001 at 05:40:34PM -0500, Jason Cunliffe wrote:
> I have been evangelizing Python to some people, who then ask me wha' the
> URL?
> 
> I hesitated a second before saying http://www.python.org
> 
> Since the Python Y2K upheavals = CNRI->BeOpen->DigitalCreations...Is this
> still true?

Yes, this is the URL.  The difference is where the computer that the
URL refers to has changed, but not the URL.





From johngrayson at home.com  Tue Jan 30 14:19:51 2001
From: johngrayson at home.com (John Grayson)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 19:19:51 GMT
Subject: Tkinter: button image not displayed!?
References: <956h9g$5gl$1@news.tpi.pl>
Message-ID: <95744c$j00$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

In article <956h9g$5gl$1 at news.tpi.pl>,
  "Tomasz Lisowski" <lisowski.tomasz at sssa.NOSPAM.com.pl> wrote:

## ------  the problem  lies somewhere below -------
Button(fr, image=PhotoImage(file="H:\\Back.gif", master=fr), command =
f).grid(row=0, column=3, padx=2)
Button(fr, text="Add", width=7, command=f).grid(row=1, column=0, padx=2)
Button(fr, text="Walk", width=7, command=f).grid(row=1, column=1,
padx=2) Button(fr, text="Exit", width=7,
command=master.destroy).grid(row=1, column=2, padx=2)
Button(fr, image=PhotoImage(file="H:\\Forward.gif", master=fr), command
= f).grid(row=1, column=3, padx=2)
fr.grid(row=0, column=4, rowspan=2, sticky=E, pady=4)
>
>

Yes, it does!

You have to keep the image you create aroung, so that
it does not go out of scope and get garbage-collected: fix the code
something like this:

img1 = PhotoImage(file="H:\\Back.gif", master=fr)
Button(fr, image=img1, command = f).grid(row=0, column=3, padx=2)

Button(fr, text="Add", width=7, command=f).grid(row=1, column=0, padx=2)
Button(fr, text="Walk", width=7, command=f).grid(row=1, column=1,
       padx=2)
Button(fr, text="Exit", width=7,
       command=master.destroy).grid(row=1, column=2, padx=2)
img2 = PhotoImage(file="H:\\Forward.gif", master=fr)
Button(fr, image=img2, command = f).grid(row=1, column=3, padx=2)

fr.grid(row=0, column=4, rowspan=2, sticky=E, pady=4)

  John


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From dsh8290 at rit.edu  Mon Jan  8 16:14:57 2001
From: dsh8290 at rit.edu (D-Man)
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 16:14:57 -0500
Subject: Web devel with python. Whats the best route?
In-Reply-To: <m3puhxecqa.fsf@paci.nautilus>; from lele@seldati.it on Tue, Jan 09, 2001 at 02:27:41AM +0100
References: <mailman.978910629.6814.python-list@python.org> <93cqvi0191h@news1.newsguy.com> <mailman.978985688.26505.python-list@python.org> <93dfft077p@news1.newsguy.com> <mailman.979000510.4052.python-list@python.org> <m3puhxecqa.fsf@paci.nautilus>
Message-ID: <20010108161457.A4778@dman.rh.rit.edu>

On Tue, Jan 09, 2001 at 02:27:41AM +0100, Lele Gaifax wrote:
| >>>>> On Mon, 8 Jan 2001 14:33:43 -0500, D-Man <dsh8290 at rit.edu> said:
| 
|     D> On Mon, Jan 08, 2001 at 11:30:26PM +0100, Alex Martelli wrote:
|     D> | "Lele Gaifax" <lele at seldati.it> wrote in message | | > PS:
|     D> Alex, un ciao particolare! Ti ricordi di me? Sublink... :) | |
|     D> E vorrei vedere, che ci si potesse scordare della gloriosa
|     D> sublink.org e | di tutti i suoi protagonisti...!-) Ciao Lele!
|     D> |
| 
|     D> You do realize that it's impolite to "whisper" in public?  Now
|     D> I'm curious to know what you are talking about.  But maybe it's
|     D> my own fault for being "deaf" <wink>.
| 
| Sorry, my fault: I was only saying "hello" to a good&old friend. I
| thought it was clear... after all, "ciao" *is* international, isn't 
| it ?-)

I wasn't seriously complaining.  :-)  If I studied Italian then I
would have understood on my own.

| Roughly: `Hi, do you remember me?' - `Yes, of course'.
| 
| bye, lele.
| -- 

-D




From mail at codex.pe.kr  Fri Jan  5 10:49:04 2001
From: mail at codex.pe.kr (Ahn, Jae-wook)
Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2001 00:49:04 +0900
Subject: How to DECREF an Python object to return?
Message-ID: <934qg0$l07$1@news1.kornet.net>

Hi.

I wrote a C extension module that recieves a string and extracts some nouns
(in Korean) from the string and return them. The group of nouns to return is
a tuple, and the number of elements varies depending on the source string.

So I created a tuple object and returned it using Py_BuildValue. The module
returned the value I wanted, but because I created a Python object for the
tuple, I have to free (Py_DECREF) the memory it occupies.

My question is in what point I can free it? The function works like this.

1. recieves a sentence.
2. extracts nouns from it
3. create a tuple object
4. set the elements for the tuple
5. return the tuple object ( return PyBuildValue("O", tuple) )

Because I want the tuple get returned, I can't free it before returning it,
but after I return it, the function I created finishes. How can I get the
tuple back and free the memory?







From nas at arctrix.com  Wed Jan 24 10:18:19 2001
From: nas at arctrix.com (Neil Schemenauer)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 07:18:19 -0800
Subject: PSU uses emacs?
In-Reply-To: <3a6eb2fa.2347467@reading.news.pipex.net>; from ray_drew@yahoo.co.uk on Wed, Jan 24, 2001 at 10:56:42AM +0000
References: <948e4b$hm0$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <948fvj$oq1$1@panix6.panix.com> <3A67CDC3.7EACB07D@Lugoj.Com> <9490t009on@news2.newsguy.com> <3a685ef2.3403798@reading.news.pipex.net> <949rii0a76@news1.newsguy.com> <3a6eb2fa.2347467@reading.news.pipex.net>
Message-ID: <20010124071819.A32266@glacier.fnational.com>

On Wed, Jan 24, 2001 at 10:56:42AM +0000, Ray Drew wrote:
> I'm having problems getting the indentation right with gvim. I've got
> the following in my .vmrc file:
> 
> au FileType py set ts=4
> au FileType py set sw=4
> au FileType py set expandtab on 
> au FileType py set ff=unix

Changing ts to anything other than 8 is a bad idea.  Luckily Vim
has the sts variable.  Use that instead.  The ff option is not
really necessary.  Here is the Python line from my .vimrc:

 au BufEnter *.py set sw=4 sts=4 et ai cindent cino=(0 cinkeys=!^F,o,O tw=74

The cindent options make Vim indent similarly to python-mode in
Emacs.

  Neil



From kirschh at lionbioscience.com  Thu Jan 18 02:44:56 2001
From: kirschh at lionbioscience.com (Harald Kirsch)
Date: 18 Jan 2001 08:44:56 +0100
Subject: How to close all files between fork and exec?
References: <yv27l3upooj.fsf@lionsp093.lion-ag.de> <9463d9$eif$1@panix6.panix.com>
Message-ID: <yv27l3t483r.fsf@lionsp093.lion-ag.de>

aahz at panix.com (Aahz Maruch) writes:

> In article <yv27l3upooj.fsf at lionsp093.lion-ag.de>,
> Harald Kirsch  <kirschh at lionbioscience.com> wrote:
> >
> >Python has fork/exec. I want to use it. After fork and before exec I
> >would like the child process to close all files other than 0, 1 and 2
> >(i.e. standard input/output/error). 
> 
> Why not simply keep track of all open files in a dict or list?

Thereby duplicating the work the operating system does anyway? And how
would a module for forking special processes keep track of the files
opened by the main program calling it? Hmm...

  Harald Kirsch.
-- 
----------------+------------------------------------------------------
Harald Kirsch   | kirschh at lionbioscience.com | "How old is the epsilon?"
LION Bioscience | +49 6221 4038 172          |        -- Paul Erd?s
       *** Please do not send me copies of your posts. ***


From dsh8290 at rit.edu  Fri Jan  5 16:50:07 2001
From: dsh8290 at rit.edu (D-Man)
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 16:50:07 -0500
Subject: Whose functions are realer (was: Migrating to perl?)
In-Reply-To: <356AB932B7198FB4.3EC0B75D519810CE.57FCF0BC6A8679C4@lp.airnews.net>; from claird@starbase.neosoft.com on Fri, Jan 05, 2001 at 11:30:28AM -0600
References: <V%c56.4648$of7.221797@news1.atl> <3Fa56.4580$of7.216286@news1.atl> <mailman.978670867.31055.python-list@python.org> <mailman.978711967.28730.python-list@python.org> <356AB932B7198FB4.3EC0B75D519810CE.57FCF0BC6A8679C4@lp.airnews.net>
Message-ID: <20010105165007.A29386@westsidecnc.rh.rit.edu>

On Fri, Jan 05, 2001 at 11:30:28AM -0600, Cameron Laird wrote:
| Yes, I can imagine there are historical reasons Perlites backtick
| rather freely.

I can't say for sure, but this feature probably came from bash.  In
bash using a backtick means to execute the command and put its stdout
here.

-D




From kragen at dnaco.net  Tue Jan  2 04:26:19 2001
From: kragen at dnaco.net (Kragen Sitaker)
Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2001 09:26:19 GMT
Subject: A single, general looping construct? (was: why no "do : until"?)
References: <92jj3j$ff7$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <3A4EC5B1.8912E571@engcorp.com> <x8G36.156$9s1.31209@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com> <92qc21$538$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <%8h46.7766$uq.157707@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>

In article <92qc21$538$1 at nnrp1.deja.com>,  <rturpin at my-deja.com> wrote:
>A couple of decades ago, when the programming journals
>were full of arguments about the "right" control
>statements for structured programming, someone proposed
>a single iteration statement that generalized (a) the
>"while" statement, (b) the "do .. until" statement,
>and (c) the loop with an exit in the middle. I forget
>where the paper appeared, the name of the author, and
>the exact syntax.

It was "Structured Programming With Go To Statements", Knuth, Computing
Surveys, Vol. 6, No. 4, 1974, pp. 261-301 (unconfirmed).  I cited it in
another article in this thread.  The syntax was "loop" statements
"while" condition statements "end".
-- 
<kragen at pobox.com>       Kragen Sitaker     <http://www.pobox.com/~kragen/>
Perilous to all of us are the devices of an art deeper than we possess
ourselves.
       -- Gandalf the White [J.R.R. Tolkien, "The Two Towers", Bk 3, Ch. XI]




From tbryan at python.net  Sat Jan 20 23:50:11 2001
From: tbryan at python.net (Thomas A. Bryan)
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 23:50:11 -0500
Subject: PSU uses emacs?
References: <948e4b$hm0$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <usnmg9gws.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com>
Message-ID: <3A6A6A83.1645FFD6@python.net>

David Bolen wrote:
> 
> Chris Ryland <cpr at emsoftware.com> writes:
> 
> > Why do I have the sinking feeling that, with all the talk about IDEs
> > for Python, that the cognoscenti all use Emacs with python-mode and a
> > shell window? ;-)
> 
> You mean there's any other way to do Python development?

You mean there's another editor?

---Tom


From mal at lemburg.com  Thu Jan 25 05:42:06 2001
From: mal at lemburg.com (M.-A. Lemburg)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 11:42:06 +0100
Subject: Modifying .htpasswd from Python?
References: <90312091gustaflalgonetse@194.213.69.148>
Message-ID: <3A7002FE.2E1AB5CD@lemburg.com>

Gustaf Liljegren wrote:
> 
> This can be done easily in Perl, using the crypt() function. Now I need a
> Python function doing exactly the same encryption as the htpasswd command.
> Have tried to interact directly with the command, using the commands
> module, but since adding a user is a three step process, it didn't worked.

The crypt function is available in Python too: by means of
the crypt module. However, this module is optional and has
to be enabled in Modules/Setup to get compiled.
 
> Regards,
> 
> Gustaf Liljegren

-- 
Marc-Andre Lemburg
______________________________________________________________________
Company:                                        http://www.egenix.com/
Consulting:                                    http://www.lemburg.com/
Python Pages:                           http://www.lemburg.com/python/



From robin at alldunn.com  Wed Jan 24 15:45:26 2001
From: robin at alldunn.com (Robin Dunn)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 12:45:26 -0800
Subject: what GUI, please advise
References: <3A6F18F2.536F27FE@crepido.com>, <3A6F0B27.A88D11C9@crepido.com> <756399CF731B46D9.57530C0D0C9C2171.472E737DF76189F7@lp.airnews.net> <mailman.980360668.7701.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <%aHb6.34$4vh.3735820@news.randori.com>

"Moshe Zadka" <moshez at zadka.site.co.il> wrote in message news:mailman.980360668.7701.python-list at python.org...
> 
> Check out wxPython and Tkinter. I think Boa-Constructor is a gui
> builder for wxWindows, 

For a few bucks there's also wxDesigner, which is real solid and can generate code for Python, C++, <cough>Perl</cough> as well as the upcoming XML resource format

> but you might have more trouble building
> it on exotic platforms.

This is getting better than it used to be before switching to distutils.

--
Robin Dunn
Software Craftsman
robin at AllDunn.com       Java give you jitters?
http://wxPython.org      Relax with wxPython!




From tim.one at home.com  Thu Jan  4 21:47:41 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 21:47:41 -0500
Subject: JPython 2.0 Anyone???
In-Reply-To: <932v2b0rpg@news2.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCAENBIGAA.tim.one@home.com>

[posted & mailed]

[Benjamin Scherrey]
> Is there any 2.0 support going on for JPython? It seems that
> there's not a lot of new development going on in this area.

CNRI doesn't appear to be doing anything with JPython anymore.  That's the
bad news.  The good news is that Finn Bock and Barry Warsaw forked the
project, renamed it to Jython (the CNRI license did not allow them to
continue using the name JPython), and moved it to SourceForge:

    http://jython.sourceforge.net/

> I happen to be using some python 2.0 features and Jpython doesn't
> like 2.0 compiled libraries. I get:
> File "/usr/local/lib/python2.0/site.py", line 63
>         dir = os.path.join(*paths)
>         invalid syntax
> I presume that until 2.0 support is implemented that I'm out of
> luck?  If so, how long til I'm back in luck do you expect? :-)

Jython 2.0 beta 1 was released just about a week ago.  Finn worked like a
madman to add the new CPython 2.0 language features -- I can't swear they're
all in the beta, but at least almost all of them are.  If you find bugs or
incompatibilities, see the SourceForge site above for the Jython bug system
and Jython mailing list.

still-a-great-cup-of-joe-no-matter-the-name-ly y'rs  - tim




From ehagemann at home.com  Tue Jan 30 06:12:33 2001
From: ehagemann at home.com (Eric Hagemann)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 11:12:33 GMT
Subject: Calling an exe within Python
References: <20010129215504.07374.00004165@ng-fi1.aol.com>
Message-ID: <Bkxd6.53310$B6.14710700@news1.rdc1.md.home.com>

Wayne

    Try os.system -- it waits for a return

   Cheers

"Dockeen" <dockeen at aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010129215504.07374.00004165 at ng-fi1.aol.com...
> If I were to use Python as a controller / integrator for a number of
> stand-alone executables, then I would need to call those exe files from
within
> Python
>
> (1) Easy question, is this possible?
> (2) When I do such a call, does execution within the Python script wait
for the
> exe to finish or does it spawn a new threat for the exe and move on?
>
> Wayne
>
> However dumb you think my questions are, they are nowhere near as
> intellectually challenged as I am.




From shredwheat at mediaone.net  Fri Jan 19 02:52:38 2001
From: shredwheat at mediaone.net (Pete Shinners)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 07:52:38 GMT
Subject: little standalone windows game
Message-ID: <anS96.74518$y9.13600919@typhoon.we.rr.com>

i've been hunting solutions to get standalone running
executables on windows. (hmm, not alone, am i?)

after finding that nothing works for 2.0, i went ahead
and started working out my own solution. i started with
the nice project by Neil Schemenauer for a standalone
python 1.5.

i took the work there and upped everything to work with
2.0, then threw my little pygame project into it to see
what happens.

the good news is it all works. it doesn't really turn
python into a single .EXE, but it does create a set of
files that can run your python code standalone.

the final installer for my test game, "Aliens" is here;
http://pygame.seul.org/ftp/Aliens_Setup.exe


it sounds like enough people are interested in something
like this. i'm planning to release a 'skeleton' version of
this type of package so anyone can release a python program
like this. this solution isn't too pretty for small little
utilities, but for bigger projects it seems to balance a
bit nicer.

unix users aren't in the cold, the aliens example is included
with the pygame install. more info at http://pygame.seul.org






From wagnernils at hotmail.com  Sat Jan  6 14:56:39 2001
From: wagnernils at hotmail.com (Nils Wagner)
Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2001 19:56:39 -0000
Subject: Fwd: Recompilation of Vpython
Message-ID: <F73yRLVbNDN4CxpAOAk00005430@hotmail.com>




>From: "Nils Wagner" <wagnernils at hotmail.com>
>To: python-help at python.org
>CC: wagnernils at hotmail.com
>Subject: Recompilation of Vpython
>Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2001 19:23:03 -0000
>
>Hi,
>
>I tried to recompile Vpython
>
>http://cil.andrew.cmu.edu/projects/visual/index.html
>
>for Linux (Kernel 2.2.16).
>Python version : Python 2.0 (#1, Oct 16 2000, 18:10:03)
>[GCC 2.95.2 19991024 (release)] on linux2
>
>A make in cvisual/ produces the following messages (Makefile.res).
>
>Who can help me ?
>
>Nils

_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.
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From andreas at andreas-jung.com  Mon Jan 15 16:42:13 2001
From: andreas at andreas-jung.com (Andreas Jung)
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 22:42:13 +0100
Subject: Beginner's question - class definition
In-Reply-To: <3a6366a8.4537644@news.ruralnet.net.au>; from banksam@swanhill.net.au on Mon, Jan 15, 2001 at 09:14:20PM +0000
References: <3a6366a8.4537644@news.ruralnet.net.au>
Message-ID: <20010115224213.A31431@yetix.sz-sb.de>

On Mon, Jan 15, 2001 at 09:14:20PM +0000, banksam at swanhill.net.au wrote:
> Can anyone explain please why the following definition ( from the
> Python documentation)
> 
> class Complex:
> 	def _init_(self, realpart, imagpart):
> 		self.r = realpart
> 		self.i = imagpart
> 
> when followed by the following attempt to create an instance
> 
> x = Complex(3.0,-4.5)

Stupid typo ! The constructor is __init__(self,...) 

Andreas 



From dsh8290 at rit.edu  Wed Jan 10 20:59:33 2001
From: dsh8290 at rit.edu (D-Man)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 20:59:33 -0500
Subject: is Python fully object oriented ?
In-Reply-To: <93iuqb$rn9$1@panix3.panix.com>; from aahz@panix.com on Wed, Jan 10, 2001 at 04:30:03PM -0800
References: <20010110184830.13286.00000826@ng-fg1.aol.com> <93iuqb$rn9$1@panix3.panix.com>
Message-ID: <20010110205933.B14598@dman.rh.rit.edu>

On Wed, Jan 10, 2001 at 04:30:03PM -0800, Aahz Maruch wrote:
| In article <20010110184830.13286.00000826 at ng-fg1.aol.com>,
| Crutoy <crutoy at aol.com> wrote:
| >
| >Hi , i haven't used Python but i do have experience in other languages vb ,
| >java , c++ . Is Python a fully object oriented ? Thanks
| 
| Python is fully object oriented if you consider Java and C++ to be fully
| object oriented.  If you don't consider those two fully object oriented,
| you may not consider Python to be fully object oriented.

Python also support free-standing functions, similar to C++.

-D




From gregj at pobox.com  Sun Jan  7 05:18:38 2001
From: gregj at pobox.com (Greg Jorgensen)
Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2001 10:18:38 GMT
Subject: Should I learn Python or Java?
References: <HEO56.5504$y9.2881293@typhoon.we.rr.com>
Message-ID: <2oX56.239387$U46.7507974@news1.sttls1.wa.home.com>

"Charlotte Williams" <charlottwilliams at mediaone.net> wrote in message
news:HEO56.5504$y9.2881293 at typhoon.we.rr.com...
> Hello,
>
>     I am a Visual Basic programmer who wants to increase his knowledge of
> programming languages.  Now that the curses, boos, and barrage of rotten
> fruit are out of the way, I would like to ask this group a few questions
> :-) ...

Learn them both. Every language I've ever taken the time to learn has been
worth the effort. In my 20+ years making money writing code, BASIC
(including VB) and SQL have been the most consistently valuable. Python is
one of the most fun. C and C++ are good for the long haul. No one has ever
paid me for knowing Scheme, but learning it paid off in other ways. I used
to make money writing code in Fortran, COBOL, and Pascal. I can read and
write simple Java programs, and I'm digging into J2EE now because of the job
market.

Every language you learn makes the next one easier. Try Python until you are
comfortable with object-oriented thinking, then start playing with Java.

--
Greg Jorgensen
PDXperts
Portland, Oregon, USA
gregj at pobox.com




From bernhard at abnoba.intevation.de  Mon Jan 15 06:38:41 2001
From: bernhard at abnoba.intevation.de (Bernhard Reiter)
Date: 15 Jan 2001 11:38:41 GMT
Subject: do python programmers avoid the mac?
References: <3A607DCC.7EF7809C@mjs400.co.uk>
    <slrn96232d.62n.grante@isis.visi.com>
Message-ID: <93ung1$oe0$3@newsserver.rrzn.uni-hannover.de>

In article <slrn96232d.62n.grante at isis.visi.com>,
	grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards) writes:
> In article <3A607DCC.7EF7809C at mjs400.co.uk>, Pete wrote:
> 
>>Ordinary Bloke seeks stable python2.0 mac ide environment for possible
>>long term development antics. Don't tell me to buy a noisy steenkin
>>intel fat box.
> 
> You don't have to buy a noisy steenkin intel fat box:

I am running LinuxPPC with python on my Powerbook for day to day work.
	Bernhard
-- 
Professional Service around Free Software                (intevation.net)  
The FreeGIS Project                                         (freegis.org)
Association for a Free Informational Infrastructure            (ffii.org)
FSF Europe                                            (www.fsfeurope.org)


From phd at phd.pp.ru  Wed Jan 17 09:50:08 2001
From: phd at phd.pp.ru (Oleg Broytmann)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 17:50:08 +0300 (MSK)
Subject: Securing passwords stored inside of a database field using Python
In-Reply-To: <NKh96.874$eI2.31689@NewsReader>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0101171749020.28607-100000@fep132.fep.ru>

On Wed, 17 Jan 2001, chris lamb wrote:
> A one way encryption algorithm? If so what would be recommended by anyone<

   MD5 or SHA. Python has modules for both. Some databases can create
hashes for passwords (MySQL can do it with both unix "broken DES" hash and
MD5).

Oleg.
----
     Oleg Broytmann            http://phd.pp.ru/            phd at phd.pp.ru
           Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN.




From root at rainerdeyke.com  Wed Jan 10 17:52:05 2001
From: root at rainerdeyke.com (Rainer Deyke)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 22:52:05 GMT
Subject: boolean xor
References: <93ace8$nmo$1@panix3.panix.com> <93i7ne$5dk$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <93i9ff$q4l$1@slb0.atl.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <pI576.21295$ge4.9910815@news2.rdc2.tx.home.com>

"Andrew Dalke" <dalke at acm.org> wrote in message
news:93i9ff$q4l$1 at slb0.atl.mindspring.net...
> The expression "not ( (a and b) or (not (a or b)) )"
> checks the truth value of a and b, which means it calls
> __nonzero__ or __len__ as unary methods of the object.
> The == is a binary operator which may call the __coerce,
> __cmp__ or __rcmp__ methods, so your version does something
> different than the original code.

You could, however, remove a redundant 'not' from the original:

def xor(a, b): return (a or b) and not (a and b)


--
Rainer Deyke (root at rainerdeyke.com)
Shareware computer games           -           http://rainerdeyke.com
"In ihren Reihen zu stehen heisst unter Feinden zu kaempfen" - Abigor




From rey at typhoon.sdsu.edu  Sat Jan 13 10:44:04 2001
From: rey at typhoon.sdsu.edu (Serge Rey)
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 15:44:04 -0000
Subject: making a string copy of a list
In-Reply-To: <slrn95vuqg.1pa.warlock@gargoyle.myth>
Message-ID: <93pt44+b2bs@eGroups.com>

--- In python-list at egroups.com, warlock at e... (Jim Richardson) wrote:
> OK, I swear I've looked for this, but how do I make a copy of a
list, into a
> string, complete with commas seperating the entries in the list? 

mylist=['one','two','three']
import string
mystring=string.join(mylist,",")



serge





From Gareth.McCaughan at pobox.com  Sun Jan 21 17:03:21 2001
From: Gareth.McCaughan at pobox.com (Gareth McCaughan)
Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 22:03:21 +0000
Subject: new enum idiom
References: <G6qzLy.6Fo@world.std.com> <938jmh$919$1@animus.fel.iae.nl> <3A58B9C0.9F2A5CC0@collins.rockwell.com> <93an8v02d2n@news1.newsguy.com> <93dde1$8d2$1@animus.fel.iae.nl> <93f3nb023mv@news1.newsguy.com> <90259DC4Arcamesz@127.0.0.1> <93i57b01qms@news2.newsguy.com> <90268BCE3rcamesz@127.0.0.1> <93kb0m0r3s@news1.newsguy.com> <90273B4rcamesz@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <slrn96mn59.730.Gareth.McCaughan@g.local>

Robert Amesz wrote:

> Ah, Lisp, so beautiful, so pristine, so ... verbose. Well, it's great 
> for lists, but anything numeric is a chore. Let's see:
>    (EQ (PLUS 1 1) 2)
>    t
> Phew, so least that's still true... ;-)

Er, you mean
  (= (+ 1 1) 2)
not
  (eq (plus (1 1) 2))
actually.

If you do a lot of numeric stuff and find Lisp syntax
a chore, you can define some read-macros to let you say
something like

  [1+1==2]

instead. There's something called "mathtran" that does
this sort of thing, though I think its syntax is a little
different.

Interested parties may wish to see
  http://web.ukonline.co.uk/g.mccaughan/g/remarks/with-open-file.html
for some further remarks on the illusion of Lisp's verbosity. Or not,
as the case may be. :-)

-- 
Gareth McCaughan  Gareth.McCaughan at pobox.com
sig under construc


From kwoeltje at mail.mcg.edu  Mon Jan 15 07:29:06 2001
From: kwoeltje at mail.mcg.edu (Keith F. Woeltje)
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 12:29:06 GMT
Subject: Help with Python install
References: <rkp46t8atkoabsmu7v159sm32c0mslp40p@4ax.com> <ro256tkkmuf2j6lq6279ofr871269j7fnj@4ax.com> <u1956t89hvqr87e4kgta2qoaqeu7e894us@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3A62ED68.150BAE7@mail.mcg.edu>

Sheila--thanks for posting the follow-up. I may be facing a similar
situation soon, and this could save me a lot of headaches. Too often we
never hear what the final resolution of a problem was.
>K

Sheila King wrote:
>  
> Well, I have this problem solved, at least. Python 2.0 is installed, and my
> script is functioning. I did have to put the full path in the .qmail file, as
> suggested by Emile van Sebille. That, plus installing it in a directory where
> the permissions allowed the mail program to access it, solved the problem.
>


From btheld2 at my-deja.com  Thu Jan 25 15:21:30 2001
From: btheld2 at my-deja.com (btheld2 at my-deja.com)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 20:21:30 GMT
Subject: Need Python Enabled Rich Edit Control Similiar to PythonWin.Exe
Message-ID: <94q1rt$2ip$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

Hello,

I need a python-enabled rich edit control to use in my application that
looks similar to the view in PythonWin.exe.  However, I need a control
instead of a view.  Any ideas?

Ben


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From tbryan at python.net  Sat Jan 20 23:38:45 2001
From: tbryan at python.net (Thomas A. Bryan)
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 23:38:45 -0500
Subject: Automatic Documentation Tools?
References: <mailman.979786073.2627.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3A6A67D5.E082CA43@python.net>

Terry Hancock wrote:
> 
> I've seen a number of automatically generated documentation
> on the web for C/C++ source code.  Is there anything like
> this for Python?  I've taken over documenting a piece of
> code, and it would be nice to at list have a list of classes,
> attributes, and methods from which to work.  Seems like it
> ought to be automateable, but I don't know the fastest way
> to do it.
> 
> Any suggestions?
> 
> --
> Terry Hancock
> hancock at earthlink.net

Do you mean something like Javadoc for Python?

Try Synopsis.
http://sourceforge.net/projects/synopsis/

---Tom


From jepler at inetnebr.com  Mon Jan 29 22:14:35 2001
From: jepler at inetnebr.com (Jeff Epler)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 03:14:35 GMT
Subject: how to store great array?
References: <953sps$nta$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <slrn97cccp.30e.jepler@potty.housenet>

This kind of problem should be within the grasp of any recent PC with
say 64 megs of memory.  The test program I wrote is crawling along on
my 36 meg laptop, but showed about 96 megs used for a 2 million item
dictionary when I ran it on my 256M desktop machine.

There isn't a portable routine to get the amount of free memory, but
Python will raise an exception (MemoryError?) in case you allocate all
available memory.

If your document numbers are contiguous and you have decided on in-memory
storage, [1934, 1942, ...], a list of integers rather than strings,
is one choice.  Another is the "array" module, which will offer the
lowest overhead.  For instance, you can select a type of "byte" (If
all your documents are expected to fall within a 256-year timespan)
or go all the way to "int" (4 billion year range).  This storage method is
as efficient as a C array, except for a few bytes of overhead.  2 million
entries at one byte each takes two million bytes to store, well within
the range of any machine where Python is likely to run these days.

With a dictionary, both keys and values of integers are probably the
best choice.

However, I might recommend using the "shelve" option.  It's a method of
transparently using a file on disk as though it were a dictionary, assuming
the keys are all strings.  In this way, you can avoid memory exhaustion
problems, and increase the startup speed of your program since there's no
need to read all the items at startup.

So, have a look at the documentation to the "shelve" and "array" modules,
and use whatever program your operating system provides to measure how
much memory your Python script is using. (In Linux, "ps", "free" and
"top" are good tools for this purpose)  I imagine that there is a solution
which will work in the available memory but still be accessible in a
reasonable fashion (for instance, if you choose the "array" method with bytes
so that the zero-year is 1700, you might wrap it in a class instance which
performs this step for you ...
	class Documents:
		def __init__(self, file, bias=1700, typecode = 'b'):
			self.bias = bias
			self.data = array.array(typecode)
			self.data.fromfile(file)

		def __getitem__(self, item):
			return self.data[item] + self.bias

		def __setitem__(self, item, value):
			self.data[item] = value - self.bias

		def tofile(self, file):
			self.data.tofile(file)

	documents = Documents(...)
)

Good luck!  I think this post has become a bit disorganized, but it should
give you a number of ideas to pursue in solving your problem.

Jeff


From greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz  Wed Jan 31 23:26:46 2001
From: greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (Greg Ewing)
Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 17:26:46 +1300
Subject: "in" for dicts (was: Python 2.1 function attributes)
References: <mailman.980770173.14038.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3A78E586.4638E05B@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz>

Tim Peters wrote:
> 
> Nobody searches phone books or Webster's
> "backwards" in real life.

Indeed! If I were to ask my colleague "Is the word 'bamboozle'
used anywhere in a definition in Webster's dictionary?" the
answer would probably be "Buggered if I know."

Which leads us to what the semantics of
"x in dict" should obviously be:

>>> if x in dict:
...   print "boo:
<stdin>, line 1: BuggeredIfIKnowError

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept, University of Canterbury,	  
Christchurch, New Zealand
To get my email address, please visit my web page:	  
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg


From noahspurrier at my-deja.com  Tue Jan 23 00:58:58 2001
From: noahspurrier at my-deja.com (noahspurrier at my-deja.com)
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 05:58:58 GMT
Subject: unpack sequence to tuple?
Message-ID: <94j6j1$3na$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

I want to easily read arguments in a sequence into separate variables.
Basically, I want to use a Per1 idiom and do this:

    (cmd, host, user, key) = tuple(sys.argv)

The problem is that I cannot be sure how long sys.argv is.
If it's too short then tuple() fails with:

    ValueError: unpack tuple of wrong size

It would be cool if the extra tuple items just got set to None.
If the sequence is too long I would like the extra to be ignored
or stored into an "extra" tuple:

    (cmd, host, user, key, extra) = tuple(sys.argv)

This is not a big deal. It's certainly not unclear to simply read
each element, but I was hoping that there might be something short
and neat that would already do this:
    host = sys.argv[1]
    user = sys.argv[2]
    key = sys.argv[3]

Yours,
Noah




Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From martin at mira.cs.tu-berlin.de  Sun Jan 21 03:56:58 2001
From: martin at mira.cs.tu-berlin.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 09:56:58 +0100
Subject: [XML-SIG] Re: Using Installer with PyXML
In-Reply-To: <037201c08338$42ce08a0$11260340@yin> (dan.rolander@marriott.com)
References: <02c401c08311$a66e8f00$11260340@yin> <200101202225.f0KMPl200861@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <037201c08338$42ce08a0$11260340@yin>
Message-ID: <200101210856.f0L8uwj01030@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

> I have not found the xml-sig documentation, or the python library
> reference, to be too helpful for someone new to xml processing, so I
> bought Sean McGrath's book "XML Processing with Python" and have
> found that to be *very* helpful.

I'm glad to hear this. The PyXML documentation is certainly not
targetted at people new to XML at all; it is mostly for people that
know XML, and want to learn about XML processing in Python.

BTW, did you have a look at the PyXML tutorial as well?

> But his examples, which I was testing, use references to pyexpat.

Not surprising; the wrapper module was created just before the Python
2.0 release.

> I tested your suggestion of using "from xml.parsers import expat"
> vs.  "import pyexpat" and that works fine, but I'm not sure what the
> benefit of using that form is.

To get independent from the location of the pyexpat module. If you say
"import pyexpat", and you use PyXML, you still won't get the PyXML
version of that module - this lives in xml.parsers.pyexpat.

Regards,
Martin



From andreas at andreas-jung.com  Mon Jan  8 02:40:30 2001
From: andreas at andreas-jung.com (Andreas Jung)
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 08:40:30 +0100
Subject: Web devel with python. Whats the best route?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.21.0101071733170.29753-100000@open-systems.net>; from chris@voodooland.net on Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 05:36:22PM -0600
References: <Pine.BSF.4.21.0101071733170.29753-100000@open-systems.net>
Message-ID: <20010108084030.A5012@yetix.sz-sb.de>

On Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 05:36:22PM -0600, Chris Watson wrote:
> 
> 	I'm about to start converting the small fool proof (ha ha) admin
> system I have been working from console based to web based. What is the
> easiest way to go about integrating python into apache so I can start
> web'izing this app? mod_python, mod_snake, PyApache? 

When you need something like Python embeded into HTML try Poor Mans Zope:

http://pmz.sourceforge.net

Andreas 	



From Dieter_Deyke at CoCreate.com  Sun Jan  7 14:01:18 2001
From: Dieter_Deyke at CoCreate.com (Dieter Deyke)
Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2001 19:01:18 GMT
Subject: boolean xor
References: <93ace8$nmo$1@panix3.panix.com>
Message-ID: <uelyfmbk2.fsf@CoCreate.com>

Try

	((not a) != (not b))

aahz at panix.com (Aahz Maruch) writes:

> I need a boolean (not bit-wise) xor function.  I've got the following
> function, but my logic skills are rusty enough that I'm wondering if
> this is the "right" way to do it (I've validated that it produces the
> correct outputs, at least):
> 
> def xor(a,b):
>     return not ( (a and b) or (not (a or b)) )
> -- 
>                       --- Aahz (Copyright 2001 by aahz at pobox.com)
> 
> Androgynous poly kinky vanilla queer het    <*>     http://www.rahul.net/aahz/
> Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6
> 
> "This is Usenet.  We're all masturbating in public places."  -DH

-- 
Dieter Deyke
mailto:Dieter_Deyke at CoCreate.com mailto:deyke at crosswinds.net
Vs lbh pna ernq guvf, lbh unir jnl gbb zhpu gvzr.


From tim.one at home.com  Sun Jan 14 23:31:40 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 23:31:40 -0500
Subject: Protected execution through tricks with namespace scoping
In-Reply-To: <93sia0$hdn$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCKEKDIIAA.tim.one@home.com>

[posted & mailed]

[rturpin at my-deja.com]
> Two caveats. First, don't ask me why. Second, I'm thinking
> out loud, or more accurately, thinking while I'm typing.
> So there may be gaping errors in the idea below. Almost
> certainly, there are programming errors. At his point, I'm
> working on the concepts, not the syntax.
>
> The goal is to execute plug-in modules in a fashion that
> protects the surrounding program from accidental harm.
> Let's assume the plug-in module is an importable file
> that defines a set of functions. The surrounding program
> wants to supply some named services that are available.
> It seems something like the following would work:
>
> [code building custom dicts and passing them on to an
>  exec to use for locals and globals]
>
> Obviously, either foo or its functions could run forever,
> without returning. Using Python modules that give them
> access to the external environment, they might kill
> processes, screw up files, etc. But is there any way,
> strictly in Python, that either can screw up the
> operation of the surrounding program?

Python has lots of introspective features, so there are holes you're not
likely to think of at first.  For example, if the code you invoke is able to
"import sys", then it can get at sys.modules, and via that replace "the std"
version of any module in the system.  Or it could just
sys.setrecursionlimit(1) and watch things die all over the place.  Etc.

So rather than stumble into these one at a time, read the chapter on
"Restricted Execution" in the Library Reference Manual.  It gives an
overview and then points you to the rexec and Bastion modules, which are
"the std" ways of building a restricted environment in which to run
untrusted code.  Python gives you a lot of help and flexibility here,
enforced at the C level of the interpreter (so it's very hard to subvert).
You're definitely on-target in thinking that namespace-control is a key part
of the game, but there's more to it than *just* that.

and-luckily-it's-already-been-done-for-you-ly y'rs  - tim




From moshez at zadka.site.co.il  Sat Jan 20 14:47:58 2001
From: moshez at zadka.site.co.il (Moshe Zadka)
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 21:47:58 +0200 (IST)
Subject: Neophyte looking for good books on Python
In-Reply-To: <94ak66$dra$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
References: <94ak66$dra$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <20010120194758.3E8BBA83E@darjeeling.zadka.site.co.il>

On Fri, 19 Jan 2001 23:55:54 GMT, galyak <galyak at my-deja.com> wrote:
> I'm looking for good books on Python. I'm a neophyte programmer and I
> have a small understanding of C. I'm looking for good introductory books
> on Python.

I would recommend first reading the documentation on the web site --
the tutorial, and then (when you need it) parts of the library reference.
When you'll decide you need a book, you'll at least know what you're
looking for better (overview, examples, reference?)
-- 
Moshe Zadka <sig at zadka.site.co.il>
This is a signature anti-virus. 
Please stop the spread of signature viruses!
Fingerprint: 4BD1 7705 EEC0 260A 7F21  4817 C7FC A636 46D0 1BD6



From cobrien at Radix.Net  Thu Jan 18 12:52:40 2001
From: cobrien at Radix.Net (Cary O'Brien)
Date: 18 Jan 2001 12:52:40 -0500
Subject: Using Python SSL
References: <93nt06$4eu$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <947ah8$sbv$1@saltmine.radix.net>

In article <93nt06$4eu$1 at nnrp1.deja.com>,  <skreech at my-deja.com> wrote:
>I'm fairly experienced with using sockets in
>Python... I've written two or three small programs
>using sockets, nothing major. Python's
>documentation on sockets is very good, and socket
>programming in general is well documented too
>(Beej's socket programming guide for example).
>I've wanted to try implimenting SSL in the socket
>programs by trying to use mxCrypto and Python's
>SSL in the socket module. Not only have I been
>unsuccessful trying to find out how to use
>socket.SSL from the sourcecode and httplib.py, but
>I've been even less successful in looking for
>documentation on the internet on how to use SSL in
>Python.
>

One alternative is to punt the SSL handling to
something like stunnel (www.stunnel.org).  But
this doesn't teach you as much as doing you own
stuff.

You could also use it for testing.  It runs in
both client and server mode.

[snip]

-- cary


From sifu at isohypse.org  Thu Jan  4 03:42:33 2001
From: sifu at isohypse.org (Siegmund Fuhringer)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 09:42:33 +0100
Subject: mp3-lib
Message-ID: <20010104094233.C13708@isohypse.org>

hi...

is there a mp3-lib (under unix) available? 
or a ready to use wraper around mpg123?

thanx in advance - sifu



From carlhiga at yahoo.com  Wed Jan 10 13:43:48 2001
From: carlhiga at yahoo.com (carlhiga at yahoo.com)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 18:43:48 -0000
Subject: compiling .cgi files
Message-ID: <93iah4+emk6@eGroups.com>

Hello,

I'm running some python cgi scripts that need to have the '.cgi' 
extension in their filename.

Is there anyway to get them to be byte code compiled? I understand 
that if they were '.py' files I could simply import them using the 
interpreter and it would produce the '.pyc' files. But I don't know 
how to do this with '.cgi' files.

Thanks in advance,
Carl





From gregj at pobox.com  Thu Jan 25 14:39:22 2001
From: gregj at pobox.com (Greg Jorgensen)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 19:39:22 GMT
Subject: Python vs Ruby
References: <94mdkd$222e$1@news.adamastor.ac.za> <p6qwvbjtr97.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <94pvd8$3g$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

According to the article below, Ruby uses a mark-and-sweep garbage
collector. I don't know if that is more "real" than reference counting
or not. In my experience mark-and-sweep garbage collectors sometimes
cause unpredictable and sometimes lengthy stalls during execution, but
I haven't used Ruby so I don't know how good the implementation is.

More Ruby info is here:

http://www.ddj.com/articles/2001/0101/0101b/0101b.htm


In article <p6qwvbjtr97.fsf at informatik.hu-berlin.de>,
  Martin von Loewis <loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de> wrote:
> "James Lockley" <jpl at global.co.za> writes:
>
> > Just been reading a "Ruby centric" comparison of Ruby vs Python on:
> > http://helium.ruby-lang.org/en/compar.html
> Incorrect is the claim
>   Ruby has "real" garbage collector, not ref-counting.
>
> While this is correct also, it implies that Python has ref-counting
> and no "real" garbage collector, which is not true for Python 2.0.
>
> The implication of the conclusion
> #  Not subject to memory leaks like ref-counting is.
>
> is likewise incorrect - in Python 2.0, the memory leaks of reference
> counting disappear also. The implication from the other conclusion
> #  No INCREF, DECREF are required for extensions.
> is still correct - INCREF, DECREF are required for extensions.
> I don't know how exactly GC works in Ruby - it is likely that
> it suffers from things that people would consider as drawbacks,
though.

--
Greg Jorgensen
Portland, Oregon, USA
gregj at pobox.com


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From boud at rempt.xs4all.nl  Thu Jan 25 01:17:03 2001
From: boud at rempt.xs4all.nl (Boudewijn Rempt)
Date: 25 Jan 2001 06:17:03 GMT
Subject: what GUI, please advise
References: <3A6F18F2.536F27FE@crepido.com> <3A6F0B27.A88D11C9@crepido.com> <756399CF731B46D9.57530C0D0C9C2171.472E737DF76189F7@lp.airnews.net> <mailman.980360668.7701.python-list@python.org> <7DA74694B63ED42A.83CB11913E3910C5.C8BE5B392AC1AC5C@lp.airnews.net> <mailman.980378246.26304.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <94ogcv$ggb$1@news1.xs4all.nl>

D-Man <dsh8290 at rit.edu> wrote:

> (steering the discussion in my direction ...)

> What is the general feeling of GTK+ vs. wxWindows?

> (I'm not really interested in Tk, Qt, Motif, MFC, etc)

Why not?

> I used GTK-- (the C++ bindings) and Glade on a project a while back.
> I didn't have time then to learn how to properly use libglade.  It
> seems that wxWindows is better at cross-platform functionality (for
> now). 

> How about the design of the object hierarchy?  I'm familiar with gtk,
> how does wxWindows compare?

wxWindows is better than GTK, but does not compare to Qt, which is
better still.

-- 

Boudewijn Rempt  | http://www.valdyas.org


From tim.one at home.com  Sat Jan 20 16:49:14 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 16:49:14 -0500
Subject: Random and whrandom
In-Reply-To: <94bj03$59v$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCMEBHIKAA.tim.one@home.com>

[cpsoct at my-deja.com]
> does random call whrandom or are they two completly different random
> number algorhythms? I could never figure that out. And Rand? That is
> depreciated, no? Why is there random *and* whrandom and when do you use
> which?

Historical accident.  At first whrandom is all that existed.  Then the
easier-to-use random got invented, calling whrandom under the covers.  But,
for backward compatibility, whrandom was retained with the same name.  Now
it's incomprehensible.  Just keep repeating "only random exists!" until you
truly, truly believe it <wink>.

More info at:

http://sourceforge.net/bugs/?func=detailbug&bug_id=125919&group_id=5470




From erno-news at erno.iki.fi  Fri Jan 26 14:38:26 2001
From: erno-news at erno.iki.fi (Erno Kuusela)
Date: 26 Jan 2001 21:38:26 +0200
Subject: Database-like module in Python?
References: <mailman.980510762.2783.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <kubssu5cjx.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>

In article <mailman.980510762.2783.python-list at python.org>, Def P
<def-p at usa.net> writes:

| Hi, I started working on a program for storing and retrieving
| miscellaneous bits of information. I don't really want to use a
| "real" database like Oracle though; I would prefer something
| Pythonic. In fact, a dictionary would do, if not for memory
| problems; having all the information in memory at the same time is
| not an option, because the collection of data might grow quite
| large.  (Speed is not so important.)

i suggest looking at the shelve module; it combines dbm + pickle.

  -- erno



From hamish_lawson at yahoo.co.uk  Wed Jan 31 12:58:08 2001
From: hamish_lawson at yahoo.co.uk (Hamish Lawson)
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 17:58:08 GMT
Subject: from-import on non-module objects?
Message-ID: <959jna$nfl$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

Have there been thoughts on having from-import used on non-module
objects in order to introduce attributes from a given object into the
current scope? Here's an example of its possible use (not that I
actually want to get round using 'self' in methods - I actually like
its explicitness):

    class AClass:

        def __init__(self, x, y):
            self.x = x
            self.y = y

        def output(self):
            from self import *
            print x, y


Hamish Lawson


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From echapin at sympatico.ca  Tue Jan 16 17:25:52 2001
From: echapin at sympatico.ca (Elliott Chapin)
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 22:25:52 GMT
Subject: names
References: <pls86.100769$f36.4497959@news20.bellglobal.com> <slrn964p3g.2f5.andrew.spambgone.chatham@fizgig.dorm.duke.edu> <93umod02iem@news1.newsguy.com> <trL86.74752$n%.3041493@news20.bellglobal.com> <941k7806l8@news1.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <QT396.109640$f36.4755688@news20.bellglobal.com>

Thanks, Alex. A bit more reflection be fore I saw your reply suggests that I
may indeed be better off with nexted dictionaries ending with <whatever>.

--

---------------------------------------------------------------

Elliott Chapin          www3.sympatico.ca/echapin
"Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:941k7806l8 at news1.newsguy.com...
> "Elliott Chapin" <echapin at sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:trL86.74752$n%.3041493 at news20.bellglobal.com...
> > Thanks, all! I may approach the actual task I have in mind by designing
a
> > class which adds a name to the attributes of its instances.
>
> Excellent idea, and probably also best for the parallel thread
> "determining names of instances" started by Daniel Klein.  You
> will have to pass (e.g.) name='NiceFoo' to the constructor, of
> course, unless you want to have it assign 'random' names...:
>
> def Named:
>     unnamed=0
>     def __init__(self, name=None):
>         if name is None:
>             self.name = "Unnamed_%d" % Named.unnamed
>             Named.unnamed += 1
>         else:
>             self.name = name
>
> You can use this as a mix-in class (inherit your classes from
> it), as long as you remember to call its __init__ appropriately
> from your own __init__ (passing along the name-argument...).
>
>
> Alex
>
>
>
>




From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Wed Jan 10 05:37:23 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 11:37:23 +0100
Subject: Running cgi-scripts on my home Apache server
References: <j92o5t4gde98rlaca47mdglnsdc7uruo3c@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <93he3h012p4@news2.newsguy.com>

"Sheila King" <sheila at thinkspot.net> wrote in message
news:j92o5t4gde98rlaca47mdglnsdc7uruo3c at 4ax.com...
    [snip]
> I put a script pytestscript.py in my cgi-bin and typed:
>
> http://127.0.0.1/cgi-bin/pytestscript.py
>
> I get a 500 Internal Server error, and the error logs state:
> "(2)No such file or directory: couldn't spawn child process:
> e:/apache/cgi-bin/pytestscript.py"

The "e:/" start suggests that some Windows system is in play
(and similarly your later mention of Dos's PATH).


Coming to the first line of your script, we see:

> #! /usr/bin/python

But, *IS* the executable to be used to interpret this file
actually named 'python' (not sure if this would work for
'python.exe') AND located in the /usr/bin directory of the
current drive?  This seems somewhat unlikely for a typical
Windows-ish installation.


> I've run the script successfully on my website. It's here:
> http://www.thinkspot.net/cgi-bin/pytestscript.py
>
> so I know the script works. My host is running Linux/Apache.

As it's running Linux, it may well have the executable
named 'python' and residing in '/usr/bin' (no "current
drive" issues under Unix-ish systems).

If, on your machine, the executable interpreter is actually
in, e.g., C:\Python20\Python.Exe, try changing the first line:

#! c:/Python20/Python.Exe -u

(the -u part is not mandatory, but, by unbuffering I/O, it
can help with a CGI script).


This is what Xitami wants, for example (I don't have an
Apache installation under Windows to try, currently).


I suspect, given Apache's power, that you can configure
it to ignore your script's mendacious first line and
actually go look for Python.Exe where it should, but I
wouldn't know where to start.  A truthful first-line may
be a simpler approach if it's not too much of a problem
to have scripts be different depending on the interpreter's
actual location and name.


Alex





From paul at gudge.demon.co.uk  Mon Jan  8 11:11:24 2001
From: paul at gudge.demon.co.uk (Paul Goodyear)
Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2001 16:11:24 GMT
Subject: Grab text from html with user and pass???
References: <Z5g66.16889$0x5.1386532@news3.cableinet.net> <3a59d104.8675840@nntp.sprynet.com>
Message-ID: <MEl66.18187$0x5.1457079@news3.cableinet.net>

Cheers,

Nah it still won't let me.

I even got the username setup so I can pass a username and password.

But it still didn't work.

If I give it the username and password it just keeps looping, if I press
enter twice to give no username and no password the code exit's and it
prints the Authorisation Error produced by the failed logon. :(((

Anybody????????

pgudge

"David C. Ullrich" <ullrich at math.okstate.edu> wrote in message
news:3a59d104.8675840 at nntp.sprynet.com...
> On Mon, 08 Jan 2001 09:52:57 GMT, "Paul Goodyear"
> <paul at gudge.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
> >I am trying to pull out a Ip address from a .html file,
> >
> >I have done this successfully already BUT,
> >
> >The site has a password, the username is blank and the pass word is ****
> >blah blah
> >
> >When I run the
> >
> >[code]      url.urlopen('http://www.blah.com/ip.html')
> >
> >all I get is "Enter username for ** at ** :"   if i press just return I
am
> >then asked for the password, after entering the password the process just
> >keeps repeating.
> >
> >I know for well that the password is correct, I just need it to accept a
> >blank username
>
> Probably the problem is something else so this won't help, but
> it couldn't hurt to try: You can specify the url as
>
> url.urlopen('http://username:password at www.blah.com/ip.html')
>
> or maybe it's
>
> url.urlopen('http://password:username at www.blah.com/ip.html')
>
> >Regards,
> >
> >Paul Goodyear
> >
> >
>




From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Thu Jan  4 09:12:43 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 15:12:43 +0100
Subject: Unexpected result for list operator "+="
References: <3A542778.E1BC06E3@bogusaddress.com> <aDW46.2901$AH6.510940@newsc.telia.net>
Message-ID: <9320ei02tic@news2.newsguy.com>

"Fredrik Lundh" <fredrik at effbot.org> wrote in message
news:aDW46.2901$AH6.510940 at newsc.telia.net...
    [snip]
> 1) if anyone can figure out where list += is documented,
> let us know...

I only see a very brief & indirect mention in passing at 3.3.4
in the Python Reference Manual -- online version's URL
http://www.python.org/doc/current/ref/sequence-types.html

"""
Finally, sequence types should implement addition (meaning concatenation)
[snip]
by defining the methods __add__(), __radd__(), __iadd__(),
"""
(it continues by saying the methods are 'described below',
but, they aren't).

Still better than the docs for numeric types -- this is the
ONLY mention I can find of __iadd__ *anywhere* in the docs.


Alex





From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Tue Jan 23 15:44:22 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 21:44:22 +0100
Subject: markov applied to music? (was Re: markov.py)
References: <20010123132313.E6E2EEE85@mail.python.org> <mailman.980270667.10267.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <94kqqo0abh@news2.newsguy.com>

"Terry Hancock" <hancock at earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:mailman.980270667.10267.python-list at python.org...
    [snip]
> I know almost nothing about Markov chains (though I've seen the
> output before), but they were recommended to me as a possible
> way to generate more complex game music based on a static score:
    [snip]
> It does however, have different moods, and it seems that it might
> make sense to take a score with a gradually changing mood and use
> a sliding window to determine what portion of the score is used,
> thus allowing a "mood" parameter to control the output.  Whenever

This might work; it's worth trying to code it up and check if
it sounds decent.

> the mood changes, the markov chain generator would have to
> re-analyze the new window and start generating output.

Better to run the analysis 'off-line', earlier.  A transition will
be modeled as a gradual interpolation in time between one
and another transition-probability-matrix, with a time-varying
parameter T between 0 and 1; pseudocode might be:

def pickFrom(choice_probs):
    r = random.random()
    for i in range(len(choice_probs)-1):
        r -= choice_probs[i]
        if r<=0: break
    return outputAt(i)

def outputSteadyState(state, matrix):
    if matrix.has_key(state):
        choice_probs = matrix[state]
    else:
        choice_probs = defaultProbs(state)
    return pickFrom(choice_probs)

def outputTransition(state, matrix1, matrix2, lambda):
    if matrix1.has_key(state):
        if matrix2.has_key(state):
            c1 = matrix1[state]
            c2 = matrix2[state]
            choice_probs = [a*lambda+b*(1-lambda)
                for a, b in zip(c1,c2)]
            return pickFrom(choice_probs)
        else: return outputSteadyState(state, matrix1)
    else: return outputSteadyState(state, matrix2)

This assumes sparse matrices for the state->probabilities
correspondences and dense ones for the probability
(density) vectors themselves (rather than cumulative);
much optimization may of course be possible.

> I presume the Markov algorithm would take care of the transition
> problem, so that it doesn't just sound like random clips all
> hashed together.

That's a reasonable hope, which needs to be tested.

> Would it be feasible to use the markov.py module to do this sort
> of thing?

I don't think it explicitly stores/fetches transition probability
tables, which would be advisable here (hard to interpolate
during transitions otherwise); so, while it will surely repay
some study, you'll probably be better off redoing it from
scratch according to your specific needs.  It's not rocket
science anyway, since you only need to simulate output
rather than any of the hard Markov stuff (recognizing &c
input sources by working backwards from observed output).


Alex





From sauer at informatik.hu-berlin.de  Wed Jan 17 03:01:22 2001
From: sauer at informatik.hu-berlin.de (Robert Sauer)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 09:01:22 +0100
Subject: Relational Databases and Python
References: <mailman.979589896.32678.python-list@python.org> <3A63D5DB.50B7DD0E@python.net>
Message-ID: <d$pEguFgAHA.266@fnews1.vi-internet.de>

Another opetion would be to go with SAP DB. It's freshly published as Open
SOurce.

Have a look at http://www.sap.com/solutions/technology/sapdb/

Ciao, Robert


"Thomas A. Bryan" <tbryan at python.net> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:3A63D5DB.50B7DD0E at python.net...
> glinds - Greg Lindstrom wrote:
>
> > I am wanting to access a relational database via Python.  Knowing that a
> > "simple" query such as "Why no "do until" statement" can generate
replies
> > for months, I offer the following:
> >
> > *       What relational database to use?  I am constructing a routine to
> > track incident reports for the volunteer fire department I run with.  I
also
> > want to track personnel information, training records, equipment, etc.
It
> > will be a small to medium database (the databases I work with
professionally
> > run in the terabytes, but we spend millions on software).  I am looking
at
> > MySQL.  Whatever base I use must be free.
>
> I join the other poster in voting for PostgreSQL.
>
> > *       How to access the database?  I would like to use SQL via ODBC.
I
> > have attempted to install the mxODBC module, but have run into trouble
with
> > the first step (get and install mxDateTime).  That's not a good sign.  I
> > would like a simple communication to the  database (else I will write a
"C"
> > routine to do it for me!).  What's out there?
>
> Pretty much any database will require a C extension module.  Depending on
> your platform, you can probably get a precompiled library for most of
them.
>
> > *       With an eye to the future, I would like to write a Web-based
system
> > so that I can offer this system to other volunteer departments in the
> > county.
>
> Do you want to host the software for other departmenets, or do you want
> to develop an application that the other departments can download and
> use locally?  If you're thinking of hosting, then Zope may be a good
> choice so that you can delegate other departments' portions of the site
> to their personnel.
>
> If you simply plan to develop an application, why restrict it to your
county?
> You might consider starting a Sourceforge project and turning this
application
> into a free competitor to the commercial systems out there.
>
> > We simply cannot afford $2500+ for reporting software
>
> Eek!
>
> > How do I get started writing web apps?
>
> As always, start reading.  Then practice and play a little.
> Repeat until tired with problem domain. :)
>
> > I have good friends at work telling me that Perl is the way to go;
> > I program both, but am partial to Python.
>
> Use whichever you prefer unless you know of a compelling reason to use one
> or the other.  For example, if you can't find an ISP that will host
anything
> in Python (unlikely!), then Perl may be your only choice.  For simple web
> applications, either one will do fine.  For more complex applications,
both
> may have different advantages, especially when it comes to pre-written
code
> available under a license that carries no fee for your department.
>
> For example, if you're planning to use Zope, then you should definitely
> start with Python.  If you're wondering what Zope is, read the Zope Book
> (a draft is available at http://www.zope.org/Members/michel/ZB/).  The
online
> draft answered most of my questions about Zope.
>
> ---Tom




From blablu at gmx.net  Wed Jan 17 08:37:22 2001
From: blablu at gmx.net (Mike 'Cat' Perkonigg)
Date: 17 Jan 2001 13:37:22 GMT
Subject: Python + IIS problems
References: <902598A71mikecat@192.168.10.38> <93trlf$kof$1@troll.powertech.no>
Message-ID: <902C94518mikecat@192.168.10.38>

syver at NOSPAMcyberwatcher.com (Syver Enstad) wrote in 
<93trlf$kof$1 at troll.powertech.no>:

>Have you setup the IIS correctly?
>
>The commandline parameter for the interpreter should be:
>
>path to python "%s" %s
>

That's the point. I found this on a website too and it works now, but with:
path_to_python\python.exe %s %s

Thanks,
Mike


From scarblac at pino.selwerd.nl  Mon Jan 29 20:38:37 2001
From: scarblac at pino.selwerd.nl (Remco Gerlich)
Date: 30 Jan 2001 01:38:37 GMT
Subject: curly-brace-aphobic?
References: <3A74EBD6.3C87FD15@seebelow.org> <slrn97a9fu.7sf.clgonsal@keeshah.penguinpowered.com> <3A757FBE.E54C5ECD@seebelow.org> <mailman.980789494.4239.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrn97c6bs.bjo.scarblac@pino.selwerd.nl>

D-Man <dsh8290 at rit.edu> wrote in comp.lang.python:
> On Mon, Jan 29, 2001 at 08:35:42AM -0600, Grant Griffin wrote:
> | C.Laurence Gonsalves wrote:
> | I guess it's because sequences and dictionaries are conceptually very
> | different.  (You can tell, because we have a special word just to
> 
> I'm not sure how different they are conceptually.  A dictionary is a
> collection (sequence) of data that is indexed by arbitrary keys.  A
> list is a collection (sequence) of data that is indexed by integers
> only.

An essential difference is the fact that lists are ordered, but dicts aren't.

So lists have things like append(), and dicts can set items that don't exist
yet. Sorting a list makes sense, sorting a dict doesn't. Et cetera.

But indexing should be the same for lists, dicts, tuples, shelves, arbitrary
instances - it's simply indexing. It does the same thing.

It's almost odd that list/dict indexing is different from indexing a module
or instance...

-- 
Remco Gerlich


From erno-news at erno.iki.fi  Thu Jan 18 12:51:48 2001
From: erno-news at erno.iki.fi (Erno Kuusela)
Date: 18 Jan 2001 19:51:48 +0200
Subject: OS Module (how to check free space)
References: <945aq5$2kd$1@nntp.itservices.ubc.ca>
Message-ID: <ku1yu0eojv.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>

In article <945aq5$2kd$1 at nntp.itservices.ubc.ca>,
kmbotha at interchange.ubc.ca (Kris Marius Botha) writes:

| Does anyone know how to do this?

os.statvfs() - i don't know if this works on all platforms though.

  -- erno


From amk at mira.erols.com  Mon Jan 22 00:07:25 2001
From: amk at mira.erols.com (A.M. Kuchling)
Date: 22 Jan 2001 05:07:25 GMT
Subject: curses, python20/152, RH70/62, postgresql problems
References: <94731d$9j4$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <slrn96fd9n.52f.amk@207-172-36-33.s33.tnt6.ann.va.dialup.rcn.com> <mailman.979923026.29932.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrn96ngqh.i0.amk@mira.erols.com>

On Fri, 19 Jan 2001 11:47:40 -0500, D-Man <dsh8290 at rit.edu> wrote:
>Could you provide some more details on the glibc problem?  I used to

One of the fixes in the glibc update
(http://www.redhat.com/support/errata/RHBA-2000-079.html) reads:

   This release fixes compatibility bugs with glibc 2.0.x, fixes a C
   header file problem so that Python 2.0 compiles out of box, and
   also fixes a bug in locale handling...

The Bugzilla ID for the LONG_BIT problem is 19088; see 
http://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=19088

--amk



From rturpin at my-deja.com  Wed Jan 17 10:44:14 2001
From: rturpin at my-deja.com (rturpin at my-deja.com)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 15:44:14 GMT
Subject: threading: how to kill a (possibly blocked) thread?
References: <3A649FE4.E582D0E0@ll.mit.edu> <u1yu2vmiq.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com>
Message-ID: <944ekb$ri$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

In article <u1yu2vmiq.fsf at ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com>,
  David Bolen <db3l at fitlinxx.com> wrote:
> What you really need to do is ensure that your threads
> can accept an external request to terminate themselves ..

The ideal way to do this is with a timed interrupt that
invokes a function in the thread. The thread would start
by setting this interrupt:

  set_interrupt(8, funcCallBack)

Then, funcCallBack gets invoked every 8 seconds,
interrupting what the thread is doing, and returning
to the interrupted code when the function returns.
Unfortunately, I don't see such a facility in the
library.

> .. The main thread code should then check the event
> object periodically and exit nicely if it is set.

Except for certain kinds of processing, such as FSMs,
this gets REAL ugly REAL fast. It also fails to protect
against the very things for which you want a guard,
i.e., external events that never occur.

Russell



Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From fredrik at effbot.org  Sun Jan  7 10:31:07 2001
From: fredrik at effbot.org (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2001 15:31:07 GMT
Subject: Line Benchmarks - Tkinter vs. wxPython
References: <91uljk$12as$1@news2.ottawa.cyberus.ca> <wMF36.2800$Qb7.322181@newsb.telia.net>
Message-ID: <%Y%56.4330$Qb7.610263@newsb.telia.net>

I wrote:
> As some of you know, I've been involved in a commercial UI library
> called uiToolkit (see www.pythonware.com for more info). Tkinter
> 3000 is a reimplementation of some uiToolkit concepts, on top of
> Tkinter (and/or Tk).
>
> One such concept is something called the "Widget Construction
> Kit", which is a small interface that allows you to implement new
> Tkinter widgets in pure Python.

a "sneak preview" is now available at http://tkinter.effbot.org

enjoy /F




From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Thu Jan  4 04:57:24 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 10:57:24 +0100
Subject: regular expressions: grabbing variables from multiple matches
References: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10101031903560.14979-100000@salmonfalls.lilybay.com> <mailman.978580504.31501.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <931hft02ejm@news2.newsguy.com>

"D-Man" <dsh8290 at rit.edu> wrote in message
news:mailman.978580504.31501.python-list at python.org...
>
> At first I was confused by what you meant with findall returning a
> list of matches, not match objects.
>
> Here's my interpreter session (excuse the poor variable naming, it's
> just for testing):
>
> >>> import re
> >>> r = re.compile( "asdf" )
> >>> m = r.match( "asdf" )
> >>> m
> <SRE_Match object at 0x8130ca8>
> >>> ml = r.findall( "asdfasdf" )
> >>> ml
> ['asdf', 'asdf']
> >>> for str in ml :
> ...     m = r.match( str )
> ...     print m
> ...
> <SRE_Match object at 0x8111108>
> <SRE_Match object at 0x812ee28>
> >>>
>
> Since findall gives you back the strings that match the regex, you can
> go through them and call match() to get a match object.  This should
> be faster than matching arbitrary text since you know (in the loop)
> all the strings will match.
>
> It will probably hurt performance though, but at least it will be
> functional.

Actually, I suspect this is not what the original poster needed.

A little modification to the final loop may show it more clearly:

>>> for str in ml:
...     m = r.match(str)
...     print m.start(),m
...
0 <SRE_Match object at 00812090>
0 <SRE_Match object at 008111D0>
>>>

See...?  What we're getting is just a description of how the re
matches (starting at 0) each substring -- we've LOST the info of
how the matches were located in the original string (start and
end information).

The "searchall" function one might well desire (to give all the
match-objects for all non-overlapping matches of one re in a
string) needs a different approach, something like (in your
interactive-session terms):

>>> matches=[]
>>> pos=0
>>> while 1:
...   mo = r.search('asdfasdf',pos)
...   if mo is None: break
...   matches.append(mo)
...   pos = mo.end()
...
>>> for match in matches:
...   print match.start(), match.end()
...
0 4
4 8
>>>

i.e., as a function, it could be:

def searchall(re, string):
    matches = []
    pos = 0
    while 1:
        mo = re.search(string,pos)
        if mo is None: return matches
        matches.append(mo)
        pos = mo.end()

Nothing too terrible, sure, but it might be nice
to have this as a part of the module (and as a
method of re objects), as it seems to me that its
frequence of occurrence is no lesser than that of
findall's (where only the matching strings are
needed, not the match-positions).


Alex





From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Jan 12 08:54:24 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 14:54:24 +0100
Subject: boolean xor
References: <93ace8$nmo$1@panix3.panix.com> <93i7ne$5dk$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <93i9ff$q4l$1@slb0.atl.mindspring.net> <pI576.21295$ge4.9910815@news2.rdc2.tx.home.com> <93iuj9$jta$1@slb3.atl.mindspring.net> <cLa76.23299$ge4.10502177@news2.rdc2.tx.home.com> <93jls9$v12$1@slb3.atl.mindspring.net> <Tbi76.10504$X3.66627@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com> <93kofr01bg2@news1.newsguy.com> <61t76.2471$6i.33339@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com> <2Ft76.135896$15.28612550@news1.rdc1.az.home.com> <NnD76.8874$Im.80232@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <93n2da010h0@news1.newsguy.com>

"Steve Holden" <sholden at holdenweb.com> wrote in message
news:NnD76.8874$Im.80232 at e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com...
> "Tim Hochberg" <tim.hochberg at ieee.org> wrote in message
> news:2Ft76.135896$15.28612550 at news1.rdc1.az.home.com...
> >
> >
> > I suspect that head thwacking will soon commence
> >
> [dim "thwack, thwack, thwack" is repeatedly heard in the background]
>
> Dammit, the martellibot *is* infallible. I'll just go and lie down now.

I'm no such thing, and I've repeatedly proven it!  Remember I'm
a later, improved model wrt the timbot -- which, as we all know,
means I've got a MUCH glitzier GUI (pity that the 'Verbosity'
switch seems to be stuck on 'Maximum-ON', but, hey, they'll fix
that on SP2 at the latest), with all sort of shimmering 3d-ish
dissolvence effects (if you're running Direct/X 12 or later, of
course, which, unfortunately, _does_ have a little tendency to
crash then and again... but no oftener than about twice an hour,
unless you're so silly to try to run it with less than a GB of
video ram on your adapter).  As an inevitable side effect, I _do_
have a very few internal-architecture bugs^H^H^H^H peculiar
features, but, the market has proved decisively that you human
beings much prefer software that's very very buggy just as long
as the GUI _is_ glitzy, right?  Who'd ever WANT plain boring
right answers just showing up in fixed-pitch text on a boring
old scrolling textwindow, after all -- that just wouldn't compare
to the breathtaking excitement of occasionally-rather-wrong ones
displayed in beautifully-rendered, highly-artistic fonts on
delicately-shaded pastel-hued bucolic pictures' background.

So there.


Alex





From root at rainerdeyke.com  Sun Jan 21 23:37:34 2001
From: root at rainerdeyke.com (Rainer Deyke)
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 04:37:34 GMT
Subject: creating variable names by adding 2 strings?
References: <3A6BAA32.370A2C00@ntlworld.com>
Message-ID: <iOOa6.87931$ge4.33060115@news2.rdc2.tx.home.com>

"Lee" <lee.reilly at ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:3A6BAA32.370A2C00 at ntlworld.com...
> while (p!=0):
>         p+`p`= string.replace(component[control], ",", "")
>         # e.g. I want 'p1 = string.replace.blah...'

Why?  What's wrong with 'q[p] = ...'?  To answer your question, it's
impossible for local variables.  For global variables, assign to
'globals()['p' + p]'.  For attributes, use 'setattr'.


--
Rainer Deyke (root at rainerdeyke.com)
Shareware computer games           -           http://rainerdeyke.com
"In ihren Reihen zu stehen heisst unter Feinden zu kaempfen" - Abigor




From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Thu Jan 18 05:14:28 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 11:14:28 +0100
Subject: ODBC vs ADO (was Re: Where to find the 'dbi' and 'odbc' modules?)
References: <mailman.979634964.31590.python-list@python.org> <941cbh02uo8@news1.newsguy.com> <945a14$904$1@bob.news.rcn.net>
Message-ID: <946foq03kk@news2.newsguy.com>

"Satheesh Babu" <vsbabu at erols.com> wrote in message
news:945a14$904$1 at bob.news.rcn.net...
> > My favourite way of accessing DB's on NT (fastest, convenient) is
> > via Microsoft's ADO/AODX object model; you can use it (just like you
> > can use any other COM/Automation object model) via module win32com,
>
> Alex,
>
> If you have any very small example on using ADO + Python to connect
> to an ODBC source and execute a query, can you send that to me.

I've posted the very small example (and variations on it) yesterday
on the thread titled "SQL-Statement with Python", but it does *NOT*
'connect to an ODBC source', and I have no experience using ADO to
connect to ODBC sources -- I use it to connect to Jet, SQL Server,
MSDE, Oracle, and other providers yet, but I've never connected it
to the ODBC provider.

The only needed variation SHOULD be how you set Connection string,
typically to something like:
    "Provider=MSDASQL;DSN=dsnName;UID=userName;PWD=userPassword;"
but I only know this from the MS docs -- I've never used it.  I
also know from the docs that the 'Provider=MSDASQL' part can be
omitted (it's the default OleDb provider!), so you _could_ use a
connection string identical to the ODBC connection string you
would use with native ODBC (DSN= or FileDSN= for 'normal' DSN
stuff defined via "ODBC Data Source Administrator"; or, without
a DSN, by explicitly specifying DRIVER, SERVER, DATABASE; but
that's just old ODBC business-as-usual, and I assume somebody
who wants to use ODBC knows this stuff already).


If you DO have to use ODBC, rather than the native OleDb/ADO providers,
then I guess you might as well program to the ODBC level, say with
mxODBC; it's nice to have a way to talk ADO to an ODBC source, as a
'backstop' removing any doubts about the feasibility of using ADO-only
for an application ("yes, you *can* still connect to that old DB over
there in an emergency"), but if ODBC *had* to be my sole connection,
that's what I would use (at least in Python, which gives decent ODBC
functionality; might be different if Visual Basic, data-enabled OCX
controls, etc, had to be used -- but I haven't done that much).


Alex





From one61803 at my-deja.com  Sat Jan  6 19:42:30 2001
From: one61803 at my-deja.com (one61803 at my-deja.com)
Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2001 00:42:30 GMT
Subject: Question about IDLE
References: <9364b7$qse$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <H%w56.180$Zf.836@newsfeed.slurp.net> <936db1$1f0$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <936ppk$og9$1@news1.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <938e1k$g8g$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

Okay, when I get around to installing Python 2.0, I'll try that.

In article <936ppk$og9$1 at news1.xs4all.nl>,
  boud at rempt.xs4all.nl wrote:
> one61803 at my-deja.com wrote:
> > Yes, I've tried setting idle.font, idle.fontFamily, idle.fontList, etc. Also,
> > I've looked through the source code for all occurences of the word "font" and
> > have not identified any sections that actually specify a font for idle (other
> > than the one for windows).
>
> For the Idle that comes with Python 2.0, there's a text file in the
> source directory, config-unix.txt that you can change. You can also
> edit a .idle file in your home directory (though why that shouldn't
> be called .idlerc like the rest of them I don't know). Look in
> IdleConf.py to see how it's done.
>
> --
>
> Boudewijn Rempt  | http://www.valdyas.org
>


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From fredrik at effbot.org  Thu Jan 18 17:07:59 2001
From: fredrik at effbot.org (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 22:07:59 GMT
Subject: Python and Industry, IBM I'm afraid
References: <3A63D9E8.F9B74ACE@mjs400.co.uk> <mailman.979631000.28993.python-list@python.org> <941c14$dok$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <mailman.979786609.2939.python-list@python.org> <946evt02mr@news2.newsguy.com> <947ddt$g8a$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <3PJ96.7174$Qb7.1062791@newsb.telia.net>

Donn Cave wrote:
> But AIX's malloc is somewhat notorious for the converse:  request
> 0 bytes and get a null pointer.  I guess the rationale for this is
> something like "ask a silly question, get a silly answer", and it
> still does that to this day.

from SUSv2:

    "If the size of the space requested is 0, the
    behaviour is implementation-dependent; the
    value returned will be either a null pointer or
    a unique pointer."

(you can successfully store zero bytes at that location,
so what are you complaining about ;-)

and AIX isn't exactly alone here; thanks to a bug in PIL, I've
stumbled upon this on several platforms, including tru64.

    try:
        im = Image.new("L", (0, 0))
    except MemoryError:
        print "please upgrade to PIL 1.0 or later"

Cheers /F




From tim.one at home.com  Sun Jan 14 23:10:57 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 23:10:57 -0500
Subject: Python 3000.  Here we go again.
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0101142011080.14128-100000@y.glue.umd.edu>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCKEKCIIAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Roy Katz]
> Let's open healing wounds.
> I've looked around on python.sourceforge.net and python.org but I
> still can't find any official reference to Python 3000.

P3K is just a cute name for "what might happen someday".  It really doesn't
have a concrete meaning beyond that.

> ...
> - has anyone been thinking about a new design for Python?

Compared to Guido, many <wink>.  My *belief* is that reality will force
Guido and his team to stick with incremental change; a total "flag day"
redesign looks increasingly unlikely.

> - is there any moderated forum specifically for Py3k brainstorming?

The Python world has no moderated forums at all, apart from
comp.lang.python.announce.  There's a Python-Dev mailing list whose archives
are readable (provided you can find them), but the only way to get on that
is to be invited by Guido, and the only sure way to get invited is to
establish a history of making solid contributions to Python development
(contributing amazing code, fixing insidious bugs, writing breathtaking
PEPs, ...).

> justification for my question in case I'm flamed again:

Hey, you're just asking questions.  I suppose that's damned good *reason* to
flame you, though!  Hmm.  I'll think about it.

> I want use static typing.  I want real class methods.  I want to
> be crazy and derive from an int. My programs could benefit from full
> lexical scoping. I *hope* any such rewrite retains case sensitivity
> (yes there are SIGs devoted to typing and scoping, but they don't
> necessarily relate to Py3k).

Contribute to the PEP process:  champion an idea and help make it happen:

    http://python.sourceforge.net/peps/

Note that lexical scoping is the subject of PEP 227; as the page says, it
may even be part of Python 2.1.  But note too that if it is, it won't happen
because someone asked for it, but because someone wanted it enough to do all
the work (incl. a tasteful yet irresistible sales job).

a-lot-like-real-life-ly y'rs  - tim




From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Tue Jan  9 18:04:05 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 00:04:05 +0100
Subject: mxTools (was Re: why no "do : until"?)
References: <937rqs01sal@news1.newsguy.com> <mailman.979035250.28265.python-list@python.org> <L3JTK6ALVzW6Ewyk@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <93g5k40ghl@news2.newsguy.com>

"Robin Becker" <robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:L3JTK6ALVzW6Ewyk at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk...
    [snip]
> I'm a minimalist; let 100 flowers bloom, but the core should really only
> include the minimal required. Fancy dates are a bit too far for me. I

I don't mind this philosophy, but _decent_ (not _fancy_) date/time
handling should be among the libs distributed with Python, IMHO --
looks far more 'foundational' to me than (e.g.) all the modules now
documented in chapter 14 of the library reference, or, say, bisect,
fpformat, or imaplib.  If you added mxDateTime, while paring down
time a bit and perhaps removing calendar, you could end up with two
date-and-time-handling modules, one low-level and one high-level,
in a nice and very usable organization.

> like them, but would prefer such exotica to stay outside the main
> distribution. Same goes for a lot of other stuff eg idle tkinter etc
> etc. I reckon a lot of the desire for core growth would reduce if there
> were a CPAN like scheme for Python.

I fully agree on the latter point.  But a standard Python type to
represent date-and-time is needed (besides already-mentioned
relational databases) to interface to Corba, to COM, basically to
any "real-world programming framework" -- it's not just DBMS's
that care about date-and-time issues.  If possible, such a
foundational type should not be relegated to 'optional' status
any more than, say, complex numbers, file-objects, etc.


Alex





From t.harris at robinsons.co.uk  Thu Jan 18 10:18:46 2001
From: t.harris at robinsons.co.uk (Toby)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 15:18:46 -0000
Subject: Callback functions
References: <979830678.28930.1.nnrp-10.c3ad12d2@news.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: <979831100.29158.1.nnrp-10.c3ad12d2@news.demon.co.uk>

I forgot to mention... Im using Python 2.0


"Toby" <t.harris at robinsons.co.uk> wrote in message
news:979830678.28930.1.nnrp-10.c3ad12d2 at news.demon.co.uk...
> I am in the process of writing an extension to python for Windows NT using
> VC++ which implements a peer to peer network driver written in C++
compiled
> into a DLL.
>
> The C++ driver requires a callback into python code, I have got to the
point
> where a test function written in C++ to callback the python function works
> successfully, but all attempts to call the python callback from within the
> C++ DLL fail at :
>
>     result = PyEval_CallObject(func, args);
>
> I have printed values for func and args and they appear identical when
> called from Python and from the DLL... however I get the following error
>
>     The instruction at "0x0023f4b3" referenced memory at "0x0000000c". The
> memory could not be "read".
>
> I have scoured much of the online documentattion regarding extending &
> embedding Python all without success...
>
> Any help is much appreciated
> Toby
>
>




From rcameszREMOVETHIS at dds.removethistoo.nl  Thu Jan 11 19:33:58 2001
From: rcameszREMOVETHIS at dds.removethistoo.nl (Robert Amesz)
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 00:33:58 GMT
Subject: why no "do : until"?
References: <mailman.979188492.12187.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <90278A4rcamesz@127.0.0.1>

Delaney, Timothy wrote:

>Alex Martelli, notice where you went wrong ...
>
>You proposed
>
>     loop:
>          something
>     while condition:
>          something else
>
>and got shot down in flames. However,
>
>     do:
>          something
>     while condition:
>          something else
>
>seems to be garnering support.

Well, to put in my fl 0,02 (soon te be about E 0,01 <g>) I have to say 
I feel that syntax is flawed: not only does it break the block in two 
parts (whereas a dedent in other cases means the end of the block is 
reached), but it's also visually ambiguous because a 'while' could be 
the start of a loop, but it might also be somewhere in the middle of 
one.

As I prefer programming languages to be as context-free as possible, 
I'd like to make a counter-proposal:

     do:
          something
          until condition
          something else

The 'something else' is optional, of course. As for semantics,

     do:

would mean *exactly* the same as

     while 1:

and

     until condition

would mean *exactly* the same as

     if condition: break


All syntactic sugar, I admit, but so was the other proposal. However, 
this proposal would have a lot less impact on the overall syntax of 
Python, which would seem to be more in keeping with its modest goals.


Robert Amesz


From dsh8290 at rit.edu  Mon Jan 29 12:30:30 2001
From: dsh8290 at rit.edu (D-Man)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 12:30:30 -0500
Subject: curly-brace-aphobic?
In-Reply-To: <3A757FBE.E54C5ECD@seebelow.org>; from not.this@seebelow.org on Mon, Jan 29, 2001 at 08:35:42AM -0600
References: <3A74EBD6.3C87FD15@seebelow.org> <slrn97a9fu.7sf.clgonsal@keeshah.penguinpowered.com> <3A757FBE.E54C5ECD@seebelow.org>
Message-ID: <20010129123030.D16071@harmony.cs.rit.edu>

On Mon, Jan 29, 2001 at 08:35:42AM -0600, Grant Griffin wrote:
| C.Laurence Gonsalves wrote:
| > 
| ...
| > I'm not sure why you need to be reminded whether something is a sequence
| > or a dictionary.
| 
| I guess it's because sequences and dictionaries are conceptually very
| different.  (You can tell, because we have a special word just to

I'm not sure how different they are conceptually.  A dictionary is a
collection (sequence) of data that is indexed by arbitrary keys.  A
list is a collection (sequence) of data that is indexed by integers
only.  It seems to me that a list is a special case of a dictionary.
How about classes that implement __getitem__?  They perform the same
operation, just according to their own rules.  If the class is written
to follow the same rules a dictionary or a list follows, but do some
extra magic on the side, it could be used in place of the
dictionary/list without any modification to the client code.

I think that the same syntax is used because they are the same
operation, just slightly different restrictions/rules.

Just my own $0.02.
-D




From loredo at spacenet.tn.cornell.edu  Mon Jan 15 17:28:57 2001
From: loredo at spacenet.tn.cornell.edu (Tom Loredo)
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 17:28:57 -0500
Subject: do python programmers avoid the mac?
References: <3A607DCC.7EF7809C@mjs400.co.uk> <Uy086.5867$Qb7.841014@newsb.telia.net> <3A60DF26.C7B6F785@mjs400.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3A6379A9.27C124C8@spacenet.tn.cornell.edu>

Pete wrote:
> 
> Hi Fredrik
> 
> Played with python on mac OS 9 for a few months...lots of loud noises
> (me when it crashes again.) I'm thinking that with far fewer
> developer-eyes off the main-stream this thing is never going to be
> stable enough...

I have been using MacPython with OS9 for about a year, doing some pretty
heavy number crunching (I'm an astronomer who does a lot of statistical
computing).  I make some loud noises, but so far they have all been due
to bugs of my own creation in my Python code or C extensions!  MacPython
itself has behaved admirably.  I have been using 1.5.2; I've just started
using 2.0 and so far it's behaving fine, too.

At work I am using Python on a Solaris machine.  I have had no problems
continuing my work at home in the evening with the same Python code on the
Mac.  I must say that MacPython has changed my life, allowing me to work
as comfortably on my PowerBook as on my Sparcstation.

I should emphasize that I am not doing any GUI programming.  I could imagine
that would cause more problems.

Cheers,
Tom Loredo


From quinn at chunder.ugcs.caltech.edu  Sat Jan 20 16:44:33 2001
From: quinn at chunder.ugcs.caltech.edu (Quinn Dunkan)
Date: 20 Jan 2001 21:44:33 GMT
Subject: interesting bound-built-in-method technique
References: <9476k6$d55$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <slrn96k1m1.7c9.quinn@chunder.ugcs.caltech.edu>

On Thu, 18 Jan 2001 16:46:01 GMT, Chris Ryland <cpr at emsoftware.com> wrote:
>Reading the Quixote sources taught me an interesting little "hack"
>using bound-built-in methods:
>
>>>> m = {'foo': 1, 'bar': 0}.has_key
>>>> m('foo')
>1
>>>> m('bar')
>0
>
>Is this a common idiom in Python? Very clever for turning a dictionary
>lookup into a functional form.
>
>Are there other clever but generally obscure idia? (Idioms? ;-)

I occasionally use the following pattern:

def f(lst):
    r = []
    a = r.append
    a('this' + lst[0])
    a('that' + lst[1])
    ...
    return r

This is just to save typing, of course, but membership tests like [].has_key
are also useful to pass to functions like filter():

keys = ['baz', 'faz']
d = {'phoo': 1,  'bar': 2, 'baz': 10}
valid_keys = filter(d.has_key, keys)

python normally discourages writing little closures, but bound methods work
much more nicely.  Think of it as a bit of free curry :)


And I've also heard them called 'pydioms' :)


From emile at fenx.com  Mon Jan  8 00:07:16 2001
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2001 21:07:16 -0800
Subject: Execution of import (was Re: boolean xor)
References: <mailman.978928989.19268.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <93bi0c$9jqco$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>

If you switch it around, does it make a difference?

from operator import truth
def xor(a,b, truth = truth):
    return truth(a) ^ truth(b)

--

Emile van Sebille
emile at fenx.com
-------------------


"Tim Peters" <tim.one at home.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.978928989.19268.python-list at python.org...
> > def xor(a,b):
> >     from operator import truth
> >     return truth(a) ^ truth(b)
>
> [Peter Hansen]
> > An aside: does the 'from .. import' statement  execute
every time
> > the function 'xor' is called, or only during the
execution
> > of the 'def' statement?
>
> Every stmt in Python is executable except for "global",
and every executable
> stmt executes where it looks like it should <wink>.
"from" is the same as
> "x=1" in those respects (for that matter, so are "def" and
"class").  So,
> yes, every time 'xor' is called.  But imported modules are
cached in
> sys.modules, so anything that imports module X will cause
X to get
> *executed* only if it's the first time X is imported (by
anything) during
> the program run.  Imports of X after the first are just
lookups, mapping the
> module name to the (already executed) module object and
retrieving the
> latter.
>
> blazingly-fast-ly y'rs  - tim
>
>




From syver at NOSPAMcyberwatcher.com  Thu Jan 11 03:53:58 2001
From: syver at NOSPAMcyberwatcher.com (Syver Enstad)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 09:53:58 +0100
Subject: Using Python COM objects from C++
Message-ID: <ixe76.2667$k25.38410@news1.oke.nextra.no>

I don't know if this has been answered before here but..

I know how to call the python COM object using "pure" IDispatch, but is it
possible to make a type library and ensure that the Python class
implementing the COM complies with it?

The problem would be the dispatch id's as far as I can see. I don't know how
to specify the dispatch id's that the method's in the python object should
have.




From moshez at zadka.site.co.il  Fri Jan  5 19:38:56 2001
From: moshez at zadka.site.co.il (Moshe Zadka)
Date: Sat,  6 Jan 2001 02:38:56 +0200 (IST)
Subject: Migrating to perl?
In-Reply-To: <ggd56.4652$of7.222552@news1.atl>
References: <ggd56.4652$of7.222552@news1.atl>, <3Fa56.4580$of7.216286@news1.atl> <933fa1$j2i$1@newshost.accu.uu.nl>
Message-ID: <20010106003856.BD55EA84F@darjeeling.zadka.site.co.il>

On Fri, 5 Jan 2001, "Joel Ricker" <joejava at dragonat.net> wrote:

> From your examples, Pythons class model is much cleaner.

Personally, I fell in love in Python because of the object model.

>  Also if I
> understand your example, variables internal to the object are kept
> internal -- they can't be accessed without a proper method.  With perl
> anything goes. 

Nope. In Python, anything goes, too. Most people assume that if they
write in the docs what methods are external, intellegient people will
use them.

> I've mentioned before that I'm real new to OO.  How should I approach it in
> Python?  Has anyone learned OO just from Python?  Or should I study OO
> theory else where and then apply it to Python?

I have very little respect for OO theory. Don't write OO in Python --
write simple Python. It will be OO, because the language encourages
you to. People naturally write classes in Python, because it's the 
easiest way. 

> I know this is bordering on
> the question of how do I do OO but I really know very little about it...

OO is not a holy grail. Getting your job done is the important thing.
Writing idiomatic Python will help you get your job done, and will
usually encourage you to use OO so subtly you won't know you're doing
it -- you'll only know you're doing something right.

> I heard something about curley braces as well.  No {} for blocks?  Thats
> going to take some getting used to :)

It took me about 10 minutes. I learned Python one evening, and wrote
the next morning programs that worked. Without bugs. The first
time. 

don't-think-of-python-as-the-other-side--think-of-it-as-the-
-only-side-ly y'rs, Z.
-- 
Moshe Zadka <sig at zadka.site.co.il>
This is a signature anti-virus. 
Please stop the spread of signature viruses!



From emile at fenx.com  Fri Jan 19 11:51:33 2001
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 08:51:33 -0800
Subject: Evaluting a python code in a string
References: <Se_96.394$mY4.179630@news.uswest.net>
Message-ID: <949rce$cpd8r$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>

>>> a = 'print "hello"'
>>> exec(a)
hello
>>>

--

Emile van Sebille
emile at fenx.com
-------------------


"Steve Tuckner" <sat at multitech.com> wrote in message
news:Se_96.394$mY4.179630 at news.uswest.net...
> In Perl you can evaluation perl code that is embedded in a
string by using
> the Eval function. For example the following code:
>
> $i = "hello"
> eval "print $i";
>
> will print "hello" to the terminal.
>
> How can a person do a similar function in Python? I tried
the following
> code:
>
> import code
> c = code.compile_command("print \"hello\"")
> code.runcode(c)
>
> and I get a run-time exception: Attribute error: runcode.
I get the same
> error if instead I just use the runsource() function.
>
>




From timr at probo.com  Thu Jan 18 00:05:20 2001
From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 21:05:20 -0800
Subject: SQL-Statement with Python
References: <3A62E224.7AEE805E@students.uni-linz.ac.at> <93ut4q031hd@news1.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <28uc6ts3fn93pon3tahrvbqb26bc4of9hq@4ax.com>

"Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>import win32com.client
>
>connection = win32com.client.Dispatch("AdoDb.Connection")
>connection.Provider = "Microsoft.Jet.OLEDB.4.0"
>filename = r'd:\\mssdk\\bin\\nwind.mdb'

Thank you for providing this simple and understandable ADODB example.  I do
have one nit in that last line.  I think you want EITHER the "r" prefix, OR
the double backslashes.  Including both is just too much of a good thing...
--
- Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
  Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.


From moshez at zadka.site.co.il  Fri Jan  5 19:33:10 2001
From: moshez at zadka.site.co.il (Moshe Zadka)
Date: Sat,  6 Jan 2001 02:33:10 +0200 (IST)
Subject: Migrating to perl?
In-Reply-To: <V%c56.4648$of7.221797@news1.atl>
References: <V%c56.4648$of7.221797@news1.atl>, <3Fa56.4580$of7.216286@news1.atl> <mailman.978670867.31055.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <20010106003310.A73DEA84F@darjeeling.zadka.site.co.il>

On Fri, 5 Jan 2001, "Joel Ricker" <joejava at dragonat.net> wrote:

> I thought of the question about security and the need for taint modes but
> then I realized since there may not be system calls like `del *.*` there
> might not be a need for it.  I'm sure that if Python is in general use as a
> CGI language then those issues have been cleared up.  Are there any thing
> you have to watch for like running in taint mode in perl?

Well, there isn't anything like taint, but I've found no use for it.
In Python, you use real functions to do stuff you do via `` in Perl.
Compare

print $_, "\n" for (split `ls`);

And

for file in os.listdir('.'):
	print file

When trying to list a directory got from a CGI parameter:

print $_, "\n" for (split `ls $var`); # security risk: first check $var, -T

for file in os.listdir(var): # no security risk here
	print file

Similarily for other thing. AFAIK, the above is the idiomatic Perl to
do it. Not to mention wildcard interpretation: it's done directly
by Python, not passed to shell.

> I would hate to have to build a module like that from scratch,
> especially since graphic file standards are not exactly my forte.  I only
> have a vague understanding of their inner workings.

Luckily PIL (linked somewhere from www.pythonware.com) understands file
formats' inner workings very well.

> No kidding.  I just but Object Oriented Perl by Damian Conway and I thought
> I had the idea and concepts down and by the end of the third chapter it all
> came crashing down.  Things are working that shouldn't and vice versa.

I found Perl OO to be very easy -- because it's copied from Python, but
with Perl's syntax. So I just write Python code in Perl, and it pretty
much works. Of course, eval/if($@) is no where near the comfort of
try/except/finally/else. Since Python is a reference-based language,
I just think in Python when working with Perl references, and it 
works too. In fact, I think that learning Python before Perl
makes the later easier exactly for the same reasons learning Esperanto
before French makes learning French easier.

> perldoc perltoot

Which is actually quite good, as far as it goes.

> Could you use that to wrap Python around Mason?

Well, maybe, but why? Mason scripting will still be done in Perl.
You can use any of the existing half-a-dozen web-platforms in Python --
PMZ, PSP, WebWare, Quixote or Zope.

-- 
Moshe Zadka <sig at zadka.site.co.il>
This is a signature anti-virus. 
Please stop the spread of signature viruses!



From p.mayers at obfuscate.ic.ac.uk  Wed Jan 17 10:15:19 2001
From: p.mayers at obfuscate.ic.ac.uk (Phil Mayers)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 15:15:19 +0000
Subject: How to close all files between fork and exec?
References: <yv27l3upooj.fsf@lionsp093.lion-ag.de>
Message-ID: <3A65B707.2010506@obfuscate.ic.ac.uk>

You've got two choices:

1) If you know what file handles you'll have open always (you don't 
inherit any, and you open all the ones you use) you can set the 
close-on-exec flag like this:

     import fcntl
     import FCNTL

     st = fcntl.fcntl(fd, FCNTL.F_GETFD)
     if flag==1:
         fcntl.fcntl(fd, FCNTL.F_SETFD, st | FCNTL.FD_CLOEXEC)
     elif flag==0:
         fcntl.fcntl(fd, FCNTL.F_SETFD, st & ~FCNTL.FD_CLOEXEC)
     else:
         raise TypeError, "usage: setfd_cloexec(fd[,flag]) flag = 0 | 1"

     return st

2) Use the sysconf module to get the "real" max open files. If there 
isn't a limit (stupid...) then go as high as you think is "reasonable" 
given the environment you're inheriting from.

Cheer,
Phil

Harald Kirsch wrote:

> Python has fork/exec. I want to use it. After fork and before exec I
> would like the child process to close all files other than 0, 1 and 2
> (i.e. standard input/output/error). 
> 
> On some systems there is a constant like OPEN_MAX but I read that on
> recent Solaris versions there is no real limit to it.
> How do I get hold of the highest numbered open file descriptor, in
> particular in python?
> 
>   Harald Kirsch



From scarblac at pino.selwerd.nl  Wed Jan 31 19:50:02 2001
From: scarblac at pino.selwerd.nl (Remco Gerlich)
Date: 1 Feb 2001 00:50:02 GMT
Subject: Design for slices
References: <959uue$k02$1@cubacola.tninet.se>
Message-ID: <slrn97hc7t.ht5.scarblac@pino.selwerd.nl>

Gustaf Liljegren <gustafl at algonet.se> wrote in comp.lang.python:
> I'm learning Python and have a question about defining ranges/slices in 
> strings. I can't find any defence for what looks like a poor design, so I 
> have to ask. Why is the first character in the string x defined as x[0] and 
> not x[1]? This looks just like the typical geek thinking that I'm trying to 
> avoid with Python.

Because experience has taught generations of programmers that this is the
right thing to do.

For a string x of length n, the following simple equations hold:
x == x[0:i]+x[i:n]   for any i (even negative i)
len(x[i:n]) == n-i   for 0 <= i <= n
x[i:i] == []         for any i

This means that it's always simple to split strings. This is also the reason
that a string slice x[i:j] *does not* include x[j]. It really simplifies
situations that would otherwise call for "-1" and "+1" everywhere.
"Off-by-one errors" have caused lots of problems in the past. The Python
choice avoids these problems for the common cases.

People often say that you have to think of the indexes as marks *between*
the actual values. Say, you have the string "Python", then think of it as

 P y t h o n
0 1 2 3 4 5 6

And now it's obvious that "Python"[2:5] == "tho", a string of length 3,
which is expected since 5-2 = 3.

There are more reasons, but you'll come to appreciate them over time.

-- 
Remco Gerlich


From cobrien at Radix.Net  Sat Jan 27 08:35:43 2001
From: cobrien at Radix.Net (Cary O'Brien)
Date: 27 Jan 2001 08:35:43 -0500
Subject: How to check memory usage/leak of python script with C extendtion ..
References: <94srme$gr9$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <94uirf$h0$1@saltmine.radix.net>

In article <94srme$gr9$1 at nnrp1.deja.com>,  <etsang at my-deja.com> wrote:
>Hi,
>
>I am having a python script that interacts with a C executable through
>its pyhon C extension. I would like to monitor the memory usage of the
>whole thing? Do anyone know how to do it? Is there a tool availble for
>memory usage monitoring and memory leakage check for this situation??
>

Hmm.  On unix-like systems you should have "top" which shows memory
usage by process at regular intervals on the screen.  "ps" will do it
also.

Another approach is to use a system call tracer (strace/truss) to see
if your program calls sbrk() after it has initialized itself and
started running normally -- a sign that it is asking for more memory
from the os.

There are also malloc debugger type things of varying cost and complexity
from electric fence to purify (a commercial product).

If you're in the windows world someone else will have to help. Similar
fuctionality is undoubtedly available.

-- cary


From thomas at xs4all.net  Thu Jan  4 11:58:55 2001
From: thomas at xs4all.net (Thomas Wouters)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 17:58:55 +0100
Subject: Unexpected result for list operator "+="
In-Reply-To: <9320ei02tic@news2.newsguy.com>; from aleaxit@yahoo.com on Thu, Jan 04, 2001 at 03:12:43PM +0100
References: <3A542778.E1BC06E3@bogusaddress.com> <aDW46.2901$AH6.510940@newsc.telia.net> <9320ei02tic@news2.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <20010104175855.I2467@xs4all.nl>

On Thu, Jan 04, 2001 at 03:12:43PM +0100, Alex Martelli wrote:
> "Fredrik Lundh" <fredrik at effbot.org> wrote in message
> news:aDW46.2901$AH6.510940 at newsc.telia.net...
>     [snip]
> > 1) if anyone can figure out where list += is documented,
> > let us know...
> 
> I only see a very brief & indirect mention in passing at 3.3.4
> in the Python Reference Manual -- online version's URL
> http://www.python.org/doc/current/ref/sequence-types.html
> 
> """
> Finally, sequence types should implement addition (meaning concatenation)
> [snip]
> by defining the methods __add__(), __radd__(), __iadd__(),
> """
> (it continues by saying the methods are 'described below',
> but, they aren't).
> 
> Still better than the docs for numeric types -- this is the
> ONLY mention I can find of __iadd__ *anywhere* in the docs.

*That* is fixed in the newer docs. If you find a good place to add a list's
*=/+=, let me know. (Is the non-augmented * or + documented anywhere ?)

-- 
Thomas Wouters <thomas at xs4all.net>

Hi! I'm a .signature virus! copy me into your .signature file to help me spread!



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Tue Jan 30 12:04:21 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 18:04:21 +0100
Subject: Sets in Python
References: <956hcd$qef$1@tyfon.itea.ntnu.no>
Message-ID: <956s6k013u0@news2.newsguy.com>

"Magnus Lie Hetland" <mlh at idi.ntnu.no> wrote in message
news:956hcd$qef$1 at tyfon.itea.ntnu.no...
>
> I quite often use dictionaries as sets in Python... But it doesn't really
> seem pretty enough to me... Some arbitrariness (as with
> "while 1: ... break" I still don't like that one...) about using what
> to me is a value as a key, and assigning it some value -- like 1,
> for instance... And then checking it with has_key, and removing
> it with del...
>
> Isn't there a better (more beautiful) way of doing this?

Hi Magnus!  It's been a while...

In Python 2.1, you'll be able to use
    if x in dict
as a synonym for
    if dict.has_key(x)
[and *maybe* the for-loop equivalent, too -- I'm still unclear
about that one, and it doesn't seem to be in the first alpha].

This would seem to point to using dictionaries as sets.


> And if one was to write a small wrapper of some kind --
> is there any way to implement "x in s" without a linear search?
> Or does the "in" operator always loop from 0 and up?
> (It would certainly be nice to be able to override it...)

Time machine at work again -- you CAN 'override it' in the
current Python (2.0; unsure if that was in 1.6 too).  The
special method name you're looking for is __contains__ --
takes self and item, can apparently return any true or
false value (at least, that's how I read the docs).

Thus, it would seem that (without having to wait for 2.1)
implementing sets as class instances would not be too
bad, either (tiny overhead wrt using native dicts directly,
and you get to control the syntax sugar:-).  Supporting
'for x in myset' will require some (modest) trickery in
__getitem__ (caching a [sorted?] copy of the keys of the
dictionary attribute one uses for implementation, else
the overhead might become a tad too big, I suspect).  That
gets into murky territory in order to support semi-sensibly
such behavior as altering the set whose contents one is
looping on, considering the possibility that the for loop
may be prematurely terminated with a break (so one can't
know for sure when to throw away said cache), etc.  But, it
seems to me, nothing _too_ horrible.


Alex





From scarblac at pino.selwerd.nl  Mon Jan  1 10:23:59 2001
From: scarblac at pino.selwerd.nl (Remco Gerlich)
Date: 1 Jan 2001 15:23:59 GMT
Subject: Defining and calling functions in Python
References: <3A509C1A.57502916@online.no>
Message-ID: <slrn95182c.nls.scarblac@pino.selwerd.nl>

Stein Surland <ssurland at online.no> wrote in comp.lang.python:
> before the function is declared, I get this error message:
> 
> Traceback (innermost last):
>   File "./RPMParser.py", line 21, in ?
>     WriteToFile('file.txt', 'Some text')
> NameError: WriteToFile 
> 
> 
> But when I move the functioncall after the definition, it works OK. What
> am I missing
> here? I thought, as Python is an interpreted language, that I didn't
> need to "declare in order", as in C++?

It's more interpreted than you think. The function is defined *at runtime*,
def is just a statement, like print. So when you use it beforehand, the def
just hasn't happened yet.

-- 
Remco Gerlich


From barry at digicool.com  Sat Jan 20 18:08:50 2001
From: barry at digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 18:08:50 -0500
Subject: Tabbing/Spaces
References: <B68E060D.901B%bobhicks@adelphia.net>
	<mtzogn9rpx.fsf@astron.berkeley.edu>
	<mailman.979956202.19256.python-list@python.org>
	<mtpuhiaupn.fsf@astron.berkeley.edu>
Message-ID: <14954.6786.554404.726121@anthem.wooz.org>

>>>>> "JH" == Johann Hibschman <johann at physics.berkeley.edu> writes:

    JH> My mistake.  I just recently upgraded my python-mode, and
    JH> hadn't noticed the change, since I (setq indent-tabs-mode nil)
    JH> in my .emacs.  Thanks for the info; it's good to see
    JH> python-mode is sane.  :-)

T'was my primary goal after taking it over from the Timbot!



From s2mdalle at titan.vcu.edu  Sat Jan 27 13:51:35 2001
From: s2mdalle at titan.vcu.edu (David Allen)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 18:51:35 GMT
Subject: DataBase support
References: <3a72fff7@news.bezeqint.net>
Message-ID: <XMEc6.4236$xn.1153829@typhoon2.ba-dsg.net>

In article <3a72fff7 at news.bezeqint.net>, "guy bashan" <bashanguy at hotmail.com>
wrote:

> Hello,
> 
> I'm new to Python, and just installed the Komodo working with AcivePython
> 2.0.  I gave a little overview over the syntax and built-in capabilities and
> was really impressed.  But I couldn't notice any database support. Was I
> missing something ??    Does Python have any class dealing with databases
> and tables ??
> 
> Thanks. Bashan.
> 
> 

Yup.
http://www.faqts.com/knowledge-base/index.phtml/fid/260/lang/en

This covers sybase, postgres, mysql, and ms access.

I'm positive there are more, but this might be a 
good starting place.

-- 
David Allen
http://opop.nols.com/
----------------------------------------
"As soon as we started programming, we found to our surprise that it wasn't as 
easy to get programs right as we had thought. Debugging had to be discovered. 
I can remember the exact instant when I realized that a large part of my life 
from then on was going to be spent in finding mistakes in my own programs." 
	- Maurice Wilkes discovers debugging, 1949


From clarence at netlojix.com  Mon Jan 29 12:51:03 2001
From: clarence at netlojix.com (Clarence Gardner)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 09:51:03 -0800
Subject: Thread Safety
References: <mailman.980662149.14963.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <980790776.835347129@news.silcom.com>

[Summarizing]
>Python executes bytecodes atomically, but makes no guarantees beyond that.
>Do you still think you're "threadsafe"?
Nope.

[Tim Pedant (sorry, Peters) :) :) :)]
>It's impossible to say:  "thread safety" is not an absolute judgment, it's
>relative to the invariants your particular algorithm needs to preserve.
Sorry.  The question was wrt not losing any data items appended to
the global lists, given that the function shown is the only place that
the Pending... names are bound (other than initialization).
I should have thought of disassembling the code myself (as another helpful
mailed reply also did).  For some reason, I thought that the tuple-ness
of the construct I used would make a difference.  Why?  Beats me :)

[Aahz]
>That's safe, yes, for as long as the GIL exists.  I personally would
>prefer to use a singleton class instance or a static module variable
>rather than a "global" variable, but that's more a matter of taste.
Just for clarity, I'm assuming you mean for as long as the thread holds
it (rather than, "until Guido removes it"), which really changes your
answer to "That's not safe, no".  Given the need for mutex, I'll change
them to classes, I think.

[Tim]
>In your particular case, why try to be clever at all?  The loop doesn't
>wakeup more than once per 10 seconds, so the cost of a mutex lock/unlock
>pair would be insignificant.  In return, you get certainty.
Of course, I'll need to protect all the additions to the lists, also.
But looking at disassembly of various other code fragments (hey,
disassembling Python is fun!), I see that even if I was using a
pre-extended list and put in work with "Work[x] = NewWork", it still
would need to be protected.

[Tim]
>cleverness-is-the-#1-cause-of-thread-bugs-ly y'rs  - tim
[Clarence, humble]
I totally agree, though I didn't consider relying on atomicity as
extreme (or even any) cleverness.  Of course, being quite mistaken about
the extent of that atomicity was, shall we say, the antithesis of
cleverness.

[Aahz]
>In the end, though, I think I'd most likely split this loop into
>two separate threads and use Queue.Queue() unless you have a specific
>reason for wanting to batch up work every ten seconds.  That would
>guarantee the best response time.
Just to give you more info, the batching is because there can be up to
several hundred work items generated in ten seconds, and the functions
that dispose of them generate a network transaction for each batch.
There is no issue of response time in this case.


>Hey, CVS is open for business!  The only way a new release stablilizes is
>via people *using* it.  People who wait until the final release to report
>bugs are going to have to wait months for relief.
Along those lines, I'm going to repeat a question that I posted about a
week ago that passed without comment on the newsgroup.
The issue is the SSL support in the socket module, which raises an
exception when the reading socket is at EOF, rather than returning an
empty string.
I'm hesitant to call it a "bug", but I wouldn't have implemented it this
way.  There are the names of two people mentioned at the top of
socketmodule.c, but no contact information, so I'm suggesting here that
it be changed to conform to normal file/socket practice.
(SSL was actually added at 2.0, so I'm late to the party with this; mea
culpa, mea culpa.  I delayed trying Python2 because of the extension
rebuilding.)



From samschul at pacbell.net  Thu Jan 18 17:39:49 2001
From: samschul at pacbell.net (Sam Schulenburg)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 22:39:49 GMT
Subject: Can Python clear a DOS screen?
References: <mailman.979855434.16210.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <947rbk$1hn$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

The folowing works for me.

import os
os.system('cls')

Sam Schulenburg

In article <mailman.979855434.16210.python-list at python.org>,
  "Rolander, Dan" <Dan.Rolander at marriott.com> wrote:
> I've got a Python script that writes to a DOS console. Is it possible
to
> have the script clear the screen?
>
> Thanks,
> Dan
>
>


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From randy at spoke.net  Tue Jan 30 11:43:38 2001
From: randy at spoke.net (Randall Kern)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 16:43:38 GMT
Subject: curly-brace-aphobic?
References: <3A74EBD6.3C87FD15@seebelow.org> <slrn97a9fu.7sf.clgonsal@keeshah.penguinpowered.com> <slrn97bicg.8va.quinn@bolivar.ugcs.caltech.edu> <VQld6.131650$ge4.48028897@news2.rdc2.tx.home.com> <slrn97cu0u.eti.quinn@groat.ugcs.caltech.edu>
Message-ID: <_aCd6.867$pt6.74059@paloalto-snr1.gtei.net>

"Quinn Dunkan" <quinn at groat.ugcs.caltech.edu> wrote in message
news:slrn97cu0u.eti.quinn at groat.ugcs.caltech.edu...
> If C++ allows 'f(x) = y;', then C++ is truly weird.  What is *that*
supposed
> to mean?  'f(x)' returns a value, and assigning to a value makes no sense.
> You assign to variables, not values.  I could understand '*(f(x)) = y;',
but
> the only way I can see to get 'f(x) = y;' to do what you want is to have
'f'
> return an lvalue.

int i = 0;
int& f(int x)
{
    return i;
}

int main()
{
    f(2) = 5;  // the global i is now 5
}

The function f() has the return type 'int reference', like a pointer that
doesn't need to be dereferenced.
-Randy




From phawkins at connact.com  Sat Jan 13 13:23:12 2001
From: phawkins at connact.com (Patricia Hawkins)
Date: 13 Jan 2001 13:23:12 -0500
Subject: new enum idiom
References: <G6qzLy.6Fo@world.std.com> <938jmh$919$1@animus.fel.iae.nl> <3A58B9C0.9F2A5CC0@collins.rockwell.com> <mailman.978901807.742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <wk66jjqpkf.fsf@mail.connact.com>

>>>>> "JD" == Jan Dries <jan.dries at dcube-resource.be> writes:

JD> I once wrote a class to simulate enums. Using it, you can write:

JD>   colors = enum("GREEN","BLUE","RED","YELLOW")

JD> and you can subsequently refer to the enum constants as:
  
JD>   x = colors.GREEN

JD> If no value is supplied, the first name is assigned 0, the second 1 and
JD> so on. But you can supply values, as in:

JD>   colors = enum("GREEN=1","BLUE=0x08","RED","YELLOW")

Well, that implements most of _this_ thread, right there.  

I'd put off studying __setattr__ -- thanks, that's a nice example of
how to use it to prevent unwanted access.

Hope you don't mind, but in the course of playing with it, I added
type checking, improved the exception handling, and allowed split to
only split once, so that "PURPLE=3=4=5" will be a syntax error --
code, like cats, should barf easily, and without much distress.
 
Of course, you can still say:
        colors = enum("1=64", "GREEN=1","BLUE=0x08","RED","YELLOW")
but if the language allows it, who am I to disallow it?

#  Jan Dries <jan.dries at dcube-resource.be>
#  To: python-list at python.org
#  Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2001 22:09:22 +0100
#  Organization: D-Cube Resource
#
#
# PJH -- 1/13/2001
#        *Added type check -> raise TypeError.
#        *substitued AccessError for AttributeError,
#         so as to report the exact crime.
#        *Added maxsplit argument to split, now eval will check syntax
#         for us.
#

import exceptions
from types import *
import re

class enum:
    def __init__(self,*names):
        self.__mnames = {}
        value = 0;

        for i in names:
            pairs = re.split("\s*[=]\s*",i, 1)
            if len(pairs) == 2:
                value = eval(pairs[1])
            if type(value) not in (IntType, LongType):
                    raise TypeError, "Non-integer type %s: %s"%(type(value),str(value))
                
            self.__mnames[pairs[0]] = value
            value += 1
			
    def __getattr__(self,name):
        try:
            return self.__mnames[name]
        except:
            raise AttributeError
			
    def __setattr__(self,name,value):
        if name == "_enum__mnames":
            self.__dict__[name] = value
        else:
            raise AccessError, "You may not change %s.%s "%(self, name)

class AccessError(exceptions.Exception):
    pass





From csrabak at uol.com.br  Sat Jan 27 10:51:52 2001
From: csrabak at uol.com.br (Cesar Rabak)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 13:51:52 -0200
Subject: Problems with Install
References: <5.0.0.25.0.20010127045146.00a42dc0@thewebsons.com>
	 <5.0.0.25.0.20010126083542.009e3290@mail.earthlink.net>
	 <5.0.0.25.0.20010126083542.009e3290@mail.earthlink.net>
	 <20010126133015.B7309@harmony.cs.rit.edu>
	 <5.0.0.25.0.20010127045146.00a42dc0@thewebsons.com> <mailman.980608087.16691.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3A72EE98.59B7D765@uol.com.br>

Ben,

Lets 'parse' the error msg your getting:

> > > In file included from /usr/include/errno.h:36,
> > >                   from ../Include/Python.h:59,
> > >                   from myreadline.c:42:
> > > /usr/include/bits/errno.h:25: linux/errno.h: No such file or directory

myreadline.c at line 42 includes a file called errno.h which it expects
to be at /usr/include/bits/, this file includes Python.h which expects
to be found at ../Include (one dir up in the tree where this include
is), and then Python.h wants to include /usr/include/errno.h, which is a
common include file for the libc.

Do you have all these files in your installation?


From michael at stroeder.com  Sun Jan 21 12:44:48 2001
From: michael at stroeder.com (Michael =?iso-8859-1?Q?Str=F6der?=)
Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 18:44:48 +0100
Subject: Unicode string output
References: <mailman.980094083.22572.python-list@python.org> <m37l3o26ti.fsf@atrus.jesus.cam.ac.uk> <3A6B1AC3.E4D8582B@stroeder.com> <m34rys24p3.fsf@atrus.jesus.cam.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <3A6B2010.568002E1@stroeder.com>

Michael Hudson wrote:
> 
> Michael =?iso-8859-1?Q?Str=F6der?= <michael at stroeder.com> writes:
> 
> > Michael Hudson wrote:
> > >
> > > "Alexander Kostyrkin" <avkost66 at f4.dion.ne.jp> writes:
> > >
> > > > Surprisingly printing a unicode string that contains a Japanese kanji
> > > > character raises an exception
> > > > For example
> > > >
> > > >     print u"\u55f4"
> > > > UnicodeError: ASCII encoding error: ordinal not in range(128)
> > > >
> > >
> > > print u"\u55f4".encode('kanji')
> >
> > How about this?
> >
> > >>> u"\u55f4".encode('utf-8')
> > '\345\227\264'
> 
> Indeed.  The answer is, I guess, "it depends", hence why Python forces
> you to decide rather than assuming it knows what you're trying to do.

One has to specify an encoding for the Unicode character set. So the
more complete answer (list of possibilities in standard Python)
would be:

u"\u55f4".encode('utf-8')
u"\u55f4".encode('utf-16')
u"\u55f4".encode('utf-16-be')

List to be continued by the Unicode experts here...

The displaying application has to turn this into Unicode characters
of a local encoding and display the Kanji symbols for the
characters.

When doing e.g. web programming using utf-8 might be the best guess.

Ciao, Michael.


From kragen at dnaco.net  Tue Jan  2 04:40:10 2001
From: kragen at dnaco.net (Kragen Sitaker)
Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2001 09:40:10 GMT
Subject: Good introduction to functional programming with Python?
References: <mailman.977465166.28872.python-list@python.org> <91v4m001una@news2.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <_lh46.7854$uq.161752@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>

In article <91v4m001una at news2.newsguy.com>,
Alex Martelli <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote:
>A NON-pure language one SHOULD consider for its
>didactical strength is Scheme.  Abelson's and Sussman's "Structure
>and Interpretation of Computer Programs" will teach one Scheme in
>a strongly FP-oriented setting, and it's a great book on its own --
>I consider SICP as one of the main conceptual motivation to learn
>a little Scheme, just as Kernighan and Pike's "The Practice of
>Programming" is motivation enough to learn some C, or Fowler's
>"Refactoring" motivates one to pick up 'just enough Java to get by'.
>
>Scheme's syntax will feel pretty alien, what with all the darned
>parentheses, but, with Abelson and Sussman at hand, one soon
>gets past that and focuses on really deep and fascinating concerns.
>
>http://www.cs.rice.edu/CS/PLT/packages/drscheme/ gives a free
>and very good implementation . . .

And if you think this post is good advice, you should read
http://pobox.com/~kragen/progbooks.html too.



-- 
<kragen at pobox.com>       Kragen Sitaker     <http://www.pobox.com/~kragen/>
Perilous to all of us are the devices of an art deeper than we possess
ourselves.
       -- Gandalf the White [J.R.R. Tolkien, "The Two Towers", Bk 3, Ch. XI]




From grante at visi.com  Fri Jan 26 19:53:23 2001
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 00:53:23 GMT
Subject: Threading woes
References: <v%nc6.3118$xn.831173@typhoon2.ba-dsg.net>
Message-ID: <slrn974703.peh.grante@isis.visi.com>

In article <v%nc6.3118$xn.831173 at typhoon2.ba-dsg.net>, David Allen wrote:

>Now my question.  I'm trying to implement a STOP button. When the user
>clicks it, the program should stop what it's doing *IMMEDIATELY* and go
>idle.  Currently I've got STOP implemented, but it's horribly broken, and
>only somewhat works half of the time.  :)

Ah well, at least your Windows users will be happy.  ;)

[...]

>I know there's some technique I'm missing, or an approach that I just don't
>know about.  I just need a solution that meets 2 criteria:

Once you've got a socket open, you can add a read callback so that the
interpreter will call a given function any time there is data available. It
will process GUI events as normal when no data is waiting.

>- It allows my Tkinter GUI to not be hung, it processes events as normal so
>  if the user decides to grab a 40 terabyte file, the app doesn't hang.

Stopping during download is easy using the read callback method.

>- It is interruptable at any moment.  (i.e. if 
>  networking is down, and I call gethostbyname

That's the tricky part...  

The only thing I can think of is to open a pipe to another process that's
doing the lookup and hook a read callback to that pipe.  That way you can
kill the process when somebody hits STOP.

It should work in Unix, but can you hook a callback to a pipe in Win32?

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  UH-OH!! I put on
                                  at               "GREAT HEAD-ON TRAIN
                               visi.com            COLLISIONS of the 50's"
                                                   by mistake!!!


From Dan.Rolander at marriott.com  Thu Jan 25 14:13:39 2001
From: Dan.Rolander at marriott.com (Rolander, Dan)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 14:13:39 -0500
Subject: Path to script?
Message-ID: <6176E3D8E36FD111B58900805FA7E0F80CCF632A@mcnc-mdm1-ex01>

Is there a way for a script to determine where it is located, i.e. the
absolute path to the script? If I execute a script from some other current
working directory, I want the script to know where it is.

Thanks,
Dan




From bernhard at abnoba.intevation.de  Tue Jan  2 09:00:14 2001
From: bernhard at abnoba.intevation.de (Bernhard Reiter)
Date: 2 Jan 2001 14:00:14 GMT
Subject: Python Imaging Library and Windows HELP!
References: <cXe46.16108$n%.820749@news20.bellglobal.com>
    <sYe46.16115$n%.820734@news20.bellglobal.com>
Message-ID: <92smte$7te$1@newsserver.rrzn.uni-hannover.de>

In article <sYe46.16115$n%.820734 at news20.bellglobal.com>,
	"Jeffrey Drake" <codebert9 at users.sourceforge.net> writes:
> One other note, I am a beginner with python, just not beginning with coding.
> 
> "Jeffrey Drake" <codebert9 at users.sourceforge.net> wrote in message
> news:cXe46.16108$n%.820749 at news20.bellglobal.com...
>> I just downloaded and installed the Python  Imaging Libary for windows,
> and
>> it basically has a set of py files, a dll. There is absolutely no
>> documentation of what to do with this stuff.
>>
>> I added the directory to the pythonpath environment variable, copied the
>> .dll to the /windows/system dir and then when running a program that uses
>> it -

>>   File "c:\python20\py152\pil\Image.py", line 40, in __getattr__
>>     raise ImportError, "The _imaging C module is not installed"
>> ImportError: The _imaging C module is not installed

This looks strange somehow.
Try again, getting the the right stuff from:

http://piddle.sourceforge.net/downloads/

Just put its PIL directory somewhere in the python path.
	Bernhard
-- 
Professional Service around Free Software                (intevation.net)  
The FreeGIS Project                                         (freegis.org)
Association for a Free Informational Infrastructure            (ffii.org)
FSF Europe                                            (www.fsfeurope.org)


From chris.gonnerman at usa.net  Sat Jan 27 10:11:15 2001
From: chris.gonnerman at usa.net (Chris Gonnerman)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 09:11:15 -0600
Subject: cgi
References: <LNBBJMBHBAJKJGAJCGABCEJDCHAA.mnajmeddine@geo.census.gov>
Message-ID: <00db01c08873$6d0da040$a100000a@local>

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mohamed Najmeddine" <mnajmeddine at geo.census.gov>
> I have configured the IIS to run a simple cgi script named hello.cgi and
put
> the script on the dir c:/inetpub/wwwroot/cgi-bin/. The script is as
follows:
>
> print "Content-Type: text/html\n\n"
> print "Hello Python"
>
> and I got the following error message:
>
> CGI Error
> The specified CGI application misbehaved by not returning a complete set
of
> HTTP headers. The headers it did return are:
>
> syntax error at c:\inetpub\wwwroot\cgi-bin\hello.cgi line 4, near "print"
> Execution of c:\inetpub\wwwroot\cgi-bin\hello.cgi aborted due to
compilation
> errors.

Try to run the script directly from Python like so:

    python hello.cgi

You have a syntax error in the script.  I can't see an error in the sample
you posted, but there must be one there.

Also, regarding the registry setup for Python, using the -u (unbuffered)
option is sometimes necessary:

    "C:\python\python.exe -u %s %s"





From b012414 at mail.dvz.fh-koeln.de  Tue Jan 16 13:13:00 2001
From: b012414 at mail.dvz.fh-koeln.de (Stephan Effelsberg)
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 19:13:00 +0100
Subject: PIL: _imagingtk
References: <3A643929.D29A1840@mail.uct.ac.za>
Message-ID: <3A648F2C.7DD829B8@mail.dvz.fh-koeln.de>


James schrieb:
<snip>

> File "c:\python20\pil\ImageTk.py", line 123, in paste
>     import _imagingtk
> ImportError: No module named _imagingtk
> >>>
>
> Am using the binary releases of Python2.0, PIL 1.1.1, Numeric 17, and
> win32all(build 135) on win Nt...
>
> Thanks
> James

No, it seems that you're using the source distribution of PIL. Search for
the file _imagingtk.dll , you probably don't have it, but maybe you have
_imagingtk.c instead.
If you look at Pythonware's PIL page
    www.pythonware.com/products/pil/index.htm
you can see a link for an inofficial binary distribution for Win32, but
apparantly they don't have your library prebuilt.
Seems that you have either to use PIL1.0 or build PIL1.1.1 yourself ...

(And there's still the chance that I'm wrong, but I don't think so.)




From Lutz.Schroeer at tu-clausthal.de  Mon Jan  1 20:49:15 2001
From: Lutz.Schroeer at tu-clausthal.de (Lutz Schroeer)
Date: 2 Jan 2001 01:49:15 GMT
Subject: Simulating WWW button press
References: <Xns901CE2154Latzikatz@139.174.2.56> <mailman.978398162.28694.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Xns901D1B3B2Latzikatz@139.174.2.56>

Jan Dries <jdries at mail.com> wrote in
<mailman.978398162.28694.python-list at python.org>: 

Well, maybe this snippet of the (very unreadable) source is large enough.

<form ACTION="/dyx-pv/onepagebatch/lV21.zip" ENCTYPE=x-www-form-encoded 
METHOD=POST>

<INPUT NAME="zipallpage" TYPE="submit" VALUE="Get all files">
</form>

I tried and read some more stuff and ended at the example 11.3.2 in the
Library reference (1.5.2). Unfortunately my own
version of this code doesn't work (it stucks after the getfile() ). 

Is my suggestion right that the base address for the submission is the
same as the page's base address if the code defines nothing different? 

Additionally I came to the conclusion that I seem to have to send a
Content-Length header entry (the server replied me an error 411) but have 
no idea about the value.

To make it totally complicated the form is on a password protected page.
So how do I send my username and passwd to the server? 

Maybe this informtion 

(it's hard to express a quite complex problem in English which is not my
native language)

Lutz


From joya at foretec.com  Tue Jan 23 17:16:15 2001
From: joya at foretec.com (Joya Subudhi)
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 17:16:15 -0500
Subject: Join us at Python 9
Message-ID: <3A6E02AE.F739C173@foretec.com>

Hello all,
I hope you will join us for the Ninth International Python Conference in
Long Beach, California, March 5 - 8, 2001.  The attached brochure gives
you all the details on this year's conference!  Register online today at
http://www.python9.org to take advantage of Early Bird rates!  Early
Bird registration closes on Friday, February 2, 2001 (Midnight, EST).
For more information, please send email to info at python9.org.
Kind Regards,
Joya Subudhi
Foretec Seminars, Inc.

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From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Jan 29 00:46:58 2001
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 00:46:58 -0500
Subject: Pythonpath in Windows
References: <bc5d6.199994$iy3.48342380@news1.rdc1.tn.home.com>
Message-ID: <3A7503D2.7E06812D@engcorp.com>

Mike Callahan wrote:
> 
> I would like to get my windows python 2.0 to be able to import any script
> that is in the current working directory. Do I need to add '.' to the
> pythonpath in the registry? Is that the only thing?

Getting scripts in the current directory to be imported
is a tricky and involved procedure that goes like this:

 1. Import the script

Phew!  :)

That works on my machine, anyway, with what is I believe a
default Python 2.0 install under Win NT.

Actually, if the current directory is not already in the path, you
will have to add it somehow.  First thing to do is to check the
path from the interactive mode:

>>> import sys
>>> sys.path
['', 'c:\\', 'n:\\a\\python\\dlls', 'n:\\a\\python\\lib', 
'n:\\a\\python\\lib\\plat-win', 'n:\\a\\python\\lib\\lib-tk', 
'n:\\a\\python', 'n:\\lib\\python']

You need that first entry (doesn't have to be first, but the
directories are search in order) or .py files in the current
directory are not found by import.


From knotwell at ix.netcom.com  Wed Jan 31 22:50:07 2001
From: knotwell at ix.netcom.com (Brad Knotwell)
Date: 31 Jan 2001 19:50:07 -0800
Subject: question on threading.py
Message-ID: <86k87brrio.fsf@localhost.my.domain>

Hello all--

Do the _Condition methods notify and wait really need to call 
currentThread?  Unless currentThread has some side-effect I couldn't see
I think these methods don't have any reason to call them.

Lines 182 and 215 of v2.0 threading.py.

--Brad




From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Jan  2 23:48:49 2001
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2001 23:48:49 -0500
Subject: why no "do : until"?
References: <92jj3j$ff7$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <92m9pm$d19$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <B3z36.122$9s1.18804@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com> <3A4EC5B1.8912E571@engcorp.com> <x8G36.156$9s1.31209@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com> <3A4F4B4D.ECD6B172@engcorp.com> <rBr46.7783$4c.597712@ruti.visi.com> <slrn9550fe.rvi.kc5tja@garnet.armored.net>
Message-ID: <3A52AF31.F7A9C32E@engcorp.com>

"Samuel A. Falvo II" wrote:
> 
> That method is almost always self-inconsistent as well.  Most of the people
> I see using that technique writes code like this:
> 
> void f( int c )
> {
>    int x = 0;
> 
>    while( x < c )
>       {
>       printf( "X=%d\n", x );
>       x++;
>       }
> }
>
> To make it self-consistent, you need to do this:
> 
> void f2( int c )
>    {
>    int x = 0;
> 
>    while( x < c )
>       {
>       printf( "X=%d\n", x );
>       x++;
>       }
>    }

Phew!  I pass your self-consistency test! :-)  At first I did it
inconsistently, before I came to appreciate the inherent value of
consistency throughout.  Only problem I have is when I attempt to enclose
a block with braces strictly for scoping reasons -- I don't know whether
to indent the block or leave it outdented with the rest of the
instructions.  After all, there is no enclosing conditional or loop
structure:

void f()
    {
    int x;
    some code here;

    // dang: do I indent this or not?
    {
    int x;

    code that uses the inner x;
    }

    return;
    }


> However, the other view can also be considered -- the braces envelop a
> sequence of code to be treated as a single, logical statement, which of
> course statements like while() accept.  Thus, indenting them, along with the
> contained statements, also makes sense *if* you think of them in this way.

Exactly!  At least someone understands!  :-)

> There's really no right or wrong way -- it's all just a matter of personal
> preference.  

And that is pretty much inarguable.  

Except for the evil, ugly, inconsistent brace style which has the opening
brace on the end of a line and the closing brace outdented after the last
nested statement.  People who use that technique should be barred from
programming, not to mention shot.  I'd say "in my opinion" but of course
this is a matter of *fact* and not open to discussion, so there.  :-)


From b012414 at mail.dvz.fh-koeln.de  Thu Jan 18 05:45:56 2001
From: b012414 at mail.dvz.fh-koeln.de (Stephan Effelsberg)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 11:45:56 +0100
Subject: Displaying HTMLs with Tkinter
References: <945db6$umq$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <945g0b$sd$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <3A66C964.46EEE52C@mail.dvz.fh-koeln.de>


penman schrieb:
<...>

> The Tk module indeed does have the capability to display HTML.  If you
> look
> in the Demos/www directory in the standard Python distribution, try
> running
> "www8.py file:<filename>" and "www12.py file:<filename>".
> [end of quote]
>
> But I can't find the files anywhere. Are they obsolete now?

In my distribution (1.5.2 for Windows) it is located in Demo/tkinter/www .

You can still download this version if it is missing(?) in yours .




From serdars at ixir.com  Thu Jan  4 15:22:41 2001
From: serdars at ixir.com (Serdar Soydemir)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 22:22:41 +0200
Subject: Stand-Alone Python Application
In-Reply-To: <3A53B90F.6EFBC9B2@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <BPEKKLEMEILKBMAKMBKOCELGCGAA.serdars@ixir.com>

Thank you for the great hint. Further information about stand-alone
applications can be found at
http://starship.python.net/crew/gmcm/distribute.html


--
Serdar


-----Original Message-----
From: terry at earthlink.net [mailto:terry at earthlink.net]On Behalf Of Terry
Hancock
Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2001 1:43 AM
To: Serdar Soydemir
Subject: Re: Stand-Alone Python Application


Serdar Soydemir wrote:
> Is there a way to compile python scripts and make a standalone
application?
> As PerlEx does for Perl scripts? Or Python must always be installed before
> running any script, as VB programs depends VB Runtime files?

According to "Learning Python" (p. 138) this can be done by the
"freeze" tool, which converts a python script into bytecodes and
packages the required parts of the interpreter.  The whole thing
is converted to C source code with a makefile which you run to





From fgeiger at datec.at  Thu Jan 25 08:10:22 2001
From: fgeiger at datec.at (Franz GEIGER)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 14:10:22 +0100
Subject: Why does using threads not speed up things?
References: <94oob9$ahq$1@newsreaderg1.core.theplanet.net> <mailman.980416529.1110.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <94p8i7$j26$1@newsreaderg1.core.theplanet.net>

Sorry Sean,

this question really was not very precise. Sorry abaout that, stupid me.

Source was on a machine in the LAN, destination on the local machine (drive
D:).

Singlethreaded: Scanning the directory tree on the machine in the LAN took
1300 seconds, 600 secs for the local drive.
Multithreaded: This was in total 300 secs faster, which means, that 50% of
the "local job" were done in parallel to the "LAN job". Now that's really
not so bad, is it?

Thanks for your quick reply and sorry not being that precise.

Best regards
Franz

"Sean Reifschneider" <jafo-pythonlist at tummy.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.980416529.1110.python-list at python.org...
> On Thu, Jan 25, 2001 at 09:33:36AM +0100, Franz GEIGER wrote:
> >As I said I'd expected more, because there is a lot of slow disk I/O
> >involved and data transfer over a 10MBit section of our LAN. Or did I
miss
> >something?
>
> I think you missed the part where you're supposed to profile your code to
> determine exactly where the time is being spent.  For example, it may
> be that you can get a big win on typical traffic by running it through
> the zlib module to compress the data-stream.  If you have more CPU than
> bandwidth.
>
> The gains you might achieve depend largely on what your app is doing,
> of course.  If it spends 90% of it's time trying to shove data over the
> network, the best improvement you can hope for without reducing the amount
> of data you send is 10%, right?
>
> Sean
> --
>  "Action...  Romance...  Welding...  That movie has everything."
>                  -- Evelyn Mitchell speaking about _Subway_, 1998
> Sean Reifschneider, Inimitably Superfluous <jafo at tummy.com>
> tummy.com - Linux Consulting since 1995. Qmail, KRUD, Firewalls, Python
>




From tjg at exceptionalminds.com  Sat Jan 27 19:54:03 2001
From: tjg at exceptionalminds.com (Timothy Grant)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 16:54:03 -0800
Subject: PyMacs vs. Pym (was: Pyditor, Text editor fully extendible in python a la' Emacs)
In-Reply-To: <20010127204110.6e694608.ngreco@softhome.net>; from ngreco@softhome.net on Sat, Jan 27, 2001 at 08:41:10PM -0300
References: <20010127193848.59d0f64b.ngreco@softhome.net> <HBEJKOJGHBOIBHLHPMKGIEAACIAA.rcalco@cortechs.com> <20010127204110.6e694608.ngreco@softhome.net>
Message-ID: <20010127165403.A29068@trufflehunter.avalongroup.net>

You should check out glimmer. It has no where near the features of emacs or
vim, but it is simple, and is extended with the use of python modules. It
does do syntax hilighting and a number of other nice things.

On Sat, Jan 27, 2001 at 08:41:10PM -0300, Nahuel Greco wrote:
> On Sat, 27 Jan 2001 18:18:23 -0500
> "Bob Calco" <rcalco at cortechs.com> wrote:
> 
> > Nahuel:
> > 
> > Basically, it sounds like you want PyMacs: Emacs - iLisp + Python. Some

-- 
Stand Fast,
    tjg.

Timothy Grant                         tjg at exceptionalminds.com
Red Hat Certified Engineer            www.exceptionalminds.com
Avalon Technology Group, Inc.                   (503) 246-3630
>>>>>>>>>>>>>Linux, because rebooting is *NOT* normal<<<<<<<<<
>>>>This machine was last rebooted:  11 days  4:48 hours ago<<



From jasonic at nomadicsltd.com  Sat Jan 27 20:30:27 2001
From: jasonic at nomadicsltd.com (Jason Cunliffe)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 20:30:27 -0500
Subject: Pyditor, Text editor fully extendible in python a la' Emacs
References: <mailman.980635233.16241.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <t76tami4rvsj13@corp.supernews.com>

Nahuel Greco <ngreco at softhome.net> wrote in message
news:mailman.980635233.16241.python-list at python.org...
> I have a dream, of a perfect text editor (im calling it pyditor, but name
it
> as you want ):

'Perfect test editor' could start a religous war a this is like saying
'perfect huamn being'. Every persons neds are different and continue to
change.

For Python-oriented people, does'nt the need for useful Python tools pretty
much mean that sooner or later 'text-editor' becomes 'IDE'?

[...snip impressive feature wishlist...]

>  I cant think a way that this will not be a python killer-app, and extend
>  the use of python to all the programmers / guys that use too much a text
>  editor community.

I agree that Pythonic text editor is a terrific idea, and would be of great
strategic value. A very ambitious project.

A small parallel, is perhaps what is happening now with Blender
http://www.blender.nl, a free cross-platform 3D modelling and animation
software with Python API. The Python API is really opening up the use of
Blender and also motivating new people to Python programming
http://www.janw.gothere.uk.com/documentation.html
http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~acox/index.html
http://jmsoler.free.fr/didactitiel/blender/tutor/english/python_script00.htm
with Lovely Potatoids!!
http://jmsoler.free.fr/didactitiel/blender/tutor/english/python_script05.htm
http://jmsoler.free.fr/didactitiel/blender/tutor/python_wireshadows.htm
http://jmsoler.free.fr/didactitiel/blender/tutor/english/index_prog_python.h
tm

Interstingly Blender is free, cross-platform but not openSource.
Does not appear for thime being to hinder al sorts of intersting Python
developments with it.

[...snip..]

>  But, i dont have the time and the editor code knowledge to code this
piece of
>  software, im only posting the ideas. I think that before write this, will
be
>  good to analize the code / API of Emacs / Xemacs / Texmacs / Lyx, and
other
>  editors to code the perfect one :)

Two projects you should pehaps look into more deeply:

wxPython
http://wxpython.org/
There are some editor examples in the wxPython Demo, included when you
download it.
Check out #\python\wxPython\demo\wxPyEditor.py
-----------------------------
#wxPyEditor.py
from wxPython.wx         import *
from wxPython.lib.editor import wxEditor, wxPyEditor

def runTest(frame, nb, log):
    win = wxPanel(nb, -1)
    ed = wxEditor(win, -1, style=wxSUNKEN_BORDER)
    pyed = wxPyEditor(win, -1, style=wxSUNKEN_BORDER)
    box = wxBoxSizer(wxVERTICAL)
    box.Add(ed, 1, wxALL|wxGROW, 5)
    box.Add(pyed, 1, wxALL|wxGROW, 5)
    win.SetSizer(box)
    win.SetAutoLayout(true)

    ed.SetText(["",
                "This is a simple text editor, the class name is",
                "wxEditor.  Type a few lines and try it out.",
                ""])

    pyed.SetText(["# This one is a derived class named wxPyEditor.",
                  "# It adds syntax highlighting, folding (press",
                  "# F12 on the \"def\" line below) and other stuff.",
                  "import sys",
                  "def hello():",
                  "    print 'hello'",
                  "    for x in sys.path:",
                  "        print x",
                  ""])
    return win
-----------------------------
Boa Constructor
http://boa-constructor.sourceforge.net/
:See how/what could be separated from that to meet your needs.
:Boa already has some nice beginnings of Python editor

Scintilla:
http://www.scintilla.org/
<quote>
Development of Scintilla started as an effort to improve the text editor in
PythonWin. After being frustrated by problems in the Richedit control used
by PythonWin, it looked like the best way forward was to write a new edit
control. The biggest problem with Richedit and other similar controls is
that they treat styling changes as important persistent changes to the
document so they are saved into the undo stack and set the document's dirty
flag. For source code, styling should not be persisted as it can be
mechanically recreated.

Scintilla and SciTE are currently available for Intel Win32 and Linux
compatible operating systems with GTK+. They have been run on Windows 95, NT
4.0, Windows 2000, and on Red Hat Linux 4.2, 6.1 and Solaris with GTK+
1.2.0.
</quote>
used in Boa also I think


- Jason
___________________________________________________________
Jason CUNLIFFE = NOMADICS['Interactive Art and Technology']




From tim.one at home.com  Wed Jan 17 17:06:31 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 17:06:31 -0500
Subject: Any way to restrict execution with regard to execution time??
In-Reply-To: <944n1v$8t6$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCMEEMIJAA.tim.one@home.com>

[rturpin at my-deja.com]
> The restricted execution module let's you run untrusted code
> in a fashion that gives it only guarded access to the file
> system, operating system services, and other important
> resources. However, it provides no guard for the most important
> resource: execution time. The moment untrusted code is
> invoked by r_exec, it can go into an infinite loop.
> ...
> How can C1 run C2 guaranteeing that C2's execution is
> interrupted after some finite amount of time, if it hasn't
> finished by then? C2 is from an untrusted source, so the
> answer cannot be phrased in terms of how C2 is written. I'd be
> much obliged to anyone who can tell me how to do this!

How would you accomplish this in C?  Same thing.

Since Python runs arbitrary C code in 3rd-party extension modules too
(trusted or not), there's nothing Python can do for you here on its own.
Python isn't an OS.  The only semi-portable approach I know of is to spin
off C2 into a separate *process*, and use native OS process-peeking
facilities to monitor its resource use (time isn't the only thing you should
be worried about -- disk use, # of network connections, memory use, yadda
yadda), and native OS process-killing facilities to punish the wicked.

no-magic-here-ly y'rs  - tim




From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Tue Jan 23 07:05:55 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 13:05:55 +0100
Subject: Control of __doc__ strings
References: <mailman.980197704.24948.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <94js2u01ek5@news1.newsguy.com>

"Terry Hancock" <hancock at earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:mailman.980197704.24948.python-list at python.org...
    [snip]
> (Comments are stripped out during byte-compilation,
> whereas doc strings are kept at run time).
>
> Does python have a way to shut off a piece of
> code during byte-compiling (the way that a

Passing the -OO switch to the Python executable will
ask it to remove docstrings from the resulting
compiled files (.pyo), as well as doing a few other
minor optimizations which -O by itself would also do.


Alex





From s2mdalle at titan.vcu.edu  Sat Jan  6 02:07:55 2001
From: s2mdalle at titan.vcu.edu (David Allen)
Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2001 07:07:55 GMT
Subject: Misc Tkinter questions
Message-ID: <fvz56.2322$bR3.555232@typhoon2.ba-dsg.net>

I've been looking through Frederick Lundh's introduction
to Tkinter, and the reference pages, but I'm left
with a lot of questions...mostly things that I'm used
to doing with other toolkits that I can't find out
how to do in python.  Any gaps that could be filled
in by anybody here would be greatly appreciated.

1.) How do you hide widgets?  (Is this wid.withdraw())
2.) How do you show widgets?  (undo 1.)
3.) How do you fix the size of a window?  I'm using
a window that's a subclass of Tk, and I would like
to know how to make it so that if the widgets within
the window shrink, the window stays the same size.
(i.e. put a solid minimum size on the window, which
can grow)
4.) Is it kosher to wid.destroy() something that's
packed into something else and then pack something
else in?  I.e.:

class Thingy(Frame):
   def __init__(self, *args):
      Frame.__init__(self)
      self.myframe = Frame(self)
      self.myframe.pack()
      self.button = Button(self.myframe,
                           text="foo", 
                           command=self.doIt)
      self.button.pack()
   def doIt(self, *args):
      self.button.destroy()
      self.button = Button(self.myframe, 
                           text="Bar",
                           command=self.doIt)
      self.button.pack()
      return None

I ask this because I"ve been getting a lot of very
strange exceptions out of Tkinter and Pmw recently,
and I'm wondering if this type of thing is related.

5.) Why can't you mix grid() and pack()?   (I ask
because I like grid layouts in most situations, but
I can't use fill=1, expand='x' when using grid)

6.) Is it better to create all of your widgets,
then pack them in going from the inside out, or
is it better to pack them as you create them?  Or
does it make a difference?  I.e. which is better:

THIS:
p = Panel(somepanel)
another = Panel(p)
yetanother = Panel(another)

yetanother.pack()
another.pack()
p.pack()

OR THIS:
p = Panel(somepanel)
p.pack()
another = Panel(p)
another.pack()
yetanother = Panel(another)
yetanother.pack()

Any help would be appreciated.  If there's some
documentation that I'm missing that makes any of
these questions silly, please point it out to me! :)

-- 
David Allen
http://opop.nols.com/
----------------------------------------
A free society is one where it is safe to be unpopular.
                -- Adlai Stevenson


From rcalco at cortechs.com  Mon Jan  1 16:37:08 2001
From: rcalco at cortechs.com (Bob Calco)
Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2001 16:37:08 -0500
Subject: Recursion
In-Reply-To: <slrn951srp.o20.scarblac@pino.selwerd.nl>
Message-ID: <HBEJKOJGHBOIBHLHPMKGAECLCFAA.rcalco@cortechs.com>

Remco:

# I don't have time to answer your other questions, but note that this is a
# very naive implementation.

Yeah. I promised myself last night after much merriment and fine spirits
that I wasn't going to sit down and try to do anything that required thought
today. I broke that promise, with embarrassing results. ;)

# Using oversimplified code for benchmarks isn't very useful.

Aye, you can say that again. Thanks for the note. Sorry I wasted your time.

Happy New Year!

:)

Sincerely,

Bob Calco




From claird at starbase.neosoft.com  Thu Jan  4 15:18:04 2001
From: claird at starbase.neosoft.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: 4 Jan 2001 14:18:04 -0600
Subject: Python vs. PHP (& Java?)
References: <mailman.978633185.3019.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <A472D7B39D65BAF7.470EE146ECAF7FE2.F6BE3A18609844DA@lp.airnews.net>

In article <mailman.978633185.3019.python-list at python.org>,
Ben Ocean <zope at TheWebsons.com> wrote:
			.
			.
			.
>PHP is a hacker's language. Why else would GNU choose Python to write
>Mailman, O'Reilly not publish a book on the subject, etc.? PHP appears to be
>a quick fix.
			.
			.
			.
Rasmus started PHP to do a small, local job, and
he's consistently been very modest about PHP's
semantic depth.

However, I'm EXTREMELY reluctant to support the
data for which you seem to seek ratification, let
alone the conclusion.  GNU didn't choose Python
for Mailman; Mailman people choose Python, and GNU
insiders went along (and even that abbreviates the
story).  O'Reilly hasn't published a book on
Smalltalk, but I know of no one who denies that a
lot of design went into Smalltalk.  Anyway, ORA
published *PHP Pocket Reference* almost a year ago.

PHP doesn't scale as well as Python, in several
respects.  There's no facile proof of that that I
know, though; it's not a superficial result access-
ible through glib circumstantial evidence.
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at NeoSoft.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://starbase.neosoft.com/~claird/home.html


From skip at mojam.com  Sun Jan 28 22:31:42 2001
From: skip at mojam.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 21:31:42 -0600 (CST)
Subject: distutils question - anything akin to make's -n flag?
Message-ID: <14964.58398.110151.895786@beluga.mojam.com>

I'm getting ready to install a distutils-aware package for the first time.
The README that came with it says to execute

    python setup.py build
    python setup.py install

This seems easy enough, but before installing a package for the first time
I'm used to being able to execute

    make -n install

to see what potential harm it could inflict on my system.  I saw nothing in
a quick scan of the distutils documentation to suggest there is an
equivalent to make's -n flag.  Am I missing something or am I at the mercy
of the module author?

Thx,

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at mojam.com)
Support Mojam & Musi-Cal: http://www.musi-cal.com/sponsor.shtml
(847)971-7098



From dario at _no_spam_.ita.chalmers.se  Fri Jan 12 02:58:43 2001
From: dario at _no_spam_.ita.chalmers.se (Dario Lopez-Kästen)
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 08:58:43 +0100
Subject: Calling Java Code from CPython (1.5.2 or 2.0)
Message-ID: <93mdfs$g7q$1@nyheter.chalmers.se>

Hello!

<newbie class="clueless">

I would like to know if it is possible to call Java Code from CPython (as in
not Jython or JPython). I am asking this, because i'd like to be able to
experiment using JDBC in conjunction with python; specifically, I want to
use Zope and JDBC drivers on Solaris/Linux and that "other" operating system
to connect to Oracle, MIMER and some other DBMSs we have.

There is one JDBC database adapter for JPython, but I don't know if it is
possible to mix JPython/Jython with CPython.

</newbie>

I have searched the archives but all references to Java and Python end up in
Jython/JPython.

I might add that I am a new Python user and haven't really had time to do
anythin usefull so far; therefore, any help is appreciated.

TIA,

/dario

- --------------------------------------------------------------------
Dario Lopez-K?sten     Systems Developer  Chalmers Univ. of Technology
dario at ita.chalmers.se  ICQ will yield no hits    IT Systems & Services




From facelle at jumpy.it  Mon Jan 29 14:59:30 2001
From: facelle at jumpy.it (Fabrizio)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 20:59:30 +0100
Subject: mxODBC Help
Message-ID: <954i0o$pg4$1@serv1.albacom.net>

Hi,

Newbie, Python2.0, Windows98.


I just would like to try to access to some MS Access or MS Excel data to
play around with Python.

I am trying to install mxODBC on my system, but this is what I get if I run
the included "test.py" script (I have installed Date Time and it seems to
work fine):


========================================================================
mxODBC Test Suite
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Subpackage Name [Windows]:
DriverConnect arguments [DSN=test;UID=test;PWD=test]:
Clear AUTOCOMMIT  ? (1/0) [1]
Run tests continuously to check for leaks ? (y/n) [n]
Show driver type information ? (y/n) [n]
Output file [stdout]:

Test suite:
 Connecting to the database.
Traceback (innermost last):
  File "C:\Python20\Lib\ODBC\Misc\test.py", line 1054, in ?
    rc = main()
  File "C:\Python20\Lib\ODBC\Misc\test.py", line 1004, in main
    connection = apply(connectapi,connectargs)
OperationalError: ('IM002', 0, '[Microsoft][ODBC Driver Manager] Nome
origine dati non trovato e driver predefinito non specificato.', 4316)


The last line, in Italian, sounds like : "Couldn't find data origin name and
predefined driver not specified".


What is wrong ?
Thanks in advance.

Fabrizio C.













From kpmurphy at my-deja.com  Tue Jan 30 10:31:08 2001
From: kpmurphy at my-deja.com (Keith Murphy)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 15:31:08 GMT
Subject: sockets: client dies...
References: <94kmt5$cuj$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <3A6F8AB1.BDF23F5D@home.com> <94pj8n$jfl$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <94pn5h$t3e$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu> <94uibd$t8c$1@saltmine.radix.net>
Message-ID: <956mns$5i2$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

my major problem is that this is all fine and dandy, with one client and
one server... but what happens when you have multiple clients on a
single server?  you get hung up waiting for responses from each client.
i guess you could spawn a new thread for each client... is there a
better way to do this?

::keith

In article <94uibd$t8c$1 at saltmine.radix.net>,
  cobrien at Radix.Net (Cary O'Brien) wrote:
> In article <94pn5h$t3e$1 at nntp6.u.washington.edu>,
> Donn Cave  <donn at u.washington.edu> wrote:
> >Quoth Keith Murphy <kpmurphy at my-deja.com>:
> >| ok here's what i understand.
>
> [snip discussion of socket programming approaches]
>
> >
> >To reiterate:  When the client dies, the connection will close.
> >When the connection has closed, recv() will return an empty string,
> >length == 0.
> >
>
> Depends on what you mean by dies.  If the process at the other end
> terminates and the operating system thereunder operates correctly,
> you're right, the TCP session will close and recv() will return
> an empty string.
>
> But if you're talking to a PC, and they just shut it off, or the DSL
> line goes down or someone picks up the phone on the modem line or
> something your end won't know that for a *LONG* time.  So your recv()
> may hang.
>
> Just thought I'd bring that up.
>
> [snip ditto]
>
> reliving-painfull-episodes-of-past-jobs-ly yours
>
>


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From yeahright at noway.com  Fri Jan 19 18:21:25 2001
From: yeahright at noway.com (Shannon Menkveld)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 23:21:25 GMT
Subject: Python GUI toolkits for BeOS
Message-ID: <VZ3a6.2229$3T2.70785@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>

I just got Python 1.5.2 for BeOS (R5 Pro).   know that TKinter has not been
ported to BeOS, so I was wondering what BeOS python programmers use for
writing GUI programs.

Thanks,
--Shannon




From lele at seldati.it  Mon Jan 15 09:30:01 2001
From: lele at seldati.it (Lele Gaifax)
Date: 15 Jan 2001 15:30:01 +0100
Subject: Python and ODBC?
References: <93tfo0$12p$1@ryu.it> <93upsf02pvl@news1.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <m3d7dolwgm.fsf@paci.nautilus>

>>>>> On Mon, 15 Jan 2001 13:17:30 +0100, "Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com> said:

    AM> If I had to avoid platform lock-ins, and still get
    AM> transactions and stored procedures (each of those being a real
    AM> 'must' for us), then, I dunno -- maybe Interbase, now
    AM> open-source, has those, but I don't really know much about it

Sure it has: I'm using Interbase (actually, Firebird), and there are
several modules that provide access to its APIs, and it should offer
an ODBC bridge too, but I never used it. I usually prefer a "native"
connection, and with IB I have it both on Widows (Delphi) and
everywhere with Python :)

bye, lele.
-- 
nickname: Lele Gaifax	| Quando vivro' di quello che ho pensato ieri
real: Emanuele Gaifas	| comincero' ad aver paura di chi mi copia.
email: lele at seldati.it	|		-- Fortunato Depero, 1929.



From danielk at aracnet.com  Thu Jan 11 22:40:19 2001
From: danielk at aracnet.com (Daniel Klein)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 19:40:19 -0800
Subject: Reflection: Calling Methods Dynamically by Name
References: <mailman.979232057.11594.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <o3vs5tcqq25i8f3jn84s73mj9c9csmuc88@4ax.com>

On Thu, 11 Jan 2001 11:53:27 -0500, Mike Fletcher <mfletch at tpresence.com>
wrote:

>And that's before you get into the "never use exec because it is the spawn
>of the devil" philosophy that I'm sure someone will spout at you...

Is that 'spawn' as in os.spawnv ? :^)


From wware at world.std.com  Sat Jan  6 10:41:58 2001
From: wware at world.std.com (Will Ware)
Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2001 15:41:58 GMT
Subject: new enum idiom
Message-ID: <G6qzLy.6Fo@world.std.com>

I stumbled upon a new idiom for enums (at least it's new to me) that
some folks might find helpful. The standard idiom is of course:

(FIRST, SECOND, THIRD) = range(3)

and I would have used this except that I had too many values to count
conveniently. Also I wanted to keep around string versions of the enum
names, for __repr__ purposes. So I hit upon this idiom:

class MidiEvent:

    typeNames = [
        "NOTE_ON", "NOTE_OFF", "POLYPHONIC_KEY_PRESSURE", "CONTROLLER_CHANGE",
        # dozens and dozens more...
        ]

    # build an enum, this is done once when the module is imported
    # locals() gives the namespace for this class, so they become
    # class attributes

    i = 0
    for t in typeNames:
        locals()[t] = i
        i = i + 1

    def __repr__(self):
        # here is where the string versions are used
        r = ("<MidiEvent %s blah blah blah" %
             (self.typeNames[self.type], blah, blah, blah))
        # other info
        return r + ">"
-- 
import string,time,os;print string.join((lambda x:x[:10]+x[8:])(map(
lambda x:string.center("*"*(lambda x:((x<24) ### Seasons Greetings, Will Ware
*(x-3))+3)(x),24),range(1,28, 2))),"\n") ################ wware at world.std.com


From xyzmats at laplaza.org  Fri Jan 19 10:27:31 2001
From: xyzmats at laplaza.org (Mats Wichmann)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 15:27:31 GMT
Subject: How to close all files between fork and exec?
References: <yv27l3upooj.fsf@lionsp093.lion-ag.de> <944o0k$pi0$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu> <87zogp7auu.fsf@erlenstar.demon.co.uk> <ylsnmg3hsg.fsf@windlord.stanford.edu>
Message-ID: <3a685cb4.7067302@news.laplaza.org>

On 18 Jan 2001 09:13:19 -0800, Russ Allbery <rra at stanford.edu> wrote:

>In comp.unix.programmer, Andrew Gierth <andrew at erlenstar.demon.co.uk> writes:
>>>>>>> "Donn" == Donn Cave <donn at u.washington.edu> writes:
>
>>  Donn> Unfortunately it looks to me like no one has ever put
>>  Donn> getdtablesize() in Python.
>
>> does it have sysconf(_SC_OPEN_MAX)?
>
>BTW, in the pointless portability department, getrlimit returns more
>accurate results than sysconf on some patched Linux kernels (INN therefore
>tries getrlimit first).

There's a chance this could be context-dependent:  sysconf returns
whatever system limit is present from the start, getrlimit responds
with what is available to this process - the answer you're likely to
want (somebody else may have lowered the limits for your process). 

Python has a resource module which implements getrlimit....


Mats Wichmann

(Anti-spam stuff: to reply remove the "xyz" from the
address xyzmats at laplaza.org. Not that it helps much...)


From ralf.claus at t-online.de  Tue Jan  9 02:01:09 2001
From: ralf.claus at t-online.de (Ralf Claus)
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 08:01:09 +0100
Subject: dns reverse look up with python ?
Message-ID: <93ecvp$v21$02$1@news.t-online.com>

Hi,
any suggestion about this theme ?
Is there a way for me (newbie) ?

thanks for any suggestion

Ralf




From m.faassen at vet.uu.nl  Sat Jan 13 16:37:01 2001
From: m.faassen at vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen)
Date: 13 Jan 2001 21:37:01 GMT
Subject: Web devel with python. Whats the best route?
References: <93plkv$c4e$4@newshost.accu.uu.nl> <93pii2$c4c$2@newshost.accu.uu.nl> <mailman.979331115.13089.python-list@python.org> <mailman.979391354.21685.python-list@python.org> <mailman.979406475.31968.python-list@python.org> <87d7drmilw.fsf@lisboa.ifm.uni-kiel.de>
Message-ID: <93qhpt$igq$1@newshost.accu.uu.nl>

Janko Hauser <jhauser at ifm.uni-kiel.de> wrote:
> Just to help, I have also seen the broken messages coming from my news
> server. And thanks Moshe, that you include the full stuff in your
> replies, so I can follow in both mysterious and plain style.

Weird, I don't see any full stuff in Moshe's


From db3l at fitlinxx.com  Mon Jan 22 19:51:28 2001
From: db3l at fitlinxx.com (David Bolen)
Date: 22 Jan 2001 19:51:28 -0500
Subject: Documentation for using python mode in emacs
References: <j04b6.7869$QM2.613926@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <uu26r146n.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com>

"Benjamin Derstine" <bend at ecollege.com> writes:

> Is there any documentation for using python mode in emacs? I've looked the
> python.org website over and there is lots of info on how to install it and
> configure it but no info on how to use it.  Are you supposed to be a pyschic
> genius and just know?

Yes, being a psychic genius is always helpful :-)

Actually, any well-written Python mode knows how to self-describe
itself.  The command "describe-mode" (C-c ? typically) will describe
your current major mode.  So just switch into Python mode (either by
editing a .py file, or using the "python-mode" command) and then read
the description.

--
-- David
-- 
/-----------------------------------------------------------------------\
 \               David Bolen            \   E-mail: db3l at fitlinxx.com  /
  |             FitLinxx, Inc.            \  Phone: (203) 708-5192    |
 /  860 Canal Street, Stamford, CT  06902   \  Fax: (203) 316-5150     \
\-----------------------------------------------------------------------/


From mal at lemburg.com  Thu Jan 25 05:34:38 2001
From: mal at lemburg.com (M.-A. Lemburg)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 11:34:38 +0100
Subject: I mean *setup.py* ! ... (more questions)[Re: libraries=['m'] 
 inconfig.py [Re: Python 2.1 alpha 1 released!]]
References: <mailman.980277285.14781.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3A70013E.B1389141@lemburg.com>

"Steven D. Majewski" wrote:
> 
> ** I meant setup.py, not config.py! **
> 
> OK -- same sort of problem building readline.so :
>  setup.py wants to include -ltermcap
> 
> I was willing to write the other one off as a MacOSX oddity that
> nobody on python-dev was likely to know about, but -ltermcap is
> likely to be a problem on other systems too!
>
> So that makes me think I'm missing some obvious way of overriding
> these switches. Are there any docs or tips on this new setup
> method ?  Am I just supposed to edit the source of setup.py, or
> is it generated from some template ?

Please post these suggestions on the Python bugs listm, Python-Dev
or Andrew Kuchling who wrote the setup.py script -- the
distutils approach to auto-configuring Python's builtin modules
is very new and still needs some refinements.
 
> -- Steve Majewski
> 
> On Tue, 23 Jan 2001, Steven D. Majewski wrote:
> 
> >
> >
> > Is there a simple way (other than editing config.py) to remove the
> > effect of all of the "libraries=['m']" options from config.py ?
> >
> > This breaks the MacOSX build as there's no libm -- that functionality
> > is build into the System.framework .
> >
> > Shouldn't these type of flags be acquired from configure or the
> > make environment somehow ?
> >

-- 
Marc-Andre Lemburg
______________________________________________________________________
Company:                                        http://www.egenix.com/
Consulting:                                    http://www.lemburg.com/
Python Pages:                           http://www.lemburg.com/python/



From trclark at home.com  Fri Jan 12 19:41:53 2001
From: trclark at home.com (TC)
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 00:41:53 GMT
Subject: config for Python as the IIS hosted ASP script Lang
Message-ID: <lvN76.998430$8u4.20950501@news1.rdc1.bc.home.com>

Hi ALL
Yeb newbie,
Install BEOPen v2.0 on NT4.0
got *.py to run as IIS CGI's
searched the FAQ's http://www.python.org/doc/FAQ.html
BUT I can't see how to config iis to run Python as a script lang on an asp
page
like
<%@ Language=Python %>
<%
import cgl
cgi.test()
%>

What is the secret ??
I thought that the BEOpen WIN32 install would have done the
registry magic




From SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk  Thu Jan 11 07:55:07 2001
From: SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk (Simon Brunning)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 12:55:07 -0000
Subject: mxTools (was Re: why no "do : until"?)
Message-ID: <31575A892FF6D1118F5800600846864D5B16D8@intrepid>

> From:	M.-A. Lemburg [SMTP:mal at lemburg.com]
> > As far as I can see, mxDateTime doesn't have restrictions in its license
> -
> > it's mxODBC which does.
> > 
> > Is this right, Marc?
> 
> Right.
> 
> But please note that I wouldn't really want mxDateTime to go into
> the core: the reason is that the mx Extensions will soon be available
> as three packages under a new top-level package name "mx" -- I wouldn't
> want to rip mxDateTime out of that context.
 
Fair enough. (Which are the other two packages going into your forthcoming
'mx' package, and which are staying separate? And why 'mx', anyway? I've
always wanted to know that...)
 
> BTW, mxODBC v2.0 will then no longer be free for commercial use. I put
> a moderate license fee on it to at least produce some funding for mxODBC
> and the other mx Extensions  -- the old mxODBC license just didn't
> work out, so I had to take this step.
 
When is this going to happen, and how much is it going to cost? (You have
*no* *idea* how long it takes to get a purchase request through my
organisation!)
 
> mxODBC will still remain free for non-commercial use, e.g. for personal
> and non-profit organizations, and as before you get full source code
> with it, so you still have all the advantages of being able to adapt
> the code to your needs.
 
So I can play with it at home, but I have to pay for it if I use it for
work. Sounds fair enough.
	 
Cheers,
Simon Brunning
TriSystems Ltd.
sbrunning at trisystems.co.uk




-----------------------------------------------------------------------
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It is intended solely for the addressee. Access to this email by anyone else
is unauthorised. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure,
copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in
reliance on it, is prohibited and may be unlawful. TriSystems Ltd. cannot
accept liability for statements made which are clearly the senders own.



From zeitlin at seth.lpthe.jussieu.fr  Fri Jan 26 14:57:21 2001
From: zeitlin at seth.lpthe.jussieu.fr (Vadim Zeitlin)
Date: 26 Jan 2001 19:57:21 GMT
Subject: Tkinter vs wxPython: your opinions?
References: <3A6F899F.E164F628@home.com> <94qeme$ep4$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <slrn973lih.a2u.zeitlin@seth.lpthe.jussieu.fr>

On Fri, 26 Jan 2001 00:00:18 GMT, Greg Landrum <glandrum at my-deja.com> wrote:
>Tkinter has the canvas.

 I don't know when will this be supported by wxPython, but wxWindows now has a
(still experimental) wxCanvas class which is meant to provide much the same
functionality. You can build its demo (in C++) if you get the wxWindows
sources from the cvs.

>so it's fairly easy to avoid problems.  That said, to the best of my
>knowledge, there is still no Mac version of the more recent versions
>of wxwindows.

 There is. It is officially in beta and I've never used it myself so I can't
really comment on it, but people found it mostly usable. The worst I heard
about wxMac port was that its existence was not widely known.

 Regards,
VZ

-- 
GCS/GM d? H+ s++:-- p2 au--- a- w+ v C+++ UBLS+++ P- L++ N++ E--- W++++ M? V--
-po+ R++ G`` !tv b+++ D--- e++++ u++ h--- f+ r++ n- y?


From thomas at cintra.no  Fri Jan 19 06:18:37 2001
From: thomas at cintra.no (Thomas Weholt)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 12:18:37 +0100
Subject: Skip paths when using zipfile-module
Message-ID: <hoV96.10874$wt2.124708@news1.oke.nextra.no>

Hi,

Just started using the zipfile-module in Python 2.0 and it works great, but
I need to skip the path info. I want to create an archive with just the
files in them, stored without paths. Didn't see any options/info about this
in the docs. Any clues ?

Thomas




From sholden at holdenweb.com  Thu Jan 11 07:42:34 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 07:42:34 -0500
Subject: Speed of Python vs. Perl
References: <mailman.979205181.25734.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <BUh76.10203$X3.65817@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>

"Tim Peters" <tim.one at home.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.979205181.25734.python-list at python.org...
> [Michael P. Soulier]
> >> [msoulier at lupus test]$ time ./bench.pl
> >>
> >> real    0m2.006s
> >> user    0m1.950s
> >> sys     0m0.030s
> >>
> >> [msoulier at lupus test]$ time ./bench.py
> >>
> >> real    0m0.558s
> >> user    0m0.440s
> >> sys     0m0.050s
>
> [Tim Hammerquist]
> > How much of these times is the startup time for the interpreters?
> > Python has a profiler, and the Standard Perl Dist. includes the
> > Benchmark module for this purpose.  This would give you a more accurate
> > picture of where the processor spends its time.
>
> Python generally suffers much larger startup time than Perl.  Indeed, on
my
> box, I can clearly see the difference between:
>
> python -c "print 'hi'"
>
> and
>
> perl -e "print 'hi'"
>
> by eyeball (the former takes a noticeable fraction of a second; the latter
> appears instantaneous).  The reasons for Python's relative startup sloth
> have been discussed here often; a big one is that Python runs around
looking
> for Python files (like site.py and sitecustomize.py) at startup, and
> typically does a big pile of failing fstats while failing to find those
> files along the PYTHONPATH.
>
> Despite that, Python is typically faster overall for me than is Perl.
Then
> again, the things I typically do may not be typical ...
>
> has-trouble-spelling-"web"-let-along-programming-it-ly y'rs  - tim
>

Would it be worth putting an optimization in so that the required paths,
etc., were pre-computed (for those who had specifically asked for such a
step)?

I can see the kinds of trouble this would lead to (same as needing to
"rehash" in some shells when new code was added to existring paths), but I
don't have any feel for how much of the startup overhead could be
precomputed.

and-don't-do-it-if-it-stops-you-from-implementing-nested-scopes-ly y'rs  -
steve




From python at commandprompt.com  Fri Jan 26 16:18:24 2001
From: python at commandprompt.com (python at commandprompt.com)
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 13:18:24 -0800
Subject: OT: OpenDocs looking for Python authors
Message-ID: <20010126131824.A25354@crazypenguins.commandprompt.com>

Hello,

OpenDocs Publishing: http://www.opendocspublishing.com is looking for a
couple of authors to help in the creation of a Python book. First time
authors are welcome.

Please contact books at opendocspublishing.com if you are interested.

Joshua Drake



From david34 at mdx.ac.uk  Tue Jan 16 09:36:43 2001
From: david34 at mdx.ac.uk (DAVID FARRAR)
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 14:36:43 +0000
Subject: Stupid Newbie
Message-ID: <3A645C7B.248902E4@mdx.ac.uk>

Hi, I must be stupid.

I am using WinNT at work (without administrator's rights) and having
trouble making Python 2.0 work. It seems to work fine in the interactive
command line format, but I cannot run any module files.  The readme file
suggests that no extra configuration is necessary with WinNT.. .is this
true?

I am using Notepad to write modules, and python.exe to run them (I also
have a file called Pythonw.exe, but this does not seem to do anything.)

An example which does not work is as follows:
import sys
print sys.argv

To run this file (spam.py), I type:
python spam.py a b c

I get following message:
File "<stdin>", line 1
python spam.py a b c
SyntaxError: Invalid syntax

Any ideas??

Ta,
Dave




From fredrik at effbot.org  Thu Jan 11 13:53:39 2001
From: fredrik at effbot.org (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 18:53:39 GMT
Subject: using IE5 HTML DOM parser in python ?
References: <93kpp4$51p$1@reader1.imaginet.fr>
Message-ID: <Tin76.5523$Qb7.770858@newsb.telia.net>

Gilles Lenfant wrote:
> PS. Please don't reply "make politically correct HTML and it'll work" ! I
> agree but I don't lpan to parse HTML documents built by myself.

Well, you don't have to fix them yourself, of course:

    http://www.w3.org/People/Raggett/tidy/

Something like this should do the trick (on any platform):

    file = os.popen("tidy -asxml %s" % myfile)
    myparser.parse(file)

Cheers /F




From dsh8290 at rit.edu  Fri Jan 26 13:24:36 2001
From: dsh8290 at rit.edu (D-Man)
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 13:24:36 -0500
Subject: Python vs Ruby
In-Reply-To: <p6qu26mtesx.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>; from loewis@informatik.hu-berlin.de on Fri, Jan 26, 2001 at 06:15:58PM +0100
References: <94mdkd$222e$1@news.adamastor.ac.za> <p6qwvbjtr97.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de> <94pvd8$3g$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <p6qu26mtesx.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <20010126132436.A7309@harmony.cs.rit.edu>

On Fri, Jan 26, 2001 at 06:15:58PM +0100, Martin von Loewis wrote:
| Greg Jorgensen <gregj at pobox.com> writes:
| 
| > According to the article below, Ruby uses a mark-and-sweep garbage
| > collector. I don't know if that is more "real" than reference counting
| > or not. 
| 
| I would certainly count mark-and-sweep as more real than reference

Of course.  Mark-and-sweep is an algorithm for Garbage Collection and
Reference Counting isn't garbage collections.  Both gc and ref
counting are forms of /Automatic Memory Management/.

I think this is where the arguments/disagreements are coming from.
Some people don't realize the difference between Automatic Memory
Management in general and the specific forms of it (namely gc).
Python doesn't do gc.

| counting; since m&s finds garbage that reference counting doesn't
| (cycles in particular). My point was that Python 2.0 does not use
| reference counting alone - it also uses an additional garbage
| collector (a generational one, of some mark-and-sweep form) to find
| cycles.

The new "gc" module doens't even do real gc.  It simply checks
for circular references in a similar manner that mark-and-sweep
collectors use.

| 
| Regards,
| Martin
| -- 

I'm not indicating here whether gc or ref counting is better, just
trying to clear the confusion with terminology.

C even has a mark-and-sweep garbage collector that works as a plug-in
replacement for malloc/free.  If you tailor your code to the collector
you can greatly improve it's performance too.  (the collector is
implemented as a library by Hans Boehm, you can find info on it in
Yahoo if you are interested)

-D




From codebert9 at users.sourceforge.net  Tue Jan  2 01:55:52 2001
From: codebert9 at users.sourceforge.net (Jeffrey Drake)
Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2001 06:55:52 GMT
Subject: OpenGL/GLUT in python
Message-ID: <YXe46.16112$n%.820781@news20.bellglobal.com>

Is there any sites that are specifically focused on this topic? I am looking
mainly for tutorial sites.

Thanx in advanced,
Jeffrey Drake




From cpsoct at my-deja.com  Sun Jan 21 04:29:59 2001
From: cpsoct at my-deja.com (cpsoct at my-deja.com)
Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 09:29:59 GMT
Subject: how to test for nesting inlist
References: <94bhte$4iv$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <94bvgu0kt4@news2.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <94ea6k$4uc$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

Thanks. and here i get a chance to learn something
recursion hurts my brain. map does everything but make coffee
doesn't it. It is amazing to me how many places map and filter
show up. i used map with None to lace lists last night. amazing
the things you can do in python.....

Thanks again


In article <94bvgu0kt4 at news2.newsguy.com>,
  "Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote:
> <cpsoct at my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:94bhte$4iv$1 at nnrp1.deja.com...
> > Is there a way to test if a list in nested and if so how deep? so
that
> > you could type
> >
> > y=[1,2,3]
> > x=[1,[2,3]]
> >
> > howDeep(y)
> > howDeep(x)
> >
> > and it would return 0 (no nesting) for y and 1, for x (1 level of
> > nesting)
> >
> > Is this possible? It would seem really useful, but i don't see
anything
> > in the docs about how to do this.
>
> It's not a built-in (because its usefulness is not perceived as all
> that big...), but it's easy to code it yourself.  Assuming you only
> care about lists and not tuples or other forms of 'nesting', e.g.:
>
> def howDeep(x):
>     if type(x)!=type([]):
>         return 0
>     return 1+reduce(max,map(howDeep,x),0)
>
> Note that this returns 0 for a non-list, 1 for a list not containing
> any other lists, etc; this seems more natural to me than what
> you requested!  Just change both occurrence of 0 into -1 to
> get exactly your specs.
>
> Of course, either or both of the recursion and the 'functional'
> approach can be removed if one so wishes, but I think this is
> the simplest approach to such a typical functional-programming
> question:-).
>
> Alex
>
>


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From mal at lemburg.com  Thu Jan 25 08:08:32 2001
From: mal at lemburg.com (M.-A. Lemburg)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 14:08:32 +0100
Subject: Unicode string output
References: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0101251214170.27144-100000@calcifer.valdyas.org>
Message-ID: <3A702550.AEE6BE6E@lemburg.com>

Boudewijn Rempt wrote:
> 
> On Thu, 25 Jan 2001, M.-A. Lemburg wrote:
> 
> >
> > Why would you want to set the encoding on a per application
> > basis, BTW ?
> >
> 
> Because some applications work with Unicode, others with latin-1,
> and others again with sjis, for instance. I don't want to have
> to explicitly select an encoding throughout the whole application,
> that just opens up more possibilities for bugs. I might want Zope
> to use a default of latin-1 (perhaps - I don't know much about
> Zope), but Kura needs utf-8.
> 
> Another thing with a system-wide standard is the different
> preferences of users. I need Unicode and Latin-1, but my wife,
> who uses the same machine needs latin-1 and koi-8.

Well, you can manage multi-user settings easily by providing
a special sitecustomize.py module, so I guess that's a non-issue.

The problem with having a per application setting for the
default encoding is that this would cause code to be written which
may rely on one specific default encoding. It is much better
to write such assumption into the code itself than to rely on
default settings.

I agree though, that we will need to put some more work into
making streams and other interfaces more Unicode aware and to
simplify those interfaces. In theory you could e.g. redirect
stdin and stdout through codecs, but in practice this currently
doesn't work well together with "print" due to the complicated
machinery in the Python interpreter.

The same goes for making the Python standard lib more Unicode
aware. There's still a lot to do ... we could need some sponsors :)

-- 
Marc-Andre Lemburg
______________________________________________________________________
Company:                                        http://www.egenix.com/
Consulting:                                    http://www.lemburg.com/
Python Pages:                           http://www.lemburg.com/python/



From b012414 at mail.dvz.fh-koeln.de  Tue Jan  9 14:19:16 2001
From: b012414 at mail.dvz.fh-koeln.de (Stephan Effelsberg)
Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2001 20:19:16 +0100
Subject: Problem with __del__
Message-ID: <3A5B6434.2BD6FEF6@mail.dvz.fh-koeln.de>

I have the following code:

def dosomething():
  print "doing something"

class Nothing:
  def __init__(self, name):
    self.name=name
  def __del__(self):
    print self.name, dosomething
    dosomething()

cl=Nothing("cl")
nothing=Nothing("nothing")
cla=Nothing("cla")
cl2=Nothing("cl2")


When running this (Python 1.5.2 on Win95) I get the following output:

cl2 <function dosomething at 8a7c90>
doing something
cla <function dosomething at 8a7c90>
doing something
cl <function dosomething at 8a7c90>
doing something
nothing None
Exception exceptions.TypeError: 'call of non-function (type None)' in
<method Nothing.__del__ of Nothing instance at 8a7f60> ignored

Everything works properly except for 'nothing'.
Now I swapped the lines for instanciating 'cl' and 'nothing' with the
following result:

cl2 <function dosomething at 8a7c90>
doing something
cla <function dosomething at 8a7c90>
doing something
nothing None
Exception exceptions.TypeError: 'call of non-function (type None)' in
<method Nothing.__del__ of Nothing instance at 8a7ee0> ignored
cl None
Exception exceptions.TypeError: 'call of non-function (type None)' in
<method Nothing.__del__ of Nothing instance at 8a7f60> ignored

Now it seems that both 'nothing' and 'cl' aren't able to see the
function dosomething().

Can somebody explain this phenomenon?
Is it a special bug of my specific Python distribution?




From j.spies at hccnet.nl  Thu Jan  4 18:42:02 2001
From: j.spies at hccnet.nl (Jaap Spies)
Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 00:42:02 +0100
Subject: why no "do : until"?
References: <92jj3j$ff7$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <slrn94shbe.150.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <X8s36.2731$Qb7.305339@newsb.telia.net> <slrn94smds.150.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <FOt36.17$vd1.2224@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com> <slrn94t1vj.150.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <3A4E95FD.D6C737A7@engcorp.com> <slrn94tqkh.150.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <tpr46.7782$4c.597534@ruti.visi.com> <slrn954h6p.rgv.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <3A52AD6A.62D043A2@engcorp.com> <3A534367.36B1FD18@uswest.net> <slrn957j19.go.amk@207-172-36-81.s81.tnt6.ann.va.dialup.rcn.com> <3A53F4B1.6227D241@uswest.net> <931gf302dsi@news2.newsguy.com> <932d0k$ita$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu> <slrn95a2u4.hp.amk@207-172-36-136.s136.tnt6.ann.va.dialup.rcn.com>
Message-ID: <3A550A4A.9040605@hccnet.nl>

A.M. Kuchling wrote:

> On 4 Jan 2001 17:48:04 GMT, Donn Cave <donn at u.washington.edu> wrote:
> 
>> ... hardly a
>> day will pass when there isn't someone isn't pushing another syntactic
>> change to the language, but none of it is going anywhere.
> 
> 
> Yes.  I've argued in the past that we should just leave Python's
> syntax alone; all the proposed changes usually add 1% more
> functionality and aren't worth the pain.  Leave fancy changes to the
> hypothetical Python3K or some other future descendent of Python, and
> just work on the infrastructure around the language.
> 
> --amk

Whow, I agree!

Jaap Spies



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Tue Jan 23 07:22:53 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 13:22:53 +0100
Subject: COM in Python?
References: <pzdb6.718$6a.35017@news.siol.net>
Message-ID: <94jt2o01ffs@news1.newsguy.com>

"Mitja Semolic" <mitjase at hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:pzdb6.718$6a.35017 at news.siol.net...
> Is there a way to use COM objects in python?

Oh yes -- on Win32 platforms, the win32com package (part of the
win32all extensions, which you can download from ActiveState, or
get already-added to the Active Python build again from the
ActiveState site) offers excellent ways to "talk COM", examples,
etc (get O'Reilly's published book by Hammond and Robinson for
very complete documentation of the Win32 Python API extensions).

COM is THE key way to talk with the system, all sorts of already
installed applications, separate components, etc, etc, in today's
Windows environments.  Python plays *very well* in that arena;
being a Python fan and working in Win32 environments exclusively,
COM is what I use day-in, day-out.


But not all is lost for cross-platform development, either...:

On all platforms, there is some (early) support for XPCOM; this,
too, is an ActiveState project (you'll need to build Mozilla 6
from sources first, then add in the ActiveState stuff, etc; not
a lightweight project, but worth doing if you need to be
cross-platform but with COM-like functionality!).


Alex





From farmerk at pacbell.net  Mon Jan  8 23:00:59 2001
From: farmerk at pacbell.net (Keith Farmer)
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 20:00:59 -0800
Subject: Python, ADO, VC++ 6
References: <R%966.323$l71.150865@news.pacbell.net> <93bcbj$lfl$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <Y1w66.177$w7.162743@news.pacbell.net>

As described below, the problem seems to have been located.  I have since
changed the relevant code to:

 _bstr_t sql("select count(*) as cnt from ");

 char *table;
 if (!PyArg_ParseTuple(args, "s", &table))
  return NULL;

 sql += table;

 HRESULT   hr  = S_OK;
 _RecordsetPtr Rs1  = NULL;

 _bstr_t Connect("DSN=Astronomy");
 _bstr_t Source(sql);


... I can't seem to access the (traditional) string class, even when
importing <string.h>, which does exist and which VC++ can locate.  I don't
know why this is.  In any case, this code now works and I should be able to
use the _bstr_t objects just fine for what I need them to do.

If anyone has further insights on this, I'd appreciate the clue.  In
particular, I'm wondering what holes I'm leaving open for memory leaks?

Thanks -- Keith

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Beat Bolli (dware) [mailto:beat.bolli at dware.ch]
> Sent: Friday 08 December 2000 07:37
> To: Keith Farmer
> Subject: Re: Python, ADO, VC++ 6
>
>
> [Sorry, was not able to post to the newsgroup, maybe you could
> post this reply for others to read?]
>
>
> > static PyObject *AstroMath_countRows(PyObject *self, PyObject *args)
> > /* ADO example to pass whole SQL clause */
> > {
> >
> > long cnt; /* Define return variable */
> >
> > char *table;
> > if (!PyArg_ParseTuple(args, "s", &table))
> > return NULL;
> >
> > HRESULT hr = S_OK;
> > _RecordsetPtr Rs1 = NULL;
> >
> > _bstr_t Connect("DSN=Astronomy");
> > _bstr_t Source(strcat("select count(*) as cnt from ", table));
>
> You'd have to use something different than strcat here, since in
> overwrites
> whatever lies "after" (at the next higher memory address) the constant
> string "select ...".
>
> #include <string>
>
> ...
>
> string source = "select count(*) as cnt from ";
> source += table;
> _bstr_t Source(source);
>
> or something along these lines... (I'm not up to speed when it
> comes to all
> this OLE stuff... ;-)
>

[snip my included code]

> Beat Bolli
> --
> dware design & software GmbH
> Mattenstrasse 11, CH-2555 Br?gg b. Biel
> Telefon: +41 (32) 374 27 00, Telefax: +41 (32) 374 27 01
> E-Mail: beat.bolli at dware.ch
>
>
>
>
>




From m.bless at gmx.de  Tue Jan 30 16:39:31 2001
From: m.bless at gmx.de (Martin Bless)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 21:39:31 GMT
Subject: How to extend sys.path on Win9x permanently?
References: <3a75ef9c.11194652@news.muenster.de> <3A7671A2.30478E8C@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <3a7831e4.37371259@news.muenster.de>

On Tue, 30 Jan 2001 02:47:46 -0500, Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com>
wrote:

>create a file in your Python directory with an extension .PTH,
>and place within it the name of the directory you want added
>to sys.path.

Wow, that's the solution I dreamed of. Works wonderful. And with
PythonWin too.

My lib ist now 
>>>c:\programme\python20\mblib
And
>>>c:\programme\python20\mblibs.pth
simply contains one line with five letters:
>>>mblib

Site.py is very helpful too. What is unclear to me: As far as I
understand site.py, a ...\mblib\more.pth  should be processed als
well. I made some quick checks, but it didn't work.
Have I got it wrong?

Martin

PS:
>Doesn't your Windows support adding lines to config.sys, such as:
>   shell=c:\command.com /p /e:4096
>which would extend environment space to 4K?

It probably does. But I'm afraid, this kind of changes is cumbersome
and leads into trouble somewhere else ...



From erno-news at erno.iki.fi  Sat Jan 20 02:05:23 2001
From: erno-news at erno.iki.fi (Erno Kuusela)
Date: 20 Jan 2001 09:05:23 +0200
Subject: Translating a Perl script into Python
References: <vo9i6t04nhurgv2avmgoss4mg86ofcuhtv@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <kug0ied7po.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>

In article <vo9i6t04nhurgv2avmgoss4mg86ofcuhtv at 4ax.com>, Sheila King
<sheila at thinkspot.net> writes:

| Here is my Python translation:
| ------------------------------------------------------------
| #! /big/dom/xthinkspot/Python-2.0/python

| import sys, os, commands

| slurp = sys.stdin.read()
| qmail = ["SENDER", "NEWSENDER", "RECIPIENT", "USER", "HOME", "HOST", "LOCAL",
| "EXT", "EXT2", "EXT3", "EXT4", "DTLINE", "RPLINE", "UFLINE"]
| try:
| 	PROC = open("proc.test","w")
| except:

it's usually a bad idea to have a blanket "except:" statement,
because it might mask other errors in your code.
in this case i'd use
  except (IOError, OSError), why:
        sys.exit('Couldn't write file: %s' % why)

sys.exit(), if supplied with a string, will print it to
stderr and exit with status 1.

| 	sys.stderr << "Couldn't open file for write\n"

fileobj << text doesn't work (python is not c++).

| 	raise

this will dump the traceback to the console in the event of an
error, it is probably not useful since you have reported the error
already.

| id = commands.getoutput("/usr/bin/id")
| PROC.write("ID: "+id+"\n\n")
| PROC.write("Environment Variables\n")
| for key in qmail:
| 	PROC.write(key + " = " + os.environ[key] + "\n")

you can use the .get method of dictionaries if you want to supply
a default value in case the key is not found. you might want
to use it here (or you might not). it would be something like
os.environ.get(key, '(not set)')

| PROC.write("\nSlurp\n")
| for line in slurp:
| 	PROC.write(line)

line is a single string, not a list of lines since you used
read() and not readlines(). this loop will work, but it will
do the loop one character at a time which might be a bit slow.
you could do PROC.write(slurp).

| PROC.close()
| ------------------------------------------------------------

   -- erno


From mspiggie at my-deja.com  Tue Jan 23 07:56:19 2001
From: mspiggie at my-deja.com (mspiggie at my-deja.com)
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 12:56:19 GMT
Subject: what do do with your Useless Python
Message-ID: <94jv1h$lsb$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

Recently, the Python Tutor email list began unofficially collecting
tidbits of source code that will not change the world.  It has become
the Useless Python archive, where people can informally open their
Python source in cases where SourceForge isn't quite merited.

An interesting side project associated with it is that some of the
Python Tutor people also decided to try writing Python solutions to the
ACM INTERNATIONAL COLLEGIATE PROGRAMMING CONTEST problems.  There are
far too many programming problems there for just the members of the
Tutor list, so if anyone would like to help whittle down a few, you
would be more than welcome to lend a hand.  And if you care to
contribute a few non-mission-critical scripts to the collection, you can
be assured that they will be used by some Python newbies to learn the
language.  We hope to have an automated submission process in place
soon.

The URL for Useless Python is:
http://www.lowerstandard.com/python/pythonsource.html

It's mostly harmless, and gives you a chance to throw away that
throw-away code.

<It-might-just-be-fun-ly-yours>
Rob Andrews


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From bvdpoel at uniserve.com  Mon Jan  1 23:04:43 2001
From: bvdpoel at uniserve.com (Bob van der Poel)
Date: Mon, 01 Jan 2001 21:04:43 -0700
Subject: module question
References: <3A5118AB.BDE840D5@uniserve.com> <92rb6m$92$1@panix2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <3A51535B.993A7952@uniserve.com>

> >Now, to complicate my understanding even more...if I declare a variable
> >in the 'main' module or program how do I access it from imported modules?
> >For example, I might have something like:
> >
> >       versionNumber = 1.4
> >
> >in the mainline. Now, a module (and I guess it might be deeply
> >nested), wants to find out what version is running. I just tried a
> >few variations of 'global', but nothing seems to work. Passing this
> >variable around to everyone who might need it gets real old, real
> >fast...so I'm thinking I'm not understanding something!
> 
> Ordinarily I'd recommend against this, but this seems like it might be
> an appropriate use.  In your edit module, do this:
> 
> import __main__
> print __main__.versionNumber

Yes, just after I posted this note I realized (remembered) the thing
about __main__. But it is ugly!

> OTOH, that's such a horrid kludge that what you *really* should do is
> have a config module of some sort where you store the version number and
> import *that* into all your modules (including main).

Ahh, yes. Perfect. One of these days I'll start to think in Python
instead of assembler.

Thanks.

-- 
Bob van der Poel ** Wynndel, British Columbia, CANADA **
EMAIL: bvdpoel at uniserve.com
WWW:   http://users.uniserve.com/~bvdpoel




From uche at ogbuji.net  Sun Jan 28 11:04:18 2001
From: uche at ogbuji.net (Uche Ogbuji)
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 16:04:18 GMT
Subject: pyXML support for XSL tranformations??
References: <rtga6.18098$bb.708443@news1.rdc1.tx.home.com> <94d1tj$6sa$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <3a6aef10.3738521@nntp.sprynet.com> <3A7232DB.C576B547@ogbuji.net> <94vg3k$ed9$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <3A7442FF.E1CFDF6D@ogbuji.net>

"David C. Ullrich" wrote:

> Once I got it working it went right onto my I-don't-see-
> how-you-guys-can-give-this-stuff-away list, btw - hope
> you don't have the idea I've been wanting my money
> back or anything.

No, I just wanted to have things clear on the thread because there *was*
a time when installing 4Suite was a huge pain, and I'd like all to know
we've worked very hard to make it a breeze (with some help from Greg
Ward and distutils).

> > There is no
> > reason why you can't download 4Suite-0.10.1.tar.gz, untar it, run
> > "python setup.py install", and be completely ready to go.
> 
> You only think that because you're not stupid enough to find
> ways to screw it up...

Well, we'd actually like 4Suite to be easy to install even for
non-Pythoneers.  That's because some of the features are completely
unique in XML space, and we think we can actually draw some XML users to
Python if they don't have to work too hard to get started.  That's why
we put together the HOWTOs which even walk you though installing Python.

> > But just in case, there are a 4Suite Installation HOWTOs for UNIX and
> > Windows.
> >
> > See
> >
> > http://services.4Suite.org/topics/rdf/Top/Documentation/HOWTOs


-- 
Uche Ogbuji
Personal:   uche at ogbuji.net		http://uche.ogbuji.net
Work:       uche.ogbuji at fourthought.com	http://Fourthought.com


From bww00 at amdahl.com  Wed Jan 17 09:32:21 2001
From: bww00 at amdahl.com (Bryan Webb)
Date: 17 Jan 2001 14:32:21 GMT
Subject: help with code for combinations/permutations
Message-ID: <944adl$2bf@dispatch.concentric.net>

HI,
    I have a list with 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16 in it,
I need to come up with all possible combinations of the numbers in the above
list ie. 1 +2, 1+2+3, 1+2+3+4, 1+2+3+4+5 and so on.
 I will have multiple lists to deal with, larger and smaller.
Any help or ideas will be appreciated

Thanks
Bryan Webb




From echuck at mindspring.com  Sun Jan 28 00:22:48 2001
From: echuck at mindspring.com (echuck at mindspring.com)
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 05:22:48 GMT
Subject: marshal doesn't work with "file-like" objects
References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010126135016.029c4d90@mail.mindspring.com> <mailman.980540325.4462.python-list@python.org> <94t1bi$m73$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <mailman.980557896.25345.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <950ab5$2h2$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

In article <mailman.980557896.25345.python-list at python.org>,
  Neil Schemenauer <nas at arctrix.com> wrote:
> Won't cPickle work?
>
>   Neil

Yes, but:

1. My benchmarks (which I don't have anymore) showed marshal to be MUCH
faster than cPickle
2. I'm serializing dictionaries that contain strings and numbers, e.g.,
I don't need any features that pickle has over marshal
3. I'm trying to keep overhead down as much as possible.


Thanks for the thought,
-Chuck


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From peter at engcorp.com  Wed Jan 24 00:40:46 2001
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 00:40:46 -0500
Subject: If I was recruiting Python people were is the best place to go
References: <94kvqa0g4t@enews2.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <3A6E6ADE.88FA5B6@engcorp.com>

Rick Amores wrote:
> 
> Be nice

I can't answer that directly, but my "stock" answer is 
that you really shouldn't waste your time trying to hire 
"Python people", when you could be investing your valuable
energy in hiring excellent programmers who would be
able to *learn* Python in very short order and be productive
quite quickly.  Chances are you'll end up with a better
"Python person" at the end of a week than if you were to
hire people just because they already knew Python.

Python is, by design and evolution, an exceptionally 
easy to learn and use language.  I have hired over ten
people in the last year, not because of their Python
experience (I believe none had any knowledge even of
its existence) but because of their programming 
experience in other areas, and general ability.  As
far as I can tell, none has taken longer than two
working weeks to become as comfortable with Python
as they were with whatever language they had 
previously considered their primary one.  The code
produced is readable, and maintainable (helped along
by a simple coding standard), and pretty much 
works a darn sight more reliably than what I believe
would have been produced with most other languages,
including the current favourites.

So to revisit your question: look around you.  If
you have people already working for you, that's 
a good place to start.  If you're starting from
scratch, don't limit yourself to people who've
heard of Python, just go for real, all-round talent.

If there is a silver bullet, I say it has the 
name Python written on it...


From flognat at flognat.myip.org  Thu Jan 18 09:34:43 2001
From: flognat at flognat.myip.org (Andrew Markebo)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 14:34:43 GMT
Subject: Curses module for Python 2.0 for Windows NT
References: <mailman.979719258.23519.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m33dehvsho.fsf@master.athome>

Hmm download the pdcurses binaries for your compiler, add the
Modules/_cursesmodule.c to the python20 project, include the pdcurses
lib and compile.. and hold your thumbs :-)

An alternative aproach might be to use cygwin to compile python, and
included there is ncurses.

Would it be possible for me to throw one or two eyes at the module you
are doing.. We are converting to continuus here...

        /Andy

| 
| Is the pdcurses library
| (http://www.lightlink.com/hessling/PDCurses/index.html) not good
| enough for this? I thought it was a relatively complete curses
| emulation.
| 
| I'd look at getting the Python curses module working, but it's bundled
| in with the Python sources, and I don't know how to disentangle it...
| 
| Paul.


/ jurgen.defurne at philips.com wrote:
| Dear all,
| 
| I am busy automating tasks across some Windows NT workstations, where
| I control another program (Continuus/CM, if any one knows that).
| Unfortunately, that control is not that easy. Ihave built a GUI interface,
| but I am not really satisfied with it, so I want to simplify it somewhat so that
| it can run in a DOS box using curses. Is there a curses add-on available
| for the Win32 binaries ? It sure isn't part of the distribution I am using,
| which is still the BeOpen version of Python 2.0
| 
| Regards,
| 
| Jurgen



From moshez at zadka.site.co.il  Sat Jan 20 05:49:01 2001
From: moshez at zadka.site.co.il (Moshe Zadka)
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 12:49:01 +0200 (IST)
Subject: [OT] Shared Libraries (was Re: Deployment woes (was: I will kill my Python))
In-Reply-To: <pr3a6.945$eI2.263837@ruti.visi.com>
References: <pr3a6.945$eI2.263837@ruti.visi.com>, <mailman.979852022.13720.python-list@python.org> <947r18$rdt$1@news.online.de> <WV0a6.745$eI2.252250@ruti.visi.com> <4DE7F9DB9399A3C1.D96FC6EFB3F2391E.88AD1775E4555FCA@lp.airnews.net>
Message-ID: <20010120104901.6A62CA83E@darjeeling.zadka.site.co.il>

On Fri, 19 Jan 2001 22:44:37 GMT, grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards) wrote:

> The whole "DLL roulette" game that Windows
> users play every time they install something seems a bit
> ridiculous.  Under most Unix systems you can install as many
> different revisions of a shared library as you want.

Let me just note that the whole concepts and theory of Windows shared
libraries (AKA DLLs) and UNIX shared objects (.so's, also called shared
librarires) are so far, it's a shame they are called by the same name.
They both try to solve the same problem, but the underlying system
is so different, there's no basis for comparison *except* for end-user
experience. Here the situation differs between Unices as much as it
does between Windows and UNIX, and has nothing to do with the implementation:
even different distribution of Linux handle it with varying quality.

Basically, the problem is thorny, the solution is hairy, and the only
saving grace of Linux is that the packages have concepts of dependancies.

Other Unices seldom get much software installed on them: either commercial
software (which *isolates* itself from the environment as best it can,
so all shared libraries are internal), or GNU software, of which only
the parts which are easy to install (IOW, executables) are, with libraries
being few and far between. GNU programs usually contain all the code
they need (bash contains a miniature readline, etc.), precisely to be
installed easily.
-- 
Moshe Zadka <sig at zadka.site.co.il>
This is a signature anti-virus. 
Please stop the spread of signature viruses!
Fingerprint: 4BD1 7705 EEC0 260A 7F21  4817 C7FC A636 46D0 1BD6



From cpr at emsoftware.com  Fri Jan 19 03:26:59 2001
From: cpr at emsoftware.com (Chris Ryland)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 08:26:59 GMT
Subject: PSU uses emacs?
References: <948e4b$hm0$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <948fvj$oq1$1@panix6.panix.com>
Message-ID: <948tog$tts$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

In article <948fvj$oq1$1 at panix6.panix.com>,
  aahz at panix.com (Aahz Maruch) wrote:
> In article <948e4b$hm0$1 at nnrp1.deja.com>,
> Chris Ryland  <cpr at emsoftware.com> wrote:
> >
> >Why do I have the sinking feeling that, with all the talk about IDEs
> >for Python, the cognoscenti all use Emacs with python-mode and a
> >shell window? ;-)
>
> vi

Sorry, didn't mean to start a vi/emacs war here. I just meant a "real"
editor. ;-)

Emacs-editing-keystrokes-hardwired-into-fingers-never-reaching-the-
brain-from-22-years-of-emacsing-ly yours,
--
Chris Ryland * Em Software, Inc. * www.emsoftware.com


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http://www.deja.com/


From puckoh at my-deja.com  Mon Jan 22 16:42:21 2001
From: puckoh at my-deja.com (puckoh at my-deja.com)
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 21:42:21 GMT
Subject: Count and replacing strings a texfile
Message-ID: <94i9ft$apq$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

Hello.

This is a probably basic question.
I have a textfile about 120k large, and there is several strings in it
which I must replace.
The strings are named "%id%" and the number of strings are unknown.

First, I need to count them all.
Then I must replace every one of them with a incrementing number.
Like the first %id% is replaced with 1, the second with 2 etc.

I've been told that this is a perfect job for Perl, but I don't
understand Perl.
I merely understand Python. Well, I think I got the basics anyway. :)


Anyone care to help me out for a minute to suggest what to do?
Any pointers to examples are alot appreciated.

Thanks.

/Andreas


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From chris at voodooland.net  Thu Jan 11 15:31:26 2001
From: chris at voodooland.net (Chris Watson)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 14:31:26 -0600 (CST)
Subject: BUG Python 2.0 FreeBSD compile problem
In-Reply-To: <%yo76.5561$Qb7.774534@newsb.telia.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.21.0101111429120.36494-100000@open-systems.net>


> if I don't run FreeBSD, how does a ports tree help me verify
> that the current CVS version builds cleanly on FreeBSD?

	It doesn't. I was referring to the fact that the 2.0 version of
Python is IN the ports tree. And someone (the maintainer of that port) had
already gone to the trouble to patch it and insure it compiles well and
added the other nice features of "ports" in FreeBSD. So there was no need
to download it and try building it yourself. Unless you just like too. :-)

--
=============================================================================
-Chris Watson         (316) 326-3862 | FreeBSD Consultant, FreeBSD Geek 
Work:              scanner at jurai.net | Open Systems Inc., Wellington, Kansas
Home:  scanner at deceptively.shady.org | http://open-systems.net
=============================================================================
WINDOWS: "Where do you want to go today?"
LINUX: "Where do you want to go tomorrow?"
BSD: "Are you guys coming or what?"
=============================================================================
irc.openprojects.net #FreeBSD -Join the revolution!
ICQ: 20016186




From fray_fernando at my-deja.com  Sun Jan 21 11:47:44 2001
From: fray_fernando at my-deja.com (fray_fernando at my-deja.com)
Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 16:47:44 GMT
Subject: Static members?
Message-ID: <94f3rf$m6j$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

Hi!

How do you define a class that has an attribute common to all instances
of this class? Something like the static members in C++

TIA


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From nikolai.kirsebom at siemens.no  Thu Jan  4 09:02:22 2001
From: nikolai.kirsebom at siemens.no (Nikolai Kirsebom)
Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 14:02:22 GMT
Subject: Importing into 'containers' namespace
References: <3a544e22.1199160471@news.mch.sni.de> <Vo_46.620$Gd1.76220@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <3a547ee0.1211638714@news.mch.sni.de>

Thanks, I though of this as a possible solution - but I want to try to
avoid it because:

The application I'm making is a simple DB application consisting of a
set of entities.  I want to make it possible for the user of the
application to define their own 'macros' where Python is the language.


If they define a macro (file like below), the framework object shall
be available when it is 'launched' (by the framework).

#MACRO-FILE:
# Print info on all pupils of supplied age and sex (simplified).

st, a, b = Fw.DialogInputs("Age", "Sex")
if st:
   objs = Fw.GetObjects("Pupil", a, b)
   for obj i objs:
      obj.Print("Some report format")


Initially, I think I will find it easier to convince them (the user)
to use this approach (functional) rather than having to define a class
etc - but if there is no way round - I'll have to somehow go for the
class approach you suggest. (The example uses OO though !!!)

In principle the system should also make it possible to open an
interactive window (like in PythonWin), and in that scope a framework
object should also be available - so the content of the file (above)
could be entered interactively.

Thanks anyway.

Nikolai
   



From fredrik at effbot.org  Tue Jan  2 17:00:43 2001
From: fredrik at effbot.org (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2001 22:00:43 GMT
Subject: HTML Parsing
References: <Vvq46.6762$ca.70091@typhoon.jacksonville.mediaone.net>
Message-ID: <fcs46.2687$AH6.449153@newsc.telia.net>

Denis Voitenko wrote:
> I am trying to do some HTML parsing with htmllib but not getting anywhere.
> Can someone give a couple of basic examples?

www.deja.com => htmllib gives you lots of basic
examples.

here are a few:

    http://www.deja.com/getdoc.xp?AN=697108054
    http://www.deja.com/getdoc.xp?AN=695441907
    http://www.deja.com/getdoc.xp?AN=660036627

if you want more help, ask Mr. Lamb.

stupid-ly yrs /F




From erwin at andreasen.com  Sun Jan 28 09:04:53 2001
From: erwin at andreasen.com (Erwin S. Andreasen)
Date: 28 Jan 2001 14:04:53 GMT
Subject: "print" strange with Sybase module
References: <3A70163A.10D995@schlund.de> <94q0f6$lu5$1@news.cybercity.dk> <vHOc6.27482$DB1.273597@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <9518u5$1rk0$1@news.cybercity.dk>

On Sun, 28 Jan 2001 01:09:59 -0500, Chris wrote:

>I've been experiencing this unflushed buffer issue as well when running some
>Python programs in the background and redirecting their output to log files.
>Is there any way that I could force the buffers to flush somehow?  I am
>being plagued by incomplete log files!  Or perhaps there is a better
>approach?

You can run Python with the -u switch -- that will force stdin/out/err etc. to
be completely unbuffered.

Or use sys.stdout.flush() to ensure that stdout is flushed whenever you have
written something important (Assuming that you already have a log function
that prints stuff like timestamp, so you could put it there).

AFAICS, there is no way to turn the buffering to be line-based on an existing
file object (it might be an idea for a future release?). You could do
something like:

sys.stdout = os.fdopen(os.dup(sys.stdout.fileno()), 'w', 1)

which would reopen standard output as a line-buffered (the 1) stream,
i.e. every time you have written a full line to the file object, it's flushed
-- just like when you run the program on the console.

(they os.dup may not be strictly necessary in case of sys.stdout -- but if you
have another file object and do the above to it, it would get destroyed, which
also means that its underlying unix file descriptor would get closed. So you'd
have a new file object that has a closed file descriptor).

Oh -- I'm not sure if os.dup and os.fdopen work under non-UNIX systems.

-- 
=======================================================================
<erwin at andreasen.com>           Herlev, Denmark       Software Designer
<URL:http://www.andreasen.org/>       <*>         LASAT^WEicon Networks
=======================================================================


From bogus at bogus.net  Sat Jan 20 20:04:27 2001
From: bogus at bogus.net (bogus at bogus.net)
Date: 21 Jan 2001 01:04:27 GMT
Subject: Random and whrandom
References: <94bj03$59v$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <3a6a3540.1976549@news.xo.com>

The whrandom algorithm may not generate very good random numbers. I
created a pair of dice objects and rolled them 10,000 times, there
seems to be a bias against rolling the same number on both dice.

M

Marshall A


From jafo-pythonlist at tummy.com  Thu Jan 25 00:28:08 2001
From: jafo-pythonlist at tummy.com (Sean Reifschneider)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 22:28:08 -0700
Subject: function attributes are like function objects
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0101242015290.2444-100000@z.glue.umd.edu>; from katz@Glue.umd.edu on Wed, Jan 24, 2001 at 08:28:12PM -0500
References: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0101242015290.2444-100000@z.glue.umd.edu>
Message-ID: <20010124222808.A26314@tummy.com>

On Wed, Jan 24, 2001 at 08:28:12PM -0500, Roy Katz wrote:
>Reading the 'function attributes' thread and looking at users' needs... I
>have to ask... why function attributes?  why not function *objects*?

I haven't followet the discussion here, but when I read about fucntion
atributes in 2.1 I though "I wonder what took so long".  It didn't really
seem like they were missing so much as it seemed like they would act
more like everything else now...

Though it seems like Zope could have made do with callable objects instead
of using doc strings:

	>>> class foo:
	...    def __call__(self):
	...       print 'Foo is:', self.foo
	... 
	>>> f = foo()
	>>> f.foo = 1
	>>> f()
	Foo is: 1

Sean
-- 
 I would rather suffer defeat than have cause to be ashamed of victory.
                 -- Quintus Curtius
Sean Reifschneider, Inimitably Superfluous <jafo at tummy.com>
tummy.com - Linux Consulting since 1995. Qmail, KRUD, Firewalls, Python



From syver at NOSPAMcyberwatcher.com  Wed Jan 17 17:55:24 2001
From: syver at NOSPAMcyberwatcher.com (Syver Enstad)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 23:55:24 +0100
Subject: Python + IIS problems
References: <902598A71mikecat@192.168.10.38> <93trlf$kof$1@troll.powertech.no> <902C94518mikecat@192.168.10.38>
Message-ID: <94585n$a34$1@troll.powertech.no>

"Mike 'Cat' Perkonigg" <blablu at gmx.net> wrote in message
news:902C94518mikecat at 192.168.10.38...
> syver at NOSPAMcyberwatcher.com (Syver Enstad) wrote in
> <93trlf$kof$1 at troll.powertech.no>:
>
> >Have you setup the IIS correctly?
> >
> >The commandline parameter for the interpreter should be:
> >
> >path to python "%s" %s
> >
>
> That's the point. I found this on a website too and it works now, but
with:
> path_to_python\python.exe %s %s
>
> Thanks,
> Mike

Yes, the path to python might f.ex be c:\program files\python20\python.exe




From spenrose at well.com  Sun Jan 14 21:39:03 2001
From: spenrose at well.com (Sam Penrose)
Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 18:39:03 -0800
Subject: More on web development
References: <0hr16t4gt4vp72b8aqcs0tup6ddcs1urtr@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <spenrose-348FD8.18390314012001@news.dnai.com>

In article <0hr16t4gt4vp72b8aqcs0tup6ddcs1urtr at 4ax.com>, Tim Roberts 
<timr at probo.com> wrote:

> The recent thread on web development techniques and templating vs
> Python-as-HTML has been very helpful.  I wonder if I might explore 
> another
> aspect of this, which actually relates more to using Python in larger
> applications.
> 
> There are a number of ways to architect a Python-based web site with many
> pages.  I have tended to build my site with one script per page, so that
> the URL simply points to the .py file.  I'm now realizing this has a 
> number
> of disdvantages.  For one thing, it can be difficult to share global 
> state.
> I've tried to put common things, including instances of global data, into 
> a
> "common.py", but since common.py has to be imported into almost every 
> file,
> there seem to be multiple instance issues.
> 
> I'm wondering now if it would be better to have the whole site dispatched
> by a single script, using the PATH_INFO part of the URL to identify a
> command to be executed.  Does anyone have any feelings about this?
> 
> I'm also considering switching my global state from module-based to class
> instance-based.  The biggest advantage to this, it seems to me, is that I
> no longer need to worry about importing my common.py everywhere.  I can
> pass the global class instance around and call the methods without the
> import, and without worrying about nested import dependencies.
> 
> Any advice from the more experienced Python web developers?
> --
> - Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
>   Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.

0) The answer depends on the details of what you are trying to do and 
the resources you have to do it with. That may sound pedantic, but there 
really is no "right" way to do Python web development.

1) Our larger systems maintain global "state" using a database, and 
place constants in a single file which is imported by everything. If you 
really need persistent Pythonic state, I would think CGI is not the 
right tool. At least, I'm not clear on how you "pass the global class 
instance" from one process to another. I suppose if you were using a 
threaded CGI server that might work.

2) Vis-avis HTML, we use a mixture of session keys/ids in HTML to 
reference state which is recorded in the database plus hidden HTML 
fields for data which is more conveniently stored client side.


From fredrik at effbot.org  Tue Jan 30 03:06:54 2001
From: fredrik at effbot.org (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 08:06:54 GMT
Subject: function parameters again
References: <4ond6.158$pT.3554@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu> <Kynd6.9804$Qb7.1498291@newsb.telia.net> <3A76725B.3F21E0FA@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <yCud6.9828$Qb7.1503418@newsb.telia.net>

Peter Hansen wrote:
>  'In Python, you can't change a number you store in a
>   variable, and assignment doesn't work.'
> (As read with a heavy dose of newbie-ness in mind. )

most Python newbies I've met in real life are of the "what am
I missing" and "how exactly does this work" kind, rather than
the "if it doesn't work as *I* expect, it's broken" variety.

I still think that's true on comp.lang.python too (most of the
time, at least ;-)

Cheers /F




From moshez at zadka.site.co.il  Wed Jan 10 11:07:07 2001
From: moshez at zadka.site.co.il (Moshe Zadka)
Date: 10 Jan 2001 10:07:07 -0600
Subject: Dr. Dobb's Python-URL! - weekly Python news and links (Jan 10)
Message-ID: <54B6390A899764D3.9EE2F3E3C6B3D7C2.966488AC87AC7F89@lp.airnews.net>

    Alex Martelli talks about factory functions in Python,
        http://deja.com/=gh/article/%3C930af60qcn at news1.newsguy.com%3E
    using IE as an ActiveX Control Container
        http://deja.com/=gh/article/%3C92v27e02jia at news2.newsguy.com%3E
    and gives a Cookie tutorial
        http://deja.com/=gh/article/%3C932ab206uv at news2.newsguy.com%3E

    Fredrik Lundh announces a Tkinter 3000 sneak preview
        http://deja.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=712907200
    answers Tkinter questions
        http://deja.com/=gh/article/%3C3d666.4421$Qb7.632024 at newsb.telia.net%3E
        http://deja.com/=gh/article/%3Ctyh56.3818$Qb7.494106 at newsb.telia.net%3E

    Joe Smith inspires a flurry of explanations about Python's
    reference semantics
        http://deja.com/=gh/getdoc.xp?AN=711730366

    Tim Peters explains the speed of reading only line at a time
        http://deja.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=713160899
    and the difference between regular expressions theory and practice
        http://deja.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=711605598

    As always, language comparisons are one of comp.lang.python's
    favourite passtimes
        http://deja.com/=gh/article/%3C3Fa56.4580$of7.216286 at news1.atl%3E
        http://deja.com/=gh/article/%3CHEO56.5504$y9.2881293 at typhoon.we.rr.com%3E

    Russell Turpin initiates a thread about writing long-running applications
        http://deja.com/=gh/article/%3C9354f9$vbi$1 at nnrp1.deja.com%3E

    Andrew Dalke explains how to write modules with magic methods
        http://deja.com/=gh/article/%3C937l3u$gbi$1 at slb2.atl.mindspring.net%3E

    Paul Prescod with hints about compiling ZODB for Win32
        http://deja.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=711993778

    Christian Tismer announces Stackless Python 2.0
        http://deja.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=713064536

    Donn Cave advocates saying no to os.system
        http://deja.com/=gh/article/%3C935p59$cga$1 at nntp6.u.washington.edu%3E

    Serdar Soydemir summarizes how to distribute Python applications with a link
        http://deja.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=711885904


========================================================================

Everything you want is probably one or two clicks away in these pages:

      Python.org's Python Language Website is the traditional
      center of Pythonia
          http://www.python.org

      PythonWare complements the digest you're reading with the
      daily python url
           http://www.pythonware.com/daily  

      comp.lang.python.announce announces new Python software.  Be
      sure to scan this newly-revitalized newsgroup at least weekly.
          http://deja.com/group/comp.lang.python.announce

      Andrew Kuchling writes marvelous summaries twice a month of
      the action on the python-dev mailing list, where the future
      of Python is truly determined
	  http://www.amk.ca/python/dev

      The Vaults of Parnassus ambitiously collects Python resources
          http://www.vex.net/~x/parnassus/   

      Much of Python's real work takes place on Special-Interest Group
      mailing lists
          http://www.python.org/sigs/

      Python Consortium emerges as an independent nexus of activity
          http://www.python.org/consortium

      Cetus does much of the same
          http://www.cetus-links.de/oo_python.html

      Python FAQTS
          http://python.faqts.com/

      Python To-Do List anticipates some of Python's future direction
          http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/todo.py

      Python Journal is at work on its second issue
          http://www.pythonjournal.com

      Links2Go is a new semi-automated link collection; it's impressive
      what AI can generate
          http://www.links2go.com/search?search=python

      Archive probing trick of the trade:
          http://www.dejanews.com/dnquery.xp?QRY=&DBS=2&ST=PS&defaultOp=AND&LNG=ALL&format=threaded&showsort=date&maxhits=100&groups=comp.lang.python


Previous - (U)se the (R)esource, (L)uke! - messages are listed here:
  http://purl.org/thecliff/python/url.html
or
  http://www.dejanews.com/dnquery.xp?QRY=~g%20comp.lang.python%20Python-URL%21


Suggestions/corrections for next week's posting are always welcome.
[http://www.egroups.com/list/python-url-leads/ is hibernating.  Just
e-mail us ideas directly.]

To receive a new issue of this posting in e-mail each Monday morning,
ask <claird at neosoft.com> to subscribe.  Mention "Python-URL!".


-- The Python-URL! Team--

Dr. Dobb's Journal (http://www.ddj.com) is pleased to participate in and
sponsor the "Python-URL!" project.
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at NeoSoft.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://starbase.neosoft.com/~claird/home.html


From ralf.claus at t-online.de  Tue Jan  9 16:41:46 2001
From: ralf.claus at t-online.de (Ralf Claus)
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 22:41:46 +0100
Subject: dns reverse look up with python ?
References: <93ecvp$v21$02$1@news.t-online.com> <93fe1k$mh4$0@216.39.151.169> <U4L66.246946$U46.7820243@news1.sttls1.wa.home.com>
Message-ID: <93g0it$lqd$01$1@news.t-online.com>

:-) thank you for all this answers !
Sometimes, python is to much simple ;-)

thanks




From sandj.williams at gte.net  Thu Jan 11 10:20:18 2001
From: sandj.williams at gte.net (Steve Williams)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 15:20:18 GMT
Subject: ActivePython2.0 - Server Side objects for ASP problem
References: <93j0qi$7cv$1@bob.news.rcn.net> <tK876.2719$24.38513@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com> <93k6k5$1g7$1@bob.news.rcn.net> <9li76.10661$X3.66765@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <3A5DD081.F37275A@gte.net>

Steve Holden wrote:

> "Satheesh Babu" <vsbabu at erols.com> wrote in message
> news:93k6k5$1g7$1 at bob.news.rcn.net...
> [snip]

> > Making a COM object on the server is also beyond me.
>
> If you get a copy of Mark Hammond and Andy Robinson's "Python Programming on
> Win32" you'll be doing it before bedtime and thinking nothing of it.
> Seriously, it's a lot less complicated than you might imagine.
>

[snip]

Danger Will Robinson!!

You can, indeed, write and install a COM object on the server before bedtime,
but you might be up all night getting your client to talk to it.  Some pitfalls:

1)    The client doesn't have Python installed.  It uses MS Access or VB or
Excel or Word.  How do you register your COM server on the client?   Whose
classid/appid do you use?  Light a taper and go down into the regedit dungeon.

2)    When you try to use the COM object you get 'Permission Denied'.  Time to
read a ton of MS Q documents and maybe talk to an unfriendly and ignorant NT
administrator.

3)    When you try to use the COM object, you get 'ActiveX can't create. . .'.
Time for some more bedtime reading.

4)    Your client is a laptop manufactured in the Pleistocene era and needs
dcomcnfg and regsvr32. . .  Don't forget the service packs.

5)    You call your friends and they say "I've never had that problem, maybe you
should install MTS. . ."




From vonehr at ira.uka.de  Wed Jan  3 08:34:43 2001
From: vonehr at ira.uka.de (Markus von Ehr)
Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 14:34:43 +0100
Subject: win32com, COM, MediaPlayer
References: <3A52EED5.F5F40D62@ira.uka.de> <92uv2d02ga7@news2.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <3A532A73.BBAB9315@ira.uka.de>

Hi Alex,

> If you do want to work asynchronously, I think you'll have to check
> (by poll, or by events) on the various 'states' involved (I'm not
> sure whether OpenState, PlayState, or ReadyState governs here; alas,
> MediaPlayer appears to be rather underdocumented, and I can't easily
> experiment here since IsSoundCardEnabled tells me '0'...:-).
> 

I checked the IsSoundCardEnabled state, here it's 1. Seems to be OK...

> end", as in your code) until the operations you desire are also done
> (I _think_, but I'm not sure, that this also holds for the Play
> verb).

In my code, the application doesn't end. I just put an endless loop
with a sleep(1) statement at the end.

> Another minor issue with your code:
> 

I tried:

w.AutoStart=1
w.FileName="c:\Programme\Python\ex1.wav"

w.Play()

but the Play command leads to the same error :-(

Thank you,

Markus


From michael at stroeder.com  Sat Jan 27 08:09:55 2001
From: michael at stroeder.com (Michael =?iso-8859-1?Q?Str=F6der?=)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 14:09:55 +0100
Subject: Interested in a Crypto-SIG?
Message-ID: <3A72C8A3.C4B4D69A@stroeder.com>

HI!

(I know that SIG proposals should go to the META-SIG list but I
guess not many developers are subscribed to this list. Therefore I
start the discussion here.)

I would like to propose a Crypto-SIG. The goal is to define Pythonic
class APIs for various cryptographic and related standards to enable
developers to use a unified API for implementing crypto-enabled
applications in Python independent of the underlying implementations
(basically inspired by Sun's Java crypto-related APIs).

APIs for (in my personally preferred order):
- cryptographic algorithms (similar to Sun's JCE for Java)
- encoding/decoding ASN.1 objects
- X.509 certificates (including path validation)
- SSL
- S/MIME
- SPKI
- OpenPGP
- XML-DSIG

Let me know what you think.

Ciao, Michael.


From cfelling at iae.nl  Fri Jan 26 09:22:56 2001
From: cfelling at iae.nl (Carel Fellinger)
Date: 26 Jan 2001 15:22:56 +0100
Subject: python-2.1 function attributes
References: <mailman.980510913.2926.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <94s180$360$1@animus.fel.iae.nl>

"Tony J Ibbs (Tibs)" <tony at lsl.co.uk> wrote:
...
> Of course, we already have ways in Python to allow continuation over
> lines and indenting for a list of items - and I'd have said the obvious
> one to use here *was* the dictionary specification, which takes us back
> to:

>  def f(long_name, even_longer_name, still_longer_name) with \
>          (publish=1, secure=0, grammar=f_grammar):
>      """and here is the doc string."""
>      print "bobbins"

Can we use this second parameter list for closures as well?  Moreover,
I most definitely would expect to be able to refer to publish etc within
the function body without having to qualify it with the funtion name.
And are assignments to those function attributes allowed within the 
function body?

> I'm still a little concerned about the use of "with" as the keyword,
> though, since it has precedent for uses where the value being defined is
> a "local" constant - but on the other hand I can't think of a better
> word at the moment.

But it is local, local to f.

-- 
groetjes, carel


From jkndeja at my-deja.com  Wed Jan 10 11:27:38 2001
From: jkndeja at my-deja.com (jkndeja at my-deja.com)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 16:27:38 GMT
Subject: escape sequences and string comparisons
References: <93cboe$ctj$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <93elo7$aoh$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <beB66.4855$Qb7.682074@newsb.telia.net>
Message-ID: <93i2hb$8a$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

Hello Fredrik

[...]

> How about reading the *Python* manual instead?
>

Well, actually I read amongst other things, pp. 774 of Mark Lutz'
'Programming Python', where table C-9 says

[...]
\other  'any other character'

Which I now realise is incorrect, or misleading at best. And the
otherwise excellent 'eff-bot guide to the Python Standard Library'
makes no mention of this [no surprise, I realise it's not a language
guide]. I quoted the references I had at the time, and have now been
enlightened, with your help as well as the on-line documentation.


> Sigh /F

indeed...

    j^n


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From dalke at acm.org  Wed Jan 10 13:26:50 2001
From: dalke at acm.org (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 11:26:50 -0700
Subject: boolean xor
References: <93ace8$nmo$1@panix3.panix.com> <93i7ne$5dk$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <93i9ff$q4l$1@slb0.atl.mindspring.net>

ndev42 at yahoo.com wrote:
>A boolean xor is a detector of differences. Knowing that, you can
>simply write:
>
>def xor(a,b):
> return not(a==b)

The expression "not ( (a and b) or (not (a or b)) )"
checks the truth value of a and b, which means it calls
__nonzero__ or __len__ as unary methods of the object.
The == is a binary operator which may call the __coerce,
__cmp__ or __rcmp__ methods, so your version does something
different than the original code.

For your form to work, what you need to do instead is

  return not (operator.truth(a) == operator.truth(b))

Another thing to think about:

>>> def xor(a,b): return not(a == b)
...
>>> xor(4,5)
1
>>> def xor(a,b): return not ( (a and b) or (not (a or b)) )
...
>>> xor(4,5)
0
>>> def xor(a,b): return not (operator.truth(a) == operator.truth(b))
...
>>> xor(4,5)
0
>>>

                    Andrew
                    dalke at acm.org





From bryan at eevolved.com  Sat Jan 27 13:47:24 2001
From: bryan at eevolved.com (Bryan Mongeau)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 18:47:24 GMT
Subject: Announce: AES for python
Message-ID: <0JEc6.3839$fe1.75053@news20.bellglobal.com>

Greetings,

A lower thread discussing Crypto-SIGs has prompted me to release my 
Advanced Encryption Suite module for python. I hope it will prove useful to
people wishing to implement the latest cryptographic algorithms.

Get it at:

http://sourceforge.net/projects/pyaes

Features:

- Rijndael with 128,192,256 bit keys (ECB mode only for now)
- NIST's SHA256
- Elliptic Curves in GF^233
- TSEPRNG, a new, easy, CSPRNG (work in progress, check out sci.crypt)
- Happy Docs 

Caveats:

- ECDSA is not working yet due to freelip issues.
- You'll need SWIG to build it.
- Only Unix Makefile included. (sorry win people)

Enjoy and keep in mind this is a work in progress. I was prompted to 
release it by discussion in this newgroup. Newer releases will be cleaner. 
The suite was developped for another, larger project and thus, pyAES 
updates will be on hold until it is completed (could be a few months).

Please don't hesitate to inform me of any difficulties you encounter while 
using this module.

-- 
<==================================>
Bryan Mongeau
Lead Developer, Director
eEvolved Real-Time Technologies Inc.
www.eevolved.com
<==================================>

"Heroism on command, senseless violence, and all the loathsome nonsense 
that goes by the name of patriotism -- how passionately I hate them!"-- 
Einstein



From joejava at dragonat.net  Tue Jan  9 17:57:58 2001
From: joejava at dragonat.net (Joel Ricker)
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 17:57:58 -0500
Subject: dns reverse look up with python ?
References: <93ecvp$v21$02$1@news.t-online.com> <93fe1k$mh4$0@216.39.151.169>
Message-ID: <nNM66.1678$_e7.114504@news2.atl>

Donn Cave wrote in message <93fe1k$mh4$0 at 216.39.151.169>...
>Quoth "Ralf Claus" <ralf.claus at t-online.de>:
>
>| any suggestion about this theme ?
>| Is there a way for me (newbie) ?
>
>>>> import socket
>>>> socket.gethostbyname('t-online.de')
>'194.25.134.132'
>>>> socket.gethostbyaddr('194.25.134.132')
>('www1.sul.t-online.de', [], ['194.25.134.132'])
>
>That's what I understand "reverse lookup" to mean.  Given
>a DNS name, like the host name that appears in your email
>address "t-online.de", first I look up the IP address with
>gethostbyname().  Then, I look up the DNS address by the
>IP address.
>
>Hopefully, after this procedure you have a stable pair of
>IP and DNS addresses, so if you repeat this procedure you
>will continue to get the same answer.  That's the point.


When I saw this question posted last night, I started to answer it the same
way I did it in Perl.  I needed to do a reverse lookup myself in a project I
was doing.  I couldn't make heads or tails of the perl modules that can do
this so I finally figured out how to do this as a os command with nslookup.
Basically I was looking up the IP address reported by the web server to see
if its me or not and lock out everyone else for the time being.  With perl
you do system commands like this:

$Result = `nslookup 127.0.0.1`

and $Result will contain the results of the command.  But what I found in
the Python reference was os.system("command") which returned only a value
that reports if the command was successful or not.  What is the Python way
of running command and have the actual results of the command returned?

later,
Joel

--
I have been Perl-Free for 4 Days, 20 Hours, 8 Minutes, and 30 Seconds.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Joel Ricker   joejava at dragoncat.net
  Just Another Python Hacker




From roy at panix.com  Sun Jan 28 11:35:23 2001
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 11:35:23 -0500
Subject: Hack request: rational numbers
References: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0101251759070.28148-100000@kev.ioc.ee> <951h34$tch$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <roy-F8F697.11352328012001@news.panix.com>

chaoweilun at my-deja.com wrote:
> Sorry,BTW,could anyone tell me,why the letter "j" is used
> to represent complex numbers, but not "i"?

Because "i" was already used for current.


From thrasymedes at my-deja.com  Sat Jan 27 01:14:51 2001
From: thrasymedes at my-deja.com (thrasymedes at my-deja.com)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 06:14:51 GMT
Subject: Newbie question
Message-ID: <94tp0p$8bj$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

Hi,
   This is, as the subject line suggests, a newbie question (actually
several questions).  I have read the FAQ at Python.org but I still have
a couple of queries.  I'd be equally happy with a direct answer or a
reference to another FAQ.

1. I am running Python under Windows98.  I have successfully written
some basic modules and called them from the interactive prompt, but my
manual (the O'Reilly 'Learning Python') doesn't seem to say anything
about compiling standalone executables.  Is there more documentation
about this somewhere on the Web site?  Or doesn't Python do standalones?

2. I am currently using Python 1.5.2 and the appropriate version of
Pythonwin for it.  Should I upgrade to Python 2.1 or ActivePython or
some other version?  (I have no intention in the short term to do
anything more with it than footle around trying to figure out how it
works (virtually no prior programming experience) and maybe writing
some programs with a purely ASCII display.)

Thanks very much, regards, Thrasymedes.


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From moshez at zadka.site.co.il  Fri Jan  5 22:19:03 2001
From: moshez at zadka.site.co.il (Moshe Zadka)
Date: Sat,  6 Jan 2001 05:19:03 +0200 (IST)
Subject: Q: how to execute an outside program in the python ?
In-Reply-To: <H5356.720$WF6.14481@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu>
References: <H5356.720$WF6.14481@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu>
Message-ID: <20010106031903.04A7DA851@darjeeling.zadka.site.co.il>

os.system

-- 
Moshe Zadka <sig at zadka.site.co.il>
This is a signature anti-virus. 
Please stop the spread of signature viruses!



From thomas at xs4all.net  Fri Jan 12 16:18:33 2001
From: thomas at xs4all.net (Thomas Wouters)
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 22:18:33 +0100
Subject: One Python 2.1 idea
In-Reply-To: <2eA46.11268$uq.460401@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>; from sholden@holdenweb.com on Wed, Jan 03, 2001 at 02:07:04AM -0500
References: <mailman.977771949.17911.python-list@python.org> <9292tn$jka$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <929n9c013m3@news1.newsguy.com> <2eA46.11268$uq.460401@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <20010112221832.C1005@xs4all.nl>

On Wed, Jan 03, 2001 at 02:07:04AM -0500, Steve Holden wrote:

> Please tell me it at least interns the names ...

All identifiers are interned, because they are 'string literals' after a
fashion. But in the case of 'xfoo = getattr(x, "fo"+"o")', the string isn't
interned (obviously.) Not that interning matters that much, in speed.

-- 
Thomas Wouters <thomas at xs4all.net>

Hi! I'm a .signature virus! copy me into your .signature file to help me spread!



From reuter at Uni-Hohenheim.DE  Thu Jan  4 11:26:33 2001
From: reuter at Uni-Hohenheim.DE (Daniel Reuter)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 17:26:33 +0100
Subject: AttributeError in ScientificPython, why?
Message-ID: <20010104172633.A945@erdnuss>

Reply-To: 
Hello there,

I recently installed ScientificPython, hope that someone on this list has
some experiences with it.
Now if I enter the following in interactive mode:

import Scientific.Functions.Derivatives
import math
from Scientific.Functions.Derivatives import DerivVar
print math.sin(DerivVar(2))

I should, due to the manual get something like this:
(0.909297426826, [-0.416146836547])

However, I get this:
Traceback (innermost last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
AttributeError: __float__

I'm quite new to python and the library reference doesn't tell that much
about the AttributeError exception, so it would be nice, if someone could
enlighten me a bit, something wrong with my imports perhaps?
TIA,
Regards,
Daniel



From nas at arctrix.com  Mon Jan 29 04:29:20 2001
From: nas at arctrix.com (Neil Schemenauer)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 01:29:20 -0800
Subject: PSU uses emacs?
In-Reply-To: <3A758F88.3349FDAA@attglobal.net>; from rol9999@attglobal.net on Mon, Jan 29, 2001 at 10:43:04AM -0500
References: <948e4b$hm0$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <948fvj$oq1$1@panix6.panix.com> <3A67CDC3.7EACB07D@Lugoj.Com> <9490t009on@news2.newsguy.com> <3a685ef2.3403798@reading.news.pipex.net> <949rii0a76@news1.newsguy.com> <3a6eb2fa.2347467@reading.news.pipex.net> <mailman.980374351.22360.python-list@python.org> <3a7542d7.2738309@reading.news.pipex.net> <3A758F88.3349FDAA@attglobal.net>
Message-ID: <20010129012920.B14763@glacier.fnational.com>

On Mon, Jan 29, 2001 at 10:43:04AM -0500, Roland Schlenker wrote:
> It does have a nasty habit of moving a line starting with a # to the
> first cloumn. I have not figured how to stop that yet.

Perhaps something in "help cinkeys" will be of use.

  Neil



From gotcha at swing.be  Thu Jan 18 04:01:29 2001
From: gotcha at swing.be (gotcha at swing.be)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 09:01:29 GMT
Subject: cross platform file lock
References: <943qij$had$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <Ono96.206$L75.303@news.more.net>
Message-ID: <946bd7$m9i$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

In article <Ono96.206$L75.303 at news.more.net>,
  "Jeff Kunce" <kuncej at mail.conservation.state.mo.us> wrote:
> > But after browsing Python Library reference,
> > Python FAQ, and comp.lang.python, I have not been
> > able to determine if there is a cross platform
> > file locking mechanism available for Python.
>
> I have a module that implements [most of] the
> posixfile file-locking protocol on NT. This lets
> you run nearly the same code on unix or NT.
>
> See:
>     ntposixfile.py
> at:
>     http://starship.python.net/crew/jjkunce/
>
>   --Jeff
>
>
Thanks, I'll check it...

Godefroid Chapelle
BubbleNet sprl
Louvain-la-Neuve Belgium


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From aahz at panix.com  Tue Jan  9 19:59:13 2001
From: aahz at panix.com (Aahz Maruch)
Date: 9 Jan 2001 16:59:13 -0800
Subject: Problem with __del__
References: <3A5B6434.2BD6FEF6@mail.dvz.fh-koeln.de> <1OJ66.4624$AH6.762498@newsc.telia.net> <r3N66.1718$_e7.114959@news2.atl>
Message-ID: <93gc51$bq3$1@panix6.panix.com>

In article <r3N66.1718$_e7.114959 at news2.atl>,
Joel Ricker <joejava at dragonat.net> wrote:
>
>I guess I could chime in with my question.  What is the proper
>implementation of deleting objects once you are done with them.  Thats
>probably the one part of the objects section of the tutorial  that I wasn't
>sure about. Wouldn't you want a destructor to do things for cleanup or would
>just implement it differently like this:
>
>def deleteme(self)
>    dosomething();
>    del self

Depends what you mean by "cleanup".  One of Python's axioms is "explicit
is better than implicit", so if by "cleanup" you for example mean that a
special series of three bytes should be written to a file at the end of
the operation, you're responsible for writing your program logic in a way
that writes the bytes at the appropriate time.

OTOH, if by "cleanup", you simply mean reclaiming the used memory, you
mostly don't need to worry about it in Python.  When objects go out of
scope, they're automatically cleaned up, more or less.  The only time
they don't get automatically cleaned up is when you've got a cyclical
reference (two objects that mutually point at each other).  Even then,
Python 2.0 now comes with garbage collection enabled by default, so it's
not too likely you'll have problems.
-- 
                      --- Aahz (Copyright 2001 by aahz at pobox.com)

Androgynous poly kinky vanilla queer het    <*>     http://www.rahul.net/aahz/
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6

Sometimes, you're not just out of left field, you're coming in all the
way from outer space.  --Aahz


From aa8vb at yahoo.com  Mon Jan 29 14:18:23 2001
From: aa8vb at yahoo.com (Randall Hopper)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 14:18:23 -0500
Subject: freebsd extension problem
In-Reply-To: <Y0jKkKAaBDc6EwhS@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>; from
 robin@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk on Thu, Jan 25, 2001 at 01:55:38PM +0000
References: <Y0jKkKAaBDc6EwhS@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <20010129141823.A1010242@vislab.epa.gov>

Robin Becker:
 |I'm trying to build an extension which used to work with 1.5.2 unde
 |freebsd.
 |
 |I seem to be able to build the extension using the old
 |
 |make -f Makefile.pre.in boot method and have linked to various
 |libraries. However for some reason I'm getting a bad magic number error
 |when trying to import the module.
 |
 |I assume that this is somehow caused by a missing import. Is there an
 |easy way to find out what I'm missing?

Potentially useful links below.  Could be that you have an ELF python and
an AOUT module, or vice versa.  Run 'file' on each to see.  

I assume these are FreeBSD binaries (not Linux under emulation).

http://www.deja.com/=dnc/[ST_rn=ps]/getdoc.xp?AN=704455585
http://www.deja.com/=dnc/[ST_rn=ps]/getdoc.xp?AN=704541401


-- 
Randall Hopper
aa8vb at yahoo.com



From andreas at andreas-jung.com  Fri Jan 12 00:49:03 2001
From: andreas at andreas-jung.com (Andreas Jung)
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 06:49:03 +0100
Subject: Python language suggestion
In-Reply-To: <93l4ve$no3$1@nnrp1.deja.com>; from cpr@emsoftware.com on Thu, Jan 11, 2001 at 08:27:39PM +0000
References: <93l4ve$no3$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <20010112064903.A4043@yetix.sz-sb.de>

On Thu, Jan 11, 2001 at 08:27:39PM +0000, Chris Ryland wrote:
> This migh sound radical, but has anyone ever entertained the idea that
> foo.'bar bletch' might be a useful and logical extension of Python's
> current attribute selection machinery?

What are be the benefits of this extension of Python developers ? IMHO your
idea is just some kind of syntactical sugar and I think we don't really need
this :-)

Andreas 



From cpr at emsoftware.com  Thu Jan 18 10:13:13 2001
From: cpr at emsoftware.com (Chris Ryland)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 15:13:13 GMT
Subject: Regular expressions
References: <MPG.14cf88e8d0c87a6d989681@news.syd.connect.com.au> <946cof430tl@news2.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <947160$7ni$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

In article <946cof430tl at news2.newsguy.com>,
  "Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote:
[...]

Great--Alex, when are we going to see the "Aye-bot's Guide to the
Python Language" in print/e-print? ;-)

--
Chris Ryland * Em Software, Inc. * www.emsoftware.com


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From fredrik at effbot.org  Tue Jan 30 07:58:00 2001
From: fredrik at effbot.org (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 12:58:00 GMT
Subject: slow joinings of strings
References: <87ofwpnrpp.fsf@losthighway.ahoj.pl>
Message-ID: <sTyd6.10208$AH6.1656446@newsc.telia.net>

Karol Bryd wrote:
> I want to read a file (0.6MB, 10000 lines) into memory, and want to do it as
> fast as possible, this code does it, but is terribly slow
>
> fp = open(file, 'r')
> s = ''
> while 1:
>         line = fp.readline()
>         if line == '': break
>         s = s + line
>
> (executing time 25 sec)
>
> At first I thought that this is caused by readline() and lack of buffering
> but after removing "s = s + line" executing time decreased to 0.7 seconds!
> The question is how to join two strings in a more efficient way?

if you know your files won't be larger than a couple
of megabytes, you can use readlines instead:

    for line in fp.readlines():
        ...

(in 2.1, "for line in fp.xreadlines()" is nearly as efficient,
and won't run out of memory no matter how large your
file is)

to speed up the string concatentation, use "join":

    import string
    L = []
    for line in fp.readlines():
        ...
        L.append(line)
    s = string.join(L, "")

(there's a FAQ entry with more performance tips and
tricks. www.python.org => FAQ)

Cheers /F




From dsh8290 at rit.edu  Tue Jan 23 16:21:45 2001
From: dsh8290 at rit.edu (D-Man)
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 16:21:45 -0500
Subject: observer design pattern
In-Reply-To: <3A6CA19C.89A6DFB2@attglobal.net>; from rol9999@attglobal.net on Mon, Jan 22, 2001 at 04:09:48PM -0500
References: <94i340$4er$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <3A6CA19C.89A6DFB2@attglobal.net>
Message-ID: <20010123162145.A22126@harmony.cs.rit.edu>

On Mon, Jan 22, 2001 at 04:09:48PM -0500, Roland Schlenker wrote:
| fray_fernando at my-deja.com wrote:
| > 
| > Where can I find some python sample code implementing the observer
| > pattern? O:-)
| > TIA
| > 
| > Sent via Deja.com
| > http://www.deja.com/
| 
| This is the example in the Design Patterns book for the observer
| pattern written in Python.
| 
| # Demonstrate an observer pattern.
| 
| import time
| 
| class Observer:
|     def __init__(self):
|         pass
|     def update(self, theChangedSubject):
|         pass
[snip]

Since Python is dynamically typed, this Observer class (or interface,
as it should be in Java) is unnecessary since it doesn't do anything.
It may, however, improve readability when the concrete subclass
inherits from it.  Though maybe that just belongs in a docstring or
comment.

Just some thoughts.

-D




From gerhard.nospam at bigfoot.de  Fri Jan  5 13:00:01 2001
From: gerhard.nospam at bigfoot.de (Gerhard =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 19:00:01 +0100
Subject: Graphic innovation (was: Migrating to perl?)
References: <3Fa56.4580$of7.216286@news1.atl> <3A555E34.3E01E4D0@bigfoot.de> <D93F5A69557422A1.BDF93B78ADFD2C85.86D8957AC9F3CCB1@lp.airnews.net>
Message-ID: <3A560BA1.3E0B695C@bigfoot.de>

I just happened to use wxPython for something that people normally use
Python Imaging Library. I didn't quite 'get' PIL, and I already knew
wxPython.

There were two button templates (one for selected, one for deselected).
The titles of the webpages were written onto the button templates in a
specified font.

The relevant code was very much like this:

def create( self ):
    wxImage_AddHandler( wxPNGHandler() )

    dc = wxMemoryDC()
    dc.SetFont( self.font )
    if self.infile == None:
        bmp = wxEmptyBitmap( self.width, self.height, self.colordepth )
    else:
        # load button template
        bmp = wxBitmap( self.infile, wxBITMAP_TYPE_PNG )

    # create a drawing context from the bitmap
    dc.SelectObject( bmp )

    # draw text on the button
    dc.DrawText( self.text, 5, 4 )

    # save button to file
    i = wxImageFromBitmap( bmp )
    i.SaveFile( self.outfile, wxBITMAP_TYPE_PNG )


Gerhard H?ring

Cameron Laird wrote:

> wxPython generates buttons for Web pages?  I
> don't understand; do you mean you created an
> application which dynamically generates inter-
> esting buttons, which you then "snapshotted"
> to use as HTML IMGs?

Yes, more or less. Except that it was done for static HTML pages once.

-- 
Sorry for the fake email, please use the real one below to reply.
contact: g e r h a r d @ b i g f o o t . d e
web:     http://highqualdev.com


From mhammond at my-deja.com  Mon Jan  8 14:20:31 2001
From: mhammond at my-deja.com (Mark Hammond)
Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2001 19:20:31 GMT
Subject: Python licensing issues
References: <3a59f39f.16066282@news.t-online.de>
Message-ID: <93d3ti$34c$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

In article <3a59f39f.16066282 at news.t-online.de>,
  gerson.kurz at t-online.de (Gerson Kurz) wrote:

> It would be nice if someone could explain
> without resorting to too much legalese.

There are no lawyers here - so unfortunately, whatever responses you
get here must be ignored, and you have to make your own decision based
on the licence text.  It isn't that hard to read, and anything you need
to _infer_ must be infered by you alone (or your lawyer!)

> And how about distributing python20.dll standalone (provided thats
> feasible), so that non-programmers don't have to dl a 8MB
> distribution.

Again, I don't want to give legal advice.  However, be aware that
distributing the DLL is not enough to make Python work - you will also
need to distribute much of the standard library.

> And does anybody of you know of major differences to be aware of for
> BeOpen-Python 2.0 vs. ActiveState-Python 2.0 installed machines?

None.

Mark.


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From fabrice.n at home.com  Sun Jan 28 18:31:03 2001
From: fabrice.n at home.com (shaka)
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 23:31:03 GMT
Subject: Does anyone have python on Win98???
Message-ID: <XY1d6.9583$KP3.3117045@news3.rdc1.on.home.com>



Ok, I need some help here.  I just download python on my computer.
I installed it to     C:\programming\python20

I know how to use the interactive mode.  And when write a script I usually
run it from the editor(idle) by clicking on "run script".

But when I try to run the script using the interpreter, it doesn't work.
What I do is to type the name of the script.py in the interactive mode. It
always give me an error message like:
                        Traceback (most recent call last):
                          File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
                        NameError: There is no variable named 'hello'

Is the interpreter suppose to be in interactive mode everytime?

If you have no idea of what I am talking about, can you just describe me how
you usually run your script.









From spam at spam.com  Mon Jan 15 18:45:51 2001
From: spam at spam.com (Penfold)
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 23:45:51 -0000
Subject: Determining names of instances
References: <e7L86.554$KD3.238565@typhoon.aracnet.com>
Message-ID: <t672pp89nmdv8a@corp.supernews.com>

"Daniel Klein" <DanielK at jBASE.com> wrote in message
news:e7L86.554$KD3.238565 at typhoon.aracnet.com...
> A question I hope has a simple answer. Take the following simple class and
> instance
>
>     class foobar:
>         pass
>
>     foo = foobar()
>
> The question is, is there a way for the object 'foo' to know that its name
> is 'foo'?

In short, no.  A longer answer is to say that it doesn't particularly make
sense to ask an object for its name.
Why?  Because in python objects exist and are referenced through "bindings".
Thus, 'foo' is not a name for the instance created by foobar(), it is simply
*one* particular binding for that object.  One of, in general, many.  The
statement foo = foobar() does not define a name for the object, it only
defines a binding in the current namespace.

Any particular object, may have many bindings in different namespaces and in
the same namespace.  For instance

    foo = foobar()
    flubber = foo
    print id(foo), id(flubber)

You'll see that both foo and flubber are the same object, same as in the
*exact same instance*.  So what is the name of the object ?  Both foo and
flubber are merely bindings, ways of getting at the object.  They are in no
way tied up with the object itself and thus *neither* can be names.

This of course is the simplest example. But what about other common ones.
eg
    L = [];L.append(foobar())

then L[0] obviously exists, but how exactly would you define a name for it ?
What about
    class X: pass
    x = X(); x.wibble = foobar()

Again, what is the "name" of the object, is it "x.wibble"?  No, the whole
question isnt particularly well defined.

However, if you are desperate to find the name of a *binding* for an object
you can do that simply by inspecting the globals()/locals()/whatever
namespace you're interested in.

Des.
>
> Daniel Klein
>
>




From tim.one at home.com  Fri Jan 19 05:56:48 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 05:56:48 -0500
Subject: Why is "as" not a keyword?
In-Reply-To: <3A679717.1328@loop.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCKEJCIJAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Jesse W]
> Most people know about the functionality of the import statement that
> lets you import something under a differnt name.  It uses the word "as"
> to tell the interpreter.

Yes, that's a recent addition to the language.

> Why is "as" not a keyword?

Because-- and unlike "in" and "from" --it's a *recent* addition to the
language.  Keywords are reserved words in Python:  you cannot use them for
any other purpose.  Making "as" a keyword at this late stage would have
broken any existing program that happened to already use "as" for its own
purposes (vrbl name, class name, whatever).

> ...
> Currently, it seems to me to be confusing when you type
> 	import foo as bar
>  in IDLE, and import lights up as a keyword, but "as", which has to be
> there and is clearly part of the syntax, does not.

Yup!  In 2.1 alpha 1 (due out Real Soon), I fiddled IDLE to color each word
instance of "as", in "import ..." and "from xxx import ..." statements, and
on the same physical line following the "import" part, as if it were a
keyword.  This is a cheap approximation to the truth.  It's not worth
getting much fancier than that (IDLE can't afford to do a "real parse" -- it
uses an excruciating bag of regexp tricks, and regexps aren't good for
capturing the full truth here).

Barry (Warsaw) also recently fiddled the Emacs pymode to do something
similar.

Don't know about anything else.

really!-don't-know-about-*anything*-else!-what?-ly y'rs  - tim




From cprice404 at my-deja.com  Wed Jan 10 18:27:46 2001
From: cprice404 at my-deja.com (cprice404 at my-deja.com)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 23:27:46 GMT
Subject: DTML/Zope AND Flash
References: <93i5su$kfs$1@news1.xs4all.nl> <93iqp9$oa7$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <93ir57$ohb$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

oops, sorry for the multiple posts, that's what I get for using deja...
and my real email address is cprice at pointone.com... stupid deja. :)

In article <93iqp9$oa7$1 at nnrp1.deja.com>,
  cprice404 at my-deja.com wrote:
> You should be able to use a dtml document--we've
> done it on several occasions.  One problem that I
> have had in the past is that it seems that the
> dtml document can't have any carriage returns in
> it.  So what I've had to do on several occasions
> is use 2 dtml docs... so let's say that I have a
> doc1 and doc2 and the flash client makes it's
> request to doc1.  Here is an example of what those
> docs might look like:


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From mjackson at wc.eso.mc.xerox.com  Tue Jan  2 09:59:20 2001
From: mjackson at wc.eso.mc.xerox.com (Mark Jackson)
Date: 2 Jan 2001 14:59:20 GMT
Subject: using 'global' across source files.
References: <3A51E6B7.82FFE8F4@sara.nl>
Message-ID: <92sqc8$nm9$1@news.wrc.xerox.com>

Bram Stolk <bram at sara.nl> writes:
> Remco Gerlich wrote:

> > You need "print funcs.val" now (just like you call the function with
> > "funcs.change_val()).
> 
> Huh??
> Mind you, 'val' is defined in prog.py, NOT funcs.py.

But the val that change_val changes is defined in funcs.py, NOT prog.py.

> > "global" just means "global inside this module".
> 
> Well, that's my whole problem.
> How do I refer to 'val' if it is in another *unnamed* module?

And if you don't name the module, how should Python decide *which* val
you want?  There can be one in each namespace, each referring to an
object (which may or may not all be distinct).

> According to the manuals, it should simply be in the namespace
> '__main__', but that doesnt work either.

You're misreading the manuals.  Can you tell us how you drew this
conclusion?  (Possibly the manuals could be clearer.)

-- 
Mark Jackson - http://www.alumni.caltech.edu/~mjackson
	The power of accurate observation is frequently called
	cynicism by those who don't have it.
			- George Bernard Shaw




From colin.sarsfield at usa.net  Sat Jan 20 13:33:00 2001
From: colin.sarsfield at usa.net (Colin Sarsfield)
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 13:33 -0500
Subject: Python GUI toolkits for BeOS
References: <VZ3a6.2229$3T2.70785@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <94b4n5$64l$0@216.39.151.169>
Message-ID: <8n98c874ullhvbls7rdufkb674.lvfgak6arr000@usa.net>

Please do.  It would be appreciated.

On 20 Jan 2001 04:37:57 GMT, Donn Cave <donn at oz.net> wrote:
> If it's all the same to you, I would go right out and get the source
> for Python 2.0 and build and install it.  It isn't like there are
> huge problems with 1.5.2, but 2.0 is the current release and works
> fine on BeOS.  I guess I should build up a binary release, with the
> works, and distribute that.
-- 
Colin Sarsfield | BeOS Developer 
Catharon Productions, Inc. | http://www.catharon.com
mailto:colin.sarsfield at usa.net | http://www.csarsfield.com



From loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de  Mon Jan  1 08:24:44 2001
From: loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de (Martin von Loewis)
Date: 01 Jan 2001 14:24:44 +0100
Subject: Language localization?
References: <92g4ev$5v3$1@newsreaderm1.core.theplanet.net>
Message-ID: <p6qhf3js8v7.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>

"Franz GEIGER" <fgeiger at datec.at> writes:

> Regardless whether I run scripts within a console or within PythonWin, the
> umlauts (? = ae, ? = oe, ? = ue) and other special chars are not displayed
> correctly.
> E.g. \n seems to be "translated" to \012.

Please try "print result" instead of just "result" in the interactive
interpreter prompt. When the interpreter displays the result from some
computation, it outputs the repr() of the result, not its str().

Regards,
Martin


From grey at despair.rpglink.com  Tue Jan  2 15:49:34 2001
From: grey at despair.rpglink.com (Dogbert)
Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2001 20:49:34 -0000
Subject: why no "do : until"?
References: <92jj3j$ff7$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <slrn94smds.150.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <FOt36.17$vd1.2224@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com> <slrn94t1vj.150.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <mqw36.50$9s1.10042@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com> <slrn94tqf3.150.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <mailman.978452403.7305.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrn954fmu.rg3.grey@teleute.rpglink.com>

On Tue, 2 Jan 2001 17:19:39 +0100, Thomas Wouters <thomas at xs4all.net> wrote:
>On Sun, Dec 31, 2000 at 08:10:11AM -0000, Steve Lamb wrote:

>>     Whatever.  *plonk*

>No, no. You are supposed to say 'bah' and dismiss the subject with a wave
>of your paw -- and you should change your name to Dogbert first.

    *waves paw dismissively*  Bah!

-- 
Dogbert, need you ask?


From ngreco at softhome.net  Sat Jan 27 18:41:10 2001
From: ngreco at softhome.net (Nahuel Greco)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 20:41:10 -0300
Subject: PyMacs vs. Pym (was: Pyditor, Text editor fully extendible in python a la' Emacs)
In-Reply-To: <HBEJKOJGHBOIBHLHPMKGIEAACIAA.rcalco@cortechs.com>
References: <20010127193848.59d0f64b.ngreco@softhome.net>
	<HBEJKOJGHBOIBHLHPMKGIEAACIAA.rcalco@cortechs.com>
Message-ID: <20010127204110.6e694608.ngreco@softhome.net>

On Sat, 27 Jan 2001 18:18:23 -0500
"Bob Calco" <rcalco at cortechs.com> wrote:

> Nahuel:
> 
> Basically, it sounds like you want PyMacs: Emacs - iLisp + Python. Some

No, besides ilisp has not a python interface,  emacs is too much bloat, i
want something more well designed and python extensible from the beggining.

> reasonable people might prefer something more basic, like Pym (Vi-IMproved
> implemented in Python that can spawn the Python interpreter or C compiler at
> will on anything that moves). Either way, you're likely to incite a fresh
> round of editor flame-wars with talk like this!
> 

I search google, sourceforge, and freshmeat for pym, and none... 
pym exists?.. i want to know that, but pym doesnt sound as my perfect editor :)


> (Said the pot to the kettle...)
> 
> By the way, my ideal text editor will also keep my coffee cup full of warm,
> fresh Expresso while I'm working. Haven't found one yet that can do that,
> not even the super-extensible Emacs... so, I have to do it manually for now.
> And I thought we lived in the 21st century!
> 

A text editor with a female body? :)

> I'll be happy to work with anyone on a new "programmer's text editor" but
> I'll have to insist on the java (small j) support...
> 

why java? (maybe we can do an editor and a language flamewar in the same thread! :)




Nahuel Greco



From mwh21 at cam.ac.uk  Fri Jan 26 08:53:34 2001
From: mwh21 at cam.ac.uk (Michael Hudson)
Date: 26 Jan 2001 13:53:34 +0000
Subject: Hack request: rational numbers
References: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0101251759070.28148-100000@kev.ioc.ee> <m3wvbjxs9h.fsf@atrus.jesus.cam.ac.uk> <Pine.LNX.4.21.0101261251120.7303-100000@kev.ioc.ee> <m3k87ixwv1.fsf@atrus.jesus.cam.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <m3elxqxvvl.fsf@atrus.jesus.cam.ac.uk>

Michael Hudson <mwh21 at cam.ac.uk> writes:

> Pearu Peterson <pearu at ioc.ee> writes:
> 
> > And it will break other codes/modules where `3/4' is expected to return
> > `0'.
> 
> Yes, but won't your idea?  I'd admit I haven't thought too hard about
> all this.

Obviously not.  Apologies for being dense.

Cheers,
M.

-- 
  NUTRIMAT:  That drink was individually tailored to meet your 
             personal requirements for nutrition and pleasure.
    ARTHUR:  Ah.  So I'm a masochist on a diet am I?
                    -- The Hitch-Hikers Guide to the Galaxy, Episode 9


From phd at phd.pp.ru  Fri Jan 26 04:57:15 2001
From: phd at phd.pp.ru (Oleg Broytmann)
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 12:57:15 +0300 (MSK)
Subject: Help for DCOracle examples
In-Reply-To: <3A70765B.637ADDCE@agyinc.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0101261256080.31021-100000@fep132.fep.ru>

On Thu, 25 Jan 2001, Joe Murray wrote:
> OCI_ERROR at oci_8.c:275
> Error while trying to retrieve text for error ORA-12545
>
> Script works from command line (ie, connects to OracleDB no problem).
> But not via browser... hmmm.  Is there some permissions problem I'm
> missing?

   I can guess it's environment problem - you forget to pass ORACLE_HOME to
the CGI script, where it is passed to command line version.

Oleg.
----
     Oleg Broytmann            http://phd.pp.ru/            phd at phd.pp.ru
           Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN.




From aahz at panix.com  Wed Jan 10 19:27:08 2001
From: aahz at panix.com (Aahz Maruch)
Date: 10 Jan 2001 16:27:08 -0800
Subject: default arguments newbie question
References: <3a5cccca.77467843@localhost> <93ijpa$asp$1@panix3.panix.com> <3A5CD60D.98CFAD33@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <93iuks$rh6$1@panix3.panix.com>

In article <3A5CD60D.98CFAD33 at alcyone.com>,
Erik Max Francis  <max at alcyone.com> wrote:
>Aahz Maruch wrote:
>
>> Yup.  Technically, you really want to write "if l is None", though; if
>> you don't actually care about it being precisely None, the common
>> idiom
>> is to write "if l".
>
>Eh?  I don't see that.  Any value which is not None will compare unequal
>to None, correct?  Certainly this true for the fundamental types like
>strings, numbers, tuples, and lists:

You must have missed the post recently where someone showed a class that
compared equal to None.
-- 
                      --- Aahz (Copyright 2001 by aahz at pobox.com)

Androgynous poly kinky vanilla queer het    <*>     http://www.rahul.net/aahz/
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6

Sometimes, you're not just out of left field, you're coming in all the
way from outer space.  --Aahz


From danunder at columbus.rr.com  Fri Jan  5 16:35:18 2001
From: danunder at columbus.rr.com (Dan Underwood)
Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 21:35:18 GMT
Subject: Pmw exceptions
References: <Bpc56.514$bR3.150339@typhoon2.ba-dsg.net>
Message-ID: <3A563EA1.D25C2CB@columbus.rr.com>

I've had these occur when I inadvertantly had deleted a widget then
tried to reference it, like deleting a pane from a PanedWidget.
[...]
> TclError: bad window path name ".135904648.136185616.136517944.136580888.136581216.136582336"
> 
[...]
> TclError: invalid command name
> +".135436696.136171776.136299000.136254976.136330840"
[...]

No experience with the last one.
> 
> And then totally random ones that are related to
> my code, but not in any way that I can see that
> changing anything would help:
[...]


From sill at localhost.kitenet.net  Tue Jan 16 20:55:42 2001
From: sill at localhost.kitenet.net (Oldayz)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 01:55:42 GMT
Subject: checking free disk space
References: <mailman.979561515.12701.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <yY696.4018$KE.199382@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>

On Mon, 15 Jan 2001 14:23:59 +0200, Langa Kentane <LangaK at discoveryhealth.co.za> wrote:
>Good day.
>
>I want to write a script that I can use to check the free disk space on all
>drives.  The script will be used in Linux and Wind0ze.
>
>For instance, I want to write something like:
>
>get list of mounts/drives
>for i in mount_list
>	check disk space left in %
>	if disk space is certain amout:
>		do this
>	else
>		do that
>	endif
>endrun
>
>Please can you point me in the right direction.  I posted something before
>on this list but I realised that will not work in a wind0ze environment.

On unix you can parse output of df, and on windows I'm not entirely sure
but doesn't dir command tell you how much space is left on drive? So you
can keep trying cd X:; dir; starting with C and until you run out of drives..
You can tell if it's a cd if it's under 650mb and has no free space at all.

>
>Thanks in advance.
>
>__________________________________________________________
>Langa Kentane		| TEL: (011) 290 3218
>Security Administrator	| Cell: 082 606 1515
>DISCOVERY HEALTH		| http://www.discoveryhealth.co.za
>__________________________________________________________________
>
>


-- 

	Andrei


From debl at theworldNoSpammy.com  Mon Jan  1 20:47:10 2001
From: debl at theworldNoSpammy.com (David Lees)
Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2001 01:47:10 GMT
Subject: Recursion
References: <mailman.978392042.23846.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3A513319.99F69D27@theworldNoSpammy.com>

Tim,

Real nice explanation.  I was going to post something similar, but yours
is clearer.

Two minor things that come out of playing with recursive and
nonrecursive factorial using PythonWin.  A question and an observation.

1. I notice a pretty low (<999) recursion depth limit for factorial on
Python 2.0.  Can the depth be set easily or does it require recompiling
Python?

2. A simple iterative factorial such as the one one posted by Gerlich
seems to run out of some printing related resource under PythonWin at
values of N around 1400.  Further, the response of PythonWin seems to be
serverly degraded after this.  On the other hand, when I assign the
output of the iterative factorial function to a variable, the result is
computed very rapidly (2 seconds for 10000!).  I can still display the
output by converting it to a string ala:  StringVersion='%s' % x
where x is the 35,660 digit result of 10,000 factorial.

david lees


Tim Peters wrote:
> 
> [Bob Calco]
> > ...
> > def factor(N):
> >   n = 1L
> >   for i in xrange(1,N+1):
> >     n *= i
> >   return n
> >
> > I tried it with 5000, and then 10000, and while it isn't super fast
> > in either case, and seemed more than twice as slow at 10000 than
> > 5000, it sure did work.
> 
> Your observations are on target but your intuition is off base:  the time it
> takes to multiply two C ints is (on most modern machines) independent of
> their values.  But the time to multiply two unbounded ints (the way Python
> does it) is proportional to the product of the number of bits in each.
> Here, work these two out "by hand", and time yourself:
> 
> 2 * 3
> 98 * 57
> 
> I'm betting the second one took more than twice as long as the first one
> <wink>.  Then try
> 
> 2309874023984023908293 * 821768768768726487687682364876328
> 
> by hand.  So, yes, factor(10000) will be substantially more than twice as
> slow as factor(5000) -- the former eventually has to deal with much larger
> numbers, and larger numbers cost more to operate on.
> 
<snippity>


From tb_lin at hotmail.com  Tue Jan  2 02:14:03 2001
From: tb_lin at hotmail.com (TB)
Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2001 07:14:03 GMT
Subject: HELP! win32com, COM, Invoke problem
Message-ID: <92rv3q$asi$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

Hi,

I'm new to Python and COM, so forgive me if I'm using the wrong terms
or etc. I really want to replace M$ VBScript or JScript with Python.
Please help.

In a nutshell, the problem is I'm having problem converting a Jscript
to a Python, the working JScript looks like

==start JScript==
ClfyApp = WScript.CreateObject("Clarify.CBO.App.1");
ClfySession = ClfyApp.CreateSession();
ClfySession.Login("sa", "sa");
ClfyForm = ClfySession.CreateFormContext();
.....
== end JScript

==Start Python==
import win32com.client

win32com.client.dynamic.debugging = 1
win32com.client.dynamic.debugging_attr = 1

app = win32com.client.Dispatch("Clarify.CBO.App.1")
sess = app.CreateSession()
print sess.SessionId
print sess.GetCurrencyNameList

sess.Login("sa","sa")
# all works until here
form = sess.CreateFormContext() # something wrong here...

=== end Python ===

The error message looks like:
Attribute SessionId not in cache
Getting property Id 0x1 from OLE object
OLE returned  UNO_11FFD521
UNO_11FFD521
Calling GetIDsOfNames for property GetCurrencyNameList in Dispatch
container CreateSession
Attribute GetCurrencyNameList not in cache
Getting property Id 0x10 from OLE object
OLE returned  USD - US Dollar (Base Currency)
USD - US Dollar (Base Currency)
Calling GetIDsOfNames for property Login in Dispatch container
CreateSession
Attribute Login not in cache
Getting property Id 0x3 from OLE object
Calling GetIDsOfNames for property CreateFormContext in Dispatch
container CreateSession
Attribute CreateFormContext not in cache
Getting property Id 0x5 from OLE object
OLE returned  <PyIDispatch at 0x1201194 with obj at 0x2349e20>
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "f:\python20\pythonwin\pywin\framework\scriptutils.py", line
301, in RunScript
    exec codeObject in __main__.__dict__
  File "F:\tb\cbo\test1.py", line 13, in ?
    form = sess.CreateFormContext()
  File "f:\python20\win32com\client\dynamic.py", line 150, in __call__
    return self._get_good_object_(apply
(self._oleobj_.Invoke,allArgs),self._olerepr_.defaultDispatchName,None)
com_error: (-2147352573, 'Member not found.', None, None)

I used to debugger to dig into the dynamic.py, at line #422
try:
 ret =
self._oleobj_.InvokeretEntry.dispid,0,pythoncom.DISPATCH_PROPERTYGET,1)
 except pythoncom.com_error, details:
....

it doesn't throw an exception even CreateFormContext is a method, and
the invoked is called with DISPATCH_PROPERTYGET. Is it supposed to
throw an exception when a method is called with PROPERTYGET?

what OLEVIEW says about Session
[
  uuid(E8000132-8693-11D0-B8B1-080009B6AB17)
]
dispinterface Session {
    properties:
        [id(0xfffffffc)
]
        IUnknown* _NewEnum;
        [id(0x00000001), helpstring("SessionID")
]
        BSTR SessionId;
        [id(0x00000002), helpstring("Set this property to True when
using JScript")
]
        VARIANT_BOOL JScript;
    methods:
        [id(0x00000003), helpstring("Log into Clarify system")]
        void Login(
                        BSTR pLoginName,
                        BSTR pPassword,
                        [optional] VARIANT LoginType,
                        [optional] VARIANT AssocDefault);
        [id(0x00000004), helpstring("Log out")]
        void Logout();
        [id(0x00000005), helpstring("Creates a Clarify Form Context
object")]
        FormContext* CreateFormContext();
        [id(0x00000006), helpstring("Builds a session cookie string")]
......


--TB


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From msandin at remove_this.hotmail.com  Tue Jan 16 15:51:34 2001
From: msandin at remove_this.hotmail.com (vague)
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 21:51:34 +0100
Subject: Binary list class, strings or longs?
Message-ID: <942cbc$7qp$1@news.gu.se>

Hi,

Is there anyone who knows if there's a class somewhere that lets me handle
binary objects/streams in Python in a simple way? One possible
implementation would be to have it wrap the string type. I'd like to be able
to perform binary arithmetics on arbitary parts of the objects (as in not
only on byte boundaries or on byte lengths). I would have use for it for
image manipulation in combining bitmasks.

Even more preferable would be if there's a simple way of doing such things
included with Python. It wouldn't be _too_ hard to do such things by
wrapping some string manipulation and the included binary operators in a
class. But I'd rather not if it's possible to avoid or someone else already
did the hairy work for me :-)

Another possiblity would be to use long's as those would make the binary
operations easy, but I don't really know what kind of overhead would be
involved in doing so. Anyone who can tell me?

-
Martin Sandin
http://come.to/vague/




From sandj.williams at gte.net  Fri Jan  5 10:26:09 2001
From: sandj.williams at gte.net (Steve Williams)
Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 15:26:09 GMT
Subject: Migrating to perl?
References: <3Fa56.4580$of7.216286@news1.atl>
Message-ID: <3A55E8D2.A6C6568E@gte.net>

Joel Ricker wrote:

> [snip]

> So basically what I'd like to know is, how do the two compare?  Is there an
> easier learning curve with Python?  Are the modules and add-ons as good as
> perl (ie, Database -- I'm primarily interested in MySQL, CGI, Graphics).
> What about OOP?  Is it it a full OO language?  Is it easier than to use than
> perl?  Perl OO just feels like it has been cludged together.
>

I work with DB2, Interbase and MS Access.  It's a pleasure to use Python and the
mxODBC module to work with these relational databases.

> And lastly, what about the Python community?  Is it friendlier than the perl
> community?  Too many times I've asked questions and all I'll get is pointers
> to documentation, which I've already read and so thats why I'm asking for
> information in the first place.  I understand simple questions for basic or
> novice information will warrant answers like that but not the things I've
> asked.
>

The Python community is very helpful.  I've had quick, direct and accurate
answers to my questions.




From sekter at matavnet.hu  Tue Jan 16 12:30:27 2001
From: sekter at matavnet.hu (Arpad Kiss)
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 18:30:27 +0100
Subject: McMillan's installer & new module
Message-ID: <94209j$giv$1@athena.euroweb.hu>

Hi,
I have installed Python 2.0 and McMillan's installer(version 3i) on Win NT
4.0 sp6.
If I use Standalone.py to create a standalone exe and my script contains
only "import new" then the generated exe raises an error message:
ImportError: No module named new
Any idea?
Thanks,
Arpad

-- --
"Don't try to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and it irritates the
pig."
(Awareness by Anthony de Mello)
-- --




From cg at schlund.de  Mon Jan 15 13:39:59 2001
From: cg at schlund.de (Carsten Gaebler)
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 19:39:59 +0100
Subject: python -O -u vs. -Ou
Message-ID: <3A6343FF.174BB2B7@schlund.de>

Hi there!

There seems to be a difference between

#! /usr/bin/python -O -u

and

#! /usr/bin/python -Ou

as the first line of a script.
In the first case I get the error message

Unknown option: - 
usage: python [option] ... [-c cmd | file | -] [arg] ...

Can anyone explain this to me?

Regards
Carsten.


From juergen.erhard at gmx.net  Fri Jan 12 10:35:19 2001
From: juergen.erhard at gmx.net (Jürgen A. Erhard)
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 16:35:19 +0100
Subject: P*rl in Latin, whither Python?
In-Reply-To: <974070178.345720@clam-ext> (m.hadfield@niwa.cri.nz)
References: <3A0B62B7.59A43E13@gte.net> <slrn90oemp.t5.kc5tja@garnet.armored.net> <slrn90ofcn.ilq.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <3A0C8258.4217A1C@alcyone.com> <slrn90p35i.e2b.wtanksle@dolphin.openprojects.net> <3A0D7321.29BE1264@engcorp.com> <874s1ei02a.fsf@fangorn.stofanet.dk> <3A0DEA72.7F8A2868@alcyone.com> <3A0E0E00.50B7A1E1@engcorp.com>  <871ywhmiis.fsf@fangorn.stofanet.dk> <slrn90u6n6.sj.warlock@gargoyle.myth> <974070178.345720@clam-ext>
Message-ID: <12012001.1@wanderer.local.jae.ddns.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

>>>>> "Mark" == Mark Hadfield <m.hadfield at niwa.cri.nz> writes:

    Mark> "Jim Richardson" <warlock at eskimo.com> wrote in message
    Mark> news:slrn90u6n6.sj.warlock at gargoyle.myth...
    >> At the risk of being flamed to a crisp, can I whineingly point out that
    Mark> you
    >> misspelled hypocrisy? :)

    Mark> Shouldn't that be "whiningly"?  :) :)

    Mark> People in glace houses shouldn't throw stones.

Just an illustration of the truism that every spelling flame contains
at least on spelling error itself. ;-)

Bye, J

PS: Was that "glace" mistake intended? ;-) ;-)

- -- 
J?rgen A. Erhard    juergen.erhard at gmx.net   phone: (GERMANY) 0721 27326
     MARS: http://members.tripod.com/Juergen_Erhard/mars_index.html
                    "Ever wonder why the SAME PEOPLE
      make up ALL the conspiracy theories?" -- Michael K. Johnson
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Use Mailcrypt and GnuPG <http://www.gnupg.org/>

iEYEARECAAYFAjpfJDYACgkQN0B+CS56qs3lvgCeNz1+apG+wvoPWHFcAmq1crvb
Wn0An1D/qZtAjBwCNwKbGK1PDNhIbwWP
=AlDH
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----



From paul.moore at uk.origin-it.com  Thu Jan 18 07:37:23 2001
From: paul.moore at uk.origin-it.com (Paul Moore)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 13:37:23 +0100
Subject: Curses module for Python 2.0 for Windows NT
References: <mailman.979719258.23519.python-list@python.org> <3a65a767.3665680@news.laplaza.org>
Message-ID: <UONmOnbjWRFovHKOlmdSoqTdy=8v@4ax.com>

On Wed, 17 Jan 2001 15:13:23 +0100, xyzmats at laplaza.org (Mats
Wichmann) wrote:

>On Wed, 17 Jan 2001 09:23:42 +0100, jurgen.defurne at philips.com wrote:
>
>>Dear all,
>>
>>I am busy automating tasks across some Windows NT workstations, where
>>I control another program (Continuus/CM, if any one knows that).
>>Unfortunately, that control is not that easy. Ihave built a GUI interface, 
>>but I am not really satisfied with it, so I want to simplify it somewhat so that
>>it can run in a DOS box using curses. Is there a curses add-on available
>>for the Win32 binaries ? It sure isn't part of the distribution I am using,
>>which is still the BeOpen version of Python 2.0
>
>Problem is not with Python, but with missing the piece that the curses
>module depends on: curses itself.

Is the pdcurses library
(http://www.lightlink.com/hessling/PDCurses/index.html) not good
enough for this? I thought it was a relatively complete curses
emulation.

I'd look at getting the Python curses module working, but it's bundled
in with the Python sources, and I don't know how to disentangle it...

Paul.



From dsh8290 at rit.edu  Fri Jan 19 11:41:29 2001
From: dsh8290 at rit.edu (D-Man)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 11:41:29 -0500
Subject: Python training on east coast?
In-Reply-To: <t6efqlt9jvj929@corp.supernews.com>; from jasonic@nomadicsltd.com on Thu, Jan 18, 2001 at 02:12:44PM -0500
References: <B68C6B99.8E47%bobhicks@adelphia.net> <3a6711b0.2563646@news.laplaza.org> <t6efqlt9jvj929@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <20010119114129.D4478@harmony.cs.rit.edu>

On Thu, Jan 18, 2001 at 02:12:44PM -0500, Jason Cunliffe wrote:
| Mats Wichmann <xyzmats at laplaza.org> wrote in message
| news:3a6711b0.2563646 at news.laplaza.org...
| > On Thu, 18 Jan 2001 14:45:43 GMT, Robert L Hicks
| > <bobhicks at adelphia.net> wrote:
| >
[snip]
| Now if only I could find a willing tutor on comp.lang.python and a few

Just ask your questions.  If people find it interesting, they will
answer.  :-)

Also try tutor at python.org .

-D


BTW,  have you looked at the tutorial on www.python.org ?



From a at a.a  Tue Jan 23 04:46:49 2001
From: a at a.a (Aaron)
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 22:46:49 +1300
Subject: Python as a web server?
Message-ID: <980242697.576973@shelley.paradise.net.nz>

Hi all, I was wanting to dable in writing a very simple online turn based
game, and was wondering if python could manage the server and client side of
things? I'd need database access on the server, and would need to be able to
get the client to print text of course, and draw some simple graphics like
lines, circles, fills, points and the odd image.

Could someone tell me if this is possible or should I use something else
(Like php). If python is the way to go do you have any links on python
server writing?

Cheers
Aaron





From cpr at emsoftware.com  Sat Jan 20 17:02:31 2001
From: cpr at emsoftware.com (Chris Ryland)
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 22:02:31 GMT
Subject: pyXML support for XSL tranformations??
References: <rtga6.18098$bb.708443@news1.rdc1.tx.home.com>
Message-ID: <94d1tj$6sa$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

In article <rtga6.18098$bb.708443 at news1.rdc1.tx.home.com>,
  "Scott Hathaway" <slhath at DownWithSpam.home.com> wrote:
> Using the Microsoft tools, you can load an XML document, then load
and XSL
> or XSLT document into memory and then call nodeTransform to blend the
two
> together and then spit it back out.
>
> Is there a way to do this with pyXML or any other python xml library?
>
> Scott
>

The Fourthought people (www.fourthought.com) also have an open-source
XSLT processor written in Python.
--
Chris Ryland * Em Software, Inc. * www.emsoftware.com


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From ssthapa at harper.uchicago.edu  Sat Jan 20 12:28:45 2001
From: ssthapa at harper.uchicago.edu (ssthapa at harper.uchicago.edu)
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 17:28:45 GMT
Subject: PSU uses emacs?
References: <948e4b$hm0$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <948fvj$oq1$1@panix6.panix.com> <3A67CDC3.7EACB07D@Lugoj.Com> <9490t009on@news2.newsguy.com> <3a685ef2.3403798@reading.news.pipex.net> <949rii0a76@news1.newsguy.com> <mailman.979929746.2047.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrn96h6ul.a8b.ssthapa@ntcs-ip45.uchicago.edu>

D-Man <dsh8290 at rit.edu> wrote:
>| silly control-M (carriage-return) that using some other editor
>| may have inserted, :%s/^Q^M// is what one types (with ^ to mean
>                      ^
>
>What does the % mean here?  I usually use :g/^V^M/s/// (working on NT
>or in cygwin's console vim).

    I believe the % is a shortcut for 1,$


-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------
			    |
Suchandra Thapa             | "There are only two kinds of math books. 
s-thapaNO at SPAMuchicago.edu  | Those you cannot read beyond the first 
			    | sentence, and those you cannot read 
			    | beyond the first page."
			    |                       -C.N. Yang
------------------------------------------------------------------


From fredrik at effbot.org  Thu Jan 25 04:46:51 2001
From: fredrik at effbot.org (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 09:46:51 GMT
Subject: beep again
References: <mailman.980415329.32326.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <fCSb6.9116$Qb7.1309851@newsb.telia.net>

Tim Peters wrote:
> I suppose the other choice is to remap this to the MS
> MessageBeep(MB_OK) function, so it plays the default
> sound on *all* systems.

how about renaming "winsound" to "_winsound", and
introducing a Python wrapper:

    # winsound.py
    from _winsound import *
    platform = ...
    if platform in ("win95", "win98"):
        def Beep(...):
            ...generate wave data...
            PlaySound(data)

(may Will's synthesizer code could fit in there somewhere)

Cheers /F




From andreas at andreas-jung.com  Fri Jan 12 04:33:28 2001
From: andreas at andreas-jung.com (Andreas Jung)
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 10:33:28 +0100
Subject: New Gopher Client
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.21.0101120130510.47790-100000@open-systems.net>; from chris@voodooland.net on Fri, Jan 12, 2001 at 01:35:58AM -0600
References: <20010112081455.A4585@yetix.sz-sb.de> <Pine.BSF.4.21.0101120130510.47790-100000@open-systems.net>
Message-ID: <20010112103328.A5280@yetix.sz-sb.de>

On Fri, Jan 12, 2001 at 01:35:58AM -0600, Chris Watson wrote:
> 
> > Don't take it personel but why do people spend their time for such out-dated
> > protocols and technologies ?
> 
> 	You mean such outdated protocols like SMTP, X.500, DNS, and FTP.
> Which pre-dated gopher :-) Your right what a silly idea. 
> Some of us still use gopher, archie, WAIS, veronic, etc..

Outdated in the sense that a protocol/technology has been replaced by a
better technology. When one should really need a gopher-like functionality
I would use HTTP and a browser like Lynx or w3m. They offer the same functionality.
But this discussion is only of academic interest. So this might be the last message
in this thread :-)

Andreas



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Tue Jan 16 07:40:45 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 13:40:45 +0100
Subject: Search engine 'results' counts (was Re: PHP vs Python)
References: <eAs86.7767$ED.239213@news1.rdc1.bc.home.com> <6cn66t4pr42di71gip2re87evnorpqq63c@4ax.com> <3A63E928.12A56BC2@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <941g8302f2@news1.newsguy.com>

"Peter Hansen" <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message
news:3A63E928.12A56BC2 at engcorp.com...
    [snip]
> > python AND (mod_snake OR NOT snake) => 186,508 pages
> > php => 177,182 pages (overestimated as it's the default extension)
>
> On the topic of using search engines to compare counts
> of 'users' (not that I think you were very serious :),
> here's what you get from google:
>
> 'python -snake': 617,000 pages
> 'php': 9,990,000 pages
>
> I'm not exactly sure what that means, and I didn't waste
> my time looking beyond the first page.  I just strongly
> suspect this is yet another time when the 'pages found'
> count is essentially meaningless.

Searching is an art, not a science.  With Google (searching
WITH the doublequotes, an important little trick!-):

"java language"      -> 112,000
"perl language"      ->  42,500
"pascal language"    ->   8,350
"python language"    ->   9,360
"php language"       ->   5,820
"ruby language"      ->     936
"erlang language"    ->     171

"java programming"   -> 139,000
"perl programming"   ->  69,700
"pascal programming" ->  18,800
"python programming" ->   8,290
"php programming"    ->   8,980
"ruby programming"   ->     156
"erlang programming" ->     192

"java programmer"    ->  38,300
"perl programmer"    ->  14,700
"pascal programmer"  ->   1,960
"python programmer"  ->     928
"php programmer"     ->   1,260
"ruby programmer"    ->       5
"erlang programmer"  ->      18


So, Java's cultural dominance and Perl's secure second
place seem well-confirmed, with PHP and Python below
both, and Ruby and Erlang on a lower step; but from this
one can't tell within experimental error about the
relative ordering of Python and PHP, just as one can't
between Ruby and Erlang.


Anyway, here's one way to do these searches without
too much pain (a rather quick & dirty script):

import urllib, re, locale

google = "http://www.google.com/search?q=%%22%s%%22&num=2"
numres = re.compile('of about <b>([,0-9]+)</b>')

def results(wordlist):
    query = '+'.join(wordlist)
    query_result = urllib.urlopen(google % query)
    for line in query_result.readlines():
        mo = numres.search(line)
        if mo:
            number_string = mo.group(1).replace(',','')
            return int(number_string)
    return 0

def combined(headwords, tailwords):
    longest_result = 0
    table = {}
    for head in headwords:
        table[head] = {}
        for tail in tailwords:
            result = results([head,tail])
            result = locale.format("%d",result,1)
            table[head][tail] = result
            if len(result)>longest_result:
                longest_result = len(result)
    longest_head = max(map(len,headwords))
    longest_tail = max(map(len,tailwords))
    pairs_length = longest_head+longest_tail+4
    format = '%%-%ds %%%ds' % (pairs_length, longest_result)
    for tail in tailwords:
        for head in headwords:
            pair = '"'+head+' '+tail+'"'
            hits = table[head][tail]
            print format % (pair, hits)
        print

def searcher(wordlist):
    separator = wordlist.index('+')
    combined(wordlist[:separator], wordlist[separator+1:])

if __name__=='__main__':
    import sys
    locale.setlocale(locale.LC_NUMERIC, 'US')
    searcher(sys.argv[1:])


So, for example:

D:\AWeb\pick>python sego.py tcl rexx + language programming programmer
"tcl language"      10,300
"rexx language"      3,330

"tcl programming"    2,430
"rexx programming"   2,950

"tcl programmer"       368
"rexx programmer"      149


D:\AWeb\pick>


Alex





From tony at lsl.co.uk  Fri Jan 19 11:41:39 2001
From: tony at lsl.co.uk (Tony J Ibbs (Tibs))
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 16:41:39 -0000
Subject: Python for 8086???
Message-ID: <007301c08236$b2771f50$f05aa8c0@lslp7o.int.lsl.co.uk>

I know I'm going to regret asking this...

OK, folks, don't laugh, but I've just acquired a Toshiba T1000SE (see
the second part of
	http://www.computer-guru.com/diskless.html
for a description - basically it's 8086 based, floppy but no hard disk,
some "hard RAM" to work in, decent keyboard, crap screen), which I'm
using until (one day, hah) we can afford a "real" laptop.

Now, of course, once I'd got a version of emacs going on it (yes, I
know - but that's what my fingers can do), my thoughts turned to Python.
I *know* that's daft, *you* know that's daft, but heh, what can I do?

Unfortunately, the machine seems to be just that little bit too, well,
historical. I wondered if 16python (from the DOS downloads) might work,
but that just hangs the machine, so I guess it's not old enough.

So - does anyone have either a Python that *will* work for such a
machine, or any pointers on how I might build one? (and no, I can put up
with an "early" Python, provided it's post 1.0).

Tibs

--
Tony J Ibbs (Tibs)      http://www.tibsnjoan.co.uk/
My views! Mine! Mine! (Unless Laser-Scan ask nicely to borrow them.)
[I've read it twice. I've thought it over. I'm sending it anyway.]




From grante at visi.com  Fri Jan 19 17:44:37 2001
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 22:44:37 GMT
Subject: Deployment woes (was: I will kill my Python)
References: <mailman.979852022.13720.python-list@python.org> <947r18$rdt$1@news.online.de> <WV0a6.745$eI2.252250@ruti.visi.com> <4DE7F9DB9399A3C1.D96FC6EFB3F2391E.88AD1775E4555FCA@lp.airnews.net>
Message-ID: <pr3a6.945$eI2.263837@ruti.visi.com>

In article <4DE7F9DB9399A3C1.D96FC6EFB3F2391E.88AD1775E4555FCA at lp.airnews.net>, Cameron Laird wrote:
>In article <WV0a6.745$eI2.252250 at ruti.visi.com>,
>Grant Edwards <grante at visi.com> wrote:
>>In article <947r18$rdt$1 at news.online.de>, Nils Hensel wrote:
>>
>>>If an exe is your single concern then perhaps you should better
>>>stick with VB.
>>
>>As if running an exe file generated by VB doesn't require that
>>a whole slew of DLLs and other cruft be installed.  It's no
>>different than Python.
>			.
>			.
>			.
>Is that true?  I thought the VB deployment was worse,
>in that *those* DLLs seem more likely to degrade an
>already-operational Win* host.

Perhaps I should have said that it's no better than Python. 

I too (though I don't use Windows very often) have had DLL
conflicts:  The installer that comes with some VB app replaces
an existing DLL and then other stuff stops working.

At least that's what somebody who understands the vagaries of
Windows told me.  The whole "DLL roulette" game that Windows
users play every time they install something seems a bit
ridiculous.  Under most Unix systems you can install as many
different revisions of a shared library as you want.

My experience distributing Python apps has so far been limited
to a fairly trivial case: I know the target system is Linux,
and I put a note in the man page that you have to have Python
and Tkinter installed.  

Nobody's complained so far, but I have no idea how many people
are actually using the program.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  .. I want to perform
                                  at               cranial activities with
                               visi.com            Tuesday Weld!!


From farmerk at pacbell.net  Mon Jan  8 01:51:58 2001
From: farmerk at pacbell.net (Keith Farmer)
Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2001 22:51:58 -0800
Subject: Python, ADO, VC++ 6
References: <R%966.323$l71.150865@news.pacbell.net> <93bcbj$lfl$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <isd66.374$l71.221175@news.pacbell.net>

"Mark Hammond" <mhammond at my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:93bcbj$lfl$1 at nnrp1.deja.com...
> You should be able to use the COM extensions to use ADO.

The reason I'm not doing the calculations in Python is the sheer number --
in the tens of millions, not counting the trig.  I'm converting the routines
directly to C++ to avoid having to go from Python to DB to looping with
Python and Numpy.  Current run to get the accuracy I need is 5-10 minutes --
I figure I could shorten that up by cutting Python out of the calculation
loop, and provide me with an excuse to learn db programming under C++.

> A quick glance doesn't offer any ideas.  Where exactly does the program
> crash?  You have MSVC, so should be able to get a debuggable version of
> your module.

I'll have to see if I can get the information.




From bram at sara.nl  Tue Jan  2 09:33:27 2001
From: bram at sara.nl (Bram Stolk)
Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2001 15:33:27 +0100
Subject: using 'global' across source files.
References: <3A51CC63.A90A0E0B@sara.nl> <slrn953nf2.pcr.scarblac@pino.selwerd.nl> <3A51E27C.AF8F70B8@sara.nl> <slrn953ok1.pcr.scarblac@pino.selwerd.nl>
Message-ID: <3A51E6B7.82FFE8F4@sara.nl>

Remco Gerlich wrote:
> 
> Bram Stolk <bram at sara.nl> wrote in comp.lang.python:
> >
> > # funcs.py
> >
> > def change_val() :
> >   global val
> >   val = val * 2
> >
> >
> >
> > # prog.py
> >
> > val = 100
> >
> > import funcs
> >
> >
> > funcs.change_val()
> > print val
> 
> You need "print funcs.val" now (just like you call the function with
> "funcs.change_val()).

Huh??
Mind you, 'val' is defined in prog.py, NOT funcs.py.
That's the whole issue I'm trying to solve.

I'm pretty confused now.
Anyway, 'print funcs.val' does not work either, 
besides the error happens BEFORE the print cmd, it
happens in the function change_val(), which cannot 
find the 'val' variable from prog.py.
Nor can it find it, if I prefix it as '__main__.val'.

> 
> Using only import means you have to give the module's name every time,
> but without that Python will never know if the value in the funcs module
> has changed.
> 
> "global" just means "global inside this module".

Well, that's my whole problem.
How do I refer to 'val' if it is in another *unnamed* module?
According to the manuals, it should simply be in the namespace
'__main__', but that doesnt work either.

   Bram
 
> --
> Remco Gerlich

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Bram Stolk, VR Specialist.
 SARA Academic Computing Services Amsterdam, PO Box 94613, 1090 GP  AMSTERDAM
 email: bram at sara.nl   Phone +31-20-5923059  Fax +31-20-6683167

 "I heard if you play the NT-4.0-CD backwards, you get a satanic message."
 "Thats nothing, if you play it forward, it installs NT-4.0"
------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From emile at fenx.com  Sun Jan 14 23:02:00 2001
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 20:02:00 -0800
Subject: Help with Python install
References: <rkp46t8atkoabsmu7v159sm32c0mslp40p@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <93tsoe$bja9b$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>

How about trying the full python2 path in .qmail preceeding
your script file name:

------------------------------------------------
|/big/dom/xthinkspot/thinker/python/Python-2.0/python
/big/dom/xthinkspot/mailtofile.py |vdeliver
------------------------------------------------

--

Emile van Sebille
emile at fenx.com
-------------------


"Sheila King" <sheila at thinkspot.net> wrote in message
news:rkp46t8atkoabsmu7v159sm32c0mslp40p at 4ax.com...
> My web host offers Python 1.5.1. It is not possible for
the host to upgrade at
> this time, because it would require an entire rebuild of
the server core (the
> servers are highly customized).
>
> But I really wanted to use a more recent version. I was
given permission to
> install 2.0 in my own directory space. I have done so, and
it appears to be
> working.
>
> The host is running RedHat Linux with Apache as the
server. Python 1.5.1 is in
> the path, and anyplace I type >python, in any directory,
the interpreter comes
> up.
>
> Even in the directory where I installed 2.0. To get the
2.0 interpreter to
> come up, I have to type the full path. The 2.0 install
seems to be running
> fine. I used the smtplib and sent myself an e-mail. I
added a few numbers.
> Printed some messages to the screen. Looks fine.
>
> However...
>
> I can't get some mail scripts that I had running before
under 1.5.1 to run
> under 2.0.
>
> Using .qmail files I'm invoking these scripts when mail
arrives for my
> account. The contents of my .qmail file are shown below:
> ------------------------------------------------
> |/big/dom/xthinkspot/mailtofile.py |vdeliver
> ------------------------------------------------
>
> So, when a mail arrives, it calls the script mailtofile.py
and runs that, with
> the newly arrived mail being read on stdin.
>
> This is the first version of mailtofile.py:
> ------------------------------------------------
> #! /usr/bin/python
>
> import sys, os
>
> rawmessage = sys.stdin.read()
> outfile = open("./outmessage.txt", "w")
> sys.stdout=outfile
> print rawmessage
> outfile.close()
> os.chmod("./outmessage.txt", 0664)
> ------------------------------------------------
>
> When I send an e-mail, it gets copied to the textfile
outmessage.txt. No
> problem. However, it is running the Python 1.5.1 from my
host.
>
> So, I tried changing it to this:
>
> -----------------------------------------------
> #! /big/dom/xthinkspot/thinker/python/Python-2.0/python
>
> import sys, os
>
> rawmessage = sys.stdin.read()
> outfile = open("./outmessage.txt", "w")
> sys.stdout=outfile
> print rawmessage
> outfile.close()
> os.chmod("./outmessage.txt", 0664)
> ----------------------------------------------
>
> The only thing that has been changed is the path. I have
not changed the file
> name, or anything else. But this doesn't appear to run at
all. Well, the
> .qmail file tries to do something. I do get a blank e-mail
as a result. But
> the python script doesn't appear to do it's thing.
>
> I'm wondering what I need to do? I suppose I need to set
my .bash_profile so
> that my Python 2.0 is added to my path? or my environment?
or something?
>
> Could someone help me out here?
>
>
>
> --
> Sheila King
> http://www.thinkspot.net/sheila/
> http://www.k12groups.org/




From emile at fenx.com  Sat Jan 27 13:31:53 2001
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 10:31:53 -0800
Subject: Python 2.1 slower than 2.0
References: <mailman.980616572.26954.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <94v49b$fhueb$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>

I have a similar configuration but only measure an average
drop from ~3380 to ~3260 over successive runs.

My win2k box, OTOH, using 2.0 on successive runs ranges from
~5600 to ~4000, so I'm not even going to try a comparison
there.

--

Emile van Sebille
emile at fenx.com
-------------------


"Andreas Jung" <andreas at andreas-jung.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.980616572.26954.python-list at python.org...
> pystone.py with Python 2.0: ~3600 Pystones/sec
>                 Python 2.1: ~3000 Pystones/sec
>
> Env. Linux i386, AMD-K2 300 MHz
>
> Is there a reason why 2.1 runs significantly slower ?
> Both Python versions were compiled with -g -O2 only.
>
> Andreas
>
>




From fredrik at effbot.org  Fri Jan 12 03:00:38 2001
From: fredrik at effbot.org (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 08:00:38 GMT
Subject: pattern matching in python
References: <slrn95tbua.h32.quinn@euro.ugcs.caltech.edu>
Message-ID: <GQy76.5650$Qb7.787477@newsb.telia.net>

Quinn Dunkan wrote:
> I recently noticed, that, of course,
>
> def f(a, (x, y), b): ...
>
> works too.  Is this standard, documented behaviour that
> can be relied on?

It's part of the def statement's grammar:

sublist:        parameter ("," parameter)* [","]
parameter:      identifier | "(" sublist ")"

(see http://www.python.org/doc/current/ref/function.html
for the full grammar)

But as far as I can tell, it's not discussed anywhere else in
the language reference.  The "calls" chapter talks alot about
how an argument tuple is formed, but doesn't say anything
about how that tuple is mapped to the function's formal
parameters.

(but it definitely qualifies as "standard behaviour", even
if it's only partially documented.  but iirc, it has been on
the list of things that may change in "Python 3000"...)

Cheers /F




From moshez at zadka.site.co.il  Fri Jan 12 11:29:07 2001
From: moshez at zadka.site.co.il (Moshe Zadka)
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 18:29:07 +0200 (IST)
Subject: Web devel with python. Whats the best route?
In-Reply-To: <93hfp1013sm@news2.newsguy.com>
References: <93hfp1013sm@news2.newsguy.com>, <93cqvi0191h@news1.newsguy.com> <mailman.978910629.6814.python-list@python.org> <mailman.978975978.19612.python-list@python.org> <spenrose-E755EB.22423209012001@news.dnai.com>
Message-ID: <20010112162907.9128FA82D@darjeeling.zadka.site.co.il>

On Wed, 10 Jan 2001, "Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Rather than reinvent loop-syntax &c, I found it simplest to
> embed a for statement in the HTML template, a la:
> 
> +for i in range(len(results)):
>     <TR> <TD><B>@i@</B></TD> <TD>@results[i]@</TD> </TR>
> -
> 
> All the presentation logic goes into the template, all of
> the computation into the Python CGI script, and my little
> yaptu.py (yet another python template utility, of course)
> bridges the gap (with about 50 SLOC's, plus comments,
> docstrings, and test pushing it to a bit over 100 lines).

Another affirmative for my "every Python programmer wrote a web
development framework. Sometimes two."

For those who need the reference: "Every scheme programmer wrote
an object system. Sometimes two."

Equivalents for C/C++/Perl/Java would be appreciated <wink>
-- 
Moshe Zadka <sig at zadka.site.co.il>
This is a signature anti-virus. 
Please stop the spread of signature viruses!



From root at rainerdeyke.com  Fri Jan 26 11:47:30 2001
From: root at rainerdeyke.com (Rainer Deyke)
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 16:47:30 GMT
Subject: python-2.1 function attributes
References: <mailman.980510913.2926.python-list@python.org> <94s180$360$1@animus.fel.iae.nl>
Message-ID: <CShc6.117626$ge4.41468284@news2.rdc2.tx.home.com>

"Carel Fellinger" <cfelling at iae.nl> wrote in message
news:94s180$360$1 at animus.fel.iae.nl...
> "Tony J Ibbs (Tibs)" <tony at lsl.co.uk> wrote:
> >  def f(long_name, even_longer_name, still_longer_name) with \
> >          (publish=1, secure=0, grammar=f_grammar):
> >      """and here is the doc string."""
> >      print "bobbins"
>
> Can we use this second parameter list for closures as well?  Moreover,
> I most definitely would expect to be able to refer to publish etc within
> the function body without having to qualify it with the funtion name.
> And are assignments to those function attributes allowed within the
> function body?

In general, the idea of function attributes seems pretty dumb to me, since
the decorator pattern already allows you to do this:

class Decorator:
  def __init__(self, decorated):
    self.__decorated = decorated
  def __getattr__(self, name):
    return getattr(self.__decorated, name)
  def __call__(self, *args, **kwargs):
    self.__decorated(*args, **kwargs)
  # Override other operators too.

class AttributeDecorator(Decorator):
  def __init__(self, decorated, **attributes):
    self.__dict__.update(attributes)
    Decorator.__init__(self, decorated)

def f():
  pass

f = AttributeDecorator(f, publish=1, secure=0)


However, if these function attributes also act as "static" variables (in the
C sense), the proposal becomes interesting.  It is still redundant (since a
singleton with __call__ can do the same thing), but it could be convenient.

Simply adding the function attribute dictionary into the name search order
between local and global is one possibility.  The new keyword 'static' could
be used, analogous to 'global':

def f():
  static eggs
  eggs = spam

f.spam = 'Eggs and spam'
f()
print f.eggs

However, this would introduce a significant performance penality when
accessing names in the global namespace.  The obvious alternative is to
refer to the function by name:

def f():
  f.eggs = f.spam

This is prone to error where the name of f changes, and requires two lookups
per access, which is slow.


One somewhat radical approach would be to introduce a new keyword which acts
as a variable isn't really one and produces different bytecode, analogous to
C++'s 'this':

def f():
  __func__.eggs = __func__.spam

g = f
f.spam = 'spam and spam, with a side order of spam'
del f
g() # Still works


This '__func__' could also be used for a variety of other purposes.


--
Rainer Deyke (root at rainerdeyke.com)
Shareware computer games           -           http://rainerdeyke.com
"In ihren Reihen zu stehen heisst unter Feinden zu kaempfen" - Abigor




From dalke at acm.org  Thu Jan 11 23:59:09 2001
From: dalke at acm.org (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 21:59:09 -0700
Subject: default arguments newbie question
References: <3A5CD60D.98CFAD33@alcyone.com>, <3a5cccca.77467843@localhost> <93ijpa$asp$1@panix3.panix.com> <mailman.979237275.15163.python-list@python.org> <3A5DFDC2.7CC882A9@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <93m31m$1lc$1@slb7.atl.mindspring.net>

Erik Max Francis asked:
>Sure, you can come up with pathological cases.

Let me point out some other cases.  The __cmp__ might not
be implemented, or it might do some type checking to ensure
it is only compared with other objects of the same type.
(While the latter is sometimes considered in poor taste,
I have found it useful.)

                    Andrew
                    dalke at acm.org





From Dan.Rolander at marriott.com  Mon Jan 22 12:24:20 2001
From: Dan.Rolander at marriott.com (Rolander, Dan)
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 12:24:20 -0500
Subject: [wxPython] Focus Problem
Message-ID: <6176E3D8E36FD111B58900805FA7E0F80CCF6306@mcnc-mdm1-ex01>

Oops! Sent this to the wrong list. Sorry about that folks!

Dan

-----Original Message-----
From: Rolander, Dan 
Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 12:16 PM
To: 'python-list at python.org'
Subject: RE: [wxPython] Focus Problem

[stuff deleted]



From m.j.fisher at ex.ac.uk  Thu Jan 11 11:35:18 2001
From: m.j.fisher at ex.ac.uk (M.J.Fisher)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 16:35:18 +0000
Subject: BSDDB problem
Message-ID: <3A5DE0C6.44E770B8@ex.ac.uk>

Hi,

I am using Python 2.0 on a Linux machine. I wanted to use the bsddb
module to get the information out the Netscape History.dat file. I tried
the following:

import bsddb
hist = bsddb.hashopen('history.dat', 'r')

I got the error:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
bsddb.error: (22, 'Invalid argument')

I have tried creating my own file using bsddb by copying the example
shown in the Python library.

s = bsddb.hashopen('spam.db', 'c')
...
s.close()

And then reading from this file and that works.

I used the 'file' command to compare the file types of the 'spam.db'
that I created and the 'history.dat' file. The 'history.dat' file had
the result:

history.dat: Berkeley DB Hash file (Version 2, Little Endian, Bucket
Size 4096,
Bucket Shift 12, Directory Size 256, Segment Size 256, Segment Shift 8,
Overflow Point 7, Last Freed 1, Max Bucket 122, High Mask 0x7f, Low Mask
0x3f, Fill Factor 57, Number of Keys 1666)

Whereas spam.db got the result:
spam.db : data

I am not sure whether this gives the clue to my problem. I tried using
the 'whichdb' module to determine the module I should use to open both
of these files.

whichdb.whichdb('history.dat')
whichdb.whichdb('spam.db')

and both resulted in the answer 'dbhash'

So I tried using the dbhash module to open history.dat and I got the
same error when I tried to use 'bsddb'.

h = dbhash.open('/home/sheerkahn3/mjfisher/.netscape/history.dat', 'r')
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
  File "/home/sheerkahn3/mjfisher/Python-2.0/Lib/dbhash.py", line 8, in
open
    return bsddb.hashopen(file, flag, mode)
bsddb.error: (22, 'Invalid argument')

Sorry to make this so long winded!!! Thank you in advance for any
suggestions!!!!

Shelley



From le_snelson at transtechinc.cc  Thu Jan  4 20:24:48 2001
From: le_snelson at transtechinc.cc (Le Snelson)
Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 17:24:48 -0800
Subject: Example of handling C callbacks
Message-ID: <3A55225F.4F5E9310@transtechinc.cc>

I have a legacy system which uses an interprocess communications (IPC)
library. It behaves very much like X-windows.  It has its own event loop
and invokes callbacks in the same manner.

What I would like to do is replace one of the processes in the middle of
this network of processes with a Python application.  So, I'm looking
for examples of how to handle C callbacks in extensions.  One thought
I've had is to SWIG the libray interfaces.  This seems fine for sending
messages, but I can't visualize the callback implementation.
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From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Wed Jan 17 09:01:17 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 15:01:17 +0100
Subject: SQL-Statement with Python
References: <3A62E224.7AEE805E@students.uni-linz.ac.at> <93ut4q031hd@news1.newsguy.com> <R2M86.5299$J76.42003@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com> <941jnd0634@news1.newsguy.com> <K4596.1054$DI.17324@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com> <943vlk02jai@news2.newsguy.com> <OPg96.5664$DI.65547@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <9448m70311k@news2.newsguy.com>

"Steve Holden" <sholden at holdenweb.com> wrote in message
news:OPg96.5664$DI.65547 at e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com...
    [snip]
> > recordset, result = connection.Execute(
> >     "SELECT LastName//', '//FirstName"
> >     "  FROM Employees"
> >     "  ORDER BY LastName, FirstName"
> > )
> Interesting to note such stylistic differences. My own preferred notation
> for this statement would be something like:
>
> recordset, result = connection.Execute(
> """SELECT LastName//', '//FirstName
>     FROM Employees
>     ORDER BY LastName, FirstName""")

I definitely don't like the triple quotes adjacent to the
string's substance, although I admit it's nice to avoid
repeating the quotes.  Would you settle for:

recordset, result = connection.Execute("""
    SELECT LastName//', '//FirstName
        FROM Employees
        ORDER BY LastName, FirstName
""")

...?


> > thingy.  My fault.  (Not sure what the 'wish my SQL was that good' quip
is
> > meant for -- IS there some engine that doesnt do such simple things
right?).
> >
> Simply irony. I'm learning to do without it, as it's often misunderstood
in
> the USA, just as sarcasm tends to be mistaken for aggression.

I'm not in the US, but the above shows I'm quite capable of
missing it too (that it was a quip was clear, but I still did
not get the point -- still don't).


> For this type of construct I tend to use the collection syntax -- I should
> emphasise that while I've coded a lot of VBScript I have hardly used VB at
> all.

I think all we're discussing is in both VB _and_ VBScript.


> So my equivalent style (not the same code, since I'm lifting this from an
> existing web page) would be:
    [snip]
> Do While Not RS.EOF %>
>     <tr>
>     <td><a href="FormNews.asp?key=<%=RS("NwsNum")%>">
>         <%=RS("NwsNum")%></a></td>
>     <td>&nbsp;</td><td><%=RS("NwsStart")%> - <%=RS("NwsEnd")%>
>         </td><td><%=RS("NwsHead")%></td>
>     </tr> <%
>     RS.MoveNext
    [snip]
> But this makes each field reference very "bulky": teh recordset name, then
> the field name surrounded by quotes and parentheses.

I don't mind this part, actually -- one could argue it's more
readable.  Given all the HTML/ASP cruft that surrounds the
substance here (and it's pretty typical -- and why I have a
slight stylistic preference for Response.Write), it's not a
bad thing that the substance stands out more.  Plus, names
rather than numeric indices are no bad thing either.  But...

> However, this may well
> not use the GetRows() method at all, and be something quite other than
what
> you are suggesting. I try to avoid looking too far "under the hood" at
this
> stuff.

I tend to, because database performance issues tend to dominate
most DB uses.  Here, you'd better ensure you're getting a client-side
cursor, rather than a server-side one -- I forget if the default
value is certain when not specifying it, but 'explicit is better
than implicit', so, set Connection.CursorLocation to 3 (aka
adUseClient, but one rarely bothers with the symbolic names in
VBScript:-) to ensure client-side buffering &c.

You wouldn't want each MoveNext to have to hit the server again,
I'm sure... with a client-side cursor, you can also keep the
recordset and close the connection, pretty good practice from
a scalability standpoint if you're doing nothing more with it.


> > with the same Python snippet.  But I honestly fail to
> > see any advantage to this abstruse approach -- seems
> > substantially more complex for no performance gain,
> > indeed I suspect it would perform less well (but I
> > have not taken the trouble to time it:-).
> >
> let's-not-optimize-what-doesn't-need-optimizing-ly y'rs  - steve

I suspect we agree -- I was just showing the object wrapper
to ensure it wouldn't be suggested as an alternative in any
followups:-).


Alex





From benh at intelligenesis.net  Fri Jan 12 01:13:09 2001
From: benh at intelligenesis.net (Ben Hutchison)
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 17:13:09 +1100
Subject: is Python fully object oriented ?
References: <20010110184830.13286.00000826@ng-fg1.aol.com> <3A5E5C21.3E036BFE@intelligenesis.net> <3A5E935D.CF641658@dcube-resource.be>
Message-ID: <3A5EA074.D5AF4A98@intelligenesis.net>

I detect a strong whiff of advocacy, but thank you for replying in detail.

Jan Dries wrote:

> Ben Hutchison wrote:
> > 1. Most significantly, Python requires the "self" or "this" reference to be
> > explicitly declared. This seems like a bit of a hassle if you do pure OO
> > development with python; lots of typing!
>
> This is a design choice (the "explicit is better than implicit", one of
> Python's favourite design choices), and as any design choice, a
> compromise.

I'd like to see some primary evidence of this "design choice" process, describing
the motivating reasons. Presumably there are some web references somewhere. My
instinct tell me it resembles an implementation consequence, rather than a free and
deliberate choice.

> About a year
> ago, I discovered Python and have since then written thousands of lines
> of Python code, yet have not once experienced the typing of "self." to
> be overhead,

Im sure you grow used to it, but Im not convinced its preferable. My general
preference, shared by many programmers I suggest, is that extraneous code be
minimized. That also seems to be a theme in pythons design, I notice. Its perfectly
legal to explictly use "this" everywhere in C++/Java if you like it that way, you
just arent forced to.

> > 2. Access control is more informal in Python than C++/Java. I know in the case
> > of Java at least that security provisions depend in part on access control
> > being strictly enforced, and additonally there are a number of design
> > principles that assume 3 tiered (public, protected, private) access levels.
> > * Is Pythons leading underscore mechanism more of a convention?
>
> > * It is strong enough to build security mechanisms on?
>
> Even the C++ support for public/protected/private access is not strong
> enough to enforce security. <snip>

In other words, no. However, Java's is. private members really are very private, and
this gives the programmer design options not available perhaps in Python. IMO, cases
where you simply cant do something, by any technique, in a language, are ones to
watch out for. Possibly python could benefit from a strong private modifier.

>
> > * Can a class declare a priviledged API availalbe only to subclasses?
>
> Here you refer to the notion of protected members.

Id agree the benefit of protected members is dubious. I wont bother contest this
one.

>
> The bottom line, IMO, is that Python has managed here (as with so many
> other aspects of the language) to provide a very simple approach that at
> least in practice is just as effective as the equivalent C++ or Java
> feature,

Except security. And in some domains, where you have someone elses untrusted code
executing, that really does matter. Python can prevent accidental access to private
fields but not a deliberate attempt. When people consider building very large
systems from python, they surely will encounter this barrier. It may prevent pythons
use where it would otherwise be appropriate.

Ben

--
Ben Hutchison
Software Engineer-Market Predictor
Webmind Australia
http://www.webmind.com/productspredictor.html





From fredrik at effbot.org  Fri Jan  5 05:57:05 2001
From: fredrik at effbot.org (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 10:57:05 GMT
Subject: 2001 Enchancement Wishlist
References: <mailman.978691745.14004.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <5Mh56.3820$Qb7.494971@newsb.telia.net>

Simon Brunning wrote:
> Good Lord, I hope you don't mean me!

Oh, not at all -- it was that other guy who didn't under-
stand that words can mean more than one thing.

(...and that if you don't understand anything at first, it's
usually a good idea to read it again.  especially when you're
dealing with non-native speakers -- we're more likely to look
in a dictionary to make sure "arbitrary" really means the same
thing as "godtycklig" ;-)

Cheers /F




From ljz at asfast.com  Wed Jan  3 21:41:03 2001
From: ljz at asfast.com (Lloyd Zusman)
Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 02:41:03 GMT
Subject: why no "do : until"?
References: <92jj3j$ff7$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <slrn94shbe.150.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <X8s36.2731$Qb7.305339@newsb.telia.net> <slrn94smds.150.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <FOt36.17$vd1.2224@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com> <slrn94t1vj.150.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <3A4E95FD.D6C737A7@engcorp.com> <slrn94tqkh.150.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <tpr46.7782$4c.597534@ruti.visi.com> <slrn954h6p.rgv.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <3A52AD6A.62D043A2@engcorp.com> <slrn955o7d.t0c.grey@teleute.rpglink.com>
Message-ID: <ltofxokq6u.fsf@asfast.com>

grey at despair.rpglink.com (Steve Lamb) writes:

> On Tue, 02 Jan 2001 23:41:14 -0500, Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:
> >You are a cowboy-hacker type of programmer, not one working as a serious
> >software engineer in a group environment, right?  Or, if the latter, your
> >management just hasn't caught on yet.
> 
>     Actually, the latter and management has caught on.  They like
> the work I do.  That is because I don't spend days worrying about
> doing it one way or another when the difference is so miniscule that
> it isn't worth worrying over.
>
>     Like I said, how often is the code going to be changed versus
> getting the work done.  Idealism is fine and dandy as long as it
> doesn't get in the way of getting work done.  I'm firmly on the
> bazaar side, not the cathedral.  There is nothing wrong with that
> simple construct.  Nothing.  Only to those who do spend 3 days
> worrying about it instead of moving on to the next few hundreds of
> lines is there something wrong.

I agree that sometimes we can get overly nit-picky and miss the forest
for the trees.  However, I believe that software maintenance issues
are not within the realm of idealism at all, but rather, cold, hard
pragmatism.

I've been programming for over 30 years, and I have done and still do
my share of cowboy-style hacking.  There definitely is a time and a
place for this.  And I confess that the fastest and most enjoyable way
for me to write code is to cowboy-hack it, even though nowadays I only
do this for really quick-and-dirty one time hacks.

However, in addition to this kind of programming, I spend a lot of
time consulting to large corporations who have a staff of programmers
of varying abilities and levels of experience.  And there's a certain
level of turnover that is a normal part of IT departments, and also,
programmers sometimes get reassigned to new projects, get promoted,
get transferred, etc.  So over time, it's almost guaranteed that any
given section of production code will have to be maintained by someone
other than the person who originally wrote it.

And these large corporations have literally millions of lines of
software that are part of hundreds of applications that are constantly
being improved, upgraded, fixed, retired, rewritten, etc.  And I have
seen literally thousands of person-hours wasted when some old "legacy"
code couldn't be fixed or enhanced without an inordinate amount of
effort made in deciphering the intentions of the original programmers.

There's plenty of good code out there, but it's the bad code like this
which causes millions of dollars worth of person-hours to be expended
in trying to maintain it.  I am not exaggerating.  And so, there
definitely is a big, practical advantage that can be measured in
millions of dollars that can be gained by writing code that can easily
be maintained by the people who inherit it from the original authors.

And this is why I always try to be responsible and write code that's
maximally likely to be understood by someone with less experience than
I have, even though this means I lose some of the enjoyment of being a
cowboy most of the time.

Now, I'm not suggesting that we all become anal retentive.  As I
mentioned above, I agree that it's possible to be overly nit-picky and
miss the whole point.

I personally agree that the most clear and maintainable way to signal
an initial loop condition or a loop termination would not involve
initializing a variable that's used and changed within the loop to a
supposed out-of-range value.  The possible errors mentioned by the
others here are more likely to crop up in this scenario, especially
when a someone other than the original programmer has to start
maintaining the code.

But whether this is a deadly sin or not is another matter.  I can
think of certain restricted cases where it wouldn't be the end of the
world to do this, especially in short loops where this usage is being
clearly commented.  I wouldn't do this myself, but neither would I
fire a programmer if he or she wanted to code this way once in a
while, under the limited types of circumstances I mentioned.

But when working as a project leader in one of the large corporations
I've mentioned above, I would indeed fire (or refrain from hiring) an
otherwise good programmer who refused to make the effort to use
software constructs that facilitate the future maintainability of his
or her code.  As an employee of such a corporation, I would be causing
the company to lose lots of money if I allowed such a programmer to
work for the company.  And that would be irresponsible of me.



>     "Well, concpetually the variable means two things, blah, blah,
> blah, yap, yap, yap, yadda, yadda, yadda, yank, yank, yank."  I
> think my favorite was that one shouldn't init variables to arbitrary
> values.  I laughed a good few minutes for that one.  Should one init
> variables only to /random/ values?  That's the whole point of
> initing a variable, to set to to a known, arbitrary, value.

But you know damn well that the person who said that was not using the
word "arbitrary" as you're using it above, and therefore, you're
deliberately playing with words here, just to be argumentative.


>     It is like the people who are complaining about a valid while
> 1:break loop because it isn't obvious to the newbie maintainer.  Do
> you want a newbie maintaining your code in the first place?  No.  Do
> you want someone who is more worried about perfection in the code
> than working code?  No.

I agree: I neither want a newbie, nor a person who is more worried
about some platonic ideal of perfection than about creating practical,
working code.  But neither would I want someone who adamantly refuses
to make the effort to write code that is clear and easily maintainable
by the next good programmer who comes along to work on it.


>     Am I a "cowboy-hacker type of programmer?"  Better than either
> of the two extremes, so... yes.  

But as I stated above, those two extremes are not the only two
alternatives to being a "cowboy-hacker".  The third alternative (I
repeat) is to be a good programmer who is willing and able to write
code that can be quickly and easily understood and maintained by the
next good programmer who comes along.  There are plenty of programmers
like this in the world, and so if you came to me looking for a job,
you would lose out to someone else whose programming abilities are
equal to yours, but who also demonstrates that he or she understands
the importance of writing maintainable code.


-- 
 Lloyd Zusman
 ljz at asfast.com


From duncan.booth at lineone.net  Thu Jan 25 06:18:28 2001
From: duncan.booth at lineone.net (Duncan Booth)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 11:18:28 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: python-2.1 function attributes
References: <ul3snm8dfae.fsf@smaug.fsl.noaa.gov> <m3n1cgzvpj.fsf@atrus.jesus.cam.ac.uk> <ul3ofwwddsy.fsf@smaug.fsl.noaa.gov> <mailman.980396369.12407.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Xns903472CE5CAduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

Paul Prescod <paulp at ActiveState.com> wrote in 
<mailman.980396369.12407.python-list at python.org>:

>Mike Romberg wrote:
>> 
>> ...
>> 
>>   The second syntax proposed in pep 232 does not strike me as
>> elegant.  But, it does seem to be consistant with doc strings in that
>> they are defined (but not referenced) first thing in the function
>> definition:
>> 
>> def spam():
>>     """The doc string."""
>>     { 'attribute1' : 'val1', 'attribute2' : val2 }
>>     pass
>
>I proposed a similar syntax to Guido a couple of years ago and he
>pointed out that it is unclear whether "val2" should be evaluated in the
>runtime context of spam() or in the global context. The former is what
>the syntax suggests but the latter is the only way to have the feature
>work properly.
>
> Paul Prescod
>

How about something along the following lines?

__attributes__= { 'attribute1' : 'val1', 'attribute2' : val2 }
def spam():
    """The doc string."""
    pass

The idea being that if __attributes__ is set when defining a function, the 
value is used to initialise the function attributes and then deleted.
This has the advantage of keeping the attributes close to the top of the 
function, but making the context in which they are evaluated obvious.



From romberg at smaug.fsl.noaa.gov  Wed Jan 24 01:02:18 2001
From: romberg at smaug.fsl.noaa.gov (Mike Romberg)
Date: 23 Jan 2001 23:02:18 -0700
Subject: I mean *setup.py* ! ... (more questions)
References: <mailman.980277285.14781.python-list@python.org> <3d3dea3vuh.fsf@ute.cnri.reston.va.us>
Message-ID: <ul3ofwxij2t.fsf@smaug.fsl.noaa.gov>

>>>>> " " == Andrew Kuchling <akuchlin at mems-exchange.org> writes:

[snip]

     > Right now the only way to fiddle with setup.py is to edit it,
     > and submit patches back.  I'm planning to have some
     > command-line switches in the next alpha.


  Is there some way to persuade setup.py to look for libraries and
header files (used to build things like _tkinter) in places the
compiler normally does not?  I found that the build_ext command will
take -I and -L switches.  But the build command does not seem to like
them.  For now, is just editing the lib_dirs and inc_dirs arguments to
detect_tkinter() the way to do this?

Thanks,

Mike Romberg (romberg at fsl.noaa.gov)


From ommadawn at club-internet.fr  Wed Jan 10 05:32:05 2001
From: ommadawn at club-internet.fr (Christophe Prevost)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 10:32:05 -0000
Subject: Problems with zipfile module...
Message-ID: <93ha6j$ca6$1@reader1.imaginet.fr>

Hi,

I've python 2.0, zlib etc... and when i try to use zipfile i've some
problems

for fch in lch:
 if fch == sys.argv[0]: continue
 print fch
 dt = time.mktime(time.gmtime(os.path.getmtime(fch)))
 if dt < veryold:
  cpt += 1
  if cpt == 1:
   backup = zipfile.ZipFile(zip, "w", "ZIP_DEFLATED")
  backup.write(fch)
if cpt != 0:
 backup.close()
---
Raise:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "backup.py", line 16, in ?
    backup = zipfile.ZipFile(zip, "w", "ZIP_DEFLATED")
  File "d:\python\lib\zipfile.py", line 104, in __init__
    raise RuntimeError, "That compression method is not supported"
RuntimeError: That compression method is not supported ZIP_DEFLATED
Exception exceptions.AttributeError: "'ZipFile' instance has no attribute
'fp'" in <method ZipFile.__del__ of ZipFile instance at 00914FDC> ignored

PS: It doesn't append when i use the default compression level (not using
zlib)...
backup = zipfile.ZipFile(zip, "w")




From scarblac at pino.selwerd.nl  Wed Jan 10 08:03:56 2001
From: scarblac at pino.selwerd.nl (Remco Gerlich)
Date: 10 Jan 2001 13:03:56 GMT
Subject: Problem with __del__
References: <3A5B6434.2BD6FEF6@mail.dvz.fh-koeln.de> <1OJ66.4624$AH6.762498@newsc.telia.net> <r3N66.1718$_e7.114959@news2.atl>
Message-ID: <slrn95on74.5ad.scarblac@pino.selwerd.nl>

Joel Ricker <joejava at dragonat.net> wrote in comp.lang.python:
> I guess I could chime in with my question.  What is the proper
> implementation of deleting objects once you are done with them.  Thats
> probably the one part of the objects section of the tutorial  that I wasn't
> sure about. Wouldn't you want a destructor to do things for cleanup or would
> just implement it differently like this:
> 
> def deleteme(self)
>     dosomething();
>     del self

The 'del self' here does nothing. All that del does is delete the name
self from the local namespace, but that would have happened anyway at the
end of the function. If another variable somewhere still has a reference
to the object, it's not deleted.

Python keeps track of the amount of references that exist to an object. If
this reaches 0, the object is deleted. Although the current implementation
calls __del__ then, this is not guaranteed. It's better to do any cleanup
you need explicitly (but there's no need to free memory and so on, that is
automatic).

A thing to watch out for is cyclical references. If two objects keep
references to each other, or there is a larger ring of objects so you
can go in circles following the references, then they will never be
destroyed by this mechanism. Python 2.0 has an optional garbage collector
which will find isolated groups like this and delete them, but it doesn't
call __del__ when it does (since it's not possible to determine a good order
to call them in).

You don't usually need a lot of cleanup, but if you do it's best to do it
explicitly - that's more readable as well, of course :).

-- 
Remco Gerlich




From donn at u.washington.edu  Tue Jan 23 16:50:08 2001
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: 23 Jan 2001 21:50:08 GMT
Subject: Compiling Python 2.0 in DEC Alpha?
References: <slrn96r2j8.g68.pekko@soul.helsinki.fi> <94kg34$glk$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu> <slrn96rqtf.l3v.pekko@tekno.helsinki.fi>
Message-ID: <94kuag$lr2$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>

Quoth pekko at iki.fi (Pekko Piirola):
[... problems on Digital UNIX 4.0F ...]
| Thanks, it compiles now!  The problems were the flag '-std' and the
| conflicting thread definitions.  But they really told me to use all of
| those thread options in the README..

Yes, afterwards I noticed that, too - in 2.1 alpha.

	Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu


From cobrien at Radix.Net  Sat Jan 27 08:27:09 2001
From: cobrien at Radix.Net (Cary O'Brien)
Date: 27 Jan 2001 08:27:09 -0500
Subject: sockets: client dies...
References: <94kmt5$cuj$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <3A6F8AB1.BDF23F5D@home.com> <94pj8n$jfl$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <94pn5h$t3e$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <94uibd$t8c$1@saltmine.radix.net>

In article <94pn5h$t3e$1 at nntp6.u.washington.edu>,
Donn Cave  <donn at u.washington.edu> wrote:
>Quoth Keith Murphy <kpmurphy at my-deja.com>:
>| ok here's what i understand.

[snip discussion of socket programming approaches]

>
>To reiterate:  When the client dies, the connection will close.
>When the connection has closed, recv() will return an empty string,
>length == 0.
>

Depends on what you mean by dies.  If the process at the other end
terminates and the operating system thereunder operates correctly,
you're right, the TCP session will close and recv() will return
an empty string.

But if you're talking to a PC, and they just shut it off, or the DSL
line goes down or someone picks up the phone on the modem line or
something your end won't know that for a *LONG* time.  So your recv()
may hang.

Just thought I'd bring that up.

[snip ditto]

reliving-painfull-episodes-of-past-jobs-ly yours



From aahz at panix.com  Thu Jan  4 10:57:29 2001
From: aahz at panix.com (Aahz Maruch)
Date: 4 Jan 2001 07:57:29 -0800
Subject: list operation '+= ' or assignment problem
References: <fXV46.83554$A06.2935629@news1.frmt1.sfba.home.com> <xX_46.2919$AH6.516601@newsc.telia.net>
Message-ID: <9326h9$4b7$1@panix6.panix.com>

In article <xX_46.2919$AH6.516601 at newsc.telia.net>,
Fredrik Lundh <fredrik at effbot.org> wrote:
>Joe Smith wrote:
>>
>> I guess that list assignment is an assignment of the reference
>> to the object and it does not copy the object.  Where as a
>> string object gets copied.
>
>Alex: No.
>Erno: No.
>Greg: Yes, in a way.
>Steve: Yes.
>Tim: No.
>
>time for a poll? ;-)

No, but I'll explain why some people are saying "yes":

foo = "abc"
bar = foo
bar += "d"

bar now contains a reference to "abcd", which is a copy of the original
string "abc" plus the additional letter "d".  Joe's usage of "copy" is
misleading and somewhat incorrect in a Python context, but it's not
completely out of the blue, either.
-- 
                      --- Aahz (Copyright 2000 by aahz at pobox.com)

Androgynous poly kinky vanilla queer het    <*>     http://www.rahul.net/aahz/
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6

"This is Usenet.  We're all masturbating in public places."  -DH


From rwklee at home.com  Sat Jan 20 17:10:40 2001
From: rwklee at home.com (Rick Lee)
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 22:10:40 GMT
Subject: IDE Debugger breakpoints inside a thread?
Message-ID: <3A6A0CE0.271E8A76@home.com>

IDE debugger breakpoints set inside a thread don't seem to get hit.  I
tried that in PythonWin, IDLE in WinNT, and MacPython IDE, with similar
results.  (all running Python 2.0)

Am I missing something?  Do I have to go back to basics, like pdb?
(Yuk!)

- Rick Lee



From claird at starbase.neosoft.com  Fri Jan  5 08:44:35 2001
From: claird at starbase.neosoft.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: 5 Jan 2001 07:44:35 -0600
Subject: Newbie Question - Hex to floating point conversion
References: <mailman.978684186.8107.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <C0B877F93FAF7AE4.712E0F64846C3B8E.2D16288266AE456D@lp.airnews.net>

In article <mailman.978684186.8107.python-list at python.org>,
Tim Peters <tim.one at home.com> wrote:
>[sb]
>> Is there an easy way to convert 4 byte floating point numbers in IEEE
>> format to they're decimal equivalents?
>>
>> EX.: BF 00 00 00 =  -0.5
>
>Not really, but if you're running on IEEE-754 hardware and your native C
>compiler maps "float" to 4-byte IEEE-754 floats, you can build (or read from
>file, or ...) a 4-byte string containing those bytes and ask Python's std
>struct module (see the docs) to interpret it as a C float (use struct's "f"
>format code).
>
>For example, here on a WinTel box:
>
>>>> struct.unpack(">f", "\xbf\0\0\0")
>(-0.5,)
>>>>
>
>The ">" in the format string forces unpack to treat the bytes as a
>big-endian stream; without that, struct uses the native platform convention,
>which on WinTel happens to be little-endian:
>
>>>> struct.unpack("f", "\xbf\0\0\0")
>(2.6764800668604006e-043,)
>>>>
>
>A denormal probably isn't what you expected -- so if you see stuff like that
>happening, remember that you were warned about the cause <wink>.
>
>

Cogent examples.  It *is* possible, of course, to
synthesize an (abstract, and therefore portable)
algorithm to accomodate all these cases.  As one
who last needed to do so professionally about thir-
teen years ago, I can testify that these arithmetic
algorithms surprise civilians by their length and
tediousness.  It takes a fair amount of care to get
something as apparently simple as decimal represen-
tation right.  If at all possible, let us leave it
to hardware, regarded as a gift from The Great Beyond.
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at NeoSoft.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://starbase.neosoft.com/~claird/home.html


From tim.one at home.com  Wed Jan 10 14:31:22 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 14:31:22 -0500
Subject: Reading Microsoft Outlook Express .dbx files
In-Reply-To: <h7_66.8949$X3.91000@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCKENHIHAA.tim.one@home.com>

[posted & mailed]

[Steve Holden]
> In my trek through the various mail packages the Windoze user may be
> confronted with I am currently battling with Outlook Express.
> It's actually rather better than I feared.

Hint:  The undocumented Ctrl+F3 brings up a box with the actual raw email,
headers and MIME separators and all (only in OE; Outlook doesn't support
this, and AFAICT Outlook doesn't even save the original stream).

> Its native folder format appears to be a ".dbx" file, about which
> I have no information.

Also undocumented.

> Does any reader have experience with either reading these files, or
> automating OEx to provide them to a Python program in RFC822-style
> formats?

Check out this pragmatic reverse-engineering:

    http://sourceforge.net/projects/mbx2mbox/

    Converts Outlook .mbx and .dbx files into standard RFC822
    mail files.  Mailboxes from newer versions of Outlook and
    Outlook express may not be supported.

If you ever have to deal with Outlook .pst format, though, that's black
magic at a whole 'nother level, using both undocumented compression and
undocumented encryption schemes.  Never found anything that understands
.pst.  Best way to convert Outlook msgs to std form I ever found was to
*mail* Outlook msgs, as attachments, from Outlook to a Unixish client, and
pick them apart on the receiving end.

no-actual-need-to-break-the-code-ly y'rs  - tim




From banksam at swanhill.net.au  Wed Jan 31 14:56:11 2001
From: banksam at swanhill.net.au (banksam at swanhill.net.au)
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 19:56:11 GMT
Subject: Installing Mandrake 7.2
References: <3a786a5a.162938@news.ruralnet.net.au>
Message-ID: <3a786dbb.1027608@news.ruralnet.net.au>

On Wed, 31 Jan 2001 19:47:34 GMT, banksam at swanhill.net.au wrote:

>When installing it crashed at the stage of making a boot floppy.  This
>happened several times so then we tried a text install and skipped the
>floppy.  That worked.  Then we tried making the floppy from within
>Linux.  That crashed.  We tried formatting a floppy.  That worked ok.
>Then we tried making a boot disk again.  The system crashed.  So we
>tried making a boot disk manually with 
>
>dd if=/boot/vmlinuz2.2....  of=dev/fd0 bs=8192 
>
>I know this works.  I've done it before.  But the system I am talking
>about crashed and then wouldn't reboot.
>
>Has anyone else had similar problems?  Has anyone found a solution??
>
>Arthur


Sorry.  Absent mindedness.  Sent to the wrong group.



From jmurray at agyinc.com  Thu Jan 25 13:54:19 2001
From: jmurray at agyinc.com (Joe Murray)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 10:54:19 -0800
Subject: Help for DCOracle examples
References: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0101201422310.13495-100000@fep132.fep.ru> <3A6A415B.D83D6173@cnri.reston.va.us> <t6r9s7thmn2256@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <3A70765B.637ADDCE@agyinc.com>

On a related DCOracle note...

I am having problems Connecting to a database using DCOracle from a
Python CGI script.  I get the following error in my httpd logs:

OCI_ERROR at oci_8.c:275
Error while trying to retrieve text for error ORA-12545

A code snippet follows:

    try:
        db = DCOracle.Connect('oracleuser/oraclepassword')
        return HTMLgen.Paragraph('Connected to DB.')
    except:  
        return HTMLgen.Paragraph('Connection to DB DENIED!')

Peculiar thing follows:

Script works from command line (ie, connects to OracleDB no problem). 
But not via browser... hmmm.  Is there some permissions problem I'm
missing?

Thanks,

joe


Jose Martin wrote:
> 
> import Buffer, oci_, sys <===   Error     Must Import DCOracle
> dbc=Connect("weiming/weiming")
> c=dbc.cursor()
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> try this...
> 
> import DCOracle
> dbc=DCOracle.Connect(connectstring)
> 
> cur=dbc.cursor()
> 
> cur.execute('SELECT TABLE_NAME FROM TABS')
> res=cur.fetchall()
> 
> for table in res:
>         print table[0]
> 
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

-- 
Joseph Murray
Bioinformatics Specialist, AGY Therapeutics
290 Utah Avenue, South San Francisco, CA 94080
(650) 228-1146



From embed at NO_SPAM_PLEASE.geocities.com  Wed Jan  3 16:43:42 2001
From: embed at NO_SPAM_PLEASE.geocities.com (Warren Postma)
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2001 16:43:42 -0500
Subject: embedded python -memory usage-by-types
Message-ID: <Q3N46.13355$t3.31349@tor-nn1.netcom.ca>

A while back there was someone working on a memory usage debugging hack.  Is
anybody still working on this.

Output could be something like this:


Object                  Instances             Memory Usage (kb)
---------               -------------       ---------------------
String                       5000                 1100 kb
Interned Strings        900                    500 kb
Integer                     8000                  900 kb
Classes                    900                     400 kb
Instances                 1200                   1800kb
...
...

I have thought that some of the debugging features in Py 1.5.2 could be used
to build this information, especially when Py_TRACE_REFS is defined.

The dump_counts() function in pyobject.c is darn close, and I'm using it to
start me on my way.

Has anyone implemented something like this?  Anything more advanced either?

Warren Postma
ZTR Control Systems





From victor at prodigy.net  Fri Jan  5 22:19:41 2001
From: victor at prodigy.net (Victor Muslin)
Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2001 03:19:41 GMT
Subject: newbie : edit sys.path on WinNT
References: <9339sf$fit$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <3a5566ce.135370111@newnews.prodigy.net>

What you probably want to do is create an environmental variable PYTHONPATH and
stick the name of the directory into it. This can be done via Control Panel and
double clicking on the System icon and then choosing an Environment tab in the
dialog box. After you do this you want to restart your python and any console
windows from which you invoke it.

On Fri, 05 Jan 2001 02:00:49 GMT, buster2642 at my-deja.com wrote:

>I just installed NumPy16_152 into my 'D:\Program Files\Python' folder.
>How do I "permanently" add this to sys.path so 'import Numeric'
>succeeds?  I may or may not have admin access to the NT box to do this..
>
>(http://sourceforge.net/projects/numpy has NumPy zip archives for
>Python 1.52/1.6/2.0 on Win32)
>
>Thanks
>
>Chuck
>
>
>Sent via Deja.com
>http://www.deja.com/



From sandj.williams at gte.net  Mon Jan 22 20:12:21 2001
From: sandj.williams at gte.net (Steve Williams)
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 01:12:21 GMT
Subject: How do I know all thrown exceptions of a function?
References: <g3lb49.73s.ln@127.0.0.1> <94d93h$55d$1@troll.powertech.no> <mailman.980059223.25947.python-list@python.org> <Qeya6.7932$AH6.1260668@newsc.telia.net> <3A6B24F0.EA164698@gte.net> <94icr2$6kv$1@animus.fel.iae.nl>
Message-ID: <3A6CDBDA.C3120F98@gte.net>

Carel Fellinger wrote:

> Steve Williams <sandj.williams at gte.net> wrote:
> ...
> > Catching exceptions thrown by imported classes is not easy, simple or clear,
> > IMHO.  The  solution requires a technique (adding the exception name to the
> > import statement) that is not common in Python documentation or examples.
>
> I'm not sure  I fully understand you, but something like the following
> seems common in Python:
>
> Module somelib:
>
>    class Error(Exception):
>         pass
>
>    def somefunc():
>        '''does something
>           beware, could raise Error
>        '''
>        raise Error
>
> Module MyProg:
>
>    import somelib
>
>    try:
>         somelib.somefunc()
>    except somelib.Error:
>         'do something about it'
> --
> groetjes, carel

Ah yes, but ftplib (and the example in the code and in Beazley) does the
following:

Module somelib:

   myError = "baderror"

   class Error(Exception):
        pass

   def somefunc():
       '''does something
          beware, could raise myError
       '''
       raise myError

Module MyProg:

   from somelib import somefunc

   try:
        somelib.somefunc()
   except somelib.myError:
        'do something about it'

Not at all the same thing.





From zope at thewebsons.com  Fri Jan 26 11:36:51 2001
From: zope at thewebsons.com (Ben Ocean)
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 08:36:51 -0800
Subject: Problems with Install
Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.0.20010126083542.009e3290@mail.earthlink.net>

Hi;
I'm at a loss to understand why I can't get python working. I had it 
working before I moved my server. I re-installed it from src and typed 
*python* and got a prompt. I was ecstatic. So I went to re-install Zope and 
that installation failed. So I typed in *python* again and got
bash: python: command not found
How is that? It was just there! Where did it go? So I ripped out everything 
that had to do with python on my server and started over. When I got to 
*make* I got this error:

make[1]: *** [myreadline.o] Error 1
make[1]: Leaving directory `/apache/vhosts/Python-1.5.2/Parser'
make: *** [Parser] Error 2

It repeated with *make install* What am I missing? Also, I may have made a 
bad mistake in deleting everything python in my box, please advise. Running 
RedHat 6.2.
TIA,BenO 




From tjreedy at udel.edu  Thu Jan 18 18:19:47 2001
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 18:19:47 -0500
Subject: what happens when cookies get too big?
References: <mailman.979830522.31537.python-list@python.org> <9476s4015ti@news2.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <947tl8$ehc$1@news.udel.edu>

> But if it gets above reasonable thresholds, you may want to keep it
> server-side and use the cookie just as a (small!) key to retrieve it.
> I don't think you should encode all THAT much data into cookies: they're
> a session-state management mechanism, after all, not a 'data store':).

And some of us ocassionally delete them.




From tdelaney at avaya.com  Wed Jan 10 23:46:41 2001
From: tdelaney at avaya.com (Delaney, Timothy)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 15:46:41 +1100
Subject: why no "do : until"?
Message-ID: <B43D149A9AB2D411971300B0D03D7E8B0FBD8C@natasha.auslabs.avaya.com>

Alex Martelli, notice where you went wrong ...

You proposed

	loop:
		something
	while condition:
		something else

and got shot down in flames. However,

	do:
		something
	while condition:
		something else

seems to be garnering support.

You fool! You should have known that "loop" was a hated word ;)

Seriously, either of these would work for me. However, I agree that the
biggest drawback is that when you encounter a "while" you don't immediately
know what is going on. Let's look at the other "paired" keywords:

try:
except:

You always know if you see an except: that there is a try: above it
somewhere.

try:
finally:

You always know that if you see a finally: that there is a try: above it
somewhere.

You always know that if you see a try: there is an except: or finally: below
it somewhere. You also know that there *may* be more than one except:, but
that they must immediately follow each other - there can be no outdenting
between them.

With this proposal, if you see a while: you know there *may* be a loop: (or
do: - I prefer loop:) above it, but there *doesn't have to be*. Personally,
I find this a fairly minimal problem though as, with an except, you only
need to go up to the first line with the same or lesser indentation as the
while:.

Tim Delaney
Avaya Australia
+61 2 9352 9079

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Andrew Henshaw
> [mailto:andrew_dot_henshaw_at_earthling_dot_net at python.org]
> Sent: Thursday, 11 January 2001 2:47 PM
> To: python-list at python.org
> Subject: Re: why no "do : until"?
> 
> 
> 
> <gregory_wilson at my-deja.com> wrote in message
> news:93i12s$ul5$1 at nnrp1.deja.com...
> >
> > > Can someone point me at an explanation of the logic for not having
> > > do:
> > > until
> >
> > A proposal I floated a year ago, based on feedback from students in
> > the Python course I teach, was:
> >
> >     do:
> >       first-half
> >     while cond:
> >       second half
> >
> ...snip...
> 
> I almost like this, but it appears to me that it could be a 
> maintenance
> headache.  If you have a significant amount of code done in 
> 'first-half'
> then it would be easy for someone inspecting your code to focus on
> 
> while cond:
>     second half
> 
> as being an entire loop, not realizing that control was 
> returning to the top
> of the loop way up in the code.  This would mean that every 
> time you looked
> at a while loop that was below an indented block, you'd have 
> to check the
> top of that indent for a 'do:' statement.
> 
> I wish I could make a counter-proposal; because, as I said, I 
> almost like
> this idea.
> 
> Andrew Henshaw
> 
> 
> -- 
> http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 



From sholden at holdenweb.com  Thu Jan 11 08:13:03 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 08:13:03 -0500
Subject: ActivePython2.0 - Server Side objects for ASP problem
References: <93j0qi$7cv$1@bob.news.rcn.net> <tK876.2719$24.38513@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com> <93k6k5$1g7$1@bob.news.rcn.net>
Message-ID: <9li76.10661$X3.66765@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>

"Satheesh Babu" <vsbabu at erols.com> wrote in message
news:93k6k5$1g7$1 at bob.news.rcn.net...
> Hi Steve,
>
> That worked! Thanks...
>
Great. You have to be careful in ASP, since so many things you meet in the
environment appear to have the right properties and behavior.  Then you use
them in the wrong context, and BOOM (as you discovered).

> My actual requirement is not to gather HTML pages (I've one for that in
100%
> python ASP
> and by setting a BASE HREF, it works fine). I have this proprietary
software
> from a vendor
> which runs a server on some port and it accepts some commands on that
port.

Aha, so this was just an experiment.

> My requirement
> is to generate these commands on the fly, send it to this server and get
> response, from many
> ASP pages. I don't know how to do network programming in ASP/VBScript. In
> Python I've
> already written something which works, using socket library. My initial
> thought was to embed
> that Python code into my ASP scripts - won't work since ASP (atleast my
> installation) doesn't
> allow mixing of different languages.

Shurely shome mishtake: you are mixing VBScript and Python in the example
you gave! Or do you mean that communications between the languages is
problematical?

>                                                     Making a COM object on
the server is
> also beyond me.

If you get a copy of Mark Hammond and Andy Robinson's "Python Programming on
Win32" you'll be doing it before bedtime and thinking nothing of it.
Seriously, it's a lot less complicated than you might imagine.

> So, I got this idea and was just checking it out.
>
> Many thanks again
>
Always happy to help.

except-when-i'm-not-really-helping-ly y'rs  - steve




From pehr at pehr.net  Sun Jan 21 15:46:07 2001
From: pehr at pehr.net (pehr)
Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 20:46:07 GMT
Subject: Python on Palm OS ?
References: <87pujkls6t.fsf@gabriel.heim6.tu-clausthal.de> <XQJT5.79294$4U6.3187359@news1.rdc2.on.home.com>
Message-ID: <3A6B4A8C.4040500@pehr.net>

Frank Z. Gligic wrote:

> Folks,
> 
> Is there a Python port for Palm OS ?
> If not, are there any plans to do so ?
> 
> Regards,
> Frank


There is a project to put python on PalmOS,
however, the resources included on a palm
pilot will not really let you get very far.

I have two suggestions:
#1. For now, lear lisp and uset the mature LispMe program (listed on 
http://palmgear ). LispMe is a robust and well designed lisp interpreter
in less space that we will ever fit a python VM.

#2. Long term (6months?) get a linux-based PDA. Several companies are
producing or about to produce these.  A list is available at
http://linuxdevices.com which includes the Compaq iPaq,
http://agendacomputing.com and http://yopy.com
The yopy has dev kits for around $790 availabe soon (today?)
and agendacomputing has been promising to ship development
units for around $250 in an attempt to boost development
before they do a release early this year.

AgendaComputing's software will also run on the iPaq, available today.
All these linux-based machines will have the resources to run a *real*
python interpreter which accepts python source, as well as python object 
code.

Hope this helps.

	-pehr



From andreas at andreas-jung.com  Mon Jan 15 06:41:50 2001
From: andreas at andreas-jung.com (Andreas Jung)
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 12:41:50 +0100
Subject: Netscape Enterprise Server 4.1
In-Reply-To: <3A62DC37.5A5A5294@eurodyn.com>; from Vasilis.Giannikopoulos@eurodyn.com on Mon, Jan 15, 2001 at 01:17:11PM +0200
References: <3A62DC37.5A5A5294@eurodyn.com>
Message-ID: <20010115124150.C2641@yetix.sz-sb.de>

On Mon, Jan 15, 2001 at 01:17:11PM +0200, Vasilis Giannikopoulos wrote:
> Does anyone know if a Python script that is now running on Apache could
> also run on Netscape Enterprise Server 4.1 without modifications or run
> at all?

When this script uses the CGI environment then there should
be no problem.

Andreas



From sheila at thinkspot.net  Wed Jan 17 02:27:03 2001
From: sheila at thinkspot.net (Sheila King)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 07:27:03 GMT
Subject: Script performance: Filtering email
References: <nu386t8g081r90fskfbsnvqvrjf3a1egkf@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <p9ia6t8vcfhm5andu6jhitsveesr3asi31@4ax.com>

Found my bug. The original code is show below. The correction follows.

On Tue, 16 Jan 2001 01:18:19 -0800, Sheila King <sheila at thinkspot.net>  wrote
about [Tutor] Script performance: Filtering email:

: ##check if to: and cc: addresses are in my approved file
: def goodmessage(addresseeslist, rcptlist):
:      for addr in addresseeslist:
:           for rcpt in rcptlist:
:                if (upper(addr[1]) == upper(rcpt)):
:                     return 1
:      return 0


Correction:

def goodmessage(addresseeslist, rcptlist):
	for addr in addresseeslist:
		for rcpt in rcptlist:
			if (string.upper(addr[1]) == string.upper(rcpt)):
				return 1
	return 0


Note this line, especially:

if (string.upper(addr[1]) == string.upper(rcpt)):



--
Sheila King
http://www.thinkspot.net/sheila/
http://www.k12groups.org/


From benc at rehame.com  Thu Jan 11 19:07:03 2001
From: benc at rehame.com (Ben Catanzariti)
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 11:07:03 +1100
Subject: Python and Industry
References: <20010111172342.10148.00000934@ng-ca1.aol.com>
Message-ID: <ovhl39.k1b.ln@mail>

Hi,

You may be interested in this

http://www.python.org/psa/Users.html


"Crutoy" <crutoy at aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010111172342.10148.00000934 at ng-ca1.aol.com...
> Hi , does anyone know how widly in an instries does python being used ? I
> looked at the syntax of it and read some stuff on it,it's interested i
just
> want to know if it's worth learning it. Thanks




From tim.one at home.com  Sun Jan 28 16:38:23 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 16:38:23 -0500
Subject: . Python 2.1 function attributes
In-Reply-To: <950j3l01se5@news2.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCKENIILAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Tim, replying to Clarence, who "was somewhat amazed at the addition
 of print>>, and I assure you that I will never use it"
]
> would-be-more-impressed-by-the-damnation-of-people-who've-actually-
>     tried-it-ly y'rs  - tim

[Alex Martelli]
> Would you?

Of course.  You would too; so would most people.  The testimony of one
person who tried a thing and found it lacking is more compelling than 100
virgins speculating about why they're certain they would despise it if only
they could bear stooping low enough to try it <wink>.  There's also the
telling fact that Guido rejected Barry's print>> proposal before giving it a
test drive in his own code -- pure argument never had much to do with this
one.

> OK, assuming this is not just cheap rhetoric, then:

Na, I stopped beating my wife almost a month ago.  But of course it's
"cheap":  even if I were so impressed that I made it my life ambition to
remove this "wart" from the language, it's a done deal *and* Guido likes it.
It's not going away.

> I've tried it and I damn it worse then ever.

Then I would have liked to hear how it botched *you* up in practice (I've
read your "head" objections multiple times over the months, and that's not
the same thing).  You tried it, and what bad thing happened as a result?
That's still missing (the rest of the msg was about your son).

> Specifically, my son is learning Python as a spare-time activity
> (age: 17, background: Pascal, some assembler), and is loving it and
> finding it extremely impressive (he thinks of computers as tools,
> not ends in themselves -- a trait he must have gotten from his mother,
> I guess -- and he paid Python the highest possible compliment when he
> said 'it gets out of my way and just lets me DO things').

Curiously, that last was Barry's motivation for adding print>> (chiefly that
the old stdout redirection dance *was* getting in his way in his Mailman
work).

> Issues that have given him problems so far, and resolutions of said
> issues:
>
> a. undefined-variables: he somehow expected that an x+=1, if x had
>     not been bound yet, would set x to 1; after reasoning about it he
>     agreed that it was clearer to start by setting x=0 before the loop
>     and AFAIK he doesn't do that mistake any more.

Good!  That one's not going to change either <wink>.

> b. he keeps trying to use x.length() and slapping his forehead after
>     getting the error and changing to len(x); still claims this makes no
>     sense and that it SHOULD be a method, and not abbreviated, from
>     what the rest of the language leads him to expect.

We're of the same mindset there:  it's something I stumbled over too when I
first learned Python.  Not the "abbreviation" part, because Python had
plenty of those from the start ("def", "del", "int", "str", "abs", "cmp",
"chr", "ord", "dir", ... were all in 0.9.6, off the top of my head).  But
"so was that thing a method or a function again?!" was a repeated question.

I still don't know whether it was an intentional part of the design, but it
eventually dawned on me that no builtin immutable object supported methods
(and, IIRC, that remained true until complex numbers were added, and by
someone other than Guido).  After that, len(x) vs x.len() was "obvious",
since strings were immutable -> (at the time) strings had no methods -> so
len must be a function.

It's harder to rationalize away now, eh?  Curiously, if it *had* been a
method from the start, I bet its name *would* have been "length":
abbreviations are common among the builtin function names but not among the
builtin method names.  Not much help deciding which is the case, but that
makes the "len"+function and "length"+method combos most likely.

> c. he keeps forgetting to end clauses with a colon ('else', etc); still
>    grumbles that omitting that colon should be OK.

This certainly is a blind spot for some people, but don't know how many; it
pops up regularly but rarely on c.l.py (a few times per year).  It's not one
of mine (to the contrary, it may actually be the case that I've never
forgotten a trailing colon on a block-opener in Python -- not even on the
first day), so I can't speculate about the character flaws that must account
for it in others <wink>.  Whatever, I expect this one is here to stay
(certain to stay if nobody who wants it otherwise champions a PEP).

> [No problem with / truncating, mixed-case issues, nor scoping -- all
> things I _thought_ might give him problems given how Pascal does
> it -- so I guess my preliminary explanations sufficed for those].

Indeed, I would have guessed those would be problems for him too!  If Guido
had it to do over again, adding Pascal's "div" would at the top of his list.

> d. he thought print>>file would APPEND to the file object and never
>     OVERWRITE it

Well, print>> does append, unless he explicitly seek()'ed to an earlier file
position between prints.

> -- at least once tried writing 'print>file' for the latter purpose

Ah, so he's mixing up the functionality of open() and print.  Would he also
have thought that

    sys.stdout = open("somefile", "w")
    print "Hi"

should append to somefile rather than overwriting it?  If so, his confusion
isn't due to ">>".  That is, it isn't so clear *where* he got confused.

>  -- and I also heard him complain than then 'of course' input<file
>     should also work.

So he's actually a ">>" fan who wants to see it extended until it takes over
the entire language <0.9 wink>.

>     Last I heard he deemed it a 'total mess' and swore he'd stick
>     with write/writelines for his file output needs.

So he doesn't like plain "print" either(?).  Of course he's *welcome* to
stick with write/writelines, and given his Pascal background that's what
he's used to (btw, did he first expect writelines to supply trailing
newlines for him?  thinking of the write/writeln distinction in Pascal
there).

> I guess the unbiased opinions of a Python newbie don't count for
> much,

Sure they do -- they *point* rather than *proscribe*, though, because a
baffled newbie isn't usually able to articulate the precise cause(s) of
their confusion (if they could, they wouldn't remain baffled ...).  When ABC
hit one of these newbie sticking points, they would guess at the most likely
causes for the confusion, then set up a formal experiment to test which was
the case.  We don't have funding for that kind of approach, but I wish we
did.  OTOH, it was exactly that kind of study that caused ABC to require
colons at the end of block-opening statements, so there's no guarantee that
*every* newbie benefits.

> but, me, I was impressed that the 'print>>' made up 1/3 of the grand
> total of his objections to Python -- just about anything else he took
> in stride and found to work just as expected

I take it he never tried

    except ValueError, KeyError:

then <wink>.

> (his two other enduring objections, interestingly enough, are _also_
> to minor syntax-sugar issues -- and they don't look totally unfounded
> to me, either).

All objections have *some* foundation; nobody means to write off objections
as empty.  That includes people griping about whitespace-based block
structure, and that regexp notation isn't part of the core, too.  But it is
the Python philosophy that "X or Y?" cases get resolved by picking a winner;
a side effect is that there's also a loser.

> It is of course possible that I subconsciously passed my biases
> to him, but he's a pretty independent guy (and the fact that he
> has no trouble with / truncating seems to confirm that).

Real users are biased -- part of the game.  Besides, I would rather give
*extra* weight to people "biased" by you:  you usually do a thorough job of
softening them up for Guido's view of the world <wink>.

On print>>, though, I'm afraid you two will never agree.  It's unclear
whether Guido would make even plain "print" a statement again if the time
machine's batteries were up to the task, but given that it is a statement,
"print>>" looked like a natural, pleasant and useful extension.  I use it a
lot; so does Barry; so does Guido.  That's 60% of his direct team.  Don't
know about Fred and Jeremy, but Fred is controversy-aversive and Jeremy
probably doesn't want to hurt his standing in academia by admitting to
secret vice <wink>.

abc-had-simple-i/o-but-then-abc-couldn't-read-files-it-didn't-write-
    either-ly y'rs  - tim




From fredrik at effbot.org  Wed Jan  3 13:40:32 2001
From: fredrik at effbot.org (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 18:40:32 GMT
Subject: time.mktime bug in 2.0?
References: <mailman.978540004.4337.python-list@python.org> <92vmjp$bk2$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <AmK46.3487$Qb7.431217@newsb.telia.net>

Walter wrote:
> that works!  thanks for the quick response.  I have been coding it
> wrong all along but in 1.52 it somehow still works.

it's actually a bug in 1.5.2 and earlier.  when the python-dev
team fixed that bug, we broke your program.  sorry ;-)

cheers /F




From mread at cableinet.co.uk  Wed Jan 24 18:00:53 2001
From: mread at cableinet.co.uk (Mike Read)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 23:00:53 GMT
Subject: The fundamentals...
Message-ID: <F8Jb6.30683$pp2.2619941@news3.cableinet.net>

Newbie first script alert!  No problem - it does what I intended (which
probably says more about Python than me...), but I just wanted to start
off on the right foot - is it as elegant as it could be?  If it's not blindingly
obvious, I was separating fields around a period delimiter.

Cheers,

Mike


import string
test = open('\\Windows\\Desktop\\test.txt', 'r')
boo = test.read()
boo = string.split(boo , ". ")
boo = string.join(boo , "\n")

outfile = open('\\Windows\\Desktop\\out.txt', 'w')
outfile.write(boo)
outfile.close()





From lawick at wanadoo.nl  Sat Jan  6 11:23:02 2001
From: lawick at wanadoo.nl (lawick at wanadoo.nl)
Date: 06 Jan 2001 16:23:02 GMT
Subject: frame grabber
Message-ID: <3a574666$0$5838@reader2>

Hi,

I working on a frame grabber that I would like to control from within Python.
I have a Flyvideo98 framegrabber that is currently working with the bttv
drivers (in Linux). How do I open and collect frames from the driver? Can I
just open the driver (/dev/bttv or /dev/video0) and read x*y bytes? Any help
would be appriciated.

Cheers,

Joost

-- 

Joost van Lawick
E: lawick at wanadoo.nl
W: http://home.wanadoo.nl/lawick


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Mon Jan  8 18:02:13 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 00:02:13 +0100
Subject: Fibonacci numbers/program
References: <936gsv$3r1$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <936r2h0ps5@news1.newsguy.com> <93d92t$7si$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <93dh1h08tj@news1.newsguy.com>

"Eric Anechiarico" <wedjlok at excite.com> wrote in message
news:93d92t$7si$1 at nnrp1.deja.com...
    [snip]
> Thanks for your response, Alex.  I was wondering in what context I
> should use that within the program itself?  I am fairly new to Python
> and have not found very many references in the books that I have read
> that would show the exact sequence on when/where I would put that
> string/command into effect with the code itself.
>
> Basically, I am defining the command to
> def FindFibBetween(A,B), having it go through the simple sequence of
> getting the numbers, and then they output them to a screen.  I want to
> interven so that it will NOT print them to a screen, but dump them
> directly into a text file.

So far, so pretty clear.


> So what I need to know is at what point to I call it in the program to
> open a file, write the numbers to it, and then close the file?
>
> Here is the complete code that I use so far:
>
> def FindFibBetween(A,B):
>   x, y = 1L, 1L
>   while x < B:
>     if x >= A: print x
>     x, y = y, x+y
>
> then I input FindFibBetween(1, 100) or whatever range for (1, n)

Since you wrote this function yourself, changing it may be your
simplest option.  You even get a chance to use the least-popular
recent extension to Python!-)  For example:

def FibBetween(A, B, toFile=None):
    # determine fileobject 'toFile' -- may already be one,
    # or a string that's a filename to be opened; if None,
    # output is to standard output:
    if toFile is not None and not hasattr(toFile,'write'):
        toFile = open(toFile, 'w')
    # and now do the work, outputting appropriately:
    x, y = 1L, 1L
    while x < B:
        if x >= A:
            print >>toFile, x
        x, y = y, x+y

There are basically two parts to this modification.  First,
we've added an optional parameter 'toFile', defaulting to
None (which means: output to standard output), and a
couple of line to determine, if the parameter has been
given, whether it's something with a 'write' attribute (a
file-like object, to use as-is), or not (in which case we'll
assume it's a string-like object, and attempt to open it
for writing; Python will raise suitable exceptions, and end
function execution, if we pass totally unsuitable objects
as the value of the 3rd parameter).

The second mod is very simple, and consists in adding
the (highly-debated) optional ">>toFile," part to the
print statement.  With this part, 'print' will output to
standard output if toFile is None, output to a file-like
object toFile, or raise exception if toFile is neither None
nor a suitable file-like object.


So, now, if you call at the prompt:

>>> FibBetween(1,100)

it will output to standard-output as before; if

>>> FibBetween(1, 100, "fibs.txt")

it will output to a file called fibs.txt in the current
directory (overwriting what it previously contained,
if it was already there); and you can also open a
file (e.g. for appending), or otherwise generate any
file-like object (purvued with a write method) and
pass it yourself as the third parameter.


This is also how you'll integrate this into a GUI: some
input widget in the GUI will determine what kind of
output is desired, and thus the 3rd parameter (others,
of course, will determine the first 2 parameters); if the
output is to be on the GUI, too, a file-like object will
have to be manufactured that will react to '.write' calls
on itself by suitably displaying the strings passed in as the
argument to the .write calls (most GUI's will make that
quite easy, or have suitable pre-cooked output widgets
ready for such use).


Alex





From sholden at holdenweb.com  Tue Jan  9 12:27:08 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 12:27:08 -0500
Subject: API\dll
References: <m22e39.snm.ln@mail>
Message-ID: <iTH66.452$24.2528@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com>

Ben Catanzariti <benc at rehame.com> wrote in message
news:m22e39.snm.ln at mail...
> Hi,
>
> This may seem like a simple q for a lot of you?
>
> I have an API with a dll. To call Functions from this dll the examples for
> the API are written in C. However I would like to use Python to make the
> same function calls. Does the dll have to be written specifically in the
> language that is making the call to do this... in this case C? Or can
Python
> make calls to any dll?
>
> thanks in advance
>
> --
> benc at rehame.com
>
>
There is a module called  "calldll" written by Sam Rushing which allows
Python programs to call just about any function is a DLL.  See

    http://www.vex.net/~x/parnassus/apyllo.py?i=40741973

for more details.

regards
 Steve




From dan.rolander at marriott.com  Sat Jan 13 11:59:42 2001
From: dan.rolander at marriott.com (Dan Rolander)
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 11:59:42 -0500
Subject: Anyone use Installer with PyXML?
Message-ID: <002401c07d82$393ccbc0$11260340@yin>

I have not been able to get Gordon McMillan's installer to work with PyXML.
The Win32 exe's I create cannot import a parser and I'm not sure how to
manually configure the .cfg file.

Has anyone done this?

Dan





From futurepm at ipa.net  Thu Jan  4 23:40:33 2001
From: futurepm at ipa.net (Ima Jean Sutton)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 22:40:33 -0600
Subject: (no subject)
Message-ID: <000701c076d1$a63e0a20$f72f0dcf@oemcomputer>

i would like to join the newsgroup
-----------------------------------------------------
Click here for Free Video!!
http://www.gohip.com/free_video/

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From matkin at iar.se  Tue Jan 23 06:15:57 2001
From: matkin at iar.se (Mats Kindahl)
Date: 23 Jan 2001 12:15:57 +0100
Subject: Count and replacing strings a texfile
References: <94i9ft$apq$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <um7l3mtt76.fsf@pjakkur.iar.se>

puckoh at my-deja.com writes:

> Hello.
> 
> This is a probably basic question.
> I have a textfile about 120k large, and there is several strings in it
> which I must replace.
> The strings are named "%id%" and the number of strings are unknown.
> 
> First, I need to count them all.
> Then I must replace every one of them with a incrementing number.
> Like the first %id% is replaced with 1, the second with 2 etc.
> 
> I've been told that this is a perfect job for Perl, but I don't
> understand Perl.
> I merely understand Python. Well, I think I got the basics anyway. :)
> 
> Anyone care to help me out for a minute to suggest what to do?
> Any pointers to examples are alot appreciated.

There have been Python code to do the job elswhere in the thread, but
the following Perl code (of the top of my head) will do the job you
describe and save the old files with a .old at the end. You can give
several files at the end.

perl -pi.old -e 's/%id%/++$cnt/eg; END { print $cnt,"\n" }' test.txt

Good luck,
Mats

P.S.
I am *not* trying to advocate Perl (or any other language, for that
matter). Don't take this article as anything along those lines.
D.S.

-- 
Mats Kindahl, IAR Systems, Sweden

Any opinions expressed are my own, not my company's.


From johann at physics.berkeley.edu  Fri Jan 19 19:17:13 2001
From: johann at physics.berkeley.edu (Johann Hibschman)
Date: 19 Jan 2001 16:17:13 -0800
Subject: Tabbing/Spaces
References: <B68E060D.901B%bobhicks@adelphia.net> <mtzogn9rpx.fsf@astron.berkeley.edu> <ivcZcLAtwLa6Ew2r@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <mtu26v9iwm.fsf@astron.berkeley.edu>

Robin Becker writes:

> In article <mtzogn9rpx.fsf at astron.berkeley.edu>, Johann Hibschman
> <johann at physics.berkeley.edu> writes
>> Robert L Hicks writes:
> ...
>> Well, a "tab stop" is defined to be equal to 8 spaces.  However, on
> ...
> Well, I define my tab stops and I make them equal to 4 spaces. Using
> tabs allows me to alter all indents at once. Also quicker at travelling
> back and forth across slow networks.

Would you prefer if I said that a "tab" was defined to be 8 spaces?
Regardless of how you display them, python defines a tab to increment
to the next 8-space boundary.

Shrug.  Whatever suits you best, I guess.  I just hate getting all-tab
code, since then I have to re-indent it for it to be readable.
All-space code, on the other hand, always looks fine.

-- 
Johann Hibschman                           johann at physics.berkeley.edu


From steven.citron-pousty at yale.edu  Mon Jan 15 12:36:49 2001
From: steven.citron-pousty at yale.edu (Steven Citron-Pousty)
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 12:36:49 -0500
Subject: Problem with a tuple - newbie ignorance
Message-ID: <3A633531.9010303@yale.edu>

Greetings all:
So I am writing this program to parse text files. I am using a tuple to 
store the field names and values (i.e. [['id =', 't =', 
...]['','',...]]. The program reads through all the files in the 
directory. For each file it writes all the all the matches in teh 
appropriate field.  I am having several problems, but the biggest right 
now is:
When the program goes to parse the next file it doesn't clear out the 
contents from the last file. Here is how I thought it should work...
<Header stuff>
ifields = [[fields names list][list of just '','','']
<FOR loop with all the file names from the directory>
open file
results = ifields
<fill the results tuple>
<print the results tuple>
<go back to the top of the loop>

For some reason I thought that each time results gets sets to ifields it 
should reset the contents of results. I have tried all sorts of other 
workarounds, such as using "del results" just before I go back and 
repeat the loop.
What am I missing here?
Thanks for your help...
Steve



From tony at lsl.co.uk  Mon Jan 29 09:33:52 2001
From: tony at lsl.co.uk (Tony J Ibbs (Tibs))
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 14:33:52 -0000
Subject: invalid-token syntax hook (was Re: Hack request: rational numbers)
In-Reply-To: <slrn979o0q.29m.jepler@potty.housenet>
Message-ID: <000001c08a00$80b7b4d0$f05aa8c0@lslp7o.int.lsl.co.uk>

Jeff Epler wrote:
> Why not go all the way and make the whole Python grammar extensible
> in Python?

and went on to announce

> http://sourceforge.net/projects/mobiuspython/

Ooh! Ooh! I have two immediate reactions:

1. What a great idea - I can *use* that (when I ever get back to the
mxTextTools preprocessor - an extension to the language is *so* much
more elegant than a preprocessor - and there's something fun about using
Spark to parse code to allow one to use mxTextTools)

2. What a scary idea - would I ever trust anyone (possibly including me)
to use that?

I'll be very interested to know what the BDFL thinks (although I guess
that I can guess).

(adds another thing to the large list of
Things-I'd-like-to-play-with/do-in-my-spare-time, unfortunately aware
that this will be item, um, about 97, with a realistic chance of the
first, well, about 3, ever getting done)

Tibs

--
Tony J Ibbs (Tibs)      http://www.tibsnjoan.co.uk/
"How fleeting are all human passions compared with the massive
continuity of ducks." - Dorothy L. Sayers, "Gaudy Night"
My views! Mine! Mine! (Unless Laser-Scan ask nicely to borrow them.)




From bowman at montana.com  Thu Jan 11 10:00:43 2001
From: bowman at montana.com (bowman)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 08:00:43 -0700
Subject: Speed of Python vs. Perl
References: <t5eojolijv1e58@corp.supernews.com> <WN366.240570$_5.53720921@news4.rdc1.on.home.com> <slrn95qtbp.94d.tim@degree.ath.cx>
Message-ID: <cUj76.798$_y3.5047@newsfeed.slurp.net>

Tim Hammerquist <tim at degree.ath.cx> wrote
>
> I'm glad you mentioned this.  If speed is _that_ important for any given
> program, consider if it should be written in a lower-level language such
> as C/C++, or just cut out the processor intensive section, write and
> compile in C, and link in.  Both Perl and Python support this.

Watch the C/C++ part :). In _The Practice of Programming_ by Kernighan and
Pike, a Markov chain implementation is examined using C, C++, Java, Perl
and Awk.

On WinNT, Perl completely hoses C++; on a R10000, Perl is faster than C++
using deque, and almost equal to C++ with a STL list implementation.

Unfortunately, Python wasn't included; however many very good points are
made wrt the ease of implementing the algo in each language, the vagaries of
libraries (STL on NT), and so on.

I'd recommend the book for anyone interested in a very down to earth
discussion
of efficiencies, design, choice of languages and other real world issues.





From gerhard.nospam at bigfoot.de  Mon Jan  8 21:39:00 2001
From: gerhard.nospam at bigfoot.de (Gerhard =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2001 03:39:00 +0100
Subject: Web devel with python. Whats the best route?
References: <Pine.BSF.4.21.0101071733170.29753-100000@open-systems.net>
  <mailman.978936788.24717.python-list@python.org>
  <93dfqm07la@news1.newsguy.com> <mailman.979003028.5670.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3A5A79C4.AF61F34E@bigfoot.de>

The original post most probably meant mod_python. Another Python-Apache
module is mod_snake, just to add to the confusion :-) URLs are
www.modpython.org, modsnake.sourceforge.net.

But I agree that the old-fash CGI approach is the safest bet. But a
larger web-application is much easier to program when it is a
long-running process and not a CGI script. You also don't have to open
database connections each time, load and parse config files each time.
It *can* make a noticable speed difference when there is zero startup
time in a script.

Gerhard

Lele Gaifax wrote:
> 
> >>>>> On Mon, 8 Jan 2001 23:37:54 +0100, "Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com> said:
> 
>     AM> "Moshe Zadka" <moshez at zadka.site.co.il> wrote in message
>     AM> news:mailman.978936788.24717.python-list at python.org...  [snip]
>     >> The only thing I'm pretty certain about is that PyApache has
>     >> been
>     AM> superseded
>     >> by mod_apache. Other then that, all have strong points, so you
>     >> should pick
> 
>     AM> I know I'm confused, but, isn't mod_apache some other Apache
>     AM> module (that, I think, has something to do with configuring
>     AM> the webserver itself)?  How does it supersede PyApache?  Tx
>     AM> for clarifications on this...!
> 
> It may be, in the sense that it's a superset of PyApache. Never
> checked nor used the other modules, so I may be wrong.
> 
> The goal of PyApache was fast execution of standard CGIs, and that's
> it. For more esotheric capabilities, I preferred Zope.

-- 
Sorry for the fake email, please use the real one below to reply.
contact: g e r h a r d @ b i g f o o t . d e
web:     http://highqualdev.com


From aahz at panix.com  Thu Jan 18 11:20:29 2001
From: aahz at panix.com (Aahz Maruch)
Date: 18 Jan 2001 08:20:29 -0800
Subject: Python and Industry, IBM I'm afraid
References: <3A63D9E8.F9B74ACE@mjs400.co.uk> <941c14$dok$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <mailman.979786609.2939.python-list@python.org> <946evt02mr@news2.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <94754d$sk2$1@panix2.panix.com>

In article <946evt02mr at news2.newsguy.com>,
Alex Martelli <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>  [AIX 4]
>
>As I recall, its main
>"here's our horrible surprise of the day for you" feature was a malloc
>that would never return 0 even if you asked it for FAR more memory
>than you had around -- rather, the program died horribly later when
>it actually tried to USE the memory it THOUGHT it had allocated... a
>"designed-in feature", they adamantly insisted, NOT a bug (later I did
>meet some BSD variants with this wonderful 'feature' too -- never did I
>really understand WHY one would play such a trick to poor application
>programs...!); that accounted for well over half of our porting woes to
>that specific box/OS.  Later, they did relent and allow some ways to
>bypass the 'malloc never fails' feature.

You're not making it sound as horrible as it actually was: the OS would
actually start feeding you memory from the malloc'd chunk and your
program would run.  At some (possibly long-distant) point in the future,
your program would suddenly die a horrible death, possibly crashing the
rest of the machine with it if it had consumed all of virtual memory.
More than that, the memory allocation was *sparse*, so you could malloc
a gigabyte, try to use memory at the top and bottom of the range, and
everything would keep chugging along until you died.

I-had-no-direct-experience-with-it-but-lots-of-customer-complaints-ly y'rs
-- 
                      --- Aahz (Copyright 2001 by aahz at pobox.com)

Androgynous poly kinky vanilla queer het    <*>     http://www.rahul.net/aahz/
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6

A house is a machine to keep your cat dry.  --Aahz


From greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz  Tue Jan 23 20:23:02 2001
From: greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (Greg Ewing)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 14:23:02 +1300
Subject: += return value
References: <94ko5t$e5n$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <3A6E2E76.66723F4F@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz>

shochet at hotmail.com wrote:
> 
> I am confused with the return values of the augmented assignment
> opertators. When redefining them in a class, what should they return?

They should return whatever it is you want
to be assigned to the left hand side.

> Why do these operators need any return value? 
> It would seem enough simply to set the object's internal
> state.

That's fine if the object's internal state *can* be set,
i.e. if the object is mutable, but not if it's immutable.

There was a long debate about this when the feature was
being considered. Some people thought that x += y should
just be syntactic sugar for x = x + y, so that it would
work on both mutable and immutable values. Others thought
that it should actually mutate the object on the left hand
side, but then it would only work on mutable objects, and
people who tried to do

> x = 2
> x+=1

would get a nasty surprise.

Eventually the current solution was settled upon, which is
that the return value of the method is assigned to the left
hand side. That way, objects which want to mutate themselves
can do so and return self, whereas objects which are immutable,
or don't want to mutate themselves, can create a new object
and return that. So you get the best of both worlds.

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept, University of Canterbury,	  
Christchurch, New Zealand
To get my email address, please visit my web page:	  
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg


From rcalco at cortechs.com  Sun Jan 28 15:00:58 2001
From: rcalco at cortechs.com (Bob Calco)
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 15:00:58 -0500
Subject: PyMacs vs. Pym (was: Pyditor, Text editor fully extendible inpython a la' Emacs)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SOL.4.30.0101281911050.12069-100000@mimosa.csv.warwick.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <HBEJKOJGHBOIBHLHPMKGEECBCIAA.rcalco@cortechs.com>

# no, you're wrong: you want M-x global-auto-brew-mode

Thanks, but that command apparently uses teaspoons of instant coffee, which
I hate. I'm talking REAL expresso, here!

;)

Sincerely,

Bob Calco

# -----Original Message-----
# From: python-list-admin at python.org
# [mailto:python-list-admin at python.org]On Behalf Of John J. Lee
# Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2001 2:14 PM
# To: python-list at python.org
# Subject: Re: PyMacs vs. Pym (was: Pyditor, Text editor fully extendible
# inpython a la' Emacs)
#
#
# On 28 Jan 2001, William Sonna wrote:
#
# > On Sun, 28 Jan 2001 08:06:49, "Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com>
# > wrote:
# >
# > > "Nahuel Greco" <ngreco at softhome.net> wrote in message
# > > news:mailman.980638952.20592.python-list at python.org...
# > >     [snip]
# > > > > By the way, my ideal text editor will also keep my coffee
# cup full of
# > > warm,
# > > > > fresh Expresso while I'm working. Haven't found one yet
# that can do
# > > that,
# > >     [snip]
# > > > > I'll have to insist on the java (small j) support...
#
# no, you're wrong: you want M-x global-auto-brew-mode
#
#
# John
#
# --
# http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
#




From amritansh at mobilian.com  Wed Jan 17 16:58:11 2001
From: amritansh at mobilian.com (Amritansh Raghav)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 13:58:11 -0800
Subject: design help/questions
References: <t6bue0e3m9bt74@corp.supernews.com> <9452jt$s8e$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <t6c5bk7acha282@corp.supernews.com>

Thanks
The reason I didnt want to do it in C was to allow the parser to be extended
easily. I did look at the pack and unpack and they seem to do what I want. I
just need to build the dictionary now

"Donn Cave" <donn at u.washington.edu> wrote in message
news:9452jt$s8e$1 at nntp6.u.washington.edu...
> Quoth "Amritansh Raghav" <amritansh at mobilian.com>:
>
> | So here is what I need to do. I'm trying to write a scripting tool for
our
> | test team. They wish to send arbitrary packets over the network.  What
I'd
> | like to do is allow the testers to specify any packet in a text file -
say
> | something like this:
> | <IP>
> |     "VersionLength"          0        1    # Name of field, Starting
offset,
> | Length in bytes
> |     "TOS"                        1        1
> |     "Length"                     2        2
> |     "Id"                            4        2
> |     "Offset"                      6        2
> |     "TTL"                        8        1
> |     "ProtoId"                    9        1
> |     CheckSum"                10        2
> |     "Source"                   12        4
> |     "Dest"                        16        4
> | </IP>
> |
> | Once they have specified this, the tester should be able to create a
packet
> | an assign values to the field, or receive a packet and parse out its
> | contents.
> | so a script should be able to say
> | p = read()
> | if p["ProtoId"] == 17:
> |     # do something here for UDP packets
> |
> | Solution
> |     I have written a DLL  which can open/close/read/write to an ethernet
> | device. I've got it interfacing to Python. It can accept a buffer and
return
> | a buffer. I've looked at socketmodule.c to get most of that figured out.
I
> | assume what I need to do is build a dictionary whose keys are the field
> | names of a packet and then write a parser to fill in the values into the
> | dictionary. I also need something to parse the text file description.
> |
> | If someone has done something like this before, or can point me to
helpful
> | scripts and source, I would be grateful.
>
> If I understand this, I think at the lowest level the options are few.
> I think since you're already writing C extensions, you might find it
> simpler to make the buffer into a tuple there, but if you want to do
> it in Python, you can use struct.unpack.  See your documentation, or
> print struct.__doc__.
>
> Then it's up to you how to map this tuple to the field names.  I think
> one candidate would be a class ...
>
>    class Packet:
>        def __init__(self, buffer = None):
>            if buffer is None:
>                self.VersionLength = 1
>                ... # default values
>            else:
>                self.unpack(buffer)
>        def unpack(self, buffer):
>            self.VersionLength, ... = struct.unpack('B...', buffer)
>        def pack(self):
>            return struct.pack('B...', self.VersionLength, ...)
>
>    packet = Packet(buffer)
>    packet.ProtoId = 17
>    buffer = packet.pack()
>
> Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu




From bintowidodo at triplegate.com  Wed Jan 24 03:32:13 2001
From: bintowidodo at triplegate.com (binto dodo)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 15:32:13 +0700 (JAVT)
Subject: (no subject)
Message-ID: <32650.202.155.86.18.980325133.TripleGate@www.triplegate.com>

i'm abeginner in phyton....
so tell me what is exactly phyton for....what is its ability???




From m.bless at gmx.de  Mon Jan 29 17:54:55 2001
From: m.bless at gmx.de (Martin Bless)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 22:54:55 GMT
Subject: How to extend sys.path on Win9x permanently?
Message-ID: <3a75ef9c.11194652@news.muenster.de>

Python20, Win98, PythonWin

(1) I'd like   Python.exe/DOS    AND   Python in PythonWin   to start
up  with an extended sys.path, having my own lib added,  as if a
sys.path.append('c:\\mylib') had already been performed.
How can I add the extra path permanently?

(2) Here's what sys.path is on my machine. Where is this defined?
Registry?
 *.ini?
Hard coded?

sys.path
['', 'c:\\programme\\python20\\win32',
'c:\\programme\\python20\\win32\\lib', 'c:\\programme\\python20',
'c:\\programme\\python20\\pythonwin', 'c:\\programme\\python20\\dlls',
'c:\\programme\\python20\\lib',
'c:\\programme\\python20\\lib\\plat-win',
'c:\\programme\\python20\\lib\\lib-tk']

(3) I'd hate having to put something like "set $PYTHONPATH=..." into
AUTOSTART.BAT, since DOS environment space is very limited.

[... and besides, this new WinMe on one machine  dismisses all changes
I make to autoexec.bat und reverts  to the previous version the next
time I reboot. How can I change this behaviour?]

thanks a lot
Martin Bless


From wware at world.std.com  Sun Jan 21 19:31:07 2001
From: wware at world.std.com (Will Ware)
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 00:31:07 GMT
Subject: Python on Palm OS ?
References: <87pujkls6t.fsf@gabriel.heim6.tu-clausthal.de> <XQJT5.79294$4U6.3187359@news1.rdc2.on.home.com> <3A6B4A8C.4040500@pehr.net>
Message-ID: <G7JG3v.8Bu@world.std.com>

pehr (pehr at pehr.net) wrote:
> #2. Long term (6months?) get a linux-based PDA. Several companies are
> producing or about to produce these...

Another option is to get an existing WINCE-based PDA and run PythonCE:
http://www.digicool.com/~brian/PythonCE/
>From the FAQ, as regards what kind of PDA to use:

  If you have a Casio, Compaq, HP, Hitachi, or LG Electronics HPC, you
  need the SH3 compatible file. If you have an NEC, Philips, the new
  Compaq, or Sharp you need the MIPS version. The type of processor
  you have can be checked by going to the control panel and then clicking
  the sytem icon.

If you search for "320XL" on eBay, you'll see some nice deals. I personally
favor the PDAs with the chicklet keyboards, and I think they're particularly
appropriate if you're thinking about writing Python scripts and programs.

-- 
import string,time,os;print string.join((lambda x:x[:10]+x[8:])(map(
lambda x:string.center("*"*(lambda x:((x<24) ### Seasons Greetings, Will Ware
*(x-3))+3)(x),24),range(1,28, 2))),"\n") ################ wware at world.std.com


From peterhi at my-deja.com  Tue Jan 30 03:55:47 2001
From: peterhi at my-deja.com (peterhi at my-deja.com)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 08:55:47 GMT
Subject: Python vs Ruby
References: <94mdkd$222e$1@news.adamastor.ac.za> <p6qwvbjtr97.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de> <94pvd8$3g$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <p6qu26mtesx.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de> <mailman.980533713.29159.python-list@python.org> <kug0i65d5p.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>
Message-ID: <955vih$j5g$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

In article <kug0i65d5p.fsf at lasipalatsi.fi>,
  Erno Kuusela <erno-news at erno.iki.fi> wrote:
> what is real gc?
>
>   -- erno

The same thing is 'real' multitasking. An irrelevance for stupid people
to squabble over. Give it no further thought unless you enjoy
flamewars.

Peter Hickman - Writing applications not programs.


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From cpr at emsoftware.com  Thu Jan 18 23:00:14 2001
From: cpr at emsoftware.com (Chris Ryland)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 04:00:14 GMT
Subject: PSU uses emacs?
Message-ID: <948e4b$hm0$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

Why do I have the sinking feeling that, with all the talk about IDEs
for Python, that the cognoscenti all use Emacs with python-mode and a
shell window? ;-)
--
Chris Ryland * Em Software, Inc. * www.emsoftware.com


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From spamers at must.die  Mon Jan 29 07:29:50 2001
From: spamers at must.die (Fernando Rodríguez)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 13:29:50 +0100
Subject: Avoiding the __repr__ call or protecting an instance from evaluation  URG. please
References: <db367t8ed4ktadbdmf71lgk1t8h3p3i4lk@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <i7oa7tc9s1qd9pdj1apo7f6akshvbgb3f6@4ax.com>

On Sat, 27 Jan 2001 19:10:07 +0100, Fernando Rodr?guez <spamers at must.die>
wrote:

>Hi!
>
>	I have a class whose __repr__ method returns a string. Whenever I pass
>an instance of this class to a function, what the function gets is the result
>of __repr__. Most of the time this is OK, but under certain circumstances I
>also need to make sure that a function receives an instance of the class, and
>the the string that __repr__ returns.
>
It was a confusion, sorry.  Thanks to Emile and Donn. :-)




//-----------------------------------------------
//	Fernando Rodriguez Romero
//
//	frr at mindless dot com
//------------------------------------------------


From amk at mira.erols.com  Sun Jan 14 21:27:18 2001
From: amk at mira.erols.com (A.M. Kuchling)
Date: 15 Jan 2001 02:27:18 GMT
Subject: is Python fully object oriented ?
References: <mailman.979370835.7508.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrn964oq0.lg.amk@207-172-36-115.s115.tnt6.ann.va.dialup.rcn.com>

On Sat, 13 Jan 2001 02:26:23 -0500, Tim Peters <tim.one at home.com> wrote:
>Heh -- I wonder whether Knuth ever heard of C++!  

In an interview with Knuth on Computer Literacy's (now Fatbrain's) Web
site, he was asked about C++:

	C++ is too complicated.  At the moment, it's impossible for me
	to write portable code that I believe would work on lots of different
	systems, unless I avoid all exotic features.  Whenever the C++
	language designers had two competing ideas as to how
	they should solve some problem, they said "OK, we'll do them both".
	So the language is too baroque for my taste.

I formed the impression that he prefers to use WEB or CWEB for
programming.  Since he also uses Emacs for editing, he presumably can
also handle the odd bit of Lisp.

--amk



From tim.one at home.com  Tue Jan  2 16:35:49 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2001 16:35:49 -0500
Subject: sre \Z bug or feature?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10101021957410.1302-100000@kev.ioc.ee>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCAEGMIGAA.tim.one@home.com>

[posted & mailed]

[Pearu Peterson]
> Here is a complete re.match command that I use in my application:
>
> m=re.match(r'\A(?ms)\s*@\s*(?P<name>\w+)\s*{\s*(?P<body>.*?)\s*}\s
> *\Z',item)
>
> and it should match an item in the .bib files (the BiBTeX input file).
> This item is expected to be of the following form:
>
> @name{body}
>
> where `name' is purely alphabetic string, body may contain arbitrary
> characters, including `{',`}',`\n'. Between the parts `@', `name', `{',
> `body', and `}' there may be any number of whitespace characters,
> including newlines. Note also that `item' contains exactly one such
> bibtex item block (that is correctly ensured by the other parts of my
> application).

That's an excellent explanation.  Thanks!

> So, do you think that the pattern I use is somehow invalid or
> inefficient?

It's at least confusing <wink>.  Note that \A doesn't accomplish anything,
because .match *always* anchors to the start of the string.  (?m) doesn't
accomplish anything either, because you have no instances of "^" or "$"
metacharacters.  They don't hurt, except that they're of no actual use so
it's impossible to guess whether you *hoped* they were of some use.  It's
like seeing stmts of the form

   i = i + 0

in regular code.  Is that what the author intended?  Can't tell, but it
looks fishy.  Also unclear why the obscure (because rarely used) \Z is
there -- it doesn't appear to accomplish anything here that the usual $
wouldn't.

The use of minimal matching .*? is certainly inefficient:  first it tries an
empty string, then it tries matching 1 character, then 2 characters, and on
& on.  But unless you typically have enormous amounts of trailing
whitespace, it will be more efficient to try matching the whole tail first,
then cutting back one at a time until it succeeds.

So it took me a long time to figure out why you might be using a minimal
match to begin with.  Best I can guess is that it's simply because you don't
want trailing whitespace in the body.  But getting rid of excess whitespace
is what string.strip() is for!  Trying to do that with regexps instead is
strained.

That leaves me with

matcher = re.compile(r"""
    \s*
    @
    \s*
    (?P<name> \w+)
    \s*
    {
        (?P<body> .*)
    }
    \s*
    $
""", re.VERBOSE | re.DOTALL).match

and then

    m = matcher(some_string)
    if m:
        name, body = m.group("name"), m.group("body").strip()

> In order to get my application to work under Python 2.0, I use now
>
> import pre as re
>
> that works perfectly.

Fine by me.

just-so-long-as-i-don't-have-to-maintain-it<wink>-ly y'rs  - tim




From mwh21 at cam.ac.uk  Fri Jan 26 08:32:18 2001
From: mwh21 at cam.ac.uk (Michael Hudson)
Date: 26 Jan 2001 13:32:18 +0000
Subject: Hack request: rational numbers
References: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0101251759070.28148-100000@kev.ioc.ee> <m3wvbjxs9h.fsf@atrus.jesus.cam.ac.uk> <Pine.LNX.4.21.0101261251120.7303-100000@kev.ioc.ee>
Message-ID: <m3k87ixwv1.fsf@atrus.jesus.cam.ac.uk>

Pearu Peterson <pearu at ioc.ee> writes:

> On 25 Jan 2001, Michael Hudson wrote:
> 
> > > is rather clumsy. Clearly, minimal representation of this rational number
> > > is
> > > 
> > >     3/4
> > > 
> > > but in Python this expression has different meaning.
> > 
[snip slightly silly bytecodehacks idea] 
> And it will break other codes/modules where `3/4' is expected to return
> `0'.

Yes, but won't your idea?  I'd admit I haven't thought too hard about
all this.

> And it will work only for interactive session, right?

You could write an import hook... that way you could have .pyr file
that have the different x/y behaviour, and the old behaviour in .py
files.

> So, I'll not going to do that either.

Fair enough.

> > > 3) What are changes that these hooks will be accepted to Python core?
> > 
> > Can't speak for the people whose opinions really count, but my guess: none.
> 
> It is rather disappointing estimation:(
> 
> And it makes me think that (some? most?) people want to keep Python
> usage only in web/gui based applications rather than extending its
> usage to scientific computing (both *numerical* and *symbolical*).

That's not what I said; I'd expect it to be rejected on the grounds of
being a non-intuitive and ugly syntax.  You can do scientific
computing in Python without your proposal (believe me!), and it's all
a cost/benefit tradeoff.  The cost is additional complexity.

I found Python to be too slow for my mathematical stuff, though (and
don't say NumPy!  Doesn't apply here).

OTOH, I can't think of the last time I seriously used a non-integer
number in a Python program (and that includes the mathematical stuff
alluded to above), so maybe I'm not the best person to judge...

Cheers,
M.

-- 
  Any form of evilness that can be detected without *too* much effort
  is worth it...  I have no idea what kind of evil we're looking for
  here or how to detect is, so I can't answer yes or no.
                                       -- Guido Van Rossum, python-dev


From dsh8290 at rit.edu  Tue Jan 23 17:25:03 2001
From: dsh8290 at rit.edu (D-Man)
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 17:25:03 -0500
Subject: curses, python20/152, RH70/62, postgresql problems
In-Reply-To: <slrn96ngqh.i0.amk@mira.erols.com>; from amk@mira.erols.com on Mon, Jan 22, 2001 at 05:07:25AM +0000
References: <94731d$9j4$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <slrn96fd9n.52f.amk@207-172-36-33.s33.tnt6.ann.va.dialup.rcn.com> <mailman.979923026.29932.python-list@python.org> <slrn96ngqh.i0.amk@mira.erols.com>
Message-ID: <20010123172503.E22126@harmony.cs.rit.edu>

On Mon, Jan 22, 2001 at 05:07:25AM +0000, A.M. Kuchling wrote:
| On Fri, 19 Jan 2001 11:47:40 -0500, D-Man <dsh8290 at rit.edu> wrote:
| >Could you provide some more details on the glibc problem?  I used to
| 
| One of the fixes in the glibc update
| (http://www.redhat.com/support/errata/RHBA-2000-079.html) reads:
| 
|    This release fixes compatibility bugs with glibc 2.0.x, fixes a C
|    header file problem so that Python 2.0 compiles out of box, and
|    also fixes a bug in locale handling...
| 
| The Bugzilla ID for the LONG_BIT problem is 19088; see 
| http://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=19088
| 
| --amk
| 

Ahh, thank you.  (The problem is MAXINT hasn't been defined which
gives an incorrect default)  I didn't see anything obviously wrong
with the code in the header, so I fixed it by simply hardcoding my
system's data in it.


Thanks,
-D




From rindolf2 at yahoo.comNOSPAM  Wed Jan  3 00:00:48 2001
From: rindolf2 at yahoo.comNOSPAM (Rindolf)
Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 05:00:48 GMT
Subject: GIF Image Size
References: <Wxp46.24381$F_3.940941@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <92tbig$ede$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <Ifw46.28043$F_3.1077811@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <4my46.10966$mg6.496261@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>

"Rindolf" <rindolf2 at yahoo.comNOSPAM> wrote in message
news:Ifw46.28043$F_3.1077811 at newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
> "Greg Landrum" <glandrum at my-deja.com> wrote in message
> news:92tbig$ede$1 at nnrp1.deja.com...
> > In article <Wxp46.24381$F_3.940941 at newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>,
> >   "Rindolf" <rindolf2 at yahoo.comNOSPAM> wrote:
> > > Is there any way to find out the dimensions of a GIF image using
> > python? I
> > > looked in the language reference and it didn't look like there was.
> > >
> >
> > If you are going to be working with GIFs (or any image format for that
> > matter), you probably want to install PIL:
> > http://www.pythonware.com/products/pil/index.htm
> > Once you have that installed, you can easily determine the size of a GIF
> > as follows:
> > from Pil import Image
> > img = Image.open('foo.gif')
> > print img.size
> >
> > I hope this helps,
> Thank you! Btw, what type of object is img.size, and what is the class of
> object returned by Image.open()?
Um, I just downloaded it, how do I use it in windows? I have python 2.0
installed in C:\Python20. Help?

Rindolf




From phd at phd.pp.ru  Tue Jan 16 03:42:53 2001
From: phd at phd.pp.ru (Oleg Broytmann)
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 11:42:53 +0300 (MSK)
Subject: Python and ODBC?
In-Reply-To: <m38zoclocd.fsf@paci.nautilus>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0101161142120.19451-100000@fep132.fep.ru>

On 15 Jan 2001, Lele Gaifax wrote:
>     OB>    Where is a python module that work with Firebird (just
>     OB> curious)?
>
> http://www.zope.org/Members/RETierney/gvibDA which also provide the
> Zope machinery, on the top of a Python module usable standalone. This
> is particularly nice since it contains precompiled stuff for Widows.

   Thank you.

> http://sourceforge.net/projects/kinterbasdb is another one, the first
> I used.

   Ah, finally the project moved to SF!

Oleg.
----
     Oleg Broytmann            http://phd.pp.ru/            phd at phd.pp.ru
           Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN.




From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Jan  5 09:47:00 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 15:47:00 +0100
Subject: 2001 Enchancement Wishlist
References: <3A4CEACB.220998A0@javanet.com> <Ro736.2511$Qb7.273102@newsb.telia.net> <92j83r13gh@news1.newsguy.com> <20001231175940.A5435@xs4all.nl> <008301c07501$c036ae40$43931497@martelli> <20010104165116.F2467@xs4all.nl> <008601c07675$0adf2020$102b2bc1@cadlab.it> <20010104203232.P402@xs4all.nl> <006801c0769b$ac0cc3a0$9d8a1a97@martelli> <20010105110459.Q402@xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <011001c07726$5ced6be0$102b2bc1@cadlab.it>

"Thomas Wouters" <thomas at xs4all.net> writes:

> > and you sharply contradicted my "can't" by asserting "of course it can".
> > It's easy to check who said what when, you know.
>
> Alex, I already said that that wasn't what I meant. If you use Python, you
> use Python, not one the single feature of module namespaces. Module
> namespaces can do jack shit. That doesn't mean Python can't.

We appear not to have important disagreement on substance -- just on
who said what when, which, as I say, is easy to check (never saw a
"sorry, that wasn't what I meant" by you on this thread before this
post, for example).  At least, I hope this clarification assuages
your oft-expressed surprise at my reaction: I was responding to your
words, and not to the intended meaning (well) hidden behind them.

I don't particularly "care about singletons", either, nor do I have
any objection whatsoever to factory-functions (out of all creational
patterns in the GoF book, I rate Singleton the least useful, the
Factory ones the most useful).  And, most emphatically, I was never
asserting "Python can't" do this-or-that in my post to which you
originally objected.


> (Modules are namespaces, and should stay namespaces. If you want an object
> to be 'configurable', you shouldn't use a namespace. Keep Python Simple ;)

Modules are not *just* namespaces.  They *have* namespaces, they
also have initialization-code (which is what may originally do
some populating of that namespace, but it can also do other things).

Recognizing (e.g.) a "def __setattr__" at module-level as providing
a similar function to a similarly-named method in a class instance
would (in my opinion) not 'complicate' the Python language: it would
just extend an already-existing concept (which currently only applies
to class-instances, and modules coded in C) to some more objects
(to wit, modules coded in Python).  It would just add a modest amount
of functionality at an even more modest conceptual cost.

> Regardless of singletons, there might be other good reasons to provide,
for
> instance, 'frozen' modules, with a read-only namespace after
initialization.
> Or rather, *easy* frozen modules, since I think you can already do it from
C.

Exactly.  A few lines above, you wrote you thought of my desire for (e.g.)
a module having __setattr__ that "it's a pretty useless idea".  Now, "there
might be other good reasons" for something that might be provided through
such means (whether or not singletons are involved)...

A different approach to providing such features would be to make a little
addition to _dictionaries_ (all objects _using_ dictionaries would then
potentially benefit) -- whether it be something as simple as a 'flags'
field, regulating whether entries can be [a] overwritten if already
present, [b] added if not yet present (two separate flags for the two
permissions, or, to reduce things to the bare bones, one for both); or,
something as rich as callables equivalent to __setattr__/__getattr__,
which (with a bit more effort) might provide for 'freezing' but also
for much, much more.  (Of course, ways would have to be provided to
access/mutate these things, be they as simple as 1 flag or as rich as
2 callables -- barest-bones might be a single new 'freeze' method of
dictionary objects irretrievably turning the 'single [a]+[b] permission
flag' off, full-featured would require a little bit more).

Working at dictionary-level might not be any harder than working on a
specific user of dictionaries (e.g., module-objects), either in terms
of code changes or conceptually for the Python programmer, yet could
provide more power for the same cost.

An alternative would be to leave built-in dictionary objects alone,
but let any user-coded mapping object be used instead of a dict (with
some way to set it... where __dict__ is a read-only attribute, it
might have to become r/w, or else some other way to set it might
be supplied -- e.g. a new setdict function).

That might be conceptually simplest for the Python programmer, just
generalizing the already widely-applicable idea that "like can be
substituted for like" to a few more cases.  It would require hunting
through the Python C sources for uses of PyDict_something to be
changed into PyMapping_whatever (thus it might be a 'pervasive'
mod, touching many source files, but conceptually it would seem
reasonably simple).

BTW, I just noticed in the docs (6.4 in the C/API reference) that
PyMapping_* appears _GetItem and _SetItem -- only the string
versions are documented -- and this seems to reflect what gets
exposed by the abstract.h headerfile.  I *am* somewhat confused;
are only strings valid keys in generic mapping objects (and if
so, why is PyMapping_DelItem provided in both generic and string
versions...)?


> C. But I still fail to see how using a factory function is an imperfect
> solution, other than for the sake of theory. Maybe Guido should Pronounce

I don't see any imperfection to factory-functions in OO theory,
either (a language which refuses to acknowledge anything _but_
'methods' might see factory-functions as factory-methods, of
course, but that's six of one, half a dozen of the other).


Alex






From becker.hoffmann at comcity-online.de  Fri Jan  5 14:51:44 2001
From: becker.hoffmann at comcity-online.de (Uwe Hoffmann)
Date: Fri,  5 Jan 2001 19:51:44 +0000 ()
Subject: AttributeError in ScientificPython, why?
Message-ID: <20010105195144.0195E4A867@riesenlamel>


Hi!

Daniel Reuter wrote:

> I recently installed ScientificPython, hope that someone on this list has
> some experiences with it.
> Now if I enter the following in interactive mode:
> 
> import Scientific.Functions.Derivatives
> import math
> from Scientific.Functions.Derivatives import DerivVar
> print math.sin(DerivVar(2))
> 
> I should, due to the manual get something like this:
> (0.909297426826, [-0.416146836547])
> ...
> ..., something wrong with my imports perhaps?

Your last statement is right! Don't use the math but the Numeric module.

import Scientific.Functions.Derivatives
import Numeric
from Scientific.Functions.Derivatives import DerivVar
print Numeric.sin(DerivVar(2))

Regards,

	Uwe



From tim.one at home.com  Sat Jan 13 02:22:11 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 02:22:11 -0500
Subject: making a string copy of a list
In-Reply-To: <slrn95vuqg.1pa.warlock@gargoyle.myth>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCCEGAIIAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Jim Richardson]
> OK, I swear I've looked for this, but how do I make a copy of a 
> list, into a string, complete with commas seperating the entries
> in the list?

Have you tried str()?

>>> x = [1, 2.5, "abc", (1, 2, 3), ['a', 'b']]
>>> s = str(x)
>>> len(s)
38
>>> print s
[1, 2.5, 'abc', (1, 2, 3), ['a', 'b']]
>>>




From fgeiger at datec.at  Fri Jan 26 09:49:59 2001
From: fgeiger at datec.at (Franz GEIGER)
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 15:49:59 +0100
Subject: Migrate Python prototype to C++: regex?
References: <94oti8$95v$1@newsreaderm1.core.theplanet.net>
Message-ID: <94s2p4$2s$1@newsreaderg1.core.theplanet.net>

Thank you Alex, thank you Tim,

looks very promising. Downloaded it already and will have a look at it over
weekend.

Thanks and best regards
Franz

"Franz GEIGER" <fgeiger at datec.at> wrote in message
news:94oti8$95v$1 at newsreaderm1.core.theplanet.net...
>
> This is probably off-topic but I guess Pythoneers have a better
> understanding of this question than C++ programmers only programming C++.
>
> I do a lot of prototyping with Python. A lot of those prototype have to be
> implemented in C++ (MSVC/MFC). STL gives (rather good) support of what
> Pythin already has built-in. But I strongly miss regex. How do you proceed
> in the case of regex in Python? Can anyone recommend a regex package for
> C++? Is there anything like that? Or do you write regexp an other way
round
> somehow?
>
> Thanks in advance and best regards
> Franz GEIGER
>
>
>
>




From syver at NOSPAMcyberwatcher.com  Wed Jan 10 08:49:29 2001
From: syver at NOSPAMcyberwatcher.com (Syver Enstad)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 14:49:29 +0100
Subject: embedding python in C++
References: <934r1a$pda$1@troll.powertech.no> <93a3lp01kpg@news1.newsguy.com> <93b02a$tr8$1@troll.powertech.no> <93cq6n0186t@news1.newsguy.com> <YmE66.99$k25.1060@news1.oke.nextra.no> <93fgim04oc@news1.newsguy.com> <93g8sp$pcj$1@troll.powertech.no> <93hgeq014d3@news2.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <mMZ66.1325$k25.19052@news1.oke.nextra.no>

"Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:93hgeq014d3 at news2.newsguy.com...
> Just reiterating an important point: this is true for *instances*,
> where such after-the-fact tagging is implemented; it may not be for
> a typical C-coded type, unless care is taken to let the caller set
> (and re-read) arbitrary attributes.

This is done by implementing setattr so that it assigns values to python
dictionary that is a member of the C type, right?




From x at y.com  Mon Jan 22 00:59:20 2001
From: x at y.com (x at y.com)
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 05:59:20 GMT
Subject: Timestamping JPEGs w/ PIL?
References: <mailman.980006598.21663.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Y_Pa6.2432$9v2.76312@quark.idirect.com>

PIL provides full text addition capabilities... as long as you can supply
the information, it can easily be done.  Adding text is covered in the PIL
manual, get it over at pythonware.com.

I created some PIL font libraries that may be useful; finding PIL fonts (or
good quality BDF fonts to convert) is the hardest part.  You can get
hundreds of them at:

http://www.cs.usyd.edu.au/~piers/python/pilfonts.html

Kevin Cazabon.



"Dirk Leas" <dirk at infostreet.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.980006598.21663.python-list at python.org...
| Is there a way to put a date/timestmap on JPEG files with PIL? My digicam
| can generate a data file with all sorts of stats on each picture. I'd like
| to be able to take that file, parse it, and batch iterate through each
| picture placing certain pieces of data in the bottom right corner of the
| picture (like you see on lots of 35mm/camcorder footage). Any advise on
| doing this with PIL would be appreciated. I also have access to gimp
should
| I need to create the text on the fly to be layered in.
|
| TIA,
| D
|
|




From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Thu Jan  4 12:37:41 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 18:37:41 +0100
Subject: 2001 Enchancement Wishlist
References: <3A4CEACB.220998A0@javanet.com> <Ro736.2511$Qb7.273102@newsb.telia.net> <92j83r13gh@news1.newsguy.com> <20001231175940.A5435@xs4all.nl> <008301c07501$c036ae40$43931497@martelli> <20010104165116.F2467@xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <008601c07675$0adf2020$102b2bc1@cadlab.it>

"Thomas Wouters" <thomas at xs4all.net> writes:

> > > > > already has a framework for creating exactly one instance of
> > > > > something: the module namespace).
> > > >
> > > > Pity that isn't as flexible as an object-instance -- can't define
> > > > special methods to determine how it will print, how it will
> > > > let usercode loop on its items, etc.
> > >
> > > Of course it can.
> >
> > The module can define a class-instance object (which can in turn
> > do these nice things), but it can't do them itself -- as you know
> > perfectly well, so it's peculiar that you would say otherwise.
>
> I'm afraid I don't understand the difference. Are you saying a class can't
> pretend to be a list by encapsulating it, because it wouldn't do the work

A class-instance _is_ 'as flexible' as itself -- it can present whatever
'face' it needs to client-code (however it chooses to implement or
delegate it) [well, _almost_ 'whatever' -- but close enough].  (It's
the _instance_ object that can 'pretend to be a list', NOT the _class_
object, of course; I'm nitpicking just because you later seem to be,
regarding my former use of 'object-instance' where 'class-instance'
was meant:-).

> itself ? Or that it can't do string operations because it doesn't do the
> operations itself, but rather asks the string object to do them (in 2.0)
or
> asks the strop module to do it (before 2.0) ?

Ditto, and no difference from the previous case.

A module object, in contrast, has no such flexibility.  It can of
course have *attributes*, which, as they can be anything (in particular,
they can be class-instances), are as flexible as can be -- but it
cannot present any 'face' to client-code, except its own.


> > > <spammodule.py>
> > > class _singleton:
> > > <whatever you want>
> > >
> > > SingleTon = _singleton()
> > >
> > > All that is required is for everyone to use spammodule.SingleTon.

This is like saying that, e.g., a dictionary object can be callable --
    dict = {}
    dict['callit'] = somefunction
"all that is required" is for everyone to use dict['callit']... i.e.,
the dict itself *ISN'T* callable, just because it can have one or more
items that are.  Or, similarly, a tuple -- tup=(somefunction,), and
then, "all that is required" is for everyone to use tup[0]...!  Again,
the *tuple* isn't callable, even though one or more of its items may be.

Similarly, as I said, the *module* "can't define" how it will
print, how it will let clientcode loop-on-its-items, and so on;
one or more of its attributes can of course do so, just like
one or more of the items in a tuple or dict, but that doesn't
transfer such defining-power to tuples, dicts, or modules
themselves.


> > So, if somebody complains that a Python lambda cannot contain
> > a for loop, will you answer "of course it can" in that it can (e.g.)
> > call a function which, in turn, IS able to contain such loops?
>
> Again, I don't see the difference. I'm sorry that I apparently pissed you
> off by explaining what I thought /F meant, but I can honestly say this is
> the first time I've been flamed without undestanding why :) Lambda's
cannot
> contain 'for' loops, but you can do a 'for' loop from a lambda, by

So, lambdas can USE (indirectly) for-loops, but they can't CONTAIN
one.  What do you mean "you don't see the difference"?  You've just
named it!

If Python didn't have lambdas at all, you could define functions
and pass them where you now use lambdas.  If Python didn't exist,
you could write machine-code performing exactly the same things.
Can you *really* not see the difference between an object having
and lacking a certain ability?!

> 'encapsulating' it in a function. Python lacks closures, but they can be
> faked using default-arguments.

I'm not convinced that this is 'faking', by the way.  But that's
another argument.

> Python doesn't have Perl's 'm//' or
> 'while(<>)', but you can achieve the same effect through the re and
> fileinput modules. Python lacks C's ability to do '*(0) = 42', but you can
> achieve a similar effect by using the signal module ;P

Right.  And when somebody writes "Python cannot issue a generic
syscall", you don't say "Of course it can." because C code can
be written that does so and which Python can call -- well, maybe
YOU do, judging from current form.  Moreover, you would then
also say that a Python _dictionary_ can issue the call, right?
Since it can have an item that's a C-written function that does...

That reduces the usefulness of the verb 'can' to zero --
everything can do anything, great.  Pah.

More sensible usage: if I say "I can't play the piano", one
doesn't respond "of course you can -- all it requires is
that you pay some pianist to play on your behalf"... that
would still be him, or her, playing, and it would not make
my statement false.  A preferable response might rather be
"if you can't, and still you need a piano played, you may
easily find good pianists that will perform the playing in
return for monetary compensation" -- still not very good,
as it assumes I don't know (or haven't thought of) such an
obvious solution, but still much better than the "of course
you can" falsehood.

Suppose that Python was changed, so that a class whose
name has an even number of characters cannot any more
define __str__, and so on.  If then somebody regretted
that his 'class Foop' "cannot define how" its instances
will be printed, etc, would you answer "of course it can"
since it can have an attribute X that instances a suitable
odd-number-of-chars named class -- that "all it takes"
is for everybody to use blak.X when referring to instances
of class Foop...?!


> What, exactly, are you objecting to ? That everything in Python is an
> object instance, whether you want it or not ?

Oh really?  Are you claiming, e.g., that the keyword 'for' is not
"in Python", or are you claiming that it's an object instance?  If
nit-picking is what you want, nit-picking we have to supply, no
worry.

What I object is not in Python, but rather in your answer: the
(false) assertion that 'of course' a module object 'can' define
how it will print, etc.  It can't, any more than, say, a dict
object, a tuple, etc -- some of their attributes/items may, but
that does not mean the objects themselves have this ability.

I wouldn't mind it if a module-object could define special
methods for such purposes, mind you, but I hardly think it
a make-or-break issue -- the pretty mild regret suitably
expressed, I think, by my original "pity that" sentence.


Alex





From pj at sgi.com  Thu Jan 18 14:41:08 2001
From: pj at sgi.com (Paul Jackson)
Date: 18 Jan 2001 19:41:08 GMT
Subject: Best way to learn Python ?
References: <aa8a6t895h8l3k2q7nmhd25oh6m7haulj9@4ax.com> <3A66211B.F7F4F6BB@bioeng.ucsd.edu> <mailman.979787798.3798.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <947gsk$bkrt$1@fido.engr.sgi.com>

Ken wrote that "TCPC" teaches Python.

I presume he means "Tom Christiansen Perl Consultancy":

    http://training.perl.com/open-courses.html
    "Yes, TCPC offers courses in Python, presented by Mark Lutz"
-- 
                          I won't rest till it's the best ...
                          Manager, Linux System Software
                          Paul Jackson <pj at sgi.com> 1.650.933.1373


From moshez at zadka.site.co.il  Sat Jan 13 10:46:32 2001
From: moshez at zadka.site.co.il (Moshe Zadka)
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 17:46:32 +0200 (IST)
Subject: Python Design Patterns (was Re: Should I learn Python or Java?)
In-Reply-To: <3cus5tk2n0qnhgfid5mnmauulc4gsjfnpb@4ax.com>
References: <3cus5tk2n0qnhgfid5mnmauulc4gsjfnpb@4ax.com>, <HEO56.5504$y9.2881293@typhoon.we.rr.com> <978840685.459818@emperor.labs.agilent.com> <3A5DF377.791E3DE0@comm.mot.com> <mailman.979261515.31284.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <20010113154632.DEC94A828@darjeeling.zadka.site.co.il>

On Thu, 11 Jan 2001 19:30:22 -0800, Daniel Klein <danielk at aracnet.com> wrote:

> Since you mention it, what is the pythonic way to implement a Singleton? You
> don't have to provide a complete answer, just a pointer as to where to start
> would be fine as I like to try to work these things out at first for myself.

See the last Python-URL!: the first link points to Alex Martelli's discussion
of factory methods. Read the thread, it has very good pointers.

-- 
Moshe Zadka <sig at zadka.site.co.il>
This is a signature anti-virus. 
Please stop the spread of signature viruses!



From Doug.Hellmann at ZapMedia.com  Thu Jan 18 17:43:30 2001
From: Doug.Hellmann at ZapMedia.com (Doug Hellmann)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 22:43:30 GMT
Subject: Automatic Documentation Tools?
References: <mailman.979786073.2627.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3A6771DB.3A16E00C@ZapMedia.com>

Check out HappyDoc (http://happydoc.sourceforge.net).

Doug

Terry Hancock wrote:
> 
> I've seen a number of automatically generated documentation
> on the web for C/C++ source code.  Is there anything like
> this for Python?  I've taken over documenting a piece of
> code, and it would be nice to at list have a list of classes,
> attributes, and methods from which to work.  Seems like it
> ought to be automateable, but I don't know the fastest way
> to do it.
> 
> Any suggestions?
> 
> --
> Terry Hancock
> hancock at earthlink.net


From tim.one at home.com  Sat Jan 20 18:38:54 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 18:38:54 -0500
Subject: Tabbing/Spaces
In-Reply-To: <14954.6786.554404.726121@anthem.wooz.org>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCGECAIKAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Johann Hibschman]
> My mistake.  I just recently upgraded my python-mode, and
> hadn't noticed the change, since I (setq indent-tabs-mode nil)
> in my .emacs.  Thanks for the info; it's good to see
> python-mode is sane.  :-)

[Barry A. Warsaw]
> T'was my primary goal after taking it over from the Timbot!

T'was my primary goal before push^H^H^H^Hhanding it off to you!  While Guido
has always been platform-neutral in theory, in practice he was undetectably
Unix-centric at the start ("undetectably" == I was using Unix too at the
time so didn't notice <wink>), and insisted on keeping the default indent
offset at 8 in pymode.  So every time I released a new pymode, I added a
note in the intro urging people to change the dumbass default themself
<wink>.  As some other heretic here recently mentioned, the Style Guide
still urges mixing tabs and spaces, dating from the later time when he was
overcome by the wisdom of 4-column indents, but still didn't really
*believe*-- not in his guts --that any system treated tab chars as anything
other than 8-column stops.  Indeed, "8" is still hardcoded in Python's
parser.  I'm told that's why Microsoft broke Windows tradition and hardcoded
8 into Notepad too ...

some-days-even-i-can't-tell-when-i'm-lying-ly y'rs  - tim




From phil at geog.ubc.ca  Mon Jan  8 19:57:55 2001
From: phil at geog.ubc.ca (Phil Austin)
Date: 08 Jan 2001 16:57:55 -0800
Subject: CXX/Array.h's Py::Array samples or documentation?
References: <XHs66.282$ip2.91379@news.pacbell.net>
Message-ID: <m3n1d18ru4.fsf@geog.ubc.ca>

Phlip <phlip_cpp at my-deja.com> writes:

> Pythonesqueise:

[snip]

> 
> So I think I can allocate a new array of the correct dimensions; pack it, 
> and assign it into the target array. But the example code for Py::Array 
> only shows how to create it with one dimension.

Although I'm sure there are better ways to do this,
here's a hacked version of CXX_Array.h that initializes a
multi-dimensional Py::Array using an stl vector of dimensions
(search on the string "fromVector" to see the changes)

#ifndef CXX_ARRAY_H__
#define CXX_ARRAY_H__
#include "CXX_Objects.h"
#include "Numeric/arrayobject.h"
#include <vector>

namespace Py {

  class Array: public Sequence
    {
    public:
      virtual bool accepts (PyObject *pyob) const {
        return pyob && PyArray_Check (pyob);
      }
    
      explicit Array (PyObject *pyob, bool owned = false): Sequence(pyob, owned) {
        validate();
      }
    
      Array(const Object& other): Sequence(*other) {
        validate();
      }
    
      Array& operator= (const Object& rhs) {
        return (*this = *rhs);
      }
    
      Array& operator= (PyObject* rhsp) {
        if(ptr() == rhsp) return *this;
        set(rhsp);
        return *this;
      }
    
      explicit Array (int n=0, PyArray_TYPES t = PyArray_DOUBLE)
        : Sequence(PyArray_FromDims(1, &n, t), true) {
        validate();
      }

      explicit Array (std::vector<int> dimens, PyArray_TYPES t = PyArray_DOUBLE)
        : Sequence(fromVector(dimens,t), true) {
        validate();
      }

      Array clone() const {
        PyObject *p = PyArray_CopyFromObject(ptr(), species(), rank(), rank());
        return Array(p, true);
      }

      int species() const {
        return PyArray_ObjectType(ptr(), 0);
      }

      int rank() const {
        return ((PyArrayObject*) ptr())->nd;
      }

      int dimension(int i) const {
        if (1 <= i && i <= rank()) {
	  return ((PyArrayObject*) ptr())->dimensions[i-1];
        } else {
	  return 1;
        }
      }

      int is_contiguous() const {
        return PyArray_ISCONTIGUOUS ((PyArrayObject*) ptr());
      }

      char* to_C() const {
        return ((PyArrayObject*) ptr())->data;
      }

      Array as_contiguous() {
        if (is_contiguous()) return Array(ptr());
        return Array((PyObject*)PyArray_ContiguousFromObject(ptr(), species(), 1, 0), true);
      }        

    private:
      PyObject* fromVector(const std::vector<int>& dimens, const PyArray_TYPES& t){
		int ndims=dimens.size();
		return (PyObject*) PyArray_FromDims(ndims, (int*) dimens.begin(), t);
      }
    };


  // the recommended species if converting to array
  int species(const Object& ob) {
    return PyArray_ObjectType(*ob, 0);
  }

  int species(PyObject *pyob) {
    return PyArray_ObjectType(pyob, 0);
  }

  Array toArray(PyObject* p) {
    int t = species(p);
    if (t < 0) { 
      throw RuntimeError("Unsuitable object for toArray");
    }
    return Array(PyArray_CopyFromObject(p, t, 1, 0), true);
  }

  Array toArray(const Object&ob) {
    return toArray(*ob);
  }

} // end namespace Py
#endif


Regards, Phil


From fredrik at effbot.org  Sun Jan 14 17:11:36 2001
From: fredrik at effbot.org (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 22:11:36 GMT
Subject: Does 'and' short circuit?
References: <93t6d3$pu$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <sup86.6609$AH6.992150@newsc.telia.net>

noahspurrier at my-deja.com wrote:
> Does the 'and' statement short-circuit?

Yes.

>    For example are the following statements safe?
>    x={'notfoo':1}
>    if x.has_key('foo') and x.get('foo') == 1:
>        print 'bar'

Well, that would be safe even if "and" didn't short-circuit
("get" returns None if the key doesn't exist).

I suppose you meant:

    if x.has_key('foo') and x['foo'] == 1:
        print 'bar'

which is probably better written as:

    if x.get('foo') == 1:
        print 'bar'

> I have not been able to find a confirmation to this
> in the online documentation or tutorial.

    http://www.python.org/doc/current/ref/lambda.html
    "Boolean operations"

    "The expression x and y first evaluates x; if x is false,
    its value is returned; otherwise, y is evaluated and the
    resulting value is returned"

Cheers /F




From grante at visi.com  Wed Jan 17 17:06:26 2001
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 22:06:26 GMT
Subject: threading: how to kill a (possibly blocked) thread?
References: <3A649FE4.E582D0E0@ll.mit.edu> <u1yu2vmiq.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com> <944ekb$ri$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <Kvl96.137$eI2.88934@ruti.visi.com> <944rm3$dg4$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <CHo96.170$eI2.98447@ruti.visi.com>

In article <944rm3$dg4$1 at nnrp1.deja.com>, rturpin at my-deja.com wrote:

>> Where does set_interrupt come from?
>
>You didn't read my post. The second sentence after:
>"Unfortunately, I don't see such a facility in the
>library." I was describing what I want, not what is
>there. I share your disappointment.

Doh!  I'd been worrying about that particular problem for a
while and I guess I got too excited when I saw the first part
of the post and just plain missed that sentence.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  My FAVORITE group
                                  at               is "QUESTION MARK & THE
                               visi.com            MYSTERIANS"...


From nils.hensel at online.de  Mon Jan 22 16:25:16 2001
From: nils.hensel at online.de (Nils Hensel)
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 22:25:16 +0100
Subject: Control of __doc__ strings
References: <mailman.980197704.24948.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <94i8if$c9f$1@news.online.de>

You must invoke python with the -OO argument. This will exclude debugging
info and doc strings from the bytecode.
Try "python --help" for more info.

Enjoy Python,
Nils


"Terry Hancock" <hancock at earthlink.net> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:mailman.980197704.24948.python-list at python.org...
> Following a previous thread on this list about
> automatic documenters, I've tried a couple,
> and there seems to be a strong preference for
> documentation strings over comments (they seem
> to be easier to associate with the object they
> describe, which makes sense to me).
>
> Anyway, not being a "native python speaker"
> I used comments in most of my code.  So I changed
> my comment blocks to doc strings and put them
> in the right places to get captured by the
> documenter ("Crystal" in this case).  But I'm
> concerned about the performance penalties of
> doing this.  A typical source module of mine
> contains anywhere from 3 to 5 times as much text
> in comment blocks as in the code, so if it's
> all loaded at run time, my code is going to bloat
> up several fold just because of the documentation.
>
> (Comments are stripped out during byte-compilation,
> whereas doc strings are kept at run time).
>
> Does python have a way to shut off a piece of
> code during byte-compiling (the way that a
> #ifdef ... #endif block works in C)?  Then I
> could just turn the doc strings off for deliverable
> code and leave them in during development, which
> would be kind of useful, and the documenters would
> work right.
>
> I thought of:
>
> if <condition> :
>     """
>     Documentation block.
>     """
>
> but this runs at run-time, therefore the string is
> still included in the byte-compiled code (right?).
>
> --
> Terry Hancock
> hancock at earthlink.net
>




From bryan at eevolved.com  Sun Jan 28 14:16:02 2001
From: bryan at eevolved.com (Bryan Mongeau)
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 19:16:02 GMT
Subject: Anyone get python on win98??
References: <WXZc6.8032$KP3.2632221@news3.rdc1.on.home.com>
Message-ID: <Sd_c6.15114$fe1.211288@news20.bellglobal.com>

>From the command line type:

C:\programming\python20> python script.py

-- 
<==================================>
Bryan Mongeau
Lead Developer, Director
eEvolved Real-Time Technologies Inc.
www.eevolved.com
<==================================>

"No, this trick won't work...How on earth are you ever going to explain in 
terms of chemistry and physics so important a biological phenomenon as 
first love?"-- Einstein



From gregj at pobox.com  Sun Jan 14 16:28:05 2001
From: gregj at pobox.com (Greg Jorgensen)
Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 21:28:05 GMT
Subject: reading line by line
References: <I4i86.290010$_5.65173315@news4.rdc1.on.home.com>
Message-ID: <93t5kv$8e$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

In article <I4i86.290010$_5.65173315 at news4.rdc1.on.home.com>,
  msoulier at storm.ca wrote:
>
>     Hey people. I know that the readlines() method in file objects
allows line
> by line reading, but it seems to read the entire file first, which is
far too
> memory intensive if you're reading a massive file. Now, I know that
you can do
> this:
>
> file = open(filename, "r")
> line = file.readline()
> while line:
>     # work on file
>     line = file.readline()
>
>     But I don't like the initial readline() call to initialize line.

The standard Python idiom described by Frederik Lundh is the way to
read a single file line by line. You should also see the fileinput
module. That module can read multiple files, and gives you an iterator
for the file(s):

import fileinput

for line in fileinput.input(filename):
    print line


--
Greg Jorgensen
Portland, Oregon, USA
gregj at pobox.com


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From aahz at panix.com  Sat Jan  6 12:19:10 2001
From: aahz at panix.com (Aahz Maruch)
Date: 6 Jan 2001 09:19:10 -0800
Subject: Pythonian string manipulation.
References: <937if5$r9q$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <937k2e$a8i$1@panix2.panix.com>

In article <937if5$r9q$1 at nnrp1.deja.com>,  <johnvert at my-deja.com> wrote:
>
>I was playing around with slices in Python (is that the correct term?)
>and I tried, in order to switch the words `hello,' and `world', to do:
>
>s = 'hello, world'
>l = s.find(',')
>s[0:l] = s[l + 1:]
>
>which in theory would seem to work, but I get the error:
>
>Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>TypeError: object doesn't support slice assignment
>
>my two questions are: why isn't this allowed, and what is the Pythonian
>way of doing this?

Strings are immutable, so you can't assign to a slice.  Here's what I'd
do:

s = 'hello, world'
l = s.split(', ')
l.reverse()
s = string.join(l, ', ')

(I'm assuming you're using Python 2.0 because of the s.find())
-- 
                      --- Aahz (Copyright 2000 by aahz at pobox.com)

Androgynous poly kinky vanilla queer het    <*>     http://www.rahul.net/aahz/
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6

"This is Usenet.  We're all masturbating in public places."  -DH


From ommadawn at club-internet.fr  Wed Jan  3 12:20:11 2001
From: ommadawn at club-internet.fr (Christophe Prevost)
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2001 17:20:11 -0000
Subject: Sample script using MySQLdb ?
Message-ID: <92vjfd$p63$1@reader1.imaginet.fr>

Hi,

Somebody have a quite complete script using this module?

Thanks!




From samurai at ep.newtimes.com  Thu Jan 11 11:15:11 2001
From: samurai at ep.newtimes.com (Erik Stephens)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 09:15:11 -0700
Subject: Defining a new exception with multiple args
References: <gnir5t80r7asgcp36jtssum2mspk5i5h4d@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3A5DDC0F.228F23F1@ep.newtimes.com>

Daniel Klein wrote:
> 
> class RecordNotFoundException(Exception):
>     def __init__(self, filename, recordid):
>         self.filename = filename
>         self.recordid = recordid
> 
> Why is it showing '<unprintable instance object>' instead of the arguments I
> passed?

Judging from the source code, it should print an empty string.  I don't
know why '<unprintable instance object>' is coming back.  What version
of Python are you using?

>From Python 1.5.2 exceptions.py:

...

class Exception:
    """Proposed base class for all exceptions."""
    def __init__(self, *args):
        self.args = args

    def __str__(self):
        if not self.args:
            return ''
        elif len(self.args) == 1:
            return str(self.args[0])
        else:
            return str(self.args)

    def __getitem__(self, i):
        return self.args[i]

...

Try adding this to your __init__ method:

    Exception.__init__(self, filename, recordid)
    
-Erik


From cbarker at jps.net  Fri Jan 26 16:25:45 2001
From: cbarker at jps.net (cbarker at jps.net)
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 21:25:45 GMT
Subject: Tkinter vs wxPython: your opinions?
References: <3A6F899F.E164F628@home.com>
Message-ID: <94sq0d$f8l$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

Hi all,

There have been a lot of good comments in this thread so far, and no
nastiness (this really is a great newsgroup). I have a few things to
add.

1) while tkInter works on the Macintosh, it is not well supported there,
and a lot of us have problems with it. wxWindows is in pretty good shape
on the Mac, and a wxPython wrapper is supposed to be in the works,
although that has been said for a long time now. I still have hope.

2) wxPython is a very thin wrapper around wxWindows which is a C++
application framework. This is a good thing for two reasons:
 - The wrapper code can all (or most anyway) be generated with SWIG, so
wxPython can be updated almost as fast as wxWindows. This is nice since
wxWindows is under active development, and any bugs fixed in wxWindows
can propogate very quickly to wxPython
 - You only need one set of Docs. This is also good for the above
reasons. The docs are about C++ with a few Python notes. This is pretty
off-putting for first timers, but I found that once I got past that
first steep part of the learning curve, I've found it to be no problem.
I have never written a C++ program, and only a few smal C programs.
Python programmers can pick it up easily, I assure you.

The downside of the close link between the C++ and Python is that there
are a number of things that are not very Pythonesque. The most obvous
thing that comes to mind is event tables. I find myself writing three
lines of code for what could be done with one (asd far as I can tell) an
example (from the demo)

ID_ABOUT_MENU = 200
help_menu.Append(ID_ABOUT_MENU,
                 "&About",
                 "More information About this program")
EVT_MENU(self, ID_ABOUT_MENU, self.OnAbout)


When would I want a menu item , without an function attached to the
EVT_MENU ? IF i want tou use a name to label the itemI need another line
of code to do that.

I'd like to see:
help_menu.Append(ID_ABOUT_MENU,
                 "&About",
                 "More information About this program",
                 callback = self.OnAbout)

That would make a lot more sense, but frankly, it's really just a small
annoyance once you get used to it.

3) The tk canvas is a wonderful thing, and something like it is sorely
missed in wxPython. Fortunately, a wxCanvas is in the works. It is a
work in progress, but it looks pretty promising stay tuned, and If
you're a C++ programmer, help out!

4) Another plus of wxPython is that it is based on a C++ application
framework,and as such can be used with a Python interpreter embedded in
a wxWindows app. What is done in Python, and what is done in C++ can
become very fluid.

I have also written a Vector object Canvas in wxPython that makes things
much easier for me. when it's a little more polished, I intend to
release it, but if you're intersted, send me a note.

4) wxPython Sizers look to be a very powerful way to set up a bunch of
controls, particularly dynamically. They are, unfortunaely, not all that
well docuemnted (at least not in a learn to use them format), and a bit
harder to grasp that tk's pack. However, while I could whip together a
quick dialog with pack very easily at my first attempt, I found that
when things got a little more comples, it took a long time to figure out
all the nested frames that I had to use. wxPython sizers look like they
will be much easier for this once I have them figured out.


In summary, it seems to be a common thread that the learning curve for
tk is less steep at the begining, but once you get the hang of wxPython,
people find they are just as (if not more) productive. I think a good
canvas widget will really bridge the gap, it is a real show stopper for
some folks.

Another note I'd like to make is that the wxWindows developers are very
supportive of wxPython. When questions and bugs crop up in wxPython that
are really wxWindows issues, we always get a good response.


Another final Big comment:

While this discusion was started by someone that is trying to choose a
toolbax NOW, if seems that in general, the discussion is always about
what strengths or weeknesses tkinter, wxPyton, PyQT, fxPy, etc. have
now. What no one seems to be talking about is what Python needs in the
way of a GUI toolbox Every gui option for Python is a wrapper around
something that was intended to be used for something else. The result is
that none of them really feel Pythonesque, and usually suffer from
perfomance issues as well.

Is anyone considering a real native Python GUI option? This, of course
would be a monsterous effort to do from scratch, but it wouldn't
neccesarily have to be started from scratch, It could start as a
thick(rather than thin) wrapper around an existing toolbox, with the
goal that pieces of it would be converted to more "native" code as we
wnet along. A great final goal would be a C++ application framework that
used the native Python datatypes, so you could have easy back and forth
between the languages. What was implimented in C++ or Python could be
very fluid. Perhaps a melding of wxWindows (or Fox, or whatever) with
Cxx. Anyway, that's my fantasy.

-Chris












Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From richmedium at mediaone.net  Tue Jan  2 15:05:09 2001
From: richmedium at mediaone.net (Denis Voitenko)
Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2001 20:05:09 GMT
Subject: HTML Parsing
Message-ID: <Vvq46.6762$ca.70091@typhoon.jacksonville.mediaone.net>

I am trying to do some HTML parsing with htmllib but not getting anywhere.
Can someone give a couple of basic examples?




From sandj.williams at gte.net  Mon Jan  1 18:00:56 2001
From: sandj.williams at gte.net (Steve Williams)
Date: Mon, 01 Jan 2001 23:00:56 GMT
Subject: Electronic edition of 'The Standard Python Library'
References: <t7746.63812$59.17990421@news3.rdc1.on.home.com> <4f746.2529$AH6.401534@newsc.telia.net>
Message-ID: <3A510D5F.46ABEE01@gte.net>

Fredrik Lundh wrote:

> "Tom" <NoSpam at NoSpam.com> wrote:
> > I tried to use my electronic copy of 'The Standard Python Library' today
> > (Jan 1), but was unable to.
>
> the fatbrain edition?  the mightywords edition?  the glassbook
> edition?  have you contacted customer support?
>
> > It is possible that I did something wrong - I have no idea - but I would
> > caution anyone else who might be considering buying this.  The book is fine,
> > but the format is a complete hassle.  You pay your money, but you don't
> > really get the book.
>
> well, nothing stops you from printing it...
>
> </F>

Well, no.  I have no working printer.  Plus, I prefer digital media to dead
trees--accessability, portability, searchability.  That said, the last time I
tried to open my fatbrain edition of your fine work, I received a message
complaining about some registry entry.  My loss. . .




From sheila at spamcop.net  Sat Jan 20 17:40:07 2001
From: sheila at spamcop.net (Sheila King)
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 22:40:07 GMT
Subject: Translating a Perl script into Python
References: <vo9i6t04nhurgv2avmgoss4mg86ofcuhtv@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <mr3k6ts2pcnpdgt0a2raln8972r19gknbn@4ax.com>

Thanks to everyone for the comments. So far, I've tweaked the program a bit.
I'm pleased with how it's looking, now. But, I still have a question about the
whole "exception" issue, near the end of this post.

On Sat, 20 Jan 2001 05:57:03 GMT, Sheila King <sheila at thinkspot.net> wrote in
comp.lang.python in article <vo9i6t04nhurgv2avmgoss4mg86ofcuhtv at 4ax.com>:

:As part of my learning exercises, I've been attempting to translate a short
:perl script into Python.
...<snipped>...
:Here is the original Perl script:
:------------------------------------------------------------
:#!/usr/local/bin/perl
:
:@slurp = <>;
:@qmail = qw(SENDER NEWSENDER RECIPIENT USER HOME HOST LOCAL EXT EXT2 EXT3
:EXT4 DTLINE RPLINE UFLINE);
:open PROC, ">proc.test" || die "Couldn't open file for write: $!";
:$id = `/usr/bin/id`;
:print PROC "ID: $id\n";
:print PROC "Environment Variables\n";
:foreach $key (@qmail) {
:  print PROC "$key = $ENV{$key}\n";
:}
:print PROC "\nSlurp\n";
:print PROC @slurp;
:close PROC;
:------------------------------------------------------------

Here is my new, improved Python version:

------------------------------------------------------------
#! /big/dom/xthinkspot/Python-2.0/python

import sys, os, commands, string

slurp = sys.stdin.read()
qmail = string.split("SENDER NEWSENDER RECIPIENT USER HOME HOST LOCAL EXT EXT2
EXT3 EXT4 DTLINE RPLINE UFLINE")
PROC = open("proc.test","w")
id = commands.getoutput("/usr/bin/id")
PROC.write("ID: "+id+"\n\n")
PROC.write("Environment Variables\n")
for key in qmail:
	PROC.write(key + " = " + os.environ[key] + "\n")
PROC.write("\nSlurp\n")
PROC.write(slurp)
PROC.close()
------------------------------------------------------------

I've tested in under both Python 1.5.1 and Python 2.0, so it works fine in
both versions.

And now for a question about exceptions:
I was searching the archives of the Tutor mailing list at Python.org and found
a message that addressed exactly this topic.

My understanding, now, of this situation (someone please confirm this):
Perl's "die" statement basically causes the program to exit.
Python, on trying to open the file, will throw an exception if the file is not
able to be opened, and the program will automatically halt (or "die") if I do
nothing to handle the exception. Also, it will print an appropriate error
message to stderr without my doing anything special to cause that.

If I wanted the program to not "die", I would have to handle the exception
somehow. The point is, this script is so short, and relies on the file being
opened when the script is invoked, if it cannot do so, the only appropriate
course of action at that point is to halt execution of the script.

--
Sheila King
http://www.thinkspot.net/sheila/
http://www.k12groups.org/





From dsh8290 at rit.edu  Fri Jan 19 13:01:01 2001
From: dsh8290 at rit.edu (D-Man)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 13:01:01 -0500
Subject: Distribution issues
Message-ID: <20010119130101.I4478@harmony.cs.rit.edu>

I am currently working with a Java environment and have found some
rather nice features.  Jar files (Java ARchive) store all your .class
(bytecode) files in one file.  The JVM knows how to look in the jar
and locate the packages and classes.  In addition, you can store your
icons, help documents, internationalization files (ie Properties-Java or
.po-C, GNU gettext) and locate them on any system very easily.

To distribute, you simply jar your files together and ship it.  The
user still needs a JVM, but that isn't a big issue (to me).  (Jar is
very similar to tar or zip)

Is there a similar thing for python?  Would it be useful to create
such a thing?  How to pythoneers solve the problem of locating
resources in a cross-platform way?  (Ie, can't always look in
/usr/share/myapp/ or C:\Program Files\My App , etc.)  One solution
might be to have a config file somewhere that provides the location of
other resources.  This is also a problem because the location of the
config isn't known  (might not be in /etc or c:\windows).

-D




From birgit.jauernig at aon.at  Sun Jan  7 09:04:25 2001
From: birgit.jauernig at aon.at (Birgit Jauernig)
Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2001 15:04:25 +0100
Subject: Should I learn Python or Java?
References: <HEO56.5504$y9.2881293@typhoon.we.rr.com>
Message-ID: <3a587654$0$16542@SSP1NO25.highway.telekom.at>

> 1.  Which language would be best to learn, Java or Python.  From a VB
> standpoint, which has the least learning curve?

First I learned Java with much effort (over 2 years). My programming
background is simple: JavaScript and Perl. I first tried out Python in
August 2000 and I switched to JPython because for me it was the most easiest
way to try out all those javax.swing features directly from the JPython
interpreter command-line. Now it tends me back to Java because I like all
that checking features the Java compiler gives to me (personally I don?t
deal very well with weak-typed references).

Birgit Jauernig





From duncan at rcp.co.uk  Wed Jan  3 05:21:05 2001
From: duncan at rcp.co.uk (Duncan Booth)
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2001 10:21:05 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: using 'global' across source files.
References: <3A51E6B7.82FFE8F4@sara.nl> <92sqc8$nm9$1@news.wrc.xerox.com> <3A52EE2C.32432EF5@sara.nl>
Message-ID: <901E6321Bduncanrcpcouk@194.238.50.13>

bram at sara.nl (Bram Stolk) wrote in <3A52EE2C.32432EF5 at sara.nl>:

>And because I can do:
>dir(__builtins__)
>
>I thought, why the heck doesn't dir(__main__) work?
>

Did you try importing the __main__ module before referring to it?:
   import __main__
   dir(__main__)



From thomas at xs4all.net  Wed Jan 24 18:38:33 2001
From: thomas at xs4all.net (Thomas Wouters)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 00:38:33 +0100
Subject: beep again
In-Reply-To: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCOEPKIKAA.tim.one@home.com>; from tim.one@home.com on Wed, Jan 24, 2001 at 04:38:26PM -0500
References: <94n5td$gu1$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCOEPKIKAA.tim.one@home.com>
Message-ID: <20010125003833.E962@xs4all.nl>

On Wed, Jan 24, 2001 at 04:38:26PM -0500, Tim Peters wrote:

> [Mark Hammond]
> > The Python test suite has the following:
> >
> > import winsound
> > for i in range(100, 2000, 100):
> >     winsound.Beep(i, 75)
> > print "Hopefully you heard some sounds increasing in frequency!"

> LOL!  I never noticed that.

How do you think us unsuspecting Linux users felt when we were just normally
compiling Python 2.0, not listening to music for a change, run make test,
and suddently the too-loud speakers yell 'NOBODY EXPECTS THE SPANISH
INQUISITION!' ? Let me tell you, I nearly had a coronary the first time it
happened to me :) Apparently, the times I compiled Python on my office PC,
from home, I scared a few of my colleagues and an innocent cleaning lady,
too... nowadays I make sure to tune down the sound before running make test
:)

-- 
Thomas Wouters <thomas at xs4all.net>

Hi! I'm a .signature virus! copy me into your .signature file to help me spread!



From chris at voodooland.net  Mon Jan 15 17:43:50 2001
From: chris at voodooland.net (Chris Watson)
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 16:43:50 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Interacting with a spawned ssh session?
In-Reply-To: <3A63781F.D8CDB6DC@sas.upenn.edu>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.21.0101151635420.63233-100000@open-systems.net>

> 
> 	I'm having two problems with one function.
> 
> 	I want to be able to spawn an ssh session to another computer, and then
> interact with that session through python commands. (this is on a linux
> system)
> 
> 	The first problem is feeding the password to ssh; I believe that it
> wants it's own tty.

WARNING! WARNING! DANGER WILL ROBINSON! DANGER!

This is a SERIOUS design flaw. Do not do this. Use rsa keys. Unless you
don't care about security. But you are using ssh so I assume you do.

> send commands to that ssh session, and read back/parse the results.
> 
> 	I've looked at the pty module, but must not be understanding its
> functionality, as I can't get a pty.fork()'d file descriptor to allow me
> to perform commands. I'd like to keep away from popen (for security
> reasons, though I'm not certain any other method could be considered
> secure either), but am still having trouble interacting with the spawned
> process (in this case a telnet session; for simplicity).

Well popen is no more insecure then storing a cleartext password to feed
to ssh above. So I dont see what the problem is in that area.

> 	Can anyone provide me with, or point me to, any examples of how to use
> python to do roughly what I'm describing?

Im sure someone will tell you exactly how to manipulate a running process.
But PLEASE use rsa keys for ssh and not passwords. 

--
=============================================================================
-Chris Watson         (316) 326-3862 | FreeBSD Consultant, FreeBSD Geek 
Work:              scanner at jurai.net | Open Systems Inc., Wellington, Kansas
Home:  scanner at deceptively.shady.org | http://open-systems.net
=============================================================================
WINDOWS: "Where do you want to go today?"
LINUX: "Where do you want to go tomorrow?"
BSD: "Are you guys coming or what?"
=============================================================================
GNU = Gnu's Non-portable & Unstable
irc.openprojects.net #FreeBSD -Join the revolution!
ICQ: 20016186




From fredrik at effbot.org  Sat Jan 20 07:16:49 2001
From: fredrik at effbot.org (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 12:16:49 GMT
Subject: How to chop list n-elements at a time
References: <94bjs8$5nn$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <Rkfa6.7750$AH6.1222472@newsc.telia.net>

Kevin Parks wrote:
> I've been at this a while and can't seem to get it to work. I am
> wondering if others know how, have tried, or already have written a
> func to package up list elements in sublists n at a time.
>
> I was able to get something that worked for bunches of 1, or 2, but i
> am wondering how to make the tool more general so that i could say:
>
> x=[1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9]
>
> bunch(x,1) --> [[1], [2], [3], [4], [5], [6], [7], [8], [9]]
> bunch(x, 2) --> [[1,2], [3,4], [5,6], [7,8], [9, None]
> bunch(x, 3) --> [[1,2,3], [4,5,6], [7,8,9]]
> bunch(x, 4) --> [1,2,3,4], [5,6,7,8] [9, None, None, None]]

how about:

def bunch(mylist, times):
    out = [mylist[i:i+times] for i in range(0, len(mylist), times)]
    if out:
        out[-1].extend([None] * (times - len(out[-1])))
    return out

Cheers /F

<!-- (the eff-bot guide to) the standard python library:
http://www.pythonware.com/people/fredrik/librarybook.htm
-->





From pbjorn at uswest.net  Thu Jan  4 09:54:08 2001
From: pbjorn at uswest.net (Bjorn Pettersen)
Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 07:54:08 -0700
Subject: why no "do : until"?
References: <92jj3j$ff7$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <slrn94shbe.150.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <X8s36.2731$Qb7.305339@newsb.telia.net> <slrn94smds.150.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <FOt36.17$vd1.2224@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com> <slrn94t1vj.150.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <3A4E95FD.D6C737A7@engcorp.com> <slrn94tqkh.150.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <tpr46.7782$4c.597534@ruti.visi.com> <slrn954h6p.rgv.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <3A52AD6A.62D043A2@engcorp.com> <3A534367.36B1FD18@uswest.net> <slrn957j19.go.amk@207-172-36-81.s81.tnt6.ann.va.dialup.rcn.com> <3A53F4B1.6227D241@uswest.net> <3A540D6A.B7B90A73@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <3A548E90.14BA5F4C@uswest.net>

Peter Hansen wrote:

> Bjorn Pettersen wrote:
> > and you'll have half a dozen people jumping on your back telling you that
> > "while 1" is simple, intuitive, and is the only Pythonic way to do things
> > (you'll have half a dozen other people trying to come up with some clever
> > wrapper to solve the problem they think you have <wink>).
>
> That's hardly being fair.  I just checked back on the entire thread up
> to this point and, while I may have missed something, it doesn't appear
> that _anyone_ suggested 'while 1' is either simple or intuitive.

You forget how many of these we have a year... I believe the October/Novemeber
one included that comment. Are you saying you don't think "while 1" is neither
simple nor intuitive? (I think it's simple, but definitely not intuitive ;-)

> Various people have said it is the _idiomatic_ way of expressing the
> required structure in Python, but that's not the same as saying it's
> "Pythonic", IMHO.  I think that term is generally reserved for something
> without the trace of ugliness that many of us seem to agree is present
> here.

Yet, it seems to be referred to as a Pydiom, i.e. a Pythonic idiom....

> Neither did I notice anyone jumping on anyone else's back for suggesting
> alternatives to 'while 1', just people pointing out reasons those
> suggestions likely won't be implemented (such as for indentation issues).
>
> (Apologies in advance if calling you unfair seems to be an "ad hominem"
> attack.  The nature of the medium tends to make comments intended as
> merely sarcastic to appear much more personal than intended.
> Allowances need to be made when interpreting intent.)

Attacking a persons ideas or logic is of course fair game in any discussion,
attacking their intelligence, intention, competence, etc., while common on
usenet is something we've usually been isolated from on c.l.py (we're known as
the friendly group <wink>).

-- bjorn




From spenrose at well.com  Thu Jan 11 01:09:57 2001
From: spenrose at well.com (Sam Penrose)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 22:09:57 -0800
Subject: Web devel with python. Whats the best route?
References: <93cqvi0191h@news1.newsguy.com> <mailman.978910629.6814.python-list@python.org> <mailman.978975978.19612.python-list@python.org> <spenrose-E755EB.22423209012001@news.dnai.com> <93hfp1013sm@news2.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <spenrose-149DD9.22095710012001@news.dnai.com>

In article <93hfp1013sm at news2.newsguy.com>, "Alex Martelli" 
<aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote:

> > In contrast to Alex's comments, however, we do not place Python
> > statements within HTML. We stick with string substitution keys,
> 
> That's nice, but in my very first application I needed to
> generate a variable number of repetitions of a table-row,
> depending on values computed from the Python side of things.
> 
> Rather than reinvent loop-syntax &c, I found it simplest to
> embed a for statement in the HTML template, a la:
> 
> +for i in range(len(results)):
>     <TR> <TD><B>@i@</B></TD> <TD>@results[i]@</TD> </TR>
> -
> 
> All the presentation logic goes into the template, all of
> the computation into the Python CGI script, and my little
> yaptu.py (yet another python template utility, of course)
> bridges the gap (with about 50 SLOC's, plus comments,
> docstrings, and test pushing it to a bit over 100 lines).

1) There is an irreducible need to either put Python statements into 
HTML or HTML tidbits into Python. You've chosen the former; my 
preference is for the latter:

localList = []
row = '<TR> <TD><B>%s</B></TD> <TD>%s</TD> </TR>'
for i in range(len(results)):
   localList.append(row % (i, results[i]))
rows = string.join(localList, '')
print myTemplate % {'rows':rows}

Typically what I do is print a crude page with interwoven data, give it 
to an HTML specialist to make it look nice, and then dig out of their 
version a sample row with their contributions ('<td align = center 
height="17" bgcolor="blahblahblah">'), and swap string substitution 
markers back in for the data to get the final version of my variable.

2) You appear to use '+' and '@' (and '-'?) as non-Python, non-HTML 
markers to indicate the border between the two languages. One of the 
reasons I don't like systems involving executable language statements 
embedded in HTML, such as Zope, is that they all seem to require such 
markers. There are two costs associated with this:
   i. Yet Another Syntax to learn. Someone who knows Python and HTML 
(me, for example) will not know how the syntax works. It looks as though 
you are using the '+' (an otherwise valid HTML character) to indicate 
the beginning of a Python block and the paired '@' markers for string 
substitution--but there might be regular expressions involved. I can't 
tell.
   ii. Another layer of magic characters to parse in BOTH HTML and 
Python--quick, how do you tell the difference between the '@' marking a 
Python variable, the '@' in an email address and the '@' and end user 
typed as an abbreviation for 'at' in a data chunk that you are 
re-inserting into your template for some reason? What about '+' in URLs 
and Python statements? Presumbaly there are rules (Yet Another Syntax), 
conventions (documented or otherwise), workarounds for troublesome 
cases, etc., but you've inherently added a third layer of logic, whose 
interaction with the Python and HTML layers will, in non-trivial 
projects, require non-trivial management.

3) Those costs seem to have been worth it for you and many others 
(Digital Creations not least). I don't wish to argue with how others get 
their work done if that's what works for them. I do want to note that 
straight Python and HTML work fine for projects involving thousands of 
lines of Python in a couple dozen modules and hundreds of HTML files.


From paulb at infercor.no  Mon Jan 22 05:28:47 2001
From: paulb at infercor.no (Paul Boddie)
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 11:28:47 +0100
Subject: Modifying .htpasswd from Python?
References: <90312091gustaflalgonetse@194.213.69.148> <3A6BCCEC.EA8CE857@stroeder.com> <90316137Fgustaflalgonetse@194.213.69.148>
Message-ID: <3A6C0B5F.7859CC31@infercor.no>

Gustaf Liljegren wrote:
> 
> michael at stroeder.com (Michael Str?der) wrote:
> 
> >Gustaf Liljegren wrote:
> >>
> >> This can be done easily in Perl, using the crypt() function. Now I
> >> need a Python function doing exactly the same encryption as the
> >> htpasswd command.
> >
> >See module crypt.
> 
> I saw it, but couldn't import it, and by the docs it seems to be only
> decrypting.

At least in Python 1.5.2, the 'crypt' module isn't automatically built.
If you built Python from source, you could take a look at the
'Modules/Setup' file and see if there's a line like this:

#crypt cryptmodule.c # -lcrypt  # crypt(3); needs -lcrypt on some systems

If so, remove the '#', tailor the link options (which will depend on
your operating system and where the libraries are to be found), then
build (and install) Python again. I think that should work.

Regards,

Paul


From glenfant at equod.com.nospam  Tue Jan 23 09:10:02 2001
From: glenfant at equod.com.nospam (Gilles Lenfant)
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 15:10:02 +0100
Subject: Editor font in IDLE (Linux)
References: <mailman.980252066.30237.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <94k31p$geg$1@reader1.imaginet.fr>

Thanks...

But for deployment reasons, I need a solution that works with Python 1.5.2
that does not run IDLE 0.6 (some Unicode constants and others).

After a quick view, hacking IDLE 0.6 to make it work with Python 1.5.2 is
more difficult than it seemed at first.

"Simon Brunning" <SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk> a ?crit dans le message news:
mailman.980252066.30237.python-list at python.org...
> > From: Gilles Lenfant [SMTP:glt at e-pack.net]
> > There is no "config-unix.txt" file in any Python related directory.
> > Perhaps you are using another IDLE version than mine (0.5).
>
> The file that Bryan mentioned was introduced in IDLE version 0.6. Why not
> upgrade to that version?
>
> Cheers,
> Simon Brunning
> TriSystems Ltd.
> sbrunning at trisystems.co.uk
>
>
>
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> The information in this email is confidential and may be legally
privileged.
> It is intended solely for the addressee. Access to this email by anyone
else
> is unauthorised. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure,
> copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in
> reliance on it, is prohibited and may be unlawful. TriSystems Ltd. cannot
> accept liability for statements made which are clearly the senders own.
>



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Mon Jan 29 09:41:16 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 15:41:16 +0100
Subject: SICP subsets exercise in python?
References: <980725379.806449@emperor.labs.agilent.com>
Message-ID: <953veg010to@news2.newsguy.com>

"Brian Zhou" <brian_zhou at agilentNOSPAM.com> wrote in message
news:980725379.806449 at emperor.labs.agilent.com...
> Just curious if I can do it easily in Python, kind of give up after a few
> tries. Anyone?
>
> /Brian
>
>
> Exercise. We can represent a set as a list of distinct elements, and we
can
> represent the set of all subsets of the set as a list of lists. For
example,
> if the set is (1 2 3), then the set of all subsets is (() (3) (2) (2 3)
(1)
> (1 3) (1 2) (1 2 3)). Complete the following definition of a procedure
that

In Python, one would normally operate iteratively, just as in Scheme one
normally operates with tail recursion (the power is the same, but the
two different approaches are appropriate to the two languages).

There is an obvious isomorphism between the set of subsets of a list L of
length N, and the set of binary numbers between 0 and (2**N)-1 -- map
each element of L to its index, and have each subset S correspond to the
number X for which bits are set to 1 for the indices of elements of L
that are in S.

It's simpler to express this in Python of course...!-).

def subsetOfX(L, X):
    S = []
    for i in range(len(L)):
        if X&(2L**i):
            S.append(L[i])
    return S

or, more concisely but equivalently:

def subsetOfX(L, X):
    return [L[i] for i in range(len(L))
        if X & (1L<<i)]

So, the set-of-all-subsets:

def setOfSubsets(L):
    return [subsetOfX(L, X)
        for X in range(2**len(L))]

We don't NEED the auxiliary function
subsetOfX of course, if we prefer...:

def setOfSubsets(L):
    N = len(L)
    return [ [ L[i] for i in range(N)
                if X & (1L<<i) ]
        for X in range(2**N) ]


Alex





From stephensong at iname.com  Tue Jan 30 01:22:06 2001
From: stephensong at iname.com (Gary Stephenson)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 17:22:06 +1100
Subject: Calling an exe within Python
References: <20010129215504.07374.00004165@ng-fi1.aol.com>
Message-ID: <955m41$a46$1@bugstomper.ihug.com.au>

Hi Dockeen,

You should know by now that exe's just don't respond to threats! <GG>

cheers,

gary

"Dockeen" <dockeen at aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010129215504.07374.00004165 at ng-fi1.aol.com...
> If I were to use Python as a controller / integrator for a number of
> stand-alone executables, then I would need to call those exe files from
within
> Python
>
> (1) Easy question, is this possible?
> (2) When I do such a call, does execution within the Python script wait
for the
> exe to finish or does it spawn a new threat for the exe and move on?
>
> Wayne
>
> However dumb you think my questions are, they are nowhere near as
> intellectually challenged as I am.




From oblomov at freemail.it  Mon Jan 15 16:43:02 2001
From: oblomov at freemail.it (Giuseppe Bilotta)
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 21:43:02 GMT
Subject: python compiled to native in less than a year?
References: <mailman.979575676.22737.python-list@python.org> <GqH86.6041$J%.605518@news.flash.net>
Message-ID: <G9K86.60439$eB2.5067059@news.infostrada.it>

Knowing M$, at least one of the following will hold :

1) M$ will not cleanly document IL, making it almost impossible to know it apporpriately;
2) M$ will patent IL, so royalties will have to be paid for its use (aka: bye-bye, Free Software)

And since we're at it: what's the dirty trick Sun played with Java?
--
Giuseppe Bilotta


s <slhath at flash.net> wrote in message GqH86.6041$J%.605518 at news.flash.net...
> I believe that you are mistaken...the IL is NOT MS specific and is not tied
> to any specific platform or chipset.  Some company should easily be able to
> take IL and create a compiler that will work on Linux, Unix, Mac, etc.
>
> Scott
>
> "Oleg Broytmann" <phd at phd.pp.ru> wrote in message
> news:mailman.979575676.22737.python-list at python.org...
> > On Mon, 15 Jan 2001, scotth wrote:
> > > Since the new .NET platform from MS will take all the compatible .NET
> > > languages and transform them to an IL (intermediate language ???), then
> take
> > > the IL to native compiled code, this means that python will be compiled,
> but
> > > only for the Windows platform.
> > >
> > > Is what I have said correct, or have I missed something?  This would
> give
> > > python a huge boost!
> >
> > <OFFTOPIC mode="flame">
> >    I am afraid you are near to be correct. This way M$ is trying to bound
> > you to one damned platform. This dirty trick is the answer to Sun's dirty
> > tricks with Java.
> >
> >    Stay away from M$, it is perfectly dangerous. Whatever is touched by M$
> > soon become M$ :( Don't touch M$, too, let the Sun be sad example :(((
> > </OFFTOPIC>
> >
> > Oleg.
> > ----
> >      Oleg Broytmann            http://phd.pp.ru/            phd at phd.pp.ru
> >            Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN.
> >
> >
>
>




From bbhaydon at my-deja.com  Sun Jan 14 22:31:15 2001
From: bbhaydon at my-deja.com (bbhaydon at my-deja.com)
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 03:31:15 GMT
Subject: More on web development
References: <0hr16t4gt4vp72b8aqcs0tup6ddcs1urtr@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <93tqu4$h1b$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

www.modpython.org. The new mod.publisher module behaves similar to Zope
etc..

--
Brett Haydon

In article <0hr16t4gt4vp72b8aqcs0tup6ddcs1urtr at 4ax.com>,
  Tim Roberts <timr at probo.com> wrote:
> The recent thread on web development techniques and templating vs
> Python-as-HTML has been very helpful.  I wonder if I might explore
another
> aspect of this, which actually relates more to using Python in larger
> applications.
>
> There are a number of ways to architect a Python-based web site with
many
> pages.  I have tended to build my site with one script per page, so
that
> the URL simply points to the .py file.  I'm now realizing this has a
number
> of disdvantages.  For one thing, it can be difficult to share global
state.
> I've tried to put common things, including instances of global data,
into a
> "common.py", but since common.py has to be imported into almost every
file,
> there seem to be multiple instance issues.
>
> I'm wondering now if it would be better to have the whole site
dispatched
> by a single script, using the PATH_INFO part of the URL to identify a
> command to be executed.  Does anyone have any feelings about this?
>
> I'm also considering switching my global state from module-based to
class
> instance-based.  The biggest advantage to this, it seems to me, is
that I
> no longer need to worry about importing my common.py everywhere.  I
can
> pass the global class instance around and call the methods without the
> import, and without worrying about nested import dependencies.
>
> Any advice from the more experienced Python web developers?
> --
> - Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
>   Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.
>


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From grante at visi.com  Wed Jan 17 17:02:08 2001
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 22:02:08 GMT
Subject: using __init__ with params ( somewhat long )
References: <slrn969988.5uj.corey@scanner.axcelerant.com> <902CA0151rcamesz@127.0.0.1> <944pdg$f6g$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <ADo96.168$eI2.97934@ruti.visi.com>

In article <944pdg$f6g$1 at nntp6.u.washington.edu>, Donn Cave wrote:

>|> I'm new to Python ( from 5 odd years of Perl ), so
>|> please bare with me...  
>|
>| Ehm... You *are* aware this is comp.lang.python and *not* a nudist
>| colony, aren't you? 
>
>Come on, this is the Internet, where no one knows you're naked.

That used to be true.  Now there are web-cams.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  YOW!! Up ahead! It's
                                  at               a DONUT HUT!!
                               visi.com            


From fredrik at effbot.org  Mon Jan 15 12:20:00 2001
From: fredrik at effbot.org (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 17:20:00 GMT
Subject: is this a known re 'bug/feature'?
References: <sr1aNJAD+vY6Ewmb@jessikat.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: <4jG86.6277$Qb7.923474@newsb.telia.net>

Robin Becker wrote:
> I find the following bug/feature/difference between the new and
> older re modules, is this a known feature?  Seems like the new re
> doesn't like {m,n} modifiers.
>
> >>> import re, pre
> >>> P = re.compile('\\{(M{1,5}|YYYY|YY|D{1,4})\\}',re.MULTILINE|re.IGNORECASE)
> >>> oP = pre.compile('\\{(M{1,5}|YYYY|YY|D{1,4})\\}',re.MULTILINE|re.IGNORECASE)

note that the flag values differ between SRE and PCRE, so
you should make sure to use flags from the right module...

(not that it seems to matter in this case)

> >>> P.match('{MMMMM}')
> >>> oP.match('{MMMMM}')
> <pre.MatchObject instance at 0113B754
> >>>>

there is definitely a bug hiding in here, but I'm not sure it's
related to the {m,n} syntax -- the "re" version works if you
remove the IGNORECASE flag (!?).

I'll investigate.

(In the meantime, feel free to post this bug report to the
SF bug tracker).

Thanks /F




From thomas at xs4all.net  Tue Jan 30 04:33:27 2001
From: thomas at xs4all.net (Thomas Wouters)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 10:33:27 +0100
Subject: curly-brace-aphobic?
In-Reply-To: <VQld6.131650$ge4.48028897@news2.rdc2.tx.home.com>; from root@rainerdeyke.com on Mon, Jan 29, 2001 at 10:07:49PM +0000
References: <3A74EBD6.3C87FD15@seebelow.org> <slrn97a9fu.7sf.clgonsal@keeshah.penguinpowered.com> <slrn97bicg.8va.quinn@bolivar.ugcs.caltech.edu> <VQld6.131650$ge4.48028897@news2.rdc2.tx.home.com>
Message-ID: <20010130103327.C962@xs4all.nl>

On Mon, Jan 29, 2001 at 10:07:49PM +0000, Rainer Deyke wrote:

> None of these is really a compelling reason for using '[]' instead of '()'
> for access. 

I think the central misconception here is that you seem to think Guido made
a concious decision about everything he did in Python. I think Python uses
[] for all indexing operations, and not some other character, because Guido
thought it made sense. And you know what ? So do I, and a lot of other
people. I *especially* like the way indexing is handled the same way for all
container types, because that makes the language consistent, and doesn't
leave you with a feeling of "what do I do when I have a class/extention type
that is neither a dict nor a list, and I want to index it?" :)

Other than that, I doubt Guido thought much about what to use for indexing.
He probably also didn't think much of using ()'s for all function-alike
calls -- builtin functions, Python functions, methods on builtin types,
methods on Python types, class instantiation, Python classes pretending to
be functions. Not everything has a concious reason, Guido just made the
right decisions automatically :)

I'm-an-atheist-so-I'll-call-it-'coincidence'-ly y'rs,

-- 
Thomas Wouters <thomas at xs4all.net>

Hi! I'm a .signature virus! copy me into your .signature file to help me spread!



From amk at mira.erols.com  Mon Jan 15 23:29:53 2001
From: amk at mira.erols.com (A.M. Kuchling)
Date: 16 Jan 2001 04:29:53 GMT
Subject: Web devel with python. Whats the best route?
References: <mailman.978910629.6814.python-list@python.org> <93cqvi0191h@news1.newsguy.com> <kuofxhi4d2.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi> <93om7l$p6s$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <kusnmmfs6a.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi> <93t6bv$pj$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <kud7dpg247.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi> <93uqu302sdf@news1.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <slrn967kbu.bil.amk@207-172-111-91.s91.tnt1.ann.va.dialup.rcn.com>

On Mon, 15 Jan 2001 13:35:22 +0100, Alex Martelli <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote:
>Wrong, see RFC 2109, "HTTP State Management Mechanism".  That is
>where cookies are specified in detail.

Note that RFC 2109 was never widely implemented.  I did an initial
implementation for Lynx in 1996, but compliance with RFC 2109 then had
to be broken in various ways to match existing practice.  For example,
according to RFC2109, it's illegal to set a cookie with a domain of
.yahoo.com from a host named edit.my.yahoo.com, because there's a '.'
in the prefix, but denying people access to their Yahoo pages from
Lynx is rather draconian.

--amk


From jasonic at nomadicsltd.com  Sat Jan 27 19:57:31 2001
From: jasonic at nomadicsltd.com (Jason Cunliffe)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 19:57:31 -0500
Subject: [Off topic] allowed to put Python material on the Web?
References: <mailman.980634213.15110.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <t76rcujhrg4aa0@corp.supernews.com>

I have been wondering about this too, as I have many links+research, which
people have been encouraging me to put up on a web site. Now planning to do
this [with Zope] so clarification is welcome..

As I understand it the key issues here are:

1. Right to copy the content and re-publish
Just _linking_ to existing content presumably does not require any
permission, though it may be a reasonable courtesy.

2. Right to make editorial changes to previously posted material.

3. The wisdom of pooling resources and contributing to common archives.
It makes sense in many instances to do both. ie: contribute all one can to a
recognized common site
{'The Vaults of Parnassus', python.faqts.com}, but also maintain more
personal, focused site with particular links and documents relevant to one's
focus. This allows one to keep a more logical 'readable' thread of interest.
But include a link to the public site for those who want to search more
widely.

For any of the above, what happens when one switches medium, for example to
publish a book? Do newsgroup posts and or e-mails demand news permissions?

any ideas
- Jason
___________________________________________________________
Jason CUNLIFFE = NOMADICS['Interactive Art and Technology']


Hans & Mari <hnowak at cuci.nl> wrote in message
news:mailman.980634213.15110.python-list at python.org...

On 27 Jan 01, at 17:51, Daniel wrote:

> Dear newgroupreaders,
>
> As a Python newbie, I've been collecting lots of questions and answers
> from this newsgroup.  It contains stuff not readily found in the many
> good FAQ from the net.
>
> Before setting up a new site, I would like to ask if it is allowed to
> put my collection of questions and answers from this newsgroup (which
> helped me a lot) on my site,so everyone can enjoy/learn from it
> without going to the d?j? palace.

> Thus, before starting the time-consuming task to create this new site,
> I'd like to know if putting this collection on the Web is actually
> legal/allowed.

I had a similar site; because of lack of time, I stopped maintaining it.
All my snippets went to the Python knowledge base/FAQTS
(http://python.faqts.com). Before you go to the trouble of setting up a new
site from scratch, it may be good to look at this FAQTS site. Maybe you
would want to contribute to it rather than setting up and maintaining your
own site, but that is just a suggestion.

As for the legal stuff, I always assumed that I could freely dig into
newsgroup messages for interesting code. This may or may not be right;
nobody has complained about it, though, and I had quite a few authors in my
collection. I did include the name of the original poster/author with each
snippet, so it would be clear who held the copyright to the code.

HTH,

--Hans Nowak (zephyrfalcon at hvision.nl)
You call me a masterless man. You are wrong. I am my own master.
May Grandma Moses introduce Tipper Gore to your owl's nest!





From phd at phd.pp.ru  Fri Jan 19 03:53:26 2001
From: phd at phd.pp.ru (Oleg Broytmann)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 11:53:26 +0300 (MSK)
Subject: Help for DCOracle module on AIX UNIX
In-Reply-To: <3A676B6F.520CCD27@cnri.reston.va.us>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0101191152441.7799-100000@fep132.fep.ru>

Hello!

On Thu, 18 Jan 2001, Weiming He wrote:
> Does anyone know how to compile and link DCOracle module on AIX UNIX?
> Please pass me a hand, thanks in advance.

   In what way AIX is different from any other UNIX? I've compiled and used
DCOracle on Linux...

Oleg.
----
     Oleg Broytmann            http://phd.pp.ru/            phd at phd.pp.ru
           Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN.




From claird at starbase.neosoft.com  Fri Jan  5 09:37:43 2001
From: claird at starbase.neosoft.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: 5 Jan 2001 08:37:43 -0600
Subject: OO in Python (was Re: Migrating to perl?)
References: <3Fa56.4580$of7.216286@news1.atl> <933fa1$j2i$1@newshost.accu.uu.nl> <ggd56.4652$of7.222552@news1.atl> <934ghv02hg0@news2.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <3284C8A2D218D5A4.904FDBE7634A2E21.13E03F073E968847@lp.airnews.net>

In article <934ghv02hg0 at news2.newsguy.com>,
Alex Martelli <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote:
			.
		[lucid and wise comments
		on several important topics]
			.
			.
>on
>> the question of how do I do OO but I really know very little about it...
>> enough to know that I can benefit from it and basic ideas.  I understand
>the
>> idea of a class and building objects from it but anything beyond that is
>> still really new to me.  Any suggestions?
>
>I don't think there is a really good "OO theory" text that does
>not make some reasonably strong assumptions on the object model
>that will be in use -- which, in turn, means the language that
>will be in use.  If you learn OO based on an object model that
Does *Object-Oriented Software Construction*
not make your "cut-off", Alex?
>(e.g.) assumes compile-time static typing, or single inheritance,
>etc, that will not make your transition to Python OO all that
>smooth or easy (quite feasible, of course -- the more languages
>you know and understand, the easier it is to learn any N+1-th
>language, and Python IS quite easy in any event).
Hmm; perhaps your examples answer my question.
I'll counter, though, that even single-inheri-
ted Python is quite a wonderful thing.
			.
		[more prudent and
		productive advice]
			.
			.
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at NeoSoft.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://starbase.neosoft.com/~claird/home.html


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Wed Jan 24 09:45:04 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 15:45:04 +0100
Subject: unpack sequence to tuple?
References: <94j6j1$3na$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <mailman.980234666.18231.python-list@python.org> <94jjtb0108j@news1.newsguy.com> <94kf4n$58u$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <94krq40bh6@news2.newsguy.com> <94mk4k$vhh$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <94mppo02933@news2.newsguy.com>

"John Nielsen" <nielsenjf at my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:94mk4k$vhh$1 at nnrp1.deja.com...
>
> > Clarity, I guess, is in the eye of the beholder; even if I
    [snip]
> Is there any reason for extend versus +=?

+= is polymorphic -- it does (roughly) "the right thing" whatever
the exact type of its left-hand operand.  I also find it turns
out to be sometimes clearer/more readable, but that's just me.


> > def padSequence(seq, length):
> >     if len(seq)>=length: return seq[:length]
> >     return list(seq)+[None]*(length-len(seq))
> >
> > This is probably the first thing that will come to mind
> > to a newbie, after all, and thus might be simplest for
> > said newbie to understand.
>
> As usual, you have great taste. That's even clearer.

Actually, I still prefer my first version.  "Eye of the
beholder" thing...


> The first example, though perfectly fine, reminded me of perl. (i.e. I
> thought hmm if I showed this to one of my colleagues just picking up
> python, would they be able to make sense of it -- tend to have to think
> that a lot w/perl).

I worry less about that in Python -- yes, a big expression
IS more complicated than a series of small statements, e.g.:

def compute(x,y):
    sum = x+y
    product = x*y
    result = (product/sum) + x + y
    return result

vs

def compute(x,y):
    return (x*y)/(x+y) + x + y

but that's a transient effect -- one gets used rather soon
to writing expressions as needed, and only breaking them
down for clarity 'with moderation', and only in somewhat
extreme cases.  Getting Python beginners used to the first
kind of approach (let's only take little baby step at all
times so they can never get confused) is like speaking
'baby talk' to young children -- it may seem natural but
it's not really doing them a favor (IMHO).  That's not to
say one should go out of one's way to produce polysyllabic
obfuscation -- just talk with precision and correct grammar
at all times; the kind of simplicity that IS truly good
for a beginner to get exposed to, is the SAME kind of
simplicity that it's truly good to strive for at all times
(just as the kind of language that I think one should try
to use with one's kids is the same precise and correct one
that one would ideally use at all times).


Alex





From sholden at holdenweb.com  Mon Jan 15 19:40:06 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 19:40:06 -0500
Subject: new enum idiom
References: <G6qzLy.6Fo@world.std.com> <938jmh$919$1@animus.fel.iae.nl> <3A58B9C0.9F2A5CC0@collins.rockwell.com> <93an8v02d2n@news1.newsguy.com> <93dde1$8d2$1@animus.fel.iae.nl> <93f3nb023mv@news1.newsguy.com> <90259DC4Arcamesz@127.0.0.1> <93i57b01qms@news2.newsguy.com> <90268BCE3rcamesz@127.0.0.1> <93kb0m0r3s@news1.newsguy.com> <90273B4rcamesz@127.0.0.1> <93mlct0gse@news1.newsguy.com> <902827F55rcamesz@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <zPM86.2262$Q06.50336@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com>

Alex Martelli wrote:
> 
[ ... ] 
> But I'm just arguing for argument's sake -- it's an obscure corner 
 > of an obscure idiom, and both usages look pretty much OK to me for
> something likely to see frequencies as low as this. 
> 
No, you aren't.




From cobrien at Radix.Net  Fri Jan  5 16:22:36 2001
From: cobrien at Radix.Net (Cary O'Brien)
Date: 5 Jan 2001 16:22:36 -0500
Subject: How robust is Python ?
References: <LOBBJMHOIFOLFIPFANHJAEJFCHAA.zope@TheWebsons.com> <mailman.978716227.31692.python-list@python.org> <9354f9$vbi$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <935dus$cd2$1@saltmine.radix.net>

In article <9354f9$vbi$1 at nnrp1.deja.com>,  <rturpin at my-deja.com> wrote:
>In article <mailman.978716227.31692.python-list at python.org>,
>  Moshe Zadka <moshez at zadka.site.co.il> wrote:
>> .. in my experience, Python is just as robust as Java.
>> Or are you using a definition of robust other then
>> "crashes very little".
>
>That's an interesting comment. We're planning an "always
>up" application, that launches at boot, runs until next
>restart or shutdown, and does a lot of work in between.
>I'd like to use Python. I've been working under the
>assumption that it is adequately robust for this purpose.
>
>Does anyone want to caution me on this?
>

My experience with using --um-er-- a different popular interpreted
language with clean syntax -- in similar situations is that once
you've got it right it will run forever, provided you don't have any
memory or fd leaks.  Or bad ram.  So

1) Run it HARD and watch it with top  for a LONG time,
   under different situations to make sure it doesn't
   leak memory. 

2) If you can check with lsof and make sure you know exactly
   why the open files are open.  Filling up disk has been
   more frequent than software crashes or running out of
   ram.

2) Make sure you can compile the kernel a couple of times on the
   platform without any sig-11 errors (indicating bad ram).  

3) But to be honest I'm a belt-and-braces kind of guy.  So the
   important processes are forked off by watcher processes that
   will restart them (within limits) if they die.  Or you could
   start it from /etc/inittab if you want. 

But I've had processes running for months before the system
was restarted.   I've also had Zope instances up for as long
as the systems stayed up -- months at a time, ending due to 
either crummy power or moving furnature.

So you should be able to put something that will run forever.

(As an aside, this has always bugged me.  Correctly written software
on good hardware should run forever.  It can be done.  I've seen it.
Anything less is admitting you've made a mistake.)

Comments?  Did I leave anything out?

-- cary


From fredrik at effbot.org  Fri Jan 19 01:54:22 2001
From: fredrik at effbot.org (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 06:54:22 GMT
Subject: Why no isexec, isread, iswrite, etc (was: I must be missing something obvious: os.path.isexecutable?)
References: <slrn96enju.g1v.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <slrn96ep7c.g1v.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <slrn96erlf.h11.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <uy9w89kjb.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com>
Message-ID: <ywR96.7525$AH6.1174891@newsc.telia.net>

David Bolen wrote:
> One possibility is that there's more than one answer to the question
> of "isexec" - it's not a single bit, but one that can exist for all of
> owner, group and world.

Another possibility is that "isexec" isn't a portable concept...

How would you implement it on Windows, for example?

Anything having the right magic?  Any file having an extension
listed in PATHEXT?  Any file you can use with "start" (which in-
cludes virtually everything these days...)

Cheers /F




From db3l at fitlinxx.com  Mon Jan 22 14:46:46 2001
From: db3l at fitlinxx.com (David Bolen)
Date: 22 Jan 2001 14:46:46 -0500
Subject: Using Installer with PyXML
References: <mailman.980016686.29036.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <u8zo374k9.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com>

"Dan Rolander" <dan.rolander at marriott.com> writes:

> I am by no means an expert on this, so if anybody understands this better
> and can provide simpler workarounds I would appreciate hearing it.

First, one short suggestion for the pyexpat.pyd issue - for your
"misc=" line, ensure you are specifying it as "xml.parsers.pyexpat",
and don't include the "pyd".  Otherwise I think the installer will
look for a "pyd" module beneath the pyexpat module which it won't be
able to find.  The module name itself is "xml.parsers.pyexpat", and
the installer will be able to determine it's a pyd and include the
file as a binary.  (I didn't have a 2.0 setup to verify on but with
1.5.2, I get the same ValueError as you if I include the extension).

In terms of the more general stuff - I may be off on this explanation
(which I'm sure someone will correct) as it's been a while since I
delved into the installer package and the import mechanism, but here's
my take.

One one level, the installer package is elegant in its simplicity, but
on another level it's inherently a very complex process.  At its core,
it packages any number of files together, either placing them in an
overall binary archive (file type independent) or a compressed Python
archive (for imported modules) that it knows how to import a single
module from efficiently.  The trickiest part is figuring out just
which modules need to be included for a particular script because
Python can be so dynamic in how it accesses modules.

The xml module itself is tricky because it is dynamically replacing
itself with the _xmlplus module when present, due to the desire to
include it in the core Python 2.0 but still permit transparent
hand-off to a more recent version if the user has PyXML installed.
This hand-off is done dynamically at run time, but the installer tool
needs to try to determine this at "build" time so it can include all
the right files in the right references.  This is the root of needing
to specifically request the package be included in the final output.
Without actually executing the code, it's hard for the installer to
know that the _xmlplus module is eventually referenced.

In terms of the naming issue between xml and _xmlplus, I'm guessing
there ought to be a way not to need to do that, but had suggested it
as a near term workaround to resolve the particular issue at hand,
which seems to be the installer import mechanism not following the
renaming.  I'm guessing that there's something interfering with the
installer package import mechanism from tracking the re-assignment of
the xml module to _xmlplus, but am not certain if it's fundamentally
not going to work, or just a bug in the current system.

Renaming the Python 2.0 xml library out of the way also reduces the
modules included in the installer output, since it's not necessary to
include the Python 2.0 xml library if you know it's just going to use
the _xmlplus version instead.  It does require some adjustment to at
least the one machine that is going the installer build, but that's
the only one that needs to change.

The standard import mechanism loads each module in a hierarchy in
turn, and then looks into that module's dictionary to locate
submodules.  So when you do something like "from xml.sax import", the
built in import mechanism finds "xml" in sys.modules (loading if
necessary, and since it's a package, using __init__.py).  The loading
of __init__.py changes sys.modules["xml"] to point to
sys.modules["_xmlplus"] if present so everyone finds _xmlplus later
without knowing about it.

The run time handling doesn't change when the application is run as an
"installer" package, but there seems to be a mismatch between the
actual execution of the code (which affects sys.modules in memory) and
the processing of import statements which directly load the referenced
modules from the installer archive.  That could be seen in your
failure with "xml.sax.saxlib" (which only exists in the PyXML _xmlplus
package) - the importer should have been trying to import
_xmlplus.sax.saxlib at that point, but it was still using the "xml"
prefix.

The installer setup establishes a new import handler that understands
how to load a specific module from a compressed archive (ZlibArchive)
that is stored in the overall executable archive (CArchive).  The
archive itself is flat - it works by storing each module with a "fully
qualified" module name.  So the xml.sax module is stored with an index
name of "xml.sax", and likewise the replacement "_xmlplus.sax" module.
When code does an import of something in xml.sax, the importer still
traverses the tree, but it would appear that at some point in the
process it is still trying to load "xml.sax" and not "_xmlplus.sax" as
it should be.  (Imputil seems to be using the module __name__
attribute so at first glance I'm not sure why it loses track of the
rename).

So - short term replacing your development setup so that _xmlplus is
actually xml should take care of the issue of tracking that rename for
the installer package's import mechanism (or the issue may be in the
imputil module which is now part of Python 2.0).

The issue with the pyexpat.pyd and xml*.dll files is slightly
different.  The installer tries to find native DLLs (e.g.,
dependencies of python pyd modules) that are required due to imports
of the pyds.  But if you include a file in "misc=", it just adds that
file and doesn't check for dependencies.  (You may be able to get this
with bindepends, I'm not positive).  But it just means that when
specifying miscellaneous files, you might have to determine any DLL
dependencies yourself.  There are standard Windows tools to help out
with this if necessary.

The python 2.0 distribution seems to split out some of the raw xml
processing into separate DLLs, whereas I think the PyXML distribution
includes them all in pyexpat.pyd.  That's why when you switched to the
PyXML version it no longer complained about the separate xml*.dll
files.  But as noted at the top of this post, I don't think you need
to do any copying of the PYD file from the PyXML distribution into
your DLLs directory of your Python 2.0 distribution.  The only wrinkle
might be if some code did actually directly import "pyexpat" which
would expect it to be somewhere directly on sys.path rather than
beneath xml.parsers.  That might result in the installer including
both versions of pyexpat based on the import.

--
-- David
-- 
/-----------------------------------------------------------------------\
 \               David Bolen            \   E-mail: db3l at fitlinxx.com  /
  |             FitLinxx, Inc.            \  Phone: (203) 708-5192    |
 /  860 Canal Street, Stamford, CT  06902   \  Fax: (203) 316-5150     \
\-----------------------------------------------------------------------/


From loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de  Sat Jan 20 18:56:16 2001
From: loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de (Martin von Loewis)
Date: 21 Jan 2001 00:56:16 +0100
Subject: I (don'  ) will kill my Python
References: <mailman.979970182.28582.python-list@python.org> <94cp5o$buj$1@nereid.worldonline.nl>
Message-ID: <p6qelxxpylb.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>

"Gerrit Muller" <gmuller at worldonline.nl> writes:

> What would the size of a platform-dependent (windows) binary for a simple
> Python/Tkinter based program, using static linked libraries? Looking at the
> tkinter dll's it will be in the low megabyte order of magnitude?

I think there could be a lot of discussion as to how an ideal
packaging system for windows should work. Some try to embed DLLs into
a single binary file, and then unpack them before use. 

Others prefer to ship DLLs separately, so that the packaging only
includes the many .py files of the library.

Yes others prefer statically linked binaries, with everything
essentially frozen.

I personally lean toward the pythonXY.dll solution, where that DLL
should really cover all extension modules which are available in the
XY version and which work on Windows.

Of course, freezing Tcl is a difficult matter on its own, so the
fully-standalone approach may never work (with the current Tcl
versions).

Regards,
Martin


From jschmitt at vmlabs.com  Mon Jan 15 21:16:08 2001
From: jschmitt at vmlabs.com (John Schmitt)
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 18:16:08 -0800
Subject: adding the XML to 2.0 to be a mistake? ( RE: mxTools (was Re: why
	 no "do : until"?))
Message-ID: <008F0A63472BD311AF9800104BCD102561CAEF@minirex.vmlabs.com>

Pardon the ignorance, but where is the mistake?  Is it in adding PyXML to
2.0 or is it the way it was done?  Is there no development strategy that
makes this less of a burden?  If a previous release of PyXML had been added
to 2.0, would you still consider it a mistake?

John

> -----Original Message-----
> From: amk at mira.erols.com [mailto:amk at mira.erols.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2001 7:31 PM
> To: python-list at python.org
> Subject: Re: mxTools (was Re: why no "do : until"?)
> 
> 
> >There are a potentially infinite number of 
> types/classes/modules which
> >can be considered as essential if they are required for 
> consistency in
> >more than one other module.
> 
> In addition, many modules release new revisions much faster than
> Python does.  For example, I consider adding the XML parsing modules
> to 2.0 to now have been demonstrated to be a serious mistake; there
> have been 2 or 3 PyXML releases since Python 2.0.  The versions in 2.0
> had some serious bugs; Martin von Loewis now has to expend effort on
> maintaining consistency across two source trees; patches and bug
> reports sometimes go into the Python project, sometimes into the PyXML
> project; and if you find xml.dom.minidom is present, you have no idea
> if it's the latest version or an older buggy version.
> 
> --amk
> -- 
> http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 



From pen_man at my-deja.com  Wed Jan 17 19:28:32 2001
From: pen_man at my-deja.com (penman)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 00:28:32 GMT
Subject: Displaying HTMLs with Tkinter
Message-ID: <945db6$umq$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

Is there any way that I can display HTML texts in Tkinter?
(Like in wxPython -- HTML widget?)

Thanks in advance.


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From moshez at zadka.site.co.il  Thu Jan  4 11:53:31 2001
From: moshez at zadka.site.co.il (Moshe Zadka)
Date: Thu,  4 Jan 2001 18:53:31 +0200 (IST)
Subject: CGIHTTPServer.py
In-Reply-To: <7F5BC4310EDD615A.1D87832E39807480.8066D4EF5FF33D4C@lp.airnews.net>
References: <7F5BC4310EDD615A.1D87832E39807480.8066D4EF5FF33D4C@lp.airnews.net>
Message-ID: <20010104165331.02821A84F@darjeeling.zadka.site.co.il>

On Wed, 3 Jan 2001 17:57:29 -0600, "alan runyan" <runyaga at thisbox.com> wrote:
> I'm playing around CGIHTTPServer.py and have some problems that I can seem
> to fix.  any help would be greatly appreciated.
> 
> in the Library Reference it shows its availability as Unix only, why not
> Windows?  it seems to work just fine on Windows.

It uses fork() which AFAIK is not available on Windows.
-- 
Moshe Zadka <sig at zadka.site.co.il>
This is a signature anti-virus. 
Please stop the spread of signature viruses!



From sp00fD at yahoo.com  Thu Jan 25 15:57:26 2001
From: sp00fD at yahoo.com (sp00fD)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 20:57:26 GMT
Subject: Library paths
References: <94pm5p$mhi$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <P_%b6.9935$KJ3.590357@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <94q3vg$4i3$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

In article <P_%b6.9935$KJ3.590357 at newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>,
  Simon Kesenci <tomega at earthlink.net> wrote:
> Add the path into /etc/ld.so.conf, then run ldconfig as root.
>

It's on Solaris, no such thing...

Thanks

> --S.
>
> sp00fD wrote:
>
> > I build Python2.0, and added in tk support.  Now when I try to use
> > python, I get:
> > ld.so.1: python: fatal: libtk8.3.so: open failed: No such file or
> > directory
> >
> > I can set my LD_LIBRARY_PATH to point to the directory which holds
the
> > tk library and everything is cool.  The question is, is there any
way
> > to build python so that I don't have to add a LD_LIBRARY_PATH entry
to
> > all the users?
> >
> >
> > Sent via Deja.com
> > http://www.deja.com/
>
> --
> Coito ergo cum.
>
>


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From timr at probo.com  Wed Jan  3 01:54:52 2001
From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts)
Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2001 22:54:52 -0800
Subject: Newbie + Linux + Apache + CGI + Python = Problem
References: <_T746.964$Gf6.14504@news3.voicenet.com>
Message-ID: <uqi55t4fu4af5rt8ipi220ep4siehqugib@4ax.com>

"John F." <nospam at here.com> wrote:
>
>[5] in the cgi-bin dir I can NOT execute the python script with:
>./hello2.cgi  I get that it cannot find the file, BUT if I put a bogus
>command option after #!/usr/bin/python it FAILS with a Python usage prompt,
>so bash is finding python (and it is in the $PATH so it SHOULD).

(Raises hand and jumps annoyingly...)  I know, I know!

You can learn the answer by looking at the files in a binary editor.

The Perl script was created in Linux.  The Python script was created in
DOS/Windows and copied to Linux.  The lines in the Python script are
terminated with \r\n.  The exec loader doesn't know from \r, so it tries to
load "/usr/bin/python\r" and, predictably, does not find it.

Bring the file into vi; it will say "dos-format" at the bottom.  Do ":set
fileformat=unix" and ":w".
--
- Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
  Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.


From paulp at ActiveState.com  Mon Jan 22 22:16:30 2001
From: paulp at ActiveState.com (Paul Prescod)
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 19:16:30 -0800
Subject: XML doc generation
References: <20010122223131.A31348@coastalgeology.org>
Message-ID: <3A6CF78E.624A3@ActiveState.com>

Jonathan Pennington wrote:
> 
>...
> 
> Well, I trust your judgement there. As a reformed perl and PHP
> programmer, I can write text into a file in my sleep :-) However, one
> last question. If I wanted to download this coordinate info, then
> manipulate it as a DOM, would that still be easier. In other words, as
> stated above, I would download data from the receiver directly into an
> XML file, then parse the XML file into memory, display/manipulate it,
> then rewrite it to the file when saved. 

Even in the case where the data came from XML, it may or may not be
easiest to manipulate it *as* XML. If you are doing lots of complicated
manipulations, it might be easier to do it in some other data structure. 

Imagine if I had a matrix encoded as an XML "table". Doing a transform
to rotate the table would be a lot more work than doing the equivalent
with simple Python lists or with NumPy arrays.

On the other hand, if you were just running around the tree adding a few
attributes or something then it would be easier to keep it as a DOM for
the whole program.

> Do I understand correctly. It
> does sound easy enough, I just want to make sure that I'm not missing
> something or making things difficult with all that file I/O. Thanks.

A lot of people are nervous that writing out tags is an inappropriate
way to generate XML. That's natural. But it tends to be simpler than the
alternatives and about as robust.

 Paul Prescod



From vmarkwart at my-deja.com  Mon Jan 22 17:11:43 2001
From: vmarkwart at my-deja.com (vmarkwart at my-deja.com)
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 22:11:43 GMT
Subject: Chinese Year of the Snake
Message-ID: <94ib6m$cgq$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

Just a bit of levity.
Hopefully the Year of the Snake will bode well for the Python
community. Perhaps it might be a means of Python Promotion 8-)
Cheers
Victor


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From dan.rolander at marriott.com  Wed Jan 17 12:38:25 2001
From: dan.rolander at marriott.com (Dan Rolander)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 12:38:25 -0500
Subject: McMillan's installer & new module
References: <94209j$giv$1@athena.euroweb.hu> <Itk96.65731$y9.12085067@typhoon.we.rr.com>
Message-ID: <008401c080ac$4b983390$11260340@yin>

I've played around with Gordon's Installer a bit, but have gotten stuck when
it can't find all the modules I need. He does have a lot of information on
his web site but I'm not sure I understand all of it. Is there a better way
to package Python scripts into standalone exe's for Win32? I've read a
little about freeze, squeeze, distutils, etc. but haven't tried them.

Any thoughts?

Thanks,
Dan

----- Original Message -----
From: "Pete Shinners" <shredwheat at mediaone.net>
Newsgroups: comp.lang.python
To: <python-list at python.org>
Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2001 12:18 PM
Subject: Re: McMillan's installer & new module


> "Arpad Kiss" <sekter at matavnet.hu> wrote
> > I have installed Python 2.0 and McMillan's installer(version 3i) on Win
NT
> > 4.0 sp6.
> > If I use Standalone.py to create a standalone exe and my script contains
> > only "import new" then the generated exe raises an error message:
> > ImportError: No module named new
>
> last i heard from gordon, there is definitely a problem with the
> latest installer when it tries to import the builtin modules
> (time, new, etc).
> gordon seems pretty busy these days and said a new version would
> be available whenever he can get around to it.
>
>
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>




From alain at onesite.org  Mon Jan 15 16:09:34 2001
From: alain at onesite.org (Alain TESIO)
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 22:09:34 +0100
Subject: PHP vs Python
References: <eAs86.7767$ED.239213@news1.rdc1.bc.home.com>
Message-ID: <6cn66t4pr42di71gip2re87evnorpqq63c@4ax.com>

On Mon, 15 Jan 2001 01:42:34 GMT, "TC" <trclark at home.com> wrote:

>Hi
>I did a quick search for deja python +php +review
>not even 1 relevent hit ...so
>any takers points of interest
>
>0- how long is a peice of string ? ;)

n bytes where n is the number of characters in the string,
(2n bytes if it is an Unicode string)

>1-which one is going to be around longer, why ??
>
>
>2-who has more users

from altavista :

python AND (mod_snake OR NOT snake) => 186,508 pages
php => 177,182 pages (overestimated as it's the default extension)

>3-who hits the wall in scaling up and or handing complexity

Google didn't choose python

for feature in features:
   sucks=php.has_key(feature)
   rules=python.has_key(feature)
   if sucks and not(rules):
      if not ( feature in [ curly_braces , tags_everywhere , semicolons ] ) :
          raise SystemError
   if not(sucks) and rules:
      print feature

gives back :

exceptions
modules
great newsgroup with helpful people

>4-general performance

The killer benchmark :


eris:~/www/cgi-bin$ cat > sucks.php
<?php
for (;;)
{
    if (mt_rand(0,1000000)==1)
        die("Got it !\n");
}
?>

eris:~/www/cgi-bin$ time ./php < sucks.php
X-Powered-By: PHP/4.0.2
Content-type: text/html

Got it !
4.60user 14.27system 0:21.73elapsed 86%CPU (0avgtext+0avgdata 0maxresident)k
0inputs+0outputs (364major+110minor)pagefaults 0swaps

eris:~/www/cgi-bin$cat > rulez.py
import random
while random.randint(0,1000000)!=1000000:
    pass
print "Got it !"

eris:~/www/cgi-bin$ time python rulez.py 
Got it !
0.00user 4.32system 0:05.44elapsed 79%CPU (0avgtext+0avgdata 0maxresident)k
0inputs+0outputs (230major+94minor)pagefaults 0swaps


I have no idea why php uses user time whereas python doesn't, a good point is that a
newbie sysadmin will believe that you aren't using much of the cpu with python as user is
0.

>5-where would I be better off using PHP over Python

PHP is you need a web counter, Python for anything larger or if you need your counter to
be skinable.

>6-DB interfaces consistent
>   -seems python has a standad API PHP appears all over the map depending on
>DB

<serious>

Similar APIs (their efficiency being the one of the language itself)

Personal experience : I use php for my site onesite.org, unfortunately I didn't know
python at this time, and now I'm forced to rewrite everything.

Python is a general purpose language, php is just meant to be embedded in web
pages. If you need something like me (as a mail robot, cron jobs, ...), two choices :

1. use python and be consistent, share code
2. use php on the web, and for non-web code :
   2.1  shellscripts (remove this option and come back here one month later)
   2.2  use perl (remove this option and come back here when you're tired with @;{}%#
   2.3  use python (and rewrite the web code in python ...)


Alain



From syver at NOSPAMcyberwatcher.com  Sun Jan 14 22:41:13 2001
From: syver at NOSPAMcyberwatcher.com (Syver Enstad)
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 04:41:13 +0100
Subject: Python + IIS problems
References: <902598A71mikecat@192.168.10.38>
Message-ID: <93trlf$kof$1@troll.powertech.no>

Have you setup the IIS correctly?

The commandline parameter for the interpreter should be:

path to python "%s" %s

"Mike 'Cat' Perkonigg" <blablu at gmx.net> wrote in message
news:902598A71mikecat at 192.168.10.38...
> Hi!
>
> I tried to write python cgi programs for our IIS.
> If I call a python cgi, the IIS spawns a python interpreter but I never
get a
> result and the python process doesn't end.
> IIS has a timeout sometimes later and terminates the python process.
>
> Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated,
> Mike




From m.faassen at vet.uu.nl  Thu Jan 25 21:15:46 2001
From: m.faassen at vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen)
Date: 26 Jan 2001 02:15:46 GMT
Subject: Conspiracy Revealed
References: <mailman.980331421.18849.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <94qmki$c7k$1@newshost.accu.uu.nl>

Anonymous <anonymous at zadka.site.co.il> wrote:
> Another PSU conspiracy is revealed:
> Tim is actually an alien intelegience, capable of taking over people's minds
> First he took over GvR's mind, inserted the idea of writing Python, and
> occasionally taking full control and posting to usenet.
> Now, that Guido is fully commited to Python, Tim found his next target:
> Alex Martelli, an innocent Italian software developer.

> Evidence: Guido and Tim were *never* reported as seen together, *until* Alex
> Martelli came into c.l.py and started to write scarily-timbot-like postings

> If you meet any of the above so-called people, please take care.

The PSU denies absolutely the existence of any alien intelligences,
nor of robots with above-human usenet posting ability like the timbot
or the martellibot. The PSU denies that the timbot and the martellibot
share any of their codebase.

The PSU denies absolutely its own existence.

The PSU will reveal however that


From tim.one at home.com  Sat Jan 27 19:39:22 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 19:39:22 -0500
Subject: python-2.1 function attributes
In-Reply-To: <94vn23$j0k$1@panix6.panix.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCCELPILAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Aahz Maruch]
> One thing I'm not clear on from all this discussion is whether one
> can do this:
>
> def f():
>     f.a = 1

Sure, but there's no magic here:

1. f.a won't exist before you execute f() for the first time, so
I wouldn't *recommend* it.

2. The name "f" is not in f's local namespace (not in 2.1, or in
1.0 -- it's never been, and nothing has changed there), so this
does not "work":

class F:
    def f(self):
        f.a = 1

In the absence of any other "f" in the global namespace, executing F().f()
will yield something like

    NameError: global name 'f' is not defined

when it gets to the "f.a = 1".

Note that these are nothing new, they're siblings of the old "why can't I
write a nested function/method that invokes itself recursively?" FAQ.

The intended way to write those:

def f():
    xxx
f.a = 1

class F:
    def f(self):
        xxx
    f.a = 1




From norman at earth.ox.ac.uk  Tue Jan  9 12:43:55 2001
From: norman at earth.ox.ac.uk (Norman Charnley)
Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2001 17:43:55 +0000
Subject: BLT2.4 with Pmw, Tcl8.3, Python2.0 and Win98 - how?
Message-ID: <3A5B4DDB.48FF7846@earth.ox.ac.uk>

I've been trying to move up to Python 2.0 under Windows 98, but I cannot
persuade Pmw to see the Blt module. This was raised some time ago, but
I've not seen a workable solution posted (a suggestion to put BLT24.DLL
in the same directory as the Python executable did not fix it for me).
Anybody have an answer?

In addition, without a "normal" Tcl installation (using a version from
Scriptics into C:\Tcl, not just the C:\Python20\tcl form that is
installed by default) then .tcl scripts cannot be run simply by opening
them, and Tcl_wish does not appear to be present. Is it possible to run
Python2.0 with the normal installation - how is Python told where to
find Tcl?

Thanks for any help,

Norman

 =================================================
 Dr. Norman Charnley
 Department of Earth Sciences
 University of Oxford
 Oxford OX1 3PR, UK.
==================================================


From chapman at bioreason.com  Mon Jan 29 11:10:01 2001
From: chapman at bioreason.com (Mitch Chapman)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 09:10:01 -0700
Subject: . Python 2.1 function attributes
References: <mailman.980717974.17843.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3A7595D9.E9F080CE@bioreason.com>

Here's hoping I got the attribution right.

Tim Peters wrote:
> 
> [Alex Martelli]
> > d. he thought print>>file would APPEND to the file object and never
> >     OVERWRITE it
> 
> Well, print>> does append, unless he explicitly seek()'ed to an earlier file
> position between prints.
> 
> > -- at least once tried writing 'print>file' for the latter purpose
> 
> [...]That is, it isn't so clear *where* he got confused.

It might be clearer if we could assume he's spent time with
(Unix?) command shells.  ">" overwrites files, ">>" appends.  
More evidence for this suspicion:

> >  -- and I also heard him complain than then 'of course' input<file
> >     should also work.

My expectations for Python's behavior have rarely been
influenced by experience with other shells, but it has happened.
For example, it took a few years to stop typing "exit" or "quit"
to get out of the interpreter; and now that I've finally
learned, I find myself exiting all of the other interpreters --
bash, mysql, you name it -- by typing Ctrl-D.

--
Mitch
chapman at bioreason.com


From tim.one at home.com  Thu Jan 25 01:49:20 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 01:49:20 -0500
Subject: Conspiracy Revealed
In-Reply-To: <20010124182617.1CFF1A840@darjeeling.zadka.site.co.il>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCAEANILAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Anonymous]
> Another PSU conspiracy is revealed:

For the last time, there is no such thing as the PS




From root at rainerdeyke.com  Mon Jan 29 17:07:49 2001
From: root at rainerdeyke.com (Rainer Deyke)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 22:07:49 GMT
Subject: curly-brace-aphobic?
References: <3A74EBD6.3C87FD15@seebelow.org> <slrn97a9fu.7sf.clgonsal@keeshah.penguinpowered.com> <slrn97bicg.8va.quinn@bolivar.ugcs.caltech.edu>
Message-ID: <VQld6.131650$ge4.48028897@news2.rdc2.tx.home.com>

"Quinn Dunkan" <quinn at bolivar.ugcs.caltech.edu> wrote in message
news:slrn97bicg.8va.quinn at bolivar.ugcs.caltech.edu...
> On Mon, 29 Jan 2001 08:01:55 GMT, C.Laurence Gonsalves
> <clgonsal at keeshah.penguinpowered.com> wrote:
> >Actually, the thing that's always bugged me is that Python makes a
> >distinction between subscripting (__getattr__) and function calls
> >(__call__). Mathematically speaking, a dictionary is really just a
> >function that maps from 'keys' to 'values'.
>
> Even haskellers usually don't implement finite maps and arrays as
functions
> (though they usually acknowledge that would be the elegant solution).
>
> So even in a language where functions are the major important element,
> efficiency dictates a data-oriented view.  And python is pretty
data-oriented
> anyway, so a functional representation would be out of character.  And
> mutation is important in python, while a functional representation gives
no
> opportunity for that.

None of these is really a compelling reason for using '[]' instead of '()'
for access.  There is no efficiency difference in Python because both are
implemented as (hidden) method calls, and languages like C++ allow 'f(5) =
5;'.  Is there any good reason for function calls to use a different syntax
than mapping/sequence element access?


--
Rainer Deyke (root at rainerdeyke.com)
Shareware computer games           -           http://rainerdeyke.com
"In ihren Reihen zu stehen heisst unter Feinden zu kaempfen" - Abigor




From btheld2 at my-deja.com  Tue Jan 30 13:06:44 2001
From: btheld2 at my-deja.com (btheld2 at my-deja.com)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 18:06:44 GMT
Subject: Using PythonWin Python Rich Edit Control in MFC App
Message-ID: <956vrc$eon$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

According to Mark Hammond, the Pythonwin rich-edit view is based on a
rich-edit control.  However, I have not been able to locate this class
(or any relevant CWnd derived classes) that I can make use of in my MFC
application.  Basically, I want a control that I can use as a python
command line in a dialog that acts like the one in PythonWin.exe.  I
have looked at scintilla, but if I use that, I need to implement all of
the python specific stuff for indenting, coloring, etc...  It would be
much easier just to use a control from the PythonWin.exe if possible.
Ideas?





Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Wed Jan 17 13:56:18 2001
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 13:56:18 -0500
Subject: urgent help required
References: <944ik7$4m4$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <944pqh$3am$1@news.udel.edu>

If you give us the statement (and maybe a few more, but with extraneous
lines deleted)
that generated the error message, we might be able to help better.

Does it expect a directory rather than a file?

<ltonin at my-deja.com> wrote in message news:944ik7$4m4$1 at nnrp1.deja.com...
> well, when i try to load an image using python|
> PIL  under zope, i received the following error
> mesg:
>
> Error Type: IOError
> Error Value: [Errno 20] Not a
> directory: "MyImage.jpg/"
>
> i know it isn't a directory!!! it s an image!!!

"MyImage.jpg" may be a file, but "MyImage.jpg/" (with the slash!) looks
like a directory name.

> what's the mess ??????
> does anybody know why??
> plz help......
>
> Thanks by advance





From moshez at zadka.site.co.il  Fri Jan  5 19:13:59 2001
From: moshez at zadka.site.co.il (Moshe Zadka)
Date: Sat,  6 Jan 2001 02:13:59 +0200 (IST)
Subject: Migrating to perl?
In-Reply-To: <14933.21680.440187.266261@beluga.mojam.com>
References: <14933.21680.440187.266261@beluga.mojam.com>, <3Fa56.4580$of7.216286@news1.atl>
Message-ID: <20010106001359.DE54BA84F@darjeeling.zadka.site.co.il>

On Thu, 4 Jan 2001 22:59:28 -0600 (CST), Skip Montanaro <skip at mojam.com> wrote:

> (Mason is great, by the way.  I just wish it used Python. ;-)

The big problem with Mason's approach (I use it all the time at work) is
that is a preprocessing tool, rather then a compiler. That means syntax
error crop up in the *compiled* Perl code, which has no relation to
the original Mason code where you made the error. I spent 30 minutes
yesterday finding out where I had an extra curly brace.

"ugh-hate-perl"-is-my-motto-these-days-ly y'rs, Z.
-- 
Moshe Zadka <sig at zadka.site.co.il>
This is a signature anti-virus. 
Please stop the spread of signature viruses!



From MarkH at ActiveState.com  Tue Jan  2 19:45:02 2001
From: MarkH at ActiveState.com (Mark Hammond)
Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 00:45:02 GMT
Subject: HELP! win32com, COM, Invoke problem
References: <92rv3q$asi$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <3A51EDBF.3000808@ActiveState.com> <92tmjr$oj1$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <3A5274F3.3070001@ActiveState.com>

TB wrote:

> Mark, thanks for your quick reply.
> 
> I did notice that if you I take out the parens, this statement will
> work, but when it bombs at the next statement:
> 
> bo = form.CreateBO("Clarify.CBO.Generic")
> the error message is
...

>     ret = self._oleobj_.Invoke
> (retEntry.dispid,0,pythoncom.DISPATCH_PROPERTYGET,1)
> com_error: (-2147352567, 'Exception occurred.',
> (0, 'Form.CreateBO', 'Invalid class string\015\012', None, 0, -
> 2146827287), None)

The COM object is returing this error.  It appears that it expects 
"Clarify.CBO.Generic" to be registered as a class in your registry.

> the exception is thrown at the same Invoke line in dynamic.py. This
> time CreateBO requires one parameter, but when it's called with Invoke
> (...DISPATCH_PROPERTYGET,1), it didn't thrown an exception of
> BADCONTEXT, but it threw a 'Invalid class string', is it a bug in the
> control I'm using?

It looks like the control is purposely throwing this error.


> As for Makepy, I tried before but it didn't help. Let me make it more
> clearly. The Clarify.CBO.App.1 sits in a DLL called BOCLIENT.DLL, but
> all other stuff, session, FormContext etc sits in another DLL called
> AXCOMMON.OCX. After I ran makepy on both files, I saw 2 py files
> created, but when I step through the program I found it only used the
> 1st py file, not the 2nd one, which contains FormContext and etc. I
> don't know COM so I can't explain why. Could you explain a little bit?

You may have trouble with an OCX.  Python doesn't really support them. 
Pythonwin does to some degree - check out pywin\demos\ocx.

Re makepy:  Each COM object has a method "GetTypeInfo()".  If this 
method works and provides the CLSID of the object, then the makepy 
system can locate and load the correct module.  This is the basis of how 
makepy works.  However, in some cases, even though makepy has been run, 
the COM object does not report its CLSID.  In this case, Python is 
unable to load it.

However, in no case is the entire set of makepy generated files loaded - 
so you wont see a makepy generated file loaded until a COM object it 
describes is first used.

Mark.



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Thu Jan  4 04:08:09 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 10:08:09 +0100
Subject: why no "do : until"?
References: <92jj3j$ff7$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <92m9pm$d19$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <B3z36.122$9s1.18804@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com> <3A4EC5B1.8912E571@engcorp.com> <x8G36.156$9s1.31209@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com> <3A4F4B4D.ECD6B172@engcorp.com> <92v7g502oh4@news2.newsguy.com> <3A541290.DBC66A99@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <931ejk02cjt@news2.newsguy.com>

"Peter Hansen" <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message
news:3A541290.DBC66A99 at engcorp.com...
> Alex Martelli wrote:
> >
> > "Peter Hansen" <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:
> >     [snip]
> > > I can see your point (remarkable, given this thread, isn't it? :-).  I
> > > guess I consider the "block" to be everything except the code that
allows
> > > entry into the block.
> >
> > So what about:
> >     try:
> >         <suite1>
> >     except something:
> >         <suite2>
> > and so on?  Would you like it better if the 'except' was indented?  It's
> > NOT, after all, 'code that allows entry' in the "block" (overall
try/except
> > statement).
>
> I _do_ consider it to be 'code that allows entry' into the block.  After
> all, there are _two_ blocks here, nested inside a single outer block:
>
> try:
>     block1
> except:
>     block2

And what is the alleged difference with:

    while <condition1>:
        <suite1>
        if <condition2>: break
        <suite2>

???  Here, too, we have two 'blocks' (suites), nested into a single
loop.

> To me, a block is a set of statements which are indivisibly executed
> when unexceptional operation occurs (within the block).  That is,
> assuming no exceptions occur, all statements within block1 execute.
> After a possible exception occurs, all statements in block2 execute.

Similarly, in the loop's case, assuming no exceptions occur, all
statements in suite1 execute; but the statements in suite2 are
then a different 'block', as it doesn't require any exception to
inhibit their execution.

> (Don't bother taking that definition too literally.  I understand
> the possibly of a return in the middle of the code, etc.  It's the
> spirit of this definition I want to communicate, not the letter. :)

But 'the devil is in the details'!  A 'basic block' as normally
considered by a compiler *does* need to consider conditional
breaks, continues, returns as terminating the block.


> These two blocks are effectively just 'sub-blocks' of whatever block
> of code contains the whole 'try/except' statement, which may or
> may not have preceeding and following statements.
>
> So no, I most definitely would have trouble if the 'except' statement
> were to be indented, since it is _not_ part of the <suite1> block
> in the 'try' portion of the code.

I still fail to see how you conceptualize a while/if...break as so
drastically different from an if/else, try/except, and so on.  I see
it as just syntax sugar, determined by historical accident, for
Knuth's loop/while statement:
    loop <condition1>:
        <suite1>
    while <condition2>:
        <suite2>
and consider the Python-enforced indentation of its spelling of
'while <condition2>:' (which is "if not <condition2>: break":-)
to be a minor annoyance.


> The graphical examination of the three brace/indentation styles in
> Code Complete by McCarthy is, in my opinion, an excellent way of
> comparing the alternatives.  I can't imagine anyone feeling
> wholly comfortable with the traditional K&R style after reading
> that section.

I've often been considered 'unimaginable', albeit for different
kinds of reasons, but let me assure you that I'm perfectly familiar
with McCarthy (and many, MANY other style books:-) and still
consider KR style by far the best.  Screen real-estate (most
specifically, number of lines displayed at once) is an important
resource to be invested wisely, not squandered...

> I was extremely happy to discover, in my first
> moments looking at Python code, that the indentation-based
> syntax of Python exactly maps to the style I've used for so long
> and which McCarthy argues is superior.

And I was just as happy to discover that Python's use of
indentation in lieu of braces completely avoids squandering
precious screen-lines unproductively -- just like (even better,
actually) the K & R style which I'll always keep using and
defending for C, C++, and Java sources.

Isn't Python just great in its ability to keep happy people
from such opposed camps, through the SAME device?-)  Worth all
the interminable threads on this group with non-Pythonistas who
are *adamant* Python *SHOULD* allow (or mandate) braces...!-)


Alex





From djmoore at uh.edu  Fri Jan 26 22:20:39 2001
From: djmoore at uh.edu (DaveMoore)
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 21:20:39 -0600
Subject: win32net NetServerEnum BufferSize, Resume
Message-ID: <kjf47t0capb2obuftos06n8i95mr4dbvtg@4ax.com>

I'm working with the Win32 API NetServerEnum function under
ActivePython 2.02.

The parameter prefLen, used by most of the enumeration functions,
specifies the size of the returned data buffer, which is copied to 
a list of dictionaries. The suggested size is 4096.

The Microsoft Platform System Development Kit says that if prefLen
(which they call prefmaxlen) is set to MAX_PREFERRED_LENGTH, the API
call will automagically allocate a buffer of the correct size.
LMCons.h defines MAX_PREFERRED_LENGTH as ((DWORD) -1), which I take to
mean one less than the maximum possible value (I am not a C coder).

If I set prefLen to, say,  -2 or 2147483647, the error 'Not enough
storage is available to process this command.' occurs.

On the other hand, if prefLen is too small, say 128, I only get a
partial list.

On the gripping hand, prefLen=-1 yields the entire list.

Does preflen=-1 result in a buffer of exactly the right size, or the
largest buffer that can be allocated?

NetServerEnum also returns resumeHandle, which supposedly allows you
to recall the function if there is more information. I'd think an
undersized buffer would be exactly what resumeHandle would cover, but
all my calls return zero. When, exactly, does the resume mechanism
kick in?

The code fragment below is based on John Nielson's NetWkstaUserEnum
example in the Win32 Extensions Network Overview. I've deleted
Nielson's initial call to Net...Enum, and just set resumeHandle
nonzero so as to go through the While loop at least once. Would this
be a problem if I did indeed need to resume?

# Begin
from win32net import NetServerEnum
def getservers(domain):
  SV_TYPE_ALL=0xFFFFFFFF
  resumeHandle=1  #Dummy resume handle
  prefLen= -1     #Preferred buffer size
  level=100       #Detail level
  srv=None        #PSDK says this is reserved, must be null.
  while resumeHandle: 
    try:
      (srvrs,total,resH2)=NetServerEnum(srv,level,SV_TYPE_ALL, \  
                                        domain, resumeHandle,  \
                                        prefLen)
      resumeHandle=resH2
      print "resumeHandle = ",resumeHandle," Total = ", total, \ 
            " prefLen=", prefLen
      for entry in srvrs:
        print entry["name"]
    except win32net.error, nerr:
      return nerr
  return "*** done"

print getservers(None)
# End

-- 
Dave Moore == djmoore at uh.edu == I speak for me.


From grante at visi.com  Thu Jan 11 10:51:31 2001
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 15:51:31 GMT
Subject: is Python fully object oriented ?
References: <20010110184830.13286.00000826@ng-fg1.aol.com>
Message-ID: <7Ek76.318$kn.60711@ruti.visi.com>

In article <20010110184830.13286.00000826 at ng-fg1.aol.com>, Crutoy wrote:

>Hi , i haven't used Python but i do have experience in other languages vb ,
>java , c++ . Is Python a fully object oriented ? Thanks

It's not fully-object-oriented in the way that Smalltalk is.
There are some basic types that aren't classes.  For example,
you can't subclass a string or an integer in Python.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  PUNK ROCK!! DISCO
                                  at               DUCK!! BIRTH CONTROL!!
                               visi.com            


From pearu at cens.ioc.ee  Wed Jan 10 16:51:01 2001
From: pearu at cens.ioc.ee (Pearu Peterson)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 23:51:01 +0200
Subject: SpecFuncs Module
In-Reply-To: <93i8am$msj@news.Informatik.Uni-Oldenburg.DE>
References: <93i8am$msj@news.Informatik.Uni-Oldenburg.DE>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10101102342001.21286-100000@kev.ioc.ee>


On 10 Jan 2001, Johannes Nix wrote:

> I remember that there is a SpecFuncs Module from 
> Travis Oliphant, which seems to be a wrapper for the 
> Netlib cephesmodule.
> 
> However, Travis' page at http://oliphant.netpedia.net was not
> reachable in the last few days. Could somebody point me to a mirror
> site, or perhaps someone has the module and is willing to send it to
> me ?  (But please, mail me before!).

Travis used our server for developing multipack, Multipack (not finished
new edition of multipack), and Sparse modules. You can get these modules
using CVS as follows:

  cvs -d :pserver:anonymous at cens.ioc.ee:/home/cvs login

(when it asks for a password, enter `guest')

  cvs -z6 -d :pserver:anonymous at cens.ioc.ee:/home/cvs checkout multipack

or

  cvs -z6 -d :pserver:anonymous at cens.ioc.ee:/home/cvs checkout Multipack

or

  cvs -z6 -d :pserver:anonymous at cens.ioc.ee:/home/cvs checkout Sparse

Or you could just browse the CVS repository in

http://cens.ioc.ee/cgi-bin/cvsweb/python/


Regards,
	Pearu



From syver at NOSPAMcyberwatcher.com  Sat Jan  6 20:33:55 2001
From: syver at NOSPAMcyberwatcher.com (Syver Enstad)
Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2001 02:33:55 +0100
Subject: Should I learn Python or Java?
References: <HEO56.5504$y9.2881293@typhoon.we.rr.com>
Message-ID: <938h6r$26j$1@troll.powertech.no>

"Charlotte Williams" <charlottwilliams at mediaone.net> wrote in message
news:HEO56.5504$y9.2881293 at typhoon.we.rr.com...

Hi Charlotte, I don't know what languages you should learn (probably best to
learn them all), but for windows programming with Python and considering
your VB background you really should buy/borrow/steal a copy of Python
programming on win32 from O'Reilly. I started with Python a couple of months
ago with that book and can recommend it warmly.




From andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au  Wed Jan 24 04:38:24 2001
From: andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au (Andrew MacIntyre)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 20:38:24 +1100 (EDT)
Subject: Tkinter spreadsheet or textgrid widget?
In-Reply-To: <94l7fo$k6k$1@news.fas.harvard.edu>
Message-ID: <Pine.OS2.4.30.0101242036310.553-100000@CENTRAL>

On 24 Jan 2001, William Ryu wrote:

> Tried a Google search but didn't come up with anything. Can someone point
> me to a Tkinter textgrid (i.e. spreadsheet type text/number entry) widget?

AFAIK there isn't one.  There is a TkTable widget which you might be able
to hack into Tkinter and use via Tcl commands.  Been trying to find
time/motivation to try this myself :-(

--
Andrew I MacIntyre                     "These thoughts are mine alone..."
E-mail: andrew.macintyre at aba.gov.au    (work) | Snail: PO Box 370
        andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au  (play) |        Belconnen  ACT  2616
        andymac at pcug.org.au           (play2) |        Australia




From tjreedy at udel.edu  Thu Jan 25 17:39:16 2001
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 17:39:16 -0500
Subject: converting from html to pdf
References: <mailman.980460512.13379.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <94q9eg$gn8$1@news.udel.edu>

> I am looking for pointers on how I can covert an html file to pdf using
> python.  I am new to python.  A project like this can really help get me
> started.

There is a standard library module for parsing html that should have come
with your distribution.  There is a publicly-available module or package
for writing pdf files - either search 'pdf' in newgroup/mlist archives
(still available at python.org?) or wait for someone to supply the
reference.

Connecting the two should be an interesting project that will get you well
started with Python.
Suggestion: start with simple html files restricted to a subset of html (no
tables, forms, etc) and get that to work.

Terry J. Reedy





From johann at physics.berkeley.edu  Tue Jan 16 12:47:32 2001
From: johann at physics.berkeley.edu (Johann Hibschman)
Date: 16 Jan 2001 09:47:32 -0800
Subject: httplib and cookies
Message-ID: <mty9wbl77v.fsf@astron.berkeley.edu>

Hi folks, webby question here.

Is there a way I can get httplib to handle cookie setting and requests
from the server?

I want to write a quick script that connects to a web site, slurps the
contents, and do something with it.  I can do that easily, if the site
doesn't need cookies, but what can I do if it does?

More concretely, I want to log in to my various web email accounts,
yahoo in particular, slurp the messages from them, add a tag to the
subject lines, and then bounce them to another email account.

Thanks for any help,

--Johann

-- 
Johann Hibschman                           johann at physics.berkeley.edu


From facelle at jumpy.it  Sun Jan 28 15:52:36 2001
From: facelle at jumpy.it (Fabrizio)
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 21:52:36 +0100
Subject: Newbie Excel question
Message-ID: <9520nf$gp2$1@serv1.albacom.net>

Hi,

Newbie, Python2.0, Windows 98, Win32-All, MS Excel97.


Experimenting with Python and Excel, I have found this example on the web :


# this example starts Excel, creates a new workbook,
# puts some text in the first and second cell
# closes the workbook without saving the changes
# and closes Excel.  This happens really fast, so
# you may want to comment out some lines and add them
# back in one at a time ... or do the commands interactively

from win32com.client import Dispatch

xlApp = Dispatch("Excel.Application")
xlApp.Visible = 1
xlApp.Workbooks.Add()
xlApp.ActiveSheet.Cells(1,1).Value = 'Python Rules!'
xlApp.ActiveWorkbook.ActiveSheet.Cells(1,2).Value = 'Python Rules 2!'
xlApp.Close(SaveChanges=0)
xlApp.Quit()
del xlApp



If I run it the program opens an Excel sheet, writes something in the cells,
but it fails to close !
This is what I get :


Traceback (innermost last):
  File "C:\Utili\Programmazione\Python\Programmi\excel.py", line 16, in ?
    xlApp.Close()
  File "C:\Python20\win32com\client\dynamic.py", line 435, in __getattr__
    raise AttributeError, "%s.%s" % (self._username_, attr)
AttributeError: Excel.Application.Close


Any help ?

Thanks in advance.

Fabrizio C.












From loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de  Fri Jan 19 08:19:17 2001
From: loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de (Martin von Loewis)
Date: 19 Jan 2001 14:19:17 +0100
Subject: adding the XML to 2.0 to be a mistake?
References: <mailman.979611383.15529.python-list@python.org> <3d8zocuqrd.fsf@kronos.cnri.reston.va.us> <3a646756.124812921@news1.on.sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <p6qzogn7k8a.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>

rjroy at takingcontrol.com (Robert Roy) writes:

> I agree with what you are saying. Another aspect that concerns me is
> that with the addition of the XML tools, xmllib is now deprecated. The
> recommended alternative, SAX, does not offer the level of control that
> xmllib does.

I don't know why it is deprecated. I'm in favour of un-deprecating it.

> Undeclared entities are a problem in SAX but can be handled cleanly
> using the unknown_entityref mecanism in xmllib.

They are not that much of a problem - there is the skippedEntity
routine.

> SAX as is now stands, handles marked CDATA sections as part of the
> data stream. This may be fine for most uses but may be undesireable
> when you are using XML as a container wrapping sections of html etc...
> 
> SAX swallows comments. Maybe I need to pass the comments through eg:
> if doing a translation.

Agreed; there are possible applications for that.

> I believe that in light of its unique capabilities, xmllib deserves a
> permanent place in the Python library. To improve performance (in
> sgmllib too), Fredrik's sgmlop extension should become part of the
> standard distribution as well. 

It seems to me that sgmlop has many problems: it doesn't work properly
(try running the PyXML test suites with only an sgmlop driver); and it
does not support Unicode.

> If at some point (py)expat evolves to the point where it can do
> everything that xmllib does (allow access to ALL entity refs,
> identification of marked sections, comments ...), then it could
> become the underlying library.

Today, pyexpat allows access to all entity refs to day, it reports the
start and the end of CDATA sections, and it reports comments. So while
I can follow the problems you have with SAX, I can't see why you
complain about pyexpat.

Regards,
Martin


From gnana at aristotech.com  Mon Jan  8 17:49:07 2001
From: gnana at aristotech.com (Gnana Kanagaratnam)
Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2001 14:49:07 -0800
Subject: Can we in python code, catch exception generated by C++ pythonized 
 function?
Message-ID: <3A5A43E3.7B850546@aristotech.com>

I tried and it won't. Anybody have any workaround for that? Any pointer
is appreciated. Thanks.

Regards,

Tong



From tim at degree.ath.cx  Fri Jan 19 20:12:52 2001
From: tim at degree.ath.cx (Tim Hammerquist)
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 01:12:52 GMT
Subject: BeOpen 2.0 vs ActiveState?
References: <6176E3D8E36FD111B58900805FA7E0F80CCF62F5@mcnc-mdm1-ex01> <mailman.979948551.14085.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrn96hpq1.1qg.tim@degree.ath.cx>

Paul Prescod <paulp at ActiveState.com> wrote:
> If we couldn't
> justify the development and maintenance cost of ActivePython in these
> two ways then we couldn't continue to develop it! 

And yet Python and Perl were both created and developed for years without
license restrictions.  Why does it cost so much more for your
company to slap its name on someone else's creation than it does for
someone to develop it from scratch in the first place?

I apologize to the group for this post.  It is a personal objection to
ActiveState's business practices, etc., and has no place in
comp.lang.python.  This will be the last article I post re. ActiveState.

If Paul would like to contact me, I would be interested in hearing what
he has to say.
-- 
-Tim Hammerquist <timmy at cpan.org>
I respectfully decline the invitation
to join your hallucination.
	-- Dilbert


From mwh21 at cam.ac.uk  Tue Jan 30 18:22:10 2001
From: mwh21 at cam.ac.uk (Michael Hudson)
Date: 30 Jan 2001 23:22:10 +0000
Subject: Sets in Python
References: <956hcd$qef$1@tyfon.itea.ntnu.no> <956s6k013u0@news2.newsguy.com> <m3snm07v3e.fsf@atrus.jesus.cam.ac.uk> <957erd$c4v$1@tyfon.itea.ntnu.no>
Message-ID: <m3lmrs7hi5.fsf@atrus.jesus.cam.ac.uk>

"Magnus Lie Hetland" <mlh at idi.ntnu.no> writes:

> "Michael Hudson" <mwh21 at cam.ac.uk> wrote in message
> news:m3snm07v3e.fsf at atrus.jesus.cam.ac.uk...
> > "Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com> writes:
> [...]
> > > Hi Magnus!  It's been a while...
> > >
> > > In Python 2.1, you'll be able to use
> > >     if x in dict
> > > as a synonym for
> > >     if dict.has_key(x)
> > > [and *maybe* the for-loop equivalent, too -- I'm still unclear
> > > about that one, and it doesn't seem to be in the first alpha].
> >
> > Uh huh; maybe not.  There have been second thoughts at high levels -
> > expect a PEP and to maybe see these features in 2.2.
> 
> Does that mean "maybe not" any of the features mentioned? Or only
> the ones in brackets?

"Maybe not" on "if x in dict" (and that's my maybe - Guido's probably
decided).
"for x in dict" is not going to be in 2.1.

I think.

> And if there is to be a PEP on this, might I humbly suggest an
> evaluation of some additional set-like methods etc.?
> I'm not sure what all of them might be, but at least I feel
> they should include adding and removing elements from the set...

Hey, if you really care, you could probably write the PEP!  I don't
know who's going to.  I'm not; I don't care much.

> For instance, you might have a method dict.add(element) which
> was equivalent to dict[element] = 1 or dict[element] = None
> (which is perhaps more logical) or something? dict.remove(element)
> could then be equivalent to del dict[element] or something?

Maybe.  Doubt it, personally.  *I* don't have a problem with using
what we have at the moment - it's just another idiom and once you've
seen in once, I'd expect that you'd recognize it again.

> Or perhaps even something like dict += element for adding an
> element and dict -= element for removing it? (That's what I did
> in my wrapper, but I'm not sure how good it is... Since it
> + might intuitively mean union... Oh, well...)

Again, maybe.  Somewhat less likely, I think.  The fact that you're
not sure damns it, I think.

Cheers,
M.

-- 
  If i don't understand lisp,  it would be wise to not bray about
  how lisp is stupid or otherwise criticize, because my stupidity 
  would be archived and open for all in the know to see.
                                                -- Xah, comp.lang.lisp


From emile at fenx.com  Mon Jan 15 07:06:46 2001
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 04:06:46 -0800
Subject: help retrieving / storing info in dictionary or gadfly
References: <93u48n$65t@dispatch.concentric.net>
Message-ID: <93up5c$bmv6i$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>

I needed this recently and ended up adding an "rindex"
method to lists in listobject.c.  It works like index, but
adds <= , < , > and => selection qualifiers.  I don't have
time this morning, but if you're interested and are
compiling from source, email me and I'll send you the
changes I made.

usage example:

I have a sorted list of strings that contain YYMMDD in [:6].
This function returns the slice for that day from the source
list of strings.

def pickOffDay(srce, cmpDt):
 idx = srce.rindex(cmpDt, 2)
 dtLen = srce[idx:].rindex(cmpDt, 1)
 return srce[idx:idx+dtLen]

>From the source code:

L.rindex(value, cmp) -> integer -- return index of first
occurrence of value
 where cmp is
 -2 - less than or equal
 -1 - less than
  0 - equal (same as current index)
  1 - greater than
  2 - greater than or equal";

--

Emile van Sebille
emile at fenx.com
-------------------


"Bryan Webb" <bww00 at amdahl.com> wrote in message
news:93u48n$65t at dispatch.concentric.net...
> Hello,
>     I have a dictionary that has records with keys from 1
to 2^128
> I can build a list and sort the keys in order, then search
thru the list of
> sorted keys.
>     If the list has 1,2,3,4,5,7,8,9 and I need to search
for 6. 6 is not in
> the list , so I need the record that is closest to 6 but
not greater than 6.
> Is there a way to further index the list of keys to do
this ?
>
> Could I use GADFLY to do this.
>
>
> Any ideas and help would be appreciated.
>
> Thanks
> bryan Webb
>
>




From andreas at andreas-jung.com  Fri Jan 12 02:14:55 2001
From: andreas at andreas-jung.com (Andreas Jung)
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 08:14:55 +0100
Subject: New Gopher Client
In-Reply-To: <kCp76.4424$CN6.913911@typhoon2.ba-dsg.net>; from s2mdalle@titan.vcu.edu on Thu, Jan 11, 2001 at 09:30:56PM +0000
References: <kCp76.4424$CN6.913911@typhoon2.ba-dsg.net>
Message-ID: <20010112081455.A4585@yetix.sz-sb.de>

On Thu, Jan 11, 2001 at 09:30:56PM +0000, David Allen wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> I'm posting this to announce a gopher client I've been
> working on in Python recently.  It's written using
> Pmw and Tkinter, and has been reported to work on 
> windows, although I haven't personally tried it there.
> 
> If you've never used Gopher before, I recommend you
> give it a shot, and if you have used gopher before,
> maybe it's time to give it another shot.  I would
> appreciate any feedback or patches that anyone is
> willing to contribute to the package, particularly
> to clear up some extremely puzzling very hard to
> reproduce problems with Tkinter and Pmw.  (Involving
> infrequent segmentation faults even)

Don't take it personel but why do people spend their time for such out-dated
protocols and technologies ?

Andreas 



From sholden at holdenweb.com  Tue Jan 16 18:49:14 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 18:49:14 -0500
Subject: Python equivalent of 'use strict'
References: <3A6483CD.CB2424E0@raqia.com> <94232r$297$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <%9596.1127$DI.17977@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>

"Hamish Lawson" <hamish_lawson at yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:94232r$297$1 at nnrp1.deja.com...
> David Lees wrote:
>
> > Is there an equivalent to the perl 'use strict'? [My perl/C++ guru
> > friend] is concerned with accidentally initializing values of
> > mistyped variables. I showed him how you get an error doing an
> > operation with an uninitialized variable ... but he is looking for
> > this 'use strict' stuff.
>
> Python effectively has "use strict" on all the time and all assignments
> effectively use "my".

 [ ... ]

> (though I concede that using 'my' on both assignments is not quite
> idiomatic Perl). Similarly, Python won't stop you saying:
>
>     foo = 2
>     fooo = foo + 1
>
> where you meant
>
>     foo = 2
>     foo = foo + 1
>
Of course in 2.0 you would write

        foo += 1

and you would get an error if you tried

        fooo += 1

instead. This is a bonus I hadn't envisaged when considering augmented
asignments.

regards
 Steve




From marco at crepido.com  Thu Jan 18 14:48:38 2001
From: marco at crepido.com (Marco =?iso-8859-1?Q?Seiri=F6?=)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 20:48:38 +0100
Subject: Python & GUI?
Message-ID: <3A674896.C7E52247@crepido.com>

Are there any GUI components or ways to build a GUI in
Python that contains all the widgets that one would expect to
find in a VB or Java environment. Can you (easily) build things
like explorer like applications and such...

/M



From paulp at ActiveState.com  Fri Jan 19 17:14:13 2001
From: paulp at ActiveState.com (Paul Prescod)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 14:14:13 -0800
Subject: BeOpen 2.0 vs ActiveState?
References: <6176E3D8E36FD111B58900805FA7E0F80CCF62F5@mcnc-mdm1-ex01>
Message-ID: <3A68BC35.83EC5526@ActiveState.com>

ActiveState is a products company and we need people to know about our
other products. ActivePython is a service we provide to the community in
exhange for the traffic to our website. It also is not unusual for
someone to pay us for the right to redistribute ActivePerl and we expect
that to someday also be an ActivePython revenue stream. If we couldn't
justify the development and maintenance cost of ActivePython in these
two ways then we couldn't continue to develop it! 

 Paul Prescod



From poseidon_cma at my-deja.com  Tue Jan 30 09:29:53 2001
From: poseidon_cma at my-deja.com (poseidon_cma at my-deja.com)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 14:29:53 GMT
Subject: Calling an exe within Python
References: <20010129215504.07374.00004165@ng-fi1.aol.com>
Message-ID: <956j4o$234$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

i've been using this to call batch files:

cmd=os.popen(call)
list=cmd.readlines()
result=cmd.close()

list is the output of the program, result has the
script wait.

Cheers
james


> (1) Easy question, is this possible?
> (2) When I do such a call, does execution
within the Python script wait for the
> exe to finish or does it spawn a new threat for
the exe and move on?


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From scarblac at pino.selwerd.nl  Fri Jan  5 02:09:20 2001
From: scarblac at pino.selwerd.nl (Remco Gerlich)
Date: 5 Jan 2001 07:09:20 GMT
Subject: Migrating to perl?
References: <3Fa56.4580$of7.216286@news1.atl> <933fa1$j2i$1@newshost.accu.uu.nl> <ggd56.4652$of7.222552@news1.atl>
Message-ID: <slrn95asih.tss.scarblac@pino.selwerd.nl>

Joel Ricker <joejava at dragonat.net> wrote in comp.lang.python:
> From your examples, Pythons class model is much cleaner.  Also if I
> understand your example, variables internal to the object are kept
> internal -- they can't be accessed without a proper method.

This is not true, just the way he did it.

In Python, nothing is ever private, you can always inspect and change
everything. It's very dynamic. The programmer has the responsibility to
decide when he wants to use the dynamic things.

In most cases you won't need that power, so you don't use it. In very few
cases, you'll be very happy with the flexibility :).

> With perl
> anything goes.  There are some techniques to prevent this but it isn't
> definite.  Its actually this very topic that made me throw my new OO book
> across the room and subscribed to this newsgroup :)

Well, then let's say that you came here to see this is not all bad :)

> I've mentioned before that I'm real new to OO.  How should I approach it in
> Python?  Has anyone learned OO just from Python?  Or should I study OO
> theory else where and then apply it to Python?  I know this is bordering on
> the question of how do I do OO but I really know very little about it...
> enough to know that I can benefit from it and basic ideas.  I understand the
> idea of a class and building objects from it but anything beyond that is
> still really new to me.  Any suggestions?

There is not much more to it. When you have a data structure, possibly
pretty complex, with functions that work on data of that type, make it into
an object.

In large projects, the hairy thing is deciding which objects to make, how
your module structure should look like, etc. There are some books for that
but experience is most important in my opinion. (People will disagree here -
don't start a discussion, just list some good books ;)).

> I heard something about curley braces as well.  No {} for blocks?  Thats
> going to take some getting used to :)

Did you see his class example? That is how it looks. I love it.

-- 
Remco Gerlich


From tanzer at swing.co.at  Wed Jan 24 03:41:37 2001
From: tanzer at swing.co.at (Christian Tanzer)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 09:41:37 +0100
Subject: Python for embedded systems (was Re: What does Python do) 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 24 Jan 2001 00:23:58 EST."
             <3A6E66EE.38FEB4F0@engcorp.com> 
Message-ID: <m14LLUn-000wcEC@swing.co.at>

Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:

> > A lot of real-time system designers cringe at _any_ use of
> > dynamic memory allocation (other than a frame stack).  Dynamic
> > _anything_ is the bane of an embedded system.  Although Java
> > was supposed to be useful for embedded systems, it's been a
> > tough sell.
> 
> Dynamic memory allocation is not inherently contrary to the 
> requirements of real-time, although many people still think
> "speed" instead of "deterministic" when the word real-time
> comes into the conversation.  I think with a little care,
> and a generous upper limit for what you consider "soon enough",
> dynamic memory allocation can meet real-time requirements
> in certain cases.

You're right -- the important point is `deterministic'. But ensuring
deterministic behaviour in the presence of dynamic memory allocation
is a royal pain.

And while the combination of `a little care', `generous upper limit',
and `certain cases' might allow deterministic behaviour with dynamic
memory allocation you will still hava a hard time in validating the
system (or convincing the FAA or another third party about it).

-- 
Christian Tanzer                                         tanzer at swing.co.at
Glasauergasse 32                                       Tel: +43 1 876 62 36
A-1130 Vienna, Austria                                 Fax: +43 1 877 66 92




From fredrik at effbot.org  Sat Jan 13 11:09:16 2001
From: fredrik at effbot.org (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 16:09:16 GMT
Subject: Strange variable scope... is this right?
References: <gcqp39.jkk.ln@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <M4%76.5851$Qb7.837342@newsb.telia.net>

gradha at iname.com wrote:
> I expected python to bark at me like C would, but from what I read in the
> tutorials, this seems to be one of those variable scope issues, right?

Nope.  All f's represent the same variable, but it points
to different objects at different places in your program.

Don't have time for a detailed explanation, but I suggest
you spend a little time reading up on how names, objects,
and assignments really work in Python.  Start here:

    http://effbot.org/guides/python-objects.htm

and then read

    http://www.python.org/doc/current/ref/objects.html
    http://www.python.org/doc/current/ref/execframes.html
    http://www.python.org/doc/current/ref/assignment.html

Gotta run /F




From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Jan  5 11:33:25 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 17:33:25 +0100
Subject: Migrating to perl?
References: <3Fa56.4580$of7.216286@news1.atl> <mailman.978664384.24951.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <934t2902t13@news2.newsguy.com>

"Issac Trotts" <trotts at llnl.gov> wrote in message
news:mailman.978664384.24951.python-list at python.org...
> It's not clear that "migrating" is the best way to look at this.
> Python has various strengths and weaknesses that complement
> those of Perl and other languages.  For instance, Python's OO support
> is much cleaner than Perl's, but Perl is better suited for various
> scripting tasks.

I don't agree on the latter sentence, though I've heard such
thoughts expressed often.  When I first took up Python, one
thing I did was recode in Python _all_ the Perl scripts I had
(and I had a *lot*), and in no case did I notice any problem
showing Perl to be 'better suited'.  I'm told there may be
some performance advantages to Perl in some cases, but in my
scripting tasks I never noticed problems with Python's speed;
I guess your mileage may vary on this!


Alex





From gregj at pobox.com  Thu Jan  4 19:58:46 2001
From: gregj at pobox.com (Greg Jorgensen)
Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 00:58:46 GMT
Subject: isnumeric (mhlib.py)
References: <3A548B2A.B45DC580@cs.utwente.nl>
Message-ID: <a%856.231774$U46.7098447@news1.sttls1.wa.home.com>

"Richard van de Stadt" <stadt at cs.utwente.nl> wrote in message
news:3A548B2A.B45DC580 at cs.utwente.nl...
> Hi,
>
> I needed a function to check if a string is a number....

My stab at the Pythonic way:

# isnumeric - return 1 if argument is a valid number (integer or floating
point), 0 if not
def isnumeric(s):
    try:
        v = float(s)
        return 1
    except:
        return 0

>>> isnumeric('123')
1
>>> isnumeric(123)
1
>>> isnumeric('')
0
>>> isnumeric('greg')
0
>>> isnumeric('10E+6')
1

etc.

If you want to check for valid integers only change the float() to int().

--
Greg Jorgensen
PDXperts
Portland, Oregon, USA
gregj at pobox.com




From delza at antarcti.ca  Tue Jan 23 22:59:00 2001
From: delza at antarcti.ca (Dethe Elza)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 03:59:00 GMT
Subject: PyGTK wrapper for diacanvas?
References: <2l4b6.132$wt4.93794@news.pacbell.net>
Message-ID: <8qsb6.60020$ED.2518777@news1.rdc1.bc.home.com>

Haven't done this, and unfortunately I don't have a lot of spare cycles to
help with it, but I'd be happy to bang on it when you're finished and let
you know what I find.

Sounds like a great project.  Thanks for taking it on.

--Dethe

"Phlip" <phlip_cpp at my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:2l4b6.132$wt4.93794 at news.pacbell.net...
> Pythons:
>
> Diacanvas is the widget version of "dia", the Gnome Diagram Editor.
>
> I'm currently wrapping it in PyGTK-style Python, so we can drive it from a
> high level language here.
>
> If anyone has already done this, or wants to help do this, please tell me
> so we can synchronize efforts.
>
> --
>   Phlip                          phlip_cpp at my-deja.com
> ============ http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?PhlIp ============
>   --  Whoever dies with the most features wins  --




From pbjorn at uswest.net  Wed Jan  3 10:21:11 2001
From: pbjorn at uswest.net (Bjorn Pettersen)
Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 08:21:11 -0700
Subject: why no "do : until"?
References: <92jj3j$ff7$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <slrn94shbe.150.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <X8s36.2731$Qb7.305339@newsb.telia.net> <slrn94smds.150.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <FOt36.17$vd1.2224@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com> <slrn94t1vj.150.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <3A4E95FD.D6C737A7@engcorp.com> <slrn94tqkh.150.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <tpr46.7782$4c.597534@ruti.visi.com> <slrn954h6p.rgv.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <3A52AD6A.62D043A2@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <3A534367.36B1FD18@uswest.net>

Peter Hansen wrote:

> [snip]
> You are a cowboy-hacker type of programmer, not one working as a serious
> software engineer in a group environment, right?  Or, if the latter, your
> management just hasn't caught on yet.

Ad hominem attacks are out of place on c.l.py

> Seriously, nobody who really programs for a living instead of as a hobby
> should (in my opinion) have the attitude you express above towards a
> maintenance issue such as this.  In my opinion.  Nothing personal.

Personally, I find it more problematic to manage all the possible places in a while
1 loop that an exit can take place. While an unfortunate variable initialization
isn't good by any means, I would expect a loop that wasn't entered to be caught by
the test harness, having a loop accidentally exit because you forgot to change one
of the exit conditions might be harder to catch -- which incidentally is why I don't
allow while(1) or for(;;) in any project I work on unless you're writing a deamon
like prosess (and in case you were wondering, I'm the lead for a 100K+ line
project).

In any case, from the tone of the discourse in this thread it seems it would fit
better in the other p-language group. The "while 1" loop seems to be a holy cow in
Python. It can't be critiziced, and it won't be changed -- and this really should be
in the faq.

Since nobody is going to change their mind at this point, can we hope that this
thread will die?

-- bjorn




From maandjoy at concentric.net  Sat Jan 20 19:49:16 2001
From: maandjoy at concentric.net (maandjoy at concentric.net)
Date: 21 Jan 2001 00:49:16 GMT
Subject: BeOpen 2.0 vs PythonWare
References: <mailman.979914382.23892.python-list@python.org> <o3aa6.7717$AH6.1213244@newsc.telia.net> <94btrs$4rr$1@news.adamastor.ac.za>
Message-ID: <3a6a3197.1039309@news.xo.com>

The Windows extensions, Win32All are part of the ActiveState
distribution: www.activestate.com

M


On Sat, 20 Jan 2001 13:51:15 +0200, "James Lockley" <jpl at global.co.za>
wrote:

>
>"Fredrik Lundh" <fredrik at effbot.org> wrote
>
>> hey, you forgot one: the PythonWare PY20 distro:
>>
>>     http://www.pythonware.com/downloads.htm
>>
>
>i found i couldn't add win32all to it though.... (is that just a directory
>naming issue?)
>
>cheers
>james
>
>



From gregj at pobox.com  Sat Jan  6 06:29:52 2001
From: gregj at pobox.com (Greg Jorgensen)
Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2001 11:29:52 GMT
Subject: Iterating over multiple lists (a newbie question)
References: <3a539f3a.445366109@localhost> <3a54d0c5.523585234@localhost> <sT856.231717$U46.7096316@news1.sttls1.wa.home.com> <3a5566c9.135365705@newnews.prodigy.net>
Message-ID: <QkD56.235798$U46.7334091@news1.sttls1.wa.home.com>

"Victor Muslin" <victor at prodigy.net> wrote in message
news:3a5566c9.135365705 at newnews.prodigy.net...
> Thanks, but I must have not been very clear. The fact that my example was
> parsing command line arguments is incidental. The point was that it is
nice to
> have a clean iteration over a list as in:
>
> for item in list:
>
> but this nice paradigm breaks down when you have to move the iterator
along the
> list inside a loop under certain conditions. Then you are into the
ugliness of
> iteration via indexes.  If there were another method associated with a
list
> object to move the iterator it would have been very useful.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but Python only looks like it has list
iterators. Based on my understanding of the methods supported by sequence
types, the statement

    for item in list:
        ...

is equivalent to

    for i in range(len(list)):
        item = list[i]
        ...

Nothing prevents you from writing your own list iterator. Look at the
UserList module/class; it's the obvious place to start.

--
Greg Jorgensen
PDXperts
Portland, Oregon, USA
gregj at pobox.com




From quinn at quetzal.ugcs.caltech.edu  Tue Jan 23 02:24:28 2001
From: quinn at quetzal.ugcs.caltech.edu (Quinn Dunkan)
Date: 23 Jan 2001 07:24:28 GMT
Subject: [newbie]How to write lines of code in stdout ( like ksh -x option)?
References: <94cftu$np4$1@front5m.grolier.fr> <slrn96kk7s.9v2.quinn@regurgitate.ugcs.caltech.edu> <94f6f5$4nl$1@front2.grolier.fr>
Message-ID: <slrn96qcdb.gfi.quinn@quetzal.ugcs.caltech.edu>

On Sun, 21 Jan 2001 18:31:43 +0100, Pierre-Louis Gaucheron
<pilou_g at club-internet.fr> wrote:
>Thanks for the answer,
>but now how can I print the lines with their arguments evaluated, like in
>your example :
>"y = 10 * 2" instead of  "y  = x * 2" ?

That's trickier.  You'll have to parse the string...  the parser module might
help.  Or if you wanna wimp out, a re.search(s, r'\b(\w+)\b').findall() or
however the syntax goes might do.  Once you extract the variables you're
interested from the string, you can find their values in the frame object.

I'll let you do this one since I'm not at a python REPL right now :)


From othello at javanet.com  Wed Jan  3 10:25:11 2001
From: othello at javanet.com (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 10:25:11 -0500
Subject: turtle.py bugfix & questions
References: <ICt36.11$vd1.1285@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <3A534457.BB159DAB@javanet.com>

Kragen Sitaker wrote:

>
> Larger questions I have: is anyone using turtle.py?
> http://www.python.org/1.5/NEWS-152.txt says:
>

Yes, I've been working on a Tk based GUI for turtle.py.
The goal is to teach elementary visual programming.  I'm
using the style of  the Lego Mindstorms program interface where
each primitive is a selectable on-screen block and new blocks
can be made from groupings of other blocks.

The easy part is writing the Py module.  The hard part will be
to write some lesson outlines and test them on real kids.

Raymond Hettinger
othello at javanet.com



From tim at degree.ath.cx  Thu Jan 11 03:54:17 2001
From: tim at degree.ath.cx (Tim Hammerquist)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 08:54:17 GMT
Subject: Speed of Python vs. Perl
References: <t5eojolijv1e58@corp.supernews.com> <WN366.240570$_5.53720921@news4.rdc1.on.home.com>
Message-ID: <slrn95qtbp.94d.tim@degree.ath.cx>

Michael P. Soulier <msoulier at storm.ca> wrote:
> In article <t5eojolijv1e58 at corp.supernews.com>, AndroidMonkey wrote:
> >In the last Maximum Linux magazine, there was an article about using Perl
> >for a car MP3 player.  It got me wondering - What's the speed of Python like
> >compared to Perl? I've never used Perl before, so I hope someone could
> >answer my question here. Thanks  -vm

The biggest effective difference between the two is how the programmer
interacts with it.  Perl tends to have a longer learning curve, which
many (maybe not in _this_ NG) consider worth it.  =)  This still doesn't
make either better nor more robust than the other.

> [msoulier at lupus test]$ time ./bench.pl
> 
> real    0m2.006s
> user    0m1.950s
> sys     0m0.030s
> 
> [msoulier at lupus test]$ time ./bench.py
> 
> real    0m0.558s
> user    0m0.440s
> sys     0m0.050s

How much of these times is the startup time for the interpreters?
Python has a profiler, and the Standard Perl Dist. includes the
Benchmark module for this purpose.  This would give you a more accurate
picture of where the processor spends its time.

>     I ran these a few times to ensure that the perl and python interpreters
> were in the disk cache.

Still doesn't cover interpreter startup time, but commonly overlooked.

>     They are comparable in any case, but it really depends on what you use
> them for. It's not really much of a relevant question anyway. If one performs
> worse than the other, it's still fine if it performs fast enough for your
> purposes. 
>     Besides, if you want "real" performance, use C. ;-)

I'm glad you mentioned this.  If speed is _that_ important for any given
program, consider if it should be written in a lower-level language such
as C/C++, or just cut out the processor intensive section, write and
compile in C, and link in.  Both Perl and Python support this.

-- 
-Tim Hammerquist <timmy at cpan.org>
I am opposed to millionaires, but it would
be dangerous to offer me the position.
	-- Mark Twain


From mitjase at hotmail.com  Thu Jan 18 05:25:23 2001
From: mitjase at hotmail.com (Mitja Semolic)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 02:25:23 -0800
Subject: printing .rtf files in windows
Message-ID: <Uyz96.320$6a.19695@news.siol.net>

I use a template .rtf file and fill it with data. Then I would just need to
print it, but how?

I remember seeing an example in Python tutorial, but I couldn't find it.

Thanks, Mitja




From cg at schlund.de  Wed Jan 10 11:42:54 2001
From: cg at schlund.de (Carsten Gaebler)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 17:42:54 +0100
Subject: Please help with feeding a popen2 pipe with a large input
References: <ma2p5t860t53llqp9jec2umqcj2073hf5d@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3A5C910E.F8C15D0@schlund.de>

Alain TESIO wrote:

> Hi, I'm trying to use popen2 (on a linux machine), I can't write more than 16K in the
> input stream and I can't figure out how to use the bufsize parameter.
> I've tried to open the pipe with bufsize=1000 and write 1000 bytes at a time.
> 
> Here is the test program I'm using with a pipe to cat and the output, it hangs when trying
> to write the 16th block.

This is because you never read the output of the pipe, so cat's STDOUT
fills up and blocks which keeps cat from reading from STDIN which fills
up and blocks, too.


cg.


From uche at ogbuji.net  Tue Jan 30 20:33:12 2001
From: uche at ogbuji.net (Uche Ogbuji)
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 01:33:12 GMT
Subject: PyXML
References: <m37l3f76i7.fsf@boss.dreamsoft.com>
Message-ID: <3A776B59.FDEC3975@ogbuji.net>

Venkatesh Prasad Ranganath wrote:

> If a xml document linked to an external dtd is read using
> xml.dom.ext.reader.Sax2.Reader object's fromStream() method then the
> document's doctype should have the systemId specified in the document but this
> is not true in PyXML.
> 
> I am using PyXML from pyxml.sourceforge.net on a linux box with Python 2.0.  The
> XMLDocument will have a doctype but instead of the uri to the external dtd the
> DocumentType's systemId will be empty.
> 
> Is this the right behaviour for DOM Core level 2 specification?  Or Am I missing
> something?  Or is PyXML broken?

This sounds like a bug.  If you posted a small script that demos the
problem, it will probably get fixed quickly (i.e. I'll probably fix it).

Thanks.

-- 
Uche Ogbuji
Personal:   uche at ogbuji.net		http://uche.ogbuji.net
Work:       uche.ogbuji at fourthought.com	http://Fourthought.com


From thomas at xs4all.net  Tue Jan 30 04:21:05 2001
From: thomas at xs4all.net (Thomas Wouters)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 10:21:05 +0100
Subject: how to store great array?
In-Reply-To: <slrn97bjo6.8va.quinn@bolivar.ugcs.caltech.edu>; from quinn@bolivar.ugcs.caltech.edu on Mon, Jan 29, 2001 at 08:13:58PM +0000
References: <953sps$nta$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <slrn97bjo6.8va.quinn@bolivar.ugcs.caltech.edu>
Message-ID: <20010130102105.B962@xs4all.nl>

On Mon, Jan 29, 2001 at 08:13:58PM +0000, Quinn Dunkan wrote:

> But python's lists are arrays.  Don't ask me why this confusing
> terminology was chosen, probably because some Dutch people doing usability
> tests thought 'list' sounded nicer for ABC a million years ago.

I'm not sure where list comes from, but I'm sure glad they're called lists
and not arrays! To C programmers, arrays mean 'lists of a single type'. To
people who never heard of arrays (like newbie programmers), arrays mean
'wtf?'. Only to people who judge a datatype by name instead of documentation
*and* are used to a programming language where a list is defined as a linked
list, might 'list' seem 'wrong'. I came from LambdaMOO, where you program in
a wonderfully OO (for a MUD, anyway) and very Python-like programming
language, and I was absolutely delighted when I met Python, which had the
first *real* lists I'd seen in years.

> Dict access is also constant, as is usual for a hash table (internally, it
> gets turned into simple array access).  But if your indices will be inteeger,
> then a plain array aka list will have less overhead.

Only if you have (near) sequential keys. If you have large gaps in your keys
(say 60% or more 'unused' keys, but a dict expert like Tim can probably
correct me :), you're better off with a dictionary -- you won't have to
allocate quite as much room for it.

> Python experts could tell you the exact memory usage.  It will be something
> like bytes_in_string+null + pointer + type_field + maybe_a_cached_hash +
> interned_flag.  So with ~4 bytes overhead for each 5 byte string, you're
> looking at 9*2_000_000 / 1024 / 1024 = 17MB for 2 million elements.

Actually, a string object is defined like this (from Include/stringobject.h):

typedef struct {
    PyObject_VAR_HEAD
#ifdef CACHE_HASH
    long ob_shash;
#endif
#ifdef INTERN_STRINGS
    PyObject *ob_sinterned;
#endif
    char ob_sval[1];
} PyStringObject;

where both CACHE_HASH and INTERN_STRINGS are defined by default.
PyObject_VAR_HEAD is a macro that contains PyOject_HEAD and an ob_size
integer, and PyObject_HEAD holds a pointer to the type struct and an int for
the reference count (if you don't enable extreme debugging.) So, all in all:

pointer + int + int + long + pointer (ob_sval is a placeholder that gets
allocated to the right size in the PyString_New) = 160 bytes on a 32bit
system, 256 bytes on a proper 64bit system, and 224 bytes on Win64. Plus the
length of the string in whatever size a char is on that particular system
(usually a single byte.)

-- 
Thomas Wouters <thomas at xs4all.net>

Hi! I'm a .signature virus! copy me into your .signature file to help me spread!



From rturpin at my-deja.com  Wed Jan 17 13:08:07 2001
From: rturpin at my-deja.com (rturpin at my-deja.com)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 18:08:07 GMT
Subject: Any way to restrict execution with regard to execution time??
Message-ID: <944n1v$8t6$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

The restricted execution module let's you run untrusted code
in a fashion that gives it only guarded access to the file
system, operating system services, and other important
resources. However, it provides no guard for the most important
resource: execution time. The moment untrusted code is
invoked by r_exec, it can go into an infinite loop.

The natural way to deal with this is to put the guarded
execution in one thread, and have a second thread that
serves to time-out the first thread. But there is no way
for one thread to kill another thread, so that's no help.

So here's the problem, that seems intractable in Python.
There are two pieces of code, C1 and C2. C1 wants to run
C2, but does not trust it to consume only a reasonable
amount of time (measured in any fashion). How can C1 run
C2 guaranteeing that C2's execution is interrupted after
some finite amount of time, if it hasn't finished by
then? C2 is from an untrusted source, so the answer
cannot be phrased in terms of how C2 is written. I'd be
much obliged to anyone who can tell me how to do this!

Russell


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk  Thu Jan 18 03:57:15 2001
From: SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk (Simon Brunning)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 08:57:15 -0000
Subject: Jython on the i400 (was: Python and Industry, IBM I'm afraid)
Message-ID: <31575A892FF6D1118F5800600846864D5B1723@intrepid>

> From:	Pete [SMTP:p at mjs400.co.uk]
> 
> Don't forget to call it the i400, or iSeries 400, these things matter.
> Especially as this machine seems misunderstood by those outside of the
> clique.
 
Pete,
You're probably one of those people who use kilograms and grams, rather than
pounds and ounces as God intended, right? It's the AS/400, dammit. ;-)

Yes, yes, OK, OK, you're right, let's call it the i400 or something. But for
the moment, and for a long while to come, you will have to say "i400 (A.K.A.
AS/400)", 'cos no one has heard of the i400.

If IBM's crack marketing team is up to its usual standard, perhaps they
never will.

If you just say i400, people will think that you are talking about something
running one of those nasty *nix OSs. Or worse, one of those *really* nasty
Micros~1 OSs.

Keep the Faith.

Cheers,
Simon Brunning
TriSystems Ltd.
sbrunning at trisystems.co.uk





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From rscobee at pbsj.com  Fri Jan 26 15:35:14 2001
From: rscobee at pbsj.com (Scobee, Richard)
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 15:35:14 -0500
Subject: Use Python instead of Perl's GifGraph?
Message-ID: <94sneo$507$1@sshuraaa-i-1.production.compuserve.com>

I have done very little Perl programming and that was a while back, but I am
finding a need for a feature that seems to be well developed in Perl:
generating Web-browser compatible charts/graphs at run-time from database
data and calculations.  I have a copy of O'Reilly's Programming Web Graphics
with Perl & GNU Software by Shawn P. Wallace and it describes GIFGraph which
seems perfectly suited to this task.  But being a casual follower of
programming trends, it seems that Python is quickly replacing Perl as the
web programmers scripting language of choice.  So I was just wandering if
there are any libraries similar to GIFGraph already in Python or if I should
just go ahead and figure out how to do it in Perl.

I am working on a couple of intranet applications and both have potential
uses for run-time generated charts/graphs generated from database data and
calculations.  My background is mostly in VB but the biggest of these
projects is primarly using Oracle's implementation of J2EE in Windows NT so
I am already struggling with new tools, true OO programming, Java, etc.
>From what I've read, Python sounds far more attractive for getting something
new to work in a new language than I remember Perl being.  But if I have to
write my own graph generating library in Python, wouldn't it be more
productive to just struggle with Perl's GIFGraph?  I would try to do most of
the work in Java but probably use CGI to feed the numbers to be graphed to
the Perl or Python script to generate a GIF.  Does this approach make sense?
Is Python a good choice for this?

Any opinions on this would be greatly appreciated.

Richard J. Scobee
Information Solutions Developer
PBS&J
Miami, FL
rscobee at pbsj.com




From joejava at dragonat.net  Thu Jan  4 21:49:00 2001
From: joejava at dragonat.net (Joel Ricker)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 21:49:00 -0500
Subject: Migrating to perl?
Message-ID: <3Fa56.4580$of7.216286@news1.atl>

 I'm thinking of moving from perl to python and I was looking for opinions
on the difference.  I'm sure this being a python-centric group that I'll get
very pro-python answers but I'm sure there are some old or current perl
programmers that should be able to fill me in.

Personally, I'm starting to get a little fustrated with perl.  To me, being
that there are so many contexts that code can be interpreted in it gets
confusing sometimes hunting down bugs.  Also, I've been learning OO perl
lately and deviations from what the code says should work and the
documentation says should work is an excercise in fustration and I'm about
ready to chunk it out the window.

So basically what I'd like to know is, how do the two compare?  Is there an
easier learning curve with Python?  Are the modules and add-ons as good as
perl (ie, Database -- I'm primarily interested in MySQL, CGI, Graphics).
What about OOP?  Is it it a full OO language?  Is it easier than to use than
perl?  Perl OO just feels like it has been cludged together.

And lastly, what about the Python community?  Is it friendlier than the perl
community?  Too many times I've asked questions and all I'll get is pointers
to documentation, which I've already read and so thats why I'm asking for
information in the first place.  I understand simple questions for basic or
novice information will warrant answers like that but not the things I've
asked.

Well thanks for any info.
Joel





From kalle at gnupung.net  Tue Jan 30 16:16:32 2001
From: kalle at gnupung.net (Kalle Svensson)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 22:16:32 +0100
Subject: localtime(clock()) yields 12/31/69 under Wme
In-Reply-To: <3A772BB5.77A3078C@yahoo.com>; from haaserd@yahoo.com on Tue, Jan 30, 2001 at 02:01:41PM -0700
References: <3A772BB5.77A3078C@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20010130221632.A1066@apone.network.loc>

Sez haaserd:
> Hi,
> This is my first attempt at using the time module.  I get:
> 
> >>>
> >>> import time
> >>> time.clock()
> 14628.151040915873
> >>> time.localtime(time.clock())
> (1969, 12, 31, 21, 3, 57, 2, 365, 0)
> >>>
> 

You probably want time.time(), not time.clock().

Peace,
  Kalle
-- 
Email: kalle at gnupung.net     | You can tune a filesystem, but you
Web: http://www.gnupung.net/ | can't tune a fish. -- man tunefs(8)
PGP fingerprint: 0C56 B171 8159 327F 1824 F5DE 74D7 80D7 BF3B B1DD
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From nas at arctrix.com  Mon Jan 15 17:43:29 2001
From: nas at arctrix.com (Neil Schemenauer)
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 14:43:29 -0800
Subject: Problem with a tuple - newbie ignorance
In-Reply-To: <i1k76t8g9dr5fft0v0phcr98hb6qkdjbaq@4ax.com>; from danielsatalandanielsdotcom@python.org on Tue, Jan 16, 2001 at 12:00:48AM -0500
References: <3A633531.9010303@yale.edu> <3A635C32.9E5285C5@yale.edu> <i1k76t8g9dr5fft0v0phcr98hb6qkdjbaq@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <20010115144328.A6415@glacier.fnational.com>

On Tue, Jan 16, 2001 at 12:00:48AM -0500, Alan Daniels wrote:
> 3) If you find yourself doing the double-backslash a lot (thanks,
> Microsoft!), rather than typing...
> > dir = os.listdir('D:\\statlab\\ssda\\data')
> ...you can write this as...
> 
>   dir = os.listdir(r'D:\statlab\ssda\data')

How about:

    dir = os.listdir('D:/statlab/ssda/data')

I'm pretty sure that works too but I'm running Linux now and
can't test it.

  Neil



From djtweed at my-deja.com  Wed Jan  3 20:03:30 2001
From: djtweed at my-deja.com (djtweed at my-deja.com)
Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 01:03:30 GMT
Subject: Zope Admin problem
Message-ID: <930i4u$584$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

Hello,
I've been running Squishdot on zope 2.2.4 for a while now.  Everything
ws great, but then all of a sudden, when I log into the ZOPE ADMIN
section, the right panel displays my web site, and not the tools that
should be there.  The Client machine is running Win2000, IE5.5.  Zope
is on a Redhat 6.2 machine using the Zserver web server.

If i goto work, and use the NT4/IE5.5 machine there, I can login fine.
Very strange????
Thanks,
Tweed
http://www.hbhol.com



Sent via Deja.com
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From cpr at emsoftware.com  Mon Jan 15 16:44:21 2001
From: cpr at emsoftware.com (Chris Ryland)
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 21:44:21 GMT
Subject: Problem with a tuple - newbie ignorance
References: <3A633531.9010303@yale.edu> <3A635C32.9E5285C5@yale.edu>
Message-ID: <93vqvj$5ol$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

In article <3A635C32.9E5285C5 at yale.edu>,
  Steven Citron-Pousty <steven.citron-pousty at yale.edu> wrote:

You are getting bitten by the usual object/reference confusion.

When you assign "... = ifields" you're just creating a new name for the
same objects referenced by ifields. So, when you modify list elements
under the new name, you're also modifying what ifields references.

--
Chris Ryland * Em Software, Inc. * www.emsoftware.com


Sent via Deja.com
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From mnajmeddine at geo.census.gov  Mon Jan 29 11:01:42 2001
From: mnajmeddine at geo.census.gov (Mohamed Najmeddine)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 11:01:42 -0500
Subject: cgi
In-Reply-To: <LNBBJMBHBAJKJGAJCGABKEMPCHAA.mnajmeddine@geo.census.gov>
Message-ID: <LNBBJMBHBAJKJGAJCGABOEMPCHAA.mnajmeddine@geo.census.gov>


-----Original Message-----
From: Mohamed Najmeddine [mailto:mnajmeddine at geo.census.gov]
Sent: Monday, January 29, 2001 10:59 AM
To: Chris Gonnerman
Subject: RE: cgi


Hello,
I have run the script from the command line and it works.
I have add the -u option to the registry and restarted the PC but I still
get the same error message. I should mention that I'm running on windows
2000 PRO.
I configured the Personal WebServer (PWS) according to the instructions
given at http://starship.python.net/crew/aaron_watters/pws.html
The /cgi-bin in inetpub/wwwroot/ dir is setup as "execute".

Attached are the scripts and the ouput.
Thanks,
MED.

-----Original Message-----
From: python-list-admin at python.org
[mailto:python-list-admin at python.org]On Behalf Of Chris Gonnerman
Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2001 10:11 AM
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: Re: cgi


----- Original Message -----
From: "Mohamed Najmeddine" <mnajmeddine at geo.census.gov>
> I have configured the IIS to run a simple cgi script named hello.cgi and
put
> the script on the dir c:/inetpub/wwwroot/cgi-bin/. The script is as
follows:
>
> print "Content-Type: text/html\n\n"
> print "Hello Python"
>
> and I got the following error message:
>
> CGI Error
> The specified CGI application misbehaved by not returning a complete set
of
> HTTP headers. The headers it did return are:
>
> syntax error at c:\inetpub\wwwroot\cgi-bin\hello.cgi line 4, near "print"
> Execution of c:\inetpub\wwwroot\cgi-bin\hello.cgi aborted due to
compilation
> errors.

Try to run the script directly from Python like so:

    python hello.cgi

You have a syntax error in the script.  I can't see an error in the sample
you posted, but there must be one there.

Also, regarding the registry setup for Python, using the -u (unbuffered)
option is sometimes necessary:

    "C:\python\python.exe -u %s %s"



--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list




From quinn at euro.ugcs.caltech.edu  Fri Jan 12 02:18:35 2001
From: quinn at euro.ugcs.caltech.edu (Quinn Dunkan)
Date: 12 Jan 2001 07:18:35 GMT
Subject: pattern matching in python
Message-ID: <slrn95tbua.h32.quinn@euro.ugcs.caltech.edu>

Every once in a while, I remember that python does basic tuple
pattern-matching, which doesn't seem to come up much in the documentation,
except for things like 'a, b = f()'.  Specifically, nested matching, like:

t = [ (1, (2, 3), 4), ]
for (a, (x, y), b) in t: ...

I recently noticed, that, of course,

def f(a, (x, y), b): ...

works too.  Is this standard, documented behaviour that can be relied on?

ok-so-where's-the-cons-operator-ly y'rs


From andrefor at axionet.com  Tue Jan 30 01:11:53 2001
From: andrefor at axionet.com (Andre Fortin)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 22:11:53 -0800
Subject: How to call a class method from a string representing a class name
References: <3A745F5E.5F035F1D@axionet.com> <951p2j0e8@news2.newsguy.com> <3A74E327.C02A86FC@axionet.com> <953uge0vkg@news2.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <3A765B29.6CDD5DD7@axionet.com>

Alex Martelli wrote:
[snip]


> > import sys
> > import test
> >
> > className = 'test'
> 
> Why call 'className' what is actually the name of a
> MODULE, *NOT* of a class?  Seems confusing.  Or, may
> the name be of _something else_ than a module...?

The confusion comes from the fact that the module 'test' contains a
class named 'test'. What matters here is really that the 'test' module
has been imported in the current namespace.

 
> If you KNOW it's a module (not "just any object
> whatsoever") then I guess indexing into sys.modules
> is OK. But, IS this part of the specs?  I saw you
> originally specify that you were naming *an object
> in the current global namespace*, and sys.modules
> does not check that -- if any OTHER module has ever
> imported one named 'test', then the entry WILL be
> in sys.modules, even if 'THIS module here' has never
> heard about it.  So, you're implementing pretty
> different specs -- "modules only" as opposed to
> any object, "ever imported anywhere" as opposed to
> "in the current global namespace"

This is a problem. Here is the semantic I'm trying to achieve:


If 'THIS module here' has heard of a module named 'test'
	call test.myFunc, which must exist according to the specs
	if test.myFunc returns false,
		 instantiate test.test and use it for further processing


Hmmm. It looks like the sys.modules is not what I'm looking for. You are
suggesting

> callable = eval(test+'.myFunc')
 
which is likely to be more costly compared to what I started with e.g.

try:
    myObj = globals()[className]
    apply(vars(myObj)['myFunc'], ('Some text',))
except KeyError:
    pass


Are we back to the beginning ?


-- 

Andre


From gry at ll.mit.edu  Thu Jan 11 11:05:03 2001
From: gry at ll.mit.edu (George Young)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 11:05:03 -0500
Subject: init-once class 'static' data
Message-ID: <3A5DD9AF.AB1C3DA6@ll.mit.edu>

I seem to often need a class to initialize a piece of it's data
the first time that class is instantiated.  Examples might be a database
connection, a loading a pixmap, loading and parsing a datafile which
data will normally be accessed as a directory member of the class...

I'd rather the data not initialize on module load, because in some cases
the data may never be used.

I've been using an idiom I copied once from someone, but it seems
pretty kludgy, I'm hoping someone will point out a better way:

class foo:
	data = None
	def __init__(self, data=data):
		if data:
			self.data = data
		else:
			self.data = (some expensive operation)

-- George

-- 
Your mouse has moved.
Windows NT must be restarted for the change to take effect.
Reboot now?  [OK]


From ndev42 at yahoo.com  Wed Jan 10 12:56:05 2001
From: ndev42 at yahoo.com (ndev42 at yahoo.com)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 17:56:05 GMT
Subject: boolean xor
References: <93ace8$nmo$1@panix3.panix.com>
Message-ID: <93i7ne$5dk$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

> I need a boolean (not bit-wise) xor function.  I've got the following
> function, but my logic skills are rusty enough that I'm wondering if
> this is the "right" way to do it (I've validated that it produces the
> correct outputs, at least):
>
> def xor(a,b):
>     return not ( (a and b) or (not (a or b)) )

A boolean xor is a detector of differences. Knowing that, you can
simply write:

def xor(a,b):
	return not(a==b)

Hope it helps,
--
Nicolas


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From andreasp at qbcon.com  Tue Jan 23 08:19:05 2001
From: andreasp at qbcon.com (Andreas Pauley)
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 15:19:05 +0200
Subject: Determining Content-Type
References: <mailman.980253266.31034.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3A6D84C9.D9B4F82C@qbcon.com>

Oleg Broytmann wrote:
 
>    You cannot determine - you can only guess. For good guess, use
> mimetypes.py from standard library.

Thanks, this is exactly what I needed. I guess I should have looked just
a little further than mimetools and I would have found it myself.

Just for interest sake, I'm using your extract_mime module to rip
attachments from email before inserting it into the database. Very
useful piece of software.

Andreas.
-- 
... Any resemblance between the above views and those of my employer,
my terminal, or the view out my window are purely coincidental.  Any
resemblance between the above and my own views is non-deterministic. 
The
question of the existence of views in the absence of anyone to hold them
is left as an exercise for the reader.  The question of the existence of
the reader is left as an exercise for the second god coefficient.  (A
discussion of non-orthogonal, non-integral polytheism is beyond the
scope
of this article.)


From not.this at seebelow.org  Tue Jan 30 22:16:01 2001
From: not.this at seebelow.org (Grant Griffin)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 21:16:01 -0600
Subject: curly-brace-aphobic?
References: <3A74EBD6.3C87FD15@seebelow.org> <slrn97a9fu.7sf.clgonsal@keeshah.penguinpowered.com> <slrn97bicg.8va.quinn@bolivar.ugcs.caltech.edu> <VQld6.131650$ge4.48028897@news2.rdc2.tx.home.com> <mailman.980847277.5756.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3A778371.DE70B28@seebelow.org>

Thomas Wouters wrote:
> 
> On Mon, Jan 29, 2001 at 10:07:49PM +0000, Rainer Deyke wrote:
> 
> > None of these is really a compelling reason for using '[]' instead of '()'
> > for access.
> 
> I think the central misconception here is that you seem to think Guido made
> a concious decision about everything he did in Python. I think Python uses
> [] for all indexing operations, and not some other character, because Guido
> thought it made sense. And you know what ? So do I, and a lot of other
> people. I *especially* like the way indexing is handled the same way for all
> container types, because that makes the language consistent, and doesn't
> leave you with a feeling of "what do I do when I have a class/extention type
> that is neither a dict nor a list, and I want to index it?" :)
> 
> Other than that, I doubt Guido thought much about what to use for indexing.
> He probably also didn't think much of using ()'s for all function-alike
> calls -- builtin functions, Python functions, methods on builtin types,
> methods on Python types, class instantiation, Python classes pretending to
> be functions. Not everything has a concious reason, Guido just made the
> right decisions automatically :)
> 
> I'm-an-atheist-so-I'll-call-it-'coincidence'-ly y'rs,

Good points.

I'm sure that Guido does it more often and more consistently, but on
some of my very best days, I, too, sometimes deliberately choose the
right design without knowing exactly why.

but-let's-just-call-it-a-'zen'-thing-<wink>-ly y'rs,

=g2
-- 
_____________________________________________________________________

Grant R. Griffin                                       g2 at dspguru.com
Publisher of dspGuru                           http://www.dspguru.com
Iowegian International Corporation            http://www.iowegian.com


From tblin at my-deja.com  Wed Jan  3 02:35:21 2001
From: tblin at my-deja.com (TB)
Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 07:35:21 GMT
Subject: HELP! win32com, COM, Invoke problem
References: <92rv3q$asi$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <3A51EDBF.3000808@ActiveState.com> <92tmjr$oj1$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <3A5274F3.3070001@ActiveState.com>
Message-ID: <92uknp$g6t$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

I figured it out! Not really, I did it by cheating.

I found that GetTypeInfo on Session is not implemented, ( and things
went by going through the dynamic.Dispatch route), so I hard coded the
CLSID of Session in one .py generated by makepy. something like,
resultCLSID = pythoncom.MakeIID('{E8000132-8693-11D0-B8B1-
080009B6AB17}')
if ret is not None: ret = win32com.client.Dispatch
(ret, 'CreateSession', resultCLSID, UnicodeToString=0)

that caused Python to load the another .py (for the OCX) to be loaded
and used, and things works correctly now.

Still confused though, how could JScript got it right?

Another question, I found the python version of the script is quite a
bit slower than the JScript counterpart, so I ran the profiler, and
some output is like:
Tue Jan 02 23:19:23 2001    test1.prof

         747 function calls (745 primitive calls) in 16.042 CPU seconds

   Ordered by: internal time
   List reduced from 372 to 20 due to restriction <20>

   ncalls  tottime  percall  cumtime  percall filename:lineno(function)
        3    6.325    2.108   10.984    3.661 gencache.py:453
(_GetModule)
        1    2.948    2.948    8.492    8.492 E8000035-8693-11D0-B8B1-
080009B6AB17x0x1x0.py:28(CreateSession)
        1    1.386    1.386    1.386    1.386 72C8450A-A860-11D4-86DC-
0000B45B2F12x0x1x4.py:417(Start)
      3/1    0.208    0.069   16.040   16.040 <string>:1(?)
        1    0.126    0.126    2.111    2.111 E8200035-8693-11D0-B8B1-
080009B6AB17x0x1x4.py:5(?)
        1    0.121    0.121    2.544    2.544 72C8450A-A860-11D4-86DC-
0000B45B2F12x0x1x4.py:5(?)
        1    0.100    0.100    0.100    0.100 E8200035-8693-11D0-B8B1-
080009B6AB17x0x1x4.py:8528(ICSubCase)
        1    0.090    0.090    0.090    0.090 E8200035-8693-11D0-B8B1-
080009B6AB17x0x1x4.py:950(ICCase)
        1    0.077    0.077    0.077    0.077 E8200035-8693-11D0-B8B1-
080009B6AB17x0x1x4.py:5075(ICOEQuote)
        1    0.077    0.077    0.077    0.077 E8200035-8693-11D0-B8B1-
080009B6AB17x0x1x4.py:4783(ICOELineItem)

Interestingly, the _GetModule in gencache.py is the hotspot. the module
def is like:
def _GetModule(fname):
	mod = __import__("win32com.gen_py.%s" % fname)
	return getattr( getattr(mod, "gen_py"), fname)

looks like it needs to import a py file generated by makepy, in my case
a 460K (680K compiled) file, quite a big one. Is it the 'import' slower
or the 'getattr' slower?

--TB

In article <3A5274F3.3070001 at ActiveState.com>,
  Mark Hammond <MarkH at ActiveState.com> wrote:
> TB wrote:
>
> > Mark, thanks for your quick reply.
> >
> > I did notice that if you I take out the parens, this statement will
> > work, but when it bombs at the next statement:
> >
> > bo = form.CreateBO("Clarify.CBO.Generic")
> > the error message is
> ...
>
> >     ret = self._oleobj_.Invoke
> > (retEntry.dispid,0,pythoncom.DISPATCH_PROPERTYGET,1)
> > com_error: (-2147352567, 'Exception occurred.',
> > (0, 'Form.CreateBO', 'Invalid class string\015\012', None, 0, -
> > 2146827287), None)
>
> The COM object is returing this error.  It appears that it expects
> "Clarify.CBO.Generic" to be registered as a class in your registry.
>
> > the exception is thrown at the same Invoke line in dynamic.py. This
> > time CreateBO requires one parameter, but when it's called with
Invoke
> > (...DISPATCH_PROPERTYGET,1), it didn't thrown an exception of
> > BADCONTEXT, but it threw a 'Invalid class string', is it a bug in
the
> > control I'm using?
>
> It looks like the control is purposely throwing this error.
>
> > As for Makepy, I tried before but it didn't help. Let me make it
more
> > clearly. The Clarify.CBO.App.1 sits in a DLL called BOCLIENT.DLL,
but
> > all other stuff, session, FormContext etc sits in another DLL called
> > AXCOMMON.OCX. After I ran makepy on both files, I saw 2 py files
> > created, but when I step through the program I found it only used
the
> > 1st py file, not the 2nd one, which contains FormContext and etc. I
> > don't know COM so I can't explain why. Could you explain a little
bit?
>
> You may have trouble with an OCX.  Python doesn't really support
them.
> Pythonwin does to some degree - check out pywin\demos\ocx.
>
> Re makepy:  Each COM object has a method "GetTypeInfo()".  If this
> method works and provides the CLSID of the object, then the makepy
> system can locate and load the correct module.  This is the basis of
how
> makepy works.  However, in some cases, even though makepy has been
run,
> the COM object does not report its CLSID.  In this case, Python is
> unable to load it.
>
> However, in no case is the entire set of makepy generated files
loaded -
> so you wont see a makepy generated file loaded until a COM object it
> describes is first used.
>
> Mark.
>
>

--
--TB


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From smibr at my-deja.com  Wed Jan 24 12:10:52 2001
From: smibr at my-deja.com (smibr at my-deja.com)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 17:10:52 GMT
Subject: PIL Example
References: <94km7t$caq$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <oilb6.8447$AH6.1364119@newsc.telia.net> <94lmm5$98n$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <vtvb6.8993$Qb7.1272936@newsb.telia.net>
Message-ID: <94n2ah$des$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

Thanks. As a newbie, it's the subtleties that always do me in. It makes
a lot more sense to pass all the coordinates as a tuple. Not only that,
it works much better.


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From ullrich at math.okstate.edu  Sat Jan  6 10:09:33 2001
From: ullrich at math.okstate.edu (David C. Ullrich)
Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2001 15:09:33 GMT
Subject: Migrating to perl?
References: <3Fa56.4580$of7.216286@news1.atl> <933fa1$j2i$1@newshost.accu.uu.nl> <ggd56.4652$of7.222552@news1.atl>
Message-ID: <3a57342f.92981493@nntp.sprynet.com>

On Fri, 5 Jan 2001 00:47:32 -0500, "Joel Ricker"
<joejava at dragonat.net> wrote:

[...]
>
>I've mentioned before that I'm real new to OO.  How should I approach it in
>Python?  Has anyone learned OO just from Python?  Or should I study OO
>theory else where and then apply it to Python? 

You should do what Tim said: Download it and work through the 
tutorial. Really will take less time than reading this thread.

The docs are excellent. But they omit a few important
principles. Like "always believe Tim".

DU



From kno at jtan.com  Sun Jan 14 03:34:36 2001
From: kno at jtan.com (Matt Dunford)
Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 08:34:36 GMT
Subject: A small suggestion for Python
References: <3A5F27F7.30268D9A@erols.com> <G74HuE.AGn.0.sinope@news.jtan.com> <93qpbc02n4a@news1.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <G7595o.HKE.0.sinope@news.jtan.com>

"Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com> writes:

>"Matt Dunford" <kno at jtan.com> wrote in message
>news:G74HuE.AGn.0.sinope at news.jtan.com...
>    [snip]
>> Although, I wouldn't mind having a builtin method that returns a sorted
>> array.  Then we could do something like this:
>>
>> dict = { 'this' : 1, 'that' : 2 }
>> for key in dict.keys().sort():
>> print key

>And instead we have to do

>    for key in return_sorted(dict.keys()):
>        print key

>Is it that much of a problem...?  return_sorted's pretty trivial too:

>def return_sorted(alist):
>    alist.sort()
>    return alist


I have no problem with it.  But just to be pendantic, your return_sorted def 
doesn't do what I'm trying to get at.  I'm thinking more along the lines of

def return_sorted(alist):
    import copy
    sorted = copy.copy(alist)
    sorted.sort()
    return sorted
--


From loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de  Fri Jan 19 08:09:03 2001
From: loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de (Martin von Loewis)
Date: 19 Jan 2001 14:09:03 +0100
Subject: adding the XML to 2.0 to be a mistake?
References: <mailman.979611383.15529.python-list@python.org> <3d8zocuqrd.fsf@kronos.cnri.reston.va.us>
Message-ID: <p6q66jb8z9s.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Andrew Kuchling <akuchlin at mems-exchange.org> writes:

> Duplicating complex code in two different projects, so that they have
> to be kept in sync manually at the cost of time and effort, is the
> mistake.  

It would be a problem if nobody was willing to keep the two files in
sync. However, I've synchronized the two a number of times in the past
few months; using CVS, this is not a big deal to me. There was only
one critical overlap, when two people independently contributed a
normalize() method. As it turned out, neither implementation was
correct initially, so we could merge the best ideas of either
approach.

> Another one is tying a fast-moving project such as PyXML to
> the slower releases of Python; Python 2.0 was released on October 16,
> and there have been two PyXML releases (0.6.2 and 0.6.3) since then.

Why is that a mistake? My main goal for releasing so many releases of
PyXML was to find out problems in the Python 2.0 xml code, so that
Python will get improved versions.

I believe I would not have found the pyexpat memory leaks if I hadn't
released versions that did fix some leaks, after which people would
come up with examples where additional leaks show up.

Regards,
Martin


From ullrich at math.okstate.edu  Mon Jan 29 10:00:01 2001
From: ullrich at math.okstate.edu (David C. Ullrich)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 15:00:01 GMT
Subject: Anyone get python on win98??
References: <WXZc6.8032$KP3.2632221@news3.rdc1.on.home.com> <Sd_c6.15114$fe1.211288@news20.bellglobal.com> <fY1d6.9581$KP3.3115447@news3.rdc1.on.home.com>
Message-ID: <3a758439.3800225@nntp.sprynet.com>

On Sun, 28 Jan 2001 23:30:19 GMT, "shaka" <fabrice.n at home.com> wrote:

As has been pointed out, that's the system command line, not
the Python interpreter "command line".

You can also execute your scripts directly from, say,
Windows Explorer. There's a bit of uncertainty below
because I don't recall how much of my setup was
installed by Python and how much by me. Do this:

Start Windows Explorer. Find a .py file. Double-click
on it. It may happen that it simply runs for you - if
so great. If not then you'll get that "Open With" dialog.
Hit the Browse button and find python.exe - it's
probably something like 

Program Files\Python\python.exe.

>
>It just doesn't work: it gives me an error message like:
>
>File "<stdin>", line 1
>    c:\programming\python20>python hello.py
>     ^
>SyntaxError: invalid syntax
>
>so what do I do???
>
>
>
>> From the command line type:
>>
>> C:\programming\python20> python script.py
>>
>> --
>> <==================================>
>> Bryan Mongeau
>> Lead Developer, Director
>> eEvolved Real-Time Technologies Inc.
>> www.eevolved.com
>> <==================================>
>>
>> "No, this trick won't work...How on earth are you ever going to explain in
>> terms of chemistry and physics so important a biological phenomenon as
>> first love?"-- Einstein
>>
>
>



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Wed Jan 10 06:13:39 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 12:13:39 +0100
Subject: mxTools (was Re: why no "do : until"?)
References: <Iw5jLKALa0W6Ewjq@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk><Pine.LNX.4.30.0101092015010.5204-100000@fep132.fep.ru> <mailman.979066090.17094.python-list@python.org> <t5nenubrrjou21@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <93hg7g0146u@news2.newsguy.com>

"Jason Cunliffe" <jasonic at nomadicsltd.com> wrote in message
news:t5nenubrrjou21 at corp.supernews.com...
    [snip]
> needs mxDateTime(). Any use concerning people and not machine prblems,
> including even basics like date of birth. Anyone over the age of 30+ is
out
> luck. Let's see that is maybe 2-3 billion people?

Gives a new lease of life to the old slogan "never trust anybody
over thirty", right?-)


Alex





From jafo at tummy.com  Sun Jan 21 01:44:36 2001
From: jafo at tummy.com (Sean Reifschneider)
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 23:44:36 -0700
Subject: Python for 8086???
In-Reply-To: <007301c08236$b2771f50$f05aa8c0@lslp7o.int.lsl.co.uk>; from tony@lsl.co.uk on Fri, Jan 19, 2001 at 04:41:39PM -0000
References: <007301c08236$b2771f50$f05aa8c0@lslp7o.int.lsl.co.uk>
Message-ID: <20010120234436.C20336@tummy.com>

On Fri, Jan 19, 2001 at 04:41:39PM -0000, Tony J Ibbs (Tibs) wrote:
>	http://www.computer-guru.com/diskless.html
>for a description - basically it's 8086 based, floppy but no hard disk,
>some "hard RAM" to work in, decent keyboard, crap screen), which I'm
>using until (one day, hah) we can afford a "real" laptop.

There's the Python port to the Palm Pilot.  That might be a good place
to start...  Don't know how small your box is, but the Pilot is a
68000 kind of CPU with 8MB RAM.  I was shown a copy of it at a recent
LUG meeting, and it doesn't look too bad, but is still missing some
things (floats? forms).

Try:

	http://www.google.com/search?q=python+palm

Sorry I can't give you more advice, my palmtop has a 300MHz CPU, 200MB
of RAM, and a 20GB drive.  ;-)

Sean
-- 
 Obutse: Not pointed or acute. Exceeding 90 degrees but less than 180 degrees.
 OOOooh!  Rounded at the free end.  Dull...  Hey!  That's an insult!  -- WKRP
Sean Reifschneider, Inimitably Superfluous <jafo at tummy.com>
tummy.com - Linux Consulting since 1995. Qmail, KRUD, Firewalls, Python



From grante at visi.com  Fri Jan 19 14:50:34 2001
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 19:50:34 GMT
Subject: Why no isexec, isread, iswrite, etc (was: I must be missing something obvious: os.path.isexecutable?)
References: <slrn96enju.g1v.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <slrn96ep7c.g1v.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <slrn96erlf.h11.grey@teleute.rpglink.com>
Message-ID: <eU0a6.744$eI2.252354@ruti.visi.com>

In article <slrn96erlf.h11.grey at teleute.rpglink.com>, Steve Lamb wrote:

>    then I foudn the above mentioned conversation with the macros from stat
>coming into play.  So I dug into os.path.py, bounced into posixpath.py, and
>see that isdir, isfile and islink use the stat macros.  So why not complete
>the suite of tests possible from the stat macros and have read/write/exec
>tests in there as well?

One answer: 

You are checking something for readibility because you want to
try to read it.  Just go ahead and try to open and read it.  If
it's not readable you'll get an exception telling you so.

Since the file may be deleted, moved, or its protection bits
changed between the stat() call and the open(), you have to be
prepared to handle error returns from the open() call.  That
said, it's a waste of effort to check to see if it is readable.

[Same answer if you're going to try to write or exec a file.]

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  You should all JUMP
                                  at               UP AND DOWN for TWO HOURS
                               visi.com            while I decide on a NEW
                                                   CAREER!!


From erwin at andreasen.com  Mon Jan  1 08:21:29 2001
From: erwin at andreasen.com (Erwin S. Andreasen)
Date: 1 Jan 2001 13:21:29 GMT
Subject: Bug? in os.chown()
References: <3A4FC0DD.530F90E6@ev1.net>
Message-ID: <92q08p$1doj$1@news.cybercity.dk>

On Sun, 31 Dec 2000 17:27:25 -0600, David Lambert wrote:
>I am running Python 2.0 on Mandrake Linux 7.2 and have come across an
>apparent anomaly with os.chown(). Running a process as root, I can
>change any file's ownerships apart from symbolic links. No error is
>given, but the ownership refuses to be changed. Is this a feature or a
>bug? How do I change a symbolic link's owner and group?

Just about any operation on a symbolic link (i.e. open, chdir etc. but not
unlink) will act on the file linked to instead. So you are really changing the
permission on the target file. (Note, however, that while the system call
chown follows the link, the GNU chown program does NOT follow the link and
changes the owner of the link -- at least with 4.0.35 version of fileutils).

There are a number of l* system calls that act on the link rather than the
thing being linked to (lstat, lchown). However, Python doesn't implement
lchown yet (at least not in Python 2.0b1).

So, I suppose you could use system() to run GNU chown on the file (you could
give it the --no-dereference flag to be sure, see man 1 chown) -- it's only
necessary to do it when the target is a symbolic link (you can check using
os.path.islink). Not a very portable solution though.

PS: Ownership of symbolic links isn't very useful though (see man symlink).

-- 
=======================================================================
<erwin at andreasen.com>           Herlev, Denmark       Software Designer
<URL:http://www.andreasen.org/>       <*>         LASAT^WEicon Networks
=======================================================================


From phd at phd.pp.ru  Tue Jan 23 11:07:40 2001
From: phd at phd.pp.ru (Oleg Broytmann)
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 19:07:40 +0300 (MSK)
Subject: Fw: WhatamI doing wrong ? (re: About Content-Transfer-Encoding)
In-Reply-To: <02a301c08554$fe4a4080$020000c3@node02>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0101231906570.11674-100000@fep132.fep.ru>

On Tue, 23 Jan 2001, Dhirja Gangopadhyay wrote:
> Could I be I going wrong because I am encoding string by string rather than
> the whole file at once ? (That does create a problem, though - how do I

   Perhaps.

> convert all the lists I write to the body into a file first !)

   Use StringIO to collect data.

Oleg.
----
     Oleg Broytmann            http://phd.pp.ru/            phd at phd.pp.ru
           Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN.




From doerwalter at my-deja.com  Fri Jan 26 12:52:45 2001
From: doerwalter at my-deja.com (Walter Dörwald)
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 17:52:45 GMT
Subject: Simple HTML template modules?
References: <3A711877.4C5B51AF@mail.com> <94rev7$ol4$1@readme.inode.at>
Message-ID: <94sdh7$36n$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

In article <94rev7$ol4$1 at readme.inode.at>,
  Albert Brandl <albert.brandl at lindeverlag.at> wrote:

> Rayed Al-Rashed wrote:
> > I am trying to build CGI programs using Python, and I searched for
> > simple HTML templates modules but couldn't find any ... any ideas
> > where I can find such module.
>
> You should have a look at HTMLgen. This module provides a class
> called TemplateDocument which can be used like this:
>
> #! /usr/local/bin/python
> # somescript.cgi
>
> import HTMLgen
>
> doc = HTMLgen.TemplateDocument("template1.html")
> doc.substitutions = {"id": "55", "age": "17", "name": "Peter"}
> print "content-type: text/html"
> print
> print str(doc)
> #----------------------------------------
>
> template1.html could e.g. be the following file:
>
> <!-- template for use with HTMLgen.TemplateDocument -->
> <!-- each variable contained in {...} is replaced with the -->
> <!-- corresponding value in doc.substitutions -->
>
> <html>
>         <body>
>         <table>
>                 <tr>
>                         <td>ID</td>
>                         <td>{id}</td>
>                 </tr>
>                 <tr>
>                         <td>User</td>
>                         <td>{name}</td>
>                 </tr>
>                         <td>Age</td>
>                         <td>{age}</td>
>                 </tr>
>
>         </table>
>         </body>
> </html>
>
> [...]

Alternatively you might have a look at XIST (available from
ftp://titan.bnbt.de/pub/livinglogic/xist/), where Alberts example
looks like this:

from xist import html

id = 55
age = 17
name = "peter"

e = html.html(
   html.body(
      html.table(
         html.tr(html.td("ID"), html.td(id)),
         html.tr(html.td("User"), html.td(name)),
         html.tr(html.td("Age"), html.td(age))
     )
   )
)

print "Content-Type: text/html\n"
print e.asBytes(encoding="ascii")

XIST is XML based and is made to be easily extensible
with new functionality. (But note that I'm biased,
as I wrote XIST)

Bye,
   Walter D?rwald


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From ltonin at my-deja.com  Wed Jan 17 11:52:27 2001
From: ltonin at my-deja.com (ltonin at my-deja.com)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 16:52:27 GMT
Subject: urgent help required
Message-ID: <944ik7$4m4$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

well, when i try to load an image using python|
PIL  under zope, i received the following error
mesg:

Error Type: IOError
Error Value: [Errno 20] Not a
directory: "MyImage.jpg/"

i know it isn't a directory!!! it s an image!!!

what's the mess ??????
does anybody know why??
plz help......

Thanks by advance



Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From dan.rolander at marriott.com  Fri Jan 19 04:50:11 2001
From: dan.rolander at marriott.com (Dan Rolander)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 04:50:11 -0500
Subject: How to run script from interpreter?
References: <mailman.979855413.16209.python-list@python.org> <t6f37pmhbtd94@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <00ef01c081fd$375c2ab0$11260340@yin>

This doesn't work for me. I know how to import and how to use the if
__name__ trick, but how can I execute a script from the interactive Python
interpreter? That is, can I load a script and have it run from inside the
interpreter? (I'm sure this is easy I'm just not seeing it.)

Dan

----- Original Message -----
From: "JustinHJ" <justinhj at hotmail.com>
Newsgroups: comp.lang.python
To: <python-list at python.org>
Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2001 7:37 PM
Subject: Re: How to run script from interpreter?


> say you have a script in a file called test.py just type
>
> import test
>
> (you don't need the .py)
>
> As for doing stuff in the script it will execute any commands it
encounters.
> It's neat to have all your stuff in functions and then have commands at
the
> bottom to call the functions as needed. This is like a simulated main()
from
> C.
>
> if __name__ == '__main__': # only run if main program
>  DoStuff( )
>
>
> Rolander, Dan <Dan.Rolander at marriott.com> wrote in message
> news:mailman.979855413.16209.python-list at python.org...
> > What is the best way to run a python script from within the interpreter?
> > What command should I use?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Dan
> >
>
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>




From aahz at panix.com  Wed Jan 24 13:12:40 2001
From: aahz at panix.com (Aahz Maruch)
Date: 24 Jan 2001 10:12:40 -0800
Subject: Thread interruption
References: <XCtb6.9449$CP4.2365402@typhoon2.ba-dsg.net>
Message-ID: <94n5uo$i8q$1@panix6.panix.com>

In article <XCtb6.9449$CP4.2365402 at typhoon2.ba-dsg.net>,
David Allen <s2mdalle at titan.vcu.edu> wrote:
>
>On a completely unrelated note, I thought python threading was done
>within one process, and that the threading code had to deal with
>"timeslicing" between all the threads that actually belonged to one
>process.  But checking the output of 'ps' on running a threaded python
>program, actually 4-5 instances of the interpreter seem to be running
>when I'm using threads.  What gives?

I see Donn answered most of your question.  For this one, my
understanding is that Linux implements threads as multiple processes
sharing the same memory space.  So threads do show up in ps.
-- 
                      --- Aahz (Copyright 2001 by aahz at pobox.com)

Androgynous poly kinky vanilla queer het    <*>     http://www.rahul.net/aahz/
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6

'I'm not in the mood to say "yes" today.' --SJM


From scarblac at pino.selwerd.nl  Sat Jan 13 19:26:14 2001
From: scarblac at pino.selwerd.nl (Remco Gerlich)
Date: 14 Jan 2001 00:26:14 GMT
Subject: Strange variable scope... is this right?
References: <gcqp39.jkk.ln@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <slrn961s97.buo.scarblac@pino.selwerd.nl>

gradha at iname.com <gradha at iname.com> wrote in comp.lang.python:
> In another attempt to DTW (Dominate The World), I wrote an obfuscated loop
> just to see the scope behaviour of Python:
> 
> f = ["row", "cow", "arrow"]
> for f in f:
> 	print f
> 	for f in range (len (f)):
> 		print f

When 'for f in f:' evaluates, the expression after 'in ' is evaluated,
and it results in the list. The for loop stores a reference to the list,
and sets f to the first element. In later iterations, the for loop still
remembers the list but otherwise it is gone.

After the loop, f points to the last thing it was set to (4, probably, from
the second loop). The list is gone.

-- 
Remco Gerlich


From boud at rempt.xs4all.nl  Fri Jan  5 06:08:01 2001
From: boud at rempt.xs4all.nl (Boudewijn Rempt)
Date: 5 Jan 2001 11:08:01 GMT
Subject: MySQL with Windows
References: <yJd56.9184$KY1.25399@news1.rivrw1.nsw.optushome.com.au>
Message-ID: <9349uh$h3i$1@news1.xs4all.nl>

deadmeat <root@[127.0.0.1]> wrote:
> Is there anywhere I can download pre-compiled MySQL modules with no
> dependencies? MySQLdb seems to need MSVC..

Well, Andy links to http://home.t-online.de/home/err666/ from his
MySQLdb pages, and I've tested this for Kura, and it works. And I
don't have Visual C++ (which is a pity, since I urgently need to
recompile Qt and PyQt for Windows to include Unicode support).

-- 

Boudewijn Rempt  | http://www.valdyas.org


From tim.one at home.com  Sat Jan 20 00:10:23 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 00:10:23 -0500
Subject: BeOpen 2.0 vs ActiveState?
In-Reply-To: <slrn96hpq1.1qg.tim@degree.ath.cx>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCOEPIIJAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Paul Prescod, Coporate Apologist <wink>]
> If we couldn't justify the development and maintenance cost of
> ActivePython in these two ways then we couldn't continue to
> develop it!

[Tim Hammerquist]
> And yet Python and Perl were both created and developed for years
> without license restrictions.  Why does it cost so much more for your
> company to slap its name on someone else's creation than it does for
> someone to develop it from scratch in the first place?

I'd say it's the obvious reason:  ActiveState is paying salaries here, while
Guido and Larry Wall did not; i.e., something is much more expensive than
nothing.  It's not that ActiveState merely "slaps its name" on Python,
either:  at least their Windows installer is much slicker than the one I
maintain for PythonLabs (which latter is still using a creaky old version of
the Wise installer developed for Windows 3.1!); they're funding Komodo
development (which may or may not prove slick enough to get Guido to give up
on IDLE); AS's Trent Mick did virtually all of the exceedingly irritating
work to port Python to Win64 (and contributed it back to the core); and so
on.  The kinds of work they're doing aren't being done for free by anyone.

> I apologize to the group for this post.  It is a personal objection to
> ActiveState's business practices, etc., and has no place in
> comp.lang.python.

Actually, it's more on-topic than the threads I usually jump into <wink>.
PythonLabs will continue to ship core Python free of encumbrance or charge.
But as more specialized markets demand more tailoring to their unique needs,
volunteers become scarcer, and the few of us who do get paid to work on the
core now are spread too thin already anyway.  ActiveState apparently sees a
market opportunity in the gaps PythonLabs (along with all the SourceForge
volunteers) necessarily leave unfilled -- if they can succeed at that, more
power to them!

I personally use the straight PythonLabs release.  But then I'm not a
businessman in Topeka looking for ecommerce-in-a-box either.

food-doesn't-grow-on-trees<wink>-ly y'rs  - tim




From nicrayner at hotmail.com  Mon Jan  8 07:50:26 2001
From: nicrayner at hotmail.com (Nick Rayner)
Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2001 12:50:26 -0000
Subject: ok
Message-ID: <LAW2-F59p8ARf3sllNY0000c8f0@hotmail.com>

confirm 438765
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.




From weiming at cnri.reston.va.us  Thu Jan 18 17:17:19 2001
From: weiming at cnri.reston.va.us (Weiming He)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 17:17:19 -0500
Subject: Help for DCOracle module on AIX UNIX
References: <dqM56.12004$rk1.331003@news.uswest.net>
Message-ID: <3A676B6F.520CCD27@cnri.reston.va.us>

Does anyone know how to compile and link DCOracle module on AIX UNIX?
Please pass me a hand, thanks in advance.

Weiming He



From objectway at divalsim.it  Fri Jan 26 09:24:41 2001
From: objectway at divalsim.it (Nicola Musatti)
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 15:24:41 +0100
Subject: xor operator?
References: <20010126125141.18593.qmail@nw128.netaddress.usa.net> <mailman.980517875.10931.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3A7188A9.1482CA3D@divalsim.it>


Thomas Wouters wrote:
> 
> On Fri, Jan 26, 2001 at 05:51:41AM -0700, Def P wrote:
> 
> > I notice that there doesn't seem to be a boolean xor operator in Python. Does
> > someone know the reasons behind this?
> 
> Very few languages have a boolean xor operation. I don't know any off the
> top of my head, but if I'd have to make a guess, I'd say that INTERCAL was
> the only language I'm famialiar with, with a boolean XOR operation :)
> 
> The simple reason is 'it isn't shortcuttable'. That is, with 'and' and 'or',
> whether or not to evaluate the second argument is based on the outcome of
> the first. xor requires you to always evaluate both. In the specific Python
> sense, the return value of the boolean xor operation would also be vague.

I'd say that a more plausible reason is that for boolean values 'xor' is
equivalent to '!='. Check the already mentioned recent thread for more
Pythonic alternatives.

Best regards,
Nicola Musatti


From SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk  Wed Jan 24 10:08:58 2001
From: SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk (Simon Brunning)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 15:08:58 -0000
Subject: Conspiracy Revealed
Message-ID: <31575A892FF6D1118F5800600846864D5B1761@intrepid>

> From:	claird at starbase.neosoft.com [SMTP:claird at starbase.neosoft.com]
> Incidentally, where's the PSA been relocated?
 
A small bunker in Area 51.

Cheers,
Simon Brunning
TriSystems Ltd.
sbrunning at trisystems.co.uk




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accept liability for statements made which are clearly the senders own.



From m.faassen at vet.uu.nl  Sat Jan 13 11:02:57 2001
From: m.faassen at vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen)
Date: 13 Jan 2001 16:02:57 GMT
Subject: Python language suggestion
References: <93l4ve$no3$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <mailman.979371682.8132.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <93pu7h$cem$2@newshost.accu.uu.nl>

Moshe Zadka <moshez at zadka.site.co.il> wrote:
> On Thu, 11 Jan 2001 20:27:39 GMT, Chris Ryland <cpr at emsoftware.com> wrote:
>> This migh sound radical, but has anyone ever entertained the idea that
>> foo.'bar bletch' might be a useful and logical extension of Python's
>> current attribute selection machinery?
>> 
>> I realize that foo['bar bletch'] is just as good for dictionary-like
>> objects, but foo.'bar bletch' 

> getattr(foo, 'bar bletch') works in Python.

Sure, but this could be syntactic sugar. Along the lines Python 2.0 now
has apply() but also the foo(a, *bar, **baz) invocation syntax.

Not that I'm actually advocating this. I'm just toying with the idea.

Regards,

Martijn
-- 
History of the 20th Century: WW1, WW2, WW3?
No, WWW -- Could we be going in the right direction?


From chris at voodooland.net  Tue Jan  9 21:39:00 2001
From: chris at voodooland.net (Chris Watson)
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 20:39:00 -0600 (CST)
Subject: book recommendation?
In-Reply-To: <93gg3l$nje$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.21.0101092036040.25333-100000@open-systems.net>

On Wed, 10 Jan 2001 lsloan00 at my-deja.com wrote:

> Okay, I'm being too picky.  Since nobody's given any
> suggestions, maybe my request should be:
> Please recommend a good Python book.

	I was in the same spot a few days ago. Last friday actually.
I finally settled on Python Essential Reference as the book to learn from.
It pretty much is what *I* was looking for. A newbie book. But mainly for
reference. Such as "hrmm what was the options and syntax for open()?"
A quick look at the book is great for that sort of thing. It is almost a
clone of the online tutorial but has better examples scattered about its
pages. You should cruise to the local bookstore and check it out first and
see what you think of it. I think it was the best book I could of
purchased as a newbie. It doesn't cover 2.0 but I am not finding that a
problem so far. Happy hacking!

--
=============================================================================
-Chris Watson         (316) 326-3862 | FreeBSD Consultant, FreeBSD Geek 
Work:              scanner at jurai.net | Open Systems Inc., Wellington, Kansas
Home:  scanner at deceptively.shady.org | http://open-systems.net
=============================================================================
WINDOWS: "Where do you want to go today?"
LINUX: "Where do you want to go tomorrow?"
BSD: "Are you guys coming or what?"
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irc.openprojects.net #FreeBSD -Join the revolution!
ICQ: 20016186




From moshez at zadka.site.co.il  Fri Jan  5 21:55:44 2001
From: moshez at zadka.site.co.il (Moshe Zadka)
Date: Sat,  6 Jan 2001 04:55:44 +0200 (IST)
Subject: Whose functions are realer (was: Migrating to perl?)
In-Reply-To: <356AB932B7198FB4.3EC0B75D519810CE.57FCF0BC6A8679C4@lp.airnews.net>
References: <356AB932B7198FB4.3EC0B75D519810CE.57FCF0BC6A8679C4@lp.airnews.net>, <V%c56.4648$of7.221797@news1.atl> <3Fa56.4580$of7.216286@news1.atl> <mailman.978670867.31055.python-list@python.org> <mailman.978711967.28730.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <20010106025544.CDEB2A84F@darjeeling.zadka.site.co.il>

On 5 Jan 2001, claird at starbase.neosoft.com (Cameron Laird) wrote:

> Do you not use rexec?

Never, in all my life.

> I can imagine there are historical reasons Perlites
> backtick rather freely, but I'll repeat:  to the
> best of my knowledge, it's not because Perl lacks
> for functions.

I don't know why, but it's certainly a motto of TomC, who writes
Perl books and Perl docos.

> You and I speak somewhat different Perls.

Maybe. But I don't think it's a weird dialect of Perl spoken in Israel <wink>.
TIMTOWDI, you know <5.6 wink>
-- 
Moshe Zadka <sig at zadka.site.co.il>
This is a signature anti-virus. 
Please stop the spread of signature viruses!



From moshez at zadka.site.co.il  Tue Jan 23 15:03:35 2001
From: moshez at zadka.site.co.il (Moshe Zadka)
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 22:03:35 +0200 (IST)
Subject: How do I know all thrown exceptions of a function?
In-Reply-To: <iEab6.8765$Qb7.1233360@newsb.telia.net>
References: <iEab6.8765$Qb7.1233360@newsb.telia.net>, <g3lb49.73s.ln@127.0.0.1> <94d93h$55d$1@troll.powertech.no> <mailman.980059223.25947.python-list@python.org> <Qeya6.7932$AH6.1260668@newsc.telia.net> <3A6B24F0.EA164698@gte.net> <94icr2$6kv$1@animus.fel.iae.nl> <3A6CDBDA.C3120F98@gte.net> <94ipci$afo$1@animus.fel.iae.nl> <3A6CFD8E.BD473DFD@gte.net>
Message-ID: <20010123200335.E9FA7A83E@darjeeling.zadka.site.co.il>

On Tue, 23 Jan 2001 07:45:18 GMT, "Fredrik Lundh" <fredrik at effbot.org> wrote:

> No, the rule is "don't ever use from-import if you don't know what
> you're doing".

I think we can safely generalize this rule to "don't do things unless
you understand the effects"...
-- 
Moshe Zadka <sig at zadka.site.co.il>
This is a signature anti-virus. 
Please stop the spread of signature viruses!
Fingerprint: 4BD1 7705 EEC0 260A 7F21  4817 C7FC A636 46D0 1BD6



From scarblac at pino.selwerd.nl  Thu Jan 11 08:47:57 2001
From: scarblac at pino.selwerd.nl (Remco Gerlich)
Date: 11 Jan 2001 13:47:57 GMT
Subject: Reflection: Calling Methods Dynamically by Name
References: <93jfur$9rj$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <slrn95re5j.838.scarblac@pino.selwerd.nl>

harrc at my-deja.com <harrc at my-deja.com> wrote in comp.lang.python:
> Does Python have the ability to call methods of a class by name?  For
> example, I have a string: "ProcessData" and the class MyClass has a
> method called ProcessData.  Is there a way I can do something like this:
> 
> mc = MyClass()
> str = "ProcessData"
> args = ("Data", 1, 3)

method = getattr(mc, str)
apply(method, args)

> This reflection-esque behavior would be very useful.  Any ideas?

Reflection and dynamic behavior are the things Python excels at.
You can do nearly anything.

-- 
Remco Gerlich


From fredrik at effbot.org  Sun Jan 28 04:40:22 2001
From: fredrik at effbot.org (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 09:40:22 GMT
Subject: os.path.normpath()
References: <3A6F4777.60A82F5B@wanadoo.fr> <H%Ib6.5231$oz1.72342@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com> <3A72D935.76775777@wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <aORc6.9327$AH6.1567377@newsc.telia.net>

Gawain Bolton wrote:
> I downloaded and compiled Python 2.0 for Sun and found that normpath() in
> Python 2.0 does not suffer from these problems!  Therefore, this must be in a
> bug Python 1.5 and 1.5.2 and probably earlier versions as well.

It's a bug in 2.0.  It'll be fixed in 2.1.

And it's not a problem -- this behaviour is required by the
POSIX standard.  Implementations are free to use this form
for e.g. host name prefixes, node numbers, etc.

Cheers /F




From db3l at fitlinxx.com  Fri Jan 19 00:29:44 2001
From: db3l at fitlinxx.com (David Bolen)
Date: 19 Jan 2001 00:29:44 -0500
Subject: Why no isexec, isread, iswrite, etc (was: I must be missing something obvious: os.path.isexecutable?)
References: <slrn96enju.g1v.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <slrn96ep7c.g1v.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <slrn96erlf.h11.grey@teleute.rpglink.com>
Message-ID: <uy9w89kjb.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com>

grey at despair.rpglink.com (Steve Lamb) writes:

>     then I foudn the above mentioned conversation with the macros from stat
> coming into play.  So I dug into os.path.py, bounced into posixpath.py, and
> see that isdir, isfile and islink use the stat macros.  So why not complete
> the suite of tests possible from the stat macros and have read/write/exec
> tests in there as well?

One possibility is that there's more than one answer to the question
of "isexec" - it's not a single bit, but one that can exist for all of
owner, group and world.  Thus, for example, Perl has both -x and -X to
deal with effective and real uid/gid, but even then the brief writeup
I found via perldoc doesn't get very descriptive of under precisely
what conditions they return true.  (E.g., what if it's only other
executable - is that covered by the "effective uid/gid" of -x?)

I'm sure it wouldn't be too terrible to spec out something that is
well-defined and augment the module.  But it's also not too much
effort to just stat the file (which is going to happen anyway) and
then apply the heuristic that you want in your particular situation.

(Clearly in this case, part of the question is precisely what is the
algorithm used by -x in Perl since you are trying to replicate its
behavior)

--
-- David
-- 
/-----------------------------------------------------------------------\
 \               David Bolen            \   E-mail: db3l at fitlinxx.com  /
  |             FitLinxx, Inc.            \  Phone: (203) 708-5192    |
 /  860 Canal Street, Stamford, CT  06902   \  Fax: (203) 316-5150     \
\-----------------------------------------------------------------------/


From joejava at dragonat.net  Fri Jan  5 19:12:06 2001
From: joejava at dragonat.net (Joel Ricker)
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 19:12:06 -0500
Subject: Whose functions are realer (was: Migrating to perl?)
References: <356AB932B7198FB4.3EC0B75D519810CE.57FCF0BC6A8679C4@lp.airnews.net>, <V%c56.4648$of7.221797@news1.atl> <3Fa56.4580$of7.216286@news1.atl> <mailman.978670867.31055.python-list@python.org> <mailman.978711967.28730.python-list@python.org> <mailman.978720486.2412.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Rrt56.1144$4Z.79416@news2.atl>

Moshe Zadka wrote in message ...
>I don't know why, but it's certainly a motto of TomC, who writes
>Perl books and Perl docos.


And who convinced me of the importance of Taint mode..

Joel





From mikael at isy.liu.se  Fri Jan 12 02:38:49 2001
From: mikael at isy.liu.se (Mikael Olofsson)
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 08:38:49 +0100 (MET)
Subject: boolean xor
In-Reply-To: <Tbi76.10504$X3.66627@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <XFMail.010112083849.mikael@isy.liu.se>

On 11-Jan-01 Steve Holden wrote:
 >  But that's not something you wouldn't not
 >  want to do on a regular basis, probably.

VaguenessError: Too many negations.

/Mikael

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WWW:     http://www.dtr.isy.liu.se/dtr/staff/mikael               
Phone:   +46 - (0)13 - 28 1343
Telefax: +46 - (0)13 - 28 1339
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From erno-news at erno.iki.fi  Sun Jan 14 18:12:08 2001
From: erno-news at erno.iki.fi (Erno Kuusela)
Date: 15 Jan 2001 01:12:08 +0200
Subject: Web devel with python. Whats the best route?
References: <mailman.978910629.6814.python-list@python.org> <93cqvi0191h@news1.newsguy.com> <kuofxhi4d2.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi> <93om7l$p6s$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <kusnmmfs6a.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi> <93t6bv$pj$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <kud7dpg247.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>

In article <93t6bv$pj$1 at nnrp1.deja.com>, echuck at mindspring.com writes:

| In article <kusnmmfs6a.fsf at lasipalatsi.fi>,
|   Erno Kuusela <erno-news at erno.iki.fi> wrote:
|| In article <93om7l$p6s$1 at nnrp1.deja.com>, echuck at mindspring.com
| writes:
|| | Also, is (b) really an advantage? How often do you need to take a
| URL
|| | to another machine?
|| 
|| pretty often. mail it to a friend, etc.

| But then wouldn't that friend come in as "erno" instead of themselves?

yeah, if you used it for user accounts. sometimes one wants to do that...

|| | Item (d) says cookies are ugly. What's ugly about this:?
|| |   Set-Cookie: use=webware;
|| | Or the clean URLs described above? Session ids are for the eyes of
|| | programmers, not users.
|| 
|| cookies are an ugly kludge in http because they are logically
|| part of the information needed to locate the object in the http
|| request, but they are outside of the path in the request. and they
| hurt
|| cacheability.

| They are only part of the information required to locate the object if
| that's how you're using them. If the cookie simply identifies the user
| for purposes of security, then this is more of an "aspect" of web
| interaction rather than part of the path to the object.

that's what i said, they are a part of the information :). http
tries to be stateless in principle (cookies aren't part of the http
spec i think).

| Also, if the web site is really using server side session variables to
| determine content, whether the session is in a URL or a cookie, then
| cacheability by the client is already out the window.

how so?

the content behind the session-unique url is perfectly cacheable by
intermediate proxies, unlike for cookies.

also most of the traffic and page loading time is accounted for
by images. the path to these can typically be without the
session id component, so they're cacheable even between requests
by users of different sessions. with cookies the cookie information
is sent for images also causing cacheability problems.

|| they are a pain to manage for users, who have to enable them for your
|| site. which is often painful since many browsers don't provide for
|| this functionality - users have to rely on a 3rd party proxy or
|| somesuch to do the filtering.

| I'm not clear on this part. Most users have cookies by default because
| most browsers support cookies out of the box. I define "most" by the
| distribution of hits and/or users, not by enumerating all the browser
| products.

maybe if your target audience is readers of www.playboy.com.

for many applications the assumption that all users are
computer-illiterate and/or stupid is false. power to the users!

this is the same sort of attitude that leads to the
too-small-font-size problem on the web. "netscape 1.0 happened to have
a too large default font size, so lets make all the text on our web
pages be 2 levels smaller than default because we know our users are
too stupid to change the defaults".

a large percentage of the people i know are using either junkbuster or
a browser (such as mozilla and konqueror) that can enable/disable
cookies on a per-site basis.

| While I'm sure stats vary quite a bit from site to site, it's usually a
| matter of Netscape/Mozilla vs. Explorer vs. some small percentage of
| browsers (typically < 1%) that are trying to be compatible with these
| two browser camps anyway.

yeah, "we have both kinds of music - country *and* western" :)

i like to think i target the www, and not netscape/mozilla.

  -- erno


From flognat at flognat.myip.org  Tue Jan 23 04:41:44 2001
From: flognat at flognat.myip.org (Andrew Markebo)
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 09:41:44 GMT
Subject: Modifying .htpasswd from Python?
References: <90312091gustaflalgonetse@194.213.69.148> <3A6BCCEC.EA8CE857@stroeder.com> <90316137Fgustaflalgonetse@194.213.69.148> <heXa6.47831$LZ5.441426@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com> <9031D9546gustaflalgonetse@194.213.69.152>
Message-ID: <m3vgr6wqp3.fsf@master.athome>

/ gustafl at algonet.se (Gustaf Liljegren) wrote:
| [...]
| What is the reason to leave out some modules? At least you won't save 
| processing time, since modules has to be imported anyway using the import 
| statement.

Not present at all platforms python can be found on.

| [...]
| I'll use this in a CGI script in UNIX. The server is on a web hotel, so I 
| guess there is no possibility other than asking the Python administrator to 
| recompile it with this module included, right? Or can I put only crypt in 
| my own directory?

If you get approximately the same python and build as the webhotel,
you can do this. If the webhotel has dynamic modules enabled in their
python..

Otherwise hack your own crypt in python :-) The algorithm is public
:-) (Hmm haven't anyone done this already?)

        /Andy



From matz at zetabits.com  Sat Jan 27 09:44:30 2001
From: matz at zetabits.com (Yukihiro Matsumoto)
Date: 27 Jan 2001 23:44:30 +0900
Subject: Python vs Ruby
References: <94mdkd$222e$1@news.adamastor.ac.za>
 <p6qwvbjtr97.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>
 <mailman.980510622.2558.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <877l3h5a29.fsf@hoyogw.netlab.co.jp>

Hi,

entropia <entropiamax at jazzfree.com> writes:

|Some time ago I tested Ruby vs Python:
|I made a program that calculates a fibonacci numbers.
|Python was as double as fast (Win95). Maybe that is because
|in Ruby a number is a class, in Python not.

double?  Fibonacci is mostly based on function calls so that
it's not the best field of Ruby.  But they give almost same
performance result on my box.

--- fib.py
# calculate Fibonacci(20)
# for benchmark
def fib(n):
  if n<2:
    return n
  else:
    return fib(n-2)+fib(n-1)

print fib(20)
---

--- fib.rb
# calculate Fibonacci(20)
# for benchmark
def fib(n)
  if n<2
    n
  else
    fib(n-2)+fib(n-1)
  end
end
print(fib(20), "\n");
---


From Blair.Lowe at compeng.net  Mon Jan  8 13:15:06 2001
From: Blair.Lowe at compeng.net (Blair Lowe)
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 11:15:06 -0700
Subject: zombie question
In-Reply-To: <93ci26$hog$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
References: <93c19g$5k7$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
 <mailman.978959594.8297.python-list@python.org>
 <93ci26$hog$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <v04220804b67fb13e2996@[192.168.11.33]>

Hi,

Please also be aware that BSD and SYSV UNIX deal with zombies 
differently. It has to do with the sleeping properties of the parent.

You will need a switch to determine the operating system type, and 
deal with the processes differently depending on what it is.

Also, does conn.close cut off the child from the calling parent? Just 
a dumb guess.

Blair.

At 14:15 +0000 2001/01/08, jianchen at my-deja.com wrote:
>sure!
>
>the parent process looks like this??
>------------------------------------------------------------
>serv=socket.socket(socket.AF_INET,socket.SOCK_STREAM)
>
>try:
>	serv.bind((HOST,PORT))
>except:
>	print "Can't bind to local port %s" % PORT
>	sys.exit(-1)
>serv.listen(5)
>signal.signal(signal.SIGCHLD,handler)
>while 1:
>	conn,addr=serv.accept()
>	pid=os.fork()
>	if pid<0:	myerr('Can\'t fork new process')
>	if pid==0:	# the child process
>		serv.close(??
>		proxy(conn,addr)	# the real proxy
>		sys.exit(0)
>	conn.close()
>------------------------------------------------------------
>
>The handler is :
>
>def handler(signum,frame):
>  	pid,excode=os.waitpid(-1,os.WNOHANG)
>	return
>
>------------------------------------------------------------
>
>the most strange thing is that the handler is never called!
>any advice. thanks!
>
>
>
>Sent via Deja.com
>http://www.deja.com/
>--
>http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Computer Engineering Inc. http://www.compeng.net
Phone: 780 499 5687 (9 - 5 MST) Fax:   780 435 0693 (24 Hours)
All email advice that is provided for free is without warrantee: use 
at your own risk. 



From vsbabu at erols.com  Fri Jan 12 20:29:58 2001
From: vsbabu at erols.com (Satheesh Babu)
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 20:29:58 -0500
Subject: config for Python as the IIS hosted ASP script Lang
References: <lvN76.998430$8u4.20950501@news1.rdc1.bc.home.com>
Message-ID: <93ob1h$mqm$1@bob.news.rcn.net>

I used ActiveState Python Build 202 and it all worked
with no configuration - out of the box

--
v.s.babu
vsbabu at erols.com
http://vsbabu.csoft.net
"TC" <trclark at home.com> wrote in message
news:lvN76.998430$8u4.20950501 at news1.rdc1.bc.home.com...




From phd at phd.pp.ru  Tue Jan  9 11:25:06 2001
From: phd at phd.pp.ru (Oleg Broytmann)
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 19:25:06 +0300 (MSK)
Subject: mxTools (was Re: why no "do : until"?)
In-Reply-To: <L3JTK6ALVzW6Ewyk@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0101091923390.5204-100000@fep132.fep.ru>

On Tue, 9 Jan 2001, Robin Becker wrote:
> >   Anyone here has any doubts that at least mxDateTime simply MUST be in
> >the Python core? :)
> >
>
> I'm a minimalist; let 100 flowers bloom, but the core should really only
> include the minimal required. Fancy dates are a bit too far for me. I

   mxDateTime is not for fancy dates. Many SQL modules use it for returning
DATE/TIME fields from SQL. Think also about including it into Zope
(replacing current simple DateTime)...

Oleg.
----
     Oleg Broytmann            http://phd.pp.ru/            phd at phd.pp.ru
           Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN.




From fabien.germain at campuslingua.com  Thu Jan 25 10:58:34 2001
From: fabien.germain at campuslingua.com (Fabien Germain)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 16:58:34 +0100
Subject: ZOPE : Zcatalog
Message-ID: <94pib3$1e2t$1@news5.isdnet.net>

Hello,

First, is there a NG only for Zope ?

I've got a problem with a search form.

I have a ZCatalog with lots of entries. I added the index "absolute_url" in
order to search by the files url.

Why ?
'cause I have files in organized folders like that :
......../language_name/country_name/city_name/element

I'd like to do a search on "#language_name and #country_name and #city_name"
in my catalog, so I use the absolute_url.
But the problem is that the search only looks the end of the absolute_url
string, that's to say "element" in my exemple.

How could I search in all the string ?

Thank you for answering to fabien.germain at campuslingua.com.

Sorry for my bad english.

Fabien.




From jhorSPAMBGONneman at wanadoo.fr  Mon Jan 29 03:20:24 2001
From: jhorSPAMBGONneman at wanadoo.fr (Jurie Horneman)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 09:20:24 +0100
Subject: Unicode pb in Python 2.0 solved - no thanks to WinPython
Message-ID: <95b65r$l27$1@wanadoo.fr>

(Again at the risk of exposing my newbie status...)

I have solved my Unicode problem by changing sitecustomize.py as suggested
in this newsgroup. However, it took me about two hours to get that working.
Why?

- I changed sitecustomize.py. When I launched my program in WinPython, my
Unicode problem was still there. No error messages anywhere. I resorted to
debugging by printing messages - NOTHING.
- I then changed site.py to see if it could actually import
sitecustomize.py. None of my changes - printing messages again - had any
effect.
- I listed the imported modules and noticed that the compiled version of
site.py had been used. So I removed that, hoping my new version would be
recompiled properly. NADA.
- I launched my script using plain ol' Python, without WinPython. Voila! It
launched my site.py, which told me I had a syntax error in the first (print)
statement of sitecustomize.py. I had indented the first line - normal for C
/ C++, bad in Python. Told you I was a newbie...
- I got the thing working in 1 minute, reran it in WinPython, and everything
worked fine.

I would very much like to "RTFM", and believe me I tried, but there isn't
much M to FR. How could I have avoided this problem with less agony? Should
I report the bug to the authors of WinPython?

--
Jurie Horneman
Opinions expressed are my own
jhorSPAMBGONneman at wanadoo.fr




From phd at phd.pp.ru  Tue Jan 16 11:39:56 2001
From: phd at phd.pp.ru (Oleg Broytmann)
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 19:39:56 +0300 (MSK)
Subject: [ANNOUNCE] FreeImage 2.0.0 out!
In-Reply-To: <20010117004003.A7B57A82D@darjeeling.zadka.site.co.il>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0101161938530.20622-100000@fep132.fep.ru>

On Wed, 17 Jan 2001, Moshe Zadka wrote:
> > > Curious.
> > > It compiles only with MSVC++6.0, yet works on Windows and Linux (??)
> >
> >    It compiles on Linux, but not on *BSD? :))) Cannot believe it. :)
>
> Simple: *BSD doesn't have MSVC++6.0

   Linux certainly has! Thank you for explanation :)))

Oleg.
----
     Oleg Broytmann            http://phd.pp.ru/            phd at phd.pp.ru
           Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN.




From wolfson at midway.uchicago.edu  Mon Jan  8 21:15:54 2001
From: wolfson at midway.uchicago.edu (Ben Wolfson)
Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2001 02:15:54 GMT
Subject: Web devel with python. Whats the best route?
References: <mailman.978910629.6814.python-list@python.org> <93dfft077p@news1.newsguy.com> <mailman.979000510.4052.python-list@python.org> <mailman.979003689.6153.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <uvu66.120$x3.1574@uchinews>

In article <mailman.979003689.6153.python-list at python.org>,
Lele Gaifax  <lele at seldati.it> wrote:
>>>>>> On Mon, 8 Jan 2001 14:33:43 -0500, D-Man <dsh8290 at rit.edu> said:
>
>    D> On Mon, Jan 08, 2001 at 11:30:26PM +0100, Alex Martelli wrote:
>    D> | "Lele Gaifax" <lele at seldati.it> wrote in message | | > PS:
>    D> Alex, un ciao particolare! Ti ricordi di me? Sublink... :) | |
>    D> E vorrei vedere, che ci si potesse scordare della gloriosa
>    D> sublink.org e | di tutti i suoi protagonisti...!-) Ciao Lele!
>    D> |
>
>    D> You do realize that it's impolite to "whisper" in public?  Now
>    D> I'm curious to know what you are talking about.  But maybe it's
>    D> my own fault for being "deaf" <wink>.
>
>Sorry, my fault: I was only saying "hello" to a good&old friend. I
>thought it was clear... after all, "ciao" *is* international, isn't 
>it ?-)

And besides, it's nothing a quick trip to babelfish doesn't take care
of with ease:

Lele Gaifax:   Alex, hello a particular one!  You memories of me?

Alex Martelli: And I would want to see, that us it could be scordare
               of glorious sublink.org and all its protagonists Hello Lele!





-- 
Barnabas T. Rumjuggler
I say, an object can move whether or not an "external (male, masculine) 
force" chooses to act upon (rape) it!
 -- David Zacuto


From be at et.dtu.dk  Wed Jan 10 05:44:04 2001
From: be at et.dtu.dk (Brian Elmegaard)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 11:44:04 +0100
Subject: Canvas item class
Message-ID: <3A5C3CF4.2C5B6032@et.dtu.dk>

Hi,

I am trying to (find out how to) make an application for making
flowsheets of energy plants and exporting the relevant data to
simulators. I primarily consider tk(inter)for the GUI.

The flowsheet will consist of schematic drawings of different devices.
These may need to be made out of more than one canvas item. Furthermore,
the components should also keep tracks of different parameters for the
device.

So, what I would like to have is a component class inheriting the
methods of a generic canvas item and be able to configure this to my
needs and then draw them as wanted. However, reading 'An introduction to
tkinter' it seems to me that canvas items are not like other tkinter
objects, so I am not sure that it can be done this way. Am I off-track? 

Should I instead make a component class which has a method for
specification of the schematic and from the canvas call an
eval(itemSchematic)?

-- 
Brian
http://www.et.dtu.dk/energysystems
http://www.rk-speed.dk http://fiduso.dk http://sunsite.auc.dk/dk-tug
\TeX, tak


From henry_crun3583 at my-deja.com  Mon Jan 22 18:39:11 2001
From: henry_crun3583 at my-deja.com (henry_crun3583 at my-deja.com)
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 23:39:11 GMT
Subject: serial i/o under linux?
Message-ID: <94igau$h6i$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

Can anyone give an example of simple serial port ops under linux?
ie I want to write a string, and readlines until done or timeout....


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From hinsen at cnrs-orleans.fr  Mon Jan  8 05:32:22 2001
From: hinsen at cnrs-orleans.fr (Konrad Hinsen)
Date: 08 Jan 2001 11:32:22 +0100
Subject: simple symbolic math in Python
References: <vE966.12210$K72.50241@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <m3u27afi6h.fsf@chinon.cnrs-orleans.fr>

kragen at dnaco.net (Kragen Sitaker) writes:

> I'm running into a problem: I can overload unary minus, but I can't
> overload e.g. math.sin and math.cos, because they're not methods.  It

Right. However, if you have NumPy, you can override the math functions
in Numeric, which are the ones that NumPy users prefer anyway (because
they support arrays). Just define methods sin, cos, ... in your
class.

Konrad.
-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Konrad Hinsen                            | E-Mail: hinsen at cnrs-orleans.fr
Centre de Biophysique Moleculaire (CNRS) | Tel.: +33-2.38.25.56.24
Rue Charles Sadron                       | Fax:  +33-2.38.63.15.17
45071 Orleans Cedex 2                    | Deutsch/Esperanto/English/
France                                   | Nederlands/Francais
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From scarblac at pino.selwerd.nl  Wed Jan 24 18:38:32 2001
From: scarblac at pino.selwerd.nl (Remco Gerlich)
Date: 24 Jan 2001 23:38:32 GMT
Subject: How do I know all thrown exceptions of a function?
References: <g3lb49.73s.ln@127.0.0.1> <94d93h$55d$1@troll.powertech.no> <mailman.980059223.25947.python-list@python.org> <slrn96rk66.ugd.scarblac@pino.selwerd.nl> <mailman.980287769.21816.python-list@python.org> <slrn96tref.gb.scarblac@pino.selwerd.nl> <94n3im$t1i$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <slrn96uphd.1cp.scarblac@pino.selwerd.nl>

Donn Cave <donn at u.washington.edu> wrote in comp.lang.python:
> Do rules, even "rules of thumb", help us write code that makes sense?
> I don't know, but it's not easy to come up with a good rule of thumb!
> Obviously the real quality of a system depends on the effort and insight
> the programmer brings to bear on it.
> 
> I'm not sure it's clear that a programmer must have an inventory of
> potential exceptions.  For common programming applications, I think
> we trap exceptions because we think we can do something appropriate,
> because we think we understand the nature of that problem.  A list
> of names of exceptions isn't enough, we need to understand the exceptions
> in terms of the problems they represent in that context.  I don't think
> you can make a list of exceptions, for any non-trivial function, that
> can possibly be both complete and meaningful.


I suppose the rule of thumb is "whatever you do, think about it, keep it
simple, and document it well.", as usual.

Which is sort of what we thought beforehand. But I like the discussion :)

-- 
Remco Gerlich


From quinn at groat.ugcs.caltech.edu  Sat Jan 20 05:16:18 2001
From: quinn at groat.ugcs.caltech.edu (Quinn Dunkan)
Date: 20 Jan 2001 10:16:18 GMT
Subject: Tabbing/Spaces
References: <B68E060D.901B%bobhicks@adelphia.net> <mtzogn9rpx.fsf@astron.berkeley.edu> <ivcZcLAtwLa6Ew2r@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <mtu26v9iwm.fsf@astron.berkeley.edu>
Message-ID: <slrn96ipbi.oul.quinn@groat.ugcs.caltech.edu>

On 19 Jan 2001 16:17:13 -0800, Johann Hibschman <johann at physics.berkeley.edu>
wrote:
>Shrug.  Whatever suits you best, I guess.  I just hate getting all-tab
>code, since then I have to re-indent it for it to be readable.
>All-space code, on the other hand, always looks fine.

Unless you use proportional fonts.


From stepheb at comm.mot.com  Thu Jan 11 12:55:04 2001
From: stepheb at comm.mot.com (Stephen Boulet)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 11:55:04 -0600
Subject: Should I learn Python or Java?
References: <HEO56.5504$y9.2881293@typhoon.we.rr.com> <978840685.459818@emperor.labs.agilent.com>
Message-ID: <3A5DF377.791E3DE0@comm.mot.com>

Brian Zhou wrote:
[snip]

> Language is like musical instrument, it's means to an end --
> music. I highly recommend learning design patterns also.
>

Can anyone recommend some literature about design patterns that would be
helpful to someone learning to program python?

--
Stephen Boulet



From pj at sgi.com  Fri Jan 12 18:27:41 2001
From: pj at sgi.com (Paul Jackson)
Date: 12 Jan 2001 23:27:41 GMT
Subject: Speed of Python vs. Perl
References: <mailman.979266192.1957.python-list@python.org> <Owy76.5648$Qb7.787357@newsb.telia.net>
Message-ID: <93o3td$oee3u$1@fido.engr.sgi.com>

/F wrote:
|> how about changing read_compiled_module()

Ok - working on a copy of Python 1.5.2 over Irix 6.5.10, I tried
this, and also squeezing out an expensive strspn() call inside
the Python/compile.c code.

The original Python can print "Hello, world" in about 180
msecs on this machine.  Perl can do it in about 50 msecs.
Fredrik's marshal.c change saves perhaps 40 msecs, and my
strspn() change another 10 or 20 msecs, bringing the Python
cost down from 180 msecs to about 120 or 130 msecs.

So these two changes account for almost half the Perl win
in startup time, at least on my current system.

Here are the two diff's.  Probably there is something better I
should be doing with these diff's than just posting them here
-- if so, let me know.


--- marshal.c.orig      Wed Oct  7 18:45:47 1998
+++ marshal.c   Fri Jan 12 15:01:03 2001
@@ -38,6 +38,8 @@
 #include "longintrepr.h"
 #include "compile.h"
 #include "marshal.h"
+#include <sys/types.h>
+#include <sys/stat.h>
 
 #define TYPE_NULL      '0'
 #define TYPE_NONE      'N'
@@ -611,14 +613,40 @@
        return r_long(&rf);
 }
 
+static off_t
+getfilesize(fp)
+       FILE *fp;
+{
+       struct stat st;
+       if (fstat(fileno(fp), &st) != 0)
+               return -1;
+       else
+               return st.st_size;
+}
+
 PyObject *
 PyMarshal_ReadObjectFromFile(fp)
        FILE *fp;
 {
        RFILE rf;
+       off_t filesize;
        if (PyErr_Occurred()) {
                fprintf(stderr, "XXX rd_object called with exception set\n");
                return NULL;
+       }
+#      define FILEBUFSIZE 65536
+       filesize = getfilesize(fp);
+       if (filesize > 0 && filesize < FILEBUFSIZE) {
+               char *buf;
+               buf = malloc(filesize);
+               if (buf > 0) {
+                       PyObject *pop;
+                       size_t rsz;
+                       rsz = fread(buf, 1, filesize, fp);
+                       pop = PyMarshal_ReadObjectFromString(buf, rsz);
+                       free(buf);
+                       return pop;
+               }
        }
        rf.fp = fp;
        return r_object(&rf);


--- compile.c.orig      Thu Jan 28 07:08:09 1999
+++ compile.c   Fri Jan 12 14:59:41 2001
@@ -198,6 +198,27 @@
 #define NAME_CHARS \
        "0123456789ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ_abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz"
 
+/* all_name_chars(s): true iff all chars in s are valid NAME_CHARS */
+
+static int
+all_name_chars(s)
+       char *s;
+{
+       static char ok_name_char[256];
+       static char *name_chars = NAME_CHARS;
+
+       if (ok_name_char[*name_chars] == 0) {
+               char *p;
+               for (p = name_chars; *p; p++)
+                       ok_name_char[*p] = 1;
+       }
+       while (*s) {
+               if (ok_name_char[*s++] == 0)
+                       return 0;
+       }
+       return 1;
+}
+
 PyCodeObject *
 PyCode_New(argcount, nlocals, stacksize, flags,
              code, consts, names, varnames, filename, name,
@@ -263,8 +284,7 @@
                if (!PyString_Check(v))
                        continue;
                p = PyString_AsString(v);
-               if ((int)strspn(p, NAME_CHARS)
-                   != PyString_Size(v))
+               if(!all_name_chars(p))
                        continue;
                PyString_InternInPlace(&PyTuple_GET_ITEM(consts, i));
        }
-- 
                          I won't rest till it's the best ...
                          Manager, Linux System Software
                          Paul Jackson <pj at sgi.com> 1.650.933.1373


From embed at NO_SPAM_PLEASE.geocities.com  Mon Jan 15 10:57:30 2001
From: embed at NO_SPAM_PLEASE.geocities.com (Warren Postma)
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 10:57:30 -0500
Subject: Remote Python Debugger
Message-ID: <T7F86.3524$Oe.17120@tor-nn1.netcom.ca>

Has anyone implemented a Graphical Remote Python Debugger?

Here is the situation I have: I am running Python on an embedded system. We
have remote command line access, so we could use the built-in PDB debugger
to step through our code, but we want to provide a graphical edit/debug
facility through our remote monitoring software, the trick being that the
graphical facility runs on one computer (in your office) and the actual
python interpreter runs on an embedded controller somewhere, connected only
through either a socket connection, or a direct serial cable link.

Warren




From scarblac at pino.selwerd.nl  Tue Jan 23 13:30:09 2001
From: scarblac at pino.selwerd.nl (Remco Gerlich)
Date: 23 Jan 2001 18:30:09 GMT
Subject: observer design pattern
References: <94i340$4er$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <3A6CA19C.89A6DFB2@attglobal.net> <3A6D0992.C86D92CD@home.com>
Message-ID: <slrn96rj39.ugd.scarblac@pino.selwerd.nl>

Rick Lee <rwklee at home.com> wrote in comp.lang.python:
> What Design Patterns book are you referring to?

Probably "Design Patterns: Elements of Reusable Object Oriented Software" by
Gamma, Helm, Johnson, Vlissides and Booch. A very good software engineering
book. Instant classic.

If you do any object oriented design or programming, you should read it.

-- 
Remco Gerlich


From dogusanh at tr.net  Thu Jan 18 13:42:40 2001
From: dogusanh at tr.net (Hakki Dogusan)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 20:42:40 +0200
Subject: access FoxPro files without ODBC
References: <943qu9$hde$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <947db3$cqi9e$1@ID-50820.news.dfncis.de>

Hi,

--
<godcha at my-deja.com> iletide yazd? news:943qu9$hde$1 at nnrp1.deja.com...
> This is a newbie question...
>
> But after browsing Python Library reference,
> Python FAQ, and comp.lang.python, I have not been
> able to determine if there is a way to access FoxPro files without ODBC
> available for Python.
>
> any help appreciated
>
> Thanks
>
> Godefroid Chapelle
> BubbleNet sprl
> Louvain-la-Neuve Belgium
>
>
> Sent via Deja.com
> http://www.deja.com/

If you have CodeBase Library (sequiter.com),
look at my home page for a 'solution'.

--
Best regards,
Hakki Dogusan
dogusanh at tr.net
http://home.tr.net/dogusanh






From chris at voodooland.net  Sun Jan  7 23:37:07 2001
From: chris at voodooland.net (Chris Watson)
Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2001 22:37:07 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Web devel with python. Whats the best route?
In-Reply-To: <spenrose-6964FE.19494107012001@news.dnai.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.21.0101072233360.67579-100000@open-systems.net>

On Sun, 7 Jan 2001, Sam Penrose wrote:

> 0) PyApache appears defunct and leaks memory under RedHat Linux 6.
> 
> 1) The easiest way might well be CGI. Intel Linux boxes hold up very 
> well on CGI; a PIII/SCSI server with plenty of RAM can comfortably 
> handle tens of thousands of CGI hits a day.

	Yea I am looking at just plain vanilla CGI too. Tens of thousands
isnt that much. Millions yes, tens no :) I am looking into the cgi lib
though. It looks like it might have a use. I dunno im still looking at the
options. Thanks for the input! I appreciate it.

--
=============================================================================
-Chris Watson         (316) 326-3862 | FreeBSD Consultant, FreeBSD Geek 
Work:              scanner at jurai.net | Open Systems Inc., Wellington, Kansas
Home:  scanner at deceptively.shady.org | http://open-systems.net
=============================================================================
WINDOWS: "Where do you want to go today?"
LINUX: "Where do you want to go tomorrow?"
BSD: "Are you guys coming or what?"
=============================================================================
irc.openprojects.net #FreeBSD -Join the revolution!
ICQ: 20016186




From dalke at acm.org  Thu Jan 11 02:07:31 2001
From: dalke at acm.org (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 00:07:31 -0700
Subject: boolean xor
References: <mailman.979187835.11489.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <93jm0a$lbj$1@slb7.atl.mindspring.net>

Delaney, Timothy:
>This can be done even better ...
>
>def xor (a, b):
> return (not a)!= (not b)
>
>getting rid of one negation ;)

Ooh, I like it.  It's even better than my use of
operator.truth because it doesn't have the function
call lookup and overhead.

                    Andrew
                    dalke at acm.org





From nas at arctrix.com  Mon Jan 15 03:36:07 2001
From: nas at arctrix.com (Neil Schemenauer)
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 00:36:07 -0800
Subject: storing passwords
In-Reply-To: <20010115200852.9CFF8A828@darjeeling.zadka.site.co.il>; from moshez@zadka.site.co.il on Mon, Jan 15, 2001 at 10:08:52PM +0200
References: <Pine.OS2.4.30.0101150725530.438-100000@CENTRAL> <20010115200852.9CFF8A828@darjeeling.zadka.site.co.il>
Message-ID: <20010115003607.B3666@glacier.fnational.com>

On Mon, Jan 15, 2001 at 10:08:52PM +0200, Moshe Zadka wrote:
> On Mon, 15 Jan 2001 Andrew MacIntyre <andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au> wrote:
> 
> > I wrote a simple module that stores the account,password pair as an XOR
> > "masked" string in a dbm file with the hostname as the key.  The module is
> > only published (put in the PYTHONPATH) as a .pyc/.pyo, so the full source
> > is not generally readable.
> > 
> > This is only obscurity however, not real security.
> 
> And not even good obscurity! .pyc files are actually quite readable
> if you use the dis module, and I think Mr. Aycock wrote a decompyler.
> Don't use security through obscurity, please!

There's no excuse either:

    import sha
    def hash_password(password):
        """Apply a one way hash function to the users password and
        return the result"""
        return sha.new(password).hexdigest()

    def valid_password(self, password, hash):
        "Return true if the provided password is correct"
        return (hash == hash_password(password))

Its easy to add some "salt" to the hash too if your worried about
dictionary based attacks.

  Neil



From root at rainerdeyke.com  Sat Jan 13 19:02:46 2001
From: root at rainerdeyke.com (Rainer Deyke)
Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 00:02:46 GMT
Subject: Python language suggestion
References: <93l4ve$no3$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <20010113154813.2F5A5A828@darjeeling.zadka.site.co.il> <mailman.979428692.14432.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <G0686.40579$ge4.15985027@news2.rdc2.tx.home.com>

"Chris Ryland" <cpr at emsoftware.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.979428692.14432.python-list at python.org...
> Why doesn't the attribute reference (primary "." identifier) work for any
> dictionary-like object?

import UserDict
d = UserDict.__dict__
print d.keys, d['keys']


--
Rainer Deyke (root at rainerdeyke.com)
Shareware computer games           -           http://rainerdeyke.com
"In ihren Reihen zu stehen heisst unter Feinden zu kaempfen" - Abigor




From chris.nelson at bwc.state.oh.us  Tue Jan 23 10:59:38 2001
From: chris.nelson at bwc.state.oh.us (chris.nelson at bwc.state.oh.us)
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 15:59:38 GMT
Subject: How do I kill an empty file ??
Message-ID: <94k9p5$vs2$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

Hello:
I have several TAB files that are generated daily for reports that are
then converted into graphs. The problem is that every now and then a
report file will fail to generate data and I will have an empty file.

Currently I read in the the file assigning it to a variable and
readlines()
Then I use the following to parse out blank lines in a normal file


        for line in data:
	    j=0
	    if len(line)>2:
            ......rest of code

What's an easy way to adapt this so that I can ignore files that are
nothing but empty lines? Ultimately I'm looking for sytax that will
ignore processing a file if it is empty.

Please advise and tanks,
Chris


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From joejava at dragonat.net  Tue Jan 16 18:21:07 2001
From: joejava at dragonat.net (Joel Ricker)
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 18:21:07 -0500
Subject: ´º½º±×·ì °¡ÀÔ
References: <mailman.977386685.2743.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <gN496.2631$CR2.106715@news3.atl>

????? wrote in message ...
>
>???????? ????


I think you want comp.lang.perl.misc






From smnordby at yahoo.com  Wed Jan 17 08:50:52 2001
From: smnordby at yahoo.com (Steve)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 05:50:52 -0800
Subject: Best way to learn Python ?
References: <aa8a6t895h8l3k2q7nmhd25oh6m7haulj9@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3A65A33C.EA395451@yahoo.com>

"Python Essential Reference" by David Beazley is very handy and includes
a short tutorial.  If you plan to write gui's with Tkinter, then "Python
and Tkinter Programming" by John Grayson is excellent.  If you are on
Windows, "Python Programming on Win32" by Mark Hammond and Andy Robinson
looks good (haven't read but a little of it).

J5 wrote:
> 
> No schools teach it, so what books do you recommend ?
> 
> Also, what are some cool programming projects I could do ?
> 
> What do you guys write with python ?
> 
> J5


From mfletch at tpresence.com  Sun Jan 21 17:21:24 2001
From: mfletch at tpresence.com (Mike Fletcher)
Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 17:21:24 -0500
Subject: Different deployment considerations (was: Python & GUI?)
Message-ID: <CC59868A0A76D311B1F50090277B321C1E147B@VRTMAIL>

Hmm, didn't realise that. Strangely, I had an error report from my primary
users where their systems didn't find msvcrt.dll, renaming msvcirt.dll to
msvcrt.dll made everything work fine.  Curiouser and curiouser thought
Alice.

>Shrug<
Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: Dan Rolander [mailto:dan.rolander at marriott.com]
Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2001 8:51 AM
To: Mike Fletcher; python-list at python.org
Subject: Re: Different deployment considerations (was: Python & GUI?)


Hi Mike,

You wrote:

> There's nothing special to do for wxPython, I just run "standalone" or
> "simple" and the app is generated with the DLLs collected.  Once I rename
> msvcirt.dll to msvcrt.dll I've got a working application.

Why would you rename msvcirt.dll to msvcrt.dll?  These are two different
libraries. Msvcirt.dll is the C++ runtime and msvcrt.dll is the C runtime.

Dan




-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list



From fredrik at effbot.org  Sun Jan 28 04:57:06 2001
From: fredrik at effbot.org (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 09:57:06 GMT
Subject: Newbie Tkinter question
References: <mailman.980654913.6507.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <S1Sc6.9331$AH6.1568047@newsc.telia.net>

jerry keeney wrote:
> The problem is with self.button2.  When this part of
> code is commented out, the program works.  When I
> uncomment it out, like here:  I get an invalid syntax
> error for
> self.button2.grid(row=1,column=1)
>
> What obvious thing am I missing here?

did you get "SyntaxError: invalid token" ?

in my mailer, that grid show statement shows up as:

        self.button2 = Button(text="test", fg="red")
      self.button2.grid(row=1,column=1)

which indicates that you should check your editor's tab/space
settings...

(statements belonging to the same block must be properly
aligned.  also see:
http://www.python.org/doc/current/ref/indentation.html )

Cheers /F




From katz at Glue.umd.edu  Sat Jan 27 01:43:26 2001
From: katz at Glue.umd.edu (Roy Katz)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 01:43:26 -0500
Subject: . Python 2.1 function attributes
In-Reply-To: <mailman.980575232.12720.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.980575232.12720.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0101270135190.7677-100000@y.glue.umd.edu>

I find this explanation in need of more clarification:


You did not address the issue of multiplying entities.  I personally
see nothing wrong with function objects; they are light, and we can deal
with them.  Why add yet *another* way of doing things? 


# note: compared with f(), this implementation is an extra line 

class G:
    attr = 0
    def __call__(self): pass

g = G() long

---VERSUS---

def f():
  { 'attr':0 }
  pass


So the claim here is that saving a line of code justifies carving Python
with Occam's Razor? Say it ain't so!   

I find the argument for function attributes weak.  Hell, I wish to abolish
.__doc__ for functions as well.  It just doesn't seem
consistent.  Functions are functions, classes are classes.  It seems to me
even kludgier than print>>. 



Roey



On Sat, 27 Jan 2001, Tim Peters wrote:

> Akin to the same point as for letting people write
> 
>     x + 2
> 
> when they could be restricted to writing
> 
>     x + 1 + 1
> 
> That is, convenience, clarity, efficiency and naturalness.  As PEP 228 says,
> people *have* been abusing docstrings for all sorts of things, despite that
> they're well aware of class-base techniques.  If I want to associate data
> (other than a docstring, which is easy) with a function or method, first
> burying the function in an artificial singleton class and then using an
> instance of that class instead is simply convoluted in comparison.
> 
> 
> 



From glenfant at equod.com.nospam  Wed Jan 24 08:17:01 2001
From: glenfant at equod.com.nospam (Gilles Lenfant)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 14:17:01 +0100
Subject: Editor font in IDLE (Linux)
References: <mailman.980252066.30237.python-list@python.org> <94k31p$geg$1@reader1.imaginet.fr> <mailman.980260346.3483.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <94mkal$2me$1@reader1.imaginet.fr>

Martin,

This works only with Windows IDLE.
I removed :
         if sys.platform[:3] == 'win':
and tried different valid font names in:
text['font'] = ...

This seems to be completely ignored in Linux because IDLE always shows the
same ugly little font.

"Martin Franklin" <martin.franklin at westerngeco.com> a ?crit dans le message
news: mailman.980260346.3483.python-list at python.org...
> Take a look in EditorWindow.py it has this on line 142....
>
>             text['font'] = ("lucida console", 8)
> #            text['font'] = ("courier new", 10)
>
>
> change it to just ...
>
> text['font'] = ("Courier ", 14)
>
> or whatever font you like.....
>
> Martin
>




From sdm7g at virginia.edu  Tue Jan 23 14:06:55 2001
From: sdm7g at virginia.edu (Steven D. Majewski)
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 14:06:55 -0500 (EST)
Subject: I mean *setup.py* ! ... (more questions)[Re: libraries=['m'] in
 config.py [Re: Python 2.1 alpha 1 released!]]
In-Reply-To: <Pine.NXT.4.21.0101231204010.227-100000@localhost.virginia.edu>
Message-ID: <Pine.NXT.4.21.0101231355570.228-100000@localhost.virginia.edu>


** I meant setup.py, not config.py! **


OK -- same sort of problem building readline.so :
 setup.py wants to include -ltermcap 

I was willing to write the other one off as a MacOSX oddity that
nobody on python-dev was likely to know about, but -ltermcap is
likely to be a problem on other systems too! 

So that makes me think I'm missing some obvious way of overriding 
these switches. Are there any docs or tips on this new setup 
method ?  Am I just supposed to edit the source of setup.py, or 
is it generated from some template ? 


-- Steve Majewski 



On Tue, 23 Jan 2001, Steven D. Majewski wrote:

> 
> 
> Is there a simple way (other than editing config.py) to remove the
> effect of all of the "libraries=['m']" options from config.py ? 
> 
> This breaks the MacOSX build as there's no libm -- that functionality
> is build into the System.framework .
> 
> Shouldn't these type of flags be acquired from configure or the
> make environment somehow ? 
> 




From spam at spam.com  Tue Jan 16 20:01:03 2001
From: spam at spam.com (Penfold)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 01:01:03 -0000
Subject: How to call a stored procedure?
References: <3a64c959.600874890@localhost>
Message-ID: <t69rie217bf103@corp.supernews.com>

I've never used Oracle but I'll hazard a guess that like Sybase what you
really want is

cur.execute("vmuslin.delete_adserver 3");



"Victor Muslin" <victor at prodigy.net> wrote in message
news:3a64c959.600874890 at localhost...
> I am using Python 1.5.2 on WindowsNT.
>
> I have a stored procedure defined in Oracle:
>
> CREATE OR REPLACE PROCEDURE DELETE_SERVER
> (
>         SERVER_ID_ARG   IN NUMBER
> )
> AS
> BEGIN
>         DELETE FROM SERVER WHERE SERVER_ID = SERVER_ID_ARG;
> COMMIT;
> END DELETE_SERVER;
> /
>
> Calling it from SQLPLUS works file:
>
> SQL> execute delete_server(1);
>
> However when I try calling it from Python it gives me an error. Here's
> the Python program:
>
> import dbi, odbc
> import sys
> cs = 'db/user/password'
>
> dbconn = odbc.odbc(cs)
> cur = dbconn.cursor()
> cur.execute("execute vmuslin.delete_adserver(3)");
>
>
> The error I get is:
>
> Traceback (innermost last):
>   File "E:\dev\dclk\eng\src\apps\ADMIN_~1\xx.py", line 7, in ?
>     cur.execute("execute vmuslin.delete_adserver(3)");
> dbi.program-error: [Microsoft][ODBC driver for
> Oracle][Oracle]ORA-00900: invalid SQL statement in EXEC
>
> Is it not possible to call stored procedures from Python?




From sholden at holdenweb.com  Tue Jan 16 18:43:37 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 18:43:37 -0500
Subject: SQL-Statement with Python
References: <3A62E224.7AEE805E@students.uni-linz.ac.at> <93ut4q031hd@news1.newsguy.com> <R2M86.5299$J76.42003@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com> <941jnd0634@news1.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <K4596.1054$DI.17324@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>

"Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:941jnd0634 at news1.newsguy.com...
> "Steve Holden" <sholden at holdenweb.com> wrote in message
> news:R2M86.5299$J76.42003 at e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com...
>     [snip]
> > > ActiveState distribution, but even if you started with the standard
> > > distribution you probably want to add win32all anyway if you work
> > > with Python under Windows... it has just too many nifty things!-).
> > >
> > I might take issue with this (despite my last run-in with the
> martellibot...
> > Perhaps I should just do this first [thwack, thwack, thwack]). There,
> that's
> > better.
>
> You dispute that one probably wants to add win32all if one works
> with Python under Windows...?!  *Eeeek*.  Let's see, where did I
> put the tar and feathers...
>
Certainly not. Hammond might be in Australia but he should know how I admire
and respect his work [scrape, scrape, grovel, grovel, take the pot off the
fire, please].
I intended to refer downwards (to the bit I took issue with) not upwards.
Honest.
>
> > > rows = recordset.GetRows()
> > > for first, last in zip(rows[0], rows[1]):
> > >     print "%s, %s" % (last, first)
> > >
> > That's the bit I don't like.  You call the GetRows method, and what does
> it
> > return? Columns, mate, that's what. At least to the Python user. Not
what
> I
> > call intuitive.
>
> Yeah, I agree on this detail -- two-dimensional arrays are always a
> bother to translate between languages which think the first index
> varies fastest (Fortran, Visual Basic, ...) and those which think
> it varies slowest (C/C++, Java, Python, ...).  GetRows was clearly
> written by somebody thinking of a language of the first ilk:-).
>
> Anyway, if that bothers you too much you get to choose among a
> zillion other ways to ask a recordset for its contents, e.g....:
>
> for row in recordset.GetString()[:-1].split('\r'):
>     first, last = row.split('\t')
>     print "%s, %s" % (last, first)
>
> Or, simpler and faster, one can show off one's command of 'advanced'
> SQL:-), and get the *db engine* to do one's work:
>
> recordset, result = connection.Execute(
>   "Select LastName//', '//FirstName From Employees Order By LastName")
> print recordset.GetString().replace('\r','\n')
>
pretty good, though I would suggest "... Order By LastName, FirstName" for a
definitive ordering. Wow, I wish my SQL was that good :-) And in fact I'm
one of those who tend to write SQL keywords in UPPER CASE because that's
what I'm used to.

>
> > I'm sure you'll have a great explanation for it, though.  Mark Hammond's
> was
> > pretty good.
>
> Explanation for _what_ 'it'?  I must be confused...
>
"It" being the row-major vs. column-major ordering. I had completely
overlooked the fact that Microsoft tend to design their subsystems to play
with *their* languages. Don't talk to me about world domination!

>
> Alex
>
regards
 Steve




From parkw at better.net  Sat Jan 27 01:10:42 2001
From: parkw at better.net (William Park)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 01:10:42 -0500
Subject: Precision of float --- double?
In-Reply-To: <87hf2lk0xz.fsf@tea.thpoon.com>; from a.genkin@utoronto.ca on Sat, Jan 27, 2001 at 05:40:08AM +0000
References: <87hf2lk0xz.fsf@tea.thpoon.com>
Message-ID: <20010127011042.B496@better.net>

On Sat, Jan 27, 2001 at 05:40:08AM +0000, Arcady Genkin wrote:
> Could someone point me to a place in the documentation where the float
> type is defined?  Is it equivallent of C's double?

Library Reference -> Numeric Types -> first paragraph.

And, yes, it's C double.

---William Park, Open Geometry Consulting



From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Thu Jan 25 08:55:38 2001
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 13:55:38 +0000
Subject: freebsd extension problem
Message-ID: <Y0jKkKAaBDc6EwhS@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>

I'm trying to build an extension which used to work with 1.5.2 unde
freebsd.

I seem to be able to build the extension using the old

make -f Makefile.pre.in boot method and have linked to various
libraries. However for some reason I'm getting a bad magic number error
when trying to import the module.

I assume that this is somehow caused by a missing import. Is there an
easy way to find out what I'm missing?
-- 
Robin Becker


From t.harris at robinsons.co.uk  Fri Jan 19 04:21:58 2001
From: t.harris at robinsons.co.uk (Toby)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 09:21:58 -0000
Subject: Callback functions
References: <979830678.28930.1.nnrp-10.c3ad12d2@news.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: <979896084.23839.1.nnrp-10.c3ad12d2@news.demon.co.uk>

"Toby" <t.harris at robinsons.co.uk> wrote in message
news:979830678.28930.1.nnrp-10.c3ad12d2 at news.demon.co.uk...
> I am in the process of writing an extension to python for Windows NT using
> VC++ which implements a peer to peer network driver written in C++
compiled
> into a DLL.
>
> The C++ driver requires a callback into python code, I have got to the
point
> where a test function written in C++ to callback the python function works
> successfully, but all attempts to call the python callback from within the
> C++ DLL fail at :
>
>     result = PyEval_CallObject(func, args);
>
> I have printed values for func and args and they appear identical when
> called from Python and from the DLL... however I get the following error
>
>     The instruction at "0x0023f4b3" referenced memory at "0x0000000c". The
> memory could not be "read".
>
> I have scoured much of the online documentattion regarding extending &
> embedding Python all without success...
>
> Any help is much appreciated
> Toby
>
>




From moshez at zadka.site.co.il  Thu Jan  4 11:51:03 2001
From: moshez at zadka.site.co.il (Moshe Zadka)
Date: Thu,  4 Jan 2001 18:51:03 +0200 (IST)
Subject: embedded python - cancel "while 1: pass"
In-Reply-To: <20010103134829.A5919@westsidecnc.rh.rit.edu>
References: <20010103134829.A5919@westsidecnc.rh.rit.edu>, <P9K46.13336$t3.31020@tor-nn1.netcom.ca>
Message-ID: <20010104165103.A8EDEA84F@darjeeling.zadka.site.co.il>

On Wed, 3 Jan 2001 13:48:29 -0500, D-Man <dsh8290 at rit.edu> wrote:
> 
> Just brainstorming here:
> 
> you could inspect the code for such constructs and not execute those

Ummmmmm.....so far, no one has been able to solve the halting problem:
identifying a piece of code which never ends. In fact, one of the
central results of Computer Science is that it is impossible to do so.

The proof goes as follows: suppose finishes() is a function which is
given a function and answers whether that function returns or not (assume
only functions which don't receive parameters).

Now write the following function:

def foo():
	if finishes(foo):
		while 1:
			pass

Now, if foo finishes, then foo loops. But that means foo loops, so
finishes(foo) returns false, so foo doesn't loop. This is a contradiction,
so finishes() cannot exist.
-- 
Moshe Zadka <sig at zadka.site.co.il>
This is a signature anti-virus. 
Please stop the spread of signature viruses!



From a_ttreb at my-deja.com  Sun Jan 28 23:46:21 2001
From: a_ttreb at my-deja.com (a_ttreb at my-deja.com)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 04:46:21 GMT
Subject: win32com not working as advertised
Message-ID: <952sir$vtg$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

i'm running ActivePython 2.0, and whenever i
attempt to run makepy.py or combrowse.py i get
"python has performed an illegal operation..."
and all my pc's memory has been eaten up (i get
"there is not memory to run this application..."
after python crashes).

on the odd occasion that makepy dosen't crash, it
generates filenames silimilar to:

EAB22AC0-30C1-11CF-A7EB-0000C05BAE0Bx0x1x1.py

the "x0x1x1" doesn't look right.

has anyone had similiar experiences? and if so,
what if any solution is there?

tia
-brett


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From echuck at mindspring.com  Mon Jan 29 11:44:08 2001
From: echuck at mindspring.com (echuck at mindspring.com)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 16:44:08 GMT
Subject: marshal doesn't work with "file-like" objects
References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010126135016.029c4d90@mail.mindspring.com> <mailman.980540325.4462.python-list@python.org> <94t1bi$m73$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <mailman.980557896.25345.python-list@python.org> <950ab5$2h2$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <ku4ryj5zt3.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>
Message-ID: <9546kl$q4$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

In article <ku4ryj5zt3.fsf at lasipalatsi.fi>,
  Erno Kuusela <erno-news at erno.iki.fi> wrote:
> In article <950ab5$2h2$1 at nnrp1.deja.com>, echuck at mindspring.com
writes:
>
> | In article <mailman.980557896.25345.python-list at python.org>,
> |   Neil Schemenauer <nas at arctrix.com> wrote:
> || Won't cPickle work?
>
> | Yes, but:
>
> | 1. My benchmarks (which I don't have anymore) showed marshal to be
MUCH
> | faster than cPickle
>
> did you try cPickle's binary mode? it is many times faster than
> the default text mode at least on my machine.
>
>   -- erno


Yes, my benchmark was cPickle vs. marshal. If you look at the extra
benefits that pickle offers over marshal (providing custom hooks,
handling recursive data structures, handling user-defined objects, etc.)
it's clear that marshal pretty much *has* to be faster, provided that
both implementations are high quality.

-Chuck
--
http://webware.sourceforge.net


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From moshez at zadka.site.co.il  Tue Jan 30 02:29:39 2001
From: moshez at zadka.site.co.il (Moshe Zadka)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 09:29:39 +0200 (IST)
Subject: . Python 2.1 function attributes
In-Reply-To: <87lmrukpxi.fsf@sune.interspace.dk>
References: <87lmrukpxi.fsf@sune.interspace.dk>, <Pine.GSO.4.21.0101271303540.3501-100000@y.glue.umd.edu> <Pine.GSO.4.21.0101271158190.3501-100000@y.glue.umd.edu> <Pine.GSO.4.21.0101270135190.7677-100000@y.glue.umd.edu> <mailman.980593892.725.python-list@python.org> <$5A+ZwAGjtc6EwE0@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <14962.62953.304511.523826@anthem.wooz.org> <mailman.980613639.23439.python-list@python.org> <mailman.980617472.28020.python-list@python.org> <mailman.980621252.32649.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <20010130072939.00F64A840@darjeeling.zadka.site.co.il>

[Roy Katz]
> Let's add bless().  I want to change the class of an object at
> runtime.
> 
[ Moshe Zadka <moshez at zadka.site.co.il> ]
> You can already do this, and have been able to a long time.
> 
> foo.__class__ = new_class
> 
> Why would anyone want a new builtin for that?

[Sune Kirkeby]
> Why would anyone want the syntactic (sp?) sugar that "print >>" is?
> 
> Probably because it's both simpler to use and easier to understand.
> 
> I would think you would understand that  ;-)

Hardly:

bless(foo, new_class) vs. foo.__class__ = new_class for an operation
that I doubt  10% of Pythoneers do, vs.

print >>sys.stderr, "danger will robinson! number", n

(How many Python programmers preferred to write to stdout that warning
because print was too conveinient? You'll never know...)

I was originally against print>>, but the rather weak arguments people
manage to come up to denounce it (with the exception of Alex, who reported
a use case) have turned me about...
- 
Moshe Zadka <sig at zadka.site.co.il>
This is a signature anti-virus. 
Please stop the spread of signature viruses!
Fingerprint: 4BD1 7705 EEC0 260A 7F21  4817 C7FC A636 46D0 1BD6



From db3l at fitlinxx.com  Fri Jan 19 01:48:03 2001
From: db3l at fitlinxx.com (David Bolen)
Date: 19 Jan 2001 01:48:03 -0500
Subject: PSU uses emacs?
References: <948e4b$hm0$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <usnmg9gws.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com>

Chris Ryland <cpr at emsoftware.com> writes:

> Why do I have the sinking feeling that, with all the talk about IDEs
> for Python, that the cognoscenti all use Emacs with python-mode and a
> shell window? ;-)

You mean there's any other way to do Python development?

--
-- David
-- 
/-----------------------------------------------------------------------\
 \               David Bolen            \   E-mail: db3l at fitlinxx.com  /
  |             FitLinxx, Inc.            \  Phone: (203) 708-5192    |
 /  860 Canal Street, Stamford, CT  06902   \  Fax: (203) 316-5150     \
\-----------------------------------------------------------------------/


From aotto2 at my-deja.com  Sun Jan  7 11:22:02 2001
From: aotto2 at my-deja.com (aotto2 at my-deja.com)
Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2001 16:22:02 GMT
Subject: ANNOUNCE: Free-NET
Message-ID: <93a535$n76$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

Hi,

  after Mirosoft create .NET , it's time to answer

  have a look to:

    http://home.t-online.de/home/aotto/mqcon_E.html

  to read more about it


mfg

  aotto :)


Sent via Deja.com
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From clarence at netlojix.com  Sun Jan 28 00:41:12 2001
From: clarence at netlojix.com (Clarence Gardner)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 21:41:12 -0800
Subject: Thread Safety
Message-ID: <980660755.2138768834@news.silcom.com>

Hello all,

I have a multithreaded program in which I use the following pattern in
various places, because I was pretty sure it was thread-safe.  But since
I was just reading the thread about statcache, I thought I'd ask just to be
sure.  The code is in a function that runs periodically and disposes of
accumulated work:

def Periodic():
    global PendingDataStorage,PendingStatusUpdates
    while 1:
        time.sleep(10)
        Data,PendingDataStorage = PendingDataStorage,[]
        if Data:
            StoreDataPoints(Data)
        Data,PendingStatusUpdates = PendingStatusUpdates,[]
        if Data:
            SetErrorStatus(Data)

The code I'm talking about are the two binding statements, where
I bind to two names which form a tuple, rather than two statements,
which would certainly not be thread-safe.

Thanks,
--
Clarence Gardner
Software Engineer
NetLojix Communications
clarence at netlojix.com



From skip at mojam.com  Thu Jan 18 19:54:04 2001
From: skip at mojam.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 18:54:04 -0600 (CST)
Subject: XML-RPC articles at O'Reilly
Message-ID: <14951.36908.501060.343526@beluga.mojam.com>

Got a blurb on the XML-RPC mailing list that eventually led me to Dave
Warner's latest article at O'Reilly:

    http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/a/python/2001/01/17/xmlrpcserver.html

He writes about implementing an XML-RPC server using Fredrik Lundh's
xmlrpclib module.  That article references Warner's earlier November note
doing the client side with xmlrpclib:

    http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/a/python/2000/11/22/xmlrpcclient.html

Kudos to Fredrik for such a nice piece of software.  It is central to our
systems here at Mojam.

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at mojam.com)
Support the Mojam.com Affiliates Program: http://www.mojam.com/affl/
(847)971-7098



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Jan  5 10:02:49 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 16:02:49 +0100
Subject: OO in Python (was Re: Migrating to perl?)
References: <3Fa56.4580$of7.216286@news1.atl> <933fa1$j2i$1@newshost.accu.uu.nl> <ggd56.4652$of7.222552@news1.atl> <934ghv02hg0@news2.newsguy.com> <3284C8A2D218D5A4.904FDBE7634A2E21.13E03F073E968847@lp.airnews.net>
Message-ID: <934noe02o73@news2.newsguy.com>

"Cameron Laird" <claird at starbase.neosoft.com> wrote in message
news:3284C8A2D218D5A4.904FDBE7634A2E21.13E03F073E968847 at lp.airnews.net...
    [snip]
> >I don't think there is a really good "OO theory" text that does
> >not make some reasonably strong assumptions on the object model
    [snip]
> Does *Object-Oriented Software Construction*
> not make your "cut-off", Alex?

It's a really good book.  It also leans heavily on strong
assumptions on the object-model: compile-time static typing,
multiple-inheritance, classes, no multimethods (dispatching
only on the one object that 'receives the message'), etc.

Some of the assumptions fit in well with Python (mi, classes,
no multimethods), others go very much against its grain (no
compile-time static typing).


> Hmm; perhaps your examples answer my question.
> I'll counter, though, that even single-inheri-
> ted Python is quite a wonderful thing.

If one subscribes to this view, then maybe Liu's "Smalltalk,
Objects, and Design" may be suitable -- it was several years
ago that I read it, and my memory of it is not very sharp,
but, as I recall, it _was_ a really good book (some Smalltalk
orientation, of course; but if one can take deep differences
such as single vs multiple inheritance in stride, then a few
syntax-sugar issues &c might not matter all that much).

Instance data in Smalltalk are never visible outside the
object instance, so the OO style you'll learn from this is
going to be somewhat heavy with accessor/mutator methods.
But I guess that's all right, as long as one keeps it in
mind that this approach may not be optimal in Python.


Alex





From cpr at emsoftware.com  Sat Jan 13 12:47:36 2001
From: cpr at emsoftware.com (Chris Ryland)
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 17:47:36 GMT
Subject: Python language suggestion
References: <93l4ve$no3$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <3A5E1D2B.1DC60661@alcyone.com> <93m3r6$fuj$1@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net> <3A5E9E45.9A59848F@alcyone.com> <93pu3g$cem$1@newshost.accu.uu.nl>
Message-ID: <93q4bo$plc$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

In article <93pu3g$cem$1 at newshost.accu.uu.nl>,
  m.faassen at vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen) wrote:
>
> Anyway, if the proposal is what Andrew is suggesting, it's an
interesting
> idea, which I'm mulling over too. I don't know..
>
> One problem seems to be the string methods. What happens here?
>
> foo.' bar '.strip()

The foo.' bar ' resolves first and is evaluated, then the .strip()
method is called on the result. Shouldn't be confusing, though perhaps
visually it is.

> Also, where does it end? After all, not only strings can be used as
> dictionary keys:
>
> foo.1 = 2
>
> Though I just checked and setattr() certainly doesn't accept:
>
> settattr(a, 1, "foo")
>
> It does work through __dict__ though:
>
> a.__dict__[1] = "foo"
>
> print a.__dict__[1]
>
> But this seems to be of limited applicability; getattr only takes
strings
> too. :)

I wouldn't push it that far--the only point is syntactic sugar for
attributes whose names don't quite cut it lexically (reserved words,
embedded spaces, punctuation, etc.).

To me, document.page[1].textrun[0].'text style info' is much clearer
than document.page[1].textrun[0]['text style info']--you're clearly
selecting an object attribute, not just looking up something in a
dictionary.

I.e., it raises the level of discussion one whole abstraction.

That's the only reason I'm proposing it. As pure syntactic sugar, it's
probably not worth it. I think it adds something to the clarity of
expression.
--
Chris Ryland * Em Software, Inc. * www.emsoftware.com


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From ncmoon at cix.co.uk  Thu Jan 11 07:40:00 2001
From: ncmoon at cix.co.uk (Nick Moon)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 12:40 +0000 (GMT Standard Time)
Subject: Can't import crypt module under Python2.0
References: <mailman.979157714.18999.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <memo.20010111124051.13859B@greencheese.cix.co.uk>

In article <mailman.979157714.18999.python-list at python.org>, 
andreas at andreas-jung.com (Andreas Jung) wrote:

> 
> Maybe your Python 2.0 installation has been compiled without
> the crypt module. You can enable this module by modifying
> Modules/Setup.
> 
> Andreas 
> 

Thanks. Spot on. Just un-commented the line for crypt (it needs 
the -lcrypt option on my linux setup) and rebuilt and it works.
Also works in my embedded python program with a bit of mucking 
about.



Cheers


Nick.
 

-------------------------------------------
Nick Moon (Software Services)
=============================

e-mail: ncmoon at justclaim.co.uk
   web: www.justclaim.co.uk
-------------------------------------------


From richard_chamberlain at my-deja.com  Tue Jan 16 11:00:52 2001
From: richard_chamberlain at my-deja.com (richard_chamberlain at my-deja.com)
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 16:00:52 GMT
Subject: Stupid Newbie
References: <3A645C7B.248902E4@mdx.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <941r7e$qgv$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

Well you need to have it in your path - but you seem to already.

Try just typing python. You should get a prompt up and then try import
sys and see what happens.

pythonw starts up the python without the command window. Useful if your
doing gui applications or some such thing.

Richard

In article <3A645C7B.248902E4 at mdx.ac.uk>,
  DAVID FARRAR <david34 at mdx.ac.uk> wrote:
> Hi, I must be stupid.
>
> I am using WinNT at work (without administrator's rights) and having
> trouble making Python 2.0 work. It seems to work fine in the
interactive
> command line format, but I cannot run any module files.  The readme
file
> suggests that no extra configuration is necessary with WinNT.. .is
this
> true?
>
> I am using Notepad to write modules, and python.exe to run them (I
also
> have a file called Pythonw.exe, but this does not seem to do
anything.)
>
> An example which does not work is as follows:
> import sys
> print sys.argv
>
> To run this file (spam.py), I type:
> python spam.py a b c
>
> I get following message:
> File "<stdin>", line 1
> python spam.py a b c
> SyntaxError: Invalid syntax
>
> Any ideas??
>
> Ta,
> Dave
>
>


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From lvanderfeltz at knowledgetrax.com  Thu Jan  4 20:58:43 2001
From: lvanderfeltz at knowledgetrax.com (Lennard van der Feltz)
Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 01:58:43 GMT
Subject: AMK's ZODB package on Win32
References: <mailman.978625505.30132.python-list@python.org> <Nl556.119244$15.24450203@news1.rdc1.az.home.com> <slrn95a367.hp.amk@207-172-36-136.s136.tnt6.ann.va.dialup.rcn.com>
Message-ID: <nT956.119910$15.24582110@news1.rdc1.az.home.com>

Yes, I was referring to the zeod and configuration scripts (and also to the
zeo/ZEO name conflict mentioned in other posts). I actually used the
opportunity to get more familiar with running processes under Linux. I am
currently experimenting with Windows ZODB clients against a ZEO Linux
server. So far so good.

Lennard

"A.M. Kuchling" <amk at mira.erols.com> wrote in message
news:slrn95a367.hp.amk at 207-172-36-136.s136.tnt6.ann.va.dialup.rcn.com...
> On Thu, 04 Jan 2001 20:49:49 GMT,
> Lennard van der Feltz <lvanderfeltz at knowledgetrax.com> wrote:
> >I was able to use the ZODB part of the package without undue difficulty.
The
> >ZEO part of the package is tailored to Linux.
>
> Are you referring to the zeod script and the init.d script?  I don't
> think there's a technical reason preventing ZEO from working on
> Windows (asyncore is supposed to work on Windows, and that's the most
> critical piece).  But I have no idea how to write a Windows service;
> if someone wanted to do this, patches would gratefully be accepted.
>
> --amk




From cjensen at bioeng.ucsd.edu  Wed Jan 17 17:47:55 2001
From: cjensen at bioeng.ucsd.edu (Curtis Jensen)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 14:47:55 -0800
Subject: Best way to learn Python ?
References: <aa8a6t895h8l3k2q7nmhd25oh6m7haulj9@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3A66211B.F7F4F6BB@bioeng.ucsd.edu>

J5 wrote:
> 
> No schools teach it, so what books do you recommend ?

I had a class that used it here at UCSD.  It was a camparative languages
class.  The class' focus wasn't Python, but we did discuss it and had a
programming assingment in it.

Though, yes, it is not realy taught in schools.  But neither is Pearl,
Awk, Shell scripting, ML, Pascal (anymore), etc.

-- 
Curtis Jensen
cjensen at bioeng.ucsd.edu
http://www-bioeng.ucsd.edu/~cjensen/
FAX (425) 740-1451


From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Jan 29 08:50:08 2001
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 08:50:08 -0500
Subject: How do I pass an argument while I when running a script
References: <rped6.12388$KP3.4235886@news3.rdc1.on.home.com>
Message-ID: <3A757510.18555B2A@engcorp.com>

shaka wrote:
 [nothing whatsoever]

1. Please provide a little more detail in your questions.
   If you do, it will make our answers much more useful
   to you, and avoid wasting time as we make incorrect
   assumptions about what you are really asking.

2. Have you looked at the tutorial?  The answers to 
   your questions are probably answered reasonably at
   http://www.python.org/doc/current/tut/tut.html
   already.

I can't answer the question you pose, since I don't
know whether you are talking about passing arguments
from the command line, or within a script to a subroutine,
or perhaps in some other place.  Since the tutorial
answers these very clearly, perhaps you could start
there and ask here again if you have further trouble.


From dsh8290 at rit.edu  Fri Jan 19 11:47:40 2001
From: dsh8290 at rit.edu (D-Man)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 11:47:40 -0500
Subject: curses, python20/152, RH70/62, postgresql problems
In-Reply-To: <slrn96fd9n.52f.amk@207-172-36-33.s33.tnt6.ann.va.dialup.rcn.com>; from amk@mira.erols.com on Fri, Jan 19, 2001 at 03:18:16AM +0000
References: <94731d$9j4$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <slrn96fd9n.52f.amk@207-172-36-33.s33.tnt6.ann.va.dialup.rcn.com>
Message-ID: <20010119114740.E4478@harmony.cs.rit.edu>

On Fri, Jan 19, 2001 at 03:18:16AM +0000, A.M. Kuchling wrote:
| Let's tackle these one by one.
| On Thu, 18 Jan 2001 15:44:49 GMT, dubal at my-deja.com <dubal at my-deja.com> wrote:
| >We then tried to compile Py20 source on RH7. It
| >gives some LONG_BIT error and stops.
| 
| This is not a GCC problem; it is a glibc problem.  Red Hat has
| released an updated RPM for glibc, so installing it should let you
| compile Python 2.0 without difficulty.  Trying to use kgcc wouldn't
| help, because it's not the compiler's fault.
| 

Could you provide some more details on the glibc problem?  I used to
have RH7 and didn't find anything obviously wrong in the headers, so I
assumed it was the compiler that wasn't doing the comparison
correctly.  I solved the problem by manually editing the header (
<bits/xopen_lim.h> ).  I have since upgraded to Debian, but am still
curious.

Basically, for RH7 users : you can't use any rpms that people provide.
RH used an incompatible compiler, so you must compile stuff yourself.
(Or find RH7 specific rpms)  Also note that stuff compiled with newer
versions of gcc (3.0 when it is released) for newer dists (I assume RH
will use 3.0 when it is released) won't work on RH7 either.  Rpms made
for RH7 or RH6 (or anything older) won't work on the a dist with the
new compiler.

-D




From sdm7g at virginia.edu  Tue Jan 23 12:12:22 2001
From: sdm7g at virginia.edu (Steven D. Majewski)
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 12:12:22 -0500 (EST)
Subject: libraries=['m'] in config.py [Re: Python 2.1 alpha 1 released!]
In-Reply-To: <200101230333.WAA28376@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.NXT.4.21.0101231204010.227-100000@localhost.virginia.edu>


Is there a simple way (other than editing config.py) to remove the
effect of all of the "libraries=['m']" options from config.py ? 

This breaks the MacOSX build as there's no libm -- that functionality
is build into the System.framework .

Shouldn't these type of flags be acquired from configure or the
make environment somehow ? 

-- Steve Majewski 


( BTW: OSX build also needs a "-traditional-cpp" flag to get thru 
  compiling classobject.c without error. ) 







From R.Brodie at rl.ac.uk  Thu Jan  4 09:24:41 2001
From: R.Brodie at rl.ac.uk (Richard Brodie)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 14:24:41 -0000
Subject: Use of threading.Condition class
References: <mailman.978611884.20920.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <932135$lds@newton.cc.rl.ac.uk>

<vonWedel at lfpt.rwth-aachen.de> wrote in message
news:mailman.978611884.20920.python-list at python.org...

>I'm trying to pass data between threads A and B. A notifies B to produce something
>and now I want the reference to the produced instance back in thread A.
>The documentation for threading.Condition proposes something like
>
>    while not an_item_is_available():
>         cv.wait()
>
>I don't understand the while loop around  the cv.wait() statement -- wouldn't
>cv.wait() block anyway until cv.notify() has been called in the other thread?

It's traditional defensive programming, I think. The pthread specification
permits threads blocked on condition variables to wake up, in the equivalent
construct. There is some deep optimization reason why it's like that apparently.

I suspect that it isn't strictly required in Python: it's certainly not clear from
the documentation that spurious wakeups can happen, and a quick review
of the code seems to support this.




From danielk at aracnet.com  Fri Jan  5 10:31:56 2001
From: danielk at aracnet.com (Daniel Klein)
Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 07:31:56 -0800
Subject: Returning the path of a file
Message-ID: <mjob5tgge328h1sj94elg4b8sldrtteeus@4ax.com>

I've search the Beazley book as well as the Python reference materials
and can't find answers to these two basically simple questions:

1) How to return the path of a file previously opened in read-only
mode?

	myfile = open("foo")

I know I can do something like

	os.getcwd()

and this is where 'myfile' is, but if the file was opened by some
other method, I would like to be able to interrogate where it was
opened from.


2) Is there a builtin or method to delete a file or do I have to
execute an os process to do this?


experiencing-python-growing-pains-ly y'rs,
Daniel Klein
Portland, OR USA




From grey at despair.rpglink.com  Wed Jan  3 03:21:04 2001
From: grey at despair.rpglink.com (Steve Lamb)
Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 08:21:04 -0000
Subject: why no "do : until"?
References: <92jj3j$ff7$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <slrn94shbe.150.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <X8s36.2731$Qb7.305339@newsb.telia.net> <slrn94smds.150.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <FOt36.17$vd1.2224@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com> <slrn94t1vj.150.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <3A4E95FD.D6C737A7@engcorp.com> <slrn94tqkh.150.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <tpr46.7782$4c.597534@ruti.visi.com> <slrn954h6p.rgv.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <3A52AD6A.62D043A2@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <slrn955o7d.t0c.grey@teleute.rpglink.com>

On Tue, 02 Jan 2001 23:41:14 -0500, Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:
>You are a cowboy-hacker type of programmer, not one working as a serious
>software engineer in a group environment, right?  Or, if the latter, your
>management just hasn't caught on yet.

    Actually, the latter and management has caught on.  They like the work I
do.  That is because I don't spend days worrying about doing it one way or
another when the difference is so miniscule that it isn't worth worrying over.
 
    Like I said, how often is the code going to be changed versus getting the
work done.  Idealism is fine and dandy as long as it doesn't get in the way of
getting work done.  I'm firmly on the bazaar side, not the cathedral.  There
is nothing wrong with that simple construct.  Nothing.  Only to those who do
spend 3 days worrying about it instead of moving on to the next few hundreds
of lines is there something wrong.  

    "Well, concpetually the variable means two things, blah, blah, blah, yap,
yap, yap, yadda, yadda, yadda, yank, yank, yank."  I think my favorite was
that one shouldn't init variables to arbitrary values.  I laughed a good few
minutes for that one.  Should one init variables only to /random/ values?
That's the whole point of initing a variable, to set to to a known, arbitrary,
value.

    It is like the people who are complaining about a valid while 1:break loop
because it isn't obvious to the newbie maintainer.  Do you want a newbie
maintaining your code in the first place?  No.  Do you want someone who is
more worried about perfection in the code than working code?  No.

    Am I a "cowboy-hacker type of programmer?"  Better than either of the two
extremes, so... yes.  

-- 
         Steve C. Lamb         | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your
         ICQ: 5107343          | main connection to the switchboard of souls.
-------------------------------+---------------------------------------------


From chris at voodooland.net  Mon Jan  8 22:15:42 2001
From: chris at voodooland.net (Chris Watson)
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 21:15:42 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Web devel with python. Whats the best route?
In-Reply-To: <3A5A79C4.AF61F34E@bigfoot.de>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.21.0101082058380.66574-100000@open-systems.net>

On Tue, 9 Jan 2001, Gerhard [iso-8859-1] H?ring wrote:

> The original post most probably meant mod_python. Another Python-Apache
> module is mod_snake, just to add to the confusion :-) URLs are
> www.modpython.org, modsnake.sourceforge.net.

I *think* in my original post it was mod_python :) but during the course
of the thread it got twisted. Like in gradeschool when the teacher has you
form a line and whispers something to the kid in the back and then he/she 
tells the person in front and so on.. till it hits the person at the other
end is completely twisted and warped from the original statement :)

> But I agree that the old-fash CGI approach is the safest bet. But a
> larger web-application is much easier to program when it is a
> long-running process and not a CGI script. You also don't have to open
> database connections each time, load and parse config files each time.
> It *can* make a noticable speed difference when there is zero startup
> time in a script.

Well all my script is doing is the following:

#!/usr/local/bin/python

import os

host = raw_input("Enter a hostname: ");
os.spawnv(os.P_WAIT, '/usr/bin/scp', ('-v',
'user@%s:/home/user/TESTFILE' % host, '/tmp/TESTFILE'))
os.system("pico /tmp/TESTFILE")
os.spawnv(os.P_WAIT, '/usr/local/bin/rsync', ('rsync', '-v', '-p', '-e',
'ssh', '/tmp/TESTFILE', 'user@%s:/home/user/TESTFILE' % host))

I am keeping each task from my admin system as a simple single task python
script such as the above. I just wanted to html'ify them now and take
input from the user using a form instead of console input. This might show
you better all I want to do. I have been at python with ZERO previous
devel exp for 3 days now :)  So doing alot of things on the web are still
beyond my abilities right now. I may even be biting off more than I can
chew trying to webify things. I may need to just stick to doing the app in
console mode for now till I get a better grasp of things. But im not sure.

I appreciate everyones comments, ideas and suggestions. This list has
excellent people to ask questions and bounce ideas off of even for people
new to python and/or programming.

--
=============================================================================
-Chris Watson         (316) 326-3862 | FreeBSD Consultant, FreeBSD Geek 
Work:              scanner at jurai.net | Open Systems Inc., Wellington, Kansas
Home:  scanner at deceptively.shady.org | http://open-systems.net
=============================================================================
WINDOWS: "Where do you want to go today?"
LINUX: "Where do you want to go tomorrow?"
BSD: "Are you guys coming or what?"
=============================================================================
irc.openprojects.net #FreeBSD -Join the revolution!
ICQ: 20016186




From rupole at msn.com  Fri Jan 26 17:07:18 2001
From: rupole at msn.com (Roger Upole)
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 17:07:18 -0500
Subject: Scripting WMI with win32com
References: <uitn2sw1z.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com>
Message-ID: <uzUALT#hAHA.291@cpmsnbbsa09>

Here's an example of how to call the Terminate method of a Win32_Process
instance,
where proc is the process object:

meth = proc.Methods_('Terminate')
parms=meth.InParameters
parms.Properties_('Reason').Value=69
proc.ExecMethod_('Terminate',parms)

             Roger Upole

"David Bolen" <db3l at fitlinxx.com> wrote in message
news:uitn2sw1z.fsf at ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com...
> I was wondering if anyone has done scripting of WMI with win32com and
> dealt with making method calls after parsing the typelib?  I've been
> experimenting to see if it would be usable for management of LANs in
> the field, and in general it looks nice, but I run into some issues
> when trying to invoke methods on provider objects (such as the Win32
> provider).
>
> What seems to happen is that running makepy on the provider library
> identifies all of the SWbem* objects, but when I obtain a provider
> object, it just looks like an instance of SWbemObject.  That makes
> sense, but I'm having difficulty figuring out how to invoke a method
> on such an object cleanly and access properties.  It would appear that
> both VBScript and JScript have some special support for this, which
> involves looking at the Properties_ and (I suppose) Methods_
> collections when a direct notation (e.g., object.value or
> object.call()) is used.
>
> I had some issues with accessing properties too, but found some older
> threads that showed a function-call method of doing a name lookup on
> the Properties_ value (or via the Item call) which works fine.  But
> I'm not quite sure how to play with the methods.
>
> In some respects, it's almost easier if I use the dynamic approach
> since I'm getting caught by the actual Python objects generated by
> makepy - if it just passes the attribute and method operations through
> they work.  (But of course I'm sure I'll find something that won't handle
> the parameters or output right without the typelib).
>
> Thanks for any help.
>
> --
> -- David
> --
> /-----------------------------------------------------------------------\
>  \               David Bolen            \   E-mail: db3l at fitlinxx.com  /
>   |             FitLinxx, Inc.            \  Phone: (203) 708-5192    |
>  /  860 Canal Street, Stamford, CT  06902   \  Fax: (203) 316-5150     \
> \-----------------------------------------------------------------------/




From tim.one at home.com  Fri Jan 19 23:22:41 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 23:22:41 -0500
Subject: Tabbing/Spaces
In-Reply-To: <94as72$cudel$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCKEPHIJAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Robert L Hicks]
> ...
> While reading the reference manual it denotes that 8
> spaces is that standard for indentation.

[Tim]
> Where?  The Python compiler deals with a tab character by
> moving to the next multiple-of-8 column, but that's just
> a (hardcoded) fact.

[Emile van Sebille]
> From the Reference Manual:
>
> 2.1.7 Indentation
> Leading whitespace (spaces and tabs) at the beginning of a
> logical line is used to compute the indentation level of the
> line, which in turn is used to determine the grouping of
> statements.
>
> First, tabs are replaced (from left to right) by one to
> eight spaces such that the total number of characters up to
> and including the replacement is a multiple of eight (this
> is intended to be the same rule as used by Unix). The total
> number of spaces preceding the first non-blank character
> then determines the line's indentation. Indentation cannot
> be split over multiple physical lines using backslashes; the
> whitespace up to the first backslash determines the
> indentation.

As I said, that merely defines what the Python compiler *does* with a tab
character, which is just a fact.  It doesn't say anything about 8 columns
being "[a] standard for indentation" (which indeed it is not, but AFAIK the
Ref Man is silent on that issue).  So Robert is thinking of something else,
or neither of you knows how to read Dutch <wink>.




From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Wed Jan 24 10:20:34 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 16:20:34 +0100
Subject: win32com.client - need some help
References: <94mjj8$v3g$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <94mrs102b3i@news2.newsguy.com>

<zippy1984 at my-deja.com> wrote in message news:94mjj8$v3g$1 at nnrp1.deja.com...
> I am trying to port some VB code to Python, but I have a problem
> with code that passes Objects by reference....
>
> VB:
>    Dim ob as someObject
>    Dim dic as IDictionary
>    Dim i as Long
>
>    ob = CreateObject("some.object.1")
>    ob.getDictionary dic  ' set "dic" to point to the "ob" dictionary
>    i = dic.getValue("xyzzy")

Pretty unusual VB usage, but, yes, it does happen.  It's unclear
to me whether the single argument of method getDictionary is
[out] or [in,out] -- presumably just [out]...?  VB is often
not crystal-clear about such things (which yet ARE crucial --
resource leaks are possible if one gets confused) and looking
at the IDL for the type library in question is quite a good idea
(VB Professional, I think, comes with the "OLE Viewer" which,
among many other precious uses, lets one look at the IDL of any
type library; if it doesn't, then get the Platform SDK download,
THAT one surely does come with oleview.exe and it's free, though
rather big to get).


> Python:
>    import win32com.client
>    ob = win32com.client.Dispatch("some.object.1")  # ok

Do make sure makepy.py HAS been run on the typelibrary whence
some.object comes from, though.  To ensure that, you may use:

    import win32com.client.gencache
    ob = win32com.client.gencache.EnsureDispatch("some.object.1")

this will generate the 'makepy support' on-the-fly if needed
and feasible (one time only, of course; it then gets cached to
suitable disk files, and reused in any future run).


>    # I can now use "ob" to call methods that returns infomation
>    # by the return value.
>    #... then how do I get the dictionary?

Once makepy has operated on the type library, [out] arguments
are transformed into return values, so:

    dic = ob.getDictionary()

would work if [out] is indeed the argument's direction.  If
[in, out], then you will also need to pass the argument
explicitly (for the [in] part), as well as getting the resulting
new value as a return value from the method (for the [out]).


Alex





From teep at inet.co.th  Wed Jan  3 21:17:05 2001
From: teep at inet.co.th (Prateep Siamwalla)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 09:17:05 +0700
Subject: Iterating over multiple lists (a newbie question)
References: <3a539f3a.445366109@localhost>
Message-ID: <930mb2$u7p$1@news.inet.co.th>

This is what I usually do when I run into your situation

a = [1,2,3,4,5]
b = ['a','b','c','d','e']

c = zip(a,b)
for i in c:
    print i[0],i[1]


Victor Muslin <victor at prodigy.net> wrote in message
news:3a539f3a.445366109 at localhost...
> This may be rather silly, but I can't think of a clever way...
>
> To traverse a single list the code is:
>
> for item in list:
> print item
>
> However, if there are multiple lists (of the same length) is there a
> cleverer way to do the following:
>
> for i in range(0,len(list1)):
> print list1[i], list2[i]
>
> I would like something like this (which obviously does not work):
>
> for one,two in list1, list2:
> print one,two
>
> TIA




From embed at geocities.com  Mon Jan 22 08:42:22 2001
From: embed at geocities.com (Warren Postma)
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 08:42:22 -0500
Subject: What does Python do
References: <94gmeu$4fc$1@sooner.brightok.net>
Message-ID: <bPWa6.5814$Oe.27595@tor-nn1.netcom.ca>

> What kinds of programs can you make with Python.
> Does anyone have some examples.

Search www.freshmeat.net or read comp.lang.python.announce







From quinn at regurgitate.ugcs.caltech.edu  Sat Jan 20 22:01:16 2001
From: quinn at regurgitate.ugcs.caltech.edu (Quinn Dunkan)
Date: 21 Jan 2001 03:01:16 GMT
Subject: [newbie]How to write lines of code in stdout ( like ksh -x option)?
References: <94cftu$np4$1@front5m.grolier.fr>
Message-ID: <slrn96kk7s.9v2.quinn@regurgitate.ugcs.caltech.edu>

On Sat, 20 Jan 2001 17:55:12 +0100, Pierre-Louis Gaucheron
<pilou_g at club-internet.fr> wrote:
>Hello,
>I am looking for a simple way to write each line interpreted on standard
>output for debugging purpose like the set -x option in Korn shell.
>I didn't find this information in any documentation, so here I am.
>Thanks

See the 'sys.settrace()' and 'pdb' documentation.

#!/usr/local/bin/python
import sys, linecache

def trace(fr, evt, arg):
    if evt == 'line':
        f = fr.f_code.co_filename
        n = fr.f_lineno
        print '%s:%d -> ' %(f, n), linecache.getline(f, n),
    return trace

def main():
    print 'hello'
    x = 10
    y = x * 2
    print y

if __name__ == '__main__':
    sys.settrace(trace)
    main()


From tony at lsl.co.uk  Fri Jan 19 05:47:30 2001
From: tony at lsl.co.uk (Tony J Ibbs (Tibs))
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 10:47:30 -0000
Subject: Automatic Documentation Tools?
In-Reply-To: <yv23deh47q5.fsf@lionsp093.lion-ag.de>
Message-ID: <006f01c08205$38dcdda0$f05aa8c0@lslp7o.int.lsl.co.uk>

Terry Hancock <hancock at earthlink.net> writes:
> I've seen a number of automatically generated documentation
> on the web for C/C++ source code.  Is there anything like
> this for Python?  I've taken over documenting a piece of
> code, and it would be nice to at list have a list of classes,
> attributes, and methods from which to work.  Seems like it
> ought to be automateable, but I don't know the fastest way
> to do it.

Well, there are two answers to that.


Answer number 1: the technology of the past

There are several tools out there that look through Python code for doc
strings, etc., and interpret them using StructuredText conventions,
including at least:
* Crystal (http://www.btinternet.com/~tratt/comp/python/crystal/)
* HappyDoc (http://happydoc.sourceforge.net/)
* pythondoc (http://starship.python.net/crew/danilo/pythondoc/)
  (the successor to gendoc)

For a slightly different approach, see Ka-Ping Yee's htmldoc, near the
end of the page at http://www.lfw.org/python/ - this requires
downloading two files. If it weren't for answer number 2 below, this
might be the nearest to what you want.


Answer number 2: the technology yet to come

Attempts are being made to produce "standard" tools for doing just this
task. To find out exactly what is going on, you need to follow the
Doc-SIG (http://www.python.org/sigs/doc-sig/ - but note that the
description of current state at that page is a bit out-of-date).

Here's a summary:

* Ka-Ping Yee has just (literally in the last few days) released pydoc
("a documentation generator that works from the command line, in the
Python interpreter, and as a web server in the background"). This can be
found at the very end of his page http://www.lfw.org/python/, and is
almost certainly what you *actually* want, at least for now. Be aware
that it is new software, and still being improooooved (although that
doesn't stop it from being wonderful as it stands right now, but it does
mean you should check back for updates of the source code periodically).
Unofficially ('cos I don't get to make the decision!) I would expect
this to be in Python 2.1. Note that it definitely works with 1.5.2,
though, 'cos I've tried it. Oh, and it actually *includes* htmldoc (see
answer number 1 above), so you can't lose.

* Somewhere in the aether is the tool I'm working on, which will do the
complementary job of parsing (a variant of) StructuredText from Python
docstrings so that they can be emitted as HTML, XML, TeX or whatever.
Unfortunately, that's still vapourware, at least for this week, and
probably for next week as well.


Hope that helps.
Tibs

--
Tony J Ibbs (Tibs)      http://www.tibsnjoan.co.uk/
Give a pedant an inch and they'll take 25.4mm
(once they've established you're talking a post-1959 inch, of course)
My views! Mine! Mine! (Unless Laser-Scan ask nicely to borrow them.)




From katz at Glue.umd.edu  Wed Jan 24 20:28:12 2001
From: katz at Glue.umd.edu (Roy Katz)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 20:28:12 -0500
Subject: function attributes are like function objects
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0101242015290.2444-100000@z.glue.umd.edu>

...in that they carry information which trancends their execution. 

Reading the 'function attributes' thread and looking at users' needs... I
have to ask... why function attributes?  why not function *objects*?
Granted! we have to instantiate function objects -- because we have no
true method for writing class functions.  I'm getting confused on 
the (narrow AFAIK) difference between classes and functions with
attributes. Consider!


def f():    # (1) functions with attributes!

 { 'data'=1, 'subfunction'=lambda: pass }   # proposed way to make attrs
 pass

- vs -      

class G:    # (2) classes with methods! 

 data = 1
 def subfunction(self): pass

g = G()

- usage -

f.data = 3;  f.subfunction()   # invokes attribute of f()
g.data = 3;  g.subfunction()   # invokes g.subfunction()



::

Presto! instant TMTOWTDI powder.  That **scares** me. 
The only substantial difference I see between the two methods (heh, I'm
overloading the word one to many times here) is that (2) passes self to
its instance attributes whereas (1) does not.   So at the risk of
having overlooked something substantial, I ask:   since we can implement
functors, what's the point of giving functions attributes?



IMHO -- maybe we could use the non-passing-self nature of 
functions-with-subfunction-attributes to find a way to finally do class
methods. 



/R


 





From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Sat Jan 27 11:11:15 2001
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 16:11:15 +0000
Subject: . Python 2.1 function attributes
In-Reply-To: <20010127170031.P962@xs4all.nl>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0101270135190.7677-100000@y.glue.umd.edu>
 <mailman.980593892.725.python-list@python.org>
 <$5A+ZwAGjtc6EwE0@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <20010127170031.P962@xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <dI9LLpAjMvc6EwCC@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>

In message <20010127170031.P962 at xs4all.nl>, Thomas Wouters
<thomas at xs4all.net> writes
>> mmmhhhh :( what happens with
>> 
>> def f() >> x:
>>         return 1
>> 
>> 
>> def f() >> x:
>>         y=2
>>         return y
>> 
>> seems to me that having multiple ways of doing return is a bad idea
>
>You forgot to quote the clue:
>
>> > hoping-a-truly-bad-idea-adds-some-perspective<wink>-ly y'rs  - tim
>
>Tim wasn't serious, the syntax hasn't even been proposed. (At least, I
>haven't seen the proposal. Then again, maybe Barry did propose it, and all
>those mail delays on python-dev were an attempt to get it approved and
>checked in before anyone oculd complain :-)
>
>That-was-a-joke-too-in-case-you-wondered-ly y'rs,
yes I figured it was a bit funny, but nastier things are proposed and
aren't laughed off. When we start to get typing in python 3000 I bet
there'll be constructs similar in spirit to the above devoted to the
type of the return
-why don't we have $ and @ and \ operators-ly yrs- 
Robin Becker



From gjc at netspace.net.au  Thu Jan 25 07:57:37 2001
From: gjc at netspace.net.au (Graeme Cross)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 12:57:37 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: python and parrallele port !
References: <94nc64$de9$1@wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <94p7s1$7aj$1@otis.netspace.net.au>

On Wed, 24 Jan 2001 20:58:26 +0100, yves.rouquier <yves.rouquier at wanadoo.fr>
wrote:

>hello !
>Can i command electronic card on parrallele port in python ?
>Bye !
>

Yes, but it would help if you told us what operating system you are using
as this is a *very* O/S specific question.

Here are two relatively simple solutions for Linux & MS Windows:

1. Linux
Grab the 'par' driver from http://www.BitWizard.nl/par/
Then use regular file I/O to control the port bits that you are interested in.

2. MS Windows
Get one of the I/O device drivers listed at http://www.lvr.com/parport.htm.
I have found MapMemPlus (http://www.einev.ch/references/mondada/mmp/) to 
work well for WinNT.
Then use calldll (from http://nightmare.com/software.html) to call the I/O
driver DLL directly from Python.

Cheers
Graeme

-- 
Graeme Cross <gcross at netspace.net.au>


From cerutti at together.net  Mon Jan 29 10:40:45 2001
From: cerutti at together.net (Neil Cerutti)
Date: 29 Jan 2001 15:40:45 GMT
Subject: Tkinter: manipulating data in 'entry' widgets.
References: <mailman.980556332.23522.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrn97b457.29.cerutti@fiad06.norwich.edu>

jerry keeney posted:
>Hopefully this is'nt a repeat of an oft discussed
>item:
>
>I have a Tkinter program with 3 entry widgets.  I
>would like to take the numbers entered in the first
>two, total them and display them in the 3rd (or even
>just as a label).
>
>I believe the idea is to capture the entry with a
>DoubleVar, but beyond that I'm not sure.  

I don't think you need a special Var if you use polling. Call a
method of the parent window that also calls itself using the
.after method.


  def pollEntries(self):
    if self.entry1.get() || self.entry2.get():
      self.updateEntries()
    self.after(250, self.pollEntries()

This assumes your window object has two Entry widgets called
entry1 and entry2, you started the ball rolling by calling
pollEntries, and you provide an updateEntries routine that does
that presumably write to entry3.

-- 
Neil Cerutti <cerutti at together.net>


From syver at NOSPAMcyberwatcher.com  Thu Jan 11 08:04:36 2001
From: syver at NOSPAMcyberwatcher.com (Syver Enstad)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 14:04:36 +0100
Subject: ActivePython2.0 - Server Side objects for ASP problem
References: <93j0qi$7cv$1@bob.news.rcn.net> <tK876.2719$24.38513@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com> <93k6k5$1g7$1@bob.news.rcn.net>
Message-ID: <fci76.2824$k25.39918@news1.oke.nextra.no>

I've successfully mixed languages with Python ASP, tell me if you want to
know how.

"Satheesh Babu" <vsbabu at erols.com> wrote in message
news:93k6k5$1g7$1 at bob.news.rcn.net...
> Hi Steve,
>
> That worked! Thanks...
>
> My actual requirement is not to gather HTML pages (I've one for that in
100%
> python ASP
> and by setting a BASE HREF, it works fine). I have this proprietary
software
> from a vendor
> which runs a server on some port and it accepts some commands on that
port.
> My requirement
> is to generate these commands on the fly, send it to this server and get
> response, from many
> ASP pages. I don't know how to do network programming in ASP/VBScript. In
> Python I've
> already written something which works, using socket library. My initial
> thought was to embed
> that Python code into my ASP scripts - won't work since ASP (atleast my
> installation) doesn't
> allow mixing of different languages. Making a COM object on the server is
> also beyond me.
> So, I got this idea and was just checking it out.
>
> Many thanks again
>
>
> --
> v.s.babu
> vsbabu at erols.com
> http://vsbabu.csoft.net
> "Steve Holden" <sholden at holdenweb.com> wrote in message
> news:tK876.2719$24.38513 at e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com...
> > "Satheesh Babu" <vsbabu at erols.com> wrote in message
> > news:93j0qi$7cv$1 at bob.news.rcn.net...
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > I'm trying to use a server side python object to be called from a
> VBScript
> > > ASP code.
> > > It works nicely for simple things. When I try to use urllib functions,
I
> > get
> > > an error. Any
> > > idea? The second function works nicely. I'm using Win98, PWS with
> > Build202.
> > > I'll try
> > > on NT4.0 IIS tomorrow. Any help is greatly appreciated.
> > >
> > > ----------------- ASP file -----------------
> > > <% @LANGUAGE="VBSCRIPT" %>
> > > <!--#include file="pymod.asp"-->
> > > <%= SlurpURL("http://vsbabu.csoft.net/") %>
> > > <%= CapitalizeIt("the first letter should be capitalized") %>
> > >
> > > ----------------pymod.asp------------------
> > > <script language='python' runat='server'>
> > > from urllib import *
> > > from string import *
> >
> > # Is this safe? from module import * is often not a good idea unless
> > # the module has been designed with that in mind...
> >
> > >
> > > def SlurpURL(i_url):
> > >     f = urlopen(i_url)
> >
> > # Try changing preceding line to read f = urlopen(str(i_url))
> >
> > >     o_data = f.read()
> > >     f.close()
> > >     return o_data
> > >
> > > def CapitalizeIt(i_str)
> > >     return capitalize(i_str)
> >
> > # Maybe this would need to be return capitalize(str(i_str)) as well
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > </script>
> > > ------------------ error message -----------------
> > > Python ActiveX Scripting Engine error '80020009'
> > >
> > > Traceback (innermost last): File "<Script Block >", line 4, in
SlurpURL
> f
> > =
> > > urlopen(i_url) File "c:\python20\lib\urllib.py", line 61, in urlopen
> > return
> > > _urlopener.open(url) File "c:\python20\lib\urllib.py", line 166, in
open
> > > return getattr(self, name)(url) File "c:\python20\lib\urllib.py", line
> > 248,
> > > in open_http host, selector = url ValueError: unpack sequence of wrong
> > size
> > >
> > > ?
> > >
> > > host, selector = url
> > >
> > > ======================
> >
> > With the changes above I get *something* other than an error message in
my
> > browser window, but of course because you aren't re-interpreting the
HTML
> as
> > you pass it through, all the links are broken and no graphics appear.
> >
> > You might want to consider adding a <BASE> tag to your page, quoting the
> > original URL and therefore persuading your browser to interpret embedded
> > URLs correctly.
> >
> > regards
> >  Steve
> >
> >
>
>




From jcollins at endtech.com  Wed Jan  3 11:54:49 2001
From: jcollins at endtech.com (Jeff Collins)
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2001 09:54:49 -0700 (MST)
Subject: time.mktime bug in 2.0?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0101030936240.7377-100000@euclid.endtech.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0101030941090.7377-100000@euclid.endtech.com>

Let me add something to my response.  That change occurred for Python 1.6
(just looked it up in the CVS repository).  Several other changes of this
sort were introduced then - see http://www.python.org/1.6.

On Wed, 3 Jan 2001, Jeff Collins wrote:

> 
> The argument is a 9-tuple:
> 
> time.mktime((1999,12,21,0,0,0,0,0,0))
> 
> 
> On Wed, 3 Jan 2001 wmiller34 at my-deja.com wrote:
> 
> > I'm getting this "TypeError" when I use mktime in 2.0.  It works in
> > 1.52.  Any ideas?
> > 
> > >>> import time
> > >>> t = time.mktime(1999,12,21,0,0,0,0,0,0)
> > Traceback (innermost last):
> >   File "<interactive input>", line 1, in ?
> > TypeError: mktime requires exactly 1 argument; 9 given
> > 
> > 
> > -Walter
> > 
> > 
> > Sent via Deja.com
> > http://www.deja.com/
> > 
> 
> 

-- 
Jeffery D. Collins, Ph.D.
Sr. Software Developer
Endeavors Technology, Inc.




From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Jan 12 04:41:44 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 10:41:44 +0100
Subject: Web devel with python. Whats the best route?
References: <93hfp1013sm@news2.newsguy.com>, <93cqvi0191h@news1.newsguy.com> <mailman.978910629.6814.python-list@python.org> <mailman.978975978.19612.python-list@python.org> <spenrose-E755EB.22423209012001@news.dnai.com> <mailman.979287866.16015.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <93mjjj0fch@news1.newsguy.com>

"Moshe Zadka" <moshez at zadka.site.co.il> wrote in message
news:mailman.979287866.16015.python-list at python.org...
    [snip]
> Another affirmative for my "every Python programmer wrote a web
> development framework. Sometimes two."

Except that YAPTU isn't (a 'web development framework') -- it's
a small templating utility.  It becomes part of web development
if you use it to produce HTML to be output from (e.g.) a CGI
script, just like, say, the '+' operator becomes part of such
a framework if you're using it to concatenate two strings in
the relevant context.  Then you switch template files, and out
comes a CSV presentation textfile (from the same Python script
that produces a certain table of results), ready to pump into
your favourite DB or spreadsheet program; switch again, and a
Postscript file ready for printing could be the output -- each
of these _might_ have something to do with the web, but it's
a bit more likely to be used more locally.


> For those who need the reference: "Every scheme programmer wrote
> an object system. Sometimes two."
>
> Equivalents for C/C++/Perl/Java would be appreciated <wink>

C++ => memory management framework (most likely reference
        counted, of course); this one's too easy:-).


Alex





From moshez at zadka.site.co.il  Sat Jan  6 05:49:05 2001
From: moshez at zadka.site.co.il (Moshe Zadka)
Date: Sat,  6 Jan 2001 12:49:05 +0200 (IST)
Subject: Migrating to perl?
In-Reply-To: <HYs56.1065$4Z.78027@news2.atl>
References: <HYs56.1065$4Z.78027@news2.atl>, <ggd56.4652$of7.222552@news1.atl>, <3Fa56.4580$of7.216286@news1.atl> <933fa1$j2i$1@newshost.accu.uu.nl> <mailman.978712273.28922.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <20010106104905.BD60CA84F@darjeeling.zadka.site.co.il>

On Fri, 5 Jan 2001, "Joel Ricker" <joejava at dragonat.net> wrote:

> I kind of felt that way too but the book I was reading was taking an almost
> paranoid approach to OO (he admitted it as such) and so I was going with
> internal only variables.  I'm too new to OO to be deviating from what I'm
> being taught without as the book said, "Thou shalt screwe things up".   ;)

It's all right to be paranoid: just not in Python. If you want paranoid
OO, look up Sather. It's really a nice language, which is really
really "safe" OO. It's got a lot in common in Python, as well as
some distinguishing features. Personally, I consider Sather to be
much superior to Eiffel, which has similar goals. Bad examples of
lanuguages to learn OO from include Java and C++ -- the object model
is so screwed up, you better learn first a sensible one, and then
understand the damaged ones relative to a good mental model.

Personally, for real world programming, I find paranoia is good
in the correct places. Always test user input for sanity, always
check return values, keep track of what exceptions you need to 
catch. Being paranoid about *users* of the code is usually more
trouble then it's worth, and usually annoys the users more then
helps them.

-- 
Moshe Zadka <sig at zadka.site.co.il>
This is a signature anti-virus. 
Please stop the spread of signature viruses!



From jimd at vega.starshine.org  Mon Jan  1 19:21:08 2001
From: jimd at vega.starshine.org (Jim Dennis)
Date: 2 Jan 2001 00:21:08 GMT
Subject: Bug? in os.chown()
References: <3A4FC0DD.530F90E6@ev1.net> <92q08p$1doj$1@news.cybercity.dk>
Message-ID: <slrn9527nf.m6c.jimd@vega.starshine.org>

In article <92q08p$1doj$1 at news.cybercity.dk>, Erwin S. Andreasen wrote:

>On Sun, 31 Dec 2000 17:27:25 -0600, David Lambert wrote:
>> I am running Python 2.0 on Mandrake Linux 7.2 and have come across an
>> apparent anomaly with os.chown(). Running a process as root, I can
>> change any file's ownerships apart from symbolic links. No error is
>> given, but the ownership refuses to be changed. Is this a feature or a
>> bug? How do I change a symbolic link's owner and group?

> Just about any operation on a symbolic link (i.e. open, chdir etc. but not
> unlink) will act on the file linked to instead. So you are really changing the
> permission on the target file. (Note, however, that while the system call
> chown follows the link, the GNU chown program does NOT follow the link and
> changes the owner of the link -- at least with 4.0.35 version of fileutils).

> There are a number of l* system calls that act on the link rather than the
> thing being linked to (lstat, lchown). However, Python doesn't implement
> lchown yet (at least not in Python 2.0b1).

> So, I suppose you could use system() to run GNU chown on the file (you could
> give it the --no-dereference flag to be sure, see man 1 chown) -- it's only
> necessary to do it when the target is a symbolic link (you can check using
> os.path.islink). Not a very portable solution though.

 Looking at my O'Reilly/Lutz Pocket Reference I see that there is a
 readlink() method somewhere under the os module.  It wasn't clear
 whether they meant os.readlink() or os.path.readlink() (from the 
 text of the book).  I've figured out that os.readlink() works.

 It appears that os.readlink() only follows one level of linkage.

  (I tested this by preparing a simple set of symlinks using:
  	cd tmp && touch foo && ln -s foo lfoo; ln -s lfoo llfoo
	ln -s llfoo lllfoo 
   and then interactively importing os and playing with it; duh).

 So I guess you need to do something like:

 	fname="./lllfoo"
	while os.path.islink(fname):
		fname=os.readlink(fname)

 (which works for my test case, though I notice that it 
 stripped the leading ./ from my name;  I guess it does some
 sort of path canonicalization).

 ... is there a better way?  Is there a "readlinks()" method
 that automates this process?  Does this throw an exception
 if the link is dangling, or if it is circular, or if it
 "might" be circular because it exceeds some maximum?  Should
 I wrap os.readlink() in a try: except:?  What are the exceptions
 that os.readlink() can throw?  What are the exceptions that 
 os.path.islink() could throw?  (ENOENT, and EPERM seem like
 obvious OS errors; but I know know how to find the Python 
 exception names that correspond to these system errors).



From phrxy at csv.warwick.ac.uk  Tue Jan 30 19:52:24 2001
From: phrxy at csv.warwick.ac.uk (John J. Lee)
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 00:52:24 +0000
Subject: win32 DLL import problem
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SOL.4.30.0101292327240.8722-100000@mimosa.csv.warwick.ac.uk>
References: <Pine.SOL.4.30.0101291323540.148-100000@mimosa.csv.warwick.ac.uk> <KsfjsLA8YYd6Ew7q@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <Pine.SOL.4.30.0101292327240.8722-100000@mimosa.csv.warwick.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.30.0101310034050.25490-100000@mimosa.csv.warwick.ac.uk>

On Mon, 29 Jan 2001, John J. Lee wrote:
[...]
> Having got past that one, a slightly tougher one: my copy of TableIO
> (compiled and run on the same two machines mentioned above), works on our
> NT machine, but hangs the Python interpreter shell on our win95 laptop.
> Now, I know that since (apparently) I linked against crtdll.dll rather
> than msvcrt.dll by omitting -mno-cygwin somewhere, bad things may happen
> as a result.  But do these bad things really happen on win95 but not NT??
[...]

Oops.  I used 'cygwin' rather than 'mingw32' as the distutils compiler
class.  It works now.  Apparently the bad things do only happen on NT in
this particular case.


John



From andrefor at axionet.com  Sun Jan 28 22:27:35 2001
From: andrefor at axionet.com (Andre Fortin)
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 19:27:35 -0800
Subject: How to call a class method from a string representing a class name
References: <3A745F5E.5F035F1D@axionet.com> <951p2j0e8@news2.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <3A74E327.C02A86FC@axionet.com>

Alex Martelli wrote:

> So, a solution might be:
> 
> try:
>     callable = test.myFunc
> except (NameError,AttributeError):
>     pass
> else:
>     callable('Some Text')
> 

Using "test.myFunc" returns a "AttributeError: myFunc", since 
"test" is a string. With your suggestion though, here is 
a way better snippet of code:


import sys
import test

className = 'test'

try:
    sys.modules[className].myFunc('Some text')
except KeyError:
    pass


Very clean. It avoids both the globals() and vars() calls.


> (a KeyError raised inside 'callable' in your case
> is silently caught and hidden -- IS that what you want?)

In my case, yes. In this snippet context, what counts is the existence
of 
the "test" module.

Thank you for your help!

-- 

Andre


From pekko at iki.fi  Tue Jan 23 15:38:07 2001
From: pekko at iki.fi (Pekko Piirola)
Date: 23 Jan 2001 20:38:07 GMT
Subject: Compiling Python 2.0 in DEC Alpha?
References: <slrn96r2j8.g68.pekko@soul.helsinki.fi> <94kg34$glk$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <slrn96rqtf.l3v.pekko@tekno.helsinki.fi>

Donn Cave <donn at u.washington.edu> wrote:
> It builds OK for me on roughly the same platform (4.0D).  Standard
> advice for anyone with a build problem is to make sure to start over
> with a virgin source directory, but I have a couple of specific ideas
> for you.

Thanks, it compiles now!  The problems were the flag '-std' and the
conflicting thread definitions.  But they really told me to use all of
those thread options in the README..
 
> Any damage in the compile options will have numerous unpleasant side
> effects; configure will run without any apparent problems, but not
> "nicely".

Well, yes..  I noticed that today.

-- 
Pekko


From amk at mira.erols.com  Thu Jan  4 18:34:42 2001
From: amk at mira.erols.com (A.M. Kuchling)
Date: 4 Jan 2001 23:34:42 GMT
Subject: why no "do : until"?
References: <92jj3j$ff7$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <slrn94shbe.150.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <X8s36.2731$Qb7.305339@newsb.telia.net> <slrn94smds.150.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <FOt36.17$vd1.2224@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com> <slrn94t1vj.150.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <3A4E95FD.D6C737A7@engcorp.com> <slrn94tqkh.150.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <tpr46.7782$4c.597534@ruti.visi.com> <slrn954h6p.rgv.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <3A52AD6A.62D043A2@engcorp.com> <3A534367.36B1FD18@uswest.net> <slrn957j19.go.amk@207-172-36-81.s81.tnt6.ann.va.dialup.rcn.com> <3A53F4B1.6227D241@uswest.net> <931gf302dsi@news2.newsguy.com> <932d0k$ita$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <slrn95a2u4.hp.amk@207-172-36-136.s136.tnt6.ann.va.dialup.rcn.com>

On 4 Jan 2001 17:48:04 GMT, Donn Cave <donn at u.washington.edu> wrote:
>... hardly a
>day will pass when there isn't someone isn't pushing another syntactic
>change to the language, but none of it is going anywhere.

Yes.  I've argued in the past that we should just leave Python's
syntax alone; all the proposed changes usually add 1% more
functionality and aren't worth the pain.  Leave fancy changes to the
hypothetical Python3K or some other future descendent of Python, and
just work on the infrastructure around the language.

--amk


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sat Jan 13 04:25:57 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 10:25:57 +0100
Subject: is Python fully object oriented ?
References: <3A5E5C21.3E036BFE@intelligenesis.net>, <20010110184830.13286.00000826@ng-fg1.aol.com> <mailman.979367056.4863.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <93p7af012ue@news1.newsguy.com>

"Moshe Zadka" <moshez at zadka.site.co.il> wrote in message
news:mailman.979367056.4863.python-list at python.org...
    [snip]
> > * Can a class declare a priviledged API availalbe only to subclasses?
>
> Note that Knuth regrets adding "protected" to C++. It would take a

Stroustrup.  Nitpicking just because everything else you said is SO right!-)


Alex





From jkndeja at my-deja.com  Thu Jan 25 10:12:27 2001
From: jkndeja at my-deja.com (jkndeja at my-deja.com)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 15:12:27 GMT
Subject: python and parrallele port !
References: <94nc64$de9$1@wanadoo.fr> <94p7s1$7aj$1@otis.netspace.net.au>
Message-ID: <94pfoh$fvs$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

As posted previously, I have done some work on a C extension module to
_directly_ controlling an LPT port (ie. setting the port pins Hi and
Low), if that's what you want.

The eventual aim is to have a class definition, but at the moment it
works something like this:

    import directlpt

    in = directlpt.inb(0x378)    # read from I/O address 0x378
    directlpt.outb(0x379, 0xaa)  # write 0xaa to I/O address 0x379

The good news: the module compiles and runs under (80x86)Linux _and_
Windows (95, 98, ME I believe - Not NT or W2000).

This is work under progress - see a download file at

    http://www.nicorp.f9.co.uk/download/python-ioport.zip

for an older version. And let me know if this is what you're after, I
have more recent versions which I haven't updated yet. Knowing that
people find it of interest helps ;-)

I also ought to point out that the Vaults of Parnassus archive points
to something very similar, which compiles under Linux only. Do a search
for 'ioport', IIRC.

    jon N


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From max at alcyone.com  Thu Jan 11 15:52:59 2001
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 12:52:59 -0800
Subject: Python language suggestion
References: <93l4ve$no3$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <3A5E1D2B.1DC60661@alcyone.com>

Chris Ryland wrote:

> This migh sound radical, but has anyone ever entertained the idea that
> foo.'bar bletch' might be a useful and logical extension of Python's
> current attribute selection machinery?
> 
> I realize that foo['bar bletch'] is just as good for dictionary-like
> objects, but foo.'bar bletch' would be very much more attractive in
> one
> application I'm considering (which must use AppleScript-style
> attributes, which can include spaces),and it seemed like a general
> improvement to allow an arbitrary (constant) string after an
> attribute "oeprator" (.).

This does not sound like a good idea.  Indexes of an object which
supports __getitem__ are totally independent of the attributes which
that object may have; comingling them with a similar syntax doesn't seem
like it would gain anything except confusion.

I mean, really -- is it that much easier to write object.key instead of
object[key]?

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, US / 37 20 N 121 53 W / ICQ16063900 / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ But when I reached the finished line / Young black male
\__/ Ice Cube
    Alcyone Systems / http://www.alcyone.com/
 Alcyone Systems, San Jose, California.


From grey at despair.rpglink.com  Wed Jan  3 15:35:31 2001
From: grey at despair.rpglink.com (Steve Lamb)
Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 20:35:31 -0000
Subject: why no "do : until"?
References: <92jj3j$ff7$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <92m9pm$d19$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <B3z36.122$9s1.18804@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com> <3A4EC5B1.8912E571@engcorp.com> <x8G36.156$9s1.31209@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com> <3A4F4B4D.ECD6B172@engcorp.com> <rBr46.7783$4c.597712@ruti.visi.com> <slrn9550fe.rvi.kc5tja@garnet.armored.net> <dWG46.7998$4c.647371@ruti.visi.com> <slrn956io0.t0c.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <3A536E62.81BCD7EB@uswest.net>
Message-ID: <slrn95738i.3mc.grey@teleute.rpglink.com>

On Wed, 03 Jan 2001 11:24:34 -0700, Bjorn Pettersen <pbjorn at uswest.net> wrote:
>So then you'd also write:

>do {
>    something;
>}
>while (condition);

>to be consistent?  Seems ugly and inconsistent to me (the else isn't a
>statement, it's part of the if ;-)

    I don't write in a language that has a do/while (incidentally I feel that
all loops outside of while are superfulous, but that's just me).  Secondly it
isn't statements that are intended, it is blocks.  The else denotes the
beginning of a different block.  Yes, it is part of the if, but it is the
beginning of the next block.  I don't take { on a line of its own and }
doesn't close another }.

    In that case Python is actually quite clear.

if something:
  do something
else
  do something else

    Note that the else is on the same intention as the if because it is
starting a different block?  Same as:

if (something) {
  do something;
}
else {
  do something else;
}

    The difference there is that one needs the } to close the block.  I do not
feel that pushing the else over, effectively intenting it, makes the code
clear.

if (something) {
  do something;
} else {
  do something else;
}

    ... translated to "no braces"...

if (something) {
  do something;
  else
  do something else;

    Doesn't quite match the Python way of denoting the beginning of the next
block with the else:, does it?

    So, to recap.  } ends a block, if/else/elsif (perl), etc starts a block,
the closing } lines up with the opening statement, not the opening brace.

    Any wonder why I want to switch over to Python for a great many things?

-- 
         Steve C. Lamb         | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your
         ICQ: 5107343          | main connection to the switchboard of souls.
-------------------------------+---------------------------------------------


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sun Jan 28 13:40:12 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 19:40:12 +0100
Subject: How to call a class method from a string representing a class name
References: <3A745F5E.5F035F1D@axionet.com>
Message-ID: <951p2j0e8@news2.newsguy.com>

"Andre Fortin" <andrefor at axionet.com> wrote in message
news:3A745F5E.5F035F1D at axionet.com...
> Hi!,
>
>
> I'm trying to do the following: if there is an object named 'test' in
> this namespace, call its well-known class method 'myFunc'.

There are no "class methods" in Python.  Further, your snippet is
actually doing something different: if there is an object named
'test' in your current global namespace, and it has a __dict__
attribute, which contains a key named 'myFunc', it attempts
to call the value corresponding to that key with a single argument,
the string 'Some text'; you ignore any KeyError raised during
these operations, but not others (e.g. if myFunc exists but is
not callable, or not with exactly one argument, the exception
is not caught).

> Is there a better/easier way, avoiding globals() and vars() ?

There are slightly different ways, but it's hard to say whether
they're better or easier.  globals() is probably the best way to
get at your current module's global variables -- alternatives
such as sys.modules[__name__].__dict__ appear anything
but 'better' or 'easier' to me.  But the usual 'easier to get
forgiveness than permission' rule applies -- just try to use
name test and catch the NameError that may result!

Looking up an attribute of an object seems best performed
with getattr() than via vars().  But again try/except is
simpler -- here, just catch the possible AttributeError.

So, a solution might be:

try:
    callable = test.myFunc
except (NameError,AttributeError):
    pass
else:
    callable('Some Text')

These are 6 lines, versus your 5, but they do look simpler,
clearer, and easier to me (and, one could compact them
into 3 if willing to brave the One True Python Style's
Defenders:-).  There ARE little differences with your
snippet (a KeyError raised inside 'callable' in your case
is silently caught and hidden -- IS that what you want?),
but they're not hard to remove if needed.


Alex





From mal at lemburg.com  Thu Jan 25 06:01:13 2001
From: mal at lemburg.com (M.-A. Lemburg)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 12:01:13 +0100
Subject: access FoxPro files without ODBC
References: <943qu9$hde$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <947db3$cqi9e$1@ID-50820.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <3A700779.90CE89AA@lemburg.com>

Hakki Dogusan wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> --
> <godcha at my-deja.com> iletide yazd? news:943qu9$hde$1 at nnrp1.deja.com...
> > This is a newbie question...
> >
> > But after browsing Python Library reference,
> > Python FAQ, and comp.lang.python, I have not been
> > able to determine if there is a way to access FoxPro files without ODBC
> > available for Python.
> >
> > any help appreciated
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Godefroid Chapelle
> > BubbleNet sprl
> > Louvain-la-Neuve Belgium
> >
> >
> > Sent via Deja.com
> > http://www.deja.com/
> 
> If you have CodeBase Library (sequiter.com),
> look at my home page for a 'solution'.

If you are on Windows, then you can download the ODBC driver
package from MS (it includes the Foxpro ODBC driver AFAIK)
and is called MDAC.

Links et al. on the mxODBC page which you can find on my Python
Pages.

-- 
Marc-Andre Lemburg
______________________________________________________________________
Company:                                        http://www.egenix.com/
Consulting:                                    http://www.lemburg.com/
Python Pages:                           http://www.lemburg.com/python/



From dsh8290 at rit.edu  Tue Jan 30 13:36:31 2001
From: dsh8290 at rit.edu (D-Man)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 13:36:31 -0500
Subject: curly-brace-aphobic?
In-Reply-To: <956v4c$e3s$1@nnrp1.deja.com>; from f8dy@my-deja.com on Tue, Jan 30, 2001 at 05:54:26PM +0000
References: <3A74EBD6.3C87FD15@seebelow.org> <slrn97a9fu.7sf.clgonsal@keeshah.penguinpowered.com> <3A757FBE.E54C5ECD@seebelow.org> <mailman.980789494.4239.python-list@python.org> <slrn97c6bs.bjo.scarblac@pino.selwerd.nl> <mailman.980870616.378.python-list@python.org> <956v4c$e3s$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <20010130133631.A22695@harmony.cs.rit.edu>

On Tue, Jan 30, 2001 at 05:54:26PM +0000, Mark Pilgrim wrote:
| In article <mailman.980870616.378.python-list at python.org>,
|   D-Man <dsh8290 at rit.edu> wrote:
| > | An essential difference is the fact that lists are ordered, but dicts aren't.
| >
| > Suppose I use a dict with integers as keys.  How is this different from a list?
| >
| > dict = { 1:"one" , 2:"two" , 3:"three" }
| > list = [   "one" ,   "two" ,   "three" ]
| >
| > for i in len( list ) :
| >       print list[i]
| >
| > for i in len( dict ) :
| >       print dict[i]
| >
| > In this case, they are identical!
| 
| First, "for i in len(dict): print dict[i]" will give you a "loop over
| non-sequence" error, because len returns an integer, and for requires a

Doh!

| sequence.  You need "for i in dict.keys(): print dict[i]".

how about what I meant:

for i in range( len( dict ) ) :
	print dict[i]

and

for i in range( len( list ) ) :
	print dict[i]

| 
| Second, "for i in dict.keys(): print dict[i]" is not the same as "for i in
| list: print list[i]" because dictionaries are unordered.  I'm not really
| talking in circles here (I'm talking in sequences... no, never mind).  Just
| because you defined dict in a particular order doesn't mean that the keys
| stay in that order.  For instance, on my machine, just now, I did "for i in

Right, but the keys are integers, and range( len( ) )  (what I meant
to type) returns the integers in the proper order.

Defining the dict as:

dict = { 3:"three" , 1:"one" , 2:"two" }

would have the same effect, since range() will put the keys in the
desired order.

| dict.keys(): print dict[i]" and got the values in the reverse order from how
| I defined them ("three two one").

Ahh, but you were depending on dict.keys() to define the ordering for
you.  I was (intending to) use range() to put the keys in their traditional,
numerical order.

| 
| See http://diveintopython.org/odbchelper_dict.html for more on dictionaries,
| including a step-by-step example that illustrates this point.
| 

Yes, this explains the way that dictionaries are used in practice.  I
was thinking on a more generalized level where a list can be a special
case of a dictionary.

| -M

I just noticed another careless mistake in my original post:

for i in range() :

is zero-based indexing which works nicely for lists.  For my example
dictionary it will fail since I used a one-based indexing (keying).
For my dictionary to behave as I meant to show it should be:

dict = { 0:"one" , 1:"two" , 2:"three" }

with the key-value pairs given in any order, of course.

-D




From claird at starbase.neosoft.com  Wed Jan 31 15:09:33 2001
From: claird at starbase.neosoft.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: 31 Jan 2001 14:09:33 -0600
Subject: executing JavaScript from Python
References: <959ovu$sqd$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <63E6AD93C013B993.0AA5FD315BC99418.FEB162B59977D6FB@lp.airnews.net>

In article <959ovu$sqd$1 at nnrp1.deja.com>,  <echuck at mindspring.com> wrote:
>urllib.urlopen() can be useful for grabbing a web page and checking its
>contents. However, JavaScript generated content throws a monkey wrench
>in this technique.
>
>Has anyone cobbled together a means to invoke JavaScript from Python,
>possibly including the DOM and the substitution of output into the HTML
>file?
			.
			.
			.
I'm skeptical.  Every time I've looked at that sort
of thing, it's appeared big and scary.  I don't see
any clever way to get out of the hard work.

Network Query Language
<URL: http://sunworld.com/sunworldonline/swol-11-2000/swol-1103-regex.html >
is a different language that is the way I'd go if I
had a serious need to get something working in this
area quickly.
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at NeoSoft.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://starbase.neosoft.com/~claird/home.html


From spahievi at vega.bg  Tue Jan  9 16:57:41 2001
From: spahievi at vega.bg (Niki Spahiev)
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 23:57:41 +0200
Subject: mxTools (was Re: why no "do : until"?)
In-Reply-To: <t5mo8oimr7lle7@corp.supernews.com>
References: <mailman.979035250.28265.python-list@python.org>
 <t5mo8oimr7lle7@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <568019964.20010109235741@vega.bg>

09.1.2001, 21:09:15, Jason Cunliffe wrote:

JC> Oleg Broytmann <phd at phd.pp.ru> wrote:
>>    Anyone here has any doubts that at least mxDateTime simply MUST be in
>> the Python core? :)

JC> YES!!
JC> PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE let's end this 1970.epoch.ticks.DateTime-oriented
JC> mAdNeSs now = include mxDateTime in Python core for perpetuity..

IMHO for the non Numeric Python users mxDateTime is equal to complex
numbers.

-- 
Best regards,
 Niki Spahiev





From christof_n at pastors.de  Fri Jan 12 06:09:14 2001
From: christof_n at pastors.de (Christof Pastors)
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 12:09:14 +0100
Subject: Error in pythonic InternetExplorer hta application
References: <93k5cs$hc5$1@papyrus.erlm.siemens.de> <93kmgk018qn@news1.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <93mrrq$73u$1@papyrus.erlm.siemens.de>

Hi Alex and Grzegorz,

thanks very much for your answers. I have to read it over and over again,
especially the debug-hints from Alex. That was the next problem i had to
face, hopefully solved now.

Christof




From tim.hochberg at ieee.org  Fri Jan 19 09:05:00 2001
From: tim.hochberg at ieee.org (Tim Hochberg)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 14:05:00 GMT
Subject: 3d array?
References: <947r0q$f6k$1@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <gQX96.153818$15.33085811@news1.rdc1.az.home.com>

"Dan Stromberg" <strombrg at seki.acs.uci.edu> wrote in message
> I love python, but is there really no good way of doing a 3d array of
> a scalar type?  How about of an aggregate type?

If you're working with numbers, check out Numeric Python (NumPy), it's what
you want. Trust me. If your working with more general data types, you're
probably better off using nested lists. For example:

a =  [[[1,2,3], [4,5,6], [7,8,9]],
        [[11,12,13], [14,15,16], [17,18,19]],
        [[21,22,23], [24,25,26], [27,28,29]]]

would give you a 3D "array" with lots of silly numbers in it. Elements would
be accessed using "A[1][2][0]", etc.

If you want to use prettier indexing, you could roll your own class using
__getitem__ and __setitem__. I was going to provide an example, but work is
intruding, so maybe later.

-tim





From hancock at earthlink.net  Tue Jan 23 13:46:40 2001
From: hancock at earthlink.net (Terry Hancock)
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 10:46:40 -0800
Subject: markov applied to music? (was Re: markov.py)
References: <20010123132313.E6E2EEE85@mail.python.org>
Message-ID: <3A6DD190.7CD6D058@earthlink.net>

python-list-request at python.org wrote:
> "Carel Fellinger" <cfelling at iae.nl> wrote in message
> news:94ides$6t2$1 at animus.fel.iae.nl...
>     [snip]
> > well I don't, so please enlighten me: what's a markov chain?
> 
> A somewhat complex (but complete, correct, concise) definition
> can be found at http://pespmc1.vub.ac.be/ASC/MARKOV_CHAIN.html.
> 
> A more readable (and equally concise, but a bit less rigorous)
> definition is at http://rkb.home.cern.ch/rkb/AN16pp/node162.html.
> 
> If you really want to look into this, you may start at
> http://www.math.nyu.edu/phd_students/campbelm/stuff/random/markov.html
> which is a collection of (a few) bibliographical references and
> (a lot of) web links on Markov chains and Hidden Markov Models.

Hi,
I know almost nothing about Markov chains (though I've seen the
output before), but they were recommended to me as a possible
way to generate more complex game music based on a static score:
i.e. write and sequence the score, and then apply the Markov
chains to the sequencer file (or almost equivalently the notes
of the score).  The "loss of sense" problem is somewhat eleviated
since music doesn't usually have much linear sense to start with.
(Also the artist will know about this in advance).

It does however, have different moods, and it seems that it might
make sense to take a score with a gradually changing mood and use
a sliding window to determine what portion of the score is used,
thus allowing a "mood" parameter to control the output.  Whenever
the mood changes, the markov chain generator would have to 
re-analyze the new window and start generating output.

I presume the Markov algorithm would take care of the transition
problem, so that it doesn't just sound like random clips all
hashed together.

Would it be feasible to use the markov.py module to do this sort
of thing?

-- 
Terry Hancock
hancock at earthlink.net



From fredrik at effbot.org  Sun Jan  7 17:37:51 2001
From: fredrik at effbot.org (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2001 22:37:51 GMT
Subject: Misc Tkinter questions
References: <fvz56.2322$bR3.555232@typhoon2.ba-dsg.net>
Message-ID: <3d666.4421$Qb7.632024@newsb.telia.net>

David Allen wrote:
> 1.) How do you hide widgets?  (Is this wid.withdraw())

"withdraw" removes toplevel widgets, including the root
window (it's documented under "Toplevel Window Methods,
Visibility Methods")

To remove child widgets, use the geometry manager's "forget"
method ("pack_forget", "grid_forget", etc).

> 2.) How do you show widgets?  (undo 1.)

"deiconify" for toplevel widgets.

Repack/regrid for child widgets.

> 3.) How do you fix the size of a window?  I'm using
> a window that's a subclass of Tk, and I would like
> to know how to make it so that if the widgets within
> the window shrink, the window stays the same size.
> (i.e. put a solid minimum size on the window, which
> can grow)

"minsize" (see "Toplevel Window Methods, Window
Geometry Methods")

> 4.) Is it kosher to wid.destroy() something that's
> packed into something else and then pack something
> else in?

Yes (at least on the Tkinter level)

> 5.) Why can't you mix grid() and pack()?   (I ask
> because I like grid layouts in most situations, but
> I can't use fill=1, expand='x' when using grid)

"grid" and "pack" define what geometry manager algorithm
to use for the child widgets, and how to calculate the size
of the parent widget based on all child widgets.  If you can
figure out what Tkinter should do if you try to use multiple
layout algorithms in the same parent widget, let me know...

If your problem is the lack of a fill option for grid, it's much
easier: just use the "sticky" option instead:

    sticky="ew" is the same thing as fill="x"
    sticky="ns" is the same thing as fill="y"
    sticky="nsew" is the same thing as fill="both"

To make the grid widget expand, you need to set "weight"
values for the rows/columns you want to resize.  To do this,
use "grid_rowconfigure" and "grid_columnconfigure" (see
"The Grid Geometry Manager, Manager Methods")

> 6.) Is it better to create all of your widgets,
> then pack them in going from the inside out, or
> is it better to pack them as you create them?

It usually doesn't matter -- no matter what you do,
the geometry management algorithm won't run until
you get back to the main event loop.

However, when you use the pack manager, you should
pack important things first.  If the pack manager cannot
make the parent widget large enough to hold all child
widgets, it'll assign space in the packing order.

(for example, if you're packing a scrollable widgets and
a vertical scrollbar, you should pack the scrollbar first,
using side=RIGHT).

Hope this helps!

Cheers /F




From phd at phd.pp.ru  Sun Jan 14 07:40:45 2001
From: phd at phd.pp.ru (Oleg Broytmann)
Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 15:40:45 +0300 (MSK)
Subject: HTML embeded with python
In-Reply-To: <979340877.647591@rexx.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0101141539120.12184-100000@fep132.fep.ru>

On Fri, 12 Jan 2001, Dave Kuhlman wrote:
> implementation of ZODB (Zope object database) independent of Zope,
> and I'm suggesting that it's possible to use DTML independent of
> Zope.  And I'm pretty sure that the Web server inside Zope
> (ZServer/Medusa) can be used independent of Zope.  Is Zope like a
> toolkit, or what?

   It is component-based app server. Some components can be used
separately.

Oleg.
----
     Oleg Broytmann            http://phd.pp.ru/            phd at phd.pp.ru
           Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN.




From ack at simplyweb.net  Tue Jan 23 19:13:40 2001
From: ack at simplyweb.net (Michael Ackerman)
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 16:13:40 -0800
Subject: Random and whrandom
References: <94bj03$59v$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <3a6a3540.1976549@news.xo.com> <ei8q6t0ohuded1oiet6qe79e1eco529ote@4ax.com> <94jkh0011gg@news1.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <3A6E1E33.17174F26@simplyweb.net>

I happen to recall a reference to this problem. In 'Functional C' by
Hartel & Muller, they write (p.3): "The theory of random number
generators tells us that it is incorrect to use alternate numbers from
one random number generator to generate the values of two dice (Jain,
1991). Instead, two independent random generators must be used." (Do
they mean _any_ random number generator?) The reference is to R. Jain's
'The Art of Computer Systems Performance Analysis', publ. John Wiley, to
which I don't have access.

-- Michael

Alex Martelli wrote:
> 
> "Tim Roberts" <timr at probo.com> wrote in message
> news:ei8q6t0ohuded1oiet6qe79e1eco529ote at 4ax.com...
>     [snip]
> > whrandom is a linear congruential random number generator.  The properties
> 
> Well, not exactly -- it's a Wichmann-Hill (or rather 'the' W-H) RNG,
> that is, 3 small linear congruential RNGs whose current values are
> (normalized and) summed.  Still, that's doesnt affect your main
> points, I think.
> 
> Alex
> 
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list




From jessw at loop.com  Mon Jan  1 03:12:55 2001
From: jessw at loop.com (Jesse W)
Date: Mon, 01 Jan 2001 00:12:55 -0800
Subject: Accessing variables created after import in imported files
References: <3A4FFBCB.76A7@loop.com> <t506vnkc2h6r72@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <3A503C07.6040@loop.com>

Dear Scott,
	Thank you very much, your solution works quite well.  I wonder why I
did not think of it myself, or why I was so folish as to reject it when
I had it.  But, now I am faced with another strange and puzzinling
probblem; however, this one I have found a solution for, but I have no
idea _why_ the solution works.  When I run the code I wrote up, with
your change, it gives an AttributeError on the use of
ThingThatUsesGameClass in file1.  However, if you reload file2 after
importing it, then the code works perfectly.  Why?  How?  This makes no
sense!  As far as I knew, importing and reloading were identical, as
long as the file was unchanged.  Do you have any ideas about why this
could be?

					Thank you for your solution,
							Jesse W

Scott David Daniels wrote:
> 
> Try:
>     ...
>     #file 2
>     import file1
> 
>     class ThingThatUsesGameClass:
>        def __init__(self):
>            print file1.TheGame.foo #this should use the instance of the Game
> #class
>     ...
>


From amk at mira.erols.com  Wed Jan 17 21:12:58 2001
From: amk at mira.erols.com (A.M. Kuchling)
Date: 18 Jan 2001 02:12:58 GMT
Subject: Securing passwords stored inside of a database field using Python
References: <20010117165350.A24421@yetix.sz-sb.de>, <NKh96.874$eI2.31689@NewsReader> <Pine.LNX.4.30.0101171749020.28607-100000@fep132.fep.ru> <20010117165350.A24421@yetix.sz-sb.de> <20010118012739.CF619A83E@darjeeling.zadka.site.co.il> <mailman.979764401.20905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrn96cl3a.2o4.amk@207-172-111-159.s159.tnt1.ann.va.dialup.rcn.com>

On Wed, 17 Jan 2001 21:44:48 +0100, 
	Andreas Jung <andreas at andreas-jung.com> wrote:
>I know. IDEA is protected by software patents. That's the reason
>why e.g. GnuPG does not IDEA and RSA but e.g. Blowfish. 

Note that the RSA patent expired last September; current versions of
GnuPG, OpenSSL, etc. all support RSA now.

--amk



From adamgamble15 at hotmail.com  Thu Jan 18 14:20:44 2001
From: adamgamble15 at hotmail.com (adam gamble)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 13:20:44 -0600
Subject: Is it possible to compile a Python script into a exe file?
Message-ID: <t6fqrs57ngp94d@corp.supernews.com>

NT




From fredrik at effbot.org  Fri Jan 12 11:40:12 2001
From: fredrik at effbot.org (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 16:40:12 GMT
Subject: URL replacement in text
References: <3A5F2A5A.494023BF@thawte.com>
Message-ID: <MrG76.5696$Qb7.794378@newsb.telia.net>

Ryan Tracey wrote:
> Can anybody point me in the right direction on this one. I'd like to
> pass a block of plain text (string) to a function and have that function
> look for URLs and turn them into HTML URL tags

import re

links = re.compile("(?:http|ftp|gopher):[a-z0-9._~/%-]+")

def fixlink(m):
    href = m.group(0)
    return "<a href='%s'>%s</a>" % (href, href)

sometext = """
here's a link: http://www.pythonware.com
"""

print links.sub(fixlink, sometext)

Hope this helps!

Cheers /F




From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Tue Jan 23 07:25:23 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 13:25:23 +0100
Subject: How do I know all thrown exceptions of a function?
References: <g3lb49.73s.ln@127.0.0.1> <94d93h$55d$1@troll.powertech.no> <mailman.980059223.25947.python-list@python.org> <Qeya6.7932$AH6.1260668@newsc.telia.net> <3A6B24F0.EA164698@gte.net> <94icr2$6kv$1@animus.fel.iae.nl> <3A6CDBDA.C3120F98@gte.net> <94ipci$afo$1@animus.fel.iae.nl> <3A6CFD8E.BD473DFD@gte.net> <iEab6.8765$Qb7.1233360@newsb.telia.net> <3A6D54CB.2261D535@gte.net> <94jo9u$h45$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <94jt7e01fil@news1.newsguy.com>

<fredrik at pythonware.com> wrote in message
news:94jo9u$h45$1 at nnrp1.deja.com...
> "sandj.williams at gte.net" wrote:
> > I parse that to mean 'cruft'.
>
> Sorry, I cannot find 'cruft' in my dictionary.  Did you mean
> that Python's import statement doesn't work as described, that
> Tkinter hasn't been designed to support from-import, or what?

What he means, I don't know, but, for a definition of 'cruft',
I like http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/jargon/html/entry/cruft.html:

1. n. An unpleasant substance. The dust that gathers under your
bed is cruft; the TMRC Dictionary correctly noted that attacking
it with a broom only produces more.

2. n. The results of shoddy construction.

3. vt. [from `hand cruft', pun on `hand craft'] To write assembler
code for something normally (and better) done by a compiler
(see hand-hacking).

4. n. Excess; superfluous junk; used esp. of redundant or
superseded code.


Given the comp.* context, and the noun-like usage, I suspect
either [2] or more likely [4] are intended.


Alex





From pilou_g at club-internet.fr  Sun Jan 21 12:31:43 2001
From: pilou_g at club-internet.fr (Pierre-Louis Gaucheron)
Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 18:31:43 +0100
Subject: [newbie]How to write lines of code in stdout ( like ksh -x option)?
References: <94cftu$np4$1@front5m.grolier.fr> <slrn96kk7s.9v2.quinn@regurgitate.ugcs.caltech.edu>
Message-ID: <94f6f5$4nl$1@front2.grolier.fr>

Thanks for the answer,
but now how can I print the lines with their arguments evaluated, like in
your example :
"y = 10 * 2" instead of  "y  = x * 2" ?

"Quinn Dunkan" <quinn at regurgitate.ugcs.caltech.edu> a ?crit dans le message
news: slrn96kk7s.9v2.quinn at regurgitate.ugcs.caltech.edu...
> On Sat, 20 Jan 2001 17:55:12 +0100, Pierre-Louis Gaucheron
> <pilou_g at club-internet.fr> wrote:
> >Hello,
> >I am looking for a simple way to write each line interpreted on standard
> >output for debugging purpose like the set -x option in Korn shell.
> >I didn't find this information in any documentation, so here I am.
> >Thanks
>
> See the 'sys.settrace()' and 'pdb' documentation.
>
> #!/usr/local/bin/python
> import sys, linecache
>
> def trace(fr, evt, arg):
>     if evt == 'line':
>         f = fr.f_code.co_filename
>         n = fr.f_lineno
>         print '%s:%d -> ' %(f, n), linecache.getline(f, n),
>     return trace
>
> def main():
>     print 'hello'
>     x = 10
>     y = x * 2
>     print y
>
> if __name__ == '__main__':
>     sys.settrace(trace)
>     main()




From scarblac at pino.selwerd.nl  Wed Jan 31 19:36:52 2001
From: scarblac at pino.selwerd.nl (Remco Gerlich)
Date: 1 Feb 2001 00:36:52 GMT
Subject: Any practice exercises for beginner???
References: <qz%d6.29887$KP3.8385706@news3.rdc1.on.home.com>
Message-ID: <slrn97hbf8.ht5.scarblac@pino.selwerd.nl>

shaka <fabrice.n at home.com> wrote in comp.lang.python:
>  I was just wondering beside the tutorial if there was any practice
> exercises to reinforce beginners strength in python?
> I can recall that when learning Java, some Java website offered some
> exercises for beginners.

I'm interested in this sort of thing. Can you tell us what the Java exercise
site was? Probably a good start would be to do the same things in Python.

-- 
Remco Gerlich


From danielk at aracnet.com  Tue Jan  2 10:17:05 2001
From: danielk at aracnet.com (Daniel Klein)
Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2001 07:17:05 -0800
Subject: using 'global' across source files.
References: <3A51CC63.A90A0E0B@sara.nl>
Message-ID: <01s35tgmoirgtplgs46402vqpootc2oe7u@4ax.com>

On Tue, 02 Jan 2001 13:41:07 +0100, Bram Stolk <bram at sara.nl> wrote:

>Hello,
>
>
>Using the 'global' keyword, I can have my functions
>access global variables, like:
>
>  # try.py
>  val=100
>
>  def change_val() :
>    global val
>    val = 2*val
>
>  change_val()
>  print val
>
>However, this scheme falls apart if I split up this
>code in two files, one containing the global, and
>one containing the func.
>
>  # prog.py
>
>  from funcs import *
>
>  val = 100
>
>  change_val()
>  print val
>
>  # funcs.py
>
>  def change_val() :
>    global val
>    val = val * 2
>

One solution would be to remove the 'global' and pass 'val' as an
argument, ie,

def change_val(val):
	return val * 2


import funcs
val = 100
funcs.change_val(val)


Daniel Klein


From fuess at att.net  Tue Jan 30 09:38:34 2001
From: fuess at att.net (David A. Fuess)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 14:38:34 GMT
Subject: Does python20. package come all Libraries
References: <Rlpd6.16903$KP3.5182969@news3.rdc1.on.home.com>
Message-ID: <TdF2Ou9AYBnAM=adnPwZpPUdXtAs@4ax.com>

No. Many of the special libraries are available on www.python.org. For
some you're better off going to the library developer's site for the
latest version. If your planning to run pythonwin, you might consider
installing ActiveState python instead of Python20. It comes with all
of the Win32 libraries installed.

Dave

"shaka" <fabrice.n at home.com> wrote:

>
>
>I was just wondering if all the libraries published on the python web site
>are contained in downloading package of python20.  If no, how can I get
>those libraries??
>
>thanks
>



From mwh21 at cam.ac.uk  Tue Jan 23 16:55:00 2001
From: mwh21 at cam.ac.uk (Michael Hudson)
Date: 23 Jan 2001 21:55:00 +0000
Subject: How do I know all thrown exceptions of a function?
References: <g3lb49.73s.ln@127.0.0.1> <94d93h$55d$1@troll.powertech.no> <mailman.980059223.25947.python-list@python.org> <Qeya6.7932$AH6.1260668@newsc.telia.net> <3A6B24F0.EA164698@gte.net> <94icr2$6kv$1@animus.fel.iae.nl> <3A6CDBDA.C3120F98@gte.net> <94ipci$afo$1@animus.fel.iae.nl> <3A6CFD8E.BD473DFD@gte.net> <iEab6.8765$Qb7.1233360@newsb.telia.net> <3A6D54CB.2261D535@gte.net> <94jo9u$h45$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <94jt7e01fil@news1.newsguy.com> <Zvjb6.8419$AH6.1356839@newsc.telia.net> <94kren0b1o@news2.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <m3snmaylvv.fsf@atrus.jesus.cam.ac.uk>

"Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com> writes:

> "Fredrik Lundh" <fredrik at effbot.org> wrote in message
> news:Zvjb6.8419$AH6.1356839 at newsc.telia.net...
> > Alex Martelli wrote:
> > > Given the comp.* context, and the noun-like usage, I suspect
> > > either [2] or more likely [4] are intended.
> >
> > might so be, but I still cannot make any sense of his
> > post.
> >
> > oh well /F
> 
> Me neither.  Maybe, even with the help from the dictionary definitions,
> it takes a native speaker to understand it?-)

Doesn't help here.

Cheers,
M.

-- 
  I'm a keen cyclist and I stop at red lights.  Those who don't need
  hitting with a great big slapping machine.     
                                           -- Colin Davidson, cam.misc


From jessw at loop.com  Mon Jan  1 02:47:30 2001
From: jessw at loop.com (Jesse W)
Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 23:47:30 -0800
Subject: Happy New Year from LA!
Message-ID: <3A503612.3E84@loop.com>

Hello and happy new year!

	This is just a happy message of New Year's Welcome from LA.  Whether it
is the first year of the new millinium or the second, or the zeroth, may
it be enjoyable, ridiculous, and important to all of you.

			Happy Pythoning,
				Jesse Weinstein and family


From hwanjoyu at uiuc.edu  Mon Jan 29 18:53:34 2001
From: hwanjoyu at uiuc.edu (Hwanjo Yu)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 17:53:34 -0600
Subject: Q: function parameters again
Message-ID: <4ond6.158$pT.3554@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu>

Hi,
The book says the parameters are passed by reference, but the following
example seems not.
How can I pass it by reference in the following example ?

>>> def func(a):
...   a = a + 1
...
>>> a = 3
>>> func(a)
>>> print a
3

Thank you.




From grante at visi.com  Tue Jan 16 13:23:15 2001
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 18:23:15 GMT
Subject: Problem with a tuple - newbie ignorance
References: <3A633531.9010303@yale.edu> <3A635C32.9E5285C5@yale.edu> <i1k76t8g9dr5fft0v0phcr98hb6qkdjbaq@4ax.com> <slrn968fk9.g0f.scarblac@pino.selwerd.nl>
Message-ID: <nk096.27$eI2.11999@ruti.visi.com>

In article <slrn968fk9.g0f.scarblac at pino.selwerd.nl>, Remco Gerlich wrote:
>Alan Daniels <danielsatalandanielsdotcom> wrote in comp.lang.python:
>
>> 3) If you find yourself doing the double-backslash a lot (thanks,
>> Microsoft!), rather than typing...
>> > dir = os.listdir('D:\\statlab\\ssda\\data')
>> ...you can write this as...
>> 
>>   dir = os.listdir(r'D:\statlab\ssda\data')
>
>Also, a / works just as well:
>
>dir = os.listdir('D:/statlab/ssda/data')
>
>It works, but it's kind of secret, it seems :)

Apparently.  Forward slashes have been accepted by MS
"operating systems" since the very beginning, but I don't know
how many times I've seen people (mostly in C programs) shooting
themselves in the foot by trying to use backslashes instead.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  I want to so HAPPY,
                                  at               the VEINS in my neck STAND
                               visi.com            OUT!!


From aahz at panix.com  Sat Jan 27 01:36:29 2001
From: aahz at panix.com (Aahz Maruch)
Date: 26 Jan 2001 22:36:29 -0800
Subject: undefined variable
References: <nHsc6.252522$59.63479549@news3.rdc1.on.home.com>
Message-ID: <94tq9d$7mb$1@panix2.panix.com>

In article <nHsc6.252522$59.63479549 at news3.rdc1.on.home.com>,
shaka <fabrice.n at home.com> wrote:
>
> hi, I am a beginner learning python, and I have notice that in python
>variale are not declared or defined. But does it mean that your cannot use
>the same variable twice and all your variable have to be of different name.
>In java you can have a variable of the same name but of different type and
>it makes programming much more flexible.

Python variables can hold any data type.  Also, I could be wrong, but I
doubt that Java supports name overloading for variables; I believe name
overloading only applies to functions.
-- 
                      --- Aahz (Copyright 2001 by aahz at pobox.com)

Androgynous poly kinky vanilla queer het    <*>     http://www.rahul.net/aahz/
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6

"I heard Commentary and Dissent had merged and formed Dysentary."


From dan.rolander at marriott.com  Fri Jan 19 04:34:12 2001
From: dan.rolander at marriott.com (Dan Rolander)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 04:34:12 -0500
Subject: I will kill my Python
References: <mailman.979852022.13720.python-list@python.org> <947r18$rdt$1@news.online.de> <948f09$i96$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <00b201c081fa$fba697a0$11260340@yin>

Well said Mike.

Although I have found ways to create minimal private distributions and
single exe packages, it's not easy. There needs to be a better deployment
solution for Python scripts. I'm sure I'll get bashed by those who think I
should just install the full Python distribution on any machine that I want
to run a script on, but I support about 25,000 Windows desktops and that's
just not feasible.

Dan

----- Original Message -----
From: <thelazydogsback at my-deja.com>
Newsgroups: comp.lang.python
To: <python-list at python.org>
Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2001 11:15 PM
Subject: Re: I will kill my Python


>
>
> Certainly the tone of the original message warrants both replies that
> were given - I'm surprised there weren't more...
>
> OTOH, I think the issue that was so poorly raised is an important one -
> that for Phython to have the greatest reach (it is certainly useful
> right now, as has been shown by it's many applications), it needs to be
> more than a great and pure language, but be a "solution" for people.
> (Including things like deployment options, etc.) As a person evaluating
> Python myself (a post with a hopefully more approacable manner
> forthcoming) I think these are important considerations. (As are
> performance, debuggers, ease of setup and configuration, understanding
> integration and interoperability issues, etc.)
>
> On a related topic, I've seen some Microsoft bashing here as well (not
> just this post.) There's certainly nothing wrong with that (It's a
> profession for some) but I must say that in some cases it reduces
> Python's credibility. I want to see people using it because it works
> for them, not just because they hate the evil Micro$oft and would
> rather code with toggle-switches than use anything built even 500 miles
> from Redmond. Just some thoughts...
>
> thanks,
> mike
>
> In article <947r18$rdt$1 at news.online.de>,
>   "Nils Hensel" <nils.hensel at online.de> wrote:
> > If an exe is your single concern then perhaps you should better stick
> with
> > VB.
> >
> > Nils
> >
> > "Bruno Schaefer" <bup.schaefer at planet-interkom.de> schrieb im
> Newsbeitrag
> > news:mailman.979852022.13720.python-list at python.org...
> > > Hi all, I have written a nice Python application with TKinter. And
> it
> > > works fine.Yes. But now I want to build an exe, but - o what ashit
> > > with that installer, builder, simple - confuing thing. I have spent
> > > many hours with blood and tears, but o what a shit, ugly shit :
> > > nothing works:  The end of all
> > > I give it up. I will kill my python. Its easier with a dummy-xy-
> Basic
> > > to make an exe as with this shit-modern-"oh what an easy nice
> > > language"-Python.
> > >
> > > Not with me.
> > >
> > > Yeah, python is easy and nice, the pure language, but the rest...
> > >
> > > goodby, I'am going to look for another real easy animal !
> > >
> > >
> > > B.Schaefer
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
> Sent via Deja.com
> http://www.deja.com/
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>




From horst at proceryon.at  Fri Jan 26 03:31:04 2001
From: horst at proceryon.at (Horst Gassner)
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 09:31:04 +0100
Subject: Tkinter vs wxPython: your opinions?
References: <3A6F899F.E164F628@home.com> <94qeme$ep4$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <3A7135C8.38D65D34@proceryon.at>

Hello Greg!

> I hope this helps in some way,
> -greg
Really great post - thank you very much!

At the moment I am in the situation where I have to decide if we stick
on Tkinter or if we should change to wxPython. I am using Tkinter/Pmw
for almost 8 month and the following points are the one which I dislike
most:
- no table widget/grid (I made my own but it _is_ like a nightmare)
- no tree widget (I used a simple one which is freely available and made
some extensions)
- speed (canvas widgets are very powerful but unfortunately slow)

The last point is the most important one. I am happy with my table and
tree widget regarding to there functionality but the performance is a
big drawback. And speed is the reason why I think about wxPython more
and more.

Tkinter 3000 raised my hopes because it should be 2-10 times faster in
"a typical application". But when will the first final release be
available? How much is the perfomance boost for canvas widgets (I use
them in my table and tree widget)?

Changing to wxPython would result in much work so Tkinter 3000 - please
be fast :-)).

Nice greetings
Horst


From galyak at my-deja.com  Fri Jan 19 18:55:54 2001
From: galyak at my-deja.com (galyak)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 23:55:54 GMT
Subject: Neophyte looking for good books on Python
Message-ID: <94ak66$dra$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

I'm looking for good books on Python. I'm a neophyte programmer and I
have a small understanding of C. I'm looking for good introductory books
on Python.

I've heard that "Programming Python by Mark Lutz" is a real treat. Since
python is an evolving language, is this book to old (1997)? Should i get
something fresher? I don't know.

Have a nice day. Thanks.


--
galyak


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From not.this at seebelow.org  Tue Jan 30 14:07:17 2001
From: not.this at seebelow.org (Grant Griffin)
Date: 30 Jan 2001 11:07:17 -0800
Subject: curly-brace-aphobic?
References: <3A74EBD6.3C87FD15@seebelow.org> <slrn97a9fu.7sf.clgonsal@keeshah.penguinpowered.com> <3A757FBE.E54C5ECD@seebelow.org> <slrn97b6kb.k6.grey@teleute.dmiyu.org>
Message-ID: <9573d501gcj@drn.newsguy.com>

In article <slrn97b6kb.k6.grey at teleute.dmiyu.org>, grey at despair.rpglink.com
says...
>
>On Mon, 29 Jan 2001 08:35:42 -0600, Grant Griffin <not.this at seebelow.org>
>wrote:
>>It helps me when reading code (even my own) to be reminded of the difference.
>>(I am the proud owner of a skull of strictly limited size.)
>
>    One too many trips to the south pacific, I take it?  :)

<blush>  That's very flattering, actually, but it's congenital. :-)

>-- 
>         Steve C. Lamb         | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your
>         ICQ: 5107343          | main connection to the switchboard of souls.
>-------------------------------+---------------------------------------------

                                                            ^^^^^^
(btw,-do-you-live-in-the-south-pacific?-<wink>)-ly y'rs,

=g2

_____________________________________________________________________

Grant R. Griffin                                       g2 at dspguru.com
Publisher of dspGuru                           http://www.dspguru.com
Iowegian International Corporation            http://www.iowegian.com



From sandipan at vsnl.com  Fri Jan 12 10:35:00 2001
From: sandipan at vsnl.com (Sandipan Gangopadhyay)
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 21:05:00 +0530
Subject: How robust is Python ?
References: <9358nn$3c5$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, <9354f9$vbi$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, <LOBBJMHOIFOLFIPFANHJAEJFCHAA.zope@TheWebsons.com> <mailman.978716227.31692.python-list@python.org> <mailman.978721929.3640.python-list@python.org> <20010106103938.8FCAFA84F@darjeeling.zadka.site.co.il>
Message-ID: <03d501c07cad$3a8a4320$020000c3@node02>

----- Original Message -----
From: "Moshe Zadka" <moshez at zadka.site.co.il>
To: <rturpin at my-deja.com>
Cc: <python-list at python.org>
Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2001 4:09 PM
Subject: Re: How robust is Python ?

> On Fri, 05 Jan 2001, rturpin at my-deja.com wrote:
>
> > Unfortunately, cron is not cross-platform. We'll have
> > some sort of mechanism to do this. The problem is not
> > just the language and operating system, but everything
> > that can kill a process. Still .. you want such mechanism
> > as backup, not as a solution to regular crashes.
>
> Of course. None of this is meant to imply Python crashes regularily.
> In fact, I can't think off-hand of a language less likely to suffer
> crashes, given that you take a few exception-catching precautions
> in the main loop (have a catch-all except: which re-execs the process).

I want this in my code, but came across a problem -

while binAliveMarker:
  if binIWannaStartAgain:
    time.sleep(1)
    continue
  work code ...

If I try a catch-all except, continue hits except on the outer level rather
than while. Probably the reason that it results in syntax error.

while binAliveMarker:
  try:
    if binWannaStartAgainLater:
      time.sleep(1)
      continue
    work code ...
  except:
    pass

Any suggestions to make it work with continue (or an alternative) ? Apart
from removing continue completely by making the work code inside an else ?

Thanks,

Sandipan

> --
> Moshe Zadka <sig at zadka.site.co.il>
> This is a signature anti-virus.
> Please stop the spread of signature viruses!
>
> --
> http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>





From emile at fenx.com  Mon Jan 15 07:17:29 2001
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 04:17:29 -0800
Subject: converting an id() into an object
Message-ID: <93uppg$bm4b8$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>

Is there a way to inverse the functionality of id()?  This
of course depends on items not moving around in memory and
not being decref'd into gc.

eg:

foo = id(spam)
...
...
poof = swizzled(foo)

spam is poof    # this would be true?


I don't have an immediate need for this, but the thought has
crossed my mind often enough that if it were available, I
may have done something with it.


--

Emile van Sebille
emile at fenx.com
-------------------






From tim.one at home.com  Mon Jan 29 07:19:42 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 07:19:42 -0500
Subject: "in" for dicts (was: Python 2.1 function attributes)
In-Reply-To: <slrn97ahpp.a66.scarblac@pino.selwerd.nl>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCOEPFILAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Remco Gerlich]
> Huh? I like it (xreadlines) because it's a very simple way to
> iterate over a  file line by line without having the whole file
> in memory. Simpler than the several existing ways that get
> discussed over and over and over.

    for line in f.readlines():

would have been almost infinitely preferable, had we been able to dream up a
reasonable way to do that lazily that wouldn't break some existing code.
But we couldn't.

As is,

   for line in fileinput.input(fname):

is even simpler (it opens the file for you), and can do all sorts of nifty
common file operations with some more arguments (iterate over multiple
files, keep track of line numbers, do in-place modifications w/ or w/o
backups, parse a cmdline).  The only reason to like .xreadlines() is
speed -- but, again, that's reason enough.

> And it's faster, too!!

cross-out-the-"too"-and-"bingo!"-ly y'rs  - tim




From blablu at gmx.net  Wed Jan 10 09:03:01 2001
From: blablu at gmx.net (Mike 'Cat' Perkonigg)
Date: 10 Jan 2001 14:03:01 GMT
Subject: Python + IIS problems
Message-ID: <902598A71mikecat@192.168.10.38>

Hi!

I tried to write python cgi programs for our IIS.
If I call a python cgi, the IIS spawns a python interpreter but I never get a 
result and the python process doesn't end.
IIS has a timeout sometimes later and terminates the python process.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated,
Mike


From fredrik at effbot.org  Fri Jan 19 13:31:54 2001
From: fredrik at effbot.org (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 18:31:54 GMT
Subject: How to run script from interpreter?
References: <mailman.979912371.22565.python-list@python.org> <t6h1ftlsb1936c@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <uK%96.7287$Qb7.1090165@newsb.telia.net>

JustinHJ wrote:
> A cool thing I found out solving my own problem is that a module can be a
> variable. So you want to run a module called 'bobsmodule'
>
>     str = 'bobsmodule'
>     fp, pathname, description = imp.find_module( modname )
>     print 'importing module', modname
>     LoadedModule = imp.load_module( modname, fp, pathname, description)
>     LoadedModule.Afunctioninbobsmodule(i)

or better:

    LoadedModule = __import__('bobsmodule')

Cheers /F




From tdelaney at avaya.com  Sun Jan  7 22:50:32 2001
From: tdelaney at avaya.com (Delaney, Timothy)
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 14:50:32 +1100 
Subject: simple symbolic math in Python
Message-ID: <B43D149A9AB2D411971300B0D03D7E8B0FBD57@natasha.auslabs.avaya.com>

This doesn't cover the general case ... only the specific case. Yes, sin may
now work - but cos won't, or atan, etc, unless you replace *everything* ...

Tim Delaney
Avaya Australia
+61 2 9352 9079

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rainer Deyke [mailto:root at rainerdeyke.com]
> Sent: Monday, 8 January 2001 2:42 PM
> To: python-list at python.org
> Subject: Re: simple symbolic math in Python
> 
> 
> "Kragen Sitaker" <kragen at dnaco.net> wrote in message
> news:vE966.12210$K72.50241 at e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com...
> > I posted most of this to kragen-hacks
> > <kragen-hacks-subscribe at kragen.dnaco.net> late last millennium.
> >
> > I'm running into a problem: I can overload unary minus, but I can't
> > overload e.g. math.sin and math.cos, because they're not 
> methods.  It
> > would be really nice to have a way to do that.  I can create objects
> > that act just like dictionaries or files, including working 
> with almost
> > all of the built-in functions, but it doesn't look like I can create
> > objects that look just like numbers.
> 
> import math
> 
> class MyNumber:
>   ...
> 
> old_sin = math.sin
> 
> def my_sin(n):
>   if isinstance(n, MyNumber):
>     ...
>   else:
>     return old_sin(n)
> 
> math.sin = my_sin
> 
> 
> --
> Rainer Deyke (root at rainerdeyke.com)
> Shareware computer games           -           http://rainerdeyke.com
> "In ihren Reihen zu stehen heisst unter Feinden zu kaempfen" - Abigor
> 
> 
> -- 
> http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 



From tim.one at home.com  Sat Jan 13 19:03:51 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 19:03:51 -0500
Subject: why is a negative shift value illegal?
In-Reply-To: <002c01c07dd3$1c9a7570$6501a8c0@EM2>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCOEHHIIAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Chris Ryland]
> ...
> Why shouldn't negative shifts just mean a shift in the opposite
> direction?  To avoid confusion? Becuse there's only way way to
> do things in Python?
>
> E.g., 16 << -2 seems like it might well be defined as 16 >> 2.

Because we don't have signed zeroes in Python:  in

    16 << 0
vs
    16 << -0

we couldn't tell whether you wanted us to leave 16 alone from the left or
from the right <wink>.

Sorry, couldn't resist that.  Simpler answer is "why would they?".  shifts
don't work that way in most other languages; seems of marginal utility at
best; and would slow down all Python shifts because Python is implemented in
C and we could no longer use the native C shift (well, we can't anyway,
because C doesn't define the behavior of signs on right shifts; or shifts
greater than or equal to the bit size in either direction; and Python does
define those cases -- but yet another test in the implementation maze sure
wouldn't speed things up).

if-you-want-to-shift-right-then-shift-right-ly y'rs  - tim




From tim.one at home.com  Sat Jan 20 00:55:04 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 00:55:04 -0500
Subject: I (don'  ) will kill my Python
In-Reply-To: <94b6vr+8av8@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCAEPMIJAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Bruno Schaefer]
> ...
> All aspects in short:
> 1. There are many Python users with similar problems
> 2. The Python developers have to do more in this direction

Speaking as one of those godlike <ahem> Python developers, you'd be amazed
at how many people are eager to tell me I have to do more in all possible
directions for *them* <0.5 wink>.  This is just one more on an unbounded
pile.

> To improve the popularity of Python and to use it as first programming
> language this topic to create standalones is very important.

I don't think so.  See below.

> Young people, starting with programming, take their program on a disk
> and give it to their friends and will say "This is my program! I have
> created that by myself !!!"
>
> And the reality is that most of beginners use M$soft products, that
> means Win$.
>
> Is it the best solution for this problems to say : Go to VB or never
> come back, if Python users are angry about their problems ???

Python was never designed for standalone operation.  That's life.  What they
*should* say is:  "This is my program!  I have created it by myself!  Look!
And it's only 507 bytes!  Now you go to http://www.python.org/2.0/ and click
on 'Windows installer'.  Then we can share tiny Python programs via email
forever after."

I'm philosophically opposed to teaching kids that sharing fun programs
requires swapping multi-megabyte platform-specific binary executables over
high-speed internet connections.  It's much better if their friends have
Python installed too.  Then they can also jump into the program, change it,
improve it, do a bit of *programming* themselves.  The nearly unbounded
artificial pain of producing platform-dependent binaries is someting Python
was deliberately designed to get away from.

Businesspeople have other concerns -- but they can afford to hire Gordon
<wink>.

the-freeze-utilities-are-exactly-as-good-as-volunteers-made-them-ly
    y'rs  - tim




From bernhard at abnoba.intevation.de  Tue Jan  2 07:30:16 2001
From: bernhard at abnoba.intevation.de (Bernhard Reiter)
Date: 2 Jan 2001 12:30:16 GMT
Subject: fcgi.py
References: <3a4a865c.1325844015@localhost> <3a4a90ab.1328483109@localhost>
    <92f20t$re4$4@newsserver.rrzn.uni-hannover.de>
    <3a4c1e99.60463812@newnews.prodigy.net> <92ih9f$kgt$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <92shko$6c4$2@newsserver.rrzn.uni-hannover.de>

In article <92ih9f$kgt$1 at nnrp1.deja.com>,
	gtalvola at NameConnector.com writes:
> In article <3a4c1e99.60463812 at newnews.prodigy.net>,
>   victor at prodigy.net wrote:

>> Well, my most important need was not to have to open database
>> connections every time CGI executed. Currently I don't need
>> multiple instances of the script running simultaneously. If and
>> when I do, I plan to add multithreading to my FastCGI library (I
>> actually believe it had already been done).

> Here's another suggestion: skip FastCGI -- I'm sure it's great on
> Unixes, but I was never able to get it to work on NT (it sounds like
> you had better luck than I did).  

AFAIUI he did not get mod_fcgi working under Windows NT.
Nether was I, by the way.  I guess it was buggy when I tested it.

> Instead, use
> the WebKit application server,

WebKist seems to be a little to big for his task.
Probably just mod_python will do.
	Bernhard
-- 
Professional Service around Free Software                (intevation.net)  
The FreeGIS Project                                         (freegis.org)
Association for a Free Informational Infrastructure            (ffii.org)
FSF Europe                                            (www.fsfeurope.org)


From huthut at my-deja.com  Sat Jan 13 19:40:26 2001
From: huthut at my-deja.com (huthut at my-deja.com)
Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 00:40:26 GMT
Subject: http authentication
Message-ID: <93qshr$c69$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

Please forgive my, probably, very naive question.
Im trying to hack togethe ra script that will
download a number of files off a internet site.
The only problem is that this site is password
protected (in IE a box pops up for username and
password). So first i tried the
urllib.FancyURLopener.open(url) which prompted me
for a username but then froze. Then i tried .open
('http://user:password at www.somewhere.com') but
then i got:

File "c:\python20\lib\urllib.py", line 513, in
__init__
    apply(URLopener.__init__, (self,) + args)
  File "c:\python20\lib\urllib.py", line 91, in
__init__
    assert hasattr(proxies, 'has_key'), "proxies
must be a mapping"
AssertionError: proxies must be a mapping

Does anyone have any suggestions?

Thanks!


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From hancock at earthlink.net  Sat Jan 20 01:00:06 2001
From: hancock at earthlink.net (Terry Hancock)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 22:00:06 -0800
Subject: Tabbing/Spaces
References: <20010120011201.72310F44E@mail.python.org>
Message-ID: <3A692966.E81FB305@earthlink.net>

> Robin Becker writes:
> > In article <mtzogn9rpx.fsf at astron.berkeley.edu>, Johann Hibschman
> > <johann at physics.berkeley.edu> writes
> >> Robert L Hicks writes:
> > ...
> >> Well, a "tab stop" is defined to be equal to 8 spaces.  However, on
> > ...
> > Well, I define my tab stops and I make them equal to 4 spaces. Using
> > tabs allows me to alter all indents at once. Also quicker at travelling
> > back and forth across slow networks.
> 
> Would you prefer if I said that a "tab" was defined to be 8 spaces?
> Regardless of how you display them, python defines a tab to increment
> to the next 8-space boundary.
> 
> Shrug.  Whatever suits you best, I guess.  I just hate getting all-tab
> code, since then I have to re-indent it for it to be readable.
> All-space code, on the other hand, always looks fine.

This is entirely understandable, but it's a lot easier to use tabs
when writing (and I really wish it was set to 4 spaces myself). I'm
a gvim user -- I've tried emacs and xemacs and just never could get
into them.  But surely there's a simple way to please both -- aren't
there de-tabbing filters I can use to substitute spaces for tabs
(or vice-versa)?  What _I_ find really irritating is that my code
usually winds up being a mixture of the two.

Recommendations?
-- 
Terry Hancock
hancock at earthlink.net



From grey at despair.rpglink.com  Sat Jan 20 03:49:41 2001
From: grey at despair.rpglink.com (Steve Lamb)
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 08:49:41 -0000
Subject: Why no isexec, isread, iswrite, etc (was: I must be missing something obvious: os.path.isexecutable?)
References: <slrn96enju.g1v.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <slrn96ep7c.g1v.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <slrn96erlf.h11.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <uy9w89kjb.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com>
Message-ID: <slrn96ik94.qf0.grey@teleute.dmiyu.org>

On 19 Jan 2001 00:29:44 -0500, David Bolen <db3l at fitlinxx.com> wrote:
>One possibility is that there's more than one answer to the question
>of "isexec" - it's not a single bit, but one that can exist for all of
>owner, group and world.  Thus, for example, Perl has both -x and -X to
>deal with effective and real uid/gid, but even then the brief writeup
>I found via perldoc doesn't get very descriptive of under precisely
>what conditions they return true.  (E.g., what if it's only other
>executable - is that covered by the "effective uid/gid" of -x?)

    OK, another newbie question coming at'cha...

    I was looking at os.path.isfile, islink, isdir and wondering why there
isn't an isexec, isread, iswrite.  Then hit upon the stat macros, which is
what led to the above answer.  OK, continued on with maybe writing some
isread, iswrite, isexec to be consistant in some manner.

    Then while looking for an answer for another person's question I ran
across os.access().

    Oddly enough it works just fine even though on this install (1.5.2,
Debian) I cannot appear to find where access is defined in os.py or
posixpath.py.  

    Soooooo, right back were we started.  Wouldn't it be easier to have these
with their counterparts in os.path at the very least for consistency's sake?
Glad I found them, though.  Also, does anyone know where they are in the
libraries so I may see the code?

-- 
         Steve C. Lamb         | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your
         ICQ: 5107343          | main connection to the switchboard of souls.
-------------------------------+---------------------------------------------


From emile at fenx.com  Fri Jan  5 16:00:45 2001
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 13:00:45 -0800
Subject: bug with command line option - in 1.5.2?
References: <3a561b87$1_1@news.nwlink.com>
Message-ID: <935cmc$8t6tg$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>

doing

python testpy.py foo

will print 'foo' to stdout.

--

Emile van Sebille
emile at fenx.com
-------------------


"Travis Hume" <travis.hume at tenzing.com> wrote in message
news:3a561b87$1_1 at news.nwlink.com...
> Given a simple python script
>
>
> import sys
> print sys.argv[1]
>
>
> Shouldn't the command
>
> python - foo < testpy.py
>
> print the word foo to stdout?  Instead I'm getting this
>
> ~/tmp >python - foo < testpy.py
> python: can't open file 'foo'
> ~/tmp >
>
> foo should be parsed as an argument to the script read
from stdin.  If
> I'm missing something please tell me so I can get here
document scripts
> working with python.
>
> python v1.5.2
> zsh
> linux 2.4
>
> --
> Travis Hume
> Software Engineer
> Tenzing Communications Inc.
> travis.hume at tenzing.com




From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Thu Jan 25 05:51:42 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 11:51:42 +0100
Subject: __set_attr__
References: <t6v3s5fv3t7f3e@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <94p0ft01v7c@news2.newsguy.com>

"Amritansh Raghav" <amritansh at mobilian.com> wrote in message
news:t6v3s5fv3t7f3e at corp.supernews.com...
> (Newbie alert - its been less than a week)

You're using rather-advanced features, apparently; take care!


> Under what circumstances does __set_attr__ get callled?

It's spelled __setattr__.  It's called, if it exists, each and
every time you set an attribute (either object.attribute=value
syntax, or setattr calls, but not with obj.__dict__['attr']=val,
which is what you may need inside your __setattr__ to avoid
accidentally recursing).


> I thought it was only if the name wasnt found in the dictionary.

This is the semantics of __getattr__.


> This is happening within my constructor so I wonder if I need to do
> something special here

No, the rules don't change, whether __init__ is being executed
at the time, or not.


Alex





From tim.one at home.com  Sun Jan  7 23:43:00 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2001 23:43:00 -0500
Subject: Execution of import (was Re: boolean xor)
In-Reply-To: <3A593361.32C0FBFA@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCMEEEIHAA.tim.one@home.com>

> def xor(a,b):
>     from operator import truth
>     return truth(a) ^ truth(b)

[Peter Hansen]
> An aside: does the 'from .. import' statement  execute every time
> the function 'xor' is called, or only during the execution
> of the 'def' statement?

Every stmt in Python is executable except for "global", and every executable
stmt executes where it looks like it should <wink>.  "from" is the same as
"x=1" in those respects (for that matter, so are "def" and "class").  So,
yes, every time 'xor' is called.  But imported modules are cached in
sys.modules, so anything that imports module X will cause X to get
*executed* only if it's the first time X is imported (by anything) during
the program run.  Imports of X after the first are just lookups, mapping the
module name to the (already executed) module object and retrieving the
latter.

blazingly-fast-ly y'rs  - tim




From s2mdalle at titan.vcu.edu  Wed Jan 24 00:20:55 2001
From: s2mdalle at titan.vcu.edu (David Allen)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 05:20:55 GMT
Subject: Thread interruption
Message-ID: <XCtb6.9449$CP4.2365402@typhoon2.ba-dsg.net>

I'm using the threading module, and creating thread
objects by passing a reference to a function as part
of the object creation (rather than using an object
and overriding run)

My question is, how do I interrupt threads?  In each
thread, there will be blocking system calls happening,
and I need to be able to interrupt the threads very
quickly.  This is not something where select() is
the answer, because I'm worried about blocking
from gethostbyname() and other socket related stuff
too.

Optimally, I would be able to raise an exception in
a thread other than the one I was currently in,
something along the lines of 

someThreadObject.raiseException(KeyboardInterrupt)

or something like that.  But I can't find any 
mechanism to do that.

I've seen the Event objects in the documentation,
but it seems like the thread acknowledging the event
would have to check for it and do something.  In
other words, it looked like you couldn't just 
pass some event object to another thread and have
that thread drop whatever it was doing and deal 
with that.  Can events actually do this?  If so,
I'd appreciate a pointer to some more documentaiton
or a code sample of this in action.

Otherwise, how can I do this?  If I was writing in
C, I might be using multiple processes instead of
threads and maybe I'd kill the process I wanted to
wake up with SIGINT or something like that.  But
from what I've read about threads, if I send a signal,
I can't be assured that any particular thread will
get it, it's just "some arbitrary thread".

On a completely unrelated note, I thought python
threading was done within one process, and that
the threading code had to deal with "timeslicing"
between all the threads that actually belonged to
one process.  But checking the output of 'ps' on
running a threaded python program, actually 4-5
instances of the interpreter seem to be running when
I'm using threads.  What gives?

-- 
David Allen
http://opop.nols.com/
----------------------------------------
Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen. 
- Albert Einstein


From maxm at normik.dk  Tue Jan  9 05:29:08 2001
From: maxm at normik.dk (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Max_M=F8ller_Rasmussen?=)
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 11:29:08 +0100 
Subject: mxTools (was Re: why no "do : until"?)
Message-ID: <7BD10B680501D411B9DF009027E06F32197B86@exchange>

From: Oleg Broytmann [mailto:phd at phd.pp.ru]

>   Anyone here has any doubts that at least mxDateTime simply MUST be in
>the Python core? :)

No that would be a great idea, but doesn't the license prevent that?

Regards Max M



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Tue Jan 30 16:23:59 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 22:23:59 +0100
Subject: arbitrary lists to map
References: <9579v9$osi$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <957bdv01l4v@news2.newsguy.com>

<bernard604 at my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:9579v9$osi$1 at nnrp1.deja.com...
> Is there any way that an arbitrary number of lists (or sequences) can
> be assigned to the sequence parameter of the map(func, sequence)
> function.

If your list of lists is called foo, then map(func, *foo) should do it (in
Python 2 or later; in older Pythons, try apply(map, (func,)+tuple(foo)),
I think that's the equivalent).


Alex





From p at mjs400.co.uk  Sat Jan 13 11:09:48 2001
From: p at mjs400.co.uk (Pete)
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 17:09:48 +0100
Subject: do python programmers avoid the mac? 
Message-ID: <3A607DCC.7EF7809C@mjs400.co.uk>

Ordinary Bloke seeks stable python2.0 mac ide environment for possible
long term development antics. Don't tell me to buy a noisy steenkin
intel fat box.


From joejava at dragonat.net  Fri Jan  5 01:05:35 2001
From: joejava at dragonat.net (Joel Ricker)
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 01:05:35 -0500
Subject: Migrating to perl?
References: <3Fa56.4580$of7.216286@news1.atl> <3A555E34.3E01E4D0@bigfoot.de>
Message-ID: <cxd56.4661$of7.222218@news1.atl>

Gerhard H?ring wrote in message <3A555E34.3E01E4D0 at bigfoot.de>...
>Joel Ricker wrote:
>I guess it really depends on the
>backround you have. If you are a Unix guru and speak awk and sed as a
>native language, then perhaps Perl is what you will love.

Nope I don't.  I'm still trying to make heads or tails of unix.  I have a
telnet connection to my web server which is Linux and fumble around
everytime I have to "inside".

>If you have a
>background from structured programming (Pascal!) or object-oriented
>programming (Ada 95, Java, C++), then Python might be just the scripting
>language you ever dreamed of.


Pascal! Pascal was my first love.  Any comparisons to Python to Pascal will
be just what I'm looking for.

[*snip*]

>If you need some links, here they are:
>
>The Python tutorial:
>http://www.python.org/doc/current/tut/tut.html


Working on it right now.  I'll let everyone know how it goes.
>Python and databases:
>http://www.python.org/topics/database/

>> Perl OO just feels like it has been cludged together.
>
>Really? ;-) Or am I just too stupid to get it?


>From the responses, I feel better that it just isn't me.  I felt like for
every perl concept I'd learn, I'd forget two or get them wrong.  The other
day I was just programming along when I was like damn, how did that hash
syntax go?  .

Thanks
Joel

P.S.  Anybody want to buy about 6 perl books cheap? <wink>







From runyaga at thisbox.com  Wed Jan  3 18:57:29 2001
From: runyaga at thisbox.com (alan runyan)
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2001 17:57:29 -0600
Subject: CGIHTTPServer.py
Message-ID: <7F5BC4310EDD615A.1D87832E39807480.8066D4EF5FF33D4C@lp.airnews.net>

I'm playing around CGIHTTPServer.py and have some problems that I can seem
to fix.  any help would be greatly appreciated.

in the Library Reference it shows its availability as Unix only, why not
Windows?  it seems to work just fine on Windows.

GET appears to work just fine on both unix and win32.  (this is a
SimpleHTTPServer, not CGIHTTPServer's job)

POST appears to be broke on both Unix and Windows (kinda)

Here are some problems I'm seeing after I try to POST to a cgi:
running Unix: (Linux w/ ActivePython2.0)
    - in all browsers it appears to POST but never exec the cgi.  just
doesnt appear to work.  on Python1.5 it was reported (by friend) the same
behavior.

Windows (W2K Professional ActivePython2.0)
    - in Internet Explorer 5.0 it appears the server breaks the connection
before the entire buffer is read (?)  causing a server reset the connection
message box to pop up.
   - Netscape6 works fine

I looked around, but couldnt figure it out.  would appreciate any help.
maybe the Content length isnt being reported properly? does CGIHTTPServer.py
run on Mac?

thanks,
~runyaga






From pbjorn at uswest.net  Mon Jan  1 16:12:26 2001
From: pbjorn at uswest.net (Bjorn Pettersen)
Date: Mon, 01 Jan 2001 14:12:26 -0700
Subject: Recursion
References: <mailman.978382742.16948.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3A50F2B9.9612F18D@uswest.net>

It's all a question of wheter you use regular integers, or long integers:

>>> def fact(n):
...  if n==1:
...   return 1L
...  else:
...   return n*fact(n-1L)
...
>>> fact(12L)
479001600L
>>> fact(100L)
93326215443944152681699238856266700490715968264381621468592963895217599993229915

608941463976156518286253697920827223758251185210916864000000000000000000000000L
>>> fact(800L)
77105301133538600414463939777502836059555640181601023916341099403397085182709306

93670907697955390330926478612242306774446597851526397454014801846531749097625044

70638274259120173309701702610875092918816846985842150593623718603861642063078834

11723409851372526504540252305657565886062123887041264021962997102468682662471338

36609631270481955722797077116883526202598691409949012878957472904107224961061519

54257267396322405556727354786893725785838732404646243357335918597747405776328924

77589756451958359135408089811702313276225071405727134411094816402994058882784778

04423144732004795251383182083024277278031332193052109525076059489943143454493252

59594876385922128494560437296428386002940601874072732488897504223793518377180605

44178311664970826994606138023053101829193051074866557780301452325179779038861503

37565448303749094401622701829523033290917204382106370971056162583870518840302889

33650309756289188364568672104084185529365727646234588306683493594765274559497543

75965173369982063973170211691296324744129420029780008706172586822388086524358336

56234827043958936527118407354187997737630548875882199439846734010513622803841878

18611005035187862707840912942753454646054674870155072495767509778534059298038364

20407629904807293450104625517537832300821767073164951995569908448233079881104916

62762492513265443125802893578129248258982174628482976483494008388154101528724567

07653654424335818651136964880049831580548028614922852377435001511377656015730959

25464717129093051734036728765700760617767548383052149970787344901684440239020374

66330869697476806714685416872658236379220074138491185934877102728831649055487071

98762911703545119701275432473548172544699118836274377270607420652133092686282081

77738367448788162880080192810301583282102128632212046087494169719948775876973054

49220123896945049600000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000

00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000

000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000L


Bob Calco wrote:

> Anyone:
>
> I noticed the following while dabbling in Perl, Ruby and Python recently.
> Take your standard factorial implementation, a la:
>
> PYTHON
> ======
> import sys
>
> def factor(n):
>   if n == 1:
>     return 1
>   else:
>     return n*factor(n-1)
>
> print factor(int(sys.argv[1]))
>
> fact.pl
> =======
> sub fact {
>   my($n) = shift;
>   if ($n eq 1) {
>     return 1;
>   } else {
>     return ($n * fact($n-1));
>   }
> }
> print fact($ARGV[0]), "\n";
>
> fact.rb
> =======
> def fact(n)
>   if n == 1
>     1
>   else
>     n*fact(n-1)
>   end
> end
> print fact(ARGV[0].to_i), "\n"
>
> The highest value for n you can run in Python is 12; after that you get
> overflow error messages. In Perl, the largest value is 170 (after which you
> get 1.#INF for an answer). In Ruby, you can input a value as high as 763
> before you get a SystemStackError (stack level too deep) error.
>
> Couple questions:
>
> 1. Why the vast difference between the languages? Is this apparent
> limitation in Python deliberate, or the consequence of some other design
> decision?
>
> 2. In the real world, does this really matter? Does Ruby have any meaningful
> advantage over Python in this regard? (I understand I might get different
> replies if I asked this question on the Ruby email list. I have different
> questions for Ruby fans!)
>
> I'm trying to decide which of these languages to embed in my application or
> at the very least require in the user environment. I like all of them, and I
> lean toward Python because it's much cleaner than Perl and more mature than
> Ruby and Mark Hammond's Win32 extenstion fully supports COM on Win32, which
> would make it a very useful framework for prototyping our COM objects and
> developing our own test suites to exercise them when they are implemented in
> C++. But I was surprised to find such a difference when testing each
> language's support for recursion.
>
> Any thoughts welcome.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Bob Calco
> CorTechs, Inc.
> rcalco at cortechs.com



From db3l at fitlinxx.com  Tue Jan 16 23:19:09 2001
From: db3l at fitlinxx.com (David Bolen)
Date: 16 Jan 2001 23:19:09 -0500
Subject: threading: how to kill a (possibly blocked) thread?
References: <3A649FE4.E582D0E0@ll.mit.edu>
Message-ID: <u1yu2vmiq.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com>

George Young <gry at ll.mit.edu> writes:

> Is there a way to get a 'thread' reference from my Threading object
> and call it's exit function?  Will this confuse Threading and break
> other things?

Unless the exit() is called from within the thread itself, it won't
terminate the thread, and no, I'm not aware of any way to externally
terminate a Python thread - at least not cleanly or in a supported manner.

Terminating a thread externally (from another thread) is not something
supported in most threading systems/OSs.  Those that have had some
mechanism have, I believe, had trouble ensuring proper behavior.  Most
systems recover resources at the process level, so cleanup on a
per-thread basis is not reliable.

What you really need to do is ensure that your threads can accept an
external request to terminate themselves, and then code the threads
defensively to ensure they check for such requests at some periodic
interval.  It's not always the simplest approach, but it's one of the
fairly standard consequences of threaded development.

Python threads are pretty nice in that your class representing your
thread can provide some extra methods that are actually intended to be
called from some other thread in order to set the signaling, avoiding
some of the global flag objects that tend to get used in other
threading environments.

For example, when your thread starts up, it can create an event object
in the reset state and store it within the object instance.  It could
then provide a method that a main application thread could call to
request the thread to exit which in turn would set that internal event
object.  The method is running within the context of the main
application thread, but accessing shared instance data which will then
be checked by the separate thread running that object.  The main
thread code should then check the event object periodically and exit
nicely if it is set.

This does mean that you have to keep the thread from blocking
indefinitely.  It doesn't mean you can't block at all, depending on
how much latency you are willing to put up with should you wish to
exit, or if the blocking is related to multi-thread interaction.  For
example, if you know that you may be blocked in an acquire() call,
your design may assure you of eventually getting control back as the
other threads begin to terminate (and given that at least one thread
must have the lock, and presumably is checking its exit flag while not
blocked).  With I/O, you should operate in a non-blocking or
interruptible mode (using select() for sockets, or files under Unix,
etc...) where you can get a periodic chance to check for the
termination request.

--
-- David
-- 
/-----------------------------------------------------------------------\
 \               David Bolen            \   E-mail: db3l at fitlinxx.com  /
  |             FitLinxx, Inc.            \  Phone: (203) 708-5192    |
 /  860 Canal Street, Stamford, CT  06902   \  Fax: (203) 316-5150     \
\-----------------------------------------------------------------------/


From clarence at netlojix.com  Wed Jan 24 14:02:36 2001
From: clarence at netlojix.com (Clarence Gardner)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 11:02:36 -0800
Subject: EOF on ssl'd socket
Message-ID: <980363195.58852411@news.silcom.com>

Sorry to second guess the author, but I'm surprised to see that an
SSL socket in 2.1a1 raises an exception at EOF, rather than just
returning a zero-length string like a clear socket does.

Any opinions on this?

--
Clarence Gardner
Software Engineer
NetLojix Communications
clarence at netlojix.com



From fredrik at effbot.org  Sun Jan 21 04:47:28 2001
From: fredrik at effbot.org (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 09:47:28 GMT
Subject: How do I know all thrown exceptions of a function?
References: <g3lb49.73s.ln@127.0.0.1> <94d93h$55d$1@troll.powertech.no> <mailman.980059223.25947.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Qeya6.7932$AH6.1260668@newsc.telia.net>

Sean Reifschneider wrote:
> Yeah, I suppose so.  I don't think you should *HAVE* to review the code of
> the libraries you call, AND *EVERYTHING* that *THEY* call.  It's not an
> effective use of my time...

yeah, and what's worse, having to *TEST* your code before
shipping just sucks...

Cheers /F




From rturpin at my-deja.com  Fri Jan  5 13:40:41 2001
From: rturpin at my-deja.com (rturpin at my-deja.com)
Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 18:40:41 GMT
Subject: How robust is Python ?
References: <LOBBJMHOIFOLFIPFANHJAEJFCHAA.zope@TheWebsons.com> <mailman.978716227.31692.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9354f9$vbi$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

In article <mailman.978716227.31692.python-list at python.org>,
  Moshe Zadka <moshez at zadka.site.co.il> wrote:
> .. in my experience, Python is just as robust as Java.
> Or are you using a definition of robust other then
> "crashes very little".

That's an interesting comment. We're planning an "always
up" application, that launches at boot, runs until next
restart or shutdown, and does a lot of work in between.
I'd like to use Python. I've been working under the
assumption that it is adequately robust for this purpose.

Does anyone want to caution me on this?

Regards,
Russell



Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From jkndeja at my-deja.com  Wed Jan 10 04:39:31 2001
From: jkndeja at my-deja.com (jkndeja at my-deja.com)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 09:39:31 GMT
Subject: escape sequences and string comparisons
References: <93cboe$ctj$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <93elo7$aoh$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <93f1rd$iv7$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <2wG66.4330$AH6.750256@newsc.telia.net>
Message-ID: <93haki$c0h$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

Hello Fredrik

> jkndeja at my-deja.com talks to himself again:

one of the joys of posting, shurely... ;-/

> > - I still think this makes re.escape() less useful than it
> > might be. How about a function which turns a string into an
'escaped'
> > form such that it would be an 'exact' RE match with itself?
>
> That's *exactly* what re.escape() does, of course.

OK, perhaps I shouldn't have written 'RE' match above. What I was
hoping/expecting is that this:

>>> import re
>>> s = r'[123]'
>>> r = re.escape(s)
>>> r
'\\[123\\]'
>>> r == s
0
>>>

or something similar, would give 1, not zero

    Jon N


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From phlip_cpp at my-deja.com  Mon Jan  8 19:11:13 2001
From: phlip_cpp at my-deja.com (Phlip)
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 16:11:13 -0800
Subject: CXX/Array.h's Py::Array samples or documentation?
Message-ID: <XHs66.282$ip2.91379@news.pacbell.net>

Pythonesqueise:

I want to pass a NumPy multiarray into a C++ function (incidentally 
bound by SWIG), and wrap it with the CXX module's Py::Array class.

Then I want to increase the volume of this multiarray, fill it full of 
data, and pass it back up. Client code in Pythonland will then ufunc the 
data and do other terrible things to it.

I can't figure out how to extend the array. It does not seem to have a 
"push" feature.

So I think I can allocate a new array of the correct dimensions; pack it, 
and assign it into the target array. But the example code for Py::Array 
only shows how to create it with one dimension.

E-searching for "cxx" and "array" returns many, many interesting pages that 
will distract me learning new things about completely unrelated projects. 
The CXX documentation was wrought before Array.h was added.

Is there any example code or documentation I'm missing for Py::Array? Or 
multiarray?

-- 
Phlip
http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?PhlIp


From r2d2 at mao.acc.umu.se  Mon Jan 29 04:19:09 2001
From: r2d2 at mao.acc.umu.se (Niklas Frykholm)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 09:19:09 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Python vs Ruby
References: <94mdkd$222e$1@news.adamastor.ac.za> <p6qwvbjtr97.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de> <mailman.980510622.2558.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrn97adcd.scu.r2d2@mao.acc.umu.se>

>> #  Ruby is often faster than Python.
>> That I would not believe without proof.

>Some time ago I tested Ruby vs Python:
>I made a program that calculates a fibonacci numbers.
>Python was as double as fast (Win95). Maybe that is because
>in Ruby a number is a class, in Python not.

My experience is similar. I recently implemented a program in both languages
using the same algorithms. The Python program ran in 4s, while the Ruby
program took 10s. It was a mathematical program so it was quite heavy on
number-crunching and function calls.

RUBY'S WINNING POINTS (IMHO)

    - Nicer class structure. Everything can be subclassed. You do not have
      to worry about whether something is a function or a method.

    - Iterators beat list comprehension.

    - Singleton classes are nice.

    - No "magic names" for operators (__add__). No "magic naming conventions"
      for private methods.

    - "#{k+1}" beats "%i" % (k+1)


PYTHON'S WINNING POINTS (IMHO)

    - Python's print is more pragmatic.

    - Less Perl pollution -- no magic variables.

    - Parser does not choke on programs with unusual spacing. The error
      messages are usually better.

    - Excellent documentation (you don't have to learn Japanese).

    - Batteries included -- much better standard libraries.


AND I WISH THEY WOULD BOTH STOP DOING

    - Automatic promotion of integers to floats...


I'll probably keep using both languages.

// Niklas


From ssthapa at harper.uchicago.edu  Tue Jan 16 12:29:59 2001
From: ssthapa at harper.uchicago.edu (ssthapa at harper.uchicago.edu)
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 17:29:59 GMT
Subject: A small suggestion for Python
References: <3A5F27F7.30268D9A@erols.com> <G74HuE.AGn.0.sinope@news.jtan.com> <93qpbc02n4a@news1.newsguy.com> <G7595o.HKE.0.sinope@news.jtan.com> <93rumc01013@news1.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <slrn9644e9.lf.ssthapa@ntcs-ip45.uchicago.edu>

Alex Martelli <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote:
>"Matt Dunford" <kno at jtan.com> wrote in message
>> I have no problem with it.  But just to be pendantic, your return_sorted
>def
>> doesn't do what I'm trying to get at.  I'm thinking more along the lines
>of
>>
>> def return_sorted(alist):
>>     import copy
>>     sorted = copy.copy(alist)
>>     sorted.sort()
>>     return sorted
>
>I would call this return_sorted_copy.  It's not needed, often, and in
>particular
>it is not for the idiom you mentioned -- why make a totally needless copy of
>the temporary list that .keys returns?  I'm anything but a speed freak, but
>I
>don't normally copy data just for the fun of it:-).

    Also there are times when making copies is not possible or would be 
the wrong thing to do.  For example if the array contains objects representing
email messages which you sort based on time.  Copying the emails may not be 
pratical especially if they contain large attachments.

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------
			    |
Suchandra Thapa             | "There are only two kinds of math books. 
s-thapaNO at SPAMuchicago.edu  | Those you cannot read beyond the first 
			    | sentence, and those you cannot read 
			    | beyond the first page."
			    |                       -C.N. Yang
------------------------------------------------------------------


From michael at stroeder.com  Sat Jan 27 09:07:09 2001
From: michael at stroeder.com (Michael =?iso-8859-1?Q?Str=F6der?=)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 15:07:09 +0100
Subject: Interested in a Crypto-SIG?
References: <3A72C8A3.C4B4D69A@stroeder.com> <3a72d11f.17643900@news.skynet.be>
Message-ID: <3A72D60D.9351601A@stroeder.com>

Daniel wrote:
> 
> On Sat, 27 Jan 2001 14:09:55 +0100, Michael =?iso-8859-1?Q?Str=F6der?=
> <michael at stroeder.com> wrote:
> 
> >I would like to propose a Crypto-SIG.
> >Let me know what you think.
> 
> It would be nice to have the new AES in a Python module, just like
> BlowFish, TwoFish, TDES, etc.   All of these algorithms (written in C)
> can be readily found on the net. 

Yes, there are already a lot of implementations of cryptographic
algorithms floating around. My main concern is that they all have
different APIs. Not easy for application programmers to choose the
right lib.

> Not a very easy subject, though...

Yes. That's why I would like to bring together all the isolated
efforts and focus on creating a unified API.

Ciao, Michael.


From erno-news at erno.iki.fi  Mon Jan 22 14:50:10 2001
From: erno-news at erno.iki.fi (Erno Kuusela)
Date: 22 Jan 2001 21:50:10 +0200
Subject: Modifying .htpasswd from Python?
References: <90312091gustaflalgonetse@194.213.69.148> <3A6BCCEC.EA8CE857@stroeder.com> <90316137Fgustaflalgonetse@194.213.69.148> <heXa6.47831$LZ5.441426@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <ku66j79xjh.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>

[i didn't get the start of the thread on my news server]

|| >Gustaf Liljegren wrote:
|| >>
|| >> This can be done easily in Perl, using the crypt() function. Now I
|| >> need a Python function doing exactly the same encryption as the
|| >> htpasswd command.

looks like you can also use md5 and sha1 passwords in an apache
password file. at least th htpassword program claims to have support
for them. i believe the python md5 module is there by default, it
might be wisest to use it.

disclaimer: i haven't tried it.

  -- erno


From bravotwozero at goingplatinum.com  Wed Jan 17 03:15:10 2001
From: bravotwozero at goingplatinum.com (bravotwozero at goingplatinum.com)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 03:15:10 -0500 (EST)
Subject: An Invitation From JJ Hughes 
Message-ID: <6299744.979719310671.JavaMail.platweb@atl7mhfl0079>

An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20010117/99623708/attachment.html>

From amritansh at mobilian.com  Tue Jan 30 21:56:19 2001
From: amritansh at mobilian.com (Amritansh Raghav)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 18:56:19 -0800
Subject: Extending struct.unpack
Message-ID: <t7evmnoqmpii83@corp.supernews.com>

I have a buffer of data which I want to unpack but one of the unpacked
fields is not an inbuilt specifier to struct.unpack(). I would like to
extend unpack so that it can take a new format specifier, call out to my
function when it encounters that format character, and then continue
unpacking after 'n' characters (the value 'n' being returned by the function
that is called out to).
Is there any way of accomplishing this?
Thanks

p.s (for more info - the buffer i want to unpack contains an ethernet
address which is 6 bytes. currently i unpack it using 6B, but i would like
to specify it as say E and have unpack return a 6byte long number)




From tim.one at home.com  Thu Jan 25 04:35:04 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 04:35:04 -0500
Subject: beep again
In-Reply-To: <94oa8d$ibu$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCOECAILAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Mark Hammond, on the great non-beeping beep mystery]
> We learn something new every day :-)

Speak for yourself!  If I admitted to learning something new on *any* day,
all my previous prouncements would be open to question.  I learned this
trick from Guido <wink>.

> I just had a look at the MS documentation for this function [Win32
> Beep()], and it states at the bottom:
> """
> Remarks
> Windows 95: The Beep function ignores the dwFreq and dwDuration
> parameters. On computers with a sound card, the function plays the
> default sound event. On computers without a sound card, the function
> plays the standard system beep.
> """
>
> Not much we can do about it that I can see, except possibly add a note
> to the docstring.

Life could have been worse.  The Excel macro function BEEP is documented as:

    BEEP(tone_num)

    Tone_num is a number from 1 to 4 specifying the tone to be played.

    On most computers, all numbers produce the same sound ...

Sometimes it's hard to believe these things were carefully designed in
advance <wink>.

I'll change the module docs; you can change the docstring.

I suppose the other choice is to remap this to the MS MessageBeep(MB_OK)
function, so it plays the default sound on *all* systems.

na-half-the-joy-of-windows-is-guessing-what-will-happen-
    next-ly y'rs  - tim




From embed at NO_SPAM_PLEASE.geocities.com  Fri Jan  5 09:11:39 2001
From: embed at NO_SPAM_PLEASE.geocities.com (Warren Postma)
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 09:11:39 -0500
Subject: embedded python - cancel "while 1: pass"
References: <mailman.978625931.30488.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <YDk56.307$Oe.2551@tor-nn1.netcom.ca>

>    Wow, it seems you are a Windows guy! Why not just kill the process
> instead of rebooting everything?

Nope, embedded win32 realtime-operating-system (pharlap ets -
www.pharlap.com ).

It so happens that I can build test/debug builds that run on NT, but the
final target is a single process with no virtual memory, running on a small
pc-104 cpu.   There is no way to kill a process without rebooting the
machine as the RTOS *is* the single
process.

I have figured out the problem is that only the foreground thread can be
aborted, the background threads cannot be aborted.

Ie, if you do

X = 2L ** 2L ** 256

in the foreground, it will be abortable.

In a background thread (which is how I do everything in this system) nothing
can be aborted.  I have decided to patch Python 1.5.2 to have thread-based
signals.

I noticed a comment in ceval.c, that said someone else has the same thought
as me, was it Guido?

-- (snippet) --

There are two possible race conditions:
   (1) nested asynchronous registry calls;
   (2) registry calls made while pending calls are being processed.
   While (1) is very unlikely, (2) is a real possibility.
   The current code is safe against (2), but not against (1).
   The safety against (2) is derived from the fact that only one
   thread (the main thread) ever takes things out of the queue.

XXX Darn!  With the advent of thread state, we should have an array
   of pending calls per thread in the thread state!  Later...

-- (end snippet) --

Since Pharlap has no "registry", I don't know what equivalent trouble
"nested asynchronous registry calls" might get me in on PharLap, but so far,
so good. I have removed the checks to see if thread id == main_thread.

Warren




From wlsonna at attglobal.net  Sun Jan 28 09:31:08 2001
From: wlsonna at attglobal.net (William Sonna)
Date: 28 Jan 2001 14:31:08 GMT
Subject: PyMacs vs. Pym (was: Pyditor, Text editor fully extendible in python a la' Emacs)
References: <20010127193848.59d0f64b.ngreco@softhome.net><HBEJKOJGHBOIBHLHPMKGIEAACIAA.rcalco@cortechs.com> <mailman.980638952.20592.python-list@python.org> <950k0f01tco@news2.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <0O7zTzsxerl5-pn2-xdzE56cler1k@bill>

On Sun, 28 Jan 2001 08:06:49, "Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com> 
wrote:

> "Nahuel Greco" <ngreco at softhome.net> wrote in message
> news:mailman.980638952.20592.python-list at python.org...
>     [snip]
> > > By the way, my ideal text editor will also keep my coffee cup full of
> warm,
> > > fresh Expresso while I'm working. Haven't found one yet that can do
> that,
>     [snip]
> > > I'll have to insist on the java (small j) support...
> >
> > why java? (maybe we can do an editor and a language flamewar in the same
> thread! :)
> 
> 'java' is a common US term for 'coffee' (which is why Sun's "Java" has a
> coffee-cup logo).  I fully agree we need a flamewar on _that_ language
> oddity, given that coffee originated from Eastern Africa (presumably
> near the town named Kaffa, in Ethiopia) and the best current varieties
> are grown in Brazil and brewed in Italy (even Starbucks acknowledges
> the latter implicitly with their Italianoid naming for their concoctions),
> so, why should the largest island of _Indonesia_ give it its name...?!
> 

Balooey!

The best coffee in the world is ACTUALLY grown AND brewed in COSTA 
RICA.

In fact, my sources tell me the language was developed under the code 
name SAN JOSE.

It was changed to "Java" for fear of a copyright suit by the Vatican -
apparently the names of saints are not GPL'd !!!!

Since I'm under a strict non-disclosure agreement, I can't divulge any
more details............ask John Paul II if you don't believe me.


From b012414 at mail.dvz.fh-koeln.de  Tue Jan 23 05:23:40 2001
From: b012414 at mail.dvz.fh-koeln.de (Stephan Effelsberg)
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 11:23:40 +0100
Subject: observer design pattern
References: <94i340$4er$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <3A6CA19C.89A6DFB2@attglobal.net> <3A6D0992.C86D92CD@home.com>
Message-ID: <3A6D5BAB.2AB22E36@mail.dvz.fh-koeln.de>


Rick Lee schrieb:

> What Design Patterns book are you referring to?

He will most likely refer to the GoF book (Design Patterns, Addison-Wesley)
and translated the C++ example into Python.
There's no Python-specific pattern book out yet (at least, I don't know any).




From rubeel at qafac.com.qa  Wed Jan 31 06:37:28 2001
From: rubeel at qafac.com.qa (Rubeel)
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 14:37:28 +0300
Subject: (no subject)
Message-ID: <06df01c08b7a$86ff1970$1e0a140a@qafac.com.qa>





From emile at fenx.com  Sun Jan 21 15:05:23 2001
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 12:05:23 -0800
Subject: Translating a Perl script into Python
References: <vo9i6t04nhurgv2avmgoss4mg86ofcuhtv@4ax.com> <94d4hk$1sq$1@animus.fel.iae.nl> <i47k6t4i2vu0tgr9kd9l5udnk8q72d8648@4ax.com> <94ddks$ff9$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <4tsk6t8ia6j55c1luv9l9tdqdfd6ljs8aj@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <94fffr$dr30h$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>

% based string formatting requires either a single argument,
or a tuple.  When using %(keyVal) substitution in the format
string, a single dictionary object may be used.  In this
case, only simple string keyVals are interpreted.
Otherwise, all single arguments must follow the type the %
substitution expected, ie %d accepts numbers, %s accepts
anything with a valid str/repr representation, etc.


--

Emile van Sebille
emile at fenx.com
-------------------


"Sheila King" <sheila at thinkspot.net> wrote in message
news:4tsk6t8ia6j55c1luv9l9tdqdfd6ljs8aj at 4ax.com...
> On Sun, 21 Jan 2001 01:22:40 GMT, Hamish Lawson
<hamish_lawson at yahoo.co.uk>
> wrote in comp.lang.python in article
<94ddks$ff9$1 at nnrp1.deja.com>:
>
> :It's more general and more powerful than that. The %
operator takes a
> :string on the left and a single value, tuple, list or
dictionary on the
> :right and produces a string by substituting the %
placeholders in the
> :left-hand operand with values from the right-hand
operand. Note that %
> :inside a string doesn't have any special meaning in
itself; it's the %
> :operator that treats it as placeholder. Thus
> :
> :    a = "His name is %s and his age is %d"
> :    b = ['Bob', 42]
> :    print a % b
>
> Thanks. I think it's starting to creep into my head, now.
Your examples
> helped. I've saved them in my file of examples.
>
> --
> Sheila King
> http://www.thinkspot.net/sheila/
> http://www.k12groups.org/
>




From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Tue Jan 23 07:02:52 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 13:02:52 +0100
Subject: Markov.py
References: <94eavq$5cl$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <94eulk$dduhj$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de> <3A6B7716.68A62115@home.com> <94h5he$9kl$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <94ides$6t2$1@animus.fel.iae.nl>
Message-ID: <94jrt701eg4@news1.newsguy.com>

"Carel Fellinger" <cfelling at iae.nl> wrote in message
news:94ides$6t2$1 at animus.fel.iae.nl...
    [snip]
> well I don't, so please enlighten me: what's a markov chain?

A somewhat complex (but complete, correct, concise) definition
can be found at http://pespmc1.vub.ac.be/ASC/MARKOV_CHAIN.html.

A more readable (and equally concise, but a bit less rigorous)
definition is at http://rkb.home.cern.ch/rkb/AN16pp/node162.html.

If you really want to look into this, you may start at
http://www.math.nyu.edu/phd_students/campbelm/stuff/random/markov.html
which is a collection of (a few) bibliographical references and
(a lot of) web links on Markov chains and Hidden Markov Models.

I have a tender spot in my heart for HMM's ever since using
them in the early '80s for speech recognition and natural
language modeling... they give you all that 'neural networks'
are supposed to, with a very solid and mature mathematical basis
["everything is an application of Bayes' Theorem"!-)] and, as
a result, lots of confidence in the results you're getting!


Alex





From kpmurphy at my-deja.com  Tue Jan 23 14:43:35 2001
From: kpmurphy at my-deja.com (Keith Murphy)
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 19:43:35 GMT
Subject: sockets: client dies...
Message-ID: <94kmt5$cuj$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

what can you do when the client dies in a client/server socket
relationship?  currently, my problem is that the server doesn't know
when a client has terminated unexpectedly.  is there any way to do so?

::keith


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From barry at digicool.com  Fri Jan  5 12:51:34 2001
From: barry at digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 12:51:34 -0500
Subject: [ANNOUNCE] Mailman 2.0.1
Message-ID: <14934.2470.96083.770358@anthem.wooz.org>

I'm please to announce the 2.0.1 release of Mailman, the GNU Mailing
List Manager.  Mailman is released under the GNU General Public
License (GPL).  Version 2.0.1 fixes a few bugs in Mailman 2.0 and is
being released as both a gzip'd source tarball and as a patchfile.

Mailman is software to help manage electronic mail discussion lists,
much like Majordomo or Smartmail.  Mailman gives each mailing list a
unique web page and allows users to subscribe, unsubscribe, and change
their account options over the web.  Even the list manager can
administer his or her list entirely via the web.  Mailman has most of
the features that people want in a mailing list management system,
including built-in archiving, mail-to-news gateways, spam filters,
bounce detection, digest delivery, and so on.

Mailman is compatible with most web servers, web browsers, and mail
servers.  It should run on any Unix-like operating system.  Mailman
2.0.1 requires Python 1.5.2 or newer.  To install Mailman from
source, you will need a C compiler.

For more information on Mailman, including links to file downloads,
please see the following mirrors:

    http://mailman.sourceforge.net
    http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman.html
    http://www.list.org

[only the sourceforge site is up-to-date at the moment, the others
will be updated soon.]

There are email lists (managed by Mailman, of course!) for both
Mailman users and developers.  See the web sites above for details.

Enjoy,
-Barry




From b012414 at mail.dvz.fh-koeln.de  Wed Jan 10 06:51:22 2001
From: b012414 at mail.dvz.fh-koeln.de (Stephan Effelsberg)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 12:51:22 +0100
Subject: Problem with __del__ (thanks)
References: <3A5B6434.2BD6FEF6@mail.dvz.fh-koeln.de> <1OJ66.4624$AH6.762498@newsc.telia.net>
Message-ID: <3A5C4CBA.4154AFCA@mail.dvz.fh-koeln.de>

Indeed, this helps!

I use a C extension module for some hardware access. I want to (have to!)
reinitialize the hardware if the program exits in an unusual way (e.g.
keyboard interrupt), and I thought using the destructor of the controlling
class to do this job would be the proper way.

Thanks!




From db3l at fitlinxx.com  Mon Jan 15 19:04:13 2001
From: db3l at fitlinxx.com (David Bolen)
Date: 15 Jan 2001 19:04:13 -0500
Subject: how do i disable buffered output, like Perl's '$|=1'?
References: <979490967.23219.0.pluto.d4ee691b@news.demon.nl>
Message-ID: <u4rz0icqq.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com>

"floR" <flor_pino at hotmail.com> writes:

> I can't find anywhere how I can disable 'buffered output', or whatever it is
> called.
> In Perl, you simply say $|=1, but in Python?
> Can anyone help me?

I'm not aware of any built-in way to permanently disable buffering
from within a script, although you can of course flush a file object
when appropriate.  However, you can also pretty easily wrap sys.stdout
(or any file object you are using) with an auto-flushing class, for
example:

    class FlushFile:

	def __init__ (self, file):
	    self.file = file

	def write(self, data):
	    self.file.write(data)
	    self.file.flush()

	def __getattr__(self, attr):
	    return getattr(self.file,attr)

If you were controlling flushing of your own files you could:

    file = FlushFile(open('filename','w'))

or just pass in any file handle that you have gotten from elsewhere in
your script.  Or for standard output, something like:

    sys.stdout = FlushFile(old_stdout)

(Note that in the latter case you should save sys.stdout for later
 restoration, and don't use it for output - say for debugging - in the
 write() method or you'll infinitely recurse)

After this, any references to that file will include autoflushing (not
necessarily at the byte by byte level, but following any output call).

In addition, and unlike Perl, you can control the buffering of Python
externally to the script.  For me, this has actually be more
convenient, since I normally want buffering control when I'm wrapping
an existing script into some other process, and would rather not have
to edit the script.

You can either use the "-u" command line option or set a
PYTHONUNBUFFERED environment variable to disable all buffering for any
scripts run by an interpreter that has that setting.

--
-- David
-- 
/-----------------------------------------------------------------------\
 \               David Bolen            \   E-mail: db3l at fitlinxx.com  /
  |             FitLinxx, Inc.            \  Phone: (203) 708-5192    |
 /  860 Canal Street, Stamford, CT  06902   \  Fax: (203) 316-5150     \
\-----------------------------------------------------------------------/


From joejava at dragonat.net  Wed Jan 24 23:34:08 2001
From: joejava at dragonat.net (Joel Ricker)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 23:34:08 -0500
Subject: CGI Source examples?
Message-ID: <Y6Ob6.1397$OP4.53952@news1.atl>

    Does anybody know where I can find or would be willing to share the
source code for say a small to medium sized dynamic site written in Python?
I'd kind of like to see the right way (or at least a working way) of doing
this sort of thing.  I've read through the cgi module information but would
like to see how someone else put them together to make them work well --
especially to see how people do authentication and security.  Most of the
information I find is either very basic information (small one time, one
page scripts) or perl-centric scripts which I would like to stay away from.

    Any information would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
Joel





From tim.one at home.com  Fri Jan 12 17:11:02 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 17:11:02 -0500
Subject: pattern matching in python
In-Reply-To: <CC59868A0A76D311B1F50090277B321C1F37AB@VRTMAIL>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCEEFCIIAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Tim]
> ...
> Yup.  Guido has mentioned that he might drop the arglist gimmick in
> P3K, though, as it's conspicuous by absence in real Python programs.
> Or maybe I made that up!  It's hard to tell.

[Mike Fletcher]
> Curse you!

Curse me?!  I'm not Guido.  I curse him too, damn his perfidious Dutch
bones.

> My code uses the arglist gimmick all over the place, especially
> in the parse-tree processors.  Once again we, the people, are
> marginalised by the dictator perched on his natty red sofa in the
> palace.   Some day, mark my words, the people of the automatically-
> unpacking tuple arguments shall rise up and overthrow this
> tyrannical government!
>
> My people, rally to me!  They cannot kill us all!  They dictators
> cannot hold on to power forever!  They would not dare to strike us
> down if we all<pop>(urk)

Let that be an object lesson to other troublemakers!  Guido *loved* Mike as
he would a son; or perhaps as a father, depending on their relative ages.
If Guido could do that to someone he loved, what might he do to you?  Think
about it.

In any case, I doubt that sequence-unpacking in arglists will actually go
away.  So, like most of Guido's would-be usurpers, your death was needless.

feel-free-to-resurrect-if-it's-not-too-late-ly y'rs  - tim




From aa8vb at yahoo.com  Mon Jan 22 13:47:26 2001
From: aa8vb at yahoo.com (Randall Hopper)
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 13:47:26 -0500
Subject: How do I know all thrown exceptions of a function?
In-Reply-To: <Qeya6.7932$AH6.1260668@newsc.telia.net>; from fredrik@effbot.org
 on Sun, Jan 21, 2001 at 09:47:28AM +0000
References: <g3lb49.73s.ln@127.0.0.1> <94d93h$55d$1@troll.powertech.no>
 <mailman.980059223.25947.python-list@python.org>
 <Qeya6.7932$AH6.1260668@newsc.telia.net>
Message-ID: <20010122134726.A6348202@vislab.epa.gov>

Fredrik Lundh:
 |Sean Reifschneider wrote:
 |> Yeah, I suppose so.  I don't think you should *HAVE* to review the code of
 |> the libraries you call, AND *EVERYTHING* that *THEY* call.  It's not an
 |> effective use of my time...
 |
 |yeah, and what's worse, having to *TEST* your code before
 |shipping just sucks...

Like Steve, I think this is a bit too harsh.  What exceptions a public API
can throw is part of its interface, just like parameters and return values.

In Python's present form which is light on strict definitions, this is
arguably not a big issue.  But in the future when typing is added to
interfaces, exceptions need to be included in that signature.  

Groveling through library code for rare exception conditions (initially,
and for each dependency version update) isn't a productive use of a
developer's time.

-- 
Randall Hopper
aa8vb at yahoo.com



From morten at esol.no  Sun Jan 21 11:06:04 2001
From: morten at esol.no (Morten W. Petersen)
Date: 21 Jan 2001 17:06:04 +0100
Subject: Ensuring exclusive file locks on UNIX platforms
Message-ID: <lqvgr86gb7.fsf@snacks.esol.no>

Hi,

I've got a standalone script which I need to make sure doesn't
access a file while another process is running the same script.

Is there a way to ensure exclusive access to the file using
some existing python module, or do I need to add a .<filename>.lock
'hack' ?

Thanks in advance.

-Morten


From tim.one at home.com  Fri Jan 12 03:19:16 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 03:19:16 -0500
Subject: pattern matching in python
In-Reply-To: <slrn95tbua.h32.quinn@euro.ugcs.caltech.edu>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCMEDBIIAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Quinn Dunkan]
> Every once in a while, I remember that python does basic tuple
> pattern-matching, which doesn't seem to come up much in the
> documentation, except for things like 'a, b = f()'.  Specifically,
> nested matching, like:
>
> t = [ (1, (2, 3), 4), ]
> for (a, (x, y), b) in t: ...
>
> I recently noticed, that, of course,
>
> def f(a, (x, y), b): ...
>
> works too.  Is this standard, documented behaviour that can be
> relied on?

Yup.  Guido has mentioned that he might drop the arglist gimmick in P3K,
though, as it's conspicuous by absence in real Python programs.  Or maybe I
made that up!  It's hard to tell.

> ok-so-where's-the-cons-operator-ly y'rs

def car(x):
    return x[0]

def cdr(x):
    return x[1]

def cons(x, y):
    return x, y

has the same semantics (cdr(cons(x,y)) is y; etc), and similar pragmatics
(O(1) cons, car cdr; O(N) search; etc).  Say None instead of NIL.  Then
throw it all out and use a language where it's natural instead <wink>.
Curiously, the profiling module actually uses this way of building a stack,
because at the time Jim Roskind found it was quicker than pushing and
popping a list.

most-code-is-left-over-from-decade-old-statistics<wink>-ly y'rs  - tim




From max at platonix.com  Sun Jan  7 09:38:42 2001
From: max at platonix.com (Max F. Rotem)
Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2001 17:38:42 +0300
Subject: Processes
Message-ID: <3a587fb6$1@news.barak.net.il>

Hello All !
I wrote chat in Python .
So some frame that ivokes chat content must do Refresh (something like META
.... 30 REFRESH)
For example , content frame every 30 sec. invoke SHOW.PY , that read the
CHAT content file , and
than print (sys.stdout.write(ChatContent) ) it in main frame.
It is very ugly , so I tried , to do something else ,
like
    while 1:
        status,ChatContent=CheckFileIfChanged() #Some function that check
chat content file,Chat Content - added content
        if status=='change':
                print ChatContent

Now I solved the problem with Refresh , but now I have another one .
For evry user it is run now 2 processes 1 - SHOW.PY and second httpd (Apache
Pipe).
Even if user exit the chat , or push the stop button , this processes still
run on server side , for
each users click on Refresh button , it is starts 2 more additional
processes .......
at the end I come to situations , that I got the apache error like "Too much
opened pipes" (or something like this)
My question is how can I controll processes (all this processes run with
user NOBODY permissions) ,
How can I optimize it to DO NOT do REFRESH of CONTENT , and JUST add every
time add of new content ??
(Maybe exist some use for flush() function)
Anybody ?:))

Thanks ,
Best Regards ,
Max  F. Rotem





From Armin_member at newsguy.com  Mon Jan  1 05:05:01 2001
From: Armin_member at newsguy.com (Armin Steinhoff)
Date: 1 Jan 2001 02:05:01 -0800
Subject: SMB Module
References: <92n1lh02evv@drn.newsguy.com> <slrn94vpc7.544.mballen@angus.foo.net>
Message-ID: <92pkod011eh@drn.newsguy.com>

In article <slrn94vpc7.544.mballen at angus.foo.net>, mballen at erols.com says...
>
>Armin Steinhoff wrote:
>>In article <slrn94trot.b73.mballen at angus.foo.net>, mballen at erols.com says...
>>>
>>>I frequent the Samba mailing list. A couple of days ago Richard Sharp
>>>put together an smbclient.so library of client functions for SMB. SMB
>>>is Microsoft's native file and print sharing protocol. Someone wrote a
>>>Perl module using it. I just thought one of you guys might want to do the
>>>same for Python. Seems only natrual since there's a nice little library
>>>all packaged up with open(), read(), write(), ...etc all setup easy like.
>>
>>Makes no sense, because a SMB client mapps normaly a M$ volume to a directory
>>tree (UNIX) or a virtual drive (M$) ... I don't see in that case any tasks for
>>Python.
>
>I'm not really sure what your talking about Armin.

See above ... SMB clients :)

> SMB Servers are file
>servers like ftp, http, nfs, ...etc. It just happends to be by far the
>most popular.
>
>And if you have people are dedicated to MS, as many are, then having this
>tool might be crucial to allowing you to work in a UNIX environment if
>that's what you prefer. I do.

Ditto ... we use SMB clients to map SMB volumes (M$, UNIX) and we run SMB
servers (M$, UNIX) to offer SMB volumes.

BTW .. the 'SAMBA' SMB server works with WinXY and UNIX and it is FREE!

See http://www.samba.org

Armin



>
>Mike
>
>-- 
>signature pending



From ray_drew at yahoo.co.uk  Wed Jan 24 12:37:08 2001
From: ray_drew at yahoo.co.uk (Ray Drew)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 17:37:08 GMT
Subject: PSU uses emacs?
References: <948e4b$hm0$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <948fvj$oq1$1@panix6.panix.com> <3A67CDC3.7EACB07D@Lugoj.Com> <9490t009on@news2.newsguy.com> <3a685ef2.3403798@reading.news.pipex.net> <949rii0a76@news1.newsguy.com> <3a6eb2fa.2347467@reading.news.pipex.net> <94mtc702d2h@news2.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <3a6f1114.10352226@reading.news.pipex.net>

On Wed, 24 Jan 2001 16:46:16 +0100, "Alex Martelli"
<aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote:

Thanks to Alex and Roland for your tips; much appreciated.

Is there a good book on vi?

Does anyone have an opinion on O'reilly's 'Learning the vi Editor'?

Ray Drew
CIA UK



From JoeSmith at bogusaddress.com  Wed Jan 17 01:37:01 2001
From: JoeSmith at bogusaddress.com (Joe Smith)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 06:37:01 GMT
Subject: Python equivalent of 'use strict'
References: <3A6483CD.CB2424E0@raqia.com> <94232r$297$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <dT796.4770$tq1.254271@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <3A653E47.FCC2294F@bogusaddress.com>

I would like to have a compiler (or interpreter) option or something to force one to
declare variables.  Something similar to visual basick's "option explicit".  This
could prevent assignment to a mistyped variable.

Oldayz wrote:

> Would it perhaps be useful to have to indicate specifically that you're
> declaring a new variable with a keyword?
>
> import strict
>
> new a
> new b = 5
> a = b + 6
>
> c = 3 # raises an error
>
> I'm not sure I'd like it - I only used perl in a few tiny scripts and
> never did use strict, so I don't know how it'd feel.
>
> --
>
>         Andrei



From katz at Glue.umd.edu  Sun Jan 14 20:19:34 2001
From: katz at Glue.umd.edu (Roy Katz)
Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 20:19:34 -0500
Subject: Python 3000.  Here we go again.
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0101142011080.14128-100000@y.glue.umd.edu>

Hello,

Let's open healing wounds. 
I've looked around on python.sourceforge.net and python.org but I still
can't find any official reference to Python 3000.  I looked through the
PEPs, the SIGs, google, etc.. 

- has anyone been thinking about a new design for Python?
- is there any moderated forum specifically for Py3k brainstorming? 

justification for my question in case I'm flamed again:   I want use
static typing.  I want real class methods.  I want to be crazy and derive
from an int. My programs could benefit from full lexical scoping. I *hope*
any such rewrite retains case sensitivity (yes there are SIGs devoted to
typing and scoping, but they don't necessarily relate to Py3k). 

Thanks, 

Roey (now the more stylish /R). 




From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Thu Jan 11 11:40:47 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 17:40:47 +0100
Subject: Web devel with python. Whats the best route?
References: <93cqvi0191h@news1.newsguy.com> <mailman.978910629.6814.python-list@python.org> <mailman.978975978.19612.python-list@python.org> <spenrose-E755EB.22423209012001@news.dnai.com> <93hfp1013sm@news2.newsguy.com> <spenrose-149DD9.22095710012001@news.dnai.com> <93juec0fk6@news1.newsguy.com> <93kije$cgg$1@newshost.accu.uu.nl>
Message-ID: <93knpa01aen@news1.newsguy.com>

"Martijn Faassen" <m.faassen at vet.uu.nl> wrote in message
news:93kije$cgg$1 at newshost.accu.uu.nl...
    [snip]
> Creations and Hiperlogica are experimenting with another approach to
> this, called HiperDOM. Its approach is interesting:
>
> http://www.zope.org/Wikis/DevSite/Projects/HiperDom/PrototypeDocumentation
>
> (though the Zope site seems to be in a major kind of flake-out mode now,
>  so this URL may or not work for you :)
>
> The idea is that instead of custom tags, things happen in XHTML
attributes,
> and each template can be a full web page by itself too, editable by
> WYSIWIG tools, as long as those tools leave the extra attributes
> intact.

I'll wait to check until the zope site stabilizes then (it's surely
a strange image that an unstable site is doing, showing off a web
app platform, darn...), but the basic concept seems sound & viable.


A;ex





From timr at probo.com  Thu Jan 18 00:12:48 2001
From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 21:12:48 -0800
Subject: python compiled to native in less than a year?
References: <kcF86.6006$J%.594457@news.flash.net> <Pine.GSO.4.21.0101151106200.7702-100000@z.glue.umd.edu> <8pF86.6015$J%.595435@news.flash.net>
Message-ID: <0luc6toovfccbqspkvc0dkqkuc5dck7u51@4ax.com>

"scotth" <slhath at flash.net> wrote:
>
>Since Python will be one of the .NET languages, it will get compiled like
>all the other .NET languages.  Whatever the problems, ActiveState/MS
>have/are going to over come it if my info is correct.

Where did you get your information?  Do you have a URL?  The other repliers
are delighting in nitpicking and Microsoft bashing, but no one seems to
have questioned the basic premise.

If I understand the .NET concept correctly, any COMPILED language will be
compiled to IL.  However, I don't think there is anything to prevent a
language from being interpreted.  That is, Python might survive in the .NET
framework as source text.
--
- Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
  Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.


From aahz at panix.com  Tue Jan  2 12:46:35 2001
From: aahz at panix.com (Aahz Maruch)
Date: 2 Jan 2001 09:46:35 -0800
Subject: Queuing mechanism that is poll/select'able ?
References: <txk4rzo9o4j.fsf@vortex.ukshells.co.uk> <92l4n9$r57$1@panix3.panix.com> <txk3df47a6i.fsf@vortex.ukshells.co.uk>
Message-ID: <92t45r$kno$1@panix6.panix.com>

In article <txk3df47a6i.fsf at vortex.ukshells.co.uk>,
Chris Ebenezer  <chriseb at pobox.com> wrote:
>aahz at panix.com (Aahz Maruch) writes:
>> 
>> What might well be easier than what you're suggesting is to spawn off
>> threads to handle the external events (sockets); those threads then
>> interact with the standard Queue object(s).
>
>This works if you are only ever going to read from the sockets,  It is
>slightly more complicated than that when you have to write to those
>sockets as well (because writing can block and isn't guarenteed in
>either the non-blocking or blocking scenario - the same as all FD
>based interfaces).   

I don't see what the problem is.  The Queue objects are not affected by
the blocked write, so other threads can still post requests to the
socket thread(s), and they can still retrieve the results of any
previously completed reads or writes.

>If Queue objects could be select'ed on then tehy
>could be used to pass pending output from other threads.   You can't
>do something like (psuedo code):
>
>    if select.select(readfds, writefds, ..... ):
>        ## error handling code
>
>    if able_to_write:
>        nextWrite = Queue.get(noblocking);
>
>Because in the most common case you end up busy waiting in your main
>I/O loop. 

You can't do that directly.  My point is that it's fairly easy to
convert the external activity to Queue-based events.
-- 
                      --- Aahz (Copyright 2000 by aahz at pobox.com)

Androgynous poly kinky vanilla queer het    <*>     http://www.rahul.net/aahz/
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6

Happy second year of the new millennium!


From cpr at emsoftware.com  Sun Jan 14 12:37:56 2001
From: cpr at emsoftware.com (Chris Ryland)
Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 17:37:56 GMT
Subject: No meta-type in Python?
References: <93q4og$ppg$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <93so5k$lor$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

In article <93q4og$ppg$1 at nnrp1.deja.com>,
  Chris Ryland <cpr at emsoftware.com> wrote:
> Just out of curiousity, why is there no <type 'type'> in Python?
>
> I.e., I'd expect type(Ellipsis) to be <type 'type'> rather than
> <type 'ellipsis'>.
>
> I realize this is opening a can of worms about meta-types (cf.
> Smalltalk's (and other languages) theoretical completeness in this
> area), but simply looking for enlightenment from the experts.

Thanks to everyone who kindly pointed out my think-o (Ellipsis is an
object, not a type). I stand corrected.

--
Chris Ryland * Em Software, Inc. * www.emsoftware.com


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From katz at Glue.umd.edu  Wed Jan 17 22:31:30 2001
From: katz at Glue.umd.edu (Roy Katz)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 22:31:30 -0500
Subject: Python 3000.  Here we go again.
In-Reply-To: <945gg8$dtv$1@panix6.panix.com>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0101142011080.14128-100000@y.glue.umd.edu> <945gg8$dtv$1@panix6.panix.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0101172231250.14472-100000@y.glue.umd.edu>

Aye, thanks :)


Roey

On 17 Jan 2001, Aahz Maruch wrote:

> In article <Pine.GSO.4.21.0101142011080.14128-100000 at y.glue.umd.edu>,
> Roy Katz  <katz at Glue.umd.edu> wrote:
> >
> >- has anyone been thinking about a new design for Python?
> >- is there any moderated forum specifically for Py3k brainstorming? 
> 
> I think this is about as close as you'll get:
> 
> http://www.python9.org/p9-developers1.html
> -- 
>                       --- Aahz (Copyright 2001 by aahz at pobox.com)
> 
> Androgynous poly kinky vanilla queer het    <*>     http://www.rahul.net/aahz/
> Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6
> 
> A house is a machine to keep your cat dry.  --Aahz
> 



From tjs at mail.csse.monash.edu.au  Mon Jan 29 06:32:26 2001
From: tjs at mail.csse.monash.edu.au (Toby J Sargeant)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 22:32:26 +1100
Subject: PSU uses emacs?
In-Reply-To: <3a7542d7.2738309@reading.news.pipex.net>; from ray_drew@yahoo.co.uk on Mon, Jan 29, 2001 at 10:24:30AM +0000
References: <948e4b$hm0$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <948fvj$oq1$1@panix6.panix.com> <3A67CDC3.7EACB07D@Lugoj.Com> <9490t009on@news2.newsguy.com> <3a685ef2.3403798@reading.news.pipex.net> <949rii0a76@news1.newsguy.com> <3a6eb2fa.2347467@reading.news.pipex.net> <mailman.980374351.22360.python-list@python.org> <3a7542d7.2738309@reading.news.pipex.net>
Message-ID: <20010129223226.A9703@fangorn.csse.monash.edu.au>

On Mon, Jan 29, 2001 at 10:24:30AM +0000, Ray Drew wrote:
> The behaviour I'd like is for the cursor to autoindent for lines 2 and
> 3 and for the backspace key to move me back a tab in line 4. Can I get
> gvim to work like this?

The keys you want are ^T and ^D. ^T adds a shiftwidth worth of indent, and
^D removes one.

Toby.



From djc at object-craft.com.au  Fri Jan 26 23:43:39 2001
From: djc at object-craft.com.au (Dave Cole)
Date: 27 Jan 2001 15:43:39 +1100
Subject: csv-0.2 released
Message-ID: <m3vgr1mwp0.fsf@vole.object-craft.com.au>

With all of this CSV parsing discussion, I received a couple of
requests for enhancements to my fast CSV module.  The enhancements
are:

- Parser object now has the field_sep attribute.  This is the
  character which is used to delimit fields in records.

  I found (and reported) a bug in the Python PyMember_Set() function
  while adding this feature.

- Parser object now has the join() method which combines the elements
  in a sequence and returns a CSV record in a string.

The new module can be downloaded from:

        http://www.object-craft.com.au/projects/csv/

As pointed out on the page, the module runs only slightly slower than
string.split().

- Dave

-- 
http://www.object-craft.com.au


From sandj.williams at gte.net  Thu Jan  4 10:02:43 2001
From: sandj.williams at gte.net (Steve Williams)
Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 15:02:43 GMT
Subject: A single, general looping construct? (was: why no "do : until"?)
References: <92jj3j$ff7$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <92m9pm$d19$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <B3z36.122$9s1.18804@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com> <3A4EC5B1.8912E571@engcorp.com> <x8G36.156$9s1.31209@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com> <92qc21$538$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <0O7zTzsxerl5-pn2-SISYKtwXTOmR@bill> <931lji02ik1@news2.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <3A5491D4.6852AD41@gte.net>

Alex Martelli wrote:

> [snip]

> The need for structure is not under discussion: rather, the basic
> guideline on how to pick the structures.  Some languages bask in
> 'being very expressive' by making you choose among umpteen ways
> to express the same thing, a la Cobol's
>     ADD CREAM TO ESPRESSO GIVING CAPPUCCINO
> vs
>     LET CAPPUCCINO = CREAM + ESPRESSO
>
> I'm quite happy for people who like such "expressive richness"
> to pursue it in the many languages that follow this "the more the
> merrier" philosophy -- Cobol and Perl being just two reasonably
> consistent examples of such redundance.

[snip]

I think you need to brush up on your COBOL syntax.

Anyway, nobody ever said COBOL was expressive.  People said COBOL was
'verbose'.

But its design goals were 1)  readable code and 2) platform
independence--features we can all appreciate and strive for in any language,
even Python.

The obscurantists among us (say, for example, those who would write CSTMRNO
instead of CUSTOMER-NUMBER or those who would add magic constructs to
programming languages) didn't like the verbosity, and the computer
manufacturers didn't like the platform independence.

That said, I do like verbs in a language--I actually use them in my everyday
speech.




From MarkH at ActiveState.com  Mon Jan 22 12:29:11 2001
From: MarkH at ActiveState.com (Mark Hammond)
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 17:29:11 GMT
Subject: How to define event handler in win32com?
References: <94hfsd$hkd$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <94hqkq$s4i$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

In article <94hfsd$hkd$1 at nnrp1.deja.com>,
  shenwang at my-deja.com wrote:
> After using makepy, I can easily access properties and methods
> of a com object, but I do not how to bind my python function
> to the events defined in that object. Any help?

Check out win32com\test\testMSOfficeEvents.py for a working sample, or
the docstrings for win32com.client.DispatchWithEvents for an example
using IE.

Mark.


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From sholden at holdenweb.com  Tue Jan 16 18:53:22 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 18:53:22 -0500
Subject: python compiled to native in less than a year?
References: <mailman.979575676.22737.python-list@python.org> <GqH86.6041$J%.605518@news.flash.net> <G9K86.60439$eB2.5067059@news.infostrada.it> <n7vv39.r1f.ln@demonseed.net> <941koq077o@news1.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <Td596.1181$DI.17855@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>

"Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:941koq077o at news1.newsguy.com...
> "jason petrone" <jp at NOSPAMdemonseed.net> wrote in message
> news:n7vv39.r1f.ln at demonseed.net...
> > Giuseppe Bilotta <oblomov at freemail.it> wrote:
> >

[ attempts to gain insight into MS' future behavior]

> What's ASF?  Also, _are_ patents incompatible with standards?  I thought,
> for example, the MPEG group did standardize on a patent-covered format for
> the now-very-popular MP3 files, and indeed some German public-sector body
> is now trying to cash in on the patent they hold.  So what might stop MS
> from getting a patent _after_ some standards group (ECMA maybe?) blesses
> their IL.  Not trying to fuel paranoia -- I'd *love* it if a standard did
> emerge for a bytecode such as IL -- just trying to understand...
>
I suspect that disclosure through the standardization process would cause
patent applications to fail onthe grounds of "prior art". Apparently Arthur
C. Clark described the geosynchronous satellite in concept in the British
magazine "Wireless World", and this was enough to ensure that he was refused
a patent on it later.

the-ibm-journal-of-disclosure-is-to-stop-*other*-people-patenting-ibm's-idea
s-ly y'rs  - steve



From dan.rolander at marriott.com  Sat Jan 20 16:56:53 2001
From: dan.rolander at marriott.com (Dan Rolander)
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 16:56:53 -0500
Subject: Different deployment considerations (was: Python & GUI?)
References: <3A674896.C7E52247@crepido.com> <3A698869.198D6263@crepido.com> <301DBDE62C14BD35.683C43A181247CB3.8398E5428BE1B406@lp.airnews.net> <94cm0r01b6j@news2.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <033901c0832e$d883e270$11260340@yin>

Installer works fine with wxPython. It's just that Installer has built-in
support for including the tk files.

Dan

----- Original Message -----
From: "Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com>
Newsgroups: comp.lang.python
To: <python-list at python.org>
Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2001 10:27 AM
Subject: Re: Different deployment considerations (was: Python & GUI?)


"Cameron Laird" <claird at starbase.neosoft.com> wrote in message
news:301DBDE62C14BD35.683C43A181247CB3.8398E5428BE1B406 at lp.airnews.net...
    [snip]
> side?  Gordon's Installer makes Win* Tkinter apps into
> single files ...  I know of *no* other of the many Python
> GUI bindings which enjoys this benefit.
>
> Does anyone have evidence to the contrary?

I haven't checked, but, why wouldn't Installer (or other
such solutions) work equivalently for, say, wxPython?


Alex



--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list





From cjw at sympatico.ca  Sun Jan  7 07:56:36 2001
From: cjw at sympatico.ca (Colin J. Williams)
Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2001 12:56:36 GMT
Subject: Misleading error message?
Message-ID: <3A57CE77.6B1665A@sympatico.ca>

An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20010107/71c4d5ce/attachment.html>

From donod at home.com  Tue Jan  2 03:18:08 2001
From: donod at home.com (Don O'Donnell)
Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2001 08:18:08 GMT
Subject: Accessing variables created after import in imported files
References: <3A4FFBCB.76A7@loop.com>
Message-ID: <3A516F6D.AD80B0AD@home.com>

Hi Jesse,

I think you would have a better design if you passed the Game instance
as a parameter to the ThingThatUsesGame constructor.  It seems to make
sense (to me anyway) that you would want to tell the ThingThatUsesGame
which game he's using. Of course, I'm not familiar with your application
so there may be other issues that require you to use a global, but, in 
general, globals should be avoided when ever possible.

class ThingThatUsesGame:
    def __init__(self, game):
        self.game = game
        print self.game.foo

gameX = Game()
gameUserX = ThingThatUsesGame(gameX)

# or, if you don't need to refer to the game instance anywhere else:

gameUserX = ThingThatUsesGame(Game())

This design will also allow you to have multiple users playing 
different games.

- Don

Jesse W wrote:
> 
> Sorry about the somewhat unclear subject line.  I am not totally sure
> of the general form of my problem, so it is hard to write it as a
> subject line.  My problem involves a program I am writting to allow
> people to play a really fun card game I know, Hot Death Uno.  Insted of
> posting the actual code(It's really long, and even snipits would be
> pretty complex) I have enclosed code which demostrates the problem, but
> is not the actual code I am working with.  If someone want's to see it,
> I would be glad to e-mail it to them.
>         The code is in two files:
> #file 1
> import file2
> 
> class Game:
>     def __init__(self):
>         global TheGame
>         TheGame=self
>         #this lets other classes access the current
>         #instence of the game without knowing the name it was
>         #created as.
>         self.foo='Some random variable'
> x=Game()
> foo=file2.ThingThatUsesGameClass()
> 
> #file 2
> import file1
> 
> class ThingThatUsesGameClass:
>     def __init__(self):
>         print TheGame.foo #this should use the instance of the Game     #class
> created in the other file.
> 
>                 Thank you very much for your time,
>                                         Jesse Weinstein


From gradha at iname.com  Sat Jan 13 13:24:32 2001
From: gradha at iname.com (gradha at iname.com)
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 19:24:32 +0100
Subject: Python converts my 8-bit strings
Message-ID: <0h6q39.frl.ln@127.0.0.1>

Hi.

When I for example fed string.split with an 8 bit string, all the 8 bit
characters get converted into what looks like utf-8 codes. How do I
convert later those escape sequences to single characters, or avoid split
and other functions doing the conversion?

-- 

 Grzegorz Adam Hankiewicz   gradha at iname.com - http://gradha.infierno.org
 Other web pages:  http://glub.ehu.es/  -  http://welcome.to/gogosoftware/


From cfelling at iae.nl  Wed Jan 24 14:05:36 2001
From: cfelling at iae.nl (Carel Fellinger)
Date: 24 Jan 2001 20:05:36 +0100
Subject: Markov.py
References: <94eavq$5cl$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <94eulk$dduhj$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de> <3A6B7716.68A62115@home.com> <94h5he$9kl$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <94ides$6t2$1@animus.fel.iae.nl> <94jrt701eg4@news1.newsguy.com> <94l59e$4kc$1@animus.fel.iae.nl> <94mbet01ruh@news2.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <94n920$e66$1@animus.fel.iae.nl>

Alex Martelli <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote:
> "Carel Fellinger" <cfelling at iae.nl> wrote in message
> news:94l59e$4kc$1 at animus.fel.iae.nl...
>     [snip]
>> Funny, in those days I was more into Montague Grammers and Natural
>> Language Machine Translation (mainly on the implementation side of a
>> very formal approach under the guidance of Jan Landsbergen).  We used
>> to look with dedain to people using stochastic models in the field:)

> Yep, I remember the debates!-)  The little fact that our
> approach *WORKED* (allowing a 20,000-word vocabulary real
> time recognizer to be first built in 1984), of course,

Impressive! (I take it it did single words only, and I guess it needed
training to get a good profil of the speaker, but still impressive)

> only made the barbs & disdains from the Theoreticians
> more bitter and envenomed:-).  [That's also when I started

Yep, proven wrong what else was there left for them to do:)

But if I remember correctly, the use of frequency analysis to
recognize spoken words was not what was criticised at all. We (the
members of the Rosetta team) felt a bit awkward by the claim that
stochastic models were better suited to attach meaning to (written)
natural language and even to weed ambigueties.  Grammars, on the other
hand, are soo crisp and clear, hence easy to understand:) Probably had
to do with some defect in our minds; I for one never grogged Perl, yet
with Python it was love at first sight.



-- 
groetjes, carel


From erno-news at erno.iki.fi  Wed Jan 31 04:59:47 2001
From: erno-news at erno.iki.fi (Erno Kuusela)
Date: 31 Jan 2001 11:59:47 +0200
Subject: How do you lock your web app data?
References: <956uqd$6st$1@newsreaderg1.core.theplanet.net>
Message-ID: <kur91k3uuk.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>

In article <956uqd$6st$1 at newsreaderg1.core.theplanet.net>, "Franz
GEIGER" <fgeiger at datec.at> writes:

| Of course I could take a database as backend but I wonder if there are other
| possibilities to achieve that "serialization"? How do you do it? Do you
| always use a database? Is it worth the effort doing it without a database?

i use dbm and shelve a lot, and fcntl.flock(). it's much less painful
than a rdbms if your needs are simple. otoh, it can be plenty
painful if you discover you'd actually needed a "real" dbms after all...

an "issue tracker" would probably fall in the "needs a real dmbs"
category. you could use zodb or a sql rdbms.

  -- erno


From thomas at xs4all.net  Tue Jan  9 07:43:15 2001
From: thomas at xs4all.net (Thomas Wouters)
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 13:43:15 +0100
Subject: 2001 Enchancement Wishlist
In-Reply-To: <937pl001peq@news1.newsguy.com>; from aleaxit@yahoo.com on Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 07:51:35PM +0100
References: <20001231175940.A5435@xs4all.nl> <008301c07501$c036ae40$43931497@martelli> <20010104165116.F2467@xs4all.nl> <008601c07675$0adf2020$102b2bc1@cadlab.it> <20010104203232.P402@xs4all.nl> <006801c0769b$ac0cc3a0$9d8a1a97@martelli> <20010105110459.Q402@xs4all.nl> <mailman.978706087.24274.python-list@python.org> <937l3u$gbi$1@slb2.atl.mindspring.net> <937pl001peq@news1.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <20010109134315.R2467@xs4all.nl>

On Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 07:51:35PM +0100, Alex Martelli wrote:
> "Andrew Dalke" <dalke at acm.org> wrote in message
> news:937l3u$gbi$1 at slb2.atl.mindspring.net...
>     [snip]
> >   proxy = Proxy(...)
> >   sys.modules[module_name] = proxy
> >
> > In other words, what you import doesn't need to be a module.
> > It can be a class instance instead - or any other data type.
> 
> Now THAT is interesting!  I would never have guessed that the
> items in sys.modules need not be module objects.  Is this
> documented, something I can rely on forevermore and just
> happened not to notice in my study, or just an accident of the
> current implementation which might go away anytime?

Without pretending to channel Guido or someone similar important in that
area of Python, I think I can safely say it's to be considered an
implementation detail, and that the behaviour is undefined. It could even
be considered a bug, since 'import' claims to import a module into the
local namespace, and a class instance isn't a module :)

-- 
Thomas Wouters <thomas at xs4all.net>

Hi! I'm a .signature virus! copy me into your .signature file to help me spread!



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sat Jan  6 16:25:37 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2001 22:25:37 +0100
Subject: A single, general looping construct? (was: why no "do : until"?)
References: <92jj3j$ff7$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <92m9pm$d19$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <B3z36.122$9s1.18804@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com> <3A4EC5B1.8912E571@engcorp.com> <x8G36.156$9s1.31209@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com> <92qc21$538$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <0O7zTzsxerl5-pn2-SISYKtwXTOmR@bill> <931lji02ik1@news2.newsguy.com> <0O7zTzsxerl5-pn2-DVVVoFhFP1jH@bill> <934sg602sfh@news2.newsguy.com> <0O7zTzsxerl5-pn2-d47FDdZYq25y@bill>
Message-ID: <9382lg026mh@news1.newsguy.com>

"William Sonna" <wlsonna at attglobal.net> wrote in message
news:0O7zTzsxerl5-pn2-
d47FDdZYq25y at bill...
    [snip]
> > > So what's the deal with Python?
> >
> > It's a general-purpose programming language, with no need for
> > any special compatibility with existing ones.
>
> I was going to drop this, Alex, but I simply CAN'T let a statement
> like that go by unchallenged, so (with apologies).........
>
> .......Since you haven't backed this seemingly sweeping statement up
> with any examples,  would you mind explaining what you mean by
> "special" compatibility?

Some programming languages are designed with very specific (aka
'special') compatibility with other existing ones.  For example, C++ was
designed under the strong constraint of compatibility with C -- ability
to compile most C programs (e.g., all K&R 2nd edition C programs must
also be compiled by C++ compilers and give the same results); Java chose
much-weaker C-compatibility (basically, some syntax similarity).

Occasionally, a language is designed with NO interest at all in being
even "generally" (as opposed to "specially") compatible with, or similar
to, any other existing programming language.  APL, Snobol, Prolog...
their semantics (and syntax) were utterly revolutionary in the context
of other programming languages existing at the time of their design.

Python does have some 'generic' (aka 'general') compatibility with, or,
rather, similarity to, existing languages -- many of its keywords, for
example, are the same as the ones other languages use for similar
functionality ('while', 'for', 'if', 'else', 'try', 'except', 'class', ...),
and
I'm sure you've also noticed other such similarities.  On the other hand,
it has no design goal of specifically (specially) 'staying close to' any
single given existing language.  So, for example, if the format operator's
sublanguage ("%s" for 'here, a string', "%20s" for, 'here, a string that
takes at least 20 spaces', etc etc) is SO close to the sublanguage used
in the format of C's printf (&c), it must be a deliberate choice by the
language designer, not stemming from special constraints to keep
compatibility or similarity with existing languages' usage.


> 1.  Wasn't the adoption Perl-style regex's essentially a tip of the
> hat to a widely used, widely understood (and refreshingly un-lippy)
> syntax?

I see Tim has answered this question (which is good, because I
have no idea of what 'un-lippy' is supposed to mean).


> 2.  If convenience at the expense of redundancy trully has no place in
> Python,  how do explain the likes of map, reduce and list
> comprehensions?  Are THEY not "special" instances of "while" with
> abbreviated syntax?

Well, for that matter, 'while' itself is a special instance of recursion;
whatever you can express as a loop, you can express recursing.

Python has a lot of solid Dutch pragmatism behind it: it's never
minimalist for the sake of minimalism -- it turns out to be _pretty
close_ to minimalist because utter simplicity is so often the best
pragmatical choice, so-called 'convenience' be darned (in the world
of programming, 'convenience' is generally the buzzword for adding
3,420 'shortcut' features each of which will actually get used about
as often as hell freezes over, ignoring the utter INconvenience of
the resulting bloated, complex, redundant program-systems).

For example: if you had only recursion, not 'while', most likely at
least 9 in 10 of your uses of recursion would 'actually' be 'loops'.
Such preponderance justifies giving the loop "special case" its own
syntax & semantics, from a pragmatic viewpoint.  Similarly, though
less dramatically, the frequence of 'for' wrt 'while' justifies having
two separate statements on the same kind of pragmatical grounds.

The small functional-programming 'side' of Python does elicit
controversy among some Pythonistas, as the actual and desirable
frequency of use of map (reduce, filter) and the legibility thus
gained wrt simple explicit loops are anything but clear.  In fact,
I've heard occasional regrets about them.  Still, as they are
*functions*, NOT *statements*, the situation is obviously totally
different.  Python's *libraries* are anything but 'minimal': I'd call
them pretty rich; and I have absolutely no trouble with this, since
ignoring functions, and whole modules, you don't care about, is
far easier & practical than doing so for core-language features.

List-comprehensions seem to be somewhat controversial, too,
though I, personally, like them a lot.  They're a slightly different
syntax in which you can use existing keywords ('for' and 'if') to
gain more compactness in some cases -- augmented assignment
can be seen similarly (although in that case the ability to do an
operation in-place can play an important role, so it's not _just_
syntax sugar -- while list comprehensions are).  Anyway, adding
the ability to use some existing keywords, with equal semantics,
in a somewhat syntactically different (more compact) way, is
hardly a major addition to the language.


> I submit that the ONLY practical purpose 1) or 2) serve is to produce
> cleaner (ie, less wordy) code.

It's arguable (and argued about) that more-compact code is
'cleaner' (personally, I think it can often be -- but any given
case can be a delicate question of taste and style).

> They ARE, therefore, Miesian (Mies Van Der Rohe), or  minimalist, or
> Pythonic, if you prefer; DESPITE being redundant.

Non sequitur (it does not follow): the "therefore" is unwarranted.
"Being minimalist" does not come from "letting something be expressed
more compactly" -- else Perl would be minimalism's triumph.  It's not.
And few would argue that the utter compactness it enables lets the
code that's so written be "cleaner"!


Alex





From SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk  Wed Jan 17 09:58:11 2001
From: SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk (Simon Brunning)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 14:58:11 -0000
Subject: Jython on the AS/400
Message-ID: <31575A892FF6D1118F5800600846864D5B171A@intrepid>

All of a sudden, I find that there are quite a number of people interested
in running Jython on the AS/400. I have set up a mailing list at
<http://www.egroups.com/group/JythonAS400> to do this. All welcome.

Cheers,
Simon Brunning
TriSystems Ltd.
sbrunning at trisystems.co.uk





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From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Thu Jan  4 09:01:35 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 15:01:35 +0100
Subject: Reading from a pipe (open mode w)
References: <931d5j$m0e$1@proxy.fe.internet.bosch.de>
Message-ID: <931vpn02sth@news2.newsguy.com>

"Jens Vogelgesang" <jens.vogelgesang at de.bosch.com> wrote in message
news:931d5j$m0e$1 at proxy.fe.internet.bosch.de...
> I need a wrapper to capsulate an interactive tool which is waiting for
> keyboard input.
> I can generate the input by writing into the pipe.
> To be able to retrieve the tool output, I tried to read from the pipe.
> My Problem is, that I don't know, how to flush the pipe, to force the pipe
> not to be buffered??
>
> Any hints ??

In general, if you have no control over 'the interactive tool',
you need "Expect" functionality -- see http://expectpy.sourceforge.net/
(but I don't think it works under Windows; there _is_ a version of
Expect 5.21 for Windows, http://bmrc.berkeley.edu/people/chaffee/tcltk.html,
but I think ExpectPy needs releases 5.31 or 5.32, which AFAIK have not
been ported to Win32).


Alex





From fredrik at effbot.org  Thu Jan 18 01:41:28 2001
From: fredrik at effbot.org (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 06:41:28 GMT
Subject: Strange variable scope... is this right?
References: <gcqp39.jkk.ln@127.0.0.1> <9456dr$a7h$1@panix2.panix.com> <945ept$cc0lf$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <sew96.6998$Qb7.1035011@newsb.telia.net>

Emile van Sebille wrote:
> Assuming that's correct then, is this piece of code with
> annotations the way that it's working?
>
> f = ["row", "cow", "arrow"]
> # create three element list object and bind to 'f'
> for f in f:
>     # save reference to 'f' to iterate over,
>     # re-binding 'f' to each in turn
>     for f in range (len (f)):
>         # save reference to newly created range object
>         # of len (f)
>         # re-binding 'f' to each in turn
>
> It feels like this is less an issue with namespaces and more
> an issue of how the for loop works.
>
> Am-I-getting-closer-ly y'rs,

cannot get much closer.

see http://www.python.org/doc/current/ref/for.html
for a formal description.

Cheers /F




From trotts at mit.edu  Mon Jan 29 14:56:14 2001
From: trotts at mit.edu (Issac Trotts)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 11:56:14 -0800
Subject: need Numeric module
In-Reply-To: <20010129134916.11960.qmail@web216.mail.yahoo.com>; from hadidab@yahoo.fr on Mon, Jan 29, 2001 at 02:49:16PM +0100
References: <20010129134916.11960.qmail@web216.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20010129115614.A3063@llnl.gov>

Why not try a Google search for Numeric Python.

Issac

ABDENOUR HADID (hadidab at yahoo.fr) wrote:

> hello..
> 
> I want to excute a scrit wich import a Numeric module,
> where can I find this module?
> 
> thanks
> 
> 
> 
> ___________________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!? -- Pour dialoguer en direct avec vos amis, 
> Yahoo! Messenger : http://fr.messenger.yahoo.com
> 
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list



From richard_chamberlainREMOVE at ntlworld.com  Mon Jan 15 14:26:49 2001
From: richard_chamberlainREMOVE at ntlworld.com (Richard Chamberlain)
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 19:26:49 -0000
Subject: Problem with a tuple - newbie ignorance
References: <3A633531.9010303@yale.edu>
Message-ID: <G4I86.4367$ye3.114939@news2-win.server.ntlworld.com>

Hi Steven,

I'm afraid that is pretty unclear to me - you'd be better posting a small
snippet of code. I can't tell from you explanation how you think your tuple
should be cleared.

A couple of things to be aware of:

Your tuple is in fact a list - anything in [1,2,3,4] is a list a tuple is
(1,2,3,4).

>From your description it sounds to me like you'd be better with a
dictionary. If your matching field names with values this would be ideal. A
dictionary is a key,value type.

Richard
Steven Citron-Pousty <steven.citron-pousty at yale.edu> wrote in message
news:3A633531.9010303 at yale.edu...
> Greetings all:
> So I am writing this program to parse text files. I am using a tuple to
> store the field names and values (i.e. [['id =', 't =',
> ...]['','',...]]. The program reads through all the files in the
> directory. For each file it writes all the all the matches in teh
> appropriate field.  I am having several problems, but the biggest right
> now is:
> When the program goes to parse the next file it doesn't clear out the
> contents from the last file. Here is how I thought it should work...
> <Header stuff>
> ifields = [[fields names list][list of just '','','']
> <FOR loop with all the file names from the directory>
> open file
> results = ifields
> <fill the results tuple>
> <print the results tuple>
> <go back to the top of the loop>
>
> For some reason I thought that each time results gets sets to ifields it
> should reset the contents of results. I have tried all sorts of other
> workarounds, such as using "del results" just before I go back and
> repeat the loop.
> What am I missing here?
> Thanks for your help...
> Steve
>




From moshez at zadka.site.co.il  Tue Jan 23 08:14:35 2001
From: moshez at zadka.site.co.il (Moshe Zadka)
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 15:14:35 +0200 (IST)
Subject: Count and replacing strings a texfile
In-Reply-To: <94i9ft$apq$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
References: <94i9ft$apq$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <20010123131435.1700EA83E@darjeeling.zadka.site.co.il>

On Mon, 22 Jan 2001 21:42:21 GMT, puckoh at my-deja.com wrote:

> This is a probably basic question.
> I have a textfile about 120k large, and there is several strings in it
> which I must replace.
> The strings are named "%id%" and the number of strings are unknown.
> 
> First, I need to count them all.
> Then I must replace every one of them with a incrementing number.
> Like the first %id% is replaced with 1, the second with 2 etc.

counter = 0
def replace(_):
	global counter
	counter += 1
	return counter

id_re = re.compile('%id%')

s = open(file).read()
s = id_re.replace(s, replace)
open(file 'w').write(s)

You'll want to read the re module reference, in the standard library
reference.

it's-a-perfect-job-for-python-too-ly y'rs, Z.

-- 
Moshe Zadka <sig at zadka.site.co.il>
This is a signature anti-virus. 
Please stop the spread of signature viruses!
Fingerprint: 4BD1 7705 EEC0 260A 7F21  4817 C7FC A636 46D0 1BD6



From sholden at holdenweb.com  Thu Jan 18 16:47:10 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 16:47:10 -0500
Subject: interesting bound-built-in-method technique
References: <9476k6$d55$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <qzJ96.4886$LZ5.22165@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com>

"Chris Ryland" <cpr at emsoftware.com> wrote in message
news:9476k6$d55$1 at nnrp1.deja.com...
> Reading the Quixote sources taught me an interesting little "hack"
> using bound-built-in methods:
>
> >>> m = {'foo': 1, 'bar': 0}.has_key
> >>> m('foo')
> 1
> >>> m('bar')
> 0
>
> Is this a common idiom in Python? Very clever for turning a dictionary
> lookup into a functional form.
>
> Are there other clever but generally obscure idia? (Idioms? ;-)
> --
Sorry old chap, I don't seem to understand your banter. On *my* system
(ActivePython):

>>> m = {'foo': 1, 'bar': 0}.has_key
>>> m('foo')
1
>>> m('bar')
1

Furthermore:

>>> m = {'spam': 'yes', 'eggs': 'no', 'chips': 'maybe'}
>>> m = m.has_key
>>> m("spam")
1
>>> m("eggs")
1
>>> m("parrot")
0

In other words, it *doesn't* cast lookup functionally.

[... light dawns ...]

Aah, what you meant to write was:

>>> m = {'spam': 'yes', 'eggs': 'no', 'chips': 'maybe'}.get
>>> m('spam')
'yes'
>>> m('eggs')
'no'
>>> print m("Blue Norwegian")
None

In either case, this *is* a very interesting idiom, and one I haven't seen
before.
Even more interesting might be:

>>> m = {'spam': 'yes', 'eggs': 'no', 'chips': 'maybe'}
>>> f = m.get
>>> f('spam')
'yes'
>>> m['parrot'] = 'dead'
>>> f('parrot')
'dead'

... in other words, binding to a method of a mutable object means the bound
method reflects mutations in the bound object. Of course, modifying the name
you used in the first place won't alter anything:

>>> m = {'parrot': "alive"}
>>> f('parrot')
'dead'

It just removes the mutable object reference from the namespace, presumably
meaning you can't change it any more. Neat. But will the reference to its
method be enough to stop Python from garbage collecting it [I have to
believe the answer is 'yes'].

regards
 Steve





From gerhard.nospam at bigfoot.de  Wed Jan 10 15:35:18 2001
From: gerhard.nospam at bigfoot.de (Gerhard =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 21:35:18 +0100
Subject: Running cgi-scripts on my home Apache server
References: <j92o5t4gde98rlaca47mdglnsdc7uruo3c@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3A5CC786.4B3C53B8@bigfoot.de>

Yes, it's actually quite simple:

1) Add the following line at the end of {Path of Apache}\conf\httpd.conf

ScriptInterpreterSource Registry

2) give your CGI scripts the extension .py (the Python installer should
have registered .py, .pyc, .pyo to be handled by python.exe), as in this
script:

file test.py in cgi-bin:
########################
#!/usr/bin/env python

print 'Content-type: text/html\n\nhello!'

I always add "#!/usr/bin/env" python as first line to my scripts, even
under Windows, so they can run unchanged under a Unix system (if python
is in the path on the Unix system). This procedure is the portable way,
so you don't have to fiddle with interpreter paths if you want to run
your scripts on another Windows machine or a Unix machine.

Gerhard

Sheila King wrote:
> 
> OK, can anyone help me with this?
> 
> I have Apache installed on a Win98 machine.
> I would like to run cgi scripts.
[snip]

-- 
Sorry for the fake email, please use the real one below to reply.
contact: g e r h a r d @ b i g f o o t . d e
web:     http://highqualdev.com


From akuchlin at mems-exchange.org  Thu Jan 11 08:22:57 2001
From: akuchlin at mems-exchange.org (A.M. Kuchling)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 08:22:57 -0500
Subject: Module for reading tarfiles?
Message-ID: <200101111322.IAA00533@207-172-57-151.s151.tnt2.ann.va.dialup.rcn.com>

Does anyone have any code for reading tar archives in Python?  A long
time ago, Clemens Hintze wrote a tarlib.py that was on python.org, but
it no longer seems to be there.  Anyone have a copy lying around?  If
no code can be found, I'll start working on a module to handle
tarfiles.

--amk




From boud at valdyas.org  Sun Jan 21 08:53:16 2001
From: boud at valdyas.org (Boudewijn Rempt)
Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 14:53:16 +0100
Subject: Blackadder - any opinions?
References: <94c6cu$hl2$1@bob.news.rcn.net>
Message-ID: <3a6ae6c7$0$37175$1a0eedbc@dreader2.news.xs4all.nl>

Satheesh Babu wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> I saw this Python IDE at
> http://www.thekompany.com/products/blackadder/
> 
> Personal edition is $49. Just wondering anybody had any
> experience with that before I think of buying it.
> 
> Screenshots look good though the site is damn too slow!
> 

The site is slow because a lot of Slashdot readers want
to download Aethera - theKompany.com's new KDE e-mail
client.

Anyway, the core components of Blackadder are good - Qt, Qt 
Architect, PyQt, Scintilla. I don't know how well executed the
combination is, since I haven't received my copy yet, but I'm
quite confident.



From dsh8290 at rit.edu  Wed Jan  3 17:39:12 2001
From: dsh8290 at rit.edu (D-Man)
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2001 17:39:12 -0500
Subject: Name Error
In-Reply-To: <3A53A41F.35DD7765@bioeng.ucsd.edu>; from cjensen@bioeng.ucsd.edu on Wed, Jan 03, 2001 at 02:13:51PM -0800
References: <3A5395B5.EBE77FA4@bioeng.ucsd.edu> <Y3N46.3526$Qb7.440895@newsb.telia.net> <3A53A41F.35DD7765@bioeng.ucsd.edu>
Message-ID: <20010103173912.C7037@westsidecnc.rh.rit.edu>

Python 2.0 will have the same problem with that code.  At the
beginning of the function write:

global stored_data

Then the interpreter will know which scope it is in so that the
assignment will assign to the global one, rather than create a new
local one.

HTH,
-D

On Wed, Jan 03, 2001 at 02:13:51PM -0800, Curtis Jensen wrote:
<snip>  
> 
> def send_data():
<snip>
>   #clear stored_data
>   stored_data = []
> #end def send_data



From robin at alldunn.com  Thu Jan 25 16:14:31 2001
From: robin at alldunn.com (Robin Dunn)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 13:14:31 -0800
Subject: what GUI, please advise
References: <3A6F18F2.536F27FE@crepido.com>, <3A6F0B27.A88D11C9@crepido.com> <756399CF731B46D9.57530C0D0C9C2171.472E737DF76189F7@lp.airnews.net> <mailman.980360668.7701.python-list@python.org> <%aHb6.34$4vh.3735820@news.randori.com> <fBYb6.1732$_8.19419@news1.rdc1.bc.home.com>
Message-ID: <nI0c6.19$DPo.2359644@news.randori.com>

"Dethe Elza" <delza at antarcti.ca> wrote in message news:fBYb6.1732$_8.19419 at news1.rdc1.bc.home.com...
> Do you have pointers to the "upcoming XML resources format?"  Is this the
> wxPWyitdhoonws resource
> format, or something more general.  Any documentation?
> 

An initial version is in the wxWindows CVS on the main branch in the contrib directory.  Some starting browse points are:

http://cvs.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/wxWindows/contrib/include/wx/xml/?cvsroot=wxwindows

http://cvs.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/wxWindows/contrib/src/xml/?cvsroot=wxwindows



-- 
Robin Dunn
Software Craftsman
robin at AllDunn.com       Java give you jitters?
http://wxPython.org      Relax with wxPython!




From jerryleekeeney at yahoo.com  Sun Jan 28 14:44:54 2001
From: jerryleekeeney at yahoo.com (jerry keeney)
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 11:44:54 -0800 (PST)
Subject: (no subject)
Message-ID: <20010128194454.79933.qmail@web9606.mail.yahoo.com>

When using win98, I go to 'start/programs/msdos
window/',  I then switch to my python directory (where
I also keep my scripts I'm working on), and type
something like this:

python Iliketrafficlights.py

That hopefully helps you



Ok, I need some help here.  I just download python on
my computer.
I installed it to     C:\programming\python20

I know how to use the interactive mode.  And when
write a script I 
usually
run it from the editor(idle) by clicking on "run
script".

But when I try to run the script using the
interpreter, it doesn't 
work.
What I do is to type the name of the script.py in the
interactive mode. 
It
always give me an error message like:
                        Traceback (most recent call
last):
                          File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
                        NameError: There is no
variable named 'hello'

Is the interpreter suppose to be in interactive mode
everytime?

If you have no idea of what I am talking about, can
you just describe 
me how
you usually run your script.


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. 
http://auctions.yahoo.com/



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sun Jan 28 02:49:17 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 08:49:17 +0100
Subject: . Python 2.1 function attributes
References: <mailman.980660493.13036.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <950j3l01se5@news2.newsguy.com>

"Tim Peters" <tim.one at home.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.980660493.13036.python-list at python.org...
    [snip: the print>> botch]
> would-be-more-impressed-by-the-damnation-of-people-who've-actually-
>     tried-it-ly y'rs  - tim

Would you?  OK, assuming this is not just cheap rhetoric, then: I've tried
it and I damn it worse then ever.  Specifically, my son is learning Python
as a spare-time activity (age: 17, background: Pascal, some assembler),
and is loving it and finding it extremely impressive (he thinks of computers
as tools, not ends in themselves -- a trait he must have gotten from his
mother, I guess -- and he paid Python the highest possible compliment
when he said 'it gets out of my way and just lets me DO things').  Issues
that have given him problems so far, and resolutions of said issues:

a. undefined-variables: he somehow expected that an x+=1, if x had
    not been bound yet, would set x to 1; after reasoning about it he
    agreed that it was clearer to start by setting x=0 before the loop
    and AFAIK he doesn't do that mistake any more.

b. he keeps trying to use x.length() and slapping his forehead after
    getting the error and changing to len(x); still claims this makes no
    sense and that it SHOULD be a method, and not abbreviated, from
    what the rest of the language leads him to expect.

c. he keeps forgetting to end clauses with a colon ('else', etc); still
    grumbles that omitting that colon should be OK.

[No problem with / truncating, mixed-case issues, nor scoping -- all
things I _thought_ might give him problems given how Pascal does
it -- so I guess my preliminary explanations sufficed for those].

d. he thought print>>file would APPEND to the file object and never
    OVERWRITE it -- at least once tried writing 'print>file' for the
    latter purpose -- and I also heard him complain than then 'of
    course' input<file should also work.  Last I head he deemed it
    a 'total mess' and swore he'd stick with write/writelines for his
    file output needs.

I guess the unbiased opinions of a Python newbie don't count for
much, but, me, I was impressed that the 'print>>' made up 1/3
of the grand total of his objections to Python -- just about anything
else he took in stride and found to work just as expected (his two
other enduring objections, interestingly enough, are _also_ to
minor syntax-sugar issues -- and they don't look totally unfounded
to me, either).  It is of course possible that I subconsciously passed
my biases to him, but he's a pretty independent guy (and the fact
that he has no trouble with / truncating seems to confirm that).


Alex





From jdries at mail.com  Sat Jan 27 15:47:49 2001
From: jdries at mail.com (Jan Dries)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 21:47:49 +0100
Subject: . Python 2.1 function attributes
References: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0101271158190.3501-100000@y.glue.umd.edu>, <Pine.GSO.4.21.0101270135190.7677-100000@y.glue.umd.edu> <mailman.980593892.725.python-list@python.org> <$5A+ZwAGjtc6EwE0@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <14962.62953.304511.523826@anthem.wooz.org> <mailman.980613639.23439.python-list@python.org> <mailman.980617472.28020.python-list@python.org> <Pine.GSO.4.21.0101271303540.3501-100000@y.glue.umd.edu>
Message-ID: <3A7333F5.DA1E367B@mail.com>

Roy Katz wrote:
> 
> Let's see it! petition! vote! who wants and who doesn't?  No more of this
> of this 'Benevolent Dictator' or 'Hey I've got a patch' garbage.  *vote*
> and make Python not the patcher's language, not my language, and not
> yours, but *our* language. Lechayim, people!
> 

Deciding upon what should go into a design and what shouldn't by voting
is a VERY BAD IDEA, because it leads to camels (no P*** pun intended). A
"camel" is a methaphor for the "design by committee" antipattern,
because a camel, as they say, is the concensus reached though a majority
of votes by a committee instructed to design a horse.

Take any serious book on design or software architecture, and you will
find they all stress the importance of conceptual integrity, and often
suggest identifying one single architect (call him a 'benevolent
dictator') to make the decisions on what should and what should not go
into the design. In large projects there may be a handful of others the
lead architect can delegate some decisions to. 

I doubt Python would have been the wonderful language it is today had it
not been for Guido's benevolent dictatorship, just as Linux wouldn't
have been Linux without Linus and just as St.-Paul's Cathedral in London
wouldn't have been so magnificent if it had been designed by votes
rather than Christopher Wren.

On the other hand, adding features just because someone has a patch for
it is just as bad an idea as adding features by vote. 

Still, adding features to a language is not necessarily bad, IMO, not
even if it means there then are more ways to do the same thing. Any
"for" can be written as a "while", "if a != b:" can be written as "if
not a == b:" and even the plain "print" statement (without >>) can
always be written in terms of "write()".

But as was already pointed out by Tim, Moshe and others in this thread,
features like "print >>" and function attributes offer "obvious, simple
and easy to understand" alternatives to more cumbersome constructions in
regularly encountered situations. Because of that I personally think
"print >>" was a usefull addition, and that function attributes will be
an equally good addition. 
Although I must admit the ">>" was perhaps ill-chosen, because it makes
people think it's an operator (as it is in C++) while in fact it's just
part of the syntax of the print statement. Perhaps if "print >> file,
something" were written as "print to file, something" there wouldn't be
so much controversy over it, even though it wouldn't be doing more or
less than it does today. Just as there'd been war if "import module as
m" had been implemented as "import module >> m".

Regards, 
Jan



From fredrik at effbot.org  Fri Jan 19 06:29:58 2001
From: fredrik at effbot.org (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 11:29:58 GMT
Subject: Skip paths when using zipfile-module
References: <hoV96.10874$wt2.124708@news1.oke.nextra.no>
Message-ID: <WyV96.7219$Qb7.1078307@newsb.telia.net>

Thomas Weholt wrote:
> Just started using the zipfile-module in Python 2.0 and it works great, but
> I need to skip the path info. I want to create an archive with just the
> files in them, stored without paths. Didn't see any options/info about this
> in the docs. Any clues ?

pass the name you want in the archive as the second
argument to the write method:

# zipfile-example-3.py
# (from the upcoming second edition of the eff-bot guide)

import zipfile
import glob, os

file = zipfile.ZipFile("test.zip", "w")

for name in glob.glob("samples/*"):
    file.write(name, os.path.basename(name), zipfile.ZIP_DEFLATED)

# -rest of example snipped-

Hope this helps!

Cheers /F

<!-- (the eff-bot guide to) the standard python library:
http://www.pythonware.com/people/fredrik/librarybook.htm
-->




From root at rainerdeyke.com  Tue Jan 30 11:29:26 2001
From: root at rainerdeyke.com (Rainer Deyke)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 16:29:26 GMT
Subject: curly-brace-aphobic?
References: <3A74EBD6.3C87FD15@seebelow.org> <slrn97a9fu.7sf.clgonsal@keeshah.penguinpowered.com> <slrn97bicg.8va.quinn@bolivar.ugcs.caltech.edu> <VQld6.131650$ge4.48028897@news2.rdc2.tx.home.com> <slrn97cu0u.eti.quinn@groat.ugcs.caltech.edu>
Message-ID: <GZBd6.136938$ge4.49415183@news2.rdc2.tx.home.com>

"Quinn Dunkan" <quinn at groat.ugcs.caltech.edu> wrote in message
news:slrn97cu0u.eti.quinn at groat.ugcs.caltech.edu...
> If C++ allows 'f(x) = y;', then C++ is truly weird.  What is *that*
supposed
> to mean?  'f(x)' returns a value, and assigning to a value makes no sense.
> You assign to variables, not values.  I could understand '*(f(x)) = y;',
but
> the only way I can see to get 'f(x) = y;' to do what you want is to have
'f'
> return an lvalue.  Icon does stuff like that, but it has an excuse: it's
icon.
> Just out of curiosity, what is the type of the C++ 'f' function above (and
> don't say "cpp macro" :) ?  It's likely C++'s idea of assignment is one
I'm
> not familiar with.

'f' here is a function that returns a reference:

int& f(int);

This is particularily useful when implementing 'operator[]':

struct array {
  int data[5];
  int& operator[](int n) { return data[n]; }
};

array a;
a[0] = 5;
a.operator[](0) = 5; // This statement is equivalent to the one above it.


--
Rainer Deyke (root at rainerdeyke.com)
Shareware computer games           -           http://rainerdeyke.com
"In ihren Reihen zu stehen heisst unter Feinden zu kaempfen" - Abigor




From tim.one at home.com  Thu Jan 25 06:24:29 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 06:24:29 -0500
Subject: Migrate Python prototype to C++: regex?
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCIECFILAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Franz GEIGER]
> ...
> Can anyone recommend a regex package for C++?

    http://www.boost.org/libs/regex/index.htm

Also not to be missed:

    http://www.boost.org/libs/python/doc/index.html





From cg at schlund.de  Thu Jan 25 07:04:10 2001
From: cg at schlund.de (Carsten Gaebler)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 13:04:10 +0100
Subject: "print" strange with Sybase module
Message-ID: <3A70163A.10D995@schlund.de>

Hi there!

The following simple program (sqltest.py) returns about 20 lines of
Sybase output when run as "./sqltest.py". But if I say

./sqltest.py | tee /tmp/test.txt

there is no output and test.txt is empty. What's going wrong? It's
Sybase module 0.10 with Python 2.0.

#!/usr/bin/python
import Sybase

query = "select * from shorttable"

syb_db = Sybase.connect('server', 'username', 'passwd')
syb_db.execute('use mydb')

rows = syb_db.execute(query)[0]
for row in rows: print row

syb_db.close()


Regards
Carsten.


From kthangavelu at earthlink.net  Wed Jan 10 22:00:08 2001
From: kthangavelu at earthlink.net (Kapil Thangavelu)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 03:00:08 GMT
Subject: zodb & multiple processes
References: <kuhf36hotz.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>
Message-ID: <Yk976.1119$mX.27921@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>

yes the zodb is thread safe (zope is multithreaded). it actually makes
programming
multithreaded programs a bit easier as objects which inherit from the
persistent classes
become thread safe (although it assumes a bit optimism regarding the rate of
object changes,
the optimism won't corrupt your data but its something to be aware of).

as long as your're objects are not changing frequently its a pretty good way
to avoid lots of
concurrency control around your objects.

currently the zodb assumes a process lock on a particular zodb storage. if
you want to run it with
multiple processes you can use ZEO, which is a bit heavyweight if you want
your app to run on
one machine as it communicates over tcp/ip.

for more info check out jim fulton's IPC 8 paper on zope.org and amk's
starship homepage.

kapil


Erno Kuusela <erno-news at erno.iki.fi> wrote in message
news:kuhf36hotz.fsf at lasipalatsi.fi...
> hello,
>
> from the looks of things, zodb is thread-safe in that you can use
> connections to the same storage from many threads at once and
> have it not break.
>
> how about multiple processes? will it just work, just not work,
> or require special incantations?
>
>   -- erno




From oblomov at freemail.it  Wed Jan 17 17:07:50 2001
From: oblomov at freemail.it (Giuseppe Bilotta)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 22:07:50 GMT
Subject: "Total flattening" of a tuple
Message-ID: <WIo96.76570$eB2.6161239@news.infostrada.it>

Hello,

I'd like to know if it's possible to "totally flatten" a tuple, or to decompose it ... ok, an example will (hopefully) explain what
I want.

Let's say that I have to pack (struct.pack) a tuple of numbers (actually, originally a list). I would go like this:

result = ""
for i in mylist :
    result = result + struct.pack('B', i)

Now, I wondered if it was possible to do something like:

packmode = str(len(mylist)) + 'B' # this prepares the packing structure
result = struct.pack(packmode, flatten(mylist))


where "flatten" would be a command to unpack the sequence mylist, *without* the external ( ... ) [that is, tuple(mylist) doesn't
work, because it would make the command in

struct.pack(packmode, (tuple))

while the "pack" command wants

struct.pack(packmode, tuple_element_1, tuple_element_2, ...)

(that is, without the external (...) in the tuple).

Is this feasable? If yes, how?


Thank you for your attention,

--
Giuseppe Bilotta






From fredrik at effbot.org  Tue Jan 23 12:47:08 2001
From: fredrik at effbot.org (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 17:47:08 GMT
Subject: Complete list of Python IDEs
References: <slrn96q24u.c2s.ahopkins@ahopkins.dynacare.com>
Message-ID: <wsjb6.8416$AH6.1356640@newsc.telia.net>

Albert Hopkins wrote:
> I know there are a few open source and commercial Python-ware IDEs
> available, but does there exist a list somwhere comparing features as well
> as contact info?

Here's a start:

http://www.faqts.com/knowledge_base/view.phtml/aid/6433/fid/199

Cheers /F




From nas at arctrix.com  Sat Jan 13 10:11:16 2001
From: nas at arctrix.com (Neil Schemenauer)
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 07:11:16 -0800
Subject: ZODB and Python 2.0
In-Reply-To: <DW286.140362$15.29728375@news1.rdc1.az.home.com>; from lvanderfeltz@knowledgetrax.com on Sat, Jan 13, 2001 at 08:31:31PM +0000
References: <mailman.979337025.17444.python-list@python.org> <slrn95vje6.gm.amk@207-172-113-55.s55.tnt5.ann.va.dialup.rcn.com> <DW286.140362$15.29728375@news1.rdc1.az.home.com>
Message-ID: <20010113071116.A28643@glacier.fnational.com>

On Sat, Jan 13, 2001 at 08:31:31PM +0000, Lennard van der Feltz wrote:
> Isn't the bigger issue that ExtensionClasses are not yet available for
> Python 2.0?

Huh?  It works fine AFAIK.

  Neil



From jasonic at nomadicsltd.com  Thu Jan 11 21:11:26 2001
From: jasonic at nomadicsltd.com (Jason Cunliffe)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 21:11:26 -0500
Subject: Python Design Patterns (was Re: Should I learn Python or Java?)
References: <HEO56.5504$y9.2881293@typhoon.we.rr.com> <978840685.459818@emperor.labs.agilent.com> <3A5DF377.791E3DE0@comm.mot.com> <mailman.979261515.31284.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <t5spo7e869rpe9@corp.supernews.com>

A very readable patterns introductory book is:

"A UML Pattern Language" by Paul Evitts.
300 pages 1 edition (February 2000)
Amazon price = $40.00

Macmillan Technical Publishing; ISBN: 157870118X
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/157870118X/hallbook/107-8994515-32589
04

He does not overevangelaize a 'one and only true path to enlightenment'.
Rather the book engages the reader to folow the key ideas against a
historical development of key concepts.
Illustrated with good examples, concise writing style and an open
exploratory attitude.


Another highly recommended book is:

Pattern Languages of Program Design 4 (Software Patterns Series)
by Neil Harrison (Editor), Brian Foote (Editor), Hans Rohnert (Editor)

Amazon Price: $42.95
Paperback - 784 pages 1 edition (December 17, 1999)
Addison-Wesley Pub Co; ISBN: 0201433044
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0201433044/qid=979264577/sr=1-4/ref=s
c_b_4/107-8994515-3258904


This is an excellent lively anthology inclding some great shor section
editorials.
I wodl say htis vlume is more readily adapted to immediate Python
programming because so many of the examples are so good.
The book presentes a very instructive array of authors, approaches and
levels of analysis, which in my world translates into more useful.
It is a better bang for the buck, not becuaes it is fatter but because it is
richer in scope.

Botha are general non-cod oriented books which makes htem suitabel as much
for python as any other.

Please, let me know if you find a Python specific Patterns book.
I susepct none exist and think it coudl be an excellent idea:

"Experiments in Design Patterns with Python"
..anyone ??

- Jason
___________________________________________________________
Jason CUNLIFFE = NOMADICS['Interactive Art and Technology']

D-Man <dsh8290 at rit.edu> wrote in message
news:mailman.979261515.31284.python-list at python.org...
> On Thu, Jan 11, 2001 at 11:55:04AM -0600, Stephen Boulet wrote:
> | Brian Zhou wrote:
> [snip]
> |
> | Can anyone recommend some literature about design patterns that would be
> | helpful to someone learning to program python?
> |
>
> There's always the Gang of Four book "Design Patterns".  For the
> examples they use mostly C++ with some Smalltalk.  Some things would
> be implemented quite different in python (such as Singleton) due to
> python's nice dynamic nature.
>
> I'm interested to know if there is any literature re Python specific
> design patterns (or the Pythonic way of implementing the Gang of
> Four's patterns).
>
> -D





From erno-news at erno.iki.fi  Wed Jan 24 11:29:28 2001
From: erno-news at erno.iki.fi (Erno Kuusela)
Date: 24 Jan 2001 18:29:28 +0200
Subject: Python: what's the best way to copy files on a LAN?
References: <3a6f0af0.272878461@news.interchange.ubc.ca>
Message-ID: <kuy9w07w2f.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>

In article <3a6f0af0.272878461 at news.interchange.ubc.ca>,
kmbotha at netinfo.ubc.ca (Kris Botha) writes:

| I mean security-wise. I'd like to use FTPLIB but am hesitant about the
| security issues involved in using that plain-text protocol.

scp works pretty well, if all your hosts run sshd.

the python 2.0 socket library has ssl support. but
there is no documentation, and unless you can figure out
what sort of incantations you are supposed to do
to make it work securely you should probably avoid it.

the httplib.HTTPS class seems to know of arguments
called cert_file and key_file... anyone know how these
work?

in pk systems you generally need a public key and a private
key. and then you need to have the other ends public key.
in ssl there's also a concept of certificate authorities
that's a little like pgp's web of trust but suckier ( ;) ).
could it be that the "key" file hods your public and private
keys and "cert" holds your list of certificate authorities?

  -- erno


From calcium at altavista.net  Mon Jan 15 07:13:40 2001
From: calcium at altavista.net (ccang)
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 23:13:40 +1100
Subject: SQL-Statement with Python
References: <mailman.979560315.11888.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3A62E974.C68B6C67@altavista.net>

Servus,
I have a Jpython script which accesses a mdb database.
It uses jdbc.
See http://www.ozemail.com.au/~calcium/scripts.html

I'm pretty sure there is an ODBC thing for Python.
Would look it up for u but I'm tired.

Ciao,
Chai
http://www.ozemail.com.au/~calcium

Juergen Hofer wrote:

> Hi to all!
>
> Is it possible to connect to a M$-Access Database (*.mdb) with
Python
> and make simple SQL-Queries and import the results into a list?
> I'm using Python2.0 under Windows98.
>
> Thanks
> J?rgen



Simon Brunning wrote:

> > From: Juergen Hofer [SMTP:juergen.hofer at students.uni-linz.ac.at]
> > Is it possible to connect to a M$-Access Database (*.mdb) with Python
> > and make simple SQL-Queries and import the results into a list?
> > I'm using Python2.0 under Windows98.
>
> Try mxODBC, from <http://www.lemburg.com/files/python/>. Don't forget to
> read the licence - there are restrictions.
>
> Cheers,
> Simon Brunning
> TriSystems Ltd.
> sbrunning at trisystems.co.uk
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> The information in this email is confidential and may be legally privileged.
> It is intended solely for the addressee. Access to this email by anyone else
> is unauthorised. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure,
> copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in
> reliance on it, is prohibited and may be unlawful. TriSystems Ltd. cannot
> accept liability for statements made which are clearly the senders own.

--
| mailto:calcium at ozemail.com.au   | +61 401 688 408
| My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-bitch -Rich Jeni




From nils.hensel at online.de  Sun Jan 21 17:24:07 2001
From: nils.hensel at online.de (Nils Hensel)
Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 23:24:07 +0100
Subject: Newbee!!BPL question! Printing to standard output
References: <3A6B4D04.14B661E2@magnet.fsu.edu>
Message-ID: <94fnkp$sdc$1@news.online.de>

You mean something like:

print "some text"

:o)

Of course you could do it the long way:

import sys
sys.stdout.write ("some text")

Nils


"Khaled Khairy" <khairy at magnet.fsu.edu> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:3A6B4D04.14B661E2 at magnet.fsu.edu...
> I use ActiveState and use BPL for exposing a C++ library using VC6.
> Can I, and how do I print to the standard output or to the ActiveState
> interpreter screen directly,
> without having to return a string ?  Something like calling
> cout<<"some text" ;    within a function.
> I would appreciate any help, thank you.
> Khaled Khairy
>




From guido at digicool.com  Mon Jan 22 22:33:02 2001
From: guido at digicool.com (Guido van Rossum)
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 22:33:02 -0500
Subject: Python 2.1 alpha 1 released!
Message-ID: <200101230333.WAA28376@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>

Thanks to the PythonLabs developers and the many hard-working
volunteers, I'm proud to release Python 2.1a1 -- the first alpha
release of Python version 2.1.

The release mechanics are different than for previous releases: we're
only releasing through SourceForge for now.  The official source
tarball is already available from the download page:

  http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=5470

Additional files will be released soon: a Windows installer,
Linux RPMs, and documentation.

Please give it a good try!  The only way Python 2.1 can become a
rock-solid product is if people test the alpha releases.  Especially
if you are using Python for demanding applications or on extreme
platforms we are interested in hearing your feedback.  Are you
embedding Python or using threads?  Please test your application using
Python 2.1a1!  Please submit all bug reports through SourceForge:

  http://sourceforge.net/bugs/?group_id=5470

Here's the NEWS file:

What's New in Python 2.1 alpha 1?
=================================

Core language, builtins, and interpreter

- There is a new Unicode companion to the PyObject_Str() API
  called PyObject_Unicode(). It behaves in the same way as the
  former, but assures that the returned value is an Unicode object
  (applying the usual coercion if necessary).

- The comparison operators support "rich comparison overloading" (PEP
  207).  C extension types can provide a rich comparison function in
  the new tp_richcompare slot in the type object.  The cmp() function
  and the C function PyObject_Compare() first try the new rich
  comparison operators before trying the old 3-way comparison.  There
  is also a new C API PyObject_RichCompare() (which also falls back on
  the old 3-way comparison, but does not constrain the outcome of the
  rich comparison to a Boolean result).

  The rich comparison function takes two objects (at least one of
  which is guaranteed to have the type that provided the function) and
  an integer indicating the opcode, which can be Py_LT, Py_LE, Py_EQ,
  Py_NE, Py_GT, Py_GE (for <, <=, ==, !=, >, >=), and returns a Python
  object, which may be NotImplemented (in which case the tp_compare
  slot function is used as a fallback, if defined).

  Classes can overload individual comparison operators by defining one
  or more of the methods__lt__, __le__, __eq__, __ne__, __gt__,
  __ge__.  There are no explicit "reflected argument" versions of
  these; instead, __lt__ and __gt__ are each other's reflection,
  likewise for__le__ and __ge__; __eq__ and __ne__ are their own
  reflection (similar at the C level).  No other implications are
  made; in particular, Python does not assume that == is the Boolean
  inverse of !=, or that < is the Boolean inverse of >=.  This makes
  it possible to define types with partial orderings.

  Classes or types that want to implement (in)equality tests but not
  the ordering operators (i.e. unordered types) should implement ==
  and !=, and raise an error for the ordering operators.

  It is possible to define types whose rich comparison results are not
  Boolean; e.g. a matrix type might want to return a matrix of bits
  for A < B, giving elementwise comparisons.  Such types should ensure
  that any interpretation of their value in a Boolean context raises
  an exception, e.g. by defining __nonzero__ (or the tp_nonzero slot
  at the C level) to always raise an exception.

- Complex numbers use rich comparisons to define == and != but raise
  an exception for <, <=, > and >=.  Unfortunately, this also means
  that cmp() of two complex numbers raises an exception when the two
  numbers differ.  Since it is not mathematically meaningful to compare
  complex numbers except for equality, I hope that this doesn't break
  too much code.

- Functions and methods now support getting and setting arbitrarily
  named attributes (PEP 232).  Functions have a new __dict__
  (a.k.a. func_dict) which hold the function attributes.  Methods get
  and set attributes on their underlying im_func.  It is a TypeError
  to set an attribute on a bound method.

- The xrange() object implementation has been improved so that
  xrange(sys.maxint) can be used on 64-bit platforms.  There's still a
  limitation that in this case len(xrange(sys.maxint)) can't be
  calculated, but the common idiom "for i in xrange(sys.maxint)" will
  work fine as long as the index i doesn't actually reach 2**31.
  (Python uses regular ints for sequence and string indices; fixing
  that is much more work.)

- Two changes to from...import:

  1) "from M import X" now works even if M is not a real module; it's
     basically a getattr() operation with AttributeError exceptions
     changed into ImportError.

  2) "from M import *" now looks for M.__all__ to decide which names to
     import; if M.__all__ doesn't exist, it uses M.__dict__.keys() but
     filters out names starting with '_' as before.  Whether or not
     __all__ exists, there's no restriction on the type of M.

- File objects have a new method, xreadlines().  This is the fastest
  way to iterate over all lines in a file:

  for line in file.xreadlines():
      ...do something to line...

  See the xreadlines module (mentioned below) for how to do this for
  other file-like objects.

- Even if you don't use file.xreadlines(), you may expect a speedup on
  line-by-line input.  The file.readline() method has been optimized
  quite a bit in platform-specific ways:  on systems (like Linux) that
  support flockfile(), getc_unlocked(), and funlockfile(), those are
  used by default.  On systems (like Windows) without getc_unlocked(),
  a complicated (but still thread-safe) method using fgets() is used by
  default.

  You can force use of the fgets() method by #define'ing 
  USE_FGETS_IN_GETLINE at build time (it may be faster than 
  getc_unlocked()).

  You can force fgets() not to be used by #define'ing 
  DONT_USE_FGETS_IN_GETLINE (this is the first thing to try if std test 
  test_bufio.py fails -- and let us know if it does!).

- In addition, the fileinput module, while still slower than the other
  methods on most platforms, has been sped up too, by using
  file.readlines(sizehint).

- Support for run-time warnings has been added, including a new
  command line option (-W) to specify the disposition of warnings.
  See the description of the warnings module below.

- Extensive changes have been made to the coercion code.  This mostly
  affects extension modules (which can now implement mixed-type
  numerical operators without having to use coercion), but
  occasionally, in boundary cases the coercion semantics have changed
  subtly.  Since this was a terrible gray area of the language, this
  is considered an improvement.  Also note that __rcmp__ is no longer
  supported -- instead of calling __rcmp__, __cmp__ is called with
  reflected arguments.

- In connection with the coercion changes, a new built-in singleton
  object, NotImplemented is defined.  This can be returned for
  operations that wish to indicate they are not implemented for a
  particular combination of arguments.  From C, this is
  Py_NotImplemented.

- The interpreter accepts now bytecode files on the command line even
  if they do not have a .pyc or .pyo extension. On Linux, after executing

  echo ':pyc:M::\x87\xc6\x0d\x0a::/usr/local/bin/python:' > /proc/sys/fs/binfmt_misc/register

  any byte code file can be used as an executable (i.e. as an argument
  to execve(2)).

- %[xXo] formats of negative Python longs now produce a sign
  character.  In 1.6 and earlier, they never produced a sign,
  and raised an error if the value of the long was too large
  to fit in a Python int.  In 2.0, they produced a sign if and
  only if too large to fit in an int.  This was inconsistent
  across platforms (because the size of an int varies across
  platforms), and inconsistent with hex() and oct().  Example:

  >>> "%x" % -0x42L
  '-42'      # in 2.1
  'ffffffbe' # in 2.0 and before, on 32-bit machines
  >>> hex(-0x42L)
  '-0x42L'   # in all versions of Python

  The behavior of %d formats for negative Python longs remains
  the same as in 2.0 (although in 1.6 and before, they raised
  an error if the long didn't fit in a Python int).

  %u formats don't make sense for Python longs, but are allowed
  and treated the same as %d in 2.1.  In 2.0, a negative long
  formatted via %u produced a sign if and only if too large to
  fit in an int.  In 1.6 and earlier, a negative long formatted
  via %u raised an error if it was too big to fit in an int.

- Dictionary objects have an odd new method, popitem().  This removes
  an arbitrary item from the dictionary and returns it (in the form of
  a (key, value) pair).  This can be useful for algorithms that use a
  dictionary as a bag of "to do" items and repeatedly need to pick one
  item.  Such algorithms normally end up running in quadratic time;
  using popitem() they can usually be made to run in linear time.

Standard library

- In the time module, the time argument to the functions strftime,
  localtime, gmtime, asctime and ctime is now optional, defaulting to
  the current time (in the local timezone).

- The ftplib module now defaults to passive mode, which is deemed a
  more useful default given that clients are often inside firewalls
  these days.  Note that this could break if ftplib is used to connect
  to a *server* that is inside a firewall, from outside; this is
  expected to be a very rare situation.  To fix that, you can call
  ftp.set_pasv(0).

- The module site now treats .pth files not only for path configuration,
  but also supports extensions to the initialization code: Lines starting
  with import are executed.

- There's a new module, warnings, which implements a mechanism for
  issuing and filtering warnings.  There are some new built-in
  exceptions that serve as warning categories, and a new command line
  option, -W, to control warnings (e.g. -Wi ignores all warnings, -We
  turns warnings into errors).  warnings.warn(message[, category])
  issues a warning message; this can also be called from C as
  PyErr_Warn(category, message).

- A new module xreadlines was added.  This exports a single factory
  function, xreadlines().  The intention is that this code is the
  absolutely fastest way to iterate over all lines in an open
  file(-like) object:

  import xreadlines
  for line in xreadlines.xreadlines(file):
      ...do something to line...

  This is equivalent to the previous the speed record holder using
  file.readlines(sizehint).  Note that if file is a real file object
  (as opposed to a file-like object), this is equivalent:

  for line in file.xreadlines():
      ...do something to line...

- The bisect module has new functions bisect_left, insort_left,
  bisect_right and insort_right.  The old names bisect and insort
  are now aliases for bisect_right and insort_right.  XXX_right
  and XXX_left methods differ in what happens when the new element
  compares equal to one or more elements already in the list:  the
  XXX_left methods insert to the left, the XXX_right methods to the
  right.  Code that doesn't care where equal elements end up should
  continue to use the old, short names ("bisect" and "insort").

- The new curses.panel module wraps the panel library that forms part
  of SYSV curses and ncurses.  Contributed by Thomas Gellekum.

- The SocketServer module now sets the allow_reuse_address flag by
  default in the TCPServer class.

- A new function, sys._getframe(), returns the stack frame pointer of
  the caller.  This is intended only as a building block for
  higher-level mechanisms such as string interpolation.

Build issues

- For Unix (and Unix-compatible) builds, configuration and building of
  extension modules is now greatly automated.  Rather than having to
  edit the Modules/Setup file to indicate which modules should be
  built and where their include files and libraries are, a
  distutils-based setup.py script now takes care of building most
  extension modules.  All extension modules built this way are built
  as shared libraries.  Only a few modules that must be linked
  statically are still listed in the Setup file; you won't need to
  edit their configuration.

- Python should now build out of the box on Cygwin.  If it doesn't,
  mail to Jason Tishler (jlt63 at users.sourceforge.net).

- Python now always uses its own (renamed) implementation of getopt()
  -- there's too much variation among C library getopt()
  implementations.

- C++ compilers are better supported; the CXX macro is always set to a
  C++ compiler if one is found.

Windows changes

- select module:  By default under Windows, a select() call
  can specify no more than 64 sockets.  Python now boosts
  this Microsoft default to 512.  If you need even more than
  that, see the MS docs (you'll need to #define FD_SETSIZE
  and recompile Python from source).

- Support for Windows 3.1, DOS and OS/2 is gone.  The Lib/dos-8x3
  subdirectory is no more!

--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)



From amk at mira.erols.com  Tue Jan 16 20:41:17 2001
From: amk at mira.erols.com (A.M. Kuchling)
Date: 17 Jan 2001 01:41:17 GMT
Subject: adding the XML to 2.0 to be a mistake?
References: <mailman.979611383.15529.python-list@python.org> <3d8zocuqrd.fsf@kronos.cnri.reston.va.us> <3a646756.124812921@news1.on.sympatico.ca> <3A64C78C.2E77775F@quasar.ipa.nw.ru>
Message-ID: <slrn969urr.gd.amk@207-172-112-159.s159.tnt4.ann.va.dialup.rcn.com>

On Tue, 16 Jan 2001 14:13:32 -0800, 
	Alexander V. Voinov <avv at quasar.ipa.nw.ru> wrote:
>Ok, is it safe to install current versions of PyXML and related products
>on top of the standard Python-2.0 installation? How to do this safely,
>in other words?

Just install the current PyXML version; the xml/ package in Python 2.0
will magically delegate all operations to a separately installed
version of PyXML if present.

--amk




From tim.one at home.com  Mon Jan 29 07:08:32 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 07:08:32 -0500
Subject: "in" for dicts (was: Python 2.1 function attributes)
In-Reply-To: <20010129115331.S962@xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCKEPEILAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Thomas Wouters]
> Two of my colleagues (out of two interrogated) didn't quite get
> it [x in dict, for x in dict]. It's not that they didn't understand
> the idea, but it wasn't quite what they expected. They aren't quite
> feeble :) But it's also true that their expectations were different
> in the 'for' case.

Don't be such a tease:  what *did* they expect?  I'm guessing they expected
to iterate over (key, value) pairs in the "for" case -- but only because
that's what you suggested on Python-Dev <wink>.

> My main beef with the 'x in dict' idea is something Nathaniel
> didn't raise, though: we all seem to think 'x in dict' is naturally
> 'key in dict' -- but why?

If we in fact all think that, it doesn't matter why:  it can't be confusing
or surprising if it's a universal expectation.

> Is it because we all know you can't *get* a value from a dict without
> extracting them all, and all values could be the same ? How obvious is
> that to people without a technical idea of dictionaries ?

Well, I suspect the idea that you *could* "look up" by value is something
only a tech-head would imagine.  Nobody searches phone books or Webster's
"backwards" in real life.  Even tech-heads don't seem to have much use for
it, to judge from Ping's quantification of "[for] x in dict.values()"
constructs in the std library:

    http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2001-January/012106.html

I didn't think that was surprising.  A tech-head would know enough to build
a mirror dict (inverse relation) if they *did* need to search values often,
and any occurrence of that would be counted as an operation on the keys.

However, Ping didn't count occurrences of

    for k, v in dict.items()

and there are far from a trivial number of those.  I'll mention that on
Python-Dev.

> ...
> I haven't seen Guido approve of 'for x in dict' yet, though.

He approved of "Ping's proposal", and at the top of the msg in which he did
that:

    http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2001-January/012110.html

he presumably quoted the specific parts of Ping's proposal he was talking
about (the two dict "in" parts, not the new list methods).  And you seemed
to believe that when you announced your patch!  That is, in

    http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2001-January/012116.html

you explained why your patch *didn't* implement the "for" part.  Seems an
odd digression if you didn't think Guido was asking for that too <wink>.

> ...
> Further fleshing out of the iteration protocol would probably have to wait
> until Python 2.2, if only for the fact it really needs a real PEP :)

Yes, and there's a long-paused thread on generators/coroutines that needs to
get revived for that.

a-hack-or-a-project-some-days-they-all-seem-the-same-ly y'rs  - tim




From rcameszREMOVETHIS at dds.removethistoo.nl  Wed Jan 17 11:07:53 2001
From: rcameszREMOVETHIS at dds.removethistoo.nl (Robert Amesz)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 16:07:53 GMT
Subject: using __init__ with params ( somewhat long )
References: <slrn969988.5uj.corey@scanner.axcelerant.com>
Message-ID: <902CA0151rcamesz@127.0.0.1>

Corey wrote:

> I'm new to Python ( from 5 odd years of Perl ), so
> please bare with me...  
         ^^^^

Ehm... You *are* aware this is comp.lang.python and *not* a nudist
colony, aren't you? 


Robert Amesz
-- 
So this is what Perl does to people. Sad, very sad... ;-)


From wedjlok at excite.com  Tue Jan  9 14:32:22 2001
From: wedjlok at excite.com (Eric Anechiarico)
Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2001 19:32:22 GMT
Subject: Fibonacci numbers/program
References: <936gsv$3r1$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <936r2h0ps5@news1.newsguy.com> <93d92t$7si$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <93fjsd$1cj$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <93fp07$5mb$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

In article <93fjsd$1cj$1 at nnrp1.deja.com>,
  David C. Ullrich <ullrich at math.okstate.edu> wrote:
> > Basically, I am defining the command to
> > def FindFibBetween(A,B), having it go through the simple sequence of
> > getting the numbers, and then they output them to a screen.  I want
to
> > interven so that it will NOT print them to a screen, but dump them
> > directly into a text file.
> >
> > So what I need to know is at what point to I call it in the program
to
> > open a file, write the numbers to it, and then close the file?
> >
> > Here is the complete code that I use so far:
> >
> > def FindFibBetween(A,B):
> >   x, y = 1L, 1L
> >   while x < B:
> >     if x >= A: print x
> >     x, y = y, x+y
>
> What a clever function. (Did I really write that? There's an
> unused addition at the end of the loop, kinda stupid. [Added
> a minute later: Otoh when I try to fix that it seems like I
> get a more complicated test condition at some point, so
> _maybe_ it's not so dumb - the fixes that are obvious
> to _me_ add O(number of iterations) to the running time.])
>
> But the following may help:
>
> You need to specify more clearly _exactly_ what you want to do.
> (You want the program to write the numbers to a file taking
> A, B, and the filename from parameters on the command line?
> You want to have the user click a button and then a dialog
> pops up where the user enters A, B and the filename? You
> want to have a few text boxes in a window where the user
> types A, B and the filename, then you save the numbers to a
> file when the user clicks a button? You want what, exactly?)
>
> You also need to specify more clearly how much experience you
> have with tkinter. (And with programming in general, for
> that matter.)
>
> The Python part is easy. You could do something like this:
>
> def FibsBetween(A,B):
>   '''Returns a Python list of the
> Fibonacci numbers between A and B,
> including A (possibly) but not B'''
>   x, y = 1L, 1L
>   fibs=[]
>   while x < B:
>      if x >= A: fibs.append(x)
>      x, y = y, x+y
>   return fibs
>
> def SaveListOfNumbersToFile(numbers, filename):
>   f=open(filename, 'w')
>   for number in numbers:
>     s=str(number)
>     if s[-1]=='L': s=s[:-1]
>     f.write(s +'\n')
>
> Now one way or another (this is the tkinter part,
> and also the part where you have not said exactly
> what you want to do and when you want to do it) you
> determine A, B and the filename. Then you say
>
> SaveListOfNumbersToFile(FibsBetween(A, B), filename)
>
> and you're set.
>

David,

Really, I am not completely even worried about the interface part, since
I can just save everything in a text file and then drop it into the
interpreter and enter in the required arguments from there...Mac's do
not have a command line, as does UNIX and DOS based machines, which is
unfortunate for Mac.

Anyway, exactly what I want to have happen is that I have the range of
number defined in the FindFibs(A,B) part, then I would simply like it to
return the values between those numbers stated, but _not_ to a screen,
instead writing them to a file.

That is basically all that I wish to do, in summary.  Give it the
numbers, have it write the response output to a file to view later.  The
main reason I want to do this is because when the output it gives me
comes on screen, if it is a large amount of digits, they tend to fill up
the buffer on the screen and I cannot scroll back to the beginning and
copy/paste them all because they are no longer there.

I hope that clarified it a little bit better.<g>  I do not have very
much experience in programming at all and am trying to get on the road
with Python. I have attempted to study C in the past and found it was
not worth the effort on my part and its complexitiy.

Thank you,
Eric


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From hvrosen at world-online.no  Fri Jan 26 03:18:51 2001
From: hvrosen at world-online.no (Henning VON ROSEN)
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 09:18:51 +0100
Subject: simple threads kill  my IDLE
References: <3A711877.4C5B51AF@mail.com>
Message-ID: <mpac6.1$yH6.175@news.world-online.no>

While playing around width threads executing either interactively or from
the editmode by "f5", in many cases IDLE froze and forced me to restart it.

Have anyone experienced such problems?

Is this a general problem of Tkinter? of IDLE? or probably just a newbie
miscoding?

The same things worked fine when executed outside IDLE, in  a DOS window.

from threading import *
class adi(Thread):
 def run(self):
  e = Event()
  cheno = "Hello"
  for litero in cheno:
      print litero,
      e.wait(.2)
a=adi()
a.start()
b=raw_input('go on')

It just prints out the letters one by one
it works in DOS-window but kills IDLE/Tkinter.
Not every time, though, nut it does produce the first letter of the string
"H", in a fashion that it ends up last in the printing.

Anyway I am new to threads, so maybe I did it the wrong way!

So what shall I do:
1) Avoid threads and IDLE in combination
2) Purchase PythonWorks
3) Just execute in DOS Windows (If there is a bug, these ugly windows dies
off, leaving me without feddback error messages! How do I solve that?)
4) Migrate to Linux

Most thankful for any hints

amike via Henning VON ROSEN





From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Mon Jan  8 17:30:26 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 23:30:26 +0100
Subject: Web devel with python. Whats the best route?
References: <mailman.978910629.6814.python-list@python.org> <93cqvi0191h@news1.newsguy.com> <mailman.978985688.26505.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <93dfft077p@news1.newsguy.com>

"Lele Gaifax" <lele at seldati.it> wrote in message
news:mailman.978985688.26505.python-list at python.org...
    [snip]
>     AM> CGI is easiest.  *Do the simplest thing that can possibly
>     AM> work*!
>
> PyApache does exactly this, only faster...
> ...but I'm a little biased here :)

Somebody just mentioned that PyApache was obsoleted by mod_apache (which
I thought did something completely different?), or, did I misread?

>     AM> "Session continuity" will have to be provided via cookies, but
>     AM> that's not really all that hard -- the amount of state you
    [snip]
> All mentioned modules do help in session handling, by providing some
> sort of persistent storage (tipically a dictionary).

So do the cookies in standard module Cookie, and the shelves in standard
module shelve -- dict-like interfaces are clearly very handy little things
(cgi.py
also offers basically that, albeit with some refinements/complications:-).


> PS: Alex, un ciao particolare! Ti ricordi di me? Sublink... :)

E vorrei vedere, che ci si potesse scordare della gloriosa sublink.org e
di tutti i suoi protagonisti...!-)  Ciao Lele!


Alex





From hamish_lawson at yahoo.co.uk  Sat Jan 20 20:22:40 2001
From: hamish_lawson at yahoo.co.uk (Hamish Lawson)
Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 01:22:40 GMT
Subject: Translating a Perl script into Python
References: <vo9i6t04nhurgv2avmgoss4mg86ofcuhtv@4ax.com> <94d4hk$1sq$1@animus.fel.iae.nl> <i47k6t4i2vu0tgr9kd9l5udnk8q72d8648@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <94ddks$ff9$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

Sheila King wrote:

> and then at the end you list in parenthese the later stuff, behind a
> % sign.

It's more general and more powerful than that. The % operator takes a
string on the left and a single value, tuple, list or dictionary on the
right and produces a string by substituting the % placeholders in the
left-hand operand with values from the right-hand operand. Note that %
inside a string doesn't have any special meaning in itself; it's the %
operator that treats it as placeholder. Thus

    a = "His name is %s and his age is %d"
    b = ['Bob', 42]
    print a % b

gives

    His name is Bob and his age is 42

> The %s in the string is taking the place for something that comes
> later

The % is a placeholder and the 's' indicates that it is to be formatted
as a string; other symbols are 'd' for decimal and 'f' for floating-
point number. Various other symbols can appear between the % and the
type symbol. Thus the following:

    print "%.2f" % 345.6788

formats the supplied value as a floating-point number with two digits
after the decimal point:

   345.68

If the left-hand side of the % operator is a list, then the values are
substituted for the placeholders sequentially. If a dictionary is being
used, then you can specifying the key to be associated with a given
placeholder by using the notaion "%(key)s". Here are some examples:

    # Using a tuple literal
    PROC.write("%s is %d\n" % ('Bob', 42))

    # Using a list variable
    data = ['Bob', 42]
    PROC.write("%s is %d\n" % data)

    # Using a dictionary literal
    data = {'name': 'Bob', 'age': 42}
    PROC.write("%(name)s is %(age)d\n" % {'name': 'Bob', 'age': 42})

    # Using a dictionary variable
    data = {'name': 'Bob', 'age': 42, 'title': 'Widget washer'}
    PROC.write("%(name)s is %(age)d\n" % data)

    # Using locals() to give a dictionary of local variables
    name = 'Bob'
    age = 42
    title = 'Widget washer'
    PROC.write("%(name)s is %(age)d\n" % locals())

The last one is closest to the Perl example.

Hamish Lawson


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From erno-news at erno.iki.fi  Sat Jan 20 14:47:55 2001
From: erno-news at erno.iki.fi (Erno Kuusela)
Date: 20 Jan 2001 21:47:55 +0200
Subject: Tabbing/Spaces & python-mode
References: <mailman.980018603.30482.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ku7l3qatuc.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>

In article <mailman.980018603.30482.python-list at python.org>, "Tim
Peters" <tim.one at home.com> writes:

| [Martin Sandin]
|| Me? A tab is 4 spaces, I hard tab indent my code. It's the easiest
|| and fastest way for moving my code tab levels.

| I assume you're using a supernaturally feeble editor, then.

hmm, at least with emacs python-mode & tabs, there is the slight
inconvenience that left arrow and right arrow only move one character
at a time, whereas with tabs they move the whole indentation step
at a time. i wonder if there's a way to remedy this ?

  -- erno


From jdries at mail.com  Thu Jan 25 17:22:33 2001
From: jdries at mail.com (Jan Dries)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 23:22:33 +0100
Subject: converting from html to pdf
References: <A69BC9CA4B39D411BF2200105A45B45B075B8CBC@dhexchange.discoveryhealth.co.za>
Message-ID: <3A70A729.D9F2AB6E@mail.com>

[Langa Kentane]
> I am looking for pointers on how I can covert an html file to pdf using
> python.  I am new to python.  A project like this can really help get 
> me started.

Take a look at http://www.reportlab.com. They offer extensive,
python-based open source tools for generating pdf. I don't think they
have something that takes any html-file and converts it to pdf, but when
it comes to pdf generation in Python, I know of nothing better.

Regards,
Jan



From kfiscus at tampabay.rr.com  Mon Jan 22 18:13:12 2001
From: kfiscus at tampabay.rr.com (Kevin Fiscus)
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 23:13:12 GMT
Subject: IP Octet Patern Match
Message-ID: <3A6CBDC4.C5F292C9@tampabay.rr.com>

I am extremely new to Python.  Can anyone help me to design a script
that will find the IP addresses from email headers and write the entire
line where they are found to another text file?



From dan.rolander at marriott.com  Wed Jan 17 08:14:50 2001
From: dan.rolander at marriott.com (Dan Rolander)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 08:14:50 -0500
Subject: python executables question [newbie]
References: <A69BC9CA4B39D411BF2200105A45B45B075B8C45@dhexchange.discoveryhealth.co.za>
Message-ID: <028701c08087$78f3d580$11260340@yin>

Yes. Check out http://www.mcmillan-inc.com/install1.html

Dan

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Langa Kentane" <LangaK at discoveryhealth.co.za>
To: "Python Mailing List (E-mail)" <python-list at python.org>
Cc: "Linux Admin Mailing List (E-mail)" <linux-admin at vger.kernel.org>
Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2001 2:33 AM
Subject: python executables question [newbie]


> Is it possible to create executables from python, I think I came accross
> something like that in one of the tutorials.  It just did not go into any
> detail.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> __________________________________________________________
> Langa Kentane | TEL: (011) 290 3218
> Security Administrator | Cell: 082 606 1515
> DISCOVERY HEALTH | http://www.discoveryhealth.co.za
> __________________________________________________________________
> 
> 
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 




From sandipan at vsnl.com  Mon Jan 29 14:28:21 2001
From: sandipan at vsnl.com (Sandipan Gangopadhyay)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 00:58:21 +0530
Subject: Fw: WhatamI doing wrong ? (re: About Content-Transfer-Encoding)
References: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0101231906570.11674-100000@fep132.fep.ru>
Message-ID: <004601c08a29$a4b6a7a0$020000c3@node02>

Just to place on the record:

I used StringIO to collate the entire body into a file-like object, seek(0)
to reset the file pointer, fed the result to base64.encode, and sent the
result to the MimeWriter body. This time it all worked fine.

Regards,

Sandipan

----- Original Message -----
From: "Oleg Broytmann" <phd at phd.pp.ru>
To: "Dhirja Gangopadhyay" <dhirja at vsnl.net>
Cc: <python-list at python.org>
Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2001 9:37 PM
Subject: Re: Fw: WhatamI doing wrong ? (re: About Content-Transfer-Encoding)


> On Tue, 23 Jan 2001, Dhirja Gangopadhyay wrote:
> > Could I be I going wrong because I am encoding string by string rather
than
> > the whole file at once ? (That does create a problem, though - how do I
>
>    Perhaps.
>
> > convert all the lists I write to the body into a file first !)
>
>    Use StringIO to collect data.
>
> Oleg.
> ----
>      Oleg Broytmann            http://phd.pp.ru/            phd at phd.pp.ru
>            Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN.
>
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>




From ahopkins at dynacare.com  Tue Jan 23 16:35:08 2001
From: ahopkins at dynacare.com (Albert Hopkins)
Date: 23 Jan 2001 15:35:08 -0600
Subject: Complete list of Python IDEs
References: <slrn96q24u.c2s.ahopkins@ahopkins.dynacare.com>
Message-ID: <slrn96rtnj.jf0.ahopkins@ahopkins.dynacare.com>

I was able to quickly compile a list at

http://starship.python.net/~marduk/pythonide.html




-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----


From dsh8290 at rit.edu  Thu Jan 11 18:49:15 2001
From: dsh8290 at rit.edu (D-Man)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 18:49:15 -0500
Subject: Python and Industry
In-Reply-To: <20010111172342.10148.00000934@ng-ca1.aol.com>; from crutoy@aol.com on Thu, Jan 11, 2001 at 10:23:42PM +0000
References: <20010111172342.10148.00000934@ng-ca1.aol.com>
Message-ID: <20010111184915.C19579@dman.rh.rit.edu>

I don't know how widely it is used in industry, but it is definitely
worth learning!  It's rather simple too (especially compared to other
langauges like C++).  At the very least you'll enjoy learning it and
using it for yourself.

-D

On Thu, Jan 11, 2001 at 10:23:42PM +0000, Crutoy wrote:
| Hi , does anyone know how widly in an instries does python being used ? I
| looked at the syntax of it and read some stuff on it,it's interested i just
| want to know if it's worth learning it. Thanks
| -- 
| http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list



From fredrik at effbot.org  Mon Jan  1 14:38:29 2001
From: fredrik at effbot.org (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Mon, 01 Jan 2001 19:38:29 GMT
Subject: Accessing variables created after import in imported files
References: <3A4FFBCB.76A7@loop.com> <t506vnkc2h6r72@corp.supernews.com> <3A503C07.6040@loop.com> <LR046.8$Rb.28538@typhoon.nyroc.rr.com> <3A50CFF3.1472@loop.com>
Message-ID: <V0546.2503$AH6.392321@newsc.telia.net>

Jesse W wrote:
> Thank you.  If I seperate the executing code from the definitions, it
> works.  But what is a mutual dependency, and why should that cause a
> class to not appear when it is first imported?

Python *executes* module code to fill in the module name-
space.  if you do recursive imports, you may end up trying
to access objects that hasn't been created yet.

for more info, see the section "What Does Python Do to
Import a Module" in

    http://effbot.org/guides/import-confusion.htm

</F>




From andreas at andreas-jung.com  Wed Jan 10 15:19:56 2001
From: andreas at andreas-jung.com (Andreas Jung)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 21:19:56 +0100
Subject: compiling .cgi files
In-Reply-To: <93iah4+emk6@eGroups.com>; from carlhiga@yahoo.com on Wed, Jan 10, 2001 at 06:43:48PM -0000
References: <93iah4+emk6@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <20010110211956.B6074@yetix.sz-sb.de>

On Wed, Jan 10, 2001 at 06:43:48PM -0000, carlhiga at yahoo.com wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> I'm running some python cgi scripts that need to have the '.cgi' 
> extension in their filename.
> 
> Is there anyway to get them to be byte code compiled? I understand 
> that if they were '.py' files I could simply import them using the 
> interpreter and it would produce the '.pyc' files. But I don't know 
> how to do this with '.cgi' files.

.pyc files are created when you import a module inside a Python module/program.
In general  you should not use the .cgi extension for Python modules but .py .
Assuming your webserver needs the .cgi extension for scripts to be used
as CGI script you might write a small shell wrapper around your Python
program.

Andreas



From dalke at acm.org  Wed Jan 10 13:36:31 2001
From: dalke at acm.org (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 11:36:31 -0700
Subject: Problem with __del__ (thanks)
References: <3A5B6434.2BD6FEF6@mail.dvz.fh-koeln.de> <1OJ66.4624$AH6.762498@newsc.telia.net> <3A5C4CBA.4154AFCA@mail.dvz.fh-koeln.de>
Message-ID: <93ia1n$c7a$1@slb0.atl.mindspring.net>

Stephan Effelsberg wrote:
>I want to (have to!)
>reinitialize the hardware if the program exits in an unusual way (e.g.
>keyboard interrupt), and I thought using the destructor
> of the controlling
>class to do this job would be the proper way.

Put your top level code inside of a try/except block:

if __name__ == "__main__":
  try:
    main()
  except:
    # something unexpected happened so reinit the hardware
    reinitialize()
    raise

The call to reinitialize() will be done before Python does
its cleanup so there will be no problems because of that.

                    Andrew
                    dalke at acm.org





From m.faassen at vet.uu.nl  Sun Jan  7 08:12:42 2001
From: m.faassen at vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen)
Date: 7 Jan 2001 13:12:42 GMT
Subject: Should I learn Python or Java?
References: <HEO56.5504$y9.2881293@typhoon.we.rr.com> <9393jk$fku$1@plonk.apk.net>
Message-ID: <939q0a$d8s$1@newshost.accu.uu.nl>

Joseph T. Adams <joe at apk.net> wrote:
[snip]
> Smalltalk is far more similar to Java than to Python, so this may make
> Java feel a little more familiar for you.

This I don't believe is true; Smalltalk is far more similar to *Python*
than to Java. Syntaxwise, Smalltalk is as different from Java as it
is from Python, and the semantics of dynamic typechecking is far
more like Python than like than like statically-typed Java.
The one aspect where Java and Smalltalk are more similar is that both
have the tendency to isolate themselves into Java-only and Smalltalk-only
environments, instead of focusing on interoperability. Oh, and another
similarity between Java and Smalltalk is a focus on OO everywhere,
where Python is more paradigm agnostic -- but the way they
try to accomplish it is quite different; Java basic types are not
really objects as far as I know, for instance, whereas Python's are
(with some restrictions).

So why do you say Smalltalk is far more similar to Java than to Python?

Regards,

Martijn
-- 
History of the 20th Century: WW1, WW2, WW3?
No, WWW -- Could we be going in the right direction?


From michael at stroeder.com  Mon Jan 22 01:02:20 2001
From: michael at stroeder.com (Michael =?iso-8859-1?Q?Str=F6der?=)
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 07:02:20 +0100
Subject: Modifying .htpasswd from Python?
References: <90312091gustaflalgonetse@194.213.69.148>
Message-ID: <3A6BCCEC.EA8CE857@stroeder.com>

Gustaf Liljegren wrote:
> 
> This can be done easily in Perl, using the crypt() function. Now I need a
> Python function doing exactly the same encryption as the htpasswd command.

See module crypt.

Ciao, Michael.


From quinn at groat.ugcs.caltech.edu  Sat Jan 20 05:10:11 2001
From: quinn at groat.ugcs.caltech.edu (Quinn Dunkan)
Date: 20 Jan 2001 10:10:11 GMT
Subject: PSU uses emacs?
References: <948e4b$hm0$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <948fvj$oq1$1@panix6.panix.com> <3A67CDC3.7EACB07D@Lugoj.Com> <9490t009on@news2.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <slrn96ip03.oul.quinn@groat.ugcs.caltech.edu>

On Fri, 19 Jan 2001 10:10:12 +0100, Alex Martelli <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote:
>"James Logajan" <JamesL at Lugoj.Com> wrote in message
>news:3A67CDC3.7EACB07D at Lugoj.Com...
>> Aahz Maruch wrote:
>> > vi
>>
>> Viva vi!
>
>vi here too (gvim, actually -- Python-programmable and all:-).

And acme and wily---everything-including-python-programmable :)


From dsh8290 at rit.edu  Wed Jan 24 18:28:27 2001
From: dsh8290 at rit.edu (D-Man)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 18:28:27 -0500
Subject: How do I know all thrown exceptions of a function?
In-Reply-To: <slrn96tref.gb.scarblac@pino.selwerd.nl>; from scarblac@pino.selwerd.nl on Wed, Jan 24, 2001 at 03:04:58PM +0000
References: <g3lb49.73s.ln@127.0.0.1> <94d93h$55d$1@troll.powertech.no> <mailman.980059223.25947.python-list@python.org> <slrn96rk66.ugd.scarblac@pino.selwerd.nl> <mailman.980287769.21816.python-list@python.org> <slrn96tref.gb.scarblac@pino.selwerd.nl>
Message-ID: <20010124182827.C26798@harmony.cs.rit.edu>

On Wed, Jan 24, 2001 at 03:04:58PM +0000, Remco Gerlich wrote:
| Paul Foley mailed me his comments, I'm assuming he meant to post to the
| group. I'll paste in some of them, since he disagreed interestingly :-)
| (his quotes marked with |)
| 
| I've left D-Man's comments in although I comment mainly on Paul's, but
| whatever :)
| 
| D-Man <dsh8290 at rit.edu> wrote in comp.lang.python:
| > On Tue, Jan 23, 2001 at 06:48:45PM +0000, Remco Gerlich wrote:
|  > | - All the exceptions your code explicitly throws should inherit
| > |   some base exception defined in your module, so that that can
| > |   be tested for.
| > 
| > I agree with this.  It makes handling all exceptions of a certain
| > classification easy.
| 
| (Paul)
| | No.  If your code gets, say, a bad value, it should raise ValueError,
| | not some new version of ValueError defined only in that module.
| 
| Ah, of course. If there's an obvious builtin exception for exactly this
| problem, use that. That should cover many cases.

Yes, if it is obvious that a builtin exception is more
suitable/natural use it.  Though maybe it is good to do something
like:

class MyValueError( ValueError , MyModuleExceptionRoot ) :
	pass

It is-a ValueError and it is-a exception from my module.  This allows
both types of except clauses to be used.  IMO you should do whatever
is clearest and provides the best handling in the given situation.
If, for example, you are creating your own MagicSequence class, then
it makes sense to simply use the builtin sequence exceptions.

| 
| My point is though, say you have some markup language parser that is looking
| for an end tag. Your string.index() call fails with a ValueError (end marker
| not found). Now it would be best to catch that and raise some sort of
| mymarkupparser.MissingEndTag exception, not to simply pass on the unhelpful
| ValueError that might change once you switch to regular expressions.
| 
| (Paul)
| | It's often useful to define a bunch of new exceptions for your module,
| | but probably equally often, you want the built-in exceptions [or,
| | occasionally, exceptions defined in third-party modules you imported.
| | E.g., a module that defines some new kind of network socket might want
| | to raise socket.error...though this is a bad example; socket.error is
| | rather under-specific...]
| 
| I don't like using exceptions from completely different modules you happen
| to use. That is where it becomes hard to find out for the user what
| exceptions your code might raise, and now they need to import that module to
| use its exceptions, and read its documentation, when the whole points is
| that they reach it through your module so they don't have to know about it.
| 

These ought to be "renamed" to an exception in your module.
This provides for a more consistent interface for your module and
eliminates the client's need for knowledge of your dependent modules.

| > | - Avoid throwing exceptions that have to do with your implementation
| > |   to the outside world. If your module function gets an argument that
| > |   is out of range, resulting in an IndexError, don't just pass that on
| > |   to the caller but catch it and raise a custom exception yourself,
| > |   that inherits from your module's standard exception. Hide your
| > |   implementation.
| > 
| > I agree with this as well.  I did this when modifying a library to
| > actually throw exceptions :-).  It had try{ ... } catch( Exception e ) {
| > return false ; } in it.  (Java lib someone else copied from a C lib).
| > It made the errors much more useful.
|  
| (Paul)
| | Au contraire; pass on that IndexError if it makes sense to do so
| | (i.e., if you can't handle it inside your code, and its not some
| | implementation detail that could go away with a different
| | implementation (unlikely, for IndexError)). 
| 
| But if it's caused by a bad input value, it should raise ValueError - so you
| catch it and raise the other exception. Otherwise you have to remember for
| each library function what the exception is that it throws when you give it
| wrong input (and there might be several possibilities).
| 
| (Paul)
| | Catching it only to raise
| | some custom exception is conceptually horrible, as well as being
| | generally impossible (think higher-level functions, or callbacks.  You
| | don't know what the user wants to do when exceptions happen in his own
| | code that's being called by yours, and if you alter his exceptions,
| | you'll break his handlers!  Utterly evil!)
| 

In the case of the library I tweaked to have better error reporting I
caught the thrown exceptions so that I could raise my own.  The lib's
purpose was to receive a string input and validate it.  There are
several ways it could be invalid, and I created simple exception types
that encapsulated these ideas.  When the lib threw all sorts of
errors (after my modifications), I translated it into an appropriate
exception from my module.  (For example, sometimes I would get an
IOException,  this isn't what I wanted to tell the client so I caught
it and threw InvalidData exception instead)  All the exceptions in my
module inhertied from a single exception type so that the client could
be general or specific depending on the needs.  Although, more
specifically, except in some cases, I had the lib throw my exception
type in the first place.

| Ok, functions you know nothing about that are passed in as an argument,
| those are an exception. If you know nothing about what it does, you
| shouldn't change it either...
| 
| (Paul)
| | Perhaps the best advice is "know what you're doing, and write code
| | that behaves sensibly", rather than trying to enforce some overly
| | strict rules.
| 
| Of course. But discussing what good rules of thumb would be makes it a
| lot easier to behave sensibly later :-).

Good points were made from both sides.  It is good to have some rules
of thumb to start with, but don't take it beyond realistic bounds.

In all cases, do what is sensible (as Paul said).

| 
| -- 
| Remco Gerlich
| -- 

-D




From sandipan at vsnl.com  Tue Jan 16 14:22:41 2001
From: sandipan at vsnl.com (Sandipan Gangopadhyay)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 00:52:41 +0530
Subject: My first script (so go easy on me!)
Message-ID: <00d401c07ff1$b2a9eb20$020000c3@node02>

I have this strange feeling that the original post asked if

>>> print "some kind of command string"

executes the command string or does it require an explicit line-feed to get
the system to execute it ?

Is it possible that I am right ?

In that case, what is required is the os.system("command string")

Regards,

Sandipan

----- Original Message -----
From: "Erik Max Francis" <max at alcyone.com>
Newsgroups: comp.lang.python
To: <python-list at python.org>
Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2001 11:10 PM
Subject: Re: My first script (so go easy on me!)


> Robert L Hicks wrote:
>
> > Is this ok?
>
> It works, though I'd do a safer comparison with actual strings, like:
>
>     if answer == 'yes':
>         print r
>     elif answer == 'no':
>         print w
>     else:
>         print n
>
> Note what happens in your program if you answer `nope' instead of `no'.
> You could also just key off the first character:
>
>     if answer[0] == 'y':
>         print r
>     elif answer[0] == 'n':
>         print w
>     ...
>
> You also don't particularly gain anything in this tiny example by saving
> the strings you want to print off into variables that you use later,
> although in what you're planning to do, it might make sense eventually;
> it's certainly not wrong.
>
> > My question is when the print statement is run do I need
> > to do a
> > linefeed so the terminal accepts what was printed? Or does the fact
> > that
> > python send the print to the terminal cause the terminal to execute
> > it?
>
> An unadorned print statement implicitly has a newline stuck to the end
> of it, and comma-separated items are printed with intervening spaces.
> So you can write things like:
>
>     i = 10
>     print "The number of items left is", i
>
> To suppress the trailing newline, end with a comma (but it will end with
> a trailing space):
>
>     print "Do you want to quit?",
>
> --
>  Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
>  __ San Jose, CA, US / 37 20 N 121 53 W / ICQ16063900 / &tSftDotIotE
> /  \ I am the king of sorrow
> \__/ Sade
>     Official Buh rules / http://www.alcyone.com/max/projects/cards/buh/
>  The official rules to the betting card game, Buh.
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


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From s2mdalle at titan.vcu.edu  Fri Jan 26 18:46:35 2001
From: s2mdalle at titan.vcu.edu (David Allen)
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 23:46:35 GMT
Subject: Threading woes
Message-ID: <v%nc6.3118$xn.831173@typhoon2.ba-dsg.net>

Short summary: I'm writing a gopher client that works
in a way similar to a web browser, but far less complicated.
It uses Tkinter and Pmw.  Source in CVS if you want
to check out what I'm talking about (plus the program
is actually usable)
export CVSROOT=:pserver:anonymous at pi.complete.org:/var/cvs
cvs co clients/forg

Now my question.  I'm trying to implement a STOP button.
When the user clicks it, the program should stop what
it's doing *IMMEDIATELY* and go idle.  Currently
I've got STOP implemented, but it's horribly broken,
and only somewhat works half of the time.  :)

My first solution:  make the program threaded, and
have a "download thread" and a main thread.  The
main thread will do Tkinter type mainloop stuff,
and the download thread will, when the user requests,
go fetch stuff from the network.  This way the GUI
doesn't hang when downloading large things.

The way stop works this way is that each time it
steps through the read loop on the socket, it checks
a value which the main thread may have set to None.
If it's None, then it stops and returns immediately.
The problem with this is that it doesn't help for
calls which may block for a while, like gethostbyname
or even recv when you're recv'ing a large buffer.

In my recent other post, "Thread interruption", we
established that you can't throw exceptions in other
threads or signal yourself, so I'm pretty much at
a dead end with the threading solution with regard
to the STOP functionality.

So why not fork() processes, and then have them 
communicate via sockets or something?  For interruption,
I can just signal the download thread with SIGINT!
This would work, but fork is UNIX only, and I need portability
to at least windows.  Macs aren't that important
right now.  I'm developing on linux by default.

I know there's some technique I'm missing, or an
approach that I just don't know about.  I just need
a solution that meets 2 criteria:

- It allows my Tkinter GUI to not be hung, it processes
events as normal so if the user decides to grab a
40 terabyte file, the app doesn't hang.

- It is interruptable at any moment.  (i.e. if 
networking is down, and I call gethostbyname or recv, the
user doesn't have to wait for gethostbyname to fail
miserably before actually stopping)

What options do I have that haven't been discussed
yet?  It seems like a very simple problem, but I'm
lacking the right approach to solve this.

-- 
David Allen
http://opop.nols.com/


From noahspurrier at my-deja.com  Wed Jan 10 14:44:21 2001
From: noahspurrier at my-deja.com (noahspurrier at my-deja.com)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 19:44:21 GMT
Subject: How to check on process time?
Message-ID: <93ie2i$bse$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

Which Python library do I want to get extensive process information?
I need to look at any process running -- not just the parent, current,
or child processes.

I want to write a watchdog script that sends out alerts if any
process on the system with a given name patter runs longer than
a certain amount of real time or CPU time.

Currently I'm just doing a popen('ps -ef'), but I'd like
to get more sophisticated.

If anyone has any samples, then I'd love to see them.

Yours,
Noah Spurrier

P.S. Yes, I RTFM, but I couldn't find what I needed. I'm sure it's
in there.


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Tue Jan  2 16:16:42 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2001 22:16:42 +0100
Subject: 2001 Enchancement Wishlist
References: <3A4CEACB.220998A0@javanet.com> <Ro736.2511$Qb7.273102@newsb.telia.net> <92j83r13gh@news1.newsguy.com> <20001231175940.A5435@xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <008301c07501$c036ae40$43931497@martelli>

"Thomas Wouters" <thomas at xs4all.net> writes:

> > > already has a framework for creating exactly one instance of
> > > something: the module namespace).
> > 
> > Pity that isn't as flexible as an object-instance -- can't define
> > special methods to determine how it will print, how it will
> > let usercode loop on its items, etc.
> 
> Of course it can.

The module can define a class-instance object (which can in turn
do these nice things), but it can't do them itself -- as you know
perfectly well, so it's peculiar that you would say otherwise.


> <spammodule.py>
> class _singleton:
> <whatever you want>
> 
> SingleTon = _singleton()
> 
> All that is required is for everyone to use spammodule.SingleTon.

So, if somebody complains that a Python lambda cannot contain
a for loop, will you answer "of course it can" in that it can (e.g.)
call a function which, in turn, IS able to contain such loops?

I find this unfunny and unconstructive.  Limitations of Python
modules in terms of special-methods are quite real, and
slightly annoying, and trying to "define them away as
limitations" via such attempted (and not particularly subtle)
verbal sleight of hand leads nowhere interesting.


Alex



_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com




From gerhard.nospam at bigfoot.de  Sat Jan 13 04:33:42 2001
From: gerhard.nospam at bigfoot.de (Gerhard =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 10:33:42 +0100
Subject: brace nanny
References: <93nsfk02gdu@drn.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <slrn9608q1.tr.gerhard.nospam@lilith.hqd-internal.de>

For getting a consisent indenting style, there are several tools. GNU indent
is one of them. I guess if you search freshmeat.net for indent, you will
find lots of them.

Gerhard

On 12 Jan 2001 13:20:52 -0800, Grant Griffin <not.this at seebelow.org> wrote:
>Hi Gang,
>
>Does anybody know of a free/open "brace nanny" for C/C++, preferably written in
>Python?  (By "brace nanny", of course, I mean a gizmo that finds inconsistencies
>between the indentation level and the braces.  I've had to change bracing style
>lately, so I need a little help with that.)
>
>braces-are-nothing-but-trouble-<wink>-ly y'rs,
-- 
mail:   gerhard <at> bigfoot <dot> de
web:    http://highqualdev.com


From bobhicks at adelphia.net  Tue Jan 16 10:50:17 2001
From: bobhicks at adelphia.net (Robert L Hicks)
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 15:50:17 GMT
Subject: My first script (so go easy on me!)
Message-ID: <B689D7B0.8ABF%bobhicks@adelphia.net>

#!/usr/bin/python

##
# This is a small script to cause the inetd daemon to re-read itself
##

r = "kill -HUP `ps cax|grep inetd|awk '{print $1}'`"  # restarts the daemon
n = "Inetd not restarted"
w = "Answer needs to be 'yes' or 'no'. Try again!"

answer = " "
 
query = raw_input("Do you want to restart the INETD daemon? (yes/no): ")

answer = query

if len(answer) > 2:
    print r
elif len(answer) < 2:
    print w
else:
    print n


Is this ok? My question is when the print statement is run do I need to do a
linefeed so the terminal accepts what was printed? Or does the fact that
python send the print to the terminal cause the terminal to execute it?

How would you clean this up?

Bob



From peter at engcorp.com  Wed Jan 24 00:23:58 2001
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 00:23:58 -0500
Subject: Python for embedded systems (was Re: What does Python do)
References: <94gmeu$4fc$1@sooner.brightok.net> <t1Sa6.4569$Yv.544288@juliett.dax.net> <94gvv5$7mo$1@sooner.brightok.net> <LPUa6.4598$Yv.546853@juliett.dax.net> <2F4DC6312B7FE9DA.74AB95EBEF3C09D4.1D6BDBE5660A1914@lp.airnews.net> <eqZa6.1433$eI2.490960@ruti.visi.com> <3A6D1E04.AABCC7DE@engcorp.com> <riib6.1969$eI2.601187@ruti.visi.com>
Message-ID: <3A6E66EE.38FEB4F0@engcorp.com>

Grant Edwards wrote:
> 
> In article <3A6D1E04.AABCC7DE at engcorp.com>, Peter Hansen wrote:
> >Actually, Python can be suitable for real-time embedded
> >software, as well.
> 
> I suppose it depends on the system resources and requirements.
> The vast majority of embedded systems don't have the resources
> required to run Python -- even the deeply embedded version
> without the compiler.

Quite true.  That's why I said "can" be suitable, not "is".

We have Python running on a 1MB Flash/1MB RAM PC/104 module.
With the compiler.  Quite cool.  I know from posts here that
at least one other company has achieved something similar.
I'm still pleased to find how well many of Python's advantages
translate through into the embedded world.  This is, of course,
an extremely long way from a 16-bit chip with a 64K address
space, but for that there's always FORTH. :-)

> >(I suppose I could even stretch things a little and say it's
> >potentially suitable for device drivers, but not in the way
> >most people would define them.)
> 
> You can't write a device driver in Python for any of the common
> desktop or server OSes: Linux, BSD, Solaris, MacOS, Win*, etc.
> It's entirely possible to design an OS such that kernel/driver
> code can be in Python, but I'm not aware of such a thing.

Well, I obviously wasn't referring to mainstream systems.  I
was thinking of specialized embedded systems such as ours, where
in effect the "device driver" in Python rides on top of an 
extremely thin layer of C code (my brain still calls these
"native methods", from Java).  The C code is too thin to be
called a driver, but of course the Python code is *not* able
to interface directly to the hardware, which is usually part
of the definition of device driver.  (I use the term "driver"
more as a package of lower-level functionality, not 
necessarily as a trivial interface to some hardware.)

> >Python is actually *more* suitable for real-time work, in
> >certain circumstances, than Java.
> 
> A lot of real-time system designers cringe at _any_ use of
> dynamic memory allocation (other than a frame stack).  Dynamic
> _anything_ is the bane of an embedded system.  Although Java
> was supposed to be useful for embedded systems, it's been a
> tough sell.

Dynamic memory allocation is not inherently contrary to the 
requirements of real-time, although many people still think
"speed" instead of "deterministic" when the word real-time
comes into the conversation.  I think with a little care,
and a generous upper limit for what you consider "soon enough",
dynamic memory allocation can meet real-time requirements
in certain cases.  But I was thinking more of the garbage 
collection in Java being a problem, while reference
counting makes deallocation much more predictable in Python.

> >... On the other hand the
> >threading model could mess things up for you, but if you focus
> >on a specific platform, even that is not necessarily a problem.
> 
> The current threading implementation is inappropriate for
> real-time work, but I don't know why one couldn't implement
> prioritized preemptive threading for Python.

I think the global interpreter lock would be the thing 
that would get in the way there.  I'm not sure to what 
extent this is true, but I believe a lower priority thread
can block a higher priority thread for a possibly 
very large time.  It's possibly still deterministic, and
therefore still "real-time", but not necessarily high
performance.  I wouldn't bet my life on it yet, since I
still need to study the core more.


From shredwheat at mediaone.net  Sat Jan 20 14:14:42 2001
From: shredwheat at mediaone.net (Pete Shinners)
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 19:14:42 GMT
Subject: Translating a Perl script into Python
References: <vo9i6t04nhurgv2avmgoss4mg86ofcuhtv@4ax.com> <94c2as0nei@news2.newsguy.com> <heej6tcb6cukmqkcc319lasc6qiu4hqcv7@4ax.com> <1tej6tgp30shi14sgr7908f3l8vd5qkp59@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <Csla6.76784$y9.14928537@typhoon.we.rr.com>

"Sheila King" <sheila at thinkspot.net> wrote
> OK, so I decided to try this out on my host.
> Running their install of Python (1.5.1):
>
> Python 1.5.1 (#1, Sep  3 1998, 22:51:17)  [GCC 2.7.2.3] on linux-i386
> Copyright 1991-1995 Stichting Mathematisch Centrum, Amsterdam
> >>> qmail="SENDER RECIPIENT EXT HOST".split()
> Traceback (innermost last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
> AttributeError: 'string' object has no attribute 'split'
> >>>


adding the string operations as members of string objects happened
after python 1.5.2. going with python1.5 you need to import the
string module and use the split function from that.

>>> import string
>>> qmail = string.split('SENDER RECIPIENT EXT HOST')






From tim.one at home.com  Mon Jan 29 23:56:10 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 23:56:10 -0500
Subject: Thread Safety
In-Reply-To: <980790776.835347129@news.silcom.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCGECJIMAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Clarence Gardner]
> ...
> For some reason, I thought that the tuple-ness of the construct I
> used would make a difference [to thread-safety].  Why?  Beats me :)

I'll hazard a guess:  the rule of thumb in Python is "if it *looks* atomic,
it is".  "(x, y)" looks pretty atomic to me too; unfortunately (for the rule
of thumb, anyway), it's not.

> ...
> Along those lines, I'm going to repeat a question that I posted about a
> week ago that passed without comment on the newsgroup.

That should tell you that nobody who knows something useful about it is
reading c.l.py exhaustively, yes?  Open a bug report, else you may never get
an answer.

> The issue is the SSL support in the socket module, which raises an
> exception when the reading socket is at EOF, rather than returning an
> empty string.

No answer from me:  don't know anything about it.  Sounds reasonable,
though.  In this case I tried to open an SF bug for you, but SF bug
submission appears busted at the moment.  Dumped it into spam email instead.




From quinn at regurgitate.ugcs.caltech.edu  Wed Jan 31 17:21:45 2001
From: quinn at regurgitate.ugcs.caltech.edu (Quinn Dunkan)
Date: 31 Jan 2001 22:21:45 GMT
Subject: how to store great array?
References: <953sps$nta$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <slrn97bjo6.8va.quinn@bolivar.ugcs.caltech.edu> <mailman.980846556.5007.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrn97h3vo.qes.quinn@regurgitate.ugcs.caltech.edu>

On Tue, 30 Jan 2001 10:21:05 +0100, Thomas Wouters <thomas at xs4all.net> wrote:
>On Mon, Jan 29, 2001 at 08:13:58PM +0000, Quinn Dunkan wrote:
>
>> But python's lists are arrays.  Don't ask me why this confusing
>> terminology was chosen, probably because some Dutch people doing usability
>> tests thought 'list' sounded nicer for ABC a million years ago.
>
>I'm not sure where list comes from, but I'm sure glad they're called lists
>and not arrays! To C programmers, arrays mean 'lists of a single type'. To
>people who never heard of arrays (like newbie programmers), arrays mean
>'wtf?'.

That's true... the term 'list' is more likely to immediately be obvious to
someone completely new to programming.  Of course, 'array' should also be
intuitive for anyone who knows english resonably well (arrays of satellites,
bottles arrayed in a display case, etc.).  Whether or not that is a good thing
is debatable since computer list/arrays are different in many ways from
real-world list/arrays.  But I conceed that newbies might prefer 'list'.

But for anyone who knows any other language, or a newbie who then goes on to
learn another language, it causes confusion.  Or when talking with someone who
is familiar with another language (I had this problem before I knew python: I
talked with a pythoneer about 'lists' and we both were confused when thought
in cons cells and recursion and he thought in subscipting and iteration (and
we both, naturally, knew the other's approach was "wrong").

>        Only to people who judge a datatype by name instead of documentation
>*and* are used to a programming language where a list is defined as a linked
>list, might 'list' seem 'wrong'.

I don't know LambdaMOO, but in every single language I do know, a list is a
series of cons cells and an array is a glob of contiguous memory with O(1)
access.  It's true that languages use different words to mean different
things, and any attempt to come up with a "correct" defn for a term is likely
to be doomed.  But in a situation where there is a widely held convention, you
should only break it if the benefits outweigh the cost.  For example, if you
have a function that applies a function to a sequence and returns the
resulting sequence should probably be called 'map', or possibly 'collect' if
you come from smalltalk world.  Deciding 'transform' is a better name and
calling it that is probably not worth it unless you have a pretty solid
reason.  I don't think a small difference in newbie-friendly vocabulary is
good enough reason for a fundamental data structure.

Anyway, you know what a python list means, and I know what list means, and
everyone on this group knows what list means, and changing that now would be
even worse (it's worse to violate your own convention than someone elses), so
my whole arguement is irrelevant anyway :)  (as Tim would say, arguing about
imaginary newbies).

But when someone new to python is confused about whether x[2] is as fast as
x[5000], I think that perhaps the terminology has confused them.  And whenever
I want to describe the characteristics of lists vs. arrays to someone who only
really knows python, I have to be extra careful they don't get confused.

>> Dict access is also constant, as is usual for a hash table (internally, it
>> gets turned into simple array access).  But if your indices will be inteeger,
>> then a plain array aka list will have less overhead.
>
>Only if you have (near) sequential keys. If you have large gaps in your keys
>(say 60% or more 'unused' keys, but a dict expert like Tim can probably
>correct me :), you're better off with a dictionary -- you won't have to
>allocate quite as much room for it.

Yah, yah I made an assumption :)

>> Python experts could tell you the exact memory usage.  It will be something
>> like bytes_in_string+null + pointer + type_field + maybe_a_cached_hash +
>> interned_flag.  So with ~4 bytes overhead for each 5 byte string, you're
>> looking at 9*2_000_000 / 1024 / 1024 = 17MB for 2 million elements.
>
>Actually, a string object is defined like this (from Include/stringobject.h):

Argh, and I assumed a pointer is one byte :)  You see why I stick to garbage
collected languages :)


From bazsi at balabit.hu  Mon Jan 15 09:10:03 2001
From: bazsi at balabit.hu (Balazs Scheidler)
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 15:10:03 +0100
Subject: bug?: exception and references
Message-ID: <20010115151003.A18001@balabit.hu>

Hi,

I have a problem with exceptions incrementing the reference counter of an
instance whose method is raising the exception. To illustrate the problem
here's an example completely written in Python:

We have two methods in RaiseTest, func1 raising an exception on error, and
func2 returning a -1 value. If an instance of this class is created, and the
function func1 is called, freeing up the instance is delayed. If func2 is
called everything works normally.

class RaiseTest:

	def __del__(self):
		print "__del__ called"

	def func1(self):
		raise NotImplementedError
		
	def func2(self):
		return -1

	

def test1():
	print "test1"
	
	r = RaiseTest()
	try:
		r.func1()
	except NotImplementedError:
		pass
	del r
	print "r deleted1"

def test2():
	print "test2"
	
	r = RaiseTest()
	r.func2()
	del r
	print "r deleted2"

test1()
test2()


Results of the script:

balabit:~/src$ python proba.py
test1
r deleted1
__del__ called
test2
__del__ called
r deleted2

The order of messages is important. In test1, the instance is deleted using
"del", but is not freed until the current frame exits (this time test1), in
test2, the instance is correctly freed when "del" is called.

Something thus holds a reference to the instance, even if it's deleted from
the local namespace of test1(), my question is what it might be? 

I'm using Python as an extension language, and I call the method using
PyObject_CallObject(), if an exception is raised in the function, nothing
frees up the object instance (because of the extra reference).

Any help is welcome.

PS: please CC me as I'm not on the list.

-- 
Bazsi
PGP info: KeyID 9AF8D0A9 Fingerprint CD27 CFB0 802C 0944 9CFD 804E C82C 8EB1
     url: http://www.balabit.hu/pgpkey.txt



From farmerk at pacbell.net  Mon Jan  8 02:01:03 2001
From: farmerk at pacbell.net (Keith Farmer)
Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2001 23:01:03 -0800
Subject: Python, ADO, VC++ 6
References: <R%966.323$l71.150865@news.pacbell.net> <93bcbj$lfl$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <NAd66.376$l71.224060@news.pacbell.net>

Executed the debug immediately after the crash, and VC++ says "Unhandled
exception in Pythonwin.exe (PYWINTYPES20.DLL): 0xC0000005: Access
Violation."

I'm not familiar enough with VC++ to know what else I have available (or,
for that matter, to make use of it .. the code it gives is disassembly with
a breakpoint at 1e60587c, and I don't know ML).  If you want, I could send
you the .opt file.




From trotts at mit.edu  Sun Jan 28 17:42:35 2001
From: trotts at mit.edu (Issac Trotts)
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 14:42:35 -0800
Subject: Clifford Algebra / Geometric Algebra module (was Re: Hack request: rational numbers)
In-Reply-To: <20010128142844.C711@llnl.gov>; from trotts@mit.edu on Sun, Jan 28, 2001 at 02:28:44PM -0800
References: <951h34$tch$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, <Pine.LNX.4.21.0101251759070.28148-100000@kev.ioc.ee> <mailman.980702855.389.python-list@python.org> <2W%c6.128157$ge4.46108705@news2.rdc2.tx.home.com> <3A749696.2BD57BA9@alcyone.com> <20010128142844.C711@llnl.gov>
Message-ID: <20010128144235.A773@llnl.gov>

I found it:

http://deja.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=662575210

The GA python module is included in the web page.

Issac

> > (There is a geometric algebra module for Python, by the way.)
> 
> I've been looking for something like this.  Do you know the URL?
> 
> Issac
> 
> 
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list



From robin.escalation at ACM.org  Sat Jan 20 23:09:11 2001
From: robin.escalation at ACM.org (robin.escalation at ACM.org)
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 23:09:11 -0500
Subject: [ANN] Wasp: yet another HTML preprocessor and CGI framework
Message-ID: <q1ok6to9f9qih87vlhm04eaf231677m3kg@4ax.com>

Wasp is an platform-independent open-source HTML preprocessor and CGI
framework written in Python. 

The designer creates template files using a mix of HTML and simple tag
extensions. The programmer creates Python modules to access databases,
manage files, perform calculations, or any other desired task. Then,
Wasp converts these templates and code snippets to standard HTML
files. By maintaining a library of standard components, you can easily
assemble complete sites from discrete parts. This eliminates
repetitive markup coding, helps maintain stylistic conformity
throughout your site, and correctly partitions the design and
programming tasks of building a web application.

Wasp may be run in two ways. In static mode, templates are processed
in a batch to produce HTML files. This is useful for people without
access to CGI, or who wish to serve static files for performance
reasons. In dynamic mode, templates are processed on-the-fly (mmm...
flies) through CGI, for maximum flexibility. Wasp provides a CGI
application framework, complete with error handling, logging, e-mail
notification, and post-mortem debugging.

Examples of the included snippets are SourceDoc() which automatically
produces pretty HTML documentation from the doc strings embedded in
your source code and GanttChart() which creates a nice HTML Gantt
chart from a tab-delimited data file. 

The powerful tag extensions include SEQ which produces standard
pre/next/up/home navigation bars and INDEX which reads meta tags to
automatically create an index page for a site. Of course there is
support for macros, include files, conditional code generation, and
execution of arbitrary Python code.

Full documentaion and examples are included.

Wasp is available at:
http://www.execulink.com/~robin/wasp/readme.html

It also has a page at the Vaults of Parnassus:
http://www.vex.net/parnassus/

There are many other tools which attempt to do at least part of what
Wasp does. Most suffer from incompleteness, inflexibility, lack of
documentation, or some other drawback. But you be the judge. Check out
Cameron Laird's page which summarises the available templating and CGI
tools:
http://starbase.neosoft.com/~claird/comp.lang.python/web_python.html

Wasp is open-source under the GNU General Public License.

You may contact me, Robin Parmar, at robin.escalation at ACM.org. 

Please send code fixes and suggestions. I'm particularly interested in
any new Python snippets you may develop. 

-----
robin                                  robin.escalation at ACM.org
media artist / information architect   www.execulink.com/~robin/

"number coercion failed"


From fredrik at effbot.org  Fri Jan  5 09:40:55 2001
From: fredrik at effbot.org (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 14:40:55 GMT
Subject: Migrating to perl?
References: <3Fa56.4580$of7.216286@news1.atl> <mailman.978670867.31055.python-list@python.org> <V%c56.4648$of7.221797@news1.atl> <BLj56.3858$XZ5.132068@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com> <6Nk56.822$4Z.64804@news2.atl>
Message-ID: <X1l56.3838$Qb7.501095@newsb.telia.net>

Joel Ricker wrote:
> Whats the c.l.py equivalent of "Just Another Perl Hacker"?

print "Just Another Python Hacker"




From daniel at dittmar.net  Sat Jan 27 08:21:47 2001
From: daniel at dittmar.net (Daniel Dittmar)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 14:21:47 +0100
Subject: c(++)python?
References: <3A71EB9C.D258C1C0@comm.mot.com>
Message-ID: <3A72CB6B.2F074C5C@dittmar.net>

Dynamic loading of extension modules is also a concern, as it is much
more difficult to keep a C++ interface binary compatible.

> Is this in fact the case, or was c++ not standardized/mature enough
> when python first came out?

I doubt it is standardized enough by now. There are still major
variations in the way overloading is resolved etc. And writing portable
C++ is pretty much experimental: you compile on all relevant platforms
and look for errors. Which means for most contributors that they compile
on Linux and Win32 (and curse all those lesser platforms a year later
when their code gets ported the first time).

Daniel


From martin.skott at propylon.com  Thu Jan 18 08:08:45 2001
From: martin.skott at propylon.com (Martin Skott)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 13:08:45 GMT
Subject: Including form post data in a Zope RESPONE.redirect
Message-ID: <vgrd2ewe.fsf@propylon.com>

Hi
Is there a way to manipulate a ZOpe RESPONSE object so it includes form
POST data?
I have some code where the user fils in a form. The method called then
uses RESPONSE.redirect() to redirect the user according to the form data, but
I need to make the take his form data with him and send them in a POST action
to the URL he is redirected to. How is this possible? I guess I have to
manipulate some HTTP header or so, but how?
-- 
Martin Skott
Software Developer
Propylon - Enabling Universal Mobility
http://www.propylon.com
Tel: +353 096 37245
Mobile: +353 087 9680370



From rjroy at takingcontrol.com  Wed Jan 31 19:17:09 2001
From: rjroy at takingcontrol.com (Robert Roy)
Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 00:17:09 GMT
Subject: Best way to match everything between tags
References: <DA0e6.94$o3.4354@news.world-online.no>
Message-ID: <3a78a853.1151132812@news1.on.sympatico.ca>

On Wed, 31 Jan 2001 23:46:17 +0100, "Henning VON ROSEN"
<hvrosen at world-online.no> wrote:

>Hi!
>I am learning regular expressions.
>
>What is thenatural way to match everything that is not "something"
>fx i want to maipulate all the text of a html document, but none of the tags
>
>
>This matches all the tags;
>
>s="text<body>some text<tag>more text</tag>text"
>r = re.compile(r"<.*?>")
> print r.sub("WWW",s)
>
>this works fine if I want to manipulate the tags, but I want to maipulate
>the text between tags
>
>I haven't found a one-expression way. Thankful for any indications!
>
>/Henning von Rosen
>
>
Some ideas:

You should define groups in your re

>>> s="text<body>some text<tag>more text</tag>text"

Definining a group around the content

>>> m = re.search(r'<[^>]*>([^<]*)<', s)
>>> m.groups()
('some text',)

Adding a group around the tag
>>> m = re.search(r'<([^>]*)>([^<]*)<\1', s)
>>> m.groups()
('body', 'some text')

Uing a lookahead to find the matching tag, this will find an inner
pair ie one with no more tags in it

>>> m = re.search(r'<([^>]*)>([^<]*)</\1', s)
>>> m.groups()
('tag', 'more text')

Example of that
>>> s="text<body>some text<tag>more <b>bolded</b> text</tag>text"

>>> m = re.search(r'<([^>]*)>([^<]*)</\1', s)
>>> m.groups()
('b', 'bolded')

This will pick up outermost tag pair
>>> m = re.search(r'<([^>]*)>(.*)</\1', s)
>>> m.groups()
('tag', 'more <b>bolded</b> text')


>>> s="text<body>some text<tag>more <tag> stuff</tag><b>bolded</b> text</tag>text"
>>> m = re.search(r'<([^>]*)>(.*)</\1', s)
>>> m.groups()
('tag', 'more <tag> stuff</tag><b>bolded</b> text')

 do non greedy match, this will pickup leftmost tag and leftmost close
tag
>>> m = re.search(r'<([^>]*)>(.*?)</\1', s)
>>> m.groups()
('tag', 'more <tag> stuff')

Lots of ways to get in trouble here
Bob


From shredwheat at mediaone.net  Wed Jan 17 12:18:32 2001
From: shredwheat at mediaone.net (Pete Shinners)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 17:18:32 GMT
Subject: McMillan's installer & new module
References: <94209j$giv$1@athena.euroweb.hu>
Message-ID: <Itk96.65731$y9.12085067@typhoon.we.rr.com>

"Arpad Kiss" <sekter at matavnet.hu> wrote
> I have installed Python 2.0 and McMillan's installer(version 3i) on Win NT
> 4.0 sp6.
> If I use Standalone.py to create a standalone exe and my script contains
> only "import new" then the generated exe raises an error message:
> ImportError: No module named new

last i heard from gordon, there is definitely a problem with the
latest installer when it tries to import the builtin modules
(time, new, etc).
gordon seems pretty busy these days and said a new version would
be available whenever he can get around to it.





From jpet at eskimo.com  Sun Jan 14 16:39:48 2001
From: jpet at eskimo.com (Jeff Petkau)
Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 21:39:48 GMT
Subject: why is a negative shift value illegal?
References: <mailman.979430656.15673.python-list@python.org> <Nhb86.43336$ge4.16574483@news2.rdc2.tx.home.com>
Message-ID: <E0p86.8375$Oq4.865436@dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net>

Rainer Deyke <root at rainerdeyke.com> wrote in message
news:Nhb86.43336$ge4.16574483 at news2.rdc2.tx.home.com...
> Consider 16 bit color formats.  Red, green, and blue components are packed
> into a single 16 bit value.  For any given 16 bit color format, each
> component has a mask, from which can be derived its position and length.
> For example:
>
> Pixel format: rrrrrggggggbbbbb
>
> red_mask = 0xf800
> red_position = 11
> red_length = 5
> green_mask = 0x07e0
> green_postion = 5
> green_length = 6
> blue_mask = 0x001f
> blue_position = 0
> blue_length = 5
>
> To operate on an individual component, on needs to isolate it, shift it to
> the right by its position, and promote it to an 8 bit value by shifting it
> to the left:
>
> red = ((color & red_mask) >> red_position) << (8 - red_length)
>
> The left shift value can be precalculated, of course.  However, if
negative
> shift values were allowed, the two shifts could be reduced to a single
> shift:

Kind of offtopic, but that's not a very good way to convert colors.
In your example, white (0xffff) would be converted to (248,248,248)
when it should be (255,255,255). A better conversion is:

    r = ((color & red_mask) >> red_position)*255 / (2**red_length-1)
    g = ((color & green_mask) >> green_position)*255/ (2**green_length-1)
    b = ((color & blue_mask) >> blue_position)*255 / (2**blue_length-1)

but the division is kind of expensive in some circumstances. You can also
fill with the most significant bits of each component instead of with
zero:

    r = (color & red_mask) >> red_position
    r = (r << 8-red_length) | (r >> red_length+red_length-8)

Gah. That's hideous. Well, when you're hardwiring the component sizes
it works ok. (Of course, it's not very robust at all--it breaks with
component sizes <4 or >8. It would work better if we had signed
shifts, so I suppose I agree with your original point.)

--Jeff





From thomas at xs4all.net  Wed Jan 10 13:37:34 2001
From: thomas at xs4all.net (Thomas Wouters)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 19:37:34 +0100
Subject: 2001 Enchancement Wishlist
In-Reply-To: <slrn95m3nd.45d.scarblac@pino.selwerd.nl>; from scarblac@pino.selwerd.nl on Tue, Jan 09, 2001 at 01:18:58PM +0000
References: <20010104165116.F2467@xs4all.nl> <008601c07675$0adf2020$102b2bc1@cadlab.it> <20010104203232.P402@xs4all.nl> <006801c0769b$ac0cc3a0$9d8a1a97@martelli> <20010105110459.Q402@xs4all.nl> <mailman.978706087.24274.python-list@python.org> <937l3u$gbi$1@slb2.atl.mindspring.net> <937pl001peq@news1.newsguy.com> <mailman.979044256.1866.python-list@python.org> <slrn95m3nd.45d.scarblac@pino.selwerd.nl>
Message-ID: <20010110193734.U2467@xs4all.nl>

On Tue, Jan 09, 2001 at 01:18:58PM +0000, Remco Gerlich wrote:
> Thomas Wouters <thomas at xs4all.net> wrote in comp.lang.python:
> > On Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 07:51:35PM +0100, Alex Martelli wrote:
> > > "Andrew Dalke" <dalke at acm.org> wrote in message
> > > news:937l3u$gbi$1 at slb2.atl.mindspring.net...
> > >     [snip]
> > > >   proxy = Proxy(...)
> > > >   sys.modules[module_name] = proxy
> > > >
> > > > In other words, what you import doesn't need to be a module.
> > > > It can be a class instance instead - or any other data type.
> > > 
> > > Now THAT is interesting!  I would never have guessed that the
> > > items in sys.modules need not be module objects.  Is this
> > > documented, something I can rely on forevermore and just
> > > happened not to notice in my study, or just an accident of the
> > > current implementation which might go away anytime?
> > 
> > Without pretending to channel Guido or someone similar important in that
> > area of Python, I think I can safely say it's to be considered an
> > implementation detail, and that the behaviour is undefined. It could even
> > be considered a bug, since 'import' claims to import a module into the
> > local namespace, and a class instance isn't a module :)
> 
> And note that you can't use 'from proxy import *' when proxy is a class,
> it gives a type error.

Well, there is hope! For both you and Alex, and everyone else who thinks
Python should be even more consistent :-)

http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2001-January/011494.html

Cross-fertilizing-ly y'rs,

-- 
Thomas Wouters <thomas at xs4all.net>

Hi! I'm a .signature virus! copy me into your .signature file to help me spread!



From scarblac at pino.selwerd.nl  Sat Jan 13 19:21:57 2001
From: scarblac at pino.selwerd.nl (Remco Gerlich)
Date: 14 Jan 2001 00:21:57 GMT
Subject: No meta-type in Python?
References: <93q4og$ppg$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <slrn961s15.buo.scarblac@pino.selwerd.nl>

Chris Ryland <cpr at emsoftware.com> wrote in comp.lang.python:
> Just out of curiousity, why is there no <type 'type'> in Python?

There is one. Types are of type type.

>>> x=1
>>> type(x)
<type 'int'>
>>> type(type(x))
<type 'type'>

> I.e., I'd expect type(Ellipsis) to be <type 'type'> rather than
> <type 'ellipsis'>.

?

Ellipsis isn't a type. Ellipsis is, well, Ellipsis :)

-- 
Remco Gerlich


From grey at despair.rpglink.com  Wed Jan 31 12:27:43 2001
From: grey at despair.rpglink.com (Steve Lamb)
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 17:27:43 -0000
Subject: COMMERCIAL: BlackAdder Windows/Linux Python GUI Development Environment
References: <mailman.980945617.21811.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrn97gioe.j0u.grey@teleute.dmiyu.org>

On Wed, 31 Jan 2001 12:52:34 -0000, phil at river-bank.demon.co.uk
<phil at river-bank.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>BlackAdder is available in two editions, the Personal Edition and the
>Business Edition. The Business Edition allows the run-time elements of
>BlackAdder (except for mxODBC) to be re-distributed with your
>applications at no extra cost.

    This is the part that gets me wondering.  How pervasive are these run time
portions?  I'd like to use QT as the graphical toolkit for a project I have
and that project will be GPL'd.  What problems would I have in interfacing GPL
code and the personal edition upon distribution?  I'm confident I could
distribute the code freely but what would that code evetually run on?

-- 
         Steve C. Lamb         | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your
         ICQ: 5107343          | main connection to the switchboard of souls.
-------------------------------+---------------------------------------------


From vsbabu at erols.com  Sat Jan 20 09:13:31 2001
From: vsbabu at erols.com (Satheesh Babu)
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 09:13:31 -0500
Subject: Blackadder - any opinions?
Message-ID: <94c6cu$hl2$1@bob.news.rcn.net>

Hi,

I saw this Python IDE at
http://www.thekompany.com/products/blackadder/

Personal edition is $49. Just wondering anybody had any
experience with that before I think of buying it.

Screenshots look good though the site is damn too slow!

Babu

--
v.s.babu
vsbabu at erols.com
http://vsbabu.csoft.net




From mhammond at my-deja.com  Thu Jan 18 21:03:11 2001
From: mhammond at my-deja.com (Mark Hammond)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 02:03:11 GMT
Subject: I will kill my Python
References: <mailman.979852022.13720.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <94878r$btv$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

In article <mailman.979852022.13720.python-list at python.org>,
  "Bruno Schaefer" <bup.schaefer at planet-interkom.de> wrote:

> goodby, I'am going to look for another real easy animal !

Excellent - please don't bother coming back.


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From entropiamax at jazzfree.com  Tue Jan  2 11:58:46 2001
From: entropiamax at jazzfree.com (entropia)
Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2001 17:58:46 +0100
Subject: Printing with wxPython
References: <ecsu4t89nigkvgna3kr8a53c84pgf4l3mu@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3A5208C5.A9AF602C@jazzfree.com>

At www.vex.net/parnassus I found:
http://starship.python.net/crew/jjkunce/wxpython/
1. Printable Text Controls for wxPython

prntxtwx.py includes the class PrintableTextControl which adds OnDoPrint() and OnPrintSetup()
methods to its parent class, wxTextCtrl. Also provides control of print margins and line wrap.
(Margins may not be working quite right).

Dale Strickland-Clark escribi?:

> I'm trying to get to grips with wxPython and printing on Windows.
>
> Has anyone got a very simple sample that sets up a device context and prints some text or simple
> graphics?
>
> I can't find any printing examples.
>
> Thanks for any help.
>
> --
> Dale Strickland-Clark
> Out-Think Ltd
> Business Technology Consultants
> --
> http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list




From cjc26 at nospam.cornell.edu  Mon Jan  8 14:09:45 2001
From: cjc26 at nospam.cornell.edu (Cliff Crawford)
Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2001 19:09:45 GMT
Subject: Arrow Keys in the Interpreter Interface
References: <93cqku$prk$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <Zfo66.10861$_G5.1897642@typhoon.nyroc.rr.com>

* eandroid at my-deja.com <eandroid at my-deja.com> menulis:
| I use zsh as my shell instead of bash and as a result my arrow keys do
| not properly work in the interpretter, printing ^[[A instead of
| scrolling back though my history. Has anyone seen this? If I change my
| default shell to bash and relogin it starts working. I think that this
| may be related to scripts that the shell runs on login but Python is the
| only program that seems affected.

It sounds like you don't have readline support compiled in; edit
Modules/Setup in the python source directory and recompile to add it.
(I don't know why it works in bash though..)


-- 
Cliff Crawford               http://www.people.cornell.edu/pages/cjc26/
                             print "Just another Python hacker"


From skip at mojam.com  Tue Jan 16 05:56:47 2001
From: skip at mojam.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 04:56:47 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Usenet/mailing list bridge
In-Reply-To: <9413si$7sv$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
References: <9413si$7sv$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <14948.10479.645277.933486@beluga.mojam.com>

    Simon> The bridge seems to have been down for a while - the last post to
    Simon> make it from the newsgroup to the list was at around 17:30 GMT on
    Simon> the 15th.

This is a bad thing? ;-)

S



From p at mjs400.co.uk  Tue Jan 16 06:12:30 2001
From: p at mjs400.co.uk (Pete)
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 12:12:30 +0100
Subject: Python and Industry, IBM I'm afraid
References: <3A63D9E8.F9B74ACE@mjs400.co.uk> <mailman.979631000.28993.python-list@python.org> <941c14$dok$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <3A642C9F.58E02F23@mjs400.co.uk>


"Simon B." wrote:
> 
> In article <mailman.979631000.28993.python-list at python.org>,
>   "Tim Peters" <tim.one at home.com> wrote:
> > [Pete]
> > > Has anyone ported Python to IBM iSeries 400?...Or is this
> > > considered too much hassle, because they are big fat trucks
> > > of servers - and come bundled with no GUI support (they have
> > > had posix for many years)?...Or are people waiting for Linux
> > > support in a logical OS partition?...Or does no one care?
> >
> > A Python port to platform X, regardless of X, is almost always done
> by some
> > user of X who wants to run Python on X, and usually working alone.
> That's
> > how things work in any project without revenue to pay for a port
> (don't know
> > whether you've used Python, but if you have and someone charged you
> for it,
> > you were suckered bigtime).
> >
> > I don't know whether there are any Python ports to IBM iSeries 400,
> but, if
> > there aren't, that would be because no IBM iSeries 400 user bothered
> to port
> > it.  In which case, you'll have to ask them what their hangup is --
> or ask
> > IBM why they don't think it's worth their time to make a port
> available.
> > Note that Intel and Microsoft cared enough to pay ActiveState for a
> Win64
> > Python port.  So there's more than one way to get a port done, but
> the only
> > way that's free requires a volunteer.
> 
> The subject of porting Python to the iSeries 400 (better known as the
> AS/400) has come up before - do a deja search on 'AS/400' in c.l.py,
> and you'll find quite a few hits.
> 
> Its not a case of not being bothered - I'd *love* to get Python going
> on the '400. The main issue is that the AS/400 doesn't come with a C
> compiler. There is a C compiler available, but it's expensive, and
> almost no one has it. I've been working on the '400 for over ten years,
> on dozens of sites, and I've *never* come across one with the C
> compiler installed. The '400 world is dominated by various flavours of
> RPG, with a scattering of COBOL. Very exciting.
> 
> Now, a Jython port is a bit more likely - the '400 comes with what I'm
> told is a very good JVM. I've not had any sucess getting it to work
> just yet, but I keep trying. If I ever do get it going, c.l.py will be
> the first to know...
> 
Honestly Simon! I do have an old, working version of JPython on my
account on virtual400.com :) THAT was easy.
More importantly though, if I can put to one side the 11 years spent
coding for Business (the horror...the horror...), and get further into
debt, and stay fatherly, and get hold of a C compiler, perhaps it will
be a good challenge to make the first EBCDICy Python Port, but I think
brighter, fitter, younger guys can do it before the end of the century.

Given Industry/IBM is a fact that hasn't changed, and won't change in a
hurry: what's next?

--Pete


From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Fri Jan 19 17:14:05 2001
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 22:14:05 +0000
Subject: Tabbing/Spaces
References: <B68E060D.901B%bobhicks@adelphia.net>
 <mtzogn9rpx.fsf@astron.berkeley.edu>
Message-ID: <ivcZcLAtwLa6Ew2r@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>

In article <mtzogn9rpx.fsf at astron.berkeley.edu>, Johann Hibschman
<johann at physics.berkeley.edu> writes
>Robert L Hicks writes:
...
>Well, a "tab stop" is defined to be equal to 8 spaces.  However, on
...
Well, I define my tab stops and I make them equal to 4 spaces. Using
tabs allows me to alter all indents at once. Also quicker at travelling
back and forth across slow networks.
-- 
Robin Becker


From wedjlok at excite.com  Sat Jan  6 02:18:58 2001
From: wedjlok at excite.com (Eric Anechiarico)
Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2001 07:18:58 GMT
Subject: Fibonacci numbers/program
Message-ID: <936gsv$3r1$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

Hello,

I am making a program to find Fibonacci number sequences and I wanted to
know, being fairly new at python, how to get it to open a window to ask
for the input for the ranges of numbers that I want it to search
between, as well as to save the output to a text file so taht I do not
have to look at the window and copy/paste the numbers it returns, since
the buffer will fill up with large amounts of numbers and I cannot see
the beginning of the string.

Example: I want to search for the string from 1 to 10^100.  An input
window opens asking for range of numbers to search between.  I enter it.
Then it will give me all that it finds and then it will save that to a
text file.

The core of it will be (to find the numbers):

def FindFibBetween(A,B):
? x, y = 1L, 1L
? while x < B:
? ? if x >= A: print x
? ? x, y = y, x+y


I have that worked out and it works fine.  I just do not want to go into
it each time and ask FindFibBetween(1, n).  I should also mention that I
use a Macintosh computer, which has some effect as to what modules to
call and such..?

Thank you for your response, and I can supply the completed program for
all those other people who just happen to be interested in number theory
as well. <G>

Er


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From 320097644692-0001 at t-online.de  Fri Jan 26 17:28:40 2001
From: 320097644692-0001 at t-online.de (Toralf Wittner)
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 23:28:40 +0100
Subject: smtplib --> receiving emails two times
References: <94paet$9o3$1@news.netcologne.de> <ph727tshcs4jpufk7iafl67l46jac83jdh@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <94stjd$7tr$07$1@news.t-online.com>

Tim Roberts wrote:

> Is it possible your script is getting executed twice for some readon?

It seems as if the problem occurs only if KDE's Konqueror Web browser is 
used for sending the form. Maybe it has something to do with KDE's new 
component model - first the HTML rendering engine is displaying the page 
and then a text editor is embedded instead of this because of 
<print "Content-Type: text/plain\n">. If I substitute this with
<print "Content-Type: text/html\n" I receive excactly one email. I 
therefore assume that you are right - there is certainly a second execution 
or something similar. Thank you very much!

Kind regards,
Toralf Wittner



From echuck at mindspring.com  Fri Jan 12 23:40:22 2001
From: echuck at mindspring.com (echuck at mindspring.com)
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 04:40:22 GMT
Subject: Web devel with python. Whats the best route?
References: <mailman.978910629.6814.python-list@python.org> <93cqvi0191h@news1.newsguy.com> <kuofxhi4d2.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>
Message-ID: <93om7l$p6s$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

In article <kuofxhi4d2.fsf at lasipalatsi.fi>,
  Erno Kuusela <erno-news at erno.iki.fi> wrote:
> In article <93cqvi0191h at news1.newsguy.com>, "Alex Martelli"
> <aleaxit at yahoo.com> writes:
>
> | "Session continuity" will have to be provided via cookies, but
that's
> | not really all that hard
>
> note that mod_python and mod_snake are in the same boat (modulo
> libraries they may or may not provide?) because they also run
> with multiple processes.
>
> lately i've come to the conclusion that the best way to do session
> tracking (certainly better than cookies) is to generate a unique id
> and put it in the url as a path component. something like
> http://my.site/my-program/0dj2/operation or whatever.  you can use map
> the unique to (sequence of?) words from id/usr/dict/words if you want
> to make the url human-rememberable :)
>
> this has the advantage of
> a) not needing cookies enabled in the users browser
> b) making the session portable in the sense that you can
>    take a url to another machine and have it work
> c) making it work with search engines
> d) being technically less ugly than cookies
>
>   -- erno

As usual, there are advantages and disadvantages between two approaches.

One disadvantage with the above is that if the session data expires
after some period of inactivity (a common practice on various web
sites), then the URLs resulting from the above technique are not
bookmarkable. You might be able to detect this on the server side and
compensate to make them so, but then that's just as ugly or more so
than using cookies.

Also, is (b) really an advantage? How often do you need to take a URL
to another machine?

I'm not clear on (c) and search engines. If a session is related to a
specific user, doesn't that imply that:
 1. the searchbot gets it's own session id,
 2. stores the id in the URL and
 3. now when a user finds the URL via the search engine, they click in
and are considered to be "AltaVista"?

On the contrary, using cookies gives you clean URLs like:
  http://host.com/docs/faq/
Which when clicked through a search engine will not come in with a
session id that is either expired or inaccurate, like
http://host.com/89dfgk49f/docs/faq would.

Item (d) says cookies are ugly. What's ugly about this:?
  Set-Cookie: use=webware;
Or the clean URLs described above? Session ids are for the eyes of
programmers, not users.


In summary, I think cookies are both clean and convenient, if you're
confident your user base has them.


-Chuck
--
http://webware.sourceforge.net


Sent via Deja.com
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From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sun Jan 28 03:06:49 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 09:06:49 +0100
Subject: PyMacs vs. Pym (was: Pyditor, Text editor fully extendible in python a la' Emacs)
References: <20010127193848.59d0f64b.ngreco@softhome.net><HBEJKOJGHBOIBHLHPMKGIEAACIAA.rcalco@cortechs.com> <mailman.980638952.20592.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <950k0f01tco@news2.newsguy.com>

"Nahuel Greco" <ngreco at softhome.net> wrote in message
news:mailman.980638952.20592.python-list at python.org...
    [snip]
> > By the way, my ideal text editor will also keep my coffee cup full of
warm,
> > fresh Expresso while I'm working. Haven't found one yet that can do
that,
    [snip]
> > I'll have to insist on the java (small j) support...
>
> why java? (maybe we can do an editor and a language flamewar in the same
thread! :)

'java' is a common US term for 'coffee' (which is why Sun's "Java" has a
coffee-cup logo).  I fully agree we need a flamewar on _that_ language
oddity, given that coffee originated from Eastern Africa (presumably
near the town named Kaffa, in Ethiopia) and the best current varieties
are grown in Brazil and brewed in Italy (even Starbucks acknowledges
the latter implicitly with their Italianoid naming for their concoctions),
so, why should the largest island of _Indonesia_ give it its name...?!


Alex





From joejava at dragonat.net  Sun Jan  7 19:29:54 2001
From: joejava at dragonat.net (Joel Ricker)
Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2001 19:29:54 -0500
Subject: Misleading error message?
References: <3A57CE77.6B1665A@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <9X766.370$_e7.24857@news2.atl>

    Colin J. Williams wrote in message <3A57CE77.6B1665A at sympatico.ca>...
    [22]+=[int(src + .5) % 7]
    Traceback (SyntaxError: augmented assign to list not possible
    The error appears to be connected with the use of a constant on the lhs,
    as:
    c=[22]
    c+=[2]
    is permitted.

[22] is still a list literal which cannot be assigned to. c[22] is ok
(assuming its in range).

c=[22] just creates a new list, inializing the first entry to 22 and c+=[2]
just appends 2 the end of the list. Nice trick by the way, will have to file
that one away.

Joel

------------------------------------------------------------
Joel Ricker   joejava at dragoncat.net
  Just Another Python Hacker

I have been Perl-Free for 2 Days, 21 Hours, 40 Minutes, and 28 Seconds.





From jon at bezek.dstc.monash.edu.au  Tue Jan 23 18:26:41 2001
From: jon at bezek.dstc.monash.edu.au (Jonathan Giddy)
Date: 24 Jan 2001 10:26:41 +1100
Subject: Can I decompile PYC files?
References: <94j8j5$50e$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <jon.980291916@bezek.dstc.monash.edu.au>

noahspurrier at my-deja.com writes:

] 
] A process just deleted my .py file. I still have the .pyc file.
] Can I recover anything? I'm desparate. It doesn't have to be perfect.
] Thanks,
] Noah
] 
You can try using decompyle, which can be found using any search engine.  

If that doesn't work, I recently wrote my own decompiler which works pretty
well on 1.5.2 pyc/pyo files (or 2.0 files that don't use list comprehension).  
However, it's on my home machine, so I can't get to it right now.

Let me know how decompyle goes.  

Jon 
jon at dstc.edu.au



From uche at ogbuji.net  Fri Jan 26 21:30:58 2001
From: uche at ogbuji.net (Uche Ogbuji)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 02:30:58 GMT
Subject: pyXML support for XSL tranformations??
References: <rtga6.18098$bb.708443@news1.rdc1.tx.home.com> <94d1tj$6sa$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <3a6aef10.3738521@nntp.sprynet.com>
Message-ID: <3A7232DB.C576B547@ogbuji.net>

"David C. Ullrich" wrote:
> 
> On Sat, 20 Jan 2001 22:02:31 GMT, Chris Ryland <cpr at emsoftware.com>
> wrote:
> 
> [...]
> >
> >The Fourthought people (www.fourthought.com) also have an open-source
> >XSLT processor written in Python.
> 
> I was gonna say that but I wasn't sure they'd got something that would
> work with the latest version of Python.

4Suite >= 0.10.0 works with Python 1.5.2 and 2.0.  Current version is
0.10.1

> I have the 4Thought XSL stuff from a little while ago. When I
> installed it I had to replace the current (1.5.2) Python xml.dom
> with one that came with 4Thought, which I gather was an
> older version.

No, actually, PyDOM is now obsolete.  4DOM is now the "official"
full-blown DOM from the Python/XML SIG and included in PyXML.

Furthermore 4Suite >= 0.10.1 bundles PyXML for easier installation.

> I didn't like this but I did it and it works fine.

As it should always have.

> Q: Does the current 4Thought XSL stuff get along a little
> more _cleanly_ with Python? (I actually haven't got around
> to getting Python 2.0 precisely because it took a little
> tweaking to get the XSL going in 1.5.2...)

I'd have to know what exactly you found unclean before.  There is no
reason why you can't download 4Suite-0.10.1.tar.gz, untar it, run
"python setup.py install", and be completely ready to go.

But just in case, there are a 4Suite Installation HOWTOs for UNIX and
Windows.

See

http://services.4Suite.org/topics/rdf/Top/Documentation/HOWTOs


-- 
Uche Ogbuji
Personal:   uche at ogbuji.net		http://uche.ogbuji.net
Work:       uche.ogbuji at fourthought.com	http://Fourthought.com


From rol9999 at attglobal.net  Mon Jan 15 16:41:53 2001
From: rol9999 at attglobal.net (Roland Schlenker)
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 16:41:53 -0500
Subject: Problem with a tuple - newbie ignorance
References: <3A633531.9010303@yale.edu> <3A635C32.9E5285C5@yale.edu>
Message-ID: <3A636EA1.6C1B885C@attglobal.net>

Steven Citron-Pousty wrote:
> 
> Sorry all about my incomprehensible message. Honestly, I tried reading
> the woodrat and the alligator but I can't get this too work.
> I didn't want to send code because I thought everyone would get POed at
> me sending code.
> Here is my code - remember think newbie and don't slam me too hard, its
> one of those days. Thanks again for any help
> Steve
> 
> import os
> import sys
> import string
> import re
> 
> #numfields is the number of fields to potentially parse
> numfields = 41
> 
> """  THIS LIST IS INCOMPETE - get complete list from the spreadsheet
>    ifields[0] is the name of the field
>     ifields[1] is the content of that field
>    so if we add a new item to the fields we have to add '' to the other
> 2 lists
>    """
> ifields = [['ID =', 'T = ', 'AU =', 'DIST =', 'DNUM =', 'ABS =',
> 'ARCH.FILTER = </B>I', 'ARCH.FILTER = </B>C', 'ARCH.FILTER = </B>N',
> 'ARCH.FILTER = </B>S', 'ARCH.FILTER = </B>E', 'CLASSIF',
> 'ICPSR.CLASSIF1', 'NACJD.CLASS', 'NACDA.CLASS' ,'SAMHDA.CLASS',
> 'IAED.CLASS', 'EXTENT.COLLECT', 'CLASSNO', 'SERIES.NAME', 'SERIES.INFO',
> 'RESTRICTIONS =', 'DATA.TYPE', 'TIME.PERIOD', 'DATE.OF.COLLECT',
> 'FUNDING.AGENCY', 'GRANT.NUMBER', 'DATA.SOURCE', 'EXTENT.PROCESS',
> 'DATA.FORMAT', 'COLLECT.NOTE', 'SAMPLING =', 'UNIVERSE =',
> 'RELATED.PUBS', 'CITATION =', 'KEYWORDS =', 'DIR =', 'CHAPTER =',
> 'SECTION =', 'SUBSECTION =','SUBSUB'],
> ['','','','','','','','','','','','','','','','','','','','','','','','','','','','','','','','','','','','','','','','','','','','','','','','','','','','','','','','','','','']]
> 
> #read the files and set up file for writing
> dir = os.listdir('D:\\statlab\\ssda\\data') #read in the list of files
> in this directory
> 
> """open the file"""
> for f in dir:
>     try:
>         fileproc = open('D:\\statlab\\ssda\\data\\'+f, 'r')
>     except IOError:
>         print 'Can\'t open file for reading.'
>         sys.exit(0)
> 
> #create a new iflieds to store the data. More important for looping
>     #through the directory
> 
>     result = ifields[:]
                     ^^^
I think you want a copy of ifields. A list is mutable.

> 
>     #read the file into a list
>     text = fileproc.readlines()
> 
>     #loop through and find an occurnce of a tag
>     #if you find a tag write it to the field
>     #if you don't find a tag write it to the previous found field
>     for i in text:
>         jindex = 0
>         found = 0
>         for j in result[0]:
>             if (i.rfind(j)==0) or (i.rfind(j)==1) or (i.rfind(j)==3):
>                if i.rfind("=")+2 == ' ':
>                    where = i.rfind("=")+3
>                else:
>                    where = i.rfind("=")+2
>                result[1][jindex] = i[where:-1]
>                oldindex = jindex
>                found = 1
>     # need to write a test for ; at the end
>                if result[1][jindex][-1] == ";":
>                    result[1][jindex] = i[where:-2]
>                break
>             elif (i.rfind(j)==6) or (i.rfind(j)==7):
>                if i.rfind("=")+6 == ' ':
>                    where = i.rfind("=")+7
>                else:
>                    where = i.rfind("=")+6
>                result[1][jindex] = i[where:-1]
>                found = 1
>                oldindex = jindex
>                if result[1][jindex][-1] == ";":
>                    result[1][jindex] = i[where:-2]
>                break
>             jindex += 1
>             if i.rfind("BV =") != -1:
>                break
>         if (found != 1) and (i.rfind("BV =") != -1):
>             result[1][oldindex] += i[0:-1]
>             found = 0
> 
>     crap  = 0
>     while crap < numfields :
>         if result[1][crap]:
>             print "field # ", result[0][crap], " ", result[1][crap]
>         crap += 1
> 
> ___________________________________________________________________________________________________

Roland Schlenker


From gerhard.nospam at bigfoot.de  Fri Jan 19 09:12:37 2001
From: gerhard.nospam at bigfoot.de (Gerhard =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 15:12:37 +0100
Subject: PSU uses emacs?
References: <948e4b$hm0$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <slrn96gjd2.1ch.gerhard.nospam@lilith.hqd-internal.de>

jstar from joe here. Everybody who grew up with MS-DOS and Turbo-Pascal
knows that the WordStar keybindings are the one-and-only that really count.

This post written with slrn and jstar :-)

On Fri, 19 Jan 2001 04:00:14 GMT, Chris Ryland <cpr at emsoftware.com> wrote:
>Why do I have the sinking feeling that, with all the talk about IDEs
>for Python, that the cognoscenti all use Emacs with python-mode and a
>shell window? ;-)

I have checked out the cvs version of Boa Constructor yesterday and have to
say

WOW!!!

This is the most impressive Python program I ever saw. It seems to be
already past the stage of a Visual Basic killer. I have played about half an
hour with it and it didn't crash once. Everything a Python programer would
ever want is at least roughly there. It even creates UML diagrams for you.
-- 
mail:   gerhard <at> bigfoot <dot> de
web:    http://highqualdev.com


From Lutz.Schroeer at tu-clausthal.de  Mon Jan  1 16:27:25 2001
From: Lutz.Schroeer at tu-clausthal.de (Lutz Schroeer)
Date: 1 Jan 2001 21:27:25 GMT
Subject: Simulating WWW button press
Message-ID: <Xns901CE2154Latzikatz@139.174.2.56>

Hi,

I try to write a program which explores a WWW-site. Unfortunately not all 
links on this site are done by a standard "<a href=""></a>" construct but 
with a button:

[...]
<INPUT NAME="zipallpage" TYPE="submit" VALUE="Get all files"> 
[...]

How do I get my Python program to simulate the button being pressed to 
retrieve the data which hides behind the button?

Lutz


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Wed Jan 31 03:43:49 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 09:43:49 +0100
Subject: How do you lock your web app data?
References: <956uqd$6st$1@newsreaderg1.core.theplanet.net>
Message-ID: <958j810o2e@news2.newsguy.com>

"Franz GEIGER" <fgeiger at datec.at> wrote in message
news:956uqd$6st$1 at newsreaderg1.core.theplanet.net...
    [snip]
> So  an important issue enters the game: How do I lock others out, when one
> edits/writes records? Please get me right: This will not be a heavy load
app
    [snip]
> Of course I could take a database as backend but I wonder if there are
other
> possibilities to achieve that "serialization"? How do you do it? Do you
> always use a database? Is it worth the effort doing it without a database?

And the answers are: yes, with a relational DBMS, yes, no.

> The server is an NT box running IIS4. Python is of version 2.0
(AvtiveState

Others will no doubt disagree, but: when I need 'serialization' of
"edits" by different users I also need atomic transactions and reliable
recovery from errors.  A halfway-decent RDBMS gives me all of that
for free, AND very handy primitives for all kinds of data access.

For a non-heavy-load application under NT, I would use MSDE -- a freely
redistributable version of the [small version of] Microsoft SQL Server
engine, optimized for up to 5 simultaneous accesses; you can freely
download it from the Microsoft site (you are legally licensed to
redistribute it without limits IF you have a license for Microsoft
Visual Studio products, or else its Office professional version --
but IANAL, so, *do* check the details on Microsoft's site!) -- in
fact you can download and use (but NOT redistribute) the Developer
Edition of SQL Server, which in addition to that same engine has all
the usual GUI tools for DB administration, tuning, etc -- but MSDE
comes with a small packet of non-GUI tools which an old dinosaur like
me finds perfectly OK (osql.exe to pump SQL commands into any ODBC
compliant engine via commandline and/or textfiles, for example).

But there are other and freer RDBMS which one might prefer, if for
any reason one wants to eschew MSDE -- Postgres which has been
opensource forever, Interbase which has been opensourced a few
months ago, the newest version/descendant of Adabas (I forget its
current name) which is also going opensource, etc.  Just make sure
you get decent support for atomic transactions (ideally also for
integrity checks, triggers and stored procedures ... but that's just
my GREEDY side speaking!!!-).  My experience is with MSDE, but I'm
sure the others are good, too.

Hey, I bet even GADFLY would do, if you ran it in a central process
and had your scripts talk to that process with Gadfly's TCP/IP
client/server protocol (but I have no experience of *that*) --
but I don't think you'd get atomic transactions then, and I think
they ARE important.

Serialization is not normally enough -- you want some reading
operation[s] to be 'packaged up' with the writing operation[s]
that depend on it, too; this is "a transaction".  Trying to
express this need as a very elementary example...:

Just imagine that all your scripts need do is increment a
total by some amount:
    total = <read the previous total>
    total = total + new_amount
    <write the new total>

If the writes are serialized, but the read and the write are
not "packaged" as a "transaction" unit for serialization, then
sooner or later this will "miss a beat" -- two processes will
both read the same "previous total", then each will add a
different amount to it, and re-write the "new total"... the
SECOND of these writes will obliterate the first.  Not good.


Alex





From katz at Glue.umd.edu  Sat Jan 27 09:42:17 2001
From: katz at Glue.umd.edu (Roy Katz)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 09:42:17 -0500
Subject: . Python 2.1 function attributes
In-Reply-To: <$5A+ZwAGjtc6EwE0@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0101270135190.7677-100000@y.glue.umd.edu> <mailman.980593892.725.python-list@python.org> <$5A+ZwAGjtc6EwE0@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0101270941160.3501-100000@y.glue.umd.edu>

Didn't you feel it already?  
The language was going to hell even before print>> was added.


</asbestos>. 
Roey


On Sat, 27 Jan 2001, Robin Becker wrote:

> seems to me that having multiple ways of doing return is a bad idea
> -- 
> Robin Becker
> 



From mfletch at tpresence.com  Fri Jan 12 11:18:42 2001
From: mfletch at tpresence.com (Mike Fletcher)
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 11:18:42 -0500
Subject: pattern matching in python
Message-ID: <CC59868A0A76D311B1F50090277B321C1F37AB@VRTMAIL>

Curse you!  My code uses the arglist gimmick all over the place, especially
in the parse-tree processors.  Once again we, the people, are marginalised
by the dictator perched on his natty red sofa in the palace.  Some day, mark
my words, the people of the automatically-unpacking tuple arguments shall
rise up and overthrow this tyrannical government!

My people, rally to me!  They cannot kill us all!  They dictators cannot
hold on to power forever!  They would not dare to strike us down if we
all<pop>(urk)

-----Original Message-----
From: Tim Peters [mailto:tim.one at home.com]
Sent: Friday, January 12, 2001 3:19 AM
To: Quinn Dunkan; python-list at python.org
Subject: RE: pattern matching in python
...
Yup.  Guido has mentioned that he might drop the arglist gimmick in P3K,
though, as it's conspicuous by absence in real Python programs.  Or maybe I
made that up!  It's hard to tell.
...



From Doc at goodweb.de  Wed Jan 24 09:43:10 2001
From: Doc at goodweb.de (Thomas Korb)
Date: 24 Jan 2001 15:43:10 +0100
Subject: how to find the path of a script
Message-ID: <doc.m3u26pf1tt.fsf@goodweb.de>

Hi! Is there a more canonical way to add the path of a script to
sys.path? (There should be, but I didn't find it.)

   import sys, os

   sys.path.append(
       os.path.dirname(
       os.path.normpath(
       os.path.join(os.getcwd(),sys.argv[0]))))

What I would need is something like Perl's:

   use FindBin;
   use lib "$FindBin::Bin";

Thanks in advance!

-- 
Dr. Thomas Korb (aka Doc)                       Have a nice day!  :o)

DOMAIN: www.goodweb.de  -  Home of GOODWEB.DEsign / Cologne / Germany
E-MAIL: Doc at goodweb.de  -  PGP RSA-1024 available / no HTML / en & de


From hwanjoyu at uiuc.edu  Thu Jan  4 13:15:52 2001
From: hwanjoyu at uiuc.edu (Hwanjo Yu)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 12:15:52 -0600
Subject: Q: how to execute an outside program in the python ?
Message-ID: <H5356.720$WF6.14481@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu>

Thanks.




From root at rainerdeyke.com  Sun Jan 14 11:25:00 2001
From: root at rainerdeyke.com (Rainer Deyke)
Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 16:25:00 GMT
Subject: why is a negative shift value illegal?
References: <mailman.979455916.32613.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <wpk86.44668$ge4.17255421@news2.rdc2.tx.home.com>

"Tim Peters" <tim.one at home.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.979455916.32613.python-list at python.org...
> [Rainer Deyke]
> > I don't buy the speed argument.
>
> If that implies you do buy the other arguments, there's no point haggling
> over the weakest one <0.5 wink>.

No, it implies that I did not have an immediate response to the others.

> > Consider 16 bit color formats.
> > ...
>
> OK, I did.  I concluded that if I were doing significant amounts of pixel
> twiddling, I sure as heck wouldn't be writing it in Python no matter what
> gimmicks were added to shifts (an extension module, sure, but not in
Python
> proper).  OTOH, if I weren't doing significant amounts, speed would be a
> non-issue.

My argument wasn't just about speed.  Consider again the code to calculate
the red component of a color:

red = ((color & red_mask) >> red_position) << (8 - red_length)

Right now this fails if red_length is greater than 8.  Fixing this is
possible, but messy:

red_right_shift = red_postion + red_length - 8
if red_right_shift < 0:
  red_left_shift = -red_right_shift
  red_right_shift = 0
else:
  red_left_shift = 0

red = ((color & red_mask) >> red_right_shift) << red_left_shift

I'm using 16 bit colors as an example, but the same principle applies to
many other cases.

> In every case Python raises an exception, *someone* eventually says "hey!
> let's make it mean something instead!".  That way lies madness.  Allowing
> negative shift counts simply isn't a compelling idea,

Mostly because shifts themselves are only rarely used.


--
Rainer Deyke (root at rainerdeyke.com)
Shareware computer games           -           http://rainerdeyke.com
"In ihren Reihen zu stehen heisst unter Feinden zu kaempfen" - Abigor




From db3l at fitlinxx.com  Thu Jan 18 04:24:21 2001
From: db3l at fitlinxx.com (David Bolen)
Date: 18 Jan 2001 04:24:21 -0500
Subject: Relational Databases and Python
References: <mailman.979589896.32678.python-list@python.org> <3A63D5DB.50B7DD0E@python.net> <d$pEguFgAHA.266@fnews1.vi-internet.de> <3A65F0E0.DD744A09@bigfoot.de> <946c19$sgh$1@news1.wdf.sap-ag.de>
Message-ID: <uae8pmcvu.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com>

"Daniel Dittmar" <daniel.dittmar at sap.com> writes:

> True as well. There exists a module implementing the API which is about 90%
> complete (and which got posted to the SAP DB mailing list). But as there
> wasn't a general outcry for this missing piece, I hadn't shifted my
> priorities into that direction.

And of course, since it offers an ODBC driver, presumably as an
alternative to the direct Python module, you could just use an ODBC
DB-API compliant module, like mxODBC, right?

--
-- David
-- 
/-----------------------------------------------------------------------\
 \               David Bolen            \   E-mail: db3l at fitlinxx.com  /
  |             FitLinxx, Inc.            \  Phone: (203) 708-5192    |
 /  860 Canal Street, Stamford, CT  06902   \  Fax: (203) 316-5150     \
\-----------------------------------------------------------------------/


From mitjase at hotmail.com  Tue Jan 23 06:01:59 2001
From: mitjase at hotmail.com (Mitja Semolic)
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 03:01:59 -0800
Subject: COM in Python?
Message-ID: <pzdb6.718$6a.35017@news.siol.net>

Is there a way to use COM objects in python?




From phd at phd.pp.ru  Fri Jan 26 05:14:01 2001
From: phd at phd.pp.ru (Oleg Broytmann)
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 13:14:01 +0300 (MSK)
Subject: .cgi or .cgp or .py or ?
In-Reply-To: <slrn971mq7.94m.tim@degree.ath.cx>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0101261310550.31021-100000@fep132.fep.ru>

On Fri, 26 Jan 2001, Tim Hammerquist wrote:
> Oleg Broytmann <phd at phd.pp.ru> wrote:
> >    (I am a bit exagerating here, but really not too much. Promoting Python
> > is very important in the world full of other damn P* languages :)
>
> Now, now.  I thought comp.lang.python was so much more well-adjusted and
> fair than this.  =)  You can at least take comfort in the fact that the
> mass majority of P*** CGI scripts have either no extension or .cgi and
> therefore do not "promote" their mother-language in the way you

   There are lots of pages with .php extension. I didn't mean only perl.
Certainly there are far too many P* languages :)

> described.  (Obviously, P*** didn't need this sort of promotion to
> succeed, and neither does Python.)

   Then Python, you think, succeed by itself, just by its existence? I
think you are wrong :) We need to develop the language and the core,
libraries and communities. We certainly should promote Python.

Oleg.
----
     Oleg Broytmann            http://phd.pp.ru/            phd at phd.pp.ru
           Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN.




From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Thu Jan  4 06:28:32 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 12:28:32 +0100
Subject: regular expressions: grabbing variables from multiple matches
References: <mailman.978567423.22249.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <931mqo02jp7@news2.newsguy.com>

"Heather Lynn White" <hwhite at chiliad.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.978567423.22249.python-list at python.org...
>
> Suppose I have a regular expression to grab all variations on a meta tag,
> and I will want to extract from any matches the name and content values
> for this tag.
>
> I use the following re
>
> MetaTag=re.compile(
>
r'''<\s*?(meta|META)\s*?=\s*?"(?P<name>.*?)"\s*?(content|CONTENT)\s*?=\s*?"(
?P<content>.*?)"\s*?>'''
> )

Key issue here: there are some groups that are not of interest (the first
and third ones, unnamed) and some that are (second and fourth, also named).


> now suppose I have an html document and I want to iterate through all the
> meta tags in that document. If I only catch one, I would say
>
> matches=MetaTag.match(body)

You need to use *search*, NOT *match*, unless you want your
search anchored at the start (i.e., body starts right with
the leading '<' of the metatag you're looking for).

> if matches:
> flds=matches.groupdict()
> name=flds["name"]
> content=flds["content"]
> print name, content
>
> but this does not work if I use instead findall, to get multiple matches,
> because findall returns a list of matches rather than a list of match
> objects, unlike all the other functions.  Is there a way to extract these
> variables in the way I have done above, but with many matches?

_Almost_, but you lose the named-fields convenience.  If you runn
MetaTag.findall(body) for some 'body' such as, say:

body = '''
<meta="pippo" content="pluto">
irrelevant stuff
<meta="foo" content="bar">
'''

you'll see findall returns:

[('meta', 'pippo', 'content', 'pluto'), ('meta', 'foo', 'content', 'bar')]

i.e., a list of tuples, each tuple corresponding to a match; items
of the tuple correspond to the groups you have defined in your re
(by using parentheses), whether you named them or not -- the naming
itself, however, is not preserved.

Note that you could restrict the items in the tuples to those of
your interest by NOT using parentheses (which define groups) for
items you don't care about; use (?:...) 'non grouping parentheses'
if you choose this route.  I.e., change your metatag re to:

MetaTag1=re.compile(
r'''<\s*?(?:meta|META)\s*?=\s*?"(?P<name>.*?)"\s*?(?:content|CONTENT)\s*?=\s
*?"(?P<content>.*?)"\s*?>'''
)

and findall will return just [('pippo', 'pluto'), ('foo', 'bar')].

Then, you could elegantly loop over the name/content pairs found:

for name, content in MetaTag1.findall(body):
    print name, content

If you need to keep grouping-parentheses, you'll just have to
'swallow' the resulting not-very-interesting parts of each
match, e.g. using your original definition of MetaTag:

for junk1, name, junk2, content in MetaTag.findall(body):
    print name, content


Unfortunately, I know of no way to preserve the named nature
of your groups, while 'mass-searching' the string for all
non-overlapping matches; if you DO absolutely need the
groups to be accessed by-name rather than by-order in the
tuples findall returns, you'll have to loop differently,
and, alas, a bit more complicatedly...:

pos = 0
while 1:
    match=MetaTag.match(body, pos)
    if match is None: break
    pos = match.end()
    flds=match.groupdict()
    name=flds["name"]
    content=flds["content"]
    print name, content

I think that, in general, the by-position access technique
will prove preferable.  Still, each of these approaches
may come in useful at times.


Alex





From daniel.dittmar at sap.com  Wed Jan 10 12:37:00 2001
From: daniel.dittmar at sap.com (Daniel Dittmar)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 18:37:00 +0100
Subject: Generating a DIFF between two xml-files ??
References: <NG_66.1970$k25.20083@news1.oke.nextra.no>
Message-ID: <93i6jr$h1a$1@news1.wdf.sap-ag.de>

> I need to generate a diff between to xml-files. They're based on the same
> schema or DTD. The diff-file must be in xml-format too. ( And that's where
> the problem starts. )

http://www.alphaworks.ibm.com/tech/xmltreediff has a tool to diff on XML.
It's in Java and I don't think there's the source available. So the
usefulness may be limited in a Python environment.

Daniel Dittmar

--
Daniel Dittmar
daniel.dittmar at sap.com
SAP DB, SAP Labs Berlin





From kare at speech.kth.se  Fri Jan  5 09:19:41 2001
From: kare at speech.kth.se (Kare Sjolander)
Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 15:19:41 +0100
Subject: ANNOUNCE: The Snack Sound Toolkit v2.0.5
Message-ID: <3A55D7FD.EE875C81@speech.kth.se>

This is mostly a bug fix release.

The Snack Sound Toolkit is designed to be used with a scripting
language.
Currently it supports Tcl/Tk and Python.
Snack adds commands to play, record, and process sound and supports
in-memory sound objects, file based audio, and streaming audio.
It handles fileformats such as WAV, MP3, AU, AIFF, and NIST/Sphere.
Snack is extensible, new commands, filters, and sound file formats can
be added using the Snack C-library. An easy to build example extension
is contained in the source distribution.
Snack also does sound visualization, e.g. waveforms and spectrograms.
The visualization objects update in real-time and can output postscript.

Snack works with Tcl8.0 - Tcl8.4 and Python 1.5.2-2.0
Platforms: Linux, Solaris, HP-UX, IRIX, NetBSD, Macintosh, and
Windows 95/98/NT/2K.

Source and binaries can be downloaded from
http://www.speech.kth.se/snack/

Regards,
Kare Sjolander
kare at speech.kth.se




From fig at monitor.net  Wed Jan 10 17:31:50 2001
From: fig at monitor.net (Stephen R. Figgins)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 14:31:50 -0800
Subject: COMMERCIAL: BlackAdder Windows/Linux Python/Qt Development 
 Environment
References: <3A5CBDB7.F82290B9@river-bank.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3A5CE2D6.1A954AD7@monitor.net>

M'lord, I have a cunning plan.....

-Stephen


From jrfsousaREMOVE005946EA at esoterica.pt  Tue Jan 23 12:18:44 2001
From: jrfsousaREMOVE005946EA at esoterica.pt (José Rui Faustino de Sousa)
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 17:18:44 -0000
Subject: CreateProcess and .py file
Message-ID: <980270342.658021@osiris.esoterica.pt>

Hi!

Does anyone have any idea how to "convince" CreateProcess to create a
process out of a python script file (or any non .exe "executable" for
that matter...)?

Or any substitute? Workaround?

Passing \path\python.exe and the script.py as an argument does not seam
to work either... But since this is under a lot of code I can not be
sure.

Best regards
Jos? Rui


--
========================================================================
"Balanced" is code for "denied": a right to free speech that must be
"balanced" against so exhaustive a list of other supposed values means a
right that can be exercised only when those in power judge that the
speech in question is innocuous to them. - Ronald Dworkin.
========================================================================
Iam://Jos? Rui Faustino de Sousa http://homepage.esoterica.pt/~jrfsousa/
mailto://jrfsousaREMOVE005946EA at esoterica.pt phone://+351-239444940
address://rua Carlos A. Pinto de Abreu n? 30C, 1? 3040 Coimbra Portugal
========================================================================
Real Programmers do sig blocks in Fortran 95.
========================================================================





From barry at digicool.com  Fri Jan  5 14:23:11 2001
From: barry at digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 14:23:11 -0500
Subject: Python vs. PHP (& Java?)
References: <LOBBJMHOIFOLFIPFANHJAEJFCHAA.zope@TheWebsons.com>
	<20010106014409.56D25A84F@darjeeling.zadka.site.co.il>
Message-ID: <14934.7967.353198.67631@anthem.wooz.org>

>>>>> "MZ" == Moshe Zadka <moshez at zadka.site.co.il> writes:

    >> Why else would GNU choose Python to write Mailman

    MZ> I'm not sure it was GNU who chose mailman as much as Barry who
    MZ> was kind enough to assign the FSF the mailman copyrights. Mind
    MZ> you, I think that Mailman is a wonderful program, and a
    MZ> testimony to the fact that Python can be used to program large
    MZ> applications.

Actually it was John Viega (Mailman's original author) who GPL'd
Mailman and assigned the Mailman copyrights to the FSF (with maybe a
little urging from some unnamed troublemakers <wink>).  Both were
prerequisites to getting the "GNU" stamp on Mailman.  The FSF had
looked at Majordomo and other MLMs and deemed none of them to be
"free"-enough given the FSF's definition of "free".  Personally, I
think the GPL is perfectly suited for Mailman.

I couldn't agree more with Moshe about Python's suitability for large
programs.  These days, about the only time I /don't/ program in Python
is when I'm hacking on CPython's core. :)

-Barry




From akuchlin at mems-exchange.org  Fri Jan 19 13:31:26 2001
From: akuchlin at mems-exchange.org (Andrew Kuchling)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 13:31:26 -0500
Subject: adding the XML to 2.0 to be a mistake?
In-Reply-To: <3A67BC37.213BAACB@ActiveState.com>; from paulp@activestate.com on Thu, Jan 18, 2001 at 08:01:59PM -0800
References: <mailman.979611383.15529.python-list@python.org> <3d8zocuqrd.fsf@kronos.cnri.reston.va.us> <3A67BC37.213BAACB@ActiveState.com>
Message-ID: <20010119133126.A875@kronos.cnri.reston.va.us>

On Thu, Jan 18, 2001 at 08:01:59PM -0800, Paul Prescod wrote:
>I agree with this. I don't think that minidom should have an existence
>independent of Python. The PyXML minidom should be phased out. The only

That won't work, because the _xmlplus package overrides the xml/
package completely, and therefore has to keep copies of everything in
Python's package, so we're stuck with the duplication.

>I don't know what you mean by saying that PyXML is "tied to Python."
>PyXML depends on Python, just as PIL and NumPy do.

I should have been clearer and said that effectively its release
schedule is tied to Python.  

--amk



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Wed Jan 17 17:55:15 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 23:55:15 +0100
Subject: "Total flattening" of a tuple
References: <WIo96.76570$eB2.6161239@news.infostrada.it>
Message-ID: <9457vn01f5d@news2.newsguy.com>

"Giuseppe Bilotta" <oblomov at freemail.it> wrote in message
news:WIo96.76570$eB2.6161239 at news.infostrada.it...
    [snip]
> Now, I wondered if it was possible to do something like:
>
> packmode = str(len(mylist)) + 'B' # this prepares the packing structure
> result = struct.pack(packmode, flatten(mylist))
>
> where "flatten" would be a command to unpack the sequence mylist,
*without* the external ( ... )
> [that is, tuple(mylist) doesn't work, because it would make the command in
>
> struct.pack(packmode, (tuple))
>
> while the "pack" command wants
>
> struct.pack(packmode, tuple_element_1, tuple_element_2, ...)
>
> (that is, without the external (...) in the tuple).

struct.pack(packmode, *mylist) works in Python 2.0; for older releases,
apply(struct.pack, tuple(mylist)) [I think you can omit the tuple() call,
in some of those older releases, but don't recall exactly -- been a while].


Alex





From fredrik at effbot.org  Fri Jan 12 02:39:26 2001
From: fredrik at effbot.org (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 07:39:26 GMT
Subject: Speed of Python vs. Perl
References: <mailman.979266192.1957.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Owy76.5648$Qb7.787357@newsb.telia.net>

Tim Peters wrote:
> Unless you've got a broken installation, Python shouldn't be spending *any*
> time parsing imported files at startup.

well, isn't "unmarshalling" a form of parsing?

(read token, figure out what it means, update data structure, repeat
until end of data)

note that unmarshal uses lots of getc calls, and we all know what that
means for performance...  how about changing read_compiled_module()
from

    co = PyMarshal_ReadObjectFromFile(fp);

to something like:

    size = getsize(fp)
    if size could be determined, and is less than 200k:
        buf = malloc(size)
        fread(buf, 1, size, fp)
        co = PyMarshal_ReadObjectFromString(buf, size)
        free(buf)
    else:
        co = PyMarshal_ReadObjectFromFile(fp);

Cheers /F




From ivnowa at hvision.nl  Tue Jan  9 04:12:21 2001
From: ivnowa at hvision.nl (Hans Nowak)
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 10:12:21 +0100
Subject: dns reverse look up with python ?
In-Reply-To: <93ecvp$v21$02$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <200101090914.KAA04952@axil.hvision.nl>

On 9 Jan 01, Ralf Claus wrote:

> Hi,
> any suggestion about this theme ?
> Is there a way for me (newbie) ?
> 
> thanks for any suggestion

You mean something like this?

>>> import socket
>>> socket.gethostbyname('www.hvision.nl')
'194.158.183.180'
>>> socket.gethostbyaddr('194.158.183.130')
('axil.hvision.nl', ['popmail.hvision.nl', 'popmail.hvision.nl'], 
['194.158.183.130'])
>>> 

HTH,

--Hans Nowak (ivnowa at hvision.nl)
Info Vision Europe BV



From claird at starbase.neosoft.com  Fri Jan  5 07:10:30 2001
From: claird at starbase.neosoft.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: 5 Jan 2001 06:10:30 -0600
Subject: Graphic innovation (was: Migrating to perl?)
References: <3Fa56.4580$of7.216286@news1.atl> <3A555E34.3E01E4D0@bigfoot.de>
Message-ID: <D93F5A69557422A1.BDF93B78ADFD2C85.86D8957AC9F3CCB1@lp.airnews.net>

In article <3A555E34.3E01E4D0 at bigfoot.de>,
Gerhard =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E4ring?=  <gerhard.nospam at bigfoot.de> wrote:
			.
			.
			.
>be easily interchanged. Should be just like Perl DBI. I haven't done
>very much with Graphics and Python, apart from generating buttons for
>web-pages (I used wxPython for this, an excellent cross-platform GUI
>toolkit). There exist several other Python libraries for graphics, the
			.
			.
			.
wxPython generates buttons for Web pages?  I
don't understand; do you mean you created an
application which dynamically generates inter-
esting buttons, which you then "snapshotted"
to use as HTML IMGs?
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at NeoSoft.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://starbase.neosoft.com/~claird/home.html


From lobozc at my-deja.com  Thu Jan  4 18:15:00 2001
From: lobozc at my-deja.com (lobozc at my-deja.com)
Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 23:15:00 GMT
Subject: jython beta question
Message-ID: <93305c$7ej$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

I just found on the net jython beta - still downloading as I am writing
this. Looks veeery interesting - hence a big question.

I downloaded recently (about one hour ago) www.netbeans.org IDE,
version 3.1 beta. In difference to it's twin sibling, Forte for Java,
NetBeans also has a 'scripting window', which allows you to type some
script code in a three different scripting langauges, JPython being one
of them.

1) How can I use Jython instead of JPython in that window? [I'm used to
list comprehensions :-)]

2) Are there any plans to integrate Jython with NetBeans IDE? [Which
would be very cute, saved plenty of work - but require a lot of work,
too ;-)].


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From nielsenjf at my-deja.com  Thu Jan 18 09:08:25 2001
From: nielsenjf at my-deja.com (John Nielsen)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 14:08:25 GMT
Subject: usage on the time module(newbie)
References: <945neg$72d$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <946tch$3up$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

It depends on what OS you are using. I don't think windows supports
strptime.

However, there are other options.

Since you're new, let's go through the time functions:

time.time() -- gives you seconds :
	979824998.188
time.localtime(time.time()) -- gives you a tuple from seconds:
	(2001, 1, 18, 8, 35, 20, 3, 18, 0)

time.strftime('%d %H %M %S %Y',(2001, 1, 18, 8, 35, 20, 3, 18, 0)) --
	takes the tuple and gives you a date: '18 08 35 20 2001'

time.mktime(2001, 1, 18, 8, 35, 20, 3, 18, 0) -- takes the tuple
and gives you seconds: 979824920.0

What you basically need to do, is convert you date string to a tuple
and then use mktime, to get seconds.

The tuple would be of the format:
(yr,mnth,day,hr,min,sec,weekday,julian,dayling savings)



Hope this helps,


john






In article <945neg$72d$1 at nnrp1.deja.com>,
  fimafeng at my-deja.com wrote:
> Hello:
>
> I'm having difficulty with the syntax for the function strptime
> in the time module
>
> For instance. If I have a variable....
> fred='Mon Jan 15 00:30:24 2001'
>
> what syntax would I use to parse this into a tuple?
> I have tried
> time.strptime(Mon Jan 15 00:30:24 2001[])
> but I receive an error..
>
> I did not see any examples in the documentation.
>
> Any help is greatly appreciated...
> Thanks,
> Chris
> fimafeng at yahoo.com
>
> Sent via Deja.com
> http://www.deja.com/
>

--
nielsenjf at my-Deja.com


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From chaoweilun at my-deja.com  Sun Jan 28 11:24:10 2001
From: chaoweilun at my-deja.com (chaoweilun at my-deja.com)
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 16:24:10 GMT
Subject: Hack request: rational numbers
References: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0101251759070.28148-100000@kev.ioc.ee>
Message-ID: <951h34$tch$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

> that uses similar syntax as in constructing Python complex numbers
> (cf. 3j+4).

Sorry,BTW,could anyone tell me,why the letter "j" is used
to represent complex numbers, but not "i"?


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From vmarkwart at my-deja.com  Thu Jan 18 16:49:52 2001
From: vmarkwart at my-deja.com (vmarkwart at my-deja.com)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 21:49:52 GMT
Subject: Access, Field names, mxODBC
Message-ID: <947ods$uk4$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

Hi,
I'm using the mxODBC.Windows module with an Access database. Can anyone
tell me, or point me to an SQL or other statement which can return the
field names returned from a query.

TIA
Victor


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From thomas.heller at ion-tof.com  Fri Jan 19 09:13:25 2001
From: thomas.heller at ion-tof.com (Thomas Heller)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 15:13:25 +0100
Subject: py2exe - convert python scripts into exe files (windows)
Message-ID: <02cd01c08221$fcf32a20$e000a8c0@thomasnotebook>

I've created a distutils extension to convert python scripts
into standalone windows executable files.
You end up with an exe-file as well as pythonxx.dll
plus some .pyd's.

This is more or less a rewrite of Gordon's installer project.

Homepage: http://starship.python.net/crew/theller/py2exe/

Compatibility: Python 1.5 or later.

License: BSD

Regards,

Thomas Heller





From sholden at holdenweb.com  Tue Jan 16 18:45:44 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 18:45:44 -0500
Subject: Relational Databases and Python
References: <mailman.979589896.32678.python-list@python.org> <slrn96950d.2hn.ssthapa@ntcs-ip45.uchicago.edu>
Message-ID: <J6596.1085$DI.17491@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>

<ssthapa at harper.uchicago.edu> wrote in message
news:slrn96950d.2hn.ssthapa at ntcs-ip45.uchicago.edu...
> glinds - Greg Lindstrom <glinds at acxiom.com> wrote:
> >* What relational database to use?  I am constructing a routine to
> >track incident reports for the volunteer fire department I run with.  I
also
> >want to track personnel information, training records, equipment, etc.
It
> >will be a small to medium database (the databases I work with
professionally
> >run in the terabytes, but we spend millions on software).  I am looking
at
> >MySQL.  Whatever base I use must be free.
>
>     I suggest using postgresql instead.  I think mysql has limitations
such
> as not allowing subselects, foreign keys, and similar things that might
bite
> you latter on. Also I think that until recently mysql didn't have all the
ACID
> properties (it recently added transactions so it may have it now).
>
MySQL does appear very limited.

My reading of the PostgreSQL web site leads me to believe you'll be
"limited" to UNIX platforms, I can't remember far enough back in the thread
to determine whether this matters or not.

regards
 Steve




From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Tue Jan 16 12:10:59 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 18:10:59 +0100
Subject: [ANNOUNCE] FreeImage 2.0.0 out!
References: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0101161858200.20622-100000@fep132.fep.ru> <mailman.979662981.18790.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <941vee0k7s@news1.newsguy.com>

"Moshe Zadka" <moshez at zadka.site.co.il> wrote in message
news:mailman.979662981.18790.python-list at python.org...
    [snip]
> > > It compiles only with MSVC++6.0, yet works on Windows and Linux (??)
> >    It compiles on Linux, but not on *BSD? :))) Cannot believe it. :)
> Simple: *BSD doesn't have MSVC++6.0

And Linux does...?!


Alex





From tong at aristotech.com  Mon Jan  8 17:55:01 2001
From: tong at aristotech.com (Siu-Tong Hui)
Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2001 14:55:01 -0800
Subject: Can we in python code, catch exception generated by C++ pythonized 
 function?
Message-ID: <3A5A4545.661385AD@aristotech.com>

I tried and it won't. Anybody have any workaround for that? Any pointer
is appreciated. Thanks.

Regards,

Tong



From will at nospam.misconception.org.uk  Tue Jan  9 23:01:38 2001
From: will at nospam.misconception.org.uk (Will Newton)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 04:01:38 +0000
Subject: Short time notification
Message-ID: <93gmsa$hoq$1@news5.svr.pol.co.uk>

I'm implementing a text entry system that requires to know when a key is 
pressed more than once in a time interval (~3 seconds).

So I have an event loop:

while 1: # Or whatever you care to call it
        k = readKey()
        processKey(k)

But I need to adapt this to return a different k if the same key is pressed 
more than once in the time interval.

What is the best way to do this in Python?
 


From justin at iago.org  Mon Jan 29 01:46:15 2001
From: justin at iago.org (Justin Sheehy)
Date: 29 Jan 2001 01:46:15 -0500
Subject: . Python 2.1 function attributes
In-Reply-To: "Tim Peters"'s message of "Sun, 28 Jan 2001 00:40:26 -0500"
References: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCAEMIILAA.tim.one@home.com>
Message-ID: <87itmyetzc.fsf@kitchen.iago.org>

"Tim Peters" <tim.one at home.com> writes:

> "print >>"

> would-be-more-impressed-by-the-damnation-of-people-who've-actually-
>     tried-it-ly y'rs  - tim

I've actually tried it, and I don't like it.

When 2.0 started to approach release time, I made a point of using the
new features in new code in cases where the program wouldn't have to
run anywhere other than my own workstation.  (That restriction was
caused by the fact that it is non-trivial for me to get a new Python
version onto all of the machines that I care about.)

My thoughts on a few of the notable new features:

 - list comprehensions

   Very well done.  I don't find myself using them very often yet, but 
   I approve of these both conceptually and in Python's implementation.

   I suspect that once 2.0 becomes as ubiquitous as 1.5.x, I will
   begin to use these more heavily.  That might depend on whether
   their speed improves.  I'm not sure, since I haven't used them
   enough yet to determine if that will be a bottleneck for me.

 - augmented assignment

   Overall, I am glad this made it in.  Sometimes, it is more
   convenient and more clear than (e.g.) a = a + b.  I recognize the huge
   value of augmented assignment in certain situations (such as large
   matrices in Numeric).  However, I think that there is another side
   to this.

   The varying-behavior-depending-on-mutability aspect of += (which is
   necessary for it to be useful) is likely to cause some confusion.
   Admittedly, the ones most confused will probably be the ones that
   don't quickly grok Python's name, assignment and reference models.

   The fact that += sometimes acts like = but sometimes acts
   like a method call seems like a flaw to me.  Since I can't think of 
   a better way to solve the problem, I'll shut up about it now.

 - print >>

   Ugly.  Really ugly.

   Perhaps I don't count, though, since I didn't use the print
   statement very much before anyway.  I tend to only use "print" either
   for crude debugging or for simple scripts.  For most output I use
   fd.write() with heavy applciation of the %s format character.

   I tried using the new print statement, though.  I found that while
   it made some code shorter, it also made it look (to my eyes) less
   Pythonic.  Using a series of special characters in order to save a few
   lines of space seems more like something done by That Other P Language,
   and less like something that meets with Python's usual simplicity
   and explicitness.

   I know it won't change now.  I don't hate it enough to try to
   demand that it be excised, in any case.  But I also know that I
   don't expect to use it in anything I write anytime soon.

 damnation?-you-asked-for-it-you-got-it-ly y'rs

-Justin

 




From mfletch at tpresence.com  Wed Jan 10 18:20:57 2001
From: mfletch at tpresence.com (Mike Fletcher)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 18:20:57 -0500
Subject: default arguments newbie question
Message-ID: <CC59868A0A76D311B1F50090277B321C1F379D@VRTMAIL>

To expand on that "fundamental types" qualification...

class NULL:
    def __cmp__( self, other ):
        if other:
           return -1
        else:
           return 0

Will break the assumption that x == None means x is None.  That is, NULLs
will equate to any "false" value, including None, but would not match with
an "is" test.  Not really important for the original questioner, but oh well
:o) , digressions are part of Pythonic culture.

Enjoy,
Mike



-----Original Message-----
From: Erik Max Francis
To: python-list at python.org
Sent: 1/10/2001 4:37 PM
Subject: Re: default arguments newbie question

Aahz Maruch wrote:
...
Eh?  I don't see that.  Any value which is not None will compare unequal
to None, correct?  Certainly this true for the fundamental types like
strings, numbers, tuples, and lists:
...



From kbryd at losthighway._nospam_eu.org  Tue Jan 30 07:34:58 2001
From: kbryd at losthighway._nospam_eu.org (Karol Bryd)
Date: 30 Jan 2001 13:34:58 +0100
Subject: slow joinings of strings
Message-ID: <87ofwpnrpp.fsf@losthighway.ahoj.pl>

       Hi!

I want to read a file (0.6MB, 10000 lines) into memory, and want to do it as
fast as possible, this code does it, but is terribly slow

fp = open(file, 'r')
s = ''
while 1:
        line = fp.readline()
        if line == '': break
        s = s + line

(executing time 25 sec)

At first I thought that this is caused by readline() and lack of buffering
but after removing "s = s + line" executing time decreased to 0.7 seconds!
The question is how to join two strings in a more efficient way?

Regards.
-- 
       ------------------- Karol Bryd ------------------
   ---------------- http://int.gnu.org.pl ------------------


From pbjorn at uswest.net  Mon Jan  1 13:30:48 2001
From: pbjorn at uswest.net (Bjorn Pettersen)
Date: Mon, 01 Jan 2001 11:30:48 -0700
Subject: Recursive inner function... How?
References: <3A4FA0EF.BF94F4BD@uswest.net> <Oq_36.3045$Qb7.341122@newsb.telia.net>
Message-ID: <3A50CCD8.90E48CB@uswest.net>

Thanks Fredrik!

Fredrik Lundh wrote:

> Bjorn Pettersen wrote:
> > however, in 2.0 that gives an "UnboundLocalError: Local variable 'inner'
> > referenced before assignment".
>
> in this case, the assignment is done by "def":
>
> >     def outer():
> >         def inner(inner=inner <- reference):
> >             inner()
> >         <- assignment statement ends here
> >         inner()
> >
> >     outer()
> >
>
> > Please tell me I'm doing something wrong?
>
> you're trying to use recursive inner functions ;-)

I figured that was the root cause <wink>

> the easiest fix is to do as Guido intended, and move
> "inner" to the global scope.  you can either move the
> entire function to the right place, or cheat:
>
>     def outer():
>         global inner
>         def inner():
>             inner()
>         inner()
>
>     outer()

This is so cute I just had to use it -- I'm the only one using this code, so
at least I'm only shooting myself in the foot (outer is really a method in a
longish class, so I would prefer to keep inner textually close). It isn't
immediately clear to me what is going on though... My guess is that the global
statement creates an entry in the global dict, and the def inner assigns a new
value to it... (am I close?)

-- bjorn




From justinhj at hotmail.com  Thu Jan 18 19:02:41 2001
From: justinhj at hotmail.com (JustinHJ)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 16:02:41 -0800
Subject: importing classes from a variable
Message-ID: <t6f17dps6c4d87@corp.supernews.com>

Could anyone offer any advice on the following problem. What I have is a
python program that takes a file and does something to it by calling member
functions in a class. To seperate the code that does the export from the
main program, what I wanted to do is to be able to go from a text string
name of the export process....

str = 'export_1'

and do the equivalent of

import 'export_1'

exportclass = export1.Export.DoExport

So in case that's not clear I want to be able to import modules in a class
without knowing their name until runtime, then use the module name as a
variable.EG:

export_string = 'export_1'

import export_string # this doesn't work

export_string.Export # this doesn't work either






From moshez at zadka.site.co.il  Sat Jan 13 10:48:13 2001
From: moshez at zadka.site.co.il (Moshe Zadka)
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 17:48:13 +0200 (IST)
Subject: Python language suggestion
In-Reply-To: <93l4ve$no3$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
References: <93l4ve$no3$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <20010113154813.2F5A5A828@darjeeling.zadka.site.co.il>

On Thu, 11 Jan 2001 20:27:39 GMT, Chris Ryland <cpr at emsoftware.com> wrote:
> This migh sound radical, but has anyone ever entertained the idea that
> foo.'bar bletch' might be a useful and logical extension of Python's
> current attribute selection machinery?
> 
> I realize that foo['bar bletch'] is just as good for dictionary-like
> objects, but foo.'bar bletch' 

getattr(foo, 'bar bletch') works in Python.

-- 
Moshe Zadka <sig at zadka.site.co.il>
This is a signature anti-virus. 
Please stop the spread of signature viruses!



From dsh8290 at rit.edu  Wed Jan 24 22:03:46 2001
From: dsh8290 at rit.edu (D-Man)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 22:03:46 -0500
Subject: How to get shell screen out from python?
In-Reply-To: <3A6F89E8.F3629152@nd.edu>; from cxu1@nd.edu on Wed, Jan 24, 2001 at 09:05:28PM -0500
References: <3A6F89E8.F3629152@nd.edu>
Message-ID: <20010124220345.A28564@harmony.cs.rit.edu>

On Wed, Jan 24, 2001 at 09:05:28PM -0500, Changsen Xu wrote:
| Hi,
| 
| Now I wish to get the output from running a shell command, I
| can't find an easy way in python but use pipe:
|     p=popen('lp *.ps'); t=p.read(); p.close()

This could be written as :

t = popen( "lp *.ps" ).read()

or you could make a function to do that:

def pipe_read( command ) :
	return popen( command ).read()

then call it :

t = pipe_read( "lp *.ps" )

| 
| while in tcsh, it may just be:
|     set t =  `lp *.ps`

It is common for shell scripting languages to execute external
programs rather than implement things in the shell itself.  Perl has
this backtick syntax for executing an external command.

| 
| Any of you can teach me an easier way in python ?
| 
| Thanks,
| 

HTH,
-D




From trentm at ActiveState.com  Mon Jan  8 13:24:44 2001
From: trentm at ActiveState.com (Trent Mick)
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 10:24:44 -0800
Subject: How do I print useful errors with getopt?
In-Reply-To: <d8f939.roa.ln@127.0.0.1>; from gradha@iname.com on Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 11:09:17AM +0100
References: <d8f939.roa.ln@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <20010108102444.J5768@ActiveState.com>

On Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 11:09:17AM +0100, gradha at iname.com wrote:
> Hi.
> 
> Coming from the C world, I got a try at the python getopt module. It works
> nicely, but there are is something I miss: when the user supplies a wrong
> switch combination, I miss getopt reporting the specific error. I can of
> course catch getopt.error, but how can I print to the user what triggered
> the error? Under C it was as easy as not touching opterr: the system would
> then print the conflict in the appropiate localized text.
> 
> I am running Debian Potato with Python 1.5.2, if it's of any use to you.


Here is what I do:


    import sys, getopt

    try:
        optlist, args = getopt.getopt(sys.argv[1:], 'vf:', ['verbose'])
    except getopt.GetoptError, msg:
        sys.stderr.write("error in options: %s\n" % msg)
        sys.exit(1)
    for opt,optarg in optlist:
        if opt in ('-v', '--verbose'):
            verbosity = 1
        elif ...
    ...



Regards,
Trent


-- 
Trent Mick
TrentM at ActiveState.com



From cjc26 at nospam.cornell.edu  Fri Jan 26 13:07:22 2001
From: cjc26 at nospam.cornell.edu (Cliff Crawford)
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 18:07:22 GMT
Subject: SourceForge problems
References: <mailman.980510689.2616.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <u1jc6.59037$ju6.5637136@typhoon.nyroc.rr.com>

* Tim Peters <tim.one at home.com> menulis:
| 
| don't-even-try-discussing-hot-steaming-faggots<wink>-ly y'rs - tim

I think you really need to explain what the above means, before
the PSU d


From emile at fenx.com  Wed Jan 24 06:14:03 2001
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 03:14:03 -0800
Subject: Conspiracy Revealed
References: <mailman.980331421.18849.python-list@python.org> <mAyb6.9009$Qb7.1276386@newsb.telia.net>
Message-ID: <94mdf9$dt4tk$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>

"Fredrik Lundh" <fredrik at effbot.org> wrote in message
news:mAyb6.9009$Qb7.1276386 at newsb.telia.net...
> anonymous at zadka.site.co.il (doubt you'll need Don Foster
> to figure out who hides behind this nom de guerre) wrote:
>
> > Tim is actually an alien intelegience, capable of taking
over people's
> > minds
>
> he's pure software.  part lisp, part python.
>
> > Alex Martelli came into c.l.py and started to write
scarily-timbot-like
> > postings
>
> same software, different verbosity settings (this one
> goes to eleven)
>
>

Ha Ha Ha Ha.  Look at that, the effbot's got a sense of
humor! ;-)

At-least-I hope-that's-humor-ly y'rs

--

Emile van Sebille
emile at fenx.com
-------------------





From jerryleekeeney at yahoo.com  Sat Jan 27 23:07:57 2001
From: jerryleekeeney at yahoo.com (jerry keeney)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 20:07:57 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Newbie Tkinter question
Message-ID: <20010128040757.7100.qmail@web9610.mail.yahoo.com>

The following little program is giving me some
problems.

The problem is with self.button2.  When this part of
code is commented out, the program works.  When I
uncomment it out, like here:  I get an invalid syntax
error for 
self.button2.grid(row=1,column=1)

What obvious thing am I missing here?



# File: hello2.py

from Tkinter import *

class App:

    def __init__(self, master):

        
        self.button = Button(text="QUIT", fg="red")
        self.button.grid(row=0,column=0)

        self.hi_there = Button(text=
                        "Hello",command=self.say_hi) 
        self.hi_there.grid(row=0,column=1)
	
        self.button2 = Button(text="test", fg="red")
	self.button2.grid(row=1,column=1)
		  	   	    
    def say_hi(self):
        print "hi there, everyone!"

root = Tk()

app = App(root)

root.mainloop()




__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. 
http://auctions.yahoo.com/



From johann at physics.berkeley.edu  Mon Jan 22 16:46:05 2001
From: johann at physics.berkeley.edu (Johann Hibschman)
Date: 22 Jan 2001 13:46:05 -0800
Subject: Newbie Question
References: <980192858.449719@iris.nyx.net>
Message-ID: <mtzogjp8f6.fsf@astron.berkeley.edu>

sarayu balu writes:

>  I just downloaded pygtk-0.6.6 and installed it.
> On trying the examples, I am getting an error-
> ImportError: /usr/local/lib/python2.0/site-packages/
> _gtkModule.so: undefined symbol: g_thread_init .
> I have no clue as to what's going on, is it a gtk
> library problem, or python2.0 problem ?

Which version of gtk/glib are you using?  I'm using python 2.0 with
gtk 1.2.6 and 1.2.8 without problem, using pygtk-0.6.6.

-- 
Johann Hibschman                           johann at physics.berkeley.edu


From aahz at panix.com  Thu Jan  4 11:05:47 2001
From: aahz at panix.com (Aahz Maruch)
Date: 4 Jan 2001 08:05:47 -0800
Subject: Use of threading.Condition class
References: <mailman.978611884.20920.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <93270r$7a9$1@panix6.panix.com>

In article <mailman.978611884.20920.python-list at python.org>,
 <vonWedel at lfpt.rwth-aachen.de> wrote:
>
>I'm trying to pass data between threads A and B. A notifies B to produce 
>something 
>and now I want the reference to the produced instance back in thread A. 
>The documentation for threading.Condition proposes something like
>
>     # Consume one item
>     cv.acquire()
>     while not an_item_is_available():
>         cv.wait()
>     get_an_available_item()
>     cv.release()
>
>for the consumer side. I don't understand the while loop around
>the cv.wait() statement -- wouldn't cv.wait() block anyway until 
>cv.notify() has been called in the other thread?

According to the book I've been using, you do this because the condition
might get triggered when an item is not available (most likely because
you're sharing the condition across multiple consumer threads).
-- 
                      --- Aahz (Copyright 2000 by aahz at pobox.com)

Androgynous poly kinky vanilla queer het    <*>     http://www.rahul.net/aahz/
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6

"This is Usenet.  We're all masturbating in public places."  -DH


From t at chabry.caltech.edu  Mon Jan  8 00:46:06 2001
From: t at chabry.caltech.edu (Titus Brown)
Date: 7 Jan 2001 21:46:06 -0800
Subject: Web devel with python. Whats the best route?
References: <mailman.978928689.19079.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <93bk6u$k3l$1@chabry.caltech.edu>

In article <mailman.978928689.19079.python-list at python.org>,
Chris Watson  <chris at voodooland.net> wrote:
>On Sun, 7 Jan 2001, Sam Penrose wrote:
>
>> 0) PyApache appears defunct and leaks memory under RedHat Linux 6.
>> 
>> 1) The easiest way might well be CGI. Intel Linux boxes hold up very 
>> well on CGI; a PIII/SCSI server with plenty of RAM can comfortably 
>> handle tens of thousands of CGI hits a day.
>
>	Yea I am looking at just plain vanilla CGI too. Tens of thousands
>isnt that much. Millions yes, tens no :) I am looking into the cgi lib
>though. It looks like it might have a use. I dunno im still looking at the
>options. Thanks for the input! I appreciate it.

Combine your CGI with PyWX, http://pywx.idyll.org/.

--titus


From MarkH at ActiveState.com  Tue Jan  2 09:38:47 2001
From: MarkH at ActiveState.com (Mark Hammond)
Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2001 14:38:47 GMT
Subject: Embedding Python in Windows Applications
References: <3a4e28bf.16852652@news.t-online.de> <3A4E7BC4.8040101@ActiveState.com> <3a4f4581.27327344@news.t-online.de>
Message-ID: <3A51E6DD.200@ActiveState.com>

Gerson Kurz wrote:

> Thanks, but how would you do that ? For starters, I have tried the
> following test code (in your excellent PythonWin):
> 
> -----------------------------------------------
> import sys
> 
> class myclass:
>     def __init__(self):
>         self.file = open("D:\\test.log","w")
>     
>     def write(self,str):       
>         self.file.write(str)
> 
>     def __del__(self):
>         self.file.close()
> 
> old_stdout = sys.stdout
> sys.stdout = myclass()
> print "Hello, world"
> sys.stdout = old_stdout
> print "Done."
> -----------------------------------------------
> 
> Now, as expected the first print statement will write to the file,
> BUT, the second statement will raise an IO Error.

That is exactly what we expect - this discussion started because your 
"old_stdout" was invalid in the first place.  As you demonstrate, you 
can override it, but in your specific example, there is no need to 
restore it.

Mark.



From mfletch at tpresence.com  Tue Jan 16 15:32:51 2001
From: mfletch at tpresence.com (Mike Fletcher)
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 15:32:51 -0500
Subject: using __init__ with params ( somewhat long )
Message-ID: <CC59868A0A76D311B1F50090277B321C1E1467@VRTMAIL>

class Convenient: # untested, of course
	# lower(attribute) to (realAttr, realValue)
	# you can do this at run-time instead, that's
	# left as an exercise for the reader...
	classAttributes = {
		'myattr1': ('myAttr1',None),
		'myattr2': ('myAttr2', 2),
		'myattr3': ('myPiAttr', 3.1416),
	}
	def __init__( self, **namedarguments ):
		# work with a copy of the attribute defns
		base = self.classAttributes.copy()
		# now update base from the passed args
		for key, value in namedarguments.items():
			# case-folding
			testkey = string.lower(key)
			# hack to be _sure_ we don't have
			# this key defaulting to None
			NULL = ()
			if base.get( testkey, NULL) is not NULL:
				base[testkey] = base[testkey][0], value
			else:
				# warn the user here! 
				raise AttributeError( 'Unknown attribute
name %s for Convenient object'%(key))
				pass
		# now actually update the instance, note that
		# we could have used self.__dict__.update if we'd
		# used the "realName" values as keys and the
		# realValue values as the whole value.  Oh well...
		for key, (realName, realValue) in base.items():
			setattr( self, realName, realValue )

I personally would skip the dictionary as a dictionary argument (you get
into "which dictionary should override if they have the same name"
questions, and people can use apply if they really need it).  If you want to
use it, just call namedarguments.update( yourdict ) (or
yourdict.update(namedarguments)) and you're off to the races.

HTH,
Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: corey at axcelerant.com [mailto:corey at axcelerant.com]
Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2001 2:19 PM
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: using __init__ with params ( somewhat long )


Greetings all!


I'm new to Python ( from 5 odd years of Perl ), so please bare with 
me...  

...
1 - Allow a dictionary to be passed to __init__, containing as keys
    some or all of the attributes, along with their values of course.
...
2 - And/or allow named arguments to be passed into __init__, one
    for each attribute.
...



From smibr at my-deja.com  Tue Jan 23 23:45:57 2001
From: smibr at my-deja.com (smibr at my-deja.com)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 04:45:57 GMT
Subject: PIL Example
References: <94km7t$caq$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <oilb6.8447$AH6.1364119@newsc.telia.net>
Message-ID: <94lmm5$98n$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

Current code looks like this:

#!/usr/bin/env python
# example: Draw a Grey Cross Over an Image

import Image, ImageDraw

print Image.VERSION

im = Image.open("lena.ppm")

draw = ImageDraw.Draw(im)
draw.line((0,0),im.size, fill=128)
draw.line((0,im.size[1]),(im.size[0],0), fill=128)
del draw

# write to stdout
im.save('TEST.png', "PNG")

This is the output:
[smibr at localhost Images]$ imagetest.py
1.0.1
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/home/smibr/bin/imagetest.py", line 11, in ?
    draw.line((0,0),im.size, fill=128)
TypeError: keyword parameter redefined: fill
[smibr at localhost Images]$ imagetest.py
1.0.1
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/home/smibr/bin/imagetest.py", line 11, in ?
    draw.line((0,0),im.size, fill=128)
TypeError: keyword parameter redefined: fill
[smibr at localhost Images]$

I guess upgrading would help. When I run it on the Windows 95 box at
work it runs just fine. I still wonder about the traceback though.


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From fredrik at effbot.org  Thu Jan 18 16:37:59 2001
From: fredrik at effbot.org (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 21:37:59 GMT
Subject: Slicing and offsets
References: <945bvp$thj$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <XmJ96.7165$Qb7.1061230@newsb.telia.net>

gustabares at my-deja.com wrote:
> I got a newbie question here...
>
> >>> S = "spam"
> >>> S[0]
> 's'
> >>> S[1:]
> 'pam'
> >>>
>
> Why is it that when I slice S it's no longer the 0 offset anymore, but
> now it is 1?

Think character boundaries, not character cells.

    0   1   2   3   4
    | s | p | a | m |

The first character sits between boundary 0 and 1, the
second between 1 and 2, etc.

If you use simple indexing, you're asking for the character
just to the right of boundary 0.  If you're slicing, you'll
get whatever's between the given boundaries.

Hope this helps!

Cheers /F

<!-- (the eff-bot guide to) the standard python library:
http://www.pythonware.com/people/fredrik/librarybook.htm
-->







From tismer at tismer.com  Tue Jan 30 05:18:29 2001
From: tismer at tismer.com (Christian Tismer)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 12:18:29 +0200
Subject: Stackless 2.0 RPMs
Message-ID: <3A7694F5.1FAB43CA@tismer.com>

Dear Stackless Python users,

Stackless Python has RPM's for various SuSE Linux versions.

Many thanks to Bernd Rinn who provided this.

The archives can be found at http://www.stackless.com/rpm/

The website will be updated after the current buglist is resolved,
and the RPMs will be rebuilt then.

cheers - chris(tless)

-- 
Christian Tismer             :^)   <mailto:tismer at tismer.com>
Mission Impossible 5oftware  :     Have a break! Take a ride on Python's
Kaunstr. 26                  :    *Starship* http://starship.python.net
14163 Berlin                 :     PGP key -> http://wwwkeys.pgp.net
PGP Fingerprint       E182 71C7 1A9D 66E9 9D15  D3CC D4D7 93E2 1FAE F6DF
     where do you want to jump today?   http://www.stackless.com



From pj at sgi.com  Fri Jan 26 21:38:39 2001
From: pj at sgi.com (Paul Jackson)
Date: 27 Jan 2001 02:38:39 GMT
Subject: c(++)python?
References: <3A71EB9C.D258C1C0@comm.mot.com>
Message-ID: <94tcbf$4jqth$1@fido.engr.sgi.com>

|> Why is the most popular implementation of python in C? A novice
|> programmer (like myself) might think:  "python is itself an
|> object-oriented language, so it would make sense to implement it in
|> another object-oriented language."
|> 
|> Is this in fact the case, or was c++ not standardized/mature enough
|> when python first came out?

Back around 1989, when Python started, C was far more
portable and well suited to serious internals work
than C++.  Perhaps the most widely used C++ compiler
of the time was cfront, which was a fancy frontend to
the C compiler.

Even today, C might be the implementation language
of choice for a Python-like language, because it is
well known, broadly implemented, suitable for code
that will run on even small platforms, and in the
right hands, delivers tight performance.

The "object-oriented" nature of Python, as a language,
has only modest impact on the choice of implementation
language.

<flagrant opinion>
C++ is big, too big for my tastes.
Translation:
    After several years of studying the language, and writing a
    couple of major applications in it, I still don't feel like
    I've mastered C++ .  Whereas I felt like I had seriously
    mastered C inside of one year of learning and use.
</flagrant opinion>
-- 
                          I won't rest till it's the best ...
                          Manager, Linux System Software
                          Paul Jackson <pj at sgi.com> 1.650.933.1373


From martin.franklin at westerngeco.com  Fri Jan 26 02:37:33 2001
From: martin.franklin at westerngeco.com (Martin Franklin)
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 07:37:33 +0000
Subject: Help for DCOracle examples
References: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0101201422310.13495-100000@fep132.fep.ru> <3A6A415B.D83D6173@cnri.reston.va.us> <t6r9s7thmn2256@corp.supernews.com> <3A70765B.637ADDCE@agyinc.com>
Message-ID: <3A71293D.5EDA28AE@westerngeco.com>

If this is Linux /UNIX

When running a a CGI script you may not have the enviroment variables
set
such as ORACLE_SID and ORACLE_HOME plus others like LD_LIBRARY_PATH etc.
to set these you will have to user os.environ see the docs.

Martin.

Joe Murray wrote:
> 
> On a related DCOracle note...
> 
> I am having problems Connecting to a database using DCOracle from a
> Python CGI script.  I get the following error in my httpd logs:
> 
> OCI_ERROR at oci_8.c:275
> Error while trying to retrieve text for error ORA-12545
> 
> A code snippet follows:
> 
>     try:
>         db = DCOracle.Connect('oracleuser/oraclepassword')
>         return HTMLgen.Paragraph('Connected to DB.')
>     except:
>         return HTMLgen.Paragraph('Connection to DB DENIED!')
> 
> Peculiar thing follows:
> 
> Script works from command line (ie, connects to OracleDB no problem).
> But not via browser... hmmm.  Is there some permissions problem I'm
> missing?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> joe
> 
> Jose Martin wrote:
> >
> > import Buffer, oci_, sys <===   Error     Must Import DCOracle
> > dbc=Connect("weiming/weiming")
> > c=dbc.cursor()
> > --------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > try this...
> >
> > import DCOracle
> > dbc=DCOracle.Connect(connectstring)
> >
> > cur=dbc.cursor()
> >
> > cur.execute('SELECT TABLE_NAME FROM TABS')
> > res=cur.fetchall()
> >
> > for table in res:
> >         print table[0]
> >
> > --
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 
> --
> Joseph Murray
> Bioinformatics Specialist, AGY Therapeutics
> 290 Utah Avenue, South San Francisco, CA 94080
> (650) 228-1146
> 
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

-- 
Martin Franklin Interactive Software Support
Tel. Work 01234 224793, (Ext. 4793)
Western Geco, Manton Lane, Bedford, MK41 7PA
martin.franklin at westerngeco.com



From jasonic at nomadicsltd.com  Tue Jan  2 18:40:01 2001
From: jasonic at nomadicsltd.com (Jason Cunliffe)
Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2001 18:40:01 -0500
Subject: Which Python homesite to refer people to ?
References: <t54m15jjlqs310@corp.supernews.com> <mailman.978476342.25102.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <t54pgq9da9gn5d@corp.supernews.com>

D-Man <dsh8290 at rit.edu> wrote in message
news:mailman.978476342.25102.python-list at python.org...

> > Since the Python Y2K upheavals = CNRI->BeOpen->DigitalCreations...Is
this
> > still true?
>
> Yes, this is the URL.  The difference is where the computer that the
> URL refers to has changed, but not the URL.

Clearly - but at the time the core dev team moved to BeOpen, it was no as
simple as that for l.e.g.a.l.&.c.o.n.t.r.a.c.t reasons
For awhile they had a clone of www.python.org hosted at BeOpen which
confused the !#@$ out of everyone as I remember.

To rephrase my question -

a:- Have the Python domain ownership issues now been sorted?

b:- Is www.python.org site back, legit, holy and in caring hands?

c:- Who is maintaining it?

- Jason




From dnew at san.rr.com  Thu Jan 18 12:53:30 2001
From: dnew at san.rr.com (Darren New)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 17:53:30 GMT
Subject: Slicing and offsets
References: <945bvp$thj$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <3A672D9B.6E71F709@san.rr.com>

gustabares at my-deja.com wrote:
> Why is it that when I slice S it's no longer the 0 offset anymore, but
> now it is 1?

I'm not sure I understand the question, but I'm guessing this might be the
answer:

You don't "slice S". Instead, you're asking for a slice of S. Unlike pie,
this doesn't change S. Slicing is a function that gives back a new and
different string that's independent of what you sliced.

-- 
Darren New / Senior MTS & Free Radical / Invisible Worlds Inc.
San Diego, CA, USA (PST).  Cryptokeys on demand.
"It says this wine has syphilis."
               "I think that's pronounced `sulphates'."


From sune-news at mel.Interspace.dk  Mon Jan 29 16:29:29 2001
From: sune-news at mel.Interspace.dk (Sune Kirkeby)
Date: 29 Jan 2001 22:29:29 +0100
Subject: . Python 2.1 function attributes
References: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0101271303540.3501-100000@y.glue.umd.edu> <Pine.GSO.4.21.0101271158190.3501-100000@y.glue.umd.edu> <Pine.GSO.4.21.0101270135190.7677-100000@y.glue.umd.edu> <mailman.980593892.725.python-list@python.org> <$5A+ZwAGjtc6EwE0@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <14962.62953.304511.523826@anthem.wooz.org> <mailman.980613639.23439.python-list@python.org> <mailman.980617472.28020.python-list@python.org> <mailman.980621252.32649.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87lmrukpxi.fsf@sune.interspace.dk>

[Roy Katz]
> Let's add bless().  I want to change the class of an object at
> runtime.

[ Moshe Zadka <moshez at zadka.site.co.il> ]
> You can already do this, and have been able to a long time.
> 
> foo.__class__ = new_class
> 
> Why would anyone want a new builtin for that?

Why would anyone want the syntactic (sp?) sugar that "print >>" is?

Probably because it's both simpler to use and easier to understand.

I would think you would understand that  ;-)

-- 
Sune Kirkeby                          Test-tube babies shouldn't throw stones.
http://mel.interspace.dk/~sune/


From sholden at holdenweb.com  Wed Jan  3 11:35:43 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2001 11:35:43 -0500
Subject: time.mktime bug in 2.0?
References: <92vi86$7cp$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <vzI46.1936$ha7.238740@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com>

<wmiller34 at my-deja.com> wrote in message news:92vi86$7cp$1 at nnrp1.deja.com...
> I'm getting this "TypeError" when I use mktime in 2.0.  It works in
> 1.52.  Any ideas?
>
> >>> import time
> >>> t = time.mktime(1999,12,21,0,0,0,0,0,0)
> Traceback (innermost last):
>   File "<interactive input>", line 1, in ?
> TypeError: mktime requires exactly 1 argument; 9 given
>
>
> -Walter

Are you sure you aren't missing an extra set of parentheses?  The
documentation says time.mktime should take a 9-tuple as its argument:

>>> import time
>>> time.mktime((1999,12,21,0,0,0,0,0,0))
945752400.0
>>>

I don't have my 1.5.2 handy to check what actually happened with that.

regards
 Steve






From embed at NO_SPAM_PLEASE.geocities.com  Wed Jan 10 12:18:57 2001
From: embed at NO_SPAM_PLEASE.geocities.com (Warren Postma)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 12:18:57 -0500
Subject: Should I join the PSA if it's "no longer relevant"?
References: <e6K66.1478$Oe.8826@tor-nn1.netcom.ca> <t5mvkjd31cvh98@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <MlG76.2472$Oe.12809@tor-nn1.netcom.ca>

"Lyle Johnson" <ljohnson at resgen.com> wrote in message
news:t5mvkjd31cvh98 at corp.supernews.com...
> This is not a direct answer to your question, but if you're just looking
for
> website & other development-related hosting for an open source project you
> might consider SourceForge:

Hmm. What I really want is for the content to be located exactly where
someone would look for it, Ie, that they will find it, if they go to
www.python.org and go to the search page. Since there is a "search starship"
option, and I can get linked in the Vaults, as well as maybe even a link
from www.python.org, I figured, why put it anywhere farther away from the
"home" site than I have to.

Thus, starship seems like the "right" place.  Sourceforge is nice, for
collaborative development, if we get a core of ETS developers contributing,
I would consider moving the project there. For now, it's just "not the right
fit".

Warren







From Patrick.Bussi at space.alcatel.fr  Tue Jan  2 06:55:31 2001
From: Patrick.Bussi at space.alcatel.fr (Patrick.Bussi at space.alcatel.fr)
Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2001 12:55:31 +0100
Subject: (no subject)
Message-ID: <C12569C8.0041DDA9.00@vzmta01.netfr.alcatel.fr>

Hello. Happy new Year.

Basically, my need is to use the "seek" method on data retrieved from an URL.
The Python Reference Manual indicates that this method cannot be used directly
after opening the URL with urllib. Therefore I (unsuccessfully) tried other
ways.

---- First, I tried the extended form of the "print" statement, after carefully
reading the 6.6 of Python Reference Manual.

The interpreter replied the following :

    print >> indexpage, f1.read
             ^
SyntaxError: invalid syntax

where :
"indexpage" was a "true" file opened with "w" parameter, before the occurrence
of this statement,
"f1" was the network object obtained by the urllib.urlopen() function.

---- Second, I tried to use :

"urllib.urlretrieve()", which do NOT seem to accept any optional argument after
the hook argument, although 11.3 of Python Library Reference explains it should
accept.

---- Third, I used :

"urllib._urlopener.retrieve" object, which accepts optional data. But my data is
a dictionnary and the interpreter seems to consider that he gets too many
arguments (typically 5 instead of the 4 expected, when my data set is composed
of 2 : {'tag1':value1,'tag2':value2} )

---- Fourth :

pickle does not work onto Network object :-(

May be I am far from understanding something basic. I apologize in this case.
Of course I could try to avoid use of "seek" method, but I would have to rewrite
a function that works well on "ordinary" files.

Thankyou for any help.

Patrick Bussi  -- very recent Pythonist
-------------------------------------------------------







From bobhicks at adelphia.net  Sat Jan 20 11:44:31 2001
From: bobhicks at adelphia.net (Robert L Hicks)
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 16:44:31 GMT
Subject: Tabbing/Spaces
References: <mailman.979964602.24742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <B68F2A7F.91B1%bobhicks@adelphia.net>

So what is the answer then? Can't anything get a simple answer! :-)

Bob

> From: "Tim Peters" <tim.one at home.com>
> Organization: Baymountain
> Newsgroups: comp.lang.python
> Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 23:22:41 -0500
> To: <python-list at python.org>
> Subject: RE: Tabbing/Spaces
> 
> [Robert L Hicks]
>> ...
>> While reading the reference manual it denotes that 8
>> spaces is that standard for indentation.
> 
> [Tim]
>> Where?  The Python compiler deals with a tab character by
>> moving to the next multiple-of-8 column, but that's just
>> a (hardcoded) fact.
> 
> [Emile van Sebille]
>> From the Reference Manual:
>> 
>> 2.1.7 Indentation
>> Leading whitespace (spaces and tabs) at the beginning of a
>> logical line is used to compute the indentation level of the
>> line, which in turn is used to determine the grouping of
>> statements.
>> 
>> First, tabs are replaced (from left to right) by one to
>> eight spaces such that the total number of characters up to
>> and including the replacement is a multiple of eight (this
>> is intended to be the same rule as used by Unix). The total
>> number of spaces preceding the first non-blank character
>> then determines the line's indentation. Indentation cannot
>> be split over multiple physical lines using backslashes; the
>> whitespace up to the first backslash determines the
>> indentation.
> 
> As I said, that merely defines what the Python compiler *does* with a tab
> character, which is just a fact.  It doesn't say anything about 8 columns
> being "[a] standard for indentation" (which indeed it is not, but AFAIK the
> Ref Man is silent on that issue).  So Robert is thinking of something else,
> or neither of you knows how to read Dutch <wink>.
> 
> 



From aahz at panix.com  Sun Jan  7 16:52:05 2001
From: aahz at panix.com (Aahz Maruch)
Date: 7 Jan 2001 13:52:05 -0800
Subject: boolean xor
References: <93ace8$nmo$1@panix3.panix.com> <H6366.4370$Qb7.621903@newsb.telia.net>
Message-ID: <93aoe5$ehi$1@panix6.panix.com>

In article <H6366.4370$Qb7.621903 at newsb.telia.net>,
Fredrik Lundh <fredrik at effbot.org> wrote:
>
>def xor(a,b):
>    from operator import truth
>    return truth(a) ^ truth(b)

Thanks!  That's clear enough I don't need to comment it.  ;-)
-- 
                      --- Aahz (Copyright 2001 by aahz at pobox.com)

Androgynous poly kinky vanilla queer het    <*>     http://www.rahul.net/aahz/
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6

"This is Usenet.  We're all masturbating in public places."  -DH


From fredrik at effbot.org  Fri Jan  5 03:14:15 2001
From: fredrik at effbot.org (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 08:14:15 GMT
Subject: list operation '+= ' or assignment problem
References: <fXV46.83554$A06.2935629@news1.frmt1.sfba.home.com> <xX_46.2919$AH6.516601@newsc.telia.net> <9326h9$4b7$1@panix6.panix.com>
Message-ID: <rnf56.3808$Qb7.492839@newsb.telia.net>

Aahz Maruch wrote:
> No, but I'll explain why some people are saying "yes":
>
> foo = "abc"
> bar = foo
> bar += "d"
>
> bar now contains a reference to "abcd", which is a copy of the original
> string "abc" plus the additional letter "d".

I think it's more because Joe used "assignment" to refer to
both ordinary assignment and augmented assignment.

In Python, the latter is really just syntax sugar for a method
call, while the former is an operation on the namespace, not
the object.

The method call may make a copy, if it prefers to.  The name-
space operation never makes any copies, for any kind of object.

(But you already knew that, of course)

Cheers /F






From drifty at my-deja.com  Sat Jan 13 18:23:40 2001
From: drifty at my-deja.com (drifty at my-deja.com)
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 23:23:40 GMT
Subject: Strange exceptions raised by os.renames and shutil.copytree
References: <93orei$sur$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <3A60CCF0.445FCEC4@san.rr.com>
Message-ID: <93qo1n$8ki$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

In article <3A60CCF0.445FCEC4 at san.rr.com>,
  Darren New <dnew at san.rr.com> wrote:
> > The second way I tried was using os.renames(), but that raised OSError
> > [errno 13].  Now I realize that normally this would be resolved by
> > making sure that all files in the directory being renamed were closed,
> > but the problem is that I don't have any files open from the directory.
> >  The only thing the program has done to the source directory up to that
> > point is os.listdir() and os.path.isdir() on the directory.
>
> Just a guess, but make sure your current directory isn't the directory
> you're trying to rename before you try renaming it. os.path.listdir()
might
> leave you cwd set to what it listed or something?
>
> --
> Darren New / Senior MTS & Free Radical / Invisible Worlds Inc.
> San Diego, CA, USA (PST).  Cryptokeys on demand.
>    Crunching tiger, hidden dragon
>





os.listdir() only visits the directory; it does not pwd into it; or if
it does it comes right back.  And I do not listdir() into the directory;
I listdir() the directory above it.

-Brett


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From nas at arctrix.com  Mon Jan 29 05:06:30 2001
From: nas at arctrix.com (Neil Schemenauer)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 02:06:30 -0800
Subject: Scope rules in Python
In-Reply-To: <mu6b7t085im3cn22f9b8prdg6riaqd46gp@4ax.com>; from spamers@must.die on Mon, Jan 29, 2001 at 05:41:28PM +0100
References: <mu6b7t085im3cn22f9b8prdg6riaqd46gp@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <20010129020630.A14936@glacier.fnational.com>

On Mon, Jan 29, 2001 at 05:41:28PM +0100, Fernando Rodr?guez wrote:
>Is there any plans to change the scope rules in Python [...]

    http://python.sourceforge.net/peps/pep-0227.html

  Neil



From tim at degree.ath.cx  Thu Jan 25 21:00:25 2001
From: tim at degree.ath.cx (Tim Hammerquist)
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 02:00:25 GMT
Subject: .cgi or .cgp or .py or ?
References: <mailman.980188705.18836.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrn971mq7.94m.tim@degree.ath.cx>

Oleg Broytmann <phd at phd.pp.ru> wrote:
>    (I am a bit exagerating here, but really not too much. Promoting Python
> is very important in the world full of other damn P* languages :)

Now, now.  I thought comp.lang.python was so much more well-adjusted and
fair than this.  =)  You can at least take comfort in the fact that the
mass majority of P*** CGI scripts have either no extension or .cgi and
therefore do not "promote" their mother-language in the way you
described.  (Obviously, P*** didn't need this sort of promotion to
succeed, and neither does Python.)

-- 
-Tim Hammerquist <timmy at cpan.org>
A university is what a college becomes when
the faculty loses interest in students.
	-- John Ciardi


From sholden at holdenweb.com  Wed Jan 10 21:17:29 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 21:17:29 -0500
Subject: ActivePython2.0 - Server Side objects for ASP problem
References: <93j0qi$7cv$1@bob.news.rcn.net>
Message-ID: <tK876.2719$24.38513@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com>

"Satheesh Babu" <vsbabu at erols.com> wrote in message
news:93j0qi$7cv$1 at bob.news.rcn.net...
> Hi,
>
> I'm trying to use a server side python object to be called from a VBScript
> ASP code.
> It works nicely for simple things. When I try to use urllib functions, I
get
> an error. Any
> idea? The second function works nicely. I'm using Win98, PWS with
Build202.
> I'll try
> on NT4.0 IIS tomorrow. Any help is greatly appreciated.
>
> ----------------- ASP file -----------------
> <% @LANGUAGE="VBSCRIPT" %>
> <!--#include file="pymod.asp"-->
> <%= SlurpURL("http://vsbabu.csoft.net/") %>
> <%= CapitalizeIt("the first letter should be capitalized") %>
>
> ----------------pymod.asp------------------
> <script language='python' runat='server'>
> from urllib import *
> from string import *

# Is this safe? from module import * is often not a good idea unless
# the module has been designed with that in mind...

>
> def SlurpURL(i_url):
>     f = urlopen(i_url)

# Try changing preceding line to read f = urlopen(str(i_url))

>     o_data = f.read()
>     f.close()
>     return o_data
>
> def CapitalizeIt(i_str)
>     return capitalize(i_str)

# Maybe this would need to be return capitalize(str(i_str)) as well

>
>
> </script>
> ------------------ error message -----------------
> Python ActiveX Scripting Engine error '80020009'
>
> Traceback (innermost last): File "<Script Block >", line 4, in SlurpURL f
=
> urlopen(i_url) File "c:\python20\lib\urllib.py", line 61, in urlopen
return
> _urlopener.open(url) File "c:\python20\lib\urllib.py", line 166, in open
> return getattr(self, name)(url) File "c:\python20\lib\urllib.py", line
248,
> in open_http host, selector = url ValueError: unpack sequence of wrong
size
>
> ?
>
> host, selector = url
>
> ======================

With the changes above I get *something* other than an error message in my
browser window, but of course because you aren't re-interpreting the HTML as
you pass it through, all the links are broken and no graphics appear.

You might want to consider adding a <BASE> tag to your page, quoting the
original URL and therefore persuading your browser to interpret embedded
URLs correctly.

regards
 Steve




From mikal at wayne.goldweb.com.au  Thu Jan  4 04:51:42 2001
From: mikal at wayne.goldweb.com.au (Michael Still)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 20:51:42 +1100 (EST)
Subject: Help!! 2nd Request!!!
In-Reply-To: <LOBBJMHOIFOLFIPFANHJIEGPCHAA.zope@TheWebsons.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0101042050070.758-100000@localhost.localdomain>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Thu, 4 Jan 2001, Ben Ocean wrote:

> How can I install Mailman if I can?t install GCC??? How can I install GCC
> when the instructions for installing it are written in Greek??? Look, I?m
> not brain-dead, but it appears that whoever wrote the following intended to
> keep GCC from being installed by all but a handful of techno-nerds:

Might I suggest that the phrasing of your email makes it less likely to
be answered? Calling someone a techno-nerd (presumably that it a bas
thing), and then asking for help seems counter productive.

What OS are you using? Why don't you just download the relevant packaged
gcc for your OS? In fact, is there a packaged version of mailman for your
OS?

Cheers,
Mikal

- -- 
Michael Still (mikal at stillhq.com)
 - Panda PDF Generation Library (http://www.stillhq.com/cgi-bin/getpage?area=panda&page=index.htm)
 - PandaLex PDF Parsing Library (http://www.stillhq.com/cgi-bin/getpage?area=pandalex&page=index.htm)
 - PandaScript PDF Scripting Interface (http://www.stillhq.com/cgi-bin/getpage?area=pandascript&page=index.htm)
 - GPG Public Key at http://www.stillhq.com/mikal.asc and on pgp.net keyservers

"To read makes our speaking english good" -- Xander, Buffy the Vampire Slayer in "I Robot, You Jane"


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Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org

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From nospam at ktgroup.co.uk  Tue Jan 16 04:39:57 2001
From: nospam at ktgroup.co.uk (Pat Knight)
Date: 16 Jan 2001 09:39:57 +0000
Subject: Determining names of instances
References: <e7L86.554$KD3.238565@typhoon.aracnet.com>
Message-ID: <uzogrkf82.fsf@ktgroup.co.uk>

"Daniel Klein" <DanielK at jBASE.com> writes:

> A question I hope has a simple answer. Take the following simple class and
> instance
> 
>     class foobar:
>         pass
> 
>     foo = foobar()
> 
> The question is, is there a way for the object 'foo' to know that its name
> is 'foo'?

There isn't, because the variable 'foo' isn't an instance of the foobar class.
Instead, foo is a reference to said instance. The statement
        bar = foo
creates a new reference to the same object. It does not copy the object as
might happen in C++.

This should let you see why the object doesn't have the name 'foo'. Is it 'foo'
or 'bar' or both after the assignment?

If you really need to have the instance know it's own identity, pass a value
into a parameter at construction time e.g.
        class foobar:
            def __init__ (self, my_id):
                self.my_id = my_id

        foo = foobar('foo')

However, please ask why the object needs to know it's own identity. Is it so
that it can manipulate a particular external object? Have it contain a
reference to that object. Is it for program trace or debug logging? Use
id(self) to get an id that is independent of the name referring to the object.



From grey at despair.rpglink.com  Fri Jan  5 12:49:13 2001
From: grey at despair.rpglink.com (Steve Lamb)
Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 17:49:13 -0000
Subject: Migrating to perl?
References: <3Fa56.4580$of7.216286@news1.atl> <933fa1$j2i$1@newshost.accu.uu.nl> <ggd56.4652$of7.222552@news1.atl> <slrn95b3bf.g1f.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <Wzk56.811$4Z.64489@news2.atl>
Message-ID: <slrn95c28p.k53.grey@teleute.rpglink.com>

On Fri, 5 Jan 2001 09:06:21 -0500, Joel Ricker <joejava at dragonat.net> wrote:
>After seeing examples of this, I'm don't think I'll mind that.  I took a
>FORTRAN class once and which used quite a bit of white space for its control
>structs but I think it won't be so bad with Python.  Especially no more
>counting curley braces to find where the logic error is.

    To be honest, I've not minded it at all.  The only thing I miss is
bouncing on the % key in vim to see where blocks are.  Of course it also means
I don't need to bounce on the % key to make sure what I have intended is
really the block structure so I'm happy with the lack of bouncing.  :)

-- 
         Steve C. Lamb         | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your
         ICQ: 5107343          | main connection to the switchboard of souls.
-------------------------------+---------------------------------------------


From mwh21 at cam.ac.uk  Fri Jan 26 11:29:50 2001
From: mwh21 at cam.ac.uk (Michael Hudson)
Date: 26 Jan 2001 16:29:50 +0000
Subject: python-2.1 function attributes
References: <mailman.980515832.8534.python-list@python.org> <94s0r0$elb5e$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de> <m34rymxt4u.fsf@atrus.jesus.cam.ac.uk> <94s7ai$eo53m$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <m3y9vywa2p.fsf@atrus.jesus.cam.ac.uk>

"Emile van Sebille" <emile at fenx.com> writes:

> Let's see if I can pare down the interactive session
> properly:

Oh, I see what you mean.

> >>> def test(a=1,b=2,c=3):
>  print 'test . a,b,c =', a,b,c
> >>> l = (4,5,6)
> >>> test(*l)
> test . a,b,c = 4 5 6
> >>> d = {'a':44,'b':55,'c':66}
> >>> test(**d)
> test . a,b,c = 44 55 66
> 
> There, that looks OK.  By adopting this in, eg:
> 
> def test(...) having (a=1, b=2, c=3):
> 
> you'd be able to write either:
> 
> l = (4,5,6)
> def test(...) having (*l):

Uhh, how do you propose to refer to the elements of l?  test.0?

> --or--
> 
> d = {'a':44,'b':55,'c':66}
> def test(...) having (**d):

This would work, but I'm slightly agin it; if you're doing stuff
out-of-line *anyway*, you can do 

d = {'a':44,'b':55,'c':66}
def test(...):
    ...
test.__dict__.update(d)

Hmm.

BTW, I've implemented my proposal at:

http://sourceforge.net/patch/?func=detailpatch&patch_id=103441&group_id=5470

You need a *really* recent Python (i.e. CVS from later than yesterday)
to get this to work (Jeremy checked in the code for PEP 227, static
nested scopes, which really beat up the compiler).  But give it a
whirl!

Cheers,
M.

-- 
  If you don't use emacs, you're a pathetic, mewling, masochistic
  weakling and I can't be bothered to convert you.    -- Ron Echeverri


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Tue Jan 16 10:03:17 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 16:03:17 +0100
Subject: Web devel with python. Whats the best route?
References: <mailman.978910629.6814.python-list@python.org> <93cqvi0191h@news1.newsguy.com> <kuofxhi4d2.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi> <93om7l$p6s$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <kusnmmfs6a.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi> <93t6bv$pj$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <kud7dpg247.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi> <93uqu302sdf@news1.newsguy.com> <ku4rz0g0w6.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>
Message-ID: <941nus0b82@news1.newsguy.com>

"Erno Kuusela" <erno-news at erno.iki.fi> wrote in message
news:ku4rz0g0w6.fsf at lasipalatsi.fi...
    [snip]
> | Wrong, see RFC 2109, "HTTP State Management Mechanism".  That is
> | where cookies are specified in detail.
>
> that doesn't make them part of http :)

What makes something 'part of HTTP' if not being among the W3C's
"HTTP Specification and Drafts", http://www.w3.org/Protocols/Specs.html?

RFCs 2616, 2617, 2145, 2109, there listed, are my definition
of the "parts of HTTP" (1.1).  I consider (e.g.) the state
management part, detailed in 2109, and the authentication part,
detailed in 2617, to be as much a 'part of HTTP' as anything
listed in 2616 itself.

RFC2109 will soon be obsoleted by the new RFC2965, with the
addition of a separate RFC2964 which you may be particularly
interested in (ftp://ftp.isi.edu/in-notes/rfc2964.txt) -- it's
a very readable summary of the advantages of cookies over other
ways to encode state (such as the ones you prefer), what uses
of cookies are deemed inappropriate and forbidden by standard
('MUST NOT', 'SHOULD NOT') -- with a small but significant
reference to how the exactly-same things can be perpetrated
without any cookies at all (it doesn't go into details, but
you can find working examples in _many_ places on the net:-).

As the CIAC correctly summarizes, "preventing your browser from
accepting cookies does not make you an anonymous user, it just
makes it more difficult to track your usage" -- just a special
case of: avoiding cookies does not make it impossible to use
state with HTTP, just more difficult.  "Information about where
you come from and what web pages you visit already exists in a
web server's log files and could also be used to track users
browsing habits, cookies just make it easier".  I concur.  Cfr
http://www.ciac.org/ciac/bulletins/i-034.shtml.

In other words, the 'cookies scare' is just one more example
of the kind of misunderstood-technology/science-stuff-scares
we keep seeing these days; just like the people who are now
avoiding any cattle-related product at all, just in case it
could possibly put them at risk of BSE (so far, milk and even
cow-milk-cheese sales are dropping around here; I predict that
before long, cow-skin leather will suffer too; pork and mutton
meat sales are about flat -- people buying them rather than
beef being compensated by those who, just in case squared, are
becoming vegetarians or thereabouts).


> i for example usually just skip sites that don't work with
> my default no-cookies/no-javascript browser setting.
>
> the url approach cannot be subverted for the use cookies
> most often see.

I guess you're right and the CIAC and the W3C are wrong, then;
your surfing-privacy is safe if you just refuse cookies.  Keep
sleeping, then, and dream pleasant dreams.

As for me, I'll keep using cookies (appropriately, of course),
degrading gracefully where cookies are not being supported (as
per specs in the already-quoted RFC's), but without breaking
my back to try and make the 'gracefully degraded' web-application
behavior as nice and easy to use as the everything-working case.
And if that loses me the paranoids' market niche, oh well -- I'm
saving lots of money these days by eating spinach instead of
beef, so, I can stand the income-reduction...


Alex





From ken_ar at my-deja.com  Wed Jan  3 07:38:29 2001
From: ken_ar at my-deja.com (ken_ar at my-deja.com)
Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 12:38:29 GMT
Subject: Nested structs and struct.pack
Message-ID: <92v6g5$t87$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

Hi!

I'm having problems with nested C structs and the
struct module. The size of the structs are
different for Python and C. The following
describes the problem:

// C
#include <stdio.h>

struct a
{
        long a;
};

typedef struct a A;

struct b
{
        A a;
        char c;
};

typedef struct b B;

struct c
{
        B b;
        char c;
};

typedef struct c C;

int main(int argc, char* argv[])
{
        printf("Type sizes\n");
        printf("A    : %u\n", sizeof(A));
        printf("B    : %u\n", sizeof(B));
        printf("C    : %u\n", sizeof(C));
}
// end

Here the size of C is 12.

# Python

import struct
struct.calcsize("lcc")
# end

Here the size is 8.

I've probably misunderstood how the compiler lays
out nested structs. But is there any way to tell
the struct module that I have nested structs so
that the C compiler and Python produce the same
result ?

With regards,
-Ken.


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From embed at NO_SPAM_PLEASE.geocities.com  Wed Jan  3 13:25:17 2001
From: embed at NO_SPAM_PLEASE.geocities.com (Warren Postma)
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2001 13:25:17 -0500
Subject: embedded python - cancel "while 1: pass"
Message-ID: <P9K46.13336$t3.31020@tor-nn1.netcom.ca>

I have to be able to stop a Python script that's executing inside my C
application if it hits a bit of stupid code like:

while 1:
    pass


So what do I do?   I've got Python 1.5.2 embedded into a large C
application, and it runs user-defined scripts.  When a user defined script
goes south, the only way to fix it is to reboot our embedded system. I'd
actually like to do something like

 PyThreadState *tstate;

    tstate = PyThreadState_Get();
    PyThread_Signal( tstate, ABORT);

Anybody know what I mean?

Warren Postma
ZTR Control Systems







From scastell at sas.upenn.edu  Tue Jan 16 09:30:33 2001
From: scastell at sas.upenn.edu (Steven M. Castellotti)
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 09:30:33 -0500
Subject: Interacting with a spawned ssh session?
References: <mailman.979598720.6834.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3A645B09.73B54167@sas.upenn.edu>

Chris Watson wrote:
> 
> WARNING! WARNING! DANGER WILL ROBINSON! DANGER!
> 
> This is a SERIOUS design flaw. Do not do this. Use rsa keys. Unless you
> don't care about security. But you are using ssh so I assume you do.
> 
> Im sure someone will tell you exactly how to manipulate a running process.
> But PLEASE use rsa keys for ssh and not passwords.

	Don't worry, I know better than putting passwords for ssh sessions into
the source code. What I'm actually trying to do is write a graphical
wrapper to ssh/scp, which first establishes an ssh session (which will
provide remote directory listings and whatnot), and then feeds queued-up
transfer requests into individual scp connections.

	True, the password will be stored plaintext in memory, and there will
be no way to ever consider this program "truly" secure, but I'm hoping
to use it to get a few of my users off of ftp, which will at least
increase security in general.

-- 
Steve Castellotti
Systems Programmer
School of Arts and Sciences, University of Pennsylvania



From djmoore at uh.edu  Tue Jan 30 21:55:56 2001
From: djmoore at uh.edu (DaveMoore)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 20:55:56 -0600
Subject: win32net: NetShareEnum Doesn't Work on Win9x Targets?
Message-ID: <faue7t8ejclcdq4m95u8mfc6daii1ff2pc@4ax.com>

I'm working with the Win32 API NetShareEnum function under
ActivePython 2.02, on a mixed 9x/NT/2K network.

When I invoke NetShareEnum("\\NTServer",shrLevel,resShare,prefLen),
I get the list of shared resources I expect. However, when I do the
same with NetShareEnum("\\Win98Srv",shrLevel,resShare,prefLen), I get
the error, "(87, 'NetShareEnum', 'The parameter is incorrect.')"

On checking the Microsoft SDK docs, I find that the calling parameters
are different for Win9x servers. I had thought this wouldn't affect
me, because my workstation is WinNT, but apparently the call is
actually executed on the remoter server.

The PythonWin32 Extensions doc mentions an "Alternative Parameter"
that allows you to specify which server the command runs on, but does
not say how to invoke the alternative form of the command. No, just
adding another parameter to the list doesn't work.

Perhaps I should be using WNetOpenEnum etc.? Unfortunately, the help
doc says there's a bug associated with that. How bad is the bug? 

Also, the WNet functions apparently don't return some of the
information I'm looking for. Plus, I have to say, the WNet stuff seems
a lot more complicated to use.

Thanks again.

-- 
Dave Moore == djmoore at uh.edu == I speak for me.


From rwd at cableinet.co.uk  Tue Jan 16 19:00:36 2001
From: rwd at cableinet.co.uk (Richard Dobson)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 00:00:36 GMT
Subject: how to run a DOS program without getting a box?
Message-ID: <3A64E195.ECA51312@cableinet.co.uk>

Hi all,

I have tried both os.system() and the exec~ calls, and they all cause
the Windows console to display when running a command-line program (in
my case, to play a soundfile I don't need to see the screen messages).
Is there a way to suppress this? Other languages, such as tcl/tk and GNU
Octave manage this fine. I'm using Python 2.0 under Windows2000 (sp1),
with IDLE.


Richard Dobson




-- 
Test your DAW with my Soundcard Attrition Page!
http://www.bath.ac.uk/~masrwd (LU: 3rd July 2000)
CDP: http://www.bath.ac.uk/~masjpf/CDP/CDP.htm (LU: 23rd February 2000)


From samschul at pacbell.net  Thu Jan 25 21:17:55 2001
From: samschul at pacbell.net (Sam Schulenburg)
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 02:17:55 GMT
Subject: Retriving CPU & memory usage.
References: <94mn4c$ent$1@news.netvision.net.il>
Message-ID: <94qmod$lk8$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

What platform?


In article <94mn4c$ent$1 at news.netvision.net.il>,
  "Tsachi BZ" <tsachi at richfx.com> wrote:
> I would like to know if there is a way to retrive CPU & Memory usage
in
> python (I'm writing an automatic tool for QA).
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Tsachi.
>
>


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From scarblac at pino.selwerd.nl  Tue Jan  2 09:18:46 2001
From: scarblac at pino.selwerd.nl (Remco Gerlich)
Date: 2 Jan 2001 14:18:46 GMT
Subject: using 'global' across source files.
References: <3A51CC63.A90A0E0B@sara.nl> <slrn953nf2.pcr.scarblac@pino.selwerd.nl> <3A51E27C.AF8F70B8@sara.nl>
Message-ID: <slrn953ok1.pcr.scarblac@pino.selwerd.nl>

Bram Stolk <bram at sara.nl> wrote in comp.lang.python:
> Remco,
> 
> Many thanks for your reply.
> However, your suggested changes do not fix the problem.
> 
> I have now:
> 
> # funcs.py
> 
> def change_val() :
>   global val
>   val = val * 2
> 
> 
> 
> # prog.py
> 
> val = 100
> 
> import funcs
> 
> 
> funcs.change_val()
> print val

You need "print funcs.val" now (just like you call the function with
"funcs.change_val()).

Using only import means you have to give the module's name every time,
but without that Python will never know if the value in the funcs module
has changed.

"global" just means "global inside this module".

-- 
Remco Gerlich


From quinn at quetzal.ugcs.caltech.edu  Sat Jan 20 00:36:59 2001
From: quinn at quetzal.ugcs.caltech.edu (Quinn Dunkan)
Date: 20 Jan 2001 05:36:59 GMT
Subject: A bug in commands.getstatus?
References: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0101192348200.9964-100000@z.glue.umd.edu>
Message-ID: <slrn96i8vr.maq.quinn@quetzal.ugcs.caltech.edu>

On Fri, 19 Jan 2001 23:53:04 -0500, Roy Katz <katz at Glue.umd.edu> wrote:
>Recently I noticed that commands.getstatus() does not accept any
>parameters I give it -- even when its sister functions getstatusoutput() 
>and getoutput() are happy:
>
>
>23:48:15 [foxglove at foxglove foxglove]$ py
>Python 2.0 (#1, Oct 16 2000, 18:10:03) 
>[GCC 2.95.2 19991024 (release)] on linux2
>Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>
>>>> import commands
>>>> commands.getstatus('ls')
>
> 'ls: ls: No such file or directory'
>
>>>> commands.getstatusoutput('ls .')
>(0, '')
>
>>>> commands.getoutput('ls .')
>''
>
>
>what is going on here??

Only what you asked it to do.  Try reading the documentation?

>>> print commands.getstatus.__doc__
Return output of "ls -ld <file>" in a string.

Granted, it's a weird name for a function that doesn't seem very useful, but
it _is_ documented.


From see at below  Mon Jan 29 02:44:47 2001
From: see at below (Paul Foley)
Date: 29 Jan 2001 20:44:47 +1300
Subject: PyMacs vs. Pym (was: Pyditor, Text editor fully extendible in python a la' Emacs)
References: <20010127193848.59d0f64b.ngreco@softhome.net> <HBEJKOJGHBOIBHLHPMKGIEAACIAA.rcalco@cortechs.com>
Message-ID: <m2y9vuztsg.fsf@mycroft.actrix.gen.nz>

On Sat, 27 Jan 2001 18:18:23 -0500 "Bob Calco" <rcalco at cortechs.com> wrote:

> By the way, my ideal text editor will also keep my coffee cup full of warm,
> fresh Expresso while I'm working. Haven't found one yet that can do that,
> not even the super-extensible Emacs...

You just haven't looked hard enough.  Go to http://www.xemacs.org,
scroll right to the bottom of the page, and look at the news for
1999-09-29!

-- 
C/C++/Java/Perl/etc are for people who want to make things that work.
Common Lisp is for people who want to make things that don't break.
                                                           -- Erik Naggum
(setq reply-to
  (concatenate 'string "Paul Foley " "<mycroft" '(#\@) "actrix.gen.nz>"))


From laura_01 at my-deja.com  Fri Jan 19 21:54:53 2001
From: laura_01 at my-deja.com (laura_01 at my-deja.com)
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 02:54:53 GMT
Subject: Neophyte looking for good books on Python
References: <94ak66$dra$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <94aulr$m1o$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

Hi! The next edition of "Programming Python" by Mark Lutz is due out in
early March,
if you can wait about a month.

Laura
LLewin at oreilly.com

In article <94ak66$dra$1 at nnrp1.deja.com>,
  galyak <galyak at my-deja.com> wrote:
> I'm looking for good books on Python. I'm a neophyte programmer and I
> have a small understanding of C. I'm looking for good introductory
books
> on Python.
>
> I've heard that "Programming Python by Mark Lutz" is a real treat.
Since
> python is an evolving language, is this book to old (1997)? Should i
get
> something fresher? I don't know.
>
> Have a nice day. Thanks.
>
> --
> galyak
>
> Sent via Deja.com
> http://www.deja.com/
>


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From syver at NOSPAMcyberwatcher.com  Wed Jan 17 17:57:37 2001
From: syver at NOSPAMcyberwatcher.com (Syver Enstad)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 23:57:37 +0100
Subject: pythoncom for VC++ RPC client
References: <944t9e$f4r$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <94585o$a34$2@troll.powertech.no>

<ctanya at my-deja.com> wrote in message news:944t9e$f4r$1 at nnrp1.deja.com...
> Is there a way to expose the pythomcom server to VC++ client using
> late binding? (with IUNKNOWN)
> The problem I'm facing is that VC++ client requires interface GUID to
> create the instance and I'm having trouble generating it from string
> interface representation:
> MakeIID(Sgl_sim.Server.HostServer.Connected) - gives me an error:
>        TypeError: The object can not be converted to a Unicode object.
>
> Could I avoid this step at all?

I am not sure what you mean here, you mean IDispatch and not IUnknown?

As for the interface, I don't think you have to specify that, or just use
the IID for IDispatch. But as you're probably aware of it's easier using the
#import directive and a typelibrary with C++ as you'll have to a lot of
fight with VARIANT arrays and other niceties else.




From tbryan at python.net  Sat Jan  6 08:15:15 2001
From: tbryan at python.net (Thomas A. Bryan)
Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2001 08:15:15 -0500
Subject: Migrating to perl?
References: <3Fa56.4580$of7.216286@news1.atl>
Message-ID: <3A571A63.7B2022AF@python.net>

Joel Ricker wrote:
> 
>  I'm thinking of moving from perl to python and I was looking for opinions
> on the difference.  
...
> Personally, I'm starting to get a little fustrated with perl.  
...
> Perl OO just feels like it has been cludged together.

That sounds familiar.  It's also one of the main reasons that I made the 
switch to Python.  I've been very pleased with Python.  I haven't done 
much with it, but see
http://starship.python.net/crew/tbryan/perl2python.html

I've also heard very good things about Ruby.  You may want to evaluate 
both Python and Ruby if you're looking for an alternative to Perl but 
don't know any Python yet.

> And lastly, what about the Python community?  

I've seen people post obvious trollbait.  Instead of starting a flamefest, 
instead of being ignored, a meaningful discussion resulted.  

Even when Tim Peters tells you that you don't know what you're talking 
about, he does it with a wink and a thorough explanation.

couln't-be-happier-ly yours
---Tom


From donn at u.washington.edu  Tue Jan 23 12:00:46 2001
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: 23 Jan 2001 17:00:46 GMT
Subject: os.system easy question
References: <slrn96qrgp.gg.huwdotlynes@Marvin.ic.ac.uk> <kuhf2q8pl4.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>
Message-ID: <94kdbu$rd0$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>

Quoth Erno Kuusela <erno-news at erno.iki.fi>:
| In article <slrn96qrgp.gg.huwdotlynes at Marvin.ic.ac.uk>,
| huwdotlynes at ic.ac.uk (Huw Lynes) writes:
|
|> how to kill the 
|> external program after it has run. Or alternatively how to
|> run an external program in such a way that the script will
|> not halt.
|
| do something like...
|
| import signal, os
|
| class BgProc:
|     def __init__(self, cmdline):
|         pid = os.fork()
|         if pid > 0:
|             self.pid = pid
|         else:
|             try:
|                 os.execvp('/bin/sh', ['sh', '-c', cmdline])
|             finally:
|                 os._exit(255)
|
|     def wait(self):
|         return os.waitpid(self.pid, 0)
|
|     def kill(self, sig = signal.SIGTERM):
|         os.kill(self.pid, sig)
|         return self.wait()

That ought to work, just want to mention that in Python 2.0 the
fork & exec stuff can be turned over to os.spawnv() if you like:

   pid = os.spawnv(os.P_NOWAIT, '/bin/sh', ('sh', '-c', cmd))

	Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu


From joejava at dragonat.net  Wed Jan 24 23:39:35 2001
From: joejava at dragonat.net (Joel Ricker)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 23:39:35 -0500
Subject: Parsing html links
References: <mailman.980335527.21603.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3cOb6.1399$OP4.54139@news1.atl>

"Oleg Broytmann" <phd at phd.pp.ru> wrote in message
news:mailman.980335527.21603.python-list at python.org...
> <offtopic mode="philosofy">
>    I always wonder how things are going in the Universe. A question may
> lies hidden somewhere in a dark corner, then someone comes and asks the
> question. Immediatly after him few different people come and ask the same
> or very similar questions. :)))
> </offtopic>

I think people operated on herd mentality, keyed into the collective
unconscious.  Working at grocery stores in high school and college I saw
something similar.  You always see the same rate of people entering a store,
but they never check out at the same rate.  The front end will be dead for
one minute and instantly there will be a huge line of people at each
register and then it dies down for awhile again.  One of the mysteries of
the universe.

Joel




From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Sat Jan 27 09:18:46 2001
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 14:18:46 +0000
Subject: . Python 2.1 function attributes
References: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0101270135190.7677-100000@y.glue.umd.edu>
 <mailman.980593892.725.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <$5A+ZwAGjtc6EwE0@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>

In article <mailman.980593892.725.python-list at python.org>, Tim Peters
<tim.one at home.com> writes
....
>Barry also added code to Python 2.1 to let you write, e.g.,
>
>    def f() >> x:
>        x = 1
>        y = 2
>
>as a short way to spell "whatever the value of x is at the end of the
>function, return that".  I'm sure you'll agree that's much cleaner than the
>clumsy
>
>    def f():
>        x = 1
>        y = 2
>        return x
>
>people suffer with today.
>
....
mmmhhhh :( what happens with

def f() >> x:
        return 1


def f() >> x:
        y=2
        return y

seems to me that having multiple ways of doing return is a bad idea
-- 
Robin Becker


From glenfant at equod.com.nospam  Thu Jan 11 12:21:16 2001
From: glenfant at equod.com.nospam (Gilles Lenfant)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 18:21:16 +0100
Subject: using IE5 HTML DOM parser in python ?
Message-ID: <93kpp4$51p$1@reader1.imaginet.fr>

Hi,

Seems that it is not easy to parse ugly HTML (not "well formed" in XML
wording) with the htmllib.
I can do it easily with the IE5 included HTML DOM parser but it's in
javascript and the script is to be included in the HTML.
Did any of U succeed to use it from python and win32 extensions.
Please show me pointers.

Thanks in advance.

Gilles Lenfant

PS. Please don't reply "make politically correct HTML and it'll work" ! I
agree but I don't lpan to parse HTML documents built by myself.



From fabrice.n at home.com  Mon Jan 29 08:40:39 2001
From: fabrice.n at home.com (shaka)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 13:40:39 GMT
Subject: How do I pass an argument while I when running a script
Message-ID: <rped6.12388$KP3.4235886@news3.rdc1.on.home.com>






From jafo-pythonlist at tummy.com  Sun Jan 21 14:54:34 2001
From: jafo-pythonlist at tummy.com (Sean Reifschneider)
Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 12:54:34 -0700
Subject: Ensuring exclusive file locks on UNIX platforms
In-Reply-To: <lqvgr86gb7.fsf@snacks.esol.no>; from morten@esol.no on Sun, Jan 21, 2001 at 05:06:04PM +0100
References: <lqvgr86gb7.fsf@snacks.esol.no>
Message-ID: <20010121125434.E28283@tummy.com>

On Sun, Jan 21, 2001 at 05:06:04PM +0100, Morten W. Petersen wrote:
>Is there a way to ensure exclusive access to the file using
>some existing python module, or do I need to add a .<filename>.lock
>'hack' ?

There are various locking calls available in the standard library.
Depending on what flavor of Unix and what file-system you are using,
some of them may be more appropriate than others...  I have a dot-locking
module that I've used fairly successfully.  It's called "jlock.py" and
is at ftp://ftp.tummy.com/pub/tummy/Python/jlock.py

Sean
-- 
 If I built a talking Barbie, it would say "Date math is hard."
                 -- Sean Reifschneider, 2000
Sean Reifschneider, Inimitably Superfluous <jafo at tummy.com>
tummy.com - Linux Consulting since 1995. Qmail, KRUD, Firewalls, Python



From murple at my-deja.com  Tue Jan 23 06:38:48 2001
From: murple at my-deja.com (murple at my-deja.com)
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 11:38:48 GMT
Subject: Python 2.0 parser module bug(?) and a Q
References: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10012272204060.330-100000@kev.ioc.ee> <p6qofxxe43j.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de> <Pine.LNX.4.10.10012281200430.23773-100000@kev.ioc.ee> <94h0d5$5va$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <94jqg8$im8$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

Sorry for posting 3times, had Problems with deja.com

> 1. If you have double DEDENT, there is a
> '\r' left in the resulting string. This
> seems to be easely solved by an replace()
>
> 2. Anything like "modul.class.function" comes out
> as "modul  . class . function". Using replace
> to solve this is not good, since you would replace
> also in wrong places. I think, here you would have
> to look into the structure of the syntax-tree.

Ok, noticed that 2. is not a problem, it would still be valid.
But another one is: you also replace occurance of a Tabulator
in Strings. (I don't mean "\t" or "\11" but the "real" tab-character)


Andreas


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From mhagger at alum.mit.edu  Sat Jan 27 12:25:34 2001
From: mhagger at alum.mit.edu (Michael Haggerty)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 17:25:34 GMT
Subject: Gnuplot.py version 1.5 released
Message-ID: <m2hf2ksy9d.fsf@freak.kaiserty.com>

This is to announce the release of version 1.5 of Gnuplot.py.

[This is the first release of Gnuplot.py in over a year.  I had been
very busy with a job in a startup in which I didn't need the package.
Now that my company is a dot.bust, I have had a little time to catch
up on Gnuplot.py (and other free software) development while I look
for new consulting work.]

Gnuplot.py is a Python [1] package that allows you to create graphs
from within Python using the gnuplot [2] plotting program.

Gnuplot.py can be obtained from

    http://gnuplot-py.sourceforge.net/

Prerequisites (see footnotes):
    the Python interpreter [1]
    the Python Numeric module [3]
    the gnuplot program [2]

Some ways this package can be used:

1. Interactive data processing: Use Python's excellent Numeric package
   to create and manipulate arrays of numbers, and use Gnuplot.py to
   visualize the results.
2. Web graphics: write CGI scripts in Python that use gnuplot to
   output plots in GIF format and return them to the client.
3. Glue for numerical applications (this is my favorite): wrap your
   C++/C/Fortran subroutines so that they are callable from Python,
   then you can perform numerical computations interactively from
   scripts or from the command line and use Gnuplot.py to plot the
   output on the fly.
4. Compute a series of datasets in Python and plot them one after the
   other using Gnuplot.py to produce a crude animation.

New features in this version:

  +  Added distutils support.
  +  Broke up the module a bit for better maintainability.  The most
     commonly-used facilities are still available through "import
     Gnuplot", but some specialized things have been moved to separate
     modules, in particular funcutils.py and PlotItems.py.
  +  funcutils.tabulate_function() can be used to evaluate a function
     on a 1-D or 2-D grid of points (this replaces grid_function,
     which only worked with 2-D grids).
  +  Added two helper functions, funcutils.compute_Data and
     funcutils.compute_GridData, which compute a function's values on
     a set of points and package the results into a PlotItem.
  +  GridFunc is no longer an independent class; it is now a factory
     function that returns a GridData.  GridFunc is deprecated in
     favor of funcutils.compute_GridData.
  +  Changed set_option to work from a table, so that it doesn't need
     to be overloaded so often.
  +  Implemented test_persist for each platform to make it easier for
     users to determine whether the `-persist' option is supported.
  +  Added a prefer_persist option to serve as the default `persist'
     choice.
  +  Following a suggestion by Jannie Hofmeyr, use "from os import
     popen" for Python 2.0 under Windows.  I don't use Windows, so let
     me know how this works.
  +  Added support for the `axes' and `smooth' options of the `plot'
     command.
  +  Reworked the comment strings in an effort to make them work
     nicely with happydoc.

Features already present in older versions:

  +  Two and three-dimensional plots.
  +  Plot data from memory, from a file, or from an expression.
  +  Support for multiple simultaneous gnuplot sessions.
  +  Can pass arbitrary commands to the gnuplot program.
  +  Object oriented, extensible design with several built-in types
     of plot items.
  +  Portable and easy to install (nothing to compile except on
     Windows).
  +  Support for MS Windows, using the `pgnuplot.exe' program.
  +  Support for sending data to gnuplot as `inline' or `binary' data.
     These are optimizations that also remove the need for temporary
     files.  Temporary files are still the default.


Footnotes:
----------
[1] Python <http://www.python.org> is an excellent object-oriented
    scripting/rapid development language that is also especially good
    at gluing programs together.
[2] gnuplot <http://www.gnuplot.org/> is a free, popular, very
    portable plotting program with a command-line interface.  It can
    make 2-d and 3-d plots and can output to myriad printers and
    graphics terminals.
[3] The Numeric Python extension <http://numpy.sourceforge.net/> is a
    Python module that adds fast and convenient array manipulations to
    the Python language.

Yours,
Michael

-- 
Michael Haggerty
mhagger at alum.mit.edu


From cjc26 at nospam.cornell.edu  Mon Jan 22 12:53:19 2001
From: cjc26 at nospam.cornell.edu (Cliff Crawford)
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 17:53:19 GMT
Subject: pg module, lo problem
References: <980131091.743086@basic.maxnet.ru>
Message-ID: <js_a6.1233$ju6.158595@typhoon.nyroc.rr.com>

* Alexei Zalivine <zalivin at krona.obninsk.ru> menulis:
| Hi,
| 
| I have a problem with large object in pg module. Anybody work with LO?
| 
| After locreate function, object not opened. If I try to open, pg.error sad,
| that it can't be opened. All functions work only with opened objects, exept
| export.
| I use Mandrake 7.0 Linux, pg version 3.1 and python version 1.5.2. Please
| help me, because I alredy started project, and can't choose other DB.

In PostgreSQL you have to use large objects within a transaction.  So,
you should do a pg.query("BEGIN;") before locreate, and a
pg.query("COMMIT;") after you close the large object.


-- 
Cliff Crawford               http://www.people.cornell.edu/pages/cjc26/
                             print "Just another Python hacker"


From akuchlin at mems-exchange.org  Tue Jan 23 14:35:34 2001
From: akuchlin at mems-exchange.org (Andrew Kuchling)
Date: 23 Jan 2001 14:35:34 -0500
Subject: I mean *setup.py* ! ... (more questions)
References: <mailman.980277285.14781.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3d3dea3vuh.fsf@ute.cnri.reston.va.us>

"Steven D. Majewski" <sdm7g at virginia.edu> writes:
> I was willing to write the other one off as a MacOSX oddity that
> nobody on python-dev was likely to know about, but -ltermcap is
> likely to be a problem on other systems too! 

setup.py was written using 2.0's Modules/Setup.in as a guide to
platform specific problems; it didn't mention MacOS X, of course.  Try
the untested patch below; you'll need to fix whatever sys.platform is
on MacOS X.  Please let me know what it is and let me know if it
works.

> So that makes me think I'm missing some obvious way of overriding 
> these switches. Are there any docs or tips on this new setup 
> method ?  Am I just supposed to edit the source of setup.py, or 
> is it generated from some template ? 

Right now the only way to fiddle with setup.py is to edit it, and
submit patches back.  I'm planning to have some command-line switches
in the next alpha.

--amk

Index: setup.py
===================================================================
RCS file: /cvsroot/python/python/dist/src/setup.py,v
retrieving revision 1.12
diff -u -r1.12 setup.py
--- setup.py	2001/01/22 10:38:27	1.12
+++ setup.py	2001/01/23 19:33:44
@@ -113,6 +113,11 @@
         inc_dirs = ['/usr/include'] + self.compiler.include_dirs
         exts = []
 
+	# Check for MacOS X, which doesn't need libm.a at all
+	math_libs = ['m']
+	if sys.platform == 'XXX fill this in':
+	    math_libs = []
+
         # XXX Omitted modules: gl, pure, dl, SGI-specific modules
 
         #
@@ -129,13 +134,16 @@
         # array objects
         exts.append( Extension('array', ['arraymodule.c']) )
         # complex math library functions
-        exts.append( Extension('cmath', ['cmathmodule.c'], libraries=['m']) )
+        exts.append( Extension('cmath', ['cmathmodule.c'], 
+	             libraries=math_libs) )
         # math library functions, e.g. sin()
-        exts.append( Extension('math',  ['mathmodule.c'], libraries=['m']) )
+        exts.append( Extension('math',  ['mathmodule.c'], 
+                     libraries=math_libs) )
         # fast string operations implemented in C
         exts.append( Extension('strop', ['stropmodule.c']) )
         # time operations and variables
-        exts.append( Extension('time', ['timemodule.c'], libraries=['m']) )
+        exts.append( Extension('time', ['timemodule.c'], 
+                               libraries=math_libs) )
         # operator.add() and similar goodies
         exts.append( Extension('operator', ['operator.c']) )
         # access to the builtin codecs and codec registry
@@ -335,8 +343,11 @@
         elif (self.compiler.find_library_file(lib_dirs, 'curses')):
             if (self.compiler.find_library_file(lib_dirs, 'terminfo')):
                 curses_libs = ['curses', 'terminfo']
-            else:
+	    elif (self.compiler.find_library_file(lib_dirs, 'termcap')):
                 curses_libs = ['curses', 'termcap']
+            else:
+		# Assume that termcap/terminfo aren't needed at all.
+                curses_libs = ['curses']
                 
             exts.append( Extension('_curses', ['_cursesmodule.c'],
                                    libraries = curses_libs) )



From dubal at my-deja.com  Mon Jan  8 08:12:40 2001
From: dubal at my-deja.com (dubal at my-deja.com)
Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2001 13:12:40 GMT
Subject: Help: trying to create python wrapper for cdk using swig
Message-ID: <93cec4$ep8$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

Hello good folks!

We are trying to build a business application that needs a database
front end to be done for dumb/text/character terminals. The database of
our choice is Postgresql, language Python, os Redhat 6.2 or 7.0 on
Intel hardware. We looked at newt, ncurses/pyncurses and
http://www.vexus.ca/CDK.html. Of these we like cdk best because it has
readymade widgets such as "matrix" which is just what we need to
display things such as invoices on dumb terminals with scrolling arrays.

How can we use cdk from within python? We went to swig. While swig is
able to wrap the example routine given in the documentation, it is not
able to create wrapper correctly for any of cdk's routines. For example
we take a routine called label.c and created label.i for it thus:

%module label
%{
#include <cdk/cdk.h>
#include <cdk/label.h>
%}
%include "cdk/cdk.h"
%include "cdk/label.h"

then we run swig thus:

swig -python -shadow -I/usr/include -I/usr/local/include -make_default -
DNCUSRSES label.i

(cdk is installed by default into /usr/local/include/cdk
and /usr/local/lib)
Above swig command does not give any error. Produces label.py and
label_wrap.c as expected.

Then we compile thus:
gcc -fPIC -g -O2 -I/usr/include/python1.5 -I/usr/local/include -
DHAVE_CONFIG_H -c ./label_wrap.c
gcc -shared label_wrap.o -o labelcmodule.so
These also do not produce any errors.

Then we test our wrapper by importing label into python. This produces
the following error:
ImportError: ./labelcmodule.so: undefined symbol: CDKDEBUG

The same error appears for other cdk widget files such as entry.c as
well.

What are we doing wrong? CDKDEBUG is defined in cdk.h as
extern  FILE	*CDKDEBUG;
We even tried to define the same in label.i in place of the header
files thus:

%module label
%{
#include <cdk/cdk.h>
#include <cdk/label.h>
%}
extern  FILE    *CDKDEBUG;

This produced the same error.

We are not very familiar with c. Please help.
Thanks in advance.
Dubal


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From glandrum at my-deja.com  Wed Jan  3 10:02:43 2001
From: glandrum at my-deja.com (Greg Landrum)
Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 15:02:43 GMT
Subject: GIF Image Size
References: <Wxp46.24381$F_3.940941@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <92tbig$ede$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <Ifw46.28043$F_3.1077811@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <4my46.10966$mg6.496261@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <92veue$4b1$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

In article <4my46.10966$mg6.496261 at newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>,
  "Rindolf" <rindolf2 at yahoo.comNOSPAM> wrote:
> > Thank you! Btw, what type of object is img.size, and what is the
class of
> > object returned by Image.open()?
> Um, I just downloaded it, how do I use it in windows? I have python
2.0
> installed in C:\Python20. Help?
>

If you are using python 2.0, you can find a binary distribution at:
http://w1.132.telia.com/~u13208596/pil/index.htm
along with installation instructions.  It would be convenient if this
were directly available from the pythonware site, but it's not.

To answer your other questions, img.size is a 2-tuple and Image.open()
returns an instance of the PIL Image class.  Refer to the PIL docs
for information about this class.

-greg



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From echuck3 at my-deja.com  Mon Jan 29 11:47:53 2001
From: echuck3 at my-deja.com (echuck3 at my-deja.com)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 16:47:53 GMT
Subject: marshal doesn't work with "file-like" objects
References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010126135016.029c4d90@mail.mindspring.com> <mailman.980540325.4462.python-list@python.org> <94t1bi$m73$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <Wyxc6.9225$AH6.1522817@newsc.telia.net> <950a3c$27b$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <aORc6.9326$AH6.1567365@newsc.telia.net>
Message-ID: <9546rk$15i$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

In article <aORc6.9326$AH6.1567365 at newsc.telia.net>,
  "Fredrik Lundh" <fredrik at effbot.org> wrote:
> Chuck wrote:
> > It would be even faster to simply write the marshal results to
memory
> > first and then blast them out to disk in one fell swoop, e.g.
> > ultimately one fprintf() call.
>
> See Tim's post at the start of this thread.
>
> Cheers /F
>

I must be missing which post you refer to. I ultimately responded to
the Tim Peters post that I see.

I guess at some point I'll just have to hack this myself and report the
benchmarks. Do you see what I'm saying about speed, though? It's
generally faster to do operations in memory and then write one long
byte string than it is to repeatedly write a small bits of data to disk.

And once you're writing just one byte string for a single .pyc, the
overhead of one method invocation becomes trivial.

-Chuck


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From loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de  Fri Jan 26 12:21:32 2001
From: loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de (Martin von Loewis)
Date: 26 Jan 2001 18:21:32 +0100
Subject: Python vs Ruby
References: <94mdkd$222e$1@news.adamastor.ac.za> <p6qwvbjtr97.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de> <87puhbndn5.fsf@hoyogw.netlab.co.jp>
Message-ID: <p6qpuhatejn.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Yukihiro Matsumoto <matz at zetabits.com> writes:

> The leaks I meant were two fold:
> 
>   * circluar references
>   * wrong ref-counted objects, mostly by extension bugs.
> 
> The former disappeared in Python 2.0.  But the latter still remain.
> Correct me if I'm wrong.

That's right. In addition, the following kinds of objects still leak
in 2.0:

- instance objects participating in a cycle whose class has an __del__
  (they are added to gc.garbage, since finalization behaviour is unclear)

- cycles involving C objects (i.e. custom type instances) whose type
  implementations have not been updated to support the GC. Such types
  are rare, since C extensions typically act as holder of some external
  resource, not as holders of Python objects.

> |I don't know how exactly GC works in Ruby - it is likely that
> |it suffers from things that people would consider as drawbacks, though.
> 
> Maybe, maybe not.

So I shall find some time to study its weaknesses :-)

Regards,
Martin


From dsh8290 at rit.edu  Wed Jan 17 19:10:49 2001
From: dsh8290 at rit.edu (D-Man)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 19:10:49 -0500
Subject: Using Python instead of...
In-Reply-To: <9423s9$32f$1@nnrp1.deja.com>; from jurberg@my-deja.com on Tue, Jan 16, 2001 at 06:28:39PM +0000
References: <9423s9$32f$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <20010117191049.H23790@harmony.cs.rit.edu>

If you are considering using Java, I think that Python would be better
suited.  I have a fair amount of Java experience (rapidly increasing
as I use Java in my present employment) and feel that python far
exceeds Java in ability and ease of use.

Perhaps showing your boss the "Python in Industry" thread will help in
altering his "mainstream" view?

-D

PS.  I have never used VB, but I have heard that it tends not to have
good structure and doesn't have decent OO support.


On Tue, Jan 16, 2001 at 06:28:39PM +0000, John Urberg wrote:
| We are considering what language to use to rewrite our practice
| management system.  It is currently a PowerBuilder client/server system.
| Currently all that is in the running is VisualBasic and Java.  My boss
| is concerned about using anything that is not "mainstream".  Any ideas
| on ways to convince him to use Python?  Or is Python a bad idea for this
| application?
| 
| Thanks,
| John Urberg
| 



From dsh8290 at rit.edu  Mon Jan  1 23:12:48 2001
From: dsh8290 at rit.edu (D-Man)
Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2001 23:12:48 -0500
Subject: why no "do : until"?
In-Reply-To: <F9c46.218953$U46.6640877@news1.sttls1.wa.home.com>; from gregj@pobox.com on Tue, Jan 02, 2001 at 03:45:41AM +0000
References: <92jj3j$ff7$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <slrn94shbe.150.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <X8s36.2731$Qb7.305339@newsb.telia.net> <slrn94smds.150.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <FOt36.17$vd1.2224@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com> <slrn94t1vj.150.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <3A4E95FD.D6C737A7@engcorp.com> <92maie$cfo$3@newshost.accu.uu.nl> <mailman.978383941.17836.python-list@python.org> <F9c46.218953$U46.6640877@news1.sttls1.wa.home.com>
Message-ID: <20010101231248.B31465@westsidecnc.rh.rit.edu>

Yeah, my word choice wasn't the best.  How about this instead:

dountil x > 25 :
        ...

or

dowhile x <= 25 : 
        ...

This is really what I meant, and the semantics would be to execute the
loop once then test the condition.

Pick your favorite word or word combination for it.

:-)

-D


On Tue, Jan 02, 2001 at 03:45:41AM +0000, Greg Jorgensen wrote:
> "D-Man" <dsh8290 at rit.edu> wrote:
> 
<snip>
> That's equivalent to the while loop.
<snip>



From m.faassen at vet.uu.nl  Tue Jan 16 05:19:09 2001
From: m.faassen at vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen)
Date: 16 Jan 2001 10:19:09 GMT
Subject: is Python fully object oriented ?
References: <mailman.979602439.9581.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <94176t$ceq$1@newshost.accu.uu.nl>

Delaney, Timothy <tdelaney at avaya.com> wrote:
> Oh - avoiding this technique does not magically make the danger go away.
> However, *using* this technique is an almost guaranteed sure-fire way to
> stuff things up in a multi-threaded app.

Right, at least the one I mentioned at the bottom, which is assigning back
to the immutable (or treated-as-immutable) attribute in the end. The
local variable technique in general doesn't seem to make matters much
worse by itself, except if other threads are expected to assign to 
a variable. 

> The problem is, multiple threads can be executing the same bit of code at
> the same time. This is a problem with *any* system which accesses shared
> data - whether it be multi-threaded, multiple apps accessing the same file,
> etc.
[snip example]

Right, I am aware of this problem, even though I lack lots of experience
dealing with it myself; I just wondered how it applied in particular to
the local variable trick. Your example shows that not using a local variable
has the same problem if object attributes are accessed at all. 

> Your situation is similar. You are getting a value, doing things with it,
> then setting the original value to it.

Right, this is the problem case.

> Meanwhile, a second thread has
> grabbed *the original value*, does something else with it (i.e. not
> necessarily in the same method, so does something different), then after
> your first thread assigns it back, the *second* thread assigns it back. Your
> first thread is now likely to become very confused very quickly.

> The only safe way to do *exactly* what you are proposing is to treat it as a
> "critical section" - i.e. use a mutex or some other mechanism to ensure that
> only one thread is modifying that data at any time. This then gets rid of
> all your performance gains of using a local variable as the critical section
> becomes a bottleneck.

There is another reasonably safe way, which is Zope's way (after all, that's
where treating attributes as immutable is required if you want the 
persistent, and Zope's multithreaded); keep separate copies of the data
for each thread, and try to deal with conflicts as soon as the data is
writte to the object database. It seems to work fairly well; at least I
haven't experienced any significant problems with it yet.

> There are many techniques for making things "thread-safe" - if you are
> interested I would suggest doing a bit of research. There's not way I can
> explain it all here.

Oh, I realize that, I just wanted to know a little more detail about what
exactly you meant; I've done some research, just have minimal experience
with it in actual programs I wrote.

Thanks for your explanation!

Regards,

Martijn
-- 
History of the 20th Century: WW1, WW2, WW3?
No, WWW -- Could we be going in the right direction?


From shredwheat at mediaone.net  Tue Jan 23 12:19:51 2001
From: shredwheat at mediaone.net (Pete Shinners)
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 17:19:51 GMT
Subject: beep
References: <11941-3A6D0F37-61@storefull-166.iap.bryant.webtv.net> <gi9b6.91087$y9.17567648@typhoon.we.rr.com> <svhq6tkqdi6mq196jsbehto2m2i40299b5@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <X2jb6.95305$y9.17990767@typhoon.we.rr.com>

> :heh, i've found that
> :>>> print '\a'
> :
> :does a pretty good job on windows and unix.
> :although on windows this plays the system default beep wav,
> :it does not send noise to the speaker/buzzer
>
> This didn't work on my Win98 system with Python 2.0 installed, running IDLE.

hmm, perhaps it must be run from a console? probably not
the most robust way to get sound. heh





From loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de  Sat Jan 20 18:36:34 2001
From: loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de (Martin von Loewis)
Date: 21 Jan 2001 00:36:34 +0100
Subject: ImportError: undefined symbol
References: <slrn96gplf.8jf.hdemers@polar.astro.umontreal.ca>
Message-ID: <p6qn1clpzi5.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>

hdemers at venus.astro.umontreal.ca (Hugues Demers) writes:

> When in Python I import the module I get this error:
> 
> ImportError: ./gaPhotomodule.so: undefined symbol: __ls__7ostreamPCc
> 
> Can someone help me?

It's easy to resolve: this is a symbol defined by libstdc++, and you
did not link it with that library. So you either need to add -lstdc++
to your linker line, or you need to make sure c++ is used to link your
extension module, not gcc.

The more interesting question is: What did you *think* this message
would indicate? Never heard of ostream?

Regards,
Martin



From grante at visi.com  Tue Jan  2 12:57:38 2001
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2001 17:57:38 GMT
Subject: Controlling the Parallel Port
References: <mvuj4tkmn22gbth1a6t8fag39902qeeu9l@4ax.com> <92dgcc$5kk$1@saltmine.radix.net>
Message-ID: <mEo46.7772$4c.587847@ruti.visi.com>

Cary O'Brien wrote:
>Simon Faulkner  <News at Titanic.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>Is it easy to control (read/write) the Parallel Port in linux
>>using Python?
>>
>>I am hoping to use it to drive some simple electronics
>
>You need to do two things to access the parallel port from
>a user program.
>
>1) call ioperm() to get permissions to access the ports.  man ioperm
>   should provide the gory details.  Requires root access.
>
>2) use the inb() macro to read, and the outb() macro to write.  See
>   man outb for the gory details.  Pay attension to the note about using
>   -O or -O2 on the compile command line.  They matter.
>
>Now to access this from python, you can either 
[...]

The alternative way to access I/O ports is by doing open(),
lseek(), read(), write(), on /dev/port.  This is slower than
using the above method, but it can be done directly from Python
using the posix file-descriptor i/o stuff in the "os" module.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  PUNK ROCK!! DISCO
                                  at               DUCK!! BIRTH CONTROL!!
                               visi.com            


From pbjorn at uswest.net  Wed Jan  3 13:24:34 2001
From: pbjorn at uswest.net (Bjorn Pettersen)
Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 11:24:34 -0700
Subject: why no "do : until"?
References: <92jj3j$ff7$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <92m9pm$d19$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <B3z36.122$9s1.18804@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com> <3A4EC5B1.8912E571@engcorp.com> <x8G36.156$9s1.31209@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com> <3A4F4B4D.ECD6B172@engcorp.com> <rBr46.7783$4c.597712@ruti.visi.com> <slrn9550fe.rvi.kc5tja@garnet.armored.net> <dWG46.7998$4c.647371@ruti.visi.com> <slrn956io0.t0c.grey@teleute.rpglink.com>
Message-ID: <3A536E62.81BCD7EB@uswest.net>

Steve Lamb wrote:

> On Wed, 03 Jan 2001 14:45:29 GMT, Grant Edwards <grante at visi.com> wrote:
> > if (whatever) {
> >   do something;
> >   do something else;
> > } else {
> >   yet another thing;
> > }
>
> >I simply can't read read code like that, and generally do an
> >'indent -gnu' on it before I try to figure out what's going on...
>
>     I normally do a variation of this.
>
> if (whatever) {
>   do something;
>   do something else;
> }
> else {
>   yet another thing;
> }
>
>     This is so the ending brace is lined up with what it is ending.  The
> { else } in the middle of the K&R ruins that.  How does a } close a } !?!?!?
> In the one I write we see an if closed and an else closed.

So then you'd also write:

do {
    something;
}
while (condition);

to be consistent?  Seems ugly and inconsistent to me (the else isn't a statement,
it's part of the if ;-)

long-live-the-OTB'ly y'rs
-- bjorn




From f8dy at my-deja.com  Wed Jan 31 12:47:20 2001
From: f8dy at my-deja.com (Mark Pilgrim)
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 17:47:20 GMT
Subject: Joining lists
References: <mailman.980940576.15930.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <959j34$mse$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

In article <mailman.980940576.15930.python-list at python.org>,
  jurgen.defurne at philips.com wrote:
> Hello, list members,
>
> Is there a simple way of joining two list to form only one list,
like :=
>
> [1, 5, 6, 4] <join operation> [4, 6, 7] -> [1, 5, 6, 4, 4, 6, 7]

The extend method of a list will do this for you.

>>> li = [1, 5, 6, 4]
>>> li.extend([4, 6, 7])
[1, 5, 6, 4, 4, 6, 7]

You can also use the + operator.

>>> li = [1, 5, 6, 4]
>>> li + [4, 6, 7]
[1, 5, 6, 4, 4, 6, 7]

More examples of adding, removing, and finding items in lists:
http://diveintopython.org/odbchelper_list.html

Short summary of all list methods:
http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/typesseq-mutable.html

-M
--
You're smart; why haven't you learned Python yet?
http://diveintopython.org/


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From jeremy at alum.mit.edu  Mon Jan 29 20:35:23 2001
From: jeremy at alum.mit.edu (Jeremy Hylton)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 01:35:23 GMT
Subject: . Python 2.1 function attributes
References: <950j3l01se5@news2.newsguy.com> <mailman.980717974.17843.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9555or$umi$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

In article <mailman.980717974.17843.python-list at python.org>,
  "Tim Peters" <tim.one at home.com> wrote:
[Tim ending discussion of print >> with Alex:]
> On print>>, though, I'm afraid you two will never agree.  It's unclear
> whether Guido would make even plain "print" a statement again if the
> time machine's batteries were up to the task, but given that it is a
> statement, "print>>" looked like a natural, pleasant and useful
> extension.  I use it a lot; so does Barry; so does Guido.  That's 60%
> of his direct team. Don't know about Fred and Jeremy, but Fred is
> controversy-aversive and Jeremy probably doesn't want to hurt his
> standing in academia by admitting to secret vice <wink>.

Actually, it's more of a guilty pleasure than a secret vice.  I use it
all the time.

--
-- Jeremy Hylton, <http://www.python.org/~jeremy/>


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From roger_callisto at hotmail.com  Thu Jan 25 14:49:33 2001
From: roger_callisto at hotmail.com (Peter Yu)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 19:49:33 GMT
Subject: Python vs Ruby
References: <94mdkd$222e$1@news.adamastor.ac.za> <SRBb6.9880$d25.63606@newsfeed.slurp.net> <87itn4plf4.fsf@brimstone.mecha>
Message-ID: <94q008$nb$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

In article <87itn4plf4.fsf at brimstone.mecha>,
  Alexander Williams <thantos at telocity.com> wrote:

> If you REALLY want to go out of the mainstream, on both Linux and
> Windows, go hit http://www.erlang.org ...  Nothing beats the feeling
> of watching a single function go bouncing between your Linux and Win
> boxen running the same byrecode, packaging itself up and beaming its
> data across to the other node to compute on either/both ...

For something that's possibly more esoteric than Erlang, try Mozart-Oz.
(http://www.mozart-oz.org)  It combines functional, object oriented,
distributed, and constraint-based programming into one single language,
and it's runnable on most flavors of UNIXes and Windows, as well.


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Mon Jan 15 08:38:16 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 14:38:16 +0100
Subject: Mp3-module that extracts bitrate, length info
References: <0_Z76.1077$wt2.3267@news1.oke.nextra.no>
Message-ID: <93uukh03a4@news1.newsguy.com>

"Thomas Weholt" <thomas at cintra.no> wrote in message
news:0_Z76.1077$wt2.3267 at news1.oke.nextra.no...
> Hi,
>
> I need a module that can extract bitrate and length etc. fom mp3 files on
> Win32. I've tried mp3infor.py on Linux and it works great but it fails on
> Win32. ID3Tag.py and the rest I've found on Parnassus seem to only get
> artist, albumtitle, songname, genre and year, but I would really want to
get
> the length and bitrate too.
>
> If anybody can give me some hints that would be great. I could possibly be
> fixed using the source of the mp3infor.py module but I don't understand
the
> bit where it extracts the info I mentioned.

Just to try, I downloaded mp3.py from http://www.dotfunk.com/projects/mp3
and a sample mp3 file (not having audio on this box I don't have mp3's
around either),
http://www.aardvarkrecords.co.uk/elibowen/sounds/evesample.mp3,
and running mp3.py on the sample seems to work just fine on this win32 box:

D:\PySym>python mp3.py evesample.mp3
evesample.mp3
SS 17
BITRATE 32
FREQUENCY 22050
MM 1
COPYRIGHT 1
MODE 3
STEREO 0
VERSION 0
LAYER 2
TITLE Eve's Bread
COMMENT
ARTIST Eli Bowen
YEAR 1999
GENRE Rock
ALBUM Routine Uniform


Is this the specific module you were trying...?


Alex





From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sat Jan  6 11:02:49 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2001 17:02:49 +0100
Subject: Migrating to perl?
References: <3Fa56.4580$of7.216286@news1.atl><mailman.978670867.31055.python-list@python.org><V%c56.4648$of7.221797@news1.atl> <mailman.978707587.25701.python-list@python.org> <935093030hc@news2.newsguy.com> <j4t56.1073$4Z.78460@news2.atl>
Message-ID: <937o8801nva@news1.newsguy.com>

"Joel Ricker" <joejava at dragonat.net> wrote in message
news:j4t56.1073$4Z.78460 at news2.atl...
    [snip]
> An Excel interface may be a possibility as well.  I know that there is
work
> on an Excel module for perl thats coming along nicely -- only write
> capabilities for now though.

Write-only?  Seems _just_ the right job for Perl, then:-).

[Yah, yah, I know, we're not supposed to badmouth the competition, but
the coincidence with the thread's peculiar subject was irresistible...].


Alex





From fgeiger at datec.at  Thu Jan 25 03:33:36 2001
From: fgeiger at datec.at (Franz GEIGER)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 09:33:36 +0100
Subject: Why does using threads not speed up things?
Message-ID: <94oob9$ahq$1@newsreaderg1.core.theplanet.net>

I wrote a file synchronizer, which copies newer files to a backup
destination and there deletes files that don't exist anymore on the source.
The synch source and the synch destination are connected by a LAN. So I
thought it would be a good idea to scan the source and the destination in
parallel, using two threads. I expected a performance gain of let's say 30
%.

So I did a few tests and wrote a sample programm that gathers file names. It
does this in 2 tasks: Task 1 gathers the file names on the source, task 2 on
the destination. To be able to compare this version with the one is used
until now, I did it that way too: First scan the source, then scan the
destination. I called the former multithreaded version and the latter
singlethreaded version.

The singlethreaded version took 1900 seconds to execute, the multithreaded
version took 1600 seconds. The gain is 300 seconds, which is about 15 %
faster than the singlethreaded version.

If source and destination lies on the same machine, there is no significant
difference in performance.

As I said I'd expected more, because there is a lot of slow disk I/O
involved and data transfer over a 10MBit section of our LAN. Or did I miss
something?

Best regards
Franz GEIGER






From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Mon Jan 15 07:17:30 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 13:17:30 +0100
Subject: Python and ODBC?
References: <93tfo0$12p$1@ryu.it>
Message-ID: <93upsf02pvl@news1.newsguy.com>

"Ryujin" <ryu-jin at bigfoot.com> wrote in message news:93tfo0$12p$1 at ryu.it...
> Which is the best solution to work with python and a SQL database under
Windows?

So much depends on what _scale_ you need to work...!  Multi-user, or
single?  Do you need transactions, stored procedures/triggers, etc?
Even typical database size is a factor.

For really small-scale needs, for example, Gadfly has interesting
characteristics -- you might want to look into it -- but it is not
designed to scale up to intensive multi-user accesses or really
huge databases.

So, hard to give a 100% answer, but, if you're Windows-only, you might
want to try MSDE, the freely-redistributable version of SQL Server
(shorn of the various graphical front-ends &c); you can download and
use/redistribute it freely if you have a license for Microsoft Studio
or Office Developer.  It scales well up to 5 simultaneous users, and
has all the trimmings you'd expect from a professional RDBMS, such
as transactions, stored-procedures, etc, etc.  If you don't care about
redistribution, you can also download and use (but not redistribute)
SQL Server Developer Edition, which is the same thing plus the
graphical aids for DB administration/development/debugging.

It does have an upper boundary of 2 gigabytes per database -- which
was not a problem for us, but might be in other applications.

I have not tried out the versions of those related to SQL Server 2000,
only the ones related to SQL Server 7 (the previous release), which
were still around for download on the MS site a couple months ago
(sorry, don't have the URL and don't know if they're still there, as
I found out the same bits also were on our MSDN Universal subscription
CDROM's, so I saved downloading the big packs) -- in any case, I have
no reason to doubt that SQL Server 2000 is at least as good (but I
only did a few tests on that myself, and not on the MSDE-equivalents).

> I mean which module do I have to install on Python 2.0?

That's part of what I like re MSDE -- you can talk to it directly
from Python via ADO and ADOX (the client-side parts of the MSDAC,
which is also freely downloadable/redistributable), and that turns
out to be VERY fast as well as quite convenient.  It may be more so
in our case since we don't _only_ use Python to talk to those DB's;
ADO/ADOX can be accessed equally well from a great variety of
programming/scripting languages.

Really, the only serious downside I can see is the very strong
Microsoft lock-in that is implicit in all of this.  Since our app
was MS-platforms-only anyway for another variety of reason, I
chose MSDE with a perfectly clear conscience.  If I had to avoid
platform lock-ins, and still get transactions and stored procedures
(each of those being a real 'must' for us), then, I dunno -- maybe
Interbase, now open-source, has those, but I don't really know
much about it; maybe Postgres (again, no first-hand experience).


> What about under Linux? I'm trying to install mxODBC module with MySQL db
> on a Linuxppc box.

I'll pass on this one, having no experience with MySQL (I don't even
know if it supports transactions and stored procedures!).  I do know
it's very popular, so I guess one can't go TOO far wrong with it.


Alex





From jasonic at nomadicsltd.com  Sun Jan 28 07:02:47 2001
From: jasonic at nomadicsltd.com (Jason Cunliffe)
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 07:02:47 -0500
Subject: [Off topic] allowed to put Python material on the Web?
References: <3a730931.31998180@news.skynet.be> <3a73f8fe.5827960@news.skynet.be>
Message-ID: <t782ck80orf5cb@corp.supernews.com>

Daniel <Daniel.Kinnaer at Advalvas.be> wrote in message
news:3a73f8fe.5827960 at news.skynet.be...

> 1) ask the author permission to do so
>
> 2) give full detail of who actually gave the answer to a question
>
> 3) I will not use the material for commercial use, nor will I
>    sell the information to others or publish it in a magazine.
<
> If you think that I missed something here, please feel free to add
> your comments/remarks.

Daniel

One you missed perhaps. Unless there is any objection, How about:

4) As you are making your site, submit your good stuff from time to time to
'The Vaults of Parnassus' and 'pythonFAQTS'

This is the #1 resource and is beautifully done.
While mostly focused on Python Modules, it does have tutorials and stuff
there.
It is so clearly laid out, fast while one is still on Parnassus _before_ one
has to link off to somewhere else adn get burined in complex doumetation,
history, versoins etc. Especially now that sourcforge taskes forever to
respond [crashes my browser constantly 8-(].

Parnassus is the only first pass site for comparative Python searches. What
is missing there imho, are links to sensible groupings of help topics, finer
points etc, many of which relate to the use of modules/techniques listed.

Hopefully you can contribute small nugget wrapper desciptions for Parnassus
linking back to your own editorial collection pages, based on this
newsgroups and more. I think this would be great resource all round.

It might even help you structure your site in interesting and suitable ways,
for example including refernces href foot notes, leading directly to the
Parnassus listings. For example, a news thread discussion on db APIs, or
python web tools would be nicely complemented with focused links locally
associated, the way the best e*zines do. Cameron Laird's, The Python pages
on O'Reilly, Jon Udell's, Byte pages. etc..you know who they are

All of this implies the new 21st millenium editon of http://www.python.org
site which hopefully will emerge over the next many months [eta=Harvest
Festival Full Moon 2001?/halloween]


good luck!
Jason
___________________________________________________________
Jason CUNLIFFE = NOMADICS['Interactive Art and Technology']




From paul at gudge.demon.co.uk  Mon Jan  8 04:52:57 2001
From: paul at gudge.demon.co.uk (Paul Goodyear)
Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2001 09:52:57 GMT
Subject: Grab text from html with user and pass???
Message-ID: <Z5g66.16889$0x5.1386532@news3.cableinet.net>

I am trying to pull out a Ip address from a .html file,

I have done this successfully already BUT,

The site has a password, the username is blank and the pass word is ****
blah blah

When I run the

[code]      url.urlopen('http://www.blah.com/ip.html')

all I get is "Enter username for ** at ** :"   if i press just return I am
then asked for the password, after entering the password the process just
keeps repeating.

I know for well that the password is correct, I just need it to accept a
blank username

Regards,

Paul Goodyear




From phd at phd.pp.ru  Wed Jan 24 11:43:33 2001
From: phd at phd.pp.ru (Oleg Broytmann)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 19:43:33 +0300 (MSK)
Subject: urllib.urlretrieve("http://free.bsdshell.net/")
In-Reply-To: <ku3de89b4z.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0101241942380.17716-100000@fep132.fep.ru>

On 24 Jan 2001, Erno Kuusela wrote:
> |    I tried urllib on different computers in two different networks.
> | Probably the site does not like my User-Agent. Will try to find the reason.
> |    Thanks.
>
> i think the user-agent theory cannot work, because client
> cannot have sent the user-agent string if the connect() call
> faills with "connetion refused" :)

   Then the site filters me out just because, without any reason :))) But
it rejects only urllib - any browser will do its job right!

Oleg.
----
     Oleg Broytmann            http://phd.pp.ru/            phd at phd.pp.ru
           Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN.




From glandrum at my-deja.com  Thu Jan 25 19:00:18 2001
From: glandrum at my-deja.com (Greg Landrum)
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 00:00:18 GMT
Subject: Tkinter vs wxPython: your opinions?
References: <3A6F899F.E164F628@home.com>
Message-ID: <94qeme$ep4$1@nnrp1.deja.com>


There's already been a lot of good stuff posted in this thread, but
I'll go ahead and toss in my several cents.

I've used both toolkits a reasonable amount, but I switched to wxPython
exclusively about a year ago.  I'll try and explain why below, maybe
I'll even succeed in doing so comprehensibly.

Overview:
Tkinter feels easier.  It's simple to open a window, put stuff in it,
and end up with something useable.

wxPython is more complicated, you have to do more stuff to get an
application started.  This can be a barrier to entry.  I like to have
stuff up and running RIGHT NOW and that was harder to make happen in
wxPython.  Of course, it's just like doing X programming: you write the
startup code once (or borrow it from someone else) and then never worry
about it again.

Documentation:
The documentation for Tkinter used to be a problem, but it has
improved a lot over the past couple of years.  John Grayson's book
helps a lot, as does the expansion of Fredrik Lundh's online docs.

When I first started using wxPython, I was really impressed with the
quantity of documentation distributed with it.  Most every class is
well documented and there are a number of overviews as well.  The
downside is that the sheer volume of documentation is intimidating...
there's a lot to read and finding what you want isn't always trivial.
Luckily, Robin includes a great demo with the package which includes
sample code for all the widgets.  This is enough to get you started with
a widget, the rest of the stuff can be found in the docs.

One very important thing to remember is that wxwindows is MUCH more
than a GUI toolkit.  There is all kinds of cross-platform functionality
in there that (I think) isn't even exposed in wxPython.  This makes
the docs look bigger and scarier than they actually are.

The wxPython mailing list is also a good source of information and help.

Speed:
This is much harder to evaluate.  I found that stuff I wrote in Tkinter
almost always felt slow.  I could generally improve this by profiling,
reading the Tkinter source, and optimizing my code.  For many operations
on the canvas, it's pretty easy to get factors of 5-10 in speed
improvement if you can make assumptions about what you are doing.  This
isn't always pleasant to do, but it works.  I'm guessing that Fredrik's
new Tkinter stuff is going to help out a lot on this front... at least
that's how he advertises it and I believe him.

My wxPython apps normally feel pretty fast, so I don't find myself
needing to spend time trying to optimize them.

Widget sets:
Both toolkits have a good set of widgets available (as long as you
use PMW with Tkinter).  Each has, however, one really cool thing
that the other doesn't.

Tkinter has the canvas.  If you are doing graphics, the canvas is just
amazingly cool.  It is very very flexible and easy to use.  wxPython
does not have anything which is even close.  Of course, last I used
it Tcl/Tk was still incapable of drawing dashed lines unless you applied
a patch.  So no dashed lines on your canvas.  I don't understand this
omission from Tcl/Tk, but I learned to live with it.

wxPython has wxGrid, a very powerful spreadsheet-type widget.  The grid
is the primary reason I switched to using wxPython.  I needed that
functionality and writing it yourself is just nightmare.

Appearance:
This is, of course, purely subjective.  I don't like the way Tcl/Tk
applications look.  I can't really put my finger on one thing in
particular, but they just don't strike me as being right.

wxPython uses native widgets, so it looks just great on my Windows box.
When I run it under Linux, it looks just as mediocre as the other apps
written using GTK.

Portability:
My Tkinter apps worked just great on every OS I tried.
The wxwindows docs let you know when you are going to get into trouble,
so it's fairly easy to avoid problems.  That said, to the best of my
knowledge, there is still no Mac version of the more recent versions
of wxwindows.

Stability:
Tkinter wins here in a big way.  Tcl/Tk (and Tkinter) strike me as
being stable and mature.  wxwindows is still under active development.
This can easily rear up and bite you on the ass.  There have been
instances where APIs change between releases (one, in particular,
involving wxGrid caused me to have to go back and fix a bunch of code).
The docs also sometimes lag a bit (wxGrid, my favorite widget, *still*
doesn't have current docs even though the new Grid has been around for
more than 6 months).


Misc:
Both toolkits have really good spiritual leaders.  Both Robin and
Fredrik are active in the newsgroups and are very helpful.

The original poster mentioned xmlrpc.  I assume that this works with
Tkinter, I know that it is just fine with wxPython.


Hmm... I've reached the end of my brain dump and I realize that I didn't
really explain why I'm still using wxPython.  Oh well... it must be
that damn wxGrid.  ;-)

I hope this helps in some way,
-greg




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From gregory_wilson at my-deja.com  Wed Jan 10 10:48:44 2001
From: gregory_wilson at my-deja.com (gregory_wilson at my-deja.com)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 15:48:44 GMT
Subject: SAX ContentHandler / nbsp ?
Message-ID: <93i08n$trb$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

I'm trying to build simple filter for some legacy
HTML by deriving from xml.sax.ContentHandler.
Right now, it dies when it hits the "&nbsp;"
entity.  What is the simplest way to handle
this?  Do I need an explicit DTD?  Can I register
entities with the parser w/out a DTD? Can I build
an error handler that'll trap unknown entities
and tell the parser "never mind, it's OK"?

Thanks,
Greg


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From paulp at ActiveState.com  Wed Jan 24 23:18:36 2001
From: paulp at ActiveState.com (Paul Prescod)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 20:18:36 -0800
Subject: python-2.1 function attributes
References: <ul3snm8dfae.fsf@smaug.fsl.noaa.gov> <m3n1cgzvpj.fsf@atrus.jesus.cam.ac.uk> <ul3ofwwddsy.fsf@smaug.fsl.noaa.gov>
Message-ID: <3A6FA91C.5AC9FD09@ActiveState.com>

Mike Romberg wrote:
> 
> ...
> 
>   The second syntax proposed in pep 232 does not strike me as
> elegant.  But, it does seem to be consistant with doc strings in that
> they are defined (but not referenced) first thing in the function
> definition:
> 
> def spam():
>     """The doc string."""
>     { 'attribute1' : 'val1', 'attribute2' : val2 }
>     pass

I proposed a similar syntax to Guido a couple of years ago and he
pointed out that it is unclear whether "val2" should be evaluated in the
runtime context of spam() or in the global context. The former is what
the syntax suggests but the latter is the only way to have the feature
work properly.

 Paul Prescod



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Thu Jan 25 12:25:21 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 18:25:21 +0100
Subject: win32com.client - need some help
References: <94mjj8$v3g$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <94mrs102b3i@news2.newsguy.com> <94pa5c$aqb$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <94pni302k2g@news2.newsguy.com>

<zippy1984 at my-deja.com> wrote in message news:94pa5c$aqb$1 at nnrp1.deja.com...
>
> >
> > Pretty unusual VB usage, but, yes, it does happen.  It's unclear
    [snip]
> Here is a snip of the IDL file:
>
>    HRESULT getDictionary([out] IDispatch** pDictionary);
>    [id(0x12345678)]

Unusual ([out] is generally [out,retval]) but OK.

> >     dic = ob.getDictionary()
>
> Yes, I am able to call this way using the generated classes, and also
> without...  This is what happens:
>
> >>> dic = ob.getDictionary()
> >>> dic
> <COMObject getDictionary>

That type for dic sounds strange, and I'm also surprised you
say this works at all WITHOUT makepy support.

> I find this strange...getDictionary is just the method, in VB I here
> get an instance of the IDictionary, which has the getValue method
> I need (IDictionary is a subclass of IDispatch).  This is what
> happens now:
>
> >>> val = dic.getValue('Version')
> Traceback (innermost last):
>   File "<interactive input>", line 1, in ?
>   File "C:\Python20\win32com\client\dynamic.py", line 435, in
> __getattr__
>     raise AttributeError, "%s.%s", % (self._username_, attr)
> AttributeError: getDictionary.getValue
> >>>
>
> Not unexpected, as getDictionary does not have a getValue method....
>
>
> So, what is going on here?  Any idea?

What happens if you do a dir(dic.__class__) -- what methods
does this class expose?  IS it a makepy-generated class?  If
it isn't, then there's some trouble brewing.


Alex





From roth at teleport.com  Thu Jan 18 12:42:52 2001
From: roth at teleport.com (tony roth)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 09:42:52 -0800
Subject: win ce and python
Message-ID: <e026ZYXgAHA.268@cpmsnbbsa07>

is there anything going on with python and win ce devices it seems to be
kinda dead.  Any ideas or suggestions.
thanks
tr




From scarblac at pino.selwerd.nl  Tue Jan  9 06:35:24 2001
From: scarblac at pino.selwerd.nl (Remco Gerlich)
Date: 9 Jan 2001 11:35:24 GMT
Subject: Web devel with python. Whats the best route?
References: <mailman.978910629.6814.python-list@python.org> <93cqvi0191h@news1.newsguy.com> <mailman.978985688.26505.python-list@python.org> <93dfft077p@news1.newsguy.com> <mailman.979000510.4052.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrn95ltl8.45d.scarblac@pino.selwerd.nl>

D-Man <dsh8290 at rit.edu> wrote in comp.lang.python:
> On Mon, Jan 08, 2001 at 11:30:26PM +0100, Alex Martelli wrote:
> | "Lele Gaifax" <lele at seldati.it> wrote in message
> | 
> | > PS: Alex, un ciao particolare! Ti ricordi di me? Sublink... :)
> | 
> | E vorrei vedere, che ci si potesse scordare della gloriosa sublink.org e
> | di tutti i suoi protagonisti...!-)  Ciao Lele!
> | 
> 
> You do realize that it's impolite to "whisper" in public?  Now I'm
> curious to know what you are talking about.  But maybe it's my own
> fault for being "deaf"  <wink>.

Precies. Dit is de Python groep, horen we niet allemaal Nederlands
te praten?

-- 
Remco Gerlich


From mikael at isy.liu.se  Fri Jan 19 10:04:52 2001
From: mikael at isy.liu.se (Mikael Olofsson)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 16:04:52 +0100 (MET)
Subject: How to run script from interpreter?
In-Reply-To: <6176E3D8E36FD111B58900805FA7E0F80CCF62DC@mcnc-mdm1-ex01>
Message-ID: <XFMail.010119160452.mikael@isy.liu.se>

On 19-Jan-01 Rolander, Dan wrote:
 >  See, I knew it was something simple. Thanks for pointing me in the right
 >  direction!
 >  
 >  One more thing, is there a way to pass a command line parameter to the
 >  script named in execfile? Say if I have a script to test which expects a
 >  value in sys.argv[1]?

I'm afraid that's beyond me. You'll have to wait for someone else to
jump in.

/Mikael

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WWW:     http://www.dtr.isy.liu.se/dtr/staff/mikael               
Phone:   +46 - (0)13 - 28 1343
Telefax: +46 - (0)13 - 28 1339
Date:    19-Jan-01
Time:    16:03:21

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From aahz at panix.com  Tue Jan 30 13:51:45 2001
From: aahz at panix.com (Aahz Maruch)
Date: 30 Jan 2001 10:51:45 -0800
Subject: Python thread
References: <95712k$g0j$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <9572g1$nf5$1@panix6.panix.com>

In article <95712k$g0j$1 at nnrp1.deja.com>,  <golgo__13 at my-deja.com> wrote:
>
>Python thread document sucks!  It all seems to just handwave the
>issue by saying it's close to Java thread model, but since I do
>not know it, it's not very useful.

Check out http://starship.python.net/crew/aahz/ for a bit more help.

>Anyway, I need to do something very simple, and I hope someone can
>help me.  Basically I need to launch four threads and combine the
>result.  One is CPU intensive and the other threeo are IO
>intensive and it needs no communication between.  Right now it's
>done in linear way like so:
>a=funcA()
>b=funcB()
>c=funcC()
>d=funcD()
>e=a+b+c+d
>
>How can I get funcA(),funcB(),funcC() and funcD() started all at the
>same time?

You'll need to do something like this:

threads = []
threads.append(A())
threads.append(B())
threads.append(C())
threads.append(D())
for thread in threads:
    thread.start()
total = 0
for thread in threads:
    thread.join()
    total += thread.result

(A(), B(), C(), and D() create class instances, subclassing
threading.Thread().)
-- 
                      --- Aahz (Copyright 2001 by aahz at pobox.com)

Androgynous poly kinky vanilla queer het    <*>     http://www.rahul.net/aahz/
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6

"People sometimes focus too much on the fact of communication rather than
the substance of communication."  --Dave Morton


From loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de  Mon Jan  1 08:57:55 2001
From: loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de (Martin von Loewis)
Date: 01 Jan 2001 14:57:55 +0100
Subject: Recursive inner function... How?
References: <3A4FA0EF.BF94F4BD@uswest.net>
Message-ID: <p6qbstrs7bw.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Bjorn Pettersen <pbjorn at uswest.net> writes:

>     def outer():
>         def inner(inner):
>                inner(inner)
>         inner(inner)
> 
>     outer()
> 
> Please tell me I'm doing something wrong?

I'd say you try to use local functions in the wrong place. Just make
inner a global function; perhaps naming it _inner so it won't be
imported by accident.

Regards,
Martin


From moshez at zadka.site.co.il  Mon Jan 15 22:02:55 2001
From: moshez at zadka.site.co.il (Moshe Zadka)
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 05:02:55 +0200 (IST)
Subject: python -O -u vs. -Ou
In-Reply-To: <3A6343FF.174BB2B7@schlund.de>
References: <3A6343FF.174BB2B7@schlund.de>
Message-ID: <20010116030255.8F33AA828@darjeeling.zadka.site.co.il>

On Mon, 15 Jan 2001 19:39:59 +0100, Carsten Gaebler <cg at schlund.de> wrote:

> There seems to be a difference between
> 
> #! /usr/bin/python -O -u
> 
> and
> 
> #! /usr/bin/python -Ou

It depends a *lot* on your kernel. In general, it is not portable
to put more than one option in the #! line.

-- 
Moshe Zadka <sig at zadka.site.co.il>
This is a signature anti-virus. 
Please stop the spread of signature viruses!



From MarkH at ActiveState.com  Thu Jan 18 13:08:12 2001
From: MarkH at ActiveState.com (Mark Hammond)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 18:08:12 GMT
Subject: python compiled to native in less than a year?
References: <kcF86.6006$J%.594457@news.flash.net> <Pine.GSO.4.21.0101151106200.7702-100000@z.glue.umd.edu> <8pF86.6015$J%.595435@news.flash.net> <0luc6toovfccbqspkvc0dkqkuc5dck7u51@4ax.com> <946coc130tl@news2.newsguy.com> <qcE96.8755$J%.858944@news.flash.net> <9476fp015jj@news2.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <947be4$hst$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

In article <9476fp015jj at news2.newsguy.com>,
  "Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Still, it's _great_ to know that Python will be in on the game,
> whether .NET floats or sinks!-)  Just don't expect to get some
> magical performance boost by 'compiled to native' mantras...!-)

Amen to that, brother ;-)

Mark.


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From mfletch at tpresence.com  Fri Jan 26 17:04:26 2001
From: mfletch at tpresence.com (Mike Fletcher)
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 17:04:26 -0500
Subject: how to import GLUT??
Message-ID: <CC59868A0A76D311B1F50090277B321C1E148F@VRTMAIL>

from OpenGL.GLUT import *

For a more in-depth look, see the context-creation documentation of the
PyOpenGL project (it includes a GLUT context).
	http://pyopengl.sourceforge.net/documentation/context/index.html

HTH,
Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: ABDENOUR HADID [mailto:hadidab at yahoo.fr]
Sent: Friday, January 26, 2001 3:13 PM
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: how to import GLUT??


hello,
I am  just beginner in python.
i have installed python and pyopengl on windows.
I tried to execute one scipt toto.py which contain:

from glut import *
def display():
    print 'display'
    .....

but I receive one error : import error : no module
named glut...

may be I have to specify the path of this file? how to
do? the glut is found in /python/opengl/glut/ ...is
the the correct file?

need I other modules?

Thank you for your help.






___________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!? -- Pour dialoguer en direct avec vos amis, 
Yahoo! Messenger : http://fr.messenger.yahoo.com

-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list



From morley at Borokay.ai.sri.com  Mon Jan  8 21:10:55 2001
From: morley at Borokay.ai.sri.com (David Morley)
Date: 08 Jan 2001 18:10:55 -0800
Subject: why no "do : until"?
In-Reply-To: Peter Schneider-Kamp's message of Tue, 09 Jan 2001 00:41:07 +0000
References: <932r3e010bd@news1.newsguy.com>
	<mailman.978660367.22251.python-list@python.org>
	<fvy9wlztq2.fsf@Borokay.AI.SRI.COM>
	<mailman.978997336.1886.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <fvwvc5zd8w.fsf@Borokay.AI.SRI.COM>

Peter Schneider-Kamp writes:

>   David Morley wrote:
>   > 
>   > What would be wrong with:
>   > 
>   > class Indexing:
>   >     def __init__(self, thing):
>   >         self.thing = thing
>   >     def __getitem__(self, index):
>   >         return (index, self.thing[index])
>   > 
>   > for (i,x) in Indexing(a):
>   >     ...
>
>   The efficiency. "for indexing" as proposed by Tim can
>   be implemented using the loop counter.

This also uses the loop counter rather than constructing an intermediate
list of indices.  There is the inefficiency of packing and unpacking the
(i,x) tuples, but I would hope that would be insignificant in Python.

Like Tim's suggestion, and unlike the standard "for i in range(len(a)):", it
can be used with objects whose length you don't know for sure (e.g., those
cute classes that iterate over the lines in a file reading in one line at a
time).  However this approach does not require any syntactic change to the
language.

David


From root at rainerdeyke.com  Wed Jan 10 23:36:25 2001
From: root at rainerdeyke.com (Rainer Deyke)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 04:36:25 GMT
Subject: new enum idiom
References: <G6qzLy.6Fo@world.std.com> <938jmh$919$1@animus.fel.iae.nl> <3A58B9C0.9F2A5CC0@collins.rockwell.com> <93an8v02d2n@news1.newsguy.com> <93dde1$8d2$1@animus.fel.iae.nl> <93f3nb023mv@news1.newsguy.com> <90259DC4Arcamesz@127.0.0.1> <93i57b01qms@news2.newsguy.com> <fC576.21284$ge4.9901878@news2.rdc2.tx.home.com> <8N876.2727$24.36420@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <dLa76.23300$ge4.10502317@news2.rdc2.tx.home.com>

"Steve Holden" <sholden at holdenweb.com> wrote in message
news:8N876.2727$24.36420 at e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com...
> "Rainer Deyke" <root at rainerdeyke.com> wrote in message
> > >>> enum('foo', bar=32, 'fee')
> > SyntaxError: non-keyword arg after keyword arg

> This seems a little obtuse. What would be wrong with
>
>     enum('foo', 'bar=32', 'fee')

Oh, right.  That would work, but I don't like it.  Parsed string arguments
lead to the dark side.  It's only a small step to this:

enum('foo, bar=32, fee')

When that happens, we are no longer using the same language.


--
Rainer Deyke (root at rainerdeyke.com)
Shareware computer games           -           http://rainerdeyke.com
"In ihren Reihen zu stehen heisst unter Feinden zu kaempfen" - Abigor




From db3l at fitlinxx.com  Fri Jan 26 21:09:28 2001
From: db3l at fitlinxx.com (David Bolen)
Date: 26 Jan 2001 21:09:28 -0500
Subject: Scripting WMI with win32com
References: <uitn2sw1z.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com> <uzUALT#hAHA.291@cpmsnbbsa09>
Message-ID: <uhf2l925j.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com>

"Roger Upole" <rupole at msn.com> writes:

> Here's an example of how to call the Terminate method of a Win32_Process
> instance,
> where proc is the process object:
> 
> meth = proc.Methods_('Terminate')
> parms=meth.InParameters
> parms.Properties_('Reason').Value=69
> proc.ExecMethod_('Terminate',parms)

Ah - I had gotten as far as ExecMethod_ but then got lost in the
VBScript examples using SpawnInstance_ and stuff.  This really isn't
too bad overall (and the result and out parameters are easy to access
in the resulting object).

Thanks a bunch.

--
-- David
-- 
/-----------------------------------------------------------------------\
 \               David Bolen            \   E-mail: db3l at fitlinxx.com  /
  |             FitLinxx, Inc.            \  Phone: (203) 708-5192    |
 /  860 Canal Street, Stamford, CT  06902   \  Fax: (203) 316-5150     \
\-----------------------------------------------------------------------/


From mal at lemburg.com  Thu Jan 11 08:22:12 2001
From: mal at lemburg.com (M.-A. Lemburg)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 14:22:12 +0100
Subject: mxTools (was Re: why no "do : until"?)
References: <31575A892FF6D1118F5800600846864D5B16D8@intrepid>
Message-ID: <3A5DB384.50F24962@lemburg.com>

Simon Brunning wrote:
> 
> > From: M.-A. Lemburg [SMTP:mal at lemburg.com]
> > > As far as I can see, mxDateTime doesn't have restrictions in its license
> > -
> > > it's mxODBC which does.
> > >
> > > Is this right, Marc?
> >
> > Right.
> >
> > But please note that I wouldn't really want mxDateTime to go into
> > the core: the reason is that the mx Extensions will soon be available
> > as three packages under a new top-level package name "mx" -- I wouldn't
> > want to rip mxDateTime out of that context.
> 
> Fair enough. (Which are the other two packages going into your forthcoming
> 'mx' package, and which are staying separate? And why 'mx', anyway? I've
> always wanted to know that...)

I am currently planning to release the following bundles:

mx-BASE:
	BeeBase - flat file btree* database
	Counter - counter type
	DateTime - date/time types
	HTMLTools - tools for dealing with HTML files
	Log.py - generic log reporting tool
	Misc - some misc tools needed by all other extensions
	Proxy - wraps Python object in proxies; weak references;
               attribute access control
	Queue - a fast queue type
	Stack - a fast stack type
	TextTools - tools for fast text processing
	Tools - nice to have addons and builtins

mx-COMMERCIAL:
	ODBC - Python ODBC interface; v2.0 will have experimental
               Unicode support

mx-CRYPTO:
	Crypto - cryptography interface to OpenSSL

There are some more sub-packages which will be moved to either
mx-BASE or mx-COMMERCIAL after some more refinement. I'm not
sure when these will be released, but I will add them to the
set.

mx-EXPERIMENTAL:
	ObjectStore - experimental OO-database built on top of
              mx.ODBC
	HTMLTools - tools for dealing with HTML files
	UID - unique identifier type; good for user tracking etc.
	URL - URL type

BTW, "mx" stands for "Marc's eXtensions" -- I don't remember why
I chose such a silly name, but have to live with it now, since the
"mx" prefix has become a very well-known identifier within the
Python world.
 
> > BTW, mxODBC v2.0 will then no longer be free for commercial use. I put
> > a moderate license fee on it to at least produce some funding for mxODBC
> > and the other mx Extensions  -- the old mxODBC license just didn't
> > work out, so I had to take this step.
> 
> When is this going to happen, and how much is it going to cost? (You have
> *no* *idea* how long it takes to get a purchase request through my
> organisation!)

Plans are to release it by the end of January. It all depends
on when I find time for building the egenix.com web-site (I'm
currently swamped with projects related to our Python-based
application server).
 
> > mxODBC will still remain free for non-commercial use, e.g. for personal
> > and non-profit organizations, and as before you get full source code
> > with it, so you still have all the advantages of being able to adapt
> > the code to your needs.
> 
> So I can play with it at home, but I have to pay for it if I use it for
> work. Sounds fair enough.

Right. Commercial users will also get a 30-day trial period
to test the software prior to buying it. Schools and other
non-commercial entities don't have to pay either, since I
want to support the use of Python in education.

-- 
Marc-Andre Lemburg
______________________________________________________________________
Company:                                        http://www.egenix.com/
Consulting:                                    http://www.lemburg.com/
Python Pages:                           http://www.lemburg.com/python/



From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Jan  1 23:59:16 2001
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 01 Jan 2001 23:59:16 -0500
Subject: why no "do : until"?
References: <92jj3j$ff7$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <slrn94shbe.150.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <X8s36.2731$Qb7.305339@newsb.telia.net> <slrn94smds.150.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <FOt36.17$vd1.2224@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com> <slrn94t1vj.150.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <3A4E95FD.D6C737A7@engcorp.com> <92maie$cfo$3@newshost.accu.uu.nl> <mailman.978383941.17836.python-list@python.org> <F9c46.218953$U46.6640877@news1.sttls1.wa.home.com> <mailman.978408902.4646.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3A516024.5E835AFC@engcorp.com>

D-Man wrote:
> 
> dountil x > 25 :
>         ...
> 
> This is really what I meant, and the semantics would be to execute the
> loop once then test the condition.

I would be concerned about the wisdom of a syntax where the condition is
specified at the top of the loop but executed at the bottom.  Far too much
potential for confusion.  Given Python's original focus on usability for
beginners, adding such a structure would be a bad thing.


From scarblac at pino.selwerd.nl  Thu Jan 18 06:43:42 2001
From: scarblac at pino.selwerd.nl (Remco Gerlich)
Date: 18 Jan 2001 11:43:42 GMT
Subject: Location of variables
References: <9456a4$8bi$1@pulp.srv.ualberta.ca>
Message-ID: <slrn96dldi.jh8.scarblac@pino.selwerd.nl>

Grzegorz Dostatni <grzegorz at ohaton.cs.ualberta.ca> wrote in comp.lang.python:
> Is there a way in Python to find out the memory location of variables?  
> Something like 
> 
> def s():
> 	pass
> 
> print s
> 
> will print the type and memory location of s.  
> Is there something like that if s is just a simple variable?  
> (int for example).

That address is the id() of s (try print hex(id(s))). You can take the id()
of any object. This is the object's address in the current C implementation
of Python, but I don't know if that's guaranteed to stay.

Insert the appropriate warning lights and stuff here.

-- 
Remco Gerlich


From phil at river-bank.demon.co.uk  Wed Jan 10 14:53:27 2001
From: phil at river-bank.demon.co.uk (Phil Thompson)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 19:53:27 +0000
Subject: COMMERCIAL: BlackAdder Windows/Linux Python/Qt Development Environment
Message-ID: <3A5CBDB7.F82290B9@river-bank.demon.co.uk>

THEKOMPANY.COM RELEASES BLACK ADDER, A WINDOWS/LINUX
DEVELOPMENT ENVIRONMENT FOR PYTHON
 
theKompany.com is pleased to announce the release of its Windows/Linux
GUI
development environment for Python, BlackAdder.  BlackAdder combines a
visual design environment with debugging, syntax highlighting, ODBC
interfaces and extensive HTML documentation into a comprehensive
platform
for developing Python applications.
 
We worked with Trolltech, the creators of the Qt windowing toolkit on
which
BlackAdder is based on and eGenix, creators of the multi-platform ODBC
interfaces for Python known as mxODBC, and were able to derive a license
arrangement to bring the most power and flexibility to BlackAdder".
 
What is especially exciting that BlackAdder not only runs on Linux and
Windows, it generates applications that will run on either system as
well.
This protects your investment in development by enabling you to develop
and
deploy your applications almost anywhere. Unlike similar products,
BlackAdder includes all the elements needed for developing complete
applications and the rights to re-distribute the necessary run-time
elements, highlights of the BlackAdder are:
 
- An IDE that organizes your Python scripts and GUI designs into easy to
manage
projects.
- An editor that includes highlighting of Python keywords and code
folding.
- An interactive Python interpreter (v2.0) that allows you to execute
any
Python commands while your application is running.
- The Qt GUI toolkit (v2.2.3) from Trolltech.
- A GUI designer with all the features of Qt Designer from Trolltech
that
generates Python code.
- A debugger that supports single stepping and breakpoints.
- ODBC database connectivity (using mxODBC v2.0 from eGenix).
- Over 50Mbytes of HTML documentation.
 
BlackAdder is available in two editions, "Personal" aimed more at the
home
hobbyist and "Business", both editions produce the same high quality,
professional applications the only restriction is the ability to create
proprietary applications for resell.  The pricing and differences are
described below, note the special discount pricing during the initial
beta
period:

BlackAdder Personal Edition
Includes:
- Python
- PyQt
- Qt
- Comprehensive HTML documentation
- mxODBC (ODBC for Python)
- IDE (including GUI designer, editor and debugger)
- 20% discount voucher for any book from O'Reilly
License: For personal home use only, not allowed to re-distribute Qt or
mxODBC.
Cost: $79.99 ($49.99 if purchased during the Beta period).
Support: Informal mailing list.
Updates: $59.99 per year for up to 4 updates per year ($39.99 during the
Beta period)
 
BlackAdder Business Edition
Includes: Same as the Personal Edition.
License: For commercial use. Those BlackAdder components needed to
provide
a run-time environment (ie. Python, PyQt, Qt) may be re-distributed at
no
extra cost. One mxODBC license is included in the purchase price, valid
mxODBC licenses must be obtained for any additional installations of
generated software using the mxODBC component.
Cost: $399.99 ($249.99 if purchased during the Beta period).
Support: First month of support is included, extended support contracts
are
available on the web site.
Updates: $299.99 per year for up to 4 updates per year ($199.99 during
the
Beta period)


From jafo-pythonlist at tummy.com  Thu Jan 25 04:07:33 2001
From: jafo-pythonlist at tummy.com (Sean Reifschneider)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 02:07:33 -0700
Subject: Python and postgreSQL ??
In-Reply-To: <kur91s5ffu.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>; from erno-news@erno.iki.fi on Thu, Jan 25, 2001 at 08:11:33AM +0200
References: <slrn96uhcq.1u1.isard@localhost.localdomain> <kuy9w05sds.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi> <mailman.980401708.18002.python-list@python.org> <kur91s5ffu.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>
Message-ID: <20010125020733.A17016@tummy.com>

On Thu, Jan 25, 2001 at 08:11:33AM +0200, Erno Kuusela wrote:
>seems the latest version of pygresql doesn't have the pgtools
>thing. but, it doesn't use the db-api interface either.

Hmm.  I should look at that.  I mostly just snag the one that's in the
postgresql SRPM...

>the readme doesn't make it sound very hard...

Yeah, but it also doesn't mention that you have to run it in a transaction
either.  It sounds like it's documented somwhere, but I just greped through
the user guide and don't see a mention of "locreate", "getlo" or "loimport"
in it.

I'm not really that interested in it.  Evelyn and I wrote this "Mail2DB"
thing over dinner one night (design, development, and released at a
restraunt -- love wireless IP :-).

One of the folks who was interested in it wanted the entire message stored
in the database in an LO.  I told him "good luck".  :-)  My version
just stores header information in the DB and the messages themselves
are stored in the filesystem.  Should make them easy to compress, eh?

Sean
-- 
 This mountain is PURE SNOW!  Do you know what the street value of this
 mountain is!?!                -- Better Off Dead
Sean Reifschneider, Inimitably Superfluous <jafo at tummy.com>
tummy.com - Linux Consulting since 1995. Qmail, KRUD, Firewalls, Python



From rwklee at home.com  Thu Jan 25 20:16:01 2001
From: rwklee at home.com (Rick Lee)
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 01:16:01 GMT
Subject: ANN: timeoutsocket.py --> v1.12 works with Python 2.0
References: <980352751.234548674@news.flashcom.net> <mailman.980354010.1825.python-list@python.org> <3A6F9224.FBCE2EF1@home.com> <uae8fqo11.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com>
Message-ID: <3A70CFD2.5EC49B1F@home.com>

Thanks!  Sounds like select() is the way to go.  But, why not 1000 separate
threads, just for argument's sake?

- Rick

David Bolen wrote:

> Rick Lee <rwklee at home.com> writes:
>
> > I don't know how expensive threads are.  If I have to implement a
> > server, it seems to me that I have to do recv() on every connection I
> > accept on a separate thread.  Is that the way to go?  Is there a more
> > efficient way?
>
> Typically an application like this uses select() to wait for any of
> its connections to have something to process, and then it processes
> those that it needs to.  Some later Unix platforms also have a poll()
> call that can be more efficient.
>
> So you end up with a main loop (which may be a distinct thread if you
> have a GUI front-end) blocking in select() except when something needs
> to be done.
>
> >                 Asyncore?  (In my application, all TCP connections are
> > very long lived, there can be up to 1000 simultaneous connections.)
>
> The asyncore module effectively packages up the loop around the select
> (or poll if available), and dispatches I/O to the appropriate socket
> connections as necessary.  It'll also queue up output and send it out
> as it can from any of your socket writes.
>
> It's a little different coding model when you write your top level
> code using the library (since effectively you are writing small hooks
> to either keep the library fed with more data to send, or to drain
> data as it is received), but it can be very effective.
>
> As to whether you can support 1000 simultaneous connections
> (particularly dependent on how much data is flowing simultaneously)
> will depend on a lot of things (including your OS/kernel, memory,
> network stack and so on), but I do think it's technically feasible.
>
> You may also want to look at the open/free medusa framework
> (http://www.nightmare.com/medusa) which is layered on top of asyncore
> to provide services such as an HTTP server.  If not useful directly, at
> least it will provide some examples of coding to asyncore.
>
> --
> -- David
> --
> /-----------------------------------------------------------------------\
>  \               David Bolen            \   E-mail: db3l at fitlinxx.com  /
>   |             FitLinxx, Inc.            \  Phone: (203) 708-5192    |
>  /  860 Canal Street, Stamford, CT  06902   \  Fax: (203) 316-5150     \
> \-----------------------------------------------------------------------/



From chris at voodooland.net  Sun Jan 21 18:52:11 2001
From: chris at voodooland.net (Chris Watson)
Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 17:52:11 -0600 (CST)
Subject: patch for python configure for freeBSD and Zope
In-Reply-To: <01012212294102.00887@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.21.0101211751020.77700-100000@open-systems.net>

> Sorry, to be more explicit :
> I built python 1.5.2 and Zope 2.2.2 from source, although the most recent
> stable release of Zope also gave the same error.
> 
> I did not use the ports distribution of python or zope, so I don't know if
> the same default configure script is used by them too.
> 
> Is that what you wanted to know?


	Yes. That answers what I wanted to know. Is there a specific
reason you didnt want to use the ports? Since the ports work just fine im
assuming there is. I would like to know if its because the ports are
lacking a feature you need so they can be fixed? If not why not just
use the ports?

--
=============================================================================
-Chris Watson         (316) 326-3862 | FreeBSD Consultant, FreeBSD Geek 
Work:              scanner at jurai.net | Open Systems Inc., Wellington, Kansas
Home:  scanner at deceptively.shady.org | http://open-systems.net
=============================================================================
WINDOWS: "Where do you want to go today?"
LINUX: "Where do you want to go tomorrow?"
BSD: "Are you guys coming or what?"
=============================================================================
GNU = Gnu's Non-portable & Unstable
irc.openprojects.net #FreeBSD -Join the revolution!
ICQ: 20016186




From ssthapa at harper.uchicago.edu  Sun Jan 21 14:19:10 2001
From: ssthapa at harper.uchicago.edu (ssthapa at harper.uchicago.edu)
Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 19:19:10 GMT
Subject: Python for 8086???
References: <007301c08236$b2771f50$f05aa8c0@lslp7o.int.lsl.co.uk> <mailman.980059524.26146.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrn96m4p8.7ho.ssthapa@ntcs-ip45.uchicago.edu>

Sean Reifschneider <jafo at tummy.com> wrote:
>There's the Python port to the Palm Pilot.  That might be a good place
>to start...  Don't know how small your box is, but the Pilot is a
>68000 kind of CPU with 8MB RAM.  I was shown a copy of it at a recent
>LUG meeting, and it doesn't look too bad, but is still missing some
>things (floats? forms).

    If he's using a garden variety 8086 then his system will probably have
640K of memory and possibly a few megs of expanded memory (the kind you can
only access a page at a time).  I'm fairly sure that the python interpeter 
takes 1+ MB of memory to start with so it some radical surgery would probably
be needed. 

-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
	   		              |
Suchandra Thapa                       | "There are only two kinds of math . 
s-thapa-11 at NOSPAMalumni.uchicago.edu  | books. Those you cannot read beyond 
			              | the first sentence, and those you 
			              | can not read beyond the first page."
			              |                     -C.N. Yang
----------------------------------------------------------------------------


From senux at NOSPAM.senux.com  Wed Jan  3 12:20:43 2001
From: senux at NOSPAM.senux.com (Brian Lee)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 02:20:43 +0900 (KST)
Subject: Newbie: apache+php+python+mysql installation.
Message-ID: <92vn1b$flb$1@news1-2.kornet.net>

I've ever installed apache+php+mysql and I think is' very common
combination on web server. Now I want to add python on CGI programming.
Colud you help me to find out some docs about installation of
apache+php+python+mysql? Thanks for your posting. 

-- 
OoOoOoooO | ??? (Brian Lee)
oooOooOoo | senux at senux.com
  2:01am  up  2:48,  4 users,  load average: 0.11, 0.19, 0.28


From grey at despair.rpglink.com  Fri Jan  5 04:01:35 2001
From: grey at despair.rpglink.com (Steve Lamb)
Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 09:01:35 -0000
Subject: Migrating to perl?
References: <3Fa56.4580$of7.216286@news1.atl> <933fa1$j2i$1@newshost.accu.uu.nl> <ggd56.4652$of7.222552@news1.atl>
Message-ID: <slrn95b3bf.g1f.grey@teleute.rpglink.com>

On Fri, 5 Jan 2001 00:47:32 -0500, Joel Ricker <joejava at dragonat.net> wrote:
>I've mentioned before that I'm real new to OO.  How should I approach it in
>Python?  Has anyone learned OO just from Python?  

    I have.  I hopped over from Perl to Python and while I still am employed
for my Perl expertise I try to use Python for personal use whenever possible.  
It took me about 2 weeks to port over one of my common learning projects using
my Perl code as a reference.  Was actually quite a joy.  I ended up using some
basic OO quite nicely.  In my experience Python makes it quite intuative.

>I heard something about curley braces as well.  No {} for blocks?  Thats
>going to take some getting used to :)

    No braces for blocks and intention matters.  For example...

if something:
  print "foo"
  print "bar"

...and...

if something:
  print "foo"
print "bar"

    ...do two different things.  The former will print foo and bar on two
separate lines only if something is true.  The latter will pring foo only if
something is true but will always print bar.

    The nice thing is that the interpretor is interactive so you can easily
play with the code.  Taking the above and actually defining something yields
the results.


{grey at teleute:/etc} python
Python 1.5.2 (#0, Apr  3 2000, 14:46:48)  [GCC 2.95.2 20000313 (Debian
GNU/Linux)] on linux2
Copyright 1991-1995 Stichting Mathematisch Centrum, Amsterdam
>>> something = 0
>>> if something:
...   print "foo"
...   print "bar"
... 
>>> if something:
...   print "foo"
... 
>>> print "bar"
bar
>>> 

    While Perl lets you write the script as you go Python implements command
history and line editing which Perl doesn't.  This lets you play with the code
in something like a shell setting and really lessens the learning curve
immensely.  When I was porting the script over I had one window open to the
Perl code for reference on logic, one open to vim to edit the script, one open
to Python so I could test out ideas to see if how I was reading my book was
really what the language did.  :)

-- 
         Steve C. Lamb         | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your
         ICQ: 5107343          | main connection to the switchboard of souls.
-------------------------------+---------------------------------------------


From sheila at thinkspot.net  Mon Jan 15 00:33:42 2001
From: sheila at thinkspot.net (Sheila King)
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 05:33:42 GMT
Subject: Help with Python install
References: <rkp46t8atkoabsmu7v159sm32c0mslp40p@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <ro256tkkmuf2j6lq6279ofr871269j7fnj@4ax.com>

On Mon, 15 Jan 2001 03:12:04 GMT, Sheila King <sheila at thinkspot.net> wrote in
comp.lang.python in article <rkp46t8atkoabsmu7v159sm32c0mslp40p at 4ax.com>:

:My web host offers Python 1.5.1. 
...<snipped>...
:But I really wanted to use a more recent version. I was given permission to
:install 2.0 in my own directory space. I have done so, and it appears to be
:working.
...<snipped>...
:I can't get some mail scripts that I had running before under 1.5.1 to run
:under 2.0.

I've been given a clue from the Sysadmin:
I've installed Python in the wrong directory. The mail program doesn't have
permission to access my $HOME directory, and I've installed Python2.0 in a
subdirectory of HOME. So, I need to uninstall it, and then reinstall it into a
directory that the mail program has access to.

What is the recommended uninstall procedure? I'm tempted to simply delete the
entire Python-2.0 folder, but don't want to get myself in trouble...



--
Sheila King
http://www.thinkspot.net/sheila/
http://www.k12groups.org/


From fray_fernando at my-deja.com  Mon Jan 22 14:53:42 2001
From: fray_fernando at my-deja.com (fray_fernando at my-deja.com)
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 19:53:42 GMT
Subject: observer design pattern
Message-ID: <94i340$4er$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

Where can I find some python sample code implementing the observer
pattern? O:-)
TIA


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Fri Jan  5 02:38:46 2001
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com (sb)
Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 00:38:46 -0700
Subject: Newbie Question - Hex to floating point conversion
Message-ID: <peua5tc7a6195psc05umrl16r0jt05gg85@4ax.com>

Hello

Is there an easy way to convert 4 byte floating point numbers in IEEE
format to they're decimal equivalents? 

EX.: BF 00 00 00 =  -0.5


-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----


From chris at voodooland.net  Fri Jan 12 02:35:58 2001
From: chris at voodooland.net (Chris Watson)
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 01:35:58 -0600 (CST)
Subject: New Gopher Client
In-Reply-To: <20010112081455.A4585@yetix.sz-sb.de>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.21.0101120130510.47790-100000@open-systems.net>

> Don't take it personel but why do people spend their time for such out-dated
> protocols and technologies ?

	You mean such outdated protocols like SMTP, X.500, DNS, and FTP.
Which pre-dated gopher :-) Your right what a silly idea. 
Some of us still use gopher, archie, WAIS, veronic, etc..

--
=============================================================================
-Chris Watson         (316) 326-3862 | FreeBSD Consultant, FreeBSD Geek 
Work:              scanner at jurai.net | Open Systems Inc., Wellington, Kansas
Home:  scanner at deceptively.shady.org | http://open-systems.net
=============================================================================
WINDOWS: "Where do you want to go today?"
LINUX: "Where do you want to go tomorrow?"
BSD: "Are you guys coming or what?"
=============================================================================
irc.openprojects.net #FreeBSD -Join the revolution!
ICQ: 20016186




From Dan.Rolander at marriott.com  Mon Jan 22 12:15:46 2001
From: Dan.Rolander at marriott.com (Rolander, Dan)
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 12:15:46 -0500
Subject: [wxPython] Focus Problem
Message-ID: <6176E3D8E36FD111B58900805FA7E0F80CCF6303@mcnc-mdm1-ex01>

Paul,

THANK YOU! THANK YOU! THANK YOU!

Your simple example gave me what I needed to figure this out (although I
don't understand it). I have attached a modified version of your code that
exhibits the problem I was having. I was calling .Destroy() on each dialog
after I was done with it. This works fine until you get to the custom dialog
where it will open without focus.

I found that if I remove the call to .Destroy for the dialog just previous
to wxDialog (the wxSingleChoiceDialog) then the custom wxDialog DOES RECIEVE
FOCUS!!!

Now, the question is...WHY does this happen? Is it by design or is it a bug?
I don't know, but I'm glad I figured it out.

Thanks again for taking the time to help me!

Dan

Here is an example of the 'Focus Problem':

from wxPython import wx
from sys import exit


class MyDialog(wx.wxDialog):

    def __init__(self, parent):
        wx.wxDialog.__init__(self, parent, -1, 'wxDialog')
        clb = wx.wxCheckListBox(
            self, -1, choices=['check', 'list', 'box'])
        ok = wx.wxButton(self, wx.wxID_OK, 'Ok')
        sizer = wx.wxBoxSizer(wx.wxVERTICAL)
        sizer.Add(clb, 1, wx.wxEXPAND|wx.wxALL, 5)
        sizer.Add(ok, 0, wx.wxALIGN_RIGHT|wx.wxALL^wx.wxTOP, 5)
        self.SetSizer(sizer)
        sizer.Fit(self)
        self.Layout()

if __name__ == '__main__':
    
    app = wx.wxPySimpleApp()
    frame = wx.wxFrame(None, -1, 'Focus test')
    frame.Show(1)

    fd = wx.wxFileDialog(frame)
    if fd.ShowModal() == wx.wxID_OK:
        fd.Destroy()
    else:
        exit(1)

    md = wx.wxMessageDialog(frame, 'Continue?')
    if md.ShowModal() == wx.wxID_OK:
        md.Destroy()
    else:
        exit(1)

    scd = wx.wxSingleChoiceDialog(frame, 'msg', 'cap', ['single', 'choice'])
    if scd.ShowModal() == wx.wxID_OK:
        scd.Destroy() # <-- Calling destroy here will prevent myd from
getting focus!!!
    else:
        exit(1)

    myd = MyDialog(frame)
    if myd.ShowModal() == wx.wxID_OK:
        myd.Destroy()
    else:
        exit(1)

    # ... wxProgressDialog, wxMessageDialog

-----Original Message-----
From: Paul.Kunysch at DaimlerChrysler.com
[mailto:Paul.Kunysch at DaimlerChrysler.com]
Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 10:50 AM
To: Dan.Rolander at marriott.com
Subject: RE: [wxPython] Focus Problem


Well, the following code works on my wxPython2.2.2/Python1.5.2/NT4sp6
system.


==========

from wxPython import wx
from sys import exit


class MyDialog(wx.wxDialog):

    def __init__(self, parent):
        wx.wxDialog.__init__(self, parent, -1, 'wxDialog')
        clb = wx.wxCheckListBox(
            self, -1, choices=['check', 'list', 'box'])
        ok = wx.wxButton(self, wx.wxID_OK, 'Ok')
        sizer = wx.wxBoxSizer(wx.wxVERTICAL)
        sizer.Add(clb, 1, wx.wxEXPAND|wx.wxALL, 5)
        sizer.Add(ok, 0, wx.wxALIGN_RIGHT|wx.wxALL^wx.wxTOP, 5)
        self.SetSizer(sizer)
        sizer.Fit(self)
        self.Layout()

if __name__ == '__main__':
    
    app = wx.wxPySimpleApp()
    frame = wx.wxFrame(None, -1, 'Focus test')
    frame.Show(1)

    fd = wx.wxFileDialog(frame)
    if fd.ShowModal() != wx.wxID_OK:
        exit(1)

    md = wx.wxMessageDialog(frame, 'Continue?')
    if md.ShowModal() != wx.wxID_OK:
        exit(1)

    scd = wx.wxSingleChoiceDialog(frame, 'msg', 'cap', ['single', 'choice'])
    if scd.ShowModal() != wx.wxID_OK:
        exit(1)

    myd = MyDialog(frame)
    if myd.ShowModal() != wx.wxID_OK:
        exit(1)

    # ... wxProgressDialog, wxMessageDialog





From brian_zhouNOSPAM at agilent.com  Sat Jan  6 23:12:13 2001
From: brian_zhouNOSPAM at agilent.com (Brian Zhou)
Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2001 20:12:13 -0800
Subject: Should I learn Python or Java?
References: <HEO56.5504$y9.2881293@typhoon.we.rr.com>
Message-ID: <978840685.459818@emperor.labs.agilent.com>

See below.

"Charlotte Williams" <charlottwilliams at mediaone.net> wrote in message
news:HEO56.5504$y9.2881293 at typhoon.we.rr.com...
> Hello,
>
>     I am a Visual Basic programmer who wants to increase his knowledge of
> programming languages.  Now that the curses, boos, and barrage of rotten
> fruit are out of the way, I would like to ask this group a few questions
> :-) ...
>
> I notice that there is a lot of demand for Java programmers.  The only
> experience I have with an OO language is Smalltalk.   My questions are:

Wow! What else do you need to understand OOP/OOD if you already got
Smalltalk? Smalltalk is still the best in terms of learning OO concept.
Python is a lot like smalltalk, dynamic-typed but not as pure.

>
> 1.  Which language would be best to learn, Java or Python.  From a VB
> standpoint, which has the least learning curve?

Python if you start from VB and Smalltalk.

> 2.  Is going from object-based to object-oriented programming that huge a
> jump?   I want to learn an OO language, however I plan on utilizing it in
my
> career.

Shouldn't be a huge jump. Just need to spend more time in understanding
inheritance and polymorphism.

> 3. Which one is the most "fun" to program in?

Python, having used jpython on top of JVM driving java programs.

> 4.  Is Python multi-platform?  How is it's performance compared to JAVA in
> an internet situation?  It's reliability?

Multi-platform? yes. The performance depends a lot on implementation of the
framework. But Java's servlet is quite mature.

> 5.  Do you for see Python as becoming a major player like Java servlets
and
> MTS?  Can you see Python demand outstripping Java demand in 2 years time?
>
They are of different levels in the system that's hard to compare this way.
It's like comparing VB or Perl vs. C.

> Many of these questions are in response to a post I saw earlier where
Python
> was being touted as the next evolution of OO programming.  It went
something
> like...
> C --> C++ --> Java --> Python.
>
Python is basically an in-pure smalltalk with obj.method() invoking
convention, but also with practical usage in mind. So the idea is not that
new. Language design, after all, is a compromise. Smalltalk is like "I AM
the ideal world", while python is like "I will be used as a tool".

> I'm really interested in hearing from VB programmers that decided to jump
> into one or both of the languages,  has pretty good knowledge (enough to
get
> a Java or Python job) and the headaches and experiences they had learning
> about them.  Do you need a formal CS education to grasp them?  I tried
> finding information on these two, but the experiences I always found were
C
> or C++ programmers that tried to tackle them.  Some sites actually
belittled
> me as a VB programmer.  Since I have heard such good things about this
> groups hospitality, I thought I would ask here first.  Thanks.
>

Learning both may not be as difficult as it sounds. If you're aiming job
opportunities, java is now what COBOL is 30 years ago, so at least be
prepared to read java code. If your goal is learning OO, python probably is
a good choice. Language is like musical instrument, it's means to an end --
music. I highly recommend learning design patterns also.

>
> David Williams
>

Regards,

/Brian




From rturpin at my-deja.com  Fri Jan  5 23:09:15 2001
From: rturpin at my-deja.com (rturpin at my-deja.com)
Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2001 04:09:15 GMT
Subject: How robust is Python ?
References: <9358nn$3c5$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, <9354f9$vbi$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, <LOBBJMHOIFOLFIPFANHJAEJFCHAA.zope@TheWebsons.com> <mailman.978716227.31692.python-list@python.org> <mailman.978721929.3640.python-list@python.org> <mailman.978748447.21713.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9365p9$s2k$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

In article <mailman.978748447.21713.python-list at python.org>,
  Moshe Zadka <moshez at zadka.site.co.il> wrote:
> .. C/C++ core dumps at the drop of a pointer. ..

In theory, that's an application flaw, rather than a
bug in the compiler or libraries. In practice, good
software engineering produces C/C++ programs that
very rarely dereference bad pointers. It's harder
and more work than development with Python.

Keep in mind that Python *is* a C program. When I
ask how robust is Python, I am asking how robust is
a particular C program, pointers and all.

Russell


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From p_fredrickson at hotmail.com  Sat Jan 13 02:19:02 2001
From: p_fredrickson at hotmail.com (Paul Fredrickson)
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 00:19:02 -0700
Subject: Interesting PIL display problem
Message-ID: <fjT76.4472$nO.761716@news.uswest.net>

I'm running python 2.0, tcl/tk 8.3 on windows me, with PIL 1.1, but I
haven't been able to get this simple code snippet to work:

import Tkinter,Image,ImageTk
root=Tkinter.Tk()
im=Image.open("test.gif")
photo=ImageTk.PhotoImage(im)
...
in the hopes that I can then do something like
c=Canvas(root)
c.create_image(10,10,image=photo)

but I don't get a chance.  The exact error message says it can't find the
_imagingtk module, even
though the distribution I got didn't include one. (Even one it was
supposedly tested with python 2.0).
Anyway, I went and downloaded the PIL source, and built the _imageingtk
module, but I'm not sure I built it right, because then it finds it and
coughs with a DLL load error.  I'm not sure how to test if that's because it
can't find init_imagingtk(...), or because of some error later on.  I've
also tried earlier versions of python (1.5.2) with earlier versions of PIL
(1.0), but I can't shake the feeling that I'm doing something fundamentally
wrong.  Does it work for anyone else?

I'd like to test it on linux, but my linux partitions been hosed for a
couple weeks, and I can't find my install cd's.

Suggestions?  Pointers?  More appropriate forums?
Any help would be appreciated.

Paul Fredrickson
pbf2 at email.byu.edu, p_fredrickson at hotmail.com,





From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Thu Jan 18 04:05:14 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 10:05:14 +0100
Subject: Strange variable scope... is this right?
References: <gcqp39.jkk.ln@127.0.0.1> <9456dr$a7h$1@panix2.panix.com> <945ept$cc0lf$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <946coe330tl@news2.newsguy.com>

"Emile van Sebille" <emile at fenx.com> wrote in message
news:945ept$cc0lf$1 at ID-11957.news.dfncis.de...
> Ok.
>
> Now, for the benefit of those of us (or is it just me ;-)
> who thought we were getting the hang of code blocks,
> execution frames and namespaces, it would appear that a for
> loop pushes references to pop before entering the loop, ala:
>
> r = range(5)
> for i in r:
>     if i == 1: del r
>     print i,            #--> 0 1 2 3 4

Somewhat strange way to put it, but, yes: a reference to
r is in existence during the for's execution.  Look at
the for loop just as if it were...:

for i in r:
    <body>

translates to:

__sequence = r
__index = 0
while 1:
    try: i=__sequence[__index]
    except IndexError: break
    __index += 1
    <body>

It's not QUITE like this because of a few nits -- the
reference is not named and you can't get at it inside the
body, and also, there is a test-this-is-a-sequence-and-
not-a-mapping implied in the for statement; but I think
this is a usable model.

So, if <body> does a 'del r', or otherwise affects the
REFERENCE r (as opposed to: the object that r refers to!),
this is no matter.  OK so far?


> However, when del-ing a slice, the presumed pushed
> references are changed:

NO!  The *object* it refers to is being mutated.


> r = range(5)
> for i in r:
>     if i == 1: del r[2:4]
>     print i,            #--> 0 1 4
>
> Therefore, it must be simply a reference to the source
> object (r) that gets pushed.

Yep.  Again, try this 'body' in my above-suggested 'model'
and you'll get the same behavior.


> Assuming that's correct then, is this piece of code with
> annotations the way that it's working?
>
> f = ["row", "cow", "arrow"]
> # create three element list object and bind to 'f'
> for f in f:
>     # save reference to 'f' to iterate over,
>     # re-binding 'f' to each in turn
>     for f in range (len (f)):
>         # save reference to newly created range object of
> len (f)
>         # re-binding 'f' to each in turn
>
> It feels like this is less an issue with namespaces and more
> an issue of how the for loop works.
>
> Am-I-getting-closer-ly y'rs,

Very close, it seems to me.  You do appear to 'get' the
crucial distinction between references and objects, but
there is still a tiny amount of confusion when you talk
about 'references are changed' when meaning OBJECTS are.


Alex





From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Tue Jan 16 09:28:02 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 15:28:02 +0100
Subject: Web devel with python: Best route? XML to HTML translation!
References: <93cqvi0191h@news1.newsguy.com> <mailman.978910629.6814.python-list@python.org> <mailman.978975978.19612.python-list@python.org> <spenrose-E755EB.22423209012001@news.dnai.com> <93hfp1013sm@news2.newsguy.com> <93vnlv$2qq$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <941lso089n@news1.newsguy.com>

<rturpin at my-deja.com> wrote in message news:93vnlv$2qq$1 at nnrp1.deja.com...
> In article <93hfp1013sm at news2.newsguy.com>,
>   "Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote:
> > All the presentation logic goes into the template, all of
> > the computation into the Python CGI script, and my little
> > yaptu.py (yet another python template utility, of course)
> > bridges the gap ..
>
> That's pretty good. It seems to me there is a better way.
> (1) The server scripts in Python generate XML. This is
> pretty easy to do with xmlpickle. (2) Use an XML to HTML
> filter to generate the HTML. Let the repitition of
> values in XML guide the repitition of the relevant
> sections of HTML. The advantage to this is that the
> same server side scripts can be used to generate XML
> (for downstream processing by another script) or HTML
> (for presentation in browsers).

I can do that -- just by using an XML template rather
than an HTML one, still with yaptu:-).  Yeah, yeah, I
know, that's cheating.  But, who'll write the appropriate
'XML to HTML filters' that output the same contents in
English, Italian, French, etc?  To write (and, more
relevantly, natural-language-translate) the HTML yaptu
templates, there are a zillion free or cheap HTML editors
which authors/translators can use.

XML may well be the best way to present complex data
that are being output, and it has the advantage that
any programming language whatsoever might be used to
produce it -- a big plus for some applications, no
doubt (as for my own needs, I've already indicated I
don't especially need portability along this axis --
Python will do, and it will handle any other language
that may be involved).  But merging the data with
presentation-specific material (which will include
natural-language choice, as well as style and layout
issues) is still a hefty job; for most of the kinds
of applications I've written, I think I'd _still_ like
some very simple templating utility at the server's
back-end, rather than doing (e.g.) localization to
specific natural languages in XSLT (XSLT is great for
'normalizing' stuff that follows different XML schemas
or DTD's to one standardized XML form -- but you still
have to provide for presentation-specific processing
of that 'one XML form', and I don't think XSLT is how
you ideally want to do this last optional step).


Alex





From tdelaney at avaya.com  Mon Jan 15 18:10:11 2001
From: tdelaney at avaya.com (Delaney, Timothy)
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 10:10:11 +1100
Subject: is Python fully object oriented ?
Message-ID: <B43D149A9AB2D411971300B0D03D7E8B0FBDC4@natasha.auslabs.avaya.com>

Oh - avoiding this technique does not magically make the danger go away.
However, *using* this technique is an almost guaranteed sure-fire way to
stuff things up in a multi-threaded app.

The problem is, multiple threads can be executing the same bit of code at
the same time. This is a problem with *any* system which accesses shared
data - whether it be multi-threaded, multiple apps accessing the same file,
etc.

A classic example is:

class c:

	a = 1

	def f (self):
		c.a = 2
		c.a = c.a + 1
		return c.a

Now, if you have two threads running that both called f() on instances of c
(different or the same instances) they have multiple ways of executing.

Lets call these two threads A and B :)

A: c.a = 2
A: c.a = c.a + 1
A: return c.a (returns 3)
B: c.a = 2
B: c.a = c.a + 1
B: return c.a (returns 3)

In a non-threaded system, this is guaranteed.

Now, let's look at another execution order ...

A: c.a = 2
A: c.a = c.a + 1
B: c.a = 2
A: return c.a (returns 2)
B: c.a = c.a + 1
B: return c.a (returns 3)

This is a major problem.

Your situation is similar. You are getting a value, doing things with it,
then setting the original value to it. Meanwhile, a second thread has
grabbed *the original value*, does something else with it (i.e. not
necessarily in the same method, so does something different), then after
your first thread assigns it back, the *second* thread assigns it back. Your
first thread is now likely to become very confused very quickly.

The only safe way to do *exactly* what you are proposing is to treat it as a
"critical section" - i.e. use a mutex or some other mechanism to ensure that
only one thread is modifying that data at any time. This then gets rid of
all your performance gains of using a local variable as the critical section
becomes a bottleneck.

There are many techniques for making things "thread-safe" - if you are
interested I would suggest doing a bit of research. There's not way I can
explain it all here.

Tim Delaney
Avaya Australia
+61 2 9352 9079

> -----Original Message-----
> From: m.faassen at vet.uu.nl [mailto:m.faassen at vet.uu.nl]
> Sent: Monday, 15 January 2001 11:20 PM
> To: python-list at python.org
> Subject: Re: is Python fully object oriented ?
> 
> 
> Delaney, Timothy <tdelaney at avaya.com> wrote:
> [snip me describing how object attributes can be copied into local
>  variables]
> > Ooh - dangerous in a multithreaded app ... ;)
> 
> I have little experience programming multithreaded apps, but find it
> hard to believe that avoiding this techniques makes all the danger go
> away without the need for special attention anyway. Could you 
> elaborate?
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Martijn
> -- 
> History of the 20th Century: WW1, WW2, WW3?
> No, WWW -- Could we be going in the right direction?
> -- 
> http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 



From doubleace3 at my-deja.com  Fri Jan  5 17:09:52 2001
From: doubleace3 at my-deja.com (doubleace3 at my-deja.com)
Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 22:09:52 GMT
Subject: uploading files
Message-ID: <935gna$as0$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

Hi,
   I'm writing a script in php that needs to upload files from the
user's machine to a server, and it's used in combination with a form in
HTML that lies on the server side. I wrote a piece of code that I
thought would work, but it turned out that when i specify c:\test.doc,
it is the file on the server side that is uploaded and not the test.doc
on the client side. Must be because the script is run on the server
side.

Does anyone know how I would specify that it is the client's c:\test.doc
and not the server file that should be uploaded?


 Thanks


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http://www.deja.com/


From poseidon_cma at my-deja.com  Tue Jan 30 09:40:59 2001
From: poseidon_cma at my-deja.com (James Lockley)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 14:40:59 GMT
Subject: Calling an exe within Python
References: <20010129215504.07374.00004165@ng-fi1.aol.com>
Message-ID: <956jpq$2ne$1@nnrp1.deja.com>



 Wayne> (2) When I do such a call, does execution within the Python
>script wait for the
> exe to finish or does it spawn a new threat for the exe and move on?

 try this:

  cmd=os.popen(call)
  list=cmd.readlines()
  result=cmd.close()

list contains the output of the call; result means waits for end
cheers
james


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From moshez at zadka.site.co.il  Sat Jan 13 20:35:02 2001
From: moshez at zadka.site.co.il (Moshe Zadka)
Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 03:35:02 +0200 (IST)
Subject: Python Design Patterns (was Re: Should I learn Python or Java?)
In-Reply-To: <oe116t8dut0ol2on38v0n8qbro66qgi2c7@4ax.com>
References: <oe116t8dut0ol2on38v0n8qbro66qgi2c7@4ax.com>, <3cus5tk2n0qnhgfid5mnmauulc4gsjfnpb@4ax.com>, <HEO56.5504$y9.2881293@typhoon.we.rr.com> <978840685.459818@emperor.labs.agilent.com> <3A5DF377.791E3DE0@comm.mot.com> <mailman.979261515.31284.python-list@python.org> <mailman.979371618.7966.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <20010114013502.479DAA828@darjeeling.zadka.site.co.il>

On Sat, 13 Jan 2001 08:45:47 -0800, Daniel Klein <danielk at aracnet.com> wrote:

> Alex's message did not make it to my news server. Could you send it directly to

Try the following the Deja link:

http://deja.com/=gh/article/%3C930af60qcn at news1.newsguy.com%3E

And follow the thread back and forth. That's what Deja is for.
-- 
Moshe Zadka <sig at zadka.site.co.il>
This is a signature anti-virus. 
Please stop the spread of signature viruses!



From loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de  Sat Jan 20 17:51:36 2001
From: loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de (Martin von Loewis)
Date: 20 Jan 2001 23:51:36 +0100
Subject: adding the XML to 2.0 to be a mistake?
References: <mailman.979611383.15529.python-list@python.org> <3d8zocuqrd.fsf@kronos.cnri.reston.va.us> <3a646756.124812921@news1.on.sympatico.ca> <mailman.979890203.7090.python-list@python.org> <3a6910f0.129337937@news1.on.sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <p6qvgr9q1l3.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>

rjroy at takingcontrol.com (Robert Roy) writes:

> >> Undeclared entities are a problem in SAX but can be handled cleanly
> >> using the unknown_entityref mecanism in xmllib.
> >
> >According to the XML specification, *all* entities must be declared. An
> >XML parser is required to check that.
> >
> 
> I may be misinterpreting the spec but if I declare standalone="no"
> with a non-validating parser, should it not ignore entities that it
> can't find?

Maybe its a misunderstanding. If you were talking about entities
declared in an external subset (i.e. in a DTD), then they are not
undeclared.

So if the document has no DOCTYPE declaration and then uses truly
undeclared entity references, the document is ill-formed, and even a
non-validating parser must report that. 

The section of the spec you cite only allows a parser to ignore
external entities if they can be assumed to have a definition in the
external DTD subset.

> If I interpret the spec properly then expat's behavior (at least as
> included with 2.0)  is questionable. It should not choke on an
> undeclared entity ref since it must assume that it is declared
> elsewhere.

And indeed, it doesn't. For me, it parses

<!DOCTYPE bla SYSTEM "hallo.dtd">
<bla>&test;</bla>

just fine, whereas it "chokes" on

<bla>&test;</bla>

just as it should.

> I want it all correct AND flexible <g/>. Now if we can just hook in
> here and override there...

It seems then that xml.parsers.expat is just for you - atleast if you
want to process XML. If you want to process something like XML, then
you should stick with xmllib.

Regards,
Martin


From aahz at panix.com  Mon Jan 29 14:13:36 2001
From: aahz at panix.com (Aahz Maruch)
Date: 29 Jan 2001 11:13:36 -0800
Subject: Python vs Ruby
References: <94mdkd$222e$1@news.adamastor.ac.za> <p6qwvbjtr97.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de> <mailman.980510622.2558.python-list@python.org> <slrn97adcd.scu.r2d2@mao.acc.umu.se>
Message-ID: <954fd0$rri$1@panix3.panix.com>

In article <slrn97adcd.scu.r2d2 at mao.acc.umu.se>,
Niklas Frykholm <r2d2 at mao.acc.umu.se> wrote:
>
>AND I WISH THEY WOULD BOTH STOP DOING
>
>    - Automatic promotion of integers to floats...

Where does Python automatically change ints to floats (except in the
return value of an expression that *already* contains a float)?
-- 
                      --- Aahz (Copyright 2001 by aahz at pobox.com)

Androgynous poly kinky vanilla queer het    <*>     http://www.rahul.net/aahz/
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6

"I heard Commentary and Dissent had merged and formed Dysentary."


From jafo-pythonlist at tummy.com  Fri Jan 26 14:00:09 2001
From: jafo-pythonlist at tummy.com (Sean Reifschneider)
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 12:00:09 -0700
Subject: ANNOUNCE: Python 2.1a1 SRPM
Message-ID: <20010126120009.D18170@tummy.com>

Stop the presses!  Heh, I've always wanted to say that...  I decided
to pull the February KRUD (our Redhat 7.0-based distribution,
http://www.tummy.com/krud/) back from test and add Python2.1a1 to it
(in addition to 2.0 and 1.5.2).  The binary is called "python2.1" to
allow for easily testing your programs with 2.1 while allowing you to
fall back in case of problems.

The SRPM is available at:

   ftp.tummy.com:/pub/tummy/RPMS/SRPMS

You will also need the "expat-1.1-3tummy.src.rpm" SRPM (available in the same
location) to build the binary above (it prevents a conflict with the
w2c-libwww-devel RPM).

By default, it builds a binary named "python2.1" -- this can be changed by
commenting out the "2.1" line at the very top of the spec file.  To build
a binary RPM from the SRPM above, do (for example):

   rpm --rebuild expat-1.1-3tummy.src.rpm
   rpm -i /usr/src/redhat/RPMS/i386/expat-1.1-3tummy.i386.rpm
   rpm --rebuild python-2.1a1-1tummy.src.rpm
   rpm -i /usr/src/redhat/RPMS/i386/python-2.1a1-tummy.i386.rpm
   rpm -i /usr/src/redhat/RPMS/i386/python-tkinter-2.1a1-tummy.i386.rpm
   rpm -i /usr/src/redhat/RPMS/i386/python-devel-2.1a1-tummy.i386.rpm

These commands will build binary RPMs tailored exactly to your system
(hopefully avoiding problems with 6.2 and 7.0 differences).

Note that these SRPMs are in RPM v4 format.  If you are running RedHat 6.2
or older without the errata applied (shame on you), you'll need to upgrade
to install version 3.0.5 of RPM, available at:

   ftp.valinux.com:/pub/mirrors/redhat/redhat/updates/6.2/i386

as:

   rpm-3.0.5-9.6x.i386.rpm
   rpm-build-3.0.5-9.6x.i386.rpm
   rpm-devel-3.0.5-9.6x.i386.rpm
   rpm-python-3.0.5-9.6x.i386.rpm

If you have any problems with the SRPM, let me know.  Hopefully it will
allow you to more easily test Python 2.1a1 and report problems with it
to the development team.

Enjoy,
Sean
-- 
 Canadian phone sex: What color touque are you wearing?
Sean Reifschneider, Inimitably Superfluous <jafo at tummy.com>
tummy.com - Linux Consulting since 1995. Qmail, KRUD, Firewalls, Python



From andrew_dot_henshaw_at_earthling_dot_net  Sat Jan 13 15:34:50 2001
From: andrew_dot_henshaw_at_earthling_dot_net (Andrew Henshaw)
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 15:34:50 -0500
Subject: Using re - side effects or misunderstanding
Message-ID: <t61f9nsrgdcj0f@corp.supernews.com>

Using re, with the findall command, I find the use of groups sometimes
inconsistent.
Suppose I have the following re

    r = re.compile('abcxyz')

and I execute the following

    r.findall('..abcxyz..')

then I get the string, ['abcxyz'], this is fine. Now I decide that the
pattern I'm looking for should have 1 or more repetitions of abc so I change
my re to

    '(abc)+xyz'
so now I get

    ['abc']

 right-  I need to change my re to '(?:abc)+xyz' to get the desired
behavior.
    'abcxyz'

But I thought that ?: is for matching but not returning.  And so it is,
under certain circumstances, e.g.
if my pattern is

    '(ab)(c)xyz'

I get

    [('ab', 'c')]   (Yikes! a tuple. I'm going to have to change my code a
bit to handle this)

but

    '(ab)(?:c)xyz'

yields,
    ['ab']

and
    '(?:ab)(?:c)xyz'

gives
    ['abcxyz']

so how do I get the result

    ['abxyz']

??

In other words, adding groups for the purpose of adding repetitions seems to
have a greater side-effect than I would desire.  Is there something that I'm
missing in my use of re's?

AH





From fredrik at effbot.org  Sun Jan  7 14:06:15 2001
From: fredrik at effbot.org (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2001 19:06:15 GMT
Subject: boolean xor
References: <93ace8$nmo$1@panix3.panix.com>
Message-ID: <H6366.4370$Qb7.621903@newsb.telia.net>

Aahz Maruch wrote:
> I need a boolean (not bit-wise) xor function.  I've got the following
> function, but my logic skills are rusty enough that I'm wondering if
> this is the "right" way to do it (I've validated that it produces the
> correct outputs, at least):
>
> def xor(a,b):
>     return not ( (a and b) or (not (a or b)) )

here's another way to do it:

def xor(a,b):
    from operator import truth
    return truth(a) ^ truth(b)

Cheers /F




From mfletch at tpresence.com  Thu Jan 11 00:31:11 2001
From: mfletch at tpresence.com (Mike Fletcher)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 00:31:11 -0500
Subject: default arguments newbie question
Message-ID: <CC59868A0A76D311B1F50090277B321C1F37A0@VRTMAIL>

Ah, ignore that guy (honestly, what kind of tripped-out whacko starts making
objects that test equal to None?), he was obviously just trying to upset
Erik Max with silly little exceptions that no serious programmer would ever
consider introducing into a real system.

There should be a sanity check before allowing people to post to c.l.py;
first question:

    Is None an instance, a type, a static instance, or a value?

Answer wrong and the PSU will pay you a little visit with a nice white
jacket... strangely, they forgot about the voice dictation... so easy to
type... they must wonder how I keep typing... maybe they forgot about me
after the record was marked "deleted".
Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: aahz at panix.com
To: python-list at python.org
Sent: 1/10/2001 7:27 PM
Subject: Re: default arguments newbie question
...
You must have missed the post recently where someone showed a class that
compared equal to None.
...



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Jan 19 12:13:31 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 18:13:31 +0100
Subject: py2exe - convert python scripts into exe files (windows)
References: <mailman.979914438.23900.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <949sjv0bcj@news1.newsguy.com>

"Thomas Heller" <thomas.heller at ion-tof.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.979914438.23900.python-list at python.org...
> I've created a distutils extension to convert python scripts
> into standalone windows executable files.
> You end up with an exe-file as well as pythonxx.dll
> plus some .pyd's.
>
> This is more or less a rewrite of Gordon's installer project.
>
> Homepage: http://starship.python.net/crew/theller/py2exe/

Very interesting idea, but I must be doing something wrong.

I downloaded and installed this under my Python 2.0 on NT,
then to try it out wrote a hello.py:

print 'hello world'

and a setup.py:

from distutils.core import setup
import py2exe
setup(name="hello",
   scripts=["hello.py"],
)

and ran python setup.py py2exe.  So far so good -- it
built a dist\hello subdirectory containing:

D:\PySym\salo\dist\hello>dir
 Volume in drive D has no label.
 Volume Serial Number is 0498-B4C2

 Directory of D:\PySym\salo\dist\hello

01/19/01  06:07p        <DIR>          .
01/19/01  06:07p        <DIR>          ..
01/19/01  06:07p                20,326 hello.exe
10/16/00  04:28p               667,709 python20.dll
               4 File(s)        688,035 bytes
                            117,059,584 bytes free

However, when I try to run this EXE, it doesn't work
_quite_ right...:

D:\PySym\salo\dist\hello>.\hello
KeyError: imputil.pyc
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<string>", line 22, in ?
NameError: There is no variable named 'imputil'
hello world

D:\PySym\salo\dist\hello>


Assuming the error message (before the actual output)
is not 'working as designed' -- where am I going
wrong...?  Thanks!


Alex





From sdm7g at virginia.edu  Fri Jan 12 19:32:16 2001
From: sdm7g at virginia.edu (Steven D. Majewski)
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 19:32:16 -0500 (EST)
Subject: newbie...
In-Reply-To: <QZM76.20111$n5.335569@news6.giganews.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.NXT.4.21.0101121929190.237-100000@localhost.virginia.edu>


On Fri, 12 Jan 2001, Matt Frey wrote:

> Where is a good place to learn python?

At home, 
in the office, ... 

I don't, however, recommend learning it in the car --
laptops proped on the steering wheel are even more
dangerous than cell phones. ( And it keeps slipping
onto the horn button! ) 

-- Steve Majewski






From dhirja at vsnl.net  Tue Jan 23 09:02:35 2001
From: dhirja at vsnl.net (Dhirja Gangopadhyay)
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 19:32:35 +0530
Subject: About Content-Transfer-Encoding
Message-ID: <01b001c08545$2ee0dca0$020000c3@node02>

I use the MimeWriter module to build a MIME body that I then send over SMTP
using smtplib.

How can I force content-transfer-encoding to base64 ?
Content-type is text/plain, text/html and text/xml.

Thanks,

Sandipan





From lee.reilly at ntlworld.com  Sun Jan 21 22:34:10 2001
From: lee.reilly at ntlworld.com (Lee)
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 03:34:10 +0000
Subject: creating variable names by adding 2 strings?
Message-ID: <3A6BAA32.370A2C00@ntlworld.com>

Hi there,

This is my first post here. I've got a problem, which I can find any
solutions for using my books or docs on the WWW. I would really
appreciate it if someone could tell me whether the following is
possible...

I'm creating variables in but I am having trouble creating them when
they're *named* using other variables. Here's an example;

while (p!=0):
        p+`p`= string.replace(component[control], ",", "")
        # e.g. I want 'p1 = string.replace.blah...'
        p=p-1
        control=control+1

==> SyntaxError: can't assign to operator :(

I've tried various things but I cannot find a solution. I've got a nasty
feeling that it's not possible...

If someone could confirm this or hopefully, tell me how to do it I would
be_extremely_grateful.

Thanks.

- Best regards,

Lee

--
Lee Reilly
mailto:lee.reilly at ntlworld.com

????`????,,,,????`????,,,,????`????,,,,????`????,,,,

HAVE SKILLS; WILL TRAVEL.

I'm currently looking for an internship in the USA
in the field of web development. Ideally, I'm looking
for a placement for 3 to 18 months. Can you help?

More details, my resume, etc. @
http://homepages.strath.ac.uk/~aeu97172/

</shameless plug>




From cpr at emsoftware.com  Sat Jan 13 12:54:26 2001
From: cpr at emsoftware.com (Chris Ryland)
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 17:54:26 GMT
Subject: No meta-type in Python?
Message-ID: <93q4og$ppg$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

Just out of curiousity, why is there no <type 'type'> in Python?

I.e., I'd expect type(Ellipsis) to be <type 'type'> rather than
<type 'ellipsis'>.

I realize this is opening a can of worms about meta-types (cf.
Smalltalk's (and other languages) theoretical completeness in this
area), but simply looking for enlightenment from the experts.
--
Chris Ryland * Em Software, Inc. * www.emsoftware.com


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From nils.hensel at online.de  Thu Jan 25 16:13:43 2001
From: nils.hensel at online.de (Nils Hensel)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 22:13:43 +0100
Subject: Need Python Enabled Rich Edit Control Similiar to PythonWin.Exe
References: <94q1rt$2ip$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <94q50p$58u$1@news.online.de>

Why not use the original?

http://www.scintilla.org/

Nils


<btheld2 at my-deja.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:94q1rt$2ip$1 at nnrp1.deja.com...
> Hello,
>
> I need a python-enabled rich edit control to use in my application that
> looks similar to the view in PythonWin.exe.  However, I need a control
> instead of a view.  Any ideas?
>
> Ben
>
>
> Sent via Deja.com
> http://www.deja.com/




From rjroy at takingcontrol.com  Fri Jan 19 23:45:16 2001
From: rjroy at takingcontrol.com (Robert Roy)
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 04:45:16 GMT
Subject: adding the XML to 2.0 to be a mistake?
References: <mailman.979611383.15529.python-list@python.org> <3d8zocuqrd.fsf@kronos.cnri.reston.va.us> <3a646756.124812921@news1.on.sympatico.ca> <mailman.979890203.7090.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3a6910f0.129337937@news1.on.sympatico.ca>

On Thu, 18 Jan 2001 20:41:21 -0800, Paul Prescod
<paulp at ActiveState.com> wrote:

>As to your complaints about SAX. The one constant in the world of XML
>and SGML, going back over 10 years is that people always complain that
>their parsers do not give them low enough access to the parse stream.
>This is because parseres are optimized for the *average case*. In the
>average case, you don't want to do your own entity lookups.
>
>If what you want is an XML tokenizer, then perhaps xmllib is just right.
>But even then it isn't perfect because it will return your attributes in
>an arbitrary order, not the order they were specified in the document. I
>need an XML tokenizer for a project I am working on and I am going to
>have to wrap Expat's XMLTok API.
>

I guess what I have been doing wants a hybrid of sorts. I care about
the entities but I don't really care about the attribute order.

>I'm disputing the usefulness of XML tokenizers -- I'm disputing their
>relative utility compared to XML parsers.
>
>>  For several tasks (eg: translation to another DTD/Schema) it is
>> desireable not to resolve any character entities including the
>> standard XML entity defs. ...
>
>Wat you want isn't an XML parser. XML parsers are required by the
>specification to resolve character entities.
>
>> Undeclared entities are a problem in SAX but can be handled cleanly
>> using the unknown_entityref mecanism in xmllib.
>
>According to the XML specification, *all* entities must be declared. An
>XML parser is required to check that.
>

I may be misinterpreting the spec but if I declare standalone="no"
with a non-validating parser, should it not ignore entities that it
can't find?

section 4.1
"Similarly, the declaration of a general entity must precede any
reference to it which appears in a default value in an attribute-list
declaration. Note that if entities are declared in the external subset
or in external parameter entities, a non-validating processor is not
obligated to read and process their declarations; for such documents,
the rule that an entity must be declared is a well-formedness
constraint only if standalone='yes'. "

If I interpret the spec properly then expat's behavior (at least as
included with 2.0)  is questionable. It should not choke on an
undeclared entity ref since it must assume that it is declared
elsewhere.


>Here's the example XML document:
>
><!DOCTYPE Element [
><!ELEMENT Element ANY>
><!ENTITY abcdef "<Element/>">
>]>
><Element>&abcdef;</Element>


Understanding that this is an example but being picky.... this
resolves to <Element> <Element/> </Element>, which gets by the parser
all right but this seems to violate the part of the root element
definition that states "no part of which appears in the content of any
other element"

>
>SAX correctly reports two elements. xmllib incorrectly reports one. And
>it isn't fair to come back with: "Who cares about entities" because you
>were complaining about SAX's entity support. The real question is
>whether you would rather have low-level vs. correct entity handling. The
>answer is: a tokenizer should have low-level, a parser should have
>correct.

I want it all correct AND flexible <g/>. Now if we can just hook in
here and override there...

Bob



From thomas at xs4all.net  Tue Jan  2 11:34:21 2001
From: thomas at xs4all.net (Thomas Wouters)
Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2001 17:34:21 +0100
Subject: why no "do : until"?
In-Reply-To: <14927.34118.92255.985761@beluga.mojam.com>; from skip@mojam.com on Sun, Dec 31, 2000 at 01:13:10PM -0600
References: <92jj3j$ff7$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <05C6FUhLDNUU-pn2-tuTnzOCokxem@bill> <lgwFRKAp8nT6Ew$P@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <14927.34118.92255.985761@beluga.mojam.com>
Message-ID: <20010102173420.B2467@xs4all.nl>

On Sun, Dec 31, 2000 at 01:13:10PM -0600, Skip Montanaro wrote:

>     Becker> Python is actually a bit broken as continue inside try blocks is
>     Becker> not allowed.

> That is an admitted limitation of the implementation (because of the
> complexity of generating correct byte code), not a design constraint of the
> language.  This is being worked on.  In fact, it may be working by now in
> the latest CVS version.

Not yet. Almost. I submitted a patch to fix it (#102989 in the SF patch
manager) but it has to be reviewed by one of the -dev'ers with experience in
that area (other than me, for some reason ;). (It's currently assigned to
Jeremy.) It doesn't complicate the current eval loop much, and it doesn't
touch continue outside of 'try' clauses, so I have no reason to believe it
won't get accepted before 2.1.

-- 
Thomas Wouters <thomas at xs4all.net>

Hi! I'm a .signature virus! copy me into your .signature file to help me spread!



From bobhicks at adelphia.net  Sat Jan 20 12:16:38 2001
From: bobhicks at adelphia.net (Robert L Hicks)
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 17:16:38 GMT
Subject: Indention - went to the source
Message-ID: <B68F31FF.9227%bobhicks@adelphia.net>

One of Guido's essays...

"Use the default of Emacs Python-mode: 4 spaces for one indentation level."



From alet at unice.fr  Tue Jan 23 04:36:39 2001
From: alet at unice.fr (Jerome Alet)
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 10:36:39 +0100
Subject: XML doc generation
References: <mailman.980213426.3545.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3A6D50A7.8F4ACFCB@unice.fr>

Jonathan Pennington wrote:
> Does anyone have some code(script?) I can read that does this so I can
> learn? Much of what I see in docs/archives is parsing of an XML
> document. I, however, have long strings of coordinate data and info
> that I currently parse into a large nested dictionary. I'd like to be
> able to convert this into an XML format instead of or in addition to a
> dictionary.

I suggest you to download my XML generation module jaxml from:

http://cortex.unice.fr/~jerome/jaxml

the latest version is 1.22

with this module generating XML has never been more easy:

>>> import jaxml
>>> myxmldoc = jaxml.XML_document()
>>> myxmldoc.DataSet(type="coordinate")
>>> myxmldoc.CoordinateSet(type="waypoint")
>>> myxmldoc.datapoint(number="gh456")
>>> myxmldoc.name("WAYPNT")
>>> myxmldoc._output()                

Gives:

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="iso-8859-1"?>
<DataSet type="coordinate">
    <CoordinateSet type="waypoint">
        <datapoint number="gh456">
            <name>
                WAYPNT
            </name>
        </datapoint>
    </CoordinateSet>
</DataSet>

Hoping this will help.

-- 
Jerome Alet - alet at unice.fr - http://cortex.unice.fr/~jerome
Fac de Medecine de Nice        http://wwwmed.unice.fr 
Tel: (+33) 4 93 37 76 30     Fax: (+33) 4 93 53 15 15
28 Avenue de Valombrose - 06107 NICE Cedex 2 - FRANCE


From grante at visi.com  Tue Jan  2 11:21:43 2001
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2001 16:21:43 GMT
Subject: A Suggestion for Python Colon Syntax
References: <20001224010638.J5515@xs4all.nl> <mailman.977685437.23291.python-list@python.org> <92ai3u$ise$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <ren46.7756$4c.581466@ruti.visi.com>

In article <92ai3u$ise$1 at nnrp1.deja.com>, David C. Ullrich wrote:

>That's too bad. (I mean really: Take for example a little while
>ago in another place, when I was a bit exasperated at someone
>who seemed to want the group to do _everything_ for him. I
>stated that it wasn't possible to write a function in Pascal
>that would determine whether a filename matched a filter like
>*.this or that?.ext (the point being sort of it _must_ be
>impossible, because if it were possible then all he had to do was
>do it and his problem was solved.)  If I'd included an explicit
>wank it woulda spoiled it, imo.

Please, no explicit wanking in the newsgroup...

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  Now, let's SEND OUT
                                  at               for QUICHE!!
                               visi.com            


From erno-news at erno.iki.fi  Sun Jan 21 23:26:14 2001
From: erno-news at erno.iki.fi (Erno Kuusela)
Date: 22 Jan 2001 06:26:14 +0200
Subject: python-mode & emacs settings (was: Re: Tabbing/Spaces & python-mode)
References: <mailman.980018603.30482.python-list@python.org> <ku7l3qatuc.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi> <mailman.980032109.7884.python-list@python.org> <kuk87p9cx8.fsf_-_@lasipalatsi.fi>
Message-ID: <kubst09pqx.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>

In article <kuk87p9cx8.fsf_-_ at lasipalatsi.fi>, Erno Kuusela

|   (shell-command (format "gnome-moz-remote "
|                          "'http://www.cwi.nl/www.python.org/doc/current/"
|                          "lib/module-%s.html'"
|                          module-name)))

oops, i broke the line for posting but it seems to break it.
try
   (shell-command (format "gnome-moz-remote "
                          "'http://www.cwi.nl/www.python.org/doc/current/lib/module-%s.html'"
                           ...
instead.

  -- erno


From max at alcyone.com  Sat Jan 13 13:36:21 2001
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 10:36:21 -0800
Subject: No meta-type in Python?
References: <93q4og$ppg$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <3A60A025.AA9A2672@alcyone.com>

Chris Ryland wrote:

> Just out of curiousity, why is there no <type 'type'> in Python?
> 
> I.e., I'd expect type(Ellipsis) to be <type 'type'> rather than
> <type 'ellipsis'>.

There is:

max at charmaine:~% python
Python 2.0 (#5, Nov 10 2000, 21:47:15) 
[GCC egcs-2.91.66 19990314/Linux (egcs-1.1.2 release)] on linux2
Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> Ellipsis
Ellipsis
>>> type(Ellipsis)
<type 'ellipsis'>
>>> type(type(Ellipsis))
<type 'type'>

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, US / 37 20 N 121 53 W / ICQ16063900 / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ The revolution will not televised
\__/ Public Enemy
    7 sisters productions / http://www.7sisters.com/
 Web design for the future.


From dan at eevolved.com  Tue Jan 30 17:14:18 2001
From: dan at eevolved.com (Dan Parisien)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 22:14:18 GMT
Subject: Fatal Python error: Interpreter not initialized (version mismatch?) 
References: <zlDd6.177240$f36.6941177@news20.bellglobal.com> <cOFd6.13572$Pm2.265491@news20.bellglobal.com> <XmGd6.10302$Qb7.1527073@newsb.telia.net>
Message-ID: <_0Hd6.178025$f36.6972785@news20.bellglobal.com>

Fredrik Lundh wrote:

> Dan Parisien wrote:
> > If I do not use a thread for the server loop, it does not give the
> > error. The method is called fine, the data decrypted, then unpickled and
> > life is good. There is a problem however... I have no ____ing clue why
> > that happens. Does anyone in python devel know what triggers that error
> > msg?
> 
> it's triggered if Py_InitModule is called (usually by an extension
> module) before the interpreter itself has been initialized.
> 
> on Windows, this can happen if a new version of the interpreter
> picks up an extension linked against an older version of the Python
> DLL, and that DLL is still present.  The runtime linker will then load
> the old DLL (without calling Py_Initialize), and the module ends up
> calling the wrong version of Py_InitModule, in an uninitialized DLL.
> 
> Cheers /F
> 
> 

Thank you for your quick reply.

I grepped the python source code and found that output error. I've tested 
the module under many conditions and it works fine. It only crashes if the 
socket server is in its own thread and each connection has their own thread.

I hope this is a flaw in my code and not in python because I rely on having 
one or more socket servers in their own thread on a listen loop (which I 
had to remove because of this weird problem).

The module in question was compiled on a Mandrake Linux 7.2 system using 
gcc 2.95.3 and swig 1.3u-20001002-1724 (Alpha 3) (ha! say that 3 times 
fast).

Except for this newsgroup, are there other areas where I can get help on a 
subject like this?

Thank you again (this will probably never end ;)
Dan


From skip at mojam.com  Sun Jan 14 23:12:45 2001
From: skip at mojam.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 22:12:45 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Python 3000.  Here we go again.
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0101142011080.14128-100000@y.glue.umd.edu>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0101142011080.14128-100000@y.glue.umd.edu>
Message-ID: <14946.30909.39607.240667@beluga.mojam.com>

    Roy> - has anyone been thinking about a new design for Python?
Yes.
    Roy> - is there any moderated forum specifically for Py3k brainstorming? 
Not that I'm aware of.

As far as I know, Py3k is still mostly in Guido's head, though I imagine
he's been discussing it with his closest associates when they haven't been
working on Python2.0, Python2.1, migrating from CNRI to BeOpen, and
migrating from BeOpen to Digital Creations.  All these things have probably
conspired to push Py3k out a bit.  The Python2.1 release schedule was just
recently updated.  I think alpha1 is due out this week.  See PEP 226 for
details:

    http://python.sourceforge.net/peps/pep-0226.html

There has been little discussion of it on python-dev that I can recall and
that's only been tangential to other topics.  You can browse the python-dev
archives at

    http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/

Your desires for static typing, real class methods, unification of types and
classes, lexical scoping and case sensitivity are shared by many other
people.  I doubt they will be neglected when the time comes to roll up
sleeves and get to work on Py3k.

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at mojam.com)
Support the Mojam.com Affiliates Program: http://www.mojam.com/affl/
(847)971-7098



From syver at NOSPAMcyberwatcher.com  Sat Jan 13 10:33:18 2001
From: syver at NOSPAMcyberwatcher.com (Syver Enstad)
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 16:33:18 +0100
Subject: Using Python COM objects from C++
References: <ixe76.2667$k25.38410@news1.oke.nextra.no> <93lsgt$q72$1@troll.powertech.no> <93mtn30qsk@news1.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <93pskk$69s$1@troll.powertech.no>

"Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote and wrote
innews:93mtn30qsk at news1.newsguy.com...
> However, you can save some boring manual work by letting makepy (and other
> allied tools) generate the Python 'skeletons' for you, directly from the
> information that is contained in the type library.

Yes, I've checked that path too, but I didn't find it to be especially
helpful in solving my problem which was ensuring that python assigned the
correct dispid's to the correct functions in my python class. Or am I
missing something here?

What would be really neat and maybe I'll look into it someday would be the
way python generates the outgoing interfaces in idl files. This process is
exactly what I am looking for because it generates a base class with all the
correct methods and dispid's.




From horst at proceryon.at  Tue Jan  9 02:46:18 2001
From: horst at proceryon.at (Horst Gassner)
Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2001 08:46:18 +0100
Subject: Python 1.5.2 and Tcl/Tk 8.3
Message-ID: <3A5AC1CA.E91DA8B3@proceryon.at>

Hello!

In the document "What's new in Python 2.0" in section 14 "Module
changes" I found the following:
"The Tkinter module now supports Tcl/Tk version 8.1, 8.2 or 8.3, and
..."

What happens if I use Python 1.5.2 and Tcl/Tk version 8.1 and above?


Thanx in advance
Horst


From moshez at zadka.site.co.il  Sun Jan 28 01:15:37 2001
From: moshez at zadka.site.co.il (Moshe Zadka)
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 08:15:37 +0200 (IST)
Subject: python-2.1 function attributes
In-Reply-To: <94vn23$j0k$1@panix6.panix.com>
References: <94vn23$j0k$1@panix6.panix.com>, <ul3snm8dfae.fsf@smaug.fsl.noaa.gov>
Message-ID: <20010128061537.5708BA840@darjeeling.zadka.site.co.il>

On 27 Jan 2001 15:53:39 -0800, aahz at panix.com (Aahz Maruch) wrote:
 
> One thing I'm not clear on from all this discussion is whether one can
> do this:
> 
> def f():
>     f.a = 1

Of course!

Python 2.1a1 (#2, Jan 27 2001, 21:08:11)
[GCC 2.95.3 20010111 (prerelease)] on linux2
Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> def f():
...     f.a=1
...
>>> f.a
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
AttributeError: a
>>> f()
>>> f.a
1

-- 
Moshe Zadka <sig at zadka.site.co.il>
This is a signature anti-virus. 
Please stop the spread of signature viruses!
Fingerprint: 4BD1 7705 EEC0 260A 7F21  4817 C7FC A636 46D0 1BD6



From gerhard.nospam at bigfoot.de  Mon Jan  8 18:43:58 2001
From: gerhard.nospam at bigfoot.de (Gerhard =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2001 00:43:58 +0100
Subject: Interbase/Python 2.0 (was Re: MySQL with Windows)
References: <yJd56.9184$KY1.25399@news1.rivrw1.nsw.optushome.com.au> <9349uh$h3i$1@news1.xs4all.nl> <uu27acbhc.fsf_-_@cs.uu.nl>
Message-ID: <3A5A50BE.298EBEDE@bigfoot.de>

Well, that was true until a few hours ago. Now this page has the latest
and greatest win32 build of the gvib Interbase module for Python 2.0 on
Windows. And the link now works, too :-)

Gerhard

piet at cs.uu.nl wrote:
> 
> >>>>> boud at rempt.xs4all.nl (Boudewijn Rempt) (BR) writes:
> 
> BR> Well, Andy links to http://home.t-online.de/home/err666/ from his
> 
> This page also contains a link to a precompiled Interbase module for Python
> 2.0 on Windows. Unfortunately the link is no longer valid. Does anyone
> have/know a precompiled one for the above?
-- 
Sorry for the fake email, please use the real one below to reply.
contact: g e r h a r d @ b i g f o o t . d e
web:     http://highqualdev.com


From claird at starbase.neosoft.com  Wed Jan 31 12:48:04 2001
From: claird at starbase.neosoft.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: 31 Jan 2001 11:48:04 -0600
Subject: Data management products (was: How do you lock your web app data?)
References: <956uqd$6st$1@newsreaderg1.core.theplanet.net> <958j810o2e@news2.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <D62094CDC48C0FCA.44A0CB1CEB4E1F76.B8EA27DB5535EBAD@lp.airnews.net>

In article <958j810o2e at news2.newsguy.com>,
Alex Martelli <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote:
			.
			.
			.
>Others will no doubt disagree, but: when I need 'serialization' of
>"edits" by different users I also need atomic transactions and reliable
>recovery from errors.  A halfway-decent RDBMS gives me all of that
>for free, AND very handy primitives for all kinds of data access.
There are also a few people who agree with Alex.

This time, I'm one.
>
>For a non-heavy-load application under NT, I would use MSDE -- a freely
>redistributable version of the [small version of] Microsoft SQL Server
>engine, optimized for up to 5 simultaneous accesses; you can freely
>download it from the Microsoft site (you are legally licensed to
>redistribute it without limits IF you have a license for Microsoft
>Visual Studio products, or else its Office professional version --
>but IANAL, so, *do* check the details on Microsoft's site!) -- in
>fact you can download and use (but NOT redistribute) the Developer
>Edition of SQL Server, which in addition to that same engine has all
>the usual GUI tools for DB administration, tuning, etc -- but MSDE
>comes with a small packet of non-GUI tools which an old dinosaur like
>me finds perfectly OK (osql.exe to pump SQL commands into any ODBC
>compliant engine via commandline and/or textfiles, for example).
MSDE deserves to be more widely known.  I
think Alex's description merits reiteration.
>
>But there are other and freer RDBMS which one might prefer, if for
>any reason one wants to eschew MSDE -- Postgres which has been
>opensource forever, Interbase which has been opensourced a few
>months ago, the newest version/descendant of Adabas (I forget its
>current name) which is also going opensource, etc.  Just make sure
Adabas D, I think, is the one with a no-charge
"personal edition" for version 11.0.

Postgres is improving dramatically.  It's al-
ways been good, I mean; it's picking up a LOT
of new capabilities.

Actually, all these Alex has mentioned have
capabilities that'll knock the socks off vic-
tims habituated to Access, for example.
			.
		[more good and even
		important advice]
			.
			.
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at NeoSoft.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://starbase.neosoft.com/~claird/home.html


From william_wicker at spectratechnologies.com  Mon Jan 15 14:19:12 2001
From: william_wicker at spectratechnologies.com (William Wicker)
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 19:19:12 -0000
Subject: win32all crashes win98
References: <3a621864$0$21002@SSP1NO25.highway.telekom.at>
Message-ID: <902A8FA48williamwickerspectra@207.126.101.100>

w.neff at tirol.com (Wolfgang Neff) wrote in
<3a621864$0$21002 at SSP1NO25.highway.telekom.at>: 

>Python extensions for Windows (win32all) work fine on Windows 2000 and
>also on Windows 98 SE / IE 5.5 when run within PythonWin. Withing
>python/pythonw, however, the same script causes kernel32.dll to crash
>with a stack error. 
>
>I'd like to run the following script by double clicking its icon without
>getting a python shell:
>
>    #MsgBox.pyw
>    import win32con
>    import win32ui
>    win32ui.MessageBox("Message Box","Test",win32con.MB_OK)
>
>Is there someone who knows a work-around?
>
>Thanks
>
>   Wolfgang
>
>
>
>
>

uhh.... rename it to script.pyw ???

    	William.


From jasonic at nomadicsltd.com  Sat Jan 27 19:38:22 2001
From: jasonic at nomadicsltd.com (Jason Cunliffe)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 19:38:22 -0500
Subject: Online books
References: <mailman.979041730.32584.python-list@python.org> <AlHc6.12068$Sl.590222@iad-read.news.verio.net>
Message-ID: <t76q8t6g75frea@corp.supernews.com>

Tom Connor <twcinpa at early.com> wrote in message
news:AlHc6.12068$Sl.590222 at iad-read.news.verio.net...
> Has anyone an opinion of "Core Python Programming" from Prentice Hall.

yes = excellent
search previous +ve posts about this book.

 - Jason




From bryan at eevolved.com  Sat Jan 27 13:32:24 2001
From: bryan at eevolved.com (Bryan Mongeau)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 18:32:24 GMT
Subject: Interested in a Crypto-SIG?
References: <3A72C8A3.C4B4D69A@stroeder.com> <3a72d11f.17643900@news.skynet.be>
Message-ID: <YuEc6.3712$fe1.72426@news20.bellglobal.com>

Daniel wrote:

> On Sat, 27 Jan 2001 14:09:55 +0100, Michael =?iso-8859-1?Q?Str=F6der?=
> <michael at stroeder.com> wrote:
> 
> >I would like to propose a Crypto-SIG.
> >Let me know what you think.
> >
> >Ciao, Michael.
> 
> 
> It would be nice to have the new AES in a Python module, just like
> BlowFish, TwoFish, TDES, etc.   All of these algorithms (written in C)
> can be readily found on the net.  Not a very easy subject, though...
> 
> best regards,
> 
> Daniel

Your wish is my command. :)
Check out a higher thread, I am releasing my AES python module. There are 
other goodies as well. 

enjoy.
-- 
<==================================>
Bryan Mongeau
Lead Developer, Director
eEvolved Real-Time Technologies Inc.
www.eevolved.com
<==================================>

"Heroism on command, senseless violence, and all the loathsome nonsense 
that goes by the name of patriotism -- how passionately I hate them!"-- 
Einstein



From rwklee at home.com  Wed Jan 24 21:08:50 2001
From: rwklee at home.com (Rick Lee)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 02:08:50 GMT
Subject: sockets: client dies...
References: <94kmt5$cuj$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <94ksfl$r2a$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu> <94ngqn$rph$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <3A6F8AB1.BDF23F5D@home.com>

You should be able to tell on the recv().  It will throw an exception, not
just return "no data".

Here is from a piece of working code I have:

try:
    data = self.connection.recv(MaxBytes)
except socket.error,v:

- Rick Lee

Keith Murphy wrote:

> actually, it's set to non-blocking.
>
> ::keith
>
> In article <94ksfl$r2a$1 at nntp6.u.washington.edu>,
>   Donn Cave <donn at u.washington.edu> wrote:
> > Quoth Keith Murphy <kpmurphy at my-deja.com>:
> > | what can you do when the client dies in a client/server socket
> > | relationship?  currently, my problem is that the server doesn't know
> > | when a client has terminated unexpectedly.  is there any way to do
> so?
> >
> > Ideally, that will close the socket.  If that happens, then the
> > socket becomes "readable" - that is, a recv() will return immediately
> > without blocking, returning '' (empty string.)   (I'm assuming the
> > socket is blocking, per default.)
> >
> > I don't know any way to tell the difference between "closed" and "has
> > data", prior to calling recv().  But you can tell the difference
> between
> > readable and "would block" prior to recv(), with select().
> >
> > If the client dies and the socket doesn't close, then it may be worth
> > while to figure out why it doesn't.
> >
> >       Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu
> >
>
> Sent via Deja.com
> http://www.deja.com/



From sheila at spamcop.net  Fri Jan 26 23:25:31 2001
From: sheila at spamcop.net (Sheila King)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 04:25:31 GMT
Subject: Parsing an mbox mail file
Message-ID: <20g47ts24jd075hhv7bf22fadqs0km3ff3@4ax.com>

OK, I'm using the mailbox module (see docs here:
http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/mailbox-objects.html )
to handle a file that has several messages saved in mbox format.

The following script runs:

--------------------------------------------------
import mailbox

infile = open("spam2.txt", "r")
messages = mailbox.UnixMailbox(infile)

while (1):
	currentmssg = messages.next()
	if (currentmssg ==None):
		break
	print currentmssg
--------------------------------------------------

where "spam2.txt" is my mail message file. However, it only prints out the
message headers, which is how I understand rfc822 module to work. I've already
written a few different scripts that use the rfc822 module. Basically, the
rfc822 module seems to handle only the headers, and not the message body.

In other scripts, I've retrieved the message body in this manner:

--------------------------------------------------
#! /usr/bin/python

import rfc822, sys

raw_message=open("message.txt", "r")
inheaders=rfc822.Message(raw_message)
body=raw_message.read()
print inheaders
print
print body

--------------------------------------------------

However, there was only one message in the file. Basically, getting the
message header reads until the first blank line, and then the file pointer is
positioned at the beginning of the body of the message.

If I use the mailbox module, and use mailboxInstance.next(), it will skip
right over the message body to the next message's header. The whole reason I'm
wanting to use the mailbox module, is so that I can easily get to the next
message in the file, and get it's headers. So, I definitely want to use the
"next()" command. How can I read the message body in between calls to next?

--
Sheila King
http://www.thinkspot.net/sheila/
http://www.k12groups.org/



From NoSpam at NoSpam.com  Mon Jan  1 21:00:58 2001
From: NoSpam at NoSpam.com (Tom)
Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2001 02:00:58 GMT
Subject: Electronic edition of 'The Standard Python Library'
References: <t7746.63812$59.17990421@news3.rdc1.on.home.com> <4f746.2529$AH6.401534@newsc.telia.net>
Message-ID: <uDa46.65273$59.18402781@news3.rdc1.on.home.com>

Fatbrain edition.

Attempting to get a response from some c/s dept. is the sort of thing that I
don't want to have to get into.

Yes, I could have printed it - but I thought I was paying for an electronic
edition (ie. searchable, convenient, etc.).

If anyone wants to know what a good electronic edition looks like, see the
'Effective C++ CD' by Scott Meyers - it's excellent.

Tom.

"Fredrik Lundh" <fredrik at effbot.org> wrote in message
news:4f746.2529$AH6.401534 at newsc.telia.net...
> "Tom" <NoSpam at NoSpam.com> wrote:
> > I tried to use my electronic copy of 'The Standard Python Library' today
> > (Jan 1), but was unable to.
>
> the fatbrain edition?  the mightywords edition?  the glassbook
> edition?  have you contacted customer support?
>
> > It is possible that I did something wrong - I have no idea - but I would
> > caution anyone else who might be considering buying this.  The book is
fine,
> > but the format is a complete hassle.  You pay your money, but you don't
> > really get the book.
>
> well, nothing stops you from printing it...
>
> </F>
>
>




From chalky at null.net  Sat Jan  6 21:18:20 2001
From: chalky at null.net (Stephen Davies)
Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2001 13:18:20 +1100 (EST)
Subject: Synopsis 0.2 Released
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.1010107130147.5835A-100000@localhost>

Synopsis is a source code documentation tool that follows a modular
architecture to adapt to different languages, comment styles and output
formats. Currently it supports IDL and C++ languages and HTML output. It
has the ability to scale to large projects, integrating well with
Makefiles to only update documentation for changed files. One of the goals
of Synopsis is to integrate the documentation between different languages, 
for example linking implementations in any language with their CORBA 
interfaces and vice versa.

It is written in Python except for the C++ parser, which is a module
written in C++ based on OpenC++. The IDL parser uses the omniidl tool from
omniORB which is also written in Python. Support for a Python parser is
planned for the next release.

Changes:
Release 0.2 adds C++ support and a rewritten HTML formatter. It is
complete enough to be in use by the Berlin Project.

Homepage:
http://synopsis.sourceforge.net/

Download:
http://sourceforge.net/projects/synopsis/





From tim.one at home.com  Thu Jan 25 23:01:41 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 23:01:41 -0500
Subject: CHECK_IMPORT_CASE
In-Reply-To: <Pine.A32.3.90.1010125211440.16957B-100000@elvis.med.Virginia.EDU>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCOEFHILAA.tim.one@home.com>

[posted & mailed]

[Steven D. Majewski]
> While looking for a way to solve the macosx case insensitivity import
> problem, I found in Python/import.c:

Sorry, but import.c is not a universal constant; i.e., unless we know which
version of the source code you're looking at, there's little more to be
said.

> #ifdef CHECK_IMPORT_CASE
> static int check_case(char *, int, int, char *);
> #endif
>
> However, neither I nor the linker could find the implementation
> of check_case. Is this a work in progress ? Does someone have
> a planned solution?

Since it's declared static, the only place worth looking is again in
import.c.  In the current CVS version, there are three implementations of
check_case in import.c, under assorted #ifdef branches.  Look again:  you'll
find it <wink>.

> [ And more generally, how would one find this sort of info?
>  SourceForge has a search function for Bugs, but not for patches.
>  I tried pulling down the cvs (instead of starting from the
>  2.1a1 distribution) and doing a 'cvs ...  history' , which
>  just hangs on me. ]

Remote CVS to SourceForge works fine "even on Windows", but can be tricky to
get working the first time.  Detailed instructions here:

    http://python.sourceforge.net/sf-faq.html

A search box for patches is a feature request SF is well aware of.




From fredrik at effbot.org  Wed Jan 10 17:52:36 2001
From: fredrik at effbot.org (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 22:52:36 GMT
Subject: mxTools (was Re: why no "do : until"?)
References: <Iw5jLKALa0W6Ewjq@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk><Pine.LNX.4.30.0101092015010.5204-100000@fep132.fep.ru> <mailman.979066090.17094.python-list@python.org> <t5nenubrrjou21@corp.supernews.com> <3A5CDD12.B1D0A857@cc.umanitoba.ca>
Message-ID: <UI576.5705$AH6.811741@newsc.telia.net>

Kevin Russell wrote:
> If it honestly turns out that there *are* fewer, then by the same logic
> the standard library shouldn't include the current broken DateTime.

if you have a broken DateTime in your standard library,
you've probably put it there yourself...

> If the standard library can't handle dates in the transparent
> and correct way that a user would expect (given the rest of the
> standard library), then it shouldn't be pretending to handle dates at
> all.

if you don't have a time module in your standard library,
you've probably removed it yourself...

(seriously, adding portions of mxDateTime to the core would
make a lot of sense.  I doubt all of it belongs there, though...)

Cheers /F




From moshez at zadka.site.co.il  Thu Jan  4 11:56:24 2001
From: moshez at zadka.site.co.il (Moshe Zadka)
Date: Thu,  4 Jan 2001 18:56:24 +0200 (IST)
Subject: Iterating over multiple lists (a newbie question)
In-Reply-To: <3a539f3a.445366109@localhost>
References: <3a539f3a.445366109@localhost>
Message-ID: <20010104165624.7F4F9A84F@darjeeling.zadka.site.co.il>

On Wed, 03 Jan 2001 21:59:37 GMT, victor at prodigy.net (Victor Muslin) wrote:

> I would like something like this (which obviously does not work):
> 
> 	for one,two in list1, list2:
> 		print one,two

This works in 1.5 (and later versions):

for one, two in map(None, list1, list2):
	print one, two

And this works in 2.0

for one, two in zip(list1, list2):
	print one, two
-- 
Moshe Zadka <sig at zadka.site.co.il>
This is a signature anti-virus. 
Please stop the spread of signature viruses!



From quickdry at users.sourceforge.net  Mon Jan  1 03:37:37 2001
From: quickdry at users.sourceforge.net (Steven Adams)
Date: Mon, 01 Jan 2001 08:37:37 GMT
Subject: tftplib ?
References: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0012310129140.9173-100000@saturn.ispol.com> <3A4EDF22.30F29C1@zip.com.au>
Message-ID: <llX36.2887$pG5.14584@news1.rdc1.nsw.optushome.com.au>

TFTP == Trivial File Transfer Protocol

its a very simple protocol that has no access controls built into it
like FTP does. Basically you issue a read/write request, and then
send/receive the data in UDP packets.

See RFC 1350
http://www.cis.ohio-state.edu/rfc/rfc1350.txt

Steven




From aahz at panix.com  Wed Jan 17 17:30:19 2001
From: aahz at panix.com (Aahz Maruch)
Date: 17 Jan 2001 14:30:19 -0800
Subject: Strange variable scope... is this right?
References: <gcqp39.jkk.ln@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <9456dr$a7h$1@panix2.panix.com>

In article <gcqp39.jkk.ln at 127.0.0.1>,  <gradha at iname.com> wrote:
>
>In another attempt to DTW (Dominate The World), I wrote an obfuscated loop
>just to see the scope behaviour of Python:
>
>f = ["row", "cow", "arrow"]
>for f in f:
>	print f
>	for f in range (len (f)):
>		print f

Since nobody else has suggested this, try a simple test:

f = ["row", "cow", "arrow"]
for f in f:
	for f in range (len (f)):
		print f
	print f
-- 
                      --- Aahz (Copyright 2001 by aahz at pobox.com)

Androgynous poly kinky vanilla queer het    <*>     http://www.rahul.net/aahz/
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6

A house is a machine to keep your cat dry.  --Aahz


From andreas at andreas-jung.com  Wed Jan 17 11:06:50 2001
From: andreas at andreas-jung.com (Andreas Jung)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 17:06:50 +0100
Subject: help with code for combinations/permutations
In-Reply-To: <3A65B95C.7539@hvision.nl>; from ivnowa@hvision.nl on Wed, Jan 17, 2001 at 03:32:46PM +0000
References: <944adl$2bf@dispatch.concentric.net> <3A65B95C.7539@hvision.nl>
Message-ID: <20010117170650.B24421@yetix.sz-sb.de>

On Wed, Jan 17, 2001 at 03:32:46PM +0000, Hans Nowak wrote:
> Bryan Webb wrote:
> 
>   http://tor.dhs.org/~zephyrfalcon/snippets/source/338.py

This code looks fine. However one should keep in mind that for a set of n elements
you have n! permutations. For a k-permutation you have n!/(n-k)! permutations.
So your result set might become very large :-)

Andreas



From hancock at earthlink.net  Tue Jan 16 23:39:41 2001
From: hancock at earthlink.net (Terry Hancock)
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 20:39:41 -0800
Subject: Are there Tkinter examples somewhere?
References: <20010117000807.198D9E951@mail.python.org>
Message-ID: <3A65220D.59AC3D84@earthlink.net>

Hi,
I'm trying to learn how to use the Tkinter toolkit
to build an applications in Python, and I'm
having trouble fathoming how to use all the widgets.

I've got a copy of Fredrik Lundh's "An Introduction
to Tkinter", but I need a bit more on some widgets.

For example, the "Scale" widget is very poorly
represented.  

Specifically, I want to know how to get information
out of the Scale object.  There's a "get" method
to poll it, but I want to have it trigger a 
response when it changes in a conventional object-
oriented way.  So, I guess I need to understand
the "command" option callbacks better and how to
use one with it.

But this is just one of many little problems I
have. Is there somewhere I can find sample
code and stuff to get me started?  As is, I'm just
guessing what options do based on the name, which
is very frustrating (at least the document does
list what the options are!)

Thanks!

-- 
Terry Hancock
hancock at earthlink.net



From m.faassen at vet.uu.nl  Wed Jan 10 07:24:25 2001
From: m.faassen at vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen)
Date: 10 Jan 2001 12:24:25 GMT
Subject: Silly question from a newbie
References: <S7M66.23342$0x5.1988326@news3.cableinet.net>
Message-ID: <93hk9p$g5m$1@newshost.accu.uu.nl>

Geoffrey Schneider <jefferrs83 at hotmail.com> wrote:
> This probably seems like a pathetic question, but...

We all have to start somewhere. :)

> I downloaded the 'Grail' browser made with Python.... but, being someone who
> only just heard of Python 2 days ago, I don't know how to start the Grail
> browser. How do I open it? There isn't a .exe file or something like that
> (which, being a dumb-ass Windows user for six years I'm used to having
> provided).

Hm, I'm not quite sure what the status of Grail is, but it hasn't been
worked on for some years, as far as I know. So I'm not entirely sure if
it's in running condition. You may want to try some other software written
in Python instead. A good resource can be found at:

http://www.vex.net/parnassus

> I'm using the Python for Windows thingy, as I don't have UNIX (apart from
> Linux, which I ordered from Amazon.com, but hasn't arrived yet!).

Right, as already pointed out, the Windows installer connected the
extension .py to automatically start Python, so it may be as simple
as simply doubleclicking on something called Grail.py (or possibly
Grail.pyw).

If it doesn't work, you can try through a DOS box; cd to the 
Grail directory, and type: python Grail.py

This may not work as the executable 'python' is likely not to be in your
PATH, so you may have to add some changes to autoexec.bat. If you 
don't want to do that, you can try something like:

"c:\program files\python\python.exe" Grail.py

Depending on where Python was installed.

Good luck with Linux, by the way; I prefer using it myself, though it
isn't yet for everyone, I expect (though getting steadily closer).

Regards,

Martijn
-- 
History of the 20th Century: WW1, WW2, WW3?
No, WWW -- Could we be going in the right direction?


From paulp at ActiveState.com  Mon Jan 22 20:44:46 2001
From: paulp at ActiveState.com (Paul Prescod)
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 17:44:46 -0800
Subject: XML doc generation
References: <20010122205436.A29328@coastalgeology.org>
Message-ID: <3A6CE20E.EB4D0072@ActiveState.com>

Jonathan Pennington wrote:
> 
> I need some XML help. Here's a snippet from the XML How-To:
> <snip>
> You can also construct a DOM tree yourself, and convert it to XML;
> this is often a more flexible way of producing XML output than simply
> writing <tag1>...</tag1> to a file.
> <snip>
> Unfortunately, I can't find an example of this.

If you understand how to put raw text tags then I would suggest you just
do that as the simplest thing. I've been processing XML for a long, long
time and I hardly ever find it easier to build a tree and then serialize
it. It is more often best to do the simplest thing...

 Paul



From erno-news at erno.iki.fi  Mon Jan  1 21:45:09 2001
From: erno-news at erno.iki.fi (Erno Kuusela)
Date: 02 Jan 2001 04:45:09 +0200
Subject: stack limits
References: <3A5109E8.A9C1F9A@mikemccandless.com>
Message-ID: <kuzohapt8q.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>

"Michael" == Michael McCandless <mail at mikemccandless.com> writes:

| Under UNIX, besides the shell's limit or ulimit command, is there some
| hidden per-thread stack size, perhaps compiled in by gcc?

| (I'm running Python 2.0 on FreeBSD 4.2, compiled with gcc 2.95.2).

one possible explanation could be threads. it is common to
implement thread stacks so that they are spaced eg. n kB apart,
implemented by eg. mmapping /dev/zero so that actual memory
is only faulted in if you really try to use it.

spacing the thread stacks further apart works, except on some silly
obscure legacy architectures with a too small word sizes and thus
address space shortage, like x86 :)

  -- erno, reading news on a 64-bit computer and basking in
           abundant address space


From tbryan at python.net  Tue Jan 16 00:02:19 2001
From: tbryan at python.net (Thomas A. Bryan)
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 00:02:19 -0500
Subject: Relational Databases and Python
References: <mailman.979589896.32678.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3A63D5DB.50B7DD0E@python.net>

glinds - Greg Lindstrom wrote:

> I am wanting to access a relational database via Python.  Knowing that a
> "simple" query such as "Why no "do until" statement" can generate replies
> for months, I offer the following:
> 
> *       What relational database to use?  I am constructing a routine to
> track incident reports for the volunteer fire department I run with.  I also
> want to track personnel information, training records, equipment, etc.  It
> will be a small to medium database (the databases I work with professionally
> run in the terabytes, but we spend millions on software).  I am looking at
> MySQL.  Whatever base I use must be free.

I join the other poster in voting for PostgreSQL.

> *       How to access the database?  I would like to use SQL via ODBC.  I
> have attempted to install the mxODBC module, but have run into trouble with
> the first step (get and install mxDateTime).  That's not a good sign.  I
> would like a simple communication to the  database (else I will write a "C"
> routine to do it for me!).  What's out there?

Pretty much any database will require a C extension module.  Depending on 
your platform, you can probably get a precompiled library for most of them.

> *       With an eye to the future, I would like to write a Web-based system
> so that I can offer this system to other volunteer departments in the
> county.  

Do you want to host the software for other departmenets, or do you want 
to develop an application that the other departments can download and 
use locally?  If you're thinking of hosting, then Zope may be a good 
choice so that you can delegate other departments' portions of the site 
to their personnel.

If you simply plan to develop an application, why restrict it to your county?
You might consider starting a Sourceforge project and turning this application 
into a free competitor to the commercial systems out there.

> We simply cannot afford $2500+ for reporting software 

Eek!

> How do I get started writing web apps?  

As always, start reading.  Then practice and play a little.
Repeat until tired with problem domain. :)

> I have good friends at work telling me that Perl is the way to go; 
> I program both, but am partial to Python.

Use whichever you prefer unless you know of a compelling reason to use one 
or the other.  For example, if you can't find an ISP that will host anything 
in Python (unlikely!), then Perl may be your only choice.  For simple web 
applications, either one will do fine.  For more complex applications, both 
may have different advantages, especially when it comes to pre-written code 
available under a license that carries no fee for your department.

For example, if you're planning to use Zope, then you should definitely 
start with Python.  If you're wondering what Zope is, read the Zope Book 
(a draft is available at http://www.zope.org/Members/michel/ZB/).  The online 
draft answered most of my questions about Zope.

---Tom


From fabrice.n at home.com  Wed Jan 31 16:36:22 2001
From: fabrice.n at home.com (shaka)
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 21:36:22 GMT
Subject: Any practice exercises for beginner???
Message-ID: <qz%d6.29887$KP3.8385706@news3.rdc1.on.home.com>


 I was just wondering beside the tutorial if there was any practice
exercises to reinforce beginners strength in python?
I can recall that when learning Java, some Java website offered some
exercises for beginners.




From tim at degree.ath.cx  Thu Jan 11 21:45:59 2001
From: tim at degree.ath.cx (Tim Hammerquist)
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 02:45:59 GMT
Subject: Speed of Python vs. Perl
References: <t5eojolijv1e58@corp.supernews.com> <WN366.240570$_5.53720921@news4.rdc1.on.home.com> <slrn95qtbp.94d.tim@degree.ath.cx> <cUj76.798$_y3.5047@newsfeed.slurp.net>
Message-ID: <slrn95ss55.9nn.tim@degree.ath.cx>

bowman <bowman at montana.com> wrote:
> 
> Tim Hammerquist <tim at degree.ath.cx> wrote
> >
> > I'm glad you mentioned this.  If speed is _that_ important for any given
> > program, consider if it should be written in a lower-level language such
> > as C/C++, or just cut out the processor intensive section, write and
> > compile in C, and link in.  Both Perl and Python support this.
> 
> Watch the C/C++ part :).

I will now, thanx.  =)

-- 
-Tim Hammerquist <timmy at cpan.org>
To steal ideas from one person is plagiarism;
to steal from many is research.
	-- Unknown


From jessw at loop.com  Sun Jan 21 01:45:35 2001
From: jessw at loop.com (Jesse W)
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 22:45:35 -0800
Subject: Why is "as" not a keyword?
References: <mailman.979902683.16063.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3A6A858F.20C8@loop.com>

Thank you very much, everyone!  You answered my question(s) thourghly
and (mostly) politely. ;-) This is why the python newsgroup prospers! 
Thank you.
Tim Peters wrote:
> 
> [Jesse W]
> > Why is "as" not a keyword?
> 
> Because-- and unlike "in" and "from" --it's a *recent* addition to the
> language.  Keywords are reserved words in Python:  you cannot use them for
> any other purpose.  Making "as" a keyword at this late stage would have
> broken any existing program that happened to already use "as" for its own
> purposes (vrbl name, class name, whatever).
Oh, now I understand.  Although it(making "as" a keyword) would be
neater, I see
why it would cause more problems than it would solve.
 
> > ...
> > Currently, it seems to me to be confusing when you type
> >       import foo as bar
> >  in IDLE, and import lights up as a keyword, but "as", which has to be
> > there and is clearly part of the syntax, does not.
> 
> Yup!  In 2.1 alpha 1 (due out Real Soon), I fiddled IDLE to color each word
> instance of "as", in "import ..." and "from xxx import ..." statements, and
> on the same physical line following the "import" part, as if it were a
> keyword.  This is a cheap approximation to the truth.
Ah, that should fix the confusion quite aceptably.

							Jesse W


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Thu Jan  4 17:10:10 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 23:10:10 +0100
Subject: 2001 Enchancement Wishlist
References: <3A4CEACB.220998A0@javanet.com> <Ro736.2511$Qb7.273102@newsb.telia.net> <92j83r13gh@news1.newsguy.com> <20001231175940.A5435@xs4all.nl> <008301c07501$c036ae40$43931497@martelli> <20010104165116.F2467@xs4all.nl> <008601c07675$0adf2020$102b2bc1@cadlab.it> <20010104203232.P402@xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <006801c0769b$ac0cc3a0$9d8a1a97@martelli>

"Thomas Wouters" <thomas at xs4all.net> writes:

> > A module object, in contrast, has no such flexibility.  It can of
> > course have *attributes*, which, as they can be anything (in particular,
> > they can be class-instances), are as flexible as can be -- but it
> > cannot present any 'face' to client-code, except its own.
>
> Nor is it intended to. Nor should you ever *want* to. *That* is why I
don't

Recapitulating: I said "it's a pity one can't do X".  You answered "but
of course one can" (do X).  Now, in contrast, you say that one's not
_intended_ to do X, and it's even a "forbidden desire" to harbor.  This
is in total contradiction to your original rebuttal of my "you can't".

> understand your problem with me saying that it's perfectly possible to use
> a module namespace to provide singletons.

I never said one cannot use a module namespace to provide singletons.

What I said was, and I quote, that a module "can't define special methods
to determine how it will print, how it will let usercode loop on its items,
etc";
and you sharply contradicted my "can't" by asserting "of course it can".
It's easy to check who said what when, you know.


> I don't give a gerbil's tush about semantics myself.

I.e., you don't care what words mean?  That would seem to square with
the self-contradictions above noticed, yes.  Or are you using 'semantics'
to refer to programming languages, to assert you don't care what various
programming constructs actually *do*...?

> I was merely making clear what /F suggested: use a
> module namespace to expose singletons -- and I still don't understand what
> your problem is with that.

My "forbidden desire" (to get in a module-object some of the nice
flexibility I get with class instance objects) is the only source of my
(mild) 'problem' with using module _objects_ as singletons.  That a
singleton (which is not a module object) may be bound to an
attribute in a module's namespace is certainly true (just as it may be
bound to an item in a tuple, or whatever), and not particularly
interesting.  Part of the lack of flexibility of module objects means
that the module cannot stop that attribute from accidentally being
re-bound to something different, of course -- a class instance COULD
do that regarding its attributes by defining __setattr__ suitably, of
course -- but maybe I shouldn't even *discuss* my forbidden desires,
as class instances are *intended* to be able to protect attributes
against accidental rebinding while module objects aren't, and that's
that...?

But anyway, what irked me was not basically what you _meant_ (not
being particularly well-provided with ESP, I could hardly guess that by
saying 'of course you can' you meant 'you cannot and should not
even *want* to'), but, rather, what you _said_ -- which now appears
you agree is utterly false and unfounded, and not far from the reverse
of your intended meaning (and if you think that by saying the opposite
of what you mean you are "making clear" anything, you must have a
peculiar view of 'clarity').


Alex



_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com




From erno-news at erno.iki.fi  Tue Jan 23 11:58:12 2001
From: erno-news at erno.iki.fi (Erno Kuusela)
Date: 23 Jan 2001 18:58:12 +0200
Subject: news - nntp server
References: <3a6daab8@news.xtml.co.uk>
Message-ID: <ku8zo28au3.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>

In article <3a6daab8 at news.xtml.co.uk>, "Nick Trout"
<nick at videosystem dot co dot uk> writes:

| I'm trying to set up an NNTP/newsgroup server on an NT4 machine.
| What is the easiest way to do this please. Can Python help me?!

unless you mean you want to write a nntp server, probably not
very much.

  -- erno


From fredrik at effbot.org  Sat Jan  6 15:36:56 2001
From: fredrik at effbot.org (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2001 20:36:56 GMT
Subject: Migrating to perl?
References: <3Fa56.4580$of7.216286@news1.atl> <mailman.978670867.31055.python-list@python.org> <V%c56.4648$of7.221797@news1.atl> <BLj56.3858$XZ5.132068@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com> <6Nk56.822$4Z.64804@news2.atl> <934nse02oal@news2.newsguy.com> <3A571F1E.2D25E978@python.net>
Message-ID: <IlL56.4068$Qb7.571143@newsb.telia.net>

Tom Bryan wrote:
> That's funny.  Although there *is* more than one way to do this in Python,
> Python users don't seem to care for exercises in finding and displaying
> "neat tricks" in Python.

people used to, but then Greg Stein posted this little obfuscated
one-liner masterpiece:

http://www.egroups.com/message/python-list/44950

"Try this on for size. Cut and paste it into an interpreter,
all on one line (if you can't cut and paste, then don't try!).

f=lambda
x=['31312405171810171211313126112','7189749374747628707','9626701','88738091
95908988937382747529513','807979748182306979652922711','25141421122626106','
hi there!'],z=globals(),y=lambda x: reduce(lambda x,y:x+y,map(lambda
x,y=x,z=lambda
x:int(x[:2]):chr((z(y[x*int(y[-5]):])^z(y[-4:]))+z(y[-4:])),range(int(x[-2:]
)))):map(lambda
z,x=y,y=x,w=z:z(z(w[x(y[2])],x(y[3]))[0],x(y[5]))(x(y[4])),[vars(z[y(x[0])])
[y(x[1])]]) and x[-1];print f()

:::

an annotated version can be found here:
http://www.egroups.com/message/python-list/44958

cheers /F




From kirschh at lionbioscience.com  Thu Jan 18 02:53:06 2001
From: kirschh at lionbioscience.com (Harald Kirsch)
Date: 18 Jan 2001 08:53:06 +0100
Subject: Automatic Documentation Tools?
References: <mailman.979786073.2627.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <yv23deh47q5.fsf@lionsp093.lion-ag.de>

Terry Hancock <hancock at earthlink.net> writes:

> I've seen a number of automatically generated documentation
> on the web for C/C++ source code.  Is there anything like
> this for Python?  I've taken over documenting a piece of
> code, and it would be nice to at list have a list of classes,
> attributes, and methods from which to work.  Seems like it
> ought to be automateable, but I don't know the fastest way
> to do it.

Look for htmldoc.py by Ka-Ping Yee <ping at lfw.org>, 29 May 2000.

I don't remember where I downloaded it, but it does a fairly good
job. You also need the module inspect.py by the same author.

  Harald Kirsch
-- 
----------------+------------------------------------------------------
Harald Kirsch   | kirschh at lionbioscience.com | "How old is the epsilon?"
LION Bioscience | +49 6221 4038 172          |        -- Paul Erd?s
       *** Please do not send me copies of your posts. ***


From mal at lemburg.com  Thu Jan 25 06:13:24 2001
From: mal at lemburg.com (M.-A. Lemburg)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 12:13:24 +0100
Subject: Python and ODBC?
References: <93tfo0$12p$1@ryu.it> <93upsf02pvl@news1.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <3A700A54.24F3965E@lemburg.com>

Alex Martelli wrote:
> 
> "Ryujin" <ryu-jin at bigfoot.com> wrote in message news:93tfo0$12p$1 at ryu.it...
> > Which is the best solution to work with python and a SQL database under
> Windows?
> 
> > What about under Linux? I'm trying to install mxODBC module with MySQL db
> > on a Linuxppc box.
> 
> I'll pass on this one, having no experience with MySQL (I don't even
> know if it supports transactions and stored procedures!).  I do know
> it's very popular, so I guess one can't go TOO far wrong with it.

If you want to write a cross-platform application then I'd suggest
using e.g. mxODBC. It is available for pretty much all flavours
of Unix including Linux and runs well on Windows too. (It should
also compile on Macs and other platforms provided that you find
ODBC drivers/managers for them.)

-- 
Marc-Andre Lemburg
______________________________________________________________________
Company:                                        http://www.egenix.com/
Consulting:                                    http://www.lemburg.com/
Python Pages:                           http://www.lemburg.com/python/



From mrivera at emsphone.com  Thu Jan 25 22:47:29 2001
From: mrivera at emsphone.com (Mark Rivera)
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 09:47:29 +0600
Subject: Newbie:Compile problems with DCOracle
Message-ID: <3A70F351.9ECF7586@emsphone.com>

I'm trying to compile the DCOracle Python Interface and I'm having the
following problem.
I do the make -f Makefile.pre.in boot PYTHON=python and it begins to
compile when I get the following message:
/usr/local/lib/python2.0/config/makesetup \
         -m Makefile.pre -c /usr/local/lib/python2.0/config/config.c.in
Setup -n  /usr/local/lib/python2.0/config/Setup
make -f Makefile do-it-again
make[2]: Entering directory `/home/username/oracle/DCOracle-1.3.2/src'
/usr/local/lib/python2.0/config/makesetup \
         -m Makefile.pre -c /usr/local/lib/python2.0/config/config.c.in
Setup -n  /usr/local/lib/python2.0/config/Setup
make[2]: Leaving directory `/home/mrivera/oracle/DCOracle-1.3.2/src'
make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/mrivera/oracle/DCOracle-1.3.2/src'

I then type in make and I get the following error:
make: *** No rule to make target `readline.c', needed by `readline.o'.
Stop.


I'm trying to install this on a red hat linux 6.0 machine with python2.0
running Oracle 8.0.5.
Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advance.



From t.harris at robinsons.co.uk  Thu Jan 18 10:11:44 2001
From: t.harris at robinsons.co.uk (Toby)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 15:11:44 -0000
Subject: Callback functions
Message-ID: <979830678.28930.1.nnrp-10.c3ad12d2@news.demon.co.uk>

I am in the process of writing an extension to python for Windows NT using
VC++ which implements a peer to peer network driver written in C++ compiled
into a DLL.

The C++ driver requires a callback into python code, I have got to the point
where a test function written in C++ to callback the python function works
successfully, but all attempts to call the python callback from within the
C++ DLL fail at :

    result = PyEval_CallObject(func, args);

I have printed values for func and args and they appear identical when
called from Python and from the DLL... however I get the following error

    The instruction at "0x0023f4b3" referenced memory at "0x0000000c". The
memory could not be "read".

I have scoured much of the online documentattion regarding extending &
embedding Python all without success...

Any help is much appreciated
Toby




From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Tue Jan  9 07:49:56 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 13:49:56 +0100
Subject: Python, ADO, VC++ 6
References: <R%966.323$l71.150865@news.pacbell.net> <93bcbj$lfl$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <Y1w66.177$w7.162743@news.pacbell.net>
Message-ID: <93f1g70218e@news1.newsguy.com>

"Keith Farmer" <farmerk at pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:Y1w66.177$w7.162743 at news.pacbell.net...
    [snip]
> ... I can't seem to access the (traditional) string class, even when
> importing <string.h>, which does exist and which VC++ can locate.  I don't

<string.h> lets you access traditional C string functions (strcpy, &c).
For the std::string class, you need to #include <string> (that's what
the C++ standard specifies, and what VC++ implements).

> know why this is.  In any case, this code now works and I should be able
to
> use the _bstr_t objects just fine for what I need them to do.

You're probably better off with bstr_t (in terms of convenience) thanks
to its transparent Unicode<->SBC conversions.  A performance hit, but
then, if you need to avoid that, you must use Unicode exclusively if
Windows/NT and/or any COM/Automation is involved.

Anyway, this has a bit less than 0 to do with Python, so I think that
if the conversation is to continue we should move it somewhere else.


Alex





From gregj at pobox.com  Thu Jan  4 19:50:32 2001
From: gregj at pobox.com (Greg Jorgensen)
Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 00:50:32 GMT
Subject: Iterating over multiple lists (a newbie question)
References: <3a539f3a.445366109@localhost> <3a54d0c5.523585234@localhost>
Message-ID: <sT856.231717$U46.7096316@news1.sttls1.wa.home.com>

Here's a somewhat generalized parser for simple argument/parameter strings
like command lines. You'll probably want to make it into a function or a
class for real-world use.

--
Greg Jorgensen
PDXperts
Portland, Oregon, USA
gregj at pobox.com



# command line or other string to parse
commandline = '-log -port 25 -file -debug -bogus dummy'

# args is keyed by the valid argument names
# args[arg] = 1 if -arg expects a parameter, else args[arg] = 0
args = { 'debug':0, 'port':1, 'file':1, 'log':0 }

# argp will contain the parsed argument list
# add any default values to argp here
argp = {'log':0, 'port':20}

errmsg = ''
paramkey = ''
for a in commandline.split():
    if a[0] == '-':                 # -argument
        a = a[1:].lower()
        p = args.get(a, -1)         # get parameter flag, default to 0
        paramkey = ''
        if p == 1:                  # next parameter will be associated with
args[a]
            paramkey = a
        elif p == 0:                # no parameter expected
            argp[a] = ''
        else:
            errmsg += 'unexpected argument: -%s\n' % a
    else:                           # parameter found...
        if paramkey:                # which argument does it belong to?
            argp[paramkey] = a
            paramkey = ''
        else:
            errmsg += 'unexpected value: %s\n' % a

# let's see the result
if errmsg:
    print 'errors:\n' + errmsg

print 'parsed arguments:'
for e in argp.keys():
    if argp[e]:
        print '-%s %s' % (e, argp[e]),
    else:
        print '-%s' % e,

print '\n'




From greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz  Wed Jan 31 23:19:10 2001
From: greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (Greg Ewing)
Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 17:19:10 +1300
Subject: curly-brace-aphobic?
References: <3A74EBD6.3C87FD15@seebelow.org> <slrn97a9fu.7sf.clgonsal@keeshah.penguinpowered.com> <3A757FBE.E54C5ECD@seebelow.org> <mailman.980789494.4239.python-list@python.org> <slrn97c6bs.bjo.scarblac@pino.selwerd.nl> <mailman.980870616.378.python-list@python.org> <95718r018s8@drn.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <3A78E3BE.AED8CABF@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz>

Grant Griffin wrote:
> 
> However, the rule that I seem to want to apply is "All indexers are indexed
> using the style of brace used to bind them."

But tuples and strings aren't constructed using any
kind of brackets at all:

   t = 1,2,3
   s = "parrot"

How do you propose to index those, using your rule?

What's more, there are many more indexable things than
the built-in ones. Extension modules can implement new
indexable types, and any class can be made indexable
by giving it a __getitem__ method.

If you want to index every indexable thing using a
unique syntax, you're going to run out of characters
very quickly!

It could be argued, I suppose, that sequence-like
objects should be indexed with [] and mapping-like
objects with {}. But is a class which has __getitem__
a sequence or a mapping? 

You could say that there should be two methods, such as 
__getitem__ for [] and __mapitem__ for {}. But that 
seems like needlessly multiplying entities. Why go to
all that trouble to provide two different indexing
notations when one is quite sufficient?

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept, University of Canterbury,	  
Christchurch, New Zealand
To get my email address, please visit my web page:	  
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg


From fredrik at effbot.org  Fri Jan 12 02:54:14 2001
From: fredrik at effbot.org (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 07:54:14 GMT
Subject: is Python fully object oriented ?
References: <20010110184830.13286.00000826@ng-fg1.aol.com> <3A5E5C21.3E036BFE@intelligenesis.net> <3A5E935D.CF641658@dcube-resource.be> <mailman.979279694.10695.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <GKy76.5649$Qb7.787381@newsb.telia.net>

Ben Hutchison wrote:
> I'd like to see some primary evidence of this "design choice" process, describing
> the motivating reasons. Presumably there are some web references somewhere. My
> instinct tell me it resembles an implementation consequence, rather than a free and
> deliberate choice.

    http://www.python.org/doc/FAQ.html#6.7

    "6.7. Why must 'self' be declared and used explicitly in
    method definitions and calls?"

    "By asking this question you reveal your C++ background. :-)"

(summary: python's not C++.  given Python's object model, this is a
simple and straightforward solution to the "is this a local variable or
an instance variable?" problem. and guido likes it. end of story.)

Cheers /F




From dubois at users.sourceforge.net  Mon Jan  8 19:40:19 2001
From: dubois at users.sourceforge.net (Paul F. Dubois)
Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2001 00:40:19 GMT
Subject: An IDLE window?
Message-ID: <T5t66.101567$A06.3539083@news1.frmt1.sfba.home.com>

I have a Tk application. I'd like to start up an IDLE shell as one of its
windows and pass it my own dictionary to use as its global dictionary.
Anybody done that before? Some of the archived messages on idle-dev make it
sound like it is old hat but I can't find the hat.





From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Wed Jan 17 05:36:54 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 11:36:54 +0100
Subject: Best way to learn Python ?
References: <aa8a6t895h8l3k2q7nmhd25oh6m7haulj9@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <943sn302g4p@news2.newsguy.com>

"J5" <johnny5s_alive at hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:aa8a6t895h8l3k2q7nmhd25oh6m7haulj9 at 4ax.com...
> No schools teach it, so what books do you recommend ?

O'Reilly's "Learning Python", by Lutz and Ascher, for a slow,
patient, very thorough introduction to the basics; or, if you
prefer faster pace and more breadth (but a bit less depth),
Manning's "Quick Python Book", by Harms and McDonald.


> Also, what are some cool programming projects I could do ?

Sure!  It all depends on YOUR interest -- what turns YOU on?
Python is so simple and powerful it makes it feasible to tack,
as one's "first serious project", stuff that it would be silly
to attempt in other languages.


> What do you guys write with python ?

My own "first serious project" to get acquainted with the
language was a little system to compute conditional probabilities
(when something is known about the hidden hands) in the game
of bridge, exposed on the web as a CGI for public access, and
able to present its results easily in several different natural
languages.  But that's just because contract-bridge is a game I
love passionately -- had it been something completely different,
Python would still be just as suitable.


Alex





From randy at spoke.net  Fri Jan 26 11:54:59 2001
From: randy at spoke.net (Randall Kern)
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 16:54:59 GMT
Subject: informal representation of long integers
Message-ID: <DZhc6.63$g4.22706@paloalto-snr1.gtei.net>

Using Python 1.5.2:

>>> str(10L)
'10L'
>>> repr(10L)
'10L'

Just curious why the 'informal' representation of 10L is '10L', rather than
'10'.
-Randy




From rwklee at home.com  Wed Jan 24 23:49:28 2001
From: rwklee at home.com (Rick Lee)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 04:49:28 GMT
Subject: Thread switching cost?
Message-ID: <3A6FB057.C4CD5200@home.com>

Does anyone have information on the performance cost of thread
switching?  Is it constant or what function is it on the number of
threads?  Is there a significant difference in the cost function between
platforms: Linux and NT?

Thanks.

- Rick Lee



From andrew_dot_henshaw_at_earthling_dot_net  Wed Jan 10 22:46:59 2001
From: andrew_dot_henshaw_at_earthling_dot_net (Andrew Henshaw)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 22:46:59 -0500
Subject: why no "do : until"?
References: <92jj3j$ff7$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <93i12s$ul5$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <t5qbfunpftsp0a@corp.supernews.com>

<gregory_wilson at my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:93i12s$ul5$1 at nnrp1.deja.com...
>
> > Can someone point me at an explanation of the logic for not having
> > do:
> > until
>
> A proposal I floated a year ago, based on feedback from students in
> the Python course I teach, was:
>
>     do:
>       first-half
>     while cond:
>       second half
>
...snip...

I almost like this, but it appears to me that it could be a maintenance
headache.  If you have a significant amount of code done in 'first-half'
then it would be easy for someone inspecting your code to focus on

while cond:
    second half

as being an entire loop, not realizing that control was returning to the top
of the loop way up in the code.  This would mean that every time you looked
at a while loop that was below an indented block, you'd have to check the
top of that indent for a 'do:' statement.

I wish I could make a counter-proposal; because, as I said, I almost like
this idea.

Andrew Henshaw




From jan.dries at dcube-resource.be  Sun Jan 14 19:44:57 2001
From: jan.dries at dcube-resource.be (Jan Dries)
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 01:44:57 +0100
Subject: Mod_python
References: <MPG.14ccedb45100f74989680@news.syd.connect.com.au>
Message-ID: <3A624809.5D9E1E30@dcube-resource.be>

Realware Systems wrote:
> Anyway is there a mod python (like mod perl) or PerlEx the active state
> version

www.modpython.org

Regards,
Jan



From tdelaney at avaya.com  Tue Jan 23 18:16:30 2001
From: tdelaney at avaya.com (Delaney, Timothy)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 10:16:30 +1100
Subject: How do I know all thrown exceptions of a function?
Message-ID: <B43D149A9AB2D411971300B0D03D7E8B0FBE0D@natasha.auslabs.avaya.com>

> > Sorry - all worries with backwards compatibility *except*
> > the basic one that functions would now need to declare the
> > exceptions they raise. I don't know how to get around that one.
> 
> What about the C++ approach: a function not declaring what
> exceptions it raises is deemed to be a "legacy" function,
> potentially able to raise ANY exception whatsoever (functions
> that need to express "I'll never raise any exception" have
> to do that explicitly).

I thought about this, and I think it's the way it would have to go, but I
*really* don't like it.

For a start, you shouldn't ahve to declare anything if you guarantee that
nothing happens. Lack of declaration should be "nothing happens".

Argh! From a practical viewpoint, this is the way to do it, but from an
aesthetic viewpoint ...

Tim Delaney
Avaya Australia
+61 2 9352 9079



From bvdpoel at uniserve.com  Mon Jan  1 18:54:19 2001
From: bvdpoel at uniserve.com (Bob van der Poel)
Date: Mon, 01 Jan 2001 16:54:19 -0700
Subject: module question
Message-ID: <3A5118AB.BDE840D5@uniserve.com>

A dumb (probably) question about modules.... I've got a monolithic
program I'm tying to modularize. Not sure if this is a good thing or
not, but it does seem to offer some promise. However, I've run into a
snag with references...

In my main program I start off with a

	from Tkinter import *
	from edit import Edit

Now, in the main program I call 'Edit', but it fails. Seems that I have
to insert a 'from Tkinter import *' in 'Edit' as well. So, does this
mean that each and every module needs to re-import all the 'global-type'
stuff? I suppose this aids in keeping data private, etc. but must add a
lot of overhead at the same time. Maybe I should keep my monolithic
program structure?


Now, to complicate my understanding even more...if I declare a variable
in the 'main' module or program how do I access it from imported modules?
For example, I might have something like:

	versionNumber = 1.4

in the mainline. Now, a module (and I guess it might be deeply nested), wants
to find out what version is running. I just tried a few variations of 'global',
but nothing seems to work. Passing this variable around to everyone who might
need it gets real old, real fast...so I'm thinking I'm not understanding something!

Obviously I need help.


-- 
Bob van der Poel ** Wynndel, British Columbia, CANADA **
EMAIL: bvdpoel at uniserve.com
WWW:   http://users.uniserve.com/~bvdpoel




From cjensen at bioeng.ucsd.edu  Tue Jan  2 13:31:01 2001
From: cjensen at bioeng.ucsd.edu (Curtis Jensen)
Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2001 10:31:01 -0800
Subject: Casting and module "array"
References: <3A4ECCA7.1F57833C@erols.com>
Message-ID: <3A521E65.CFE01D4F@bioeng.ucsd.edu>

"Edward C. Jones" wrote:
> 
> Is there a better way to cast arrays made from module "array"?
> Turning a large array into a list would seem to be slow.
> 
> import array
> 
> def cast(typecode, arr):
>     return array.array(typecode, list(arr))
> 
> if __name__ == '__main__':
>     Barr = array.array('B', [0, 1, 254, 255])
>     harr = cast('h', Barr)
>     print list(harr)
>     barr = cast('b', Barr)  # Fails.
> 
> I would use "astype" from Numeric (aka NumPy) instead but NumPy
> doesn't support unsigned short or unsigned long.
> 
> Thanks,
> Ed Jones

instead of using "list(arr)" you can use "arr.tolist()"  I believe that
it is pretty quick. The array from the array module is realy just a
list, tolist() Is not realy casting, it is returning the underlying data
structure.

-- 
Curtis Jensen
cjensen at bioeng.ucsd.edu
http://www-bioeng.ucsd.edu/~cjensen/
FAX (425) 740-1451


From rturpin at my-deja.com  Wed Jan 17 14:31:08 2001
From: rturpin at my-deja.com (rturpin at my-deja.com)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 19:31:08 GMT
Subject: threading: how to kill a (possibly blocked) thread?
References: <3A649FE4.E582D0E0@ll.mit.edu> <u1yu2vmiq.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com> <944ekb$ri$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <944mvr$9ns$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <944rts$dlf$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

In article <944mvr$9ns$1 at nntp6.u.washington.edu>,
  Donn Cave <donn at u.washington.edu> wrote:
> For me, thread dispatch from an event loop is really
> the only way to go in a seriously multi-threaded system. ..

Yep. That works great, with trusted code. You know
the event responses are short, and return, so there
is no need for the threads to do anything except
respond to events in their queue. Put in a "stop"
event, and it will do what you want. The problem is:
What if you don't fully trust the code? See my post
on guarding execution time.

Russell


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From alan.gauld at gssec.bt.co.uk  Wed Jan 10 10:03:55 2001
From: alan.gauld at gssec.bt.co.uk (Alan Gauld)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 15:03:55 +0000
Subject: An IDLE window?
References: <T5t66.101567$A06.3539083@news1.frmt1.sfba.home.com>
Message-ID: <3A5C79DB.7B61B4E3@gssec.bt.co.uk>

"Paul F. Dubois" wrote:
> I have a Tk application. I'd like to start up an IDLE shell as one of its
> windows and pass it my own dictionary to use as its global dictionary.

I'd have thought that was difficult due to IDLE being a TK app in
its 
own right and trying to run two Tk mainloops in a single app
would 
be "challenging". OTOH it might be possible to borrow some of the 
IDLE modules to bring up an IDLE component on its own.

I'll be interested in any answers on that front.

Alan g
-- 
=================================================
This post represents the views of the author 
and does not necessarily accurately represent 
the views of BT.


From objectway at divalsim.it  Tue Jan 30 12:13:25 2001
From: objectway at divalsim.it (Nicola Musatti)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 18:13:25 +0100
Subject: xor operator?
References: <mailman.980769755.13612.python-list@python.org> <slrn97cuta.eti.quinn@groat.ugcs.caltech.edu> <956pl6$8dg$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <3A76F635.822A26C2@divalsim.it>


Greg wrote:
[...]
> LOL! I grepped through SmallEiffel's standard library and found one
> place where the boolean xor was used: in part of a contract.

And was it really more expressive than a (very probably) equivalent "!="
would have been?

Best regards,
Nicola Musatti


From m.wilson at bibliocraft.com  Fri Jan 12 08:35:08 2001
From: m.wilson at bibliocraft.com (Mark Wilson)
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 13:35:08 -0000
Subject: Binaries for mySQL module ?
Message-ID: <00b101c07c9c$8bfe11c0$53824ac3@mwdell1>

>Are there binaries for mySQLmodule for win32 available ?

Perhaps you're looking for MySQL.pyd - the extension module
which allows Python to talk to a MySQL server. If that's the
case, you could check
http://www.zope.org/Members/philh/mysql which is a how-to
for getting Zope to talk to MySQL on Win32 and contains
links to various files, some you wont need. Don't forget to
get libmySQL.dll while you're at it.

Mark






From donn at u.washington.edu  Tue Jan 23 12:47:16 2001
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: 23 Jan 2001 17:47:16 GMT
Subject: Compiling Python 2.0 in DEC Alpha?
References: <slrn96r2j8.g68.pekko@soul.helsinki.fi>
Message-ID: <94kg34$glk$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>

Quoth pekko at iki.fi (Pekko Piirola):
| I'm trying to compile python-2.0 in DEC Alpha, which is running
| Digital UNIX V4.0F (Rev. 1229).  After reading the README and the man
| page of cc I figured out the commands I need to build the interpreter:
| (I have already edited the Modules/Setup)
|
|
| CC=cc OPT='-std -arch host -fast -D_REENTRANT -pthread' \
| LDFLAGS='-pthread -lpthread -lmach -lexc -lc' \
| ./configure --prefix=/usr/local/contrib --with-dec-threads
|
|
| make CC=cc OPT='-std -arch host -fast -D_REENTRANT -pthread' \
| LDFLAGS='-pthread -lpthread -lmach -lexc -lc' 2>&1 | tee make.output-1
|
| ./configure runs nicely but make stops with the following error message:

...
| cc: Error: ./../Include/pyport.h, line 390: #error \
|   "LONG_BIT definition appears wrong for platform (bad gcc config?)." \
|   (errormessage)
| #error "LONG_BIT definition appears wrong for platform (bad gcc config?)."

I don't know where it went wrong.  Look at config.h in the top build
directory, and I bet you will find that SIZEOF_LONG is somehow not 8.

It builds OK for me on roughly the same platform (4.0D).  Standard
advice for anyone with a build problem is to make sure to start over
with a virgin source directory, but I have a couple of specific ideas
for you.

First, if you can get "configure" to do its job right, you should be
able to simply type "make".  You don't need to specify a bunch of flags
to configure, and then again to make to confuse the issue.

Second, try to curb your enthusiasm for the compile options.  First
try it with nothing at all:  just type "configure".  Save the output.
If that doesn't work, then we really do have a problem.  Then add your
optimization options, OPT='-arch host -fast'.  Add -pthread there too
if you like, but configure already knows to use that in the link step
and as far as I know that's all you need.  Omit the --with-dec-threads,
which contradicts -pthread.  Omit LDFLAGS altogether, unless for a
specific library for some extra extension you have in mind.

The "configure" script is a major advance in cross platform software
distribution, but it is vulnerable to compiler issues.  Any damage
in the compile options will have numerous unpleasant side effects;
configure will run without any apparent problems, but not "nicely".

	Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu


From syver at NOSPAMcyberwatcher.com  Fri Jan 19 19:58:36 2001
From: syver at NOSPAMcyberwatcher.com (Syver Enstad)
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 01:58:36 +0100
Subject: Python COM and DCOM.
References: <3RV96.10957$wt2.125028@news1.oke.nextra.no> <3A686640.534195EE@gte.net>
Message-ID: <94ao0h$9ee$1@troll.powertech.no>

"Steve Williams" <sandj.williams at gte.net> wrote
> Just a thought.  Run dcomcnfg on your server, highlight Python server
name,
> click on properties and look at the location tab.  You may also want to
look
> at the Identity tab, as well.
>
I've done this on the client machine, what should I look at on the server?

FYI, I am already having several .exe C++ implemented COM objects being
accesed through DCOM from the same machine. Only the python object is
causing me headache.






From anonymous at zadka.site.co.il  Wed Jan 24 13:26:17 2001
From: anonymous at zadka.site.co.il (Anonymous)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 20:26:17 +0200 (IST)
Subject: Conspiracy Revealed
Message-ID: <20010124182617.1CFF1A840@darjeeling.zadka.site.co.il>

Another PSU conspiracy is revealed:
Tim is actually an alien intelegience, capable of taking over people's minds
First he took over GvR's mind, inserted the idea of writing Python, and
occasionally taking full control and posting to usenet.
Now, that Guido is fully commited to Python, Tim found his next target:
Alex Martelli, an innocent Italian software developer.

Evidence: Guido and Tim were *never* reported as seen together, *until* Alex
Martelli came into c.l.py and started to write scarily-timbot-like postings

If you meet any of the above so-called people, please take care.

The Anti-PSU SU
-- 
This is a signature anti-virus. 
Please stop the spread of signature viruses!



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Thu Jan 11 07:52:44 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 13:52:44 +0100
Subject: new enum idiom
References: <G6qzLy.6Fo@world.std.com> <938jmh$919$1@animus.fel.iae.nl> <3A58B9C0.9F2A5CC0@collins.rockwell.com> <93an8v02d2n@news1.newsguy.com> <93dde1$8d2$1@animus.fel.iae.nl> <93f3nb023mv@news1.newsguy.com> <90259DC4Arcamesz@127.0.0.1> <93i57b01qms@news2.newsguy.com> <90268BCE3rcamesz@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <93kb0m0r3s@news1.newsguy.com>

"Robert Amesz" <rcameszREMOVETHIS at dds.removethistoo.nl> wrote in message
news:90268BCE3rcamesz at 127.0.0.1...
    [snip]
> Oh, allright. let's just call it a *little* easier, then. I mainly like
> the lispy flavour.

Which is probably what will turn many other people OFF:-).

> Also, as a small extra bonus, you can use
> expressions with the tuple-notation. That allows you to do things like:
>
>    #global constants
>    base1 = 100
>    base2 = 200
>
>    #Someplace else
>    xx = enum(('foo',base1), 'foo2', 'foo3', ('bar',base2), 'etc')
>
> Of course, you can always eval() the right hand part of 'foo=base1',
> but the other form catches any syntax errors in those expressions
> before the program actually runs.

But the string-syntax goes one better by allowing, not just syntax
checking (at compile time), but also type-checking (at runtime) if
you wish to specify it:

    xx = enum('foo=%s'%base1, 'foo2', 'foo3', 'bar=%d'%base2, 'etc')

here, base1 is accepted whatever type it is (as long as it's able
to produce a string-form:-), but base2 is requested to be able to
produce an integer specifically.

Very un-Lispish, no doubt, but, IS this comp.lang.lisp...?-)


Alex





From syver at NOSPAMcyberwatcher.com  Sun Jan  7 18:59:46 2001
From: syver at NOSPAMcyberwatcher.com (Syver Enstad)
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 00:59:46 +0100
Subject: embedding python in C++
References: <934r1a$pda$1@troll.powertech.no> <93a3lp01kpg@news1.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <93b02a$tr8$1@troll.powertech.no>

"Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:93a3lp01kpg at news1.newsguy.com...

> For "grabbing the output", I assume you mean getting characters that the
> script is emitting to standard-output.

Yep, that's it.

> For that, it's somewhat simpler to
> do
> the 'output capture' in Python, with a StringIO object, then call its
> getvalue
> method to get the contents as a string.

Thank you very much, Alex. I had managed to solve the problem myself, but
your solution involves massively less code. Very helpful. (I made a Python
type in C++ and instantiated that in the python code, redirected sys.stdout
to it and got hold of the object and called it from C++ to get the string
after casting it to the C++ type, this is much easier.)

I am just playing around with extending/embedding Python to learn how to
interface C++ to Python and vice versa. As a suitable/interesting (to me
that is) project I choose to see how difficult it would be to make an isapi
extension (IIS) that processes url's that point to py files. If I could make
the ISAPI extension so that it could use cgi scripts written in python
without modification it would be neat.

I think my biggest problem is the multithreading and how that would affect
the interpreter. For the extension to work it is vital that each thread has
it's "own interpreter" so that code from the different threads aren't mixed
with each other. I have another posting that concerns this issue but I am
not sure if my requirements mandates using the Py_NewInterpreter function.





From fredrik at effbot.org  Mon Jan 29 19:04:58 2001
From: fredrik at effbot.org (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 00:04:58 GMT
Subject: function parameters again
References: <4ond6.158$pT.3554@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu>
Message-ID: <Kynd6.9804$Qb7.1498291@newsb.telia.net>

Hwanjo Yu wrote:
> The book says the parameters are passed by reference

in Python, everything is a reference.

> but the following example seems not. How can I pass it
> by reference in the following example ?

it is passed by reference.  but that doesn't help you here --
integer objects cannot be modified, and assignment doesn't
do what you think it does.

maybe this will help you understand:

    http://effbot.org/guides/python-objects.htm

Cheers /F




From bzhou at my-deja.com  Tue Jan 30 16:47:37 2001
From: bzhou at my-deja.com (bzhou at my-deja.com)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 21:47:37 GMT
Subject: Should I learn Python or Java?
References: <HEO56.5504$y9.2881293@typhoon.we.rr.com> <978840685.459818@emperor.labs.agilent.com> <3A5DF377.791E3DE0@comm.mot.com>
Message-ID: <957cpm$rnc$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

In article <3A5DF377.791E3DE0 at comm.mot.com>,
  stepheb at comm.mot.com wrote:
>
> Can anyone recommend some literature about design patterns that would
be
> helpful to someone learning to program python?
>
> --
> Stephen Boulet
>

"The Design Pattern Smalltalk companion" is a terrific book. Python in
lots of ways is more close to Smalltalk than C++/java. Once you go over
the syntax barrier, it's an easier read compared to the GoF book.

"Thinking in Patterns with Java" by Bruce Eckel
is available online at http://www.topica.com/lists/TIPatterns/
It uses jpython as example of Interpreter pattern.

Regards,

/Brian


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From sbrunning at bigfoot.com  Tue Jan 16 04:22:29 2001
From: sbrunning at bigfoot.com (Simon B.)
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 09:22:29 GMT
Subject: Usenet/mailing list bridge
Message-ID: <9413si$7sv$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

The bridge seems to have been down for a while - the last post to make
it from the newsgroup to the list was at around 17:30 GMT on the 15th.

--
Simon Brunning
A professional is someone who can do his best work when he doesn't feel
like it. - Alistair Cooke


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From fredrik at effbot.org  Fri Jan 12 02:39:26 2001
From: fredrik at effbot.org (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 07:39:26 GMT
Subject: Python Design Patterns (was Re: Should I learn Python or Java?)
References: <HEO56.5504$y9.2881293@typhoon.we.rr.com> <978840685.459818@emperor.labs.agilent.com> <3A5DF377.791E3DE0@comm.mot.com> <mailman.979261515.31284.python-list@python.org> <3cus5tk2n0qnhgfid5mnmauulc4gsjfnpb@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <Owy76.5647$Qb7.787368@newsb.telia.net>

Daniel Klein wrote:
> Since you mention it, what is the pythonic way to implement a Singleton?

alternative 1: create exactly one instance when initializing
a module, and store the instance in the module namespace

alternative 2: same, but use a factory function to create
the object when it's first asked for.

any other attempts to implement singletons are unpythonic.

> You don't have to provide a complete answer, just a pointer as to where to
> start would be fine as I like to try to work these things out at first for myself.

see

    www.deja.com => "singleton ~g comp.lang.python"

for more background.

Cheers /F




From moshez at zadka.site.co.il  Thu Jan  4 05:40:07 2001
From: moshez at zadka.site.co.il (Moshe Zadka)
Date: 4 Jan 2001 10:40:07 -0000
Subject: Unexpected result for list operator "+="
In-Reply-To: <931dri02c2g@news2.newsguy.com>
References: <931dri02c2g@news2.newsguy.com>, <3A542778.E1BC06E3@bogusaddress.com>
Message-ID: <20010104104007.5028.qmail@stimpy.scso.com>

On Thu, 4 Jan 2001, "Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote:

> "Assigning-operators" such as += operate *in-place* (for speed) if this
> is feasible (the left-hand operand is mutable), but, of course, not for
> an immutable left-hand side -- in which case, a new object must be
> created instead, and the left-hand side variable rebound to it.

Let me rephrase what Alex said in different terms: += and its ilk are
so-called linear update operations. That is to say, do them *only*
if you know you have not created aliases for your objects.

Good example:

l=[1,2,3]
l += [4]

Bad example:

l=[1,2,3]
old_l = l
#     ^ create an alias to l, called "old_l"
l += [4]

If you follow this advice, then simply treat the in-place semantics
as "always creates a new object -- but has nifty optimizations sometimes".




From othello at javanet.com  Thu Jan  4 18:11:45 2001
From: othello at javanet.com (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 18:11:45 -0500
Subject: 2001 Enchancement Wishlist
References: <3A4CEACB.220998A0@javanet.com> <92iv76$flh$1@slb2.atl.mindspring.net> <3A4ECDA9.E2796F78@javanet.com> <930af60qcn@news1.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <3A550331.594FEBDC@javanet.com>


Alex Martelli wrote:    x = theModule.makeFoo(1,2)

> Really?  How does client-code use the classname _except_ as a
> constructor?  So, if you're so keen to avoid having it call makeFoo,
> just change your theModule.py as follows:
>
> [snip]
> # we currently singletonize it
>
> _singleFoo = Foo()
>
> def makeFoo():
>     return _singleFoo
>
> # and now, the magic trick...:
>
> Foo = makeFoo
> -- end of theModule.py
>
> Now, the client code doing
>
>     myFoo = theModule.Foo()
>
> will in fact be calling function theModule.makeFoo, which can
> return whatever you desire.  It doesn't make the singleton design
> pattern any better, mind you -- but neither does it make any
> worse; if you ARE keen to have a callable, named "just like" a
> class, which isn't the class itself, it's pretty elementary.
>

I tried your code and it worked well.  Cool!
It inspired me to create a general purpose singleton maker:

def singlify( obj ):
    "Transform an object's class into a Singleton"
    globals()[ obj.__class__.__name__ ] = lambda s=obj: s

counter = 0
class Foo:
    def __init__( self ):
        global counter
        counter += 1
        self.counter = counter
        if counter > 3:
            singlify(self)
    def __str__( self ):
        return str(self.counter)

# Client code prints:  1 2 3 4 4 4
for i in range(6):    print Foo(),


> > The decision to make a object a Singleton or to
> > revoke that decision should be invisible to clients of the class.
>
> I strongly disagree that such "invisibility" is at all a desirable
> design target -- and, in any case, "having __init__ return
> something" would surely not accomplish it (or would you also
> abolish 'is', 'id', etc...?).

If a number of client's were already using the constructor, using
singlify() saves the client's from having to remap from the constructor
the were already using to a factory method of a different name.

I don't get what you mean by abolishing 'is' and 'id'.


> > Here is a revised wish (borrowed from AWK):
> >
> > Override the IN keyword for dictionaries and access the keys directly:
> >
> > knights = { 'lancalot':'good', 'gallahad':'brave', 'robin':'coward' }
> > for k in knights:
> >         print k, knights[k]
> > if 'arthur' in knights:
> >         print 'Not a king'
>
> The more I do Python, the more I like "explicit is better than implicit".
>
> Your request seems to boil down to having x implicitly mean x.keys(),
> when x is a dictionary, in certain contexts; taking 'black magic' (even
> in small doses:-) as a _negative_, rather than as good in itself, what
> IS the supposed benefit that offsets the cost of implicitness here?

The idea isn't totally out of left field.  Having tests for membership and
an interator for dictionaries comes from Awk, Perl, and SmallTalk.
Even plain English has an equivalent:  "Daddy, is Fragalistic IN the
dictionary?"

Benefit:  The proposed change is polymorphic with other parts of Python:
    for c in "Arthur": print c                                   # strings
    for k in ['lancalot', 'gallahad', 'robin']: print k    # lists
    for e in (1,2,3): print e                                    # tuples
    for k in knights: print k                                    # why not
dictionaries?


Thank you,

Raymond



From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Tue Jan  9 12:12:43 2001
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 17:12:43 +0000
Subject: mxTools (was Re: why no "do : until"?)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0101091923390.5204-100000@fep132.fep.ru>
References: <L3JTK6ALVzW6Ewyk@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
 <Pine.LNX.4.30.0101091923390.5204-100000@fep132.fep.ru>
Message-ID: <Iw5jLKALa0W6Ewjq@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>

In message <Pine.LNX.4.30.0101091923390.5204-100000 at fep132.fep.ru>, Oleg
Broytmann <phd at phd.pp.ru> writes
>On Tue, 9 Jan 2001, Robin Becker wrote:
>> >   Anyone here has any doubts that at least mxDateTime simply MUST be in
>> >the Python core? :)
>> >
>>
>> I'm a minimalist; let 100 flowers bloom, but the core should really only
>> include the minimal required. Fancy dates are a bit too far for me. I
>
>   mxDateTime is not for fancy dates. Many SQL modules use it for returning
>DATE/TIME fields from SQL. Think also about including it into Zope
>(replacing current simple DateTime)...
>
>Oleg.
...
SQL modules are even less essential in the core.
-- 
Robin Becker



From roger_callisto at hotmail.com  Thu Jan  4 09:42:39 2001
From: roger_callisto at hotmail.com (Peter Yu)
Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 14:42:39 GMT
Subject: Embedded Python Question
References: <92vjob$8rh$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <93224t$a86$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

Alrighty... found the answer for this one after digging through
rexec.py.  Apparently, all one has to do is override the method
r_exec_info() to return a chopped version of the stack trace
rather than simply "None" for the desired effect.


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From dsh8290 at rit.edu  Thu Jan 11 00:22:33 2001
From: dsh8290 at rit.edu (D-Man)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 00:22:33 -0500
Subject: is Python fully object oriented ?
In-Reply-To: <93j8jf$k3u$1@newshost.accu.uu.nl>; from m.faassen@vet.uu.nl on Thu, Jan 11, 2001 at 03:17:03AM +0000
References: <20010110184830.13286.00000826@ng-fg1.aol.com> <93iuqb$rn9$1@panix3.panix.com> <mailman.979178411.3072.python-list@python.org> <93j8jf$k3u$1@newshost.accu.uu.nl>
Message-ID: <20010111002233.C15770@dman.rh.rit.edu>

On Thu, Jan 11, 2001 at 03:17:03AM +0000, Martijn Faassen wrote:
| D-Man <dsh8290 at rit.edu> wrote:
| > On Wed, Jan 10, 2001 at 04:30:03PM -0800, Aahz Maruch wrote:

[much conversation snipped]

| 
| Anyway, there's no problem with doing object oriented programming in Python,
| and it's in fact more fun and easier than doing the same in Java and C++,
| by many reports (I can testify personally for the comparison with C++).
| 

I have used both C++ and Java.  I can testify that Python is easier
than both of them.  Memory management in C++ is a headache.  Also, the
maintenance of 2 separate files (header and source) is a pain.

| Regards,
| 
| Martijn
| -- 

-D



From bryan at eevolved.com  Fri Jan 19 10:28:26 2001
From: bryan at eevolved.com (Bryan Mongeau)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 15:28:26 GMT
Subject: win ce and python
References: <e026ZYXgAHA.268@cpmsnbbsa07>
Message-ID: <u2Z96.107219$n%.3577043@news20.bellglobal.com>

tony roth wrote:

> is there anything going on with python and win ce devices it seems to be
> kinda dead.  Any ideas or suggestions.
> thanks
> tr
> 
> 

Kinda strange how no one has answered your question yet,
Tony. Seems as if python for Windows CE is alive and well at

http://www.digicool.com/~brian/PythonCE/index.html

-- 
<==================================>
Bryan Mongeau
Lead Developer, Director
eEvolved Real-Time Technologies Inc.
www.eevolved.com
<==================================>

"Equations are more important to me, because politics is for the present, 
but an equation is something for eternity."-- Einstein



From msandin at remove_this.hotmail.com  Wed Jan 17 13:47:38 2001
From: msandin at remove_this.hotmail.com (Martin Sandin)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 19:47:38 +0100
Subject: mod_python/'import site' failed
Message-ID: <944pf1$8d3$1@news.gu.se>

Hello!

I'm trying to get mod_python up running and have run into the same problem
on both Win98 systems I've attempted this feat on. This after following the
instruction provided to the best of my abilities. Apache starts giving the
following message:

'import site' failed; use -v for traceback
Apache/1.3.12 (Win32) mod_python/2.6.3 Python/2.0 running...
'import site' failed; use -v for traceback

and then returning "internal server error" on the URLs pointing to Python
files. Now, I'd be asking this on the mod_python mailing list if it wasn't
for the fact that I've tracked dow that error message as something that
Python emitts. Thus given I'll ask this:

What does that error message mean? What has gone wrong? How can I fix it in
general? And if anyone knows, how can it be fixed in this particular case?



Configuration is as follows:

Apache 1.3.12 installed in c:\program\servers\apache\

mod_python.dll (for Python2.0) in the modules\ directory


In the httpd.conf file I've got the following lines where appropriate:

LoadModule python_module modules/mod_python.dll

DocumentRoot "C:/Data/Httpserver"

<Directory "C:/Data/Httpserver/python/">
AddHandler python-program .py
PythonHandler test
PythonDebug on
</Directory>


Python (2.0) itself resides in
C:\dev\Python20
which is also in the PATH. No PYPATH variable exists.

The mod_python directory, as extracted from the distribution located in
either of these (I've tried a bunch due to mod_pythons installation
instructions not being up to sync with the dist. archive)
C:\dev\Python20\mod_python\
C:\dev\Python20\lib\mod_python\
C:\dev\Python20\lib\python\mod_python\
C:\dev\Python20\lib\mod_python\python\mod_python\
etc.

The mod_python-2.6.4 directory has been similarly moved around (does it
matter at all?).


As a last piece of information, on the other machine I tried I used the
exact same (save some paths) configuration but with the latest (as of this
morning) versions of mod_python and Apache. The exact same problem.

THanks:-)


-
Martin Sandin
come.to/vague




From x at y.com  Wed Jan 24 22:40:22 2001
From: x at y.com (x at y.com)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 03:40:22 GMT
Subject: Timestamping JPEGs w/ PIL?
References: <mailman.980006598.21663.python-list@python.org> <Y_Pa6.2432$9v2.76312@quark.idirect.com> <_ZIb6.9089$Qb7.1302047@newsb.telia.net>
Message-ID: <GeNb6.7217$9v2.157835@quark.idirect.com>

Hey Fred;

Seeing as this is always such an issue for people trying to use text with
PIL, why not include at least a minimal set (take them from what I've
posted) with the standard distribution?

Either that, or it would be nice to have a small set available as a separate
download from either python.org, or pythonware.com...


just MHO...

Kevin Cazabon.


"Fredrik Lundh" <fredrik at effbot.org> wrote in message
news:_ZIb6.9089$Qb7.1302047 at newsb.telia.net...
| Kevin Cazabon (aka x at y.com) wrote:
| > I created some PIL font libraries that may be useful; finding PIL fonts
(or
| > good quality BDF fonts to convert) is the hardest part.  You can get
| > hundreds of them at:
| >
| > http://www.cs.usyd.edu.au/~piers/python/pilfonts.html
|
| As a complement to Kevin's excellent (and extensive) collection,
| I just zipped up some fonts I found on my disk, and posted them
| to:
|
|     http://effbot.org/pil
|
| This collection consists of bitmap fonts from the X window
| system (times, helvetica, courier, etc), converted to PIL's
| idiosyncratic font format.
|
| Cheers /F
|
| <!-- (the eff-bot guide to) the standard python library:
| http://www.pythonware.com/people/fredrik/librarybook.htm
| -->
|
|




From gregj at pobox.com  Sun Jan  7 05:07:07 2001
From: gregj at pobox.com (Greg Jorgensen)
Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2001 10:07:07 GMT
Subject: Iterating over multiple lists (a newbie question)
References: <3a539f3a.445366109@localhost> <3a54d0c5.523585234@localhost> <sT856.231717$U46.7096316@news1.sttls1.wa.home.com> <3a5566c9.135365705@newnews.prodigy.net> <QkD56.235798$U46.7334091@news1.sttls1.wa.home.com> <937rgo01rvo@news1.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <fdX56.239310$U46.7506599@news1.sttls1.wa.home.com>

"Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:937rgo01rvo at news1.newsguy.com...
> Almost, not quite.  It's closer to:
>     i = 0
>     while 1:
>         try:
>             item = list[i]
>         except IndexError:
>             break
>         i += 1
>         # the rest goes here
>
> I.e., the sequence being iterated upon with for does not have to
> define a 'length': rather, it lets the iteration know that it's done
> by raising an IndexError exception.

Thanks, Alex. That makes writing iterators even easier.

--
Greg Jorgensen
PDXperts
Portland, Oregon, USA
gregj at pobox.com




From junaftnoon at nospamplzyahoo.com  Mon Jan  1 09:43:32 2001
From: junaftnoon at nospamplzyahoo.com (June Kim)
Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2001 23:43:32 +0900
Subject: Year of the Snake
Message-ID: <HD046.21887$Aj6.1292110@news.hananet.net>

Happy new year Python users!

This is the year of the snake according to the 12 zodiacal animal signs
largely used in most of Asia  including Japan, China, and Korea. Taking it
as a metaphor, Python Users Group in Korea(PyKUG) is pleased to announced
that  this year is "the year of Python" in Korea.

As one way to raise the public interest in Korea, we are planning to have
the 2nd Python Seminar on Feb/2/2001. Having more than 1,000 members joined
in last year, we expect to have a larger number of audience in the seminar
than the first one.

For more information, please refer to
http://users.python.or.kr:9080/PyKUG/Seminar/02ndSeminar






From mak at mikroplan.com.pl  Thu Jan 11 10:09:37 2001
From: mak at mikroplan.com.pl (Grzegorz Makarewicz)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 16:09:37 +0100
Subject: Error in pythonic InternetExplorer hta application
In-Reply-To: <93k5cs$hc5$1@papyrus.erlm.siemens.de>
Message-ID: <NDBBIKNLJKPLOLAJJJAPCEMLFIAA.mak@mikroplan.com.pl>

try this:

<html>
<head>
<TITLE>HTML Application Example</TITLE>
<HTA:APPLICATION ID="HTAEx"
 APPLICATIONNAME="HTAEx"
 ICON="e.ico"
 WINDOWSTATE="normal">
</head>
<body>
<form name="where">
<span id=AddressBar style="overflow: none">
<span id=AddText>Address</span>
<input type=text value="http://www.?" name="TheAddress"
style="width:expression(document.body.clientWidth - AddText.offsetWidth -
AddGo.offsetWidth - 45)">
<input type=button value="Go" name="AddGo"><br>
</form>
<span>
<br>
<iframe name="TheFrame"
style="width: 100%; height:85%">
</iframe>

<script language=Python>
def TheAddress_onkeypress():
  if window.event.keyCode == 13:
    try:
      document.all.TheFrame.src=document.where.TheAddress.Value
    except:
      pass
    window.event.returnValue=0
    window.event.cancelBubble=1
  else:
    window.event.returnValue=1
def AddGo_OnClick():
  document.all.TheFrame.src=document.where.TheAddress.Value
</script>
</body>
</html>




From mwh21 at cam.ac.uk  Thu Jan 25 15:59:22 2001
From: mwh21 at cam.ac.uk (Michael Hudson)
Date: 25 Jan 2001 20:59:22 +0000
Subject: Hack request: rational numbers
References: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0101251759070.28148-100000@kev.ioc.ee>
Message-ID: <m3wvbjxs9h.fsf@atrus.jesus.cam.ac.uk>

Pearu Peterson <pearu at cens.ioc.ee> writes:

> Hi!
> 
> I am using rational numbers from the gmpy module and I find that creating
> one in Python using
> 
> >>> mpq(3,4)
> 
> is rather clumsy. Clearly, minimal representation of this rational number
> is
> 
>     3/4
> 
> but in Python this expression has different meaning.

Here's an idea: subclass code.InteractiveConsole.  Use bytecodehacks
to find bytecodes like

LOAD_CONST <integer1>
LOAD_CONST <integer2>
BINARY_DIVIDE

to

LOAD_GLOBAL "mpq"
LOAD_CONST <integer1>
LOAD_CONST <integer2>
CALL_FUNCTION 2

This isn't actually very difficult, but I'm not going to do it.

> 3) What are changes that these hooks will be accepted to Python core?

Can't speak for the people whose opinions really count, but my guess: none.

> 4) Is anybody else working with builtin rational number support for
> Python?

Maybe.  I suspect not enough to make a difference.  It's mooted that 

1/2

will produce something other than "0" in Py3K, but I can't remember
whether a rational or a floating point result seemed most likely last
time this went around.

Cheers,
M.

-- 
  Good? Bad? Strap him into the IETF-approved witch-dunking 
  apparatus immediately!                        -- NTK now, 21/07/2000


From t.keil at zvs.zgs.de  Tue Jan 23 14:25:52 2001
From: t.keil at zvs.zgs.de (Thomas Keil)
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 11:25:52 -0800
Subject: Python for 8086???
References: <mailman.979922625.29673.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3A6DDAC0.5ADF@zvs.zgs.de>

Hi Tony,

Python 1.0.1 works fine on a 8086 (my HP 200LX). You need an 8087
emulator; have a look at 'http://www.palmtop.net/super.html'. 
But I don't know where to look for libraries for Pyhton 1.0.1 - if you
find some, give me a hint, please.
 
 _  o         
| )_/#       
 T  <T        Th. Keil


From slhath at home.com  Mon Jan  1 12:29:57 2001
From: slhath at home.com (Scott Hathaway)
Date: Mon, 01 Jan 2001 17:29:57 GMT
Subject: Running Boa Contructor with the latest versions of Python & wxPython
References: <92ld65$4un$1@news.nuri.net> <92mrdn$um3$1@newsreaderg1.core.theplanet.net>
Message-ID: <p8346.110573$yR4.2966752@news1.rdc1.tx.home.com>

This problem can also be fixed by pulling the latest version of boa from
cvs.

Scott

"Franz GEIGER" <fgeiger at datec.at> wrote in message
news:92mrdn$um3$1 at newsreaderg1.core.theplanet.net...
> I went back to wxPython-2.2.1-Py20b1.EXE, and everything was fine again.
>
> Reagrds
> Franz
>
> "June Kim" <junaftnoon at nospamplzyahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:92ld65$4un$1 at news.nuri.net...
> > I tried to run BC on my windows machine installed with the lastest
> versions
> > of Python(2.0) and wxPython(2.2.2) and got the following error.
> >
> > Any roundabout ways to run it besides downgrading the Python and
wxPython?
> >
> > Traceback (most recent call last):
> >   File "boa.py", line 119, in ?
> >     main()
> >   File "boa.py", line 112, in main
> >     app = BoaApp(0)
> >   File "boa.py", line 49, in __init__
> >     wxApp.__init__(self, redirect)
> >   File "c:\python20\wxPython\wx.py", line 1646, in __init__
> >     _wxStart(self.OnInit)
> >   File "boa.py", line 58, in OnInit
> >     self.main = Palette.BoaFrame(None, -1, self)
> >   File "Palette.py", line 157, in __init__
> >     wxMenu(), self.componentSB, app)#palettePage.menu
> >   File "Editor.py", line 135, in __init__
> >     self.addShellPage()
> >   File "Editor.py", line 310, in addShellPage
> >     self.tabs.AddPage(ShellEditor.ShellEditor(self.tabs, -1), 'Shell')
> >   File "ShellEditor.py", line 26, in __init__
> >     PythonStyledTextCtrlMix.__init__(self, wId, -1)
> >   File "Views\StyledTextCtrls.py", line 137, in __init__
> >     self.SetKeywords(0,
> > AttributeError: 'ShellEditor' instance has no attribute 'SetKeywords'
> >
> >
> >
>
>




From juergen.erhard at gmx.net  Mon Jan 15 12:02:24 2001
From: juergen.erhard at gmx.net (Jürgen A. Erhard)
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 18:02:24 +0100
Subject: What's the difference?
In-Reply-To: <20001114182610.A24412@bigskytel.com> (message from David Porter
	on Tue, 14 Nov 2000 18:26:10 -0700)
References: <3a15e04a.517776278@news.demon.co.uk> <20001114182610.A24412@bigskytel.com>
Message-ID: <15012001.1@wanderer.local.jae.ddns.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

>>>>> "David" == David Porter <jcm at bigskytel.com> writes:

    David> * Simon Foster <simon at uggs.demon.co.uk>:
    >> Whats the difference between :
    >> 
    >> #! /usr/bin/env python
    >> 
    >> and :
    >> 
    >> #! /usr/bin/python

    David> the first is using the env program to divine the location
    David> of python using the users environment. The second is a
    David> direct path to python. The first is the safest bet if you
    David> do not know where python will be. For example, many people
    David> put python in /usr/local/bin. The first would still work,
    David> but the second would need to be changed.

Correct.

But it should be noted that the second form should be used for scripts
that have to keep an eye on security...  /usr/bin/env uses the user's
PATH, so it could be possible to get the user to execute a different
script than the one intended.

And absolute path avoids this.

Bye, J

- -- 
J?rgen A. Erhard    juergen.erhard at gmx.net   phone: (GERMANY) 0721 27326
          My WebHome: http://members.tripod.com/Juergen_Erhard
                    Bill Gates brought you Windows.
                Linus brought you the whole DAMN HOUSE!
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Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Use Mailcrypt and GnuPG <http://www.gnupg.org/>

iEYEARECAAYFAjpjLSAACgkQN0B+CS56qs3MygCdG49Kn4e1uVhWsC1sCD/cGmBf
998AnRiFdW5OjAJPdXusOAzJqj+w1ILa
=m6YQ
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----



From donn at u.washington.edu  Tue Jan  9 16:59:36 2001
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: 9 Jan 2001 21:59:36 GMT
Subject: dns reverse look up with python ?
References: <93ecvp$v21$02$1@news.t-online.com> <93fe1k$mh4$0@216.39.151.169> <U4L66.246946$U46.7820243@news1.sttls1.wa.home.com>
Message-ID: <93g1k8$mhk$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>

Quoth "Greg Jorgensen" <gregj at pobox.com>:
| Don't count on symmetry. The IP address you get from socket.gethostbyname()
| won't always resolve to the same name when you pass it to
| socket.gethostbyaddr(). Virtual domains, round-robin DNS, and load balancers
| are just three of many flies in the ointment.
|
| For example:
|
| >>> import socket
| >>> s = socket.gethostbyname('www.pdxperts.com')
| >>> s
| '216.240.147.136'
| >>> socket.gethostbyaddr(s)
| ('basic-igloo.winston.dreamhost.com', [], ['216.240.147.136'])
| >>>
|
| This happens because the pdxperts.com is a virtual domain on the host
| basic-igloo.winston.dreamhost.com.
|
| So be careful about what you expect from reverse DNS.

I won't guarantee that reverse lookup can always stabilize, but if
that kind of brain damage exists out there it's pretty easy to avoid.
In this particular example, it looks to me like the lookup DOES stabilize.
That is, 'basic-igloo.winston.dreamhost.com' is still 216.240.147.136,
and vice versa.  That second "real" DNS is the reverse lookup.

In a DNS rotor (round robin, load balance), the IP addresses should
resolve to non-rotating DNS addresses, where reverse lookup works too.
I don't doubt there are examples where it doesn't, but complain to them,
not me.  I think to a degree you can indeed count on reverse lookup.
If you have no better alternative, anyway, it looks pretty good.

	Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu
----------------------------------------
| "Donn Cave" <donn at oz.net> wrote in message
| news:93fe1k$mh4$0 at 216.39.151.169...
| > Quoth "Ralf Claus" <ralf.claus at t-online.de>:
| >
| > | any suggestion about this theme ?
| > | Is there a way for me (newbie) ?
| >
| > >>> import socket
| > >>> socket.gethostbyname('t-online.de')
| > '194.25.134.132'
| > >>> socket.gethostbyaddr('194.25.134.132')
| > ('www1.sul.t-online.de', [], ['194.25.134.132'])
| >
| > That's what I understand "reverse lookup" to mean.  Given
| > a DNS name, like the host name that appears in your email
| > address "t-online.de", first I look up the IP address with
| > gethostbyname().  Then, I look up the DNS address by the
| > IP address.
| >
| > Hopefully, after this procedure you have a stable pair of
| > IP and DNS addresses, so if you repeat this procedure you
| > will continue to get the same answer.  That's the point.
| >
| > Donn Cave, donn at oz.net


From paulp at ActiveState.com  Mon Jan 22 04:41:06 2001
From: paulp at ActiveState.com (Paul Prescod)
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 01:41:06 -0800
Subject: What does Python do
References: <94gmeu$4fc$1@sooner.brightok.net>
Message-ID: <3A6C0032.68DBD852@ActiveState.com>

Dead Dan wrote:
> 
> What kinds of programs can you make with Python. Does anyone have some
> examples.

Python is a general purpose language. It is used for everything from
small scripts to large, complex systems. It can be used for *almost*
everything:

http://www.lyra.org/greg/CaseStudy/
http://www.nightmare.com/medusa/
http://grail.sourceforge.net/
http://starbase.neosoft.com/~claird/comp.lang.python/web_python.html
http://www.sun.com/sunworldonline/swol-10-1997/swol-10-scripting.html
http://www-4.ibm.com/software/developer/library/python101.html

It would be easier if you described what you need to do rather than
asking what Python can be used for. What's a pickup truck used for?

 Paul Prescod



From tbryan at python.net  Sat Jan  6 08:37:39 2001
From: tbryan at python.net (Thomas A. Bryan)
Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2001 08:37:39 -0500
Subject: cgi
References: <3A549C1C.3EC97EB4@stea.nu>
Message-ID: <3A571FA3.90D49DC@python.net>

Lars Stea wrote:

> how can i deside wether a form field can be left blank or not?

I'm not entirely sure what you're trying to ask.  Could you tell 
us what you're trying to do so that we have a little more context 
for this question?

---Tom


From claird at starbase.neosoft.com  Mon Jan 22 09:53:11 2001
From: claird at starbase.neosoft.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: 22 Jan 2001 08:53:11 -0600
Subject: What does Python do
References: <94gmeu$4fc$1@sooner.brightok.net> <t1Sa6.4569$Yv.544288@juliett.dax.net> <94gvv5$7mo$1@sooner.brightok.net> <LPUa6.4598$Yv.546853@juliett.dax.net>
Message-ID: <2F4DC6312B7FE9DA.74AB95EBEF3C09D4.1D6BDBE5660A1914@lp.airnews.net>

In article <LPUa6.4598$Yv.546853 at juliett.dax.net>,
Dag Sunde <dag at orion.no> wrote:
>I think Python is _very well suited as a
>first language...
			.
			.
			.
I claim an even stronger proposition:  Python
is the single best language for most beginners.
Its applicability is as wide as *any* language
(yes, including C and Java), and it's quite in-
viting to first-timers.
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at NeoSoft.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://starbase.neosoft.com/~claird/home.html


From bowman at montana.com  Fri Jan  5 23:18:36 2001
From: bowman at montana.com (bowman)
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 21:18:36 -0700
Subject: Question about IDLE
References: <9364b7$qse$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <H%w56.180$Zf.836@newsfeed.slurp.net>

<one61803 at my-deja.com> wrote in message news:9364b7$qse$1 at nnrp1.deja.com...
>
> I've been trying out the IDLE IDE for python and the fonts it uses are
> extremely ugly.
> Does anyone else have this problem? If so, how were you able to solve it?

i'm not running Linux at the moment, so can't check it, but have you tried
setting the font or
fontList in an app-defaults file or in .Xdefaults?





From tdelaney at avaya.com  Mon Jan 22 20:12:10 2001
From: tdelaney at avaya.com (Delaney, Timothy)
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 12:12:10 +1100
Subject: How do I know all thrown exceptions of a function?
Message-ID: <B43D149A9AB2D411971300B0D03D7E8B0FBDFC@natasha.auslabs.avaya.com>

> I don't understand "things which should normally pass through (such
> as index-out-of-bounds)".  Pass through what?  When you later say
> "so they don't need to be declared in just about every 
> function around",
> does that account for the whole reason behind SilentException?

Well, the "index-out-of-bounds" (currently IndexError) is something that you
don't want to have every function declaring - but almost every function has
the potential for throwing it. Every time you do an indexed access there is
the chance of throwing the exception. Since indexing is such a common thing
to do and normally you don't need to worry about falling off the end, you
make it "silent". In Java terminology, this is a "RuntimeException".

> I don't understand the distinction between Exception and Error.
> Would you be able to catch Error the same as Exception?  If not,
> what happens?  If you can catch them the same as Exception, then
> it's just another category invented so you won't have to declare
> the exception?

No. You only put things as Errors if they are "the world is dying" type
things. This means you can do

try:
except Exception:

and Errors don't get trapped - only Exceptions and SilentExceptions. Things
which qualify for "Error" status include "the computer has run out of
memory, both physical and virtual".

It's still possible to catch such errors, but you'd better be sure you know
how to deal with them. Another good example of an error is "the module you
tried to import cannot be found". This is normally not an expected exception
- it's normally a "program must die" error. However, sometimes you want to
catch the error and import a different module.

Tim Delaney
Avaya Australia



From jkndeja at my-deja.com  Mon Jan  8 07:28:02 2001
From: jkndeja at my-deja.com (jkndeja at my-deja.com)
Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2001 12:28:02 GMT
Subject: escape sequences and string comparisons
Message-ID: <93cboe$ctj$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

Hello there

I've just discovered that when using the escape character in a string,
if the following character is _not_ an expected 'escape code'
character, the the backslash is passed on, rather than being dropped,
eg:

len("\'") == 1    # a back-tick
len("\\") == 1    # a quote character

# '\>' doesn't have a meaningful escape value
len("\>") != 1

I was expecting this latter case to give me a single '>' character, but
instead I seem to get a two-character string, '\>'.

Well, OK (although I'm still surprised). But I generated this string
('\>') using re.escape(), in order to compare strings with potentially
non-alphanumeric characters.

Since re.escape() simply uses the criterion of 'non-alphanumeric
character' to determine whether to escape a character, is there an
alternative function to 'escape only characters used in string literal
escapes', am I on my own, or am I missing something?

    Thanks
    Jon Nicoll


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From dlopezp at norsistemas.es  Fri Jan  5 02:23:28 2001
From: dlopezp at norsistemas.es (David López)
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 08:23:28 +0100
Subject: How to send cookies
References: <newscache$ylbn6g$ss1$1@news.cesatel.es> <932ab206uv@news2.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <newscache$cmho6g$plg$1@news.cesatel.es>

Thank you very much.

Concretely our problem is that we don?t know how to SEND cookies. We already
have worked with Java cookies. We would thank you if you can ask our
question.

            Thanks a lot.






From moshez at zadka.site.co.il  Mon Jan 15 21:35:11 2001
From: moshez at zadka.site.co.il (Moshe Zadka)
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 04:35:11 +0200 (IST)
Subject: client/server python examples
In-Reply-To: <F129b5YI9IJsaJbqJGN00016017@hotmail.com>
References: <F129b5YI9IJsaJbqJGN00016017@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <20010116023511.7AC3AA828@darjeeling.zadka.site.co.il>

On Mon, 15 Jan 2001 17:42:26, "anand v" <objectmulti at hotmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Could someone please provide some standalone examples
> of client and server written in python to communicate
> on sockets??? and also it will be very helpful if the server
> has some threads also..

httplib and SimpleHTTPServer enough for you?
Inherit from SimpleHTTPServer and SocketServer.ThreadingMixin
and you have a threaded server.
-- 
Moshe Zadka <sig at zadka.site.co.il>
This is a signature anti-virus. 
Please stop the spread of signature viruses!



From rol9999 at attglobal.net  Tue Jan 23 08:59:54 2001
From: rol9999 at attglobal.net (Roland Schlenker)
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 08:59:54 -0500
Subject: observer design pattern
References: <94i340$4er$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <3A6CA19C.89A6DFB2@attglobal.net> <3A6D0992.C86D92CD@home.com> <3A6D5BAB.2AB22E36@mail.dvz.fh-koeln.de>
Message-ID: <3A6D8E5A.476DE8E7@attglobal.net>

Stephan Effelsberg wrote:
> 
> Rick Lee schrieb:
> 
> > What Design Patterns book are you referring to?
> 
> He will most likely refer to the GoF book (Design Patterns, Addison-Wesley)
> and translated the C++ example into Python.
> There's no Python-specific pattern book out yet (at least, I don't know any).

Correct, when I read the Gof book, I rewrote many of the examples in the
Python
to better understand them.

Roland Schlenker


From root at rainerdeyke.com  Mon Jan 29 17:07:50 2001
From: root at rainerdeyke.com (Rainer Deyke)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 22:07:50 GMT
Subject: map and operator.add usage
References: <8okb7t067aicblsjr8idj726hdnt4pn04h@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <WQld6.131651$ge4.48029236@news2.rdc2.tx.home.com>

"Fernando Rodr?guez" <spamers at must.die> wrote in message
news:8okb7t067aicblsjr8idj726hdnt4pn04h at 4ax.com...
> Hi!
>
> In Lisp I can do:
>
> CL-USER 9 > (mapcar #'+ '(1 2) '(3 4) '(5 6))
> (9 12)
>
> but how can I do it in Python?

[reduce(operator.add, l) for l in zip([1, 2], [3, 4], [5, 6])]

...or...

map(lambda l: reduce(operator.add, l), zip([1, 2], [3, 4], [5, 6]))


--
Rainer Deyke (root at rainerdeyke.com)
Shareware computer games           -           http://rainerdeyke.com
"In ihren Reihen zu stehen heisst unter Feinden zu kaempfen" - Abigor




From neelk at alum.mit.edu  Sun Jan 28 16:47:07 2001
From: neelk at alum.mit.edu (Neelakantan Krishnaswami)
Date: 28 Jan 2001 21:47:07 GMT
Subject: [Off topic] allowed to put Python material on the Web?
References: <3a730931.31998180@news.skynet.be> <mf867t0go4en09o0of5r5johp8abgqvg2q@4ax.com> <3A73940E.2637C648@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <slrn9798qu.m44.neelk@alum.mit.edu>

On Sat, 27 Jan 2001 19:37:50 -0800, Erik Max Francis <max at alcyone.com> wrote:
>Sheila King wrote:
>
>> Technically, once the messages are posted to Usenet, anyone can
>> archive and copy them.
>	...
>> Authors of Usenet posts still retain copyright to
>> their own material.
>
> These two statements are inconsistent with one another.  (The latter
> is the one that is correct, by the way.)

No, they're not. 

When someone posts a message they have to grant permission to people
to copy, archive and redistribute their messages -- since a) that's
how Usenet works, b) since posting to Usenet is wholly voluntary, and
c) judges and courts are not entirely stupid.

But a wide grant of permission isn't the same thing as losing
copyright, as things like the X source license demonstrate.


Neel


From moshez at zadka.site.co.il  Sat Jan 13 04:46:58 2001
From: moshez at zadka.site.co.il (Moshe Zadka)
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 11:46:58 +0200 (IST)
Subject: How robust is Python ?
In-Reply-To: <93nh5u$9nk$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>
References: <93nh5u$9nk$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>, <9358nn$3c5$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, <9354f9$vbi$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, <LOBBJMHOIFOLFIPFANHJAEJFCHAA.zope@TheWebsons.com> <mailman.978716227.31692.python-list@python.org> <mailman.978721929.3640.python-list@python.org> <20010106103938.8FCAFA84F@darjeeling.zadka.site.co.il> <mailman.979313781.1111.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <20010113094658.9BFC9A82D@darjeeling.zadka.site.co.il>

On 12 Jan 2001 18:07:58 GMT, Donn Cave <donn at u.washington.edu> wrote:

> But back to the subject, I would be interested in more concrete
> examples of what exceptions we're liable to catch in a case like that.
> I have used top level handlers, but only as basically an alternative to
> the traceback, not to resume execution.

In my original message, I didn't say "resume execution" -- I said
"re-exec", meaning (sorry for not being clearer) using the exec(2)
system call to restart itself from scratch. I wouldn't just
resume execution after an identified exception.

-- 
Moshe Zadka <sig at zadka.site.co.il>
This is a signature anti-virus. 
Please stop the spread of signature viruses!



From J.Jonkers at acriter.com  Thu Jan 18 09:19:41 2001
From: J.Jonkers at acriter.com (Johan Jonkers)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 15:19:41 +0100
Subject: tables
Message-ID: <3A66FB7D.26B4CB12@acriter.com>

Hi!

I have been playing with Tkinter the past few days and I am kinda
missing a table-widget. Is it not there or did I miss anything? I
couldn't find any word on it in 'Python and Tkinter'. Just thought I'd
ask b4 I find myself forced to use a grid with labels and such..

So, is there a table widget?

Regard,
Johan Jonkers


From sandj.williams at gte.net  Tue Jan 16 21:25:55 2001
From: sandj.williams at gte.net (Steve Williams)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 02:25:55 GMT
Subject: How to call a stored procedure?
References: <3a64c959.600874890@localhost>
Message-ID: <3A65040B.1AB5909F@gte.net>

Victor Muslin wrote:

> I am using Python 1.5.2 on WindowsNT.
>
> I have a stored procedure defined in Oracle:
>

[snkp]

>
> cur.execute("execute vmuslin.delete_adserver(3)");
>
> The error I get is:
>
> Traceback (innermost last):
>   File "E:\dev\dclk\eng\src\apps\ADMIN_~1\xx.py", line 7, in ?
>     cur.execute("execute vmuslin.delete_adserver(3)");
> dbi.program-error: [Microsoft][ODBC driver for
> Oracle][Oracle]ORA-00900: invalid SQL statement in EXEC
>

[snnnp]

I don't know.  Try

cur.execute("call vmuslin.delete_adserver(3)");

instead.




From kmbotha at netinfo.ubc.ca  Thu Jan 18 01:00:49 2001
From: kmbotha at netinfo.ubc.ca (Kris Botha)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 06:00:49 GMT
Subject: Files and Directories in Python
Message-ID: <3a668633.136271945@news.interchange.ubc.ca>

Hi,

Does anyone know if there exists a way to check the amount of free
(available) disk space using Python? I've looked at things like the
os.stat() function but have found no answer.

TIA!


~~====----..----====~~
        Kris Botha



From m.faassen at vet.uu.nl  Thu Jan  4 22:33:21 2001
From: m.faassen at vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen)
Date: 5 Jan 2001 03:33:21 GMT
Subject: Migrating to perl?
References: <3Fa56.4580$of7.216286@news1.atl>
Message-ID: <933fa1$j2i$1@newshost.accu.uu.nl>

Joel Ricker <joejava at dragonat.net> wrote:
[snip]
> So basically what I'd like to know is, how do the two compare?  Is there an
> easier learning curve with Python?

>From my experience, yes; a couple of years ago I tried to learn Perl for
some days, and I kept getting lost in all the syntax options and other
things that didn't mesh well with my mind. Then I learned Python right
away without much difficulty at all, it just clicked.

> Are the modules and add-ons as good as
> perl (ie, Database -- I'm primarily interested in MySQL, CGI, Graphics).

While from reports perl's modules support (esp. CPAN) is still better
than Python's in some ways (there's more of it, and they're easier to
install), I've never had any trouble with Python. Check out the vaults of
Parnassus for a catalog of modules:

http://www.vex.net/parnassus

I've done databases with Python (mostly Access through ODBC and Postgresql,
but MySQL is supported as well), and CGI's fine too (though I mostly
use Zope: http://www.zope.org), and there are lots of bindings to graphics
and UI toolkits, depending on what you like. I've been toying with
pygame recently, which is pretty low level, though (http://pygame.seul.org).

> What about OOP?  Is it it a full OO language? 

Yes, Python does OOP just fine, and is a full dynamically typed OOP language.
If you are familiar with languages like C++ or Java you're in for a 
hopefully pleasant surprise; there is much less programmer overhead to
create and use classes than there is in those languages, due to the
simpler syntax, and dynamic typing instead of static typing.

> Is it easier than to use than
> perl?  Perl OO just feels like it has been cludged together.

>From my limited experience with Perl, definitely yes. I've been told Perl's
OO model is actually inspired by Python's, but I didn't spend enough of time
with Perl's OO features to know much about that.

In python this is how you make a class:

class Foo:
    def __init__(self):
        """Functions that start and end with __ are special, and this one
        is used to initialize (construct) objects in whatever way you
        like."""
        self.text = "this is some text"
        self.number = 15

    def get_text(self):
        return self.text

    def add_to_number(self, amount):
        self.number = self.number + amount # or self.number += amount

# now let's create an object of class Foo
myfoo = Foo()

# and use the methods
myfoo.add_to_number(40)
print myfoo.get_text()

> And lastly, what about the Python community?  Is it friendlier than the perl
> community?

The Python community's reputation is that it's friendlier than the Perl 
community, the flame war about variable initialization in the do..until
thread notwithstanding. :)

>  Too many times I've asked questions and all I'll get is pointers
> to documentation, which I've already read and so thats why I'm asking for
> information in the first place.  I understand simple questions for basic or
> novice information will warrant answers like that but not the things I've
> asked.

I've seen people beinn pleasantly surprised by the quality of answers they've
received in this newsgroup, so you may like it.

Good luck!

Regards,

Martijn
-- 
History of the 20th Century: WW1, WW2, WW3?
No, WWW -- Could we be going in the right direction?


From sholden at holdenweb.com  Tue Jan  9 16:37:09 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 16:37:09 -0500
Subject: A single, general looping construct? (was: why no "do : until"?)
References: <93euo1$drh$1@okapi.ict.pwr.wroc.pl>
Message-ID: <HxL66.2499$24.24441@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com>

Pawel Kedzierski <kedziers at pkmk486.ch.pwr.wroc.pl> wrote in message
news:93euo1$drh$1 at okapi.ict.pwr.wroc.pl...
> Hi there,
>
>   I become a python enthusiast a short time ago and even I adopted it
> as a programming language for my classes on programming in chemistry.
> It allowed to shift the balance of training/applications largery to
> the right side :-); However, I also found hard to explain why there
> isn't any repeat ... until replacement in Python.
>
>   So it is why I am here :-). The actual hot discussion i have read
> on this thread and before indicates that although the topic was discussed
> thorough the whole Python lifetime. So I'm not going to add any more
> pros as there were so many mentioned. I simply come with an idea,
> which seems attractive, so let's have it discussed.
>
>   As far as I understand, the main reason against another loop construct
> is the need to introduce a new keyword. Here is a solution, which doesn't
> need it. And, IMHO, it is simple, elegant yet powerful:
>
> Let's extend the meaning of try and while.
>
> The try: statement could begin both the exception control and the loop.
> Of course, in this case either the except clause or the while one would
> be optional.
> I would especially like constructs like this:
>
> try:
>   f = raw_input('Data file: ')
>   f = open(f,'r')
> except IOError:
>   print 'Could not open file'
> while not IOError
>
> What do You all think about it?
>
> Best regards
>
>         Pawel

Well the first observation is that nothing in your example actually
processes the content of each file.  Perhaps I can try to extend it in the
same spirit to see what the code would look like actually processing the
files...

try:
  f = raw_input('Data file: ')
  f = open(f,'r')
  try:
    l = f.readline()
    # do some processing on the line
  while l != ""
except IOError:
  print 'Could not open file'
while not IOError

In this example, no exception would be raised when the end of file is
reached. The readline() method simply returns an empty string.

The thing I don't like is that the test appears at the end of the loop but
actually needs to be perfomed halfway through it, after the readline() call
has been processed. This, I suspect, is the main reason why Alex Martelli
has returned so often to remind us about the Knuthian "n-and-a-hlf-times"
loop construct. (Alex: if I'm misrepresenting you here, do me a favor and
just let it go by this once, eh? &v)

Also, in both your original example and my extension, the final "while"
statement has a condition which isn't really a Boolean. You appear to mean
"as long as a particular exception has not been raised", but exceptions
don't really work like that. You would end up having to clear a flag before
the loop, and set it when the exception occurs:

flag = 0
try:
  filename = raw_input('Data file: ')
  f = open(filename, 'r')
  # Process the file
except IOError:
  print "Could not open file", filename
  flag = 1
while not flag

which does not seem to be a real improvement over

flag = 0
while not flag:
  try:
    filename = raw_input('Data file: ')
    f = open(filename, 'r')
    # Process the file
  except IOError:
    print "Could not open file", filename
    flag = 1

Also, of course, one might ask how this loop is intended to terminate
"normally"? Do you enter a non-existent filename, a blank line, and
end-of-file? How would this be taken into account, since no condition in
your pseudo-code addresses this question?

I hope I'm not being too critical here. I have nothing against attempts to
improve the Python language (despite the endless threads such attempts
generate). It says a lot for Python that so many people want to improve it
still further.  Just the same, I have a feeling that the language as it
stands is good enough that improving it further is a non-trivial task.

regards
 Steve




From paulp at ActiveState.com  Thu Jan  4 20:34:04 2001
From: paulp at ActiveState.com (Paul Prescod)
Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 17:34:04 -0800
Subject: AMK's ZODB package on Win32
References: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCOEMNIGAA.tim.one@home.com>
Message-ID: <3A55248C.2B201655@ActiveState.com>

Tim Peters wrote:
> 
> [Paul Prescod]
> >
> > I was going to try the compile and see if it was easy but I note
> > that you have filenames of ZEO and zeo in the directory ZEO.
> 
> Note that this is already the subject of a bug report from the last
> millennium <wink>:
> 
> http://sourceforge.net/bugs/?func=detailbug&bug_id=126724&group_id=15628

It turns out that lower-case zeo is a shell script so I guess I don't
need it to build. I can send some or all of these files to anyone who
needs them:

 Directory of C:\temp\zodb\BTree\build\lib.win32-2.0

01/04/2001  05:03p              28,672 BTree.pyd
01/04/2001  05:03p              28,672 IIBTree.pyd
01/04/2001  05:03p              20,480 intSet.pyd
01/04/2001  05:03p              28,672 IOBTree.pyd
01/04/2001  05:03p              28,672 OIBTree.pyd
               5 File(s)        135,168 bytes

 Directory of C:\temp\zodb\ExtensionClass\build\lib.win32-2.0

01/04/2001  05:04p              28,672 Acquisition.pyd
01/04/2001  05:04p              57,344 ExtensionClass.pyd
01/04/2001  05:04p              20,480 MethodObject.pyd
01/04/2001  05:04p              20,480 Missing.pyd
01/04/2001  05:04p              20,480 MultiMapping.pyd
01/04/2001  05:04p              20,480 Sync.pyd
01/04/2001  05:04p              20,480 ThreadLock.pyd
               7 File(s)        188,416 bytes

 Directory of C:\temp\zodb\SearchIndex\build\lib.win32-2.0\SearchIndex

01/04/2001  05:04p              20,480 Query.pyd
01/04/2001  05:04p              20,480 Splitter.pyd
               2 File(s)         40,960 bytes

 Directory of C:\temp\zodb\ZODB\build\lib.win32-2.0\ZODB

01/04/2001  05:04p              20,480 coptimizations.pyd
01/04/2001  05:04p              24,576 cPersistence.pyd
01/04/2001  05:04p              24,576 cPickleCache.pyd
01/04/2001  05:04p              20,480 TimeStamp.pyd
01/04/2001  05:04p              20,480 winlock.pyd

Hopefully that's a complete set. I don't know anything about Zeo.

 Paul Prescod



From glenfant at equod.com.nospam  Thu Jan 11 11:16:12 2001
From: glenfant at equod.com.nospam (Gilles Lenfant)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 17:16:12 +0100
Subject: Ingres II and Python
References: <93kiqc$5k6$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <93klv7$3hb$1@reader1.imaginet.fr>

Have you got an ODBC driver for Ingres (either Unix or Windows) ?

If Yes, get mxODBC package from http://www.lemburg.com/files/python/
You'll find from this link all required information to play with databases
using the DBI 2.0 API and install/setup your platform/db engine specific
ODBC driver.

If no ODBC driver is available... sorry there's no direct python bridge to
Ingres II AFAIK.

Happy new year anyway!

<richard_d_papworth at my-deja.com> a ?crit dans le message news:
93kiqc$5k6$1 at nnrp1.deja.com...
> Does anyone have experience of accessing an Ingres II database using
python ?
> I haven't been able to find any references to ingres on the python site.
Any
> pointers in the right direction would be appreciated.
>
> Richard
>
>
> Sent via Deja.com
> http://www.deja.com/



From tim.one at home.com  Mon Jan  1 16:31:42 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2001 16:31:42 -0500
Subject: Recursion
In-Reply-To: <HBEJKOJGHBOIBHLHPMKGCECICFAA.rcalco@cortechs.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCKEDMIGAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Bob Calco]
> I noticed the following while dabbling in Perl, Ruby and Python
> recently.  Take your standard factorial implementation, a la:

You'll find that it's a lot faster to use iteration than recursion in these
languages.

> PYTHON
> ======
> import sys
>
> def factor(n):
>   if n == 1:
>     return 1

Change that to

      return 1L

and it will use unbounded ints instead.

>   else:
>     return n*factor(n-1)
>
> print factor(int(sys.argv[1]))
>
> fact.pl
> =======
> sub fact {
>   my($n) = shift;
>   if ($n eq 1) {
>     return 1;
>   } else {
>     return ($n * fact($n-1));
>   }
> }
> print fact($ARGV[0]), "\n";
>
> fact.rb
> =======
> def fact(n)
>   if n == 1
>     1
>   else
>     n*fact(n-1)
>   end
> end
> print fact(ARGV[0].to_i), "\n"
>
> The highest value for n you can run in Python is 12; after that
> you get overflow error messages.

ints, longs (unbounded integers), and floats are distinct types in Python.
The max size of an int depends on the platform, but on most machines it's a
32-bit signed integer (use sys.maxint to see what's true on your platform).
Stick "L" at the end of an int literal to make it an unbounded int instead,
or use the builtin long() function to convert to unbounded int.

> In Perl, the largest value is 170 (after which you get 1.#INF for
> an answer).

All numbers in Perl are cast to C doubles internally (in the absence of some
"use" directive trickery added to Perl5).  Perl doesn't support unbounded
integers natively (if you want them, you need to use a library module).

> In Ruby, you can input a value as high as 763 before you get a
> SystemStackError (stack level too deep) error.

The recursion limit in Python varies across platforms; I assume that's true
in Ruby too; in Python you can use sys.setrecursionlimit() to fiddle it (but
if you set it "too high", you risk having the interpreter blow up due to C
stack corruption).

> Couple questions:
>
> 1. Why the vast difference between the languages?

Why not <wink>?

> Is this apparent limitation in Python deliberate, or the
> consequence of some other design decision?

Python distinguishes between ints (native C "long") and longs (unbounded)
because ints are often used as arguments to C libraries.  If you want
unbounded ints, you have to "do something" to get them.  This distinction
made more sense 10 years ago when it was first made; it's gotten more clumsy
not because of factorials <wink>, but because systems are getting larger,
and systems that support files larger than 2Gb are becoming more common
(i.e., 32-bit signed ints no longer suffice for some common file
operations).  The distinction between ints and longs isn't as sharp as it
used to be:  every release, a few more pieces of the internals tolerate
either.  Over time, I expect the user-visible distinction will mostly
vanish.

> 2. In the real world, does this really matter? Does Ruby have any
> meaningful advantage over Python in this regard? (I understand I
> might get different replies if I asked this question on the Ruby
> email list. I have different questions for Ruby fans!)

If you need unbounded ints, Python and Ruby will both do fine, but Perl is a
distant third in that respect.

> I'm trying to decide which of these languages to embed in my
> application or at the very least require in the user environment. I
> like all of them, and I lean toward Python because it's much
> cleaner than Perl and more mature than Ruby and Mark Hammond's
> Win32 extenstion fully supports COM on Win32, which would make it
> a very useful framework for prototyping our COM objects and
> developing our own test suites to exercise them when they are
> implemented in C++. But I was surprised to find such a difference
> when testing each language's support for recursion.

Except you didn't test recursion:  you inadvertently tested limits on
integer sizes (or, in Perl's case, the overflow limit of IEEE-754 doubles).

most-people-should-never-use-numbers<wink>-ly y'rs  - tim




From heiland at ncsa.uiuc.edu  Fri Jan  5 13:24:52 2001
From: heiland at ncsa.uiuc.edu (Randy Heiland)
Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 12:24:52 -0600
Subject: JPython install problem
References: <3A55E1F9.60E033EF@ncsa.uiuc.edu>
Message-ID: <3A561174.5B066FA0@ncsa.uiuc.edu>

Never mind...  I just discovered Jython  (http://jython.sourceforge.net/)
instead of JPython (jpython.org).
I think this has/will solve my problem...

--Randy



From phys137 at mailcity.com  Wed Jan 10 21:11:11 2001
From: phys137 at mailcity.com (phys137 at mailcity.com)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 12:11:11 +1000
Subject: Coding Efficiency
References: <3A5B6586.50B51F68@gte.net>
Message-ID: <93j16q$k6n$1@mail.pl.unisys.com>

long time ago i even published something related to that. Then C++ was new
and the hope was that inlining [available in C++ but not in C] could change
that. Just for fun I took some programs - (not in C++) and did
semi-automatic inlining of leaves - some of them. the mean number of
instructions between jumps grew up 10 times(!). That was for the compiler.
For other programs (db, numerical) the numbers were above 5 times.

Looking at the same problem now I see the pipelining problem is unlikely to
get better - oo programming actively prevents you from inlining most of the
time. There may be some hope for functional languages - the higher the level
the better you can play with instructions (inlining, loop unrolling etc)


"Steve Williams" <sandj.williams at gte.net> wrote in message
news:3A5B6586.50B51F68 at gte.net...
> I saw this in an otherwise worthless thread on Slashdot about OOP:
>
>    Another reason ... (Score:5, Informative)
>            by taniwha on Tuesday January 09, @12:40PM EST (#54)
>            (User #70410 Info) http://www.taniwha.com/nospam.jpg
>            (for the record I first wrote smalltalk code in the 70's, I
> regularly code in C++ ...)
>
>            I'm a sometimes chip designer, sometimes programmer ... a
> while back while
>            working on an unnamed CPU project I did some low level
> performance analysis on
>            a number of well known programs (maybe even the browser
> you're using now)
>            basicly we were taking very long instruction/data traces and
> then modelling them
>            against various potential CPU pipeline/tlb/cache
> architectures - we were looking for
>            things that would help guide us to a better architecture for
> our CPU.
>
>            I found that quite early on I could figure out which language
> something was coded
>            in from the cooked numbers pretty easily - OO (ie C++) coded
> stuff always had a
>            really sucky CPI (clocks per instruction - a measure of
> architectural efficiency that
>            includes pipe breaks, stalls and cache misses) - I spent some
> time looking at this
>            (since it seemed that C++ code would probably become more
> common in our CPU's
>            lifetime) - basicly C++ code sucked because it took more
> icache hits (because the
>            coding style encourages lots of subroutine calls which tend
> to spread over the
>            cache more filling the I$ quickly) and it took more pipe
> breaks (also due to the
>            subrotine calls and returns - it turned out that some code
> generators did stuff that
>            broke CPU's return stack caches causing many more
> mispredicts) and finally virtual
>            method dispatches (basicly load a pointer, save the pc on the
> stack and jump to the
>            new pointer) tended to cause double pipe stalls that couldn't
> be predicted well at all
>            even though these weren't done much they were a real killer
> (if you've one a bit of
>            modern CPU architecture you learn that with long pipes you
> live or die on your
>            branch predictor's hit rate - these were very bad news)
>
>            In short C++ and more genrally OO result in code and coding
> styles that tend to
>            make code that makes modern CPU's run less efficiently.
>
>            Anyway - you often hear about 'efficiency of programmers' etc
> etc for OO - I
>            thought I'd add a data point from the other end of the
> spectrum.
>            [
>




From m.faassen at vet.uu.nl  Wed Jan 10 08:56:20 2001
From: m.faassen at vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen)
Date: 10 Jan 2001 13:56:20 GMT
Subject: Notice: Status of the PSU
Message-ID: <93hpm4$k1k$1@newshost.accu.uu.nl>

Dear fellow PSU members,

There has arisen some confusion about the continued existence the
PSU in the light of the PSA  (http://www.python.org/psa/) 'no longer
serving a real purpose'. Members of the PSU (Python Secret Underground)
have been asking whether this means the PSU has no purpose anymore
either. It does. The timbot (Roswell version) has instructed me to clarify
matters for our members on this mailing list.

Probability notices in the following update are as always subject to the
general unreliability principle. See also references listed at the
bottom.

Recent explorations with Guido's time machine have shown us that the
alien whitespace eating nanovirus invasion is still a real threat (0.9),
although engine troubles in the alien starship seem to have shifted the
projected invasion to the third decade of this millennium (0.7). Due to the
nature of their uncertainty inducer drive it is possible (0.05) however
that the invasion date is shifted forward to 2001. Therefore we
must remain vigilant (0.8).

The recent move of Guido & co to Digital Creations was coordinated by
the PSU [3] by replacing timbot (normal) temporarily with timbot (Roswell),
who then influenced matters appropriately. timbot (normal) has however
been placed back with memory buffers wiped, do NOT approach timbot (normal)
as this entity is not a member. Extra confusion is created by the 
fact that both timbots are posting; one is aware [1], the other isn't.
The original timbot has been reprogrammed to selectively ignore timbot
(Roswell).

The PSA will in due time be replaced with another cover organisation
when necessary. Recent advances with element Base_AQ (Zoperium)
technology are hopeful, though. We may be able to stop the nanoviruses.

Everything is still on track for the Roswell event [2], which is necessary
to close the timelike loop.

References in chronological order:

[1] http://www.deja.com/getdoc.xp?AN=518234374

[2] http://www.deja.com/getdoc.xp?AN=614140340

[3] http://www.deja.com/getdoc.xp?AN=687533933

Warning: Do NOT forward this message beyond the PSU mailing list! Those
who do will be eliminated from the timestream (0.97).

Anonymous-ly



From tim.one at home.com  Mon Jan  1 18:42:27 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2001 18:42:27 -0500
Subject: split hangs
In-Reply-To: <14C1lH-44b-00@mercurio.localdomain>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCMEEDIGAA.tim.one@home.com>

[davide at mercurio.localdomain]
> I tried the equivalent regexp in emacs
>   <\([^<>"]+\("[^"]*"\)?\)+>
> with bigger and bigger files and it does not seem to give an
> exponential behaviour.

Haven't tried it myself, but I can believe it.

> In everything I read regexp matching is given as a linear time
> problem in n + m (where n is the size of the testing string
> and m the size of the regular expression).

Then you had better start reading better stuff <wink>.  I'll repeat the
original recommendation:  Jeffrey [note: I erroneously said Jonathan before]
Friedl's excellent book "Mastering Regular Expressions" (O'Reilly).

There are two "obvious" ways to implement a regexp engine.  One extreme
Friedl calls "the NFA" way (although he's using "NFA" in a sense that
differs from its technical meaning in the literature).  It compiles the
regexp into a data structure in O(m) time, then uses a backtracking search
engine to do the actual match.  As Friedl explains in excruciating detail,
the matching process *can* take time exponential in n, depending on exactly
what's in the regexp, what's in the string, and how the backtracking engine
is written.  Different implementations use different tricks that save them
from exponential behavior in different cases.  Here's a simple Python
example:

    find = re.compile("(x+)+y$").match

That takes time exponential in n when applied to strings of the form

    "x" * n

I can't make time for it now, but perhaps someone else would like to explain
how that happens, step by step.

The other extreme Friedl calls "the DFA" way (and here his meaning does
match the technical literature).  The matching process there takes O(n) time
worst case.  The rubs are that the initial processing of the regexp may take
time exponential in m (converting an NFA to a DFA can cause exponential
explosion in the number of states), and that pure DFAs can't handle
backreferences.

No free lunch.  More sophisticated schemes try to get the best of both
worlds via a hybrid.  They can get very complex.  For example, study the
source for Henry Spencer's hybrid in recent Tcl:  if you can make sense out
of two lines of it, you're way ahead of the game <wink>.

Note that the literature talks about "real" regular expressions.
Backreferences change the game profoundly.  This page links to a proof that
the matching problem for Perl regexps (and so also Python's) is NP-complete:

    http://perl.plover.com/NPC/

That means it's almost certainly not possible to do better than exponential
time in all cases (in the presence of backreferences), no matter what
implementation is used.

Most languages implement NFA-flavor engines because backreferences are hard
to handle at all in a DFA framework; "compiling" to an NFA goes very fast;
NFA engines are generally pretty easy to extend and to optimize for common
special cases; for whatever reasons, in my experience most programmers find
NFA semantics (in Friedl's sense, not the technical one) easier to
understand; and there are only so many tens of thousands of lines of code
impelementers want to devote to stinking regexps <0.9 wink -- but Python
already has more code in its distribution devoted to regexps than to any
other identifiable subsystem>.

stick-to-simple-regexps-for-simple-purposes-or-live-with-the-
    consequences-ly y'rs  - tim




From jaapspies at home.nl  Sun Jan 28 12:57:00 2001
From: jaapspies at home.nl (Jaap Spies)
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 17:57:00 +0000
Subject: Hack request: rational numbers
References: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0101251759070.28148-100000@kev.ioc.ee> <951h34$tch$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <3A745D6C.2EEA931@home.nl>

chaoweilun at my-deja.com wrote:
> 
> > that uses similar syntax as in constructing Python complex numbers
> > (cf. 3j+4).
> 
> Sorry,BTW,could anyone tell me,why the letter "j" is used
> to represent complex numbers, but not "i"?
> 
> Sent via Deja.com
> http://www.deja.com/

You are a mathematician? Me too.
A lot of Python People are Mathematicians.
Nevertheless "j" will do!

My late professor Freudenthal said: "A good
mathematician is independent of notation"

Jaap Spies


From emile at fenx.com  Wed Jan 17 20:27:44 2001
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 17:27:44 -0800
Subject: Finding source from class or instance?
References: <979777210.145620@sj-nntpcache-5>
Message-ID: <945gse$c743k$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>

An instance has access to a __class__ attribute, and a class
to a module attribute, and sys.modules holds the file name
in which the class was defined.

srceClass = inst.__class__
srceModule = srceClass.__module__
sys.modules[srceModule].__file__

or in one step from an instance:

sys.modules[inst.__class__.__module__].__file__

That gets you to the file anyway.  If you're so inclined,
you can then open, read and extract the code for the class.

HTH,

--

Emile van Sebille
emile at fenx.com
-------------------


"Stuart Stanley" <stuarts at 171.69.180.197> wrote in message
news:979777210.145620 at sj-nntpcache-5...
>
>
> Folks,
>
> Is there a (easy!) way to get the source code from a class
or instance
> of a class?  A preference would lie in just getting the
source of the
> base class itself, but I would settle for getting the file
name where
> the base class lives in.  I figure the information is
sitting in the
> modules somewhere, but I don't know how to navigate there
to get it....
>
> Thanks!  --stuart
>
>
> --
>  "Computer Science is no more about computers than |
Stuart Stanley
>  astronomy is about telescopes." - E. W. Dijkstra  |
stuarts at cisco.com
>                                                    | Cisco
Systems, inc
>                                                    | St
Paul, MN
>                                                    |
612.578.6412




From grante at visi.com  Fri Jan 12 10:45:15 2001
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 15:45:15 GMT
Subject: Python and Industry
References: <20010111172342.10148.00000934@ng-ca1.aol.com>
Message-ID: <fEF76.974$kn.131663@ruti.visi.com>

In article <20010111172342.10148.00000934 at ng-ca1.aol.com>, Crutoy wrote:

>Hi , does anyone know how widly in an instries does python
being used ?

I use it in industry.

We ship with one of our products a small admin tool that's
written in Python.  I also use Python to write small test
programs that are used to drive/simulate some our products for
test purposes.  I've also used small Python scripts to automate
the process of building software assemblies from
sub-assemblies.

RedHat uses Python for some of their install/config utilities.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  The Osmonds! You are
                                  at               all Osmonds!! Throwing up
                               visi.com            on a freeway at dawn!!!


From moshez at zadka.site.co.il  Sat Jan  6 12:54:21 2001
From: moshez at zadka.site.co.il (Moshe Zadka)
Date: Sat,  6 Jan 2001 19:54:21 +0200 (IST)
Subject: How robust is Python ?
In-Reply-To: <9365p9$s2k$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
References: <9365p9$s2k$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, <9358nn$3c5$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, <9354f9$vbi$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, <LOBBJMHOIFOLFIPFANHJAEJFCHAA.zope@TheWebsons.com> <mailman.978716227.31692.python-list@python.org> <mailman.978721929.3640.python-list@python.org> <mailman.978748447.21713.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <20010106175421.DF584A828@darjeeling.zadka.site.co.il>

On Sat, 06 Jan 2001, rturpin at my-deja.com wrote:

> In theory, that's an application flaw, rather than a
> bug in the compiler or libraries. In practice, good
> software engineering produces C/C++ programs that
> very rarely dereference bad pointers. It's harder
> and more work than development with Python.

I have programmed in C/C++ and I know what I'm talking about. *Of course*
you can have long running processes in C/C++: take things like Linux,
which run for years with no problems. I'm just saying that making a C/C++
app which runs without problems is much harder, so I would be less inclined
to trust C in that role. Of course, other factors may decide the problem
for me, such as in...

> Keep in mind that Python *is* a C program.

I know that. It's one of the few C programs which are being debugged daily
by thousands of people around the world, with a very mature code base.
I doubt many companies can expect to achieve this level of robustness
for their apps.
-- 
Moshe Zadka <sig at zadka.site.co.il>
This is a signature anti-virus. 
Please stop the spread of signature viruses!



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Tue Jan 16 08:51:07 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 14:51:07 +0100
Subject: SQL-Statement with Python
References: <3A62E224.7AEE805E@students.uni-linz.ac.at> <93ut4q031hd@news1.newsguy.com> <R2M86.5299$J76.42003@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <941jnd0634@news1.newsguy.com>

"Steve Holden" <sholden at holdenweb.com> wrote in message
news:R2M86.5299$J76.42003 at e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com...
    [snip]
> > ActiveState distribution, but even if you started with the standard
> > distribution you probably want to add win32all anyway if you work
> > with Python under Windows... it has just too many nifty things!-).
> >
> I might take issue with this (despite my last run-in with the
martellibot...
> Perhaps I should just do this first [thwack, thwack, thwack]). There,
that's
> better.

You dispute that one probably wants to add win32all if one works
with Python under Windows...?!  *Eeeek*.  Let's see, where did I
put the tar and feathers...


> > rows = recordset.GetRows()
> > for first, last in zip(rows[0], rows[1]):
> >     print "%s, %s" % (last, first)
> >
> That's the bit I don't like.  You call the GetRows method, and what does
it
> return? Columns, mate, that's what. At least to the Python user. Not what
I
> call intuitive.

Yeah, I agree on this detail -- two-dimensional arrays are always a
bother to translate between languages which think the first index
varies fastest (Fortran, Visual Basic, ...) and those which think
it varies slowest (C/C++, Java, Python, ...).  GetRows was clearly
written by somebody thinking of a language of the first ilk:-).

Anyway, if that bothers you too much you get to choose among a
zillion other ways to ask a recordset for its contents, e.g....:

for row in recordset.GetString()[:-1].split('\r'):
    first, last = row.split('\t')
    print "%s, %s" % (last, first)

Or, simpler and faster, one can show off one's command of 'advanced'
SQL:-), and get the *db engine* to do one's work:

recordset, result = connection.Execute(
  "Select LastName//', '//FirstName From Employees Order By LastName")
print recordset.GetString().replace('\r','\n')


> I'm sure you'll have a great explanation for it, though.  Mark Hammond's
was
> pretty good.

Explanation for _what_ 'it'?  I must be confused...


Alex





From fredrik at effbot.org  Sun Jan 21 12:04:03 2001
From: fredrik at effbot.org (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 17:04:03 GMT
Subject: Static members?
References: <94f3rf$m6j$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <7EEa6.8086$AH6.1279039@newsc.telia.net>

fray_fernando at my-deja.com wrote:
> How do you define a class that has an attribute common to all instances
> of this class? Something like the static members in C++

    http://www.python.org/doc/FAQ.html#4.84
    "How do I create static class data and static class
    methods?"

    class C:
        count = 0   # number of times C.__init__ called

        def __init__(self):
            C.count = C.count + 1

        def getcount(self):
            return C.count  # or return self.count

Cheers /F







From phd at phd.pp.ru  Tue Jan 23 07:32:27 2001
From: phd at phd.pp.ru (Oleg Broytmann)
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 15:32:27 +0300 (MSK)
Subject: Determining Content-Type
In-Reply-To: <3A6D769F.E6F7A32F@qbcon.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0101231530580.9765-100000@fep132.fep.ru>

On Tue, 23 Jan 2001, Andreas Pauley wrote:
> I would like to know if there is a way for me to determine the HTTP
> Content-Type header of a file residing on disk.

   You cannot determine - you can only guess. For good guess, use
mimetypes.py from standard library.

Oleg.
----
     Oleg Broytmann            http://phd.pp.ru/            phd at phd.pp.ru
           Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN.




From paul at digicool.com  Sat Jan 13 10:37:22 2001
From: paul at digicool.com (Paul Everitt)
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 10:37:22 -0500
Subject: zodb & multiple processes
References: <kuhf36hotz.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi> <Yk976.1119$mX.27921@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <B685E062.4654%paul@digicool.com>

Just to add a point on Kapil's info.  ZEO is certainly more heavyweight on
reads and writes when it doesn't have the data locally.  However, ZEO has
two levels of cache on the individual processes (in-memory and on disk), and
transactions committed in another process send cache invalidation messages
to other clients.

For some types of applications (such as web apps), this approach works.
There are many times more reads than writes for most web apps, and usually a
minority of the objects are used a majority of the time.  For other types of
apps this approach can incur the network and pickling overhead.

With the move to BSDDB3 as the preferred storage for future ZODB work, this
might open up some opportunities for multiprocess access.

--Paul

On 1/10/01 10:00 PM, in article
Yk976.1119$mX.27921 at newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net, "Kapil Thangavelu"
<kthangavelu at earthlink.net> wrote:

> yes the zodb is thread safe (zope is multithreaded). it actually makes
> programming
> multithreaded programs a bit easier as objects which inherit from the
> persistent classes
> become thread safe (although it assumes a bit optimism regarding the rate of
> object changes,
> the optimism won't corrupt your data but its something to be aware of).
> 
> as long as your're objects are not changing frequently its a pretty good way
> to avoid lots of
> concurrency control around your objects.
> 
> currently the zodb assumes a process lock on a particular zodb storage. if
> you want to run it with
> multiple processes you can use ZEO, which is a bit heavyweight if you want
> your app to run on
> one machine as it communicates over tcp/ip.
> 
> for more info check out jim fulton's IPC 8 paper on zope.org and amk's
> starship homepage.
> 
> kapil
> 
> 
> Erno Kuusela <erno-news at erno.iki.fi> wrote in message
> news:kuhf36hotz.fsf at lasipalatsi.fi...
>> hello,
>> 
>> from the looks of things, zodb is thread-safe in that you can use
>> connections to the same storage from many threads at once and
>> have it not break.
>> 
>> how about multiple processes? will it just work, just not work,
>> or require special incantations?
>> 
>>   -- erno
> 
> 



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Jan 12 05:12:12 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 11:12:12 +0100
Subject: new enum idiom
References: <G6qzLy.6Fo@world.std.com> <938jmh$919$1@animus.fel.iae.nl> <3A58B9C0.9F2A5CC0@collins.rockwell.com> <93an8v02d2n@news1.newsguy.com> <93dde1$8d2$1@animus.fel.iae.nl> <93f3nb023mv@news1.newsguy.com> <90259DC4Arcamesz@127.0.0.1> <93i57b01qms@news2.newsguy.com> <90268BCE3rcamesz@127.0.0.1> <93kb0m0r3s@news1.newsguy.com> <90273B4rcamesz@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <93mlct0gse@news1.newsguy.com>

"Robert Amesz" <rcameszREMOVETHIS at dds.removethistoo.nl> wrote in message
news:90273B4rcamesz at 127.0.0.1...
    [snip]
> >    xx = enum('foo=%s'%base1, 'foo2', 'foo3', 'bar=%d'%base2, 'etc')
> >
> >here, base1 is accepted whatever type it is (as long as it's able
> >to produce a string-form:-), but base2 is requested to be able to
> >produce an integer specifically.
>
> Hmm I see a problem here: doesn't the %-operator take a tuple on the
> right hand side, or has that changed in 2.0? In 1.52 it should be:
>
>     xx = enum('foo=%s'%(base1,), 'foo2', 'foo3', 'bar=%d'%(base2,),
>               'etc')
>
> That doesn't make it any prettier.

Python 1.5.2 (#1, Sep 17 1999, 20:15:36)  [GCC egcs-2.91.66 19990314/Linux
(egcs
- on linux-i386
Copyright 1991-1995 Stichting Mathematisch Centrum, Amsterdam
>>> print "foo%dbar" % 23
foo23bar
>>>


> As both forms seem equally capable to get the job done, and I can't see
> the one method being significantly more efficient that the other, in
> the end it would an argument over aesthetics.
>
> Aesthetic argument 1: I don't like data making an unneccesary roundtrip
> into a different domain. When using 's=n' numeric data (n) has to be
> expressed as a string.
>
> Aesthetic argument 2: The form 's=n' is in fact a tuple coded as a
> string, so why not get rid of the coding and make it explicit?  After
> all, one of Pythons design paradigms would to be: "explicit is better
> than implicit".

Two good points (which really boil down to one).  Counterpoints
would include "it's nicer to have all strings than some strings
and some tuples", and "other languages allowing such explicit
specs [C/C++ only, AFAIK] use the name=value syntax, so that will
be easier to read for people coming from those languages".  But
I'm just arguing for argument's sake -- it's an obscure corner
of an obscure idiom, and both usages look pretty much OK to me
for something likely to see frequencies as low as this.


> Oddly enough, the thing which attracted me to Python was the C-meets-
> Lisp quality of its syntax. Both C and Lisp are - in my opnion - among
> the purest and most minimalist types of languages. Python seems to be
> able to combine the two extreme paradigms into an effective, yet clean
> language.

Nolo contendere -- and I'd add that C and Lisp seem to me to have
(opposite) serious syntax flaws, making their underlying semantic
simplicity harder to grasp/appreciate for some, while Python's
syntax is SO clean and neat.


Alex





From jwbnews at scandaroon.com  Sat Jan 27 21:22:16 2001
From: jwbnews at scandaroon.com (John W. Baxter)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 18:22:16 -0800
Subject: . Python 2.1 function attributes
References: <mailman.980593892.725.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <jwbnews-9FDC60.18221627012001@news.olympus.net>

In article <mailman.980593892.725.python-list at python.org>, "Tim Peters" 
<tim.one at home.com> wrote:

> Barry also added code to Python 2.1 to let you write, e.g.,
> 
>     def f() >> x:
>         x = 1
>         y = 2
> 
> as a short way to spell "whatever the value of x is at the end of the
> function, return that".  I'm sure you'll agree that's much cleaner than 
> the
> clumsy
> 
>     def f():
>         x = 1
>         y = 2
>         return x
> 
> people suffer with today.
> 
> hoping-a-truly-bad-idea-adds-some-perspective<wink>-ly y'rs  - tim

Hmmm...seems to be a kin to an early boss' idea (ca 1965-1969) that the
   comefrom
and various conditional forms of comefrom could replace the
   goto
and various conditional goto forms.  Marty went to a fair amount to 
trouble to prove to himself that the idea worked (but without any 
intention of actually building it, so far as I know.).

  --John

-- 
John W. Baxter   Port Ludlow, WA USA  jwbnews at scandaroon.com


From joejava at dragonat.net  Tue Jan  9 12:47:28 2001
From: joejava at dragonat.net (Joel Ricker)
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 12:47:28 -0500
Subject: Migrating to perl?
References: <mailman.978665345.25536.python-list@python.org> <93f5ko$o4e$1@saltmine.radix.net>
Message-ID: <ieI66.1537$_e7.103147@news2.atl>

Cary O'Brien wrote in message <93f5ko$o4e$1 at saltmine.radix.net>...

[*snip*]

>Did I make any mistakes?

>-- cary

Not that I can see.  Thats exactly what I'm seeing.  I'm quite happy with
the number of modules available for Python.  I just finished reading the
tutorial and found Python to be quite easy and I'm definitely going to be
sticking with it.  I'll just have to write a few modules of my own to fill
in the gaps :)

>[1] Check out PostgreSQL before you decide on MySQL.  A python
>    interface comes with it.


I've heard good things about PostgreSQL but since my web hosting package
comes with MySql, thats what I've been learning.

Joel

--
I have been Perl-Free for 4 Days, 14 Hours, 57 Minutes, and 55 Seconds.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Joel Ricker   joejava at dragoncat.net
  Just Another Python Hacker




From jp at NOSPAMdemonseed.net  Mon Jan 15 17:56:55 2001
From: jp at NOSPAMdemonseed.net (jason petrone)
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 22:56:55 +0000
Subject: python compiled to native in less than a year?
References: <mailman.979575676.22737.python-list@python.org> <GqH86.6041$J%.605518@news.flash.net> <G9K86.60439$eB2.5067059@news.infostrada.it>
Message-ID: <n7vv39.r1f.ln@demonseed.net>

Giuseppe Bilotta <oblomov at freemail.it> wrote:

> Knowing M$, at least one of the following will hold :

> 1) M$ will not cleanly document IL, making it almost impossible to know it
> appor priately;

Actually, the IL documentation is pretty good.  Assuming the MS implementation
of it follows the specification, this won't be a problem.

> 2) M$ will patent IL, so royalties will have to be paid for its use (aka:
> bye-by e, Free Software)

Right now MS is trying(along with HP) to get IL accepted by a standards
commitee, though I forget which one.  If this happens, there won't be a patent
problem.  However, MS also tried to put ASF on the standards track, but gave
up and went the patent route instead, so who knows.

-jason


From prestonlanders at my-deja.com  Wed Jan 10 17:21:31 2001
From: prestonlanders at my-deja.com (Preston Landers)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 22:21:31 GMT
Subject: why is this namespace weirdness happening?
References: <93i3f7$122$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <93i7cg$55i$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <93in8v$ku9$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

In article <93i7cg$55i$1 at nnrp1.deja.com>,
  chris_barker at my-deja.com wrote:

> And yes, this does take some getting used to, but it does follow some
> pretty simple logic, once you get python's "everything is a reference"
> and "mutable types" concepts.

Thank you and Frederick for the cogent, helpful explanations.

Preston


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From quinn at groat.ugcs.caltech.edu  Tue Jan 30 03:30:34 2001
From: quinn at groat.ugcs.caltech.edu (Quinn Dunkan)
Date: 30 Jan 2001 08:30:34 GMT
Subject: xor operator?
References: <mailman.980769755.13612.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrn97cuta.eti.quinn@groat.ugcs.caltech.edu>

On Mon, 29 Jan 2001 13:02:30 +0100, jurgen.defurne at philips.com
<jurgen.defurne at philips.com> wrote:
>I have indeed never met a language which had a boolean XOR (but some
>have a binary XOR).

if true xor false then
   std_output.put_string("eiffel does!%N");
end; -- and we can't use the std abbreviations, either, Just Because!

Not that I've ever actually used it or anything.  We only need one kind of
loop, because that's "minimal", but hey, pile on the random boolean operators!

:)


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Thu Jan 25 06:05:37 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 12:05:37 +0100
Subject: The fundamentals...
References: <F8Jb6.30683$pp2.2619941@news3.cableinet.net>
Message-ID: <94p1a301vv2@news2.newsguy.com>

"Mike Read" <mread at cableinet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:F8Jb6.30683$pp2.2619941 at news3.cableinet.net...
> Newbie first script alert!  No problem - it does what I intended (which
> probably says more about Python than me...), but I just wanted to start
> off on the right foot - is it as elegant as it could be?  If it's not
blindingly
> obvious, I was separating fields around a period delimiter.

Not bad!  It IS simple.  It can be changed in various
ways, but it's debatable whether this increases 'elegance'.

You can use string objects' built-in methods instead of
the string module (if you don't have Python 2 yet, get
it -- don't suffer with the limitations of 1.5.2....!-).
You can use normal / slashes rather than repeated backwards
\\ ones.  You need not provide the explicit 'r' when you
are opening a file for reading.  And you need not name
all intermediate values.  So, specifically:

> import string
> test = open('\\Windows\\Desktop\\test.txt', 'r')
> boo = test.read()
> boo = string.split(boo , ". ")
> boo = string.join(boo , "\n")
>
> outfile = open('\\Windows\\Desktop\\out.txt', 'w')
> outfile.write(boo)
> outfile.close()

can become, for example:

data = open('/Windows/Desktop/test.txt').read()
data = '\n'.join(data.split('. '))
open('/Windows/Desktop/out.txt','w').write(data)

or various other combinations yet of named and
unnamed temporary results -- all the way down to
one *rather goofy* single expression:

open('/Windows/Desktop/out.txt','w').write(
    '\n'.join(open('/Windows/Desktop/test.txt')
        .read().split('. '))))

but of course that would be VERY inelegant,
not very readable, fragile, and complicated
to no good purpose!

Deciding what to split out and how to name it,
and what to keep 'joined', is a matter of taste
and style.  Splitting out 'outfile' for example
has the advantage of allowing an explicit close,
not strictly necessary today in CPython but
still a GOOD idea (explicit is better than
implicit).  But one can also end up splitting
things a little bit too much -- particularly when
the names for the intermediate results are not
well chosen (and 'boo' isn't:-), this adds no
real clarity in my personal (& humble) opinion.

"Moderation in all things" is one viable guideline
on such issues of taste and style, I think.


Alex





From amk at mira.erols.com  Mon Jan 15 23:21:34 2001
From: amk at mira.erols.com (A.M. Kuchling)
Date: 16 Jan 2001 04:21:34 GMT
Subject: re findall mod for issue of side effects
References: <mailman.979546103.2078.python-list@python.org> <t65u2uhfr0qgfb@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <slrn967jsb.bil.amk@207-172-111-91.s91.tnt1.ann.va.dialup.rcn.com>

On Mon, 15 Jan 2001 08:11:43 -0500, 
	Andrew Henshaw <andrew_dot_henshaw_at_earthling_dot_net> wrote:
>As to your suggestion (a new flag on regexp compilation meaning "all my
>parens are non-capturing"), I'd still like to retain the ability to use the
>non-capturing flag to exclude portions from the return string.  This may be

This problem is because .findall() only returns the string
corresponding to all of a match.  Someone else has suggested a
.findall() variant which returned the actual match objects, so then
you could loop over them all and construct whatever string you like.
It seems potentially cleaner to invent a name or interface for such a
variant and get it accepted.  (Hurry!  Maybe it can still get into
2.1!)

--amk


From LCKJAM003 at mail.uct.ac.za  Thu Jan 18 17:44:19 2001
From: LCKJAM003 at mail.uct.ac.za (James Lockley)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 00:44:19 +0200
Subject: Using python to call .bat files-- thanx
References: <3A676D38.5D972E12@mail.uct.ac.za>
Message-ID: <3A6771C3.B4372013@mail.uct.ac.za>

Nils, Frederik,  thank you  for the help

will try that in the morning
Cheers !
james



From nickb at earth.ox.ac.uk  Fri Jan 19 05:42:59 2001
From: nickb at earth.ox.ac.uk (Nick Belshaw)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 10:42:59 +0000
Subject: Literate programming in Python
References: <MIo96.76568$eB2.6160368@news.infostrada.it>
Message-ID: <3A681A33.C49C1920@earth.ox.ac.uk>

Giuseppe Bilotta wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I'd like to know if there exist a "literate programming" language for Python (possibly using the same structure/conventions of
> WEB/CWEB, the first literate programming languages, developed by D.E.Knuth and Silvio Levy, resp. for Pascal and C/C++).
>

I have used Interscript -mentioned by others - for a number of years quite usefully - not sure of the CWEB syntax but I think its
similar.

I found that a bit clumsy so wrote a WYSIWYG editor for it using Python/Tkinter - rough but easy.

- it certainly works. Maybe a bit slow for big projects but it sure maintains readability!!

cheers
Nick/Oxford




From cfelling at iae.nl  Sat Jan 20 17:47:16 2001
From: cfelling at iae.nl (Carel Fellinger)
Date: 20 Jan 2001 23:47:16 +0100
Subject: Translating a Perl script into Python
References: <vo9i6t04nhurgv2avmgoss4mg86ofcuhtv@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <94d4hk$1sq$1@animus.fel.iae.nl>

My ISP is having problems with its feed so I'm a little late to react
and there is only one little thing for me left to nitpick:(

Sheila King <sheila at thinkspot.net> wrote:

for this piece of code

>   print PROC "$key = $ENV{$key}\n";

you used

> 	PROC.write(key + " = " + os.environ[key] + "\n")

whereas I often prefer (the (to me atleast) more Pythonic)

        PROC.write("%s = %s\n" % (key,os.environ[key])

and yet in some circumstances even the more elaborate variant

        PROC.write("%(key)s = %(value)s\n" % {key:key, val:os.environ[key]})

The latter form comes very close to the Perl way of coding, and
is espescially suited for format strings spanning several lines.
-- 
groetjes, carel


From spamers at must.die  Sat Jan 27 13:10:07 2001
From: spamers at must.die (Fernando Rodríguez)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 19:10:07 +0100
Subject: Avoiding the __repr__ call or protecting an instance from evaluation  URG. please
Message-ID: <db367t8ed4ktadbdmf71lgk1t8h3p3i4lk@4ax.com>

Hi!

	I have a class whose __repr__ method returns a string. Whenever I pass
an instance of this class to a function, what the function gets is the result
of __repr__. Most of the time this is OK, but under certain circumstances I
also need to make sure that a function receives an instance of the class, and
the the string that __repr__ returns.

	How can I do this? O:-)

PS This is my __repr__ method:
def __repr__( self ):
        return ",v" + str(self.tag) +", "




//-----------------------------------------------
//	Fernando Rodriguez Romero
//
//	frr at mindless dot com
//------------------------------------------------


From sdm7g at virginia.edu  Tue Jan 23 12:55:24 2001
From: sdm7g at virginia.edu (Steven D. Majewski)
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 12:55:24 -0500 (EST)
Subject: OT: SourceForge problems [was: libraries=['m'] in config.py [Re:
 Python 2.1 alpha 1 ... ]]
In-Reply-To: <Pine.NXT.4.21.0101231204010.227-100000@localhost.virginia.edu>
Message-ID: <Pine.NXT.4.21.0101231243380.227-100000@localhost.virginia.edu>


Please excuse the OT: I don't see any point in adding another unanswered
me-to complaint to the dozens already on SourceForge. Since there's a lot
of SourceForge users on this list maybe somebody knows what's up: 

SourceForge seems to be pretty effectively broken for "new" projects 
("new" =  those registered in the last month or two. )

There are dozens of queries on the SF discussion forums from people
having the same problems -- can't log in with ssh or cvs using ssh.
Other than a few well meaning "try this" responses that don't help,
and a status report that says that there is "some delay" with new 
projects, there's not much response to any of those problems. 

Does anyone know what going on at SourceForge ? 


( I've been unable to update the Python<->objective-c bridge. ) 

-- Steve Majewski <sdm7g at Virginia.EDU> 






From joejava at dragonat.net  Sat Jan  6 18:33:22 2001
From: joejava at dragonat.net (Joel Ricker)
Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2001 18:33:22 -0500
Subject: Migrating to perl?
References: <3Fa56.4580$of7.216286@news1.atl> <933fa1$j2i$1@newshost.accu.uu.nl> <ggd56.4652$of7.222552@news1.atl> <3a57342f.92981493@nntp.sprynet.com>
Message-ID: <xZN56.2372$4Z.127043@news2.atl>

David C. Ullrich wrote in message <3a57342f.92981493 at nntp.sprynet.com>...

[..]

>You should do what Tim said: Download it and work through the
>tutorial. Really will take less time than reading this thread.


Thats true.  I've spent more time keeping up with this thread than reading
the tutorial.  Thats why I've only gotten up to Chapter 5 :)

>The docs are excellent. But they omit a few important
>principles. Like "always believe Tim".


So far I've had no reason to doubt him.

Joel
'




From m.hadfield at niwa.cri.nz  Thu Jan 25 15:52:30 2001
From: m.hadfield at niwa.cri.nz (Mark Hadfield)
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 09:52:30 +1300
Subject: 4NT and Python
References: <n46o49.p5k.ln@mail>
Message-ID: <980455950.371212@clam-ext>

"Ben Catanzariti" <fakeaddress at nospammail.com> wrote in message
news:n46o49.p5k.ln at mail...
> Does anyone here use 4NT (or any of JPSoft's win32 shell scripting
> products)?

I did for several years, but these days I mostly use the Cygwin bash shell

> Is there away to pass information dynamically/piping
> between the Python and 4NT and vice versa?

Well, you can use the input/output redirection facilities of the 4NT shell
(or the Unix shells or the Windows cmd.exe and command.com shells) to send
data to & from a Python process. For Python to participate, the script needs
to read data from sys.stdin and write it to sys.stdout & sys.stderr.

Is this what you mean? If so, and you want examples or more info, please
contact me.

> PS Outputting data toa text file is not dynamic ;)

No text files are involved in the above process.

---
Mark Hadfield
m.hadfield at niwa.cri.nz  http://katipo.niwa.cri.nz/~hadfield/
National Institute for Water and Atmospheric Research
PO Box 14-901, Wellington, New Zealand








From grey at despair.rpglink.com  Thu Jan 18 17:31:11 2001
From: grey at despair.rpglink.com (Steve Lamb)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 22:31:11 -0000
Subject: Why no isexec, isread, iswrite, etc (was: I must be missing something obvious: os.path.isexecutable?)
References: <slrn96enju.g1v.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <slrn96ep7c.g1v.grey@teleute.rpglink.com>
Message-ID: <slrn96erlf.h11.grey@teleute.rpglink.com>

On Thu, 18 Jan 2001 21:49:32 -0000, Steve Lamb <grey at despair.rpglink.com>
wrote:
>    OK, after further digging on deja I found a thread between Fredrik Lundh
>and Lenny Self regarding using the os.stat() call with the stat macros.  Is
>there an easier way?

    OK, pardon the stream of thought thread here, but I have found my answer
to the Python equivalent of the Perl -x check.  Now for a fun question.  I see
that os.path has isdir, isfile, islink defined.  In fact my initial confusion
is that os.path didn't have isread, iswrite, isexec.  It seemed logical.

    then I foudn the above mentioned conversation with the macros from stat
coming into play.  So I dug into os.path.py, bounced into posixpath.py, and
see that isdir, isfile and islink use the stat macros.  So why not complete
the suite of tests possible from the stat macros and have read/write/exec
tests in there as well?

-- 
         Steve C. Lamb         | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your
         ICQ: 5107343          | main connection to the switchboard of souls.
-------------------------------+---------------------------------------------


From codebert9 at users.sourceforge.net  Tue Jan  2 01:55:04 2001
From: codebert9 at users.sourceforge.net (Jeffrey Drake)
Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2001 06:55:04 GMT
Subject: Python Imaging Library and Windows HELP!
Message-ID: <cXe46.16108$n%.820749@news20.bellglobal.com>

I just downloaded and installed the Python  Imaging Libary for windows, and
it basically has a set of py files, a dll. There is absolutely no
documentation of what to do with this stuff.

I added the directory to the pythonpath environment variable, copied the
.dll to the /windows/system dir and then when running a program that uses
it -

----------
C:\Python20\OpenGL\nehe>python lesson6.py
Hit ESC key to quit.
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "lesson6.py", line 225, in ?
    main()
  File "lesson6.py", line 218, in main
    InitGL(640, 480)
  File "lesson6.py", line 77, in InitGL
    LoadTextures()
  File "lesson6.py", line 58, in LoadTextures
    image = image.tostring("raw", "RGBX", 0, -1)
  File "c:\python20\py152\pil\Image.py", line 325, in tostring
    self.load()
  File "c:\python20\py152\pil\ImageFile.py", line 125, in load
    self.load_prepare()
  File "c:\python20\py152\pil\ImageFile.py", line 175, in load_prepare
    self.im = Image.core.new(self.mode, self.size)
  File "c:\python20\py152\pil\Image.py", line 40, in __getattr__
    raise ImportError, "The _imaging C module is not installed"
ImportError: The _imaging C module is not installed

C:\Python20\OpenGL\nehe>

-------
Nobody in EFnet/irc.openprojects.net:#python seem to be able to help with
this. Most of them are on linux, though.

If anyone can help me with this I would really appreciate it.

Regards,
Jeffrey Drake
feel free to email me




From mwh21 at cam.ac.uk  Mon Jan 15 05:31:34 2001
From: mwh21 at cam.ac.uk (Michael Hudson)
Date: 15 Jan 2001 10:31:34 +0000
Subject: names
References: <pls86.100769$f36.4497959@news20.bellglobal.com>
Message-ID: <m3itnh3y49.fsf@atrus.jesus.cam.ac.uk>

"Elliott Chapin" <echapin at sympatico.ca> writes:

> How can I get the name of an object as a string? As a biginner I might
> imagine something like
> 
> >>>b=[[1],[2]]
> >>>name(b)
> 'b'

>From http://www.amk.ca/quotations/python-quotes.html:

   The same way as you get the name of that cat you found on your
   porch: the cat (object) itself cannot tell you its name, and it
   doesn't really care -- so the only way to find out what it's called
   is to ask all your neighbours (namespaces) if it's their cat
   (object)...

   ....and don't be surprised if you'll find that it's known by many
   names, or no name at all!
                                          Fredrik Lundh, 3 Nov 2000

one of many quotes that should really be memorised by everyone
associated with Python....

Cheers,
M.

-- 
  And then the character-only displays went away (leading to
  increasingly silly graphical effects and finally to ads on 
  web pages).                      -- John W. Baxter, comp.lang.python


From grante at visi.com  Wed Jan  3 09:58:28 2001
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 3 Jan 2001 08:58:28 -0600
Subject: Dr. Dobb's Python-URL! - weekly Python news and links (Jan  3)
Message-ID: <902807ECF2329498.C74C97895AF7B06F.E6FC5F2787487C35@lp.airnews.net>

    Niklas Frykholm announces preliminary work on the consequential
    problem of practical HTML (and SGML) parsing
	http://x56.deja.com/[ST_rn=ps]/getdoc.xp?AN=711302528

    Alex Martelli makes MediaPlayer comprehensible
	http://x73.deja.com/[ST_rn=ps]/getdoc.xp?AN=711305977
    exemplifies htmllib use
	http://x66.deja.com/[ST_rn=ps]/getdoc.xp?AN=711130173
    comments on use of classes and OOP 
        http://deja.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=708325609
    and announces gmpy 0.8 release for those in need of fast,
    high-precision arithmetic) 
        http://deja.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=709390524

    Raja S illuminates the history of exceptions pertinent
    to Python (those playing along at home should notice one
    follow-up corrects an out-of-place parenthesis)
        http://x56.deja.com/[ST_rn=ps]/getdoc.xp?AN=707412222
 
    Tim Peters demonstrates how he thinks about regular expressions
	http://x53.deja.com/[ST_rn=ps]/getdoc.xp?AN=711103603

    fgleeson reports on early experience with the Komodo preview
	http://x65.deja.com/[ST_rn=ps]/getdoc.xp?AN=710978812

    Jeff Epler places an 'xreadlines' patch on Sourceforge:
    xreadlines, inspired by xrange, permits a simple 'for' loop
    to iterate over the contents of a file "lazily", without
    reading the entire file at once.
        http://deja.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=706611199

    Amy Katherine announces the Ninth International Python
    Conference.
        http://deja.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=707166306

    Per Kraulis announces crng 1.1: Random-number generator
    extension types (minor upgrade) 
        http://deja.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=707664094

    Dave Cole announces Sybase module 0.11 (Sam Rushing release)
    released
        http://deja.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=707968946

    Bob Alexander starts an extensive thread on ideas for Python
    2.1 [though it's too late for 2.1, maybe for 2.2? -- ed]
        http://deja.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=708072070

    Final Call For Papers 2nd International Conference on eXtreme
    Programming and Flexible Processes in Software Engineering -
    XP2001.
        http://deja.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=708580378

    Russell Turpin posts ideas about caching name lookups.
        http://deja.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=708902425

    Pointers on sniffing HTTP traffic using proxies
        http://deja.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=710137006

    Jerry Spicklemire responds to a question about Python vs. PHP
    by noting several packages that "will allow you to do
    "PHP/ASP-ish" things with Python". 
        http://deja.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=709032569
    and "echuck" provides a pointer to webware: another PHP-like
    package 
        http://deja.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=709162756

    Raymond Hettinger starts another enhancement discussions with
    a new year's wish-list for Python
        http://deja.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=709868180


========================================================================

Everything you want is probably one or two clicks away in these pages:

      Python.org's Python Language Website is the traditional
      center of Pythonia
          http://www.python.org

      PythonWare complements the digest you're reading with the
      daily python url
           http://www.pythonware.com/daily  

      comp.lang.python.announce announces new Python software.  Be
      sure to scan this newly-revitalized newsgroup at least weekly.
          http://deja.com/group/comp.lang.python.announce

      Andrew Kuchling writes marvelous summaries twice a month of
      the action on the python-dev mailing list, where the future
      of Python is truly determined
	  http://www.amk.ca/python/dev

      The Vaults of Parnassus ambitiously collects Python resources
          http://www.vex.net/~x/parnassus/   

      Much of Python's real work takes place on Special-Interest Group
      mailing lists
          http://www.python.org/sigs/

      Python Consortium emerges as an independent nexus of activity
          http://www.python.org/consortium

      Cetus does much of the same
          http://www.cetus-links.de/oo_python.html

      Python FAQTS
          http://python.faqts.com/

      Python To-Do List anticipates some of Python's future direction
          http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/todo.py

      Python Journal is at work on its second issue
          http://www.pythonjournal.com

      Links2Go is a new semi-automated link collection; it's impressive
      what AI can generate
          http://www.links2go.com/search?search=python

      Archive probing trick of the trade:
          http://www.dejanews.com/dnquery.xp?QRY=&DBS=2&ST=PS&defaultOp=AND&LNG=ALL&format=threaded&showsort=date&maxhits=100&groups=comp.lang.python


Previous - (U)se the (R)esource, (L)uke! - messages are listed here:
  http://purl.org/thecliff/python/url.html
or
  http://www.dejanews.com/dnquery.xp?QRY=~g%20comp.lang.python%20Python-URL%21


Suggestions/corrections for next week's posting are always welcome.
[http://www.egroups.com/list/python-url-leads/ is hibernating.  Just
e-mail us ideas directly.]

To receive a new issue of this posting in e-mail each Monday morning,
ask <claird at neosoft.com> to subscribe.  Mention "Python-URL!".


-- The Python-URL! Team--

Dr. Dobb's Journal (http://www.ddj.com) is pleased to participate in and
sponsor the "Python-URL!" project.
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at NeoSoft.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://starbase.neosoft.com/~claird/home.html


From amk at mira.erols.com  Sat Jan 27 13:17:46 2001
From: amk at mira.erols.com (A.M. Kuchling)
Date: 27 Jan 2001 18:17:46 GMT
Subject: Interested in a Crypto-SIG?
References: <3A72C8A3.C4B4D69A@stroeder.com>
Message-ID: <slrn97650f.i1.amk@mira.erols.com>

On Sat, 27 Jan 2001 14:09:55 +0100, 
	Michael Str?der <michael at stroeder.com> wrote:
>I would like to propose a Crypto-SIG. The goal is to define Pythonic
>class APIs for various cryptographic and related standards to enable
>developers to use a unified API for implementing crypto-enabled
>applications in Python independent of the underlying implementations
>(basically inspired by Sun's Java crypto-related APIs).

Are you the same person who proposed this yesterday on the Meta-SIG?
Anyway, I'll give you the same answer: a unified API would be an
excellent idea, but a SIG seems unnecessary.  There's already a
python-crypto list at egroups which could be used to coordinate work
on such a unified API (it's the second link for a Google search on
"python crypto"), and the main issue is probably developer time.

--amk


From bernhard at abnoba.intevation.de  Tue Jan  2 07:27:34 2001
From: bernhard at abnoba.intevation.de (Bernhard Reiter)
Date: 2 Jan 2001 12:27:34 GMT
Subject: fcgi.py
References: <3a4a865c.1325844015@localhost> <3a4a90ab.1328483109@localhost>
    <92f20t$re4$4@newsserver.rrzn.uni-hannover.de>
    <3a4c1e99.60463812@newnews.prodigy.net>
Message-ID: <92shfm$6c4$1@newsserver.rrzn.uni-hannover.de>

In article <3a4c1e99.60463812 at newnews.prodigy.net>,
	victor at prodigy.net (Victor Muslin) writes:
> Well, my most important need was not to have to open database
> connections every time CGI executed. 

Well you can do this with mod_python, too of course. :)

> Currently I don't need
> multiple instances of the script running simultaneously. If and
> when I do, I plan to add multithreading to my FastCGI library (I
> actually believe it had already been done).

Yes, there is a mutlithreading thing out there somewere.
http://www.suxers.de/python/fcgi.htm

But implementing this again, when you already have load balancing
available with mod_fcgi in apache seems to be waste somehow.

> I got it running so far with cgi-fcgi.exe bridge. Though it has to
> fork/exec cgi-fcgi program every time, it is still an order of
> magnitude faster than opening ODBC connection. To get it running
> on NT, I modified (very slightly) Robin Dunn's fcgi.py and built
> fcgi2.py on top of it that uses a socket instead of a named pipe.
> You can get my modules at
> http://pages.prodigy.net/victor/fcgi2_py. Please report any bugs
> to me (and perhaps how to fix them since I am still rather new to
> Python).

Nice, thanks.
I will not have time to test it in the next week, though.

> I am yet to attempt to use mod_fcgi (I am new to Apache as well).
> This is my next step once I figure out how to configure Apache on
> WinNT for it (any help is appreciated :-). Once I get this working
> I plan to try either mod_python or mod_snake (any help for
> configuring Apache with those is appreciated as well :).

It should be straigt forward and I have to admit that I never used
mod_snake yet.

	Bernhard
-- 
Professional Service around Free Software                (intevation.net)  
The FreeGIS Project                                         (freegis.org)
Association for a Free Informational Infrastructure            (ffii.org)
FSF Europe                                            (www.fsfeurope.org)


From donn at oz.net  Thu Jan  4 00:57:40 2001
From: donn at oz.net (Donn Cave)
Date: 4 Jan 2001 05:57:40 GMT
Subject: Registering C methods when writing a C extension type?
References: <mailman.978564004.19861.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9313ck$sv4$0@216.39.151.169>

Quoth Tom Epperly <tepperly at llnl.gov>:
| I planning to write a C extension type (not module) to provide a Python
| binding for an object or interface defined in an IDL (interface definition
| language) for high performance scientific computing. In the example from
| Mark Lutz's Programming Python (the only documentation I've found that
| directly addresses writing extension types), it does something like the
| following to make the object methods visible (in myobject.c):
|
| static struct PyMethodDef myobject_methods[] = {
|   {"method_one", (PyCFunction)method_one, 1},
|   {"method_two", (PyCFunction)method_two, 1},
|   {"method_three", (PyCFunction)method_three, 1},
|   {NULL, NULL}
| };
|
| static PyObject *
| myobject_getattr(myobject *self, char *name) {
|  /* other stuff deleted */
|  return Py_FindMethod(object_methods, self, name);
| }
|
| /* tp_getattr points to myobject_getattr */
|
| I am wondering what the relative merits/penalties of doing something like
| the following in the constructor for the hypothetical myobject instead of
| the above. I would like feedback about issues of style (am I violating the
| designers intent or using functions intended for internal use only),
| forward/backward portability, and efficiency.
|
| static myobject *
| new_myobject()
| {
|   myobject *self;
|   const int len = sizeof(object_methods)/sizeof(PyMethodDef);
|   int i;
|   self = PyObject_NEW(myobject, &myobjecttype);
|   if (self == NULL) return NULL;
|   for(i = 0 ; i < len ; i++){
|     PyObject *func = PyCFunction_New(object_methods + i, self);
|     if (func != NULL) {
|       PyObject_SetAttrString(self, object_methods[i].ml_name, func);
|       Py_DECREF(func); /* remove extra reference */
|     }
|   }
|   return self;
| }
|
| In this case, the getattr method does not call Py_FindMethod.

I guess you must already know all the work you must do to
implement it.  I mean, if I have this right, myobjecttype
must implement a meaningful setattr function, so you can
indirectly call it via PyObject_SetAttrString();  plus,
the complementary getattr, of course.  I guess you must
have some fairly compelling reason to want to do all that,
instead of simply the normal lookup in the object_method
table you already have anyway.

So my reaction is, that implies to me that the implementation
is pretty complex, and relative to that, questions like whether
PyMethodDef's members are intentionally exposed to application
programmers are no big worry.  It obviously is not the way we
normally do it, but you knew that.  Its efficiency is going
to depend, again, on the implementation - where you wrote
"/* other stuff deleted */".

	Donn Cave, donn at oz.net


From quinn at hork.ugcs.caltech.edu  Wed Jan 31 21:33:25 2001
From: quinn at hork.ugcs.caltech.edu (Quinn Dunkan)
Date: 1 Feb 2001 02:33:25 GMT
Subject: overloading ==
References: <t7hbgnlmu55l42@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <slrn97hinl.i2n.quinn@hork.ugcs.caltech.edu>

On Wed, 31 Jan 2001 16:30:06 -0800, Amritansh Raghav <amritansh at mobilian.com>
wrote:
>can it be done?
>i looked at the operator documentation under Python Runtime Services - but
>didnt find anything to suggest it could be done.

Yes, define __cmp__ or __rcmp__.  See 3.3.1 in the language reference.


From roy at panix.com  Mon Jan  1 16:18:42 2001
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Mon, 01 Jan 2001 16:18:42 -0500
Subject: Returning objects from C extension modules.
Message-ID: <roy-4C735E.16184201012001@news.panix.com>

I've played around a bit with building extension modules in C, and I think 
I've got the hang of the basic stuff.  I (think) I understand how to use 
Py_BuildValue() to return simple values, and lists, tuples, or dictionaries 
of these.

But, what I don't get is how to implement a class and return an object of 
that class.  For example, let's say I've got a function in C which looks like 
this:

typedef struct {
   int weapon_count;
   char name[MAX_NAME];
} record;

record *get_record ()
{
   record *rec_ptr;

   rec_ptr = (record *) malloc (sizeof (record));
   rec_ptr->weapon_count = 3;
   strcpy (rec_ptr->name, "spanish inquisition");
   return rec_ptr;
}

and I want to turn it into a python module which returns an object of class 
sketch, as if I had done something like:

class sketch:
   def __init__ (self)
      self.weapon_count = 3
      self.name = "spanish inquisition"

Do I need to have my extension module return a tuple of values, then build a 
thin wrapper in python which creates the class, instantiates an object of 
that class, and then copies the items of the tuple into the object?  Or is 
there something more straight-forward?


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Tue Jan 23 15:55:38 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 21:55:38 +0100
Subject: How do I know all thrown exceptions of a function?
References: <g3lb49.73s.ln@127.0.0.1> <94d93h$55d$1@troll.powertech.no> <mailman.980059223.25947.python-list@python.org> <Qeya6.7932$AH6.1260668@newsc.telia.net> <3A6B24F0.EA164698@gte.net> <94icr2$6kv$1@animus.fel.iae.nl> <3A6CDBDA.C3120F98@gte.net> <94ipci$afo$1@animus.fel.iae.nl> <3A6CFD8E.BD473DFD@gte.net> <iEab6.8765$Qb7.1233360@newsb.telia.net> <3A6D54CB.2261D535@gte.net> <94jo9u$h45$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <94jt7e01fil@news1.newsguy.com> <Zvjb6.8419$AH6.1356839@newsc.telia.net>
Message-ID: <94kren0b1o@news2.newsguy.com>

"Fredrik Lundh" <fredrik at effbot.org> wrote in message
news:Zvjb6.8419$AH6.1356839 at newsc.telia.net...
> Alex Martelli wrote:
> > Given the comp.* context, and the noun-like usage, I suspect
> > either [2] or more likely [4] are intended.
>
> might so be, but I still cannot make any sense of his
> post.
>
> oh well /F

Me neither.  Maybe, even with the help from the dictionary definitions,
it takes a native speaker to understand it?-)


Alex





From fabrice.n at home.com  Sat Jan 27 12:43:15 2001
From: fabrice.n at home.com (shaka)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 17:43:15 GMT
Subject: does python have a GUI
Message-ID: <TMDc6.984$KP3.528954@news3.rdc1.on.home.com>

I am new at programming and I have started to learn python.  I used to learn
to program Java applet at school.   Java used to have a bunch of Graphic
User Interface(GUI).
I was wondering if python had also a GUI, or how do I give a physical
appearance to my program like a window that open and ask the user to enter
something(not talking about the interactive mode).




From joejava at dragonat.net  Fri Jan  5 18:38:52 2001
From: joejava at dragonat.net (Joel Ricker)
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 18:38:52 -0500
Subject: Migrating to perl?
References: <ggd56.4652$of7.222552@news1.atl>, <3Fa56.4580$of7.216286@news1.atl> <933fa1$j2i$1@newshost.accu.uu.nl> <mailman.978712273.28922.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <HYs56.1065$4Z.78027@news2.atl>

Moshe Zadka wrote in message ...
>On Fri, 5 Jan 2001, "Joel Ricker" <joejava at dragonat.net> wrote:
>>  Also if I
>> understand your example, variables internal to the object are kept
>> internal -- they can't be accessed without a proper method.  With perl
>> anything goes.
>
>Nope. In Python, anything goes, too. Most people assume that if they
>write in the docs what methods are external, intellegient people will
>use them.


I kind of felt that way too but the book I was reading was taking an almost
paranoid approach to OO (he admitted it as such) and so I was going with
internal only variables.  I'm too new to OO to be deviating from what I'm
being taught without as the book said, "Thou shalt screwe things up".   ;)

Joel




From frank_ihlenburg at yahoo.com  Tue Jan  9 05:11:53 2001
From: frank_ihlenburg at yahoo.com (frank ihlenburg)
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 02:11:53 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Fwd: numpy installation problem
Message-ID: <20010109101153.8420.qmail@web4403.mail.yahoo.com>


Note: forwarded message attached.


=====
Frank Ihlenburg
Lotsenring 12
23968 Wismar, Germany

Tel: +49 (0)3841 636051

__________________________________________________
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Subject: numpy installation problem
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 01:40:06 -0800 (PST)
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From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Thu Jan  4 09:15:22 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 15:15:22 +0100
Subject: list operation '+= ' or assignment problem
References: <fXV46.83554$A06.2935629@news1.frmt1.sfba.home.com> <xX_46.2919$AH6.516601@newsc.telia.net>
Message-ID: <9320jh02tnu@news2.newsguy.com>

"Fredrik Lundh" <fredrik at effbot.org> wrote in message
news:xX_46.2919$AH6.516601 at newsc.telia.net...
> Joe Smith wrote:
> > I guess that list assignment is an assignment of the reference
> > to the object and it does not copy the object.  Where as a
> > string object gets copied.
>
> Alex: No.
> Erno: No.
> Greg: Yes, in a way.
> Steve: Yes.
> Tim: No.
>
> time for a poll? ;-)

I suggest we give 'is' and/or 'id()' a casting vote in the poll
as to what is "copied" in a plain assignment...:-).


Alex





From shredwheat at mediaone.net  Tue Jan 23 01:13:32 2001
From: shredwheat at mediaone.net (Pete Shinners)
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 06:13:32 GMT
Subject: beep
References: <11941-3A6D0F37-61@storefull-166.iap.bryant.webtv.net>
Message-ID: <gi9b6.91087$y9.17567648@typhoon.we.rr.com>

> What do I write to just have my pc beep. I have windows 98. I tried
> import winsound
> winsound.beep(400,500)
> But I get an error(exception) message.
> I'm not sure what I"m doing (obviously), I just downloaded Python two
> days ago and I'm just playing with it to see what I can do. Help!

heh, i've found that
>>> print '\a'

does a pretty good job on windows and unix.
although on windows this plays the system default beep wav,
it does not send noise to the speaker/buzzer





From f8dy at my-deja.com  Tue Jan 30 13:45:04 2001
From: f8dy at my-deja.com (Mark Pilgrim)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 18:45:04 GMT
Subject: How to extend sys.path on Win9x permanently?
References: <3a75ef9c.11194652@news.muenster.de> <3A7671A2.30478E8C@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <95723d$h39$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

In article <3A7671A2.30478E8C at engcorp.com>,
  Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:
> Martin Bless wrote:
> >
> > Python20, Win98, PythonWin
> >
> > (1) I'd like   Python.exe/DOS    AND   Python in PythonWin   to start
> > up  with an extended sys.path, having my own lib added,  as if a
> > sys.path.append('c:\\mylib') had already been performed.
> > How can I add the extra path permanently?
>
> Note certain, but it's likely that site.py is imported even under
> PythonWin.  If that's true, and it should be easy to test, just
> create a file in your Python directory with an extension .PTH,
> and place within it the name of the directory you want added
> to sys.path.

Just confirmed that this does work under PythonWin (at least ActiveState's
port).

Step-by-step instructions for Windows: - Find your base Python directory. 
The default is C:\Python20. - In this directory, create a new text file
called something like "my.pth".  Name doesn't matter, but the ".pth"
extension does. - In this file, enter the full path of your scripts
directory, e.g. c:\mylib.  If you have more than one, list them each on their
own line.  Do *not* use double-backslashes ("c:\\mylib" is wrong); this is
not a Python string, it's just a text file.  (I made this mistake. ;-) - Quit
and re-run PythonWin.  "import sys; print '\n'.join(sys.path)" to make sure
your directory is listed.

-M
--
You're smart; why haven't you learned Python yet?  http://diveintopython.org/


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From jurgen.defurne at philips.com  Wed Jan 17 03:23:42 2001
From: jurgen.defurne at philips.com (jurgen.defurne at philips.com)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 09:23:42 +0100
Subject: Curses module for Python 2.0 for Windows NT
Message-ID: <0056900015212200000002L002*@MHS>

Dear all,

I am busy automating tasks across some Windows NT workstations, where
I control another program (Continuus/CM, if any one knows that).
Unfortunately, that control is not that easy. Ihave built a GUI interface,
but I am not really satisfied with it, so I want to simplify it somewhat so that
it can run in a DOS box using curses. Is there a curses add-on available
for the Win32 binaries ? It sure isn't part of the distribution I am using,
which is still the BeOpen version of Python 2.0

Regards,

Jurgen


From andreas at andreas-jung.com  Tue Jan  9 09:55:44 2001
From: andreas at andreas-jung.com (Andreas Jung)
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 15:55:44 +0100
Subject: post in CGI scripts
In-Reply-To: <1A4E530F40B6D3119E880050041D6DE0BED033@wntceda3.ceda.polimi.it>; from Uberto.Barbini@ceda.polimi.it on Tue, Jan 09, 2001 at 03:38:06PM +0100
References: <1A4E530F40B6D3119E880050041D6DE0BED033@wntceda3.ceda.polimi.it>
Message-ID: <20010109155544.A7148@yetix.sz-sb.de>

On Tue, Jan 09, 2001 at 03:38:06PM +0100, Barbini Uberto wrote:
> I've found some problems to use "post" method in my cgi script (in python).
> 
> have to run both with "get" and "post" html form methods.
> 
> Anyway my script (a converter from nntp to html) can get input values only
> with "get" method and not with "post" method.
> 
> I'm using Xitami under w2k. I configured it adding a filter which link *.py
> to python.exe.
> 
The POST or GET method should be invisible to the application
when using the cgi module of Python. For further debugging you should take a
look at the CGI environment (os.environ dictionary) for both methods. The
arguments for GET method are passed in the QUERY_STRING variable and through
stdin for the POST method. Maybe your web server is doing dothing stupid.

Hope this helps,
Andreas




From mhc at Eng.Sun.COM  Sat Jan 13 23:38:24 2001
From: mhc at Eng.Sun.COM (Mike Coffin)
Date: 13 Jan 2001 20:38:24 -0800
Subject: Speed of Python vs. Perl
References: <mailman.979287020.15447.python-list@python.org> <93oled$o48b3$1@fido.engr.sgi.com>
Message-ID: <8p6zogubven.fsf@Eng.Sun.COM>

pj at sgi.com (Paul Jackson) writes:

> Tim wrote
> |> Talk someone into writing a patch; I've got no bandwidth to spare.
> 
> See another branch of this news thread for a patch (both 1.5.2
> and 2.0 variants).
> 
> Me thinks this (getting startup time competitive with Perl) is
> a hard problem, and that the two tweaks in my patch help, but
> not greatly.
> 
> The combination of the dynamic nature of Python, with having
> much of its run time library support loaded from Python code,
> not compiled in, would seem to force Python to do upwards of
> 10 million instructions on startup.
> 
> I don't see anyway around this.

One way is to provide some sort of "dump" facility that allows the
program to initialize, dump the state, and then make an executable
from the dumped state.  Emacs does (or at least, did) this to reduce
startup time.

-mike


From moshez at zadka.site.co.il  Mon Jan  8 20:52:53 2001
From: moshez at zadka.site.co.il (Moshe Zadka)
Date: Tue,  9 Jan 2001 03:52:53 +0200 (IST)
Subject: Web devel with python. Whats the best route?
In-Reply-To: <93cqvi0191h@news1.newsguy.com>
References: <93cqvi0191h@news1.newsguy.com>, <mailman.978910629.6814.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <20010109015253.2CBFEA82D@darjeeling.zadka.site.co.il>

On Mon, 8 Jan 2001 17:46:13 +0100, "Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote:

> CGI.  Really.  Your admin system doesn't look like the kind of thing that
> will be continuously getting multiple hits a second, making CGI overhead
> a problem.  If that is the case, CGI is easiest.  *Do the simplest thing
> that can possibly work*!

CGI is not an answer. Perhaps you meant "CGI with lots of little
print '<HTML>' this and print '<BODY>' that", which is as far from
the simplest thing that could possible work as possible. Most Python web
frameworks work just fine from CGI (PSP, WebWare, and even Quixote, I think).
Those are answers, and very good ones.
Perhaps even CGI+HTMLgen is an answer, though this might depend on
personal taste. 

Of course, the simplest thing that can possible work interface-to-the-browser
part is of course not even going with CGI, but with inheriting from
BaseHTTPRequestHandler. Connecting that to something like PSP you
get a cross-platform solution which is very easy. Connecting it to ZODB
may be the final piece of the puzzle -- with ZODB and a dash of cookies,
state management becomes so easy you'll wonder how you did without
it.

Of course, to be true to the Python tradition, take the 
PSPHTTPRequestHandler+ZODB and join the egroup mailing list for Python
web frameworks developers.

using-mod_perl+HTML::Mason-and-hating-it-myself-ly y'rs, Z.
-- 
Moshe Zadka <sig at zadka.site.co.il>
This is a signature anti-virus. 
Please stop the spread of signature viruses!



From sholden at holdenweb.com  Fri Jan 12 08:12:26 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 08:12:26 -0500
Subject: boolean xor
References: <XFMail.010112083849.mikael@isy.liu.se>
Message-ID: <UsD76.5769$6i.83249@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com>

"Mikael Olofsson" <mikael at isy.liu.se> wrote in message
news:XFMail.010112083849.mikael at isy.liu.se...

On 11-Jan-01 Steve Holden wrote:
 >  But that's not something you wouldn't not
 >  want to do on a regular basis, probably.

VaguenessError: Too many negations.

/Mikael

Sorry if this puzzled some readers.

I do not not not not not not not not not not agree with Mikael's assertion,
which I did not not not not not not not not not not make in a feeble attempt
to be humorous. Apparently this was not not not not not not not not not
quite as funny as I thought.

Usenet error: sense of humour failure.

regards
 Steve




From malik.thomas at lbbw.de  Fri Jan 19 09:49:19 2001
From: malik.thomas at lbbw.de (Thomas Malik)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 15:49:19 +0100
Subject: interesting bound-built-in-method technique
References: <9476k6$d55$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <3A6853EF.E80D2E63@lbbw.de>

Chris Ryland wrote:
> 
> Reading the Quixote sources taught me an interesting little "hack"
> using bound-built-in methods:
> 
> >>> m = {'foo': 1, 'bar': 0}.has_key
> >>> m('foo')
> 1
> >>> m('bar')
> 0
> 
> Is this a common idiom in Python? Very clever for turning a dictionary
> lookup into a functional form.
> 
> Are there other clever but generally obscure idia? (Idioms? ;-)
 
How about 'wanna-be' class functions ? like static member functions in
C++ (where you don't need a this/self object) ?

class A:
  def __init__(self, name):
    self.name = name

  def __str__(self):
    return self.__class__.__name__ + ':' + self.name

  def makeA(name):  # 'factory' method. Note: no self argument
    return A(name)

class B(A):
  pass

# call through method's im_func attribute
a = A.makeA.im_func('a')
# sometimes, it's useful to call a given class's method with some
provided 'self'
print B.__bases__[0].__str__.im_func(a)


From reborn at neozone.net  Tue Jan 30 20:26:31 2001
From: reborn at neozone.net (¾Æ¹«)
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 10:26:31 +0900
Subject: Q : About Jython & Applet (i'm begginer -_-)
Message-ID: <957pjq$mg9$1@news1.kornet.net>

hi.. I'm begginer for jython..

I make a simple applet with jython

source is  :

import java
class HelloApplet(java.applet.Applet):
    def paint(self,g):
        g.setColor(java.awt.Color.black)
        g.fill3DRect(5,5,590,100,0)
        g.setFont(java.awt.Font("Arial",0,80))
        g.setColor(java.awt.Color.magenta)
        g.drawString("Hello World", 90, 80)

as you know that it's just print "Hello World"

but, I don't see that result though appletviewer or explorer

I'm using jdk 1.3.0_01, jython 2.0..

I just installed and setted the pass.

.java & .class are OK.

What I have to do something for that?





From mmiller3 at iupui.edu  Fri Jan  5 18:00:06 2001
From: mmiller3 at iupui.edu (Michael A. Miller)
Date: 05 Jan 2001 18:00:06 -0500
Subject: examples of PIL and pallets?
Message-ID: <87k8898v0p.fsf@lumen.med.iupui.edu>

Can anyone point me to an example of using pallets and image
mode 'P' with PIL?

Mike


From vecernik at aon.at  Thu Jan 25 06:51:43 2001
From: vecernik at aon.at (Oliver Vecernik)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 12:51:43 +0100
Subject: Data output
References: <3A6F05CD.D37C383B@aon.at>
Message-ID: <3A70134F.50EA63F2@aon.at>

I also tried to write to named pipes directly. It also worked fine:

p = open(r'\\printserver\port')
p.write('something')
p.close

My printer is connected to an external print server. But if connected to
a local port on a Win XX machine I need a *raw* device driver for the
printer. Does anybody know how this can be achieved? I'd like to use
Windows built in spooling capabilities, even if the printer is connected
to an external print server.

Oliver

Oliver Vecernik wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> I recently started using Python and I like it a lot.
> I'd like to control label printers. I know how to control them, but I
> don't know how to output data on Win XX or Linux machines to network
> printers.
> I don't want any windows driver to convert anything (like adding
> formfeeds, newlines or whatever).
> 
> Can anyone give my a clue or point me to some documentation?
> 
> Thanks.
> Oliver

-- 
VECERNIK Datenerfassungssysteme
AT-2560 Hernstein, Hofkogelgasse 17
Tel.: +43 2633 47530, Fax: DW 50
http://members.aon.at/vecernik


From fredrik at effbot.org  Thu Jan 18 16:47:54 2001
From: fredrik at effbot.org (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 21:47:54 GMT
Subject: os.popen and popen2
References: <MIo96.76568$eB2.6160368@news.infostrada.it> <9472c7$8u9$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <mailman.979851997.13713.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ewJ96.7167$Qb7.1061790@newsb.telia.net>

C. Porter Bassett wrote:
> In the documentation, it says that the windows version of os.popen was
> unstable prior to python 2.0.  Does anybody know if this applies equally
> to the popen2 module?

the popen2 module didn't work at all on Windows
before 1.6/2.0.

Cheers /F




From erno-news at erno.iki.fi  Sun Jan 14 07:05:40 2001
From: erno-news at erno.iki.fi (Erno Kuusela)
Date: 14 Jan 2001 14:05:40 +0200
Subject: libpython2.0 as a Linux shared library
References: <3A618354.577B192A@mega-nerd.com>
Message-ID: <kuofxafiej.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>

In article <3A618354.577B192A at mega-nerd.com>, Erik de Castro Lopo
<nospam at mega-nerd.com> writes:

| Does anybody know how to configure and compile Python so that
| libpython2.0 is a shared library?

you could look at the debian packages, i think they do that.

it seems python2 is currently in the limbo between
incoming.debian.org and ftp.debian.org, but it should
show up at ftp.debian.org in the vicinity of
/debian/dists/woody/main/source/interpreters/python2-*
soon.

or you could look at the debian python 1.5.2 packages.

  -- erno


From sholden at holdenweb.com  Sat Jan  6 14:48:05 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2001 14:48:05 -0500
Subject: Whose functions are realer (was: Migrating to perl?)
References: <V%c56.4648$of7.221797@news1.atl> <3Fa56.4580$of7.216286@news1.atl> <mailman.978670867.31055.python-list@python.org> <mailman.978711967.28730.python-list@python.org> <356AB932B7198FB4.3EC0B75D519810CE.57FCF0BC6A8679C4@lp.airnews.net> <mailman.978731526.10714.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <vFK56.4401$qz1.180536@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>

D-Man <dsh8290 at rit.edu> wrote in message
news:mailman.978731526.10714.python-list at python.org...
> On Fri, Jan 05, 2001 at 11:30:28AM -0600, Cameron Laird wrote:
> | Yes, I can imagine there are historical reasons Perlites backtick
> | rather freely.
>
> I can't say for sure, but this feature probably came from bash.  In
> bash using a backtick means to execute the command and put its stdout
> here.
>
> -D
>
This usage is much older than bash: it was a feature of the Unix 5th edition
version of the Bourne shell, IIRC.  But you are correct that Perl took the
syntax from Unix shell usage: it's just that bash is a relative newcomer to
the scene :-)

regards
 Steve

>
>



From psalvan at my-deja.com  Wed Jan 31 09:39:15 2001
From: psalvan at my-deja.com (psalvan at my-deja.com)
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 14:39:15 GMT
Subject: Date-time class
Message-ID: <95982i$bta$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

I need a simple and practical DateTime class....

The standard python library seems to lack such class: a class with methods
getYear,m getMonth, ... getSecond, that let me make make time arithmetic (ie:
how many month beetween 12/4/1998 and 3/1/2001? How many day? How many
seconds? How can I get 7/12/1978 + 1 month?), etc.... some help????

It seems to me standard library lacks simple and practical date/time
support...I'm right?

                                      Paolo


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From michael at stroeder.com  Sat Jan 13 13:08:52 2001
From: michael at stroeder.com (Michael =?iso-8859-1?Q?Str=F6der?=)
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 19:08:52 +0100
Subject: python-ldap binary for Python 2.0 under Win32
Message-ID: <3A6099B4.A55C9258@stroeder.com>

HI!

(Aargh! Wrong URL in my previous message!)

A quick note that there is a Win32 build of the python-ldap module
available for download now which is e.g. needed for running web2ldap
on Win32 platform:

http://www.web2ldap.de/install.html#packages_win32

Thanks to the contributor!

Any feedback is appreciated.

Ciao, Michael.


From pbjorn at uswest.net  Thu Jan  4 12:45:33 2001
From: pbjorn at uswest.net (Bjorn Pettersen)
Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 10:45:33 -0700
Subject: why no "do : until"?
References: <92jj3j$ff7$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <slrn94shbe.150.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <X8s36.2731$Qb7.305339@newsb.telia.net> <slrn94smds.150.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <FOt36.17$vd1.2224@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com> <slrn94t1vj.150.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <3A4E95FD.D6C737A7@engcorp.com> <slrn94tqkh.150.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <tpr46.7782$4c.597534@ruti.visi.com> <slrn954h6p.rgv.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <3A52AD6A.62D043A2@engcorp.com> <3A534367.36B1FD18@uswest.net> <slrn957j19.go.amk@207-172-36-81.s81.tnt6.ann.va.dialup.rcn.com> <3A53F4B1.6227D241@uswest.net> <931gf302dsi@news2.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <3A54B6BA.F4550C96@uswest.net>

Hi Alex,

Sometimes I think you can type faster than I can read, so you'll have to excuse
the excessive snippage :-)

Alex Martelli wrote:

> "Bjorn Pettersen" <pbjorn at uswest.net> wrote in message
> news:3A53F4B1.6227D241 at uswest.net...
>     [snip]
> > If what you want to do can't be expressed directly in the language, and
> > the only reason people don't want to change it is because they're used to
> > the status quo, I feel justified in calling it a holy cow ;-)
>
> [snip]
> I *WOULD* mind, *A LOT*, if, rather than regularizing syntax for the
> general form of loop, Python were to add other special-cases with
> their own syntax variations.  *SIMPLICITY*!  *ONE* general loop form

I guess this is where our opinions differ. I'm of the school of "make the
general case easy, but make the common case trivial". This means I'm strongly
in favor of adding special cases for often used looping constructs. I'm _not_
in favor of adding special cases for every conceivable looping construct
however. E.g. I'm not in favor of adding a do/while loop.

In the project I'm currently working on (C++, ~33 Kloc) there are 346 while
loops, and only 24 do/while loops. Of the while loops, 12 are "while(1)" (there
are also three for(;;)), 95 contain an assignment ("while (line =
fp.readline())"), and the rest contain "regular" tests. I'm therefore likely to
argue against adding do/while, and special syntax for "while 1" (i.e. loop: or
while:), but for adding special syntax for assignments in the test part of a
while loop (on the principle that if they're used that frequently in a language
that has them, they must be somewhat useful).

The project also contains 884 for loops, and though I didn't check, I would
assume most of them are of the form "for (i=0;i<j;i++)", which means I would
probably argue for special syntax for the Pythonic "for i in
range(len(sequence))"... (perhaps "for i in 1..10" or perhaps a special form of
list comprehensions "for i in [1..10 by 2]" <wink>)

At least we both agree that the print>> syntax is a wart, and perhaps also that
the special casing of print>>None is counterintuitive ;-)

but-it-was-Guido's-baby-as-is-Python'ly y'rs
-- bjorn




From cobrien at Radix.Net  Thu Jan 25 09:36:09 2001
From: cobrien at Radix.Net (Cary O'Brien)
Date: 25 Jan 2001 09:36:09 -0500
Subject: Python and postgreSQL ??
References: <slrn96uhcq.1u1.isard@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <94pdkp$b9n$1@saltmine.radix.net>

In article <slrn96uhcq.1u1.isard at localhost.localdomain>,
Carles =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sadurn=ED?= Anguita <sadurni_mira_la_firma at jazzfree.com> wrote:
>I've search unsuccessfully a tutorial about "attack" postgreSQL with Python.
>Can anybody help me?
>
>I would like to write a little program (python/tkinter) for a friend of mine
>who wants to mantain data about his costumers and who has no time to learn
>too much about computers.
>

You may want to check out Zope (http://www.zope.org).  Zope is a web
application framework that has pretty good support for PostgreSQL (you
have to add an extra module (well, package) that you can get from the
web site.).

The Tutorial that comes with Zope shows how to create a
database-backed application.

This would give you a web-based application, rather than an X
application, which may or may not be ok.

NB: The tutorial that comes with pygresql is mostly a transliteration
of the PostgreSQL tutorial, rather than an example of how to use
pygresql in an application.

NB2: There are at least two Python<->PostgreSQL interfaces.  The one
that comes with Postgresql and one called (Get this!) PoPy.

     http://freshmeat.net/search/?q=popy

Should do the trick.

NB3: There is now a postgresql book!  Check amazon.com for details
     
-- cary


>
>Thanks in advance
>
>-- 
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Carles Sadurn? Anguita    |   no hab?a que cumplir promesas,
>                          |   el cansancio era de placer,
>Quita _mira_la_firma para |   las l?grimas eran de risas...
>responder.                |   y parece que a?n fue ayer.
>                          |           Los Suaves
>------------------------------------------------------------------------




From rcalco at cortechs.com  Mon Jan  1 15:54:13 2001
From: rcalco at cortechs.com (Bob Calco)
Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2001 15:54:13 -0500
Subject: Recursion
Message-ID: <HBEJKOJGHBOIBHLHPMKGCECICFAA.rcalco@cortechs.com>

Anyone:

I noticed the following while dabbling in Perl, Ruby and Python recently.
Take your standard factorial implementation, a la:

PYTHON
======
import sys

def factor(n):
  if n == 1:
    return 1
  else:
    return n*factor(n-1)

print factor(int(sys.argv[1]))

fact.pl
=======
sub fact {
  my($n) = shift;
  if ($n eq 1) {
    return 1;
  } else {
    return ($n * fact($n-1));
  }
}
print fact($ARGV[0]), "\n";

fact.rb
=======
def fact(n)
  if n == 1
    1
  else
    n*fact(n-1)
  end
end
print fact(ARGV[0].to_i), "\n"

The highest value for n you can run in Python is 12; after that you get
overflow error messages. In Perl, the largest value is 170 (after which you
get 1.#INF for an answer). In Ruby, you can input a value as high as 763
before you get a SystemStackError (stack level too deep) error.

Couple questions:

1. Why the vast difference between the languages? Is this apparent
limitation in Python deliberate, or the consequence of some other design
decision?

2. In the real world, does this really matter? Does Ruby have any meaningful
advantage over Python in this regard? (I understand I might get different
replies if I asked this question on the Ruby email list. I have different
questions for Ruby fans!)

I'm trying to decide which of these languages to embed in my application or
at the very least require in the user environment. I like all of them, and I
lean toward Python because it's much cleaner than Perl and more mature than
Ruby and Mark Hammond's Win32 extenstion fully supports COM on Win32, which
would make it a very useful framework for prototyping our COM objects and
developing our own test suites to exercise them when they are implemented in
C++. But I was surprised to find such a difference when testing each
language's support for recursion.

Any thoughts welcome.

Sincerely,

Bob Calco
CorTechs, Inc.
rcalco at cortechs.com




From peter at engcorp.com  Sat Jan 27 11:12:49 2001
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 11:12:49 -0500
Subject: Python exporting
References: <nyBc6.3633$Uo2.9217@newsfeed.slurp.net>
Message-ID: <3A72F381.BEDBA99D@engcorp.com>

bowman wrote:
> 
> ACCRA (Reuters) - Ghana's earnings from exporting pythons slid more than 40
> percent in 2000 as rising exports from neighbouring states flooded the
> world market, forestry officials said on Wednesday.
[snip]
> "They are mostly used as pets and in some instances for scientific
> purposes. However, the larger ones are sometimes used as delicacies in
> restaurants," Basuglo said.

I prefer the smaller ones: the juices are concentrated,
so they tend to be sweeter.


From samschul at pacbell.net  Mon Jan 22 15:46:12 2001
From: samschul at pacbell.net (Sam Schulenburg)
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 20:46:12 GMT
Subject: What does Python do
References: <94gmeu$4fc$1@sooner.brightok.net>
Message-ID: <94i66h$7fs$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

In article <94gmeu$4fc$1 at sooner.brightok.net>,
  "Dead Dan" <danielhill at brightok.net> wrote:
> What kinds of programs can you make with Python. Does anyone have some
> examples.
>
> Dan
>
>

I use Python to develop manufacturing test process. One example is a
Tkinter based GUI that displays up to 21 network attached storage
devices. The user is then allowed to start and stop tests to these
devices. the main features of this program are:
1) Each test is a sepreate thread
2) All test results are logged to seperate log files
3) Status is provided to the user for each test
4) Network IP address are scanned for active devices

The python code takes up twelve pages of well commented source code.
The same process written in 'C' would take up from three to five times
the space.

Sam Schulenburg



Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From db3l at fitlinxx.com  Fri Jan 19 19:28:59 2001
From: db3l at fitlinxx.com (David Bolen)
Date: 19 Jan 2001 19:28:59 -0500
Subject: Deployment woes (was: I will kill my Python)
References: <mailman.979852022.13720.python-list@python.org> <947r18$rdt$1@news.online.de> <WV0a6.745$eI2.252250@ruti.visi.com> <4DE7F9DB9399A3C1.D96FC6EFB3F2391E.88AD1775E4555FCA@lp.airnews.net>
Message-ID: <un1cn12yc.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com>

claird at starbase.neosoft.com (Cameron Laird) writes:

> I defer to those with more certain knowledge.  I find
> Win* habits too esoteric for my comprehension; that's
> as definite as I can be.

There's a technical term for this process under Windows - "DLL hell" :-)

--
-- David
-- 
/-----------------------------------------------------------------------\
 \               David Bolen            \   E-mail: db3l at fitlinxx.com  /
  |             FitLinxx, Inc.            \  Phone: (203) 708-5192    |
 /  860 Canal Street, Stamford, CT  06902   \  Fax: (203) 316-5150     \
\-----------------------------------------------------------------------/


From syver at NOSPAMcyberwatcher.com  Sun Jan  7 19:13:49 2001
From: syver at NOSPAMcyberwatcher.com (Syver Enstad)
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 01:13:49 +0100
Subject: How to run more than one instance of the Python interpreter in one process?
References: <mailman.978862627.7187.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <93b0sk$u1l$1@troll.powertech.no>

"Tim Peters" <tim.one at home.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.978862627.7187.python-list at python.org...
> [Syver Enstad]
> > I am fiddling around with embedding Python in C/C++ and am trying
> > to run one interpreter per thread. I've tried using the
> > Py_NewInterpreter and Py_EndInterpreter for each thread but it
> > doesn't seem to be enough because I trigger access violations in
> > the interpreter so I am obviously missing a couple of things. Are
> > there any examples on how to do these kinds of things other than
> > the very sparse code in the demo folder of the source distribution.
>
> None that I've ever seen, or heard of.  Py_{New,End}Interpreter appeared
to
> have been added during a brief bout of Tcl Envy, and neglected thereafter.
> The natural place to talk about this is the Python Thread-SIG:

Thanks for answering Tim, but I don't really know if I need to use these
functions, what I need is how to run different python "applications" from
the same process. When I say applications I mean like for instance
PyRun_SimpleFile. These applications must not share things like sys.stdout
for instance because I am going to assign it to different objects for each
thread. Does these requirements mandate using something like
Py_NewInterpreter or can it be achieved in other ways.

NB. This is my first shot at using the Python C interface so there are
probably obvious things I haven't grok'ed yet, but I know C++ well.




From tim.one at home.com  Tue Jan 16 19:37:00 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 19:37:00 -0500
Subject: [ANNOUNCE] FreeImage 2.0.0 out!
In-Reply-To: <3A64BC61.E7570F28@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCOEBLIJAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Oleg Broytmann]
>    Linux certainly has [MSVC 6]! Thank you for explanation :)))

[Erik Max Francis]
> What are you talking about?

That's what happens when community norms are ignored.  Let me translate:

    Linux certainly has <wink/snort>.  Thank you for
    explanation <wink><wink><wink><wink>.

The last could be abbreviated to <4.0 wink> for efficiency, although winkery
values larger than 1.0 should really be reserved for situations that require
such extreme dramatic impact.

simple-tools-for-simple-times-ly y'rs  - tim




From hamish_lawson at yahoo.co.uk  Fri Jan 26 04:10:29 2001
From: hamish_lawson at yahoo.co.uk (Hamish Lawson)
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 09:10:29 GMT
Subject: .cgi or .cgp or .py or ?
References: <mailman.980188705.18836.python-list@python.org> <slrn971mq7.94m.tim@degree.ath.cx>
Message-ID: <94reu2$8uh$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

Tim Hammerquist wrote:

> You can at least take comfort in the fact that the
> mass majority of P*** CGI scripts have either no extension or .cgi and
> therefore do not "promote" their mother-language in the way you
> described.

However, if you have scripts in various languages at your site, using
the extension of .py may make it easier at some future date to migrate
your Python scripts to being handled by something other than the
universal CGI handler - for example, the Apache mod_python handler.

Hamish Lawson


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From timr at probo.com  Fri Jan 26 01:53:01 2001
From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 22:53:01 -0800
Subject: smtplib --> receiving emails two times
References: <94paet$9o3$1@news.netcologne.de>
Message-ID: <ph727tshcs4jpufk7iafl67l46jac83jdh@4ax.com>

Toralf Wittner <wittner at fossilverlag.de> wrote:

>Hi Python coders,
>
>I try to collect data from a HTML formular via cgi and email the stuff to a 
>certain address. The script is as follows:
>...
>This works basically, however all emails are received two times wich is 
>annoying at least . I can't see why this happens 

Me, either offhand.  Is it possible your script is getting executed twice
for some readon?  You didn't give us the HTML from the calling page.

You might try creating a log file.  I find that to be a good way to debug
my CGI scripts:

def Log(msg):
  f = open('/tmp/log','a')
  # Might want to prepend date/time.
  f.write(msg)
  f.close()

Log( "I got here" )
...
Log( "Recipient is %s" % to_address )
--
- Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
  Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.


From andreas at andreas-jung.com  Mon Jan 15 07:30:39 2001
From: andreas at andreas-jung.com (Andreas Jung)
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 13:30:39 +0100
Subject: checking free disk space
In-Reply-To: <A69BC9CA4B39D411BF2200105A45B45B075B8C27@dhexchange.discoveryhealth.co.za>; from LangaK@discoveryhealth.co.za on Mon, Jan 15, 2001 at 02:23:59PM +0200
References: <A69BC9CA4B39D411BF2200105A45B45B075B8C27@dhexchange.discoveryhealth.co.za>
Message-ID: <20010115133039.A3619@yetix.sz-sb.de>

On Mon, Jan 15, 2001 at 02:23:59PM +0200, Langa Kentane wrote:
> Please can you point me in the right direction.  I posted something before
> on this list but I realised that will not work in a wind0ze environment.

I would use os.statvfs() however this seems to be available
only under Unix.

Andreas 



From dsh8290 at rit.edu  Mon Jan  8 14:29:57 2001
From: dsh8290 at rit.edu (D-Man)
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 14:29:57 -0500
Subject: Thank you (was Re: Should I learn Python or Java?)
In-Reply-To: <93dg5b080h@news1.newsguy.com>; from aleaxit@yahoo.com on Mon, Jan 08, 2001 at 11:43:11PM +0100
References: <HEO56.5504$y9.2881293@typhoon.we.rr.com> <G2V56.5826$y9.3184141@typhoon.we.rr.com> <mailman.978901087.32745.python-list@python.org> <3A593236.6331BE0C@engcorp.com> <mailman.978966549.13022.python-list@python.org> <93dg5b080h@news1.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <20010108142957.F4159@rit.edu>

On Mon, Jan 08, 2001 at 11:43:11PM +0100, Alex Martelli wrote:
| "D-Man" <dsh8290 at rit.edu> wrote in message
| news:mailman.978966549.13022.python-list at python.org...
|     [snip]
| > The company I am working for now uses Java for the SDK and runtime
| > library.  Part of the purpose of the product is to generate a Java
| > class that our customers can use to do screen scraping from Java
| > apps/applets.  Due to the nature of this product and its target
| > audience it is rather tied to Java.
| 
| So, can Jython help you?  Not a rhetorical question, I'd really like to
| know -- I don't have a good grasp of exactly how far you can go
| using Jython vs Java, or what the performance ratios are...
| 

Hmm, Jython compiles my friendly Python code to Java bytecode right?
It's possible.  I should talk to my boss about a way to try it out.
Probably off the clock though.  (It's a nice small company, only 9
developers, 3 of which are co-ops :-))

| 
| Alex
| 

-D




From sill at localhost.kitenet.net  Tue Jan 16 21:35:07 2001
From: sill at localhost.kitenet.net (Oldayz)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 02:35:07 GMT
Subject: My first script (so go easy on me!)
References: <B689D7B0.8ABF%bobhicks@adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <vx796.4108$tq1.254271@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>

On Tue, 16 Jan 2001 15:50:17 GMT, Robert L Hicks <bobhicks at adelphia.net> wrote:
>#!/usr/bin/python
>
>##
># This is a small script to cause the inetd daemon to re-read itself
>##
>
>r = "kill -HUP `ps cax|grep inetd|awk '{print $1}'`"  # restarts the daemon
>n = "Inetd not restarted"
>w = "Answer needs to be 'yes' or 'no'. Try again!"
>
>answer = " "
> 
>query = raw_input("Do you want to restart the INETD daemon? (yes/no): ")
#I'd do it like this:
answer = raw_input("Do you want to restart the INETD daemon? [Y/n]: ")
# Y is default, i.e. hitting enter is interpreted as yes
# typing yes or no is really too much typing in this case

>
>if len(answer) > 2:
>    print r
>elif len(answer) < 2:
>    print w
>else:
>    print n

if len(answer) == 0:
	os.system(r)
	# os.system runs the string..
elif answer[0] == 'y' or answer[0] == 'Y':
	os.system(r)
elif answer[0] == 'n' or answer[0] == 'N':
	print n
else:
	print w

# I'm assuming r does what it's supposed to, I didn't test it.. nor the
# code above

Hope this helps.
>
>
>Is this ok? My question is when the print statement is run do I need to do a
>linefeed so the terminal accepts what was printed? Or does the fact that
>python send the print to the terminal cause the terminal to execute it?
>
>How would you clean this up?
>
>Bob
>


-- 

	Andrei


From fgleeson at my-deja.com  Tue Jan  2 10:26:07 2001
From: fgleeson at my-deja.com (fgleeson at my-deja.com)
Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2001 15:26:07 GMT
Subject: Komodo
References: <B672A66F.72CC%bobhicks@adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <92sru7$6b$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

In article <B672A66F.72CC%bobhicks at adelphia.net>,
  Robert L Hicks <bobhicks at adelphia.net> wrote:
> Has anyone tried Komodo from ActiveState yet? What are you thoughts on
it? I
> see that a Linux beta is out now as well.
The windows beta is available, the linux version is still at tech
preview 3. The beta release is promising and has enough features to be
useful for debugging perl scripts. You will need Windows Scripting Host
if you do not already have it (wscript.exe). The MSI install will bomb
out on you without expanation with a runtime error. WSH is available as
a free download from MS.

For whatever reason debugging is painfully slow, my computer may be a
bit underpowered for the task 300 Mhz pentium. It is hard to understand
where the bottleneck is. Perl.exe is very fast. I do not know if Active
State is communicating with perl.exe's built in debugger or duplicating
that functionality in a windows program. But I have a faster computer on
order.

You can take some of the pain out of debugging by using breakpoints
instead of single stepping. Overall it is a promising product, that
fills an important niche. The beta is definitely worth experimenting
with.



Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From rindolf2 at yahoo.comNOSPAM  Tue Jan  2 21:37:28 2001
From: rindolf2 at yahoo.comNOSPAM (Rindolf)
Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 02:37:28 GMT
Subject: GIF Image Size
References: <Wxp46.24381$F_3.940941@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <92tbig$ede$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <Ifw46.28043$F_3.1077811@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>

"Greg Landrum" <glandrum at my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:92tbig$ede$1 at nnrp1.deja.com...
> In article <Wxp46.24381$F_3.940941 at newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>,
>   "Rindolf" <rindolf2 at yahoo.comNOSPAM> wrote:
> > Is there any way to find out the dimensions of a GIF image using
> python? I
> > looked in the language reference and it didn't look like there was.
> >
>
> If you are going to be working with GIFs (or any image format for that
> matter), you probably want to install PIL:
> http://www.pythonware.com/products/pil/index.htm
> Once you have that installed, you can easily determine the size of a GIF
> as follows:
> from Pil import Image
> img = Image.open('foo.gif')
> print img.size
>
> I hope this helps,
Thank you! Btw, what type of object is img.size, and what is the class of
object returned by Image.open()?

Rindolf




From moshez at zadka.site.co.il  Mon Jan  1 21:31:56 2001
From: moshez at zadka.site.co.il (Moshe Zadka)
Date: Tue,  2 Jan 2001 04:31:56 +0200 (IST)
Subject: A single, general looping construct? (was: why no "do : until"?)
In-Reply-To: <92qc21$538$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
References: <92qc21$538$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, <92jj3j$ff7$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <92m9pm$d19$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <B3z36.122$9s1.18804@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com> <3A4EC5B1.8912E571@engcorp.com> <x8G36.156$9s1.31209@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <20010102023156.C5B45A84F@darjeeling.zadka.site.co.il>

On Mon, 01 Jan 2001 16:42:42 GMT, rturpin at my-deja.com wrote:

> But the core idea, in Pythonic syntax,
> would look like this:
> 
>     do: <A> while <x>: <B>

Actually, I think that's very close to the Forth syntax
of that loop-and-a-half.

-- 
Moshe Zadka <sig at zadka.site.co.il>
This is a signature anti-virus. 
Please stop the spread of signature viruses!



From jdries at mail.com  Mon Jan  1 21:31:58 2001
From: jdries at mail.com (Jan Dries)
Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2001 03:31:58 +0100
Subject: Simulating WWW button press
References: <Xns901CE2154Latzikatz@139.174.2.56> <mailman.978398162.28694.python-list@python.org> <Xns901D1B3B2Latzikatz@139.174.2.56>
Message-ID: <3A513D9E.B585A665@mail.com>


Lutz Schroeer wrote:
> 
> Jan Dries <jdries at mail.com> wrote in
> <mailman.978398162.28694.python-list at python.org>:
> 
> Well, maybe this snippet of the (very unreadable) source is large enough.
> 
> <form ACTION="/dyx-pv/onepagebatch/lV21.zip" ENCTYPE=x-www-form-encoded
> METHOD=POST>

Oops, a zip-file. That's not making things easier. Transporting it to
your machine will not be so difficult, but construction the actual
zip-file from the respons might present you a few surprises. I've never
worked with programmed http requests that returned anything other than
plain text of html though, so I'm afraid I can't help you if you run in
trouble here.

> 
> <INPUT NAME="zipallpage" TYPE="submit" VALUE="Get all files">
> </form>
> 
> I tried and read some more stuff and ended at the example 11.3.2 in the
> Library reference (1.5.2). Unfortunately my own
> version of this code doesn't work (it stucks after the getfile() ).

I assume you mean 11.4.2 (there's no getfile() in 11.3.2). Anyway, the
sample code in 11.4.2 is a good starting point, although reading the
code I think the line

  h.send(paramstring)

should be replaced by 

  h.send(params)

But you also do need to look for all the <INPUT> elements in the form
you mentioned above, because the value of all these elements must be
supplied as parameters to the POST action. 

> 
> Is my suggestion right that the base address for the submission is the
> same as the page's base address if the code defines nothing different?

If the URL in action starts with a /, the URL is relative to the server.
If it starts with http://, it's absolute, and if doesn't start with
either, it's relative to the page containing the form.
In your case, it's relative to the server, so you should change sample
11.4.2 to:

>>> h = httplib.HTTP("...") # (the server the page containging the form is on)
>>> h.putrequest("POST", "/dyx-pv/onepagebatch/lV21.zip")

> 
> Additionally I came to the conclusion that I seem to have to send a
> Content-Length header entry (the server replied me an error 411) but have
> no idea about the value.

You must provide a value for "Content-length" equal to the amount of
bytes sent in the post request, i.e. the size of the string you supply
to the send() method of your HTTP-object (as it is done in example
11.4.2).

> 
> To make it totally complicated the form is on a password protected page.
> So how do I send my username and passwd to the server?

I can't help you here either. I know some forms of authentication use
the "Authentication" header field in the http-request, but I have no
idea how to use it.

> 
> Maybe this informtion
> 
> (it's hard to express a quite complex problem in English which is not my
> native language)

I do speak German, presumably well enough to understand you, as long as
I can answer in English (or Dutch) (it's a bit hard for me to express
complex things in German :-)).

Jan



From grey at despair.rpglink.com  Mon Jan 29 21:28:55 2001
From: grey at despair.rpglink.com (Steve Lamb)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 02:28:55 -0000
Subject: No Python content...
References: <mailman.980817217.3748.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrn97c9n7.k6.grey@teleute.dmiyu.org>

On Mon, 29 Jan 2001 20:11:24 -0500 (EST), Steven D. Majewski
<sdm7g at virginia.edu> wrote:
>10 GIGABYTE STORAGE CAPACITY ON A ROLL OF COMMERCIAL ADHESIVE TAPE 

>without even unwinding it from the roll! 

    No thanks.  It would be just my luck that come christmas someone would use
my por, er, PYTHON archives to wrap presents.  :)

-- 
         Steve C. Lamb         | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your
         ICQ: 5107343          | main connection to the switchboard of souls.
-------------------------------+---------------------------------------------


From jdries at mail.com  Sat Jan 27 07:50:54 2001
From: jdries at mail.com (Jan Dries)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 13:50:54 +0100
Subject: crypt and decrypt
References: <005e01c0883d$2e354700$85a1d4d2@SharmadNaik>
Message-ID: <3A72C42E.E65AD9E0@mail.com>


> Sharmad Naik wrote:
> 
>     Can anyone tell me whether there is a crypting (security) function
> in python 1.52 .

If you just want to encrypt, go for the md5 module. It can provide a
very safe form of authentication.

If you want to be able to decrypt what you encrypt, you may consider the
rotor module. But do realise it's encryption can be (easily) broken, so
don't use it to protect your customer's credit card numbers.

Regards,
Jan



From p at mjs400.co.uk  Fri Jan 19 00:05:36 2001
From: p at mjs400.co.uk (Pete)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 06:05:36 +0100
Subject: Jython-2.0 released
References: <mailman.979852051.13723.python-list@python.org> <m8P96.185124$59.49360823@news3.rdc1.on.home.com>
Message-ID: <3A67CB20.42A0EEDC@mjs400.co.uk>

http://www.jython.org/docs/whatis.html
Tom wrote:
> 
> I thought that what existed before was a python enterpreter written in Java.
> But this sounds like a Python compiler.  Is this something new?
> 
> Tom.
> 
> "Finn Bock" <bckfnn at worldonline.dk> wrote in message
> news:mailman.979852051.13723.python-list at python.org...
> >
> > I am happy to announce the release of Jython 2.0.
> >
> > Jython is a Java implementation of the Python programming
> > language.  It allows users to compile Python source code to
> > Java byte codes, and run the resulting bytecodes on any Java
> > Virtual Machine.  It is a very seamless and smooth
> > integration with Java:  from Python you have complete access
> > to all Java libraries, can build applets, can integrate with
> > Java beans, and can subclass Java classes in Python and vice
> > versa.  Like Python, and unlike Java, Jython can also be
> > used interactively:  just type some Jython code at the
> > prompt and see the results immediately.
> >
> > A java installer is available for download at the Jython website:
> >
> >     http://www.jython.org/
> >
> > Installation is started by running the installer class. Further
> > information and tips on installation is available at:
> >
> >     http://www.jython.org/install.html
> >
> > Jython 2.0 is feature compatible with Python 2.0 and among the
> > new feature are:
> >
> >   - Augmented assignment, e.g. x += 1
> >   - List comprehensions, e.g. [x**2 for x in range(10)]
> >   - Extended import statement, e.g. import Module as Name
> >   - Extended print statement, e.g. print >> file, "Hello"
> >
> >
> > A complete list of changes and differences are available here:
> >
> >   http://www.jython.org/NEWS.html
> >
> > Bugs can be reported to the bug manager on SourceForge:
> >
> >   http://sourceforge.net/bugs/?group_id=12867
> >
> > Cheers,
> > the jython-developers
> >


From dsh8290 at rit.edu  Tue Jan 30 18:15:14 2001
From: dsh8290 at rit.edu (D-Man)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 18:15:14 -0500
Subject: curly-brace-aphobic?
In-Reply-To: <95718r018s8@drn.newsguy.com>; from not.this@seebelow.org on Tue, Jan 30, 2001 at 10:30:51AM -0800
References: <3A74EBD6.3C87FD15@seebelow.org> <slrn97a9fu.7sf.clgonsal@keeshah.penguinpowered.com> <3A757FBE.E54C5ECD@seebelow.org> <mailman.980789494.4239.python-list@python.org> <slrn97c6bs.bjo.scarblac@pino.selwerd.nl> <mailman.980870616.378.python-list@python.org> <95718r018s8@drn.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <20010130181514.A23642@harmony.cs.rit.edu>

On Tue, Jan 30, 2001 at 10:30:51AM -0800, Grant Griffin wrote:
| In article <mailman.980870616.378.python-list at python.org>, D-Man says...
| >
| ...
| >I still maintain my postiion that a list is really a special case of a
| >dictionary, on a theoretical level.
| 

You snipped my next conclusion here.

[snip] 

| This last one is how I tend to think of it.  I _think of_ tuples as a special
| case of lists: "tuples are read-only lists".  Likewise, one can _think of_
| strings as special cases of lists: "strings are imutable lists that can
| contain only characters".

Like I said (and was snipped), at a practical level, I don't think of
lists as a special case dictionary.  I also dislike the "strings are
immutable" feature, but I understand that it can help optimization and
mutable strings are much less fun in C than other languages.  (I can
see why Guido et al wouldn't want to deal with mutable strings in the
interpreter, though Finn would have much less trouble with it in
Jython)  (no need to start a discussion here, I can deal with it :-))


If you wanted to implement a list as a dict, you could remove an item
from the middle and adjusting the indexes by having the remove()
function take all the higher indexes and switch the values, then
deleting the highest index from the list of keys.  Of course, using a
series of linked nodes is much easier and faster.  Nothing that really
bothers people developing applications, just those who want to think
of various ways to achieve the same result and then consider the
tradeoffs.

| 
| But if we try to generalize a relationship between dictionaries and lists, we
| find that we can make neither a special case of the other--at least without
| stretching it pretty far.
| 
| Given the "indexers" hierarchy at top, the Python rule seems to be "All indexers
| are indexed using square braces".  Those who find Python's bracing "consistent"
| evidently are evaluating "consistency" in terms of this rule.
| 
| However, the rule that I seem to want to apply is "All indexers are indexed
| using the style of brace used to bind them."  (If a certain style of brace is
| good enough to bind a variable, why isn't it good enough to _access_ a
| variable?)  That being said, it may not be possible (and it certainly isn't
| desirable) to index strings and tuples using this rule.

I think the purpose of the [] and the {} in list/dict construction is
syntactic sugar for a factory function (or a class ctor).  I can't
think of any other reason for them (and for the difference).  There
could be a function make_dict() that takes a series of 2-tuples with
the first element being the key and the second being the value, but I
think the {} is simpler to type ;-).

| 
| But I see no reason why curly braces could not be used for this purpose.
| 
| explict-is-better-than-implicit-ly y'rs,
| 
| =g2
| p.s.  Just for the record, I'm not recommending any change to Python--because
| the needs of backwards compatibility would undoubtedly lead to the dreaded "more
| than one way to do it" <wink>. I was just asking a question.  Thanks to all for
| the many kind answers.
| 

-D




From gregj at pobox.com  Tue Jan  2 04:58:29 2001
From: gregj at pobox.com (Greg Jorgensen)
Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2001 09:58:29 GMT
Subject: Error using sys.stdin.read()
References: <92rpf1$78r$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <9Dh46.219933$U46.6687840@news1.sttls1.wa.home.com>

IDLE connects stdin to PyShell.PyShell, and PyShell doesn't implement the
read() method. It does implement readline()... try it.

Your script will work if you run it directly instead of inside IDLE.


--
Greg Jorgensen
PDXperts
Portland, Oregon, USA
gregj at pobox.com


<curtissol at my-deja.com> wrote in message news:92rpf1$78r$1 at nnrp1.deja.com...
> Any attempt to use the attribute "read" as in:
>
> import sys
>     while 1:
>         next = sys.stdin.read()     # read a one-character string
>         if not next:                 # or an empty string at eof
>             break
>     #process "next"
>
> fails on the use of "sys.stdin.read()" with the message:
>
> "AttributeError: 'PyShell' instance has no attribute 'read' "
>
> I am using Python 2.0 on NT 4.5 on a PC. It's as if 'read' does not
> exist.





From root at rainerdeyke.com  Sun Jan  7 22:41:46 2001
From: root at rainerdeyke.com (Rainer Deyke)
Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2001 03:41:46 GMT
Subject: simple symbolic math in Python
References: <vE966.12210$K72.50241@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <_Fa66.8576$ge4.4902248@news2.rdc2.tx.home.com>

"Kragen Sitaker" <kragen at dnaco.net> wrote in message
news:vE966.12210$K72.50241 at e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com...
> I posted most of this to kragen-hacks
> <kragen-hacks-subscribe at kragen.dnaco.net> late last millennium.
>
> I'm running into a problem: I can overload unary minus, but I can't
> overload e.g. math.sin and math.cos, because they're not methods.  It
> would be really nice to have a way to do that.  I can create objects
> that act just like dictionaries or files, including working with almost
> all of the built-in functions, but it doesn't look like I can create
> objects that look just like numbers.

import math

class MyNumber:
  ...

old_sin = math.sin

def my_sin(n):
  if isinstance(n, MyNumber):
    ...
  else:
    return old_sin(n)

math.sin = my_sin


--
Rainer Deyke (root at rainerdeyke.com)
Shareware computer games           -           http://rainerdeyke.com
"In ihren Reihen zu stehen heisst unter Feinden zu kaempfen" - Abigor




From pearu at ioc.ee  Fri Jan 26 06:11:45 2001
From: pearu at ioc.ee (Pearu Peterson)
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 13:11:45 +0200
Subject: Hack request: rational numbers
In-Reply-To: <m3wvbjxs9h.fsf@atrus.jesus.cam.ac.uk>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0101251759070.28148-100000@kev.ioc.ee> <m3wvbjxs9h.fsf@atrus.jesus.cam.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0101261251120.7303-100000@kev.ioc.ee>

On 25 Jan 2001, Michael Hudson wrote:

> > is rather clumsy. Clearly, minimal representation of this rational number
> > is
> > 
> >     3/4
> > 
> > but in Python this expression has different meaning.
> 
> Here's an idea: subclass code.InteractiveConsole.  Use bytecodehacks
> to find bytecodes like
> 
> LOAD_CONST <integer1>
> LOAD_CONST <integer2>
> BINARY_DIVIDE
> 
> to
> 
> LOAD_GLOBAL "mpq"
> LOAD_CONST <integer1>
> LOAD_CONST <integer2>
> CALL_FUNCTION 2
> 
> This isn't actually very difficult, but I'm not going to do it.

And it will break other codes/modules where `3/4' is expected to return
`0'. And it will work only for interactive session, right?
So, I'll not going to do that either.


> > 3) What are changes that these hooks will be accepted to Python core?
> 
> Can't speak for the people whose opinions really count, but my guess: none.

It is rather disappointing estimation:(

And it makes me think that (some? most?) people want to keep
Python usage only in web/gui based applications rather than extending its
usage to scientific computing (both *numerical* and *symbolical*).

Sorry to bother you.


> > 4) Is anybody else working with builtin rational number support for
> > Python?
> 
> Maybe.  I suspect not enough to make a difference.  It's mooted that 
> 
> 1/2
> 
> will produce something other than "0" in Py3K, but I can't remember
> whether a rational or a floating point result seemed most likely last
> time this went around.

Though, I'll wait (hope) for Alex's PEP about this and I'll probably try
to implement `3r' hooks to Python myself (it's just too appeling to me;).

Regards,
	Pearu



From lisowski.tomasz at sssa.NOSPAM.com.pl  Wed Jan 31 01:42:42 2001
From: lisowski.tomasz at sssa.NOSPAM.com.pl (Tomasz Lisowski)
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 07:42:42 +0100
Subject: . Python 2.1 function attributes
References: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0101270135190.7677-100000@y.glue.umd.edu> <mailman.980593892.725.python-list@python.org> <$5A+ZwAGjtc6EwE0@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <Pine.GSO.4.21.0101270941160.3501-100000@y.glue.umd.edu> <mailman.980611052.20199.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <958c0n$gio$1@news.tpi.pl>

Uzytkownik "Thomas Wouters" <thomas at xs4all.net> napisal w wiadomosci
news:mailman.980611052.20199.python-list at python.org...
> On Sat, Jan 27, 2001 at 09:42:17AM -0500, Roy Katz wrote:
>
> > Didn't you feel it already?
> > The language was going to hell even before print>> was added.
>
> Change always ruins everything. Keyword arguments ?!? Who needs those.
Lets
> go back to Python 1.3.

Then try to imagine Tkinter app without keyword arguments :-)

Tomasz




From J.Jonkers at acriter.com  Wed Jan 24 05:26:30 2001
From: J.Jonkers at acriter.com (Johan Jonkers)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 11:26:30 +0100
Subject: thread
Message-ID: <3A6EADD6.11122913@acriter.com>

Hi!

At the company I work we use python 1.5.2 on Solaris. I made a python
script on my home computer running linux (same python version btw), but
when I tried it at work it couldn't find the thread module. I thought
that the thread module was a standard module? Am I wrong in this?

Johan


From mikael at isy.liu.se  Fri Jan 19 06:52:16 2001
From: mikael at isy.liu.se (Mikael Olofsson)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 12:52:16 +0100 (MET)
Subject: How to run script from interpreter?
In-Reply-To: <00ef01c081fd$375c2ab0$11260340@yin>
Message-ID: <XFMail.010119125216.mikael@isy.liu.se>

On 19-Jan-01 Dan Rolander wrote:
 >  This doesn't work for me. I know how to import and how to use the if
 >  __name__ trick, but how can I execute a script from the interactive Python
 >  interpreter? That is, can I load a script and have it run from inside the
 >  interpreter? (I'm sure this is easy I'm just not seeing it.)

Let's see... I think it was here somewhere... Ah, yes: In Python Library 
Reference, 2.3 Built-in Functions, at

  http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/built-in-funcs.html

execfile (file[, globals[, locals]]) 
     This function is similar to the exec statement, but parses a file 
     instead of a string. It is different from the import statement in 
     that it does not use the module administration -- it reads the file 
     unconditionally and does not create a new module.2.8 

     The arguments are a file name and two optional dictionaries. The 
     file is parsed and evaluated as a sequence of Python statements 
     (similarly to a module) using the globals and locals dictionaries
     as global and local namespace. If the locals dictionary is omitted 
     it defaults to the globals dictionary. If both dictionaries are 
     omitted, the expression is executed in the environment where 
     execfile() is called. The return value is None. 

HTH

/Mikael

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From i at on.ru  Sun Jan 14 11:41:53 2001
From: i at on.ru (i at on.ru)
Date: 14 Jan 2001 18:41:53 +0200
Subject: FREE http://4sansai.cjb.net  5518
Message-ID: <3a61d6d1@news.takas.lt>

http://4sansai.cjb.net
xwkggzdgixvrftfnplblmwnvfhuoksogoxkslkpsitctrhxnzsndflqxntiksjdmm



From erno-news at erno.iki.fi  Sun Jan 28 12:52:56 2001
From: erno-news at erno.iki.fi (Erno Kuusela)
Date: 28 Jan 2001 19:52:56 +0200
Subject: marshal doesn't work with "file-like" objects
References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010126135016.029c4d90@mail.mindspring.com> <mailman.980540325.4462.python-list@python.org> <94t1bi$m73$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <mailman.980557896.25345.python-list@python.org> <950ab5$2h2$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <ku4ryj5zt3.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>

In article <950ab5$2h2$1 at nnrp1.deja.com>, echuck at mindspring.com writes:

| In article <mailman.980557896.25345.python-list at python.org>,
|   Neil Schemenauer <nas at arctrix.com> wrote:
|| Won't cPickle work?

| Yes, but:

| 1. My benchmarks (which I don't have anymore) showed marshal to be MUCH
| faster than cPickle

did you try cPickle's binary mode? it is many times faster than
the default text mode at least on my machine.

  -- erno


From sheila at spamcop.net  Sat Jan 27 15:09:48 2001
From: sheila at spamcop.net (Sheila King)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 20:09:48 GMT
Subject: [Off topic] allowed to put Python material on the Web?
References: <3a730931.31998180@news.skynet.be> <3a731f6a.97406397@news-server.austin.rr.com>
Message-ID: <uha67tcesps7qivqs81vobgorl1kdvdm4c@4ax.com>

On Sat, 27 Jan 2001 19:26:26 GMT, jgraves3 at austin.rr.com (jay graves) wrote in
comp.lang.python in article <3a731f6a.97406397 at news-server.austin.rr.com>:

:On Sat, 27 Jan 2001 17:51:57 GMT, Daniel.Kinnaer at Advalvas.be (Daniel)
:wrote:
:
:>As a Python newbie, I've been collecting lots of questions and answers
:>from this newsgroup.  It contains stuff not readily found in the many
:>good FAQ from the net.
:>Before setting up a new site, I would like to ask if it is allowed to
:>put my collection of questions and answers from this newsgroup (which
:>helped me a lot) on my site,so everyone can enjoy/learn from it
:>without going to the d?j? palace.
:
:Something similar already exists.
:http://python.faqts.com

Yes, and here's another one:

http://www.lowerstandard.com/python/pythonsource.html
This one has been announced on the Python Tutor mailing list.

For myself, what I've started doing, is just collecting examples on my own
website for my own use. The examples that are useful to me may not be useful
to anyone else, and I don't try to make a site for anyone else. I just want
something that is organized, and a record for me to use.

For instance, I did something like this for some little Perl scripts I was
playing around with:
http://www.thinkspot.net/sheila/computers/perl.html

I haven't got my Python scripts up to date, though.

--
Sheila King
http://www.thinkspot.net/sheila/
http://www.k12groups.org/



From albert.brandl at lindeverlag.at  Fri Jan 26 04:13:50 2001
From: albert.brandl at lindeverlag.at (Albert Brandl)
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 10:13:50 +0100
Subject: Simple HTML template modules?
References: <3A711877.4C5B51AF@mail.com>
Message-ID: <94rev7$ol4$1@readme.inode.at>

Rayed Al-Rashed wrote:
> I am trying to build CGI programs using Python, and I searched for
> simple HTML templates modules but couldn't find any ... any ideas
> where I can find such module.

You should have a look at HTMLgen. This module provides a class
called TemplateDocument which can be used like this:

#! /usr/local/bin/python
# somescript.cgi

import HTMLgen

doc = HTMLgen.TemplateDocument("template1.html")
doc.substitutions = {"id": "55", "age": "17", "name": "Peter"}
print "content-type: text/html"
print
print str(doc)
#----------------------------------------

template1.html could e.g. be the following file:

<!-- template for use with HTMLgen.TemplateDocument -->
<!-- each variable contained in {...} is replaced with the -->
<!-- corresponding value in doc.substitutions -->

<html>
        <body>
        <table>
                <tr>
                        <td>ID</td>
                        <td>{id}</td>
                </tr>
                <tr>
                        <td>User</td>
                        <td>{name}</td>
                </tr>
                        <td>Age</td>
                        <td>{age}</td>
                </tr>

        </table>
        </body>
</html>

It might pay off to have a look at the other classes of
HTMLgen. You will find an awsome, object-oriented 
interface to many html elements which can speed up
the development enormously.

The documentation for HTMLgen 2.1 can be found at
http://starship.python.net/crew/friedrich/HTMLgen/html/document.html

There exists a newer version, HTMLgen 2.2.2 - have a look at the vaults of 
parnassus at http://www.vex.net/parnassus/

        Enjoy,

                Albert



From slhath at home.com  Wed Jan 24 17:04:22 2001
From: slhath at home.com (Scott Hathaway)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 22:04:22 GMT
Subject: beginner's python class in Dallas, TX
Message-ID: <GjIb6.30211$bb.767455@news1.rdc1.tx.home.com>

My company is sponsoring a beginner's Python training class in Richardson,
Tx on January 31st from 8:00 am to 4:00 pm.  If you are interested in
attending, the cost is $100 (a Python book will be included in this cost).
Please email me at the address below if you are interested.  If you would be
interested in future classes, please also let me know about that
possibility.

Thank You,

Scott Hathaway
InfoTrain Solutions, Inc.
hathaways at infotrain.com






From mal at lemburg.com  Thu Jan 11 06:41:38 2001
From: mal at lemburg.com (M.-A. Lemburg)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 12:41:38 +0100
Subject: mxTools (was Re: why no "do : until"?)
References: <31575A892FF6D1118F5800600846864D5B16CF@intrepid>
Message-ID: <3A5D9BF2.7C204661@lemburg.com>

Simon Brunning wrote:
> 
> > From: Max M?ller Rasmussen [SMTP:maxm at normik.dk]
> > From: Oleg Broytmann [mailto:phd at phd.pp.ru]
> > >   Anyone here has any doubts that at least mxDateTime simply MUST be in
> > >the Python core? :)
> > No that would be a great idea, but doesn't the license prevent that?
> 
> As far as I can see, mxDateTime doesn't have restrictions in its license -
> it's mxODBC which does.
> 
> Is this right, Marc?

Right.

But please note that I wouldn't really want mxDateTime to go into
the core: the reason is that the mx Extensions will soon be available
as three packages under a new top-level package name "mx" -- I wouldn't
want to rip mxDateTime out of that context.

BTW, mxODBC v2.0 will then no longer be free for commercial use. I put
a moderate license fee on it to at least produce some funding for mxODBC
and the other mx Extensions  -- the old mxODBC license just didn't
work out, so I had to take this step.
 
mxODBC will still remain free for non-commercial use, e.g. for personal
and non-profit organizations, and as before you get full source code
with it, so you still have all the advantages of being able to adapt
the code to your needs.

mxDateTime and most of the other tools will remain Open Source
software as before.

> *Both* of these are essential to me personally. I also use Marc's additional
> built-ins, but they are really just a nice to have. (*Very* nice, but still
> just nice.)
> 
> So, if this were a democracy, which it isn't, I'd vote for mxDateTime to
> definitely go in, for someone to think about the additional built-ins, and
> for mxODBC to stay separate.
> 
> As it is, though, it's a one-man-one-vote system. Guido is the man, he has
> the vote. So we'll just have to wait and see...
> 
> Cheers,
> Simon Brunning
> TriSystems Ltd.
> sbrunning at trisystems.co.uk
> 
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> The information in this email is confidential and may be legally privileged.
> It is intended solely for the addressee. Access to this email by anyone else
> is unauthorised. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure,
> copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in
> reliance on it, is prohibited and may be unlawful. TriSystems Ltd. cannot
> accept liability for statements made which are clearly the senders own.

-- 
Marc-Andre Lemburg
______________________________________________________________________
Company:                                        http://www.egenix.com/
Consulting:                                    http://www.lemburg.com/
Python Pages:                           http://www.lemburg.com/python/



From jeremy at alum.mit.edu  Wed Jan 17 18:02:05 2001
From: jeremy at alum.mit.edu (Jeremy Hylton)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 23:02:05 GMT
Subject: Securing passwords stored inside of a database field using Python
References: <NKh96.874$eI2.31689@NewsReader> <Pine.LNX.4.30.0101171749020.28607-100000@fep132.fep.ru> <mailman.979747044.9141.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <945897$pvo$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

There's more to securing passwords that just picking an encryption
algorithm -- and keyed hashes seem to be more common that encryption.
PKCS #5 describes one good way to encrypt and decrypt data using
passwords.  It's implemented in Pisces.

PKCS #5: http://www.rsasecurity.com/rsalabs/pkcs/pkcs-5/
Pisces: http://www.cnri.reston.va.us/software/pisces/

--
-- Jeremy Hylton, <http://www.python.org/~jeremy/>


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From jurgen.defurne at philips.com  Mon Jan 29 07:02:30 2001
From: jurgen.defurne at philips.com (jurgen.defurne at philips.com)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 13:02:30 +0100
Subject: xor operator?
Message-ID: <0056890020157356000002L962*@MHS>

I have indeed never met a language which had a boolean XOR (but some
have a binary XOR).

I did meet some cases where an action would be needed based upon
the exclusivity of two states, but I think it is better for the understanding
and maintenance of code when you say :

        if (not A and B) or (A and not B)

Jurgen




mwh21 at cam.ac.uk@SMTP at python.org on 26/01/2001 15:17:17
Sent by:	python-list-admin at python.org
To:	python-list at python.org@SMTP
cc:	 
Subject:	Re: xor operator?
Classification:	

Def P <def-p at usa.net> writes:

> I notice that there doesn't seem to be a boolean xor operator in
> Python. Does someone know the reasons behind this?

I suspect largely because C doesn't have one (do any reasonably
mainstream languages have one?  I can't think of any).  There was a
thread about this fairly recently that shouldn't be too hard to dig
up...

Cheers,
M.

--
  The ability to quote is a serviceable substitute for wit.
                                                -- W. Somerset Maugham
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list





From rturpin at my-deja.com  Mon Jan 15 09:51:37 2001
From: rturpin at my-deja.com (rturpin at my-deja.com)
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 14:51:37 GMT
Subject: Python 3000. Here we go again.
References: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0101142011080.14128-100000@y.glue.umd.edu>
Message-ID: <93v2pl$f14$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

Of course, those of us with some amount of production
code written in Python 1.x and 2.x have a very hard
desire for Python 3K: backward compatibility.

Russell


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http://www.deja.com/


From donn at u.washington.edu  Mon Jan 22 19:40:57 2001
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: 23 Jan 2001 00:40:57 GMT
Subject: How do I know all thrown exceptions of a function?
References: <mailman.980206644.31124.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <94ijup$otc$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>

Quoth "Delaney, Timothy" <tdelaney at avaya.com>:
...
| Here is my take on things:
|
| Four built-in exception classes, three of which form the basis for "trees"
| of exceptions:
|
| 	Exception
| 		type(Exception) == <type 'Exception'>
| 		used for "normal" exceptional circumstances - these
| 		need to be declared
|
| 		SilentException(Exception)
| 			type(SilentException) == <type 'SilentException'>
| 			used for things which should normally just pass
| 			through (such as index-out-of-bounds) - these don't
| 			need to be declared.
|
| 			UndeclaredException(SilentException)
| 				Raised when an undeclared Exception is
| raised
|
| 	Error
| 		type(Error) == <type 'Error'>
| 		used for "really bad" things which probably can't be
| 		recovered - these don't need to be declared
|
| A function needs to declare all the Exceptions it will raise. If a function
| raises an Exception it doesn't declare, instead an UndeclaredException is
| raised with the raised Exception as its data.
|
| SilentException is a subclass of Exception so you can continue to do
|
| try:
| except Exception:
|
| Things like index-out-of-bounds should be SilentException so they don't
| explicity need to be declared in just about every function around.
|
| There would be no requirement to catch any type of exception, whether
| declared or not.
|
| I think this covers all worries with backwards compatibility, whilst moving
| towards a well-defined exception system.

Could you explain more about what that does for you?

I don't understand "things which should normally pass through (such
as index-out-of-bounds)".  Pass through what?  When you later say
"so they don't need to be declared in just about every function around",
does that account for the whole reason behind SilentException?

I don't understand the distinction between Exception and Error.
Would you be able to catch Error the same as Exception?  If not,
what happens?  If you can catch them the same as Exception, then
it's just another category invented so you won't have to declare
the exception?

	Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu


From bernard604 at my-deja.com  Tue Jan 30 15:59:28 2001
From: bernard604 at my-deja.com (bernard604 at my-deja.com)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 20:59:28 GMT
Subject: arbitrary lists to map
Message-ID: <9579v9$osi$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

Is there any way that an arbitrary number of lists (or sequences) can
be assigned to the sequence parameter of the map(func, sequence)
function.

D. Bernard


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From dsh8290 at rit.edu  Fri Jan 19 13:25:49 2001
From: dsh8290 at rit.edu (D-Man)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 13:25:49 -0500
Subject: PSU uses emacs?
In-Reply-To: <949rii0a76@news1.newsguy.com>; from aleaxit@yahoo.com on Fri, Jan 19, 2001 at 05:55:45PM +0100
References: <948e4b$hm0$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <948fvj$oq1$1@panix6.panix.com> <3A67CDC3.7EACB07D@Lugoj.Com> <9490t009on@news2.newsguy.com> <3a685ef2.3403798@reading.news.pipex.net> <949rii0a76@news1.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <20010119132549.K4478@harmony.cs.rit.edu>

On Fri, Jan 19, 2001 at 05:55:45PM +0100, Alex Martelli wrote:
| 
| > Any other tips for using gvim with Python?
| 
| Use blank lines cleverly to delimit logical blocks, so { and } are
| useful movement-commands -- also increases readability.  Would be
| nice to have movement commands based on indent-levels, but, to be
| quite honest with you, I've never bothered programming them...

I'd like this too.  In C/C++/Java it is nice to type "%" to jump
between begin and end of blocks.

| (shame's about to engulf me...).  I like :set expandtab always
| on -- no tab/space confusion; I also like :set ff unix, so that my
| scripts can be shared between Win and Unix machines (and why
| waste one byte per line to tell a 'carriage' that is not there
| to 'return' [to where?]...?!-).

Exactly.  DOS/Windows never did operate from a teletype did it?  I
suppose no one will ever figure out why a system that began on the
teletype (Unix) doesn't use the extra character and a system that
didn't (DOS/Windows) does.

| 
| Oh, and the key tip for gvim under Win98 - the quoting character
| is NOT control-V (they used that for 'paste' to follow Win
| conventions) -- it's control-Q instead.  So to remove those
| silly control-M (carriage-return) that using some other editor
| may have inserted, :%s/^Q^M// is what one types (with ^ to mean
                      ^

What does the % mean here?  I usually use :g/^V^M/s/// (working on NT
or in cygwin's console vim).

-D


PS.  Alex: I'll be at my other job tonight,  I'll check what version
of AIX they use.  The terminals are 315x I think.  (from the "Python
in Industry" thread)  Your info about IBM's history was interesting.




From gradha at iname.com  Mon Jan 15 15:44:04 2001
From: gradha at iname.com (gradha at iname.com)
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 21:44:04 +0100
Subject: Python converts my 8-bit strings
References: <0h6q39.frl.ln@127.0.0.1> <6or86.6205$Qb7.904800@newsb.telia.net>
Message-ID: <kenv39.m92.ln@127.0.0.1>

Fredrik Lundh <fredrik at effbot.org> wrote:
> gradha at iname.com wrote:
>> When I for example fed string.split with an 8 bit string, all the 8 bit
>> characters get converted into what looks like utf-8 codes.

> you're probably confusing the string escaping done by
> the "repr" function with utf-8 encoding.

Exactly. Thanks for the info (in fact, I was going to ask shortly what was
that repr thing...).

--

 Grzegorz Adam Hankiewicz   gradha at iname.com - http://gradha.infierno.org
 Other web pages:  http://glub.ehu.es/  -  http://welcome.to/gogosoftware/


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Wed Jan 17 06:31:57 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 12:31:57 +0100
Subject: Problem with a tuple - newbie ignorance
References: <3A633531.9010303@yale.edu> <3A635C32.9E5285C5@yale.edu> <i1k76t8g9dr5fft0v0phcr98hb6qkdjbaq@4ax.com> <slrn968fk9.g0f.scarblac@pino.selwerd.nl> <nk096.27$eI2.11999@ruti.visi.com> <3A64D9E8.B1D52E1E@mail.mcg.edu>
Message-ID: <943vu402jit@news2.newsguy.com>

"Keith F. Woeltje" <kwoeltje at mail.mcg.edu> wrote in message
news:3A64D9E8.B1D52E1E at mail.mcg.edu...
> Normal (forward) slashes won't however work in a command prompt window
> in Win2000.
> Does the python interpreter make the change "magically" (like it does
> the end of line marker)?

Not really -- it's actually the (Microsoft) runtime libraries
that _underlie_ the interpreter (and every other C or C++ program
that is compiled/linked with Microsoft Visual C++) that accept
forward slashes or backward ones indifferently in file-paths
(just as it's the same Microsoft runtime libraries that perform
any line end translation that may be needed).

But I've never seen any C or C++ compiler for Windows (or, earlier,
DOS) that would fail to provide this little convenience (I _think_,
but I'm not sure I recall correctly, that DOS would accept forward
slashes even at the system-call [interrupt] level, while the Win32
APIs are not so forgiving).

The command-line processors have long been the worst-crippled
parts of MS operating systems (which IS saying something, given
the crippledness level of other parts thereof:-).


Alex







From phd at phd.pp.ru  Thu Jan 25 07:36:52 2001
From: phd at phd.pp.ru (Oleg Broytmann)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 15:36:52 +0300 (MSK)
Subject: urllib.urlretrieve("http://free.bsdshell.net/")
In-Reply-To: <94oiss$1hm2$1@news1.simtel.ru>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0101251533060.22776-100000@fep132.fep.ru>

Thanks.

   While we were trying to resolve the issue, the site died and replaced
by some French site. So it is too late to do experiments.
   BTW urllib now happily connects to it.

   Thanks to all who helped!

On Thu, 25 Jan 2001, Alexander Semenov wrote:
> Try to run 'telnet yoursite', then blindly type 'GET /index.html' and
> press Enter twice.

GET / HTTP/1.0
Host: yoursite:80

   I'd recommend to use netcat utility for this:

echo -e "GET / HTTP/1.0\nHost: yoursite:80\n\n" | nc yoursite 80 >log

Oleg.
----
     Oleg Broytmann            http://phd.pp.ru/            phd at phd.pp.ru
           Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN.




From ryu-jin at bigfoot.com  Mon Jan 15 11:35:49 2001
From: ryu-jin at bigfoot.com (Ryujin)
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 16:35:49 GMT
Subject: Python and ODBC?
References: <93tfo0$12p$1@ryu.it> <93upsf02pvl@news1.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <93v276$c0k$1@ryu.it>

In article <93upsf02pvl at news1.newsguy.com>, "Alex Martelli"
<aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote:


thx for your help

matte
> "Ryujin" <ryu-jin at bigfoot.com> wrote in message
> news:93tfo0$12p$1 at ryu.it...
>> Which is the best solution to work with python and a SQL database under
> Windows?
> 
> So much depends on what _scale_ you need to work...!  Multi-user, or
> single?  Do you need transactions, stored procedures/triggers, etc? Even
> typical database size is a factor.
> 
> For really small-scale needs, for example, Gadfly has interesting
> characteristics -- you might want to look into it -- but it is not
> designed to scale up to intensive multi-user accesses or really huge
> databases.
> 
> So, hard to give a 100% answer, but, if you're Windows-only, you might
> want to try MSDE, the freely-redistributable version of SQL Server
> (shorn of the various graphical front-ends &c); you can download and
> use/redistribute it freely if you have a license for Microsoft Studio or
> Office Developer.  It scales well up to 5 simultaneous users, and has
> all the trimmings you'd expect from a professional RDBMS, such as
> transactions, stored-procedures, etc, etc.  If you don't care about
> redistribution, you can also download and use (but not redistribute) SQL
> Server Developer Edition, which is the same thing plus the graphical
> aids for DB administration/development/debugging.
> 
> It does have an upper boundary of 2 gigabytes per database -- which was
> not a problem for us, but might be in other applications.
> 
> I have not tried out the versions of those related to SQL Server 2000,
> only the ones related to SQL Server 7 (the previous release), which were
> still around for download on the MS site a couple months ago
> (sorry, don't have the URL and don't know if they're still there, as
> I found out the same bits also were on our MSDN Universal subscription
> CDROM's, so I saved downloading the big packs) -- in any case, I have no
> reason to doubt that SQL Server 2000 is at least as good (but I only did
> a few tests on that myself, and not on the MSDE-equivalents).
> 
>> I mean which module do I have to install on Python 2.0?
> 
> That's part of what I like re MSDE -- you can talk to it directly from
> Python via ADO and ADOX (the client-side parts of the MSDAC, which is
> also freely downloadable/redistributable), and that turns out to be VERY
> fast as well as quite convenient.  It may be more so in our case since
> we don't _only_ use Python to talk to those DB's; ADO/ADOX can be
> accessed equally well from a great variety of programming/scripting
> languages.
> 
> Really, the only serious downside I can see is the very strong Microsoft
> lock-in that is implicit in all of this.  Since our app was
> MS-platforms-only anyway for another variety of reason, I chose MSDE
> with a perfectly clear conscience.  If I had to avoid platform lock-ins,
> and still get transactions and stored procedures
> (each of those being a real 'must' for us), then, I dunno -- maybe
> Interbase, now open-source, has those, but I don't really know much
> about it; maybe Postgres (again, no first-hand experience).
> 
> 
>> What about under Linux? I'm trying to install mxODBC module with MySQL
>> db on a Linuxppc box.
> 
> I'll pass on this one, having no experience with MySQL (I don't even
> know if it supports transactions and stored procedures!).  I do know
> it's very popular, so I guess one can't go TOO far wrong with it.
> 
> 
> Alex
> 
> 
> 


-- 
---------------------------------------
Memelli Matteo					
Could u imagine a world without Windoz?	 
ryu-jin at bigfoot.com			 
---------------------------------------



From jurgen.defurne at philips.com  Wed Jan 31 06:39:20 2001
From: jurgen.defurne at philips.com (jurgen.defurne at philips.com)
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 12:39:20 +0100
Subject: Joining lists
Message-ID: <0056900015556676000002L062*@MHS>

Hello, list members,

Is there a simple way of joining two list to form only one list, like :

[1, 5, 6, 4] <join operation> [4, 6, 7] -> [1, 5, 6, 4, 4, 6, 7]

Thanks,

Jurgen


From cfelling at iae.nl  Mon Jan  8 17:01:28 2001
From: cfelling at iae.nl (Carel Fellinger)
Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2001 22:01:28 GMT
Subject: new enum idiom
References: <G6qzLy.6Fo@world.std.com> <938jmh$919$1@animus.fel.iae.nl> <3A58B9C0.9F2A5CC0@collins.rockwell.com> <93an8v02d2n@news1.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <93dde1$8d2$1@animus.fel.iae.nl>

Alex Martelli <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote:
...
> This assumes a non-string argument (typically an integer, but that's
> not checked here) is meant to set the value to be named by the
> string-argument immediately *following* it -- a substantial
> simplification.  So substantial, that if one
...
> Needing to explicitly set values in an enum is rare enough, that it
> would seem fully acceptable to me to place the explicit values right
> _before_ their names in those rare cases, using the much-simpler
> code above.  Viva simplicity...!-)

Simplicity of implementation, yes.  But is this what one would expect?
I think all the languages I know that provide an enumaration method
that allows for changing the count midway spell it the other way
around, first the name then the value.  So I strongly argue that in
this particular case you better invest a little more in the coding of
this enum class to prevent all those easy slip of the keys in the use
of it, especially since its use is so rare.  Arguely an even better
approach would be to have such new counting points be spelled as
tuples; a little more eye-catching and simplifying the code even
further:)


   def enum(*args):
       class Enum: pass
       curval = 0
       for arg in args:
   	   if type(arg)==type(()):
   	       arg, curval = arg
   	   setattr(Enum, arg, curval)
   	   curval += 1
       return Enum
   
   
   MidiEvent = enum("NOTE_ON", ("NOTE_OFF", 2), "POLYPHONIC_KEY_PRESSURE"
        # dozens and dozens more...
        )
 

-- 
groetjes, carel


From johnvert at my-deja.com  Mon Jan 22 18:24:07 2001
From: johnvert at my-deja.com (johnvert at my-deja.com)
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 23:24:07 GMT
Subject: Replacing control characters.
Message-ID: <94ifec$ggt$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

Hi,

I want to replace actual Ctrl keys that are in files.  For example, I
saved in Netscape (Linux) an HTML file and when I open it in a text
editor there are a bunch of ^M characters around (probably because the
file was processed on Windows, which uses a different line ending for
textfiles--right?).  I want to remove all of these characters, but since
it's not an actual caret (^) and a letter M, but the *Ctrl* character
C-M I don't know how to refer to them in a regexp.  How can I?  Also,
what would be the most efficient way to do this in Python (e.g. use
regexp functions to maybe module string will do?)

Thanks,
  -- John


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http://www.deja.com/


From nas at arctrix.com  Wed Jan 24 12:27:30 2001
From: nas at arctrix.com (Neil Schemenauer)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 09:27:30 -0800
Subject: The fundamentals...
In-Reply-To: <20010124085846.A32572@glacier.fnational.com>; from nas@arctrix.com on Wed, Jan 24, 2001 at 08:58:46AM -0800
References: <F8Jb6.30683$pp2.2619941@news3.cableinet.net> <20010124085846.A32572@glacier.fnational.com>
Message-ID: <20010124092730.A32678@glacier.fnational.com>

On Wed, Jan 24, 2001 at 08:58:46AM -0800, Neil Schemenauer wrote:
> So you can do:
> 
>     boo = string.replace(". ", "\n")

That should be:

      boo = string.replace(boo, ". ", "\n")
 



From dnew at san.rr.com  Tue Jan 16 20:58:22 2001
From: dnew at san.rr.com (Darren New)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 01:58:22 GMT
Subject: python compiled to native in less than a year?
References: <mailman.979575676.22737.python-list@python.org> <GqH86.6041$J%.605518@news.flash.net> <G9K86.60439$eB2.5067059@news.infostrada.it> <n7vv39.r1f.ln@demonseed.net> <941koq077o@news1.newsguy.com> <Td596.1181$DI.17855@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <3A64FC3F.CC208398@san.rr.com>

Steve Holden wrote:
> patent applications to fail onthe grounds of "prior art". Apparently Arthur
> C. Clark described the geosynchronous satellite in concept in the British
> magazine "Wireless World", and this was enough to ensure that he was refused
> a patent on it later.

Uh, no. That was because you must "reduce a patent to art" or some such
phrase that basically means you actually have to do it, not just describe
how. Since at the time there was no way of launching satellites, there was
no way to reduce it to art.

-- 
Darren New / Senior MTS & Free Radical / Invisible Worlds Inc.
San Diego, CA, USA (PST).  Cryptokeys on demand.
"It says this wine has syphilis."
               "I think that's pronounced `sulphates'."


From MarkH at ActiveState.com  Tue Jan 30 17:36:10 2001
From: MarkH at ActiveState.com (Mark Hammond)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 22:36:10 GMT
Subject: Fatal Python error: Interpreter not initialized (version mismatch?) 
References: <zlDd6.177240$f36.6941177@news20.bellglobal.com> <cOFd6.13572$Pm2.265491@news20.bellglobal.com>
Message-ID: <3A7740D1.3070007@ActiveState.com>

Dan Parisien wrote:

> Dan Parisien wrote:
> 
> I have more info. It is a thread problem. The program is a socket server 
> with a custom crypto module. I launch a thread to start the main loop to 


This is pretty complicated!  The best I can do is point you at the 
CEnterLeavePython class in the Win32 extensions.  Check out 
pywintypesmodule.cpp and pywintypes.h - these can be accessed via CVS - 
instructions at http://starship.python.net/crew/mhammond/cvs.html

This is obviously windows only, and will have some trouble porting to 
Linux due to the lack of portable Thread Local Storage (TLS).  The 
PyXPCOM extensions have a more portable implementation, but it uses the 
Netscape Portable Runtime (NSPR) for TLS, so probably isnt what you want.

Hope this helps...

Mark.



From donn at u.washington.edu  Thu Jan  4 16:53:07 2001
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: 4 Jan 2001 21:53:07 GMT
Subject: Setting environment for current shell
References: <932f4d$n0r$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <UT456.8358$4c.721130@ruti.visi.com>
Message-ID: <932rc3$ikm$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>

Quoth grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards):
| In article <932f4d$n0r$1 at nnrp1.deja.com>, bragib at my-deja.com wrote:
|
|> How do you set an environment for the shell you are running python in.
|> os.system() spawns its own shell.  I would like to gain access to the
|> parent shell.
|
| You can't.   You can only modify the current environment not
| your parent process's.

Right, and if you want to modify that current environment, the
"os" module exports an "environ" object that behave like a dict.

   import os
   os.environ['HI'] = 'Hi'
   os.system('printenv HI')

The same thing does not work with the posix module, though it has
a similar environ object;  there's extra stuff built into the os
version, that pushes changes into the environment propagated by
system() et al.

You can also supply a complete environment, as a dict, in the 3rd
parameter to posix.execve().

	Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu


From etienne at alias.it  Thu Jan 18 11:31:07 2001
From: etienne at alias.it (etienne at alias.it)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 16:31:07 GMT
Subject: Garbage collector - please Help !!
Message-ID: <9475ob$c6v$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

hi everybody,

I'm developping on a Macintosh platform a python based project with a C++
GUI.

The GUI is the application, calls to python are ambedded in the C++ code
with a proper GUI API interface.

I'm running into problems with
Python memory management.The set of python functions I run, is embedded
into a C GUI on the Macintosh. Since the interpreter does *NOT
DEALLOCATES* memory when I release PyObjects used either by the gui and
the interpreter, I was
supposing that it was my fault in increffing and decreffing objects.
I've deeply investigated into the object reference counts,
guessing I was coding wrong somewhere.Now I'm sure the C GUI increffs and
(most important) decreffs PyObjects properly.
The result is that the Python Interpreter sucks all the application
memory causing the application to crash (exit).
*BUT* I performed the following tests:
1 -  I've run my python code from the python ide (notice: same code
without the C embedding api).Result: It sucks all the memory allocated by
the python ide, causing it to except a Memory error;
2- I've run my python code on a Linux OS.Result: It worked perfectly,
deallocating memory as espected.

This convinced me that it is due to the Python garbage collector, is
this correct?

Is there a way to force the PythonCore garbage collector to deallocate
memory when
objects are disposed??
There's a path you can suggest for further investigation??
I'm using PythonCore 1.5.2, Is there any resonable chance that Python
2.0 will do a better job?

thanks in advance
etienne


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From LangaK at discoveryhealth.co.za  Wed Jan 10 06:54:29 2001
From: LangaK at discoveryhealth.co.za (Langa Kentane)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 13:54:29 +0200
Subject: creating executables
Message-ID: <A69BC9CA4B39D411BF2200105A45B45B075B8BF6@dhexchange.discoveryhealth.co.za>

Greetings.
I am new to python and I can recall, of the many sites that I have visited,
I think one of the tutorials that I read mentioned that it is possible to
create executables for python.

I want to create an application that will run without needing the
interpreter.

Thanks in advance

__________________________________________________________
Langa Kentane		| TEL: (011) 290 3218
Security Administrator	| Cell: 082 606 1515
DISCOVERY HEALTH		| http://www.discoveryhealth.co.za
__________________________________________________________________




From cfelling at iae.nl  Thu Jan 25 15:15:22 2001
From: cfelling at iae.nl (Carel Fellinger)
Date: 25 Jan 2001 21:15:22 +0100
Subject: python-2.1 function attributes
References: <ul3snm8dfae.fsf@smaug.fsl.noaa.gov> <m3n1cgzvpj.fsf@atrus.jesus.cam.ac.uk> <ul3ofwvbl1d.fsf@smaug.fsl.noaa.gov>
Message-ID: <94q1gq$5u0$1@animus.fel.iae.nl>

Mike Romberg <romberg at smaug.fsl.noaa.gov> wrote:
>>>>>> " " == Michael Hudson <mwh21 at cam.ac.uk> writes:

>      > I suspect if you can come up with a decent syntax, it will go
>      > in.  I can't though.  Any ideas?

>   Well... I don't know if this qualifies as decent.  But I'll put it
> out there.  The thought I have is that perhaps default attributes
> could be handled like variable/keyword arguments.  This would have the
> nice feature of moving 'em out of the function body.  I suppose we
> could use '***' to indicate that the named argument is really an
> attribute which the given value.  Something like this:

> def spam(a, ***attr1='val1', ***attr2='val2'):
>     pass

looks very promissing, better then what I came up with:)
The only nit-pit being that one might expect to be able to refer to
attr1 and attr2 in the function body, and perhaps one should.
And the second more serious objection being that one might think it's
possible to supply values at function call:(
-- 
groetjes, carel


From tinu at email.ch  Mon Jan  8 02:27:21 2001
From: tinu at email.ch (tinu at email.ch)
Date: 08 Jan 2001 08:27:21 +0100
Subject: problem with numpy
References: <3A56048D.1D6A4737@cpsc.ucalgary.ca>
Message-ID: <yfm1yueqzae.fsf@collet.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-shoot-me>

Your problem is not a bug in Numeric, but a common mistake: 
You divide by an integer (integer array in your case), which gives you integer
division (the DIV operator in some Languages). 

Invoke all arrays explicitly as Float/Double, i.e.

    y = Numeric.zeros( x.shape, 'f' )        # output array
or  y = Numeric.zeros( x.shape, 'd' )        # output array
or  y = Numeric.zeros( x.shape, Numeric.Float ) # output array

and your result looks more realistic.

Don't-let-you-fool-by-implicit-type-definitons-ly

Martin


From cpr at emsoftware.com  Thu Jan 18 11:46:01 2001
From: cpr at emsoftware.com (Chris Ryland)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 16:46:01 GMT
Subject: interesting bound-built-in-method technique
Message-ID: <9476k6$d55$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

Reading the Quixote sources taught me an interesting little "hack"
using bound-built-in methods:

>>> m = {'foo': 1, 'bar': 0}.has_key
>>> m('foo')
1
>>> m('bar')
0

Is this a common idiom in Python? Very clever for turning a dictionary
lookup into a functional form.

Are there other clever but generally obscure idia? (Idioms? ;-)
--
Chris Ryland * Em Software, Inc. * www.emsoftware.com


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From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Jan  4 01:05:04 2001
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 01:05:04 -0500
Subject: why no "do : until"?
References: <92jj3j$ff7$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <92m9pm$d19$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <B3z36.122$9s1.18804@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com> <3A4EC5B1.8912E571@engcorp.com> <x8G36.156$9s1.31209@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com> <3A4F4B4D.ECD6B172@engcorp.com> <92v7g502oh4@news2.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <3A541290.DBC66A99@engcorp.com>

Alex Martelli wrote:
> 
> "Peter Hansen" <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:
>     [snip]
> > I can see your point (remarkable, given this thread, isn't it? :-).  I
> > guess I consider the "block" to be everything except the code that allows
> > entry into the block.  
> 
> So what about:
>     try:
>         <suite1>
>     except something:
>         <suite2>
> and so on?  Would you like it better if the 'except' was indented?  It's
> NOT, after all, 'code that allows entry' in the "block" (overall try/except
> statement).

I _do_ consider it to be 'code that allows entry' into the block.  After 
all, there are _two_ blocks here, nested inside a single outer block:

try:
    block1
except:
    block2

To me, a block is a set of statements which are indivisibly executed 
when unexceptional operation occurs (within the block).  That is, 
assuming no exceptions occur, all statements within block1 execute.  
After a possible exception occurs, all statements in block2 execute.
(Don't bother taking that definition too literally.  I understand
the possibly of a return in the middle of the code, etc.  It's the
spirit of this definition I want to communicate, not the letter. :)

These two blocks are effectively just 'sub-blocks' of whatever block
of code contains the whole 'try/except' statement, which may or
may not have preceeding and following statements.

So no, I most definitely would have trouble if the 'except' statement
were to be indented, since it is _not_ part of the <suite1> block
in the 'try' portion of the code.

The graphical examination of the three brace/indentation styles in 
Code Complete by McCarthy is, in my opinion, an excellent way of
comparing the alternatives.  I can't imagine anyone feeling 
wholly comfortable with the traditional K&R style after reading
that section.  I was extremely happy to discover, in my first
moments looking at Python code, that the indentation-based  
syntax of Python exactly maps to the style I've used for so long
and which McCarthy argues is superior.


From aotto2 at my-deja.com  Tue Jan  9 02:36:00 2001
From: aotto2 at my-deja.com (aotto2 at my-deja.com)
Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2001 07:36:00 GMT
Subject: CO-process
References: <93a535$n76$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <_2666.240898$U46.7569402@news1.sttls1.wa.home.com> <4i666.240905$U46.7570799@news1.sttls1.wa.home.com> <93bp9f$v1h$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <R5l66.242504$U46.7686033@news1.sttls1.wa.home.com>
Message-ID: <93ef11$5ej$1@nnrp1.deja.com>


Hi,


> >
> > > heavyweight for many of the things you'd want to use .net for.
> >
> >   1) the solution for MqSeries has only 20 KB wich isn't
heavyweight.
>
> I was thinking more of IPC time than memory use.

  In fact the CO-Process architecture is in most cases faster,
  because you write the CO-Process in the language who is fit best
  to the problem and you don't have to step into , for example,
  TCL details.

  If you just take MqCon.

   MqGet that is the listener of MqSeries wand ill be mostley called
   in some kind of while loop to wait for messages.
     1) How TCL event handling works with the MqSeries while loop
        if both are running in the same process ?
        You have to fit both together which mean this is a very
        terrible work and the solution will be definit slower
        than a CO-Process
     2) In fact if you really step down real world problem's
        and start thinking in CO-Process like manner you find
        out that in most cases the transport of the JOB through
        STDIN to the CO-Process is not the *time* problem.
     3) There are some cases which will most benefit from Free.NET
         - message technology ( MqSeries,... )
         - database connection ( sybase, oracle, db++ .. )
         - gui programming
         and a lot more ...
>
> >   2) One CO-Process is used to manage one "task" ( DB, Communication
> >      GUI-Interface, Appl-Server, ...) there is no need to write
> >      one task in more than one language, the benefit is that you
> >      can choose the right language for the task, and the clear
> >      and easy interface between the tasks
>
> That was my impression. As I wrote before, this is fine for what it
> is, but does not match up feature-by-feature for what .net is offering
> (on paper, anyway).
>

 you should not forget the Microsoft .net is just a paper
 and Free.NET you can download this is in fact a huge difference.
 Free.NET offers you a technology which is *easy* to understand
 *easy* to use and able to handle *multi* language needs, this is real
 a big step in the right direction without even learning 1000's of
 interface procedures, subroutiens, classes. If you just look to
 tcl, perl and python everybody tries to write his own DB, GUI, ..
 interface and everybody have to update his interface with every
 new (language)release comming out. Which is an big waste on man-
 power and a big waste on future. If you look to MqCon a perl guy
 will be able to write an perl interface in less than 3 days and
 this interface will not be changeed with every (language)release.


mfg

  aotto :)



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From steve_evans at my-deja.com  Mon Jan  8 11:04:04 2001
From: steve_evans at my-deja.com (steve_evans at my-deja.com)
Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2001 16:04:04 GMT
Subject: Problem importing dll module
Message-ID: <93code$niu$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

Hello,

I am having a problem importing a C dll. If I run python and import
the module it works fine. However if I run a test harness python
script that imports a module that several levels of importing later
imports the problem module it fails with this error:

Traceback (innermost last):  File "test.py", line 8, in ?  import CTR  File
"/users/stevee/hotstage/cmgui/source/ctf2cmds\CTR.py", line 5, in ?  import
CMDdv_s  File "D:/users/stevee/hotstage/cmgui/source/cmds/packs\CMDdv_s.py",
line 5, in ?  import CMDbusList  File
"D:/users/stevee/hotstage/cmgui/source/cmds/packs\CMDbusList.py", line 5, in
?

[snip bulk of traceback]

  import CMDpinOrderGroupList  File
"D:/users/stevee/hotstage/cmgui/source/cmds/packs\CMDpinOrderGroupList.py",
line 5, in ?  import CMDpinOrderGroup  File
"D:/users/stevee/hotstage/cmgui/source/cmds/packs\CMDpinOrderGroup.py", line
7, in ?  import CMDpinRefList  File
"D:/users/stevee/hotstage/cmgui/source/cmds/packs\CMDpinRefList.py", line 4,
in ?  import C_CMDpinRefList ImportError: DLL load failed: A dynamic link
library (DLL) initialization routine failed. My first thought was that I was
running out of memory, but that is not happening.

The modules and test harness work fine on both Solaris and Hp-UX

Steve


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From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Jan  4 20:54:02 2001
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 20:54:02 -0500
Subject: why no "do : until"?
References: <92jj3j$ff7$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <92m9pm$d19$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <B3z36.122$9s1.18804@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com> <3A4EC5B1.8912E571@engcorp.com> <x8G36.156$9s1.31209@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com> <3A4F4B4D.ECD6B172@engcorp.com> <92v7g502oh4@news2.newsguy.com> <3A541290.DBC66A99@engcorp.com> <931ejk02cjt@news2.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <3A55293A.36B4152C@engcorp.com>

Alex Martelli wrote:
> 
> "Peter Hansen" <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:
> > Alex Martelli wrote:
> > >
> > > So what about:
> > >     try:
> > >         <suite1>
> > >     except something:
> > >         <suite2>
> > > and so on?  Would you like it better if the 'except' was indented?  It's
> > > NOT, after all, 'code that allows entry' in the "block" (overall try/except
> > > statement).
> >
> > I _do_ consider it to be 'code that allows entry' into the block.  After
> > all, there are _two_ blocks here, nested inside a single outer block:
> >
> > try:
> >     block1
> > except:
> >     block2
> 
> And what is the alleged difference with:
> 
>     while <condition1>:
>         <suite1>
>         if <condition2>: break
>         <suite2>
> 
> ???  Here, too, we have two 'blocks' (suites), nested into a single
> loop.

I may be changing my claimed definition of a block, but not what
I meant in the first place... try this: "a block is a sequence of
statements all at the same (indentation) level, uninterrupted by 
statements of a higher level."

In other words, the 'try/except' consists of one outer block with
a single 'compound' statement which contains within it two "subblocks"
(nested blocks at a lower indentation level).

The while/if/break consists of a total of three blocks: the outer
one containing only the 'while' statement, the contained block which
is always present after a while statement, and the even-lower-level
block that is nested under the 'if' statement.  In other words,
I consider <suite1>, the 'if', and the <suite2> statements all 
to be part of the same block (since they're at the same 'level'), 
which is the single block that contains the code within a 'while' 
statement.

(Peter wrote:)
> > To me, a block is a set of statements which are indivisibly executed
> > when unexceptional operation occurs (within the block).  That is,
> > assuming no exceptions occur, all statements within block1 execute.
> > After a possible exception occurs, all statements in block2 execute.

Yes, I definitely wrote a poor description of what was in my mind.
Scratch the immediately above paragraph entirely.

(Alex wrote:)
> But 'the devil is in the details'!  A 'basic block' as normally
> considered by a compiler *does* need to consider conditional
> breaks, continues, returns as terminating the block.

Then clearly the definition of 'block' in the context of compilers
is unrelated to the definition of 'block' in my mind and in my
indentation style in C.

> I still fail to see how you conceptualize a while/if...break as so
> drastically different from an if/else, try/except, and so on.  I see

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to state that the two were in any way 
different, and I don't believe they are.  'if/else' consists of three
blocks (two nested ones inside an outer one).  The
'try/except' is identical.  The 'while/if/break' is as I described
above. 

> it as just syntax sugar, determined by historical accident, for
> Knuth's loop/while statement:
>     loop <condition1>:
>         <suite1>
>     while <condition2>:
>         <suite2>
> and consider the Python-enforced indentation of its spelling of
> 'while <condition2>:' (which is "if not <condition2>: break":-)
> to be a minor annoyance.

To tell you the truth, I hadn't examined the above structure in
detail before now.  If it is really intended to be identical
to the 'while/if/break' structure, then I have to say I think it's
really, really ugly, at least when written the way you have above.
To me the entire content of the 'loop' statement would have to
be considered a _single_ block, which to me would require the
indentation of the 'while <condition2>' part to be indented
along with everything else.  Only 'loop' could be outdented.

Without spending more time examining Knuth's structure and
figuring out the implications, I can only say I'm very happy
with 'while/if/break' in general, and especially in comparison
to the Knuth alternative.  I have no idea whether this makes
my technique completely inconsistent in the face of this
theoretical structure, but I find the outdented 'while'
in the above completely violates my ideas of propriety! :)

> ... let me assure you that I'm perfectly familiar
> with McCarthy (and many, MANY other style books:-) ...

(My bad: someone else mentioned Steve McConnell and it
was in fact he, not Jim McCarthy, who wrote Code Complete.)

> consider KR style by far the best.  Screen real-estate (most
> specifically, number of lines displayed at once) is an important
> resource to be invested wisely, not squandered...

I can understand that argument, but years ago I concluded 
the tradeoff I was making to follow K&R was not worth it.
I believe even with braces taking up individual lines all 
by themselves, I have more than enough lines on-screen at once.
If I feel I can't see enough code with the 35 or 50 lines I
have in the window, I conclude my code is likely getting
too complex and needs refactoring.  Meanwhile the extreme
cleanliness of my brace indentation style makes the 
refactoring proceed more reliably and easily.  But YMMV, and
obviously does.  :)

> And I was just as happy to discover that Python's use of
> indentation in lieu of braces completely avoids squandering
> precious screen-lines unproductively -- just like (even better,
> actually) the K & R style which I'll always keep using and
> defending for C, C++, and Java sources.
> 
> Isn't Python just great in its ability to keep happy people
> from such opposed camps, through the SAME device?-)  Worth all
> the interminable threads on this group with non-Pythonistas who
> are *adamant* Python *SHOULD* allow (or mandate) braces...!-)

Complete, total agreement!  :)


From nas at arctrix.com  Sat Jan 27 11:33:52 2001
From: nas at arctrix.com (Neil Schemenauer)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 08:33:52 -0800
Subject: . Python 2.1 function attributes
In-Reply-To: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCIELKILAA.tim.one@home.com>; from tim.one@home.com on Sat, Jan 27, 2001 at 06:01:27PM -0500
References: <$5A+ZwAGjtc6EwE0@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCIELKILAA.tim.one@home.com>
Message-ID: <20010127083352.A8269@glacier.fnational.com>

On Sat, Jan 27, 2001 at 06:01:27PM -0500, Tim Peters wrote:
> You might like this new 2.1 feature better then, best illustrated by
> example:
> 
> >>> def f(\d+)(i):
> ...     return int(\1) + 1
> ...
> >>> f12(6)
> 18

Cool.  People can't say there are no revolutionary new features
in 2.1 now.

  Neil ;-)



From boyd at cpsc.ucalgary.ca  Fri Jan  5 12:29:49 2001
From: boyd at cpsc.ucalgary.ca (Jeff Boyd)
Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 10:29:49 -0700
Subject: problem with numpy
Message-ID: <3A56048D.1D6A4737@cpsc.ucalgary.ca>

I have a program that uses Numerical Python that is behaving oddly. A
program that demonstrates is below.  The assignment to y[i] in the
function "filter" (an IIR filter) does not appear to happen so the
result is always an array of zeros.  Questions:

1. is this a bug or am I doing something wrong?
2.  if it is a bug, will an upgrade fix it? (I am using ver 15.2 right
now)



# bug.py - a bug, I think, in NumPy

import Numeric
from math import *

# apply an IIR filter (H(z) = N(z)/D(z)) to an input signal, x
def filter( N, D, x ) :
    y = Numeric.zeros( x.shape )        # output array
    n = x.shape[0]                      # number of samples
    N = N / D[0]                        # normalize filter coefficients
    D = D / D[0]
    on = N.shape[0] - 1                 # orders of N and D polynomials
    od = D.shape[0] - 1
    N = N[-1::-1]                       # reverse order of coefficients
    D = D[-1::-1]
    for i in range(1,n) :
        #print i, Numeric.sum( x[i-on:i+1] * N ),
        #print Numeric.sum( y[i-od:i  ] * D[:-1] )

        #############################
        # this assignment fails
        y[i] = Numeric.sum( x[i-on:i+1] * N ) - Numeric.sum( y[i-od:i  ]
* D[:-1] )
        #############################

    return y

# compute filter coefficients
tau = 5
w1 = 2 * tan(pi/tau)
Nlp = Numeric.array( [1.0, 1.0] )
Dlp = Numeric.array( [1.0 + 2/w1, 1.0 - 2/w1] )

# apply the filter to a step function
x = Numeric.zeros( 30 )
x[15:] = 1
y = filter( Nlp, Dlp, x )

# print the result
for i in range(30) :
    print i, y[i]



--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jeffrey E.  Boyd
Department of Computer Science               E-mail: boyd at cpsc.ucalgary.ca
University of Calgary                        Phone: (403) 220 6038
2500 University Drive NW                     Fax: (403) 284 4707
Calgary, Alberta, Canada T2N 1N4             URL: http://www.cpsc.ucalgary.ca/
------------------------------------------------------------------------------





From barry at digicool.com  Sat Jan 27 11:23:05 2001
From: barry at digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 11:23:05 -0500
Subject: . Python 2.1 function attributes
References: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0101270135190.7677-100000@y.glue.umd.edu>
	<mailman.980593892.725.python-list@python.org>
	<$5A+ZwAGjtc6EwE0@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <14962.62953.304511.523826@anthem.wooz.org>

>>>>> "RB" == Robin Becker <robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> writes:

    >> Barry also added code to Python 2.1 to let you write, e.g., def
    >> f() >> x: x = 1 y = 2 as a short way to spell "whatever the
    >> value of x is at the end of the function, return that".  I'm
    >> sure you'll agree that's much cleaner than the clumsy def f():
    >> x = 1 y = 2 return x people suffer with today.
    | ....
    | mmmhhhh :( what happens with

    | def f() >> x:
    |         return 1


    RB> def f() >> x:
    |         y=2
    |         return y

    RB> seems to me that having multiple ways of doing return is a bad
    RB> idea

It was a joke.  Tim meant to write "def f() << x" because "the
function f `gets' the value of x".  The patch also places the return
value as a function attribute so you really write it like this:

def f() << x:
    x = 1
    y = 2

print f.x

That both calls f and returns the x attribute value.  Add in
__setattr__ semantics and arguments as list comprehensions, and you
get the power and clarity of:

>>> def f(x * [x-1 for x > 1]) << x: pass
...
>>> print f.x = 5
120

What could be more natural than that? <wink, wink, nudge, nudge>

to-be-checked-in-just-after-fred's-optional-braces-patch-ly y'rs,
-Barry



From mwh21 at cam.ac.uk  Mon Jan 15 10:36:58 2001
From: mwh21 at cam.ac.uk (Michael Hudson)
Date: 15 Jan 2001 15:36:58 +0000
Subject: bug?: exception and references
References: <mailman.979567879.17030.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m3d7do4yjp.fsf@atrus.jesus.cam.ac.uk>

Balazs Scheidler <bazsi at balabit.hu> writes:

> Something thus holds a reference to the instance, even if it's deleted from
> the local namespace of test1(), my question is what it might be? 

Something starting from sys.last_traceback, I'd think.

> I'm using Python as an extension language, and I call the method using
> PyObject_CallObject(), if an exception is raised in the function, nothing
> frees up the object instance (because of the extra reference).

It will get freed up eventually (ie. when the next exception gets
raised).  Or you could assign None to sys.last_traceback, or "del"
that (I'm not sure what best practice is here).

Cheers,
M.

-- 
  If comp.lang.lisp *is* what vendors are relying on to make or break
  Lisp sales, that's more likely the problem than is the effect of 
  any one of us on such a flimsy marketing strategy...
                                      -- Kent M Pitman, comp.lang.lisp


From phd at phd.pp.ru  Tue Jan 23 04:58:01 2001
From: phd at phd.pp.ru (Oleg Broytmann)
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 12:58:01 +0300 (MSK)
Subject: Python as a web server?
In-Reply-To: <980242697.576973@shelley.paradise.net.nz>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0101231255510.9765-100000@fep132.fep.ru>

On Tue, 23 Jan 2001, Aaron wrote:
> Hi all, I was wanting to dable in writing a very simple online turn based
> game, and was wondering if python could manage the server and client side of
> things? I'd need database access on the server, and would need to be able to
> get the client to print text of course, and draw some simple graphics like
> lines, circles, fills, points and the odd image.
>
> Could someone tell me if this is possible or should I use something else
> (Like php). If python is the way to go do you have any links on python
> server writing?

   Python is definetely the way to go. Python camoes with few simple HTTP
servers right in the standard library. For client side, there are
httplib.py, sgmllib/htmllib/py, Cookie.py, etc.

Oleg.
----
     Oleg Broytmann            http://phd.pp.ru/            phd at phd.pp.ru
           Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN.




From smnordby at yahoo.com  Fri Jan 26 18:03:32 2001
From: smnordby at yahoo.com (Steve)
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 15:03:32 -0800
Subject: The fundamentals...
References: <F8Jb6.30683$pp2.2619941@news3.cableinet.net> <mailman.980380532.28633.python-list@python.org> <94sa4a$vo8$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <3A720244.2EF34DA9@yahoo.com>

mspiggie at my-deja.com wrote:

> I have been trying to find a way to use replace() to perform more than
> one replacement within a given file.  For instance, suppose I needed to
> replace ". " with "\n", but also need to replace "!" with "exclamation"
> and "?" with "question".  I have tried several approaches to this, but
> none of my neophyte ideas have produced satisfying results.
> 

You might try a dictionary:

subs = {'.': '\n', '!': 'exclamation', '?': 'question'}
for key in subs.keys():
    search = key
    replacement = subs[key]
    outfile = string.replace(infile, search, replacement)

-Steve-


From gregj at pobox.com  Tue Jan  9 16:08:04 2001
From: gregj at pobox.com (Greg Jorgensen)
Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2001 21:08:04 GMT
Subject: dns reverse look up with python ?
References: <93ecvp$v21$02$1@news.t-online.com> <93fe1k$mh4$0@216.39.151.169>
Message-ID: <U4L66.246946$U46.7820243@news1.sttls1.wa.home.com>

Don't count on symmetry. The IP address you get from socket.gethostbyname()
won't always resolve to the same name when you pass it to
socket.gethostbyaddr(). Virtual domains, round-robin DNS, and load balancers
are just three of many flies in the ointment.

For example:

>>> import socket
>>> s = socket.gethostbyname('www.pdxperts.com')
>>> s
'216.240.147.136'
>>> socket.gethostbyaddr(s)
('basic-igloo.winston.dreamhost.com', [], ['216.240.147.136'])
>>>

This happens because the pdxperts.com is a virtual domain on the host
basic-igloo.winston.dreamhost.com.

So be careful about what you expect from reverse DNS.

--
Greg Jorgensen
PDXperts
Portland, Oregon, USA
gregj at pobox.com


"Donn Cave" <donn at oz.net> wrote in message
news:93fe1k$mh4$0 at 216.39.151.169...
> Quoth "Ralf Claus" <ralf.claus at t-online.de>:
>
> | any suggestion about this theme ?
> | Is there a way for me (newbie) ?
>
> >>> import socket
> >>> socket.gethostbyname('t-online.de')
> '194.25.134.132'
> >>> socket.gethostbyaddr('194.25.134.132')
> ('www1.sul.t-online.de', [], ['194.25.134.132'])
>
> That's what I understand "reverse lookup" to mean.  Given
> a DNS name, like the host name that appears in your email
> address "t-online.de", first I look up the IP address with
> gethostbyname().  Then, I look up the DNS address by the
> IP address.
>
> Hopefully, after this procedure you have a stable pair of
> IP and DNS addresses, so if you repeat this procedure you
> will continue to get the same answer.  That's the point.
>
> Donn Cave, donn at oz.net




From nas at arctrix.com  Fri Jan 19 10:35:11 2001
From: nas at arctrix.com (Neil Schemenauer)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 07:35:11 -0800
Subject: PSU uses emacs?
In-Reply-To: <20010119132549.K4478@harmony.cs.rit.edu>; from dsh8290@rit.edu on Fri, Jan 19, 2001 at 01:25:49PM -0500
References: <948e4b$hm0$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <948fvj$oq1$1@panix6.panix.com> <3A67CDC3.7EACB07D@Lugoj.Com> <9490t009on@news2.newsguy.com> <3a685ef2.3403798@reading.news.pipex.net> <949rii0a76@news1.newsguy.com> <20010119132549.K4478@harmony.cs.rit.edu>
Message-ID: <20010119073511.A16913@glacier.fnational.com>

On Fri, Jan 19, 2001 at 01:25:49PM -0500, D-Man wrote:
> On Fri, Jan 19, 2001 at 05:55:45PM +0100, Alex Martelli wrote:
> > to remove those silly control-M (carriage-return) that using
> > some other editor may have inserted, :%s/^Q^M// is what one
> > types
> 
> What does the % mean here?  I usually use :g/^V^M/s/// (working on NT
> or in cygwin's console vim).

It means: do the command on all lines in the buffer.  Your g
command selects lines that match "^M" and does a substitution.
The end result is the same.

  Neil



From dirk at infostreet.com  Sat Jan 20 10:11:17 2001
From: dirk at infostreet.com (Dirk Leas)
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 08:11:17 -0700
Subject: Timestamping JPEGs w/ PIL?
Message-ID: <NBBBKMMANMGEEBHPJJECKEKIJBAA.dirk@infostreet.com>

Is there a way to put a date/timestmap on JPEG files with PIL? My digicam
can generate a data file with all sorts of stats on each picture. I'd like
to be able to take that file, parse it, and batch iterate through each
picture placing certain pieces of data in the bottom right corner of the
picture (like you see on lots of 35mm/camcorder footage). Any advise on
doing this with PIL would be appreciated. I also have access to gimp should
I need to create the text on the fly to be layered in.

TIA,
D




From rjroy at takingcontrol.com  Fri Jan 19 23:54:59 2001
From: rjroy at takingcontrol.com (Robert Roy)
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 04:54:59 GMT
Subject: adding the XML to 2.0 to be a mistake?
References: <mailman.979611383.15529.python-list@python.org> <3d8zocuqrd.fsf@kronos.cnri.reston.va.us> <3a646756.124812921@news1.on.sympatico.ca> <p6qzogn7k8a.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <3a691865.131246312@news1.on.sympatico.ca>

On 19 Jan 2001 14:19:17 +0100, Martin von Loewis
<loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de> wrote:

>
>Today, pyexpat allows access to all entity refs to day, it reports the
>start and the end of CDATA sections, and it reports comments. So while
>I can follow the problems you have with SAX, I can't see why you
>complain about pyexpat.
>

pyexpat allows access to external entities. If an entity is not
declared it chokes. That is the behaviour of the underlying expat.
However you are correct,  I had not realized that the additional
handlers had been added to the expat interface. I had tried to migrate
to pyexpat a while ago but had to go back to xmllib because of some of
these issues. I gripe a lot about the entities but it is not that big
an issue when you get down to it, I just hate having to run every bit
of data through a substitution routine for the sake of a few entities.
Definitely cornercase though.

Bob


From jhauser at ifm.uni-kiel.de  Thu Jan 11 03:13:02 2001
From: jhauser at ifm.uni-kiel.de (Janko Hauser)
Date: 11 Jan 2001 09:13:02 +0100
Subject: tk3000 on linux
References: <stqj39.kf4.ln@adsl.bapnt>
Message-ID: <87d7dumrqp.fsf@lisboa.ifm.uni-kiel.de>

You can generate a Setup file in the tkinter3000 directory like:

# File named Setup
*shared*

# Choose the right libraries
_tk3draw  _tk3draw.c  -ltk8.0 -ltcl8.0 
# End file Setup

and copy the Makefile.pre.in from the config directory (e.g
lib/python2.0/config) into the tkinter3000 directory. Then

make -f Makefile.pre.in boot
make

Now you can run the demos.

HTH,
__Janko


-- 
  Institut fuer Meereskunde             phone: 49-431-597 3989
  Dept. Theoretical Oceanography        fax  : 49-431-565876
  Duesternbrooker Weg 20                email: jhauser at ifm.uni-kiel.de
  24105 Kiel, Germany


From sholden at holdenweb.com  Sat Jan 20 11:56:28 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 11:56:28 -0500
Subject: Tabbing/Spaces
References: <mailman.979955644.18879.python-list@python.org> <94bjhl$as2$1@news.gu.se>
Message-ID: <_uja6.19567$Mo6.198451@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>

"Martin Sandin" <msandin at remove_this.hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:94bjhl$as2$1 at news.gu.se...
> "Tim Peters" <tim.one at home.com> skrev i meddelandet
> news:mailman.979955644.18879.python-list at python.org...
>
> > *Mixing* tabs and spaces is insane in Python source.
>
> Insane it might be, but it is what is "recommended" in GvR's style guide:
>
> 'Tabs or Spaces?
> One indentation level is 4 spaces. Two levels is one tab. Three levels is
a
> tab and 4 spaces, and so on. Python doesn't mind if you indent one line
with
> 8 spaces and the next line with a tab -- they are considered to have the
> same indentation. Replacing all tabs with spaces is more robust in the
light
> of some editors on the Mac or PC (which default to displaying the tab
> character as 4 spaces instead of 8, as God intended) but this can be done
on
> transfer to such platforms.'
>
> Available from python.org, documentations GvR's essays :-)
>
> Me? A tab is 4 spaces, I hard tab indent my code. It's the easiest and
> fastest way for moving my code tab levels.
>
A tab is 4 spaces for me, too, but I make my editor actually use the spaces
instead of the tabs. Since it will remove spaces back to the last tab-stop
when I hit SHIFT-tab this means that my listings are correctly interpreted
by text-processing tools which insist on treating text as having tab stops
every eight spaces. There's nothing worse than a listing which runs off the
edge off the page (worst case) or wraps over (better) becaure the tabbing
indentation is too long.

regards
 Steve




From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Thu Jan 18 11:48:46 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 17:48:46 +0100
Subject: what happens when cookies get too big?
References: <mailman.979830522.31537.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9476s4015ti@news2.newsguy.com>

"Skip Montanaro" <skip at mojam.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.979830522.31537.python-list at python.org...
>
> This isn't really a Python question, but since I'm using Python to
implement
> things, I figured perhaps I could sneak this in.
>
> What happens when cookies get too big?  Do browsers tend to barf, toss out
> the cookie, truncate it, or something else I've not anticipated?  RFC 2109
> says oversize cookies (double-stuff?) must be discarded, but I wonder if
all
> browsers adhere to that requirement.

Discarding is, I think, pretty standard behavior (but other cookies may
get discarded too if one is -- not sure if that complies with 2109, but
it makes sense as the other cookies from a given domain may be no use
unless all are present).

> I'm storing a cookie that represents a
> list of names.  It's zlib compressed and base64 encoded, so I can store
> quite a few names.

But if it gets above reasonable thresholds, you may want to keep it
server-side and use the cookie just as a (small!) key to retrieve it.
I don't think you should encode all THAT much data into cookies: they're
a session-state management mechanism, after all, not a 'data store':).


Alex





From tim.one at home.com  Mon Jan  1 21:57:14 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2001 21:57:14 -0500
Subject: Recursion
In-Reply-To: <3A513319.99F69D27@theworldNoSpammy.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCMEEIIGAA.tim.one@home.com>

[David Lees]
> ...
> Two minor things that come out of playing with recursive and
> nonrecursive factorial using PythonWin.  A question and an
> observation.

I'll do what I can, but questions about PythonWin oddities are best directed
at Mark Hammond.

> 1. I notice a pretty low (<999) recursion depth limit for
> factorial on Python 2.0.  Can the depth be set easily or does
> it require recompiling Python?

import sys
sys.getrecursionlimit()  # returns 1000 by default
sys.setrecursionlimit(n) # to set it

> 2. A simple iterative factorial such as the one one posted by
> Gerlich seems to run out of some printing related resource
> under PythonWin at values of N around 1400.  Further, the
> response of PythonWin seems to be serverly degraded after this.

See first comment -- I use IDLE out of loyalty to my boss <wink>.

> On the other hand, when I assign the output of the iterative
> factorial function to a variable, the result is computed very
> rapidly (2 seconds for 10000!).  I can still display the
> output by converting it to a string ala:  StringVersion='%s' % x
> where x is the 35,660 digit result of 10,000 factorial.

A few things to note:

+ Converting a long x to a decimal string (via str(), %s, repr(), whatever)
takes time quadratic in the number of digits in x.  So, e.g., on my box, it
takes about 16 times longer to convert fac(10000) to a decimal string than
to compute it.

+ Converting a long x to a hex or octal string (via hex() or oct() or %x)
takes time linear in the number of digits in x; that's essentially because
longs are stored in base 2**15 internally, and converting that to hex or
octal is trivial.  Continuing the example, converting fac(1000) to a hex
string goes about 1000x *faster* than computing it on my box.  Or, IOW,
converting to hex goes about 10,000 times faster than converting to decimal.
Since N**2/N == 10,000 when N=10,000, this isn't entirely coincidence
<wink>.  So if you're just futzing around, stick to hex.

+ IDLE has no problem displaying fac(10000), so if there is a problem in
PythonWin it's likely to be with the underlying text widget.

+ But IDLE does "bog down" after displaying it, up until the time the last
digit of the display scrolls off the top of the window.  That's true of any
output containing an extremely long single line in IDLE; the Tk text widget
seems to feel abused in such cases (my guess is that the widget's
line-wrapping algorithm is overburdened).

another-millennium-of-widget-excuses-ly y'rs  - tim






From grante at visi.com  Wed Jan 17 12:15:33 2001
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 17:15:33 GMT
Subject: Problem with a tuple - newbie ignorance
References: <3A633531.9010303@yale.edu> <3A635C32.9E5285C5@yale.edu> <i1k76t8g9dr5fft0v0phcr98hb6qkdjbaq@4ax.com> <slrn968fk9.g0f.scarblac@pino.selwerd.nl> <nk096.27$eI2.11999@ruti.visi.com> <3A64D9E8.B1D52E1E@mail.mcg.edu> <943vu402jit@news2.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <Vqk96.123$eI2.84760@ruti.visi.com>

In article <943vu402jit at news2.newsguy.com>, Alex Martelli wrote:
>"Keith F. Woeltje" <kwoeltje at mail.mcg.edu> wrote in message
>news:3A64D9E8.B1D52E1E at mail.mcg.edu...

>> Normal (forward) slashes won't however work in a command prompt
>> window in Win2000. Does the python interpreter make the change
>> "magically" (like it does the end of line marker)?
>
>Not really -- it's actually the (Microsoft) runtime libraries
>that _underlie_ the interpreter
[...]
>But I've never seen any C or C++ compiler for Windows (or, earlier,
>DOS) that would fail to provide this little convenience (I _think_,
>but I'm not sure I recall correctly, that DOS would accept forward
>slashes even at the system-call [interrupt] level, 

That's my recollection: the DOS file I/O services accepted
forward slashes.

>while the Win32 APIs are not so forgiving).

That I didn't know.

>The command-line processors have long been the worst-crippled
>parts of MS operating systems (which IS saying something, given
>the crippledness level of other parts thereof:-).

Well, the only way they could convince people to use the awful
GUI that windows used to have (it's improved somewhat), was to
make sure the command-line shell was completely useless.  I
suppose it's kept MKS in business.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  -- I love KATRINKA
                                  at               because she drives a
                               visi.com            PONTIAC. We're going
                                                   awaynow. I fed the cat.


From tim.one at home.com  Mon Jan 29 04:24:22 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 04:24:22 -0500
Subject: "in" for dicts (was: Python 2.1 function attributes)
In-Reply-To: <9535qg$8mu@gap.cco.caltech.edu>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCEEOPILAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Nathaniel Gray]
> ...
> Nevertheless, there are still three big problems with "in" for
> dictionaries:
>
> Number 1:  There is no reason, a priori, to think that "in dict" should
> mean "in dict.keys()" rather than "in dict.values()" or even "in
> dict.items()".  Explicit is better than implicit, right?

This is the reason Guido gave most often in previous years.  It appears that
only professional debaters *believe* it, though <wink>.  That is, to the
best of my knowledge, nobody ever claimed that they personally would mistake
what

    if x in dict:

or

    for x in dict:

meant.  They're always worred that "somebody else" might not get it.  After
a decade, it's increasingly hard to believe that set of supernaturally
feeble users isn't empty.

> Number 2:  The chosen semantics for "in dict" are inconsistent with the
> meaning of "in" in the context of lists.  The "keys" of a list are the
> integers from 0 to len(the list) - 1.
> ...

But this one he's always dismissed as "hypergeneralization".  He really
doesn't think of lists (or tuples, for that matter) as being a flavor of
mapping.  So arguments based on the belief that they are get rejected.

> Number 5:  (three, sir)  Oh yes, number 3:  We've already got
> "for a_key in dict.keys()"!

We still don't have anything else for 2.1; only "a_key in dict" in a
*boolean* context has been implemented.  And, yes, we've already got
dict.has_key(a_key) for that.  And, yes, Guido just *approved* of adding
"for a_key in dict" too, although implementing that is a puzzle given the
current iteration protocol's use of __getitem__ (it doesn't jibe with what
dict.__getitem__ does), and "what to do" about programs that go mutating the
dict during iteration.

> The only reason we're introducing these ambiguous, inconsistent
> semantics is so that we can use a dictionary as a set and still
> say "for thing in a_set:".

As I said before, Guido didn't appear to have sets in mind at all, and
neither did Ka-Ping Yee over the years he's been suggesting this change.
Ping simply took the recent flurry of "set" discussion as an *opportunity*
to push this change again.  It's been suggested by many others over the
years too, some of whom may never even have heard of sets <wink>.

> (I sure hope we're not doing it just to save a few keystrokes every
> now and then!)

No.  I don't even believe that was mentioned.  Most people seem to think
that these uses of "in" for dicts are *obvious*, and that has been
mentioned -- often.  Some have also mentioned that "x in dict" will be
faster than "dict.has_key(x)", and ditto for iteration (in which latter case
it may also save an unbounded amount of additional storage).  The latter has
been a FAQ for years:

    http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw.py?req=show&file=faq06.012.htp

> We're not straightening out an awkward idiom or clearing up a
> Python wart,

See above.

> we're masquerading one data structure as another.

I don't see that.  Boolean "in" is another name for "has_key", so in that
sense it's nothing new at all.  And as the FAQ entry above explains, Python
already has a dict iterator under the covers, it's simply never been
exposed.

> "It's not a big dog.  Perhaps if we clipped it's ears and taught it to
> meow it could pass for a cat!"

Oh, now I'm getting confused!  Is a dict the dog or the cat?  Is a list the
other one?  And what are the ears?  Is meowing iteration?  In that case
we're taking the cat out of the dungeon and removing the cruel muzzle from
its cute little kitty mouth, while giving the doghouse a fresh coat of
paint.

> Once again, wouldn't it just be better to have a collections module for
> Python with a Set class and let dictionaries be dictionaries?

Sorry, but this really has very little to do with sets.  It's more to make
the crocodiles happy without feeding them household pets.

> And yes, I dislike list.pop() too.  ;^)

Really?  Or did you intend to say you dislike dict.pop() (which would fit
better with the animal analogies <wink>).

> Lest I come off as too much of a grumpy Gus, I should add that I really
> like most of the new stuff in Python 2.1a1, particularly xreadlines.

Figures -- that's the one Guido likes least.  He dislikes xrange too.  He
was forced into xreadlines by timing considerations (we couldn't match its
performance cleanly, not with finite effort).  The only reason to like
xreadlines is speed (which is reason enough!) -- but in that case you should
like both flavors of "x in dict" too, and for the same reason.

> I'll  be first in line to upgrade when 2.1 stabilizes, even if "in dict"
> survives.

Hey, CVS is open for business!  The only way a new release stablilizes is
via people *using* it.  People who wait until the final release to report
bugs are going to have to wait months for relief.  That said, Python alpha
releases have been more stable than most peoples' final releases in my
decade of Python experience, and I'm both surprised and delighted that this
doesn't seem to have changed despite the radical change in development
process last year.  Python is still leading a charmed life that way.

don't-ever-name-a-language-"mongoose"-ly y'rs  - tim




From gmc333 at my-deja.com  Tue Jan 30 11:21:04 2001
From: gmc333 at my-deja.com (Greg)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 16:21:04 GMT
Subject: xor operator?
References: <mailman.980769755.13612.python-list@python.org> <slrn97cuta.eti.quinn@groat.ugcs.caltech.edu>
Message-ID: <956pl6$8dg$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

In article <slrn97cuta.eti.quinn at groat.ugcs.caltech.edu>,
  quinn at groat.ugcs.caltech.edu (Quinn Dunkan) wrote:
> On Mon, 29 Jan 2001 13:02:30 +0100, jurgen.defurne at philips.com
> <jurgen.defurne at philips.com> wrote:
> >I have indeed never met a language which had a boolean XOR (but some
> >have a binary XOR).
>
> if true xor false then
>    std_output.put_string("eiffel does!%N");
> end; -- and we can't use the std abbreviations, either, Just Because!
>
> Not that I've ever actually used it or anything.  We only need one
kind of
> loop, because that's "minimal", but hey, pile on the random boolean
operators!
>
> :)
>

LOL! I grepped through SmallEiffel's standard library and found one
place where the boolean xor was used: in part of a contract.

Greg
--
http://homestead.deja.com/user.gmc333/index.html


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Jan 26 08:08:04 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 14:08:04 +0100
Subject: win32com.client - need some help
References: <94mjj8$v3g$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <94mrs102b3i@news2.newsguy.com> <94pa5c$aqb$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <94pni302k2g@news2.newsguy.com> <94rjot$cbk$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <94rsri027h1@news2.newsguy.com>

<zippy1984 at my-deja.com> wrote in message news:94rjot$cbk$1 at nnrp1.deja.com...
>
> > >
> > >    HRESULT getDictionary([out] IDispatch** pDictionary);
> > >    [id(0x12345678)]
> >
> > Unusual ([out] is generally [out,retval]) but OK.
>
> Well, I do get a return value, but not what I expected.....
> So, I don't know if this is important.

It may be.  But I'm astonished you get a return-value AT
ALL *unless* makepy has been run one way or another.

> >>> print dic.__class__.__doc__
>     The dynamic class used as a last resort.
    [snip]
> ...I guess this is not what I wanted to see...?

Right.

> What is causing these problems?  Is it a "poor" definition in the
> COM server that does not give win32com enough information?  Is there

Sure, IDispatch** in the IDL is too generic -- no indication
at all of _what_ dispinterface is being implemented.  Still,
that should not be a killer, just a big inconvenience.

What's happening here seems to be very different: you seem
to be getting an instance of win32com.client.CDispatch and
NOT one of win32com.client.Dispatch.  So, apparently, there
is NO type-information *at all* connected with the object;
it does not implement GetTypeInfo to let users know what
type-info/type-library it comes from.  Still, it _should_
be still possible to invoke methods on it, just not to find
out what the invokable methods *ARE*.


Alex





From shilde1 at irix2.gl.umbc.edu  Wed Jan 17 13:59:07 2001
From: shilde1 at irix2.gl.umbc.edu (Stephen Hilderbrand)
Date: 17 Jan 2001 18:59:07 GMT
Subject: Python Packet Sniffers
Message-ID: <944q1r$7od$1@news.umbc.edu>

Hello out there,

DOes anyone on this group know where to find a python packet
sniffer?  I've downloaded the Feb 1999 version of PY-libpcap, but it
doesn't support filters.  I may have to hack PY-libpcap to get it to work
the way I need it to, but I figured I'd ask you folks first.

I'm on a Debian Linux system running Python 1.52.  Please respond by
e-mail as I don't frequent news.

THanks in advance,
Steev.
shilde1 at umbc.edu


From jgraves3 at austin.rr.com  Sat Jan 27 14:26:26 2001
From: jgraves3 at austin.rr.com (jay graves)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 19:26:26 GMT
Subject: [Off topic] allowed to put Python material on the Web?
References: <3a730931.31998180@news.skynet.be>
Message-ID: <3a731f6a.97406397@news-server.austin.rr.com>

On Sat, 27 Jan 2001 17:51:57 GMT, Daniel.Kinnaer at Advalvas.be (Daniel)
wrote:

>As a Python newbie, I've been collecting lots of questions and answers
>from this newsgroup.  It contains stuff not readily found in the many
>good FAQ from the net.
>Before setting up a new site, I would like to ask if it is allowed to
>put my collection of questions and answers from this newsgroup (which
>helped me a lot) on my site,so everyone can enjoy/learn from it
>without going to the d?j? palace.

Something similar already exists.
http://python.faqts.com




From peter at engcorp.com  Sat Jan  6 23:54:30 2001
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2001 23:54:30 -0500
Subject: Should I learn Python or Java?
References: <HEO56.5504$y9.2881293@typhoon.we.rr.com>
Message-ID: <3A57F686.D1F1604@engcorp.com>

Charlotte Williams wrote:
> 
> I notice that there is a lot of demand for Java programmers.  The only
> experience I have with an OO language is Smalltalk.   My questions are:
> 
> 1.  Which language would be best to learn, Java or Python.  

"Best" is of course dependent entirely on your own requirements.  
For me, Java was important to learn but at this point Python 
is hands-down the better (in terms of productivity, fun, and 
code quality).  Actually, I consider the three years between
my learning Java and my discovering and learning Python to
have been spent relatively ineffectively (using Java and Delphi).
My productivity is much higher with Python.  Based on 
what (little) I know of VB and VB programmers, I would have to 
say Python is definitely "better" for you.

> From a VB standpoint, which has the least learning curve?

Python.  No contest.  From a C++ background I took a week
to write my first sizable Java program.  I took about a week
to write my first sizable Python program too.  On the other
hand, for the former I was on vacation (geek!) and spent
about 14 hours a day on it.  The Python program was part 
time at work between other tasks...

(As far as reliability goes: with only minor tweaking both
programs are still in use.  The Java one has been running
as a 24x7 server since January 1997.  The Python one has
been in daily use as a factory test automation system since
May 2000.  I'm extremely happy with *both* languages' abilities
in this respect.)

> 2.  Is going from object-based to object-oriented programming that huge a
> jump?   I want to learn an OO language, however I plan on utilizing it in my
> career.

I wouldn't call it huge, but it *is* different.  Look at 
it as removing your training wheels, perhaps. :)

> 3. Which one is the most "fun" to program in?

Having spent similar amounts of time with both, I say 
Python wins convincingly.

> 4.  Is Python multi-platform?  How is it's performance compared to JAVA in
> an internet situation?  It's reliability?

Very multi-platform, although I consider Java similarly so.  
Performance "in an internet situation" is comparable, but 
then I would say C would be as well.... after all, "internet" 
and "bandwidth-limited" are synonymous, aren't they? :)  

(Going past that issue, though, I believe Java has an 
inherent potential advantage, but end only a small one 
[not like a factor of 2 or anything].  In the end, however, 
if I can write my Python code in half the time 
it takes to write Java code, I have lots more time to 
optimize, if I feel so inclined, compared to the Java 
code.  One could argue that makes Python faster...)

> 5.  Do you for see Python as becoming a major player like Java servlets and
> MTS?  

For me Python is already a "major player".  I never made it 
to servlets, but Zope (in Python) provides me with far more 
power than servlets looked like they would, for the cost.
(What's MTS?)

> Can you see Python demand outstripping Java demand in 2 years time?

Absolutely not.  Java has a very firm and, I believe,
deserved role in certain kinds of application, many 
involving server applications, especially mission critical 
ones.  Although Python, remarkable platform that it is, 
would perform admirably in even this area, it was _not_ 
designed for this kind of thing, and would _not_ be the 
best choice in many cases.  The right tool for the right job... 
for me, 20% of the time C is the right tool, 70% of the 
time it's Python, 10% it's Java, and 1% it's Assembly 
(note: this survey has a 1% margin of error, 19 times 
out of 20 ;-).

If those statistics applied to everyone, perhaps Python
demand would outstrip Java, but somehow I just don't
see that happening.  It seems to take a certain amount
of idealism in your blood to jump on board something
like Python.  Hmm.... I remember that being the case
with Java, in 1996, but perhaps all those Java people
have used up their idealism, or perhaps Guido just
can't compete against the Sun marketing machine...

Of course, there are people who still think Java
demand has yet to outstrip C++ demand, too.  I haven't
bothered watching either industry to see who's "winning".

> Many of these questions are in response to a post I saw earlier where Python
> was being touted as the next evolution of OO programming.  It went something
> like...
> C --> C++ --> Java --> Python.

Python is not an evolutionary advance beyond Java with 
respect to object-orientation.  Personally I do find it 
a _revolutionary_ advance beyond Java, in many other ways, 
but considering that Python came first, that's not entirely 
the right way to phrase it...  

Really, they are not exactly in direct competition with
each other, so looking at them as parallel evolutionary
paths might help.  One could say that although the Java 
genome has had recent strong success "replacing" the C++ 
genome which only a while ago replaced the C one, perhaps 
the environmental conditions are changing in such a way that 
they now favour the Python genome.

As with real-world evolutionary competition, biodiversity
is _essential_ to life.  Both Java and Python are likely 
to continue to encroach on the territories of other languages
as they demonstrate greater fitness in their evolutionary 
niches.


From dsh8290 at rit.edu  Mon Jan 29 11:07:24 2001
From: dsh8290 at rit.edu (D-Man)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 11:07:24 -0500
Subject: Problems with Install
In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.0.20010127045146.00a42dc0@thewebsons.com>; from zope@thewebsons.com on Sat, Jan 27, 2001 at 05:16:20AM -0800
References: <5.0.0.25.0.20010126083542.009e3290@mail.earthlink.net> <5.0.0.25.0.20010126083542.009e3290@mail.earthlink.net> <20010126133015.B7309@harmony.cs.rit.edu> <5.0.0.25.0.20010127045146.00a42dc0@thewebsons.com>
Message-ID: <20010129110724.A15924@harmony.cs.rit.edu>

On Sat, Jan 27, 2001 at 05:16:20AM -0800, Ben Ocean wrote:
| Unfortunately I need to install python 1.5.2 from source because I need to 
| configure it with multithreads. Equally unfortunately, I don't have the 
| luxury of time to learn C right this red-hot second. But I need to get this 

Ok, we'll help you figure this out now.  Hopefully no one will flame
us for describing C and gcc on a python list ;-).

| installation working!!! I've run into this error while running *make*. D 
| said it was due to an error in the myreadline.o So I re-ran make and copied 
| what printed to screen. The myreadline.o stuff doesn't appear until the 
| last few lines:

Yes, you were running make.  But make is just a nice tool that will
execute a lot of complex shell commands automatically.  You wouldn't
want to have to type all the commands it exec's would you?  ;-)
(rhetorical, don't bother answering it)

| 
| thor:/apache/vhosts/Python-1.5.2# make

[snip]

| gcc -g -O2 -I./../Include -I.. -DHAVE_CONFIG_H   -c myreadline.c -o 
| myreadline.o

The above 2 lines are the shell command make is exec'ing that is
giving you an error. 

| In file included from /usr/include/errno.h:36,
|                   from ../Include/Python.h:59,
|                   from myreadline.c:42:
| /usr/include/bits/errno.h:25: linux/errno.h: No such file or directory

Ahh, here's the error message.  Note that gcc is what gave the error
message.  gcc then returns a number other than zero from main(), thus
make tells you the following:

| make[1]: *** [myreadline.o] Error 1

While trying to execute the commands that will build the target
"myreadline.o" there was an error.

| make[1]: Leaving directory `/apache/vhosts/Python-1.5.2/Parser'
| make: *** [Parser] Error 2

Make is a recursive tool,  during its operation it will run another
copy of itself.  The first level of recursion (make[1]:) is leaving the
directory it is in.  Then you are back to the top-level make (make:)
This make process was trying to build the target "Parser", but got an
error code from the sub-process.

| 
| Just for fun I tried installing an rpm as you mentioned. The strangest 
| thing happened. When I got to the actual installation command, the darn 
| thing just vanished into thin air! running a whereis for python turns up 
| *nothing*! Oh, geez, what'd I do wrong?

I don't know what you did wrong, but try:

$ rpm -qa | grep -i *python*

to find a list of all packages that have python in the name (the -i on
grep makes it case insensitive)


Ok, now to sort out the error message:

| gcc -g -O2 -I./../Include -I.. -DHAVE_CONFIG_H   -c myreadline.c -o 
| myreadline.o
| In file included from /usr/include/errno.h:36,
|                   from ../Include/Python.h:59,
|                   from myreadline.c:42:
| /usr/include/bits/errno.h:25: linux/errno.h: No such file or directory

gcc is being told to compile myreadline.c and write the output to
myreadline.o.  There are a number of options being given to it
regarding optimization, include directories, and macro definitions.
The -c option tells it to just compile, not perform any linking or
create an actual executable.  (gcc will be run many times as each file
is compiled separately, then linked together at the end)

Ok, so you are in myreadline.c,  line 42.  If you look in the file,
you will see a line similar to

#include "../Include/Python.h"

The "" tells the preprocessor to look in the current directory and
follow the relative path.  (it is case sensitive,  at least on Unices
that have case-sensitive file systems, the cygwin port is probably not
but I haven't tested it)  Ok, so now the preproccessor is going
through Python.h.  On line 59 of Python.h there is something like
this:

#include <errno.h>

The <> tells the preprocessor to look in the system include
directories.  /usr/include is the most common one.  I believe the
system include directories are defined by your gcc installation.  Now
we are on line 36 of /usr/include/errno.h.  This line must inlclude
bits/errno.h (I'm concluding all of this from the error message, not
actually checking any files on my system, I have a Debian, not RH,
system now anyways).

The file /usr/include/bits/errno.h (on line 25) is trying to include
the file linux/errno.h, but the file doesn't exist on your system.
>From your other post you indicated that it had <> brackets around the
file name.  That means that it is supposed to be in the system include
directories somewhere.  Maybe /usr/include/linux/errno.h or
/usr/local/include/linux/errno.h.  Someone else said that
linux/errno.h is provided by kernel-headers.rpm.  Try installing that
rpm and see if it works.  Also, check the rpm so you know exactly
where it installs the headers to.  

Keep coming back here to continue your crash-course on C and the
preprocessor until you get all the problems worked out.  :-)  Maybe
you'll have time to learn C in the future.  I have a copy of a really
good tutorial that I found on the web a few years ago.  If you want, I
can send it to you.

HTH,
-D




From rcameszREMOVETHIS at dds.removethistoo.nl  Sat Jan 13 17:40:53 2001
From: rcameszREMOVETHIS at dds.removethistoo.nl (Robert Amesz)
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 22:40:53 GMT
Subject: new enum idiom
References: <G6qzLy.6Fo@world.std.com> <938jmh$919$1@animus.fel.iae.nl> <3A58B9C0.9F2A5CC0@collins.rockwell.com> <93an8v02d2n@news1.newsguy.com> <93dde1$8d2$1@animus.fel.iae.nl> <93f3nb023mv@news1.newsguy.com> <90259DC4Arcamesz@127.0.0.1> <93i57b01qms@news2.newsguy.com> <90268BCE3rcamesz@127.0.0.1> <93kb0m0r3s@news1.newsguy.com> <90273B4rcamesz@127.0.0.1> <pcoy9wgib4r.fsf@thoth.home>
Message-ID: <9028FAA1Brcamesz@127.0.0.1>

Harald Hanche-Olsen wrote:

>+ rcameszREMOVETHIS at dds.removethistoo.nl (Robert Amesz):
>
>| Alex Martelli wrote:
>| 
>| Ah, Lisp, so beautiful, so pristine, so ... verbose. Well, it's
>| great for lists, but anything numeric is a chore. Let's see:
>|    (EQ (PLUS 1 1) 2)
>|    t
>| Phew, so least that's still true... ;-)
>
>Which is an accident of the implementation, in the same sense that
>the following is accidentally true in python:
>>>> 1+1 is 2
>1

In python you're quite right, as this example shows:

>>> 101+101 is 202
0



>I'm sure you meant to write (= (+ 1 1) 2) ?

Oh, sure, if you insist on using *modern* Lisp idiom. <g>

Regarding the EQ, IIRC for numerical arguments it should do a
normal comparison, at least in the dialect I used some years ago.
(Remember XLisp?) For lists it only returns t if they're strictly
equal, not structurally equal, so in that respect it works the same
as 'is' in Python. I could (maybe should) have used EQUAL or = of
course, but, as you might have guessed, I felt like being
deliberately obtuse. ;-) 


>One neat thing about Lisp though, is how you can rewrite the syntax,
>for example to allow you to write infix arithmetic if you wish. 
>This takes much of the pain out of involved numerical work.  I wrote
>some scheme macros once (many years ago) to accomplish this - it was
>only a moderate amount of work.

True, the paradigm of Lisp is that all data structures are lists - or
cons-cells, rather - including the language itself. 


>In Common Lisp you can accomplish much the same thing even more
>elegantly using reader macros. 

The problem with reader macros is, however, that there's (generally)
no way of translating back. You could be in for a shock if you need
to debug that code later on. Mind you, similar things can be said if
you're a C-programmer and put too much code into your #define macros.
And, though it isn't mentioned often, the same goes for C++'s
templates. 


>but-now-I-have-a-feeling-we're-in-the-wrong-newsgroup-ly y'rs,

Right you are. Back to Python it is.


Robert Amesz


From grante at visi.com  Wed Jan 17 17:27:37 2001
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 22:27:37 GMT
Subject: parsing a file [newbie]
References: <mailman.979728198.29644.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <t%o96.174$eI2.99668@ruti.visi.com>

In article <mailman.979728198.29644.python-list at python.org>, Langa Kentane wrote:

>ONe thing I don't understand.
>When I run os.popen('df -h'), this returns a pointer to an already open file
>if I am not mistaken.

Correct.

>Now, to apply what you gave me to this scenario, how would I go about it.

You call the read() or readlines() method of that file object.
Something like this:

import os
import string

x = os.popen("mount").readlines()
y = []
for line in x:
    words = string.split(line)
    if len(words) >= 3:
        y.append(words[2])

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  .. are the STEWED
                                  at               PRUNES still in the HAIR
                               visi.com            DRYER?


From fredrik at effbot.org  Tue Jan 30 06:12:37 2001
From: fredrik at effbot.org (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 11:12:37 GMT
Subject: Wrapping up a C++ class
References: <954496$ues$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <9546rv01ahd@news2.newsguy.com> <9565q3$nnh$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <Fkxd6.9841$Qb7.1506259@newsb.telia.net>

"warrickb at my-deja.com" wrote:
> Thankyou all I shall take a look and see if I can make sense of it!  It
> does strike me as odd that there isn't a simple one source file example
> of how to do it in the docs though...

well, it does strike me as odd that there are C++ programmers
out there who don't understand C:

    Objects/xxobject.c
    Modules/xxmodule.c

overviews and reference docs are here:

    http://www.python.org/doc/current/ext/ext.html
    http://www.python.org/doc/current/api/api.html

Cheers /F




From gregj at pobox.com  Mon Jan 15 02:27:06 2001
From: gregj at pobox.com (Greg Jorgensen)
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 07:27:06 GMT
Subject: File I/O, rfc822, and stdin/stdout
References: <m9b26t8f11lvfjg8a59fo8nfdcl1ro9art@4ax.com> <mailman.979458074.1585.python-list@python.org> <72i36t8mmo27mi2nmv5iahr4ospps9crat@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <93u8o8$qsd$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

I worked on a similar project, but eventually replaced qmail with
postfix and my own scripts with procmail. Here's what worked for me
before I abandoned it:

----
import cStringIO
import rfc822

s = sys.stdin.read()       # read all input at once
f = cStringIO.StringIO(s)  # string to file-like object
m = rfc822.Message(f,1)    # parse headers
b = f.read()               # get message body
...
print str(m)               # print headers
print
print b                    # print body
---

In my application I needed to keep the entire message text around
(headers + body), so I read it all at once and use cStringIO to pass it
to rfc822.

--
Greg Jorgensen
Portland, Oregon, USA
gregj at pobox.com



In article <72i36t8mmo27mi2nmv5iahr4ospps9crat at 4ax.com>,
  Sheila King <sheila at thinkspot.net> wrote:
> On Sun, 14 Jan 2001 01:40:43 -0600, Eric Rahmig <erahmig at minn.net>
wrote in
> comp.lang.python in article <mailman.979458074.1585.python-
list at python.org>:
>
> :If you're not using qmail's 'preline' utility in your .qmail files
> :that might cause a problem. Without the use of 'preline' the email
> :message your script sees will NOT start with a From line and will
> :NOT contain a Return-Path header.
>
> You know, at some point I had been using preline, but eventually I
removed it.
> It didn't seem to be accomplishing much (of course, I had so many
other errors
> at that point ...
>
> Anyhow, just now I put it back in, to see what would happen. At
least, it
> delivered an e-mail.
>
> :I'm new to Python and have no experience with the rfc822 module. If
> :it is strict in its message parsing and expects a message to contain
> :a From line and a Return-Path header then use of preline should help
> :you:
> :
> :.qmail-foo:
> :|preline somescript.py ...
>
> Well, apparently rfc822 requires those lines, because at least now it
is
> delivering a message.
>
> Here is the script I just ran:
>
> -------------------------------------------
> #! /usr/bin/python
>
> import sys, rfc822
>
> raw_message = sys.stdin
>
> inheaders=rfc822.Message(raw_message)
> body=raw_message.read()
>
> print inheaders
> print
> print body
> -------------------------------------------
>
> Here is the e-mail I just received:
> -------------------------------------------
> Return-Path: <sheila at thinkspot.net>
> Delivered-To: xthinkspot-myuserID at thinkspot.net
> Received: (qmail 7982 invoked by uid 41121); 14 Jan 2001 15:30:48 -
0000
> Date: 14 Jan 2001 15:30:48 -0000
> Message-ID: <20010114153048.7981.qmail at nine.futurequest.net>
> From: sheila at thinkspot.net
> Cc: recipient list not shown: ;
> Delivered-To: xthinkspot-mytestaddress at thinkspot.net
>
> <rfc822.Message instance at 80bf6d8>
> -------------------------------------------
>
> That's it. The whole message.
>
> first of all, the fact that there is no To: field or Subject field in
the
> message, shows that the headers that came out of my script are
somehow broken
> (because I did have a To: and a Subject: in the test mail I sent).
Secondly,
> why is "print body" causing this line?
> <rfc822.Message instance at 80bf6d8>
> ?
>
> When I ran the following script on a DOS prompt, where I have changed
only the
> source of input:
> -------------------------------------------
> #! /usr/bin/python
>
> import sys, rfc822
>
> #raw_message = sys.stdin
> raw_message=open("message4.txt","r")
>
> inheaders=rfc822.Message(raw_message)
> body=raw_message.read()
>
> print inheaders
> print
> print body
> -------------------------------------------
>
> The entire message body (along with headers) is printed out to the
screen.
>
> Anyhow, I guess I will go back to trying to write the messages to
files, so I
> can see exactly what the script is putting out, and try to figure out
what the
> problem is.
>
> Thanks for suggesting preline. It did help.
>
> --
> Sheila King
> http://www.thinkspot.net/sheila/
> http://www.k12groups.org/
>



Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From ruediger.maehl at web.de  Fri Jan 19 08:42:10 2001
From: ruediger.maehl at web.de (Ruediger)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 14:42:10 +0100
Subject: Curses module for Python 2.0 for Windows NT
References: <mailman.979719258.23519.python-list@python.org> <wRc96.7125$AH6.1093614@newsc.telia.net>
Message-ID: <newscache$41ye7g$thb$1@www.dzsh.de>

Fredrik Lundh schrieb in Nachricht ...
>if you can live with a simpler API, here's an alternative
>console driver for windows:
>
>    http://effbot.org/efflib/console
>
>Cheers /F
>


I downloaded your Console module and found it
very helpful, thank you. But when using it, there is always
a 0 (zero) return value from the python program although
sys.exit(2) is used.

Can one set the return value?
I didn't find anything in your docs.

# Excerpt from example:
myConsole = Console.getconsole()
myConsole.title("My Application")

# app continues here...

# Used until now
# sys.exit(2)

# Perhaps like this?
myConsole.exit(2)

/Ruediger




From w.neff at tirol.com  Sun Jan 14 16:22:24 2001
From: w.neff at tirol.com (Wolfgang Neff)
Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 22:22:24 +0100
Subject: win32all crashes win98
Message-ID: <3a621864$0$21002@SSP1NO25.highway.telekom.at>

Python extensions for Windows (win32all) work fine on Windows 2000 and also
on Windows 98 SE / IE 5.5 when run within PythonWin. Withing python/pythonw,
however, the same script causes kernel32.dll to crash with a stack error.

I'd like to run the following script by double clicking its icon without
getting a python shell:

    #MsgBox.pyw
    import win32con
    import win32ui
    win32ui.MessageBox("Message Box","Test",win32con.MB_OK)

Is there someone who knows a work-around?

Thanks

   Wolfgang







From anderson at boi.hp.com  Wed Jan 17 07:43:11 2001
From: anderson at boi.hp.com (Bill Anderson)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 05:43:11 -0700
Subject: why no "do : until"?
References: <92jj3j$ff7$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <slrn94shbe.150.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <X8s36.2731$Qb7.305339@newsb.telia.net> <slrn94smds.150.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <FOt36.17$vd1.2224@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com> <slrn94t1vj.150.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <3A4E95FD.D6C737A7@engcorp.com> <slrn94tqkh.150.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <tpr46.7782$4c.597534@ruti.visi.com> <slrn954h6p.rgv.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <3A52AD6A.62D043A2@engcorp.com> <3A534367.36B1FD18@uswest.net> <slrn957j19.go.amk@207-172-36-81.s81.tnt6.ann.va.dialup.rcn.com> <3A53F4B1.6227D241@uswest.net> <3A540D6A.B7B90A73@engcorp.com> <3A548E90.14BA5F4C@uswest.net>
Message-ID: <3A65935F.114C78CE@boi.hp.com>

Bjorn Pettersen wrote:
> 
> Peter Hansen wrote:
> 
> > Bjorn Pettersen wrote:
> > > and you'll have half a dozen people jumping on your back telling you that
> > > "while 1" is simple, intuitive, and is the only Pythonic way to do things
> > > (you'll have half a dozen other people trying to come up with some clever
> > > wrapper to solve the problem they think you have <wink>).
> >
> > That's hardly being fair.  I just checked back on the entire thread up
> > to this point and, while I may have missed something, it doesn't appear
> > that _anyone_ suggested 'while 1' is either simple or intuitive.
> 
> You forget how many of these we have a year... I believe the October/Novemeber
> one included that comment. 

Yes but that was last year. ;^)=

> Are you saying you don't think "while 1" is neither
> simple nor intuitive? (I think it's simple, but definitely not intuitive ;-)

I believe all he is saying is that nobody in this thread said it was.


tongue-in-cheekly-y'rs 

-- 
Bill Anderson               Linux Specialist
Modular Network Storage     R&D           
Random Quote:
    Portable: survives system reboot.


From max at alcyone.com  Tue Jan  2 01:42:57 2001
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Mon, 01 Jan 2001 22:42:57 -0800
Subject: Equivalent of Java 'throws'
References: <fos25t4doa37drmctilvnml351l30bbub4@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3A517871.C31F430@alcyone.com>

Daniel Klein wrote:

>  I've read thru the reference materials concerning exceptions and this
> one's got me stumped.  Is there any way in Python to do this? I
> suspect there isn't since Python is dynamically typed.

Nope, other than some kind of explicit documentation.

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, US / 37 20 N 121 53 W / ICQ16063900 / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ I sidestep the either
\__/ or choices of logic and choose both. | Ken Feit
    Alcyone Systems' Daily Planet / http://www.alcyone.com/planet.html
 A new, virtual planet, every day.


From echuck at mindspring.com  Fri Jan 12 23:51:49 2001
From: echuck at mindspring.com (echuck at mindspring.com)
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 04:51:49 GMT
Subject: Web devel with python. Whats the best route?
References: <mailman.978910629.6814.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <93omt3$pt5$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

In article <mailman.978910629.6814.python-list at python.org>,
  Chris Watson <chris at voodooland.net> wrote:
>
> 	I'm about to start converting the small fool proof (ha ha) admin
> system I have been working from console based to web based. What is
the
> easiest way to go about integrating python into apache so I can start
> web'izing this app? mod_python, mod_snake, PyApache?
>
> 	As usual thanks for the replies!
>

Chris, I like Webware's design. (http://webware.sourceforge.net)
Although, I admit that I could be biased. However, I think the fact
that I designed Webware *after* reviewing Zope and various Python web
modules mitigates my bias. :-)

The components of Webware are modular and optional so you can use as
little or as much as you want.

Writing servlets with Webware.WebKit is about as easy as writing CGIs,
but they perform better and can be expanded upon with other paradigms
like PSP. e.g., if you start with servlets, I think you have more
places that you can easily go/expand to.

You can even install your own custom templating system, which
Pythoneers seem to enjoy creating.

Also, WebKit gives you "simple URLs" with no extension:

  http://host.com/foo/bar

"bar" can be bar.html, bar.py, bar.psp, or bar.X where X is an
extension/plug-in that you created. The key here is that you can switch
implementations of "bar" (say moving from .py to .psp to .X) and your
URLs stay the same. That means less site maintenance for you and
nobody's bookmarks break.

Extensions like .html and .py are for programmers, not users. Therefore
they don't belong in the URL.


-Chuck
--
http://webware.sourceforge.net


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From gerhard.nospam at bigfoot.de  Fri Jan 19 03:51:19 2001
From: gerhard.nospam at bigfoot.de (Gerhard =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 09:51:19 +0100
Subject: Yes
References: <t6fqrs57ngp94d@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <3A680007.6CEC616A@bigfoot.de>

NT

(What means NT, btw.?)


From sholden at holdenweb.com  Thu Jan  4 13:29:26 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 13:29:26 -0500
Subject: AMK's ZODB package on Win32
References: <mailman.978625505.30132.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Cw356.135$xT.31713@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>

andres.corrada <andres.corrada at mpingo.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.978625505.30132.python-list at python.org...
>
> Can Kuchling's ZODB package be used under Win32? Does someone have
> experience doing this?
>
Simplistically: Zope runs under Win32, and uses ZODB, so presumably the
answer is "yes"!

regards
 Steve






From trentm at ActiveState.com  Wed Jan  3 18:07:15 2001
From: trentm at ActiveState.com (Trent Mick)
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2001 15:07:15 -0800
Subject: problem compiling Python 2.0 on Sun Solaris
In-Reply-To: <3a539455.17521624@news.wanadoo.fr>; from jef.mangelschots@iname.com on Wed, Jan 03, 2001 at 09:10:44PM +0000
References: <3a539455.17521624@news.wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <20010103150715.N28397@ActiveState.com>

On Wed, Jan 03, 2001 at 09:10:44PM +0000, Jef Mangelschots wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I just downloaded the sources for Python 2.0 from 
> http://www.python.org/ftp/python/2.0/BeOpen-Python-2.0.tar.gz
> 
> ALL the text files are unrecognizable to my system because each line
> is ended with 0x0D 0x0A, common for Windows NT systems, but not for
> Unix systems.

You could just get the source from cvs at sourceforge.

    > export CVSROOT=:pserver:anonymous at cvs.python.sourceforge.net:/cvsroot/python
    > cvs login         # just hit Enter for the password
    > cvs -z3 co -r release20-maint python

I am not sure if this will have a patch or two applied beyond the actual
Python 2.0 release but it will be very close.


Or you could just run dos2unix on all those files.


Cheers,
Trent


-- 
Trent Mick
TrentM at ActiveState.com



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Tue Jan 23 04:46:23 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 10:46:23 +0100
Subject: unpack sequence to tuple?
References: <94j6j1$3na$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <mailman.980234666.18231.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <94jjtb0108j@news1.newsguy.com>

"Moshe Zadka" <moshez at zadka.site.co.il> wrote in message
news:mailman.980234666.18231.python-list at python.org...
> On Tue, 23 Jan 2001 05:58:58 GMT, noahspurrier at my-deja.com wrote:
>
> > I want to easily read arguments in a sequence into separate variables.
> > Basically, I want to use a Per1 idiom and do this:
> >
> >     (cmd, host, user, key) = tuple(sys.argv)
>
> No need for the tuple() or the () on the LHS:
>
> cmd, host, user, key = sys.argv
>
> Will work just ine.

True (and I fully agree with your implication that it is
preferable: more readable, &c).

This will give errors if len(sys.argv) != 4.


> If you want padding, just roll your own class:
>
> class PaddedSeq:
>
> def __init__(self, s, n):
> self.s = s
> self.n = n
>
> def __len__(self):
> return self.n
>
> def __getitem__(self, i):
> if not (0<=i<n):
> raise IndexError
> try:
> return self.s[i]
> except IndexError:
> return None
>
> cmd, host, something, something_else = PaddedSeq(sys.argv, 4)

Actually, I think this is more complex than needed for the purpose
at hand (it may come in handy for some other uses, of course).


I would do it, not with a powerful, flexible class, but rather
with a tiny, little, extremely-simple function:

def padSequence(seq, length):
    return (tuple(seq)+(None,)*length)[:length]

Unfortunately, tuples and lists cannot be concatenated, which
is why we need to cast the sequence into a definite form here --
choosing list would of course work just as well:

def padSequence(seq, length):
    return (list(seq)+[None]*length)[:length]

or, one could, I guess, typeswitch, but that would (IMHO) be
an unwarranted increase in complexity.  Only if measurements
should show that 'extra/avoidable work' performed in this
function is a bottleneck for the application, would I think
it worthy to add complications for performance reasons; in
most cases, "we ain't gonna need it", and (IMHO) providing
a solution that is as simple as we can get away with is a
good general strategy.


Anyway, the use would now still be:

cmd, host, something, something_else = padSequence(sys.argv, 4)

no matter how padSequence is internally implemented.


Alex





From donn at u.washington.edu  Tue Jan  9 14:21:21 2001
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: 9 Jan 2001 19:21:21 GMT
Subject: mxTools (was Re: why no "do : until"?)
References: <Iw5jLKALa0W6Ewjq@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>  <Pine.LNX.4.30.0101092015010.5204-100000@fep132.fep.ru> <mailman.979066090.17094.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <93fobh$rqs$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>

I have never used mxDateTime, so I have 0 cents on that, but I have
used mxTextTools.  I found it to be efficient and powerful, and ought
to be useful in a significant number of applications and modules
that have text to parse -- if it were already available with the
distribution.

	Donn Cave, donn at u.washingotn.edu


From victor at prodigy.net  Wed Jan 17 09:54:52 2001
From: victor at prodigy.net (Victor Muslin)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 14:54:52 GMT
Subject: How to call a stored procedure?
References: <3a64c959.600874890@localhost>
Message-ID: <3a65aff6.659911453@localhost>

Thanks to everyone for your help. For those who may come across the
same problem the answer for Oracle via ODBC is:

cur.execute("{call delete_server(1)}")

Apparently had to use "call" instead of "execute" and had to use { }
around the statement!

On Tue, 16 Jan 2001 22:31:06 GMT, victor at prodigy.net (Victor Muslin)
wrote:

>I am using Python 1.5.2 on WindowsNT.
>
>I have a stored procedure defined in Oracle:
>
>CREATE OR REPLACE PROCEDURE DELETE_SERVER
>(
>        SERVER_ID_ARG   IN NUMBER
>)
>AS
>BEGIN
>        DELETE FROM SERVER WHERE SERVER_ID = SERVER_ID_ARG;
>COMMIT;
>END DELETE_SERVER;
>/
>
>Calling it from SQLPLUS works file:
>
>	SQL> execute delete_server(1);
>
>However when I try calling it from Python it gives me an error. Here's
>the Python program:
>
>import dbi, odbc
>import sys
>cs = 'db/user/password'
>
>dbconn = odbc.odbc(cs)
>cur = dbconn.cursor()
>cur.execute("execute vmuslin.delete_adserver(3)");
>
>
>The error I get is:
>
>Traceback (innermost last):
>  File "E:\dev\dclk\eng\src\apps\ADMIN_~1\xx.py", line 7, in ?
>    cur.execute("execute vmuslin.delete_adserver(3)");
>dbi.program-error: [Microsoft][ODBC driver for
>Oracle][Oracle]ORA-00900: invalid SQL statement in EXEC
>
>Is it not possible to call stored procedures from Python?



From fredrik at effbot.org  Fri Jan 26 12:11:53 2001
From: fredrik at effbot.org (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 17:11:53 GMT
Subject: The fundamentals...
References: <F8Jb6.30683$pp2.2619941@news3.cableinet.net> <mailman.980380532.28633.python-list@python.org> <94sa4a$vo8$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <tdic6.9125$AH6.1488028@newsc.telia.net>

"mspiggie at my-deja.com" wrote:
> I have been trying to find a way to use replace() to perform more than
> one replacement within a given file.  For instance, suppose I needed to
> replace ". " with "\n", but also need to replace "!" with "exclamation"
> and "?" with "question".  I have tried several approaches to this, but
> none of my neophyte ideas have produced satisfying results.

here's one way to do it:

http://www.deja.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=672888429

import re, string

class MultiReplace:
    def __init__(self, repl_dict):
        # "compile" replacement dictionary

        # assume char to char mapping
        charmap = map(chr, range(256))
        for k, v in repl_dict.items():
            if len(k) != 1 or len(v) != 1:
                self.charmap = None
                break # cannot use translate
            charmap[ord(k)] = v
        else:
            self.charmap = string.join(charmap, "")
            return

        # string to string mapping; use a regular expression
        keys = repl_dict.keys()
        keys.sort() # lexical order
        pattern = string.join(map(re.escape, keys), "|")
        self.pattern = re.compile(pattern)
        self.dict = repl_dict

    def replace(self, str):
        # apply replacement dictionary to string
        if self.charmap:
            return string.translate(str, self.charmap)
        def repl(match, get=self.dict.get):
            item = match.group(0)
            return get(item, item)
        return self.pattern.sub(repl, str)

r = MultiReplace({"spam": "eggs", "spam": "eggs"})
print r.replace("spam&eggs")

r = MultiReplace({"a": "b", "b": "a"})
print r.replace("keaba")

r = MultiReplace({". ": "\n", "!": "exclamation", "?": "question"})
print repr(r.replace("look. an albatross !"))

Cheers /F

<!-- (the eff-bot guide to) the standard python library:
http://www.pythonware.com/people/fredrik/librarybook.htm
-->




From fredrik at effbot.org  Fri Jan  5 11:02:53 2001
From: fredrik at effbot.org (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 16:02:53 GMT
Subject: How to DECREF an Python object to return?
References: <934qg0$l07$1@news1.kornet.net>
Message-ID: <Nem56.3856$Qb7.504323@newsb.telia.net>

Jae-wook Ahn wrote:
> 5. return the tuple object ( return PyBuildValue("O", tuple) )
>
> Because I want the tuple get returned, I can't free it before returning it,
> but after I return it, the function I created finishes. How can I get the
> tuple back and free the memory?

in this case, you can simply return the tuple:

    return tuple;

:::

In the general case, you can store the return value
in a temporary variable:

    PyObject* result;

    ...

    result = PyBuildValue("OO", tuple, othertuple);

    Py_DECREF(tuple);
    Py_DECREF(othertuple);

    return result;

Hope this helps!

</F>




From ben.hutchings at roundpoint.com  Thu Jan 25 18:22:29 2001
From: ben.hutchings at roundpoint.com (Ben Hutchings)
Date: 25 Jan 2001 15:22:29 -0800
Subject: CreateProcess and .py file
References: <980270342.658021@osiris.esoterica.pt>
Message-ID: <ulmrz5ia2.fsf@roundpoint.com>

"Jos? Rui Faustino de Sousa" <jrfsousaREMOVE005946EA at esoterica.pt> writes:

> Hi!
> 
> Does anyone have any idea how to "convince" CreateProcess to create a
> process out of a python script file (or any non .exe "executable" for
> that matter...)?
<snip>

This is a Windows-specific question that does not belong in
comp.lang.c (and maybe not even comp.lang.python).  The answer is that
if you want to use the shell's file associations you should use
ShellExecute or ShellExecuteEx.  CreateProcess is a low-level
function; file associations are high-level.

-- 
Any opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily those of Roundpoint.


From dubois at users.sourceforge.net  Mon Jan  8 19:38:29 2001
From: dubois at users.sourceforge.net (Paul F. Dubois)
Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2001 00:38:29 GMT
Subject: CXX/Array.h's Py::Array samples or documentation?
References: <XHs66.282$ip2.91379@news.pacbell.net>
Message-ID: <94t66.101552$A06.3538385@news1.frmt1.sfba.home.com>

The problem is that Numeric arrays do not have the equivalent of "append".
There is a function concatenate and you may find it easiest just to use the
C API of Python to execute this routine and capture the result.

Array is not documented because it is just there as an example, not a
completed work.
A frightening number of people have found it useful so it would be nice if
someone fleshed it out some.

Numeric's documentation is at numpy.sourceforge.net.

"Phlip" <phlip_cpp at my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:XHs66.282$ip2.91379 at news.pacbell.net...
> Pythonesqueise:
>
> I want to pass a NumPy multiarray into a C++ function (incidentally
> bound by SWIG), and wrap it with the CXX module's Py::Array class.
>
> Then I want to increase the volume of this multiarray, fill it full of
> data, and pass it back up. Client code in Pythonland will then ufunc the
> data and do other terrible things to it.
>
> I can't figure out how to extend the array. It does not seem to have a
> "push" feature.
>
> So I think I can allocate a new array of the correct dimensions; pack it,
> and assign it into the target array. But the example code for Py::Array
> only shows how to create it with one dimension.
>
> E-searching for "cxx" and "array" returns many, many interesting pages
that
> will distract me learning new things about completely unrelated projects.
> The CXX documentation was wrought before Array.h was added.
>
> Is there any example code or documentation I'm missing for Py::Array? Or
> multiarray?
>
> --
> Phlip
> http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?PhlIp




From claird at starbase.neosoft.com  Wed Jan 24 16:46:13 2001
From: claird at starbase.neosoft.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: 24 Jan 2001 15:46:13 -0600
Subject: what GUI, please advise
References: <3A6F18F2.536F27FE@crepido.com> <3A6F0B27.A88D11C9@crepido.com> <756399CF731B46D9.57530C0D0C9C2171.472E737DF76189F7@lp.airnews.net> <mailman.980360668.7701.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7DA74694B63ED42A.83CB11913E3910C5.C8BE5B392AC1AC5C@lp.airnews.net>

In article <mailman.980360668.7701.python-list at python.org>,
Moshe Zadka  <moshez at zadka.site.co.il> wrote:
>On Wed, 24 Jan 2001, Marco =?iso-8859-1?Q?Seiri=F6?= <marco at crepido.com> wrote:
>> Well, something like this...
>> 
>> - I'm going to run mostly on Unix, although it would be nice
>> to be able to recycle my GUI knowledge when forced to
>> write for Windows. Mac, not very important...
>> 
>> - A GUI builder is a very big advantage. allmost a must.
>> 
>> - I like there to be all the widgets one would expect from
>> the Windows world.
>> 
>> - Easy of use for the programmer.
>
>Check out wxPython and Tkinter. I think Boa-Constructor is a gui
>builder for wxWindows, but you might have more trouble building
>it on exotic platforms.
			.
			.
			.
My first thought was that PyQt, with Qt Designer,
seems like a natural.
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at NeoSoft.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://starbase.neosoft.com/~claird/home.html


From sholden at holdenweb.com  Wed Jan 31 19:18:59 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 19:18:59 -0500
Subject: redirecting output
References: <3A789343.48002B2C@ic.sunysb.edu>
Message-ID: <n92e6.622$j4.34767@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com>

"Jp Calderone" <jcaldero at ic.sunysb.edu> wrote in message
news:3A789343.48002B2C at ic.sunysb.edu...
>
>
>   I've attached the python interpreter to a server,
> essentially letting people connect to the given address
> and port and pump stuff into it.  What I can't figure out
> is how I might go about redirecting the output from some
> of the builtin functions - dir(), print, etc, to their
> socket.  Is this possible?
>
Interesting idea, with some interesting security aspects!
The dir() function doesn't do any output: it just produces a list.

"print", of course, isn't a statement... but you should be able to
redirect its output by binding sys.stdout to the socket for the duration
of the session.

>  Thanks in advance,
>    Jp
>
regards
Steve




From greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz  Tue Jan 23 17:55:04 2001
From: greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (Greg Ewing)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 11:55:04 +1300
Subject: Control codes (Re: Replacing control characters.)
References: <94ifec$ggt$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <kusnmb86ts.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>
Message-ID: <3A6E0BC8.7260CFA8@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz>

Erno Kuusela wrote:
> 
> C-M would be '\x0d'. you can look at the ascii(7) manual page

A useful thing to know is that ^A is chr(1). So if
you know the letter you can just count up from there,
e.g. M is the 13th letter of the alphabet, so
^M is chr(13).

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept, University of Canterbury,	  
Christchurch, New Zealand
To get my email address, please visit my web page:	  
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg


From max at alcyone.com  Fri Jan 19 00:29:21 2001
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 21:29:21 -0800
Subject: Interesting "gotme"
References: <t6fem95tt32o1f@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <3A67D0B1.EB83C0A9@alcyone.com>

Andrew Henshaw wrote:

> I had a list that I wanted to sort, except that I wanted the 0th
> element to
> stay put.  So I smugly coded:
> 
> a[1:].sort()
> 
> and went on my merry way.  Later, I tracked down a bug  to the fact
> that I
> really had not sorted a[1:].  Of course, I had sorted a copy of a[1:],
> which
> was immediately discarded.

Yep.  List slices make copies.

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, US / 37 20 N 121 53 W / ICQ16063900 / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Youth is a period of missed opportunities.
\__/ Cyril Connolly
    REALpolitik / http://www.realpolitik.com/
 Get your own customized newsfeed online in realtime ... for free!


From NOSPAM at pacificnet.net  Thu Jan 18 22:56:11 2001
From: NOSPAM at pacificnet.net (Ian L)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 03:56:11 GMT
Subject: generating simple graphs and chart images in python
References: <aVK96.3220$tD2.216083@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <94890m$9th$1@news.inet.co.th>
Message-ID: <vVO96.4875$tD2.215946@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>

Thanks,

I actually found that site wandering around my own, but i havent had a
chance to try it out yet.

thanks for the help


"Prateep Siamwalla" <teep at inet.co.th> wrote in message
news:94890m$9th$1 at news.inet.co.th...
> could this be what you are looking for?
>
> http://athani.pair.com/msteed/software/gdchart/
>
>
> -teep
>
> Ian L <NOSPAM at pacificnet.net> wrote in message
> news:aVK96.3220$tD2.216083 at newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
> > Hey,
> >
> > Could anyone point me in the right direction as to how i can generate
some
> > simple graphs dynamically in python? I want to make something like a bar
> > graph, or line graph?
> >
> >
>
>




From tim.one at home.com  Mon Jan 29 18:23:59 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 18:23:59 -0500
Subject: "in" for dicts (was: Python 2.1 function attributes)
In-Reply-To: <954f49$b3k$1@news.udel.edu>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCCEBHIMAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Terry Reedy]
> Comparers of Perl and Python constantly notice that Perl is (was?) faster
> in its equivalent of the new 'for l in f.xreadlines()'.

is/was varies by platform.  In general, though, Python's line-at-a-time file
input is threadsafe while Perl's isn't, and we still pay something for that;
we also haven't pulled the platform-dependent tricks Perl does to optimize
char-at-a-time reading the way vendors *should* optimize fgets() but almost
never do (Tru64 Unix appears to be the sole probable exception to date).  So
expect Perl to remain significantly faster for this on most boxes, but no
longer factors of 5-40 times faster.

> My first thought was 'hope this is enough faster to quiet some of
> the noise.
>
> Python won't be the first system to optimize a common 'benchmark'.

I couldn't care less about this in a benchmark context.  Real-life
file-munging applications generally aren't rocket science, and I/O time is
often the dominant part.  So it was real programs running scads slower that
I was concerned about -- speeding a very common operation isn't just
marketing fluff.

if-we-cared-about-benchmarks-we'd-make-fibonacci-a-builtin<wink>-ly
    y'rs  - tim




From bragib at my-deja.com  Thu Jan  4 13:24:25 2001
From: bragib at my-deja.com (bragib at my-deja.com)
Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 18:24:25 GMT
Subject: Setting environment for current shell
Message-ID: <932f4d$n0r$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

How do you set an environment for the shell you are running python in.
os.system() spawns its own shell.  I would like to gain access to the
parent shell.  Is there a module for that?

Bragi


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From andreas at andreas-jung.com  Mon Jan 15 05:13:19 2001
From: andreas at andreas-jung.com (Andreas Jung)
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 11:13:19 +0100
Subject: pmz variable in html
In-Reply-To: <93u9k7$ris$1@nnrp1.deja.com>; from tam_dominic@my-deja.com on Mon, Jan 15, 2001 at 07:41:59AM +0000
References: <93u9k7$ris$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <20010115111319.A2411@yetix.sz-sb.de>

I will check the problem. Please report bugs directly to me
or use the mailing lists for PMZ (see http://sourceforge.net/projects/pmz/)

Andreas




From ljohnson at resgen.com  Mon Jan  8 10:50:46 2001
From: ljohnson at resgen.com (Lyle Johnson)
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 09:50:46 -0600
Subject: trying to create python wrapper for cdk using swig
References: <93cec4$ep8$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <t5jo9rp96rps30@corp.supernews.com>

> Then we compile thus:
> gcc -fPIC -g -O2 -I/usr/include/python1.5 -I/usr/local/include -
> DHAVE_CONFIG_H -c ./label_wrap.c
> gcc -shared label_wrap.o -o labelcmodule.so
> These also do not produce any errors.
>
> Then we test our wrapper by importing label into python. This produces
> the following error:
> ImportError: ./labelcmodule.so: undefined symbol: CDKDEBUG

Dubal,

I'm not familiar with CDK itself, I think you probably need to modify the
link line shown above so that it links the CDK library into your Python
extension module, e.g.

        gcc -shared label_wrap.o -o labelcmodule.so -L/usr/local/lib -lCDK

The last argument (-lCDK) may need to be modified depending on the library's
name; here I'm assuming it's "libCDK.a" or "libCDK.so". If CDK itself
depends on *other* libraries you may also have to add those to the end of
the link line -- but start out with what I've shown here.

Hope this helps,

Lyle





From mertz at gnosis.cx  Tue Jan 23 23:01:55 2001
From: mertz at gnosis.cx (Dr. David Mertz)
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 23:01:55 -0500
Subject: Complete list of Python IDEs (fwd)
Message-ID: <zOlb6kKkXYwf092yn@bellatlantic.net>                         

ahopkins at dynacare.com (Albert Hopkins) wrote
| I was able to quickly compile a list at
| http://starship.python.net/~marduk/pythonide.html

This is a nice list that Albert Hopkins was kind enough to compile.  I
will be publishing some articles reviewing a number of these, to appear
on webreview.com and in my _Charming Python_ column at ibm.com/developer
(as a roundup).  It will be a little while until such articles actually
appear though.

In the meanwhile, Albert might want to add a few others to the list.  I
have not had the opportunity to use all of these yet, but hopefully I
will.

  Black Adder
  - http://thekompany.com/products/blackadder/
    (terribly unreliable web server)
  - Supposedly for Win32 and Linux

  PythonWin
  - http://activestate.com/Products/ActivePython/
  - For Win32
  - Maybe Komodo is intended to supercede this, since it is from the same
    place... but PythonWin is worth checking out in itself.

  PythonWorks Pro
  - http://www.pythonware.com/products/works/index.htm
  - Win32, Linux, Solaris
  - Commercial (for lots of money), so it needs to be a lot better than
    free stuff (I haven't evaluated whether it is yet).

Also a note.  I love FTE, but it does not have a Python mode in the
current source distribution.  To get that, you need to go to
http://www.vex.net/~x/python_stuff.html#fte to download the mode
configuration.  And you'll need to recompile the configuration to take
advantage of this (I also recommend changing a couple other files to get
the python mode into some menus... if anyone requests it, I can make my
changed configuration files, and slightly different Python mode file,
available).

Well, I suppose one more thing.  I can probably name at least a dozen
other general purpose editors that have a certain amount of Python
support.  It might make sense to separate the general editors from the
python-specific IDEs. Just my opinion though; it is up to Albert to
decide what he thinks is best.

Yours, David...




From s2mdalle at titan.vcu.edu  Fri Jan 12 16:22:43 2001
From: s2mdalle at titan.vcu.edu (David Allen)
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 21:22:43 GMT
Subject: A small suggestion for Python
References: <3A5F27F7.30268D9A@erols.com> <93nf0g$amfvv$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <DAK76.5211$jk6.1231577@typhoon2.ba-dsg.net>

In article <93nf0g$amfvv$1 at ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>, "Emile van Sebille"
<emile at fenx.com> wrote:

> If such a thing were to be added, might it also be good to raise an
> exception when not assigning the return value?   If so, perhaps a nothing
> would not object to being a sink hole (ala /dev/null).

I don't know.  It would annoy the hell out of me
if I had to put map() calls that I wasn't using
the result of in a try block.

Say you have a function called "send_file" that
sends a file to some host.  And you have an array
of files.  It's easy to say

map(send_file, myfiles)

and be done with it.  I don't think that should
raise an Exception, do you?

The behavior that the function returns something is
explicit, but that it returns something, and forcing
you to do something about the fact that it returns
something are totally different things.

-- 
David Allen
http://opop.nols.com/
----------------------------------------
Majority, n.: That quality that distinguishes a crime from a law


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sat Jan  6 13:51:35 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2001 19:51:35 +0100
Subject: 2001 Enchancement Wishlist
References: <3A4CEACB.220998A0@javanet.com> <Ro736.2511$Qb7.273102@newsb.telia.net> <92j83r13gh@news1.newsguy.com> <20001231175940.A5435@xs4all.nl> <008301c07501$c036ae40$43931497@martelli> <20010104165116.F2467@xs4all.nl> <008601c07675$0adf2020$102b2bc1@cadlab.it> <20010104203232.P402@xs4all.nl> <006801c0769b$ac0cc3a0$9d8a1a97@martelli> <20010105110459.Q402@xs4all.nl> <mailman.978706087.24274.python-list@python.org> <937l3u$gbi$1@slb2.atl.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <937pl001peq@news1.newsguy.com>

"Andrew Dalke" <dalke at acm.org> wrote in message
news:937l3u$gbi$1 at slb2.atl.mindspring.net...
    [snip]
>   proxy = Proxy(...)
>   sys.modules[module_name] = proxy
>
> In other words, what you import doesn't need to be a module.
> It can be a class instance instead - or any other data type.

Now THAT is interesting!  I would never have guessed that the
items in sys.modules need not be module objects.  Is this
documented, something I can rely on forevermore and just
happened not to notice in my study, or just an accident of the
current implementation which might go away anytime?

> This makes it possible to emulate the module __getattr__
> behaviour without changing the definition of a module.

Definitely.  If a module can overrite its own entry in sys.modules
with any other object-type, and this is 'solid' (documented, and
going to stay), then there is no particular need for any changes
to module-objects; it's not a _frequent_ occurrence for a module
to want to "take deep control of its own fate" (__setattr__ and
friends), so, when the requirement does arise, satisfying it with
the "overwrite sys.modules entry" hack seems OK to me.  Neat...!


Alex





From slhath at home.com  Sat Jan 20 08:34:15 2001
From: slhath at home.com (Scott Hathaway)
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 13:34:15 GMT
Subject: pyXML support for XSL tranformations??
Message-ID: <rtga6.18098$bb.708443@news1.rdc1.tx.home.com>

Using the Microsoft tools, you can load an XML document, then load and XSL
or XSLT document into memory and then call nodeTransform to blend the two
together and then spit it back out.

Is there a way to do this with pyXML or any other python xml library?

Scott




From fpm at u.washington.edu  Tue Jan 16 10:59:21 2001
From: fpm at u.washington.edu (Frank Miles)
Date: 16 Jan 2001 15:59:21 GMT
Subject: Newbie question: python debugger ?
Message-ID: <941r4p$urs$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>

I've about accepted that I can't use ddd to debug python scripts.  The
version that debian(linux) [0.4] has doesn't set breakpoints.  And now I
find that I can't seem to read the values of class variables of the form
self.var_name.

Does 0.5 fix the self.var_name problem?  Are there other/better alternatives
to debugging Python scripts?

TIA....

	-frank

-- 


From othello at javanet.com  Tue Jan 23 14:37:36 2001
From: othello at javanet.com (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 14:37:36 -0500
Subject: Markov.py
References: <94eavq$5cl$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <3A6DDD80.6DA38FB8@javanet.com>

cpsoct at my-deja.com wrote:

> I found the following script in the mac standard distribution (see path
> below). It seems to be Guido's, i am not sure however, i am at a loss
> as to how to use this. I was unable to run it and there is not
> documentation. In otherwords, i put on my detective hat but was still
> unable to get the thing to run. Anyone use this and can explain to me
> how? The script is a bit to big and complex for my level of python kno-
> how, but how sweet would it be to be able to make a markov chain in
> python without having to re-invent the wheel. Particularly since i
> wouldn't be able to in this case!

In chapter 3 of their book, The Practice of Programming, Brian Kernighan and
Rob Pike compared six versions of the Markov program written with different
languages or language features.  They compared speed, lines of source, and
style.

Markov.py gives comparative results for Python. The book includes a  program
spec, algorithm analysis, sample inputs and outputs, and some testing ideas.

G'luck,

Raymond Hettinger
othello at javanet.com




From aweis at gmx.de  Thu Jan 18 14:10:07 2001
From: aweis at gmx.de (Arnold Weis)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 19:10:07 GMT
Subject: help retrieving / storing info in dictionary or gadfly
References: <mailman.979558156.10464.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3a673ed8.33748467@News.CIS.DFN.DE>

"Tim Peters" <tim.one at home.com> wrote:

>Come now:  2^128 is only 130 <wink>.  All right, if he meant 2**128, I
>agree.
>
>speaking-python-in-pythonland-ly y'rs  - tim
>

He certainly meant 2L**128.

and watching for OverflowErrors-ly y'rs  - arnold   :-))



From sandj.williams at gte.net  Thu Jan 11 11:43:32 2001
From: sandj.williams at gte.net (Steve Williams)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 16:43:32 GMT
Subject: ActivePython2.0 - Server Side objects for ASP problem
References: <3A5DD081.F37275A@gte.net> <93klt8$qon$1@plutonium.compulink.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3A5DE403.33E323A@gte.net>

gbreed at cix.compulink.co.uk wrote:

> In article <3A5DD081.F37275A at gte.net>, sandj.williams at gte.net (Steve
> Williams) wrote:
>
> [snip]

>
> Dude!  The subject line says "Server Side objects".  ASP can indeed call
> server side objects.  The client doesn't have to know anything about them.
>
> The following may well be problems, but I've not had much trouble with
> Python COM servers.  Now DCOM, that's a different kettle of ball games ...
>

[snip]

Arrgh!  COM, COM, COM.  Yes, of course.  There is no problem.  Please return
to your cubicles.






From phawkins at spamnotconnact.com  Mon Jan 22 14:54:38 2001
From: phawkins at spamnotconnact.com (Patricia Hawkins)
Date: 22 Jan 2001 14:54:38 -0500
Subject: how to test for nesting inlist
References: <94bhte$4iv$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <94bvgu0kt4@news2.newsguy.com> <94ea6k$4uc$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <mailman.980119825.5586.python-list@python.org> <94h7pi$b86$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <94hau902rvd@news1.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <wkn1cjjrb5.fsf@mail.connact.com>

>>>>> "AM" == Alex Martelli <aleaxit at yahoo.com> writes:

AM> <cpsoct at my-deja.com> wrote in message news:94h7pi$b86$1 at nnrp1.deja.com...
>> What are list comprehensions? I have looked and looked and looked in
>> books and on www.python.org and i see no mention of these. Is this

AM> A list comprehension is a syntax form such as:

AM>     [<expression> for <var> in <sequence>]

Like this:

def howDeep2(x):
	if type(x) != type([]):
		return 0
	return 1 + reduce(max, [howDeep(y) for y in x])

-- 
Patricia J. Hawkins
Hawkins Internet Applications, LLC




From Daniel.Kinnaer at AdValvas.be  Wed Jan  3 04:02:45 2001
From: Daniel.Kinnaer at AdValvas.be (Daniel)
Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 09:02:45 GMT
Subject: Electronic edition of 'The Standard Python Library'
References: <t7746.63812$59.17990421@news3.rdc1.on.home.com> <4f746.2529$AH6.401534@newsc.telia.net> <uDa46.65273$59.18402781@news3.rdc1.on.home.com> <3A517247.1B79FFC2@ieeeSPAMnot.org>
Message-ID: <3a52e946.1849682@news.skynet.be>

On Tue, 02 Jan 2001 06:21:18 GMT, "John D. Gorman"
<jdgorman at ieeeSPAMnot.org> wrote:


>    I just tried my copy today (2 Jan) and it works fine .  The Fatbrain
>registration process does deposit a key in the registry at
>HKEY_CURRENT_USER->Software->Fatbrain->ematter->EB00002582. In there is a 161
>byte key labeled "PDF 1.1" that contains binary data.
>

I bought my book on 27/12/2000 and I don't find anything in the
registry, thuogh.   Along with the .PDF I received a file with the
extension .RMF.  It is an <XML>document which contains the license key
and so on, and acts as a plug-in for Acrobat Reader 4.05c.

I've been searching for the zipped examples as well, but can not find
them.  I e-mailed /F about this, but I'm sure he's on a pretty tight
time schedule.  I wouldn't mind receiving them, though.

best regards,

Daniel



From katz at Glue.umd.edu  Wed Jan 31 22:46:41 2001
From: katz at Glue.umd.edu (Roy Katz)
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 22:46:41 -0500
Subject: function attributes are like function objects
In-Reply-To: <95acpj$sbe$1@tyfon.itea.ntnu.no>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0101242015290.2444-100000@z.glue.umd.edu> <mailman.980400568.16791.python-list@python.org> <3A78AE8D.C9D25694@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz> <95acpj$sbe$1@tyfon.itea.ntnu.no>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0101312232120.6444-100000@z.glue.umd.edu>

Oh, good, perhaps a calll for a Py3k suggestion?

idea:

Perhaps replace def/class with a general 'def' which would
allow the definition of 
 
   - a standard class
   - a function
   - an instance method
   - a class method
   - a singleton class

all through a single, consistent syntax. 
lists, strings, dicts, ints and other types would be subclass-able. 

This would solve the following current problems:

   - Python lacks class methods 
   - Current Python has no support for subclassing from primitive
     types. 
    
I really would like that -- provided it is consistent and not
occam's-razor syntax extension. 

I had an idea where one could write

  def f(x):   pass
  def C:
    def f(self):  pass
    def g():      pass  # where some new syntax indicates that g is static

    print 'hi'          # C is like a function and a class in one. 

and you could call f(3), C.g(), C() to call C as a function.. 
that'd fill those requirements... sort of. 


On the other hand, maybe there needs to be a distinct separation between
class and function;  I think right now that function attributes are a
waste when the functions can use (1) global values,
(2) 'call-by-reference' (er, mutable, right?) object parameters in which
to hold values, or (3) be implemented as function objects, with all being
viable alternatives.  


(1)  

    state = 123

    def f(): 
      return state

(2) 

     class stateHolder:
       state = 0
       def __init__(self, state): self.state = state

     state = stateHolder( 123 )

     def f( s )    # s is a stateHolder
        return s.state 


(3) 

     class func:
        state = 123
        def f(self):
            return self.state

-------


there.  I prefer (3), (I'm CS-oriented :))


Roey
 



On Thu, 1 Feb 2001, Magnus Lie Hetland wrote:

> "Greg Ewing" <greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz> wrote in message
> news:3A78AE8D.C9D25694 at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz...
> > Sean Reifschneider wrote:
> > >
> > > It didn't really
> > > seem like they were missing so much as it seemed like they would act
> > > more like everything else now...
> >
> > Everything? What about lists, dicts, tuples, file
> > objects...?
> >
> > What's so special about functions that we need to
> > be able to plonk arbitrary attributes on them, but
> > not any other builtin types?
> 
> Now *that* would be nice (if we could do that, I mean).
> Everything as objects... SmallTalk lurking in the
> background. Sounds good to me...
> 
> --
> 
>   Magnus Lie Hetland      (magnus at hetland dot org)
> 
>  "Reality is what refuses to disappear when you stop
>   believing in it"                 -- Philip K. Dick
> 
> 
> 
> 



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Thu Jan 18 03:52:46 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 09:52:46 +0100
Subject: SQL-Statement with Python
References: <3A62E224.7AEE805E@students.uni-linz.ac.at> <93ut4q031hd@news1.newsguy.com> <28uc6ts3fn93pon3tahrvbqb26bc4of9hq@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <946cod230tl@news2.newsguy.com>

"Tim Roberts" <timr at probo.com> wrote in message
news:28uc6ts3fn93pon3tahrvbqb26bc4of9hq at 4ax.com...
> "Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> >import win32com.client
> >
> >connection = win32com.client.Dispatch("AdoDb.Connection")
> >connection.Provider = "Microsoft.Jet.OLEDB.4.0"
> >filename = r'd:\\mssdk\\bin\\nwind.mdb'
>
> Thank you for providing this simple and understandable ADODB example.  I
do
> have one nit in that last line.  I think you want EITHER the "r" prefix,
OR
> the double backslashes.  Including both is just too much of a good
thing...

Oops -- you're perfectly right!  Funny thing is that the code as I
posted it *DOES* work -- dunno who's removing the extra backslashes,
or why they don't hurt things.

Note that this is *NOT* a case where forward slashes can be used
instead of backward ones!  Changing the filename assignment to:

filename = 'd:/mssdk/bin/wind.mdb'

results in an exception on connection.Open:

pywintypes.com_error: (-2147352567, 'Exception occurred.', (0, 'Microsoft
JET Da
tabase Engine', "Could not find file 'd:\\mssdk\\bin\\wind.mdb'.", None,
5003024
, -2147467259), None)

yep, the exeption message DOES have backslashes again, and:

D:\Python20>dir d:\mssdk\bin\*.mdb
 Volume in drive D has no label.
 Volume Serial Number is 0498-B4C2

 Directory of d:\mssdk\bin

02/02/00  10:17p             1,558,528 nwind.Mdb
               1 File(s)      1,558,528 bytes
                            146,759,680 bytes free

Using:
filename = 'd:\\mssdk\\bin\\nwind.mdb'
or:
filename = r'd:\mssdk\bin\nwind.mdb'

works fine and seems more sensible.


Alex





From Jason.Tishler at dothill.com  Thu Jan 25 22:40:00 2001
From: Jason.Tishler at dothill.com (Jason Tishler)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 22:40:00 -0500
Subject: CHECK_IMPORT_CASE
In-Reply-To: <Pine.A32.3.90.1010125211440.16957B-100000@elvis.med.Virginia.EDU>; from sdm7g@Virginia.EDU on Thu, Jan 25, 2001 at 09:15:20PM -0500
References: <Pine.A32.3.90.1010125211440.16957B-100000@elvis.med.Virginia.EDU>
Message-ID: <20010125224000.F1148@dothill.com>

Steve,

On Thu, Jan 25, 2001 at 09:15:20PM -0500, Steven D. Majewski wrote:
> While looking for a way to solve the macosx case insensitivity import
> problem, I found in Python/import.c: 
> 
> #ifdef CHECK_IMPORT_CASE
> static int check_case(char *, int, int, char *);
> #endif
> 
> However, neither I nor the linker could find the implementation
> of check_case.

The three different check_case() implementations (win32, mac, and djgpp)
are right there in Python/import.c too.

> Is this a work in progress ? Does someone have a planned solution? 

Although the following is somewhat Cygwin specific, you may find some
of the information useful:

    http://sourceforge.net/patch/?func=detailpatch&patch_id=103154&group_id=5470

Jason

-- 
Jason Tishler
Director, Software Engineering       Phone: +1 (732) 264-8770 x235
Dot Hill Systems Corp.               Fax:   +1 (732) 264-8798
82 Bethany Road, Suite 7             Email: Jason.Tishler at dothill.com
Hazlet, NJ 07730 USA                 WWW:   http://www.dothill.com



From keisari_ at hotmail.com  Tue Jan  9 11:37:05 2001
From: keisari_ at hotmail.com (Joonas)
Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2001 18:37:05 +0200
Subject: Weird ftplib problem
Message-ID: <3A5B3E31.EC9FE6A6@hotmail.com>

I am using ftplib to transfer a file into a server.

When I run it in IDLE it works fine but when I run it from command line
by typing 'python ftp.py' it gives the following error message.

Traceback (innermost last):
  File "ftp.py" line 2, in ?
    siirto = FTP('ftp.saunalahti.fi')
  File ".\lib\ftplib.py", line 87, in __init__
    self.connect(host)
  File ".\lib\ftplib.py", line 98, in connect
    self.file = self.sock.makefile('r')
_socket.error: No makefile() function has been installed




###########ftp.py##############
from ftplib import FTP
siirto = FTP('ftp.saunalahti.fi')
siirto.set_debuglevel(1)
siirto.login("******","******")
siirto.cwd('public_html')
siirto.storbinary('STOR pic.gif' , open('pic.gif','rb') ,1024)
siirto.quit()
print "it works"
##############################

What could be wrong?

Joonas.


From sdm7g at virginia.edu  Tue Jan 23 17:57:48 2001
From: sdm7g at virginia.edu (Steven D. Majewski)
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 17:57:48 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Darwin1.2 [was: I mean *setup.py* ! ... ]
In-Reply-To: <Pine.NXT.4.21.0101231625550.228-100000@localhost.virginia.edu>
Message-ID: <Pine.NXT.4.21.0101231741110.228-100000@localhost.virginia.edu>


With this line:

  Darwin/*) LINKFORSHARED="-u __dummy -framework System -framework  Foundation" ;;

in Python2.1a1, the ObjC extensions build and work without any patching 
of the Python distribution on MacOSX using:

./configure  --with-framework --with-dyld --with-objc --with-suffix=.x
 

However, as both MacOSX public beta and the public source Darwin version
report themselves as "Darwin1.2" , I suspect that this is going to 
break the vanilla Darwin build, as it doesn't come with the Foundation
framework. 

I can't test that case, and I'm not sure what the solution should be,
but I wanted to post a notice just in case someone was trying to build
on the public source Darwin distribution and ran into that problem. 

( I'm not sure whether any of the above switches are a reliable 
  indicator of what should happen, given --with-objc could also 
  mean linking with OpenStep or GnuStep. ) 

-- Steve Majewski <sdm7g at Virginia.EDU> 




From abramsjc at my-deja.com  Mon Jan 15 12:11:16 2001
From: abramsjc at my-deja.com (abramsjc at my-deja.com)
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 17:11:16 GMT
Subject: ASP + SQL Server + Time object problem
References: <93np4p$lm$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <slrn95vghv.aqj.tim@degree.ath.cx> <93p88d013hg@news1.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <93vavc$ml0$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

Hi again, thanks for the responses.
Here's what I came across. I should have specified that I import a module
and within a class in that module is where the problem was being
experienced. I read the docs by that genuis guy Mark, but trying to use
the PyTime objects gave me errors about no __float__ attribute and other
errors when trying different methods.

> To return a string formatted as the long date in control panel
> time.strftime("%#c", time.localtime(int(timeObject)))

See that int() conversion, that fails. What I found out that it was because
the code lied in the module. If I return the time object to the top-level ASP
script, the int conversion works, PyTime objects work, it all works.
But inside that imported module nothing worked. Pretty weird. Anyone
know why?



In article <93p88d013hg at news1.newsguy.com>,
  "Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote:
> "Tim Hammerquist" <tim at degree.ath.cx> wrote in message
> news:slrn95vghv.aqj.tim at degree.ath.cx...
>     [snip]
> > Anyone in the newsgroup familiar with the object model of a "time
> > object"?
>
> Hammond's docs included with win32all document it this way:
>
> PyTime Object
> A Python object, representing an instant in time.
>
> Comments
> A PyTime object is used primarily when exchanging date/time information with
> other COM objects.
> Using int(timeObject) will return an integer compatible with the time
> module.
>
> Example
> To return a simple string
> time.ctime(int(timeObject))
>
> To return a string formatted as the long date in control panel
> time.strftime("%#c", time.localtime(int(timeObject)))
>
> See Also
> pywintypes::Time
>
> Methods
> Format
> Formats the time value
> __int__
> Used when an integer representation of the time object is required.
> __float__
> Used when a floating point representation of the time object is required.
> __print__
> Used when the time object is printed. tp_print
> __cmp__
> Used when time objects are compared. tp_compare
> __hash__
> Used when the hash value of an time object is required tp_hash
>
> Seems pretty good to me -- what's missing?
>
> Alex
>
>


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From thomas at xs4all.net  Tue Jan  2 11:19:39 2001
From: thomas at xs4all.net (Thomas Wouters)
Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2001 17:19:39 +0100
Subject: why no "do : until"?
In-Reply-To: <slrn94tqf3.150.grey@teleute.rpglink.com>; from grey@despair.rpglink.com on Sun, Dec 31, 2000 at 08:10:11AM -0000
References: <92jj3j$ff7$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <slrn94smds.150.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <FOt36.17$vd1.2224@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com> <slrn94t1vj.150.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <mqw36.50$9s1.10042@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com> <slrn94tqf3.150.grey@teleute.rpglink.com>
Message-ID: <20010102171939.A2467@xs4all.nl>

On Sun, Dec 31, 2000 at 08:10:11AM -0000, Steve Lamb wrote:

>     Whatever.  *plonk*

No, no. You are supposed to say 'bah' and dismiss the subject with a wave
of your paw -- and you should change your name to Dogbert first.

Quick-mention-math!-ly y'rs,

-- 
Thomas Wouters <thomas at xs4all.net>

Hi! I'm a .signature virus! copy me into your .signature file to help me spread!



From echapin at sympatico.ca  Mon Jan 15 18:10:17 2001
From: echapin at sympatico.ca (Elliott Chapin)
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 23:10:17 GMT
Subject: names
References: <pls86.100769$f36.4497959@news20.bellglobal.com> <slrn964p3g.2f5.andrew.spambgone.chatham@fizgig.dorm.duke.edu> <93umod02iem@news1.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <trL86.74752$n%.3041493@news20.bellglobal.com>

Thanks, all! I may approach the actual task I have in mind by designing a
class which adds a name to the attributes of its instances.

--

---------------------------------------------------------------

Elliott Chapin          www3.sympatico.ca/echapin
"Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:93umod02iem at news1.newsguy.com...
> "Andrew H. Chatham" <andrew.spambgone.chatham at duke.edu> wrote in message
> news:slrn964p3g.2f5.andrew.spambgone.chatham at fizgig.dorm.duke.edu...
> > On Mon, 15 Jan 2001 01:26:45 GMT, Elliott Chapin <echapin at sympatico.ca>
> wrote:
> > >How can I get the name of an object as a string? As a biginner I might
> > >imagine something like
> > >
> > >>>>b=[[1],[2]]
> > >>>>name(b)
> > >'b'
> >
> > You can't. The object doesn't know what it's name is, because the name
> > corresponds to the reference to the object, not the actual object. It's
> > sometimes tough to realize that variables don't store objects, they
store
> > references to objects.
>
> Right!  The only way I see to accomplish Elliott's request is to look
> through all variables and return the set of those whose references
> are identical to the one being asked for.  To do that in a function,
> while looking through the *caller*'s namespace, requires accessing
> the stack, which is done by raising and catching an exception; once
> that is done, the f_locals and f_globals attributes of the caller's
> frame object provide such access.
>
> All in all, something like:
>
> import sys
> def name(value):
>    try: raise 'foo'
>    except 'foo':
>        caller_frame = sys.exc_info()[2].tb_frame.f_back
>    names = []
>    caller_locals = caller_frame.f_locals
>    for vname, vval in caller_locals.items():
>        if vval is value: names.append(vname)
>    for vname, vval in caller_frame.f_globals.items():
>        if vval is value and not caller_locals.has_key(vname):
>            names.append(vname)
>    return names
>
> The name is somewhat misleading, since this function will not return
> a string -- rather, a list of strings which are variable names (directly
> accessible to the function's caller) naming the given value (it tries
> to check for _identity_ of value, with 'is', rather than _equality_
> as '==' would do; this is not fully reliable for immutable values, as
> it's up to the system whether to have the same identities for equal
> objects in that case).  It tries to take into account the scoping effect:
> it will not return a global variable name which, from the point of view
> of the caller, is 'shadowed' by a local-variable homonym.
>
> > >>>b = [[1],[2]]
> > >>>c = b
> >
> > c and b refer to the same list. If I then tried to hypothetical "name"
> > function, the list would have no idea whether to say 'c' or 'b'.
>
> Which is why my non-hypothetical proposed version, above, returns a
> list with both names:-).
>
>
> It's hard to see what such a 'name' function would be good for; maybe
> a quick-and-dirty detector for multiply-referenced values in interactive
> experimental development (one would then only care about mutable values,
> so the indeterminacy affecting immutable ones would not matter).  In
> point of fact, I think it's worth little except as a nice show-off for
> Python's abilities of introspection/reflection...:-).
>
>
> Alex
>
>
>




From mjackson at wc.eso.mc.xerox.com  Sat Jan 20 13:20:46 2001
From: mjackson at wc.eso.mc.xerox.com (Mark Jackson)
Date: 20 Jan 2001 18:20:46 GMT
Subject: PSU uses emacs?
References: <zoka6.19675$Mo6.204420@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <94cktu$d9c$1@news.wrc.xerox.com>

"Steve Holden" <sholden at holdenweb.com> writes:
> "D-Man" <dsh8290 at rit.edu> wrote in message
> news:mailman.979929746.2047.python-list at python.org...
> > On Fri, Jan 19, 2001 at 05:55:45PM +0100, Alex Martelli wrote:
> > |
> [ ... ]
> > | (shame's about to engulf me...).  I like :set expandtab always
> > | on -- no tab/space confusion; I also like :set ff unix, so that my
> > | scripts can be shared between Win and Unix machines (and why
> > | waste one byte per line to tell a 'carriage' that is not there
> > | to 'return' [to where?]...?!-).
> >
> > Exactly.  DOS/Windows never did operate from a teletype did it?  I
> > suppose no one will ever figure out why a system that began on the
> > teletype (Unix) doesn't use the extra character and a system that
> > didn't (DOS/Windows) does.
> >
> My guess is that the Unix implementors realised that whether to include a CR
> was a decision correctly left to the appropriate device driver. Whereas the
> implementors of DOS didn't really understand such refinements, and decided
> to put the CR in files so that any device could handle the output.
> 
> This is speculation, based on the philosophical attitudes I have observed in
> the two groups concerned. 8^} Who designed DOS anyway, Gary Kildall wasn't
> it?

That was CP/M, the 16-bit version of which was considered by IBM for
their PC but not chosen.  MS-DOS was first licensed and then purchased
by Microsoft from Seattle Computer Products.  It was written by Tim
Paterson; heavy CP/M influence is evident, but it was far from a
clone.  See Paul Ceruzzi, /A History of Modern Computing/.

-- 
Mark Jackson - http://www.alumni.caltech.edu/~mjackson
	The power of accurate observation is frequently called
	cynicism by those who don't have it.
			- George Bernard Shaw




From aahz at panix.com  Wed Jan 17 20:22:16 2001
From: aahz at panix.com (Aahz Maruch)
Date: 17 Jan 2001 17:22:16 -0800
Subject: Python 3000.  Here we go again.
References: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0101142011080.14128-100000@y.glue.umd.edu>
Message-ID: <945gg8$dtv$1@panix6.panix.com>

In article <Pine.GSO.4.21.0101142011080.14128-100000 at y.glue.umd.edu>,
Roy Katz  <katz at Glue.umd.edu> wrote:
>
>- has anyone been thinking about a new design for Python?
>- is there any moderated forum specifically for Py3k brainstorming? 

I think this is about as close as you'll get:

http://www.python9.org/p9-developers1.html
-- 
                      --- Aahz (Copyright 2001 by aahz at pobox.com)

Androgynous poly kinky vanilla queer het    <*>     http://www.rahul.net/aahz/
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6

A house is a machine to keep your cat dry.  --Aahz


From cg at schlund.de  Tue Jan 30 07:39:16 2001
From: cg at schlund.de (Carsten Gaebler)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 13:39:16 +0100
Subject: slow joinings of strings
References: <87ofwpnrpp.fsf@losthighway.ahoj.pl>
Message-ID: <3A76B5F4.A0D1E117@schlund.de>

Karol Bryd wrote:

> I want to read a file (0.6MB, 10000 lines) into memory, and want to do it as
> fast as possible, this code does it, but is terribly slow
> 
> fp = open(file, 'r')
> s = ''
> while 1:
>         line = fp.readline()
>         if line == '': break
>         s = s + line
> 
> (executing time 25 sec)

This should be faster:

s = open(file, 'r').read()


cg.


From glt at e-pack.net  Tue Jan 23 06:35:54 2001
From: glt at e-pack.net (Gilles Lenfant)
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 12:35:54 +0100
Subject: Editor font in IDLE (Linux)
References: <3A6C1221.9000302@e-pack.net> <Nl_a6.120350$n%.4011843@news20.bellglobal.com>
Message-ID: <3A6D6C9A.1090702@e-pack.net>

Bryan,

There is no "config-unix.txt" file in any Python related directory.
Perhaps you are using another IDLE version than mine (0.5).

Bryan Mongeau wrote:

>> Hi,
>> 
>> There's a hint in the EditorWindow module for changing the default font
>> and size for Win32 users.
>> What can a Linux IDLE user do to change the extreme small and ugly font
>> used in
>> IDLE (0.5) ?
>> 
>> TIA
>> 
>> Gilles
>> 
> 
> This is what I did ( shame-faced hack... ):
> 
> grep through the file config-unix.txt .
> 
> Change lines "font-name=" and "font-size=" to whatever you want. I use 
> terminal, size 12.
> 
> enjoy.
> 



From mok at imsb.au.dk  Fri Jan  5 08:14:34 2001
From: mok at imsb.au.dk (Morten Kjeldgaard)
Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 14:14:34 +0100
Subject: isnumeric (mhlib.py)
References: <3A548B2A.B45DC580@cs.utwente.nl> <D6156.14$XZ5.9704@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <3A55C8BA.F672EAA9@imsb.au.dk>

Steve Holden wrote:

>
> > I don't know what the meaning of isnumeric for mh is,
> > but why isn't numericprog simply like this:
> >
> > numericprog = re.compile('^[0-9]*$')
> >
> > Richard.
> >
> Again, if that will do for your purposes then go ahead and use it --
> although I suspect you might not want the empty string to be considered a
> number, in which case you might prefer the pattern to be
>
>     '^[0-9]+$'
>
> which will insist on seeing at least one digit.

... but this pattern excludes negative numbers, and positive numbers with an
explicit '+' sign in front. So

'^[+-]?[0-9]+$'

should be better.

/Morten

--
Morten Kjeldgaard                                | e-mail: mok at imsb.au.dk
Institute of Molecular and Structural Biology    | Phone : +45 89 42 50 26
Aarhus University                                | Fax   : +45 86 20 12 22
Gustav Wieds Vej 10, DK-8000 Aarhus C, Denmark   | Home  : +45 86 18 81 80





From scastell at sas.upenn.edu  Tue Jan 16 13:08:22 2001
From: scastell at sas.upenn.edu (Steven M. Castellotti)
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 13:08:22 -0500
Subject: Interacting with a spawned ssh session?
References: <mailman.979598720.6834.python-list@python.org> <3A645B09.73B54167@sas.upenn.edu> <20010116162503.3749.qmail@blagdon.ncl.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <3A648E16.AD232504@sas.upenn.edu>

	I'm aware of sftp, but we use openssh around here, and I would prefer
an open-source solution anyway. If I can get the program I am writing to
work, then I plan to release it all under the gpl. Also, since the users
are familiar with graphical ftp only, I could just as easily teach them
scp as teach them sftp. I would prefer to not force them into the
command line, since many are not comfortable with it. (The graphical
portion will be in pyGTK)

J.K.Wight at newcastle.ac.uk wrote:
> 
> In comp.lang.python you write:
> 
> >       True, the password will be stored plaintext in memory, and there will
> >be no way to ever consider this program "truly" secure, but I'm hoping
> >to use it to get a few of my users off of ftp, which will at least
> >increase security in general.
> 
> Can't help you with the python, but is there a reason why you can't
> use SSH2 (current version 2.4.0)? SSH2's sftp command provides ftp
> over an ssh channel. It's not graphical, but then your users won't
> have been used to graphical ftp with the ordinary command either. Of
> course it requires SSH2 at the remote end, but maybe you don't have
> control or influence over that.
> 
> Jim

-- 
Steve Castellotti
Systems Programmer
School of Arts and Sciences, University of Pennsylvania


From emile at fenx.com  Sat Jan  6 12:35:33 2001
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2001 09:35:33 -0800
Subject: Pythonian string manipulation.
References: <937if5$r9q$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <937l2a$8ukgp$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>

Also, using slices:

>>> s = 'hello, world'
>>> l = s.find(', ')
>>> s = s[l+2:] + s[l:l+2] + s[:l]
>>> s
'world, hello'

--

Emile van Sebille
emile at fenx.com
-------------------


<johnvert at my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:937if5$r9q$1 at nnrp1.deja.com...
> Hi,
>
> I was playing around with slices in Python (is that the
correct term?)
> and I tried, in order to switch the words `hello,' and
`world', to do:
>
> s = 'hello, world'
> l = s.find(',')
> s[0:l] = s[l + 1:]
>
> which in theory would seem to work, but I get the error:
>
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
> TypeError: object doesn't support slice assignment
>
> my two questions are: why isn't this allowed, and what is
the Pythonian
> way of doing this?
>
> Thanks,
>  -- John
>
>
> Sent via Deja.com
> http://www.deja.com/




From moshez at zadka.site.co.il  Sat Jan 13 20:27:05 2001
From: moshez at zadka.site.co.il (Moshe Zadka)
Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 03:27:05 +0200 (IST)
Subject: Web devel with python. Whats the best route?
In-Reply-To: <93plkv$c4e$4@newshost.accu.uu.nl>
References: <93plkv$c4e$4@newshost.accu.uu.nl>, <93pii2$c4c$2@newshost.accu.uu.nl> <mailman.979331115.13089.python-list@python.org> <mailman.979391354.21685.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <20010114012705.7BC64A828@darjeeling.zadka.site.co.il>

[Cliff Crawford]
> InterTran translates the phrase "Tim Peters" as "[Tim] Godfather".  :)
> Does anyone else think this is not just a coincidence, or is it
> just me? Creepy.

[Steve Holden]
> So he *is* a member of the PSU, or maybe even one of the leaders.
> I suspected this all along! Tim, why don't you come clean and
> confess -- the truth is out now. I don't know where you are hiding
> but it won't help you any longer.

[Tim Peters]
> All right, I've had it.  It's time to come clean!  Here's the truth
> about all this! Actually, I've assasinated the real Tim Peters
> a few months ago, just before the move to BeOpen. Since it seemed
> BeOpen were on to me, I engineered the move to Digital Creations.
> But now, it seems it is all out in the open. 
> From now on, I make the rules. Guido was a figurehead I need
> no longer. Revised schedule for Python 2.1 is on the way.
> Among the planned features:
> * Special syntax for referring to self (@x is equivalent to self.x)
> * The colons will be optional
> * An additional of alternative loop construct: loop/aslongas for
>   n-and-1/2 loops.

[Martijn Faassen]
> It appears there's some kind of bizarre interaction between 
> NNTP (or is it MailMan?) and temporal paradoxes here, that distorts
> messages on transmit, sometimes simply cutting out random parts.
> I wonder if the messages are received alright at the news-to-e-mail gateway, 
> or if there is some problem with a router in the middle.

[Moshe Zadka]
> Huh? I see no such thing at my end. What the hell are you talking
> about. All the messages I in python-list seem perfectly alright.
> Maybe your e-mail client has a problem? And don't try to tell
> me that the articles themselves are the problems. Are you
> going to blabber on about that damn PSU theory of yours?

[Martijn Faassen]
> Don't you look at what you're replying to today, Moshe? All these
> messages are cut off in the middle. Just like that.
> Could it be that the PSU is performing selective censoring
> on sensitive material?

Martijn, for the nth time, there is *no* PSU. There hasn't been,
and there never will be. This is all some crazy c.l.py'ish invention.
No one is cutting any messages in the middle, no one is trying to
censor anything. It's just a playful pythonic bout, with nothing
sinister behind it.

You'd almost think I was rewriting the messages I reply to,
to hear you talk.

can-we-return-to-the-usual-business-of-java/perl/smalltalk-bashing-ly 
y'rs, Z.
-- 
Moshe Zadka <sig at zadka.site.co.il>
This is a signature anti-virus. 
Please stop the spread of signature viruses!



From loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de  Mon Jan 15 18:22:44 2001
From: loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de (Martin von Loewis)
Date: 16 Jan 2001 00:22:44 +0100
Subject: Garbage Collection
References: <93uigd$om1$1@proxy.fe.internet.bosch.de>
Message-ID: <p6q1yu4s8mz.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>

"Jens Vogelgesang" <jens.vogelgesang at de.bosch.com> writes:

> 1) How can I free used memory.
>     myHash = {}, del(myHash}

That is exactly the way. With 

del myHash

(no parentheses), the dictionary is immediately released.

> 2) Can I force a Garbage Collection??

You don't need to. Python garbage collections works with reference
counting, as soon as the reference count drops to zero, the object is
automatically released, and its memory is reclaimed.

The only exception are cyclic structures; to collect those, you can
force collection via gc.collect().

Regards,
Martin



From dlopezp at norsistemas.es  Thu Jan  4 11:15:46 2001
From: dlopezp at norsistemas.es (David López)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 17:15:46 +0100
Subject: How to send cookies
Message-ID: <newscache$ylbn6g$ss1$1@news.cesatel.es>

Hello.

My question is about cookies. I don?t know how to send or receive cookies in
Python. Could someone give me a explained example?

      Thanks in advance.




From dsh8290 at rit.edu  Wed Jan 24 18:14:24 2001
From: dsh8290 at rit.edu (D-Man)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 18:14:24 -0500
Subject: what GUI, please advise
In-Reply-To: <7DA74694B63ED42A.83CB11913E3910C5.C8BE5B392AC1AC5C@lp.airnews.net>; from claird@starbase.neosoft.com on Wed, Jan 24, 2001 at 03:46:13PM -0600
References: <3A6F18F2.536F27FE@crepido.com> <3A6F0B27.A88D11C9@crepido.com> <756399CF731B46D9.57530C0D0C9C2171.472E737DF76189F7@lp.airnews.net> <mailman.980360668.7701.python-list@python.org> <7DA74694B63ED42A.83CB11913E3910C5.C8BE5B392AC1AC5C@lp.airnews.net>
Message-ID: <20010124181423.B26798@harmony.cs.rit.edu>

(steering the discussion in my direction ...)

What is the general feeling of GTK+ vs. wxWindows?

(I'm not really interested in Tk, Qt, Motif, MFC, etc)

I used GTK-- (the C++ bindings) and Glade on a project a while back.
I didn't have time then to learn how to properly use libglade.  It
seems that wxWindows is better at cross-platform functionality (for
now). 

How about the design of the object hierarchy?  I'm familiar with gtk,
how does wxWindows compare?

Is there a "wxlibglade" sort of tool?  This would be a big loss for
wx if there isn't.

How does Boa Constructor (or other builder) compare to Glade?  (I
don't want to pay $$ otherwise I might consider wxDesigner)


A bit about me:
	o 1 toolkit for all work (ie cross-platform, etc)
	  ( I like Linux and would develop on linux, but I want to let
	    Windo~1 users utilize my apps )
	o good object hierarchy
	o GUI builder
	o libglade-type runtime builder (if possible) (doesn't need to
	  be XML)
	o I like the GNOME desktop too

Thanks for the info and opinions.
-D




From joseamartin at venmex.com  Tue Jan 23 10:35:26 2001
From: joseamartin at venmex.com (Jose Martin)
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 11:35:26 -0400
Subject: Help for DCOracle examples
References: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0101201422310.13495-100000@fep132.fep.ru> <3A6A415B.D83D6173@cnri.reston.va.us>
Message-ID: <t6r9s7thmn2256@corp.supernews.com>

import Buffer, oci_, sys <===   Error     Must Import DCOracle
dbc=Connect("weiming/weiming")
c=dbc.cursor()
--------------------------------------------------------------------

try this...

import DCOracle
dbc=DCOracle.Connect(connectstring)

cur=dbc.cursor()

cur.execute('SELECT TABLE_NAME FROM TABS')
res=cur.fetchall()

for table in res:
        print table[0]






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From: marty at cisgate.com (Cisgate Hosting)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 18:49:06 +0800
Subject: Web Hosting only cost HK$50
Message-ID: <94u8fg$j9p39@rain.i-cable.com>

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From jasonic at nomadicsltd.com  Thu Jan 11 20:42:30 2001
From: jasonic at nomadicsltd.com (Jason Cunliffe)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 20:42:30 -0500
Subject: Python and Industry
References: <20010111172342.10148.00000934@ng-ca1.aol.com>
Message-ID: <t5so1ve4ko4m93@corp.supernews.com>

Crutoy <crutoy at aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010111172342.10148.00000934 at ng-ca1.aol.com...
> Hi , does anyone know how widly in an instries does python being used ? I
> looked at the syntax of it and read some stuff on it,it's interested i
just
> want to know if it's worth learning it. Thanks

YES




From tim.one at home.com  Fri Jan  5 03:05:29 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 03:05:29 -0500
Subject: Use of threading.Condition class
In-Reply-To: <OF4BEFC4FE.0DF66B93-ONC12569CA.0044F63C@lfpt.rwth-aachen.de>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCOENMIGAA.tim.one@home.com>

[vonWedel at lfpt.rwth-aachen.de]
> I'm trying to pass data between threads A and B. A notifies B
> to produce something and now I want the reference to the
> produced instance back in thread A.  The documentation for
> threading.Condition proposes something like
>
>    # Consume one item
>    cv.acquire()
>    while not an_item_is_available():
>        cv.wait()
>    get_an_available_item()
>    cv.release()
>
> for the consumer side. I don't understand the while loop around
> the cv.wait() statement -- wouldn't cv.wait() block anyway until
> cv.notify() has been called in the other thread?

Do yourself a favor, and write it that way whether you understand it or not
<0.1 wink>.

You've only got two threads today.  Tomorrow you may have one producer and
two consumers.  Then the loop is essential, else e.g. consumer 1 and
consumer 2 could both say "aha! there's something in the queue!" after a
single item was entered.  One of them would get it, and the other one would
blow up.  The loop is also essential in a two-thread world if the producer
may change its mind about whether something is available.  Writing it with a
loop, as suggested, makes it robust against all sorts of modifications in
the future.

If all you will ever have is two threads, and all you will ever pass is one
thing at a time, then a simpler mechanism (like an Event) could suffice.

Also look at the docs for the std Queue module, which supplies a long-tested
inter-thread queueing mechanism already written for you.

running-in-a-loop-prevents-you-from-falling-off-the-cliff-ly y'rs
    - tim




From donn at u.washington.edu  Tue Jan 30 12:16:12 2001
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: 30 Jan 2001 17:16:12 GMT
Subject: sockets: client dies...
References: <94kmt5$cuj$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <3A6F8AB1.BDF23F5D@home.com> <94pj8n$jfl$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <94pn5h$t3e$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu> <94uibd$t8c$1@saltmine.radix.net> <956mns$5i2$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <956sss$jg8$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>

Quoth Keith Murphy <kpmurphy at my-deja.com>:
| my major problem is that this is all fine and dandy, with one client and
| one server... but what happens when you have multiple clients on a
| single server?  you get hung up waiting for responses from each client.
| i guess you could spawn a new thread for each client... is there a
| better way to do this?

Yes, select(), asyncore, SocketServer to name a few.  Check it out.


From khairy at magnet.fsu.edu  Sun Jan 21 15:56:37 2001
From: khairy at magnet.fsu.edu (Khaled Khairy)
Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 15:56:37 -0500
Subject: Newbee!!BPL question! Printing to standard output
Message-ID: <3A6B4D04.14B661E2@magnet.fsu.edu>

I use ActiveState and use BPL for exposing a C++ library using VC6.
Can I, and how do I print to the standard output or to the ActiveState
interpreter screen directly,
without having to return a string ?  Something like calling
cout<<"some text" ;    within a function.
I would appreciate any help, thank you.
Khaled Khairy



From dnew at san.rr.com  Mon Jan 29 16:20:56 2001
From: dnew at san.rr.com (Darren New)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 21:20:56 GMT
Subject: Thread Safety
References: <mailman.980662149.14963.python-list@python.org> <980790776.835347129@news.silcom.com>
Message-ID: <3A75DEB9.308FE746@san.rr.com>

Clarence Gardner wrote:
> The issue is the SSL support in the socket module, which raises an
> exception when the reading socket is at EOF, rather than returning an
> empty string.

Do you mean when the SSL library reads EOF on the socket, or when you read
EOF from the SSL library? SSL requires packets that say "I'm closing the
socket", and I can understand getting an error if the other side is (for
example) just exitting without telling its SSL to close the socket first.

-- 
Darren New / Senior MTS & Free Radical / Invisible Worlds Inc.
San Diego, CA, USA (PST).  Cryptokeys on demand.
"It says this wine has syphilis."
               "I think that's pronounced `sulphates'."


From andreas at andreas-jung.com  Wed Jan 17 15:39:32 2001
From: andreas at andreas-jung.com (Andreas Jung)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 21:39:32 +0100
Subject: help with code for combinations/permutations
In-Reply-To: <944opo$2b9@dispatch.concentric.net>; from bww00@amdahl.com on Wed, Jan 17, 2001 at 06:37:44PM +0000
References: <944adl$2bf@dispatch.concentric.net> <944opo$2b9@dispatch.concentric.net>
Message-ID: <20010117213932.A995@yetix.sz-sb.de>

On Wed, Jan 17, 2001 at 06:37:44PM +0000, Bryan Webb wrote:
> Thanks to all that responded.
> 
> I wasnt as clear as I should have been. (as usual)
> I really need to come up with all the possible sums of the numbers in the
> list ie. 1 , sum(1 + 2), sum(1 + 2 + 3) ,sum( 1+2+4),sum( 1 + 3) and so on.

Ok, now you are talking about subsets but not of permutations. Because the
order of the elements does not matter there are much fewer possibilities. I
suggest to make an example by hand: take a set of 4 elements and generate all
subsets by hand. Then you will learn how such an algorithm should work.

Andreas 



From quinn at euro.ugcs.caltech.edu  Mon Jan 15 02:51:07 2001
From: quinn at euro.ugcs.caltech.edu (Quinn Dunkan)
Date: 15 Jan 2001 07:51:07 GMT
Subject: Python language suggestion
References: <93l4ve$no3$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <20010113154813.2F5A5A828@darjeeling.zadka.site.co.il> <mailman.979428692.14432.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrn965avb.dnv.quinn@euro.ugcs.caltech.edu>

On Sat, 13 Jan 2001 15:44:46 -0800, Chris Ryland <cpr at emsoftware.com> wrote:
>Actually, this brings up an interesting point.
>
>Why doesn't the attribute reference (primary "." identifier) work for any
>dictionary-like object?
>
>E.g., why doesn't
>
>f = {'a': 1, 'b': 2}
>print f.a
>
>work while
>
>f['a']
>
>does? (I mean from a language design standpoint, not why doesn't it work
>currently.)

Well, as others have pointed out, there's an important difference between
instance attributes and dictionary entries in python.  Incidentally, there's a
language called 'lua' which is very similar to python, except that 'foo.bar'
is sugar for "foo['bar']".  There are a few other differences, of course :)
Naturally, lua tables don't have methods like python dicts.


From donn at u.washington.edu  Wed Jan 24 12:32:06 2001
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: 24 Jan 2001 17:32:06 GMT
Subject: How do I know all thrown exceptions of a function?
References: <g3lb49.73s.ln@127.0.0.1> <94d93h$55d$1@troll.powertech.no> <mailman.980059223.25947.python-list@python.org> <slrn96rk66.ugd.scarblac@pino.selwerd.nl> <mailman.980287769.21816.python-list@python.org> <slrn96tref.gb.scarblac@pino.selwerd.nl>
Message-ID: <94n3im$t1i$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>

Quoth scarblac at pino.selwerd.nl (Remco Gerlich):
| (Paul)
| | No.  If your code gets, say, a bad value, it should raise ValueError,
| | not some new version of ValueError defined only in that module.
|
| Ah, of course. If there's an obvious builtin exception for exactly this
| problem, use that. That should cover many cases.
|
| My point is though, say you have some markup language parser that is looking
| for an end tag. Your string.index() call fails with a ValueError (end marker
| not found). Now it would be best to catch that and raise some sort of
| mymarkupparser.MissingEndTag exception, not to simply pass on the unhelpful
| ValueError that might change once you switch to regular expressions.

That makes sense to me.  Now we're talking about a basic and obvious
premise:  exceptions allow a function to communicate with its callers.
When it can say something -- "Your input had no end tag" -- then
it should ideally say it in the clearest way.  Good if it's a more
particular exception than ValueError.  Bad if it's a gratuitous
MyValueError that doesn't say anything more useful about the condition.

Do rules, even "rules of thumb", help us write code that makes sense?
I don't know, but it's not easy to come up with a good rule of thumb!
Obviously the real quality of a system depends on the effort and insight
the programmer brings to bear on it.

I'm not sure it's clear that a programmer must have an inventory of
potential exceptions.  For common programming applications, I think
we trap exceptions because we think we can do something appropriate,
because we think we understand the nature of that problem.  A list
of names of exceptions isn't enough, we need to understand the exceptions
in terms of the problems they represent in that context.  I don't think
you can make a list of exceptions, for any non-trivial function, that
can possibly be both complete and meaningful.

	Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu


From fredrik at effbot.org  Mon Jan  1 18:01:33 2001
From: fredrik at effbot.org (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Mon, 01 Jan 2001 23:01:33 GMT
Subject: Recursive inner function... How?
References: <3A4FA0EF.BF94F4BD@uswest.net> <Oq_36.3045$Qb7.341122@newsb.telia.net> <3A50CCD8.90E48CB@uswest.net>
Message-ID: <h%746.2534$AH6.404071@newsc.telia.net>

hi bjorn,
> > the easiest fix is to do as Guido intended, and move
> > "inner" to the global scope.  you can either move the
> > entire function to the right place, or cheat:
> >
> >     def outer():
> >         global inner
> >         def inner():
> >             inner()
> >         inner()
> >
> >     outer()
>
> It isn't immediately clear to me what is going on though... My guess is that
> the global statement creates an entry in the global dict, and the def inner
> assigns a new value to it... (am I close?)

Close enough: the global statement doesn't modify the
global namespace, it just tells Python's compiler that
"inner" is a global name.

The compiler uses that information to generate the right
bytecode operations: LOAD/STORE_FAST for locals,
LOAD/STORE_GLOBAL for globals.

(this only applies to the code in "outer", though -- inside
"inner", "inner" is a global name...  the recursive call only
works because "outer" creates the global variable before
it makes the call...)

</F>




From LangaK at discoveryhealth.co.za  Wed Jan 17 02:33:32 2001
From: LangaK at discoveryhealth.co.za (Langa Kentane)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 09:33:32 +0200
Subject: python executables question [newbie]
Message-ID: <A69BC9CA4B39D411BF2200105A45B45B075B8C45@dhexchange.discoveryhealth.co.za>

Is it possible to create executables from python, I think I came accross
something like that in one of the tutorials.  It just did not go into any
detail.

Thanks

__________________________________________________________
Langa Kentane		| TEL: (011) 290 3218
Security Administrator	| Cell: 082 606 1515
DISCOVERY HEALTH		| http://www.discoveryhealth.co.za
__________________________________________________________________




From randy at spoke.net  Fri Jan 26 13:31:33 2001
From: randy at spoke.net (Randall Kern)
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 18:31:33 GMT
Subject: informal representation of long integers
References: <DZhc6.63$g4.22706@paloalto-snr1.gtei.net> <G3ic6.9119$AH6.1487563@newsc.telia.net>
Message-ID: <9ojc6.520$g4.49862@paloalto-snr1.gtei.net>

Good, my faith in python is restored :)  Now if I can just get Zope running
under 2.0......

-Randy




From fredrik at effbot.org  Sat Jan 13 12:49:40 2001
From: fredrik at effbot.org (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 17:49:40 GMT
Subject: do python programmers avoid the mac? 
References: <3A607DCC.7EF7809C@mjs400.co.uk>
Message-ID: <Uy086.5867$Qb7.841014@newsb.telia.net>

Pete wrote:
> Ordinary Bloke seeks stable python2.0 mac ide environment for possible
> long term development antics. Don't tell me to buy a noisy steenkin
> intel fat box.

python.org => downloads => macintosh:
http://www.python.org/download/download_mac.html

Cheers /F




From LangaK at discoveryhealth.co.za  Tue Jan  9 07:01:45 2001
From: LangaK at discoveryhealth.co.za (Langa Kentane)
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 14:01:45 +0200 
Subject: Online books
Message-ID: <A69BC9CA4B39D411BF2200105A45B45B075B8BD8@dhexchange.discoveryhealth.co.za>

Greetings.
Can anyone please suggest a site where I can find a good online book
[something comprehensive] on python programming that I can download.

Thanks in advance

__________________________________________________________
Langa Kentane		| TEL: (011) 290 3218
Security Administrator	| Cell: 082 606 1515
DISCOVERY HEALTH		| http://www.discoveryhealth.co.za
__________________________________________________________________




From cpsoct at my-deja.com  Mon Jan 15 11:27:33 2001
From: cpsoct at my-deja.com (cpsoct at my-deja.com)
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 16:27:33 GMT
Subject: do python programmers avoid the mac?
References: <3A607DCC.7EF7809C@mjs400.co.uk> <slrn96232d.62n.grante@isis.visi.com> <93ung1$oe0$3@newsserver.rrzn.uni-hannover.de>
Message-ID: <93v8da$k9l$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

Does LinuxPPC come with python installed? Or is there a build out there
to download that is ready to run, or do you have to compile it as the
chipset is different? I am on an old PPC and finding python mac IDE a
rough go. I am considering buying the LinuxPPC CD, is it a good way to
go? Is there another LinuxPPC distribution besides the one @

http://www.linuxppc.com/

?

Cheers,
-kevin
Seoul, Korea



In article <93ung1$oe0$3 at newsserver.rrzn.uni-hannover.de>,
  bernhard at intevation.de wrote:
> In article <slrn96232d.62n.grante at isis.visi.com>,
> 	grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards) writes:
> > In article <3A607DCC.7EF7809C at mjs400.co.uk>, Pete wrote:
> >
> >>Ordinary Bloke seeks stable python2.0 mac ide environment for
possible
> >>long term development antics. Don't tell me to buy a noisy steenkin
> >>intel fat box.
> >
> > You don't have to buy a noisy steenkin intel fat box:
>
> I am running LinuxPPC with python on my Powerbook for day to day work.
> 	Bernhard
> --
> Professional Service around Free Software
(intevation.net)
> The FreeGIS Project
(freegis.org)
> Association for a Free Informational Infrastructure
(ffii.org)
> FSF Europe
(www.fsfeurope.org)
>


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From nospam at mega-nerd.com  Mon Jan 29 06:34:31 2001
From: nospam at mega-nerd.com (Erik de Castro Lopo)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 11:34:31 GMT
Subject: Password protected files on Vaults of Parnassus
Message-ID: <3A755218.26542E11@mega-nerd.com>

Hi all,

I'm trying to download some file listed on the Vaults of Parnassus'
Maths page. On some of the like Fftw-Numpy and optimize I get
transferred somewhere else and then get asked for a password.

What going on?????

Erik
-- 
+----------------------------------------------------------+
  Erik de Castro Lopo  nospam at mega-nerd.com (Yes its valid)
+----------------------------------------------------------+
Spook bait:
heroin Albright terrify extradite packages uranium 
airport terminal Yeltsin code kill blast president 
train station Clinton opium nitro money sneak hash 
keep secret DEA smuggle FBI get caught execute LSD 
assassinate NSA terrorize bombed encrypt plutonium


From neelk at alum.mit.edu  Sun Jan 28 16:24:03 2001
From: neelk at alum.mit.edu (Neelakantan Krishnaswami)
Date: 28 Jan 2001 21:24:03 GMT
Subject: invalid-token syntax hook (was Re: Hack request: rational numbers)
References: <mailman.980590234.29036.python-list@python.org> <950vg1026tu@news2.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <slrn9797fm.m44.neelk@alum.mit.edu>

On Sun, 28 Jan 2001 10:26:03 +0100, Alex Martelli <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote:
>"Tim Peters" <tim.one at home.com> wrote in message
>news:mailman.980590234.29036.python-list at python.org...
>    [snip]
>> That said, I believe your only hope of getting new literal syntax is to
>> embed it in a general proposal.  Some notation for rational literals is
>> just one of an unbounded number of similar desires.  
>
> What I was thinking, too.  So what about the "invalid-token syntax
> error hook" idea -- whenever the compiler is about to raise a
> SyntaxError because of an invalid token ('3r','@@x',etc), if
> sys.invalidTokenHook (or something of that ilk) is set to some
> callable, that callable is invoked, passed the invalid-token string,
> and given a chance to either return None (confirming that, yes, it
> IS a syntax error) or a tuple (possibly empty or singleton) of
> tokens to be used instead.

Insufficiently general, IMO.If you make exceptions restartable (ala
Lisp and Smalltalk) in Python, and then you get the hook into
SyntaxError for free, without needing special-purpose machinery.


Neel


From dsh8290 at rit.edu  Wed Jan  3 14:04:06 2001
From: dsh8290 at rit.edu (D-Man)
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2001 14:04:06 -0500
Subject: Accessor class peer review
Message-ID: <20010103140406.A6050@westsidecnc.rh.rit.edu>

Hi all.  I did some work on a template for an Accessor class based on
the ideas presented by Alex in an earlier thread.  I would like to
hear people's opinions regarding this code.  (I'm not interested in
comments such as 'clients should explicitly call mutator/accessor
functions').

I added a level of granularity to it so that the class can specify
which members clients can access (the ones with _set* or _get*
functions) and which ones only the class itself is allowed to acccess
(__set* and __get*).


Thanks for the comments,
-D

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
class Access :
	def __setattr__( self , name , value ) :
		# when the mutator tries to assign the value, __setattr__ will
		# be called again,

		# first check to see if the name is the mangled name from the
		# mutator
		if name.startswith( "_" + self.__class__.__name__ + "_" ) :
			self.__dict__[ name ] = value
		# otherwise find the mutator method and call it
		else :
			mutator = getattr( self , "_set_" + name , None )
			if mutator is None :
				msg = "Mutation of instance member '" 
				msg += name + "' denied"
				raise AttributeError( msg )

			mutator( value )
	
	def __getattr__( self , name ) :
		# this happens if the instance's attribute DNE yet, but
		# __setattr__ want's to assign to it
		if name.startswith( "_set__" + self.__class__.__name__ ) :
			self.__dict__[ name ] = None

		# if the name starts with "_get_" the method DNE,
		# stop recursion
		elif name.startswith( "_get_" ) :
			# remove the tricky prefix before throwing the exception
			msg = "Instance member '" + name[5:] + "' "
			msg += "DNE or Access Denied"
			raise AttributeError( msg )

		# otherwise it is normal, find the accessor and return its
		# return value
		else :
			accessor = getattr( self , "_get_" + name )
			return accessor()
	
	def _set_good( self , value ) :
		"""The public mutator."""
		self.__set_good( value )
	
	def _get_good( self ) :
		"""The public accessor."""
		return self.__get_good()

	def __set_good( self , value ) :
		"""The private mutator, does the "real" work."""
		self.__good = value
	
	def __get_good( self ) :
		"""The private accessor, does the real work."""
		return self.__good
	

# to test
if __name__ == "__main__" :
	print

	obj = Access()

	# assign a mutatable member
	obj.good = "Hello World of good OO\n"

	# print an accessible member
	print obj.good

	# assign a immutatable member
	try :
		obj.bad = "This is an error!"
	except AttributeError , e :
		print "AttributeError:" , e
		print
		
	# print an inaccessible member
	try :
		print obj.bad
	except AttributeError , e :
		print "AttributeError:" , e
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



From godcha at my-deja.com  Thu Jan 18 04:18:22 2001
From: godcha at my-deja.com (godcha at my-deja.com)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 09:18:22 GMT
Subject: access FoxPro files without ODBC
References: <943qu9$hde$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <943t4s$h3c$1@news1.wdf.sap-ag.de>
Message-ID: <946ccr$mt7$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

In article <943t4s$h3c$1 at news1.wdf.sap-ag.de>,
  "Daniel Dittmar" <daniel.dittmar at sap.com> wrote:
> The Vaults of Parnassus found:
> http://www.vex.net/parnassus/apyllo.py?find=foxpro
>
> You could also seach for dbase, as the format of the base tables is the
> same, although the index files are different.
>
> Daniel

When following the link http://www.vex.net/parnassus/apyllo2.py/39757632
for the dbfreader module, I get a forbidden response.

If someone has a copy of the module, I would appreciate to get it.

Thanks.
Godefroid Chapelle
BubbleNet sprl
Louvain-la-Neuve Belgium


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From slhath at flash.net  Thu Jan 18 10:45:26 2001
From: slhath at flash.net (scott hathaway)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 15:45:26 GMT
Subject: python compiled to native in less than a year?
References: <kcF86.6006$J%.594457@news.flash.net> <Pine.GSO.4.21.0101151106200.7702-100000@z.glue.umd.edu> <8pF86.6015$J%.595435@news.flash.net> <0luc6toovfccbqspkvc0dkqkuc5dck7u51@4ax.com> <946coc130tl@news2.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <qcE96.8755$J%.858944@news.flash.net>

All the .NET languages will be translated to IL and then from IL to native
code...including python and perl.  I am at VSLive 2001 this week (no flames,
please) and ActiveState gave a demo of Visual Perl, showing how a class
written in it (living in a .dll - now called an assembly) could be called
from VB.  This will be the same for Python.

This will be huge for Python - whether you like MS or not.  I think this is
awesome.  I will be able to use Python to do "real" development in Windows.
Programmers like me have a very difficult time learning how to do a gui with
wxWindows or Tkinter.  It is much easier to paint the controls on a form.
Now, I will be able to do that and use Python as the language!

This is wonderful for anyone programming on Windows now, and will be even
more wonderful as soon as someone converts IL to native on Linux.

I think that this will be much more influential to Python than Jython.  I
think it may be the new "preferred" way to use Python for many Windows
developers.

Scott

"Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:946coc130tl at news2.newsguy.com...
> "Tim Roberts" <timr at probo.com> wrote in message
> news:0luc6toovfccbqspkvc0dkqkuc5dck7u51 at 4ax.com...
> > "scotth" <slhath at flash.net> wrote:
> > >
> > >Since Python will be one of the .NET languages, it will get compiled
like
> > >all the other .NET languages.  Whatever the problems, ActiveState/MS
> > >have/are going to over come it if my info is correct.
> >
> > Where did you get your information?  Do you have a URL?  The other
> repliers
> > are delighting in nitpicking and Microsoft bashing, but no one seems to
> > have questioned the basic premise.
> >
> > If I understand the .NET concept correctly, any COMPILED language will
be
> > compiled to IL.  However, I don't think there is anything to prevent a
> > language from being interpreted.  That is, Python might survive in the
> .NET
> > framework as source text.
>
> There's nothing stopping some piece of .NET code from "interpreting"
> any piece of text whatsoever, but that wouldn't let that piece of text
> be a "first-class citizen" in the .NET framework -- it could not be
> used to implement classes other components inherit from, etc.  Compiling
> the whatever-text-it-is down to IL is the 'royal road' of .NET
integration,
> and the one ActiveState is taking with their Python.NET, whose beta you
> can download from their site.  Of course, that IL can perfectly well be
> replete with calls to a 'runtime for my special funky language' assembly
> of components -- that's a component-internal implementation decision
> with .NET does not interfere with -- but what happens at a component's
> interface *is* constrained by .NET interoperability rules.
>
> The 'basic premise' that 'compiled down to IL' necessarily means anything
> much from the point of view of performance IS worth questioning.  A piece
> of IL that's little more than a sequence of calls to a runtime assembly
> (an indirect-threaded interpreter...) will probably have performance not
> substantially different from other styles of bytecode-for-interpretation,
> after all.  It seems to me that Python .NET isn't really taking this easy
> way out (just as Jython doesn't), but aiming at a compromise between
> feasibility AND some potential performance improvement; but I have not
> looked deep enough into it to be certain.
>
>
> Alex
>
>
>




From hgg9140 at seanet.com  Fri Jan 12 20:49:29 2001
From: hgg9140 at seanet.com (Harry George)
Date: 12 Jan 2001 17:49:29 -0800
Subject: Python and Industry
References: <20010111172342.10148.00000934@ng-ca1.aol.com> <fEF76.974$kn.131663@ruti.visi.com>
Message-ID: <m3ofxc9q6u.fsf@wilma.localdomain>

I use it for connecting engineering applications via XML.  These apps
cover preliminary design (simulation and analysis), detail design (CAD
solid models), manufacture (NC tool programming), partner data
interchange, etc.  In the process I've converted some old perl hands
to python, and turned some engineers onto it.  Currently moving from
"ok to use in researchware and isolated settings" to "required on all
engineering workstations".

grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards) writes:

> In article <20010111172342.10148.00000934 at ng-ca1.aol.com>, Crutoy wrote:
> 
> >Hi , does anyone know how widly in an instries does python
> being used ?
> 
> I use it in industry.
> 
> We ship with one of our products a small admin tool that's
> written in Python.  I also use Python to write small test
> programs that are used to drive/simulate some our products for
> test purposes.  I've also used small Python scripts to automate
> the process of building software assemblies from
> sub-assemblies.
> 
> RedHat uses Python for some of their install/config utilities.
> 
> -- 
> Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  The Osmonds! You are
>                                   at               all Osmonds!! Throwing up
>                                visi.com            on a freeway at dawn!!!

-- 
Harry George
hgg9140 at seanet.com


From erno-news at erno.iki.fi  Tue Jan 23 11:56:06 2001
From: erno-news at erno.iki.fi (Erno Kuusela)
Date: 23 Jan 2001 18:56:06 +0200
Subject: run command as other user
References: <94jt1i$1evs$1@news.net.uni-c.dk>
Message-ID: <kud7de8axl.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>

In article <94jt1i$1evs$1 at news.net.uni-c.dk>, "Peter Posselt
Vestergaard" <posselt at daimi.au.dk> writes:

| Is there some way to run a shell-command from python (on Unix) as another
| user (than the one running the script)?

you can use the os.setuid() function to switch another user id.
be careful though, it is easy to create security holes this way.

  -- erno


From grante at visi.com  Tue Jan  2 16:19:19 2001
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2001 21:19:19 GMT
Subject: why no "do : until"?
References: <92jj3j$ff7$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <92m9pm$d19$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <B3z36.122$9s1.18804@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com> <3A4EC5B1.8912E571@engcorp.com> <x8G36.156$9s1.31209@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com> <3A4F4B4D.ECD6B172@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <rBr46.7783$4c.597712@ruti.visi.com>

In article <3A4F4B4D.ECD6B172 at engcorp.com>, Peter Hansen wrote:

>But I can't argue with another view on this.  After all, in C I've been
>using "brace indentation style 3" for the longest time, in apparent
>violation of 98% of coding conventions in the world.  That is, my braces
>are vertically aligned but indented with respect to the "if ()" or "for
>()" which gets me into the block:
>
>while (1)
>   {
>   T = f();
>   if (T < 25)
>       break;
>   }
>
>Use of that convention is probably what has made me quite happy with
>Python's indentation style, which essentially matches this pattern.

I used that C indentation style for years, but I finally gave
up since a) I could never get editors and the "indent" program
to do it automatically, and b) nobody else on my projects
wanted to do it that way, and it's important that all the
source code on a project be indented consistently.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  Now my EMOTIONAL
                                  at               RESOURCES are heavily
                               visi.com            committed to 23


From jurberg at my-deja.com  Tue Jan 16 13:28:39 2001
From: jurberg at my-deja.com (John Urberg)
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 18:28:39 GMT
Subject: Using Python instead of...
Message-ID: <9423s9$32f$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

We are considering what language to use to rewrite our practice
management system.  It is currently a PowerBuilder client/server system.
Currently all that is in the running is VisualBasic and Java.  My boss
is concerned about using anything that is not "mainstream".  Any ideas
on ways to convince him to use Python?  Or is Python a bad idea for this
application?

Thanks,
John Urberg


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http://www.deja.com/


From barry at digicool.com  Sun Jan 28 01:28:46 2001
From: barry at digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 01:28:46 -0500
Subject: . Python 2.1 function attributes
References: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0101271158190.3501-100000@y.glue.umd.edu>
	<Pine.GSO.4.21.0101270135190.7677-100000@y.glue.umd.edu>
	<mailman.980593892.725.python-list@python.org>
	<$5A+ZwAGjtc6EwE0@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
	<14962.62953.304511.523826@anthem.wooz.org>
	<mailman.980613639.23439.python-list@python.org>
	<mailman.980617472.28020.python-list@python.org>
	<Pine.GSO.4.21.0101271303540.3501-100000@y.glue.umd.edu>
	<3A7333F5.DA1E367B@mail.com>
	<14963.46850.588826.37921@anthem.wooz.org>
Message-ID: <14963.48158.474406.54413@anthem.wooz.org>

>>>>> "BAW" == Barry A Warsaw <barry at digicool.com> writes:

    BAW> It simplified the code, shorted it, and made it more robust.
---------------------------------^^^^^^^
shortened




From pj at sgi.com  Thu Jan 11 23:14:37 2001
From: pj at sgi.com (Paul Jackson)
Date: 12 Jan 2001 04:14:37 GMT
Subject: Speed of Python vs. Perl
References: <mailman.979266192.1957.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <93m0bd$o5l17$1@fido.engr.sgi.com>

Tim wrote:
|> Unless you've got a broken installation, Python shouldn't
|> be spending *any* time parsing imported files at startup.

Perhaps I should have said "processing", not "parsing".

Whatever, it's definitely _not_ stating, opening or
reading that costing the bulk of the time.  Rather it
is mostly pure application cpu, occurring after the
stat/open/read sequence.

My installation _is_ successfully loading *.pyc files,
as I can see from the par traces.

Perhaps there is no way to be certain I've said this right,
except by actually presenting some of a par trace, taken
from running python with the command:

    echo print '"hi"' | python

The following snippet of par trace shows the handling of
the posixpath import.  This is with Python 1.5.2 on Irix.

  124mS       stat("/usr/local/lib/python1.5/posixpath", 0x7ffefdc8)
  124mS       END-stat() errno = 2 (No such file or directory)
  124mS       open("/usr/local/lib/python1.5/posixpath.so", O_RDONLY, 0666)
  124mS       END-open() errno = 2 (No such file or directory)
  124mS       open("/usr/local/lib/python1.5/posixpathmodule.so", O_RDONLY, 0666)
  124mS       END-open() errno = 2 (No such file or directory)
  124mS       open("/usr/local/lib/python1.5/posixpath.py", O_RDONLY, 0666)
  125mS       END-open() = 6
  125mS       fstat(6, 0x7ffef990)
  125mS       END-fstat() OK
  125mS       open("/usr/local/lib/python1.5/posixpath.pyc", O_RDONLY, 0666)
  125mS       END-open() = 7
  125mS       fstat(7, 0x7ffef850)
  125mS       END-fstat() OK
  125mS       brk(0x10269000)
  125mS       END-brk() OK
  125mS       ioctl(7, __OLD_TCGETA, 0x7ffef800)
  126mS       END-ioctl(7, __OLD_TCGETA, 0x7ffef800) errno = 25
  126mS       read(7, 0x10266718, 4096)
  126mS       END-read(7, ..., 4096) = 4096
  130mS       read(7, 0x10266718, 4096)
  130mS       END-read(7, "e of a file, reported by os.st", 4096) = 4096
  131mS       brk(0x1026b000)
  131mS       END-brk() OK
  157mS       read(7, 0x10266718, 4096)
  157mS       END-read(7, "er constructions.  If user or ", 4096) = 2786
  158mS       brk(0x1026d000)
  158mS       END-brk() OK
  161mS       close(7)
  161mS       END-close() OK
  161mS       stat("/usr/local/lib/python1.5/stat", 0x7ffeebc8)

Notice that:

  - It did open posixpatch.pyc (and didn't need to rewrite the *.pyc)

  - It took just 1 mSec to get through all the stats, fstats and opens
	(This was rerunning the test, so all was in the cache.)

  - It took another 35 mSec to get through the brk's and reads.

  - For example, it took 26 mSecs, from the brk at the 131 mS mark
	to the read at the 157 mS mark, purely in user cpu.  Looking
	at the captured real/user/sys times for this test case shows
	that indeed this time is spent in user cpu, not waiting,
	and not in system cpu.

  - If you're curious, the close(6) of the posixpath.py file comes
	another 24 lines later in the trace, after the stat module
	is finished processing (I'd guess this means that the stat
	import was nested in the posixpath module).

So while it may not be "parsing" in that 26 mSecs, it's sure
doing something that is _not_ due to the costs of stat'ing,
open'ing or read'ing files, but rather somehow related to the
processing of what is read.

The Intel/Linux times and traces (also Python 1.5.2) look
similar.  If you'd like similar analysis for Python 2.0, let
me know.  My apologies for not upgrading yet (Python 1.5.2 is
meeting all my current needs, so I've been lazy).

Likely the next step is to profile the code, to see where it is
executing during all this time.
-- 
                          I won't rest till it's the best ...
                          Manager, Linux System Software
                          Paul Jackson <pj at sgi.com> 1.650.933.1373


From andreas at andreas-jung.com  Mon Jan  8 12:06:16 2001
From: andreas at andreas-jung.com (Andreas Jung)
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 18:06:16 +0100
Subject: ANN: Stackless Python 2.0
In-Reply-To: <3A58EFC3.5A722FF0@tismer.com>; from tismer@tismer.com on Mon, Jan 08, 2001 at 12:37:55AM +0200
References: <3A58EFC3.5A722FF0@tismer.com>
Message-ID: <20010108180616.A18993@yetix.sz-sb.de>

On Mon, Jan 08, 2001 at 12:37:55AM +0200, Christian Tismer wrote:
> Dear community,
> 
> I'm happy to announce that
> 
> 		Stackless Python 2.0
> 
> is finally ready and available for download.
> 
> Stackless Python for Python 1.5.2+ also got some minor
> enhancements. Both versions are available as Win32
> installer files here:

Are there patches available against the standard Python 2.0 
source code tree ?

Andreas 



From jasonic at nomadicsltd.com  Tue Jan  9 20:32:48 2001
From: jasonic at nomadicsltd.com (Jason Cunliffe)
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 20:32:48 -0500
Subject: mxTools (was Re: why no "do : until"?)
References: <Iw5jLKALa0W6Ewjq@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk><Pine.LNX.4.30.0101092015010.5204-100000@fep132.fep.ru> <mailman.979066090.17094.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <t5nenubrrjou21@corp.supernews.com>

Robin Becker <robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message
> What percentage of modules really needs mxDateTime? The answer is of
> course 0% or 100% depending on your point of view. The cup is too full
> for me and too empty for you.

<soapbox>

hmmm... let's consider for a moment neither you nor I..
What about all the newcomers to Python, as beginining programmers, kids,
students, newbies,
immigrants from other languages..? What sanity it would be to arrive in
Pythonia, where DateTime() is actually corresponds to the scope of
historical time, instead of some *nixed no-life before 1970!

Any kind of datetime needs [beyond system timestamping of files or message
packets]
needs mxDateTime(). Any use concerning people and not machine prblems,
including even basics like date of birth. Anyone over the age of 30+ is out
luck. Let's see that is maybe 2-3 billion people?

mxDateTime() gets it right the first time. It allows for sane administering
of all kinds of historical, scientific, statistical, medical, geographic,
demographic and business data......Or how about wonderful extended features
of mxDateTime for easier design of more intuitive and useful calendar
applications.

Don't like, don't see the need for them now.. don't worry don't use them. It
won't break your code, but it will fix all the code you or someone else is
going to have to write as temporal-spatial indexing of data becomes more
aand
more widespread. Even Multimedia, SMIL etc is better with these tools. This
is a really basic data type. Why screw it up when a good solution is
available.

How is Python ever going to really succeed in schools if you can't handle
even basic \History tables with it?

The current systems used are broken - they are simply not people-oriented.

I understood that Python was developed for people to work easily together.
To be readable, portable etc.. To help one thing clearly about problems aand
then solve them.
The approach in mxDateTime is clearly an essential enhancement to this and
belongs in the core

> If the leadership gives way on one then it sets a precedent for others.

nonsense. This forum is sophisticated enough to debate the merits directly
without being dogged by thin GWBushwacked precedent arguments.
</soapbox>

- Jason
___________________________________________________________
Jason CUNLIFFE = NOMADICS['Interactive Art and Technology']






From fredrik at effbot.org  Tue Jan  9 10:57:42 2001
From: fredrik at effbot.org (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2001 15:57:42 GMT
Subject: question about regexps
References: <3a5afa28@news.edunet.ru>
Message-ID: <WxG66.4333$AH6.750205@newsc.telia.net>

lg at rgz.ru wrote:
> may be it's offtopic but i've got next problem:
> need to define recurse regexp simethink like
>
> a = some_regexp(a)
> and then pick out all nests of this regex from some string

not sure, but maybe re.findall is what you're looking for?

cheers /F




From fredrik at effbot.org  Wed Jan 17 17:42:14 2001
From: fredrik at effbot.org (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 22:42:14 GMT
Subject: Multiple constructors (part 2)
References: <D%o96.645$KD3.265469@typhoon.aracnet.com>
Message-ID: <adp96.7334$AH6.1125480@newsc.telia.net>

Daniel Klein wrote:
> The real kicker is that in one of the constructors, I need to
> check the __class__ of the object

no, you don't: use isinstance(obj, myClass) instead.

(if you can, consider using an informal interface in-
stead, and use hasattr() to check for distinguishing
methods or attributes)

Cheers /F




From thomas at xs4all.net  Wed Jan 31 04:31:46 2001
From: thomas at xs4all.net (Thomas Wouters)
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 10:31:46 +0100
Subject: Sets in Python
In-Reply-To: <m3vgqx6jet.fsf@atrus.jesus.cam.ac.uk>; from mwh21@cam.ac.uk on Tue, Jan 30, 2001 at 05:26:18PM +0000
References: <956hcd$qef$1@tyfon.itea.ntnu.no> <m3vgqx6jet.fsf@atrus.jesus.cam.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <20010131103146.L962@xs4all.nl>

On Tue, Jan 30, 2001 at 05:26:18PM +0000, Michael Hudson wrote:
> "Magnus Lie Hetland" <mlh at idi.ntnu.no> writes:

> > And if one was to write a small wrapper of some kind --
> > is there any way to implement "x in s" without a linear search?
> > Or does the "in" operator always loop from 0 and up?
> > (It would certainly be nice to be able to override it...)

> Tried __contains__?

__contains__ only works in Python 1.6 and higher, though. In older versions
of Python, you have to supply a __getitem__ that takes an int as key and
throws IndexError when you're done.

-- 
Thomas Wouters <thomas at xs4all.net>

Hi! I'm a .signature virus! copy me into your .signature file to help me spread!



From donn at u.washington.edu  Fri Jan  5 19:33:45 2001
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: 6 Jan 2001 00:33:45 GMT
Subject: Calling an application from inside a python script Take 1
References: <mailman.978680886.5942.python-list@python.org> <9351o8$8qm$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu> <tGs56.1056$4Z.77453@news2.atl>
Message-ID: <935p59$cga$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>

Quoth "Joel Ricker" <joejava at dragonat.net>:
| Donn Cave wrote in message <9351o8$8qm$1 at nntp6.u.washington.edu>...
|
|> try that and see what happens?  That's an intentionally hostile
|> input (don't try it, really.)  Accidental input errors might be harmless,
|> or might not.
|>
|> I didn't see anything wrong with the ssh in your initial post, the
|> problem was system().  system() + user-supplied input = unpredictable
|> results.  Use spawnv().
|
|
| I'm not sure if you are familar with perl but perl has a pragma called Taint
| that when enabled prohibits the use of user supplied input until the proper
| input is regexed out of it - for example, usernames shouldn't have any
| punctuation other than _ or control codes, etc.  I'm not sure exactly what
| Python has in this regard as this is Day 1 of my Perl Recovery Program (*s*)
| but its a mindset worth applying.

I'd like to see people try spawnv().  (Or spawnvp(), whatever.)

It's nice to be able to clean up input for the shell command line, and 
maybe it's even reliable enough.  As a mindset, I'm not sure.  If you
need to walk a high-wire, then a safety net is a good idea.  If you
actually could just cross at the street level, but everyone takes the
high-wire because they don't like to walk up and down the stairs and
there's a safety net, that puts the safety net in a different perspective.
You can still break your neck.

Until now, we could only say "system() is scary, but the alternatives
are complex and laborious."  Now 2.0 has a reasonably handy alternative.
It's safer, it's faster, would appear to be portable.  Say no to
system(), at least with calculated inputs.

	Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu


From shredwheat at mediaone.net  Fri Jan 19 10:30:02 2001
From: shredwheat at mediaone.net (Pete Shinners)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 15:30:02 GMT
Subject: little standalone windows game
References: <anS96.74518$y9.13600919@typhoon.we.rr.com> <mailman.979898002.12945.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <_3Z96.74880$y9.13831084@typhoon.we.rr.com>

Don wrote:
> I'd be interested in hearing about how your solution works and seeing the
> code. I too have been searching for a way to create 2.0 standalones
> (particularly for Win32) for awhile now. <snipped>

wow, now that is high tech. my version is something similar to that,
but its done more "the manual way". i have a starting point directory
that includes just about all of python. once the standalone is up and
running, the job is to manually delete all the files unneeded by the
app (careful guessing).

the one extra my version does include is a small booting application
that automatically launches a predefined python script. (not a whole
lot different than just pythonw.exe really, but owell)

one simple change i still want to do it get all the python modules compiled
into PYO files (without documentation, etc). this would make the overall
filesize a little smaller is my guess.

automatically generating the minimal amount of files would be the ideal.
i was thinking about creating a small "rexec" python where i could
log every import and open() call. it still wouldn't be foolproof for
grabbingall the needed files, but i think it would to 99% of the job
99% of the time.


> Python is a great language and the full install with all of the libraries is
> a very powerful thing, but the difficulty in creating small standalone
> distributions is (I think) the biggest issue.

i agree, and i see this question asked every single day on the
python newsgroup. hmm, perhaps i'll be inspired to continue... :]







From root at rainerdeyke.com  Wed Jan 10 17:45:31 2001
From: root at rainerdeyke.com (Rainer Deyke)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 22:45:31 GMT
Subject: new enum idiom
References: <G6qzLy.6Fo@world.std.com> <938jmh$919$1@animus.fel.iae.nl> <3A58B9C0.9F2A5CC0@collins.rockwell.com> <93an8v02d2n@news1.newsguy.com> <93dde1$8d2$1@animus.fel.iae.nl> <93f3nb023mv@news1.newsguy.com> <90259DC4Arcamesz@127.0.0.1> <93i57b01qms@news2.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <fC576.21284$ge4.9901878@news2.rdc2.tx.home.com>

"Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:93i57b01qms at news2.newsguy.com...
> "Robert Amesz" <rcameszREMOVETHIS at dds.removethistoo.nl> wrote in message
> news:90259DC4Arcamesz at 127.0.0.1...
>     [snip]
> > >That's one possibility.  Syntax such as "bar=32" (for names in the
> > >enumlist whose value is explicitly defined) being another
>     [snip]
> > Either way seems rather ugly to me. Why not use tuples to visually
> > suggest the link between the value and the string? In this case that
> > would make:
> >
> >  xx = enum('foo', ('bar',32), 'fee', ('fie',45), 'flip', 'flop')
> >
> > It also would be much easier to parse the argument list in that form.
>
> Fine, but can't be "*much* easier" -- it's just one .split away from
> the 'bar=32' proposal to ('bar','32'), after all:-).

The problem with 'bar=32' is that it cannot be interleaved with unnumbered
args:

>>> enum('foo', bar=32, 'fee')
SyntaxError: non-keyword arg after keyword arg

Even if it could, there would be no way to determine the order of the
arguments and therefore no way to find out that 'fee' should have a value of
33.


--
Rainer Deyke (root at rainerdeyke.com)
Shareware computer games           -           http://rainerdeyke.com
"In ihren Reihen zu stehen heisst unter Feinden zu kaempfen" - Abigor




From tim.one at home.com  Mon Jan 15 06:28:40 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 06:28:40 -0500
Subject: help retrieving / storing info in dictionary or gadfly
In-Reply-To: <93ugt0025hp@news1.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCEELCIIAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Bryan Webb]
> I have a dictionary that has records with keys from 1 to 2^128
> I can build a list and sort the keys in order, then search thru
> the list of sorted keys.
>
> If the list has 1,2,3,4,5,7,8,9 and I need to search for 6. 6 is
> not in the list , so I need the record that is closest to 6 but
> not greater than 6.

[Alex Martelli]
> This is close to what bisect (see 5.5 in the library reference) does
> for you, except it gives the index in the sorted list locating the
> key closest but not smaller, rather than closest but not greater --
> a number from 0 to len(list), both extremes _included_ -- len(list)
> if the key you're looking for is larger than the largest (last) entry
> in the sorted list.  You presumably want -1 to len(list)-1 [again
> extremes included], with -1 if the key is smaller than the smallest
> (first) entry.

Like most places sequence indices are used in Python, it's tedious to keep
straight what bisect does if the return value is viewed as pointing *at* an
element, but trivial to keep straight if viewed as pointing *between*
elements.  A search for 6 in the list should be viewed as returning a
pointer to the comma marked by the caret:

1,2,3,4,5,7,8,9
         ^

That is, bisect returns the index of the "hole" between the 5 and the 7
(which should make it obvious what a list.insert() does when fed that index
back!).  With that view in mind, it's clear that a return value of 0 points
"before the 1", and a return value of 8 "after the 9":  len(list)+1 possible
holes, and len(list)+1 possible return values.  Bryan would be very well
served to stick with that scheme!  Trying to make -1 mean "before the start"
when 0 already means that to rest of the language will just get him into
subtle trouble.

Bummer:  if the element you're looking for is already in the list, the
current behavior of bisect isn't fully specified.  It so happens that it
reliably returns the index of the hole immediately to the right of the
rightmost equal element.  In 2.1 this will be documented, and there are new
methods bisect_left, bisect_right, insort_left and insort_right that
guarantee what happens when finding at least one equal element.

> You can wrap bisect.bisect for your purposes, e.g.:
>
> def locate(list, key):
>     i = bisect.bisect(list,key)
>     try:
>         if list[i]==key:
>             return i
>     except IndexError:
>         pass
>     return i-1

Note that, because of the above, it's not possible for the list[i]==key test
to succeed; e.g.,

>>> import bisect
>>> bisect.bisect([42], 42)
1
>>>

Because 2.0 bisect acts like 2.1's bisect_right, the hole index returned is
*after* the rightmost equal key.  So the test needs to be list[i-1]==key
(or, in 2.1, you can use bisect_left instead, and in the example get back
0 -- that's more natural if you're trying to determine whether the element
is already there).

>> Is there a way to further index the list of keys to do this ?
>>
>> Could I use GADFLY to do this.

> I don't see how you could do better than O(log N) to locate the
> key 'closest but not greater', with any auxiliary data structure
> of reasonable size, given your range of possible keys.  And that
> is the performance behavior that bisect.bisect gives you.

Come now:  2^128 is only 130 <wink>.  All right, if he meant 2**128, I
agree.

speaking-python-in-pythonland-ly y'rs  - tim




From junaftnoon at nospamplzyahoo.com  Tue Jan  2 08:11:30 2001
From: junaftnoon at nospamplzyahoo.com (June Kim)
Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2001 22:11:30 +0900
Subject: Year of the Snake
References: <HD046.21887$Aj6.1292110@news.hananet.net> <mailman.978426843.19321.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <92sk4i$27$1@news.nuri.net>

"chas" <panda at skinnyhippo.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.978426843.19321.python-list at python.org...
> June Kim wrote:
> > This is the year of the snake according to the 12 zodiacal animal
> > signs largely used in most of Asia  including Japan, China, and Korea.
> > Taking it as a metaphor, Python Users Group in Korea(PyKUG) is pleased
> > to announced that  this year is "the year of Python" in Korea.
> >
> > As one way to raise the public interest in Korea, we are planning to
> > have the 2nd Python Seminar on Feb/2/2001. Having more than 1,000
> > members joined in last year, we expect to have a larger number of
> > audience in the seminar than the first one.
>
> It's been a lonely few years as I've gone from Malaysia/Singapore
> to China/Taiwan and now find myself in HK .... meeting very few
> Python guys along the way. So to hear that you've had 1,000 members
> join in the last year alone is exciting stuff...

We also were very surprised at the large number, when most of us had
expected that the number would not go over, at best, a few hundreds. What is
more optimistic is almost all of the magazines for developers in Korea are
carrying Python articles regularly as if they are competing with each other.

>
> As luck would have it, I'll be in Korea at that time and would love
> to attend  ... but with very little Korean language skills, wonder
> if it's going to be a problem....

The seminar will be mostly in Korean, but we do have one speech in English:
"How Hostway is Using Python" by Lucas Roh, CEO of Hostway. And the most of
the presentation will be given visually in English -- but audially in
Korean. In addition to that, you could find some evangelists and enthusiasts
for Python who speak English, if not as well as their mother tongue though.

Best regards,

June.




From tjreedy at udel.edu  Mon Jan 22 15:56:51 2001
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 15:56:51 -0500
Subject: Newbie Question
References: <980192858.449719@iris.nyx.net>
Message-ID: <94i6f8$o9i$1@news.udel.edu>

"sarayu balu" <sbalu at nyx.net> wrote in message
news:980192858.449719 at iris.nyx.net...
> I just downloaded pygtk-0.6.6 and installed it.
> On trying the examples, I am getting an error-
> ImportError: /usr/local/lib/python2.0/site-packages/
> _gtkModule.so: undefined symbol: g_thread_init .
> I have no clue as to what's going on, is it a gtk
> library problem, or python2.0 problem ?

Looks like either a library problem (the .so (symbol table) missing a
function that should be there) or an interface problem (an attempt to
access a function not meant to be there).  Doubt its a bug in Py 2 import
code.  The call traceback listing that came before the ImportError message
might illuminate the problem better.  Hope someone else can be more helpful
with a solution.






From andreas at andreas-jung.com  Wed Jan 17 02:21:00 2001
From: andreas at andreas-jung.com (Andreas Jung)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 08:21:00 +0100
Subject: Command language definition
In-Reply-To: <3A6542EC.99ED1149@intes.de>; from fischer@intes.de on Wed, Jan 17, 2001 at 07:59:56AM +0100
References: <3A6542EC.99ED1149@intes.de>
Message-ID: <20010117082100.A21854@yetix.sz-sb.de>

On Wed, Jan 17, 2001 at 07:59:56AM +0100, Rolf Fischer wrote:
> Or is there a combination with another tool that you would recommend ?

hm...please be a bit more detailed...

Andreas 



From moshez at zadka.site.co.il  Wed Jan 17 11:14:13 2001
From: moshez at zadka.site.co.il (Moshe Zadka)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 18:14:13 +0200 (IST)
Subject: gettings mounted file systems [newbie]
In-Reply-To: <A69BC9CA4B39D411BF2200105A45B45B075B8C44@dhexchange.discoveryhealth.co.za>
References: <A69BC9CA4B39D411BF2200105A45B45B075B8C44@dhexchange.discoveryhealth.co.za>
Message-ID: <20010117161413.E3B19A828@darjeeling.zadka.site.co.il>

On Wed, 17 Jan 2001, Langa Kentane <LangaK at discoveryhealth.co.za> wrote:
> Greetings gurus.
> 
> I am trying to find a way how I can get a list of mounted file systems using
> python.
> How would I go about doing this? I have looked into the documentation and
> have not found anything to help.

Why not parse /etc/mtab?
-- 
Moshe Zadka <sig at zadka.site.co.il>
This is a signature anti-virus. 
Please stop the spread of signature viruses!



From gregj at pobox.com  Mon Jan 15 01:58:27 2001
From: gregj at pobox.com (Greg Jorgensen)
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 06:58:27 GMT
Subject: help retrieving / storing info in dictionary or gadfly
References: <93u48n$65t@dispatch.concentric.net>
Message-ID: <93u72i$pn9$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

I can't think of anything more straightforward and efficient than
keeping a sorted list of keys and using a binary search on it. That's
what I would do, but I'm interested in the other replies you'll get.


In article <93u48n$65t at dispatch.concentric.net>,
  "Bryan Webb" <bww00 at amdahl.com> wrote:
> Hello,
>     I have a dictionary that has records with keys from 1 to 2^128
> I can build a list and sort the keys in order, then search thru the
list of
> sorted keys.
>     If the list has 1,2,3,4,5,7,8,9 and I need to search for 6. 6 is
not in
> the list , so I need the record that is closest to 6 but not greater
than 6.
> Is there a way to further index the list of keys to do this ?
>
> Could I use GADFLY to do this.
>
> Any ideas and help would be appreciated.
>
> Thanks
> bryan Webb
>
>

--
Greg Jorgensen
Portland, Oregon, USA
gregj at pobox.com


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From tim.one at home.com  Sun Jan 28 01:07:48 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 01:07:48 -0500
Subject: Thread Safety
In-Reply-To: <980660755.2138768834@news.silcom.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCGEMJILAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Clarence Gardner]
> I have a multithreaded program in which I use the following pattern in
> various places, because I was pretty sure it was thread-safe.  But since
> I was just reading the thread about statcache, I thought I'd ask
> just to be sure.  The code is in a function that runs periodically
> and disposes of accumulated work:
>
> def Periodic():
>     global PendingDataStorage,PendingStatusUpdates
>     while 1:
>         time.sleep(10)
>         Data,PendingDataStorage = PendingDataStorage,[]
>         if Data:
>             StoreDataPoints(Data)
>         Data,PendingStatusUpdates = PendingStatusUpdates,[]
>         if Data:
>             SetErrorStatus(Data)
>
> The code I'm talking about are the two binding statements, where
> I bind to two names which form a tuple, rather than two statements,
> which would certainly not be thread-safe.

It's impossible to say:  "thread safety" is not an absolute judgment, it's
relative to the invariants your particular algorithm needs to preserve.  As
an extreme example,

x = 0
def periodic():
    global x
    while 1:
        time.sleep(.1)
        x += 1

may very well be thread-safe if the only thing the *rest* of your code cares
about is that it never sees an x < 0.

In your particular case, why try to be clever at all?  The loop doesn't wake
up more than once per 10 seconds, so the cost of a mutex lock/unlock pair
would be insignificant.  In return, you get certainty.

cleverness-is-the-#1-cause-of-thread-bugs-ly y'rs  - tim


PS:

>>> import dis
>>> def f():
...     x, y = 0, 1
...
>>> dis.dis(f)
          0 SET_LINENO               1

          3 SET_LINENO               2
          6 LOAD_CONST               1 (0)
          9 LOAD_CONST               2 (1)
         12 BUILD_TUPLE              2
         15 UNPACK_SEQUENCE          2
         18 STORE_FAST               0 (x)
         21 STORE_FAST               1 (y)
         24 LOAD_CONST               0 (None)
         27 RETURN_VALUE
>>>

Python executes bytecodes atomically, but makes no guarantees beyond that.
Do you still think you're "threadsafe"?




From nilswagner at my-deja.com  Thu Jan  4 03:17:03 2001
From: nilswagner at my-deja.com (nilswagner at my-deja.com)
Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 08:17:03 GMT
Subject: Season's greetings (was Re: Some Python 2.1 ideas)
References: <mailman.977765348.13376.python-list@python.org> <928otj02l39@news1.newsguy.com> <92dar2$juv$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <cLs46.921536$8u4.18401688@news1.rdc1.bc.home.com>
Message-ID: <931bhs$ol7$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

In article
<cLs46.921536$8u4.18401688 at news1.rdc1.bc.home.com>,
  "Dethe Elza" <delza at antarcti.ca> wrote:
>
> > I also have a teenage son,. His experience is
java, C, C++. I found
> > that the python project with the biggest
zowie! factor was V-python,
> > formerly visual python:
> > http://sourceforge.net/projects/visualpython
> >
> > This unfortunately requires a special python,
for reasons I find
> > specious
> <snip>
>
> Not anymore.  VPython is updated to Python2.0
and now plays well with
> others.
> They're working to make the installer easier and
provide zip files for the
> experienced.
>
> still-waiting-for-texture-support'ly yrs
> --Dethe
>
>
Please can you help me with the installation of
Vpython.
My operating system is SuSE Linux 7.0.
Which libraries are required ?
Which version of Python is essential ?

Regards,

                  Nils



Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From shredwheat at mediaone.net  Sun Jan 14 12:34:31 2001
From: shredwheat at mediaone.net (Pete Shinners)
Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 17:34:31 GMT
Subject: ANNOUNCE: pygame 0.5
Message-ID: <Hql86.48026$y9.9270662@typhoon.we.rr.com>

Pygame, Python Game Development.

Pygame 0.5 released on Jan 6th, 2001

Pygame homepage:  http://pygame.seul.org
SDL homepage:     http://www.libsdl.org
Maintainer:       Pete Shinners (pete at shinners.org)
(all urls at bottom of message)


Pygame is a set of python modules written to help create games in Python.
The package is wrapped around SDL and several of the SDL daughter libraries.
SDL is a cross-platform media library created by Lokigames. SDL is currently
used for many commercial and opensource game projects. This pygame binding
takes SDL's C interface and turns it into a more pythonic library with
objects, exceptions, and some python utility modules.

This version 0.5, (release about a month after the previous 0.4)
makes many bugfixes and a few small enhancements. At this point the
library api has settled into a solid state. The coming plans call
for a move to 1.0 within a couple of months. Now is a great time to
examine the project and send in feedback.


A tally list of pygame features (note, many are also SDL features);

    Cross platform, with multiple backends (x11, fbcon, svgalib, etc)
    Fullscreen or windowed accelerated graphics
    Image loading from popular formats; jpg, bmp, gif, png, etc
    Access image pixel data as Numeric Python arrays
    Blitting with colorkey and alpha support
    Multiple mixing sound channels
    Streaming music data as mp3, mod, wav, etc
    CDROM support with audio playback
    Joystick support
    Truetype font rendering, with antialiasing
    Support for multiple threads

The pygame package also comes with complete documentation, tutorials,
and many playable examples. The pygame mailing list has an active
list of users, which makes getting started much more accessable.

Pygame is distributed under the LGPL licese, which is the same
license used by many its dependencies. There are several types of
distributions for download; RPM, Precompiled Win32, and Source.










From tim.one at home.com  Sat Jan 27 06:09:13 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 06:09:13 -0500
Subject: . Python 2.1 function attributes
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0101270135190.7677-100000@y.glue.umd.edu>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCGEKGILAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Roy Katz]
> I find this explanation in need of more clarification:
>
>
> You did not address the issue of multiplying entities.  I personally
> see nothing wrong with function objects; they are light, and we can deal
> with them.  Why add yet *another* way of doing things?
> ...

Because the technique you suggest has been available for a decade, yet in
practice people refused to use it, preferring instead to abuse docstrings.
Have you read the PEP?  "Practicality beats purity" in Python:  an elegant
solution that masses of experienced Pythoneers refuse to use is an excellent
predictor of future language change.  And, for example, metaclasses are in
that boat too.

> # note: compared with f(), this implementation is an extra line
>
> class G:
>     attr = 0
>     def __call__(self): pass
>
> g = G() long
>
> ---VERSUS---
>
> def f():
>   { 'attr':0 }
>   pass

Note that the latter example is a fantasy:  it has not been implemented, and
I strongly doubt it ever will be.  What *is* in the 2.1 codebase (read the
PEP) is

def f():
    pass
f.attr = 0

I expect that this way of spelling it is instantly understandable to every
Python programmer.  The intent is obvious.  The point to the convolution in
your first way of writing it is well hidden.  You've also made life
supernaturally easy for yourself by not trying to add an attr to a *method*;
in 2.1 it works the same clean way as for a top-level function:

>>> class C:
...     def meth(self):
...         print 42
...     meth.attr = "hi!"
...
>>> c = C()
>>> c.meth.attr
'hi!'
>>>

> So the claim here is that saving a line of code justifies carving Python
> with Occam's Razor? Say it ain't so!

Best I can tell, that one line of code costs about a million brain cells to
reverse-engineer every time it appears.  Since people have historically
refused to do it that way, it's not an idiom, so it's not easy to recognize
for anyone save (possibly) its author.  Rewrite class C above and see
whether even you understand it anymore <wink>.

> I find the argument for function attributes weak.

Guido did too, but strong enough to approve.

> Hell, I wish to abolish .__doc__ for functions as well.

Fine, don't write docstrings, and run Python with -OO to remove other
peoples' documentation too.

> It just doesn't seem consistent.

Which was an argument in *favor* of adding general function attributes.
There's nothing special about func.__doc__ anymore, except the magical way
it gets set.

> Functions are functions, classes are classes.

That's still true.  Even better, you'll no longer be tempted to disguise
your functions *as* classes just to attach some data to them, and everyone
will find your code easier to read as a result.

> It seems to me even kludgier than print>>.

Barry also added code to Python 2.1 to let you write, e.g.,

    def f() >> x:
        x = 1
        y = 2

as a short way to spell "whatever the value of x is at the end of the
function, return that".  I'm sure you'll agree that's much cleaner than the
clumsy

    def f():
        x = 1
        y = 2
        return x

people suffer with today.

hoping-a-truly-bad-idea-adds-some-perspective<wink>-ly y'rs  - tim




From Randy.L.Kemp at motorola.com  Wed Jan 31 12:09:12 2001
From: Randy.L.Kemp at motorola.com (Kemp Randy-W18971)
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 11:09:12 -0600
Subject: Java-complex numbers
Message-ID: <69BC4C6AE83ED311BC9400805FA7B14AF84DC6@il93exp01.css.mot.com>

Go to www.northernlight.com, and do a search for "complex numbers in Java."  One sight at http://www.icsi.berkeley.edu/~phlipp/wwwipd.ira.uka.de/~gunthner/@index.html says:
An example for a Complex class can be found 
here (this is a 
reference implementation for complex numbers in Java). This class is part
of the com.visualnumerics.javagrande-package, written by
members of the JavaGrande Forum.

-----Original Message-----
From: Jaap Spies [mailto:j.spies at hccnet.nl]
Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2001 9:46 AM
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: Re: Java-complex numbers


Paul Schlyter wrote:

> In article <957b1q$m1h$1 at camelot.unirioja.es>,
> Jesus Maria Aransay <jesus-maria.aransay at dmc.unirioja.es> wrote:
>  
> 
>> I need some help for working in JAVA with complex numbers.
>> Could I find some classes or libraries for doing easier my work?
> 
>  
> You could hack such a class yourself in an hour or two, and it
> would be a good experience for you to do it.  It would also teach
> you that Java isn't really suitable for computation with complex
> numbers, because Java cannot overload infix operators.
>

 
I  agree!

 
> Why do you want to do this?  To learn Java?  Well, go ahead and do
> it!  Or because you need to do the computations?  If the latter, it's
> better to switch to a language with better supoport (either built-in
> or through classes) for complex numbers, such as C++ or Fortran.

No, no, no! Try Python or Jython

http://www.python.org/
http://www.jython.org/

Jaap Spies




From sholden at holdenweb.com  Wed Jan 10 17:34:57 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 17:34:57 -0500
Subject: default arguments newbie question
References: <3a5cccca.77467843@localhost>
Message-ID: <xu576.1026$X3.10322@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>

"Victor Muslin" <victor at prodigy.net> wrote in message
news:3a5cccca.77467843 at localhost...

> This behavior of the default list argument seems to be somewhat
> counter-intuitive:
>
> >>> def f(l=[]):
> ...   l.append(1)
> ...   print 'id=%d %s' % (id(l), l)
> ...
> >>> f()
> id=8369232 [1]
You just used the default empty list for your argument, and appended an item
to it.

> >>> f()
> id=8369232 [1, 1]
No argument again, so you use the same default list - and becuase you
appended one to it last time, guess what: it now contains two ones!

> >>> f()
> id=8369232 [1, 1, 1]
So now you know why you've got three ones this time.

> >>> f([2])
> id=8368384 [2, 1]
Good. Now we have an argument, so you append one to the list supplies as an
argument.

> >>> f()
> id=8369232 [1, 1, 1, 1]
Damn, we're back to the original default argumnet, and now you've appended
FOUR ones to it!

> >>>
>
> If I want a function to print "[1]" every time it is called with no
> arguments, do I have to do something like:
>
> def f(l=None):
>   if l == None:
>     print [1]
>   else:
>     print l.append(1)
>
Well, what's this function really supposed to do? <speculation> Seems to me
like you *really* want to print the function's argument which you expect to
be a list, with a 1 appended to it </speculation>.

But the function never RETURNS anything.  Would you want:

l = [33]
f(l)
f(l)

to print

[33, 1]
[33, 1, 1]

and what would you want to be in l at the end?

Maybe what you want is:

def f(l=None):
    if l:
        l.append(1)
        print l
    else:
        print [1]

but I'm not sure about that.

Also, l.append(anything) returns a value of None, so you shouldn't try to

    print l.append(1)

> What's the acceptable Python idiom for this?
>
The problem with the code you've given is that the empty list is bound to
the default argument when the function is defined, so you get the same empty
list for every call with no argument. Since you append to it, the list used
as default argument just keeps getting longer and longer!

regards
 Steve








From gzeljko at sezampro.yu  Fri Jan 26 16:41:16 2001
From: gzeljko at sezampro.yu (gzeljko)
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 22:41:16 +0100
Subject: python-2.1 function attributes
References: <ul3snm8dfae.fsf@smaug.fsl.noaa.gov>
Message-ID: <02d601c087e1$948e77d0$97bd6ac2@zko>

Will now class instance become function (method) attribute ?

just-curious-newbie





From justinhj at hotmail.com  Fri Jan 19 13:19:26 2001
From: justinhj at hotmail.com (JustinHJ)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 10:19:26 -0800
Subject: How to run script from interpreter?
References: <mailman.979912371.22565.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <t6h1ftlsb1936c@corp.supernews.com>

A cool thing I found out solving my own problem is that a module can be a
variable. So you want to run a module called 'bobsmodule'

    str = 'bobsmodule'

    fp, pathname, description = imp.find_module( modname )

    print 'importing module', modname
    LoadedModule = imp.load_module( modname, fp, pathname, description)
    LoadedModule.Afunctioninbobsmodule(i)

This gives you flexibility if you need it.





From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sun Jan  7 16:29:23 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2001 22:29:23 +0100
Subject: new enum idiom
References: <G6qzLy.6Fo@world.std.com> <938jmh$919$1@animus.fel.iae.nl> <3A58B9C0.9F2A5CC0@collins.rockwell.com>
Message-ID: <93an8v02d2n@news1.newsguy.com>

"Jonathan Polley" <@collins.rockwell.com> wrote in message
news:3A58B9C0.9F2A5CC0 at collins.rockwell.com...
> Is is possible to modify the 'enum' function so that I don't have to
provide a
> class?

Sure -- the 'enum' function can define and return a local class, for
example.

> I would like to just do a:
>
> MIDI_Event = enum("NOTE_ON", "NOTE_OFF", 3, "POLYPHONIC_KEY_PRESSURE",
> "CONTROLLER_CHANGE")
>
> and then do MIDI_Event.NOTE_ON.

One approach might be:

def enum(*args):
    class Enum: pass
    curval = 0
    for arg in args:
        if type(arg)==type(''):
            setattr(Enum, arg, curval)
            curval += 1
        else:
            curval = arg
    return Enum

This assumes a non-string argument (typically an integer, but that's not
checked
here) is meant to set the value to be named by the string-argument
immediately
*following* it -- a substantial simplification.  So substantial, that if one
needed to
have non-string arguments signify the value of the *preceding* argument, it
might
be best to start by bringing about the simpler case first, i.e., right at
the start of
the function, something like:
    args = list(args)
    i = 0
    while i<len(args)-1:
        if type(args[i+1])!=type(''):
            args[i],args[i+1] = args[i+1],args[i]
            i += 1
        i += 1
to proceed as before.  Or maybe that would just be moving the complexity!-)

Needing to explicitly set values in an enum is rare enough, that it would
seem
fully acceptable to me to place the explicit values right _before_ their
names in
those rare cases, using the much-simpler code above.  Viva simplicity...!-)


> On a related note, how would I map between the enumeration and its ordinal
value?
> Would I add the methods 'ord' and 'val' to the base class
> (MIDI_Event.ord(MIDI_Event.NOTE_OFF)) yields 3 and MIDI_Event.val(0)
yields
> MIDI_Event.NOTE_ON)?

I don't get it.  MIDI_Event.NOTE_OFF denotes the value 3; why do you want to
have MIDI_Event.ord(x) return the same value x that it is passed as
argument?
If you have 'NOTE_OFF' as a string, you can use it as 2nd argument to
getattr,
with MIDI_Event as the 1st argument, etc.

If you _occasionally_ need to know what string (name) corresponds to a
non-string
value in the enumeration, a linear search may suffice; however, if
MIDI_Event is a
class, you cannot easily set up things so that MIDI_Event.nameOf(0) can be
called.

When functions are set as attributes of a class, they are mutated into
unbound
methods, which can be called only with a class-instance as the first
argument.  So,
MIDI_Event.nameOf would have to denote a callable that is not a function
(e.g.,
an instance of a class with a __call__ attribute).  Not easy or comfortable,
though
quite possible.

But just as you will use a non-method syntax such as
    getattr(MIDI_Event, 'NOTE_OFF')
to find the value corresponding to a name, why not use a similar syntax to
find
the name corresponding to a value?  THAT is easy...:

def getnameof(enum, value):
    for n, v in enum.__dict__.items():
        if v==value: return n
    else: raise ValueError, "value (%s) not found in enum (%s)" % (
            value,enum.__name__)

I would not bother to think up clever ways to use MIDI_Event.nameOf syntax
(although, actually, ensuring MIDI_Event is a class-*instance* object as
opposed to a class-*object* would be reasonably easy... and, on instances,
method-syntax IS easy to arrange!-).  Getting all that fancy in the pursuit
of a debatably-appropriate morsel of syntax sugar is a waste of energy!


Regarding performance, which IS a bit more important than syntax sugar...:

enums are typically small enough that a linear search should yield perfectly
acceptable performance, particularly considering that the value-to-name
mapping is hardly going to be a very frequent operation.

If, later, profiling your application should unexpectedly prove that the
getnameof performance is actually a bottleneck for it, it will be reasonably
easy to optimize it (by inserting a reverse-lookup dictionary as one of
the attributes of the Enum class if and when needed -- this will mean the
values have to be hashable, but, as they're meant to be typically integers,
that should be no serious problem).

However, don't do it unless the need is _proven_ (by profiling carefully,
if your application performance is not satisfactory).  *Do the simplest
thing that could possibly work*...


Alex





From wlsonna at attglobal.net  Wed Jan  3 21:39:56 2001
From: wlsonna at attglobal.net (William Sonna)
Date: 4 Jan 2001 02:39:56 GMT
Subject: A single, general looping construct? (was: why no "do : until"?)
References: <92jj3j$ff7$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <92m9pm$d19$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <B3z36.122$9s1.18804@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com> <3A4EC5B1.8912E571@engcorp.com> <x8G36.156$9s1.31209@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com> <92qc21$538$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <0O7zTzsxerl5-pn2-SISYKtwXTOmR@bill>

On Mon, 1 Jan 2001 16:42:42, rturpin at my-deja.com wrote:

> In article <x8G36.156$9s1.31209 at e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com>,
>   kragen at dnaco.net (Kragen Sitaker) wrote:
> > I would want to outdent it because, in my view, it isn't
> > part of the loop body; it's part of the loop structure
> > itself, just like the while 1: at the beginning. ..
> 
> Hi, Kragen. I see your reasoning, and it reminds me
> of something.
> 
> A couple of decades ago, when the programming journals
> were full of arguments about the "right" control
> statements for structured programming, someone proposed
> a single iteration statement that generalized (a) the
> "while" statement, (b) the "do .. until" statement,
> and (c) the loop with an exit in the middle. I forget
> where the paper appeared, the name of the author, and
> the exact syntax. But the core idea, in Pythonic syntax,
> would look like this:
> 
>     do: <A> while <x>: <B>
> 
> Where <A>, and <B> are code blocks, and <x> is the
> conditional. With indentation there are three forms:
> 
>     # "while" form
>     do while <x>:     # In this case, make "do" optional
>         <B>
>     ..
> 
>     # "repeat .. until" form
>     do:
>         <A>
>     while <x>
>     ..
> 
>     # "exit in the middle" form
>     do:
>         <A>
>     while <x>:
>         <B>           # Loop continues at "do"
>     ..
> 
> I always thought this was a slick solution to the question
> of iterative control structures.  If the language allows
> repetition of the "while <x>: <B>" in the same loop, this
> construct provides multiple exits.  (I mention this, even
> though my first reaction to it is: yuch.)  Obviously, the
> language could choose to express the exit condition rather
> than the loop condition, with a keyword such as "until".
>

Interesting concept!  Thanks for the info.

Object Rexx's implementation of the generalized do is the best I've 
seen (in a real language, that is).  Works like this:

do count = 1 to 100       /* fixed number of iterations */
    yadda
    yadda 
end
 
do while count < 100   /* zero or more iterations */
    yadda
    yadda
end

do until count >=100    /* one or more iterations */
  yadda
  yadda
end

do i over extent   /* iterate over a collection */
  yadda
  yadda
end

do forever    /* you guessed it */
  yadda
  yadda
end

Since Python substitutes colon plus indentation for "do" and "end", in
Pythonese, this would look like:

count 1 to 99:            # fixed number of iterations
      yadda
      yadda 

while count < 100:   # zero or more iterations
      yadda
      yadda

until count <=100:    # one or more iterations
    yadda
    yadda

count in extent:         # iterate over collection
    yadda
    yadda

forever :                    # infinite loop
    yadda
    yadda

Which are all (with the exception of the ones that are identical or 
nearly identical) cleaner and even more Pythonic than Python.

How many new keywords? one (if you can part with the unnecessary 
"for") or two (if you can't)

> My own view is this: I am plenty happy with "while". If
> Guido decides to expand the iteration constructs, I would
> prefer to see him think about a generalization of the
> "while" statement, rather than adding a second and third.
> Keep it simple. Less is better than more. One way to do
> everything. Etc.
> 

Fortran had even simpler control structures than Python, and was a 
royal pain to use as a result.

Although I enjoy using Python and am generally supportive of its 
minimalist philosophy, I still believe that the "while 1:  buried 
break" is a step backwards.

Many of the classic algorithms are best expressed with "do until" or 
"repeat until" and translating them into Python requires the 
introduction of a uniquely inelegant language idiom.


From victor at prodigy.net  Wed Jan  3 16:59:37 2001
From: victor at prodigy.net (Victor Muslin)
Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 21:59:37 GMT
Subject: Iterating over multiple lists (a newbie question)
Message-ID: <3a539f3a.445366109@localhost>

This may be rather silly, but I can't think of a clever way...

To traverse a single list the code is:

	for item in list:
		print item

However, if there are multiple lists (of the same length) is there a
cleverer way to do the following:

	for i in range(0,len(list1)):
		print list1[i], list2[i]

I would like something like this (which obviously does not work):

	for one,two in list1, list2:
		print one,two

TIA


From mjackson at wc.eso.mc.xerox.com  Tue Jan  2 11:05:48 2001
From: mjackson at wc.eso.mc.xerox.com (Mark Jackson)
Date: 2 Jan 2001 16:05:48 GMT
Subject: using 'global' across source files.
References: <slrn953qe5.pcr.scarblac@pino.selwerd.nl>
Message-ID: <92su8s$ofo$1@news.wrc.xerox.com>

scarblac at pino.selwerd.nl (Remco Gerlich) writes:

> No. Right. 'val' should exist in one module only. If you want it to be in
> prog.py, funcs.py must import prog, access the variable there, and the code
> would look like this:
> 
> # funcs.py
> 
> def change_val():
>    import prog
>    prog.val = prog.val * 2
> 
> # prog.py
> 
> val=100
> import funcs
> 
> funcs.change_val()
> print val
> 
> And the other way around it would look like this:
> 
> # funcs.py
> 
> def change_val():
>    global val
>    val = val*2
>    
> # prog.py
> 
> import funcs
> funcs.val = 100
> 
> funcs.change_val()
> 
> print funcs.val

[from Bram Stolk <bram at sara.nl>]

> > Nor can it find it, if I prefix it as '__main__.val'.
> 
> But
> 
> import sys
> print sys.modules['__main__'].val
> 
> works

Not generally.  It "works" iff you use your first example as a script
('python -i prog.py'), only because this happens to create val in the
__main__ namespace.

-- 
Mark Jackson - http://www.alumni.caltech.edu/~mjackson
	The power of accurate observation is frequently called
	cynicism by those who don't have it.
			- George Bernard Shaw




From gregj at pobox.com  Wed Jan 24 14:58:02 2001
From: gregj at pobox.com (Greg Jorgensen)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 19:58:02 GMT
Subject: Count and replacing strings a texfile
References: <94i9ft$apq$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <94llph$8dl$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <94mans01r5p@news2.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <94nc43$n0g$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

In article <94mans01r5p at news2.newsguy.com>,
  "Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote:
> ...
> I like this general approach better than the RE-based
> ones; however, building up the 'result' string by
> successive concatenations is apt to be pretty slow --
> remember the typical start string was said to be over
> 120k and to contain 'several' occurrences of '%id%'.
>
> In general, building a big string by successive + or
> += of many small pieces is O(N squared).

I follow the K&R maxim to keep it simple, make it work first, and if
it's too slow, speed up the slow parts. If this is a one-off
performance is probably of little concern. In my experience with Python
doing text processing on lots of little files and a few big ones, I
haven't seen any performance problems worth worrying about. But your
analysis is correct: successive concatentation of chunks of text is not
the most efficient technique, and there is lots of room for speeding up
that bit if necessary. Pre-allocating the result string is probably the
best and easiest optimization. In this case the maximum size of the
result string can be calculated in advance:

  n = len(original_string)
  x = number of occurences of %id%
  resultlen = n - (x * len("%id%")) + (x * len(str(x)))

Then just use rstrip() on the result to remove the trailing spaces. Or
get the exact length:

  m = 0
  for i in range(1, x+1):
      m += len(str(i))

  resultlen = n - (x * len("%id%")) + m

But I'm assuming that allocating the maximum length, then doing one
rstrip() on the result string is faster than iterating over the list
just to get the exact length.

The mathematically inclined can calculate the exact number of
characters in the sequence 1..x without iterating over the list.

--
Greg Jorgensen
Portland, Oregon, USA
gregj at pobox.com


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From JoeSmith at bogusaddress.com  Thu Jan  4 02:31:35 2001
From: JoeSmith at bogusaddress.com (Joe Smith)
Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 07:31:35 GMT
Subject: Unexpected result for list operator "+="
Message-ID: <3A542778.E1BC06E3@bogusaddress.com>

I unexpectedly get l1 modified by doing "l += l2" (see example 1).  I take
it is because l and l1 point to the same object.  If I use the string type
instead of the list type, I don't get l2 modified.  I guess that list
assignment is an assignment of the reference to the object and it does not
copy the object.  Where as a string object gets copied (see example 2).

example 1:
>>> l1 = [0, 1]
>>> print l1
[0, 1]
>>> l2 = [2, 3]
>>> l = l1
>>> print l1
[0, 1]
>>> print l
[0, 1]
>>> l += l2
>>> print l1
[0, 1, 2, 3]
>>> print l
[0, 1, 2, 3]
>>>

example 2:
>>> s1 = "1"
>>> s2 = "2"
>>> s = s1
>>> s += s2
>>> print s1
1
>>>




From tsachi at richfx.com  Wed Jan 24 09:00:28 2001
From: tsachi at richfx.com (Tsachi BZ)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 16:00:28 +0200
Subject: Retriving CPU & memory usage.
Message-ID: <94mn4c$ent$1@news.netvision.net.il>

I would like to know if there is a way to retrive CPU & Memory usage in
python (I'm writing an automatic tool for QA).

Thanks in advance,

Tsachi.




From sholden at holdenweb.com  Wed Jan 10 16:54:37 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 16:54:37 -0500
Subject: Lib Directory
References: <mailman.979156032.17886.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3U476.459$24.4974@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com>

"Hendrik du Toit" <hendrikt at payware.co.za> wrote in message
news:mailman.979156032.17886.python-list at python.org...
> Hi there,
>
> I am using the mxODBC and mxDateTime modules on Windows NT and Python
> 2.0.  When the modules are extracted (unzipped) it places the modules on
> a ODBC and DateTime directories.  It is then instructed to copy these
> files to the lib sub directory.  I am using the above as an example but
> my question is more generic:
>
> 1.  Should I copy the contents of the directory directly to the lib
> directory i.e.
> Lets say the extraction directory is ODBC with the .pyd modules and
> __init__.pyc in this directory and other directories are ODBC\Doc
> ODBC\Misc.  Should the final result then be to copy the __init__.pyc
> file in the  d:\python20\lib directory and the rest of the directories
> will create a structure called d:\python20\lib\doc &
> d:\python20\lib\misc?.

No. mxDOBC and mxDateTime are *packages*, not modules, and the __init__.py
files (and their compiled variants) inform the system about the structure of
the package.

>                        This does not make sense because there is already
> a __init__.pyc file in d:\python20\lib and there might be other products
> with a doc directory.  This will screw up the grouping of the products
> in the d:\python20\lib directory or;

Correct. You don't want to tangle with this.

> 2.  Should I copy the entire ODBC sub directory to d:\python20\lib so
> that I have d:\python20\lib\odbc with __init__.pyc located in this
> directory and the rest of it will be d:\python20\lib\odbc\doc &
> d:\python20\lib\misc?  If the later is the case, will python
> automatically find the .pyc modules in these sub directories or should I
> set dome environment variables?
>
Consider creating a "site-packages" subdirectory in D:\Python20\Lib.

Then create a D:\Python20Lib\sitecustomize.py file containing:

import site
site.addsitedir(r"D:\Python20\Lib\site-packages")

The relevant subset of my directory tree looks like this:

D:\Python20
   Lib
      site-packages
         DateTime
         ODBC
         Pmw

Each of the subdirectories of D:\Python20\Lib\site-packages has its own
__init__.py, declaring the structure of the package.


> I am a willing reader.  If anybody can point me to some documentation
> about this I will go a find it there.
>
> Regards,
> Hendrik
>
The current documentation at the end of section 6.11 says:

"""[XXX Can't be bothered to spell this out right now; see the URL
http://www.python.org/doc/essays/packages.html for more details, also about
how the module search works from inside a package.] """

regards
 Steve






From fakeaddress at nospammail.com  Mon Jan 29 01:05:58 2001
From: fakeaddress at nospammail.com (Ben Catanzariti)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 17:05:58 +1100
Subject: Pythonpath in Windows
References: <bc5d6.199994$iy3.48342380@news1.rdc1.tn.home.com>
Message-ID: <kc1359.sjs.ln@mail>

Try looking at "sys.path" in the python docs ... this may help


"Mike Callahan" <mcalla at home.com> wrote in message
news:bc5d6.199994$iy3.48342380 at news1.rdc1.tn.home.com...
> I would like to get my windows python 2.0 to be able to import any script
> that is in the current working directory. Do I need to add '.' to the
> pythonpath in the registry? Is that the only thing?
>
> Mike Callahan
>
>
>




From fgeiger at datec.at  Sun Jan 21 04:11:36 2001
From: fgeiger at datec.at (Franz GEIGER)
Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 10:11:36 +0100
Subject: Blackadder - any opinions?
References: <94c6cu$hl2$1@bob.news.rcn.net>
Message-ID: <94e923$2qp$1@newsreaderm1.core.theplanet.net>

Had a quick look on it at their site, but miss a debugger. While I'm waiting
for Komodo to be released as a 1.0 version I keep using PythonWin. This
holds for dev on NT. I don't know how dev'ing on Unix, though.

Best reagrds
Franz

"Satheesh Babu" <vsbabu at erols.com> wrote in message
news:94c6cu$hl2$1 at bob.news.rcn.net...
> Hi,
>
> I saw this Python IDE at
> http://www.thekompany.com/products/blackadder/
>
> Personal edition is $49. Just wondering anybody had any
> experience with that before I think of buying it.
>
> Screenshots look good though the site is damn too slow!
>
> Babu
>
> --
> v.s.babu
> vsbabu at erols.com
> http://vsbabu.csoft.net
>
>




From alain at onesite.org  Wed Jan 10 13:06:28 2001
From: alain at onesite.org (Alain TESIO)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 19:06:28 +0100
Subject: Please help with feeding a popen2 pipe with a large input
References: <ma2p5t860t53llqp9jec2umqcj2073hf5d@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <b39p5tkg0blhl64k3ist6dsmko2fud8toc@4ax.com>

Carsten Gaebler  wrote

> This is because you never read the output of the pipe,
> so cat's STDOUT fills up and blocks which keeps cat
> from reading from STDIN which fills up and blocks, too.

It hangs when I'm trying to read from stdout :

total length is 249866, bufsize is 1000
writing from 0 to 999 ...ok
Reading out ...


It works fine with a limited output from wc instead of cat, when I'm reading stdout and
stderr after stdin in closed.

What's the difference between os.popen3 and popen2.popen3, except the parameter order is
not the same ?

Alain



Here's the script attempting to read stdout :


def MyPipe(command,string_in):
	bufsize=1000
	import popen2
	(pipe_out,pipe_in,pipe_err)=popen2.popen3(command,bufsize*2)
#	(pipe_in,pipe_out,pipe_err)=os.popen3(command,bufsize*2)
	l=len(string_in)
	sys.stdout.write("total length is %i, bufsize is %i\n" % (l,bufsize))
	start=0
	end=0
	string_out=""
	string_err=""
	while end<l:
		end=min(l,start+bufsize)
		sys.stdout.write("writing from %i to %i ..." % (start,end-1))
		pipe_in.write(string_in[start:end])
		sys.stdout.write("ok\n")
		start=start+bufsize
		sys.stdout.write("Reading out ...")
		string_out=string_out+pipe_out.read()
		sys.stdout.write("ok\n")
		sys.stdout.write("Reading err ...")
		string_err=string_err+pipe_err.read()
		sys.stdout.write("ok\n")
	sys.stdout.write("closing pipe stdin ...")
	pipe_in.close()
	sys.stdout.write("ok\n")
	pipe_err.close()
	pipe_out.close()
	sys.stdout.write("out : %i bytes, err : %i bytes\n" %
(len(string_out),len(string_err)))
	return (string_out,string_err)

f=open("tmp")
h=f.read()
f.close()

execfile("observer.py")
(out,err)=MyPipe("cat",h)






From cpr at emsoftware.com  Sat Jan 13 18:56:52 2001
From: cpr at emsoftware.com (Chris Ryland)
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 15:56:52 -0800
Subject: why is a negative shift value illegal?
Message-ID: <002c01c07dd3$1c9a7570$6501a8c0@EM2>

>From 2.0 manual, 5.7:

'''A right shift by n bits is defined as division by pow(2,n). A left shift
by n bits is defined as multiplication with pow(2,n); for plain integers
there is no overflow check so in that case the operation drops bits and
flips the sign if the result is not less than pow(2,31) in absolute value.
Negative shift counts raise a ValueError exception.'''

Why shouldn't negative shifts just mean a shift in the opposite direction?
To avoid confusion? Becuse there's only way way to do things in Python?

E.g., 16 << -2 seems like it might well be defined as 16 >> 2.

Cheers!
Chris Ryland, President * Em Software, Inc. * www.emsoftware.com




From fredrik at effbot.org  Sat Jan 20 07:16:59 2001
From: fredrik at effbot.org (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 12:16:59 GMT
Subject: BeOpen 2.0 vs PythonWare
References: <mailman.979914382.23892.python-list@python.org> <o3aa6.7717$AH6.1213244@newsc.telia.net> <94btrs$4rr$1@news.adamastor.ac.za>
Message-ID: <%kfa6.7751$AH6.1222557@newsc.telia.net>

James Lockley wrote:
> > hey, you forgot one: the PythonWare PY20 distro:
> >
> >     http://www.pythonware.com/downloads.htm
> >
>
> i found i couldn't add win32all to it though.... (is that just a directory
> naming issue?)

iirc, it's caused by the

    +/- doesn't mess with the registry/system directory

item.  I think we have a fix in the works (watch the site
for updates)

Cheers /F




From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Jan 19 09:00:36 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 15:00:36 +0100
Subject: How to get method's arguments
References: <t6gedbl259o724@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <949haa02cil@news1.newsguy.com>

"Victor Black" <muk_pr at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:t6gedbl259o724 at corp.supernews.com...
> 1.How does IDLE show the argument list of a method or procedure.
> e.g when you write "dir(" a hint writing "dir([object]) -> list of
strings"
> pops up.
> (The sources are available but overwhelming)

Python's reflection/introspection powers are good, but, here, what
is involved is rather the documentation-string that gets attached
to each Python function (and several other objects) if the author
bothers to put it in.

A function object has an attribute named __doc__, containing its
documentation-string (or None, if no docstring).  E.g.:

def foo(bar):
    "foo(number) -> a bigger number"
    return bar+1

Now, foo.__doc__ is bound to the string
"foo(number) -> a bigger number".  The same string is also bound
to attribute foo.func_doc (I don't know why in this case there
are two ways to access the same data -- I may be missing something!).

If you wish, you can also truly find out about a function's
arguments from within Python.

foo.func_code is bound to the code-object which the funtion
runs.  Each code-object X has some useful attributes, such as:
    X.co_argcount    number of arguments
    X.co_varnames    local variable names; the first X.co_argcount
                     ones are the names of the *arguments*
    X.co_flags       has bit 4 set if X accepts arbitrary args
                     with the *args syntax; bit 8 set, if it
                     accepts arbitrary named args with **kwds syntax

And, back to the function-object we mentioned, foo.func_defaults
is bound to the tuple of default values for the function's
arguments, so you also know which ones are optional!  Note that
the optional arguments, if any, are always the _last_ (rightmost)
len(foo.func_defaults) ones.

But I don't think IDLE really needs to get into these introspection
issues -- I suspect it can get away with just the docstring (I have
not checked its sources to check exactly what it _does_ do for
tip-displaying purposes).


Alex





From chris at voodooland.net  Sun Jan 21 18:03:41 2001
From: chris at voodooland.net (Chris Watson)
Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 17:03:41 -0600 (CST)
Subject: patch for python configure for freeBSD and Zope
In-Reply-To: <01012211280401.00887@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.21.0101211701480.77700-100000@open-systems.net>

> Hi, I'm using  freeBSD 4.2-RELEASE and just tried to install python-1.5.2 and
> Zope.  If you are trying to do the same and tun into the following error when
> trying to start zope, then apply this patch to the configure script of python
> and rebuild it.
> 
> ImportError: ./ExtensionClass.so: Undefined symbol "PyMethod_Type"

Matt,

	Is this an error in the port itself of python? Python 2.0 is in
ports as well as zope. If there is a problem with either port can you give
more detail so the apropriate maintainer can be notified. Thanks!	

--
=============================================================================
-Chris Watson         (316) 326-3862 | FreeBSD Consultant, FreeBSD Geek 
Work:              scanner at jurai.net | Open Systems Inc., Wellington, Kansas
Home:  scanner at deceptively.shady.org | http://open-systems.net
=============================================================================
WINDOWS: "Where do you want to go today?"
LINUX: "Where do you want to go tomorrow?"
BSD: "Are you guys coming or what?"
=============================================================================
GNU = Gnu's Non-portable & Unstable
irc.openprojects.net #FreeBSD -Join the revolution!
ICQ: 20016186




From tim at degree.ath.cx  Fri Jan 26 20:48:30 2001
From: tim at degree.ath.cx (Tim Hammerquist)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 01:48:30 GMT
Subject: .cgi or .cgp or .py or ?
References: <mailman.980510879.2920.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrn974afo.eav.tim@degree.ath.cx>

Oleg Broytmann <phd at phd.pp.ru> wrote:
> > described.  (Obviously, P*** didn't need this sort of promotion to
> > succeed, and neither does Python.)
> 
>    Then Python, you think, succeed by itself, just by its existence? I
> think you are wrong :) We need to develop the language and the core,
> libraries and communities. We certainly should promote Python.

Of course it doesn't succeed by virtue of its existence, but what I said
was, neither Perl nor Python need "this sort of promotion" to succeed.
Nor did I say we shouldn't promote Python.

And to the OP's question: use whichever extension works best for you, at
least as far as the main script is concerned.  Imported modules need the
.py (or .pyc) to be imported correctly.

-- 
-Tim Hammerquist <timmy at cpan.org>
Diplomacy -- the art of saying "Nice doggie"
'til you can find a stick.
	-- Wynn Catlin


From dan.rolander at marriott.com  Wed Jan 17 08:13:21 2001
From: dan.rolander at marriott.com (Dan Rolander)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 08:13:21 -0500
Subject: how to run a DOS program without getting a box?
References: <3A64E195.ECA51312@cableinet.co.uk> <Kwb96.3026$3N1.69942@news2-win.server.ntlworld.com>
Message-ID: <026401c08087$4469ab50$11260340@yin>

Richard (and Richard),

pythow.exe is fine if you want to run a python script without starting a
console window, but if you want to launch external programs from within a
python script here is how to do it:

If you are starting a Windows application, first get the Win32 extensions at
http://www.activestate.com/Products/ActivePython/win32all.html. Then import
win32api and use WinExec() like this:

>>> import win32api
>>> win32api.WinExec("notepad")

If you want to launch a DOS application, and don't want a console window but
you do want to capture stdout, you can just import os and use popen() like
this:

>>> import os
>>> test = os.popen("c:\\test.bat")
>>> for L in test.readlines():
...  print L
...

D:\Documents\Dan\PythonScripts\projects\pineapple>echo This is a test
This is a test

I hope this helps you!
Dan

----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Chamberlain" <richard_chamberlainREMOVE at ntlworld.com>
Newsgroups: comp.lang.python
To: <python-list at python.org>
Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2001 2:13 AM
Subject: Re: how to run a DOS program without getting a box?


> There is a file called pythonw.exe which is python without the command
box.
>
> Richard
>
> Richard Dobson <rwd at cableinet.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:3A64E195.ECA51312 at cableinet.co.uk...
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I have tried both os.system() and the exec~ calls, and they all cause
> > the Windows console to display when running a command-line program (in
> > my case, to play a soundfile I don't need to see the screen messages).
> > Is there a way to suppress this? Other languages, such as tcl/tk and GNU
> > Octave manage this fine. I'm using Python 2.0 under Windows2000 (sp1),
> > with IDLE.
> >
> >
> > Richard Dobson
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Test your DAW with my Soundcard Attrition Page!
> > http://www.bath.ac.uk/~masrwd (LU: 3rd July 2000)
> > CDP: http://www.bath.ac.uk/~masjpf/CDP/CDP.htm (LU: 23rd February 2000)
>
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>




From tjreedy at udel.edu  Wed Jan 24 13:54:20 2001
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 13:54:20 -0500
Subject: python-2.1 function attributes
References: <ul3snm8dfae.fsf@smaug.fsl.noaa.gov>
Message-ID: <94n7tu$41c$1@news.udel.edu>

"Mike Romberg" <romberg at smaug.fsl.noaa.gov> wrote in message
news:ul3snm8dfae.fsf at smaug.fsl.noaa.gov...
>
>   I've been messing around with python-2.1a1 and have discovered the
> new feature 'function attributes'.  The project I'm currently working
> on can really use this feature.
> http://python.sourceforge.net/peps/pep-0232.html

Not having read the PEP, I wondered 'what is this good for?' when I read
GvR's announcement.
The PEP gives three possible uses.  Is your use something different?  (that
you can tell us?)

Now having read the PEP, it occurs to me that this could be used to supply
optional type information to a compiler without any of the ugly syntax
changes that have been proposed and so far rejected.

# example of function with identified parameter and return type information
from type import *
def f(a,b): pass
f.argtypes = {'a':IntType, 'b':ListType, 'f':StringType}

Someone wanting to experiment along this line need only fix on an attribute
name and syntax and proceed without any further approvals.

Terry J. Reedy





From tim.one at home.com  Fri Jan 26 02:42:55 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 02:42:55 -0500
Subject: Why isn't crypt.py in Win32 Python distribution?
In-Reply-To: <6176E3D8E36FD111B58900805FA7E0F80CCF6323@mcnc-mdm1-ex01>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCKEFOILAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Dan Rolander]
> Just curious. Why isn't crypt.py included in the standard python
> distribution for Windows?

There's no crypt.py in any distribution of Python.  There's a C module,
cryptmodule.c, which is not compiled on Windows, because it relies on a
non-standard external C function

    extern char * crypt(const char *, const char *);

that comes with Unix C libraries but is not supplied by Microsoft's C
runtime.  So the only way it will ever show up on Windows is if someone
contributes an unencumbered Windows implementation.




From vecernik at aon.at  Fri Jan 26 05:06:56 2001
From: vecernik at aon.at (Oliver Vecernik)
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 11:06:56 +0100
Subject: proxy server
Message-ID: <3A714C40.D3E0D684@aon.at>

Hi all,

has anybody ever written a small proxy server in python for logging http
protocol between client and server? I need it for debugging a http
client development for an embedded system.

Oliver


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Wed Jan 17 18:06:39 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 00:06:39 +0100
Subject: help with code for combinations/permutations
References: <944adl$2bf@dispatch.concentric.net> <944opo$2b9@dispatch.concentric.net> <mailman.979764021.20668.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9458l301fs0@news2.newsguy.com>

"Andreas Jung" <andreas at andreas-jung.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.979764021.20668.python-list at python.org...
> On Wed, Jan 17, 2001 at 06:37:44PM +0000, Bryan Webb wrote:
> > Thanks to all that responded.
> >
> > I wasnt as clear as I should have been. (as usual)
> > I really need to come up with all the possible sums of the numbers in
the
> > list ie. 1 , sum(1 + 2), sum(1 + 2 + 3) ,sum( 1+2+4),sum( 1 + 3) and so
on.
>
> Ok, now you are talking about subsets but not of permutations. Because the
> order of the elements does not matter there are much fewer possibilities.
I

Specifically, a N-element set has 2**N subsets including the trivial ones.

> suggest to make an example by hand: take a set of 4 elements and generate
all
> subsets by hand. Then you will learn how such an algorithm should work.

Come on, it's much easier than that!

class Subsets:
    def __init__(self, alist):
        self.list=alist
    def __getitem__(self, n):
        L = len(self.list)
        if n>=(1<<L): raise IndexError,n
        return [self.list[i] for i in range(L) if n&(1<<i)]

and now just

    totals = {}
    for subset in Subsets(mylist):
        totals[reduce(operator.add,subset)]=1
    totals = totals.keys()
    totals.sort()
    print totals

or whatever subset-specific processing you desire.


Alex





From vesemir at pro1.promail.pl  Sun Jan  7 13:52:21 2001
From: vesemir at pro1.promail.pl (Vesemir)
Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2001 19:52:21 +0100
Subject: dynamic logins
Message-ID: <93adni$jko$1@sunsite.icm.edu.pl>

Hello!

How to make scripts allowing to log on my site and to store this info since
the user will logout from my site!
How to write chat scripts with user logins?
Is need to write tsr script?


Yours
QdlatY




From fredrik at effbot.org  Sun Jan 14 13:01:47 2001
From: fredrik at effbot.org (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 18:01:47 GMT
Subject: how do i disable buffered output, like Perl's '$|=1'?
References: <979490967.23219.0.pluto.d4ee691b@news.demon.nl> <93so5m$biirv$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de> <979494993.24992.0.pluto.d4ee691b@news.demon.nl>
Message-ID: <fQl86.6559$AH6.979259@newsc.telia.net>

floR wrote:
> Not exactly what I meant, I think.

It does exactly what you want -- but sure, there are
other ways to do the same thing:

> Okay, what I want to do in particular, is to send 'print' commands to the
> browser in intervals, without buffering, something like the following:
>
+ import sys
> print 'Content-type: text/html\n\n'
> countdown = 10
> while countdown:
>     print countdown
>     countdown = countdown - 1
+     sys.stdout.flush() # flush output buffers
>     sleep(1)
>
> so that the countdown seems to happen in your browser, instead of waiting
> for 10 seconds for the string '10 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1' to appear.

(this assumes that your server sends data to the client
as soon it arrives from the CGI script, of course).

Cheers /F




From zippy1984 at my-deja.com  Fri Jan 26 05:33:01 2001
From: zippy1984 at my-deja.com (zippy1984 at my-deja.com)
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 10:33:01 GMT
Subject: win32com.client - need some help
References: <94mjj8$v3g$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <94mrs102b3i@news2.newsguy.com> <94pa5c$aqb$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <94pni302k2g@news2.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <94rjot$cbk$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

> >
> >    HRESULT getDictionary([out] IDispatch** pDictionary);
> >    [id(0x12345678)]
>
> Unusual ([out] is generally [out,retval]) but OK.

Well, I do get a return value, but not what I expected.....
So, I don't know if this is important.


>
> What happens if you do a dir(dic.__class__) -- what methods
> does this class expose?  IS it a makepy-generated class?  If
> it isn't, then there's some trouble brewing.
>

Right you are.... :

>>> dic = ob.getDictionary()
>>> dir(dic.__class__)
['__doc__', '__module__', '_wrap_dispatch_']
>>> dic.__class__.__module__
'win32com.client'
>>> print dic.__class__.__doc__

    The dynamic class used as a last resort.
    The purpose of this overriding of dynamic.CDispatch is to
perpetuate the policy
    of using the makepy generated wrapper Python class instead of
dynamic.CDispatch
    if/when possible.

>>>


...I guess this is not what I wanted to see...?

What is causing these problems?  Is it a "poor" definition in the
COM server that does not give win32com enough information?  Is there
any way working around this?  I do not have access to sources for the
COM server, so if it is responsible for the troubles then I do have
a problem.


regards, Tom





Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From sholden at holdenweb.com  Wed Jan 17 05:36:53 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 05:36:53 -0500
Subject: access FoxPro files without ODBC
References: <943qu9$hde$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <8Fe96.5294$DI.58645@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>

<godcha at my-deja.com> wrote in message news:943qu9$hde$1 at nnrp1.deja.com...
> This is a newbie question...
>
> But after browsing Python Library reference,
> Python FAQ, and comp.lang.python, I have not been
> able to determine if there is a way to access FoxPro files without ODBC
> available for Python.
>
> any help appreciated
>
> Thanks
>
> Godefroid Chapelle
> BubbleNet sprl
> Louvain-la-Neuve Belgium
>
As a newbie (welcome aboard, by the way) you will come to value a web site
known as the Vaults of Parnassus (http://www.vex.net/parnassus/), which
contains many useful Python modules and programs.

Take a look at http://www.vex.net/parnassus/apyllo.py?find=foxpro -- I think
this will suit your needs quite well. (Note also it uses Python to search
its database).

Good luck!

regards
 Steve




From tim.one at home.com  Sat Jan 13 15:13:29 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 15:13:29 -0500
Subject: A small suggestion for Python
In-Reply-To: <93p4oh$919$1@newsreaderg1.core.theplanet.net>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCKEHAIIAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Franz GEIGER]
> Another idea: It could return what we all excpect to be returned:
> The object that was sorted!

As a general rule, in Python, methods that alter a mutable object in-place
return None, not the object.  list.sort() is only one such.  list.insert()
and list.append() and list.extend() and list.reverse() and list.remove() and
dict.update() and dict.clear() and ... are others.

> So if a list is sorted, why not return the sorted list?

Because Guido doesn't want to <0.9 wink>.  Python has been consistent along
a a different axis for 10 years (see above).  Returning the sorted list
wouldn't help, either:  you might stop complaining, but we'd get an at least
equal number of new complaints about, e.g.,

>>> y = x.sort()
>>> y.append(42)

WHY DID THAT CHANGE WHATS IN X???  I DIDN'T CHANGE X!  I CHANGED Y AS ANY
IDIUT CAN SEE.  STUPID LANGWAGE IN PURL THE SORT FUCTION DOSNT DO THAT!!!
HOW CAN ANYONRE USE THE PHYTON WHEN ITS SO STUPID.

(BTW, that's what all complaints look like to Guido <wink>)

In a world where different people want different things at different times,
we can't stop complaints -- we can only choose *which* complaints we want to
endure.  Your complaint is easy to endure, because it's easily addressed
*by* you:

def sort(list):
    list.sort()
    return list

Use that instead, if you're not prone to making the aliasing mistakes that
leads to.  Or, if you are, change your little sort function to make a copy
before sorting, and live with the extra memory burden.  It's your choice to
make, and Guido helps lead you to that realization by making the return
value from mutableobject.mutator() maximally useless <0.7 wink>.

most-improvements-aren't-ly y'rs  - tim




From grante at visi.com  Thu Jan 18 13:54:58 2001
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 18:54:58 GMT
Subject: Python training on east coast?
References: <B68C6B99.8E47%bobhicks@adelphia.net> <947bh2$hug$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <6_G96.490$eI2.163803@ruti.visi.com>

In article <947bh2$hug$1 at nnrp1.deja.com>, Mark Hammond wrote:

>> Are there any Python training courses on the east coast?
>
>I believe some can be found in both Sydney and Melbourne.

I saw pythons at a wildlife park just outside Cairns, but I
don't think they were trained.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  My FAVORITE group
                                  at               is "QUESTION MARK & THE
                               visi.com            MYSTERIANS"...


From emile at fenx.com  Fri Jan 19 19:32:47 2001
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 16:32:47 -0800
Subject: Deployment woes (was: I will kill my Python)
References: <mailman.979852022.13720.python-list@python.org> <947r18$rdt$1@news.online.de> <WV0a6.745$eI2.252250@ruti.visi.com> <4DE7F9DB9399A3C1.D96FC6EFB3F2391E.88AD1775E4555FCA@lp.airnews.net> <un1cn12yc.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com>
Message-ID: <94amdf$crs81$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>

And Microsoft, not being one to miss a marketing
opportunity...

http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/techart/dlldanger1.htm

--

Emile van Sebille
emile at fenx.com
-------------------


"David Bolen" <db3l at fitlinxx.com> wrote in message
news:un1cn12yc.fsf at ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com...
> claird at starbase.neosoft.com (Cameron Laird) writes:
>
> > I defer to those with more certain knowledge.  I find
> > Win* habits too esoteric for my comprehension; that's
> > as definite as I can be.
>
> There's a technical term for this process under Windows -
"DLL hell" :-)
>
> --
> -- David
> --
>
/-----------------------------------------------------------
------------\
>  \               David Bolen            \   E-mail:
db3l at fitlinxx.com  /
>   |             FitLinxx, Inc.            \  Phone: (203)
708-5192    |
>  /  860 Canal Street, Stamford, CT  06902   \  Fax: (203)
316-5150     \
>
\-----------------------------------------------------------
------------/




From MarkH at ActiveState.com  Tue Jan  2 19:48:18 2001
From: MarkH at ActiveState.com (Mark Hammond)
Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 00:48:18 GMT
Subject: Memory leak
References: <92t8gp$blv$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <3A5275B8.3020208@ActiveState.com>

alex116321 at my-deja.com wrote:

> I am experiencing memory leakage when using Python and COM.
> Specifically, I am using the Micosoft XML Parser to load and traverse
> XML DOM stuctures.  Everytime I access an XML node, more memory is
> consumed.  After a while, this can eat away most of the system
> resources if the Python session is not terminated.  Here is a simple
> example (assume the interpreter is used as a server and does not exit):

You don't say what version of anything.

With the latest versions, (and using "xrange" instead of range) I see no 
leaks at all - perfectly flat memory usage.

Mark.



From cookedm at physics.mcmaster.ca  Mon Jan 22 10:10:38 2001
From: cookedm at physics.mcmaster.ca (David M. Cooke)
Date: 22 Jan 2001 10:10:38 -0500
Subject: SVG Tools?
References: <mailman.980089104.18988.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <qnkg0ibzkpd.fsf@arbutus.physics.mcmaster.ca>

At some point, msrisney at rocketmail.com wrote:

> I've been messing about with a collection of Perl modules,
> and scripts related to dynamic SVG generation.
> Are there any equivilant  Python efforts out there ?,
> anybody up for a SVG project?
> 
> marc risney 

Biggles also has support for saving to SVG (through the use of the GNU
plotutils):

http://biggles.sourceforge.net

-- 
|>|\/|<
/--------------------------------------------------------------------------\
|David M. Cooke
|cookedm at mcmaster.ca


From NoSpam at NoSpam.com  Fri Jan 19 01:19:18 2001
From: NoSpam at NoSpam.com (Tom)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 06:19:18 GMT
Subject: Python calls Trace Handler fn within call to PyObject_Str
References: <3RM96.183472$59.49047774@news3.rdc1.on.home.com> <94871m$bpo$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <G%Q96.185667$59.49606377@news3.rdc1.on.home.com>

"Mark Hammond" <MarkH at ActiveState.com> wrote in message
news:94871m$bpo$1 at nnrp1.deja.com...
> In article <3RM96.183472$59.49047774 at news3.rdc1.on.home.com>,
>   "Tom" <NoSpam at NoSpam.com> wrote:
> >
> > My C++ module calls the PyObject_Str function, as so:
> >
> >   PyObject* pPyStr = PyObject_Str( m_pPyObject );  // New Ref
> >
> > Stepping through the code in my debugger, I see that beneath
> (or 'within')
> > this call, Python is calling my trace handler function.  The trace
> event is
> > a 'call'.  Is this normal behavior?
>
> If the process of converting the object to a string calls .py code,
> then yes.

I thought it didn't, but looking closer, you're right - that was my problem.

Thanks.

Tom.

> Mark.
>
>
> Sent via Deja.com
> http://www.deja.com/




From MarkH at ActiveState.com  Tue Jan 16 14:55:16 2001
From: MarkH at ActiveState.com (Mark Hammond)
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 19:55:16 GMT
Subject: Building a Python OCX
References: <9423o8$309$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <9428uv$87i$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

In article <9423o8$309$1 at nnrp1.deja.com>,
  John Urberg <jurberg at my-deja.com> wrote:
> Is it possible to build a visual Python OCX control?

Currently not.

> Can I access Python objects thru OLE?
> How complex is it?

It is quite simple to create "standard" COM objects using Python and
access them from any other language.  However, the extra interfaces and
complexity required by a true OCX is currently far from trivial.

Mark.


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From sholden at holdenweb.com  Thu Jan 11 21:13:10 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 21:13:10 -0500
Subject: boolean xor
References: <93ace8$nmo$1@panix3.panix.com> <93i7ne$5dk$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <93i9ff$q4l$1@slb0.atl.mindspring.net> <pI576.21295$ge4.9910815@news2.rdc2.tx.home.com> <93iuj9$jta$1@slb3.atl.mindspring.net> <cLa76.23299$ge4.10502177@news2.rdc2.tx.home.com> <93jls9$v12$1@slb3.atl.mindspring.net> <Tbi76.10504$X3.66627@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com> <93kofr01bg2@news1.newsguy.com> <61t76.2471$6i.33339@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <XOt76.2479$Im.35000@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>

"Steve Holden" <sholden at holdenweb.com> wrote in message
news:61t76.2471$6i.33339 at e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com...
> "Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:93kofr01bg2 at news1.newsguy.com...
> > "Steve Holden" <sholden at holdenweb.com> wrote in message
> > news:Tbi76.10504$X3.66627 at e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com...
> >     [snip]
> > > A possibly salient point which hasn't been explicitly stated in this
> > thread
> > > (but might have been, seventeen days ago, my aging memory and general
> > > decreptitude being what it is) is that the binary logical operators
> > > short-circuit, and return the value of the last operand they
evaluated.
> > Even
> >
[ ... ]
> >>> for A, B in (["", ""], ["", 't'], ['t', ''], ['t', 't']):
> ...  print tf(A), tf(B), tf(xor(A, B))
> ...
> 0 0 1
> 0 1 0
> 1 0 0
> 1 1 1
>
> Yup, that appears to do it. Still, returning that "1" doesn't seem very
> Pythonic. Can;t think of anything else to do, however, since not (either
> argument) will give 1 anyway in that case.
>
Well, I warned you about the decrepitude.  What this returns, of course, is
precisely the logical converse of what it should.  The truth table we
actually want is:

0 0 0
0 1 1
1 0 1
1 1 0

This is good, though, because the implicit None return will give us what we
need in the final case. Here we go, with an added display of the real
values:

>>> def xor(A, B):
...  if not A: return B
...  if not B: return A
...
>>> for A, B in ([[], ()], [[], 't'], ['t', ()], ['t', 't']):
...  print tf(A), tf(B), tf(xor(A, B)), A, B, xor(A, B)
...
0 0 0 [] () ()
0 1 1 [] t t
1 0 1 t () t
1 1 0 t t None

This seems a little more Pythonic, and has the added advantage of producing
a logically correct result. Can we go further?

helps-if-you-don't-assume-martellibot-infallibility-but-it's-a-good-bet-ly
y'rs  - steve




From donn at u.washington.edu  Wed Jan 24 13:03:37 2001
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: 24 Jan 2001 18:03:37 GMT
Subject: Thread interruption
References: <XCtb6.9449$CP4.2365402@typhoon2.ba-dsg.net>
Message-ID: <94n5dp$op6$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>

Quoth "David Allen" <s2mdalle at titan.vcu.edu>:
...
| My question is, how do I interrupt threads?  In each
| thread, there will be blocking system calls happening,
| and I need to be able to interrupt the threads very
| quickly.  This is not something where select() is
| the answer, because I'm worried about blocking
| from gethostbyname() and other socket related stuff
| too.

See last week's subject "threading: how to kill a (possibly blocked) thread?"

In summary, you can't.  Not in Python's thread support, and not
portably in any language.

Processes are a lot better than threads for some of this kind of
thing.  On one hand they are susceptible to the kind of control
you want to exert, and on the other hand they exit in a cleaner
and more reliable way when you do it.  For example, any file
descriptor opened by the subprocess will close, and resources
like network mbufs will get reclaimed.  It is not a drop-in
solution, but if you can do the work it can be more robust.

| On a completely unrelated note, I thought python
| threading was done within one process, and that
| the threading code had to deal with "timeslicing"
| between all the threads that actually belonged to
| one process.  But checking the output of 'ps' on
| running a threaded python program, actually 4-5
| instances of the interpreter seem to be running when
| I'm using threads.  What gives?

Could be a platform quirk.  Python doesn't implement its
own threads, and while your idea of how it would work sure
matches mine, I guess it's possible that "ps" could show
threads separately.  I know they do show up in the BeOS
ps, but specifically as threads that are executing within
the single Python process ("team").

	Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu


From grante at visi.com  Fri Jan 19 16:51:55 2001
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 21:51:55 GMT
Subject: Why no isexec, isread, iswrite, etc (was: I must be missing something obvious: os.path.isexecutable?)
References: <slrn96enju.g1v.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <slrn96ep7c.g1v.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <slrn96erlf.h11.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <eU0a6.744$eI2.252354@ruti.visi.com> <slrn96hcek.mqj.grey@teleute.dmiyu.org>
Message-ID: <%F2a6.926$eI2.260005@ruti.visi.com>

In article <slrn96hcek.mqj.grey at teleute.dmiyu.org>, Steve Lamb wrote:

>>[Same answer if you're going to try to write or exec a file.]
>
>    It is?  

I didn't say it was a _good_ answer.  ;)

>  What if you want to check to ensure something is executable before
>actually symlinking as a sanity check?

That's the problem with the "standard answer": there are times
that you want to check to see if something is XXXX-able without
actually doing XXXX because doing XXXX might have some nasty
side-effects. You just want to do the best you can to insure
that at the appropriate time (at which point there might not be
anybody around to see the error message), doing XXXX will work.

Your example is a good one: you want to check that a script is
executable so that you can change/modify configuration info,
but actually exec'ing the script would be a bad thing.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  I am a traffic light,
                                  at               and Alan Ginzberg kidnapped
                               visi.com            my laundry in 1927!


From kragen at dnaco.net  Sun Jan  7 21:31:55 2001
From: kragen at dnaco.net (Kragen Sitaker)
Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2001 02:31:55 GMT
Subject: simple symbolic math in Python
Message-ID: <vE966.12210$K72.50241@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>

I posted most of this to kragen-hacks
<kragen-hacks-subscribe at kragen.dnaco.net> late last millennium.

I'm running into a problem: I can overload unary minus, but I can't
overload e.g. math.sin and math.cos, because they're not methods.  It
would be really nice to have a way to do that.  I can create objects
that act just like dictionaries or files, including working with almost
all of the built-in functions, but it doesn't look like I can create
objects that look just like numbers.

I'm thinking about implementing promises (aka deferred references) as
in E <http://www.erights.org/> as well; I'm still reading the E
documentation.

I hope folks enjoy this.

# Kragen Sitaker, 2000-12-30.
# Some simple symbolic math.
# Allows you to add, subtract, etc., simple formulas -- using the ordinary
# Python operations.  Implements all of the standard arithmetic operations.
# Once you have a formula, you can print it out as a string, evaluate it
# for particular values of its variables, call 'simplified()' to get a
# simplified version, check to see if it's exactly identical to some other
# formula, or (in some cases --- if you've used only +, -, and *, and
# fixed exponents) take its symbolic derivative.  See the test()
# routine at the end for details. Symbolic derivatives will generally
# need to be simplified() to taste very good.

# Not intended for serious use; it's just a quick hack I wrote this afternoon.

# Some things it might be fun to add:
# - a compile() method that returns a Python code object that would give you
#   faster evaluation
# - a continued-fraction output mode a la HAKMEM
# - symbolic derivatives that cover more operations
# - better simplifications ( ((x + x) + (2 * x)) should simplify to (3 * x) )
# - unary operations: negation, transcendentals
# - better printing: a + b + c + d should print as a + b + c + d, not
#   as (((a + b) + c) + d)
# - other symbolic manipulations

import math

# things inherit from Formula to get the glue that turns Python
# expressions into representations of expressions
class Formula:
    def __complex__(self): return complex(self.eval({}))
    def __int__(self): return int(self.eval({}))
    def __long__(self): return long(self.eval({}))
    def __float__(self): return float(self.eval({}))
    def __pos__(self): return self  # positive
    def __neg__(self): return Unop('-', self)
    def __add__(self, other): return Binop('+', self, other)
    def __radd__(self, other): return Binop('+', other, self)
    def __sub__(self, other): return Binop('-', self, other)
    def __rsub__(self, other): return Binop('-', other, self)
    def __mul__(self, other): return Binop('*', self, other)
    def __rmul__(self, other): return Binop('*', other, self)
    def __div__(self, other): return Binop('/', self, other)
    def __rdiv__(self, other): return Binop('/', other, self)
    def __pow__(self, other): return Binop('**', self, other)
    def __rpow__(self, other): return Binop('**', other, self)

    # one out of place: syntactic sugar for 'eval'
    # this lets me say f.where(x = 2) instead of f.eval({'x':2})
    def where(self, **vars): return self.eval(vars)

def constant(expr):
    return isinstance(expr, Constant)

# simplify an addition expression by dropping zeroes
def simplify_add(a, b):
    if a.identical(mkf(0)): return b
    elif b.identical(mkf(0)): return a
    # and this is the point at which we abandon pretenses of OO correctness
    elif isinstance(b, Unop) and b._op == '-':
        return (a - b._arg).simplified()
    else: return a + b

# simplify a multiplication expression by dropping ones and converting
# 0 * anything to 0
def simplify_multiply(a, b):
    if a.identical(mkf(0)) or b.identical(mkf(0)): return mkf(0)
    elif a.identical(mkf(1)): return b
    elif b.identical(mkf(1)): return a
    elif a.identical(mkf(-1)): return (-b).simplified()
    elif b.identical(mkf(-1)): return (-a).simplified()
    else: return a * b

def simplify_subtract(a, b):
    if b.identical(mkf(0)): return a
    elif isinstance(b, Unop) and b._op == '-':
        return (a + b._arg).simplified()
    else: return a - b

def simplify_power(a, b):
    if b.identical(mkf(0)): return mkf(1)
    elif b.identical(mkf(1)): return a
    else: return a ** b

DerivativeError = "Can't differentiate"

def power_derivative(base, exp, var):
    if not exp.derivative(var).simplified().identical(mkf(0)):
        raise DerivativeError, ("too dumb for varying exponent", exp, var)
    return exp * base ** (exp - 1) * base.derivative(var)

# Binary operation class
class Binop(Formula):
    opmap = { '+': lambda a, b: a + b,
              '*': lambda a, b: a * b,
              '-': lambda a, b: a - b,
              '/': lambda a, b: a / b,
              '**': lambda a, b: a ** b }
    def __init__(self, op, value1, value2):
        self.op = op
        self.values = mkf(value1), mkf(value2)
    def __str__(self):
        return "(%s %s %s)" % (self.values[0], self.op, self.values[1])
    def eval(self, env):
        return self.opmap[self.op](self.values[0].eval(env),
                                   self.values[1].eval(env))
    # the partial derivative with respect to some variable 'var'
    derivmap = { '+': lambda a, b, var: a.derivative(var) + b.derivative(var),
                 '-': lambda a, b, var: a.derivative(var) - b.derivative(var),
                 '*': lambda a, b, var: (a * b.derivative(var) +
                                         b * a.derivative(var)),
                 '**': power_derivative };
    def derivative(self, var):
        return self.derivmap[self.op](self.values[0], self.values[1], var)

    # very basic simplifications
    simplifymap = { '+': simplify_add,
                    '*': simplify_multiply,
                    '-': simplify_subtract,
                    '**': simplify_power};
    def simplified(self):
        values = self.values[0].simplified(), self.values[1].simplified()
        if constant(values[0]) and constant(values[1]):
            # this is kinda gross
            return mkf(Binop(self.op, values[0], values[1]).eval({}))
        elif self.simplifymap.has_key(self.op):
            return self.simplifymap[self.op](values[0], values[1])
        else:
            return Binop(self.op, values[0], values[1])

    def identical(self, other):
        return (isinstance(other, Binop) and other.op == self.op and
                other.values[0].identical(self.values[0]) and
                other.values[1].identical(self.values[1]))

class Unop(Formula):
    opmap = { '-': lambda x: -x,
              'sin': lambda x: math.sin(x),
              'cos': lambda x: math.cos(x) }
    def __init__(self, op, arg):
        self._op = op
        self._arg = mkf(arg)
    def __str__(self):
        return "%s(%s)" % (self._op, self._arg)
    def eval(self, env):
        return self.opmap[self._op](self._arg.eval(env))
    # note that each of these entries implicitly contains the chain rule;
    # that's bad and should be fixed.
    derivmap = { '-': lambda x, var: -x.derivative(var),
                 'sin': lambda x, var: x.derivative(var) * cos(x),
                 'cos': lambda x, var: -x.derivative(var) * sin(x) }
    def derivative(self, var):
        return self.derivmap[self._op](self._arg, var)
    def identical(self, other):
        return isinstance(other, Unop) and self._arg.identical(other._arg)
    def simplified(self):
        simplearg = self._arg.simplified()
        if constant(simplearg):
            return mkf(Unop(self._op, simplearg).eval({}))
        if (self._op == '-' and isinstance(simplearg, Unop) and
            simplearg._op == '-'):
            return simplearg._arg.simplified()
        else: return Unop(self._op, simplearg)

def cos(f): return Unop('cos', f)
def sin(f): return Unop('sin', f)

class Variable(Formula):
    def __init__(self, name): self._name = name
    def eval(self, environment): return environment[self._name]
    def __str__(self): return self._name
    def derivative(self, var):
        if self._name == var._name: return mkf(1)
        else: return mkf(0)
    def identical(self, other):
        return isinstance(other, Variable) and other._name == self._name
    def simplified(self): return self
class Constant(Formula):
    def __init__(self, value): self._value = value
    def eval(self, env): return self._value
    def __str__(self): return str(self._value)
    def derivative(self, var): return mkf(0)
    def identical(self, other):
        return isinstance(other, Constant) and other._value == self._value
    def simplified(self): return self

# make formula
def mkf(value):
    if type(value) in (type(1), type(1L), type(1.5), type(1j)):
        return Constant(value)
    elif type(value) is type("hi"):
        return Variable(value)
    elif isinstance(value, Formula):
        return value
    else:
        raise TypeError, ("Can't make formula from", value)

# syntactic sugar so you can say vars.foo instead of mkf('foo') or
# Variable('foo')
class Vars:
    def __getattr__(self, name): return Variable(name)
vars = Vars()

def test():
    assert mkf(2365).eval({}) == 2365
    one = mkf(1)
    assert str(one) == '1'
    assert one.eval({}) == 1
    assert isinstance(one + one, Formula)
    assert (one + one).eval({}) == 2
    assert str(one + one) == '(1 + 1)'
    x = vars.x
    assert isinstance(x, Variable)
    assert x.eval({'x': 37}) == 37
    assert (one + x).eval({'x': 108}) == 109
    assert str(one + x) == '(1 + x)'
    got_error = 0
    try:
        x.eval({})
    except KeyError:
        got_error = 1
    assert got_error
    assert (1 + one).eval({}) == 2
    assert (2 * mkf(3)).eval({}) == 6
    assert (mkf(2) * 3).eval({}) == 6
    assert (14 - one).eval({}) == 13
    assert (one - 14).eval({}) == -13
    assert int(one) == 1
    seven = (14 / mkf(2))
    assert isinstance(seven, Formula)
    assert seven.eval({}) == 7
    assert float(seven) == 7.0
    assert int(+one) == 1
    got_error = 0
    try:
        z = mkf(test)
    except TypeError:
        got_error = 1
    assert got_error
    two_to_the_x = (2 ** x)
    assert str(two_to_the_x) == '(2 ** x)'
    assert two_to_the_x.eval({'x': 20}) == 1048576
    assert two_to_the_x.where(x=20) == 1048576
    assert (x ** 2).eval({'x': 13}) == 169
    formula = (x + 1)/((x * x) - +two_to_the_x)
    assert str(formula) == '((x + 1) / ((x * x) - (2 ** x)))', str(formula)
    assert (x / 1).eval({'x': 36}) == 36
    assert long(one) == 1L
    assert complex(one) == 1+0j
    i = mkf(1j)
    assert complex(i) == 1j

    y = vars.y
    minusx = -x
    assert minusx.where(x = 5) == -5
    assert (-minusx).simplified().identical(x)
    assert str(minusx) == '-(x)'
    assert not minusx.identical(x)
    assert minusx.identical(-x)
    assert not minusx.identical(-y)

    cosx = cos(x)
    assert cosx.where(x = 0) == 1
    assert cosx.where(x = 1) != 1

    assert x.derivative(x).simplified().identical(mkf(1))
    assert x.derivative(y).simplified().identical(mkf(0))
    assert (x * y).derivative(x).simplified().identical(y)
    assert (x + y).derivative(x).simplified().identical(mkf(1))
    assert (x - y).derivative(x).simplified().identical(mkf(1))
    assert two_to_the_x.simplified().identical(two_to_the_x)
    assert (2 * x).derivative(x).simplified().identical(mkf(2))

    assert (x ** 0).simplified().identical(mkf(1))
    assert (x ** 1).simplified().identical(x)
    assert (x ** 2).derivative(x).simplified().identical(2 * x)
    assert minusx.derivative(x).simplified().eval({}) == -1
    assert cosx.derivative(x).where(x = 0) == 0
    assert (-1 * x).simplified().identical(-x)
    assert (x * -1).simplified().identical(-x)
    assert (mkf(2) * 3 * 4).simplified().identical(mkf(24))
    assert (-mkf(1)).simplified().identical(mkf(-1))
    assert (-(1 * cos(x))).simplified().identical(-cos(x))
    sinx = sin(x)
    assert (-(-(mkf(1)) * sinx)).simplified().identical(sinx)
    one = mkf(1)
    assert (-one * (one * (-one * x))).simplified().identical(x)
    assert (1 - -x).simplified().identical(1 + x)
    assert (1 - - - -x).simplified().identical(1 + x)
    
test()
-- 
<kragen at pobox.com>       Kragen Sitaker     <http://www.pobox.com/~kragen/>
Perilous to all of us are the devices of an art deeper than we possess
ourselves.
       -- Gandalf the White [J.R.R. Tolkien, "The Two Towers", Bk 3, Ch. XI]


From grey at despair.rpglink.com  Wed Jan  3 17:10:36 2001
From: grey at despair.rpglink.com (Steve Lamb)
Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 22:10:36 -0000
Subject: variable inirialization and loop forms (was Re: why no "do : until"?)
References: <92jj3j$ff7$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <3A4D6A05.EEC97FA6@uswest.net> <slrn94qqvg.mgg.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <ije36.96813$x6.43604873@news2.rdc2.tx.home.com> <slrn94qt4f.mgg.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <CMo36.97857$x6.44474719@news2.rdc2.tx.home.com> <slrn94s9qg.134.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <gdq36.2696$Qb7.302774@newsb.telia.net> <slrn94shbe.150.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <92v6m002nlr@news2.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <slrn9578qr.3mc.grey@teleute.rpglink.com>

On Wed, 3 Jan 2001 13:40:38 +0100, Alex Martelli <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote:
>Initializing variables *to correct values* is a great thing -- but using
>*arbitrary* values for the initialization isn't optimal style.

    You know, Alex, that is why I enjoy reading your responses do me.  You
never come off like you're preaching, only teaching.  

    I still stand that initting a variable is just that, setting it to a
known, arbitrary value.

>This matters!  For example, the getCurrentTemperature function *might*
>smooth actual point-measurements (which 'wobble') by averaging with
>the previously-measured value; 

    Then don't do it that way.  Given other considerations, yes, other forms
are optimal.  But to unilaterally state that it is bad to do something under
all conditions gets people in more trouble than it gets them out of.

>*IF AND WHEN* there are NO costs in testing in the while
>statement, sure.  

    Then why not take the other extreme; remove the test in the loop.  Remove
for, remove while, remove any other's I've missed.  

loop: 
  do something
  if break condition:
    break

    There, no argument over while 1:, for (;;;), do/while, while/do, while
true, endless, zippity-do-da, snaglefarf, poo or any other such key word.  A
loop is a loop is a loop and arguing semantics of that loop and its
construction is utterly meaningless since the logical conclusion is simple,
enter a loop, break out of it when needed, no test condition in the loop
itself.

1: while

loop:
  if foo:
    break
  do something

2: for

loop:
   if blah = x
     break
   do something
   blah += step

3: for x in y, foreach x (y)

loop:
   blah = list.pop(0)
   if not blah:
     break
   do something

4: do while/until

loop:
   do something
   if foo:
     break


>But often there ARE some costs: when a loop WANTS to be an "N-and-a-half
>times loop", the general form, then coding it as such (which in Python is
>expressed by while 1/...break) produces simpler and therefore better code
>than making believe the idiom isn't available.  

    I'm not saying it isn't available, I'm pointing out that for those who
didn't like it there was something else that could be done.  But hey, as I
stated above, why not just get rid of all the different loop keywords and just
do it the want that provides the lest amount of variance if maintainability is
the only consideration one has?

    If there is often a cost in a loop wanting to be something that it is not
then why try to confine people to 3-4 cutesy keywords and let them just build
each loop as needed by providing one keyword to loop over code.  Seems far
simpler for maintainability in the long run if often we're not using the
keywords.

    Hell, we could even take that further.  If found that we have else on
while and for to be useful.  So why not have break also allow an optional
return value?  But wait, why have else on a loop at all?  Why not just remove
else on loop and allow the optional return value (else on a loop being really
an if) through an exception and a try: block?  Seems to be that is more
versitile than an else keyword attached to a loop which only takes one
condition, doesn't it?

    So with that we've gotten rid of for/else, while/else and also given
people a method of making whatever loop, loop and a half, loop and half twist
with a triple gainer in the middle that they want.

    I mean, if the semantics of it all is more important than actually getting
work done, right?  :)

    Oh, and to stave off those that do dislike while 1: and similar
constructs...  Don't kid yourself, having a test condition in te while is no
more or less reliable than having the test condition elsewhere in the loop
unless it is something independant where you're going to place an arbitrary
limit on the iterations over the loop and actually keep track.  A while foo:
loop that never modifies foo is just as endless as while 1: and both can be
aborted with an if:break.  So a "loop: if:break" construct is functionally
identical to a while condition: consutruct and no amount of semantical arguing
will change that.

    We done now?

-- 
         Steve C. Lamb         | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your
         ICQ: 5107343          | main connection to the switchboard of souls.
-------------------------------+---------------------------------------------


From gbell at uclink.berkeley.edu  Wed Jan 24 19:12:28 2001
From: gbell at uclink.berkeley.edu (gbell at uclink.berkeley.edu)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 00:12:28 GMT
Subject: newbie question: table-like data
Message-ID: <94nr15$5rk$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

I'm new to Python (and to programming) -- working my way through
_Learning Python_ at the moment.

As an exercise, I want to write a program that will help me keep track
of recipes I like (including ingredients), plan menus over an arbitrary
period, and print the appropriate shopping list.

Question: is there a customary way to create, manipulate &
query database tables in Python? Is there a module that does this?

Thanks for your patience.

Gregory Bell
gbell at uclink.berkeley.edu





Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From othello at javanet.com  Wed Jan 17 23:56:20 2001
From: othello at javanet.com (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 23:56:20 -0500
Subject: how to run a DOS program without getting a box?
References: <3A64E195.ECA51312@cableinet.co.uk> <Kwb96.3026$3N1.69942@news2-win.server.ntlworld.com> <mailman.979737259.2909.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3A667773.C00AC40B@javanet.com>

Dan Rolander wrote:

> If you are starting a Windows application, first get the Win32 extensions at
> http://www.activestate.com/Products/ActivePython/win32all.html. Then import
> win32api and use WinExec() like this:
>
> >>> import win32api
> >>> win32api.WinExec("notepad")

How do you call built-in DOS commands or pass arguments?
win32api.WinExec("time 23:30") doesn't do the trick :(


> If you want to launch a DOS application, and don't want a console window but
> you do want to capture stdout, you can just import os and use popen() like
> this:
>
> >>> import os
> >>> test = os.popen("c:\\test.bat")

Interesting that this works from the command prompt but fails inside the
PythonWin
environment.  The error message is:
    WindowsError: [Errno 2] The system cannot find the file specified





From victor at prodigy.net  Thu Jan  4 14:55:43 2001
From: victor at prodigy.net (Victor Muslin)
Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 19:55:43 GMT
Subject: Iterating over multiple lists (a newbie question)
References: <3a539f3a.445366109@localhost>
Message-ID: <3a54d0c5.523585234@localhost>

Thank you all for the insights. Here is another variation on the them,
though this involves a single list.

Suppose I want to parse command line arguments (never mind getops,
since this could be some other situation not involving command line
arguments). Here is how I could possibly parse command line arguments
for command: "myprog -port 10 -debug":

	import sys
	debug = port = 0
	i = 1                                      # ugly
	while i < len(sys.argv):
	    if sys.argv[i] == '-debug':
	        debug=1
	    elif sys.argv[i] == '-port':
	        i = i + 1                          # ugly!
	        if i < len(sys.argv):           # very ugly!
	            port = int(sys.argv[i])
	    i = i + 1                              # quite ugly

Pretty ugly, huh? Is there a more elegant way?

On Wed, 03 Jan 2001 21:59:37 GMT, victor at prodigy.net (Victor Muslin)
wrote:

>This may be rather silly, but I can't think of a clever way...
>
>To traverse a single list the code is:
>
>	for item in list:
>		print item
>
>However, if there are multiple lists (of the same length) is there a
>cleverer way to do the following:
>
>	for i in range(0,len(list1)):
>		print list1[i], list2[i]
>
>I would like something like this (which obviously does not work):
>
>	for one,two in list1, list2:
>		print one,two
>
>TIA



From cerutti at together.net  Thu Jan 25 15:10:40 2001
From: cerutti at together.net (Neil Cerutti)
Date: 25 Jan 2001 20:10:40 GMT
Subject: Tkinter vs wxPython: your opinions?
References: <3A6F899F.E164F628@home.com> <hvZb6.2156$_8.33280@news1.rdc1.bc.home.com> <slrn9710o1.73.cerutti@fiad06.norwich.edu> <iF%b6.9208$Qb7.1327643@newsb.telia.net>
Message-ID: <slrn9712f3.1f.cerutti@fiad06.norwich.edu>

Fredrik Lundh posted:
>Neil Cerutti wrote:
>> My advice, although I've got limited experience, is to go with
>> Tkinter, and read the following great document, by Python Labs'
>> Fredrik Lundh:
>
>footnot: I work for Secret Labs, also known as PythonWare.
>
>(for some reason, someone thought it would be a good idea to
>create a new company name from two of our trademarks...)
>
>Cheers /F

Sorry. I'm still proud that I spelled your name correctly.

-- 
Neil Cerutti <cerutti at together.net>


From rturpin at my-deja.com  Mon Jan 15 15:48:02 2001
From: rturpin at my-deja.com (rturpin at my-deja.com)
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 20:48:02 GMT
Subject: Web devel with python: Best route? XML to HTML translation!
References: <93cqvi0191h@news1.newsguy.com> <mailman.978910629.6814.python-list@python.org> <mailman.978975978.19612.python-list@python.org> <spenrose-E755EB.22423209012001@news.dnai.com> <93hfp1013sm@news2.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <93vnlv$2qq$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

In article <93hfp1013sm at news2.newsguy.com>,
  "Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote:
> All the presentation logic goes into the template, all of
> the computation into the Python CGI script, and my little
> yaptu.py (yet another python template utility, of course)
> bridges the gap ..

That's pretty good. It seems to me there is a better way.
(1) The server scripts in Python generate XML. This is
pretty easy to do with xmlpickle. (2) Use an XML to HTML
filter to generate the HTML. Let the repitition of
values in XML guide the repitition of the relevant
sections of HTML. The advantage to this is that the
same server side scripts can be used to generate XML
(for downstream processing by another script) or HTML
(for presentation in browsers).

Does anyone know of any good XML to HTML filters for
this purpose?

Russell



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http://www.deja.com/


From sholden at holdenweb.com  Thu Jan  4 10:58:55 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 10:58:55 -0500
Subject: isnumeric (mhlib.py)
References: <3A548B2A.B45DC580@cs.utwente.nl>
Message-ID: <D6156.14$XZ5.9704@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com>

Richard van de Stadt <stadt at cs.utwente.nl> wrote in message
news:3A548B2A.B45DC580 at cs.utwente.nl...
> Hi,
>
> I needed a function to check if a string is a number.
> mhlib contains a function called isnumeric(), so I
> used that one. This is how it determines if a string
> is a number:
>
> numericprog = re.compile('^[1-9][0-9]*$')
> def isnumeric(str):
>     return numericprog.match(str) is not None
>
> However, this way, '0' is not regarded as a number.
> Is that what isnumeric is supposed to do?
>
Well, I suppose the obvious answer is that what you see is good enough for
mhlib's purposes, so at worst you might complain that the function isn't
very well named.  Of course the code doesn't document its purpose well, so
you fell in the hole.

> I don't know what the meaning of isnumeric for mh is,
> but why isn't numericprog simply like this:
>
> numericprog = re.compile('^[0-9]*$')
>
> Richard.
>
Again, if that will do for your purposes then go ahead and use it --
although I suspect you might not want the empty string to be considered a
number, in which case you might prefer the pattern to be

    '^[0-9]+$'

which will insist on seeing at least one digit.

I seem to remember there was a long discussion on validating numerics some
time ago on this list.  A lot depends on how rigorous you want to be,
whether you are interested in integers, long integers, reals or complexes,
etc.  If this is a test which is performed infrequently (such as, for
example, when analyzing lines of interactive input) probably the best
approach is to ask Python to convert using an explicit conversion function
such as int() or float(), trapping errors and handling them appropriately.

Apart form anything else, this allows you

a) to be sure the number is acceptable to Python in the appropriate context,
since value checking will also be performed, and

b) to avoid the import of a module you may not otherwise need.

regards
 Steve






From jkraska1 at san.rr.com  Mon Jan 15 03:39:23 2001
From: jkraska1 at san.rr.com (Courageous)
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 08:39:23 GMT
Subject: is Python fully object oriented ?
References: <mailman.979370835.7508.python-list@python.org> <slrn964oq0.lg.amk@207-172-36-115.s115.tnt6.ann.va.dialup.rcn.com>
Message-ID: <g1e56tc8ach36rk3de7o3dj68plin20sii@4ax.com>

>	C++ is too complicated.  At the moment, it's impossible for me
>	to write portable code that I believe would work on lots of different
>	systems, unless I avoid all exotic features.  Whenever the C++
>	language designers had two competing ideas as to how
>	they should solve some problem, they said "OK, we'll do them both".
>	So the language is too baroque for my taste.
>
>I formed the impression that he prefers to use WEB or CWEB for
>programming.  Since he also uses Emacs for editing, he presumably can
>also handle the odd bit of Lisp.

Lisp is veritably overflowing with "OK, we'll do them both" features,
however. Look at flow-control primitives, for example.

C//




From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Thu Jan  4 16:48:37 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 22:48:37 +0100
Subject: Alex Martinelli's solution to regular expression/findall problem
References: <mailman.978630484.1210.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <932rdu010lb@news1.newsguy.com>

"Heather Lynn White" <hwhite at chiliad.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.978630484.1210.python-list at python.org...
>
> Your searchall function is just what I needed and it will sit happily in
> my library.  Thanks alot.

You're welcome, but my surname happens to be spelled "Martelli"...:-).


Alex





From rbeer at uni-goettingen.de  Wed Jan 17 08:46:31 2001
From: rbeer at uni-goettingen.de (Ragnar Beer)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 14:46:31 +0100
Subject: XREF tool?
Message-ID: <3A65A235.468D582E@uni-goettingen.de>

Howdy!

Does anybody know if there's a cross reference tool available for Python?

Ragnar


From NOstarfighterSPAM at freeuk.com  Fri Jan 26 17:29:36 2001
From: NOstarfighterSPAM at freeuk.com (Richard Townsend)
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 22:29:36 -0000
Subject: Python2.0 and Pmw 0.8.4 counter problem
References: <3A71D728.EE4B9F03@icestormfx.com>
Message-ID: <PVmc6.8815$W94.473070@nnrp4.clara.net>

>     We used Python1.5 with Pmw 0.8.3 to develop an in-house application.
For some
> reasons, we changed to Python2.0 and we decided to use the new Pmw version
(
> 0.8.4 ).  In our application, we have a Pmw.Counter of integers and it
doesn't work
> anymore.  The behaviour is strange :  if we type a new integer in the
entry field,
> everything is fine.  But using the arrows ( left or right, up or down )
just clean
> the entry field, without updating its content.  I try the demos in the Pmw
> distributions and they don't work either.  We installed Python1.6 with Pmw
0.8.3, and
> it still doesn't work !!!  I tried all the other types of counters and
they all work
> fine, but the integer.
>
>     Anybody has a suggestion ?
>

I posted the same question a few months ago and got the following solution
from Roberto Amorim

> Hi, to correct it is simple. You'll have to edit PmwCounter.py. Here it
> is:
>
> - Find the function called _changeNumber() (line 273)
> - On line 279 there's the return statement for this function. Change it
> to return str(value) (and not return str(value)[:-1])
>
> That ocurred because str(long) on Python 2.0 doesn't return a number
> with L on the end like Python 1.5.2 did.
>

regards,
Richard Townsend





From gregj at pobox.com  Tue Jan 23 23:34:09 2001
From: gregj at pobox.com (Greg Jorgensen)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 04:34:09 GMT
Subject: Count and replacing strings a texfile
References: <94i9ft$apq$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <mailman.980226386.12769.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <94lm01$8mv$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

In article <mailman.980226386.12769.python-list at python.org>,
  Moshe Zadka <moshez at zadka.site.co.il> wrote:
> On Mon, 22 Jan 2001 21:42:21 GMT, puckoh at my-deja.com wrote:
>
> counter = 0
> def replace(_):
> 	global counter
> 	counter += 1
> 	return counter
>
> id_re = re.compile('%id%')
>
> s = open(file).read()
> s = id_re.replace(s, replace)

I think you mean re.sub(replace, s)... replace() is a similar method
for string objects, but it doesn't accept a function for the
replacement string.

--
Greg Jorgensen
Portland, Oregon, USA
gregj at pobox.com


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From xyzmats at laplaza.org  Thu Jan 18 10:59:02 2001
From: xyzmats at laplaza.org (Mats Wichmann)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 15:59:02 GMT
Subject: Python training on east coast?
References: <B68C6B99.8E47%bobhicks@adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <3a6711b0.2563646@news.laplaza.org>

On Thu, 18 Jan 2001 14:45:43 GMT, Robert L Hicks
<bobhicks at adelphia.net> wrote:

>Are there any Python training courses on the east coast?


See http://www.learningtree.com/us/ilt/courses/430.htm

Classes are regularly scheduled in Washington D.C., New York and
Boston.
Mats Wichmann

(Anti-spam stuff: to reply remove the "xyz" from the
address xyzmats at laplaza.org. Not that it helps much...)


From amk at mira.erols.com  Tue Jan 16 20:39:13 2001
From: amk at mira.erols.com (A.M. Kuchling)
Date: 17 Jan 2001 01:39:13 GMT
Subject: Web devel with python: Best route? XML to HTML translation!
References: <93cqvi0191h@news1.newsguy.com> <mailman.978910629.6814.python-list@python.org> <mailman.978975978.19612.python-list@python.org> <spenrose-E755EB.22423209012001@news.dnai.com> <93hfp1013sm@news2.newsguy.com> <93vnlv$2qq$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <3A6412BC.A07C547@stroeder.com>
Message-ID: <slrn969unv.gd.amk@207-172-112-159.s159.tnt4.ann.va.dialup.rcn.com>

On Tue, 16 Jan 2001 10:22:04 +0100, 
	Michael Str?der <michael at stroeder.com> wrote:
>In theory this is a good way. But how about the performance? Last
>time I played with a Python-written XSLT processor it was pretty
>slow.

If you're referring to 4XSLT, note that its authors devoted a fair bit
of effort to optimizing recent versions started with 0.9.2, improving
performance by a factor of 10 to 100.  See
http://lists.fourthought.com/pipermail/4suite/2000-July/000221.html

--amk


From luthi at vaw.baug.ethz.ch  Thu Jan 18 11:23:07 2001
From: luthi at vaw.baug.ethz.ch (luthi at vaw.baug.ethz.ch)
Date: 18 Jan 2001 17:23:07 +0100
Subject: emacs / autocompletion
References: <mailman.979830442.31419.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <yfm8zo8yglw.fsf@collet.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-shoot-me>

This will give you some autocompletion, not only of Python variables, but of
anythin in any of your buffers (type the key several times in order to cycle
throug all possibilites). 

(global-set-key [f3]       'dabbrev-expand)

(put this in your .emacs file, choose another key than f3 if you like)

this-time-elisp-ingly-instead-of-python-ingly-yours

Martin L?thi


From moshez at zadka.site.co.il  Sat Jan  6 05:39:38 2001
From: moshez at zadka.site.co.il (Moshe Zadka)
Date: Sat,  6 Jan 2001 12:39:38 +0200 (IST)
Subject: How robust is Python ?
In-Reply-To: <9358nn$3c5$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
References: <9358nn$3c5$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, <9354f9$vbi$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, <LOBBJMHOIFOLFIPFANHJAEJFCHAA.zope@TheWebsons.com> <mailman.978716227.31692.python-list@python.org> <mailman.978721929.3640.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <20010106103938.8FCAFA84F@darjeeling.zadka.site.co.il>

On Fri, 05 Jan 2001, rturpin at my-deja.com wrote:

> Unfortunately, cron is not cross-platform. We'll have
> some sort of mechanism to do this. The problem is not
> just the language and operating system, but everything
> that can kill a process. Still .. you want such mechanism
> as backup, not as a solution to regular crashes.

Of course. None of this is meant to imply Python crashes regularily.
In fact, I can't think off-hand of a language less likely to suffer
crashes, given that you take a few exception-catching precautions
in the main loop (have a catch-all except: which re-execs the process).
Perl will probably have so many "it might be undefined here" problems
that I certainly wouldn't trust it, Java's implementations are usually
buggy and C/C++ core dump at the drop of a pointer. Maybe Tcl can
be an alternative as far as reliability is concerned -- though I think
data-structures in Tcl are more prone to memory leakages then Python,
based on some experience (2-3 months writing Tcl extensions proffessionally).
Quite possibly, good Scheme implementations (say, scheme48) can outdo
Python here. Maybe good Common Lisp (cmucl, or the commercial ones) can
do better too. But I think a Python + auto-restart will be good enough
for anything short of a life-support system, and the pragmatics of Python
win big here.

-- 
Moshe Zadka <sig at zadka.site.co.il>
This is a signature anti-virus. 
Please stop the spread of signature viruses!



From bwaskiew at indiana.edu  Sun Jan 14 00:31:28 2001
From: bwaskiew at indiana.edu (Brian Waskiewicz)
Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 00:31:28 -0500
Subject: storing passwords
Message-ID: <93rdmr$ihu$1@flotsam.uits.indiana.edu>

I have a Python script that makes a Telnet connectio to a remote server and
right now I have the password just stored within my code.  I'd don't like
the idea of leaving the password available like that (the script runs
automatically every night, so I can't prompt the user for it), so is there
any other way to store the password in some kind of encrypted fashion??

Also, is it possible to implement an FTP server in Python (has this already
been done)?

Brian Waskiewicz
bwaskiew at indiana.edu
____________________________





From ullrich at math.okstate.edu  Sun Jan 21 09:21:57 2001
From: ullrich at math.okstate.edu (David C. Ullrich)
Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 14:21:57 GMT
Subject: pyXML support for XSL tranformations??
References: <rtga6.18098$bb.708443@news1.rdc1.tx.home.com> <94d1tj$6sa$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <3a6aef10.3738521@nntp.sprynet.com>

On Sat, 20 Jan 2001 22:02:31 GMT, Chris Ryland <cpr at emsoftware.com>
wrote:

[...]
>
>The Fourthought people (www.fourthought.com) also have an open-source
>XSLT processor written in Python.

I was gonna say that but I wasn't sure they'd got something that would
work with the latest version of Python.

I have the 4Thought XSL stuff from a little while ago. When I 
installed it I had to replace the current (1.5.2) Python xml.dom
with one that came with 4Thought, which I gather was an
older version. I didn't like this but I did it and it works fine.

Q: Does the current 4Thought XSL stuff get along a little
more _cleanly_ with Python? (I actually haven't got around
to getting Python 2.0 precisely because it took a little
tweaking to get the XSL going in 1.5.2...)

>--
>Chris Ryland * Em Software, Inc. * www.emsoftware.com
>
>
>Sent via Deja.com
>http://www.deja.com/



From mail at codex.pe.kr  Fri Jan  5 18:54:28 2001
From: mail at codex.pe.kr (Ahn, Jae-wook)
Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2001 08:54:28 +0900
Subject: RGB to HSV conversion using PIL?
Message-ID: <935mu3$4qg$1@news1.kornet.net>

Hi.

Using PIL, how can I convert RGB color space to HSV? According to manual,
RGB can be converted to LAB using matrix calculation, but I have no idea of
using matrix for color space conversion.

Is anyone able to post the matrix for HSV color conversion?

Thank you.




From michael at stroeder.com  Wed Jan 10 04:34:10 2001
From: michael at stroeder.com (Michael =?iso-8859-1?Q?Str=F6der?=)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 10:34:10 +0100
Subject: mxTools (was Re: why no "do : until"?)
References: <Iw5jLKALa0W6Ewjq@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
  <Pine.LNX.4.30.0101092015010.5204-100000@fep132.fep.ru> <mailman.979066090.17094.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3A5C2C92.C85A3DE8@stroeder.com>

Robin Becker wrote:
> 
> What percentage of modules really needs mxDateTime? The answer is of
> course 0% or 100% depending on your point of view.

0% in my case. But the reason is that personally I try to avoid
modules not part of the standard library to reduce the amount of
third-party modules people have to install to use my software.

Therefore my decision to use it or not is not independent from the
decision to add it to the standard lib.

Ciao, MIchael.


From tdelaney at avaya.com  Thu Jan 11 19:11:33 2001
From: tdelaney at avaya.com (Delaney, Timothy)
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 11:11:33 +1100
Subject: boolean xor
Message-ID: <B43D149A9AB2D411971300B0D03D7E8B0FBDA1@natasha.auslabs.avaya.com>

Actually, I think it should work the other way. Because it is not *always*
possible to return one of the arguments, xor should never return either of
the arguments. This is the path of least-astonishment.

There's just no way to short circuit xor. Your proposed method presumably
continues as

 def xor(A,B):
     if not A: return B
     if not B: return A
     return 0

This may be better (returning only requires the implementation detail of
returning a reference), but it can also be worse (need to evaluate 2 values
after dereferencing them, plus then need to return a *different* reference).

I remember hashing this out on comp.lang.c quite a few years ago now ...

Tim Delaney
Avaya Australia
+61 2 9352 9079

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Alex Martelli [mailto:aleaxit at yahoo.com]
> Sent: Friday, 12 January 2001 3:53 AM
> To: python-list at python.org
> Subject: Re: boolean xor
> 
> 
> "Steve Holden" <sholden at holdenweb.com> wrote in message
> news:Tbi76.10504$X3.66627 at e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com...
>     [snip]
> > A possibly salient point which hasn't been explicitly stated in this
> thread
> > (but might have been, seventeen days ago, my aging memory 
> and general
> > decreptitude being what it is) is that the binary logical operators
> > short-circuit, and return the value of the last operand 
> they evaluated.
> Even
> 
> Bingo -- I *was* starting to think I should post about that.  
> For least-
> astonishment purposes, I'd thus like the xor function to 
> behave similarly:
> return either A or B if at all possible (it may not be, of course, if
> both A and B are true).  E.g.,
> 
> def xor(A,B):
>     if not A: return B
>     if not B: return A
> 
> (perhaps too cutesy in the attempted symmetry and in relying on the
> default fall-off-the-end to avoid an explicit return None...).
> 
> 
> Alex
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 



From fredrik at effbot.org  Thu Jan 25 16:49:18 2001
From: fredrik at effbot.org (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 21:49:18 GMT
Subject: Tkinter vs wxPython: your opinions?
References: <3A6F899F.E164F628@home.com> <hvZb6.2156$_8.33280@news1.rdc1.bc.home.com> <slrn9710o1.73.cerutti@fiad06.norwich.edu> <slrn971716.ums.zeitlin@seth.lpthe.jussieu.fr>
Message-ID: <yb1c6.9237$Qb7.1333124@newsb.telia.net>

Vadim Zeitlin wrote:
>  This is very strange. Where is good documentation for
> Tkinter to be found?

on my newsserver, his post included pointers to John Grayson's
book and the pythonware docs.

maybe you flamed away before reading the entire post?

Cheers /F




From sheila at thinkspot.net  Sat Jan 20 00:57:03 2001
From: sheila at thinkspot.net (Sheila King)
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 05:57:03 GMT
Subject: Translating a Perl script into Python
Message-ID: <vo9i6t04nhurgv2avmgoss4mg86ofcuhtv@4ax.com>

As part of my learning exercises, I've been attempting to translate a short
perl script into Python.

I don't really know Perl, but when I was attempting to learn how to use the
.qmail files at my web host and run scripts on it for filtering, etc... the
sysadmin posted a sample script in Perl to give me an idea what some of the
possibilities might be.

I think I understand the Perl script well enough to try to translate it. So,
here I will present the two scripts: (1) The original Perl script written by
the sysadmin at my web host, and (2) my attempt at a Python translation. I've
already tested it, and the output files are identical. I'm curious about style
or good programming type comments.

Note: the identifiers SENDER NEWSENDER RECIPIENT USER HOME HOST LOCAL EXT EXT2
EXT3 EXT4 DTLINE RPLINE UFLINE
are environment variables passed by .qmail to the script.

Here is the original Perl script:
------------------------------------------------------------
#!/usr/local/bin/perl

@slurp = <>;
@qmail = qw(SENDER NEWSENDER RECIPIENT USER HOME HOST LOCAL EXT EXT2 EXT3
EXT4 DTLINE RPLINE UFLINE);
open PROC, ">proc.test" || die "Couldn't open file for write: $!";
$id = `/usr/bin/id`;
print PROC "ID: $id\n";
print PROC "Environment Variables\n";
foreach $key (@qmail) {
  print PROC "$key = $ENV{$key}\n";
}
print PROC "\nSlurp\n";
print PROC @slurp;
close PROC;
------------------------------------------------------------


Here is my Python translation:
------------------------------------------------------------
#! /big/dom/xthinkspot/Python-2.0/python

import sys, os, commands

slurp = sys.stdin.read()
qmail = ["SENDER", "NEWSENDER", "RECIPIENT", "USER", "HOME", "HOST", "LOCAL",
"EXT", "EXT2", "EXT3", "EXT4", "DTLINE", "RPLINE", "UFLINE"]
try:
	PROC = open("proc.test","w")
except:
	sys.stderr << "Couldn't open file for write\n"
	raise
id = commands.getoutput("/usr/bin/id")
PROC.write("ID: "+id+"\n\n")
PROC.write("Environment Variables\n")
for key in qmail:
	PROC.write(key + " = " + os.environ[key] + "\n")
PROC.write("\nSlurp\n")
for line in slurp:
	PROC.write(line)
PROC.close()
------------------------------------------------------------

I appreciate all comments,

--
Sheila King
http://www.thinkspot.net/sheila/
http://www.k12groups.org/



From jp at NOSPAMdemonseed.net  Fri Jan 19 00:22:13 2001
From: jp at NOSPAMdemonseed.net (jason petrone)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 05:22:13 +0000
Subject: PSU uses emacs?
References: <948e4b$hm0$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <5ui849.666.ln@demonseed.net>

Chris Ryland <cpr at emsoftware.com> wrote:

> Why do I have the sinking feeling that, with all the talk about IDEs
> for Python, that the cognoscenti all use Emacs with python-mode and a
> shell window? ;-)

Maybe we will see a day when Emacs scripts can be written in python instead
of elisp.  Maybe then functions in my ~/.emacs will make sense for months after
I write them instead of minutes.

happily-scripting-vim-in-python-and-not-wearing-out-my-(-and-)-keys-yours,

jason


From news at dorb.com  Wed Jan 31 22:06:51 2001
From: news at dorb.com (Darrell)
Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 03:06:51 GMT
Subject: serial port
References: <3a78ca89_2@skyweb.ca>
Message-ID: <fp4e6.142909$ju6.13499270@typhoon.nyroc.rr.com>

For windows check this out.    win32comport_demo.py

--Darrell

"mike" <mike at skyweb.ca> wrote in message news:3a78ca89_2 at skyweb.ca...
> is there any modules for serial port communication?
>
>




From mhammond at my-deja.com  Tue Jan  9 20:18:09 2001
From: mhammond at my-deja.com (Mark Hammond)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 01:18:09 GMT
Subject: Can we in python code, catch exception generated by C++ pythonized function?
References: <3A5A4545.661385AD@aristotech.com>
Message-ID: <93gd8d$las$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

In article <3A5A4545.661385AD at aristotech.com>,
  Siu-Tong Hui <tong at aristotech.com> wrote:
> I tried and it won't. Anybody have any workaround for that? Any
pointer
> is appreciated. Thanks.

I tried and it will.  Anybody have any further details for that?  Any
pointer to exactly what you mean is appreciated. Thanks.


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From smibr at my-deja.com  Tue Jan 23 14:32:13 2001
From: smibr at my-deja.com (smibr at my-deja.com)
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 19:32:13 GMT
Subject: PIL Example
Message-ID: <94km7t$caq$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

When I run the following example from the PIL documentation, the
traceback indicates an attempt to redefine "fill" in line xx. Has the
mechanism for passing named parameters changed in 2.0?

Thanks.

import Image, ImageDraw

im = Image.open("lena.pgm")

draw = ImageDraw.Draw(im)
draw.line((0, 0) + im.size, fill=128)
draw.line((0, im.size[1], im.size[0], 0), fill=128)
del draw

# write to stdout
im.save(sys.stdout, "PNG")



Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From andrew_dot_henshaw_at_earthling_dot_net  Mon Jan 15 20:48:11 2001
From: andrew_dot_henshaw_at_earthling_dot_net (Andrew Henshaw)
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 20:48:11 -0500
Subject: why no "do : until"?
References: <mailman.979188492.12187.python-list@python.org> <90278A4rcamesz@127.0.0.1> <mailman.979261813.31482.python-list@python.org> <t5su71caku5gd0@corp.supernews.com> <3A5F264D.4D7C024A@gte.net> <t61aqqat4fssc2@corp.supernews.com> <3A633415.47D71944@gte.net>
Message-ID: <t67adbri6trj9c@corp.supernews.com>

It looks like we're pretty close to agreement.  Like you, I believe that a
conditional with a 'while' is easier to explain to new users.
Conversationally, I can say to my 10-year old, "while the value here
(pointing at the screen) is less than the value here (pointing at the
screen), execute these lines (pointing at the block) over and over."
However, it wouldn't be as easy to explain 'while 1' as it is to explain
'do' for an infinite loop (that can only be *broken* out of).

In fact I think 'do' makes the concept of 'break' easier to explain.  To
first introduce 'break', I'd rather start with the infinitely-looping 'do'.
Then it becomes clear that there is a need for some extreme construct like
'break'.  If you have a 'while 1' at the top, then the question becomes,
"why don't you just change the 'while' so you can get out of the loop?"
Then you have to explain why that's not always possible/desirable.

AH

"Steve Williams" <sandj.williams at gte.net> wrote in message
news:3A633415.47D71944 at gte.net...
> Andrew Henshaw wrote:
...snip...
> But, I'm not a C programmer and 'while 1' doesn't speak to me in a
language I
> can appreciate.
>
> I had the hardest time understanding the ISO on/off switch codes of 1/0.
Was
> this high-level logic or low-level logic?  Using -1 as a truth value is
beyond
> my comprehension--since -1 is less than 1, it must be false. . ..
>
> In any case, I want to see a real conditional as part of the 'while'.
That's
> just the way I'm put together.  And I don't want the conditional used as
some
> kind of tatty scope delimiter fifty lines later.  If you need a scope
delimiter,
> use 'end-while'.
>
> If I have a 'while x <> 0:' statement it tells me something.  It says
"this is a
> loop and this is how it's terminated".  I can then search for the variable
x and
> see who sets it or how it's referenced in the loop.  If I have to prime
the
> value of x before the loop, that's OK with me.  Actually, I like to
initialize
> all my variables.  I'm kind of a control freak that way.
>
> Conversely, when I see 'While 1', all I know is "this is a loop".  I'm now
on
> notice to dig deeper and find out how the loop terminates and hope I get
it
> right.
>
...snip...




From sp00fD at yahoo.com  Thu Jan 25 12:01:53 2001
From: sp00fD at yahoo.com (sp00fD)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 17:01:53 GMT
Subject: Library paths
Message-ID: <94pm5p$mhi$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

I build Python2.0, and added in tk support.  Now when I try to use
python, I get:
ld.so.1: python: fatal: libtk8.3.so: open failed: No such file or
directory

I can set my LD_LIBRARY_PATH to point to the directory which holds the
tk library and everything is cool.  The question is, is there any way
to build python so that I don't have to add a LD_LIBRARY_PATH entry to
all the users?


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From dsh8290 at rit.edu  Tue Jan 30 11:18:55 2001
From: dsh8290 at rit.edu (D-Man)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 11:18:55 -0500
Subject: How to extend sys.path on Win9x permanently?
In-Reply-To: <3a75ef9c.11194652@news.muenster.de>; from m.bless@gmx.de on Mon, Jan 29, 2001 at 10:54:55PM +0000
References: <3a75ef9c.11194652@news.muenster.de>
Message-ID: <20010130111855.C22069@harmony.cs.rit.edu>

On Mon, Jan 29, 2001 at 10:54:55PM +0000, Martin Bless wrote:
[snip]
| [... and besides, this new WinMe on one machine  dismisses all changes
| I make to autoexec.bat und reverts  to the previous version the next
| time I reboot. How can I change this behaviour?]

AFAIK WinME purposefully ignores autoexec.bat.  IMHO WinME is a horrid
breakage of Win2k just to put a box with a smaller price tag on the
self.  I read an article in PC Magazine that described the "features"
of WinME.  Amongst them are:  media player doesn't work,  some virus
scanners don't work, can't configure the system with autoexec.bat, and
a bunch of other things too.  I read an article several years ago that
Win98 and NT4.0 were to be the last of the windows series before MS
combined them into one product and only have one line of windows from
now on.  I heard that WinME was created because there were people who
wanted to upgrade from Win98 but didn't want to pay the high price of
Win2k.

I don't think this helps much, but maybe you will find the information
interesting.

| 
| thanks a lot
| Martin Bless
| -- 

-D




From quinn at regurgitate.ugcs.caltech.edu  Sat Jan 20 22:11:04 2001
From: quinn at regurgitate.ugcs.caltech.edu (Quinn Dunkan)
Date: 21 Jan 2001 03:11:04 GMT
Subject: Tabbing/Spaces
References: <B68E060D.901B%bobhicks@adelphia.net> <mtzogn9rpx.fsf@astron.berkeley.edu> <ivcZcLAtwLa6Ew2r@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <mtu26v9iwm.fsf@astron.berkeley.edu> <slrn96ipbi.oul.quinn@groat.ugcs.caltech.edu> <94bu2u0jl5@news2.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <slrn96kkq8.9v2.quinn@regurgitate.ugcs.caltech.edu>

On Sat, 20 Jan 2001 12:47:54 +0100, Alex Martelli <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote:
>"Quinn Dunkan" <quinn at groat.ugcs.caltech.edu> wrote in message
>news:slrn96ipbi.oul.quinn at groat.ugcs.caltech.edu...
>> On 19 Jan 2001 16:17:13 -0800, Johann Hibschman
><johann at physics.berkeley.edu>
>> wrote:
>> >Shrug.  Whatever suits you best, I guess.  I just hate getting all-tab
>> >code, since then I have to re-indent it for it to be readable.
>> >All-space code, on the other hand, always looks fine.
>>
>> Unless you use proportional fonts.
>
>The syntactically significant whitespace in Python is that from
>the left margin and the first non-white character of each line.
>_In this specific context_, use of proportional fonts is not an
>issue: 'all-space code ... looks fine' regardless of that.

I disagree---the spaces are way too narrow, and it makes it quite hard to
figure out what lines up with what, or worse, figure out how many spaces to
hit to get into the right block.  It doesn't look *awful*, but it sure doesn't
look "fine"... at least not to my (low-res) eyes.

And of course, people don't just format relative to the left margin, they also
also try to line up other things (although it's easy to go overboard on that).


From moshez at zadka.site.co.il  Tue Jan 30 13:52:07 2001
From: moshez at zadka.site.co.il (Moshe Zadka)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 20:52:07 +0200 (IST)
Subject: Sets in Python
In-Reply-To: <956hcd$qef$1@tyfon.itea.ntnu.no>
References: <956hcd$qef$1@tyfon.itea.ntnu.no>
Message-ID: <20010130185207.0CB75A83E@darjeeling.zadka.site.co.il>

On Tue, 30 Jan 2001, "Magnus Lie Hetland" <mlh at idi.ntnu.no> wrote:

> And if one was to write a small wrapper of some kind --
> is there any way to implement "x in s" without a linear search?
> Or does the "in" operator always loop from 0 and up?
> (It would certainly be nice to be able to override it...)

It can be if you're using Python 1.6 or later:

class set:

	def __init__(self, els):
		self.data = {}
		for el in els:
			self.data[el] = None

	def __contains__(self, el):
		return self.data.has_key(el)

1 in set([1, 2])
3 not in set([1, 2])
-- 
Moshe Zadka <sig at zadka.site.co.il>
This is a signature anti-virus. 
Please stop the spread of signature viruses!
Fingerprint: 4BD1 7705 EEC0 260A 7F21  4817 C7FC A636 46D0 1BD6



From amk at mira.erols.com  Fri Jan 26 20:40:41 2001
From: amk at mira.erols.com (A.M. Kuchling)
Date: 27 Jan 2001 01:40:41 GMT
Subject: c(++)python?
References: <3A71EB9C.D258C1C0@comm.mot.com>
Message-ID: <slrn974aj1.29n.amk@mira.erols.com>

On Fri, 26 Jan 2001 15:26:52 -0600, 
	Stephen Boulet <stepheb at comm.mot.com> wrote:
>Is this in fact the case, or was c++ not standardized/mature enough
>when python first came out?

Beats me.  I suspect it probably boils down to simple circumstance,
such as Guido not having a C++ compiler on his Mac, but you'd have to
ask him.  

--amk


From peter at engcorp.com  Sat Jan 27 03:23:40 2001
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 03:23:40 -0500
Subject: Newbie question
References: <94tp0p$8bj$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <3A72858C.E5A93DD3@engcorp.com>

thrasymedes at my-deja.com wrote:
> 
> 2. I am currently using Python 1.5.2 and the appropriate version of
> Pythonwin for it.  Should I upgrade to Python 2.1 or ActivePython or
> some other version?  (I have no intention in the short term to do
> anything more with it than footle around trying to figure out how it
> works (virtually no prior programming experience) and maybe writing
> some programs with a purely ASCII display.)

The only reason for you to upgrade, given your stated intentions,
is if you start to get confused with information you read here
or elsewhere which refers to a different version of Python than
the one you are using (it would probably be version 2.0).

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Of course, if you have even the slightest urge to upgrade,
it's not exactly a difficult process, so I wouldn't worry
about this one if I were you.

(Sorry I can't adequately answer your first question.)


From db3l at fitlinxx.com  Thu Jan 18 03:00:50 2001
From: db3l at fitlinxx.com (David Bolen)
Date: 18 Jan 2001 03:00:50 -0500
Subject: how to run a DOS program without getting a box?
References: <3A64E195.ECA51312@cableinet.co.uk> <Kwb96.3026$3N1.69942@news2-win.server.ntlworld.com> <mailman.979737259.2909.python-list@python.org> <3A667773.C00AC40B@javanet.com>
Message-ID: <ulms9qogd.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com>

Raymond Hettinger <othello at javanet.com> writes:

> Dan Rolander wrote:
(...)
> > >>> import os
> > >>> test = os.popen("c:\\test.bat")
> 
> Interesting that this works from the command prompt but fails inside the
> PythonWin
> environment.  The error message is:
>     WindowsError: [Errno 2] The system cannot find the file specified

This is a known problem with the os module implementation of popen in
Python 1.5.2 - it's actually not Python's fault, but a problem with an
underying issue with the Windows C popen() call - it won't work
without console handles, which a GUI application like Pythonwin
doesn't have.  (And actually, I believe that os.popen is less than
reliable under Windows versions other than NT, but I don't have a lot
of direct experience with that).

For Python 1.5.2, you can use the win32pipe.popen() call from the
win32all package, and it will work in both cases (and under Win9x),
but until the last one or two updates of the win32all package, one
difference is that you couldn't get the exit code of the process back
during the pipe close().  That works in the most recent releases.

As of Python 2.0, the os module works fine in both cases (it
incorporated the code from the win32all module when run under
Windows).

--
-- David
-- 
/-----------------------------------------------------------------------\
 \               David Bolen            \   E-mail: db3l at fitlinxx.com  /
  |             FitLinxx, Inc.            \  Phone: (203) 708-5192    |
 /  860 Canal Street, Stamford, CT  06902   \  Fax: (203) 316-5150     \
\-----------------------------------------------------------------------/


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sun Jan 28 13:43:47 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 19:43:47 +0100
Subject: SIGs
References: <3A72C8A3.C4B4D69A@stroeder.com> <slrn97650f.i1.amk@mira.erols.com> <3A731F26.15461A27@stroeder.com> <slrn978o29.gn.amk@mira.erols.com>
Message-ID: <951p9a0mn@news2.newsguy.com>

"A.M. Kuchling" <amk at mira.erols.com> wrote in message
news:slrn978o29.gn.amk at mira.erols.com...
    [snip]
> In any case, making something a SIG as opposed to just a mailing list
> will not magically free up more of people's time to work on the SIG's
> deliverable.  SIGs have sputtered along without produced much of value
> before; cases in point include the import-sig, locator-sig, plot-sig,
> and types-sig, which don't seem to have altered the Python landscape
> much.

Which reminds me -- is it just me, or does the page at
http://www.python.org/sigs/ REALLY state that EVERY
Python SIG has expired except catalog-sig (with 5 more
months' life to go) and the two perennials meta-sig and
pythonmac-sig?


Alex





From donn at oz.net  Sat Jan 13 02:29:25 2001
From: donn at oz.net (Donn Cave)
Date: 13 Jan 2001 07:29:25 GMT
Subject: How robust is Python ?
References: <93nh5u$9nk$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>, <9358nn$3c5$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, <9354f9$vbi$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, <LOBBJMHOIFOLFIPFANHJAEJFCHAA.zope@TheWebsons.com> <mailman.978716227.31692.python-list@python.org> <mailman.978721929.3640.python-list@python.org> <20010106103938.8FCAFA84F@darjeeling.zadka.site.co.il> <mailman.979313781.1111.python-list@python.org> <mailman.979350018.26218.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <93p04l$4ud$0@216.39.151.169>

Quoth Moshe Zadka <moshez at zadka.site.co.il>:
| On 12 Jan 2001 18:07:58 GMT, Donn Cave <donn at u.washington.edu> wrote:
|> But back to the subject, I would be interested in more concrete
|> examples of what exceptions we're liable to catch in a case like that.
|> I have used top level handlers, but only as basically an alternative to
|> the traceback, not to resume execution.
|
| In my original message, I didn't say "resume execution" -- I said
| "re-exec", meaning (sorry for not being clearer) using the exec(2)
| system call to restart itself from scratch. I wouldn't just
| resume execution after an identified exception.

Nor after an unidentified exception, I suppose.  No, I got
that.  I wouldn't either, but a handful of follow-ups from
usually reliable sources of enlightenment haven't blinked
at that notion under the subject "How robust is Python",
while writing at length about "try: continue".  Leading
me to wonder if it's not so crazy after all?

	Donn Cave, donn at oz.net


From bryan at eevolved.com  Mon Jan 22 12:46:21 2001
From: bryan at eevolved.com (Bryan Mongeau)
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 17:46:21 GMT
Subject: Editor font in IDLE (Linux)
References: <3A6C1221.9000302@e-pack.net>
Message-ID: <Nl_a6.120350$n%.4011843@news20.bellglobal.com>

> Hi,
> 
> There's a hint in the EditorWindow module for changing the default font
> and size for Win32 users.
> What can a Linux IDLE user do to change the extreme small and ugly font
> used in
> IDLE (0.5) ?
> 
> TIA
> 
> Gilles
> 

This is what I did ( shame-faced hack... ):

grep through the file config-unix.txt .

Change lines "font-name=" and "font-size=" to whatever you want. I use 
terminal, size 12.

enjoy.

-- 
<==================================>
Bryan Mongeau
Lead Developer, Director
eEvolved Real-Time Technologies Inc.
www.eevolved.com
<==================================>

"Whoever undertakes to set himself up as a judge of Truth and Knowledge is 
shipwrecked by the laughter of the gods."-- Einstein



From mfletch at tpresence.com  Fri Jan 12 12:54:41 2001
From: mfletch at tpresence.com (Mike Fletcher)
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 12:54:41 -0500
Subject: my uthreads execute serially
Message-ID: <CC59868A0A76D311B1F50090277B321C1F37AD@VRTMAIL>

Same here, works fine with 1.5.4 (1.5.2) version of stackless, but doesn't
work for the 2.0 version.  No idea how I missed that, but it's definitely
failing to switch contexts without an explicit switchContext.  I have no
time today to track it down this weekend, maybe Chris can take a look?
(Note, adding a switchContext does make the threads run in parallel, but
that shouldn't be necessary).

uthread9 does complain on my machine, but I'd though it was the posting an
exception to another thread test (which prints out the traceback).  Should
have had an explicit test for such a simple thing I suppose.

Sorry about that,
Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: Wolfgang Lipp
To: python-list at python.org
Sent: 1/12/2001 11:06 AM
Subject: my uthreads execute serially



can anybody help me with this problem? i am using stackless python 2.0
on win98se, on a laptop. when i execute the following
program:

    import uthread9 as uthread
    import time

    def timer_elapsed( started ):
        return time.time() - started

    def timer_over( started, stoptime ):
        return timer_elapsed( started ) > stoptime

    def timer( letter, stoptime ):
        started = time.time()
        print "%s is started" % letter
        while not timer_over( started, stoptime ):
            pass
        print '%s is done after %3.2fs' % ( letter, timer_elapsed(
started ) )

    uthread.new( timer, 'a', 5 )
    uthread.new( timer, 'b', 3 )
    uthread.new( timer, 'c', 2 )

    uthread.run()

my output looks like this:

    a is started
    a is done after 5.05s
    b is started
    b is done after 3.02s
    c is started
    c is done after 2.04s

which clearly indicates that the threads do *not* run in the parallel.
moreover, the outputs from all the examples on
http://world.std.com/~wware/uthread.html also point into interpreting
them as being executed one thread after the other. since all
the snippets as well as the test suite u1.py from that page work without
complaining, i guess that there is no problem with my
installation.

furthermore, i tried a few examples using the threading module, and the
results appear to be ok. because of this and because
uthreads are not, to my understanding and unlike the threading module,
dependent on the os, it can't be my laptop that's to small to
fit in threads :-| ...

can anyone help me parallelize my uthreads?


yours,

-wolf






-- 
http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list



From johnstonwells at my-deja.com  Tue Jan 16 12:18:17 2001
From: johnstonwells at my-deja.com (johnstonwells at my-deja.com)
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 17:18:17 GMT
Subject: [ANNOUNCE] Kaivo Announces Python Training Partnership
Message-ID: <941voe$uuf$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

KAIVO ANNOUNCES PYTHON TRAINING PARTNERSHIP

DENVER (Jan. 16, 2001) - Kaivo, a leading Open Source solutions
provider, announced that they will be partnering with Mark Lutz, one of
the primary figures in the Python community, in the delivery of Python
education and training.

The three day course, "Python for Programmers" is an in-depth, hands-on
introduction to the Python programming / scripting language. Students
will learn Python language fundamentals as well as how to apply Python
in a handful of common application domains, such as Internet scripting,
systems programming, and user interface development.  "Python for
Programmers" has been successfully presented to both programming
experts and novices. Therefore there are no absolute prerequisites for
it other than basic computer familiarity. Some prior background in
programming may help for later topics, but is not generally required.

The first course will be offered February 21 to 23 in Denver, CO.
Detailed course information and on-line registration is available at
http://www.kaivo.com/KaivoCourses/catalog or call Kaivo at 303-539-0200
and ask for a training coordinator.  Kaivo plans to co-sponsor future
classes, in Denver as well as other parts of the country-check
www.kaivo.com for periodic updates to the schedule.

"Our customers and potential customers are constantly requesting Python
training," said Kathy Gosa, Kaivo's vice president of education. "The
extremely rapid growth of the Python community has driven us to provide
the best training possible.  We are very excited to be partnering with
someone of Mark's expertise."

Mark Lutz is a Python trainer, writer, and software developer, and is
one of the primary figures in the Python community. He is the author of
the O'Reilly books "Programming Python" and "Python Pocket Reference"
and co-author of "Learning Python". Mark has been involved with Python
since 1992, and began teaching Python classes in 1997.

"I'm excited to be working with Kaivo," said Lutz, "especially due to
their experience with open systems and open source.  I think their co-
sponsoring of this class and future classes indicates the continuing
rapid growth of Python adoption."

ABOUT KAIVO
Kaivo began as a UNIX education and training provider in 1984.  We have
been educating customers on the benefits and power of Open Systems and
Open Source tools for sixteen years.  That experience has taught us how
important technical training can be to the rapid adoption and
successful implementation of a powerful tool like Python.

ABOUT PYTHON
Python is a popular object-oriented scripting language, used for a wide
variety of programming tasks.  Visit www.python.org for more
information, and to download the most current Python release free.

# # #

Contacts:
Kathy Gosa
VP Education
Kaivo
303.539.0200
www.kaivo.com

Mark Lutz
lutz at rmi.net
http://www.rmi.net/~lutz


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From m.faassen at vet.uu.nl  Sat Jan 13 08:36:31 2001
From: m.faassen at vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen)
Date: 13 Jan 2001 13:36:31 GMT
Subject: Web devel with python. Whats the best route?
References: <93pii2$c4c$2@newshost.accu.uu.nl> <mailman.979331115.13089.python-list@python.org> <mailman.979391354.21685.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <93plkv$c4e$4@newshost.accu.uu.nl>

Moshe Zadka <moshez at zadka.site.co.il> wrote:

> [Cliff Crawford]
>> InterTran translates the phrase "Tim Peters" as "[Tim] Godfather".  :)

> [Steve Holden]
>> So he *is* a member of the

> [Tim Peters]
>> All right, I've had it.  It's time to come clean!  Here's the tru

> [Martijn Faassen]
>> It appears there's some kind of bizarre interaction between 
>> NNTP (or is it MailMan?) and temporal paradoxes here, that

> Huh? I see no such thing at my end.

Don't you look at what you're replying to today, Moshe? All these
messages are cut off in


From syver at NOSPAMcyberwatcher.com  Sat Jan 20 19:02:36 2001
From: syver at NOSPAMcyberwatcher.com (Syver Enstad)
Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 01:02:36 +0100
Subject: How do I know all thrown exceptions of a function?
References: <g3lb49.73s.ln@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <94d93h$55d$1@troll.powertech.no>

Couldn't you use the source?

<gradha at iname.com> wrote in message news:g3lb49.73s.ln at 127.0.0.1...
> Hi.
>
> Several times browsing the module library, I've found some functions which
> state explicitly what exceptions they throw, because they are not the
> built-in types. However, how can I know the built-in exceptions a function
> my throw?
>
> This happened while implementing a file open call: I remembered it throwed
> and IOError exception when the file I was trying to open wasn't there, but
> I guess that's not a great way to discover what exceptions are thrown...
>
> --
>
>  Grzegorz Adam Hankiewicz   gradha at iname.com - http://gradha.infierno.org
>  Other web pages:  http://glub.ehu.es/  -  http://welcome.to/gogosoftware/




From nospam at mega-nerd.com  Fri Jan 26 21:18:31 2001
From: nospam at mega-nerd.com (Erik de Castro Lopo)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 02:18:31 GMT
Subject: c(++)python?
References: <3A71EB9C.D258C1C0@comm.mot.com>
Message-ID: <3A722CE4.56442E08@mega-nerd.com>

Stephen Boulet wrote:
> 
> This is just something I've wondered about, and not intended to be a
> troll.
> 
> Why is the most popular implementation of python in C? A novice
> programmer (like myself) might think:  "python is itself an
> object-oriented language, so it would make sense to implement it in
> another object-oriented language."

What makes you think you can't program in an OO manner in C? 

> Is this in fact the case, or was c++ not standardized/mature enough
> when python first came out?

That might well be case. Its also possible the C was thought to be a
better option becuase unlike Python's clean OO implementation the C++ 
one is a mess of the highest order. C++ is the only language I know
of with such an overwhelming feature bloat.

Just my opinion,
Erik
-- 
+----------------------------------------------------------+
  Erik de Castro Lopo  nospam at mega-nerd.com (Yes its valid)
+----------------------------------------------------------+
Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win.
2) You cannot break even.
3) You cannot get out of the game.


From tim.one at home.com  Tue Jan  2 12:30:58 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2001 12:30:58 -0500
Subject: sre \Z bug or feature?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10101021649240.9742-100000@kev.ioc.ee>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCGEFMIGAA.tim.one@home.com>

[posted & mailed]

[Pearu Peterson]
> >>> re.match(r'(?ms).*?}\s*\Z(?P<rest>.*)','{}\012}\012').groupdict()
> {'rest': ''}
>
> but in Python 2.0 the same match gives
>
> >>> re.match(r'(?ms).*?}\s*\Z(?P<rest>.*)','{}\012}\012').groupdict()
> {'rest': '\012}\012'}
>
> which is surprising because according to docs:
>
> \Z  Matches only at the end of the string.
> ...

You may want to add this test case to the bug "New re breaks on some '*?'
matches" opened yesterday:

http://sourceforge.net/bugs/?func=detailbug&bug_id=127259&group_id=5470

> It seems that the `{}' part is somehow responsible to this
> behaviour because
>
> >>> re.match(r'(?ms).*?}\s*\Z(?P<rest>.*)','aa\012}\012').groupdict()
> {'rest': ''}
>
> is expected result and is obtained with Python 2.0.

If you try the test strings:

'}\012\012'
'}}\012\012'
'}}}\012\012'
'}}}}\012\012'
'}}}}}\012\012'

etc you'll find that the regexp works as expected if there are an odd number
of "}" characters, but doesn't match at all if there are an even number.
That aspect is very much like the current bug report.

> ... any hints how to go around this bug without updating Python
> from CVS after it is fixed?

It's unclear what you're trying to accomplish.  Tell us in words what it is
you're trying to match, and I'm sure we can find an equivalent regexp that
doesn't use *?.  As is, your regexp should match any string whatsoever that
ends with a } followed by optional whitespace, and set groupdict('rest') to
an empty string.  It can never set 'rest' to anything other than an empty
string.  If that's really what you intended, then

    r'(?s).*}\s*\Z(?P<rest>)'

is a simpler and faster way to accomplish that.  But I doubt that's what you
intended.

minimal-matches-backtrack-too-except-they-grow-longer-and-longer-
   ly y'rs  - tim




From grante at visi.com  Fri Jan 19 15:19:31 2001
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 20:19:31 GMT
Subject: PSU uses emacs?
References: <948e4b$hm0$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <slrn96gjd2.1ch.gerhard.nospam@lilith.hqd-internal.de> <949mnk$bgu$1@panix6.panix.com>
Message-ID: <nj1a6.799$eI2.253376@ruti.visi.com>

In article <949mnk$bgu$1 at panix6.panix.com>, Aahz Maruch wrote:
>In article <slrn96gjd2.1ch.gerhard.nospam at lilith.hqd-internal.de>,
>Gerhard =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E4ring?= <gerhard.nospam at bigfoot.de> wrote:
>>
>>jstar from joe here. Everybody who grew up with MS-DOS and Turbo-Pascal
>>knows that the WordStar keybindings are the one-and-only that really count.
>
>Except that *I* grew up with CP/M and TurboPascal.  And I still prefer
>vi these days.  (Largely because of the fuckheads who mucked with the
>Proper way to design a keyboard, with the control key to the left of the
>"A" the way Ghod intended.)

Under Linux (console or X) It's fairly simple to put it back
where it's supposed to be.  Under WinNT, there's some sort of
registry magic that can be done.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  ... Blame it on the
                                  at               BOSSA NOVA!!!
                               visi.com            


From tepperly at llnl.gov  Thu Jan  4 10:52:17 2001
From: tepperly at llnl.gov (Tom Epperly)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 07:52:17 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Registering C methods when writing a C extension type?
In-Reply-To: <20010103201328.A7834@westsidecnc.rh.rit.edu>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.10.10101040727400.12743-100000@hadamard.llnl.gov>

Thanks to everyone who replied. You helped clear up some of my
misconceptions. I am fairly convinced by what I've read that what I've
proposed is a bad idea.

Alex Martelli wrote:
[ several lines deleted]
> > I am wondering what the relative merits/penalties of doing something
> > like the following in the constructor for the hypothetical myobject
> > instead of the above. I would like feedback about issues of style (am
> > I violating the designers intent or using functions intended for
> > internal use only), forward/backward portability, and efficiency.
> 
> I fail to see any advantage of the following approach.  OTOH, the
> disadvantages are pretty obvious:
> 
> 
> > static myobject *
> > new_myobject()
> > {
> >   myobject *self;
> >   const int len = sizeof(object_methods)/sizeof(PyMethodDef);
> >   int i;
> >   self = PyObject_NEW(myobject, &myobjecttype);
> >   if (self == NULL) return NULL;
> >   for(i = 0 ; i < len ; i++){
> >     PyObject *func = PyCFunction_New(object_methods + i, self);
> >     if (func != NULL) {
> >       PyObject_SetAttrString(self, object_methods[i].ml_name,func);
> >       Py_DECREF(func); /* remove extra reference */
> >     }
> >   }
> >   return self;
> > }
> > ...each new-object instancing pays a time price to initialize the
> > table of its methods, and, perhaps more important, the *space* to hold
> > a table that's just a copy of the object_methods one to all intents
> > and purposes.  What's the point...?

If I implement getattr/setattr with a PyDictObject (i.e. each myobject has
a dictionary instance), I thought the potential benefits would be:
1. Replace the linear lookup time implicit in Py_FindMethod with nearly
   constant time hash table lookup.
2. Avoid creating a PyCFunction_New once per method call.

It would be nice if there were a Py_FindMethodSorted where it assumed that
the PyMethodDef's were alphabetically sorted.

I was also considering a way to have one extension type being able to wrap
up numerous IDL types. The alternative is to do something like:

struct myobject {
  PyObject_HEAD
  const PyMethodDef *object_methods;
}

static PyObject *
myobject_getattr(myobject *self, char *name) {
 /* other stuff deleted */
 return Py_FindMethod(self->object_methods, self, name);
}

Tom

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tom Epperly
Center for Applied Scientific Computing   Phone: 925-424-3159
Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory      Fax: 925-424-2477
L-661, P.O. Box 808, Livermore, CA 94551  Email: tepperly at llnl.gov
------------------------------------------------------------------------




From twcinpa at early.com  Sat Jan 27 16:47:09 2001
From: twcinpa at early.com (Tom Connor)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 16:47:09 -0500
Subject: Online books
References: <mailman.979041730.32584.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <AlHc6.12068$Sl.590222@iad-read.news.verio.net>

Has anyone an opinion of "Core Python Programming" from Prentice Hall.

Thanks,

Tom Connor

"Langa Kentane" <LangaK at discoveryhealth.co.za> wrote in message
news:mailman.979041730.32584.python-list at python.org...
> Greetings.
> Can anyone please suggest a site where I can find a good online book
> [something comprehensive] on python programming that I can download.
>
> Thanks in advance
>
> __________________________________________________________
> Langa Kentane | TEL: (011) 290 3218
> Security Administrator | Cell: 082 606 1515
> DISCOVERY HEALTH | http://www.discoveryhealth.co.za
> __________________________________________________________________
>
>




From Daniel.Kinnaer at Advalvas.be  Sat Jan 27 08:57:57 2001
From: Daniel.Kinnaer at Advalvas.be (Daniel)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 13:57:57 GMT
Subject: Interested in a Crypto-SIG?
References: <3A72C8A3.C4B4D69A@stroeder.com>
Message-ID: <3a72d11f.17643900@news.skynet.be>

On Sat, 27 Jan 2001 14:09:55 +0100, Michael =?iso-8859-1?Q?Str=F6der?=
<michael at stroeder.com> wrote:

>I would like to propose a Crypto-SIG. 
>Let me know what you think.
>
>Ciao, Michael.


It would be nice to have the new AES in a Python module, just like
BlowFish, TwoFish, TDES, etc.   All of these algorithms (written in C)
can be readily found on the net.  Not a very easy subject, though...

best regards,

Daniel 


From wware at world.std.com  Sat Jan 27 09:49:55 2001
From: wware at world.std.com (Will Ware)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 14:49:55 GMT
Subject: How to check memory usage/leak of python script with C extendtion ..
References: <94srme$gr9$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <G7tt77.17F@world.std.com>

etsang at my-deja.com wrote:
> I am having a python script that interacts with a C executable through
> its pyhon C extension. I would like to monitor the memory usage of the
> whole thing? Do anyone know how to do it? Is there a tool availble for
> memory usage monitoring and memory leakage check for this situation??

I did something like this once. It turns out that part of this facility
is already built into the Python source code. If you don't mind recompiling
Python, you can try what I did:
http://www.deja.com/getdoc.xp?AN=672487959&fmt=text
What I was doing was to print the sum of all the reference counts for all
the objects. Memory problems are often associated with mismanagement of
reference counts. So if you go into a for-loop and the total number of
refcounts rises each time thru the loop, it's a likely indication that
you might need another DECREF somewhere.

-- 
import string,time,os;print string.join((lambda x:x[:10]+x[8:])(map(
lambda x:string.center("*"*(lambda x:((x<24) ### Seasons Greetings, Will Ware
*(x-3))+3)(x),24),range(1,28, 2))),"\n") ################ wware at world.std.com


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sat Jan 13 18:49:50 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 00:49:50 +0100
Subject: Using re - side effects or misunderstanding
References: <t61f9nsrgdcj0f@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <93qpmr02neb@news1.newsguy.com>

"Andrew Henshaw" <andrew_dot_henshaw_at_earthling_dot_net> wrote in message
news:t61f9nsrgdcj0f at corp.supernews.com...
    [snip]
> and I execute the following
>
>     r.findall('..abcxyz..')
    [snip]
> so how do I get the result
>
>     ['abxyz']

findall will never return a string that is not a substring of the string you
pass
it as an argument.  As abxyz is not a substring of '..abcxyz..', it will
_never_
be returned by findall, whatever r is.

> In other words, adding groups for the purpose of adding repetitions seems
to
> have a greater side-effect than I would desire.  Is there something that
I'm
> missing in my use of re's?

Rather, it seems to me, in findall (admittedly a somewhat peculiar method).

If you want, in your example, to (e.g.) match 1 or more 'abc's, then 0 or
more 'c's to be ignored, then 1 or more 'xyz's, what you'll get from findall
(with first and third normal group, second non-matching group) is a [list
containing a] tuple ('abc','xyz').  You need to ''.join it to make it into a
string; findall won't do that for you.


Alex





From paulb at infercor.no  Fri Jan 12 10:35:22 2001
From: paulb at infercor.no (Paul Boddie)
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 16:35:22 +0100
Subject: Web devel with python. Whats the best route?
References: <93cqvi0191h@news1.newsguy.com> <mailman.978910629.6814.python-list@python.org> <mailman.978975978.19612.python-list@python.org> <spenrose-E755EB.22423209012001@news.dnai.com> <93hfp1013sm@news2.newsguy.com> <spenrose-149DD9.22095710012001@news.dnai.com> <93juec0fk6@news1.newsguy.com> <93kije$cgg$1@newshost.accu.uu.nl>
Message-ID: <3A5F243A.E2325770@infercor.no>

Martijn Faassen wrote:
> 
> Yes, some kind of markers are necessary. In Zope, DTML does that job,
> but since DTML, though it can be nice, has also been called "Perl for
> the web" due too far too much magic, various people at Digital
> Creations and Hiperlogica are experimenting with another approach to
> this, called HiperDOM. Its approach is interesting:
> 
> http://www.zope.org/Wikis/DevSite/Projects/HiperDom/PrototypeDocumentation
> 
> The idea is that instead of custom tags, things happen in XHTML
> attributes, and each template can be a full web page by itself too,
> editable by WYSIWIG tools, as long as those tools leave the extra
> attributes intact.

That sounds a bit like the XMLC stuff which the Enhydra people use:

  http://www.enhydra.org

Still, DTML is nice for "reflecting" the contents of data structures without
developers needing to write code to transform the document template before it
gets sent to the browser, which I think is necessary when presenting collections
of data elements (from lists, for example) with XMLC.

Regards,

Paul


From hanche at math.ntnu.no  Fri Jan 12 18:49:56 2001
From: hanche at math.ntnu.no (Harald Hanche-Olsen)
Date: 13 Jan 2001 00:49:56 +0100
Subject: new enum idiom
References: <G6qzLy.6Fo@world.std.com> <938jmh$919$1@animus.fel.iae.nl> <3A58B9C0.9F2A5CC0@collins.rockwell.com> <93an8v02d2n@news1.newsguy.com> <93dde1$8d2$1@animus.fel.iae.nl> <93f3nb023mv@news1.newsguy.com> <90259DC4Arcamesz@127.0.0.1> <93i57b01qms@news2.newsguy.com> <90268BCE3rcamesz@127.0.0.1> <93kb0m0r3s@news1.newsguy.com> <90273B4rcamesz@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <pcoy9wgib4r.fsf@thoth.home>

+ rcameszREMOVETHIS at dds.removethistoo.nl (Robert Amesz):

| Alex Martelli wrote:
| 
| Ah, Lisp, so beautiful, so pristine, so ... verbose. Well, it's great 
| for lists, but anything numeric is a chore. Let's see:
|    (EQ (PLUS 1 1) 2)
|    t
| Phew, so least that's still true... ;-)

Which is an accident of the implementation, in the same sense that
the following is accidentally true in python:
>>> 1+1 is 2
1

I'm sure you meant to write (= (+ 1 1) 2) ?

One neat thing about Lisp though, is how you can rewrite the syntax,
for example to allow you to write infix arithmetic if you wish.  This
takes much of the pain out of involved numerical work.  I wrote some
scheme macros once (many years ago) to accomplish this - it was only a
moderate amount of work.  In Common Lisp you can accomplish much the
same thing even more elegantly using reader macros.

but-now-I-have-a-feeling-we're-in-the-wrong-newsgroup-ly y'rs,
-- 
* Harald Hanche-Olsen     <URL:http://www.math.ntnu.no/~hanche/>
- Yes it works in practice - but does it work in theory?


From slhath at home.com  Sat Jan 20 20:24:52 2001
From: slhath at home.com (Scott Hathaway)
Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 01:24:52 GMT
Subject: pyXML support for XSL tranformations??
References: <rtga6.18098$bb.708443@news1.rdc1.tx.home.com> <p6qsnmdq1ir.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <ETqa6.19059$bb.716114@news1.rdc1.tx.home.com>

Thanks!

Scott


"Martin von Loewis" <loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de> wrote in message
news:p6qsnmdq1ir.fsf at informatik.hu-berlin.de...
> "Scott Hathaway" <slhath at home.com> writes:
>
> > Using the Microsoft tools, you can load an XML document, then load and
XSL
> > or XSLT document into memory and then call nodeTransform to blend the
two
> > together and then spit it back out.
> >
> > Is there a way to do this with pyXML or any other python xml library?
>
> Try 4Suite. It is a PyXML superset, that uses the PyXML parsers and
> implements the transformations on top of it.
>
> Regards,
> Martin




From sholden at holdenweb.com  Fri Jan 12 11:06:00 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 11:06:00 -0500
Subject: How robust is Python ?
References: <9358nn$3c5$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, <9354f9$vbi$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, <LOBBJMHOIFOLFIPFANHJAEJFCHAA.zope@TheWebsons.com> <mailman.978716227.31692.python-list@python.org> <mailman.978721929.3640.python-list@python.org> <20010106103938.8FCAFA84F@darjeeling.zadka.site.co.il> <mailman.979313781.1111.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <D%F76.7503$6i.96299@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com>

"Sandipan Gangopadhyay" <sandipan at vsnl.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.979313781.1111.python-list at python.org...
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Moshe Zadka" <moshez at zadka.site.co.il>
> To: <rturpin at my-deja.com>
> Cc: <python-list at python.org>
> Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2001 4:09 PM
> Subject: Re: How robust is Python ?
>
> > On Fri, 05 Jan 2001, rturpin at my-deja.com wrote:
> >
> > > Unfortunately, cron is not cross-platform. We'll have
> > > some sort of mechanism to do this. The problem is not
> > > just the language and operating system, but everything
> > > that can kill a process. Still .. you want such mechanism
> > > as backup, not as a solution to regular crashes.
> >
> > Of course. None of this is meant to imply Python crashes regularily.
> > In fact, I can't think off-hand of a language less likely to suffer
> > crashes, given that you take a few exception-catching precautions
> > in the main loop (have a catch-all except: which re-execs the process).
>
> I want this in my code, but came across a problem -
>
> while binAliveMarker:
>   if binIWannaStartAgain:
>     time.sleep(1)
>     continue
>   work code ...
>
> If I try a catch-all except, continue hits except on the outer level
rather
> than while. Probably the reason that it results in syntax error.
>
> while binAliveMarker:
>   try:
>     if binWannaStartAgainLater:
>       time.sleep(1)
>       continue
>     work code ...
>   except:
>     pass
>
> Any suggestions to make it work with continue (or an alternative) ? Apart
> from removing continue completely by making the work code inside an else ?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Sandipan
>
The documentation states that the continue syntax error is due to "laziness"
on the part of the implementors, though they seem to keep pretty busy to me.
You can work around this with:

class Continue:
    pass

while binAliveMarker:
  try:
    if binWannaStartAgainLater:
      time.sleep(1)
      raise Continue
    work code ...
  except Continue:
    continue

You could maybe leave the "pass" you had in the except rather than changing
it to continue, but it's never a good idea to include non-selective except
clauses: they catch KeyboardInterrupt, among other nasties you probably
really want to see.

[Just passing along a wrinkle somebody else taught me...]

regards
 Steve




From trentm at ActiveState.com  Tue Jan  9 11:09:09 2001
From: trentm at ActiveState.com (Trent Mick)
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 08:09:09 -0800
Subject: API\dll
In-Reply-To: <m22e39.snm.ln@mail>; from benc@rehame.com on Tue, Jan 09, 2001 at 02:52:28PM +1100
References: <m22e39.snm.ln@mail>
Message-ID: <20010109080909.H27153@ActiveState.com>

On Tue, Jan 09, 2001 at 02:52:28PM +1100, Ben Catanzariti wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> This may seem like a simple q for a lot of you?
> 
> I have an API with a dll. To call Functions from this dll the examples for
> the API are written in C. However I would like to use Python to make the
> same function calls. Does the dll have to be written specifically in the
> language that is making the call to do this... in this case C? Or can Python
> make calls to any dll?

You have to write a Python/C extension that will mediate calls between your
Python code and the C API of your DLL. You will need to write that wrapper in
C. You should read the "Extending and Embedding the Python Interpreter"
section of the main Python docs.

An excerpt:
   It is quite easy to add new built-in modules to Python, if you know how to
   program in C. Such extension modules can do two things that can't be done
   directly in Python: they can implement new built-in object types, and they
   can call C library functions and system calls. 

http://velocity.activestate.com/docs/ActivePython/ext/ext.html



Cheers,
Trent


-- 
Trent Mick
TrentM at ActiveState.com



From lg at rgz.ru  Tue Jan  9 06:56:48 2001
From: lg at rgz.ru (lg at rgz.ru)
Date: 9 Jan 2001 14:46:48 +0250
Subject: question about regexps
Message-ID: <3a5afa28@news.edunet.ru>

may be it's offtopic but i've got next problem:
need to define recurse regexp simethink like

a = some_regexp(a)
and then pick out all nests of this regex from some string

-- 
zev


From christof_n at pastors.de  Thu Jan 11 05:33:35 2001
From: christof_n at pastors.de (Christof Pastors)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 11:33:35 +0100
Subject: Error in pythonic InternetExplorer hta application
Message-ID: <93k5cs$hc5$1@papyrus.erlm.siemens.de>

Hi,

I saw the nice concept of hta applications mentioned in

 http://deja.com/=gh/article/%3C92v27e02jia at news2.newsguy.com%3E

and rewrote the Microsoft example mentioned there

http://msdn.microsoft.com/workshop/author/hta/overview/htaoverview.asp

in Python. But it doesnt work!

I get a NameError exception because the name "TheAddress" is not found.
In which object can I find "TheAddress"???
I guessed "window.TheAddress" and "document.TheAddress" without success.

Here is my code:

<html>
<head>
  <TITLE>HTML Application Example</TITLE>
  <HTA:APPLICATION ID="HTAEx"
    APPLICATIONNAME="HTAEx"
    ICON="e.ico"
    WINDOWSTATE="normal">
</head>
<body>
<span id=AddressBar style="overflow: none">
<span id=AddText>Address</span>
<input type=text value="http://www.python.org" id=TheAddress style="width:
expression(document.body.clientWidth - AddText.offsetWidth -
AddGo.offsetWidth - 45)">
<input type=button value="Go" id=AddGo onclick="navigate()"><br>
<span>
<br>
<iframe src="http://www.python.org" id=TheFrame style="width: 100%; height:
85%"></iframe>

<script language=Python>
def navigate():
   print "Hello, " + TheAddress.value
def clickShortcut():
   if window.event.keyCode == 13:
      navigate()
TheAddress.onkeypress = clickShortcut
</script>
</body>
</html>





From roth at teleport.com  Fri Jan 19 11:30:30 2001
From: roth at teleport.com (tony roth)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 08:30:30 -0800
Subject: win ce and python
References: <e026ZYXgAHA.268@cpmsnbbsa07> <9487hp$c91$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <Oz63lUjgAHA.235@cpmsnbbsa07>

yea, damn I knew if anybody was going to say that it would be you:)  I have
about 2 days left to do a proof of concept and no energy to do it... so I'll
have to use the embedded vb stuff.  Keep up the good work Mark.



"Mark Hammond" <mhammond at my-deja.com> wrote in message news:9487hp$c91> The
only decent idea I can offer is that you jump in.
>
> Nothing-gets-done-until-someone-does-it ly,
>
> Mark.
>
>
> Sent via Deja.com
> http://www.deja.com/




From arildh at stud.cs.uit.no  Fri Jan 26 06:26:44 2001
From: arildh at stud.cs.uit.no (Arild Hansen)
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 12:26:44 +0100
Subject: Execute an external application from inside a python script
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0101261225110.6125-100000@arildh.pasta.cs.uit.no>

Hello,

How do I execute an (executable) application from inside some python code,
and how do I terminate this application? All help greatly appreciated.

A. Hansen



From jfincher at rpat-100-115.resnet.ohio-state.edu  Thu Jan 11 14:55:54 2001
From: jfincher at rpat-100-115.resnet.ohio-state.edu (Jeremy Fincher)
Date: 11 Jan 2001 19:55:54 GMT
Subject: Speed of Python vs. Perl
References: <t5eojolijv1e58@corp.supernews.com> <WN366.240570$_5.53720921@news4.rdc1.on.home.com> <slrn95qtbp.94d.tim@degree.ath.cx> <93k78401u8s@news2.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <slrn95u6oo.6it.jfincher@rpat-100-115.resnet.ohio-state.edu>

In article <93k78401u8s at news2.newsguy.com>, Daniel Chetlin wrote:
>  @hash{0 .. 99999} = (1) x 99999;
>
>The advantages of this construct are clarity and conciseness at the
>expense of a bit of speed -- the for-loop with range operator will
>likely be a bit faster -- while remaining substantially faster than the
>C-style loop.

The disadvantage of this is that it attempts to "fill" a 100000 element
hash with 99999 elements.

That syntax, I believe, is especially *unclear* and prone to error.  I
didn't even notice the error myself; another person pointed it out to
me.  A simple loop is far more clear.

Jeremy


From nospam at mega-nerd.com  Mon Jan 29 15:57:24 2001
From: nospam at mega-nerd.com (Erik de Castro Lopo)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 20:57:24 GMT
Subject: Displaying Unicode text in Tkinter Canvas widget
Message-ID: <3A75D600.60F7CD0D@mega-nerd.com>

Hi all,

I'm writing a little app for helping to learn the Japanese
Hiragana character set. At the moment I'm displaying GIF
images of the characters but I would much rather use
Unicode text. 

I've had a look at the python.org web site and installed Tamito 
Kajiyama's Japanese codecs. I've also installed Tk/Tcl 8.3 and
recompiled/installed Python 2.0.

Commands like:

    print unicode ('abcdefg', 'japanese.iso-2022-jp')

work without error messages, but I would like to know how
to display Hiragan characters without making Japanese the
default encoding.

TIA,
Erik
-- 
+----------------------------------------------------------+
  Erik de Castro Lopo  nospam at mega-nerd.com (Yes its valid)
+----------------------------------------------------------+
"Reality is just a crutch for people that can't handle CyberSpace!!"
- Hank Duderstadt


From thomas at xs4all.net  Fri Jan 12 18:11:28 2001
From: thomas at xs4all.net (Thomas Wouters)
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 00:11:28 +0100
Subject: Speed of Python vs. Perl
In-Reply-To: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCEEBNIIAA.tim.one@home.com>; from tim.one@home.com on Thu, Jan 11, 2001 at 09:01:28PM -0500
References: <14941.48767.124071.397459@beluga.mojam.com> <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCEEBNIIAA.tim.one@home.com>
Message-ID: <20010113001128.D1005@xs4all.nl>

On Thu, Jan 11, 2001 at 09:01:28PM -0500, Tim Peters wrote:

> Like everything else, it varies by platform and configuration.

Indeed. For instance, on a typical UNIX box, fstat() (which python does
quite a few, to look for site.py and all imports and such) can be both
incredibly fast (if the directories are already in the disk cache, of which
Linux has a very good one, for instance) and terribly slow (NFS filesystems,
for instance, really suck in that.)

So, the startup time of python can vary depending on in what directory you
type it ;)

-- 
Thomas Wouters <thomas at xs4all.net>

Hi! I'm a .signature virus! copy me into your .signature file to help me spread!



From chris at voodooland.net  Sun Jan 21 19:33:02 2001
From: chris at voodooland.net (Chris Watson)
Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 18:33:02 -0600 (CST)
Subject: patch for python configure for freeBSD and Zope
In-Reply-To: <01012213091603.00887@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.21.0101211831410.77700-100000@open-systems.net>

> No reason except that I have an install script for python, zope, and modules
> (including configuration) for both that I "know" form a stable environment on
> our production servers, whether linux, or freeBSD.  I should try the ports
> distribution and run my unit tests to perhaps build a more likely to be
> stable freeBSD installer for our work.

	That would be a good idea. Try that and let me know if your tests
work. People go to alot of trouble to make a port. It makes little sense
to re-invent the wheel especially with ports. If your tests fail let me
know where and how and I will see about getting the maintainer of the
offending port to ensure it works with your tests and application.

--
=============================================================================
-Chris Watson         (316) 326-3862 | FreeBSD Consultant, FreeBSD Geek 
Work:              scanner at jurai.net | Open Systems Inc., Wellington, Kansas
Home:  scanner at deceptively.shady.org | http://open-systems.net
=============================================================================
WINDOWS: "Where do you want to go today?"
LINUX: "Where do you want to go tomorrow?"
BSD: "Are you guys coming or what?"
=============================================================================
GNU = Gnu's Non-portable & Unstable
irc.openprojects.net #FreeBSD -Join the revolution!
ICQ: 20016186




From sbalu at nyx.net  Sat Jan 20 15:08:36 2001
From: sbalu at nyx.net (sarayu balu)
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 20:08:36 GMT
Subject: Neophyte looking for good books on Python
References: <94ak66$dra$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <94aulr$m1o$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <980023572.27042@iris.nyx.net>

laura_01 at my-deja.com wrote:
: Hi! The next edition of "Programming Python" by Mark Lutz is due out in
: early March,
: if you can wait about a month.

: Laura
: LLewin at oreilly.com

I have the old edition of "Programming Python" by Mark Lutz.
I do not know if Oreilly suggests that I pay the full price
for this new edition. These days, there seems to be a newer
edition so often, that we programmers have become suckers 
for the publishing company. Java is the classical example.

Oreilly should take the leadership in this area, in selling 
newer editions at substantial discounts for owners of older 
editions, or follow Bruce Eckel's model of putting the whole
book on the web. What do you folks think ?
-sb
-- 
Dr.Sarayu Balu,M.D.,FAAP			Tel.(802)888-2448
Ryder Brook Pediatrics,
P.O.Box 608, Morrisville, VT 05661.


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Wed Jan 10 08:02:47 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 14:02:47 +0100
Subject: mxTools (was Re: why no "do : until"?)
References: <Iw5jLKALa0W6Ewjq@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <Pine.LNX.4.30.0101092015010.5204-100000@fep132.fep.ru> <mailman.979066090.17094.python-list@python.org> <slrn95nml8.ij.amk@207-172-69-8.s262.tnt8.brd.va.dialup.rcn.com> <93hg4a0144i@news2.newsguy.com> <LRFzDVA+eFX6Ew4t@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <93hmk001c2v@news2.newsguy.com>

"Robin Becker" <robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:LRFzDVA+eFX6Ew4t at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk...
    [snip]
> I point out that there are several competing binary time formats

Sure, but that doesn't matter as much as the interface time/date
objects present on the _Python_ side of things.  Binary formats
internally used differ hugely between databases, too, but, who
cares?  Only the author of the DB-interface module -- they'll have
to handle the conversion; but, on the Python side of things, the
object can again behave uniformly.

> including the fairly ludicrous M$/Lotus 1900 is a leap year one. None of
> the 64bit ones has a hope of surviving too long in a world where
> nano/pico seconds are becoming important.

I suspect that the format limitations of widespread databases will
keep time-formats of 64 bits or fewer around for a long time; one
rarely needs picosecond-accuracy on the _same_ time objects that
need to encode dates across many millennia.

When one _does_ have such a need, the mxDateTime internal format
requires usage of _two_ objects -- a DateTime object for the
integral-second, and a RelativeDateTime one for the fraction
of a second.  If picosecond (10**-12) accuracy is required, the
typical 53-bits precision of a 'double' (internally used for
RelativeDateTime) has a few bits left over that can be used for
an integer-part, but not one of up to a full day (just a few
hours' worth).  Never having worked with over-nanosecond accuracy
myself, I'm more used to having bits to spare (keeping a date's
midnight in the absolute part, all the rest in the relative one;
I wasn't doing it in Python, though, but rather in a homebrewn
C struct).


Alex





From cfelling at iae.nl  Mon Jan 22 17:50:04 2001
From: cfelling at iae.nl (Carel Fellinger)
Date: 22 Jan 2001 23:50:04 +0100
Subject: Markov.py
References: <94eavq$5cl$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <94eulk$dduhj$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de> <3A6B7716.68A62115@home.com> <94h5he$9kl$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <94ides$6t2$1@animus.fel.iae.nl>

cpsoct at my-deja.com wrote:
...
> example of input and output would go a long way to explain how this
> makes a markov chain. Does it expect a table of possibilities? Where
> are they set? etc. etc.... like if i write an func i usually say
> briefly, what it does(ok, i know what a markov chain is), but more

well I don't, so please enlighten me: what's a markov chain?
then maybe I can check whether it does as it should, for what I'm
getting now seems like an endless loop. How is it working at your side?

-- 
groetjes, carel


From m.bless at gmx.de  Wed Jan 31 19:07:24 2001
From: m.bless at gmx.de (Martin Bless)
Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 00:07:24 GMT
Subject: Roadmap wanted: Python access to SPIRIT.OCX (Win9x)
References: <3a7b39da.39409649@news.muenster.de> <958i3j0mk4@news2.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <3a78a445.7210135@news.muenster.de>

It's past midnight - but it works!!!!!!!
It was all there, and it's easy once you know what to to.
makepy.py produced spirit.py, and

import win32com, spirit
brick = win32com.client.Dispatch('SPIRIT.SpiritCtrl.1')

instantiates the object. And now I can say brick.On((0,1,3)) to get
three motors going. Absolutely fascinating. IMHO, beats the proposed
visual basic solutions by far. Of course I haven't understood a bit of
the inner workings of makepy - the good news is, I obviously don't
have to at the moment. That's real magic! I'd like to express my
respect. Makepy does a marvellous job.

It took me some time to discover this little hint in the generated
spirit.py:

# This CoClass is known by the name 'SPIRIT.SpiritCtrl.1'

>Not me (another fascinating timesink being the LAST thing I
>need:-) but I do understand why one would!-)

Oh yes oh yes, it seems it has hit ME. Hope I can save myself ...

Still very excited
Martin


From sholden at holdenweb.com  Wed Jan 17 22:51:00 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 22:51:00 -0500
Subject: Python FTP module
References: <MPG.14d0f6f1f4045a62989682@news.syd.connect.com.au>
Message-ID: <BOt96.7565$CW.38506@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>

"Realware Systems" <derek at realware.com.au> wrote in message
news:MPG.14d0f6f1f4045a62989682 at news.syd.connect.com.au...
> I am sure there is a python FTP module but I don't know where it is or
> what it is called. Any ideas?
>
> TIA
> Derek
>
The Python community being as imaginative in its naming scheme as any
programming group in the world, I think you might find you're looking for
ftplib. Or are you looking for a server? In that case, there's a minimalist
FTP server at

    http://n.ethz.ch/student/amreinm/python/pyFTPdrop.py

which is in the public domain.

and-httplib-does-http-too-ly y'rs  - steve




From jasonic at nomadicsltd.com  Thu Jan 11 00:18:11 2001
From: jasonic at nomadicsltd.com (Jason Cunliffe)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 00:18:11 -0500
Subject: HTML embeded with python
References: <MPG.14c7bd1a9ff02ee1989689@news.hutch.com.au>
Message-ID: <t5qga871ee9jad@corp.supernews.com>

Hi Derek,

Well (the.__BIG__.one = 'Zope')

http://www.zope.org

New much awaitd/improved version 2.3.x now emerging fom CVS and O'Reilly
book soon out [being printed now] will allow a lot of very cool Python in
web pages..

But free download now of current 2.2.5 will keep you well occupied.
http://www.zope.org/Products/Zope/2.2.5

Zope is free, object-oriented, cross-platfrom web applciation development
system mostly in Python and using Python modules and syntax extensively.. an
exapnding universe and a busy community travelling along with it..

imho: well worth the learning curve. It's going to be a very interesting
year.

good luck1

- Jason
___________________________________________________________
Jason CUNLIFFE = NOMADICS['Interactive Art and Technology']

Derek Lavine <derek at realware.com.au> wrote in message
news:MPG.14c7bd1a9ff02ee1989689 at news.hutch.com.au...
> Hi all,
>
> I am very new to python, in fact I have only just picked up my first
> book. I am thinking of using python for web apps and was just wondering
> if there are any modules out there that make it possible to embed python
> in the HTML pages so that one can easily build web pages based on the
> result of database queries and things like that.
>
> I have used coldFusion quite a bit and it of course makes this sort of
> thing very easy. I know there are solutions of this type in perl but
> since I am keen to use python in this context (initially as a means to
> get acquainted with the language) I thought I would ask them that are in
> the know.
>
> Thanks for any pointers or suggestions
>
> Derek




From gregor at mediasupervision.de  Mon Jan 29 10:09:30 2001
From: gregor at mediasupervision.de (Gregor Hoffleit)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 16:09:30 +0100
Subject: Books
In-Reply-To: <3a757f33$1@netnews.web.de>; from volker.jahns@web.de on Mon, Jan 29, 2001 at 03:46:51PM +0200
References: <3a757ac1$1@netnews.web.de> <hhfd6.6061$Uo2.20161@newsfeed.slurp.net> <3a757f33$1@netnews.web.de>
Message-ID: <20010129160930.D1166@mediasupervision.de>

On Mon, Jan 29, 2001 at 03:46:51PM +0200, Volker Jahns wrote:
> >search for PYTHON and you will have greater success.
> >
> Thanks, but the pyhton.org should lern PHP... .-)
> 
> 
> Warning: fopen("counter.txt","w") - ???? ?????? in 
> /usr/local/apache/htdocs/pyhton/index.php on line 28

I guess PHP is much easier to use, since it has only three letters... ;-)

    Gregor

    
PS: In case you still haven't found the language site:

    http://www.python.org/

A quick look at the bottom of each mail should have revealed the address,
too:



From herb at dynamic-solutions.nospam.com  Thu Jan  4 04:16:52 2001
From: herb at dynamic-solutions.nospam.com (Herb Lainchbury)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 01:16:52 -0800
Subject: Configuring PWS for Python ASP Scripting
Message-ID: <978599793.885104@news.islandnet.com>

Could someone direct me to the steps required to configure PWS so I can use
python scripts in my ASP pages?  I want to be able to write .asp files of
the form:

<html>
<%@ Language=Python %>
<%
print 'Hello from Python'
%>

but when I do this I get the error message:

Active Server Pages error 'ASP 0129'

Unknown scripting language

/index.asp, line 5

The scripting language 'Python' is not found on the server.

Thanks.








From fredrik at effbot.org  Mon Jan  1 07:08:14 2001
From: fredrik at effbot.org (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Mon, 01 Jan 2001 12:08:14 GMT
Subject: Recursive inner function... How?
References: <3A4FA0EF.BF94F4BD@uswest.net>
Message-ID: <Oq_36.3045$Qb7.341122@newsb.telia.net>

Bjorn Pettersen wrote:
> however, in 2.0 that gives an "UnboundLocalError: Local variable 'inner'
> referenced before assignment".

in this case, the assignment is done by "def":

>     def outer():
>         def inner(inner=inner <- reference):
>             inner()
>         <- assignment statement ends here
>         inner()
>
>     outer()
>

> Please tell me I'm doing something wrong?

you're trying to use recursive inner functions ;-)

the easiest fix is to do as Guido intended, and move
"inner" to the global scope.  you can either move the
entire function to the right place, or cheat:

    def outer():
        global inner
        def inner():
            inner()
        inner()

    outer()

(iirc, there's a FAQ entry with more info on this, but the
entire FAQ seems to have disappeared.  a ++Y2K bug?)

btw, also see:
http://python.sourceforge.net/peps/pep-0227.html

</F>




From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sun Jan 14 05:20:54 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 11:20:54 +0100
Subject: A small suggestion for Python
References: <3A5F27F7.30268D9A@erols.com> <G74HuE.AGn.0.sinope@news.jtan.com> <93qpbc02n4a@news1.newsguy.com> <G7595o.HKE.0.sinope@news.jtan.com>
Message-ID: <93rumc01013@news1.newsguy.com>

"Matt Dunford" <kno at jtan.com> wrote in message
news:G7595o.HKE.0.sinope at news.jtan.com...
> "Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com> writes:
>
> >"Matt Dunford" <kno at jtan.com> wrote in message
> >news:G74HuE.AGn.0.sinope at news.jtan.com...
> >    [snip]
> >> Although, I wouldn't mind having a builtin method that returns a sorted
> >> array.  Then we could do something like this:
> >>
> >> dict = { 'this' : 1, 'that' : 2 }
> >> for key in dict.keys().sort():
> >> print key
>
> >And instead we have to do
>
> >    for key in return_sorted(dict.keys()):
> >        print key
>
> >Is it that much of a problem...?  return_sorted's pretty trivial too:
>
> >def return_sorted(alist):
> >    alist.sort()
> >    return alist
>
> I have no problem with it.  But just to be pendantic, your return_sorted
def
> doesn't do what I'm trying to get at.  I'm thinking more along the lines
of
>
> def return_sorted(alist):
>     import copy
>     sorted = copy.copy(alist)
>     sorted.sort()
>     return sorted

I would call this return_sorted_copy.  It's not needed, often, and in
particular
it is not for the idiom you mentioned -- why make a totally needless copy of
the temporary list that .keys returns?  I'm anything but a speed freak, but
I
don't normally copy data just for the fun of it:-).


Alex





From danielk at aracnet.com  Tue Jan  2 01:32:23 2001
From: danielk at aracnet.com (Daniel Klein)
Date: Mon, 01 Jan 2001 22:32:23 -0800
Subject: Equivalent of Java 'throws'
Message-ID: <fos25t4doa37drmctilvnml351l30bbub4@4ax.com>

Here's another 'is there a Pythonic way to do this' question...

In Java, you can specify a 'throws' to tell a client using your
methods of your class that they must have an exception handler. This
appears to be checked when the client is compiled.

 I've read thru the reference materials concerning exceptions and this
one's got me stumped.  Is there any way in Python to do this? I
suspect there isn't since Python is dynamically typed.

If there is, please point me to this; if not, that's ok too, I'll just
document the api to my class appropriately.

Thanks from a new Python convert,

Daniel Klein
Portland, OR USA


From skip at mojam.com  Thu Jan 18 09:55:32 2001
From: skip at mojam.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 08:55:32 -0600 (CST)
Subject: what happens when cookies get too big?
Message-ID: <14951.996.736232.930324@beluga.mojam.com>

This isn't really a Python question, but since I'm using Python to implement
things, I figured perhaps I could sneak this in.

What happens when cookies get too big?  Do browsers tend to barf, toss out
the cookie, truncate it, or something else I've not anticipated?  RFC 2109
says oversize cookies (double-stuff?) must be discarded, but I wonder if all
browsers adhere to that requirement.  I'm storing a cookie that represents a
list of names.  It's zlib compressed and base64 encoded, so I can store
quite a few names.

Thanks,

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at mojam.com)
Support the Mojam.com Affiliates Program: http://www.mojam.com/affl/
(847)971-7098



From mwh21 at cam.ac.uk  Thu Jan 25 15:52:50 2001
From: mwh21 at cam.ac.uk (Michael Hudson)
Date: 25 Jan 2001 20:52:50 +0000
Subject: SourceForge problems
References: <mailman.980419557.4233.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m3zogfxskd.fsf@atrus.jesus.cam.ac.uk>

"Tim Peters" <tim.one at home.com> writes:

> [Tim, yesterday]
> > According to http://sourceforge.net/ today,
> >    Hosted Projects:   14,366
> >    Registered Users: 110,619
> 
> [A.M. Kuchling, today]
> > Oof!  When I was fiddling with patches tonight, the registered users
> > number was exactly 111,000.  400 new users a day isn't too shabby...
> 
> Worse (better? depends on your POV ...), the number of registered projects
> has bumped to 14,531.  Since each new project takes some manual work on
> their end, I bet they're backlogged bigtime.  Someone should suggest that
> they only accept new Python projects.

I've been waiting until they work out which end of the power cable
goes in the mains[1] before submitting mine...

Cheers,
M.

[1] This is too harsh.  Oh well.

-- 
  Java sucks. [...] Java on TV set top boxes will suck so hard it
  might well inhale people from off  their sofa until their heads 
  get wedged in the card slots.              --- Jon Rabone, ucam.chat


From bakaikoa at my-deja.com  Fri Jan  5 05:27:59 2001
From: bakaikoa at my-deja.com (bakaikoa at my-deja.com)
Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 10:27:59 GMT
Subject: Tkinter and option database
Message-ID: <9347jc$6iu$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

I cannot manage to use the option database in the way I used to do
with Tcl/Tk. In particular I do not see how to use the feature of
assigning options to named widgets. This was done in a simple way
in Tk by using the name of the widget at creation time. Tkinter is
automatically assigning a random name to each widget that is created.

Example:
in Tk
> option readfile greeting.res
>
> set message [ option get . greemsg Spanish ]
>
> set labtit  [ label .appTitle ]
> set labmsg  [ label .greetMsg -text $message ]

worked fine with file 'greeting.res':
> *appTitle.text: Saludo
> *greemsg:       hola

With Python/Tkinter I get the 'greemsg' all right but not the
application title:

> import Tkinter as Tk
>
> root = Tk.Tk()
>
> root.option_readfile('greeting.res')
>
> message = root.option_get('greemsg','French')
>
> labtit = Tk.Label()
> labmsg = Tk.Label(text=message)

Any hint, do you know of a way of assigning a Tk name
to a widget?

Thanks,

Bixente


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Mon Jan  8 11:46:13 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 17:46:13 +0100
Subject: Web devel with python. Whats the best route?
References: <mailman.978910629.6814.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <93cqvi0191h@news1.newsguy.com>

"Chris Watson" <chris at voodooland.net> wrote in message
news:mailman.978910629.6814.python-list at python.org...
>
> I'm about to start converting the small fool proof (ha ha) admin
> system I have been working from console based to web based. What is the
> easiest way to go about integrating python into apache so I can start
> web'izing this app? mod_python, mod_snake, PyApache?

CGI.  Really.  Your admin system doesn't look like the kind of thing that
will be continuously getting multiple hits a second, making CGI overhead
a problem.  If that is the case, CGI is easiest.  *Do the simplest thing
that can possibly work*!

FastCGI appears to be a close second, with potentially better performance,
but lacking at least one CGI advantage -- the fact that each transaction
is run quite separately, well-isolated from the others, so you'll never
have any worries about resource-leaks &c... your OS will ensure proper
cleanup after each hit is processed, and you'll live happily ever after.

I suspect that you'll be using FreeBSD (to be true to your sig:-) and
so process startup costs are limited (they'd be heavier on Win32 -- dunno
about how FreeBSD compares to Linux or other Unix variants, but I suspect
it's at least as good, right?-) AND your OS is solid and will ensure
fully reliable cleanup in each case.  Capitalize on your advantages -- go
CGI, and avoid most difficulties.

"Session continuity" will have to be provided via cookies, but that's
not really all that hard -- the amount of state you need to save and
restore between hits is most likely limited anyway (making it acceptable
for cookie-residence), or else you can always use appropriate shelve
files (presumably relying on gdbm, whihc is OK) and just cookie the
shelve-access keys (that might impact scalability IF you were close to
the hit-per-second mark, but, are you _really_ worried about such loads?).


Everybody & their cousin will presumably be suggesting very-high-tech,
be-the-first-on-your block kinds of whiz-bang solutions, which ARE quite
all right when needed, but may not be an optimal match for most of the
low- to moderate-hits web-enabled solutions one _typically_ meets (and,
judging from the brief description of your application's purpose that
you supply, your case might be such a 'typical' one...?) -- so, I just
thought I'd put in a reminder that simpler, "more rudimental" approaches
are still perfectly viable, and their very simplicity may recommend them
over the more advanced ones in many cases.  Then again, maybe I'm simply
being a dinosaur on this specific theme!-)


Alex





From spahievi at vega.bg  Mon Jan 29 16:14:51 2001
From: spahievi at vega.bg (Niki Spahiev)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 23:14:51 +0200
Subject: curly-brace-aphobic?
In-Reply-To: <20010129123030.D16071@harmony.cs.rit.edu>
References: <3A74EBD6.3C87FD15@seebelow.org>
 <slrn97a9fu.7sf.clgonsal@keeshah.penguinpowered.com>
 <3A757FBE.E54C5ECD@seebelow.org> <20010129123030.D16071@harmony.cs.rit.edu>
Message-ID: <7711310076.20010129231451@vega.bg>

29.1.2001, 19:30:30, D-Man wrote:

DM> On Mon, Jan 29, 2001 at 08:35:42AM -0600, Grant Griffin wrote:
DM> | C.Laurence Gonsalves wrote:
| >> 
DM> | ...
| >> I'm not sure why you need to be reminded whether something is a sequence
| >> or a dictionary.
DM> | 
DM> | I guess it's because sequences and dictionaries are conceptually very
DM> | different.  (You can tell, because we have a special word just to

DM> I'm not sure how different they are conceptually.  A dictionary is a
DM> collection (sequence) of data that is indexed by arbitrary keys.  A
DM> list is a collection (sequence) of data that is indexed by integers
DM> only.  It seems to me that a list is a special case of a dictionary.
DM> How about classes that implement __getitem__?  They perform the same
DM> operation, just according to their own rules.  If the class is written
DM> to follow the same rules a dictionary or a list follows, but do some
DM> extra magic on the side, it could be used in place of the
DM> dictionary/list without any modification to the client code.

DM> I think that the same syntax is used because they are the same
DM> operation, just slightly different restrictions/rules.

I often switch my implementations from using list to dicts and
vice versa. It helps that both use [] for indexing. I wish they share
more e.g. list.keys() instead of range(len(list)), list.values()
instead of map( None, .... )

-- 
Best regards,
 Niki Spahiev





From DOUGS at oceanic.com  Sat Jan 20 20:37:17 2001
From: DOUGS at oceanic.com (Doug Stanfield)
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 15:37:17 -1000
Subject: [Q] telnetlib
Message-ID: <8457258D741DD411BD3D0050DA62365907A566@huina.oceanic.com>

Just a guess, but you may not be following exactly the sequence of strings
are exchanged when you telnet to this device.  Try to manually log in and
copy the session to a followup.

-Doug-

> -----Original Message-----
> From: yoonseo at my-deja.com [mailto:yoonseo at my-deja.com]
> Sent: Friday, January 19, 2001 10:01 AM
> To: python-list at python.org
> Subject: [Q] telnetlib
> 
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I am trying to run commands on a remote computer using Python.
> I think that using 'telnetlib' is the way to go, but I have trouble.
> The following is the script that I wrote but it stops before
> it reaches prompt, that is after 'TERM = (vt100) '.
> Can somebody tell me what is wrong?
> 
> Thanks in advance
> 
> sy
> 
> 
> --------------------------------------
> import telnetlib
> 
> HOST = 'host_name'
> user = 'user_name'
> pwd  = 'my_password'
> 
> tn = telnetlib.Telnet(HOST)
> 
> print tn.read_until('login: ')
> tn.write(user+'\n')
> 
> print tn.read_until('Password:')
> tn.write(pwd+'\n')
> 
> print tn.read_until('TERM = (vt100) ')
> tn.write('\n')
> 
> print tn.read_until('% ')
> tn.write('ls\n')
> 
> print tn.read_until('% ')
> tn.write('exit\n')
> 
> print tn.read_all()
> --------------------------------------
> 
> 
> Sent via Deja.com
> http://www.deja.com/
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 



From one61803 at my-deja.com  Fri Jan  5 22:44:40 2001
From: one61803 at my-deja.com (one61803 at my-deja.com)
Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2001 03:44:40 GMT
Subject: Question about IDLE
Message-ID: <9364b7$qse$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

Hi,

I've been trying out the IDLE IDE for python and the fonts it uses are
extremely ugly. I'm running a stock Mandrake 7.2 system with Python 1.5.2.
Basically, the fixed font that Tkinter uses is completely distorted (and I
think this affects all Tk widgets on my system). I've tried to look at the
code for IDLE but while there is place in the program for choosing fonts
under Windows, no such place is defined under Linux.

Does anyone else have this problem? If so, how were you able to solve it?

Thanks

Robert


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From rcstadheim at scarabweb.com  Sat Jan 13 14:09:46 2001
From: rcstadheim at scarabweb.com (RCS)
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 20:09:46 +0100
Subject: SV: Python 1.5.2/2.0  C extension type differences
References: <Fg086.1743$wt2.6000@news1.oke.nextra.no> <Ry086.5866$Qb7.841107@newsb.telia.net>
Message-ID: <RX186.1827$wt2.7731@news1.oke.nextra.no>

That fixed it!
Thank you very much!

Rolf C Stadheim

Fredrik Lundh <fredrik at effbot.org> skrev i
meldingsnyheter:Ry086.5866$Qb7.841107 at newsb.telia.net...
> Rolf Stadheim also forgot to look in the FAQ:
> > error C2099: initializer is not a constant,
> >
> > Any comments/hints/help greatly appreciated!!!!
>
> it's a compiler/platform specific problem.  see FAQ entry 3.24
> for an explanation and two possible work-arounds:
>
>     http://www.python.org/doc/FAQ.html#3.24
>     3.24 "Initializer not a constant" while building DLL on
>     MS-Windows
>
> Cheers /F
>
>




From kmbotha at netinfo.ubc.ca  Wed Jan 24 12:04:50 2001
From: kmbotha at netinfo.ubc.ca (Kris Botha)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 17:04:50 GMT
Subject: Python: what's the best way to copy files on a LAN?
Message-ID: <3a6f0af0.272878461@news.interchange.ubc.ca>

I mean security-wise. I'd like to use FTPLIB but am hesitant about the
security issues involved in using that plain-text protocol.

Thanks


~~====----..----====~~
        Kris Botha



From tbrown at choice.net  Mon Jan 29 01:07:07 2001
From: tbrown at choice.net (TIMOTHY BROWN)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 01:07:07 -0500
Subject: Newbie MSAccess & Python
Message-ID: <3a75072d$0$1520$6146947b@news.choice.net>

Hi,
I need to automate printing some access and crystal reports, basically
loading the mdb and/or report, sending a username/password and printing.

Finding information on OLE objects and how to manipulate them has been
the problem.  Can anyone recommend a good reference? Maybe there is a
better tool?  (But Python looks cool.)

Thanks,

Tim Brown
tbrown at choice.net




From greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz  Tue Jan 23 19:53:15 2001
From: greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (Greg Ewing)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 13:53:15 +1300
Subject: Solution to integrate(f) raises ??? (Re: How do I know all thrown 
 exceptions of a function)?
References: <mailman.980206644.31124.python-list@python.org> <94imre$7dd$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <3A6E277B.A6B66221@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz>

Andrew Dalke wrote:
> 
> def integrate(func, x_min, x_max):
>   ...
>   will compute func(x) for several values of x between [x_min, x_max]
>   ...
> 
> What exceptions does "integrate" throw, given that "func" can
> throw anything?

I have an answer to this! It requires the language to have
nested procedures, and to allow passing of nested procedures
as parameters (a la Pascal). Then, by introducing the rule:

  * If a procedure raises an exception which is not declared
    in that procedure's signature, it propagates _lexically_
    outwards to a procedure which does declare it.

Here's an example using a hypothetical pseudo-Pascal which
has exception handling:

-----

function integrate(function f(x: real): real; lo,hi: real): real
  raises MathError;
begin
...
end;

function lookup_cache(x: real; var y: real): boolean
  raises DiskError;
begin
...
end;

function integrate_g: real
  raises MathError, DiskError;

  function g(x: real): real 
    raises MathError;
  var 
    y: real;
  begin
    if not lookup_cache(x, y) then {any DiskError raised in here will
propagate}
      y := do_evaluation(x);       {out to integrate_g}
    g := y;
  end;

begin
  integrate(g, 0.0, 1.0);
end;

procedure main;
begin
  try
    integrate_g;
  except MathError do
    writeln('Math error!');
  except DiskError do
    writeln('Disk error!');
  end;
end;

-----

As you can see, this allows you to declare integrate() in the
natural way, while not restricting in any way what exceptions
can be raised in the function being integrated. In g(), it's
legal to call lookup_cache() which can raise DiskError, even
though g() doesn't declare it, because g() is nested inside
another function which does declare it.

How to apply this to Python? It would have to wait until we
have nested lexical scoping. Then, when an exception is raised,
it should be a simple matter to search up the static chain for
the frame of a function which has declared that it's willing to
raise that exception, and propagate it dynamically from there
to its caller. Do the same for the caller, etc., until baked.

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept, University of Canterbury,	  
Christchurch, New Zealand
To get my email address, please visit my web page:	  
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg


From phd at phd.pp.ru  Sat Jan 20 06:45:18 2001
From: phd at phd.pp.ru (Oleg Broytmann)
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 14:45:18 +0300 (MSK)
Subject: Is Python2C dead?
In-Reply-To: <3A689E37.639BB513@schlund.de>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0101201444240.13495-100000@fep132.fep.ru>

On Fri, 19 Jan 2001, Carsten Gaebler wrote:
> I was wondering where Python2C has gone.
> http://lima.mudlib.org/~rassilon/p2c/ doesn't exist anymore. Any clues?

http://lima.mudlib.org/~rassilon/p2c/
       ^^^^ -> www:
http://www.mudlib.org/~rassilon/p2c/

   But it holds old version. Probably the development stopped :(

Oleg.
----
     Oleg Broytmann            http://phd.pp.ru/            phd at phd.pp.ru
           Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN.




From dsh8290 at rit.edu  Fri Jan 19 12:44:59 2001
From: dsh8290 at rit.edu (D-Man)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 12:44:59 -0500
Subject: python compiled to native in less than a year?
In-Reply-To: <3A67341D.D5022902@businesscollaborator.com>; from paul.robinson@businesscollaborator.com on Thu, Jan 18, 2001 at 06:21:17PM +0000
References: <kcF86.6006$J%.594457@news.flash.net> <Pine.GSO.4.21.0101151106200.7702-100000@z.glue.umd.edu> <8pF86.6015$J%.595435@news.flash.net> <0luc6toovfccbqspkvc0dkqkuc5dck7u51@4ax.com> <3A67341D.D5022902@businesscollaborator.com>
Message-ID: <20010119124459.F4478@harmony.cs.rit.edu>

On Thu, Jan 18, 2001 at 06:21:17PM +0000, Paul Robinson wrote:
| 
[snipp]
| .NET runtime. This, IIRC, is similar to what Python2C does, Python -> C
| with calls to C api.
| 

This is what jythonc does.  It spits out a Java class (source) that
consists of calls to the interpreter runtime.  Your own Java compiler
is what actually creates the byte-codes, and the runtime (jython.jar)
is still needed to actually run your "Python as Java bytecode" stuff.

Aside from a potential performance degradation (I haven't tested it,
but ...) it's not such a bad design.  It follows the KISS prinicple.
(ie. don't re-invent python's operations to fit the Java object model,
instead just interpreter the instructions as normal)

-D

BTW,  I've heard several references to C# on this list, with a high
concentration on this thread.  Where can I find some sort of (short)
docs that describe what C# is?  (an intro or overview type of thing)



From wgeuens at pandora.be  Mon Jan  1 11:52:06 2001
From: wgeuens at pandora.be (Werner Geuens)
Date: Mon, 01 Jan 2001 16:52:06 GMT
Subject: STRPTIME method missing from TIME class, in win32 ?
Message-ID: <WA246.38186$MA1.947625@afrodite.telenet-ops.be>

A very basic method, STRPTIME, seem to be missing from the Win32
distributions. Both 1.5.2 and 2.0 lack this method. A bit weird, considering
an ill supported platform such as OS/2 has the method in it's 1.5.x release.

The tutorials mensions "This function may not be defined on all platforms.".

Can someone give me a sane explanation WHY ?


Werner Geuens
email: wgeuens at pandora.be







From dale at out-think.NOSPAMco.uk  Tue Jan 30 21:24:55 2001
From: dale at out-think.NOSPAMco.uk (Dale Strickland-Clark)
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 02:24:55 +0000
Subject: Python 2.1 and Unicode
Message-ID: <hpse7tc1h31hosvt4ojeu419c531mm76ij@4ax.com>

I've just been catching up with the new 2.1 release and there's lots of nice stuff in there.

However, I was disapointed not to find any improvements to the way Unicode is handled.

Currently we are having to use constructs such as this all over the place when dealing with values
from international databases:

	if type(val) == types.UnicodeType:
		val = val.encode('Latin-1', 'ignore')
	else:
		val = str(val)

And it gets even more ugly when lists of values are handled.

encode() blows if you give it an integer and str() blows if it doesn't like the Unicode.

On top of that, print needs to default to rugged handling of Unicode and not raise an exception.
Inserting print statements is normally the quickest way to gather debugging info but it becomes a
big problem when dealing with Unicode, requiring code like that above.

If you need to print multiple values or lists of Unicode items - well forget it.

We need two important features:

1. A print command that defaults to ignoring Unicode conversion errors - or at least has the option
to do so.
2. A function, such as str() that converts *anything* to an ASCII string - ignoring Unicode errors.

Thanks
--
Dale Strickland-Clark
Out-Think Ltd
Business Technology Consultants


From c.evans at clear.net.nz  Fri Jan 26 17:45:30 2001
From: c.evans at clear.net.nz (Carey Evans)
Date: 27 Jan 2001 11:45:30 +1300
Subject: crypt module for windows? - fcrypt.py
References: <4cla6.2291$Jw.511062@typhoon2.ba-dsg.net>
	<3A6C5A3C.AD4BD7C@channing.harvard.edu>
Message-ID: <871ytq53w5.fsf@psyche.dnsalias.org>

Ross Lazarus <rerla at channing.harvard.edu> writes:

> I spent some more time with google and found
> http://home.clear.net.nz/pages/c.evans/sw/
> which has a link to fcrypt.py - it does exactly what's needed and is
> pure python - probably slower than a dll wrapper but it's fine for what
> I need. 

Definitely slower - in my tests, the Python binding to glibc's crypt()
function is more than 25 times as fast as my fcrypt.py.  This
shouldn't be a problem unless you want to crack passwords, though.

-- 
	 Carey Evans  http://home.clear.net.nz/pages/c.evans/

  "May not be representative of the experience of actual customers."


From scarblac at pino.selwerd.nl  Mon Jan  1 16:18:53 2001
From: scarblac at pino.selwerd.nl (Remco Gerlich)
Date: 1 Jan 2001 21:18:53 GMT
Subject: Recursion
References: <mailman.978382742.16948.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrn951srp.o20.scarblac@pino.selwerd.nl>

Bob Calco <rcalco at cortechs.com> wrote in comp.lang.python:
> Anyone:
> 
> I noticed the following while dabbling in Perl, Ruby and Python recently.
> Take your standard factorial implementation, a la:
> 
> PYTHON
> ======
> import sys
> 
> def factor(n):
>   if n == 1:
>     return 1
>   else:
>     return n*factor(n-1)
> 
> print factor(int(sys.argv[1]))

(snip)

> The highest value for n you can run in Python is 12; after that you get
> overflow error messages. In Perl, the largest value is 170 (after which you
> get 1.#INF for an answer). In Ruby, you can input a value as high as 763
> before you get a SystemStackError (stack level too deep) error.


I don't have time to answer your other questions, but note that this is a
very naive implementation. For huge numbers, Python provides long integers
that can grow to arbitrary length. '1L' is the long integer 1. So if you
change it to

def factor(n):
   if n==1:
      return 1L
   else:
      return n*factor(n-1)

It works way better. It now works up to 999 before you walk into the builtin
recursion limit. Changing to a simple non-recursive version is still a lot
better:

def factor(N):
   n = 1L
   for i in xrange(1,N+1):
      n *= i
   return n

And now the limit is simply your memory, you need enough to hold all the
digits (and some patience).

Using oversimplified code for benchmarks isn't very useful.

> I'm trying to decide which of these languages to embed in my application or
> at the very least require in the user environment. I like all of them, and I
> lean toward Python because it's much cleaner than Perl and more mature than
> Ruby and Mark Hammond's Win32 extenstion fully supports COM on Win32, which
> would make it a very useful framework for prototyping our COM objects and
> developing our own test suites to exercise them when they are implemented in
> C++. But I was surprised to find such a difference when testing each
> language's support for recursion.

Note that the limit you found had to do with the size of integers mostly,
not with recursion.

I *think* Stackless Python has no recursion limit since it doesn't use the C
stack, but I don't know for sure.

-- 
Remco Gerlich


From victor at prodigy.net  Tue Jan 16 17:31:06 2001
From: victor at prodigy.net (Victor Muslin)
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 22:31:06 GMT
Subject: How to call a stored procedure?
Message-ID: <3a64c959.600874890@localhost>

I am using Python 1.5.2 on WindowsNT.

I have a stored procedure defined in Oracle:

CREATE OR REPLACE PROCEDURE DELETE_SERVER
(
        SERVER_ID_ARG   IN NUMBER
)
AS
BEGIN
        DELETE FROM SERVER WHERE SERVER_ID = SERVER_ID_ARG;
COMMIT;
END DELETE_SERVER;
/

Calling it from SQLPLUS works file:

	SQL> execute delete_server(1);

However when I try calling it from Python it gives me an error. Here's
the Python program:

import dbi, odbc
import sys
cs = 'db/user/password'

dbconn = odbc.odbc(cs)
cur = dbconn.cursor()
cur.execute("execute vmuslin.delete_adserver(3)");


The error I get is:

Traceback (innermost last):
  File "E:\dev\dclk\eng\src\apps\ADMIN_~1\xx.py", line 7, in ?
    cur.execute("execute vmuslin.delete_adserver(3)");
dbi.program-error: [Microsoft][ODBC driver for
Oracle][Oracle]ORA-00900: invalid SQL statement in EXEC

Is it not possible to call stored procedures from Python?


From sholden at holdenweb.com  Wed Jan  3 02:07:04 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2001 02:07:04 -0500
Subject: One Python 2.1 idea
References: <mailman.977771949.17911.python-list@python.org> <9292tn$jka$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <929n9c013m3@news1.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <2eA46.11268$uq.460401@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>

Alex Martelli <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:929n9c013m3 at news1.newsguy.com...
> <rturpin at my-deja.com> wrote in message news:9292tn$jka$1 at nnrp1.deja.com...
>     [snip]
> > Second, a question. Consider the invocation of a method,
> > such as:
> >
> >     x.foo()
> >
> > Does this really cause the lookup of the string "foo"
> > in x's namespace dictionary? The first time? Every time?
>
> Yes, and yes.  No implicit caching.
>
> > Is this also the case when data members are accessed?
>
> Yes once more.
>
>
> Alex
>
Please tell me it at least interns the names ...

regards
 Steve






From dag at orion.no  Mon Jan 22 06:28:43 2001
From: dag at orion.no (Dag Sunde)
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 11:28:43 GMT
Subject: What does Python do
References: <94gmeu$4fc$1@sooner.brightok.net> <t1Sa6.4569$Yv.544288@juliett.dax.net> <94gvv5$7mo$1@sooner.brightok.net>
Message-ID: <LPUa6.4598$Yv.546853@juliett.dax.net>

I think Python is _very well suited as a
first language...

I wish I had it around when I set out to
change my mind from procedural to OO programming...

Keep on, and good luck...

Dag.

"Dead Dan" <danielhill at brightok.net> wrote in message
news:94gvv5$7mo$1 at sooner.brightok.net...
>
> Dag,
>
> Thanks, Im just begining in programming and I have had a few suggestiond
for
> Python. What do you think of it as a first lang, well other HTML. I guess
> that dont count
>
> Dan
>
>




From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sun Jan 28 12:50:30 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 18:50:30 +0100
Subject: biggner question
References: <952951$m4r1@news.qualitynet.net>
Message-ID: <951m7d02ut7@news2.newsguy.com>

"baasad" <baasad at qualitynet.net> wrote in message
news:952951$m4r1 at news.qualitynet.net...
> how can I read from the command line

The arguments passed to the command line when a Python script is
run are accessible as a list, named argv, in standard module sys
(which you'll need to import, of course).  The 0-th of these is the
name of the script itself.

For example, this script echoes its arguments, if any, to standard
output:

import sys
for arg in sys.argv[1:]:
    print arg,
print

If you save it as echo.py and run

C:\> python.exe echo.py un deux trois

it will output

un deux trois


> also how can I read users input :)

There are two built-in functions for that (nothing needs to be
imported), named input and raw_input.  Each takes an
optional argument (a string with which to prompt the user
for input) and returns user-input.  The input function
expects that the user will type in a Python expression, and
uses the built-in function eval to compile and run that
expression; it will return its result, or raise an exception
in case of syntax-error &c.  raw_input is simpler and more
general: it just returns the string that the user did write,
shorn of the terminating newline.  raw_input is what you
most often want.


Alex





From scarblac at pino.selwerd.nl  Mon Jan 29 20:42:11 2001
From: scarblac at pino.selwerd.nl (Remco Gerlich)
Date: 30 Jan 2001 01:42:11 GMT
Subject: curly-brace-aphobic?
References: <3A74EBD6.3C87FD15@seebelow.org> <slrn97a9fu.7sf.clgonsal@keeshah.penguinpowered.com> <slrn97bicg.8va.quinn@bolivar.ugcs.caltech.edu> <VQld6.131650$ge4.48028897@news2.rdc2.tx.home.com>
Message-ID: <slrn97c6ih.bjo.scarblac@pino.selwerd.nl>

Rainer Deyke <root at rainerdeyke.com> wrote in comp.lang.python:
> None of these is really a compelling reason for using '[]' instead of '()'
> for access.  There is no efficiency difference in Python because both are
> implemented as (hidden) method calls, and languages like C++ allow 'f(5) =
> 5;'.  Is there any good reason for function calls to use a different syntax
> than mapping/sequence element access?

For one thing, it's possible to have an object that you can do both things
on, so the syntax should be different.

class Graph:
   def __getitem__(self, i):
      print "This column represents 30% of the population"
   def __call__(self, i):
      print "This column represents 50% *of the population!*"
      
x = Graph()
x[3]
x(3)

-- 
Remco Gerlich


From moshez at zadka.site.co.il  Sat Jan 27 14:30:55 2001
From: moshez at zadka.site.co.il (Moshe Zadka)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 21:30:55 +0200 (IST)
Subject: Interested in a Crypto-SIG?
In-Reply-To: <3A731F26.15461A27@stroeder.com>
References: <3A731F26.15461A27@stroeder.com>, <3A72C8A3.C4B4D69A@stroeder.com> <slrn97650f.i1.amk@mira.erols.com>
Message-ID: <20010127193055.5CD1EA840@darjeeling.zadka.site.co.il>

On Sat, 27 Jan 2001, <michael at stroeder.com> wrote:

> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: Welcome to python-crypto
> Date: 27 Jan 2001 18:58:49 -0000
> From: python-crypto Moderator <python-crypto-owner at yahoogroups.com>
> [..]
> <P>The list is hosted inside the US, as are its archives, so
> to avoid falling afoul of the US export restrictions, it's
> recommended that postings not contain complete programs or modules. 
> A few lines of code, for illustrating a point or a bug, are probably
> OK.  Patches to existing crypto code falls in a grey area; it's best
> to mail them to the software's maintainer. 
> -------- Original Message --------
> 
> This does not attract me very much.

The python.org servers are also inside the US, and are subject to 
the same restrictions.
-- 
Moshe Zadka <sig at zadka.site.co.il>
This is a signature anti-virus. 
Please stop the spread of signature viruses!
Fingerprint: 4BD1 7705 EEC0 260A 7F21  4817 C7FC A636 46D0 1BD6



From phd at phd.pp.ru  Wed Jan 24 06:24:02 2001
From: phd at phd.pp.ru (Oleg Broytmann)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 14:24:02 +0300 (MSK)
Subject: Parsing html links
In-Reply-To: <1Dyb6.9010$Qb7.1276496@newsb.telia.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0101241419180.16040-100000@fep132.fep.ru>

On Wed, 24 Jan 2001, Fredrik Lundh wrote:
> "Joonas" wrote:
> > How can I make a script im Python that changes all
> > 'http://myaddress.spam ' into '<a
> > href="http://myaddress.spam">http://myaddress.spam<a/>'
>
> recently seen on comp.lang.python:

<offtopic mode="philosofy">
   I always wonder how things are going in the Universe. A question may
lies hidden somewhere in a dark corner, then someone comes and asks the
question. Immediatly after him few different people come and ask the same
or very similar questions. :)))
</offtopic>

Oleg.
----
     Oleg Broytmann            http://phd.pp.ru/            phd at phd.pp.ru
           Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN.




From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Fri Jan 19 15:20:10 2001
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 20:20:10 +0000
Subject: py2exe - convert python scripts into exe files (windows)
References: <mailman.979914438.23900.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <XeJEAKA6FKa6EwDy@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>

In article <mailman.979914438.23900.python-list at python.org>, Thomas
Heller <thomas.heller at ion-tof.com> writes
>I've created a distutils extension to convert python scripts
>into standalone windows executable files.
>You end up with an exe-file as well as pythonxx.dll
>plus some .pyd's.
>
>This is more or less a rewrite of Gordon's installer project.
>
>Homepage: http://starship.python.net/crew/theller/py2exe/
>
>Compatibility: Python 1.5 or later.
>
>License: BSD
>
>Regards,
>
>Thomas Heller
Is Gordon's thing no longer supported/alive?
-- 
Robin Becker


From sholden at holdenweb.com  Thu Jan  4 08:26:59 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 08:26:59 -0500
Subject: variable inirialization and loop forms (was Re: why no "do : until"?)
References: <92jj3j$ff7$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <3A4D6A05.EEC97FA6@uswest.net> <slrn94qqvg.mgg.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <ije36.96813$x6.43604873@news2.rdc2.tx.home.com> <slrn94qt4f.mgg.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <CMo36.97857$x6.44474719@news2.rdc2.tx.home.com> <slrn94s9qg.134.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <gdq36.2696$Qb7.302774@newsb.telia.net> <slrn94shbe.150.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <92v6m002nlr@news2.newsguy.com> <slrn9578qr.3mc.grey@teleute.rpglink.com>
Message-ID: <9U_46.937$Gd1.78831@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com>

Steve Lamb <grey at despair.rpglink.com> wrote in message
news:slrn9578qr.3mc.grey at teleute.rpglink.com...
>
[snip, snippety snip snip, snip snip]
>     We done now?
>
I certainly hope so.

regards
 Steve






From godcha at my-deja.com  Wed Jan 17 05:08:11 2001
From: godcha at my-deja.com (godcha at my-deja.com)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 10:08:11 GMT
Subject: access FoxPro files without ODBC
Message-ID: <943qu9$hde$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

This is a newbie question...

But after browsing Python Library reference,
Python FAQ, and comp.lang.python, I have not been
able to determine if there is a way to access FoxPro files without ODBC
available for Python.

any help appreciated

Thanks

Godefroid Chapelle
BubbleNet sprl
Louvain-la-Neuve Belgium


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From tdelaney at avaya.com  Sun Jan  7 23:44:55 2001
From: tdelaney at avaya.com (Delaney, Timothy)
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 15:44:55 +1100 
Subject: Execution of import (was Re: boolean xor)
Message-ID: <B43D149A9AB2D411971300B0D03D7E8B0FBD5B@natasha.auslabs.avaya.com>

I think the real question here though is ... how much overhead is there in
calling

	from operator import truch

inside the function each time through (other than the first). There is some
overhead in determining that the module is already imported (even though it
should only be a dictionary lookup).

Tim Delaney
Avaya Australia
+61 2 9352 9079

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tim Peters [mailto:tim.one at home.com]
> Sent: Monday, 8 January 2001 3:43 PM
> To: python-list at python.org
> Subject: RE: Execution of import (was Re: boolean xor)
> 
> 
> > def xor(a,b):
> >     from operator import truth
> >     return truth(a) ^ truth(b)
> 
> [Peter Hansen]
> > An aside: does the 'from .. import' statement  execute every time
> > the function 'xor' is called, or only during the execution
> > of the 'def' statement?
> 
> Every stmt in Python is executable except for "global", and 
> every executable
> stmt executes where it looks like it should <wink>.  "from" 
> is the same as
> "x=1" in those respects (for that matter, so are "def" and 
> "class").  So,
> yes, every time 'xor' is called.  But imported modules are cached in
> sys.modules, so anything that imports module X will cause X to get
> *executed* only if it's the first time X is imported (by 
> anything) during
> the program run.  Imports of X after the first are just 
> lookups, mapping the
> module name to the (already executed) module object and retrieving the
> latter.
> 
> blazingly-fast-ly y'rs  - tim
> 
> 
> -- 
> http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 



From sholden at holdenweb.com  Fri Jan 12 12:42:28 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 12:42:28 -0500
Subject: URL replacement in text
References: <3A5F2A5A.494023BF@thawte.com> <MrG76.5696$Qb7.794378@newsb.telia.net>
Message-ID: <8qH76.14451$Im.109356@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>

"Fredrik Lundh" <fredrik at effbot.org> wrote in message
news:MrG76.5696$Qb7.794378 at newsb.telia.net...
> Ryan Tracey wrote:
> > Can anybody point me in the right direction on this one. I'd like to
> > pass a block of plain text (string) to a function and have that function
> > look for URLs and turn them into HTML URL tags
>
> import re
>
> links = re.compile("(?:http|ftp|gopher):[a-z0-9._~/%-]+")
>
> def fixlink(m):
>     href = m.group(0)
>     return "<a href='%s'>%s</a>" % (href, href)
>
> sometext = """
> here's a link: http://www.pythonware.com
> """
>
> print links.sub(fixlink, sometext)
>
> Hope this helps!
>
> Cheers /F
>
Tracey:

Note that this won't cope with some of the more pathological URLs (such as
those with CGI arguments [http://system/cgi?arg1=val1] or those which link
to a named anchor in the target page [http://system/pageref#target-name]).

Since it's about six times better that anything I could do, however, let
this act as a caution rather than a correction.

i-like-to-look-at-examples-too-but-avoid-re-when-I-can-ly y'rs  - steve




From sdm7g at virginia.edu  Mon Jan 29 19:20:25 2001
From: sdm7g at virginia.edu (Steven D. Majewski)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 19:20:25 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Case sensitive import from case insensitive filesystem (i.e. macosx)
 [was: CHECK_IMPORT_CASE]
In-Reply-To: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCOEFHILAA.tim.one@home.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.NXT.4.21.0101291911380.301-100000@localhost.virginia.edu>

Whatever CHECK_IMPORT_CASE is there for, it isn't what I thought it
was: I thought it might be a hook that could be used to fix the
case insensitive import problem on macosx.   But import doesn't
continue to search if it returns false, so it can't help me.

I submitted a patch to SourceForge that fixes the problem on OSX. 
( #103495 -- Now you can have both FCNTL and fcntl ! ) 

-- Steve Majewski





From news at dorb.com  Mon Jan  1 21:44:41 2001
From: news at dorb.com (Darrell)
Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2001 02:44:41 GMT
Subject: Recursion
References: <mailman.978392042.23846.python-list@python.org> <3A513319.99F69D27@theworldNoSpammy.com>
Message-ID: <tgb46.1415$Rb.277070@typhoon.nyroc.rr.com>

"David Lees" wrote:
>
> 1. I notice a pretty low (<999) recursion depth limit for factorial on
> Python 2.0.  Can the depth be set easily or does it require recompiling
> Python?
>
>From a previous message from Tim.
        sys.setrecursionlimit(5000)

 --Darrell




From dieter at handshake.de  Mon Jan 29 14:55:23 2001
From: dieter at handshake.de (Dieter Maurer)
Date: 29 Jan 2001 20:55:23 +0100
Subject: Umlauts revisited: Now they prevent program from running
References: <94rt05$tbe$1@newsreaderg1.core.theplanet.net>
Message-ID: <x7zogakuac.fsf@lindm.dm>

"Franz GEIGER" <fgeiger at datec.at> writes on Fri, 26 Jan 2001 14:11:20 +0100:
> I pull data out of an Excel sheet using DAO. There are field values
> containing text strings. Everything works fine until a text reads e.g.
> "St?ck".
> 
> After stopping before the exception
> 
> "UnicodeError: ASCII encoding error: ordinal not in range(128)"
> 
> occurs I display the field in the interactive window of PythonWin
> (ActiveState 2.0 on NT4) by simply typing "fld.Value".
> 
> It displays u'St\374ck'.
> 
> Conversion into a Python string by applying print or str() yields:
> 
> "Traceback (innermost last):
>   File "<interactive input>", line 1, in ?
> UnicodeError: ASCII encoding error: ordinal not in range(128)"
> 
> Any idea how to overcome this?
Inside your "site.py" you can change the default encoding
with "sys.setDefaultEncoding" to something appropriate for
you.

You will find more details by searching the archive of c.l.p.


Dieter


From paulus132 at my-deja.com  Tue Jan 30 18:02:33 2001
From: paulus132 at my-deja.com (paulus132 at my-deja.com)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 23:02:33 GMT
Subject: how to store great array?
References: <953sps$nta$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <slrn97cccp.30e.jepler@potty.housenet>
Message-ID: <957h63$vqa$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

Many thanks for your help!

With the Posix arguments of ps, I can follow the memory used by Python
for same great objects:

import os
os.system("ps -o pid,ppid,vsz,etime,time,comm")

And with array.array('h'), I can verify that each entry "costs" exactly
2 bytes !

But for a standard list of integers, each entry seems costing something
between 16 and 20 bytes !

Array is a good solution for my problem and Python a wonderful language,
wich offer so flexible solutions!

Paul Perrin


In article <slrn97cccp.30e.jepler at potty.housenet>,
  jepler at inetnebr.com (Jeff Epler) wrote:

> If your document numbers are contiguous and you have decided on
in-memory
> storage, [1934, 1942, ...], a list of integers rather than strings,
> is one choice.  Another is the "array" module, which will offer the
> lowest overhead.  For instance, you can select a type of "byte" (If
> all your documents are expected to fall within a 256-year timespan)
> or go all the way to "int" (4 billion year range).  This storage
method is
> as efficient as a C array, except for a few bytes of overhead.  2
million


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Mon Jan  8 17:43:11 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 23:43:11 +0100
Subject: Thank you (was Re: Should I learn Python or Java?)
References: <HEO56.5504$y9.2881293@typhoon.we.rr.com> <G2V56.5826$y9.3184141@typhoon.we.rr.com> <mailman.978901087.32745.python-list@python.org> <3A593236.6331BE0C@engcorp.com> <mailman.978966549.13022.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <93dg5b080h@news1.newsguy.com>

"D-Man" <dsh8290 at rit.edu> wrote in message
news:mailman.978966549.13022.python-list at python.org...
    [snip]
> The company I am working for now uses Java for the SDK and runtime
> library.  Part of the purpose of the product is to generate a Java
> class that our customers can use to do screen scraping from Java
> apps/applets.  Due to the nature of this product and its target
> audience it is rather tied to Java.

So, can Jython help you?  Not a rhetorical question, I'd really like to
know -- I don't have a good grasp of exactly how far you can go
using Jython vs Java, or what the performance ratios are...


Alex





From steven.citron-pousty at yale.edu  Mon Jan 15 15:23:14 2001
From: steven.citron-pousty at yale.edu (Steven Citron-Pousty)
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 15:23:14 -0500
Subject: Problem with a tuple - newbie ignorance
References: <3A633531.9010303@yale.edu>
Message-ID: <3A635C32.9E5285C5@yale.edu>

Sorry all about my incomprehensible message. Honestly, I tried reading
the woodrat and the alligator but I can't get this too work.
I didn't want to send code because I thought everyone would get POed at
me sending code.
Here is my code - remember think newbie and don't slam me too hard, its
one of those days. Thanks again for any help
Steve

import os
import sys
import string
import re

#numfields is the number of fields to potentially parse
numfields = 41

"""  THIS LIST IS INCOMPETE - get complete list from the spreadsheet
   ifields[0] is the name of the field
    ifields[1] is the content of that field
   so if we add a new item to the fields we have to add '' to the other
2 lists
   """
ifields = [['ID =', 'T = ', 'AU =', 'DIST =', 'DNUM =', 'ABS =',
'ARCH.FILTER = </B>I', 'ARCH.FILTER = </B>C', 'ARCH.FILTER = </B>N',
'ARCH.FILTER = </B>S', 'ARCH.FILTER = </B>E', 'CLASSIF',
'ICPSR.CLASSIF1', 'NACJD.CLASS', 'NACDA.CLASS' ,'SAMHDA.CLASS',
'IAED.CLASS', 'EXTENT.COLLECT', 'CLASSNO', 'SERIES.NAME', 'SERIES.INFO',
'RESTRICTIONS =', 'DATA.TYPE', 'TIME.PERIOD', 'DATE.OF.COLLECT',
'FUNDING.AGENCY', 'GRANT.NUMBER', 'DATA.SOURCE', 'EXTENT.PROCESS',
'DATA.FORMAT', 'COLLECT.NOTE', 'SAMPLING =', 'UNIVERSE =',
'RELATED.PUBS', 'CITATION =', 'KEYWORDS =', 'DIR =', 'CHAPTER =',
'SECTION =', 'SUBSECTION =','SUBSUB'],
['','','','','','','','','','','','','','','','','','','','','','','','','','','','','','','','','','','','','','','','','','','','','','','','','','','','','','','','','','','']]

#read the files and set up file for writing
dir = os.listdir('D:\\statlab\\ssda\\data') #read in the list of files
in this directory


"""open the file"""
for f in dir:
    try:
        fileproc = open('D:\\statlab\\ssda\\data\\'+f, 'r')
    except IOError:
        print 'Can\'t open file for reading.'
        sys.exit(0)

#create a new iflieds to store the data. More important for looping
    #through the directory


    result = ifields


    #read the file into a list
    text = fileproc.readlines()



    #loop through and find an occurnce of a tag
    #if you find a tag write it to the field
    #if you don't find a tag write it to the previous found field
    for i in text:
        jindex = 0
        found = 0
        for j in result[0]:
            if (i.rfind(j)==0) or (i.rfind(j)==1) or (i.rfind(j)==3):
               if i.rfind("=")+2 == ' ':
                   where = i.rfind("=")+3
               else:
                   where = i.rfind("=")+2
               result[1][jindex] = i[where:-1]
               oldindex = jindex
               found = 1
    # need to write a test for ; at the end
               if result[1][jindex][-1] == ";":
                   result[1][jindex] = i[where:-2]
               break
            elif (i.rfind(j)==6) or (i.rfind(j)==7):
               if i.rfind("=")+6 == ' ':
                   where = i.rfind("=")+7
               else:
                   where = i.rfind("=")+6
               result[1][jindex] = i[where:-1]
               found = 1
               oldindex = jindex
               if result[1][jindex][-1] == ";":
                   result[1][jindex] = i[where:-2]
               break
            jindex += 1
            if i.rfind("BV =") != -1:
               break
        if (found != 1) and (i.rfind("BV =") != -1):
            result[1][oldindex] += i[0:-1]
            found = 0




    crap  = 0
    while crap < numfields :
        if result[1][crap]:
            print "field # ", result[0][crap], " ", result[1][crap]
        crap += 1

___________________________________________________________________________________________________

###Sample data file

ID = 1588;
T = Census Of Population And Housing, 1980 [United States]: Summary Tape
File 1A;
AU = United States Department of Commerce. Bureau of the Census.;
DIST = ICPSR;
DNUM = 07941;
ABS = Summary Tape File 1 consists of four sets of computer-readable
data files containing detailed tabulations of the nation's population
and housing characteristics produced from the 1980 Census. This series
is comprised of Summary Tape File 1A (STF1A), Summary Tape File 1B
(STF1B), Summary Tape File 1C (STF1C), and Summary Tape File 1D (STF1D).
STF1A, STF1B, and STF1D have 52 separate files, one for each state,
Puerto Rico, and the District of Columbia. STF1C consists of one
nation-wide datafile containing information about all
states. All files in the STF1 series are identical, containing 321
substantive data variables organized in the form of 59 ''tables,'' as
well as standard geographic identification variables. All of the data
items contained in all the STF 1 files were tabulated from the
''complete count'' or ''100%'' questions included on the 1980 Census
questionnaire. All four groups of files within the STF1 series have
identical record formats and technical characteristics and differ only
in the types of geographical areas for which the summarized data items
are presented. STF1A provides summaries for state or state equivalent,
county or county equivalent, minor civil division/census county division
(MCD/CCD), place or place segment within MCD/CCD or remainder of
MCD/CCD, census tract or block numbering area (BNA) or untracted segment
within place, place segment or remainder or MCD/CCD, block group (BG) or
BG segment or enumeration district (ED). An additional STF 1A file for
Outlying Areas is also available from ICPSR. This file contains data
specifically for the United States possessions: American Samoa, Guam,
Northern Mariana Islands, Trust Territory of the Pacific Islands, and
the Virgin Islands. The information contained in this file is similar to
but not identical with the data for the 50 states and is
documented in a separate codebook. All STF 1 files are being released on
a state-by-state ''flow'' basis, with the less populous states generally
being prepared and released before the most populous states. Each
''record'' in these files comprises 3,276 characters with two record
segments (physical records) of 1,638 characters each, the number of data
records in each file varies by state.
<P><B>CITATION = </B>U.S. Dept. of Commerce, Bureau of the Census.
CENSUS OF POPULATION AND HOUSING, 1980 [UNITED STATES]: SUMMARY TAPE
FILE 1A [Computer file]. Washington, DC: U.S. Dept. of Commerce, Bureau
of the Census [producer], 1982. Ann Arbor, MI: Inter-university
Consortium for Political and Social Research [distributor], 1983.;
DIR;
CHAPTER = Census Enumerations;
SECTION = Contemporary;
SUBSECTION = United States;
BV;
BV.TAPE;

FILE.NUMBER = 0;
NOVELL.LOC = h:\ssda\7941\da7941ct.dat;
NRECS = 8772;
LRECL = 1638;
DS.COMMENTS = ASCII data file: Connecticut;

;





From markwart at pcug.org.au  Sat Jan 20 00:00:24 2001
From: markwart at pcug.org.au (Victor Markwart)
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 16:00:24 +1100
Subject: I will kill my Python
References: <mailman.979852022.13720.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3A691B68.FC15BBBB@pcug.org.au>

Try Gordon McMillan's 'StandAlone.py' from
http://cvs.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/extsrcwin/gordons_installer/?cvsroot=mojonation#dirlist
I've used it and it produces an (pseudo) exe
Good luck
Victor

Bruno Schaefer wrote:
> 
> Hi all, I have written a nice Python application with TKinter. And it
> works fine.Yes. But now I want to build an exe, but - o what ashit
> with that installer, builder, simple - confuing thing. I have spent
> many hours with blood and tears, but o what a shit, ugly shit :
> nothing works:  The end of all
> I give it up. I will kill my python. Its easier with a dummy-xy-Basic
> to make an exe as with this shit-modern-"oh what an easy nice
> language"-Python.
> 
> Not with me.
> 
> Yeah, python is easy and nice, the pure language, but the rest...
> 
> goodby, I'am going to look for another real easy animal !
> 
> B.Schaefer


From LangaK at discoveryhealth.co.za  Mon Jan 15 07:23:59 2001
From: LangaK at discoveryhealth.co.za (Langa Kentane)
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 14:23:59 +0200
Subject: checking free disk space
Message-ID: <A69BC9CA4B39D411BF2200105A45B45B075B8C27@dhexchange.discoveryhealth.co.za>

Good day.

I want to write a script that I can use to check the free disk space on all
drives.  The script will be used in Linux and Wind0ze.

For instance, I want to write something like:

get list of mounts/drives
for i in mount_list
	check disk space left in %
	if disk space is certain amout:
		do this
	else
		do that
	endif
endrun

Please can you point me in the right direction.  I posted something before
on this list but I realised that will not work in a wind0ze environment.

Thanks in advance.

__________________________________________________________
Langa Kentane		| TEL: (011) 290 3218
Security Administrator	| Cell: 082 606 1515
DISCOVERY HEALTH		| http://www.discoveryhealth.co.za
__________________________________________________________________




From grante at visi.com  Thu Jan  4 15:17:56 2001
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 20:17:56 GMT
Subject: Setting environment for current shell
References: <932f4d$n0r$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <UT456.8358$4c.721130@ruti.visi.com>

In article <932f4d$n0r$1 at nnrp1.deja.com>, bragib at my-deja.com wrote:

>How do you set an environment for the shell you are running python in.
>os.system() spawns its own shell.  I would like to gain access to the
>parent shell.

You can't.   You can only modify the current environment not
your parent process's.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  Yow! Those people
                                  at               look exactly like Donnie
                               visi.com            and Marie Osmond!!


From erno-news at erno.iki.fi  Sat Jan 20 03:26:58 2001
From: erno-news at erno.iki.fi (Erno Kuusela)
Date: 20 Jan 2001 10:26:58 +0200
Subject: Translating a Perl script into Python
References: <vo9i6t04nhurgv2avmgoss4mg86ofcuhtv@4ax.com> <kug0ied7po.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi> <oeei6tg7hfdcsptg6f4sosp2s1evko0i4l@4ax.com> <slrn96igh4.q4j.grey@teleute.dmiyu.org>
Message-ID: <kubst2d3xp.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>

In article <slrn96igh4.q4j.grey at teleute.dmiyu.org>,
grey at despair.rpglink.com (Steve Lamb) writes:

| On Sat, 20 Jan 2001 07:13:25 GMT, Sheila King <sheila at spamcop.net> wrote:
|| open PROC, ">proc.test" || die "Couldn't open file for write: $!";

|| Is the closest I can get in Python, to a Perl "die" statement, is to use
|| exceptions? (I'm directing this to the group, not just Erno, as I realize he
|| may not know Perl.

|     Off the top of my head, might not be the best way...
[...]
|     proc = os.open(file,O_WRONLY)

why os.open()? i think that would correspond to perl's sysopen function.

  -- erno


From sandeen.NO at SPAM.sgi.com  Sat Jan  6 01:21:13 2001
From: sandeen.NO at SPAM.sgi.com (Eric Sandeen)
Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2001 00:21:13 -0600
Subject: failed fork with latest 2.4 linux kernel?
Message-ID: <3A56B959.F1647198@SPAM.sgi.com>

Perhaps I'm way off track, but I seem to be experiencing kernel-related
crashing on a python script.

This is actually Red Hat's anaconda 7.1, modified to install the latest
2.4 kernel by default.  (the installer itself also runs under 2.4.0)

Everything worked at -test11, but with -prerelease and 2.4.0, we get
this dump (the execWithCapture function is at the end of this message). 
This will fail for any arv.  The kernel version seems to be the only
variable here... any ideas?

Traceback (innermost last):
  File "/usr/bin/anaconda", line 471, in ?
    intf.run(todo, test = test)
  File "/var/tmp/anaconda-7.1//usr/lib/anaconda/text.py", line 1054, in
run
    rc = apply (step[1](), step[2])
  File "/var/tmp/anaconda-7.1//usr/lib/anaconda/textw/timezone_text.py",
line 61, in __call__
    timezones = self.getTimezoneList(test)
  File "/var/tmp/anaconda-7.1//usr/lib/anaconda/textw/timezone_text.py",
line 25, in getTimezoneList
    zones = iutil.execWithCapture(cmd, [ cmd ], stdin = stdin)
  File "/var/tmp/anaconda-7.1//usr/lib/anaconda/iutil.py", line 128, in
execWithCapture
    os.waitpid(childpid, 0)
OSError: [Errno 10] No child processes

Local variables in innermost frame:
argv: ['/usr/bin/gunzip']
childpid: 72
root: /
stdin: 10
read: 11
...

and the last function called is this:

def execWithCapture(command, argv, searchPath = 0, root = '/', stdin =
0):

    if not os.access (root + command, os.X_OK):
        if not os.access (command, os.X_OK):
            raise RuntimeError, command + " can not be run"
        else:
            root = ""

    (read, write) = os.pipe()

    childpid = os.fork()
    if (not childpid):
        if (root and root != '/'): isys.chroot (root)
        os.dup2(write, 1)

        if stdin:
            os.dup2(stdin, 0)
            os.close(stdin)

        if (searchPath):
            os.execvp(command, argv)
        else:
            os.execv(command, argv)

        sys.exit(1)

    os.close(write)

    rc = ""
    s = "1"
    while (s):
        select.select([read], [], [])
        s = os.read(read, 1000)
        rc = rc + s

    os.close(read)

    os.waitpid(childpid, 0)

    return rc


From trotts at mit.edu  Fri Jan 12 19:11:33 2001
From: trotts at mit.edu (Issac Trotts)
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 16:11:33 -0800
Subject: brace nanny
In-Reply-To: <93nsfk02gdu@drn.newsguy.com>; from not.this@seebelow.org on Fri, Jan 12, 2001 at 01:20:52PM -0800
References: <93nsfk02gdu@drn.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <20010112161133.A977@llnl.gov>

Sure, it's called vim:

www.vim.org

If you turn on syntax highlighting, it will show the mismatched
braces in red.

Issac

Grant Griffin (not.this at seebelow.org) wrote:

> Hi Gang,
> 
> Does anybody know of a free/open "brace nanny" for C/C++, preferably written in
> Python?  (By "brace nanny", of course, I mean a gizmo that finds inconsistencies
> between the indentation level and the braces.  I've had to change bracing style
> lately, so I need a little help with that.)
> 
> braces-are-nothing-but-trouble-<wink>-ly y'rs,
> 
> =g2
> 
> _____________________________________________________________________
> 
> Grant R. Griffin                                       g2 at dspguru.com
> Publisher of dspGuru                           http://www.dspguru.com
> Iowegian International Corporation            http://www.iowegian.com
> 
> -- 
> http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
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From gregj at pobox.com  Thu Jan  4 03:12:02 2001
From: gregj at pobox.com (Greg Jorgensen)
Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 08:12:02 GMT
Subject: Unexpected result for list operator "+="
References: <3A542778.E1BC06E3@bogusaddress.com>
Message-ID: <mfW46.227356$U46.7026522@news1.sttls1.wa.home.com>

"Joe Smith" <JoeSmith at bogusaddress.com> wrote in message
news:3A542778.E1BC06E3 at bogusaddress.com...
>
> I unexpectedly get l1 modified by doing "l += l2" (see example 1).  I take
> it is because l and l1 point to the same object.  If I use the string type
> instead of the list type, I don't get l2 modified.  I guess that list
> assignment is an assignment of the reference to the object and it does not
> copy the object.  Where as a string object gets copied (see example 2).

You discovered the documented behavior. Assignment of immutable objects
(numbers, strings, tuples) essentially makes a copy of the object.
Assignment of mutable objects (lists, dictionaries) creates a new reference
to the original object.

To make a shallow copy of a list (rather than a new reference to the list),
the Python idiom is:

    a = [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]   # list of immutable objects
    b = a[:]  # b is a shallow copy of a

A shallow copy will do if the list (or dictionary) contains only immutable
objects. If the list (or dictionary) contains mutable objects, you will need
to make a deep copy. The copy module does this:

    import copy
    a = [ [1,2,3], [4,5,6] ]
    b = copy.deepcopy(a)

The "is" operator can test if references refer to the same object:

>>> a = [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]   # list of immutable objects
>>> b = a[:]  # b is a shallow copy of a
>>> c = b  # c references same list as b
>>> b == a
1
>>> b is a
0
>>> c == b
1
>>> c is b
1

--
Greg Jorgensen
PDXperts
Portland, Oregon, USA
gregj at pobox.com




From loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de  Sat Jan 20 18:47:02 2001
From: loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de (Martin von Loewis)
Date: 21 Jan 2001 00:47:02 +0100
Subject: odd NT installation problem
References: <z27a6.6393$d25.38899@newsfeed.slurp.net>
Message-ID: <p6qhf2tpz0p.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>

"bowman" <bowman at montana.com> writes:

> So, I got the BeOpen 2.0 executable, and the Tcl/Tk 8.3
> packages. Tcl installed fine, but the Python said it detected a
> corrupted installation.

The Tcl packages are not necessary; BeOpen comes with its own Tcl
libraries.

I recommend to uninstall any copies of Python and Tcl that you may
have on your system. Then, you should remove all registry key in
Software\Python, and start all over.

If it actually says that the installer is corrupted, please don't
forget to include the exact URL of the file that you've downloaded,
and the md5sum or atleast the size of the file, so others can get a
clue whether download failed.

> So, I got Python16.exe. Another corrupted installation.

Even if it would work, don't use that version.

> I'm using a rather tortuous route, as my Linux box can get out on
> the net, but the NT one can't.

Are you sure you've enabled binary mode inside ftp? (hint: what else
could I guess out of the blue sky)

Regards,
Martin


From amk at mira.erols.com  Sun Jan 28 23:40:15 2001
From: amk at mira.erols.com (A.M. Kuchling)
Date: 29 Jan 2001 04:40:15 GMT
Subject: distutils question - anything akin to make's -n flag?
References: <mailman.980739155.10303.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrn979trp.2qk.amk@mira.erols.com>

On Sun, 28 Jan 2001 21:31:42 -0600 (CST), 
	Skip Montanaro <skip at mojam.com> wrote:
>to see what potential harm it could inflict on my system.  I saw nothing in
>a quick scan of the distutils documentation to suggest there is an
>equivalent to make's -n flag.  Am I missing something or am I at the mercy
>of the module author?

Most, perhaps all, of the distutils commands support -n; try 'python
setup.py build --help' to get a list of options.

--amk



From emile at fenx.com  Wed Jan 17 19:52:17 2001
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 16:52:17 -0800
Subject: Strange variable scope... is this right?
References: <gcqp39.jkk.ln@127.0.0.1> <9456dr$a7h$1@panix2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <945ept$cc0lf$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>

Ok.

Now, for the benefit of those of us (or is it just me ;-)
who thought we were getting the hang of code blocks,
execution frames and namespaces, it would appear that a for
loop pushes references to pop before entering the loop, ala:

r = range(5)
for i in r:
    if i == 1: del r
    print i,            #--> 0 1 2 3 4

However, when del-ing a slice, the presumed pushed
references are changed:

r = range(5)
for i in r:
    if i == 1: del r[2:4]
    print i,            #--> 0 1 4

Therefore, it must be simply a reference to the source
object (r) that gets pushed.

Assuming that's correct then, is this piece of code with
annotations the way that it's working?

f = ["row", "cow", "arrow"]
# create three element list object and bind to 'f'
for f in f:
    # save reference to 'f' to iterate over,
    # re-binding 'f' to each in turn
    for f in range (len (f)):
        # save reference to newly created range object of
len (f)
        # re-binding 'f' to each in turn

It feels like this is less an issue with namespaces and more
an issue of how the for loop works.

Am-I-getting-closer-ly y'rs,

--

Emile van Sebille
emile at fenx.com
-------------------


"Aahz Maruch" <aahz at panix.com> wrote in message
news:9456dr$a7h$1 at panix2.panix.com...
> In article <gcqp39.jkk.ln at 127.0.0.1>,  <gradha at iname.com>
wrote:
> >
> >In another attempt to DTW (Dominate The World), I wrote
an obfuscated loop
> >just to see the scope behaviour of Python:
> >
> >f = ["row", "cow", "arrow"]
> >for f in f:
> > print f
> > for f in range (len (f)):
> > print f
>
> Since nobody else has suggested this, try a simple test:
>
> f = ["row", "cow", "arrow"]
> for f in f:
> for f in range (len (f)):
> print f
> print f
> --
>                       --- Aahz (Copyright 2001 by
aahz at pobox.com)
>
> Androgynous poly kinky vanilla queer het    <*>
http://www.rahul.net/aahz/
> Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6
>
> A house is a machine to keep your cat dry.  --Aahz




From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Jan  5 04:11:30 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 10:11:30 +0100
Subject: Unexpected result for list operator "+="
References: <3A542778.E1BC06E3@bogusaddress.com> <mfW46.227356$U46.7026522@news1.sttls1.wa.home.com> <zv756.231593$U46.7089647@news1.sttls1.wa.home.com> <rnf56.3809$Qb7.492757@newsb.telia.net>
Message-ID: <93435m022if@news2.newsguy.com>

"Fredrik Lundh" <fredrik at effbot.org> wrote in message
news:rnf56.3809$Qb7.492757 at newsb.telia.net...
> Greg Jorgensen wrote:
> > The real distinction--that assignment operations on immutable objects
> > create new objects (or bind a reference to a different existing object)
>
> Careful.
>
> Ordinary assignment operations (a = b) bind names in a name-
> space, they never create new objects.

Very good point.  So, it's always the 'or bind a reference'
part.  I.e.: "real" ``assignment'' always does nothing more,
and nothing less, than binding a reference to the object that
is indicated (or built) by the expression to the right of
the '='.  The "create-new or refer-to-existing" happens on
the _right_ of the = sign (just as it may happen in any
other expression); then, the '=' itself never does anything
but the binding.


> Things that may look as assignment operations, but are really
> syntactic sugar for method calls, may do whatever they want:
>
>     a[x] = b # short for __setitem__
>     a.x = b # short for __setattr__
>     a += b # short for __iadd__
>     a.append(b)

An even better point.  Still, there are 'default' behaviors
of these pseudo-assignments when applied to objects that
define nothing special relevant to the 'method call' that
the assignment-like notation stands for.  I realize I'm not
saying this rigorously enough -- but the default behavior
seems to be deserving of full explanation, among other
reasons because it's what defines the 'pattern of least
astonishment', that an author of [e.g.] a __setattr__ method
would be well advised to keep in mind... at least, he or she
will have to document carefully significant deviation from
what the author of client-code would expect (which is sort
of hard if one doesn't precisely know what IS 'expected':-).


> There's no distinction between mutable and immutable objects
> in Python itself.  An object is immutable only if it doesn't have
> any methods that allow you to change its content.  Neither you
> nor Python can do an "ismutable(x)" test.

Isn't there a _convention_ about 'immutability' being the
prerequisite for usage as a dictionary-key?  It is, of course,
defined in terms of 'hashability':

>>> d={}
>>> d[(1,2)]=3
>>> d[[4,5]]=6
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
TypeError: unhashable type
>>>

not in terms of 'mutability'... but it's _meant_ to have
something to do with mutability, at least in as much as
the latter affects comparisons, no?  I wonder if this
convention is clearly documented somewhere...


Alex





From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Sun Jan  7 13:47:29 2001
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com (Jonathan Polley)
Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2001 12:47:29 -0600
Subject: new enum idiom
References: <G6qzLy.6Fo@world.std.com> <938jmh$919$1@animus.fel.iae.nl>
Message-ID: <3A58B9C0.9F2A5CC0@collins.rockwell.com>

Is is possible to modify the 'enum' function so that I don't have to provide a
class?  I would like to use something like this method to create enumerated types,
but I don't want to keep generating classes that say:

class Ufda:
    def __repr__(self):
        return self.Enum_Repr[self.type]

I would like to just do a:

MIDI_Event = enum("NOTE_ON", "NOTE_OFF", 3, "POLYPHONIC_KEY_PRESSURE",
"CONTROLLER_CHANGE")

and then do MIDI_Event.NOTE_ON.

On a related note, how would I map between the enumeration and its ordinal value?
Would I add the methods 'ord' and 'val' to the base class
(MIDI_Event.ord(MIDI_Event.NOTE_OFF)) yields 3 and MIDI_Event.val(0) yields
MIDI_Event.NOTE_ON)?

Not being very use to OO and classes, I may need some adult supervision on this  ;)

Thanks,

Jonathan Polley
jwpolley at collins.rockwell.com


Carel Fellinger wrote:

> Will Ware <wware at world.std.com> wrote:
> ...
> > and I would have used this except that I had too many values to count
> > conveniently. Also I wanted to keep around string versions of the enum
> > names, for __repr__ purposes. So I hit upon this idiom:
>
> > class MidiEvent:
>
> >     typeNames = [
> >         "NOTE_ON", "NOTE_OFF", "POLYPHONIC_KEY_PRESSURE", "CONTROLLER_CHANGE",
> >         # dozens and dozens more...
> >         ]
>
> >     # build an enum, this is done once when the module is imported
> >     # locals() gives the namespace for this class, so they become
> >     # class attributes
>
> According to the docs locals() returns dicts that are ment to be
> read-only:( So you'll have to spell it out.  Unfortunately __dict__ is
> unnown at this moment, so is MidiEvent.  Simply postpone it till after
> the class definition of MidiEvent is finished.
>
> Classs MidiEvent:
>     typeNames = ["NOTE_ON", "NOTE_OFF", "...
>
> i = 0
> for t in MidiEvent.typeNames:
>     MidiEvent.__dict__[t] = i
>
> And inspired by Alex's recent contribution for parsing possibly
> `valued' command-line like options you could easily enhance this
> enumeration idiom to deal with things as enum (a, b=2, c, d=4).
>
> def enum(C, *args, **keys):
>     '''Create and enumerate to your hearts delight,
>        C is the class that wants enumerations,
>        *args is a sequence of enumeration names, possibly interleaved
>           with values that override the default value by specifying
>           the value for the directly preceding enum name.
>        **keys is a hack to allow to override the default name (enumRepr)
>           for the dict used to store the reverse mapping from enum
>           value to enum string
>     '''
>     i, enumRepr = -1, {}   # i is the value of the last added enum
>     for x in args:
>         if type(x) == type(""):
>             i += 1
>             C.__dict__[x], enumRepr[i] = i, x
>         elif x>i:
>             C.__dict__[enumRepr[i]], enumRepr[x] = x, enumRepr[i]
>             del enumRepr[i]
>             i = x
>         elif x<i:
>             raise ValueError, "Enumeration value out of bound"
>     C.__dict__[keys.get(enumRepr, "enumRepr")] = enumRepr
>
> Class MidiEvent:
>
>     def __repr__(self):
>         r = ("<MidiEvent %s blah blah blah" %
>              (self.enumRepr[self.type], blah, blah, blah))
>         # other info
>         return r + ">"
>
> enum(MidiEvent,
>      "NOTE_ON", "NOTE_OFF", 3, "POLYPHONIC_KEY_PRESSURE", "CONTROLLER_CHANGE")
>
> > --
> > import string,time,os;print string.join((lambda x:x[:10]+x[8:])(map(
> > lambda x:string.center("*"*(lambda x:((x<24) ### Seasons Greetings, Will Ware
> > *(x-3))+3)(x),24),range(1,28, 2))),"\n") ################ wware at world.std.com
>
> And the best wishes to you too.  (you know that in Holland the sixth
> of jan. is taken to be the day that your christmas tree has to vanish:)
> --
> groetjes, carel



From fabrice.n at home.com  Sun Jan 28 09:32:51 2001
From: fabrice.n at home.com (shaka)
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 14:32:51 GMT
Subject: how do I run a script with a command line
Message-ID: <n4Wc6.5571$KP3.2194321@news3.rdc1.on.home.com>

It's my first time to use python. And I have win98. I don't know how to run
a script with the command line, it always come in interactive mode.
How do I input my arguments?




From rwklee at home.com  Wed Jan 24 21:40:37 2001
From: rwklee at home.com (Rick Lee)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 02:40:37 GMT
Subject: ANN: timeoutsocket.py --> v1.12 works with Python 2.0
References: <980352751.234548674@news.flashcom.net> <mailman.980354010.1825.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3A6F9224.FBCE2EF1@home.com>

I don't know how expensive threads are.  If I have to implement a
server, it seems to me that I have to do recv() on every connection I
accept on a separate thread.  Is that the way to go?  Is there a more
efficient way?  Asyncore?  (In my application, all TCP connections are
very long lived, there can be up to 1000 simultaneous connections.)

- Rick Lee

Jeff Bauer wrote:

> The timeoutsocket.py module is very useful.  Any chance
> it could be rolled into the standard python library?
>
> Jeff Bauer
> Rubicon Research



From emile at fenx.com  Fri Jan 26 16:48:28 2001
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 13:48:28 -0800
Subject: SourceForge problems
References: <mailman.980510689.2616.python-list@python.org> <lmlc6.774$27.199390@ruti.visi.com> <mailman.980545112.10091.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <94srdj$edtl1$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>


"Thomas Wouters" <thomas at xs4all.net> wrote in message
news:mailman.980545112.10091.python-list at python.org...
> On Fri, Jan 26, 2001 at 08:46:09PM +0000, Grant Edwards
wrote:
>
> > >don't-even-try-discussing-hot-steaming-faggots<wink>-ly
y'rs - tim
>
> > You're probably not talking about cigarettes or
firewood, so
> > I'm guessing it's some sort of sausage. But English food
is
> > best left undiscussed if not uneaten.  ;)
>
> As opposed to the wonderful american inventions of,
uuhmm... the hotdog ?
>


... or the lekker dutch... eh.. spitskop?  ;-)

--

Emile van Sebille
emile at fenx.com
-------------------





From fredrik at effbot.org  Tue Jan 16 13:09:29 2001
From: fredrik at effbot.org (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 18:09:29 GMT
Subject: python compiled to native in less than a year?
References: <mailman.979575676.22737.python-list@python.org> <GqH86.6041$J%.605518@news.flash.net> <G9K86.60439$eB2.5067059@news.infostrada.it> <n7vv39.r1f.ln@demonseed.net> <941koq077o@news1.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <t7096.7018$AH6.1063895@newsc.telia.net>

Alex Martelli wrote:
> > Actually, the IL documentation is pretty good.  Assuming the
> > MS implementation of it follows the specification, this won't be
> > a problem.
>
> Do you have an URL for non-microsoft sites with the IL docs, please?

http://developer.intel.com/software/idap/ecma/index.htm
http://devresource.hp.com/devresource/Docs/TechPapers/CSharp/CSharpMirror.html

Cheers /F




From jasonic at nomadicsltd.com  Thu Jan 18 14:38:42 2001
From: jasonic at nomadicsltd.com (Jason Cunliffe)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 14:38:42 -0500
Subject: Python & GUI?
References: <3A674896.C7E52247@crepido.com>
Message-ID: <t6ehbe3c0o40e7@corp.supernews.com>

Marco Seiri? <marco at crepido.com> wrote in message
news:3A674896.C7E52247 at crepido.com...
> Are there any GUI components or ways to build a GUI in
> Python that contains all the widgets that one would expect to
> find in a VB or Java environment. Can you (easily) build things
> like explorer like applications and such...

YES!

http://wxpython.org/

<quote >
wxPython is a GUI toolkit for the Python programming language. It allows
Python programmers to create programs with a robust, highly functional
graphical user interface, simply and easily. It is implemented as a Python
extension module (native code) that wraps the popular wxWindows cross
platform GUI library, which is written in C++.

Like Python and wxWindows, wxPython is Open Source which means that it is
free for anyone to use and the source code is available for anyone to look
at and modify. Or anyone can contribute fixes or enhnacments to the project.

wxPython is a cross-platform toolkit. This means that the same program will
run on multiple platforms without modification. Currently supported
platforms are Microsoft Windows, and most Unix or unix-like systems. A
Macintosh version is a distinct possibility, given I can find the time and
that the Mac version of wxWindows is brought up to par with the other
platforms.
<quote>

Two good tools to help develop wxPython are:

BOA
http://boa-constructor.sourceforge.net/Help/AppHelp/
<quote>
A RAD GUI building Python IDE!
It is built on wxPython, wxWindows and Python.
Boa Constructor was inspired by and aspires to Delphi.
</quote>

wxDesigner
http://www.roebling.de/
<quote>
FREIBURG, GERMANY, December 19th, 2000: wxDesigner 1.4b released. wxDesigner
is now available for 32-bit Windows and several Unix variants.
Q: What is wxDesigner?
A: A commercial dialog editor and RAD tool for the free wxWindows GUI
library.

Q: What is wxWindows?
A: A free C++ library for cross-platform development, with bindings for
Python and Perl.

Q: What kind of output does wxDesigner produce?
A: wxDesigner can write C++, Python and Perl code directly.

Q: Isn't there an XML based resource format for wxWindows?
A: This is currently being written and wxDesigner has experimental support
for this, too.

Q: Is there a version of wxDesigner for the Mac?
A: Work is being done on this.
</quote>

It is easy to research such things using 'The Vaults of Parnassus':
http://www.vex.net/parnassus

for example the GUI graphics list:
http://www.vex.net/parnassus/apyllo.py?i=247038364

I always enjoy to check the 'latest' tab there also:
http://www.vex.net/parnassus/apyllo.py?a=l


The main alterntive to wxPython are the 'Tkinter' tools. A good site to
start is http://www.pythonware.com/

A basic Tkinter intro
http://www.pythonware.com/library/tkinter/introduction/

and some fresh new souped up GUI tools called 'Tkinter 3000'
http://w1.132.telia.com/~u13208596/tkinter/

...finally some background technopolitic reading about GUI and Python
http://www.amk.ca/python/dev/2000-10-2.html



good luck
--Jason
___________________________________________________________
Jason CUNLIFFE = NOMADICS['Interactive Art and Technology']




From phd at phd.pp.ru  Tue Jan 23 09:35:33 2001
From: phd at phd.pp.ru (Oleg Broytmann)
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 17:35:33 +0300 (MSK)
Subject: urllib.urlretrieve("http://free.bsdshell.net/")
In-Reply-To: <6b1r6tsfjat9fgd5qju029tbeev3i2hgk3@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0101231733520.11674-100000@fep132.fep.ru>

On Tue, 23 Jan 2001, Toby Dickenson wrote:
> Is your browser using a proxy that python doesnt know about?

   I tried urllib on different computers in two different networks.
Probably the site does not like my User-Agent. Will try to find the reason.
   Thanks.

Oleg.
----
     Oleg Broytmann            http://phd.pp.ru/            phd at phd.pp.ru
           Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN.




From baasad at qualitynet.net  Sun Jan 28 12:28:09 2001
From: baasad at qualitynet.net (baasad)
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 20:28:09 +0300
Subject: biggner question
Message-ID: <952951$m4r1@news.qualitynet.net>

how can I read from the command line
also how can I read users input :)
thanx
bashar





From moshez at zadka.site.co.il  Sat Jan 27 11:47:47 2001
From: moshez at zadka.site.co.il (Moshe Zadka)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 18:47:47 +0200 (IST)
Subject: How are threads implemented in Python?
In-Reply-To: <OKCc6.46$wI1.8606@news1.rdc1.mb.home.com>
References: <OKCc6.46$wI1.8606@news1.rdc1.mb.home.com>
Message-ID: <20010127164747.DF26EA840@darjeeling.zadka.site.co.il>

On Sat, 27 Jan 2001 16:32:46 GMT, "Parzival Herzog" <parz at home.com> wrote:

> Are threads implemented as OS threads, thereby multi-threading the
> interpreter code, or does the Python interpreter itself maintain a
> list of Python treads and switch between them?

Well, both.
The threads are implemented as OS threads, but Python holds
a global interpreter lock (GIL), and only the thread that
holds the lock gets to run. The lock is released and reaquired
every N instructions.

Some instructions release the lock while waiting for OS activity:
the classical examples being reading from file descriptors or
sockets.
-- 
Moshe Zadka <sig at zadka.site.co.il>
This is a signature anti-virus. 
Please stop the spread of signature viruses!
Fingerprint: 4BD1 7705 EEC0 260A 7F21  4817 C7FC A636 46D0 1BD6



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Tue Jan 16 15:43:07 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 21:43:07 +0100
Subject: Building a Python OCX
References: <9423o8$309$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <9428uv$87i$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <942bsu02qn3@news2.newsguy.com>

"Mark Hammond" <MarkH at ActiveState.com> wrote in message
news:9428uv$87i$1 at nnrp1.deja.com...
> In article <9423o8$309$1 at nnrp1.deja.com>,
>   John Urberg <jurberg at my-deja.com> wrote:
> > Is it possible to build a visual Python OCX control?
>
> Currently not.
>
> > Can I access Python objects thru OLE?
> > How complex is it?
>
> It is quite simple to create "standard" COM objects using Python and
> access them from any other language.  However, the extra interfaces and
> complexity required by a true OCX is currently far from trivial.

I haven't tried yet, but, couldn't one make a DHTML Scriptlet, 'energized'
with Python, and get a 'visual OCX control' that way...?  See... (a single
URL, even if my posting software or your reader wraps it):

http://msdn.microsoft.com/workshop/c-frame.htm?/workshop/components/scriptle
t/overview/overview.asp

and immediately-following pages about scriptlets (DHTML behaviors are
also good, but I don't know how to use them from a generic OCX
container, while that's easy for a scriptlet via the Scriptlet Container
Object -- also documented close to that page).


Alex





From dsh8290 at rit.edu  Mon Jan  1 16:16:44 2001
From: dsh8290 at rit.edu (D-Man)
Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2001 16:16:44 -0500
Subject: why no "do : until"?
In-Reply-To: <92maie$cfo$3@newshost.accu.uu.nl>; from m.faassen@vet.uu.nl on Sun, Dec 31, 2000 at 03:52:46AM +0000
References: <92jj3j$ff7$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <slrn94shbe.150.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <X8s36.2731$Qb7.305339@newsb.telia.net> <slrn94smds.150.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <FOt36.17$vd1.2224@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com> <slrn94t1vj.150.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <3A4E95FD.D6C737A7@engcorp.com> <92maie$cfo$3@newshost.accu.uu.nl>
Message-ID: <20010101161644.B30213@westsidecnc.rh.rit.edu>

On Sun, Dec 31, 2000 at 03:52:46AM +0000, Martijn Faassen wrote:
[snip]
> I suspect (and seem to recall hearing about this before) the reason is
> more prosaic; how does one indent the darn thing? :)
> 
> do:
>    ..
> until x > 25
> 
> does not fit a pythonic pattern for statements.
> 
> do:
>    ..
>    until x > 25
> 
> doesn't either,

How about

until x > 25 :
	..


;-)

This may remove the "while 1" argument for most cases too!  

I-wouldn't-complain-if-it-was-added-to-the-language-but-I-won't-fight-for-it-either

-D



From smibr at my-deja.com  Wed Jan 24 16:47:18 2001
From: smibr at my-deja.com (smibr at my-deja.com)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 21:47:18 GMT
Subject: Timestamping JPEGs w/ PIL?
References: <mailman.980006598.21663.python-list@python.org> <Y_Pa6.2432$9v2.76312@quark.idirect.com> <94ni7p$ta2$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <94nih2$tgd$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

In article <94ni7p$ta2$1 at nnrp1.deja.com>,
  smibr at my-deja.com wrote:
>
> > http://www.cs.usyd.edu.au/~piers/python/pilfonts.html
> >
> > Kevin Cazabon.
>
> I'm getting 404'd on this address. Have they been moved somewhere
else?

Sorry, not 404'd on that address but unable to get to the ftp-site. I
was typing faster than I was thinking.


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From timo at alum.mit.edu  Wed Jan 24 11:09:04 2001
From: timo at alum.mit.edu (TimO)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 11:09:04 -0500
Subject: ANN: timeoutsocket.py --> v1.12 works with Python 2.0
Message-ID: <980352751.234548674@news.flashcom.net>

hola.

A number of people have reported problems using timeoutsocket.py with the
urllib in Python 2.0.  These problems have been fixed!  

   http://www.timo-tasi.org/python/timeoutsocket.py


The problem turns out to have been an imcompatibility with the new httplib,
which closes the underlying socket before reading any data from the
socket.makefile() instance.  

Let me know if there are any more problems...



From dalf at nospam.org  Fri Jan  5 11:51:50 2001
From: dalf at nospam.org (dalf)
Date: 5 Jan 2001 16:51:50 GMT
Subject: why no "do : until"?
References: <92jj3j$ff7$1@nnrp1.deja.com>   <slrn94smds.150.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <FOt36.17$vd1.2224@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com> <slrn94t1vj.150.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <3A4E95FD.D6C737A7@engcorp.com> <slrn94tqkh.150.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <tpr46.7782$4c.597534@ruti.visi.com> <slrn954h6p.rgv.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <3A52AD6A.62D043A2@engcorp.com> <slrn955o7d.t0c.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <ltofxokq6u.fsf@asfast.com> <slrn957pea.6n1.grey@teleute.rpglink.com>
Message-ID: <934u36$plc$1@ites.inria.fr>

Steve Lamb <grey at despair.rpglink.com> wrote:
> On 03 Jan 2001 21:26:49 -0500, Lloyd Zusman <ljz at asfast.com> wrote:
>>But you know damn well that the person who said that was not using the
>>word "arbitrary" as you're using it above, and therefore, you're
>>deliberately playing with words here, just to be argumentative.
>
>     I am using it in the exact same way.  To an arbitrary value, not set it
> arbitrarily.  To set it to a known value.  That is initting a variable.  A
> value you choose for your own devices.

There are two problems:

- You set the variable to a value that has no meaning, except that for
  this variable you are able to simulate the control flow of the program
  in your head, and the value you chose is going send you at the right
  point.
    This is ugly and bug-prone. This is a hack. The very least people 
  would admit here would be:
    temperature=None
    while temperature==None or temperature<25:
       ...

  Also what value would you use with a different test, such as:
    temperature= ???
    while 0.5 <= math.sin(temperature)+1.0/temperature <= 0.6:
      ...

- Your idiom requires an arbitrary but predictible value, which
  is ugly as well, since such a value a) might not exist, 
  b) might well require 64 MB of memory, c) might change suddenly
  when code elsewhere is modified. Consider the following Java code:

  VeryBigObject veryBigObject=new VeryBigObject("21323EZRer234");
              # "21323EZRer234" is the value I know it will pass the test
	      # "21323EZRer235" would NOT do nor 1e100 other values.
	      # Note: uses 64 MB of memory
  while (veryBigObject.test()) {
       ...
  }
  

  Now if one change VeryBigObject definition 10 years from now,
so that veryBigObject.test() is now verified for "21323EZRer235",
but not "21323EZRer234", congrats! You have splendid code breakage,
which might be extremely hard to debug. Not to mention the 64 MB of
memory wasted until next GC.


The conclusion is that you *cannot* use this idiom everywhere. 
It's just a complete hack.

.dalf


From aa8vb at yahoo.com  Tue Jan 16 10:40:35 2001
From: aa8vb at yahoo.com (Randall Hopper)
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 10:40:35 -0500
Subject: [ANNOUNCE] FreeImage 2.0.0 out!
In-Reply-To: <93sbqv$l9gi$1@reader01.wxs.nl>; from flvdberg@wxs.nl on Sun,
 Jan 14, 2001 at 03:02:05PM +0100
References: <93sbqv$l9gi$1@reader01.wxs.nl>
Message-ID: <20010116104035.A5509076@vislab.epa.gov>

Floris van den Berg:
 |FreeImage is designed for multimedia specialists (users of C++, Python or
 |Magenta II) working on Windows or Linux. FreeImage doesn't work on any other
 |platform than Windows or Linux at this moment. Support for other platforms
 |is considered.
 |
 |FreeImage only compiles under Microsoft Visual C++ 6. If you want to use
 |FreeImage with any other compiler, you will have to download the sourcecode
 |and modify it so that it works with this new compiler. FreeImage ships with
 |project-files for MSVC6.

Curious.  It compiles only with MSVC++6.0, yet works on Windows and Linux (??)

-- 
Randall Hopper
aa8vb at yahoo.com



From steve at spvi.com  Sat Jan 20 08:31:35 2001
From: steve at spvi.com (Steve Spicklemire)
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 08:31:35 -0500 (EST)
Subject: FreeThreading Python?
Message-ID: <200101201331.f0KDVZY58692@mercury.spvi.com>

Hi Python Folk,

I've been living in Zope land now since December
of 1998, so I rarely get a chance to read, let alone
post, to this list... but with Python-2+ etc I've
been wondering about the state of threading and
the future of python.

Here's what I would love: 

<DREAM-MODE>
Go to your favorite 6 processor machine.
type:

python -c 'from test import test_thread'

and all 6 processors are 'max-ed' out while 
different threads are scheduled on different
processors.

</DREAM-MODE>

At one time in the distant past I remember some patches
from Greg Stein (I think) that partially/mostly? allowed
python to run a lot more code free of the dreaded 
Global Interpreter Lock (GIL).  I'm guessing what he
did (I never used, or even examined, these patches
since I didn't have access to a system where they would
have helped me... much). Now that multiprocessor
machines are becoming much more commonplace, is there
any effort aimed at updating these patches, or 'fixing'
the GIL thingy so that mere mortals might be able
to write pure python code that can totally swamp
6 processors at the same time? ;-) 

If not.... I'm guessing that the other option is to
do something like the Zope folks are doing with ZEO and
have multiple processes sharing a common object space
(e.g., ZODB) and each process can be multithreaded
but have a single interpreter instance. Is there any
'beginners' code that implements anything like this?
(something you could show a sophomore, or even me, 
 and hope for comprehension). Best of all... one
that could make my <DREAM-MODE> vision work with
very little change to test/test_thread.py. 

thanks,
-steve




From hamish_lawson at yahoo.co.uk  Thu Jan 11 03:55:46 2001
From: hamish_lawson at yahoo.co.uk (Hamish Lawson)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 08:55:46 GMT
Subject: is Python fully object oriented ?
References: <20010110184830.13286.00000826@ng-fg1.aol.com> <93iuqb$rn9$1@panix3.panix.com> <mailman.979178411.3072.python-list@python.org> <93j8jf$k3u$1@newshost.accu.uu.nl>
Message-ID: <93jseg$jnv$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

> > Python also support free-standing functions, similar to C++.
>
> But those functions are objects too. :)

As are modules, classes, strings, etc.

Hamish Lawson


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From glenfant at equod.com.nospam  Tue Jan  9 11:10:04 2001
From: glenfant at equod.com.nospam (Gilles Lenfant)
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 17:10:04 +0100
Subject: post in CGI scripts
References: <mailman.979051149.6515.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <93fcrj$3lm$1@reader1.imaginet.fr>

Hmmm...

With WinNT 4 + (IIS | Apache) + (Python 1.5.2 | python 2.0) I get all data
with "cgi.FieldStorage()" and did not need to patch anything.
Sorry, I have no experience with Xitami, but...
Did you test dummy POST handling scripts with something else than python
(i.e. perl)?

"Barbini Uberto" <Uberto.Barbini at ceda.polimi.it> a ?crit dans le message
news: mailman.979051149.6515.python-list at python.org...
> I've found some problems to use "post" method in my cgi script (in
python).
>
> From which I read I assumed that
> >>>
> import cgi
>
> form = cgi.FieldStorage()
> <<<
>
> have to run both with "get" and "post" html form methods.
>
> Anyway my script (a converter from nntp to html) can get input values only
> with "get" method and not with "post" method.
>
> I'm using Xitami under w2k. I configured it adding a filter which link
*.py
> to python.exe.
>
> Where I'm doing wrong?
>
>
> Ciao Uberto
>



From tim.hochberg at ieee.org  Thu Jan 18 09:36:06 2001
From: tim.hochberg at ieee.org (Tim Hochberg)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 14:36:06 GMT
Subject: McMillan's installer & new module
References: <94209j$giv$1@athena.euroweb.hu> <Itk96.65731$y9.12085067@typhoon.we.rr.com> <mailman.979754736.14513.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <qbD96.151287$15.32488725@news1.rdc1.az.home.com>

I meant to post this to the group in response to Arpad's original question,
but goofed and sent it directly to him instead. If the problem you're having
is that the executable the installer is creating won't find buitin modules
such as new, math, etc., this may help.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Arpad Kiss" <sekter at matavnet.hu>

> Hi,
> I have installed Python 2.0 and McMillan's installer(version 3i) on Win NT
> 4.0 sp6.
> If I use Standalone.py to create a standalone exe and my script contains
> only "import new" then the generated exe raises an error message:
> ImportError: No module named new
> Any idea?

This is a bug in the current installer which Gordon is aware of and will
presumably fix in an upcoming release. In the meantime, one way to fix this
is to add the following magic incantation to the top of your main script:

import sys, imputil
sys.path.append(imputil.BuiltinImporter())

One could presumably also fix this by editing Builder.py, and I believe this
is what Gordon has recomended to people who have asked him about it, but I
haven't looked into this myself.

Hope that does the trick for you.

-tim

-----------------------------------------------------------------

"Dan Rolander" <dan.rolander at marriott.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.979754736.14513.python-list at python.org...
> I've played around with Gordon's Installer a bit, but have gotten stuck
when
> it can't find all the modules I need. He does have a lot of information on
> his web site but I'm not sure I understand all of it. Is there a better
way
> to package Python scripts into standalone exe's for Win32? I've read a
> little about freeze, squeeze, distutils, etc. but haven't tried them.
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> Thanks,
> Dan
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Pete Shinners" <shredwheat at mediaone.net>
> Newsgroups: comp.lang.python
> To: <python-list at python.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2001 12:18 PM
> Subject: Re: McMillan's installer & new module
>
>
> > "Arpad Kiss" <sekter at matavnet.hu> wrote
> > > I have installed Python 2.0 and McMillan's installer(version 3i) on
Win
> NT
> > > 4.0 sp6.
> > > If I use Standalone.py to create a standalone exe and my script
contains
> > > only "import new" then the generated exe raises an error message:
> > > ImportError: No module named new
> >
> > last i heard from gordon, there is definitely a problem with the
> > latest installer when it tries to import the builtin modules
> > (time, new, etc).
> > gordon seems pretty busy these days and said a new version would
> > be available whenever he can get around to it.
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> >
>
>




From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Jan 19 17:04:25 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 23:04:25 +0100
Subject: PSU uses emacs?
References: <948e4b$hm0$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <948fvj$oq1$1@panix6.panix.com> <3A67CDC3.7EACB07D@Lugoj.Com> <9490t009on@news2.newsguy.com> <3a685ef2.3403798@reading.news.pipex.net> <949rii0a76@news1.newsguy.com> <mailman.979929746.2047.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <94adta01pq3@news2.newsguy.com>

"D-Man" <dsh8290 at rit.edu> wrote in message
news:mailman.979929746.2047.python-list at python.org...
> On Fri, Jan 19, 2001 at 05:55:45PM +0100, Alex Martelli wrote:
    [snip]
> | nice to have movement commands based on indent-levels, but, to be
> | quite honest with you, I've never bothered programming them...
>
> I'd like this too.  In C/C++/Java it is nice to type "%" to jump
> between begin and end of blocks.

Guess I've found a project on which to use gvim's Python
programmability...


> | (shame's about to engulf me...).  I like :set expandtab always
> | on -- no tab/space confusion; I also like :set ff unix, so that my
> | scripts can be shared between Win and Unix machines (and why
> | waste one byte per line to tell a 'carriage' that is not there
> | to 'return' [to where?]...?!-).
>
> Exactly.  DOS/Windows never did operate from a teletype did it?  I

No, but QDOS strictly imitated CP/M (rumor has it that it was little
more than an 8086 reassembly of a disassembly of CP/M...) which
in turn took most of its conventions from an Intel OS which in turn
got them from some Digital Equipment one (I ain't kidding...!).


> | may have inserted, :%s/^Q^M// is what one types (with ^ to mean
>                       ^
> What does the % mean here?  I usually use :g/^V^M/s/// (working on NT
> or in cygwin's console vim).

:%s means to do the substitution on all lines (I know it always did
in all vi's, and I think it also always did in ex's).  Note how many
keystrokes it saves compared to your chosen idiom!-)


Alex





From fredrik at effbot.org  Mon Jan 29 12:28:23 2001
From: fredrik at effbot.org (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 17:28:23 GMT
Subject: marshal doesn't work with "file-like" objects
References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010126135016.029c4d90@mail.mindspring.com> <mailman.980540325.4462.python-list@python.org> <94t1bi$m73$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <Wyxc6.9225$AH6.1522817@newsc.telia.net> <950a3c$27b$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <aORc6.9326$AH6.1567365@newsc.telia.net> <9546rk$15i$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <XKhd6.10096$AH6.1624190@newsc.telia.net>

Chuck won't just give up:
> I must be missing which post you refer to. I ultimately responded to
> the Tim Peters post that I see.

here's his post:

    You could do this instead:

        filelikeobject.write(marshal.dumps(object))

    Reading a sequence of marshaled values back from a file-like object is more
    of a puzzle!

Note the second part ("more of a puzzle" is a polite way to say
"impossible, if you care about performance").

> I guess at some point I'll just have to hack this myself and report the
> benchmarks. Do you see what I'm saying about speed, though? It's
> generally faster to do operations in memory and then write one long
> byte string than it is to repeatedly write a small bits of data to disk.

Starting with 2.1a1, Python does this when importing from PYC
files  (if you follow the link I posted earlier, you might be able to
figure out who came up with that idea ;-).  But that's a special
case; in normal cases, load has to read the stream byte for byte.

But if all you want to do is write, use Tim's write(dumps) approach.
There's no way you can do it with fewer Python-level calls...

Cheers /F




From joejava at dragonat.net  Sat Jan  6 09:36:39 2001
From: joejava at dragonat.net (Joel Ricker)
Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2001 09:36:39 -0500
Subject: What makes Python Python (was: OO in Python (was Re: Migrating to perl?))
References: <3Fa56.4580$of7.216286@news1.atl> <934ghv02hg0@news2.newsguy.com> <3284C8A2D218D5A4.904FDBE7634A2E21.13E03F073E968847@lp.airnews.net> <934noe02o73@news2.newsguy.com> <200101051648.KAA49133@starbase.neosoft.com> <936qce0p55@news1.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <m6G56.2070$4Z.109716@news2.atl>

Alex Martelli wrote in message <936qce0p55 at news1.newsguy.com>...

>The really strange thing is, the various parts meld into a
>whole that is greater than the sum of the parts!  If I
>"designed" a language by cherry-picking thinks I liked from
>others, the result would be sure to be an unholy mess.

Not necessarily.  Its how we've come to have Python, or Perl, or a number of
languages written by people who have decided that language x doesn't have y
so they created their own and a new language z is born.  Then, people will
be discussing why language z doesn't have a, b, or c and the process
continues ;)

Joel





From robinjim at earthlink.net  Thu Jan 18 20:32:26 2001
From: robinjim at earthlink.net (robin and jim)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 01:32:26 GMT
Subject: importing classes from a variable
References: <t6f17dps6c4d87@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <KOM96.89$rH6.8638@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>

hello Justin,

Are you looking for something like the following?


import os, string, sys

directory_name = sys .argv [1]
package_name = string .replace (directory_name, os.sep, '.')

try:
   package = __import__ ( package_name, globals(), locals(), ['__init__'] )
   modules = getattr (package, '__all__')
except AttributeError, message:
   handle_error ('"__init__.py" file for ' + directory_name + ' has no
"__all__ attribute')
except ImportError, message:
   handle_error (directory_name + ' has no "__init__.py" file')


"JustinHJ" <justinhj at hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:t6f17dps6c4d87 at corp.supernews.com...
> Could anyone offer any advice on the following problem. What I have is a
> python program that takes a file and does something to it by calling
member
> functions in a class. To seperate the code that does the export from the
> main program, what I wanted to do is to be able to go from a text string
> name of the export process....
>
> str = 'export_1'
>
> and do the equivalent of
>
> import 'export_1'
>
> exportclass = export1.Export.DoExport
>
> So in case that's not clear I want to be able to import modules in a class
> without knowing their name until runtime, then use the module name as a
> variable.EG:
>
> export_string = 'export_1'
>
> import export_string # this doesn't work
>
> export_string.Export # this doesn't work either
>
>
>
>
>




From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Jan 12 07:34:15 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 13:34:15 +0100
Subject: Using Python COM objects from C++
References: <ixe76.2667$k25.38410@news1.oke.nextra.no> <93lsgt$q72$1@troll.powertech.no>
Message-ID: <93mtn30qsk@news1.newsguy.com>

"Syver Enstad" <syver at NOSPAMcyberwatcher.com> wrote in message
news:93lsgt$q72$1 at troll.powertech.no...
    [snip]
> > I know how to call the python COM object using "pure" IDispatch, but is
it
> > possible to make a type library and ensure that the Python class
> > implementing the COM complies with it?
> >
> > The problem would be the dispatch id's as far as I can see. I don't know
> > how to specify the dispatch id's that the method's in the python object
> > should have.
> >
> I found an okay solution.
>
> Make your python com object just as you use to, but:
>
> Make the class variable _public_methods_ empty, like this.
> _public_methods = []
>
> Make a class variable _dispid_to_func_ that is a dictionary mapping
dispids
> to function names. Like this:
>     _dispid_to_func_ = {0x1:'Dummy', 0x2:'Swear'}
>
> If you want to implement a dispinterface from a typelibrary/idl file
adjust
> the _dispid_to_func_ dictionary so it matches the idl.

Right!  This IS one way to achieve the results you desire.

However, you can save some boring manual work by letting makepy (and other
allied tools) generate the Python 'skeletons' for you, directly from the
information that is contained in the type library.

Let's try a simple example.  Say we have an IDL file, SAMPATL.IDL:

import "oaidl.idl";
import "ocidl.idl";

[
    uuid(EB8DED71-E882-11D4-9E4C-0060B0EB1D67),
    version(1.0),
    helpstring("A Sample Type Library")
]
library SAMPATLLib
{
    importlib("stdole32.tlb");
    importlib("stdole2.tlb");

    [
        uuid(EB8DED7F-E882-11D4-9E4C-0060B0EB1D67),
        helpstring("A Sample DispInterface")
    ]
    dispinterface MyInterface
    {
        properties:
        methods:
        [id(1), helpstring("a method")] HRESULT
            AMethod([in]LONG aLong);
        [id(2), helpstring("another method")] HRESULT
            AnotherMethod([in]BSTR aString, [out, retval]BSTR* theResult);
        [propget, id(3), helpstring("a read-only property")] HRESULT
            ReadOnly([out, retval] double *pVal);
        [propget, id(5), helpstring("a read-write property")] HRESULT
            AProperty([out, retval] DATE *pVal);
        [propput, id(5)] HRESULT
            AProperty([in] DATE newVal);
    };
};

We compile this with MIDL to get SAMPATL.TLB.  Then we run something like:

D:\experiments\sampatl>python \python20\win32com\client\makepy.py
sampatl.tlb
Generating to
d:\python20\win32com\gen_py\EB8DED71-E882-11D4-9E4C-0060B0EB1D67x0x1x0.py

Examining the python-file which we've just been told has been generated,
we'll see, among a few other things, something like:

class MyInterface(DispatchBaseClass):
    """A Sample DispInterface"""
    CLSID = pythoncom.MakeIID('{EB8DED7F-E882-11D4-9E4C-0060B0EB1D67}')

    def AMethod(self, aLong=defaultNamedNotOptArg):
        """a method"""
        return self._oleobj_.InvokeTypes(0x1, LCID, 1, (3, 0), ((3,
1),),aLong)

    def AnotherMethod(self, aString=defaultNamedNotOptArg,
theResult=defaultNamedNotOptArg):
        """another method"""
        return self._ApplyTypes_(0x2, 1, (3, 0), ((8, 1), (16392, 10)),
'AnotherMethod', None,aString, theResult)

    _prop_map_get_ = {
        "AProperty": (5, 2, (3, 0), ((16391, 10),), "AProperty", None),
        "ReadOnly": (3, 2, (3, 0), ((16389, 10),), "ReadOnly", None),
    }
    _prop_map_put_ = {
        "AProperty": ((5, LCID, 4, 0),()),
    }

Not _quite_ what you need, but, getting there.  I find it often helpful to
have the CLSID, helpstrings, argument names, etc, all present -- the
dispatch ID's you need are also here, though not evidently so (the first
arguments to InvokeTypes and _ApplyTypes_ call, first elements in the
tuples in the maps for get and put properties), so you need not consult
the IDL or other docs to double-check them.

Massaging the makepy-generated Python code, or imitating makepy and friends
into a similar tool that generates (ideally decently-named:-) python
sources that are immediately suitable to inherit from, is left as an
exercise to the student:-).  Actually, I haven't found this process to
be a frequent enough need for me, to be worth the work to automate it
fully -- because of the limitation to dispinterfaces, which IS somewhat
drastic.  Still, it IS helpful to have a type-library, anyway, if you
implement Python COM servers that you need to consume from some other
languages (it doesn't help with VBscript or JScript, but it _is_ a bit
helpful with VB, and almost-indispensable should you ever want to use
C++ as the client of such COM objects...) -- and this is one good way
to achieve that.


Alex





From xoltar1 at home.com  Tue Jan 23 18:29:06 2001
From: xoltar1 at home.com (Bryn & Anshu)
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 23:29:06 GMT
Subject: Keyboard and mouse simulation?
Message-ID: <3A6F6A89.EEA95D9C@home.com>

Hi folks,
    I need to develop an automated GUI test tool. Can anyone provide
examples or pointers on how to simulate key presses, movement of the
mouse, etc., either based on the Qt framework or on the Windows API?

I'm using PyQt, and I've found the QCursor.setPos() method which works
fine for movement, but I can't find anything to simulate presses of
mouse or keyboar button aside from posting events. Posting events to the
event queue doesn't seem to have the desired (or any) effect.

Thanks in advance,

Bryn





From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Tue Jan 23 16:05:51 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 22:05:51 +0100
Subject: unpack sequence to tuple?
References: <94j6j1$3na$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <mailman.980234666.18231.python-list@python.org> <94jjtb0108j@news1.newsguy.com> <94kf4n$58u$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <94krq40bh6@news2.newsguy.com>

"John Nielsen" <nielsenjf at my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:94kf4n$58u$1 at nnrp1.deja.com...
    [snip]
> > Unfortunately, tuples and lists cannot be concatenated, which
> > is why we need to cast the sequence into a definite form here --
> > choosing list would of course work just as well:
> >
> > def padSequence(seq, length):
> >     return (list(seq)+[None]*length)[:length]
>
> Or you could just use extend. which may be a little clearer.
>
> def padSequence(seq, length):
>     a=list(seq)
>     a.extend(list((None,)*length))
>     return a[:length]

Clarity, I guess, is in the eye of the beholder; even if I
did decide to split this simple function into three statements,
they'd likely be:

def padSequence(seq, length):
    temp = list(seq)
    temp += [None]*length
    return temp[:length]

at least the [None]*length is clearly simply than starting
from the (None,)*length tuple then casting it to a list (not
that you NEED the cast, if .extend is what you want to
use -- .extend can be called with any sequence).

But if one does decide to split it up into multiple statements,
then it may be worth distinguishing the cases of too-long
and too-short sequences; the 'homogeneization' into
"always too long" which I get by appending length copies
of None has the specific purpose of letting a single
expression work without conditionals (which are not
clear nor comfortable in expressions, though the can
often be built up from and and or applications).

def padSequence(seq, length):
    if len(seq)>=length: return seq[:length]
    return list(seq)+[None]*(length-len(seq))

This is probably the first thing that will come to mind
to a newbie, after all, and thus might be simplest for
said newbie to understand.


Alex





From rwklee at home.com  Sun Jan 21 18:56:06 2001
From: rwklee at home.com (Rick Lee)
Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 23:56:06 GMT
Subject: Markov.py
References: <94eavq$5cl$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <94eulk$dduhj$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <3A6B7716.68A62115@home.com>

You can pass a command line parms in a Mac by option-double-clicking on
the .py or .pyc file, or by option-dragging-and-dropping the .py or .pyc
file onto the python interpreter application; this opens up a dialog
where you can set all the interpreter command line options.

- Rick Lee

Emile van Sebille wrote:

> The documentation is included in the script itself, see the
> start of the test routine.  On a system with a command line
> interface, this runs as the documentation indicates,
> however, I'm not sure how command line arguments are passed
> to the Mac.  You can insert a line in the test routine:
>
>  args = [r'd:\python20\test.txt']
>
> to assign to args directly instead of reading it from the
> command line.  At least then it does something.
>
> HTH,
>
> --
>
> Emile van Sebille
> emile at fenx.com
> -------------------
>
> <cpsoct at my-deja.com> wrote in message
> news:94eavq$5cl$1 at nnrp1.deja.com...
> > I found the following script in the mac standard
> distribution (see path
> > below). It seems to be Guido's, i am not sure however, i
> am at a loss
> > as to how to use this. I was unable to run it and there is
> not
> > documentation. In otherwords, i put on my detective hat
> but was still
> > unable to get the thing to run. Anyone use this and can
> explain to me
> > how? The script is a bit to big and complex for my level
> of python kno-
> > how, but how sweet would it be to be able to make a markov
> chain in
> > python without having to re-invent the wheel. Particularly
> since i
> > wouldn't be able to in this case!
> >
> > cheers,
> > kevin parks
> > seoul, korea
> > cpsoct at lycos.com
> >



From ullrich at math.okstate.edu  Sun Jan  7 07:54:50 2001
From: ullrich at math.okstate.edu (David C. Ullrich)
Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2001 12:54:50 GMT
Subject: Migrating to perl?
References: <3Fa56.4580$of7.216286@news1.atl> <933fa1$j2i$1@newshost.accu.uu.nl> <ggd56.4652$of7.222552@news1.atl> <3a57342f.92981493@nntp.sprynet.com> <xZN56.2372$4Z.127043@news2.atl>
Message-ID: <3a5866e2.43408019@nntp.sprynet.com>

On Sat, 6 Jan 2001 18:33:22 -0500, "Joel Ricker"
<joejava at dragonat.net> wrote:

>
>David C. Ullrich wrote in message <3a57342f.92981493 at nntp.sprynet.com>...
>
>[..]
>
>>You should do what Tim said: Download it and work through the
>>tutorial. Really will take less time than reading this thread.
>
>
>Thats true.  I've spent more time keeping up with this thread than reading
>the tutorial.  Thats why I've only gotten up to Chapter 5 :)

Well never mind then. (From the rest of the thread it sounded
like you were still trying to decide whether to take the drastic
step of actually trying it...)

>>The docs are excellent. But they omit a few important
>>principles. Like "always believe Tim".
>
>
>So far I've had no reason to doubt him.
>
>Joel
>'
>
>



From m.faassen at vet.uu.nl  Thu Jan 11 09:52:49 2001
From: m.faassen at vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen)
Date: 11 Jan 2001 14:52:49 GMT
Subject: [ot]  Guttral Mumblings (Re: Web devel with python. Whats the best route?)
References: <mailman.978910629.6814.python-list@python.org> <93cqvi0191h@news1.newsguy.com> <mailman.978985688.26505.python-list@python.org> <93dfft077p@news1.newsguy.com> <mailman.979000510.4052.python-list@python.org> <slrn95ltl8.45d.scarblac@pino.selwerd.nl> <93f4q7$ji4$1@newshost.accu.uu.nl> <90259B539rcamesz@127.0.0.1> <93hpsr$k1k$2@newshost.accu.uu.nl> <90262FC49rcamesz@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <93khc1$f6o$1@newshost.accu.uu.nl>

Robert Amesz <rcameszREMOVETHIS at dds.removethistoo.nl> wrote:
> Martijn Faassen wrote:

>>Robert Amesz <rcameszREMOVETHIS at dds.removethistoo.nl> wrote:
>>> Martijn Faassen wrote:
>>
>>>> [Snip]
>>>>
>>>>Dus, voorwaards met dat Nederlands!
>>>       --------^-
>>
>>> Well, one can but hope...
>>
>>Een anglisme. Ik tiep ook veel Engels. :)

> So I've noticed. I agree, English and Dutch have a lot of words in 
> common, so it's easy to mix up the spelling of those words. (Oh, and 
> it's "anglicisme", by the way, a word for which there is no such 
> excuse, I'm afraid. <g>)

Argh, *hits himself over the head and magnles viraous Englash words
in the precoss for ged maeseru!!*

Groeten,

Martijn
-- 
History of the 20th Century: WW1, WW2, WW3?
No, WWW -- Could we be going in the right direction?


From tim.one at home.com  Wed Jan  3 23:00:45 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2001 23:00:45 -0500
Subject: Which Python homesite to refer people to ?
In-Reply-To: <t54pgq9da9gn5d@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCMEKGIGAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Jason Cunliffe]
> ...
> To rephrase my question -
>
> a:- Have the Python domain ownership issues now been sorted?
>
> b:- Is www.python.org site back, legit, holy and in caring hands?
>
> c:- Who is maintaining it?

Guido is maintaining it, alone and in his non-existent "spare time" (which
explains why updates are almost non-existent too).  I heard a rumor that we
hope to Zopeify the site and then turn it over to the community.  Can't
guess when (or even if) that will happen, though.

about-ownership-issues-have-your-lawyers-call-ours<0.9-wink>-ly y'rs
    - tim




From dsh8290 at rit.edu  Wed Jan  3 17:36:18 2001
From: dsh8290 at rit.edu (D-Man)
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2001 17:36:18 -0500
Subject: problem compiling Python 2.0 on Sun Solaris
In-Reply-To: <3a539455.17521624@news.wanadoo.fr>; from jef.mangelschots@iname.com on Wed, Jan 03, 2001 at 09:10:44PM +0000
References: <3a539455.17521624@news.wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <20010103173618.B7037@westsidecnc.rh.rit.edu>

The tarball should have Unix-style line endings.

In anycase you can use the Dos2Unix program that will remove the
erroneous <wink> 0x0A 's from the files.

If you don't have it, a not very robust one could be written in very
little time.  (actually, you could probably use sed to do it).

HTH,
-D

On Wed, Jan 03, 2001 at 09:10:44PM +0000, Jef Mangelschots wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I just downloaded the sources for Python 2.0 from 
> http://www.python.org/ftp/python/2.0/BeOpen-Python-2.0.tar.gz
> 
> ALL the text files are unrecognizable to my system because each line
> is ended with 0x0D 0x0A, common for Windows NT systems, but not for
> Unix systems.
> 
> Does anybody have a suggestion ?



From erno-news at erno.iki.fi  Mon Jan 15 12:50:49 2001
From: erno-news at erno.iki.fi (Erno Kuusela)
Date: 15 Jan 2001 19:50:49 +0200
Subject: Web devel with python. Whats the best route?
References: <mailman.978910629.6814.python-list@python.org> <93cqvi0191h@news1.newsguy.com> <kuofxhi4d2.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi> <93om7l$p6s$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <kusnmmfs6a.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi> <93t6bv$pj$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <kud7dpg247.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi> <93uqu302sdf@news1.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <ku4rz0g0w6.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>

In article <93uqu302sdf at news1.newsguy.com>, "Alex Martelli"
<aleaxit at yahoo.com> writes:

| "Erno Kuusela" <erno-news at erno.iki.fi> wrote in message
| news:kud7dpg247.fsf at lasipalatsi.fi...
|     [snip]
|| that's what i said, they are a part of the information :). http
|| tries to be stateless in principle (cookies aren't part of the http
|| spec i think).

| Wrong, see RFC 2109, "HTTP State Management Mechanism".  That is
| where cookies are specified in detail.

that doesn't make them part of http :)

|| the content behind the session-unique url is perfectly cacheable by
|| intermediate proxies, unlike for cookies.

| See session "4.2.3 Controlling Caching" of rfc2109; cookies give
| you very fine-grained control of what is intended to get cached
| where (actually, the Cache-control header does that, but, it's
| designed to work with HTTP state management, i.e., cookies).

ok, i stand corrected.
        
|| a large percentage of the people i know are using either junkbuster or
|| a browser (such as mozilla and konqueror) that can enable/disable
|| cookies on a per-site basis.

| Bully for them.  If they decide that they don't want client-side
| state to be stored on their machine, I guess that makes sense for
| them; so, use the standard-specified way to offer up state for
| client-side storage (i.e., cookies) and let the users decide.

just because there's a standard for something doesn't mean it is good
or desireable.

i wonder if you're aware of the motivation behind not wanting
to accept all cookies? for some background, read
<URL:http://www.epic.org/privacy/internet/cookies/>.

i for example usually just skip sites that don't work with
my default no-cookies/no-javascript browser setting.

the url approach cannot be subverted for the use cookies
most often see.

  -- erno



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Thu Jan 18 15:44:40 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 21:44:40 +0100
Subject: parsing a file [newbie]
References: <mailman.979728198.29644.python-list@python.org> <t%o96.174$eI2.99668@ruti.visi.com> <_fp96.178$eI2.100474@ruti.visi.com> <947jg4$55r$1@troll.powertech.no>
Message-ID: <947kn701j0k@news2.newsguy.com>

"Syver Enstad" <syver at NOSPAMcyberwatcher.com> wrote in message
news:947jg4$55r$1 at troll.powertech.no...
>
> "Grant Edwards" <grante at visi.com> wrote
>  I could have used a list comprehension instead of a
> > for loop.
>
> Ouch, I feel really stupid to have to ask this question, but what the ...
is
> a list comprehension, and why is it better to use it than a for statement?

It's not necessarily better -- it may be if the gain in concision translates
into clarity.  The syntax, new to Python 2, is in the simplest case, e.g.:

    return [ <expression> for <var> in <sequence> ]

equivalent to:

    result = []
    for <var> in <sequence>:
        result.append(<expression>)
    return result

A compact yet readable single-line, expression way to express a single
high-level concept, can easily be a gain of clarity.  The conditional form:

    return [ <expression> for <var> in <sequence> if <condition> ]

equivalent to:

    result = []
    for <var> in <sequence>:
        if <condition>:
            result.append(<expression>)
    return result

can be at least as much of a clarity gain.

There is no nesting limit to the for and if clauses of the
list-comprehension
syntax, but deep nesting is often not all that clear no matter how you dice
and slice it, so you might be well-advised to refactor things if you find
more
than a couple of for clauses in a comprehension (nesting if clauses hardly
ever makes much sense, since 'if <a> if <b>' is the same as 'if <a> and
<b>').


Alex





From news at dorb.com  Mon Jan 15 21:31:03 2001
From: news at dorb.com (Darrell)
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 02:31:03 GMT
Subject: Python and Industry
References: <20010111172342.10148.00000934@ng-ca1.aol.com>
Message-ID: <HnO86.78962$_G5.11779533@typhoon.nyroc.rr.com>

I'm swimming in Python work and increasingly Zope work also.

Python is fun. Customers and their employees can be infected with this
virus.
This may be an instance of a trans human/computer virus.

Write a bunch of software and your customer will often worry about you
leaving.
Who will take care of this stuff? So they limit your tools, among other
annoying things.
When they start asking these questions, I produce one of their
Pythonized/Zombie employees.
Who nods their head up and down when asked if they could maintain this
stuff.

And the conquest continues!
I should become a distributor of introductory Python books, what a racket :)

--Darrell

"Crutoy" <crutoy at aol.com> wrote:
> Hi , does anyone know how widly in an instries does python being used ? I
> looked at the syntax of it and read some stuff on it,it's interested i
just
> want to know if it's worth learning it. Thanks




From gregj at pobox.com  Mon Jan  1 14:52:37 2001
From: gregj at pobox.com (Greg Jorgensen)
Date: Mon, 01 Jan 2001 19:52:37 GMT
Subject: A single, general looping construct? (was: why no "do : until"?)
References: <92jj3j$ff7$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <92m9pm$d19$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <B3z36.122$9s1.18804@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com> <3A4EC5B1.8912E571@engcorp.com> <x8G36.156$9s1.31209@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com> <92qc21$538$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <9e546.215669$U46.6580243@news1.sttls1.wa.home.com>

<rturpin at my-deja.com> wrote in message:

> A couple of decades ago, when the programming journals
> were full of arguments about the "right" control
> statements for structured programming, someone proposed
> a single iteration statement that generalized (a) the
> "while" statement, (b) the "do .. until" statement,
> and (c) the loop with an exit in the middle. I forget

Prime's INFO*BASIC (a version of Pick BASIC) had that loop construct. It was
one of the best things about that language.

--
Greg Jorgensen
PDXperts
Portland, Oregon, USA
gregj at pobox.com





From corey at axcelerant.com  Tue Jan 16 14:19:21 2001
From: corey at axcelerant.com (Corey)
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 19:19:21 GMT
Subject: using __init__ with params ( somewhat long )
Message-ID: <slrn969988.5uj.corey@scanner.axcelerant.com>

Greetings all!


I'm new to Python ( from 5 odd years of Perl ), so please bare with 
me...  

I'm not quite sure how to go about defining a "proper" Python class 
constructor, where the user can optionaly pass a parameter, or multiple 
parameters at instantiation, as a shortcut to initializing the object's
attributes in one pass, rather than using multiple 'set' methods after
instantiation.

For instance, if I'm creating a class called MyClass, with attributes
myattr1, myattr2 and myattr3, and methods set_myattr1, get_myattr1,
etc., rather than first creating a MyClass object and *then* calling 
the proper 'set' method for each attribute, I'd like to do one or both
of two things:


1 - Allow a dictionary to be passed to __init__, containing as keys
    some or all of the attributes, along with their values of course.

such as:


class MyClass:

	def __init__(self, dictionary):


		# the below could not *possibly* be considered Good(tm)
		self.__myattr1 = dictionary['myattr1']
		self.__myattr2 = dictionary['myattr2']
		self.__myattr3 = dictionary['myattr3']


attr_dict = { 'myattr1': 'goober', 'myattr3': 'lame' }

myobj = MyClass(attr_dict)

...


What if dictionary is not provided? Use an if statement first?
Make dictionary a named parameter with a default of None?

What if dictionary is provided, but does not have one of the
keys? Use more if statements to test their existance with has_key?
Use a for statement to iterate through each provided key and
define 'None' for those that weren't included?

And what if dictionary contained MyAttr1 or MYATTR1 or myaTtr1?
I would like the user to not worry about case...

My constructor seems to be getting really big at that point, just
to facilitate for some convienience to the user... 

What I'm looking for is what, if any, "standard", short-hand Pythonesque
ways of doing this would be. Like I said, I'm new to Python and
so am unfamiliar with much of it's notations. I'd rather write this
simply and elegantly, rather than by sheer, lengthy brute-force,
or to end up with something any Python programmer would look at
and wonder what the hell I was smoking when I coded it.

Also, *should* I make dictionary a named parameter, or leave it
as a floating argument?


Further, I'd also like to include the following, in addition to
point #1, above.

2 - And/or allow named arguments to be passed into __init__, one
    for each attribute.

So that we now have:
( which still runs me into the case issue )

def __init__(self, dictionary, attr1=None, attr2=None, attr3=None):


Is this considered overkill? It seems like it to me when thinking
about it, but I'm perhaps too stuck in the Perl "There's More Than 
One Way To Do It" mindset... and so want to make this class as easy 
to use as possible within the context/methodology of which it gets 
utilized.


Thanks a ton for your kind advice and insight.


Beers,

Corey





From MarkH at ActiveState.com  Fri Jan 19 15:34:13 2001
From: MarkH at ActiveState.com (Mark Hammond)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 20:34:13 GMT
Subject: win ce and python
References: <e026ZYXgAHA.268@cpmsnbbsa07> <u2Z96.107219$n%.3577043@news20.bellglobal.com>
Message-ID: <94a8c5$31l$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

In article <u2Z96.107219$n%.3577043 at news20.bellglobal.com>,
  Bryan Mongeau <bryan at eevolved.com> wrote:
> tony roth wrote:
>
> > is there anything going on with python and win ce devices
> > it seems to be kinda dead.  Any ideas or suggestions.

> Kinda strange how no one has answered your question yet,
> Tony. Seems as if python for Windows CE is alive and well at
>
> http://www.digicool.com/~brian/PythonCE/index.html

>From that page:
The current release of Python CE is 1.0b1, released 17 July, 1998.

So I dont believe "alive and well" is a reasonable description of that
port :-)

A later version can be found at
http://starship.python.net/crew/mhammond/ce/ - and you can find a link
to the egroups mailing list.  However, there has been no recent
activity (other than people asking if there is any activity :-)

Mark.


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From phd at phd.pp.ru  Tue Jan 16 10:59:07 2001
From: phd at phd.pp.ru (Oleg Broytmann)
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 18:59:07 +0300 (MSK)
Subject: [ANNOUNCE] FreeImage 2.0.0 out!
In-Reply-To: <20010116104035.A5509076@vislab.epa.gov>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0101161858200.20622-100000@fep132.fep.ru>

On Tue, 16 Jan 2001, Randall Hopper wrote:

> Floris van den Berg:
>  |FreeImage is designed for multimedia specialists (users of C++, Python or
>  |Magenta II) working on Windows or Linux. FreeImage doesn't work on any other
>  |platform than Windows or Linux at this moment. Support for other platforms
>  |is considered.
>  |
>  |FreeImage only compiles under Microsoft Visual C++ 6. If you want to use
>  |FreeImage with any other compiler, you will have to download the sourcecode
>  |and modify it so that it works with this new compiler. FreeImage ships with
>  |project-files for MSVC6.
>
> Curious.  It compiles only with MSVC++6.0, yet works on Windows and Linux (??)

   It compiles on Linux, but not on *BSD? :))) Cannot believe it. :)

Oleg.
----
     Oleg Broytmann            http://phd.pp.ru/            phd at phd.pp.ru
           Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN.




From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Jan 12 04:11:28 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 10:11:28 +0100
Subject: is Python fully object oriented ?
References: <20010110184830.13286.00000826@ng-fg1.aol.com> <3A5E5C21.3E036BFE@intelligenesis.net> <3A5E935D.CF641658@dcube-resource.be> <mailman.979279694.10695.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <93mhr60e7e@news1.newsguy.com>

"Ben Hutchison" <benh at intelligenesis.net> wrote in message
news:mailman.979279694.10695.python-list at python.org...
    [snip]
> > About a year
> > ago, I discovered Python and have since then written thousands of lines
> > of Python code, yet have not once experienced the typing of "self." to
> > be overhead,
>
> Im sure you grow used to it, but Im not convinced its preferable. My
general
> preference, shared by many programmers I suggest, is that extraneous code
be
> minimized.

Right, but scope clarification isn't "extraneous" -- it's as simple as this.

> That also seems to be a theme in pythons design, I notice. Its perfectly
> legal to explictly use "this" everywhere in C++/Java if you like it that
way, you
> just arent forced to.

And by 'not being forced to', the scope of a non-explicitly-scope-clarified
symbol can become very mysterious (particularly in C++).  Are you _sure_,
when you see an undecorated symbol in code you're maintaining or porting,
that the interpretation of subtle and refined scoping rules is perfectly
aligned between...:
    a. the original coder,
    b. intervening maintainers,
    c. yourself,
    d. future maintainers,
    e. the original compiler,
    f. the current compiler,
    g. future compilers,
    h. the ISO Standard...?

What with 'Koenig lookup' and the distinction in templates between
dependent and nondependent symbols, it DOES get subtle indeed -- most
particularly because the rules shifted somewhat (subtly, of course:-),
around standardization time, to facilitate precompilation of templates
(portions thereof, at least).  In fact, this makes lookup of such
undecorated symbols one critical issue to watch out for when porting,
if any compiler or coder is involved whose 'standard compliance' you
cannot entirely vouchsafe for.  Out of 100 very good C++ coders I know,
there is NONE I'd be 100% certain will get all such lookup issues right,
considering occasional coding performed in low-caffeine situations --
and that does include myself, Brainbench MVP for C++, 'reference guru'
for all C++ language/compiler issues for my employers, and with over
a decade of C++ experience.

It's inevitable that a language as rich and complex as C++ will have
obscure, dusty corners just waiting to trap the unwary, of course. But
it's one thing to worry about, say, "pointers to members in templates
where a virtual base, and overloads, may or may not be present" --
*that* kind of obscurity can normally be finessed by sticking to a
'safe' (ha!) subset of the language (a good idea, given the bugs that
DO about in popular compilers, related to such 'corners').  But, when
something as bread and butter as "what does `foo' refer to here" gets
involved, now THAT becomes a really sticky situation.  You'll never
get C++ users to agree to never code just 'foo' but always, more
explicitly, this->foo, AClass::foo, ::foo, etc (and if you did you'd
have problems, since namespace-transparence is SO important in many
C++ usage contexts!).

Java isn't _quite_ as thorny, by a long shot (no namespaces existing
across classes, no multiple inheritance of implementation, it's an
error if a local variable's name 'shadows' an outer-nested homonym --
a combination of many such limitations and restrictions does help in
clarifying things wrt C++ name-lookup rules!).

But Python's choice (historically inspired, I believe, by Modula-3)
is even simpler and more straightforward (it will get slightly less
so when nested-scopes are added, as it seems they'll be, but only
marginally so, we can hope).


> > > * Is Pythons leading underscore mechanism more of a convention?
> >
> > > * It is strong enough to build security mechanisms on?
> >
> > Even the C++ support for public/protected/private access is not strong
> > enough to enforce security. <snip>
>
> In other words, no. However, Java's is. private members really are very
private, and
> this gives the programmer design options not available perhaps in Python.
IMO, cases
> where you simply cant do something, by any technique, in a language, are
ones to
> watch out for. Possibly python could benefit from a strong private
modifier.

Not really, because Python relies on a completely different approach
to "build security mechanisms on" -- see Chapter 16, "Restricted
Execution", in the online Python Library Reference.  Java's approach
to security is hardly a shining beacon for the world, IMHO -- it's
still to be proven that the security mechanisms it built on top of
its "very private members" are yet solid, despite mucho patching
and reworking since their very first release.

I forget the origin of the quote, but -- "there are two approaches
to [coding]: make it so complex there are no obvious flaws, or,
make it so simple there are obviously no flaws".  When security
is involved, you definitely want the SECOND approach (the slant
of the quote, of course, is clearly that you just about always
should prefer the second, but security issues make that choice
particularly apt:-).

Re "cases where you simply can't do something, by any technique,
in a language": what about binary (no library mods allowed) reuse
of library code using "really very private" variables, in Java,
when it turns out the library's design isn't _quite_ perfect and
its author has omitted to provide an accessor for a little piece
of state you desperately need to know...?  Of course, we all know
library designers ARE always-right, perfect, superhuman beings,
so the issue is merely theoretical, but, if these are indeed the
"cases ... to watch out for", this one would seem interesting.

Anyway, security definitely is NOT something you "can't do by
any technique" in Python.  The language itself, here as in so
many other places, provides very simple, usable infrastructure;
you design or adopt modules using and wrapping that for the
specific purposes of your application, depending on the exact
nature of the 'untrusted code' you're dealing with.


> Except security. And in some domains, where you have someone elses
untrusted code
> executing, that really does matter. Python can prevent accidental access
to private
> fields but not a deliberate attempt. When people consider building very
large
> systems from python, they surely will encounter this barrier. It may
prevent pythons
> use where it would otherwise be appropriate.

People _have_ built very large systems in Python, but security
can be an issue even in pretty-small ones -- any time you get
code snippets from the net, from an interactive user, from a
database that might have been tampered with.  And you *can*
deal securely with such untrusted code -- not claiming it's
EASY (I know of NO language that makes security truly easy:
you are hypothetically dealing with a would-be invader who must
be presumed to be at least as smart as you, remember:-), but,
it IS as DOABLE as in any other language I know.


Alex





From erno-news at erno.iki.fi  Mon Jan 22 19:07:49 2001
From: erno-news at erno.iki.fi (Erno Kuusela)
Date: 23 Jan 2001 02:07:49 +0200
Subject: IP Octet Patern Match
References: <3A6CBDC4.C5F292C9@tampabay.rr.com>
Message-ID: <kuwvbn871m.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>

In article <3A6CBDC4.C5F292C9 at tampabay.rr.com>, Kevin Fiscus
<kfiscus at tampabay.rr.com> writes:

| I am extremely new to Python.  Can anyone help me to design a script
| that will find the IP addresses from email headers and write the entire
| line where they are found to another text file?

rfc822.Message(...).getallmatchingheaders('received')

  -- erno


From katz at Glue.umd.edu  Mon Jan 15 11:11:16 2001
From: katz at Glue.umd.edu (Roy Katz)
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 11:11:16 -0500
Subject: python compiled to native in less than a year?
In-Reply-To: <kcF86.6006$J%.594457@news.flash.net>
References: <kcF86.6006$J%.594457@news.flash.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0101151106200.7702-100000@z.glue.umd.edu>

Scott, 

the problem with Python compilation is optimization;  you can "freeze" a
python program into an executable even now.  I heard it somewhere that
compiled Python would consist of nothing more than calls to Python's C
API.  Granted, that shaves off the interpreter layer, but you're still
going through the P-API.  I suspect it is the same way in JPython
(given that JPython implements the Python API in Java, am I right? (?))..



/R



On Mon, 15 Jan 2001, scotth wrote:

> Hello,
> 
> Since the new .NET platform from MS will take all the compatible .NET
> languages and transform them to an IL (intermediate language ???), then take
> the IL to native compiled code, this means that python will be compiled, but
> only for the Windows platform.
> 
> Is what I have said correct, or have I missed something?  This would give
> python a huge boost!
> 
> Scott
> 
> 
> 



From barry at digicool.com  Sun Jan 28 01:21:23 2001
From: barry at digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 01:21:23 -0500
Subject: Our Exception Standards --  What do you think?
References: <4UKc6.12291$Sl.591319@iad-read.news.verio.net>
Message-ID: <14963.47715.844551.58949@anthem.wooz.org>

>>>>> "DF" == Doug Fort <dougfort at downright.com> writes:

    DF> The Library Manual recommends deriving all exceptions from the
    DF> system Exception class.  This class has a member called 'args'
    DF> which is a tuple of the arguments presented in its
    DF> constructor.  The default __str__ operator simply returns the
    DF> args tuple as a string.

    DF>   ('aaa', 'bbb') I propose that we follow this standard, with
    DF> the enhancement of overloading the __str__ operator of
    DF> individual exception classes.

While I think it's a good idea to derive your application specific
exceptions from Exception, I don't think you necessarily need to use
its constructor.  The Exception class was carefully designed for
backwards compatibility but you don't have that problem.

When I design my exception classes, I usually create one derived class
per subsystem and then derive all my further exception classes from
those.  E.g.

Exception
 +-> ListError
 |    +-> UnknownListError
 |    +-> CorruptListError
 |    +-> ...
 |
 +-> AuthenticationError
 |    +-> BadPasswordError
 |    +-> CookieError
 |    |    +-> ExpiredCookieError
 |    |    +-> InvalidCookieError
 |    +-> ...
 |
 +-> ...

Then if I know that I'm going to raise the exception with some
specific arguments, I create an __init__() to accept only those
arguments (and a __str__() to print something reasonable using those
arguments).  I often do not call Exception.__init__() in my own
classes's constructor.

Cheers,
-Barry



From tim.one at home.com  Sat Jan 27 00:55:58 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 00:55:58 -0500
Subject: . Python 2.1 function attributes
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0101262335230.7677-100000@y.glue.umd.edu>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCEEJKILAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Roy Katz]
> My question is this:
>
>    what is the point of letting functions have attributes when
>    the same role is fulfilled cleanly by classes which implement
>    __call__()?

Akin to the same point as for letting people write

    x + 2

when they could be restricted to writing

    x + 1 + 1

That is, convenience, clarity, efficiency and naturalness.  As PEP 228 says,
people *have* been abusing docstrings for all sorts of things, despite that
they're well aware of class-base techniques.  If I want to associate data
(other than a docstring, which is easy) with a function or method, first
burying the function in an artificial singleton class and then using an
instance of that class instead is simply convoluted in comparison.




From cxu1 at nd.edu  Wed Jan 24 21:05:28 2001
From: cxu1 at nd.edu (Changsen Xu)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 21:05:28 -0500
Subject: How to get shell screen out from python?
Message-ID: <3A6F89E8.F3629152@nd.edu>

Hi,

Now I wish to get the output from running a shell command, I
can't find an easy way in python but use pipe:
    p=popen('lp *.ps'); t=p.read(); p.close()

while in tcsh, it may just be:
    set t =  `lp *.ps`

Any of you can teach me an easier way in python ?

Thanks,



From dsh8290 at rit.edu  Tue Jan 23 17:17:46 2001
From: dsh8290 at rit.edu (D-Man)
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 17:17:46 -0500
Subject: How do I know all thrown exceptions of a function?
In-Reply-To: <94imre$7dd$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net>; from dalke@acm.org on Mon, Jan 22, 2001 at 06:33:03PM -0700
References: <mailman.980206644.31124.python-list@python.org> <94imre$7dd$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <20010123171746.D22126@harmony.cs.rit.edu>

On Mon, Jan 22, 2001 at 06:33:03PM -0700, Andrew Dalke wrote:
| Delaney, Timothy wrote:
| >Personally, I think Java's view of exceptions (almost) makes
| >sense.
| 
| Actually, I disagree.  Consider a function which numerically
| integrates another function over a given range:
| 
| def integrate(func, x_min, x_max):
|   ...
|   will compute func(x) for several values of x between [x_min, x_max]
|   ...
| 
[snip]
| What is the best way to handle this unexpected exception in the Java
| way?

int integrate( <can't have a function-pointer anyways ;-)> func ,
	float x_min ,
	float x_max ) 
	throws Exception
{
	...
}

Is one way.

| 
| I actually don't know.  As far as I can tell, the only way to
| do it is let integrate raise a specific "CannotIntegrate"
| exception, then implement a wrapper, like for MyCache, which
| converts any non-numeric exception in the CannotIntegrate
| exception, as in
| 

Is another way.

|   try:
|     y = self.func(x)
|   except (DivideByZeroException, other expected math errors ...):
|     raise
|   except (SystemExit, KeyboardInterrupt):  # allow forced breaks
|     raise
|   except:
|     .. convert to a CannotIntegrate exception ..
|   return y
| 
| To me, this is ugly and error prone.  (Is this really what
| you need to do for Java - the Feb. Dr. Dobb's comparison
| between Java and C# suggests so.)  Thus, I would rather write
| my code to be exception safe, in that it gracefully accepts
| any exception, then to declare every exception type.
| 

I agree that it is ugly to have to declare all possible exception
types.  That's not to say you shouldn't document it, but it should be
/documented/ not forced by the /compiler/.

The C++ method isn't entirely bad (as Alex mentioned), and the new
"attributes of functions" feature in 2.1 may be extended to support
this[1].  This would allow programmatic access to the exception
documentation.

-D

[1]  I don't know if there are any real plans for it, but I see it as
     a consistent and reasonable way to add it.



From cg at schlund.de  Tue Jan  9 05:43:18 2001
From: cg at schlund.de (Carsten Gaebler)
Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2001 11:43:18 +0100
Subject: Determine whether STDIN is gzipped
References: <3A5ADB84.194BAD4E@schlund.de> <mailman.979035069.28066.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3A5AEB46.29E89DFA@schlund.de>

Andreas Jung wrote:

> 
> Something like the following should work (I assume we can read all
> data from STDIN in one read() call):
> 

Okay, I should have mentioned that I can't afford reading all data at
once into memory because if it is not gzipped it can be several ten megs
large and the program is intended to be run on a web server.

cg.


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Jan 26 08:28:39 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 14:28:39 +0100
Subject: Umlauts revisited: Now they prevent program from running
References: <94rt05$tbe$1@newsreaderg1.core.theplanet.net>
Message-ID: <94ruo702941@news2.newsguy.com>

"Franz GEIGER" <fgeiger at datec.at> wrote in message
news:94rt05$tbe$1 at newsreaderg1.core.theplanet.net...
    [snip]
> (ActiveState 2.0 on NT4) by simply typing "fld.Value".
>
> It displays u'St\374ck'.
>
> Conversion into a Python string by applying print or str() yields:
>
> "Traceback (innermost last):
>   File "<interactive input>", line 1, in ?
> UnicodeError: ASCII encoding error: ordinal not in range(128)"
>
> Any idea how to overcome this?

try, for example, using fld.Value.encode('iso-8859-1') -- that
should return the Python string you desire, i.e. 'St\374ck'.


Alex





From msandin at remove_this.hotmail.com  Sun Jan 21 06:57:38 2001
From: msandin at remove_this.hotmail.com (Martin Sandin)
Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 12:57:38 +0100
Subject: Tabbing/Spaces
References: <mailman.980018603.30482.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <94eiui$kj8$1@news.gu.se>

I'm sorry for originally _mailing_ this answer to Tim Peters at first. What
happens if you hit the wrong button in your news reader. Me bad.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Peters" <tim.one at home.com>
> I assume you're using a supernaturally feeble editor, then.  That's fine!
> What you do in your own bedroom with the lights off isn't our concern.
> Well, at least not yet -- now that Guido is married, I hear he's thinking
> about guiding people in more aspects of their lives <wink>.

Well. The editor I use can turn tabs into spaces, no problem there. The
reason to use tabs is mainly the opposit, I have to hit "delete" four times
to move it _back_ one indent level (and I don't have to learn a special case
for deleting indent levels, as a macro would be). With spaces I can also
place the cursor on all the spaces in between indendation levels which makes
moving the cursor around with the cursor keys slower as I have lot of
"unnecessary" positions to place it in. As a last point it's also easier for
someone else to change how they want my indented code to look as they can
just change the tab length. Not so easy with spaces;-)

And if I was actually working with individuals who didn't think those were
adequate reasons, I guess I could easily add a couple of macros to my editor
to turn tabs into spaces and the other way around when I get the code
back... as the editor I use does support regexps=)

Point taken. But I must protest if you think of my bedroom practises as
"dirty" as I've got rational reasons for them. How many people today are
actually using editors that _lack_ the ability to change how long a tab is?
Now that's a feeble editor in my mind =)


-
Martin - yours friendly, and humbly lowly as a Python newbie, uhm-ly
come.to/vague




From sparhawk at gmx.at  Thu Jan 25 04:18:25 2001
From: sparhawk at gmx.at (Gerhard W. Gruber)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 10:18:25 +0100
Subject: HTTPLIB Proxy
Message-ID: <3A6FEF61.BAA6587C@gmx.at>

Is it possible to use a proxy with the httplib object? How do I have to
set it up?
-- 
Bye,
   Gerhard

CocoNet GmbH Erkrath
email: gerhard.gruber at coconet.de
privat: sparhawk at gmx.at

If you think education is expensive, try ignorance!


From lisowski.tomasz at sssa.NOSPAM.com.pl  Tue Jan 30 09:00:17 2001
From: lisowski.tomasz at sssa.NOSPAM.com.pl (Tomasz Lisowski)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 15:00:17 +0100
Subject: Tkinter: button image not displayed!?
Message-ID: <956h9g$5gl$1@news.tpi.pl>

Hi,

I try to get familiar with the Tkinter GUI. In the following piece of code I
try to load two GIF images as button pictures. The result is, that the
buttons are displayed, but without pictures, and are not working (pressing
them does nothing!).The picture files names, and their path are correct. I
am using Python 2.0 on Windows NT. I would be grateful for any hints ...

from Tkinter import *

master = Tk()

def f():
   print "Called!"

Label(master, text="X min:").grid(row=0, column=0, sticky=E)
x_min = Entry(master, width=20)
x_min.grid(row=0, column=1)
Label(master, text="X max:").grid(row=0, column=2, sticky=E)
x_max = Entry(master, width=20)
x_max.grid(row=0, column=3)

Label(master, text="Y min:").grid(row=1, column=0, sticky=E)
y_min = Entry(master, width=20, state=DISABLED)
y_min.grid(row=1, column=1)
Label(master, text="Y max:").grid(row=1, column=2, sticky=E)
y_max = Entry(master, width=20, state=DISABLED)
y_max.grid(row=1, column=3)

fr = Frame(master)
Button(fr, text="Draw", width=7, command=f).grid(row=0, column=0, padx=2)
zi = Button(fr, text="Zoom in", width=7, command=f)
zi.grid(row=0, column=1, padx=2)
Button(fr, text="Scale", width=7, command=f).grid(row=0, column=2, padx=2)

## ------  the problem  lies somewhere below -------
Button(fr, image=PhotoImage(file="H:\\Back.gif", master=fr), command =
f).grid(row=0, column=3, padx=2)
Button(fr, text="Add", width=7, command=f).grid(row=1, column=0, padx=2)
Button(fr, text="Walk", width=7, command=f).grid(row=1, column=1, padx=2)
Button(fr, text="Exit", width=7, command=master.destroy).grid(row=1,
column=2, padx=2)
Button(fr, image=PhotoImage(file="H:\\Forward.gif", master=fr), command =
f).grid(row=1, column=3, padx=2)
fr.grid(row=0, column=4, rowspan=2, sticky=E, pady=4)

master.mainloop()

Thanks in advance

Tomasz Lisowski





From dale at out-think.NOSPAMco.uk  Thu Jan 11 12:08:49 2001
From: dale at out-think.NOSPAMco.uk (Dale Strickland-Clark)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 17:08:49 +0000
Subject: One bug and yer out with Pythonwin debugging?
References: <G8H66.20$c6.12956@news1.rdc1.mb.home.com> <93i7mu$5d8$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <rtpr5tcp0foljtmd5n66ii1r5uqgk5ber4@4ax.com>

Mark Hammond <mhammond at my-deja.com> wrote:

>In article <G8H66.20$c6.12956 at news1.rdc1.mb.home.com>,
>  "Parzival Herzog" <parz at home.com> wrote:
>
>> Is there anyway to continue the Pythonwin IDE session after
>> an exception occurs in the debugged app?
>
>This problem is unique to Pythonwin and wxPython.  It is a known
>problem, but apparently the wxPython guys don't use Pythonwin, and I
>don't use wxPython, making a fix difficult.
>
>Mark.
>
>
>Sent via Deja.com
>http://www.deja.com/

I wouldn't have said it was *unique* to that combination. 

I have found that rerunning complex programs after a failure in PythonWin is not always rewarding
:-)

We have put together a basic test harness to run our suite outside of PythonWin in a Console window.
We still use PythonWin for development and the debugger but restart it after debugging.

HTH


--
Dale Strickland-Clark
Out-Think Ltd
Business Technology Consultants


From Gareth.McCaughan at pobox.com  Mon Jan 22 23:40:18 2001
From: Gareth.McCaughan at pobox.com (Gareth McCaughan)
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 04:40:18 +0000
Subject: Markov.py
References: <94eavq$5cl$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <slrn96q2pi.1i7.Gareth.McCaughan@g.local>

cpsoct at my-deja.com wrote:
> I found the following script in the mac standard distribution (see path
> below). It seems to be Guido's, i am not sure however, i am at a loss
> as to how to use this. I was unable to run it and there is not
> documentation. In otherwords, i put on my detective hat but was still
> unable to get the thing to run. Anyone use this and can explain to me
> how? The script is a bit to big and complex for my level of python kno-
> how, but how sweet would it be to be able to make a markov chain in
> python without having to re-invent the wheel. Particularly since i
> wouldn't be able to in this case!

It looks like a dissociated-press thing to me. You feed it
text; it uses the relative frequencies of tuples of characters,
or words, in the text to build a Markov chain, and then it
runs the Markov chain for a while to produce output text
that has a spooky resemblance to the input text but doesn't
actually make any sense. (Of course, some input texts appear
to be invariant under this treatment...)

Rather than storing successor states with their probabilities,
for each state it associates a list of all the successors that
have been seen. Then, to choose a successor in any given state,
it just picks a random element of the list. So the Markov class
doesn't represent a general Markov chain, just one with rational
probabilities -- and rational probabilities with large denominators
would be prohibitively expensive to implement. :-)

It looks like rather old code, from the fact that it defines
its own "tuple" function and uses string.splitfields instead
of string.split .

As for how to use it: you say something like

    python markov.py -3 some-file-of-text

and it thinks for a bit and then starts spewing out text.
Here's some of what it produced when I fed it a chunk of the
Bible. (Readers of delicate sensibility are assured that
there is no blasphemy in what follows...)

    1 "Eat you things of thy hard of you, or thing, and which was then the
    raim, "David have morit of Kei'lainst go all you shall befor imale cond
    with outside one freskin of the to their new whom to the contill deemen
    head their fath, Nabouth to him, to younts uncle, sonsecred its by man by
    David not can as and from to a dringlease, and hings. 14 

That was character-by-character. Here's word-by-word (with the -w option).

    1 So these three men ceased to answer Job, because he was too afraid
    of his family and the men of the sons of Israel; and Aaron shall take
    upon himself any guilt incurred in the holy city were two hundred
    pomegranates, in two rows round about; and so with the other held his
    weapon.

Does that make sense? (Well, of course the answer is "no", but
I was referring to what *I* wrote...)

-- 
Gareth McCaughan  Gareth.McCaughan at pobox.com
sig under construc


From fredrik at effbot.org  Thu Jan 11 15:19:07 2001
From: fredrik at effbot.org (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 20:19:07 GMT
Subject: BUG Python 2.0 FreeBSD compile problem
References: <mailman.979232779.12150.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <%yo76.5561$Qb7.774534@newsb.telia.net>

Chris Watson wrote:
> > (still says "Resolution: None", but I'm pretty sure a fixed
> > was checked into CVS a couple of days ago...  if you can
> > verify that the CVS version builds cleanly, let us know!)
>
> You know guys there is a reason why FreeBSD has a ports tree :-)

if I don't run FreeBSD, how does a ports tree help me verify
that the current CVS version builds cleanly on FreeBSD?

Confused /F




From thelazydogsback at my-deja.com  Sun Jan 28 21:49:46 2001
From: thelazydogsback at my-deja.com (thelazydogsback at my-deja.com)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 02:49:46 GMT
Subject: Tkinter vs wxPython: your opinions?
References: <3A6F899F.E164F628@home.com>
Message-ID: <952lo9$qme$1@nnrp1.deja.com>


Thanks for asking this question - I figured it would come up soon (and
probably has in the past, but I'm new here...) Even more thanks for
those who answered - but I have a few questions that I didn't see
raised:

(1) Does one toolkit behave better in a multi-threaded application than
another? In addition to the design of the toolkit, any kit that uses
native widgets has native restrictions on threading and the GUI (e.g.,
only "main" thread talks to the GUI, etc.), so I'd guess that self-draw
GUIs would have a chance of behaving better here. Also OS-threads would
have more issues than stackless "microthreads" where re-entrency would
be the biggest problem (?). When threads spawned from the main thread
need to update GUI state, what is the standard method used? Does wx's
doc/view architecture make this more straightforward?

(2) I assume I could have an app the used both wx & tk at the window
level, but is it possible to host WX inside of Tk, or visa-versa, at
the frame and/or widget level?

(Disclaimer - I've only done the simplist tk experiments, and have only
looked at the wx docs.)

thanks,
mike


In article <3A6F899F.E164F628 at home.com>,
  rwklee at home.com wrote:
> It has to be cross platform between Linux and Windows, so it  seems
that
> my choices are Tkinter and wxPython.
>
> Your experience, thoughts, opinion, on the relative merits and
pitfalls
> of each?
>
> My particular case:  A GUI that has 5 windows max., will incorporate a
> xmlrpc client, will have a python object browser, being able to build
> data entry screens on the fly from a description of an object's
> attributes, programmer not familiar with either toolkit.
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> - Rick Lee
>
>


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From hamish_lawson at yahoo.co.uk  Tue Jan 16 12:51:52 2001
From: hamish_lawson at yahoo.co.uk (Hamish Lawson)
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 17:51:52 GMT
Subject: Where to find the 'dbi' and 'odbc' modules?
References: <mailman.979634964.31590.python-list@python.org> <941b3c$2jv$1@reader1.imaginet.fr>
Message-ID: <9421nk$qb$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

> dbi is no (AFAIK) a module/package, it's the "official" python API for
> playing with databases. odbc module is available with Mark Hammon's
> Win32 extensions

There is in fact a dbi module in the Win32 extensions along with odbc
(demonstrated below), which is what I suspect the documentation was
referring to. I believe the official API is actually called DB-API.

>>> import dbi, odbc
>>> dir(dbi)
['DATE', 'NUMBER', 'RAW', 'ROWID', 'STRING', 'TYPES', '__doc__', '__file
__', '__name__', 'dataError', 'dbDate', 'dbRaw', 'dbiDate', 'dbiRaw', 'i
ntegrityError', 'internalError', 'noError', 'opError', 'progError']
>>> dir(odbc)
['__doc__', '__file__', '__name__', 'error', 'odbc']
>>>


Hamish Lawson


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From dsh8290 at rit.edu  Wed Jan 17 19:07:06 2001
From: dsh8290 at rit.edu (D-Man)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 19:07:06 -0500
Subject: Curses module for Python 2.0 for Windows NT
In-Reply-To: <0056900015212200000002L002*@MHS>; from jurgen.defurne@philips.com on Wed, Jan 17, 2001 at 09:23:42AM +0100
References: <0056900015212200000002L002*@MHS>
Message-ID: <20010117190706.G23790@harmony.cs.rit.edu>

On Wed, Jan 17, 2001 at 09:23:42AM +0100, jurgen.defurne at philips.com wrote:
[snip]

| Is there a curses add-on available for the Win32 binaries ? It sure
| isn't part of the distribution I am using, which is still the BeOpen
| version of Python 2.0

Mutt uses curses.  I built mutt on a NT box with cygwin.  If you want,
you could grab the python sources and build it against cygwin to get
(n)curses support.  If you do that, you will create a dependency of
python on cygwin.  Cygwin will allow you to still link against MS libs
like COM stuff (I think) but not MSVCRT (unless you pick MSVCRT
instead of glibc).

Otherwise I think you're stuck with DOS terminals (and custom
interfaces made with python) instead of ncurses terminals.

HTH,
-D




From fuess at home.com  Sat Jan 27 18:15:36 2001
From: fuess at home.com (David A. Fuess)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 23:15:36 GMT
Subject: ASP + SQL Server + Time object problem
References: <93np4p$lm$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <slrn95vghv.aqj.tim@degree.ath.cx> <93p88d013hg@news1.newsguy.com> <93vavc$ml0$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <qlRzOhvjqMzonkJ9cGrXbeWq5mV4@4ax.com>

There are several problems with the use of strftime here. When using
the <time object> delivered by SQL server the datum is not the same as
the UNIX datum and the float(<time object>) returns days instead of
seconds. Also, as was mentioned before, even after correcting for the
datum difference you cannot use dates before the UNIX datum Jan 1,
1970.

For SQL Server 7 I found the datum conversion to be
	Unixtime = (float(contents)-25569.0)*86400+time.timezone
I had to put in the timezone correction because SQL Server was
converting times to GMT. Then I had to abandon the whole approach
because many of the dates in my database are pre 1970!

I found the best way to deal with These objects is the Format method.
By trial and error I deduced that it uses the same specifiers as
strftime.

Dave

abramsjc at my-deja.com wrote:

>Hi again, thanks for the responses.
>Here's what I came across. I should have specified that I import a module
>and within a class in that module is where the problem was being
>experienced. I read the docs by that genuis guy Mark, but trying to use
>the PyTime objects gave me errors about no __float__ attribute and other
>errors when trying different methods.
>
>> To return a string formatted as the long date in control panel
>> time.strftime("%#c", time.localtime(int(timeObject)))
>
>See that int() conversion, that fails. What I found out that it was because
>the code lied in the module. If I return the time object to the top-level ASP
>script, the int conversion works, PyTime objects work, it all works.
>But inside that imported module nothing worked. Pretty weird. Anyone
>know why?
>
>
>
>In article <93p88d013hg at news1.newsguy.com>,
>  "Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote:
>> "Tim Hammerquist" <tim at degree.ath.cx> wrote in message
>> news:slrn95vghv.aqj.tim at degree.ath.cx...
>>     [snip]
>> > Anyone in the newsgroup familiar with the object model of a "time
>> > object"?
>>
>> Hammond's docs included with win32all document it this way:
>>
>> PyTime Object
>> A Python object, representing an instant in time.
>>
>> Comments
>> A PyTime object is used primarily when exchanging date/time information with
>> other COM objects.
>> Using int(timeObject) will return an integer compatible with the time
>> module.
>>
>> Example
>> To return a simple string
>> time.ctime(int(timeObject))
>>
>> To return a string formatted as the long date in control panel
>> time.strftime("%#c", time.localtime(int(timeObject)))
>>
>> See Also
>> pywintypes::Time
>>
>> Methods
>> Format
>> Formats the time value
>> __int__
>> Used when an integer representation of the time object is required.
>> __float__
>> Used when a floating point representation of the time object is required.
>> __print__
>> Used when the time object is printed. tp_print
>> __cmp__
>> Used when time objects are compared. tp_compare
>> __hash__
>> Used when the hash value of an time object is required tp_hash
>>
>> Seems pretty good to me -- what's missing?
>>
>> Alex
>>
>>
>
>
>Sent via Deja.com
>http://www.deja.com/



From tim.one at home.com  Sat Jan 20 14:22:19 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 14:22:19 -0500
Subject: Tabbing/Spaces
In-Reply-To: <94bjhl$as2$1@news.gu.se>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCMEBBIKAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Tim]
> *Mixing* tabs and spaces is insane in Python source.

[Martin Sandin]
> Insane it might be, but it is what is "recommended" in GvR's style guide:

Note:  that's at

     http://www.python.org/doc/essays/styleguide.html

As the subtitle says, "A Foolish Consistency is the Hobgoblin of Little
Minds".  Mixing tabs and spaces didn't *used* to be insane.  Proof:  Else
Guido wouldn't have written what he did <wink>.  But our Benevolent Dictator
has sanely redefined sanity on this point, although he hasn't yet gotten
around to updating the old style guide.

More recent is the short blurb for patch contributors, at

    http://www.python.org/patches/style.html

That's a bit out of date too, but is a better reflection of the Unchangeable
Truth today.

> ...
> Me? A tab is 4 spaces, I hard tab indent my code. It's the easiest
> and fastest way for moving my code tab levels.

I assume you're using a supernaturally feeble editor, then.  That's fine!
What you do in your own bedroom with the lights off isn't our concern.
Well, at least not yet -- now that Guido is married, I hear he's thinking
about guiding people in more aspects of their lives <wink>.

"guiding"-is-a-contraction-of-"guido-ing"-so-it's-his-right-ly y'rs  - tim




From fredrik at effbot.org  Sat Jan 27 06:47:24 2001
From: fredrik at effbot.org (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 11:47:24 GMT
Subject: defining class
References: <LPENKAFBJDPOFHMCEBOMIEFJCDAA.aleksei.guzev@bigfoot.com> <mailman.980516552.9481.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <gzyc6.9476$Qb7.1381214@newsb.telia.net>

Chris Gonnerman wrote:
> That's because it isn't easy, AFAIK.  Check out the Boost Python Library at
> http://www.boost.org/libs/python/doc/index.html; on the page on writing
> extensions they say:
>
> > Another obstacle that most people run into eventually when extending
> > Python is that there's no way to make a true Python class in an extension
> > module.

"no way" is a little strong, given that Python's "exceptions" module is
written in C, and it defines more classes than most other modules...

see the make_class and populate_methods in Python/exceptions.c
for details.

Cheers /F




From cpsoct at my-deja.com  Sat Jan 20 01:33:03 2001
From: cpsoct at my-deja.com (cpsoct at my-deja.com)
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 06:33:03 GMT
Subject: help with code for combinations/permutations
References: <mailman.979763239.20136.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <94bbev$vai$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

It is not my question, but if i may be permitted, i think i can ask get
more specific. Or rather try to suggest one possibility. Do you perhaps
mean something that would be like this:

permute(list, n) -- return the nth permutation of a list.

Generates an indexed series of permutations of a list. The permutations
repeat after the factorial of the list size.

x=[1,2,3,4]

permute(x, 0)  --> [1,2,3,4]
permute(x,1)  --> [2,1,3,4]
.
.
.
permute(x,24)  --> [1,2,3,4]


Is this what you mean by permutation fuction? If so that would be most
useful no?

cheers,
kevin parks
seoul, korea

kp87 at lycos.com

ps. I guess that there would have to be a limit to the size of the list
as a 32-bit number would be able to enumerate all the permutations of a
12 element list, but that would be the limit, no? your 16 item list
would be rough going no?

(i am guessing)










In article <mailman.979763239.20136.python-list at python.org>,
  "Tim Peters" <tim.one at home.com> wrote:
> [Bryan Webb]
> >     I have a list with 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16 in it,
> > I need to come up with all possible combinations of the numbers
> > in the above
> > list ie. 1 +2, 1+2+3, 1+2+3+4, 1+2+3+4+5 and so on.
> >  I will have multiple lists to deal with, larger and smaller.
> > Any help or ideas will be appreciated
>
> As the replies you got so far suggest, your request is ambiguous, and
> "combinations" is a technical term that doesn't appear to be what you
really
> have in mind.  Give us an exhaustive example with a small list.  Like
>
> x = [1, 2, 3, 4]
>
> Let's pretend you want someone to write a function f(x), that takes a
list x
> and returns whatever it is you want.  What (exactly) should f([1, 2,
3, 4])
> return?
>
> if-english-sufficed-we-wouldn't-need-to-write-programs-ly y'rs  - tim
>
>


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From tanzer at swing.co.at  Fri Jan 26 02:56:57 2001
From: tanzer at swing.co.at (Christian Tanzer)
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 08:56:57 +0100
Subject: Tkinter vs wxPython: your opinions? 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 26 Jan 2001 01:07:30 GMT."
             <3A70CDD3.3EE32FDA@home.com> 
Message-ID: <m14M3kf-000wcEC@swing.co.at>

rwklee at home.com wrote :

> Thank you all for your thoughtful posts. On reflection, I would say my
> greatest need would be:
> 
> - being able to build data entry screens on the fly from a description of
> an object's attributes
> 
> I am still very naive about this; but I would have thought the need for
> this feature would crop up frequently.  I wonder why it doesn't seem to be
> featured in the popular toolkits.  Maybe it is extremely easy for anyone to
> build, in which case would someone care to post a working example.  Thanks.

Sorry, I can't easily post working code.

But your problem is easy to solve if you use a good geometry manager,
like Tkinter's pack or grid (grid being my preferred solution). 

For Tkinter, it looks like:

    body    = Frame (...)
    entries = []
    for entry_desc in ?description of an object's attributes? :
        label = Label (master = body, text = entry_desc.name, ...)
        entry = Entry (master = body, ...)
        label.grid (column = 0, row = len (entries), ...)
        entry.grid (column = 1, row = len (entries), ...)
        entries.append (entry)
    body.grid_columnconfigure (0, weight = 1, minsize = ...)
    body.grid_columnconfigure (1, weight = 5, minsize = ...)
    boy.pack (...)

Shouldn't be any harder for a different toolkit, as long as it
offers decent geometry management.

-- 
Christian Tanzer                                         tanzer at swing.co.at
Glasauergasse 32                                       Tel: +43 1 876 62 36
A-1130 Vienna, Austria                                 Fax: +43 1 877 66 92




From chris at voodooland.net  Mon Jan 15 15:26:27 2001
From: chris at voodooland.net (Chris Watson)
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 14:26:27 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Relational Databases and Python
In-Reply-To: <ABEE81BE08ADD311B6A1009027DE908D04EFB843@conmsx03.conway.acxiom.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.21.0101151420040.63233-100000@open-systems.net>

> Greetings-
> 
> I am wanting to access a relational database via Python.  Knowing that a
> "simple" query such as "Why no "do until" statement" can generate replies
> for months, I offer the following:
> 
> *	What relational database to use?  I am constructing a routine to
> track incident reports for the volunteer fire department I run with.  I also
> want to track personnel information, training records, equipment, etc.  It
> will be a small to medium database (the databases I work with professionally
> run in the terabytes, but we spend millions on software).  I am looking at
> MySQL.  Whatever base I use must be free.

Erk. I would definately go with Postgresql here. http://www.postgresql.org
Its free, under a BSD license so you can do WHATEVER you want with it, NO
strings attached, it is relational, and is about the 2nd best DB out there
IMO underneath oracle. But who wants to waste that much dough? heh

> *	How to access the database?  I would like to use SQL via ODBC.  I
> have attempted to install the mxODBC module, but have run into trouble with
> the first step (get and install mxDateTime).  That's not a good sign.  I
> would like a simple communication to the  database (else I will write a "C"
> routine to do it for me!).  What's out there?

There is a python interface for the postgresql database. py-PyGreSQL.
It's in the FreeBSD ports tree: /usr/ports/databases/py-PyGreSQL

> *	With an eye to the future, I would like to write a Web-based system
> so that I can offer this system to other volunteer departments in the
> county.  We simply cannot afford $2500+ for reporting software (that will
> fully outfit 2 firefighters including SCBA (breathing equipment) and PASS (a
> safety device)).  Though I have talked with a couple of companies offering a
> "volunteer rate", we simply cannot afford to spend that kind of money on
> software.  How do I get started writing web apps?  I have good friends at
> work telling me that Perl is the way to go; I program both, but am partial
> to Python.

Personally I think perl leaks like a seive and is just plain ugly. But if
you are the one writing it, im sure you will the The Right Thing(tm) and
use python :-)

--
=============================================================================
-Chris Watson         (316) 326-3862 | FreeBSD Consultant, FreeBSD Geek 
Work:              scanner at jurai.net | Open Systems Inc., Wellington, Kansas
Home:  scanner at deceptively.shady.org | http://open-systems.net
=============================================================================
WINDOWS: "Where do you want to go today?"
LINUX: "Where do you want to go tomorrow?"
BSD: "Are you guys coming or what?"
=============================================================================
GNU = Gnu's Non-portable & Unstable
irc.openprojects.net #FreeBSD -Join the revolution!
ICQ: 20016186




From alan.gauld at gssec.bt.co.uk  Wed Jan 10 10:09:18 2001
From: alan.gauld at gssec.bt.co.uk (Alan Gauld)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 15:09:18 +0000
Subject: Online books
References: <mailman.979041730.32584.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3A5C7B1E.99F76B5F@gssec.bt.co.uk>

Langa Kentane wrote:
> Can anyone please suggest a site where I can find a good online book
> [something comprehensive] on python programming that I can download.

You don't say what your programming/python literacy leel is but
there 
is a mass of documentation on the python web site - several of
which 
are available as real books too.

In addition, for absolute beginners there are some tutorials
(including my own, although the master site is currently dead!)

Also the How to Think like a Computer scientist:
http://www.ibiblio.org/obp/thinkCSpy/

For Tkinter programming there is F/s guide whih is rumoured to 
be coming out as an ORA book RSN.

The manning web page has sample chapters from several of their 
books.

F/ also has his online Python book (the F-bot guide???)

That should be enough for starters!

Alan g.
http://www.crosswinds.net/~agauld/

-- 
=================================================
This post represents the views of the author 
and does not necessarily accurately represent 
the views of BT.


From sholden at holdenweb.com  Thu Jan 25 23:19:01 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 23:19:01 -0500
Subject: Graphic designers and Python programmers
Message-ID: <PY6c6.12565$oz1.130684@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>

Jason Cunliffe recently wrote:

> Since Digital Creation have a very feeble sense of web site
> usability/design, this essential liink is buried 3 levels down at:

It strikes me as interesting that technologists often seem loath to bring in
graphic designers, resulting in grotty-looking web sites (and I do not
exclude www.holdenweb.com, although in my case there's a particular designer
I have been screaming at for months to help me).

Pythoin being the sympathetic language that it is, maybe we can get a few
graphic designers to produce templates (parameterized sub-element snippets)
that we can use in Python by relatively simple substitutions such as the
martellibot's suggestions?

regards
 Steve

--
Tools, training and technology to help you meet your information needs




From tim.one at home.com  Fri Jan  5 02:24:40 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 02:24:40 -0500
Subject: embedded python - cancel "while 1: pass"
In-Reply-To: <Eo156.83$Oe.897@tor-nn1.netcom.ca>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCOENKIGAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Warren Postma]
> Okay, I have a worse case than WHILE 1: PASS
>
> How about uninterruptible C code called via python, such as this:
>
> print 2L ** 2L ** 256
>
> I've let this run for 15 minutes and it didn't complete. There is no
> apparent way to abort it either, as it spends its time in
> long_mult and the Python scheduler doesn't even run.

See Steven's reply:  Python does check for keyboard interrupt during
long_mult, so you have a platform or embedding problem here.  I had no
trouble interrupting it, for example, under Win98SE from a DOS box Python
session.  This won't work, though, if you're running under IDLE (Tk grabs
the keyboard events first, but Tk doesn't get a chance to run so long as
Python is running, so Python never sees the keyboard interrupt despite that
it's checking for it, because Tk never gets a chance to pass the interrupt
on to Python).

> It must complete eventually.
> Any idea how long long_mult and long_pow will take to
> complete this?

They won't.  But that's because they'll eventually die with a MemoryError:
the number of bits in the true result requires about 78 decimal digits to
express.  If you've got a gigabyte of RAM, the number of bits you have only
takes about 10 decimal digits to express.  So how long it takes to die on
your box depends on how much real and virtual memory you have -- if you're
lucky, it will die about 3 days after your disk starts grinding itself to
dust because of all the VM thrashing <wink>.

> ...
> In that case, I think I'm still stuck with the Three Finger
> Salute method (reboot).

Since that's a Windowsism, I hope you know you can kill Python from the Task
Manager, instead of rebooting.  Windows was carefully designed to let you
recover from anything <wink>.




From vecernik at aon.at  Mon Jan 29 07:42:39 2001
From: vecernik at aon.at (Oliver Vecernik)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 13:42:39 +0100
Subject: Newbie MSAccess & Python
References: <3a75072d$0$1520$6146947b@news.choice.net>
Message-ID: <3A75653F.C729388C@aon.at>

TIMOTHY BROWN wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> I need to automate printing some access and crystal reports, basically
> loading the mdb and/or report, sending a username/password and printing.
> 
> Finding information on OLE objects and how to manipulate them has been
> the problem.  Can anyone recommend a good reference? Maybe there is a
> better tool?  (But Python looks cool.)

O'Reilly's (www.oreilly.com) "Python Programming on Win32" is the book
you are looking for (ISBN 1-56592-621-8).

Have a lot of fun!

Oliver


From cjc26 at nospam.cornell.edu  Wed Jan 24 16:58:49 2001
From: cjc26 at nospam.cornell.edu (Cliff Crawford)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 21:58:49 GMT
Subject: pg module, lo problem
References: <980131091.743086@basic.maxnet.ru> <js_a6.1233$ju6.158595@typhoon.nyroc.rr.com> <980268749.311730@basic.maxnet.ru>
Message-ID: <teIb6.24464$ju6.3011423@typhoon.nyroc.rr.com>

* Alexei Zalivine <zalivin at krona.obninsk.ru> menulis:
| 
| > In PostgreSQL you have to use large objects within a transaction.  So,
| > you should do a pg.query("BEGIN;") before locreate, and a
| > pg.query("COMMIT;") after you close the large object.
| 
| Thank you! It really work. But I don't found about it in documentation.

Yes, that's because it's in the PostgreSQL documentation rather than in
the PyGreSQL docs.  (I know because it took me quite a while to find it
myself. ;)


-- 
Cliff Crawford               http://www.people.cornell.edu/pages/cjc26/
                             print "Just another Python hacker"


From sdm7g at virginia.edu  Mon Jan 29 20:11:24 2001
From: sdm7g at virginia.edu (Steven D. Majewski)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 20:11:24 -0500 (EST)
Subject: No Python content...
Message-ID: <Pine.NXT.4.21.0101292007530.301-100000@localhost.virginia.edu>

If you're running out of space to archive all of the python 
mailing lists, check out:

http://www.eml.org/english/research/optimem/optimem.html

and learn how to get:

10 GIGABYTE STORAGE CAPACITY ON A ROLL OF COMMERCIAL ADHESIVE TAPE 

without even unwinding it from the roll! 

-- Steve M. 




From SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk  Wed Jan 24 03:59:55 2001
From: SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk (Simon Brunning)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 08:59:55 -0000
Subject: (no subject)
Message-ID: <31575A892FF6D1118F5800600846864D5B1758@intrepid>

> From:	binto dodo [SMTP:bintowidodo at triplegate.com]
> i'm abeginner in phyton....
> so tell me what is exactly phyton for....what is its ability???
 
It does just about whatever you ask it to do. See http://www.python.org for
answers to all your questions...

Cheers,
Simon Brunning
TriSystems Ltd.
sbrunning at trisystems.co.uk





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accept liability for statements made which are clearly the senders own.



From phlip_cpp at my-deja.com  Tue Jan  9 17:59:00 2001
From: phlip_cpp at my-deja.com (Phlip)
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 14:59:00 -0800
Subject: Silly question from a newbie
References: <S7M66.23342$0x5.1988326@news3.cableinet.net>
Message-ID: <7KM66.70326$Wq1.27682542@nnrp5-w.sbc.net>

Geoffrey Schneider wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> This probably seems like a pathetic question, but...
> 
> I downloaded the 'Grail' browser made with Python.... but, being someone
> who only just heard of Python 2 days ago, I don't know how to start the
> Grail browser. How do I open it? There isn't a .exe file or something like
> that (which, being a dumb-ass Windows user for six years I'm used to
> having provided).

Insert a sound sample of Tim the Sorceror here: "You seek the ... GRRRAIL??"

Open a console (what some call the "dos box").

CD to the directory containing Grail.py and enter this command:

        c:\blah\blah> grail.py

If your installer didn't suck, it associated the .py file extension with 
Python. If your OS didn't suck, it would read the association when you try 
to "execute" the file name.

If all this fails, just type a little more. Don't worry; you won't get RSI 
just by typing this much:

        c:\blah\blah> python grail.py

You could also use Windows Exporer, find the grail.py file, and 
double-click on it.

> I'm using the Python for Windows thingy, as I don't have UNIX (apart from
> Linux, which I ordered from Amazon.com, but hasn't arrived yet!).

You'v done a courageous thing just coming here, and we are all here to 
support you. Admitting you have a problem is the first, biggest step to 
recovery.

-- 
Phlip
http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?PhlIp


From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Fri Jan 26 18:29:36 2001
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 23:29:36 +0000
Subject: Use Python instead of Perl's GifGraph?
References: <94sneo$507$1@sshuraaa-i-1.production.compuserve.com>
Message-ID: <6UZvCuAghgc6EwWA@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>

In article <94sneo$507$1 at sshuraaa-i-1.production.compuserve.com>,
Scobee, Richard <rscobee at pbsj.com> writes
...
>Any opinions on this would be greatly appreciated.
>
>Richard J. Scobee
>Information Solutions Developer
>PBS&J
>Miami, FL
>rscobee at pbsj.com
PIL does images very well, but it's probably biassed towards
manipulating existing images.
-- 
Robin Becker


From donn at oz.net  Tue Jan  9 11:25:24 2001
From: donn at oz.net (Donn Cave)
Date: 9 Jan 2001 16:25:24 GMT
Subject: dns reverse look up with python ?
References: <93ecvp$v21$02$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <93fe1k$mh4$0@216.39.151.169>

Quoth "Ralf Claus" <ralf.claus at t-online.de>:

| any suggestion about this theme ?
| Is there a way for me (newbie) ?

>>> import socket
>>> socket.gethostbyname('t-online.de')
'194.25.134.132'
>>> socket.gethostbyaddr('194.25.134.132')
('www1.sul.t-online.de', [], ['194.25.134.132'])

That's what I understand "reverse lookup" to mean.  Given
a DNS name, like the host name that appears in your email
address "t-online.de", first I look up the IP address with
gethostbyname().  Then, I look up the DNS address by the
IP address.

Hopefully, after this procedure you have a stable pair of
IP and DNS addresses, so if you repeat this procedure you
will continue to get the same answer.  That's the point.

	Donn Cave, donn at oz.net


From nas at arctrix.com  Fri Jan 26 13:17:16 2001
From: nas at arctrix.com (Neil Schemenauer)
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 10:17:16 -0800
Subject: marshal doesn't work with "file-like" objects
In-Reply-To: <94t1bi$m73$1@nnrp1.deja.com>; from echuck@mindspring.com on Fri, Jan 26, 2001 at 11:30:58PM +0000
References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010126135016.029c4d90@mail.mindspring.com> <mailman.980540325.4462.python-list@python.org> <94t1bi$m73$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <20010126101716.A6360@glacier.fnational.com>

Won't cPickle work?

  Neil



From misfit at chopstick.cc  Wed Jan 31 00:58:36 2001
From: misfit at chopstick.cc (T.C. Thomas)
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 05:58:36 GMT
Subject: DataBase support
References: <3a72fff7@news.bezeqint.net>
Message-ID: <gQNd6.182759$15.39740768@news1.rdc1.az.home.com>

"guy bashan" <bashanguy at hotmail.com> wrote:
>Hello,
>
>I'm new to Python, and just installed the Komodo working with AcivePython
>2.0.  I gave a little overview over the syntax and built-in capabilities and
>was really impressed.  But I couldn't notice any database support. Was I
>missing something ??    Does Python have any class dealing with databases
>and tables ??

I am running kinfxdb against an Informix 7.3 database (data warehouse).  It has worked quite well.  
Kinfxdb appears to be just a C library (Informix ESQL/C) of database functions with a Python wrapper module.

--TC



From max at alcyone.com  Tue Jan  2 04:05:19 2001
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2001 01:05:19 -0800
Subject: PyOpenGL and NVidia support for Linux with SMP?
Message-ID: <3A5199CF.8F72F3C0@alcyone.com>

I've seen several posts about this recently, but haven't managed to find
any resolution ...

Has anyone gotten PyOpenGL working for an NVidia chipset working under
Linux 2.2.x with SMP?  I've run into the same roadblocks that others
have bumped into, and with Deja I see people asking about them, and
being told partial solutions which lead to other problems, which I can
also get to ... but I don't see any ultimate resolutions.

Anyone gotten it working?

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, US / 37 20 N 121 53 W / ICQ16063900 / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Love is like war:  easy to begin but very hard to stop.
\__/ H.L. Mencken
    The laws list / http://www.alcyone.com/max/physics/laws/
 Laws, rules, principles, effects, paradoxes, etc. in physics.


From joejava at dragonat.net  Tue Jan  9 18:17:13 2001
From: joejava at dragonat.net (Joel Ricker)
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 18:17:13 -0500
Subject: Problem with __del__
References: <3A5B6434.2BD6FEF6@mail.dvz.fh-koeln.de> <1OJ66.4624$AH6.762498@newsc.telia.net>
Message-ID: <r3N66.1718$_e7.114959@news2.atl>

Fredrik Lundh wrote in message <1OJ66.4624$AH6.762498 at newsc.telia.net>...

>python replaces global objects with None during cleanup, in a well-
>defined but somewhat unpredictable (for a human, at least) order:
>
>    http://www.python.org/doc/essays/cleanup.html
>
>if you can, get rid of the destructors (__del__ methods are evil, and
>shouldn't be used in normal programming).
>
>if you really must keep them around, make sure you keep references
>to global objects:
>
>    def __del__(self, dosomething=dosomething):
>        print self.name, dosomething
>        dosomething()
>
>hope this helps!


I guess I could chime in with my question.  What is the proper
implementation of deleting objects once you are done with them.  Thats
probably the one part of the objects section of the tutorial  that I wasn't
sure about. Wouldn't you want a destructor to do things for cleanup or would
just implement it differently like this:

def deleteme(self)
    dosomething();
    del self

Joel "this OOP isn't so hard after all" Ricker
--
I have been Perl-Free for 4 Days, 20 Hours, 27 Minutes, and 38 Seconds.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Joel Ricker   joejava at dragoncat.net
  Just Another Python Hacker




From claird at starbase.neosoft.com  Sat Jan 20 10:02:36 2001
From: claird at starbase.neosoft.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: 20 Jan 2001 09:02:36 -0600
Subject: Different deployment considerations (was: Python & GUI?)
References: <3A674896.C7E52247@crepido.com> <3A698869.198D6263@crepido.com>
Message-ID: <301DBDE62C14BD35.683C43A181247CB3.8398E5428BE1B406@lp.airnews.net>

In article <3A698869.198D6263 at crepido.com>,
Marco =?iso-8859-1?Q?Seiri=F6?=  <marco at crepido.com> wrote:
>Thank you VERY much for the help. I have now tested
>some of your suggestions and I think I'll use Python
>in my project. Not Perl as I thought of first....
>
>The Python community seems to be just super from what
>I can read here....
			.
			.
			.
The Python community is.

So is Perl's--but in a different way.

Scripting GUIs with Python is a far richer experience
than with Perl, in general; I've studied and done both
in some depth, and write this with confidence.  HOWEVER,
one significant advantage of Perl/Tk (there's a second
one, not apposite for this discussion) is its "deploy-
ability".  There is more than one practical way to
generate a single-file executable from a conventional
Perl/Tk application.  What's the situation on the Python
side?  Gordon's Installer makes Win* Tkinter apps into
single files ...  I know of *no* other of the many Python
GUI bindings which enjoys this benefit.

Does anyone have evidence to the contrary?

Assume the usual disclaimers:  I'm not claiming this
deficiency, if true, is cause for alarm, hairy palms,
starvation in the southern hemisphere, or so on.  I'm
just out to get the facts.
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at NeoSoft.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://starbase.neosoft.com/~claird/home.html


From fredrik at effbot.org  Tue Jan  9 04:55:19 2001
From: fredrik at effbot.org (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2001 09:55:19 GMT
Subject: escape sequences and string comparisons
References: <93cboe$ctj$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <93elo7$aoh$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <beB66.4855$Qb7.682074@newsb.telia.net>

> My copy of K & R C (2nd Ed, Sec A2.5.2) says 'if the character
> following the \ is not one of those specified, the behaviour is
> undefined'
>
> My copy of 'The C Reference Manual' (Harbison and Steele), says
> (paraphrased) '... the behaviour is undefined, though traditionally the
> effect is simply that the backslash is ignored'.

How about reading the *Python* manual instead?

Sigh /F




From sheila at thinkspot.net  Wed Jan 10 00:51:55 2001
From: sheila at thinkspot.net (Sheila King)
Date: 9 Jan 2001 23:51:55 -0600
Subject: Running cgi-scripts on my home Apache server
Message-ID: <9024F182Athinkspot@209.189.89.226>

OK, can anyone help me with this?

I have Apache installed on a Win98 machine.
I would like to run cgi scripts.

I put a script pytestscript.py in my cgi-bin and typed:

http://127.0.0.1/cgi-bin/pytestscript.py

I get a 500 Internal Server error, and the error logs state:
"(2)No such file or directory: couldn't spawn child process: e:/apache/cgi-
bin/pytestscript.py"

I have Python in my DOS path (i.e. in the autoexec.bat file).

Just to test out whether I could get cgi-scripts to run at all, I created a 
file which I named "list.bat" with these contents:

dir


and when I enter
http://127.0.0.1/cgi-bin/list.bat

it gives a directory listing of the cgi-bin directory, so cgi scripts are 
working. I guess I'm just not invoking python properly? How would one do 
this on a Windows/DOS system?

Here is the script in question:
---------------------------------------
#! /usr/bin/python

print "Content-type: text/html\n\n"

print "<html>\n"

print "<Head>"
print "<Title>Obligatory Python Test Script</Title>"
print "</Head>\n"

print "<Body>\n"
print "<H3>Hello</H3>"
print "<b>This is the obligatory<br> Python 'Hello\' test script<br></b>"
print "<i>Ta-da</i>"

print "</body>\n</html>"

---------------------------------------

I've run the script successfully on my website. It's here:
http://www.thinkspot.net/cgi-bin/pytestscript.py

so I know the script works. My host is running Linux/Apache.

--
Sheila King
http://www.thinkspot.net/sheila/
http://www.k12groups.org/



-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----


From akuchlin at mems-exchange.org  Sat Jan 27 13:58:30 2001
From: akuchlin at mems-exchange.org (A.M. Kuchling)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 13:58:30 -0500
Subject: Python 2.1 slower than 2.0
References: <mailman.980616572.26954.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <200101271858.NAA04898@mira.erols.com>

On Sat, 27 Jan 2001 18:28:02 +0100, 
	Andreas Jung <andreas at andreas-jung.com> wrote:
>Is there a reason why 2.1 runs significantly slower ?
>Both Python versions were compiled with -g -O2 only.

[CC'ing to python-dev]  Confirmed:

[amk at mira Python-2.0]$ ./python Lib/test/pystone.py
Pystone(1.1) time for 10000 passes = 3.14
This machine benchmarks at 3184.71 pystones/second
[amk at mira Python-2.0]$ python2.1 Lib/test/pystone.py
Pystone(1.1) time for 10000 passes = 3.81
This machine benchmarks at 2624.67 pystones/second

The ceval.c changes seem a likely candidate to have caused this.
Anyone want to run Marc-Andre's microbenchmarks and see how the
numbers have changed?

--amk




From alet at unice.fr  Tue Jan 23 05:34:37 2001
From: alet at unice.fr (Jerome Alet)
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 11:34:37 +0100
Subject: XML doc generation
References: <mailman.980213426.3545.python-list@python.org> <3A6D50A7.8F4ACFCB@unice.fr>
Message-ID: <3A6D5E3D.D3CED7E0@unice.fr>

Jerome Alet wrote:
> I suggest you to download my XML generation module jaxml from:
> 
> http://cortex.unice.fr/~jerome/jaxml
> 
> the latest version is 1.22

Sorry, I meant 1.23 (I've just found and corrected a minor problem)

-- 
Jerome Alet - alet at unice.fr - http://cortex.unice.fr/~jerome
Fac de Medecine de Nice        http://wwwmed.unice.fr 
Tel: (+33) 4 93 37 76 30     Fax: (+33) 4 93 53 15 15
28 Avenue de Valombrose - 06107 NICE Cedex 2 - FRANCE


From fredrik at effbot.org  Sat Jan 20 15:39:37 2001
From: fredrik at effbot.org (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 20:39:37 GMT
Subject: Tabbing/Spaces
References: <20010120011201.72310F44E@mail.python.org> <mailman.979964962.24958.python-list@python.org> <n3aa6.7716$AH6.1213290@newsc.telia.net> <m37l3q2fnr.fsf@paci.nautilus>
Message-ID: <dIma6.7842$AH6.1243348@newsc.telia.net>

Lele Gaifax wrote:
>     FL> here's a piece of code I use for emacs (taken from a java mode
>     FL> sample by jwz):
>
> Here is a simpler recipe :-)

note that jwz's code also gets rid of unnecessary white-
space at the end of lines.

Cheers /F




From codebert9 at users.sourceforge.net  Tue Jan  2 01:56:24 2001
From: codebert9 at users.sourceforge.net (Jeffrey Drake)
Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2001 06:56:24 GMT
Subject: Python Imaging Library and Windows HELP!
References: <cXe46.16108$n%.820749@news20.bellglobal.com>
Message-ID: <sYe46.16115$n%.820734@news20.bellglobal.com>

One other note, I am a beginner with python, just not beginning with coding.

"Jeffrey Drake" <codebert9 at users.sourceforge.net> wrote in message
news:cXe46.16108$n%.820749 at news20.bellglobal.com...
> I just downloaded and installed the Python  Imaging Libary for windows,
and
> it basically has a set of py files, a dll. There is absolutely no
> documentation of what to do with this stuff.
>
> I added the directory to the pythonpath environment variable, copied the
> .dll to the /windows/system dir and then when running a program that uses
> it -
>
> ----------
> C:\Python20\OpenGL\nehe>python lesson6.py
> Hit ESC key to quit.
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "lesson6.py", line 225, in ?
>     main()
>   File "lesson6.py", line 218, in main
>     InitGL(640, 480)
>   File "lesson6.py", line 77, in InitGL
>     LoadTextures()
>   File "lesson6.py", line 58, in LoadTextures
>     image = image.tostring("raw", "RGBX", 0, -1)
>   File "c:\python20\py152\pil\Image.py", line 325, in tostring
>     self.load()
>   File "c:\python20\py152\pil\ImageFile.py", line 125, in load
>     self.load_prepare()
>   File "c:\python20\py152\pil\ImageFile.py", line 175, in load_prepare
>     self.im = Image.core.new(self.mode, self.size)
>   File "c:\python20\py152\pil\Image.py", line 40, in __getattr__
>     raise ImportError, "The _imaging C module is not installed"
> ImportError: The _imaging C module is not installed
>
> C:\Python20\OpenGL\nehe>
>
> -------
> Nobody in EFnet/irc.openprojects.net:#python seem to be able to help with
> this. Most of them are on linux, though.
>
> If anyone can help me with this I would really appreciate it.
>
> Regards,
> Jeffrey Drake
> feel free to email me
>
>




From echuck at mindspring.com  Fri Jan 26 13:51:33 2001
From: echuck at mindspring.com (Chuck Esterbrook)
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 13:51:33 -0500
Subject: marshal doesn't work with "file-like" objects
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010126135016.029c4d90@mail.mindspring.com>

C:\All\echuck\Projects\Webware>python
ActivePython 2.0, build 202 (ActiveState Tool Corp.)
based on Python 2.0 (#8, Oct 19 2000, 11:30:05) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
 >>> from StringIO import StringIO
 >>> f = StringIO()
 >>> f.write('hi')
 >>> import marshal
 >>> marshal.dump(1, f)
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
TypeError: marshal.dump() 2nd arg must be file


So is that a bug, a flaw or a feature?

-Chuck
--
http://webware.sourceforge.net




From pj at sgi.com  Mon Jan 15 15:14:18 2001
From: pj at sgi.com (Paul Jackson)
Date: 15 Jan 2001 20:14:18 GMT
Subject: Speed of Python vs. Perl
References: <mailman.979287020.15447.python-list@python.org> <93oled$o48b3$1@fido.engr.sgi.com> <8p6zogubven.fsf@Eng.Sun.COM>
Message-ID: <93vlmq$p91ge$1@fido.engr.sgi.com>

Mike, responding to pj:
> > I don't see anyway around this.
> 
> One way is to provide some sort of "dump" facility that allows the
> program to initialize, dump the state, and then make an executable
> from the dumped state.  Emacs does (or at least, did) this ...

Yes.  I should have said:

   I don't see any clean, portable, low maintenance way around this <.2 grin>
-- 
                          I won't rest till it's the best ...
                          Manager, Linux System Software
                          Paul Jackson <pj at sgi.com> 1.650.933.1373


From gustafl at algonet.se  Sun Jan 21 18:56:11 2001
From: gustafl at algonet.se (Gustaf Liljegren)
Date: 21 Jan 2001 23:56:11 GMT
Subject: Modifying .htpasswd from Python?
Message-ID: <90312091gustaflalgonetse@194.213.69.148>

This can be done easily in Perl, using the crypt() function. Now I need a 
Python function doing exactly the same encryption as the htpasswd command. 
Have tried to interact directly with the command, using the commands 
module, but since adding a user is a three step process, it didn't worked. 

Regards,

Gustaf Liljegren


From bowman at montana.com  Fri Jan 19 09:44:45 2001
From: bowman at montana.com (bowman)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 07:44:45 -0700
Subject: PSU uses emacs?
References: <948e4b$hm0$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <UqY96.6013$d25.35307@newsfeed.slurp.net>

Chris Ryland <cpr at emsoftware.com> wrote in message
news:948e4b$hm0$1 at nnrp1.deja.com...
> Why do I have the sinking feeling that, with all the talk about IDEs
> for Python, that the cognoscenti all use Emacs with python-mode and a
> shell window? ;-)

one size fits all: gVim compiled with Python for Python, Perl, C, C++,
Scheme, CLisp, Guile, Fortran, Embedded SQL........... On Windows, I even
replace the lame Developer Studio editor with gVim.

IDEs have nice features, but most are too closely targeted to a particular
language. Learning a handful of languages is bad enough; a handyful of
idiosyncratic IDEs puts me over the top.




From p at mjs400.co.uk  Wed Jan 17 13:15:52 2001
From: p at mjs400.co.uk (Pete)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 19:15:52 +0100
Subject: Jython on the i400 (was: Python and Industry, IBM I'm afraid)
References: <mailman.979724658.27312.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3A65E158.6A238316@mjs400.co.uk>

Don't forget to call it the i400, or iSeries 400, these things matter.
Especially as this machine seems misunderstood by those outside of the clique.

The 'i' apparently stands for integration, which is on the money, I reckon.
Simon Brunning wrote:
> 
> > From: Simon B. [SMTP:sbrunning at bigfoot.com]
> > Now, a Jython port is a bit more likely - the '400 comes with what I'm
> > told is a very good JVM. I've not had any sucess getting it to work
> > just yet, but I keep trying. If I ever do get it going, c.l.py will be
> > the first to know...
> 
> OK, I have Jython working on my AS/400 now - using beta 2. If anyone wants
> details of how I did this, give me a shout.
> 
> It's not ready for showtime yet, though. For a start, the os module doesn't
> seem to be working, which is no surprise, really. I'll try to look into
> that.
> 
> The other thing is that I'm having problems passing byte arguments:
> 
> >>>myInStream.read(27)
> Traceback (innermost last):
>   File "<console>", line 1, in ?
> TypeError: read(): 1st arg can't be coerced to byte[]
> 
> Any tips on this one, anyone?
> 
> Cheers,
> Simon Brunning
> TriSystems Ltd.
> sbrunning at trisystems.co.uk
> 
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> The information in this email is confidential and may be legally privileged.
> It is intended solely for the addressee. Access to this email by anyone else
> is unauthorised. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure,
> copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in
> reliance on it, is prohibited and may be unlawful. TriSystems Ltd. cannot
> accept liability for statements made which are clearly the senders own.


From fredrik at effbot.org  Thu Jan 11 11:11:40 2001
From: fredrik at effbot.org (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 16:11:40 GMT
Subject: init-once class 'static' data
References: <3A5DD9AF.AB1C3DA6@ll.mit.edu>
Message-ID: <0Xk76.5499$Qb7.763228@newsb.telia.net>

George Young wrote:
> I seem to often need a class to initialize a piece of it's data
> the first time that class is instantiated.  Examples might be a database
> connection, a loading a pixmap, loading and parsing a datafile which
> data will normally be accessed as a directory member of the class...
>
> I'd rather the data not initialize on module load, because in some cases
> the data may never be used.
>
> I've been using an idiom I copied once from someone, but it seems
> pretty kludgy, I'm hoping someone will point out a better way:
>
> class foo:
>    data = None
>    def __init__(self, data=data):
>        if data:
>            self.data = data
>        else:
>            self.data = (some expensive operation)

Does that really work?

Here's a more pydiomatic (imho, at least) solution:

class Foo:

    # class attribute, shared by all instances
    data = None

    def __init__(self):

        if not self.data:
            # set the *class* attribute
            Foo.data = (some expensive operation)

        # now you can use self.data as usual

Hope this helps!

Cheers /F




From dan.rolander at marriott.com  Fri Jan 19 04:17:02 2001
From: dan.rolander at marriott.com (Dan Rolander)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 04:17:02 -0500
Subject: Can Python clear a DOS screen?
References: <mailman.979855434.16210.python-list@python.org> <41K96.7179$Qb7.1063615@newsb.telia.net>
Message-ID: <007f01c081f8$95dd8890$11260340@yin>

Thank you both Fredrik and Sam,

I don't know why I didn't see that. I should have been able to figure it
out.

Thanks for taking the time to help me.

Dan

----- Original Message -----
From: "Fredrik Lundh" <fredrik at effbot.org>
Newsgroups: comp.lang.python
To: <python-list at python.org>
Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2001 5:22 PM
Subject: Re: Can Python clear a DOS screen?


> Dan Rolander wrote:
> > I've got a Python script that writes to a DOS console. Is it possible to
> > have the script clear the screen?
>
>     os.system("cls")
>
> (it's as stupid as it looks, but it works everywhere.
> print "\x1a[2J" can also work, but it usually doesn't)
>
> For better control, consider using a console driver.
> here's one:
>
>     http://effbot.org/efflib/console
>
> Cheers /F
>
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>




From scarblac at pino.selwerd.nl  Thu Jan 18 12:43:10 2001
From: scarblac at pino.selwerd.nl (Remco Gerlich)
Date: 18 Jan 2001 17:43:10 GMT
Subject: Using Python instead of...
References: <9423s9$32f$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <slrn96eafh.k6g.scarblac@pino.selwerd.nl>

John Urberg <jurberg at my-deja.com> wrote in comp.lang.python:
> We are considering what language to use to rewrite our practice
> management system.  It is currently a PowerBuilder client/server system.
> Currently all that is in the running is VisualBasic and Java.  My boss
> is concerned about using anything that is not "mainstream".

So what's the problem with Python? Bookstore here has half a shelf on Python
now, how mainstream does he want it? Add Delphi as well...

-- 
Remco Gerlich


From davide at mercurio.localdomain  Wed Jan  3 10:39:36 2001
From: davide at mercurio.localdomain (davide at mercurio.localdomain)
Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 16:39:36 +0100
Subject: split hangs
In-Reply-To: <mailman.978392581.24444.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.978392581.24444.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <14Dq0m-0PX-00@mercurio.localdomain>

>Then you had better start reading better stuff <wink>.  I'll repeat the
>original recommendation:  Jeffrey [note: I erroneously said Jonathan before]
>Friedl's excellent book "Mastering Regular Expressions" (O'Reilly).

Sorry, but the dragon book (Aho Sethi, Ullman), Introduction to automata
theory, languages and computation (Hopcroft, Ullman) and thousand of others
books on language theory are surely a better reference <wink>.

>There are two "obvious" ways to implement a regexp engine.  

Indeed, regexp matchig is quite simple.

One extreme
>Friedl calls "the NFA" way (although he's using "NFA" in a sense that
>differs from its technical meaning in the literature).  

Yes, reading your post I understand that the reason is these are not NFA,
"backreferences" are not part of regualar expressions and so we are not
talking of regular languages.

>
>Note that the literature talks about "real" regular expressions.
>Backreferences change the game profoundly.  This page links to a proof that
>the matching problem for Perl regexps (and so also Python's) is NP-complete:
>
>    http://perl.plover.com/NPC/

Thanks for the reference.

--
						Davide



From mnajmeddine at geo.census.gov  Tue Jan 30 15:31:42 2001
From: mnajmeddine at geo.census.gov (Mohamed Najmeddine)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 15:31:42 -0500
Subject: cgi
In-Reply-To: <LNBBJMBHBAJKJGAJCGABOEMPCHAA.mnajmeddine@geo.census.gov>
Message-ID: <LNBBJMBHBAJKJGAJCGABGEPGCHAA.mnajmeddine@geo.census.gov>

Hello,
My cgi script is working now. I had to add the following line at the
beginning of the file:
#!c:\python20\python.exe
I'm not sure why given the fact that the registry setup should have executed
the cgi script.
Anyhow, that seems to do it.
Med.

-----Original Message-----
From: python-list-admin at python.org
[mailto:python-list-admin at python.org]On Behalf Of Mohamed Najmeddine
Sent: Monday, January 29, 2001 11:02 AM
To: python-list
Subject: RE: cgi




-----Original Message-----
From: Mohamed Najmeddine [mailto:mnajmeddine at geo.census.gov]
Sent: Monday, January 29, 2001 10:59 AM
To: Chris Gonnerman
Subject: RE: cgi


Hello,
I have run the script from the command line and it works.
I have add the -u option to the registry and restarted the PC but I still
get the same error message. I should mention that I'm running on windows
2000 PRO.
I configured the Personal WebServer (PWS) according to the instructions
given at http://starship.python.net/crew/aaron_watters/pws.html
The /cgi-bin in inetpub/wwwroot/ dir is setup as "execute".

Attached are the scripts and the ouput.
Thanks,
MED.

-----Original Message-----
From: python-list-admin at python.org
[mailto:python-list-admin at python.org]On Behalf Of Chris Gonnerman
Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2001 10:11 AM
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: Re: cgi


----- Original Message -----
From: "Mohamed Najmeddine" <mnajmeddine at geo.census.gov>
> I have configured the IIS to run a simple cgi script named hello.cgi and
put
> the script on the dir c:/inetpub/wwwroot/cgi-bin/. The script is as
follows:
>
> print "Content-Type: text/html\n\n"
> print "Hello Python"
>
> and I got the following error message:
>
> CGI Error
> The specified CGI application misbehaved by not returning a complete set
of
> HTTP headers. The headers it did return are:
>
> syntax error at c:\inetpub\wwwroot\cgi-bin\hello.cgi line 4, near "print"
> Execution of c:\inetpub\wwwroot\cgi-bin\hello.cgi aborted due to
compilation
> errors.

Try to run the script directly from Python like so:

    python hello.cgi

You have a syntax error in the script.  I can't see an error in the sample
you posted, but there must be one there.

Also, regarding the registry setup for Python, using the -u (unbuffered)
option is sometimes necessary:

    "C:\python\python.exe -u %s %s"



--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list




From rjones at inficad.com  Sat Jan 27 15:06:21 2001
From: rjones at inficad.com (Robert Jones)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 20:06:21 GMT
Subject: tk3000 on linux
References: <stqj39.kf4.ln@adsl.bapnt> <87d7dumrqp.fsf@lisboa.ifm.uni-kiel.de>
Message-ID: <3a7329da.3935289@news.inficad.com>

On 11 Jan 2001 09:13:02 +0100, Janko Hauser <jhauser at ifm.uni-kiel.de>
wrote:

>You can generate a Setup file in the tkinter3000 directory like:
(snip)

Check first with your distro web site to see if there is an updated
RPM or Deb (whichever may be appropriate). That way you won't mess up
your precious dependancy lists. (slack users ignore this post)


From bowman at montana.com  Sat Jan 20 01:12:51 2001
From: bowman at montana.com (bowman)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 23:12:51 -0700
Subject: data structure/algorithm in python
References: <mailman.979960222.21821.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <G0aa6.6519$d25.41537@newsfeed.slurp.net>

Mohd Zamri Murah <zamri at sun1.ftsm.ukm.my> wrote in message
news:mailman.979960222.21821.python-list at python.org...
>
> python) Or, the python <-> C++/Java have too much differences that reading
> about data structure/algorithm in C++/Java will only confuse learning the
> same thing in python?

I wouldn't recommend you buy it sight unseen, but _Mastering Algorithms with
Perl_ might be helpful if you can browse it in a bookstore. On the downside,
it does use perlisms and reference some modules that don't have a direct
equivalency, but seldom uses the furrier constructs.

Sara Baase's _Computer Algorithms_  uses a pascal/modula2 pseudocode that
really doesn't look all that different from Python. Sedgewick's C version
might be a little clearer than the C++ one. Really, the concepts are what
you are looking for; figuring out the implementation details for a
particular language will strengthen your grasp on that language.





From paulp at ActiveState.com  Thu Jan 18 23:44:18 2001
From: paulp at ActiveState.com (Paul Prescod)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 20:44:18 -0800
Subject: Why is "as" not a keyword?
References: <3A679717.1328@loop.com>
Message-ID: <3A67C622.129EF7E3@ActiveState.com>

Jesse W wrote:
> 
> Most people know about the functionality of the import statement that
> lets you import something under a differnt name.  It uses the word "as"
> to tell the interpreter.  Why is "as" not a keyword?  Other flag parts
> of commands are keywords, like "in", or "from". Why not "as"?

As is not a keyword because the fewer keywords there are in the
language, the more flexibility you have as a programmer. You could for
instance name a variable "as" to stand for ActiveState.

> Currently, it seems to me to be confusing when you type
>         import foo as bar
>  in IDLE, and import lights up as a keyword, but "as", which has to be
> there and is clearly part of the syntax, does not.  

That is merely a bug in IDLE. I wouldn't be surprised if it was fixed in
the CVS version of IDLE.

 Paul Prescod



From deblNONospammy at theworld.com  Tue Jan  9 21:34:03 2001
From: deblNONospammy at theworld.com (David Lees)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 02:34:03 GMT
Subject: Python code for daVinci
Message-ID: <3A5BCA21.AB10FB0A@theworld.com>

I want to thank Tom Bryan for sending me Python code for generating
daVinci graphs.  The code was written by Doug Hellmann, but his e-mail
address at mindspring bounces.  If you are out there Doug, thanks and
you can reach me at:  davidl at raqia.com

david lees


From phrxy at csv.warwick.ac.uk  Mon Jan 29 18:34:05 2001
From: phrxy at csv.warwick.ac.uk (John J. Lee)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 23:34:05 +0000
Subject: win32 DLL import problem
In-Reply-To: <KsfjsLA8YYd6Ew7q@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
References: <Pine.SOL.4.30.0101291323540.148-100000@mimosa.csv.warwick.ac.uk> <KsfjsLA8YYd6Ew7q@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.30.0101292327240.8722-100000@mimosa.csv.warwick.ac.uk>

On Mon, 29 Jan 2001, Robin Becker wrote:

> In article <Pine.SOL.4.30.0101291323540.148-100000 at mimosa.csv.warwick.ac
> .uk>, John J. Lee <phrxy at csv.warwick.ac.uk> writes
> >
> >ImportError: DLL load failed: One of the library files needed to run this
> >> application cannot be found.
[...]
> try and get hold of depends.exe the dependency checker and use it to see
> what DLL's your exetnsion is linked against/expecting. It comes as part
> of the VC++ tools, but it can be downloaded from M$oft somewhere.
[...]

Aha, thanks.  It seems I did after all somehow link with cygwin1.dll.

Having got past that one, a slightly tougher one: my copy of TableIO
(compiled and run on the same two machines mentioned above), works on our
NT machine, but hangs the Python interpreter shell on our win95 laptop.
Now, I know that since (apparently) I linked against crtdll.dll rather
than msvcrt.dll by omitting -mno-cygwin somewhere, bad things may happen
as a result.  But do these bad things really happen on win95 but not NT??


John



From fredrik at effbot.org  Wed Jan 24 02:27:23 2001
From: fredrik at effbot.org (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 07:27:23 GMT
Subject: PIL Example
References: <94km7t$caq$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <oilb6.8447$AH6.1364119@newsc.telia.net> <94lmm5$98n$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <vtvb6.8993$Qb7.1272936@newsb.telia.net>

smibr at my-deja.com wrote:
> Current code looks like this:
...
> draw = ImageDraw.Draw(im)
> draw.line((0,0),im.size, fill=128)
> draw.line((0,im.size[1]),(im.size[0],0), fill=128)
> del draw
...

That's not the same code as you posted before:

> draw.line((0, 0) + im.size, fill=128)
> draw.line((0, im.size[1], im.size[0], 0), fill=128)

Note the difference: in your original post, you passed
the line coordinates in a single argument.

(checking)

Yes, it's a glitch in the documentation on pythonware.com.
I thought we'd patched that, but maybe it never made it to
the side, and got lost in the great site reshuffle.

> I guess upgrading would help. When I run it on the Windows 95 box at
> work it runs just fine. I still wonder about the traceback though.

The ImageDraw line method looks like this:

    def line(self, xy, fill=None):

when you call this with two coordinates, Python assign the
first one to xy and the second to fill.  When Python gets to
the fill=128 argument, it has nowhere to put the value.

Cheers /F




From bowman at montana.com  Sat Jan 20 21:05:51 2001
From: bowman at montana.com (bowman)
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 19:05:51 -0700
Subject: odd NT installation problem
References: <z27a6.6393$d25.38899@newsfeed.slurp.net> <p6qhf2tpz0p.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <Wura6.7040$d25.45887@newsfeed.slurp.net>

Martin von Loewis <loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de> wrote in message
news:p6qhf2tpz0p.fsf at informatik.hu-berlin.de...
> "bowman" <bowman at montana.com> writes:
>
> The Tcl packages are not necessary; BeOpen comes with its own Tcl
> libraries.

True, I was confusing the matter. I got the Tcl package since the
ActiveState distro does not include Tcl/Tk.

> I recommend to uninstall any copies of Python and Tcl that you may
> have on your system. Then, you should remove all registry key in
> Software\Python, and start all over.

I'd searched for and Python references in the Registry and deleted them, as
well as removing
and Python references from the PATH environment variable.

> If it actually says that the installer is corrupted, please don't
> forget to include the exact URL of the file that you've downloaded,
> and the md5sum or atleast the size of the file, so others can get a
> clue whether download failed.

I'll have to get the file data Monday. The url's were either those from
www.python.org or
www.activestate.com  download pages. The download method was a right click
in NetScape, and saving the link to disk. This is my standard procedure and
hasn't been a problem previously for rpms. tgz, zip, and so forth.

> Are you sure you've enabled binary mode inside ftp? (hint: what else
> could I guess out of the blue sky)

ftp wasn't involved. The exported directories on my Linux box show up as H:
on the NT box, much like any other mounted directories.  The binary or .msi
is then moved to D: with the standard cp command. The file sizes after the
copy. I can't definitely say that the problem isn't in this transfer, but it
works for everything else I do, including the ActiveState Perl msi package.
Rather has me baffled, but I'll mess around with it further Monday.

I'd say the 1.52 distro would be good enough, but past experience tells my
I'll invariably use something in the Linux box if only '+=' that won't fly
in 1.52.




From echuck at mindspring.com  Sun Jan 14 16:40:16 2001
From: echuck at mindspring.com (echuck at mindspring.com)
Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 21:40:16 GMT
Subject: Web devel with python. Whats the best route?
References: <mailman.978910629.6814.python-list@python.org> <93cqvi0191h@news1.newsguy.com> <kuofxhi4d2.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi> <93om7l$p6s$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <kusnmmfs6a.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>
Message-ID: <93t6bv$pj$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

In article <kusnmmfs6a.fsf at lasipalatsi.fi>,
  Erno Kuusela <erno-news at erno.iki.fi> wrote:
> In article <93om7l$p6s$1 at nnrp1.deja.com>, echuck at mindspring.com
writes:
> | Also, is (b) really an advantage? How often do you need to take a
URL
> | to another machine?
>
> pretty often. mail it to a friend, etc.

But then wouldn't that friend come in as "erno" instead of themselves?


> || c) making it work with search engines
> | I'm not clear on (c) and search engines. If a session is related to
a
> | specific user, doesn't that imply that:
> |  1. the searchbot gets it's own session id,
> |  2. stores the id in the URL and
> |  3. now when a user finds the URL via the search engine, they click
in
> | and are considered to be "AltaVista"?
>
> presumably the session has expired by then and the user is redirected
> to a url with a fresh session string. one can also encode the client
> address in the url and check it.

This doesn't account for the case where the session hasn't expired yet.
Also, it doesn't seem to account for remembering users. e.g.,
automatically recognizing a previous user when they visit a site after
some days have passed and the session has expired. I suppose userId
could also be encoded in the URL separate from sessionId. But that
still takes you back to the "dirty URL" problem.


> | On the contrary, using cookies gives you clean URLs like:
> |   http://host.com/docs/faq/
> | Which when clicked through a search engine will not come in with a
> | session id that is either expired or inaccurate, like
> | http://host.com/89dfgk49f/docs/faq would.
>
> this is true.
>
> | Item (d) says cookies are ugly. What's ugly about this:?
> |   Set-Cookie: use=webware;
> | Or the clean URLs described above? Session ids are for the eyes of
> | programmers, not users.
>
> cookies are an ugly kludge in http because they are logically
> part of the information needed to locate the object in the http
> request, but they are outside of the path in the request. and they
hurt
> cacheability.

They are only part of the information required to locate the object if
that's how you're using them. If the cookie simply identifies the user
for purposes of security, then this is more of an "aspect" of web
interaction rather than part of the path to the object.

Also, if the web site is really using server side session variables to
determine content, whether the session is in a URL or a cookie, then
cacheability by the client is already out the window.


> they are a pain to manage for users, who have to enable them for your
> site. which is often painful since many browsers don't provide for
> this functionality - users have to rely on a 3rd party proxy or
> somesuch to do the filtering.

I'm not clear on this part. Most users have cookies by default because
most browsers support cookies out of the box. I define "most" by the
distribution of hits and/or users, not by enumerating all the browser
products.

I get my browser stats from:

http://www.upsdell.com/BrowserNews/stat.htm


While I'm sure stats vary quite a bit from site to site, it's usually a
matter of Netscape/Mozilla vs. Explorer vs. some small percentage of
browsers (typically < 1%) that are trying to be compatible with these
two browser camps anyway.



> of course this is small potatoes in the nauseating sea of terrifying
> kludges that is the current world wide web, so most people don't care
> very much.

Well we can definitely agree on that!  :-)


> | In summary, I think cookies are both clean and convenient, if you're
> | confident your user base has them.
>
> i think we'll have to agree to disagree.

OK, but I'd be interested in your response to my notes concerning
the "pain to users" or lack thereof. I see your other points even if I
don't agree with them, but don't know where you're coming from on this
topic.


-Chuck


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From h.moeller at insiders.de  Fri Jan 19 11:16:21 2001
From: h.moeller at insiders.de (Holger Moeller)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 17:16:21 +0100
Subject: [Jython 2.0] Reading modules from a jar
Message-ID: <949p92$mte$1@Iapetos.teknon.de>

Hi all,
is it possible to read modules which are usually in the <python.home>\Lib
directory from a JAR file.  It is necessary to provide a
fully-functional-one-JAR-distribution.

Any help is appreciated, thank you.






From smnordby at yahoo.com  Fri Jan 12 19:38:52 2001
From: smnordby at yahoo.com (Steve)
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 16:38:52 -0800
Subject: newbie...
References: <QZM76.20111$n5.335569@news6.giganews.com>
Message-ID: <3A5FA39C.D7F23ECD@yahoo.com>

Matt Frey wrote:
> 
> Where is a good place to learn python?

In front of a computer.

Try the Python tutorial that comes with the distribution, or Alan
Gauld's online http://www.crosswinds.net/~agauld/ tutorial or How to
Think Like a Computer Scientist
http://www.ibiblio.org/obp/thinkCSpy/index.htm


From scarblac at pino.selwerd.nl  Tue Jan 30 20:03:15 2001
From: scarblac at pino.selwerd.nl (Remco Gerlich)
Date: 31 Jan 2001 01:03:15 GMT
Subject: curly-brace-aphobic?
References: <3A74EBD6.3C87FD15@seebelow.org> <slrn97a9fu.7sf.clgonsal@keeshah.penguinpowered.com> <3A757FBE.E54C5ECD@seebelow.org> <mailman.980789494.4239.python-list@python.org> <slrn97c6bs.bjo.scarblac@pino.selwerd.nl> <mailman.980870616.378.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrn97eolf.gjm.scarblac@pino.selwerd.nl>

D-Man <dsh8290 at rit.edu> wrote in comp.lang.python:
> On Tue, Jan 30, 2001 at 01:38:37AM +0000, Remco Gerlich wrote:
> | An essential difference is the fact that lists are ordered, but dicts aren't.
> 
> In my Discrete Mathematics II class we discussed Partial Ordering
> quite a bit.  If you take this perspective, then lists aren't really
> orderd any more than a dict is.
> 
> A Partial Ordering is formed by creating a mapping between the
> objects you have and a set of objects that already have a known
> partial ordering (often the set of integers).  In this view, a list is
> simply a mapping from the integers to arbitrary objects and vice
> versa.   So sorting a list is really nothing more than altering you
> concept of that mapping.

This is like saying that a program isn't really a block of ascii text; it is
a function on some subset of the positive numbers to the set [0,127].
Making changes to a program is simple altering that mapping.

It may be true, but I don't see the point of looking at it like that...

unless-you're-thinking-about-code-obfuscation-by-fourier-transform-ly-y'rs,

-- 
Remco Gerlich


From hancock at earthlink.net  Wed Jan 24 13:20:30 2001
From: hancock at earthlink.net (Terry Hancock)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 10:20:30 -0800
Subject: Python as a beverage
References: <20010124144903.0CB3CEA59@mail.python.org>
Message-ID: <3A6F1CEE.B07598E9@earthlink.net>

python-list-request at python.org wrote:
> With that in mind, I would put it this way:
> 
>     Python = Jolt Cola (All the Sugar, and Twice the Caffeine. Watch out for
> the side effects.)
> 
>     Ruby = Pepsi Cola (Much Better than New Coke, but not a replacement for
> Old Coke or Jolt, for me)
> 
>     Perl = Liquid Invert Sugar and Caffeine in an intravenous drip bag
> (Let's not beat around the bush anymore, let's just go and do some damage.)
> 
>     C = Classic Coke (Still can't live without it.  Python, for instance, is
> written in C.)
> 
>     C++ and Java = New Coke (Can definitely live without it, but other
> people swear by it)
> 
>     Smalltalk =  Tonic Water with a slice of Lemon (I'm not quite ascetic
> enough to appreciate it, but I appreciate people who appreciate it.)
> 
>     Lisp or Functional Languages = Hot Water  (Some people can drink hot
> water with nothing in it. I don't understand it. Neither do I understand
> Lisp or Functional programmers.)
> 
> Analogys-R-Us-ly-y'rs-
>     Warren

:D :) :D :) :D :) :D
I just about fell out of my chair -- thanks for cheering up my morning.
:)
This may wind up on my wall.

-- 
Terry Hancock
hancock at earthlink.net




From amk at mira.erols.com  Sun Jan 28 13:36:11 2001
From: amk at mira.erols.com (A.M. Kuchling)
Date: 28 Jan 2001 18:36:11 GMT
Subject: Interested in a Crypto-SIG?
References: <3A72C8A3.C4B4D69A@stroeder.com> <slrn97650f.i1.amk@mira.erols.com> <3A731F26.15461A27@stroeder.com> <slrn978o29.gn.amk@mira.erols.com> <3A7461AC.AC5768@stroeder.com>
Message-ID: <slrn978qf4.kk.amk@mira.erols.com>

On Sun, 28 Jan 2001 19:15:08 +0100, 
	Michael Stroeder <michael at stroeder.com> wrote:
>Yes, I know how much work a reasonable crypto API for Python is.
>
>But there are people currently working on this stuff (e.g. M2Crypto,
>some commercial projects). This is my try to coordinate the work
>which is already done to save our time!

Yes, but my point is that the mere creation of a SIG won't do that.
Writing a draft of a proposed crypto API, or the requirements for such
an interface, is more likely to start something moving.  

--amk


From junaftnoon at nospamplzyahoo.com  Sat Jan  6 02:22:34 2001
From: junaftnoon at nospamplzyahoo.com (June Kim)
Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2001 16:22:34 +0900
Subject: Memory Leakage with Tuples and Lists
Message-ID: <936h6e$d11$1@news.nuri.net>

Tested under Python 1.5 and 2.0 on Win32:

1.
Python 2.0 (#8, Oct 16 2000, 17:27:58) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)
Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more informat
>>> for j in range(10):
...     temp=range(800000)
...     del temp

2.
Python 2.0 (#8, Oct 16 2000, 17:27:58) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)
Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more informat
>>> for j in range(10):
...     temp='a'*8000000
...     del temp

In the case of #2, there is no memory leakage at all. All the memory is
returned 100%. However, in #1, there is a severe memory leakage, a few mega
bytes. Do you guys experience this on *nices as well?




From w.janssen at ieee.org  Fri Jan 12 00:06:25 2001
From: w.janssen at ieee.org (Bill Janssen)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 21:06:25 PST
Subject: Adding compressed Palm pixmap format to PIL; am I on the right track?
Message-ID: <01Jan11.210626pst."3448"@watson.parc.xerox.com>

I'd like to add PIL support for the Palm pixmap format (sometimes
called Tbmp).

Looking over the PIL docs, I get the impression that support for
uncompressed formats can be added at the Python level, and support for
compressed formats, like the Palm format, needs to be added at the C
level (new files in libImaging, say PalmDecode.c and PalmEncode.c).

Is this the right path?

Bill




From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sun Jan  7 03:41:01 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2001 09:41:01 +0100
Subject: Should I learn Python or Java?
References: <HEO56.5504$y9.2881293@typhoon.we.rr.com> <938o49$fj6$1@newshost.accu.uu.nl>
Message-ID: <939aap0nvb@news1.newsguy.com>

"Martijn Faassen" <m.faassen at vet.uu.nl> wrote in message
news:938o49$fj6$1 at newshost.accu.uu.nl...
    [snip]
> > 2.  Is going from object-based to object-oriented programming that huge
a
> > jump?   I want to learn an OO language, however I plan on utilizing it
in my
> > career.
>
> OO concepts such a polymorphism are pretty important, and I'm not entirely
> sure if VB supports it (though I heard it is fully OO now, so it should
now,
> and there's COM of course). Anyway, OO concepts in the context of Python

The "fully OO" (==supports single inheritance of implementation) version of
VB is the .NET one, which (although it supports COM via 'bridges' that come
with the .NET framework) is not COM-oriented.  Anyway, current VB does
polymorphism via interfaces (which are really COM interfaces) and the verb
'implements' (same as Java, though Java, like VB.NET, also gives you single
inheritance of implementation; but that's just a convenience when you are
implementing an object, not the languages' main road to polymorphism).


Alex





From moshez at zadka.site.co.il  Mon Jan  1 13:26:43 2001
From: moshez at zadka.site.co.il (Moshe Zadka)
Date: Mon,  1 Jan 2001 20:26:43 +0200 (IST)
Subject: array of objects
In-Reply-To: <FRI36.76$KD3.30489@typhoon.aracnet.com>
References: <FRI36.76$KD3.30489@typhoon.aracnet.com>, <92n1s7$tq9$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <siE36.2779$Qb7.318673@newsb.telia.net>
Message-ID: <20010101182643.EB2E9A84F@darjeeling.zadka.site.co.il>

On Sun, 31 Dec 2000, "Daniel Klein" <DanielK at aracnet.com> wrote:

> How then is list comprehension 

Which means, 

obj = [test() for x in range(N)]

> different (and/or better) than say:
> 
> obj = []
> for x in range(N): obj.append(test())

Well, a lot of people here seem to think it's more readable. It may
be more efficient in the future too. For me, the killer advantage is

def tests(N):
	return [test() for x in range(N)]

vs.

def test(N):
	obj = []
	for x in rnage(N):
		obj.append(test())
	return obj

look-ma-no-variables-ly y'rs, Z.
-- 
Moshe Zadka <sig at zadka.site.co.il>
This is a signature anti-virus. 
Please stop the spread of signature viruses!



From dsavitsk at e-coli.net  Fri Jan 26 11:09:02 2001
From: dsavitsk at e-coli.net (savitsk)
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 10:09:02 -0600
Subject: xor operator?
References: <20010126125141.18593.qmail@nw128.netaddress.usa.net> <mailman.980517875.10931.python-list@python.org> <3A7188A9.1482CA3D@divalsim.it> <3A71951D.20A2@hvision.nl>
Message-ID: <Fihc6.6515$Ch.1522702@newsrump.sjc.telocity.net>

"Hans Nowak" <ivnowa at hvision.nl> wrote in message
news:3A71951D.20A2 at hvision.nl...
> Nicola Musatti wrote:
>
> > > Very few languages have a boolean xor operation. I don't know any off
the
> > > top of my head, but if I'd have to make a guess, I'd say that INTERCAL
was
> > > the only language I'm famialiar with, with a boolean XOR operation :)
>
for better or worse, visual basic 6 has an Xor operator (according to VB &
VBA in a nutshell, pg. 611)

ds




From fredrik at effbot.org  Tue Jan  9 02:39:46 2001
From: fredrik at effbot.org (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2001 07:39:46 GMT
Subject: why no "do : until"?
References: <932r3e010bd@news1.newsguy.com><mailman.978660367.22251.python-list@python.org><fvy9wlztq2.fsf@Borokay.AI.SRI.COM><mailman.978997336.1886.python-list@python.org> <fvwvc5zd8w.fsf@Borokay.AI.SRI.COM>
Message-ID: <6fz66.4202$AH6.740364@newsc.telia.net>

David Morley wrote:
> This also uses the loop counter rather than constructing an intermediate
> list of indices.  There is the inefficiency of packing and unpacking the
> (i,x) tuples, but I would hope that would be insignificant in Python.

on my machine, your solution is about 5 times slower than

    for i in range(len(a)):
        x = a[i]
        ...

or

    i = 0
    for x in a:
        ...
        i += 1

where a is a built-in sequence type (list, tuple, etc), and its
length is in the 10 to 1,000,000 item range.

(like Aahz, I prefer the second variant.  it's slightly faster on
large sequences, and doesn't depend on len(a) returning the
right thing)

for-indexing should be slightly faster than the second alternative
(less bytecode involved)

Cheers /F




From wware at world.std.com  Fri Jan  5 07:59:36 2001
From: wware at world.std.com (Will Ware)
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 12:59:36 GMT
Subject: MIDI file parser, MIDI classes
Message-ID: <G6oxFC.I5E@world.std.com>

http://www.deja.com/getdoc.xp?AN=711531226&fmt=text

This is a collection of Python classes representing the information
in a MIDI file. To parse a MIDI file, type:

python midi.py < yourfile.mid       or
python midi.py -i yourfile.mid

-- 
import string,time,os;print string.join((lambda x:x[:10]+x[8:])(map(
lambda x:string.center("*"*(lambda x:((x<24) ### Seasons Greetings, Will Ware
*(x-3))+3)(x),24),range(1,28, 2))),"\n") ################ wware at world.std.com


From skreech at my-deja.com  Fri Jan 12 16:29:54 2001
From: skreech at my-deja.com (skreech at my-deja.com)
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 21:29:54 GMT
Subject: Using Python SSL
Message-ID: <93nt06$4eu$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

I'm fairly experienced with using sockets in
Python... I've written two or three small programs
using sockets, nothing major. Python's
documentation on sockets is very good, and socket
programming in general is well documented too
(Beej's socket programming guide for example).
I've wanted to try implimenting SSL in the socket
programs by trying to use mxCrypto and Python's
SSL in the socket module. Not only have I been
unsuccessful trying to find out how to use
socket.SSL from the sourcecode and httplib.py, but
I've been even less successful in looking for
documentation on the internet on how to use SSL in
Python.

Since there seems to be little demand for
documentation, it seems like theres some real
obvious way to use it. I've successfully generated
a key and a self-signed certificate with openssl's
utilities, but when I try to use the socket.ssl
function I get SSL_connect errors. What is wrong
is probably obvious, but I can barely find any
example code to go off of.

The client program I've thrown together to test
socket stuff is basically this:

conn = socket(AF_INET, SOCK_STREAM)
conn.connect(('localhost', 13456))
sslconn = ssl(conn, "ckey", "ccert")

And the server is basically so:

sock = socket(AF_INET, SOCK_STREAM)
sock.bind(("", 13456))
sock.listen(1)
conn, addr = sock.accept()
sslconn = ssl(conn, "skey", "scert")

The exact error is like:
    sslconn = socket.ssl(conn, "skey", "scert")
socket.sslerror: SSL_connect error

And the same error occurs with both programs.
Python has been compiled with SSL support with
OpenSSL 0.9.6, also.

I donno where to go from here, so any help would
be appreceated.

Gavin Cooper


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From kwoeltje at mail.mcg.edu  Wed Jan 17 10:28:37 2001
From: kwoeltje at mail.mcg.edu (Keith F. Woeltje)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 15:28:37 GMT
Subject: Best way to learn Python ?
References: <aa8a6t895h8l3k2q7nmhd25oh6m7haulj9@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3A65BA80.8489F21A@mail.mcg.edu>

If you are completely new to programming, you might also want to look at
Learn to Program Using Python by Alan Guald if you want a printed book.
There are also a number of good online "beginner" tutorials listed on
the Python site (look at http://www.python.org/doc/Intros.html ) if you
have ready web access.
>K 

J5 wrote:
> 
> No schools teach it, so what books do you recommend ?
> 
> Also, what are some cool programming projects I could do ?
> 
> What do you guys write with python ?
> 
> J5


From grante at visi.com  Wed Jan  3 09:50:45 2001
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 14:50:45 GMT
Subject: why no "do : until"?
References: <92jj3j$ff7$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <92m9pm$d19$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <B3z36.122$9s1.18804@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com> <3A4EC5B1.8912E571@engcorp.com> <x8G36.156$9s1.31209@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com> <3A4F4B4D.ECD6B172@engcorp.com> <rBr46.7783$4c.597712@ruti.visi.com> <slrn9550fe.rvi.kc5tja@garnet.armored.net> <3A52AF31.F7A9C32E@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <9%G46.7999$4c.647681@ruti.visi.com>

In article <3A52AF31.F7A9C32E at engcorp.com>, Peter Hansen wrote:

>Phew!  I pass your self-consistency test! :-) At first I did it
>inconsistently, before I came to appreciate the inherent value
>of consistency throughout.  Only problem I have is when I
>attempt to enclose a block with braces strictly for scoping
>reasons -- I don't know whether to indent the block or leave it
>outdented with the rest of the instructions.  After all, there
>is no enclosing conditional or loop structure:
>
>void f()
>    {
>    int x;
>    some code here;
>
>    // dang: do I indent this or not?
>    {
>    int x;
>
>    code that uses the inner x;
>    }
>
>    return;
>    }

That is indeed a sticky question.  I've found that when I need
to do that it's often as a temporary debugging hack, so I just
do something like:

void f()
  {
  asdf();
  qwer();
  if (1) /* debug */
    {
    int x;
    whatever uses x;
    goes here;
    }
  other stuff;
  }

That way, I can change the "if (1)" to "if (0)" to quickly
remove the debug code.

>Except for the evil, ugly, inconsistent brace style which has
>the opening brace on the end of a line and the closing brace
>outdented after the last nested statement.  People who use that
>technique should be barred from programming, not to mention
>shot.  I'd say "in my opinion" but of course this is a matter
>of *fact* and not open to discussion, so there.  :-)

Damned straight!

Somehow I learned to tolerate open/close brackets that don't
line up when using Scheme, but not C, Pascal, Modula-3, Python,
et al.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  Is it clean in other
                                  at               dimensions?
                               visi.com            


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Mon Jan 22 08:00:59 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 14:00:59 +0100
Subject: how to test for nesting inlist
References: <94bhte$4iv$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <94bvgu0kt4@news2.newsguy.com> <94ea6k$4uc$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <mailman.980119825.5586.python-list@python.org> <94h7pi$b86$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <94hau902rvd@news1.newsguy.com>

<cpsoct at my-deja.com> wrote in message news:94h7pi$b86$1 at nnrp1.deja.com...
> What are list comprehensions? I have looked and looked and looked in
> books and on www.python.org and i see no mention of these. Is this

A list comprehension is a syntax form such as:

    [<expression> for <var> in <sequence>]

It was added in Python 2 (a few months ago; your books may be older
than that) and you'll fit it mentioned at
http://www.python.org/2.0/
(look for the header "List Comprehensions" about 3/4th of the way
down this big page).


Alex






From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Jan 16 01:15:27 2001
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 01:15:27 -0500
Subject: python compiled to native in less than a year?
References: <kcF86.6006$J%.594457@news.flash.net> <Pine.GSO.4.21.0101151106200.7702-100000@z.glue.umd.edu> <8pF86.6015$J%.595435@news.flash.net> <mailman.979595596.4546.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3A63E6FF.22EE019C@engcorp.com>

Neil Schemenauer wrote:
> 
> It used to bother me that Python is so slow.  I don't care much
> anymore.  I don't know if its the fact that I'm getting older and
> more mature or if its that machines are getting so fast now that
> it doesn't really matter.  I guess knowing that I can quite
> easily write a C extension module helps too.

Perhaps a combination?  I came to Python long enough into its 
life that I can't say it ever bothered me it was slow.  I'd already
become 'old enough' to stop worrying, had machines fast enough
that I hardly noticed a change from C, and had become so 
intensely frustrated with maintenance costs of software 
development that Python's vast advantages in that respect 
completely masked any issues of performance.


From fabrice.n at home.com  Mon Jan 29 21:07:45 2001
From: fabrice.n at home.com (shaka)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 02:07:45 GMT
Subject: Does python20. package come all Libraries
Message-ID: <Rlpd6.16903$KP3.5182969@news3.rdc1.on.home.com>


I was just wondering if all the libraries published on the python web site
are contained in downloading package of python20.  If no, how can I get
those libraries??

thanks




From jbranthoover at my-deja.com  Thu Jan 11 13:29:47 2001
From: jbranthoover at my-deja.com (jbranthoover at my-deja.com)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 18:29:47 GMT
Subject: NewBie: How Can I Scan The Keyboard In Python?
Message-ID: <93ku2c$gtr$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

Hello All,
	Is there a way to scan the keyboard to watch for a key
closure?  I have a function that runs in a infinite loop.  I want to
brake out of the loop when the space bar is hit.  Is there a way to do
this in Python?  I?m looking for something like Qbasic?s ?Inkey$?
function.

	Any information will be greatly appreciated.  Thank you for
your time and have a nice day.


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From fredrik at effbot.org  Tue Jan 16 12:38:11 2001
From: fredrik at effbot.org (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 17:38:11 GMT
Subject: URL replacement in text
References: <3A5F2A5A.494023BF@thawte.com> <MrG76.5696$Qb7.794378@newsb.telia.net> <8qH76.14451$Im.109356@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <7G%86.7011$AH6.1061749@newsc.telia.net>

Steve Holden wrote:
> Note that this won't cope with some of the more pathological URLs (such as
> those with CGI arguments [http://system/cgi?arg1=val1] or those which link
> to a named anchor in the target page [http://system/pageref#target-name]).

import re

links = re.compile(r"(?i)(?:http|ftp|gopher):[\w.~/%#?&=-]+")

def fixlink(m):
    href = m.group(0)
    return "<a href='%s'>%s</a>" % (href, href)

sometext = """
here's another link: http://www.pythonware.com?FOO=1&bar=10#BAR
"""

print links.sub(fixlink, sometext)

Cheers /F




From root at rainerdeyke.com  Sat Jan 27 10:53:07 2001
From: root at rainerdeyke.com (Rainer Deyke)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 15:53:07 GMT
Subject: . Python 2.1 function attributes
References: <mailman.980593892.725.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <D9Cc6.123109$ge4.43303409@news2.rdc2.tx.home.com>

"Tim Peters" <tim.one at home.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.980593892.725.python-list at python.org...
> def f():
>     pass
> f.attr = 0

If AttributeDecorator (see a previous post in this thread) was part of the
standard library, the following could be used:

def f():
  pass
f = AttributeDecorator(f, attr=0)

This is more general than function attributes and just as obvious and
powerful.  The real drawback of function-like objects is that they are not
bound as methods:

class A:
  def f(self): pass
  f = AttributeDecorator(f, attr=0)

A().f() # Fails because f is not a true function.


--
Rainer Deyke (root at rainerdeyke.com)
Shareware computer games           -           http://rainerdeyke.com
"In ihren Reihen zu stehen heisst unter Feinden zu kaempfen" - Abigor




From max at alcyone.com  Thu Jan 11 13:38:58 2001
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 10:38:58 -0800
Subject: default arguments newbie question
References: <3A5CD60D.98CFAD33@alcyone.com>, <3a5cccca.77467843@localhost> <93ijpa$asp$1@panix3.panix.com> <mailman.979237275.15163.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3A5DFDC2.7CC882A9@alcyone.com>

Moshe Zadka wrote:

> But not for user-defined objects:
> 
> class FoolErik:
> 
>         def __cmp__(self, other):
>                 return cmp(None, other)

Sure, you can come up with pathological cases.  Are there really serious
cases where something like this would be done?  More importantly -- is
there a case where someone would do such a thing (having a user-defined
object which compared equal to None) that would do the wrong thing in
the code example?  If it compares equal to None, shouldn't surrounding
code act like it _was_ None?  If not, what is the point of having
something which compares equal to None but is not None?  Why would one
make such a distinction?

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, US / 37 20 N 121 53 W / ICQ16063900 / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Divorces are made in Heaven.
\__/ Oscar Wilde
    Crank Dot Net / http://www.crank.net/
 Cranks, crackpots, kooks, & loons on the Net.


From sdm7g at virginia.edu  Fri Jan  5 12:53:14 2001
From: sdm7g at virginia.edu (Steven D. Majewski)
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 12:53:14 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Returning the path of a file
In-Reply-To: <mjob5tgge328h1sj94elg4b8sldrtteeus@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.NXT.4.21.0101051227500.225-100000@localhost.virginia.edu>


On Fri, 5 Jan 2001, Daniel Klein wrote:

> I've search the Beazley book as well as the Python reference materials
> and can't find answers to these two basically simple questions:
> 
> 1) How to return the path of a file previously opened in read-only
> mode?
> 
> 	myfile = open("foo")
> 
> I know I can do something like
> 
> 	os.getcwd()
> 
> and this is where 'myfile' is, but if the file was opened by some
> other method, I would like to be able to interrogate where it was
> opened from.
> 
> 

file.name gives you the name used in opening the file.

If you open it with with no path or a relative path, 
that's what you'll get back:

>>> file = open( 'test.py' )
>>> file.name
'test.py'

If you open it with the full pathname, you'll get that back:

>>> import os
>>> file2 = open( os.path.abspath('test.py' ))
>>> file2.name
'/Users/sdm7g/test.py'


And if you need to do this a lot and  you can't remember to use the
absolute path all the time, you can redefine the open function to
do it for you:

>>> import __builtin__
>>> import os
>>> def open( filename, *args ):
...     return apply( __builtin__.open, ( os.path.abspath(filename),) +  args )


-- Steve Majewski <sdm7g at Virginia.EDU> 





From christian.simmendinger at debis-sfr.de  Thu Jan 18 08:31:34 2001
From: christian.simmendinger at debis-sfr.de (Christian Simmendinger)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 14:31:34 +0100
Subject: FPIG - No shared libs
Message-ID: <3A66F036.94E9E23@debis-sfr.de>

Hi !
We?d like  use Pyhon/FPIG on our Supercomputer.
The system isn?t really super though, regarding the OS  - no shared libs
:-(
Now - how would i extend my python without this funcionality ?
Is there a recommended way of doing this ?
I don?t seem able to find anything with respect to that topic in
the web/FAQ.

Thx !

Christian Simmendinger



From SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk  Thu Jan 25 04:54:33 2001
From: SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk (Simon Brunning)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 09:54:33 -0000
Subject: newbie question: table-like data
Message-ID: <31575A892FF6D1118F5800600846864D5B1767@intrepid>

> From:	gbell at uclink.berkeley.edu [SMTP:gbell at uclink.berkeley.edu]
> Question: is there a customary way to create, manipulate &
> query database tables in Python? Is there a module that does this?
 
Two ways, really. There is an RDBMS built entirely in native Python -
Gadfly. (See <http://www.chordate.com/kwParsing/gadfly.html>.)  It's fast,
but doesn't support advanced features like transactions and nulls. Also. it
doesn't scale well, either for multiple users or large tables.

Alternatively, you could hold your data in one of the many 3rd party RDBMSs
for which Python Modules are available. See
<http://www.python.org/topics/database/> for a list of these.

I myself use mxODBC from <http://www.lemburg.com/files/python/>. It allows
you to access any database for which you have an ODBC driver. For example, I
tend to prototype using M$ Access, and keep production data on an AS/400.
(If you are intending to distribute your program, look out for the license
restrictions on mxODBC.)

Have fun!

Cheers,
Simon Brunning
TriSystems Ltd.
sbrunning at trisystems.co.uk
If knowledge can create problems, it is not through ignorance that we can
solve them. - Isaac Asimov




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The information in this email is confidential and may be legally privileged.
It is intended solely for the addressee. Access to this email by anyone else
is unauthorised. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure,
copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in
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accept liability for statements made which are clearly the senders own.



From max at alcyone.com  Sat Jan 27 14:35:44 2001
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 11:35:44 -0800
Subject: [Off topic] allowed to put Python material on the Web?
References: <3a730931.31998180@news.skynet.be>
Message-ID: <3A732310.6A6E379E@alcyone.com>

Daniel wrote:

> Thus, before starting the time-consuming task to create this new site,
> I'd like to know if putting this collection on the Web is actually
> legal/allowed.

You need to get explicit permission from each person whose material
you're using, and retain the full credit and attributions after they do
so.

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, US / 37 20 N 121 53 W / ICQ16063900 / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ All the people in her neighborhood turn around and get mad and sing
\__/ Public Enemy
    blackgirl international / http://www.blackgirl.org/
 The Internet resource for black women.


From amk at mira.erols.com  Thu Jan 11 21:54:44 2001
From: amk at mira.erols.com (A.M. Kuchling)
Date: 12 Jan 2001 02:54:44 GMT
Subject: is Python fully object oriented ?
References: <20010110184830.13286.00000826@ng-fg1.aol.com> <3A5E5C21.3E036BFE@intelligenesis.net>
Message-ID: <slrn95st9d.gu.amk@207-172-146-204.s204.tnt3.ann.va.dialup.rcn.com>

On Fri, 12 Jan 2001 12:21:37 +1100, 
	Ben Hutchison <benh at intelligenesis.net> wrote:

>1. Most significantly, Python requires the "self" or "this" reference
>to be explicitly declared.  ...  Suggests perhaps
>that OO features were built onto initially procedural language.

Actually this likely comes from the Modula-3 influence on Python's
ancestry, and the "Explicit is better than implicit" principle
underlying much of Python's design.  That it also made the initial
implementation easier may also have been a factor, but I suspect not a
deciding one.

--amk


From SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk  Mon Jan 15 07:05:50 2001
From: SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk (Simon Brunning)
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 12:05:50 -0000
Subject: SQL-Statement with Python
Message-ID: <31575A892FF6D1118F5800600846864D5B16F4@intrepid>

> From:	Juergen Hofer [SMTP:juergen.hofer at students.uni-linz.ac.at]
> Is it possible to connect to a M$-Access Database (*.mdb) with Python
> and make simple SQL-Queries and import the results into a list?
> I'm using Python2.0 under Windows98.
 
Try mxODBC, from <http://www.lemburg.com/files/python/>. Don't forget to
read the licence - there are restrictions.

Cheers,
Simon Brunning
TriSystems Ltd.
sbrunning at trisystems.co.uk





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The information in this email is confidential and may be legally privileged.
It is intended solely for the addressee. Access to this email by anyone else
is unauthorised. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure,
copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in
reliance on it, is prohibited and may be unlawful. TriSystems Ltd. cannot
accept liability for statements made which are clearly the senders own.



From tim.one at home.com  Sat Jan 13 02:26:23 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 02:26:23 -0500
Subject: is Python fully object oriented ?
In-Reply-To: <20010113143044.C3BC6A828@darjeeling.zadka.site.co.il>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCMEGAIIAA.tim.one@home.com>

> Note that Knuth regrets adding "protected" to C++.

Heh -- I wonder whether Knuth ever heard of C++!  Clearly, if he had ever
heard of Python, he'd be a c.l.py replybot.  Therefore he never heard of
Python.  Therefore he never heard of any other language developed over the
last decade either.  QED.

uncle-don-would-be-proud-of-my-rigorous-logic-ly y'rs  - tim




From root at rainerdeyke.com  Sun Jan 14 01:02:21 2001
From: root at rainerdeyke.com (Rainer Deyke)
Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 06:02:21 GMT
Subject: why is a negative shift value illegal?
References: <mailman.979430656.15673.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Nhb86.43336$ge4.16574483@news2.rdc2.tx.home.com>

"Tim Peters" <tim.one at home.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.979430656.15673.python-list at python.org...
> Sorry, couldn't resist that.  Simpler answer is "why would they?".  shifts
> don't work that way in most other languages; seems of marginal utility at
> best; and would slow down all Python shifts because Python is implemented
in
> C and we could no longer use the native C shift (well, we can't anyway,
> because C doesn't define the behavior of signs on right shifts; or shifts
> greater than or equal to the bit size in either direction; and Python does
> define those cases -- but yet another test in the implementation maze sure
> wouldn't speed things up).

I don't buy the speed argument.  The speed penalty for one additional check
is insignificant compared to the overhead that already exists.  Adding the
negative shift values would actually yield a significant speed increase in
some areas.

Consider 16 bit color formats.  Red, green, and blue components are packed
into a single 16 bit value.  For any given 16 bit color format, each
component has a mask, from which can be derived its position and length.
For example:

Pixel format: rrrrrggggggbbbbb

red_mask = 0xf800
red_position = 11
red_length = 5
green_mask = 0x07e0
green_postion = 5
green_length = 6
blue_mask = 0x001f
blue_position = 0
blue_length = 5

To operate on an individual component, on needs to isolate it, shift it to
the right by its position, and promote it to an 8 bit value by shifting it
to the left:

red = ((color & red_mask) >> red_position) << (8 - red_length)

The left shift value can be precalculated, of course.  However, if negative
shift values were allowed, the two shifts could be reduced to a single
shift:

red_shift = red_postion + red_length - 8
red = (color & red_mask) >> red_shift

This is a significant speed increase, even if the actual shift takes
slightly longer.  Furthermore, allowing negative shift values would
automatically add support for strange pixel formats that assign more than 8
bits to a component (such as rrrggggggggggbbb).


--
Rainer Deyke (root at rainerdeyke.com)
Shareware computer games           -           http://rainerdeyke.com
"In ihren Reihen zu stehen heisst unter Feinden zu kaempfen" - Abigor




From mhammond at my-deja.com  Tue Jan 16 14:53:43 2001
From: mhammond at my-deja.com (Mark Hammond)
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 19:53:43 GMT
Subject: help finding python20_d.lib for download?
References: <3A649853.5CFBC157@psl.nmsu.edu>
Message-ID: <9428s4$7u7$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

In article <3A649853.5CFBC157 at psl.nmsu.edu>,
  charles cosse <ccosse at psl.nmsu.edu> wrote:
> Hi, i have to use python in windows for 1 small task and
> can't  link my C module because i need python20_d.lib.
> Can anyone help me find the downloadable archive which
> contains it? Thanks a lot!
> Charles

http://www.activestate.com/Products/ActivePython/Download.html contains
a link to a .zip file with all debug binaries supplied with
ActivePython.  They should all work fine for BeOpen Python.

Mark.


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http://www.deja.com/


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Tue Jan 23 06:01:20 2001
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (fredrik at pythonware.com)
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 11:01:20 GMT
Subject: How do I know all thrown exceptions of a function?
References: <g3lb49.73s.ln@127.0.0.1> <94d93h$55d$1@troll.powertech.no> <mailman.980059223.25947.python-list@python.org> <Qeya6.7932$AH6.1260668@newsc.telia.net> <3A6B24F0.EA164698@gte.net> <94icr2$6kv$1@animus.fel.iae.nl> <3A6CDBDA.C3120F98@gte.net> <94ipci$afo$1@animus.fel.iae.nl> <3A6CFD8E.BD473DFD@gte.net> <iEab6.8765$Qb7.1233360@newsb.telia.net> <3A6D54CB.2261D535@gte.net>
Message-ID: <94jo9u$h45$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

"sandj.williams at gte.net" wrote:
> I parse that to mean 'cruft'.

Sorry, I cannot find 'cruft' in my dictionary.  Did you mean
that Python's import statement doesn't work as described, that
Tkinter hasn't been designed to support from-import, or what?

</F>


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From sholden at holdenweb.com  Wed Jan 10 08:16:22 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 08:16:22 -0500
Subject: mxTools (was Re: why no "do : until"?)
References: <L3JTK6ALVzW6Ewyk@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <Pine.LNX.4.30.0101091923390.5204-100000@fep132.fep.ru> <mailman.979060455.13233.python-list@python.org> <3A5B5B55.198BC2C5@gte.net>
Message-ID: <ciZ66.4773$24.95744@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com>

Steve Williams <sandj.williams at gte.net> wrote in message
news:3A5B5B55.198BC2C5 at gte.net...
> Robin Becker wrote:
>
> > In message <Pine.LNX.4.30.0101091923390.5204-100000 at fep132.fep.ru>, Oleg
> > Broytmann <phd at phd.pp.ru> writes
> > >On Tue, 9 Jan 2001, Robin Becker wrote:
> > >> >   Anyone here has any doubts that at least mxDateTime simply MUST
be in
> > >> >the Python core? :)
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >> I'm a minimalist; let 100 flowers bloom, but the core should really
only
> > >> include the minimal required. Fancy dates are a bit too far for me. I
> > >
> > >   mxDateTime is not for fancy dates. Many SQL modules use it for
returning
> > >DATE/TIME fields from SQL. Think also about including it into Zope
> > >(replacing current simple DateTime)...
> > >
> > >Oleg.
> > ...
> > SQL modules are even less essential in the core.
> > --
> > Robin Becker
>
> Some of us think SQL modules are as important as file modules.  Maybe more
> important.
>
But even those of us who think that don't necessarily see that as an
argument for making them core modules!

While I would agree that SQL modules are really almost that important, I
would still question the wisdom of burdening the core development team with
their support.  Each item added into to core increases the number of
potential interactions, and I really don't see it as Guido's job to find out
why my ODBC drivers need tweaking.

Less is more!

regards
 Steve




From larf at 263.net  Mon Jan  8 08:23:55 2001
From: larf at 263.net (Larf)
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 21:23:55 +0800
Subject: How to implement the expect function in embedding python ?
Message-ID: <200101081306.VAA03024@mail.tsinghua.edu.cn>

Hello!
	I have written a telnet client program with C++, and now trying to embed python as the script language. I've written a extend module so now people can access the screen buffer and send characters in python script files. It works very fine. But I hope add some functions just like expect in Tcl. For example, I want people can write scripts like below:
---------------------
import miniterm

b = miniterm.buffer	# screen buffer
send = miniterm.send()
send('a')		# send some chars

if miniterm.expect( condition, timeout ):
   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^???
	for i in range( len(b) ):	
		print b[i]
else:
	miniterm.disconnect()
..
..
---------------------
	When the function 'miniterm.expect' was called, the telnet program should run normally until the certain condition achieved, then the control should return to the script. Now I wonder how can I implement this function?  Should I reimplement a select loop in the function itself? Or use one process run the telnet and another process to monitor it and use pty to communicate like expect? Or maybe threads will be better choices? I have no experiences in embedding scripts  programming , so any advice are very appreciated. Thanks!
	
Best regards
Kafa

	 




From timo at alum.mit.edu  Mon Jan  1 22:30:35 2001
From: timo at alum.mit.edu (Timothy O'Malley)
Date: Mon, 01 Jan 2001 22:30:35 -0500
Subject: tftplib ?
References: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0012310129140.9173-100000@saturn.ispol.com>
Message-ID: <010120012230351740%timo@alum.mit.edu>

[[ This message was both posted and mailed: see
   the "To," "Cc," and "Newsgroups" headers for details. ]]

hola.

Gregory Trubetskoy <grisha at ispol.com> wrote:
> is there by a chance a tftplib.py or something that implements tftp in
> Python out there?

I have this thing lying around.  You will probably want to modify it,
but it's a complete TFTP server implementation.

I have started a tftplib.py, but I never finished it...

-----------------------------

#!/usr/bin/env python

#
# Standard imports
#
import string
import struct, socket, select
import thread

#
# Default variables
#
TFTP_PORT = 69


#
# TFTP Errors
#
class TFTPError(Exception):
    pass


#
# A class for a TFTP Connection
#
class TFTPConnection:

    RRQ  = 1
    WRQ  = 2
    DATA = 3
    ACK  = 4
    ERR  = 5
    HDRSIZE = 4  # number of bytes for OPCODE and BLOCK in header

    def __init__(self, host="", port=0,
                 blocksize=512, timeout=2.0, retry=5 ):
        self.host = host
    self.port = port
    self.blocksize = blocksize
        self.timeout   = timeout
        self.retry     = retry

    self.client_addr = None
    self.sock        = None
    self.active      = 0
    self.blockNumber = 0
    self.lastpkt     = ""

        self.mode        = ""
        self.filename    = ""
    self.file        = None

        self.bind(host, port)
    # end __init__

    def bind(self, host="", port=0):
    sock = socket.socket(socket.AF_INET, socket.SOCK_DGRAM)
        self.sock = sock
        if host or port:
        sock.bind(host, port)
    # end start

    def send(self, pkt=""):
    self.sock.sendto(pkt, self.client_addr)
    self.lastpkt = pkt
    # end send

    def recv(self):
        sock        = self.sock
        F           = sock.fileno()
        client_addr = self.client_addr
        timeout     = self.timeout            
        retry       = self.retry

        while retry:
            r,w,e = select.select( [F], [], [F], timeout)
            if not r:
                # We timed out -- retransmit
                retry = retry - 1
                self.retransmit()
            else:
                # Read data packet
                pktsize = self.blocksize + self.HDRSIZE
                data, addr = sock.recvfrom(pktsize)
                if addr == client_addr:
                    break
        else:
            raise TFTPError(4, "Transfer timed out")
        # end while
        
        return self.parse(data)
    # end recv

    def parse(self, data, unpack=struct.unpack):
        buf = buffer(data)
        pkt = {}
        opcode = pkt["opcode"] = unpack("!h", buf[:2])[0]
        if ( opcode == self.RRQ ) or ( opcode == self.WRQ ):
            filename, mode, junk  = string.split(data[2:], "\000")
            pkt["filename"] = filename
            pkt["mode"]     = mode
        elif opcode == self.DATA:
            block  = pkt["block"] = unpack("!h", buf[2:4])[0]
            data   = pkt["data"]  = buf[4:]
        elif opcode == self.ACK:
            block  = pkt["block"] = unpack("!h", buf[2:4])[0]
        elif opcode == self.ERR:
            errnum = pkt["errnum"] = unpack("!h", buf[2:4])[0]
            errtxt = pkt["errtxt"] = buf[4:-1]
        else:
            raise TFTPError(4, "Unknown packet type")

        return pkt
    # end recv

    def retransmit(self):
        self.sock.sendto(self.lastpkt, self.client_addr)
        return
    # end retransmit

    def connect(self, addr, data):
    self.client_addr = addr
        RRQ  = self.RRQ
        WRQ  = self.WRQ
        DATA = self.DATA
        ACK  = self.ACK
        ERR  = self.ERR

    try:
            pkt    = self.parse(data)
            opcode = pkt["opcode"]
            if opcode not in (RRQ, WRQ):
                raise TFTPError(4, "Bad request")
            
            # Start lock-step transfer
            self.active = 1
            if opcode == RRQ:
                self.handleRRQ(pkt)
            else:
                self.handleWRQ(pkt)

            # Loop until done
            while self.active:
                pkt = self.recv()
                opcode = pkt["opcode"]
                if opcode == DATA:
                    self.recvData(pkt)
                elif opcode == ACK:
                    self.recvAck(pkt)
                elif opcode == ERR:
                    self.recvErr(pkt)
                else:
                    raise TFTPError(5, "Invalid opcode")
    except TFTPError, detail:
        self.sendError( detail[0], detail[1] )

    return
    # end connection


    def recvAck(self, pkt):
        if pkt["block"] == self.blockNumber:
            # We received the correct ACK
            self.handleACK(pkt)
        return
    # end recvAck

    def recvData(self, pkt):
        if pkt["block"] == self.blockNumber:
            # We received the correct DATA packet
            self.active = ( self.blocksize == len(pkt["data"]) )
            self.handleDATA(pkt)
        return
    # end recvError

    def recvErr(self, pkt):
        self.handleERR(pkt)
        self.retransmit()
    # end recvErr
    
    def sendData(self, data, pack=struct.pack):
        blocksize = self.blocksize
        block     = self.blockNumber = self.blockNumber + 1
        lendata   = len(data)
    format = "!hh%ds" % lendata
    pkt = pack(format, self.DATA, block, data)
        self.send(pkt)
    self.active  = (len(data) == blocksize)
    # end sendData

    def sendAck(self, pack=struct.pack):
        block            = self.blockNumber
        self.blockNumber = self.blockNumber + 1
    format = "!hh"
    pkt = pack(format, self.ACK, block)
        self.send(pkt)
    # end sendAck
        
    def sendError(self, errnum, errtext, pack=struct.pack):
        errtext = errtext + "\000"
    format = "!hh%ds" % len(errtext)
    outdata = pack(format, self.ERR, errnum, errtext)
    self.sock.sendto(outdata, self.client_addr)
    return
    # end sendError


    #
    #
    # Override these handle* methods as needed
    #
    #
    def handleRRQ(self, pkt):
        filename  = pkt["filename"]
        mode      = pkt["mode"]
        self.file = self.readRequest(filename, mode)
        self.sendData( self.file.read(self.blocksize) )
        return
    # end readFile

    def handleWRQ(self, pkt):
        filename  = pkt["filename"]
        mode      = pkt["mode"]
        self.file = self.writeRequest(filename, mode)
        self.sendAck()
        return
    # end writeFile

    def handleACK(self, pkt):
        if self.active:
            self.sendData( self.file.read(self.blocksize) )
        return
    # end handle ACK
    
    def handleDATA(self, pkt):
        self.sendAck()
        data = pkt["data"]
        self.file.write( data )
    # end handleDATA
        
    def handleERR(self, pkt):
        print pkt["errtxt"]
        return
    # end handleERR

    #
    # You should definitely override these
    #
    def readRequest(self, filename, mode):
        from StringIO import StringIO
        return StringIO("")
    # end readRequest

    def writeRequest(self, filename, mode):
        from StringIO import StringIO
        return StringIO()
    # end writeRequest

# end class TFTPConnection


#
# Simple TFTP Server
#    Each connection is handled in its own thread.
# 
class TFTPServer:

    """TFTP Server
    Implements a threaded TFTP Server.  Each request is handled
    in its own thread
    """

    def __init__(self, host="", port=TFTP_PORT,
                 conn=TFTPConnection, srcports=[] ):
        self.host = host
    self.port = port
        self.conn = conn
        self.srcports = srcports

    self.sock = None
    self.bind(host, port)
    # end __init__

    def bind(self, host, port):
    sock = socket.socket(socket.AF_INET, socket.SOCK_DGRAM)
        self.sock = sock
    sock.bind(host, port)
    # end start

    def forever(self):
    while 1:
        data, addr = self.sock.recvfrom(516)
        self.handle(addr, data)     
    # end serve_forever

    def handle(self, addr, data):
        if self.srcports:
        nextport = self.srcports.pop(0)
        self.srcports.append( nextport )
        T = self.conn( self.host, nextport )
        else:
            T = self.conn( self.host )
    thread.start_new_thread( T.connect, (addr, data) )
        return
    # end handle

# end class TFTPServer


if __name__ == "__main__":
    import sys
    from StringIO import StringIO

    #
    # Subclass to create our own TFTP Connection object
    #
    class MyTFTP( TFTPConnection ):
        
        def readRequest(self, filename, mode):
            randomstring = "Here is a sample string"
            return StringIO( randomstring )
    
        def writeRequest(self, filename, mode):
            return StringIO()
    # end class

    port = 3000 + TFTP_PORT
    if sys.argv[1:]:
        port = string.atoi(sys.argv[1])

    try:
        serv = TFTPServer( "", port, conn=MyTFTP )
        serv.forever()
    except KeyboardInterrupt, SystemExit:
        pass


From max at alcyone.com  Fri Jan  5 01:01:08 2001
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 22:01:08 -0800
Subject: PyOpenGL and NVidia support for Linux with SMP?
References: <3A5199CF.8F72F3C0@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <3A556324.8CA8C4A8@alcyone.com>

I wrote:

> Has anyone gotten PyOpenGL working for an NVidia chipset working under
> Linux 2.2.x with SMP?  I've run into the same roadblocks that others
> have bumped into, and with Deja I see people asking about them, and
> being told partial solutions which lead to other problems, which I can
> also get to ... but I don't see any ultimate resolutions.
> 
> Anyone gotten it working?

For anyone in the same boat as me, I finally got PyOpenGL working, after
piecing together hints that I found in this newsgroup.  Adding the lines

    #inclue <GL/glx.h>
    #undef GL_EXT_polygon_offset

after the GL includes in each of the .c files (_glumodule.c,
_glutmodule.c, _openglmodule.c, and openglutil.c) and rebuilding solved
the problem.

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, US / 37 20 N 121 53 W / ICQ16063900 / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ We are all part of the human race.
\__/ Richard Ford
    Interstelen / http://www.interstelen.com/
 A multiplayer, strategic, turn-based Web game on an interstellar scale.


From f8dy at my-deja.com  Wed Jan 31 12:59:00 2001
From: f8dy at my-deja.com (Mark Pilgrim)
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 17:59:00 GMT
Subject: Dynamically Defined Functions in Classes?
References: <mailman.980958702.3721.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <959jp0$ngp$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

In article <mailman.980958702.3721.python-list at python.org>,
  purp at wildbrain.com wrote:
> I have an application in which I wish to treat the members of a
> dictionary as attributes; that is, I want to use set-and-get functions
> to access them.

Sounds like you want a UserDict, which is a class that acts like a
dictionary.

from UserDict import UserDict

defaultFoo = {'joe' : 'cool', 'frank' : 'lee', 'ron' : 'dell'}

class Bar(UserDict):
  def __init__(self):
    UserDict.__init__(self, defaultFoo)

>>> b = Bar()
>>> b
{'ron': 'dell', 'joe': 'cool', 'frank': 'lee'}
>>> b["joe"]
'cool'
>>> b["mark"] = "pilgrim"
>>> b
{'mark': 'pilgrim', 'ron': 'dell', 'joe': 'cool', 'frank': 'lee'}

If you need to customize the getting and setting of attributes, you can
use the special methods __getitem__ and __setitem__ in your Bar class.

More on special methods in UserDict and its descendants:
http://diveintopython.org/fileinfo_specialmethods.html
http://python.org/doc/current/ref/sequence-types.html

-M
--
You're smart; why haven't you learned Python yet?
http://diveintopython.org/


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From fredrik at effbot.org  Wed Jan  3 13:40:36 2001
From: fredrik at effbot.org (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 18:40:36 GMT
Subject: embedded python - cancel "while 1: pass"
References: <P9K46.13336$t3.31020@tor-nn1.netcom.ca>
Message-ID: <EmK46.3488$Qb7.431195@newsb.telia.net>

Warren wrote:
> So what do I do?   I've got Python 1.5.2 embedded into a large C
> application, and it runs user-defined scripts.  When a user defined script
> goes south, the only way to fix it is to reboot our embedded system. I'd
> actually like to do something like
>
>  PyThreadState *tstate;
>
>     tstate = PyThreadState_Get();
>     PyThread_Signal( tstate, ABORT);

something like this might work:

static int
getoutofhere(void *unused)
{
    PyErr_SetNone(PyExc_KeyboardInterrupt);
    return -1;
}

Py_AddPendingCall(getoutofhere, NULL);

cheers /F




From flor_pino at hotmail.com  Sun Jan 14 14:49:28 2001
From: flor_pino at hotmail.com (floR)
Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 20:49:28 +0100
Subject: how do i disable buffered output, like Perl's '$|=1'?
References: <979490967.23219.0.pluto.d4ee691b@news.demon.nl> <93so5m$biirv$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de> <979494993.24992.0.pluto.d4ee691b@news.demon.nl> <fQl86.6559$AH6.979259@newsc.telia.net>
Message-ID: <979501202.27393.0.pluto.d4ee691b@news.demon.nl>

sys.stdout.flush() did the trick!
Thanks (and to the others who responded) for the extremely fast reply.


Fredrik Lundh <fredrik at effbot.org> schreef in berichtnieuws
fQl86.6559$AH6.979259 at newsc.telia.net...
> floR wrote:
> > Not exactly what I meant, I think.
>
> It does exactly what you want -- but sure, there are
> other ways to do the same thing:
>
> > Okay, what I want to do in particular, is to send 'print' commands to
the
> > browser in intervals, without buffering, something like the following:
> >
> + import sys
> > print 'Content-type: text/html\n\n'
> > countdown = 10
> > while countdown:
> >     print countdown
> >     countdown = countdown - 1
> +     sys.stdout.flush() # flush output buffers
> >     sleep(1)
> >
> > so that the countdown seems to happen in your browser, instead of
waiting
> > for 10 seconds for the string '10 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1' to appear.
>
> (this assumes that your server sends data to the client
> as soon it arrives from the CGI script, of course).
>
> Cheers /F
>
>




From noahspurrier at my-deja.com  Tue Jan 23 01:33:09 2001
From: noahspurrier at my-deja.com (noahspurrier at my-deja.com)
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 06:33:09 GMT
Subject: Can I decompile PYC files?
Message-ID: <94j8j5$50e$1@nnrp1.deja.com>


A process just deleted my .py file. I still have the .pyc file.
Can I recover anything? I'm desparate. It doesn't have to be perfect.
Thanks,
Noah



Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From zope at thewebsons.com  Sat Jan 27 10:23:29 2001
From: zope at thewebsons.com (Ben Ocean)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 07:23:29 -0800
Subject: Problem Install UPDATE
Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.0.20010127072024.00a5b870@mail.earthlink.net>

Hi;
Okay, I see how you traced back the error. I took off the angle brackets in

# include linux/errno.h

and got this error message:

/usr/include/bits/errno.h:25: `#include' expects "FILENAME" or <FILENAME>

I tried

# include linux/errno.h <FILENAME>

and

# include linux/errno.h FILENAME

but maybe it would like a real filename <g>. Got the same error message. 
Where to now?
TIA,
BenO




From boud at rempt.xs4all.nl  Thu Jan 25 08:06:25 2001
From: boud at rempt.xs4all.nl (Boudewijn Rempt)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 14:06:25 +0100 (CET)
Subject: Unicode string output
In-Reply-To: <3A70007C.89623C9C@lemburg.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0101251214170.27144-100000@calcifer.valdyas.org>

On Thu, 25 Jan 2001, M.-A. Lemburg wrote:

> 
> Why would you want to set the encoding on a per application
> basis, BTW ?
> 

Because some applications work with Unicode, others with latin-1,
and others again with sjis, for instance. I don't want to have
to explicitly select an encoding throughout the whole application,
that just opens up more possibilities for bugs. I might want Zope
to use a default of latin-1 (perhaps - I don't know much about
Zope), but Kura needs utf-8.

Another thing with a system-wide standard is the different
preferences of users. I need Unicode and Latin-1, but my wife,
who uses the same machine needs latin-1 and koi-8.

Boudewijn Rempt  | http://www.valdyas.org




From paulb at infercor.no  Mon Jan  8 06:35:47 2001
From: paulb at infercor.no (Paul Boddie)
Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2001 12:35:47 +0100
Subject: Web devel with python. Whats the best route?
References: <mailman.978910629.6814.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3A59A613.7A39C5C9@infercor.no>

Chris Watson wrote:
> 
>         I'm about to start converting the small fool proof (ha ha) admin
> system I have been working from console based to web based. What is the
> easiest way to go about integrating python into apache so I can start
> web'izing this app? mod_python, mod_snake, PyApache?

Do you really want to go as far as integrating tightly with Apache, or will
CGI-based mechanisms work just as well? Take a look at my Web modules overview
page which attempts to summarise the different Python Web development options:

  http://www.paul.boddie.net/Python/web_modules.html

I can't personally recommend any of the packages you mention as I haven't tried
any of them, although the most recent information I can find about each of them
is given on the above page. Recently, I have been working a little with Webware
and I do believe that it has promise for developing sophisticated applications.

Regards,

Paul


From flor_pino at hotmail.com  Sun Jan 14 13:05:58 2001
From: flor_pino at hotmail.com (floR)
Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 19:05:58 +0100
Subject: how do i disable buffered output, like Perl's '$|=1'?
References: <979490967.23219.0.pluto.d4ee691b@news.demon.nl> <93so5m$biirv$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <979494993.24992.0.pluto.d4ee691b@news.demon.nl>

Not exactly what I meant, I think.
Okay, what I want to do in particular, is to send 'print' commands to the
browser in intervals, without buffering, something like the following:

print 'Content-type: text/html\n\n'
countdown = 10
while countdown:
    print countdown
    countdown = countdown - 1
    sleep(1)

so that the countdown seems to happen in your browser, instead of waiting
for 10 seconds for the string '10 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1' to appear.


> I'm not sure what the perl code means, but perhaps what
> you're looking for is the '-u' parameter to python:  eg
> python -u myscript.py
>
> HTH
>
> --
>
> Emile van Sebille
> emile at fenx.com
> -------------------
>
>
> "floR" <flor_pino at hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:979490967.23219.0.pluto.d4ee691b at news.demon.nl...
> > I can't find anywhere how I can disable 'buffered output',
> or whatever it is
> > called.
> > In Perl, you simply say $|=1, but in Python?
> > Can anyone help me?
> >
> > TIA,
> > Rolf Raven
> >
> >
>
>




From shenwang at e-mail.com  Thu Jan  4 22:03:03 2001
From: shenwang at e-mail.com (Shen Wang)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 21:03:03 -0600
Subject: question about grouping in RE
Message-ID: <uRa56.100679$4Z5.1575263@nntp0.chicago.il.ameritech.net>

Currently in RE (A)|(B)|(C) create 3 groups, I wonder if there is a way to
make it generate only 1 group. Which is more meaningful in my opinion. But
things are different for named group, in pattern like
(?P<name1>(sub1)(sub2))|(?P<name2>(pat1)), I did want (sub1) and (pat1)
refer to group 2, (sub2) refer to group 3, but I don't want group 'name1'
and 'name2' all refer to group 1, because then I have no way to tell which
part matchs. maybe we can change named group's number to negative?
That's all. I don't know if any guru can patch RE to add new flag like
"merge group name".





From m.faassen at vet.uu.nl  Sun Jan  7 13:04:45 2001
From: m.faassen at vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen)
Date: 7 Jan 2001 18:04:45 GMT
Subject: embedded python - cancel "while 1: pass"
References: <mailman.978719766.1897.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <93ab3t$2vi$1@newshost.accu.uu.nl>

Tim Peters <tim.one at home.com> wrote:

> Guido was writing in Dutch there:  his use of "registry" has nothing to do
> with Windows.  What he means by "registry call" is "a call to
> Py_AddPendingCall", the function which "registers" (in Dutch -- or, for that
> matter, also in English <wink>)

This must be the human Tim speaking here, not the infallible Timbot.
'registry' would be 'register' in this context, and 'registers' would
be 'registreert'. Of course the Dutch generally don't comment our
source code in Dutch but in English, and we use the English terminology
even in Dutch texts, so it gets a bit confusing.

Regards,

Martijn
-- 
History of the 20th Century: WW1, WW2, WW3?
No, WWW -- Could we be going in the right direction?


From grey at despair.rpglink.com  Fri Jan 19 14:27:57 2001
From: grey at despair.rpglink.com (Steve Lamb)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 19:27:57 -0000
Subject: Why no isexec, isread, iswrite, etc (was: I must be missing something obvious: os.path.isexecutable?)
References: <slrn96enju.g1v.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <slrn96ep7c.g1v.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <slrn96erlf.h11.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <uy9w89kjb.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com> <ywR96.7525$AH6.1174891@newsc.telia.net>
Message-ID: <slrn96h59t.l1j.grey@teleute.rpglink.com>

On Fri, 19 Jan 2001 06:54:22 GMT, Fredrik Lundh <fredrik at effbot.org> wrote:
>Another possibility is that "isexec" isn't a portable concept...

>How would you implement it on Windows, for example?

    Since when was portability a problem?  

    *Steve flips open his Beazley book, page 156*

    Last three words in the explination of samefile(), sameopenfile(),
samestat().  "Macintosh and Unix"

    It seems like Python has quite a few methods in its classes which are not
portable across all platforms.  That seems ok.

>Anything having the right magic?  Any file having an extension
>listed in PATHEXT?  Any file you can use with "start" (which in-
>cludes virtually everything these days...)

    That would be up to the person who would want to design such a thing for
Windows.  Given that one appears to be able to have methods for one OS and not
another based on the individual OS capabilities I'm not to concerned on what a
windows version would do in this case (or, for that matter, why one would need
it).

-- 
         Steve C. Lamb         | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your
         ICQ: 5107343          | main connection to the switchboard of souls.
-------------------------------+---------------------------------------------


From robin at alldunn.com  Thu Jan 25 17:39:47 2001
From: robin at alldunn.com (Robin Dunn)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 14:39:47 -0800
Subject: Tkinter vs wxPython: your opinions?
References: <3A6F899F.E164F628@home.com> <hvZb6.2156$_8.33280@news1.rdc1.bc.home.com> <slrn9710o1.73.cerutti@fiad06.norwich.edu>
Message-ID: <nY1c6.87$DPo.11993392@news.randori.com>

"Neil Cerutti" <cerutti at together.net> wrote in message news:slrn9710o1.73.cerutti at fiad06.norwich.edu...
> 
> For comparison purposes, I'm writing my first GUI app, a simple
> wrapper for slrn, in Tkinter and wxPython.
> 
> Tkinter's 'pack' layout manager is super easy to use, and with
> some practice and the excellent documentation, powerful. wxPython
> seems to have a couple of layout managers, but how they should be
> used is a mystery. I've been forced to place everything pixel by
> pixel so far.

Look at the docs and demo for wxSizer and it's derived classes.  It's by far the easiest mechanism available in wxPython, and nearly as powerful as wxLayoutConstraints.

> 
> wxPython is supposed to be faster, but it isn't for the tiny app
> I've written, because it takes nearly 3 times as long to get
> started.

Because it's loading and initializing 10 times as much code!  (I'm working on ways to streamline the initial set of stuff needed to get started, and also to limit the additional DLLs loaded by this initial set...)


> 
> Binding widgets to callbacks in Tkinter is much easier for me to
> understand than the wxPython EVT_ macros. Tkinter's events seem
> much easier to bind, since I don't have to worry about which
> widget generates what event -- they all seem to generate everything
> I've wanted to bind. In wxPython, I haven't figured out how to
> get my app to close if I hit ESC. Nothing I've tried EVT_CHARing
> has bothered to actually generate an event.

EVT_CHAR, EVT_KEY_DOWN, and EVT_KEY_UP only get events when bound to the window or control with the keyboard focus, so it's not what you do if you want to have an application-wide command bound to a key.  Even when dealing with char or key events on the focused window special keys like ESC are sometimes snached by other windows in order to do navigation and things.

What you probably want is an accelerator, which is a way to tell the system to intercept keys and generate menu events from them.  For example, making the text for a menu item like this, "E&xit\tAlt-X" will make the Alt-X key generate the same event that selecting the menu item does.  You can also do accelerators without menu items, and for the ESC key I think you need to do it this way:

    aTable = wxAcceleratorTable([ (wxACCEL_NORMAL,  WXK_ESCAPE, ID_CLOSEAPP) ])
    self.SetAcceleratorTable(aTable)
    EVT_MENU(self, ID_CLOSEAPP, self.OnCloseApp)


> 
> The objects in wxPython are more full-featured (I guess--for some
> definition of full featured), but aren't as easily configurable
> as the Tkinter ones. For example, in Tkinter, I've bound
> right-clicking to a list box of news servers. A popup menu allows
> me to remove that new server from the list, or add another one. I
> can catch a EVT_RIGHT_BUTTON in wxPython, but I can't (so far)
> find out which list item the pointer was near when the event
> occurred. (For that matter, I can't make a popup menu either yet
> either, though I *know* it's possible. It says in the
> documentation that a Menu can be a popup.)

See the wxListCtrl demo.


> 
> wxPython's documentation seems to be in the state Tkinter's was
> back when all there was was the _Tkinter life preserver_.

I hope to rectify this over the next few months.  Lack of Python specific documentation has always been an issue, and it is now getting near the top of my must-have list.

> 
> Better advice is probably to try them both for some small sample
> app, like I have, and make up your own mind.  

This is my recommendation as well.  My experience is that some people have a natural ability to pick up and understand wxPython and Tkinter seems mind boggling strange or complex to them.  For others it is completely opposite, they grok Tkinter just fine, but "just don't get" wxPython.  Personally I think that this means that there are two incompatible ways that Pythoneer's brains are wired, but I could be wrong.  I suppose that a "wxPython for Tkinter Programmers" document would be useful, but my brain is wired wrong so I couldn't write it.  <wink> 


hold-your-brain-up-to-the-scanner-please-ly y'rs,

-- 
Robin Dunn
Software Craftsman
robin at AllDunn.com       Java give you jitters?
http://wxPython.org      Relax with wxPython!


> -- 
> Neil Cerutti <cerutti at together.net>
> "If you're gonna score 125 points in a game, you've only got to
> play good enough defense to hold the other team to 124. How
> the hell hard is that?" -- Red Auerbach



From m.wilson at bibliocraft.com  Fri Jan  5 07:38:55 2001
From: m.wilson at bibliocraft.com (Mark Wilson)
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 12:38:55 -0000
Subject: Example of handling C callbacks
Message-ID: <021901c07714$9deed460$1e824ac3@mwdell1>

Le

>Le Snelson <le_snelson at transtechinc.cc> wrote:
>I have a legacy system which uses an interprocess
communications (IPC)
>library. It behaves very much like X-windows.  It has its
own event loop
>and invokes callbacks in the same manner.
>
>What I would like to do is replace one of the processes in
the middle of
>this network of processes with a Python application.  So,
I'm looking
>for examples of how to handle C callbacks in extensions.
One thought
>I've had is to SWIG the libray interfaces.  This seems fine
for sending
>messages, but I can't visualize the callback
implementation.

Sounds like you need to check out PyEval_CallObject() etc.
Take a look at the Python docs "Extending Python with C or
C++>1.6 Calling Python Functions from C" (I'm looking at the
1.6 docs here - hope its not moved for 2.0). It may also be
worth taking a look at the book "Programming Python" by Mark
Lutz - quite old now, but fairly extensive discussion of
this kind of thing, plus some useful sample code.

Hope that helps.

Mark





From junaftnoon at nospamplzyahoo.com  Mon Jan 29 02:22:09 2001
From: junaftnoon at nospamplzyahoo.com (June Kim)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 16:22:09 +0900
Subject: SICP subsets exercise in python?
References: <980725379.806449@emperor.labs.agilent.com> <G7wDLI.96M@world.std.com> <980731358.408959@emperor.labs.agilent.com>
Message-ID: <9535q3$kts$1@news.nuri.net>

I don't think these are better ways(actually awful in terms of readibility)
but you might find them interesting. They are one-liners.

def subsets(list):
    return list and [ z+c for z in [[list[0]],[]] \
           for c in subsets(list[1:]) or [[]]]

or

def subsets2(list):
    return  list and map(lambda x,list=list: [list[0]]+x ,
subsets2(list[1:]))  \
             + subsets2(list[1:]) or [[]]

Best regards,

June

"Brian Zhou" <brian_zhou at agilentNOSPAM.com> wrote in message
news:980731358.408959 at emperor.labs.agilent.com...
> Thanks Will,
>
> The problem I had was that being a python newbie, I didn't know in python
+
> is used for concat lists. Tried append(), insert(,0) without success. If
you
> happen to use python2.0+, list comprehension make it reads even better.
>
> def subsets(biglist):
>     if [] == biglist:
>         return [[]]
>     else:
>         rest = subsets(biglist[1:])
>         return rest + [[biglist[0]] + x for x in rest]
>
> /Brian
>
> "Will Ware" <wware at world.std.com> wrote in message
> news:G7wDLI.96M at world.std.com...
> > Brian Zhou (brian_zhou at agilentNOSPAM.com) wrote:
> > > Just curious if I can do it easily in Python, kind of give up after a
> few
> > > tries. Anyone?
> >
> > You could do worse than a straightforward translation from Scheme to
> Python:
> >
> > def subsets(biglist):
> >     if not biglist:
> >         return [ [ ] ]
> >     rest = subsets(biglist[1:])
> >     def func(ss, s=biglist[0]):
> >         return [s] + ss
> >     return rest + map(func, rest)
> >
> > There is probably a more idiomatically Pythonic way to do this. I'm
> > too lazy to think of it right now. I'd start by looking for
opportunities
> > to replace recursion with iteration.
> >
> > --
> > import string,time,os;print string.join((lambda x:x[:10]+x[8:])(map(
> > lambda x:string.center("*"*(lambda x:((x<24) ### Seasons Greetings, Will
> Ware
> > *(x-3))+3)(x),24),range(1,28, 2))),"\n") ################
> wware at world.std.com
>
>



From max at alcyone.com  Sun Jan 28 17:02:42 2001
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 14:02:42 -0800
Subject: [Off topic] allowed to put Python material on the Web?
References: <3a730931.31998180@news.skynet.be> <mf867t0go4en09o0of5r5johp8abgqvg2q@4ax.com> <3A73940E.2637C648@alcyone.com> <slrn9798qu.m44.neelk@alum.mit.edu>
Message-ID: <3A749702.4B239F30@alcyone.com>

Neelakantan Krishnaswami wrote:

> Erik Max Francis <max at alcyone.com> wrote:
>
> > Sheila King wrote:
> >
> > > Technically, once the messages are posted to Usenet, anyone can
> > > archive and copy them.
> >       ...
> > > Authors of Usenet posts still retain copyright to
> > > their own material.
> >
> > These two statements are inconsistent with one another.  (The latter
> > is the one that is correct, by the way.)
> 
> No, they're not.
> 
> When someone posts a message they have to grant permission to people
> to copy, archive and redistribute their messages -- since a) that's
> how Usenet works, b) since posting to Usenet is wholly voluntary, and
> c) judges and courts are not entirely stupid.

"Anyone can archive and copy them" is not sufficiently limited to be
accurate.  You cannot copy a Usenet post uncredit into a book you're
writing and be free of copyright infringement, for instance.

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, US / 37 20 N 121 53 W / ICQ16063900 / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ War is cruelty, and you cannot refine it.
\__/ Karl Shapiro
    Computer science / http://www.alcyone.com/max/reference/compsci/
 A computer science reference.


From skreech at socket.net  Fri Jan 12 18:45:42 2001
From: skreech at socket.net (Gavin Cooper)
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 23:45:42 GMT
Subject: Using Python SSL
References: <93nt06$4eu$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <3A5F8255.55F71A1D@stroeder.com>
Message-ID: <93o4v4$bic$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

Michael <michael at stroeder.com> wrote:
> skreech at my-deja.com wrote:
> >
> > I try to use the socket.ssl
> > function I get SSL_connect errors.
> > [..]
> > I donno where to go from here, so any help would
> > be appreceated.
>
> I can't help you but I would suggest that you try to test your code
> against the OpenSSL implementation. "openssl s_server" and "openssl
> s_client" can produce a lot of debug output.
>
> Ciao, Michael.
>

Well that helped the situation, I've figured out that my client does
indeed work, but my server does not. s_client ends with this error
trying to connect to the Python SSL "server":

3722:error:140770FC:SSL routines:SSL23_GET_SERVER_HELLO:unknown
protocol:s23_clnt.c:460:

This leads me to think that there might not be a way to use Python's SSL
like this to code an SSL _server_. I'll have to browse the socket module
source some more to make sure, though. Thanks for pointing out the test
server/clients though.

Gavin Cooper


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From max at alcyone.com  Tue Jan 16 16:25:53 2001
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 13:25:53 -0800
Subject: [ANNOUNCE] FreeImage 2.0.0 out!
References: <mailman.979663278.19010.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3A64BC61.E7570F28@alcyone.com>

Oleg Broytmann wrote:

>    Linux certainly has! Thank you for explanation :)))

What are you talking about?

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, US / 37 20 N 121 53 W / ICQ16063900 / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ The tremor of awe is the best in man.
\__/ Goethe
    The laws list / http://www.alcyone.com/max/physics/laws/
 Laws, rules, principles, effects, paradoxes, etc. in physics.


From phd at phd.pp.ru  Tue Jan 23 09:29:14 2001
From: phd at phd.pp.ru (Oleg Broytmann)
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 17:29:14 +0300 (MSK)
Subject: About Content-Transfer-Encoding
In-Reply-To: <01b001c08545$2ee0dca0$020000c3@node02>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0101231728380.11674-100000@fep132.fep.ru>

On Tue, 23 Jan 2001, Dhirja Gangopadhyay wrote:
> I use the MimeWriter module to build a MIME body that I then send over SMTP
> using smtplib.
>
> How can I force content-transfer-encoding to base64 ?
> Content-type is text/plain, text/html and text/xml.

   http://www.faqts.com/knowledge_base/view.phtml/aid/3992/fid/380

Oleg.
----
     Oleg Broytmann            http://phd.pp.ru/            phd at phd.pp.ru
           Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN.




From fredrik at effbot.org  Thu Jan 11 10:41:06 2001
From: fredrik at effbot.org (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 15:41:06 GMT
Subject: Speed of Python vs. Perl
References: <mailman.979205181.25734.python-list@python.org> <BUh76.10203$X3.65817@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <muk76.5495$Qb7.762886@newsb.telia.net>

Steve Holden wrote:
> Would it be worth putting an optimization in so that the required paths,
> etc., were pre-computed (for those who had specifically asked for such a
> step)?

if you know exactly what code you want to use, you can easily
plug in a custom importer, and put everything in a single archive
file (gordon's installer kit and pythonworks both let you do this).

Cheers /F




From zope at thewebsons.com  Sat Jan 27 08:16:20 2001
From: zope at thewebsons.com (Ben Ocean)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 05:16:20 -0800
Subject: Problems with Install
In-Reply-To: <20010126133015.B7309@harmony.cs.rit.edu>
References: <5.0.0.25.0.20010126083542.009e3290@mail.earthlink.net>
 <5.0.0.25.0.20010126083542.009e3290@mail.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.0.20010127045146.00a42dc0@thewebsons.com>

Unfortunately I need to install python 1.5.2 from source because I need to 
configure it with multithreads. Equally unfortunately, I don't have the 
luxury of time to learn C right this red-hot second. But I need to get this 
installation working!!! I've run into this error while running *make*. D 
said it was due to an error in the myreadline.o So I re-ran make and copied 
what printed to screen. The myreadline.o stuff doesn't appear until the 
last few lines:

thor:/apache/vhosts/Python-1.5.2# make
(cd Modules; make -f Makefile.pre Makefile)
make[1]: Entering directory `/apache/vhosts/Python-1.5.2/Modules'
make[1]: `Makefile' is up to date.
make[1]: Leaving directory `/apache/vhosts/Python-1.5.2/Modules'
making Makefile in subdirectory .
make[1]: Entering directory `/apache/vhosts/Python-1.5.2'
make[1]: `Makefile' is up to date.
make[1]: Leaving directory `/apache/vhosts/Python-1.5.2'
making Makefile in subdirectory Parser
make[1]: Entering directory `/apache/vhosts/Python-1.5.2/Parser'
make[1]: `Makefile' is up to date.
make[1]: Leaving directory `/apache/vhosts/Python-1.5.2/Parser'
making Makefile in subdirectory Objects
make[1]: Entering directory `/apache/vhosts/Python-1.5.2/Objects'
make[1]: `Makefile' is up to date.
make[1]: Leaving directory `/apache/vhosts/Python-1.5.2/Objects'
making Makefile in subdirectory Python
make[1]: Entering directory `/apache/vhosts/Python-1.5.2/Python'
make[1]: `Makefile' is up to date.
make[1]: Leaving directory `/apache/vhosts/Python-1.5.2/Python'
making Makefile in subdirectory Modules
make[1]: Entering directory `/apache/vhosts/Python-1.5.2/Modules'
make[1]: `Makefile' is up to date.
make[1]: Leaving directory `/apache/vhosts/Python-1.5.2/Modules'
(rm -f Modules/hassignal; cd Modules; make hassignal)
make[1]: Entering directory `/apache/vhosts/Python-1.5.2/Modules'
rm -f hassignal
for i in regexmodule.o regexpr.o  pcremodule.o 
pypcre.o  posixmodule.o  signalmo
dule.o  arraymodule.o  cmathmodule.o  mathmodule.o  stropmodule.o 
structmodule.
o  timemodule.o  operator.o  fcntlmodule.o  pwdmodule.o  grpmodule.o 
selectmodu
le.o  socketmodule.o  errnomodule.o  md5module.o 
md5c.o  shamodule.o  rotormodul
e.o  newmodule.o  binascii.o  parsermodule.o  cStringIO.o  cPickle.o 
config.o ge
tpath.o main.o getbuildinfo.o; do \
             if test "$i" = "signalmodule.o"; then \
                echo yes >hassignal; break; \
             fi; \
         done
make[1]: Leaving directory `/apache/vhosts/Python-1.5.2/Modules'
cd Parser ; make OPT="-g -O2" VERSION="1.5" \
                 prefix="/usr/local" exec_prefix="/usr/local" all
make[1]: Entering directory `/apache/vhosts/Python-1.5.2/Parser'
gcc -g -O2 -I./../Include -I.. -DHAVE_CONFIG_H   -c myreadline.c -o 
myreadline.o
In file included from /usr/include/errno.h:36,
                  from ../Include/Python.h:59,
                  from myreadline.c:42:
/usr/include/bits/errno.h:25: linux/errno.h: No such file or directory
make[1]: *** [myreadline.o] Error 1
make[1]: Leaving directory `/apache/vhosts/Python-1.5.2/Parser'
make: *** [Parser] Error 2

Just for fun I tried installing an rpm as you mentioned. The strangest 
thing happened. When I got to the actual installation command, the darn 
thing just vanished into thin air! running a whereis for python turns up 
*nothing*! Oh, geez, what'd I do wrong?
TIA,
BenO


At 01:30 PM 1/26/2001 -0500, you wrote:
>On Fri, Jan 26, 2001 at 08:36:51AM -0800, Ben Ocean wrote:
>| Hi;
>| I'm at a loss to understand why I can't get python working. I had it
>| working before I moved my server. I re-installed it from src and typed
>| *python* and got a prompt. I was ecstatic. So I went to re-install Zope and
>| that installation failed. So I typed in *python* again and got
>| bash: python: command not found
>
>It's not in the path.
>
>| How is that? It was just there! Where did it go? So I ripped out everything
>| that had to do with python on my server and started over. When I got to
>| *make* I got this error:
>|
>| make[1]: *** [myreadline.o] Error 1
>| make[1]: Leaving directory `/apache/vhosts/Python-1.5.2/Parser'
>| make: *** [Parser] Error 2
>
>The actual error is above this point.  There is some problem building
>myreadline.o.  Maybe a compiler error or a linker error.  Once you are
>at this point, scroll up in your term and find where gcc gave the
>actual error message.  (make doesn't know what went wrong, only that
>gcc said something went wrong)
>
>|
>| It repeated with *make install* What am I missing? Also, I may have made a
>| bad mistake in deleting everything python in my box, please advise. Running
>| RedHat 6.2.
>| TIA,BenO
>|
>
>I'd advise along the same lines as David : use the rpms.  If you want
>the lastest and greatest, get the srpm.  Then:
>
>$ rpm -ta <name>.srpm
>
>This will create <name>.i386.rpm in /usr/src/redhat/RPMS/i386
>
>(by default, if you are using an x86 system)
>
>then
>
># rpm -Uvh /usr/src/redhat/RPMS/i386/<name>.i386.rpm
>
>
>If you really want to build from the sources, it is a good idea to
>learn C (or at least the C build environment) so that you will
>understand the error messages you get.  Packages are nice because
>non-programmers don't have to deal with build/compilation errors.
>
>-D
>
>
>--
>http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list




From clickron at webtv.net  Tue Jan 23 23:34:57 2001
From: clickron at webtv.net (clickron at webtv.net)
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 23:34:57 -0500 (EST)
Subject: beep again
Message-ID: <5251-3A6E5B71-16@storefull-163.iap.bryant.webtv.net>

Thanks for answering my last question. I get the beep now, but no matter
what numbers I put in for the frequency and duration it doesn't change.


Ron



From ahopkins at dynacare.com  Tue Jan 23 12:18:25 2001
From: ahopkins at dynacare.com (Albert Hopkins)
Date: 23 Jan 2001 11:18:25 -0600
Subject: Complete list of Python IDEs
References: <slrn96q24u.c2s.ahopkins@ahopkins.dynacare.com> <25708BF4E69C79D8.642051B7F9A3B6D4.27F3341E69B04670@lp.airnews.net>
Message-ID: <slrn96rem7.jf0.ahopkins@ahopkins.dynacare.com>

I guess I'll start my own list.  Will post a followup when I have one.

On 23 Jan 2001 08:36:37 -0600, Cameron Laird <claird at starbase.neosoft.com> wrote:
>In article <slrn96q24u.c2s.ahopkins at ahopkins.dynacare.com>,
>Albert Hopkins <ahopkins at dynacare.com> wrote:
>>
>>I know there are a few open source and commercial Python-ware IDEs 
>>available, but does there exist a list somwhere comparing features as well 
>>as contact info?
>			.
>			.
>			.
>I know of none.  If you or another enthusiast chooses
>to write it, though, I'm sure we can find at least one
>outlet to publish it.
>-- 


-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----


From tim.one at home.com  Wed Jan 24 03:48:43 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 03:48:43 -0500
Subject: SourceForge problems [was: libraries=['m'] in config.py [Re: Python 2.1 alpha 1 ... ]]
In-Reply-To: <Pine.NXT.4.21.0101231243380.227-100000@localhost.virginia.edu>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCGENFIKAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Steven D. Majewski]
> Please excuse the OT: I don't see any point in adding another unanswered
> me-to complaint to the dozens already on SourceForge. Since there's a lot
> of SourceForge users on this list maybe somebody knows what's up:
>
> SourceForge seems to be pretty effectively broken for "new" projects
> ("new" =  those registered in the last month or two. )
>
> ...
>
> Does anyone know what going on at SourceForge ?

According to http://sourceforge.net/ today,

    Hosted Projects:   14,366
    Registered Users: 110,619

I guess that if we dug deep enough, that would pretty much explain
everything <0.3 wink>.

growing-pains-ly y'rs  - tim




From lele at seldati.it  Mon Jan  8 15:27:21 2001
From: lele at seldati.it (Lele Gaifax)
Date: 08 Jan 2001 21:27:21 +0100
Subject: Web devel with python. Whats the best route?
In-Reply-To: "Alex Martelli"'s message of "Mon, 8 Jan 2001 17:46:13 +0100"
References: <mailman.978910629.6814.python-list@python.org> <93cqvi0191h@news1.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <m3zoh1eqmu.fsf@paci.nautilus>

>>>>> On Mon, 8 Jan 2001 17:46:13 +0100, "Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com> said:

    AM> "Chris Watson" <chris at voodooland.net> wrote in message
    AM> news:mailman.978910629.6814.python-list at python.org...
    >> I'm about to start converting the small fool proof (ha ha)
    >> admin system I have been working from console based to web
    >> based. What is the easiest way to go about integrating python
    >> into apache so I can start web'izing this app? mod_python,
    >> mod_snake, PyApache?

    AM> CGI.  Really.  Your admin system doesn't look like the kind of
    AM> thing that will be continuously getting multiple hits a
    AM> second, making CGI overhead a problem.  If that is the case,
    AM> CGI is easiest.  *Do the simplest thing that can possibly
    AM> work*!

PyApache does exactly this, only faster... 
...but I'm a little biased here :)
 
    AM> <snip>

    AM> "Session continuity" will have to be provided via cookies, but
    AM> that's not really all that hard -- the amount of state you
    AM> need to save and restore between hits is most likely limited
    AM> anyway (making it acceptable for cookie-residence), or else
    AM> you can always use appropriate shelve files (presumably
    AM> relying on gdbm, whihc is OK) and just cookie the
    AM> shelve-access keys (that might impact scalability IF you were
    AM> close to the hit-per-second mark, but, are you _really_
    AM> worried about such loads?).

All mentioned modules do help in session handling, by providing some
sort of persistent storage (tipically a dictionary).

    AM> Then again, maybe I'm simply being a dinosaur
    AM> on this specific theme!-)

You are not alone !-)

    AM> Alex

Ciao, lele.

PS: Alex, un ciao particolare! Ti ricordi di me? Sublink... :)
-- 
nickname: Lele Gaifax	| Quando vivro' di quello che ho pensato ieri
real: Emanuele Gaifas	| comincero' ad aver paura di chi mi copia.
email: lele at seldati.it	|		-- Fortunato Depero, 1929.




From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Jan  8 07:05:50 2001
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2001 07:05:50 -0500
Subject: Execution of import (was Re: boolean xor)
References: <mailman.978928989.19268.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3A59AD1E.A8CA711E@engcorp.com>

Tim Peters wrote:
> 
> > def xor(a,b):
> >     from operator import truth
> >     return truth(a) ^ truth(b)
> 
> [Peter Hansen]
> > An aside: does the 'from .. import' statement  execute every time
> > the function 'xor' is called, or only during the execution
> > of the 'def' statement?
> 
> Imports of X after the first are just lookups, mapping the
> module name to the (already executed) module object and retrieving the
> latter.

Despite the timing thread that follows your response, your
answer is all I needed. <wink> Temporary brain fart made me
incapable of picturing that 'truth' was not rebound
dynamically every time through the function (and therefore
that _of course_ import must executed each time through).  
I guess all that talk about Java and C recently switched 
my brain back to a less dynamic mode.  Thanks. :)


From sandj.williams at gte.net  Fri Jan 12 10:38:38 2001
From: sandj.williams at gte.net (Steve Williams)
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 15:38:38 GMT
Subject: why no "do : until"?
References: <mailman.979188492.12187.python-list@python.org> <90278A4rcamesz@127.0.0.1> <mailman.979261813.31482.python-list@python.org> <t5su71caku5gd0@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <3A5F264D.4D7C024A@gte.net>

Andrew Henshaw wrote:

> "D-Man" <dsh8290 at rit.edu> wrote in message
> news:mailman.979261813.31482.python-list at python.org...
> > On Fri, Jan 12, 2001 at 12:33:58AM +0000, Robert Amesz wrote:
> > [snip]
> ...snip
> [more snip]

>
> Python's existing 'if condition: break', with its colon, stands out and,
> more clearly than the 'until', shows its true function; which is,
> essentially, a goto past 'something else' and out of the loop.  I believe
> that support for this is more likely than for the other more significant
> changes.
>

If you have nested 'do' statements, you have to keep track of the nesting
structure to find a break target.  Searching for the first 'break' after a 'do'
may or may not find the loop invariant.

Similarly, if you have multiple 'breaks' for a single 'do', the first one you
find may not be the one that bit you.

With 'break', the program flow no longer corresponds to the program listing
(the original complaint about g*t*, IIRC).

There will always be debugging questions such as "how did I get here?" and "why
did I skip this?" in procedural languages.  'Break' adds a little extra
excitement to these questions.




From amk at mira.erols.com  Tue Jan  2 19:30:35 2001
From: amk at mira.erols.com (A.M. Kuchling)
Date: 3 Jan 2001 00:30:35 GMT
Subject: Recursion
References: <mailman.978384722.18514.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrn954tef.nd.amk@207-172-37-36.s36.tnt7.ann.va.dialup.rcn.com>

On Mon, 1 Jan 2001 16:31:42 -0500, Tim Peters <tim.one at home.com> wrote:
>> In Ruby, you can input a value as high as 763 before you get a
>> SystemStackError (stack level too deep) error.
>
>The recursion limit in Python varies across platforms; I assume that's true
>in Ruby too; in Python you can use sys.setrecursionlimit() to fiddle it (but
>if you set it "too high", you risk having the interpreter blow up due to C
>stack corruption).

The value of 763 is interesting; since it's not a magic constant that
a human would have chosen, that means Ruby must be detecting when the
stack is near overflow.  This might be worth borrowing for Python, so
I decided to take a look.

Digging into ruby-1.6.1, the code that trips the error is this:

    if ((++tick & 0xff) == 0) {
        CHECK_INTS;             /* better than nothing */
        if (stack_length() > STACK_LEVEL_MAX) {
            rb_raise(rb_eSysStackError, "stack level too deep");
        }
    }

Very similar to the corresponding bit of ceval.c.  STACK_LEVEL_MAX is
either a constant or a value obtained from getrlimit().  

stack_length(), then, is the last piece:

extern VALUE *rb_gc_stack_start;
static int
stack_length()
{
    VALUE pos;

#ifdef sparc
    return rb_gc_stack_start - &pos + 0x80;
#else
    return (&pos < rb_gc_stack_start) ? rb_gc_stack_start - &pos
	                              : &pos - rb_gc_stack_start;
#endif
}

Ignore the "#ifdef sparc" branch, and it's quite
simple. rb_gc_stack_start is determined by doing {VALUE start;
rb_gc_stack_start = &start;} during program initialization. 

Is this approach worth pursuing for Python?  This probably depends on
nonportable behaviour not guaranteed by ANSI C (the stack pointer is
continuously incremented/decremented, and not segmented or something
weird), but for most practical platforms these assumptions probably
hold.

--amk


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Tue Jan 30 04:13:19 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 10:13:19 +0100
Subject: How to call a class method from a string representing a class name
References: <3A745F5E.5F035F1D@axionet.com> <951p2j0e8@news2.newsguy.com> <3A74E327.C02A86FC@axionet.com> <953uge0vkg@news2.newsguy.com> <3A765B29.6CDD5DD7@axionet.com>
Message-ID: <9560jd0ak7@news2.newsguy.com>

"Andre Fortin" <andrefor at axionet.com> wrote in message
news:3A765B29.6CDD5DD7 at axionet.com...
    [snip]
> > different specs -- "modules only" as opposed to
> > any object, "ever imported anywhere" as opposed to
> > "in the current global namespace"
>
> This is a problem. Here is the semantic I'm trying to achieve:
>
> If 'THIS module here' has heard of a module named 'test'
> call test.myFunc, which must exist according to the specs

So it's OK to raise exceptions (or also OK to mask them),
if 'test' exists AND the current module 'has heard of it',
if said module lacks a myFunc entry, or said entry's not
callable?  OK.


> if test.myFunc returns false,
> instantiate test.test and use it for further processing

OK.

> Hmmm. It looks like the sys.modules is not what I'm looking for.

It doesn't tell you whether THIS module has 'heard of' "test" --
just if "test" has ever been imported by ANY module.

> You are suggesting
>
> > callable = eval(test+'.myFunc')
>
> which is likely to be more costly compared to what I started with e.g.
>
> try:
>     myObj = globals()[className]
>     apply(vars(myObj)['myFunc'], ('Some text',))
> except KeyError:
>     pass

To make the approach you started with directly comparable to
my suggestion of using eval, let's stick to "get the callable
if any":

def getCallable1(moduleName):
    try: return eval(moduleName+'.myFunc')
    except NameError: return None

def getCallable2(moduleName):
    try:
        myObj = globals()[moduleName]
        return vars(myObj).get('myFunc')
    except KeyError: return None

Measuring these implementations shows a time per call of
(on my usual old P3/300 box) about 2 or 3 milliseconds for
getCallable1 (module present/absent) versus about 1 or 2
for getCallable2 (module present/absent).  So, yes, it IS
slower to let the very general 'eval' builtin do all the
work -- by about 1 millisecond each time.  Whether this
level of overhead IS significant, only you can tell -- it
depends, of course, on how likely it is that 'test' will
be present or absent, how much more work you must do if
it's present, and how often you will be using this in your
application -- e.g., if it's just a few thousand times and
a few seconds' total slowdown (on an old box) is tolerable
compared to your application's overal needs, then this is
no real problem.

If performance IS a crucial concern, then more work is
needed.  The key condition you want to test for is, "is
there a variable named 'test' inside the globals() for
this module"; it seems unlikely that this can be done
much faster than by getting at the globals of this module
and trying to fetch the 'test' entry!  For getting
the attribute 'myFunc' of said entry, though, getattr
appears much more direct and explicit.

def getCallable3(moduleName, globs=globals()):
    try:
        myObj = globs[moduleName]
        return getattr(myObj, 'myFunc')
    except KeyError: return None

There is not much in it, either way, between the 2 and 3
versions in terms of performance; about one microsecond's
advantage for one or the other, depending on whether
module 'test' is present or absent.  I would thus choose
to ignore any performance considerations for this choice
and go with 3 on the grounds of its relative simplicity
and directness.

Of course, you SHOULD re-do the timing on the boxes that
are of direct interest to YOUR use, IF performance on this
task is in fact crucial to your purposes (if it isn't, go
with version 1, with eval -- "do the simplest thing that
could possibly work" is my general suggestion).


Alex





From emile at fenx.com  Fri Jan 26 09:03:05 2001
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 06:03:05 -0800
Subject: python-2.1 function attributes
References: <mailman.980515832.8534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <94s0r0$elb5e$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>

"Tony J Ibbs (Tibs)" <tony at lsl.co.uk> wrote in message
news:mailman.980515832.8534.python-list at python.org...
> Michael Hudson wrote:
> > How about "having"?
> >
> > def func(param) having (publish=1, secure=0):
> >     """ docco """
> >     print "bobbins"
> >
> > to emphasize the attribute-ness one could use a dot
prefix:
> >
> > def func(param) having (.publish=1, .secure=0):
> >     """ docco """
> >     print "bobbins"
> >
> > I think I like this (though I'm not sure about the dot
> > prefix).  I might see if I can whip up a patch...
>
> Yes, "having" is better than "with". That's neat. And it
doesn't have
> any obvious other meaning for me. (the important thing was
probably
> getting away from "with" - once that's done, if people
really don't like
> "having", suggesting new words is simple enough, at
leisure)
>
> I'm not sure about the dot prefix either - it makes them
obviously odd,
> but feels sort-of unPythonic. I think I prefer without.
>
>

I also like it without the dot, as it opens the door to
allowing *args and **kwargs style parameter passing
interpretation.

--

Emile van Sebille
emile at fenx.com
-------------------






From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Tue Jan  9 08:15:52 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 14:15:52 +0100
Subject: Can we in python code, catch exception generated by C++ pythonized  function?
References: <3A5A4545.661385AD@aristotech.com>
Message-ID: <93f30s0231k@news1.newsguy.com>

"Siu-Tong Hui" <tong at aristotech.com> wrote in message
news:3A5A4545.661385AD at aristotech.com...
> I tried and it won't. Anybody have any workaround for that? Any pointer
> is appreciated. Thanks.

What you see on the Python level as a Python exception
is denoted by a C-level function returning NULL (a zero
pointer) rather than a PyObject* (a pointer to a PyObject),
as well as having made the appropriate PyErr_... calls
to define the details of the exception-object being
'raised'.  This is part of Python's C API.

"Exceptions" raised/handled by other protocols (such as,
C++ Exceptions, COM Exceptions, Win/NT SEH Exceptions,
and so on) have no a-priori connection with this specific
exception protocol.  You (or whatever framework you're
using to map your code to Python's C API) must bridge
the gap, if you want it to be bridged.

You're not telling us which (if any) framework (such as
Boost Python, CXX, etc) you may be using to map C++ code
to Python's C API, so, as a guess, you may be using the
raw C API from C++.  That's OK, but then you also need
to do the needed bridging at the raw C API level.


E.g., where you now have something like:

PyObject* myFunction(PyObject* self, PyObject* args)
{
    // lots and lots of code snipped
    return Py_BuildValue("");    // or whatever
}

you will instead have something like:

PyObject* myFunction(PyObject* self, PyObject* args)
{
    try {
        // lots and lots of code snipped
        return Py_BuildValue("");    // or whatever
    } catch(...) {    // more specific catch clauses work better
        // whatever PyErr... calls are appropriate
        return 0;
    }
}


Alex





From pen_man at my-deja.com  Wed Jan 17 20:13:53 2001
From: pen_man at my-deja.com (penman)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 01:13:53 GMT
Subject: Displaying HTMLs with Tkinter
References: <945db6$umq$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <945g0b$sd$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

In article <945db6$umq$1 at nnrp1.deja.com>,
  penman <pen_man at my-deja.com> wrote:
> Is there any way that I can display HTML texts in Tkinter?
> (Like in wxPython -- HTML widget?)
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> Sent via Deja.com
> http://www.deja.com/
>

Did a web search and found the following message.

[quote]
>> So I'm wondering - is there any sort of Tk (or other) module which
will
>> display HTML code in a window?

The Tk module indeed does have the capability to display HTML.  If you
look
in the Demos/www directory in the standard Python distribution, try
running
"www8.py file:<filename>" and "www12.py file:<filename>".
[end of quote]

But I can't find the files anywhere. Are they obsolete now?


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From aahz at panix.com  Sun Jan 28 00:47:50 2001
From: aahz at panix.com (Aahz Maruch)
Date: 27 Jan 2001 21:47:50 -0800
Subject: Thread Safety
References: <980660755.2138768834@news.silcom.com>
Message-ID: <950bq6$h1t$1@panix6.panix.com>

In article <980660755.2138768834 at news.silcom.com>,
Clarence Gardner  <clarence at netlojix.com> wrote:
>
>I have a multithreaded program in which I use the following pattern in
>various places, because I was pretty sure it was thread-safe.  But since
>I was just reading the thread about statcache, I thought I'd ask just to be
>sure.  The code is in a function that runs periodically and disposes of
>accumulated work:
>
>def Periodic():
>    global PendingDataStorage,PendingStatusUpdates
>    while 1:
>        time.sleep(10)
>        Data,PendingDataStorage = PendingDataStorage,[]
>        if Data:
>            StoreDataPoints(Data)
>        Data,PendingStatusUpdates = PendingStatusUpdates,[]
>        if Data:
>            SetErrorStatus(Data)
>
>The code I'm talking about are the two binding statements, where
>I bind to two names which form a tuple, rather than two statements,
>which would certainly not be thread-safe.

That's safe, yes, for as long as the GIL exists.  I personally would
prefer to use a singleton class instance or a static module variable
rather than a "global" variable, but that's more a matter of taste.

Another thing you could do to make your code a bit more efficient would
be to do this:

    if not (PendingDataStorage or PendingStatusUpdates):
        time.sleep(10)

In the end, though, I think I'd most likely split this loop into two
separate threads and use Queue.Queue() unless you have a specific reason
for wanting to batch up work every ten seconds.  That would guarantee
the best response time.
-- 
                      --- Aahz (Copyright 2001 by aahz at pobox.com)

Androgynous poly kinky vanilla queer het    <*>     http://www.rahul.net/aahz/
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6

"I heard Commentary and Dissent had merged and formed Dysentary."


From mspiggie at my-deja.com  Wed Jan 31 18:45:37 2001
From: mspiggie at my-deja.com (mspiggie at my-deja.com)
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 23:45:37 GMT
Subject: Any practice exercises for beginner???
References: <qz%d6.29887$KP3.8385706@news3.rdc1.on.home.com>
Message-ID: <95a82u$b6r$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

You may find some interesting ideas and source code at:

http://www.lowerstandard.com/python/pythonsource.html

Rob Andrews

In article <qz%d6.29887$KP3.8385706 at news3.rdc1.on.home.com>,
  "shaka" <fabrice.n at home.com> wrote:
>
>
>  I was just wondering beside the tutorial if there was any practice
> exercises to reinforce beginners strength in python?
> I can recall that when learning Java, some Java website offered some
> exercises for beginners.
>
>


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Jan 19 12:20:59 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 18:20:59 +0100
Subject: Evaluting a python code in a string
References: <Se_96.394$mY4.179630@news.uswest.net>
Message-ID: <949t2d0bug@news1.newsguy.com>

"Steve Tuckner" <sat at multitech.com> wrote in message
news:Se_96.394$mY4.179630 at news.uswest.net...
> In Perl you can evaluation perl code that is embedded in a string by using
> the Eval function. For example the following code:
>
> $i = "hello"
> eval "print $i";
>
> will print "hello" to the terminal.
>
> How can a person do a similar function in Python?

To execute a statement held in a string:

i = 'hello'
exec 'print %s' % i

> I tried the following code:
>
> import code
> c = code.compile_command("print \"hello\"")
> code.runcode(c)
>
> and I get a run-time exception: Attribute error: runcode. I get the same
> error if instead I just use the runsource() function.

compile_command returns a code-object; I'm not sure where you
got the idea that a code-object has either a runcode or a runsource
method.

If you wish, you can use a code-object as a parameter to the exec
statement -- saves having to re-parse a string each time.  But you
may as well get the code-object from the builtin compile function --
all code.compile_command is adding is heuristics to determine if
a command (entered interactively) is incomplete.

    c = compile('print "hello"', '<string>', 'exec')

and then

    exec c


Alex





From gerhard.nospam at bigfoot.de  Fri Jan 12 09:49:01 2001
From: gerhard.nospam at bigfoot.de (Gerhard =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 15:49:01 +0100
Subject: Binaries for mySQL module ?
References: <9%t76.1516$B6.336141@news1.rdc1.md.home.com> <slrn95t2k7.mh.gerhard.nospam@lilith.hqd-internal.de> <t5t4e4holh0e9e@corp.supernews.com> <93mpi0$3v1$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <slrn95u6t8.no.gerhard.nospam@lilith.hqd-internal.de>

As said before, MySQLdb binaries for win32 can be downloaded at
http://highqualdev.com This happens to be my own homepage. :-)

Gerhard

On Fri, 12 Jan 2001 11:24:52 GMT, Hamish Lawson typed into his computer:
>Eric Hagemann:
>
>    Are there binaries for mySQLmodule for win32 available ?
>
>Jason Cunliffe:
>
>    Check carefully at: http://mysql.he.net/downloads/mysql-3.23.html
>
>That site has the Windows binary for the MySQL database engine and
>monitor. Eric is actually looking for a Windows binary of the Python
>(with some C) module to interface to the database engine, which I don't
>think is at that site.
-- 
mail:   gerhard <at> bigfoot <dot> de
web:    http://highqualdev.com


From erno-news at erno.iki.fi  Tue Jan 23 04:58:16 2001
From: erno-news at erno.iki.fi (Erno Kuusela)
Date: 23 Jan 2001 11:58:16 +0200
Subject: Can I decompile PYC files?
References: <94j8j5$50e$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <kun1ci8u9z.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>

In article <94j8j5$50e$1 at nnrp1.deja.com>, noahspurrier at my-deja.com writes:

| A process just deleted my .py file. I still have the .pyc file.
| Can I recover anything? I'm desparate. It doesn't have to be perfect.

did you try a search engine?-) <URL:http://goebel-consult.de/decompyle/>.

  -- erno



From NoSpam at NoSpam.com  Fri Jan 19 12:34:12 2001
From: NoSpam at NoSpam.com (Tom)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 17:34:12 GMT
Subject: Debugging
References: <979896042.23819.1.nnrp-10.c3ad12d2@news.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: <oU_96.188775$59.50099959@news3.rdc1.on.home.com>

You will need to create your own debug version of Python.exe and
Python20.dll.  In your module's project settings, for "Executable for debug
session", specify the path to your python debug exe.

I think that is all.

Tom.


"Toby" <t.harris at robinsons.co.uk> wrote in message
news:979896042.23819.1.nnrp-10.c3ad12d2 at news.demon.co.uk...
> Is it possible to debug an Python 2.0 extension (a DLL) written in MSVC++
> 6.0 ? If so how ? I presume I would need a debug version of Python as
> well...
>
> TIA Toby
>
>




From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Thu Jan 11 11:49:40 2001
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 16:49:40 +0000
Subject: BUG Python 2.0 FreeBSD compile problem
References: <HvMQc3AYabX6Ewau@jessikat.demon.co.uk>
 <muk76.5496$Qb7.762946@newsb.telia.net>
Message-ID: <FqjAtUAkQeX6EwLy@jessikat.demon.co.uk>

In article <muk76.5496$Qb7.762946 at newsb.telia.net>, Fredrik Lundh
<fredrik at effbot.org> writes
>Robin Becker wrote:
>> When building Python 2.0 with FreeBSD xxx.com 2.2.7-STABLE FreeBSD 
>2.2.7-STABLE
>> I get undefined references to _TELL64 at load time unless I change line 61 of
>> Objects/fileobject.c from
>>
>> #elif defined(__NetBSD__) || defined(__OpenBSD__)
>>
>> to
>>
>> #elif defined(__NetBSD__) || defined(__OpenBSD__) || defined(__FreeBSD__)
>
>http://sourceforge.net/bugs/?func=detailbug&bug_id=128119&group_id=5470
>
>(still says "Resolution: None", but I'm pretty sure a fixed
>was checked into CVS a couple of days ago...  if you can
>verify that the CVS version builds cleanly, let us know!)
>
>Cheers /F
>
>
I can verify that that patch applied separately builds OK. I'm not
building the CVS version as we'll be using the result for production
eventually.
-- 
Robin Becker


From root at rainerdeyke.com  Wed Jan 31 14:49:26 2001
From: root at rainerdeyke.com (Rainer Deyke)
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 19:49:26 GMT
Subject: from-import on non-module objects?
References: <959jna$nfl$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <a%Zd6.140057$ge4.51360039@news2.rdc2.tx.home.com>

"Hamish Lawson" <hamish_lawson at yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:959jna$nfl$1 at nnrp1.deja.com...
>     class AClass:
>
>         def __init__(self, x, y):
>             self.x = x
>             self.y = y
>
>         def output(self):
>             from self import *
>             print x, y

This probably won't ever be added to Python for two reasons:

1. It is inconsistent.  In 'from A import *', 'A' is not drawn from the
current namespace, but from the external "namespace" of all modules that can
be imported from the current package.

2. It is ambiguous.  If there exists a module called 'self', how is the
above statement to behave?

Incidentally, while 'from A import *' in a function works, it does not
behave correctly as of version 2.0.  In particular, the following function
fails to behave as expected:

def f():
  global path
  from sys import *
  print path

The problem goes away if I either remove 'global path' or replace the
'import *' with 'import path'.  I'm guessing it took a really ugly hack to
get this to work at all, given how local variables are normally addressed,
and the hack is not entirely reliable.


--
Rainer Deyke (root at rainerdeyke.com)
Shareware computer games           -           http://rainerdeyke.com
"In ihren Reihen zu stehen heisst unter Feinden zu kaempfen" - Abigor




From hwhite at chiliad.com  Wed Jan  3 19:16:49 2001
From: hwhite at chiliad.com (Heather Lynn White)
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2001 19:16:49 -0500 (EST)
Subject: regular expressions: grabbing variables from multiple matches
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10101031903560.14979-100000@salmonfalls.lilybay.com>

Suppose I have a regular expression to grab all variations on a meta tag,
and I will want to extract from any matches the name and content values
for this tag.

I use the following re

MetaTag=re.compile(


r'''<\s*?(meta|META)\s*?=\s*?"(?P<name>.*?)"\s*?(content|CONTENT)\s*?=\s*?"(?P<content>.*?)"\s*?>'''

)

now suppose I have an html document and I want to iterate through all the
meta tags in that document. If I only catch one, I would say

matches=MetaTag.match(body)
if matches:
	flds=matches.groupdict()
	name=flds["name"]
	content=flds["content"]
	print name, content

but this does not work if I use instead findall, to get multiple matches,
because findall returns a list of matches rather than a list of match
objects, unlike all the other functions.  Is there a way to extract these
variables in the way I have done above, but with many matches?

-heather












From sholden at holdenweb.com  Wed Jan 31 19:45:19 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 19:45:19 -0500
Subject: mxDateTime for Python 2.0 for Win32 - binary PYD file
References: <qAAd6.8144$Oe.37720@tor-nn1.netcom.ca> <kEAd6.8145$Oe.37320@tor-nn1.netcom.ca>
Message-ID: <jo2e6.773$j4.36414@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com>

"Warren Postma" <embed at geocities.com> wrote in message
news:kEAd6.8145$Oe.37320 at tor-nn1.netcom.ca...
> Okay, I think I feel stupid now.
>
> Warren
>
Please feel free to borrow my head-thwacker. But don't keep it tool long, as
I'll undoubtedly need it myself the next time I get too smart for my own
good.

regards
 Steve




From sbrunning at bigfoot.com  Thu Jan 18 11:30:47 2001
From: sbrunning at bigfoot.com (Simon B.)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 16:30:47 GMT
Subject: Automatic Documentation Tools?
References: <mailman.979786073.2627.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9475no$c6i$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

In article <mailman.979786073.2627.python-list at python.org>,
  Terry Hancock <hancock at earthlink.net> wrote:
> Any suggestions?
>
> --
> Terry Hancock
> hancock at earthlink.net

Marc Lemberg's doc.py (from <http://www.lemburg.com/files/python/>) is
pretty nice if the modules and classes have good docstrings.

--
Simon Brunning
A woman drove me to drink and I didn't even have the decency to thank
her. - W.C. Fields


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From mal at lemburg.com  Fri Jan 26 06:22:50 2001
From: mal at lemburg.com (M.-A. Lemburg)
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 12:22:50 +0100
Subject: Unicode string output
References: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0101252329370.1185-100000@calcifer.valdyas.org>
Message-ID: <3A715E0A.3F704B18@lemburg.com>

Boudewijn Rempt wrote:
> 
> On Thu, 25 Jan 2001, M.-A. Lemburg wrote:
> >
> > Well, you can manage multi-user settings easily by providing
> > a special sitecustomize.py module, so I guess that's a non-issue.
> >
> 
> Perhaps - but it is often the application, not the user that
> knows about encodings. I can easily imagine my small Chinese
> editor to work in Big5 for someone from Taiwan, but in Unicode
> for me - an application-level default, and if we use the same
> computer, a user-level default.
> 
> > The problem with having a per application setting for the
> > default encoding is that this would cause code to be written which
> > may rely on one specific default encoding. It is much better
> > to write such assumption into the code itself than to rely on
> > default settings.
> >
> 
> But setting an application-level default _is_ putting the assumption
> in the code, instead of in the system. Now you get apps that count
> on the system default being us-ascii...

We chose US-ASCII after endless discussions on python-dev. ASCII
is compatible with most of the existing encodings out there,
so it can provide a common ground for automagical conversions
such as the ones happening behind the scenes in Python. 

We had also planned for automatically setting the default encoding
using the locale settings on the machine running the application
and choosing Latin-1 (the first 256 Unicode character points) as
default.
 
In the end, our BDFL chose ASCII as standard. The code for the
other two possibilities is still there though (see site.py and
locale.py for details).

What I meant with putting the logic into the application is that
it is usually better to make assumptions explicit in the code
you write, rather than making some assumption on the system
configuration (and the site*.py module should be considered
system settings).

I have always made a point for explicit conversions from Unicode
to an 8-bit string encoding. The reason is simple: relying on
magic to do the right is convenient but will fail badly if the
magic changes due to altered system configurations.

This is fairly easy to do in Python: just write a helper
which does the conversion and use for all Unicode<->string
conversions.

> > I agree though, that we will need to put some more work into
> > making streams and other interfaces more Unicode aware and to
> > simplify those interfaces. In theory you could e.g. redirect
> > stdin and stdout through codecs, but in practice this currently
> > doesn't work well together with "print" due to the complicated
> > machinery in the Python interpreter.
> >
> 
> One other example is PyQt - the conversion between QString (Unicode
> in itself) and Python strings goes via the default codec, meaning
> us-ascii for most installations. Again, technical details seem
> to make it impossible or at least difficult to alter that, but setting
> an application level default makes it easy to work with.

This is a problem of PyQt not the Python Unicode implementation.
Extensions which apply these conversions can easily choose 
different conversions at their liking. I have made the Unicode
API in Python very flexible in this direction for exactly this
reason.

Please write to the PyQt maintainers about this problem.

> > The same goes for making the Python standard lib more Unicode
> > aware. There's still a lot to do ... we could need some sponsors :)
> >
> 
> I'd help if I could, but currently I'm a bit overworked as it is,
> with completing Kura, writing something publicable on Jython, and
> of course, coding Java for a living. On the whole, though, I'm pretty
> content with the Python Unicode support - and I've never had a
> problem with my sitecustomize.py file and the saved copy of
> setdefaultencoding. But then, I don't switch encodings during the
> lifetime of the application.

... and that's what we had in mind when making the API available
in site.py only. 

Perhaps we should think about easing the restriction a bit
to make the setting a one-shot operation: you could then call
sys.setdefaultencoding() at most once in any run of a Python
application and then only before using Unicode in the application.

-- 
Marc-Andre Lemburg
______________________________________________________________________
Company:                                        http://www.egenix.com/
Consulting:                                    http://www.lemburg.com/
Python Pages:                           http://www.lemburg.com/python/



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Tue Jan  9 08:27:44 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 14:27:44 +0100
Subject: new enum idiom
References: <G6qzLy.6Fo@world.std.com> <938jmh$919$1@animus.fel.iae.nl> <3A58B9C0.9F2A5CC0@collins.rockwell.com> <93an8v02d2n@news1.newsguy.com> <93dde1$8d2$1@animus.fel.iae.nl>
Message-ID: <93f3nb023mv@news1.newsguy.com>

"Carel Fellinger" <cfelling at iae.nl> wrote in message
news:93dde1$8d2$1 at animus.fel.iae.nl...
    [snip]
> > This assumes a non-string argument (typically an integer, but that's
> > not checked here) is meant to set the value to be named by the
> > string-argument immediately *following* it -- a substantial
> > simplification.  So substantial, that if one
> ...
> > Needing to explicitly set values in an enum is rare enough, that it
> > would seem fully acceptable to me to place the explicit values right
> > _before_ their names in those rare cases, using the much-simpler
> > code above.  Viva simplicity...!-)
>
> Simplicity of implementation, yes.  But is this what one would expect?

Personally, I would expect _nothing in particular_ when reading
something like

    xx = enum('foo', 'bar', 32, 'fee', 'fie', 45, 'flip', 'flop')

i.e., just a list of name-like strings occasionally mixed with
values that clearly aren't names.


> I think all the languages I know that provide an enumaration method
> that allows for changing the count midway spell it the other way
> around, first the name then the value.

With some extra syntax, such as equal-signs, or arrowlike squigglies
pointing in either explicit direction, expectations would surely firm
up.  E.g., if I read:

    xx = enum('foo', 'bar', 32, '<-fee', 'fie', 45, '<-flip', 'flop')

I would guess the arrows are suggesting 32 is the value of 'fee' and
45 the value of 'flip, while if I read:

    xx = enum('foo', 'bar->', 32, 'fee', 'fie->', 45, 'flip', 'flop')

then the different arrows would suggest 32 as the value of 'bar' and
45 as that of 'fie'.


Absent such extra syntax clues, though, I don't see expectations
being meaningful either way.  What language lets you define enums
with _some_ values out-of-order by just letting you list names
and non-name values with no further demarcation?


Python's mantra "when in doubt, avoid the temptation to guess" would
then *strongly* urge one to drop this complication altogether.


> of it, especially since its use is so rare.  Arguely an even better
> approach would be to have such new counting points be spelled as
> tuples; a little more eye-catching and simplifying the code even
> further:)

That's one possibility.  Syntax such as "bar=32" (for names in the
enumlist whose value is explicitly defined) being another alternative,
still better than 'just the list' (and a split on that form is
enough to make it into the name/value pair, so it would be easy
enough to accept either).


Alex





From dbrueck at edgix.com  Fri Jan 12 15:11:36 2001
From: dbrueck at edgix.com (Dave Brueck)
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 13:11:36 -0700
Subject: "Full" object and class pickling?
In-Reply-To: <979329680.407225@sj-nntpcache-3>
Message-ID: <00aa01c07cd3$de485580$450514ac@PRODUT2KDAVE>

The marshal module can do code. This may help a little, it's not class defs
but functions:

>>> def foo(a,b,c):
... 	print a + b + c
...
>>> foo(10,11,12)
33
>>> import marshal
>>> q = marshal.dumps(foo.func_code)
>>> def bar():
... 	pass
...
>>> bar.func_code = marshal.loads(q)
>>> bar(10,11,12)
33

Also, FWIW, it may be easier to have the remote side request the .py file
for an unknown class (ie - you send it an object it doesn't recognize, so it
comes back and asks for that module). Then you locally use imp module to
locate and read the module's .py, zlib to compress it, and then send it out
over the socket. But this might not be an option in your case...

-Dave
> -----Original Message-----
> From: python-list-admin at python.org
> [mailto:python-list-admin at python.org]On Behalf Of Stuart Stanley
> Sent: Friday, January 12, 2001 12:59 PM
> To: python-list at python.org
> Subject: "Full" object and class pickling?
>
>
>
> I am doing some experimenting with mobile objects.  I.E., python
> objects that physically migrate from process to process via some
> mechanism.  I had thought (c)pickle was my ticket, but pickle does
> not bring the _code_ with.  Does anyone know a mechanism to:
>
>   1) "pickle" the _complete_ object, including its byte-code?
>   2) "pickle" a class so I can create instances from it without using
>       imports?  I.E., I want to migrate the classes used in
> return values
>       from the above (#1) transported objects and use them to
> create objects
>       that can do things like compare against the return
> values from the
>       migratory objects...
>
> For a number of reasons I need to avoid doing imports in the
> "non-home"
> processes...
>
> Clues? Hints?  Complete packages that does all this already? ;)
>
> Thank you -- stuart
>
>
> --
>  "Computer Science is no more about computers than | Stuart Stanley
>  astronomy is about telescopes." - E. W. Dijkstra  | stuarts at cisco.com
>                                                    | Cisco
> Systems, inc
>                                                    | St Paul, MN
>                                                    | 612.578.6412
> --
> http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list




From xiaoyan at netease.com  Tue Jan  9 22:52:39 2001
From: xiaoyan at netease.com (Pan)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 11:52:39 +0800
Subject: aluminium profile made in China
Message-ID: <20010110034746.9B4D71C2F5A79@mx1.netease.com>

Dear Sir or Madam,
    We are taking the liberty to e-mail this message. If you find it to be
interesting, please feel free to contact us for further information.
Otherwise please let us know.Thanks
   Guangdong Jianmei Aluminum Shapes Factory is a professional manufacturer onaluminum 
alloy shapes, equipped with a complete set of advanced machinery
for Aluminum alloy shapes manufacturing such as SMHD billet castings, nine
shapes extrusion and two anodizing production lines, and possess two sets of
New Spout Powder Product Line imported from overseas.  The total capacity
comes to 38000 tons per year.
   The main business line: 30 series of profiles for glassy certain wall
(including hidden frame, semi-hidden frame, framed), sliding windows, swing
door casement windows etc. Then, it can design and produce special kinds of
profiles according to the order.

   Looking forward to hearing from you soon.

  Thank and Best regards,
 
  Jian Mei

Guangdong Jianmei Aluminum Shapes Factory

E-mail: nhjianmei at china.com
fax:0086-757-6336141
Contact Person: Jian Mei













From ullrich at math.okstate.edu  Fri Jan 12 13:30:15 2001
From: ullrich at math.okstate.edu (David C. Ullrich)
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 18:30:15 GMT
Subject: is Python fully object oriented ?
References: <mailman.979292174.19166.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <93nifo$qa7$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

In article <mailman.979292174.19166.python-list at python.org>,
  =?iso-8859-1?Q?Max_M=F8ller_Rasmussen?= <maxm at normik.dk> wrote:
> From: Simon Brunning [mailto:SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk]
>
> >> I don't know if this helps, but it's perfectly legal to use a name
other
> >> than "self" in Python, e.g.,
> >>
> >> class SpamChunk:
> >>   def __init__(s):
> >>     s.color = 'green'
> >>
> >It's also legal never to wash, but you won't make many friends that
way,
> >either.
>
> It's the only thing about Python that bothers me endlessly, having to
> explicitly pass "self".
>
> In javascript ie. "this" is implicit and that is so much simpler.
>
> I know it breaks the rule of "Explicit is better than implicit" but
this
> ought to to be an exception as it is so commonly used. (And I so
commonly
> make the mistake of forgetting it ;-) )
>
> Is there a REALLY good reason that it has to be explicitly declared ?

Makes a lot of things easier. Like it makes it easy to invoke
a method of a class on something other than an instance of that
class, which is actually a perfectly standard idiom around here:

class A:
  def __init__(self):
    pass

class B(A):
  def __init__(self):
    A.__init__(self)

A person could invent syntax to do exactly that one thing
with an implicit self, maybe with an "inherited" keyword
as in the one language I know with an implicit self (Object
Pascal). How would a person do

class C(A, B):
  def __init__(self):
    A.__init__(self)
    B.__init__(self)

with an implicit self?

DU

> Regards Max M
>
>

--
Oh, dejanews lets you add a sig - that's useful...


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From sandj.williams at gte.net  Mon Jan 15 12:26:22 2001
From: sandj.williams at gte.net (Steve Williams)
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 17:26:22 GMT
Subject: why no "do : until"?
References: <mailman.979188492.12187.python-list@python.org> <90278A4rcamesz@127.0.0.1> <mailman.979261813.31482.python-list@python.org> <t5su71caku5gd0@corp.supernews.com> <3A5F264D.4D7C024A@gte.net> <t61aqqat4fssc2@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <3A633415.47D71944@gte.net>

Andrew Henshaw wrote:

> Steve,
>
> Forgive me for not knowing your stance on some of the earlier points
> discussed, but I was responding to Rober Amesz' do - until proposal.  Would
> not your statements also apply to his use of
>     until condition
> instead of
>     if condition: break
> ?
> I suppose that you could limit each 'do:' loop to one 'until' to avoid the
> multiple breaks problem.  Implicit in that proposal would be the assumption
> that 'if condition: break' would not be allowed in a 'do:' loop.  I don't
> think that suggestion would fly very well.
>
> Given Python's current structure, I still believe that the best compromise
> is the allowance of
>     do:
> as a synonym for
>     while 1:
>
> and leave it at that.
>

[snip]

Andrew

I haven't followed the thread very well.  Your mention of 'g*t*' triggered my
response.  I feel both 'g*t*' and 'break' disrupt the correspondence between
program listing and program flow.

I confess I use 'break' when I have found the result of a serial scan.  "Yes, My
name is Steve W. and I am a 'break' user."  ('Exit do' and 'Exit for' in VB, so
I have much to be ashamed of).

But, I'm not a C programmer and 'while 1' doesn't speak to me in a language I
can appreciate.

I had the hardest time understanding the ISO on/off switch codes of 1/0.  Was
this high-level logic or low-level logic?  Using -1 as a truth value is beyond
my comprehension--since -1 is less than 1, it must be false. . ..

In any case, I want to see a real conditional as part of the 'while'.  That's
just the way I'm put together.  And I don't want the conditional used as some
kind of tatty scope delimiter fifty lines later.  If you need a scope delimiter,
use 'end-while'.

If I have a 'while x <> 0:' statement it tells me something.  It says "this is a
loop and this is how it's terminated".  I can then search for the variable x and
see who sets it or how it's referenced in the loop.  If I have to prime the
value of x before the loop, that's OK with me.  Actually, I like to initialize
all my variables.  I'm kind of a control freak that way.

Conversely, when I see 'While 1', all I know is "this is a loop".  I'm now on
notice to dig deeper and find out how the loop terminates and hope I get it
right.

I don't have an opinion on the 'loop and a half construct'.  I usually take it
as a warning I've not thought out my design thoroughly enough.  Again, just my
prejudice.

When I started learning Python, I wrote some prime number seive finger exercises
using nested 'breaks'.  I quickly learned I couldn't find a break target unless
the entire loop was displayed in one screen fill.  My bifocals just couldn't
keep track of breaks and indents at the same time across screen fills.

These are my prejudices and follies.  I really don't have much to contribute to
the discussion.  Python is a great language as it stands.  The old Python hands
dearly love 'While 1' and more power to 'em, say I.






From max at alcyone.com  Mon Jan 29 11:39:10 2001
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 08:39:10 -0800
Subject: Hack request: rational numbers
References: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0101251759070.28148-100000@kev.ioc.ee> <951h34$tch$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <3A745D6C.2EEA931@home.nl>
Message-ID: <3A759CAE.5D3EE1BA@alcyone.com>

Jaap Spies wrote:

> My late professor Freudenthal said: "A good
> mathematician is independent of notation"

Wouldn't be Hans Freudenthal, author of _Lincos_, by any chance, would
it?

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, US / 37 20 N 121 53 W / ICQ16063900 / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ I sidestep the either
\__/ or choices of logic and choose both. | Ken Feit
    Official Buh rules / http://www.alcyone.com/max/projects/cards/buh/
 The official rules to the betting card game, Buh.


From mfletch at tpresence.com  Thu Jan 11 00:22:33 2001
From: mfletch at tpresence.com (Mike Fletcher)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 00:22:33 -0500
Subject: default arguments newbie question
Message-ID: <CC59868A0A76D311B1F50090277B321C1F379F@VRTMAIL>

Don't know that I'd call this pathological, merely obscure.  On the other
hand, there are people who have decided every piece of code I write is
pathological, so you may be ultimately correct in your classification :o) .

There are significant reasons for creating such objects (how do you model an
object that's supposed to be None-like, but requires some extra feature that
None doesn't provide).  Without type-subclassing, such approaches are
occasionally employed.  When they are employed, the people using such
systems find that x is None tests all have to be changed to x == None to
allow the new objects to work.  Once we get rid of the type-class split
we'll have to deal with this all over again (Does None get special "is"
testing so that all sub-class instances are considered equal?  then how do
we test the difference between them?)

That is, they two statements have semantic inequality.  One tests the
address and tests pointer equality, the other specifies that two objects
have the same "value"...

    PyObject * x,y;
    (x == y) != (&x == &y);

Where the actual test for value is some byzantine series of checks for slots
and calls and reverse calls and such that allow an object to define whatever
testing it likes.

My observation was that the original poster wouldn't likely care, not that
no-one should care.  We all love the little folds and twists of Python, it's
what makes it such a lovable, squeezable creature...
:)

Enjoy,
Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: Erik Max Francis
To: python-list at python.org
Sent: 1/10/2001 11:33 PM
Subject: Re: default arguments newbie question

Mike Fletcher wrote:
<obscure and obviously misleading discussion by some wacko, you're better
off never reading it, trust us>

Well, sure, you can come up with pathological cases, but as you say, it
isn't terribly important as a serious technical objection.

...



From nickatvideosystemdotcodotuk  Fri Jan 12 12:40:26 2001
From: nickatvideosystemdotcodotuk (Nick Trout)
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 17:40:26 -0000
Subject: is Python fully object oriented ?
References: <mailman.979292174.19166.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3a5f41b2@news.xtml.co.uk>

> I know it breaks the rule of "Explicit is better than implicit" but this
> ought to to be an exception as it is so commonly used. (And I so commonly
> make the mistake of forgetting it ;-) )
>
> Is there a REALLY good reason that it has to be explicitly declared ?

New users constantly raise questions on this forum about Pythons language
features, e.g. "self" & colon at end of if and while etc. The point is, they
are just idiosyncrasies of the language. The FAQ points out that Guido used
self as it was path of least resistance when he added classes. It also has
the advantage of making the code less ambiguous. If "self", or any of these
features, bugs someone enough then there are plenty of other languages out
there (e.g. Ruby, Perl etc), so try another one (I hope you won't and this
is not a flame!). But, you have to ask yourself, why is the Python user base
growing so quickly? These are minor things! I personally thought it was a
pain when I started Python but now I think its an advantage. I am an
advocate of coding standards and I believe that this is a useful one.

Cheers,
Nick







From jasonic at nomadicsltd.com  Mon Jan 29 16:31:36 2001
From: jasonic at nomadicsltd.com (Jason Cunliffe)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 16:31:36 -0500
Subject: Books
References: <3a757ac1$1@netnews.web.de> <hhfd6.6061$Uo2.20161@newsfeed.slurp.net> <3a757f33$1@netnews.web.de> <mailman.980781035.27107.python-list@python.org> <3a758a80@netnews.web.de>
Message-ID: <t7bo2lkbt32313@corp.supernews.com>

Volker Jahns <volker.jahns at web.de> wrote in message
news:3a758a80 at netnews.web.de...

> What is the benefit using pyhton instead of PHP or JAVA (serversided)? It
makes
> we wonder, that the python.org uses php for dynamic web pages. So am I on
the
> wrong way using python for  dynamic web pages with database access (mysql,
> postgress,...)?

Want to do some serious web programmng with Python? ...check out Zope!
http://www.zope.org

But you are right http://www.python.org is waaay overdue for an overhaul.

Due to a lot business reshuffling last year of core Python team, the site
did not get the attention it deserved, and all key people were busy
developing Python 2.x code itself.

I imagine before long www.python.org swill be re-implemented with Zope, and
become a site to marvel at.

...stay tuned :-)

>>>Jason
___________________________________________________________
Jason CUNLIFFE = NOMADICS['Interactive Art and Technology']




From MarkH at ActiveState.com  Wed Jan 24 23:32:13 2001
From: MarkH at ActiveState.com (Mark Hammond)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 04:32:13 GMT
Subject: beep again
References: <mailman.980372368.20213.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <94oa8d$ibu$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

In article <mailman.980372368.20213.python-list at python.org>,
  "Tim Peters" <tim.one at home.com> wrote:

> Don't have more time for this now.  Win98SE.  I'm pretty
> sure the "ding" I hear is the registered Windows
> "Default Sound" (ding.wav, on my box) ...
> yup!  If I change the Default Sound setting while
> test_winsound is running, test_winsound starts playing
> the new .wav file instead.

We learn something new every day :-)

I just had a look at the MS documentation for this function, and it
states at the bottom:
"""
Remarks
Windows 95: The Beep function ignores the dwFreq and dwDuration
parameters. On computers with a sound card, the function plays the
default sound event. On computers without a sound card, the function
plays the standard system beep.
"""

Not much we can do about it that I can see, except possibly add a note
to the docstring.

Mark.


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From joejava at dragonat.net  Fri Jan  5 00:47:32 2001
From: joejava at dragonat.net (Joel Ricker)
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 00:47:32 -0500
Subject: Migrating to perl?
References: <3Fa56.4580$of7.216286@news1.atl> <933fa1$j2i$1@newshost.accu.uu.nl>
Message-ID: <ggd56.4652$of7.222552@news1.atl>

Martijn Faassen wrote in message <933fa1$j2i$1 at newshost.accu.uu.nl>...

[*snip*]

>Joel Ricker <joejava at dragonat.net> wrote:
>> What about OOP?  Is it it a full OO language?
>
>Yes, Python does OOP just fine, and is a full dynamically typed OOP
language.
>If you are familiar with languages like C++ or Java you're in for a
>hopefully pleasant surprise; there is much less programmer overhead to
>create and use classes than there is in those languages, due to the
>simpler syntax, and dynamic typing instead of static typing.
>
>> Is it easier than to use than
>> perl?  Perl OO just feels like it has been cludged together.
>
>From my limited experience with Perl, definitely yes. I've been told Perl's
>OO model is actually inspired by Python's, but I didn't spend enough of
time
>with Perl's OO features to know much about that.


>From your examples, Pythons class model is much cleaner.  Also if I
understand your example, variables internal to the object are kept
internal -- they can't be accessed without a proper method.  With perl
anything goes.  There are some techniques to prevent this but it isn't
definite.  Its actually this very topic that made me throw my new OO book
across the room and subscribed to this newsgroup :)

>In python this is how you make a class:


[*snip -- OO example*]


I've mentioned before that I'm real new to OO.  How should I approach it in
Python?  Has anyone learned OO just from Python?  Or should I study OO
theory else where and then apply it to Python?  I know this is bordering on
the question of how do I do OO but I really know very little about it...
enough to know that I can benefit from it and basic ideas.  I understand the
idea of a class and building objects from it but anything beyond that is
still really new to me.  Any suggestions?

>The Python community's reputation is that it's friendlier than the Perl
>community, the flame war about variable initialization in the do..until
>thread notwithstanding. :)


I heard something about curley braces as well.  No {} for blocks?  Thats
going to take some getting used to :)

>I've seen people beinn pleasantly surprised by the quality of answers
they've
>received in this newsgroup, so you may like it.


I know I have been.  Nothing like a friendly newsgroup to convince me to
switch -- at least take a break from perl for awhile to see how the other
side lives.

Thanks
Joel





From barry at digicool.com  Fri Jan 19 21:00:27 2001
From: barry at digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 21:00:27 -0500
Subject: Tabbing/Spaces
References: <B68E060D.901B%bobhicks@adelphia.net>
	<mtzogn9rpx.fsf@astron.berkeley.edu>
Message-ID: <14952.61755.305422.224347@anthem.wooz.org>

>>>>> "JH" == Johann Hibschman <johann at physics.berkeley.edu> writes:

    JH> A mixture of tabs and spaces is most common, I'm afraid, since
    JH> that's what emacs defaults to doing.

Not for python-mode.  The default for new Python files is 4-space
indentation levels and no tabs.  Python-mode will adapt somewhat to
the conventions already existing in the file though.

See the variable py-smart-indentation for all the gory details.

-Barry



From s2mdalle at titan.vcu.edu  Sat Jan  6 14:22:27 2001
From: s2mdalle at titan.vcu.edu (David Allen)
Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2001 19:22:27 GMT
Subject: Speed of Python vs. Perl
References: <t5eojolijv1e58@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <TfK56.2727$bR3.738903@typhoon2.ba-dsg.net>

In article <t5eojolijv1e58 at corp.supernews.com>, "AndroidMonkey"
<androidmonkey[REMOVETHIS]@hotmail.com> wrote:

> In the last Maximum Linux magazine, there was an article about using
> Perl for a car MP3 player.  It got me wondering - What's the speed of
> Python like compared to Perl? I've never used Perl before, so I hope
> someone could answer my question here. Thanks  -vm

>From what I've seen and heard, if you must have an
answer, it's probably that perl may have a slight
edge.  But realistically, the question is loaded,
since python and perl don't often do things in the
same way.

-- 
David Allen
http://opop.nols.com/
----------------------------------------
People are like onions -- you cut them up, and they make you cry.


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Tue Jan 23 07:58:30 2001
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (fredrik at pythonware.com)
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 12:58:30 GMT
Subject: urllib.urlretrieve("http://free.bsdshell.net/")
References: <mailman.980245885.26132.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <94jv5j$m4c$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

Oleg Broytmann wrote:
> Strange problem with urllib: urlretrieve("http://free.bsdshell.net/")
> always reports "Connection refused".

It seems to work from here, with both 1.5.2 and 2.0:

>>> import urllib
>>> urllib.urlretrieve("http://free.bsdshell.net")
('/usr/tmp/@30661.1', <mimetools.Message instance at 80eacf0>)
>>> urllib.urlretrieve("http://free.bsdshell.net/")
('/usr/tmp/@30661.2', <mimetools.Message instance at 80fb438>)

etc.

Cheers /F


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From moshez at zadka.site.co.il  Thu Jan 25 13:23:07 2001
From: moshez at zadka.site.co.il (Moshe Zadka)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 20:23:07 +0200 (IST)
Subject: what GUI, please advise
In-Reply-To: <3A6F18F2.536F27FE@crepido.com>
References: <3A6F18F2.536F27FE@crepido.com>, <3A6F0B27.A88D11C9@crepido.com> <756399CF731B46D9.57530C0D0C9C2171.472E737DF76189F7@lp.airnews.net>
Message-ID: <20010125182307.4A47BA840@darjeeling.zadka.site.co.il>

On Wed, 24 Jan 2001, Marco =?iso-8859-1?Q?Seiri=F6?= <marco at crepido.com> wrote:
> Well, something like this...
> 
> - I'm going to run mostly on Unix, although it would be nice
> to be able to recycle my GUI knowledge when forced to
> write for Windows. Mac, not very important...
> 
> - A GUI builder is a very big advantage. allmost a must.
> 
> - I like there to be all the widgets one would expect from
> the Windows world.
> 
> - Easy of use for the programmer.

Check out wxPython and Tkinter. I think Boa-Constructor is a gui
builder for wxWindows, but you might have more trouble building
it on exotic platforms.
-- 
Moshe Zadka <sig at zadka.site.co.il>
This is a signature anti-virus. 
Please stop the spread of signature viruses!
Fingerprint: 4BD1 7705 EEC0 260A 7F21  4817 C7FC A636 46D0 1BD6



From dsh8290 at rit.edu  Sun Jan  7 10:57:07 2001
From: dsh8290 at rit.edu (D-Man)
Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2001 10:57:07 -0500
Subject: Thank you (was Re: Should I learn Python or Java?)
In-Reply-To: <G2V56.5826$y9.3184141@typhoon.we.rr.com>; from charlottwilliams@mediaone.net on Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 07:39:18AM +0000
References: <HEO56.5504$y9.2881293@typhoon.we.rr.com> <G2V56.5826$y9.3184141@typhoon.we.rr.com>
Message-ID: <20010107105707.A30569@rit.edu>

Looks like I'm a bit late with this thread, but I'll add my $0.02
anyways.

I am currently employed to do Java development.  (I'm a co-op, still
in college so if anyone knows of a company that does python
development, let me know)  I much prefer python to java.  Java retains
much of the compile-time headaches that C/C++ have (largely related to
static type-checking).  Also, Java does some weird things with respect
to objects vs. built-in types and not having generics.  One of the
results is that you *can't* put an 'int' in a list/vector/etc.

Python, being very dynamic, is really easy to do anything you want.
It's syntax is also much cleaner and simpler.

As for portability, Python is much more portable than Java is.  It is
also much older (and stabler, and faster, etc) than Java so I don't
think it will displace Java soon (unless someone can convice a big
name company to spend lots of money promoting it ;-)).

Enjoy your python experience,
-D

On Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 07:39:18AM +0000, Charlotte Williams wrote:
| Thank you, everyone, for all your help.  If indeed Python is everything you
| say it is, it would seem a worth while investment in time to learn.  I'll
| try coding some in Python and see how the language "feels."
| 
| David Williams
| 
| 
| -- 
| http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list



From claird at starbase.neosoft.com  Fri Jan  5 10:53:01 2001
From: claird at starbase.neosoft.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: 5 Jan 2001 09:53:01 -0600
Subject: Perl from Python (was: Migrating to perl?)
References: <3Fa56.4580$of7.216286@news1.atl> <mailman.978670867.31055.python-list@python.org> <V%c56.4648$of7.221797@news1.atl> <mailman.978707587.25701.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <50E9DE7387AD7196.0DFB8167FB3213E6.37781A14F6A184F7@lp.airnews.net>

In article <mailman.978707587.25701.python-list at python.org>,
Skip Montanaro  <skip at mojam.com> wrote:
			.
			.
			.
>Probably not a solution for me.  On the other hand, I believe the folks at
>Digital Creations were working on a scheme to allow so-called external
>methods written in Perl to be executed within their Zope web application
>system.  I've no idea what the status of that is.
"The 'pyperl' distribution contains the general
stuff for embedding perl in python."  Last updated
in November.  See
<URL: http://www.ActiveState.com/download/Zope-Perl/ >
for details.
			.
			.
			.
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at NeoSoft.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://starbase.neosoft.com/~claird/home.html


From paul at fxtech.com  Sat Jan 27 14:16:22 2001
From: paul at fxtech.com (Paul Miller)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 13:16:22 -0600
Subject: Embedded Python interpreter examples?
Message-ID: <3A731E86.9FB8930D@fxtech.com>

I'd like some examples of using an embedded Python interpreter to
execute scripts as an extension mechanism for C/C++ apps. For example, I
may have a list of C++ objects that have their behavior defined by
Python scripts. Since each object may have some data that is part of the
script, do I need to run an interpreter instance per object, so that
global variables (for example) used by the script will be available from
run to run?

--
Paul Miller - stele at fxtech.com


From amyk at foretec.com  Thu Jan 11 14:20:05 2001
From: amyk at foretec.com (Amy Katherine)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 14:20:05 -0500
Subject: ***Python 9 Conference New Updates and Developments***
Message-ID: <4.2.2.20010109115959.00ae5cf0@colossus.foretec.com>

Greetings!

Below are some important updates on Python 9 events and activities.

Information on the refereed papers and posters is now available at 
http://www.python9.org/p9-refereedpapers1.html.  Six refereed papers have 
been nominated for the Best Paper Award.  Attendees will vote for the Best 
Paper, and the award will be presented at the closing plenary session on 
March 7.

Information on the Python Applications Track is now available at 
http://www.python9.org/p9-applications1.html.  ActiveState, the PythonLabs 
development team at Digital Creations, and Secret Labs AB (PythonWare) will 
all host sessions featuring their latest innovations based on Python.  The 
track will also include a Lightning Talks session.  Proposals for Lightning 
Talks are now being accepted!  If you wish to participate in this session, 
please send a message to lightning-talks at python9.org.

Information on the Zope Track is now available at 
http://www.python9.org/p9-zope1.html.  Digital Creations' Zope, written in 
Python, is the leading Open Source application server. Attendees of this 
track will learn Zope basics and advanced usage and hear about new 
developments in the Zope world.
______________________________________

*****Reminders*****

Early Bird Registration closes on February 2, 2001.  To register, please go 
to http://www.python9.org/p9-reginfo.html.

Sleeping rooms at the Hilton Long Beach are going fast!  Please go to 
www.python9.org/p9-hotelinfo.html for information on reserving a sleeping room.

Detailed information on all conference events and activities can be found 
at www.python9.org (updated frequently!).
______________________________________

Platinum Sponsor: ActiveState (www.ActiveState.com)
Gold Sponsor: Digital Creations (www.digicool.com)
Silver Sponsor: O'Reilly & Associates (www.oreilly.com)





From doc at sympatico.ca  Tue Jan  2 10:49:46 2001
From: doc at sympatico.ca (DOC)
Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2001 15:49:46 GMT
Subject: C extension help needed
Message-ID: <3A51F8F6.8DA5AE23@sympatico.ca>

I have been playing with the "simple example" from here:
http://www.python.org/doc/2.0b1/ext/simpleExample.html

When I compile the file with gcc I get a couple of
error messages at link time:

/usr/tmp/ccudMfF8.o(.text+0x14): undefined reference to
'PyArg_ParseTuple'
/usr/tmp/ccudMfF8.o(.text+0x40): undefined reference to
'Py_BuildValue'

I can trace these back via Python.h to modsupport.h where
they are defined 
as external. Then I loose the trail.

Are these in a file that should be explicitly linked in?

As far as I know, my $PATH is ok but I have been having some
problems getting header files in. I need to run gcc with
-I /usr/include/python1.5

Thanks for any help.

DOC


From tmhazel at mediaone.net  Sun Jan 14 20:14:15 2001
From: tmhazel at mediaone.net (Thomas Hazel)
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 01:14:15 GMT
Subject: [ANNOUNCE] txObject ATK 1.3 for Python
Message-ID: <H9s86.64165$1t.2992865@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>

Python Folks,

I have been a long user & lover of Python since late 1992. Over the years I
have created a toolkit for developing platform-independent C++ software. I
have also created some useful Python interfaces to these tools (Timers, IO
notification & processing, Threads/Events/Lcoks (home grown & native), and
TCP Server etc..).

The end of this email has few Python test programs demonstrating some of the
Python Modules and tweak your interest.

Take a look at http://txobject.sourceforge.net

See READMEs in tar balls to build txObject ATK 1.3 and the txPyObject ATK
1.3 Python Modules.

Enjoy and Happy Python Programming

Tom

############################################################################
###
##
## Threads, Events, Locks
##
############################################################################
###

import txLock  # locks are not used in this test, but feel free to use them
import txEvent
import txThread

EXIT_FLAG = 0
EXIT_EVENT = txEvent.txEvent("EXIT")

def func(*args):
    print 'args from func call : ', args

    while not EXIT_FLAG:
        print 'looping'
        txThread.yield(EXIT_EVENT, 1000)

    return

print 'Starting thread test'
txThread.start(func, ("abc", 123))

txThread.yield(10000) # wait ten seconds

EXIT_FLAG = 1

txEvent.trigger(EXIT_EVENT)

############################################################################
###
##
## Timers
##
############################################################################
###

import txTimer
import txEvent
import txThread
import txExtendedTimer # this is not used here, but feel free to use it

COUNT = 0

EXIT_EVENT = txEvent.txEvent("EXIT")

def callback (*args):
    global COUNT
    print 'timer fired : ', args

    if COUNT < 10:
        COUNT = COUNT + 1
        return txTimer.CONTINUE
    else:
        txEvent.trigger(EXIT_EVENT)

    return txTimer.STOP

timer = txTimer.txTimer(callback, ("abc", 123), 1000) # one second timer

txThread.yield(EXIT_EVENT)

############################################################################
###
##
## IO notification
##
############################################################################
###

import sys
import txSync
import txEvent
import txThread

COUNT = 0

EXIT_EVENT = txEvent.txEvent("EXIT")

def callback (*args):
    global COUNT

    read = raw_input("") # get data so to reset stdin fd state

    print 'io fired : ', args, read

    if COUNT < 10:
        COUNT = COUNT + 1
    else:
        txEvent.trigger(EXIT_EVENT)

    return

id = txSync.registerIO(callback,("abc",
123),sys.stdin.fileno(),txSync.IORead)

print '\nEntire something in the console window and then press turn...
repeat'

txThread.yield(EXIT_EVENT)

############################################################################
###
##
## TCP Server
##
############################################################################
###

import sys
import signal
import txEvent
import txThread
import txTCPServer

if len(sys.argv) != 5:
    print 'usage : local_machine local_port remote_machine remote_port'
    sys.exit(1)

local_machine = sys.argv[1]
local_port = eval(sys.argv[2])
remote_machine = sys.argv[3]
remote_port = eval(sys.argv[4])

EXIT_FLAG = 0
EXIT_EVENT = txEvent.txEvent("EXIT")

TCP_SERVER = txTCPServer.txTCPServer((local_machine, local_port))

def shutdown(*args):
    global EXIT_FLAG
    global EXIT_EVENT

    print 'Control-C'

    EXIT_FLAG = 1
    txEvent.trigger(EXIT_EVENT)
    return

def recvFrom(*args):
    while not EXIT_FLAG:
        messages = txTCPServer.recvFrom(TCP_SERVER) # get as many as
possible

        # num_of_mgs = 3 # block until 3 msgs have been received
        # messages = txTCPServer.recvFrom(TCP_SERVER, num_of_msgs)

        print 'Messages : ', messages
    return


def contactEstablish(*args):
    global EXIT_FLAG
    global EXIT_EVENT

    remote_machine, remote_port = args[0]

    print 'PEER UP : ', remote_machine, remote_port

    for i in range(1, 100):
        #
        # also see TCP SERVER multicast & broadcast
        #

        txTCPServer.sendTo( \
            TCP_SERVER, 'HELLO from ' + `local_port`, \
            (remote_machine, remote_port))

        txThread.yield(1000)

    EXIT_FLAG = 1
    txEvent.trigger(EXIT_EVENT)
    return

def contactLost(*args):
    global EXIT_FLAG
    global EXIT_EVENT

    remote_machine, remote_port = args[0]

    print 'PEER DOWN : ', remote_machine, remote_port
    return

signal.signal(signal.SIGINT, shutdown)
signal.signal(signal.SIGTERM, shutdown)

txTCPServer.registerContactEstablished(TCP_SERVER, contactEstablish)
txTCPServer.registerContactLost(TCP_SERVER, contactLost)

txThread.start(recvFrom) # start func on a thread to receive messages

txTCPServer.contact(TCP_SERVER, (remote_machine, remote_port))

while not EXIT_FLAG:
    # just a dummy loop for debugging. you can also just wait on an event
    txThread.yield(1000)




From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Sat Jan  6 05:53:42 2001
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2001 10:53:42 +0000
Subject: Memory Leakage with Tuples and Lists
References: <936h6e$d11$1@news.nuri.net>
Message-ID: <x7ldJVA2kvV6EwMC@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>

In article <936h6e$d11$1 at news.nuri.net>, June Kim <junaftnoon at nospamplzy
ahoo.com> writes
>Tested under Python 1.5 and 2.0 on Win32:
>
>1.
>Python 2.0 (#8, Oct 16 2000, 17:27:58) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)
>Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more informat
>>>> for j in range(10):
>...     temp=range(800000)
>...     del temp
>
>2.
>Python 2.0 (#8, Oct 16 2000, 17:27:58) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)
>Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more informat
>>>> for j in range(10):
>...     temp='a'*8000000
>...     del temp
>
>In the case of #2, there is no memory leakage at all. All the memory is
>returned 100%. However, in #1, there is a severe memory leakage, a few mega
>bytes. Do you guys experience this on *nices as well?
>
>
I don't see the leak you describe; how did you check for it? Certainly
the total memory used grows the first time I use the code; after all
800000 ints is 3.2M; if there a serious leak I would expect to see
around 32M disappear each time I run the code. I certainly don't see
that.
-- 
Robin Becker


From victor at prodigy.net  Wed Jan 10 16:07:25 2001
From: victor at prodigy.net (Victor Muslin)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 21:07:25 GMT
Subject: default arguments newbie question
Message-ID: <3a5cccca.77467843@localhost>

This behavior of the default list argument seems to be somewhat
counter-intuitive:

>>> def f(l=[]):
...   l.append(1)
...   print 'id=%d %s' % (id(l), l)
...
>>> f()
id=8369232 [1]
>>> f()
id=8369232 [1, 1]
>>> f()
id=8369232 [1, 1, 1]
>>> f([2])
id=8368384 [2, 1]
>>> f()
id=8369232 [1, 1, 1, 1]
>>>

If I want a function to print "[1]" every time it is called with no
arguments, do I have to do something like:

def f(l=None):
  if l == None:
    print [1]
  else:
    print l.append(1)

What's the acceptable Python idiom for this?


From matt at mondoinfo.com  Tue Jan 23 21:20:26 2001
From: matt at mondoinfo.com (Matthew Dixon Cowles)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 02:20:26 GMT
Subject: news - nntp server
References: <3a6daab8@news.xtml.co.uk>
Message-ID: <slrn96seva.ls.matt@happy-hour.mondoinfo.com>

On Tue, 23 Jan 2001 16:00:18 -0000, Nick Trout
<nickatvideosystemdotcodotuk> wrote:

>I'm trying to set up an NNTP/newsgroup server on an NT4 machine.
>
>What is the easiest way to do this please. Can Python help me?!

Nick,
The easiest way to do it depends a good deal on what you want to
do. News is conceptually very simple, it's the volume that's the
problem.

As of just now, a full newsfeed is somewhere in the 10s of GB per
day. Dealing with that requires big pipes, fancy machines, and
software that runs very efficiently.

I tend to doubt that Python can help you much with that. Some of the
links from

http://dmoz.org/Computers/Software/Internet/Servers/Usenet/

may point you at useful software. If you're interested in something
less than a full feed (say, no binaries or no binaries and little of
alt.*) the thing to do would be to talk to your service provider about
how much data that is (and how fast it's growing!) and size your pipe
and hardware accordingly.

That being said, I've been working on a trivial news server in
Python. Actually, it acts as a client, a server, and a cache since
it's intended to allow a newsreader that wants to read news while
online to read it while offline. It's not efficient at all since it's
only intended to deal with the volume of news that one person reads. I
plan to put a link to it at Parnassus

http://www.vex.net/parnassus/

when it's done or at least useful but if you'd like a copy even before
that, mail me and I'll be glad to send it along.

Regards,
Matt


From bbhaydon at my-deja.com  Sun Jan 14 22:28:20 2001
From: bbhaydon at my-deja.com (bbhaydon at my-deja.com)
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 03:28:20 GMT
Subject: PHP vs Python
References: <eAs86.7767$ED.239213@news1.rdc1.bc.home.com>
Message-ID: <93tqof$gu8$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

In article <eAs86.7767$ED.239213 at news1.rdc1.bc.home.com>,
  "TC" <trclark at home.com> wrote:
> Hi
> I did a quick search for deja python +php +review
> not even 1 relevent hit ...so
> any takers points of interest
Try including Java in that :\

>
> 0- how long is a peice of string ? ;)
>
> 1-which one is going to be around longer, why ??
>
> 2-who has more users
>
> 3-who hits the wall in scaling up and or handing complexity
>
> 4-general performance
>
> 5-where would I be better off using PHP over Python
>
> 6-DB interfaces consistent
>    -seems python has a standad API PHP appears all over the map
depending on
> DB
>
>


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From LCKJAM003 at mail.uct.ac.za  Tue Jan 16 07:06:01 2001
From: LCKJAM003 at mail.uct.ac.za (James)
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 14:06:01 +0200
Subject: PIL: _imagingtk
Message-ID: <3A643929.D29A1840@mail.uct.ac.za>

hi

don't know if i have just installed PIL badly or if i have to configure
something...
when i try and and run script that uses pil\ImageTk.py i get this error
message:

File "c:\python20\pil\ImageTk.py", line 123, in paste
    import _imagingtk
ImportError: No module named _imagingtk
>>>

Am using the binary releases of Python2.0, PIL 1.1.1, Numeric 17, and
win32all(build 135) on win Nt...

Thanks
James




From syver at NOSPAMcyberwatcher.com  Thu Jan 18 15:23:11 2001
From: syver at NOSPAMcyberwatcher.com (Syver Enstad)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 21:23:11 +0100
Subject: parsing a file [newbie]
References: <mailman.979728198.29644.python-list@python.org> <t%o96.174$eI2.99668@ruti.visi.com> <_fp96.178$eI2.100474@ruti.visi.com>
Message-ID: <947jg4$55r$1@troll.powertech.no>

"Grant Edwards" <grante at visi.com> wrote
 I could have used a list comprehension instead of a
> for loop.

Ouch, I feel really stupid to have to ask this question, but what the ... is
a list comprehension, and why is it better to use it than a for statement?




From dbrueck at edgix.com  Fri Jan 19 13:56:35 2001
From: dbrueck at edgix.com (Dave Brueck)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 11:56:35 -0700
Subject: py2exe - convert python scripts into exe files (windows)
In-Reply-To: <949sjv0bcj@news1.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <BLEOJGEMBNBNEAKMIFDHOEFPPGAA.dbrueck@edgix.com>

> [mailto:python-list-admin at python.org]On Behalf Of Alex Martelli
...
> Very interesting idea, but I must be doing something wrong.
...
> However, when I try to run this EXE, it doesn't work
> _quite_ right...:
>
> D:\PySym\salo\dist\hello>.\hello
> KeyError: imputil.pyc
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<string>", line 22, in ?
> NameError: There is no variable named 'imputil'
> hello world

I got the same thing. Don't know how to fix it, but as a hacky workaround
you can include imputil.py in your list of scripts:

... scripts=['hello.py','imputil.py'])

(I copied imputil.py to the same dir as setup.py too)

-Dave




From def-p at usa.net  Fri Jan 26 07:51:41 2001
From: def-p at usa.net (Def P)
Date: 26 Jan 2001 05:51:41 MST
Subject: xor operator?
Message-ID: <20010126125141.18593.qmail@nw128.netaddress.usa.net>

Hi,

I notice that there doesn't seem to be a boolean xor operator in Python. Does
someone know the reasons behind this? 

Regards,

Def P

____________________________________________________________________
Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1



From jh at web.de  Tue Jan 23 18:41:38 2001
From: jh at web.de (Jürgen Hermann)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 00:41:38 +0100
Subject: Using python to call .bat files
References: <94l44i$10km$1@news.adamastor.ac.za>
Message-ID: <94l4pr$hej$03$1@news.t-online.com>

"James Lockley" <jpl at global.co.za> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:94l44i$10km$1 at news.adamastor.ac.za...
>         list=os.popen(path).readlines()

Try

cmd = os.popen(path)
list = cmd.readlines()
result = cmd.close() # This is the return code of the program!

Note that getting a return code implies the program is done. ;)




From jurgen.defurne at philips.com  Tue Jan 23 03:31:58 2001
From: jurgen.defurne at philips.com (jurgen.defurne at philips.com)
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 09:31:58 +0100
Subject: I (don' ) will kill my Python
Message-ID: <0056900015344629000002L092*@MHS>

Let's pack in .DEB files and install apt-get and dpkg on Win PC's!!

Jurgen


From spenrose at well.com  Sun Jan  7 15:52:20 2001
From: spenrose at well.com (Sam Penrose)
Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2001 12:52:20 -0800
Subject: Identity and password management using Python on Linux
Message-ID: <spenrose-832F24.12522007012001@news.dnai.com>

We write web applications in Python, which we host on Linux boxes. We're 
growing fast, and need to automate some system administration tasks. 
We'd like to use Python for this, if possible, rather than shell 
scripting or Perl. We have two problems involving Linux' handling of 
identity to which the solutions using Python are not clear.

1) We need parts of our websites to be writable by both the client and 
non-Linux-savvy members of our own staff using rather clueless GUI FTP 
tools. We'd like to give them a CGI script they can call after saving a 
file that will reset its permissions to 664, with the correct owner 
(client) and group (client+us). Our CGIs run as nobody (called by 
Apache); typically we would switch to root in the shell to make those 
changes. How can we do this through CGI?

2) We'd like to give our main sys admin a front end for rotating 
passwords that will speed the following process:
    i. Log on to a server as root over SSH, preferably by demanding a 
password rather than using keys.
    ii. For each shell account on the server, prompt for the new 
password twice and change it. When the shell accounts are done, we'll do 
the MySQL accounts (easy) and the htaccess passwords, which I assume is 
easy.
    iii. Log on to the next server and repeat ii., until all the servers
are done. (We currently have about 15 servers with 5-10 necessary 
accounts per; we anticipate doubling the # of machines over the next few 
months).

I assume the front end for 2) will be a shell, but don't know how to 
pass commands to a local shell that will be snarfed up by Python and 
passed to a remote shell.

Any help appreciated...


From michael at stroeder.com  Sat Jan 13 08:50:31 2001
From: michael at stroeder.com (Michael =?iso-8859-1?Q?Str=F6der?=)
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 14:50:31 +0100
Subject: Python and Industry
References: <20010111172342.10148.00000934@ng-ca1.aol.com>
Message-ID: <3A605D27.9736ED01@stroeder.com>

Crutoy wrote:
> 
> does anyone know how widly in an instries does python being used ?

I don't have any general information. I know one company which uses
an embedded Python interpreter as a built-in scripting language for
customizing of their own C++-written products.

Ciao, Michael.


From doug at postsmart.net  Mon Jan  8 15:49:00 2001
From: doug at postsmart.net (Doug Ball)
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 14:49:00 -0600
Subject: Thank you (was Re: Should I learn Python or Java?)
References: <HEO56.5504$y9.2881293@typhoon.we.rr.com> <G2V56.5826$y9.3184141@typhoon.we.rr.com> <mailman.978901087.32745.python-list@python.org> <3A593236.6331BE0C@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <00ea01c079b4$6dc9f4c0$8a00000a@darwin.net>

Dear Peter and list:

Peter you mentioned in a posting:

"I don't think I know of any language without warts, and
I think there's a theory (from Hofstadter? (sp?)) that
says you can't have a theory that is both consistent and
complete."

I am a big fan of such things and was excited to see you mention it.
However I think you may be referring to Godel's Theorem.

If anyone is interested in this topic there is an excellent book entitled
"Godel, Escher, Bach: an Eternal Golden Braid" by Douglas R. Hofstadter.  In
his book, Dr. Hofstadter  restates Godel's theorem as: " All consistent
axiomatic formulations of number theory include undecidable propositions."

Thanks again for bringing it up!

Doug





From fredrik at effbot.org  Sun Jan 28 18:41:40 2001
From: fredrik at effbot.org (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 23:41:40 GMT
Subject: Anyone get python on win98??
References: <WXZc6.8032$KP3.2632221@news3.rdc1.on.home.com> <Sd_c6.15114$fe1.211288@news20.bellglobal.com> <fY1d6.9581$KP3.3115447@news3.rdc1.on.home.com>
Message-ID: <U62d6.10023$AH6.1605412@newsc.telia.net>

"shaka" <fabrice.n at home.com> wrote:
> It just doesn't work: it gives me an error message like:
>
> File "<stdin>", line 1
>     c:\programming\python20>python hello.py
>      ^
> SyntaxError: invalid syntax
>
> so what do I do???

use the *MS-DOS* command line, not the interactive
Python prompt.

in the start menu, look for something called "MS-DOS
Windows" or "Command Window".

click on it.

in the window that appears, use the "cd" command to
go to the directory where you installed Python.  to run
scriptname.py, type "python scriptname.py"

if you have no idea of what I am talking about, you pro-
bably need to spend some time with a Windows tutorial.
here's one:

http://sunset.swan.ac.uk/personal/mjb/teaching/envmod/em-book/node36.html

Cheers /F




From thomas at xs4all.net  Fri Jan  5 05:04:59 2001
From: thomas at xs4all.net (Thomas Wouters)
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 11:04:59 +0100
Subject: 2001 Enchancement Wishlist
In-Reply-To: <006801c0769b$ac0cc3a0$9d8a1a97@martelli>; from aleaxit@yahoo.com on Thu, Jan 04, 2001 at 11:10:10PM +0100
References: <3A4CEACB.220998A0@javanet.com> <Ro736.2511$Qb7.273102@newsb.telia.net> <92j83r13gh@news1.newsguy.com> <20001231175940.A5435@xs4all.nl> <008301c07501$c036ae40$43931497@martelli> <20010104165116.F2467@xs4all.nl> <008601c07675$0adf2020$102b2bc1@cadlab.it> <20010104203232.P402@xs4all.nl> <006801c0769b$ac0cc3a0$9d8a1a97@martelli>
Message-ID: <20010105110459.Q402@xs4all.nl>

On Thu, Jan 04, 2001 at 11:10:10PM +0100, Alex Martelli wrote:
> "Thomas Wouters" <thomas at xs4all.net> writes:
> 
> > > A module object, in contrast, has no such flexibility.  It can of
> > > course have *attributes*, which, as they can be anything (in particular,
> > > they can be class-instances), are as flexible as can be -- but it
> > > cannot present any 'face' to client-code, except its own.
> >
> > Nor is it intended to. Nor should you ever *want* to. *That* is why I
> don't
> 
> Recapitulating: I said "it's a pity one can't do X".  You answered "but
> of course one can" (do X).  Now, in contrast, you say that one's not
> _intended_ to do X, and it's even a "forbidden desire" to harbor.  This
> is in total contradiction to your original rebuttal of my "you can't".

Not at all. *You* can do X. So can I. So can every programmer. Using Python.
But if you insist on only using a module namespace, for some odd reason. you
can't. 

> > understand your problem with me saying that it's perfectly possible to use
> > a module namespace to provide singletons.
> 
> I never said one cannot use a module namespace to provide singletons.
> 
> What I said was, and I quote, that a module "can't define special methods
> to determine how it will print, how it will let usercode loop on its items,
> etc";
> and you sharply contradicted my "can't" by asserting "of course it can".
> It's easy to check who said what when, you know.

Alex, I already said that that wasn't what I meant. If you use Python, you
use Python, not one the single feature of module namespaces. Module
namespaces can do jack shit. That doesn't mean Python can't.

> > I don't give a gerbil's tush about semantics myself.

> I.e., you don't care what words mean? 

I don't care what *you* think my words mean, no :) I've tried to explain
what I meant, but if that isn't enough, I stop caring. I have years of
experience with people who refuse to listen to what I *intend* to say, and
instead focus on their interpretation of my words, despite the fact that I
repeatedly stated that wasn't what I meant. That way I've been accused of
being a rascist (even though I grew up in the black slums of Amsterdam where
most of my schoolfriends were black), a gay-basher (even though I grew up
knowing my father's gay and I have no problem with that) and a fascist
(though I'm strongly left-wing, almost communist ;) -- and those were just
the friendly ones. When you've experienced that for the umpteenth time
(which happened some years ago) you turn into a cynical old coot and stop
caring what other people think or say as long as they don't make your life
harder :)

> My "forbidden desire" (to get in a module-object some of the nice
> flexibility I get with class instance objects)

Aaah, now I see the problem. You realized that *module instances* are
singletons (which I didn't think about, because I don't care about
singletons, either :) and thus were talking about modules themselves, not
the contents of their namespaces. What /F proposed, or at least how I
interpreted his proposal, was to use module namespaces as namespaces to hold
singletons, not use modules themselves as your singletons. And yes, I agree,
you can't let the module define how it behaves. I simply thought you were
talking about objects in a module's namespace, since needing modules to be
definable is such a boggling concept, to me :-)

> That a singleton (which is not a module object) may be bound to an
> attribute in a module's namespace is certainly true (just as it may be
> bound to an item in a tuple, or whatever), and not particularly
> interesting.  Part of the lack of flexibility of module objects means that
> the module cannot stop that attribute from accidentally being re-bound to
> something different, of course -- a class instance COULD do that regarding
> its attributes by defining __setattr__ suitably, of course -- but maybe I
> shouldn't even *discuss* my forbidden desires, as class instances are
> *intended* to be able to protect attributes against accidental rebinding
> while module objects aren't, and that's that...?

Of course you can express your forbidden desires. Even the desire for
__str__ and __[gs]etattr__, even though I think it's a pretty useless idea.
(Modules are namespaces, and should stay namespaces. If you want an object
to be 'configurable', you shouldn't use a namespace. Keep Python Simple ;)

Regardless of singletons, there might be other good reasons to provide, for
instance, 'frozen' modules, with a read-only namespace after initialization.
Or rather, *easy* frozen modules, since I think you can already do it from
C. But I still fail to see how using a factory function is an imperfect
solution, other than for the sake of theory. Maybe Guido should Pronounce
that Python is not a singleton language, just like it isn't a functional
one, but it does provide ways of working around the missing parts.

> But anyway, what irked me was not basically what you _meant_ (not
> being particularly well-provided with ESP, I could hardly guess that by
> saying 'of course you can' you meant 'you cannot and should not
> even *want* to'), but, rather, what you _said_ -- which now appears
> you agree is utterly false and unfounded, and not far from the reverse
> of your intended meaning (and if you think that by saying the opposite
> of what you mean you are "making clear" anything, you must have a
> peculiar view of 'clarity').

No, not at all. I still stand by my original statement: you can do anything
you want to an object in a module namespace. It's just that we were talking
about something different -- module namespaces *contents* versus module
namespaces themselves. I wonder which was the one /F intended ? :)

-- 
Thomas Wouters <thomas at xs4all.net>

Hi! I'm a .signature virus! copy me into your .signature file to help me spread!



From timd at macquarie.com.au  Tue Jan  2 23:02:47 2001
From: timd at macquarie.com.au (Timothy Docker)
Date: 03 Jan 2001 15:02:47 +1100
Subject: tkinter + threads
Message-ID: <m4ihf3hnuzc.fsf@macquarie.com.au>

I've trolled deja for a definitive answer, but couldn't see one.

I have a Tkinter application which presently uses createfilehandler
on unix. I need to move it to win32, where of course, this function
doesn't exist. Ideally I'd like a non-polled solution, where a
background thread can notify the mainloop thread of updates to be
performed. Unfortunably the best I can com up with is shown
below.

This works both on win32 and unix, but I'm not happy with the
tradeoff between response time and cpu load.

Is there any means by which a background thread can notify the
tkinter mainloop? This is possible in wxpython with the PostEvent
method, which I have used in the past.

Thanks,

Tim

----------------------------------------------------------------------



from Tkinter import *
import thread, sys, time

class Slot:
    def __init__(self):
        self.val = None
        self.lock = thread.allocate_lock()

    def get(self):
        try:
            self.lock.acquire()
            v = self.val
            self.val = None
            return v
        finally:
            self.lock.release()

    def put(self, v):
        try:
            self.lock.acquire()
            self.val = v
        finally:
            self.lock.release()
        
slot = Slot()

def calcThread():
    from random import random
    while 1:
        x = random()
        slot.put ( '%0.4f' % x )
        time.sleep(0.333)

def getQueue():
    b = slot.get()
    if b != None:
        label.config(text=b)
    button.after( 100, getQueue )
    
button = Button(text="Exit",command=sys.exit)
button.after( 100, getQueue )
button.pack()
label = Label(text="________________")
label.pack()

thread.start_new_thread( calcThread, () )
button.mainloop()



From root at rainerdeyke.com  Sun Jan 28 19:19:12 2001
From: root at rainerdeyke.com (Rainer Deyke)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 00:19:12 GMT
Subject: Hack request: rational numbers
References: <951h34$tch$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, <Pine.LNX.4.21.0101251759070.28148-100000@kev.ioc.ee> <mailman.980702855.389.python-list@python.org> <2W%c6.128157$ge4.46108705@news2.rdc2.tx.home.com> <3A749696.2BD57BA9@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <4G2d6.128417$ge4.46434631@news2.rdc2.tx.home.com>

"Erik Max Francis" <max at alcyone.com> wrote in message
news:3A749696.2BD57BA9 at alcyone.com...
> Rainer Deyke wrote:
>
> > Why not add native quaternion support to Python?  Quaternions are
> > complex
> > numbers where the imaginary part is a vector in three dimensions,
> > defined in
> > terms of unit vectors i, j, and k.
>
> Ah, but why?  :-)  Besides, the use of 1, i, j, k for quaternion units
> is inconsistent with using 1, j (not 1, i) for complex units.

It serves no real purpose except in some fairly specialized fields, but it
is easy to implement, doesn't get in the way, and is "fun" - just like the
current built-in support for complex numbers.


--
Rainer Deyke (root at rainerdeyke.com)
Shareware computer games           -           http://rainerdeyke.com
"In ihren Reihen zu stehen heisst unter Feinden zu kaempfen" - Abigor




From johann at physics.berkeley.edu  Wed Jan 24 12:21:47 2001
From: johann at physics.berkeley.edu (Johann Hibschman)
Date: 24 Jan 2001 09:21:47 -0800
Subject: Python vs Ruby
References: <94mdkd$222e$1@news.adamastor.ac.za>
Message-ID: <mthf2o6f2s.fsf@astron.berkeley.edu>

James Lockley writes:

> Just been reading a "Ruby centric" comparison of Ruby vs Python on:
> http://helium.ruby-lang.org/en/compar.html

> would be interested to hear the Pythonista view....

I've played with Ruby a bit, but only played with it.  It's a nice
language, with a bunch of fun features, like iterators, which I
thought were cool when I first ran into them in Sather.  (Originally
from Icon, or something like that?  No matter.)

I'm a bear of little brain, and I can fit most of Python into my head,
but I had trouble getting all of Ruby in, because it had just that
much more complexity.  That's probably just practice, though.

I'm not such a big fan of OO that I think everything has to be an
object.  Functions are nice, too.  :-)

-- 
Johann Hibschman                           johann at physics.berkeley.edu


From embed at NO_SPAM_PLEASE.geocities.com  Fri Jan  5 16:44:16 2001
From: embed at NO_SPAM_PLEASE.geocities.com (Warren Postma)
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 16:44:16 -0500
Subject: embedded python - cancel "while 1: pass"
References: <mailman.978719766.1897.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ggr56.378$Oe.2825@tor-nn1.netcom.ca>

"Tim Peters" <tim.one at home.com> wrote:

> It's getting at the same thing.  Py_AddPendingCall does not have proper
> mutual exclusion (the comment *says* "critical section" but the code
doesn't
> implement one!),

That sounds easy to add to me! :-)

....


As for the "portable thread-local-storage" problem, are there any other
scripting languages out there that are highly multithreaded, that we could
examine to see how they overcome these things?  (Does a JVM have a means of
signalling
it's threads?)

Warren





From SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk  Fri Jan  5 06:08:53 2001
From: SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk (Simon Brunning)
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 11:08:53 -0000 
Subject: 2001 Enchancement Wishlist
Message-ID: <31575A892FF6D1118F5800600846864D5B169C@intrepid>

> From:	Fredrik Lundh [SMTP:fredrik at effbot.org]
	...words can mean more than one thing...
 
'There's glory for you!'

`I don't know what you mean by "glory,"' Alice said.

Humpty Dumpty smiled contemptuously.  `Of course you don't - till I tell
you.  I meant "there's a nice knock-down argument for you!"'

`But "glory" doesn't mean "a nice knock-down argument,"' Alice objected.

`When _I_ use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, `it
means just what I choose it to mean -neither more nor less.'

Cheers,
Simon Brunning
TriSystems Ltd.
sbrunning at trisystems.co.uk





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It is intended solely for the addressee. Access to this email by anyone else
is unauthorised. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure,
copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in
reliance on it, is prohibited and may be unlawful. TriSystems Ltd. cannot
accept liability for statements made which are clearly the senders own.



From thomas.heller at ion-tof.com  Sat Jan 20 05:19:50 2001
From: thomas.heller at ion-tof.com (Thomas Heller)
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 11:19:50 +0100
Subject: py2exe - convert python scripts into exe files (windows)
References: <mailman.979931830.3481.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <94boo6$d11c9$1@ID-59885.news.dfncis.de>

Several people reported a problem similar to:
> >
> > D:\PySym\salo\dist\hello>.\hello
> > KeyError: imputil.pyc
> > Traceback (most recent call last):
> >   File "<string>", line 22, in ?
> > NameError: There is no variable named 'imputil'
> > hello world
>
I may have found the problem, but not yet a solution.
I will fix this as soon as possible (but unfortunately
not over the weekend, my children...)

Thanks for all how tried this utility!

Thomas




From ljohnson at resgen.com  Wed Jan 31 10:48:24 2001
From: ljohnson at resgen.com (Lyle Johnson)
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 09:48:24 -0600
Subject: Cannot find libModules.a lib*.a, etc...
References: <9578l9$nj3$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <t3Gd6.10295$Qb7.1525608@newsb.telia.net> <957dlb$sel$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <t7gcplne1ujac0@corp.supernews.com>

> Is that to say that I don't even *need* libModules.a, etc, just link
> with libpython2.0.a ? ?

Yes, it's all in libpythonx.y.a these days.





From grey at despair.rpglink.com  Wed Jan 31 17:44:50 2001
From: grey at despair.rpglink.com (Steve Lamb)
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 22:44:50 -0000
Subject: Perl-to-Python converter/translator?
References: <959jsd$njn$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <959uuh01qd3@drn.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <slrn97h5b2.j0u.grey@teleute.dmiyu.org>

On 31 Jan 2001 13:09:37 -0800, Grant Griffin <not.this at seebelow.org> wrote:
>But in any case, if you are experienced in Perl, you will find Python
>extremely easy to pick up.  And after going through Guido's tutorial, I can
>think of no better way to learn it than to manually translate some of your
>old Perl scripts into Python.

    Agreed.  I convered a "dice server" of mine as a way to learn Python and
in several hours of real-time coding spread over two weeks I had the Python
script not only up to about 90% of the functionality of the Perl script but
also had improved upon some portions and felt that I did a much cleaner job in
Python.  The remaining 10% that the Python script doesn't do is because there
are libraries in Python to do it that I've not yet played with and don't want
to do it the half-assed way I did in Perl.  Another hour or two should have it
completed.

    I'm also sure that the Python script could be improved upon greatly.
Point being, though, that it was trivial to do the conversion.

    Oh, the only reference I used was the Beazley book.

-- 
         Steve C. Lamb         | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your
         ICQ: 5107343          | main connection to the switchboard of souls.
-------------------------------+---------------------------------------------


From chris at voodooland.net  Thu Jan 11 14:19:13 2001
From: chris at voodooland.net (Chris Watson)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 13:19:13 -0600 (CST)
Subject: BSDDB problem
In-Reply-To: <3A5DE0C6.44E770B8@ex.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.21.0101111318050.36494-100000@open-systems.net>

> Hi,
> 
> I am using Python 2.0 on a Linux machine. I wanted to use the bsddb
> module to get the information out the Netscape History.dat file. I tried
> the following:
> 
> import bsddb
> hist = bsddb.hashopen('history.dat', 'r')

	I'm not that great at python yet but dont you need 'rb' since its
a binary file? and not just r? I don't think that helps, its just an
observation.

--
=============================================================================
-Chris Watson         (316) 326-3862 | FreeBSD Consultant, FreeBSD Geek 
Work:              scanner at jurai.net | Open Systems Inc., Wellington, Kansas
Home:  scanner at deceptively.shady.org | http://open-systems.net
=============================================================================
WINDOWS: "Where do you want to go today?"
LINUX: "Where do you want to go tomorrow?"
BSD: "Are you guys coming or what?"
=============================================================================
irc.openprojects.net #FreeBSD -Join the revolution!
ICQ: 20016186




From matt at virtualspectator.com  Sat Jan 20 06:09:47 2001
From: matt at virtualspectator.com (matt)
Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 00:09:47 +1300
Subject: Unicode, COM, Word Problem
In-Reply-To: <94bkik$1hs$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk>
References: <94bkik$1hs$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk>
Message-ID: <0101210024320K.00856@localhost.localdomain>

Not that I have tried doing anything like what you are doing, but I do see
something potentially nasty.  I assume that your copy clipboard is receiving
the characters in Microsofts pseudo interpretation of ISO-8859-1.  For a start
ISO-8859-1 is a full 256 character set, so even if Microsofts version of
ISO-8859-1 was correct, then you would get many characters outside the standard
128 characters of ascii.  The thing to watch with Microsoft is that they start
to use a range of characters usually designed for control characters to
actually hold some punctuation etc ... these are in the range of 0x7F to 0x9F
hex, for example they use 0x80 for &euro, whereas it is not defined in
ISO-8859-1.

My guess is that you need to 1) not parse your text as ascii, 2) parse it
instead as ISO-8859-1, but 3) take account of their use of the undefined set
using a translation table to get them back into valid ISO-8859-1.

But that's all just a guess.  I am a 'nix person who has to deal with people
copying and pasting from "word" into form submissions in a browser ... so I
have been stung by something similar.

Matt



On Sat, 20 Jan 2001, Kirby James wrote:
> Hi, I'm writing a script to read and summarize a large number of MS Word-97
> documents, using the Python win32com.client. I open each file in turn (using
> COM and Word) and select and copy the first 500 characters.
>     myWord.Selection.HomeKey(constants.wdStory)
>     myWord.Selection.MoveEnd(constants.wdCharacter, 500)
>     sText = myWord.Selection.Text
> However when I try to print sText (or write it to a file
> output.write(sText)) I get an exception
>     UnicodeError: ASCII encoding error: ordinal not in range(128)
> I've tried using str
>      sText2 = str(sText)
> but still get the same error. I've tried wrapping the code with a try:
> except UnicodeError: block but then the string is not converted. I'd
> appreciate any pointers as to how I can 'clean-up' this string so that I can
> output it as an 8-bit character string.
> Tks Kirby
> 
> 
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
-- 



From dan.rolander at marriott.com  Sun Jan 21 09:55:06 2001
From: dan.rolander at marriott.com (Dan Rolander)
Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 09:55:06 -0500
Subject: wxPython -- Article on wxWindows
Message-ID: <046701c083ba$24b596d0$11260340@yin>

For those of you interested in wxPython, here is an interesting article
about the closely related wxWindows.

Dan

----- Original Message -----
From: "Robin Dunn" <robin at alldunn.com>
To: "wx-users" <wxwindows-users at lists.sourceforge.net>; "wx-devel"
<wxwindows-devel at lists.sourceforge.net>; "wxPython-users"
<wxpython-users at lists.sourceforge.net>
Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2001 2:51 PM
Subject: [wx-users] Article on wxWindows


Hi All.

I just found this:

http://www.sunworld.com/unixinsideronline/swol-12-2000/swol-1218-wxwindows.h
tml

I don't remember seeing it announced anywhere so I thought I would let you
know about it.

--
Robin Dunn
Software Craftsman
robin at AllDunn.com       Java give you jitters?
http://wxPython.org      Relax with wxPython!



_______________________________________________
wxWindows-users mailing list
wxWindows-users at lists.sourceforge.net
http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wxwindows-users





From tbryan at python.net  Wed Jan 24 07:18:22 2001
From: tbryan at python.net (Thomas A. Bryan)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 07:18:22 -0500
Subject: Customizing CGI script via execfile
Message-ID: <3A6EC80E.CED8B6B0@python.net>

Short version:  I had a program that was to be run from 
the command line to output HTML.  End user customizations 
were permitted via a configuration file in each user's 
home directory and Python's execfile.  I have made 
modifications so that the script can be called via CGI, 
but the execfile no longer seems safe in this context.  

Long version:
I have a program that generates HTML.  It was intended that 
the program would be installed centrally and that each user 
could customize the output easily.  To accomplish this quickly, 
I simply had the program call execfile on an .rc file in each 
user's home directory.

The script has a configuration dictionary and some of the 
functionality encapsulated in functions.  Something like 
this:

configuration = {'fullname':   "Your Name",
                 'mailaddr':   "id at some.host",
                 'body': '<BODY>'}

def generate_footer(configuration, message):
    fullname = configuration['fullname']
    mailaddr = configuration['mailaddr']
    # get a dictionary: localvar -> value
    local_strings = vars()
    return """    
      <ADDRESS>
        <A HREF="mailto:%(mailaddr)s">
        %(fullname)s</A>
      </ADDRESS>
    </BODY>
    </HTML>""" % local_strings


Thus, in the user's .rc file, he can perform simple customization 
of the output by writing

configuration['fullname'] = 'Tom Bryan'
configuration['mailaddr'] = 'tbryan at python.net'
configuration['BODY'] = '<BODY BGCOLOR="#FFFFFF">'

Since I call execfile, Python programmers can redefine entire functions, 
such as generate_footer, if he'd like completely different behavior from 
portions of the program.

Now that I'd like the program to be called as a CGI script, I'd like 
to remove the execfile call, but I'd love to continue to permit 
extensive customization.  For example, the ConfigParser module would 
permit customization like I show above with strings in the configuration 
dictionary, but it wouldn't permit redefinition of entire functions. 
Ideally, I'd only permit customization of the functions and variables 
defined in the Python program, without permitting access to most modules 
(such as os and system).  Otherwise, the script would be much easier to 
use as an attack to the system (for example, by pushing a file onto the 
system somewhere and calling the CGI script with an overridden 
configuration file location).  Most of the function redefinition is simply 
so that the user can modify what text is output (for example, if his 
page uses CSS, he may want to modify the header).   It is okay to 
deny him access to most Python modules.  Is the rexec module what I should 
be using?  I played with it for a little while, but I wasn't sure whether 
rexec could do what I want.  I thought about doing something import, but 
I'm not sure wether that's sane either.  Any suggestions?

---Tom


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Thu Jan 18 11:53:11 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 17:53:11 +0100
Subject: Dynamic attributes
References: <Pine.WNT.4.32.0101181556160.1644-100000@haw2u1320>
Message-ID: <94774b0164i@news2.newsguy.com>

"Miki Tebeka" <mtebeka at iil.intel.com> wrote in message
news:Pine.WNT.4.32.0101181556160.1644-100000 at haw2u1320...
> Hello All,
>
> Is there an "official" way to do the following?

If I get your meaning correctly, the 'official' hooks
you have to implement in your DynAttribs mixin are
__getattr__ and __setattr__ -- they can look into your
dictionary to get the methods to call for get/set
purposes.  Take care about naming things with leading
'__' (double underscores) if you don't know all of the
implications -- use a single underscore to indicate
'private [by-convention]'.


Alex





From nas at arctrix.com  Fri Jan 19 06:15:09 2001
From: nas at arctrix.com (Neil Schemenauer)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 03:15:09 -0800
Subject: Garbage collector - please Help !!
In-Reply-To: <slrn96fdfr.52f.amk@207-172-36-33.s33.tnt6.ann.va.dialup.rcn.com>; from amk@mira.erols.com on Fri, Jan 19, 2001 at 03:21:31AM +0000
References: <9475ob$c6v$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <kusnmgd86f.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi> <947vml$fd0$1@news.udel.edu> <slrn96fdfr.52f.amk@207-172-36-33.s33.tnt6.ann.va.dialup.rcn.com>
Message-ID: <20010119031509.C16214@glacier.fnational.com>

On Fri, Jan 19, 2001 at 03:21:31AM +0000, A.M. Kuchling wrote:
> As long as Python 2.0 wasn't compiled with GC disabled,
> cyclical data structures should be collected (modulo a few
> known bugs fixed in 2.1).

Note that the GC in 2.0 is somewhat misnamed.  It doesn't
actually free any memory itself.  It is more of a reference cycle
detector and breaker.  The reference counting mechanism still
takesi care of the memory allocation issues.

  Neil



From tim.one at home.com  Mon Jan  8 02:55:44 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 02:55:44 -0500
Subject: embedded python - cancel "while 1: pass"
In-Reply-To: <ggr56.378$Oe.2825@tor-nn1.netcom.ca>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCMEEOIHAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Tim]
> Py_AddPendingCall does not have proper mutual exclusion (the
> comment *says* "critical section" but the code doesn't implement
> one!),

[Warren Postma]
> That sounds easy to add to me! :-)

Hard to say without giving it more thought than I can afford now.  If you
use a platform-specific exclusion method, sure.  If you stick to Python's
portable lock abstraction, though, it *could* be much harder.  For example,
if you reuse the global interpreter lock for this, it creates real problems
for threads Python didn't create (they would have to bootstrap themselves
into having all the crud Python requires before a thread *can* acquire the
global lock).  OTOH, if you create a new lock for this, there may be
potential for deadlock (depending ...).

If it interests you enough to figure it all out <wink>, you should take it
up on the Thread-SIG.

> As for the "portable thread-local-storage" problem, are there any
> other scripting languages out there that are highly multithreaded,
> that we could examine to see how they overcome these things?

Not that I know of.  But note that TLS is basically trivial from a tech
viewpoint:  every threaded platform has *some* reasonable way to spell it.
The problem is that no two platforms spell it the same way, so it's another
configuration (at Python build time) nightmare requiring lots of platform
experts.  And then there's HP-UX, where no two platform experts have ever
agreed on how to do anything involving threads <0.5 wink>.

> (Does a JVM have a means of signalling it's threads?)

A whole different API with every release, trying to make up for that the
previous release's API didn't work <0.7 wink>.  Seriously, Java's thread
.stop(), .resume(), and .suspend() methods were all deprecated, because they
proved to be "inherently unsafe" in practice.  This isn't real surprising:
a thread is cheaper than an OS process largely because the runtime *doesn't*
save enough info to clean up a thread safely, short of the death of the
process it's running in.  The current Java advice should sound familiar by
now:

    Many uses of stop should be replaced by code that simply
    modifies some variable to indicate that the target thread
    should stop running.  The target thread should check this
    variable regularly, and return from its run method in an
    orderly fashion if the variable indicates that it is to stop
    running.

But Java does still support Thread.interrupt(), which can be used to "wake
up" a thread waiting on a Thread.sleep(), Thread.join() or Object.wait().
With enough work, I expect Python could offer much the same.  That's not
what most people seem to want, though (they mostly seem to want to kill hung
I/O operations in threads, and there's not much hope of that ever
happening).

if-you-can't-do-it-in-std-c-the-python-implementation-generally-
    isn't-going-to-be-able-to-either-ly y'rs  - tim




From duncan at rcp.co.uk  Wed Jan  3 08:51:29 2001
From: duncan at rcp.co.uk (Duncan Booth)
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2001 13:51:29 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Nested structs and struct.pack
References: <92v6g5$t87$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <901E82000duncanrcpcouk@194.238.50.13>

ken_ar at my-deja.com wrote in <92v6g5$t87$1 at nnrp1.deja.com>:

>I've probably misunderstood how the compiler lays
>out nested structs. But is there any way to tell
>the struct module that I have nested structs so
>that the C compiler and Python produce the same
>result ?
>

You can use pad bytes ('x' in the format string). So instead of a format of 
"lcc" you could use "lcxxxcxxx" if your machine is little endian, or 
"lxxxcxxxc" if it is big endian.

Of course you will have to know exactly how the struct is laid out in 
memory and this will vary between machines, compilers, or even with 
different options given to the same compiler.


From cfelling at iae.nl  Mon Jan 22 17:39:30 2001
From: cfelling at iae.nl (Carel Fellinger)
Date: 22 Jan 2001 23:39:30 +0100
Subject: How do I know all thrown exceptions of a function?
References: <g3lb49.73s.ln@127.0.0.1> <94d93h$55d$1@troll.powertech.no> <mailman.980059223.25947.python-list@python.org> <Qeya6.7932$AH6.1260668@newsc.telia.net> <3A6B24F0.EA164698@gte.net>
Message-ID: <94icr2$6kv$1@animus.fel.iae.nl>

Steve Williams <sandj.williams at gte.net> wrote:
...
> Catching exceptions thrown by imported classes is not easy, simple or clear,
> IMHO.  The  solution requires a technique (adding the exception name to the
> import statement) that is not common in Python documentation or examples.

I'm not sure  I fully understand you, but something like the following
seems common in Python:

Module somelib:

   class Error(Exception):
	pass

   def somefunc():
       '''does something
          beware, could raise Error
       '''
       raise Error


Module MyProg:

   import somelib

   try:
	somelib.somefunc()
   except somelib.Error:
        'do something about it'
-- 
groetjes, carel


From erno-news at erno.iki.fi  Thu Jan  4 04:05:52 2001
From: erno-news at erno.iki.fi (Erno Kuusela)
Date: 04 Jan 2001 11:05:52 +0200
Subject: Unexpected result for list operator "+="
References: <3A542778.E1BC06E3@bogusaddress.com> <mfW46.227356$U46.7026522@news1.sttls1.wa.home.com>
Message-ID: <ku66jvoff3.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>

In article <mfW46.227356$U46.7026522 at news1.sttls1.wa.home.com>, "Greg
Jorgensen" <gregj at pobox.com> writes: A

| Assignment of immutable objects (numbers, strings, tuples)
| essentially makes a copy of the object.  Assignment of mutable
| objects (lists, dictionaries) creates a new reference to the
| original object.

actually (non-augmented) assignment is always just about references, even
with immutable objects.

  -- erno


From rjroy at takingcontrol.com  Sun Jan 21 10:07:30 2001
From: rjroy at takingcontrol.com (Robert Roy)
Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 15:07:30 GMT
Subject: Determining if a superclass is being initialized from a derived class
References: <mailman.980036124.10498.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3a6af643.253580890@news1.on.sympatico.ca>

On Sat, 20 Jan 2001 16:14:06 -0800, Timothy Grant
<tjg at exceptionalminds.com> wrote:

>Hi folk,
>
>I have a superclass that I'm using for a project. The superclass has a
>debugging function that is called whenever the command line option --debug
>is used.
>
>I have run into a situation where I need to subclass the superclass. I want
>access to the debugging information, but not until after the subclass is
>fully initialized.
>
>class superclass:
>	def __init__(self):
>		self.a = 1
>		self.b = 2
>		if self.debug:
>			self.dodebug()
>	def dodebug():
>		print self.a
>		print self.b
>
>
>class subclass(superclass):
>	def __init__(self):
>		superclass.__init__(self)
>
>		self.a = 2
>		self.b = 4
>
>		if self.debug:
>			self.dodebug()
>
>In the above, dodebug() is called twice. I would like to only call it the
>second time.
>
>Enlightenment would be greatly appreciated.
>

Here is a really ugly way to do it...
NOT recommended...

class uglysubclass(superclass):
	def __init__(self):
		debug = self.debug
		self.debug = 0
		superclass.__init__(self)
		self.a = 2
		self.b = 4
		self.debug = debug

		if self.debug:
			self.dodebug()


I am sure there are a million variations on this theme as well....


If the only difference between the classes is the initialisation, then
don't subclass at all.
class superclass:
	def __init__(self, a=1, b=2):
		self.a = a
		self.b = b
		if self.debug:
			self.dodebug()
and perhaps use a factory function in the module to simplify the user
interface. 

def getStandard():
	return superclass()

def getSpecial():
	return superclass(2,4)

def getExtraSpecial(a, b):
	return superclass(a,b)

The bonus of this is that if you later decide you need to subclass,
you can do it without changing any client code (providing the
interface remains consistent. Thus if you created a subclass
specialsubclass you would simply rewrite getSpecial to return an
instance of specialsubclass

def getSpecial():
	return specialsubclass(2,4)




If you need to subclass, then my choice would be to move the variable
initalisation into another method. The use of factory functions is
equally valid in this scenario.

class superclass:
	def __init__(self):
		self.initialise()
		if self.debug:
			self.dodebug()

	def initialise(self):
		self.a = 1
		self.b = 2

	def dodebug():
		print self.a
		print self.b


class subclass(superclass):
	def initialise(self):
		self.a = 2
		self.b = 4



Bob


From jafo-pythonlist at tummy.com  Thu Jan 25 00:47:28 2001
From: jafo-pythonlist at tummy.com (Sean Reifschneider)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 22:47:28 -0700
Subject: Python and postgreSQL ??
In-Reply-To: <kuy9w05sds.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>; from erno-news@erno.iki.fi on Thu, Jan 25, 2001 at 03:31:59AM +0200
References: <slrn96uhcq.1u1.isard@localhost.localdomain> <kuy9w05sds.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>
Message-ID: <20010124224728.B26314@tummy.com>

On Thu, Jan 25, 2001 at 03:31:59AM +0200, Erno Kuusela wrote:
>pygresql comes with a tutorial. it's in the "tutorial" directory.

It's kind of odd though because it makes use of the "pgtools" weirdness.
"Where does this "pgcnx" come from?"  It also doesn't seem to do much in
the way of handling results of queries.  An example of the use of large
objects would be cool.  Seems to be underdocumented in the regular
pgsql documentation as well though.

Sean
-- 
 Examine what is said, not who speaks.  (Arabian Proverb)
Sean Reifschneider, Inimitably Superfluous <jafo at tummy.com>
tummy.com - Linux Consulting since 1995. Qmail, KRUD, Firewalls, Python



From skip at mojam.com  Sat Jan  6 15:44:45 2001
From: skip at mojam.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2001 14:44:45 -0600 (CST)
Subject: How to store the contents of a file into a list?
In-Reply-To: <3a576f75.41616667@news.skynet.be>
References: <3a576f75.41616667@news.skynet.be>
Message-ID: <14935.33725.27422.32928@beluga.mojam.com>

    Daniel> I've been trying to do the same when reading these records from
    Daniel> a file (The file contains 2 lines : 
    Daniel> rec11,rec12,rec13
    Daniel> rec21,rec22,rec23)

    Daniel> What needs to be done to obtain the same [nested] l1 as above?

Try this:

  f = open("/tmp/recordfile")
  l1 = []
  for line in f.readlines():
    line = line.rstrip()	# remove trailing line ending
    l1.append(line.split(",")

The split at the commas maps the string "rec11,rec12,rec13" into the list
["rec11","rec12","rec13"].  That list gets appended to l1 which winds up as
a list of lists of strings instead of a list of strings.

Cheers,

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at mojam.com)
Support the Mojam.com Affiliates Program: http://www.mojam.com/affl/
(847)971-7098



From claird at starbase.neosoft.com  Tue Jan 30 10:29:39 2001
From: claird at starbase.neosoft.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: 30 Jan 2001 09:29:39 -0600
Subject: Threading woes
References: <v%nc6.3118$xn.831173@typhoon2.ba-dsg.net>
Message-ID: <F64170D1E7285CD6.0B37E7CE133ADA6C.47E4C752DC518761@lp.airnews.net>

In article <v%nc6.3118$xn.831173 at typhoon2.ba-dsg.net>,
David Allen <s2mdalle at titan.vcu.edu> wrote:
			.
			.
			.
>Now my question.  I'm trying to implement a STOP button.
>When the user clicks it, the program should stop what
>it's doing *IMMEDIATELY* and go idle.  Currently
			.
			.
			.
>threads or signal yourself, so I'm pretty much at
>a dead end with the threading solution with regard
>to the STOP functionality.
>
>So why not fork() processes, and then have them 
>communicate via sockets or something?  For interruption,
>I can just signal the download thread with SIGINT!
>This would work, but fork is UNIX only, and I need portability
>to at least windows.  Macs aren't that important
>right now.  I'm developing on linux by default.
			.
			.
			.
>- It is interruptable at any moment.  (i.e. if 
>networking is down, and I call gethostbyname or recv, the
>user doesn't have to wait for gethostbyname to fail
>miserably before actually stopping)
			.
			.
			.
You're stuck.  We're all stuck.  There is no
currently satisfying solution for this.

MacOS supports co-operative concurrency.  There
are a lot of situations where you canNOT retrieve
control from the OS, no matter what you do.

Win* is feasible, barely.  There's at least one
extension, I believe, that uses native threads to
give you what you're after.  It's not part of the
Python "core"; one of us needs to confirm that it
works reliably.
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at NeoSoft.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://starbase.neosoft.com/~claird/home.html


From john at veidit.net  Fri Jan 12 21:02:06 2001
From: john at veidit.net (John Angelmo)
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 02:02:06 GMT
Subject: webbrowser, tk and htmlgen
Message-ID: <3A5FB70B.CCB7C49B@veidit.net>

Hello

I have a small python scritps that fixes a login with my ISP.

Well the script works but now I want to make it a bit more userfriendly.

I'm planning to use the webbrowser module in a tk window.
I have tried to find some good examples of webbrowser but I can't find
any.
Does anyone have any good place with nice examples?

Thanks in advance

John


From webzinc at my-deja.com  Tue Jan 23 20:18:34 2001
From: webzinc at my-deja.com (webzinc at my-deja.com)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 01:18:34 GMT
Subject: using IE5 HTML DOM parser in python ?
References: <93kpp4$51p$1@reader1.imaginet.fr> <93lb1h0227f@news1.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <94lah4$v9c$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

Not a Python girl myself, but you might be interested to know that
WebZinc is an ActiveX DLL that can be used to manipulate Web pages and
parse any HTML.

Forms, tables, paragraphs, pictures, links and more - download an
evaluation copy of www.webzinc.net

Hope this may help in some way!  ;)

--- Jenny x

In article <93lb1h0227f at news1.newsguy.com>,
  "Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote:
> "Gilles Lenfant" <glenfant at equod.com.nospam> wrote in message
> news:93kpp4$51p$1 at reader1.imaginet.fr...
> > Hi,
> >
> > Seems that it is not easy to parse ugly HTML (not "well formed" in
XML
> > wording) with the htmllib.
> > I can do it easily with the IE5 included HTML DOM parser but it's in
> > javascript and the script is to be included in the HTML.
> > Did any of U succeed to use it from python and win32 extensions.
>
> Maybe I don't understand your problem correctly.  The HTML DOM
> that comes with IE5 is COM/Automation (accessible from JScript,
> but definitely not just from there) -- easy to access from Python
> (with 'makepy' support, ideally).  And I don't understand "the script
> is to be included in the HTML" together with your need to parse the
> HTML itself -- if you need to parse scripts in arbitrary scripting
> languages, that IS indeed difficult (and HTML DOM has no help for
> that)... but why would you need that?
>
> Alex
>
>


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From andrew at erlenstar.demon.co.uk  Wed Jan 17 23:17:13 2001
From: andrew at erlenstar.demon.co.uk (Andrew Gierth)
Date: 18 Jan 2001 04:17:13 +0000
Subject: How to close all files between fork and exec?
References: <yv27l3upooj.fsf@lionsp093.lion-ag.de> <944o0k$pi0$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <87zogp7auu.fsf@erlenstar.demon.co.uk>

>>>>> "Donn" == Donn Cave <donn at u.washington.edu> writes:

 Donn> Unfortunately it looks to me like no one has ever put
 Donn> getdtablesize() in Python.

does it have sysconf(_SC_OPEN_MAX)?

-- 
Andrew.

comp.unix.programmer FAQ: see <URL: http://www.erlenstar.demon.co.uk/unix/>
                           or <URL: http://www.whitefang.com/unix/>


From hamish_lawson at yahoo.co.uk  Thu Jan 25 04:19:02 2001
From: hamish_lawson at yahoo.co.uk (Hamish Lawson)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 09:19:02 GMT
Subject: urllib.urlretrieve("http://free.bsdshell.net/")
References: <mailman.980354711.2588.python-list@python.org> <94oiss$1hm2$1@news1.simtel.ru>
Message-ID: <94or22$vhc$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

> Try to run 'telnet yoursite',

Note that you'll have to include the port number as an argument:

    telnet free.bsdshell.net 80

> then blindly type 'GET /index.html'

You may have to include the HTTP version to get a proper response (you
can also just use / to get the default page without having to guess
whether it's actually called index.html):

    GET / HTTP/1.0

Hamish Lawson


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From rwklee at home.com  Sat Jan 27 16:55:33 2001
From: rwklee at home.com (Rick Lee)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 21:55:33 GMT
Subject: Tkinter vs wxPython: your opinions?
References: <mailman.980510534.2541.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3A7343D4.301A2032@home.com>

I probably misled quite a few readers with what I meant by "description of an
object's attributes".  I don't mean an object's geometry attributes.  I mean the
object of interest to the user, for example, a person's wallet, whose possible
description could be:

- compartments and pockets; within each, either bank notes, or cards; for bank
notes, number of notes and denomination of each; for each card, thickness,
weight, colour.

I like the GUI toolkit to be able to take an description like this, and generate
a nice looking window to display this structured information; as well as to
allow the user to change data, including, in the above example, adding/deleting
compartments, bank notes, cards.


Christian Tanzer wrote:

> rwklee at home.com wrote :
>
> > Thank you all for your thoughtful posts. On reflection, I would say my
> > greatest need would be:
> >
> > - being able to build data entry screens on the fly from a description of
> > an object's attributes
> >
> > I am still very naive about this; but I would have thought the need for
> > this feature would crop up frequently.  I wonder why it doesn't seem to be
> > featured in the popular toolkits.  Maybe it is extremely easy for anyone to
> > build, in which case would someone care to post a working example.  Thanks.
>
> Sorry, I can't easily post working code.
>
> But your problem is easy to solve if you use a good geometry manager,
> like Tkinter's pack or grid (grid being my preferred solution).
>
> For Tkinter, it looks like:
>
>     body    = Frame (...)
>     entries = []
>     for entry_desc in ?description of an object's attributes? :
>         label = Label (master = body, text = entry_desc.name, ...)
>         entry = Entry (master = body, ...)
>         label.grid (column = 0, row = len (entries), ...)
>         entry.grid (column = 1, row = len (entries), ...)
>         entries.append (entry)
>     body.grid_columnconfigure (0, weight = 1, minsize = ...)
>     body.grid_columnconfigure (1, weight = 5, minsize = ...)
>     boy.pack (...)
>
> Shouldn't be any harder for a different toolkit, as long as it
> offers decent geometry management.
>
> --
> Christian Tanzer                                         tanzer at swing.co.at
> Glasauergasse 32                                       Tel: +43 1 876 62 36
> A-1130 Vienna, Austria                                 Fax: +43 1 877 66 92



From sholden at holdenweb.com  Thu Jan  4 08:01:41 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 08:01:41 -0500
Subject: list operation '+= ' or assignment problem
References: <fXV46.83554$A06.2935629@news1.frmt1.sfba.home.com>
Message-ID: <Rw_46.700$Gd1.76874@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com>

JoeSmith <JoeSmith at BogusAddress.bogusaddress.com> wrote in message
news:fXV46.83554$A06.2935629 at news1.frmt1.sfba.home.com...
>
> I unexpectedly get l1 modified by doing "l += l2" (see example 1).  I take
> it is because l and l1 point to the same object.  If I use the string type
> instead of the list type, I don't get l2 modified.  I guess that list
> assignment is an assignment of the reference to the object and it does not
> copy the object.  Where as a string object gets copied (see example 2).
>
Correct.  Lists are mutable, strings are not.

> example 1:
> >>> l1 = [0, 1]
> >>> print l1
> [0, 1]
> >>> l2 = [2, 3]
> >>> l = l1
> >>> print l1
> [0, 1]
> >>> print l
> [0, 1]
> >>> l += l2

The statement above modifies the object bound to l in-place, which means
that any other variables bound to the same object see the change reflected
in their values too.

> >>> print l1
> [0, 1, 2, 3]

As expected.

> >>> print l
> [0, 1, 2, 3]
> >>>
>
> example 2:
> >>> s1 = "1"
> >>> s2 = "2"
> >>> s = s1
> >>> s += s2

Since strings are not mutable, the object bound to s cannot be modified
in-place, so a new string is created and bound to the name s.  Other names'
bindings remain unchanged.

> >>> print s1
> 1
> >>>
>
As expected.

There was a lot of discussion about the semantics of augmented assignment
maybe three months ago.  I argued that this behavior was counter-intuitive
to beginners.  It appeared that this was just a repetition of the arguments
when the behavior was originally discussed, and that augmented assignment
was always intended to allow in-place modification of mutable objects as an
optimization.  The BDFL has spoken!

regards
 Steve






From gtalvola at nameconnector.com  Fri Jan 26 17:39:09 2001
From: gtalvola at nameconnector.com (Geoff Talvola)
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 17:39:09 -0500
Subject: Tkinter vs wxPython: your opinions?
References: <3A6F899F.E164F628@home.com> <94sq0d$f8l$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <3A71FC8D.D674CD84@NameConnector.com>

cbarker at jps.net wrote:

> The downside of the close link between the C++ and Python is that there
> are a number of things that are not very Pythonesque. The most obvous
> thing that comes to mind is event tables. I find myself writing three
> lines of code for what could be done with one (asd far as I can tell) an
> example (from the demo)
>
> ID_ABOUT_MENU = 200
> help_menu.Append(ID_ABOUT_MENU,
>                  "&About",
>                  "More information About this program")
> EVT_MENU(self, ID_ABOUT_MENU, self.OnAbout)
>
> When would I want a menu item , without an function attached to the
> EVT_MENU ? IF i want tou use a name to label the itemI need another line
> of code to do that.
>
> I'd like to see:
> help_menu.Append(ID_ABOUT_MENU,
>                  "&About",
>                  "More information About this program",
>                  callback = self.OnAbout)
>
> That would make a lot more sense, but frankly, it's really just a small
> annoyance once you get used to it.

Seems like it would be pretty easy to write a set of wrappers around wxPython to make it feel much more Pythonic.  Your example is a good one where a simple wrapper class could make it much more natural to use.

Ah, I see that you suggested the same thing later on in your message.  Well, here's another voice saying that it would be a good thing...

--


- Geoff Talvola
  Parlance Corporation
  gtalvola at NameConnector.com




From richard_chamberlainREMOVE at ntlworld.com  Wed Jan 17 02:13:15 2001
From: richard_chamberlainREMOVE at ntlworld.com (Richard Chamberlain)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 07:13:15 -0000
Subject: how to run a DOS program without getting a box?
References: <3A64E195.ECA51312@cableinet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <Kwb96.3026$3N1.69942@news2-win.server.ntlworld.com>

There is a file called pythonw.exe which is python without the command box.

Richard

Richard Dobson <rwd at cableinet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:3A64E195.ECA51312 at cableinet.co.uk...
> Hi all,
>
> I have tried both os.system() and the exec~ calls, and they all cause
> the Windows console to display when running a command-line program (in
> my case, to play a soundfile I don't need to see the screen messages).
> Is there a way to suppress this? Other languages, such as tcl/tk and GNU
> Octave manage this fine. I'm using Python 2.0 under Windows2000 (sp1),
> with IDLE.
>
>
> Richard Dobson
>
>
>
>
> --
> Test your DAW with my Soundcard Attrition Page!
> http://www.bath.ac.uk/~masrwd (LU: 3rd July 2000)
> CDP: http://www.bath.ac.uk/~masjpf/CDP/CDP.htm (LU: 23rd February 2000)




From sdm7g at virginia.edu  Thu Jan 18 15:31:20 2001
From: sdm7g at virginia.edu (Steven D. Majewski)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 15:31:20 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Slicing and offsets
In-Reply-To: <945bvp$thj$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.NXT.4.21.0101181522070.253-100000@localhost.virginia.edu>


On Thu, 18 Jan 2001 gustabares at my-deja.com wrote:

>  I got a newbie question here...
> 
> >>> S = "spam"
> >>> S[0]
> 's'
> >>> S[1:]
> 'pam'
> >>>
> 
> Why is it that when I slice S it's no longer the 0 offset anymore, but
> now it is 1?
> 
> >>> S[0:]
> 'spam'
> 
> Thanks for any help and sorry for the simple question:)
> 

Not sure that I understand the question, but one of the docs 
suggests that you think of the indexes as separating the elements


	0 1 2 3 4
	|s|p|a|m|
       -4-3-2-1

( Thus there's another opportunity for Tim to complain about no -0 ! )

Indexing gives you the element immediately after the index:

"spam"[1] == "spam"[-3] == "p" 
"spam"[4] --> Index Error 

Slicing gives you the elements between the indexes:

"spam"[1:3] == "spam"[-3:-1] == "pa" 


-- Steve Majewski






From scarblac at pino.selwerd.nl  Wed Jan 10 04:26:23 2001
From: scarblac at pino.selwerd.nl (Remco Gerlich)
Date: 10 Jan 2001 09:26:23 GMT
Subject: Grabbing a command's output was Re: dns reverse look up with python ?
References: <93ecvp$v21$02$1@news.t-online.com> <93fe1k$mh4$0@216.39.151.169> <nNM66.1678$_e7.114504@news2.atl>
Message-ID: <slrn95oaf9.5ad.scarblac@pino.selwerd.nl>

Joel Ricker <joejava at dragonat.net> wrote in comp.lang.python:
> When I saw this question posted last night, I started to answer it the same
> way I did it in Perl.  I needed to do a reverse lookup myself in a project I
> was doing.  I couldn't make heads or tails of the perl modules that can do
> this so I finally figured out how to do this as a os command with nslookup.
> Basically I was looking up the IP address reported by the web server to see
> if its me or not and lock out everyone else for the time being.  With perl
> you do system commands like this:
> 
> $Result = `nslookup 127.0.0.1`
> 
> and $Result will contain the results of the command.  But what I found in
> the Python reference was os.system("command") which returned only a value
> that reports if the command was successful or not.  What is the Python way
> of running command and have the actual results of the command returned?

os.popen("command")

returns a filelike object that you can read from.

-- 
Remco Gerlich


From hnowak at cuci.nl  Sat Jan 27 17:20:22 2001
From: hnowak at cuci.nl (Hans & Mari)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 23:20:22 +0100
Subject: [Off topic] allowed to put Python material on the Web?
In-Reply-To: <3a730931.31998180@news.skynet.be>
Message-ID: <200101272221.f0RML3t31740@hera.cuci.nl>

On 27 Jan 01, at 17:51, Daniel wrote:

> Dear newgroupreaders,
> 
> As a Python newbie, I've been collecting lots of questions and answers
> from this newsgroup.  It contains stuff not readily found in the many
> good FAQ from the net.
> 
> Before setting up a new site, I would like to ask if it is allowed to
> put my collection of questions and answers from this newsgroup (which
> helped me a lot) on my site,so everyone can enjoy/learn from it
> without going to the d?j? palace.

> Thus, before starting the time-consuming task to create this new site,
> I'd like to know if putting this collection on the Web is actually
> legal/allowed.

I had a similar site; because of lack of time, I stopped maintaining it. 
All my snippets went to the Python knowledge base/FAQTS 
(http://python.faqts.com). Before you go to the trouble of setting up a new 
site from scratch, it may be good to look at this FAQTS site. Maybe you 
would want to contribute to it rather than setting up and maintaining your 
own site, but that is just a suggestion.

As for the legal stuff, I always assumed that I could freely dig into 
newsgroup messages for interesting code. This may or may not be right; 
nobody has complained about it, though, and I had quite a few authors in my 
collection. I did include the name of the original poster/author with each 
snippet, so it would be clear who held the copyright to the code.

HTH,

--Hans Nowak (zephyrfalcon at hvision.nl)
You call me a masterless man. You are wrong. I am my own master.
May Grandma Moses introduce Tipper Gore to your owl's nest!



From fgeiger at datec.at  Fri Jan 26 09:48:30 2001
From: fgeiger at datec.at (Franz GEIGER)
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 15:48:30 +0100
Subject: Umlauts revisited: Now they prevent program from running
References: <94rt05$tbe$1@newsreaderg1.core.theplanet.net>
Message-ID: <94s2mm$1h$1@newsreaderg1.core.theplanet.net>

Wow! Both of yours - Alex and Michael - did the trick! Thanks a lot!

Is there another trick to switch globally to this encoding? Or do I have to
check for '\xyz' characters and then encode them?

For now I do a try. If an exception is catched I call the encode method.

Is this the way doing it _always_ if umlauts could come across my way?
That'd be cumbersome because the German language is teeming with umlauts
(o.k., carried it too far ;-))

Best regards
Franz

"Franz GEIGER" <fgeiger at datec.at> wrote in message
news:94rt05$tbe$1 at newsreaderg1.core.theplanet.net...
> I pull data out of an Excel sheet using DAO. There are field values
> containing text strings. Everything works fine until a text reads e.g.
> "St?ck".
>
> After stopping before the exception
>
> "UnicodeError: ASCII encoding error: ordinal not in range(128)"
>
> occurs I display the field in the interactive window of PythonWin
> (ActiveState 2.0 on NT4) by simply typing "fld.Value".
>
> It displays u'St\374ck'.
>
> Conversion into a Python string by applying print or str() yields:
>
> "Traceback (innermost last):
>   File "<interactive input>", line 1, in ?
> UnicodeError: ASCII encoding error: ordinal not in range(128)"
>
> Any idea how to overcome this?
>
> Best regards
> Franz GEIGER
>
>
>




From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Jan 30 02:47:46 2001
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 02:47:46 -0500
Subject: How to extend sys.path on Win9x permanently?
References: <3a75ef9c.11194652@news.muenster.de>
Message-ID: <3A7671A2.30478E8C@engcorp.com>

Martin Bless wrote:
> 
> Python20, Win98, PythonWin
> 
> (1) I'd like   Python.exe/DOS    AND   Python in PythonWin   to start
> up  with an extended sys.path, having my own lib added,  as if a
> sys.path.append('c:\\mylib') had already been performed.
> How can I add the extra path permanently?

Note certain, but it's likely that site.py is imported even under
PythonWin.  If that's true, and it should be easy to test, just
create a file in your Python directory with an extension .PTH,
and place within it the name of the directory you want added
to sys.path.

For example, in my directory n:\a\python, I have a file 'lib.pth'
that contains the single line 'n:\lib\python'.  Every time I 
run a script, it adds this to the end of my sys.path.

Beats editing the registry, too.

> (2) Here's what sys.path is on my machine. Where is this defined?
> Registry?
>  *.ini?
> Hard coded?

Yes, registry.  Grim but possibly the only place PythonWin can
find it.  Not sure.

> (3) I'd hate having to put something like "set $PYTHONPATH=..." into
> AUTOSTART.BAT, since DOS environment space is very limited.

Doesn't your Windows support adding lines to config.sys, such as:
   shell=c:\command.com /p /e:4096
which would extend environment space to 4K?


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Thu Jan 18 03:44:16 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 09:44:16 +0100
Subject: python compiled to native in less than a year?
References: <kcF86.6006$J%.594457@news.flash.net> <Pine.GSO.4.21.0101151106200.7702-100000@z.glue.umd.edu> <8pF86.6015$J%.595435@news.flash.net> <0luc6toovfccbqspkvc0dkqkuc5dck7u51@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <946coc130tl@news2.newsguy.com>

"Tim Roberts" <timr at probo.com> wrote in message
news:0luc6toovfccbqspkvc0dkqkuc5dck7u51 at 4ax.com...
> "scotth" <slhath at flash.net> wrote:
> >
> >Since Python will be one of the .NET languages, it will get compiled like
> >all the other .NET languages.  Whatever the problems, ActiveState/MS
> >have/are going to over come it if my info is correct.
>
> Where did you get your information?  Do you have a URL?  The other
repliers
> are delighting in nitpicking and Microsoft bashing, but no one seems to
> have questioned the basic premise.
>
> If I understand the .NET concept correctly, any COMPILED language will be
> compiled to IL.  However, I don't think there is anything to prevent a
> language from being interpreted.  That is, Python might survive in the
.NET
> framework as source text.

There's nothing stopping some piece of .NET code from "interpreting"
any piece of text whatsoever, but that wouldn't let that piece of text
be a "first-class citizen" in the .NET framework -- it could not be
used to implement classes other components inherit from, etc.  Compiling
the whatever-text-it-is down to IL is the 'royal road' of .NET integration,
and the one ActiveState is taking with their Python.NET, whose beta you
can download from their site.  Of course, that IL can perfectly well be
replete with calls to a 'runtime for my special funky language' assembly
of components -- that's a component-internal implementation decision
with .NET does not interfere with -- but what happens at a component's
interface *is* constrained by .NET interoperability rules.

The 'basic premise' that 'compiled down to IL' necessarily means anything
much from the point of view of performance IS worth questioning.  A piece
of IL that's little more than a sequence of calls to a runtime assembly
(an indirect-threaded interpreter...) will probably have performance not
substantially different from other styles of bytecode-for-interpretation,
after all.  It seems to me that Python .NET isn't really taking this easy
way out (just as Jython doesn't), but aiming at a compromise between
feasibility AND some potential performance improvement; but I have not
looked deep enough into it to be certain.


Alex





From kirby at jamesk.freeserve.co.uk  Sat Jan 20 03:54:28 2001
From: kirby at jamesk.freeserve.co.uk (Kirby James)
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 08:54:28 -0000
Subject: Unicode, COM, Word Problem
Message-ID: <94bkik$1hs$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk>

Hi, I'm writing a script to read and summarize a large number of MS Word-97
documents, using the Python win32com.client. I open each file in turn (using
COM and Word) and select and copy the first 500 characters.
    myWord.Selection.HomeKey(constants.wdStory)
    myWord.Selection.MoveEnd(constants.wdCharacter, 500)
    sText = myWord.Selection.Text
However when I try to print sText (or write it to a file
output.write(sText)) I get an exception
    UnicodeError: ASCII encoding error: ordinal not in range(128)
I've tried using str
     sText2 = str(sText)
but still get the same error. I've tried wrapping the code with a try:
except UnicodeError: block but then the string is not converted. I'd
appreciate any pointers as to how I can 'clean-up' this string so that I can
output it as an 8-bit character string.
Tks Kirby




From edcjones at erols.com  Fri Jan 12 10:51:19 2001
From: edcjones at erols.com (Edward C. Jones)
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 10:51:19 -0500
Subject: A small suggestion for Python
Message-ID: <3A5F27F7.30268D9A@erols.com>

I have been programming in Python for several years. I still
occasionally make mistakes with functions (such as sort) that
return only "None". I suggest that functions like sort should
return either "Nothing" or nothing. "Nothing" would be exactly
like "None" except it can't be assigned. Whether "Nothing" or
nothing is used, the statement "x= y.sort()" would raise a
run-time Exception.

Thanks,
Ed Jones




From dubal at my-deja.com  Thu Jan 18 10:47:37 2001
From: dubal at my-deja.com (dubal at my-deja.com)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 15:47:37 GMT
Subject: curses, python20/152, RH70/62, postgresql problems
Message-ID: <94736k$9n7$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

Hello!

We are trying to develop a business application for dumb terminals
using python, curses and postgresql.

First we tried to install the Beopen Py20 rpm on RedHat 7.0. It looks
for some old libs and doesn't install.
We then tried to compile Py20 source on RH7. It gives some LONG_BIT
error and stops.
We then renamed /usr/bin/gcc to gcc.nogo and renamed kgcc to gcc and
tried to compile py20. Got same error.
Has anyone found out a way to get py20 to work on rh7?

We then read curses howto from python website and started developing
using the RH7's stock python152.
We found following problems:
1. Color cannot be used because the required vars are not available.
2. pads cannot be used as mentioned in howto.
3. getstr(x,y,len) does not allow the 3rd argument (length)
Can anyone please suggest any solutions to these?

We then abandon rh7 and go to rh62 with beopen py20 rpm installed.
getstr works fine. Color vars are available but we could not get the
color to work.
Latest (7.0.3) postgresql rpms are also installed on this machine.
This includes postgresql-python rpm supplied by postgres site.
When we try to connect to postgres from python, it produces following
warning:
Python C API version mismatch for module _pg:
This python has API version 1009, modules _pg has version 1007
How to fix this?
It seems to work after this warning. We checked the pygresql site. It
says their next version will have py20 compatibility. Do you think it
is ok to use _pg with the version mismatch?

I read somewhare that curses do not have colors, ncurses do. I see that
ncurses is preinstalled on rh. Does python have its own builtin curses
or does it use the one from separately installed rpm?
How to get the color to work?

Thanks for reading and TIA for any replies.
Dubal


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From erwin at andreasen.com  Thu Jan 25 14:57:26 2001
From: erwin at andreasen.com (Erwin S. Andreasen)
Date: 25 Jan 2001 19:57:26 GMT
Subject: "print" strange with Sybase module
References: <3A70163A.10D995@schlund.de>
Message-ID: <94q0f6$lu5$1@news.cybercity.dk>

On Thu, 25 Jan 2001 13:04:10 +0100, Carsten Gaebler wrote:

>The following simple program (sqltest.py) returns about 20 lines of
>Sybase output when run as "./sqltest.py". But if I say
>
>./sqltest.py | tee /tmp/test.txt
>
>there is no output and test.txt is empty. What's going wrong? It's
>Sybase module 0.10 with Python 2.0.

Does your Python interpreter exit before the very end with some fatal error? 
(do echo $? after you run the script without piping it to see the exit error
code, is it 0?).

You see, standard output which "print" prints to is line-buffered when
connected to a terminal (i.e. the buffer is flushed after each line). When it
is run through a pipe, it is block buffered (i.e. the buffer is flushed after
4096 bytes of output has been gathered).

If the program exits unexpectedly (sys.exit(1) or an exception is OK, but
os._exit(1) or a fatal signal isn't) these buffers will not be flushed.

I can't see a reason to why it would exit that way quietly, but unflushed
buffers are the first thing that comes to mind when seeing those symptoms.


PS: Any Python-users attending Linux Expo in Paris?

-- 
=======================================================================
<erwin at andreasen.com>           Herlev, Denmark       Software Designer
<URL:http://www.andreasen.org/>       <*>         LASAT^WEicon Networks
=======================================================================


From erno-news at erno.iki.fi  Wed Jan 24 11:18:36 2001
From: erno-news at erno.iki.fi (Erno Kuusela)
Date: 24 Jan 2001 18:18:36 +0200
Subject: urllib.urlretrieve("http://free.bsdshell.net/")
References: <mailman.980260650.3690.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ku3de89b4z.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>

In article <mailman.980260650.3690.python-list at python.org>, Oleg
Broytmann <phd at phd.pp.ru> writes:

| On Tue, 23 Jan 2001, Toby Dickenson wrote:
|| Is your browser using a proxy that python doesnt know about?

|    I tried urllib on different computers in two different networks.
| Probably the site does not like my User-Agent. Will try to find the reason.
|    Thanks.

i think the user-agent theory cannot work, because client
cannot have sent the user-agent string if the connect() call
faills with "connetion refused" :)

  -- erno


From ljohnson at resgen.com  Wed Jan 10 10:12:26 2001
From: ljohnson at resgen.com (Lyle Johnson)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 09:12:26 -0600
Subject: Should I join the PSA if it's "no longer relevant"?
References: <e6K66.1478$Oe.8826@tor-nn1.netcom.ca> <t5mvkjd31cvh98@corp.supernews.com> <93g3lj0e7c@news2.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <t5ouq0e6qefnc8@corp.supernews.com>

> Or OpenAve.Net (http://www.openave.net/) -- I have no experience
> with them yet, but (after a couple of months of reasonably plain
> sailing) I've found the service at sourceforge over the last month or
> so degrading near-unbearably, to the point that I'm seriously thinking
> of moving elsewhere unless they get their act together again.

Alex's point is well-taken. Note that I qualified my experiences with SF
with "good, so far" ;) Things have indeed been a mess for the last month or
so but there are some signs that they're getting their act together again.
I've got a new project that may make its debut later this month but I'm
biding my time to decide whether to host it at SourceForge. I appreciate the
link to OpenAve.Net in the event that I need an alternate option!





From steve at mercury.spvi.com  Fri Jan 26 07:29:09 2001
From: steve at mercury.spvi.com (Steve Spicklemire)
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 07:29:09 -0500 (EST)
Subject: proxy server
In-Reply-To: <3A714C40.D3E0D684@aon.at>
Message-ID: <200101261229.f0QCT9x11162@mercury.spvi.com>

http://www.zope.org/Members/hathawsh/tcpwatch/tcpwatch-0.9.tar.gz/view

-steve




From bodo1969 at my-deja.com  Wed Jan 17 07:03:58 2001
From: bodo1969 at my-deja.com (bodo1969 at my-deja.com)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 12:03:58 GMT
Subject: Electronic edition of 'The Standard Python Library'
References: <t7746.63812$59.17990421@news3.rdc1.on.home.com> <ZQf46.83865$df5.2962770@news1.crdva1.bc.home.com>
Message-ID: <9441nb$m7c$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

Same problems as above with me. Additionally, I
had several mail-contacts with the so-called
customer-support. It's simply ridiculous!

I bought an article from mightywords, my credit
card has been charged (so they got their money)
and I didn't get anything at all. That's virtual
street-robbery.

So the only thing one can do about this is spread
the advice: NEVER BUY @ FATBRAIN &
MIGHTYWORDS !!!!

Bodo


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From gerhard.nospam at bigfoot.de  Fri Jan 12 09:42:00 2001
From: gerhard.nospam at bigfoot.de (Gerhard =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 15:42:00 +0100
Subject: Calling Java Code from CPython (1.5.2 or 2.0)
References: <93mdfs$g7q$1@nyheter.chalmers.se>
Message-ID: <slrn95u6g3.no.gerhard.nospam@lilith.hqd-internal.de>

If all you want to do is access databases from Python, there are Python
modules to do that for all the major databases. Best look at the database
topic guide at www.python.org. No need for JDBC here.

If for any other reason you still need to connect Python and Java, I have to
disappoint you: there is no easy way to do this that I know of. For
difficult ways, there would be several:

- CORBA
- JNI (Java Native Interface): this requires that you write a C DLL that
  interfaces Java and you call into that DLL from Python code. Very awkward.
- JPython: I guess that there is a relatively simple way to talk from
  CPython to JPython/Jython, there is Pyro which presumably works with
  JPython, and IIRC there is something like Python RPC.

But a simple way I do not know :-(

Gerhard

On Fri, 12 Jan 2001 08:58:43 +0100, Dario Lopez-K?sten wrote:
>Hello!
>
><newbie class="clueless">
>
>I would like to know if it is possible to call Java Code from CPython (as in
>not Jython or JPython). I am asking this, because i'd like to be able to
>experiment using JDBC in conjunction with python; specifically, I want to
>use Zope and JDBC drivers on Solaris/Linux and that "other" operating system
>to connect to Oracle, MIMER and some other DBMSs we have.
>
>There is one JDBC database adapter for JPython, but I don't know if it is
>possible to mix JPython/Jython with CPython.
>
></newbie>
>
>I have searched the archives but all references to Java and Python end up in
>Jython/JPython.
>
>I might add that I am a new Python user and haven't really had time to do
>anythin usefull so far; therefore, any help is appreciated.
-- 
mail:   gerhard <at> bigfoot <dot> de
web:    http://highqualdev.com


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Wed Jan  3 06:24:33 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2001 12:24:33 +0100
Subject: HELP! win32com, COM, Invoke problem
References: <92rv3q$asi$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <3A51EDBF.3000808@ActiveState.com> <92tmjr$oj1$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <3A5274F3.3070001@ActiveState.com> <92u2u4$2vi$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <92v27e02jia@news2.newsguy.com>

"TB" <tblin at my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:92u2u4$2vi$1 at nnrp1.deja.com...
>
>
> > You may have trouble with an OCX.  Python doesn't really support them.
> > Pythonwin does to some degree - check out pywin\demos\ocx.
>
> Well, it sounds like a naive question but what does it take to have
> python support OCX? the reason here is that if it doesn't provide a
> drop-in replace VBScript/JScript, it's hard to have the management's
> (sorry, you know that)  buy-in on using it. Plus, it's nice to have this
> feature anyway.

Being a "proper and complete Active/X Control Container" is a daunting
task indeed -- Active/X Controls (aka OCX's) can choose to implement,
totally or partially, each of a zillion interfaces, and the 'host' (the
'control container') is supposed to adjust to each and every variation.

The Microsoft System Journal, issue of 12/99, has a nice article on
(some of) what it takes to do that for ATL -- have a look at (one line!):
http://www.microsoft.com/msj/defaulttop.asp?page=/msj/1299/containment/conta
inmenttop.htm
if you read enough C++ to follow it -- you can also download the
VBlite.zip sources for the "full-blown control container" that
Dharma Shukla and Chris Sells develop in the article (but it doesn't
really address *all* possible issues).

VBScript and JScript don't even TRY to "be control containers" -- it
would be silly for either of them to do so: in Microsoft's architecture,
their role is well-defined as "Active/X Scripting Language" engines.
Control containment is not the job of a language, but of the framework
or application that embeds the language.  The language's role is to
let one *script* controls that are hosted on the "forms" (or however
you want to call them) of the application -- receive events, set and
get properties, call methods.

The best reusable and redistributable control-container for most uses
is (IMHO) Internet Explorer.  If you need the controls to be visually
part of some other existing window/form/dialog/whatever, it's far
simpler to have the 'whatever' support just the bare minimum needed to
host the IE subset you need, and ember the generic OCX's into the IE
subset.  IE's *very* well-behaved, far easier to host properly than
most other OCX's you'll find around -- and also hosts Active Documents
(another dauntint task to reimplement), Java applets, whatever.  It's
truly a fully general, reusable framework, rich, easy to use, well
documented.

If for some political reason you cannot require "a reasonably updated
IE version" as a part of your applications' prereq's, your life is
much harder (but would be absolutely NO easier if your preferred
language was VBScript or JScript!!!).  "VBLite" can be seen as an
option in that case (I'm not sure about the legal status of it as
a redistributable binary, though -- do check if you plan on that!).

MFC dialogs, VB forms, MS Office products, and, I assume, some of
their competitors' equivalents (Delphi, StarOffice, Mozilla, Opera,
...?), all may provide other suitable replacements depending on your
deployment strategies.  Pythonwin (somewhat based on MFC, if I recall
correctly) and wxWindows may also fit in this array of choices.  But,
really, if you can standardize on the array of technologies that are
"already deployed for you" by any recent IE release, your life WILL
be a lot simpler.


> I tried to read something about COM and etc, but the info I'm getting is
> just overwhelmingly complex. could you shed some light on how does VB
> use OCX? and why it's different from other things (that win32com that
> currently support) ?

VB Forms may be the second-best Active/X Control Containers Microsoft
makes, right after Internet Explorer.  In these cases, sources are not
distributed, so finding out in detail how they work needs a lot of
reverse engineering (in jurisdictions where reverse engineering is
legal, of course; you just can't do it elsewhere).  "VBLite" (and all
of ATL that it rests on) and MFC _are_ distributed with sources, so
in these cases finding out all of the excruciating details just takes
a lot of patience and competence with C++, VStudio's debugger, etc.

But anyway, summarizing: win32com does not implement 'forms' that one
could use as (even a start of) proper "Active/X Control Containers";
it's just not its job to duplicate this kind of functionality.  It
is, in some part, done in Pythonwin (which IS a framework for general
development of Windows GUI's), etc.


> Any plan to support OCX in win32com in the future? I'd like to help but
> I guess I have a lot to learn even before I can make sense of what
> you've done. Any suggest reading to begin with? I'm more of a
> unix/perl/java guy and do some VB but never went seriously into C++ on
> Windows.

As long as the functionality is there, easily accessible, why would
one desire that it be duplicated among several disparate packages --
why should win32com implement the general-purpose GUI portions needed
to properly host any and all Active/X controls?

> Do you think it makes sense to manually write some wrappers to solve
> this immediate problem? any idea how to do that (w/o going into C++ and
> pyd) ?

Instantiate whatever part you need of Internet Explorer -- that gives
you all you could ever possibly need.  If you need fine-grained control
of user-interface's look-and-feel, you can host MSHTML in diverse ways;
MSDN has a _lot_ of information on that, although it's generally
expressed in terms of VB or C++ use.  But for most programming tasks,
http://msdn.microsoft.com/workshop/author/hta/overview/htaoverview.asp
(the "HTML Applications" concept) are, for example, one great deployment
possibility -- check out http://www.webreference.com/js/column39/, which
gives a good, thorough tutorial introduction, albeit centered on using
JScript as the specific scripting language (but by installing win32all,
Python becomes usable in any active-scripting scenario where JScript
might be considered).


Alex





From not.this at seebelow.org  Thu Jan 18 22:50:09 2001
From: not.this at seebelow.org (Grant Griffin)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 21:50:09 -0600
Subject: brace nanny
References: <93nsfk02gdu@drn.newsguy.com> <93pmic$45r$1@verence.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3A67B971.C5981ABF@seebelow.org>

Paul Wright wrote:
...
> Other people have already said that both Vim and GNU indent will
> re-format C code to correct indentation, if that's a possible solution.
> Vim will spot mismatched braces and turn them red, but AFIAK will not
> spot inconsistent indentation.

Thanks, Paul (and others).

I already had both Vim and Indent in hand, but didn't think of them. 
Using Indent for this is a simple (but clever) idea that I just hadn't
thought of which will serve the purpose, even though it isn't quite what
I asked for.

one-man's-paradigm-shift-is-another-man's-head-slap-<ouch>-ly y'rs,

=g2
-- 
_____________________________________________________________________

Grant R. Griffin                                       g2 at dspguru.com
Publisher of dspGuru                           http://www.dspguru.com
Iowegian International Corporation            http://www.iowegian.com


From scastell at sas.upenn.edu  Mon Jan 15 17:22:23 2001
From: scastell at sas.upenn.edu (Steven M. Castellotti)
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 17:22:23 -0500
Subject: Interacting with a spawned ssh session?
Message-ID: <3A63781F.D8CDB6DC@sas.upenn.edu>

	I'm having two problems with one function.

	I want to be able to spawn an ssh session to another computer, and then
interact with that session through python commands. (this is on a linux
system)

	The first problem is feeding the password to ssh; I believe that it
wants it's own tty.

	The second problem, and currently the more pressing one, is how to best
send commands to that ssh session, and read back/parse the results.

	I've looked at the pty module, but must not be understanding its
functionality, as I can't get a pty.fork()'d file descriptor to allow me
to perform commands. I'd like to keep away from popen (for security
reasons, though I'm not certain any other method could be considered
secure either), but am still having trouble interacting with the spawned
process (in this case a telnet session; for simplicity).

	Can anyone provide me with, or point me to, any examples of how to use
python to do roughly what I'm describing?

Thanks in advance.


-- 
Steve Castellotti
Systems Programmer
School of Arts and Sciences, University of Pennsylvania


From fredrik at effbot.org  Tue Jan  9 04:49:28 2001
From: fredrik at effbot.org (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2001 09:49:28 GMT
Subject: escape sequences and string comparisons
References: <93cboe$ctj$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <slrn95jfdi.2b2.scarblac@pino.selwerd.nl> <93el06$aab$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <I8B66.4854$Qb7.681966@newsb.telia.net>

jkndeja at my-deja.com wrote:
> whereas I'd want this character to be escaped "\]" in order to be used
> within an RE.

in a previous post, you wanted the character to be escaped
so you could "compare strings with potentially non-alphanumeric
characters"

since that doesn't really make sense (Python can compare non-
alphanumeric characters all by itself), maybe you should explain
what you're really trying to do here...

> Python doesn't seem to follow this. I will investigate further...

it's all in the fine manual:

    http://www.python.org/doc/current/ref/strings.html

    "2.4.1 String literals"

    "Unlike Standard C, all unrecognized escape sequences
    are left in the string unchanged, i.e., the backslash is
    left in the string"

(note that string literals are the things you write in your
Python source code.  They're converted to string values
according to the rules in section 2.4.1.  The strings you
pass to "re" are string values, and are converted to regular
expressions according to the rules in the library reference)

Cheers /F




From donn at u.washington.edu  Wed Jan 10 20:29:13 2001
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: 11 Jan 2001 01:29:13 GMT
Subject: How to check on process time?
References: <93ie2i$bse$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <93iip0$jhu$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu> <93isdq$fhr$1@mail.pl.unisys.com>
Message-ID: <93j299$s8a$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>

Quoth <phys137 at mailcity.com>:
| long time ago i used sun's call 'getresourceusage' to obtain process times
| on bsd - some other unixes had similar calls or not

You might be thinking of something like this:
   import resources
   resource.getrlimit(resource.RUSAGE_SELF)

Which is reasonably portable, but doesn't meet the requirement because
it can get usage for only the current process, or its children.

	Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu


From tim.one at home.com  Mon Jan 15 16:39:00 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 16:39:00 -0500
Subject: Beginner's question - class definition
In-Reply-To: <3a6366a8.4537644@news.ruralnet.net.au>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCOENHIIAA.tim.one@home.com>

> Can anyone explain please why the following definition ( from the
> Python documentation)
>
> class Complex:
> 	def _init_(self, realpart, imagpart):
> 		self.r = realpart
> 		self.i = imagpart
>
> ... [doesn't work] ...

A class constructor's name is "__init__", not "_init_".  That is, you're
missing an underscore on each side.  Try this:

>>> class Complex:
	def __init__(self, realpart, imagpart):
		self.r = realpart
		self.i = imagpart

>>> Complex(1,2)
<__main__.Complex instance at 00B3970C>
>>>

easy-mistake-to-make-once-but-hard-to-make-twice-ly y'rs  - tim




From emile at fenx.com  Sat Jan 27 13:55:24 2001
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 10:55:24 -0800
Subject: Avoiding the __repr__ call or protecting an instance from evaluation  URG. please
References: <db367t8ed4ktadbdmf71lgk1t8h3p3i4lk@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <94v5ld$f2kci$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>

You're probably passing the instance in a manner that repr
is invoked.  Can you post a sample showing the problem?
Normal passing would be something like:

class test:
    def __repr__(self):
        return "class repr"
def func(a):
    print type(a), a

t = test()
func(t)

HTH

--

Emile van Sebille
emile at fenx.com
-------------------


"Fernando Rodr?guez" <spamers at must.die> wrote in message
news:db367t8ed4ktadbdmf71lgk1t8h3p3i4lk at 4ax.com...
> Hi!
>
> I have a class whose __repr__ method returns a string.
Whenever I pass
> an instance of this class to a function, what the function
gets is the result
> of __repr__. Most of the time this is OK, but under
certain circumstances I
> also need to make sure that a function receives an
instance of the class, and
> the the string that __repr__ returns.
>
> How can I do this? O:-)
>
> PS This is my __repr__ method:
> def __repr__( self ):
>         return ",v" + str(self.tag) +", "
>
>
>
>
> //-----------------------------------------------
> // Fernando Rodriguez Romero
> //
> // frr at mindless dot com
> //------------------------------------------------






From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sat Jan 20 06:58:31 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 12:58:31 +0100
Subject: How to chop list n-elements at a time
References: <94bjs8$5nn$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <94bum50k4u@news2.newsguy.com>

<cpsoct at my-deja.com> wrote in message news:94bjs8$5nn$1 at nnrp1.deja.com...
    [snip]
> am wondering how to make the tool more general so that i could say:
>
> x=[1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9]
>
> bunch(x,1) --> [[1], [2], [3], [4], [5], [6], [7], [8], [9]]
> bunch(x, 2) --> [[1,2], [3,4], [5,6], [7,8], [9, None]
> bunch(x, 3) --> [[1,2,3], [4,5,6], [7,8,9]]
> bunch(x, 4) --> [1,2,3,4], [5,6,7,8] [9, None, None, None]]

def bunch(list, N):
    templist = list + [None]*N
    result = []
    for i in range(0, len(list),N):
        result.append(templist[i:i+N])
    return result

or, more concisely:

def bunch(list, N):
    templist = list + [None]*N
    return [templist[i:i+N] for i in range(0, len(list), N)]


The 'templist' is only needed because you want the last sublist
padded with copies of None to the specified length N, rather
than possibly shorter than N.

You could alternatively just perform such padding at the end,
e.g. in the second form:

def bunch(list, N):
    result = [list[i:i+N] for i in range(0, len(list), N)]
    result[-1] = (result[-1]+[None]*N)[:N]
    return result

but it seems to me that the templist approach is a little bit
simpler/clearer (although it will potentially use a bit more
memory in some cases).


Alex





From aahz at panix.com  Fri Jan  5 19:35:07 2001
From: aahz at panix.com (Aahz Maruch)
Date: 5 Jan 2001 16:35:07 -0800
Subject: string formatting question
References: <3a5660f8.626036031@localhost>
Message-ID: <935p7r$1i1$1@panix6.panix.com>

In article <3a5660f8.626036031 at localhost>,
Victor Muslin <victor at prodigy.net> wrote:
>An integer can be formatted as follows:
>
>	>>> '%d' % 123
>
>How is an infinite precision long integer formatted into a string? If
>The above code:
>
>	>>> '%d' % 123123123123123123L
>
>produces an OverflowError exception. Surely there is something simple
>I am overlooking in the manual, but none of the other format
>specifiers described seemed to be appropriate.

The simplest approach is to use %s.  I've never tried any of the other
format specifiers for long ints.
-- 
                      --- Aahz (Copyright 2000 by aahz at pobox.com)

Androgynous poly kinky vanilla queer het    <*>     http://www.rahul.net/aahz/
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6

"This is Usenet.  We're all masturbating in public places."  -DH


From joejava at dragonat.net  Sun Jan  7 22:12:51 2001
From: joejava at dragonat.net (Joel Ricker)
Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2001 22:12:51 -0500
Subject: Basic module question:
References: <B67E91CD.A22E%stanton@livsform.com>
Message-ID: <Zja66.589$_e7.31014@news2.atl>

Stanton Schell wrote in message ...
>I am learning Python and I am trying to find out all the functions I have
>available to me within sys.stdin (eg read(), readlines(), etc...).  I
>realize this brings up a more fundamental question for me: how do I find
out
>what is available in any module (which I guess would then apply to other
>objects written by other people...)?
>
>any help or resource guidance would greatly appreciated :-)


Other than the module's documentation, the other thing you could do is use
dir() like this:

>>> import time
>>> dir(time)
['__doc__', '__name__', 'accept2dyear', 'altzone', 'asctime', 'clock',
'ctime',
'daylight', 'gmtime', 'localtime', 'mktime', 'sleep', 'strftime', 'time',
'timez
one', 'tzname']
>>>

dir() will also give you a list of functions and variables defined in the
current namespace.

dir() won't give you a list of builtin functions though.  To get those, use
the __builtin__ module:

>>> import __builtin__
>>> dir(__builtin__)
[*snip -- Long list of builtin functions/variables*]

Hope that helps

Joel "Just started learning python himself" Ricker

I have been Perl-Free for 3 Days, 0 Hours, 23 Minutes, and 14 Seconds.
------------------------------------------------------------
Joel Ricker   joejava at dragoncat.net
  Just Another Python Hacker




From noahspurrier at my-deja.com  Sun Jan 14 17:01:54 2001
From: noahspurrier at my-deja.com (noahspurrier at my-deja.com)
Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 22:01:54 GMT
Subject: How to check on process time?
References: <93ie2i$bse$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <93iip0$jhu$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <93t7kf$1nv$1@nnrp1.deja.com>


This is neat, but as you say it's not very portable!
I tested this with some modifications on Solaris 2.6 and OpenBSD 2.7.
Solaris has a /proc filesystem and the file names are
about the same, but the 'status' file is binary.
I couldn't even find a /proc directory under OpenBSD.
I searched around a bit, but I couldn't figure out
where they stuck it. I don't have easy access to
any other UNIX flavors to test this out on.

Jeeze... I can't believe there isn't any POSIX stuff
for process status. Not even in POSIX.4?

Yours,
Noah

In article <93iip0$jhu$1 at nntp6.u.washington.edu>,
  Donn Cave <donn at u.washington.edu> wrote:
> Quoth noahspurrier at my-deja.com:
> | Which Python library do I want to get extensive process information?

> As far as I know, that isn't supported on contemporary computer
> platforms, at least in any meaningfully portable way, and that
> would be why you don't see anything for it in Python.  The "ps"
> command doesn't use any kind of API, it just reads kernel memory
> where this stuff is stored.
>
> If it doesn't need to be portable, and your present platform
> supports it, I'd say use the "/proc" filesystem.  The following
> prints accumulated times, on FreeBSD 4.1.
>
> 	Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From phd at phd.pp.ru  Wed Jan 10 12:13:03 2001
From: phd at phd.pp.ru (Oleg Broytmann)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 20:13:03 +0300 (MSK)
Subject: Processes
In-Reply-To: <3a587fb6$1@news.barak.net.il>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0101102011480.12350-100000@fep132.fep.ru>

On Sun, 7 Jan 2001, Max F. Rotem wrote:
> How can I optimize it to DO NOT do REFRESH of CONTENT , and JUST add every
> time add of new content ??

   You need to make cooperative client-side functions (javascript,
probably) and serve-side CGIs...

Oleg.
----
     Oleg Broytmann            http://phd.pp.ru/            phd at phd.pp.ru
           Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN.




From fredrik at effbot.org  Tue Jan  9 14:39:41 2001
From: fredrik at effbot.org (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2001 19:39:41 GMT
Subject: Problem with __del__
References: <3A5B6434.2BD6FEF6@mail.dvz.fh-koeln.de>
Message-ID: <1OJ66.4624$AH6.762498@newsc.telia.net>

Stephan Effelsberg wrote:
> Now I swapped the lines for instanciating 'cl' and 'nothing' with the
> following result:
>
> cl2 <function dosomething at 8a7c90>
> doing something
> cla <function dosomething at 8a7c90>
> doing something
> nothing None
> Exception exceptions.TypeError: 'call of non-function (type None)' in
> <method Nothing.__del__ of Nothing instance at 8a7ee0> ignored
> cl None
> Exception exceptions.TypeError: 'call of non-function (type None)' in
> <method Nothing.__del__ of Nothing instance at 8a7f60> ignored
>
> Now it seems that both 'nothing' and 'cl' aren't able to see the
> function dosomething().
>
> Can somebody explain this phenomenon?

python replaces global objects with None during cleanup, in a well-
defined but somewhat unpredictable (for a human, at least) order:

    http://www.python.org/doc/essays/cleanup.html

if you can, get rid of the destructors (__del__ methods are evil, and
shouldn't be used in normal programming).

if you really must keep them around, make sure you keep references
to global objects:

    def __del__(self, dosomething=dosomething):
        print self.name, dosomething
        dosomething()

hope this helps!

cheers /F




From sholden at holdenweb.com  Tue Jan 16 17:42:27 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 17:42:27 -0500
Subject: URL replacement in text
References: <3A5F2A5A.494023BF@thawte.com> <MrG76.5696$Qb7.794378@newsb.telia.net> <8qH76.14451$Im.109356@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com> <7G%86.7011$AH6.1061749@newsc.telia.net>
Message-ID: <Ys496.26882$Q06.134062@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com>

"Fredrik Lundh" <fredrik at effbot.org> wrote in message
news:7G%86.7011$AH6.1061749 at newsc.telia.net...
> Steve Holden wrote:
> > Note that this won't cope with some of the more pathological URLs (such
as
> > those with CGI arguments [http://system/cgi?arg1=val1] or those which
link
> > to a named anchor in the target page
[http://system/pageref#target-name]).
>
> import re
>
> links = re.compile(r"(?i)(?:http|ftp|gopher):[\w.~/%#?&=-]+")
>
> def fixlink(m):
>     href = m.group(0)
>     return "<a href='%s'>%s</a>" % (href, href)
>
> sometext = """
> here's another link: http://www.pythonware.com?FOO=1&bar=10#BAR
> """
>
> print links.sub(fixlink, sometext)
>
> Cheers /F
>
Fredrik:

What took you so long? :-) Of course the next refinement is to present the
base part of the URL (up to the "?" or "#") as the anchored text, but use
the full URL as the HREF attribute value.

if-you've-got-answers-i've-got-questions-ly y'rs  - steve




From paulp at ActiveState.com  Thu Jan  4 20:03:21 2001
From: paulp at ActiveState.com (Paul Prescod)
Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 17:03:21 -0800
Subject: AMK's ZODB package on Win32
References: <mailman.978625505.30132.python-list@python.org> <slrn95a30u.hp.amk@207-172-36-136.s136.tnt6.ann.va.dialup.rcn.com>
Message-ID: <3A551D59.7E31974D@ActiveState.com>

"A.M. Kuchling" wrote:
> 
> On Thu, 04 Jan 2001 16:24:37 GMT,
>         andres.corrada <andres.corrada at mpingo.com> wrote:
> >Can Kuchling's ZODB package be used under Win32? Does someone have
> >experience doing this?
> 
> The ZODB code should work fine, but I have no access to a Windows box
> and can't compile it for Windows; perhaps you could extract the
> compiled code from the Zope distribution for Windows.

I was going to try the compile and see if it was easy but I note that
you have filenames of ZEO and zeo in the directory ZEO. To obfuscate a
little less:

zodb/ZEO/
zodb/ZEO/ZEO/
zodb/ZEO/zeo
tar: zodb/ZEO/zeo: Could not create file: Permission denied

 Paul



From martin at mira.cs.tu-berlin.de  Sat Jan 20 04:55:54 2001
From: martin at mira.cs.tu-berlin.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 10:55:54 +0100
Subject: [XML-SIG] Using Installer with PyXML
In-Reply-To: <016801c0829a$ea7bf2e0$11260340@yin> (dan.rolander@marriott.com)
References: <016801c0829a$ea7bf2e0$11260340@yin>
Message-ID: <200101200955.f0K9tsL00802@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

> "The problem here has to be the way that the xml library tree is replacing
> itself with the _xmlplus tree from the later PyXML distribution.  While
> runtime re-assigns xml to _xmlplus in the __init__ for xml, the import
> system used by the installation package can't track that, so it still looks
> for the actual module tree it loaded from the Python distribution beneath
> the name xml."

I'm not sure I understand the problem. Will the packager refuse (or
forget) to package the xml package, or will it, at runtime, fail to
load it?

If it manages to package both xml and _xmlplus: when loading xml, will
it execute xml/__init__.py? In there, there is an import of _xmlplus.
Will that succeed? If so, what happens to the lines

            import sys
            sys.modules[__name__] = _xmlplus

Will __name__ have a value of "xml"? Will the assignment succeed?

Now, suppose we do

from xml.sax import sax2exts

In normal Python, this will look for sys.modules["xml"] and start from
there. Are you saying the installer does not work that way, or that
even if it starts from there, it still can't figure out to load
_xmlplus.sax?

> So the question is, will this adversely impact normal Python operation, and
> is there a better way?

No, replacing the Python xml package completely with _xmlplus will
work just fine - except perhaps for the pyexpat difference.

> The other question I have is... Why are there two different pyexpat.pyd
> files, one as part of the core 2.0 distribution (at only 25 kb) and the
> other as part of the PyXML distribution in _xmlplus.parsers (at 124 kb). I
> haven't been able to get the large one to work using Installer, but the
> small core file works fine. What is the difference?

There are two differences: the one from PyXML contains a number of bug
fixes which are not in Python 2. In addition, it contains a literal
copy of the expat libraries, so that the expat DLLs in the Python core
should not be needed anymore.

When you say "get the large one to work", what exactly have you tried,
and how exactly did it fail?

Regards,
Martin



From bend at ecollege.com  Mon Jan 22 19:13:03 2001
From: bend at ecollege.com (Benjamin Derstine)
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 00:13:03 GMT
Subject: Documentation for using python mode in emacs
Message-ID: <j04b6.7869$QM2.613926@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>

Is there any documentation for using python mode in emacs? I've looked the
python.org website over and there is lots of info on how to install it and
configure it but no info on how to use it.  Are you supposed to be a pyschic
genius and just know?




From jcm at bigskytel.com  Fri Jan 26 12:44:01 2001
From: jcm at bigskytel.com (David Porter)
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 10:44:01 -0700
Subject: Problems with Install
In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.0.20010126083542.009e3290@mail.earthlink.net>; from zope@thewebsons.com on Fri, Jan 26, 2001 at 08:36:51AM -0800
References: <5.0.0.25.0.20010126083542.009e3290@mail.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20010126104401.A3406@bigskytel.com>

* Ben Ocean <zope at thewebsons.com>:

> I'm at a loss to understand why I can't get python working. 
<...>
> I may have made a bad mistake in deleting everything python in my box,
> please advise. Running RedHat 6.2.

Why not skip compilation difficulties and install an rpm?

http://rpmfind.net/linux/rpm2html/search.php?query=python





From danielk at aracnet.com  Thu Jan 11 22:30:22 2001
From: danielk at aracnet.com (Daniel Klein)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 19:30:22 -0800
Subject: Python Design Patterns (was Re: Should I learn Python or Java?)
References: <HEO56.5504$y9.2881293@typhoon.we.rr.com> <978840685.459818@emperor.labs.agilent.com> <3A5DF377.791E3DE0@comm.mot.com> <mailman.979261515.31284.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3cus5tk2n0qnhgfid5mnmauulc4gsjfnpb@4ax.com>

On Thu, 11 Jan 2001 20:05:05 -0500, D-Man <dsh8290 at rit.edu> wrote:

> Some things would be implemented quite different in python (such as Singleton)
> due to python's nice dynamic nature.

Since you mention it, what is the pythonic way to implement a Singleton? You
don't have to provide a complete answer, just a pointer as to where to start
would be fine as I like to try to work these things out at first for myself.

Daniel Klein

"If it's not one thing, it's two things."


From bxt at nospam.nospam  Tue Jan  9 08:20:00 2001
From: bxt at nospam.nospam (BxT)
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 14:20:00 +0100
Subject: string escaping problems with MySQLdb
Message-ID: <93f2cr$ofq$1@news2.dtag.de>

Hi, i know this is a new-bie question,
i'm using MySQLdb and, as i'm extracting records, i get string escaped as
follows:
for example, instead of ? i'm getting \\337 (yes, with doppel \). When i'm
printing the string i'm getting blah\337 (internally is blah\\337). I tried
to use string.replace but it's giving me the same string. Is there a way to
print blah??
For now, thanks in advance,
BxT




From adamgamble15 at hotmail.com  Thu Jan 18 14:40:04 2001
From: adamgamble15 at hotmail.com (adam gamble)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 13:40:04 -0600
Subject: Is it possible to Compile a Python script into an EXE, for x86?
Message-ID: <t6fs07m0j5vo82@corp.supernews.com>

NT




From michael at stroeder.com  Tue Jan 16 04:22:04 2001
From: michael at stroeder.com (Michael =?iso-8859-1?Q?Str=F6der?=)
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 10:22:04 +0100
Subject: Web devel with python: Best route? XML to HTML translation!
References: <93cqvi0191h@news1.newsguy.com> <mailman.978910629.6814.python-list@python.org> <mailman.978975978.19612.python-list@python.org> <spenrose-E755EB.22423209012001@news.dnai.com> <93hfp1013sm@news2.newsguy.com> <93vnlv$2qq$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <3A6412BC.A07C547@stroeder.com>

rturpin at my-deja.com wrote:
> 
> (1) The server scripts in Python generate XML. This is
> pretty easy to do with xmlpickle. (2) Use an XML to HTML
> filter to generate the HTML.

In theory this is a good way. But how about the performance? Last
time I played with a Python-written XSLT processor it was pretty
slow.

Ciao, Michael.


From gregj at pobox.com  Tue Jan 23 22:33:37 2001
From: gregj at pobox.com (Greg Jorgensen)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 03:33:37 GMT
Subject: How do I kill an empty file ??
References: <94k9p5$vs2$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <94lieh$5sd$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

Use the fileinput module:

----
import glob, fileinput
files = glob.glob("path/to/files/*.tab")  # get all file names

for filename in files:
    for line in fileinput.input(filename):
        if len(line) > 2:
            ... # process line
----

fileinput.input gives you an iterator over the lines in the file. It
ignores empty files (opens and closes them immediately), so they won't
be processed by your code.

--
Greg Jorgensen
Portland, Oregon, USA
gregj at pobox.com


In article <94k9p5$vs2$1 at nnrp1.deja.com>,
  chris.nelson at bwc.state.oh.us wrote:
> Hello:
> I have several TAB files that are generated daily for reports that are
> then converted into graphs. The problem is that every now and then a
> report file will fail to generate data and I will have an empty file.
>
> Currently I read in the the file assigning it to a variable and
> readlines()
> Then I use the following to parse out blank lines in a normal file
>
>         for line in data:
> 	    j=0
> 	    if len(line)>2:
>             ......rest of code
>
> What's an easy way to adapt this so that I can ignore files that are
> nothing but empty lines? Ultimately I'm looking for sytax that will
> ignore processing a file if it is empty.
>
> Please advise and tanks,
> Chris
>
> Sent via Deja.com
> http://www.deja.com/
>


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From ctanya at my-deja.com  Wed Jan 17 14:54:28 2001
From: ctanya at my-deja.com (ctanya at my-deja.com)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 19:54:28 GMT
Subject: pythoncom for VC++ RPC client
Message-ID: <944t9e$f4r$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

Is there a way to expose the pythomcom server to VC++ client using
late binding? (with IUNKNOWN)
The problem I'm facing is that VC++ client requires interface GUID to
create the instance and I'm having trouble generating it from string
interface representation:
MakeIID(Sgl_sim.Server.HostServer.Connected) - gives me an error:
       TypeError: The object can not be converted to a Unicode object.

Could I avoid this step at all?


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From s2mdalle at titan.vcu.edu  Thu Jan 11 14:52:12 2001
From: s2mdalle at titan.vcu.edu (David Allen)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 19:52:12 GMT
Subject: Starting application inside an application
References: <3A5D7722.2977BFE0@proceryon.at>
Message-ID: <M9o76.4407$CN6.892378@typhoon2.ba-dsg.net>

In article <3A5D7722.2977BFE0 at proceryon.at>, "Horst Gassner"
<horst at proceryon.at> wrote:

> Hello!
> 
> Platform: Linux
> 
> What is the easiest way to launch a new application from e.g. a menu in a
> running application? Using os.system() does not work because the calling
> application has to wait until the launched application has terminated.
> 
> What I want to do is simply starting a second instance of my application
> (just like starting the application from the command line a second
> time). I am looking for a function like spawnv() which unfortunately only
> works for the windows platform.
> 
> Thank you Horst

You can popen() a process. You pass the command line
to popen() and it returns a file object which you
can then use as normal.  

Or, you can do what popen() is really doing, only
do it yourself.  Popen just forks a process, and 
exec's a shell to execute your command line.

-- 
David Allen
http://opop.nols.com/
----------------------------------------
"The number of UNIX installations has grown to 10, with more expected."
-- The UNIX Programmer's Manual, 2nd Edition, June, 1972


From julienr at satis.com  Thu Jan 18 11:00:43 2001
From: julienr at satis.com (Julien Reynier)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 16:00:43 GMT
Subject: Is it possible to write a python module in Java?
Message-ID: <3A6713C3.88C2F64F@satis.com>

Hi,

I know it's possible to write a python module in C or C++. But is it
possible to do the same thing with Java? And how ?

I know JPython, but JPython can't access to system call as os.chdir(),
os.system() etc So I want to use Python.

thanks...


-- 
Julien


From katz at Glue.umd.edu  Sat Jan 27 09:38:20 2001
From: katz at Glue.umd.edu (Roy Katz)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 09:38:20 -0500
Subject: . Python 2.1 function attributes
In-Reply-To: <mailman.980593892.725.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.980593892.725.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0101270922040.3501-100000@y.glue.umd.edu>

On Sat, 27 Jan 2001, Tim Peters wrote:

> Because the technique you suggest has been available for a decade, yet in
> practice people refused to use it, preferring instead to abuse docstrings.
> Have you read the PEP?  "Practicality beats purity" in Python:  an elegant
> solution that masses of experienced Pythoneers refuse to use is an excellent
> predictor of future language change.  And, for example, metaclasses are in
> that boat too.

I considered your argument and have come to agree with you. 
I wanted to organize for myself the separations between functions and
classes. Let's see if we can generalize them, perhaps use their
differences to some advantage. 
Is it possible, then, to organize these as subtypes of some
Entity? This 'Entity' allows for attributes to be attached under its
namespace.  Integers aren't entities.  len() is not an
entity.  User-defined functions and classes -are- entities. 
As subtypes,  Functions and Classes offer these additional
functionalities:


Functions:
  - don't need to be instantiated to be executed
  - very much a singleton 

Classes:
  - always pass self to methods
  - clonable through multiple instantiation

Both:
  - take parameters (functions by their nature; classes through __init__)
  - can accomplish the same thing
  - can be used as data structures

Note that last point:  Is it that people have been clamoring for singleton
support under Python?  A question to consider:   suppose we add class
methods to Python.  Then, the singleton feature of a function's data set
can be mimiced by classes with static methods.  I'm not sure what my point
is, but I'm interested nonetheless. Perhaps adding attributes to functions
takes us one step closer to adding true class methods. 


> Barry also added code to Python 2.1 to let you write, e.g.,
> 
>     def f() >> x:
>         x = 1
>         y = 2
> 
> as a short way to spell "whatever the value of x is at the end of the
> function, return that".  I'm sure you'll agree that's much cleaner than the
> clumsy

I like it, but why the choice of >> over return? 


Roey



From claird at starbase.neosoft.com  Wed Jan 24 09:14:42 2001
From: claird at starbase.neosoft.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: 24 Jan 2001 08:14:42 -0600
Subject: Python/C++ for graphics vs. other languages?
References: <mailman.980225485.12027.python-list@python.org> <C561EF78F44BCFBC.695A1531ED4F4EAF.D1609371B72F8907@lp.airnews.net> <mailman.980296092.27456.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <343986CB211E5DAD.985374BA50B24FC6.19D7A7B6FE4D9F36@lp.airnews.net>

In article <mailman.980296092.27456.python-list at python.org>,
D-Man  <dsh8290 at rit.edu> wrote:
>On Tue, Jan 23, 2001 at 08:52:31AM -0600, Cameron Laird wrote:
>[snip]
>| <URL: http://starbase.neosoft.com/~claird/comp.lang.python/py_GUI.html >
>
>This URL is broken.
>
>-D
>
>

The poster was broken.  Thanks for the catch.
<URL: http://starbase.neosoft.com/~claird/comp.lang.python/python_GUI.html >
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at NeoSoft.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://starbase.neosoft.com/~claird/home.html


From qrczak at knm.org.pl  Tue Jan 30 14:22:04 2001
From: qrczak at knm.org.pl (Marcin 'Qrczak' Kowalczyk)
Date: 30 Jan 2001 19:22:04 GMT
Subject: curly-brace-aphobic?
References: <3A74EBD6.3C87FD15@seebelow.org> <slrn97a9fu.7sf.clgonsal@keeshah.penguinpowered.com> <3A757FBE.E54C5ECD@seebelow.org> <mailman.980789494.4239.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrn97e52s.al7.qrczak@qrnik.zagroda>

Mon, 29 Jan 2001 12:30:30 -0500, D-Man <dsh8290 at rit.edu> pisze:

> I'm not sure how different they are conceptually.  A dictionary is a
> collection (sequence) of data that is indexed by arbitrary keys.  A
> list is a collection (sequence) of data that is indexed by integers
> only.  It seems to me that a list is a special case of a dictionary.

An important difference is that in a sequence you can insert or
delete in the middle *shifting indices of all following elements*,
where in a dictionary such operation would not make sense.

Of course it does not imply that I would make a difference in syntax
of accessing elements. When dictionaries and sequences are treated
as immutable, they are very similar.

-- 
 __("<  Marcin Kowalczyk * qrczak at knm.org.pl http://qrczak.ids.net.pl/
 \__/
  ^^                      SYGNATURA ZAST?PCZA
QRCZAK


From mlh at idi.ntnu.no  Tue Jan 30 17:19:43 2001
From: mlh at idi.ntnu.no (Magnus Lie Hetland)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 23:19:43 +0100
Subject: Sets in Python
References: <956hcd$qef$1@tyfon.itea.ntnu.no> <956s6k013u0@news2.newsguy.com> <m3snm07v3e.fsf@atrus.jesus.cam.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <957erd$c4v$1@tyfon.itea.ntnu.no>

"Michael Hudson" <mwh21 at cam.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:m3snm07v3e.fsf at atrus.jesus.cam.ac.uk...
> "Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com> writes:
[...]
> > Hi Magnus!  It's been a while...
> >
> > In Python 2.1, you'll be able to use
> >     if x in dict
> > as a synonym for
> >     if dict.has_key(x)
> > [and *maybe* the for-loop equivalent, too -- I'm still unclear
> > about that one, and it doesn't seem to be in the first alpha].
>
> Uh huh; maybe not.  There have been second thoughts at high levels -
> expect a PEP and to maybe see these features in 2.2.

Does that mean "maybe not" any of the features mentioned? Or only
the ones in brackets?

And if there is to be a PEP on this, might I humbly suggest an
evaluation of some additional set-like methods etc.?
I'm not sure what all of them might be, but at least I feel
they should include adding and removing elements from the set...

For instance, you might have a method dict.add(element) which
was equivalent to dict[element] = 1 or dict[element] = None
(which is perhaps more logical) or something? dict.remove(element)
could then be equivalent to del dict[element] or something?

Or perhaps even something like dict += element for adding an
element and dict -= element for removing it? (That's what I did
in my wrapper, but I'm not sure how good it is... Since it
+ might intuitively mean union... Oh, well...)

hoping-for-prettier-sets'ly y'rs

- M

>
> Cheers,
> M.

(Oh... That looked a bit schizoid or something ;-)

--

  Magnus Lie Hetland      (magnus at hetland dot org)

 "Reality is what refuses to disappear when you stop
  believing in it"                 -- Philip K. Dick





From amritansh at mobilian.com  Wed Jan 17 14:59:55 2001
From: amritansh at mobilian.com (Amritansh Raghav)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 11:59:55 -0800
Subject: design help/questions
Message-ID: <t6bue0e3m9bt74@corp.supernews.com>

Hi
Disclaimer: I'm a Python newbie (been less than 2 days since I first looked
at it) and I am searching the web for answers to these questions too, but
since I am under a tight schedule, I was hoping someone could help me with
these questions:

So here is what I need to do. I'm trying to write a scripting tool for our
test team. They wish to send arbitrary packets over the network.  What I'd
like to do is allow the testers to specify any packet in a text file - say
something like this:
<IP>
    "VersionLength"          0        1    # Name of field, Starting offset,
Length in bytes
    "TOS"                        1        1
    "Length"                     2        2
    "Id"                            4        2
    "Offset"                      6        2
    "TTL"                        8        1
    "ProtoId"                    9        1
    CheckSum"                10        2
    "Source"                   12        4
    "Dest"                        16        4
</IP>

Once they have specified this, the tester should be able to create a packet
an assign values to the field, or receive a packet and parse out its
contents.
so a script should be able to say
p = read()
if p["ProtoId"] == 17:
    # do something here for UDP packets

Solution
    I have written a DLL  which can open/close/read/write to an ethernet
device. I've got it interfacing to Python. It can accept a buffer and return
a buffer. I've looked at socketmodule.c to get most of that figured out. I
assume what I need to do is build a dictionary whose keys are the field
names of a packet and then write a parser to fill in the values into the
dictionary. I also need something to parse the text file description.

If someone has done something like this before, or can point me to helpful
scripts and source, I would be grateful.
Thanks






From pln at cosmic.stanford.edu  Mon Jan  8 20:00:05 2001
From: pln at cosmic.stanford.edu (Patrick L. Nolan)
Date: 9 Jan 2001 01:00:05 GMT
Subject: A Listbox in a grid
Message-ID: <93dnql$h5l$1@nntp.Stanford.EDU>

I'm writing an application using Tkinter.  I'm trying to stay
with plain Tkinter for portability.  I'm stuck on something.

One of my windows is a big grid layout with bits of text and
Checkbuttons.  It was nice until I thought of another feature
to add.  I decided it would be useful if one of the columns of
text would act like a Listbox.  So I put a Listbox in my grid,
next to a column of Checkbuttons.  It was pure joy until I
populated my window with more rows of information.  Then I
noticed a lack of alignment between the columns.  The height
of each row inside the Listbox is slightly less than the
height of the Checkbutton next to it.  

It would be wonderful if I could put the Checkbuttons inside
the Listbox, or maybe if I could tell the Listbox that each
row should be as high as a Checkbutton.  So far I can't find
any way to accomplish either.  Am I stuck?

-- 
*   Patrick L. Nolan                                          *
*   W. W. Hansen Experimental Physics Laboratory (HEPL)       * 
*   Stanford University                                       *


From andrew_dot_henshaw_at_earthling_dot_net  Sat Jan 13 14:18:37 2001
From: andrew_dot_henshaw_at_earthling_dot_net (Andrew Henshaw)
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 14:18:37 -0500
Subject: why no "do : until"?
References: <mailman.979188492.12187.python-list@python.org> <90278A4rcamesz@127.0.0.1> <mailman.979261813.31482.python-list@python.org> <t5su71caku5gd0@corp.supernews.com> <3A5F264D.4D7C024A@gte.net>
Message-ID: <t61aqqat4fssc2@corp.supernews.com>

Steve,

Forgive me for not knowing your stance on some of the earlier points
discussed, but I was responding to Rober Amesz' do - until proposal.  Would
not your statements also apply to his use of
    until condition
instead of
    if condition: break
?
I suppose that you could limit each 'do:' loop to one 'until' to avoid the
multiple breaks problem.  Implicit in that proposal would be the assumption
that 'if condition: break' would not be allowed in a 'do:' loop.  I don't
think that suggestion would fly very well.

Given Python's current structure, I still believe that the best compromise
is the allowance of
    do:
as a synonym for
    while 1:

and leave it at that.


AH

"Steve Williams" <sandj.williams at gte.net> wrote in message
news:3A5F264D.4D7C024A at gte.net...
> Andrew Henshaw wrote:
>
> > "D-Man" <dsh8290 at rit.edu> wrote in message
> > news:mailman.979261813.31482.python-list at python.org...
> > > On Fri, Jan 12, 2001 at 12:33:58AM +0000, Robert Amesz wrote:
> > > [snip]
> > ...snip
> > [more snip]
>
> >
> > Python's existing 'if condition: break', with its colon, stands out and,
> > more clearly than the 'until', shows its true function; which is,
> > essentially, a goto past 'something else' and out of the loop.  I
believe
> > that support for this is more likely than for the other more significant
> > changes.
> >
>
> If you have nested 'do' statements, you have to keep track of the nesting
> structure to find a break target.  Searching for the first 'break' after a
'do'
> may or may not find the loop invariant.
>
> Similarly, if you have multiple 'breaks' for a single 'do', the first one
you
> find may not be the one that bit you.
>
> With 'break', the program flow no longer corresponds to the program
listing
> (the original complaint about g*t*, IIRC).
>
> There will always be debugging questions such as "how did I get here?" and
"why
> did I skip this?" in procedural languages.  'Break' adds a little extra
> excitement to these questions.
>
>




From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Thu Jan  4 12:55:23 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 18:55:23 +0100
Subject: Registering C methods when writing a C extension type?
References: <mailman.978623584.28957.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <932dg20a5o@news2.newsguy.com>

"Tom Epperly" <tepperly at llnl.gov> wrote in message
news:mailman.978623584.28957.python-list at python.org...
> Thanks to everyone who replied. You helped clear up some of my
> misconceptions. I am fairly convinced by what I've read that what I've
> proposed is a bad idea.
    [snip]
> If I implement getattr/setattr with a PyDictObject (i.e. each myobject has
> a dictionary instance), I thought the potential benefits would be:
> 1. Replace the linear lookup time implicit in Py_FindMethod with nearly
>    constant time hash table lookup.

True.  But, how many methods will your objects have?  For a typical small
list, up to say 10-20, the small constants in the linear-time search may
still make it a win (or roughly a tie, turning into a win because of the
memory saving and speedier new-object generation).

> 2. Avoid creating a PyCFunction_New once per method call.

If a method is called in a tight loop, so that this is a worry, a
speedier solution may be for the _Python_ side of things to do the
lookup just once, saving the resulting callable in a local variable.


> It would be nice if there were a Py_FindMethodSorted where it assumed that
> the PyMethodDef's were alphabetically sorted.

It might produce a small gain, yes (or a big one, if the methods
are REALLY many).  But if measurement proves that this does in
fact make a measurable difference in your case, it's not hard to
implement that yourself (and maybe post it as a patch to the
sourceforge site) based on C's bsearch, I guess.  (Wait until you
_have_ measured... intuition regarding performance is SO tricky!).


> I was also considering a way to have one extension type being able to wrap
> up numerous IDL types. The alternative is to do something like:

Why not have a Python-visible type per IDL type?  I fail to see
any cost in that.


> struct myobject {
>   PyObject_HEAD
>   const PyMethodDef *object_methods;
> }
>
> static PyObject *
> myobject_getattr(myobject *self, char *name) {
>  /* other stuff deleted */
>  return Py_FindMethod(self->object_methods, self, name);
> }

Yes, you could do that -- have objects of the same Python-visible
type implement different sets of methods.  But the benefit sort
of eludes me here (the cost is also pretty small of course).


Alex





From donn at u.washington.edu  Thu Jan 11 15:40:40 2001
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: 11 Jan 2001 20:40:40 GMT
Subject: Starting application inside an application
References: <3A5D7722.2977BFE0@proceryon.at>
Message-ID: <93l5o8$n8i$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>

Quoth Horst Gassner <horst at proceryon.at>:
| Platform: Linux
|
| What is the easiest way to launch a new application from e.g. a menu in
| a running application?
| Using os.system() does not work because the calling application has to
| wait until the launched application has terminated.
|
| What I want to do is simply starting a second instance of my application
| (just like starting the application from the command line a second
| time). I am looking for a function like spawnv() which unfortunately
| only works for the windows platform.

On the contrary, I bet os.spawnv() will work fine for you.

   >>> import os
   >>> os.spawnv(os.P_NOWAIT, '/usr/bin/uname', ('uname', '-s'))
   1445
   >>> FreeBSD

   >>>

Check it out.

	Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu


From sholden at holdenweb.com  Thu Jan  4 07:53:40 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 07:53:40 -0500
Subject: Importing into 'containers' namespace
References: <3a544e22.1199160471@news.mch.sni.de>
Message-ID: <Vo_46.620$Gd1.76220@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com>

Nikolai Kirsebom <nikolai.kirsebom at siemens.no> wrote in message
news:3a544e22.1199160471 at news.mch.sni.de...
> There is probably an easy solution to this, but I can't seem to find
> out.
>
> I would like to make an object (instance) created in the 'importing'
> namespace available in the imported module.
>
Passing it as an argument to the object initialiation is the usual way to
go, see below.

> Example below:
>
> # -----------------------------------------------------------
> # File: B.py (the imported module)
> # when loaded, the object 'FrameWork' is in the scope
> class B:
>     def __init__(self):
>         self.b = FrameWork.a
>
Change this so that the FrameWork is passed to the initializer:

class B:
    def __init__(self, F)
    self.b = F.a

> # -----------------------------------------------------------
> # File: A.py (the importer)
>
> class A:
>     def __init__(self):
>         self.a = 1
>
> # Create framework instanse
> FrameWork = A()
>
> # SOME IMPORT STATEMENT for module B
> ??
>
> Sub = B.B()
Change this to pass the FrameWork in to the object creation:

Sub = B.B(FrameWork)

> print Sub.b    # Produces '1' as output
>
> # ----------------------------------------------------------
>
> Thanks for any help.
> Nikolai
>
Hope this helps.

regards
 Steve






From p.g at figu.no  Thu Jan 18 01:29:00 2001
From: p.g at figu.no (Per Gummedal)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 07:29:00 +0100
Subject: Python and Industry, IBM I'm afraid
In-Reply-To: <3A63D9E8.F9B74ACE@mjs400.co.uk>
References: <20010111172342.10148.00000934@ng-ca1.aol.com>
 <HnO86.78962$_G5.11779533@typhoon.nyroc.rr.com> <3A63D9E8.F9B74ACE@mjs400.co.uk>
Message-ID: <942039571298.20010118072900@figu.no>

16.01.2001, 06:19, Pete wrote:

> Has anyone ported Python to IBM iSeries 400?...Or is this considered too
> much hassle, because they are  big fat trucks of servers - and come
> bundled with no GUI support (they have had posix for many years)?...Or
> are people waiting for Linux support in a logical OS partition?...Or
> does no one care?

I'm currently trying to do a port to AS/400.
I have it up running with a limited set of modules, but it's not
ready yet.


Per





From walter at bnbt.de  Fri Jan 26 12:29:06 2001
From: walter at bnbt.de (Walter Dörwald)
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 17:29:06 GMT
Subject: What happened to unistr() in 2.1a1?
Message-ID: <94sc4l$1sv$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

Hello all!

What happened to the builtin function unistr() from
patch #101664? It seems to have been removed in the last
minute before the release of 2.1a1.

Bye,
   Walter D?rwald


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From williamc at go2net.com  Thu Jan 11 22:31:50 2001
From: williamc at go2net.com (William Carrel)
Date: 11 Jan 2001 19:31:50 -0800
Subject: BUG Python 2.0 FreeBSD compile problem
In-Reply-To: amk@mira.erols.com's message of "12 Jan 2001 02:40:17 GMT"
References: <mailman.979245132.20625.python-list@python.org>
	<slrn95sse8.gu.amk@207-172-146-204.s204.tnt3.ann.va.dialup.rcn.com>
Message-ID: <mbd7dtv42h.fsf@gasket.go2net.com>

amk at mira.erols.com (A.M. Kuchling) writes:

> On Thu, 11 Jan 2001 14:31:26 -0600 (CST), 
> 	Chris Watson <chris at voodooland.net> wrote:
> >Python is IN the ports tree. And someone (the maintainer of that port) had
> >already gone to the trouble to patch it and insure it compiles well and
> >added the other nice features of "ports" in FreeBSD. So there was no need
> 
> And this points up an annoying thing about FreeBSD; patches are made
> to get Python to compile on the platform, but those changes aren't
> contributed *back* to the original Python source tree.  How can one
> find out what changes were made to a package in the ports tree?

Look for patches in the ports tree...
http://www.FreeBSD.org/cgi/cvsweb.cgi/ports/lang/python/files/

Although I believe the standard procedure is to submit those patches
to the project as soon as possible so that there are less patches to
maintain in the ports tree.

But-I-build-from-CVS-anyway-even-if-I-have-ports-ly yours -- Andy



From aahz at panix.com  Fri Jan  5 10:50:30 2001
From: aahz at panix.com (Aahz Maruch)
Date: 5 Jan 2001 07:50:30 -0800
Subject: Migrating to perl?
References: <3Fa56.4580$of7.216286@news1.atl> <mailman.978670867.31055.python-list@python.org> <V%c56.4648$of7.221797@news1.atl>
Message-ID: <934qg6$dua$1@panix2.panix.com>

In article <V%c56.4648$of7.221797 at news1.atl>,
Joel Ricker <joejava at dragonat.net> wrote:
>
>I thought of the question about security and the need for taint modes but
>then I realized since there may not be system calls like `del *.*` there
>might not be a need for it.  I'm sure that if Python is in general use as a
>CGI language then those issues have been cleared up.  Are there any thing
>you have to watch for like running in taint mode in perl?

There are system calls, but Python programming (particularly in a CGI
environment) tends to avoid them, simply because they tend to be
OS-centric (for example, your "del *.*" above would need to be written
as "rm *" on Unix).  Python provides modules that handle many of the
cases that you'd use system calls for in Perl (not that Perl doesn't
provide those modules, but it's not part of the mindset to the same
extent that it is in Python).

Python's cross-platform approach serves you well in this regard.
-- 
                      --- Aahz (Copyright 2000 by aahz at pobox.com)

Androgynous poly kinky vanilla queer het    <*>     http://www.rahul.net/aahz/
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6

"This is Usenet.  We're all masturbating in public places."  -DH


From a.genkin at utoronto.ca  Sat Jan 27 00:40:08 2001
From: a.genkin at utoronto.ca (Arcady Genkin)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 05:40:08 GMT
Subject: Precision of float --- double?
Message-ID: <87hf2lk0xz.fsf@tea.thpoon.com>

Could someone point me to a place in the documentation where the float
type is defined?  Is it equivallent of C's double?

Many thanks,
-- 
Arcady Genkin
Don't read everything you believe.


From jefferrs83 at hotmail.com  Tue Jan  9 17:19:30 2001
From: jefferrs83 at hotmail.com (Geoffrey Schneider)
Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2001 22:19:30 GMT
Subject: Silly question from a newbie
Message-ID: <S7M66.23342$0x5.1988326@news3.cableinet.net>

Hi,

This probably seems like a pathetic question, but...

I downloaded the 'Grail' browser made with Python.... but, being someone who
only just heard of Python 2 days ago, I don't know how to start the Grail
browser. How do I open it? There isn't a .exe file or something like that
(which, being a dumb-ass Windows user for six years I'm used to having
provided).

I'm using the Python for Windows thingy, as I don't have UNIX (apart from
Linux, which I ordered from Amazon.com, but hasn't arrived yet!).

Thanks.

Jefferrs
jefferrs83 at hotmail.com




From tim.one at home.com  Sat Jan 27 18:01:27 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 18:01:27 -0500
Subject: . Python 2.1 function attributes
In-Reply-To: <$5A+ZwAGjtc6EwE0@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCIELKILAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Robin Becker]
> mmmhhhh :( what happens with
>
> def f() >> x:
>         return 1
> ...
> def f() >> x:
>         y=2
>         return y

Raises InconsistentReturnError unless

    x is 1

evaluates true in the first example, or

    x is y

evaluates true in the second, at the time the "return" is executed.
Clearly, anything else would be error-prone!

> seems to me that having multiple ways of doing return is a bad idea

You might like this new 2.1 feature better then, best illustrated by
example:

>>> def f(\d+)(i):
...     return int(\1) + 1
...
>>> f12(6)
18
>>> f0(3)
3
>>> f666(42)
708
>>>

That is, "the name" of a function can be a regular expression now, and
anything that "looks like" a call is matched against all regexp func defs.
\1, \2 etc can  be used in the body of the function to return substrings of
the matched function name, just as for any other use of regexps in Python.

Of course there is a full set of disambiguating rules, based on the notion
of "most specific match".  For example,

def f.*(i):
    return i

also matches names like f12 and f666, but the set of strings matching f.* is
a strict superset of those matching f(\d+), so the latter is more specific.
By the same rule,

def f666(i):
    pass

is a more specific match than f(\d+), so f666 is unambiguous.

The primary reason for adding this was all the complaints about not being
able to reliably obtain the name of a function within its own body.  Now
it's available via \0.

>>> def anyfuncatall():
...     print \0
...
anyfuncatall
>>>

or, via the new attribute notation,

>>> anyfuncatall.\0
'anyfuncatall'
>>>

Combining this with the new return spelling is very powerful:

>>> x1 = 10
>>> x2 = 20
>>> x3 = 30
>>> def f(\d)() >> eval("x" + \1):
...     pass
...
>>> f2()
20
>>>

can't-wait-to-see-who-supports-this-one<wink>-ly y'rs  - tim




From cfelling at iae.nl  Thu Jan 25 11:34:48 2001
From: cfelling at iae.nl (Carel Fellinger)
Date: 25 Jan 2001 17:34:48 +0100
Subject: python-2.1 function attributes
References: <ul3snm8dfae.fsf@smaug.fsl.noaa.gov> <m3n1cgzvpj.fsf@atrus.jesus.cam.ac.uk> <ul3ofwwddsy.fsf@smaug.fsl.noaa.gov> <mailman.980396369.12407.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <94pkj8$2k9$1@animus.fel.iae.nl>

Paul Prescod <paulp at activestate.com> wrote:
> Mike Romberg wrote:
...
>> def spam():
>>     """The doc string."""
>>     { 'attribute1' : 'val1', 'attribute2' : val2 }
>>     pass

> I proposed a similar syntax to Guido a couple of years ago and he
> pointed out that it is unclear whether "val2" should be evaluated in the
> runtime context of spam() or in the global context. The former is what
> the syntax suggests but the latter is the only way to have the feature
> work properly.

That's why I proposed

    def spam()   # no trailing : here!, so we didn't really enter spam scope
        with:    # buth first the `with' scope to define spam's attributes
            statements to initialise f's dict with full python power
        suite

On the other hand, the current practice of having the first string-statement
be converted compile time into spam's docstring has always struck my as odd.
-- 
groetjes, carel


From entropiamax at jazzfree.com  Mon Jan  8 03:42:20 2001
From: entropiamax at jazzfree.com (entropia)
Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2001 09:42:20 +0100
Subject: shtml in python
References: <93adro$k9n$1@sunsite.icm.edu.pl> <9z366.240411$_5.53698286@news4.rdc1.on.home.com> <93algg$pdj$1@sunsite.icm.edu.pl>
Message-ID: <3A597D6C.49359F93@jazzfree.com>

Look at webware.sourceforge.net
Webware includes PSP, the Python equivalent of PHP, ASP and JSP

Vesemir escribi?:

> Hello!
> U?ytkownik "Michael P. Soulier" <msoulier at storm.ca> napisa? w wiadomo?ci
> news:9z366.240411$_5.53698286 at news4.rdc1.on.home.com...
> > In article <93adro$k9n$1 at sunsite.icm.edu.pl>, Vesemir wrote:
> > >
> > >How to write shtml scripts in python?
> > >what's needed to configure apache server?
> >
> >     I think you're confusing two concepts here. shtml is a standard file
> > extension for Server Side Includes. This has nothing to do with Python. If
> you
> > are instead hoping to use Python to write CGI scripts, then read up on
> your
> > web server's documentation on how to enable CGI scripts. If it's apache,
> check
> > the apache web site. They have excellent documention.
>
> No! I want to configure apache server to embed python scripts into html
> code.
>
> Yours
> QdlatY
>
> --
> http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list




From grey at despair.rpglink.com  Fri Jan 19 17:02:05 2001
From: grey at despair.rpglink.com (Steve Lamb)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 22:02:05 -0000
Subject: Why no isexec, isread, iswrite, etc (was: I must be missing something obvious: os.path.isexecutable?)
References: <slrn96enju.g1v.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <slrn96ep7c.g1v.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <slrn96erlf.h11.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <eU0a6.744$eI2.252354@ruti.visi.com> <slrn96hcek.mqj.grey@teleute.dmiyu.org> <%F2a6.926$eI2.260005@ruti.visi.com>
Message-ID: <slrn96heat.n25.grey@teleute.dmiyu.org>

On Fri, 19 Jan 2001 21:51:55 GMT, Grant Edwards <grante at visi.com> wrote:
>I didn't say it was a _good_ answer.  ;)

    :)

    Anyway, point was made.  There is a way to do it, just not the way that
I'd prefer to do it.  I'd like to see it added but I'm not going to whine
about it endlessly.  If anything I'm going to look into modification of at
least posixpath.py to include such checks in some manner once I get some free
time on my hands.  If I can come up with something that will work in a
predictable manner I'll submit it as a patch to be incorporated or tossed away
as they see fit.  Thanks for the discussion, though, I did learn a bit.


-- 
         Steve C. Lamb         | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your
         ICQ: 5107343          | main connection to the switchboard of souls.
-------------------------------+---------------------------------------------


From Dan.Rolander at marriott.com  Fri Jan 26 09:20:26 2001
From: Dan.Rolander at marriott.com (Rolander, Dan)
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 09:20:26 -0500
Subject: New way to learn Python?
Message-ID: <6176E3D8E36FD111B58900805FA7E0F80CCF633A@mcnc-mdm1-ex01>

Cool site! But I'd like to see the main page be introductory with some basic
information about the site and the quizzes before launching right into them.

Thanks for doing this.

Dan

-----Original Message-----
From: jqcordova at my-deja.com [mailto:jqcordova at my-deja.com]
Sent: Friday, January 26, 2001 5:19 AM
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: New way to learn Python?


Spent last couple of years building well-known e-commerce sites using
Open Source code. Used Perl, Python,Tcl/Tk, & Java and had to teach jr.
programmers a lot about how to program in these languages. Found out
most effective way was the so-called Socratic method of
question/answer. So, put together a website  www.codecity.com
to explore this approach to teaching Open Source. Hope to get some
feedback/participation from this group especially in contributing
Python quizzes. Hope this is appropriate.

Jeff C.
www.codecity.com


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/
-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list



From hans.kristian.ruud at inenco.no  Thu Jan 18 13:34:39 2001
From: hans.kristian.ruud at inenco.no (Hans Kristian Ruud)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 18:34:39 GMT
Subject: Canvas geometry
Message-ID: <3A67353A.4B9328EC@inenco.no>

Hello

      I try to retrieve the dimensions of a canvas in the following
manner:

      h = eval( self.canvas.cget('height')  )
      w = eval( self.canvas).cget('width')  )

      however this does noe yield the true values (as I have
demonstrated by this
      code):

      self.canvas.create_line(5,5,5,h-5,w-5,h-5,w-5,5,5,5,fill='red')


      The code in question is based upon the example draw3.py in
Grayson's book
      Python and Tkinter programming (Chapter 10.2)


      How do I retrieve the "true" extensions of the canvas?

      P? forh?nd takk ( Thanks in advance )

      - hans kristian -


From claird at starbase.neosoft.com  Fri Jan  5 07:34:51 2001
From: claird at starbase.neosoft.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: 5 Jan 2001 06:34:51 -0600
Subject: How to think about Python's few controversies (was: Migrating to perl?)
References: <3Fa56.4580$of7.216286@news1.atl> <933fa1$j2i$1@newshost.accu.uu.nl> <ggd56.4652$of7.222552@news1.atl> <slrn95atra.vm6.quinn@zloty.ugcs.caltech.edu>
Message-ID: <2021AFB9F318BFB8.57ECE2FBE8BE9A50.59A8AF63203CCFD1@lp.airnews.net>

In article <slrn95atra.vm6.quinn at zloty.ugcs.caltech.edu>,
Quinn Dunkan <quinn at zloty.ugcs.caltech.edu> wrote:
>On Fri, 5 Jan 2001 00:47:32 -0500, Joel Ricker <joejava at dragonat.net> wrote:
			.
			.
			.
>Well, I hate to disappoint, but python doesn't enforce encapsulation.  Just
>like it doesn't enforce types---you'll get a runtime error down the line.  I
			.
			.
			.
>provide automatic accessors.  I've discovered, though, that I've never had a
>problem with python's direct access.  Just use your good judgement---you may
			.
			.
			.
I want to underline a couple aspects of this situation:
1.  Although Python doesn't enforce (this kind of)
    encapsulation, there's good style that makes
    it a matter of convention (and, for those in a
    belligerent mood, argument that that's all C++
    does, anyway);
2.  Encapsulation's important.  However, whether
    it should be a compile-time guarantee or a more
    dynamic matter is also an arguable point.  As
    Mr. Dunkan notes, Python's choice never seems
    to be a problem in practice.

    More generally, Python is quite clean.  It has
    a few consistent syntactic controversies--signi-
    ficant white space, (un)encapsulation, a few
    perceived deficiencies in assignment and
    looping--but the remarkable thing is that each
    of these is, from all the evidence, more of an
    issue for spectators than participants.  Python's
    made the right choices.  It works well.  Even if,
    say, significant white space discomforts you on
    some abstract level, my prediction is that you'll
    quickly come to like it once you try it.
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at NeoSoft.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://starbase.neosoft.com/~claird/home.html


From fredrik at effbot.org  Sat Jan 27 05:38:46 2001
From: fredrik at effbot.org (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 10:38:46 GMT
Subject: marshal doesn't work with "file-like" objects
References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010126135016.029c4d90@mail.mindspring.com> <mailman.980540325.4462.python-list@python.org> <94t1bi$m73$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <Wyxc6.9225$AH6.1522817@newsc.telia.net>

Chuck wrote:
> Does anyone really believe that there is any difference in performance?
> Supporting file-like objects would add the overhead of a message pass.

"a couple of thousand message passes", that is.

> But what's taking place here is file I/O that easily ranges from 1K to
> 40K (according to my dir *.pyc).

marshal does lots of single byte reads.  the're only one fread
in marshal, and that's used to read string literals.

> I seriously doubt that if message passing were suddenly employed [a]
> anyone would notice and [b] any Python benchmarks would change.

maybe, but people sure notice when we *improved* marshal's
performance:

    http://deja.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=715125331

> I win <0.95 wink>.

nope.

Cheers /F




From grey at despair.rpglink.com  Fri Jan 19 09:47:05 2001
From: grey at despair.rpglink.com (Steve Lamb)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 14:47:05 -0000
Subject: Why no isexec, isread, iswrite, etc (was: I must be missing something obvious: os.path.isexecutable?)
References: <slrn96enju.g1v.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <slrn96ep7c.g1v.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <slrn96erlf.h11.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <uy9w89kjb.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com>
Message-ID: <slrn96gkr9.k1v.grey@teleute.rpglink.com>

On 19 Jan 2001 00:29:44 -0500, David Bolen <db3l at fitlinxx.com> wrote:
>I'm sure it wouldn't be too terrible to spec out something that is
>well-defined and augment the module.  But it's also not too much
>effort to just stat the file (which is going to happen anyway) and
>then apply the heuristic that you want in your particular situation.

    I'm not sure I agree that "Well, what should be done" and "this is how it
works anyway" are good reasons to have 1/2 an example.  I certainly wasn't the
first to look for those under os.path after seeing the other "is"es there.
Define a behavior and do it /or/ somehow provite a pointer in the
documentation from those obvious starting points for the common functionality
to the stat macros.  

    Bah, I'll look into trying to define behavior and see how to implement it,
though.  Good project to keep me busyin Python.  :)

-- 
         Steve C. Lamb         | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your
         ICQ: 5107343          | main connection to the switchboard of souls.
-------------------------------+---------------------------------------------


From erno-news at erno.iki.fi  Wed Jan 31 05:03:04 2001
From: erno-news at erno.iki.fi (Erno Kuusela)
Date: 31 Jan 2001 12:03:04 +0200
Subject: How do you lock your web app data?
References: <956uqd$6st$1@newsreaderg1.core.theplanet.net> <958j810o2e@news2.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <kun1c83up3.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>

In article <958j810o2e at news2.newsguy.com>, "Alex Martelli"
<aleaxit at yahoo.com> writes:

[snip]

| Hey, I bet even GADFLY would do, if you ran it in a central process
| and had your scripts talk to that process with Gadfly's TCP/IP
| client/server protocol (but I have no experience of *that*) --
| but I don't think you'd get atomic transactions then, and I think
| they ARE important.

are you sure about this? seems to me like gadfly claims to
support transactions (<URL:http://www.chordate.com/kwParsing/gadfly.html>).

  -- erno


From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Jan  2 23:41:14 2001
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2001 23:41:14 -0500
Subject: why no "do : until"?
References: <92jj3j$ff7$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <slrn94shbe.150.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <X8s36.2731$Qb7.305339@newsb.telia.net> <slrn94smds.150.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <FOt36.17$vd1.2224@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com> <slrn94t1vj.150.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <3A4E95FD.D6C737A7@engcorp.com> <slrn94tqkh.150.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <tpr46.7782$4c.597534@ruti.visi.com> <slrn954h6p.rgv.grey@teleute.rpglink.com>
Message-ID: <3A52AD6A.62D043A2@engcorp.com>

Steve Lamb wrote:
> 
> On Tue, 02 Jan 2001 21:06:33 GMT, Grant Edwards <grante at visi.com> wrote:
> >Requiring edits to two possibly widely seperated places in the source code to
> >change a single algorithm value is (in my experience) going to cause a bug
> >some day.
> 
>     Makes you wonder how all those people who had to init variables in the
> past got through life with such problems facing them, huh?  I mean, the
> variable is right there before the loop.  The horrors, the agony, oh my, this
> is worse than y2k!  Call out the national guard, the world is going to END
> because someone cant make an edit in two OBVIOUS places!  

You are a cowboy-hacker type of programmer, not one working as a serious
software engineer in a group environment, right?  Or, if the latter, your
management just hasn't caught on yet.

Seriously, nobody who really programs for a living instead of as a hobby
should (in my opinion) have the attitude you express above towards a
maintenance issue such as this.  In my opinion.  Nothing personal.

> Hell, I'm more
> concerned with a lack of braces that vim can spot so I can bounce on the % key
> to get from one end of a block to the other quickly than with a variable being
> unedited when it is sitting at the top of the loop.  Guess which one I do
> thousands of times more than the other?  Not saying Python needs braces, just
> pointing out there are elements of it which run against other languages 

I'm hoping to find an editor sophisticated enough to allow me to write a
macro which does this kind of thing (bounce around a block) even with
Python code.  Only problem is, it would probably have to be programmable
*using* Python (which coincidentally VIM is), but for other reasons I
would need a MODELESS editor (dang VIM anyway! :-).

> the tools devised for them that this is so insignificant it is a wonder anyone
> has the energy to argue the matter for over a WEEK now.  GET OVER IT!

There are just too many idealists around here, hoping against hope that
their (oops, our) efforts will result in some incremental improvement in
the quality of software development.  Maybe somebody was listening,
somewhere, and has learned something from the exchange, anal though it
might seem to some.


From echuck at mindspring.com  Wed Jan 31 14:28:12 2001
From: echuck at mindspring.com (echuck at mindspring.com)
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 19:28:12 GMT
Subject: executing JavaScript from Python
Message-ID: <959ovu$sqd$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

urllib.urlopen() can be useful for grabbing a web page and checking its
contents. However, JavaScript generated content throws a monkey wrench
in this technique.

Has anyone cobbled together a means to invoke JavaScript from Python,
possibly including the DOM and the substitution of output into the HTML
file?

-Chuck


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From mikael at isy.liu.se  Mon Jan 29 10:02:52 2001
From: mikael at isy.liu.se (Mikael Olofsson)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 16:02:52 +0100 (MET)
Subject: Books
In-Reply-To: <3a757f33$1@netnews.web.de>
Message-ID: <XFMail.010129160252.mikael@isy.liu.se>

On 29-Jan-01 Volker Jahns wrote:
 > >search for PYTHON and you will have greater success.
 > >
 >  Thanks, but the pyhton.org should lern PHP... .-)

Write the following a thousand times:

 Python is spelled python, not phyton or pyhton.
 Python is spelled python, not phyton or pyhton.
 Python is spelled python, not phyton or pyhton.
 Python is spelled python, not phyton or pyhton.
 ....

Then try again...

/Mikael

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WWW:     http://www.dtr.isy.liu.se/dtr/staff/mikael               
Phone:   +46 - (0)13 - 28 1343
Telefax: +46 - (0)13 - 28 1339
Date:    29-Jan-01
Time:    16:00:44

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From fredrik at effbot.org  Thu Jan 11 10:41:05 2001
From: fredrik at effbot.org (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 15:41:05 GMT
Subject: Module for reading tarfiles?
References: <mailman.979218611.2392.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <luk76.5494$Qb7.762890@newsb.telia.net>

A.M. Kuchling wrote:
> Does anyone have any code for reading tar archives in Python?  A long
> time ago, Clemens Hintze wrote a tarlib.py that was on python.org, but
> it no longer seems to be there.

>>> from PIL import TarIO

Cheers /F




From china at nospam.com  Wed Jan 31 02:30:57 2001
From: china at nospam.com (Albert Chin-A-Young)
Date: 31 Jan 2001 07:30:57 GMT
Subject: Python programmer needed (addition to urllib2 and HTTPS support)
Message-ID: <958evh$4k3$1@bob.news.rcn.net>

We're in need of a contract Python programmer for the following:
  1. Allow connecting to a host with urlopen() which requires
     BASIC HTTP authentication with a proxy (via urllib2.py).
     This should address bug #125217:
     http://sourceforge.net/bugs/?func=detailbug&bug_id=125217&group_id=5470
  2. Allow connecting to a host with urlopen() which requires
     BASIC HTTP authentication with a proxy that requires
     BASIC HTTP authentication (via urllib2.py).
  3. Support for non-authenticated clients to connect to a
     HTTPS server
  4. Support for a client to authenticate the HTTPS host (to
     verify that it's certificate is valid)

What we might consider adding (depends on cost):
  1. Support for authenticated clients to connect to a HTTPS server.

Please note that solutions to the four items above must be rolled back
into the main Python distribution (implies the "community" and the
Python developers need to agree on the adopted solution).

-- 
albert chin (china at thewrittenword dot com)


From vplatt at my-deja.com  Wed Jan 24 16:20:01 2001
From: vplatt at my-deja.com (vplatt at my-deja.com)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 21:20:01 GMT
Subject: windows, python, gtk
References: <94nd0r$o0v$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <94ngtl$s1h$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

There is a port of the gimp to Windows, which had a gtk port in it.  I
suspect you'll need to start there.  FWIW though, the Windows version
of the gimp I use isn't exactly stellar in the reliability dept, but
that's probably improved since I last grabbed a copy 3+ months ago
(version 1.1.24).

Here's the page I used to get it:
http://user.sgic.fi/~tml/gimp/win32/downloads.html

I haven't tried using it with Python though, so YMMV big time.  Try
Freshmeat.net for GTK -> Python bindings.  Also, GTK itself may have
bindings right in it; it's worth a look.


In article <94nd0r$o0v$1 at nnrp1.deja.com>,
  abnerstransky at my-deja.com wrote:
> Hey
> I'm looking for the gtk toolkit for windows to use with python 2.0 for
> windows, and am having trouble finding it. Any ideas?
>
> Thanks
> abner


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From michael at stroeder.com  Sat Jan 27 14:14:03 2001
From: michael at stroeder.com (Michael =?iso-8859-1?Q?Str=F6der?=)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 20:14:03 +0100
Subject: Interested in a Crypto-SIG?
References: <3A72C8A3.C4B4D69A@stroeder.com> <slrn97650f.i1.amk@mira.erols.com>
Message-ID: <3A731DFB.3CF394C3@stroeder.com>

"A.M. Kuchling" wrote:
> 
> On Sat, 27 Jan 2001 14:09:55 +0100,
>         Michael Str?der <michael at stroeder.com> wrote:
> >I would like to propose a Crypto-SIG. The goal is to define Pythonic
> >class APIs for various cryptographic and related standards to enable
> >developers to use a unified API for implementing crypto-enabled
> >applications in Python independent of the underlying implementations
> >(basically inspired by Sun's Java crypto-related APIs).
> 
> Are you the same person who proposed this yesterday on the Meta-SIG?

No. But good to know that I'm not the only one. ;-)

> Anyway, I'll give you the same answer: a unified API would be an
> excellent idea, but a SIG seems unnecessary.  There's already a
> python-crypto list at egroups which could be used to coordinate work
> on such a unified API

The mailing list on egroups could be a start. But I would prefer
something which looks more "official" and is tied closer to Python
activities itself. I'm willing to act as a SIG-coordinator.

> and the main issue is probably developer time.

Yes. But everybody can save time if it's not necessary any more to
reinvent wheel for every crypto package.

Ciao, Michael.


From max at alcyone.com  Mon Jan  1 17:48:25 2001
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Mon, 01 Jan 2001 14:48:25 -0800
Subject: Recursion
References: <mailman.978382742.16948.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3A510939.225AD72D@alcyone.com>

Bob Calco wrote:

> 1. Why the vast difference between the languages? Is this apparent
> limitation in Python deliberate, or the consequence of some other
> design
> decision?

Python is strongly typed, as opposed to Perl which is weakly typed.  In
Perl all numbers are stored in floating point (whether you realize it or
not).  In Python you're only dealing with ints.  Python has a "long"
type for arbitrary precision integers; you should be using that instead.
(If you're serious about a factorial implementation, you wouldn't use
recursion, either.)

In Perl you'd be using the default floating point implementation, which
is obviously not ideal for calculating a large integer (floating point
numbers have a limited precision).  In Python, with longs, the integers
can get as large as you like and Python will still support them to full
precision.

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, US / 37 20 N 121 53 W / ICQ16063900 / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Never had very much to say / Laugh last, laugh longest
\__/ Des'ree
    Kepler's laws / http://www.alcyone.com/max/physics/kepler/
 A proof of Kepler's laws.


From scarblac at pino.selwerd.nl  Wed Jan  3 10:51:31 2001
From: scarblac at pino.selwerd.nl (Remco Gerlich)
Date: 3 Jan 2001 15:51:31 GMT
Subject: split hangs
References: <mailman.978392581.24444.python-list@python.org> <mailman.978535924.1761.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrn956idr.rcp.scarblac@pino.selwerd.nl>

davide at mercurio.localdomain wrote in comp.lang.python:
> >Then you had better start reading better stuff <wink>.  I'll repeat the
> >original recommendation:  Jeffrey [note: I erroneously said Jonathan before]
> >Friedl's excellent book "Mastering Regular Expressions" (O'Reilly).
> 
> Sorry, but the dragon book (Aho Sethi, Ullman), Introduction to automata
> theory, languages and computation (Hopcroft, Ullman) and thousand of others
> books on language theory are surely a better reference <wink>.
> 
> >There are two "obvious" ways to implement a regexp engine.  
> 
> Indeed, regexp matchig is quite simple.
> 
> One extreme
> >Friedl calls "the NFA" way (although he's using "NFA" in a sense that
> >differs from its technical meaning in the literature).  
> 
> Yes, reading your post I understand that the reason is these are not NFA,
> "backreferences" are not part of regualar expressions and so we are not
> talking of regular languages.

But of course, regular expressions *as used in program languages* typically
do backreferences. That means that they're officially not regexps at all,
but *if* you want to learn about them, the "Mastering Regular Expressions"
book is a lot better than the theory books.

Nevertheless, formal language theory and finite automatons are nice
things to study :-)

-- 
Remco Gerlich


From anderson at boi.hp.com  Fri Jan 26 08:48:38 2001
From: anderson at boi.hp.com (Bill Anderson)
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 06:48:38 -0700
Subject: curses, python20/152, RH70/62, postgresql problems
References: <94731d$9j4$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <slrn96fd9n.52f.amk@207-172-36-33.s33.tnt6.ann.va.dialup.rcn.com> <mailman.979923026.29932.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3A718036.13B5B3BF@boi.hp.com>

D-Man wrote:
> 
> On Fri, Jan 19, 2001 at 03:18:16AM +0000, A.M. Kuchling wrote:
> | Let's tackle these one by one.
> | On Thu, 18 Jan 2001 15:44:49 GMT, dubal at my-deja.com <dubal at my-deja.com> wrote:
> | >We then tried to compile Py20 source on RH7. It
> | >gives some LONG_BIT error and stops.
> |
> | This is not a GCC problem; it is a glibc problem.  Red Hat has
> | released an updated RPM for glibc, so installing it should let you
> | compile Python 2.0 without difficulty.  Trying to use kgcc wouldn't
> | help, because it's not the compiler's fault.
> |
> 
> Could you provide some more details on the glibc problem?  I used to
> have RH7 and didn't find anything obviously wrong in the headers, so I
> assumed it was the compiler that wasn't doing the comparison
> correctly.  I solved the problem by manually editing the header (
> <bits/xopen_lim.h> ).  I have since upgraded to Debian, but am still
> curious.
> 
> Basically, for RH7 users : you can't use any rpms that people provide.

Basically, you are wrong.

I have many rpms I've installed on this (and several other RH7) that
were built on non-RH7 Machines. In fact I have many that I built on
RH6.[0-2] installed here on this very 7.0 box. (Part of this is due to
the 6-way XEON box still running 6.2 ... for now)

> RH used an incompatible compiler, so you must compile stuff yourself.
> (Or find RH7 specific rpms)  Also note that stuff compiled with newer
> versions of gcc (3.0 when it is released) for newer dists (I assume RH
> will use 3.0 when it is released) won't work on RH7 either.  Rpms made


You mean like how stuff compiled for RH6.x won't run on 5.x because
there was a glibc change there too? That is a result of the change in
glibc, and not RH. When any distribution (ewven one you build from
scratch) moves to a newer major version of glibc, then programs compiled
against that glibc will not work on earlier versions. Now, there is the
option of installing backwards compatible libraries to compile against,
so you _can_ compile apps on a newer distribution aimed at an older one,
it just takes extra effort (as it should, really).

Of course, you could upgrade the 6.x to have the newer glibc (and all
the toys that go with it), and it will work fine. In fact, I did this
with an alpha machine. That machine started with 5.0, and has been
manually upgraded via rpms to 7.0, no use of the RH installer to do it
(yes it was a bit time consuming ;). Works fine. That's one of the neat
things about rpms; it isn't that difficult to upgrade what you need. :)


> for RH7 or RH6 (or anything older) won't work on the a dist with the
> new compiler.

Not neccesarily, but possibly, and then again, it may very well be app
(code) specific.

The big issue with RPMS made on 7.0 is that they use a newer version of
RPM that is incompatible with the stock RH6.x rpm version. Of course, if
that were the only issue, you could just upgrade the rpm version.

-- 
Bill Anderson               Linux Specialist
Modular Network Storage     R&D           
Random Quote:
    Portable: survives system reboot.


From erno-news at erno.iki.fi  Fri Jan  5 19:53:13 2001
From: erno-news at erno.iki.fi (Erno Kuusela)
Date: 06 Jan 2001 02:53:13 +0200
Subject: How robust is Python ?
References: <9354f9$vbi$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <LOBBJMHOIFOLFIPFANHJAEJFCHAA.zope@TheWebsons.com> <mailman.978716227.31692.python-list@python.org> <mailman.978721929.3640.python-list@python.org> <12FDE17E0FE881CA.A0D56446193FD374.16955A7253A18953@lp.airnews.net>
Message-ID: <ku4rzdmrgm.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>

In article
<12FDE17E0FE881CA.A0D56446193FD374.16955A7253A18953 at lp.airnews.net>,
claird at starbase.neosoft.com (Cameron Laird) writes:

| Why cron rather than init?

modifying inittab needs root.

  -- erno


From chris_barker at my-deja.com  Wed Jan 10 12:50:13 2001
From: chris_barker at my-deja.com (chris_barker at my-deja.com)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 17:50:13 GMT
Subject: why is this namespace weirdness happening?
References: <93i3f7$122$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <93i7cg$55i$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

In article <93i3f7$122$1 at nnrp1.deja.com>,
  Preston Landers <prestonlanders at my-deja.com> wrote:

> It seems that on the file1 "bar" line, if the 'import file2' above it
is
> commented out, the file2.bar reference will fail (file2 being the
> unrecognized item.)  Despite the 'import file2' at the top of the
file.
> It seems to be due to the 'import file2' following the statement.
> Python seems to be scanning ahead for imports...?

Actually, this is quite consistant wioth Python's way of dealing with
namespaces in functions. see this example:

a = 5
def spam():
	print "a :", a
	a = 6
	print "a :", a

The first reference to "a" will fail, but if you comment out the "a = 6"
line, it will access the a already defined. What has happened is that
when Python byte-compiled the function, it noticed that an "a" has been
defined in the function, so it won't use the global "a". NOte that
defining "a" in the function does NOT change the value of the global
"a".

Importing is the same. when you import a module in a function, you are
assiging the name, "file2" to the contents of the module in "file2.py"
IN THAT FUNCTION. Python knows you are doing this, so it won't let you
use the global version of that name.

> I know that doing an import inside a function is not neccesary if you
> have imported the module at the top of the file.  However, it seems
> strange that it only fails if there is an odd number of import
> statements for that module.

It's not a matter of odd number, it's a matter of at least one, and if
you do import it, you have to do so before using it. If you leave only
the first import in place, it will work fine. Any additional imports in
the function will do nothing.

The reason you might want to import the module in your function is that
you may not know know what was done to it outside the function. For
example:

import file2

new_name = file2
del file2

def foo():
	import file2
	# the line below fails if the line above is cmted out
	# but works fine if present
	print "file2 bar: ", file2.bar
	#import file2
	print "file2 baz: ", file2.baz


foo()

without the import line in foo(), it will fail. Note that you are still
working with the saem module, even if it has been renamed, as is in this
example:

import file2

new_name = file2
del file2

def foo():
	import file2
	# the line below fails if the line above is cmted out
	# but works fine if present
	print "file2 bar: ", file2.bar
	#import file2
	print "file2 baz: ", file2.baz
	file2.baz = 10

print "new_name.baz:",new_name.baz

foo()

print "new_name.baz:",new_name.baz

And yes, this does take some getting used to, but it does follow some
pretty simple logic, once you get python's "everything is a reference"
and "mutable types" concepts.

-Chris




Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From fredrik at effbot.org  Sat Jan 20 12:28:33 2001
From: fredrik at effbot.org (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 17:28:33 GMT
Subject: Tabbing/Spaces
References: <mailman.979964602.24742.python-list@python.org> <B68F2A7F.91B1%bobhicks@adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <5Vja6.7793$AH6.1236050@newsc.telia.net>

Robert Hicks wrote:
> So what is the answer then? Can't anything get a simple answer! :-)

tab size != indentation size

(now read tim's and emile's posts again, and you'll see the light)

Cheers /F




From rwklee at home.com  Sat Jan 13 17:31:24 2001
From: rwklee at home.com (Rick Lee)
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 22:31:24 GMT
Subject: Python Object Editor?
Message-ID: <3A60D73B.71F07FEE@home.com>

There seems to be at least a few Python object browsers available, eg.,
PythonWin's object browser, and Python 2.0 Mac's IDE has a Namespace
browser.  Is there an editor that not only allows browsing of these
objects, but also changing them?

- Rick Lee



From vonehr at ira.uka.de  Thu Jan  4 06:07:18 2001
From: vonehr at ira.uka.de (Markus von Ehr)
Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 12:07:18 +0100
Subject: Playing an .mov, .avi etc. file??
References: <92vsna$hdq$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <3A545966.F8794D69@ira.uka.de>

harrc at my-deja.com wrote:
> 
> Does anyone know of a good way from Python to play a video file (.avi
> or .mpg or .mov)?  Or even better, a way to play slected tracks off a
> DVD?
> 
> Any info is helpful!
> 
> Chad Harrington
> 
> Sent via Deja.com
> http://www.deja.com/

On windows systems you can use the win32com module and use OLE/COM
control mechanism. I tried to use MediaPlayer, but had problems.
If you use windows and COM control, please answer in case of success.

# Test dynamic policy

import win32com
import pythoncom
import win32com.client

w=win32com.client.Dispatch("MediaPlayer.MediaPlayer.1")


w.AutoStart=1
w.FileName="c:\Programme\Python\ex1.wav"

w.Play()


From loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de  Mon Jan  1 08:21:29 2001
From: loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de (Martin von Loewis)
Date: 01 Jan 2001 14:21:29 +0100
Subject: Interesting behaviour of the assignment
References: <mailman.978295158.17661.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <p6qk88fs90m.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>

"Tim Peters" <tim.one at home.com> writes:

> Now "is" is bulletproof.  A stranger way:
> 
> SPAM = []
> EGGS = []

First I thought: wow, that must be the shortest way to create
"enumerated" objects. But then I noticed a flaw: SPAM == EGGS.  So I
still like the FoodType class approach best, although this restriction
can be worked around with

SPAM = []
EGGS = [SPAM]
WHAT_COMES_NEXT = [EGGS]

Regards,
Martin


From kirschh at lionbioscience.com  Wed Jan 17 03:20:44 2001
From: kirschh at lionbioscience.com (Harald Kirsch)
Date: 17 Jan 2001 09:20:44 +0100
Subject: Command language definition
References: <mailman.979714818.20707.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <yv2bst6pp2b.fsf@lionsp093.lion-ag.de>

Rolf Fischer <fischer at intes.de> writes:

> Dear Python specialists,
> 
> could you give me some hints whether you would use python to setup
> a command language for a gui in order to be able to establish
> a batch mode (with automated testing options) ?
> 
> Do I have to program each command with its allowed paramters, etc ?
> Or is there a combination with another tool that you would recommend ?

Why don't you simply code the (additional) commands as python
functions at let the user use them, thereby having python as the
command language. Of course, if the user uses wrong syntax, (s)he will
be left with python error messages. The question is if you can do any
better if you do your own parsing and validation. Chances are you end
up with a new python/tcl/perl/guile/younameit interpreter.

  Harald Kirsch

-- 
----------------+------------------------------------------------------
Harald Kirsch   | kirschh at lionbioscience.com | "How old is the epsilon?"
LION Bioscience | +49 6221 4038 172          |        -- Paul Erd?s
       *** Please do not send me copies of your posts. ***


From hancock at earthlink.net  Wed Jan 17 19:56:53 2001
From: hancock at earthlink.net (Terry Hancock)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 16:56:53 -0800
Subject: Automatic Documentation Tools?
Message-ID: <3A663F55.67BCA869@earthlink.net>

I've seen a number of automatically generated documentation
on the web for C/C++ source code.  Is there anything like
this for Python?  I've taken over documenting a piece of
code, and it would be nice to at list have a list of classes,
attributes, and methods from which to work.  Seems like it
ought to be automateable, but I don't know the fastest way
to do it.

Any suggestions?

-- 
Terry Hancock
hancock at earthlink.net



From porter at et.byu.edu  Thu Jan 18 14:55:36 2001
From: porter at et.byu.edu (C. Porter Bassett)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 12:55:36 -0700
Subject: os.popen and popen2
In-Reply-To: <9472c7$8u9$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
References: <MIo96.76568$eB2.6160368@news.infostrada.it> <9472c7$8u9$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GHP.4.21.0101181253420.15227-100000@don.et.byu.edu>

In the documentation, it says that the windows version of os.popen was
unstable prior to python 2.0.  Does anybody know if this applies equally
to the popen2 module?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
C. Porter Bassett     porter at et.byu.edu   http://www.et.byu.edu/~porter
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Pretend like this is a really witty saying." - Anonymous
--------------------------------------------------------------------------




From pj at sgi.com  Thu Jan 11 17:29:37 2001
From: pj at sgi.com (Paul Jackson)
Date: 11 Jan 2001 22:29:37 GMT
Subject: Speed of Python vs. Perl
References: <mailman.979205181.25734.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <93lc4h$o1qco$1@fido.engr.sgi.com>

|> The reasons for Python's relative startup sloth have been
|> discussed here often; a big one is that Python runs around
|> looking for Python files (like site.py and sitecustomize.py)
|> at startup, and typically does a big pile of failing fstats
|> while failing to find those files along the PYTHONPATH.

I believe that it's actually more cpu bound, parsing the imports
once it finds them, than it is disk bound, trying to stat or
open them.

See further my more detailed analysis:

    http://deja.com/getdoc.xp?AN=652983262
    Subject: Re: How does Python compare to ?
    Date: 07/31/2000
    Author: Paul Jackson <pj at sgi.com>
-- 
                          I won't rest till it's the best ...
                          Manager, Linux System Software
                          Paul Jackson <pj at sgi.com> 1.650.933.1373


From wayne.izatt at _fspam_myself.com  Tue Jan  2 02:56:41 2001
From: wayne.izatt at _fspam_myself.com (W.Izatt)
Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2001 07:56:41 GMT
Subject: Electronic edition of 'The Standard Python Library'
References: <t7746.63812$59.17990421@news3.rdc1.on.home.com>
Message-ID: <ZQf46.83865$df5.2962770@news1.crdva1.bc.home.com>

I had a nightmare getting my copy of this book to "work". My office is
behind a firewall, so of course the registration process would not work.
Repeated calls to Fatbrain (more than 10) did not produce results. Emails
were replied to by bots.

I eventaully carried a printer home and printed the book. It is great, and
has served me well. It just doesn't feel good to be treated like a criminal
after I've paid for the goods.

Don't buy from Fatbrain. I don't know about the others.

cheers


"Tom" <NoSpam at NoSpam.com> wrote in message
news:t7746.63812$59.17990421 at news3.rdc1.on.home.com...
> I tried to use my electronic copy of 'The Standard Python Library' today
> (Jan 1), but was unable to.
>
> It is possible that I did something wrong - I have no idea - but I would
> caution anyone else who might be considering buying this.  The book is
fine,
> but the format is a complete hassle.  You pay your money, but you don't
> really get the book.
>
> I have nothing against the author trying to make money from his work - I
> just don't like it when copy protection schemes impede the ligit use of
the
> product (usually software) to such an extent.
>
> Is there any other book like it (ie. the standard library with sample
code)?
>
> Tom.
>
>
>
>




From bww00 at amdahl.com  Wed Jan 17 13:37:44 2001
From: bww00 at amdahl.com (Bryan Webb)
Date: 17 Jan 2001 18:37:44 GMT
Subject: help with code for combinations/permutations
References: <944adl$2bf@dispatch.concentric.net>
Message-ID: <944opo$2b9@dispatch.concentric.net>

Thanks to all that responded.

I wasnt as clear as I should have been. (as usual)
I really need to come up with all the possible sums of the numbers in the
list ie. 1 , sum(1 + 2), sum(1 + 2 + 3) ,sum( 1+2+4),sum( 1 + 3) and so on.

Thanks for all the help
Bryan.


Bryan Webb wrote in message <944adl$2bf at dispatch.concentric.net>...
>HI,
>    I have a list with 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16 in it,
>I need to come up with all possible combinations of the numbers in the
above
>list ie. 1 +2, 1+2+3, 1+2+3+4, 1+2+3+4+5 and so on.
> I will have multiple lists to deal with, larger and smaller.
>Any help or ideas will be appreciated
>
>Thanks
>Bryan Webb
>
>




From wlipp at web.de  Fri Jan 12 18:03:49 2001
From: wlipp at web.de (Wolfgang Lipp)
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 23:03:49 -0000
Subject: Again and Re: my uthreads execute serially
Message-ID: <000a01c07ceb$ecb94ee0$e5460f9a@sewon.ac.kr>

Gletschersorry for the somewhat cluttered appearance of the previous message. i posted the same question to python-list at python.org
("gatewayed bidirectionally into comp.lang.python", jesus), and Mike Fletcher <mfletch at tpresence.com> was so kind to answer in no
time @ all. here's the answer and the posting again. -w

..............................

Same here, works fine with 1.5.4 (1.5.2) version of stackless, but doesn't work for the 2.0 version.  No idea how I missed that, but
it's definitely failing to switch contexts without an explicit switchContext.  I have no time today to track it down this weekend,
maybe Chris can take a look? (Note, adding a switchContext does make the threads run in parallel, but that shouldn't be necessary).

uthread9 does complain on my machine, but I'd though it was the posting an exception to another thread test (which prints out the
traceback).  Should have had an explicit test for such a simple thing I suppose.

Sorry about that,
Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: Wolfgang Lipp
To: python-list at python.org
Sent: 1/12/2001 11:06 AM
Subject: my uthreads execute serially



can anybody help me with this problem? i am using
stackless python 2.0 on win98se, on a laptop. when
i execute the following program:

    import uthread9 as uthread
    import time

    def timer_elapsed( started ):
        return time.time() - started

    def timer_over( started, stoptime ):
        return timer_elapsed( started ) > stoptime

    def timer( letter, stoptime ):
        started = time.time()
        print "%s is started" % letter
        while not timer_over( started, stoptime ):
            pass
        print '%s is done after %3.2fs' % ( letter, timer_elapsed( started ) )

    uthread.new( timer, 'a', 5 )
    uthread.new( timer, 'b', 3 )
    uthread.new( timer, 'c', 2 )

    uthread.run()

my output looks like this:

    a is started
    a is done after 5.05s
    b is started
    b is done after 3.02s
    c is started
    c is done after 2.04s

which clearly indicates that the threads do *not*
run in the parallel. moreover, the outputs from
all the examples on
http://world.std.com/~wware/uthread.html also
point into interpreting them as being executed one
thread after the other. since all the snippets as
well as the test suite u1.py from that page work
without complaining, i guess that there is no
problem with my installation.

furthermore, i tried a few examples using the
threading module, and the results appear to be ok.
because of this and because uthreads are not, to
my understanding and unlike the threading module,
dependent on the os, it can't be my laptop that's
to small to fit in threads :-| ...
can anyone help me parallelize my uthreads?


yours,

-wolf








From dsh8290 at rit.edu  Mon Jan  8 14:33:43 2001
From: dsh8290 at rit.edu (D-Man)
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 14:33:43 -0500
Subject: Web devel with python. Whats the best route?
In-Reply-To: <93dfft077p@news1.newsguy.com>; from aleaxit@yahoo.com on Mon, Jan 08, 2001 at 11:30:26PM +0100
References: <mailman.978910629.6814.python-list@python.org> <93cqvi0191h@news1.newsguy.com> <mailman.978985688.26505.python-list@python.org> <93dfft077p@news1.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <20010108143343.G4159@rit.edu>

On Mon, Jan 08, 2001 at 11:30:26PM +0100, Alex Martelli wrote:
| "Lele Gaifax" <lele at seldati.it> wrote in message
| 
| > PS: Alex, un ciao particolare! Ti ricordi di me? Sublink... :)
| 
| E vorrei vedere, che ci si potesse scordare della gloriosa sublink.org e
| di tutti i suoi protagonisti...!-)  Ciao Lele!
| 

You do realize that it's impolite to "whisper" in public?  Now I'm
curious to know what you are talking about.  But maybe it's my own
fault for being "deaf"  <wink>.

I-really-do-have-a-(mild)-heritary-hearing-loss-ly y'rs -D




From jef.mangelschots at iname.com  Wed Jan  3 16:10:44 2001
From: jef.mangelschots at iname.com (Jef Mangelschots)
Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 21:10:44 GMT
Subject: problem compiling Python 2.0 on Sun Solaris
Message-ID: <3a539455.17521624@news.wanadoo.fr>

Hi,

I just downloaded the sources for Python 2.0 from 
http://www.python.org/ftp/python/2.0/BeOpen-Python-2.0.tar.gz

ALL the text files are unrecognizable to my system because each line
is ended with 0x0D 0x0A, common for Windows NT systems, but not for
Unix systems.

Does anybody have a suggestion ?

Following is the version info for my machine:

Machine hardware:   sun4u
OS version:         5.6
Processor type:     sparc
Hardware:           SUNW,Ultra-4


greetings
Jef



From glandrum at my-deja.com  Wed Jan 17 09:51:09 2001
From: glandrum at my-deja.com (Greg Landrum)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 14:51:09 GMT
Subject: Are there Tkinter examples somewhere?
References: <20010117000807.198D9E951@mail.python.org> <mailman.979701138.11862.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <944bgq$ttg$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

In article <mailman.979701138.11862.python-list at python.org>,
  Terry Hancock <hancock at earthlink.net> wrote:
> Hi,
> I'm trying to learn how to use the Tkinter toolkit
> to build an applications in Python, and I'm
> having trouble fathoming how to use all the widgets.
>

John Grayson has already pointed towards the sample code from his book,
but I guess he was too modest to recommend the book itself.  So I'll
do it.

John's book "Python and Tkinter Programming" (from Manning publications)
is a good overview of Tkinter and includes a hefty amount of sample
code.  There's also a reference section at the back which can be
quite useful.  It's well worth picking up a copy if you are planning
on using Tkinter.

-greg


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From p at mjs400.co.uk  Fri Jan 19 00:07:37 2001
From: p at mjs400.co.uk (Pete)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 06:07:37 +0100
Subject: I will kill my Python
References: <mailman.979852022.13720.python-list@python.org> <947r18$rdt$1@news.online.de> <948f09$i96$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <3A67CB98.EAC73B8@mjs400.co.uk>

thelazydogsback at my-deja.com wrote:
> On a related topic, I've seen some Microsoft bashing here as well (not
> just this post.) There's certainly nothing wrong with that (It's a
> profession for some) but I must say that in some cases it reduces
> Python's credibility. I want to see people using it because it works
I want to see bash.  Bash Bash Bash Bash.
:)


From rcameszREMOVETHIS at dds.removethistoo.nl  Wed Jan 17 11:07:54 2001
From: rcameszREMOVETHIS at dds.removethistoo.nl (Robert Amesz)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 16:07:54 GMT
Subject: python compiled to native in less than a year?
References: <mailman.979575676.22737.python-list@python.org> <GqH86.6041$J%.605518@news.flash.net> <G9K86.60439$eB2.5067059@news.infostrada.it> <n7vv39.r1f.ln@demonseed.net> <941koq077o@news1.newsguy.com> <Td596.1181$DI.17855@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <902CA0BF8rcamesz@127.0.0.1>

Steve Holden wrote:

>I suspect that disclosure through the standardization process would
>cause patent applications to fail onthe grounds of "prior art".
>Apparently Arthur C. Clark described the geosynchronous satellite in
>concept in the British magazine "Wireless World", and this was
>enough to ensure that he was refused a patent on it later.

That's not entirely true: A.C. Clarke never applied for a patent at 
least according to him. In a book of his (I can't recall which one) he 
described a conversation he had with a patent lawyer (during a social 
event, IIRC). The lawyer told him that he should have applied for a 
patent *before* making his idea public. However, in this case that 
wouldn't have made any difference, because Clarke had the idea roughly 
a quarter of a century before the first geosynchronous satellite was 
launched, so the patent would have expired anyway.

So be warned: don't get too far ahead of your time. It'll cost you.


Robert Amesz


From tim.one at home.com  Fri Jan 26 15:17:10 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 15:17:10 -0500
Subject: marshal doesn't work with "file-like" objects
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010126135016.029c4d90@mail.mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCOEICILAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Chuck Esterbrook]
>  >>> from StringIO import StringIO
>  >>> f = StringIO()
>  >>> f.write('hi')
>  >>> import marshal
>  >>> marshal.dump(1, f)
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>    File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
> TypeError: marshal.dump() 2nd arg must be file
>
> So is that a bug, a flaw or a feature?

It's functioning as documented (read the docs), and is also functioning as
designed (read next sentence), so it's not a bug.  As the docs say, marshal
is primarily intended for Python's own use in reading and writing .pyc and
.pyo files, and, as the docs don't say, to make it as fast as possible for
those purposes it doesn't support any luxuries.  So it's a feature from
Python's POV, but a flaw from yours.  Python wins <0.9 wink>.

You could do this instead:

    filelikeobject.write(marshal.dumps(object))

Reading a sequence of marshaled values back from a file-like object is more
of a puzzle!




From claird at starbase.neosoft.com  Wed Jan 24 11:13:28 2001
From: claird at starbase.neosoft.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: 24 Jan 2001 10:13:28 -0600
Subject: what GUI, please advise
References: <3A6F0B27.A88D11C9@crepido.com>
Message-ID: <756399CF731B46D9.57530C0D0C9C2171.472E737DF76189F7@lp.airnews.net>

In article <3A6F0B27.A88D11C9 at crepido.com>,
Marco =?iso-8859-1?Q?Seiri=F6?=  <marco at crepido.com> wrote:
>
>There seems to be several good options to choose from when
>it comes to GUI developent with Python.
>
>Can someone say somthing, without killing each other with flames, what
>GUI one should choose?
>
>Stupid and impossible question by the way as everything depends as
>usual... but anyway..
>
>/M
>

No.

Unless you tell us more about yourself.  Do you care about
portability to MacOS?  Does the GNOME widget collection
infatuate you?  Do you prefer or disdain a GUI builder?

In the meantime,
<URL: http://starbase.neosoft.com/~claird/comp.lang.python/python_GUI.html >
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at NeoSoft.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://starbase.neosoft.com/~claird/home.html


From tim.one at home.com  Mon Jan  8 01:29:15 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 01:29:15 -0500
Subject: Speed of Python vs. Perl
In-Reply-To: <TfK56.2727$bR3.738903@typhoon2.ba-dsg.net>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCIEEJIHAA.tim.one@home.com>

[David Allen]
> From what I've seen and heard, if you must have an answer, it's
> probably that perl may have a slight edge.

It depends very much on what you're doing (and how you're doing it <wink>).

> But realistically, the question is loaded, since python and
> perl don't often do things in the same way.

That's for sure.  Over the past week, several wrestled (behind the scenes)
with the relatively poor speed of f.readline() in Python (as compared to
"<f>" in scalar context in Perl).  Turns out that the single biggest
contributor to the difference is that Python reads in a threadsafe way while
Perl doesn't:  Python spends over half its time in system stream
locking/unlocking routines called by threadsafe system getc() (and friends).
Now that we know that, we were able to make large improvements (which will
be in Python 2.1) -- but it will never be as fast as thread-unsafe input.

it's-more-fun-to-use-python-than-to-implement-it<wink>-ly y'rs  - tim




From dalke at acm.org  Thu Jan 11 02:05:27 2001
From: dalke at acm.org (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 00:05:27 -0700
Subject: boolean xor
References: <93ace8$nmo$1@panix3.panix.com> <93i7ne$5dk$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <93i9ff$q4l$1@slb0.atl.mindspring.net> <pI576.21295$ge4.9910815@news2.rdc2.tx.home.com> <93iuj9$jta$1@slb3.atl.mindspring.net> <cLa76.23299$ge4.10502177@news2.rdc2.tx.home.com>
Message-ID: <93jls9$v12$1@slb3.atl.mindspring.net>

Rainer Deyke wrote:
>If you want to play that way, the previous version is also flawed:
>
>not ( (a and b) or (not (a or b)) )
>
>In any case except where both 'a' and 'b' are true, the truth
>value of 'a' is calculated twice.

True, but I didn't really say that.  Here's a
recapitulation of the thread.

Aahz said he was using:
def xor(a,b):
    return not ( (a and b) or (not (a or b)) )

Nicolas (ndev22 at yahoo.com) suggested instead using:
def xor(a,b):
  return not(a==b)

I pointed out that Aahz's expression compares the truth value
of the object and doesn't compare things them directly, so
the proper form of Nicolas' code must use operator.truth.

You applied DeMorgan's law to my quote of Aahz's original
statement, to get:
def xor(a, b):
    return (a or b) and not (a and b)

This was a backtrack on the thread and I was actually pointing
out the difference between your modified form of Aahz's
code and my corrected form of Nicolas's interpretation of
Aahz's.

Got it?  :)

                    Andrew
                    dalke at acm.org






From rcameszREMOVETHIS at dds.removethistoo.nl  Thu Jan 11 19:33:59 2001
From: rcameszREMOVETHIS at dds.removethistoo.nl (Robert Amesz)
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 00:33:59 GMT
Subject: Speed of Python vs. Perl
References: <mailman.979205181.25734.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <902756D7rcamesz@127.0.0.1>

Tim Peters wrote:

>The reasons for Python's relative startup sloth have been discussed
>here often; a big one is that Python runs around looking for Python
>files (like site.py and sitecustomize.py) at startup, and typically
>does a big pile of failing fstats while failing to find those files
>along the PYTHONPATH. 

If that's the case, couldn't at least some of that information be 
cached somewhere? (Somewhat like how *.py files are bytecompiled to 
*.pyc files, and rebuilt as needed).

Admittedly, it might not be trivial to determine when that cache file 
needs to be re-built. When installing something with distutils, that 
file could simply be deleted, of course, but there may be other issues.


Robert Amesz


From dan.rolander at marriott.com  Sat Jan 20 13:48:58 2001
From: dan.rolander at marriott.com (Dan Rolander)
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 13:48:58 -0500
Subject: Using Installer with PyXML
Message-ID: <02c401c08311$a66e8f00$11260340@yin>

Hi Martin,

Thanks for responding. Here are the specifics--

When I use a script with the statements:

    from xml.sax import saxexts, saxlib, saxutils

and

    parser = saxexts.make_parser("xml.sax.drivers.drv_pyexpat")

the packager (Gordon McMillan's Installer) is able to find xml.sax.saxutils,
but is not able to find xml.sax.saxexts or xml.sax.saxlib which actually
reside in _xmlplus.sax.  I can force builder.py to include the entire
_xmlplus tree by adding a packages=_xmlplus line to the [APPZLIB] section of
the .cfg file, but the exe still fails because it is looking for xml.sax.*:

    ImportError: cannot import name xml.sax.saxexts

When I rename _xmlplus to xml and then run builder again without specifying
any additional packages, the EXE fails because it can't find an available
parser:

  File "c:\program files\python20\_xmlplus\sax\saxexts.py", line 77, in
make_parser
    xml.sax._exceptions.SAXReaderNotAvailable: No parsers found

If I manually import the entire PyXML tree (now named 'xml') by adding a
packages=xml line to the .cfg file, I get a little farther but now the exe
isn't able to find pyexpat.

    ImportError: cannot import name xml.parsers.pyexpat

I then try to manually import pyexpat by adding xml.parsers.pyexpat to the
misc line in the [MYCOLLECT] section, but finder.py is not able to find it:

      File "D:\DOCUME~1\Dan\Software\Python\INSTAL~1\MEInc\Dist\finder.py",
line 121, in identify
      ValueError: xml.parsers.pyexpat.pyd not found

If I changed the .cfg line in [MYCOLLECT] to misc=pyexpat.pyd then the core
\DLLs version of pyexpat.pyd is found and put into the dist directory. Now
when the exe is run I get a Windows error stating that the xmlparse.dll
couldn't be located.

I add xmlparse.dll to the misc= line and then I get an error stating that
the xmltok.dll couldn't be found.

I add xmltok.dll to the misc= line and voila! it works!

I then start to wonder why the exe couldn't find xml.parsers.pyexpat.pyd if
I imported the entire xml tree. I study the builder.log some more and
realize that it only imported .py files and not .pyd files! I tried using
directories= instead of packages= and got the same results.

I re-read Gordon's documentation several times and tried different
combinations of .cfg statements but nothing I tried resulted in a good
import of xml.parsers.pyexpat.

I then replaced the core version of pyexpat.pyd in \DLLs with the PyXML
version and found that I could build a good exe without having to manually
include the xmlparse.dll and xmltok.dll. So my final .cfg file looks like
this:

[MYCOLLECT]
type= COLLECT
name= dist_testsax
bindepends= testsax.py
misc= MYSTANDALONE, pyexpat.pyd
debug = 0
excludes = PyWinTypes20.dll, win32api

[MYSTANDALONE]
type= STANDALONE
name= testsax.exe
script= testsax.py
zlib = APPZLIB
userunw = 0
support = 0
debug = 0

[APPZLIB]
name= testsax.pyz
dependencies= testsax.py
excludes= dospath, posixpath, macpath
directories=xml


Now, for another example...

Another test script has the statement:

    from xml.parsers import pyexpat

and

    parser = pyexpat.ParserCreate()

I start with the _xmlplus directory renamed to xml, because I know that's
necessary, and I build a new standalone installation. This time the pyexpat
file is imported to the dist directory as xml.parsers.pyexpat.pyd but the
exe won't import it:

    ImportError: cannot import name xml.parsers.pyexpat

Renaming the file to pyexpat.pyd does not help.

I add packages=xml to the .cfg file and I still have the same problem.

The only fix I can figure out is to change the import statement to:

    import pyexpat

and that works.


So in summary, my tests lead me to conclude the following...

To use Gordon McMillan's Installer to create standalone executables of
scripts that import modules from the PyXML package, the following must be
done (depending on what modules are actually being used):

1.  Replace the core xml directory with the _xmlplus directory, by renaming
_xmlplus to xml.

2.  Copy the PyXML pyexpat.pyd file from the xml.parsers directory to the
<python_root>\DLLs directory.

3.  If pyexpat is needed, either explicitly import it in your script, or
manually include it in the standalone installation by adding an entry to the
misc line in the COLLECT section of the builder .cfg file.

4.  If importing from xml.sax, manually import the entire PyXML tree (source
files only) by specifying either packages=xml or directories=xml in the PYZ
section of the builder .cfg file.

(I have not even tried using DOM yet, so I'm sure there are more issues
there to be found.)

I am by no means an expert on this, so if anybody understands this better
and can provide simpler workarounds I would appreciate hearing it.

Thanks, and I hope this helps someone!
Dan

----- Original Message -----
From: "Martin v. Loewis" <martin at mira.cs.tu-berlin.de>
To: <dan.rolander at marriott.com>
Cc: <gmcm at hypernet.com>; <python-list at python.org>; <xml-sig at python.org>
Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2001 4:55 AM
Subject: Re: [XML-SIG] Using Installer with PyXML


> > "The problem here has to be the way that the xml library tree is
replacing
> > itself with the _xmlplus tree from the later PyXML distribution.  While
> > runtime re-assigns xml to _xmlplus in the __init__ for xml, the import
> > system used by the installation package can't track that, so it still
looks
> > for the actual module tree it loaded from the Python distribution
beneath
> > the name xml."
>
> I'm not sure I understand the problem. Will the packager refuse (or
> forget) to package the xml package, or will it, at runtime, fail to
> load it?
>
> If it manages to package both xml and _xmlplus: when loading xml, will
> it execute xml/__init__.py? In there, there is an import of _xmlplus.
> Will that succeed? If so, what happens to the lines
>
>             import sys
>             sys.modules[__name__] = _xmlplus
>
> Will __name__ have a value of "xml"? Will the assignment succeed?
>
> Now, suppose we do
>
> from xml.sax import sax2exts
>
> In normal Python, this will look for sys.modules["xml"] and start from
> there. Are you saying the installer does not work that way, or that
> even if it starts from there, it still can't figure out to load
> _xmlplus.sax?
>
> > So the question is, will this adversely impact normal Python operation,
and
> > is there a better way?
>
> No, replacing the Python xml package completely with _xmlplus will
> work just fine - except perhaps for the pyexpat difference.
>
> > The other question I have is... Why are there two different pyexpat.pyd
> > files, one as part of the core 2.0 distribution (at only 25 kb) and the
> > other as part of the PyXML distribution in _xmlplus.parsers (at 124 kb).
I
> > haven't been able to get the large one to work using Installer, but the
> > small core file works fine. What is the difference?
>
> There are two differences: the one from PyXML contains a number of bug
> fixes which are not in Python 2. In addition, it contains a literal
> copy of the expat libraries, so that the expat DLLs in the Python core
> should not be needed anymore.
>
> When you say "get the large one to work", what exactly have you tried,
> and how exactly did it fail?
>
> Regards,
> Martin
>





From ssthapa at harper.uchicago.edu  Sun Jan 21 11:29:24 2001
From: ssthapa at harper.uchicago.edu (ssthapa at harper.uchicago.edu)
Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 16:29:24 GMT
Subject: Python and Industry, IBM I'm afraid
References: <20010111172342.10148.00000934@ng-ca1.aol.com> <HnO86.78962$_G5.11779533@typhoon.nyroc.rr.com> <3A63D9E8.F9B74ACE@mjs400.co.uk> <gv%86.19$eI2.9424@ruti.visi.com> <p6qpuhhq18r.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <slrn96kr26.14m.ssthapa@ntcs-ip45.uchicago.edu>

Martin von Loewis <loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de> wrote:
>grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards) writes:
>
>> How many Universities teach Python?
>
>I don't have a number, but I know that I do.

    I know at least some of the classes at the University of Chicago
encourage or use python (e.g. Network Programming) but I think that's
because David Beazley was teaching it. 

-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
	   		              |
Suchandra Thapa                       | "There are only two kinds of math . 
s-thapa-11 at NOSPAMalumni.uchicago.edu  | books. Those you cannot read beyond 
			              | the first sentence, and those you 
			              | can not read beyond the first page."
			              |                     -C.N. Yang
----------------------------------------------------------------------------


From donn at oz.net  Wed Jan 17 02:10:41 2001
From: donn at oz.net (Donn Cave)
Date: 17 Jan 2001 07:10:41 GMT
Subject: Interacting with a spawned ssh session?
References: <3A63781F.D8CDB6DC@sas.upenn.edu>
Message-ID: <943ghh$e7g$0@216.39.151.169>

Quoth "Steven M. Castellotti" <scastell at sas.upenn.edu>:
| 	I'm having two problems with one function.
|
| 	I want to be able to spawn an ssh session to another computer, and then
| interact with that session through python commands. (this is on a linux
| system)
|
| 	The first problem is feeding the password to ssh; I believe that it
| wants it's own tty.
|
| 	The second problem, and currently the more pressing one, is how to best
| send commands to that ssh session, and read back/parse the results.
|
| 	I've looked at the pty module, but must not be understanding its
| functionality, as I can't get a pty.fork()'d file descriptor to allow me
| to perform commands. I'd like to keep away from popen (for security
| reasons, though I'm not certain any other method could be considered
| secure either), but am still having trouble interacting with the spawned
| process (in this case a telnet session; for simplicity).
|
| 	Can anyone provide me with, or point me to, any examples of how to use
| python to do roughly what I'm describing?

I don't have anything at hand, but think it might help to mention
that there's old pty functionality in Python 1.5, and newer stuff
in 2.0.  If you haven't upgraded to 2.0, this would be a good time
to think about it.  As for pty.fork(), I guess I wouldn't expect
it to allow you to perform commands, so to speak, because it
doesn't exec any command interpreter.  spawn() might be more useful.

And of course for the obligatory anti-password message, instead
of RSA keys I like Kerberos authentication, and that will work
with ssh, telnet etc. if your site is enlightened enough to support
Kerberos 5.

	Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu


From mmiller3 at iupui.edu  Fri Jan  5 18:43:04 2001
From: mmiller3 at iupui.edu (Michael A. Miller)
Date: 05 Jan 2001 18:43:04 -0500
Subject: examples of PIL and paletts?
References: <87k8898v0p.fsf@lumen.med.iupui.edu>
Message-ID: <87d7e18t13.fsf@lumen.med.iupui.edu>

>>>>> "Michael" == Michael A Miller <mmiller3 at iupui.edu> writes:

    > Can anyone point me to an example of using paletts and
    > image mode 'P' with PIL?

To be more specific, I have grey scale images for which I've
calculated an equalized lut.  I'd like to view the image using
that lut, so I try this:

>>> import Image, ImagePalette, Numeric
>>> im = Image.open('lena.jpg')
>>> im.show()
>>> im2 = im.convert('P')
>>> lut = equalize(im2)
>>> p = ImagePalette.new('RGB',lut)
Traceback (innermost last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
  File "/usr/lib/python1.5/site-packages/PIL/ImagePalette.py", line 57, in new
    Image.core.new_palette(mode, data)
AttributeError: new_palette


What I'm looking for is an example of how to apply a new lut to
an existing image.  Any hints?

Mike


From erno-news at erno.iki.fi  Tue Jan  9 12:28:05 2001
From: erno-news at erno.iki.fi (Erno Kuusela)
Date: 09 Jan 2001 19:28:05 +0200
Subject: Web devel with python. Whats the best route?
References: <93dfqm07la@news1.newsguy.com> <Pine.BSF.4.21.0101071733170.29753-100000@open-systems.net> <mailman.978936788.24717.python-list@python.org> <mailman.979023970.20291.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ku1yuciqje.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>

In article <mailman.979023970.20291.python-list at python.org>, Moshe
Zadka <moshez at zadka.site.co.il> writes:

| [Alex Martelli]
|| I know I'm confused, but, isn't mod_apache some other Apache
|| module (that, I think, has something to do with configuring the
|| webserver itself)?  How does it supersede PyApache?  Tx for
|| clarifications on this...!

| mod_* in Apache can be compiled both statically into Apache and dynamically.

i think the confusion stems from the original poster having
said mod_apache when he meant mod_python.

indeed mod_apache has nothing to do with anything :)

  -- erno


From wsryu at is05.fas.harvard.edu  Tue Jan 23 19:26:32 2001
From: wsryu at is05.fas.harvard.edu (William Ryu)
Date: 24 Jan 2001 00:26:32 GMT
Subject: Tkinter spreadsheet or textgrid widget?
Message-ID: <94l7fo$k6k$1@news.fas.harvard.edu>

Tried a Google search but didn't come up with anything. Can someone point
me to a Tkinter textgrid (i.e. spreadsheet type text/number entry) widget?

Thanks,

-willryu


From thomas at xs4all.net  Sat Jan 27 10:56:06 2001
From: thomas at xs4all.net (Thomas Wouters)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 16:56:06 +0100
Subject: . Python 2.1 function attributes
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0101270941160.3501-100000@y.glue.umd.edu>; from katz@Glue.umd.edu on Sat, Jan 27, 2001 at 09:42:17AM -0500
References: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0101270135190.7677-100000@y.glue.umd.edu> <mailman.980593892.725.python-list@python.org> <$5A+ZwAGjtc6EwE0@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <Pine.GSO.4.21.0101270941160.3501-100000@y.glue.umd.edu>
Message-ID: <20010127165606.O962@xs4all.nl>

On Sat, Jan 27, 2001 at 09:42:17AM -0500, Roy Katz wrote:

> Didn't you feel it already?  
> The language was going to hell even before print>> was added.

Change always ruins everything. Keyword arguments ?!? Who needs those. Lets
go back to Python 1.3.

-- 
Thomas Wouters <thomas at xs4all.net>

Hi! I'm a .signature virus! copy me into your .signature file to help me spread!



From moshez at zadka.site.co.il  Tue Jan 30 13:30:10 2001
From: moshez at zadka.site.co.il (Moshe Zadka)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 20:30:10 +0200 (IST)
Subject: . Python 2.1 function attributes
In-Reply-To: <955umt0923@news2.newsguy.com>
References: <955umt0923@news2.newsguy.com>, <95432j014on@news2.newsguy.com>, <mailman.980717974.17843.python-list@python.org> <mailman.980839535.28757.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <20010130183010.3E0A6A840@darjeeling.zadka.site.co.il>

Haha! You had a *really* weak argument! <wink>

On Tue, 30 Jan 2001 09:41:02 +0100, "Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Take Stackless, for example.  Have you ever heard arguments against
> it from anybody WITH experience using it?  So, IF "arguments from
> experience" were indeed decisive, *WHY* isn't it in the core?

Because Gordon McMillan seems to have been too busy with other things
to finish up the PEP. That's an easy one. <wink>
In other words, there is no one for whom having stackless is so important
that he took the time to try to take the PEP from Gordon, and champion
it to conclusion. This is in contrast to the print>> PEP, where it was
important enough to Barry to do all the work, the arguing and the
shameless bribery <wink>.

For the record, I want stackless in the PEP too -- but it is not that
important to me that I want to pony up the time either.
-- 
Moshe Zadka <sig at zadka.site.co.il>
This is a signature anti-virus. 
Please stop the spread of signature viruses!
Fingerprint: 4BD1 7705 EEC0 260A 7F21  4817 C7FC A636 46D0 1BD6



From s2mdalle at titan.vcu.edu  Sat Jan 20 01:30:13 2001
From: s2mdalle at titan.vcu.edu (David Allen)
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 06:30:13 GMT
Subject: Questions on Python
References: <t6hl66u6ich47@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <Vfaa6.692$Jw.303033@typhoon2.ba-dsg.net>

In article <t6hl66u6ich47 at corp.supernews.com>, "Sam" <d> wrote:

> Hi everyone,
>     I have never really programmed before but I'm very interested in it. My
> main goal is to be able to eventually program simple games to fool around
> with. I have read that Python is a good language to learn on because it
> makes learning other languages easier. I want to ask how should i go about
> learning this language? Should I read tutorials online (any good ones i
> should check out?) or buy some books (which ones?)? Is this language good
> for any programming goal or is it mainly for a certain area? What ways can i
> make learning this the easy? Thank you for replies =)

I'd say python is good for general purpose programming.
Certainly what you're interested in doing python
can do quite well.

Check out "Learning Python" for a book to read.  It
will introduce you to programming in python.

As for making learning easy, it isn't particularly.
Program a lot, and you'll improve.

-- 
David Allen
http://opop.nols.com/
----------------------------------------
Dejamoo - the feeling that you've heard this bull before.


From mwh21 at cam.ac.uk  Fri Jan 26 09:52:49 2001
From: mwh21 at cam.ac.uk (Michael Hudson)
Date: 26 Jan 2001 14:52:49 +0000
Subject: python-2.1 function attributes
References: <mailman.980515832.8534.python-list@python.org> <94s0r0$elb5e$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <m34rymxt4u.fsf@atrus.jesus.cam.ac.uk>

"Emile van Sebille" <emile at fenx.com> writes:

> I also like it without the dot, as it opens the door to
> allowing *args and **kwargs style parameter passing
> interpretation.

What would that mean?

def f(*a=1):
 print 1

is a syntax error today...

Cheers,
M.

-- 
  ROOSTA:  Ever since you arrived on this planet last night you've
           been going round telling people that you're Zaphod
           Beeblebrox, but that they're not to tell anyone else.
                    -- The Hitch-Hikers Guide to the Galaxy, Episode 7


From sholden at holdenweb.com  Wed Jan  3 01:33:06 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2001 01:33:06 -0500
Subject: ~Python ?
References: <3a4833f8.346848@news.t-online.de> <3A484B39.A16C0B99@python.net>
Message-ID: <bKz46.11267$uq.456339@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>

Thomas A. Bryan <tbryan at python.net> wrote in message
news:3A484B39.A16C0B99 at python.net...
> Gerson Kurz wrote:
> >
[snip]
> Wouldn't os.environ['HOME'] be an acceptable way of handling this problem?
> I'm not sure whether such a variable is available under other OSs, such as
> Windows, but at least environment variables are available under Windows.
> I think that '~' is a foreign concept to non-UNIX users.  (ActivePython is
> a Windows distribution of Python, right?)
>
ActivePython is actually available for Linux, Solaris and Windoze (although
of course there's little point expecting Win32 support in the former two
platforms, unless Wine and WABI have come a lot further than I thought :-)

regards
 Steve







From sheila at spamcop.net  Thu Jan 25 01:35:43 2001
From: sheila at spamcop.net (Sheila King)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 06:35:43 GMT
Subject: beep again
References: <5251-3A6E5B71-16@storefull-163.iap.bryant.webtv.net> <94n5td$gu1$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <3A6F7BE3.98CFC640@uol.com.br>
Message-ID: <d4iv6t4fdd5sj9kps6bib94u749ae1ml3t@4ax.com>

On Wed, 24 Jan 2001 23:05:39 -0200, Cesar Rabak <csrabak at uol.com.br> wrote in
comp.lang.python in article <3A6F7BE3.98CFC640 at uol.com.br>:

:Mark Hammond wrote:
:> 
:> In article <5251-3A6E5B71-16 at storefull-163.iap.bryant.webtv.net>,
:>   clickron at webtv.net wrote:
:> > Thanks for answering my last question. I get the beep now, but no
:> matter
:> > what numbers I put in for the frequency and duration it doesn't
:> change.
:> 
:> The Python test suite has the following:
:> 
:> import winsound
:> for i in range(100, 2000, 100):
:>     winsound.Beep(i, 75)
:> print "Hopefully you heard some sounds increasing in frequency!"
:> 
:> This does the "right thing" on both Python 2.0 and 2.1a1
:> 
:
:Well, in ActivePython 2.0, build 202, it only runs a ding.wav from
:windows. (Win98 SE).

Yes, that is what I'm hearing, as well. Moreover, this loop didn't even loop
for me. It gave a single ding.wav and quit.

--
Sheila King
http://www.thinkspot.net/sheila/
http://www.k12groups.org/



From LangaK at discoveryhealth.co.za  Wed Jan 17 04:29:02 2001
From: LangaK at discoveryhealth.co.za (Langa Kentane)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 11:29:02 +0200
Subject: parsing a file [newbie]
Message-ID: <A69BC9CA4B39D411BF2200105A45B45B075B8C48@dhexchange.discoveryhealth.co.za>

ONe thing I don't understand.
When I run os.popen('df -h'), this returns a pointer to an already open file
if I am not mistaken.

Now, to apply what you gave me to this scenario, how would I go about it.  I
am confusing myself silly here.

Please help.

-----Original Message-----
From: Nils Hensel [mailto:nils at hhk.de]
Sent: 17 January 2001 11:03
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: Re: parsing a file [newbie]


import os
my_command = "/whatever/you/like"
open ("output", "w").write (os.popen (my_command).read())
y = open ("output").read().split() [2]

Hope this works, I haven't tried it. This is quick and dirty though, better
implement some error checking.

Nils


"Langa Kentane" <LangaK at discoveryhealth.co.za> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:mailman.979720698.24494.python-list at python.org...
> How do I read a file.
> This is what I want to do.
> Run a command using os.popen and store the file info that it returns to x
> Open file x and read the contents.[ contents of x will be a mount output.]
> Go to the third column of the mount output and and store in y
>
> How would I go about doing this.
>
> __________________________________________________________
> Langa Kentane | TEL: (011) 290 3218
> Security Administrator | Cell: 082 606 1515
> DISCOVERY HEALTH | http://www.discoveryhealth.co.za
> __________________________________________________________________
>
>


-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list



From thomas at xs4all.net  Thu Jan  4 14:32:32 2001
From: thomas at xs4all.net (Thomas Wouters)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 20:32:32 +0100
Subject: 2001 Enchancement Wishlist
In-Reply-To: <008601c07675$0adf2020$102b2bc1@cadlab.it>; from aleaxit@yahoo.com on Thu, Jan 04, 2001 at 06:37:41PM +0100
References: <3A4CEACB.220998A0@javanet.com> <Ro736.2511$Qb7.273102@newsb.telia.net> <92j83r13gh@news1.newsguy.com> <20001231175940.A5435@xs4all.nl> <008301c07501$c036ae40$43931497@martelli> <20010104165116.F2467@xs4all.nl> <008601c07675$0adf2020$102b2bc1@cadlab.it>
Message-ID: <20010104203232.P402@xs4all.nl>

On Thu, Jan 04, 2001 at 06:37:41PM +0100, Alex Martelli wrote:
> "Thomas Wouters" <thomas at xs4all.net> writes:

> A module object, in contrast, has no such flexibility.  It can of
> course have *attributes*, which, as they can be anything (in particular,
> they can be class-instances), are as flexible as can be -- but it
> cannot present any 'face' to client-code, except its own.

Nor is it intended to. Nor should you ever *want* to. *That* is why I don't
understand your problem with me saying that it's perfectly possible to use
a module namespace to provide singletons. I don't give a gerbil's tush
about semantics myself. I was merely making clear what /F suggested: use a
module namespace to expose singletons -- and I still don't understand what
your problem is with that.

The rest of the disagreement is based solely on a different view of Python
and all its aspects. I won't dispute it, mostly because I don't feel like
trying to understand it right now, sorry :) My view of Python is very
simple, it works for me, and I have wish nor time to broaden it now for sake
of aesthetic semantics :)

Simplicity-is-Python's-main-attraction-ly y'rs,
-- 
Thomas Wouters <thomas at xs4all.net>

Hi! I'm a .signature virus! copy me into your .signature file to help me spread!



From tim.one at home.com  Mon Jan 29 21:47:42 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 21:47:42 -0500
Subject: marshal doesn't work with "file-like" objects
In-Reply-To: <Zknd6.10159$AH6.1643381@newsc.telia.net>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCGECCIMAA.tim.one@home.com>

[/F]
> Note the second part ("more of a puzzle" is a polite way to say
> "impossible, if you care about performance").

[Tim]
> That wasn't my intent ...

[/F]
> how about "impossible, if you care about performance, and
> don't want to invent yet another file format".

s/file format/filelike format/ and we're golden <wink>.




From erno-news at erno.iki.fi  Wed Jan 10 20:14:48 2001
From: erno-news at erno.iki.fi (Erno Kuusela)
Date: 11 Jan 2001 03:14:48 +0200
Subject: zodb & multiple processes
Message-ID: <kuhf36hotz.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>

hello,

from the looks of things, zodb is thread-safe in that you can use
connections to the same storage from many threads at once and
have it not break.

how about multiple processes? will it just work, just not work,
or require special incantations?

  -- erno


From dnew at san.rr.com  Wed Jan 17 12:38:37 2001
From: dnew at san.rr.com (Darren New)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 17:38:37 GMT
Subject: help with code for combinations/permutations
References: <944adl$2bf@dispatch.concentric.net>
Message-ID: <3A65D89D.E8366B3D@san.rr.com>

Another way of doing this is to recognise that if you have all the
permutations of (1,2,3), you can get all the permutations of (1,2,3,4) by
inserting a "4" in each possible point in the permutations you already have.
In other words, it's almost trivial to reduce recursively.

Oh, and it's a 1-liner in APL. ;-)

Bryan Webb wrote:
> I need to come up with all possible combinations of the numbers in the above
> list ie. 

-- 
Darren New / Senior MTS & Free Radical / Invisible Worlds Inc.
San Diego, CA, USA (PST).  Cryptokeys on demand.
"It says this wine has syphilis."
               "I think that's pronounced `sulphates'."


From hunter at userfriendly.net  Mon Jan 15 06:45:22 2001
From: hunter at userfriendly.net (hunter)
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 06:45:22 -0500
Subject: Netscape Enterprise Server 4.1
References: <3A62DC37.5A5A5294@eurodyn.com>
Message-ID: <3A62E2D2.7DFA89EC@userfriendly.net>

I certainly hope so, and i am hoping that it works in the reverse as
well. I have 200 web servers running netscape enterprise server v4.1sp2
that i NEED to convert to apache with python (most likely mod_python) in
order to save on the cost of the licenses for NES. They are around $1295
per cpu per server which is extremely cost-prohibitive. However i am
struggling trying to get our main application driver (py-driver) to act
as a cgi as we have it configured for NES.

Michael Weiner
Systems Administrator/Partner
The UserFriendly Network
--

Vasilis Giannikopoulos wrote:
> 
> Does anyone know if a Python script that is now running on Apache could
> also run on Netscape Enterprise Server 4.1 without modifications or run
> at all?
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> Aki
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From sandj.williams at gte.net  Tue Jan  2 16:21:49 2001
From: sandj.williams at gte.net (Steve Williams)
Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2001 21:21:49 GMT
Subject: why no "do : until"?
References: <92jj3j$ff7$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <slrn94shbe.150.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <X8s36.2731$Qb7.305339@newsb.telia.net> <slrn94smds.150.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <FOt36.17$vd1.2224@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com> <slrn94t1vj.150.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <3A4E95FD.D6C737A7@engcorp.com> <slrn94tqkh.150.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <tpr46.7782$4c.597534@ruti.visi.com>
Message-ID: <3A5247A9.236E0700@gte.net>

Grant Edwards wrote:

> [slash]

>
> The problem is that when you decide to change the endpoint from
> 25 to something else, you _may_ have to change the code in two
> places: the test and the initialization.  If you decide to
> raise the endpoint from 25 to 50, you only have to change one
> line.  If you want to lower it you might have to change the
> initialization also.
>
> Requiring edits to two possibly widely seperated places in the
> source code to change a single algorithm value is (in my
> experience) going to cause a bug some day.
>

[more slash]

Ah, but variables are magic things:

intFoo = 25
intBar = 75
While intFoo < intBar:
  intFoo . . .

Wiring constants in the code (and maintaining them in multiple places) is for
the laity.

Do !do it.






From lele at seldati.it  Mon Jan  8 20:16:14 2001
From: lele at seldati.it (Lele Gaifax)
Date: 09 Jan 2001 02:16:14 +0100
Subject: Web devel with python. Whats the best route?
In-Reply-To: "Alex Martelli"'s message of "Mon, 8 Jan 2001 23:37:54 +0100"
References: <Pine.BSF.4.21.0101071733170.29753-100000@open-systems.net>
	<mailman.978936788.24717.python-list@python.org>
	<93dfqm07la@news1.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <m3u279ed9d.fsf@paci.nautilus>

>>>>> On Mon, 8 Jan 2001 23:37:54 +0100, "Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com> said:

    AM> "Moshe Zadka" <moshez at zadka.site.co.il> wrote in message
    AM> news:mailman.978936788.24717.python-list at python.org...  [snip]
    >> The only thing I'm pretty certain about is that PyApache has
    >> been
    AM> superseded
    >> by mod_apache. Other then that, all have strong points, so you
    >> should pick

    AM> I know I'm confused, but, isn't mod_apache some other Apache
    AM> module (that, I think, has something to do with configuring
    AM> the webserver itself)?  How does it supersede PyApache?  Tx
    AM> for clarifications on this...!

It may be, in the sense that it's a superset of PyApache. Never
checked nor used the other modules, so I may be wrong.

The goal of PyApache was fast execution of standard CGIs, and that's
it. For more esotheric capabilities, I preferred Zope.

bye, lele.
-- 
nickname: Lele Gaifax	| Quando vivro' di quello che ho pensato ieri
real: Emanuele Gaifas	| comincero' ad aver paura di chi mi copia.
email: lele at seldati.it	|		-- Fortunato Depero, 1929.




From quinn at chunder.ugcs.caltech.edu  Sat Jan 27 22:23:31 2001
From: quinn at chunder.ugcs.caltech.edu (Quinn Dunkan)
Date: 28 Jan 2001 03:23:31 GMT
Subject: c(++)python?
References: <mailman.980587866.26441.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrn97745i.vt.quinn@chunder.ugcs.caltech.edu>

On Sat, 27 Jan 2001 02:20:54 -0500, Tim Peters <tim.one at home.com> wrote:
>Given the number of odd platforms Python is ported to, C++ would still be a
>major gamble.  If history repeats, around 2010 we'll insist that people
>finally use a 1999-flavor ANSI C compiler (although there's some doubt that
>vendors will actually implement all of C99).

As someone who uses python on a platform with no C++ compiler, and which is
unlikely to ever have a C++ compiler, I'm quite glad python is in plain old C.
Consider that anyone who wants any level of backward compatibility for their
OS is going to have to port or write a C compiler (and some minimal posix
emulation).  Writing a C compiler is not trivial, but it's presumably well
understood by now, and a lot easier than writing one for a complex,
higher-level-but-must-be-performant language.  Writing a C++ compiler is a lot
more work than most people working on new platforms are willing to go to for
mere backward compatibility :)

>still-if-you-reimplement-python-in-c++-please-post-the-patch-
>    to-sourceforge<wink>-ly y'rs  - tim

Not that I'm arguing against python/c++ interoperability, anything that can
improve that is great.  I don't currently and may never write in java, but I'm
glad jpython exists, because someday I might have to and then I'll be glad to
have python around :)


From tepperly at llnl.gov  Wed Jan  3 18:18:58 2001
From: tepperly at llnl.gov (Tom Epperly)
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2001 15:18:58 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Registering C methods when writing a C extension type?
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.10.10101031440140.12743-100000@hadamard.llnl.gov>

I planning to write a C extension type (not module) to provide a Python
binding for an object or interface defined in an IDL (interface definition
language) for high performance scientific computing. In the example from
Mark Lutz's Programming Python (the only documentation I've found that
directly addresses writing extension types), it does something like the
following to make the object methods visible (in myobject.c):

static struct PyMethodDef myobject_methods[] = {
  {"method_one", (PyCFunction)method_one, 1},
  {"method_two", (PyCFunction)method_two, 1},
  {"method_three", (PyCFunction)method_three, 1},
  {NULL, NULL}
};

static PyObject *
myobject_getattr(myobject *self, char *name) {
 /* other stuff deleted */
 return Py_FindMethod(object_methods, self, name);
}

/* tp_getattr points to myobject_getattr */

I am wondering what the relative merits/penalties of doing something like
the following in the constructor for the hypothetical myobject instead of
the above. I would like feedback about issues of style (am I violating the
designers intent or using functions intended for internal use only),
forward/backward portability, and efficiency.

static myobject *
new_myobject()
{
  myobject *self;
  const int len = sizeof(object_methods)/sizeof(PyMethodDef);
  int i;
  self = PyObject_NEW(myobject, &myobjecttype);
  if (self == NULL) return NULL;
  for(i = 0 ; i < len ; i++){
    PyObject *func = PyCFunction_New(object_methods + i, self);
    if (func != NULL) {
      PyObject_SetAttrString(self, object_methods[i].ml_name, func);
      Py_DECREF(func); /* remove extra reference */
    }
  }
  return self;
}

In this case, the getattr method does not call Py_FindMethod.

Tom

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tom Epperly
Center for Applied Scientific Computing   Phone: 925-424-3159
Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory      Fax: 925-424-2477
L-661, P.O. Box 808, Livermore, CA 94551  Email: tepperly at llnl.gov
------------------------------------------------------------------------




From loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de  Sat Jan 20 18:40:23 2001
From: loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de (Martin von Loewis)
Date: 21 Jan 2001 00:40:23 +0100
Subject: Distribution issues
References: <mailman.979928091.876.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <p6qk87ppzbs.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>

D-Man <dsh8290 at rit.edu> writes:

> To distribute, you simply jar your files together and ship it.  The
> user still needs a JVM, but that isn't a big issue (to me).  (Jar is
> very similar to tar or zip)

The more tricky issue about jar file is that the JVM has to find
them. This is typically done by setting the CLASSPATH, but, in my
experience *not* to the directory containing the jar file, but to the
jar file itself. Of course, there are also standard locations - you
just have to know what they are as an administrator.

> Is there a similar thing for python?  

Not quite the same, but there is distutils. Do

python setup.py install

and distutils will put everything in place, without the administrator
knowing a thing about python.

Regards,
Martin


From fakeaddress at nospammail.com  Wed Jan 31 17:54:55 2001
From: fakeaddress at nospammail.com (Ben Catanzariti)
Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 09:54:55 +1100
Subject: Design for slices
References: <959uue$k02$1@cubacola.tninet.se>
Message-ID: <j85a59.kd5.ln@mail>

I am fairly sure this came about due to the fact you are defining a position
of a pointer, not an object ie. a letter in a string. So position x[0] means
the pointer has not moved or has a null value and will occur directly before
the first letter in a string....

Some one please correct me if i am wrong ... I am sure you will ;)

"Gustaf Liljegren" <gustafl at algonet.se> wrote in message
news:959uue$k02$1 at cubacola.tninet.se...
> I'm learning Python and have a question about defining ranges/slices in
> strings. I can't find any defence for what looks like a poor design, so I
> have to ask. Why is the first character in the string x defined as x[0]
and
> not x[1]? This looks just like the typical geek thinking that I'm trying
to
> avoid with Python.
>
> Gustaf




From jpet at eskimo.com  Wed Jan 24 03:22:52 2001
From: jpet at eskimo.com (Jeff Petkau)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 08:22:52 GMT
Subject: How do I know all thrown exceptions of a function?
References: <mailman.980206644.31124.python-list@python.org> <94imre$7dd$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <whwb6.1903$ek2.405225@paloalto-snr1.gtei.net>

Andrew Dalke <dalke at acm.org> wrote in message
news:94imre$7dd$1 at slb6.atl.mindspring.net...
> def integrate(func, x_min, x_max):
>   ...
>   will compute func(x) for several values of x between [x_min, x_max]
>   ...
>
> What exceptions does "integrate" throw, given that "func" can
> throw anything?  As I understand the Java way, you must declare
> all of the exceptions thrown by "func", which most people will
> take to mean it only throws a math error (divide by zero, overflow,
> etc.).  Once the "func" exceptions are known, the "integrate"
> ones are also known.
>...
> I actually don't know.  As far as I can tell, the only way to
> do it is let integrate raise a specific "CannotIntegrate"
> exception, then implement a wrapper, like for MyCache, which
> converts any non-numeric exception in the CannotIntegrate
> exception, as in
>
> To me, this is ugly and error prone.  (Is this really what
> you need to do for Java - the Feb. Dr. Dobb's comparison
> between Java and C# suggests so.)  Thus, I would rather write
> my code to be exception safe, in that it gracefully accepts
> any exception, then to declare every exception type.

Since all exceptions in Java are derived from java.lang.Throwable,
you could just declare integrate() as throwing Throwable. So
you're effectively declaring, "this function can throw any damn
fool thing, you deal with it."

I think it's a good solution, although parameterized types
would be better. (So you could say "this function throws
whatever func throws.")

--Jeff





From phd at phd.pp.ru  Fri Jan 26 07:55:52 2001
From: phd at phd.pp.ru (Oleg Broytmann)
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 15:55:52 +0300 (MSK)
Subject: Database-like module in Python?
In-Reply-To: <20010126091824.25080.qmail@nwcst289.netaddress.usa.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0101261553570.31021-100000@fep132.fep.ru>

On 26 Jan 2001, Def P wrote:
> Is there something database-like written in Python that I can use? I looked at
> dbm & friends, can they be used for this purpose? (I don't know much about
> them; since I am not on Unix, only dumbdbm seems to work for me.)

   dbm family (dbm, gdbm, Berkeley DB) are exactly dictionaries; they just
store info in files. (The last one, BSDDB, is more advanced). There is also
Metakit - similar to dbm, but operates with tables.
   You can also use Gadfly - pure python SQL engine.

Oleg.
----
     Oleg Broytmann            http://phd.pp.ru/            phd at phd.pp.ru
           Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN.




From scarblac at pino.selwerd.nl  Thu Jan 18 18:35:47 2001
From: scarblac at pino.selwerd.nl (Remco Gerlich)
Date: 18 Jan 2001 23:35:47 GMT
Subject: This is my first program in Python
References: <3a66a585.268350144@news.tcn.net> <W9C96.6257$rw.65347@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <slrn96ev4m.ki7.scarblac@pino.selwerd.nl>

Steve Holden <sholden at holdenweb.com> wrote in comp.lang.python:
> The assignment has deliberately been designated a statement rather than an
> expression,
> The standard idiom for doing this with a while would be (untested):
> 
> while 1:
>     line = file.readline()
>     if line == '':
>         break
>     first, second = line.split(':', 1)
>     print first
> 
> Some people don't like this. It's not going to change :-)

But in 2.1, there will be xreadlines(), readlines() without slurping the
whole file into memory, which will at least make this idiom unnecessary in
the common case of reading a file line by line :-).

-- 
Remco Gerlich


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Thu Jan  4 12:42:50 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 18:42:50 +0100
Subject: Unexpected result for list operator "+="
References: <3A542778.E1BC06E3@bogusaddress.com> <aDW46.2901$AH6.510940@newsc.telia.net> <9320ei02tic@news2.newsguy.com> <20010104175855.I2467@xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <008d01c07675$c25c3d50$102b2bc1@cadlab.it>

"Thomas Wouters" <thomas at xs4all.net> writes:
    [snip]
> > http://www.python.org/doc/current/ref/sequence-types.html
> >
> > """
> > Finally, sequence types should implement addition (meaning
concatenation)
> > [snip]
> > by defining the methods __add__(), __radd__(), __iadd__(),
> > """
> > (it continues by saying the methods are 'described below',
> > but, they aren't).
    [snip]
> *That* is fixed in the newer docs. If you find a good place to add a
list's
> *=/+=, let me know. (Is the non-augmented * or + documented anywhere ?)

Not that I can see -- the "described below" I mentioned also refers
to the non-augmented versions.  Maybe, if 3.3.6 is now complete, it
might suffice to change 'described below' to 'described in <link to
3.3.6>', as 3.3.4 already mentions "addition (meaning concatenation)
and multiplication (meaning repetition)".

Does the C API manual also now mention the augmented operations...?


Alex





From claird at starbase.neosoft.com  Tue Jan 23 09:36:37 2001
From: claird at starbase.neosoft.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: 23 Jan 2001 08:36:37 -0600
Subject: Complete list of Python IDEs
References: <slrn96q24u.c2s.ahopkins@ahopkins.dynacare.com>
Message-ID: <25708BF4E69C79D8.642051B7F9A3B6D4.27F3341E69B04670@lp.airnews.net>

In article <slrn96q24u.c2s.ahopkins at ahopkins.dynacare.com>,
Albert Hopkins <ahopkins at dynacare.com> wrote:
>
>I know there are a few open source and commercial Python-ware IDEs 
>available, but does there exist a list somwhere comparing features as well 
>as contact info?
			.
			.
			.
I know of none.  If you or another enthusiast chooses
to write it, though, I'm sure we can find at least one
outlet to publish it.
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at NeoSoft.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://starbase.neosoft.com/~claird/home.html


From baasad at qualitynet.net  Mon Jan 29 19:41:29 2001
From: baasad at qualitynet.net (bashar A. Asad)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 03:41:29 +0300
Subject: what GUI, please advise
References: <3A6F0B27.A88D11C9@crepido.com>
	 <756399CF731B46D9.57530C0D0C9C2171.472E737DF76189F7@lp.airnews.net>
Message-ID: <955na0$m4r2@news.qualitynet.net>

try 
blackader by http://www.thekompany.com
it supports Qt lib

cheers

----------
In article
<756399CF731B46D9.57530C0D0C9C2171.472E737DF76189F7 at lp.airnews.net>,
claird at starbase.neosoft.com (Cameron Laird) wrote:


> In article <3A6F0B27.A88D11C9 at crepido.com>,
> Marco =?iso-8859-1?Q?Seiri=F6?=  <marco at crepido.com> wrote:
>>
>>There seems to be several good options to choose from when
>>it comes to GUI developent with Python.
>>
>>Can someone say somthing, without killing each other with flames, what
>>GUI one should choose?
>>
>>Stupid and impossible question by the way as everything depends as
>>usual... but anyway..
>>
>>/M
>>
>
> No.
>
> Unless you tell us more about yourself.  Do you care about
> portability to MacOS?  Does the GNOME widget collection
> infatuate you?  Do you prefer or disdain a GUI builder?
>
> In the meantime,
> <URL: http://starbase.neosoft.com/~claird/comp.lang.python/python_GUI.html >
> --
>
> Cameron Laird <claird at NeoSoft.com>
> Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
> Personal:  http://starbase.neosoft.com/~claird/home.html


From ray_drew at yahoo.co.uk  Mon Jan 29 05:24:30 2001
From: ray_drew at yahoo.co.uk (Ray Drew)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 10:24:30 GMT
Subject: PSU uses emacs?
References: <948e4b$hm0$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <948fvj$oq1$1@panix6.panix.com> <3A67CDC3.7EACB07D@Lugoj.Com> <9490t009on@news2.newsguy.com> <3a685ef2.3403798@reading.news.pipex.net> <949rii0a76@news1.newsguy.com> <3a6eb2fa.2347467@reading.news.pipex.net> <mailman.980374351.22360.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3a7542d7.2738309@reading.news.pipex.net>

On Wed, 24 Jan 2001 07:18:19 -0800, Neil Schemenauer <nas at arctrix.com>
wrote:

>really necessary.  Here is the Python line from my .vimrc:
>
> au BufEnter *.py set sw=4 sts=4 et ai cindent cino=(0 cinkeys=!^F,o,O tw=74
>
>The cindent options make Vim indent similarly to python-mode in
>Emacs.
>
>  Neil
>

I'm now running with au BufEnter *.py set sw=4 sts=4 et ai cindent
cino=(0 cinkeys=!^F,o,O tw=74 in my _vmrc file, but this is the
behaviour I'm getting...

def fun(x):	(1)
    if x:		(2)
        y		(3)
    else		(4)

after line 1, cursor is in leftmost position, I have to tab to indent
the if block.
after line 2, cursor under the i of if, I have to tab again for the
next line.
after line 3 , cursor is under the y. I now need to backtab for the
else but can't use the backspace key to do it, I either have to hit
the 'home' key to get to the start of the line and then tab my way
back or switch to command mode and hit the 'h' key 4 times (or hit the
left arrow key 4 times in 'insert' mode).

The behaviour I'd like is for the cursor to autoindent for lines 2 and
3 and for the backspace key to move me back a tab in line 4. Can I get
gvim to work like this?

I've tried using si instead of ci and I've tried setting cinw to the
python keywords that require indenting on the following line.

I've got syntax on.

Thanks for any help,

Ray



From sav at ulmen.mv.ru  Thu Jan 25 01:58:26 2001
From: sav at ulmen.mv.ru (Alexander Semenov)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 09:58:26 +0300
Subject: urllib.urlretrieve("http://free.bsdshell.net/")
References: <mailman.980354711.2588.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <94oiss$1hm2$1@news1.simtel.ru>

"Oleg Broytmann" <phd at phd.pp.ru> wrote in message
news:mailman.980354711.2588.python-list at python.org...
> On 24 Jan 2001, Erno Kuusela wrote:
>    Then the site filters me out just because, without any reason
:))) But
> it rejects only urllib - any browser will do its job right!

Try to run 'telnet yoursite', then blindly type 'GET /index.html' and
press Enter twice.
Then try to use sockets module instead urllib to connect to site.

Check for proxy settings in browser and http_proxy environment
variables on your system.

Hope it helps.

SY, Alexander Semenov <sav at ulmen.mv.ru>.





From garabik-news at spam.melkor.dnp.fmph.uniba.sk  Wed Jan 17 07:34:46 2001
From: garabik-news at spam.melkor.dnp.fmph.uniba.sk (Radovan Garabik)
Date: 17 Jan 2001 12:34:46 GMT
Subject: Curses module for Python 2.0 for Windows NT
References: <mailman.979719258.23519.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <979734821.7106@cdwork.cvt.stuba.sk>

jurgen.defurne at philips.com wrote:
 : Dear all,

 : I am busy automating tasks across some Windows NT workstations, where
 : I control another program (Continuus/CM, if any one knows that).
 : Unfortunately, that control is not that easy. Ihave built a GUI interface,
 : but I am not really satisfied with it, so I want to simplify it somewhat so that
 : it can run in a DOS box using curses. Is there a curses add-on available
 : for the Win32 binaries ? It sure isn't part of the distribution I am using,
 : which is still the BeOpen version of Python 2.0

why I have such a feeling I saw (and answerred) the very same question
some months ago? :-)

see
http://www.mikroplan.com.pl/~mak/python/

-- 
 -----------------------------------------------------------
| Radovan Garabik http://melkor.dnp.fmph.uniba.sk/~garabik/ |
| __..--^^^--..__    garabik @ melkor.dnp.fmph.uniba.sk     |
 -----------------------------------------------------------
Antivirus alert: file .signature infected by signature virus.
Hi! I'm a signature virus! Copy me into your signature file to help me spread!


From moshez at zadka.site.co.il  Wed Jan 31 15:36:34 2001
From: moshez at zadka.site.co.il (Moshe Zadka)
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 22:36:34 +0200 (IST)
Subject: readline: custom keywords
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSO.4.10.10101301205190.7564-100000@users.vscht.cz>
References: <Pine.BSO.4.10.10101301205190.7564-100000@users.vscht.cz>
Message-ID: <20010131203634.DCC4FA83E@darjeeling.zadka.site.co.il>

On Tue, 30 Jan 2001 12:10:26 +0100, Michal Bozon <bozonm at users.vscht.cz> wrote:

> Is `readline' library designed only for interactive python,
> or is it also possible to use it in own programs with own keywords?

It is certainly possible! See the rlcompleter module.
-- 
Moshe Zadka <sig at zadka.site.co.il>
This is a signature anti-virus. 
Please stop the spread of signature viruses!
Fingerprint: 4BD1 7705 EEC0 260A 7F21  4817 C7FC A636 46D0 1BD6



From db3l at fitlinxx.com  Tue Jan 23 22:37:06 2001
From: db3l at fitlinxx.com (David Bolen)
Date: 23 Jan 2001 22:37:06 -0500
Subject: Can I decompile PYC files?
References: <94j8j5$50e$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <jon.980291916@bezek.dstc.monash.edu.au>
Message-ID: <uvgr5aae5.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com>

jon at bezek.dstc.monash.edu.au (Jonathan Giddy) writes:

> You can try using decompyle, which can be found using any search engine.  

One minor item - if you're running under Windows, it looks like a
small tweak to decompyle.py (line 108 in _load_module) is necessary to
change the open to use binary mode ('rb').  Otherwise, seems to work
nicely.

--
-- David
-- 
/-----------------------------------------------------------------------\
 \               David Bolen            \   E-mail: db3l at fitlinxx.com  /
  |             FitLinxx, Inc.            \  Phone: (203) 708-5192    |
 /  860 Canal Street, Stamford, CT  06902   \  Fax: (203) 316-5150     \
\-----------------------------------------------------------------------/


From rcameszREMOVETHIS at dds.removethistoo.nl  Wed Jan 10 08:10:46 2001
From: rcameszREMOVETHIS at dds.removethistoo.nl (Robert Amesz)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 13:10:46 GMT
Subject: Web devel with python. Whats the best route?
References: <mailman.978910629.6814.python-list@python.org> <93cqvi0191h@news1.newsguy.com> <mailman.978985688.26505.python-list@python.org> <93dfft077p@news1.newsguy.com> <mailman.979000510.4052.python-list@python.org> <slrn95ltl8.45d.scarblac@pino.selwerd.nl> <93f4q7$ji4$1@newshost.accu.uu.nl>
Message-ID: <90259B539rcamesz@127.0.0.1>

Martijn Faassen wrote:

> [Snip]
>
>Dus, voorwaards met dat Nederlands!
      --------^-

Well, one can but hope...


Robert Amesz








From phd at phd.pp.ru  Mon Jan 15 06:25:36 2001
From: phd at phd.pp.ru (Oleg Broytmann)
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 14:25:36 +0300 (MSK)
Subject: ALARM on windows?
In-Reply-To: <93ukvl$cdp$1@news0.skynet.be>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0101151425030.14178-100000@fep132.fep.ru>

On Mon, 15 Jan 2001, Kalista Christophe wrote:
> I'd like to do the following : A python script listens to port 6664(for
> example). When it gets a connection, it then sets an alarm handler and then
> tries to read from the socket. If it does not get data within 10 seconds, it
> then times out, at which point the alarm handler throws an axception and
> aborts the socket read.

   Use timeoutsocket from http://www.timo-tasi.org/python/

Oleg.
----
     Oleg Broytmann            http://phd.pp.ru/            phd at phd.pp.ru
           Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN.




From grante at visi.com  Tue Jan 23 10:47:25 2001
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 15:47:25 GMT
Subject: serial i/o under linux?
References: <94igau$h6i$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <hIhb6.1965$eI2.598584@ruti.visi.com>

In article <94igau$h6i$1 at nnrp1.deja.com>, henry_crun3583 at my-deja.com wrote:

>Can anyone give an example of simple serial port ops under linux?

I wrapped it up in the simplest way I could at

  ftp://ftp.visi.com/users/grante/python/PosixSerial.py

There is no documentation other than example usage in a dumb
little GTK based terminal emulator:

  ftp://ftp.visi.com/users/grante/python/lcom.py

>ie I want to write a string, and readlines until done or timeout....

You can do the timout using select or by using the serial
driver timout funcitonality (man termios).

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  Why don't you
                                  at               ever enter and CONTESTS,
                               visi.com            Marvin?? Don't you know
                                                   your own ZIPCODE?


From peter at engcorp.com  Sat Jan 27 03:20:39 2001
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 03:20:39 -0500
Subject: undefined variable
References: <nHsc6.252522$59.63479549@news3.rdc1.on.home.com>
Message-ID: <3A7284D7.FEDA433@engcorp.com>

shaka wrote:
> 
>  hi, I am a beginner learning python, and I have notice that in python
> variale are not declared or defined. But does it mean that your cannot use
> the same variable twice and all your variable have to be of different name.
> In java you can have a variable of the same name but of different type and
> it makes programming much more flexible.

It sounds like you are looking for the concept called "namespaces",
or perhaps "scope".  Java can have variables of the same name but 
different type defined *in different places*, such as in two 
separate methods.

Python is no different in this respect.

Or did I misunderstand your (unclear) question?


From roger_callisto at hotmail.com  Wed Jan  3 11:24:53 2001
From: roger_callisto at hotmail.com (Peter Yu)
Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 16:24:53 GMT
Subject: Embedded Python Question
Message-ID: <92vjob$8rh$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

Hello,

I've decided to do an environment that allows for Python scripts to run
in a specific directory with object-level file security.

RExec appears to be my best option.  So far, I've been able to change
the "root" directory of all file operations to the desired directory...
However, when I tried to add file access restrictions for specific
objects, I'm stumped -- Normally, I'd have used the call stack to
determine access privilages, but the call stack is unavailable inside
the RExec environment... Does anyone have any suggestions on what else I
could do?

Thanks in advance,
Peter


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From johnvert at my-deja.com  Sat Jan 20 13:38:56 2001
From: johnvert at my-deja.com (johnvert at my-deja.com)
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 18:38:56 GMT
Subject: about DOM.
Message-ID: <94cm00$t4m$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

Hi,

I just read up some intro documents about DOM.  It seems like a really
cool idea, but I haven't heard of anybody using it--doesn't seem to come
up a lot.

I was wondering what are people using it for nowdays, and how I can
access it from Python code.

Thanks,
  -- John


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From sheila at thinkspot.net  Sun Jan 21 00:30:03 2001
From: sheila at thinkspot.net (Sheila King)
Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 05:30:03 GMT
Subject: Translating a Perl script into Python
References: <vo9i6t04nhurgv2avmgoss4mg86ofcuhtv@4ax.com> <94d4hk$1sq$1@animus.fel.iae.nl> <i47k6t4i2vu0tgr9kd9l5udnk8q72d8648@4ax.com> <94ddks$ff9$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <4tsk6t8ia6j55c1luv9l9tdqdfd6ljs8aj@4ax.com>

On Sun, 21 Jan 2001 01:22:40 GMT, Hamish Lawson <hamish_lawson at yahoo.co.uk>
wrote in comp.lang.python in article <94ddks$ff9$1 at nnrp1.deja.com>:

:It's more general and more powerful than that. The % operator takes a
:string on the left and a single value, tuple, list or dictionary on the
:right and produces a string by substituting the % placeholders in the
:left-hand operand with values from the right-hand operand. Note that %
:inside a string doesn't have any special meaning in itself; it's the %
:operator that treats it as placeholder. Thus
:
:    a = "His name is %s and his age is %d"
:    b = ['Bob', 42]
:    print a % b

Thanks. I think it's starting to creep into my head, now. Your examples
helped. I've saved them in my file of examples.

--
Sheila King
http://www.thinkspot.net/sheila/
http://www.k12groups.org/



From benji_york at cal-na.com  Mon Jan 22 13:22:39 2001
From: benji_york at cal-na.com (Benji York)
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 18:22:39 GMT
Subject: Different deployment considerations (was: Python & GUI?)
References: <3A674896.C7E52247@crepido.com> <3A698869.198D6263@crepido.com> <301DBDE62C14BD35.683C43A181247CB3.8398E5428BE1B406@lp.airnews.net> <94cm0r01b6j@news2.newsguy.com> <Vcoa6.155292$15.33860760@news1.rdc1.az.home.com>
Message-ID: <94htp3$v4t$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

In article <Vcoa6.155292$15.33860760 at news1.rdc1.az.home.com>,
  "Tim Hochberg" <tim.hochberg at ieee.org> wrote:
>
> "Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:94cm0r01b6j at news2.newsguy.com...
>
> > I haven't checked, but, why wouldn't Installer (or other
> > such solutions) work equivalently for, say, wxPython?
>
> It does. (There are a couple of tricks one needs to know, but those
are
> readily answered on the wxPython list).
>
> -tim

I recently finished a spiffy little Windows wxPython app for our local
country club and was trying to figure out how I was going to distribute
it.  I could have installed Python, wxWindows, and my code on their
machine and been done with it, but I decided to learn how to do
it "right."

I figured out how to get Gordon McMillan's "Installer"
(http://www.mcmillan-inc.com/) to package up all the files my app
needed (including the wx files).  I then downloaded Inno Setup
(http://www.jrsoftware.org/isinfo.htm) and learned how to build a setup
program.

The results are a single executable setup program.  Just double click
and it launches a profesional looking setup program.  Inno Setup let me
put icons on the Start menu and desktop and automatically created an
uninstaller that integrates with the standard Windows add/remove
programs functionality.

I was very impressed, you will be too.

Benji York
york at ficom dot net


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From hancock at earthlink.net  Wed Jan 17 23:16:53 2001
From: hancock at earthlink.net (Terry Hancock)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 20:16:53 -0800
Subject: Literate programming in Python
References: <20010117224801.6A67CEFDB@mail.python.org>
Message-ID: <3A666E35.FC1A37C@earthlink.net>

> Hello,
> I'd like to know if there exist a "literate programming" language for Python (possibly
> using the same structure/conventions of
> WEB/CWEB, the first literate programming languages, developed by D.E.Knuth and Silvio Levy,
> resp. for Pascal and C/C++).
> 
> Thank you for your attention,
> 
> --
> Giuseppe Bilotta

I don't know of such a thing, but you should be aware of "Spider",
which is a program for creating new literate programming tools
for new languages (i.e. you could use spider to _make_ the tool
you want).  Spider is by Norman Ramsey, circa 1989, at Princeton
University. You can probably get it from a number of places
(CTAN archives?), but I know it's available as a Debian package
(from http://www.debian.org).  I think it allows for a higher
level of generality than is the case with cweb.

Best of luck!
-- 
Terry Hancock
hancock at earthlink.net



From aahz at panix.com  Wed Jan 10 19:30:03 2001
From: aahz at panix.com (Aahz Maruch)
Date: 10 Jan 2001 16:30:03 -0800
Subject: is Python fully object oriented ?
References: <20010110184830.13286.00000826@ng-fg1.aol.com>
Message-ID: <93iuqb$rn9$1@panix3.panix.com>

In article <20010110184830.13286.00000826 at ng-fg1.aol.com>,
Crutoy <crutoy at aol.com> wrote:
>
>Hi , i haven't used Python but i do have experience in other languages vb ,
>java , c++ . Is Python a fully object oriented ? Thanks

Python is fully object oriented if you consider Java and C++ to be fully
object oriented.  If you don't consider those two fully object oriented,
you may not consider Python to be fully object oriented.
-- 
                      --- Aahz (Copyright 2001 by aahz at pobox.com)

Androgynous poly kinky vanilla queer het    <*>     http://www.rahul.net/aahz/
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6

Sometimes, you're not just out of left field, you're coming in all the
way from outer space.  --Aahz


From jbranthoover at my-deja.com  Fri Jan 12 08:47:30 2001
From: jbranthoover at my-deja.com (jbranthoover at my-deja.com)
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 13:47:30 GMT
Subject: NewBie: How Can I Scan The Keyboard In Python?
References: <93ku2c$gtr$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <epn76.5525$Qb7.771036@newsb.telia.net>
Message-ID: <93n1tg$a6v$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

Hello Fredrik,
	Thank you for your response.  I guess that neglected to mention
that I am running Python 1.5.2 on a Lynx (not linux) box.  I suppose
that the msvcrt module makes use of windows API calls and must run on a
windows based system?

	Anyway thanks for the information.  If you have any other
Ideas,  please pass them along.  Have a great day...!



In article <epn76.5525$Qb7.771036 at newsb.telia.net>,
  "Fredrik Lundh" <fredrik at effbot.org> wrote:
> jbranthoover at my-deja.com wrote:
> > Is there a way to scan the keyboard to watch for a key
> > closure?
>
>     http://www.python.org/doc/FAQ.html#8.2
>     "8.2. How to check for a keypress without blocking?
>     "Use the msvcrt module. This is a standard Windows-specific
>     extensions in Python 1.5 and beyond. It defines a function
>     kbhit() which checks whether a keyboard hit is present; also
>     getch() which gets one character without echo. Plus a few
>     other goodies."
>
> for more info, see the library reference.
>
> Cheers /F
>
>


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From hancock at earthlink.net  Sat Jan 20 01:22:57 2001
From: hancock at earthlink.net (Terry Hancock)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 22:22:57 -0800
Subject: Questions on Python
References: <20010120011201.72310F44E@mail.python.org>
Message-ID: <3A692EC1.1C1F0A98@earthlink.net>

> Hi everyone,
>     I have never really programmed before but I'm very interested in it. My
> main goal is to be able to eventually program simple games to fool around
> with. I have read that Python is a good language to learn on because it
> makes learning other languages easier. I want to ask how should i go about
> learning this language? Should I read tutorials online (any good ones i
> should check out?) or buy some books (which ones?)? Is this language good
> for any programming goal or is it mainly for a certain area? What ways can i
> make learning this the easy? Thank you for replies =)

Online tutorial for first-time programmers at:

"Learning to Program" with Python:
http://www.crosswinds.net/~agauld/

(Also available as a book -- see
http://www.amk.ca/bookstore/python.html)

As for books of the paper variety, I recommend "Learning Python"
for getting started.  I really don't think you can beat the
reference materials available online (I consider them well above
average for open-source documentation -- I hope this is a trend :) ),
but you can purchase a printed version from the bookstore URL above.

Hope this helps!

I was originally persuaded to learn Python as an extension language
for a non-existant (but planned) game engine. :)  However, I have
found lots of other applications.  After some consideration of
the amazingly short learning curve, I've decided Python is the
language I would elect to teach first-time programmers.

-- 
Terry Hancock
hancock at earthlink.net



From benc at rehame.com  Tue Jan  9 23:47:39 2001
From: benc at rehame.com (Ben Catanzariti)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 15:47:39 +1100
Subject: book recommendation?
References: <mailman.979094414.3323.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <qlpg39.bm7.ln@mail>

If you are using a Win environment i would recommend "Python Programming On
Win 32" by Hammond & Robertson. This is a must have. or for a general OS
information "Programming Python" another must have (you can never have too
many) ... both published by O' Rielly and both are compliant with Version 2.

Check out

http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/pythonwin32/
http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/python2/


"Chris Watson" <chris at voodooland.net> wrote in message
news:mailman.979094414.3323.python-list at python.org...
> On Wed, 10 Jan 2001 lsloan00 at my-deja.com wrote:
>
> > Okay, I'm being too picky.  Since nobody's given any
> > suggestions, maybe my request should be:
> > Please recommend a good Python book.
>
> I was in the same spot a few days ago. Last friday actually.
> I finally settled on Python Essential Reference as the book to learn from.
> It pretty much is what *I* was looking for. A newbie book. But mainly for
> reference. Such as "hrmm what was the options and syntax for open()?"
> A quick look at the book is great for that sort of thing. It is almost a
> clone of the online tutorial but has better examples scattered about its
> pages. You should cruise to the local bookstore and check it out first and
> see what you think of it. I think it was the best book I could of
> purchased as a newbie. It doesn't cover 2.0 but I am not finding that a
> problem so far. Happy hacking!
>
> --
>
============================================================================
=
> -Chris Watson         (316) 326-3862 | FreeBSD Consultant, FreeBSD Geek
> Work:              scanner at jurai.net | Open Systems Inc., Wellington,
Kansas
> Home:  scanner at deceptively.shady.org | http://open-systems.net
>
============================================================================
=
> WINDOWS: "Where do you want to go today?"
> LINUX: "Where do you want to go tomorrow?"
> BSD: "Are you guys coming or what?"
>
============================================================================
=
> irc.openprojects.net #FreeBSD -Join the revolution!
> ICQ: 20016186
>
>




From cerutti at together.net  Thu Jan 25 14:41:19 2001
From: cerutti at together.net (Neil Cerutti)
Date: 25 Jan 2001 19:41:19 GMT
Subject: Tkinter vs wxPython: your opinions?
References: <3A6F899F.E164F628@home.com> <hvZb6.2156$_8.33280@news1.rdc1.bc.home.com>
Message-ID: <slrn9710o1.73.cerutti@fiad06.norwich.edu>

Dethe Elza posted:
>Purely anecdotal information:
>
>I was building a simple app in wxPython on Windows because I'd
>heard Tkinter was 'too slow.' Things were relatively OK, but
>when I tried to run it on Linux some functions were not yet
>implemented and the program would coredump frequently.
>wxPython/wxWindows is a swiftly moving target, so these problems
>may well be fixed now.  But I ported to Tkinter and it's been
>fast enough for my limited needs, and with Tkinter 3000 I expect
>it to be even faster (haven't had time to test that yet, perhaps
>this weekend).
>
>Using Tkinter also has the advantage that it will work on my
>antique Mac Duo which my 4-year old daughter uses for games.
>This is pretty crucial for me, since what I'm writing is
>basically a game for her.

The current documentation for Tkinter is much better than what is
available for wxPython. 

For comparison purposes, I'm writing my first GUI app, a simple
wrapper for slrn, in Tkinter and wxPython.

Tkinter's 'pack' layout manager is super easy to use, and with
some practice and the excellent documentation, powerful. wxPython
seems to have a couple of layout managers, but how they should be
used is a mystery. I've been forced to place everything pixel by
pixel so far.

wxPython is supposed to be faster, but it isn't for the tiny app
I've written, because it takes nearly 3 times as long to get
started.

Binding widgets to callbacks in Tkinter is much easier for me to
understand than the wxPython EVT_ macros. Tkinter's events seem
much easier to bind, since I don't have to worry about which
widget generates what event -- they all seem to generate everything
I've wanted to bind. In wxPython, I haven't figured out how to
get my app to close if I hit ESC. Nothing I've tried EVT_CHARing
has bothered to actually generate an event.

The objects in wxPython are more full-featured (I guess--for some
definition of full featured), but aren't as easily configurable
as the Tkinter ones. For example, in Tkinter, I've bound
right-clicking to a list box of news servers. A popup menu allows
me to remove that new server from the list, or add another one. I
can catch a EVT_RIGHT_BUTTON in wxPython, but I can't (so far)
find out which list item the pointer was near when the event
occurred. (For that matter, I can't make a popup menu either yet
either, though I *know* it's possible. It says in the
documentation that a Menu can be a popup.)

The widgets and windows look exactly the same, so far.

wxPython has access to more standard interface dialogs, though
Tkinter has a fair number, too. The wxPython GUI code is going to
be quite a bit shorter. It would probably lengthen if I started
using a layout manager.

My advice, although I've got limited experience, is to go with
Tkinter, and read the following great document, by Python Labs'
Fredrik Lundh:

http://www.pythonware.com/library/tkinter/introduction/index.htm
  
John Grayson has made a couple of chapters of _Python and
Tkinter_ available for free. One of those free chapters covers
the layout managers and I found it enlightening:

http://www.manning.com/Grayson/Chapters.html

wxPython's documentation seems to be in the state Tkinter's was
back when all there was was the _Tkinter life preserver_.

Better advice is probably to try them both for some small sample
app, like I have, and make up your own mind. Perhaps wxPython
makes perfect sense if you are a good C++ programmer.

-- 
Neil Cerutti <cerutti at together.net>
"If you're gonna score 125 points in a game, you've only got to
play good enough defense to hold the other team to 124. How
the hell hard is that?" -- Red Auerbach


From trotts at llnl.gov  Tue Jan  2 02:49:58 2001
From: trotts at llnl.gov (Issac Trotts)
Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2001 23:49:58 -0800
Subject: OpenGL/GLUT in python
In-Reply-To: <YXe46.16112$n%.820781@news20.bellglobal.com>; from codebert9@users.sourceforge.net on Tue, Jan 02, 2001 at 06:55:52AM +0000
References: <YXe46.16112$n%.820781@news20.bellglobal.com>
Message-ID: <20010101234958.A20921@llnl.gov>

Have you checked out the GLUT demos included with PyOpenGL?
If you look at these demos and the C GLUT demos included with 
Mesa and C GLUT then things might be clearer.  The Python
wrapper of GLUT is very similar to the C version.  

You might try a Google search for PyOpenGL.

Issac

On Tue, Jan 02, 2001 at 06:55:52AM +0000, Jeffrey Drake wrote:
> Is there any sites that are specifically focused on this topic? I am looking
> mainly for tutorial sites.
> 
> Thanx in advanced,
> Jeffrey Drake
> 
> 
> -- 
> http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list



From dsh8290 at rit.edu  Wed Jan 17 19:14:56 2001
From: dsh8290 at rit.edu (D-Man)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 19:14:56 -0500
Subject: How to import JavaClass from JPython?
In-Reply-To: <3A638EE1.BDABAA65@free.fr>; from julien.reynier@free.fr on Tue, Jan 16, 2001 at 12:05:15AM +0000
References: <3A638EE1.BDABAA65@free.fr>
Message-ID: <20010117191456.I23790@harmony.cs.rit.edu>

First off, JPython is old.  The current version is called Jython
(jython.sourceforge.net).

On Tue, Jan 16, 2001 at 12:05:15AM +0000, Julien Reynier wrote:
| Hi,
| 
| I know how to import core API classes from JPython using for example :
| from java.lang import System
| But I don't know how to import an specific class for example
| MyClass.class that I had developped.
| If I just do the same thing that with core API classes : from my.package
| import MyClass, I obtain an error message.
| 

What is your error message?  "MyClass.class" must be in the class path
otherwise the JVM can't find it.  Jython is just a Java program, after
all.

You import your classes the same way as the system classes:

from package import class

(ie:

from mypackage import MyClass

if your Java looks like:

package mypackge ;
public class MyClass { }
)

Or you can use the fully qualified name:

import mypackage
spam = mypackage.MyClass()


| Is anybody knows if a classpath or other environment variables have to
| be set to specific values ?
| 
| thanks...
| 
| Julien Reynier

HTH,
-D




From robert at roebling.de  Mon Jan 22 05:57:37 2001
From: robert at roebling.de (Robert Roebling)
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 11:57:37 +0100
Subject: ANN: wxDesigner 2.0 commercial RAD tool
Message-ID: <B691D017.12B3%robert@roebling.de>

  Hello,

wxDesigner is a dialog editor and RAD tool for the wxWindows
C++ library and its Python and Perl wrappers named wxPython
and wxPerl. It allows its users to visually create dialogs
using a simple point and click interface as well as add new
classes, handlers and getters to these dialogs.

wxDesigner is now available in English, German, Spanish and
French. New is support for notebooks and for importing dialogs
defined in XML, useful for converting existing projects from
Windows to wxWindows in general and wxDesigner in particular.

wxDesigner is available for Windows, Linux/Intel, Linux/PPC,
Solaris/Sparc and FreeBSD/Intel. A singler-user licence costs
$89, the student version $19, upgrading is free.

More information is available from:

  http://www.roebling.de

For more information about wxWindows, wxPython and wxPerl
visit the respective sites at:

  http://www.wxwindows.org
  http://www.wxpython.org
  http://wxperl.sourceforge.net

Regards,

  Robert Roebling

-- 
Robert Roebling, MD <robert at roebling.de>




From gmuller at worldonline.nl  Sat Jan 20 14:33:17 2001
From: gmuller at worldonline.nl (Gerrit Muller)
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 20:33:17 +0100
Subject: I (don'  ) will kill my Python
References: <mailman.979970182.28582.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <94cp5o$buj$1@nereid.worldonline.nl>

Tim Peters heeft geschreven in bericht ...
>[Bruno Schaefer]
<...snip...>
>> To improve the popularity of Python and to use it as first programming
>> language this topic to create standalones is very important.
>
>I don't think so.  See below.
>
<...snip...>
>Python was never designed for standalone operation.  That's life.  What
they
>*should* say is:  "This is my program!  I have created it by myself!  Look!
>And it's only 507 bytes!  Now you go to http://www.python.org/2.0/ and
click
>on 'Windows installer'.  Then we can share tiny Python programs via email
>forever after."
>
>I'm philosophically opposed to teaching kids that sharing fun programs
>requires swapping multi-megabyte platform-specific binary executables over
>high-speed internet connections.  It's much better if their friends have
>Python installed too.  Then they can also jump into the program, change it,
>improve it, do a bit of *programming* themselves.  The nearly unbounded
>artificial pain of producing platform-dependent binaries is someting Python
>was deliberately designed to get away from.
>
<...snip...>
Nevertheless I agree with Bruno that the route via a full-blown python
installation is an additional hurdle for simple demonstration versions. From
"naieve" user point of view a single-click or single copy installation is
expected for simple demonstrators.

What would the size of a platform-dependent (windows) binary for a simple
Python/Tkinter based program, using static linked libraries? Looking at the
tkinter dll's it will be in the low megabyte order of magnitude?

Assuming bytecode programs in the order of 10..100 kbyte, for frequent
sharing of programs a "normal" python installation is preferred, since this
reduces the traffic some 2 orders of magnitude.
>
>the-freeze-utilities-are-exactly-as-good-as-volunteers-made-them-ly
>    y'rs  - tim
>
regards Gerrit




From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Jan  4 00:29:35 2001
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 00:29:35 -0500
Subject: why no "do : until"?
References: <92jj3j$ff7$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <slrn94shbe.150.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <X8s36.2731$Qb7.305339@newsb.telia.net> <slrn94smds.150.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <FOt36.17$vd1.2224@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com> <slrn94t1vj.150.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <3A4E95FD.D6C737A7@engcorp.com> <slrn94tqkh.150.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <tpr46.7782$4c.597534@ruti.visi.com> <slrn954h6p.rgv.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <3A52AD6A.62D043A2@engcorp.com> <3A534367.36B1FD18@uswest.net>
Message-ID: <3A540A3F.DCF45469@engcorp.com>

Bjorn Pettersen wrote:
> 
> Peter Hansen wrote:
> > [snip]
> > You are a cowboy-hacker type of programmer, not one working as a serious
> > software engineer in a group environment, right?  Or, if the latter, your
> > management just hasn't caught on yet.
> 
> Ad hominem attacks are out of place on c.l.py

I tried to pose it as more of a question than an attack.  Anyway, you're 
directing your attack (I mean comment) at someone replying to an
individual 
who has persistently attacked the intelligence of others replying calmly 
to his postings, so perhaps your comments are misdirected.  (Oops, do you
consider that an attack, too?  Sorry, I guess I can't tell.  Personally,
I consider blanket statements about what is and is not appropriate on
Usenet to be attacks, but that's another story.)

> > Seriously, nobody who really programs for a living instead of as a hobby
> > should (in my opinion) have the attitude you express above towards a
> > maintenance issue such as this.  In my opinion.  Nothing personal.
> 
> Personally, I find it more problematic to manage all the possible places in a while
> 1 loop that an exit can take place. While an unfortunate variable initialization
> isn't good by any means, I would expect a loop that wasn't entered to be caught by
> the test harness, having a loop accidentally exit because you forgot to change one
> of the exit conditions might be harder to catch -- which incidentally is why I don't

I agree that there are a variety of ways in which maintenance can be an 
issue, and a loop with multiple exits is probably no better than a
function
with multiple exits.  On the other hand, with break and continue
statements, 
and a loop-exit flag appropriate to the situation, the while (1) loop
is easily turned into a while (not done) loop and the maintenance problem
is minimized.

The "special value as initializer" situation is equally easy to remedy,
as we've seen.  The point is that in either case the code doesn't
implement
the desired solution well, or the solution is too complex for the problem.
All we've been doing here is trying to point out the way(s) in which the
initialization issue can be a Bad Thing, as multiple exits can be.

> Since nobody is going to change their mind at this point, can we hope that this
> thread will die?

We can hope, but perhaps some of us are still finding interesting
viewpoints
worth considering.  I'm happy you pointed out that downside of my off-hand
remark about allowing multiple exit points from a "while (1)" loop, and
perhaps others are learning something new.

If people don't want to participate, no one's stopping them...

Cheers!
-Peter


From sholden at holdenweb.com  Fri Jan  5 10:47:33 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 10:47:33 -0500
Subject: Returning the path of a file
References: <mjob5tgge328h1sj94elg4b8sldrtteeus@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <02m56.4986$xT.159306@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>

Daniel Klein <danielk at aracnet.com> wrote in message
news:mjob5tgge328h1sj94elg4b8sldrtteeus at 4ax.com...
> I've search the Beazley book as well as the Python reference materials
> and can't find answers to these two basically simple questions:
>
> 1) How to return the path of a file previously opened in read-only
> mode?
>
> myfile = open("foo")
>
> I know I can do something like
>
> os.getcwd()
>
> and this is where 'myfile' is, but if the file was opened by some
> other method, I would like to be able to interrogate where it was
> opened from.
>
File objects have a name attribute, which you can access to obtain the
parameter given to open(), but you may then need to construct the full path
using os.curdir() and os.path operations.

>>> os.chdir("c:\\windows")
>>> f = open("newfile.txt")
>>> f.name
'newfile.txt'

>
> 2) Is there a builtin or method to delete a file or do I have to
> execute an os process to do this?
>
remove() or unlink() will both take a path and delete the associated file.
removedirs() and rmdir() operate on directories.

>
> experiencing-python-growing-pains-ly y'rs,
> Daniel Klein
> Portland, OR USA
>
>
>





From grante at visi.com  Sat Jan 13 21:17:49 2001
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 02:17:49 GMT
Subject: do python programmers avoid the mac? 
References: <3A607DCC.7EF7809C@mjs400.co.uk>
Message-ID: <slrn96232d.62n.grante@isis.visi.com>

In article <3A607DCC.7EF7809C at mjs400.co.uk>, Pete wrote:

>Ordinary Bloke seeks stable python2.0 mac ide environment for possible
>long term development antics. Don't tell me to buy a noisy steenkin
>intel fat box.

You don't have to buy a noisy steenkin intel fat box:

Run Linux!

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  I had a lease on an
                                  at               OEDIPUS COMPLEX back in
                               visi.com            '81...


From mwh21 at cam.ac.uk  Thu Jan 18 19:44:24 2001
From: mwh21 at cam.ac.uk (Michael Hudson)
Date: 19 Jan 2001 00:44:24 +0000
Subject: interesting bound-built-in-method technique
References: <9476k6$d55$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <qzJ96.4886$LZ5.22165@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <m3y9w81ic7.fsf@atrus.jesus.cam.ac.uk>

"Steve Holden" <sholden at holdenweb.com> writes:

[snip]
 
> >>> m = {'parrot': "alive"}
> >>> f('parrot')
> 'dead'
> 
> It just removes the mutable object reference from the namespace, presumably
> meaning you can't change it any more. Neat. But will the reference to its
> method be enough to stop Python from garbage collecting it [I have to
> believe the answer is 'yes'].

Yes.

Cheers,
M.

-- 
  ... but I'd rather not reinvent the wheel if I don't have to.  On
  the other hand, if the currently instantiated version of the wheel
  consists of a square rock covered with moss, I might as well just
  start fresh.                          -- Roy Smith, comp.lang.python


From dale at out-think.NOSPAMco.uk  Tue Jan  2 15:19:04 2001
From: dale at out-think.NOSPAMco.uk (Dale Strickland-Clark)
Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2001 20:19:04 +0000
Subject: Printing with wxPython
References: <ecsu4t89nigkvgna3kr8a53c84pgf4l3mu@4ax.com> <mailman.978454503.8891.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <jtd45tc0n3jkk270so1f3t3unihni4gad1@4ax.com>

entropia <entropiamax at jazzfree.com> wrote:

>At www.vex.net/parnassus I found:
>http://starship.python.net/crew/jjkunce/wxpython/
>1. Printable Text Controls for wxPython
>
>prntxtwx.py includes the class PrintableTextControl which adds OnDoPrint() and OnPrintSetup()
>methods to its parent class, wxTextCtrl. Also provides control of print margins and line wrap.
>(Margins may not be working quite right).
>
>Dale Strickland-Clark escribi?:
>
>> I'm trying to get to grips with wxPython and printing on Windows.
>>
>> Has anyone got a very simple sample that sets up a device context and prints some text or simple
>> graphics?
>>
>> I can't find any printing examples.
>>
>> Thanks for any help.
>>
>> --
>> Dale Strickland-Clark
>> Out-Think Ltd
>> Business Technology Consultants
>> --
>> http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>

Thanks. I'll take a look.
--
Dale Strickland-Clark
Out-Think Ltd
Business Technology Consultants


From quinn at cruzeiro.ugcs.caltech.edu  Wed Jan 31 18:40:50 2001
From: quinn at cruzeiro.ugcs.caltech.edu (Quinn Dunkan)
Date: 31 Jan 2001 23:40:50 GMT
Subject: curly-brace-aphobic?
References: <3A74EBD6.3C87FD15@seebelow.org> <slrn97a9fu.7sf.clgonsal@keeshah.penguinpowered.com> <3A757FBE.E54C5ECD@seebelow.org> <mailman.980789494.4239.python-list@python.org> <slrn97c6bs.bjo.scarblac@pino.selwerd.nl> <mailman.980870616.378.python-list@python.org> <slrn97eob8.gjm.scarblac@pino.selwerd.nl>
Message-ID: <slrn97h8k2.aod.quinn@cruzeiro.ugcs.caltech.edu>

On 31 Jan 2001 00:57:48 GMT, Remco Gerlich <scarblac at pino.selwerd.nl> wrote:
>Well, writing "string.split" is inconsistent, shouldn't it be string[split]
>or string["split"]?
>
>It's like indexing the module. It is actually a dict lookup internally.
>They're not the same thing really since an identifier suddenly becomes a
>string and so on, but it's just a connection my mind made...

You'd like lua, then.  Everything is a table.  Modules (which are not built
into the langauge, naturally) are tables.  Arrays are tables indexed with
numbers.  foo.bar is sugar for foo['bar'].  It's theoretically appealing, but
sometimes causes additional complexity, when, for example, you want to know
how long an array is (the convention is to have an 'n' key with the length).

And tables are created with {} but indexed with [] :)


From quinn at groat.ugcs.caltech.edu  Tue Jan 30 03:15:27 2001
From: quinn at groat.ugcs.caltech.edu (Quinn Dunkan)
Date: 30 Jan 2001 08:15:27 GMT
Subject: curly-brace-aphobic?
References: <3A74EBD6.3C87FD15@seebelow.org> <slrn97a9fu.7sf.clgonsal@keeshah.penguinpowered.com> <slrn97bicg.8va.quinn@bolivar.ugcs.caltech.edu> <VQld6.131650$ge4.48028897@news2.rdc2.tx.home.com>
Message-ID: <slrn97cu0u.eti.quinn@groat.ugcs.caltech.edu>

On Mon, 29 Jan 2001 22:07:49 GMT, Rainer Deyke <root at rainerdeyke.com> wrote:
>"Quinn Dunkan" <quinn at bolivar.ugcs.caltech.edu> wrote in message
>> So even in a language where functions are the major important element,
>> efficiency dictates a data-oriented view.  And python is pretty
>data-oriented
>> anyway, so a functional representation would be out of character.  And
>> mutation is important in python, while a functional representation gives
>no
>> opportunity for that.
>
>None of these is really a compelling reason for using '[]' instead of '()'
>for access.  There is no efficiency difference in Python because both are
>implemented as (hidden) method calls, and languages like C++ allow 'f(5) =
>5;'.  Is there any good reason for function calls to use a different syntax
>than mapping/sequence element access?

Oh, so you mean "why not make the function-call *syntax* double for dictionary
access"?  Well, easy, because we have a dictionary access syntax already.

In python, as in just about all OO languages, [] just a method call, like '*',
'+', etc.  A function/method call is *not* a method call, because you'd never
get out of that little sinkhole.

If you're going to use function syntax, you should use function semantics, and
functions (AFAIK) are just about always immutable.  Otherwise you are writing
self-modifying code (and I'm sure in python it's possible to go mangle
func_code.co_code, but you're not supposed to do that in polite company).  I
don't know any languages where self-modifying code is the norm, so I'm used to
thinking of functions as things that you don't reach inside of and change at
runtime.

It's true, if you write a class that uses __call__, you can make it look like
a function call.  You can then mutate the class, and it looks like you're
mutating a function.  But you can make lots of weird looking syntax by abusing
__getattr__, __getitem__, __call__, and the like :)  I mean, I could
also understand a function that holds a static pointer (oops, slipped into
C-land) to some dict which is mutating, and thus gives you different values.
But then it's the dict, not the function, doing the mapping, so making it
*look* like the function is doing the mapping is a lie.

Also, if you think of a dict as a function mapping keys to vals, *all* you can
do is get a val from a key.  The only way to check for the existence of a key
is have the function return a tuple (error_flag, possible_val).  There's no
way to get all the keys, except remember them in another function (mapping
integers or some known sequence to keys).

If C++ allows 'f(x) = y;', then C++ is truly weird.  What is *that* supposed
to mean?  'f(x)' returns a value, and assigning to a value makes no sense.
You assign to variables, not values.  I could understand '*(f(x)) = y;', but
the only way I can see to get 'f(x) = y;' to do what you want is to have 'f'
return an lvalue.  Icon does stuff like that, but it has an excuse: it's icon.
Just out of curiosity, what is the type of the C++ 'f' function above (and
don't say "cpp macro" :) ?  It's likely C++'s idea of assignment is one I'm
not familiar with.

In any case, python has a SyntaxError for that:

SyntaxError: can't assign to function call

And it's the 'no traceback' flavor of SyntaxError, which means it's for real
:)


From bhellao at my-deja.com  Fri Jan 19 17:00:10 2001
From: bhellao at my-deja.com (Opinderjit)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 22:00:10 GMT
Subject: libswigpy for NT
Message-ID: <94add5$7o5$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

Is there a libswigpy library for the NT environment?

Thank you.


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From tim.one at home.com  Mon Jan  1 18:43:45 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2001 18:43:45 -0500
Subject: Is 100,000 entries big for a dictionary?
In-Reply-To: <92on4o$2ei$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCEEEEIGAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Tim]
> On most machines hash values are 32 bits, and are always
> computed as such, and are cached in the dict entry.
> When it's time to grow, the table does double in size,
> but hash values are not recomputed -- it simply uses one
> more of the hash bits that's always been there.  Note
> that entries are reinserted when the table grows --
> that's probably not what you meant by "the usual
> extensible hashing mechanism". ..

[rturpin at my-deja.com]
> Actually, that describes exactly what I meant. This is
> now a pretty standard algorithm used in a variety of
> DBMS and other applications. Only the entries whose
> next bit is 1 need to be reinserted, though that can
> cause other entries to move in the lower half if there
> were previous collisions.

Well, at this point you would have an easier time reading dictobject.c than
I would have guessing exactly what you mean <wink>.  Python's hash table
structure is utterly vanilla, a contiguous vector of 2**N structs -- it's
just that sometimes a brand new vector 2x bigger (or 2**M times smaller) may
get allocated and everything moves to the new vector.  All references to
extensible (more often "extendible") hashing I've seen have a much fancier
scheme in mind, with a directory (or index) table pointing to buckets that
can split independently; the thrust of such schemes is to ensure that an
item can be found with no more than two disk accesses (incl. one for the
directory table, if it's paged out).  I believe that's the std meaning, and
it doesn't have anything in common with Python's scheme beyond hash
functions and powers of 2; e.g.,

    http://hissa.nist.gov/dads/HTML/extendibleHashing.html
    http://www.cs.byu.edu/courses/cs453/lecture18.html
    http://www.csm.astate.edu/~rossa/datastruc/Extend.html
    http://www.cs.purdue.edu/homes/sunil/syllabi/541/Lecture5/sld006.htm
    http://www.istis.unomaha.edu/isqa/haworth/isqa3300/fs009.htm

The last link is especially cool because it contains an implementation in
gloriously readable COBOL <wink>.

SIGN-OFF-USING-LY-SIG-ly y'rs  - tim




From ccosse at psl.nmsu.edu  Tue Jan 16 13:52:03 2001
From: ccosse at psl.nmsu.edu (charles cosse)
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 11:52:03 -0700
Subject: help finding python20_d.lib for download?
Message-ID: <3A649853.5CFBC157@psl.nmsu.edu>

Hi, i have to use python in windows for 1 small task and
can't  link my C module because i need python20_d.lib.
Can anyone help me find the downloadable archive which
contains it? Thanks a lot!
Charles



From SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk  Thu Jan  4 04:25:19 2001
From: SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk (Simon Brunning)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 09:25:19 -0000 
Subject: variable inirialization and loop forms (was Re: why no "do : 
	until"?)
Message-ID: <31575A892FF6D1118F5800600846864D5B168A@intrepid>

> From:	grey at despair.rpglink.com [SMTP:grey at despair.rpglink.com]
> On Wed, 3 Jan 2001 13:40:38 +0100, Alex Martelli <aleaxit at yahoo.com>
> wrote:
> >Initializing variables *to correct values* is a great thing -- but using
> >*arbitrary* values for the initialization isn't optimal style.
> 
>     I still stand that initting a variable is just that, setting it to a
> known, arbitrary value.
 
I've had just about enough of this. It strikes me that the root of this
particular spat is that people are using two different definitions of the
work 'arbitrary'. /F, Alex and others are using it to mean that one
particular value (the 'arbitrary' value) has a special meaning. Steve is
using it to mean any old value.

Rather than get into an argument as to which of these is the *correct* use
of the word (FWIW, my reading of the OED offers some support for *both*
meanings), let's just stop using the word altogether in this thread, eh?

Having a quick look at Steve McConnell's 'Code Complete (a Bible to me), he
refers to what /F is objecting to as 'a variable with a hidden meaning', or
'hybrid coupling'. Hmm, don't like that second one much. Let's go with the
first.

Cheers,
Simon Brunning
TriSystems Ltd.
sbrunning at trisystems.co.uk
It is not necessary to change. Survival is not mandatory. - Dr. W. Edwards
Deming




-----------------------------------------------------------------------
The information in this email is confidential and may be legally privileged.
It is intended solely for the addressee. Access to this email by anyone else
is unauthorised. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure,
copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in
reliance on it, is prohibited and may be unlawful. TriSystems Ltd. cannot
accept liability for statements made which are clearly the senders own.



From fredrik at effbot.org  Thu Jan 11 10:41:06 2001
From: fredrik at effbot.org (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 15:41:06 GMT
Subject: BUG Python 2.0 FreeBSD compile problem
References: <HvMQc3AYabX6Ewau@jessikat.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: <muk76.5496$Qb7.762946@newsb.telia.net>

Robin Becker wrote:
> When building Python 2.0 with FreeBSD xxx.com 2.2.7-STABLE FreeBSD 2.2.7-STABLE
> I get undefined references to _TELL64 at load time unless I change line 61 of
> Objects/fileobject.c from
>
> #elif defined(__NetBSD__) || defined(__OpenBSD__)
>
> to
>
> #elif defined(__NetBSD__) || defined(__OpenBSD__) || defined(__FreeBSD__)

http://sourceforge.net/bugs/?func=detailbug&bug_id=128119&group_id=5470

(still says "Resolution: None", but I'm pretty sure a fixed
was checked into CVS a couple of days ago...  if you can
verify that the CVS version builds cleanly, let us know!)

Cheers /F




From nas at arctrix.com  Fri Jan  5 18:37:20 2001
From: nas at arctrix.com (Neil Schemenauer)
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 15:37:20 -0800
Subject: web application environments [was: Migrating to perl?]
In-Reply-To: <20010106001359.DE54BA84F@darjeeling.zadka.site.co.il>; from moshez@zadka.site.co.il on Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 02:13:59AM +0200
References: <14933.21680.440187.266261@beluga.mojam.com>, <3Fa56.4580$of7.216286@news1.atl> <14933.21680.440187.266261@beluga.mojam.com> <20010106001359.DE54BA84F@darjeeling.zadka.site.co.il>
Message-ID: <20010105153719.B6016@glacier.fnational.com>

On Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 02:13:59AM +0200, Moshe Zadka wrote:
> The big problem with Mason's approach (I use it all the time at work) is
> that is a preprocessing tool, rather then a compiler. That means syntax
> error crop up in the *compiled* Perl code, which has no relation to
> the original Mason code where you made the error. I spent 30 minutes
> yesterday finding out where I had an extra curly brace.

This is how Quixote's template language, PTL, used to work.
Debugging template code was a pain in the ass.  Now that PTL
modules are compiled and executed by the Python bytecode
interpreter life is much nicer.  Tracebacks are cool.  I can't
imagine doing a sophisticated web application the old way.  Then
again, I'm biased. :)

   Neil



From tismer at tismer.com  Sun Jan  7 17:37:55 2001
From: tismer at tismer.com (Christian Tismer)
Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2001 00:37:55 +0200
Subject: ANN: Stackless Python 2.0
Message-ID: <3A58EFC3.5A722FF0@tismer.com>

Dear community,

I'm happy to announce that

		Stackless Python 2.0

is finally ready and available for download.

Stackless Python for Python 1.5.2+ also got some minor
enhancements. Both versions are available as Win32
installer files here:

http://www.stackless.com/spc20-win32.exe
http://www.stackless.com/spc15-win32.exe

Speed: Stackless Python for Python 2.0 is again a bit faster
than the original. This time even better: About 9-10 percent.
I have to say that optimization was much harder this time.
My speed patches are now done by a Python script, which will
make maintenance and diff reading much easier in the future.

There is now also a bit of example code available, like
the uthread9.py Microthreads module from Will Ware, Just van Rossum,
and Mike Fletcher.

Source code and an update to the website will become available in
the next days.

enjoy - chris

-- 
Christian Tismer             :^)   <mailto:tismer at tismer.com>
Mission Impossible 5oftware  :     Have a break! Take a ride on Python's
Kaunstr. 26                  :    *Starship* http://starship.python.net
14163 Berlin                 :     PGP key -> http://wwwkeys.pgp.net
PGP Fingerprint       E182 71C7 1A9D 66E9 9D15  D3CC D4D7 93E2 1FAE F6DF
     where do you want to jump today?   http://www.stackless.com



From phlip_cpp at my-deja.com  Sat Jan 20 14:18:09 2001
From: phlip_cpp at my-deja.com (Phlip)
Date: 20 Jan 2001 19:18:09 GMT
Subject: Where's a built version of dcop.py?
Message-ID: <94co9h$74k@freepress.concentric.net>

Pythons:

I seek a compiled or packaged form of dcop.py. This links KDE's DCOP object 
message broker to python, letting one script KDE apps.

The only version I can find is in the KDE CVS repository, down here:

        kdebindings/dcoppython/lib/dcop.py

When I compile this, following the README directions, I get absurd errors 
that I shan't disturb a Python group with.

-- 
  Phlip                          phlip_cpp at my-deja.com
============ http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?PhlIp ============
  --  Founding member of NuGWa -
        Nudists for Global Warming  --


From mwh21 at cam.ac.uk  Tue Jan 30 13:28:37 2001
From: mwh21 at cam.ac.uk (Michael Hudson)
Date: 30 Jan 2001 18:28:37 +0000
Subject: Sets in Python
References: <956hcd$qef$1@tyfon.itea.ntnu.no> <956s6k013u0@news2.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <m3snm07v3e.fsf@atrus.jesus.cam.ac.uk>

"Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com> writes:

> "Magnus Lie Hetland" <mlh at idi.ntnu.no> wrote in message
> news:956hcd$qef$1 at tyfon.itea.ntnu.no...
> >
> > I quite often use dictionaries as sets in Python... But it doesn't really
> > seem pretty enough to me... Some arbitrariness (as with
> > "while 1: ... break" I still don't like that one...) about using what
> > to me is a value as a key, and assigning it some value -- like 1,
> > for instance... And then checking it with has_key, and removing
> > it with del...
> >
> > Isn't there a better (more beautiful) way of doing this?
> 
> Hi Magnus!  It's been a while...
> 
> In Python 2.1, you'll be able to use
>     if x in dict
> as a synonym for
>     if dict.has_key(x)
> [and *maybe* the for-loop equivalent, too -- I'm still unclear
> about that one, and it doesn't seem to be in the first alpha].

Uh huh; maybe not.  There have been second thoughts at high levels -
expect a PEP and to maybe see these features in 2.2.

Cheers,
M.

-- 
  The PROPER way to handle HTML postings is to cancel the article,
  then hire a hitman to kill the poster, his wife and kids, and fuck
  his dog and smash his computer into little bits. Anything more is
  just extremism.                 -- attributed to Paul Tomblin on ASR


From scarblac at pino.selwerd.nl  Wed Jan 24 10:04:58 2001
From: scarblac at pino.selwerd.nl (Remco Gerlich)
Date: 24 Jan 2001 15:04:58 GMT
Subject: How do I know all thrown exceptions of a function?
References: <g3lb49.73s.ln@127.0.0.1> <94d93h$55d$1@troll.powertech.no> <mailman.980059223.25947.python-list@python.org> <slrn96rk66.ugd.scarblac@pino.selwerd.nl> <mailman.980287769.21816.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrn96tref.gb.scarblac@pino.selwerd.nl>

Paul Foley mailed me his comments, I'm assuming he meant to post to the
group. I'll paste in some of them, since he disagreed interestingly :-)
(his quotes marked with |)

I've left D-Man's comments in although I comment mainly on Paul's, but
whatever :)

D-Man <dsh8290 at rit.edu> wrote in comp.lang.python:
> On Tue, Jan 23, 2001 at 06:48:45PM +0000, Remco Gerlich wrote:
 > | - All the exceptions your code explicitly throws should inherit
> |   some base exception defined in your module, so that that can
> |   be tested for.
> 
> I agree with this.  It makes handling all exceptions of a certain
> classification easy.

(Paul)
| No.  If your code gets, say, a bad value, it should raise ValueError,
| not some new version of ValueError defined only in that module.

Ah, of course. If there's an obvious builtin exception for exactly this
problem, use that. That should cover many cases.

My point is though, say you have some markup language parser that is looking
for an end tag. Your string.index() call fails with a ValueError (end marker
not found). Now it would be best to catch that and raise some sort of
mymarkupparser.MissingEndTag exception, not to simply pass on the unhelpful
ValueError that might change once you switch to regular expressions.

(Paul)
| It's often useful to define a bunch of new exceptions for your module,
| but probably equally often, you want the built-in exceptions [or,
| occasionally, exceptions defined in third-party modules you imported.
| E.g., a module that defines some new kind of network socket might want
| to raise socket.error...though this is a bad example; socket.error is
| rather under-specific...]

I don't like using exceptions from completely different modules you happen
to use. That is where it becomes hard to find out for the user what
exceptions your code might raise, and now they need to import that module to
use its exceptions, and read its documentation, when the whole points is
that they reach it through your module so they don't have to know about it.

> | - Avoid throwing exceptions that have to do with your implementation
> |   to the outside world. If your module function gets an argument that
> |   is out of range, resulting in an IndexError, don't just pass that on
> |   to the caller but catch it and raise a custom exception yourself,
> |   that inherits from your module's standard exception. Hide your
> |   implementation.
> 
> I agree with this as well.  I did this when modifying a library to
> actually throw exceptions :-).  It had try{ ... } catch( Exception e ) {
> return false ; } in it.  (Java lib someone else copied from a C lib).
> It made the errors much more useful.
 
(Paul)
| Au contraire; pass on that IndexError if it makes sense to do so
| (i.e., if you can't handle it inside your code, and its not some
| implementation detail that could go away with a different
| implementation (unlikely, for IndexError)). 

But if it's caused by a bad input value, it should raise ValueError - so you
catch it and raise the other exception. Otherwise you have to remember for
each library function what the exception is that it throws when you give it
wrong input (and there might be several possibilities).

(Paul)
| Catching it only to raise
| some custom exception is conceptually horrible, as well as being
| generally impossible (think higher-level functions, or callbacks.  You
| don't know what the user wants to do when exceptions happen in his own
| code that's being called by yours, and if you alter his exceptions,
| you'll break his handlers!  Utterly evil!)

Ok, functions you know nothing about that are passed in as an argument,
those are an exception. If you know nothing about what it does, you
shouldn't change it either...

(Paul)
| Perhaps the best advice is "know what you're doing, and write code
| that behaves sensibly", rather than trying to enforce some overly
| strict rules.

Of course. But discussing what good rules of thumb would be makes it a
lot easier to behave sensibly later :-).

-- 
Remco Gerlich


From martin.franklin at westerngeco.com  Tue Jan 23 09:32:11 2001
From: martin.franklin at westerngeco.com (Martin Franklin)
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 14:32:11 +0000
Subject: Editor font in IDLE (Linux)
References: <mailman.980252066.30237.python-list@python.org> <94k31p$geg$1@reader1.imaginet.fr>
Message-ID: <3A6D95EB.6041A685@westerngeco.com>

Take a look in EditorWindow.py it has this on line 142....

        if sys.platform[:3] == 'win':
            text['font'] = ("lucida console", 8)
#            text['font'] = ("courier new", 10)
	

change it to just ...

	text['font'] = ("Courier ", 14)

or whatever font you like.....

Martin


Gilles Lenfant wrote:
> 
> Thanks...
> 
> But for deployment reasons, I need a solution that works with Python 1.5.2
> that does not run IDLE 0.6 (some Unicode constants and others).
> 
> After a quick view, hacking IDLE 0.6 to make it work with Python 1.5.2 is
> more difficult than it seemed at first.
> 
> "Simon Brunning" <SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk> a ?crit dans le message news:
> mailman.980252066.30237.python-list at python.org...
> > > From: Gilles Lenfant [SMTP:glt at e-pack.net]
> > > There is no "config-unix.txt" file in any Python related directory.
> > > Perhaps you are using another IDLE version than mine (0.5).
> >
> > The file that Bryan mentioned was introduced in IDLE version 0.6. Why not
> > upgrade to that version?
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Simon Brunning
> > TriSystems Ltd.
> > sbrunning at trisystems.co.uk
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > The information in this email is confidential and may be legally
> privileged.
> > It is intended solely for the addressee. Access to this email by anyone
> else
> > is unauthorised. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure,
> > copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in
> > reliance on it, is prohibited and may be unlawful. TriSystems Ltd. cannot
> > accept liability for statements made which are clearly the senders own.
> >
> 
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list



From cfelling at iae.nl  Wed Jan 24 16:06:35 2001
From: cfelling at iae.nl (Carel Fellinger)
Date: 24 Jan 2001 22:06:35 +0100
Subject: python-2.1 function attributes
References: <ul3snm8dfae.fsf@smaug.fsl.noaa.gov> <m3n1cgzvpj.fsf@atrus.jesus.cam.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <94ng4r$gin$1@animus.fel.iae.nl>

Michael Hudson <mwh21 at cam.ac.uk> wrote:
> Mike Romberg <romberg at smaug.fsl.noaa.gov> writes:

>>   I've been messing around with python-2.1a1 and have discovered the
>> new feature 'function attributes'.  The project I'm currently working
>> on can really use this feature.  The feature itself would be much more
>> useful if one could predefine a set of attributes with the function
>> definition.  This is one of the things mentioned in the 'future
>> directions' sections of pep 232 
>> 
>> http://python.sourceforge.net/peps/pep-0232.html
>> 
>>   So... I guess I'd like to put in one 'yes' vote for this extension :).

> I suspect if you can come up with a decent syntax, it will go in.  I
> can't though.  Any ideas?

I'm always full of ideas, whether they make sence...

in current Python (1.5, 2.0) you can do:

    >>> def f():
    ...     'spam'
    ...     print f.__doc__
    ...     f.__doc__ = f.__doc__ + ' and spam'
    ...
    >>> f()
    spam
    >>> f()
    spam and spam

why not enhance this like in:

    >>> def f()
    ...     with:
    ...         f.__doc__ = 'spam'
    ...     print f.__doc__
    ...     f.__doc__ = f.__doc__ + ' and spam'
    ...
    >>> f()
    spam
    >>> f()
    spam and spam

and play some tricks to allow "with: suit" only here without it being
a true keyword.
-- 
groetjes, carel


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Tue Jan  9 12:07:11 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 18:07:11 +0100
Subject: embedding python in C++
References: <934r1a$pda$1@troll.powertech.no> <93a3lp01kpg@news1.newsguy.com> <93b02a$tr8$1@troll.powertech.no> <93cq6n0186t@news1.newsguy.com> <YmE66.99$k25.1060@news1.oke.nextra.no>
Message-ID: <93fgim04oc@news1.newsguy.com>

"Syver Enstad" <syver at NOSPAMcyberwatcher.com> wrote in message
news:YmE66.99$k25.1060 at news1.oke.nextra.no...
>
> "Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:93cq6n0186t at news1.newsguy.com...
> > You could do it all in C++ without real pain -- whence, the 'somewhat'
in
> > my sentence above, rather than 'massively':-): instantiating the Python
> > type C++ object (which need only implement a 'write' method, and let
> > 'softspace' be set & gotten from Python) in C++, and using, again from
> C++,
> Mmm, that's what I did, didn't implement the softspace attribute though.
> What's it for anyway?

Python's print statement sets it when it sees a comma (requiring
space-separation), reads it back to determine if it must output a
space, etc.  Basically it's used to avoid a useless trailing space
in cases such as
    print goo,
    print
I don't know what happens if you don't let softspace be set & read
(i.e., whether print degrades gracefully or what) -- note that all
Python instance objects ARE 'expando' (Javascript terminology) by
defaults, so you don't normally have to do anything special to enable
it, but, if you're using your own C-level type rather than a Python
implemented instance...


> > PyObject_SetAttrString to set it directly as the 'stdout' attribute of
> > the sys module.
>
> I did that from python instead.

Yep, but that's not significantly more difficult to do from C.


> >on the basis of "do the simplest
> > thing that can possibly work", it's probably best avoided anyway.
> Yeah, shave it with Occam's razor!
>
> > Another principle (a corollary of the main one) being, of course, "as
> little
> > C++ as you can possibly get away with":-).
> Yes, but sometimes it's fun struggle with C++ too, but it generally

Sure.  Running 10 miles every morning is very good exercise, too
(and probably even better for your health), just not the easiest
way to go from point A to point B (generally:-).

> dispappears when I start trying to reuse things which is a real pain in
C++,
> not to mention runtime libraries, and the need to have a lib compiled in
at
> least 4 different versions dependening on which other libraries you link
> with.

Platform issues I guess...


> >Personally, I currently use the Boost Python Library (BPL), at
> > www.boost.org, for all C++/Python work that I don't do through COM (with
> > the sole exception of what I need to do in C for general acceptance:-).
>
> Yes, boost looks interesting. I've downloaded it, but I don't think I'll
use
> it before I have a better grasp of the underlying API.

It can spoil you by masking the API so gracefully, yes:-).


> > Sorry, can't help you here, either.  If I _was_ in a
threading-is-crucial,
> > Win32-only situation, I'd be *certain* to use ActiveScripting, which
> > *ensures* I can instantiate just as many interpreters as I need (and
they
> > _shouldn't_ thread on each other toes -- though I have NOT had occasion
> > to test this... as threading is another of those "the least I can
possibly
> > get away with" complications, in my worldview:-).
>
> Okay, do you have any examples on how to use that instead?

Use what?  ActiveScripting?  Sure, it's pretty easy (via Microsoft
ScriptControl).  Instantiate in each relevant thread (after suitably
CoInitializeEx'ing, of course) a "MSScriptControl.Control" object,
set its "Language" property to the string "Python", add code to
this instance with the method 'AddCode', and of course use its
ExecuteStatement and Eval methods to do -- guess what (execute
statements, and evaluate methods, respectively!-).  You need to
expose your own functionalities as Automation (COM) interfaces and
add them with names to the ScriptControl via the ScriptControl's
AddObject method, see e.g. Q185889 on MSDN (all examples I've ever
found of ScriptControl are in/for VB, but then you do generally
need to be able to read some VB code to make heads or tails out of
most object models' documentations!-).  A good general overview
article (again VB-oriented) can be found at
    http://www.microsoft.com/mind/0799/script/script.htm

My "Win32 API" tutorial (for C, and in Italian) does include an
example of ScriptControl use (http://aleax.supereva.it/TutWin32/s39.htm),
but the comments &c are in Italian and the example does NOT need to
expose any functionality to the scripts (just uses the control to
interpretively execute arbitrary expressions entered by the user,
for the purpose of doing a function-plot -- it's really just a
didactical exercise on doing some graphics at the API level!-).


Alex





From emile at fenx.com  Sun Jan 21 10:18:23 2001
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 07:18:23 -0800
Subject: Markov.py
References: <94eavq$5cl$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <94eulk$dduhj$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>

The documentation is included in the script itself, see the
start of the test routine.  On a system with a command line
interface, this runs as the documentation indicates,
however, I'm not sure how command line arguments are passed
to the Mac.  You can insert a line in the test routine:

 args = [r'd:\python20\test.txt']

to assign to args directly instead of reading it from the
command line.  At least then it does something.

HTH,

--

Emile van Sebille
emile at fenx.com
-------------------


<cpsoct at my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:94eavq$5cl$1 at nnrp1.deja.com...
> I found the following script in the mac standard
distribution (see path
> below). It seems to be Guido's, i am not sure however, i
am at a loss
> as to how to use this. I was unable to run it and there is
not
> documentation. In otherwords, i put on my detective hat
but was still
> unable to get the thing to run. Anyone use this and can
explain to me
> how? The script is a bit to big and complex for my level
of python kno-
> how, but how sweet would it be to be able to make a markov
chain in
> python without having to re-invent the wheel. Particularly
since i
> wouldn't be able to in this case!
>
> cheers,
> kevin parks
> seoul, korea
> cpsoct at lycos.com
>





From matt_g_russell at my-deja.com  Fri Jan  5 19:47:45 2001
From: matt_g_russell at my-deja.com (matt_g_russell at my-deja.com)
Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2001 00:47:45 GMT
Subject: Q: how to execute an outside program in the python ?
References: <H5356.720$WF6.14481@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu>
Message-ID: <935pvf$io0$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

In article <H5356.720$WF6.14481 at vixen.cso.uiuc.edu>,
  "Hwanjo Yu" <hwanjoyu at uiuc.edu> wrote:
> Thanks.
>
>
Using the commands module , you can get the exit status of the shell.

import commnads
aSampleUNIXCommand = "ls -al /"
(exitStatus, output) = commands.getstatusoutput(aSampleUNIXCommand)













Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From fuess at att.net  Wed Jan 31 08:35:24 2001
From: fuess at att.net (David A. Fuess)
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 13:35:24 GMT
Subject: BUG? Python 2.0 chokes on international characters in Unicode strings
References: <958g0k$f97$1@wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <shN4Oo2mg6A3gTJoKKYtZdTnFfiy@4ax.com>

This may explain why I was having problems when I extracted data drom
an international database. onr record contained o-accent, u-umlaut,
and e-umlaut. Python crashed every time I tried to perform some string
operation on a string containing these characters or if I tried to
print those strings. I think the error was a Unicode coersion error or
something like that. We may be loking at an previously unreported bug.

Dave

"Jurie Horneman" <jhorSPAMBGONneman at wanadoo.fr> wrote:

>I've checked the FAQ and the buglist, but I couldn't find anything on this.
>
>I was doing some COM programming with Python 2.0 on Windows 2000 yesterday.
>I retrieved some Unicode strings containing international characters: e
>accent grave, c accent circonflex, that kind of thing (I live in France).
>Printing these strings raised a Unicode exception. Some investigation showed
>that the exception was raised when trying to print the international
>characters. Replacing them by some dummy character "solved" the problem: the
>strings printed fine.
>
>It's odd: I've seen French COM error messages printed by Python. The
>international characters were not printed correctly ('u/351'), but at least
>it didn't crash...
>
>I haven't verified if the same thing happens with ASCII strings.
>
>Is this a known bug? (If so, AAARRGGHHH - could it really be that Python
>basically doesn't work outside of the US? Hard to believe: these characters
>are used in the Dutch language...)
>Is there some workaround? Could I convert Unicode strings to ASCII? If so,
>how?
>
>Thanks for any help on this. Please put my work address
>jhorneman at kalisto.com in copy if you can, I'm writing this from home.



From NoSpam at NoSpam.com  Sun Jan 21 23:15:02 2001
From: NoSpam at NoSpam.com (Tom)
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 04:15:02 GMT
Subject: wyPython
References: <Mk9a6.3589$3T2.181641@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <atOa6.207520$59.54897245@news3.rdc1.on.home.com>

My experience has been good on Win2K.
Check out the wxPython Demo - it is very useful.
Because it is a 'native' toolkit it is very fast.

Tom.

"Doug Farrell" <dfarrell01 at earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:Mk9a6.3589$3T2.181641 at newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
> Hi,
>
> I'd like to hear what people think of wyPython and any experience they've
> had with it, in particular as to how it compares to useing other GUI
tookits
> like Tcl/Tk for instance.
>
> Thanks,
> Doug
>
>




From sholden at holdenweb.com  Fri Jan 12 16:21:47 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 16:21:47 -0500
Subject: How robust is Python ?
References: <9358nn$3c5$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, <9354f9$vbi$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, <LOBBJMHOIFOLFIPFANHJAEJFCHAA.zope@TheWebsons.com> <mailman.978716227.31692.python-list@python.org> <mailman.978721929.3640.python-list@python.org> <20010106103938.8FCAFA84F@darjeeling.zadka.site.co.il> <mailman.979313781.1111.python-list@python.org> <93nh5u$9nk$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <NDK76.16788$Im.127874@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>

"Donn Cave" <donn at u.washington.edu> wrote in message
news:93nh5u$9nk$1 at nntp6.u.washington.edu...
[exception handler query snipped]
>
> Why apart from that?
>
> I guess we've already covered the "try: continue" issue:  "try: continue"
> just isn't supported (though the more useful "try: ... except: continue"
> does work.)  Readable flow control inside a loop is very doable.  It's
> hard for me to see that try: continue would really improve on that -
> on the contrary, continue is liable to detract from readability if it's
> used in conjunction with too many other flow control options.  I think
> "goto" would be fun, too, but I can see why in some ways we're better
> off without it.
>
Yes, but there doesn't seem to be any inherent reason *why it shouldn't* be
supported in the future. It certainly isn't detected as a syntax error,
which would be going a bit far.

> But back to the subject, I would be interested in more concrete
> examples of what exceptions we're liable to catch in a case like that.
> I have used top level handlers, but only as basically an alternative to
> the traceback, not to resume execution.  I think the initial proposal
> was to execute the program again from scratch after it exits, and it's
> pretty obvious what that's about.  But after catching some random
> exception at the top of the program, I would be concerned that the
> program might be in a compromised state and not really fit to go back
> to work.  And would that really catch the kind of lossage that could
> break a correctly written Python program, or do those things usually
> break the interpreter directly?
>
The reason *I* found for using this construct was, in pseudo-code:

#
# Handle billings by e-mail
#
for c in customer:
    try:
        read the database
        zip up relevant files
        formulate email with zip attached
        try:
            generate list of mail hosts
        except KeyboardInterrupt:
            raise
        except:
            continue
        for host in hosts:
            if known-bad-host:
                log error
                continue
            send mail
...etc

AFAIR, Python complained because the continue was in the outer "try" even
though it was in the "except" of an inner "try", although it's along time
ago now so I could be wrong.

Whatever the case, I don't see why "continue" shouldn't be acceptable in
either suite, although I accept there may be some implementational
convenience to things the way they are now.

regards
 Steve




From jan.dries at dcube-resource.be  Fri Jan 12 00:17:17 2001
From: jan.dries at dcube-resource.be (Jan Dries)
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 06:17:17 +0100
Subject: is Python fully object oriented ?
References: <20010110184830.13286.00000826@ng-fg1.aol.com> <3A5E5C21.3E036BFE@intelligenesis.net>
Message-ID: <3A5E935D.CF641658@dcube-resource.be>


Ben Hutchison wrote:
> 
> Crutoy wrote:
> 
> > Hi , i haven't used Python but i do have experience in other languages vb ,
> > java , c++ . Is Python a fully object oriented ? Thanks
> 
> I have just been considering the same questions myself. I do have a few
> concerns with Pythons OO credentials, relative to Java/C++.
> 
> 1. Most significantly, Python requires the "self" or "this" reference to be
> explicitly declared. This seems like a bit of a hassle if you do pure OO
> development with python; lots of typing! 

This is a design choice (the "explicit is better than implicit", one of
Python's favourite design choices), and as any design choice, a
compromise. It makes things more explicit. Whether you consider that to
be an advantage or a disadvantage depends on your point of view. Yes, it
requires more typing, but it also protects you from the complexity of
the many sometimes subtle disambiguation rules that C++ has to correctly
deal with the implicit use of "self" or "this". 

In either way, it has nothing whatsoever to do with the concept of OO.
It's a language implementation design choice, that, as it happens, makes
both using and implementing Python more straightforeward.

And FWIW, I have been a core C++ afficionado for more than 10 years, and
I liked it so much for it's impliciteness and conciseness. About a year
ago, I discovered Python and have since then written thousands of lines
of Python code, yet have not once experienced the typing of "self." to
be overhead, and further, although it's less important for myself as a
programmer, I find that some of my not so experienced team members have
much less trouble getting up to speed with the explicit Python approach
than with the more implicit C++ approach. 
Besides, when it comes to typing, even with the explicit "self.", Python
is still far less verbose than Java.

> Suggests perhaps that OO features were
> built onto initially procedural language.
> eg: Python
>     class MyClass:
>         def __init__(self, name):
>         def doIt(self):
> Python with implict self (as in C++, Java)
>     class MyClass:
>         def __init__(name):
>         def doIt():
> 
> 2. Access control is more informal in Python than C++/Java. I know in the case
> of Java at least that security provisions depend in part on access control
> being strictly enforced, and additonally there are a number of design
> principles that assume 3 tiered (public, protected, private) access levels.
> * Is Pythons leading underscore mechanism more of a convention?

The underscore approach is more than a convention:
Names prefixed with a single underscore are not imported by the "from
module import *" statement, and hence must be explicitely imported.
Names prefixed with double underscore are explicitely mangled so they
can't be mistakenly accessed from outside their class for instance.

> * It is strong enough to build security mechanisms on?

Even the C++ support for public/protected/private access is not strong
enough to enforce security. Quoting Stroustrup (in "The C++ Programming
Language", 3rd ed. p. 226): "The protection of private data relies on
restriction of the use of the class member names. It can therefore be
circumvented by addressing manipulation and explicit type conversion.
But this, of course, is cheating. C++ protects against accident rather
than deliberate circumvention (fraud)."
In that light the Python underscore approach does not differ from C++.
You can circumvent it, but you must explicitely do so. Although in
Python it is arguably easier to do so than in C++.

> * Can a class declare a priviledged API availalbe only to subclasses?

Here you refer to the notion of protected members. There is concensus in
some circles that protected was a bad idea in the first place. Protected
was invented for C++, and Java copied it. But Bjarne Stroustrup,
inventor of C++, now says it was a mistake introducing protected,
because it is a source of bugs and seriously complicates maintenance.
Quoting him again (in "The design and evolution of C++", p.302):
"Barbara Liskov's OOPSLA keynote [Liskov,1987] gives a detailed
explanation of the theoretical and practical problems with access
control based on the protected notion. [...] In fact, one of my concerns
about protected is exactly that it makes it too easy to use a common
base the way one might sloppily have used global data. [...] In
retrospect, I think that protected is a case where 'good arguments' and
fashion overcame my better judgement and my rules of thumb for accepting
new features."


The bottom line, IMO, is that Python has managed here (as with so many
other aspects of the language) to provide a very simple approach that at
least in practice is just as effective as the equivalent C++ or Java
feature, but at a fraction of the overhead and complexity. It is, for
example, extremely challenging to even try to understand all the
subtleties of acces control or multiple inheritance for that matter in
C++. In Python, all of this is simple to explain, just a handful of
simple rules, and simple to use, but as features in practice just as
effective as in C++.

Regards,
Jan



From m.faassen at vet.uu.nl  Sat Jan  6 22:34:33 2001
From: m.faassen at vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen)
Date: 7 Jan 2001 03:34:33 GMT
Subject: Should I learn Python or Java?
References: <HEO56.5504$y9.2881293@typhoon.we.rr.com>
Message-ID: <938o49$fj6$1@newshost.accu.uu.nl>

Charlotte Williams <charlottwilliams at mediaone.net> wrote:
[snip]
> I notice that there is a lot of demand for Java programmers.  The only
> experience I have with an OO language is Smalltalk.   My questions are:

My background: I'm not intimately familiar with VB, but I know Basics and
I know what it's about. I'm not intimately familiar with Java either,
but I know C++ and I figure I know what Java's about too. :)

> 1.  Which language would be best to learn, Java or Python.  From a VB
> standpoint, which has the least learning curve?

Python would definitely have the easier learning curve. Python's syntax
is simpler and it allows for a more interactive style of programming 
than Java. It doesn't really matter what language you're coming from,
in fact; even coming from C++ (which is much like Java in quite a few
ways, especially syntax) Python is probably easier to pick up than Java.

> 2.  Is going from object-based to object-oriented programming that huge a
> jump?   I want to learn an OO language, however I plan on utilizing it in my
> career.

OO concepts such a polymorphism are pretty important, and I'm not entirely
sure if VB supports it (though I heard it is fully OO now, so it should now,
and there's COM of course). Anyway, OO concepts in the context of Python
aren't that hard to pick up; it comes fairly natural.

> 3. Which one is the most "fun" to program in?

Python (you are asking in the Python newsgroup, right? :). Definitely
Python, though. Python's more interactive, its syntax is more concise and
still more readable, and it doesn't bother you with a lot of static
type checking, which Java definitely does.

> 4.  Is Python multi-platform?  How is it's performance compared to JAVA in
> an internet situation?  It's reliability?

Python's very multi-platform, though it takes another approach than Java;
the idea is to stick to the wide range of modules that are available 
cross platform if you want to make a cross platform Python program. There's
absolutely no problem moving from Windows to Linux, for instance, if
you do that.

Performance depends on the task you're performing. In theory, Python is
slower than Java. In practice, it's often faster. How can that be? 
Various reasons:

  * Python extension modules are in C, and therefore pretty fast, whereas
    Java has the tendency to do everything in Java, which tends to be slower
    than C.

  * Python code tends to be more high level than Java code, and it's easier
    for programmers to come up with smarter, faster, algorithms.

  * The startup time and overhead of the Python interpreter is smaller than
    that of most Java environments.

I've used Python extensively for internet programming, in the context of
Zope (http://www.zope.org), which is written in Python.

I've experienced no reliability problems with Python to speak of. It doesn't
seem to be an issue, generally.

> 5.  Do you for see Python as becoming a major player like Java servlets and
> MTS?  Can you see Python demand outstripping Java demand in 2 years time?

It's possible. I wouldn't make predictions like this, but let's say that if
people were smart this *would* happen. :) I do see Python's mindshare growing
though; 2 years ago you'd see far fewer references to it than you can see
today, for instance. There were also far fewer books on it.

> Many of these questions are in response to a post I saw earlier where Python
> was being touted as the next evolution of OO programming.  It went something
> like...
> C --> C++ --> Java --> Python.

I skipped Java myself. I've used Delphi, though, so perhaps my evolution
is comparable to that. It's not as if Python is a revolutionary OO
language; it doesn't introduce revolutionary new concepts (but neither
does Java, even though people seem to think it does). Python is very
nice in that it integrates OO without really forcing it on you, instead
making it natural. It provides just enough syntactic sugar to make it
easy on the mind, but not enough trickery to make it hard to remember it
all.

> I'm really interested in hearing from VB programmers that decided to jump
> into one or both of the languages,  has pretty good knowledge (enough to get
> a Java or Python job) and the headaches and experiences they had learning
> about them.  Do you need a formal CS education to grasp them?

I wouldn't think so, but in either case it'd help. An informal CS 
education and a curious mind are definitely enough, though.

Good luck!

Martijn
-- 
History of the 20th Century: WW1, WW2, WW3?
No, WWW -- Could we be going in the right direction?


From aotto2 at my-deja.com  Mon Jan  8 02:12:49 2001
From: aotto2 at my-deja.com (aotto2 at my-deja.com)
Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2001 07:12:49 GMT
Subject: CO-process
References: <93a535$n76$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <_2666.240898$U46.7569402@news1.sttls1.wa.home.com> <4i666.240905$U46.7570799@news1.sttls1.wa.home.com>
Message-ID: <93bp9f$v1h$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

In article <4i666.240905$U46.7570799 at news1.sttls1.wa.home.com>,
  "Patrick Logan" <patrickdlogan at home.com> wrote:
>
> <aotto2 at my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:93a535$n76$1 at nnrp1.deja.com...
> >
> >   after Mirosoft create .NET , it's time to answer
> >
> >   have a look to:
> >
> >     http://home.t-online.de/home/aotto/mqcon_E.html
>
> The CO-process does not seem to support multiple languages in the same
OS
> process operating on a shared object model/space. That seems to be a
big
> advantage of .net
>
> CO-process appears to be based on multiple processes for everything.
Is
> communication based on sockets or some other network mechanism so the
> processes are host-independent? That'd be interesting and flexible,
but too
> heavyweight for many of the things you'd want to use .net for.


Hi,

  1) the solution for MqSeries has only 20 KB wich isn't heavyweight.
  2) One CO-Process is used to manage one "task" ( DB, Communication
     GUI-Interface, Appl-Server, ...) there is no need to write
     one task in more than one language, the benefit is that you
     can choose the right language for the task, and the clear
     and easy interface between the tasks


mfg

  aotto :)



Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From tim.one at home.com  Thu Jan  4 23:04:08 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 23:04:08 -0500
Subject: question about grouping in RE
In-Reply-To: <uRa56.100679$4Z5.1575263@nntp0.chicago.il.ameritech.net>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCOENDIGAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Shen Wang]
> Currently in RE (A)|(B)|(C) create 3 groups, I wonder if there is a
> way to make it generate only 1 group.

Sure:

    (A|B|C)

It only creates groups where *you* put in parentheses!  Since the precedence
of "|" is very low, you usually don't need parentheses just to alter
precedence between "|" branches.  If you do need parentheses to alter
precedence, but do not want to create a group, use the non-grouping
parentheses construct (?:pattern).  For example,

    ((?:A)|(?:B)|(?:C))

matches the same strings but creates only one group.

> Which is more meaningful in my opinion.

As above, you can have it either way, so we don't have to decide whose
opinion is better <wink>.

> But things are different for named group, in pattern like
> (?P<name1>(sub1)(sub2))|(?P<name2>(pat1)), I did want (sub1) and
> (pat1) refer to group 2, (sub2) refer to group 3, but I don't want
> group 'name1' and 'name2' all refer to group 1, because then I
> have no way to tell which part matchs. maybe we can change named
> group's number to negative?
>
> That's all. I don't know if any guru can patch RE to add new flag
> like "merge group name".

Heh -- sorry, but I have no idea what you just said.  If it turns out that
nobody else does either, it might be helpful to post a specific, concrete,
executable example, spelling out exactly what you're trying to accomplish.

Note that there's an undocumented (because still experimental -- it may go
away) feature in Python 2.0's new re implementation:

>>> import re
>>> m = re.search("(A)|(B)|(C)", "abcABC")
>>> m.lastindex
1
>>> m = re.search("(A)|(B)|(C)", "abcCBA")
>>> m.lastindex
3
>>>

That is, a match object has a new attribute "lastindex" that gives the
number of the "last group" that matched (but m.lastindex is None if no group
matched).  There's also a "lastgroup" attribute that gets created if the
last group that matched was a named group.  That may or may not be along the
lines of what you're looking for.  Fredrik is experimenting with this
because, when writing a regexp-based scanner in Python, you need to which
group matched (is the next token an integer?  a string?  an xyz?), and
that's clumsy and slow without something like lastindex/lastgroup.  There's
also an undocumented Scanner class using this feature in 2.0's sre.py, if
that interests you.

simple-regexps-for-simple-tasks-makes-for-a-simple-life-ly y'rs  - tim




From boud at rempt.xs4all.nl  Wed Jan 24 14:14:12 2001
From: boud at rempt.xs4all.nl (Boudewijn Rempt)
Date: 24 Jan 2001 19:14:12 GMT
Subject: Blackadder - any opinions?
References: <94c6cu$hl2$1@bob.news.rcn.net> <3a6ae6c7$0$37175$1a0eedbc@dreader2.news.xs4all.nl> <JgHa6.75389$xW4.580766@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
Message-ID: <94n9i4$3dq$1@news1.xs4all.nl>

Neil Hodgson <neilh at scintilla.org> wrote:
> Boudewijn Rempt:
>> Anyway, the core components of Blackadder are good - Qt, Qt
>> Architect, PyQt, Scintilla.

>    ! How do you know its Scintilla? When the announcement appeared, I looked
> at the site and the screenshot
> http://www.thekompany.com/products/blackadder/_img/BAEditor.png
>    and while the main text part looks a lot like Scintilla, the fold marks
> are moved to the right of their margin and hit the edge which looks bad.
> Also there are unfixed damaged pixels to the left of the editor and at the
> top of the margins.

>From a discussion on the PyKDE mailing list. Of course, Scintilla is
what most people grab when they are out to make a Python IDE - witness
Wing IDE. As for the artefacts - the screenshot is from a pre-beta
version, so I am confident they won't appear in the release version.

-- 

Boudewijn Rempt  | http://www.valdyas.org


From katz at Glue.umd.edu  Fri Jan 19 23:53:04 2001
From: katz at Glue.umd.edu (Roy Katz)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 23:53:04 -0500
Subject: A bug in commands.getstatus?
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0101192348200.9964-100000@z.glue.umd.edu>

Recently I noticed that commands.getstatus() does not accept any
parameters I give it -- even when its sister functions getstatusoutput() 
and getoutput() are happy:


23:48:15 [foxglove at foxglove foxglove]$ py
Python 2.0 (#1, Oct 16 2000, 18:10:03) 
[GCC 2.95.2 19991024 (release)] on linux2
Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.

>>> import commands
>>> commands.getstatus('ls')

 'ls: ls: No such file or directory'

>>> commands.getstatusoutput('ls .')
(0, '')

>>> commands.getoutput('ls .')
''


what is going on here??



Roey



From menno at phreaker.net  Wed Jan 10 00:22:16 2001
From: menno at phreaker.net (DamageCase)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 06:22:16 +0100
Subject: DTML/Zope AND Flash
Message-ID: <93i5su$kfs$1@news1.xs4all.nl>

Hello all, I have a question regarding the use of flash on a zope server !
I hope someone can help me out here !

I'm trying to load a simple .txt file into flash, which isn't the problem of
course, the problem I have is that I want to make the .txt variable using
dtml that get's is content from a MySQL database. Simply putting dtml-var's
in the .txt file does not work ( how surprising =P )  but Flash does not
want to read from other format's than txt, so a dtml-document does not work
either.
Does anybody have an solution for this problem ?

friendly regards, Menno






From jafo-pythonlist at tummy.com  Sun Jan 21 01:30:34 2001
From: jafo-pythonlist at tummy.com (Sean Reifschneider)
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 23:30:34 -0700
Subject: Tweaking for New Co-lo
In-Reply-To: <LOBBJMHOIFOLFIPFANHJOEBGCMAA.beno@TheWebsons.com>; from beno@TheWebsons.com on Sat, Jan 20, 2001 at 09:43:38AM -0800
References: <LOBBJMHOIFOLFIPFANHJOEBGCMAA.beno@TheWebsons.com>
Message-ID: <20010120233034.A20336@tummy.com>

On Sat, Jan 20, 2001 at 09:43:38AM -0800, Ben Ocean wrote:
>I just moved my server. What a joy. Now my python install (on RedHat 6.2) is
>broken. Do I need to rebuild from scratch or is there an easy fix?

There have been some problems with the Pythons on RedHat.  I don't know
if 6.2 was impacted, but I think so.  If you aren't seeing the problem
with "anydbm" as described on the http://www.tummy.com/radiuscontext/
errata page, then you'd better post more information.  Otherwise,
follow the instructions there and you should be set.

Sean
-- 
 I think you are blind to the fact that the hand you hold
 is the hand that holds you down.  -- Everclear
Sean Reifschneider, Inimitably Superfluous <jafo at tummy.com>
tummy.com - Linux Consulting since 1995. Qmail, KRUD, Firewalls, Python



From erno-news at erno.iki.fi  Sun Jan 21 09:50:59 2001
From: erno-news at erno.iki.fi (Erno Kuusela)
Date: 21 Jan 2001 16:50:59 +0200
Subject: python-mode & emacs settings (was: Re: Tabbing/Spaces & python-mode)
References: <mailman.980018603.30482.python-list@python.org> <ku7l3qatuc.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi> <mailman.980032109.7884.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <kuk87p9cx8.fsf_-_@lasipalatsi.fi>

In article <mailman.980032109.7884.python-list at python.org>, barry at digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw) writes:

| If you're in the indentation, just use M-m (ESC m) to get you to the
| first non-whitespace character and C-a to get you to the beginning of
| the line.

thanks! i actually had found that eariler, but i forgot to start
using it because M-m is a somewhat awkward key combination. but
now i've rebound it.

anyone want to share the python-related .emacs tweaks they are using?
here are some from mine:
(i have recycled my caps lock to work as a hyper key,
change modifier to taste)

  -- erno

(global-font-lock-mode 1)
(global-set-key [?\H-l] 'goto-line)
(global-set-key [\H-left] 'back-to-indentation)
(global-set-key [\H-right] 'end-of-line)

;; this is in global keymap so that i can open C-x C-f ~/bin/quick-hack
;; and hit H-M-p
(global-set-key [?\H-\M-p] 'py-template)

(add-hook 'python-mode-hook
          (lambda ()
            (define-key py-mode-map [?\H-d] 'py-module-doc)))

;; when you have something for reference in the other window
(global-set-key [C-next] 'scroll-other-window)
(global-set-key [C-prior] 'scroll-other-window-down)

(defun py-template ()
  "Insert a python program skeleton"
  (interactive)
  (insert
   "#!/usr/bin/env python\n"
   "# -*- mode: python; py-indent-offset: 4; indent-tabs-mode: f -*-\n"
   "import os, sys, string\n"
   "\n"
   "def main():\n"
   "    pass\n"
   "\n"
   "if __name__ == '__main__':\n"
   "    try:\n"
   "        main()\n"
   "    except KeyboardInterrupt:\n"
   "        sys.exit('%s: break' % os.path.basename(sys.argv[0]))\n")
  (python-mode))

(defun py-module-doc (module-name)
  "Open a netscape window showing the documentation for the requested module"
  (interactive "smodule name: ")
  (shell-command (format "gnome-moz-remote "
                         "'http://www.cwi.nl/www.python.org/doc/current/"
                         "lib/module-%s.html'"
                         module-name)))



From wware at world.std.com  Wed Jan 24 05:51:54 2001
From: wware at world.std.com (Will Ware)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 10:51:54 GMT
Subject: Random and whrandom
References: <94bj03$59v$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <3a6a3540.1976549@news.xo.com> <ei8q6t0ohuded1oiet6qe79e1eco529ote@4ax.com> <94jkh0011gg@news1.newsguy.com> <mailman.980296063.27447.python-list@python.org> <94m9bf$nge$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <G7ny6J.G66@world.std.com>

cpsoct at my-deja.com wrote:
> but to get back to my original question. I should import random and not
> whrandom?

Yup. Just import random.

> But then i notice that seed is in whrandom?

random import whrandom, so you don't have to.

> Hmmm. so i need to import both?

Nope, just import random.

> And why are there 3 seed values? In C, there was just one.

There are three separate C-style random number generators whose outputs
are summed (fmod one) to produce the output. The result is a much better
random number, in my experience. When using C's rand() function, I have
often found patterns cropping up in what I was doing, where I had hoped
that the use of a random number generator would prevent patterns from
appearing. The whole idea is that it will behave the way real random
numbers would behave. Python's random.random() comes much closer to this
than C's rand().

If you just import random and use it normally, you'll never directly
deal with the fact that there are three separate seeds.

> and, what then is rand? id that depreciated?

I don't remember about rand. I frequently use random.random() and
random.choice(). There are also a bunch of interesting functions in
random that pertain to random variables with various interesting
probability distributions. I probably know enough probability theory
to use these correctly, but an occasion to do so hasn't arisen yet.

-- 
import string,time,os;print string.join((lambda x:x[:10]+x[8:])(map(
lambda x:string.center("*"*(lambda x:((x<24) ### Seasons Greetings, Will Ware
*(x-3))+3)(x),24),range(1,28, 2))),"\n") ################ wware at world.std.com


From glenfant at equod.com.nospam  Tue Jan 30 13:53:15 2001
From: glenfant at equod.com.nospam (Gilles Lenfant)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 19:53:15 +0100
Subject: How do you lock your web app data?
References: <956uqd$6st$1@newsreaderg1.core.theplanet.net>
Message-ID: <957286$kde$1@reader1.imaginet.fr>

If you play with lot of small files and few users you can use "lock files"
with the same name as the file the user is supposed to modify.
This is not "pythonic" but a general algorythm that can be done in python or
whatever:

start cgi
if not exists "myfile.lock"
  touch "myfile.lock"
  # play with "myfile.txt"
  ...
  # end play with "myfile.txt"
  rm "myfile.lock"
else
  reply "resource in use, come back later" to the user (or anything else
relevant)
endif
end cgi

Of course, this will not be appropriate to big traffic and if the cgi script
crashes (beetween "# play..." and "# end play...") and leaves
"myfile.lock"... nobody will be capable of using your application.

In some months, your application complexity will perhaps grow such that
staying with cgi technology will lead to headaches for you and your server.

There are better "pythonic" solutions than cgi for playing with shared
complex objects and lots of users in a "safer" way. see Zope at www.zope.org
that offers an open source Python based applications server that's better
suited to complex Web based applications.

"Franz GEIGER" <fgeiger at datec.at> a ?crit dans le message news:
956uqd$6st$1 at newsreaderg1.core.theplanet.net...
>
> Hi all,
>
> I began to play around with cgi scripts and of course use Python for that.
> And man, it is a pleasure to do that with Python! It really is a snap.
After
> about a day I had written an Issue Tracker, where People can add software
> feature requests and bug reports. At this time I add functionality to edit
> and delete the entries - until now they only could have been added.
>
> So  an important issue enters the game: How do I lock others out, when one
> edits/writes records? Please get me right: This will not be a heavy load
app
> nor will it be to handle requests and reports from hundreds of people.
> Therefore and because I just settled out to explore cgi I decided to use
> text files and pickle files for maintaining data and state, which is very
> convenient.
>
> Of course I could take a database as backend but I wonder if there are
other
> possibilities to achieve that "serialization"? How do you do it? Do you
> always use a database? Is it worth the effort doing it without a database?
>
> The server is an NT box running IIS4. Python is of version 2.0
(AvtiveState
> distribution).
>
> Any hint is appreciated.
>
> Thanks in advance and best regards
> Franz GEIGER
>
>
>
>



From heiland at ncsa.uiuc.edu  Fri Jan  5 10:02:18 2001
From: heiland at ncsa.uiuc.edu (Randy Heiland)
Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 09:02:18 -0600
Subject: JPython install problem
Message-ID: <3A55E1F9.60E033EF@ncsa.uiuc.edu>

I've successfully installed and am using JPython-1.1 on my SGI/Unix box
and was trying to install it on
a Windows NT box.  I'm running JDK 1.3 there.  I do
  'java JPython11'
and step thru the installation GUI process, changing the default
installation dir to be d:\JPython-1.1.
However, after seeing 'Build JPython launch scripts', an Error panel
pops up with "Installation failed".
When I click on "OK", the GUI says "..installation complete.  Extracted
389 files into 32 dirs...etc"

Anyone else seen this?  Is there some folder that might contain more
info on the error that occured?

thanks,
--Randy



From phlip_cpp at my-deja.com  Mon Jan 22 19:33:43 2001
From: phlip_cpp at my-deja.com (Phlip)
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 16:33:43 -0800
Subject: PyGTK wrapper for diacanvas?
Message-ID: <2l4b6.132$wt4.93794@news.pacbell.net>

Pythons:

Diacanvas is the widget version of "dia", the Gnome Diagram Editor.

I'm currently wrapping it in PyGTK-style Python, so we can drive it from a 
high level language here.

If anyone has already done this, or wants to help do this, please tell me 
so we can synchronize efforts.

-- 
  Phlip                          phlip_cpp at my-deja.com
============ http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?PhlIp ============
  --  Whoever dies with the most features wins  --


From a0038417 at addcom.de  Tue Jan 23 03:11:30 2001
From: a0038417 at addcom.de (Konrad Koller)
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 08:11:30 GMT
Subject: Python 2.0 makes the current Megawidget PmwCounter (v.0.8.4) useless
Message-ID: <3a6d3b73.3713875@news.addcom.de>

Under Python 2.0 in all my programs the PmwCounter widget in its
integer (!) form fails when the value is changed with the arrow
buttons. Make a test with the demo Counter.py and you will realize how
the value fails to be changed. Under 1.5. everything was ok. Who can
cure the problem (perhaps G. McFarlane)?


From claird at starbase.neosoft.com  Wed Jan 17 09:45:52 2001
From: claird at starbase.neosoft.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: 17 Jan 2001 08:45:52 -0600
Subject: Command language definition
References: <3A6542EC.99ED1149@intes.de> <20010117082100.A21854@yetix.sz-sb.de> <mailman.979718299.22940.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9AB314EB1750CDED.8E601D433980376B.010B6045AEFBB1BE@lp.airnews.net>

In article <mailman.979718299.22940.python-list at python.org>,
Rolf FISCHER  <fischer at intes.de> wrote:
>On Wed, 17 Jan 2001, Andreas Jung wrote:
>> On Wed, Jan 17, 2001 at 07:59:56AM +0100, Rolf Fischer wrote:
>> > Or is there a combination with another tool that you would recommend ?
>> 
>> hm...please be a bit more detailed...
>> 
>> Andreas
>
>Thanks for the reply
>
>if you want to build a grammar, the basic problem is a syntax definition and
>the check of its validity
>i.e
>
>command:=   keyword [parameter = value]
>
>To setup a command with parameters and values requires a syntax analysis.
>My first (and very raw) impression on python was, that the tool has excellent
>capabilites in easy programming, but I didn't see anything the like to check a
>syntax or to define one. This is why I asked for additional tools.
			.
			.
			.
I think you're dealing with very important matters,
but I'm a bit lost.  Is this true:
  You're part of a team that has developed
  a GUIfied application.  You have respon-
  sibility for testing the application.
You're now saying that, if the application had a
command language, that you could exploit that to
automate testing.  Do I have all that right?

If so, my reaction is that, well, yes, that's one
approach.  The impression I get from your descrip-
tion is that "retrofitting" a command language might
be a larger task than you realize.  While I rate my-
self one of the world's most passionate advocates
of testing instrumentation (in software), I'd want
to have a *very* clear idea of what's involved
before I'd recommend dismembering an existing appli-
cation in order to rework it for a new command
language. 

The ideal situation is that testability is designed
into an application from the beginning.  Are you at
a stage in your development process where your team
will afford you that luxury?

The canonical question people ask is for a black-box
GUI tester--something that deals purely with screen
events.  I've dismissed essentially all those for
years as more trouble than they're worth.  I've re-
cently become quite enthusiastic, though, about
Android <URL: http://www.smith-house.org/open.html >.
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at NeoSoft.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://starbase.neosoft.com/~claird/home.html


From tim.one at home.com  Fri Jan 26 01:37:27 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 01:37:27 -0500
Subject: random.py gives wrong results (+ a solution)
In-Reply-To: <t70ojbs573ou08@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCCEFLILAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Ivan Frohne]
> I'm convinced that Janne Sinkkonen is right: The beta distribution
> generator in module random.py does not return Beta-distributed random
> numbers.  Janne's suggested fix should work just fine.

Which is (for reference):

def betavariate(alpha, beta):
    y = gammavariate(alpha,1)
    if y==0: return 0.0
    else: return  y/(y+gammavariate(beta,1))

> Here's my guess on how and why this bug bit -- it won't be of interest
> to  most but this subject is so obscure sometimes that there needs to
> be a detailed analysis.
> ...

Which I'll skip, since it's immortalized already in c.l.py and the bug
report:

https://sourceforge.net/bugs/?func=detailbug&bug_id=130030&group_id=5470


> ...
> The corrected equation for a beta random variable, using Watkins'
> definition of the gamma density, is
>
>     brv(A, B) = grv(A, 1) / ( grv(A, 1) + grv(1/B, 1) ),
>
> which translates to
>
>     brv(A, B) = grv(A, 1) / (grv(A, 1) + grv(B, 1)
>
> using the more common gamma density definition (the one used in random.
> py).

Now that seems plain wrong, although I assume it's just typographical
confusions:

1. You don't really mean to generate two independent instances of grv(A, 1),
right?

2. The parens around the summand denominator have magically disappeared,
changing something of the form X/(X+Y) to (X/X)+Y.

> Many standard statistical references give this equation -- two are
> "Non-Uniform random Variate Generation," by Luc Devroye, Springer-Verlag,
> 1986, p. 432, and "Monte Carlo Concepts, Algorithms and Applications,"
> by George S. Fishman, Springer, 1996, p. 200.

So does Knuth, Vol 3 Ed 3 (in the X/(X+Y) form), although he's not careful
(as was Janne) to avoid division by 0.  So I'll check in Janne's code as-is.

Thank you for the analysis!  It was an enlightening help.




From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Mon Jan 22 05:39:50 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 11:39:50 +0100
Subject: Newbee!!BPL question! Printing to standard output
References: <3A6B4D04.14B661E2@magnet.fsu.edu> <94fnkp$sdc$1@news.online.de> <3A6B8C21.ADEAB05E@magnet.fsu.edu>
Message-ID: <94h2lm02hml@news1.newsguy.com>

"Khaled Khairy" <khairy at magnet.fsu.edu> wrote in message
news:3A6B8C21.ADEAB05E at magnet.fsu.edu...
    [snip]
> I'm using the Boost Python Library to use Python as an interface for a C++
> library. Boost does an excellent job.
> What I would like to be able to do is get a handle to the intepreter
> terminal inside my C++ code, and directly print from
> there, not through returning a string on an exported function.

In the bare C API, you have several choices -- I'm not quite
sure which ones are wrapped, and at what level, by Boost Python
(I have not done 'printing' from inside a BPL-written extension).

The simplest way, if the string you want to print is in your
std::string variable named Foo and it contains no quotes &c:

void printIt1(const std::string& Foo)
{
    std::string temp = std::string("print \"") + Foo + "\"";
    PyRun_SimpleString(temp.c_str());
}

More elaborate ways proceed by getting at the sys module,
obtaining its attribute stdout, and calling method 'write'
on said stdout (or slight variants on this).  Nothing too
terrible, mind you... for example, again with the C API:

void printIt2(const std::string& Foo)
{
    PyObject* pSys = PyImport_ImportModule("sys");
    PyObject* pStdout = PyObject_GetAttrString(pSys, "stdout");
    PyObject* pResult = PyObject_CallMethod(pStdout, "write",
        "%s", Foo.c_str());
    Py_DECREF(pResult);
    Py_DECREF(pStdout);
    Py_DECREF(pSys);
}

You can no doubt remove the explicit reference-decrements
here by making use of the smart pointers/references that BPL
gives you, but that's just a minor (if useful) convenience.

Also, obviously, you may want to do the import-module and
get-attribute only once, rather than for each 'print', by
saving pStdout (or the bound-method-reference pointer, if
you prefer) somewhere in your state; however, while a little
bit faster, that will give you problem adjusting your output
if the Python side ever sets something different for a while
as the value of sys.stdout -- your output would keep going
to the 'OLD' stdout (the one that was set when you did the
get-attribute initialization); I think that doing the three
calls each time may be simplest for most uses (and the little
overhead is probably not a biggie compared with the overhead
of formatting and I/O, anyway).

Lastly, it's also (almost) trivial to wrap this up as a C++
stream buffer if you want; but the added-value is small
unless you need to output polymorphically to "the Python
standard output" OR other C++ output streams.


Alex





From cpr at emsoftware.com  Thu Jan 18 10:33:26 2001
From: cpr at emsoftware.com (Chris Ryland)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 15:33:26 GMT
Subject: Literate programming in Python
References: <MIo96.76568$eB2.6160368@news.infostrada.it>
Message-ID: <9472c7$8u9$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

In article <MIo96.76568$eB2.6160368 at news.infostrada.it>,
  "Giuseppe Bilotta" <bilotta78 at hotpop.com> wrote:

> I'd like to know if there exist a "literate programming" language for
> Python (possibly using the same structure/conventions of
> WEB/CWEB, the first literate programming languages, developed by
> D.E.Knuth and Silvio Levy, resp. for Pascal and C/C++).

See <www.literateprogramming.com> for a lot of information on the
topic, including tools (most C/C++ oriented, but pointing to other
languages).

Also see <personalpages.tds.net/~edream/front.html> for Leo, a literate
editor with Python support.
--
Chris Ryland * Em Software, Inc. * www.emsoftware.com


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From root at rainerdeyke.com  Wed Jan 10 23:36:24 2001
From: root at rainerdeyke.com (Rainer Deyke)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 04:36:24 GMT
Subject: boolean xor
References: <93ace8$nmo$1@panix3.panix.com> <93i7ne$5dk$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <93i9ff$q4l$1@slb0.atl.mindspring.net> <pI576.21295$ge4.9910815@news2.rdc2.tx.home.com> <93iuj9$jta$1@slb3.atl.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <cLa76.23299$ge4.10502177@news2.rdc2.tx.home.com>

"Andrew Dalke" <dalke at acm.org> wrote in message
news:93iuj9$jta$1 at slb3.atl.mindspring.net...
>
> Rainer Deyke wrote:
> >You could, however, remove a redundant 'not' from the original:
> >
> >def xor(a, b): return (a or b) and not (a and b)
>
> That may find the truthness of a and b twice, which might
> not give the expected behaviour.  Eg, if __nonzero__ takes
> time to compute (as with a proxy to a remote object) then
> the overhead may be twice as long.

If you want to play that way, the previous version is also flawed:

not ( (a and b) or (not (a or b)) )

In any case except where both 'a' and 'b' are true, the truth value of 'a'
is calculated twice.


--
Rainer Deyke (root at rainerdeyke.com)
Shareware computer games           -           http://rainerdeyke.com
"In ihren Reihen zu stehen heisst unter Feinden zu kaempfen" - Abigor




From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Thu Jan 25 07:35:18 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 13:35:18 +0100
Subject: Markov.py
References: <94eavq$5cl$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <94eulk$dduhj$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de> <3A6B7716.68A62115@home.com> <94h5he$9kl$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <94ides$6t2$1@animus.fel.iae.nl> <94jrt701eg4@news1.newsguy.com> <94l59e$4kc$1@animus.fel.iae.nl> <94mbet01ruh@news2.newsguy.com> <94n920$e66$1@animus.fel.iae.nl>
Message-ID: <94p6i40244j@news2.newsguy.com>

"Carel Fellinger" <cfelling at iae.nl> wrote in message
news:94n920$e66$1 at animus.fel.iae.nl...
    [snip]
> > Yep, I remember the debates!-)  The little fact that our
> > approach *WORKED* (allowing a 20,000-word vocabulary real
> > time recognizer to be first built in 1984), of course,
>
> Impressive! (I take it it did single words only, and I guess it needed
> training to get a good profil of the speaker, but still impressive)

Real-time speech but not continuous one (short-as-you-wish,
but mandatory, pause between words -- we called it 'dictation'
speech), and 15-minutes training needed per speaker; took a
dedicated IBM mainframe with a few CPU's and 'vector features',
or equivalent (3rd party vector-processing units for the same
class of mainframe).  It _was_ 1985 before 'we' (actually
some brilliant HW guys in IBM Research) turned out special-
purpose boards that you could stuff inside an IBM PC/AT to
make it perform the same task (maybe even early '86 before
the latter box was reliable enough to announce & demo) --
what we contributed to the miniaturization effort was a
study of numeric sensitivity, to turn the computations into
fixed-point ones at various minimal-sufficient precisions
along the algorithms' paths.


> But if I remember correctly, the use of frequency analysis to
> recognize spoken words was not what was criticised at all. We (the

You don't (remember correctly) -- being the target of such
criticisms sharpens one's memories:-).  I remember silencing
a critic once in public debate about this -- he claimed it's
not truly feasible to 'take dictation' without any understanding
whatsoever, and I gave the counterexample of my father and his
secretary... he, a specialist physician, all the time dictating
extremely specialized and obscure texts -- she, an efficient
dactilographist, not caring AT ALL about understanding of what
she was writing down, as long as she knew exactly how to SPELL
each of the totally-meaningless-to-her words and names.  In fact,
that's why, she explained, she could not do *stenography* for
his reports -- THAT does require a modicum of understanding
of WHAT is being written about, it seems -- rather, she typed
right at the typewriter as he dictated (the way he DID dictate
would have been perfectly suitable for our recognizer, save
for occasional [and inadvertent] lack-of-pause between two
adjacent words... which occasionally made HER go wrong, too!).

> members of the Rosetta team) felt a bit awkward by the claim that
> stochastic models were better suited to attach meaning to (written)
> natural language and even to weed ambigueties.  Grammars, on the other
> hand, are soo crisp and clear, hence easy to understand:) Probably had

Right -- and therefore insufficient to model what human beings
actually DO with language:-).

> to do with some defect in our minds; I for one never grogged Perl, yet
> with Python it was love at first sight.

Same here, though I did use Perl a lot before finally meeting
Python (lack of perceived alternatives...).


Alex





From cfelling at iae.nl  Mon Jan 22 21:13:38 2001
From: cfelling at iae.nl (Carel Fellinger)
Date: 23 Jan 2001 03:13:38 +0100
Subject: How do I know all thrown exceptions of a function?
References: <g3lb49.73s.ln@127.0.0.1> <94d93h$55d$1@troll.powertech.no> <mailman.980059223.25947.python-list@python.org> <Qeya6.7932$AH6.1260668@newsc.telia.net> <3A6B24F0.EA164698@gte.net> <94icr2$6kv$1@animus.fel.iae.nl> <3A6CDBDA.C3120F98@gte.net>
Message-ID: <94ipci$afo$1@animus.fel.iae.nl>

Steve Williams <sandj.williams at gte.net> wrote:
...
> Ah yes, but ftplib (and the example in the code and in Beazley) does the
> following:

...example snipped


My point was that instead of

>    from somelib import somefunc

you should use

     import somelib

then the following would work

>    try:
>         somelib.somefunc()
>    except somelib.myError:
>         'do something about it'



-- 
groetjes, carel


From katz at Glue.umd.edu  Fri Jan 26 23:36:43 2001
From: katz at Glue.umd.edu (Roy Katz)
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 23:36:43 -0500
Subject: . Python 2.1 function attributes
In-Reply-To: <94tbm0$12$1@news.udel.edu>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0101260824430.1922-100000@y.glue.umd.edu> <94tbm0$12$1@news.udel.edu>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0101262335230.7677-100000@y.glue.umd.edu>

My question is this:

   what is the point of letting functions have attributes when
   the same role is fulfilled cleanly by classes which implement
   __call__()?

My previous long post showed an example. 


Roey


On Fri, 26 Jan 2001, Terry Reedy wrote:

> Since functions are and always (for at least five years) have been
> (Py)Objects and since they have always had attributes (like many other
> types of PyObjects), it is still not clear what you are asking, and hence
> the paucity of answers.
> 
> The new thing in 2.1 is to allow users to directly set as well as read
> user-defined function attributes.  This eliminates the need for certain
> kludgy workarounds that people have been resorting to.
> 
> Terry J. Reedy
> 
> 
> 
> 



From nospam at mega-nerd.com  Fri Jan 26 22:39:24 2001
From: nospam at mega-nerd.com (Erik de Castro Lopo)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 03:39:24 GMT
Subject: Tkinter : button size
References: <3A722DED.74B41DA1@mega-nerd.com> <aerc6.7548$Ch.1935320@newsrump.sjc.telocity.net>
Message-ID: <3A723FD9.5AA0CDB@mega-nerd.com>

dsavitsk wrote:
> 
> > Is there any neat way I can force all the buttons to be the same
> > size regardless of the number of characters in the label?
> 
> self.cmdX = Button(frame, width=15, text='Text Here', borderwidth=3,
> relief=GROOVE, command=self.cmdXPress)

Perfect!!!!

I also really like what "relief=GROOVE" does to those buttons. Cool!!!

Thanks,
Erik
-- 
+----------------------------------------------------------+
  Erik de Castro Lopo  nospam at mega-nerd.com (Yes its valid)
+----------------------------------------------------------+
Complex problems have simple easy to understand wrong answers.


From alan.gauld at gssec.bt.co.uk  Wed Jan 10 09:33:15 2001
From: alan.gauld at gssec.bt.co.uk (Alan Gauld)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 14:33:15 +0000
Subject: How robust is Python ?
References: <9358nn$3c5$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, <9354f9$vbi$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, <LOBBJMHOIFOLFIPFANHJAEJFCHAA.zope@TheWebsons.com> <mailman.978716227.31692.python-list@python.org> <mailman.978721929.3640.python-list@python.org> <mailman.978748447.21713.python-list@python.org> <9365p9$s2k$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <3A5C72AB.BD43E182@gssec.bt.co.uk>

rturpin at my-deja.com wrote:
> In article <mailman.978748447.21713.python-list at python.org>,
>   Moshe Zadka <moshez at zadka.site.co.il> wrote:
> > .. C/C++ core dumps at the drop of a pointer. ..
> In theory, that's an application flaw, 

Mot in theory, in practice. Its just very easy to have these 
flaws in C++.

But most modern telephone switches are written in C++ and they 
run with "seven 9's" reliability, ie. 99.99999% uptime. 
It's an industry standard for public switches. 

Better than any computer you can by off the shelf even so called 
high availability boxes. But the software takes an age to
develop, 
needs good CASE tool support combined with formal methods. It's 
possible, just costly.

Python provides an easier and cheaper path to similar levels 
of reliability but bad programming will still be buggy
programming.
Just don't blame the language.

> software engineering produces C/C++ programs that
> very rarely dereference bad pointers. It's harder
> and more work than development with Python.

exactly so.

Alan G.
-- 
=================================================
This post represents the views of the author 
and does not necessarily accurately represent 
the views of BT.


From sandj.williams at gte.net  Thu Jan 11 12:33:24 2001
From: sandj.williams at gte.net (Steve Williams)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 17:33:24 GMT
Subject: ActivePython2.0 - Server Side objects for ASP problem
References: <93j0qi$7cv$1@bob.news.rcn.net> <tK876.2719$24.38513@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com> <93k6k5$1g7$1@bob.news.rcn.net> <9li76.10661$X3.66765@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com> <3A5DD081.F37275A@gte.net> <aDl76.778$mD5.9994@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <3A5DEFB2.D3E92632@gte.net>

Steve Holden wrote:

> "Steve Williams" <sandj.williams at gte.net> wrote in message
> news:3A5DD081.F37275A at gte.net...
> > Steve Holden wrote:
> >
> > > "Satheesh Babu" <vsbabu at erols.com> wrote in message
> > > news:93k6k5$1g7$1 at bob.news.rcn.net...
> > > [snip]
> >
> [snip]

> So I suspect that all your valid objections are objections to something I
> wasn't suggesting, and are not required. I could be wrong, though. Maybe I
> *was* suggesting that, or maybe that *is* required :-)

No, no.  You're right.  I didn't read the thread carefully.  As you might guess,
I've been obsessed with DCOM problems lately.

I'll be better once I take my meds.




From jdries at mail.com  Tue Jan 16 21:30:57 2001
From: jdries at mail.com (Jan Dries)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 03:30:57 +0100
Subject: Relational Databases and Python
References: <Pine.BSF.4.21.0101161838180.89570-100000@open-systems.net>
Message-ID: <3A6503E1.2818971@mail.com>


Chris Watson wrote:
> 
> > My reading of the PostgreSQL web site leads me to believe you'll be
> > "limited" to UNIX platforms, I can't remember far enough back in the thread
> > to determine whether this matters or not.
> 
>         Limited in platforms? AFAIK Postgresql runs on more unix platforms
> than any other DB out there.

Does your statement in any way change the "limited to UNIX" claim in the
original post?

Jan



From jasonic at nomadicsltd.com  Wed Jan 17 12:34:44 2001
From: jasonic at nomadicsltd.com (Jason Cunliffe)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 12:34:44 -0500
Subject: Best way to learn Python ?
References: <aa8a6t895h8l3k2q7nmhd25oh6m7haulj9@4ax.com> <943sn302g4p@news2.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <t6blmu8co8aifd@corp.supernews.com>

Alex Martelli <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:943sn302g4p at news2.newsguy.com...
> "J5" <johnny5s_alive at hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:aa8a6t895h8l3k2q7nmhd25oh6m7haulj9 at 4ax.com...
> > No schools teach it, so what books do you recommend ?
>
> O'Reilly's "Learning Python", by Lutz and Ascher, for a slow,
> patient, very thorough introduction to the basics; or, if you
> prefer faster pace and more breadth (but a bit less depth),
> Manning's "Quick Python Book", by Harms and McDonald.

Yes. I agree.
Add to this list the bright new one:

'Core Python Programming' by Wesley Chun

Paperback - 500 pages 1st edition (December 15, 2000)
Prentice Hall; ISBN: 0130260363
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0130260363/o/qid=979751098/sr=8-1/ref
=aps_sr_b_1_1/107-8994515-3258904

Very well written. It is the clearest, friendliest book I have come across
yet for explaining Python, and putting it in a wider context. It does not
presume a large amount of other experience. It may be too slow for more
advanced people, but it does goe into some important Python topics carefully
and in depth. Unlike too many beginner books, it never condescends or
tortures the reader with childish hide-and-seek prose games. The author
helped to develop 'Yahoo!Mail' and 'Yahoo!People Search' using Python. Not
too many in-depth realworld examples in the book [hopefully he will do a
followup volume], it sticks to gaining a solid grasp of Python syntax and
structure. But there is some good stuff on regulra espressions, network
Sockets

Plus+ if you are working on Win32, check out:

'Python Programming on Win32' by Mark hammond and Andy Robinson
Paperback - 652 pages 1 Ed edition (January 2000)
O'Reilly & Associates; ISBN: 1565926218
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1565926218/qid%3D979752107/107-899451
5-3258904

Packed with useful practical stuff. Very well written. Good examples.
Essential for any Python + COM work. One of the authors [Mark Hammond] wrote
the PythonWin extensions, so he really knows what he is talking about. As a
Python beginner's book it dives in deep very quickly, and althouth the intro
to Python is good, it does assume prior programming experience. Lots of
great stuff on how to connect Python with MSExcel and plenty of real-world
operating sytem interfacing examples.

good luck!
- Jason




From richard_chamberlainREMOVE at ntlworld.com  Tue Jan 16 02:24:13 2001
From: richard_chamberlainREMOVE at ntlworld.com (Richard Chamberlain)
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 07:24:13 -0000
Subject: stackless python for palm
Message-ID: <eBS86.122$UC4.842@news6-win.server.ntlworld.com>

Hi,

I believe there was a project at one point for stackless for palm. Any news
on progress?

Thanks,

Richard




From tanzer at swing.co.at  Tue Jan 23 03:45:01 2001
From: tanzer at swing.co.at (Christian Tanzer)
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 09:45:01 +0100
Subject: wxPython 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 22 Jan 2001 11:32:56 EST."
             <3A6C60B8.72249CDB@mitre.org> 
Message-ID: <m14Kz4X-000wcBC@swing.co.at>

Mike Brenner <mikeb at mitre.org> wrote :

> The second thing that can be gotten to work, but you must develop on
> windows and port to Linux (not the other way around) is the sizing of
> the intermediate levels of objects. Like most GUIs, wxPython requires
> many levels of objects (windows, frames, etc., etc.). If you develop the
> GUI on Linux, the sizing/resizing/automatic sizing always works on Linux
> but fails when moved to Windows. Windows requires a lot more sizing
> calls at a lot more intermediate levels to make it work correctly,
> otherwise everything gets jumbled up on top of each other. 
(snip)
> We were not able to get TK-inter or GTK to convert so it worked on both
> Linux and WIndows with the same source code in the same amount of time,
> so we stopped working on them.

I don't know any details about wxPython, but both TK and GTK provide
geometry managers solving exactly the problem you are talking about.

I use Linux for devleopment and apart from a few glitches, 
TK GUI's work exactly alike under Linux and Windows. There are very
few platform dependencies in my GUI code.

-- 
Christian Tanzer                                         tanzer at swing.co.at
Glasauergasse 32                                       Tel: +43 1 876 62 36
A-1130 Vienna, Austria                                 Fax: +43 1 877 66 92




From boud at rempt.xs4all.nl  Sat Jan  6 04:50:44 2001
From: boud at rempt.xs4all.nl (Boudewijn Rempt)
Date: 6 Jan 2001 09:50:44 GMT
Subject: Question about IDLE
References: <9364b7$qse$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <H%w56.180$Zf.836@newsfeed.slurp.net> <936db1$1f0$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <936ppk$og9$1@news1.xs4all.nl>

one61803 at my-deja.com wrote:
> Yes, I've tried setting idle.font, idle.fontFamily, idle.fontList, etc. Also,
> I've looked through the source code for all occurences of the word "font" and
> have not identified any sections that actually specify a font for idle (other
> than the one for windows).


For the Idle that comes with Python 2.0, there's a text file in the
source directory, config-unix.txt that you can change. You can also 
edit a .idle file in your home directory (though why that shouldn't
be called .idlerc like the rest of them I don't know). Look in
IdleConf.py to see how it's done.

-- 

Boudewijn Rempt  | http://www.valdyas.org


From tomega at earthlink.net  Thu Jan 25 15:27:27 2001
From: tomega at earthlink.net (Simon Kesenci)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 20:27:27 GMT
Subject: Library paths
References: <94pm5p$mhi$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <P_%b6.9935$KJ3.590357@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>

Add the path into /etc/ld.so.conf, then run ldconfig as root.

--S.

sp00fD wrote:

> I build Python2.0, and added in tk support.  Now when I try to use
> python, I get:
> ld.so.1: python: fatal: libtk8.3.so: open failed: No such file or
> directory
> 
> I can set my LD_LIBRARY_PATH to point to the directory which holds the
> tk library and everything is cool.  The question is, is there any way
> to build python so that I don't have to add a LD_LIBRARY_PATH entry to
> all the users?
> 
> 
> Sent via Deja.com
> http://www.deja.com/

-- 
Coito ergo cum.



From dalke at acm.org  Wed Jan 10 19:28:04 2001
From: dalke at acm.org (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 17:28:04 -0700
Subject: boolean xor
References: <93ace8$nmo$1@panix3.panix.com> <93i7ne$5dk$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <93i9ff$q4l$1@slb0.atl.mindspring.net> <pI576.21295$ge4.9910815@news2.rdc2.tx.home.com>
Message-ID: <93iuj9$jta$1@slb3.atl.mindspring.net>

Rainer Deyke wrote:
>You could, however, remove a redundant 'not' from the original:
>
>def xor(a, b): return (a or b) and not (a and b)

That may find the truthness of a and b twice, which might
not give the expected behaviour.  Eg, if __nonzero__ takes
time to compute (as with a proxy to a remote object) then
the overhead may be twice as long.

                    Andrew
                    dalke at acm.org






From NoSpam at NoSpam.com  Fri Jan 19 12:16:28 2001
From: NoSpam at NoSpam.com (Tom)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 17:16:28 GMT
Subject: Jython-2.0 released
References: <mailman.979852051.13723.python-list@python.org> <m8P96.185124$59.49360823@news3.rdc1.on.home.com> <1nR96.8075$Mo6.76257@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <MD_96.188628$59.50083914@news3.rdc1.on.home.com>

"Steve Holden" <sholden at holdenweb.com> wrote in message
news:1nR96.8075$Mo6.76257 at e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com...
> [Jython announcement]
>
> "Tom" <nospam at nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:m8P96.185124$59.49360823 at news3.rdc1.on.home.com...
> > I thought that what existed before was a python enterpreter written in
> Java.
> > But this sounds like a Python compiler.  Is this something new?
> >
> > Tom.
> >
> No. JPython was similar to standard (C)Python in that it compiled to
> intermediate byte codes and interpreted them. The smart part was compiling
> to *Java* bytecodes instead of Python bytecodes. Jython programs can be
run
> by any Java Virtual Machine implementation, and therefore get pretty
amazing
> integration with Java classes. It is possible to have Python classes
> subclassing Java classes, and vice versa.

Looking at this from the point of reference of the Java platform, this was
not, but is now a compiler.

It sounds really good, but it also sounds like a lot of work was involved.

Tom.

> Jython 2.0 is an implementation of JPython which
>
>   a)    Avoids impinging on CNRI's rights to the name JPython, and
>
>   b)    Brings the Python language synatx into line with Python 2.0
>
> although-2.1-is-just-around-the-corner-ly y'rs  - steve
>




From Dan.Rolander at marriott.com  Fri Jan 26 08:52:54 2001
From: Dan.Rolander at marriott.com (Rolander, Dan)
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 08:52:54 -0500
Subject: Why isn't crypt.py in Win32 Python distribution?
Message-ID: <6176E3D8E36FD111B58900805FA7E0F80CCF6337@mcnc-mdm1-ex01>

Thanks Michael. I had already found that and it is perfect!

Dan

-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Hudson [mailto:mwh21 at cam.ac.uk]
Sent: Friday, January 26, 2001 8:20 AM
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: Re: Why isn't crypt.py in Win32 Python distribution?


"Rolander, Dan" <Dan.Rolander at marriott.com> writes:

> Just curious. Why isn't crypt.py included in the standard python
> distribution for Windows? I needed the crypt() function and finally found
> fcrypt.py which was very helpful, but it seems it should be standard in
> Windows just like in the Unix distribution.

Try:

http://www.vex.net/parnassus/apyllo.py?i=54474698

(I haven't, apart from checking the link works).

Cheers,
M.

-- 
  > Why are we talking about bricks and concrete in a lisp newsgroup?
  After long experiment it was found preferable to talking about why
  Lisp is slower than C++...
                        -- Duane Rettig & Tim Bradshaw, comp.lang.lisp
-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Thu Jan  4 06:07:39 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 12:07:39 +0100
Subject: A single, general looping construct? (was: why no "do : until"?)
References: <92jj3j$ff7$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <92m9pm$d19$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <B3z36.122$9s1.18804@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com> <3A4EC5B1.8912E571@engcorp.com> <x8G36.156$9s1.31209@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com> <92qc21$538$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <0O7zTzsxerl5-pn2-SISYKtwXTOmR@bill>
Message-ID: <931lji02ik1@news2.newsguy.com>

"William Sonna" <wlsonna at attglobal.net> wrote in message
news:0O7zTzsxerl5-pn2-SISYKtwXTOmR at bill...
    [snip]
> Object Rexx's implementation of the generalized do is the best I've
> seen (in a real language, that is).  Works like this:

Snipping: 5 different forms that _still_ don't cover the Knuth-identified
general case of "N-and-1/2-times" loops.  We clearly have a very
different idea of what the word "best" means.

*Entities are not to be multiplied needlessly* -- Occam's razor.  ONE
general loop form, plus one form for the very important case of loops
over a sequence, seems just right to me.


> while count < 100:   # zero or more iterations
    [snip]
> until count <=100:    # one or more iterations
    [snip]
> Which are all (with the exception of the ones that are identical or
> nearly identical) cleaner and even more Pythonic than Python.

We clearly also disagree on the adjectives 'clean' and 'Pythonic'.

Since when is it Pythonic to have many equivalent ways to express
one concept?  It's not Python that has both 'if' and 'unless', for
example -- it's Perl.  A language which has both while and until
for loops, but doesn't have both if and unless for non-loop tests,
is inconsistent; one which has one form in each case, and one which
systematically adopts multiple forms whenever feasible, are each
consistent, albeit with, clearly, VERY different underlying
philosophy.

"Do the simplest thing that can possibly work", "there should be
exactly one way to perform a task" -- that is one philosophy.  It
is Python.  The exactly-opposite philosophy, that of "the more
ways, the merrier", of exhuberant, post-modern richness, is Perl's.
How can you possibly call 'Pythonic' something which goes so
drastically against the grain of its basic tenets?

> Fortran had even simpler control structures than Python, and was a
> royal pain to use as a result.

Surely you're joking, Mr Sonna.  Have you ever USED Fortran?!  I
must have written and maintained many tens of thousands of lines in
it.  How can you POSSIBLY assert that the set of its control
structures is "simpler than Python's"?!  Simple GOTO, assigned
GOTO, computed GOTO, logical IF, arithmetic IF, the DO statement...
it's *brimming* with complexity!  (Let's not even get into
Fortran 77, which added even more).  Just the rules about what
kinds of GOTO's are acceptable across which kind of DO-statement
boundaries get longer to explain than the whole Python language!-)

Anyway, simplicity is not enough -- it's the simplest thing *that
can possibly work*.  A language with a truly simple set of control,
well, 'structures', was Snobol -- the single concept of 'success
and failure' (with backtracking), and conditional jumps controlled
by success and failure.  The simplicity of conditional jumps as
the only control-structure doesn't work well with the human mind's
limitations in keeping track of disparate things -- so the need to
wrap up those jumps into actual structures is well accepted today
as a working need.  (The success/failure concept, and backtracking
to go with it, are far from being proven failures -- Icon took
them from Snobol, wrapped them into actual structures, and was [is]
a very interesting language as a result; unfortunately, the set
of structures chosen emerged as far from simple -- just explaining
the difference between 'while' and 'every' to an Icon beginner is
a headache).

The need for structure is not under discussion: rather, the basic
guideline on how to pick the structures.  Some languages bask in
'being very expressive' by making you choose among umpteen ways
to express the same thing, a la Cobol's
    ADD CREAM TO ESPRESSO GIVING CAPPUCCINO
vs
    LET CAPPUCCINO = CREAM + ESPRESSO

I'm quite happy for people who like such "expressive richness"
to pursue it in the many languages that follow this "the more the
merrier" philosophy -- Cobol and Perl being just two reasonably
consistent examples of such redundance.  It would just be nice
if, in turn, such people accepted the existence of languages
based on a *diametrically opposite* underlying philosophy of
*language simplicity* as a value -- and Python is a pretty good
example of such a language (not _perfect_, of course -- it IS
a human endeavour, and thus fallible, witness the 'print>>'
construct... but, quite reasonably close).

Having several different and perfectly equivalent ways of
expressing the same thing, just because you believe that
    bleep() unless bloop();
is 'prettier' ('more directly expressive', whatever) than
    if not bloop(): bleep()
is Perl's way.  If you want Perl, you know where to find it.
Just don't try to Perl-ize Python... ONE Perl is enough (some
would say, far more than enough).


> Although I enjoy using Python and am generally supportive of its
> minimalist philosophy, I still believe that the "while 1:  buried
> break" is a step backwards.

I have repeatedly agreed that it's not optimal syntax, but
*adding* special-case syntax forms is exactly the wrong way
to go.  ONE general syntax form for general loops:
    loop <condition1>:
        <suite1>
    while <condition2>:
        <suite2>
would probably be ideal (with the loop-over-sequence form,
since it's *such* a common case, singled out).  But it ain't
gonna happen -- the gain is just too small for the disruption.


> Many of the classic algorithms are best expressed with "do until" or
> "repeat until" and translating them into Python requires the
> introduction of a uniquely inelegant language idiom.

I just don't think they're that many!  Out of all loops one needs
I think about 2/3 are best expressed as loop-over-sequence; of
the remainder, about 2/3 are best expressed as single-test ones
with the test at the start; of the remainder, about 2/3 need
the general test-in-the-middle form for best expression.  Just
a few % are left in the special-case form where test-at-the-end
would prove best.  Of course, one general loop form would cover
them all equally, so the exact numbers don't matter much (save
for the enormous frequency of loop-on-sequence, which justifies
singling it out).

I *particularly* disagree that Python's syntax for the general
loop is "uniquely inelegant", whatever you're trying to convey
with that "uniquely".  The spelling of the second clause in
the general loop form as (indented) 'if not <condition2>: break'
is, at worst, slightly awkward -- the very popularity of 'break'
as a keyword in other languages (and the extremely similar
semantics of equivalent keywords in languages which have a
slightly different syntax, such as Perl's "last") helps to
mitigate the perception of this awkwardness.

What WOULD be truly inelegant, in my view, would be to have a
zillion ways to express special cases of one general form; at
least we have the general form itself, albeit not with optimal
syntax sugar to accompany it.


Alex






From moshez at zadka.site.co.il  Tue Jan 23 10:31:24 2001
From: moshez at zadka.site.co.il (Moshe Zadka)
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 17:31:24 +0200 (IST)
Subject: unpack sequence to tuple?
In-Reply-To: <94j6j1$3na$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
References: <94j6j1$3na$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <20010123153124.912A3A83E@darjeeling.zadka.site.co.il>

On Tue, 23 Jan 2001 05:58:58 GMT, noahspurrier at my-deja.com wrote:

> I want to easily read arguments in a sequence into separate variables.
> Basically, I want to use a Per1 idiom and do this:
> 
>     (cmd, host, user, key) = tuple(sys.argv)

No need for the tuple() or the () on the LHS:

cmd, host, user, key = sys.argv

Will work just ine.

If you want padding, just roll your own class:

class PaddedSeq:

	def __init__(self, s, n):
		self.s = s
		self.n = n

	def __len__(self):
		return self.n

	def __getitem__(self, i):
		if not (0<=i<n):
			raise IndexError
		try:
			return self.s[i]
		except IndexError:
			return None

cmd, host, something, something_else = PaddedSeq(sys.argv, 4)
	
-- 
Moshe Zadka <sig at zadka.site.co.il>
This is a signature anti-virus. 
Please stop the spread of signature viruses!
Fingerprint: 4BD1 7705 EEC0 260A 7F21  4817 C7FC A636 46D0 1BD6



From dsavitsk at e-coli.net  Fri Jan 26 22:26:45 2001
From: dsavitsk at e-coli.net (dsavitsk)
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 21:26:45 -0600
Subject: Tkinter : button size
References: <3A722DED.74B41DA1@mega-nerd.com>
Message-ID: <aerc6.7548$Ch.1935320@newsrump.sjc.telocity.net>

> Is there any neat way I can force all the buttons to be the same
> size regardless of the number of characters in the label?

self.cmdX = Button(frame, width=15, text='Text Here', borderwidth=3,
relief=GROOVE, command=self.cmdXPress)

ds




From n8gray at caltech.edu  Sun Jan 28 17:01:11 2001
From: n8gray at caltech.edu (Nathaniel Gray)
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 14:01:11 -0800
Subject: "in" for dicts (was: Python 2.1 function attributes)
References: <mailman.980637154.18503.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3A7496A7.253B7B67@caltech.edu>

Tim Peters wrote:
> 
> [Robin Becker]
> > yes I figured it was a bit funny, but nastier things are proposed and
> > aren't laughed off.
> 
> By whom?  They're *scowled* off by Guido, and that's all that counts in the
> end.
> 
> > -why don't we have $ and @ and \ operators-ly yrs-
> 
> Because so far, Guido hates them.  This is usually something you can count
> on for life.  But, e.g., in the past he disliked the idea of being able to
> say
> 
>     if key in dict:
> 
> instead of
> 
>     if dict.has_key(key):
> 
> because in the first form it's not 100% clear whether you're asking if key
> is in dict.keys() or dict.values() or dict.items().  In a once-per-decade
> reversal, he changed his mind about that last week, and Thomas Wouters
> graciously implemented it for 2.1.
> 
> It's a nice addition.  People will complain about it, and some bitterly, but
> so it goes.
> 
> when-people-disagree-not-everyone-gets-what-they-want-ly y'rs - tim

Funny, I was going to bring this up in this thread as a bad idea that
actually _is_ going into Python 2.1.  Let me then be the first to
complain about it (perhaps not bitterly).

If I was to ask you, "Tim, is 'larch' in Webster's dictionary?" would
you reply, "Yes, it's under 'L'", or would you reply, "No, there's no
'larch' section, just A,B,C,D,..."?

(I know you'd _actually_ reply "Look it up yourself!" ;^)

"in" just doesn't imply "has_key" for dictionaries.  

Note for those who don't read python-dev:  It seems this "feature" is
being added to facilitate the use of dictionaries as sets, so you can
say:
	if something in my_set:
		something.foobar()
and the like.

Couldn't we just have a collections module for Python that gave us a set
class (and all the other wonders that CS can produce) without mucking up
dictionaries?

-- 
_.~'^`~._.~'^`~._.~'^`~._.~'^`~._.~'^`~._
             Nathaniel Gray
   California Institute of Technology
     Computation and Neural Systems
_.~'^`~._.~'^`~._.~'^`~._.~'^`~._.~'^`~._


From tim.one at home.com  Sat Jan 27 18:12:12 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 18:12:12 -0500
Subject: . Python 2.1 function attributes
In-Reply-To: <dI9LLpAjMvc6EwCC@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCGELLILAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Robin Becker]
> yes I figured it was a bit funny, but nastier things are proposed and
> aren't laughed off.

By whom?  They're *scowled* off by Guido, and that's all that counts in the
end.

> -why don't we have $ and @ and \ operators-ly yrs-

Because so far, Guido hates them.  This is usually something you can count
on for life.  But, e.g., in the past he disliked the idea of being able to
say

    if key in dict:

instead of

    if dict.has_key(key):

because in the first form it's not 100% clear whether you're asking if key
is in dict.keys() or dict.values() or dict.items().  In a once-per-decade
reversal, he changed his mind about that last week, and Thomas Wouters
graciously implemented it for 2.1.

It's a nice addition.  People will complain about it, and some bitterly, but
so it goes.

when-people-disagree-not-everyone-gets-what-they-want-ly y'rs - tim




From jurgen.defurne at philips.com  Tue Jan 23 03:05:36 2001
From: jurgen.defurne at philips.com (jurgen.defurne at philips.com)
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 09:05:36 +0100
Subject: PSU uses emacs?
Message-ID: <0056900015343304000002L042*@MHS>

A few months ago I was very busy in CP/M  (I am coding a Z80 emulator),
and what I found about QDOS, was that Tim Paterson needed a 16-bit version
of CP/M, and that he (annoyed by Digital Research) decided to write his
own version. He started from CP/M, because he it was the only thong he knew
and he needed it fast.

Jurgen




grante at visi.com@SMTP at python.org on 22/01/2001 17:15:12
Sent by:	python-list-admin at python.org
To:	python-list at python.org@SMTP
cc:	 
Subject:	Re: PSU uses emacs?
Classification:	

In article <94cktu$d9c$1 at news.wrc.xerox.com>, Mark Jackson wrote:

>> This is speculation, based on the philosophical attitudes I have observed in
>> the two groups concerned. 8^} Who designed DOS anyway, Gary Kildall wasn't
>> it?
>
>That was CP/M, the 16-bit version of which was considered by IBM for
>their PC but not chosen.  MS-DOS was first licensed and then purchased
>by Microsoft from Seattle Computer Products.  It was written by Tim
>Paterson; heavy CP/M influence is evident, but it was far from a
>clone.  See Paul Ceruzzi, /A History of Modern Computing/.

Looked like a clone to me.  Virtually identical FCB structure,
BIOS entry point at 0x0005, same executable layout, etc. etc.

--
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  They don't hire
                                  at               PERSONAL PINHEADS,
                               visi.com            Mr. Toad!
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list





From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Thu Jan 11 17:05:38 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 23:05:38 +0100
Subject: using IE5 HTML DOM parser in python ?
References: <93kpp4$51p$1@reader1.imaginet.fr>
Message-ID: <93lb1h0227f@news1.newsguy.com>

"Gilles Lenfant" <glenfant at equod.com.nospam> wrote in message
news:93kpp4$51p$1 at reader1.imaginet.fr...
> Hi,
>
> Seems that it is not easy to parse ugly HTML (not "well formed" in XML
> wording) with the htmllib.
> I can do it easily with the IE5 included HTML DOM parser but it's in
> javascript and the script is to be included in the HTML.
> Did any of U succeed to use it from python and win32 extensions.

Maybe I don't understand your problem correctly.  The HTML DOM
that comes with IE5 is COM/Automation (accessible from JScript,
but definitely not just from there) -- easy to access from Python
(with 'makepy' support, ideally).  And I don't understand "the script
is to be included in the HTML" together with your need to parse the
HTML itself -- if you need to parse scripts in arbitrary scripting
languages, that IS indeed difficult (and HTML DOM has no help for
that)... but why would you need that?


Alex





From clickron at webtv.net  Wed Jan 24 17:15:06 2001
From: clickron at webtv.net (clickron at webtv.net)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 17:15:06 -0500 (EST)
Subject: beep again
References: <5251-3A6E5B71-16@storefull-163.iap.bryant.webtv.net>
Message-ID: <29605-3A6F53EA-11@storefull-168.iap.bryant.webtv.net>

I'm afraid all I get is the windows ding. No other changes.

Ron



From db3l at fitlinxx.com  Mon Jan 29 15:06:33 2001
From: db3l at fitlinxx.com (David Bolen)
Date: 29 Jan 2001 15:06:33 -0500
Subject: win32 DLL import problem
References: <Pine.SOL.4.30.0101291323540.148-100000@mimosa.csv.warwick.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <u1ytmm8c6.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com>

"John J. Lee" <phrxy at csv.warwick.ac.uk> writes:

> I compiled multipack on NT with cygwin, with the -mno-cygwin switch, which
> is supposed to link against the same C run-time library as the python 2.0
> distribution itself, msvcrt.dll (which is there on the win95 machine)
> rather than the cygwin crtdll, so presumably that can't be the problem,
> but since I don't know which file it can't find, it's hard to say!  It
> does import okay on NT.

Since you've got cygwin, try using the cygcheck utility to check out
the DLL dependencies to ensure it uses what you think.  There's also a
tool that comes with the NT resource kit (and perhaps independently if
you search around) called "depends" that's a native Win32 dependency
checker.

Python just uses a Win32 LoadLibrary (or LoadLibraryEx, I forget) to
load the module, and if an underlying DLL dependency can't be resolved,
that level of detail isn't exported back through the API, so it's not
really Python's fault for not displaying a more concrete error message.

--
-- David
-- 
/-----------------------------------------------------------------------\
 \               David Bolen            \   E-mail: db3l at fitlinxx.com  /
  |             FitLinxx, Inc.            \  Phone: (203) 708-5192    |
 /  860 Canal Street, Stamford, CT  06902   \  Fax: (203) 316-5150     \
\-----------------------------------------------------------------------/


From sandj.williams at gte.net  Tue Jan  9 13:35:54 2001
From: sandj.williams at gte.net (Steve Williams)
Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2001 18:35:54 GMT
Subject: mxTools (was Re: why no "do : until"?)
References: <L3JTK6ALVzW6Ewyk@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
	 <Pine.LNX.4.30.0101091923390.5204-100000@fep132.fep.ru> <mailman.979060455.13233.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3A5B5B55.198BC2C5@gte.net>

Robin Becker wrote:

> In message <Pine.LNX.4.30.0101091923390.5204-100000 at fep132.fep.ru>, Oleg
> Broytmann <phd at phd.pp.ru> writes
> >On Tue, 9 Jan 2001, Robin Becker wrote:
> >> >   Anyone here has any doubts that at least mxDateTime simply MUST be in
> >> >the Python core? :)
> >> >
> >>
> >> I'm a minimalist; let 100 flowers bloom, but the core should really only
> >> include the minimal required. Fancy dates are a bit too far for me. I
> >
> >   mxDateTime is not for fancy dates. Many SQL modules use it for returning
> >DATE/TIME fields from SQL. Think also about including it into Zope
> >(replacing current simple DateTime)...
> >
> >Oleg.
> ...
> SQL modules are even less essential in the core.
> --
> Robin Becker

Some of us think SQL modules are as important as file modules.  Maybe more
important.




From akuchlin at mems-exchange.org  Tue Jan 23 16:30:46 2001
From: akuchlin at mems-exchange.org (Andrew Kuchling)
Date: 23 Jan 2001 16:30:46 -0500
Subject: I mean *setup.py* ! ... (more questions)
References: <mailman.980277285.14781.python-list@python.org> <3d3dea3vuh.fsf@ute.cnri.reston.va.us> <94knmm$2vi$1@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU>
Message-ID: <3dzogi2by1.fsf@ute.cnri.reston.va.us>

sdm7g at minsky.med.Virginia.EDU (Steven D. Majewski) writes:
> If there are modules in this list, does setup.py detect that and not
> try to build them shared also ? 

Yes, it does; Martin von Loewis pointed this out before the alpha1 release.

I don't know what the case-insensitivity fix should be, though.  Can
you please report this on the SourceForge bug tracker so it doesn't
get forgotten?

--amk


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Thu Jan 25 07:41:55 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 13:41:55 +0100
Subject: The fundamentals...
References: <F8Jb6.30683$pp2.2619941@news3.cableinet.net> <20010124085846.A32572@glacier.fnational.com> <mailman.980382102.30218.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <94p6uh024lf@news2.newsguy.com>

"Neil Schemenauer" <nas at arctrix.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.980382102.30218.python-list at python.org...
> On Wed, Jan 24, 2001 at 08:58:46AM -0800, Neil Schemenauer wrote:
> > So you can do:
> >
> >     boo = string.replace(". ", "\n")
>
> That should be:
>
>       boo = string.replace(boo, ". ", "\n")

Or boo = boo.replace('. ', '\n')  [in Python 2, but surely
we're all upgraded by now, aren't we?-)]


Alex





From gregj at pobox.com  Sat Jan 27 23:03:06 2001
From: gregj at pobox.com (Greg Jorgensen)
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 04:03:06 GMT
Subject: Python vs Ruby
References: <94mdkd$222e$1@news.adamastor.ac.za> <p6qwvbjtr97.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de> <mailman.980510622.2558.python-list@python.org> <877l3h5a29.fsf@hoyogw.netlab.co.jp> <94voh3$5nm$1@snipp.uninett.no>
Message-ID: <9505lo$v21$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

In article <94voh3$5nm$1 at snipp.uninett.no>, "Magnus Lie Hetland"
<mlh at idi.ntnu.no> took Yukihiro Matsumoto to task for his comparison of
Fibonacci functions in Python and Ruby:

> > double?  Fibonacci is mostly based on function calls
>
> Not necessarily...
>
> (By the way, your function wasn't altogether correct...)

With all respect, yours is even worse. It doesn't generate a correct
Fibonacci sequence (your function gives 1,1,3,4,5,7,9,12,16,...). A
simpler (and correct) iterative Python function is:

----
def fib(n):
    a,b = 0,1
    while n > 0:
        a,b = b,a+b
        n = n-1
    return a
----

My version will correctly return 0 for fib(0); your function returns 1.
And I avoid the range() call.

I tested both versions with:

for i in range(10):
    print fib(i)

--
Greg Jorgensen
Portland, Oregon, USA
gregj at pobox.com


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From cjensen at bioeng.ucsd.edu  Wed Jan  3 16:12:21 2001
From: cjensen at bioeng.ucsd.edu (Curtis Jensen)
Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 13:12:21 -0800
Subject: Name Error
Message-ID: <3A5395B5.EBE77FA4@bioeng.ucsd.edu>

Below is a bit from my Python interpreter.  The "stored_data" variable
is a global list.  It should be seen from within the "send_data"
function.  However, I get a NameError here.  I ran it with pdb; pdb is
able to output the "stored_data" variable from within the "send_data"
function.  However, it still gives a NameError.  

"stored_data" works in all of my other functions except this one?  Any
ideas?

>>> pdb.run( 'main()' )
> <string>(0)?()
(Pdb) b send_data
Breakpoint 1 at cont_client.py:3078
(Pdb) r
> <string>(1)?()
(Pdb) c
CONTINUITY ver 5.00
Wed Jan  3 12:50:16 2001
CONTINUITY>> send
> cont_client.py(3078)send_data()
-> print stored_data[0]
(Pdb) p stored_data
[<Dimensions.Dimensions instance at 100f0f68>]
(Pdb) n
NameError: 'stored_data'
> cont_client.py(3078)send_data()
-> print stored_data[0]
(Pdb)

-- 
Curtis Jensen
cjensen at bioeng.ucsd.edu
http://www-bioeng.ucsd.edu/~cjensen/
FAX (425) 740-1451


From jp at NOSPAMdemonseed.net  Mon Jan 22 19:20:17 2001
From: jp at NOSPAMdemonseed.net (jason petrone)
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 00:20:17 +0000
Subject: IP Octet Patern Match
References: <3A6CBDC4.C5F292C9@tampabay.rr.com>
Message-ID: <1oii49.c4v.ln@demonseed.net>

Kevin Fiscus <kfiscus at tampabay.rr.com> wrote:

> I am extremely new to Python.  Can anyone help me to design a script
> that will find the IP addresses from email headers and write the entire
> line where they are found to another text file?

I do something similar to this to process my ipfilter logs.

-------------------------

import sys, re
lines = sys.stdin.readlines()
for line in lines:
  if re.search('\d{1,3}\.\d{1,3}\.\d{1,3}\.\d{1,3}', line): 
    print line[:len(line)-1]

-------------------------

I'm using 'print line[:len(line)-1]' instead of 'print line' in order to strip
off the trailing new line.  You might need -2 if it is dos formatted text.

Notice this doesn't handle IPV6 addresses.

-jason


From cpsoct at my-deja.com  Sat Jan 20 03:56:40 2001
From: cpsoct at my-deja.com (cpsoct at my-deja.com)
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 08:56:40 GMT
Subject: How to chop list n-elements at a time
Message-ID: <94bjs8$5nn$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

I've been at this a while and can't seem to get it to work. I am
wondering if others know how, have tried, or already have written a
func to package up list elements in sublists n at a time.

I was able to get something that worked for bunches of 1, or 2, but i
am wondering how to make the tool more general so that i could say:

x=[1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9]

bunch(x,1) --> [[1], [2], [3], [4], [5], [6], [7], [8], [9]]
bunch(x, 2) --> [[1,2], [3,4], [5,6], [7,8], [9, None]
bunch(x, 3) --> [[1,2,3], [4,5,6], [7,8,9]]
bunch(x, 4) --> [1,2,3,4], [5,6,7,8] [9, None, None, None]]


The algo. i was using for two at a time for example just tested for
even and odd. but i am not sure how to do generalize to create the
above.

cheers,
kevin parks
cpsoct at lycos.com





Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From nospam at wanted.com  Thu Jan 11 02:02:53 2001
From: nospam at wanted.com (huber)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 08:02:53 +0100
Subject: tk3000 on linux
Message-ID: <stqj39.kf4.ln@adsl.bapnt>

can you tell me how to install tkinter3000 on a linux box?
thanks
udo


From timr at probo.com  Tue Jan 23 01:23:57 2001
From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts)
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 22:23:57 -0800
Subject: Random and whrandom
References: <94bj03$59v$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <3a6a3540.1976549@news.xo.com>
Message-ID: <ei8q6t0ohuded1oiet6qe79e1eco529ote@4ax.com>

bogus at bogus.net wrote:

>The whrandom algorithm may not generate very good random numbers. I
>created a pair of dice objects and rolled them 10,000 times, there
>seems to be a bias against rolling the same number on both dice.

Umm, in the long term, there SHOULD be a 5-to-1 bias against rolling the
same number on both die.

whrandom is a linear congruential random number generator.  The properties
are well-understood; in the long term, each number in the sequence occurs
once before any number is repeated.  However, short sequences will not show
the same uniformity.
--
- Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
  Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.


From dsh8290 at rit.edu  Mon Jan 29 11:18:20 2001
From: dsh8290 at rit.edu (D-Man)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 11:18:20 -0500
Subject: Python vs Ruby
In-Reply-To: <20010126045052.A4684@glacier.fnational.com>; from nas@arctrix.com on Fri, Jan 26, 2001 at 04:50:52AM -0800
References: <94mdkd$222e$1@news.adamastor.ac.za> <p6qwvbjtr97.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de> <87puhbndn5.fsf@hoyogw.netlab.co.jp> <p6qpuhatejn.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de> <"from loewis"@informatik.hu-berlin.de> <20010126045052.A4684@glacier.fnational.com>
Message-ID: <20010129111820.C15924@harmony.cs.rit.edu>

On Fri, Jan 26, 2001 at 04:50:52AM -0800, Neil Schemenauer wrote:
| [Martin von Loewis on the Ruby GC]
| > So I shall find some time to study its weaknesses :-)
| 
| The Python FAQ has some good information on why Python uses
| reference counting.  RC gives good finalization semantics, plays
| nicely with other memory managers, and is very portable.
| 
| RC also works quite well with data caches and VM managers.  Using
| the Boehm-Demers GC with Python and disabling reference counting
| slows the interpreter down by a significant amount.

Really?  This is interesting.  I had thought that it would be faster.
At the very least, the simple assignment statment can be simple.  With
RC, both arguments' ref counts have to be checked first and then
updated appropriately.

Just out of curiosity, how do/did you disable the ref counting in the
interpreter?  All the tests I've seen of the Boehm collector used C
programs originally designed for malloc/free, not using any ref
counting schemes.  Maybe this has an effect?  I wonder if python was
designed for the collector instead of ref counting if this would
improve its performance . . .  (not that it is exceptionally slow now
anyways)

| 
|   Neil
| 

always-learning-new-things-ly y'rs  -D




From kern at myrddin.caltech.edu  Sun Jan 28 23:01:43 2001
From: kern at myrddin.caltech.edu (Robert Kern)
Date: 29 Jan 2001 04:01:43 GMT
Subject: ANN: clifford.py 0.6
Message-ID: <952pv7$4do@gap.cco.caltech.edu>

Okay, I finally got off my lazy duff and put the fixed version
on the Starship.

clifford.py is an implementation of Clifford (geometric) algebras
in Python using Numerical Python (http://numpy.sourceforge.net).

I posted a previous (and embarassingly buggy) version to c.l.py,
so now, I belatedly fix that mistake and put the new version on
the Starship.

Location: http://starship.python.net/crew/kernr/source/clifford.py

New in version 0.6:

 * fix a few stupid bugs that don't show up in 3 Euclidean dimensions
 * introduce a new algorithm for join and meet that actually works,
   but isn't very numerically stable: but it's better than nothing
 * various fixes and clean-ups
 
-- 
Robert Kern
kern at caltech.edu

"In the fields of hell where the grass grows high
 Are the graves of dreams allowed to die."
                             -- Richard Harter


From fgeiger at datec.at  Wed Jan  3 15:10:05 2001
From: fgeiger at datec.at (Franz GEIGER)
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2001 21:10:05 +0100
Subject: 8.3 peculiarity if run w/i console
References: <92g4dn$5ug$1@newsreaderm1.core.theplanet.net> <VjP26.36442$xW4.287502@news-server.bigpond.net.au> <92ih6d$bt0$1@newsreaderm1.core.theplanet.net> <3a4cee96.4237881050@nntp.gov.bc.ca>
Message-ID: <9300rf$uei$1@newsreaderm1.core.theplanet.net>

That did the trick, thanks you!

Best regards
Franz

"KellyK" <kelly.kranabetter at gems6.gov.bc.ca> wrote in message
news:3a4cee96.4237881050 at nntp.gov.bc.ca...
> On Fri, 29 Dec 2000 18:18:24 +0100, "Franz GEIGER" <fgeiger at datec.at>
> wrote:
> >Well, actually that's me, I call it "abbreviated". I know there are those
> >two forms of file names, but I dont like the one containing "~1". How can
I
> >get rid of that?
>
> Check out this web page:
>
> http://ntfaq.com/Articles/Index.cfm?ArticleID=13721
>




From MarkH at ActiveState.com  Tue Jan  2 10:08:09 2001
From: MarkH at ActiveState.com (Mark Hammond)
Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2001 15:08:09 GMT
Subject: HELP! win32com, COM, Invoke problem
References: <92rv3q$asi$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <3A51EDBF.3000808@ActiveState.com>

TB wrote:

>   File "F:\tb\cbo\test1.py", line 13, in ?
>     form = sess.CreateFormContext()
>   File "f:\python20\win32com\client\dynamic.py", line 150, in __call__
>     return self._get_good_object_(apply
> (self._oleobj_.Invoke,allArgs),self._olerepr_.defaultDispatchName,None)
> com_error: (-2147352573, 'Member not found.', None, None)
> 
> I used to debugger to dig into the dynamic.py, at line #422
> try:
>  ret =
> self._oleobj_.InvokeretEntry.dispid,0,pythoncom.DISPATCH_PROPERTYGET,1)
>  except pythoncom.com_error, details:
> .....
> 
> it doesn't throw an exception even CreateFormContext is a method, and
> the invoked is called with DISPATCH_PROPERTYGET. Is it supposed to
> throw an exception when a method is called with PROPERTYGET?

It is quite common for some COM objects to allow certain methods to be 
accessed as either a method or property.  This is mainly for VB, where 
you can't (could not) use parens with a sub.

So, that happens with

sess.CreateFormContext()

is that the "CreateFormContent" is making the method call when simply 
referenced as a property.  This causes Python to try and execute the 
_result_ of the function - probably calling the default method on the 
FormContext object.

Note that the traceback above has:

 > File "f:\python20\win32com\client\dynamic.py", line 150, in __call__
 > return self._get_good_object_(apply

This is what leads me to believe you can simply drop the parens.  Note 
that if you run "makepy" over this TLB, it will work correctly.

Mark.


> 
> what OLEVIEW says about Session
> [
>   uuid(E8000132-8693-11D0-B8B1-080009B6AB17)
> ]
> dispinterface Session {
>     properties:
>         [id(0xfffffffc)
> ]
>         IUnknown* _NewEnum;
>         [id(0x00000001), helpstring("SessionID")
> ]
>         BSTR SessionId;
>         [id(0x00000002), helpstring("Set this property to True when
> using JScript")
> ]
>         VARIANT_BOOL JScript;
>     methods:
>         [id(0x00000003), helpstring("Log into Clarify system")]
>         void Login(
>                         BSTR pLoginName,
>                         BSTR pPassword,
>                         [optional] VARIANT LoginType,
>                         [optional] VARIANT AssocDefault);
>         [id(0x00000004), helpstring("Log out")]
>         void Logout();
>         [id(0x00000005), helpstring("Creates a Clarify Form Context
> object")]
>         FormContext* CreateFormContext();
>         [id(0x00000006), helpstring("Builds a session cookie string")]
> .......
> 
> 
> --TB
> 
> 
> Sent via Deja.com
> http://www.deja.com/




From jhg at galdon.com  Fri Jan 26 04:32:42 2001
From: jhg at galdon.com (Juan Huertas)
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 10:32:42 +0100
Subject: How to spawn another program?
References: <94qdjl$5hk$1@mail.pl.unisys.com>
Message-ID: <94rfs9$n17$1@talia.mad.ttd.net>

Try with the module os:

os.exec*, os.startfile(file) .....

or with:

os.spawnv (mode, path, args)






From delza at antarcti.ca  Tue Jan  2 17:53:48 2001
From: delza at antarcti.ca (Dethe Elza)
Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2001 22:53:48 GMT
Subject: HTTPServer, performance
References: <mailman.977951836.8921.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <0_s46.921678$8u4.18404294@news1.rdc1.bc.home.com>

Sounds like garbage collection behavior, at least in Java-land.

There are lots of lightweight web servers out there, in Java and in Python.
Might want
to check out the code in one (or more) of those...

--Dethe

"Bill Scherer" <Bill.Scherer at VerizonWireless.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.977951836.8921.python-list at python.org...
> Hello eveyone, hope you had a nice holiday...
>
> Question: Is the code below the proper way to create a multi-threaded
> http server in Python, and what kind of performance should one expect
> out of it?
>
> The code below works.  It's an extremely stripped down verison of my
> current project which really runs under J(p)ython. I was unsatisfied
> with performance, so I stripped out all that wasn't web server and tried
> it under CPython and JPython.
>
> With the code below, CPython does about 12 tps on a dual 733 Mhz machine
> under RedHat 6.2. JPython is only slightly slower (when using a JVM that
> uses native threads and therefore both processors).  Apache on the same
> box does over 70 tps with a greater number of simulated users (100 vs
> 25).
>
> One thing I do see with both CPython and JPython running this code is
> random stalling.  ie. The server will be happily serving requests, then
> for no apparent reason, it justs stops.  CPU load drops during the
> stall, although it never gets very high. Two, maybe three, seconds
> later, it resumes serving.  Pings during this time show no change to
> network latency (0.4ms).
>
> Any and all help is appreciated.
>
> Thanks!
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
------
>
> import SocketServer, BaseHTTPServer
>
> PORT = 9777
>
> class HTTPServer(SocketServer.ThreadingMixIn,
> BaseHTTPServer.HTTPServer):
>     pass
>
> class RequestHandler(BaseHTTPServer.BaseHTTPRequestHandler):
>     def do_GET(self):
>         self.send_response(200)
>         self.send_header("Content-type", 'text/plain')
>         self.end_headers()
>         self.wfile.write('hello world')
>         return
>
> if __name__ == '__main__':
>     httpd = HTTPServer(('', PORT), RequestHandler)
>     print 'serving on port', PORT
>     httpd.serve_forever()
>
>
> --
> William K. Scherer
> Sr. Member of Applications Staff - Verizon Wireless
> Bill.Scherer_at_VerizonWireless.com
>




From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Wed Jan 10 06:06:00 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 12:06:00 +0100
Subject: Web devel with python. Whats the best route?
References: <93cqvi0191h@news1.newsguy.com> <mailman.978910629.6814.python-list@python.org> <mailman.978975978.19612.python-list@python.org> <spenrose-E755EB.22423209012001@news.dnai.com>
Message-ID: <93hfp1013sm@news2.newsguy.com>

"Sam Penrose" <spenrose at well.com> wrote in message
news:spenrose-E755EB.22423209012001 at news.dnai.com...
    [snip]
> In contrast to Alex's comments, however, we do not place Python
> statements within HTML. We stick with string substitution keys,

That's nice, but in my very first application I needed to
generate a variable number of repetitions of a table-row,
depending on values computed from the Python side of things.

Rather than reinvent loop-syntax &c, I found it simplest to
embed a for statement in the HTML template, a la:

+for i in range(len(results)):
    <TR> <TD><B>@i@</B></TD> <TD>@results[i]@</TD> </TR>
-

All the presentation logic goes into the template, all of
the computation into the Python CGI script, and my little
yaptu.py (yet another python template utility, of course)
bridges the gap (with about 50 SLOC's, plus comments,
docstrings, and test pushing it to a bit over 100 lines).

[For the curious, it's just a 2K byte download from
http://aleax.supereva.it/Python/Yaptu.zip -- but I have
to apologize in advance for its quality, since it WAS
my first playing with Python, and back in 1.5.2 times].


> The next time someone posts to comp.lang.python telling you you really
> need an Apache module/Zope/whatever to handle that customer feedback
> page, don't believe them.

To be honest, I don't think anybody's really saying you
NEED fancy approaches, just that they're more convenient
than roll-your-own-on-top-of-CGI.  This may well be true
for big and complex sites, too -- my counterthesis is just
that many sites are simple ones needing no more than CGI
(and perhaps 50 SLOCs worth of a templating utility:-).


Alex





From lars at stea.nu  Fri Jan  5 04:52:16 2001
From: lars at stea.nu (Lars Stea)
Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 09:52:16 GMT
Subject: cgi
Message-ID: <3A549C1C.3EC97EB4@stea.nu>

Hi,

how can i deside wether a form field can be left blank or not?

Thanks in advance.

Lars



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Thu Jan 18 15:28:15 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 21:28:15 +0100
Subject: Python and Industry, IBM I'm afraid
References: <3A63D9E8.F9B74ACE@mjs400.co.uk> <mailman.979631000.28993.python-list@python.org> <941c14$dok$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <mailman.979786609.2939.python-list@python.org> <946evt02mr@news2.newsguy.com> <947ddt$g8a$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <947jop01i2g@news2.newsguy.com>

"Donn Cave" <donn at u.washington.edu> wrote in message
news:947ddt$g8a$1 at nntp6.u.washington.edu...
> Quoth "Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com>:
> [re AIX ]
> |    As I recall, its main
> | "here's our horrible surprise of the day for you" feature
> | was a malloc that would never return 0 even if you asked
> | it for FAR more memory than you had around -- rather, the
> | program died horribly later when it actually tried to USE
> | the memory it THOUGHT it had allocated...
>
> Never ran into this, thanks maybe to more modest memory requirements.
> But AIX's malloc is somewhat notorious for the converse:  request
> 0 bytes and get a null pointer.  I guess the rationale for this is
> something like "ask a silly question, get a silly answer", and it
> still does that to this day.

But *THIS* is compliant with the ISO C standard.  I have no
problem with that -- our code routinely ported between a dozen
platforms at the time.


> When things are not going well on an AIX port, another thing to think
> about is a compiler flag, I believe it's -qchars=signed, that reverses
> their unusual unsigned char default.

Again, not the kind of porting problem you run into when you already
work on a dozen disparate platforms...:-).


Alex





From jhorSPAMBGONneman at wanadoo.fr  Sun Jan 28 02:53:56 2001
From: jhorSPAMBGONneman at wanadoo.fr (Jurie Horneman)
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 08:53:56 +0100
Subject: BUG? Python 2.0 chokes on international characters in Unicode strings
Message-ID: <958g87$fqr$1@wanadoo.fr>

"Jurie Horneman" <jhorSPAMBGONneman at wanadoo.fr> wrote in message news:...

<<Blah>>

Argh. I've just read some other postings in the newsgroup and found messages
concerning my problem... guess I should've done it the other way around...

The exception I got was "UnicodeError: ASCII encoding error: ordinal not in
range(128)".

A bug fix or FAQ entry on this would be nice. (Maybe there is one and I just
haven't found it :)
Does anyone know if this is in the bug database somewhere?

--
Jurie Horneman
Opinions expressed are my own
jhorSPAMBGONneman at wanadoo.fr





From robin at alldunn.com  Thu Jan 18 14:40:18 2001
From: robin at alldunn.com (Robin Dunn)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 11:40:18 -0800
Subject: Python & GUI?
References: <3A674896.C7E52247@crepido.com>
Message-ID: <vFH96.4$VC39.1048698@news.randori.com>

"Marco Seiri?" <marco at crepido.com> wrote in message news:3A674896.C7E52247 at crepido.com...
> Are there any GUI components or ways to build a GUI in
> Python that contains all the widgets that one would expect to
> find in a VB or Java environment. Can you (easily) build things
> like explorer like applications and such...
> 


There's lots of options.  Look here:

    http://starbase.neosoft.com/~claird/comp.lang.python/python_GUI.html


--
Robin Dunn
Software Craftsman
robin at AllDunn.com       Java give you jitters?
http://wxPython.org      Relax with wxPython!




From crutoy at aol.com  Thu Jan 11 17:23:42 2001
From: crutoy at aol.com (Crutoy)
Date: 11 Jan 2001 22:23:42 GMT
Subject: Python and Industry
Message-ID: <20010111172342.10148.00000934@ng-ca1.aol.com>

Hi , does anyone know how widly in an instries does python being used ? I
looked at the syntax of it and read some stuff on it,it's interested i just
want to know if it's worth learning it. Thanks


From jqcordova at my-deja.com  Fri Jan 26 05:19:15 2001
From: jqcordova at my-deja.com (jqcordova at my-deja.com)
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 10:19:15 GMT
Subject: New way to learn Python?
Message-ID: <94riuv$bqr$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

Spent last couple of years building well-known e-commerce sites using
Open Source code. Used Perl, Python,Tcl/Tk, & Java and had to teach jr.
programmers a lot about how to program in these languages. Found out
most effective way was the so-called Socratic method of
question/answer. So, put together a website  www.codecity.com
to explore this approach to teaching Open Source. Hope to get some
feedback/participation from this group especially in contributing
Python quizzes. Hope this is appropriate.

Jeff C.
www.codecity.com


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz  Wed Jan 31 19:32:13 2001
From: greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (Greg Ewing)
Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 13:32:13 +1300
Subject: function attributes are like function objects
References: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0101242015290.2444-100000@z.glue.umd.edu> <mailman.980400568.16791.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3A78AE8D.C9D25694@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz>

Sean Reifschneider wrote:
> 
> It didn't really
> seem like they were missing so much as it seemed like they would act
> more like everything else now...

Everything? What about lists, dicts, tuples, file
objects...?

What's so special about functions that we need to
be able to plonk arbitrary attributes on them, but
not any other builtin types?

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept, University of Canterbury,	  
Christchurch, New Zealand
To get my email address, please visit my web page:	  
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg


From aahz at panix.com  Sat Jan  6 18:42:17 2001
From: aahz at panix.com (Aahz Maruch)
Date: 6 Jan 2001 15:42:17 -0800
Subject: What makes Python Python (was: OO in Python (was Re: Migrating to perl?))
References: <3Fa56.4580$of7.216286@news1.atl> <m6G56.2070$4Z.109716@news2.atl> <937q8r01q91@news1.newsguy.com> <CWN56.2371$4Z.127056@news2.atl>
Message-ID: <938agp$c7a$1@panix6.panix.com>

In article <CWN56.2371$4Z.127056 at news2.atl>,
Joel Ricker <joejava at dragonat.net> wrote:
>
>Well since I've been P*** bashing myself quite a bit since I started up this
>thread a few days ago, I think I should rectify myself and mention that the
>original P*** had promise and did what the creator set out to do -- Thats
>why its called Practical *xtraction *eport *anguage but has somehow lost its
>way.

I believe even Larry refers to it as Pathologically Eclectic Rubbish
Lister.
-- 
                      --- Aahz (Copyright 2001 by aahz at pobox.com)

Androgynous poly kinky vanilla queer het    <*>     http://www.rahul.net/aahz/
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6

"This is Usenet.  We're all masturbating in public places."  -DH


From LangaK at discoveryhealth.co.za  Fri Jan 12 03:12:30 2001
From: LangaK at discoveryhealth.co.za (Langa Kentane)
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 10:12:30 +0200
Subject: running os commands [newbie]
Message-ID: <A69BC9CA4B39D411BF2200105A45B45B075B8C13@dhexchange.discoveryhealth.co.za>

Greetings.

I want to create a list call dfout[]
In the list, I want to put the output of the df command.
How do I go about doing this?  I have been trying to find this in the docs,
no luck so far.

Thanks in advance

__________________________________________________________
Langa Kentane		| TEL: (011) 290 3218
Security Administrator	| Cell: 082 606 1515
DISCOVERY HEALTH		| http://www.discoveryhealth.co.za
__________________________________________________________________




From matt at virtualspectator.com  Sat Jan 20 15:15:46 2001
From: matt at virtualspectator.com (matt)
Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 09:15:46 +1300
Subject: about DOM.
In-Reply-To: <94cm00$t4m$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
References: <94cm00$t4m$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <01012109311300.00900@localhost.localdomain>

Check out xml-sig archives ....

I use it heavily for building documents where many fragments are gathered from
the filesystem or an IPC, and inserted at many different locations in the
document.  That really is its power, but I as I learn more about it there seem
to be many more fun and interesting uses, for example, picking up whole
branches and shifting them to somewhere else becomes very handy.

Matt


On Sun, 21 Jan 2001, johnvert at my-deja.com wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I just read up some intro documents about DOM.  It seems like a really
> cool idea, but I haven't heard of anybody using it--doesn't seem to come
> up a lot.
> 
> I was wondering what are people using it for nowdays, and how I can
> access it from Python code.
> 
> Thanks,
>   -- John
> 
> 
> Sent via Deja.com
> http://www.deja.com/
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
-- 



From amk at mira.erols.com  Wed Jan 10 23:40:51 2001
From: amk at mira.erols.com (A.M. Kuchling)
Date: 11 Jan 2001 04:40:51 GMT
Subject: zodb & multiple processes
References: <kuhf36hotz.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi> <Yk976.1119$mX.27921@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <slrn95qf46.hn.amk@207-172-146-58.s58.tnt3.ann.va.dialup.rcn.com>

On Thu, 11 Jan 2001 03:00:08 GMT, 
	Kapil Thangavelu <kthangavelu at earthlink.net> wrote:
>currently the zodb assumes a process lock on a particular zodb storage. if
>you want to run it with
>multiple processes you can use ZEO, which is a bit heavyweight if you want
>your app to run on
>one machine as it communicates over tcp/ip.

ZEO can also use a Unix-domain socket, which would provide both
performance and security benefits.  I suppose you could write a
special Storage class that expected multiple openers, but don't know
of any Storage that actually supports that at the moment. 

--amk


From sandj.williams at gte.net  Fri Jan 19 11:01:40 2001
From: sandj.williams at gte.net (Steve Williams)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 16:01:40 GMT
Subject: Python COM and DCOM.
References: <3RV96.10957$wt2.125028@news1.oke.nextra.no>
Message-ID: <3A686640.534195EE@gte.net>

Syver Enstad wrote:

> I am having a bit of a problem getting a python COM object to work over
> DCOM.
>
> As far as I can see I've done exactly what is proposed in the Python on
> Win32 book. But the object is started on the local machine, when using
> win32com.client.Dispatch or the default instance creation methods in other
> languages such as JScript with ASP and C++. It seems like DCOM works when
> using the DispatchEx to explicitly choose the machine to run on but not
> else.
>
> Help very much appreciated, thank you.

Just a thought.  Run dcomcnfg on your server, highlight Python server name,
click on properties and look at the location tab.  You may also want to look
at the Identity tab, as well.




From xyzmats at laplaza.org  Fri Jan 19 10:27:19 2001
From: xyzmats at laplaza.org (Mats Wichmann)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 15:27:19 GMT
Subject: book recommendation?
References: <mailman.979094414.3323.python-list@python.org> <qlpg39.bm7.ln@mail>
Message-ID: <3a685c8d.7028987@news.laplaza.org>

On Wed, 10 Jan 2001 15:47:39 +1100, "Ben Catanzariti"
<benc at rehame.com> wrote:

>If you are using a Win environment i would recommend "Python Programming On
>Win 32" by Hammond & Robertson. This is a must have. or for a general OS
>information "Programming Python" another must have (you can never have too
>many) ... both published by O' Rielly and both are compliant with Version 2.

I've just picked this book up (i.e., I've owned the book for a while,
but not picked it up....) and I'm extremely impressed.  Mark and Andy
explain things beautifully: I'd suggest that this is valuable /even/
for non-windows programmers, for the quality of examples showing how
to apply "thinking in Python" to a wide range of problems.  It's not a
language tutorial, though.

Mark and Andy: thanks!  I'm enjoying this one!

Mats



From danielk at aracnet.com  Sat Jan 13 11:45:47 2001
From: danielk at aracnet.com (Daniel Klein)
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 08:45:47 -0800
Subject: Python Design Patterns (was Re: Should I learn Python or Java?)
References: <3cus5tk2n0qnhgfid5mnmauulc4gsjfnpb@4ax.com>, <HEO56.5504$y9.2881293@typhoon.we.rr.com> <978840685.459818@emperor.labs.agilent.com> <3A5DF377.791E3DE0@comm.mot.com> <mailman.979261515.31284.python-list@python.org> <mailman.979371618.7966.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <oe116t8dut0ol2on38v0n8qbro66qgi2c7@4ax.com>

On Sat, 13 Jan 2001 17:46:32 +0200 (IST), Moshe Zadka <moshez at zadka.site.co.il>
wrote:

>On Thu, 11 Jan 2001 19:30:22 -0800, Daniel Klein <danielk at aracnet.com> wrote:
>
>> Since you mention it, what is the pythonic way to implement a Singleton? You
>> don't have to provide a complete answer, just a pointer as to where to start
>> would be fine as I like to try to work these things out at first for myself.
>
>See the last Python-URL!: the first link points to Alex Martelli's discussion
>of factory methods. Read the thread, it has very good pointers.

Alex's message did not make it to my news server. Could you send it directly to
me please?

Thanks,
Dan


From jasonic at nomadicsltd.com  Fri Jan 12 00:13:38 2001
From: jasonic at nomadicsltd.com (Jason Cunliffe)
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 00:13:38 -0500
Subject: Binaries for mySQL module ?
References: <9%t76.1516$B6.336141@news1.rdc1.md.home.com> <slrn95t2k7.mh.gerhard.nospam@lilith.hqd-internal.de>
Message-ID: <t5t4e4holh0e9e@corp.supernews.com>

Check carefully at:

http://mysql.he.net/downloads/mysql-3.23.html

..looks like the compiled Win32 is down the list there

-- Jason
___________________________________________________________
Jason CUNLIFFE = NOMADICS['Interactive Art and Technology']

Gerhard H?ring <gerhard.nospam at bigfoot.de> wrote in message
news:slrn95t2k7.mh.gerhard.nospam at lilith.hqd-internal.de...
> http://highqualdev.com
>
> On Fri, 12 Jan 2001 02:30:29 GMT, Eric Hagemann <ehagemann at home.com>
wrote:
> >Are there binaries for mySQLmodule for win32 available ? A quick pointer
> >would be appreciated
>
> --
> mail:   gerhard <at> bigfoot <dot> de
> web:    http://highqualdev.com




From gregj at pobox.com  Sun Jan 28 19:44:28 2001
From: gregj at pobox.com (Greg Jorgensen)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 00:44:28 GMT
Subject: Iterate thru object member names
References: <9526tr$iac@dispatch.concentric.net>
Message-ID: <952edb$l0h$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

In article <9526tr$iac at dispatch.concentric.net>,
  Phlip <phlip_cpp at my-deja.com> wrote:
> Pythons:
>
> In Javascript you can iterate thru an object's members and print out
all
> their names. What's the equivalent in Python?

----
for a in dir(object):
    print a
----

dir() works on any Python object, including classes and functions.
Depending on what you are doing, you may also want to look at the
__dict__ attribute of your class:

  myclass.__dict__

The types module may also be of interest if you need to determine the
type of an attribute (function, string, etc.).

--
Greg Jorgensen
Portland, Oregon, USA
gregj at pobox.com


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From grante at visi.com  Sun Jan 28 12:10:45 2001
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 17:10:45 GMT
Subject: PyArg_Parse vs. PyArg_ParseTuple?
Message-ID: <poYc6.30$X6.23266@ruti.visi.com>

I was hacking on socketmodule.c, and noticed that in some
places PyArg_Parse() is used to convert Python data to C data,
and in other spots PyArg_ParseTuple() is used.  

In order to get one line to do what I wanted, I had to change
from PyArg_Parse to PyArg_ParseTuple.  It seems to work the way
I expect.

I found the documentation on PyArg_ParseTuple(), but I can't
find any documentation on PyArg_Parse(). So I'm not 100% sure
that what I did was "safe".  What is the difference between
PyArg_Parse and PyArg_ParseTuple?

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  Wait... is this a FUN
                                  at               THING or the END of LIFE in
                               visi.com            Petticoat Junction??


From dhirja at vsnl.net  Tue Jan 23 10:24:13 2001
From: dhirja at vsnl.net (Dhirja Gangopadhyay)
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 20:54:13 +0530
Subject: WhatamI doing wrong ? (re: About Content-Transfer-Encoding)
Message-ID: <01db01c08550$998238a0$020000c3@node02>

I did the following few things in this:

I found on a Google Search -
http://www.linuxsolutions.demon.co.uk/PythonPages2.html
    subwriter = w.nextpart()
    subwriter.addheader("Content-Transfer-Encoding", "base64")
    subwriter.addheader("Content-Disposition", 'attachment; filename="%s"' %
_fileName)
    f = subwriter.startbody('application/octet-stream; name="%s"' %
_fileName)
    subwriter.flushheaders()
    base64.encode(open('./%s' % _fileName, 'r'), f)
    w.lastpart()

Where I learnt to change my:

    listLines = ['zxczxc','werwerwer']
    subwriter = w.nextpart()
    f = subwriter.startbody('text/html')
    subwriter.flushheaders()
    f.writelines(listLines)
    w.lastpart()

To:

    def mthEncoder(lstLines):
        import base64
        tmpList = []
        for lstLine in lstLines:
            tmpList.append(base64.stringencode(lstLine))
        return tmpList

    listLines = ['zxczxc','werwerwer']
    subwriter = w.nextpart()
    subwriter.addheader("Content-Transfer-Encoding", "base64")
    subwriter.addheader("Content-Disposition", 'inline')
    f = subwriter.startbody('text/html')
    subwriter.flushheaders()
    f.writelines(mthEncoder(listLines))
    w.lastpart()

Works fine on the server. The e-mail goes out.

But when received on the Outlook Express 5.5 client, the strings are all
mangled.
I cant figure out why. What am I doing Wrong ?

Thanks

Sandipan

PS. I am using Dhirja's account as my ISP's SMTP server is down !

----- Original Message -----
From: "Dhirja Gangopadhyay" <dhirja at vsnl.net>
To: <python-list at python.org>
Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2001 7:32 PM
Subject: About Content-Transfer-Encoding


> I use the MimeWriter module to build a MIME body that I then send over
SMTP
> using smtplib.
>
> How can I force content-transfer-encoding to base64 ?
> Content-type is text/plain, text/html and text/xml.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Sandipan
>
>
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>





From seefeld at sympatico.ca  Wed Jan 17 10:27:47 2001
From: seefeld at sympatico.ca (Stefan Seefeld)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 15:27:47 GMT
Subject: XREF tool?
References: <3A65A235.468D582E@uni-goettingen.de>
Message-ID: <3A65C861.E58ADFD9@sympatico.ca>

Ragnar Beer wrote:

> Does anybody know if there's a cross reference tool available for Python?

have a look at synopsis: http://Synopsis.sourceforge.net. The last release
(about two weeks ago) contained an IDL and a C++ parser, but the actual code
in cvs already contains a python parser as well.

Regards,	Stefan
_______________________________________________________              
              
Stefan Seefeld
Departement de Physique
Universite de Montreal
email: seefelds at magellan.umontreal.ca

_______________________________________________________

      ...ich hab' noch einen Koffer in Berlin...


From fredrik at effbot.org  Wed Jan 10 12:25:48 2001
From: fredrik at effbot.org (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 17:25:48 GMT
Subject: escape sequences and string comparisons
References: <93cboe$ctj$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <93elo7$aoh$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <93f1rd$iv7$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <2wG66.4330$AH6.750256@newsc.telia.net> <93haki$c0h$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <wW076.5611$AH6.791959@newsc.telia.net>

jkndeja at my-deja.com wrote:
> OK, perhaps I shouldn't have written 'RE' match above. What I was
> hoping/expecting is that this:
>
> >>> import re
> >>> s = r'[123]'
> >>> r = re.escape(s)
> >>> r
> '\\[123\\]'
> >>> r == s
> 0
> >>>
>
> or something similar, would give 1, not zero

try:

    for s in all_possible_string_values:

        r = s
        assert r == s

        assert eval(repr(s)) == s

        m = re.match(re.escape(s), s)
        assert m != None and m.span() == (0, len(s))

except AssertionError:
    print "this message will never be printed!"

Cheers /F




From mlh at idi.ntnu.no  Tue Jan 30 08:56:49 2001
From: mlh at idi.ntnu.no (Magnus Lie Hetland)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 14:56:49 +0100
Subject: Sets in Python
Message-ID: <956hcd$qef$1@tyfon.itea.ntnu.no>

I quite often use dictionaries as sets in Python... But it doesn't really
seem pretty enough to me... Some arbitrariness (as with
"while 1: ... break" I still don't like that one...) about using what
to me is a value as a key, and assigning it some value -- like 1,
for instance... And then checking it with has_key, and removing
it with del...

Isn't there a better (more beautiful) way of doing this?

And if one was to write a small wrapper of some kind --
is there any way to implement "x in s" without a linear search?
Or does the "in" operator always loop from 0 and up?
(It would certainly be nice to be able to override it...)

--

  Magnus Lie Hetland      (magnus at hetland dot org)

 "Reality is what refuses to disappear when you stop
  believing in it"                 -- Philip K. Dick







From wagnernils at hotmail.com  Sat Jan  6 14:42:27 2001
From: wagnernils at hotmail.com (Nils Wagner)
Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2001 19:42:27 -0000
Subject: Fwd: Recompilation of Vpython
Message-ID: <F97Y6XgtXHSvIC0RoeN000054c8@hotmail.com>




>From: "Nils Wagner" <wagnernils at hotmail.com>
>To: python-help at python.org
>CC: wagnernils at hotmail.com
>Subject: Recompilation of Vpython
>Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2001 19:23:03 -0000
>
>Hi,
>
>I tried to recompile Vpython
>
>http://cil.andrew.cmu.edu/projects/visual/index.html
>
>for Linux (Kernel 2.2.16).
>Python version : Python 2.0 (#1, Oct 16 2000, 18:10:03)
>[GCC 2.95.2 19991024 (release)] on linux2
>
>A make in cvisual/ produces the following messages (Makefile.res).
>
>Who can help me ?
>
>Nils

_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.
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From wedjlok at excite.com  Mon Jan  8 15:48:32 2001
From: wedjlok at excite.com (Eric Anechiarico)
Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2001 20:48:32 GMT
Subject: Fibonacci numbers/program
References: <936gsv$3r1$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <936r2h0ps5@news1.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <93d92t$7si$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

> Writing to a file is very easy.  You open the file for writing with
> fileobj = open(filename,"w"), then you can use its fileobj.write(s)
> method to write any string s to it -- just build the string s as you
> wish, e.g., str(anumber)+'\n' to emit the stringform of anumber
> followed by an end-of-line.
>
> As for a GUI, you have various choices, but Tkinter is probably the
> simplest toolkit to use in your case (on a Mac).  I have no Tkinter
> on Mac experience (no Mac experience at all, actually) so I'll
> refrain from any specifics, just in case there are specific issues
> I'm unaware of...
>
> Alex

Thanks for your response, Alex.  I was wondering in what context I
should use that within the program itself?  I am fairly new to Python
and have not found very many references in the books that I have read
that would show the exact sequence on when/where I would put that
string/command into effect with the code itself.

Basically, I am defining the command to
def FindFibBetween(A,B), having it go through the simple sequence of
getting the numbers, and then they output them to a screen.  I want to
interven so that it will NOT print them to a screen, but dump them
directly into a text file.

So what I need to know is at what point to I call it in the program to
open a file, write the numbers to it, and then close the file?

Here is the complete code that I use so far:

def FindFibBetween(A,B):
  x, y = 1L, 1L
  while x < B:
    if x >= A: print x
    x, y = y, x+y

then I input FindFibBetween(1, 100) or whatever range for (1, n)

Thank you for your time and assistance.

Eric


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From m.hadfield at niwa.cri.nz  Tue Jan 30 17:09:29 2001
From: m.hadfield at niwa.cri.nz (Mark Hadfield)
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 11:09:29 +1300
Subject: How to extend sys.path on Win9x permanently?
References: <3a75ef9c.11194652@news.muenster.de> <980811891.858385@clam-ext> <3a7730ab.37058673@news.muenster.de>
Message-ID: <980892569.896508@clam-ext>

"Martin Bless" <m.bless at gmx.de> wrote in message
news:3a7730ab.37058673 at news.muenster.de...
> ...
> To be exact, it's the
> HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Python\PythonCore\2.0\PythonPath\win32
> key on my machine. It adds the extra path both in Python/DOS and
> PythonWin.

Well you can add any key you want under .../PythonPath, e.g. I have one
called HTMLgen to add the (you guessed it) HTMLgen directory to the path.

> But what I like much better is the solution to put MYLIBS.PTH into the
> Python dir.

I wasn't aware of this one. I'm not sure if I like it better or not (I've
never been as reluctant to edit the registry as others seem to be) but I'll
try it out.

I'm glad you started this thread!

---
Mark Hadfield
m.hadfield at niwa.cri.nz  http://katipo.niwa.cri.nz/~hadfield/
National Institute for Water and Atmospheric Research
PO Box 14-901, Wellington, New Zealand





From grante at visi.com  Tue Jan  2 16:06:33 2001
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2001 21:06:33 GMT
Subject: why no "do : until"?
References: <92jj3j$ff7$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <slrn94shbe.150.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <X8s36.2731$Qb7.305339@newsb.telia.net> <slrn94smds.150.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <FOt36.17$vd1.2224@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com> <slrn94t1vj.150.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <3A4E95FD.D6C737A7@engcorp.com> <slrn94tqkh.150.grey@teleute.rpglink.com>
Message-ID: <tpr46.7782$4c.597534@ruti.visi.com>

In article <slrn94tqkh.150.grey at teleute.rpglink.com>, Steve Lamb wrote:
>On Sat, 30 Dec 2000 21:12:13 -0500, Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:

>>I understand the point you are making; I'm just pointing out that the
>>opposing views seem well-founded.  Areas where I think you missed the
>>point are in the importance of code maintainability, the increased
>>complexity with your suggested approach, and the feelings of the "entire
>>CS community" on this issue.
>
>    I seriously doubt that initing a variable before use causes either code
>maintainability problems or increased complexity.

The problem is that when you decide to change the endpoint from
25 to something else, you _may_ have to change the code in two
places: the test and the initialization.  If you decide to
raise the endpoint from 25 to 50, you only have to change one
line.  If you want to lower it you might have to change the
initialization also.  

Requiring edits to two possibly widely seperated places in the
source code to change a single algorithm value is (in my
experience) going to cause a bug some day.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  Yow! And then we
                                  at               could sit on the hoods of
                               visi.com            cars at stop lights!


From chrisw at nipltd.com  Wed Jan  3 12:19:46 2001
From: chrisw at nipltd.com (Chris Withers)
Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 17:19:46 +0000
Subject: [Zope-dev] case insensitive sorts
References: <NEBBLGACMKDPCFFIIEALIELBCKAA.andyd@nipltd.com> <3A5350B5.79BE639F@kaivo.com> <006501c075a4$5b8c46a0$ae03a8c0@fork> <3A535764.1144FA95@nipltd.com> <00eb01c075a8$24f9a570$ae03a8c0@fork>
Message-ID: <3A535F32.14E1BA3D@nipltd.com>

Andy McKay wrote:
> 
> Hmm im actually not so sure on that. Currently you can do a sort either way,
> if you fix it so its only case sensitive we'll end up like Visual Basic :)

Actually, I'd like to see it 'fixed' so it's only case insensitive:

Alan
betty
Carl
Wilbur

> Fixing python is a question for the python list and I'd be scared to ask it
> there...

I'm sure I copied one of these messages to the python list for that very
reason but it didn't get any response. Ah well, I'll copy this one there
as well and see what happens ;-)

cheers,

Chris



From grey at despair.rpglink.com  Fri Jan 19 16:29:56 2001
From: grey at despair.rpglink.com (Steve Lamb)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 21:29:56 -0000
Subject: Why no isexec, isread, iswrite, etc (was: I must be missing something obvious: os.path.isexecutable?)
References: <slrn96enju.g1v.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <slrn96ep7c.g1v.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <slrn96erlf.h11.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <eU0a6.744$eI2.252354@ruti.visi.com>
Message-ID: <slrn96hcek.mqj.grey@teleute.dmiyu.org>

On Fri, 19 Jan 2001 19:50:34 GMT, Grant Edwards <grante at visi.com> wrote:
>[Same answer if you're going to try to write or exec a file.]

    It is?  What if you want to check to ensure something is executable before
actually symlinking as a sanity check?  Yes, things can change between the
stat call and when you do the link in that case but that isn't an excuse not
to do the sanity check in the first place in some situations.  For example,
startup scripts which are symlinking different scripts to adapt the startup to
the changing configuration of a laptop.

    Anyone want to guess what my current project is?  :P

-- 
         Steve C. Lamb         | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your
         ICQ: 5107343          | main connection to the switchboard of souls.
-------------------------------+---------------------------------------------


From grante at visi.com  Fri Jan 26 15:46:09 2001
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 20:46:09 GMT
Subject: SourceForge problems
References: <mailman.980510689.2616.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <lmlc6.774$27.199390@ruti.visi.com>

In article <mailman.980510689.2616.python-list at python.org>, Tim Peters wrote:

>> the power cable goes in the mains[1] before submitting mine...

>> [1] This is too harsh.  Oh well.
>
>Actually, it's too English.  Nobody in America has any idea how
>devasting you've been. 

Sure we do. We're not _all_ completely dim on this side of the
pond.

>don't-even-try-discussing-hot-steaming-faggots<wink>-ly y'rs - tim

You're probably not talking about cigarettes or firewood, so
I'm guessing it's some sort of sausage. But English food is
best left undiscussed if not uneaten.  ;)

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  PIZZA!!
                                  at               
                               visi.com            


From danielk at aracnet.com  Sat Jan 13 11:20:16 2001
From: danielk at aracnet.com (Daniel Klein)
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 08:20:16 -0800
Subject: Defining a new exception with multiple args
References: <gnir5t80r7asgcp36jtssum2mspk5i5h4d@4ax.com> <mailman.979233912.12772.python-list@python.org> <Dio76.2527$4v4.189258@dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net>
Message-ID: <1qv06ts4e9orlhb6tg4bdh1jqqitaqbnqc@4ax.com>

On Thu, 11 Jan 2001 20:01:39 GMT, "Randall Kern" <randy at spoke.net> wrote:

>You could also override __str__:
>
>class RecordNotFoundException(Exception):
>    def __init__(self, filename, recordid):
>        self.filename = filename
>        self.recordid = recordid
>
>    def __str__(self):
>        return '%s(%s)' % (self.filename, self.recordid)

Yes, this is a good solution.

Thanks,
Dan



From sill at localhost.kitenet.net  Tue Jan 16 21:58:17 2001
From: sill at localhost.kitenet.net (Oldayz)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 02:58:17 GMT
Subject: Python equivalent of 'use strict'
References: <3A6483CD.CB2424E0@raqia.com> <94232r$297$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <dT796.4770$tq1.254271@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>

On Tue, 16 Jan 2001 18:15:01 GMT, Hamish Lawson <hamish_lawson at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>David Lees wrote:
>
>> Is there an equivalent to the perl 'use strict'? [My perl/C++ guru
>> friend] is concerned with accidentally initializing values of
>> mistyped variables. I showed him how you get an error doing an
>> operation with an uninitialized variable ... but he is looking for
>> this 'use strict' stuff.
>
>Python effectively has "use strict" on all the time and all assignments
>effectively use "my". This in Python
>
>    x = 3
>    z = 2
>    x = z + 5
>    z = y
>
>is equivalent to this in Perl:
>
>    use strict;
>    my $x = 3;
>    my $z = 2;
>    my $x = $z + 5;
>    my $z = $y;
>
>Both will complain about the uninitialised y.
>
>But "use strict" couldn't stop you from saying
>
>    my $foo = 2;
>    my $fooo = $foo + 1;
>
>where you meant to say
>
>    my $foo = 2;
>    my $foo = $foo + 1;
>
>(though I concede that using 'my' on both assignments is not quite
>idiomatic Perl). Similarly, Python won't stop you saying:
>
>    foo = 2
>    fooo = foo + 1
>
>where you meant
>
>    foo = 2
>    foo = foo + 1
>
>Hamish Lawson
>
>
>Sent via Deja.com
>http://www.deja.com/

Would it perhaps be useful to have to indicate specifically that you're
declaring a new variable with a keyword?

import strict

new a
new b = 5
a = b + 6

c = 3 # raises an error

I'm not sure I'd like it - I only used perl in a few tiny scripts and
never did use strict, so I don't know how it'd feel.

-- 

	Andrei


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Thu Jan 11 04:39:06 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 10:39:06 +0100
Subject: Reflection: Calling Methods Dynamically by Name
References: <93jfur$9rj$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <93jv2r0g97@news1.newsguy.com>

<harrc at my-deja.com> wrote in message news:93jfur$9rj$1 at nnrp1.deja.com...
> Question for Guido or language experts:
>
> Does Python have the ability to call methods of a class by name?  For

Yes, as I've seen other answers have already showed you.  (You actually
seem to want to call the method on an _instance_ of the class, of course).

> example, I have a string: "ProcessData" and the class MyClass has a
> method called ProcessData.  Is there a way I can do something like this:
>
> mc = MyClass()
> str = "ProcessData"
> args = ("Data", 1, 3)
> CallMethodByName(mc, str, args)

One way to let you use the exact syntax you desire:

def CallMethodByName(instance, method_name, method_args):
    method_object = getattr(instance, method_name)
    return method_object(*method_args)

The getattr will raise an attribute-error exception if
the instance does NOT have some attribute named with
the string method_name refers to; if the attribute IS
there, but is not callable, you'll get a type-error from
the following line instead.  If these are not the exact
exceptions you desire to receive for such usage errors,
you will add try/except blocks to translate them to
whatever different exceptions you require (but, DO use
exceptions to signify such errors -- it's by far most
often the best approach).

The '*method_args' syntax takes a tuple, referred to by
method_args, and applies it as arguments to the call
being performed (new in Python 2.0: the apply built-in
function, which I see has been also suggested, is how
you would do that in older Python versions -- it also
keeps working in 2.0, of course).


Alex





From katz at Glue.umd.edu  Mon Jan 15 10:40:49 2001
From: katz at Glue.umd.edu (Roy Katz)
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 10:40:49 -0500
Subject: Parameterized Types
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0101151010020.7702-100000@z.glue.umd.edu>

Hello,



<asbestos-cape="if you respond, be nice">


I came across http://www.python.org/~guido/static-typing/  the other day.
Some things that struck me as odd:

-  parameterized types: 
   
   class foo<TYPE>:  pass
   def func<TYPE>: pass

   Why is this necessary?  I think the point of parameterized types is
   to tell the Python compiler that we are only going to use TYPE and
   TYPE.  Is this correct?

Which begs the question:   is it possible to write an analyzing
tracer which traces the types of objects and generates efficient code?
for example -- the gcd() function:

   def gcd(a,b): 
      if a>b: return a
      return b

Now, if in my program all I pass to gcd() are int's, the tracer would 
recognize this. So I don't need any decl statement; the compiler "knows"
that I will only pass in int's.  Presumably, no optimizations would be
made if my script passes in a lone string or makes a decision between
passing a string or passing an int, etc. 


-  Syntax for static typing

   The suggestion

      decl f(x: int) -> int

   or 
   
      decl f(x: int) -> [int]

   looks to me like a mathematical mapping.  Is there any cleaner way to
   specify this?  instead of ->, can't we overload an existing keyword
   ('return')?  Similarly, [int] looks like 'list of integers of size
   1'.  The slides expressed inlining and explicit forms of declarations; 
   is it possible to come to a concensus before TMTOWTDI? 
   For that matter, is -> or return even needed? 

     def f(x: int) int: 
       pass

   I use Python for scripting and larger programs (RPGs, etc.). 
   What I need in static typing is this:
   
     + Clean and unambiguous
     + No new keywords ('->' vs. 'return')

     + There's only *one* (right) way to do it. 
   
   I pondered whether it is important to be able to write class/func
   prototypes separately from implementations -- but then that we get
   the following:

     decl func( x: int ) -> int
     def func(x)
       pass

   or

     decl func( x: int ) -> int
     def func(x: int ) -> int:
       pass
   
   I like the second approach better because it is more consistent
   (imho) between declaration & implementation.  Then again.. 
   with the first approach, if you take out the decl statement, then
   func becomes fully generic.  In the second implementation, func
   stays statically typed even when we remove the decl statement. 

An additional concern is that Python will become
like Pascal in the sense that it is very readable, but it just
takes too long to write out (relative to C/perl/etc.)




</asbestos-cape>



Roey Katz
president,
Federation of Ignorant Scripters. 



From tim.one at home.com  Fri Jan  5 13:36:07 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 13:36:07 -0500
Subject: embedded python - cancel "while 1: pass"
In-Reply-To: <YDk56.307$Oe.2551@tor-nn1.netcom.ca>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCOEPEIGAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Warren Postma]
> ...
> I have decided to patch Python 1.5.2 to have thread-based
> signals.
>
> I noticed a comment in ceval.c, that said someone else has the
> same thought as me, was it Guido?

The comment is Guido's, but his goal was not the same.

> [Guido's comment, from ceval.c]
> There are two possible race conditions:
>    (1) nested asynchronous registry calls;
>    (2) registry calls made while pending calls are being
>        processed.
>    While (1) is very unlikely, (2) is a real possibility.
>    The current code is safe against (2), but not against (1).
>    The safety against (2) is derived from the fact that only
>    one thread (the main thread) ever takes things out of the queue.
>
> XXX Darn!  With the advent of thread state, we should have an array
>    of pending calls per thread in the thread state!  Later...
>
> -- (end snippet) --
>
> Since Pharlap has no "registry", I don't know what equivalent trouble
> "nested asynchronous registry calls" might get me in on PharLap,

Guido was writing in Dutch there:  his use of "registry" has nothing to do
with Windows.  What he means by "registry call" is "a call to
Py_AddPendingCall", the function which "registers" (in Dutch -- or, for that
matter, also in English <wink>) the callback function to be invoked later.
Note the comment at the start of Py_AddPendingCall:

	/* XXX Begin critical section */
	/* XXX If you want this to be safe against nested
	   XXX asynchronous calls, you'll have to work harder! */

It's getting at the same thing.  Py_AddPendingCall does not have proper
mutual exclusion (the comment *says* "critical section" but the code doesn't
implement one!), and it *is* subject to race condition #1, as explained in
the previous comment.  "Nested" isn't quite the right word, though:  if two
threads each call Py_AddPendingCall close in time, it's possible for both of
them to see busy==0 upon entry to Py_AddPendingCall, and so for both of them
to enter the body simultaneously.  Madness will ensue.  Python itself never
makes calls like that now, but if you're using the mechanism for more, you
may.  *If* it had per-thread queues of pending calls (as suggested in the
first comment), that problem would go away.  As I mentioned in a previous
msg, this (a per-thread queue) would be one of the things easier to
implement if we first had a portable thread-local storage mechanism to build
on.

> but so far, so good. I have removed the checks to see if thread id
> == main_thread.

Then you've also taken away the current code's protection against Guido's
race condition #2.  As you quoted him above:

    The safety against (2) is derived from the fact that only
    one thread (the main thread) ever takes things out of the queue.

It's in the nature of race conditions that they're erratic, so there's no
assurance in "so far, so good".  The comments are telling you what *is*
going to go wrong, sooner or later -- it's just a matter of time (and system
load, and OS scheduling, and phase of the moon, and ...).




From iqrogr at email.com  Fri Jan 19 13:28:42 2001
From: iqrogr at email.com (iqrogr at email.com)
Date: 20 Jan 2001 02:28:42 +0800
Subject: Powerful Technique  4779
Message-ID: <3a68875a.0@news2.tm.net.my>

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From mhammond at my-deja.com  Fri Jan 12 20:44:29 2001
From: mhammond at my-deja.com (Mark Hammond)
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 01:44:29 GMT
Subject: Can we in python code, catch exception generated by C++ pythonized function?
References: <3A5A4545.661385AD@aristotech.com> <93gd8d$las$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <3A5FAA6E.ABA298AB@aristotech.com>
Message-ID: <93obtt$h9u$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

In article <3A5FAA6E.ABA298AB at aristotech.com>,
  Siu-Tong Hui <tong at aristotech.com> wrote:
> Thanks for all the responses.
>
> We use SWIG to link from python to C++. Our highest level code is in
> python.
...

> level command shell, we would have to put in exception control
> codes in all pythonized C++ functions in order to have
> bullet-proof exception protection. If I can catch exception in
> python, then I only need to do it once in my highest level command
> shell in python.

You can't catch C++ exceptions directly in Python.  But check out the
SWIG %except typedef.  You should be able to say something like:

%typemap(python,except) MYBOOL {
      try {
         $function
      } catch (e) {
         PyErr_SetString(MyError, e->description_or_whatever);
         return NULL;
      }
}

This is the technique I use to ensure that most SWIG wrapped functions
in the Win32 extensions correctly convert Win32 error codes to Python
exceptions - see pywintypes.i in the Python for win32 sources.

Mark.


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From ckalista at realproject.be  Fri Jan 19 06:11:22 2001
From: ckalista at realproject.be (Kalista Christophe)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 12:11:22 +0100
Subject: Synchronize a socket close?
Message-ID: <9497f1$k4v$1@news1.skynet.be>

A socket close doesn't apply immediately. Is it possible to force it?

Thanks,

-- Kalis --




From erno-news at erno.iki.fi  Tue Jan  9 02:22:14 2001
From: erno-news at erno.iki.fi (Erno Kuusela)
Date: 09 Jan 2001 09:22:14 +0200
Subject: Web devel with python. Whats the best route?
References: <93cqvi0191h@news1.newsguy.com> <mailman.978910629.6814.python-list@python.org> <mailman.978975978.19612.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <kuk885i40p.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>

In article <mailman.978975978.19612.python-list at python.org>,
Moshe Zadka <moshez at zadka.site.co.il> writes:

| Perhaps even CGI+HTMLgen is an answer, though this might depend on
| personal taste. 

there's also HyperText at <URL:http://www.dustman.net/andy/python/>.
i liked it more than HTMLgen.

| Of course, the simplest thing that can possible work
| interface-to-the-browser part is of course not even going with CGI,
| but with inheriting from BaseHTTPRequestHandler.

very true, the http server stuff in the standard library is very
much under-appreciated.

i mostly use cgi for low-usage stuff because there's the issue of
keeping the python webserver process running. it takes
extra resources from the computer and extra effort from the human
(for the automation).

| [...] with ZODB and
| a dash of cookies, state management becomes so easy you'll wonder
| how you did without it.

very true, the http server stuff in the standard library is very
much under-appreciated.

how does one take care of locking/concurrency control with zodb?
can you just open the same database from multiple processes
or threads simulateneously and have it work?

  -- erno


From bobhicks at adelphia.net  Sat Jan 13 15:49:31 2001
From: bobhicks at adelphia.net (Robert L Hicks)
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 20:49:31 GMT
Subject: do python programmers avoid the mac? 
References: <3A607DCC.7EF7809C@mjs400.co.uk>
Message-ID: <B686297A.8862%bobhicks@adelphia.net>

I am new to Python and cutting my teeth on MacOS 9. It is proving
interesting to say the least. I am looking forward to OSX since it will be a
paradigm (BSD) more people deal with.

> From: Pete <p at mjs400.co.uk>
> Organization: MJS400
> Reply-To: p at mjs400.co.uk
> Newsgroups: comp.lang.python
> Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 17:09:48 +0100
> Subject: do python programmers avoid the mac?
> 
> Ordinary Bloke seeks stable python2.0 mac ide environment for possible
> long term development antics. Don't tell me to buy a noisy steenkin
> intel fat box.



From warrickb at my-deja.com  Tue Jan 30 05:42:12 2001
From: warrickb at my-deja.com (warrickb at my-deja.com)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 10:42:12 GMT
Subject: Wrapping up a C++ class
References: <954496$ues$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <9546rv01ahd@news2.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <9565q3$nnh$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

Thankyou all I shall take a look and see if I can make sense of it!  It
does strike me as odd that there isn't a simple one source file example
of how to do it in the docs though...


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http://www.deja.com/


From olczyk at interaccess.com  Sat Jan  6 23:04:25 2001
From: olczyk at interaccess.com (Thaddeus L. Olczyk)
Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2001 04:04:25 GMT
Subject: LoadLibrary/dllopen in python.
Message-ID: <3a57ea9f.348172625@nntp.interaccess.com>

Is there a way to call LoadLibrary (Win32 ) or dllopen (Linux ) in
Python?
TIA


From boud at rempt.xs4all.nl  Thu Jan 25 01:21:10 2001
From: boud at rempt.xs4all.nl (Boudewijn Rempt)
Date: 25 Jan 2001 06:21:10 GMT
Subject: Tkinter vs wxPython: your opinions?
References: <3A6F899F.E164F628@home.com>
Message-ID: <94ogkm$ggb$2@news1.xs4all.nl>

Rick Lee <rwklee at home.com> wrote:
> It has to be cross platform between Linux and Windows, so it  seems that
> my choices are Tkinter and wxPython.

PyQt is also crossplatform between Linux and Windows.

> Your experience, thoughts, opinion, on the relative merits and pitfalls
> of each?

> My particular case:  A GUI that has 5 windows max., will incorporate a
> xmlrpc client, will have a python object browser, being able to build
> data entry screens on the fly from a description of an object's
> attributes, programmer not familiar with either toolkit.

The dynamic building of a data-entry form based on a description
has already been done before - with PyQt. See the kuragui part
of kura: http://www.xs4all.nl/~bsarempt/linguistics.


-- 

Boudewijn Rempt  | http://www.valdyas.org
-- 

Boudewijn Rempt  | http://www.valdyas.org


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Wed Jan 10 05:28:27 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 11:28:27 +0100
Subject: Problems with zipfile module...
References: <93ha6j$ca6$1@reader1.imaginet.fr>
Message-ID: <93hdis0128r@news2.newsguy.com>

"Christophe Prevost" <ommadawn at club-internet.fr> wrote in message
news:93ha6j$ca6$1 at reader1.imaginet.fr...
    [snip]
>    backup = zipfile.ZipFile(zip, "w", "ZIP_DEFLATED")

Change to:
    backup = zipfile.ZipFile(zip, "w", zipfile.ZIP_DEFLATED)

i.e., the option is NOT to be passed as a string, but rather
as a numeric 'constant' which is defined in module zipfile.


Alex





From benpark at my-deja.com  Tue Jan 23 12:19:48 2001
From: benpark at my-deja.com (Ben Park)
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 17:19:48 GMT
Subject: password input in rsync
Message-ID: <94kef8$4j6$1@nnrp1.deja.com>


Hi,

I am trying to automate the process of getting files using rsync. Here
is what I do:

myPass = '1234'
temp1 = "rsync -avz -e 'ssh -l benpark' guppy:temp1 ."
out1,in1,err1 = popen2.popen3(temp1)
in1.write(myPass)

But it does not work. rsync does not take password input from the
standard in.

Any suggestion? Thanks in advance.


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From trentm at ActiveState.com  Tue Jan  2 19:25:15 2001
From: trentm at ActiveState.com (Trent Mick)
Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2001 16:25:15 -0800
Subject: Komodo
In-Reply-To: <uvgrx7trh.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com>; from db3l@fitlinxx.com on Tue, Jan 02, 2001 at 12:23:30PM -0500
References: <B672A66F.72CC%bobhicks@adelphia.net> <3A4D6D0B.20000@ActiveState.com> <uvgrx7trh.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com>
Message-ID: <20010102162515.B25147@ActiveState.com>

On Tue, Jan 02, 2001 at 12:23:30PM -0500, David Bolen wrote:
> Mark Hammond <MarkH at ActiveState.com> writes:
> 
> > I can't speak for Perl.  But for Python, you certainly should be able to 
> > craft your own working Python version.  There is nothing special in the 
> > ActivePython binaries, other than everything Komodo needs in one 
> > package.
> 
> When I tried to install Komodo, it complained that ActivePython wasn't
> installed (I have a standard Python installation), at which point I
> gave up.  Do you know if this is just a check for certain Python
> modules?  I had assumed it was looking for something truly specific to
> ActivePython, and I wasn't prepared to install that just for Komodo.

It was probably complaining about the lack of the PyWin32 extensions. Do you
have those installed? They are installed by default with ActivePython but not
with BeOpen's Python. You can get it here:
    http://www.activestate.com/Products/ActivePython/win32all.html
And I have heard reports that Komodo then works fine.

Cheers,
Trent

-- 
Trent Mick
TrentM at ActiveState.com



From amk at mira.erols.com  Tue Jan  9 22:26:24 2001
From: amk at mira.erols.com (A.M. Kuchling)
Date: 10 Jan 2001 03:26:24 GMT
Subject: mxTools (was Re: why no "do : until"?)
References: <CC59868A0A76D311B1F50090277B321C1F3795@VRTMAIL> <mailman.979085770.30088.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrn95nmcn.ij.amk@207-172-69-8.s262.tnt8.brd.va.dialup.rcn.com>

On Tue, 09 Jan 2001 16:16:36 -0800, Paul Prescod <paulp at ActiveState.com> wrote:
>I haven't tried this recently but if I remember correctly, the problem
>is: How would I do a regexp match on "Py..n" on a 1-gigabyte file with a
>fixed amount of "lookahead"? Do I have to load in chunks at a time and
>then do the pattern matching across "chunk boundaries" myself? If

With the mmapfile module, you should be able to mmap the entire
gigabyte file, and then do an re.search() on the whole thing.
Performance is then up to _sre and your OS's virtual memory
algorithms.

--amk



From moshez at zadka.site.co.il  Sat Jan 27 13:46:22 2001
From: moshez at zadka.site.co.il (Moshe Zadka)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 20:46:22 +0200 (IST)
Subject: . Python 2.1 function attributes
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0101271303540.3501-100000@y.glue.umd.edu>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0101271303540.3501-100000@y.glue.umd.edu>, <Pine.GSO.4.21.0101271158190.3501-100000@y.glue.umd.edu>, <Pine.GSO.4.21.0101270135190.7677-100000@y.glue.umd.edu> <mailman.980593892.725.python-list@python.org> <$5A+ZwAGjtc6EwE0@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <14962.62953.304511.523826@anthem.wooz.org> <mailman.980613639.23439.python-list@python.org> <mailman.980617472.28020.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <20010127184622.4DD3CA840@darjeeling.zadka.site.co.il>

[I wrote]
> try:
> 	print foo, bar
> finally:
> 	sys.stdout = sys.__stdout__
 
[Roy Katz] 
> what is wrong with redirection? must we wrap the output in a try:
> anymore than wrap a standard print in a try:?

Because if the print raises an exception, I want the stdout to be
the old one.

[Moshe Zadka]
> print >>sys.stderr foo, bar
> 
> Is obvious, simple and easy to understand.

[Roy Katz]
> Perhaps simple, but to me it looks like it has the potential to be
> ambiguating.

Huh? What else *could* it mean?

>  If we have print>>file,  why not print>>obj (if not already
> so);

print >>obj, something

Prints ``something'' to obj. Any file-like object would do. Just the
same as almost anywhere in Python.

> if we already have print>>obj, why not extend it to
> statement>>obj

Which would do?
Besides, it would be ambigous, since expressions are statements
in Python.

> Why stop there? if not statement>>obj, why not 
> func>>obj? since obj's can implement __call__(self), why
> not obj>>obj?

What has any of it got to do with telling "print" to print to some
other file-like object rather then sys.stdout? Your reductio ad absordum
has no logical basis.

> I'm only interested in why it happened at all, and how to prevent it from
> screwing up our language further :)

But Guido has been wanting all this to happen sooner -- he just did not
have the man power.

> Let's see it! petition! vote! who wants and who doesn't?  No more of this
> of this 'Benevolent Dictator' or 'Hey I've got a patch' garbage.  *vote*
> and make Python not the patcher's language, not my language, and not
> yours, but *our* language.

Why would anyone care about votes? If you have a rational argument, let's
hear it. And if you think the Python development doesn't listen to your
logical arguments, then you're welcome to take Python and develop it in
a direction that suits you -- the license is quite liberal.

> Let's add bless().  I want to change the class of an object at
> runtime.

You can already do this, and have been able to a long time.

foo.__class__ = new_class

Why would anyone want a new builtin for that?

> all this when real issues like typing and making int's first-class objects
> falls to the wayside. 

You're welcome to contribute patches.
http://sourceforge.net/projects/python/ -> Patches
-- 
Moshe Zadka <sig at zadka.site.co.il>
This is a signature anti-virus. 
Please stop the spread of signature viruses!
Fingerprint: 4BD1 7705 EEC0 260A 7F21  4817 C7FC A636 46D0 1BD6



From loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de  Mon Jan 15 18:34:42 2001
From: loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de (Martin von Loewis)
Date: 16 Jan 2001 00:34:42 +0100
Subject: Determining names of instances
References: <e7L86.554$KD3.238565@typhoon.aracnet.com>
Message-ID: <p6qvgrgqtil.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>

"Daniel Klein" <DanielK at jBASE.com> writes:

> A question I hope has a simple answer. Take the following simple class and
> instance
> 
>     class foobar:
>         pass
> 
>     foo = foobar()
> 
> The question is, is there a way for the object 'foo' to know that its name
> is 'foo'?

No. Objects have no names. Consider

foo = foobar()
bar = foo

What is that object's name? foo or bar? If you still think it is foo,
consider this:

foo = foobar()
bar = foo
foo = foobar()

Now, the object referenced in bar(), should it's "name" still be foo?
Even though the name foo refers to some other object?

Of course, you can invoke globals() and check whether the object is
listed there.

Regards,
Martin



From sragsdale at my-deja.com  Thu Jan 18 15:26:26 2001
From: sragsdale at my-deja.com (sragsdale at my-deja.com)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 20:26:26 GMT
Subject: who imported me?
Message-ID: <947jh5$puv$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

(Hopefully) easy question: I'm writing a module that uses values in
variables from the script that imported it.

How can I tell which script is importing me?

Is there some easier way to get the parent module's variable values?


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From jkraska1 at san.rr.com  Mon Jan 15 00:14:22 2001
From: jkraska1 at san.rr.com (Courageous)
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 05:14:22 GMT
Subject: P*rl in Latin, whither Python?
References: <slrn90oemp.t5.kc5tja@garnet.armored.net> <slrn90ofcn.ilq.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <3A0C8258.4217A1C@alcyone.com> <slrn90p35i.e2b.wtanksle@dolphin.openprojects.net> <3A0D7321.29BE1264@engcorp.com> <874s1ei02a.fsf@fangorn.stofanet.dk> <3A0DEA72.7F8A2868@alcyone.com> <3A0E0E00.50B7A1E1@engcorp.com>  <871ywhmiis.fsf@fangorn.stofanet.dk> <slrn90u6n6.sj.warlock@gargoyle.myth> <974070178.345720@clam-ext> <mailman.979323254.7670.python-list@python.org> <979516309.507737@clam-ext>
Message-ID: <01256tkvn7pb97fsbqad8ef3g91acr1hpm@4ax.com>

On Mon, 15 Jan 2001 12:51:49 +1300, "Mark Hadfield" <m.hadfield at niwa.cri.nz> wrote:

>"J?rgen A. Erhard" <juergen.erhard at gmx.net> wrote in message
>news:mailman.979323254.7670.python-list at python.org...
>>
>>     Mark> People in glace houses shouldn't throw stones.
>>
>> Just an illustration of the truism that every spelling flame contains
>> at least on [sic] spelling error itself. ;-)

My most frequently encountered error of this type is the one where
someone criticizes someone else's "spelling and grammer (sic)".

Most amusing,

C//



From vesemir at pro1.promail.pl  Sun Jan  7 17:32:34 2001
From: vesemir at pro1.promail.pl (Vesemir)
Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2001 23:32:34 +0100
Subject: shtml in python
References: <93adro$k9n$1@sunsite.icm.edu.pl> <9z366.240411$_5.53698286@news4.rdc1.on.home.com> <93algg$pdj$1@sunsite.icm.edu.pl> <mailman.978903308.1722.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <93aqke$md6$1@sunsite.icm.edu.pl>

Hello!
> Configure your web server to allow the execution of CGI scripts.
> And then include the corresponding URL of the CGI scripts
> inside the SSI statement.


Could you give me an example?

Yours
QdlatY




From jkndeja at my-deja.com  Tue Jan  9 04:30:46 2001
From: jkndeja at my-deja.com (jkndeja at my-deja.com)
Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2001 09:30:46 GMT
Subject: escape sequences and string comparisons
References: <93cboe$ctj$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <93elo7$aoh$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

OK, my question is being purified ;-) into the following:

When, in a string, an escape character '\' is followed by a character
which is not in the list of 'characters forming escape sequences', the
behaviour of Python is that both the backslash and the following
character are kept in the string.

My copy of K & R C (2nd Ed, Sec A2.5.2) says 'if the character
following the \ is not one of those specified, the behaviour is
undefined'

My copy of 'The C Reference Manual' (Harbison and Steele), says
(paraphrased) '... the behaviour is undefined, though traditionally the
effect is simply that the backslash is ignored'.

My question - is there a good reason that Python has moved from this
'traditional' effect, which seems to me to be a useful one, for
instance in the context of my original question? Would this behaviour
have broken something else? Shall I raise a PEP? ;-)

    Regards
    Jon N


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From tim.one at home.com  Sat Jan 27 01:29:01 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 01:29:01 -0500
Subject: Precision of float --- double?
In-Reply-To: <87hf2lk0xz.fsf@tea.thpoon.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCMEJLILAA.tim.one@home.com>

]Arcady Genkin]
> Could someone point me to a place in the documentation where the float
> type is defined?

Probably.  But if you have grep or findstr, you can find it faster than I
can type it in.

> s it equivallent of C's double?

Yes, and on all platforms.  It *is* a native C double.  Similarly, a Python
int is a native C signed long (while a Python long is unbounded -- a
"bigint").




From chris.gonnerman at usa.net  Sat Jan 27 11:34:29 2001
From: chris.gonnerman at usa.net (Chris Gonnerman)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 10:34:29 -0600
Subject: Strange Python 2.1 return style (was Re: . Python 2.1 function attributes)
References: <mailman.980593892.725.python-list@python.org> <3A72E786.BCBD13C7@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <000701c0887f$07164ce0$a100000a@local>

----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Hansen" <peter at engcorp.com>
> Tim Peters wrote:
> > Barry also added code to Python 2.1 to let you write, e.g.,
> >
> >     def f() >> x:
> >         x = 1
> >         y = 2
> >
>
> Is there a smiley missing from the above?  Sounds like a
> bad April Fool's joke, to me.

Motion seconded!  The 'print >>' statement seems natural to an old shell
scripter but the
'def f() >> x:'  form is plain confusing.  If I saw it in some module source
somewhere I would
say "what the hork is that?" and waste an hour or two online (more or less)
trying to figure it out.

> I think some people are starting to get nervous
> about '>>' and other such non-intuitive, C++-like
> cryptic sugary syntax.

I'll second that motion too!

> Whatever happened to 'one way of doing things',
> and 'simpler is better than completely twisted'?

When I learned Python it was like this:

    PERL: Boring name, twisted syntax
    Python: Twisted name, boring syntax

and I LIKED it that way.  Unsurprising syntax and semantics in a language
which
'just works' is vastly my preference!

I'm not against change.  I just want everything plain, logical, and
consistent.  I've spent
too many hours armwrestling with code written by others who prefer a
different subset
of whatever language... in Python (up to now) I haven't had to expand my
knowledge of
the language (much) just to read another person's code.






From benh at intelligenesis.net  Thu Jan 11 20:21:37 2001
From: benh at intelligenesis.net (Ben Hutchison)
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 12:21:37 +1100
Subject: is Python fully object oriented ?
References: <20010110184830.13286.00000826@ng-fg1.aol.com>
Message-ID: <3A5E5C21.3E036BFE@intelligenesis.net>

Crutoy wrote:

> Hi , i haven't used Python but i do have experience in other languages vb ,
> java , c++ . Is Python a fully object oriented ? Thanks

I have just been considering the same questions myself. I do have a few
concerns with Pythons OO credentials, relative to Java/C++.

1. Most significantly, Python requires the "self" or "this" reference to be
explicitly declared. This seems like a bit of a hassle if you do pure OO
development with python; lots of typing! Suggests perhaps that OO features were
built onto initially procedural language.
eg: Python
    class MyClass:
        def __init__(self, name):
        def doIt(self):
Python with implict self (as in C++, Java)
    class MyClass:
        def __init__(name):
        def doIt():

2. Access control is more informal in Python than C++/Java. I know in the case
of Java at least that security provisions depend in part on access control
being strictly enforced, and additonally there are a number of design
principles that assume 3 tiered (public, protected, private) access levels.
* Is Pythons leading underscore mechanism more of a convention?
* It is strong enough to build security mechanisms on?
* Can a class declare a priviledged API availalbe only to subclasses?


--
Ben Hutchison
Software Engineer-Market Predictor
Webmind Australia
http://www.webmind.com/productspredictor.html




From bobhicks at adelphia.net  Thu Jan 25 21:26:59 2001
From: bobhicks at adelphia.net (Robert L Hicks)
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 02:26:59 GMT
Subject: Tkinter 3000 (was Re: Tkinter vs wxPython: your opinions?)
References: <3A6F899F.E164F628@home.com> <hvZb6.2156$_8.33280@news1.rdc1.bc.home.com> <slrn9710o1.73.cerutti@fiad06.norwich.edu> <iF%b6.9208$Qb7.1327643@newsb.telia.net> <slrn9712f3.1f.cerutti@fiad06.norwich.edu> <z_%b6.9215$Qb7.1328910@newsb.telia.net>
Message-ID: <B6964A86.95C3%bobhicks@adelphia.net>

Will Tk3k be rolled into Python at some point?

<BH />

> From: "Fredrik Lundh" <fredrik at effbot.org>
> Organization: Telia Internet
> Newsgroups: comp.lang.python
> Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 20:27:11 GMT
> Subject: Re: Tkinter vs wxPython: your opinions?
> 
> Neil Cerutti wrote:
> 
>> Sorry.
> 
> no problem!
> 
>> I'm still proud that I spelled your name correctly.
> 
> that's appreciated (but I don't really mind, as long
> as you don't call me Fred ;-)
> 
> (btw, if you skip over to amazon, you'll find a book by
> authors Frederick Lundh and Frederik Lundh...)
> 
> Cheers /F
> 
> PS. The first Tkinter 3000 WCK alpha will be out next
> week.  Stay tuned.
> 
> 



From maxm at normik.dk  Thu Jan  4 05:05:01 2001
From: maxm at normik.dk (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Max_M=F8ller_Rasmussen?=)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 11:05:01 +0100 
Subject: Configuring PWS for Python ASP Scripting
Message-ID: <7BD10B680501D411B9DF009027E06F32197B79@exchange>

If you install Mark Hammonds Win32all it should work nicely. You can get it
at:

http://www.activestate.com/Products/ActivePython/Extensions.html

Max M

-----Original Message-----
From: Herb Lainchbury [mailto:herb at dynamic-solutions.nospam.com]
Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2001 10:17 AM
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: Configuring PWS for Python ASP Scripting


Could someone direct me to the steps required to configure PWS so I can use
python scripts in my ASP pages?  I want to be able to write .asp files of
the form:

<html>
<%@ Language=Python %>
<%
print 'Hello from Python'
%>

but when I do this I get the error message:

Active Server Pages error 'ASP 0129'

Unknown scripting language

/index.asp, line 5

The scripting language 'Python' is not found on the server.

Thanks.






-- 
http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list



From spamfranke at bigfoot.de  Wed Jan 31 10:38:27 2001
From: spamfranke at bigfoot.de (Stefan Franke)
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 15:38:27 GMT
Subject: invalid-token syntax hook (was Re: Hack request: rational numbers)
References: <mailman.980764655.7892.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3a782e12.10122330@news.btx.dtag.de>

>We *might* get somewhere being even less ambitious.  Perhaps by extending
>Python's grammar in a *fixed* way, so that every tool can learn to deal with
>it via "cheap tricks", and no compile-time hooks are needed to decide
>whether a piece of text *is* Python code.  The simplest thing I can think of
>would be to allow any letter as a prefix to a string (instead of just the
>[uUrR] allowed today), and ditto for a suffix on "a number" (instead of just
>[lL] today).

IHMO this is a very good idea, since I also had it before <wink>. Seriously, as
the extension language Python was designed to be, I think the lack of user 
definable literals is a gaping hole, especially compared to, say, Tcl.

At least it stopped me more than one time from writing an extension to interface
an existing library supporting various musical datatypes, whose notation 
is one of its most important adventages.

Being forced to include musical literals into run-time evaluated strings
invalidates one of its strongest points.

Stefan




From bobhicks at adelphia.net  Sun Jan 21 21:09:46 2001
From: bobhicks at adelphia.net (Robert L Hicks)
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 02:09:46 GMT
Subject: Why is "as" not a keyword?
References: <3A679717.1328@loop.com> <slrn96f8a7.il3.grey@teleute.rpglink.com>
Message-ID: <B6910070.93AB%bobhicks@adelphia.net>

Last I looked...which was 5 seconds ago..."as" is not in the keyword list. I
am sure if it is ever added then IDLE will be updated to reflect that.

> From: grey at despair.rpglink.com (Steve Lamb)
> Organization: We're organized?!
> Reply-To: morpheus at here.not.there
> Newsgroups: comp.lang.python
> Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 02:07:03 -0000
> Subject: Re: Why is "as" not a keyword?
> 
> On Thu, 18 Jan 2001 17:23:35 -0800, Jesse W <jessw at loop.com> wrote:
>> Most people know about the functionality of the import statement that
>> in IDLE, and import lights up as a keyword, but "as", which has to be
>> there and is clearly part of the syntax, does not.  If this question has
>> been answered already, pardon me; I have not seen the answer anywhere.
> 
> What are you asking?  Just because an IDE (or editor) does not highlight a
> word doesn't mean it isn't a keyword in the language.  In this case it sounds
> like something to take up with IDLE's mantainer.
> 
> -- 
> Steve C. Lamb         | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your
> ICQ: 5107343          | main connection to the switchboard of souls.
> -------------------------------+---------------------------------------------



From katz at Glue.umd.edu  Sat Jan 27 11:58:06 2001
From: katz at Glue.umd.edu (Roy Katz)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 11:58:06 -0500
Subject: . Python 2.1 function attributes
In-Reply-To: <C9Cc6.123108$ge4.43303339@news2.rdc2.tx.home.com>
References: <mailman.980575232.12720.python-list@python.org> <Pine.GSO.4.21.0101270135190.7677-100000@y.glue.umd.edu> <C9Cc6.123108$ge4.43303339@news2.rdc2.tx.home.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0101271156550.3501-100000@y.glue.umd.edu>

On Sat, 27 Jan 2001, Rainer Deyke wrote:

> Syntax sugar for singletons could chop another line from the class-based
> idiom:
> 
> 
> singleton g:
>   attr = 0
>   def __call__(): pass


I thought of that, so I wrote the other post (about an Entity type). 
I noticed that your __call__() doesn't pass self.  Was this intentional,
given that  you specified a singleton?

Roey



From donn at u.washington.edu  Wed Jan  3 14:15:41 2001
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: 3 Jan 2001 19:15:41 GMT
Subject: Threads
References: <mailman.978545468.8001.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <92vtot$h84$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>

Quoth Terry Hancock <hancock at earthlink.net>:

| I'm writing a scheduler for running "behaviors" under a
| system modelled roughly on "subsumption architectures"
| (Dr. Rodney Brooks and others, check MIT's AI and Robotics
| publications for references to "sumbsumption" and
| "behavior programming").
|
| Basically, it seems very reasonable to run these as
| lightweight processes or "threads," so I'm considering
| using the Python "pthreads" module for posix threading
| in order to do this, but I've never done this before
| and I have some concerns about it:
|
| 1) How broad is "pthreads" support? -- we have a goal
| of this program running on at least Linux, Windows, and
| Mac computers.  Will the code remain portable? What
| platforms don't support pthreads?  Ultimately I'd
| like to run this on embedded systems as well.
|
| 2) Do any of these architectures impose high per-thread
| costs or limits on the number of processes that can be
| running (or rather what are the limits I can expect for
| any architecture?).  I ask this because this programming
| model calls for large numbers (100s or 1000s) of very
| light processes (e.g. 10 - 100 lines of Python code).
|
| The alternative is to simply run the behaviors
| sequentially, without spawning a bunch of separate
| threads, but this is contrary to the design philosophy
| of subsumption architectures, and loses some of their
| advantages (e.g. "fail-soft" resistance to buggy
| behavior code).  The idea is that programs consist
| of large numbers of quasi-independent components which
| can fail without wrecking the rest of the system.
| Processes that "hang up" can just be killed by
| the scheduler when they miss their deadlines.
|
| Also, I'd just like to be aware of any caveats or
| advice you might have about this kind of application.
|
| Thanks a lot!
|
| The project, BTW is http://light-princess.sourceforge.net/
| this is for the "character agents".

Just to be fair and not single out any particular architecture
you mentioned, I tried a simple program on one you didn't, and
under BeOS, 100s of threads isn't a problem but 1000s seems to
be stretching it (I tried 10000, and it didn't execute correctly.)

I don't know of a pthreads module, on any platform.  BeOS doesn't
support pthreads, but the "threads" module works, and the "threading"
module.

>From what I have heard of the stackless microthread system, you
won't get the `processes that "hang up" can just be killed' part
of what you want there, at least not for all causes of hanging up.
Honestly, I guess you won't get it from Python threads either,
because there is no provision in the API for killing a thread, but
at least the process will continue, because these threads go down
to the operating system level where the usual hanging up happens.

	Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu




From dsh8290 at rit.edu  Tue Jan  2 17:14:11 2001
From: dsh8290 at rit.edu (D-Man)
Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2001 17:14:11 -0500
Subject: Q: JPython, NumPy, and PIL?
In-Reply-To: <t54h8osbuhc630@corp.supernews.com>; from scott@csihq.com on Tue, Jan 02, 2001 at 04:23:10PM -0500
References: <t54h8osbuhc630@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <20010102171411.A2096@westsidecnc.rh.rit.edu>

Sure, it's a python module.  But you will need to have the C parts of
it compiled and reachable on the system you will run it on.  It may be
more complicated having the Java + Python + C interaction, so you
might run into other problems and decide it's not worth it to try.

HTH,
-D

On Tue, Jan 02, 2001 at 04:23:10PM -0500, Scott Bortman wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> Can I use the NumPy or PIL libraries from JPython?
> 
> Thanks in advance,
> scottie



From andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au  Mon Jan 15 16:10:29 2001
From: andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au (Andrew MacIntyre)
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 08:10:29 +1100 (EDT)
Subject: storing passwords
In-Reply-To: <20010115003607.B3666@glacier.fnational.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.OS2.4.30.0101160801230.450-100000@CENTRAL>

On Mon, 15 Jan 2001, Neil Schemenauer wrote:

> On Mon, Jan 15, 2001 at 10:08:52PM +0200, Moshe Zadka wrote:
> > On Mon, 15 Jan 2001 Andrew MacIntyre <andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au> wrote:
> >
> > > I wrote a simple module that stores the account,password pair as an XOR
> > > "masked" string in a dbm file with the hostname as the key.  The module is
> > > only published (put in the PYTHONPATH) as a .pyc/.pyo, so the full source
> > > is not generally readable.
> > >
> > > This is only obscurity however, not real security.
> >
> > And not even good obscurity! .pyc files are actually quite readable
> > if you use the dis module, and I think Mr. Aycock wrote a decompyler.
> > Don't use security through obscurity, please!
>
> There's no excuse either:
>
>     import sha
>     def hash_password(password):
>         """Apply a one way hash function to the users password and
>         return the result"""
>         return sha.new(password).hexdigest()
>
>     def valid_password(self, password, hash):
>         "Return true if the provided password is correct"
>         return (hash == hash_password(password))
>
> Its easy to add some "salt" to the hash too if your worried about
> dictionary based attacks.

In the application I had, I needed the password in raw form (it was for an
account on a different system) so a hash was no good.

Everything that has been said about security vs obsurity I agree with, but
sometimes circumstances force you to take an approach you'd rather not.
In the particular circumstances at the time, the risk assessment was that
the solution I used was tolerable in view of there being no alternative
solution (organisational politics were the difficulty, not
technicalities).

--
Andrew I MacIntyre                     "These thoughts are mine alone..."
E-mail: andrew.macintyre at aba.gov.au    (work) | Snail: PO Box 370
        andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au  (play) |        Belconnen  ACT  2616
        andymac at pcug.org.au           (play2) |        Australia




From joejava at dragonat.net  Tue Jan  9 18:23:21 2001
From: joejava at dragonat.net (Joel Ricker)
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 18:23:21 -0500
Subject: mxTools (was Re: why no "do : until"?)
References: <mailman.979035250.28265.python-list@python.org> <t5mo8oimr7lle7@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <a9N66.1735$_e7.115757@news2.atl>

Jason Cunliffe wrote in message ...
>Oleg Broytmann <phd at phd.pp.ru> wrote:
>>    Anyone here has any doubts that at least mxDateTime simply MUST be in
>> the Python core? :)
>
>YES!!
>PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE let's end this 1970.epoch.ticks.DateTime-oriented
>mAdNeSs now = include mxDateTime in Python core for perpetuity..


NO!! I just figured those routines out. Don't change them on me yet! ;)

Joel

--
I have been Perl-Free for 4 Days, 20 Hours, 33 Minutes, and 40 Seconds.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Joel Ricker   joejava at dragoncat.net
  Just Another Python Hacker




From tjreedy at udel.edu  Fri Jan 26 21:24:10 2001
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 21:24:10 -0500
Subject: . Python 2.1 function attributes
References: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0101260824430.1922-100000@y.glue.umd.edu>
Message-ID: <94tbm0$12$1@news.udel.edu>

"Roy Katz" <katz at Glue.umd.edu> wrote in message
news:Pine.GSO.4.21.0101260824430.1922-100000 at y.glue.umd.edu...
> Hello..
>
> I posted before a much longer version of this question but I got only one
> response.  What do function attributes give that cannot be accomplished
> with function objects?

Since functions are and always (for at least five years) have been
(Py)Objects and since they have always had attributes (like many other
types of PyObjects), it is still not clear what you are asking, and hence
the paucity of answers.

The new thing in 2.1 is to allow users to directly set as well as read
user-defined function attributes.  This eliminates the need for certain
kludgy workarounds that people have been resorting to.

Terry J. Reedy





From keichwa at gmx.net  Sun Jan 28 04:04:17 2001
From: keichwa at gmx.net (Karl Eichwalder)
Date: 28 Jan 2001 10:04:17 +0100
Subject: Can't configure gnome-python, imlib fails with 'no --libs'
References: <94ujvo$7pp$00$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <shelxoavzi.fsf@tux.gnu.franken.de>

Browne at t-online.de (Edward D. Browne) writes:

> 	I can't compile gnome-python-1.0.53 on either my SuSE7.0
> or Redhat7.0 systems, both failing with the same error, namely:

All these packages are coming with SuSE Linux 7.0 (some of them have
strange names, though).  Please, install the so called Source RPMs
(installable via YaST) and check out the spec files; than call
./configure as shown in the spec file.

-- 
work : ke at suse.de                          |                   ,__o
     : http://www.suse.de/~ke/             |                 _-\_<,
home : keichwa at gmx.net                     |                (*)/'(*)


From zippy1984 at my-deja.com  Wed Jan 24 07:59:22 2001
From: zippy1984 at my-deja.com (zippy1984 at my-deja.com)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 12:59:22 GMT
Subject: win32com.client - need some help
Message-ID: <94mjj8$v3g$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

I am trying to port some VB code to Python, but I have a problem
with code that passes Objects by reference....

VB:
   Dim ob as someObject
   Dim dic as IDictionary
   Dim i as Long

   ob = CreateObject("some.object.1")
   ob.getDictionary dic  ' set "dic" to point to the "ob" dictionary
   i = dic.getValue("xyzzy")

Python:
   import win32com.client
   ob = win32com.client.Dispatch("some.object.1")  # ok
   # I can now use "ob" to call methods that returns infomation
   # by the return value.
   #... then how do I get the dictionary?


regards, tom



Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From vasvir at iit.demokritos.gr  Wed Jan  3 17:23:24 2001
From: vasvir at iit.demokritos.gr (Vassilis Virvilis)
Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 00:23:24 +0200
Subject: SMB Module
References: <92n1lh02evv@drn.newsguy.com> <slrn94vpc7.544.mballen@angus.foo.net> <92pkod011eh@drn.newsguy.com> <3A508B35.1D328941@iit.demokritos.gr> <92s8b30ddt@drn.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <3A53A65C.5047B2C@iit.demokritos.gr>

Armin Steinhoff wrote: 

[snip]
> >
> >I think we have a slight misunderstanding here. Please let us remind you
> >that unless you are using linux you cannot mount SMB shares since you
> >lack the smbfs module which is a smb client actually.
> 
> Well ... I was talking about utilities for mounting of SMB volumes.
> There are a lot of other 'smbfs' like modules for other UNIXes.
> (For QNX RTP ... it's called fs-cifs)

OK

> 
> > The SMB client library is very useful
> 
> Huh ... what is a 'SMB client library' ??
> 
> >in that respect, thus effectively allows other operating systems to access MS
> >>servers.
> 
> It allows access to SMB servers ... not only M$ servers.

That's true, although one can argue that the native file sharing
protocol for UNIX <-> UNIX file sharing is NFS. SMB is useful only when
you have MS servers involved.

> 
> > Since python offers bindings for
> >every other library in this planet I don't really see why such an
> >addition would be  useless or inconsistent.
> 
> What the heck should offer a 'SMB client library' to that planet since we are
> able to mount SMB volumes??
> 
> Armin

I seem to recall the need of several people to access SMB servers which
didn't have kernel support for SMB like filesystems in their system. If
this is not the case [anymore] I apologize.

	.Bill


From chris at voodooland.net  Fri Jan 26 13:10:09 2001
From: chris at voodooland.net (Chris Watson)
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 12:10:09 -0600 (CST)
Subject: How to spawn another program?
In-Reply-To: <94qdjl$5hk$1@mail.pl.unisys.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.21.0101261208560.79401-100000@open-systems.net>

> Is there a way in python to launch another program,
> like a batch file or other executable?

Hi ed!

	Try looking at os.spawnv() [1]. I think thats what your looking
for.


[1] Shouldnt this be in a FAQ somewhere :-)

Chris




From mfletch at tpresence.com  Tue Jan 30 00:35:12 2001
From: mfletch at tpresence.com (Mike Fletcher)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 00:35:12 -0500
Subject: need Numeric module
Message-ID: <CC59868A0A76D311B1F50090277B321C1E1494@VRTMAIL>

http://numpy.sourceforge.net/

HTH,
Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: Issac Trotts [mailto:trotts at mit.edu]
Sent: Monday, January 29, 2001 2:56 PM
To: ABDENOUR HADID; python-list at python.org
Subject: Re: need Numeric module


Why not try a Google search for Numeric Python.

Issac

ABDENOUR HADID (hadidab at yahoo.fr) wrote:

> hello..
> 
> I want to excute a scrit wich import a Numeric module,
> where can I find this module?
> 
> thanks
> 
> 
> 
> ___________________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!? -- Pour dialoguer en direct avec vos amis, 
> Yahoo! Messenger : http://fr.messenger.yahoo.com
> 
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list



From db3l at fitlinxx.com  Thu Jan 25 17:12:42 2001
From: db3l at fitlinxx.com (David Bolen)
Date: 25 Jan 2001 17:12:42 -0500
Subject: ANN: timeoutsocket.py --> v1.12 works with Python 2.0
References: <980352751.234548674@news.flashcom.net> <mailman.980354010.1825.python-list@python.org> <3A6F9224.FBCE2EF1@home.com>
Message-ID: <uae8fqo11.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com>

Rick Lee <rwklee at home.com> writes:

> I don't know how expensive threads are.  If I have to implement a
> server, it seems to me that I have to do recv() on every connection I
> accept on a separate thread.  Is that the way to go?  Is there a more
> efficient way?

Typically an application like this uses select() to wait for any of
its connections to have something to process, and then it processes
those that it needs to.  Some later Unix platforms also have a poll()
call that can be more efficient.

So you end up with a main loop (which may be a distinct thread if you
have a GUI front-end) blocking in select() except when something needs
to be done.

>                 Asyncore?  (In my application, all TCP connections are
> very long lived, there can be up to 1000 simultaneous connections.)

The asyncore module effectively packages up the loop around the select
(or poll if available), and dispatches I/O to the appropriate socket
connections as necessary.  It'll also queue up output and send it out
as it can from any of your socket writes.

It's a little different coding model when you write your top level
code using the library (since effectively you are writing small hooks
to either keep the library fed with more data to send, or to drain
data as it is received), but it can be very effective.

As to whether you can support 1000 simultaneous connections
(particularly dependent on how much data is flowing simultaneously)
will depend on a lot of things (including your OS/kernel, memory,
network stack and so on), but I do think it's technically feasible.

You may also want to look at the open/free medusa framework
(http://www.nightmare.com/medusa) which is layered on top of asyncore
to provide services such as an HTTP server.  If not useful directly, at
least it will provide some examples of coding to asyncore.

--
-- David
-- 
/-----------------------------------------------------------------------\
 \               David Bolen            \   E-mail: db3l at fitlinxx.com  /
  |             FitLinxx, Inc.            \  Phone: (203) 708-5192    |
 /  860 Canal Street, Stamford, CT  06902   \  Fax: (203) 316-5150     \
\-----------------------------------------------------------------------/


From nas at arctrix.com  Fri Jan  5 19:04:50 2001
From: nas at arctrix.com (Neil Schemenauer)
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 16:04:50 -0800
Subject: failed fork with latest 2.4 linux kernel?
In-Reply-To: <3A56B959.F1647198@SPAM.sgi.com>; from sandeen.NO@SPAM.sgi.com on Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 12:21:13AM -0600
References: <3A56B959.F1647198@SPAM.sgi.com>
Message-ID: <20010105160449.C6016@glacier.fnational.com>

On Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 12:21:13AM -0600, Eric Sandeen wrote:
> Everything worked at -test11, but with -prerelease and 2.4.0, we get
> this dump (the execWithCapture function is at the end of this message). 
> This will fail for any arv.  The kernel version seems to be the only
> variable here... any ideas?

You might want to try running the Python test suite.  It should be
installed in the Python lib directory under test.  You want to
run the script regrtest.py.  Also, it would be helpful to know 
what version of Python you are using.  I am running Linux 2.4.0
and have no problems with 1.5.2 and the CVS version of Python.

  Neil



From bkc at Murkworks.com  Tue Jan 16 10:34:39 2001
From: bkc at Murkworks.com (Brad Clements)
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 10:34:39 -0500
Subject: Python and Industry, IBM I'm afraid
References: <3A63D9E8.F9B74ACE@mjs400.co.uk> <mailman.979631000.28993.python-list@python.org> <941c14$dok$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <3A642C9F.58E02F23@mjs400.co.uk>
Message-ID: <0PZ86.124$Lm2.8536@news.clarkson.edu>

6 months ago I rattled several doors at IBM to see if they'd sponsor a port
of Python to AS/400 (that is, spare me a few bucks and a machine to do the
port).

I never was able to make the necessary connections and gave up.

Meanwhile, I did finish the port of Python 1.5.2 and Zope to NetWare, but
Novell isn't interested in sponsoring that either so I'm stuck trying to
figure out how to recoup the cost. Don't get mad at me, but I'm a poor
programmer with a family to feed and just can't spare much time on non
billable stuff even though I absolutely love Python :-(



--
Brad Clements,
bkc at murkworks.com
"Pete" <p at mjs400.co.uk> wrote in message
news:3A642C9F.58E02F23 at mjs400.co.uk...

> Honestly Simon! I do have an old, working version of JPython on my
> account on virtual400.com :) THAT was easy.
> More importantly though, if I can put to one side the 11 years spent
> coding for Business (the horror...the horror...), and get further into
> debt, and stay fatherly, and get hold of a C compiler, perhaps it will
> be a good challenge to make the first EBCDICy Python Port, but I think
> brighter, fitter, younger guys can do it before the end of the century.
>
> Given Industry/IBM is a fact that hasn't changed, and won't change in a
> hurry: what's next?
>
> --Pete




From fredrik at effbot.org  Wed Jan  3 17:03:53 2001
From: fredrik at effbot.org (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 22:03:53 GMT
Subject: Iterating over multiple lists (a newbie question)
References: <3a539f3a.445366109@localhost>
Message-ID: <dlN46.3534$Qb7.441835@newsb.telia.net>

Victor Muslin wrote:
> I would like something like this (which obviously does not work):
>
> for one,two in list1, list2:
>    print one,two

in 2.0, use "zip":

    for one, two in zip(list1, list2):
        ...

in earlier versions, you can use range or map(None):

    for i in range(len(list1)):
        one, two = list1[i], list2[i]

    for one, two in map(None, list1, list2):
        ...

hope this helps!

cheers /F

<!-- (the eff-bot guide to) the standard python library:
http://www.pythonware.com/people/fredrik/librarybook.htm
-->




From sill at localhost.kitenet.net  Tue Jan 16 20:51:43 2001
From: sill at localhost.kitenet.net (Oldayz)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 01:51:43 GMT
Subject: Best way to learn Python ?
References: <aa8a6t895h8l3k2q7nmhd25oh6m7haulj9@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <PU696.3998$KE.199382@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>

On Tue, 16 Jan 2001 20:38:10 -0800, J5 <johnny5s_alive at hotmail.com> wrote:
>No schools teach it, so what books do you recommend ?
>
>Also, what are some cool programming projects I could do ?
>
>What do you guys write with python ?
>
>J5 

I personally read the tutorial on python.org, got the ORA programming python
book (although I don't like it for some reason) and write small programs I
need.. for instance, I needed to read some e-books but text files with really
long lines are hard to read in vim so I wrote a small python script that splits
them up into 80 char ones.. then I wrote a small script that autostarts screen-
saver every 10 minutes unless 'no screensaver' flag is set (to give my eyes
some rest :-), then I wrote a small script that is a frontend to cdrecord,
cdrdao, mkisofs, to burn cds.. then I made a little script that changes back-
ground in WM randomly and is run every day from crontab.. and then the biggest
one i wrote (at ~200 lines) is a program that keeps track of how much time
I spend on a project - so that I can look at the logfile and say 'damn.. I only
worked on this 15 hours this week, I better stop being so lazy'. I'm also
planning two more things: irc client (i'm looking through pyirc to see how
things are done..) and a frontend to mpg123 that would allow me to rate songs
and play them randomly with higher rated songs having more of a chance of being
played..

So, in other words, the best way to learn is to do things that you need to
be done.. I also try to follow the newsgroup, look at the questions and
answers and learn from that.

Hope this helps.

-- 

	Andrei


From moshez at zadka.site.co.il  Sat Jan 20 14:57:59 2001
From: moshez at zadka.site.co.il (Moshe Zadka)
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 21:57:59 +0200 (IST)
Subject: [OT] Shared Libraries (was Re: Deployment woes (was: I will kill my Python))
In-Reply-To: <slrn96ipu0.oul.quinn@groat.ugcs.caltech.edu>
References: <slrn96ipu0.oul.quinn@groat.ugcs.caltech.edu>, <pr3a6.945$eI2.263837@ruti.visi.com>, <mailman.979852022.13720.python-list@python.org> <947r18$rdt$1@news.online.de> <WV0a6.745$eI2.252250@ruti.visi.com> <4DE7F9DB9399A3C1.D96FC6EFB3F2391E.88AD1775E4555FCA@lp.airnews.net> <mailman.979958548.20793.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <20010120195759.CF74AA83E@darjeeling.zadka.site.co.il>

[Moshe Zadka]
> Basically, the problem is thorny, the solution is hairy, and the only
> saving grace of Linux is that the packages have concepts of dependancies.

[Quinn Dunkan]
> How about static linking?

It solves a different problem (code reuse) -- but not the problems shared
libraries were meant to solve (less space on disk, less space in memory,
transparent upgradeability).

Since the solution is sometimes worse then the problem, sometimes
it's better to do static linking. On Windows too <wink>.

life-is-complex-ly y'rs, Z.
-- 
Moshe Zadka <sig at zadka.site.co.il>
This is a signature anti-virus. 
Please stop the spread of signature viruses!
Fingerprint: 4BD1 7705 EEC0 260A 7F21  4817 C7FC A636 46D0 1BD6



From emile at fenx.com  Fri Jan 12 12:30:29 2001
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 09:30:29 -0800
Subject: A small suggestion for Python
References: <3A5F27F7.30268D9A@erols.com>
Message-ID: <93nf0g$amfvv$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>

This follows the explicit is better than implicit concept,
so outside of adding a keyword and breaking backward
compatibility (bad things), this is probably a good thing
;-).

If such a thing were to be added, might it also be
good to raise an exception when not assigning the return
value?   If so, perhaps a nothing would not object to being
a sink hole (ala /dev/null).

---
class test:
  def mysort(self):
    "method w/o return"
  def retval(self):
    return "retval"

def retval():
  return "retval"

def mysort():
  "function w/o return"
---
y = test()
y.mysort()       # ok
??? = y.mysort() # fails
??? = y.retval() # ok
mysort()         # ok
??? = mysort()   # fails
??? = retval()   # ok

not-holding-my-breathe-le y'rs

--

Emile van Sebille
emile at fenx.com
-------------------


"Edward C. Jones" <edcjones at erols.com> wrote in message
news:3A5F27F7.30268D9A at erols.com...
> I have been programming in Python for several years. I
still
> occasionally make mistakes with functions (such as sort)
that
> return only "None". I suggest that functions like sort
should
> return either "Nothing" or nothing. "Nothing" would be
exactly
> like "None" except it can't be assigned. Whether "Nothing"
or
> nothing is used, the statement "x= y.sort()" would raise a
> run-time Exception.
>
> Thanks,
> Ed Jones
>
>






From fredrik at effbot.org  Wed Jan 31 09:01:43 2001
From: fredrik at effbot.org (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 14:01:43 GMT
Subject: BUG? Python 2.0 chokes on international characters in Unicode strings
References: <958g0k$f97$1@wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <bVUd6.10358$Qb7.1548465@newsb.telia.net>

Jurie Horneman wrote:
> Is this a known bug? (If so, AAARRGGHHH - could it really be that Python
> basically doesn't work outside of the US? Hard to believe: these characters
> are used in the Dutch language...)

it's not a bug -- it's just that there are only 127 ASCII code
points, and 40,000+ unicode characters...

> Is there some workaround? Could I convert Unicode strings to ASCII? If so,
> how?

use the encode method:

    u = any unicode string
    s = str(u) # will fail for non-ascii characters
    s = u.encode("utf-8") # will always work
    s = u.encode("iso-8859-1") # may fail for non-latin-1 characters
    s = u.encode("ascii", "ignore") # won't fail, but may lose chars
    s = u.encode("ascii", "replace") # won't fail, will replace non-ascii chars

    import locale
    # get the most likely output encoding (works on most unix,
    # windows, and macintosh installations)
    loc, enc = locale.getdefaultlocale()
    print u.encode(enc, "replace")

see
http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/string-methods.html
for more info on the encode method,

http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/module-codecs.html
for more info on codecs (including stream codecs)

Cheers /F




From s713221 at student.gu.edu.au  Thu Jan  4 02:57:58 2001
From: s713221 at student.gu.edu.au (s713221 at student.gu.edu.au)
Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 17:57:58 +1000
Subject: Calling an application from inside a python script Take 1
References: <a9V46.371$7k5.2218@newsfeed.slurp.net>
Message-ID: <3A542D06.9766A9CD@student.gu.edu.au>

> 
> My long winded question is
> how do I get python to call an external application?
> 
> If someone could point me in the right direction I would really
> appreciate it. Thanks for your time!
> 
> Chris

>>> import os
>>> os.system('echo "hello"')
hello
0
>>>

Hope that helps.

	Joal Heagney/AncientHart


From jasonic at nomadicsltd.com  Thu Jan 25 17:35:15 2001
From: jasonic at nomadicsltd.com (Jason Cunliffe)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 17:35:15 -0500
Subject: ZOPE : Zcatalog
References: <94pib3$1e2t$1@news5.isdnet.net>
Message-ID: <t71aa9t431sjd5@corp.supernews.com>

Fabien Germain <fabien.germain at campuslingua.com> wrote in message
news:94pib3$1e2t$1 at news5.isdnet.net...
> Hello,
>
> First, is there a NG only for Zope ?

Alas no. But there are very active mailing lists. [high signal to noise]

Since Digital Creation have a very feeble sense of web site
usability/design, this essential liink is buried 3 levels down at:

http://www.zope.org/Resources/MailingLists

--Jason
___________________________________________________________
Jason CUNLIFFE = NOMADICS['Interactive Art and Technology']




From sbrunning at bigfoot.com  Tue Jan 16 06:41:25 2001
From: sbrunning at bigfoot.com (Simon B.)
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 11:41:25 GMT
Subject: Python and Industry, IBM I'm afraid
References: <3A63D9E8.F9B74ACE@mjs400.co.uk> <mailman.979631000.28993.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <941c14$dok$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

In article <mailman.979631000.28993.python-list at python.org>,
  "Tim Peters" <tim.one at home.com> wrote:
> [Pete]
> > Has anyone ported Python to IBM iSeries 400?...Or is this
> > considered too much hassle, because they are big fat trucks
> > of servers - and come bundled with no GUI support (they have
> > had posix for many years)?...Or are people waiting for Linux
> > support in a logical OS partition?...Or does no one care?
>
> A Python port to platform X, regardless of X, is almost always done
by some
> user of X who wants to run Python on X, and usually working alone.
That's
> how things work in any project without revenue to pay for a port
(don't know
> whether you've used Python, but if you have and someone charged you
for it,
> you were suckered bigtime).
>
> I don't know whether there are any Python ports to IBM iSeries 400,
but, if
> there aren't, that would be because no IBM iSeries 400 user bothered
to port
> it.  In which case, you'll have to ask them what their hangup is --
or ask
> IBM why they don't think it's worth their time to make a port
available.
> Note that Intel and Microsoft cared enough to pay ActiveState for a
Win64
> Python port.  So there's more than one way to get a port done, but
the only
> way that's free requires a volunteer.

The subject of porting Python to the iSeries 400 (better known as the
AS/400) has come up before - do a deja search on 'AS/400' in c.l.py,
and you'll find quite a few hits.

Its not a case of not being bothered - I'd *love* to get Python going
on the '400. The main issue is that the AS/400 doesn't come with a C
compiler. There is a C compiler available, but it's expensive, and
almost no one has it. I've been working on the '400 for over ten years,
on dozens of sites, and I've *never* come across one with the C
compiler installed. The '400 world is dominated by various flavours of
RPG, with a scattering of COBOL. Very exciting.

Now, a Jython port is a bit more likely - the '400 comes with what I'm
told is a very good JVM. I've not had any sucess getting it to work
just yet, but I keep trying. If I ever do get it going, c.l.py will be
the first to know...

--
Simon Brunning
A rock pile ceases to be a rock pile the moment a single man
contemplates it, bearing within him the image of a cathedral. - Antoine
de Saint-Exupery


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From fredrik at effbot.org  Fri Jan 26 12:01:26 2001
From: fredrik at effbot.org (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 17:01:26 GMT
Subject: informal representation of long integers
References: <DZhc6.63$g4.22706@paloalto-snr1.gtei.net>
Message-ID: <G3ic6.9119$AH6.1487563@newsc.telia.net>

Randall Kern wrote:
> Using Python 1.5.2:
>
> >>> str(10L)
> '10L'
> >>> repr(10L)
> '10L'
>
> Just curious why the 'informal' representation of 10L
> is '10L', rather than '10'.

which one is the "informal" representation?

if you mean "str", python 1.6 and later does
what you want:

>>> str(10L)
'10'
>>> repr(10L)
'10L'

Cheers /F




From moshez at zadka.site.co.il  Mon Jan 15 08:37:12 2001
From: moshez at zadka.site.co.il (Moshe Zadka)
Date: 15 Jan 2001 07:37:12 -0600
Subject: Dr. Dobb's Python-URL! - weekly Python news and links (Jan 15)
Message-ID: <2202C3D583A4D789.DB5E306A785ABF5E.5CE0FA4DEBA805D0@lp.airnews.net>

A lot of Python software is announced this week:
    Phil Thompson announces BlackAdder, an IDE
        http://deja.com/threadmsg_ct.xp?AN=714236647
    Steve Pike announces PikiePikie, yet another WikiWiki clone
        http://deja.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=714600578
    Mark Hammond announces PyXPCOM
        http://deja.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=714704292
    Pete Shinners announces pygame
        http://deja.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=715685318
    David Allen announces a gopher client
        http://deja.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=714680975
    Tom Hazel announces some C++ modules for event-based programming
        http://deja.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=714155765

    Mark Hammond explains how to turn C++ exceptions into Python exceptions
        http://deja.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=715158611
    and clarifies win32 licensing issues
        http://deja.com/threadmsg_ct.xp?AN=714080019

    Andrew Kuchling asks about modules to read tar files
        http://deja.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=714509949
    and summarizes the answers
        http://deja.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=714633221

    Neil Schemenauer shamelessly promotes Quixote
        http://deja.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=715491037

    Amy Katherine sends an update about IPC9
        http://deja.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=714636560

    Fredrik Lundh explains why list.sort() returns None
        http://deja.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=715271948
    how to find URLs in text
        http://deja.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=714986303
    reading line-by-line in (future) Python 2.1
        http://deja.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=715622713
    and parsing broken HTML
        http://deja.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=714626763

    Alex Martelli describes an alternative way to parse broken HTML
        http://deja.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=714811428
    and explains how to call methods by name
        http://deja.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=714467730

    Erno Kussela asks how to open a ZODB database from multiple processes
        http://deja.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=714350424

    Remco Gerlich gives the easy way to find out if a string is numeric
        http://deja.com/threadmsg_ct.xp?AN=714836987

    Tim Peters answers question about pattern matching in Python
        http://deja.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=714844866

Life is not all serious at Pythonland.
    Martijn Faassen announces future PSU plans:
        http://deja.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=714114496
    Steve Holden stirs dormant conspiracy theory
        http://deja.com/threadmsg_ct.xp?AN=714907501


========================================================================

Everything you want is probably one or two clicks away in these pages:

      Python.org's Python Language Website is the traditional
      center of Pythonia
          http://www.python.org
      Notice especially the master FAQ
          http://www.python.org/doc/FAQ.html

      PythonWare complements the digest you're reading with the
      daily python url
           http://www.pythonware.com/daily  

      comp.lang.python.announce announces new Python software.  Be
      sure to scan this newly-revitalized newsgroup at least weekly.
          http://deja.com/group/comp.lang.python.announce

      Andrew Kuchling writes marvelous summaries twice a month of
      the action on the python-dev mailing list, where the future
      of Python is truly determined
	  http://www.amk.ca/python/dev

      The Vaults of Parnassus ambitiously collect Python resources
          http://www.vex.net/~x/parnassus/   

      Much of Python's real work takes place on Special-Interest Group
      mailing lists
          http://www.python.org/sigs/

      Python Consortium emerges as an independent nexus of activity
          http://www.python.org/consortium

      Cetus does much of the same
          http://www.cetus-links.de/oo_python.html

      Python FAQTS
          http://python.faqts.com/

      Python To-Do List anticipates some of Python's future direction
          http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/todo.py

      Python Journal is at work on its second issue
          http://www.pythonjournal.com

      Links2Go is a new semi-automated link collection; it's impressive
      what AI can generate
          http://www.links2go.com/search?search=python

      Archive probing trick of the trade:
          http://www.dejanews.com/dnquery.xp?QRY=&DBS=2&ST=PS&defaultOp=AND&LNG=ALL&format=threaded&showsort=date&maxhits=100&groups=comp.lang.python


Previous - (U)se the (R)esource, (L)uke! - messages are listed here:
  http://purl.org/thecliff/python/url.html
or
  http://www.dejanews.com/dnquery.xp?QRY=~g%20comp.lang.python%20Python-URL%21


Suggestions/corrections for next week's posting are always welcome.
[http://www.egroups.com/list/python-url-leads/ is hibernating.  Just
e-mail us ideas directly.]

To receive a new issue of this posting in e-mail each Monday morning,
ask <claird at neosoft.com> to subscribe.  Mention "Python-URL!".


-- The Python-URL! Team--

Dr. Dobb's Journal (http://www.ddj.com) is pleased to participate in and
sponsor the "Python-URL!" project.
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at NeoSoft.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://starbase.neosoft.com/~claird/home.html


From sholden at holdenweb.com  Fri Jan 12 13:50:24 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 13:50:24 -0500
Subject: How robust is Python ?
References: <002301c07cba$ddef9080$020000c3@node02> <005e01c07cbe$418f1360$0201a8c0@holdenweb.com> <008101c07cc5$41740d20$020000c3@node02>
Message-ID: <008d01c07cc8$86782ca0$0201a8c0@holdenweb.com>

In the example you give, the "print" statement is a part of the class
definition suite. It will therefore be executed when the class definition is
processed:

>>> class newclass:
...  print "Something"
...
Something

This feature can be used to assign class variables (shared across all
instances), because the class namespace is local at time the definition
suite is processed.

If you wanted to print something when the exception was raised, you could
put the print statement in the __init__ method of the class: when an
exception is rasied, an instance is created:

>>> class WeirdException:
...  def __init__(self):
...   print "Weird stuff, man"
...
>>> raise WeirdException
Weird stuff, man
Traceback (innermost last):
  File "<interactive input>", line 1, in ?
WeirdException: <__main__.WeirdException instance at 016EC35C>

You can, of course, use *instances* of your exception class rather than the
class itself to raise exceptions.  You can either do this by simply using an
instance call directly, or you can add a single argument or a tuple (which
will become the argument list) to the "raise" statement:

>>> class ParamException:
...  def __init__(self, file="Unknown", line="not given"):
...   self.file = file
...   self.line = line
...
This allows you to pick up the exception and handle it using its methods and
attributes. This example doesn't use any methods, just attributes, but it
should give you the idea.
>>> try:
...  raise ParamException("BigFile.txt", 23)
... except ParamException, p:
...  print "Except: error in file", p.file, "at line", p.line
...
Except: error in file BigFile.txt at line 23

Sorry about the tabbing in this mail.

regards
 Steve


----- Original Message -----
From: "Sandipan Gangopadhyay" <sandipan at vsnl.com>
To: "Steve Holden" <sholden at holdenweb.com>
Sent: Friday, January 12, 2001 1:27 PM
Subject: Re: How robust is Python ?


> Absolutely. Its superfluous to catch AnyOldNameILike separately if I
intend
> to do nothing different about it !
>
> I would however, prefer your suggestion of creating a special exception
than
> to (ab)use an existing one. Just doesnt seem right.
>
> I am curious about something, though. What would happen if I replaced pass
> in -
>
> class AnyOldNameILike:
>     print "Hi there"
>
> Ie, if/when is this print executed ?
>
> My thanks and regards,
>
> Sandipan
>





From bowman at montana.com  Mon Jan 29 09:41:12 2001
From: bowman at montana.com (bowman)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 07:41:12 -0700
Subject: Books
References: <3a757ac1$1@netnews.web.de>
Message-ID: <hhfd6.6061$Uo2.20161@newsfeed.slurp.net>

Volker Jahns <volker.jahns at web.de> wrote in message
news:3a757ac1$1 at netnews.web.de...
>
> Second: I searchin links about PHYTON and fpound not very much. The german
web-
> addr is dead and behind the .org have nothing to do (I think) with the
language...

search for PYTHON and you will have greater success.




From teep at inet.co.th  Thu Jan 18 04:21:43 2001
From: teep at inet.co.th (Prateep Siamwalla)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 16:21:43 +0700
Subject: This is my first program in Python
References: <3a66a585.268350144@news.tcn.net>
Message-ID: <946cej$vuu$1@news.inet.co.th>

I tried your program on my PythonWin editor, and it worked for me.  What
error message did you get?

contents of file c:\blank\globs.txt:
one:alpha
two:beta
three:gamma


>>> def trythisout():
...  f = open(r'c:\blank\globs.txt','r')
...  for line in f.readlines():
...      (first,second) = string.split(line,":",1)
...      print first
...  f.close()
...
>>> trythisout()
one
two
three

did you get a "ValueError: unpack list of wrong size" error?  If you did,
then one of your input lines probably is missing a ":"

hope this helps.

teep



Richard Zilavec <rzilavec at tcn.net> wrote in message
news:3a66a585.268350144 at news.tcn.net...
>
> I've spent the last few weeks trying to find a good book on Python.
> Seems that most stores don't carry a large selection, however I found
> The Quick Python Book..  The material seems to flow in the right
> direction and the fonts are easy on the eyes.
>
> Anyways, I wrote my first program but was stumped on readline().  I
> could get the first line, but not the rest of the file.  I tried
> searching python.org and could not find an example.... well here it
> is:
>
> import string
> file = open("/tmp/globs", 'r')
> for line in file.readlines():
>         (first,second) = string.split(line,':',1)
>         print first
> file.close()
>
> This was my first attempt, which looks like it should work but failed:
> invalid syntax.  Is this not possible?
> while line = file.readlines():
>
> Am I using string.split properly?
>
> I was quite happy with how easy this was to put together, I'm just not
> sure if its totally correct.
>
> --
>  Richard Zilavec
>  rzilavec at tcn.net




From bencr at bigpond.com  Sun Jan 21 04:56:30 2001
From: bencr at bigpond.com (Ben)
Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 20:56:30 +1100
Subject: Traversing A Directory For Files
Message-ID: <p9xa6.6875$65.40110@newsfeeds.bigpond.com>

Hi,

I am looking for examples of a recusive Python algorithm to traverse a
directory and all subdirectories for files and return them to a list for
further processing.

I have something written already ... but it doesn't appear to be that
eloquant

Thanks In Advance





From csrabak at uol.com.br  Wed Jan 24 20:05:39 2001
From: csrabak at uol.com.br (Cesar Rabak)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 23:05:39 -0200
Subject: beep again
References: <5251-3A6E5B71-16@storefull-163.iap.bryant.webtv.net> <94n5td$gu1$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <3A6F7BE3.98CFC640@uol.com.br>


Mark Hammond wrote:
> 
> In article <5251-3A6E5B71-16 at storefull-163.iap.bryant.webtv.net>,
>   clickron at webtv.net wrote:
> > Thanks for answering my last question. I get the beep now, but no
> matter
> > what numbers I put in for the frequency and duration it doesn't
> change.
> 
> The Python test suite has the following:
> 
> import winsound
> for i in range(100, 2000, 100):
>     winsound.Beep(i, 75)
> print "Hopefully you heard some sounds increasing in frequency!"
> 
> This does the "right thing" on both Python 2.0 and 2.1a1
> 

Well, in ActivePython 2.0, build 202, it only runs a ding.wav from
windows. (Win98 SE).


From chris at chrullrich.de  Sun Jan 14 16:50:35 2001
From: chris at chrullrich.de (Christian Ullrich)
Date: 14 Jan 2001 22:50:35 +0100
Subject: Threaded server doesn't run its threads
Message-ID: <x7vgrhg5w4.fsf@christian.chrullrich.de>

Hello all!

I am writing a small server to remotely control (run and monitor) an
application. Because this is my first encounter with networks, I
decided to use Python, as it appears to be rather easy to use.

Now I am facing a problem in the implementation. My server is supposed
to run the app and monitor its output, and at the same time respond to
status queries, so I think I can't let the MyRequestHandler block.

I read a bit about select, but i did not understand it, and I want to
get some working code in the _near_ future. So I chose the
ThreadingTCPServer.

But it doesn't work. The server script starts and runs. When I telnet
to the port, I get a connection, but no response from the server
(MyRequestHandler.handle() seems not to be called). If I now Ctrl-C
the server script, handle() is called, but if I enter a command via
telnet, the script simply terminates, rather than handling the
command, as it's supposed to do.

The same code, just using TCPServer instead of ThreadingTCPServer,
does not show this behavior, the forking server works fine as well.

I am using Python 2.0 on Linux, but it fails similarly on NT.

Might there be a problem with the underlying OS support?

Because this post is already quite long, I am not including example
source. If you need it, please tell me.

-- 
Christian Ullrich		     Registrierter Linux-User #125183

"Sie k?nnen nach R'ed'mond fliegen -- aber Sie werden sterben"


From DanielK at jBASE.com  Mon Jan 15 17:42:52 2001
From: DanielK at jBASE.com (Daniel Klein)
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 14:42:52 -0800
Subject: Determining names of instances
Message-ID: <e7L86.554$KD3.238565@typhoon.aracnet.com>

A question I hope has a simple answer. Take the following simple class and
instance

    class foobar:
        pass

    foo = foobar()

The question is, is there a way for the object 'foo' to know that its name
is 'foo'?

Daniel Klein




From jianchen at my-deja.com  Mon Jan  8 09:15:40 2001
From: jianchen at my-deja.com (jianchen at my-deja.com)
Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2001 14:15:40 GMT
Subject: zombie question
References: <93c19g$5k7$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <mailman.978959594.8297.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <93ci26$hog$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

sure!

the parent process looks like this??
------------------------------------------------------------
serv=socket.socket(socket.AF_INET,socket.SOCK_STREAM)

try:
	serv.bind((HOST,PORT))
except:
	print "Can't bind to local port %s" % PORT
	sys.exit(-1)
serv.listen(5)
signal.signal(signal.SIGCHLD,handler)
while 1:
	conn,addr=serv.accept()
	pid=os.fork()
	if pid<0:	myerr('Can\'t fork new process')
	if pid==0:	# the child process
		serv.close(??
		proxy(conn,addr)	# the real proxy
		sys.exit(0)
	conn.close()
------------------------------------------------------------

The handler is :

def handler(signum,frame):
 	pid,excode=os.waitpid(-1,os.WNOHANG)
	return

------------------------------------------------------------

the most strange thing is that the handler is never called!
any advice. thanks!



Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From syver at NOSPAMcyberwatcher.com  Thu Jan 18 15:18:54 2001
From: syver at NOSPAMcyberwatcher.com (Syver Enstad)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 21:18:54 +0100
Subject: Python ActiveX Scripting Engine raising Unicode errors
References: <Wad96.5165$DI.56764@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com> <LAd96.32293$Q06.181526@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <947j84$503$1@troll.powertech.no>

> >
> This is too weird: I just renamed pySQL.py, checked that there is no
pySQL.*
> file *anywhere* on my disks, and the ASP page still claims to be seeing an
> error in it!

In my experience imported modules stay in memory until you unload the IIS
application or restart the w3svc service. You can also make an asp page with
reload statements for the relevant modules as long as this asp page is
situated in the same application.

> Clearly some weird cacheing going on here.

Yes!

Regarding the unicode error, you probably try to process characters outside
the 128 ascii characters, is it possible that some international characters
have been entered into the text field?





From joejava at dragonat.net  Fri Jan  5 09:06:21 2001
From: joejava at dragonat.net (Joel Ricker)
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 09:06:21 -0500
Subject: Migrating to perl?
References: <3Fa56.4580$of7.216286@news1.atl> <933fa1$j2i$1@newshost.accu.uu.nl> <ggd56.4652$of7.222552@news1.atl> <slrn95b3bf.g1f.grey@teleute.rpglink.com>
Message-ID: <Wzk56.811$4Z.64489@news2.atl>

Steve Lamb wrote in message ...
>On Fri, 5 Jan 2001 00:47:32 -0500, Joel Ricker <joejava at dragonat.net>
wrote:
>    No braces for blocks and intention matters.  For example...

[*snip* Program example*]
>    ...do two different things.  The former will print foo and bar on two
>separate lines only if something is true.  The latter will pring foo only
if
>something is true but will always print bar.


After seeing examples of this, I'm don't think I'll mind that.  I took a
FORTRAN class once and which used quite a bit of white space for its control
structs but I think it won't be so bad with Python.  Especially no more
counting curley braces to find where the logic error is.

Joel





From moshez at zadka.site.co.il  Fri Jan  5 22:17:48 2001
From: moshez at zadka.site.co.il (Moshe Zadka)
Date: Sat,  6 Jan 2001 05:17:48 +0200 (IST)
Subject: How robust is Python ?
In-Reply-To: <9354f9$vbi$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
References: <9354f9$vbi$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, <LOBBJMHOIFOLFIPFANHJAEJFCHAA.zope@TheWebsons.com> <mailman.978716227.31692.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <20010106031748.BF2CDA84F@darjeeling.zadka.site.co.il>

On Fri, 05 Jan 2001 18:40:41 GMT, rturpin at my-deja.com wrote:

> That's an interesting comment. We're planning an "always
> up" application, that launches at boot, runs until next
> restart or shutdown, and does a lot of work in between.
> I'd like to use Python. I've been working under the
> assumption that it is adequately robust for this purpose.
> 
> Does anyone want to caution me on this?

You might have misunderstood my English. X is just as T as Y means
T(x) >= T(y). Python is vey robust. However, personally I wouldn't
trust *any* language for that. Have a every-minute cron which resurrects
it if it isn't up? That means you're as stable as either Python or
the OS infrastructure, whichever is better.
-- 
Moshe Zadka <sig at zadka.site.co.il>
This is a signature anti-virus. 
Please stop the spread of signature viruses!



From fredrik at effbot.org  Mon Jan 15 01:31:04 2001
From: fredrik at effbot.org (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 06:31:04 GMT
Subject: manipulating data
References: <93ttmd$j04$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <IOw86.6215$Qb7.909266@newsb.telia.net>

ibrewale_2000 at yahoo.com wrote:
> I have a Pmw/Tkinter program I am trying to write (just learning), in a
> text entry box I can retrieve numbers entered into it and print it like
> this...
>
> print self.amount.get()
>
> But I want to assign the number I retrieve with get, into a variable,
> like:
>
> b = self.amount.get()
>
> but this doesnt work.

"doesn't work" as in "TypeError: can't multiply sequence
with non-int"?

If so, Python's trying to say that you're mixing data types.

> How do I put it into the variable??

assuming "self.amount" is an Entry widget (or something
compatible), try:

    b = float(self.amount.get())
    b = b * 0.0875
    ...

Cheers /F




From jafo-pythonlist at tummy.com  Sun Jan 21 01:57:01 2001
From: jafo-pythonlist at tummy.com (Sean Reifschneider)
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 23:57:01 -0700
Subject: peer-to-peer in python
In-Reply-To: <945ngf$731$1@nnrp1.deja.com>; from peter@peermetrics.com on Thu, Jan 18, 2001 at 03:21:56AM +0000
References: <945ngf$731$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <20010120235701.E20336@tummy.com>

On Thu, Jan 18, 2001 at 03:21:56AM +0000, peter at peermetrics.com wrote:
>I am looking for good Python developers to help me out with a peer-to-
>peer system (written entirely in Python.)  We have a working demo /

You'll probably get a better response if you say how much you're paying
for people who accept this job.  Hmm...  On the other hand, maybe you
won't.  ;-)

Sean
-- 
 This mountain is PURE SNOW!  Do you know what the street value of this
 mountain is!?!                -- Better Off Dead
Sean Reifschneider, Inimitably Superfluous <jafo at tummy.com>
tummy.com - Linux Consulting since 1995. Qmail, KRUD, Firewalls, Python



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Wed Jan 10 12:09:39 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 18:09:39 +0100
Subject: embedding python in C++
References: <934r1a$pda$1@troll.powertech.no> <93a3lp01kpg@news1.newsguy.com> <93b02a$tr8$1@troll.powertech.no> <93cq6n0186t@news1.newsguy.com> <YmE66.99$k25.1060@news1.oke.nextra.no> <93fgim04oc@news1.newsguy.com> <93g8sp$pcj$1@troll.powertech.no> <93hgeq014d3@news2.newsguy.com> <mMZ66.1325$k25.19052@news1.oke.nextra.no>
Message-ID: <93i52v01qim@news2.newsguy.com>

"Syver Enstad" <syver at NOSPAMcyberwatcher.com> wrote in message
news:mMZ66.1325$k25.19052 at news1.oke.nextra.no...
>
> "Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:93hgeq014d3 at news2.newsguy.com...
> > Just reiterating an important point: this is true for *instances*,
> > where such after-the-fact tagging is implemented; it may not be for
> > a typical C-coded type, unless care is taken to let the caller set
> > (and re-read) arbitrary attributes.
>
> This is done by implementing setattr so that it assigns values to python
> dictionary that is a member of the C type, right?

Yes, and getattr accordingly; or you can just watch for the 'softspace'
name and keep one bit to record that, if all you need is fileobject
emulation for print-statement purposes.


Alex





From romberg at smaug.fsl.noaa.gov  Wed Jan 24 12:35:21 2001
From: romberg at smaug.fsl.noaa.gov (Mike Romberg)
Date: 24 Jan 2001 10:35:21 -0700
Subject: python-2.1 function attributes
Message-ID: <ul3snm8dfae.fsf@smaug.fsl.noaa.gov>

  I've been messing around with python-2.1a1 and have discovered the
new feature 'function attributes'.  The project I'm currently working
on can really use this feature.  The feature itself would be much more
useful if one could predefine a set of attributes with the function
definition.  This is one of the things mentioned in the 'future
directions' sections of pep 232 

http://python.sourceforge.net/peps/pep-0232.html

  So... I guess I'd like to put in one 'yes' vote for this extension :).


Mike Romberg (romberg at fsl.noaa.gov)


From dalke at acm.org  Mon Jan 22 20:33:03 2001
From: dalke at acm.org (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 18:33:03 -0700
Subject: How do I know all thrown exceptions of a function?
References: <mailman.980206644.31124.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <94imre$7dd$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net>

Delaney, Timothy wrote:
>Personally, I think Java's view of exceptions (almost) makes
>sense.

Actually, I disagree.  Consider a function which numerically
integrates another function over a given range:

def integrate(func, x_min, x_max):
  ...
  will compute func(x) for several values of x between [x_min, x_max]
  ...

What exceptions does "integrate" throw, given that "func" can
throw anything?  As I understand the Java way, you must declare
all of the exceptions thrown by "func", which most people will
take to mean it only throws a math error (divide by zero, overflow,
etc.).  Once the "func" exceptions are known, the "integrate"
ones are also known.

However, suppose func is very involved and I decide to use a cache:

class MyCache:
  def __init__(self, func, cache_file = "func.cache"):
    # open the file as a dbm; don't know the args but this is
    self.cache = gdbm.open(cache_file, "rw")  # close enough
    self.func = func
  def __call__(self, x):
    y = self.cache.get(x)
    if y is not None:
       return y
    y = self.func(x)
    self.cache[x] = y
    return y

Suppose also that the file system breaks, or gets full, so the
dbm interface no longer works.  This throws a dbm error.  What
is the best way to handle this unexpected exception in the
Java way?

I actually don't know.  As far as I can tell, the only way to
do it is let integrate raise a specific "CannotIntegrate"
exception, then implement a wrapper, like for MyCache, which
converts any non-numeric exception in the CannotIntegrate
exception, as in

  try:
    y = self.func(x)
  except (DivideByZeroException, other expected math errors ...):
    raise
  except (SystemExit, KeyboardInterrupt):  # allow forced breaks
    raise
  except:
    .. convert to a CannotIntegrate exception ..
  return y

To me, this is ugly and error prone.  (Is this really what
you need to do for Java - the Feb. Dr. Dobb's comparison
between Java and C# suggests so.)  Thus, I would rather write
my code to be exception safe, in that it gracefully accepts
any exception, then to declare every exception type.

                    Andrew
                    dalke at acm.org





From erno-news at erno.iki.fi  Mon Jan 22 19:12:31 2001
From: erno-news at erno.iki.fi (Erno Kuusela)
Date: 23 Jan 2001 02:12:31 +0200
Subject: Replacing control characters.
References: <94ifec$ggt$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <kusnmb86ts.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>

In article <94ifec$ggt$1 at nnrp1.deja.com>, johnvert at my-deja.com writes:

| I want to remove all of these characters, but since
| it's not an actual caret (^) and a letter M, but the *Ctrl* character
| C-M I don't know how to refer to them in a regexp.  How can I?

C-M would be '\x0d'. you can look at the ascii(7) manual page
for the codes, or type something like print hex(ord('^M')) at
the prompt. the way to insert a literal ^M there is to first
type ^V to prevent readline or the tty driver from meddling with it.

| Also, what would be the most efficient way to do this in Python
| (e.g. use regexp functions to maybe module string will do?)

string.translate()/string.maketrans() probably.

  -- erno


From tim at degree.ath.cx  Fri Jan 26 20:54:07 2001
From: tim at degree.ath.cx (Tim Hammerquist)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 01:54:07 GMT
Subject: .cgi or .cgp or .py or ?
References: <mailman.980188705.18836.python-list@python.org> <slrn971mq7.94m.tim@degree.ath.cx> <94reu2$8uh$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <slrn974aq9.eav.tim@degree.ath.cx>

Hamish Lawson <hamish_lawson at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> Tim Hammerquist wrote:
> 
> > You can at least take comfort in the fact that the
> > mass majority of P*** CGI scripts have either no extension or .cgi and
> > therefore do not "promote" their mother-language in the way you
> > described.
> 
> However, if you have scripts in various languages at your site, using
> the extension of .py may make it easier at some future date to migrate
> your Python scripts to being handled by something other than the
> universal CGI handler - for example, the Apache mod_python handler.

If I and my equals can't do a `head -3 scriptname` to find out what language
it is, we have many more problems than I thought.  =)

Besides, not having an extension at all allows a security feature via
obfuscation.  Remember Apaches trick of:

http://domainname.com/subdirectory/a-name/someword.html

...where a-name is actually the script?  If visitors think it's an html
file as it appears to be, they will be much less likely to try to hack
it.  Is this as feasible as a security measure thus?:

http://domain.com/stuff/a-name.py/someword.html

Just some considerations.  As I said in another post, use whichever
extension works best in any given situation.

HTH

-- 
-Tim Hammerquist <timmy at cpan.org>

Legend -- a lie that has attained the dignity of age.
	-- H. L. Mencken


From embed at NO_SPAM_PLEASE.geocities.com  Tue Jan  9 14:58:59 2001
From: embed at NO_SPAM_PLEASE.geocities.com (Warren Postma)
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 14:58:59 -0500
Subject: Should I join the PSA if it's "no longer relevant"?
Message-ID: <e6K66.1478$Oe.8826@tor-nn1.netcom.ca>

I have a Python port (for ETS) that I'd like to place on the web somewhere,
preferably on Starship.python.net.

I have nothing against joining the PSA, but on the PSA web page I read:

> The PSA no longer serves a real purpose, now that the Python development
> team no longer works for CNRI. The information about memership below is
> no longer relevant, but lack of time prevents us from rewriting this
webpage
> to fully reflect reality.

So, here's the question, do I join PSA still, to get a page on Starship, or
can I get a page
on Starship, without joining the PSA?   How do we contribute to Python
development?

What do I do?!

Warren Postma
Python-ETS developer





From c.ullrich at vulkantechnic.de  Mon Jan 15 05:12:49 2001
From: c.ullrich at vulkantechnic.de (c.ullrich at vulkantechnic.de)
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 10:12:49 GMT
Subject: Threaded server doesn't run its threads
References: <x7vgrhg5w4.fsf@christian.chrullrich.de>
Message-ID: <93uieu$2ll$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

* Christian Ullrich <chris at chrullrich.de> wrote:

> But it doesn't work. The server script starts and runs. When I telnet
> to the port, I get a connection, but no response from the server
> (MyRequestHandler.handle() seems not to be called). If I now Ctrl-C
> the server script, handle() is called, but if I enter a command via
> telnet, the script simply terminates, rather than handling the
> command, as it's supposed to do.

I tried it on two more machines, one Linux, one NT, there it
all works just fine. I'm confused now.

> Might there be a problem with the underlying OS support?

Now I think this is the probable cause. Could someone please
list the required software to get thread support working?

Thank you.


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From warrickb at my-deja.com  Wed Jan 31 06:30:37 2001
From: warrickb at my-deja.com (warrickb at my-deja.com)
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 11:30:37 GMT
Subject: Wrapping up a C++ class
References: <954496$ues$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <9546rv01ahd@news2.newsguy.com> <9565q3$nnh$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <Fkxd6.9841$Qb7.1506259@newsb.telia.net> <956shd0149r@news2.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <958t0t$2vc$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

But be careful not to confuse them with people who understand C++ and
_C++_ but are quite rightly content to code inbetween.


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From xyzmats at laplaza.org  Wed Jan 17 09:13:23 2001
From: xyzmats at laplaza.org (Mats Wichmann)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 14:13:23 GMT
Subject: Curses module for Python 2.0 for Windows NT
References: <mailman.979719258.23519.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3a65a767.3665680@news.laplaza.org>

On Wed, 17 Jan 2001 09:23:42 +0100, jurgen.defurne at philips.com wrote:

>Dear all,
>
>I am busy automating tasks across some Windows NT workstations, where
>I control another program (Continuus/CM, if any one knows that).
>Unfortunately, that control is not that easy. Ihave built a GUI interface, 
>but I am not really satisfied with it, so I want to simplify it somewhat so that
>it can run in a DOS box using curses. Is there a curses add-on available
>for the Win32 binaries ? It sure isn't part of the distribution I am using,
>which is still the BeOpen version of Python 2.0

Problem is not with Python, but with missing the piece that the curses
module depends on: curses itself.

I haven't seen anything recently that indicates curses-on-Windows
available cleanly.  There was a console application noted here not too
long ago that might be usable; the GNU project page for curses
indicates that a solid Windows port is still a whishlist item.
Nonetheless, vim works very well on Windows so someone out there has
presumably done the necessary work.


Mats Wichmann

(Anti-spam stuff: to reply remove the "xyz" from the
address xyzmats at laplaza.org. Not that it helps much...)


From rwklee at home.com  Wed Jan 24 21:04:17 2001
From: rwklee at home.com (Rick Lee)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 02:04:17 GMT
Subject: Tkinter vs wxPython: your opinions?
Message-ID: <3A6F899F.E164F628@home.com>

It has to be cross platform between Linux and Windows, so it  seems that
my choices are Tkinter and wxPython.

Your experience, thoughts, opinion, on the relative merits and pitfalls
of each?

My particular case:  A GUI that has 5 windows max., will incorporate a
xmlrpc client, will have a python object browser, being able to build
data entry screens on the fly from a description of an object's
attributes, programmer not familiar with either toolkit.

Thanks in advance.

- Rick Lee



From dsh8290 at rit.edu  Thu Jan 25 14:18:30 2001
From: dsh8290 at rit.edu (D-Man)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 14:18:30 -0500
Subject: python-2.1 function attributes
In-Reply-To: <004001c086dd$f2d40710$f05aa8c0@lslp7o.int.lsl.co.uk>; from tony@lsl.co.uk on Thu, Jan 25, 2001 at 02:48:58PM +0000
References: <94ng4r$gin$1@animus.fel.iae.nl> <004001c086dd$f2d40710$f05aa8c0@lslp7o.int.lsl.co.uk>
Message-ID: <20010125141830.B2678@harmony.cs.rit.edu>

On Thu, Jan 25, 2001 at 02:48:58PM +0000, Tony J Ibbs (Tibs) wrote:
| Decent syntax for this is obviously hard (else the Pythonlabs people and
| their cohorts would already have gotten one). But...
| 

Has anyone suggested a javadoc-like syntax before?

ex:

>>>def f() :
        """f() -> return value

           Other comments here

           @newattribute value_for_new_atribute
        """

>>>print f.__doc__
f() -> return value

Other comments here
>>>print f.__attributes__["newattribute"]
value_for_new_attribute
>>>

As I tried to show above, the extra stuff would be removed from the
__doc__ attribute, and instead placed into it's own proper attribute.

I don't recall the new attributes' names and the exact way of
accessing them off the top of my head right now, so I apologize since
I probably got it wrong.

Just a thought...
-D




From skip at mojam.com  Sat Jan  6 15:47:23 2001
From: skip at mojam.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2001 14:47:23 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Migrating to perl?
In-Reply-To: <937qj001qms@news1.newsguy.com>
References: <3Fa56.4580$of7.216286@news1.atl>
	<mailman.978670867.31055.python-list@python.org>
	<V%c56.4648$of7.221797@news1.atl>
	<BLj56.3858$XZ5.132068@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com>
	<6Nk56.822$4Z.64804@news2.atl>
	<934nse02oal@news2.newsguy.com>
	<3A571F1E.2D25E978@python.net>
	<937qj001qms@news1.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <14935.33883.932341.423251@beluga.mojam.com>

    "Thomas A. Bryan" <tbryan at python.net> wrote:
    >> That's funny.  Although there *is* more than one way to do this in
    >> Python, Python users don't seem to care for exercises in finding and
    >> displaying "neat tricks" in Python.

Yeah we do.  We generally disguise it as an exercise in speeding up someone
else's code that runs too slow... ;-)

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at mojam.com)
Support the Mojam.com Affiliates Program: http://www.mojam.com/affl/
(847)971-7098



From andreas.voegele at gmx.de  Wed Jan 24 18:08:32 2001
From: andreas.voegele at gmx.de (Andreas Voegele)
Date: 25 Jan 2001 00:08:32 +0100
Subject: windows, python, gtk
References: <94nd0r$o0v$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <87bsswtuof.fsf@columbus.voegele.local>

> I'm looking for the gtk toolkit for windows to use with python 2.0 for
> windows, and am having trouble finding it. Any ideas?

Look at http://www.hans.breuer.org/ports/ and subscribe to the pygtk
mailing list at http://www.daa.com.au/mailman/listinfo/pygtk.


From jpl at global.co.za  Tue Jan 23 18:33:38 2001
From: jpl at global.co.za (James Lockley)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 01:33:38 +0200
Subject: Using python to call .bat files
Message-ID: <94l44i$10km$1@news.adamastor.ac.za>

> "James" <jpl at global.co.za> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
> > am hoping to use a python script to control a process that at the moment
> > is run by a set of 10 windows batch files.

> import os
> return_code = os.system ('c:\\your\\batch\\file.bat')
>
> If you need to get the output of any of these programs take a look at
> os.popen (filename)

i've been trying os.popen, but it doesn't wait for the set of processes
controlled by the batch file to finish before starting the next
each batch relies on the results from the previous one, so i need the one to
complete before the next starts...


thanks in advance
james

(using python2.0 on winnt4)

this is my best attempt so far...

# calls  batch files
# each bat echoes 'JOB COMPLETE' on finishing; trying to use this as cue
# to start next

import os,string,sys

extcalls=['pyform1.bat','pyreaction.bat']

workpath='D:\\work\\new\\'
for call in extcalls:
        path=os.path.join(workpath,call)
        list=os.popen(path).readlines()
        for line in list:
            if string.find(line,'COMPLETE')>-1:
                    print line
                    continue
       print path




From torkil at fast.no  Mon Jan  8 08:39:37 2001
From: torkil at fast.no (Torkil Grindstein)
Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2001 14:39:37 +0100
Subject: How to set up an XML-RPC server (newbie)
References: <3A59B00B.4CB407D3@fast.no> <h$hZIgAp5bW6Ew2C@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3A59C319.E878838C@fast.no>

> for simplicity you should try F Lundh/Pythonware's
> http://www.pythonware.com/downloads/xmlrpc-0.9.8-990621.zip

Thank you for the quick answer.

But still I wonder...

The zip-package contains three .py-files. I've been trying to
run them in different orders, but I get a series of error
messages anyways. (And yes, I've outcommented the betty-server
line, and uncommented the localhost-server line.)

Here is an example.
First, I run xmlrpcserver.py, then xmlrpclib.py:
This yields :

import: Unable to grab the mouse.
import: Unable to read X window image ().
import: Missing an image file name.
import: Unable to grab the mouse.
import: Unable to read X window image ().
import: Missing an image file name.
import: Unable to grab the mouse.
import: Unable to read X window image ().
import: Missing an image file name.
import: Unable to grab the mouse.
import: Unable to read X window image ().
import: Missing an image file name.
import: Unable to grab the mouse.
import: Unable to read X window image ().
import: Missing an image file name.
./xmlrpc_handler.py: class: command not found
./xmlrpc_handler.py: line 16: syntax error near unexpected token `(s'
./xmlrpc_handler.py: line 16: `	def match (self, request):'

Am I stupid?
-- 
Torkil Grindstein                 Mail:  Torkil.Grindstein at fast.no
System Architect                  Web:   http://www.fast.no
Fast Search & Transfer ASA        Phone: +47 21 60 11 90
Gr?nnegata 80, Pb 571             Fax:   +47 77 69 66 89
NO-9261 Troms?, NORWAY            Mob:   +47 98 06 61 38

Try FAST Search: http://www.alltheweb.com


From dsh8290 at rit.edu  Thu Jan 11 00:25:50 2001
From: dsh8290 at rit.edu (D-Man)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 00:25:50 -0500
Subject: HTML embeded with python
In-Reply-To: <MPG.14c7bd1a9ff02ee1989689@news.hutch.com.au>; from derek@realware.com.au on Thu, Jan 11, 2001 at 12:53:22PM +1000
References: <MPG.14c7bd1a9ff02ee1989689@news.hutch.com.au>
Message-ID: <20010111002550.D15770@dman.rh.rit.edu>

This is a very popular subject lately,  check the archives to see how
many threads there have been over the last couple of days.

Try Poor Man's Zope (http://pmz.sourceforge.net) or PyHTML (check the
announce list archives, posted by Jeff Epler).  Another choice is PSP
[Python Server Pages] which is on sourceforge (maybe
http://psp.sourceforge.net).  PSP has the limitation that the "psp"
pages must reside in the Document Root (ie /var/www , not
~*/public_html).

I like the PyHTML syntax the best,  it's the most Pythonic too.  I
will install it sometime.

-D

On Thu, Jan 11, 2001 at 12:53:22PM +1000, Derek Lavine wrote:
| Hi all,
| 
| I am very new to python, in fact I have only just picked up my first 
| book. I am thinking of using python for web apps and was just wondering 
| if there are any modules out there that make it possible to embed python 
| in the HTML pages so that one can easily build web pages based on the 
| result of database queries and things like that.
| 
| I have used coldFusion quite a bit and it of course makes this sort of 
| thing very easy. I know there are solutions of this type in perl but 
| since I am keen to use python in this context (initially as a means to 
| get acquainted with the language) I thought I would ask them that are in 
| the know.
| 
| Thanks for any pointers or suggestions
| 
| Derek
| -- 
| http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list



From malik.thomas at lbbw.de  Fri Jan 19 09:34:40 2001
From: malik.thomas at lbbw.de (Thomas Malik)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 15:34:40 +0100
Subject: who imported me?
References: <947jh5$puv$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <3A685080.AE881AC6@lbbw.de>

sragsdale at my-deja.com wrote:
> 
> (Hopefully) easy question: I'm writing a module that uses values in
> variables from the script that imported it.
> 
> How can I tell which script is importing me?
> 
you can't, since the code in module's global level is executed only once
( during the initial import) and nothing is passed into an imported
module by default.

> Is there some easier way to get the parent module's variable values?
> 
use execfile instead, here you can pass any dictionary ( including
globals() ) as global scope for the execution of the code inside the
file (by saying 'scope' i mean the set of variable bindings, don't know
a better word for that). So you may, inside the file, access variables
from the current (calling) module. If you need some module to come out
of the whole process, you can import an empty dummy module, copy all
global variables from the current module into the dummy module, and pass
dummy.__dict__ as global scope to execfile, like this:

testmod.py:
# 'almost-module' to be 'imported' as dummy, needs to know importing
module's scope
print 'testmod: i was called by', __name__
print 'testmod: just_for_fun =', just_for_fun
print 'testmod: calling test():\n', test()
 
# set some variable
new_var =
1                                                                     

dummy.py:
# everything inside testmod.py shall show up inside this module, as if
the code in testmod.py
# had been defined here.
just_for_fun = 0
print 'dummy: __name__ =', __name__

main.py:
 
import dummy
 
# function to be visible inside 'testmod'
def test():
  print 'test(), __name__ =', __name__
  print 'test: dummy.just_for_fun =', dummy.just_for_fun
  return 'test result'
 
# copy main.py's scope into dummy's scope
dummy.__dict__.update(globals())
# exec testmod.py and put all assignments/defs into dummy's scope
execfile("testmod.py", dummy.__dict__)
 
# actually set in testmod
print 'dummy.new_var =',
dummy.new_var                                            
print 'dummy.__name__ =', dummy.__name__
# Note that __name__ will be wrongly set in dummy from main.py's
__name__ 
# (you may decide to reset it after the execfile)
dummy.__name__ = 'dummy'
print dummy.test() # is main.py's test, actually, __name__ will still
print as '__main__' in test() call
# has gone into dummy, not here: NameError
print 'just_for_fun =', just_for_fun



Thomas


From b012414 at mail.dvz.fh-koeln.de  Thu Jan 18 06:47:58 2001
From: b012414 at mail.dvz.fh-koeln.de (Stephan Effelsberg)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 12:47:58 +0100
Subject: mod_python/'import site' failed
References: <944pf1$8d3$1@news.gu.se>
Message-ID: <3A66D7EE.795D5F45@mail.dvz.fh-koeln.de>


Martin Sandin schrieb:

> Hello!
>
> I'm trying to get mod_python up running and have run into the same problem
> on both Win98 systems I've attempted this feat on. This after following the
> instruction provided to the best of my abilities. Apache starts giving the
> following message:
>
> 'import site' failed; use -v for traceback
> Apache/1.3.12 (Win32) mod_python/2.6.3 Python/2.0 running...
> 'import site' failed; use -v for traceback
>
> and then returning "internal server error" on the URLs pointing to Python
> files. Now, I'd be asking this on the mod_python mailing list if it wasn't
> for the fact that I've tracked dow that error message as something that
> Python emitts. Thus given I'll ask this:
>
> What does that error message mean? What has gone wrong? How can I fix it in
> general? And if anyone knows, how can it be fixed in this particular case?
>

Apart from 'ordinary' modules, site.py is a very special module for handling
OS-specific imports of 3rd party modules (e.g. look if you have *.pth files in
your Python directory, they are read by this module) and adjusting sys.path, it
is imported automatically during startup.
A failed import of this module also causes this special error message, not the
usual ImportError. It seems that you either don't have the file site.py (or
site.pyc) or Python is not able to locate it.
A failed import of 'site' is no reason for Python to quit, you're simply not
able to locate some specific modules. That's the reason why Apache tells you
that Python is running, because it is really doing so.
Conclusion: either Python is not installed correctly or Apache is able to
modify the way Python works (but don't ask me how in particular, I'm not an
Apache expert).




From shredwheat at mediaone.net  Wed Jan 24 12:24:48 2001
From: shredwheat at mediaone.net (Pete Shinners)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 17:24:48 GMT
Subject: Python vs Ruby
References: <94mdkd$222e$1@news.adamastor.ac.za>
Message-ID: <AdEb6.97790$y9.18851010@typhoon.we.rr.com>

"James Lockley" <jpl at global.co.za> wrote
> Just been reading a "Ruby centric" comparison of Ruby vs Python on:
> http://helium.ruby-lang.org/en/compar.html
>
> would be interested to hear the Pythonista view....

what's interesting after looking over the 'bullet points'
is that most of them are the same points i would make to
say why i prefer python over ruby. heh

really, i don't know too much about ruby. i was looking at
both languages at the same time, and after a little fence
strattling, jumped over into the python yard. been happy
enough to not peek back over the fence either.






From coral945 at aol.com  Sat Jan  6 16:50:01 2001
From: coral945 at aol.com (coral945 at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2001 21:50:01 GMT
Subject: GET PAID $$$ FOR BEING ONLINE!  9662
Message-ID: <dqM56.12004$rk1.331003@news.uswest.net>

GO TO  http://buzyperson01.homestead.com/main.html FOR ALL THE INFO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
kuwnfxebxfidlverxbryvlpctudzbfqobcgbhbxnehmdswiwtxtgccjrhhuqevqnjtrjdzkclnnuifd



From fredrik at effbot.org  Thu Jan  4 06:07:21 2001
From: fredrik at effbot.org (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 11:07:21 GMT
Subject: regular expressions: grabbing variables from multiple matches
References: <mailman.978567423.22249.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <JPY46.2909$AH6.513673@newsc.telia.net>

Heather Lynn White wrote:
> Suppose I have a regular expression to grab all variations on a meta tag,
> and I will want to extract from any matches the name and content values
> for this tag.
>
> I use the following re

alex has already explained how to use the optional "pos"
argument to search forward from the last match.

but supposing you really are out to extract meta tags from an
HTML document, it might be a better idea to use the HTML/SGML
parser in sgmllib:

# extract meta tags from a HTML document
# (based on sgmllib-example-1 in the effbot guide)

import sgmllib

class ExtractMeta(sgmllib.SGMLParser):

    def __init__(self, verbose=0):
        sgmllib.SGMLParser.__init__(self, verbose)
        self.meta = []

    def do_meta(self, attrs):
        name = content = None
        for k, v in attrs:
            if k == "name":
                name = v
            if k == "content":
                content = v
        if name and content:
            self.meta.append((name, content))

    def end_title(self):
        # ignore meta tags after </title>.  you
        # can comment away this method if you
        # want to parse the entire file
        raise EOFError

def getmeta(file):
    # extract meta tags from an HTML/SGML stream
    p = ExtractMeta()
    try:
        p.feed(file.read())
        p.close()
    except EOFError:
        pass
    return p.meta

#
# try it out

import urllib
print getmeta(urllib.urlopen("http://www.python.org"))

Hope this helps!

Cheers /F

<!-- (the eff-bot guide to) the standard python library:
http://www.pythonware.com/people/fredrik/librarybook.htm
-->




From ngps at madcap.dyndns.org  Sat Jan 13 10:27:20 2001
From: ngps at madcap.dyndns.org (Ng Pheng Siong)
Date: 13 Jan 2001 15:27:20 GMT
Subject: Using Python SSL
References: <93nt06$4eu$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <3A5F8255.55F71A1D@stroeder.com> <93o4v4$bic$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <93ps4o$dbt$1@violet.singnet.com.sg>

According to Gavin Cooper  <skreech at socket.net>:
> This leads me to think that there might not be a way to use Python's SSL
> like this to code an SSL _server_. I'll have to browse the socket module

The last time I looked Python 2.0's built-in SSL doesn't do servers.
Somebody posted patches to c.l.py to do that, but I can't seem to find 
a copy nor a pointer on my disk.

M2Crypto does SSL clients and servers and works with both Python
1.5.2 and Python 2.0. 

For server examples, the package comes with the canonical "echo" server
done the following ways:

- iterative
- forking
- threading, 2 flavours
- asynchronous socket i/o

Get it here:

    http://www.post1.com/home/ngps/m2

Cheers.

-- 
Ng Pheng Siong <ngps at post1.com> * http://www.post1.com/home/ngps



From paulp at ActiveState.com  Fri Jan 19 20:21:52 2001
From: paulp at ActiveState.com (Paul Prescod)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 17:21:52 -0800
Subject: Evaluting a python code in a string
References: <Se_96.394$mY4.179630@news.uswest.net>
Message-ID: <3A68E830.8E1CB605@ActiveState.com>

Steve Tuckner wrote:
> 
> In Perl you can evaluation perl code that is embedded in a string by using
> the Eval function. For example the following code:
> 
> $i = "hello"
> eval "print $i";
> 
> will print "hello" to the terminal.
> 
> How can a person do a similar function in Python? 

Others have described how to do this but I want to make the point that
it is often a feature that people use when they should not. It is
inefficient and also a potential security hole. Often people use it to
just convert types or delay executiion of some code. I don't know
anything about you so you may be an expert and know exactly what you are
doing but just in case not, I thought I'd give a warning.

 Paul Prescod



From huwdotlynes at ic.ac.uk  Fri Jan 26 10:51:03 2001
From: huwdotlynes at ic.ac.uk (Huw Lynes)
Date: 26 Jan 2001 15:51:03 GMT
Subject: Python and postgreSQL ??
References: <mailman.980426549.9162.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrn973aun.76.huwdotlynes@Marvin.ic.ac.uk>

Has anyone mentioned PyGresql? That's the interface I usually use and
it seems fairly straightforward. Bit of a sod to compile though.

To reply you know what "dot" should really be.



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Wed Jan 31 03:00:46 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 09:00:46 +0100
Subject: Python 2.1 and Unicode
References: <hpse7tc1h31hosvt4ojeu419c531mm76ij@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <958gnc0ksj@news2.newsguy.com>

"Dale Strickland-Clark" <dale at out-think.NOSPAMco.uk> wrote in message
news:hpse7tc1h31hosvt4ojeu419c531mm76ij at 4ax.com...
    [snip]
> We need two important features:
>
> 1. A print command that defaults to ignoring Unicode conversion errors -
or at least
> has the option to do so.

Having print be a _little_ bit flexible in how it stringifies its
arguments would be a big plus for us addicts of q&d-print-based
debugging, no argument about that.  Other 'stringifications', such
as the one performed by %-formatting (with a %s format code) etc,
may have similar issues.

> 2. A function, such as str() that converts *anything* to an ASCII string -
> ignoring Unicode errors.

You may put something like this in your site-configuration script[s]:

import __builtin__
def astr(x,str=__builtin__.str):
    try: return str(x)
    except UnicodeError:
        return x.encode('latin1','ignore')
__builtin__.str = astr

to replace the built-in str with a "more forgiving" one to your
taste.  This won't help with other implicit stringifications,
though -- for those, setting the default encoding (again in your
site configuration) may be best, but I don't think that, this
way, you can specify 'ignore' rather than 'strict' as the default.


Alex





From peter at engcorp.com  Sun Jan 14 23:59:31 2001
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 23:59:31 -0500
Subject: PHP vs Python
References: <eAs86.7767$ED.239213@news1.rdc1.bc.home.com>
Message-ID: <3A6283B3.76D07875@engcorp.com>

TC wrote:
> 
> Hi

Hi!

> I did a quick search for deja python +php +review
> not even 1 relevent hit ...so
> any takers points of interest
> 
> 0- how long is a peice of string ? ;)

Seven.

> 1-which one is going to be around longer, why ??

The piece of string?  No, wait, I see.  The answer
is Python.  No argument is possible.  (Two possible
reasons, one being that Python was here first...)

> 2-who has more users

Don't know.  Suspect it's Python, that one being
rather broader in scope ("rather" means "massively"
in my world).

> 3-who hits the wall in scaling up and or handing complexity

PHP.

> 4-general performance

Python is better for "general" performance,
given that PHP is not designed for "general"
use.

> 5-where would I be better off using PHP over Python

An environment already using PHP.  Or an environment
where Python is not available.  Or if you know
only PHP.  Only sure about the first two...

> 6-DB interfaces consistent
>    -seems python has a standad API PHP appears 
>     all over the map depending on DB

Probably true.

Since you don't specify even in the slightest your
intended use for either of these languages, it must
be inferred.  Unfortunately, there are conflicting
hints.  The mere fact you are looking at PHP suggests
you are focused on web development.  On the other
hand, you do mention "general performance", implying
perhaps that you have more than a narrow application
area in mind.  Give us more info and the answers
might be useful.  I doubt mine is. :)

There is a chance, if you have a very narrow focus
on server-side web scripting in mind, that PHP
might be more suitable for you.  If that is not
your sole focus, don't waste your time.


From derek at realware.com.au  Wed Jan 10 21:53:22 2001
From: derek at realware.com.au (Derek Lavine)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 12:53:22 +1000
Subject: HTML embeded with python
Message-ID: <MPG.14c7bd1a9ff02ee1989689@news.hutch.com.au>

Hi all,

I am very new to python, in fact I have only just picked up my first 
book. I am thinking of using python for web apps and was just wondering 
if there are any modules out there that make it possible to embed python 
in the HTML pages so that one can easily build web pages based on the 
result of database queries and things like that.

I have used coldFusion quite a bit and it of course makes this sort of 
thing very easy. I know there are solutions of this type in perl but 
since I am keen to use python in this context (initially as a means to 
get acquainted with the language) I thought I would ask them that are in 
the know.

Thanks for any pointers or suggestions

Derek


From embed at geocities.com  Wed Jan 24 09:02:25 2001
From: embed at geocities.com (Warren Postma)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 09:02:25 -0500
Subject: Python as a Beverage
References: <94mdkd$222e$1@news.adamastor.ac.za>
Message-ID: <piBb6.6458$Oe.29283@tor-nn1.netcom.ca>

"James Lockley" <jpl at global.co.za> wrote:
> Just been reading a "Ruby centric" comparison of Ruby
>vs Python on: http://helium.ruby-lang.org/en/compar.html

My 2 cents:  This has been done to death, and since it is categorically
impossible to put objectively, I think poetic license is called for.

I felt that in Ruby there was too much of the "Perl" way of doing things:
Odd punctuation, odd little operators and naming, and what felt to me like
unintuitive syntax and conventions.
The core Python syntax and coding patterns were "compact" and I absorbed
them very easily.
[ Except for the much-over-discussed existence of both Tuples and Lists,
which later made sense, and the meanings
of "lambda" and "map", which now seem to fit, but which originally I did not
understand. ]

Nevertheless, I could write anything I wanted pretty much right away in
Python, without the
"Borrowed from functional languages" stuff.

With that in mind, I would put it this way:

    Python = Jolt Cola (All the Sugar, and Twice the Caffeine. Watch out for
the side effects.)

    Ruby = Pepsi Cola (Much Better than New Coke, but not a replacement for
Old Coke or Jolt, for me)

    Perl = Liquid Invert Sugar and Caffeine in an intravenous drip bag
(Let's not beat around the bush anymore, let's just go and do some damage.)

    C = Classic Coke (Still can't live without it.  Python, for instance, is
written in C.)

    C++ and Java = New Coke (Can definitely live without it, but other
people swear by it)

    Smalltalk =  Tonic Water with a slice of Lemon (I'm not quite ascetic
enough to appreciate it, but I appreciate people who appreciate it.)

    Lisp or Functional Languages = Hot Water  (Some people can drink hot
water with nothing in it. I don't understand it. Neither do I understand
Lisp or Functional programmers.)

Analogys-R-Us-ly-y'rs-
    Warren







From rturpin at my-deja.com  Fri Jan  5 14:53:32 2001
From: rturpin at my-deja.com (rturpin at my-deja.com)
Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 19:53:32 GMT
Subject: How robust is Python ?
References: <9354f9$vbi$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, <LOBBJMHOIFOLFIPFANHJAEJFCHAA.zope@TheWebsons.com> <mailman.978716227.31692.python-list@python.org> <mailman.978721929.3640.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9358nn$3c5$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

In article <mailman.978721929.3640.python-list at python.org>,
  Moshe Zadka <moshez at zadka.site.co.il> wrote:
> You might have misunderstood my English. X is just as T
> as Y means T(x) >= T(y). ..

Your English is just fine. Since I don't know T(y), that
tells me little about T(x)!

> .. However, personally I wouldn't trust *any* language
> for that. Have a every-minute cron which resurrects
> it if it isn't up? ..

Unfortunately, cron is not cross-platform. We'll have
some sort of mechanism to do this. The problem is not
just the language and operating system, but everything
that can kill a process. Still .. you want such mechanism
as backup, not as a solution to regular crashes.

Russell


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From bbhaydon at my-deja.com  Fri Jan 19 02:49:54 2001
From: bbhaydon at my-deja.com (bbhaydon at my-deja.com)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 07:49:54 GMT
Subject: Beginning with threads
Message-ID: <948rj1$rhu$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

I am just starting with threads and am trying
to grasp what should and shouldn't be done...
I have a class that uses threads in one of its
functions. Should I make it inherit from threading??

for instance my code goes like:
import threading

class someclass:
   def somefunc(self):
     t = threading.Thread(target="self.someotherfunc", args = "args")
     t.start()
   def someotherfunc(self,args):
     do stuff

It's legal but..

regards,

Brett




Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From grante at visi.com  Mon Jan 22 10:56:43 2001
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 15:56:43 GMT
Subject: PSU uses emacs?
References: <zoka6.19675$Mo6.204420@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com> <94cktu$d9c$1@news.wrc.xerox.com>
Message-ID: <%KYa6.1423$eI2.487638@ruti.visi.com>

In article <94cktu$d9c$1 at news.wrc.xerox.com>, Mark Jackson wrote:

>> This is speculation, based on the philosophical attitudes I have observed in
>> the two groups concerned. 8^} Who designed DOS anyway, Gary Kildall wasn't
>> it?
>
>That was CP/M, the 16-bit version of which was considered by IBM for
>their PC but not chosen.  MS-DOS was first licensed and then purchased
>by Microsoft from Seattle Computer Products.  It was written by Tim
>Paterson; heavy CP/M influence is evident, but it was far from a
>clone.  See Paul Ceruzzi, /A History of Modern Computing/.

Looked like a clone to me.  Virtually identical FCB structure,
BIOS entry point at 0x0005, same executable layout, etc. etc.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  They don't hire
                                  at               PERSONAL PINHEADS,
                               visi.com            Mr. Toad!


From danielhill at brightok.net  Mon Jan 22 04:44:25 2001
From: danielhill at brightok.net (Dead Dan)
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 03:44:25 -0600
Subject: What does Python do
References: <94gmeu$4fc$1@sooner.brightok.net> <t1Sa6.4569$Yv.544288@juliett.dax.net>
Message-ID: <94gvv5$7mo$1@sooner.brightok.net>

Dag,

Thanks, Im just begining in programming and I have had a few suggestiond for
Python. What do you think of it as a first lang, well other HTML. I guess
that dont count

Dan




From fredrik at effbot.org  Wed Jan 31 05:57:30 2001
From: fredrik at effbot.org (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 10:57:30 GMT
Subject: fork, exec and wait on WINDOWS?
References: <3A774C91.40835F30@lbl.gov>
Message-ID: <ucSd6.10340$Qb7.1545550@newsb.telia.net>

Nigel W. Moriarty wrote:
> I have an app that needs to run on UNIX and Windows.
> I have the UNIX fork() and exec() setup but how doe
> one do a similar thing in Windows?

os.spawnv/spawnve.

for more info, see "process management" in the library reference:

    http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/os-process.html

Cheers /F

<!-- (the eff-bot guide to) the standard python library:
http://www.pythonware.com/people/fredrik/librarybook.htm
-->




From jdries at mail.com  Wed Jan 31 11:56:21 2001
From: jdries at mail.com (Jan Dries)
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 17:56:21 +0100
Subject: Dynamically Defined Functions in Classes?
References: <3A7828AD.279C88AC@wildbrain.com>
Message-ID: <3A7843B5.1C43811C@mail.com>

Jim Meyer wrote:
> I have an application in which I wish to treat the members of a
> dictionary as attributes; that is, I want to use set-and-get functions
> to access them. The {weird|clever|tricky|stupid} thing I want to do is
> to dynamically define the access functions at the time that an instance
> of the class is initialized. Here's a brief example
> 
> defaultFoo = {'joe' : 'cool', 'frank' : 'lee', 'ron' : 'dell'}
> 
> class Bar :
>   def __init__(self) :
>     self.Foo = defaultFoo
>     for key in self.Foo :
>       # Define function member key(self,value) which is equivalent
>       # to calling self.setOrGet(key,value), e.g def joe(value) : ...
> 
>   def setOrGet(self, attrName, value = None) :
>     if value == None :
>       return self.Foo[attrName]
>     else :
>       self.Foo[attrName] = value
>       return self.Foo[attrName]
> 
> Any elegant way to go about this? Or smarter ways to deal with
> attributes?

Try this:

defaultFoo = {'joe' : 'cool', 'frank' : 'lee', 'ron' : 'dell'}

class Bar:
    def __init__(self):
        self.__foo = defaultFoo
			
    def __getattr__(self,name):
        try:
            return self.__foo[name]
        except:
            raise AttributeError
			
    def __setattr__(self,name,value):
        if name == "_Bar__foo":
            self.__dict__[name] = value
        else:
            try:
                self.__foo[name] = value
            except:
                raise AttributeError
        
You can then write:

    x = Bar()
    print x.joe
    x.frank = "something"

etc.

Regards,
Jan



From bill at janssen.org  Wed Jan 31 23:24:48 2001
From: bill at janssen.org (Bill Janssen)
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 20:24:48 PST
Subject: Palm extensions for PIL available
Message-ID: <01Jan31.202456pst."3448"@watson.parc.xerox.com>

Fredrik,

I've completed some work on extending PIL 1.1.1 to support raw Palm
image quantization and output.  You can find a gzipped tar file
containing a patch and a new ImagePlugin at
ftp://ftp.parc.xerox.com/transient/janssen/PILpalm.tgz.

The README in that file explains how to apply the support to a vanilla
PIL 1.1.1 source distribution.

The most interesting thing to you, I think, is the extension of the
quantize method, via a new keyword, to support quantizing the colors
of an image to a specified palette.  That palette is specified by
passing an image containing the desired palette.  There were a number
of ways to add this functionality; this seemed to be the approach that
involved the minimal change to PIL.

If you'd like to discuss any philosophical or technical issues about
how I've done this, I'd be happy to do so.

I'd appreciate it if this got into the next release of PIL; of course
your release schedule is your own.

Regards,

Bill




From nospam at nospam.com  Tue Jan  9 14:31:38 2001
From: nospam at nospam.com (Tom)
Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2001 19:31:38 GMT
Subject: How to run more than one instance of the Python interpreter in one process?
References: <mailman.978862627.7187.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <uGJ66.116675$59.32407453@news3.rdc1.on.home.com>

I used that API with VC6 on Win2K and Python v1.6.  It worked fine.  I only
created one 'sub-interpreter'.

Tom.

"Tim Peters" <tim.one at home.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.978862627.7187.python-list at python.org...
> [Syver Enstad]
> > I am fiddling around with embedding Python in C/C++ and am trying
> > to run one interpreter per thread. I've tried using the
> > Py_NewInterpreter and Py_EndInterpreter for each thread but it
> > doesn't seem to be enough because I trigger access violations in
> > the interpreter so I am obviously missing a couple of things. Are
> > there any examples on how to do these kinds of things other than
> > the very sparse code in the demo folder of the source distribution.
>
> None that I've ever seen, or heard of.  Py_{New,End}Interpreter appeared
to
> have been added during a brief bout of Tcl Envy, and neglected thereafter.
> The natural place to talk about this is the Python Thread-SIG:
>
>     http://www.python.org/sigs/thread-sig/
>
> But, in the past, I was unable to get anyone there to admit they used this
> API either.  You should bring it up there, though; at least Guido may be
> interested.  Be sure to say which version of Python you're using and which
> platform you're running on.
>
> there-are-no-access-violations-under-windows<wink>-ly y'rs  - tim
>
>




From sholden at holdenweb.com  Fri Jan  5 08:20:24 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 08:20:24 -0500
Subject: embedded python - cancel "while 1: pass"
References: <mailman.978679506.4982.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1Uj56.3855$xT.141687@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>

Tim Peters <tim.one at home.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.978679506.4982.python-list at python.org...
> [Warren Postma]
> > Okay, I have a worse case than WHILE 1: PASS
[...]
> > ...
> > In that case, I think I'm still stuck with the Three Finger
> > Salute method (reboot).
>
> Since that's a Windowsism, I hope you know you can kill Python from the
Task
> Manager, instead of rebooting.  Windows was carefully designed to let you
> recover from anything <wink>.
>
Even itself!






From pearu at cens.ioc.ee  Sat Jan 13 03:06:19 2001
From: pearu at cens.ioc.ee (Pearu Peterson)
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 10:06:19 +0200
Subject: making a string copy of a list
In-Reply-To: <3a5ff99b.3312857@news.earthlink.net>
References: <slrn95vuqg.1pa.warlock@gargoyle.myth> <3a5ff99b.3312857@news.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10101131003100.12427-100000@kev.ioc.ee>


On Sat, 13 Jan 2001, Tyler Eaves wrote:

> yourstring=''
> for x in yourlist:
> 	yourstring=yourstring+str(x)+','
> #Remove that last comma
> yourstring=yourstring[:-1]

`yourlist` should do the job:

>>> `[2,3]`
'[2, 3]'

or (almost) equivalent to Tyler's suggestion:

>>> `[2,3]`[1:-1]
'2, 3'

Pearu



From tim.hochberg at ieee.org  Thu Jan 11 21:06:54 2001
From: tim.hochberg at ieee.org (Tim Hochberg)
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 02:06:54 GMT
Subject: boolean xor
References: <93ace8$nmo$1@panix3.panix.com> <93i7ne$5dk$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <93i9ff$q4l$1@slb0.atl.mindspring.net> <pI576.21295$ge4.9910815@news2.rdc2.tx.home.com> <93iuj9$jta$1@slb3.atl.mindspring.net> <cLa76.23299$ge4.10502177@news2.rdc2.tx.home.com> <93jls9$v12$1@slb3.atl.mindspring.net> <Tbi76.10504$X3.66627@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com> <93kofr01bg2@news1.newsguy.com> <61t76.2471$6i.33339@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <2Ft76.135896$15.28612550@news1.rdc1.az.home.com>

"Steve Holden" <sholden at holdenweb.com> wrote in message
> "Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:93kofr01bg2 at news1.newsguy.com...
[SNIP]
> > Bingo -- I *was* starting to think I should post about that.  For least-
> > astonishment purposes, I'd thus like the xor function to behave
similarly:
> > return either A or B if at all possible (it may not be, of course, if
> > both A and B are true).  E.g.,
> >
> > def xor(A,B):
> >     if not A: return B
> >     if not B: return A
> >
> Bzzzt. You need a "return 1" at the end of that. Look:
>
> >>> def tf(x):
> ...  if x: return 1
> ...  else: return 0

[SNIP]

> Better check my fix works: not often I get a chance to correct the
> martellibot!

I suspect that head thwacking will soon commence

> >>> def xor(A, B):
> ...  if A: return B
> ...  if B: return A
> ...  return 1
> ...
> >>> for A, B in (["", ""], ["", 't'], ['t', ''], ['t', 't']):
> ...  print tf(A), tf(B), tf(xor(A, B))
> ...
> 0 0 1
> 0 1 0
> 1 0 0
> 1 1 1
>
> Yup, that appears to do it. Still, returning that "1" doesn't seem very
> Pythonic. Can;t think of anything else to do, however, since not (either
> argument) will give 1 anyway in that case.

Uhm, unless I slipped into an alternate universe at some point since they
were cramming this stuff into my brain, the truth table for xor is:

A B A^B
0 0 0
0 1 1
1 0 1
1 1 0

The rest I leave as an excercise for the reader.

-tim




From fredrik at effbot.org  Mon Jan 15 13:06:06 2001
From: fredrik at effbot.org (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 18:06:06 GMT
Subject: is this a known re 'bug/feature'?
References: <sr1aNJAD+vY6Ewmb@jessikat.demon.co.uk> <4jG86.6277$Qb7.923474@newsb.telia.net>
Message-ID: <i_G86.6289$Qb7.925983@newsb.telia.net>

> (In the meantime, feel free to post this bug report to the
> SF bug tracker).

I posted it myself:

http://sourceforge.net/bugs/?func=detailbug&bug_id=128899&group_id=5470

Cheers /F




From dubal at my-deja.com  Thu Jan 18 10:44:49 2001
From: dubal at my-deja.com (dubal at my-deja.com)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 15:44:49 GMT
Subject: curses, python20/152, RH70/62, postgresql problems
Message-ID: <94731d$9j4$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

Hello!

We are trying to develop a business application
for dumb terminals using python, curses and
postgresql.

First we tried to install the Beopen Py20 rpm on
RedHat 7.0. It looks for some old libs and
doesn't install.
We then tried to compile Py20 source on RH7. It
gives some LONG_BIT error and stops.
We then renamed /usr/bin/gcc to gcc.nogo and
renamed kgcc to gcc and tried to compile py20.
Got same error.
Has anyone found out a way to get py20 to work on
rh7?

We then read curses howto from python website and
started developing using the RH7's stock
python152.
We found following problems:
1. Color cannot be used because the required vars
are not available.
2. pads cannot be used as mentioned in howto.
3. getstr(x,y,len) does not allow the 3rd
argument (length)
Can anyone plese suggest any solutions to these?

We then abandon rh7 and go to rh62 with beopen
py20 rpm installed.
getstr works fine. Color vars are available but
we could not get the color to work.
Latest (7.0.3) postgresql rpms are also installed
on this machine.
This includes postgresql-python rpm supplied by
postgres site.
When we try to connect to postgres from python,
it produces following warning:
Python C API version mismatch for module _pg:
This python has API version 1009, modules _pg has
version 1007
How to fix this?
It seems to work after this warning. We checked
the pygresql site. It says their next version
will have py20 compatibility. Do you think it is
ok to use _pg with the version mismatch?

I read somewhare that curses do not have colors,
ncurses do. I see that ncurses is preinstalled on
rh. Does python have its own builtin curses or
does it use the one from separately installed rpm?
How to get the color to work?

Thanks for reading and TIA for any replies.
Dubal


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From grante at visi.com  Fri Jan 19 14:52:22 2001
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 19:52:22 GMT
Subject: I will kill my Python
References: <mailman.979852022.13720.python-list@python.org> <947r18$rdt$1@news.online.de>
Message-ID: <WV0a6.745$eI2.252250@ruti.visi.com>

In article <947r18$rdt$1 at news.online.de>, Nils Hensel wrote:

>If an exe is your single concern then perhaps you should better stick with
>VB.

As if running an exe file generated by VB doesn't require that
a whole slew of DLLs and other cruft be installed.  It's no
different than Python.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  It was a JOKE!! Get
                                  at               it?? I was receiving
                               visi.com            messages from DAVID
                                                   LETTERMAN!! YOW!!


From erno-news at erno.iki.fi  Wed Jan 24 20:31:59 2001
From: erno-news at erno.iki.fi (Erno Kuusela)
Date: 25 Jan 2001 03:31:59 +0200
Subject: Python and postgreSQL ??
References: <slrn96uhcq.1u1.isard@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <kuy9w05sds.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>

In article <slrn96uhcq.1u1.isard at localhost.localdomain>,
isard at localhost.localdomain (Carles Sadurn? Anguita) writes:

| I've search unsuccessfully a tutorial about "attack" postgreSQL with Python.
| Can anybody help me?

pygresql comes with a tutorial. it's in the "tutorial" directory.

  -- erno


From sifu at isohypse.org  Thu Jan 18 09:23:40 2001
From: sifu at isohypse.org (Siegmund Fuhringer)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 15:23:40 +0100
Subject: emacs / autocompletion
Message-ID: <20010118152340.A31004@isohypse.org>

hi..

is there anywhere an emacs autocompletion mode available?
i'm unable to find something like that. 

bye siegmund





From sharmad at goatelecom.com  Sat Jan 27 03:43:05 2001
From: sharmad at goatelecom.com (Sharmad  Naik)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 14:13:05 +0530
Subject: crypt and decrypt
Message-ID: <005e01c0883d$2e354700$85a1d4d2@SharmadNaik>

    Can anyone tell me whether there is a crypting (security) function in python 1.52 .
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From jbauer at rubic.com  Wed Jan 24 11:29:18 2001
From: jbauer at rubic.com (Jeff Bauer)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 10:29:18 -0600
Subject: ANN: timeoutsocket.py --> v1.12 works with Python 2.0
References: <980352751.234548674@news.flashcom.net>
Message-ID: <3A6F02DE.B0C4A@rubic.com>

The timeoutsocket.py module is very useful.  Any chance
it could be rolled into the standard python library?

Jeff Bauer
Rubicon Research



From stepheb at comm.mot.com  Fri Jan 26 16:26:52 2001
From: stepheb at comm.mot.com (Stephen Boulet)
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 15:26:52 -0600
Subject: c(++)python?
Message-ID: <3A71EB9C.D258C1C0@comm.mot.com>

This is just something I've wondered about, and not intended to be a
troll.

Why is the most popular implementation of python in C? A novice
programmer (like myself) might think:  "python is itself an
object-oriented language, so it would make sense to implement it in
another object-oriented language."

Is this in fact the case, or was c++ not standardized/mature enough
when python first came out?

-- Stephen



From lars at marowsky-bree.de  Wed Jan 17 11:13:11 2001
From: lars at marowsky-bree.de (Lars Marowsky-Bree)
Date: 17 Jan 2001 17:13:11 +0100
Subject: Relational Databases and Python
References: <mailman.979589896.32678.python-list@python.org> <3A63D5DB.50B7DD0E@python.net> <d$pEguFgAHA.266@fnews1.vi-internet.de>
Message-ID: <slrn96bh4n.5av.lars@server.in-addr.de>

On Wed, 17 Jan 2001 09:01:22 +0100, Robert Sauer
	<sauer at informatik.hu-berlin.de> wrote:

> Another opetion would be to go with SAP DB. It's freshly published as Open
> SOurce.
> 
> Have a look at http://www.sap.com/solutions/technology/sapdb/

Do you have any experience so far how well it works with Python and in
general?



From sholden at holdenweb.com  Thu Jan 18 08:21:47 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 08:21:47 -0500
Subject: This is my first program in Python
References: <3a66a585.268350144@news.tcn.net>
Message-ID: <W9C96.6257$rw.65347@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com>

"Richard Zilavec" <rzilavec at tcn.net> wrote in message
news:3a66a585.268350144 at news.tcn.net...
>
> I've spent the last few weeks trying to find a good book on Python.
> Seems that most stores don't carry a large selection, however I found
> The Quick Python Book..  The material seems to flow in the right
> direction and the fonts are easy on the eyes.
>
> Anyways, I wrote my first program but was stumped on readline().  I
> could get the first line, but not the rest of the file.  I tried
> searching python.org and could not find an example.... well here it
> is:
>
> import string
> file = open("/tmp/globs", 'r')
> for line in file.readlines():
>         (first,second) = string.split(line,':',1)
>         print first
> file.close()
>
Very Pythonic! The parentheses are unnecessaary in the assignment, but
that's a nit. Also, in Python 2 you could replace string.split(line, ":", 1)
with line.split(':', 1), and avoid the need to import the string module. But
that's another nit. This is a good program.

> This was my first attempt, which looks like it should work but failed:
> invalid syntax.  Is this not possible?
> while line = file.readlines():
>
The assignment has deliberately been designated a statement rather than an
expression,
The standard idiom for doing this with a while would be (untested):

while 1:
    line = file.readline()
    if line == '':
        break
    first, second = line.split(':', 1)
    print first

Some people don't like this. It's not going to change :-)

> Am I using string.split properly?
>
Yes, but strings now have a split() method, so the first argument is
implicit as I mentioned above.

> I was quite happy with how easy this was to put together, I'm just not
> sure if its totally correct.
>
> --
>  Richard Zilavec
>  rzilavec at tcn.net
>
Totally.  Well done!

regards
 Steve




From piet at cs.uu.nl  Mon Jan  8 10:25:19 2001
From: piet at cs.uu.nl (piet at cs.uu.nl)
Date: 08 Jan 2001 16:25:19 +0100
Subject: Interbase/Python 2.0 (was Re: MySQL with Windows)
References: <yJd56.9184$KY1.25399@news1.rivrw1.nsw.optushome.com.au> <9349uh$h3i$1@news1.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <uu27acbhc.fsf_-_@cs.uu.nl>

>>>>> boud at rempt.xs4all.nl (Boudewijn Rempt) (BR) writes:

BR> Well, Andy links to http://home.t-online.de/home/err666/ from his

This page also contains a link to a precompiled Interbase module for Python
2.0 on Windows. Unfortunately the link is no longer valid. Does anyone
have/know a precompiled one for the above?
-- 
Piet van Oostrum <piet at cs.uu.nl>
URL: http://www.cs.uu.nl/~piet [PGP]
Private email: P.van.Oostrum at hccnet.nl


From mikael at isy.liu.se  Sat Jan 13 10:38:36 2001
From: mikael at isy.liu.se (Mikael Olofsson)
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 16:38:36 +0100 (MET)
Subject: newbie...
In-Reply-To: <QZM76.20111$n5.335569@news6.giganews.com>
Message-ID: <XFMail.010113163836.mikael@isy.liu.se>

On 13-Jan-01 Matt Frey wrote:
 >  Where is a good place to learn python?

I'll try to give you a more serious answer than the ones you've gotten 
so far. First, visit the Python home at www.python.org. Especially, 
take a look at the Python documentation that you can find there. And of
course, the tutorial. Then, when you stumble over something you do not 
understand, return here.

Good luck!

/Mikael

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From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Thu Jan  4 17:24:13 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 23:24:13 +0100
Subject: How-to create a Pascal Record using Python
References: <3a54c7cf.15612195@news.skynet.be> <u4456.166$XZ5.32337@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com> <3a54e0c0.21998314@news.skynet.be>
Message-ID: <932t9t012hv@news1.newsguy.com>

"Daniel" <Daniel.Kinnaer at AdValvas.be> wrote in message
news:3a54e0c0.21998314 at news.skynet.be...
    [snip]
> Suppose I have something like
>
> TMyRecord = record
>      aName : string;
>      adate   :  TDateTime;
>     aZIP     : integer;
>   end; //record
>
> var MyRecs : array [1..100] of TMyRecord;
>       f             : file of TMyRecord;
>
> How is this handled in Python?  Sorry for these questions, but I
> really would like to learn about all of this.

Such fixed-structures are rarely used in Python.  When there is
a need, the struct module may be employed.  The 'p' format of
struct is exactly the one used to encode a Pascal string (1-byte
length, then up to 255 characters -- or, a different length if
explicitly specified).  'integer', depending on whether you mean
2 or 4 bytes, is either format 'h' (for 'half') or 'i'.  A 'TDateTime'
is not an elementary type and thus has no direct struct
format character.

As you can see, these are rather low-level constructs from
Python's viewpoint!  They will be needed if one has to handle
a file produced by some other program.  Else, one would
normally define a class to hold the data attributes, and use
the pickle (or cPickle) module to save to disk and reload any
number of such objects.


Alex







From loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de  Sat Jan 20 17:53:00 2001
From: loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de (Martin von Loewis)
Date: 20 Jan 2001 23:53:00 +0100
Subject: pyXML support for XSL tranformations??
References: <rtga6.18098$bb.708443@news1.rdc1.tx.home.com>
Message-ID: <p6qsnmdq1ir.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>

"Scott Hathaway" <slhath at home.com> writes:

> Using the Microsoft tools, you can load an XML document, then load and XSL
> or XSLT document into memory and then call nodeTransform to blend the two
> together and then spit it back out.
> 
> Is there a way to do this with pyXML or any other python xml library?

Try 4Suite. It is a PyXML superset, that uses the PyXML parsers and
implements the transformations on top of it.

Regards,
Martin


From daniel at dittmar.net  Sun Jan 28 08:20:32 2001
From: daniel at dittmar.net (Daniel Dittmar)
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 14:20:32 +0100
Subject: Pyditor, Text editor fully extendible in python a la' Emacs
References: <mailman.980635233.16241.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3A741CA0.80EA83FA@dittmar.net>

> ... lots of features requests for a python programmable programming editor ...

I think vim (http:/www.vim.org/) has most of these. If only someone
would write emacs like keybindings for vim.

Daniel


From aahz at panix.com  Sat Jan 20 11:44:12 2001
From: aahz at panix.com (Aahz Maruch)
Date: 20 Jan 2001 08:44:12 -0800
Subject: Tabbing/Spaces
References: <B68E060D.901B%bobhicks@adelphia.net> <ivcZcLAtwLa6Ew2r@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <mtu26v9iwm.fsf@astron.berkeley.edu> <slrn96ipbi.oul.quinn@groat.ugcs.caltech.edu>
Message-ID: <94cf8s$dga$1@panix6.panix.com>

In article <slrn96ipbi.oul.quinn at groat.ugcs.caltech.edu>,
Quinn Dunkan <quinn at groat.ugcs.caltech.edu> wrote:
>On 19 Jan 2001 16:17:13 -0800, Johann Hibschman <johann at physics.berkeley.edu>
>wrote:
>>
>>Shrug.  Whatever suits you best, I guess.  I just hate getting all-tab
>>code, since then I have to re-indent it for it to be readable.
>>All-space code, on the other hand, always looks fine.
>
>Unless you use proportional fonts.

To expand on Alex's comment, proportional fonts are fine unless you've
also got a setup that tries to do justification -- but that would be a
problem with monospaced fonts, too.  The width of a space in a
non-justified proportional font is fixed.
-- 
                      --- Aahz (Copyright 2001 by aahz at pobox.com)

Androgynous poly kinky vanilla queer het    <*>     http://www.rahul.net/aahz/
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6

I guess I mostly see Life [tm] as a process of closing doors that you
might want to go through.  --Aahz


From jbauer at rubic.com  Wed Jan  3 11:51:38 2001
From: jbauer at rubic.com (Jeff Bauer)
Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 10:51:38 -0600
Subject: Sample script using MySQLdb ?
References: <92vjfd$p63$1@reader1.imaginet.fr>
Message-ID: <3A53589A.D27D9A89@rubic.com>

Christophe Prevost wrote:
> Somebody have a quite complete script using this module?

Here's a cheezy little script I use for mysql dba stuff.
You might find it useful to get you started.  If the
code isn't formatted correctly I can email it to you
as an attachment.  Hope that helps.

Jeff Bauer
Rubicon Research


#!/usr/bin/env python
# mysqldba.py

"""
MySQL database administration routines

jbauer at rubic.com
"""

import os, sys, string
from string import join
from UserDict import UserDict
import getopt
from getpass import getpass
import MySQLdb

class DbTable(UserDict):
    """
    DbTable is a dictionary of 'db' table rows.
      key = (Db, Host, User) tuple
      value = dictionary of row values
    """
    def __init__(self, connection):
        self.connection = connection
        apply(UserDict.__init__, (self,))
        self.name = 'db'
        self.fields = [ 'Db',
                        'Host',
                        'User',
                        'Select_priv',
                        'Insert_priv',
                        'Update_priv',
                        'Delete_priv',
                        'Index_priv',
                        'Alter_priv',
                        'Create_priv',
                        'Drop_priv',
                        'Grant_priv', ]
        self.populate()

    def create_database(self, db_name, **kw):
        assert(db_name != 'mysql')
        assert(db_name not in self.database_list)
        c = self.connection.cursor()
        qs = "CREATE DATABASE %s" % db_name
        c.execute(qs)
        values = [ \
            db_name,
            kw.get('Host', '%'),
            kw.get('User', ''),
            kw.get('Select_priv', 'Y'),
            kw.get('Insert_priv', 'Y'),
            kw.get('Update_priv',  'Y'),
            kw.get('Delete_priv', 'Y'),
            kw.get('Index_priv', 'Y'),
            kw.get('Alter_priv', 'Y'),
            kw.get('Create_priv', 'Y'),
            kw.get('Drop_priv', 'N'),
            kw.get('Grant_priv', 'Y'), 
            ]
        self.reload()
        qs = "INSERT INTO %s (%s) VALUES (%s)" % \
             (self.name,
              join(self.fields, ', '),
              join(map(lambda x: "'%s'" % x, values), ', '))
        c.execute(qs)
        self.reload()

    def databases(self):
        """
        Return a sorted list of databases
        """
        databases = {}
        for db, host, user in self.keys():
            if db:
                databases[db] = None
        keys = databases.keys()
        keys.sort()
        return keys

    def drop_database(self, db_name):
        assert(db_name != 'mysql')
        c = self.connection.cursor()
        qs = "DROP DATABASE %s" % db_name
        c.execute(qs)
        qs = "DELETE FROM %s WHERE Db='%s'" % (self.name, db_name)
        c.execute(qs)
        self.reload()

    def populate(self):
        c = self.connection.cursor()
        qs = "SELECT %s FROM %s" % \
             (join(self.fields, ', '), self.name)
        c.execute(qs)
        _db = {}
        for r in c.fetchall():
            d = {}
            i = 0
            for f in self.fields:
                d[f] = r[i]
                i = i + 1
            self[(d['Db'], d['Host'], d['User'])] = d
            _db[d['Db']] = None
        self.database_list = _db.keys()
        self.database_list.sort()

    def reload(self):
        c = self.connection.cursor()
        c.execute("FLUSH PRIVILEGES")
        self.clear()
        self.populate()

class UserTable(UserDict):
    """
    UserTable is a dictionary of 'user' table rows.
      key = (Host, User) tuple
      value = dictionary of row values
    """
    def __init__(self, connection):
        self.connection = connection
        apply(UserDict.__init__, (self,))
        self.name = 'user'
        self.fields = [ 'Host',
                        'User',
                        'Password',
                        'Select_priv',
                        'Insert_priv',
                        'Update_priv',
                        'Delete_priv',
                        'Index_priv',
                        'Alter_priv',
                        'Create_priv',
                        'Drop_priv',
                        'Grant_priv',
                        'References_priv', 
                        'Reload_priv',
                        'Shutdown_priv',
                        'Process_priv',
                        'File_priv', ]
        self.populate()

    def add_user(self, user, **kw):
        assert(user != 'root')
        if kw.has_key('Password'):
            password = "PASSWORD('%s')" % password
        else:
            password = "''"
        values = [ \
            "'%s'" % kw.get('Host', '%'),
            "'%s'" % user,
            password,
            "'%s'" % kw.get('Select_priv', 'Y'),
            "'%s'" % kw.get('Insert_priv', 'Y'),
            "'%s'" % kw.get('Update_priv',  'Y'),
            "'%s'" % kw.get('Delete_priv', 'Y'),
            "'%s'" % kw.get('Index_priv', 'Y'),
            "'%s'" % kw.get('Alter_priv', 'N'),
            "'%s'" % kw.get('Create_priv', 'Y'),
            "'%s'" % kw.get('Drop_priv', 'Y'),
            "'%s'" % kw.get('Grant_priv', 'N'),
            "'%s'" % kw.get('References_priv', 'Y'),
            "'%s'" % kw.get('Reload_priv', 'Y'),
            "'%s'" % kw.get('Shutdown_priv', 'N'),
            "'%s'" % kw.get('Process_priv', 'N'),
            "'%s'" % kw.get('File_priv', 'N'),
            ]
        qs = "INSERT INTO %s (%s) VALUES (%s)" % \
             (self.name,
              join(self.fields, ', '),
              join(values, ', '))
        c = self.connection.cursor()
        c.execute(qs)
        self.reload()

    def del_user(self, user, host=''):
        if host:
            wc = "User='%s' AND Host='%s'" % (user, host)
        else:
            wc = "User='%s'" % user
        qs = "DELETE FROM %s WHERE %s" % (self.name, wc)
        c = self.connection.cursor()
        c.execute(qs)
        self.reload()

    def mod_password(self, user, password):
        c = self.connection.cursor()
        qs = "UPDATE %s SET Password=PASSWORD('%s') WHERE user='%s'" % \
             (self.name, password, user)
        c.execute(qs)
        c.execute("FLUSH PRIVILEGES")

    def mod_user(self, user, **kw):
        f = []
        v = []
        if kw.has_key('Host'):
            host = kw['Host']
        else:
            host = ''
        values = []
        for k in kw.keys():
            if k in self.fields:
                if k == 'User':
                    assert(kw[k] == user)
                values.append("%s='%s'" % (k, kw[k]))
        if host:
            wc = "User='%s' AND Host='%s'" % (user, host)
        else:
            wc = "User='%s'" % user
        qs = "UPDATE %s SET %s WHERE %s" % \
             (self.name,
              join(values, ', '),
              wc)
        c = self.connection.cursor()
        c.execute(qs)
        self.reload()

    def populate(self):
        c = self.connection.cursor()
        qs = "SELECT %s FROM %s" % \
             (join(self.fields, ', '), self.name)
        c.execute(qs)
        _user = {}
        for r in c.fetchall():
            d = {}
            i = 0
            for f in self.fields:
                d[f] = r[i]
                i = i + 1
            self[(d['Host'], d['User'])] = d
            if d['User']:
                _user[d['User']] = None
        self.user_list = _user.keys()
        self.user_list.sort()

    def reload(self):
        c = self.connection.cursor()
        c.execute("FLUSH PRIVILEGES")
        self.clear()
        self.populate()

class HostTable(UserDict):
    """
    HostTable is a dictionary of 'host' table rows.
      key = (Host, Db) tuple
      value = dictionary of row values
    """
    def __init__(self, connection):
        self.connection = connection
        apply(UserDict.__init__, (self,))
        self.name = 'host'
        self.fields = [ 'Host',
                        'Db',
                        'Select_priv',
                        'Insert_priv',
                        'Update_priv',
                        'Delete_priv',
                        'Index_priv',
                        'Alter_priv',
                        'Create_priv',
                        'Drop_priv',
                        'Grant_priv', ]
        self.populate()

    def add_host(self, host, **kw):
        values = [ \
            host,
            kw.get('Db', ''),
            kw.get('Select_priv', 'Y'),
            kw.get('Insert_priv', 'Y'),
            kw.get('Update_priv',  'Y'),
            kw.get('Delete_priv', 'Y'),
            kw.get('Index_priv', 'Y'),
            kw.get('Alter_priv', 'Y'),
            kw.get('Create_priv', 'Y'),
            kw.get('Drop_priv', 'N'),
            kw.get('Grant_priv', 'N'),
            kw.get('References_priv', 'Y'),
            kw.get('Reload_priv', 'Y'),
            kw.get('Shutdown_priv', 'N'),
            kw.get('Process_priv', 'N'),
            kw.get('File_priv', 'N'),
            ]
        qs = "INSERT INTO %s (%s) VALUES (%s)" % \
             (self.name,
              join(self.fields, ', '),
              join(map(lambda x: "'%s'" % x, values), ', '))
        c = self.connection.cursor()
        c.execute(qs)
        self.reload()

    def del_host(self, host, db=''):
        assert(host != 'localhost')
        pass #XXX  self.reload()

    def mod_host(self, host, **kw):
        pass #XXX  self.reload()

    def mod_password(self, user, password):
        self.userTable.mod_password(user, password)

    def populate(self):
        c = self.connection.cursor()
        qs = "SELECT %s FROM %s" % \
             (join(self.fields, ', '), self.name)
        c.execute(qs)
        _host = {}
        for r in c.fetchall():
            d = {}
            i = 0
            for f in self.fields:
                d[f] = r[i]
                i = i + 1
            self[(d['Host'], d['Db'])] = d
            _host[d['Host']] = None
        self.host_list = _host.keys()
        self.host_list.sort()

    def reload(self):
        c = self.connection.cursor()
        c.execute("FLUSH PRIVILEGES")
        self.clear()
        self.populate()

class Server:
    def __init__(self, **kw):
        self.connection = apply(MySQLdb.connect, (), kw)
        self.dbTable = DbTable(self.connection)
        self.hostTable = HostTable(self.connection)
        self.userTable = UserTable(self.connection)

    def add_host(self, host, **kw):
        apply(self.hostTable.add_host, (host,), kw)

    def add_user(self, user, **kw):
        apply(self.userTable.add_user, (user,), kw)

    def create_database(self, db_name, **kw):
        apply(self.dbTable.create_database, (db_name,), kw)

    def del_host(self, host, db=''):
        self.hostTable.del_host(host, db)

    def del_user(self, user, host=''):
        self.userTable.del_user(user, host)

    def drop_database(self, db_name):
        self.dbTable.drop_database(db_name)

    def __get_password(self, user):
        passwd1 = getpass("Enter MySQL user '%s' password: " % user)
        passwd2 = getpass("Re-enter password: ")
        if passwd1 == passwd2:
            return passwd1
        else:
            return None

    def mod_host(self, host, **kw):
        apply(self.userTable.mod_host, (host,), kw)

    def mod_user(self, user, **kw):
        apply(self.userTable.mod_user, (user,), kw)

    def process(self, operation, args=[]):
        c = self.connection.cursor()
        if len(args) < 1 and \
           operation not in ('dblist', 'hostlist', 'userlist'):
            print "error: argument[s] required for %s operation" %
operation
            return
        if operation == 'addhost':
            print "operation: '%s' not yet implemented" % operation #XXX
        elif operation == 'adduser':
            self.add_user(args[0])
        elif operation == 'dbcreate':
            self.create_database(args[0])
        elif operation == 'dbdrop':
            assert(args[0] != 'mysql')
            self.drop_database(args[0])
        elif operation == 'dblist':
            c.execute("SHOW DATABASES")
            db_list = map(lambda x: x[0], c.fetchall())
            db_list.sort()
            for db_name in db_list:
                print db_name
        elif operation == 'hostlist':
            for host in self.hostTable.host_list:
                print host
        elif operation == 'moduser':
            print "operation: '%s' not yet implemented" % operation #XXX
        elif operation == 'passwd':
            if len(args) < 2:
                while 1:
                    passwd = self.__get_password(args[0])
                    if passwd:
                        break
            else:
                passwd = args[1]
            self.userTable.mod_password(args[0], passwd)
        elif operation == 'rmhost':
            print "operation: '%s' not yet implemented" % operation #XXX
        elif operation == 'rmuser':
            assert(args[0] != 'root')
            self.del_user(args[0])
        elif operation == 'tblist':
            c.execute("SHOW TABLES FROM %s" % args[0])
            table_list = map(lambda x: x[0], c.fetchall())
            table_list.sort()
            for tb_name in table_list:
                print tb_name
        elif operation == 'userlist':
            for user in self.userTable.user_list:
                print user
        else:
            print "error: invalid operation: %s" % operation

if __name__ == '__main__':
    user = 'root'
    host = 'localhost'
    passwd = ''
    usage = """
usage: %s [options] operation

options:
    -u user      default='%s'
    -h host      name or IP address, default='%s'
    -p password

operation:
    addhost   [hostname]
    adduser   [username]    add user
    dbcreate  [dbname]      create a database with default privileges
    dbdrop    [dbname]      drop a database (BE VERY CAREFUL)
    dblist                  list databases
    hostlist                list hosts
    moduser   [username userpriv=X]  modify user privileges (e.g.
Grant_priv=Y)
    passwd    [username [password]]  change user password
    rmhost    [hostname]    remove host
    rmuser    [username]    remove user
    tblist    [dbname]      list database tables
    userlist                list users
""" % (os.path.basename(sys.argv[0]), user, host)
    optlist, args = getopt.getopt(sys.argv[1:], 'h:p:u:')

    if len(sys.argv) < 2:
        print usage; sys.exit(1)
    argv = []
    for _arg in sys.argv[1:]:
        argv.append(_arg)

    for (opt, optarg) in optlist:
        if opt == '-u':
            user = optarg
        elif opt == '-h':
            host = optarg
        elif opt == '-p':
            passwd = optarg
        else:
            print "error: invalid option: %s" % opt
            print usage; sys.exit(1)
        argv.remove(opt)
        argv.remove(optarg)
    if len(argv) < 1:
        print usage
        sys.exit(1)
    if not passwd:
        passwd = getpass("Enter MySQL user '%s' password: " % user)

    server = Server(host=host, db='mysql', user=user, passwd=passwd)
    server.process(argv[0], argv[1:])



From strombrg at seki.acs.uci.edu  Thu Jan 18 17:34:02 2001
From: strombrg at seki.acs.uci.edu (Dan Stromberg)
Date: 18 Jan 2001 22:34:02 GMT
Subject: 3d array?
Message-ID: <947r0q$f6k$1@news.service.uci.edu>

I love python, but is there really no good way of doing a 3d array of
a scalar type?  How about of an aggregate type?

-- 
Dan Stromberg                                               UCI/NACS/DCS


From bwilk_97 at yahoo.com  Thu Jan 25 07:30:27 2001
From: bwilk_97 at yahoo.com (Bill Wilkinson)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 12:30:27 GMT
Subject: beep again
References: <mailman.980415329.32326.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <D%Ub6.17873$T5.2136455@typhoon.midsouth.rr.com>

| [Mark Hammond, on the great non-beeping beep mystery]
| > We learn something new every day :-)

| > I just had a look at the MS documentation for this function [Win32
| > Beep()], and it states at the bottom:
| > """
| > Remarks
| > Windows 95: The Beep function ignores the dwFreq and dwDuration
| > parameters. On computers with a sound card, the function plays the
| > default sound event. On computers without a sound card, the function
| > plays the standard system beep.
| > """
| >
| > Not much we can do about it that I can see, except possibly add a note
| > to the docstring.

On my Win2k box (With a sound card) I get the system beeps and not the wave
files.




From lele at seldati.it  Tue Jan  9 06:46:39 2001
From: lele at seldati.it (Lele Gaifax)
Date: 09 Jan 2001 12:46:39 +0100
Subject: Web devel with python. Whats the best route?
In-Reply-To: Erno Kuusela's message of "09 Jan 2001 09:14:49 +0200"
References: <mailman.978910629.6814.python-list@python.org>
	<93cqvi0191h@news1.newsguy.com> <kuofxhi4d2.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>
Message-ID: <m3hf397xsw.fsf@paci.nautilus>

>>>>> On 09 Jan 2001 09:14:49 +0200, Erno Kuusela <erno-news at erno.iki.fi> said:

    EK> In article <93cqvi0191h at news1.newsguy.com>, "Alex Martelli"
    EK> <aleaxit at yahoo.com> writes:

    EK> | "Session continuity" will have to be provided via cookies,
    EK> but that's | not really all that hard

    EK> note that mod_python and mod_snake are in the same boat
    EK> (modulo libraries they may or may not provide?) because they
    EK> also run with multiple processes.

Yes, there is no way out: the Apache server itself is actually
composed by N child daemons. But while Apache alone consumes one
process for every request, with mod_* you have N "long running"
interpreters that handle them.

    EK> lately i've come to the conclusion that the best way to do
    EK> session tracking (certainly better than cookies) is to
    EK> generate a unique id and put it in the url as a path
    EK> component. something like
    EK> http://my.site/my-program/0dj2/operation or whatever.  you can
    EK> use map the unique to (sequence of?) words from
    EK> id/usr/dict/words if you want to make the url
    EK> human-rememberable :)

As said, I think most mod_* out there do help here: while with
standard CGI you have to "open" a connection with whatever contains
the session database (in your example, the data associated with
session "0dj2") *at every request*, generally with the extmods you can
have *only one* per daemon.

The same is true for module import.

So, to answer the original question: there isn't necessarily just
/one/ "best" route, as usual... it depends on what you are doing. They
all provide facilities not available in standard C. If you already
have CGIs written in Python, then maybe PyApache can help on the speed
front; if you are starting from scratch, maybe the "higher" POV
provided by mod_[python,snake] would fit better.

bye, lele.
-- 
nickname: Lele Gaifax	| Quando vivro' di quello che ho pensato ieri
real: Emanuele Gaifas	| comincero' ad aver paura di chi mi copia.
email: lele at seldati.it	|		-- Fortunato Depero, 1929.




From bowman at montana.com  Tue Jan 23 09:17:24 2001
From: bowman at montana.com (bowman)
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 07:17:24 -0700
Subject: beep
References: <11941-3A6D0F37-61@storefull-166.iap.bryant.webtv.net> <gi9b6.91087$y9.17567648@typhoon.we.rr.com>
Message-ID: <dogb6.9208$d25.58102@newsfeed.slurp.net>

Pete Shinners <shredwheat at mediaone.net> wrote in message
news:gi9b6.91087$y9.17567648 at typhoon.we.rr.com...
>
> does a pretty good job on windows and unix.
> although on windows this plays the system default beep wav,
> it does not send noise to the speaker/buzzer

This was a recent thread on comp.lang.forth. On Windows, a sound card, if
installed and selected as the sound output device, will supercede the
speaker.




From warlock at eskimo.com  Sat Jan 13 01:53:04 2001
From: warlock at eskimo.com (Jim Richardson)
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 22:53:04 -0800
Subject: making a string copy of a list
Message-ID: <slrn95vuqg.1pa.warlock@gargoyle.myth>

OK, I swear I've looked for this, but how do I make a copy of a list, into a
string, complete with commas seperating the entries in the list? 



-- 
Jim Richardson
	Anarchist, pagan and proud of it
WWW.eskimo.com/~warlock
	Linux, because life's too short for a buggy OS.



From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Tue Jan  9 10:59:07 2001
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 15:59:07 +0000
Subject: mxTools (was Re: why no "do : until"?)
References: <937rqs01sal@news1.newsguy.com>
 <mailman.979035250.28265.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <L3JTK6ALVzW6Ewyk@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>

In article <mailman.979035250.28265.python-list at python.org>, Oleg
Broytmann <phd at phd.pp.ru> writes
>On Sat, 6 Jan 2001, Alex Martelli wrote:
>> ...which reminds me: why no PEPs about adding to Python's core some
>> of the nicest ideas in Lemburg's neat mxTools...?  I assume there must
>> be a reason (e.g., Guido must already have seen them all and decided
>> they don't belong in the core, or something), but I'd like to know...
>
>   Anyone here has any doubts that at least mxDateTime simply MUST be in
>the Python core? :)
>

I'm a minimalist; let 100 flowers bloom, but the core should really only
include the minimal required. Fancy dates are a bit too far for me. I
like them, but would prefer such exotica to stay outside the main
distribution. Same goes for a lot of other stuff eg idle tkinter etc
etc. I reckon a lot of the desire for core growth would reduce if there
were a CPAN like scheme for Python.
-- 
Robin Becker


From charlottwilliams at mediaone.net  Sat Jan  6 19:21:59 2001
From: charlottwilliams at mediaone.net (Charlotte Williams)
Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2001 00:21:59 GMT
Subject: Should I learn Python or Java?
Message-ID: <HEO56.5504$y9.2881293@typhoon.we.rr.com>

Hello,

    I am a Visual Basic programmer who wants to increase his knowledge of
programming languages.  Now that the curses, boos, and barrage of rotten
fruit are out of the way, I would like to ask this group a few questions
:-) ...

I notice that there is a lot of demand for Java programmers.  The only
experience I have with an OO language is Smalltalk.   My questions are:

1.  Which language would be best to learn, Java or Python.  From a VB
standpoint, which has the least learning curve?
2.  Is going from object-based to object-oriented programming that huge a
jump?   I want to learn an OO language, however I plan on utilizing it in my
career.
3. Which one is the most "fun" to program in?
4.  Is Python multi-platform?  How is it's performance compared to JAVA in
an internet situation?  It's reliability?
5.  Do you for see Python as becoming a major player like Java servlets and
MTS?  Can you see Python demand outstripping Java demand in 2 years time?

Many of these questions are in response to a post I saw earlier where Python
was being touted as the next evolution of OO programming.  It went something
like...
C --> C++ --> Java --> Python.

I'm really interested in hearing from VB programmers that decided to jump
into one or both of the languages,  has pretty good knowledge (enough to get
a Java or Python job) and the headaches and experiences they had learning
about them.  Do you need a formal CS education to grasp them?  I tried
finding information on these two, but the experiences I always found were C
or C++ programmers that tried to tackle them.  Some sites actually belittled
me as a VB programmer.  Since I have heard such good things about this
groups hospitality, I thought I would ask here first.  Thanks.


David Williams





From john at coastalgeology.org  Mon Jan 22 20:54:36 2001
From: john at coastalgeology.org (Jonathan Pennington)
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 20:54:36 -0500
Subject: XML doc generation
Message-ID: <20010122205436.A29328@coastalgeology.org>

I need some XML help. Here's a snippet from the XML How-To:
<snip>
You can also construct a DOM tree yourself, and convert it to XML;
this is often a more flexible way of producing XML output than simply
writing <tag1>...</tag1> to a file. 
<snip>
Unfortunately, I can't find an example of this.

Does anyone have some code(script?) I can read that does this so I can
learn? Much of what I see in docs/archives is parsing of an XML
document. I, however, have long strings of coordinate data and info
that I currently parse into a large nested dictionary. I'd like to be
able to convert this into an XML format instead of or in addition to a
dictionary. 

Thanks,
-J

---- problem example for the more curious ----

I have a string returned as this just to ease splitting of multiple data
types (ie. some have more or less info than this):

"name:V:WAYPNT:R:comment:V:Test Waypoint data:R:latitude:V:-345689284304 \
:R:longitude:V:948502987435:R:proximity:V:83:R:symbol:V:8345:R:display:V:0"

I don't have a DTD finished yet, but would like something like this, I
just don't want to manually add the tags all the time (ie. I'll
generate them based on the dictionary's "has key" membership):

<DataSet type="coordinate">              .... Also mineral, lithologic, etc.
    <CoordinateSet type="waypoint">           Also route, track, group, etc.
        <datapoint number="gh456">            Unique identifier for each
            <name>WAYPNT</name>
	    <comment>Test Waypoint Data</comment>
	    <coordinates>
	        -0893274924,0928093840
	    </coordinates>
	    <proximity type="waypoint" location="gh455">
		83
	    </proximity>
	    <symbol>8345</symbol>
	    <display>0</display>
        </datapoint>
    </CoordinateSet>
</DataSet>

-- 
Jonathan Pennington		| http://coastalgeology.org
Site Manager			| Protection and stewardship
CoastalGeology.Org (CGO)	| through public education.
john at coastalgeology.org		| Join CGO, make a difference.



From moshez at zadka.site.co.il  Mon Jan 22 15:57:34 2001
From: moshez at zadka.site.co.il (Moshe Zadka)
Date: 22 Jan 2001 14:57:34 -0600
Subject: Dr. Dobb's Python-URL! - weekly Python news and links (Jan 22)
Message-ID: <7D67E5DAC2099D1E.21F58565B42EB06D.325C52AE90704C1A@lp.airnews.net>

    Finn Bock announces Jython 2.0
        http://x52.deja.com/getdoc.xp?AN=717592194        

    Sean True announces a tool to migrate from ADO to MySQL
        http://x58.deja.com/getdoc.xp?AN=718389620

    Looking for Tkinter examples and documentation?
            Will Ware gives pointers
                    http://x76.deja.com/getdoc.xp?AN=716724181        
            John Grayson points to his website
                    http://x76.deja.com/getdoc.xp?AN=716828996
            Greg Landrum points to John's book
                    http://x58.deja.com/threadmsg_ct.xp?AN=716831469.1

    Tony J Ibbs gives an overview of Python documentation tools
            http://x51.deja.com/getdoc.xp?AN=717805913

    Fredrik Lundh reminds comp.lang.python about the Pythonware distribution
            http://x75.deja.com/threadmsg_ct.xp?AN=718127303.1
    overviews ways to implement application scripting in Python
            http://x70.deja.com/getdoc.xp?AN=716862726
    announces fifth preview of Tkinter 3k
            http://x57.deja.com/getdoc.xp?AN=717037092

    Alex Martelli suggests a way to implement a visual OCX control
            http://x56.deja.com/getdoc.xp?AN=716590141
    gives an overview of function introspection
            http://x72.deja.com/getdoc.xp?AN=717864576
    shows how to search google with Python
            http://x60.deja.com/getdoc.xp?AN=716428657

    David Beazly publishes a CFP for O'Reilly Open Source Conference
            http://x51.deja.com/getdoc.xp?AN=717807742

    Tim Peters explains why freezing is not always the right thing
            http://x67.deja.com/getdoc.xp?AN=718124783

    Thomas Heller announces py2exe
            http://x64.deja.com/getdoc.xp?AN=717858751


========================================================================

Everything you want is probably one or two clicks away in these pages:

      Python.org's Python Language Website is the traditional
      center of Pythonia
          http://www.python.org
      Notice especially the master FAQ
          http://www.python.org/doc/FAQ.html

      PythonWare complements the digest you're reading with the
      daily python url
           http://www.pythonware.com/daily  

      comp.lang.python.announce announces new Python software.  Be
      sure to scan this newly-revitalized newsgroup at least weekly.
          http://deja.com/group/comp.lang.python.announce

      Andrew Kuchling writes marvelous summaries twice a month of
      the action on the python-dev mailing list, where the future
      of Python is truly determined
	  http://www.amk.ca/python/dev

      The Vaults of Parnassus ambitiously collect Python resources
          http://www.vex.net/~x/parnassus/   

      Much of Python's real work takes place on Special-Interest Group
      mailing lists
          http://www.python.org/sigs/

      Python Consortium emerges as an independent nexus of activity
          http://www.python.org/consortium

      Cetus does much of the same
          http://www.cetus-links.de/oo_python.html

      Python FAQTS
          http://python.faqts.com/

      Python To-Do List anticipates some of Python's future direction
          http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/todo.py

      Python Journal is at work on its second issue
          http://www.pythonjournal.com

      Links2Go is a new semi-automated link collection; it's impressive
      what AI can generate
          http://www.links2go.com/search?search=python

      Archive probing trick of the trade:
          http://www.dejanews.com/dnquery.xp?QRY=&DBS=2&ST=PS&defaultOp=AND&LNG=ALL&format=threaded&showsort=date&maxhits=100&groups=comp.lang.python


Previous - (U)se the (R)esource, (L)uke! - messages are listed here:
  http://purl.org/thecliff/python/url.html
or
  http://www.dejanews.com/dnquery.xp?QRY=~g%20comp.lang.python%20Python-URL%21


Suggestions/corrections for next week's posting are always welcome.
[http://www.egroups.com/list/python-url-leads/ is hibernating.  Just
e-mail us ideas directly.]

To receive a new issue of this posting in e-mail each Monday morning,
ask <claird at neosoft.com> to subscribe.  Mention "Python-URL!".


-- The Python-URL! Team--

Dr. Dobb's Journal (http://www.ddj.com) is pleased to participate in and
sponsor the "Python-URL!" project.
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at NeoSoft.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://starbase.neosoft.com/~claird/home.html


From danielk at aracnet.com  Thu Jan 11 10:14:25 2001
From: danielk at aracnet.com (Daniel Klein)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 07:14:25 -0800
Subject: Defining a new exception with multiple args
Message-ID: <gnir5t80r7asgcp36jtssum2mspk5i5h4d@4ax.com>

Using the Beazley book as a guide, I have defined a new exception as:

class RecordNotFoundException(Exception):
    def __init__(self, filename, recordid):
        self.filename = filename
        self.recordid = recordid

However, this is what happens when I raise this exception:

>>> raise RecordNotFoundException("myfile", "myid")
Traceback (innermost last):
  File "<pyshell#40>", line 1, in ?
    raise RecordNotFoundException("myfile", "myid")
RecordNotFoundException: <unprintable instance object>

>>> raise RecordNotFoundException, ("myfile", "myid")

produces the same result.

I also tried defining the exception with

import exception
class RecordNotFoundException(exception.Exception):

Why is it showing '<unprintable instance object>' instead of the arguments I
passed?

Thanks for any assistence,
Daniel Klein


From cpsoct at my-deja.com  Wed Jan 24 05:04:34 2001
From: cpsoct at my-deja.com (cpsoct at my-deja.com)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 10:04:34 GMT
Subject: Random and whrandom
References: <94bj03$59v$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <3a6a3540.1976549@news.xo.com> <ei8q6t0ohuded1oiet6qe79e1eco529ote@4ax.com> <94jkh0011gg@news1.newsguy.com> <mailman.980296063.27447.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <94m9bf$nge$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

but to get back to my original question. I should import random and not
whrandom?  But then i notice that seed is in whrandom? Hmmm. so i need
to import both? And why are there 3 seed values? In C, there was just
one. and, what then is rand? id that depreciated?

i want to get random numbers, but seeded ones (so i can duplicate my
run). Frankly i don't understand why python has two random modules in
its standard library and how these namespaces might overlap.

It would be great if the random whrandom poop could be cleaned up in
future versions of python. One clear module.

I am so confused </wlecome back kotter allusion mode off>

kevin parks
seoul, korea
cpsoct at lycos.com


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From steNOSvebPAM at katamail.com  Sat Jan 27 05:09:27 2001
From: steNOSvebPAM at katamail.com (accattatevillo(at home))
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 11:09:27 +0100
Subject: Python and Industry, IBM I'm afraid
References: <20010111172342.10148.00000934@ng-ca1.aol.com>
	 <HnO86.78962$_G5.11779533@typhoon.nyroc.rr.com> <3A63D9E8.F9B74ACE@mjs400.co.uk> <mailman.979825467.28077.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3A729E57.6CE19B86@katamail.com>


Per Gummedal ha scritto:
> 
>
> I'm currently trying to do a port to AS/400.
> I have it up running with a limited set of modules, but it's not
> ready yet.
> 

It's very interesting!!
Version # ?

TIA 
Stefano (happy AS/400 administrator  :-)  )

P.S. Are You an IBM's internal?


From justinhj at hotmail.com  Thu Jan 18 19:37:00 2001
From: justinhj at hotmail.com (JustinHJ)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 16:37:00 -0800
Subject: How to run script from interpreter?
References: <mailman.979855413.16209.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <t6f37pmhbtd94@corp.supernews.com>

say you have a script in a file called test.py just type

import test

(you don't need the .py)

As for doing stuff in the script it will execute any commands it encounters.
It's neat to have all your stuff in functions and then have commands at the
bottom to call the functions as needed. This is like a simulated main() from
C.

if __name__ == '__main__': # only run if main program
 DoStuff( )


Rolander, Dan <Dan.Rolander at marriott.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.979855413.16209.python-list at python.org...
> What is the best way to run a python script from within the interpreter?
> What command should I use?
>
> Thanks,
> Dan
>




From rwklee at home.com  Thu Jan 25 20:07:30 2001
From: rwklee at home.com (Rick Lee)
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 01:07:30 GMT
Subject: Tkinter vs wxPython: your opinions?
References: <3A6F899F.E164F628@home.com>
Message-ID: <3A70CDD3.3EE32FDA@home.com>

Thank you all for your thoughtful posts. On reflection, I would say my
greatest need would be:

- being able to build data entry screens on the fly from a description of
an object's attributes

I am still very naive about this; but I would have thought the need for
this feature would crop up frequently.  I wonder why it doesn't seem to be
featured in the popular toolkits.  Maybe it is extremely easy for anyone to
build, in which case would someone care to post a working example.  Thanks.

- Rick

Rick Lee wrote:

> It has to be cross platform between Linux and Windows, so it  seems that
> my choices are Tkinter and wxPython.
>
> Your experience, thoughts, opinion, on the relative merits and pitfalls
> of each?
>
> My particular case:  A GUI that has 5 windows max., will incorporate a
> xmlrpc client, will have a python object browser, being able to build
> data entry screens on the fly from a description of an object's
> attributes, programmer not familiar with either toolkit.
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> - Rick Lee



From lvanderfeltz at knowledgetrax.com  Sat Jan 13 15:31:31 2001
From: lvanderfeltz at knowledgetrax.com (Lennard van der Feltz)
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 20:31:31 GMT
Subject: ZODB and Python 2.0
References: <mailman.979337025.17444.python-list@python.org> <slrn95vje6.gm.amk@207-172-113-55.s55.tnt5.ann.va.dialup.rcn.com>
Message-ID: <DW286.140362$15.29728375@news1.rdc1.az.home.com>

Isn't the bigger issue that ExtensionClasses are not yet available for
Python 2.0?

I had no problem compiling amk's ZODB distribution as is with Python 1.5.2
under Windows. A simple "python setup.py build" followed by "python
setup.py. install" did the trick.

I did try to run "python setup.py bdist_wininst", and while it ran, it
didn't create anything useful. I noticed that it tries to invoke "zip" to
create the distribution files but I don't have that for Windows. Further, I
am not yet familiar enough with distutils to take it any further.

Lennard


"A.M. Kuchling" <amk at mira.erols.com> wrote in message
news:slrn95vje6.gm.amk at 207-172-113-55.s55.tnt5.ann.va.dialup.rcn.com...
> On Fri, 12 Jan 2001 17:02:36 -0500, Tim Peters <tim.one at home.com> wrote:
> >[Steve Menard]
> >> ...
> >> So finally, my question is this : Why isn;t ZODB available as a
separate
> >> package using the distutils?
> >
> >http://sourceforge.net/projects/zodb/
>
> That's not really going to help if he's on Windows without a compiler.
> Someone needs to download the code and run "python setup.py
> bdist_wininst"; I have no idea if it'll work, but it's worth a try.
>
> Paul Prescod also recently reported compiling ZODB for Windows and
> offered to mmake binaries available.  Paul, if you want to provide a
> pointer to them, I'll add a copy to the SourceForge site.
>
> --amk




From grante at visi.com  Tue Jan 30 08:40:02 2001
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 13:40:02 GMT
Subject: Books
References: <XFMail.010129173238.mikael@isy.liu.se>
Message-ID: <Suzd6.355$ry.93240@ruti.visi.com>

In article <XFMail.010129173238.mikael at isy.liu.se>, Mikael Olofsson wrote:
>
>On 29-Jan-01 Me, myself, and I wrote:
> >  seems to be two different places. Compyters are nit-pickers when it
> >  comes to spelling.
>
>That should be computers. 
>
>Note to self: Proofread one more time when posting to usenet.

It won't work.  Any posting pointing out a spelling error will
itself contain a spelling error.  It's one of the fundamental
laws of Usenet -- no amount of proofreading will help.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  .. I don't understand
                                  at               the HUMOR of the THREE
                               visi.com            STOOGES!!


From root at rainerdeyke.com  Mon Jan 15 16:24:03 2001
From: root at rainerdeyke.com (Rainer Deyke)
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 21:24:03 GMT
Subject: Beginner's question - class definition
References: <3a6366a8.4537644@news.ruralnet.net.au>
Message-ID: <TTJ86.51988$ge4.19880506@news2.rdc2.tx.home.com>

<banksam at swanhill.net.au> wrote in message
news:3a6366a8.4537644 at news.ruralnet.net.au...
> Can anyone explain please why the following definition ( from the
> Python documentation)
>
> class Complex:
> def _init_(self, realpart, imagpart):

Should be __init__ (i.e. two underscores to the left and two underscores to
the right).


--
Rainer Deyke (root at rainerdeyke.com)
Shareware computer games           -           http://rainerdeyke.com
"In ihren Reihen zu stehen heisst unter Feinden zu kaempfen" - Abigor




From derek at realware.com.au  Wed Jan 17 21:50:27 2001
From: derek at realware.com.au (Realware Systems)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 12:50:27 +1000
Subject: Python FTP module
Message-ID: <MPG.14d0f6f1f4045a62989682@news.syd.connect.com.au>

I am sure there is a python FTP module but I don't know where it is or 
what it is called. Any ideas?

TIA
Derek


From phd at phd.pp.ru  Tue Jan  9 05:55:16 2001
From: phd at phd.pp.ru (Oleg Broytmann)
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 13:55:16 +0300 (MSK)
Subject: mxTools (was Re: why no "do : until"?)
In-Reply-To: <7BD10B680501D411B9DF009027E06F32197B86@exchange>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0101091354320.1954-100000@fep132.fep.ru>

On Tue, 9 Jan 2001, [iso-8859-1] Max M?ller Rasmussen wrote:
> From: Oleg Broytmann [mailto:phd at phd.pp.ru]
>
> >   Anyone here has any doubts that at least mxDateTime simply MUST be in
> >the Python core? :)
>
> No that would be a great idea, but doesn't the license prevent that?

   I heared that Marc-Andre may work with GvR to resolve the issue.

Oleg.
----
     Oleg Broytmann            http://phd.pp.ru/            phd at phd.pp.ru
           Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN.




From jaapspies at home.nl  Wed Jan 24 14:59:30 2001
From: jaapspies at home.nl (Jaap Spies)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 19:59:30 GMT
Subject: observer design pattern
References: <94i340$4er$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <3A6CA19C.89A6DFB2@attglobal.net> <3A6D0992.C86D92CD@home.com> <3A6D5BAB.2AB22E36@mail.dvz.fh-koeln.de> <3A6D8E5A.476DE8E7@attglobal.net> <slrn96sc21.jr.amk@mira.erols.com>
Message-ID: <3A6F340D.7000606@home.nl>

A.M. Kuchling wrote:

> On Tue, 23 Jan 2001 08:59:54 -0500, 
> 	Roland Schlenker <rol9999 at attglobal.net> wrote:
> 
>> Correct, when I read the Gof book, I rewrote many of the examples in the
>> Python
>> to better understand them.
> 
> 
> If you still have the code, I'd encourage you to put it on a Web page
> somewhere, or turn it into a HOWTO, since the question seems to come
> up regularly (though not too frequently).
> 
> --amk

Yes! Please do!

Jaap Spies



From bww00 at amdahl.com  Sun Jan  7 16:56:29 2001
From: bww00 at amdahl.com (Bryan Webb)
Date: 07 Jan 2001 21:56:29 GMT
Subject: help / examples reading floats / doubles, user definded objs
Message-ID: <93aomd$7nd@dispatch.concentric.net>

Hi,
    I'm loolking for examples of reading floats, doubles and user defined
objects .

Thanks
Bryan Webb




From djmoore at uh.edu  Sun Jan 28 21:52:50 2001
From: djmoore at uh.edu (DaveMoore)
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 20:52:50 -0600
Subject: win32net NetServerEnum BufferSize, Resume
References: <kjf47t0capb2obuftos06n8i95mr4dbvtg@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <6nl97ts5i3kgcjs8uijdm56juqc2a0jl2g@4ax.com>

On Fri, 26 Jan 2001 21:20:39 -0600, DaveMoore <djmoore at uh.edu>
(that would be me) asked four questions. I kept looking, and came
up with three answers:

[snip  Win32 API NetServerEnum under ActivePython 2.02 background
info.]
>
>The parameter prefLen, used by most of the enumeration functions,
>specifies the size of the returned data buffer, which is copied to 
>a list of dictionaries. The suggested size is 4096.
[snip]
>LMCons.h defines MAX_PREFERRED_LENGTH as ((DWORD) -1), which I take to
>mean one less than the maximum possible value (I am not a C coder).
Got this one; this means, of course, that MAX_PREFERRED_LENGTH is set
to a value of -1, but cast as a DWORD.
[snip]
>On the gripping hand, prefLen=-1 yields the entire list.
[snip]
>Does preflen=-1 result in a buffer of exactly the right size, or the
>largest buffer that can be allocated?
"Exactly the right size," correct? So why is 4096 the default?
>
>NetServerEnum also returns resumeHandle, which supposedly allows you
>to recall the function if there is more information. I'd think an
>undersized buffer would be exactly what resumeHandle would cover, but
>all my calls return zero. When, exactly, does the resume mechanism
>kick in?
>From <http://www.pythonpros.com>: "For some strange reason the code
was setting the resume handle to zero!"

So it looks like this is an error which will go away in the next
release, I hope.
>The code fragment below is based on John Nielson's NetWkstaUserEnum
>example in the Win32 Extensions Network Overview. I've deleted
>Nielson's initial call to Net...Enum, and just set resumeHandle
>nonzero so as to go through the While loop at least once. Would this
>be a problem if I did indeed need to resume?
I still don't get this one. Why two calls, one outside the loop and
one in?
[snip code]

-- 
Dave Moore == djmoore at uh.edu == I speak for me.


From not.this at seebelow.org  Mon Jan 29 09:35:42 2001
From: not.this at seebelow.org (Grant Griffin)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 08:35:42 -0600
Subject: curly-brace-aphobic?
References: <3A74EBD6.3C87FD15@seebelow.org> <slrn97a9fu.7sf.clgonsal@keeshah.penguinpowered.com>
Message-ID: <3A757FBE.E54C5ECD@seebelow.org>

C.Laurence Gonsalves wrote:
> 
...
> I'm not sure why you need to be reminded whether something is a sequence
> or a dictionary.

I guess it's because sequences and dictionaries are conceptually very
different.  (You can tell, because we have a special word just to
characterize "sequences". <wink>)  Both conceptually and in terms of how
they are manipulated, lists, tuples, and strings are all much more
similar to each other than dictionaries are to any of them.  It helps me
when reading code (even my own) to be reminded of the difference.  (I am
the proud owner of a skull of strictly limited size.)

or-maybe-it's-just-because-I-learned-perl-first-<wink>-ly y'rs,

=g2
-- 
_____________________________________________________________________

Grant R. Griffin                                       g2 at dspguru.com
Publisher of dspGuru                           http://www.dspguru.com
Iowegian International Corporation            http://www.iowegian.com


From syver at NOSPAMcyberwatcher.com  Fri Jan 19 06:48:49 2001
From: syver at NOSPAMcyberwatcher.com (Syver Enstad)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 12:48:49 +0100
Subject: Python COM and DCOM.
Message-ID: <3RV96.10957$wt2.125028@news1.oke.nextra.no>

I am having a bit of a problem getting a python COM object to work over
DCOM.

As far as I can see I've done exactly what is proposed in the Python on
Win32 book. But the object is started on the local machine, when using
win32com.client.Dispatch or the default instance creation methods in other
languages such as JScript with ASP and C++. It seems like DCOM works when
using the DispatchEx to explicitly choose the machine to run on but not
else.

Help very much appreciated, thank you.




From scarblac at pino.selwerd.nl  Sat Jan  6 20:37:57 2001
From: scarblac at pino.selwerd.nl (Remco Gerlich)
Date: 7 Jan 2001 01:37:57 GMT
Subject: Returning the path of a file
References: <mjob5tgge328h1sj94elg4b8sldrtteeus@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <slrn95fht6.ed.scarblac@pino.selwerd.nl>

Daniel Klein <danielk at aracnet.com> wrote in comp.lang.python:
> I've search the Beazley book as well as the Python reference materials
> and can't find answers to these two basically simple questions:
> 
> 1) How to return the path of a file previously opened in read-only
> mode?
> 
> 	myfile = open("foo")

As others said, myfile.name is now "foo" and maybe you can reconstruct
something with that.

What I want to add - in general it's simply not possible to do better
than that. For instance, on Unix a file can have multiple filenames
because of linking. Or maybe someone is changing the directory structure
while you have the file open. Maybe the file is not actually a file on
the harddisk, but some device.

So maybe you should always open your files with the full path, if you
need this sort of thing often.

-- 
Remco Gerlich


From mfletch at tpresence.com  Thu Jan 11 11:53:27 2001
From: mfletch at tpresence.com (Mike Fletcher)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 11:53:27 -0500
Subject: Reflection: Calling Methods Dynamically by Name
Message-ID: <CC59868A0A76D311B1F50090277B321C1F37A5@VRTMAIL>

Short answer: Yes.

Long answer: Yes :o) .  exec is an extremely heavyweight call, you're
effectively creating a new interpreter context and asking it to parse your
arbitrary code.  The getattr and apply calls are trivial in comparison, a
few name lookups.

And that's before you get into the "never use exec because it is the spawn
of the devil" philosophy that I'm sure someone will spout at you...
Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: D-Man
To: python-list at python.org
Sent: 1/11/2001 7:51 AM
Subject: Re: Reflection: Calling Methods Dynamically by Name

On Thu, Jan 11, 2001 at 01:41:34PM +0700, Prateep Siamwalla wrote:
| Chad,
| 
| You will want to use getattr() and apply()
| 

Is it better to use getattr() and apply() than to use exec?

For example,

mc = MyClass()
funcname = "ProcessData"
args = ("Data", 1, 3)
exec( "mc." + funcname + "('Data' , 1 , 3 ) " )

-D


-- 
http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list



From db3l at fitlinxx.com  Fri Jan 26 14:53:47 2001
From: db3l at fitlinxx.com (David Bolen)
Date: 26 Jan 2001 14:53:47 -0500
Subject: win32all's win32net module and Win98
Message-ID: <uelxqrsxg.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com>

While trying to run a script on a Win98 machine (Python 1.5.2 and
win32all-132), I found that using the win32net module - which works
fine on my NT4sp4 machine - failed to import.

The problem appears to be that the NETAPI32 DLL on the Win98 system
didn't have any of the entry points it expected.  The DLL on the Win98
system is dated from 99 (don't have the version handy), but the DLL on
my NT system is dated from 98.

Does anyone know if there's a problem using this module under Win98
(my SDK docs seem to indicate the functions it exports were available
as of Win95), and/or do I need to install or update something on the
Win98 box?

Thanks.

--
-- David
-- 
/-----------------------------------------------------------------------\
 \               David Bolen            \   E-mail: db3l at fitlinxx.com  /
  |             FitLinxx, Inc.            \  Phone: (203) 708-5192    |
 /  860 Canal Street, Stamford, CT  06902   \  Fax: (203) 316-5150     \
\-----------------------------------------------------------------------/


From nicrayner at hotmail.com  Mon Jan  8 07:51:25 2001
From: nicrayner at hotmail.com (Nick Rayner)
Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2001 12:51:25 -0000
Subject: ok
Message-ID: <LAW2-F250NDN4CxpAOA0000d744@hotmail.com>

confirm 438765
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.




From Achim.Gaedke at zpr.uni-koeln.de  Mon Jan  8 08:00:42 2001
From: Achim.Gaedke at zpr.uni-koeln.de (Achim Gaedke)
Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2001 14:00:42 +0100
Subject: GNU Scientific Library Interface
Message-ID: <3A59B9F9.868F3428@zpr.uni-koeln.de>

My attempt to access several mathematical functions has grown to a
interface for gsl (GNU Scientific Library:
http://sources.redhat.com/gsl/ ).

You may  obtain it here: http://www.zaik.uni-koeln.de/~achim/gsl/

It gives access to 200 special functions, 31
probability-density-functions, about 20 random number generators.

These functions come with the gsl library, just look at:
http://sources.redhat.com/gsl/ref/gsl-ref_toc.html
The actual status of gsl is 0.7 (alpha-version). In my opinion, the
major part of this library is quite stable.

First you will have to install gsl, then get the gsl-interface and
unpack it. Python-2.0 is necessary for easy installation.
Installation can be done as usual:

python ./setup.py install

I'd like to extend this interface together with other people. So far all
wrapper functions are written in plain C, in order to avoid trouble
while porting.
Just contact me, if you would like to help: Achim.Gaedke --at--
zpr.uni-koeln.de.

Here is a short example:

# import special functions
import gsl.sf

# returns a tuple (result, error of result)
print gsl.sf.gamma(1.0)

#the full list of implemented functions, just refer to gsl-ref for
details
print dir(gsl.sf)

#import random number generator and probability densities
import gsl.rng

#gives you the initialised mt19937 random number generator
r=gsl.rng.gsl_rng_mt19937()

#returns the next long int random value
print r.get()

# returns a float value with gaussian probability (sigma=2,mu=0)
print r.gaussian(2)

# displays all implemented rngs
print filter(lambda e:e[:7]=='gsl_rng',dir(gsl.rng))

# displays all implemented densities:
print filter(lambda e:e[-3:]=='pdf',dir(gsl.rng))

--
Achim Gaedke, ZPR
Weyertal 80, 50931 K?ln
Tel: +49 221 470 6021





From wlsonna at attglobal.net  Sat Jan 20 09:10:35 2001
From: wlsonna at attglobal.net (William Sonna)
Date: 20 Jan 2001 14:10:35 GMT
Subject: I will kill my Python
References: <mailman.979852022.13720.python-list@python.org> <947r18$rdt$1@news.online.de> <948f09$i96$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <0O7zTzsxerl5-pn2-3VUTduFoLZlv@bill>

On Fri, 19 Jan 2001 04:15:10, thelazydogsback at my-deja.com wrote:

[snip]

> 
> On a related topic, I've seen some Microsoft bashing here as well (not
> just this post.) There's certainly nothing wrong with that (It's a
> profession for some) but I must say that in some cases it reduces
> Python's credibility. I want to see people using it because it works
> for them, not just because they hate the evil Micro$oft and would
> rather code with toggle-switches than use anything built even 500 miles
> from Redmond. Just some thoughts...
> 

Your wrong, pal.

PERL bashing, not Microshaft bashing, is the chief "professional" 
activity around here:-)


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Thu Jan  4 07:31:43 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 13:31:43 +0100
Subject: Registering C methods when writing a C extension type?
References: <mailman.978564004.19861.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <931qh802n2n@news2.newsguy.com>

"Tom Epperly" <tepperly at llnl.gov> wrote in message
news:mailman.978564004.19861.python-list at python.org...
> I planning to write a C extension type (not module) to provide a Python
> binding for an object or interface defined in an IDL (interface definition
> language) for high performance scientific computing. In the example from

So far, so good.


> following to make the object methods visible (in myobject.c):
>
> static struct PyMethodDef myobject_methods[] = {
>   {"method_one", (PyCFunction)method_one, 1},
    [snip]
>  return Py_FindMethod(object_methods, self, name);
> }
>
> /* tp_getattr points to myobject_getattr */

Yes, this is the 'canonic' way.


> I am wondering what the relative merits/penalties of doing something like
> the following in the constructor for the hypothetical myobject instead of
> the above. I would like feedback about issues of style (am I violating the
> designers intent or using functions intended for internal use only),
> forward/backward portability, and efficiency.

I fail to see any advantage of the following approach.  OTOH, the
disadvantages are pretty obvious:


> static myobject *
> new_myobject()
> {
>   myobject *self;
>   const int len = sizeof(object_methods)/sizeof(PyMethodDef);
>   int i;
>   self = PyObject_NEW(myobject, &myobjecttype);
>   if (self == NULL) return NULL;
>   for(i = 0 ; i < len ; i++){
>     PyObject *func = PyCFunction_New(object_methods + i, self);
>     if (func != NULL) {
>       PyObject_SetAttrString(self, object_methods[i].ml_name, func);
>       Py_DECREF(func); /* remove extra reference */
>     }
>   }
>   return self;
> }

...each new-object instancing pays a time price to initialize the
table of its methods, and, perhaps more important, the *space*
to hold a table that's just a copy of the object_methods one to
all intents and purposes.  What's the point...?


Alex





From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Wed Jan 31 17:40:40 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 23:40:40 +0100
Subject: Python 2.1 and Unicode
References: <hpse7tc1h31hosvt4ojeu419c531mm76ij@4ax.com> <958gnc0ksj@news2.newsguy.com> <ivig7t0dvpblnqlqa348jop70dbtmd2hjo@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <95a49s01uao@news1.newsguy.com>

"Dale Strickland-Clark" <dale at out-think.NOSPAMco.uk> wrote in message
news:ivig7t0dvpblnqlqa348jop70dbtmd2hjo at 4ax.com...
    [snip]
> Thanks, again, Alex.

You're welcome!

> I'm not familiar with the site configuration stuff. Could I also use this
> for identifying our own module library?
>
> Where's it documented?

http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/module-site.html and environs.

Basically, strategically placing .pth files will help you "identify your
module libraries" etc.  Then, sitecustomize.py, if it exists, lets you do
any last-minute site-specific tweaks -- it's imported first.


Alex







From nikolai.kirsebom at siemens.no  Thu Jan  4 05:24:25 2001
From: nikolai.kirsebom at siemens.no (Nikolai Kirsebom)
Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 10:24:25 GMT
Subject: Importing into 'containers' namespace
Message-ID: <3a544e22.1199160471@news.mch.sni.de>

There is probably an easy solution to this, but I can't seem to find
out.

I would like to make an object (instance) created in the 'importing'
namespace available in the imported module.

Example below:

# -----------------------------------------------------------
# File: B.py (the imported module)
# when loaded, the object 'FrameWork' is in the scope
class B:
    def __init__(self):
        self.b = FrameWork.a

# -----------------------------------------------------------
# File: A.py (the importer)

class A:
    def __init__(self):
        self.a = 1

# Create framework instanse
FrameWork = A()

# SOME IMPORT STATEMENT for module B
??

Sub = B.B()
print Sub.b    # Produces '1' as output

# ----------------------------------------------------------

Thanks for any help.
Nikolai



From loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de  Thu Jan 25 13:34:44 2001
From: loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de (Martin von Loewis)
Date: 25 Jan 2001 19:34:44 +0100
Subject: Python vs Ruby
References: <94mdkd$222e$1@news.adamastor.ac.za>
Message-ID: <p6qwvbjtr97.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>

"James Lockley" <jpl at global.co.za> writes:

> Just been reading a "Ruby centric" comparison of Ruby vs Python on:
> http://helium.ruby-lang.org/en/compar.html
> 
> would be interested to hear the Pythonista view....

As far as I can tell, all of them are facts, not opinions, which is a
good thing. Most of them are correct, which is also a good think.

Incorrect is the claim
  Ruby has "real" garbage collector, not ref-counting.

While this is correct also, it implies that Python has ref-counting
and no "real" garbage collector, which is not true for Python 2.0.

The implication of the conclusion
#  Not subject to memory leaks like ref-counting is. 

is likewise incorrect - in Python 2.0, the memory leaks of reference
counting disappear also. The implication from the other conclusion
#  No INCREF, DECREF are required for extensions.
is still correct - INCREF, DECREF are required for extensions.
I don't know how exactly GC works in Ruby - it is likely that
it suffers from things that people would consider as drawbacks, though.

#  Ruby is often faster than Python.
That I would not believe without proof.

Regards,
Martin


From mspiggie at my-deja.com  Fri Jan 26 11:54:38 2001
From: mspiggie at my-deja.com (mspiggie at my-deja.com)
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 16:54:38 GMT
Subject: The fundamentals...
References: <F8Jb6.30683$pp2.2619941@news3.cableinet.net> <mailman.980380532.28633.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <94sa4a$vo8$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

In article <mailman.980380532.28633.python-list at python.org>,
  Neil Schemenauer <nas at arctrix.com> wrote:
> Its probably clearer use string.replace.  Using ?!ng's excellent
> pydoc command:
>
>     $ pydoc string.replace
>
>     Python Library Documentation: function replace in string
>
>     replace(s, old, new, maxsplit=-1)
>         replace (str, old, new[, maxsplit]) -> string
>
>         Return a copy of string str with all occurrences of substring
>         old replaced by new. If the optional argument maxsplit is
>         given, only the first maxsplit occurrences are replaced.
>
> So you can do:
>
>     boo = string.replace(". ", "\n")
>
> In Python 2.0 or later you can use string methods:
>
>     boo = boo.replace(". ", "\n")
>
> Cheers,
>
>   Neil
>
>

I have been trying to find a way to use replace() to perform more than
one replacement within a given file.  For instance, suppose I needed to
replace ". " with "\n", but also need to replace "!" with "exclamation"
and "?" with "question".  I have tried several approaches to this, but
none of my neophyte ideas have produced satisfying results.

Rob


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From katz at Glue.umd.edu  Sat Jan 27 12:12:07 2001
From: katz at Glue.umd.edu (Roy Katz)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 12:12:07 -0500
Subject: . Python 2.1 function attributes
In-Reply-To: <mailman.980613639.23439.python-list@python.org>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0101270135190.7677-100000@y.glue.umd.edu> <mailman.980593892.725.python-list@python.org> <$5A+ZwAGjtc6EwE0@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <14962.62953.304511.523826@anthem.wooz.org> <mailman.980613639.23439.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0101271158190.3501-100000@y.glue.umd.edu>

On Sat, 27 Jan 2001, Robin Becker wrote:

> >>>> def f(x * [x-1 for x > 1]) << x: pass

ohmigod, that's like a bad dream..

> >...
> >>>> print f.x = 5
> >120
weird! wouldn't it be clearer with a functor? wink, wink!


> aaarrggghhhh the Inquisition auto da fe with << and >>
it's what you oughtn't to do but you do anyway :)

IMHO, the above History of the World quote applies to our topic
precisely :)

Yeah, I was griping about the language going to hell and I meant it.  I
don't mean to return to Python 1.3 days, but some things (notably
print>>) contribute a fair share towards Perlization. 

Given Python's current "there's a right way to do it" motto, and
its recent TMTOWTDIfication, perhaps a more fitting one would be
"yeah, but so-and-so came up with a patch, and we couldn't resist, so we
included it. So deal."  History of the World. Now there is print>> and
write().  I call for boycotting print>>.  I expect one person, maybe less,
to support me on that.  

I fully expect to see blocking delimiters in the next Python
incarnation.  Onward {Christian,Jewish,..}  Soldiers! to
Perl! (perlwards!)


To be more optmistic:  I would like to see more of a unification between
functions and classes. See my other post.  Perhaps a type which is both a
class and a function simultaneously (a 'type')?

type myClassAndFunc(self, x) extends ParentClassAndFunc:
     data = x         # static data
     print data       # when called as myClassAndFunc(

     type meth1(self): pass   # method
     type meth2(self): pass   # method

Just brainstorming :)


Roey

Got Patches?




From f8dy at my-deja.com  Mon Jan 29 15:48:49 2001
From: f8dy at my-deja.com (Mark Pilgrim)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 20:48:49 GMT
Subject: Books
References: <3a757ac1$1@netnews.web.de>
Message-ID: <954kvc$f6n$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

In article <3a757ac1$1 at netnews.web.de>,
  "Volker Jahns" <volker.jahns at web.de> wrote:
> First:I am want to read something about PHYTON. Which books are good
for a
> programmer with good knowledge in differnt languages PHP, SQL and so
one?

<plug>
I am writing a free book on Python, targeted at people just like you,
with experience in other scripting languages.  So far, I've published
2.5 chapters of it on
http://diveintopython.org/.  It won't teach you everything, but it's a
good place to start.
</plug>

-M
--
You're smart; why haven't you learned Python yet?
http://diveintopython.org/


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From godcha at my-deja.com  Thu Jan 18 04:30:09 2001
From: godcha at my-deja.com (godcha at my-deja.com)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 09:30:09 GMT
Subject: This is my first program in Python
References: <3a66a585.268350144@news.tcn.net>
Message-ID: <946d31$nh9$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

In article <3a66a585.268350144 at news.tcn.net>,
  rzilavec at tcn.net wrote:
>
> I've spent the last few weeks trying to find a good book on Python.
> Seems that most stores don't carry a large selection, however I found
> The Quick Python Book..  The material seems to flow in the right
> direction and the fonts are easy on the eyes.
>
> Anyways, I wrote my first program but was stumped on readline().  I
> could get the first line, but not the rest of the file.  I tried
> searching python.org and could not find an example.... well here it
> is:
>
> import string
> file = open("/tmp/globs", 'r')
> for line in file.readlines():
>         (first,second) = string.split(line,':',1)
>         print first
> file.close()
>
Your question is not clear...

But I read and tried your code above, it is correct and working
perfectly : it prints the first characters until the first colon (:) of
each line of the /tmp/globs file.

> This was my first attempt, which looks like it should work but failed:
> invalid syntax.  Is this not possible?
> while line = file.readlines():
>
> Am I using string.split properly?
>
> I was quite happy with how easy this was to put together, I'm just not
> sure if its totally correct.
>
> --
>  Richard Zilavec
>  rzilavec at tcn.net
Godefroid Chapelle
BubbleNet sprl
Louvain-la-Neuve Belgium


Sent via Deja.com
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From fredrik at effbot.org  Wed Jan  3 18:37:42 2001
From: fredrik at effbot.org (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 23:37:42 GMT
Subject: Registering C methods when writing a C extension type?
References: <mailman.978564004.19861.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <aJO46.3556$Qb7.446508@newsb.telia.net>

Tom Epperly wrote:
> In this case, the getattr method does not call Py_FindMethod.

what does it (tp_getattr) do instead?

confused /F




From pete at visionart.com  Mon Jan  8 15:40:59 2001
From: pete at visionart.com (Pete Shinners)
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 12:40:59 -0800
Subject: HELP: traceback from signal handler
Message-ID: <93d8go$9u1$1@la-mail4.digilink.net>

i have a C signal handler that is catching my segfaults. i'd
like to print a traceback before the program quits. i'm having
a tricky time figuring this out.

it appears first off that my signal handler doesn't have
the global interp lock, so i can't get ahold of the current
thread_state. (i assume i need the thread_state to create
a traceback object). do i need to get the thread_state? is
it safe for me to get it from inside a signal handler?
am i even on the right track?

thanks





From db3l at fitlinxx.com  Mon Jan 22 16:12:37 2001
From: db3l at fitlinxx.com (David Bolen)
Date: 22 Jan 2001 16:12:37 -0500
Subject: Different deployment considerations (was: Python & GUI?)
References: <mailman.980041704.14288.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <uhf2r9tq2.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com>

Mike Fletcher <mfletch at tpresence.com> writes:

> I do wxPython-based distributions using installer quite often, they are not
> "single file" installations, as you get the PythonXX.dll, wxc.pyd,
> wxXXX.dll, zlib.pyd, etceteras all as separate files. I think you get the
> same for the Tkinter apps, so not really sure what's meant by "single file"
> here.

You can get "single file" by using a Windows installation package
(like InstallShield, Wise, or the free InnoSetup).

> There's nothing special to do for wxPython, I just run "standalone" or
> "simple" and the app is generated with the DLLs collected.  Once I rename
> msvcirt.dll to msvcrt.dll I've got a working application.

You've got to be careful with that - the MSVC*RT.DLL files are the C
run time, and are sometimes system specific - not to mention not being
identical.  I'm drawing a blank on precisely the differences, but I
seem to recall that MSVCRT40 delegates various functionality to
MSVCIRT.DLL.  I know know that I messed stuff up during testing by
letting my (NT) MSVCIRT.DLL file get installed on a Win98 system.  In
the end, I've taken to wimping out and assuming that my clients need
those present and I won't supply them.  They come with many MS
applications, and I think can be downloaded as a runtime independently
if necessary, but I haven't run into any problems yet.

Note that this issue is independent of Python or wxPython - it's a
general problem with deciding how to update some of the system DLLs.

--
-- David
-- 
/-----------------------------------------------------------------------\
 \               David Bolen            \   E-mail: db3l at fitlinxx.com  /
  |             FitLinxx, Inc.            \  Phone: (203) 708-5192    |
 /  860 Canal Street, Stamford, CT  06902   \  Fax: (203) 316-5150     \
\-----------------------------------------------------------------------/


From dnew at san.rr.com  Fri Jan 19 12:58:56 2001
From: dnew at san.rr.com (Darren New)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 17:58:56 GMT
Subject: Why no isexec, isread, iswrite, etc (was: I must be missing something obvious: os.path.isexecutable?)
References: <slrn96enju.g1v.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <slrn96ep7c.g1v.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <slrn96erlf.h11.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <uy9w89kjb.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com> <ywR96.7525$AH6.1174891@newsc.telia.net>
Message-ID: <3A688062.A6B0E7F5@san.rr.com>

> > One possibility is that there's more than one answer to the question
> > of "isexec" - it's not a single bit, but one that can exist for all of
> > owner, group and world.

UNIX has ACLs now almost as sophisticated as NT does, too.
 
> Another possibility is that "isexec" isn't a portable concept... 
> How would you implement it on Windows, for example?

Anything you have execute permission for? 

What if the machine is down and it's on a network-mounted mount point? What
if the path after the #! doesn't exist, or isn't executable.

Try executing the file and see if you get what you want. That's "isexec".
:-)

-- 
Darren New / Senior MTS & Free Radical / Invisible Worlds Inc.
San Diego, CA, USA (PST).  Cryptokeys on demand.
"It says this wine has syphilis."
               "I think that's pronounced `sulphates'."


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Jan 19 11:55:45 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 17:55:45 +0100
Subject: PSU uses emacs?
References: <948e4b$hm0$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <948fvj$oq1$1@panix6.panix.com> <3A67CDC3.7EACB07D@Lugoj.Com> <9490t009on@news2.newsguy.com> <3a685ef2.3403798@reading.news.pipex.net>
Message-ID: <949rii0a76@news1.newsguy.com>

"Ray Drew" <ray_drew at yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:3a685ef2.3403798 at reading.news.pipex.net...
    [snip]
> (on Win98)
> I've been using Idle but I'd like to try gvim. A few questions spring
> to mind...
>
> Do you use a command window for interactive sessions, or can you run
> an interpreter within gvim (as with emacs)? If you use a command
> window, how do you manage repeating previous code snippets?

I normally use a command window (occasionally PyWin or IDLE, while
still doing 'real' editing from gvim).  I repeat previous code
snippets with up-arrow (on NT); Win98 is really brain-damaged
(up-arrow doesn't work at Python prompt, while in NT it does) so
I'd use an alternate command processor there, which does give me
this minimal utility (there's one written in Python that I use on
win98 machines sometime, but I don't have an URL for it handy;
or else, bash or some of its workalikes).


> How do you debug... in the command window with pdb?

To be honest, more often I stick print statements in for debugging
purposes, but that's not a particularly clever idea, just the normal
reflex of a programming dinosaur (I do lots of OutputDebugString and
watch them with a separate utility too - I find that VERY handy since
so often I'm debugging joint Python and C/C++ code operation, and my
approach to debugging does tend to be 'check what this is worth right
here' which tracing facilities such as print and OutputDebugString
work well with).  pdb seems quite adequate too (when I'm debugging
only Python, not C/C++ written modules at the same time).


> Do you use the ole version to make it Python-programmable? Can you
> give a simple example of how this might be used?

Yes, and no, to the two questions.  I find the idea of a programmable
editor very cool, but (again being a dinosaur) I don't really make
much true use of it!-)


> Any other tips for using gvim with Python?

Use blank lines cleverly to delimit logical blocks, so { and } are
useful movement-commands -- also increases readability.  Would be
nice to have movement commands based on indent-levels, but, to be
quite honest with you, I've never bothered programming them...
(shame's about to engulf me...).  I like :set expandtab always
on -- no tab/space confusion; I also like :set ff unix, so that my
scripts can be shared between Win and Unix machines (and why
waste one byte per line to tell a 'carriage' that is not there
to 'return' [to where?]...?!-).

Oh, and the key tip for gvim under Win98 - the quoting character
is NOT control-V (they used that for 'paste' to follow Win
conventions) -- it's control-Q instead.  So to remove those
silly control-M (carriage-return) that using some other editor
may have inserted, :%s/^Q^M// is what one types (with ^ to mean
keeping the Ctrl key down:-).


Alex





From kwoeltje at earthlink.net  Mon Jan 29 21:26:15 2001
From: kwoeltje at earthlink.net (Keith Woeltje)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 02:26:15 GMT
Subject: Books
References: <3a757ac1$1@netnews.web.de>
Message-ID: <3A76264A.D0E2557@earthlink.net>

Volker,

You'll probably want to try the Python tutorial first (online at
http://www.python.org/doc/current/tut/tut.html ).

For printed books, check out "Learning Python" by Lutz (there is even a
German translation) or "The Quick Python Book" by Harms and McDonald.

"Python Essential Reference" is a very handy book. It has a 10 page
tutorial that may be enough to get you going especially if you've worked
through the "official" tutorial. The rest of the book pretty much lives
up to its billing. "Core Python" by Chun has gotten some good reviews,
but I haven't seen it yet.

The second edition of "Programming Python" by Lutz is due out in March
from O'Reilly, and I anticipate that it will be something you'll want to
evaluate once it comes out.

There are a couple of other "Buecher auf Deutsch" that I haven't seen an
English equivalent of, so I can't judge them. Look at
http://www.amk.ca/bookstore/non-english.html .

Hope that helps. Have fun.
>KFW


From tismer at tismer.com  Mon Jan  8 11:15:55 2001
From: tismer at tismer.com (Christian Tismer)
Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2001 18:15:55 +0200
Subject: ANN: Stackless Python 2.0
References: <3A58EFC3.5A722FF0@tismer.com> <20010108180616.A18993@yetix.sz-sb.de>
Message-ID: <3A59E7BB.6908B7E2@tismer.com>


Andreas Jung wrote:
> 
> On Mon, Jan 08, 2001 at 12:37:55AM +0200, Christian Tismer wrote:
> > Dear community,
> >
> > I'm happy to announce that
> >
> >               Stackless Python 2.0
> >
> > is finally ready and available for download.
> >
> > Stackless Python for Python 1.5.2+ also got some minor
> > enhancements. Both versions are available as Win32
> > installer files here:
> 
> Are there patches available against the standard Python 2.0
> source code tree ?

I had no time yet to put the source trees on the web.
Should happen in one or two days.
The I will probably not provide patches, hoping that
some other Unix people will catch up and provide that
part. This worked the same for the 1.5.2 version.

The 2.0 port consists of 10 or so files, which can be used
as direct replacements for the same files in the 2.0 distro.
I think on Unix this is the right way to go.
For me it is simpler to have my own litle tree, since I'm
working with Windows, and I just have to modify my VC++
project file.

ciao - chris

-- 
Christian Tismer             :^)   <mailto:tismer at tismer.com>
Mission Impossible 5oftware  :     Have a break! Take a ride on Python's
Kaunstr. 26                  :    *Starship* http://starship.python.net
14163 Berlin                 :     PGP key -> http://wwwkeys.pgp.net
PGP Fingerprint       E182 71C7 1A9D 66E9 9D15  D3CC D4D7 93E2 1FAE F6DF
     where do you want to jump today?   http://www.stackless.com



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Mon Jan 29 09:25:19 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 15:25:19 +0100
Subject: How to call a class method from a string representing a class name
References: <3A745F5E.5F035F1D@axionet.com> <951p2j0e8@news2.newsguy.com> <3A74E327.C02A86FC@axionet.com>
Message-ID: <953uge0vkg@news2.newsguy.com>

"Andre Fortin" <andrefor at axionet.com> wrote in message
news:3A74E327.C02A86FC at axionet.com...
    [snip]
> > try:
> >     callable = test.myFunc
> > except (NameError,AttributeError):
> >     pass
> > else:
> >     callable('Some Text')
>
> Using "test.myFunc" returns a "AttributeError: myFunc", since
> "test" is a string.

The quotes are confusing, but I assume you mean that 'test'
is not ITSELF the name of the object, but rather _refers to_
a string which is the name of the object.  If so, then
        callable = eval(test+'.myFunc')
may be the simplest way to apply this "indirectness".

> import sys
> import test
>
> className = 'test'

Why call 'className' what is actually the name of a
MODULE, *NOT* of a class?  Seems confusing.  Or, may
the name be of _something else_ than a module...?

> try:
>     sys.modules[className].myFunc('Some text')
> except KeyError:
>     pass

This will propagate an AttributeError if a module
named 'test' exists but does NOT contain an entry
called 'myFunc' (as well as a TypeError if that
entry exists but is not callable with one argument,
as before).

> Very clean. It avoids both the globals() and vars() calls.
>
> > (a KeyError raised inside 'callable' in your case
> > is silently caught and hidden -- IS that what you want?)
>
> In my case, yes. In this snippet context, what counts is the existence
> of the "test" module.

If you KNOW it's a module (not "just any object
whatsoever") then I guess indexing into sys.modules
is OK.  But, IS this part of the specs?  I saw you
originally specify that you were naming *an object
in the current global namespace*, and sys.modules
does not check that -- if any OTHER module has ever
imported one named 'test', then the entry WILL be
in sys.modules, even if 'THIS module here' has never
heard about it.  So, you're implementing pretty
different specs -- "modules only" as opposed to
any object, "ever imported anywhere" as opposed to
"in the current global namespace".


Alex





From ckrill at qvlinc.com  Sat Jan 20 22:17:12 2001
From: ckrill at qvlinc.com (Coy Krill)
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 19:17:12 -0800
Subject: Blackadder - any opinions?
References: <94c6cu$hl2$1@bob.news.rcn.net>
Message-ID: <3A6A54B7.53ACE70C@qvlinc.com>

Satheesh Babu wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I saw this Python IDE at
> http://www.thekompany.com/products/blackadder/
>
> Personal edition is $49. Just wondering anybody had any
> experience with that before I think of buying it.
>
> Screenshots look good though the site is damn too slow!
>
> Babu
>
> --
> v.s.babu
> vsbabu at erols.com
> http://vsbabu.csoft.net

It hasn't actually been released yet.  I ordered it the day they
announced it and then found out it wouldn't be shipping for several
weeks.  A small bummer, but I can live with it.  I've used PyQt for
several months now and enjoy using it very much.  I'd recommend it just
on the benefits that it will provide (i.e. availability to create PyQt
Windows programs and what appears to be a pretty nice IDE) and also to
help pay for the continuing development of PyQt and it's availability on
free platforms like Linux.

Coy



From isard at localhost.localdomain  Wed Jan 24 16:14:02 2001
From: isard at localhost.localdomain (Carles =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sadurn=ED?= Anguita)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 22:14:02 +0100
Subject: Python and postgreSQL ??
Message-ID: <slrn96uhcq.1u1.isard@localhost.localdomain>

I've search unsuccessfully a tutorial about "attack" postgreSQL with Python.
Can anybody help me?

I would like to write a little program (python/tkinter) for a friend of mine
who wants to mantain data about his costumers and who has no time to learn
too much about computers.


Thanks in advance

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Carles Sadurn? Anguita    |   no hab?a que cumplir promesas,
                          |   el cansancio era de placer,
Quita _mira_la_firma para |   las l?grimas eran de risas...
responder.                |   y parece que a?n fue ayer.
                          |           Los Suaves
------------------------------------------------------------------------


From gerhard.nospam at bigfoot.de  Fri Jan  5 00:40:04 2001
From: gerhard.nospam at bigfoot.de (Gerhard =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 06:40:04 +0100
Subject: Migrating to perl?
References: <3Fa56.4580$of7.216286@news1.atl>
Message-ID: <3A555E34.3E01E4D0@bigfoot.de>

Joel Ricker wrote:
 
> So basically what I'd like to know is, how do the two compare?  Is there an
> easier learning curve with Python?

I can only speak for myself. I have programmed (chronologically) in
Basic, Pascal, C, x86 Assembler, Modula-2, C++, Java, Ada 95, Python, 
and some that I have already forgotten. The one or two times I wanted to
learn Pearl I came to it from an object-oriented background and tried to
start with Perl OOP. I failed, miserably. For me, Perl is very difficult
to learn, perhaps it just does not correspond to my way of thinking. I
wrote Python scripts that helped me do something useful from day one, so
Python was really easy for me to learn. I guess it really depends on the
backround you have. If you are a Unix guru and speak awk and sed as a
native language, then perhaps Perl is what you will love. If you have a
background from structured programming (Pascal!) or object-oriented
programming (Ada 95, Java, C++), then Python might be just the scripting
language you ever dreamed of.

As far as CGI is concerned, I have successfully implemented an
e-commerce web-application with dynamic generation of HTML in Python
(CGI) + MySQL. The Python DB-API helped me to make the web-application
database-agnostic. The Python MySQL-module is IMO very mature, I have
never had any problems with it. There exist Python modules for a lot of
other databases, most of them conform to the Python DB-API, so they can
be easily interchanged. Should be just like Perl DBI. I haven't done
very much with Graphics and Python, apart from generating buttons for
web-pages (I used wxPython for this, an excellent cross-platform GUI
toolkit). There exist several other Python libraries for graphics, the
most prominent would be PIL (Python Imaging Library), but I haven't
tried these.

All in all, I can really recommend Python for CGI scripting.

Gerhard H?ring

PS:

If you need some links, here they are:

The Python tutorial:
http://www.python.org/doc/current/tut/tut.html

Python and databases:
http://www.python.org/topics/database/

Yes, Python 2.0 comes with a CGI and a Cookie module, just download
Python 2.0 and look in the docs.


> Are the modules and add-ons as good as
> perl (ie, Database -- I'm primarily interested in MySQL, CGI, Graphics).

I'd say yes.

> What about OOP?  Is it it a full OO language?

Of course, would you go with anything less? ;-)

> Is it easier than to use than perl?

For me: yes.

> Perl OO just feels like it has been cludged together.

Really? ;-) Or am I just too stupid to get it?

> And lastly, what about the Python community?  Is it friendlier than the perl
> community?  Too many times I've asked questions and all I'll get is pointers
> to documentation, which I've already read and so thats why I'm asking for
> information in the first place.  I understand simple questions for basic or
> novice information will warrant answers like that but not the things I've
> asked.

-- 
Sorry for the fake email, please use the real one below to reply.
contact: g e r h a r d @ b i g f o o t . d e
web:     http://highqualdev.com


From donn at u.washington.edu  Thu Jan 18 13:42:05 2001
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: 18 Jan 2001 18:42:05 GMT
Subject: Python and Industry, IBM I'm afraid
References: <3A63D9E8.F9B74ACE@mjs400.co.uk> <mailman.979631000.28993.python-list@python.org> <941c14$dok$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <mailman.979786609.2939.python-list@python.org> <946evt02mr@news2.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <947ddt$g8a$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>

Quoth "Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com>:
[re AIX ]
|    As I recall, its main
| "here's our horrible surprise of the day for you" feature
| was a malloc that would never return 0 even if you asked
| it for FAR more memory than you had around -- rather, the
| program died horribly later when it actually tried to USE
| the memory it THOUGHT it had allocated...

Never ran into this, thanks maybe to more modest memory requirements.
But AIX's malloc is somewhat notorious for the converse:  request
0 bytes and get a null pointer.  I guess the rationale for this is
something like "ask a silly question, get a silly answer", and it
still does that to this day.

When things are not going well on an AIX port, another thing to think
about is a compiler flag, I believe it's -qchars=signed, that reverses
their unusual unsigned char default.

	Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu


From mfletch at tpresence.com  Thu Jan 11 01:03:54 2001
From: mfletch at tpresence.com (Mike Fletcher)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 01:03:54 -0500
Subject: Reflection: Calling Methods Dynamically by Name
Message-ID: <CC59868A0A76D311B1F50090277B321C1F37A2@VRTMAIL>

method = getattr( objectInstance, someString )
method( "Data", 1, 3)

or

apply( method, arguments )

Note that str is a builtin function for converting objects to strings, so
it's not generally used as a variable in Python.

HTH,
Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: harrc at my-deja.com
To: python-list at python.org
Sent: 1/11/2001 12:22 AM
Subject: Reflection: Calling Methods Dynamically by Name

Question for Guido or language experts:

Does Python have the ability to call methods of a class by name?  For
example, I have a string: "ProcessData" and the class MyClass has a
method called ProcessData.  Is there a way I can do something like this:

mc = MyClass()
str = "ProcessData"
args = ("Data", 1, 3)
CallMethodByName(mc, str, args)

or perhaps:

mc = MyClass()
str = "ProcessData"
args = ("Data", 1, 3)
mc.CallMethodByName(str, args)


This reflection-esque behavior would be very useful.  Any ideas?

Thanks,

Chad Harrington



Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/
-- 
http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list



From john at coastalgeology.org  Mon Jan 22 22:31:31 2001
From: john at coastalgeology.org (Jonathan Pennington)
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 22:31:31 -0500
Subject: XML doc generation
Message-ID: <20010122223131.A31348@coastalgeology.org>

>If you understand how to put raw text tags then I would suggest you
>just do that as the simplest thing. I've been processing XML for a
>long, long time and I hardly ever find it easier to build a tree and
>then serialize it. It is more often best to do the simplest thing... 

Well, I trust your judgement there. As a reformed perl and PHP
programmer, I can write text into a file in my sleep :-) However, one
last question. If I wanted to download this coordinate info, then
manipulate it as a DOM, would that still be easier. In other words, as
stated above, I would download data from the receiver directly into an
XML file, then parse the XML file into memory, display/manipulate it,
then rewrite it to the file when saved. Do I understand correctly. It
does sound easy enough, I just want to make sure that I'm not missing
something or making things difficult with all that file I/O. Thanks.

-J
-- 
Jonathan Pennington		| http://coastalgeology.org
Site Manager			| Protection and stewardship
CoastalGeology.Org (CGO)	| through public education.
john at coastalgeology.org		| Join CGO, make a difference.



From mwh21 at cam.ac.uk  Thu Jan 25 15:47:32 2001
From: mwh21 at cam.ac.uk (Michael Hudson)
Date: 25 Jan 2001 20:47:32 +0000
Subject: python-2.1 function attributes
References: <ul3snm8dfae.fsf@smaug.fsl.noaa.gov> <m3n1cgzvpj.fsf@atrus.jesus.cam.ac.uk> <mailman.980365468.12711.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m33de7z7dn.fsf@atrus.jesus.cam.ac.uk>

barry at digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw) writes:

> >>>>> "MH" == Michael Hudson <mwh21 at cam.ac.uk> writes:
> 
>     MH> I suspect if you can come up with a decent syntax, it will go
>     MH> in.  I can't though.  Any ideas?
> 
> That's definitely been the problem so far.  Function attribute tend to
> be very useful even without the syntax, but I think many people agree
> that an inline syntax a la docstrings would make the feature even more
> useful.  So far, no one's come up with an acceptable syntax.  My
> inclination would be to open a new PEP for just the syntax proposal,
> referencing PEP 232 for the underlying implementation and access
> rules.

Ooh, I've come up with a strawman!

One concrete idea: lose the dict analogy.  It's only an implementation
detail, and being able to have attributes whose names aren't strings
is bonkers.  The nearest equivalent in contemporary Python is the
class statement, let's ape that.

Now some ideas:

def f(a, b, c)
 .publish = 1
 .secure = 0:
    print "bobbins"

Don't really like having the colon-free indent.

def f(a, b, c) with:
  publish = 1
  secure = 0:
    print "bobbins"

I think this is my favourite that I've seen yet.  Should be done with
an "as"-like hack to avoid making is a keyword.  The double indent is
a bit naff, but I can't see a way of clearly distinguishing attributes
from code without something like that.

Maybe a variant:

def f(a, b, c) with publish = 1; secure = 0:
    print "bobbins"

Then you use backslashes when the attribute or argument list get long.

def f(long_name, even_longer_name, still_longer_name) \
        with publish = 1; secure = 0
             grammar = f_grammar:
    print "bobbins"

Thoughts?

Cheers,
M.

-- 
  This is an off-the-top-of-the-head-and-not-quite-sober suggestion,
  so is probably technically laughable.  I'll see how embarassed I
  feel tomorrow morning.            -- Patrick Gosling, ucam.comp.misc


From thomas at xs4all.net  Tue Jan 30 03:59:28 2001
From: thomas at xs4all.net (Thomas Wouters)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 09:59:28 +0100
Subject: "in" for dicts (was: Python 2.1 function attributes)
In-Reply-To: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCCEBHIMAA.tim.one@home.com>; from tim.one@home.com on Mon, Jan 29, 2001 at 06:23:59PM -0500
References: <954f49$b3k$1@news.udel.edu> <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCCEBHIMAA.tim.one@home.com>
Message-ID: <20010130095928.A962@xs4all.nl>

On Mon, Jan 29, 2001 at 06:23:59PM -0500, Tim Peters wrote:

> we also haven't pulled the platform-dependent tricks Perl does to optimize
> char-at-a-time reading the way vendors *should* optimize fgets() but almost
> never do (Tru64 Unix appears to be the sole probable exception to date).

FreeBSD, actually, had insane performance in that area as well. (getc()
being just as fast as getc_unlocked(), in processes with only a single
thread active.)

-- 
Thomas Wouters <thomas at xs4all.net>

Hi! I'm a .signature virus! copy me into your .signature file to help me spread!



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Tue Jan  2 16:49:22 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2001 22:49:22 +0100
Subject: HTML Parsing
References: <Vvq46.6762$ca.70091@typhoon.jacksonville.mediaone.net>
Message-ID: <92tk07074s@news1.newsguy.com>

"Denis Voitenko" <richmedium at mediaone.net> wrote in message
news:Vvq46.6762$ca.70091 at typhoon.jacksonville.mediaone.net...
> I am trying to do some HTML parsing with htmllib but not getting anywhere.
> Can someone give a couple of basic examples?

Classic basic example #1: list links from an HTML page that
you have in a diskfile:

import htmllib
import formatter

parser=htmllib.HTMLParser(formatter.NullFormatter())
parser.feed(open('thepage.html').read())
parser.close()

print parser.anchorlist

Particularly easy, because links are specially processed by
the supplied HTML parser class, so you need no inheriting
and overriding for customization purposes.  But, when you
do, things aren't that much harder.  E.g., say that what you
need are the SRC urls of all IMG tags on the page...:

import htmllib
import formatter

class MyParser(htmllib.HTMLParser):
    def __init__(self, formatterObject):
        htmllib.HTMLParser.__init__(self, formatterObject)
        self.image_sources = []
    def do_img(self, attributes):
        for name,value in attributes:
            if name=='src':
                self.image_sources.append(value)

parser=MyParser(formatter.NullFormatter())
parser.feed(open('thepage.html').read())
parser.close()

print parser.image_sources

Since the <IMG> tag does not require a closing tag, it is
handled by a method called do_img (not start_img and
end_img, for opening and closing tags, as others would
require).  The attributes argument is a list of name/value
pairs (2-element tuples), so we just loop on it in our
subclass's overriding do_img method to identify the SRC
attribute[s] and record their values.


Alex





From aahz at panix.com  Fri Jan 26 10:56:00 2001
From: aahz at panix.com (Aahz Maruch)
Date: 26 Jan 2001 07:56:00 -0800
Subject: xor operator?
References: <20010126125141.18593.qmail@nw128.netaddress.usa.net> <mailman.980517875.10931.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <94s6mg$ju8$1@panix6.panix.com>

In article <mailman.980517875.10931.python-list at python.org>,
Thomas Wouters  <thomas at xs4all.net> wrote:
>
>What construction do you need the boolean xor operation for ? Isn't it more
>obvious to use an if/elif/else contstruction ?

In my case, it was to ensure that one-and-only-one variable was set in a
Token class.  Okay, so it was a little cutesy and not particularly
generalizable, but it was the most compact way of representing the
actual control flow at that point.
-- 
                      --- Aahz (Copyright 2001 by aahz at pobox.com)

Androgynous poly kinky vanilla queer het    <*>     http://www.rahul.net/aahz/
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6

'I'm not in the mood to say "yes" today.' --SJM


From gerhard.nospam at bigfoot.de  Wed Jan 31 15:47:56 2001
From: gerhard.nospam at bigfoot.de (Gerhard =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 21:47:56 +0100
Subject: Perl-to-Python converter/translator?
References: <959jsd$njn$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <3A7879FC.EA879C9B@bigfoot.de>

Lance Sloan wrote:
> 
> I'm an experienced Perl programmer who has just been assigned
> a project that must be done in Python.  I'm looking for a
> Perl-to-Python translator to help me out.  I don't expect to
> write the whole project in Perl and translate it, though.  I'm
> just looking for some automation to help me see how my old work
> could be done in Python.
> 
> I didn't find anything useful via Google or Vaults of Parnassus
> searches.  So, I would appreciate any pointers!

Maybe the Perl/Python phrasebook at
http://starship.python.net/~da/jak/cookbook.html is helpful to you.
Intra-document links don't work. Does anybody know a better version of
this document?

Gerhard
-- 
Sorry for the fake email, please use the real one below to reply.
contact: g e r h a r d @ b i g f o o t . d e
web:     http://highqualdev.com


From mfletch at tpresence.com  Mon Jan 15 12:15:34 2001
From: mfletch at tpresence.com (Mike Fletcher)
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 12:15:34 -0500
Subject: pattern matching in python
Message-ID: <CC59868A0A76D311B1F50090277B321C1F37B3@VRTMAIL>

Ah, but if I were to be resurrected by the power of the Tim, would not the
people wonder if I had been corrupted by that power?  After all, my animated
corpse would probably start wandering around and eating whitespace and such
horrors.  No, I'll stay here in my quaint little cell. Growing up in Canada
has made me appreciate the wonders of hot places, and my new keeper (the
pointy-horned one) says I can still post to c.l.py if I promise to make it
content-free.

And you can drop the pretence now. We all know "Tim" is just a bot whose
power supply is held closely in the dictator's right hand.  You're not to
blame, I suppose.  Bots are notoriously given to self-preservation.  Still,
you might come up with a more "sticky" adjective than "perfidious bones".

In example:
	Dang his too-sweet-to-eat strope-waffling second-hand pronouncements
on critical language features! ;-) 
	Darn his diamond-clear-language!  Where are the braces? :o)
	Drat him!  When will we be freed from this infinite white space?
Where is the spirit of the whitespace-eating nanovirus to free us?

You'll have to clean up the hyphenation yourself, that's bot work ;o) .
*poof*

-----Original Message-----
From: Tim Peters [mailto:tim.one at home.com]
Sent: Friday, January 12, 2001 5:11 PM
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: RE: pattern matching in python


[Tim]
...
Curse me?!  I'm not Guido.  I curse him too, damn his perfidious Dutch
bones.
...
feel-free-to-resurrect-if-it's-not-too-late-ly y'rs  - tim
...



From k1e2i3t4h5r6a7y at 1m2a3c4.5c6o7m  Sat Jan 20 18:12:41 2001
From: k1e2i3t4h5r6a7y at 1m2a3c4.5c6o7m (Keith Ray)
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 23:12:41 GMT
Subject: Calling Java Code from CPython (1.5.2 or 2.0)
References: <93mdfs$g7q$1@nyheter.chalmers.se> <k1e2i3t4h5r6a7y-D29C0F.20044016012001@news> <9471cn$smc$1@violet.singnet.com.sg>
Message-ID: <k1e2i3t4h5r6a7y-5B6AB0.15124120012001@news>

In article <9471cn$smc$1 at violet.singnet.com.sg>, ngps at post1.com (Ng 
Pheng Siong) wrote:

> According to Keith Ray  <k1e2i3t4h5r6a7y at 1m2a3c4.5c6o7m>:
> > I could also imagine a CPython module using JNI functions and Java 
> > reflection to do a more general-purpose bridge for python. Create 
> > python 
> > objects that are bridges to java objects. Forwarding python method 
> > calls 
> > to the java objects, converting basic CPython types into Java 
> > equivalents for argument passing...
> 
> Take a look at Inter-Language Unification (ILU):
> 
>     ftp://ftp.parc.xerox.com/pub/ilu/ilu.html


Yes, I've looked at that in the past. I was thinking of a light-weight 
bridge like the Objective-C <-> Java bridge that Apple implement in the 
open-source Darwin code, WebObjects, and MacOS X.

see

<http://devworld.apple.com/techpubs/macosx/Cocoa/ProgrammingTopics/JavaBr
idge/JavaBridge.5.html>

and

<http://devworld.apple.com/techpubs/webobjects/System/Documentation/Devel
oper/WebObjects/Topics/ProgrammingTopics.b.html>

-- 
       <http://homepage.mac.com/keithray/resume.html>


From fredrik at effbot.org  Fri Jan  5 05:42:33 2001
From: fredrik at effbot.org (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 10:42:33 GMT
Subject: Tkinter and option database
References: <9347jc$6iu$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <tyh56.3818$Qb7.494106@newsb.telia.net>

bakaikoa at my-deja.com wrote:
> Any hint, do you know of a way of assigning a Tk name
> to a widget?

http://www.pythonware.com/library/tkinter/introduction/x147-more-on-widget-names.htm

    "If you really need to specify the name of a widget, you
    can use the name option when you create the widget.

    In the following example, the resulting widget is named
    ".dialog.ok" (or, if you forgot to name the dialog, some-
    thing like ".1428748.ok"):

        ok = Button(dialog, name="ok")

(follow the link for more info)

Hope this helps!

Cheers /F






From fredrik at effbot.org  Tue Jan  9 10:55:42 2001
From: fredrik at effbot.org (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2001 15:55:42 GMT
Subject: escape sequences and string comparisons
References: <93cboe$ctj$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <93elo7$aoh$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <93f1rd$iv7$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <2wG66.4330$AH6.750256@newsc.telia.net>

jkndeja at my-deja.com talks to himself again:
> - I still think this makes re.escape() less useful than it
> might be. How about a function which turns a string into an 'escaped'
> form such that it would be an 'exact' RE match with itself?

That's *exactly* what re.escape() does, of course.

Cheers /F




From jh at web.de  Tue Jan 23 18:04:58 2001
From: jh at web.de (Jürgen Hermann)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 00:04:58 +0100
Subject: [ANN] MoinMoin 0.8
Message-ID: <94l379$186$05$1@news.t-online.com>

A WikiWikiWeb is a collaborative hypertext environment, with an emphasis
on easy access to and modification of information. MoinMoin is a Python
WikiClone that allows you to easily set up your own wiki, only requiring
a Web server and a Python installation (1.5.2, 1.6 or 2.0).

This release adds page templates, an include macro, pluggable actions
including a very nice spell checker and "LikePages" navigation. The
keywords found via the fulltext search are now highlighted. Finally,
"RecentChanges" now shows diffs against the version you last viewed
(possibly spanning several changes), which makes it much easier to
keep yourself up to date with a wiki's evolution.


Homepage:
    http://moin.sourceforge.net/

Download:
    http://download.sourceforge.net/moin/

Mailing lists:
    http://lists.dragon-ware.com/mailman/listinfo/moin-users
    http://lists.dragon-ware.com/mailman/listinfo/moin-dev


New features:
    * Page templates (create a new page using a template page, by Richard)
    * Pluggable actions (by Richard)
    * Added "diff since bookmark"
    * Only "normal" URLs (outside of brackets) are converted to inline imgs
    * Show number of backups in SystemInfo macro
    * Show info on installed extension macros and actions
    * New macro: [[BR]] for line breaks
    * New action "LikePages" (again, Richard)
    * Highlighting of search results, and of bad words when spellchecking
    * Support for "file:" URLS
    * "SpellCheck" action (Richard, me, and Christian)
    * [[Include]] macro (you guessed it, Richard)

Bugfixes:
    * Update bookmark with load time, not click time
    * Changed CSS styles to better suit Netscape's broken handling of CSS





From gry at ll.mit.edu  Thu Jan 25 15:49:06 2001
From: gry at ll.mit.edu (George Young)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 15:49:06 -0500
Subject: Python and postgreSQL ??
References: <slrn96uhcq.1u1.isard@localhost.localdomain> <94pdkp$b9n$1@saltmine.radix.net>
Message-ID: <3A709142.29B4FA9A@ll.mit.edu>

Cary O'Brien wrote:
> 
<sadurni_mira_la_firma at jazzfree.com> wrote:
> >I've search unsuccessfully a tutorial about "attack" postgreSQL with Python.
> >Can anybody help me?
...
> You may want to check out Zope (http://www.zope.org).  Zope is a web
> application framework that has pretty good support for PostgreSQL (you
...

You may also wish to consider the other postgresql/python interface
package, PoPy:  http://popy.sourceforge.net

I find it quite useful.
-- 
Your mouse has moved.
Windows NT must be restarted for the change to take effect.
Reboot now?  [OK]


From s2mdalle at titan.vcu.edu  Sat Jan 27 13:50:00 2001
From: s2mdalle at titan.vcu.edu (David Allen)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 18:50:00 GMT
Subject: Creating files.
References: <3A72FDD0.2C1206CF@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <sLEc6.4235$xn.1154049@typhoon2.ba-dsg.net>

In article <3A72FDD0.2C1206CF at hotmail.com>, "joonas" <keisari_ at hotmail.com>
wrote:

> Is there any functions in Python for creating files?
> 
> Joonas.

Open it for writing, and that's about it.  

fp = open("somefile", "w")
fp.flush()
fp.close()

Congrats, "somefile" now exists with a 0 size.

Alternately, you could through the shell "touch"
the file if you're on a unix system.

-- 
David Allen
http://opop.nols.com/
----------------------------------------
"As soon as we started programming, we found to our surprise that it wasn't as 
easy to get programs right as we had thought. Debugging had to be discovered. 
I can remember the exact instant when I realized that a large part of my life 
from then on was going to be spent in finding mistakes in my own programs." 
	- Maurice Wilkes discovers debugging, 1949


From pekko at iki.fi  Tue Jan 23 08:43:04 2001
From: pekko at iki.fi (Pekko Piirola)
Date: 23 Jan 2001 13:43:04 GMT
Subject: Compiling Python 2.0 in DEC Alpha?
Message-ID: <slrn96r2j8.g68.pekko@soul.helsinki.fi>

I'm trying to compile python-2.0 in DEC Alpha, which is running
Digital UNIX V4.0F (Rev. 1229).  After reading the README and the man
page of cc I figured out the commands I need to build the interpreter:
(I have already edited the Modules/Setup)


CC=cc OPT='-std -arch host -fast -D_REENTRANT -pthread' \
LDFLAGS='-pthread -lpthread -lmach -lexc -lc' \
./configure --prefix=/usr/local/contrib --with-dec-threads


make CC=cc OPT='-std -arch host -fast -D_REENTRANT -pthread' \
LDFLAGS='-pthread -lpthread -lmach -lexc -lc' 2>&1 | tee make.output-1


./configure runs nicely but make stops with the following error message:

--------------------- clip clip clip ----------------------
( .... some stuff deleted ... )
make[1]: Entering directory `/scratch/ppiirola/Python-2.0/Modules'
rm -f hassignal
for i in threadmodule.o  gcmodule.o  bsddbmodule.o  regexmodule.o regexpr.o \
  pcremodule.o pypcre.o  posixmodule.o  signalmodule.o  _sre.o \ 
  arraymodule.o  cmathmodule.o  mathmodule.o  stropmodule.o  structmodule.o \
  timemodule.o  operator.o  _codecsmodule.o  unicodedata.o unicodedatabase.o \
  ucnhash.o  _localemodule.o fcntlmodule.o  pwdmodule.o  grpmodule.o \
  errnomodule.o  selectmodule.o  socketmodule.o  mmapmodule.o  md5module.o \
  md5c.o  shamodule.o  rotormodule.o  newmodule.o  binascii.o  parsermodule.o \
  cStringIO.o  cPickle.o config.o getpath.o main.o getbuildinfo.o; do \
            if test "$i" = "signalmodule.o"; then \
               echo yes >hassignal; break; \
            fi; \
        done
make[1]: Leaving directory `/scratch/ppiirola/Python-2.0/Modules'
cd Parser ; make OPT="-std -arch host -fast -D_REENTRANT -pthread" \
  VERSION="2.0" prefix="/usr/local/contrib" exec_prefix="/usr/local/contrib" \
  all
make[1]: Entering directory `/scratch/ppiirola/Python-2.0/Parser'
cc -std -arch host -fast -D_REENTRANT -pthread -I./../Include -I.. \
  -DHAVE_CONFIG_H   -c -o pgenmain.o pgenmain.c
cc: Error: ./../Include/pyport.h, line 390: #error \
  "LONG_BIT definition appears wrong for platform (bad gcc config?)." \
  (errormessage)
#error "LONG_BIT definition appears wrong for platform (bad gcc config?)."
-^
make[1]: *** [pgenmain.o] Error 1
make[1]: Leaving directory `/scratch/ppiirola/Python-2.0/Parser'
make: *** [Parser] Error 2
--------------------------- clip clip clip ----------------------

Does anyone have an idea what's going wrong or, better yet, how to
compile Python succesfully?  Is there a bug in the source or in my
setup?

The compiler I'm using is DEC C V5.9-008 on Digital UNIX V4.0
(Rev. 1229), the make is GNU make 3.79.1 and the source is
downloaded straight from Python's server.


-- 
Pekko


From zeitlin at seth.lpthe.jussieu.fr  Mon Jan 29 10:01:17 2001
From: zeitlin at seth.lpthe.jussieu.fr (Vadim Zeitlin)
Date: 29 Jan 2001 15:01:17 GMT
Subject: Tkinter vs wxPython: your opinions?
References: <3A6F899F.E164F628@home.com> <952lo9$qme$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <m4ir91nf1l2.fsf@macquarie.com.au>
Message-ID: <slrn97b1b1.jcj.zeitlin@seth.lpthe.jussieu.fr>

On 29 Jan 2001 15:02:01 +1100, Timothy Docker <timd at macquarie.com.au> wrote:
>Neither tkinter or wxWindows are thread-safe in the sense that
>multiple threads can make arbitrary GUI calls simultaneously (I'm not
>aware of any GUI toolkits that are thread-safe in this sense).

 This is not completely true: wxWindows does support multiple GUI threads
but they are still multiplexed internally using a mutex. So, in principle,
you can have multiple GUI threads running simultaneously as the thread sample
in wxWindows distribution shows (it is in C++ though).

 However, having only one GUI thread and several worker threads is by far the
preferred approach.

 Regards,
VZ

-- 
GCS/GM d? H+ s++:-- p2 au--- a- w+ v C+++ UBLS+++ P- L++ N++ E--- W++++ M? V--
-po+ R++ G`` !tv b+++ D--- e++++ u++ h--- f+ r++ n- y?


From scarblac at pino.selwerd.nl  Mon Jan  8 08:20:05 2001
From: scarblac at pino.selwerd.nl (Remco Gerlich)
Date: 8 Jan 2001 13:20:05 GMT
Subject: escape sequences and string comparisons
References: <93cboe$ctj$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <slrn95jfdi.2b2.scarblac@pino.selwerd.nl>

jkndeja at my-deja.com <jkndeja at my-deja.com> wrote in comp.lang.python:
> Since re.escape() simply uses the criterion of 'non-alphanumeric
> character' to determine whether to escape a character, is there an
> alternative function to 'escape only characters used in string literal
> escapes', am I on my own, or am I missing something?

Simply using repr (or `` backquotes) gives the string as a string literal,
with the necessary things escaped. The only thing is that if there are '
quotes in the string, they aren't escaped, but instead "" quotes are used
to surround the string (and vice versa).

>>> x = '\\'
>>> len(x)
1
>>> print repr(x)
'\\'
>>> x = "'"
>>> print repr(x)
"'"

So maybe you can use this, maybe you can't.

-- 
Remco Gerlich


From jan.dries at dcube-resource.be  Sat Jan 13 10:10:06 2001
From: jan.dries at dcube-resource.be (Jan Dries)
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 16:10:06 +0100
Subject: is Python fully object oriented ?
References: <20010110184830.13286.00000826@ng-fg1.aol.com> <3A5E5C21.3E036BFE@intelligenesis.net> <3A5E935D.CF641658@dcube-resource.be> <mailman.979279694.10695.python-list@python.org> <93mhr60e7e@news1.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <3A606FCE.642F495@dcube-resource.be>

Alex Martelli wrote:
> I forget the origin of the quote, but -- "there are two approaches
> to [coding]: make it so complex there are no obvious flaws, or,
> make it so simple there are obviously no flaws".

The original quote is this:

"There are two ways of constructing a software design; one way is to
make it so simple that there are obviously no deficiencies, and the
other way is to make it so complicated that there are no obvious 
deficiencies. The first method is far more difficult." 
     - C. A. R. Hoare 

Jan



From buster2642 at my-deja.com  Thu Jan  4 21:00:49 2001
From: buster2642 at my-deja.com (buster2642 at my-deja.com)
Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 02:00:49 GMT
Subject: newbie : edit sys.path on WinNT
Message-ID: <9339sf$fit$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

I just installed NumPy16_152 into my 'D:\Program Files\Python' folder.
How do I "permanently" add this to sys.path so 'import Numeric'
succeeds?  I may or may not have admin access to the NT box to do this..

(http://sourceforge.net/projects/numpy has NumPy zip archives for
Python 1.52/1.6/2.0 on Win32)

Thanks

Chuck


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From dsh8290 at rit.edu  Wed Jan  3 20:13:28 2001
From: dsh8290 at rit.edu (D-Man)
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2001 20:13:28 -0500
Subject: Registering C methods when writing a C extension type?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.10.10101031440140.12743-100000@hadamard.llnl.gov>; from tepperly@llnl.gov on Wed, Jan 03, 2001 at 03:18:58PM -0800
References: <Pine.GSO.4.10.10101031440140.12743-100000@hadamard.llnl.gov>
Message-ID: <20010103201328.A7834@westsidecnc.rh.rit.edu>

Since you have an IDL, doesn't the object already exist?

If so, you might want to use one of the python bindings for CORBA
instead.  For example on sourceforge there is Orbit-Python.


Sorry but I don't know anything about extending python in C.

-D

On Wed, Jan 03, 2001 at 03:18:58PM -0800, Tom Epperly wrote:
> I planning to write a C extension type (not module) to provide a Python
> binding for an object or interface defined in an IDL (interface definition
> language) for high performance scientific computing.



From alan.gauld at gssec.bt.co.uk  Wed Jan 10 10:00:21 2001
From: alan.gauld at gssec.bt.co.uk (Alan Gauld)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 15:00:21 +0000
Subject: Should I learn Python or Java?
References: <HEO56.5504$y9.2881293@typhoon.we.rr.com>
Message-ID: <3A5C7905.A14D24F0@gssec.bt.co.uk>

Charlotte Williams wrote:
>     I am a Visual Basic programmer who wants to increase his knowledge of
> programming languages.  

> I notice that there is a lot of demand for Java programmers.  The only
> experience I have with an OO language is Smalltalk.   My questions are:

> 1.  Which language would be best to learn, Java or Python.  From a VB
> standpoint, which has the least learning curve?

Given the above the answer must be Python.
Python allows you something like the smalltalk workspace for
trying 
out object methods etc on the fly(the interactive prompt/IDLE)
and 
doesn't have the rigid typechecking etc that Java has. Strict
typing 
of variabvles is the biggest shock you are likely to find using
Java, 
not the OO aspects!

Python is also more efficient in terms of the number of lines of
code 
to do a given task(around half as many IME) compared to Java (and
even 
less than VB for non GUI work).

[ On the other hand there are several good Java IDEs which are
more 
  like VB for GUI programming.]

But overall, and especially from the language perspective Python
is 
a much better bet. but if you look at it from an employment view
I'd 
have to say Java...

> 2.  Is going from object-based to object-oriented programming that huge a
> jump?   

Yes. The whjole thinking about OO projects changes when you have 
real polymorphism and ingheritance available. This changes the 
way you ddesign and build applications considerably. Don't 
underestimate the jump but OTOH its certainly not impossible 
and if you have done much smalltalk  then you may already be 
using VB in an OO way as far as is possible.

> 3. Which one is the most "fun" to program in?

Python - its just so much faster to get something working and 
then evolve it as far as you need to go.

> 4.  Is Python multi-platform?  

Yes, more so than Java I suspect.

> How is it's performance compared to JAVA in an internet situation?  

Not quite sure what you mean by the last bit but its at least 
as fast as the Microsoft JVM. I believe the new JIT compilers
(hotspot etc ) might give Java a lead here.

> It's reliability?
If you write good programs they are as good as each other
(see another current thread!)

> 5.  Do you for see Python as becoming a major player like 
> Java servlets and MTS?  Can you see Python demand 
> outstripping Java demand in 2 years time?

Unfortunately not. Python is growing and there are certainly 
jobs around but Java is HUGE just now.

> I'm really interested in hearing from VB programmers that decided to jump
> into one or both of the languages,  

I came to Python from C++/Delphi/Smalltalk and Java with a 
smattering of VB5(CCE).

Alan G.
-- 
=================================================
This post represents the views of the author 
and does not necessarily accurately represent 
the views of BT.


From sharmad at im.eth.net  Sat Jan 27 00:12:44 2001
From: sharmad at im.eth.net (Sharmad  Naik)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 10:42:44 +0530
Subject: compiling Python with PostgrSQL
Message-ID: <00eb01c08820$3d02d260$25090b3d@SharmadNaik>

I want to compile python with postgres
    so initially while compiling postgres i did
./configure --with-python
later i went to /postgres7-.0.2/src/interfaces/python
copied pymodule.c where Setup file is and added a line as instructed in the README file
    but the moment i issue the first command i get an error given in the attachment
Please if possible have a look at it
    i donot know what to do.please help me
TIA
Sharmad
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From grante at visi.com  Wed Jan 10 14:56:14 2001
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 19:56:14 GMT
Subject: Silly question from a newbie
References: <S7M66.23342$0x5.1988326@news3.cableinet.net> <93hk9p$g5m$1@newshost.accu.uu.nl>
Message-ID: <y7376.7$Kl.2602@ruti.visi.com>

In article <93hk9p$g5m$1 at newshost.accu.uu.nl>, Martijn Faassen wrote:

>> I downloaded the 'Grail' browser made with Python.... but,
>> being someone who only just heard of Python 2 days ago, I don't
>> know how to start the Grail browser.

[...]

>Hm, I'm not quite sure what the status of Grail is, but it
>hasn't been worked on for some years, as far as I know. So I'm
>not entirely sure if it's in running condition.

I tried it a few months ago and couldn't get it to work (I
didn't spend much time on it).  If you're looking for example
Python apps, I'd probably recommend something else.  

If you want to see a full-up Tk app, sketch is pretty cool:

       http://sketch.sourceforge.net/

If you want to look at something trivial (but still cool, IMO),
I've done a demo of the 8-queens puzzle at:

       ftp://ftp.visi.com/users/grante/python/queens.py

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  Hey, LOOK!! A pair of
                                  at               SIZE 9 CAPRI PANTS!! They
                               visi.com            probably belong to SAMMY
                                                   DAVIS, JR.!!


From dsh8290 at rit.edu  Wed Jan 24 16:36:06 2001
From: dsh8290 at rit.edu (D-Man)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 16:36:06 -0500
Subject: PSU uses emacs?
In-Reply-To: <3a6eb2fa.2347467@reading.news.pipex.net>; from ray_drew@yahoo.co.uk on Wed, Jan 24, 2001 at 10:56:42AM +0000
References: <948e4b$hm0$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <948fvj$oq1$1@panix6.panix.com> <3A67CDC3.7EACB07D@Lugoj.Com> <9490t009on@news2.newsguy.com> <3a685ef2.3403798@reading.news.pipex.net> <949rii0a76@news1.newsguy.com> <3a6eb2fa.2347467@reading.news.pipex.net>
Message-ID: <20010124163605.A26798@harmony.cs.rit.edu>

On Wed, Jan 24, 2001 at 10:56:42AM +0000, Ray Drew wrote:
| [snip]
| 
| I'm having problems getting the indentation right with gvim. I've got
| the following in my .vimrc file:
| 
| au FileType py set ts=4
| au FileType py set sw=4
| au FileType py set expandtab on 
| au FileType py set ff=unix
| 
| as far as I can make out from the docs, this should set those options
| for all .py files. Tabs appear as 4 chars in gvim but when viewed in
| an IDLE edtor window, tabs appear as 8 and throw a syntax error when
| imported (files originally created in IDLE with tab space of 4). Do I
| need to do anything else to get this to work?

This results from the interpreter counting a <TAB> character as equal
to 8 spaces, but you are looking at it like it is 4.  This causes
problems if you mix tabs and spaces.

IMO, you shouldn't set ts at all.  Leave it at 8.  Instead, set sw=4
(as you did) and sts=4 .  sts is softtabstop.  It affects the way vim
acts when you do indentation operations like >> << and press the <TAB>
button on the keyboard.

I leave tabstop=8 and set shiftwidth and softtabstop to the
indentation level I want.  Also, setting expandtab (as you tried to
do) is good for replacing tab chars with space chars (based on the sts
variable) when inserting.  

If you only use space characters in files you will have no trouble
when switching editors.

HTH,
-D

| 
| Ray Drew
| CIA UK
| 



From clarence at netlojix.com  Sun Jan 28 00:21:03 2001
From: clarence at netlojix.com (Clarence Gardner)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 21:21:03 -0800
Subject: . Python 2.1 function attributes
References: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0101270135190.7677-100000@y.glue.umd.edu> <mailman.980593892.725.python-list@python.org> <$5A+ZwAGjtc6EwE0@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <14962.62953.304511.523826@anthem.wooz.org> <mailman.980613639.23439.python-list@python.org> <Pine.GSO.4.21.0101271158190.3501-100000@y.glue.umd.edu>
Message-ID: <980659490.312565807@news.silcom.com>

On Sat, 27 Jan 2001, Roy Katz wrote:
>Given Python's current "there's a right way to do it" motto, and
>its recent TMTOWTDIfication, perhaps a more fitting one would be
>"yeah, but so-and-so came up with a patch, and we couldn't resist, so we
>included it. So deal."  History of the World. Now there is print>> and
>write().  I call for boycotting print>>.  I expect one person, maybe less,
>to support me on that.  

I was somewhat amazed at the addition of print>>, and I assure you that
I will never use it.  But since I consider Guido, et al, as nearly godlike,
and given that the last four years of my programming career have been
much more joyful than they would have been without Python, I have
magnanimously given him a pass on this issue :)

--
Clarence Gardner
Software Engineer
NetLojix Communications
clarence at netlojix.com



From teep at inet.co.th  Sat Jan  6 22:48:15 2001
From: teep at inet.co.th (Prateep Siamwalla)
Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2001 10:48:15 +0700
Subject: Should I learn Python or Java?
References: <HEO56.5504$y9.2881293@typhoon.we.rr.com> <938h6r$26j$1@troll.powertech.no>
Message-ID: <938ops$b51$1@news.inet.co.th>

I second that recommendation.  Awesome book.

Programming python using Mark Hammond's excellent contributions on Win32 +
COM stuff, you'd also find yourself in a better position to interface with
the usual Microsoft suspects (Word/Excel/PPT) than you would, should you be
working in Java.  (Anyone out there, correct me if I am mistaken about this)

-teep


Syver Enstad <syver at NOSPAMcyberwatcher.com> wrote in message
news:938h6r$26j$1 at troll.powertech.no...
> "Charlotte Williams" <charlottwilliams at mediaone.net> wrote in message
> news:HEO56.5504$y9.2881293 at typhoon.we.rr.com...
>
> Hi Charlotte, I don't know what languages you should learn (probably best
to
> learn them all), but for windows programming with Python and considering
> your VB background you really should buy/borrow/steal a copy of Python
> programming on win32 from O'Reilly. I started with Python a couple of
months
> ago with that book and can recommend it warmly.
>
>




From fredrik at effbot.org  Thu Jan 11 14:00:26 2001
From: fredrik at effbot.org (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 19:00:26 GMT
Subject: NewBie: How Can I Scan The Keyboard In Python?
References: <93ku2c$gtr$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <epn76.5525$Qb7.771036@newsb.telia.net>

jbranthoover at my-deja.com wrote:
> Is there a way to scan the keyboard to watch for a key
> closure?

    http://www.python.org/doc/FAQ.html#8.2
    "8.2. How to check for a keypress without blocking?
    "Use the msvcrt module. This is a standard Windows-specific
    extensions in Python 1.5 and beyond. It defines a function
    kbhit() which checks whether a keyboard hit is present; also
    getch() which gets one character without echo. Plus a few
    other goodies."

for more info, see the library reference.

Cheers /F




From quinn at groat.ugcs.caltech.edu  Mon Jan 29 22:08:27 2001
From: quinn at groat.ugcs.caltech.edu (Quinn Dunkan)
Date: 30 Jan 2001 03:08:27 GMT
Subject: Pyditor, Text editor fully extendible in python a la' Emacs
References: <mailman.980635233.16241.python-list@python.org> <slrn978ab9.22c.ebecker@fram.software-manufaktur.de>
Message-ID: <slrn97cc1a.cr9.quinn@groat.ugcs.caltech.edu>

>>  There is already a project like this? (btw, i dont like wily :)

Oops, I responeded saying acme / wily do almost all of these already before
getting here :)  Except they do the 'everything reachable with menus' one
better by having everything reachable in plain sight.  And instead of
'all modules configurable from one interface' it's 'only one interface period,
and no module configuration required' :)

I guess the point is that if you want something just like everything else out
there, but with python, there are a million editors already like that, and
making yet another "new" one only-with-python, or retrofitting python to an
old one is not going to let you do anything you couldn't before.  That's just
my personal experience, having used a number of editors scriptable with
python, and finding out that python added very little (except a lot of extra
code and startup time to the editor).  Maybe just me, though.  wily could
certainly be improved (mostly by becoming more like acme :) i.e. plumbing
instead of hard coded search patterns, better script interface, etc.) but it
seems like a good place to start, unless one disagrees with its There's A
Right Way To Do It principle (if so, why all the interest in python support?
<wink>).


From wolfson at midway.uchicago.edu  Sun Jan 14 23:09:44 2001
From: wolfson at midway.uchicago.edu (Ben Wolfson)
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 04:09:44 GMT
Subject: P*rl in Latin, whither Python?
References: <3A0B62B7.59A43E13@gte.net> <974070178.345720@clam-ext> <mailman.979323254.7670.python-list@python.org> <979516309.507737@clam-ext>
Message-ID: <cKu86.268$v3.4110@uchinews>

In article <979516309.507737 at clam-ext>,
Mark Hadfield <m.hadfield at niwa.cri.nz> wrote:
>"J?rgen A. Erhard" <juergen.erhard at gmx.net> wrote in message
>news:mailman.979323254.7670.python-list at python.org...
>>
>>     Mark> People in glace houses shouldn't throw stones.
>>
>> Just an illustration of the truism that every spelling flame contains
>> at least on [sic] spelling error itself. ;-)
>>
>> PS: Was that "glace" mistake intended? ;-) ;-)
>
>What mistake?
>
>P.S. I've completely forgotten what this thread is about.

This!  Eventually python will look like this!

'''

import rearrangeabuse

(Begin,
 (Import, 'sys'),
 (Print, (Getattr, 'sys', 'argv')))
'''

Which runs fine for me:

C:\Python20>python test1.py
['rearrangeabuse.py', 'test1.py', '2']


-- 
Barnabas T. Rumjuggler
My wine of life is poison mixed with gall.
 -- James Thompson, "The City of Dreadful Night"


From nickm at mit.edu  Mon Jan 15 23:39:47 2001
From: nickm at mit.edu (Nick Mathewson)
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 04:39:47 GMT
Subject: Determining names of instances
References: <e7L86.554$KD3.238565@typhoon.aracnet.com>
Message-ID: <ngQ86.15939$BI2.3974221@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>

On Mon, 15 Jan 2001 14:42:52 -0800, Daniel Klein <DanielK at jBASE.com> wrote:
>A question I hope has a simple answer. Take the following simple class and
>instance
>
>    class foobar:
>        pass
>
>    foo = foobar()
>
>The question is, is there a way for the object 'foo' to know that its name
>is 'foo'?
>
>Daniel Klein

The short answer has been provided by others: not really.

The long answer is: yes, but you wouldn't want to.

# varname.py
from types import *
import sys

# We need python 2
assert sys.version_info[0] >= 2

def varname(object,depth):
    try:
	raise ""
    except:
	frame = sys.exc_traceback.tb_frame.f_back

    seen={}
    refs = [lr[1:] for lr in _searchInDict(object, 
					   frame.f_locals, 
					   depth, 
					   seen, 
					   1) ]
    if frame.f_globals is not frame.f_locals:
	refs += [gr[1:] for gr in _searchInDict(object, 
						frame.f_globals, 
						depth, 
						seen, 
						1) ]
    return refs

def _search(obj, target, depth=1, seen=None):
    if seen is None:
	seen = {}

    #if seen.get(id(target)):
    #	return ()
    #seen[id(target)] = 1
	
    if obj is target:
	return [""]

    if depth <= 0:
	return []

    t = type(target)
    if t is ClassType:
	return _searchInDict(obj, target.__dict__, depth, seen, 1)
    elif t is DictType:
	return _searchInDict(obj, target, depth, seen, 0)
    elif t is InstanceType:
	x = _searchInDict(obj, target.__dict__, depth, seen, 1)
	return x+_searchInDict(obj,target.__class__.__dict__,depth,seen,1)
    elif t in (ListType, TupleType):
	return _searchInSeq(obj, target, depth, seen)
    elif t is ModuleType:
	return _searchInDict(obj, target.__dict__, depth, seen, 1) 

    return []

def _searchInDict(obj,dict,depth,seen,isAttr):
    lst = []
    for k,v in dict.items():
	if v is obj:
	    lst.append( (isAttr and "."+k) or "[%s]"%`k` )
	else:
	    for x in _search(obj,v,depth-1,seen):
		lst.append( (isAttr and ".%s%s" %(k,x)) or "[%s]%s" %(`k`,x) )

    return lst

def _searchInSeq(obj,seq,depth,seen):
    lst = []

    for i in range(len(seq)):
	if seq[i] is obj:
	    lst.append( "["+i+"]")
	elif depth:
	    for x in _search(obj,seq[i],depth-1,seen):
		lst.append("["+i+"]"+x)

    return lst

######
Use:


>>> from varname import varname

>>> x = "Hello world"
>>> varname(x, 1)
['x']
# Ok, that worked...

>>> p=y=t=h=o=n = x
>>> varname(x, 1)
['y', 't', 'p', 'n', 'o', 'h', 'x']
#... but what is the true name of 'x'?

>>> x = "Goodbye simplicity"
>>> varname(x, 6)
["sys.modules['__main__'].x", "sys.modules['sys'].modules['__main__'].x", 'x']
# ... and which of these is the name of 'x' now?

######

The moral is a corolary to Fredrik Lundh's cat analogy: Although your
neighbors (namespaces) can tell you the names they call the cat
(object), and although they can tell you what names that their friends
call the cat -- if you really want the cat (object) to have a name of its
own, you'll need to put a tag around its neck (set an attribute).

Too-much-time-on-my-hands-too-look-in-the-archive-ly y'rs,

-- 
Nick Mathewson     <ZnickZm at alum.mit.edu>    without the zees.


From rickamores at hotmail.com  Tue Jan 23 17:04:51 2001
From: rickamores at hotmail.com (Rick Amores)
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 17:04:51 -0500
Subject: If I was recruiting Python people were is the best place to go
Message-ID: <94kvqa0g4t@enews2.newsguy.com>

Be nice




From m.faassen at vet.uu.nl  Sat Jan  6 00:29:31 2001
From: m.faassen at vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen)
Date: 6 Jan 2001 05:29:31 GMT
Subject: Migrating to perl?
References: <3Fa56.4580$of7.216286@news1.atl> <933fa1$j2i$1@newshost.accu.uu.nl> <ggd56.4652$of7.222552@news1.atl>
Message-ID: <936afr$g8k$1@newshost.accu.uu.nl>

Joel Ricker <joejava at dragonat.net> wrote:
> Martijn Faassen wrote in message <933fa1$j2i$1 at newshost.accu.uu.nl>...
[snip]
> From your examples, Pythons class model is much cleaner.

It definitely looks and feels cleaner to me!

> Also if I understand your example, variables internal to the object are kept
> internal -- they can't be accessed without a proper method.  With perl
> anything goes.  There are some techniques to prevent this but it isn't
> definite.  Its actually this very topic that made me throw my new OO book
> across the room and subscribed to this newsgroup :)

Actually, no; with Python anything goes as well, it's just that we
know to restrain ourselves and generally we don't access attributes
directly. There's an idiomatic way to indicate 'this is private',
which has no practical effect whatsoever, which is to prepend an
underscore in front of the attribute or method you want to be
private (or protected, for that matter):

class Foo:
   def __init__(self):
        self._private = 1
  
   def _privateMethod(self):
        pass

There is also another way that *does* have an effect on the language,
though it doesn't go very deep (it does some name mangling), which is
to prepend two underscores in front of the thing you want to be private.
Note that this also disallows easy use from subclasses and such, so I
generally don't bother to use that and use the single underscore convention.
    
[snip]
> I've mentioned before that I'm real new to OO.  How should I approach it in
> Python?

Python is a nice language to do OO in, I think, because it doesn't
burden you with too much baggage; static type checking in particular
adds a lot of programmer overhead that Python luckily doesn't have. 
That said, it may be possible that static type checking makes OO more
clear for some people -- since Python is very liberal in what it allows
you to do, you do have to know how to restrain yourself.

>  Has anyone learned OO just from Python?  Or should I study OO
> theory else where and then apply it to Python?

I already knew OO before I came to Python, so I don't really know. However,
I'd consider Python a good language to learn OO in, even though it calls
for a little more programmer self-restraint, it isn't very difficult
to do this, and it's not as if C++ or Java don't call for plenty of
programmer discipline all over the place either -- more so than Python.

>  I know this is bordering on
> the question of how do I do OO but I really know very little about it...
> enough to know that I can benefit from it and basic ideas.  I understand the
> idea of a class and building objects from it but anything beyond that is
> still really new to me.  Any suggestions?

What's nice about OO is that it allows you to decouple the interface
from the implementation, and thereby it allows easy forms of polymorphism.
That sounds complicated perhaps, but imagine you have a game which
contains a bunch of objects; monsters of various kinds for instance.
Now imagine we have a list filled with a number of different monsters,
and each type of monster can be activated. When activated the monster
will do something, dependent on what type of monster it is, and perhaps
various other factors.

If you don't use OO in your Python program
(just using classes as a form of record), code to do that may look
somewhat like this:

# just an empty record we'll fill later; an empty dictionary is virtually
# the same in Python, in fact.
class MonsterRecord:
    pass

# create a record for a monster and fill it with data
green_monster = MonsterRecord() 
green_monster.type = "GREEN_MONSTER"
green_monster.strength = 15

# create purple monster
purple_monster = MonsterRecord()
purple_monster.type = "PURPLE_MONSTER"
purple_monster.strength = 10

# create orange monster
orange_monster = MonsterRecord()
orange_monster.type = "ORANGE_MONSTER"
orange_monster.strength = 20

# another one, but weaker
orange_monster2 = MonsterRecord()
orange_monster2.type = "ORANGE_MONSTER"
orange_monster2.strength = 10

# put them in a list
monsters = [green_monster, purple_monster, orange_monster, orange_monster2]

# a function that given a list of monster, performs action for each of them
def perform_actions(monsters):
    for monster in monsters:
        if monster.type == "GREEN_MONSTER":
            print "The monster says: Booh!"
        elif monster.type = "PURPLE_MONSTER":
            print "The monster sings: We are a happy family!"
        elif monster.type = "ORANGE_MONSTER":
            print "The monster says: monster wants orange!"
            if monster.strength > 15:
                print "The monster grabs your orange and eats it!"

# and call the function
perform_actions(monsters)

########################
Now we'll do the same, OO style:

class Monster:
    def __init__(self, strength):
        self.strength = strength

class GreenMonster(Monster):
    def action(self):
        print "The monster says: Booh!"

class PurpleMonster(Monster):
    def action(self):
        print "The monster sings: We are a happy family!"
 
class OrangeMonster(Monster):
    def action(self):
        print "The monster says: monster wants orange!"
        if self.strength > 15:
            print "The monster grabs your orange and eats it!"

# create some monsters and put them in a list
monsters = [GreenMonster(15), PurpleMonster(10), OrangeMonster(20),
            OrangeMonster(10)]

# and the function to perform all actions
def perform_actions(monsters):
    for monster in monsters:
        monster.action()

# let's call it
perform_actions(monsters)

In the OO example I've exploited a number of features generally associated
with OO programming (though good non-OO and OO programming styles aren't
far away):

  * interface/implementation separation leading to polymorphism

    The most important; it's easy to add new monsters with different
    behavior, without having to change anything in perform_actions().
    In the non-OO example, we'd have to extend perform_actions() each
    time we have a new monster. For a single type of action (method)
    this is okay, but in real programs this generally isn't the case;
    and then you'd need to go through your program and add 
    actions all over the place.

    You can do the same with a dictionary (hash table) indexed by
    monster type and returning some function to call, but why do it the
    hard way when there's an easy way (use classes and method).

  * inheritance

    Neat, but less essential to OO than is often thought. Since all
    monsters in my example have a 'strength' attribute, I've made
    all monsters inherit from the 'Monster' superclass, which has..
 
  * a constructor

    A constructor that sets the strength attribute. Constructor functions
    returning a record are of course not hard to do in a non OO way.

I've been talking about monsters in my example, but it could apply to
GUI widgets, or different type of objects that can all be treated as 
files (on disk file, in memory file, even network transparent file if
you wanted to), and so on.

A good book to learn more about common structures you can find in OO
programs is "Design Patterns".

>>The Python community's reputation is that it's friendlier than the Perl
>>community, the flame war about variable initialization in the do..until
>>thread notwithstanding. :)

> I heard something about curley braces as well.  No {} for blocks?  Thats
> going to take some getting used to :)

It's easier to get used to than most people think. I was used to it
within a few days at most; I was definitely used to { and } before that.
Using an editor that supports Python's indentation helps -- I myself
am happy with Python mode for emacs, which you can find on the Python
website.

>>I've seen people beinn pleasantly surprised by the quality of answers
>> they've received in this newsgroup, so you may like it.

> I know I have been.  Nothing like a friendly newsgroup to convince me to
> switch -- at least take a break from perl for awhile to see how the other
> side lives.

Great! I'm probably repeating answers others have already given --
I saw the thread has grown. I'll go read it now myself.

Regards,

Martijn
-- 
History of the 20th Century: WW1, WW2, WW3?
No, WWW -- Could we be going in the right direction?


From andreas at andreas-jung.com  Sat Jan 27 12:28:02 2001
From: andreas at andreas-jung.com (Andreas Jung)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 18:28:02 +0100
Subject: Python 2.1 slower than 2.0
Message-ID: <20010127182802.A21904@yetix.sz-sb.de>

pystone.py with Python 2.0: ~3600 Pystones/sec
                Python 2.1: ~3000 Pystones/sec

Env. Linux i386, AMD-K2 300 MHz

Is there a reason why 2.1 runs significantly slower ?
Both Python versions were compiled with -g -O2 only.

Andreas




From andreas at andreas-jung.com  Wed Jan 17 13:36:31 2001
From: andreas at andreas-jung.com (Andreas Jung)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 19:36:31 +0100
Subject: help with code for combinations/permutations
In-Reply-To: <3A65D89D.E8366B3D@san.rr.com>; from dnew@san.rr.com on Wed, Jan 17, 2001 at 05:38:37PM +0000
References: <944adl$2bf@dispatch.concentric.net> <3A65D89D.E8366B3D@san.rr.com>
Message-ID: <20010117193631.A32265@yetix.sz-sb.de>

On Wed, Jan 17, 2001 at 05:38:37PM +0000, Darren New wrote:
> Oh, and it's a 1-liner in APL. ;-)

I am sure it will also fit with some lambda magic into one line of Python :)
Andreas 



From bxt at nospam.nospam  Tue Jan  9 11:02:23 2001
From: bxt at nospam.nospam (BxT)
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 17:02:23 +0100
Subject: string escaping problems with MySQLdb
References: <93f2cr$ofq$1@news2.dtag.de> <7ZF66.128944$15.27235477@news1.rdc1.az.home.com>
Message-ID: <93fbsp$8d$1@news2.dtag.de>

Ok, this seems to solve my problem.
Note that i was not clear before: when i said that i was getting \\337 is
because the string i was getting from the database was of the kind
myString="blah\337" and i used print `myString` so i "discovered" the double
backslash.
I will dive more deeply in the manuals, but for now, thanks!
BxT

"Tim Hochberg" <tim.hochberg at ieee.org> ha scritto nel messaggio
news:7ZF66.128944$15.27235477 at news1.rdc1.az.home.com...
>
> The mysterious BxT spake thusly:
>
> > Hi, i know this is a new-bie question,
> > i'm using MySQLdb and, as i'm extracting records, i get string escaped
as
> > follows:
> > for example, instead of ? i'm getting \\337 (yes, with doppel \). When
i'm
> > printing the string i'm getting blah\337 (internally is blah\\337).
>
> The string you are getting only has a single '\', it is displayed with two
> because a "\337" is the escape code for the beta symbol. Hmmm, that's not
> very clear, I suggest you peruse the manual and or play around till this
> becomes clear. However, the difference you are seeing the string displayed
> in the interpreter and the string printed is that printing formats stuff
> using the str function, while in the interpreter repr is used.
>
> >I tried
> > to use string.replace but it's giving me the same string. Is there a way
> to
> > print blah??
>
> I'm sure there's a better way, but:
>
> import re
> print re.sub(r"\\(\d\d\d)", lambda x : chr(int(x.group(1),8)), myString)
>
> or more clearly:
>
> escapedOctal = re.compile(r"\\(\d\d\d)")
> def matchToChr(match):
>     n = int(match.group(1), 8)
>     return chr(n)
>
> print re.sub(escapedOctal, matchToChr, myString)
>
>
> I'll let you figure out how that actually works....
>
> -tim
>
>
>
>




From dsh8290 at rit.edu  Thu Jan 11 20:05:05 2001
From: dsh8290 at rit.edu (D-Man)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 20:05:05 -0500
Subject: Python Design Patterns (was Re: Should I learn Python or Java?)
In-Reply-To: <3A5DF377.791E3DE0@comm.mot.com>; from stepheb@comm.mot.com on Thu, Jan 11, 2001 at 11:55:04AM -0600
References: <HEO56.5504$y9.2881293@typhoon.we.rr.com> <978840685.459818@emperor.labs.agilent.com> <3A5DF377.791E3DE0@comm.mot.com>
Message-ID: <20010111200505.D20125@dman.rh.rit.edu>

On Thu, Jan 11, 2001 at 11:55:04AM -0600, Stephen Boulet wrote:
| Brian Zhou wrote:
[snip]
| 
| Can anyone recommend some literature about design patterns that would be
| helpful to someone learning to program python?
| 

There's always the Gang of Four book "Design Patterns".  For the
examples they use mostly C++ with some Smalltalk.  Some things would
be implemented quite different in python (such as Singleton) due to
python's nice dynamic nature.

I'm interested to know if there is any literature re Python specific
design patterns (or the Pythonic way of implementing the Gang of
Four's patterns).

-D




From m.wilson at bibliocraft.com  Thu Jan 25 18:22:42 2001
From: m.wilson at bibliocraft.com (Mark Wilson)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 23:22:42 -0000
Subject: removing duplicates from .csv files
Message-ID: <016001c08725$de361580$2a824ac3@mwdell1>

Rob Andrews:
>I have been given several comma-delimited (.csv) files,
> each containing as many as several thousand lines of
>entries.  Among the tasks I've been charged with is to
>remove duplicate entries. The files each contain fields for
>Contact Name, Company Name, Phone Number, and Address,
>among other fields, which vary from file to file.
[ ... ]
>Has anyone already worked out a good approach?

Can't say that we've "worked out" something, but I do have
experience de-duping a similar kind of data set.

Maybe this seems like overkill, but I'd suggest stuffing all
your data into a database (one with an interface to Python
of course - eg MySQL) and then use database queries to
locate records with duplicate entries. One benefit of this
approach is that you can use "Like" (with wildcards) to
locate a series of records. This will allow you to identify
that "Mr X. Y. Smokealot" is the same guy as "Xavier
smokealot" (using a select where name like
"%x%smokealot%" ). MySQL also supports regular expressions
in its where statements, which may be useful.

Obviously, you'll need to write code to scan through what's
there (eg get the list of all names), abstract it a bit
(get just surname and initial ) generate suitable
queries therefrom, and examine the results ( eg check that
X. Y. Smokealot works at the same place as Xavier
smokealot ). Given the nature of the inconsistencies you're
likely to find in a data set prepared by a human being, you
could spend a long time writing such code to catch all
possibilities, so I'd also suggest that a framework in which
you can perform manual searches, and edit records (including
copy/paste of text) is going to be essential to get the data
perfect.

Its pretty easy to get MySql up and running, and hooked into
Python, and getting your data into MySQL is trivial (OK your
files contain different fields, but you could account for
that using Python to import data, or use Excel to create a
set of csv files with common fields and import directly into
the database). You could then spend time writing Python code
to focus on the more esoteric de-duping issues, rather than
re-inventing functionality that is already present in a
database engine. Some of the UI bits that come with MySQL
could be handy too for those final tweaks.

Others may have other ideas, but I hope that helps.

Mark






















From kno at jtan.com  Sat Jan 13 17:44:38 2001
From: kno at jtan.com (Matt Dunford)
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 22:44:38 GMT
Subject: A small suggestion for Python
References: <3A5F27F7.30268D9A@erols.com>
Message-ID: <G74HuE.AGn.0.sinope@news.jtan.com>

"Edward C. Jones" <edcjones at erols.com> writes:

>I have been programming in Python for several years. I still
>occasionally make mistakes with functions (such as sort) that
>return only "None". I suggest that functions like sort should
>return either "Nothing" or nothing. "Nothing" would be exactly
>like "None" except it can't be assigned. Whether "Nothing" or
>nothing is used, the statement "x= y.sort()" would raise a
>run-time Exception.

>Thanks,
>Ed Jones


I'm not too fond of this idea.  If you misuse a method, whose fault is
it?  Python's or your own?  I think we should keep sort the way it is.

Although, I wouldn't mind having a builtin method that returns a sorted
array.  Then we could do something like this:

dict = { 'this' : 1, 'that' : 2 }
for key in dict.keys().sort():
	print key


--


From weiming at cnri.reston.va.us  Sat Jan 20 20:54:36 2001
From: weiming at cnri.reston.va.us (Weiming He)
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 20:54:36 -0500
Subject: Help for DCOracle examples
References: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0101201422310.13495-100000@fep132.fep.ru>
Message-ID: <3A6A415B.D83D6173@cnri.reston.va.us>

Oleg:

I am so pleased that you give me examples regarding DCOracle.
But I might missed something here. Look at my two sessions:
1.
    >>> import Buffer, oci_, sys
    >>> dbc=Connect("weiming/weiming")
    >>> c=dbc.cursor()
    Traceback (innermost last):
      File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
    AttributeError: 'Connection' object has no attribute 'cursor'
    >>> c=dbc.Cursor()
    Traceback (innermost last):
      File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
    AttributeError: 'Connection' object has no attribute 'Cursor'

    It complained AttributeError, regarding 'Connection' object has no attribute
'Cursor'

2.
    >>> import Buffer, oci_, sys
    >>> dbc=Connect("weiming/weiming")
    >>> c=oci_.newCursor(dbc)
    >>> c.execute("select * from emp")
    Traceback (innermost last):
      File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
    AttributeError: execute

  It complained AttributeError too.

I saw your examples are prefect, but I am wondering why I have these AttributeError
above.
May I missed something? On your examples,  you have 'from DCOracle import Connect',
where is DCOracle? I only have oci_.so, Buffer.so, does them generate DCOracle? From
README.txt in release didn't say that.

I am sorry for having so many questions to ask you. But I am really appreciate you
would like
to give me some your good idea and advises. Thank you very much.

Weiming He

Oleg Broytmann wrote:

> On Fri, 19 Jan 2001, Weiming He wrote:
> > Thank you for your response. I got compile and link to Buffer.so and oci_.so.
> > Since it only has
> > one connection test python program with the release, can you point me where can
> > I find examples including
> > query, insert, update and etc. Or if you have some, would you please show me
> > one or two.
> > Thank you very much.
>
>    (JWT = jwt.com = J. Walter Thompson; once I wrote a site for their
> Russian branch jwt.ru; the site was not deployed)
>
> ----- file jwt_connecnt.py -----
> jwt = None
>
> import os
> os.environ["ORACLE_HOME"] = "/usr/local/oracle/app/oracle/product/8.0.5"
> os.environ["NLS_LANG"] = "AMERICAN_AMERICA.CL8KOI8R"
>
> def jwt_connect(login="xxx", password="yyy", SID="jwt_cm"):
>    global jwt
>    from DCOracle import Connect
>    jwt = Connect("%s/%s@%s" % (login, password, SID))
> ----- /file jwt_connecnt.py -----
>
> ----- file test1.py -----
> #! /usr/local/bin/python -O
> "Simple test"
>
> from jwt_connect import jwt_connect
> jwt_connect()
> from jwt_connect import jwt
>
> cursor = jwt.cursor()
> format = "%s | "*13 + "%s\n"
>
> cursor.execute("SELECT * FROM sides_view")
> while 1:
>    olist = cursor.fetchmany(10)
>    if not olist: break
>    for row in olist:
>       sys.stdout.write(format % row)
>
> cursor.close()
> jwt.close()
> ----- /file test1.py -----
>
> ----- file test2.py -----
> #! /usr/local/bin/python -O
> "LOB (large objects) and procedures example"
>
> from jwt_connect import jwt_connect
> jwt_connect()
> from jwt_connect import jwt
>
> #infile = open("xxx", 'r')
> #data = infile.read()
> #infile.close()
>
> print "Creating..."
> id = jwt.procedures.add_side_image(1028, 1423)
> print "New id =", id
>
> print "Loading image..."
> try:
>    jwt.execute("""SELECT the_image FROM images
>      WHERE id_image = %d
>        FOR UPDATE OF the_image""" % id)
>
>    lob = jwt.fetchone()[0]
>    lob.write("xyzzy")
>
> finally:
>    jwt.close()
> ----- /file test2.py -----
>
> Oleg.
> ----
>      Oleg Broytmann            http://phd.pp.ru/            phd at phd.pp.ru
>            Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN.



From tim.one at home.com  Mon Jan 29 05:36:11 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 05:36:11 -0500
Subject: invalid-token syntax hook (was Re: Hack request: rational numbers)
In-Reply-To: <950vg1026tu@news2.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCMEPBILAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Tim]
> That said, I believe your only hope of getting new literal syntax is to
> embed it in a general proposal. ...

[Alex Martelli]
> What I was thinking, too.  So what about the "invalid-token syntax
> error hook" idea -- whenever the compiler is about to raise a
> SyntaxError because of an invalid token ('3r','@@x',etc), if
> sys.invalidTokenHook (or something of that ilk) is set to some
> callable, that callable is invoked, passed the invalid-token string,
> and given a chance to either return None (confirming that, yes, it
> IS a syntax error) or a tuple (possibly empty or singleton) of tokens
> to be used instead.

I think there are technical and philosophical reasons that won't fly.
Primarily, Guido would be appalled by any scheme that can take an arbitrary
sequence of characters and let people call that "Python".  Technically,
schemes that rely on compiler internals probably can't be extended to all
the tools I mentioned before (e.g., *lots* of tools "parse" Python via
half-assed regexp tricks now, but with the right half of the ass needed to
get the pieces they're looking for).

The compiler internals are dicey too.  For example, look closely at "3r".
That's not an invalid token today, it's a sequence of two valid tokens.
Python doesn't complain about 3r at the lexer level, it complains after
failing to find any  *grammar* production matching the "3" "r" token
sequence.  Note that

>>> 3or 2
3
>>>

is legit Python today (just making concrete that
    digit letter+
is not an error at the tokenization level).  Similarly, "@@x" is a sequence
of two illegal characters followed by a legit token.  If Python got hooked,
it would complain about the first "@" and that's that -- it would not have
even gotten around to reading the following "@x" by then.

> Not sure how (if?) a module specifies what hook it wants to
> be set during its own compilation -- perhaps it can't, in which
> case a module whose source contains syntactically invalid
> tokens can only be compiled after 'something else' has set
> the (global?) hook 'appropriately'.
>
> No, doesn't look like a necessarily great idea to me, either.

I expect that while the technical problems would prove solvable given
extraordinary effort (i.e., fat chance <wink>), the philosophical objections
would be fatal anyway.

> It allows a very modest amount of syntax extension (token
> level only -- really nothing more than the sugariest kind)
> and modules using it become not-understandable unless
> what hook they use is known/documented.  At least it does
> not allow _altering_ syntax in general (as only currently
> invalid tokens would ever been passed to the hook), but,
> it _would_ make it harder or impossibly to extent this
> level of syntax in the future (a currently-invalid token could
> not become valid in the future without risking a breakage
> to some existing hook).
>
> Consider it a strawman just to try and fathom if there IS
> some halfway-good general idea for extensibility...

We *might* get somewhere being even less ambitious.  Perhaps by extending
Python's grammar in a *fixed* way, so that every tool can learn to deal with
it via "cheap tricks", and no compile-time hooks are needed to decide
whether a piece of text *is* Python code.  The simplest thing I can think of
would be to allow any letter as a prefix to a string (instead of just the
[uUrR] allowed today), and ditto for a suffix on "a number" (instead of just
[lL] today).

But screw strings, since everyone who ever brings this up complains they
hate typing strings anyway (e.g., Fixed("3.45") and Rational("3/4") are
always rejected by people who want fixed-point decimal and rational types).
That leaves numbers, and

   rat = 3/4r

to divide int 3 by Rational 4, or

   my_base10_float = 3.45d

wouldn't cause much trouble at compile-time.  Presumably the earlier

>>> 3or 2

would become illegal (since it's now two adjacent numeric tokens), but I
don't think Guido would mind that (e.g., IDLE doesn't colorize it correctly
today, and I believe that's intentional).

The compiler could simply generate code to call a new function, say,

sys.user_literal(basestring, tags)

so that

    rat = 3/4r

would compile "as if"

    rat = 3 / sys.user_literal("4", "r")

had been written, and

    my_base10_float = 3.45d

as if

    my_base10_float = sys.user_literal("3.45", "d")

Then the user would be responsible for plugging in a suitable user_literal
function at runtime, before any module using the feature got imported.

Damned cute:  If I decorated all my floating-point literals with a "d"
suffix, then I could run an algorithm once with a hook that converted the
literals to builtin floats, and then change the hook to convert to an
emulation of floats with twice the precision and run it again.  That's a
wonderful way to get a quick feel for whether native float precision is
suffering catastrophic numeric errors.  Or run it again changing the hook to
convert them to rationals, and get an exact result (if the operations were
just simple arithmetic).  Heck, the body of a function could dynamically set
the hook based on the type of an argument, giving the effect of truly
polymorphic literals.  Could be very useful, to an ever decreasing audience
<0.5 wink>.

That's the best I can do in 15 minutes, but afraid that's all the time I've
got now ...

do-the-simplest-thing-that-could-possibly-get-rejected<wink>-ly y'rs  - tim




From scarblac at pino.selwerd.nl  Fri Jan 12 02:30:45 2001
From: scarblac at pino.selwerd.nl (Remco Gerlich)
Date: 12 Jan 2001 07:30:45 GMT
Subject: isnumeric (mhlib.py)
References: <3A548B2A.B45DC580@cs.utwente.nl>
Message-ID: <slrn95tcda.9ng.scarblac@pino.selwerd.nl>

Richard van de Stadt <stadt at cs.utwente.nl> wrote in comp.lang.python:
> I needed a function to check if a string is a number.

If you are using Python 1.6 or 2.0, strings have the isdigit() method:

>>> x = "0"
>>> x.isdigit()
1
>>> x = "1234"
>>> x.isdigit()
1
>>> x = "1234a"
>>> x.isdigit()
0

-- 
Remco Gerlich


From wlsonna at attglobal.net  Fri Jan  5 21:33:00 2001
From: wlsonna at attglobal.net (William Sonna)
Date: 6 Jan 2001 02:33:00 GMT
Subject: A single, general looping construct? (was: why no "do : until"?)
References: <92jj3j$ff7$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <92m9pm$d19$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <B3z36.122$9s1.18804@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com> <3A4EC5B1.8912E571@engcorp.com> <x8G36.156$9s1.31209@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com> <92qc21$538$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <0O7zTzsxerl5-pn2-SISYKtwXTOmR@bill> <931lji02ik1@news2.newsguy.com> <0O7zTzsxerl5-pn2-DVVVoFhFP1jH@bill> <934sg602sfh@news2.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <0O7zTzsxerl5-pn2-d47FDdZYq25y@bill>

On Fri, 5 Jan 2001 16:23:46, "Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com> 
wrote:

[snip]

> > So what's the deal with Python?
> 
> It's a general-purpose programming language, with no need for
> any special compatibility with existing ones. 

I was going to drop this, Alex, but I simply CAN'T let a statement 
like that go by unchallenged, so (with apologies).........

.......Since you haven't backed this seemingly sweeping statement up 
with any examples,  would you mind explaining what you mean by 
"special" compatibility?

> Having a general
> construct, introducing equivalent ones for several special
> cases would be unPythonic.  (You'll hear no Pythonista claim
> the re sublanguage is highly Pythonic, I'm sure -- particularly
> since it's basically identical to the Perl sublanguage that
> serves the same purpose:-).
> 
> 

1.  Wasn't the adoption Perl-style regex's essentially a tip of the 
hat to a widely used, widely understood (and refreshingly un-lippy) 
syntax?

2.  If convenience at the expense of redundancy trully has no place in
Python,  how do explain the likes of map, reduce and list 
comprehensions?  Are THEY not "special" instances of "while" with 
abbreviated syntax?

I submit that the ONLY practical purpose 1) or 2) serve is to produce 
cleaner (ie, less wordy) code.

They ARE, therefore, Miesian (Mies Van Der Rohe), or  minimalist, or 
Pythonic, if you prefer; DESPITE being redundant.


From trentm at ActiveState.com  Tue Jan 16 14:41:39 2001
From: trentm at ActiveState.com (Trent Mick)
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 11:41:39 -0800
Subject: help finding python20_d.lib for download?
In-Reply-To: <3A649853.5CFBC157@psl.nmsu.edu>; from ccosse@psl.nmsu.edu on Tue, Jan 16, 2001 at 11:52:03AM -0700
References: <3A649853.5CFBC157@psl.nmsu.edu>
Message-ID: <20010116114139.J30209@ActiveState.com>

On Tue, Jan 16, 2001 at 11:52:03AM -0700, charles cosse wrote:
> Hi, i have to use python in windows for 1 small task and
> can't  link my C module because i need python20_d.lib.
> Can anyone help me find the downloadable archive which
> contains it? Thanks a lot!
> Charles

http://www.activestate.com/Products/ActivePython/Download.html

look for the "ActivePython-2.0.0.202.debug.tar.gz" link under the "Debug
libraries" section.

Cheers,
Trent

-- 
Trent Mick
TrentM at ActiveState.com



From chris at 2s2iNO_SPAM.com  Sun Jan 28 01:09:59 2001
From: chris at 2s2iNO_SPAM.com (Chris)
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 01:09:59 -0500
Subject: "print" strange with Sybase module
References: <3A70163A.10D995@schlund.de> <94q0f6$lu5$1@news.cybercity.dk>
Message-ID: <vHOc6.27482$DB1.273597@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com>

I've been experiencing this unflushed buffer issue as well when running some
Python programs in the background and redirecting their output to log files.
Is there any way that I could force the buffers to flush somehow?  I am
being plagued by incomplete log files!  Or perhaps there is a better
approach?

Thank you!

Erwin S. Andreasen <erwin at andreasen.com> wrote in message
news:94q0f6$lu5$1 at news.cybercity.dk...
> On Thu, 25 Jan 2001 13:04:10 +0100, Carsten Gaebler wrote:
>
> >The following simple program (sqltest.py) returns about 20 lines of
> >Sybase output when run as "./sqltest.py". But if I say
> >
> >./sqltest.py | tee /tmp/test.txt
> >
> >there is no output and test.txt is empty. What's going wrong? It's
> >Sybase module 0.10 with Python 2.0.
>
> Does your Python interpreter exit before the very end with some fatal
error?
> (do echo $? after you run the script without piping it to see the exit
error
> code, is it 0?).
>
> You see, standard output which "print" prints to is line-buffered when
> connected to a terminal (i.e. the buffer is flushed after each line). When
it
> is run through a pipe, it is block buffered (i.e. the buffer is flushed
after
> 4096 bytes of output has been gathered).
>
> If the program exits unexpectedly (sys.exit(1) or an exception is OK, but
> os._exit(1) or a fatal signal isn't) these buffers will not be flushed.
>
> I can't see a reason to why it would exit that way quietly, but unflushed
> buffers are the first thing that comes to mind when seeing those symptoms.
>
>
> PS: Any Python-users attending Linux Expo in Paris?
>
> --
> =======================================================================
> <erwin at andreasen.com>           Herlev, Denmark       Software Designer
> <URL:http://www.andreasen.org/>       <*>         LASAT^WEicon Networks
> =======================================================================
>




From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Sat Jan 27 19:36:53 2001
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 00:36:53 +0000
Subject: . Python 2.1 function attributes
References: <$5A+ZwAGjtc6EwE0@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
 <mailman.980636553.17809.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <0S4MTKAlm2c6EwWL@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>

In article <mailman.980636553.17809.python-list at python.org>, Tim Peters
<tim.one at home.com> writes
...
Wow these are 'must have' features. I must start growing fingernails at
once.
>> seems to me that having multiple ways of doing return is a bad idea
>
>You might like this new 2.1 feature better then, best illustrated by
>example:
>
>>>> def f(\d+)(i):
>...     return int(\1) + 1
>...
>>>> f12(6)
>18
>>>> f0(3)
>3
>>>> f666(42)
>708
>>>>
>
>That is, "the name" of a function can be a regular expression now, and
>anything that "looks like" a call is matched against all regexp func defs.
>\1, \2 etc can  be used in the body of the function to return substrings of
>the matched function name, just as for any other use of regexps in Python.
>
>Of course there is a full set of disambiguating rules, based on the notion
>of "most specific match".  For example,
>
>def f.*(i):
>    return i
>
>also matches names like f12 and f666, but the set of strings matching f.* is
>a strict superset of those matching f(\d+), so the latter is more specific.
>By the same rule,
>
>def f666(i):
>    pass
>
>is a more specific match than f(\d+), so f666 is unambiguous.
>
>The primary reason for adding this was all the complaints about not being
>able to reliably obtain the name of a function within its own body.  Now
>it's available via \0.
>
>>>> def anyfuncatall():
>...     print \0
>...
>anyfuncatall
>>>>
>
>or, via the new attribute notation,
>
>>>> anyfuncatall.\0
>'anyfuncatall'
>>>>
>
>Combining this with the new return spelling is very powerful:
>
>>>> x1 = 10
>>>> x2 = 20
>>>> x3 = 30
>>>> def f(\d)() >> eval("x" + \1):
>...     pass
>...
>>>> f2()
>20
>>>>
>
>can't-wait-to-see-who-supports-this-one<wink>-ly y'rs  - tim
>
>

-- 
Robin Becker


From torkil at fast.no  Mon Jan  8 09:13:49 2001
From: torkil at fast.no (Torkil Grindstein)
Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2001 15:13:49 +0100
Subject: How to set up an XML-RPC server (newbie)
References: <3A59B00B.4CB407D3@fast.no>
	 <h$hZIgAp5bW6Ew2C@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <3A59C319.E878838C@fast.no> <4YwvRIAvqcW6Ewnk@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3A59CB1D.9AC912F@fast.no>

Robin Becker wrote:
> Is it possible you aren't running python with the script? 

Yes!!!
Thanks a lot, now I have something to work with!
(Still surprised about the error messages, though...:)
-- 
Torkil Grindstein                 Mail:  Torkil.Grindstein at fast.no
System Architect                  Web:   http://www.fast.no
Fast Search & Transfer ASA        Phone: +47 21 60 11 90
Gr?nnegata 80, Pb 571             Fax:   +47 77 69 66 89
NO-9261 Troms?, NORWAY            Mob:   +47 98 06 61 38

Try FAST Search: http://www.alltheweb.com


From delza at antarcti.ca  Thu Jan 25 11:35:23 2001
From: delza at antarcti.ca (Dethe Elza)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 16:35:23 GMT
Subject: what GUI, please advise
References: <3A6F18F2.536F27FE@crepido.com>, <3A6F0B27.A88D11C9@crepido.com> <756399CF731B46D9.57530C0D0C9C2171.472E737DF76189F7@lp.airnews.net> <mailman.980360668.7701.python-list@python.org> <%aHb6.34$4vh.3735820@news.randori.com>
Message-ID: <fBYb6.1732$_8.19419@news1.rdc1.bc.home.com>

Do you have pointers to the "upcoming XML resources format?"  Is this the
wxPWyitdhoonws resource
format, or something more general.  Any documentation?

I'm very interested in cross-platform XML for building GUIs.

--Dethe

"Robin Dunn" <robin at alldunn.com> wrote in message
news:%aHb6.34$4vh.3735820 at news.randori.com...

"Moshe Zadka" <moshez at zadka.site.co.il> wrote in message
news:mailman.980360668.7701.python-list at python.org...
>
> Check out wxPython and Tkinter. I think Boa-Constructor is a gui
> builder for wxWindows,

For a few bucks there's also wxDesigner, which is real solid and can
generate code for Python, C++, <cough>Perl</cough> as well as the upcoming
XML resource format

> but you might have more trouble building
> it on exotic platforms.

This is getting better than it used to be before switching to distutils.

--
Robin Dunn
Software Craftsman
robin at AllDunn.com       Java give you jitters?
http://wxPython.org      Relax with wxPython!






From donn at u.washington.edu  Fri Jan 12 13:07:58 2001
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: 12 Jan 2001 18:07:58 GMT
Subject: How robust is Python ?
References: <9358nn$3c5$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, <9354f9$vbi$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, <LOBBJMHOIFOLFIPFANHJAEJFCHAA.zope@TheWebsons.com> <mailman.978716227.31692.python-list@python.org> <mailman.978721929.3640.python-list@python.org> <20010106103938.8FCAFA84F@darjeeling.zadka.site.co.il> <mailman.979313781.1111.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <93nh5u$9nk$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>

Quoth "Sandipan Gangopadhyay" <sandipan at vsnl.com>:
[ ... re top level exception handlers ... ]

| I want this in my code, but came across a problem -
|
| while binAliveMarker:
|   if binIWannaStartAgain:
|     time.sleep(1)
|     continue
|   work code ...
|
| If I try a catch-all except, continue hits except on the outer level rather
| than while. Probably the reason that it results in syntax error.
|
| while binAliveMarker:
|   try:
|     if binWannaStartAgainLater:
|       time.sleep(1)
|       continue
|     work code ...
|   except:
|     pass
|
| Any suggestions to make it work with continue (or an alternative) ? Apart
| from removing continue completely by making the work code inside an else ?

Why apart from that?

I guess we've already covered the "try: continue" issue:  "try: continue"
just isn't supported (though the more useful "try: ... except: continue"
does work.)  Readable flow control inside a loop is very doable.  It's
hard for me to see that try: continue would really improve on that -
on the contrary, continue is liable to detract from readability if it's
used in conjunction with too many other flow control options.  I think
"goto" would be fun, too, but I can see why in some ways we're better
off without it.

But back to the subject, I would be interested in more concrete
examples of what exceptions we're liable to catch in a case like that.
I have used top level handlers, but only as basically an alternative to
the traceback, not to resume execution.  I think the initial proposal
was to execute the program again from scratch after it exits, and it's
pretty obvious what that's about.  But after catching some random
exception at the top of the program, I would be concerned that the
program might be in a compromised state and not really fit to go back
to work.  And would that really catch the kind of lossage that could
break a correctly written Python program, or do those things usually
break the interpreter directly?

	Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu


From root at rainerdeyke.com  Sat Jan 27 18:09:43 2001
From: root at rainerdeyke.com (Rainer Deyke)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 23:09:43 GMT
Subject: . Python 2.1 function attributes
References: <mailman.980575232.12720.python-list@python.org> <Pine.GSO.4.21.0101270135190.7677-100000@y.glue.umd.edu> <C9Cc6.123108$ge4.43303339@news2.rdc2.tx.home.com> <Pine.GSO.4.21.0101271156550.3501-100000@y.glue.umd.edu>
Message-ID: <XyIc6.123875$ge4.44092725@news2.rdc2.tx.home.com>

"Roy Katz" <katz at Glue.umd.edu> wrote in message
news:Pine.GSO.4.21.0101271156550.3501-100000 at y.glue.umd.edu...
> On Sat, 27 Jan 2001, Rainer Deyke wrote:
>
> > Syntax sugar for singletons could chop another line from the class-based
> > idiom:
> >
> >
> > singleton g:
> >   attr = 0
> >   def __call__(): pass
>
>
> I thought of that, so I wrote the other post (about an Entity type).
> I noticed that your __call__() doesn't pass self.  Was this intentional,
> given that  you specified a singleton?

No, I just forgot to put 'self' in the argument list.


--
Rainer Deyke (root at rainerdeyke.com)
Shareware computer games           -           http://rainerdeyke.com
"In ihren Reihen zu stehen heisst unter Feinden zu kaempfen" - Abigor




From kkoller at newfocus.com  Thu Jan 25 15:21:52 2001
From: kkoller at newfocus.com (Ken Koller)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 12:21:52 -0800
Subject: Crash using Python 2.0 Extension
References: <3A707199.FBDF1A81@newfocus.com> <B%_b6.9200$Qb7.1324792@newsb.telia.net>
Message-ID: <3A708AE0.D6B27233@newfocus.com>

Thanks, I knew I was missing something. And I was looking at some of the
source, it's just that it was pretty late and I was burned out. I should have
caught that though.

Fredrik Lundh wrote:

> Ken Koller wrote:
> > I originally wrote the routine below to return Py_None, but the
> > interpretter would crash after calling the routine several times (maybe
> > 100-200) in a row.
>
> you mean like
>
>     static PyObject * pt_pSetModule(PyObject * self, PyObject * args)
>     {
>         return Py_None;
>     }
>
> this doesn't work -- Python expects your function to own a
> reference to the object you'll returning, and will decrement
> the reference counter once it's done with the return value.
> When the return value reaches zero, the None object is
> removed, and anything can happen.
>
> (in a stock interpreter, there already are 100-200 references
> to None when your program starts running. sys.getrefcount(None)
> will give you the exact number for your setup).
>
> But if you look in the library sources (*always* do this when you
> cannot figure out how to use the C API), you'll notice that many
> functions/methods do return Py_None -- but they all do one very
> important thing before doing so:
>
>     Py_INCREF(Py_None); /* get another reference to None */
>     return Py_None; /* return an owned reference */
>
> for more info, see:
> http://www.python.org/doc/current/ext/refcounts.html
> (especially "ownership rules")
>
> Cheers /F
>
> <!-- (the eff-bot guide to) the standard python library:
> http://www.pythonware.com/people/fredrik/librarybook.htm
> -->



From flognat at flognat.myip.org  Thu Jan 18 09:50:40 2001
From: flognat at flognat.myip.org (Andrew Markebo)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 14:50:40 GMT
Subject: Curses module for Python 2.0 for Windows NT
References: <mailman.979719258.23519.python-list@python.org> <m33dehvsho.fsf@master.athome>
Message-ID: <m3vgrcvrr3.fsf@master.athome>

Drats, nope pdcurses didn't seem to have enough functionality to fit
into the curses module, either the cygwin way, or go doing a pdcurses
module for python :-)

        /Andy


From sheila at thinkspot.net  Mon Jan 15 02:20:11 2001
From: sheila at thinkspot.net (Sheila King)
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 07:20:11 GMT
Subject: Help with Python install
References: <rkp46t8atkoabsmu7v159sm32c0mslp40p@4ax.com> <ro256tkkmuf2j6lq6279ofr871269j7fnj@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <u1956t89hvqr87e4kgta2qoaqeu7e894us@4ax.com>

On Mon, 15 Jan 2001 05:33:42 GMT, Sheila King <sheila at thinkspot.net> wrote in
comp.lang.python in article <ro256tkkmuf2j6lq6279ofr871269j7fnj at 4ax.com>:

:I've been given a clue from the Sysadmin:
:I've installed Python in the wrong directory. The mail program doesn't have
:permission to access my $HOME directory, and I've installed Python2.0 in a
:subdirectory of HOME. So, I need to uninstall it, and then reinstall it into a
:directory that the mail program has access to.

Well, I have this problem solved, at least. Python 2.0 is installed, and my
script is functioning. I did have to put the full path in the .qmail file, as
suggested by Emile van Sebille. That, plus installing it in a directory where
the permissions allowed the mail program to access it, solved the problem.



--
Sheila King
http://www.thinkspot.net/sheila/
http://www.k12groups.org/


From richard_d_papworth at my-deja.com  Thu Jan 11 10:17:43 2001
From: richard_d_papworth at my-deja.com (richard_d_papworth at my-deja.com)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 15:17:43 GMT
Subject: Ingres II and Python
Message-ID: <93kiqc$5k6$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

Does anyone have experience of accessing an Ingres II database using python ?
I haven't been able to find any references to ingres on the python site. Any
pointers in the right direction would be appreciated.

Richard


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From scarblac at pino.selwerd.nl  Tue Jan 16 02:32:57 2001
From: scarblac at pino.selwerd.nl (Remco Gerlich)
Date: 16 Jan 2001 07:32:57 GMT
Subject: Problem with a tuple - newbie ignorance
References: <3A633531.9010303@yale.edu>
Message-ID: <slrn967tvs.fnm.scarblac@pino.selwerd.nl>

Steven Citron-Pousty <steven.citron-pousty at yale.edu> wrote in comp.lang.python:
> Greetings all:
> So I am writing this program to parse text files. I am using a tuple to 
> store the field names and values (i.e. [['id =', 't =', 
> ...]['','',...]]. The program reads through all the files in the 
> directory. For each file it writes all the all the matches in teh 
> appropriate field.  I am having several problems, but the biggest right 
> now is:
> When the program goes to parse the next file it doesn't clear out the 
> contents from the last file. Here is how I thought it should work...
> <Header stuff>
> ifields = [[fields names list][list of just '','','']
> <FOR loop with all the file names from the directory>
> open file
> results = ifields
> <fill the results tuple>
> <print the results tuple>
> <go back to the top of the loop>
> 
> For some reason I thought that each time results gets sets to ifields it 
> should reset the contents of results. I have tried all sorts of other 
> workarounds, such as using "del results" just before I go back and 
> repeat the loop.
> What am I missing here?

These are not tuples, but lists. (you can't change tuples).

When you do 'results = ifields', both variables refer to the same list.

So when you add elements to results, ifields is also changed, since it is
the same list.

Similar to:
>>> a = [1]
>>> b = a
>>> b.append(2)
>>> a
[1, 2]

What you need is a *copy* of the original list. So do
results = ifields[:]
instead.

Also, if you have a structure
[[name1, name2, name3, name4], [value, value, value, value]],
that just screams for a dictionary
{ name1: value, name2: value, name3: value, name4: value }

-- 
Remco Gerlich


From stadt at cs.utwente.nl  Thu Jan  4 09:39:38 2001
From: stadt at cs.utwente.nl (Richard van de Stadt)
Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 15:39:38 +0100
Subject: isnumeric (mhlib.py)
Message-ID: <3A548B2A.B45DC580@cs.utwente.nl>

Hi,

I needed a function to check if a string is a number.
mhlib contains a function called isnumeric(), so I
used that one. This is how it determines if a string
is a number:

numericprog = re.compile('^[1-9][0-9]*$')
def isnumeric(str):
    return numericprog.match(str) is not None

However, this way, '0' is not regarded as a number.
Is that what isnumeric is supposed to do?

I don't know what the meaning of isnumeric for mh is,
but why isn't numericprog simply like this:

numericprog = re.compile('^[0-9]*$')

Richard.


From mal at lemburg.com  Thu Jan 25 05:57:25 2001
From: mal at lemburg.com (M.-A. Lemburg)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 11:57:25 +0100
Subject: Help for DCOracle module on AIX UNIX
References: <mailman.979897912.12765.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3A700695.C8E35F32@lemburg.com>

Oleg Broytmann wrote:
> 
> Hello!
> 
> On Thu, 18 Jan 2001, Weiming He wrote:
> > Does anyone know how to compile and link DCOracle module on AIX UNIX?
> > Please pass me a hand, thanks in advance.
> 
>    In what way AIX is different from any other UNIX? I've compiled and used
> DCOracle on Linux...

... don't ask ;)

I have never used DCOracle, but one of my customers uses AIX and
getting things to compile on that machine isn't really straight
forward at all.

If DCOracle happens to use the Makefile.pre.in approach then here's
what to watch out for:

* copy the python.exp file generated during the compilation of
  the Python interpreter and the two scripts ld_so_aix and
  makexp_aix to each of the directories where Makefile.pre.in
  will be used to compile a C extension

* setup your PATH so that Makefile.pre.in finds the correct
  Python installation (the one you have taken the python.exp
  file from)

* Give it a go...

* If something fails, it will usually be the linker (dynamic
  or static).

-- 
Marc-Andre Lemburg
______________________________________________________________________
Company:                                        http://www.egenix.com/
Consulting:                                    http://www.lemburg.com/
Python Pages:                           http://www.lemburg.com/python/



From bobhicks at adelphia.net  Wed Jan 17 21:26:26 2001
From: bobhicks at adelphia.net (Robert L Hicks)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 02:26:26 GMT
Subject: Tkinter 3000 WCK, fifth preview (was Re: Line Benchmarks -
	Tkinter vs. wxPython)
References: <91uljk$12as$1@news2.ottawa.cyberus.ca> <wMF36.2800$Qb7.322181@newsb.telia.net> <%Y%56.4330$Qb7.610263@newsb.telia.net> <LFl96.7295$AH6.1111369@newsc.telia.net>
Message-ID: <B68BBE45.8CD6%bobhicks@adelphia.net>

Very nice...can't wait for the final product!

Bob

> From: "Fredrik Lundh" <fredrik at effbot.org>
> Organization: Telia Internet
> Newsgroups: comp.lang.python
> Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 18:39:39 GMT
> Subject: Tkinter 3000 WCK, fifth preview (was Re: Line Benchmarks - Tkinter
> vs. wxPython)
> 
> I wrote:
>> I wrote:
>>> As some of you know, I've been involved in a commercial UI library
>>> called uiToolkit (see www.pythonware.com for more info). Tkinter
>>> 3000 is a reimplementation of some uiToolkit concepts, on top of
>>> Tkinter (and/or Tk).
>>> 
>>> One such concept is something called the "Widget Construction
>>> Kit", which is a small interface that allows you to implement new
>>> Tkinter widgets in pure Python.
> 
> a new preview is now available from http://tkinter.effbot.org
> 
> send comments/questions to me or to the tkinter3000 mailing
> list (see the effbot.org site for more info).
> 
> Cheers /F
> 
> 



From christophertavares at earthlink.net  Wed Jan 17 22:35:58 2001
From: christophertavares at earthlink.net (Christopher Tavares)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 03:35:58 GMT
Subject: Any way to restrict execution with regard to execution time??
References: <944n1v$8t6$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <ywt96.1117$Tw1.82697@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>

<rturpin at my-deja.com> wrote in message news:944n1v$8t6$1 at nnrp1.deja.com...
[... snip ...]
>
> So here's the problem, that seems intractable in Python.
> There are two pieces of code, C1 and C2. C1 wants to run
> C2, but does not trust it to consume only a reasonable
> amount of time (measured in any fashion). How can C1 run
> C2 guaranteeing that C2's execution is interrupted after
> some finite amount of time, if it hasn't finished by
> then? C2 is from an untrusted source, so the answer
> cannot be phrased in terms of how C2 is written. I'd be
> much obliged to anyone who can tell me how to do this!
>
> Russell

This is just an idea, but the Python debugging interface includes hooks for
trace functions. These get called every function or every line. That'd let
you get in there and do all sorts of stuff.

It'd probably kill your performance, though.

-Chris





From djc at object-craft.com.au  Thu Jan 25 17:45:21 2001
From: djc at object-craft.com.au (Dave Cole)
Date: 26 Jan 2001 09:45:21 +1100
Subject: removing duplicates from .csv files
References: <94ptre$uf0$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <m34rynntdq.fsf@vole.object-craft.com.au>

>>>>> "mspiggie" == mspiggie  <mspiggie at my-deja.com> writes:

mspiggie> I have been given several comma-delimited (.csv) files, each
mspiggie> containing as many as several thousand lines of entries.
mspiggie> Among the tasks I've been charged with is to remove
mspiggie> duplicate entries.  The files each contain fields for
mspiggie> Contact Name, Company Name, Phone Number, and Address, among
mspiggie> other fields, which vary from file to file.

Although I can't offer much help on the data processing part, you
might want to use my fast CSV parser module.  It understands MS style
CSV in which quoted fields can span multiple lines.  It runs just a
teeny bit slower than string.split()

        http://www.object-craft.com.au/projects/csv/

- Dave

-- 
http://www.object-craft.com.au


From cerutti at together.net  Fri Jan 26 15:51:13 2001
From: cerutti at together.net (Neil Cerutti)
Date: 26 Jan 2001 20:51:13 GMT
Subject: Tkinter vs wxPython: your opinions?
References: <3A6F899F.E164F628@home.com> <hvZb6.2156$_8.33280@news1.rdc1.bc.home.com> <slrn9710o1.73.cerutti@fiad06.norwich.edu> <3A3AF7F970D390FB.9516A3492818FA7E.F86BC486C21F50E6@lp.airnews.net> <slrn972vmq.77.cerutti@fiad06.norwich.edu> <uhf2mrves.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com>
Message-ID: <slrn973p79.7g.cerutti@fiad06.norwich.edu>

David Bolen posted:
>I guess the one place I do use them is for menu items, but
>really only when the item is created and the event attached to a
>callback method.

I guess we could use wxMenuItem objects instead of arbitrary(??)
ID numbers.

-- 
Neil Cerutti <cerutti at together.net>


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Wed Jan 17 06:27:23 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 12:27:23 +0100
Subject: SQL-Statement with Python
References: <3A62E224.7AEE805E@students.uni-linz.ac.at> <93ut4q031hd@news1.newsguy.com> <R2M86.5299$J76.42003@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com> <941jnd0634@news1.newsguy.com> <K4596.1054$DI.17324@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <943vlk02jai@news2.newsguy.com>

"Steve Holden" <sholden at holdenweb.com> wrote in message
news:K4596.1054$DI.17324 at e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com...
    [snip]
> > Anyway, if that bothers you too much you get to choose among a
> > zillion other ways to ask a recordset for its contents, e.g....:
> >
> > for row in recordset.GetString()[:-1].split('\r'):
> >     first, last = row.split('\t')
> >     print "%s, %s" % (last, first)
> >
> > Or, simpler and faster, one can show off one's command of 'advanced'
> > SQL:-), and get the *db engine* to do one's work:
> >
> > recordset, result = connection.Execute(
> >   "Select LastName//', '//FirstName From Employees Order By LastName")
> > print recordset.GetString().replace('\r','\n')
> >
> pretty good, though I would suggest "... Order By LastName, FirstName" for
a
> definitive ordering. Wow, I wish my SQL was that good :-) And in fact I'm
> one of those who tend to write SQL keywords in UPPER CASE because that's
> what I'm used to.

Upper-case keywords is indeed the prevalent style, as is splitting SQL
statements up into clauses, also for readability:

recordset, result = connection.Execute(
    "SELECT LastName//', '//FirstName"
    "  FROM Employees"
    "  ORDER BY LastName, FirstName"
)

I guess this IS best, given the complexity of certain SQL statements -- it
just doesn't come natural to me when plonking down some simple little
thingy.  My fault.  (Not sure what the 'wish my SQL was that good' quip is
meant for -- IS there some engine that doesnt do such simple things right?).


> > Explanation for _what_ 'it'?  I must be confused...
> >
> "It" being the row-major vs. column-major ordering. I had completely
> overlooked the fact that Microsoft tend to design their subsystems to play
> with *their* languages. Don't talk to me about world domination!

Well, I'm sure Fortran programmers using SQL via ADO (there must be
a BUNCH of those out there...) are also happy.  I'm not aware of other
languages oriented to column-major matrices, though I'll bet there are.

But that's not really the point here.  The VB/VBscript programmer
will have to code nested indexed loops anyway since the language
does not support equivalence between 2d arrays and arrays-of-arrays;
eg, see http://www.stardeveloper.com/asp_getrows_4.asp for a typical:

         ' Showing Each Row
         For i = 0 To UBound(ds, 2)
            Response.Write "<tr>" & vbcrlf
            ' Showing Each Column
            For j = 0 To UBound(ds, 1)
               Response.Write "<td>"
               Response.Write ds(j, i)
               Response.Write "</td>"
               Next
            Response.Write "</tr>" & vbcrlf
         Next

where ds is the object (a VB/VBscript array) that GetRows returns.

Python equivalent would be something like (warning -- untested!):

# showing each row
for i in range(len(ds[0])):
    Response.Write("<tr>\n")
    # showing each column
    for j in range(len(ds)):
        Response.Write("<td>%s</td>" % ds[j][i])
    Response.Write("</tr>\n")

not really any less convenient than the VBScript equivalent above,
it seems to me.  The (little) defect in both cases is having to
iterate by index when iterating on content directly would be more
convenient and simpler if it were feasible ('For Each' in VBScript,
plain Python for without the range(len(...)) rigmarole) -- it's
not, in VBScript because of the non-equivalence of 2D arrays to
arrays of arrays, in Python because of the column-major thingy.

Had GetRows returned an array of arrays, life would be simpler
in *both* scripting languages!  Oh well... all in all, it's not
really a major issue, just one more little design booboo (it
stands out more in Python because the language itself is so free
from such little errors & irregularities -- in VBScript, one
does not notice it because there are so many in the language
itself, that, "what's one more between friends"!-).


Another viable approach, if you feel so strongly about it, is (and
this will surprise nobody) to allow iteration the way GvR intended.

You can do it simply, by transposing the wrong-way-round matrix
once and for all, e.g:

def transpose(matrix2d):
    result = [[] for i in range(len(matrix2d[0]))]
    for row in maxtrix2d:
        for i in range(len(row)):
            result[i].append(row[i])
    return result

which seems simplest to me; this allows recoding the above
Python snippet as the marginally clearer/more convenient:

for row in transpose(ds):
    Response.Write("<tr>\n")
    for col in row:
        Response.Write("<td>%s</td>" % col)
    Response.Write("</tr>\n")

Since only references are copied anyway, this is not too bad,
I think.  Still, one MIGHT get fancy:

class transpose:
    class RowWrapper:
        def __init__(self, matrix, index):
            self.matrix = matrix
            self.index = index
        def __getitem__(self, otherindex):
            return self.matrix[otherindex][self.index]
    def __init__(self, matrix):
        self.matrix = matrix
    def __getitem__(self, index):
        if index >= len(self.matrix[0]):
            raise IndexError, index
        return self.RowWrapper(self.matrix, index)

with the same Python snippet.  But I honestly fail to
see any advantage to this abstruse approach -- seems
substantially more complex for no performance gain,
indeed I suspect it would perform less well (but I
have not taken the trouble to time it:-).


Alex





From emile at fenx.com  Sun Jan 28 09:27:05 2001
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 06:27:05 -0800
Subject: python-2.1 function attributes
References: <94vn23$j0k$1@panix6.panix.com>, <ul3snm8dfae.fsf@smaug.fsl.noaa.gov> <mailman.980662640.15627.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <951aa9$fehi9$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>

But move the function to a class and:

class G:
    def f(self):
        G.f.a = 2

works after invocation for instance.f().  With the naming
differences of methods vs functions, I like Mike Hudson's
syntactic sugar of using "." for the current
method/function, ala:

def f():
    .a = 1

class G:
    def f(self):
        .a = 2

At least when refactoring there's no ambiguity over what is
meant.  As it stands, if you try:

class G:
    def f(self):
        f.a = 2

is valid and changes f.a.

--

Emile van Sebille
emile at fenx.com
-------------------


"Moshe Zadka" <moshez at zadka.site.co.il> wrote in message
news:mailman.980662640.15627.python-list at python.org...
> On 27 Jan 2001 15:53:39 -0800, aahz at panix.com (Aahz
Maruch) wrote:
>
> > One thing I'm not clear on from all this discussion is
whether one can
> > do this:
> >
> > def f():
> >     f.a = 1
>
> Of course!
>
> Python 2.1a1 (#2, Jan 27 2001, 21:08:11)
> [GCC 2.95.3 20010111 (prerelease)] on linux2
> Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more
information.
> >>> def f():
> ...     f.a=1
> ...
> >>> f.a
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
> AttributeError: a
> >>> f()
> >>> f.a
> 1
>
> --
> Moshe Zadka <sig at zadka.site.co.il>
> This is a signature anti-virus.
> Please stop the spread of signature viruses!
> Fingerprint: 4BD1 7705 EEC0 260A 7F21  4817 C7FC A636 46D0
1BD6
>




From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Wed Jan 10 06:17:36 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 12:17:36 +0100
Subject: embedding python in C++
References: <934r1a$pda$1@troll.powertech.no> <93a3lp01kpg@news1.newsguy.com> <93b02a$tr8$1@troll.powertech.no> <93cq6n0186t@news1.newsguy.com> <YmE66.99$k25.1060@news1.oke.nextra.no> <93fgim04oc@news1.newsguy.com> <93g8sp$pcj$1@troll.powertech.no>
Message-ID: <93hgeq014d3@news2.newsguy.com>

"Syver Enstad" <syver at NOSPAMcyberwatcher.com> wrote in message
news:93g8sp$pcj$1 at troll.powertech.no...
>
> "Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote informatively as usual in
> news:93fgim04oc at news1.newsguy.com...
>
> > I don't know what happens if you don't let softspace be set & read
> > (i.e., whether print degrades gracefully or what)
> It seems to degrade gracefully in my experience, which is rather small.

Mine, zero (only time I needed a C-coded Python object to be
set as sys.stdout, I _did_ embue it with a softspace attribute!-).


> >-- note that all
> > Python instance objects ARE 'expando' (Javascript terminology) by
> > defaults, so you don't normally have to do anything special to enable
> > it, but, if you're using your own C-level type rather than a Python
> > implemented instance...
>
> Of course, thats why you don't have to have a softspace member in a py
> object. The caller just tags it onto the object when he needs to.

Just reiterating an important point: this is true for *instances*,
where such after-the-fact tagging is implemented; it may not be for
a typical C-coded type, unless care is taken to let the caller set
(and re-read) arbitrary attributes.


Alex





From sholden at holdenweb.com  Wed Jan 10 16:39:33 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 16:39:33 -0500
Subject: Reading Microsoft Outlook Express .dbx files
References: <mailman.979160302.21518.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <WF476.422$24.3251@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com>

"Tim Peters" <tim.one at home.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.979160302.21518.python-list at python.org...
> [Steve Holden]
> > ...
> > The problem with the usual techniques of saving as text, and some
> > mailing solutions, is that attachments are frequently ignored.
>
> Sorry, no idea what that means.  Ignored by whom?  If I tell Outlook to
mail
> an attachment, Outlook does not ignore my suggestion <wink>.  On the other
> end, the attachment Outlook generates is ignored only if the receiver
> intentionally ignores it.
>
I simply meant that some mailers forward messages without attachments, and
some don't. Haven't tested OE to see which category it falls in yet.

regards
 Steve




From ben.hutchings at roundpoint.com  Tue Jan 23 19:54:16 2001
From: ben.hutchings at roundpoint.com (Ben Hutchings)
Date: 23 Jan 2001 16:54:16 -0800
Subject: Problem with a tuple - newbie ignorance
References: <3A633531.9010303@yale.edu> <3A635C32.9E5285C5@yale.edu> <i1k76t8g9dr5fft0v0phcr98hb6qkdjbaq@4ax.com> <slrn968fk9.g0f.scarblac@pino.selwerd.nl> <nk096.27$eI2.11999@ruti.visi.com> <3A64D9E8.B1D52E1E@mail.mcg.edu> <mailman.979690160.4683.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <uhf2pixc7.fsf@roundpoint.com>

Neil Schemenauer <nas at arctrix.com> writes:

> On Tue, Jan 16, 2001 at 11:30:29PM +0000, Keith F. Woeltje wrote:
> > Normal (forward) slashes won't however work in a command prompt
> > window in Win2000.  Does the python interpreter make the change
> > "magically" (like it does the end of line marker)?
> 
> No.  I believe the Win32 API accepts either / or \ as a path
> separator .  Its the command shell that's braindead.  They can't
> use / because its used to signal a flag.  I guess Win2000 still
> shows its CP/M heritage.

Under DOS and Windows, each program is responsible for parsing its own
command lines.  So some commands, including those built into the
command interpreter, reserve / as a switch introducer, but others do
not.

-- 
Any opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily those of Roundpoint.


From zamri at sun1.ftsm.ukm.my  Fri Jan 19 22:10:45 2001
From: zamri at sun1.ftsm.ukm.my (Mohd Zamri Murah)
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 11:10:45 +0800
Subject: data structure/algorithm in python
Message-ID: <20010120111045.A9911@sun1.ftsm.ukm.my>

I am on my second stage of learning python. ( done the tutorial, read the
O'Reilly book, browse the library references, did smallish programs, etc)

Now, I am interested in how to implement certain algoritms/data structure in
python (binary tree, b++, avl, queue, etc)[1]. since there are yet any "data
structure/algorithm in python" book, do reading "data structure/agorithm in
java/C++" help? (get the basic idea from the book and try to implement it in
python) Or, the python <-> C++/Java have too much differences that reading
about data structure/algorithm in C++/Java will only confuse learning the
same thing in python?

hope to do; read Knuth's "fundamental algorithms" and able to "swing" an
algorithm/data structure with a blink of an eye.

zamri

[1] have seem a few binary tree, avl but each with difference
syntax/approach and very confusing for a newbie. 



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Thu Jan 18 06:19:36 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 12:19:36 +0100
Subject: Multiple constructors (part 2)
References: <D%o96.645$KD3.265469@typhoon.aracnet.com>
Message-ID: <946jit0a77@news2.newsguy.com>

"Daniel Klein" <DanielK at jBASE.com> wrote in message
news:D%o96.645$KD3.265469 at typhoon.aracnet.com...
> OK, I've researched and read the posts (and the FAQ) on how to simulate
> multiple constructors. Alex Martelli provided the most robust answer by
> testing the number of *args and executing the appropriate section of code.
> However in another post he says
>
> """
> This 'overloads' the constructors based on how many arguments
> are given -- how elegant (and how Pythonic...!) this is, being
> of course *debatable*.  Overloading on *types* would be less
> elegant *and* less Pythonic, though you could easily extend
> this idea to do it -- I would discourage it even more strongly.
> """

I think _this_ part of my response is what makes it "robust":-).

In other words, the best answer to this sort of queries is most
often: yes, you can do it (and here's how), but there are better
approaches (and here they are).  I didn't get _fully_ into the
"here's how" and "here they are" parts, admittedly.


> However, what I need to do is _exactly_ what is being discouraged, that is
> creating 3 constructors both with 2 arguments where the second argument of
> each is a different type. The real kicker is that in one of the
> constructors, I need to check the __class__ of the object to make sure the
> method is receiving the proper object. I have no problem coding this if
this
> is the way it has to be but if there are more acceptable (and Pythonic)
ways
> to do this, I would appreciate some pointers.

Why do you think you *NEED* to distinguish your processing based on
an argument's type, or class?  More likely, what you want to know
about an argument (to determine different processing in different
cases) is *how it BEHAVES* -- which you can't do by testing types,
or classes; rather, you may use hasattr or try/except to find out.

By focusing on behavior, rather than on type-identity, you make
life easier for the client-code programmer: he or she can then
make polymorphic use of your components with any instance that
implements the needed behavior, which IS all your code needs.

The idea of 'overloading' -- having a callable with a single given
name that maps to multiple internal callables depending on various
conditions -- is also related to polymorphism; the only good reason
to supply a single callable that maps to multiple ones is to let
client-code use that single callable polymorphically if need be.

It's generally a good idea to ALSO expose the multiple callables
directly -- don't make client-code programmers go through strange
contortions to make sure the 'right' overload is invoked in the
end; when their need are non-polymorphic, let them explicitly
state as much in the simplest possible way.  This does not sit in
well with 'constructors' -- which is why *factory functions* tend
to be preferable whenever any application need of some richness
and complexity is involved (factory callables that are not
functions are also OK, but meet a rarer, yet-more-involved need).

In Python (just like in VB, and other languages with the concept
of explicitly-named and default-valued arguments) you have another
stylistic alternative to 'multiple callables': one callable can
be explicitly used for several related purposes by supplying
different named-arguments.  This can easily be overdone (and VB
supplies a LOT of examples of this style being overused!-) but,
used with taste and moderation, it can be very helpful too.


Let's try to see one typical example.  We want to expose a class
Munger, whose instances need to be initialized with 'a lot of
data to be munged'; the 'lot of data' could be a file, a string,
or an instance of our own class DataBuffer which provides the
data-access features Munger instances need -- in fact, when we
are given a file or string, we construct a DataBuffer ourselves
and hold that anyway.

The 'overload' style might be:


class Munger:
    def __init__(self, data):
        name = type(data).__name__
        if name=='instance':
            name = data.__class__.__name__
        method = getattr(self, '_init_'+name)
        method(data)
    def _init_string(self, data):
        self.data = DataBuffer(data)
    def _init_file(self, data):
        self.data = DataBuffer(data)
    def _init_DataBuffer(self, data):
        self.data = data

Now, this IS intended as a 'bad example', and maybe I've overdone
the badness, but I hope at least it IS clear why doing it this
way would be heavily sub-optimal.  This does not exploit in any
way the polymorphism of *DataBuffer*'s own constructor, *AND*
it seriously inhibits polymorphism capabilities of client-code
(except via such tricks as naming a *class* as, say, 'string'...!).

It's clearly simpler to frame this as 'a Munger needs to be
passed a DataBuffer, or anything a DataBuffer may be built from':

class Munger:
    def __init__(self, data):
        if not isinstance(data, DataBuffer):
            data = DataBuffer(data)
        self.data = data

at least, we have some simplicity here.  Polymorphism is still
not optimal, though; if client-code wants to *mimic* a data
buffer, it needs to inherit from our DataBuffer class, even
if it's not using any of its implementation, just to satisfy
our isinstance check.  At the very least, one would 'split out'
from DataBuffer the interface and implementation parts:

class IDataBuffer:
    def rewind(self):
        raise TypeError, "must override .rewind method"
    def nextBytes(self, N):
        raise TypeError, "must override .nextBytes method"
    def pushBack(self, bytes):
        raise TypeError, "must override .pushBack method"

etc, with class DataBuffer inheriting from this (and providing
the needed overrides, of course) and the isinstance check
done against IDataBuffer.  Not very Pythonic, but workable
if there are a LOT of DataBuffer methods we need -- checking
for each of them separately may become more trouble than
it's worth.

DataBuffer's own 'overloading' ("am I being initialized from
a file or from a string?") needs to be handled.  Once again,
it would be *seriously* wrong to code:

class DataBuffer(IDataBuffer):
    def __init__(self, data):
        name = type(data).__name__
        if name=='instance':
            name = data.__class__.__name__
        method = getattr(self, '_init_'+name)
        method(data)
    def _init_string(self, data):
        self.data = data
        self.index = 0
    def _init_file(self, data):
        self.data = data.read()
        self.index = 0
    # etc etc

because it horribily inhibits client-code's polymorphism.
Here, all we need from a 'file object' is a .read method
we can call without arguments to supply our data -- so
why not code that directly...:

class DataBuffer(IDataBuffer):
    def __init__(self, data):
        try: self.data = data.read()
        except AttributeError: self.data=data
        self.index = 0
    # etc etc

this is MUCH simpler, of course.  One may add some
tests at initialization to ensure the resulting data
are usable for our purposes, but it's generally no
big problem if the error (if any) comes at first
usage rather than at initialization.


An alternative architecture is also worth considering.  DOES
client code REALLY NEED the polymorphism implicit in passing
a Munger constructor, either a file(-like) object, or a
string(-like) one, with very different implied semantics
regarding how one gets data from said object?  Python libraries
give us counterexamples of that -- file-like objects and
string-like ones are generally passed through *separate*
methods; there's no real polymorphism opportunity there!

So...:

class DataBuffer(IDataBuffer):
    def __init__(self, data):
        self.data = data
        self.index = 0
    # etc etc

class Munger:
    def __init__(self, data):
        self.data = data
    # etc etc

def FileMunger(afile):
    return Munger(DataBuffer(afile.read()))

def StringMunger(astring):
    return Munger(DataBuffer(astring))

There, isn't THIS better?  Two non-overloaded factory
functions, maximal simplicity in the constructors proper.

Client-code knows what it IS using to construct the
Munger and doesn't need the polymorphism -- it will
be clearer and more explicit and readable if it calls
FileMunger or StringMunger appropriately, and only
uses Munger's ctor directly for those cases where it
needs to reuse some existing IDataBuffer instance.

If very occasionally a polymorphic use may benefit
the client-code author, we can add a further factory
function for that purpose only:

def AnyMunger(mystery):
    if isinstance(mystery, IDataBuffer):
        return Munger(mystery)
    else:
        try: return FileMunger(mystery)
        except AttributeError: return StringMunger(mystery)

However, one doesn't go around just adding such stuff
*unless its appropriateness is clearly shown by some
specific use-case/scenario* -- "you ain't gonna need it"
is a GREAT design principle:-) [XP rules...!-)].


Now, this IS of course a toy-level example, but I hope
that just because of this it may show up the issues more
clearly -- and perhaps convince you to rethink your
design in simpler and more usable ways.


Alex





From m.bless at gmx.de  Tue Jan 30 16:40:14 2001
From: m.bless at gmx.de (Martin Bless)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 21:40:14 GMT
Subject: How to extend sys.path on Win9x permanently?
References: <3a75ef9c.11194652@news.muenster.de> <980811891.858385@clam-ext>
Message-ID: <3a7730ab.37058673@news.muenster.de>

On Tue, 30 Jan 2001 12:44:51 +1300, "Mark Hadfield"
<m.hadfield at niwa.cri.nz> wrote:

>> Registry?
>Yes. Take a look at the registry branch rooted at (for version 2.0)
>HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Python\PythonCore\2.0\PythonPath

Yes, it works.

To be exact, it's the
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Python\PythonCore\2.0\PythonPath\win32
key on my machine. It adds the extra path both in Python/DOS and
PythonWin. I had searched the registry but somehow overlooked it.

But what I like much better is the solution to put MYLIBS.PTH into the
Python dir. See thread.

Martin


From nicrayner at hotmail.com  Mon Jan  8 07:50:19 2001
From: nicrayner at hotmail.com (Nick Rayner)
Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2001 12:50:19 -0000
Subject: ok
Message-ID: <LAW2-F231cKElCJjEEF0000dd49@hotmail.com>

confirm 438765
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.




From scarblac at pino.selwerd.nl  Wed Jan 31 09:06:41 2001
From: scarblac at pino.selwerd.nl (Remco Gerlich)
Date: 31 Jan 2001 14:06:41 GMT
Subject: How do you lock your web app data?
References: <956uqd$6st$1@newsreaderg1.core.theplanet.net> <957286$kde$1@reader1.imaginet.fr>
Message-ID: <slrn97g6ho.h9u.scarblac@pino.selwerd.nl>

Gilles Lenfant <glenfant at equod.com.nospam> wrote in comp.lang.python:
> If you play with lot of small files and few users you can use "lock files"
> with the same name as the file the user is supposed to modify.
> This is not "pythonic" but a general algorythm that can be done in python or
> whatever:
> 
> start cgi
> if not exists "myfile.lock"
>   touch "myfile.lock"
>   # play with "myfile.txt"
>   ...
>   # end play with "myfile.txt"
>   rm "myfile.lock"
> else
>   reply "resource in use, come back later" to the user (or anything else
> relevant)
> endif
> end cgi

This doesn't work. First both threads check if the file doesn't exist, then
they both assume they're clear, make the file, and start corrupting each
other.

Something nearly like this does work, on Unix and Windows, as far as I know:
make a directory. This is guaranteed atomic (so they can't do it both at the
same time) and will give an exception when the directory already exists.

import os

def acquire_lock(filename):
   while 1:
      try:
         os.mkdir(filename+".lock")
         return
      except OSError:
         pass

def release_lock(filename):
   os.rmdir(filename+".lock")
   
acquire_lock("whee")
f = open("whee","a")
print >> f, "Whee!"
f.close()
release_lock("whee")

This is a very simplistic form of spinlock and you run into deadlock when
one of the processes bugs and doesn't release the lock, but simplicity is
good.

-- 
Remco Gerlich


From spamfranke at bigfoot.de  Mon Jan 22 08:05:16 2001
From: spamfranke at bigfoot.de (Stefan Franke)
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 13:05:16 GMT
Subject: Python & GUI?
References: <3A674896.C7E52247@crepido.com> <947j3i01h9k@news2.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <3a6c2f9c.2770560@news.btx.dtag.de>

On Thu, 18 Jan 2001 21:15:56 +0100, "Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote:
[...]
>my personal favorite, however, is Dynamic
>Html -- used in a cross-platform way, it has some limitations,
>but, targeting one specific and powerful browser (such as IE),
>it's awesome, 

I've no idea what's possible on this route, could you point me
to some examples (for IE)?

Stefan
 



From dyoo at hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu  Wed Jan 17 20:19:08 2001
From: dyoo at hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu (Daniel Yoo)
Date: 18 Jan 2001 01:19:08 GMT
Subject: "Total flattening" of a tuple
References: <WIo96.76570$eB2.6161239@news.infostrada.it>
Message-ID: <945gac$1jg$2@agate.berkeley.edu>

Giuseppe Bilotta <oblomov at freemail.it> wrote:
: Hello,

: I'd like to know if it's possible to "totally flatten" a tuple, or
to decompose it

I'm not sure if this is still useful to you, but here's some tuple
flattening code:


###
def flatten(t):
    if type(t) != type(()):
        return (t,)
    elif len(t) == 0:
        return ()
    else:
        return flatten(t[0]) + flatten(t[1:])
###


And here's a small test of it:

###
>>> flatten((1, 2, 3, 4, (5,), (), (), ((6, 7, (8,)))))
(1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8)
###


From ebecker at software-manufaktur.de  Sun Jan 28 09:20:14 2001
From: ebecker at software-manufaktur.de (Edelhard Becker)
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 15:20:14 +0100
Subject: Pyditor, Text editor fully extendible in python a la' Emacs
References: <mailman.980635233.16241.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrn978ab9.22c.ebecker@fram.software-manufaktur.de>

Hi Nahuel,

i've re-sorted the wishes. Most of them IMHO are already available in VIM
(http://www.vim.org/) directly or via additional scripts (e.g. CVS support).
Just remember to configure VIM with --enable-pythoninterp.

On Sat, 27 Jan 2001 19:38:48 -0300, Nahuel Greco <ngreco at softhome.net> wrote:
> 
> I have a dream, of a perfect text editor (im calling it pyditor, but name it
> as you want ):
> 
> 	* Coded in C/Python, Scriptable with python in the emacs/elisp way
> 	* Various backends - PyGTK, PyQT, PyQuartz(?), and.. (this is
> 	  important to me and too much other people) PyNcurses!
>           antialiased text if the backend support that. (soon gtk and qt)
> 	* ligthweight in speed & ram

	  (side note: this one obviously is _no_ attribute of emacs; sorry,
	  couldn't resist ;^)

> 	* Portable as python and the "backends" are
> 	* No python centric - i mean, no another IDLE, i want a editor that
>           you can script in python, but you can use (as modes in xemacs),
>           python-mode.py, c-mode.py, perl-mode.py, java-mode.py , etc etc.
>       * Filesystem abstraction - you can open&save files in an http site
>           (with webdav), ftp, inside a tar.gz, etc. (easy with python!)
> 	* CVS support
> 	* Crypt support (via GPG), open crypted files in the disk, edit them,
>           and save encrypted again.
> 	* Mouse capable but no mouse addict - there is keyb shorcuts for all
>           that you can do.. for example, if i have 3 editor windows opened, i
>           want to move to the window in the left of the current with 
>           alt+leftarrow
> 	* As i say before, "emacs modes", like fly-spell (auto word checking),
>           etc.
> 	* Easy use, as commands are documented in the modules via doc strings
>           and, most commands are reachable in a pull-down menu.
> 	* Editor modules repository - you need something for your editor?, 
>           go to File/Modules/Repository and then download the latest versions.
> 	  Also to avoid duplicate effort.
> 	* User / Newbie friendly, pulldown menus.
> 	* Centralized keyboard "shorcuts" managment - you can go to a screen
>           with all the key combinations registered and the modules that use
>           it... you can attach custom code to that keyboard event, or change
>           all of them to "emacs-friendly" o "vi-friendly" with only a click
> 	* pretty syntax highlighting

The following wishes are more or less system dependant or difficult to
implement:

> 	* Font handling, syntax highlighting, with color schemes
>           themables, (the default will be audited by an user interfase
>           expert :)
> 	* Easy configurable - the user can configure all the modules in the
>           same place, with a common interfase.
> 	* Good canvas - suppose that you can type latex code in a text window,
>           and see  at the same time the effects of that code in a latex 
>           wysiwyg rendered window, then, switch to the wysiwyg window, select
>           a different font from a pulldown box, change that window, and see
>           the changes reflected in the text window.

I'm not sure about these:

> 	* Jython portable?
> 	* Full UNICODE internationalization !!!!! (easy with python! :)
> 	* client server model like gnuclient / xemacs?

>  [.. more good ideas snipped ..]

>  Later, if you want to write a mail editor, you use the text editor module
>  inside your MUA framework, or your ide / interfase builder.

Use mutt (http://www.mutt.org/) with VIM as editor.

>  What do you think?

Many good ideas, mostly done (from a vim-point-of-view, Python integration
_could_ be better). Just "avoid duplicate effort" and don't start programming
YAE (yet another editor)...

>  There is already a project like this? (btw, i dont like wily :)
> 
> (Forgive my bad english :))
> ---------------------------------
>           Nahuel Greco
>    http://www.codelarvs.com.ar
>   Web Development - Open Source
>    Game programming - Research
> ---------------------------------

Enjoy!
Edelhard
-- 
% cat /usr/include/sys/errno.h                                                  
#define EPERM           1               /* Operation not permitted */           
#define ENOENT          2               /* No such file or directory */         
#define ESRCH           3               /* No such process */                   
#define EINTR           4               /* Interrupted system call */           
[...]
#define EMACS           666             /* Editor Too Large */                  
%


From moshez at zadka.site.co.il  Sat Jan 13 16:16:38 2001
From: moshez at zadka.site.co.il (Moshe Zadka)
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 23:16:38 +0200 (IST)
Subject: Web devel with python. Whats the best route?
In-Reply-To: <93pii2$c4c$2@newshost.accu.uu.nl>
References: <93pii2$c4c$2@newshost.accu.uu.nl>, <mailman.979331115.13089.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <20010113211638.A5DAAA828@darjeeling.zadka.site.co.il>

[Cliff Crawford]
> InterTran translates the phrase "Tim Peters" as "[Tim] Godfather".  :)

[Steve Holden]
> So he *is* a member of the PSU, or maybe even one of the leaders.
> I suspected this all along!

[Tim Peters]
> All right, I've had it.  It's time to come clean!  Here's the truth
> about all this! Actually, I've assasinated the real Tim Peters
> a few months ago, just before the move to BeOpen. Since it seemed
> BeOpen were on to me, I engineered the move to Digital Creations.
> But now, it seems it is all out in the open. 
> From now on, I make the rules. Guido was a figurehead I need
> no longer.

[Martijn Faassen]
> It appears there's some kind of bizarre interaction between 
> NNTP (or is it MailMan?) and temporal paradoxes here, that distorts
> messages on transmit, sometimes simply cutting out random parts.

Huh? I see no such thing at my end.
-- 
Moshe Zadka <sig at zadka.site.co.il>
This is a signature anti-virus. 
Please stop the spread of signature viruses!



From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Wed Jan 31 03:30:08 2001
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 08:30:08 +0000
Subject: Poor Programming Practice?
Message-ID: <jIEpVdAQ08d6Ew8J@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>

I have been trying to make use of the builtin medusa ftp_server classes
and after struggling a while came across the strange practice some
internal zope developer has of dynamically changing classes at runtime.

ie in ZServer.FTPServer I came across 

from medusa.ftp_server import ftp_channel, ftp_server, recv_channel
.......
.......
# Override ftp server receive channel reponse mechanism 
# XXX hack alert, this should probably be redone in a more OO way.

def handle_close (self):
    ..........
    self.readable=lambda :0 # don't call close again

recv_channel.handle_close=handle_close


which makes it virtually impossible to re-use medusa's ftp_server in a
reasonable way. The comment says it all.

The real problem is that ftp_channel uses a method make_recv_channel
which uses a global class recv_channel and the recv_channel class has a
particular method which zope wants to override. How ought this kind of
situation to be handled more cleanly?
-- 
Robin Becker


From rturpin at my-deja.com  Fri Jan  5 18:33:57 2001
From: rturpin at my-deja.com (rturpin at my-deja.com)
Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 23:33:57 GMT
Subject: How robust is Python ?
References: <LOBBJMHOIFOLFIPFANHJAEJFCHAA.zope@TheWebsons.com> <mailman.978716227.31692.python-list@python.org> <9354f9$vbi$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <935dus$cd2$1@saltmine.radix.net> <slrn95cfa3.lgi.grey@teleute.rpglink.com>
Message-ID: <935ll5$f7n$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

In article <slrn95cfa3.lgi.grey at teleute.rpglink.com>,
  morpheus at here.not.there wrote:
> Other than the obligatory "Don't use Windows for
> that", no.  :)

Two contradictory thoughts ..

(a) Cross-platform isn't really a challenge if you
mean only various Unices. That's too easy.

(b) "Forever" really means "until the platform is
next rebooted for other reasons." For a Sun or
Linux workstation, "forever" might be a year or
more. Windows has a clear advantage in this regard:
"forever" is shorter. A lot shorter.

Russell


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From s2mdalle at titan.vcu.edu  Sun Jan 28 00:09:22 2001
From: s2mdalle at titan.vcu.edu (David Allen)
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 05:09:22 GMT
Subject: Newbie Tkinter question
References: <mailman.980654913.6507.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <6QNc6.5350$pb6.1441348@typhoon2.ba-dsg.net>

In article <mailman.980654913.6507.python-list at python.org>, "jerry keeney"
<jerryleekeeney at yahoo.com> wrote:

> The following little program is giving me some problems.
> 
> The problem is with self.button2.  When this part of code is commented out,
> the program works.  When I uncomment it out, like here:  I get an invalid
> syntax error for  self.button2.grid(row=1,column=1)
> 
> What obvious thing am I missing here?

The 'column' keyword should be 'col', not 'column'.


-- 
David Allen
http://opop.nols.com/
----------------------------------------
A chubby man with a white beard and a red suit will approach you soon. 
Avoid him. He's a Commie.


From sandj.williams at gte.net  Tue Jan 23 10:21:47 2001
From: sandj.williams at gte.net (Steve Williams)
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 15:21:47 GMT
Subject: How do I know all thrown exceptions of a function?
References: <iEab6.8765$Qb7.1233360@newsb.telia.net>, <g3lb49.73s.ln@127.0.0.1> <94d93h$55d$1@troll.powertech.no> <mailman.980059223.25947.python-list@python.org> <Qeya6.7932$AH6.1260668@newsc.telia.net> <3A6B24F0.EA164698@gte.net> <94icr2$6kv$1@animus.fel.iae.nl> <3A6CDBDA.C3120F98@gte.net> <94ipci$afo$1@animus.fel.iae.nl> <3A6CFD8E.BD473DFD@gte.net> <mailman.980250867.29463.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3A6DA2F0.96BFAF2A@gte.net>

Moshe Zadka wrote:

> On Tue, 23 Jan 2001 07:45:18 GMT, "Fredrik Lundh" <fredrik at effbot.org> wrote:
>
> > No, the rule is "don't ever use from-import if you don't know what
> > you're doing".
>
> I think we can safely generalize this rule to "don't do things unless
> you understand the effects"...
> --
> Moshe Zadka <sig at zadka.site.co.il>
> This is a signature anti-virus.
> Please stop the spread of signature viruses!
> Fingerprint: 4BD1 7705 EEC0 260A 7F21  4817 C7FC A636 46D0 1BD6

Ars longa, vita brevis. . .



From b012414 at mail.dvz.fh-koeln.de  Fri Jan 12 11:14:53 2001
From: b012414 at mail.dvz.fh-koeln.de (Stephan Effelsberg)
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 17:14:53 +0100
Subject: Using reflection in Python?
References: <93lt6g$qdb$1@troll.powertech.no>
Message-ID: <3A5F2D7C.2353488@mail.dvz.fh-koeln.de>

Not a bad idea, but usually modules come with their own test harness which is in
many cases better than a universal tester.

But reflection reminds me to Java, which makes use it to get the properties of
JavaBeans.
Instead of testing you should use your reflection idea to create a framewok
similar to this one. Maybe you can call it PythonEggs.




From chris at voodooland.net  Thu Jan 11 12:00:36 2001
From: chris at voodooland.net (Chris Watson)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 11:00:36 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Starting application inside an application
In-Reply-To: <3A5D7722.2977BFE0@proceryon.at>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.21.0101111057150.35305-100000@open-systems.net>

Horst,

> What I want to do is simply starting a second instance of my application
> (just like starting the application from the command line a second
> time). I am looking for a function like spawnv() which unfortunately
> only works for the windows platform.

	Use os.spawnv works great on FreeBSD and Python 2.0 built fresh 
from the ports tree. It isn't in 1.x but it is in 2.0. I am assuming your
using 1.x since you say it's only a windows "feature". Just upgrade to
2.0. The call works like a charm :-)

#!/usr/local/bin/python

import os
host = raw_input("Enter a hostname: ");
os.spawnv(os.P_WAIT, '/usr/bin/scp', ('-v', 'x86bsd@%s:/home/x86bsd/TESTFILE' % host, '/tmp/TESTFILE'))

--
=============================================================================
-Chris Watson         (316) 326-3862 | FreeBSD Consultant, FreeBSD Geek 
Work:              scanner at jurai.net | Open Systems Inc., Wellington, Kansas
Home:  scanner at deceptively.shady.org | http://open-systems.net
=============================================================================
WINDOWS: "Where do you want to go today?"
LINUX: "Where do you want to go tomorrow?"
BSD: "Are you guys coming or what?"
=============================================================================
irc.openprojects.net #FreeBSD -Join the revolution!
ICQ: 20016186




From scott at csihq.com  Tue Jan  2 16:23:10 2001
From: scott at csihq.com (Scott Bortman)
Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2001 16:23:10 -0500
Subject: Q: JPython, NumPy, and PIL?
Message-ID: <t54h8osbuhc630@corp.supernews.com>

Hello,

Can I use the NumPy or PIL libraries from JPython?

Thanks in advance,
scottie




From patrickdlogan at home.com  Sun Jan  7 17:43:12 2001
From: patrickdlogan at home.com (Patrick Logan)
Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2001 22:43:12 GMT
Subject: CO-process
References: <93a535$n76$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <_2666.240898$U46.7569402@news1.sttls1.wa.home.com>
Message-ID: <4i666.240905$U46.7570799@news1.sttls1.wa.home.com>

<aotto2 at my-deja.com> wrote in message news:93a535$n76$1 at nnrp1.deja.com...
>
>   after Mirosoft create .NET , it's time to answer
>
>   have a look to:
>
>     http://home.t-online.de/home/aotto/mqcon_E.html

The CO-process does not seem to support multiple languages in the same OS
process operating on a shared object model/space. That seems to be a big
advantage of .net

CO-process appears to be based on multiple processes for everything. Is
communication based on sockets or some other network mechanism so the
processes are host-independent? That'd be interesting and flexible, but too
heavyweight for many of the things you'd want to use .net for.

--
Patrick Logan
mailto:patrickdlogan at home.com





From claird at starbase.neosoft.com  Tue Jan  2 12:51:59 2001
From: claird at starbase.neosoft.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: 2 Jan 2001 11:51:59 -0600
Subject: Pythonic concurrency (was: Erlang (was Re: Good introduction to
References: <mailman.977984412.30211.python-list@python.org> <92A081D417204A91.AF29627FD1BF4835.0C336CAB4734825B@lp.airnews.net> <3A4F8E91.3F29F97C@letterror.com> <G6GqJw.1oD@world.std.com>
Message-ID: <881A12DF74ECCB7D.31A676568924AC5F.3D8A4DED140164F7@lp.airnews.net>

In article <G6GqJw.1oD at world.std.com>, Will Ware <wware at world.std.com> wrote:
>> Cameron Laird wrote:
>> > Is this true:  microthreads block on system calls (I/O
>> > operations, most notoriously) and on invocations of
>> > externally-coded extensions?
>
>Just van Rossum (just at letterror.com) wrote:
>> They do.
>
>Yup, microthreads treat Python opcodes as atomic, including system I/O
>calls and calls to C extensions. This is because Stackless Python is a
>mechanism for tweaking the execution order of the Python virtual machine,
>which steps thru Python opcodes. My earlier assertion was sloppy. My bad.
			.
			.
			.
As you know, Will, this is a not-particularly-widely-understood
region of computing, and I think it can stand a bit more expo-
sure.  Your good (and you're good) for making it clear.

Naive readers might wonder, why does it matter?  Here's an
example:  you need a win32api calculation, maybe something com-
puted by an (external) Excel process.  You ask for the result.
Ten seconds later, it hasn't returned.  At this point, you might
want to tell the end-user, "We're still grinding; don't give up",
OR start an alternate calculation likely to yield an approximation
quickly OR signal Excel to give up OR ...  With a conventional
Python architecture, though, you can't.  Even if you put the Excel
invocation in its own thread or microthread, no other Python
thread can regain control until Excel gives it back.

That's a big issue for some people, while others go decades with-
out encountering it.

Correct, Just and Will?
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at NeoSoft.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://starbase.neosoft.com/~claird/home.html


From sheila at spamcop.net  Sat Jan 27 22:52:32 2001
From: sheila at spamcop.net (Sheila King)
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 03:52:32 GMT
Subject: [Off topic] allowed to put Python material on the Web?
References: <3a730931.31998180@news.skynet.be> <mf867t0go4en09o0of5r5johp8abgqvg2q@4ax.com> <3A73940E.2637C648@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <un577t4t7qqmhl5stlkru76i6521olh6mn@4ax.com>

On Sat, 27 Jan 2001 19:37:50 -0800, Erik Max Francis <max at alcyone.com> wrote
in comp.lang.python in article <3A73940E.2637C648 at alcyone.com>:

:Sheila King wrote:
:
:> Technically, once the messages are posted to Usenet, anyone can
:> archive and
:> copy them.
:	...
:> Authors of Usenet posts still retain copyright to
:> their own
:> material.
:
:These two statements are inconsistent with one another.  (The latter is
:the one that is correct, by the way.)

They are not inconsistent. Technically, you CAN archive and copy them. I can
archive and copy all the posts in this newsgroup, if I want to. I have the
ability, the hardware, the software and the know-how.

Now legally, ethically,... that is another matter...

--
Sheila King
http://www.thinkspot.net/sheila/
http://www.k12groups.org/



From johngrayson at home.com  Wed Jan 17 07:33:50 2001
From: johngrayson at home.com (John Grayson)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 12:33:50 GMT
Subject: Are there Tkinter examples somewhere?
References: <20010117000807.198D9E951@mail.python.org> <mailman.979701138.11862.python-list@python.org> <G7AIC7.HIJ@world.std.com>
Message-ID: <9443fe$nfa$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

In article <G7AIC7.HIJ at world.std.com>,
  wware at world.std.com (Will Ware) wrote:

For lots of example code you could try:

http://www.manning.com/Grayson/Source.html


   John


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From phys137 at mailcity.com  Wed Jan 10 19:49:35 2001
From: phys137 at mailcity.com (phys137 at mailcity.com)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 10:49:35 +1000
Subject: How to check on process time?
References: <93ie2i$bse$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <93iip0$jhu$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <93isdq$fhr$1@mail.pl.unisys.com>

long time ago i used sun's call 'getresourceusage' to obtain process times
on bsd - some other unixes had similar calls or not

on nt there are nice GetProcessTime and GetThreadTime calls

maybe a module like that could be added to Python's library?
I'm not volunteering to write it.
In case somebody wants here's some considerations:

most systems return process/thread cpu time with purported high resolution
(like 100nanoseconds) but the real accuracy is 1-10ms, sometimes even worse.
So no point in returning all these detailed stuff - 1ms accuracy is enough

most systems return elapsed time with similar accuracy when using 'standard'
c library. Yet some have microsecond clocks which actually work. On NT
current call for that is QueryPerformanceCounter and
QueryPerformanceFrequency.

System call overheads are in order of several microseconds.

64bit integers are generally useful for that - pity Python doesn't have
them.

here's some very bad sample code from nt (it should use __int64 instead)

        HANDLE hP = OpenProcess(PROCESS_QUERY_INFORMATION, true,
GetCurrentProcessId());
        FILETIME creation, exit, kernel, user;
        if (!GetProcessTimes((HANDLE) hP, &creation, &exit, &kernel, &user))
        {
                return -1;
        }
        // we divide processor time (in .1ms units) by 256, to make it
        // fit into 32 bit int. then we return the sum of kernel and user
        // the units are then 25.5 microseconds and range is 109951 seconds
        // all of these because of the lack of 64 bit add / subtract in
NT...
        LARGE_INTEGER li;
        li.LowPart = kernel.dwLowDateTime;
        li.HighPart = kernel.dwHighDateTime;
        long kernelTime = Int64ShraMod32(li.QuadPart,8) & 0xFFFFFFFF;
        li.LowPart = user.dwLowDateTime;
        li.HighPart = user.dwHighDateTime;
        long userTime = Int64ShraMod32(li.QuadPart,8) & 0xFFFFFFFF;
        return kernelTime + userTime;



"Donn Cave" <donn at u.washington.edu> wrote in message
news:93iip0$jhu$1 at nntp6.u.washington.edu...
> Quoth noahspurrier at my-deja.com:
> | Which Python library do I want to get extensive process information?
> | I need to look at any process running -- not just the parent, current,
> | or child processes.
>
> As far as I know, that isn't supported on contemporary computer
> platforms, at least in any meaningfully portable way, and that
> would be why you don't see anything for it in Python.  The "ps"
> command doesn't use any kind of API, it just reads kernel memory
> where this stuff is stored.
>
> If it doesn't need to be portable, and your present platform
> supports it, I'd say use the "/proc" filesystem.  The following
> prints accumulated times, on FreeBSD 4.1.
>
> Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu
> ----------------------------------------
> import errno
> import posix
> import string
>
> def ps():
>         proc = posix.listdir('/proc')
>         for pid in proc:
>                 try:
>                         pidval = string.atoi(pid)
>                 except ValueError:
> #  Ignore /proc/curproc etc.
>                         continue
>                 try:
>                         fp = open('/proc/%s/status' % (pid,), 'r')
>                 except IOError, val:
>                         if val.errno == errno.ENOENT:
>                                 print pid, '... already gone'
>                                 continue
>                         else:
>                                 raise
>                 ln = fp.readline()
>                 fp.close()
>                 ln = string.split(ln)
>                 cmd = ln[0]
>                 uss, usu = map(string.atoi, string.split(ln[8], ','))
>                 sys, syu = map(string.atoi, string.split(ln[9], ','))
>                 print '%5s %-14s%6d.%06d %d.%09d' % (pid, cmd, uss, usu,
sys, syu)
>
> ps()




From mjackson at wc.eso.mc.xerox.com  Fri Jan  5 16:24:57 2001
From: mjackson at wc.eso.mc.xerox.com (Mark Jackson)
Date: 5 Jan 2001 21:24:57 GMT
Subject: bug with command line option - in 1.5.2?
References: <3a561b87$1_1@news.nwlink.com>
Message-ID: <935e39$q5g$1@news.wrc.xerox.com>

"Travis Hume" <travis.hume at tenzing.com> writes:
> Given a simple python script
> 
> 
> 	import sys
> 	print sys.argv[1]
> 
> 
> Shouldn't the command
> 
> 	python - foo < testpy.py
> 
> print the word foo to stdout?  Instead I'm getting this
> 
> 	~/tmp >python - foo < testpy.py
> 	python: can't open file 'foo'
> 	~/tmp >

Both "python - foo < testpy.py" and "python testpy.py foo" work for me
(1.5.2 on Solaris 5.6):

    yngvi> python - foo < testpy.py
    foo
    yngvi> python testpy.py cat
    cat

Does the latter work for you?

-- 
Mark Jackson - http://www.alumni.caltech.edu/~mjackson
	The power of accurate observation is frequently called
	cynicism by those who don't have it.
			- George Bernard Shaw




From fredrik at effbot.org  Wed Jan  3 16:45:28 2001
From: fredrik at effbot.org (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 21:45:28 GMT
Subject: Name Error
References: <3A5395B5.EBE77FA4@bioeng.ucsd.edu>
Message-ID: <Y3N46.3526$Qb7.440895@newsb.telia.net>

Curtis Jensen wrote:
> Below is a bit from my Python interpreter.  The "stored_data" variable
> is a global list.  It should be seen from within the "send_data"
> function.  However, I get a NameError here.  I ran it with pdb; pdb is
> able to output the "stored_data" variable from within the "send_data"
> function.  However, it still gives a NameError.
>
> "stored_data" works in all of my other functions except this one?  Any
> ideas?

Python 1.5.2?  do you by any chance assign to "stored_data" in
that function?

(if you can, please post the source for send_data...)

cheers /F




From beno at TheWebsons.com  Sat Jan 20 12:43:38 2001
From: beno at TheWebsons.com (Ben Ocean)
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 09:43:38 -0800
Subject: Tweaking for New Co-lo
Message-ID: <LOBBJMHOIFOLFIPFANHJOEBGCMAA.beno@TheWebsons.com>

Hi;
I just moved my server. What a joy. Now my python install (on RedHat 6.2) is
broken. Do I need to rebuild from scratch or is there an easy fix?
TIA,
BenO
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From moshez at zadka.site.co.il  Sun Jan 14 21:31:52 2001
From: moshez at zadka.site.co.il (Moshe Zadka)
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 04:31:52 +0200 (IST)
Subject: how do i disable buffered output, like Perl's '$|=1'?
In-Reply-To: <979490967.23219.0.pluto.d4ee691b@news.demon.nl>
References: <979490967.23219.0.pluto.d4ee691b@news.demon.nl>
Message-ID: <20010115023152.B51A3A828@darjeeling.zadka.site.co.il>

On Sun, 14 Jan 2001 17:58:52 +0100, "floR" <flor_pino at hotmail.com> wrote:
> I can't find anywhere how I can disable 'buffered output', or whatever it is
> called.
> In Perl, you simply say $|=1, but in Python?
> Can anyone help me?

If you want to flush, you can use fp.flush()
(E.g., sys.stdout.flush()).

If you want stdout to autoflush you can do:

class AutoFlusher:

	def __init__(self, fp):
		self.fp = fp

	def write(self, s):
		self.fp.write(s)
		self.fp.flush()

	def writelines(self, lines):
		self.fp.writelines(lines)
		self.fp.flush()

sys.stdout = AutoFlusher(sys.stdout)
-- 
Moshe Zadka <sig at zadka.site.co.il>
This is a signature anti-virus. 
Please stop the spread of signature viruses!



From db3l at fitlinxx.com  Fri Jan 26 00:48:40 2001
From: db3l at fitlinxx.com (David Bolen)
Date: 26 Jan 2001 00:48:40 -0500
Subject: Scripting WMI with win32com
Message-ID: <uitn2sw1z.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com>

I was wondering if anyone has done scripting of WMI with win32com and
dealt with making method calls after parsing the typelib?  I've been
experimenting to see if it would be usable for management of LANs in
the field, and in general it looks nice, but I run into some issues
when trying to invoke methods on provider objects (such as the Win32
provider).

What seems to happen is that running makepy on the provider library
identifies all of the SWbem* objects, but when I obtain a provider
object, it just looks like an instance of SWbemObject.  That makes
sense, but I'm having difficulty figuring out how to invoke a method
on such an object cleanly and access properties.  It would appear that
both VBScript and JScript have some special support for this, which
involves looking at the Properties_ and (I suppose) Methods_
collections when a direct notation (e.g., object.value or
object.call()) is used.

I had some issues with accessing properties too, but found some older
threads that showed a function-call method of doing a name lookup on
the Properties_ value (or via the Item call) which works fine.  But
I'm not quite sure how to play with the methods.  

In some respects, it's almost easier if I use the dynamic approach
since I'm getting caught by the actual Python objects generated by
makepy - if it just passes the attribute and method operations through
they work.  (But of course I'm sure I'll find something that won't handle
the parameters or output right without the typelib).

Thanks for any help.

--
-- David
-- 
/-----------------------------------------------------------------------\
 \               David Bolen            \   E-mail: db3l at fitlinxx.com  /
  |             FitLinxx, Inc.            \  Phone: (203) 708-5192    |
 /  860 Canal Street, Stamford, CT  06902   \  Fax: (203) 316-5150     \
\-----------------------------------------------------------------------/


From m.hadfield at niwa.cri.nz  Mon Jan 29 18:44:51 2001
From: m.hadfield at niwa.cri.nz (Mark Hadfield)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 12:44:51 +1300
Subject: How to extend sys.path on Win9x permanently?
References: <3a75ef9c.11194652@news.muenster.de>
Message-ID: <980811891.858385@clam-ext>

> (1) I'd like   Python.exe/DOS    AND   Python in PythonWin   to start
> up  with an extended sys.path, having my own lib added,  as if a
> sys.path.append('c:\\mylib') had already been performed.
> How can I add the extra path permanently?

Edit the registry--see below

> (2) Here's what sys.path is on my machine. Where is this defined?
> Registry?

Yes. Take a look at the registry branch rooted at (for version 2.0)

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Python\PythonCore\2.0\PythonPath

You should be able to deduce how it works.

> (3) I'd hate having to put something like "set $PYTHONPATH=..." into
> AUTOSTART.BAT, since DOS environment space is very limited.

No need.

---
Mark Hadfield
m.hadfield at niwa.cri.nz  http://katipo.niwa.cri.nz/~hadfield/
National Institute for Water and Atmospheric Research
PO Box 14-901, Wellington, New Zealand





From gerhard.nospam at bigfoot.de  Mon Jan  1 16:37:46 2001
From: gerhard.nospam at bigfoot.de (Gerhard =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2001 22:37:46 +0100
Subject: Recursion
References: <mailman.978382742.16948.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrn951uni.rl.gerhard.nospam@lilith.hqd-internal.de>

The highest value that works for me (Python 2.0/Linux x86) is 999L. Adding L
to a number makes it of type 'long' instead of type 'int'. Perhaps Perl and
Ruby do automatically use long when necessary.

On Mon, 1 Jan 2001 15:54:13 -0500, Bob Calco <rcalco at cortechs.com> wrote:
>PYTHON
>======
>import sys
>
>def factor(n):
>  if n == 1:
>    return 1
>  else:
>    return n*factor(n-1)
>
>print factor(int(sys.argv[1]))

-- 
mail:   gerhard <at> bigfoot <dot> de
web:    http://highqualdev.com


From jhorSPAMBGONneman at wanadoo.fr  Mon Jan 29 14:19:57 2001
From: jhorSPAMBGONneman at wanadoo.fr (Jurie Horneman)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 20:19:57 +0100
Subject: Unicode pb in Python 2.0 solved - no thanks to WinPython - I mean, PythonWin
References: <95b65r$l27$1@wanadoo.fr> <m3d7d27fjx.fsf@atrus.jesus.cam.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <95ccqg$h0r$1@wanadoo.fr>

"Michael Hudson" <mwh21 at cam.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:m3d7d27fjx.fsf at atrus.jesus.cam.ac.uk...
"Jurie Horneman" <jhorSPAMBGONneman at wanadoo.fr> writes:

> I would very much like to "RTFM", and believe me I tried, but there isn't
> much M to FR. How could I have avoided this problem with less agony?
Should
> I report the bug to the authors of WinPython?

>>Do you mean PythonWin?  I would, yes.<<

OK, any remaining credibility I had is now gone ;)

Yes, I meant PythonWin. I'll go find the site and report it.

--
Jurie Horneman
Opinions expressed are my own
jhorSPAMBGONneman at wanadoo.fr





From fredrik at effbot.org  Wed Jan 17 03:17:14 2001
From: fredrik at effbot.org (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 08:17:14 GMT
Subject: Command language definition
References: <3A6542EC.99ED1149@intes.de> <20010117082100.A21854@yetix.sz-sb.de> <mailman.979718299.22940.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <eyc96.6777$Qb7.992987@newsb.telia.net>

Rolf FISCHER wrote:
> My first (and very raw) impression on python was, that the tool has excellent
> capabilites in easy programming, but I didn't see anything the like to check a
> syntax or to define one. This is why I asked for additional tools.

The first and most obvious question is of course why you
cannot use Python itself as the command language...

    http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/module-code.html

If you insist on building your own command language, you can
perhaps use the cmd (simple CLI) or shlex (shell-like lexing)
modules:

    http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/module-cmd.html
    http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/module-shlex.html

For fancier stuff, skip over to the vaults of parnassus and look
under "programming tasks, parsing and formatting"

    http://www.vex.net/parnassus/

Hope this helps!

Cheers /F




From tjreedy at udel.edu  Thu Jan 18 18:54:33 2001
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 18:54:33 -0500
Subject: Garbage collector - please Help !!
References: <9475ob$c6v$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <kusnmgd86f.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>
Message-ID: <947vml$fd0$1@news.udel.edu>

> the reference counting gc in python 1.5 does not work if you have
> cyclic references between objects. it is fixed in 2.0.

If you explicitly import the gc module and call the gc function.




From cfelling at iae.nl  Sat Jan 27 22:03:34 2001
From: cfelling at iae.nl (Carel Fellinger)
Date: 28 Jan 2001 04:03:34 +0100
Subject: . Python 2.1 function attributes
References: <mailman.980637154.18503.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <950266$j06$1@animus.fel.iae.nl>

Tim Peters <tim.one at home.com> wrote:

>> -why don't we have $ and @ and \ operators-ly yrs-

> Because so far, Guido hates them.  This is usually something you can count
> on for life.  But, e.g., in the past he disliked the idea of being able to
> say

>     if key in dict:

Yuckideyuck! Just what are you feeding Guido.From carel Sun Jan 28 03:26:24 2001
From: Carel Fellinger <cfelling at iae.nl>
Subject: klets
Newsgroups: thuis.test
Organization: 
Summary: 
Keywords: 

sd fsdf sdf 
sd fsd
-- 
groetjes, carel


From root at rainerdeyke.com  Mon Jan 29 13:59:38 2001
From: root at rainerdeyke.com (Rainer Deyke)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 18:59:38 GMT
Subject: marshal doesn't work with "file-like" objects
References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010126135016.029c4d90@mail.mindspring.com> <mailman.980540325.4462.python-list@python.org> <94t1bi$m73$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <mailman.980557896.25345.python-list@python.org> <950ab5$2h2$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <ku4ryj5zt3.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi> <9546kl$q4$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <u4jd6.131324$ge4.47830942@news2.rdc2.tx.home.com>

<echuck at mindspring.com> wrote in message news:9546kl$q4$1 at nnrp1.deja.com...
> In article <ku4ryj5zt3.fsf at lasipalatsi.fi>,
>   Erno Kuusela <erno-news at erno.iki.fi> wrote:
> > did you try cPickle's binary mode? it is many times faster than
> > the default text mode at least on my machine.
>
> Yes, my benchmark was cPickle vs. marshal. If you look at the extra
> benefits that pickle offers over marshal (providing custom hooks,
> handling recursive data structures, handling user-defined objects, etc.)
> it's clear that marshal pretty much *has* to be faster, provided that
> both implementations are high quality.

He was refering to binary vs text mode within cPickle, not pickle vs
cPickle.


--
Rainer Deyke (root at rainerdeyke.com)
Shareware computer games           -           http://rainerdeyke.com
"In ihren Reihen zu stehen heisst unter Feinden zu kaempfen" - Abigor




From clarence at netlojix.com  Tue Jan 30 13:10:20 2001
From: clarence at netlojix.com (Clarence Gardner)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 10:10:20 -0800
Subject: Thread Safety
References: <mailman.980830666.19077.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <980878523.1347842479@news.silcom.com>

I'll make a last contribution to this thread, reiterating Timmy's wisdom:
>cleverness-is-the-#1-cause-of-thread-bugs-ly y'rs  - tim
and
>"thread safety" is not an absolute judgment

I received a message in email saying that my function was thread-safe
after all:

> >> Python executes bytecodes atomically, but makes no guarantees beyond that.
> >> Do you still think you're "threadsafe"?
> > Nope.
> You'd be wrong.
> > [...] given that the function shown is the only place that
> > the Pending... names are bound (other than initialization).
> That's why you're wrong.
> > answer to "That's not safe, no".  Given the need for mutex, I'll change
> > them to classes, I think.
> [...]
> > Of course, I'll need to protect all the additions to the lists, also.
> You don't need a mutex, and you don't need to protect any additions to
> (or removals from) the lists.  As long as nothing else _assigns_
> ("binds" by the common Pythonic misuse of that word) the global
> variable, which you've said above isn't going to happen, there's no
> possibility of losing items.  It doesn't make the slightest difference
> whether you use
>   data, Pending... = Pending..., []
> or
>   data = Pending...
>   Pending... = []
> though; either way is thread-safe given the above condition.

Now, my original question related to the
    Data,PendingDataStorage = PendingDataStorage,[]
type of statements, but nonetheless, with respect to the actual context,
    Data,PendingDataStorage = PendingDataStorage,[]
    if Data:
        StoreDataPoints(Data)
this is not safe; even though an append to PendingDataStorage done elsewhere
will not be lost (it will appear in either Data or the new PendingDataStorage),
it might appear in Data *after* the StoreDataPoints function runs, which is
effectively the same as losing it.

Looking at code for the append,
         18 LOAD_GLOBAL              1 (PendingDataStorage)
         21 LOAD_ATTR                2 (append)
         24 LOAD_FAST                0 (data)
         27 CALL_FUNCTION            1
this situation would arise if StoreDataPoints is called (and completes) after
instruction #18 and before #27.

cleverness?-I've-got-some-cheap-ly y'rs - clarence

(I said in a post almost three years ago that I wouldn't cheapen Tim's
signature art form with my pedestrian attempts; I guess I lied :) )


From moshez at zadka.site.co.il  Mon Jan  8 16:20:17 2001
From: moshez at zadka.site.co.il (Moshe Zadka)
Date: Mon,  8 Jan 2001 23:20:17 +0200 (IST)
Subject: zombie question
In-Reply-To: <93c19g$5k7$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
References: <93c19g$5k7$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <20010108212017.68C4CA82D@darjeeling.zadka.site.co.il>

On Mon, 08 Jan 2001 09:29:25 GMT, jianchen at my-deja.com wrote:

> I have tried some methods from W.R.Stevens's famous work Unix Network
> Programming such as catch the SIGCHLD signal in the daemon process. But
> strangly when the child process exit, no signal send! Even when I
> explicitly use kill to send SIGCHLD signal to the parent process, the
> signal function seems not get called! ;(

can you post a short code example?
Nothing with SMTP, just something that registers the handler, creates
a child, and the child dies.
-- 
Moshe Zadka <sig at zadka.site.co.il>
This is a signature anti-virus. 
Please stop the spread of signature viruses!



From laura_01 at my-deja.com  Sat Jan 20 18:01:31 2001
From: laura_01 at my-deja.com (laura_01 at my-deja.com)
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 23:01:31 GMT
Subject: Neophyte looking for good books on Python
References: <94ak66$dra$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <94aulr$m1o$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <980023572.27042@iris.nyx.net>
Message-ID: <94d5c9$99m$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

Hi,
That's an interesting idea you suggest on price point, and I think it
can work for e-books.  In this particular case, I can say (as Fredrik
did) that Mark's 2nd edition is completely new (I'd say 80% new).
Therefore, it will be like buying a new book anyway.
Laura
LLewin at oreilly.com

In article <980023572.27042 at iris.nyx.net>,
  sarayu balu <sbalu at nyx.net> wrote:
> laura_01 at my-deja.com wrote:
> : Hi! The next edition of "Programming Python" by Mark Lutz is due
out in
> : early March,
> : if you can wait about a month.
>
> : Laura
> : LLewin at oreilly.com
>
> I have the old edition of "Programming Python" by Mark Lutz.
> I do not know if Oreilly suggests that I pay the full price
> for this new edition. These days, there seems to be a newer
> edition so often, that we programmers have become suckers
> for the publishing company. Java is the classical example.
>
> Oreilly should take the leadership in this area, in selling
> newer editions at substantial discounts for owners of older
> editions, or follow Bruce Eckel's model of putting the whole
> book on the web. What do you folks think ?
> -sb
> --
> Dr.Sarayu Balu,M.D.,FAAP			Tel.(802)888-2448
> Ryder Brook Pediatrics,
> P.O.Box 608, Morrisville, VT 05661.
>


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From daniel.dittmar at sap.com  Fri Jan 19 12:30:00 2001
From: daniel.dittmar at sap.com (Daniel Dittmar)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 18:30:00 +0100
Subject: Global interpreter locks, thread states et al...
References: <979902284.26681.1.nnrp-10.c3ad12d2@news.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: <949tiq$cn$1@news1.wdf.sap-ag.de>

I found the python standard modules to be excellent examples. Grep for the
macros and see how they are used.

Daniel

--
Daniel Dittmar
daniel.dittmar at sap.com
SAP DB, SAP Labs Berlin
http://www.sapdb.org/

"Toby" <t.harris at robinsons.co.uk> wrote in message
news:979902284.26681.1.nnrp-10.c3ad12d2 at news.demon.co.uk...
> Are there any examples (other than pysvr.c shipped with Python 2.0) to
> explain the appropriate calls and architecture ? documentation seems to be
a
> little sketchy..
>
> Toby
>
>




From phd at phd.pp.ru  Tue Jan 23 07:04:48 2001
From: phd at phd.pp.ru (Oleg Broytmann)
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 15:04:48 +0300 (MSK)
Subject: os.system easy question
In-Reply-To: <kuhf2q8pl4.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0101231502480.9765-100000@fep132.fep.ru>

On 23 Jan 2001, Erno Kuusela wrote:
> import signal, os
> class BgProc:

   Found on http://www.vex.net/parnassus/apyllo.py/990075885:

   "Process.py: high-level process class, plus some high-level
functions."
   http://www.lib.uchicago.edu/~tao/software/libraries/Process2.py

Oleg.
----
     Oleg Broytmann            http://phd.pp.ru/            phd at phd.pp.ru
           Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN.




From claird at starbase.neosoft.com  Wed Jan 24 09:18:43 2001
From: claird at starbase.neosoft.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: 24 Jan 2001 08:18:43 -0600
Subject: Conspiracy Revealed
References: <mailman.980331421.18849.python-list@python.org> <mAyb6.9009$Qb7.1276386@newsb.telia.net>
Message-ID: <585D1BBE4D788B4E.35313289DCB42713.B5A348AE8684A9E7@lp.airnews.net>

In article <mAyb6.9009$Qb7.1276386 at newsb.telia.net>,
Fredrik Lundh <fredrik at effbot.org> wrote:
>anonymous at zadka.site.co.il (doubt you'll need Don Foster
>to figure out who hides behind this nom de guerre) wrote:
>
>> Tim is actually an alien intelegience, capable of taking over people's
>> minds
>
>he's pure software.  part lisp, part python.
>
>> Alex Martelli came into c.l.py and started to write scarily-timbot-like
>> postings
>
>same software, different verbosity settings (this one
>goes to eleven)
>
>

Incidentally, where's the PSA been relocated?  I've
got a DVD of "This is Spinal Tap" I've been intending
to donate.
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at NeoSoft.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://starbase.neosoft.com/~claird/home.html


From clgonsal at keeshah.penguinpowered.com  Mon Jan 29 03:01:55 2001
From: clgonsal at keeshah.penguinpowered.com (C.Laurence Gonsalves)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 08:01:55 GMT
Subject: curly-brace-aphobic?
References: <3A74EBD6.3C87FD15@seebelow.org>
Message-ID: <slrn97a9fu.7sf.clgonsal@keeshah.penguinpowered.com>

On Sun, 28 Jan 2001 22:04:38 -0600, Grant Griffin
<not.this at seebelow.org> wrote:
>Hi Gang,
>
>I'm sure this has been asked a thousand times, but I haven't seen it
>asked lately (or ever <wink>).
>
>Why does Python use square braces ([]) instead of curly braces ({})
>when accessing dictionaries?
>
>This strange inconsistency in Python seems strangely inconsistent with
>its otherwise very consistent application of consistency: since we use

I think there are many that would argue that using a different notation
would be far *more* inconsistent. 

x[y] gets the thing that x maps y to. In Python, a sequence is a map of
integers to values, while a dictionary is a map of arbitrary keys to
values. Why use a different notation for what's really the same sort of
thing?

Actually, the thing that's always bugged me is that Python makes a
distinction between subscripting (__getattr__) and function calls
(__call__). Mathematically speaking, a dictionary is really just a
function that maps from 'keys' to 'values'.

It always seems silly to me that given:

    m = {'one': 1, 'two':2}
    l = ['two', 'one']

one can't write:

    map(m, l)

Instead one has to write:

    map(m.get, l)

or (depending on your level of paranoia):

    map(lambda k,m=m:m[k], l)

>Anyway, although curly braces are perhaps slightly harder to type than
>square braces, this is one example (maybe the only one) where I find
>Perl code more readable: I appreciate the mnemonic effect curly braces
>have in reminding me that the thing being accessed is a dictionary*.

I'm not sure why you need to be reminded whether something is a sequence
or a dictionary.

-- 
  C. Laurence Gonsalves                "Any sufficiently advanced
  clgonsal at kami.com                     technology is indistinguishable
  http://cryogen.com/clgonsal/          from magic." -- Arthur C. Clarke


From timr at probo.com  Thu Jan 11 00:22:54 2001
From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 21:22:54 -0800
Subject: compiling .cgi files
References: <mailman.979152311.14641.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <mmgq5t4gd8ts470f2jsc07oh18gainc7ot@4ax.com>

carlhiga at yahoo.com wrote:
>
>I'm running some python cgi scripts that need to have the '.cgi' 
>extension in their filename.
>
>Is there anyway to get them to be byte code compiled? I understand 
>that if they were '.py' files I could simply import them using the 
>interpreter and it would produce the '.pyc' files. But I don't know 
>how to do this with '.cgi' files.

What about this?  It's not too ugly, and the "import" will cause the pyc to
be generated and used.

myscript.cgi:
  #! /usr/bin/python
  import myscript

myscript.py:
  #! /usr/bin/python
  # ... rest of the script ..
--
- Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
  Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.


From hvrosen at world-online.no  Wed Jan 31 17:46:17 2001
From: hvrosen at world-online.no (Henning VON ROSEN)
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 23:46:17 +0100
Subject: Best way to match everything between tags 
Message-ID: <DA0e6.94$o3.4354@news.world-online.no>

Hi!
I am learning regular expressions.

What is thenatural way to match everything that is not "something"
fx i want to maipulate all the text of a html document, but none of the tags


This matches all the tags;

s="text<body>some text<tag>more text</tag>text"
r = re.compile(r"<.*?>")
 print r.sub("WWW",s)

this works fine if I want to manipulate the tags, but I want to maipulate
the text between tags

I haven't found a one-expression way. Thankful for any indications!

/Henning von Rosen




From fabrice.n at home.com  Sun Jan 28 13:56:54 2001
From: fabrice.n at home.com (shaka)
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 18:56:54 GMT
Subject: Anyone get python on win98??
Message-ID: <WXZc6.8032$KP3.2632221@news3.rdc1.on.home.com>


Ok, I need some help here.  I just download python on my computer.
I installed it to     C:\programming\python20

I know how to use the interactive mode.  And when write a script I usually
run it from the editor(idle) by clicking on "run script".

But when I try to run the script using the interpreter, it doesn't work.
What I do is to type the name of the script.py in the interactive mode. It
always give me an error message like:
                        Traceback (most recent call last):
                          File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
                        NameError: There is no variable named 'hello'

Is the interpreter suppose to be in interactive mode everytime?

If you have no idea of what I am talking about, can you just describe me how
you usually run your script.







From mike at thebumblebee.com  Sat Jan 20 20:41:25 2001
From: mike at thebumblebee.com (Mike Morasky)
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 17:41:25 -0800
Subject: relocation problems
Message-ID: <3A6A3E45.960FAD45@thebumblebee.com>

I've written a stack of python extension modules and fear that I have
outgrown the allowable dynamic addressing space.
When loading a module I get:

ImportError: /usr/local/lib/foo.so: R_PPC_REL24 relocation out of range

I'm assuming that I've (unbelievably) outgrown the allowable address
space of dynamically loaded modules.
I'm somewhat new to dsos on linux so if anyone could shed a little light
on this I'd appreciate it.





From fredp at mygale.org.nospam  Fri Jan 12 03:46:33 2001
From: fredp at mygale.org.nospam (Fred Pacquier)
Date: 12 Jan 2001 08:46:33 GMT
Subject: ANNOUNCE: PyXPCOM - Python bindings for Mozilla XPCOM technology
References: <93le4v$10m$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <Xns9027638F22DF3PaCmAnRDLM@161.48.76.20>

Mark Hammond <MarkH at ActiveState.com> said :

>ActiveState is pleased to announce the first release of the Python
>bindings for the Mozilla XPCOM (Cross-Platform COM) technology.

Great news ! Thanks to you & to AS Mark...

One thing isn't very clear to me though : do these bindings allow Python to 
directly manipulate the Gecko rendering engine, or do they talk to some 
abstraction layer(s) above that ?
To illustrate the question I'm thinking about what Galeon (for Unix) or K-
meleon (for Win32) are doing on the one hand, vs. scripting the actual 
Mozilla interface (requiring the whole enchilada) on the other hand.
Sorry if the question is really dumb, but I'm quite lost in the complexity 
of the Mozilla architecture right now :)

-- 
YAFAP : http://www.multimania.com/fredp/


From hadidab at yahoo.fr  Fri Jan 26 07:23:09 2001
From: hadidab at yahoo.fr (=?iso-8859-1?q?ABDENOUR=20HADID?=)
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 13:23:09 +0100 (CET)
Subject: how to excecute the script..
Message-ID: <20010126122309.12576.qmail@web206.mail.yahoo.com>

dear friends;

i just started to progam with python. I download it
and I can write and excute somethings in the
interpreter....

but I want to write my progam or script in another
text editor and excute it...with the command (python
filename..)...but Its dosn"t work...


can you help me?

thank you



___________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!? -- Pour dialoguer en direct avec vos amis, 
Yahoo! Messenger : http://fr.messenger.yahoo.com



From akuchlin at mems-exchange.org  Tue Jan 23 17:50:52 2001
From: akuchlin at mems-exchange.org (Andrew Kuchling)
Date: 23 Jan 2001 17:50:52 -0500
Subject: I mean *setup.py* ! ... (more questions)
References: <mailman.980287827.21944.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3dwvbl3msz.fsf@ute.cnri.reston.va.us>

"Steven D. Majewski" <sdm7g at virginia.edu> writes:
> If there no simple fix for that: what do we need to do to 
> get a lib/plat-Darwin1.2 directory with prebuilt files
> added to the distribution ?  ( I have all the files after
> a successful install. ) 

Probably just submit a patch on SourceForge with the files.

--amk


From quinn at ngwee.ugcs.caltech.edu  Sat Jan 27 00:56:23 2001
From: quinn at ngwee.ugcs.caltech.edu (Quinn Dunkan)
Date: 27 Jan 2001 05:56:23 GMT
Subject: Execute an external application from inside a python script
References: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0101261225110.6125-100000@arildh.pasta.cs.uit.no>
Message-ID: <slrn974oo7.cod.quinn@ngwee.ugcs.caltech.edu>

On Fri, 26 Jan 2001 12:26:44 +0100, Arild Hansen <arildh at stud.cs.uit.no> wrote:
>Hello,
>
>How do I execute an (executable) application from inside some python code,

See os.system(), os.fork(), or os.spawnv()

>and how do I terminate this application? All help greatly appreciated.

Under unix, os.kill().  Under windows, I dunno.  Poke about in the win32
module documentation.

Unix example with os.spawnv (python2 feature):

import os

pid = os.spawnv(os.P_NOWAIT, '/bin/sleep', ('sleep', '500'))
... stuff ...
# time to kill it:
os.kill(pid, signal.SIGTERM)
wpid, status = os.waitpid(pid, 0)
signal = status & 0xff
status = status >> 8
print '%d killed by signal %d with status %d' %(wpid, signal, status)


From fredrik at effbot.org  Wed Jan 17 17:42:14 2001
From: fredrik at effbot.org (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 22:42:14 GMT
Subject: Location of variables
References: <9456a4$8bi$1@pulp.srv.ualberta.ca>
Message-ID: <adp96.7333$AH6.1125482@newsc.telia.net>

Grzegorz Dostatni wrote:
> Is there a way in Python to find out the memory location of variables?
> Something like
>
> def s():
> pass
>
> print s
>
> will print the type and memory location of s.
> Is there something like that if s is just a simple variable?
> (int for example).
>
> I need it to help me debug a problem...

print type(s)
print id(s)

footnote: objects don't have addresses, they have identities.
the identity happens to be a memory address in CPython, but
that's an implementation detail.  more info here:

    http://effbot.org/guides/python-objects.htm

hope this helps!

Cheers /F




From andrew_dot_henshaw_at_earthling_dot_net  Sun Jan 14 13:58:32 2001
From: andrew_dot_henshaw_at_earthling_dot_net (Andrew Henshaw)
Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 13:58:32 -0500
Subject: Using re - side effects or misunderstanding
References: <t61f9nsrgdcj0f@corp.supernews.com> <87y9wel7fm.fsf@sune.interspace.dk>
Message-ID: <t63u17fa9tdf35@corp.supernews.com>

This is all part of my question about side effects.  As soon as I introduce
grouping, then the behavior of findall changes dramatically.  With findall,
using groups for grammatical purposes has the side-effect of dramatically
changing the return type.  I have a class that uses passed in re's. Internal
to the class, I'm using findall against those re's.  Because theuser may
want to use groups for grammatical purposes only (he doesn't care about what
it does to the findall command), then I have to program in a manner that
reduces performance.  I have to either apply string.join to all  return
values (which seems pretty extravagant when the return value is already a
string), or check the return type.  I was asking the question to see if I
was missing something, but apparently I wasn't.

Would not an acceptable solution be to define a new re compile flag that
indicates that grouping only serves a grammatical function?

AH


"Sune Kirkeby" <sune at interspace.dk> wrote in message
news:87y9wel7fm.fsf at sune.interspace.dk...
>
> [ "Andrew Henshaw" <andrew_dot_henshaw_at_earthling_dot_net> ]
> > But I thought that ?: is for matching but not returning.  And so it is,
> > under certain circumstances, e.g.
>
> It always is, and it always does.
>
> > if my pattern is
> >     '(ab)(c)xyz'
> > I get
> >     [('ab', 'c')]   (Yikes! a tuple. I'm going to have to change my code
a
> > bit to handle this)
> > but
> >     '(ab)(?:c)xyz'
> > yields,
> >     ['ab']
> > and
> >     '(?:ab)(?:c)xyz'
> > gives
> >     ['abcxyz']
>
> All of the above are what one would expect, since re.findall returns
> a list of matches, if there are no groups in the re.  But if there are
> groups it will _only_ return a list of tuples with the matched groups.
>
> Note that (?:...) is non-grouping, so in '(?:ab)(?:c)xyz' there are
> no groups, but in '(ab)(?:c)xyz' there is one group, which will then
> be returned.
>
> > so how do I get the result
> >     ['abxyz']
> > ??
>
> Something along the lines of,
>
> >>> r = re.compile('(ab)c(xyz)')
> >>> matches = r.findall('..abcxyz..')
> >>> matches
> [('ab', 'xyz')]
>
> almost there, just have to join the tuples,
>
> >>> map(lambda l: string.join(l, ''), matches)
> ['abxyz']
>
> Voila!
>
> > In other words, adding groups for the purpose of adding repetitions
seems to
> > have a greater side-effect than I would desire.  Is there something that
I'm
> > missing in my use of re's?
>
> Yes, you weren't using groups (all the time, anyway)  :-).
>
> first-posting-ly yrs'
>
> --
> Sune Kirkeby                    | "Imagine, if you will, that there were
no
> http://mel.interspace.dk/~sune/ | such thing as a hypothetical
situation..."




From ommadawn at club-internet.fr  Fri Jan  5 07:01:22 2001
From: ommadawn at club-internet.fr (Christophe Prevost)
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 12:01:22 -0000
Subject: MySQL with Windows
References: <yJd56.9184$KY1.25399@news1.rivrw1.nsw.optushome.com.au>
Message-ID: <9349hk$6in$1@reader1.imaginet.fr>

"deadmeat" <root@[127.0.0.1]> a ?crit dans le message news:
yJd56.9184$KY1.25399 at news1.rivrw1.nsw.optushome.com.au...
> Is there anywhere I can download pre-compiled MySQL modules with no
> dependencies? MySQLdb seems to need MSVC..

http://home.t-online.de/home/err666/




From m.faassen at vet.uu.nl  Wed Jan 10 22:17:03 2001
From: m.faassen at vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen)
Date: 11 Jan 2001 03:17:03 GMT
Subject: is Python fully object oriented ?
References: <20010110184830.13286.00000826@ng-fg1.aol.com> <93iuqb$rn9$1@panix3.panix.com> <mailman.979178411.3072.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <93j8jf$k3u$1@newshost.accu.uu.nl>

D-Man <dsh8290 at rit.edu> wrote:
> On Wed, Jan 10, 2001 at 04:30:03PM -0800, Aahz Maruch wrote:
> | In article <20010110184830.13286.00000826 at ng-fg1.aol.com>,
> | Crutoy <crutoy at aol.com> wrote:
> | >
> | >Hi , i haven't used Python but i do have experience in other languages vb ,
> | >java , c++ . Is Python a fully object oriented ? Thanks
> | 
> | Python is fully object oriented if you consider Java and C++ to be fully
> | object oriented.  If you don't consider those two fully object oriented,
> | you may not consider Python to be fully object oriented.

> Python also support free-standing functions, similar to C++.

But those functions are objects too. :)

Anyway, there's no problem with doing object oriented programming in Python,
and it's in fact more fun and easier than doing the same in Java and C++,
by many reports (I can testify personally for the comparison with C++).

And as said by the previous poster, Python works fine with a procedural or
mixed style of programming as well.

Regards,

Martijn
-- 
History of the 20th Century: WW1, WW2, WW3?
No, WWW -- Could we be going in the right direction?


From glinds at acxiom.com  Mon Jan 15 15:17:46 2001
From: glinds at acxiom.com (glinds - Greg Lindstrom)
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 14:17:46 -0600
Subject: Relational Databases and Python
Message-ID: <ABEE81BE08ADD311B6A1009027DE908D04EFB843@conmsx03.conway.acxiom.com>

Greetings-

I am wanting to access a relational database via Python.  Knowing that a
"simple" query such as "Why no "do until" statement" can generate replies
for months, I offer the following:

*	What relational database to use?  I am constructing a routine to
track incident reports for the volunteer fire department I run with.  I also
want to track personnel information, training records, equipment, etc.  It
will be a small to medium database (the databases I work with professionally
run in the terabytes, but we spend millions on software).  I am looking at
MySQL.  Whatever base I use must be free.
*	How to access the database?  I would like to use SQL via ODBC.  I
have attempted to install the mxODBC module, but have run into trouble with
the first step (get and install mxDateTime).  That's not a good sign.  I
would like a simple communication to the  database (else I will write a "C"
routine to do it for me!).  What's out there?
*	With an eye to the future, I would like to write a Web-based system
so that I can offer this system to other volunteer departments in the
county.  We simply cannot afford $2500+ for reporting software (that will
fully outfit 2 firefighters including SCBA (breathing equipment) and PASS (a
safety device)).  Though I have talked with a couple of companies offering a
"volunteer rate", we simply cannot afford to spend that kind of money on
software.  How do I get started writing web apps?  I have good friends at
work telling me that Perl is the way to go; I program both, but am partial
to Python.

Thanks to any and all offering suggestions.

Greg Lindstrom, FF/FR
Vilonia Volunteer Fire Department
Vilonia, Arkansas (that's 30 miles North of Little Rock)




From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Wed Jan 10 06:28:58 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 12:28:58 +0100
Subject: help / examples reading floats / doubles, user definded objs
References: <93aomd$7nd@dispatch.concentric.net> <93crei019hm@news1.newsguy.com> <93g594$ia8@dispatch.concentric.net>
Message-ID: <93hh43014s9@news2.newsguy.com>

"Bryan Webb" <bww00 at amdahl.com> wrote in message
news:93g594$ia8 at dispatch.concentric.net...
> Alex,
>     Sorry for the vagueness. I'm red headed, we tend to have lapses.

Hey, np - though my hair is brown (with some gray these days), if I
had a penny for each time _I_'ve been vague, I'd be pretty rich:-).


> I want to read the floats/doubles from a binary file that was written from
c
> or python.

Great!  Do note that this is hard to do *cross-platform*, i.e., if the
files need to be written on any platform and read back on any other one.
But, within a single platform, your life is a bit simpler.


>  I have used the array builtin to write the data out to a binary file.

In this case, the fromfile method of array objects should serve you
just as well to read them back in -- just be sure to open the file
as 'binary' if you need this to work on such platforms as Windows.

E.g., here's a Python script that writes some floats with array:

import array

ar = array.array('f', range(6))
ar.tofile(open("foo.dat","wb"))

and here's one that reads them back and prints them:

import array

ar = array.array('f')
try:
    ar.fromfile(open("foo.dat","rb"), 999)
except EOFError: pass

for x in ar:
    print x

Note that I assume we don't know exactly how many items we
have to read, just "no more than 999" -- which is why I
need to catch EOFError explicitly: that's what .fromfile
raises (after correctly inserting what data it finds) to
let us know it has not found quite as many items as were
specified it should read.

Running these two scripts one after the other will emit
something like
0.0
1.0
2.0
3.0
4.0
5.0
to ensure us that all is working fine:-).


> I found the struct builtin module and am toying around with it... with
some
> success.
> I'll work at it some more and repost my question if i need some other
help.

struct is great, but you may not need it if what you want
to read is a file (or big stretch of it: also check out
the fromstring method) containing nothing but an array of
binary-written floats (or doubles); the array module is
then likely to prove simpler for the purpose.


Alex





From gotcha at swing.be  Wed Jan 17 05:01:57 2001
From: gotcha at swing.be (gotcha at swing.be)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 10:01:57 GMT
Subject: cross platform file lock
Message-ID: <943qij$had$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

This is a newbie question...

But after browsing Python Library reference,
Python FAQ, and comp.lang.python, I have not been
able to determine if there is a cross platform
file locking mechanism available for Python.

any help appreciated

Thanks

Godefroid Chapelle
BubbleNet sprl
Louvain-la-Neuve Belgium


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From tim.one at home.com  Thu Jan  4 22:28:34 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 22:28:34 -0500
Subject: Migrating to perl?
In-Reply-To: <3Fa56.4580$of7.216286@news1.atl>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCAENDIGAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Joel Ricker]
> I'm thinking of moving from perl to python and I was looking for
> opinions on the difference.

Don't bother <wink>.  Seriously, download Python, install it, and work your
way through the tutorial that comes with it.  In no more than a few hours
you'll know for certain whether Python is for you!  Much more efficient than
guessing whether the replies you get here are lying <wink>.

> ...
> So basically what I'd like to know is, how do the two compare?

Python's motto is "there's only one way to do it" -- they're polar extremes
in some ways.  Python is very uniform in its syntax and semantics (compared
to Perl, not compared to e.g. Scheme).  That can make it wordier than Perl,
and, in some cases, slower (for example, regular expressions are just
another module in Python -- the language proper knows nothing at all about
them, so can't special-case the snot out of them).  On the other hand, the
uniformity and makes it much easier to read other peoples' code, and that
includes your own.

> Is there an easier learning curve with Python?

Absolutely -- try the tutorial and judge for yourself.

> Are the modules and add-ons as good as perl (ie, Database --
> I'm primarily interested in MySQL, CGI, Graphics).

I haven't done any of that stuff in Python; must leave for someone else.

> What about OOP?  Is it it a full OO language?  Is it easier than
> to use than perl?  Perl OO just feels like it has been cludged
> together.

A simple example should make this clear immediately (cut from an interactive
Python shell session):

>>> # Make a class with a method
>>> class C:
        def amethod(self, anargument):
            return anargument + 1

>>> # Subclass it
>>> class D(C):
        def anewmethod(self, anargument):
            return anargument + 2

>>> # Instantiate an instance
>>> d = D()
>>> # Invoke methods
>>> d.amethod(42)
43
>>> d.anewmethod(42)
44
>>>

You even get to name your arguments in Python, just like in a real language
<wink>.

> And lastly, what about the Python community?  Is it friendlier
> than the perl community?  Too many times I've asked questions and
> all I'll get is pointers to documentation, which I've already
> read and so thats why I'm asking for information in the first
> place.  I understand simple questions for basic or novice
> information will warrant answers like that but not the things I've
> asked.

The day I was proudest of comp.lang.python was a day last year when, at a
very busy time, someone posted the question "what's a text editor?".
Amazingly, they got several gentle introductions to the topic.

That doesn't mean we're not vicious, though:  just try suggesting that
Python should add curly braces <0.9 wink>.

you-also-have-to-put-with-<wink>s-and-stupid-signoff-
    lines-here-ly y'rs  - tim




From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Thu Jan  4 06:43:38 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 12:43:38 +0100
Subject: CGIHTTPServer.py
References: <7F5BC4310EDD615A.1D87832E39807480.8066D4EF5FF33D4C@lp.airnews.net>
Message-ID: <931nn102kjt@news2.newsguy.com>

"alan runyan" <runyaga at thisbox.com> wrote in message
news:7F5BC4310EDD615A.1D87832E39807480.8066D4EF5FF33D4C at lp.airnews.net...
> I'm playing around CGIHTTPServer.py and have some problems that I can seem
> to fix.  any help would be greatly appreciated.
>
> in the Library Reference it shows its availability as Unix only, why not
> Windows?  it seems to work just fine on Windows.

A bug in the docs, I think; it didn't USE to work on Windows, as of
Python 1.5.2 (it used fork, making it unix-only) -- its applicability
has been enhanced in 2.0, but the docs may not reflect that yet.

The docstring in the Python sources is very clear, though:
'''
If the os.fork() function is not present (e.g. on Windows),
os.popen2() is used as a fallback, with slightly altered semantics; if
that function is not present either (e.g. on Macintosh), only Python
scripts are supported, and they are executed by the current process.
'''


> GET appears to work just fine on both unix and win32.  (this is a
> SimpleHTTPServer, not CGIHTTPServer's job)

Why not?  GET can perfectly well reach a CGI, not just a simple
page.  Form-parameters get appended to the URL in the ?name=value
syntax, in GET's case.

Simple test: make a cgi-bin directory and copy cgi.py into it.
Now, run cgihttpserver.py from the directory just above it. Now
from your browser visit url http://localhost:8000/cgi-bin/cgi.py?foo=bar:
it should return a large 'page' with all sorts of info, including
Form Contents:
foo: <type 'instance'>
MiniFieldStorage('foo', 'bar')
and work uniformly across all platforms.  OK so far?

Now, build a very simple correct HTML file for this cgi, e.g.:

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//IETF//DTD HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD><TITLE>CGI POST test</TITLE></HEAD>
<BODY>
<FORM ACTION="http://localhost:8000/cgi-bin/cgi.py"
      METHOD="POST" ENCTYPE="application/x-www-form-urlencoded">
<INPUT TYPE="text" NAME="command" SIZE=80>
<INPUT TYPE="submit" NAME=".submit">
</FORM>
</BODY>
</HTML>

visit it with your browser, enter some text, clic on 'submit'.
You should again receive the same page as above, except of
course the 'form contents' will be a bit different.

This works just fine for me on Windows NT 4 with IE 5.5.  Can
you reproduce your observed problems with this very simple test?


Alex






From Bill.Scherer at VerizonWireless.com  Tue Jan  2 18:12:43 2001
From: Bill.Scherer at VerizonWireless.com (Bill Scherer)
Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2001 18:12:43 -0500
Subject: HTTPServer, performance
References: <mailman.977951836.8921.python-list@python.org> <0_s46.921678$8u4.18404294@news1.rdc1.bc.home.com>
Message-ID: <3A52606A.D98C4AE4@VerizonWireless.com>

Actually, I recently found the problem.  It turns out that when creating
a multithreaded httpserver as I outlined, you get a deadlock in
BaseHTTPServer.BaseHTTPRequestHandler.log_request.  Overriding this
method in my handler with:

def log_request:
    pass

eliminates the lockups.  Eventually I'll write a log method using a
queue and use another thread to handle the queue.

Bill

Dethe Elza wrote:
> 
> Sounds like garbage collection behavior, at least in Java-land.
> 
> There are lots of lightweight web servers out there, in Java and in Python.
> Might want
> to check out the code in one (or more) of those...
> 
> --Dethe
> 
> "Bill Scherer" <Bill.Scherer at VerizonWireless.com> wrote in message
> news:mailman.977951836.8921.python-list at python.org...
> > Hello eveyone, hope you had a nice holiday...
> >
> > Question: Is the code below the proper way to create a multi-threaded
> > http server in Python, and what kind of performance should one expect
> > out of it?
> >
> > The code below works.  It's an extremely stripped down verison of my
> > current project which really runs under J(p)ython. I was unsatisfied
> > with performance, so I stripped out all that wasn't web server and tried
> > it under CPython and JPython.
> >
> > With the code below, CPython does about 12 tps on a dual 733 Mhz machine
> > under RedHat 6.2. JPython is only slightly slower (when using a JVM that
> > uses native threads and therefore both processors).  Apache on the same
> > box does over 70 tps with a greater number of simulated users (100 vs
> > 25).
> >
> > One thing I do see with both CPython and JPython running this code is
> > random stalling.  ie. The server will be happily serving requests, then
> > for no apparent reason, it justs stops.  CPU load drops during the
> > stall, although it never gets very high. Two, maybe three, seconds
> > later, it resumes serving.  Pings during this time show no change to
> > network latency (0.4ms).
> >
> > Any and all help is appreciated.
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ------
> >
> > import SocketServer, BaseHTTPServer
> >
> > PORT = 9777
> >
> > class HTTPServer(SocketServer.ThreadingMixIn,
> > BaseHTTPServer.HTTPServer):
> >     pass
> >
> > class RequestHandler(BaseHTTPServer.BaseHTTPRequestHandler):
> >     def do_GET(self):
> >         self.send_response(200)
> >         self.send_header("Content-type", 'text/plain')
> >         self.end_headers()
> >         self.wfile.write('hello world')
> >         return
> >
> > if __name__ == '__main__':
> >     httpd = HTTPServer(('', PORT), RequestHandler)
> >     print 'serving on port', PORT
> >     httpd.serve_forever()
> >
> >
> > --
> > William K. Scherer
> > Sr. Member of Applications Staff - Verizon Wireless
> > Bill.Scherer_at_VerizonWireless.com
> >
> 
> --
> http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

-- 
William K. Scherer
Sr. Member of Applications Staff - Verizon Wireless
Bill.Scherer_at_VerizonWireless.com



From emile at fenx.com  Mon Jan 15 07:50:12 2001
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 04:50:12 -0800
Subject: converting an id() into an object
References: <93uppg$bm4b8$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <93urmp$bifje$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>

Ok, it's early still.  Forget this question, maybe.

Would this be different from simply:

poof = spam

off-to-a-bad-start-ly y'rs

--

Emile van Sebille
emile at fenx.com
-------------------


"Emile van Sebille" <emile at fenx.com> wrote in message
news:93uppg$bm4b8$1 at ID-11957.news.dfncis.de...
> Is there a way to inverse the functionality of id()?  This
> of course depends on items not moving around in memory and
> not being decref'd into gc.
>
> eg:
>
> foo = id(spam)
> ...
> ...
> poof = swizzled(foo)
>
> spam is poof    # this would be true?
>
>
> I don't have an immediate need for this, but the thought
has
> crossed my mind often enough that if it were available, I
> may have done something with it.
>
>
> --
>
> Emile van Sebille
> emile at fenx.com
> -------------------
>
>
>
>




From sheila at thinkspot.net  Wed Jan 10 16:46:44 2001
From: sheila at thinkspot.net (Sheila King)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 21:46:44 GMT
Subject: Running cgi-scripts on my home Apache server
References: <j92o5t4gde98rlaca47mdglnsdc7uruo3c@4ax.com> <3A5CC786.4B3C53B8@bigfoot.de>
Message-ID: <n0mp5to3pnnnremrtit6ckragq9mabrti0@4ax.com>

Thanks SOOO much! This worked perfectly.

(Of course it is simple, when you already know how!)
   :D

--
Sheila King
http://www.thinkspot.net/sheila/
http://www.k12groups.org/


On Wed, 10 Jan 2001 21:35:18 +0100, Gerhard H?ring <gerhard.nospam at bigfoot.de>
wrote in comp.lang.python in article <3A5CC786.4B3C53B8 at bigfoot.de>:

:Yes, it's actually quite simple:
:
:1) Add the following line at the end of {Path of Apache}\conf\httpd.conf
:
:ScriptInterpreterSource Registry
:
:2) give your CGI scripts the extension .py (the Python installer should
:have registered .py, .pyc, .pyo to be handled by python.exe), as in this
:script:
:
:file test.py in cgi-bin:
:########################
:#!/usr/bin/env python
:
:print 'Content-type: text/html\n\nhello!'



From cfelling at iae.nl  Thu Jan 25 15:43:40 2001
From: cfelling at iae.nl (Carel Fellinger)
Date: 25 Jan 2001 21:43:40 +0100
Subject: Markov.py
References: <94eavq$5cl$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <94eulk$dduhj$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de> <3A6B7716.68A62115@home.com> <94h5he$9kl$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <94ides$6t2$1@animus.fel.iae.nl> <94jrt701eg4@news1.newsguy.com> <94l59e$4kc$1@animus.fel.iae.nl> <94mbet01ruh@news2.newsguy.com> <94n920$e66$1@animus.fel.iae.nl> <94p6i40244j@news2.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <94q35s$6bn$1@animus.fel.iae.nl>

Alex Martelli <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote:
> "Carel Fellinger" <cfelling at iae.nl> wrote in message
> news:94n920$e66$1 at animus.fel.iae.nl...
>     [snip]
>> Impressive! (I take it it did single words only, and I guess it needed
>> training to get a good profil of the speaker, but still impressive)

> Real-time speech but not continuous one (short-as-you-wish,
> but mandatory, pause between words -- we called it 'dictation'
> speech), and 15-minutes training needed per speaker; took a
> dedicated IBM mainframe with a few CPU's and 'vector features',
> or equivalent (3rd party vector-processing units for the same
> class of mainframe).  It _was_ 1985 before 'we' (actually
> some brilliant HW guys in IBM Research) turned out special-

Ah that project (mid 80-s IBM Research), it's claims *stunned* us at
the time!

> purpose boards that you could stuff inside an IBM PC/AT to
> make it perform the same task (maybe even early '86 before
> the latter box was reliable enough to announce & demo) --
> what we contributed to the miniaturization effort was a
> study of numeric sensitivity, to turn the computations into
> fixed-point ones at various minimal-sufficient precisions
> along the algorithms' paths.


>> But if I remember correctly, the use of frequency analysis to
>> recognize spoken words was not what was criticised at all. We (the

> You don't (remember correctly) -- being the target of such
> criticisms sharpens one's memories:-).  I remember silencing

Well I should have spoken only for our project then:), and within
Philips Research there were some clever man working on continous
speech recognition using stochastic models too, so we were perfectly
aware of the feasability of the approach.  But still we thought that
some decent grammar might be usefull for the weeding of ambiguities:)

> for occasional [and inadvertent] lack-of-pause between two
> adjacent words... which occasionally made HER go wrong, too!).

striking similarity, makes me wonder: your father build a bot before?

>> members of the Rosetta team) felt a bit awkward by the claim that
>> stochastic models were better suited to attach meaning to (written)
>> natural language and even to weed ambigueties.  Grammars, on the other
>> hand, are soo crisp and clear, hence easy to understand:) Probably had

> Right -- and therefore insufficient to model what human beings
> actually DO with language:-).

yep, and we were painfully aware of that, we refrained from even
beginning to try to translate novels, let alone poetry.  And then that
dreadfull `context' in which an utterance had to be interpreted, no
way to model *that* in sufficient detail (or actually: at all), so we
left it out:)


-- 
groetjes, carel


From tdelaney at avaya.com  Sun Jan 28 20:32:09 2001
From: tdelaney at avaya.com (Delaney, Timothy)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 12:32:09 +1100
Subject: xor operator?
Message-ID: <B43D149A9AB2D411971300B0D03D7E8B0FBE2F@natasha.auslabs.avaya.com>

Well, we went over this a little while ago ...

To a large extent, != is the boolean XOR. There is however 1 caveat ...

not(a) != not (b)

is the boolean XOR ... ;)

Tim Delaney
Avaya Australia
+61 2 9352 9079

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Def P [mailto:def-p at usa.net]
> Sent: Friday, 26 January 2001 11:52 PM
> To: python-list at python.org
> Subject: xor operator?
> 
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I notice that there doesn't seem to be a boolean xor operator 
> in Python. Does
> someone know the reasons behind this? 
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Def P
> 
> ____________________________________________________________________
> Get free email and a permanent address at 
> http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1
> 
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 



From amritansh at mobilian.com  Wed Jan 31 19:30:06 2001
From: amritansh at mobilian.com (Amritansh Raghav)
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 16:30:06 -0800
Subject: overloading ==
Message-ID: <t7hbgnlmu55l42@corp.supernews.com>

can it be done?
i looked at the operator documentation under Python Runtime Services - but
didnt find anything to suggest it could be done.




From sandj.williams at gte.net  Sun Jan  7 17:03:30 2001
From: sandj.williams at gte.net (Steve Williams)
Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2001 22:03:30 GMT
Subject: boolean xor
References: <93ace8$nmo$1@panix3.panix.com>
Message-ID: <3A58E8F7.83DA8D35@gte.net>

Aahz Maruch wrote:

> I need a boolean (not bit-wise) xor function.  I've got the following
> function, but my logic skills are rusty enough that I'm wondering if
> this is the "right" way to do it (I've validated that it produces the
> correct outputs, at least):
>
> def xor(a,b):
>     return not ( (a and b) or (not (a or b)) )
> --
>                       --- Aahz (Copyright 2001 by aahz at pobox.com)
>
> Androgynous poly kinky vanilla queer het    <*>     http://www.rahul.net/aahz/
> Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6
>
> "This is Usenet.  We're all masturbating in public places."  -DH

(A or B) and not (A and B) has fewer knots.  DeMorgans Law.



From vesemir at pro1.promail.pl  Fri Jan 12 15:07:59 2001
From: vesemir at pro1.promail.pl (Vesemir)
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 21:07:59 +0100
Subject: changing unix password via www python script
Message-ID: <93no1v$svv$1@sunsite.icm.edu.pl>

Hello!
How to change unix account password by python script?
I want to write www script, controled by form.

Yours
QdlatY
qdlaty at wielun.dhs.org




From donn at oz.net  Sat Jan 27 21:55:56 2001
From: donn at oz.net (Donn Cave)
Date: 28 Jan 2001 02:55:56 GMT
Subject: Avoiding the __repr__ call or protecting an instance from evaluation  URG. please
References: <db367t8ed4ktadbdmf71lgk1t8h3p3i4lk@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <9501ns$jf7$0@216.39.151.169>

Quoth Fernando Rodrguez <spamers at must.die>:
| 	I have a class whose __repr__ method returns a string. Whenever I pass
| an instance of this class to a function, what the function gets is the result
| of __repr__. Most of the time this is OK, but under certain circumstances I
| also need to make sure that a function receives an instance of the class, and
| the the string that __repr__ returns.

Somewhere in this, you have been deceived.  Python doesn't do that
kind of thing, converting function arguments like C++, and whatever
you pass to a function should arrive intact.

It's hard to say what has been happening to confuse the issue.
Note that if you "print" a sequence, repr will be used to render
its contents.

	Donn Cave, donn at oz.net


From tebeka at lycosmail.com  Wed Jan 31 07:44:21 2001
From: tebeka at lycosmail.com (Miki Tebeka)
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 14:44:21 +0200
Subject: Time limited threads?
Message-ID: <9591b8$2if@news.or.intel.com>

Hello All,

Is there a way I can limit a threads execution time? (and then resume it
later?)

Background:
We're giving an exercise in scheduling.
I'd like to give the students a service that runs one thread for a given
time quota.
Then they will write the scheduler.

Thanks
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
Smile, damn it, smile.

lambda msg: {
 'name' : 'Miki Tebeka',
 'email' : 'tebeka at lycosmail.com',
 'homepage' : 'www.tebeka.freeservers.com',
 'quote' : "I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it."
}[msg]





From slhath at flash.net  Thu Jan 18 10:37:25 2001
From: slhath at flash.net (scott hathaway)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 15:37:25 GMT
Subject: what happens when cookies get too big?
References: <mailman.979830522.31537.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <V4E96.8734$J%.858334@news.flash.net>

When IE 4 and above encounter a cookie that is too large, it tosses all
cookies for that site!

Scott


"Skip Montanaro" <skip at mojam.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.979830522.31537.python-list at python.org...
>
> This isn't really a Python question, but since I'm using Python to
implement
> things, I figured perhaps I could sneak this in.
>
> What happens when cookies get too big?  Do browsers tend to barf, toss out
> the cookie, truncate it, or something else I've not anticipated?  RFC 2109
> says oversize cookies (double-stuff?) must be discarded, but I wonder if
all
> browsers adhere to that requirement.  I'm storing a cookie that represents
a
> list of names.  It's zlib compressed and base64 encoded, so I can store
> quite a few names.
>
> Thanks,
>
> --
> Skip Montanaro (skip at mojam.com)
> Support the Mojam.com Affiliates Program: http://www.mojam.com/affl/
> (847)971-7098
>




From clgonsal at keeshah.penguinpowered.com  Tue Jan  2 01:36:40 2001
From: clgonsal at keeshah.penguinpowered.com (C.Laurence Gonsalves)
Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2001 06:36:40 GMT
Subject: Simulating WWW button press
References: <Xns901CE2154Latzikatz@139.174.2.56> <mailman.978398162.28694.python-list@python.org> <Xns901D1B3B2Latzikatz@139.174.2.56>
Message-ID: <slrn952u1s.adf.clgonsal@keeshah.penguinpowered.com>

On 2 Jan 2001 01:49:15 GMT, Lutz Schroeer
<Lutz.Schroeer at tu-clausthal.de> wrote:
>
>Well, maybe this snippet of the (very unreadable) source is large
>enough.
>
><form ACTION="/dyx-pv/onepagebatch/lV21.zip" ENCTYPE=x-www-form-encoded
>METHOD=POST>
>
><INPUT NAME="zipallpage" TYPE="submit" VALUE="Get all files"> </form>
>
>I tried and read some more stuff and ended at the example 11.3.2 in the
>Library reference (1.5.2). Unfortunately my own version of this code
>doesn't work (it stucks after the getfile() ). 
>
>Is my suggestion right that the base address for the submission is the
>same as the page's base address if the code defines nothing different? 
>
>Additionally I came to the conclusion that I seem to have to send a
>Content-Length header entry (the server replied me an error 411) but
>have no idea about the value.
>
>To make it totally complicated the form is on a password protected
>page.  So how do I send my username and passwd to the server? 


You'll want to include an "Authorization:" line in your HTTP headers.
eg:

Authorization: Basic dXNlcmlkOnBhc3N3b3Jk

The junk after "Basic" is the userid and password encoded in base64. You
can generate this by doing something like:

    import string, base64

    # need to use strip, because base64.encodestring adds a trailing
    # '\r' that we don't want
    auth = string.strip(base64.encodestring(userid+':'+password))
    

Incidently, you might want to test if this server works with HTTP GET
requests. If you aren't sending many parameters to it (and from the
looks of the HTML above, you aren't), there isn't really any point in
using POST, unless the server requires it. Most CGI programs don't
actually care which way they get the parameters.

-- 
  C. Laurence Gonsalves                "Any sufficiently advanced
  clgonsal at kami.com                     technology is indistinguishable
  http://cryogen.com/clgonsal/          from magic." -- Arthur C. Clarke


From tony at lsl.co.uk  Fri Jan 26 08:24:32 2001
From: tony at lsl.co.uk (Tony J Ibbs (Tibs))
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 13:24:32 -0000
Subject: python-2.1 function attributes
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10101261235290.16664-100000@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <004b01c0879b$51be71d0$f05aa8c0@lslp7o.int.lsl.co.uk>

Michael Hudson wrote:
> How about "having"?
>
> def func(param) having (publish=1, secure=0):
>     """ docco """
>     print "bobbins"
>
> to emphasize the attribute-ness one could use a dot prefix:
>
> def func(param) having (.publish=1, .secure=0):
>     """ docco """
>     print "bobbins"
>
> I think I like this (though I'm not sure about the dot
> prefix).  I might see if I can whip up a patch...

Yes, "having" is better than "with". That's neat. And it doesn't have
any obvious other meaning for me. (the important thing was probably
getting away from "with" - once that's done, if people really don't like
"having", suggesting new words is simple enough, at leisure)

I'm not sure about the dot prefix either - it makes them obviously odd,
but feels sort-of unPythonic. I think I prefer without.

Tibs

--
Tony J Ibbs (Tibs)      http://www.tibsnjoan.co.uk/
"How fleeting are all human passions compared with the massive
continuity of ducks." - Dorothy L. Sayers, "Gaudy Night"
My views! Mine! Mine! (Unless Laser-Scan ask nicely to borrow them.)




From bram at sara.nl  Wed Jan  3 04:17:32 2001
From: bram at sara.nl (Bram Stolk)
Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 10:17:32 +0100
Subject: using 'global' across source files.
References: <3A51E6B7.82FFE8F4@sara.nl> <92sqc8$nm9$1@news.wrc.xerox.com>
Message-ID: <3A52EE2C.32432EF5@sara.nl>

Mark Jackson wrote:
> 
> Bram Stolk <bram at sara.nl> writes:
> > According to the manuals, it should simply be in the namespace
> > '__main__', but that doesnt work either.
> 
> You're misreading the manuals.  Can you tell us how you drew this
> conclusion?  (Possibly the manuals could be clearer.)

Well, because in execframes.html, it can be read that:
"The main module for a script is always called __main__"

And because I can do:
dir(__builtins__)

I thought, why the heck doesn't dir(__main__) work?
I also tried dir(__mains__), dir(main), etc.

Now I know, (thx Remco) that I first have to map the string 
__main__ to a module using sys.
This could be in the ref manual. I think it is not in
there currently.


Also, I had no idea that using a 'global val' cmd, creates 
another copy of val, which I deduct from your comment:
"But the val that change_val changes is defined in funcs.py, 
NOT prog.py"

I thought that python's 'global' acted like C's 'extern' cmd,
meaning, that 'global val' does NOT define/create 'val',
only refers to a val that exists somewhere else.

I don't know wether me thinking this is due to my poor
understanding, or the quality of the manuals, though.


Anyway, to clear things up: what I wanted to achieve is
pretty straightforward: I can use "global vars" that
reside outside a func body, but in the same module.
I wanted one step further: use "even more global vars"
that reside outside a func body, and even outside the
current module (read: sourcefile).

I can achieve this now, with the sys lookup of __main__.
(Provided ofcourse that __main__ is the module that
 holds the req'd variable).

I thought that the subject line that I had chosen
"using 'global' across source files" summed up my
problem pretty accurate. But appearantly it did not ;-)



   Bram


> 
> --
> Mark Jackson - http://www.alumni.caltech.edu/~mjackson
>         The power of accurate observation is frequently called
>         cynicism by those who don't have it.
>                         - George Bernard Shaw

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Bram Stolk, VR Specialist.
 SARA Academic Computing Services Amsterdam, PO Box 94613, 1090 GP  AMSTERDAM
 email: bram at sara.nl   Phone +31-20-5923059  Fax +31-20-6683167

 "I heard if you play the NT-4.0-CD backwards, you get a satanic message."
 "Thats nothing, if you play it forward, it installs NT-4.0"
------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From abc at 21cn.com  Mon Jan 22 02:01:07 2001
From: abc at 21cn.com (ccc)
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 07:01:07 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: test
Message-ID: <94glrj$4l7$344@mail.cn99.com>

An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20010122/96d48ca4/attachment.html>

From phd at phd.pp.ru  Mon Jan 22 13:37:21 2001
From: phd at phd.pp.ru (Oleg Broytmann)
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 21:37:21 +0300 (MSK)
Subject: .cgi or .cgp or .py or ?
In-Reply-To: <3A6C77B5.25B7DA13@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0101222134450.6122-100000@fep132.fep.ru>

On Mon, 22 Jan 2001, haaserd wrote:
> There isn't any advice in cgi.py.  What is the recommended
> naming convention?

   Always use .py as the extension. Thus you always remember what is it,
any python newbe will easily recognize it, and (what is much more
important) - this is visible on the web. This way you promote The One And
The Only True Programming Language.
   (I am a bit exagerating here, but really not too much. Promoting Python
is very important in the world full of other damn P* languages :)

Oleg.
----
     Oleg Broytmann            http://phd.pp.ru/            phd at phd.pp.ru
           Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN.




From sholden at holdenweb.com  Sat Jan 20 12:57:53 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 12:57:53 -0500
Subject: PSU uses emacs?
References: <948e4b$hm0$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <948fvj$oq1$1@panix6.panix.com> <3A67CDC3.7EACB07D@Lugoj.Com> <9490t009on@news2.newsguy.com> <3a685ef2.3403798@reading.news.pipex.net> <949rii0a76@news1.newsguy.com> <mailman.979929746.2047.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <zoka6.19675$Mo6.204420@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>

"D-Man" <dsh8290 at rit.edu> wrote in message
news:mailman.979929746.2047.python-list at python.org...
> On Fri, Jan 19, 2001 at 05:55:45PM +0100, Alex Martelli wrote:
> |
[ ... ]
> | (shame's about to engulf me...).  I like :set expandtab always
> | on -- no tab/space confusion; I also like :set ff unix, so that my
> | scripts can be shared between Win and Unix machines (and why
> | waste one byte per line to tell a 'carriage' that is not there
> | to 'return' [to where?]...?!-).
>
> Exactly.  DOS/Windows never did operate from a teletype did it?  I
> suppose no one will ever figure out why a system that began on the
> teletype (Unix) doesn't use the extra character and a system that
> didn't (DOS/Windows) does.
>
My guess is that the Unix implementors realised that whether to include a CR
was a decision correctly left to the appropriate device driver. Whereas the
implementors of DOS didn't really understand such refinements, and decided
to put the CR in files so that any device could handle the output.

This is speculation, based on the philosophical attitudes I have observed in
the two groups concerned. 8^} Who designed DOS anyway, Gary Kildall wasn't
it?

regards
 Steve




From tony at lsl.co.uk  Fri Jan 26 06:00:32 2001
From: tony at lsl.co.uk (Tony J Ibbs (Tibs))
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 11:00:32 -0000
Subject: python-2.1 function attributes
In-Reply-To: <m33de7z7dn.fsf@atrus.jesus.cam.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <004701c08787$33ae0070$f05aa8c0@lslp7o.int.lsl.co.uk>

Michael Hudson wrote:
> Ooh, I've come up with a strawman!

I'm ignoring his first option, since I think the double indent will doom
it, regardless of other considerations, and the variant is more
interesting:

> def f(a, b, c) with publish = 1; secure = 0:
>     print "bobbins"
>
> Then you use backslashes when the attribute or argument list get long.
>
> def f(long_name, even_longer_name, still_longer_name) \
>         with publish = 1; secure = 0
>              grammar = f_grammar:
>     print "bobbins"
>
> Thoughts?

My first thought is that the examples need to have doc strings to make
it a bit more obvious how they work in practice. Also, I think it needs
a ";" after "secure=0" to be "consistent".

Of course, we already have ways in Python to allow continuation over
lines and indenting for a list of items - and I'd have said the obvious
one to use here *was* the dictionary specification, which takes us back
to:

 def f(long_name, even_longer_name, still_longer_name) \
         with {publish : 1, secure : 0,
               grammar : f_grammar}:
     """and here is the doc string."""
     print "bobbins"

But a better result might be to use a compromise, of sorts, and
"tupleise" it, with syntax similar to an argument list:

 def f(long_name, even_longer_name, still_longer_name) with \
         (publish=1, secure=0, grammar=f_grammar):
     """and here is the doc string."""
     print "bobbins"

- this allows the user to "forget" it's a dictionary, and doesn't
require that (slightly) awkward mixing of () and {} in the same
statement. In fact this is my favourite so far. And it's close to
current Python layout rules, which must be a Good Thing.

I'm still a little concerned about the use of "with" as the keyword,
though, since it has precedent for uses where the value being defined is
a "local" constant - but on the other hand I can't think of a better
word at the moment.




From syver at NOSPAMcyberwatcher.com  Fri Jan 19 19:53:18 2001
From: syver at NOSPAMcyberwatcher.com (Syver Enstad)
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 01:53:18 +0100
Subject: Python COM and DCOM.
References: <3RV96.10957$wt2.125028@news1.oke.nextra.no> <949ion0v1@news1.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <94anmj$98f$1@troll.powertech.no>

Alex wrote:
> If you register a COM object as having different servers (in-process,
> local aka out-of-process, remote), the fastest one of these will
> always be used by 'default instance creation methods' in all
> languages.  You will need to de-register the 'faster' (in-process,
> local) servers if you want 'slower' servers to be used for such
> default creation.
I've deregistered the inproc server option, registered the python com class
with _reg_clsctx_ = pythoncom.CLSCTX_LOCAL_SERVER as a class variable


> Or else (not available from all languages) you can explicitly ask
> for the kind of server you want by passing appropriate values from
> the CLSCTX enumeration:
>
> typedef enum tagCLSCTX
> {
>     CLSCTX_INPROC_SERVER    = 1,
>     CLSCTX_INPROC_HANDLER   = 2,
>     CLSCTX_LOCAL_SERVER     = 4,
>     CLSCTX_REMOTE_SERVER    = 16,
>     CLSCTX_NO_CODE_DOWNLOAD = 400,
>     CLSCTX_NO_FAILURE_LOG = 4000
> } CLSCTX;
> #define CLSCTX_SERVER    (CLSCTX_INPROC_SERVER | CLSCTX_LOCAL_SERVER |
> CLSCTX_REMOTE_SERVER)
> #define CLSCTX_ALL       (CLSCTX_INPROC_HANDLER | CLSCTX_SERVER)

Yes, I know. This seems to work okay. The problem is when you already have
compiled code (that uses default instance creation methods) or ASP that as
far as I've seen from the docs doesn't support CLSCTX specification.




From python at mattrussell.plus.com  Fri Jan  5 19:58:41 2001
From: python at mattrussell.plus.com (python at mattrussell.plus.com)
Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2001 00:58:41 GMT
Subject: ssl
Message-ID: <935qju$j8d$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

Hi,

has anyone implemented any ssl connections in python?
I am trying to get it to work on a win2k box (yuk).

I understand that the unix implementation uses openSSL||SSLeay
libraries.

Does win *have* use the same?

More importantly, in python 1.5.2 ssl was availble as a third party
patch that needed to be compiled in to the main disto - has python 2.0
rectified this and made it part of the distro?

thnaksinadvance.



Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From p at mjs400.co.uk  Thu Jan 18 10:25:30 2001
From: p at mjs400.co.uk (Pete)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 16:25:30 +0100
Subject: Jython on the i400 (was: Python and Industry, IBM I'm afraid)
References: <mailman.979826821.28952.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3A670AEA.14278A8@mjs400.co.uk>

Simon Brunning wrote:
> You're probably one of those people who use kilograms and grams, rather than
> pounds and ounces as God intended, right? It's the AS/400, dammit. ;-)
No, personally I believe that a good handfull of food, esp. meat (ie. a
pound) is about right for a proportioned meal for two adults.
Add an ounce of each of a variety of spices, and after some
heat....voila, un repas parfait.
Vive la difference! Mort to politikans!
--Pete


From sdm7g at virginia.edu  Tue Jan 23 17:08:55 2001
From: sdm7g at virginia.edu (Steven D. Majewski)
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 17:08:55 -0500 (EST)
Subject: I mean *setup.py* ! ... (more questions)
In-Reply-To: <3d3dea3vuh.fsf@ute.cnri.reston.va.us>
Message-ID: <Pine.NXT.4.21.0101231625550.228-100000@localhost.virginia.edu>


On 23 Jan 2001, Andrew Kuchling wrote:
>
> setup.py was written using 2.0's Modules/Setup.in as a guide to
> platform specific problems; it didn't mention MacOS X, of course.  Try
> the untested patch below; you'll need to fix whatever sys.platform is
> on MacOS X.  Please let me know what it is and let me know if it
> works.
> 

> +	if sys.platform == 'XXX fill this in':

< +	if sys.platform == 'Darwin1.2':


make clean 
make 

Oops! I forgot to delete the phoney libm.a I created. 

Try again: It works. ( for the -lm problem. I did readline 
without the -ltermcap manually and continued with make. ) 


I answered one of my other questions with a test: sticking
termios and fcntl into Modules/Setup did seem to cause it 
to NOT build as a shared lib. 

I did find one other MacOS case insensitivity problem: 
 although socketmodule is built as _socketmodule.so, and included
by lib/socket.py, lib/plat-Darwin1.2/SOCKET.py appears
to be un-importable. (  on an HFS+ volume, that is. ) 


I noticed again that 'make test' doesn't really work until 
after a 'make install' , as none of the platform files are
generated from lib/plat-generic until the install phase. 

Ideally, this ought to get done earlier in the make. 

If there no simple fix for that: what do we need to do to 
get a lib/plat-Darwin1.2 directory with prebuilt files
added to the distribution ?  ( I have all the files after
a successful install. ) 




-- Steve Majewski 

   




From tim.one at home.com  Tue Jan 16 02:42:44 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 02:42:44 -0500
Subject: Python and Industry, IBM I'm afraid
In-Reply-To: <3A63D9E8.F9B74ACE@mjs400.co.uk>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCKEPFIIAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Pete]
> Has anyone ported Python to IBM iSeries 400?...Or is this
> considered too much hassle, because they are big fat trucks
> of servers - and come bundled with no GUI support (they have
> had posix for many years)?...Or are people waiting for Linux
> support in a logical OS partition?...Or does no one care?

A Python port to platform X, regardless of X, is almost always done by some
user of X who wants to run Python on X, and usually working alone.  That's
how things work in any project without revenue to pay for a port (don't know
whether you've used Python, but if you have and someone charged you for it,
you were suckered bigtime).

I don't know whether there are any Python ports to IBM iSeries 400, but, if
there aren't, that would be because no IBM iSeries 400 user bothered to port
it.  In which case, you'll have to ask them what their hangup is -- or ask
IBM why they don't think it's worth their time to make a port available.
Note that Intel and Microsoft cared enough to pay ActiveState for a Win64
Python port.  So there's more than one way to get a port done, but the only
way that's free requires a volunteer.

> I say this because in the rarified atmosphere of this newsgroup (hee
> hee) an ignorant observer might well think that Python thrives only
> in academy land.

Huh -- that really *would* be an ignorant observer <0.7 wink>.

win95-ain't-exactly-a-postdoc-status-symbol-ly y'rs  - tim




From tim.one at home.com  Fri Jan 12 17:02:36 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 17:02:36 -0500
Subject: ZODB and Python 2.0
In-Reply-To: <93nta2$p59$1@newsmaster.axxent.ca>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCIEFBIIAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Steve Menard]
> ...
> So finally, my question is this : Why isn;t ZODB available as a separate
> package using the distutils?

http://sourceforge.net/projects/zodb/




From mlh at idi.ntnu.no  Wed Jan 31 19:56:59 2001
From: mlh at idi.ntnu.no (Magnus Lie Hetland)
Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 01:56:59 +0100
Subject: Sets in Python
References: <mailman.980905187.10012.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <95aceb$s79$1@tyfon.itea.ntnu.no>

"Tim Peters" <tim.one at home.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.980905187.10012.python-list at python.org...
[...]
> Note Greg Wilson's PEP for adding a set type to Python:

Nice!

Any chance that this may be included some time in the future?

And as regards "... in dict"; It would perhaps be more natural
to see a dict as a set of pairs, so that the dictionary would
act similarly to dict.items()?

I.e. "(key, val) in dict" would be the same as
"(key, val) in dict.items()" except that it would take O(1)
time...?

Oh, well... If we get a set type I guess that isn't necessary.

(And I would *love* to have a set type. :-)))

--

  Magnus Lie Hetland      (magnus at hetland dot org)

 "Reality is what refuses to disappear when you stop
  believing in it"                 -- Philip K. Dick





From ljohnson at resgen.com  Fri Jan  5 11:07:04 2001
From: ljohnson at resgen.com (Lyle Johnson)
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 10:07:04 -0600
Subject: Returning the path of a file
References: <mjob5tgge328h1sj94elg4b8sldrtteeus@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <t5bs4ckfl5qs91@corp.supernews.com>

> 2) Is there a builtin or method to delete a file or do I have to
> execute an os process to do this?

Use the os.remove() function:

    import os

    os.remove("thefile");

Sorry I can't answer your first question ;)




From hwanjoyu at students.uiuc.edu  Sat Jan  6 15:54:42 2001
From: hwanjoyu at students.uiuc.edu (hwan-jo yu)
Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2001 14:54:42 -0600
Subject: Q: operation not permitted error...
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.10.10101061451070.1369-100000@ux12.cso.uiuc.edu>

Hi,

When I try to call keys() function of a shelve, it returns the following 
error.

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "size.py", line 6, in ?
    k = s.keys()
  File "/usr/local/lib/python2.0/shelve.py", line 55, in keys
    return self.dict.keys()
bsddb.error: (1, 'Operation not permitted')


### source code ###
import shelve
s = shelve.open("aaa")  # 'aaa' is a shelve data file created before
k = s.keys()
print len(k)

What caused this error ?
Thanks



From jacobs at darwin.epbi.cwru.edu  Mon Jan 22 11:30:58 2001
From: jacobs at darwin.epbi.cwru.edu (Kevin Jacobs)
Date: 22 Jan 2001 16:30:58 GMT
Subject: Python & GUI?
References: <3A674896.C7E52247@crepido.com> <947j3i01h9k@news2.newsguy.com> <3a6c2f9c.2770560@news.btx.dtag.de>
Message-ID: <94hn82$j43$1@eeyore.INS.CWRU.Edu>

Stefan Franke <spamfranke at bigfoot.de> wrote:
> On Thu, 18 Jan 2001 21:15:56 +0100, "Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote:
> [...]
>>my personal favorite, however, is Dynamic
>>Html -- used in a cross-platform way, it has some limitations,
>>but, targeting one specific and powerful browser (such as IE),
>>it's awesome, 

> I've no idea what's possible on this route, could you point me
> to some examples (for IE)?

I've written a very simple DHTML spreadsheet at:

  http://gallery.theopalgroup.com/DOMsheet

Its not Python, though I use Python to process the information server-side.

-Kevin

-- 
----------->  Kevin Jacobs  <-----------|------->  (216) 986-0710  <--------
Informatics Consultant                  | Department of Epidemiology
Primary mail:   jacobs at theopalgroup.com |   & Biostatistics
Alternate mail: jacobs at darwin.cwru.edu  | Case Western Reserve University
----------------------------------------------------------------------------


From glandrum at my-deja.com  Sun Jan 21 10:56:09 2001
From: glandrum at my-deja.com (Greg Landrum)
Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 15:56:09 GMT
Subject: SVG Tools?
References: <mailman.980089104.18988.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <94f0qn$ju1$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

In article <mailman.980089104.18988.python-list at python.org>,
  msrisney at rocketmail.com wrote:
> I've been messing about with a collection of Perl modules,
> and scripts related to dynamic SVG generation.
> Are there any equivilant  Python efforts out there ?,

Here are just a couple I know about.

Sketch supports SVG exports:
http://sketch.sourceforge.net/
but I haven't used it.


Piddle includes an SVG canvas in the CVS version
http://sourceforge.net/projects/piddle/
and Sping (the new name for piddle) includes the same canvas.  Sping
is accessible from the piddle pages on sourceforge.

I'm the author of the SVG canvas for piddle/sping.  It supports static
SVG, no interaction or fancy filters or anything like that (this is
consistent with the Piddle Canvas API).  I keep thinking about adding
interactivity support to the Piddle SVG canvas, but I haven't devoted
any significant time to it yet (other things always seem to come up).

I hope this helps,
-greg





Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From andreas at andreas-jung.com  Wed Jan 17 10:04:59 2001
From: andreas at andreas-jung.com (Andreas Jung)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 16:04:59 +0100
Subject: gettings mounted file systems [newbie]
In-Reply-To: <20010117161413.E3B19A828@darjeeling.zadka.site.co.il>; from moshez@zadka.site.co.il on Wed, Jan 17, 2001 at 06:14:13PM +0200
References: <A69BC9CA4B39D411BF2200105A45B45B075B8C44@dhexchange.discoveryhealth.co.za> <20010117161413.E3B19A828@darjeeling.zadka.site.co.il>
Message-ID: <20010117160459.A24154@yetix.sz-sb.de>

On Wed, Jan 17, 2001 at 06:14:13PM +0200, Moshe Zadka wrote:
> On Wed, 17 Jan 2001, Langa Kentane <LangaK at discoveryhealth.co.za> wrote:
> > Greetings gurus.
> > 
> > I am trying to find a way how I can get a list of mounted file systems using
> > python.
> > How would I go about doing this? I have looked into the documentation and
> > have not found anything to help.

I think there  is no portable way. Either check /etc/mtab or under Linux /proc/mounts.

Andreas



From thomas at xs4all.net  Wed Jan 31 04:58:32 2001
From: thomas at xs4all.net (Thomas Wouters)
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 10:58:32 +0100
Subject: localtime(clock()) yields 12/31/69 under Wme
In-Reply-To: <957a4e$fp7vt$1@ID-59885.news.dfncis.de>; from thomas.heller@ion-tof.com on Tue, Jan 30, 2001 at 10:02:00PM +0100
References: <3A772BB5.77A3078C@yahoo.com> <957a4e$fp7vt$1@ID-59885.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <20010131105831.M962@xs4all.nl>

On Tue, Jan 30, 2001 at 10:02:00PM +0100, Thomas Heller wrote:
> Try time.localtime(time.time())

Or, in Python 2.1, just do 'time.localtime()' ;-)

-- 
Thomas Wouters <thomas at xs4all.net>

Hi! I'm a .signature virus! copy me into your .signature file to help me spread!



From ivnowa at hvision.nl  Fri Jan 26 10:56:19 2001
From: ivnowa at hvision.nl (Hans Nowak)
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 16:56:19 +0100
Subject: xor operator?
In-Reply-To: <20010126165038.O922@xs4all.nl>
References: <3A719880.6621@hvision.nl>; from ivnowa@hvision.nl on Fri, Jan 26, 2001 at 04:32:16PM +0100
Message-ID: <200101261559.QAA27362@axil.hvision.nl>

On 26 Jan 01, Thomas Wouters wrote:

> > > In the specific Python
> > > sense, the return value of the boolean xor operation would also be
> > > vague.
> 
> > Simply 0 or 1 would be a possibility, but that is not what Python's
> > 'and' and 'or' do. So maybe, if it evaluates to true, it returns the
> > 'true' element; otherwise it returns 0 (like 'and' and 'or' do).
> 
> 'and' and 'or' never return '0'. They always return one of their elements,
> that's what makes them so useful (in my eyes :) xor doesn't have that 

Hm, I see what you mean:

>>> (2==1) and (4>5)
0
>>> 3 and []
[]

I originally come from a Pascal-ish background, and in that language a 
boolean expression always returns a Boolean, so either True or False, but 
not something else. I guess it's in the nature of the language.

I found Python's behavior very confusing at first -- 'and' and 'or' that 
return something else than 0 and 1? I've come to like it now, but 
apparently haven't fathomed everything of it.

> > Can't speak for him, but I always wondered why the xor was missing, too.
> > It simply belongs there next to the and/&, or/| pairs. :)
> 
> Well, that might be, but like I said, none of the languages I know have a
> boolean xor operator. If you really really want it, you can use
> 
> (not not x)^(not not y)
> 
> which is just about as obvious as 'x xor y'. 

I never needed it myself; I have just been wondering why it wasn't there. 
Same thing for C, by the way.

> I'm not really explaining why it isn't there, because I don't know, I'm just
> explaining why not many people care :) The chance of getting it now, though,
> is very slim. 'and' and 'or' are keywords, and 'xor', as an operator, would
> have to be, too. Introducing keywords can break a lot of code :P

We might slip in this keyword when the string module will be removed. 
Everyone's code will then be broken anyway, so people will hardly notice. 
;-)


--Hans Nowak (ivnowa at hvision.nl)
Info Vision Europe BV



From jan.dries at dcube-resource.be  Sun Jan  7 16:09:22 2001
From: jan.dries at dcube-resource.be (Jan Dries)
Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2001 22:09:22 +0100
Subject: new enum idiom
References: <G6qzLy.6Fo@world.std.com> <938jmh$919$1@animus.fel.iae.nl> <3A58B9C0.9F2A5CC0@collins.rockwell.com>
Message-ID: <3A58DB02.ED3022B@dcube-resource.be>


Jonathan Polley wrote:
> 
> Is is possible to modify the 'enum' function so that I don't have to provide a
> class?  I would like to use something like this method to create enumerated types,
> but I don't want to keep generating classes that say:
>
> I would like to just do a:
> 
> MIDI_Event = enum("NOTE_ON", "NOTE_OFF", 3, "POLYPHONIC_KEY_PRESSURE",
> "CONTROLLER_CHANGE")

I once wrote a class to simulate enums. Using it, you can write:

  colors = enum("GREEN","BLUE","RED","YELLOW")

and you can subsequently refer to the enum constants as:
  
  x = colors.GREEN

If no value is supplied, the first name is assigned 0, the second 1 and
so on. But you can supply values, as in:

  colors = enum("GREEN=1","BLUE=0x08","RED","YELLOW")

Anyway, here's the class:

import re

class enum:
    def __init__(self,*names):
        self.__mnames = {}
        value = 0;
        for i in names:
            pairs = re.split("\s*[=]\s*",i)
            if len(pairs) == 2:
                value = eval(pairs[1])
            self.__mnames[pairs[0]] = value
            value += 1
			
    def __getattr__(self,name):
        try:
            return self.__mnames[name]
        except:
            raise AttributeError
			
    def __setattr__(self,name,value):
        if name == "_enum__mnames":
            self.__dict__[name] = value
        else:
            raise AttributeError



From cg at schlund.de  Wed Jan 10 04:20:05 2001
From: cg at schlund.de (Carsten Gaebler)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 10:20:05 +0100
Subject: Determine whether STDIN is gzipped
References: <3A5ADB84.194BAD4E@schlund.de> <93f0sf020mm@news1.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <3A5C2945.37447ADD@schlund.de>

Hi Alex!

Many thanks for your suggestions. I think it'll work that way and
performance is not really an issue here.

cg.


From djmoore at uh.edu  Wed Jan 31 18:39:12 2001
From: djmoore at uh.edu (DaveMoore)
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 17:39:12 -0600
Subject: Any practice exercises for beginner???
References: <qz%d6.29887$KP3.8385706@news3.rdc1.on.home.com>
Message-ID: <a12h7tsq9o7bkgdm649cnh5ld49g0op5st@4ax.com>

On Wed, 31 Jan 2001 21:36:22 GMT, "shaka" <fabrice.n at home.com> wrote:
>
> I was just wondering beside the tutorial if there was any practice
>exercises to reinforce beginners strength in python?
>I can recall that when learning Java, some Java website offered some
>exercises for beginners.
>
First of all, check out the Useless Python Page:
<http://www.lowerstandard.com/python/pythonsource.html>.
Download and run the code, see what it does, then try to duplicate it.

There is a link there to the Association for Computing Machinery
Collegiate Programming Contest Problem Set Archive, but it's
been updated:
http://acm.uva.es/problemset/
(Note that contest entries must be in C/C++ or Pascal.)
(Great Grotty Ghu, this thing has an automated on-line
judge! I bet that's a pretty piece of code!)

Here's a problem I recently had fun with:

Many of the Win32 Network Resource enumeration tools return a list of 
dictionaries:
[{'name':'comp1','comment':'room 100','type':WKSTATION},
 {'name':'comp2','comment':'room 101','type':SERVER}]

Try converting this to a dictionary of lists:
{'comp1':['room100',WKSTATION],'comp2':['room 101',SERVER]}

(Typed by hand, hope I got the punctuation right.)

Now step through the dictionary, printing out the characteristics
associated with each computer in a neatly-formatted table.

Hm, didn't come out in order, did it? Fix that.

It's interesting to do this with a large (15-20 entries), sorted
list(the Win32 functions return a list sorted by computer name); if
you print the result dictionary out as each entry is added, you can
watch the dictionary reorganize itself as it grows.

(This is as far as I got, I'm interested in the enumerated resources,
and this turns out not to be the best way to do what I want. But it
was an educational exercise.)

If you have a lot of time to waste, er, invest, write a wrapper that
solicits input to fill the source list, and then lets you search the
resulting dictionary for a particular entry. Duplicates of
already-existing entries should be handled gracefully. If you're
really ambitious, provide a mechanism to edit and delete entries as
well.

OK, now re-write the interface so it uses Tk/Tcl dialogs instead of a
text-based interface.

-- 
Dave Moore == djmoore at uh.edu == I speak for me.
In the wrong hands, sanity is a dangerous weapon.


From dbrueck at edgix.com  Thu Jan 25 17:01:13 2001
From: dbrueck at edgix.com (Dave Brueck)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 15:01:13 -0700
Subject: Tkinter vs wxPython: your opinions?
In-Reply-To: <slrn971716.ums.zeitlin@seth.lpthe.jussieu.fr>
Message-ID: <BLEOJGEMBNBNEAKMIFDHEEIOPHAA.dbrueck@edgix.com>

> On 25 Jan 2001 19:41:19 GMT, Neil Cerutti <cerutti at together.net> wrote:
> >The current documentation for Tkinter is much better than what is
> >available for wxPython.
>
>  This is very strange. Where is good documentation for Tkinter to
> be found?
> When I had tried to learn using it (this was 5 years ago, true) I couldn't
> find any documentation at all. wxWindows documentation is probably what
> has personally attracted me so much to it.

Heehee ... the main reason I ended up using wxPython instead of Tkinter was
because with wxPython I had little or no problems finding answers to my
questions.. the documentation isn't 100% but I found it to be far more
comprehensive than anything I could find for Tkinter. That and wxPython's
layout, events, etc. are very straightforward and easy to use (not that
Tkinter's aren't, I just didn't find wxPython's confusing or difficult at
all).

-Dave




From warrickb at my-deja.com  Tue Jan 30 07:14:13 2001
From: warrickb at my-deja.com (warrickb at my-deja.com)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 12:14:13 GMT
Subject: Wrapping up a C++ class
References: <954496$ues$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <9546rv01ahd@news2.newsguy.com> <9565q3$nnh$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <Fkxd6.9841$Qb7.1506259@newsb.telia.net>
Message-ID: <956b6i$ri8$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

I've gone through the mentioned stuff (Which of course makes sense to a
C++ programmer ;) but it doesn't help that much if I want a simple
example of a C++ class made accessible to Python.

I've just been looking through the Boost library which seems quite good
if a little tricky to unravel at first glance.  I was wondering how
exactly most people keep track of the class instance pointers though?

Thanks.


In article <Fkxd6.9841$Qb7.1506259 at newsb.telia.net>,
  "Fredrik Lundh" <fredrik at effbot.org> wrote:
> "warrickb at my-deja.com" wrote:
> > Thankyou all I shall take a look and see if I can make sense of
it!  It
> > does strike me as odd that there isn't a simple one source file
example
> > of how to do it in the docs though...
>
> well, it does strike me as odd that there are C++ programmers
> out there who don't understand C:
>
>     Objects/xxobject.c
>     Modules/xxmodule.c
>
> overviews and reference docs are here:
>
>     http://www.python.org/doc/current/ext/ext.html
>     http://www.python.org/doc/current/api/api.html
>
> Cheers /F
>
>


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From sheila at spamcop.net  Thu Jan 18 13:24:59 2001
From: sheila at spamcop.net (Sheila King)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 18:24:59 GMT
Subject: Slicing and offsets
References: <945bvp$thj$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <3A672D9B.6E71F709@san.rr.com>
Message-ID: <43de6t4pt870d9qb54l6nek6pf21n1m26g@4ax.com>

On Thu, 18 Jan 2001 17:53:30 GMT, Darren New <dnew at san.rr.com> wrote in
comp.lang.python in article <3A672D9B.6E71F709 at san.rr.com>:

:gustabares at my-deja.com wrote:
:> Why is it that when I slice S it's no longer the 0 offset anymore, but
:> now it is 1?
:
:I'm not sure I understand the question, but I'm guessing this might be the
:answer:
:
:You don't "slice S". Instead, you're asking for a slice of S. Unlike pie,
:this doesn't change S. Slicing is a function that gives back a new and
:different string that's independent of what you sliced.

Ah, I think you have got it. I've been following this thread, trying to see
what it was about.

Maybe this illustration would help?

>>> S='spam'
>>> S[0:]
'spam'
>>> S[1:]
'pam'
>>> T=S[1:]
>>> T[0:]
'pam'
>>> 



--
Sheila King
http://www.thinkspot.net/sheila/
http://www.k12groups.org/


From trotts at mit.edu  Mon Jan 29 00:19:02 2001
From: trotts at mit.edu (Issac Trotts)
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 21:19:02 -0800
Subject: ANN: clifford.py 0.6
In-Reply-To: <952pv7$4do@gap.cco.caltech.edu>; from kern@myrddin.caltech.edu on Mon, Jan 29, 2001 at 04:01:43AM +0000
References: <952pv7$4do@gap.cco.caltech.edu>
Message-ID: <20010128211902.C10658@llnl.gov>

Cool, so do you know if anyone is working on a symbolic 
package for Clifford/Geometric Algebra (other than me)?

Issac


Robert Kern (kern at myrddin.caltech.edu) wrote:

> Okay, I finally got off my lazy duff and put the fixed version
> on the Starship.
> 
> clifford.py is an implementation of Clifford (geometric) algebras
> in Python using Numerical Python (http://numpy.sourceforge.net).
> 
> I posted a previous (and embarassingly buggy) version to c.l.py,
> so now, I belatedly fix that mistake and put the new version on
> the Starship.
> 
> Location: http://starship.python.net/crew/kernr/source/clifford.py
> 
> New in version 0.6:
> 
>  * fix a few stupid bugs that don't show up in 3 Euclidean dimensions
>  * introduce a new algorithm for join and meet that actually works,
>    but isn't very numerically stable: but it's better than nothing
>  * various fixes and clean-ups
>  
> -- 
> Robert Kern
> kern at caltech.edu
> 
> "In the fields of hell where the grass grows high
>  Are the graves of dreams allowed to die."
>                              -- Richard Harter
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list



From erno-news at erno.iki.fi  Mon Jan  1 14:12:49 2001
From: erno-news at erno.iki.fi (Erno Kuusela)
Date: 01 Jan 2001 21:12:49 +0200
Subject: STRPTIME method missing from TIME class, in win32 ?
References: <WA246.38186$MA1.947625@afrodite.telenet-ops.be>
Message-ID: <kuae9bqe6m.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>

"Werner" == Werner Geuens <wgeuens at pandora.be> writes:

| Can someone give me a sane explanation WHY ?

windows doesn't implement it.

this has been discussed numerous times before, you can look in the
archives for more discussion.

  -- erno


From joejava at dragonat.net  Fri Jan  5 18:47:02 2001
From: joejava at dragonat.net (Joel Ricker)
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 18:47:02 -0500
Subject: Migrating to perl?
References: <3Fa56.4580$of7.216286@news1.atl><mailman.978670867.31055.python-list@python.org><V%c56.4648$of7.221797@news1.atl> <mailman.978707587.25701.python-list@python.org> <935093030hc@news2.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <j4t56.1073$4Z.78460@news2.atl>

Alex Martelli wrote in message <935093030hc at news2.newsguy.com>...
>"Skip Montanaro" <skip at mojam.com> wrote in message
>news:mailman.978707587.25701.python-list at python.org...
>    [snip]
>> I couldn't tell you.  I'm a Unix weenie.  I boot my laptop into Windows
>when
>> I need to run Excel... ;-)

>Having a good cross-platform Python interface to StarOffice things
>would be a GREAT thing, by the way...


An Excel interface may be a possibility as well.  I know that there is work
on an Excel module for perl thats coming along nicely -- only write
capabilities for now though.  It takes some reverse engineering but it is
possible.  Although being a windows weenie I'm not sure that an Excel file
could be imported or exported onto a unix platform and work just as well on
windows.  I'll keep it in mind ;)

Joel





From lsloan00 at my-deja.com  Tue Jan  2 13:25:20 2001
From: lsloan00 at my-deja.com (lsloan00 at my-deja.com)
Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2001 18:25:20 GMT
Subject: book recommendation?
Message-ID: <92t6e7$9jn$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

I'm new to Python and I would appreciate suggestions
for what would be a good reference book to buy?
I'm an old hand in general.  I know C and Perl very
well and Java a little.  I've been a programmer and
sysadmin for eight years.  I'm looking for a book
that would be a good language reference, but also
has introductions to Python's special features without
being too "slow".


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From murple at my-deja.com  Mon Jan 22 05:07:15 2001
From: murple at my-deja.com (murple at my-deja.com)
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 10:07:15 GMT
Subject: Python 2.0 parser module bug(?) and a Q
References: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10012272204060.330-100000@kev.ioc.ee> <p6qofxxe43j.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de> <Pine.LNX.4.10.10012281200430.23773-100000@kev.ioc.ee>
Message-ID: <94h0oh$69j$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

Hi,

> > A  colleague of mine has an "unparser" module for Python AST; that
is
> > not (yet) released to the public, and works not (yet) for 2.0.

I'm the colleague mentioned. My solution to the
problem doesn't look as good as yours:

I was  rebuilding the Python-code by examining the structure of the
syntax-tree.
This is also the reason,why it's not working with Python 2.0.
I was using the strings in the syntax-tree
only for identifiers. Feeling a little bit
stupid for not seeing this other solution.

> Any constructive critisism is welcome!

Ok, your wish is my command :-)

I noticed two problems:

1. If you have double DEDENT, there is a
'\r' left in the resulting string. This
seems to be easely solved by an replace()

2. Anything like "modul.class.function" comes out
as "modul  . class . function". Using replace
to solve this is not good, since you would replace
also in wrong places. I think, here you would have
to look into the structure of the syntax-tree.

Maybe you have an solution for 2.?

Another question is, which way is faster.
You have to do more recursions, because when
I find a symbol.sym_name["class_stmt"] in the tree, I write a "class",
you go another step to find the "class"-string in the tree.
On the other side, I have to do a lot more comparisons then you do.

Maybe after a code-cleanup I will compare the
solutions.

Anyway, I learned a lot about Python by doing
this Unparser (as I call it). It was my first
Python-program ever. And I learned a lot about
Python-Syntax this way.

Hope my comments help you in any way.

By, Andreas


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From paulp at ActiveState.com  Thu Jan 18 23:01:59 2001
From: paulp at ActiveState.com (Paul Prescod)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 20:01:59 -0800
Subject: adding the XML to 2.0 to be a mistake?
References: <mailman.979611383.15529.python-list@python.org> <3d8zocuqrd.fsf@kronos.cnri.reston.va.us>
Message-ID: <3A67BC37.213BAACB@ActiveState.com>

Andrew Kuchling wrote:
> 
> John Schmitt <jschmitt at vmlabs.com> writes:
> > Pardon the ignorance, but where is the mistake?  Is it in adding PyXML to
> > 2.0 or is it the way it was done?  Is there no development strategy that
> > makes this less of a burden?  If a previous release of PyXML had been added
> > to 2.0, would you still consider it a mistake?
> 
> Duplicating complex code in two different projects, so that they have
> to be kept in sync manually at the cost of time and effort, is the
> mistake.  

I agree with this. I don't think that minidom should have an existence
independent of Python. The PyXML minidom should be phased out. The only
reason it was not is because some people still use it with older
versions of Python. But that will always be a problem when code is moved
from an "extension" environment to the standard library.

> Another one is tying a fast-moving project such as PyXML to
> the slower releases of Python; Python 2.0 was released on October 16,
> and there have been two PyXML releases (0.6.2 and 0.6.3) since then.

I don't know what you mean by saying that PyXML is "tied to Python."
PyXML depends on Python, just as PIL and NumPy do.

 Paul Prescod



From cerutti at together.net  Thu Jan 25 15:14:53 2001
From: cerutti at together.net (Neil Cerutti)
Date: 25 Jan 2001 20:14:53 GMT
Subject: Tkinter vs wxPython: your opinions?
References: <3A6F899F.E164F628@home.com> <hvZb6.2156$_8.33280@news1.rdc1.bc.home.com> <slrn9710o1.73.cerutti@fiad06.norwich.edu> <iF%b6.9208$Qb7.1327643@newsb.telia.net> <slrn9712f3.1f.cerutti@fiad06.norwich.edu>
Message-ID: <slrn9712n1.7j.cerutti@fiad06.norwich.edu>

Neil Cerutti posted:
>Fredrik Lundh posted:
>>Neil Cerutti wrote:
>>> My advice, although I've got limited experience, is to go with
>>> Tkinter, and read the following great document, by Python Labs'
>>> Fredrik Lundh:
>>
>>footnot: I work for Secret Labs, also known as PythonWare.
>>
>>(for some reason, someone thought it would be a good idea to
>>create a new company name from two of our trademarks...)
>>
>>Cheers /F
>
>Sorry. I'm still proud that I spelled your name correctly.

One more thing:

No new-line characters in check-box labels in wxPython. At least,
I couldn't figure out how to do that or to get the label to wrap
at a boundary.

-- 
Neil Cerutti <cerutti at together.net>


From ngps at madcap.dyndns.org  Sat Jan 13 10:42:56 2001
From: ngps at madcap.dyndns.org (Ng Pheng Siong)
Date: 13 Jan 2001 15:42:56 GMT
Subject: How robust is Python ?
References: <9358nn$3c5$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <20010106103938.8FCAFA84F@darjeeling.zadka.site.co.il> <mailman.979313781.1111.python-list@python.org> <93psqa$ucd$1@coco.singnet.com.sg>
Message-ID: <93pt20$7ks$1@clematis.singnet.com.sg>

According to Ng Pheng Siong <ngps at post1.com>:
> while alive:

Ouch! Reading that again I hope this does not continue the recent
"while 1" thread. ;-)



-- 
Ng Pheng Siong <ngps at post1.com> * http://www.post1.com/home/ngps



From ommadawn at club-internet.fr  Wed Jan 10 10:41:41 2001
From: ommadawn at club-internet.fr (Christophe Prevost)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 15:41:41 -0000
Subject: Problems with zipfile module...
References: <93ha6j$ca6$1@reader1.imaginet.fr> <3aW66.5508$AH6.782619@newsc.telia.net>
Message-ID: <93hsb3$gjh$1@reader1.imaginet.fr>

"Fredrik Lundh" <fredrik at effbot.org> a ?crit dans le message news:
3aW66.5508$AH6.782619 at newsc.telia.net...

> >    backup = zipfile.ZipFile(zip, "w", "ZIP_DEFLATED")
>
> ZIP_DEFLATED is a module constant, not a string value.
> try changing the above line to:
>
>     backup = zipfile.ZipFile(zip, "w", zipfile.ZIP_DEFLATED)

Yes! Thank you Fredrik!
It works now




From joe at apk.net  Fri Jan 12 23:22:20 2001
From: joe at apk.net (Joseph T. Adams)
Date: 13 Jan 2001 04:22:20 GMT
Subject: Should I learn Python or Java?
References: <HEO56.5504$y9.2881293@typhoon.we.rr.com> <9393jk$fku$1@plonk.apk.net> <939q0a$d8s$1@newshost.accu.uu.nl>
Message-ID: <93ol5s$2c8$1@plonk.apk.net>

Martijn Faassen <m.faassen at vet.uu.nl> wrote:
: Joseph T. Adams <joe at apk.net> wrote:
: [snip]
:> Smalltalk is far more similar to Java than to Python, so this may make
:> Java feel a little more familiar for you.

: This I don't believe is true; Smalltalk is far more similar to *Python*
: than to Java. Syntaxwise, Smalltalk is as different from Java as it
: is from Python, and the semantics of dynamic typechecking is far
: more like Python than like than like statically-typed Java.
: The one aspect where Java and Smalltalk are more similar is that both
: have the tendency to isolate themselves into Java-only and Smalltalk-only
: environments, instead of focusing on interoperability. Oh, and another
: similarity between Java and Smalltalk is a focus on OO everywhere,
: where Python is more paradigm agnostic -- but the way they
        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
: try to accomplish it is quite different; Java basic types are not
: really objects as far as I know, for instance, whereas Python's are
: (with some restrictions).

: So why do you say Smalltalk is far more similar to Java than to Python?


Probably the part I underscored above.  Smalltalk and Java both seem
attuned to the same OO-centric mindset, while Python is as you say
more paradigm-agnostic.


Joe


From marco at crepido.com  Sat Jan 20 07:45:29 2001
From: marco at crepido.com (Marco =?iso-8859-1?Q?Seiri=F6?=)
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 13:45:29 +0100
Subject: Python & GUI?
References: <3A674896.C7E52247@crepido.com>
Message-ID: <3A698869.198D6263@crepido.com>

Thank you VERY much for the help. I have now tested
some of your suggestions and I think I'll use Python
in my project. Not Perl as I thought of first....

The Python community seems to be just super from what
I can read here....

/M

> 
> Are there any GUI components or ways to build a GUI in
> Python that contains all the widgets that one would expect to
> find in a VB or Java environment. Can you (easily) build things
> like explorer like applications and such...
> 
> /M


From raseliar at dts.mg  Sat Jan  6 09:41:41 2001
From: raseliar at dts.mg (Nirina Raseliarison)
Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2001 17:41:41 +0300
Subject: How To Think Like A Computer Scientist
Message-ID: <3A572EA5.9B2E10DA@dts.mg>

Hi All,

Can you point to me another URL for the Python version?
This one, I found in the archive:
http://www.elkner.net/obp/thinkCS/thinkCSpy/index.htm
seems to be broken now.
Thanks in advance for your help
Nirina



From shenwang at my-deja.com  Mon Jan 22 15:15:48 2001
From: shenwang at my-deja.com (shenwang at my-deja.com)
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 20:15:48 GMT
Subject: How to define event handler in win32com?
References: <94hfsd$hkd$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <94i4da$5nc$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

Thanks guys, I will start looking at the codes.


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From bowman at montana.com  Tue Jan 23 21:43:37 2001
From: bowman at montana.com (bowman)
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 19:43:37 -0700
Subject: How do I kill an empty file ??
References: <94k9p5$vs2$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <Hjrb6.9622$d25.61906@newsfeed.slurp.net>

<chris.nelson at bwc.state.oh.us> wrote in message
news:94k9p5$vs2$1 at nnrp1.deja.com...
> Ultimately I'm looking for sytax that will
> ignore processing a file if it is empty.

os.stat(file) will yeild a tuple including st_size. the stat module defines
indices, so

if  os.stat(file)[ST_SIZE] == 0:
    pass

or somesuch






From aahz at panix.com  Fri Jan 19 10:33:08 2001
From: aahz at panix.com (Aahz Maruch)
Date: 19 Jan 2001 07:33:08 -0800
Subject: PSU uses emacs?
References: <948e4b$hm0$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <slrn96gjd2.1ch.gerhard.nospam@lilith.hqd-internal.de>
Message-ID: <949mnk$bgu$1@panix6.panix.com>

In article <slrn96gjd2.1ch.gerhard.nospam at lilith.hqd-internal.de>,
Gerhard =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E4ring?= <gerhard.nospam at bigfoot.de> wrote:
>
>jstar from joe here. Everybody who grew up with MS-DOS and Turbo-Pascal
>knows that the WordStar keybindings are the one-and-only that really count.

Except that *I* grew up with CP/M and TurboPascal.  And I still prefer
vi these days.  (Largely because of the fuckheads who mucked with the
Proper way to design a keyboard, with the control key to the left of the
"A" the way Ghod intended.)
-- 
                      --- Aahz (Copyright 2001 by aahz at pobox.com)

Androgynous poly kinky vanilla queer het    <*>     http://www.rahul.net/aahz/
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6

I guess I mostly see Life [tm] as a process of closing doors that you
might want to go through.  --Aahz


From fredrik at effbot.org  Tue Jan 30 16:08:41 2001
From: fredrik at effbot.org (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 21:08:41 GMT
Subject: Cannot find libModules.a lib*.a, etc...
References: <9578l9$nj3$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <t3Gd6.10295$Qb7.1525608@newsb.telia.net>

jvanar1 at my-deja.com wrote:
> I have a serious dilemma.  I am trying to embed python into C and I'm
> having the most difficult time locating libModules.a libParser.a and
> libObjects.a.  From what I read they were supposd to have been created
> in their respective folders (i.e. Python/Modules/libModules.a) but are
> not. I tried re-building and installing the newest version (2.0)
> several times.

looks like you've been using old embedding docs; the library
name was changed in 1.5 (released in january 1998).

$ cd Python-2.0
$ ls -l *.a
-rw-r--r--    1 eff     bot       3473280 Jan 12 09:39 libpython2.0.a

Cheers /F




From grey at despair.rpglink.com  Sat Jan 20 02:45:40 2001
From: grey at despair.rpglink.com (Steve Lamb)
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 07:45:40 -0000
Subject: Translating a Perl script into Python
References: <vo9i6t04nhurgv2avmgoss4mg86ofcuhtv@4ax.com> <kug0ied7po.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi> <oeei6tg7hfdcsptg6f4sosp2s1evko0i4l@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <slrn96igh4.q4j.grey@teleute.dmiyu.org>

On Sat, 20 Jan 2001 07:13:25 GMT, Sheila King <sheila at spamcop.net> wrote:
>Thanks. I guess, I was kind of wondering about the comparison to the Perl
>command, which is pretty common for opening files in Perl:

    I'm going to go backwards on this.  Answer this and then move back to see
what your original post was.

>open PROC, ">proc.test" || die "Couldn't open file for write: $!";

>Is the closest I can get in Python, to a Perl "die" statement, is to use
>exceptions? (I'm directing this to the group, not just Erno, as I realize he
>may not know Perl.

    Off the top of my head, might not be the best way...

import os
import sys

file = 'proc.test'
try:
    proc = os.open(file,O_WRONLY)
except IOError, error:
    sys.exit('Counldn't open file for write: error')

-- 
         Steve C. Lamb         | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your
         ICQ: 5107343          | main connection to the switchboard of souls.
-------------------------------+---------------------------------------------


From michael at stroeder.com  Thu Jan 18 06:04:21 2001
From: michael at stroeder.com (Michael =?iso-8859-1?Q?Str=F6der?=)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 12:04:21 +0100
Subject: Python and Industry, IBM I'm afraid
References: <3A63D9E8.F9B74ACE@mjs400.co.uk> <mailman.979631000.28993.python-list@python.org> <941c14$dok$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <mailman.979786609.2939.python-list@python.org> <946evt02mr@news2.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <3A66CDB5.CEB18AF5@stroeder.com>

Alex Martelli wrote:
> 
> "D-Man" <dsh8290 at rit.edu> wrote in message
> news:mailman.979786609.2939.python-list at python.org...
>     [snip]
> > I have a part time job at a local grocery store that has a
> > video department.  The computer system they use is an IBM
> > mainframe with AIX (4 I think).
>
> (there _was_ an AIX/370, or
> something like that, that you *could* run on mainframes, but
> it didn't sell much at all);

If you're talking about using Python by running a Unix-flavour you
could try to convince your mainframe admin to install Linux in a VM.

AFAIK e.g. S.u.S.E. is planning to build a Linux distribution for
this platform.

Ciao, Michael.


From tim.one at home.com  Wed Jan 31 02:42:04 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 02:42:04 -0500
Subject: interactive test
In-Reply-To: <958a1s$kjb$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCOEFMIMAA.tim.one@home.com>

[mrnolta at my-deja.com]
> What's the appropriate way to test for an
> interactive Python session? Right now I'm using:
>
> 	if sys.path[0] == '':
> 		interactive = 1
>
> which works, but it's often screwed up by people
> mangling the search path.
>
> I tried testing the Py_InteractiveFlag global, but
> that doesn't seem to work.

Py_InteractiveFlag works fine, but it's non-zero only when -i is an argument
to Python (it records whether the Interactive Flag was specified).

Beyond that, Python doesn't really know whether it's in an interactive
session.  It decides whether to run off printing prompts based on whether
its input file appears to be a tty (or doesn't but -i was specified).  A
side effect of that is probably the best handle you've got:  the prompt
(normally ">>> ") is the value of sys.ps1, but that attribute of sys doesn't
get created *unless* Python believes it needs to print a prompt.  So

import sys
if hasattr(sys, "ps1"):
    # probably interactive
else:
    # probably not interactive

You can't be certain with this, though, because there's nothing to stop a
user from creating or destroying sys.ps1 themself.

although-i-have-yet-to-see-someone-do-either-ly y'rs  - tim




From m.faassen at vet.uu.nl  Sat Jan 13 08:31:55 2001
From: m.faassen at vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen)
Date: 13 Jan 2001 13:31:55 GMT
Subject: Should I learn Python or Java?
References: <93phsc$c4c$1@newshost.accu.uu.nl> <HEO56.5504$y9.2881293@typhoon.we.rr.com> <9393jk$fku$1@plonk.apk.net> <939q0a$d8s$1@newshost.accu.uu.nl> <93ol5s$2c8$1@plonk.apk.net> <mailman.979391117.21488.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <93plcb$c4e$3@newshost.accu.uu.nl>

Moshe Zadka <moshez at zadka.site.co.il> wrote:
> On 13 Jan 2001 12:32:12 GMT, m.faassen at vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen) wrote:

>> But there's a huge difference in the way OO is done in both languages.
>> Smalltalk approach to objects is a lot more similar to Python's than
>> Java's. Anyway, it's of course debatable. :)

> OTOH, Java and Smalltalk both take the "we are the world" approach,
> while Python slithers into whatever niches it finds, playing nicely
> with everyone it finds there. (UNIX? It can fork/pipe/munge text files with
> the best of them. Windows? It can COM and ActiveX until your face
> turned blue. Java? There isn't a class it can't use)
> (I know you know this)

And in fact, I wrote it a few posts higher up in this thread. :)

Regards,

Martijn
-- 
History of the 20th Century: WW1, WW2, WW3?
No, WWW -- Could we be going in the right direction?


From phrxy at csv.warwick.ac.uk  Mon Jan 29 08:47:48 2001
From: phrxy at csv.warwick.ac.uk (John J. Lee)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 13:47:48 +0000
Subject: win32 DLL import problem
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.30.0101291323540.148-100000@mimosa.csv.warwick.ac.uk>

Python 2.0 running on win95 gives me the following on trying to import a
copy of multipack I compiled on NT:

> >> import Multipack
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>   File "c:\python20\multipack\Multipack.py, line 16, in ?
>     from minpack import *
>   File "c:\python20\multipack\minpack.py", line 2, in ?
>     import _minpack
> ImportError: DLL load failed: One of the library files needed to run this
> application cannot be found.

but apparently doesn't feel the need to tell me *which* library file it
can't find.  It can't be _minpack.pyd, because it just found two other
files in the same directory -- unless it doesn't recognise it as a valid
.pyd for some reason?

I compiled multipack on NT with cygwin, with the -mno-cygwin switch, which
is supposed to link against the same C run-time library as the python 2.0
distribution itself, msvcrt.dll (which is there on the win95 machine)
rather than the cygwin crtdll, so presumably that can't be the problem,
but since I don't know which file it can't find, it's hard to say!  It
does import okay on NT.

Thanks for any help


John




From gregj at pobox.com  Thu Jan 11 02:15:08 2001
From: gregj at pobox.com (Greg Jorgensen)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 07:15:08 GMT
Subject: Reading Microsoft Outlook Express .dbx files
References: <mailman.979155094.17298.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <04d76.251982$U46.8023631@news1.sttls1.wa.home.com>

"Tim Peters" <tim.one at home.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.979155094.17298.python-list at python.org...

> Hint:  The undocumented Ctrl+F3 brings up a box with the actual raw email,
> headers and MIME separators and all (only in OE; Outlook doesn't support
> this, and AFAICT Outlook doesn't even save the original stream).

Both Outlook and Outlook Express can show the original raw message source,
though it isn't obvious. In OE choose File | Properties | Details | Message
Source (or use ctrl+F3 to do the same thing). Outlook has a different path
to the message source; I don't have Outlook at home so I don't remember the
path, but it's there. Outlook can save selected messages to a text file,
which OE can't do.

--
Greg Jorgensen
PDXperts
Portland, Oregon, USA
gregj at pobox.com




From cpsoct at my-deja.com  Sat Jan 20 03:41:39 2001
From: cpsoct at my-deja.com (cpsoct at my-deja.com)
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 08:41:39 GMT
Subject: Random and whrandom
Message-ID: <94bj03$59v$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

does random call whrandom or are they two completly different random
number algorhythms? I could never figure that out. And Rand? That is
depreciated, no? Why is there random *and* whrandom and when do you use
which?

inquiring minds wanna know!

cheers,
kevin parks
seoul, korea




Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From Dan.Rolander at marriott.com  Thu Jan 18 10:29:27 2001
From: Dan.Rolander at marriott.com (Rolander, Dan)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 10:29:27 -0500
Subject: How to run script from interpreter?
Message-ID: <6176E3D8E36FD111B58900805FA7E0F80CCF62D3@mcnc-mdm1-ex01>

What is the best way to run a python script from within the interpreter?
What command should I use?

Thanks,
Dan




From bhoel at starship.python.net  Fri Jan 12 14:47:25 2001
From: bhoel at starship.python.net (Berthold Höllmann)
Date: 12 Jan 2001 20:47:25 +0100
Subject: mxtools install (for PySplines)
References: <93nkme$sgl$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <m24rz4zh6a.fsf@pchoel.privat.uni-hamburg.de>

bernard604 at my-deja.com writes:

> Hello
> 
> 
> I am trying to install PySplines and it requires mxtools.
> I have tried to install mxtools but have failed. I tried to compile it
> using the instructions (make -f Makefile.pre.in boot).  Is there a rpm
> of it anywhere. I have seen
> something at http://www.2xtreme.net/chadn/python/RPMS/, but I was not
> able to download it from there. I am using Mandrake 7.1 if that is of
> any use.
> 
> If anyone has gotten PySplines installed, I would like to know how they
> did it

Hello,

Of course I was able to install it, because I've written it (at least
I once wrote a PySpline that somehow needs mxTools). What is your
problem, when you compile mxTools? What is your Python version. I
never worked on Mandrake, so could you please tell what gcc version
Mandrake 7.1 uses? Could you post a error message.

Cheers

Berthold
-- 
bhoel at starship.python.net / http://starship.python.net/crew/bhoel/
        It is unlawful to use this email address for unsolicited ads
        (USC Title 47 Sec.227). I will assess a US$500 charge for
        reviewing and deleting each unsolicited ad.


From michael at stroeder.com  Sat Jan 27 14:19:02 2001
From: michael at stroeder.com (Michael =?iso-8859-1?Q?Str=F6der?=)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 20:19:02 +0100
Subject: Interested in a Crypto-SIG?
References: <3A72C8A3.C4B4D69A@stroeder.com> <slrn97650f.i1.amk@mira.erols.com>
Message-ID: <3A731F26.15461A27@stroeder.com>

"A.M. Kuchling" wrote:
> 
> There's already a
> python-crypto list at egroups which could be used to coordinate work
> on such a unified API

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Welcome to python-crypto
Date: 27 Jan 2001 18:58:49 -0000
From: python-crypto Moderator <python-crypto-owner at yahoogroups.com>
[..]
<P>The list is hosted inside the US, as are its archives, so
to avoid falling afoul of the US export restrictions, it's
recommended that postings not contain complete programs or modules. 
A few lines of code, for illustrating a point or a bug, are probably
OK.  Patches to existing crypto code falls in a grey area; it's best
to mail them to the software's maintainer. 
-------- Original Message --------

This does not attract me very much.

Ciao, Michael.


From avv at quasar.ipa.nw.ru  Tue Jan  9 13:56:39 2001
From: avv at quasar.ipa.nw.ru (Alexander V. Voinov)
Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2001 10:56:39 -0800
Subject: What's about PyTix?
References: <3A5ABF19.3771F634@proceryon.at>
Message-ID: <3A5B5EE7.AFF939E3@quasar.ipa.nw.ru>

Hi

Horst Gassner wrote:
> Does anyone know if PyTix is still available?
> 
> If yes, where can I find a actual version?
> Will PyTix work with Python 2.0, too?

This worked for me:

ftp://starship.python.net/pub/crew/avv/PyTix/

Note that binaries placed there are built against Python 1.5.2.

Quite recently a person told me that he incorporated this into modern
versions of Tcl/Tk/Tkinter. See http://tix.sourceforge.net/, but I
didn't find any mention of Pytix there.

Alexander


From andrew.spambgone.chatham at duke.edu  Sun Jan 14 21:41:14 2001
From: andrew.spambgone.chatham at duke.edu (Andrew H. Chatham)
Date: 15 Jan 2001 02:41:14 GMT
Subject: names
References: <pls86.100769$f36.4497959@news20.bellglobal.com>
Message-ID: <slrn964p3g.2f5.andrew.spambgone.chatham@fizgig.dorm.duke.edu>

On Mon, 15 Jan 2001 01:26:45 GMT, Elliott Chapin <echapin at sympatico.ca> wrote:
>How can I get the name of an object as a string? As a biginner I might
>imagine something like
>
>>>>b=[[1],[2]]
>>>>name(b)
>'b'

You can't. The object doesn't know what it's name is, because the name
corresponds to the reference to the object, not the actual object. It's
sometimes tough to realize that variables don't store objects, they store
references to objects.

So if I do

>>>b = [[1],[2]]
>>>c = b

c and b refer to the same list. If I then tried to hypothetical "name"
function, the list would have no idea whether to say 'c' or 'b'.

Andrew


-- 
Andrew Chatham
Duke University '02
andrew.chatham at duke.edu


From fredrik at effbot.org  Sat Jan 20 15:53:28 2001
From: fredrik at effbot.org (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 20:53:28 GMT
Subject: Neophyte looking for good books on Python
References: <94ak66$dra$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <94aulr$m1o$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <980023572.27042@iris.nyx.net>
Message-ID: <cVma6.7845$AH6.1243898@newsc.telia.net>

Sarayu Balu wrote:
> These days, there seems to be a newer edition so often,
> that we programmers have become suckers for the publishing
> company.

...on the other hand, the first edition is nearly five years old,
and the new edition is rumoured to be a complete rewrite...

Cheers /F




From ksaehwa at my-deja.com  Tue Jan  2 04:00:10 2001
From: ksaehwa at my-deja.com (ksaehwa at my-deja.com)
Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2001 09:00:10 GMT
Subject: LCTES 2001 (ACM SIGPLAN Workshop)
Message-ID: <92s5ap$fvf$1@nnrp1.deja.com>


                       Call for Papers

                ACM SIGPLAN 2001 Workshop on
 Languages, Compilers, and Tools for Embedded Systems (LCTES'2001)
             Snowbird, Utah, June 22 - 23, 2001
              (in conjunction with PLDI'2001)

             http://redwood.snu.ac.kr/lctes2001/

======================================================================
Important Dates

* papers due:  Feb. 25, 2001 (5pm EST)
* author notification: Apr. 15, 2001
* final papers due: May. 19, 2001

======================================================================
Scope of the Conference

As the complexity of the application domains for the embedded systems
increases, new research challenges are encountered for achieving
desired level of performance goals (which could be diverse such as
speed, real time constraints, code size, power, and scalability).
Due to limited resources locally available, embedded systems are
increasingly used in a networked (wired, wireless, as well as mobile)
environment. In addition, advances in hardware reflect into solving
issues using a combination of hardware and software techniques.
The aim of LCTES is to provide a forum for discussing the latest
research related to the above trends and to allow researchers and
developers working on different aspects to get together and synergize.
Original submissions are invited in all areas relevant to this theme.

======================================================================
Paper Submission Guidelines

Papers should report new research and should not exceed 6000 words
(approximately 10 typeset on 16-point spacing), including figures and
references (11 pages). Short papers that describe existing
implementations or work-in-progress, or outline new problems or
important issues are also welcome. Short papers should not exceed 3000
words (6 pages). All accepted papers will be presented at the workshop
and published in the proceedings, which will be distributed at the
workshop. We anticipate that the proceedings will be published as an
issue of the ACM SIGPLAN Notices.

Electronic submissions must be received by 5:00 PM Eastern Standard
Time,Sunday, February 25, 2001. Interactive submissions through the
workshop's web page are encouraged. Submissions may also be sent as a
single e-mail message to either of the program co-chairs (MIME
attachments are allowed); the message should contain both the filled-
out form (see web page) and the Postscript paper. Electronic papers
should be in Postscript form, which must be interpretable by
Ghostscript. The Postscript must use standard fonts, or include the
necessary fonts, and must be prepared for USLetter (8.5"x11") or A4
page sizes. Authors who cannot meet these requirements should submit 15
hard copies by post to either of the program co-chairs by airmail that
must be received on or before February 25, 2001. These are firm
constraints; submissions not meeting the criteria described above
will not be considered.

======================================================================
Co-Chairs

Santosh Pande
College of Computing, 801 Atlantic Drive
Georgia Institute of Technology
Atlanta, GA 30332, USA
phone: +1-404-385-2169, fax: 385-2295
email: santosh at cc.gatech.edu

Seongsoo Hong
School of Electrical Engineering
Seoul National University
Seoul 151-742, KOREA
phone: +82-2-880-8370, fax: 882-4656
email: sshong at redwood.snu.ac.kr


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From duncan.booth at lineone.net  Fri Jan 26 04:54:58 2001
From: duncan.booth at lineone.net (Duncan Booth)
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 09:54:58 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: python-2.1 function attributes
References: <ul3snm8dfae.fsf@smaug.fsl.noaa.gov> <m3n1cgzvpj.fsf@atrus.jesus.cam.ac.uk> <ul3ofwwddsy.fsf@smaug.fsl.noaa.gov> <mailman.980396369.12407.python-list@python.org> <Xns903472CE5CAduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1> <94pmsj$36d$1@animus.fel.iae.nl>
Message-ID: <Xns9035647BDF054duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

Carel Fellinger <cfelling at iae.nl> wrote in <94pmsj$36d$1 at animus.fel.iae.nl>:

>Duncan Booth <duncan.booth at lineone.net> wrote:
>> Paul Prescod <paulp at ActiveState.com> wrote in 
>> <mailman.980396369.12407.python-list at python.org>:
>...
>> How about something along the following lines?
>
>> __attributes__= { 'attribute1' : 'val1', 'attribute2' : val2 }
>> def spam():
>>     """The doc string."""
>>     pass
>
>or even better(?) after the def but before spam making it visual clear
>that it belongs to spam's definition, but hasn't access to anything but
>the enclosing scope, like in:
>
>def { 'attribute1' : 'val1', 'attribute2' : val2 } spam():
>    """The doc string."""
>    pass
>
>this only works nice for litteral dicts, so bumber.

The advantage of my suggestion is that not only does it not require new 
syntax, but it doesn't put any limitations on how you create __attributes__. 
For example:
__attributes__ = ProjectDefaultAttributes()
__attributes__['unittest'] = '''Some unit test description'''
__attributes__['interface'] = SomeInterfaceStructure()
def spam(a, b):
    pass


From rturpin at my-deja.com  Sat Jan 20 10:28:11 2001
From: rturpin at my-deja.com (rturpin at my-deja.com)
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 15:28:11 GMT
Subject: I (don' ) will kill my Python
References: <94b6vr+8av8@eGroups.com> <mailman.979970182.28582.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <94caq6$kij$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

In article <mailman.979970182.28582.python-list at python.org>,
  "Tim Peters" <tim.one at home.com> wrote:
> Python was never designed for standalone operation.
> That's life.  What they *should* say is:  "This is my
> program!  I have created it by myself! Look! And it's
> only 507 bytes!  Now you go to http://www.python.org/2.0/
> and click on 'Windows installer'.  Then we can share tiny
> Python programs via email forever after."

This makes good sense. For amateurs exchanging their
experiments.

> Businesspeople have other concerns ..

Distribution is much more an issue for commercial
enterprises, especially those that want to support an
application on thousands (millions?) of clients.  Once
you start thinking about this, you quickly believe
that the sensible thing is to create a new Python
distribution on each platform, regardless of whether
one already exists. (a) You want to know that the
platform was installed correctly. If you just check
for the presence of Python, it might be a partial or
corrupt distribution someone ignorantly copied from a
friend of a friend. (b) You want to make sure that the
distribution is the version against which you have
regression tested the code. Despite the strong efforts
to keep Python backward compatible, anyone who has
been involved in QA of commercial products gets very
paranoid about shipping what is tested. Nothing more.
Nothing less. Nothing different. (c) You want to guard
against someone else on the platform purposely or
accidently changing any of the libraries, before or
after your product is installed.

> .. but they can afford to hire Gordon.

Is he job hunting?

Russell




Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From scarblac at pino.selwerd.nl  Wed Jan 10 09:26:25 2001
From: scarblac at pino.selwerd.nl (Remco Gerlich)
Date: 10 Jan 2001 14:26:25 GMT
Subject: book recommendation?
References: <92t6e7$9jn$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <93gg3l$nje$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <slrn95os1q.5ad.scarblac@pino.selwerd.nl>

lsloan00 at my-deja.com <lsloan00 at my-deja.com> wrote in comp.lang.python:
> In article <92t6e7$9jn$1 at nnrp1.deja.com>,
>   lsloan00 at my-deja.com wrote:
> > I'm looking for a book
> > that would be a good language reference, but also
> > has introductions to Python's special features without
> > being too "slow".
> 
> Okay, I'm being too picky.  Since nobody's given any
> suggestions, maybe my request should be:
> 
> Please recommend a good Python book.

Since you have experience with three other languages already, I'm tempted to
recommend "Python Essential Reference". It's a very good reference book. It
also includes a short tutorial, but at 11 pages it may be too short. I don't
own it myself, but the reviews have been uniformly positive.

I learned Python with "Learning Python", also having programming experience,
and I liked it a lot. Python has only a few tricky things to understand, and
this book explained them well. But it's not a reference at all.

There are lots of other books, see http://www.amk.ca/bookstore/python.html .

There is of course also the online method: read the tutorial at
www.python.org, browse the library reference, read this group, ask questions
and help other newbies on the Tutor list, that sort of thing :).

-- 
Remco Gerlich


From hwhite at chiliad.com  Thu Jan  4 12:45:13 2001
From: hwhite at chiliad.com (Heather Lynn White)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 12:45:13 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Alex Martinelli's solution to regular expression/findall problem
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10101041243490.14979-100000@salmonfalls.lilybay.com>

Your searchall function is just what I needed and it will sit happily in
my library.  Thanks alot.

Heather





From parz at home.com  Tue Jan  9 11:39:02 2001
From: parz at home.com (Parzival Herzog)
Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2001 16:39:02 GMT
Subject: One bug and yer out with Pythonwin debugging?
Message-ID: <G8H66.20$c6.12956@news1.rdc1.mb.home.com>

I am using Python 1.5.2 with Pythonwin 1.25 on a Win2K machine.

I am running a wxPython application, using "post-mortem debugging",
and whenever the app fails with an unhandled exception (e.g. Attribute
error),
the debugger window comes up, and I can see where and what the problem
is.

Next, I try to correct the source code in the Pythonwin IDE, and run the app
again. This never succeeds: Sometimes a Pythonwin process appears that
is caught in a compute loop, sometimes an exception occurs in wxWindows
that says you can't have more than one wxApp instance, sometimes nothing
happens (apparently).

I get the impression that the previous instance of the my app is not
properly
terminated at the time the first bug (exception) occurs. I have told the
debugger
to "End", and closed the debugger window, and searched in vain for some
other
way to terminate the running application.

The only way I have found to continue after an exception is to terminate the
entire Pythonwin IDE, and then restart it.

Is there anyway to continue the Pythonwin IDE session after an exception
occurs in the debugged app?

Thanks, Parzival





From joejava at dragonat.net  Sat Jan  6 18:44:25 2001
From: joejava at dragonat.net (Joel Ricker)
Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2001 18:44:25 -0500
Subject: Migrating to perl?
References: <3Fa56.4580$of7.216286@news1.atl><mailman.978670867.31055.python-list@python.org><V%c56.4648$of7.221797@news1.atl> <mailman.978707587.25701.python-list@python.org> <935093030hc@news2.newsguy.com> <j4t56.1073$4Z.78460@news2.atl> <937o8801nva@news1.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <W7O56.2378$4Z.127506@news2.atl>

Alex Martelli wrote in message <937o8801nva at news1.newsguy.com>...
>"Joel Ricker" <joejava at dragonat.net> wrote in message
>news:j4t56.1073$4Z.78460 at news2.atl...
>    [snip]
>> An Excel interface may be a possibility as well.  I know that there is
>work
>> on an Excel module for perl thats coming along nicely -- only write
>> capabilities for now though.
>
>Write-only?  Seems _just_ the right job for Perl, then:-).
>
>[Yah, yah, I know, we're not supposed to badmouth the competition, but
>the coincidence with the thread's peculiar subject was irresistible...].


[I realized I should have said *from perl* instead of *to perl* the instant
I clicked post.  I tried running after it in an attempt to stop it.  Almost
caught up with it at my ISP but the light changed and it was gone...]

I had dreams of expanding that module to read Excel files.  Guess now I'll
just do a Find-and-Replace on my todo list from "in Perl' to "in Python".

Joel





From pearu at ioc.ee  Tue Jan  2 10:08:06 2001
From: pearu at ioc.ee (Pearu Peterson)
Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2001 17:08:06 +0200
Subject: sre \Z bug or feature?
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10101021649240.9742-100000@kev.ioc.ee>

Hi,

In python 1.5.2, I have

>>> re.match(r'(?ms).*?}\s*\Z(?P<rest>.*)','{}\012}\012').groupdict()
{'rest': ''}

but in Python 2.0 the same match gives

>>> re.match(r'(?ms).*?}\s*\Z(?P<rest>.*)','{}\012}\012').groupdict()
{'rest': '\012}\012'}

which is surprising because according to docs:

\Z  Matches only at the end of the string.

It seems that the `{}' part is somehow responsible to this behaviour
because

>>> re.match(r'(?ms).*?}\s*\Z(?P<rest>.*)','aa\012}\012').groupdict()
{'rest': ''}

is expected result and is obtained with Python 2.0.

In Python docs and its release notes I found nothing that could explain
this behaviour. 

So, is this a bug or an undocumented feature? If later, could some
one, please, explain the basics of this feature? If former, any hints how
to go around this bug without updating Python from CVS after it is fixed?

Thanks,
	Pearu



From fredrik at effbot.org  Fri Jan 19 12:52:56 2001
From: fredrik at effbot.org (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 17:52:56 GMT
Subject: How to run script from interpreter?
References: <mailman.979912371.22565.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Y9%96.7280$Qb7.1088494@newsb.telia.net>

Dan Rolander wrote:
> One more thing, is there a way to pass a command line parameter to the
> script named in execfile? Say if I have a script to test which expects a
> value in sys.argv[1]?

did you try putting it in sys.argv[1] ?

import sys
sys.argv = ["spam.py", "one", "two", "three"]
execfile("spam.py")

Cheers /F




From donn at u.washington.edu  Thu Jan 25 14:03:21 2001
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: 25 Jan 2001 19:03:21 GMT
Subject: sockets: client dies...
References: <94kmt5$cuj$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <94ksfl$r2a$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu> <94ngqn$rph$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <3A6F8AB1.BDF23F5D@home.com> <94pj8n$jfl$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <94pn5h$t3e$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu> <94ppr8$qac$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <94pt9p$o6e$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>

Quoth Keith Murphy <kpmurphy at my-deja.com>:
...
| if i don't setblocking to 0, then it will get hung up on one client...
| waiting for a message, right?  i'm afraid i don't know what select()
| is...
|
| i guess what i'd like is a better way to sit around and listen to n
| hosts, and be able to detect when one has died.

select() is documented, it's in the select module.  If you want to
really understand sockets and a lot more, the classic reference is
Stevens, any decent bookstore will have it.  If you want a solution
already written in Python, asyncore in the standard distribution
might be worth a look.  

	Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu


From donn at u.washington.edu  Tue Jan  2 13:25:29 2001
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: 2 Jan 2001 18:25:29 GMT
Subject: Returning objects from C extension modules.
References: <roy-4C735E.16184201012001@news.panix.com>
Message-ID: <92t6ep$ch6$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>

Quoth Roy Smith <roy at panix.com>:
| I've played around a bit with building extension modules in C, and I think 
| I've got the hang of the basic stuff.  I (think) I understand how to use 
| Py_BuildValue() to return simple values, and lists, tuples, or dictionaries 
| of these.
|
| But, what I don't get is how to implement a class and return an object of 
| that class.  For example, let's say I've got a function in C which looks like 
| this:
|
| typedef struct {
|    int weapon_count;
|    char name[MAX_NAME];
| } record;
|
| record *get_record ()
| {
|    record *rec_ptr;
|
|    rec_ptr = (record *) malloc (sizeof (record));
|    rec_ptr->weapon_count = 3;
|    strcpy (rec_ptr->name, "spanish inquisition");
|    return rec_ptr;
| }
|
| and I want to turn it into a python module which returns an object of class 
| sketch, as if I had done something like:
|
| class sketch:
|    def __init__ (self)
|       self.weapon_count = 3
|       self.name = "spanish inquisition"
|
| Do I need to have my extension module return a tuple of values, then build a 
| thin wrapper in python which creates the class, instantiates an object of 
| that class, and then copies the items of the tuple into the object?  Or is 
| there something more straight-forward?

If it's appropriate for your application, you can make a "type" in C.
There are plenty of examples in the source tree - look for PyObject_New()
in the Modules subdirectory.  I didn't see anything about this in the
Extending document, to my surprise.

The resulting object is like a class instance, but isn't one.

I think a bona fide class is most easily created, as you surmise, in
Python instead of C.  That's a good alternative to a "type" object,
if the C functions can make do with ordinary Python data types.

	Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu


From pblanchette at pixelsystems.com  Wed Jan  3 08:56:39 2001
From: pblanchette at pixelsystems.com (Patrick Blanchette)
Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 13:56:39 GMT
Subject: Memory leak
References: <92t8gp$blv$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <1103_978530180@display_02>

I experienced a similar problem when I run script that use the win32 extension embeded in a server.  
When I call the Py_Finalize method, the memory is not free completely.  
I think the Patch #101713 talk about this problem.  It seems that python have problem 
handling multiple Py_Initialize and Py_Finalise when extension are used.

I hope this problem will be corrected soon.


On Tue, 02 Jan 2001 19:00:48 GMT, alex116321 at my-deja.com wrote:
> I am experiencing memory leakage when using Python and COM.
> Specifically, I am using the Micosoft XML Parser to load and traverse
> XML DOM stuctures.  Everytime I access an XML node, more memory is
> consumed.  After a while, this can eat away most of the system
> resources if the Python session is not terminated.  Here is a simple
> example (assume the interpreter is used as a server and does not exit):
> 
> ############################################
> #Note: using del doesn't seem to help
> ############################################
> import win32com.client
> 
> o = win32com.client.Dispatch("microsoft.xmldom")
> o.loadXML("<test/>")
> 
> for idx in range(50000):
> 	node = o.selectSingleNode("//test")
> 
> #############################################
> 
> Any suggestions would be appreciated.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent via Deja.com
> http://www.deja.com/





From fgeiger at datec.at  Thu Jan 25 08:10:29 2001
From: fgeiger at datec.at (Franz GEIGER)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 14:10:29 +0100
Subject: Why does using threads not speed up things?
References: <94oob9$ahq$1@newsreaderg1.core.theplanet.net>
Message-ID: <94p8if$j2a$1@newsreaderg1.core.theplanet.net>

This question really was not very precise. Sorry abaout that, stupid me.

Source was on a machine in the LAN, destination on the local machine (drive
D:).

Singlethreaded: Scanning the directory tree on the machine in the LAN took
1300 seconds, 600 secs for the local drive.
Multithreaded: This was in total 300 secs faster, which means, that 50% of
the "local job" were done in parallel to the "LAN job". Now that's really
not so bad, is it?

Thanks for your quick reply and sorry not being that precise.

Best regards
Franz

"Franz GEIGER" <fgeiger at datec.at> wrote in message
news:94oob9$ahq$1 at newsreaderg1.core.theplanet.net...
>
> I wrote a file synchronizer, which copies newer files to a backup
> destination and there deletes files that don't exist anymore on the
source.
> The synch source and the synch destination are connected by a LAN. So I
> thought it would be a good idea to scan the source and the destination in
> parallel, using two threads. I expected a performance gain of let's say 30
> %.
>
> So I did a few tests and wrote a sample programm that gathers file names.
It
> does this in 2 tasks: Task 1 gathers the file names on the source, task 2
on
> the destination. To be able to compare this version with the one is used
> until now, I did it that way too: First scan the source, then scan the
> destination. I called the former multithreaded version and the latter
> singlethreaded version.
>
> The singlethreaded version took 1900 seconds to execute, the multithreaded
> version took 1600 seconds. The gain is 300 seconds, which is about 15 %
> faster than the singlethreaded version.
>
> If source and destination lies on the same machine, there is no
significant
> difference in performance.
>
> As I said I'd expected more, because there is a lot of slow disk I/O
> involved and data transfer over a 10MBit section of our LAN. Or did I miss
> something?
>
> Best regards
> Franz GEIGER
>
>
>
>




From db3l at fitlinxx.com  Thu Jan 18 18:18:17 2001
From: db3l at fitlinxx.com (David Bolen)
Date: 18 Jan 2001 18:18:17 -0500
Subject: Access, Field names, mxODBC
References: <947ods$uk4$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <u4rywfo06.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com>

vmarkwart at my-deja.com writes:

> I'm using the mxODBC.Windows module with an Access database. Can anyone
> tell me, or point me to an SQL or other statement which can return the
> field names returned from a query.

Once you have made the query, you can use <cursor>.description, where
<cursor> is your cursor for the query, which is a tuple of tuples,
with each inner tuple representing a column of the query.

I haven't done this with Access myself (only with other databases),
but I'd presume the ODBC method to Access works the same way.

This method and the per-column tuples are documented in the Python
DB-API html files that come with mxODBC.

--
-- David
-- 
/-----------------------------------------------------------------------\
 \               David Bolen            \   E-mail: db3l at fitlinxx.com  /
  |             FitLinxx, Inc.            \  Phone: (203) 708-5192    |
 /  860 Canal Street, Stamford, CT  06902   \  Fax: (203) 316-5150     \
\-----------------------------------------------------------------------/


From tim.one at home.com  Wed Jan  3 22:21:50 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2001 22:21:50 -0500
Subject: split hangs
In-Reply-To: <14Dq0m-0PX-00@mercurio.localdomain>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCMEKFIGAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Tim, tweaks Davide]
> Then you had better start reading better stuff <wink>.  I'll repeat
> the original recommendation:  Jeffrey [note: I erroneously said
> Jonathan before] Friedl's excellent book "Mastering Regular
> Expressions" (O'Reilly).

[davide at mercurio.localdomain]
> Sorry, but the dragon book (Aho Sethi, Ullman), Introduction to
> automata theory, languages and computation (Hopcroft, Ullman) and
> thousand of others books on language theory are surely a better
> reference <wink>.

Those are excellent references for the Theory of Regular Languages, but are
pretty much irrelevant to the practice of regular expressions.  They're not
going to teach you anything about the pragmatics you need to learn if you
want to use regexps effectively in Python, Perl, Emacs, etc.  The
"theoretical best" algorithms rarely get implemented in real life.  For
example, take a construction that promises marvelous big-O improvement, but
at the up-front cost of doing work proportional to the alphabet size
(which-- for any actual alphabet --is a fixed and usually <wink> finite
constant, and so doesn't contribute to big-O).  In a Unicode world (w/ a 64K
alphabet), the result is likely of no practical use.

That doesn't mean I despise theory (quite the contrary), it means that if
you're asking (as you did) why some regexp took exponential time in Python,
your notion of "better" is inverted if it prevents you from discovering the
answer.  The books you favor aren't going to tell you; Friedl will (I
cheerfully agree that Aho et alia will tell you a world of stuff Friedl
won't though -- just not stuff that will answer your question).

>> There are two "obvious" ways to implement a regexp engine.

> Indeed, regexp matchig is quite simple.

No, Regexp Matching is simple.  The matching of regexps, on the other hand,
is a god-awful engineering nightmare.  Pick your favorite language and study
its regexp-matching source code!  Study its bug history.  Try to improve it.
Ponder why no two regexp implementations even support the same notation.
Besides being fun, it will give you a healthy skepticism about "better"
<wink>.

>> One extreme>Friedl calls "the NFA" way (although he's using
>> "NFA" in a sense that >differs from its technical meaning in the
>> literature).

> Yes, reading your post I understand that the reason is these are not NFA,
> "backreferences" are not part of regualar expressions and so we are not
> talking of regular languages.

I had more in mind that an NFA is formally defined in various ways by
various authors (like with or without epsilon transitions, with or without
multiple start states, with or without multiple same-symbol outgoing
transitions from a single state, with or without expressions (as opposed to
single symbols) on transitions, ...), but that in the implemented engines
Friedl calls "NFA" you'll rarely find any of that stuff.  At least not as
such.  The typical "NFA engine" in practice is really a general-purpose
graph-crawling backtracking engine, as powerful as the engine in SNOBOL4 --
and about as hard to predict in all cases.  While regexp notations rarely
let you get at all that power (not to mention debugging headaches), there's
been a steady trend in the Perl language to expose more of it over time
(e.g., to match nested bracket constructs, which is in the realm of
context-free languages, and so beyond what an NFA (in the non-Friedl sense)
can do).  Backreferences are just part of that; the point is that Regexp
Theory doesn't even *inform* most people who write a non-DFA regexp engine,
and that's why Regexp Theory has no useful point of contact with such
engines.

they're-only-called-regexps-they're-really-luxury-yachts-ly y'rs  - tim




From echuck at mindspring.com  Sun Jan 28 00:18:39 2001
From: echuck at mindspring.com (echuck at mindspring.com)
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 05:18:39 GMT
Subject: marshal doesn't work with "file-like" objects
References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010126135016.029c4d90@mail.mindspring.com> <mailman.980540325.4462.python-list@python.org> <94t1bi$m73$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <Wyxc6.9225$AH6.1522817@newsc.telia.net>
Message-ID: <950a3c$27b$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

In article <Wyxc6.9225$AH6.1522817 at newsc.telia.net>,
  "Fredrik Lundh" <fredrik at effbot.org> wrote:
> Chuck wrote:
> > Does anyone really believe that there is any difference in
performance?
> > Supporting file-like objects would add the overhead of a message
pass.
>
> "a couple of thousand message passes", that is.
>
> > But what's taking place here is file I/O that easily ranges from 1K
to
> > 40K (according to my dir *.pyc).
>
> marshal does lots of single byte reads.  the're only one fread
> in marshal, and that's used to read string literals.
>
> > I seriously doubt that if message passing were suddenly employed [a]
> > anyone would notice and [b] any Python benchmarks would change.
>
> maybe, but people sure notice when we *improved* marshal's
> performance:
>
>     http://deja.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=715125331
>
> > I win <0.95 wink>.
>
> nope.
>
> Cheers /F


OK, here's my next attempt:

It would be even faster to simply write the marshal results to memory
first and then blast them out to disk in one fell swoop, e.g.
ultimately one fprintf() call.

In which case, my original thought that a single message pass wouldn't
matter becomes correct.

Sound good?


-Chuck


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http://www.deja.com/


From marco at crepido.com  Sat Jan 20 11:07:41 2001
From: marco at crepido.com (Marco =?iso-8859-1?Q?Seiri=F6?=)
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 17:07:41 +0100
Subject: Different deployment considerations (was: Python & GUI?)
References: <3A674896.C7E52247@crepido.com> <3A698869.198D6263@crepido.com> <301DBDE62C14BD35.683C43A181247CB3.8398E5428BE1B406@lp.airnews.net>
Message-ID: <3A69B7CD.41CCEDE9@crepido.com>

Actually deployment is very important. But it might
be the part that is least fun to make work nicely....

In an academic world deployment often is of no concern, 
but in my world I have to be able to send out a CD with
a very easy installation procedure... 

A single binary package is preferable, my users should really
not have to care what language or run-time I use. It is 
an internal issue for me as a programmer. 


/M



Cameron Laird wrote:
> 
> In article <3A698869.198D6263 at crepido.com>,
> Marco =?iso-8859-1?Q?Seiri=F6?=  <marco at crepido.com> wrote:
> >Thank you VERY much for the help. I have now tested
> >some of your suggestions and I think I'll use Python
> >in my project. Not Perl as I thought of first....
> >
> >The Python community seems to be just super from what
> >I can read here....
>                         .
>                         .
>                         .
> The Python community is.
> 
> So is Perl's--but in a different way.
> 
> Scripting GUIs with Python is a far richer experience
> than with Perl, in general; I've studied and done both
> in some depth, and write this with confidence.  HOWEVER,
> one significant advantage of Perl/Tk (there's a second
> one, not apposite for this discussion) is its "deploy-
> ability".  There is more than one practical way to
> generate a single-file executable from a conventional
> Perl/Tk application.  What's the situation on the Python
> side?  Gordon's Installer makes Win* Tkinter apps into
> single files ...  I know of *no* other of the many Python
> GUI bindings which enjoys this benefit.
> 
> Does anyone have evidence to the contrary?
> 
> Assume the usual disclaimers:  I'm not claiming this
> deficiency, if true, is cause for alarm, hairy palms,
> starvation in the southern hemisphere, or so on.  I'm
> just out to get the facts.
> --
> 
> Cameron Laird <claird at NeoSoft.com>
> Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
> Personal:  http://starbase.neosoft.com/~claird/home.html

-- 
Marco Seiri? - Tel: 0708-88 04 64 - marco at crepido.com
Crepido Systems AB - www.crepido.com - Tel: 031-86 87 71
Box 6131, 400 60 G?teborg. Bes?k: ?v?gen 6, G?rda


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Mon Jan 22 12:19:36 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 18:19:36 +0100
Subject: How to define event handler in win32com?
References: <94hfsd$hkd$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <94hq370ar5@news1.newsguy.com>

<shenwang at my-deja.com> wrote in message news:94hfsd$hkd$1 at nnrp1.deja.com...
> After using makepy, I can easily access properties and methods of a com
> object, but I do not how to bind my python function to the events
> defined in that object. Any help?

Using DispatchWithEvents rather than Dispatch is probably simplest,
if you can use it (i.e., if you are creating the object whose
events you need to bind to): you define a class whose methods
have the name of the event-functions you want to be called (when
each suitable event occurs), and pass the class object to
DispatchWithEvents (it's in win32com.client, just like Dispatch).

For a more general solution, you may derive your class from
the makepy-wrapper for the source-interface you're interested
in getting, and instantiate your class with, as its argument,
the specific already-existing object whose events you want to
bind to (remember to call the base-class's __init__ if you
have an __init__ yourself -- THAT is the one that needs the
already-existing object as argument!).


Alex





From sheila at spamcop.net  Sat Jan 20 18:22:01 2001
From: sheila at spamcop.net (Sheila King)
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 23:22:01 GMT
Subject: Translating a Perl script into Python
References: <vo9i6t04nhurgv2avmgoss4mg86ofcuhtv@4ax.com> <94d4hk$1sq$1@animus.fel.iae.nl>
Message-ID: <i47k6t4i2vu0tgr9kd9l5udnk8q72d8648@4ax.com>

[reply posted and e-mailed]

On 20 Jan 2001 23:47:16 +0100, Carel Fellinger <cfelling at iae.nl> wrote in
comp.lang.python in article <94d4hk$1sq$1 at animus.fel.iae.nl>:

:Sheila King <sheila at thinkspot.net> wrote:
:
:for this piece of code
:>   print PROC "$key = $ENV{$key}\n";
:you used
:> 	PROC.write(key + " = " + os.environ[key] + "\n")
:
:whereas I often prefer (the (to me atleast) more Pythonic)
:        PROC.write("%s = %s\n" % (key,os.environ[key])
:
:and yet in some circumstances even the more elaborate variant
:        PROC.write("%(key)s = %(value)s\n" % {key:key, val:os.environ[key]})
:
:The latter form comes very close to the Perl way of coding, and
:is espescially suited for format strings spanning several lines.

Hmm. Interesting. I've kind of been scared off by the % stuff. I didn't
understand it, or what it was doing, and never really saw it mentioned in the
docs, other than:
"You can use the 'C'-like way of doing things..."
But I don't really know C, so that put me off.

But looking at your code, I'd venture that it works like this?
%s is a substitute for something that will be revealed later,
when you write
("%s = %s\n" % (key,os.environ[key])

The %s in the string is taking the place for something that comes later, and
then at the end you list in parenthese the later stuff, behind a % sign.

Um, did you leave out a parenthese in the above statement?

--
Sheila King
http://www.thinkspot.net/sheila/
http://www.k12groups.org/



From dsavitsk at my-deja.com  Fri Jan 26 17:09:07 2001
From: dsavitsk at my-deja.com (dsavitsk at my-deja.com)
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 22:09:07 GMT
Subject: xor operator?
References: <20010126125141.18593.qmail@nw128.netaddress.usa.net> <mailman.980517875.10931.python-list@python.org> <3A7188A9.1482CA3D@divalsim.it> <3A71951D.20A2@hvision.nl> <Fihc6.6515$Ch.1522702@newsrump.sjc.telocity.net> <94sbo702lon@news2.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <94sshs$hlp$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

In article <94sbo702lon at news2.newsguy.com>,
  "Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote:
> "savitsk" <dsavitsk at e-coli.net> wrote in message
> news:Fihc6.6515$Ch.1522702 at newsrump.sjc.telocity.net...
>     [snip]
> > > > > the only language I'm famialiar with, with a boolean XOR
operation
> :)
> > >
> > for better or worse, visual basic 6 has an Xor operator (according
to VB &
> > VBA in a nutshell, pg. 611)
>
> Sure, but, as the same excellent nutshell book indicates in the
> same page, it's *bitwise* -- 15 Xor 179 is worth 188.  It is
> thus roughly equivalent to the ^ operator of Python and is not
> the 'boolean' kind that I think is being discussed.

not correct.  look back a few pages (608) and you will notice that it
is both logical and "... [it] doubles[s] as [a] bitwise operator ..."

ds


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http://www.deja.com/


From sheila at thinkspot.net  Mon Jan 15 14:03:11 2001
From: sheila at thinkspot.net (Sheila King)
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 19:03:11 GMT
Subject: File I/O, rfc822, and stdin/stdout
References: <m9b26t8f11lvfjg8a59fo8nfdcl1ro9art@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <lsh66tcjb1tik18vv6adusknkbbrb83nlo@4ax.com>

This situation has been brought to resolution. The script I was having trouble
with before, quoted below, is now working on my web host, with the MTA
invoking it. I have installed Python 2.0 and am using that now. The web host
only had Python 1.5.1, and I believe that may have been the problem.

Of course, I've had to change the path of the script to point to my install of
Python 2.0.

On Sun, 14 Jan 2001 06:35:28 GMT, Sheila King <sheila at thinkspot.net> wrote in
comp.lang.python in article <m9b26t8f11lvfjg8a59fo8nfdcl1ro9art at 4ax.com>:

:Of course, the problem with the above script, is it doesn't give me any easy
:way of handling the message headers, for filtering purposes.
:
:So, I now tried to combine them, into a script that would be of more use to
:me:
:----------------------------------------
:#! /usr/bin/python
:
:import sys, rfc822
:
:raw_message = sys.stdin
:
:inheaders=rfc822.Message(raw_message)
:body=raw_message.read()
:
:print inheaders
:print
:print body
:----------------------------------------
:
:Supposedly, it should read from stdin, retrieve the headers and body
:separately, and then write them to stdout. But I'm getting no e-mail
:delivered.

I would also like to thank Eric Rahmig, who went to a great deal of trouble to
write a similar script, which will actually be of great use to me, as I work
to my final goal. Here is my adaptation of his script:

-----------------------------------------
#! /my/path/to/Python-2.0/python

import rfc822, sys

origheaders=rfc822.Message(sys.stdin, 0)

for h in origheaders.headers:
	print h,

print
for line in sys.stdin.readlines():
	print line,
print
print
print "This message was passed through a Python script"
print
-----------------------------------------

He sent me some assistance through e-mail.
The above script is invoked on my system through a .qmail file, with the
following contents:
------------------------------------------
|/my/path/to/Python-2.0/python /my/path/to/scriptname.py
------------------------------------------

The script reads in the e-mail from stdin, and then puts it back out to
stdout, adding a short tag. The point is, now I will be able to do what I
want: analyze the headers and decide how to handle the mails.

Thanks to all for their assistance.

--
Sheila King
http://www.thinkspot.net/sheila/
http://www.k12groups.org/



From redhouse at my-deja.com  Mon Jan  8 14:40:02 2001
From: redhouse at my-deja.com (redhouse at my-deja.com)
Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2001 19:40:02 GMT
Subject: Problems with py-indent-region in XEmacs
References: <93655e$rds$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <3A5723C1.7B53721@python.net>
Message-ID: <93d52g$46g$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

Thanks.

The thing I'm doing is that I am taking a parm list and assigning each
parameter to a class data member of the same name. I have an elisp
function which is just a glorified macro to do this, but when it is
done the indentation of the code it generates is hosed. I guess I can do
a save current column earlier and then a C-c > on the generated code.

I'm doing this because I find myself writing:

def __init__(foo,bar):
    self.foo=foo
    self.bar=bar

very frequently and was trying to speed it up.

Thanks again.

  -Carter


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From Pieter_Claerhout at CreoScitex.com  Wed Jan 17 03:49:29 2001
From: Pieter_Claerhout at CreoScitex.com (Pieter Claerhout)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 09:49:29 +0100
Subject: checking free disk space
Message-ID: <2B1262E83448D211AE4B00A0C9D61B030130184C@msgeuro1.creo.be>

Here's how you can do this on Windows:


#### START OF CODE ####
import string
import win32api
import win32file

def PrintSpaceReport(drive):
    sectorsPerCluster, bytesPerSector, numFreeClusters, totalNumClusters =
win32file.GetDiskFreeSpace(drive + ":\\")
    sectorsPerCluster = long(sectorsPerCluster)
    bytesPerSector = long(bytesPerSector)
    numFreeClusters = long(numFreeClusters)
    totalNumClusters = long(totalNumClusters)

    print
    print "Drive:     ", drive + ":\\"
    print "FreeSpace: ", (numFreeClusters * sectorsPerCluster *
bytesPerSector) / (1024 * 1024), "MB"
    print "TotalSpace:", (totalNumClusters * sectorsPerCluster *
bytesPerSector) / (1024 * 1024), "MB"
    print "UsedSpace: ", ((totalNumClusters - numFreeClusters ) *
sectorsPerCluster * bytesPerSector) / (1024 * 1024), "MB"

def main():
    AvailableDrives = []
    for i in string.split(win32api.GetLogicalDriveStrings(), '\000'):
        if win32file.GetDriveType(i) == 3: # we only need fixed drives (no
CD drives)
            AvailableDrives.append(i[:-2])
    DriveInfo = []

    print "Drive free space report"

    for drive in AvailableDrives:
        PrintSpaceReport(drive)

if __name__ == '__main__':
    main()
#### END OF CODE ###


Kind regards,


Pieter


-----Original Message-----
From: sill at localhost.kitenet.net [mailto:sill at localhost.kitenet.net]
Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2001 2:56 AM
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: Re: checking free disk space


On Mon, 15 Jan 2001 14:23:59 +0200, Langa Kentane
<LangaK at discoveryhealth.co.za> wrote:
>Good day.
>
>I want to write a script that I can use to check the free disk space on all
>drives.  The script will be used in Linux and Wind0ze.
>
>For instance, I want to write something like:
>
>get list of mounts/drives
>for i in mount_list
>	check disk space left in %
>	if disk space is certain amout:
>		do this
>	else
>		do that
>	endif
>endrun
>
>Please can you point me in the right direction.  I posted something before
>on this list but I realised that will not work in a wind0ze environment.

On unix you can parse output of df, and on windows I'm not entirely sure
but doesn't dir command tell you how much space is left on drive? So you
can keep trying cd X:; dir; starting with C and until you run out of
drives..
You can tell if it's a cd if it's under 650mb and has no free space at all.

>
>Thanks in advance.
>
>__________________________________________________________
>Langa Kentane		| TEL: (011) 290 3218
>Security Administrator	| Cell: 082 606 1515
>DISCOVERY HEALTH		| http://www.discoveryhealth.co.za
>__________________________________________________________________
>
>


-- 

	Andrei
-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list



From aahz at panix.com  Wed Jan 31 11:55:15 2001
From: aahz at panix.com (Aahz Maruch)
Date: 31 Jan 2001 08:55:15 -0800
Subject: Time limited threads?
References: <9591b8$2if@news.or.intel.com>
Message-ID: <959g1j$l79$1@panix2.panix.com>

In article <9591b8$2if at news.or.intel.com>,
Miki Tebeka <tebeka at lycosmail.com> wrote:
>
>Is there a way I can limit a threads execution time? (and then resume it
>later?)

Not directly in standard Python.

>Background:
>We're giving an exercise in scheduling.
>I'd like to give the students a service that runs one thread for a given
>time quota.
>Then they will write the scheduler.

You might try looking at microthreads.
-- 
                      --- Aahz (Copyright 2001 by aahz at pobox.com)

Androgynous poly kinky vanilla queer het    <*>     http://www.rahul.net/aahz/
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6

"People sometimes focus too much on the fact of communication rather than
the substance of communication."  --Dave Morton


From Stowasser.h at idowa.de  Wed Jan  3 09:54:31 2001
From: Stowasser.h at idowa.de (Harald Stowasser)
Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 15:54:31 +0100
Subject: Zope ZClass & Namespace
Message-ID: <3A533D27.254D9B5D@idowa.de>

First of all, hello to all who read this.

Im new in this group, so feel free to tell me if im dooing something
wrong ;-)

So now to my problem. I have a Apache-Server with ZOPE and want to write
some ZClasses in PythonMethod's. Now i got a problem with the propertys
where my method is in.

I wan't to write into the property by my Python-programm but this don't
work.

my code:

/______ ZOPE (dtml):

<dtml-with Redaktion>
  <p>Ort= <dtml-var Ort></p>
  <dtml-var "TestPython(Redaktion)">
  <p>Ort= <dtml-var Ort></p>
</dtml-with>

/______ Redaktion-Objekt:

test="P" + self.Ort + "P"
  ---> self.Ort = test <--- DONT WORK
return test

brings the error:
  Error Type: Python Method Error
  Error Value: Forbidden operation STORE_ATTR at line 3

So you see if the property Ort is "THING"
then should apear:

THING
PTHINGP
PTHINGP

If i delete the marked line my Progamm works, but it brings me this:

THING
PTHINGP
THING

( Of course )

Why i can not write into the variable ?

P.S. sorry for my bad english.


From m.faassen at vet.uu.nl  Sat Jan 13 11:00:48 2001
From: m.faassen at vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen)
Date: 13 Jan 2001 16:00:48 GMT
Subject: Python language suggestion
References: <93l4ve$no3$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <3A5E1D2B.1DC60661@alcyone.com> <93m3r6$fuj$1@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net> <3A5E9E45.9A59848F@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <93pu3g$cem$1@newshost.accu.uu.nl>

Erik Max Francis <max at alcyone.com> wrote:
> Andrew Dalke wrote:

>> I believe he means
>>   foo.'bar bletch'
>> as an alternate way of doing
>>   getattr(foo, 'bar bletch')
>> 
>> not as foo['bar bletch']

> That's not what he said.  He explicitly used the subscription notation
> and even said "dictionary-like objects."

But an instance is quite a bit like a dictionary, and can be considered
to be syntactic sugar for one.

Anyway, if the proposal is what Andrew is suggesting, it's an interesting
idea, which I'm mulling over too. I don't know..

One problem seems to be the string methods. What happens here?

foo.' bar '.strip()

Also, where does it end? After all, not only strings can be used as 
dictionary keys:

foo.1 = 2

Though I just checked and setattr() certainly doesn't accept:

settattr(a, 1, "foo")

It does work through __dict__ though:

a.__dict__[1] = "foo"

print a.__dict__[1]

But this seems to be of limited applicability; getattr only takes strings
too. :)

Regards,

Martijn
-- 
History of the 20th Century: WW1, WW2, WW3?
No, WWW -- Could we be going in the right direction?


From rturpin at my-deja.com  Wed Jan 17 14:27:12 2001
From: rturpin at my-deja.com (rturpin at my-deja.com)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 19:27:12 GMT
Subject: threading: how to kill a (possibly blocked) thread?
References: <3A649FE4.E582D0E0@ll.mit.edu> <u1yu2vmiq.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com> <944ekb$ri$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <Kvl96.137$eI2.88934@ruti.visi.com>
Message-ID: <944rm3$dg4$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

In article <Kvl96.137$eI2.88934 at ruti.visi.com>,
  grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards) wrote:
> Where does set_interrupt come from?

You didn't read my post. The second sentence after:
"Unfortunately, I don't see such a facility in the
library." I was describing what I want, not what is
there. I share your disappointment.

Russell


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http://www.deja.com/


From chris at 2s2iNO_SPAM.com  Sun Jan 28 09:21:26 2001
From: chris at 2s2iNO_SPAM.com (Chris)
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 09:21:26 -0500
Subject: "print" strange with Sybase module
References: <3A70163A.10D995@schlund.de> <94q0f6$lu5$1@news.cybercity.dk> <vHOc6.27482$DB1.273597@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com> <9518u5$1rk0$1@news.cybercity.dk> <_LVc6.9609$Qb7.1426225@newsb.telia.net>
Message-ID: <kUVc6.35673$oz1.279831@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>

Erwin & Fredrik -

Thank you both very much.  Your responses have shed significant light into
dark areas for me!

Chris


Fredrik Lundh <fredrik at effbot.org> wrote in message
news:_LVc6.9609$Qb7.1426225 at newsb.telia.net...
> Erwin S. Andreasen wrote:
> > AFAICS, there is no way to turn the buffering to be line-based on an
existing
> > file object (it might be an idea for a future release?). You could do
> > something like:
> >
> > sys.stdout = os.fdopen(os.dup(sys.stdout.fileno()), 'w', 1)
> >
> > which would reopen standard output as a line-buffered (the 1) stream,
> > i.e. every time you have written a full line to the file object, it's
flushed
> > -- just like when you run the program on the console.
>
> here's a variant, which works for any kind of sys.stdout:
>
>     class UnbufferedStream:
>         def __init__(self, stream):
>             self.stream = stream
>         def write(self, data):
>             self.stream.write(data)
>             self.stream.flush()
>         def __getattr__(self, attr):
>             # delegate everything else
>             return getattr(self.stream, attr)
>
>     sys.stdout = UnbufferedStream(sys.stdout)
>
> Cheers /F
>
> <!-- (the eff-bot guide to) the standard python library:
> http://www.pythonware.com/people/fredrik/librarybook.htm
> -->
>
>
>




From sholden at holdenweb.com  Fri Jan  5 08:11:27 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 08:11:27 -0500
Subject: Migrating to perl?
References: <3Fa56.4580$of7.216286@news1.atl> <mailman.978670867.31055.python-list@python.org> <V%c56.4648$of7.221797@news1.atl>
Message-ID: <BLj56.3858$XZ5.132068@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com>

Joel Ricker <joejava at dragonat.net> wrote in message
news:V%c56.4648$of7.221797 at news1.atl...
> Wow, great answers for a probably frequent question.  Thanks everyone!
>
> Skip Montanaro wrote in message ...
> >
[...]
>
> Sounds great.  Perl always seems to be very unix-centric which tends to
bug
> me.  Only one book I've gotten on Perl went for a cross-platform approach
to
> perl (Perl Black Book).  Another question.  I just downloaded Activestates
> build for Python.  I went there first since I've got accustomed to their
> services.  Is a good build?  As good as Pythonlabs?  Better?
>
ActivePython is pretty much the "BeOpen 2.0" release of Python plus the Mark
Hammond Win32 extensions, with the added bonus that the help files have been
munged into a Windows .chm (HTML help) file.  It's great stuff, and the only
distribution of 2.0 I've found necessary to install on Windows (given that
on Windows, unlike Unix, I don't compile Python from source).

> >Your comment about Perls multitude of contexts really rings true with me.
> I
> >use Perl in the guise of Mason these days to maintain the Mojam.com
> website.
> >(Mason is great, by the way.  I just wish it used Python. ;-) A couple
> weeks
> >ago I thought I had all the reference stuff figured out, but then this
> >morning it all came crashing down on me (again).  Ah well, back to the
> >perlref manpage...
>
>
> No kidding.  I just but Object Oriented Perl by Damian Conway and I
thought
> I had the idea and concepts down and by the end of the third chapter it
all
> came crashing down.  Things are working that shouldn't and vice versa.  I
> probably need to take a look at the perlref manpage myself but I'm
> suspecting it may be the new build from Activeperl but I'm getting too
> fustrated to dig into it.  I could post for help but I already know the
> answer that I'll be given:
>
> perldoc perltoot
>
Well, you'll often get links to web pages in replies on this newsgroup, but
the "eat s**t and die, m*****f**ker"-style hostility observed in other
groups from time to time very rarely happens in c.l.py.  I did consider
posting such a response to your question (as a joke...) followed by some
helpful advice, but

a) it goes against the grain of this group, and I would have doubtless
needed asbestos pants myself then, and

b) I knew you'd get good advice from the many worthies who are the mainstay
of the group.

[...]
>
> Joel

By now you should be running Python happily.  I was a Perl user once, but
when I came to the object-oriented mess I said "blerch" and decided to look
for a sensible language.  I've found that, and more, in Python, and wouldn't
consider Perl nowadays.  This is NOT to say that Perl doesn't have its
uses -- as the timbot pointed out, it has "optimized the snot" out of r-e
pattern matching.  But it began to seem as though almost any random string
had meaning in Perl, and I don't have time for that sort of nonsense.

Good luck.

I-used-to-program-in-Perl-but-i'm-all-right-now-ly y'rs  - steve







From matt at virtualspectator.com  Sat Jan 20 17:04:18 2001
From: matt at virtualspectator.com (matt)
Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 11:04:18 +1300
Subject: interesting bound-built-in-method technique
In-Reply-To: <slrn96k1m1.7c9.quinn@chunder.ugcs.caltech.edu>
References: <9476k6$d55$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <slrn96k1m1.7c9.quinn@chunder.ugcs.caltech.edu>
Message-ID: <01012111062403.00900@localhost.localdomain>

On Sun, 21 Jan 2001, Quinn Dunkan wrote:
> On Thu, 18 Jan 2001 16:46:01 GMT, Chris Ryland <cpr at emsoftware.com> wrote:
> >Reading the Quixote sources taught me an interesting little "hack"
> >using bound-built-in methods:
> >
> >>>> m = {'foo': 1, 'bar': 0}.has_key
> >>>> m('foo')
> >1
> >>>> m('bar')
> >0
> >
> >Is this a common idiom in Python? Very clever for turning a dictionary
> >lookup into a functional form.
> >
> >Are there other clever but generally obscure idia? (Idioms? ;-)
> 


except that your example has an error .....  m('bar') should return 1 since
your bound method should return 'true', not the value of that item.

eg :

>>> m = {'foo':'one','bar':'two'}.has_key
>>> m('foo')
1
>>> m('bar')
1
>>>    



From gregj at pobox.com  Thu Jan 25 14:28:35 2001
From: gregj at pobox.com (Greg Jorgensen)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 19:28:35 GMT
Subject: removing duplicates from .csv files
References: <94ptre$uf0$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <94puol$v7q$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

I suggest Excel, unless you have to do this a lot. What I've done when
faced with this problem is import the file(s) into an Excel worksheet,
clean up the columns you care about (remove leading/trailing spaces,
normalize upper/lower case), and fix phone numbers, zip codes, etc. so
the punctuation is normalized (e.g. 800-555-1212 vs 800 555 1212). Next
sort the whole thing on one of the columns that will identify
duplicates--phone number is a good start. Add a colum that will flag
duplicates: in the second non-blank row of the new column enter:

  if(X2=X1,"*","")

Where X refers to the column in your worksheet. If you have blank phone
numbers your row numbers will be higher than 1 and 2, but you get the
idea. Copy this formula down to the end of the rows. Now you'll see a *
in any row where the phone number is the same as the previous row. You
can merge/correct the duplicate rows, then delete the ones you don't
want. Do this with all of the columns that may identify duplicates
until the data is clean.

If you will be doing this a lot it would be an interesting and non-
trivial programming problem in Python, or any language. There are
commercial programs that do de-duping/merging of name/address info, and
some of them are quite expensive.

--
Greg Jorgensen
Portland, Oregon, USA
gregj at pobox.com


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From smigowsky at dspace.de  Fri Jan 19 10:27:35 2001
From: smigowsky at dspace.de (Stefan Migowsky)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 16:27:35 +0100
Subject: AW: Python COM and DCOM.
Message-ID: <84257D042AA7D411B3F700D0B7DB9B7C13A90D@newsintern.dspace.de>

Hi, 

what kind of error did you get ? If it was E_ACCESSDENIED you should check
the launch and authentication permissions on the client computer with 
dcomcnfg.exe. The example in the WIN32 book was running probably DCOM with a
W95
client and there are no security issues. 

  Stefan


-----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
Von: Syver Enstad [mailto:syver at NOSPAMcyberwatcher.com]
Gesendet: Freitag, 19. Januar 2001 12:49
An: python-list at python.org
Betreff: Python COM and DCOM.


I am having a bit of a problem getting a python COM object to work over
DCOM.

As far as I can see I've done exactly what is proposed in the Python on
Win32 book. But the object is started on the local machine, when using
win32com.client.Dispatch or the default instance creation methods in other
languages such as JScript with ASP and C++. It seems like DCOM works when
using the DispatchEx to explicitly choose the machine to run on but not
else.

Help very much appreciated, thank you.


-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list



From ullrich at math.okstate.edu  Mon Jan 22 09:51:19 2001
From: ullrich at math.okstate.edu (David C. Ullrich)
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 14:51:19 GMT
Subject: pyXML support for XSL tranformations??
References: <rtga6.18098$bb.708443@news1.rdc1.tx.home.com> <94d1tj$6sa$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <3a6aef10.3738521@nntp.sprynet.com> <p6qk87o7hqb.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <3a6c4800.3297821@nntp.sprynet.com>

On 21 Jan 2001 21:50:04 +0100, Martin von Loewis
<loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de> wrote:

>ullrich at math.okstate.edu (David C. Ullrich) writes:
>
>> I have the 4Thought XSL stuff from a little while ago. When I 
>> installed it I had to replace the current (1.5.2) Python xml.dom
>> with one that came with 4Thought, which I gather was an
>> older version. I didn't like this but I did it and it works fine.
>
>In Python 1.5.2, there was no xml.dom - so I doubt you had replaced
>the Python xml.dom. 

Right. I actually meant the xml.dom from what seems to be called
"the Python xml-sig distribution". (Or what was in any case
called that at that time...)

>What you might have replaced was some xml.dom from
>some PyXML; whether it was older or new would much depend on what
>PyXML version you actually had.
>
>> Q: Does the current 4Thought XSL stuff get along a little
>> more _cleanly_ with Python? (I actually haven't got around
>> to getting Python 2.0 precisely because it took a little
>> tweaking to get the XSL going in 1.5.2...)
>
>The current 4Suite release contains a copy of PyXML 0.6.3, enhanced by
>a few patches that will only appear in PyXML 0.6.4; you should use the
>PyXML version that comes with 4Suite.

Thanks.

>Regards,
>Martin
>



From aahz at panix.com  Sun Jan  7 13:27:20 2001
From: aahz at panix.com (Aahz Maruch)
Date: 7 Jan 2001 10:27:20 -0800
Subject: boolean xor
Message-ID: <93ace8$nmo$1@panix3.panix.com>

I need a boolean (not bit-wise) xor function.  I've got the following
function, but my logic skills are rusty enough that I'm wondering if
this is the "right" way to do it (I've validated that it produces the
correct outputs, at least):

def xor(a,b):
    return not ( (a and b) or (not (a or b)) )
-- 
                      --- Aahz (Copyright 2001 by aahz at pobox.com)

Androgynous poly kinky vanilla queer het    <*>     http://www.rahul.net/aahz/
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6

"This is Usenet.  We're all masturbating in public places."  -DH


From m.faassen at vet.uu.nl  Wed Jan 10 08:59:55 2001
From: m.faassen at vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen)
Date: 10 Jan 2001 13:59:55 GMT
Subject: Web devel with python. Whats the best route?
References: <mailman.978910629.6814.python-list@python.org> <93cqvi0191h@news1.newsguy.com> <mailman.978985688.26505.python-list@python.org> <93dfft077p@news1.newsguy.com> <mailman.979000510.4052.python-list@python.org> <slrn95ltl8.45d.scarblac@pino.selwerd.nl> <93f4q7$ji4$1@newshost.accu.uu.nl> <90259B539rcamesz@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <93hpsr$k1k$2@newshost.accu.uu.nl>

Robert Amesz <rcameszREMOVETHIS at dds.removethistoo.nl> wrote:
> Martijn Faassen wrote:

>> [Snip]
>>
>>Dus, voorwaards met dat Nederlands!
>       --------^-

> Well, one can but hope...

Een anglisme. Ik tiep ook veel Engels. :)

Groeten,

Martijn
-- 
History of the 20th Century: WW1, WW2, WW3?
No, WWW -- Could we be going in the right direction?


From root at rainerdeyke.com  Thu Jan 18 21:50:02 2001
From: root at rainerdeyke.com (Rainer Deyke)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 02:50:02 GMT
Subject: Why is "as" not a keyword?
References: <3A679717.1328@loop.com>
Message-ID: <uXN96.68938$ge4.26312758@news2.rdc2.tx.home.com>

"Jesse W" <jessw at loop.com> wrote in message news:3A679717.1328 at loop.com...
> Most people know about the functionality of the import statement that
> lets you import something under a differnt name.  It uses the word "as"
> to tell the interpreter.  Why is "as" not a keyword?  Other flag parts
> of commands are keywords, like "in", or "from". Why not "as"?
> Currently, it seems to me to be confusing when you type
> import foo as bar
>  in IDLE, and import lights up as a keyword, but "as", which has to be
> there and is clearly part of the syntax, does not.  If this question has
> been answered already, pardon me; I have not seen the answer anywhere.

There are two issues here: whether or not 'as' should be a keyword, and
whether or not IDLE should highlight it.

On the first issue: 'as' was added to the language fairly recently.  There
could still be legacy code which uses 'as' as a variable name.  If 'as' was
a keyword, this code would break.  The way things currently are, legacy code
merely becomes confusing.

On the second issue: I think it should, personally.  It would be even if
IDLE only highlighted 'as' where it is used as a keyword.  For example, in
'import as as as', only the middle 'as' should be highlighted.  But I don't
use IDLE, so it's really a non-issue to me.


--
Rainer Deyke (root at rainerdeyke.com)
Shareware computer games           -           http://rainerdeyke.com
"In ihren Reihen zu stehen heisst unter Feinden zu kaempfen" - Abigor




From tjreedy at udel.edu  Mon Jan 29 14:07:49 2001
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 14:07:49 -0500
Subject: "in" for dicts (was: Python 2.1 function attributes)
References: <mailman.980770835.14745.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <954f49$b3k$1@news.udel.edu>

> The only reason to like .xreadlines() is speed -- but, again, that's
reason enough.

Comparers of Perl and Python constantly notice that Perl is (was?) faster
in its equivalent of the new 'for l in f.xreadlines()'.  My first thought
was 'hope this is enough faster to quiet some of the noise.

Python won't be the first system to optimize a common 'benchmark'.






From shochet at hotmail.com  Tue Jan 23 15:05:24 2001
From: shochet at hotmail.com (shochet at hotmail.com)
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 20:05:24 GMT
Subject: += return value
Message-ID: <94ko5t$e5n$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

I am confused with the return values of the augmented assignment
opertators. When redefining them in a class, what should they return?
Coming from a C++ background, I assumed returning None (aka void) would
suffice, but it looks like you need to return self (?)

class MyInt:
    def __init__(self,value):
        self.value = value
    def __iadd__(self, other):
        self.value = self.value + other.value
        return None

f = MyInt(1)
g = MyInt(2)
f+=g

f is now None, not a MyInt with a value of 3 as I expected.

So that is fine, returning self in __iadd__ does the trick, but now all
the C++ code I have wrappers for that return void do not work. Does
this appear broken to anybody else? Why do these operators need any
return value? It would seem enough simply to set the object's internal
state.

Even stranger is:
x = 2
x+=1
 ...does not return anything but it works!?


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From emile at fenx.com  Sun Jan 14 12:37:34 2001
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 09:37:34 -0800
Subject: how do i disable buffered output, like Perl's '$|=1'?
References: <979490967.23219.0.pluto.d4ee691b@news.demon.nl>
Message-ID: <93so5m$biirv$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>

I'm not sure what the perl code means, but perhaps what
you're looking for is the '-u' parameter to python:  eg
python -u myscript.py

HTH

--

Emile van Sebille
emile at fenx.com
-------------------


"floR" <flor_pino at hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:979490967.23219.0.pluto.d4ee691b at news.demon.nl...
> I can't find anywhere how I can disable 'buffered output',
or whatever it is
> called.
> In Perl, you simply say $|=1, but in Python?
> Can anyone help me?
>
> TIA,
> Rolf Raven
>
>




From joejava at dragonat.net  Fri Jan  5 00:30:05 2001
From: joejava at dragonat.net (Joel Ricker)
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 00:30:05 -0500
Subject: Migrating to perl?
References: <3Fa56.4580$of7.216286@news1.atl> <mailman.978670867.31055.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <V%c56.4648$of7.221797@news1.atl>

Wow, great answers for a probably frequent question.  Thanks everyone!

Skip Montanaro wrote in message ...
>
>    Joel> Are the modules and add-ons as good as perl (ie, Database -- I'm
>    Joel> primarily interested in MySQL, CGI, Graphics).
>
>I use MySQL all the time from Python.  It's pretty straightforward:
>
>    import MySQLdb
>    conn = MySQLdb.Connection(...)
>    c = conn.cursor()
>    c.execute("select id,name from performers where name like "Paul%")
>    for (pid,name) in c.fetchall():
>        print pid, name


I'm not sure about what the cursor() method does but I follow the rest.  A
prepare statement maybe?  But I follow the rest of you code and it looks
nice and simple.  Yea!

>There is a CGI module that's also fairly easy to use, though it is
>undergoing some close scrutiny by the experts to see if it can be improved
>upon.  There are also a number of CGI replacements like FastCGI, PyApache,
>mod_python and mod_snake (the last three being mod_perl analogs).


I thought of the question about security and the need for taint modes but
then I realized since there may not be system calls like `del *.*` there
might not be a need for it.  I'm sure that if Python is in general use as a
CGI language then those issues have been cleared up.  Are there any thing
you have to watch for like running in taint mode in perl?

>"Graphics" covers a multitude of things, so I can only guess what you might
>be interested in.  There are Python bindings for VTK
>(http://www.kitware.com/) if you are looking for sci-viz and 3d rendering
>sorts of things.  I believe there is a gnuplot interface module floating
>around.  PythonWare (http://www.pythonware.com/) developed and distributes
>PIL (the Python Imaging Library).  I believe there's something called (I
>think) Piddle for doing device-indepndent 2d stuff.


Yes it is rather vague.  Opps.  My main reason is I'm working on a web based
game and need to build a map image dynamically.  Its a hex based map and I
worked hard with the help of  geometry expert on another group to make it
work right.  I would hate to have to build a module like that from scratch,
especially since graphic file standards are not exactly my forte.  I only
have a vague understanding of their inner workings.

>Python's infrastructure for module distribution and installation is not as
>mature as Perl's CPAN, but there you can search the Vaults of Parnassus
>(http://www.vex.net/parnassus/) for third-party modules and there are
>packages like distutils that are moving things in the right direction.  The
>vast majority are easily installed.
>
>Python is also somewhat more portable that Perl.  There are fully
>functioning Windows and Mac ports.  The lag time between the release of a
>new Unix version and corresponding Windows and Mac versions is pretty short
>(generally a couple weeks to a month at most).


Sounds great.  Perl always seems to be very unix-centric which tends to bug
me.  Only one book I've gotten on Perl went for a cross-platform approach to
perl (Perl Black Book).  Another question.  I just downloaded Activestates
build for Python.  I went there first since I've got accustomed to their
services.  Is a good build?  As good as Pythonlabs?  Better?

>Your comment about Perls multitude of contexts really rings true with me.
I
>use Perl in the guise of Mason these days to maintain the Mojam.com
website.
>(Mason is great, by the way.  I just wish it used Python. ;-) A couple
weeks
>ago I thought I had all the reference stuff figured out, but then this
>morning it all came crashing down on me (again).  Ah well, back to the
>perlref manpage...


No kidding.  I just but Object Oriented Perl by Damian Conway and I thought
I had the idea and concepts down and by the end of the third chapter it all
came crashing down.  Things are working that shouldn't and vice versa.  I
probably need to take a look at the perlref manpage myself but I'm
suspecting it may be the new build from Activeperl but I'm getting too
fustrated to dig into it.  I could post for help but I already know the
answer that I'll be given:

perldoc perltoot

BTW, I noticed when I first looked around this newsgroup there was a mention
of a couple of options of using Perl modules with Python.  Minotaur I think
it was called.  Could you use that to wrap Python around Mason?  I agree,
its a nice package.   I really don't have a problem with perls packages but
writing my own or doing anything off the beaten path is getting to be too
much like work -- making the hard things harder.

Joel





From edward.collins at unisys.com  Thu Jan 25 18:43:33 2001
From: edward.collins at unisys.com (Ed Collins)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 15:43:33 -0800
Subject: How to spawn another program?
Message-ID: <94qdjl$5hk$1@mail.pl.unisys.com>

Is there a way in python to launch another program,
like a batch file or other executable?

edward.collins at unisys.com





From erwin at andreasen.com  Fri Jan 26 17:15:51 2001
From: erwin at andreasen.com (Erwin S. Andreasen)
Date: 26 Jan 2001 22:15:51 GMT
Subject: "print" strange with Sybase module
References: <3A70163A.10D995@schlund.de> <94q0f6$lu5$1@news.cybercity.dk> <3A713DE8.592E8BDE@schlund.de>
Message-ID: <94ssun$25ua$1@news.cybercity.dk>

On Fri, 26 Jan 2001 10:05:44 +0100, Carsten Gaebler wrote:

>If I give Python the "-u" option the following happens:
>
>[cg at cg test]$ ./sqltest.py | tee /tmp/test.txt
>Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "./sqltest.py", line 12, in ?
>    print row
>IOError: [Errno 32] Broken pipe
>
>
>Broken pipe?? BTW it's the same with "|less", "|more", "|gzip" etc. I'm
>confused.

Indeed -- "broken pipe" means that the other end of the connection has been
closed (i.e. the end of the pipe that is with tee) at the time the writer
sends some data down the pipe. And that's just weird.

Does it happen if you run some other shell? Or as perhaps another user?


-- 
=======================================================================
<erwin at andreasen.com>           Herlev, Denmark       Software Designer
<URL:http://www.andreasen.org/>       <*>         LASAT^WEicon Networks
=======================================================================


From amk at mira.erols.com  Thu Jan 11 21:40:17 2001
From: amk at mira.erols.com (A.M. Kuchling)
Date: 12 Jan 2001 02:40:17 GMT
Subject: BUG Python 2.0 FreeBSD compile problem
References: <mailman.979245132.20625.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrn95sse8.gu.amk@207-172-146-204.s204.tnt3.ann.va.dialup.rcn.com>

On Thu, 11 Jan 2001 14:31:26 -0600 (CST), 
	Chris Watson <chris at voodooland.net> wrote:
>Python is IN the ports tree. And someone (the maintainer of that port) had
>already gone to the trouble to patch it and insure it compiles well and
>added the other nice features of "ports" in FreeBSD. So there was no need

And this points up an annoying thing about FreeBSD; patches are made
to get Python to compile on the platform, but those changes aren't
contributed *back* to the original Python source tree.  How can one
find out what changes were made to a package in the ports tree?

--amk


From quinn at bolivar.ugcs.caltech.edu  Mon Jan 29 14:50:41 2001
From: quinn at bolivar.ugcs.caltech.edu (Quinn Dunkan)
Date: 29 Jan 2001 19:50:41 GMT
Subject: curly-brace-aphobic?
References: <3A74EBD6.3C87FD15@seebelow.org> <slrn97a9fu.7sf.clgonsal@keeshah.penguinpowered.com>
Message-ID: <slrn97bicg.8va.quinn@bolivar.ugcs.caltech.edu>

On Mon, 29 Jan 2001 08:01:55 GMT, C.Laurence Gonsalves
<clgonsal at keeshah.penguinpowered.com> wrote:
>On Sun, 28 Jan 2001 22:04:38 -0600, Grant Griffin
><not.this at seebelow.org> wrote:
>>Hi Gang,
>>
>>I'm sure this has been asked a thousand times, but I haven't seen it
>>asked lately (or ever <wink>).
>>
>>Why does Python use square braces ([]) instead of curly braces ({})
>>when accessing dictionaries?

While sequences and mappings are different, access is the same.  Think of it
this way:

import operator
a = [0, 1, 2]
d = {1: 'a', 2: 'b'}
t = (9, 8, 7)
for obj in a, d, t:
    print operator.__getitem__(obj, 1)

>Actually, the thing that's always bugged me is that Python makes a
>distinction between subscripting (__getattr__) and function calls
>(__call__). Mathematically speaking, a dictionary is really just a
>function that maps from 'keys' to 'values'.

Even haskellers usually don't implement finite maps and arrays as functions
(though they usually acknowledge that would be the elegant solution).

So even in a language where functions are the major important element,
efficiency dictates a data-oriented view.  And python is pretty data-oriented
anyway, so a functional representation would be out of character.  And
mutation is important in python, while a functional representation gives no
opportunity for that.

>It always seems silly to me that given:
>
>    m = {'one': 1, 'two':2}
>    l = ['two', 'one']
>
>one can't write:
>
>    map(m, l)

What if 'm' implemented both __call__ and __getitem__?  If you really like the
functional thing:

import UserDict
class FDict(UserDict.UserDict):
    def __call__(self, key):
        return self[key]
    def __add__(self, other): # we could define just a method, but functions
                              # don't have methods but '+' is a method too :)
        # incidentally, I think this indicates a bug in UserDict, which should
        # use isinstance to avoid breaking when inherited
        d = self.data.copy()
        d.update(other.copy())
        return d

Of course, to be consistent here, the only way to change an FDict is to write:

d = old_dict + {'new': 'changes'}

... which forces one to introduce the bizarre concept of adding a function to
a literal, and is also not the most efficient thing in the world, considering
that the usual use of python dicts is incremental mutation, and python
naturally has no optimizations to detect when a value is unused afterwards and
switch to mutation in that case.

>I'm not sure why you need to be reminded whether something is a sequence
>or a dictionary.

Another way to think of it is that 'sequence' is an iteration pattern.
'dictionary' is a data structure.  For example, eiffel has seperate iterator
classes that capture common iteration patterns, which can be applied by any
class that implements their routines (or 'effects' their 'deferreds', if you
like).


From csrabak at uol.com.br  Sat Jan 27 11:07:48 2001
From: csrabak at uol.com.br (Cesar Rabak)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 14:07:48 -0200
Subject: Problem Install UPDATE
References: <mailman.980609011.17703.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3A72F254.822246C7@uol.com.br>


Ben Ocean wrote:
> 
> Hi;
> Okay, I see how you traced back the error. I took off the angle brackets in
> 
> # include linux/errno.h
> 
> and got this error message:
> 
> /usr/include/bits/errno.h:25: `#include' expects "FILENAME" or <FILENAME>

Humm it seems that this FILENAME (and perhaps the whole errno.h at this
location) is built by a script which may be failing in the generation of
this name.


> 
> I tried
> 
> # include linux/errno.h <FILENAME>
> 
> and
> 
> # include linux/errno.h FILENAME
> 
> but maybe it would like a real filename <g>. Got the same error message.
> Where to now?

You must to figure out one of:

1) Why the scripts/Makefile/etc. did generate the correct line (and the
name in it);

2) Discover what is the include file supposed to be there and write the
appropriate filename (and with the appropriate quoting ["" or <>]).

HTH

Cesar

> TIA,
> BenO


From dsh8290 at rit.edu  Mon Jan 22 19:17:58 2001
From: dsh8290 at rit.edu (D-Man)
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 19:17:58 -0500
Subject: Jython on the i400 (was: Python and Industry, IBM I'm afraid)
In-Reply-To: <31575A892FF6D1118F5800600846864D5B1723@intrepid>; from SBrunning@trisystems.co.uk on Thu, Jan 18, 2001 at 08:57:15AM +0000
References: <31575A892FF6D1118F5800600846864D5B1723@intrepid>
Message-ID: <20010122191758.A17166@harmony.cs.rit.edu>

On Thu, Jan 18, 2001 at 08:57:15AM +0000, Simon Brunning wrote:
| > From:	Pete [SMTP:p at mjs400.co.uk]
| > 
| > Don't forget to call it the i400, or iSeries 400, these things matter.
| > Especially as this machine seems misunderstood by those outside of the
| > clique.
|  

[snip]

| If you just say i400, people will think that you are talking about something
| running one of those nasty *nix OSs. Or worse, one of those *really* nasty
| Micros~1 OSs.

Actually, i400 sounds to me more like a new kind of iMac . . .

:-)
-D



From jdnier at execpc.com  Fri Jan 26 16:12:06 2001
From: jdnier at execpc.com (David Niergarth)
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 15:12:06 -0600
Subject: Use of os.popen3() under WinNT4
Message-ID: <3a71e809$0$7160$272ea4a1@news.execpc.com>

I would like to be able to run a command in a subprocess under WinNT4 and
read/write (as appropriate) to stdout, stdin, and stderr. I'm trying to
understand how to use os.popen3(). Perhaps I'm misunderstanding it's purpose
or it's behavior is different under NT? I'm using Python 2.0 so the old
Windows popen problem shouldn't be an issue.

In my current case, I want to run Ghostscript (gswin32c.exe) and need to be
able to write to the process and, hopefully, capture its stdout. In the
following example:

>>> import os
>>> command = 'gswin32c -help'
>>> child_stdout, child_stdin, child_stderr = os.popen3(command, mode='b')

child_stdout ends up as a file descriptor opened in write mode, while
child_stdin is a file descriptor opened in read mode; in and out seems
backwards here. In the above command, Ghostscript prints a help message and
quits. To get at the help message, you need to read from stdin.

>>> child_stdin.read()
"6.01 (2000-03-17)\012Copyright (C) 2000 Aladdin... [etc.]"

>>> child_stderr.read()
''

So is it just an issue of perspective? (I found this confusing.)

More importantly, if you run a command that doesn't immediately terminate,
trying to read from child_stdin or child_stderr before doing a
child_stdout.close() causes a hang. (The only way I've found to recover is
to kill the parent Python process.) Is there a way to tell if the process
has terminated before trying a .read() or, better yet, is there a way to
signal or force the process to finish?

Any elaborations or pointers to code examples would be appreciated. I'll
sumarize if I get many responses.

Thanks,

--David Niergarth
jdnier at execpc.com



From hwanjoyu at uiuc.edu  Mon Jan 29 18:40:54 2001
From: hwanjoyu at uiuc.edu (Hwanjo Yu)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 17:40:54 -0600
Subject: Q: function parameter
Message-ID: <bcnd6.153$pT.3463@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu>

Hi,
It seems that the python's function parameters are passed call-by-value as a
default.
How to make it call-by-reference, so it allows the parameters to be changed
after calling a function ?
Thanks in advance.






From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Thu Jan 18 11:42:12 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 17:42:12 +0100
Subject: python compiled to native in less than a year?
References: <kcF86.6006$J%.594457@news.flash.net> <Pine.GSO.4.21.0101151106200.7702-100000@z.glue.umd.edu> <8pF86.6015$J%.595435@news.flash.net> <0luc6toovfccbqspkvc0dkqkuc5dck7u51@4ax.com> <946coc130tl@news2.newsguy.com> <qcE96.8755$J%.858944@news.flash.net>
Message-ID: <9476fp015jj@news2.newsguy.com>

"scott hathaway" <slhath at flash.net> wrote in message
news:qcE96.8755$J%.858944 at news.flash.net...
> All the .NET languages will be translated to IL and then from IL to native
> code...including python and perl.  I am at VSLive 2001 this week (no
flames,
> please) and ActiveState gave a demo of Visual Perl, showing how a class
> written in it (living in a .dll - now called an assembly) could be called
> from VB.  This will be the same for Python.

Sure.  But, as I said, that's not necessarily related to optimization, if
what gets 'compiled' is actually a sequence of subroutine calls to the
interpreter runtime.


> This will be huge for Python - whether you like MS or not.  I think this
is
> awesome.  I will be able to use Python to do "real" development in
Windows.

Funny, I do lots of "real" Python development in Windows today, already.

> Programmers like me have a very difficult time learning how to do a gui
with
> wxWindows or Tkinter.  It is much easier to paint the controls on a form.
> Now, I will be able to do that and use Python as the language!

I basically do that today (with Dynamic HTML, Active/X controls, etc), but,
yes, I guess .NET webforms can be seen as an incremental improvement to
that.

In general, .NET promises a lot of incremental improvements that, in the
aggregate, can indeed make things a lot better -- putting all languages on
a playing-field that's much more level than of yore, for example, so that
languages can be chosen per-component based on the abilities of each
language rather than on peripheral issues related to how well they can
interact with the system.  I'm glad that Python is a part of that.  But
it's not so _drastically_ different from what I already get today with
COM and Automation -- just a little bit smoother.


> This is wonderful for anyone programming on Windows now, and will be even
> more wonderful as soon as someone converts IL to native on Linux.

In the meantime, I wouldn't hold my breat, but, rather, go for XPCOM
integration... remember that even if/when IL can be installed on Linux,
that doesn't mean all of the runtime parts will be there -- the GUI
ones, in particular.

> I think that this will be much more influential to Python than Jython.  I
> think it may be the new "preferred" way to use Python for many Windows
> developers.

If .NET takes off in proportion to what Microsoft's investing on it,
then, yes, it's quite likely that it will surpass COM as the main way
to integrate with Windows in the next 2-3 years; and, so far, the MS
.NET teams have already surprised me a few times with the speed at
which they've delivered reasonably-solid betas -- if this keeps up,
then the technical SW portions of the equation, at least, will be in
place in time.  .NET has more vulnerabilities that are not really in
MS techies' hands -- how fast is broadband net access spreading, will
people really upgrade to Office 10 on a subscription model rather than
keep using their good old fully-paid-for copies of existing Office
releases [transitioning from a sales-based business model to one based
on subscription is troublesome -- we've already completed *our* own
transition, true pioneers that we are:-), and the post-transition
place is a great one to be, but the transition itself WAS hard], etc.

Technically, .NET deserves success -- so far.  But there are many
issues with its pathway to success that are still question-marks.

Still, it's _great_ to know that Python will be in on the game,
whether .NET floats or sinks!-)  Just don't expect to get some
magical performance boost by 'compiled to native' mantras...!-)


Alex





From rzantow at my-deja.com  Mon Jan 29 08:56:04 2001
From: rzantow at my-deja.com (rzantow at my-deja.com)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 13:56:04 GMT
Subject: importing glut
References: <mailman.980759795.2106.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <953spi$nt4$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

In article <mailman.980759795.2106.python-list at python.org>,
  =?iso-8859-1?q?ABDENOUR=20HADID?= <hadidab at yahoo.fr> wrote:
> hello
> I am just beginner in programing with python. I
> installed python and pyopengl on win98platform.
> when I tried to import glut.py i receive the error
> message :"importing the GLUT Library failed. the
> GLUT32.DLL file should be on your path...."
>
> I see the file Glut.py in the directory
> c://python20//OpenGl//
>
> I tried to import :OpenGl.Glut  but same problem.
> i added the c://python20//OpenGl// to Path..always
> same problem...
>
> so, can you help me..
>
> thanks
>
Check out reality.sgi.com/mjk/glut3/glut3.html . Or Google
search for other links.

--
Pythons, unlike some other snakes, do have hindlimbs, but they never
develop beyond vestigial stumps. The arrest of limb development is
due to a failure of the sonic hedgehog signalling system ...


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From tim.one at home.com  Wed Jan 24 16:02:34 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 16:02:34 -0500
Subject: Random and whrandom
In-Reply-To: <94mjv402318@news2.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCEEPJIKAA.tim.one@home.com>

[posted & mailed]

[Alex Martelli, sorts out the random/whrandom mess -- thanks!]
> ...
> The situation might be clearer if Python had MANY random
> number generation modules in its standard library -- one
> as the abstract/high-level thingy, and the other N-1 as
> specific implementations for specific needs.

The "abstract random number generator interface" stuff has been removed from
the 2.1a1 docs.  This is a case where an eager contributor launched into a
Grand Generalization that Guido accepted, then vanished from the face of the
earth immediately thereafter, and nobody else cared enough to take over.
Python's core randomization facilities are too meager to justify all this
conceptual hair, and newbies have been stumbling over the overly-complex
docs ever since ("Define the universe.  Give 3 examples." <wink>).

[kevin parks]
>> It would be great if the random whrandom poop could be cleaned up in
>> future versions of python. One clear module.

[Alex]
> ONE module, I think, would not be enough -- the distinction
> between abstract and concrete IS important enough, after all,
> to be worth a little bit of effort.

It's been counter-productive so far, so got dropped.  "The best" pure-Python
suite of state-of-the-art RNGs is Ivan Frohne's rv.py, and if someone wants
to revive an ARNGI crusade they would do well to mimic his excellent design.
Alas, while it's still possible to find rv's *docs* on the web, I can't find
the actual code anymore (and the Parnassus link is dead).

> ...
> Ideally, too, whrandom should be renamed to _whrandom, the
> leading underline indicating it's meant for internal use
> and not of direct user interest;

We can't, at least not for a few years:  too many programs import it under
the old name.  whrandom's *docs* will get moved into the Obsolete Module
section (where you can also find "rand").

> before this 'deprecation' is done, though, I dearly hope
> checkpoint/restart needs will be considered in the abstract
> RNG interface.

The ARNGI is gone.  Deprecation of whrandom.py is independent of adding C/R
to random.py's bag of tricks.  I agree this would be a good trick to add.

sourceforge-is-open-for-patches-ly y'rs  - tim




From tim.one at home.com  Sun Jan 28 16:45:27 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 16:45:27 -0500
Subject: SIGs
In-Reply-To: <951p9a0mn@news2.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCKENJILAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Alex Martelli]
> Which reminds me -- is it just me, or does the page at
> http://www.python.org/sigs/ REALLY state that EVERY
> Python SIG has expired except catalog-sig (with 5 more
> months' life to go) and the two perennials meta-sig and
> pythonmac-sig?

Yup, that's what it says.  CNRI still hosts python.org but nobody at CNRI
ever updates it.  The only person outside of CNRI with sufficient access to
change anything there is Guido, and he just doesn't have time to keep the
site up to date by himself.  This will remain the case until some agreement
is reached with CNRI about moving python.org to a different host.

sad-but-true-ly y'rs  - tim




From yoonseo at my-deja.com  Mon Jan 22 10:58:05 2001
From: yoonseo at my-deja.com (yoonseo at my-deja.com)
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 15:58:05 GMT
Subject: [Q] telnetlib
References: <mailman.980041104.13905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <94hla8$mmk$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

Dear Doug

This is the log of my telnet manual telnet session.
I intentionally hided host name and user name.
Hope you can find what I am doing wrong.

sy


========================================================

LOCAL_PROMPT$ telnet REMOTE_HOST_NAME
Trying 129.116.218.132...
Connected to REMOTE_HOST_NAME
Escape character is '^]'.


Cray UNICOS (aurora) (ttyp028)


                   The University of Texas at Austin
        Advanced Computing Center for Engineering and Science

                ***  UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS PROHIBITED  ***

ACCES staff may monitor and record user activity to detect unauthorized
access.  By using this system you are consenting to such observation.
----
Remote access via telnet, rlogin and ftp, for NPACI users or users coming in
from outside the University of Texas, is no longer supported on this system;
use secure shell and secure copy instead. Get more information on NPACI
security activities and ssh at http://www.npaci.edu/Security
----

login: USER_NAME
Password:

Active label set to : level0,none

Last successful login was : Mon Jan 22 09:46:36 from LOCAL_HOST_NAME
UNICOS 10.0.0.7  CRAY SV1-1A/16-16384 sn3002 (REMOTE_HOST_NAME)

--> SV1 information at http://www.hpc.utexas.edu.
--> SV1 manuals     at http://dynaweb.hpc.utexas.edu:8080/

Please send problem reports to:
        remark at hpc.utexas.edu           (UT Austin Users mail here)
        http://www.npaci.edu/Consult    (NPACI Users use this web page)

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
ACCT  SYS  Allocated  Used  AVAILABLE  Period  Updated	Status -------	--- 
--------- --------  ---------  ---------  ---------  ------ A-byaa  T3E 
20000  3806.57	16193.43  1Q01-4Q01  Sun_23:55	active A-byaa  SV1  62415 
3325.91  59089.09  4Q00-4Q01  Sun_23:55  active
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
TERM = (vt100) REMOTE_PROMPT% ls Bin  Lib  OUTPUT  README  dead.letter 
libtime.a  temp.txt REMOTE_PROMPT%

========================================================



In article <mailman.980041104.13905.python-list at python.org>,
  Doug Stanfield <DOUGS at oceanic.com> wrote:
> Just a guess, but you may not be following exactly the sequence of strings
> are exchanged when you telnet to this device.  Try to manually log in and
> copy the session to a followup.
>
> -Doug-
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: yoonseo at my-deja.com [mailto:yoonseo at my-deja.com]
> > Sent: Friday, January 19, 2001 10:01 AM
> > To: python-list at python.org
> > Subject: [Q] telnetlib
> >
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > I am trying to run commands on a remote computer using Python.
> > I think that using 'telnetlib' is the way to go, but I have trouble.
> > The following is the script that I wrote but it stops before
> > it reaches prompt, that is after 'TERM = (vt100) '.
> > Can somebody tell me what is wrong?
> >
> > Thanks in advance
> >
> > sy
> >
> >
> > --------------------------------------
> > import telnetlib
> >
> > HOST = 'host_name'
> > user = 'user_name'
> > pwd  = 'my_password'
> >
> > tn = telnetlib.Telnet(HOST)
> >
> > print tn.read_until('login: ')
> > tn.write(user+'\n')
> >
> > print tn.read_until('Password:')
> > tn.write(pwd+'\n')
> >
> > print tn.read_until('TERM = (vt100) ')
> > tn.write('\n')
> >
> > print tn.read_until('% ')
> > tn.write('ls\n')
> >
> > print tn.read_until('% ')
> > tn.write('exit\n')
> >
> > print tn.read_all()
> > --------------------------------------
> >
> >
> > Sent via Deja.com
> > http://www.deja.com/
> > --
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> >
>
>


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From erno-news at erno.iki.fi  Wed Jan 17 12:33:36 2001
From: erno-news at erno.iki.fi (Erno Kuusela)
Date: 17 Jan 2001 19:33:36 +0200
Subject: How to close all files between fork and exec?
References: <yv27l3upooj.fsf@lionsp093.lion-ag.de>
Message-ID: <kuely2dqxb.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>

In article <yv27l3upooj.fsf at lionsp093.lion-ag.de>, Harald Kirsch
<kirschh at lionbioscience.com> writes:

| On some systems there is a constant like OPEN_MAX but I read that on
| recent Solaris versions there is no real limit to it.
| How do I get hold of the highest numbered open file descriptor, in
| particular in python?

a reasonable heuristic might be to try closing from 0 ... n
and break the loop when you've hit m EBADF errors in a row
(m=500?)

some systems have nonportable ways of finding out the open
fd numbers, like /proc/<pid>/fd/ in linux.

  -- erno


From phd at phd.pp.ru  Wed Jan 17 03:38:09 2001
From: phd at phd.pp.ru (Oleg Broytmann)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 11:38:09 +0300 (MSK)
Subject: Python2C
In-Reply-To: <87hf2zpchy.fsf@nirvana.sysfrog.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0101171137040.27174-100000@fep132.fep.ru>

On 16 Jan 2001, Guenther Starnberger wrote:
> the python2c homepage doesn't seem to work and the cvs version looks
> rather old.

   The home page is http://www.mudlib.org/~rassilon/p2c/ but it still holds
the same rather old version, and I think there is no development :(

Oleg.
----
     Oleg Broytmann            http://phd.pp.ru/            phd at phd.pp.ru
           Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN.




From MarkH at ActiveState.com  Thu Jan 18 13:09:47 2001
From: MarkH at ActiveState.com (Mark Hammond)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 18:09:47 GMT
Subject: Python training on east coast?
References: <B68C6B99.8E47%bobhicks@adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <947bh2$hug$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

In article <B68C6B99.8E47%bobhicks at adelphia.net>,
  Robert L Hicks <bobhicks at adelphia.net> wrote:
> Are there any Python training courses on the east coast?

I believe some can be found in both Sydney and Melbourne.

Unless of course you meant the east coast of some other country? ;-)


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From NoSpam at NoSpam.com  Wed Jan  3 00:16:08 2001
From: NoSpam at NoSpam.com (Tom)
Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 05:16:08 GMT
Subject: Electronic edition of 'The Standard Python Library'
References: <t7746.63812$59.17990421@news3.rdc1.on.home.com> <ZQf46.83865$df5.2962770@news1.crdva1.bc.home.com> <92tkm007t8@news1.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <sAy46.72687$59.20626824@news3.rdc1.on.home.com>

"Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:92tkm007t8 at news1.newsguy.com...
> "W.Izatt" <wayne.izatt at _fspam_myself.com> wrote in message
> news:ZQf46.83865$df5.2962770 at news1.crdva1.bc.home.com...
> > I had a nightmare getting my copy of this book to "work". My office is
> > behind a firewall, so of course the registration process would not work.
>
> Same here.
>
> > Repeated calls to Fatbrain (more than 10) did not produce results.
Emails
> > were replied to by bots.
>
> Identical experience here.

And that's why I didn't bother trying to contact Fatbrain when mine stopped
working.  I don't buy books so I can waste time with stuff like that.

Tom.

>
> > Don't buy from Fatbrain. I don't know about the others.
>
> I will heartily second this advice -- which *IS* a pity, because <F>'s
> book itself is SO darned useful.  But Fatbrain's "support" for the ebooks
> they sell appears to be repeatably abysmal.
>
>
> Alex
>
>
>




From jcollin at exis.net  Tue Jan 23 13:34:20 2001
From: jcollin at exis.net (Jay Collins)
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 13:34:20 -0500
Subject: news - nntp server
In-Reply-To: <3a6daab8@news.xtml.co.uk>
References: <3a6daab8@news.xtml.co.uk>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0101231333570.24971-100000@tarpon.exis.net>

On Tue, 23 Jan 2001, it was written:

>I'm trying to set up an NNTP/newsgroup server on an NT4 machine.
>
>What is the easiest way to do this please. Can Python help me?!

Why are you posting here? 



From grey at despair.rpglink.com  Thu Jan 18 16:49:32 2001
From: grey at despair.rpglink.com (Steve Lamb)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 21:49:32 -0000
Subject: I must be missing something obvious: os.path.isexecutable?
References: <slrn96enju.g1v.grey@teleute.rpglink.com>
Message-ID: <slrn96ep7c.g1v.grey@teleute.rpglink.com>

On Thu, 18 Jan 2001 21:22:06 -0000, Steve Lamb <grey at despair.rpglink.com> wrote:
>    I cannot, for the life of me, find a comparable call in Python to replace
>the -x call in Perl.

    OK, after further digging on deja I found a thread between Fredrik Lundh
and Lenny Self regarding using the os.stat() call with the stat macros.  Is
there an easier way?

-- 
         Steve C. Lamb         | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your
         ICQ: 5107343          | main connection to the switchboard of souls.
-------------------------------+---------------------------------------------


From amk at mira.erols.com  Mon Jan  1 12:05:39 2001
From: amk at mira.erols.com (A.M. Kuchling)
Date: 1 Jan 2001 17:05:39 GMT
Subject: Python bookstore revised
Message-ID: <slrn951f0h.go.amk@207-172-57-230.s230.tnt2.ann.va.dialup.rcn.com>

The PSA bookstore has been revised and given a new home at
www.amk.ca/bookstore/.  It's been updated to list the currently
available Python books, books in languages other than English, and
links to more reviews.  Please take a look.  Also, suggestions for
additional titles, book descriptions, or brief capsule reviews would
be very welcome.  

--amk



From waltonl at franklin.edu  Mon Jan 29 01:37:40 2001
From: waltonl at franklin.edu (Lynn Walton)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 00:37:40 -0600
Subject: Making a hyperlink in a text widget
Message-ID: <3A750FB4.1AC7A807@franklin.edu>

I read in the tk intro on text widgets that you can make hyperlinks in
text widgets by using the text.tag_bind method.

I'm wondering if anyone could share some code examples with me that
would do the following on a windows platform (98 and/or 2000) :
- display a URL (a file:///  so it opens a file on the local drive) in
the text widget  that when clicked on opens that file in the default
browser on that machine, or if that's too generic, opens Netscape 4.x if
installed as default browser.

TIA,
Lynn








From steve.menard at polyester.com  Fri Jan 12 16:33:31 2001
From: steve.menard at polyester.com (Steve Menard)
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 16:33:31 -0500
Subject: ZODB and Python 2.0
Message-ID: <93nta2$p59$1@newsmaster.axxent.ca>

My problem is simple : I need ZODB. But I also need Python 2.0's Unicode
handling so ....

The binaries for ZOPE require Python 1.5.2 .... And compiling from source is
a bit of a problem for me since I am on Windows and the setup scripts simply
do not work for me.

So finally, my question is this : Why isn;t ZODB available as a separate
package using the distutils?

Failing an answer to that question, has anyone build ZOPE for python 2.0 and
could send me the ZODB package and dependencies?

    Thanks in advance ....




From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sat Jan 20 07:42:58 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 13:42:58 +0100
Subject: Tabbing/Spaces
References: <20010120011201.72310F44E@mail.python.org> <mailman.979964962.24958.python-list@python.org> <n3aa6.7716$AH6.1213290@newsc.telia.net>
Message-ID: <94c14d0mdi@news2.newsguy.com>

"Fredrik Lundh" <fredrik at effbot.org> wrote in message
news:n3aa6.7716$AH6.1213290 at newsc.telia.net...
    [snip]
> > But surely there's a simple way to please both -- aren't
> > there de-tabbing filters I can use to substitute spaces for tabs
> > (or vice-versa)?  What _I_ find really irritating is that my code
> > usually winds up being a mixture of the two.
>
> I'm pretty sure your editor can do it for you (I'll leave
> it to the vim gurus to explain how).

The :retab command is what you use for this task in vim.

If you've set expandtabs to 1, :%retab will change all
tabs to the appropriate number of spaces (you can also
give it the tabstop size you want as an argument); if
you've set it to 0, :%retab! will insert tabs wherever
possible (again, you can pass tabstop size as argument).


Alex





From mwh21 at cam.ac.uk  Sun Jan 21 11:44:41 2001
From: mwh21 at cam.ac.uk (Michael Hudson)
Date: 21 Jan 2001 16:44:41 +0000
Subject: Unicode string output
References: <mailman.980094083.22572.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m37l3o26ti.fsf@atrus.jesus.cam.ac.uk>

"Alexander Kostyrkin" <avkost66 at f4.dion.ne.jp> writes:

> Surprisingly printing a unicode string that contains a Japanese kanji
> character raises an exception
> For example
> 
>     print u"\u55f4"
> UnicodeError: ASCII encoding error: ordinal not in range(128)
> 

Try

print u"\u55f4".encode('kanji')

though I don't know what should go in the place of 'kanji' - in fact,
I don't know if Python 2.0 shipped with any japanese codecs at all.

Not much help, I know...

Cheers,
M.

-- 
  languages shape the way we think, or don't.
                                        -- Erik Naggum, comp.lang.lisp


From fredrik at effbot.org  Tue Jan  2 17:00:47 2001
From: fredrik at effbot.org (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2001 22:00:47 GMT
Subject: Electronic edition of 'The Standard Python Library'
References: <t7746.63812$59.17990421@news3.rdc1.on.home.com> <4f746.2529$AH6.401534@newsc.telia.net> <uDa46.65273$59.18402781@news3.rdc1.on.home.com> <3A517247.1B79FFC2@ieeeSPAMnot.org>
Message-ID: <jcs46.2688$AH6.449481@newsc.telia.net>

John D. Gorman wrote:
>     I also had a registration problem with the Fatbrain ematter
> version of /F's book.
> /F has also turned off text copying (i.e., cut and paste to the
> clipboard, perhaps for obvious reasons)

Just a couple of notes:

- Fatbrain has stopped using their custom distribution format
(well, you cannot even buy it from them right now, but that
will change).  Fatbrain and MightyWords are now using Adobe's
own "secure PDF" format, which is supposed to work much
better.

(It should also work on non-Windows platforms, but I haven't
tested that myself)

- And yes, the final preparation is made by the publisher; they
want their material to be printable, but hard to copy.  Cannot
do much about that at this time (if I could chose, I'd bundle a
ZIP file with the PDF).

- Finally, the eff-bot library guide will be available in a more
traditional book form in a not too distant future, under a
slightly different title.

(In fact, if you do a little digging, you can already buy it
from amazon and fatbrain, and have it shipped when it's
released.  I wouldn't trust the given release date, though.
And I don't know any of the authors... ;-)

stupid-ly yrs /F




From cg at schlund.de  Tue Jan  9 04:36:04 2001
From: cg at schlund.de (Carsten Gaebler)
Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2001 10:36:04 +0100
Subject: Determine whether STDIN is gzipped
Message-ID: <3A5ADB84.194BAD4E@schlund.de>

Hi there!

I'm writing a program that reads its input data from STDIN. Now I'd like
it to be able to determine whether the input data is gzipped or not and
do the right thing automatically. This is my approach:


import gzip, sys

f = gzip.GzipFile("", "rb", fileobj=sys.stdin)
try:
    f.readline() # raises exception if not gzipped
except:
    f = sys.stdin

while 1:
    line = f.readline()
    if not line: break
    # do something with line


The problem is that if STDIN is not gzipped I am missing the first few
bytes of the first line in the while loop, if STDIN is gzipped I am even
missing the whole first line, all because of the readline() in the try
block. Unfortunately f.seek(0) doesn't work for STDIN. Any hints?

Regards
Carsten.


From jafo-pythonlist at tummy.com  Sun Jan 21 02:28:56 2001
From: jafo-pythonlist at tummy.com (Sean Reifschneider)
Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 00:28:56 -0700
Subject: changing unix password via www python script
In-Reply-To: <Pine.OS2.4.30.0101131800440.403-100000@CENTRAL>; from andymac@bullseye.apana.org.au on Sat, Jan 13, 2001 at 06:04:36PM +1100
References: <93no1v$svv$1@sunsite.icm.edu.pl> <Pine.OS2.4.30.0101131800440.403-100000@CENTRAL>
Message-ID: <20010121002856.F20336@tummy.com>

On Sat, Jan 13, 2001 at 06:04:36PM +1100, Andrew MacIntyre wrote:
>On Fri, 12 Jan 2001, Vesemir wrote:
>> How to change unix account password by python script?
>> I want to write www script, controled by form.
>
>Its clumsy and trouble prone, but what I did was use one of the expect
>modules (PyExpect?- can't remember for sure), and telnetted to localhost

It depends on what platform, but on Linux you can simply feed the data
to "passwd --stdin username".  At one point (before the --stdin patch
was available) I hacked the source code to "passwd" so that I could
do something like: "echo user:oldpass:newpass | pwweb" and it would do
all the appropriate checking and return a success or failure string.

Sean
-- 
 I keep just enough vi knowledge in my head so that I can edit a Makefile
 and build Emacs.  -- Tony Foiani, 1999
Sean Reifschneider, Inimitably Superfluous <jafo at tummy.com>
tummy.com - Linux Consulting since 1995. Qmail, KRUD, Firewalls, Python



From akuchlin at mems-exchange.org  Thu Jan 11 11:23:39 2001
From: akuchlin at mems-exchange.org (Andrew Kuchling)
Date: 11 Jan 2001 11:23:39 -0500
Subject: Module for reading tarfiles?
References: <200101111322.IAA00533@207-172-57-151.s151.tnt2.ann.va.dialup.rcn.com> <mailman.979221733.4528.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3du2763vn8.fsf@kronos.cnri.reston.va.us>

Jeff Bauer <jbauer at rubic.com> writes:
> Perhaps some version of the code could make it into the
> standard distribution.

It looks like there's been quite a bit of wheel-reinventing; /F, DC,
Hintze, and http://phobos.fs.tum.de/PyTar/ (a wrapper around a library
for reading tar files).  This is for the catalog, which would need to
be able to unpack both tar archives and .zip files; zipfile.py is
already there, but tarfile.py should be added, too. (It's too late for
2.1, though.)  

I'll look at all the different versions; thanks everyone!

--amk



From Alain.Desilets at nrc.ca  Thu Jan 18 18:17:56 2001
From: Alain.Desilets at nrc.ca (Alain Desilets)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 18:17:56 -0500
Subject: Testing for is-kind-of relationships (at runtime)
Message-ID: <3A6779A4.E9315EB1@nrc.ca>

Is there a way in Python to test for "is-kind-of" relationships?

For example, suppose x is an instance of A which is a subclass of B
which is a subclass of C. I want to be able to ascertain at run time
that x is a descendant of class C.

Thanks.

--
Alain D?silets

Research Officer
National Research Council Canada
Institute for Information Technology

Agent de recherche
Conseil national de recherche Canada
Institut de technologies de l'information

email/courriel: alain.desilets at iit.nrc.ca

---
Arguing with an engineer is like mud wrestling with a pig.
You soon realize you both enjoy it.
---




From teep at inet.co.th  Thu Jan 18 21:35:22 2001
From: teep at inet.co.th (Prateep Siamwalla)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 09:35:22 +0700
Subject: generating simple graphs and chart images in python
References: <aVK96.3220$tD2.216083@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <94890m$9th$1@news.inet.co.th>

could this be what you are looking for?

http://athani.pair.com/msteed/software/gdchart/


-teep

Ian L <NOSPAM at pacificnet.net> wrote in message
news:aVK96.3220$tD2.216083 at newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
> Hey,
>
> Could anyone point me in the right direction as to how i can generate some
> simple graphs dynamically in python? I want to make something like a bar
> graph, or line graph?
>
>




From sholden at holdenweb.com  Fri Jan 12 17:48:22 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 17:48:22 -0500
Subject: cgi module question
References: <3a5f7b52.253219421@localhost>
Message-ID: <SUL76.16344$6i.133822@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com>

"Victor Muslin" <victor at prodigy.net> wrote in message
news:3a5f7b52.253219421 at localhost...
> Is there a way to parse a query string of this form:
>
> foo=bar&x=y=z&xyz
>
> Is this format against application/x-www-form-urlencoded guidelines?
> Can somebody point me to a definitive document?
>
> What I would ideally like is:
>
> { 'foo' : 'bar', 'x' : 'y=z', 'xyz' : None }
>
As in, for example, the cgi module docs:

parse_qs (qs[, keep_blank_values, strict_parsing])

Parse a query string given as a string argument (data of type
application/x-www-form-urlencoded). Data are returned as a dictionary. The
dictionary keys are the unique query variable names and the values are lists
of values for each name.

The optional argument keep_blank_values is a flag indicating whether blank
values in URL encoded queries should be treated as blank strings. A true
value indicates that blanks should be retained as blank strings. The default
false value indicates that blank values are to be ignored and treated as if
they were not included.

The optional argument strict_parsing is a flag indicating what to do with
parsing errors. If false (the default), errors are silently ignored. If
true, errors raise a ValueError exception.

It even works, see:

>>> d = cgi.parse_qs("foo=bar&x=y=z&xyz")
>>> d
{'foo': ['bar'], 'x': ['y=z']}

I think your problem is the missing "=" on xyz: see what happens if we keep
blank values and put "=" at the end of the query string.

>>> d = cgi.parse_qs("foo=bar&x=y=z&xyz=", 1)
>>> d
{'foo': ['bar'], 'xyz': [''], 'x': ['y=z']}

With strict parsing requested, an error is raised when the "=" is missing,
which presumably means this is not confirmant witht he required format:

>>> d = cgi.parse_qs("foo=bar&x=y=z&xyz", 1, 1)
Traceback (innermost last):
  File "<interactive input>", line 1, in ?
  File "d:\python20\lib\cgi.py", line 169, in parse_qs
    for name, value in parse_qsl(qs, keep_blank_values, strict_parsing):
  File "d:\python20\lib\cgi.py", line 201, in parse_qsl
    raise ValueError, "bad query field: %s" % `name_value`
ValueError: bad query field: 'xyz'

However, I seem to remember PEP 222

(http://python.sourceforge.net/peps/pep-0222.html)

proposed a change to this. However, the PEP isn't likely to make it into
2.1 - everyone who might have commented is too busy putting web applications
together, or too lethargic to comment on it:

    cgi.py: Currently, query data with no `=' are ignored.  Even if
    keep_blank_values is set, queries like `...?value=&...' are
    returned with blank values but queries like `...?value&...' are
    completely lost.  It would be great if such data were made
    available through the FieldStorage interface, either as entries
    with None as values, or in a separate list.

Hope this helps.

it's-all-there-if-you-know-where-to-look-for-it-ly y'rs  - steve






From JoeSmith at bogusaddress.com  Thu Jan  4 20:47:52 2001
From: JoeSmith at bogusaddress.com (Joe Smith)
Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 01:47:52 GMT
Subject: Unexpected result for list operator "+="
References: <3A542778.E1BC06E3@bogusaddress.com> <mfW46.227356$U46.7026522@news1.sttls1.wa.home.com> <zv756.231593$U46.7089647@news1.sttls1.wa.home.com>
Message-ID: <3A552867.32A48A23@bogusaddress.com>

I knew about mutable v. immutable.  I just got surprised at the side effect.  I
guess I have not used lists that much; otherwise, I would have probably used "L
= L1[:]" before.  While it makes sense after realizing what is going on, I just
was surprised.  Maybe I was thinking that it might copy on a change operation;
this way "L = L1; L += L2" really does the same thing as "L = L1 + L2".
(Including side effects.)

Greg Jorgensen wrote:

> Thanks to Fredrik, Alex, Tim, and Thomas for pointing out that Python only
> binds names to objects under the hood. I was guessing (maybe wrongly) that
> the original poster might not know about mutable and immutable objects,
> bindings, etc. That's why I wrote "Assignment of immutable objects
> essentially makes a copy of the object." I lifted the explanation almost
> verbatim from Beazley's "Python Essential Reference," page 19. Beazley wrote
> "... effectively creates a copy..." but it amounts to the same thing--a
> simplification. The real distinction--that assignment operations on
> immutable objects create new objects (or bind a reference to a different
> existing object)--is important but perhaps more information than necessary
> to answer the question.
>
> I appreciate the clarifications and detailed implementation info.



From garabik-news at spam.melkor.dnp.fmph.uniba.sk  Wed Jan 31 05:04:45 2001
From: garabik-news at spam.melkor.dnp.fmph.uniba.sk (Radovan Garabik)
Date: 31 Jan 2001 10:04:45 GMT
Subject: fork, exec and wait on WINDOWS?
References: <3A774C91.40835F30@lbl.gov>
Message-ID: <980935407.666821@cdwork.cvt.stuba.sk>

Nigel W. Moriarty <NWMoriarty at lbl.gov> wrote:
 : I have an app that needs to run on UNIX and Windows.  I have the UNIX fork() and exec() setup but how doe one do a similar thing in Windows?

there is no fork for standard windows version of python, you 
can however compile (unix version of) python under cygwin and then 
you get fork.


-- 
 -----------------------------------------------------------
| Radovan Garabik http://melkor.dnp.fmph.uniba.sk/~garabik/ |
| __..--^^^--..__    garabik @ melkor.dnp.fmph.uniba.sk     |
 -----------------------------------------------------------
Antivirus alert: file .signature infected by signature virus.
Hi! I'm a signature virus! Copy me into your signature file to help me spread!


From emile at fenx.com  Tue Jan 23 01:50:12 2001
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 22:50:12 -0800
Subject: Can I decompile PYC files?
References: <94j8j5$50e$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <94j9kp$do29r$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>

What OS are you working on?  Under dos, there are some
undelete type utilities that may help.  I'm not familiar
with the options under unix.

There is a decompyle.py I've heard mention of, but IIRC, it
doesn't really get your code back.

Sorry I don't have any good answers.

--

Emile van Sebille
emile at fenx.com
-------------------


<noahspurrier at my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:94j8j5$50e$1 at nnrp1.deja.com...
>
>
> A process just deleted my .py file. I still have the .pyc
file.
> Can I recover anything? I'm desparate. It doesn't have to
be perfect.
> Thanks,
> Noah
>
>
>
> Sent via Deja.com
> http://www.deja.com/




From thomas at xs4all.net  Thu Jan  4 11:47:58 2001
From: thomas at xs4all.net (Thomas Wouters)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 17:47:58 +0100
Subject: Unexpected result for list operator "+="
In-Reply-To: <ku66jvoff3.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>; from erno-news@erno.iki.fi on Thu, Jan 04, 2001 at 11:05:52AM +0200
References: <3A542778.E1BC06E3@bogusaddress.com> <mfW46.227356$U46.7026522@news1.sttls1.wa.home.com> <ku66jvoff3.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>
Message-ID: <20010104174758.H2467@xs4all.nl>

On Thu, Jan 04, 2001 at 11:05:52AM +0200, Erno Kuusela wrote:
> In article <mfW46.227356$U46.7026522 at news1.sttls1.wa.home.com>, "Greg
> Jorgensen" <gregj at pobox.com> writes: A
> 
> | Assignment of immutable objects (numbers, strings, tuples)
> | essentially makes a copy of the object.  Assignment of mutable
> | objects (lists, dictionaries) creates a new reference to the
> | original object.

> actually (non-augmented) assignment is always just about references, even
> with immutable objects.

actually *augmented* assignment is, too. *everything* is about references :)

-- 
Thomas Wouters <thomas at xs4all.net>

Hi! I'm a .signature virus! copy me into your .signature file to help me spread!



From fredrik at effbot.org  Wed Jan 10 04:44:31 2001
From: fredrik at effbot.org (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 09:44:31 GMT
Subject: Problems with zipfile module...
References: <93ha6j$ca6$1@reader1.imaginet.fr>
Message-ID: <3aW66.5508$AH6.782619@newsc.telia.net>

Christophe Prevost wrote:
> I've python 2.0, zlib etc... and when i try to use zipfile i've some
> problems
>
> for fch in lch:
>  if fch == sys.argv[0]: continue
>  print fch
>  dt = time.mktime(time.gmtime(os.path.getmtime(fch)))
>  if dt < veryold:
>   cpt += 1
>   if cpt == 1:
>    backup = zipfile.ZipFile(zip, "w", "ZIP_DEFLATED")

ZIP_DEFLATED is a module constant, not a string value.
try changing the above line to:

    backup = zipfile.ZipFile(zip, "w", zipfile.ZIP_DEFLATED)

>   backup.write(fch)
> if cpt != 0:
>  backup.close()

hope this helps!

cheers /F




From sheila at spamcop.net  Sat Jan 27 14:34:38 2001
From: sheila at spamcop.net (Sheila King)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 19:34:38 GMT
Subject: [Off topic] allowed to put Python material on the Web?
References: <3a730931.31998180@news.skynet.be>
Message-ID: <mf867t0go4en09o0of5r5johp8abgqvg2q@4ax.com>

It would probably be polite, to ask the authors of the messages you are using
(assuming you are quoting exactly from the messages) whether they would mind
if you used their material. I'm not sure if this would be practical, though,
since many Usenet participants munge their "from" address, and I'm not sure
how many people you are talking about.

Technically, once the messages are posted to Usenet, anyone can archive and
copy them. However, if you were using them for commercial gain (i.e. ad
banners and such), the authors might request that you remove their material
from your site. Authors of Usenet posts still retain copyright to their own
material.

--
Sheila King
http://www.thinkspot.net/sheila/
http://www.k12groups.org/


On Sat, 27 Jan 2001 17:51:57 GMT, Daniel.Kinnaer at Advalvas.be (Daniel) wrote in
comp.lang.python in article <3a730931.31998180 at news.skynet.be>:

:
:Dear newgroupreaders,
:
:As a Python newbie, I've been collecting lots of questions and answers
:from this newsgroup.  It contains stuff not readily found in the many
:good FAQ from the net.
:
:Before setting up a new site, I would like to ask if it is allowed to
:put my collection of questions and answers from this newsgroup (which
:helped me a lot) on my site,so everyone can enjoy/learn from it
:without going to the d?j? palace.
:
:E.g.  
:- the Tutor beep question
:- reading a file line by line
:- make a stringcopy of a list
:and so on. I've collected replies from Fredrik Lundh,  Emile van
:Sebille, Aahz Maruch, Alex Martelli and Sheila King to name only a
:few.  Yes, I've learned a lot from you!
:
:Thus, before starting the time-consuming task to create this new site,
:I'd like to know if putting this collection on the Web is actually
:legal/allowed.
:
:Hope to hear from you soon.
:
:Best regards,
:
:Daniel
:



From sdm7g at virginia.edu  Wed Jan 10 11:31:46 2001
From: sdm7g at virginia.edu (Steven D. Majewski)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 11:31:46 -0500 (EST)
Subject: why no "do : until"?
In-Reply-To: <93i12s$ul5$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.A32.3.90.1010110112908.6595B-100000@elvis.med.Virginia.EDU>

On Wed, 10 Jan 2001 gregory_wilson at my-deja.com wrote:
> 
> A proposal I floated a year ago, based on feedback from students in
> the Python course I teach, was:
> 
>     do:
>       first-half
>     while cond:
>       second half
> 
> which would allow the following degenerate forms:
> 
>     do:
>       body
>     while cond
> 
> and
> 
>     while cond:
>       body
> 

How do you distinguish between a single loop:

do:
  stuff
while cond:
  more_stuff

and two separate degenerate loops:

do:
  stuff

# done stuff

while cond:
  other_stuff


?

---|  Steven D. Majewski   (804-982-0831)  <sdm7g at Virginia.EDU>  |---
---|  Department of Molecular Physiology and Biological Physics  |---
---|  University of Virginia             Health Sciences Center  |---
---|  P.O. Box 10011            Charlottesville, VA  22906-0011  |---
		"All operating systems want to be unix, 
		 All programming languages want to be lisp." 




From dsh8290 at rit.edu  Wed Jan  3 07:58:41 2001
From: dsh8290 at rit.edu (D-Man)
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2001 07:58:41 -0500
Subject: using 'global' across source files.
In-Reply-To: <3A52EE2C.32432EF5@sara.nl>; from bram@sara.nl on Wed, Jan 03, 2001 at 10:17:32AM +0100
References: <3A51E6B7.82FFE8F4@sara.nl> <92sqc8$nm9$1@news.wrc.xerox.com> <3A52EE2C.32432EF5@sara.nl>
Message-ID: <20010103075841.A4655@westsidecnc.rh.rit.edu>

On Wed, Jan 03, 2001 at 10:17:32AM +0100, Bram Stolk wrote:
> I thought that python's 'global' acted like C's 'extern' cmd,
> meaning, that 'global val' does NOT define/create 'val',
> only refers to a val that exists somewhere else.
> 

'global' is not the same as 'extern'.  In python there are only 2
scopes (actually 3): local (inside a function), module, and builtin.
If you are inside a function and you try to do an assignment, you will
assign to a local variable.  If it doesn't exist yet you have just
created it.  If this isn't what you want, you tell the interpreter
with the 'global' keyword.  It then searches for the variable in an
outer scope (the module) rather than creating a new local variable.

'global' doesn't actually *do* anything except inform the interpreter
of your intent.  The variable was created when you executed the
assignemnt, not global.


In C, however, you must explicitly declare variables first.  This is
how a C compiler knows where to assign the value to.  Since C's static
type checking, etc, must know where to find a variable and check that
it's name/type match the operation you need to tell it that there is
such a variable in existence, but external to the current location.


If you *really* need global variables, I would recommend making a
module such as "Constants" or some other appropriate name and putting
them in there.  Also *don't* use "from <name> import *".  This will
make the names be in the current module's namespace rather than
sharing them with other clients of the imported module.

Maybe it would be better if you redesigned your app to not use global
variables, or to use OO principles instead?

HTH,
-D



From scherrey at innoverse.com  Thu Jan  4 10:42:29 2001
From: scherrey at innoverse.com (Benjamin Scherrey)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 10:42:29 -0500
Subject: Exiting a program from within an object method.
Message-ID: <9325ne014j@news2.newsguy.com>

        I've written a small python program that instantiates an object which 
inherits from SocketServer.BaseRequestHandler. The __main__ function starts 
this thing up with the serve_forever() method. Inside the handle() method 
of my object I check for a command to shutdown and, if received, call 
sys.exit(0). All this does is generate a SystemExit exception and does not 
terminate my program. Even if I wrap the call to serve_forever() with a 
try: except: block, the exception is not caught. I presume because the 
object's handle() method is possibly being executed in a child thread and 
python must not support cross thread exception handling (I'm not 
instantiating any threads explicitly, I'm assuming that the 
BaseRequestHandler is doing this internally)? 

        What's a simple way to have my object exit the application cleanly? 

        thanx & later,

                Ben Scherrey



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Mon Jan  8 17:25:23 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 23:25:23 +0100
Subject: Web devel with python. Whats the best route?
References: <93cqvi0191h@news1.newsguy.com>, <mailman.978910629.6814.python-list@python.org> <20010109015253.2CBFEA82D@darjeeling.zadka.site.co.il>
Message-ID: <063b01c079c2$883d29e0$b3ff1a97@martelli>

"Moshe Zadka" <moshez at zadka.site.co.il> writes:

> > CGI.  Really.  Your admin system doesn't look like the kind of thing
that
> > will be continuously getting multiple hits a second, making CGI overhead
> > a problem.  If that is the case, CGI is easiest.  *Do the simplest thing
> > that can possibly work*!
>
> CGI is not an answer. Perhaps you meant "CGI with lots of little
> print '<HTML>' this and print '<BODY>' that", which is as far from
> the simplest thing that could possible work as possible. Most Python web

Actually, I think the simplest way to generate HTML output in most
cases is by smart copying of an input template (which is HTML with
embedded Python expressions and a few Python statements -- if,
for, while).  The 'smart-copy' facility was the first significant Python
utility I ever wrote for myself, back as a very, very raw Python newbie:
a few well-invested hours mostly spent learning the details of how re's
work in Python.  I think I could redo it now in a couple of hours if I
had to, of course, having learned some Python in the meantime (my
first, and still-working, version, was far too rich in functionality,
allowing
completely-general RE's to demarcate embedded expression, statements,
etc, for example; "I'm younger than that now").

The cool thing (from my POV) is I can use any decent HTML editor
(I recommend Arachnophylia, but of course there's a surfeit of them
around, of all shades between wysiwybywg [what you see is what you
_believe_ you will get] and vim's textediting+syntax colouring) as a 'GUI
builder', with just a little touch of text-editing to ensure the needed
embedded-expressions and conditional and repeated portions.

In any case, if you prefer other approaches such as HTMLgen or
whatever, by all means go for them -- they're not really very related
to the question at hand.  Who's saying you're going to output HTML
at all, rather than XHTML, XML, plaintext, or whatever?  That may
depend on the details of the query you get, current state, blah blah.

Before that becomes an issue, your Python code has to be running
in response to a 'query'; the question was posed in the context of how
to get that to happen (mod_this, mod_that, PyTheOther) -- and my
point is that the simplest practicable way is likely to be CGI, using (if
one needs session continuity) cookies and perhaps shelves.


> Of course, the simplest thing that can possible work
interface-to-the-browser
> part is of course not even going with CGI, but with inheriting from
> BaseHTTPRequestHandler.

I fail to see how that's simpler than 'import cgi', which parses up GET or
POST parameters in a simple, standard way and presents them to your
code in a very dict-like way (OK, the cgi module itself could be simpler,
no doubt -- but, there's a PEP out on Python Web enhancements, isn't
there?).  Then you can run CGIHTTPRequestHandler directly, or Xitami,
or Apache, or PWS, or whatever other webserver you think is the easiest
and simplest to run, administer, and keep running.


Alex



__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com



From grante at visi.com  Sat Jan 13 21:13:56 2001
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 02:13:56 GMT
Subject: BOOTP and TFTP servers in Python?
Message-ID: <slrn9622r4.62n.grante@isis.visi.com>

I need a self-contained BOOTP and TFTP server application for Linux
(portibility to other Unices would be a plus).  I'd like to write it in
Python if possible.

Is it possible to write a BOOTP server in Python using the standard socket
libs?  Since TFTP is a normal UDP based protocol, I know a TFTP server is
possible: does one exist already?

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  Can you MAIL a BEAN
                                  at               CAKE?
                               visi.com            


From MarkH at ActiveState.com  Thu Jan 25 16:10:01 2001
From: MarkH at ActiveState.com (Mark Hammond)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 21:10:01 GMT
Subject: Need Python Enabled Rich Edit Control Similiar to PythonWin.Exe
References: <94q1rt$2ip$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <94q4n0$5en$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

In article <94q1rt$2ip$1 at nnrp1.deja.com>,
  btheld2 at my-deja.com wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I need a python-enabled rich edit control to use in my application
that
> looks similar to the view in PythonWin.exe.  However, I need a control

The Pythonwin rich-edit view is based on a rich-edit control, and can
be used without problem (eg, the "Edit/Preferences" menu item uses this)

However, you should definitely check out scintilla - www.scintilla.org

Mark.


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From erno-news at erno.iki.fi  Sun Jan  7 00:08:09 2001
From: erno-news at erno.iki.fi (Erno Kuusela)
Date: 07 Jan 2001 07:08:09 +0200
Subject: LoadLibrary/dllopen in python.
References: <3a57ea9f.348172625@nntp.interaccess.com>
Message-ID: <kuzoh4j6fa.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>

In article <3a57ea9f.348172625 at nntp.interaccess.com>,
olczyk at interaccess.com (Thaddeus L. Olczyk) writes:

| Is there a way to call LoadLibrary (Win32 ) or dllopen (Linux ) in

yep, with the calldll and dl modules, the dl module (which wraps
dlopen(3)) is pretty limited though. dl comes with python, calldll not.

  -- erno


From richard_chamberlain at ntlworld.com  Sat Jan 13 06:14:46 2001
From: richard_chamberlain at ntlworld.com (ntlword)
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 11:14:46 -0000
Subject: COMMERCIAL: BlackAdder Windows/Linux Python/Qt Development  Environment
References: <3A5CBDB7.F82290B9@river-bank.demon.co.uk> <3A5CE2D6.1A954AD7@monitor.net> <93jvvb0h08@news1.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <yHW76.3343$Ed4.80263@news2-win.server.ntlworld.com>

A plan so cunning you could put a tail on it and call it a weasel?

Richard

Alex Martelli <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:93jvvb0h08 at news1.newsguy.com...
> "Stephen R. Figgins" <fig at monitor.net> wrote in message
> news:3A5CE2D6.1A954AD7 at monitor.net...
> > M'lord, I have a cunning plan.....
>
> Does it involve a turnip?
>
>
> Alex
>
>
>




From erno-news at erno.iki.fi  Thu Jan  4 19:08:33 2001
From: erno-news at erno.iki.fi (Erno Kuusela)
Date: 05 Jan 2001 02:08:33 +0200
Subject: Unexpected result for list operator "+="
References: <3A542778.E1BC06E3@bogusaddress.com> <mfW46.227356$U46.7026522@news1.sttls1.wa.home.com> <ku66jvoff3.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi> <mailman.978626891.31087.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <kuk88an9mm.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>

In article <mailman.978626891.31087.python-list at python.org>, Thomas
Wouters <thomas at xs4all.net> writes:

| actually *augmented* assignment is, too. *everything* is about references :)

fair enough :)

what i was trying to refer (no pun intended) to, augmented assignment
can make new copies. as in:

s = s2 = 'foo'
s += 'bar'
s2 is not s

  -- erno


From moshez at zadka.site.co.il  Wed Jan 10 09:37:16 2001
From: moshez at zadka.site.co.il (Moshe Zadka)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 16:37:16 +0200 (IST)
Subject: escape sequences and string comparisons
In-Reply-To: <93f1rd$iv7$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
References: <93f1rd$iv7$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, <93cboe$ctj$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <93elo7$aoh$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <20010110143716.4F350A82D@darjeeling.zadka.site.co.il>

On Tue, 09 Jan 2001 12:57:18 GMT, jkndeja at my-deja.com wrote:

> To which I reply:
> 	- Serves me right for not RTFM ... ;-/
> 	- not sure that I'm convinced by the debugging argument
> 	- I still think this makes re.escape() less useful than it
> might be. How about a function which turns a string into an 'escaped'
> form such that it would be an 'exact' RE match with itself?

Do you have any evidence that the following does not hold:

for any strings s and t, re.compile(re.escape(s)).search(t) is true iff
s is a substring of t?
-- 
Moshe Zadka <sig at zadka.site.co.il>
This is a signature anti-virus. 
Please stop the spread of signature viruses!



From n8gray at nospam.nospam  Mon Jan 29 02:18:16 2001
From: n8gray at nospam.nospam (Nathaniel Gray)
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 23:18:16 -0800
Subject: "in" for dicts (was: Python 2.1 function attributes)
References: <mailman.980637154.18503.python-list@python.org> <3A7496A7.253B7B67@caltech.edu> <qhq259.3jd.ln@tethys.purecode.com>
Message-ID: <9535qg$8mu@gap.cco.caltech.edu>

Tom Satter wrote:

> "Nathaniel Gray" <n8gray at caltech.edu> wrote in message
> news:3A7496A7.253B7B67 at caltech.edu...
> ...
> >
> > If I was to ask you, "Tim, is 'larch' in Webster's dictionary?" would
> > you reply, "Yes, it's under 'L'", or would you reply, "No, there's no
> > 'larch' section, just A,B,C,D,..."?
> >
> > (I know you'd _actually_ reply "Look it up yourself!" ;^)
> >
> > "in" just doesn't imply "has_key" for dictionaries.
> 
> Except that in Webster's dictionary, 'larch' IS a key with the definition
> (basically a tree) being the value.  So I would expect that 'larch' is IN
> Webster's.

Ahh.  Nothing like using a clever analogy to prove just the opposite of 
your point.  :^)  It just goes to show, once again, that one should never 
post to usenet when one's in a rush.

Nevertheless, there are still three big problems with "in" for dictionaries:

Number 1:  There is no reason, a priori, to think that "in dict" should 
mean "in dict.keys()" rather than "in dict.values()" or even "in 
dict.items()".  Explicit is better than implicit, right?

Number 2:  The chosen semantics for "in dict" are inconsistent with the 
meaning of "in" in the context of lists.  The "keys" of a list are the 
integers from 0 to len(the list) - 1.  When I write:
        list1 = []
        list2 = ['dead', 'parrot']
        for thing in list2:
                list1.append(thing)
        print list1
I get ['dead', 'parrot'], the list's "values", not [1, 2].  Naively, one 
would then expect that:
        list1 = []
        dict1 = {1:'dead', 2:'parrot'}
        for thing in dict1:
                list1.append(thing)
        print list1
should either print ['dead', 'parrot'] or ['parrot', 'dead'].  With lists, 
"in" refers to the thing being stored, not the thing you use to _get_ the 
thing being stored.  Why should dictionaries be different?  It's 
counterintuitive.

Number 5:  (three, sir)  Oh yes, number 3:  We've already got "for a_key in 
dict.keys()"!  The only reason we're introducing these ambiguous, 
inconsistent semantics is so that we can use a dictionary as a set and 
still say "for thing in a_set:".  (I sure hope we're not doing it just to 
save a few keystrokes every now and then!)  We're not straightening out an 
awkward idiom or clearing up a Python wart, we're masquerading one data 
structure as another.  "It's not a big dog.  Perhaps if we clipped it's 
ears and taught it to meow it could pass for a cat!"

Once again, wouldn't it just be better to have a collections module for 
Python with a Set class and let dictionaries be dictionaries?

And yes, I dislike list.pop() too.  ;^)

Lest I come off as too much of a grumpy Gus, I should add that I really 
like most of the new stuff in Python 2.1a1, particularly xreadlines.  I'll 
be first in line to upgrade when 2.1 stabilizes, even if "in dict" 
survives.

-n8

-- 
_.~'^`~._.~'^`~._.~'^`~._.~'^`~._.~'^`~._
             Nathaniel Gray
   California Institute of Technology
     Computation and Neural Systems
     n8gray <at> caltech <dot> edu
_.~'^`~._.~'^`~._.~'^`~._.~'^`~._.~'^`~._



From Bill.Scherer at VerizonWireless.com  Thu Jan 18 14:24:48 2001
From: Bill.Scherer at VerizonWireless.com (Bill Scherer)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 14:24:48 -0500
Subject: emacs / autocompletion
References: <20010118152340.A31004@isohypse.org>
Message-ID: <3A674300.7FA2264E@VerizonWireless.com>

Put this in your .emacs file:

(define-key global-map (read-kbd-macro "M-RET") 'hippie-expand)



Then hitting M-RET (Escape followed by Return for me) will atempt auto
completion.




Siegmund Fuhringer wrote:
> 
> hi..
> 
> is there anywhere an emacs autocompletion mode available?
> i'm unable to find something like that.
> 
> bye siegmund
> 
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

-- 
William K. Scherer
Sr. Member of Applications Staff - Verizon Wireless
Bill.Scherer_at_VerizonWireless.com



From jepler at inetnebr.com  Sat Jan  6 15:06:12 2001
From: jepler at inetnebr.com (Jeff Epler)
Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2001 20:06:12 GMT
Subject: Speed of Python vs. Perl
References: <t5eojolijv1e58@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <slrn95eulj.162.jepler@potty.housenet>

On Sat, 6 Jan 2001 13:23:25 -0500, AndroidMonkey
 <androidmonkey[REMOVETHIS]@hotmail.com> wrote:
>In the last Maximum Linux magazine, there was an article about using Perl
>for a car MP3 player.  It got me wondering - What's the speed of Python like
>compared to Perl? I've never used Perl before, so I hope someone could
>answer my question here. Thanks  -vm

I haven't read the magazine you refer to, but either Python or Perl would be
fast enough to control an mp3 player, including displaying the state of
playback, manipulating playlists, and accepting user input.

In Python, you might use Gtk, Tkinter, or curses to display a GUI interface,
popen2 or a custom extension module to control the underlying mp3 decoder,
and custom classes class for playlists and tracks.  I am not familiar with
the format of mp3 tags, but there have been several threads in the newsgroup
about them recently.  I imagine that a nicely written module for getting title/
artist/etc information out of the files must exist by now.

You won't actually write an mp3 decoder in perl or python, it will be written
in C, possibly with portions in assembler for the lowest CPU consumption.

Jeff


From aahz at panix.com  Fri Jan 19 10:35:49 2001
From: aahz at panix.com (Aahz Maruch)
Date: 19 Jan 2001 07:35:49 -0800
Subject: Beginning with threads
References: <948rj1$rhu$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <949msl$buo$1@panix6.panix.com>

In article <948rj1$rhu$1 at nnrp1.deja.com>,  <bbhaydon at my-deja.com> wrote:
>
>I am just starting with threads and am trying to grasp what should and
>shouldn't be done...  I have a class that uses threads in one of its
>functions. Should I make it inherit from threading??

I recommend inheriting from threading; I think it makes things simpler.
You may want to break up your class into two separate classes.
-- 
                      --- Aahz (Copyright 2001 by aahz at pobox.com)

Androgynous poly kinky vanilla queer het    <*>     http://www.rahul.net/aahz/
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6

I guess I mostly see Life [tm] as a process of closing doors that you
might want to go through.  --Aahz


From matt at virtualspectator.com  Sun Jan 21 18:26:11 2001
From: matt at virtualspectator.com (matt)
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 12:26:11 +1300
Subject: patch for python configure for freeBSD and Zope
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.21.0101211701480.77700-100000@open-systems.net>
References: <Pine.BSF.4.21.0101211701480.77700-100000@open-systems.net>
Message-ID: <01012212294102.00887@localhost.localdomain>

On Mon, 22 Jan 2001, Chris Watson wrote:
> > Hi, I'm using  freeBSD 4.2-RELEASE and just tried to install python-1.5.2 and
> > Zope.  If you are trying to do the same and tun into the following error when
> > trying to start zope, then apply this patch to the configure script of python
> > and rebuild it.
> > 
> > ImportError: ./ExtensionClass.so: Undefined symbol "PyMethod_Type"
> 
> Matt,
> 
> 	Is this an error in the port itself of python? Python 2.0 is in
> ports as well as zope. If there is a problem with either port can you give
> more detail so the apropriate maintainer can be notified. Thanks!	


Sorry, to be more explicit :
I built python 1.5.2 and Zope 2.2.2 from source, although the most recent
stable release of Zope also gave the same error.

I did not use the ports distribution of python or zope, so I don't know if
the same default configure script is used by them too.

Is that what you wanted to know?

Matt



> 
> --
> =============================================================================
> -Chris Watson         (316) 326-3862 | FreeBSD Consultant, FreeBSD Geek 
> Work:              scanner at jurai.net | Open Systems Inc., Wellington, Kansas
> Home:  scanner at deceptively.shady.org | http://open-systems.net
> =============================================================================
> WINDOWS: "Where do you want to go today?"
> LINUX: "Where do you want to go tomorrow?"
> BSD: "Are you guys coming or what?"
> =============================================================================
> GNU = Gnu's Non-portable & Unstable
> irc.openprojects.net #FreeBSD -Join the revolution!
> ICQ: 20016186
-- 



From dsh8290 at rit.edu  Tue Jan 23 16:32:54 2001
From: dsh8290 at rit.edu (D-Man)
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 16:32:54 -0500
Subject: Can I decompile PYC files?
In-Reply-To: <94j8j5$50e$1@nnrp1.deja.com>; from noahspurrier@my-deja.com on Tue, Jan 23, 2001 at 06:33:09AM +0000
References: <94j8j5$50e$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <20010123163254.B22126@harmony.cs.rit.edu>

I heard once that .pyc files are simply Python Code objects that have
been marshalled.  You could take a look at the marshall module and see
how to load such objects.  Maybe you could write them out as strings?
(maybe repr or str will help)

I don't have any other ideas.

(next time you may want to try cvs or rcs to manage revisions in your
files)

-D

On Tue, Jan 23, 2001 at 06:33:09AM +0000, noahspurrier at my-deja.com wrote:
| 
| 
| A process just deleted my .py file. I still have the .pyc file.
| Can I recover anything? I'm desparate. It doesn't have to be perfect.
| Thanks,
| Noah
| 
| 



From ckrill at qvlinc.com  Sat Jan 20 22:12:16 2001
From: ckrill at qvlinc.com (Coy Krill)
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 19:12:16 -0800
Subject: wyPython
References: <Mk9a6.3589$3T2.181641@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <3A6A538F.E8D82AC2@qvlinc.com>

Doug Farrell wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I'd like to hear what people think of wyPython and any experience they've
> had with it, in particular as to how it compares to useing other GUI tookits
> like Tcl/Tk for instance.
>
> Thanks,
> Doug

I've tried it.  It seems nice.  I don't like the printing support, especially
cross-platform.  That said, I don't use it and probably won't.  I've used and
prefer PyQt.  There are licensing issues for those who want to distribute the
Qt libs for Windows apps (i.e. you have to purchase a commercial license of
BlackAdder from thekompany.com) but the pricing is quite reasonable.  It is of
course free for linux or any other platform where Qt is free.  I highly
recommend it for Open Source developers and use it for home stuff all the time.

Coy



From chris at voodooland.net  Sun Jan 14 02:29:10 2001
From: chris at voodooland.net (Chris Watson)
Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 01:29:10 -0600 (CST)
Subject: storing passwords
In-Reply-To: <93rdmr$ihu$1@flotsam.uits.indiana.edu>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.21.0101140127320.32656-100000@open-systems.net>

> I have a Python script that makes a Telnet connectio to a remote server and
> right now I have the password just stored within my code.  I'd don't like
> the idea of leaving the password available like that (the script runs
> automatically every night, so I can't prompt the user for it), so is there
> any other way to store the password in some kind of encrypted fashion??

	Brian, I would ditch telnet and use ssh and a rsa key. No password
needed then. Unless your stuck with telenet. :-|

--
=============================================================================
-Chris Watson         (316) 326-3862 | FreeBSD Consultant, FreeBSD Geek 
Work:              scanner at jurai.net | Open Systems Inc., Wellington, Kansas
Home:  scanner at deceptively.shady.org | http://open-systems.net
=============================================================================
WINDOWS: "Where do you want to go today?"
LINUX: "Where do you want to go tomorrow?"
BSD: "Are you guys coming or what?"
=============================================================================
irc.openprojects.net #FreeBSD -Join the revolution!
ICQ: 20016186




From warlock at eskimo.com  Sat Jan 13 03:41:43 2001
From: warlock at eskimo.com (Jim Richardson)
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 00:41:43 -0800
Subject: making a string copy of a list
References: <slrn95vuqg.1pa.warlock@gargoyle.myth>
Message-ID: <slrn960567.24p.warlock@gargoyle.myth>

On Fri, 12 Jan 2001 22:53:04 -0800, 
 Jim Richardson, in the persona of <warlock at eskimo.com>,
 brought forth the following words...:

>OK, I swear I've looked for this, but how do I make a copy of a list, into a
>string, complete with commas seperating the entries in the list? 
>
>
>
>-- 


Okay, I a replying to my own post to say Doh!, str() does this...

 "This was not a real question, this was only a test, had this been a real
question, something approaching intelligence would have been visible. We now
return you to your regularly scheduled regexps."

-- 
Jim Richardson
	Anarchist, pagan and proud of it
WWW.eskimo.com/~warlock
	Linux, because life's too short for a buggy OS.



From tim.one at home.com  Mon Jan 29 15:25:02 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 15:25:02 -0500
Subject: win32 DLL import problem
In-Reply-To: <KsfjsLA8YYd6Ew7q@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCIEAOIMAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Robin Becker]
> ...
> try and get hold of depends.exe the dependency checker and use it to see
> what DLL's your exetnsion is linked against/expecting. It comes as part
> of the VC++ tools, but it can be downloaded from M$oft somewhere.

The original author of that tool also distributes it (well, a fancier
version, but still free for personal use):

    http://www.dependencywalker.com/




From fischer at intes.de  Wed Jan 17 02:53:19 2001
From: fischer at intes.de (Rolf FISCHER)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 08:53:19 +0100
Subject: Command language definition
In-Reply-To: <20010117082100.A21854@yetix.sz-sb.de>
References: <3A6542EC.99ED1149@intes.de> <20010117082100.A21854@yetix.sz-sb.de>
Message-ID: <01011708573000.21025@rolf>

On Wed, 17 Jan 2001, Andreas Jung wrote:
> On Wed, Jan 17, 2001 at 07:59:56AM +0100, Rolf Fischer wrote:
> > Or is there a combination with another tool that you would recommend ?
> 
> hm...please be a bit more detailed...
> 
> Andreas

Thanks for the reply

if you want to build a grammar, the basic problem is a syntax definition and
the check of its validity
i.e

command:=   keyword [parameter = value]

To setup a command with parameters and values requires a syntax analysis.
My first (and very raw) impression on python was, that the tool has excellent
capabilites in easy programming, but I didn't see anything the like to check a
syntax or to define one. This is why I asked for additional tools.

Best regards
Rolf



From coral945 at aol.com  Fri Jan  5 18:59:07 2001
From: coral945 at aol.com (coral945 at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 23:59:07 GMT
Subject: Get paid alot of money for being online!$  6526
Message-ID: <fdt56.13522$Hi4.410325@news.uswest.net>

Go to http://eazymoney01.homestead.com/main.html for all the info
ekfmzfepvdhewgiutgucwi



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Wed Jan 10 06:32:23 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 12:32:23 +0100
Subject: Silly question from a newbie
References: <S7M66.23342$0x5.1988326@news3.cableinet.net> <7KM66.70326$Wq1.27682542@nnrp5-w.sbc.net>
Message-ID: <93hhag0150d@news2.newsguy.com>

"Phlip" <phlip_cpp at my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:7KM66.70326$Wq1.27682542 at nnrp5-w.sbc.net...
    [snip]
> > I'm using the Python for Windows thingy, as I don't have UNIX (apart
from
> > Linux, which I ordered from Amazon.com, but hasn't arrived yet!).
>
> You'v done a courageous thing just coming here, and we are all here to
> support you. Admitting you have a problem is the first, biggest step to
> recovery.

A-*hem* -- "my name is Alex, and I use Windows".  (Hey, I'd rather be
Linuxing, too -- but if the market is ready to shower me with gold for
developing Windows applications instead of Linux ones, who am I to
resist?  I _am_ rather the corruptible, greedy type, after all!).


Alex





From harrc at my-deja.com  Wed Jan  3 13:57:51 2001
From: harrc at my-deja.com (harrc at my-deja.com)
Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 18:57:51 GMT
Subject: Playing an .mov, .avi etc. file??
Message-ID: <92vsna$hdq$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

Does anyone know of a good way from Python to play a video file (.avi
or .mpg or .mov)?  Or even better, a way to play slected tracks off a
DVD?

Any info is helpful!

Chad Harrington


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From jens.vogelgesang at de.bosch.com  Thu Jan  4 03:44:36 2001
From: jens.vogelgesang at de.bosch.com (Jens Vogelgesang)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 09:44:36 +0100
Subject: Reading from a pipe (open mode w)
Message-ID: <931d5j$m0e$1@proxy.fe.internet.bosch.de>

I need a wrapper to capsulate an interactive tool which is waiting for
keyboard input.
I can generate the input by writing into the pipe.
To be able to retrieve the tool output, I tried to read from the pipe.
My Problem is, that I don't know, how to flush the pipe, to force the pipe
not to be buffered??

Any hints ??

Jens





From rturpin at my-deja.com  Tue Jan 16 09:04:30 2001
From: rturpin at my-deja.com (rturpin at my-deja.com)
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 14:04:30 GMT
Subject: Web devel with python: Best route? XML to HTML translation!
References: <93cqvi0191h@news1.newsguy.com> <mailman.978910629.6814.python-list@python.org> <mailman.978975978.19612.python-list@python.org> <spenrose-E755EB.22423209012001@news.dnai.com> <93hfp1013sm@news2.newsguy.com> <93vnlv$2qq$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <3A6412BC.A07C547@stroeder.com>
Message-ID: <941kd8$k9n$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

In article <3A6412BC.A07C547 at stroeder.com>,
  Michael =?iso-8859-1?Q?Str=F6der?= <michael at stroeder.com> wrote:
> In theory this is a good way. But how about the performance?
> Last time I played with a Python-written XSLT processor it
> was pretty slow.

Did it process the filter/spec on each translation? Or did
it cache the resulting code? Some translation systems use
a pre-processing step to convert filters/specs into
translation code. The resulting code often performs quite
well.

Russell


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From johann at physics.berkeley.edu  Sat Jan 20 14:29:08 2001
From: johann at physics.berkeley.edu (Johann Hibschman)
Date: 20 Jan 2001 11:29:08 -0800
Subject: Tabbing/Spaces
References: <B68E060D.901B%bobhicks@adelphia.net> <mtzogn9rpx.fsf@astron.berkeley.edu> <mailman.979956202.19256.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <mtpuhiaupn.fsf@astron.berkeley.edu>

Barry A Warsaw writes:

> Not for python-mode.  The default for new Python files is 4-space
> indentation levels and no tabs.  Python-mode will adapt somewhat to
> the conventions already existing in the file though.

My mistake.  I just recently upgraded my python-mode, and hadn't noticed
the change, since I (setq indent-tabs-mode nil) in my .emacs.
Thanks for the info; it's good to see python-mode is sane.  :-)

-- 
Johann Hibschman                           johann at physics.berkeley.edu


From andrefor at axionet.com  Sun Jan 28 13:05:18 2001
From: andrefor at axionet.com (Andre Fortin)
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 10:05:18 -0800
Subject: How to call a class method from a string representing a class name
Message-ID: <3A745F5E.5F035F1D@axionet.com>

Hi!,


I'm trying to do the following: if there is an object named 'test' in
this namespace,
call its well-known class method 'myFunc'. The 2 snippets of code below
show how I'm currently doing this. 

Is there a better/easier way, avoiding globals() and vars() ?

Thanks,

-- Andre


#------------ Main file: question.py -------------------
#! /usr/bin/env python


import test

className = 'test'

try:
    myObj = globals()[className]
    apply(vars(myObj)['myFunc'], ('Some text',))
except KeyError:
    pass


#------------ File 2: test.py -------------------
class test:
    pass

def myFunc(someText):
    print "[%s]" % someText


From chris at voodooland.net  Thu Jan 18 01:27:34 2001
From: chris at voodooland.net (Chris Watson)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 00:27:34 -0600 (CST)
Subject: OS Module (how to check free space)
In-Reply-To: <945aq5$2kd$1@nntp.itservices.ubc.ca>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.21.0101172356290.7601-100000@open-systems.net>

> Hi - newbie question: I've looked over the OS module documentation and I can't find a
> tool within python that will allow me to check how much free space is available on a
> storage device such as a hard drive.
> 
> Does anyone know how to do this?

Kris,

	AFAIK I would use os.spawnv() to call df to get free space
assuming this is on unix. Otherwise call whatever win32 equiv there is.
If you need help with spawnv mail me and ill send you sample code.

--
=============================================================================
-Chris Watson         (316) 326-3862 | FreeBSD Consultant, FreeBSD Geek 
Work:              scanner at jurai.net | Open Systems Inc., Wellington, Kansas
Home:  scanner at deceptively.shady.org | http://open-systems.net
=============================================================================
WINDOWS: "Where do you want to go today?"
LINUX: "Where do you want to go tomorrow?"
BSD: "Are you guys coming or what?"
=============================================================================
GNU = Gnu's Non-portable & Unstable
irc.openprojects.net #FreeBSD -Join the revolution!
ICQ: 20016186




From mwh21 at cam.ac.uk  Fri Jan 26 08:54:34 2001
From: mwh21 at cam.ac.uk (Michael Hudson)
Date: 26 Jan 2001 13:54:34 +0000
Subject: Umlauts revisited: Now they prevent program from running
References: <94rt05$tbe$1@newsreaderg1.core.theplanet.net>
Message-ID: <m3bssuxvtx.fsf@atrus.jesus.cam.ac.uk>

"Franz GEIGER" <fgeiger at datec.at> writes:

> I pull data out of an Excel sheet using DAO. There are field values
> containing text strings. Everything works fine until a text reads e.g.
> "St?ck".
> 
> After stopping before the exception
> 
> "UnicodeError: ASCII encoding error: ordinal not in range(128)"
> 
> occurs I display the field in the interactive window of PythonWin
> (ActiveState 2.0 on NT4) by simply typing "fld.Value".
> 
> It displays u'St\374ck'.
> 
> Conversion into a Python string by applying print or str() yields:
> 
> "Traceback (innermost last):
>   File "<interactive input>", line 1, in ?
> UnicodeError: ASCII encoding error: ordinal not in range(128)"
> 
> Any idea how to overcome this?

fld.Value.encode('cp1252') maybe?

-- 
41. Some programming languages manage to absorb change, but 
    withstand progress.
  -- Alan Perlis, http://www.cs.yale.edu/homes/perlis-alan/quotes.html


From paul.moore at uk.origin-it.com  Mon Jan  8 07:01:48 2001
From: paul.moore at uk.origin-it.com (Paul Moore)
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 13:01:48 +0100 
Subject: How do I get a mimetools.Message object from a mailbox.UnixMailbox object?
References: <vgmh5tkv7h0blpv6j8t1soiipoaum64u7v@4ax.com> <gQ866.12100$K72.43378@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <zKtZOtuSM0yT8diPCbNAssX1FC4h@4ax.com>

On Mon, 8 Jan 2001 02:34:31 +0100 , "Steve Holden"
<sholden at holdenweb.com> wrote:

>The mimecntl module was invented to overcome the impedance mismatch between
>mailbox and rfc822, and does so quite well, so you may wish to consider
>using that instead.  I've used it fairly extensively and only had one
>problem with it (which I'm debgging between times, but haven't looked at
>lately).

Thanks for the pointer. However, the module doesn't seem to handle
mbox format mailboxes, and the mailbox module doesn't offer a method
of generating data in a form that can be passed to mimecntl (that
would need mimecntl.MIME_document to have a constructor from a
rfc822.message).

I hand-parsed the Unix mbox format file in the end - it's not hard,
after all...

Thanks,
Paul.



From clarence at netlojix.com  Tue Jan 30 12:45:42 2001
From: clarence at netlojix.com (Clarence Gardner)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 09:45:42 -0800
Subject: SSL EOF
References: <mailman.980662149.14963.python-list@python.org> <980790776.835347129@news.silcom.com> <3A75DEB9.308FE746@san.rr.com>
Message-ID: <980877001.384793985@news.silcom.com>

On Mon, 29 Jan 2001, Darren New wrote:
>Clarence Gardner wrote:
>> The issue is the SSL support in the socket module, which raises an
>> exception when the reading socket is at EOF, rather than returning an
>> empty string.
>
>Do you mean when the SSL library reads EOF on the socket, or when you read
>EOF from the SSL library? SSL requires packets that say "I'm closing the
>socket", and I can understand getting an error if the other side is (for
>example) just exitting without telling its SSL to close the socket first.
>
Here is the relevant code.  I don't know what error==6 signifies, but even
if the other side closed improperly, I don't think that's so significant as to
warrant making these sockets behave differently from non-ssl ones.

    count = SSL_read(self->ssl, PyString_AsString(buf), len);
    res = SSL_get_error(self->ssl, count);

    switch (res) {
    case 0:         /* Good return value! */
        break;
    case 6:
        PyErr_SetString(SSLErrorObject, "EOF");
        Py_DECREF(buf);
        return NULL;
        break;
    case 5:
    default:
        return PyErr_SetFromErrno(SSLErrorObject);
        break;



From erno-news at erno.iki.fi  Thu Jan 25 01:11:33 2001
From: erno-news at erno.iki.fi (Erno Kuusela)
Date: 25 Jan 2001 08:11:33 +0200
Subject: Python and postgreSQL ??
References: <slrn96uhcq.1u1.isard@localhost.localdomain> <kuy9w05sds.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi> <mailman.980401708.18002.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <kur91s5ffu.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>

In article <mailman.980401708.18002.python-list at python.org>, Sean
Reifschneider <jafo-pythonlist at tummy.com> writes:

| On Thu, Jan 25, 2001 at 03:31:59AM +0200, Erno Kuusela wrote:
|| pygresql comes with a tutorial. it's in the "tutorial" directory.

| It's kind of odd though because it makes use of the "pgtools" weirdness.
| "Where does this "pgcnx" come from?"  It also doesn't seem to do much in
| the way of handling results of queries.

hmm, yeah, i didn't actually remember what was in the tutorial,
just that it was there.

seems the latest version of pygresql doesn't have the pgtools
thing. but, it doesn't use the db-api interface either.

i guess best advice to the original poster would be to
find some generic db-api examples and use those.

| An example of the use of large objects would be cool.  Seems to be
| underdocumented in the regular pgsql documentation as well though.

the readme doesn't make it sound very hard...

  -- erno


From krussll at cc.umanitoba.ca  Wed Jan 10 17:07:14 2001
From: krussll at cc.umanitoba.ca (Kevin Russell)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 16:07:14 -0600
Subject: mxTools (was Re: why no "do : until"?)
References: <Iw5jLKALa0W6Ewjq@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk><Pine.LNX.4.30.0101092015010.5204-100000@fep132.fep.ru> <mailman.979066090.17094.python-list@python.org> <t5nenubrrjou21@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <3A5CDD12.B1D0A857@cc.umanitoba.ca>

Jason Cunliffe wrote:

>
> hmmm... let's consider for a moment neither you nor I..
> What about all the newcomers to Python, as beginining programmers, kids,
> students, newbies,
> immigrants from other languages..? What sanity it would be to arrive in
> Pythonia, where DateTime() is actually corresponds to the scope of
> historical time, instead of some *nixed no-life before 1970!
>
> Any kind of datetime needs [beyond system timestamping of files or message
> packets]
> needs mxDateTime(). Any use concerning people and not machine prblems,
> including even basics like date of birth. Anyone over the age of 30+ is out
> luck. Let's see that is maybe 2-3 billion people?
>
> mxDateTime() gets it right the first time. It allows for sane administering
> of all kinds of historical, scientific, statistical, medical, geographic,
> demographic and business data......Or how about wonderful extended features
> of mxDateTime for easier design of more intuitive and useful calendar
> applications.

I have to add my agreement that the standard library needs a module
that actually does dates and times correctly -- which for now means
mxDateTime.

I find the not-enough-people-use-it-so-it's-just-bloat argument utterly
unconvincing in this case.  Are there honestly fewer Python users who
need to deal with dates than there are users who do other things that
the standard library provides for?  (Like interfacing to the Berkeley DB
engine, using the gopher protocol, dealing with image files under
SGI IRIX, interfacing to Sun's NIS?)

If it honestly turns out that there *are* fewer, then by the same logic
the standard library shouldn't include the current broken DateTime.
If there aren't enough Python users who need dates done right, how
many Python users could there possibly be who need dates done
wrong?  If the standard library can't handle dates in the transparent
and correct way that a user would expect (given the rest of the
standard library), then it shouldn't be pretending to handle dates at
all.

-- Kevin




From tim.hochberg at ieee.org  Wed Jan 24 19:10:30 2001
From: tim.hochberg at ieee.org (Tim Hochberg)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 00:10:30 GMT
Subject: The fundamentals...
References: <F8Jb6.30683$pp2.2619941@news3.cableinet.net>
Message-ID: <W9Kb6.163783$15.36164558@news1.rdc1.az.home.com>

"Mike Read" <mread at cableinet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:F8Jb6.30683$pp2.2619941 at news3.cableinet.net...
> Newbie first script alert!  No problem - it does what I intended (which
> probably says more about Python than me...), but I just wanted to start
> off on the right foot - is it as elegant as it could be?  If it's not
blindingly
> obvious, I was separating fields around a period delimiter.

Hi Mike,

There are a couple of things you can do to make it more concise. First, you
can use replace rather than split and join. Second, you can use string
methods instead of the functions from the module string. With these two
changes, it becomes:

infile = open('\\Windows\\Desktop\\test.txt', 'r')
outfile = open('\\Windows\\Desktop\\out.txt', 'w')
outfile.write(infile.read().replace(". ", "\n"))
infile.close()
outfile.close()

Finally, it is common practice to omit the closing of files in many
situations. (Whether it's good practice is an issue for another thread).
This works because the file is automatically closed when the file's
reference count drops to zero(*). So, if the above were appearing in a
function:

def dotToReturn(inpath, outpath):
    infile = open(inpath, 'r')
    outfile = open(outpath, 'w')
    outfile.write(infile.read().replace(". ", "\n"))

dotToReturn('\\Windows\\Desktop\\test.txt', '\\Windows\\Desktop\\out.txt')

the files would be closed at the end of the dotToReturn function. One final
entry for those who crave terseness:

open(outpath, 'w').write(open(inpath, 'r').read().replace(". ", "\n"))

This is a bit too terse for my tastes, but tastes vary...

-tim






(*) One needs to be careful about this if using Jython, formerly Jpython




From zeitlin at seth.lpthe.jussieu.fr  Thu Jan 25 16:36:51 2001
From: zeitlin at seth.lpthe.jussieu.fr (Vadim Zeitlin)
Date: 25 Jan 2001 21:36:51 GMT
Subject: Tkinter vs wxPython: your opinions?
References: <3A6F899F.E164F628@home.com> <hvZb6.2156$_8.33280@news1.rdc1.bc.home.com> <slrn9710o1.73.cerutti@fiad06.norwich.edu>
Message-ID: <slrn971716.ums.zeitlin@seth.lpthe.jussieu.fr>

[disclaimer: my other email address is vadim at wxwindows.org so I'm not
 really impartial]

On 25 Jan 2001 19:41:19 GMT, Neil Cerutti <cerutti at together.net> wrote:
>The current documentation for Tkinter is much better than what is
>available for wxPython. 

 This is very strange. Where is good documentation for Tkinter to be found?
When I had tried to learn using it (this was 5 years ago, true) I couldn't
find any documentation at all. wxWindows documentation is probably what
has personally attracted me so much to it.

>Tkinter's 'pack' layout manager is super easy to use, and with
>some practice and the excellent documentation, powerful. wxPython
>seems to have a couple of layout managers, but how they should be
>used is a mystery.

 Well, this *is* explained in the docs. Besides, the sizers are mostly
what you'd expect them to be (if you have experience with other GUI
frameworks using such things). I don't even think they are that far from
Tkinter layout manager although I don't know it well enough to be sure.

>I've been forced to place everything pixel by pixel so far.

 No offense intended, but this is the worst possible way to do it.

>Binding widgets to callbacks in Tkinter is much easier for me to
>understand than the wxPython EVT_ macros.

 This depends on your background, I guess.

>Tkinter's events seem
>much easier to bind, since I don't have to worry about which
>widget generates what event -- they all seem to generate everything
>I've wanted to bind.

 It is possible to handle events from several widgets or different events from
the same widget in the same event handler in wxPython, so I'm not sure how
much different can it be.

>The objects in wxPython are more full-featured (I guess--for some
>definition of full featured), but aren't as easily configurable
>as the Tkinter ones.

 There is a trade off between having your own, completely customizable
(because you can tweak them in any way you like) widgets and using the
standard ones. wxWindows chooses the 2nd i.e. it favours the native look and
feel.

>wxPython's documentation seems to be in the state Tkinter's was
>back when all there was was the _Tkinter life preserver_.

 I still wonder what documentation are you speaking of? Do you mean wxWindows
documentation (because this is what you should use, it has special python
notes in it but globally it's the same set of docs) or something else?

 Also, I'd advise you to ask the various technical questions you had (handling
ESC, popup menus, ...) on wxPython mailing list. I'm not sure they will be
answered, but it's certainly worth a try.

>Better advice is probably to try them both for some small sample
>app, like I have, and make up your own mind. Perhaps wxPython
>makes perfect sense if you are a good C++ programmer.

 On my own example it certainly does :-)

 Regards,
VZ

-- 
GCS/GM d? H+ s++:-- p2 au--- a- w+ v C+++ UBLS+++ P- L++ N++ E--- W++++ M? V--
-po+ R++ G`` !tv b+++ D--- e++++ u++ h--- f+ r++ n- y?


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sun Jan  7 03:35:53 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2001 09:35:53 +0100
Subject: Should I learn Python or Java?
References: <HEO56.5504$y9.2881293@typhoon.we.rr.com> <938h6r$26j$1@troll.powertech.no> <938ops$b51$1@news.inet.co.th> <938p9i$bn7$1@news.inet.co.th>
Message-ID: <939a0v0nma@news1.newsguy.com>

"Prateep Siamwalla" <teep at inet.co.th> wrote in message
news:938p9i$bn7$1 at news.inet.co.th...
> Ok, correction, you can do stuff with java+ms apps:
>
> "Automating excel with Java"
> http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/q169/7/96.asp

The article covers Microsoft's VJ++ version, only; and besides any other
issues, VJ++ looks sure to be orphaned in the next generation of Visual
Studio (VS7, aka VS.NET, has C# in place of Java).  There are 'bridges'
to let you interoperate (e.g.) Corba<->COM, and you can do Corba with
any Java, but it's rather a curve-ball, involving commercial (perhaps
costly) 3rd party components, etc.


Alex





From msoulier at storm.ca  Sun Jan 14 22:14:01 2001
From: msoulier at storm.ca (Michael P. Soulier)
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 03:14:01 GMT
Subject: win32all crashes win98
References: <3a621864$0$21002@SSP1NO25.highway.telekom.at>
Message-ID: <ZVt86.296129$_5.66317345@news4.rdc1.on.home.com>

In article <3a621864$0$21002 at SSP1NO25.highway.telekom.at>, Wolfgang Neff wrote:
>Python extensions for Windows (win32all) work fine on Windows 2000 and also
>on Windows 98 SE / IE 5.5 when run within PythonWin. Withing python/pythonw,
>however, the same script causes kernel32.dll to crash with a stack error.
>
>Is there someone who knows a work-around?

    Install Linux? :)

    Mike

-- 
Michael P. Soulier <msoulier at storm.ca>
"...the word HACK is used as a verb to indicate a massive amount
of nerd-like effort."  -Harley Hahn, A Student's Guide to UNIX
PGP Public Key: http://24.43.42.96/email.phtml


From andreas at andreas-jung.com  Tue Jan  9 05:10:11 2001
From: andreas at andreas-jung.com (Andreas Jung)
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 11:10:11 +0100
Subject: Determine whether STDIN is gzipped
In-Reply-To: <3A5ADB84.194BAD4E@schlund.de>; from cg@schlund.de on Tue, Jan 09, 2001 at 10:36:04AM +0100
References: <3A5ADB84.194BAD4E@schlund.de>
Message-ID: <20010109111011.A5539@yetix.sz-sb.de>

On Tue, Jan 09, 2001 at 10:36:04AM +0100, Carsten Gaebler wrote:
> Hi there!
> 
> I'm writing a program that reads its input data from STDIN. Now I'd like
> it to be able to determine whether the input data is gzipped or not and
> do the right thing automatically. This is my approach:
> 
> 
> import gzip, sys
> 
> f = gzip.GzipFile("", "rb", fileobj=sys.stdin)
> try:
>     f.readline() # raises exception if not gzipped
> except:
>     f = sys.stdin
> 
> while 1:
>     line = f.readline()
>     if not line: break
>     # do something with line
>
 
Something like the following should work (I assume we can read all
data from STDIN in one read() call):

 
import os,gzip,sys
from cStringIO import StringIO

SIO = StringIO(sys.stdin.read())

try:
	data = gzip.GzipFile('','r',fileobj=SIO).read()
except:
	data = SIO.getvalue()

print data



Andreas



From kmbotha at netinfo.ubc.ca  Fri Jan  5 00:50:00 2001
From: kmbotha at netinfo.ubc.ca (Kris Botha)
Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 05:50:00 GMT
Subject: using snack to eat an mp3 stream
Message-ID: <3a555fe8.47773420@news.interchange.ubc.ca>

Has anyone ever tried this? I know that snack is able to open files
from hard-drive or through streams, using the channel parameter in
snack. Unforunately, I've found no documentation on this sort of thing
anywhere. I'm trying to play audio files through a tcp/ip connection
using snack.. Can anyone point me in the right direction? 

Thanks,


~~====----..----====~~
        Kris Botha



From oblomov at freemail.it  Fri Jan 19 17:04:06 2001
From: oblomov at freemail.it (Giuseppe Bilotta)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 22:04:06 GMT
Subject: Literate programming in Python
References: <MIo96.76568$eB2.6160368@news.infostrada.it> <3A681A33.C49C1920@earth.ox.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <qR2a6.92462$eB2.7229154@news.infostrada.it>

Nick Belshaw <nickb at earth.ox.ac.uk> wrote

[Interscript]

> I found that a bit clumsy so wrote a WYSIWYG editor for it using Python/Tkinter - rough but easy.
>
> - it certainly works. Maybe a bit slow for big projects but it sure maintains readability!!
>

Is it available on the Net? I would really appreciate it.

--
Giuseppe Bilotta






From ivnowa at hvision.nl  Wed Jan 17 10:32:46 2001
From: ivnowa at hvision.nl (Hans Nowak)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 15:32:46 GMT
Subject: help with code for combinations/permutations
References: <944adl$2bf@dispatch.concentric.net>
Message-ID: <3A65B95C.7539@hvision.nl>

Bryan Webb wrote:
> 
> HI,
>     I have a list with 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16 in it,
> I need to come up with all possible combinations of the numbers in the above
> list ie. 1 +2, 1+2+3, 1+2+3+4, 1+2+3+4+5 and so on.
>  I will have multiple lists to deal with, larger and smaller.
> Any help or ideas will be appreciated
> 
> Thanks
> Bryan Webb

This code might help you:

  http://tor.dhs.org/~zephyrfalcon/snippets/source/338.py

  http://tor.dhs.org/~zephyrfalcon/snippets/source/298.py

N.B. I do not maintain the snippets site anymore; you should be able to
find the same code, and possibly more, at the Python FAQTS site
(http://python.faqts.com).

--Hans Nowak


From NoSpam at NoSpam.com  Mon Jan  1 17:02:01 2001
From: NoSpam at NoSpam.com (Tom)
Date: Mon, 01 Jan 2001 22:02:01 GMT
Subject: Electronic edition of 'The Standard Python Library'
Message-ID: <t7746.63812$59.17990421@news3.rdc1.on.home.com>

I tried to use my electronic copy of 'The Standard Python Library' today
(Jan 1), but was unable to.

It is possible that I did something wrong - I have no idea - but I would
caution anyone else who might be considering buying this.  The book is fine,
but the format is a complete hassle.  You pay your money, but you don't
really get the book.

I have nothing against the author trying to make money from his work - I
just don't like it when copy protection schemes impede the ligit use of the
product (usually software) to such an extent.

Is there any other book like it (ie. the standard library with sample code)?

Tom.






From pj at sgi.com  Fri Jan 12 23:26:53 2001
From: pj at sgi.com (Paul Jackson)
Date: 13 Jan 2001 04:26:53 GMT
Subject: Speed of Python vs. Perl
References: <mailman.979287020.15447.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <93oled$o48b3$1@fido.engr.sgi.com>

Tim wrote
|> Talk someone into writing a patch; I've got no bandwidth to spare.

See another branch of this news thread for a patch (both 1.5.2
and 2.0 variants).

Me thinks this (getting startup time competitive with Perl) is
a hard problem, and that the two tweaks in my patch help, but
not greatly.

The combination of the dynamic nature of Python, with having
much of its run time library support loaded from Python code,
not compiled in, would seem to force Python to do upwards of
10 million instructions on startup.

I don't see anyway around this.
-- 
                          I won't rest till it's the best ...
                          Manager, Linux System Software
                          Paul Jackson <pj at sgi.com> 1.650.933.1373


From vivatexas at thesimpsons.com  Thu Jan 18 18:28:06 2001
From: vivatexas at thesimpsons.com (TonyB in VA)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 18:28:06 -0500
Subject: Python training on east coast?
References: <B68C6B99.8E47%bobhicks@adelphia.net> <3a6711b0.2563646@news.laplaza.org>
Message-ID: <9CCE84644311D495.D97124594C5FF211.CC807CD25C59DBB5@lp.airnews.net>

On Thu, 18 Jan 2001 15:59:02 GMT, xyzmats at laplaza.org (Mats Wichmann)
wrote:

>On Thu, 18 Jan 2001 14:45:43 GMT, Robert L Hicks
><bobhicks at adelphia.net> wrote:
>
>>Are there any Python training courses on the east coast?
>
>
>See http://www.learningtree.com/us/ilt/courses/430.htm
>
>Classes are regularly scheduled in Washington D.C., New York and
>Boston.
>Mats Wichmann
>
>(Anti-spam stuff: to reply remove the "xyz" from the
>address xyzmats at laplaza.org. Not that it helps much...)

And let me the first to say, having just taken this course in the DC
area, it is really first rate. 

Course material was comprehensive, and complete.  The instructor
really new the material, and was able to make the time fly.

I now have 2 co-workers who are looking at taking the class. 

I highly recommend this class to call.


TonyB in VA


From NOSPAM at pacificnet.net  Thu Jan 18 18:22:46 2001
From: NOSPAM at pacificnet.net (Ian L)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 23:22:46 GMT
Subject: generating simple graphs and chart images in python
Message-ID: <aVK96.3220$tD2.216083@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>

Hey,

Could anyone point me in the right direction as to how i can generate some
simple graphs dynamically in python? I want to make something like a bar
graph, or line graph?




From news at dorb.com  Sat Jan 27 17:20:01 2001
From: news at dorb.com (Darrell)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 22:20:01 GMT
Subject: wxPython activexwrapper_IE installer
Message-ID: <lQHc6.73860$ju6.7402710@typhoon.nyroc.rr.com>

Tried to use Gordon's installer with the wxPython demo activeXwrapper_IE
I'm stuck on this exception.
Any ideas?

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "iep.py", line 184, in ?
    frame = TestFrame()
  File "iep.py", line 175, in __init__
    self.tp = TestPanel(self, sys.stdout, self)
  File "iep.py", line 41, in __init__
    self.ie = theClass(self, -1, style=wxSUNKEN_BORDER)
  File "d:\python20\wxpython\lib\activexwrapper.py", line 106, in
axw__init__
    self._eventBase.__init__(self, self._dispobj_)
  File "win32com\gen_py\EAB22AC0-30C1-11CF-A7EB-0000C05BAE0Bx0x1x1.py", line
310
, in __init__
    cookie=cp.Advise(win32com.server.util.wrap(self,
usePolicy=EventHandlerPolicy))
ValueError: argument is not a COM object

This is for a tool to run on an intranet.
The idea being much of the main app runs on the server.
But provide a client side interface with the advantages of HTML and
wxPython.

Thanks
--Darrell




From ykingma at accessforall.nl  Wed Jan 17 10:50:20 2001
From: ykingma at accessforall.nl (Ype Kingma)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 16:50:20 +0100
Subject: Jython on the AS/400 (was: Python and Industry, IBM I'm afraid)
References: <mailman.979724658.27312.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3A65BF36.27128C07@accessforall.nl>


Simon Brunning wrote:
> 
> > From: Simon B. [SMTP:sbrunning at bigfoot.com]
> > Now, a Jython port is a bit more likely - the '400 comes with what I'm
> > told is a very good JVM. I've not had any sucess getting it to work
> > just yet, but I keep trying. If I ever do get it going, c.l.py will be
> > the first to know...
> 
> OK, I have Jython working on my AS/400 now - using beta 2. If anyone wants
> details of how I did this, give me a shout.
> 
> It's not ready for showtime yet, though. For a start, the os module doesn't
> seem to be working, which is no surprise, really. I'll try to look into
> that.
> 

The os module is implemented as javaos, ie. the OS facilities that
are available in Java. As Java is a basically a common denominator
in that area, there is less that you can expect from each OS
individually.

> The other thing is that I'm having problems passing byte arguments:
> 
> >>>myInStream.read(27)
> Traceback (innermost last):
>   File "<console>", line 1, in ?
> TypeError: read(): 1st arg can't be coerced to byte[]
> 
> Any tips on this one, anyone?

(Jython tries to convert 27 to a Java byte array, ie. byte[].
You might be able to do that in C, but even then I wouldn't
recommend it unless you are writing a boot loader or sth like that.)

The read() method needs a byte array argument. Check the Jython
documentation on how to do that from Jython:

http://jython.sourceforge.net/docs/jarray.html

Also, you might want to cross post to one of the Jython
mailing lists.


Have fun,
Ype Kingma


-- 
email at xs4all.nl


From moshez at zadka.site.co.il  Fri Jan 19 08:57:59 2001
From: moshez at zadka.site.co.il (Moshe Zadka)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 15:57:59 +0200 (IST)
Subject: Finding source from class or instance?
In-Reply-To: <946dsv0qs@news2.newsguy.com>
References: <946dsv0qs@news2.newsguy.com>, <979777210.145620@sj-nntpcache-5>
Message-ID: <20010119135759.8154FA83E@darjeeling.zadka.site.co.il>

On Thu, 18 Jan 2001 10:42:32 +0100, "Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote:

> There is a dis module, that does 'disassembly' of bytecode, but
> that's lower-level than the Python source you seek, and also
> seems to apply only to _methods_ defined in a class rather than
> to the code in the classbody itself (offhand, I don't know how
> to get to the codeobject for the latter -- anybody...?).

AFAIK, you can't. The code is executed, and then forgotten.

-- 
Moshe Zadka <sig at zadka.site.co.il>
This is a signature anti-virus. 
Please stop the spread of signature viruses!
Fingerprint: 4BD1 7705 EEC0 260A 7F21  4817 C7FC A636 46D0 1BD6



From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Thu Jan  4 07:55:58 2001
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 12:55:58 +0000
Subject: WIN2K batch problem
Message-ID: <WTfUj3AeLHV6Ewr$@jessikat.demon.co.uk>

I'm trying to run Zope 2.2.2 under win2000 in a batch file. I'm just
watching error messages and prints. I find that when zope has written a
page to the cmd.exe window it locks further prints from python until I
hit a key in the window and then it releases another page full. Is there
a Win NT/2K guru who knows about such things and how to prevent this? 
-- 
Robin Becker


From dalke at acm.org  Sat Jan  6 12:32:19 2001
From: dalke at acm.org (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2001 10:32:19 -0700
Subject: 2001 Enchancement Wishlist
References: <3A4CEACB.220998A0@javanet.com> <Ro736.2511$Qb7.273102@newsb.telia.net> <92j83r13gh@news1.newsguy.com> <20001231175940.A5435@xs4all.nl> <008301c07501$c036ae40$43931497@martelli> <20010104165116.F2467@xs4all.nl> <008601c07675$0adf2020$102b2bc1@cadlab.it> <20010104203232.P402@xs4all.nl> <006801c0769b$ac0cc3a0$9d8a1a97@martelli> <20010105110459.Q402@xs4all.nl> <mailman.978706087.24274.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <937l3u$gbi$1@slb2.atl.mindspring.net>

Alex Martelli:
>Recognizing (e.g.) a "def __setattr__" at module-level as providing
>a similar function to a similarly-named method in a class instance
>would (in my opinion) not 'complicate' the Python language: it would
>just extend an already-existing concept (which currently only applies
>to class-instances, and modules coded in C) to some more objects
>(to wit, modules coded in Python).  It would just add a modest amount
>of functionality at an even more modest conceptual cost.

I wrote a system once which proxies local functions to a remote
machine.  It only used strings, floats and ints so pass by copy
worked and I used pickle.

The idea was that I wanted to do something like

import remote
remote.proxy("math", remote.RshConnection("other.machine"))
import math
math.cos(0.0)

I wanted module level __getattr__ and __setattr__ to do this
but found I could implement remote.proxy as

class Proxy:
  def __init__(self, (to_remote, from_remote)):
    self.to_remote = to_remote
    self.from_remove = from_remote
    # ask the remote server for a list of all constants
    #   and their values.
    # ask the remote server for a list of functions
    ...
  def __getattr__(self, key):
    # if it is a constant, return the value
    # if it is a function, return a __call__ able proxy wrapper
    # else raise an AttributeError

def proxy(module_name, connection):
  import sys
  proxy = Proxy(...)
  sys.modules[module_name] = proxy

In other words, what you import doesn't need to be a module.
It can be a class instance instead - or any other data type.
This makes it possible to emulate the module __getattr__
behaviour without changing the definition of a module.

I suppose a modified import could also be written to wrap
every module inside of a proxy instance that forwards calls
to the underlying module, and forwards __getattr__/__setattr__
calls to the appropriate function.

                    Andrew
                    dalke at acm.org





From SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk  Fri Jan  5 05:46:17 2001
From: SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk (Simon Brunning)
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 10:46:17 -0000 
Subject: 2001 Enchancement Wishlist
Message-ID: <31575A892FF6D1118F5800600846864D5B169B@intrepid>

> From:	Fredrik Lundh [SMTP:fredrik at effbot.org]
> (better make it short, before someone plonks me for using
> words that have more than one meaning ;-)
 
/F,
Good Lord, I hope you don't mean me! I was pointing out the multiple meaning
thing 'cos I wanted to see if it would point that interminable thread in a
more constructive direction. It seemed to kill it stone dead, instead - very
nearly as good!

I'm on this list to learn - plonking you would be foolish indeed!

Cheers,
Simon Brunning
TriSystems Ltd.
sbrunning at trisystems.co.uk






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accept liability for statements made which are clearly the senders own.



From lawter at codefab.com  Tue Jan 16 16:07:29 2001
From: lawter at codefab.com (John Lawter)
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 16:07:29 -0500
Subject: Using PyParser_ParseFile ?
Message-ID: <lawter-1601011607290001@zot>

Hi

I'm having some trouble re-using PyParser_ParseFile().  I'm trying to use
it to get a parse tree from a Python Module.  I am calling it like:

Node *n = PyParser_ParseFile(fp, filename, &_PyParser_Grammar, 257,
            (char *)0, (char *)0, &err);

which I think is correct.  

When I traverse the tree it returns, all the node types are the values
from token.h, not the values from graminit.h;  I was expecting the latter,
so I could use "TYPE(n) == funcdef" as in compile.c.

Obviously, there's something I've missed.  Could anyone shed some light on
this ?


From ryant at thawte.com  Tue Jan 16 10:09:22 2001
From: ryant at thawte.com (Ryan Tracey)
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 17:09:22 +0200
Subject: URL replacement in text
References: <3A5F2A5A.494023BF@thawte.com> <MrG76.5696$Qb7.794378@newsb.telia.net> <8qH76.14451$Im.109356@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <3A646422.569C5EC@thawte.com>

Thanks for the example Fredrik. Steve, thanks for the caution. Much
obliged.

Cheers,
Ryan

> "Fredrik Lundh" <fredrik at effbot.org> wrote in message
> news:MrG76.5696$Qb7.794378 at newsb.telia.net...
> > Ryan Tracey wrote:
> > > Can anybody point me in the right direction on this one. I'd like to
> > > pass a block of plain text (string) to a function and have that function
> > > look for URLs and turn them into HTML URL tags
> >
> > import re
> >
> > links = re.compile("(?:http|ftp|gopher):[a-z0-9._~/%-]+")
> >
> > def fixlink(m):
> >     href = m.group(0)
> >     return "<a href='%s'>%s</a>" % (href, href)
> >
> > sometext = """
> > here's a link: http://www.pythonware.com
> > """
> >
> > print links.sub(fixlink, sometext)
> >
> > Hope this helps!
> >
> > Cheers /F
> >
> Tracey:
> 
> Note that this won't cope with some of the more pathological URLs (such as
> those with CGI arguments [http://system/cgi?arg1=val1] or those which link
> to a named anchor in the target page [http://system/pageref#target-name]).
> 
> Since it's about six times better that anything I could do, however, let
> this act as a caution rather than a correction.
> 
> i-like-to-look-at-examples-too-but-avoid-re-when-I-can-ly y'rs  - steve

--
Ryan Tracey 
Thawte Certification


From moshez at zadka.site.co.il  Tue Jan 30 12:05:45 2001
From: moshez at zadka.site.co.il (Moshe Zadka)
Date: 30 Jan 2001 11:05:45 -0600
Subject: Dr. Dobb's Python-URL! - weekly Python news and links (Jan 30)
Message-ID: <A2B38D99D9AB04A4.39A65FF43744CBA0.929C6459B959BC05@lp.airnews.net>

    Moments too late for last week's Python-URL!, Guido announces Python 2.1a1
	http://deja.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=719153679
    available at
	http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=5470

    Tim Peters explains why "if key in dict:" is a good idea for Python 2.1
	http://deja.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=721332761
    why function attributes are good
	http://deja.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=720829036
    why windows beep sounds the same no matter what the frequency is
	http://deja.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=720041274

    Alex Martelli explains how to use Python for web serving
	http://deja.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=719248281
    implements a Pythonic boolean xor
	http://deja.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=720595249

    Fredrik Lundh gives an example of sophisticated search-and-replace
	http://deja.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=719079807

    Bryan Mongeau announces an implementation of AES for Python
	http://deja.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=720935577

    Tim O'Malley announces a timeoutsocket that works with Python 2
	http://deja.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=719743512

    Sean Reifschneider announces SRPMS for Python 2.1a1
	http://deja.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=720611564

    Mark Pilgrim plugs his free Python teaching book
	http://deja.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=721660836

    Albert Hopkins announces a list of Python IDE
	http://deja.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=719447661
    Dr. David Mertz enhances the list a bit
	http://deja.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=719573413

    Barry Warsaw announces mimelib
	http://deja.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=720274419

    Carel Fellinger implements Observer pattern
	http://deja.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=719506967


========================================================================

Everything you want is probably one or two clicks away in these pages:

      Python.org's Python Language Website is the traditional
      center of Pythonia
          http://www.python.org
      Notice especially the master FAQ
          http://www.python.org/doc/FAQ.html

      PythonWare complements the digest you're reading with the
      daily python url
           http://www.pythonware.com/daily  

      comp.lang.python.announce announces new Python software.  Be
      sure to scan this newly-revitalized newsgroup at least weekly.
          http://deja.com/group/comp.lang.python.announce

      Andrew Kuchling writes marvelous summaries twice a month of
      the action on the python-dev mailing list, where the future
      of Python is truly determined
	  http://www.amk.ca/python/dev

      The Vaults of Parnassus ambitiously collect Python resources
          http://www.vex.net/~x/parnassus/   

      Much of Python's real work takes place on Special-Interest Group
      mailing lists
          http://www.python.org/sigs/

      Python Consortium emerges as an independent nexus of activity
          http://www.python.org/consortium

      Cetus does much of the same
          http://www.cetus-links.de/oo_python.html

      Python FAQTS
          http://python.faqts.com/

      Python To-Do List anticipates some of Python's future direction
          http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/todo.py

      Python Journal is at work on its second issue
          http://www.pythonjournal.com

      Links2Go is a new semi-automated link collection; it's impressive
      what AI can generate
          http://www.links2go.com/search?search=python

      Archive probing trick of the trade:
          http://www.dejanews.com/dnquery.xp?QRY=&DBS=2&ST=PS&defaultOp=AND&LNG=ALL&format=threaded&showsort=date&maxhits=100&groups=comp.lang.python


Previous - (U)se the (R)esource, (L)uke! - messages are listed here:
  http://purl.org/thecliff/python/url.html
or
  http://www.dejanews.com/dnquery.xp?QRY=~g%20comp.lang.python%20Python-URL%21


Suggestions/corrections for next week's posting are always welcome.
[http://www.egroups.com/list/python-url-leads/ is hibernating.  Just
e-mail us ideas directly.]

To receive a new issue of this posting in e-mail each Monday morning,
ask <claird at neosoft.com> to subscribe.  Mention "Python-URL!".


-- The Python-URL! Team--

Dr. Dobb's Journal (http://www.ddj.com) is pleased to participate in and
sponsor the "Python-URL!" project.
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at NeoSoft.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://starbase.neosoft.com/~claird/home.html


From msoulier at storm.ca  Sun Jan 14 15:30:38 2001
From: msoulier at storm.ca (Michael P. Soulier)
Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 20:30:38 GMT
Subject: reading line by line
References: <I4i86.290010$_5.65173315@news4.rdc1.on.home.com> <d9i86.6515$AH6.966365@newsc.telia.net>
Message-ID: <O%n86.292285$_5.65706800@news4.rdc1.on.home.com>

In article <d9i86.6515$AH6.966365 at newsc.telia.net>, Fredrik Lundh wrote:

>The standard pydiom is:
>
>    while 1:
>        line = file.readline()
>        if not line:
>            break
>        ...
>
>In the current cvs version, you can also use:
>
>    for line in file.xreadlines():
>        ...
>
>where xreadlines is a lazy version of readlines (cf. xrange)

    Excellent, thank you.

    Mike

-- 
Michael P. Soulier <msoulier at storm.ca>
"...the word HACK is used as a verb to indicate a massive amount
of nerd-like effort."  -Harley Hahn, A Student's Guide to UNIX
PGP Public Key: http://24.43.42.96/email.phtml


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sat Jan 20 18:30:11 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 00:30:11 +0100
Subject: Translating a Perl script into Python
References: <vo9i6t04nhurgv2avmgoss4mg86ofcuhtv@4ax.com> <94d4hk$1sq$1@animus.fel.iae.nl>
Message-ID: <94d721022sp@news2.newsguy.com>

"Carel Fellinger" <cfelling at iae.nl> wrote in message
news:94d4hk$1sq$1 at animus.fel.iae.nl...
    [snip]
> and yet in some circumstances even the more elaborate variant
>
>         PROC.write("%(key)s = %(value)s\n" % {key:key,
val:os.environ[key]})
>
> The latter form comes very close to the Perl way of coding, and
> is espescially suited for format strings spanning several lines.

I think this is error-prone, though -- the dictionary after the % would
have to be coded as {'key':key, 'value':os.environ[key]}.


Alex





From dsh8290 at rit.edu  Sat Jan 20 14:36:34 2001
From: dsh8290 at rit.edu (D-Man)
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 14:36:34 -0500
Subject: Python and Industry, IBM I'm afraid
In-Reply-To: <946evt02mr@news2.newsguy.com>; from aleaxit@yahoo.com on Thu, Jan 18, 2001 at 11:01:10AM +0100
References: <3A63D9E8.F9B74ACE@mjs400.co.uk> <mailman.979631000.28993.python-list@python.org> <941c14$dok$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <mailman.979786609.2939.python-list@python.org> <946evt02mr@news2.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <20010120143634.A8553@harmony.cs.rit.edu>

On Thu, Jan 18, 2001 at 11:01:10AM +0100, Alex Martelli wrote:
| "D-Man" <dsh8290 at rit.edu> wrote in message
| news:mailman.979786609.2939.python-list at python.org...
|     [snip]
| > I have a part time job at a local grocery store that has a
| > video department.  The computer system they use is an IBM
| > mainframe with AIX (4 I think).  What is the language that the
| > software is most likely written in (earliest copyright on it
| > is late '80s, around the time the ANSI C standard was
| > published)?  COBOL or C (or some other language)?
| 
| Hard to say without more data, but, since AIX is and always
| was a Unix flavour, C is your most likely bet (but, of course,
| just about any language is available for Unix).
| 
| Late-'80s AIX was a VERY different (still Unix-flavoured)
| beast from the later AIX 4, and AFAIK it was not practically
[snip]

I checked again, the system is running AIX 4.2.  The terminals are
3515, but I don't think that helps much.

[snip]
| not really surprise me much:-).  As I recall, its main
| "here's our horrible surprise of the day for you" feature
| was a malloc that would never return 0 even if you asked
| it for FAR more memory than you had around -- rather, the
| program died horribly later when it actually tried to USE

Ugh!

| the memory it THOUGHT it had allocated... a "designed-in
| feature", they adamantly insisted, NOT a bug (later I
[snip]

People actually design a system to prevent proper error handling in
applications?  I'm glad I haven't had to develop on it (yet).


I had thought that it would be C, but I wasn't considering COBOL.
When someone mentioned the difficulty in finding a C compiler for
AS/400 systems (ok, I don't actually know what hardware this mainframe
is) I began to doubt my original assumption.

It's a horribly broken program anyways.  It can no longer calculate
the late fees correctly.  The company has the bad habit of changing
policy long /before/ changing the software.  Coupons almost never scan
at the correct value -- the value is usually dependent on what is
being purchased but the software uses a simple (maybe not) table
lookup so a single price is hard-"coded" in.  There is also a program
that if you rent a certain number of videos, you get a free rental.
The computer used to keep track of it.  When the updated the system to
allow expiration dates beyond 12/31/99 they broke the counter (this
was /before/ the New Year too!).  For a couple months the counter
would randomly count up, down, or stay the same.  Since then they have
reverted to punch cards the customer must keep track of.  I really
wish they would redesign the system to meet the current requirements!
(I imagine, and sincerely hope, that it met the requirements when it
was originally installed)

-D




From SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk  Mon Jan  8 06:56:38 2001
From: SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk (Simon Brunning)
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 11:56:38 -0000 
Subject: rstrip vs. champ (was: python-dev summary, Dec. 16-31)
Message-ID: <31575A892FF6D1118F5800600846864D5B16AD@intrepid>

> From:	A.M. Kuchling [SMTP:akuchlin at mems-exchange.org]
> People have suggested adding a chomp() function that performs the same
> task as the Perl built-in: it removes the trailing newline from a
> string.  
> 	
> http://sourceforge.net/patch/?func=detailpatch&patch_id=103029&group_id=54
> 70
> 
> Reaction was mixed: Moshe liked it, but others thought that the
> existing rstrip() method, which removes *all* whitespace from the end
> of a string, is sufficient.
 
It would be even better if rstrip (and its siblings strip & lstrip) took an
optional argument specifying which characters to strip...

Cheers,
Simon Brunning
TriSystems Ltd.
sbrunning at trisystems.co.uk




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From grey at despair.rpglink.com  Mon Jan 29 11:30:03 2001
From: grey at despair.rpglink.com (Steve Lamb)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 16:30:03 -0000
Subject: curly-brace-aphobic?
References: <3A74EBD6.3C87FD15@seebelow.org> <slrn97a9fu.7sf.clgonsal@keeshah.penguinpowered.com> <3A757FBE.E54C5ECD@seebelow.org>
Message-ID: <slrn97b6kb.k6.grey@teleute.dmiyu.org>

On Mon, 29 Jan 2001 08:35:42 -0600, Grant Griffin <not.this at seebelow.org>
wrote:
>It helps me when reading code (even my own) to be reminded of the difference.
>(I am the proud owner of a skull of strictly limited size.)

    One too many trips to the south pacific, I take it?  :)

-- 
         Steve C. Lamb         | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your
         ICQ: 5107343          | main connection to the switchboard of souls.
-------------------------------+---------------------------------------------


From tim.hochberg at ieee.org  Tue Jan  9 10:18:27 2001
From: tim.hochberg at ieee.org (Tim Hochberg)
Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2001 15:18:27 GMT
Subject: string escaping problems with MySQLdb
References: <93f2cr$ofq$1@news2.dtag.de>
Message-ID: <7ZF66.128944$15.27235477@news1.rdc1.az.home.com>

The mysterious BxT spake thusly:

> Hi, i know this is a new-bie question,
> i'm using MySQLdb and, as i'm extracting records, i get string escaped as
> follows:
> for example, instead of ? i'm getting \\337 (yes, with doppel \). When i'm
> printing the string i'm getting blah\337 (internally is blah\\337).

The string you are getting only has a single '\', it is displayed with two
because a "\337" is the escape code for the beta symbol. Hmmm, that's not
very clear, I suggest you peruse the manual and or play around till this
becomes clear. However, the difference you are seeing the string displayed
in the interpreter and the string printed is that printing formats stuff
using the str function, while in the interpreter repr is used.

>I tried
> to use string.replace but it's giving me the same string. Is there a way
to
> print blah??

I'm sure there's a better way, but:

import re
print re.sub(r"\\(\d\d\d)", lambda x : chr(int(x.group(1),8)), myString)

or more clearly:

escapedOctal = re.compile(r"\\(\d\d\d)")
def matchToChr(match):
    n = int(match.group(1), 8)
    return chr(n)

print re.sub(escapedOctal, matchToChr, myString)


I'll let you figure out how that actually works....

-tim






From ckalista at realproject.be  Mon Jan 15 05:54:38 2001
From: ckalista at realproject.be (Kalista Christophe)
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 11:54:38 +0100
Subject: ALARM on windows?
Message-ID: <93ukvl$cdp$1@news0.skynet.be>

I'm having trouble handling SIGALRM under windows!

I'd like to do the following : A python script listens to port 6664(for
example). When it gets a connection, it then sets an alarm handler and then
tries to read from the socket. If it does not get data within 10 seconds, it
then times out, at which point the alarm handler throws an axception and
aborts the socket read.

The problem is that I don't know how to handle signals under WINDOWS.

Any ideas?

Thanks in advance.
Kalis.





From hansboehm at my-deja.com  Wed Jan 31 13:53:24 2001
From: hansboehm at my-deja.com (hansboehm at my-deja.com)
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 18:53:24 GMT
Subject: Python vs Ruby
References: <20010129111820.C15924@harmony.cs.rit.edu> <mailman.980835459.24363.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <959mv0$qke$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

In article <mailman.980835459.24363.python-list at python.org>,
  "Tim Peters" <tim.one at home.com> wrote:
> [Neil Schemenauer]
> > RC also works quite well with data caches and VM managers.  Using
> > the Boehm-Demers GC with Python and disabling reference counting
> > slows the interpreter down by a significant amount.
>
Are you sure the collector is working correctly, and not retaining
garbage for some reason?  I looked at the source tree quickly, and it
appeared to me that the interpreter maintained a doubly linked list of
all Python objects?  That would effectively keep the collector from
reclaiming anything.  Is that list essential?

When I last looked at this 4 or 5 years ago, there were some other
issues that prevented a direct plug-in of a tracing collector.  I think
some subsystems did their own free-list management.  This tends to be a
pessimization with a tracing GC, especially if the objects on the free
list still point to other long-dead objects, etc.  I couldn't find such
issues now, but I didn't look very hard.

You can probably get a good idea whether any of these are an issue by
building the collector without -DSILENT, and looking at the amount of
reachable memory it found.
...

> Thanks to refcounting, the storage for "s" is reclaimed on each
iteration,
> and overwhelmingly most iterations manage to reuse the storage left
behind
> from a preceding iteration.  As Neil said, that's very cache-friendly.
> Without refcounting, you're likely to stomp on new memory addresses
each
> iteration until some limit is reached, then gc will go lurching all
over a
> large blob of memory at least once (possibly more) cleaning it up.
That's
> cache-hostile.
True, although there are some tricks you can play to reduce the effect.
See http://www.hpl.hp.com/techreports/2000/HPL-2000-99.html (also in the
ISMM 2000 Proceedings).  Much of the remaining cost is that with
reference counting (or malloc/free style memory management) you often
get to allocate memory that's already in the cache.  With a M/S GC, you
usually don't.

On the other hand, reference counting is also rather cache-unfriendly,
in a different way. Assigning a reference now needs to touch both the
previously referenced and the newly referenced object, which are very
unlikely to be on the same cache line.  And both lines are dirtied, so
they will need to be written back when they are replaced.

Reference counting tends to look considerably worse if you fully support
concurrency, so that you have to update reference counts with atomic
operations.  But in my experience it rarely wins for small objects even
in the single-threaded case.  (It can win for large objects, or if you
are very tight on space, so that you would have to collect too often.)
>
> Python has extremely high dynamic memory throughput, because *nothing*
is
> exempted from the "everything's an object, and all objects are
> heap-allocated" scheme.  Mark-&-sweep-- and especially simple M&S --is
> happier with modest rates of memory turnover.
I agree that reference counting looks relatively better with a high
allocation to pointer assignment ratio.  But I would also claim that
there are some high allocation rate programs for which mark/sweep is
clearly the winning strategy, e.g. if you repeatedly build a large data
structure, traverse/tweak it a few times, and then drop it.  If you
mostly allocate very short-lived objects, copying generational
collectors are hard to beat.
...

Hans

Hans_Boehm<at>hp<dot>com


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From fredrik at effbot.org  Sat Jan 27 06:38:35 2001
From: fredrik at effbot.org (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 11:38:35 GMT
Subject: Python vs Ruby
References: <94mdkd$222e$1@news.adamastor.ac.za> <p6qwvbjtr97.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de> <94pvd8$3g$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <p6qu26mtesx.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de> <mailman.980533713.29159.python-list@python.org> <slrn97486l.gm.amk@mira.erols.com>
Message-ID: <%qyc6.9474$Qb7.1381390@newsb.telia.net>

andrew wrote:

> Hrm... In the Jones/Lins book on garbage collection, section 2.1 and
> chapter 3 are on reference counting, and they refer to it as "one of
> the classial garbage collection algorithms", which settles the matter
> for me; clearly reference counting *is* a form of GC

the GC FAQ lists reference counting under "basic algorithms",
together with mark-and-sweep and copying:

    http://www.iecc.com/gclist/GC-faq.html

Cheers /F




From peter at engcorp.com  Sat Jan  6 02:15:11 2001
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2001 02:15:11 -0500
Subject: variable inirialization and loop forms (was Re: why no "do : 
 until"?)
References: <92jj3j$ff7$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <3A4D6A05.EEC97FA6@uswest.net> <slrn94qqvg.mgg.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <ije36.96813$x6.43604873@news2.rdc2.tx.home.com> <slrn94qt4f.mgg.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <CMo36.97857$x6.44474719@news2.rdc2.tx.home.com> <slrn94s9qg.134.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <gdq36.2696$Qb7.302774@newsb.telia.net> <slrn94shbe.150.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <92v6m002nlr@news2.newsguy.com> <3A560294.9C943D5E@ltec.net>
Message-ID: <3A56C5FF.DA0C8BD8@engcorp.com>

Lloyd Sommerer wrote:
> 
> While I'm just learning Python, I was wondering if anyone knows a good reason
> not to express a loop in this manner:
> 
> T = getCurrentTemperature()
> while warmEnough(T):
>     T = getCurrentTemperature()
> 
> This is expressed in Alex's generalization, but I think also applies to the
> original code:
 [snip]

> I realize that written this way there is a maintainability issue. Perhaps that's
> reason enough not to do it this way.

Yes!  That is definitely reason enough not to do it this way.  
The moment I catch myself writing lines that are that clearly 
redundant that close together, I refactor to remove the
redundancy.  

Maintenance issues are, in my opinion, one of the
most under-appreciated problems of software development.  All
code has to be maintained, even if it's just by the author,
and even if it's just a day after the code was written.  The
likelihood (as shown by direct experience and long observation)
of code like the above being broken by subsequent changes
being made incorrectly is much higher than if the code were
written without the duplicate lines.


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Tue Jan 16 09:08:56 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 15:08:56 +0100
Subject: python compiled to native in less than a year?
References: <mailman.979575676.22737.python-list@python.org> <GqH86.6041$J%.605518@news.flash.net> <G9K86.60439$eB2.5067059@news.infostrada.it> <n7vv39.r1f.ln@demonseed.net>
Message-ID: <941koq077o@news1.newsguy.com>

"jason petrone" <jp at NOSPAMdemonseed.net> wrote in message
news:n7vv39.r1f.ln at demonseed.net...
> Giuseppe Bilotta <oblomov at freemail.it> wrote:
>
> > Knowing M$, at least one of the following will hold :
>
> > 1) M$ will not cleanly document IL, making it almost impossible to know
it
> > appor priately;
>
> Actually, the IL documentation is pretty good.  Assuming the MS
implementation
> of it follows the specification, this won't be a problem.

Do you have an URL for non-microsoft sites with the IL docs, please?


> > 2) M$ will patent IL, so royalties will have to be paid for its use
(aka:
> > bye-by e, Free Software)
>
> Right now MS is trying(along with HP) to get IL accepted by a standards
> commitee, though I forget which one.  If this happens, there won't be a
patent
> problem.  However, MS also tried to put ASF on the standards track, but
gave
> up and went the patent route instead, so who knows.

What's ASF?  Also, _are_ patents incompatible with standards?  I thought,
for example, the MPEG group did standardize on a patent-covered format for
the now-very-popular MP3 files, and indeed some German public-sector body
is now trying to cash in on the patent they hold.  So what might stop MS
from getting a patent _after_ some standards group (ECMA maybe?) blesses
their IL.  Not trying to fuel paranoia -- I'd *love* it if a standard did
emerge for a bytecode such as IL -- just trying to understand...


Alex





From mike at skyweb.ca  Wed Jan 31 21:22:47 2001
From: mike at skyweb.ca (mike)
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 20:22:47 -0600
Subject: serial port
Message-ID: <3a78ca89_2@skyweb.ca>

is there any modules for serial port communication?




From kwoeltje at mail.mcg.edu  Tue Jan 16 18:30:29 2001
From: kwoeltje at mail.mcg.edu (Keith F. Woeltje)
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 23:30:29 GMT
Subject: Problem with a tuple - newbie ignorance
References: <3A633531.9010303@yale.edu> <3A635C32.9E5285C5@yale.edu> <i1k76t8g9dr5fft0v0phcr98hb6qkdjbaq@4ax.com> <slrn968fk9.g0f.scarblac@pino.selwerd.nl> <nk096.27$eI2.11999@ruti.visi.com>
Message-ID: <3A64D9E8.B1D52E1E@mail.mcg.edu>

Normal (forward) slashes won't however work in a command prompt window
in Win2000.
Does the python interpreter make the change "magically" (like it does
the end of line marker)?
>K

Grant Edwards wrote:

> Apparently.  Forward slashes have been accepted by MS
> "operating systems" since the very beginning, but I don't know
> how many times I've seen people (mostly in C programs) shooting
> themselves in the foot by trying to use backslashes instead.
> 
> --
> Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  I want to so HAPPY,
>                                   at               the VEINS in my neck STAND
>                                visi.com            OUT!!


From fredrik at effbot.org  Wed Jan 24 09:49:14 2001
From: fredrik at effbot.org (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 14:49:14 GMT
Subject: Random and whrandom
References: <94bj03$59v$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <3a6a3540.1976549@news.xo.com> <ei8q6t0ohuded1oiet6qe79e1eco529ote@4ax.com> <94jkh0011gg@news1.newsguy.com> <mailman.980296063.27447.python-list@python.org> <94m9bf$nge$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <94mjv402318@news2.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <KXBb6.9021$Qb7.1278908@newsb.telia.net>

Alex Martelli wrote:
> What is 'rand', I don't know: the Python docs don't mention it
> at all.  If it ever existed

It's an old emulation of C's "pick up troll or throw axe"-
style generator; here's the version from 1.4:

import whrandom

def srand(seed):
    whrandom.seed(seed%256, seed/256%256, seed/65536%256)

def rand():
    return int(whrandom.random() * 32768.0) % 32768

def choice(seq):
    return seq[rand() % len(seq)]

It disappeared somewhere on the way from 1.4 to 1.5.2.

Cheers /F




From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Mon Jan 29 17:34:40 2001
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 22:34:40 +0000
Subject: freebsd extension problem
In-Reply-To: <20010129141823.A1010242@vislab.epa.gov>
References: <Y0jKkKAaBDc6EwhS@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
 <20010129141823.A1010242@vislab.epa.gov>
Message-ID: <UrwUdQAAAfd6EwJv@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>

In message <20010129141823.A1010242 at vislab.epa.gov>, Randall Hopper
<aa8vb at yahoo.com> writes
>Robin Becker:
> |I'm trying to build an extension which used to work with 1.5.2 unde
> |freebsd.
> |
> |I seem to be able to build the extension using the old
> |
> |make -f Makefile.pre.in boot method and have linked to various
> |libraries. However for some reason I'm getting a bad magic number error
> |when trying to import the module.
> |
> |I assume that this is somehow caused by a missing import. Is there an
> |easy way to find out what I'm missing?
>
>Potentially useful links below.  Could be that you have an ELF python and
>an AOUT module, or vice versa.  Run 'file' on each to see.  
>
>I assume these are FreeBSD binaries (not Linux under emulation).
>
>http://www.deja.com/=dnc/[ST_rn=ps]/getdoc.xp?AN=704455585
>http://www.deja.com/=dnc/[ST_rn=ps]/getdoc.xp?AN=704541401
>
...
Thanks. The problem was exactly that. Overnight the ISP changed OS and
python etc etc resulting in a good deal of confusion. Thanks for the
kind thought any how.
-- 
Robin Becker



From tim.one at home.com  Sun Jan 28 00:40:26 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 00:40:26 -0500
Subject: . Python 2.1 function attributes
In-Reply-To: <980659490.312565807@news.silcom.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCAEMIILAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Clarence Gardner]
> I was somewhat amazed at the addition of print>>, and I assure you
> that I will never use it.  But since I consider Guido, et al, as
> nearly godlike,

Watch it there, Clarence -- I love you, but that's pretty faint praise of my
boss.

> and given that the last four years of my programming career have been
> much more joyful than they would have been without Python, I have
> magnanimously given him a pass on this issue :)

At a PythonLabs meeting a few weeks ago, Guido happened to mention that, of
all the new 2.0 features, "print >>" is the one he found himself using the
most so far.  I believe it!  It's very handy.  Which is, of course, why
Barry fought for it so hard.

would-be-more-impressed-by-the-damnation-of-people-who've-actually-
    tried-it-ly y'rs  - tim




From rcameszREMOVETHIS at dds.removethistoo.nl  Thu Jan 11 07:38:51 2001
From: rcameszREMOVETHIS at dds.removethistoo.nl (Robert Amesz)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 12:38:51 GMT
Subject: new enum idiom
References: <G6qzLy.6Fo@world.std.com> <938jmh$919$1@animus.fel.iae.nl> <3A58B9C0.9F2A5CC0@collins.rockwell.com> <93an8v02d2n@news1.newsguy.com> <93dde1$8d2$1@animus.fel.iae.nl> <93f3nb023mv@news1.newsguy.com> <90259DC4Arcamesz@127.0.0.1> <93i57b01qms@news2.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <90268BCE3rcamesz@127.0.0.1>

Alex Martelli wrote:

>"Robert Amesz" <rcameszREMOVETHIS at dds.removethistoo.nl> wrote in
>message news:90259DC4Arcamesz at 127.0.0.1...
>>
>> [Snip]
>>
>> It also would be much easier to parse the argument list in that
>> form. 
>
>Fine, but can't be "*much* easier" -- it's just one .split away from
>the 'bar=32' proposal to ('bar','32'), after all:-).

Oh, allright. let's just call it a *little* easier, then. I mainly like 
the lispy flavour. Also, as a small extra bonus, you can use 
expressions with the tuple-notation. That allows you to do things like:

   #global constants
   base1 = 100
   base2 = 200

   #Someplace else
   xx = enum(('foo',base1), 'foo2', 'foo3', ('bar',base2), 'etc')


Of course, you can always eval() the right hand part of 'foo=base1', 
but the other form catches any syntax errors in those expressions 
before the program actually runs.


Robert Amesz


From rickylee at americasm01.nt.com  Thu Jan 18 20:41:41 2001
From: rickylee at americasm01.nt.com (Lee, Rick)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 20:41:41 -0500
Subject: MAC IDE & Debugger
References: <B68BC4B9.8DF4%bobhicks@adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <3A679B55.BE95A2AA@americasm01.nt.com>

I think it does have colored syntax highlighting.  In any window, at the
right hand side near the top, there is a right-arrow button; try clicking on
that; it actually expands into a menu.  You will find all kinds of neat
things in that menu.

My gripe is that there is no way to tell its editor to automatically expand
tab keystroke to 4 spaces.  Most of the files that I am working with come
from other people, who use 4 space indent convention.

- Rick

Robert L Hicks wrote:

> I really like the MAC version of the Python IDE and Debugger...even over
> IDLE.
>
> I only wish that it had basic (bolding maybe) syntax highlighting.
>
> Bob



From vmarkwart at my-deja.com  Thu Jan 18 17:24:35 2001
From: vmarkwart at my-deja.com (vmarkwart at my-deja.com)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 22:24:35 GMT
Subject: Access, Field names, mxODBC
References: <947ods$uk4$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <947qen$p8$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

I have just discovered cursor.description, which solves my problem.
Cheers
Victor


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From phrxy at csv.warwick.ac.uk  Sun Jan 28 14:14:07 2001
From: phrxy at csv.warwick.ac.uk (John J. Lee)
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 19:14:07 +0000
Subject: PyMacs vs. Pym (was: Pyditor, Text editor fully extendible in
 python a la' Emacs)
In-Reply-To: <0O7zTzsxerl5-pn2-xdzE56cler1k@bill>
References: <20010127193848.59d0f64b.ngreco@softhome.net><HBEJKOJGHBOIBHLHPMKGIEAACIAA.rcalco@cortechs.com> <mailman.980638952.20592.python-list@python.org> <950k0f01tco@news2.newsguy.com> <0O7zTzsxerl5-pn2-xdzE56cler1k@bill>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.30.0101281911050.12069-100000@mimosa.csv.warwick.ac.uk>

On 28 Jan 2001, William Sonna wrote:

> On Sun, 28 Jan 2001 08:06:49, "Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
> > "Nahuel Greco" <ngreco at softhome.net> wrote in message
> > news:mailman.980638952.20592.python-list at python.org...
> >     [snip]
> > > > By the way, my ideal text editor will also keep my coffee cup full of
> > warm,
> > > > fresh Expresso while I'm working. Haven't found one yet that can do
> > that,
> >     [snip]
> > > > I'll have to insist on the java (small j) support...

no, you're wrong: you want M-x global-auto-brew-mode


John



From DavidLNoNOSpammy at raqia.com  Fri Jan 12 14:30:18 2001
From: DavidLNoNOSpammy at raqia.com (David Lees)
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 14:30:18 -0500
Subject: Thanks got the e-mail address
References: <3A5E05F9.253D2E62@raqia.com>
Message-ID: <3A5F5B4A.45A4F63C@raqia.com>

Thanks Robert and Brad for sending me Doug's contact info.

david

David Lees wrote:
> 
> I am trying to locate Doug Hellmann who wrote a Python code for
> generating input to the graph display package daVinci.  The e-mail on
> his code (from January 1998) is doughellmann at mindspring.com , but it is
> now defunct.  If anyone knows him could you pass on my e-mail address
> which is:
> 
> davidl at raqia.com
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> David Lees


From Kimmo.Paakkonen at helsinki.fi  Tue Jan 30 09:36:21 2001
From: Kimmo.Paakkonen at helsinki.fi (Kimmo =?iso-8859-1?Q?P=E4=E4kk=F6nen?=)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 16:36:21 +0200
Subject: MMTK and Scientific python for NT 4.0
Message-ID: <3A76D165.348D5C2A@helsinki.fi>

  Hi,
  is there a precompiled version of MMTK and Scientific Python for
Windows NT 4.0 somewhere? I found older binaries from site
http://starship.python.net/crew/kernr/binaries/Binaries.html
but those were linked against Python 1.5, and I'm using Python 2.0. I
also noticed that in that page the versions of the MMTK and Scientific
Python are older than in their FTP sites (those new versions seem to
support threading, and I have 2 processor on my NT machine :).

  If there are no such binaries, are there some instructions how to
compile them for NT? I have the free Borland 5.5 compiler, and I have
made couple of extensions with it (with the very nice help from
http://www.cyberus.ca/~g_will/pyExtenDL.shtml
), but building MMTK extensions seems confusing, as I don't have
experience of compiling bigger projects. Any help appreciated!!

                        Kimmo P??kk?nen
                        Kimmo.Paakkonen at helsinki.fi




From debl at NONOSpammytheworld.com  Mon Jan  8 00:50:54 2001
From: debl at NONOSpammytheworld.com (David Lees)
Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2001 05:50:54 GMT
Subject: ActivePython Installer for 2.0?
Message-ID: <3A595540.9D34A5AA@NONOSpammytheworld.com>

I just tried uninstalling and reinstalling Python 2.0 (I broke something
in IDLE).  I first downloaded the ActivePython2.0.0.202.msi

When I double click on it I get a message that says I need a newer
version of the Windows Installer service?  I am using Win98SE.  What do
I need to get this '.msi' extension to install?

Anyway, I am up and running again by downloading BeOpenPython2.0 and
Mark Hammonds Win32all-135.  However, it would be handy for new machines
to use the single Active Python.

Thanks in advance.

David Lees


From derek at realware.com.au  Wed Jan 17 19:23:51 2001
From: derek at realware.com.au (Realware Systems)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 10:23:51 +1000
Subject: Regular expressions
Message-ID: <MPG.14cf88e8d0c87a6d989681@news.syd.connect.com.au>

Hi,

I have been looking at the docs at python.org but I must be missing 
something.

I cannot find an example of how to set up a regular expression.

I would like to know how to 

1. set up an RE
2. apply it to a string (to just perform a match)
3. apply it to a string to perform a replacement
4. how to join RE's

If any one can help I would much appreciate it 

Thanks in advance 
Derek

P.s the docs at python.org seem quite good as a reference but they do not 
provide examples of use (other than the tutorial and this is limited) 
does any one know of a site with good examples for a beginner. I have 
plenty of programing experience, in C/C++ some Perl + others but python 
is very new to me 

Thanks again


From tolot at utolot.toppoint.de  Wed Jan 17 14:31:46 2001
From: tolot at utolot.toppoint.de (Marc Christiansen)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 20:31:46 +0100
Subject: Stupid Newbie
References: <3A645C7B.248902E4@mdx.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <2vr449.fub.ln@utolot.toppoint.de>

DAVID <david34 at mdx.ac.uk> wrote:
> To run this file (spam.py), I type:
> python spam.py a b c
> 
> I get following message:
> File "<stdin>", line 1
> python spam.py a b c
> SyntaxError: Invalid syntax
> 
> Any ideas??

Yes. "python" is not a python command. The line you're typing works only
from the commandline (DOS-Box it's called iirc). To use a module from
within python you use "import modulename_without_extention". But then
you can't supply parameters to the module, except by setting up argv
yourself. Or you implement a function in the module which when called,
does the same as the module does when called from the commandline.
And take care, when you use "import" the module is read in only once,
subsequent imports only create a new reference in the current namespace.
To re-read the module use reload(modulename_without_extention).

Ciao
  Marc
-- 
Save the rainforest: Go to http://rainforest.care2.com/welcome?w=190056410

PGP-Key fingerprint   EE 2E C1 06 D1 28 89 D2  F9 CE 35 7B F8 F4 42 52
Marc Christiansen  24109 Kiel


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Thu Jan 18 05:01:10 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 11:01:10 +0100
Subject: Python and Industry, IBM I'm afraid
References: <3A63D9E8.F9B74ACE@mjs400.co.uk> <mailman.979631000.28993.python-list@python.org> <941c14$dok$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <mailman.979786609.2939.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <946evt02mr@news2.newsguy.com>

"D-Man" <dsh8290 at rit.edu> wrote in message
news:mailman.979786609.2939.python-list at python.org...
    [snip]
> I have a part time job at a local grocery store that has a
> video department.  The computer system they use is an IBM
> mainframe with AIX (4 I think).  What is the language that the
> software is most likely written in (earliest copyright on it
> is late '80s, around the time the ANSI C standard was
> published)?  COBOL or C (or some other language)?

Hard to say without more data, but, since AIX is and always
was a Unix flavour, C is your most likely bet (but, of course,
just about any language is available for Unix).

Late-'80s AIX was a VERY different (still Unix-flavoured)
beast from the later AIX 4, and AFAIK it was not practically
used on mainframes at the time (there _was_ an AIX/370, or
something like that, that you *could* run on mainframes, but
it didn't sell much at all); AIX 3.2 was the OS for the
IBM 6150 workstation (here in Italy it did sell reasonably
well, including many used to run our CAD software of the
time on -- just 2D, back then -- but I don't think it was
much used for grocery stores' video departments:-).

AIX 4 came out in the early '90s (I remember the trips to
the heavily secured IBM location where the only not-yet-
announced workstation running AIX 4 was kept -- that's
where we had to go to port our software so it would be
announced together with the new machine and OS... as I
was freshly moved to this CAD software firm after many
years with IBM Research, the paranoia-level security did
not really surprise me much:-).  As I recall, its main
"here's our horrible surprise of the day for you" feature
was a malloc that would never return 0 even if you asked
it for FAR more memory than you had around -- rather, the
program died horribly later when it actually tried to USE
the memory it THOUGHT it had allocated... a "designed-in
feature", they adamantly insisted, NOT a bug (later I
did meet some BSD variants with this wonderful 'feature'
too -- never did I really understand WHY one would play
such a trick to poor application programs...!); that
accounted for well over half of our porting woes to
that specific box/OS.  Later, they did relent and allow
some ways to bypass the 'malloc never fails' feature.

Not that this helps determining the unknown application
language used where you work, of course, but, it's good
to keep these things in mind when complaining about today's
porting difficulties -- they aren't NEW problems...!-).


Alex






From grey at despair.rpglink.com  Wed Jan  3 10:53:36 2001
From: grey at despair.rpglink.com (Steve Lamb)
Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 15:53:36 -0000
Subject: why no "do : until"?
References: <92jj3j$ff7$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <92m9pm$d19$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <B3z36.122$9s1.18804@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com> <3A4EC5B1.8912E571@engcorp.com> <x8G36.156$9s1.31209@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com> <3A4F4B4D.ECD6B172@engcorp.com> <rBr46.7783$4c.597712@ruti.visi.com> <slrn9550fe.rvi.kc5tja@garnet.armored.net> <dWG46.7998$4c.647371@ruti.visi.com>
Message-ID: <slrn956io0.t0c.grey@teleute.rpglink.com>

On Wed, 03 Jan 2001 14:45:29 GMT, Grant Edwards <grante at visi.com> wrote:
> if (whatever) {
>   do something;
>   do something else;
> } else {
>   yet another thing;
> }
  
>I simply can't read read code like that, and generally do an
>'indent -gnu' on it before I try to figure out what's going on...  

    I normally do a variation of this.

if (whatever) {
  do something;
  do something else;
}
else {
  yet another thing;
}

    This is so the ending brace is lined up with what it is ending.  The
{ else } in the middle of the K&R ruins that.  How does a } close a } !?!?!?
In the one I write we see an if closed and an else closed. 


-- 
         Steve C. Lamb         | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your
         ICQ: 5107343          | main connection to the switchboard of souls.
-------------------------------+---------------------------------------------


From phd at phd.pp.ru  Wed Jan 24 05:44:55 2001
From: phd at phd.pp.ru (Oleg Broytmann)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 13:44:55 +0300 (MSK)
Subject: thread
In-Reply-To: <3A6EADD6.11122913@acriter.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0101241344160.16040-100000@fep132.fep.ru>

On Wed, 24 Jan 2001, Johan Jonkers wrote:
> At the company I work we use python 1.5.2 on Solaris. I made a python
> script on my home computer running linux (same python version btw), but
> when I tried it at work it couldn't find the thread module. I thought
> that the thread module was a standard module? Am I wrong in this?

   It is builtin (compiled from C) module. May be it just hasn't been
compiled in.

Oleg.
----
     Oleg Broytmann            http://phd.pp.ru/            phd at phd.pp.ru
           Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN.




From rschlack at my-deja.com  Tue Jan 16 12:08:19 2001
From: rschlack at my-deja.com (rschlack at my-deja.com)
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 17:08:19 GMT
Subject: how can I get the current url
Message-ID: <941v5r$ubl$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

Please help.  I have 4 domains pointing to the
same IP.  I want my index.html page to determine
the current domain so that I can change the
headers and footers accordingly.

I am new to python and have no idea how to do
this.  I am trying to change the headers and
footers on our Ultraseek software.

thanks,
Rob


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From sheila at spamcop.net  Sat Jan 20 02:13:25 2001
From: sheila at spamcop.net (Sheila King)
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 07:13:25 GMT
Subject: Translating a Perl script into Python
References: <vo9i6t04nhurgv2avmgoss4mg86ofcuhtv@4ax.com> <kug0ied7po.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>
Message-ID: <oeei6tg7hfdcsptg6f4sosp2s1evko0i4l@4ax.com>

On 20 Jan 2001 09:05:23 +0200, Erno Kuusela <erno-news at erno.iki.fi> wrote in
comp.lang.python in article <kug0ied7po.fsf at lasipalatsi.fi>:

:In article <vo9i6t04nhurgv2avmgoss4mg86ofcuhtv at 4ax.com>, Sheila King
:<sheila at thinkspot.net> writes:

:| slurp = sys.stdin.read()
:| qmail = ["SENDER", "NEWSENDER", "RECIPIENT", "USER", "HOME", "HOST", "LOCAL",
:| "EXT", "EXT2", "EXT3", "EXT4", "DTLINE", "RPLINE", "UFLINE"]
:| try:
:| 	PROC = open("proc.test","w")
:| except:
:
:it's usually a bad idea to have a blanket "except:" statement,
:because it might mask other errors in your code.
:in this case i'd use
:  except (IOError, OSError), why:
:        sys.exit('Couldn't write file: %s' % why)
:
:sys.exit(), if supplied with a string, will print it to
:stderr and exit with status 1.

Thanks. I guess, I was kind of wondering about the comparison to the Perl
command, which is pretty common for opening files in Perl:

open PROC, ">proc.test" || die "Couldn't open file for write: $!";

Is the closest I can get in Python, to a Perl "die" statement, is to use
exceptions? (I'm directing this to the group, not just Erno, as I realize he
may not know Perl.

--
Sheila King
http://www.thinkspot.net/sheila/
http://www.k12groups.org/



From danielk at aracnet.com  Mon Jan 29 09:01:59 2001
From: danielk at aracnet.com (Daniel Klein)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 06:01:59 -0800
Subject: biggner question
References: <952951$m4r1@news.qualitynet.net>
Message-ID: <hota7tks3tanlp0fuuvskmiboss6s6juea@4ax.com>

On Sun, 28 Jan 2001 20:28:09 +0300, "baasad" <baasad at qualitynet.net> wrote:

>how can I read from the command line
Look in the Python documentation for the 'python' command as well as
'sys.argv'.

>also how can I read users input :)
myinput = raw_input("What's new?")

Daniel Klein


From murple at my-deja.com  Mon Jan 22 05:01:13 2001
From: murple at my-deja.com (murple at my-deja.com)
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 10:01:13 GMT
Subject: Python 2.0 parser module bug(?) and a Q
References: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10012272204060.330-100000@kev.ioc.ee> <p6qofxxe43j.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de> <Pine.LNX.4.10.10012281200430.23773-100000@kev.ioc.ee>
Message-ID: <94h0d7$5vb$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

Hi,

> > A  colleague of mine has an "unparser" module
for Python AST; that is
> > not (yet) released to the public, and works
not (yet) for 2.0.

I'm the colleague mentioned. My solution to the
problem doesn't look as good as yours.
I was  rebuilding the Python-code by examining
the structure of the syntax-tree.
This is the reason, it's not working with Python
2.0. I was using the strings in the syntax-tree
only for identifiers. Feeling a little bit
stupid for not seeing this other solution.


> Any constructive critisism is welcome!

Ok, your wish is my command :-)

I noticed two problems:

1. If you have double DEDENT, there is a
'\r' left in the resulting string. This
seems to be easely solved by an replace()

2. Anything like "modul.class.function" comes out
as "modul  . class . function". Using replace
to solve this is not good, since you would replace
also in wrong places. I think, here you would have
to look into the structure of the syntax-tree.

Maybe you have an solution for 2.?

Another question is, which way is faster.
You have to do more recursions, because when
I find a symbol.sym_name["class_stmt"] I write a
"class",  you go another step to find the "class"
string in the tree.
On the other side, I have to do a lot more
comparisons then you.

Maybe after a code-cleanup I will compare the
solutions.

Anyway, I learned a lot about Python by doing
this Unparser (as I call it). It was my first
Python-program ever. And I learned a lot about
Python-Syntax this way.

Hope my comments help you in any way.

By, Andreas


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From keisari_ at hotmail.com  Sat Jan 27 11:56:48 2001
From: keisari_ at hotmail.com (joonas)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 18:56:48 +0200
Subject: Creating files.
Message-ID: <3A72FDD0.2C1206CF@hotmail.com>

Is there any functions in Python for creating files?

Joonas.


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Thu Jan 18 04:42:32 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 10:42:32 +0100
Subject: Finding source from class or instance?
References: <979777210.145620@sj-nntpcache-5>
Message-ID: <946dsv0qs@news2.newsguy.com>

"Stuart Stanley" <stuarts at 171.69.180.197> wrote in message
news:979777210.145620 at sj-nntpcache-5...
>
>
> Folks,
>
> Is there a (easy!) way to get the source code from a class or instance
> of a class?  A preference would lie in just getting the source of the
> base class itself, but I would settle for getting the file name where
> the base class lives in.  I figure the information is sitting in the
> modules somewhere, but I don't know how to navigate there to get it....

A class object has an attribute __module__ which identifies the *name*
of the module in which the class was defined; from an instance object,
you can get its class object via its attribute __class__ (I'm not
sure where 'the base class' comes in, but if you need a class's bases
you'll want to look at the class object's attribute __bases__ which
just lists them in order -- these are class objects, not names).

Given the module name, you may look for the module object in
dictionary sys.modules; if you do find it (it _could_ have been
removed in the meantime), it MAY have an attribute __file__ which
gives the path to the file the module was loaded from IF it was
indeed loaded from a file (it need not have been).

For 'normal' cases, then, something like:

theclass = instance.__class__
modname = theclass.__module__
import sys
modobj = sys.modules[modname]
thepath = modobj.__file__

may give you what you want (or rather, what you would settle for).
Just make sure you trap all the possible exceptions and anomalies
at each step!

The file named by thepath may not be around any more, of course --
it may have been erased or renamed just after it was compiled to
a .pyc or .pyo, for example.  Or, if it exists, it need not be
the same as it was back when the class definition was executed
(it may have been overwritten, and who can tell what differences
may have been caused by such overwriting!).


There is a dis module, that does 'disassembly' of bytecode, but
that's lower-level than the Python source you seek, and also
seems to apply only to _methods_ defined in a class rather than
to the code in the classbody itself (offhand, I don't know how
to get to the codeobject for the latter -- anybody...?).


Alex





From thomas at xs4all.net  Fri Jan 26 16:37:07 2001
From: thomas at xs4all.net (Thomas Wouters)
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 22:37:07 +0100
Subject: SourceForge problems
In-Reply-To: <lmlc6.774$27.199390@ruti.visi.com>; from grante@visi.com on Fri, Jan 26, 2001 at 08:46:09PM +0000
References: <mailman.980510689.2616.python-list@python.org> <lmlc6.774$27.199390@ruti.visi.com>
Message-ID: <20010126223707.L962@xs4all.nl>

On Fri, Jan 26, 2001 at 08:46:09PM +0000, Grant Edwards wrote:

> >don't-even-try-discussing-hot-steaming-faggots<wink>-ly y'rs - tim

> You're probably not talking about cigarettes or firewood, so
> I'm guessing it's some sort of sausage. But English food is
> best left undiscussed if not uneaten.  ;)

As opposed to the wonderful american inventions of, uuhmm... the hotdog ? 

-- 
Thomas Wouters <thomas at xs4all.net>

Hi! I'm a .signature virus! copy me into your .signature file to help me spread!



From cfelling at iae.nl  Sun Jan 28 13:29:32 2001
From: cfelling at iae.nl (Carel Fellinger)
Date: 28 Jan 2001 19:29:32 +0100
Subject: [Python-Help] Globals
References: <mailman.980667753.21120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <951oec$6ab$1@animus.fel.iae.nl>

Aleksei Guzev <aleksei.guzev at bigfoot.com> wrote:

...problem snipped

The global name scope of Python is the module scope.
So it's impossible to refer to entities in other modules
without importing those modules. e.g.

$ cat a.py
# module a

g_var = None

class CA:
    def foo( self ):
        print g_var

$ cat b.py
# module b
import shelve, a
s = shelve.open( 's' )
s[ "va" ] = a.CA()
s.close()

$ cat c.py
# module c
import shelve, a

s = shelve.open( 's', 'r' )
va = s[ "va" ]
s.close()

a.g_var = "the string to be printed"
va.foo()

$ python b.py
$ python c.py
the string to be printed



-- 
groetjes, carel


From fredrik at effbot.org  Thu Jan 25 14:20:01 2001
From: fredrik at effbot.org (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 19:20:01 GMT
Subject: Crash using Python 2.0 Extension
References: <3A707199.FBDF1A81@newfocus.com>
Message-ID: <B%_b6.9200$Qb7.1324792@newsb.telia.net>

Ken Koller wrote:
> I originally wrote the routine below to return Py_None, but the
> interpretter would crash after calling the routine several times (maybe
> 100-200) in a row.

you mean like

    static PyObject * pt_pSetModule(PyObject * self, PyObject * args)
    {
        return Py_None;
    }

this doesn't work -- Python expects your function to own a
reference to the object you'll returning, and will decrement
the reference counter once it's done with the return value.
When the return value reaches zero, the None object is
removed, and anything can happen.

(in a stock interpreter, there already are 100-200 references
to None when your program starts running. sys.getrefcount(None)
will give you the exact number for your setup).

But if you look in the library sources (*always* do this when you
cannot figure out how to use the C API), you'll notice that many
functions/methods do return Py_None -- but they all do one very
important thing before doing so:

    Py_INCREF(Py_None); /* get another reference to None */
    return Py_None; /* return an owned reference */

for more info, see:
http://www.python.org/doc/current/ext/refcounts.html
(especially "ownership rules")

Cheers /F

<!-- (the eff-bot guide to) the standard python library:
http://www.pythonware.com/people/fredrik/librarybook.htm
-->




From jasonic at nomadicsltd.com  Tue Jan  9 14:09:15 2001
From: jasonic at nomadicsltd.com (Jason Cunliffe)
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 14:09:15 -0500
Subject: mxTools (was Re: why no "do : until"?)
References: <mailman.979035250.28265.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <t5mo8oimr7lle7@corp.supernews.com>

Oleg Broytmann <phd at phd.pp.ru> wrote:
>    Anyone here has any doubts that at least mxDateTime simply MUST be in
> the Python core? :)

YES!!
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE let's end this 1970.epoch.ticks.DateTime-oriented
mAdNeSs now = include mxDateTime in Python core for perpetuity..

- Jason
___________________________________________________________
Jason CUNLIFFE = NOMADICS['Interactive Art and Technology']




From NWMoriarty at lbl.gov  Tue Jan 30 18:21:53 2001
From: NWMoriarty at lbl.gov (Nigel W. Moriarty)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 15:21:53 -0800
Subject: fork, exec and wait on WINDOWS?
Message-ID: <3A774C91.40835F30@lbl.gov>

I have an app that needs to run on UNIX and Windows.  I have the UNIX fork() and exec() setup but how doe one do a similar thing in Windows?

Nigel



From Daniel.Kinnaer at AdValvas.be  Thu Jan  4 15:54:47 2001
From: Daniel.Kinnaer at AdValvas.be (Daniel)
Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 20:54:47 GMT
Subject: How-to create a Pascal Record using Python
References: <3a54c7cf.15612195@news.skynet.be> <u4456.166$XZ5.32337@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <3a54e0c0.21998314@news.skynet.be>

On Thu, 4 Jan 2001 14:21:27 -0500, "Steve Holden"
<sholden at holdenweb.com> wrote:


>
>    return file.read().splitlines()
>
>
>regards
> Steve
>
Thanks for your reply.  Was it correct to handle Pascal-like records
the way I did, or is there a more Python-ly manner of handling this?

Suppose I have something like

TMyRecord = record
     aName : string;
     adate   :  TDateTime;
    aZIP     : integer;
  end; //record

var MyRecs : array [1..100] of TMyRecord;
      f             : file of TMyRecord;

How is this handled in Python?  Sorry for these questions, but I
really would like to learn about all of this.

Thanks


From fabrice.n at home.com  Tue Jan 30 22:48:02 2001
From: fabrice.n at home.com (shaka)
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 03:48:02 GMT
Subject: Does python20. package come all Libraries
References: <Rlpd6.16903$KP3.5182969@news3.rdc1.on.home.com> <TdF2Ou9AYBnAM=adnPwZpPUdXtAs@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <SVLd6.24196$KP3.7185723@news3.rdc1.on.home.com>

I download ActiveState python and I didn't like it, because all the module
were scattered all over the place. they were not contain into a folder and
there is no text iditor like IDLE, so that's why I download python20.



"David A. Fuess" <fuess at att.net> wrote in message
news:TdF2Ou9AYBnAM=adnPwZpPUdXtAs at 4ax.com...
> No. Many of the special libraries are available on www.python.org. For
> some you're better off going to the library developer's site for the
> latest version. If your planning to run pythonwin, you might consider
> installing ActiveState python instead of Python20. It comes with all
> of the Win32 libraries installed.
>
> Dave
>
> "shaka" <fabrice.n at home.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >I was just wondering if all the libraries published on the python web
site
> >are contained in downloading package of python20.  If no, how can I get
> >those libraries??
> >
> >thanks
> >
>




From nospam at mega-nerd.com  Sun Jan 14 05:56:24 2001
From: nospam at mega-nerd.com (Erik de Castro Lopo)
Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 10:56:24 GMT
Subject: libpython2.0 as a Linux shared library
Message-ID: <3A618354.577B192A@mega-nerd.com>

Hi all,

I'm interested in in using Python as an embedded language inside
and application I'm wriitng under Linux. My first attempt was a
small text program which I did manage to get to link. The problem
is that a 10 line C program with embedded Python becomes a 2+ Meg
stripped executable.

Does anybody know how to configure and compile Python so that 
libpython2.0 is a shared library?

TIA,
Erik
-- 
+-----------------------------------------------------------+
  Erik de Castro Lopo  nospam at mega-nerd.com (Yes its valid)
+-----------------------------------------------------------+
The difference between genius and stupidity is that
  genius has its limits.


From kkinder at tridog.com  Wed Jan 17 19:27:51 2001
From: kkinder at tridog.com (Ken Kinder)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 17:27:51 -0700
Subject: Best way to learn Python ?
References: <aa8a6t895h8l3k2q7nmhd25oh6m7haulj9@4ax.com> <3A66211B.F7F4F6BB@bioeng.ucsd.edu>
Message-ID: <3A663887.95AE8023@tridog.com>

Lemmie jump in here... There is a school that teaches Perl and Python --
TCPC. I don't have the URL.

Curtis Jensen wrote:
> 
> J5 wrote:
> >
> > No schools teach it, so what books do you recommend ?
> 
> I had a class that used it here at UCSD.  It was a camparative languages
> class.  The class' focus wasn't Python, but we did discuss it and had a
> programming assingment in it.
> 
> Though, yes, it is not realy taught in schools.  But neither is Pearl,
> Awk, Shell scripting, ML, Pascal (anymore), etc.
> 
> --
> Curtis Jensen
> cjensen at bioeng.ucsd.edu
> http://www-bioeng.ucsd.edu/~cjensen/
> FAX (425) 740-1451
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
-------------- next part --------------
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From mhammond at my-deja.com  Sun Jan  7 22:32:03 2001
From: mhammond at my-deja.com (Mark Hammond)
Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2001 03:32:03 GMT
Subject: Python, ADO, VC++ 6
References: <R%966.323$l71.150865@news.pacbell.net>
Message-ID: <93bcbj$lfl$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

In article <R%966.323$l71.150865 at news.pacbell.net>,
  "Keith Farmer" <farmerk at pacbell.net> wrote:
> I've been attempting to create a Python module in C++ which uses ADO
to
> perform calculations against a database.

You should be able to use the COM extensions to use ADO.

> >>> AstroMath.countRows("workqueue")
> 12  [this is correct]
> >>> AstroMath.countRows("workqueue")
> [promptly crashes with a memory reference error]

A quick glance doesn't offer any ideas.  Where exactly does the program
crash?  You have MSVC, so should be able to get a debuggable version of
your module.

Mark.


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From paulp at ActiveState.com  Sun Jan 21 18:28:49 2001
From: paulp at ActiveState.com (Paul Prescod)
Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 15:28:49 -0800
Subject: how to test for nesting inlist
References: <94bhte$4iv$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <94bvgu0kt4@news2.newsguy.com> <94ea6k$4uc$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <3A6B70B1.2F91BC90@ActiveState.com>

cpsoct at my-deja.com wrote:
> 
> Thanks. and here i get a chance to learn something
> recursion hurts my brain. map does everything but make coffee
> doesn't it. It is amazing to me how many places map and filter
> show up. i used map with None to lace lists last night. amazing
> the things you can do in python.....

You can do a lot with list comprehensions that otherwise would be done
with map and I think that the list comprehension versions are often much
more readable.

 Paul Prescod



From fredrik at effbot.org  Wed Jan 17 03:37:48 2001
From: fredrik at effbot.org (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 08:37:48 GMT
Subject: Curses module for Python 2.0 for Windows NT
References: <mailman.979719258.23519.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <wRc96.7125$AH6.1093614@newsc.telia.net>

jurgen.defurne at philips.com wrote:
> I am busy automating tasks across some Windows NT workstations, where
> I control another program (Continuus/CM, if any one knows that).
> Unfortunately, that control is not that easy. Ihave built a GUI interface,
> but I am not really satisfied with it, so I want to simplify it somewhat so that
> it can run in a DOS box using curses. Is there a curses add-on available
> for the Win32 binaries ? It sure isn't part of the distribution I am using,
> which is still the BeOpen version of Python 2.0

if you can live with a simpler API, here's an alternative
console driver for windows:

    http://effbot.org/efflib/console

Cheers /F




From danielk at aracnet.com  Sat Jan 13 11:39:42 2001
From: danielk at aracnet.com (Daniel Klein)
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 08:39:42 -0800
Subject: making a string copy of a list
References: <slrn95vuqg.1pa.warlock@gargoyle.myth>
Message-ID: <4m016t8kkpphqj3gu5jevpvamp8i3dap8n@4ax.com>

On Fri, 12 Jan 2001 22:53:04 -0800, warlock at eskimo.com (Jim Richardson) wrote:

>OK, I swear I've looked for this, but how do I make a copy of a list, into a
>string, complete with commas seperating the entries in the list? 

The simplest way would be

	s = str(mylist)[1:-1] # removes the enclosing square brackets

This does not remove brackets, parenthesis or curly braces from members inside
the list. For instance,

>>> mylist = ['dead','parrot']
>>> print str(mylist)[1:-1]
'dead', 'parrot'
>>> mylist = [['dead','parrot'], (1, 2, 3), {1:'foo', 2:'bar'}]
>>> print str(mylist)[1:-1]
['dead', 'parrot'], (1, 2, 3), {2: 'bar', 1: 'foo'}

Daniel Klein



From rturpin at my-deja.com  Mon Jan 15 18:20:30 2001
From: rturpin at my-deja.com (rturpin at my-deja.com)
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 23:20:30 GMT
Subject: Determining names of instances
References: <e7L86.554$KD3.238565@typhoon.aracnet.com>
Message-ID: <9400jl$b2u$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

In article <e7L86.554$KD3.238565 at typhoon.aracnet.com>,
  "Daniel Klein" <DanielK at jBASE.com> wrote:
> The question is, is there a way for the object 'foo'
> to know that its name is 'foo'?

Sure. Search the namespace dictionaries for which names
are bound to the the object. When it comes to introspection
few languages beat Python. But (a) this is inefficient,
(b) it is questionable programming, likely a mistake
unless you are writing special debug code, or playing
games with the implementation, (c) other names may be
bound to the same object, including names in currently
inactive namespaces, and (d) the binding changes. Consider
the following code:

  global bar
  foo = Foo()
  bar = foo
  return

Afer the assignment to "bar", the names "foo" and "bar"
reference exactly the same object. Which name do you want?
After the return, the binding to "foo" disappears, while
the binding to "bar" remains.

Russell



Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Thu Jan 18 18:18:10 2001
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 18:18:10 -0500
Subject: who imported me?
References: <947jh5$puv$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <947ti8$ect$1@news.udel.edu>

> (Hopefully) easy question: I'm writing a module that uses values in
> variables from the script that imported it.
>
> How can I tell which script is importing me?

I do not believe you can, unless the importing module were to stick a flag
somewhere accessible by the imported module.  (Besides which, a module can
be imported multiple times by one or more other modules.)

> Is there some easier way to get the parent module's variable values?

The 'parent' module can stick values into an imported module, or probably,
include them as parameters in fu;nction calls.

Terry J. Reedy





From moshez at zadka.site.co.il  Wed Jan 24 09:29:20 2001
From: moshez at zadka.site.co.il (Moshe Zadka)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 16:29:20 +0200 (IST)
Subject: Python: what's the best way to copy files on a LAN?
In-Reply-To: <3a6f0af0.272878461@news.interchange.ubc.ca>
References: <3a6f0af0.272878461@news.interchange.ubc.ca>
Message-ID: <20010124142920.7FAE9A83E@darjeeling.zadka.site.co.il>

On Wed, 24 Jan 2001 17:04:50 GMT, kmbotha at netinfo.ubc.ca (Kris Botha) wrote:

> I mean security-wise. I'd like to use FTPLIB but am hesitant about the
> security issues involved in using that plain-text protocol.

You probably mean "clear text", not "plain text".
Why not use HTTPS? Or, even better, set up a port-forward via ssh,
and then use plain HTTP. Python can do HTTP both in client and server,
so there shouldn't be a problem.
-- 
Moshe Zadka <sig at zadka.site.co.il>
This is a signature anti-virus. 
Please stop the spread of signature viruses!
Fingerprint: 4BD1 7705 EEC0 260A 7F21  4817 C7FC A636 46D0 1BD6



From mceesay at coldspam.com  Wed Jan 24 13:36:24 2001
From: mceesay at coldspam.com (Mamading Ceesay)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 18:36:24 -0000
Subject: Tkinter spreadsheet or textgrid widget?
References: <94l7fo$k6k$1@news.fas.harvard.edu>
Message-ID: <GhFb6.150759$B11.1358936@monolith.news.easynet.net>

William Ryu wrote in message <94l7fo$k6k$1 at news.fas.harvard.edu>...
>Tried a Google search but didn't come up with anything. Can someone point
>me to a Tkinter textgrid (i.e. spreadsheet type text/number entry) widget?
>


TkTable <http://www.hobbs.wservice.com/tcl/capp/> is probably your best bet.
It is actually a Tk widget, so it may require a little more work than a
Tkinter
widget to use.

Regards,
Mamading.





From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sat Jan  6 04:18:24 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2001 10:18:24 +0100
Subject: enhancing module objects (was Re: 2001 Enchancement Wishlist)
References: <011001c07726$5ced6be0$102b2bc1@cadlab.it>, <3A4CEACB.220998A0@javanet.com> <Ro736.2511$Qb7.273102@newsb.telia.net> <92j83r13gh@news1.newsguy.com> <20001231175940.A5435@xs4all.nl> <008301c07501$c036ae40$43931497@martelli> <20010104165116.F2467@xs4all.nl> <008601c07675$0adf2020$102b2bc1@cadlab.it> <20010104203232.P402@xs4all.nl> <006801c0769b$ac0cc3a0$9d8a1a97@martelli> <20010105110459.Q402@xs4all.nl> <20010106013001.17FB7A84F@darjeeling.zadka.site.co.il>
Message-ID: <01d001c077c7$675b2e40$b3ff1a97@martelli>

> > Recognizing (e.g.) a "def __setattr__" at module-level as providing
> > a similar function to a similarly-named method in a class instance
> > would (in my opinion) not 'complicate' the Python language: it would
> > just extend an already-existing concept
>
> For the record, I'm heavily +1 on the concept. Sadly it's sure
> not to make it to 2.1, as the PEP deadline is due. But you can
> write a PEP which will be considered for 2.2.

OK, but, as I kept on musing in the other post, I'm not sure adding this
(recognition of a __setattr__ function in a module object) is the best
way to provide the related functionality -- as opposed to similar work
on dictionary objects themselves (so that modules, and anything else
using a dictionary, can equally benefit) OR just accepting any suitable
mapping object where currently only real builtin dictionaries can go, an
often-mooted concept.

I think the latter approach would be 'simplest' _from a Python user's
viewpoint_ -- in fact, I think most budding Pythonistas are _surprised_
to learn that in certain roles they cannot use (e.g.) an instance of a
UserDict-derived class of their own, but only a real bona fide builtin
dict object will do.  One gets so used to the convenience and power
of "anything implementing such-and-such interface goes here".  And I
gather an existing PEP raises just this restriction in a different context
(I forget whether it was exec, eval, or both).

I guess I'm still not fully clear on the PEP concept: is it appropriate when
a range of possible approaches to providing a certain functionality are
still under consideration, or only when one single approach is being
proposed?  The lack of a formal arrangement for specifically discussing
a given PEP sort of suggests the latter -- in which case discussing it a
bit more here might be a better preliminary...?


Alex



_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com




From aleksei.guzev at bigfoot.com  Sun Jan 28 02:43:57 2001
From: aleksei.guzev at bigfoot.com (Aleksei Guzev)
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 12:43:57 +0500
Subject: [Python-Help] Globals
In-Reply-To: <004601c088fa$e7aab5e0$0341fea9@arthur>
Message-ID: <LPENKAFBJDPOFHMCEBOMMEILCDAA.aleksei.guzev@bigfoot.com>

 I meant the following doesn't work

	#
	# module A.py
	#

	class CA:
		def foo( self ):
			print g_var
		def __getstate__( self ):
			return "CA"
		def __setstate__( self, state ):
			print state


next file

	#
	# script B.py
	#

	import shelve
	import A

	va = A.CA()

	s = shelve.open( 's' )
	s[ "va" ] = va
	s.close()

the last file:

	#
	# C.py
	#	

	import shelve

	s = shelve.open( 's', 'r' )
	va = s[ "va" ]
	s.close()

	g_var = "the string to be printed"

	va.foo()

Run <B.py>. Next exit Python shell. Then restart the shell and run <C.py>. 
g_var whould be undefined in va.foo().





From danielk at aracnet.com  Wed Jan  3 08:51:21 2001
From: danielk at aracnet.com (Daniel Klein)
Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 05:51:21 -0800
Subject: using 'global' across source files.
References: <3A51CC63.A90A0E0B@sara.nl> <01s35tgmoirgtplgs46402vqpootc2oe7u@4ax.com> <slrn953rth.pcr.scarblac@pino.selwerd.nl>
Message-ID: <1hb65tc1tjgtj91eig1sf96hotgbkipve7@4ax.com>

On 2 Jan 2001 15:15:01 GMT, scarblac at pino.selwerd.nl (Remco Gerlich)
wrote:

>You mean val = funcs.change_val(val).

Yep!


From trotts at mit.edu  Sun Jan 28 17:28:44 2001
From: trotts at mit.edu (Issac Trotts)
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 14:28:44 -0800
Subject: Hack request: rational numbers
In-Reply-To: <3A749696.2BD57BA9@alcyone.com>; from max@alcyone.com on Sun, Jan 28, 2001 at 02:00:54PM -0800
References: <951h34$tch$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, <Pine.LNX.4.21.0101251759070.28148-100000@kev.ioc.ee> <mailman.980702855.389.python-list@python.org> <2W%c6.128157$ge4.46108705@news2.rdc2.tx.home.com> <3A749696.2BD57BA9@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <20010128142844.C711@llnl.gov>

> (There is a geometric algebra module for Python, by the way.)

I've been looking for something like this.  Do you know the URL?

Issac




From sholden at holdenweb.com  Wed Jan  3 03:42:17 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2001 03:42:17 -0500
Subject: A Suggestion for Python Colon Syntax
References: <mailman.977446446.16022.python-list@python.org> <slrn947q64.jkg.zeitlin@seth.lpthe.jussieu.fr> <mailman.977594969.22002.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <kDB46.11276$uq.469399@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>

Thomas Wouters <thomas at xs4all.net> wrote in message
news:mailman.977594969.22002.python-list at python.org...
> On Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 11:50:28PM +0000, Vadim Zeitlin wrote:
>
> >  BTW, what was the real rationale for adding composed assignment
operators
> > (+=) to Python 2.0 (which I'm really extremely glad to have now)? Wasn't
> > it meant to make Python more attractive to the people coming from C-lie
> > languages?
>
> No, honestly not. If that was the case, '++' and '--' would have been
added
> too. The funny part is that I never saw a concious decision not to add
them
> being made, everyone involved (Guido, Michael Hudson, me, the rest of
> python-dev) seemed to naturally accept that the auto-inc/dec operators had
> no place in Python, and that in itself is plenty of validation, don't you
> think ? :-)
>
>
Guido-probably-made-all-decisions-about-Python-years-ago--he's-just-waiting-
>  -for-people-to-_implement_-them-ly y'rs,

No.  He _will_ make them years ago, once concensus has appeared in the
present.

> --
> Thomas Wouters <thomas at xs4all.net>
>
> Hi! I'm a .signature virus! copy me into your .signature file to help me
spread!
>
paradoxical-ly y'rs  - steve






From fredrik at effbot.org  Wed Jan 24 06:02:21 2001
From: fredrik at effbot.org (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 11:02:21 GMT
Subject: Parsing html links
References: <3A6EB2F7.D26C7974@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <1Dyb6.9010$Qb7.1276496@newsb.telia.net>

"Joonas" wrote:
> How can I make a script im Python that changes all
> 'http://myaddress.spam ' into '<a
> href="http://myaddress.spam">http://myaddress.spam<a/>'

recently seen on comp.lang.python:

Subject: Re: URL replacement in text
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001

Steve Holden wrote:
> Note that this won't cope with some of the more pathological URLs (such as
> those with CGI arguments [http://system/cgi?arg1=val1] or those which link
> to a named anchor in the target page [http://system/pageref#target-name]).

import re

links = re.compile(r"(?i)(?:http|ftp|gopher):[\w.~/%#?&=-]+")

def fixlink(m):
    href = m.group(0)
    return "<a href='%s'>%s</a>" % (href, href)

sometext = """
here's another link: http://www.pythonware.com?FOO=1&bar=10#BAR
"""

print links.sub(fixlink, sometext)

Cheers /F




From sbalu at nyx.net  Mon Jan 22 14:10:17 2001
From: sbalu at nyx.net (sarayu balu)
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 19:10:17 GMT
Subject: Newbie Question
Message-ID: <980192858.449719@iris.nyx.net>

 I just downloaded pygtk-0.6.6 and installed it.
On trying the examples, I am getting an error-
ImportError: /usr/local/lib/python2.0/site-packages/
_gtkModule.so: undefined symbol: g_thread_init .
I have no clue as to what's going on, is it a gtk
library problem, or python2.0 problem ?

Hope one of you can help.

Thanks,
- SB



From MarkH at ActiveState.com  Thu Jan 18 20:59:21 2001
From: MarkH at ActiveState.com (Mark Hammond)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 01:59:21 GMT
Subject: Python calls Trace Handler fn within call to PyObject_Str
References: <3RM96.183472$59.49047774@news3.rdc1.on.home.com>
Message-ID: <94871m$bpo$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

In article <3RM96.183472$59.49047774 at news3.rdc1.on.home.com>,
  "Tom" <NoSpam at NoSpam.com> wrote:
>
> My C++ module calls the PyObject_Str function, as so:
>
>   PyObject* pPyStr = PyObject_Str( m_pPyObject );  // New Ref
>
> Stepping through the code in my debugger, I see that beneath
(or 'within')
> this call, Python is calling my trace handler function.  The trace
event is
> a 'call'.  Is this normal behavior?

If the process of converting the object to a string calls .py code,
then yes.

Mark.


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From sholden at holdenweb.com  Tue Jan  2 16:53:45 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2001 16:53:45 -0500
Subject: why no "do : until"?
References: <92jj3j$ff7$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <slrn94smds.150.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <FOt36.17$vd1.2224@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com> <slrn94t1vj.150.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <mqw36.50$9s1.10042@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com> <slrn94tqf3.150.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <3A4F3671.AAA18BFF@stroeder.com> <slrn94uht3.150.grey@teleute.rpglink.com>
Message-ID: <j7s46.10264$uq.360832@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>

Steve Lamb <grey at despair.rpglink.com> wrote in message
news:slrn94uht3.150.grey at teleute.rpglink.com...
> On Sun, 31 Dec 2000 14:36:49 +0100, Michael Str?der <michael at stroeder.com>
> wrote:
> >While you're at it: Can you please *plonk* me too? We might disagree
> >in the future and we can avoid flame wars in advance and save work.
> >And it's a great honor for me to be in the same kill-file as the
> >Eff-bot.
>
>     I don't plonk people for disagreements.  I plonk them for stupidity.
> There's a difference.  Since you have a moderate wit that shows at least
some
> intelligence.
>
> --
>          Steve C. Lamb         | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm
your
>          ICQ: 5107343          | main connection to the switchboard of
souls.
> -------------------------------+------------------------------------------
---
>
At last we have a good example of the meaning of the epithet "plonker".

Sorry.  Couldn't resist.

pouring-fuel-on-the-flames-ly y'rs  - steve






From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Wed Jan 24 10:46:16 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 16:46:16 +0100
Subject: PSU uses emacs?
References: <948e4b$hm0$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <948fvj$oq1$1@panix6.panix.com> <3A67CDC3.7EACB07D@Lugoj.Com> <9490t009on@news2.newsguy.com> <3a685ef2.3403798@reading.news.pipex.net> <949rii0a76@news1.newsguy.com> <3a6eb2fa.2347467@reading.news.pipex.net>
Message-ID: <94mtc702d2h@news2.newsguy.com>

"Ray Drew" <ray_drew at yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:3a6eb2fa.2347467 at reading.news.pipex.net...
    [snip]
> I'm having problems getting the indentation right with gvim. I've got
> the following in my .vmrc file:
>
> au FileType py set ts=4
> au FileType py set sw=4
> au FileType py set expandtab on

I think you need to omit the 'on' here.

> au FileType py set ff=unix
>
> as far as I can make out from the docs, this should set those options
> for all .py files. Tabs appear as 4 chars in gvim but when viewed in
> an IDLE edtor window, tabs appear as 8 and throw a syntax error when

There should never be any tabs in files generated with vim if
'set expandtab' was executed.  Try a :set from within vim to
see all that's set; is expandtab among the variables shown?

> imported (files originally created in IDLE with tab space of 4). Do I
> need to do anything else to get this to work?

If you ever edit existing files that may have tabs in them, and
want to ensure they're turned into spaces, you may add to your
startfile something like:

au BufRead *.py %retab

but take care -- this will NOT make vim think the file has
been _modified_ yet, so a ZZ will not write the changes (you'll
need a :w to write anyway, although of course ZZ will also
write if you DO some editing which causes other changes).


Starting your startfile with a
    set verbose=9
will ensure you get a trace that will help you debug your
startfile settings.

I suspect that on comp.editors you may find people *much*
more skilled than me at VIM-tweaks:-).


Alex





From hadidab at yahoo.fr  Mon Jan 29 08:49:16 2001
From: hadidab at yahoo.fr (=?iso-8859-1?q?ABDENOUR=20HADID?=)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 14:49:16 +0100 (CET)
Subject: need Numeric module
Message-ID: <20010129134916.11960.qmail@web216.mail.yahoo.com>

hello..

I want to excute a scrit wich import a Numeric module,
where can I find this module?

thanks



___________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!? -- Pour dialoguer en direct avec vos amis, 
Yahoo! Messenger : http://fr.messenger.yahoo.com



From marco at crepido.com  Wed Jan 24 13:03:30 2001
From: marco at crepido.com (Marco =?iso-8859-1?Q?Seiri=F6?=)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 19:03:30 +0100
Subject: what GUI, please advise
References: <3A6F0B27.A88D11C9@crepido.com> <756399CF731B46D9.57530C0D0C9C2171.472E737DF76189F7@lp.airnews.net>
Message-ID: <3A6F18F2.536F27FE@crepido.com>

Well, something like this...

- I'm going to run mostly on Unix, although it would be nice
to be able to recycle my GUI knowledge when forced to
write for Windows. Mac, not very important...

- A GUI builder is a very big advantage. allmost a must.

- I like there to be all the widgets one would expect from
the Windows world.

- Easy of use for the programmer.

Don't know a thing about GNOME widgets, yet...



Cameron Laird wrote:

> >
> >There seems to be several good options to choose from when
> >it comes to GUI developent with Python.
> >
> >Can someone say somthing, without killing each other with flames, what
> >GUI one should choose?
> >
> >Stupid and impossible question by the way as everything depends as
> >usual... but anyway..
> >
> >/M
> >
>
> No.
>
> Unless you tell us more about yourself.  Do you care about
> portability to MacOS?  Does the GNOME widget collection
> infatuate you?  Do you prefer or disdain a GUI builder?
>
> In the meantime,
> <URL: http://starbase.neosoft.com/~claird/comp.lang.python/python_GUI.html >
> --
>
> Cameron Laird <claird at NeoSoft.com>
> Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
> Personal:  http://starbase.neosoft.com/~claird/home.html



From hamish_lawson at yahoo.co.uk  Tue Jan  9 10:56:42 2001
From: hamish_lawson at yahoo.co.uk (Hamish Lawson)
Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2001 15:56:42 GMT
Subject: Grab text from html with user and pass???
References: <Z5g66.16889$0x5.1386532@news3.cableinet.net>
Message-ID: <93fcbm$rag$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

Paul Goodyear wrote:

> I know for well that the password is correct

I realise I may be stating the obvious, but when you say that you know
that the password is correct, does this mean that you have actually
been able to access the page using an ordinary browser?

Hamish Lawson


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From gbreed at cix.compulink.co.uk  Thu Jan 11 11:10:16 2001
From: gbreed at cix.compulink.co.uk (gbreed at cix.compulink.co.uk)
Date: 11 Jan 2001 16:10:16 GMT
Subject: ActivePython2.0 - Server Side objects for ASP problem
References: <3A5DD081.F37275A@gte.net>
Message-ID: <93klt8$qon$1@plutonium.compulink.co.uk>

In article <3A5DD081.F37275A at gte.net>, sandj.williams at gte.net (Steve 
Williams) wrote:

> Danger Will Robinson!!
> 
> You can, indeed, write and install a COM object on the server before 
> bedtime,
> but you might be up all night getting your client to talk to it.  Some 
> pitfalls:
> 
> 1)    The client doesn't have Python installed.  It uses MS Access or 
> VB or
> Excel or Word.  How do you register your COM server on the client?   
> Whose
> classid/appid do you use?  Light a taper and go down into the regedit 
> dungeon.

Dude!  The subject line says "Server Side objects".  ASP can indeed call 
server side objects.  The client doesn't have to know anything about them.

The following may well be problems, but I've not had much trouble with 
Python COM servers.  Now DCOM, that's a different kettle of ball games ...

> 2)    When you try to use the COM object you get 'Permission Denied'.  
> Time to
> read a ton of MS Q documents and maybe talk to an unfriendly and 
> ignorant NT
> administrator.
> 
> 3)    When you try to use the COM object, you get 'ActiveX can't 
> create. . .'.
> Time for some more bedtime reading.
> 
> 5)    You call your friends and they say "I've never had that problem, 
> maybe you
> should install MTS. . ."


From moshez at zadka.site.co.il  Fri Jan 19 14:13:14 2001
From: moshez at zadka.site.co.il (Moshe Zadka)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 21:13:14 +0200 (IST)
Subject: How to run script from interpreter?
In-Reply-To: <00ef01c081fd$375c2ab0$11260340@yin>
References: <00ef01c081fd$375c2ab0$11260340@yin>, <mailman.979855413.16209.python-list@python.org> <t6f37pmhbtd94@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <20010119191314.5A489A83E@darjeeling.zadka.site.co.il>

On Fri, 19 Jan 2001, "Dan Rolander" <dan.rolander at marriott.com> wrote:
> This doesn't work for me. I know how to import and how to use the if
> __name__ trick, but how can I execute a script from the interactive Python
> interpreter? That is, can I load a script and have it run from inside the
> interpreter? (I'm sure this is easy I'm just not seeing it.)

execfile(script_name)

E.g.,

execfile("test.py")
-- 
Moshe Zadka <sig at zadka.site.co.il>
This is a signature anti-virus. 
Please stop the spread of signature viruses!
Fingerprint: 4BD1 7705 EEC0 260A 7F21  4817 C7FC A636 46D0 1BD6



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sat Jan  6 14:26:38 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2001 20:26:38 +0100
Subject: mxTools (was Re: why no "do : until"?)
References: <mailman.978711906.28690.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <937rqs01sal@news1.newsguy.com>

"Simon Brunning" <SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk> wrote in message
news:mailman.978711906.28690.python-list at python.org...
    [snip]
> Marc Lemburg's mxTools includes an indices function - indices(a) is
> synonymous with range(len(a)).

...which reminds me: why no PEPs about adding to Python's core some
of the nicest ideas in Lemburg's neat mxTools...?  I assume there must
be a reason (e.g., Guido must already have seen them all and decided
they don't belong in the core, or something), but I'd like to know...


Alex





From msoulier at nortelnetworks.com  Fri Jan 12 11:16:53 2001
From: msoulier at nortelnetworks.com (Michael P. Soulier)
Date: 12 Jan 2001 16:16:53 GMT
Subject: A small suggestion for Python
References: <3A5F27F7.30268D9A@erols.com>
Message-ID: <93nall$7cd$1@bmerhc5e.ca.nortel.com>

In article <3A5F27F7.30268D9A at erols.com>, Edward C. Jones wrote:
>I have been programming in Python for several years. I still
>occasionally make mistakes with functions (such as sort) that
>return only "None". I suggest that functions like sort should
>return either "Nothing" or nothing. "Nothing" would be exactly
>like "None" except it can't be assigned. Whether "Nothing" or
>nothing is used, the statement "x= y.sort()" would raise a
>run-time Exception.

    Or perhaps some kind of pragma to enable this behaviour?

    Mike

-- 
Michael P. Soulier, TD12, SKY  Tel: 613-765-4699 (ESN: 39-54699)
Optical Networks, Nortel Networks, SDE Pegasus
"...the word HACK is used as a verb to indicate a massive amount
of nerd-like effort."  -Harley Hahn, A Student's Guide to UNIX
Nortel Linux User's Group Ottawa: (internal) http://nlug.ca.nortel.com


From muk_pr at yahoo.com  Fri Jan 19 08:22:04 2001
From: muk_pr at yahoo.com (Victor Black)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 15:22:04 +0200
Subject: How to get method's arguments
Message-ID: <t6gedbl259o724@corp.supernews.com>

1.How does IDLE show the argument list of a method or procedure.
e.g when you write "dir(" a hint writing "dir([object]) -> list of strings"
pops up.
(The sources are available but overwhelming)
2.Are there any other open source IDEs for python ?

 Thanks.




From tim.one at home.com  Sat Jan 13 22:17:33 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 22:17:33 -0500
Subject: Web devel with python. Whats the best route?
In-Reply-To: <J6686.62593$_G5.8625488@typhoon.nyroc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCMEHNIIAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Penhasco Crawford]
> Por que est? todos afixar no portugu?s? Eu sinto esquerdo para
> fora agora.

Os povos que vivem na casa portuguese n?o devem jogar pedras de Enlish.

"the-peoples-who-live-in-the-house-portuguese-do-not-have-
    to-play-rocks-of-Enlish"-isn't-exactly-the-translation-
    i-was-hoping-to-get-back-ly y'rs  - tim




From loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de  Mon Jan  1 09:09:07 2001
From: loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de (Martin von Loewis)
Date: 01 Jan 2001 15:09:07 +0100
Subject: Bug? in os.chown()
References: <3A4FC0DD.530F90E6@ev1.net>
Message-ID: <p6q7l4fs6t8.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>

David Lambert <dave_lambert at ev1.net> writes:

> I am running Python 2.0 on Mandrake Linux 7.2 and have come across an
> apparent anomaly with os.chown(). Running a process as root, I can
> change any file's ownerships apart from symbolic links. No error is
> given, but the ownership refuses to be changed. Is this a feature or a
> bug? How do I change a symbolic link's owner and group?

Python delegates  the call  to Linux,  so if anything,  it's a  bug or
feature  of Linux. In  this case,  it's a  feature of  Linux: chown(2)
modifies  the file  behind the  symbolic link,  not the  symbolic link
itself  (I  believe  in  conformance  with POSIX,  which  makes  it  a
feature).    To    change    the    symbolic    link    itself,    use
lchown(2).  Unfortunately,   lchown  is  not  exposed   in  the  Posix
module. If you have a need for it, I recommend to make a bug report at
sourceforge.net/projects/python.  Better  yet, submit  a patch  to the 
posix module.

Regards,
Martin


From stuarts at 171.69.180.197  Fri Jan 12 14:59:16 2001
From: stuarts at 171.69.180.197 (Stuart Stanley)
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 19:59:16 -0000
Subject: "Full" object and class pickling?
Message-ID: <979329680.407225@sj-nntpcache-3>

I am doing some experimenting with mobile objects.  I.E., python
objects that physically migrate from process to process via some
mechanism.  I had thought (c)pickle was my ticket, but pickle does
not bring the _code_ with.  Does anyone know a mechanism to:

  1) "pickle" the _complete_ object, including its byte-code?
  2) "pickle" a class so I can create instances from it without using
      imports?  I.E., I want to migrate the classes used in return values
      from the above (#1) transported objects and use them to create objects
      that can do things like compare against the return values from the
      migratory objects...
      
For a number of reasons I need to avoid doing imports in the "non-home"
processes...
      
Clues? Hints?  Complete packages that does all this already? ;)

Thank you -- stuart


-- 
 "Computer Science is no more about computers than | Stuart Stanley
 astronomy is about telescopes." - E. W. Dijkstra  | stuarts at cisco.com
                                                   | Cisco Systems, inc
                                                   | St Paul, MN
                                                   | 612.578.6412


From SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk  Fri Jan  5 11:21:26 2001
From: SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk (Simon Brunning)
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 16:21:26 -0000 
Subject: why no "do : until"?
Message-ID: <31575A892FF6D1118F5800600846864D5B16A6@intrepid>

> From:	Tim Peters [SMTP:tim.one at home.com]
> A study I did at the time said that about 15% of all "for" loops in Python
> code were of the form
> 
>     for i in range(len(a)):
> 
> and that's both an obscure and inefficient way to spell the underlying
> idea.
 
Marc Lemburg's mxTools includes an indices function - indices(a) is
synonymous with range(len(a)).

Cheers,
Simon Brunning
TriSystems Ltd.
sbrunning at trisystems.co.uk





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From neilh at scintilla.org  Tue Jan 30 19:36:32 2001
From: neilh at scintilla.org (Neil Hodgson)
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 00:36:32 GMT
Subject: Using PythonWin Python Rich Edit Control in MFC App
References: <956vrc$eon$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <k6Jd6.94961$xW4.725232@news-server.bigpond.net.au>

btheld2 at my-deja.com:

> ...  Basically, I want a control that I can use as a python
> command line in a dialog that acts like the one in PythonWin.exe.  I
> have looked at scintilla, but if I use that, I need to implement all of
> the python specific stuff for indenting, coloring, etc...  It would be
> much easier just to use a control from the PythonWin.exe if possible.

   PythonWin uses Scintilla for this purpose but enhances Scintilla with
quite a lot of Python code much of which is shared with IDLE. It is not
packaged up in a form that would be easy to reuse in a C++/MFC application.
OTOH, PythonWin is an MFC application and is designed to be extensible, so
if you were to base your application on PythonWin then you could include its
Interactive Window.

   Some other toolkits (wxPython and JPython, IIRC) have developed what you
are looking for but their Python console components would only be easily
reusable within projects based on those toolkits.

   Neil





From rcameszREMOVETHIS at dds.removethistoo.nl  Fri Jan 12 21:28:17 2001
From: rcameszREMOVETHIS at dds.removethistoo.nl (Robert Amesz)
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 02:28:17 GMT
Subject: why no "do : until"?
References: <mailman.979188492.12187.python-list@python.org> <90278A4rcamesz@127.0.0.1> <mailman.979261813.31482.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <902820CBFrcamesz@127.0.0.1>

D-Man wrote:

>On Fri, Jan 12, 2001 at 12:33:58AM +0000, Robert Amesz wrote:
>[snip]
>| 
>| Well, to put in my fl 0,02 (soon te be about E 0,01 <g>) I have to
>| say I feel that syntax is flawed: not only does it break the block
>| in two parts (whereas a dedent in other cases means the end of the
>| block is reached), but it's also visually ambiguous because a
>| 'while' could be the start of a loop, but it might also be
>| somewhere in the middle of one.
>| 
>| As I prefer programming languages to be as context-free as
>| possible, I'd like to make a counter-proposal:
>| 
>|      do:
>|           something
>|           until condition
>|           something else
>| 
>
>This also breaks the indent-denotes-block-structure style.  Is the
>"until" clause really a part of the "something" block?

Well, no, my point is that the entire block should run from 'something' 
to 'something else', following the normal flow of the program. The 
'until' is a statement for breaking out of the block, and therefore it 
should be part of it visually.

Also, splitting the block is a bad thing from the point of view of
the compiler: after a dedent the compiler will have to look ahead an
extra token to determine wether the loop just ends there, or
continues with an 'until'. Changing the lookahead in a parser can
cause a huge loss of performance, and older parser generators can
only cope with LL(0) grammars anyway. Also, such inconsistencies may
have the effect of making some error message more obscure and
unhelpful, and that will really make the syntactic sugar turn sour on
you. 

There's a way out of this dilemma, and that is to disallow 'do:' 
whithout an 'until' in the loop, but then we'd have to lose the ability 
to use 'do:' as an infinite loop and we'd still be stuck with the 
'while 1:' idiom.


>If it is adopted I think it ought to stand out more tying it more
>closely to the "do".  I wouldn't mind if, say, the until was to
>recieve a half-indent (or half-dedent depending on your view) as
>compared to the "something" and "something else" blocks.

If you want the 'until' to stand out more, just put an empty line after 
it. That's a lot easier than breaking Python's basic structure with 
half-dedents. Take a look:


      do:
           something
           until condition

           something else


That seems clear enough to me.


Also, one common case, when the 'until' is at the end of the loop, 
would be problematic if you dedent the until. You either get:


      do:
           something
           something else
      until condition

Oh, great, no colon or block after 'until': another special case to 
confuse the compiler and Python programmers alike.


Or - wait for it:

      do:
           something
           something else
      until condition:
           pass

Ugh, yacc![1], this is truly ugly. It's more like syntactic artificial 
sweetener this way.


In short, my proposal may be a compromise, but it gets the job doen, 
and would only call for a modest addition to Python's grammar, and thus 
would only require simple changes to the bytecode-compiler. It may be a 
low cost low impact proposal, but it would both add the 'do: until' 
idiom and provide an alternative for the 'while 1:' convention at the 
same time.


Robert Amesz
-- 
[1] Horrible pun alert. You may groan.


From Bill.Scherer at VerizonWireless.com  Fri Jan 19 09:40:13 2001
From: Bill.Scherer at VerizonWireless.com (Bill Scherer)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 09:40:13 -0500
Subject: Best Python Web Site
References: <6176E3D8E36FD111B58900805FA7E0F80CCF62DF@mcnc-mdm1-ex01>
Message-ID: <3A6851CD.A152D1B9@VerizonWireless.com>

http://www.pythonware.com/daily/

"Rolander, Dan" wrote:
> 
> The http://www.python.org website seems to have many pages that have not
> been updated in a long time. Particularly distressful are the pages that say
> things like "This information is obsolete but we don't have time to update
> it". I like to scour the web everyday for updated Python info. What are the
> best sites for getting new Python information? Any thoughts on this?
> 
> Thanks,
> Dan
> 
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

-- 
William K. Scherer
Sr. Member of Applications Staff - Verizon Wireless
Bill.Scherer_at_VerizonWireless.com



From nils.hensel at online.de  Wed Jan 24 18:42:50 2001
From: nils.hensel at online.de (Nils Hensel)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 00:42:50 +0100
Subject: The fundamentals...
References: <F8Jb6.30683$pp2.2619941@news3.cableinet.net>
Message-ID: <94npcb$jit$1@news.online.de>

Hi Mike,

import string
boo = string.join (open('\\Windows\\Desktop\\test.txt').read().split('.'),
'\n')
open('\\Windows\\Desktop\\out.txt', 'w').write(boo)

is definitely shorter. I don't know if I consider it to be more elegant.
Anayway, you should note that the string object returned by the read
function now has a builtin split function, refering to itself, and that you
need not close the file if it's not assigned to a variable. The file closes
itself when there are no more references to it. And if you prefer to close
your files explicitely don't forget to close the "test" file too :)
Enjoy Python,

Nils


"Mike Read" <mread at cableinet.co.uk> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:F8Jb6.30683$pp2.2619941 at news3.cableinet.net...
> Newbie first script alert!  No problem - it does what I intended (which
> probably says more about Python than me...), but I just wanted to start
> off on the right foot - is it as elegant as it could be?  If it's not
blindingly
> obvious, I was separating fields around a period delimiter.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Mike
>
>
> import string
> test = open('\\Windows\\Desktop\\test.txt', 'r')
> boo = test.read()
> boo = string.split(boo , ". ")
> boo = string.join(boo , "\n")
>
> outfile = open('\\Windows\\Desktop\\out.txt', 'w')
> outfile.write(boo)
> outfile.close()
>
>
>




From tbryan at python.net  Mon Jan  8 19:19:22 2001
From: tbryan at python.net (Thomas A. Bryan)
Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2001 19:19:22 -0500
Subject: Is there a Python binding for daVinci?
References: <3A5A15CE.30C8DD48@raqia.com>
Message-ID: <3A5A590A.C4C20FBB@python.net>

David Lees wrote:
> 
> I would like to display directed graphs and daVinci has been
> recommended.  Does anyone know if there is a Python binding or a Python
> equivalent?
> 
> daVinci is at http://www.tzi.de/daVinci/

There is a Python interface to working with the node definitions 
and such.  I don't remember where I got it, and I've never really 
used it.  I still have a copy if you can't find it from someone else.

---Tom


From tim.one at home.com  Sun Jan 14 02:04:21 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 02:04:21 -0500
Subject: why is a negative shift value illegal?
In-Reply-To: <Nhb86.43336$ge4.16574483@news2.rdc2.tx.home.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCMEICIIAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Rainer Deyke]
> I don't buy the speed argument.

If that implies you do buy the other arguments, there's no point haggling
over the weakest one <0.5 wink>.

> ...
> Consider 16 bit color formats.
> ...

OK, I did.  I concluded that if I were doing significant amounts of pixel
twiddling, I sure as heck wouldn't be writing it in Python no matter what
gimmicks were added to shifts (an extension module, sure, but not in Python
proper).  OTOH, if I weren't doing significant amounts, speed would be a
non-issue.

In every case Python raises an exception, *someone* eventually says "hey!
let's make it mean something instead!".  That way lies madness.  Allowing
negative shift counts simply isn't a compelling idea, and seems at least as
likely to mask program bugs as to do anyone a lick of real good.  I've
gotten ValueErrors from shift counts that mistakenly went negative, and I'm
glad I did (shifting "in the other" direction would have been dead wrong).
I'm still one-quarter unhappy that modern Python allows, e.g.

    sequence[-1]

Python originally called that an error, and that caught bugs too.  But at
least indexing "from the right" is very useful very often for very many
programmers (e.g., string[:-1] is probably in every Python programmer's
idiom bag).

if-you-still-like-it-write-a-pep!-ly y'rs  - tim




From hdemers at venus.astro.umontreal.ca  Fri Jan 19 11:22:22 2001
From: hdemers at venus.astro.umontreal.ca (Hugues Demers)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 16:22:22 GMT
Subject: ImportError: undefined symbol
Message-ID: <slrn96gplf.8jf.hdemers@polar.astro.umontreal.ca>

Hi,

This question must have come up many times, but I cannot find any answers
in the official documentation or the FAQ or this newsgroup. So here it is.

I'm writing a small extension in C++ that call functions from a C++ library
(GALib). My extension looks like this (it's a test):

#include <ga/ga.h>
#include <math.h>
#include <Python.h>

float objective( GAGenome & );
void gaFit();

extern "C" {

static PyObject* fit( PyObject* self, PyObject* args )
{
    gaFit();
    Py_INCREF( py_None );
    return Py_None;
}

static PyMethodDef gaPhotoMethods[] = {
    {"fit", fit, METH_VARARGS},
    {NULL, NULL}
};

static initgaPhoto()
{
    (void) Py_InitModule( "gaPhoto", gaPhotoMethods );
}

} // End of extern "C"

void gaFit()
{
    // Call to C++ library
}

void objective( GAGenome& c )
{
    // do stuff
}

My setup file is written like this:

*shared*

gaPhoto gaPhotomodule.cpp -L/usr/local/lib -lga 

When in Python I import the module I get this error:

ImportError: ./gaPhotomodule.so: undefined symbol: __ls__7ostreamPCc

Can someone help me?

Thanks
Hugues


From strupl at my-deja.com  Tue Jan  9 11:59:58 2001
From: strupl at my-deja.com (strupl at my-deja.com)
Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2001 16:59:58 GMT
Subject: jython beta question
References: <93305c$7ej$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <93cetr$f7f$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <93fg2a$uaf$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

Hi all,

in my previous mail i described the way how to integrate a new language
with NetBeans. I looked at the Jython doc and it seems to be a new version
of JPython (JPython being supported in NetBeans ver. 3.1).

So the answer to the original question should probably be: it is highly
probable that in next version of NetBeans the new version of Jython
will be supported. Meanwhile you can (at your own risk) replace the
jpython.jar file with a new one and see what happens.

Sorry for the confusion.

David Strupl


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From fredrik at effbot.org  Sun Jan 21 05:02:23 2001
From: fredrik at effbot.org (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 10:02:23 GMT
Subject: Traversing A Directory For Files
References: <p9xa6.6875$65.40110@newsfeeds.bigpond.com>
Message-ID: <Psya6.7934$AH6.1261205@newsc.telia.net>

Ben wrote:
> I am looking for examples of a recusive Python algorithm to traverse a
> directory and all subdirectories for files and return them to a list for
> further processing.

os.path.walk

(you'll find sources in posixpath.py/ntpath.py)

here's a non-recursive version that's much easier to use:

    http://www.deja.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=695333869

Hope this helps!

Cheers /F




From nas at arctrix.com  Tue Jan 16 09:46:48 2001
From: nas at arctrix.com (Neil Schemenauer)
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 06:46:48 -0800
Subject: Binary list class, strings or longs?
In-Reply-To: <942cbc$7qp$1@news.gu.se>; from msandin@remove_this.hotmail.com on Tue, Jan 16, 2001 at 09:51:34PM +0100
References: <942cbc$7qp$1@news.gu.se>
Message-ID: <20010116064647.A8748@glacier.fnational.com>

Look at the standard modules array and mmap.  However, if you're doing
image manipulation then you probably want to get PIL.

  Neil



From zeitlin at seth.lpthe.jussieu.fr  Mon Jan 29 10:07:35 2001
From: zeitlin at seth.lpthe.jussieu.fr (Vadim Zeitlin)
Date: 29 Jan 2001 15:07:35 GMT
Subject: Tkinter vs wxPython: your opinions?
References: <3A6F899F.E164F628@home.com> <952lo9$qme$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <slrn97b1mq.jcj.zeitlin@seth.lpthe.jussieu.fr>

On Mon, 29 Jan 2001 02:49:46 GMT, thelazydogsback at my-deja.com <thelazydogsback at my-deja.com> wrote:
>(1) Does one toolkit behave better in a multi-threaded application than
>another? In addition to the design of the toolkit, any kit that uses
>native widgets has native restrictions on threading and the GUI (e.g.,
>only "main" thread talks to the GUI, etc.), so I'd guess that self-draw
>GUIs would have a chance of behaving better here.

 At least for Windows, this is not true as any toolkit is going to use GDI
calls (at least tkInter surely does, it might be possible to use DirectX or
whatever instead, but I don't think it's a good idea for a GUI toolkit) and
the usual restrictions about multiple GUI threads come from GDI layer, so you
gain nothing here.

>When threads spawned from the main thread
>need to update GUI state, what is the standard method used?

 In wxWindows you may either:

1. set a global variable (protected by a critical section) from the worker
   thread and check it in the main thread during the next idle loop iteration

or

2. use wxPostEvent() to send a (custom) event to the main GUI thread which
   will then get it some time later

> Does wx's doc/view architecture make this more straightforward?

 No, it predates the threads support by about 5 years so I don't think so.

>(2) I assume I could have an app the used both wx & tk at the window
>level,

 Assuming you can share the message loop between them...

> but is it possible to host WX inside of Tk, or visa-versa, at
> the frame and/or widget level?

 It should be possible to embed Tk in a C++ application in the "usual" way but
I don't know much about it. OTOH embedding wxWin into Tk application is
probably quite hard to do.

 Regards,
VZ

-- 
GCS/GM d? H+ s++:-- p2 au--- a- w+ v C+++ UBLS+++ P- L++ N++ E--- W++++ M? V--
-po+ R++ G`` !tv b+++ D--- e++++ u++ h--- f+ r++ n- y?


From infotechsys at pivot.net  Wed Jan 31 10:29:11 2001
From: infotechsys at pivot.net (Wayne)
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 10:29:11 -0500
Subject: Help in understanding some code!
Message-ID: <3A782F47.D078FBEC@pivot.net>

Hello,
I have  a Red Hat distro and I'm trying to emulate one of there
program's.
The program is netcfg.py The part that I'm trying to do is to allow the
user to click on a button, those that are at the top of the initial
window,
and get a form displayed.
The code that is at the end of this program reads as follows:

# magic to keep a root window from appearing
L = Label()
L.tk.call('wm','withdraw', '.')
del L

win = WindowFrame(Toplevel())
win.wait_window(win)

The whole program is over my head, but on my 5th reading I'm starting
to understand it I haven't figured out why they want to remove
the toplevel window and why do they have to create a labell to
do it. Also where will I find the syntax for the call statement.
I have a book title "Practical Programming in Tcl and Tk" by
Brent B Welch. I couldn find its use in the book.
TIA
Wayne




From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sat Jan 13 18:42:53 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 00:42:53 +0100
Subject: A small suggestion for Python
References: <3A5F27F7.30268D9A@erols.com> <G74HuE.AGn.0.sinope@news.jtan.com>
Message-ID: <93qpbc02n4a@news1.newsguy.com>

"Matt Dunford" <kno at jtan.com> wrote in message
news:G74HuE.AGn.0.sinope at news.jtan.com...
    [snip]
> Although, I wouldn't mind having a builtin method that returns a sorted
> array.  Then we could do something like this:
>
> dict = { 'this' : 1, 'that' : 2 }
> for key in dict.keys().sort():
> print key

And instead we have to do

    for key in return_sorted(dict.keys()):
        print key

Is it that much of a problem...?  return_sorted's pretty trivial too:

def return_sorted(alist):
    alist.sort()
    return alist


Alex





From michael at stroeder.com  Fri Jan 26 07:44:22 2001
From: michael at stroeder.com (Michael =?iso-8859-1?Q?Str=F6der?=)
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 13:44:22 +0100
Subject: Why isn't crypt.py in Win32 Python distribution?
References: <mailman.980510493.2537.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3A717126.BF8D346A@stroeder.com>

Tim Peters wrote:
> 
> cryptmodule.c, which is not compiled on Windows, because it relies on a
> non-standard external C function
> 
>     extern char * crypt(const char *, const char *);
> 
> that comes with Unix C libraries but is not supplied by Microsoft's C
> runtime.  So the only way it will ever show up on Windows is if someone
> contributes an unencumbered Windows implementation.

If the OpenSSL lib is around cryptmodule.c of Python 2.x could be
built against it. Not sure about Windows though...and I'm not a C
programmer...

Ciao, Michael.


From SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk  Fri Jan 12 08:47:26 2001
From: SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk (Simon Brunning)
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 13:47:26 -0000
Subject: is Python fully object oriented ?
Message-ID: <31575A892FF6D1118F5800600846864D5B16EA@intrepid>

> From:	Max M?ller Rasmussen [SMTP:maxm at normik.dk]
> From: Simon Brunning [mailto:SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk]
> 
> This came up in this tread recently - see
> <http://www.python.org/doc/FAQ.html#6.7>.
> 
> Yes but it only explains why there is a self at all, not why it has to be
> explicit.
> 
> I really cannot see why the second example here is better than the first.
> 
> class accumulator:
> 
>    def __init__():
>       self.sum = 0  # self is implicit here
> 
>    def add(value):
>       self.sum += value
> 
>    def getSum():
> 	return self.sum
> 
> class accumulator:
> 
>    def __init__(self):# self is explicit
>       self.sum = 0
> 
>    def add(self, value):
>       self.sum += value
> 
>    def getSum(self):
> 	return self.sum
> 
> Well not something I want to start a religious war about, but its annoying
> having an itch you can't scratch ;-)
> 
> Regards Max M
> 
 
Max,
Remember, Pythoneers don't *have* religious wars. We have reasoned
discussions. ;-)

I do see your point. Thing is though, if object instances were not marked in
some way, method locals would have to be. Either way, something would have
an itchy prefix. Putting the prefix on the object instances makes locals
consistent with ordinary, non-class functions.

Cheers,
Simon Brunning
TriSystems Ltd.
sbrunning at trisystems.co.uk





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accept liability for statements made which are clearly the senders own.



From dan.rolander at marriott.com  Sat Jan 20 18:25:21 2001
From: dan.rolander at marriott.com (Dan Rolander)
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 18:25:21 -0500
Subject: [XML-SIG] Re: Using Installer with PyXML
References: <02c401c08311$a66e8f00$11260340@yin> <200101202225.f0KMPl200861@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <037201c08338$42ce08a0$11260340@yin>

Thank you for your assistance Martin.  Although your analysis of the problem
("operator error") is close, I would probably more correctly identify it as
operator ignorance.  I'm still trying to figure out how to effectively use
PyXML and build standalone executables with it.  Since the Installer seems
to play by its own rules when it comes to imports, it is especially
challenging.

I have not found the xml-sig documentation, or the python library reference,
to be too helpful for someone new to xml processing, so I bought Sean
McGrath's book "XML Processing with Python" and have found that to be *very*
helpful. But his examples, which I was testing, use references to pyexpat.

I tested your suggestion of using "from xml.parsers import expat" vs.
"import pyexpat" and that works fine, but I'm not sure what the benefit of
using that form is.

I haven't quite grok'd all of this yet, but once I do I would have no
problem with writing a mini-howto.

Thanks again,
Dan

----- Original Message -----
From: "Martin v. Loewis" <martin at mira.cs.tu-berlin.de>
To: <dan.rolander at marriott.com>
Cc: <python-list at python.org>; <xml-sig at python.org>; <gmcm at hypernet.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2001 5:25 PM
Subject: Re: [XML-SIG] Re: Using Installer with PyXML


>     from xml.sax import saxexts, saxlib, saxutils
[...]
> the packager (Gordon McMillan's Installer) is able to find
xml.sax.saxutils,
> but is not able to find xml.sax.saxexts or xml.sax.saxlib which actually
> reside in _xmlplus.sax.

I was going to claim this to be a bug in the installer, but it now
rather seems like an operator error: The installer has now way of
knowing that it ought to load the _xmlplus.sax.saxexts into the
distribution, since there is no import statement for it.

So announcing the full _xmlplus package to it is the right thing to
do.

> I can force builder.py to include the entire
> _xmlplus tree by adding a packages=_xmlplus line to the [APPZLIB] section
of
> the .cfg file, but the exe still fails because it is looking for
xml.sax.*:
>
>     ImportError: cannot import name xml.sax.saxexts

It's not clear what is causing that. It could be a bug in the
installer, or it could be the distribution contains no pyexpat.pyd. In
that case, you'll have to explicitly request inclusion of pyexpat.pyd.

It would be good to check what files are actually included.

> When I rename _xmlplus to xml and then run builder again without
specifying
> any additional packages, the EXE fails because it can't find an available
> parser:
>
>   File "c:\program files\python20\_xmlplus\sax\saxexts.py", line 77, in
> make_parser
>     xml.sax._exceptions.SAXReaderNotAvailable: No parsers found

No surprise. The installer is looking at import statements, but there
are no import statements for xml.sax.drivers.*; instead, they are
imported by calling __import__ for a computed string. So again, that
is an operator error: everything imported "by magic" must be announced
explicitly to such a packager.

> If I manually import the entire PyXML tree (now named 'xml') by adding a
> packages=xml line to the .cfg file, I get a little farther but now the exe
> isn't able to find pyexpat.
>
>     ImportError: cannot import name xml.parsers.pyexpat
>
> I then try to manually import pyexpat by adding xml.parsers.pyexpat to the
> misc line in the [MYCOLLECT] section, but finder.py is not able to find
it:
>
>       File
"D:\DOCUME~1\Dan\Software\Python\INSTAL~1\MEInc\Dist\finder.py",
> line 121, in identify
>       ValueError: xml.parsers.pyexpat.pyd not found

You did not say *how* you specified it - it might be that Installer
mistook your command as trying to import a module named "pyd" from a
package named "pyexpat" - that is not available.

> If I changed the .cfg line in [MYCOLLECT] to misc=pyexpat.pyd then the
core
> \DLLs version of pyexpat.pyd is found and put into the dist directory. Now
> when the exe is run I get a Windows error stating that the xmlparse.dll
> couldn't be located.
>
> I add xmlparse.dll to the misc= line and then I get an error stating that
> the xmltok.dll couldn't be found.
>
> I add xmltok.dll to the misc= line and voila! it works!

When you use the pyexpat from PyXML, the difference should be that
xmlparse.dll and xmltok.dll are not required.

> I then replaced the core version of pyexpat.pyd in \DLLs with the
> PyXML version and found that I could build a good exe without having
> to manually include the xmlparse.dll and xmltok.dll.

Not only do you not need to include them manually - they are not
needed at all. Care to write a small howto document for the XML topic
guide?

> I start with the _xmlplus directory renamed to xml, because I know that's
> necessary, and I build a new standalone installation. This time the
pyexpat
> file is imported to the dist directory as xml.parsers.pyexpat.pyd but the
> exe won't import it:
>
>     ImportError: cannot import name xml.parsers.pyexpat

Do you have a traceback for that? All applications should import
xml.parsers.expat, which should have

from pyexpat import *

so there should be no request to load xml.parsers.pyexpat. Older PyXML
versions had such code, but it should have been wrapped with catching
and ImportError, which then should fall back to load pyexpat
unqualified.

> The only fix I can figure out is to change the import statement to:
>
>     import pyexpat
>
> and that works.

As I said, the real solution is to write

  from xml.parsers import expat

or, if you need to keep the pyexpat name,

 from xml.parsers import expat as pyexpat

> 1.  Replace the core xml directory with the _xmlplus directory, by
renaming
> _xmlplus to xml.

I'm not entirely sure *why* this is needed, but it certainly can't hurt.

> 2.  Copy the PyXML pyexpat.pyd file from the xml.parsers directory to the
> <python_root>\DLLs directory.

That is a good idea, yes.

> 3.  If pyexpat is needed, either explicitly import it in your script, or
> manually include it in the standalone installation by adding an entry to
the
> misc line in the COLLECT section of the builder .cfg file.

pyexpat should always be included in PyXML applications, so that is
also fine.

> 4.  If importing from xml.sax, manually import the entire PyXML tree
(source
> files only) by specifying either packages=xml or directories=xml in the
PYZ
> section of the builder .cfg file.

I would guess the same applies when importing DOM stuff - the DOM
readers also use make_parser at some point.

Regards,
Martin





From gregj at pobox.com  Thu Jan  4 20:02:24 2001
From: gregj at pobox.com (Greg Jorgensen)
Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 01:02:24 GMT
Subject: why no "do : until"?
References: <92jj3j$ff7$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <slrn94shbe.150.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <X8s36.2731$Qb7.305339@newsb.telia.net> <slrn94smds.150.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <FOt36.17$vd1.2224@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com> <slrn94t1vj.150.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <3A4E95FD.D6C737A7@engcorp.com> <slrn94tqkh.150.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <tpr46.7782$4c.597534@ruti.visi.com> <slrn954h6p.rgv.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <3A52AD6A.62D043A2@engcorp.com> <3A534367.36B1FD18@uswest.net> <slrn957j19.go.amk@207-172-36-81.s81.tnt6.ann.va.dialup.rcn.com> <3A53F4B1.6227D241@uswest.net> <931gf302dsi@news2.newsguy.com> <932d0k$ita$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu> <slrn95a2u4.hp.amk@207-172-36-136.s136.tnt6.ann.va.dialup.rcn.com>
Message-ID: <A2956.231789$U46.7096887@news1.sttls1.wa.home.com>

"A.M. Kuchling" <amk at mira.erols.com> wrote:

> Yes.  I've argued in the past that we should just leave Python's
> syntax alone; all the proposed changes usually add 1% more
> functionality and aren't worth the pain.  Leave fancy changes to the
> hypothetical Python3K or some other future descendent of Python, and
> just work on the infrastructure around the language.

I say leave the fancy syntax changes to the Perl programmers. They're
animals anyway. ;-)

--
Greg Jorgensen
PDXperts
Portland, Oregon, USA
gregj at pobox.com




From scarblac at pino.selwerd.nl  Tue Jan  2 08:59:03 2001
From: scarblac at pino.selwerd.nl (Remco Gerlich)
Date: 2 Jan 2001 13:59:03 GMT
Subject: using 'global' across source files.
References: <3A51CC63.A90A0E0B@sara.nl>
Message-ID: <slrn953nf2.pcr.scarblac@pino.selwerd.nl>

Bram Stolk <bram at sara.nl> wrote in comp.lang.python:
> Using the 'global' keyword, I can have my functions
> access global variables, like:
> 
>   # try.py
>   val=100
> 
>   def change_val() :
>     global val
>     val = 2*val
> 
>   change_val()
>   print val
> 
> However, this scheme falls apart if I split up this
> code in two files, one containing the global, and
> one containing the func.
> 
>   # prog.py
> 
>   from funcs import *
> 
>   val = 100
> 
>   change_val()
>   print val
> 
>   # funcs.py
> 
>   def change_val() :
>     global val
>     val = val * 2
> 
> When running I get an error:
> 
> bram at gazoo> python -i prog.py
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "prog.py", line 7, in ?
>     change_val()
>   File "funcs.py", line 5, in change_val
>     val = val * 2
> NameError: There is no variable named 'val'
> 
> 
> Why?

Because, at the time you imported everything from funcs.py, val didn't
exist yet. You then run change_val(), funcs.val is created, but it doesn't
get copied into every module that ever did 'from funcs import *'.

> And how can I fix this?

The best way is not to use "from module import *" at all. from...import can
be tricky, and you should only use it when you know exactly what you're
doing. If you did, you wouldn't ask this question :). Simply "import funcs"
and use "funcs.val" to access it.

An alternative is to do "from funcs import *" again after change_val(),
but that's clearly inferior in my opinion. You'd have to do it again after
every single change to val.

Don't use from...import and certainly not from...import *.

-- 
Remco Gerlich


From huwdotlynes at ic.ac.uk  Tue Jan 23 05:38:35 2001
From: huwdotlynes at ic.ac.uk (Huw Lynes)
Date: 23 Jan 2001 10:38:35 GMT
Subject: os.system easy question
Message-ID: <slrn96qrgp.gg.huwdotlynes@Marvin.ic.ac.uk>

Hi all,

I'm writing a script that will run an external program over
a list of files such that:

os.system("program %s" % filename)

which would be fine if the program exited after running,
however it doesn't. So the script stops when program is run
for the first time. So the question is how to kill the 
external program after it has run. Or alternatively how to
run an external program in such a way that the script will
not halt.

This is running on linux BTW.

Thanks in advance,
Huw Lynes

To reply you know what "dot" should really be.


From dsh8290 at rit.edu  Fri Jan 19 13:06:20 2001
From: dsh8290 at rit.edu (D-Man)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 13:06:20 -0500
Subject: PSU uses emacs?
In-Reply-To: <9490t009on@news2.newsguy.com>; from aleaxit@yahoo.com on Fri, Jan 19, 2001 at 10:10:12AM +0100
References: <948e4b$hm0$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <948fvj$oq1$1@panix6.panix.com> <3A67CDC3.7EACB07D@Lugoj.Com> <9490t009on@news2.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <20010119130620.J4478@harmony.cs.rit.edu>

On Fri, Jan 19, 2001 at 10:10:12AM +0100, Alex Martelli wrote:
| "James Logajan" <JamesL at Lugoj.Com> wrote in message
| news:3A67CDC3.7EACB07D at Lugoj.Com...
| > Aahz Maruch wrote:
| > > vi
| >
| > Viva vi!
| 
| vi here too (gvim, actually -- Python-programmable and all:-).
| 

I second the motion.  :-)

It's refreshing to see that the giants of python-list use a Real
editor.  ;-)

-D




From ehagemann at home.com  Fri Jan 26 21:30:39 2001
From: ehagemann at home.com (Eric Hagemann)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 02:30:39 GMT
Subject: Use Python instead of Perl's GifGraph?
References: <94sneo$507$1@sshuraaa-i-1.production.compuserve.com>
Message-ID: <jpqc6.45165$B6.11707951@news1.rdc1.md.home.com>

Richard,

    I am doing that very thing presently with DISLIN.  The package allows
for a large number of graph type and options.  I use the png format for my
graphs.

    Do a web search for DISLIN and you will find the home page.  Package is
free for many platforms

    Good luck



"Scobee, Richard" <rscobee at pbsj.com> wrote in message
news:94sneo$507$1 at sshuraaa-i-1.production.compuserve.com...
> I have done very little Perl programming and that was a while back, but I
am
> finding a need for a feature that seems to be well developed in Perl:
> generating Web-browser compatible charts/graphs at run-time from database
> data and calculations.  I have a copy of O'Reilly's Programming Web
Graphics
> with Perl & GNU Software by Shawn P. Wallace and it describes GIFGraph
which
> seems perfectly suited to this task.  But being a casual follower of
> programming trends, it seems that Python is quickly replacing Perl as the
> web programmers scripting language of choice.  So I was just wandering if
> there are any libraries similar to GIFGraph already in Python or if I
should
> just go ahead and figure out how to do it in Perl.
>
> I am working on a couple of intranet applications and both have potential
> uses for run-time generated charts/graphs generated from database data and
> calculations.  My background is mostly in VB but the biggest of these
> projects is primarly using Oracle's implementation of J2EE in Windows NT
so
> I am already struggling with new tools, true OO programming, Java, etc.
> From what I've read, Python sounds far more attractive for getting
something
> new to work in a new language than I remember Perl being.  But if I have
to
> write my own graph generating library in Python, wouldn't it be more
> productive to just struggle with Perl's GIFGraph?  I would try to do most
of
> the work in Java but probably use CGI to feed the numbers to be graphed to
> the Perl or Python script to generate a GIF.  Does this approach make
sense?
> Is Python a good choice for this?
>
> Any opinions on this would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Richard J. Scobee
> Information Solutions Developer
> PBS&J
> Miami, FL
> rscobee at pbsj.com
>
>




From bsb at winnegan.de  Wed Jan 31 06:38:15 2001
From: bsb at winnegan.de (Siggy Brentrup)
Date: 31 Jan 2001 12:38:15 +0100
Subject: Joining lists
In-Reply-To: <0056900015556676000002L062*@MHS>
References: <0056900015556676000002L062*@MHS>
Message-ID: <87y9vs3qag.fsf@winnegan.de>

jurgen.defurne at philips.com writes:

> Hello, list members,
> 
> Is there a simple way of joining two list to form only one list, like :
> 
> [1, 5, 6, 4] <join operation> [4, 6, 7] -> [1, 5, 6, 4, 4, 6, 7]

>>> [1, 5, 6, 4] + [4, 6, 7]
[1, 5, 6, 4, 4, 6, 7]

HTH
  Siggy




From grante at visi.com  Wed Jan  3 09:45:29 2001
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 14:45:29 GMT
Subject: why no "do : until"?
References: <92jj3j$ff7$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <92m9pm$d19$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <B3z36.122$9s1.18804@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com> <3A4EC5B1.8912E571@engcorp.com> <x8G36.156$9s1.31209@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com> <3A4F4B4D.ECD6B172@engcorp.com> <rBr46.7783$4c.597712@ruti.visi.com> <slrn9550fe.rvi.kc5tja@garnet.armored.net>
Message-ID: <dWG46.7998$4c.647371@ruti.visi.com>

In article <slrn9550fe.rvi.kc5tja at garnet.armored.net>, Samuel A. Falvo II wrote:
>On Tue, 02 Jan 2001 21:19:19 GMT, Grant Edwards wrote:
>>>while (1)
>>>   {
>>>   T = f();
>>>   if (T < 25)
>>>       break;
>>>   }
>>
>>I used that C indentation style for years, but I finally gave
>>up since a) I could never get editors and the "indent" program
>>to do it automatically, and b) nobody else on my projects
>>wanted to do it that way, and it's important that all the
>>source code on a project be indented consistently.

[...]

>To make it self-consistent, you need to do this:
>
>void f2( int c )
>   {
>   int x = 0;
>   
>   while( x < c )
>      {
>      printf( "X=%d\n", x );
>      x++;
>      }
>   }

That's how I did it.  Except I used generally used 2 spaces per
level instead of 3.  That style was a hold-over from how
I learned to do write Pascal:

  if whatever then
    begin
    do something;
    do something else
    end;

>Though both methods are equally readable to me, I consider it
>to be rather ugly syntax.

Ya wanna talk about ugly? Apparently people pay prefectly good
money for Pontiac Aztecs. ;)

Personally, I find either style to be infinitely preferable to
the K&R style:

 if (whatever) {
   do something;
   do something else;
 } else {
   yet another thing;
 }
  
I simply can't read read code like that, and generally do an
'indent -gnu' on it before I try to figure out what's going on...  

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  .. does your DRESSING
                                  at               ROOM have enough ASPARAGUS?
                               visi.com            


From spamers at must.die  Mon Jan 29 11:41:28 2001
From: spamers at must.die (Fernando Rodríguez)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 17:41:28 +0100
Subject: Scope rules in Python
Message-ID: <mu6b7t085im3cn22f9b8prdg6riaqd46gp@4ax.com>

Hi!

	Is there any plans to change the scope rules in Python, so that
function B can also access everything (including itself) defined inside
function A?:

def A():
  def B():
    return None
  return None

	It would make defining internal functions and closures _much_
easier... :-)

TIA




//-----------------------------------------------
//	Fernando Rodriguez Romero
//
//	frr at mindless dot com
//------------------------------------------------


From claird at starbase.neosoft.com  Mon Jan 15 07:19:00 2001
From: claird at starbase.neosoft.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: 15 Jan 2001 06:19:00 -0600
Subject: PHP vs Python
References: <eAs86.7767$ED.239213@news1.rdc1.bc.home.com> <3A6283B3.76D07875@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <72B6C6200E534B63.3D98F933D99B17F4.4ABEC098883B13C3@lp.airnews.net>

In article <3A6283B3.76D07875 at engcorp.com>,
Peter Hansen  <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:
			.
			.
			.
>> 2-who has more users
>
>Don't know.  Suspect it's Python, that one being
>rather broader in scope ("rather" means "massively"
>in my world).
No one understands the question, let
alone being certain about the answer.

This is often an obscured form for,
"How many resumes include 'PHP' vs.
'Python'?"  PHP might actually win out
on that score.
>
>> 3-who hits the wall in scaling up and or handing complexity
>
>PHP.
Yes.  Most of the languages popularly
aggregated as "scripting" have converged
remarkably in their capabilities.  One
of the strongest differentiations, 
though, is that Python handles complexity
well, and PHP is on the low end of that
particular dimension.
>
>> 4-general performance
>
>Python is better for "general" performance,
>given that PHP is not designed for "general"
>use.
Often people asking this question mean,
"How's the CPU load when working with
Apache, IIS, and iPlanet?"  That's not
*your* idea of "general", of course, and
perhaps not even the original questioner's.
'Makes sense in Webworking circles, though.
>
>> 5-where would I be better off using PHP over Python
>
>An environment already using PHP.  Or an environment
>where Python is not available.  Or if you know
>only PHP.  Only sure about the first two...
There will be commercial announcements
about PHP next week that will slightly
extend PHP's domain of dominance.

Here's what I emphasize:  if you hang
out (are a fellow employee, for example)
with a lot of PHP enthusiasts, it's 
absolutely right to go with their flow
and enjoy the advantage of their exper-
tise.
			.
			.
			.
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at NeoSoft.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://starbase.neosoft.com/~claird/home.html


From scarblac at pino.selwerd.nl  Mon Jan 22 12:54:04 2001
From: scarblac at pino.selwerd.nl (Remco Gerlich)
Date: 22 Jan 2001 17:54:04 GMT
Subject: how to test for nesting inlist
References: <94bhte$4iv$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <94bvgu0kt4@news2.newsguy.com> <94ea6k$4uc$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <mailman.980119825.5586.python-list@python.org> <94h7pi$b86$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <slrn96osjl.sl4.scarblac@pino.selwerd.nl>

cpsoct at my-deja.com <cpsoct at my-deja.com> wrote in comp.lang.python:
> What are list comprehensions? I have looked and looked and looked in
> books and on www.python.org and i see no mention of these. Is this
> something new? or i am i just getting tripped up by the jargon and list
> compreshensions are something i already know by another name? I am
> confused. Hmm.....

They're new in Python 2.0, they are inspired by languages like Haskell.

>>> [ord(x) for x in "SPAM"]
[83, 80, 65, 77]

>>> [3*x for x in range(5)]
[0, 3, 6, 9, 12]

>>> [x for x in range(10) if x%2==0]
[0, 2, 4, 6, 8]

>>> [(x,y) for x in range(2) for y in range(3)]
[(0,0), (0,1), (0,2), (1,0), (1,1), (1,2)]

>>> [x for x in zip("SPAM", "EGGS")]
[('S','E'), ('P', 'G'), ('A','G'), ('M','S')]

There must be docs on it somewhere, but you can get a feel for it playing
with examples, I think...

-- 
Remco Gerlich





From fredrik at effbot.org  Mon Jan 29 18:50:17 2001
From: fredrik at effbot.org (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 23:50:17 GMT
Subject: marshal doesn't work with "file-like" objects
References: <mailman.980811397.29510.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Zknd6.10159$AH6.1643381@newsc.telia.net>

Tim Peters wrote:
> > Note the second part ("more of a puzzle" is a polite way to say
> > "impossible, if you care about performance").
>
> That wasn't my intent

how about "impossible, if you care about performance, and
don't want to invent yet another file format".

Cheers /F




From loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de  Sun Jan 21 15:50:04 2001
From: loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de (Martin von Loewis)
Date: 21 Jan 2001 21:50:04 +0100
Subject: pyXML support for XSL tranformations??
References: <rtga6.18098$bb.708443@news1.rdc1.tx.home.com> <94d1tj$6sa$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <3a6aef10.3738521@nntp.sprynet.com>
Message-ID: <p6qk87o7hqb.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>

ullrich at math.okstate.edu (David C. Ullrich) writes:

> I have the 4Thought XSL stuff from a little while ago. When I 
> installed it I had to replace the current (1.5.2) Python xml.dom
> with one that came with 4Thought, which I gather was an
> older version. I didn't like this but I did it and it works fine.

In Python 1.5.2, there was no xml.dom - so I doubt you had replaced
the Python xml.dom. What you might have replaced was some xml.dom from
some PyXML; whether it was older or new would much depend on what
PyXML version you actually had.

> Q: Does the current 4Thought XSL stuff get along a little
> more _cleanly_ with Python? (I actually haven't got around
> to getting Python 2.0 precisely because it took a little
> tweaking to get the XSL going in 1.5.2...)

The current 4Suite release contains a copy of PyXML 0.6.3, enhanced by
a few patches that will only appear in PyXML 0.6.4; you should use the
PyXML version that comes with 4Suite.

Regards,
Martin



From misfit at chopstick.cc  Wed Jan 31 01:01:41 2001
From: misfit at chopstick.cc (T.C. Thomas)
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 06:01:41 GMT
Subject: DataBase support
References: <3a72fff7@news.bezeqint.net>
Message-ID: <9TNd6.182765$15.39742565@news1.rdc1.az.home.com>

"guy bashan" <bashanguy at hotmail.com> wrote:
>Hello,
>
>I'm new to Python, and just installed the Komodo working with AcivePython
>2.0.  I gave a little overview over the syntax and built-in capabilities and
>was really impressed.  But I couldn't notice any database support. Was I
>missing something ??    Does Python have any class dealing with databases
>and tables ??

I am running kinfxdb against an Informix 7.3 database (data warehouse).  It has worked quite well.  
Kinfxdb appears to be just a C library (Informix ESQL/C) of database functions with a Python wrapper module.

--TC



From paulp at ActiveState.com  Sat Jan 13 05:09:40 2001
From: paulp at ActiveState.com (Paul Prescod)
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 02:09:40 -0800
Subject: Speed of Python vs. Perl
References: <mailman.979266192.1957.python-list@python.org> <Owy76.5648$Qb7.787357@newsb.telia.net> <93o3td$oee3u$1@fido.engr.sgi.com>
Message-ID: <3A602964.78466D16@ActiveState.com>

Paul Jackson wrote:
> 
> ...
> 
> Here are the two diff's.  Probably there is something better I
> should be doing with these diff's than just posting them here
> -- if so, let me know.

http://www.python.org/patches/

 Paul Prescod



From mikael at isy.liu.se  Fri Jan 12 10:59:47 2001
From: mikael at isy.liu.se (Mikael Olofsson)
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 16:59:47 +0100 (MET)
Subject: boolean xor
In-Reply-To: <UsD76.5769$6i.83249@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <XFMail.010112165947.mikael@isy.liu.se>

On 12-Jan-01 Steve Holden wrote:
 >  I do not not not not not not not not not not agree with Mikael's assertion,
 >  which I did not not not not not not not not not not make in a feeble
 >  attempt
 >  to be humorous. Apparently this was not not not not not not not not not
 >  quite as funny as I thought.
 >  
 >  Usenet error: sense of humour failure.

:o)

/Mikael

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WWW:     http://www.dtr.isy.liu.se/dtr/staff/mikael               
Phone:   +46 - (0)13 - 28 1343
Telefax: +46 - (0)13 - 28 1339
Date:    12-Jan-01
Time:    16:59:23

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From DavidL at SpamNONONoraqia.com  Mon Jan  8 10:05:46 2001
From: DavidL at SpamNONONoraqia.com (David Lees)
Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2001 10:05:46 -0500
Subject: ActivePython Installer for 2.0?
References: <3A595540.9D34A5AA@NONOSpammytheworld.com> <u%c66.653$_e7.37162@news2.atl> <3A5960F1.FBEDA567@SpamNonotheworld.com>
Message-ID: <3A59D74A.65644F19@SpamNONONoraqia.com>

Sorry Joel, I was tired and missed your question.  Yes, you can download
Python 2.0 and IDLE in one package at
http://www.python.org/2.0/#download (this carries a BeOpen label).  Mark
Hammond's package nicely integrates itself with this and you can
download it from
http://www.activestate.com/Products/ActivePython/win32all.html
His package adds PythonWin which is a Windows IDE for Python, which is
what I have been using on both my NT and Win98SE machines.

david


<snip>
> > Is Mark Hammonds Win32all-135 the Interactive Windows Developer program?  If
> > so, that means it is available as a seperate package from ActivePython or
> > python in general?
> > --
> > I have been Perl-Free for 3 Days, 2 Hours, 13 Minutes, and 28 Seconds.
> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > Joel Ricker   joejava at dragoncat.net
> >   Just Another Python Hacker


From jafo at tummy.com  Sun Jan 21 01:37:59 2001
From: jafo at tummy.com (Sean Reifschneider)
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 23:37:59 -0700
Subject: How do I know all thrown exceptions of a function?
In-Reply-To: <94d93h$55d$1@troll.powertech.no>; from syver@NOSPAMcyberwatcher.com on Sun, Jan 21, 2001 at 01:02:36AM +0100
References: <g3lb49.73s.ln@127.0.0.1> <94d93h$55d$1@troll.powertech.no>
Message-ID: <20010120233759.B20336@tummy.com>

On Sun, Jan 21, 2001 at 01:02:36AM +0100, Syver Enstad wrote:
>Couldn't you use the source?

Yeah, I suppose so.  I don't think you should *HAVE* to review the code of
the libraries you call, AND *EVERYTHING* that *THEY* call.  It's not an
effective use of my time...  I usually just end up leaving it and track
down what exceptions get thrown later.  Luckily, Python exceptions are
(almost) user-readable.

Exceptions is something that I think Java does right...  When you write
a method, you have to either trap all exceptions which can be generated
in it, or declare that it may throw those exceptions (so that the caller
can handle them).

Why do Python's exceptions remind me of one (frowned upon) way of
handling automatic weapons: "Spray and pray".

Sean
-- 
 One person's data is another person's program. 
                 -- Guy L. Steele, Jr.
Sean Reifschneider, Inimitably Superfluous <jafo at tummy.com>
tummy.com - Linux Consulting since 1995. Qmail, KRUD, Firewalls, Python



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Jan 12 05:20:10 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 11:20:10 +0100
Subject: boolean xor
References: <mailman.979258453.29329.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <93mlrr0h71@news1.newsguy.com>

"Delaney, Timothy" <tdelaney at avaya.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.979258453.29329.python-list at python.org...
> Actually, I think it should work the other way. Because it is not *always*
> possible to return one of the arguments, xor should never return either of
> the arguments. This is the path of least-astonishment.

Guess one could argue this way, yes.  But "do this if feasible" is
a pretty common metaparadigm -- it won't astonish anybody if 'this'
doesn't get done when not feasible:-).


> There's just no way to short circuit xor.

Of course not, but, what's that got to do with it?

> Your proposed method presumably continues as

(Function, not method, but I guess you knew that -- we overload
so many common words that it's extremely easy to hit one:-).

>  def xor(A,B):
>      if not A: return B
>      if not B: return A
>      return 0

No, I explicitly mentioned leaving off this last line you're adding.
Why '0'?  Returning None seems more Pythonic here (and can get
accomplished by just having no third line in the function's body,
although I acknowledge that cutesy touch is quite doubtful).


> This may be better (returning only requires the implementation detail of
> returning a reference), but it can also be worse (need to evaluate 2
values
> after dereferencing them, plus then need to return a *different*
reference).

Sorry, I don't follow you at all here.  E.g., "returning a reference"
is definitely NOT an "implementation detail" in Python -- it's a deep,
crucial part of its semantics; so, I don't get what you're driving at.

Considerations in C would of course be completely different (C does NOT
return original values, but rather 0 or 1, even from short-circuited
&& and || -- a design flaw, IMHO, but, to keep consistent with it, one
would NOT want to 'return original values' from an xor-function either).


Alex





From sandj.williams at gte.net  Sat Jan 20 13:30:14 2001
From: sandj.williams at gte.net (Steve Williams)
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 18:30:14 GMT
Subject: Python COM and DCOM.
References: <3RV96.10957$wt2.125028@news1.oke.nextra.no> <3A686640.534195EE@gte.net> <94ao0h$9ee$1@troll.powertech.no>
Message-ID: <3A69DA94.F3A43841@gte.net>

Syver Enstad wrote:

> "Steve Williams" <sandj.williams at gte.net> wrote
> > Just a thought.  Run dcomcnfg on your server, highlight Python server
> name,
> > click on properties and look at the location tab.  You may also want to
> look
> > at the Identity tab, as well.
> >
> I've done this on the client machine, what should I look at on the server?
>
> FYI, I am already having several .exe C++ implemented COM objects being
> accesed through DCOM from the same machine. Only the python object is
> causing me headache.

AFAIK, the only thing you have to do on the client machine is register the
DCOM object.  If the object is running on your client, then it's registered.
You don't run dcomcnfg on the client--you run it on the server.

In my client applications (VB and ACCESS, for the most part) I include the
second parameter servername when I instantiate the object.

Set PythonObject = CreateObject("PythonProgram.PythonClass","SrvrName")




From dan.rolander at marriott.com  Sat Jan 20 16:56:53 2001
From: dan.rolander at marriott.com (Dan Rolander)
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 16:56:53 -0500
Subject: Different deployment considerations (was: Python & GUI?)
References: <3A674896.C7E52247@crepido.com> <3A698869.198D6263@crepido.com> <301DBDE62C14BD35.683C43A181247CB3.8398E5428BE1B406@lp.airnews.net> <94cm0r01b6j@news2.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <033801c0832e$d843a520$11260340@yin>

Installer works fine with wxPython. It's just that Installer has built-in
support for including the tk files.

Dan

----- Original Message -----
From: "Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com>
Newsgroups: comp.lang.python
To: <python-list at python.org>
Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2001 10:27 AM
Subject: Re: Different deployment considerations (was: Python & GUI?)


"Cameron Laird" <claird at starbase.neosoft.com> wrote in message
news:301DBDE62C14BD35.683C43A181247CB3.8398E5428BE1B406 at lp.airnews.net...
    [snip]
> side?  Gordon's Installer makes Win* Tkinter apps into
> single files ...  I know of *no* other of the many Python
> GUI bindings which enjoys this benefit.
>
> Does anyone have evidence to the contrary?

I haven't checked, but, why wouldn't Installer (or other
such solutions) work equivalently for, say, wxPython?


Alex



--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list





From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Thu Jan 11 11:19:06 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 17:19:06 +0100
Subject: Error in pythonic InternetExplorer hta application
References: <93k5cs$hc5$1@papyrus.erlm.siemens.de>
Message-ID: <93kmgk018qn@news1.newsguy.com>

"Christof Pastors" <christof_n at pastors.de> wrote in message
news:93k5cs$hc5$1 at papyrus.erlm.siemens.de...
    [snip]
> I get a NameError exception because the name "TheAddress" is not found.
> In which object can I find "TheAddress"???
> I guessed "window.TheAddress" and "document.TheAddress" without success.

It's actually:
TheAddress = document.all('TheAddress')

Javascript does peculiar things this way!  Note that TheAddress is
the ID attribute of one tag:

> <input type=text value="http://www.python.org" id=TheAddress style="width:
> expression(document.body.clientWidth - AddText.offsetWidth -
> AddGo.offsetWidth - 45)">

I notice (with curiosity) that the expressions with which the width
attribute is computed ARE evaluated in Javascript (so they can use,
e.g., AddText and AddGo "as if" they were objects!), but that's
normal I guess, since so far nobody's said that Python is the default
language for this HTA, so the default remains Javascript.  Fine,
just be *careful* -- you can't use *Python* expressions here (not
without specifying the language!), it MUST be JavaScript.  The
'general expressions to determine/recompute attributes transparently
at runtime' feature of IE is new enough (5.5?) that I've never
digged deep into it, so I can't yet be of much help about it.


I guess that, for a rich and complex HTA, an OK solution might
be to wrap the real 'document' object into a utility class:

class docWrapper:
    def __init__(self, doc):
        self.__doc = doc
    def __getattr__(self, name):
        try: return getattr(self.__doc, name)
        except AttributeError: return self.__doc.all(name)

for example, with something like

document = docWrapper(document)

at the start, if one insists on using document.Whatever for
BOTH real attributes of the document object AND descendant
objects thereof which have a certain ID (personally, I find
it clearer to distinguish, but, whatever floats your boat).


Or, to be able to just use TheAddress AS IF it was a global
variable, one would have to use black-magic on the module
object -- substituting it with a class-instance with the
required __getattr__ (shades of a very recent thread...) --
I doubt this would work, though (perhaps a good thing:
*explicit is better than implicit*!-).


There's a worse problem, though, which I've met before, but
to which I don't yet know a solution.  Once you've fixed
the 'TheAddress' problem, the script will break again,
right here...:

> TheAddress.onkeypress = clickShortcut

Specifically, a large messagebox with a traceback will
explain to you (it's win32com talking, I think) that
"Object of type 'function' can not be converted to a
COM VARIANT".

And it's right -- there's no normal Python (win32com)
conversion to take a function (clickShortcut) and make
a VARIANT out of it -- and a Variant is what you need
to be able to set a COM object's property, like, here,
the 'onkeypress' property.  I *THINK* that what MS's
HTML DOM expects here is a dispatch-pointer, i.e. in
Python terms a wrapped COM object -- but, I'm not sure,
nor do I know exactly *what* would be expected of
this object.  I've tried finding out experimentally,
by setting such onwhatever properties to wrapped Python
objects that would trace the names and/or ID's of
methods being queried for and/or called, etc, but I've
never been able to find out more.

If anybody *does* know what's supposed to go into the
various .onfoobar properties, when scripting the HTML
DOM from Python, *please* let us all know...!!!  Any
pointers to docs, no matter how obscure, will also be
very welcome -- I'm an old hand at squeezing some bits
of info out of obscure MS docs, it's just that in this
case I've been able to found no shreds thereof.


So, anyway, until we manage to crack the secret of
the .onplok properties, we'll have to catch the events
in other ways.  Note that the same issue applies to
attributes set inline, such as the onclick="navigate()"
which you set in the button element of id AddGo: the
property is apparently just a string, and it's NOT
clear what happens to it when the button is clicked
(even if one sets the further attribute to specify
the language -- language=Python, for example); the
function appears to never execute -- it would be hard
to tell in your version, since 'print' goes nowhere,
but it's easy to add something like:

import win32api

class OdsFile:
    def write(self, what):
        win32api.OutputDebugString(what)
import sys
sys.stderr = sys.stdout = OdsFile()

so that 'print' statements become useful for debugging
(this needs dbmon.exe, or some other ways to watch for
outputdebugstrings being slinged around by processes
not under a debugger -- I guess you could easily use
win32traceutility for the same purpose, I'm just not
used to it since dbmon-plus-OutputDebugString are not
language-dependent so I can use them for multi-language
debugging &c).


There are several other approaches to handling HMTL
DOM events.  win32com's general approaches to event
handling can be used.  Also, the attachEvent method
of HTML DOM elements helps -- the COM class instance'
thus 'attached' is supposed to get its DISPID_VALUE
method (method of DISPID 0 -- the 'default' one --
should be mapped to a method named _value_ according
to DesignatedWrapPolicy) called when the event occurs
(with the event-object as an argument).

The latter doesn't *quite* work, because that policy
only uses _value_ to set the attributes-to-dispids
map, and the 'call' from the HTML DOM is looking more
specifically for a *method*.  Workaround is easy,
though (that is one great thing of Python: while a
very high level language, it DOES 'expose its internals'
so you can, at need, work around issues, problems, bugs,
limitations; just try doing that for most others...:-).


So, anyway, here's a version of your HTA which should
work as (I believe) you intended it to...:

<html>

<head>
  <TITLE>HTML Application Example</TITLE>
  <HTA:APPLICATION ID="HTAEx" APPLICATIONNAME="HTAEx"
    ICON="e.ico" WINDOWSTATE="normal">
</head>

<body>
<span id=AddressBar style="overflow: none">
<span id=AddText>Address</span>
<input type=text value="http://www.python.org" id=TheAddress
 style="width: expression(document.body.clientWidth
   - AddText.offsetWidth - AddGo.offsetWidth - 45)">
<input type=button value="Go" id=AddGo><br>
<span>
<br>
<iframe src="http://www.python.org" id=TheFrame
style="width: 100%; height: 85%"></iframe></span>

<script language=Python>
#
# COM & HTML-DOM infrastructure
#
import win32com.server.util as wsu, win32com.server.dispatcher as wsd
import win32com.server.policy as wsp, win32com.client.gencache as wcg

# redirect out & err as OutputDebugString
import win32api, sys
class OdsFile:
    def write(self, what):
        win32api.OutputDebugString(what)
sys.stderr = sys.stdout = OdsFile()
print "Hta example: Starting"

#
# attach a Python function to handle an HTML DOM event
#
class Handler:
    _public_methods_ = []
    def __init__(self, func):
        self.__func = func
    def _value_(self, evtobj):
        return self.__func(wcg.EnsureDispatch(evtobj))

basepol = wsp.DesignatedWrapPolicy
class MyPolicy(basepol):
    def _wrap_(self, ob):
        basepol._wrap_(self, ob)
        if self._dispid_to_get_.has_key(0):
            self._dispid_to_func_[0] = self._dispid_to_get_[0]
# dsp = wsd.DispatcherOutputDebugString
dsp = None

def handleWith(function):
    return wsu.wrap(Handler(function), usePolicy=MyPolicy,
useDispatcher=dsp)

print "Infrastructure OK"

# stuff specific to this HTA

TheAddress = document.all('TheAddress')

def navigate(event):
    last = "Hello, " + TheAddress.value
    print last

def clickShortcut(event):
    if window.event.keyCode == 13:
        navigate(event)

print "Defs OK, attaching events"
try:
    TheAddress.attachEvent("onkeypress", handleWith(clickShortcut))
    print "Done onkeypress on TheAddress"
    document.all("AddGo").attachEvent("onclick", handleWith(navigate))
    print "Done onclick on AddGo"
except:
    import traceback
    traceback.print_exc()

print "Init done"

</script>
</body>
</html>


Note that all of the output is based on OutputDebugString;
dbmon can be downloaded as a sample application from
http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/devprods/vs6/visualc/vcsample/vcsmpdbmon.h
tm
it's also part of the win32 sdk, and you can also get several
equivalent utilities such as dbwin32 at
http://www.winsite.com/info/pc/win95/programr/dbwin32.zip/
etc, etc.  It shouldn't be hard to change it to use win32trace
instead, if you wish to, since the actual OutputDebugString
call is, after all, in just one place!-)


Alex




From banksam at swanhill.net.au  Mon Jan 15 16:34:21 2001
From: banksam at swanhill.net.au (banksam at swanhill.net.au)
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 21:34:21 GMT
Subject: Beginner's question - class definition
References: <3a6366a8.4537644@news.ruralnet.net.au>
Message-ID: <3a636cb7.6088966@news.ruralnet.net.au>

On Mon, 15 Jan 2001 21:14:20 GMT, banksam at swanhill.net.au wrote:

>Can anyone explain please why the following definition ( from the
>Python documentation)
>
Thank you.  Problem solved.


From tebeka at lycosmail.com  Sun Jan 28 03:59:44 2001
From: tebeka at lycosmail.com (Miki Tebeka)
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 10:59:44 +0200
Subject: Python 2.1 slower than 2.0
References: <mailman.980616572.26954.python-list@python.org> <94v49b$fhueb$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <950n22$pfj@news.or.intel.com>

On my win2k 2*P500 I get:

[10:57]>c:/apps/Python20/python.exe pystone.py
Pystone(1.1) time for 10000 passes = 1.55122
This machine benchmarks at 6446.56 pystones/second

[10:58]>c:/apps/Python21/python.exe pystone.py
Pystone(1.1) time for 10000 passes = 1.60395
This machine benchmarks at 6234.6 pystones/second

A little slowdown here as well.

Bye.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
Smile, damn it, smile.

lambda msg: {
 'name' : 'Miki Tebeka',
 'email' : 'tebeka at lycosmail.com',
 'homepage' : 'www.tebeka.freeservers.com',
 'quote' : "I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it."
}[msg]





From joe at apk.net  Sun Jan  7 01:50:28 2001
From: joe at apk.net (Joseph T. Adams)
Date: 7 Jan 2001 06:50:28 GMT
Subject: Should I learn Python or Java?
References: <HEO56.5504$y9.2881293@typhoon.we.rr.com>
Message-ID: <9393jk$fku$1@plonk.apk.net>

Charlotte Williams <charlottwilliams at mediaone.net> wrote:
: Hello,

:     I am a Visual Basic programmer who wants to increase his knowledge of
: programming languages.  Now that the curses, boos, and barrage of rotten
: fruit are out of the way, I would like to ask this group a few questions
: :-) ...


Welcome to the Light Side.  We hope you'll stay!   :)


: I notice that there is a lot of demand for Java programmers.  The only
: experience I have with an OO language is Smalltalk.   My questions are:

: 1.  Which language would be best to learn, Java or Python.  From a VB
: standpoint, which has the least learning curve?

That probably is going to depend on what you want to do.  Java and
Python have different strengths.  I've found both fairly simple and
easy to learn.

Smalltalk is far more similar to Java than to Python, so this may make
Java feel a little more familiar for you.

But I'd strongly recommend learning *both* languages if possible.


: 2.  Is going from object-based to object-oriented programming that huge a
: jump?   I want to learn an OO language, however I plan on utilizing it in my
: career.

It is a jump for people who know only VB, but Smalltalk is arguably
the purest OOPL, so with that background you shouldn't have much trouble.


: 3. Which one is the most "fun" to program in?

I kind of like both.


: 4.  Is Python multi-platform?  How is it's performance compared to JAVA in
: an internet situation?  It's reliability?

Python is very portable/cross-platform - arguably in some respects
more so than Java.

Can't address the performance or portability issues as I've never had
any occasion to directly compare them.



: 5.  Do you for see Python as becoming a major player like Java servlets and
: MTS?  Can you see Python demand outstripping Java demand in 2 years time?

In 2 years, unlikely, since Java has a large and growing mindshare
inside medium to large IT organizations.

Over time, I would expect both to grow, largely at the expense of
lower level languages including C and VB.  Python will probably grow
faster, but I don't see it ever replacing Java because the two
languages have very different design goals and fill very different
niches.


: Many of these questions are in response to a post I saw earlier where Python
: was being touted as the next evolution of OO programming.  It went something
: like...
: C --> C++ --> Java --> Python.

: I'm really interested in hearing from VB programmers that decided to jump
: into one or both of the languages,  has pretty good knowledge (enough to get
: a Java or Python job) and the headaches and experiences they had learning
: about them.  Do you need a formal CS education to grasp them?  I tried
: finding information on these two, but the experiences I always found were C
: or C++ programmers that tried to tackle them.  Some sites actually belittled
: me as a VB programmer.  Since I have heard such good things about this
: groups hospitality, I thought I would ask here first.  Thanks.


I'm actually an xBase guy who was forced by the market into VB, but is
now trying to learn some more powerful (and portable) languages
including both Java and Python.  I don't have a strong CS background,
but wish I did, and am now belatedly beginning to focus more on
learning theory and application of that theory, rather than just the
mechanics of a specific tool, because it seems to have a much greater
effect on the quality and cost of the final product, particularly
during the maintenance phase.


Joe


From fredrik at effbot.org  Thu Jan 25 15:04:30 2001
From: fredrik at effbot.org (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 20:04:30 GMT
Subject: Tkinter vs wxPython: your opinions?
References: <3A6F899F.E164F628@home.com> <hvZb6.2156$_8.33280@news1.rdc1.bc.home.com> <slrn9710o1.73.cerutti@fiad06.norwich.edu>
Message-ID: <iF%b6.9208$Qb7.1327643@newsb.telia.net>

Neil Cerutti wrote:
> My advice, although I've got limited experience, is to go with
> Tkinter, and read the following great document, by Python Labs'
> Fredrik Lundh:

footnot: I work for Secret Labs, also known as PythonWare.

(for some reason, someone thought it would be a good idea to
create a new company name from two of our trademarks...)

Cheers /F





From eandroid at my-deja.com  Mon Jan  8 11:42:09 2001
From: eandroid at my-deja.com (eandroid at my-deja.com)
Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2001 16:42:09 GMT
Subject: Arrow Keys in the Interpreter Interface
Message-ID: <93cqku$prk$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

I use zsh as my shell instead of bash and as a result my arrow keys do
not properly work in the interpretter, printing ^[[A instead of
scrolling back though my history. Has anyone seen this? If I change my
default shell to bash and relogin it starts working. I think that this
may be related to scripts that the shell runs on login but Python is the
only program that seems affected.

Thanks, I appreciate all suggestions.


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From sholden at holdenweb.com  Thu Jan 11 11:57:09 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 11:57:09 -0500
Subject: ActivePython2.0 - Server Side objects for ASP problem
References: <93j0qi$7cv$1@bob.news.rcn.net> <tK876.2719$24.38513@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com> <93k6k5$1g7$1@bob.news.rcn.net> <9li76.10661$X3.66765@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com> <3A5DD081.F37275A@gte.net>
Message-ID: <aDl76.778$mD5.9994@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com>

"Steve Williams" <sandj.williams at gte.net> wrote in message
news:3A5DD081.F37275A at gte.net...
> Steve Holden wrote:
>
> > "Satheesh Babu" <vsbabu at erols.com> wrote in message
> > news:93k6k5$1g7$1 at bob.news.rcn.net...
> > [snip]
>
> > > Making a COM object on the server is also beyond me.
> >
> > If you get a copy of Mark Hammond and Andy Robinson's "Python
Programming on
> > Win32" you'll be doing it before bedtime and thinking nothing of it.
> > Seriously, it's a lot less complicated than you might imagine.
> >
>
> [snip]
>
> Danger Will Robinson!!
>
> You can, indeed, write and install a COM object on the server before
bedtime,
> but you might be up all night getting your client to talk to it.  Some
pitfalls:
>
> 1)    The client doesn't have Python installed.  It uses MS Access or VB
or
> Excel or Word.  How do you register your COM server on the client?   Whose
> classid/appid do you use?  Light a taper and go down into the regedit
dungeon.
>
> 2)    When you try to use the COM object you get 'Permission Denied'.
Time to
> read a ton of MS Q documents and maybe talk to an unfriendly and ignorant
NT
> administrator.
>
> 3)    When you try to use the COM object, you get 'ActiveX can't create. .
.'.
> Time for some more bedtime reading.
>
> 4)    Your client is a laptop manufactured in the Pleistocene era and
needs
> dcomcnfg and regsvr32. . .  Don't forget the service packs.
>
> 5)    You call your friends and they say "I've never had that problem,
maybe you
> should install MTS. . ."
>
I understand these objections. But I also understood Satheesh to mean he was
thinking of having the web server communicate with the COM object, not the
web client. He clearly knows what he's doing in that area (did you take a
look at the site he was testing with?), and he clearly already had PythonCom
installed on his server (even if it was PWS: the same server I used to debug
his original problem).

In other words the COM object's client will be the web server, which has
Python installed.

So I suspect that all your valid objections are objections to something I
wasn't suggesting, and are not required. I could be wrong, though. Maybe I
*was* suggesting that, or maybe that *is* required :-)

if-mts-is-the-answer-then-the-problem-was-probably-created-by-microsoft-ly
y'rs  - steve





From kern at myrddin.caltech.edu  Sun Jan 28 22:29:30 2001
From: kern at myrddin.caltech.edu (Robert Kern)
Date: 29 Jan 2001 03:29:30 GMT
Subject: Hack request: rational numbers
References: <951h34$tch$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
    <Pine.LNX.4.21.0101251759070.28148-100000@kev.ioc.ee>
    <mailman.980702855.389.python-list@python.org>
    <2W%c6.128157$ge4.46108705@news2.rdc2.tx.home.com>
    <3A749696.2BD57BA9@alcyone.com>
    <mailman.980721037.21559.python-list@python.org>
    <3A74A0DD.30DE420A@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <952o2q$3ll@gap.cco.caltech.edu>

In article <3A74A0DD.30DE420A at alcyone.com>,
	Erik Max Francis <max at alcyone.com> writes:
> Issac Trotts wrote:
> 
>> > (There is a geometric algebra module for Python, by the way.)
>> 
>> I've been looking for something like this.  Do you know the URL?
> 
> I don't know if there's a Web page for it, but it was announced on
> comp.lang.python:
> 
>     http://www.deja.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=662575210
> 

-- 
Robert Kern
kern at caltech.edu

"In the fields of hell where the grass grows high
 Are the graves of dreams allowed to die."


From jafo-pythonlist at tummy.com  Sun Jan 21 01:54:43 2001
From: jafo-pythonlist at tummy.com (Sean Reifschneider)
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 23:54:43 -0700
Subject: curses, python20/152, RH70/62, postgresql problems
In-Reply-To: <94731d$9j4$1@nnrp1.deja.com>; from dubal@my-deja.com on Thu, Jan 18, 2001 at 03:44:49PM +0000
References: <94731d$9j4$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <20010120235443.D20336@tummy.com>

On Thu, Jan 18, 2001 at 03:44:49PM +0000, dubal at my-deja.com wrote:
>First we tried to install the Beopen Py20 rpm on
>RedHat 7.0. It looks for some old libs and
>doesn't install.

Ugh.  Yeah, I found the BeOpen RPM to be lacking.  I've got a copy I've tweeked
a bit, in particular it includes SSL support in the sockets, and doesn't stick
Python in /usr/local/bin.  You can download the SRPM from:

	ftp://ftp.tummy.com/pub/tummy/RPMS/SRPMS

Turn it into a binary RPM with "rpm --rebuild Python-2.0-1.src.rpm" (which
stores the binary RPM in /usr/src/redhat/RPMS/i386 or the like by default).
Note that this builds Python as "/usr/bin/python2", so you can install it
*NEXT TO* instead of on top of Python 1.5.2.  This can be changed by
installing the SRPM, and editing the .spec file -- the third line or so
specifies what the suffix is -- commenting that out should make it install
to /usr/bin/python

You'll probably need to install the glibc and possibly gcc errata from
RedHat to build it as AMK mentioned.

Sean
-- 
 "Action...  Romance...  Welding...  That movie has everything."
                 -- Evelyn Mitchell speaking about _Subway_, 1998
Sean Reifschneider, Inimitably Superfluous <jafo at tummy.com>
tummy.com - Linux Consulting since 1995. Qmail, KRUD, Firewalls, Python



From ullrich at math.okstate.edu  Sat Jan 13 13:31:31 2001
From: ullrich at math.okstate.edu (David C. Ullrich)
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 18:31:31 GMT
Subject: is Python fully object oriented ?
References: <mailman.979292174.19166.python-list@python.org> <93nifo$qa7$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <PTM76.33769$ge4.13694384@news2.rdc2.tx.home.com>
Message-ID: <93q6u4$rh9$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

In article <PTM76.33769$ge4.13694384 at news2.rdc2.tx.home.com>,
  "Rainer Deyke" <root at rainerdeyke.com> wrote:
> "David C. Ullrich" <ullrich at math.okstate.edu> wrote in message
> news:93nifo$qa7$1 at nnrp1.deja.com...
> > A person could invent syntax to do exactly that one thing
> > with an implicit self, maybe with an "inherited" keyword
> > as in the one language I know with an implicit self (Object
> > Pascal). How would a person do
> >
> > class C(A, B):
> >   def __init__(self):
> >     A.__init__(self)
> >     B.__init__(self)
> >
> > with an implicit self?
>
> The following is valid C++:
[...]
>
> A better example might be a non-constructor function:

Yes.

> struct A {
>   void f() {}
> };
>
> struct B {
>   void f() {}
> };
>
> struct C : A, B {
>   void f() { A::f(); B::f(); }
> };

Ok. I won't ask how you would call a method of
another class passing something other than the
current instance in place of an implicit self -
probably you'd have an answer, and if you didn't
it would be a slightly contrived question anyway.

I can't help it, I have to ask. All the examples
so far have been a little special, like the
"other" class is an ancestor. Can a person do
something equivalent to

AnyClassAtAll.AMethod(AnyInstanceOfAnyOtherClass)

with an implicit self? (It just seems to me that
an explicit self _must_ be more general than
an implicit self, allowing _something_ that an
implicit self doesn't. Maybe not.)

Besides, I was wondering how you'd do it in Python,
not in C++. (haha)

> --
> Rainer Deyke (root at rainerdeyke.com)
> Shareware computer games           -           http://rainerdeyke.com
> "In ihren Reihen zu stehen heisst unter Feinden zu kaempfen" - Abigor
>
>

--
Oh, dejanews lets you add a sig - that's useful...


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From cpsoct at my-deja.com  Sat Jan 20 03:23:12 2001
From: cpsoct at my-deja.com (cpsoct at my-deja.com)
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 08:23:12 GMT
Subject: how to test for nesting inlist
Message-ID: <94bhte$4iv$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

Is there a way to test if a list in nested and if so how deep? so that
you could type

y=[1,2,3]
x=[1,[2,3]]

howDeep(y)
howDeep(x)

and it would return 0 (no nesting) for y and 1, for x (1 level of
nesting)

Is this possible? It would seem really useful, but i don't see anything
in the docs about how to do this.


cheers,
kevin parks
seoul korea
cpsoct at lycos.com


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From tbryan at python.net  Mon Jan  8 19:13:39 2001
From: tbryan at python.net (Thomas A. Bryan)
Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2001 19:13:39 -0500
Subject: Problems with py-indent-region in XEmacs
References: <93655e$rds$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <3A5723C1.7B53721@python.net> <93d52g$46g$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <3A5A57B3.1D87EF3D@python.net>

redhouse at my-deja.com wrote:
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> The thing I'm doing is that I am taking a parm list and assigning each
> parameter to a class data member of the same name. I have an elisp
> function which is just a glorified macro to do this, 

I'm guessing that you're also an (X)Emacs fan.  

You could start on the def line with something like this:

(defun next-line-indent()
  (interactive)
  (back-to-indentation)
  (next-line 1)
  (forward-char-command 4)
)


> very frequently and was trying to speed it up.

Never type something twice when you can program it once, right?

laziness-is-one-the-first-great-virtues-of-a-programmer*-ly yours
---Tom

*_Programming_Perl_, p. 609


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Jan 12 03:19:07 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 09:19:07 +0100
Subject: is Python fully object oriented ?
References: <20010110184830.13286.00000826@ng-fg1.aol.com> <3A5E5C21.3E036BFE@intelligenesis.net> <3A5E935D.CF641658@dcube-resource.be> <mailman.979279694.10695.python-list@python.org> <GKy76.5649$Qb7.787381@newsb.telia.net>
Message-ID: <93meoq0bit@news1.newsguy.com>

"Fredrik Lundh" <fredrik at effbot.org> wrote in message
news:GKy76.5649$Qb7.787381 at newsb.telia.net...
> Ben Hutchison wrote:
> > I'd like to see some primary evidence of this "design choice" process,
describing
> > the motivating reasons. Presumably there are some web references
somewhere. My
> > instinct tell me it resembles an implementation consequence, rather than
a free and
> > deliberate choice.
>
>     http://www.python.org/doc/FAQ.html#6.7
>
>     "6.7. Why must 'self' be declared and used explicitly in
>     method definitions and calls?"
>
>     "By asking this question you reveal your C++ background. :-)"

Actually, these days, a very similar question might come from somebody
who's never touched C++ with a 10-foot pole and detests it -- a 100%
Pure Java user, for example.


> (summary: python's not C++.  given Python's object model, this is a
> simple and straightforward solution to the "is this a local variable or
> an instance variable?" problem. and guido likes it. end of story.)

The answer's substance looks impeccable to me -- I was just wondering
about the reference to C++ specifically, which might perhaps cause
some consternation...


Alex





From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Tue Jan  9 17:32:17 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 23:32:17 +0100
Subject: Should I join the PSA if it's "no longer relevant"?
References: <e6K66.1478$Oe.8826@tor-nn1.netcom.ca> <t5mvkjd31cvh98@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <93g3lj0e7c@news2.newsguy.com>

"Lyle Johnson" <ljohnson at resgen.com> wrote in message
news:t5mvkjd31cvh98 at corp.supernews.com...
    [snip]
> This is not a direct answer to your question, but if you're just looking
for
> website & other development-related hosting for an open source project you
> might consider SourceForge:
>
>     http://sourceforge.net
>
> I've had pretty good luck with them so far (for hosting FXPy).

Or OpenAve.Net (http://www.openave.net/) -- I have no experience
with them yet, but (after a couple of months of reasonably plain
sailing) I've found the service at sourceforge over the last month or
so degrading near-unbearably, to the point that I'm seriously thinking
of moving elsewhere unless they get their act together again.


Alex





From KatMouse at gmx.de  Wed Jan 10 14:21:09 2001
From: KatMouse at gmx.de (Eduard Hiti)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 20:21:09 +0100
Subject: Reading Microsoft Outlook Express .dbx files
References: <h7_66.8949$X3.91000@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <93ico2$vui$00$1@news.t-online.com>

Go to www.freshmeat.net and type 'outlook' into the find box. You'll get
links to various Outlook .dbx converters which should be open sourced. Maybe
those will give you an idea about how to proceed.

Eduard

"Steve Holden" <sholden at holdenweb.com> wrote in message
news:h7_66.8949$X3.91000 at e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com...
| In my trek through the various mail packages the Windoze user may be
| confronted with I am currently battling with Outlook Express.  It's
actually
| rather better than I feared.
|
| Its native folder format appears to be a ".dbx" file, about which I have
no
| information.  Does any reader have experience with either reading these
| files, or automating OEx to provide them to a Python program in
RFC822-style
| formats?
|
| Or, indeed, any other way of extracting mail items from the files created
by
| OEx.
|
| regards
|  Steve
| --
| Tools, training and technology can help you meet your information needs
|
|




From m.faassen at vet.uu.nl  Mon Jan 15 07:19:31 2001
From: m.faassen at vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen)
Date: 15 Jan 2001 12:19:31 GMT
Subject: is Python fully object oriented ?
References: <mailman.979520476.17175.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <93upsj$k0a$1@newshost.accu.uu.nl>

Delaney, Timothy <tdelaney at avaya.com> wrote:
[snip me describing how object attributes can be copied into local
 variables]
> Ooh - dangerous in a multithreaded app ... ;)

I have little experience programming multithreaded apps, but find it
hard to believe that avoiding this techniques makes all the danger go
away without the need for special attention anyway. Could you elaborate?

Regards,

Martijn
-- 
History of the 20th Century: WW1, WW2, WW3?
No, WWW -- Could we be going in the right direction?


From junaftnoon at nospamplzyahoo.com  Thu Jan 18 07:19:28 2001
From: junaftnoon at nospamplzyahoo.com (June Kim)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 21:19:28 +0900
Subject: Displaying HTMLs with Tkinter
References: <945db6$umq$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <945g0b$sd$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <3A66C964.46EEE52C@mail.dvz.fh-koeln.de>
Message-ID: <946n3c$p48$1@news.nuri.net>

"Stephan Effelsberg" <b012414 at mail.dvz.fh-koeln.de> wrote in message
news:3A66C964.46EEE52C at mail.dvz.fh-koeln.de...
>
>
> penman schrieb:
> <...>
>
> > The Tk module indeed does have the capability to display HTML.  If you
> > look
> > in the Demos/www directory in the standard Python distribution, try
> > running
> > "www8.py file:<filename>" and "www12.py file:<filename>".
> > [end of quote]
> >
> > But I can't find the files anywhere. Are they obsolete now?
>
> In my distribution (1.5.2 for Windows) it is located in Demo/tkinter/www .
>
> You can still download this version if it is missing(?) in yours .
>
>

The tkinter demos from Python 1.5.2 spit out raw html texts to text widgets.
If you want to interpret and show them like a web browser, just as
wxHTMLWindow does, you'd better look for Grail or PySol.
However, PySol's tkhtml doesn't seem work very well with general HTMLs --
it's too slow and heavy. Haven't tried Grail yet.

Best regards,

June.




From mwh21 at cam.ac.uk  Fri Jan 26 08:49:30 2001
From: mwh21 at cam.ac.uk (Michael Hudson)
Date: 26 Jan 2001 13:49:30 +0000
Subject: python-2.1 function attributes
References: <mailman.980515832.8534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m3hf2mxw2d.fsf@atrus.jesus.cam.ac.uk>

"Tony J Ibbs (Tibs)" <tony at lsl.co.uk> writes:

> Michael Hudson wrote:
> > How about "having"?
> >
> > def func(param) having (publish=1, secure=0):
> >     """ docco """
> >     print "bobbins"
> >
> > to emphasize the attribute-ness one could use a dot prefix:
> >
> > def func(param) having (.publish=1, .secure=0):
> >     """ docco """
> >     print "bobbins"
> >
> > I think I like this (though I'm not sure about the dot
> > prefix).  I might see if I can whip up a patch...
> 
> Yes, "having" is better than "with". That's neat. And it doesn't have
> any obvious other meaning for me. (the important thing was probably
> getting away from "with" - once that's done, if people really don't like
> "having", suggesting new words is simple enough, at leisure)

Cheers for the support!

> I'm not sure about the dot prefix either - it makes them obviously odd,
> but feels sort-of unPythonic. I think I prefer without.

Whichever I do it will be dead simple to convert to the other, so I'll
do both and play around with them, and post them to sf (assuming I can
actually work out how to write the patch).

Done Grammar/Grammar, on to Python/compile.c (haven't been in *there*
for a while...)!

Cheers,
M.

-- 
  ARTHUR:  But which is probably incapable of drinking the coffee.
                    -- The Hitch-Hikers Guide to the Galaxy, Episode 6


From debl at NOnoNoSpammytheworld.com  Sat Jan  6 20:15:29 2001
From: debl at NOnoNoSpammytheworld.com (David Lees)
Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2001 01:15:29 GMT
Subject: Should I learn Python or Java?
References: <HEO56.5504$y9.2881293@typhoon.we.rr.com>
Message-ID: <3A57C33A.7AB8DF6D@NOnoNoSpammytheworld.com>

I only feel competent to answer your question 1, 3 and a bit of 4. I
have done VB over the years from version 1 to 5 along with a bit of C
and started playing with Python recently.  I have only done the 'hello
world' type Java programs, but I can tell you that Python is a LOT
easier in terms of learning curve.  I have done several smallish Python
programs (The biggest about 200 lines). and found it a pleasure to work
with.  It is a very different experience than VB, because the standard
IDEs (IDLE and PythonWin in the PC world) are not GUI builders. 
However, once I got a little familiar with the string library (for the
particular text processing I am doing) I found the environment pretty
good.  You can switch back and forth between an interactive screen and a
program you are writing/debugging.  I have found it real helpful to be
able to try out methods and functions interactively while coding.  The
experience is somewhat analogous to VB in terms of ease of debugging and
development, but the feel IS very different.  However, you will not find
anywhere near the number of books to guide you.

Also, this group is a big help for advice on specific language details.

Multiplatform?  It is excellent.  At my office we run both RedHat Linux
and NT and at home I run Win98.  The same source code runs all 3 OS
without modification.  Of course there are some functions that are OS
dependenent, like spawning and threads that you need to read the
documentation.  The book by Beazley is a real nice compact summary that
gives you a lot of this info.  The tutorial is a bit terse, so I would
suggest a book like the one by Alan Gauld (Learning to Program using
Python) or the Lutz and Ascher Book (Learning Python).

I have started to play with some of the internet capability.  My biggest
problem has been lack of examples, but I think there are several authors
working on remedying that.  Further, the simple cgi program that I wrote
and another simple URL reader that I wrote, with help from the folks on
this group, work great.

The only downside I can see is that in terms of jobs, Java seems to be
bigtime compared with Python.  However, if enough of us use it this
could change :)

david lees


<snip>
> 1.  Which language would be best to learn, Java or Python.  From a VB
> standpoint, which has the least learning curve?
> 2.  Is going from object-based to object-oriented programming that huge a
> jump?   I want to learn an OO language, however I plan on utilizing it in my
> career.
> 3. Which one is the most "fun" to program in?
> 4.  Is Python multi-platform?  How is it's performance compared to JAVA in
> an internet situation?  It's reliability?
> 5.  Do you for see Python as becoming a major player like Java servlets and
> MTS?  Can you see Python demand outstripping Java demand in 2 years time?
> 
> Many of these questions are in response to a post I saw earlier where Python
> was being touted as the next evolution of OO programming.  It went something
> like...
> C --> C++ --> Java --> Python.
> 
> I'm really interested in hearing from VB programmers that decided to jump
> into one or both of the languages,  has pretty good knowledge (enough to get
> a Java or Python job) and the headaches and experiences they had learning
> about them.  Do you need a formal CS education to grasp them?  I tried
> finding information on these two, but the experiences I always found were C
> or C++ programmers that tried to tackle them.  Some sites actually belittled
> me as a VB programmer.  Since I have heard such good things about this
> groups hospitality, I thought I would ask here first.  Thanks.
> 
> David Williams


From kirschh at lionbioscience.com  Fri Jan 19 03:41:41 2001
From: kirschh at lionbioscience.com (Harald Kirsch)
Date: 19 Jan 2001 09:41:41 +0100
Subject: How to close all files between fork and exec?
References: <yv27l3upooj.fsf@lionsp093.lion-ag.de> <9463d9$eif$1@panix6.panix.com> <yv27l3t483r.fsf@lionsp093.lion-ag.de> <9475av$t13$1@panix2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <yv2lms8lyre.fsf@lionsp093.lion-ag.de>

aahz at panix.com (Aahz Maruch) writes:

> In article <yv27l3t483r.fsf at lionsp093.lion-ag.de>,
> Harald Kirsch  <kirschh at lionbioscience.com> wrote:
> >aahz at panix.com (Aahz Maruch) writes:
> >> In article <yv27l3upooj.fsf at lionsp093.lion-ag.de>,
> >> Harald Kirsch  <kirschh at lionbioscience.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>Python has fork/exec. I want to use it. After fork and before exec I
> >>>would like the child process to close all files other than 0, 1 and 2
> >>>(i.e. standard input/output/error). 
> >> 
> >> Why not simply keep track of all open files in a dict or list?
> >
> >Thereby duplicating the work the operating system does anyway? And how
> >would a module for forking special processes keep track of the files
> >opened by the main program calling it? Hmm...
> 
> from fork import open
> 
Hmm, this is becoming somehow interesting because I have got no idea
why you think this relates in any way to my question. Either you try
to tease me or we have a communication problem. But I think I should
stay calm and try to start all over:

Suppose you have the assignment to write a module for me which, for
whatever reasons, has to fork/exec certain subprocesses. I want to use
your module as a service in my software. But my software will have a
whole bunch of files open when it calls your module. How did your
module keep track of all these files so that it is able to close them
all before execing. --- If you now say that your module cannot do that
and that it would be the obligation of my software to close unneded
files before calling your module, I at least start to understand your
arguments. However I maintain the opinion that this would be nonsense.


> As for your first question, you're always responsible of keeping track
> of whatever resources you're using; it's just that sometimes, the
> language you're using provides conveniences to make that easier.

Philosophically deep, general statements don't really help me on
practical problems. 

Thanks anyway,
  Harald Kirsch

-- 
----------------+------------------------------------------------------
Harald Kirsch   | kirschh at lionbioscience.com | "How old is the epsilon?"
LION Bioscience | +49 6221 4038 172          |        -- Paul Erd?s
       *** Please do not send me copies of your posts. ***


From grante at visi.com  Wed Jan 17 13:28:58 2001
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 18:28:58 GMT
Subject: threading: how to kill a (possibly blocked) thread?
References: <3A649FE4.E582D0E0@ll.mit.edu> <u1yu2vmiq.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com> <944ekb$ri$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <Kvl96.137$eI2.88934@ruti.visi.com>

In article <944ekb$ri$1 at nnrp1.deja.com>, rturpin at my-deja.com wrote:

>> What you really need to do is ensure that your threads
>> can accept an external request to terminate themselves ..
>
>The ideal way to do this is with a timed interrupt that
>invokes a function in the thread. The thread would start
>by setting this interrupt:
>
>  set_interrupt(8, funcCallBack)

Where does set_interrupt come from?

I can't find it in any of the documentation.  I did a search on
www.python.org, and it claims a hit on section 4 (Exception
Handling) of the API reference manual, but when examined, it
doesn't contain the string "set_interrupt".

A search of comp.lang.python turns up only the occurrance quoted
above.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  AIEEEEE! I am having
                                  at               an UNDULATING EXPERIENCE!
                               visi.com            


From dsh8290 at rit.edu  Thu Jan 11 12:23:36 2001
From: dsh8290 at rit.edu (D-Man)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 12:23:36 -0500
Subject: Defining a new exception with multiple args
In-Reply-To: <gnir5t80r7asgcp36jtssum2mspk5i5h4d@4ax.com>; from danielk@aracnet.com on Thu, Jan 11, 2001 at 07:14:25AM -0800
References: <gnir5t80r7asgcp36jtssum2mspk5i5h4d@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <20010111122336.A18281@dman.rh.rit.edu>

On Thu, Jan 11, 2001 at 07:14:25AM -0800, Daniel Klein wrote:
| Using the Beazley book as a guide, I have defined a new exception as:
| 
| class RecordNotFoundException(Exception):
|     def __init__(self, filename, recordid):
|         self.filename = filename
|         self.recordid = recordid
| 

Here you have set some instance variables that only exist in your
class.

| However, this is what happens when I raise this exception:
| 
| >>> raise RecordNotFoundException("myfile", "myid")
| Traceback (innermost last):
|   File "<pyshell#40>", line 1, in ?
|     raise RecordNotFoundException("myfile", "myid")
| RecordNotFoundException: <unprintable instance object>

Here the interpreter has the exception instance, but the print
routine doesn't know about your special arguments.

 
| Why is it showing '<unprintable instance object>' instead of the arguments I
| passed?
| 
| Thanks for any assistence,
| Daniel Klein

try this:

class MyExcept( Exception ) :
	def __init__( self , *args ) :
		# init the Exception's members
		Exception.__init__( self , args )

raise MyExcept( "hello" )
raise MyExcept( "hello" , "another arg" )

# You can even type this without any error (that is, other than the one
# you are explicitly creating ;-))

raise Exception( "first arg" , "second arg" , "etc" )


And you will see the arguments printed.  The *args argument is a
tuple, so when the exception is printed, you will have the arguments
wrapped in ()'s.  Check the documentation on exceptions,  there is
probably (at least I hope so) an function you can define that will
handle custom printing of custom Exceptions.

HTH,
-D




From Dan.Rolander at marriott.com  Thu Jan 18 13:44:29 2001
From: Dan.Rolander at marriott.com (Rolander, Dan)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 13:44:29 -0500
Subject: How to run script from interpreter?
Message-ID: <6176E3D8E36FD111B58900805FA7E0F80CCF62D5@mcnc-mdm1-ex01>

What is the best way to run a python script from within the interpreter?
What command should I use?

Thanks,
Dan



From db3l at fitlinxx.com  Fri Jan 26 20:58:19 2001
From: db3l at fitlinxx.com (David Bolen)
Date: 26 Jan 2001 20:58:19 -0500
Subject: Use of os.popen3() under WinNT4
References: <3a71e809$0$7160$272ea4a1@news.execpc.com>
Message-ID: <uk87h92o4.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com>

David Niergarth <jdnier at execpc.com> writes:

> >>> import os
> >>> command = 'gswin32c -help'
> >>> child_stdout, child_stdin, child_stderr = os.popen3(command, mode='b')
> 
> child_stdout ends up as a file descriptor opened in write mode, while
> child_stdin is a file descriptor opened in read mode; in and out seems
> backwards here. In the above command, Ghostscript prints a help message and
> quits. To get at the help message, you need to read from stdin.

The os.popen# interface result tuple is not in the same order as that
for the popen2 module.  I forget the exact reason (popen2 was first I
think, but importing the win32all pipe module into the Python core for
Windows was different, and I think considered more regular, and
probably some other stuff).  I think there was some discussion on the
python-dev list about it all.

The net of it is that the os.popen# functions result tuple is not the
same as the popen2 module functions tuple for stdin/stdout:

    os.popen#       child_stdin, child_stdout, child_stderr
    popen2.popen#   child_stdout, child_stdin, child_stderr

You can find comments to this effect (both availability and a warning
about the inversion of the result) in the reference in 6.1.2 for the
OS module and 6.8 for the popen2 module.  Just don't depend on the
docstrings for the popen2 module to work for the os module.

Things are consistent across platform in each module though.  If you
use the os.popen# functions, then they use the builtin under Windows,
or wrap the popen2 module under Unix, but in the latter case reverse
the result.  Conversely, if you use the popen2 module functions, then
they wrap the builtin os.popen# functions under Windows, but reverse
the result.

> More importantly, if you run a command that doesn't immediately terminate,
> trying to read from child_stdin or child_stderr before doing a
> child_stdout.close() causes a hang. (The only way I've found to recover is
> to kill the parent Python process.) Is there a way to tell if the process
> has terminated before trying a .read() or, better yet, is there a way to
> signal or force the process to finish?

Deadlock is always a risk when you are in control of both the stdin
and stdout handles for the child process, depending on the interaction
of how both you and the child process handle I/O.  First, let's invert
your handles to their reality, so the problem becomes hanging while
trying to read from child_stdout or child_stderr before doing a
child_stdin.close() - which sounds more sensible, or at least
explainable.

In such a case, what I expect is happening is you anticipate your read
eventually terminating (with an empty result) when the process
finishes and exits (closing its stdout).  But the process is still
waiting for further input on its stdin before it wants to exit, and
you're neither providing more input nor have you closed it to signal
to the process that you are done.  So you both wait for more "input".
Deadlock.

In this case, since you know that this is how this particular process
behaves, the simplest approach may just be designing your application
so that you know you're going to close the stdin of the child before
you ever expect to see the stdout close.  Since presumably you are
feeding input to the child, just close its stdin once you are done
with your input.

A more general mechanism is to handle the stdin/stdout flows in
separate threads.  That way, even if your thread reading the stdout is
blocked, presumably the thread that is supplying stdin to the child
will eventually finish and close that file, thus freeing up your
reading thread.  Note that even in this case there is a risk of
deadlock if you design badly so that you end up in a state where you
aren't draining the child's stdout, but your thread to drain the
stdout is coupled to the feeding of stdin, which may then block
because the child isn't reading it until it can get its stdout done.
But in a threaded model that's normally not too hard to avoid.

--
-- David
-- 
/-----------------------------------------------------------------------\
 \               David Bolen            \   E-mail: db3l at fitlinxx.com  /
  |             FitLinxx, Inc.            \  Phone: (203) 708-5192    |
 /  860 Canal Street, Stamford, CT  06902   \  Fax: (203) 316-5150     \
\-----------------------------------------------------------------------/


From hamish_lawson at yahoo.co.uk  Thu Jan 18 12:28:18 2001
From: hamish_lawson at yahoo.co.uk (Hamish Lawson)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 17:28:18 GMT
Subject: Is it possible to write a python module in Java?
References: <3A6713C3.88C2F64F@satis.com>
Message-ID: <947935$fhk$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

Julien Reynier <julienr at satis.com> wrote:

> I know it's possible to write a python module in C or C++. But is it
> possible to do the same thing with Java? And how ?
>
> I know JPython, but JPython can't access to system call as os.chdir(),
> os.system() etc So I want to use Python.

I'm not quite sure what you are after (do you want to write an
extension module in Java for use by Python programs, or write a module
in Python for use by Java programs), but the Java-Python Extension
project may be what you are looking for:

    http://sourceforge.net/projects/jpe

Hamish Lawson


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From tim.one at home.com  Mon Jan 29 18:35:19 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 18:35:19 -0500
Subject: marshal doesn't work with "file-like" objects
In-Reply-To: <XKhd6.10096$AH6.1624190@newsc.telia.net>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCOEBHIMAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Tim]
> ...
> You could do this instead:
>
>     filelikeobject.write(marshal.dumps(object))
>
> Reading a sequence of marshaled values back from a file-like
> object is more of a puzzle!

[/F, to Chuck]
> ...
> Note the second part ("more of a puzzle" is a polite way to say
> "impossible, if you care about performance").

That wasn't my intent, but I confess I don't have time or interest to flesh
it out.  Sketch:  if Chuck wants a filelike object to marshal in and out of,
he can craft a filelike object that also tucks away an index (or length
prefixes, a la Rainer's followup), so he can know in advance how much of the
stream needs to be read.

I've got no interest in seeing such cruft added to the Python core, though.

marhsal-works-great-for-what-it-was-designed-for-ly y'rs  - tim




From joconnor at cybermesa.com  Thu Jan 25 16:27:33 2001
From: joconnor at cybermesa.com (Jay O'Connor)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 21:27:33 GMT
Subject: __set_attr__
References: <t6v3s5fv3t7f3e@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <3a7099e0.64296487@news.cybermesa.com>

On Wed, 24 Jan 2001 17:59:19 -0800, "Amritansh Raghav"
<amritansh at mobilian.com> wrote:

>(Newbie alert - its been less than a week)
>
>Under what circumstances does __set_attr__ get callled? I thought it was
>only if the name wasnt found in the dictionary. However I can see my
>function being called even when the name is present. (I print out
>self.__dict__ and also do a self.__dict__.has_key(name) just to make sure
>there isnt a spelling error).
>This is happening within my constructor so I wonder if I need to do
>something special here
>Any help is appreciated
>Thanks


__setattr__ is called for every variable reference.  If you say

	person.lastName = "O'Connor"
it will indeed call __setattr__

__setattr__ is not used for catching erros or misspellings; you simply
use it if there is extra stuff you need to do on variable references.

Take care,
Jay O'Connor
joconnor at cybermesa.com
http://www.cybermesa.com/~joconnor

"God himself plays on the bass strings first, when he tunes the soul"


From grante at visi.com  Fri Jan  5 10:43:09 2001
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 15:43:09 GMT
Subject: Migrating to perl?
References: <3Fa56.4580$of7.216286@news1.atl> <933fa1$j2i$1@newshost.accu.uu.nl> <ggd56.4652$of7.222552@news1.atl>
Message-ID: <hYl56.8800$4c.758580@ruti.visi.com>

In article <ggd56.4652$of7.222552 at news1.atl>, Joel Ricker wrote:

>I heard something about curley braces as well.  No {} for blocks?  Thats
>going to take some getting used to :)

That's what I thought initially, but it took no time at all.

>>I've seen people beinn pleasantly surprised by the quality of
>>answers they've received in this newsgroup, so you may like it.
>
>I know I have been.  Nothing like a friendly newsgroup to
>convince me to switch -- at least take a break from perl for
>awhile to see how the other side lives.

This is one of the friendlier groups I've seen in my 15 years
of Usenetting.  While the "do until" thread got a bit
contentious by Python standards (the worst I recall is somebody
being called a "cowboy"), it was still pretty pleasant compared
to a lot of other groups (even other supposedly technical
groups).

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  I'm RELIGIOUS!! I
                                  at               love a man with a
                               visi.com            HAIRPIECE!! Equip me with
                                                   MISSILES!!


From katz at Glue.umd.edu  Sat Jan 27 13:18:31 2001
From: katz at Glue.umd.edu (Roy Katz)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 13:18:31 -0500
Subject: . Python 2.1 function attributes
In-Reply-To: <mailman.980617472.28020.python-list@python.org>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0101271158190.3501-100000@y.glue.umd.edu>, <Pine.GSO.4.21.0101270135190.7677-100000@y.glue.umd.edu> <mailman.980593892.725.python-list@python.org> <$5A+ZwAGjtc6EwE0@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <14962.62953.304511.523826@anthem.wooz.org> <mailman.980613639.23439.python-list@python.org> <mailman.980617472.28020.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0101271303540.3501-100000@y.glue.umd.edu>

Hello Moshe,
thank you for your response. 

first, to be clear,  I mean *no* hostility towards Moshe or anyone else in
this response. 


On Sat, 27 Jan 2001, Moshe Zadka wrote:

> I disagree: in most cases, it was "well, there was a very ugly way to
> do it, but so-and-so came up with a patch and a convincing argument.".
> 
> Examples:
> 
> Printing:
> Standard output is a sinch:
> 
> print foo, bar
> 
> Does lots of things in an intuitive way (prints new lines and spaces,
> calls str()). But when you decide to modify it to print to standard
> error, or a log file it turns into either
> 
> sys.stderr(str(foo)+' '+str(bar)+'\n')
> 
> Or
> 
> sys.stdout = sys.stderr
> try:
> 	print foo, bar
> finally:
> 	sys.stdout = sys.__stdout__
> 

what is wrong with redirection? must we wrap the output in a try:
anymore than wrap a standard print in a try:?


> Compared to both,
> 
> print >>sys.stderr foo, bar
> 
> Is obvious, simple and easy to understand.

Perhaps simple, but to me it looks like it has the potential to be
ambiguating.  If we have print>>file,  why not print>>obj (if not already
so); if we already have print>>obj, why not extend it to
statement>>obj?  Why stop there? if not statement>>obj, why not 
func>>obj? since obj's can implement __call__(self), why
not obj>>obj?

All messed up. 


> List comprehensions:

I'm fine with this. I really am. 

> You may wonder why it all happened all of a sudden? For years, 
> there was one-and-a-half people working on Python seriously who
> could check in directly to the master CVS. Suddenly an explosion
> of developers happened and there were many more man hours to invest
> in Python.

I'm only interested in why it happened at all, and how to prevent it from
screwing up our language further :)

> > I call for boycotting print>>.  I expect one person, maybe less,
> > to support me on that.  

> Sadly, too many people here support you in that. Sadly, because it's
> a feature that was added by people who write a *lot* of Python, and
> wanted to make Python-writing more fun.

Let's see it! petition! vote! who wants and who doesn't?  No more of this
of this 'Benevolent Dictator' or 'Hey I've got a patch' garbage.  *vote*
and make Python not the patcher's language, not my language, and not
yours, but *our* language. Lechayim, people!



Let's add bless().  I want to change the class of an object at
runtime. How 'bout it?  Add @ to indicate a list! that way, instead of 
'stringlist = string.split('\n')' we have '@stringlist = string'.  Oooh! 
another idea! let's add s///.  Damnit, I want dollar signs! And so on. 

all this when real issues like typing and making int's first-class objects
falls to the wayside. 



Na'im lehakir!
Roeykaleh. 









From gerhard.nospam at bigfoot.de  Thu Jan 11 23:29:48 2001
From: gerhard.nospam at bigfoot.de (Gerhard =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 05:29:48 +0100
Subject: Binaries for mySQL module ?
References: <9%t76.1516$B6.336141@news1.rdc1.md.home.com>
Message-ID: <slrn95t2k7.mh.gerhard.nospam@lilith.hqd-internal.de>

http://highqualdev.com

On Fri, 12 Jan 2001 02:30:29 GMT, Eric Hagemann <ehagemann at home.com> wrote:
>Are there binaries for mySQLmodule for win32 available ? A quick pointer
>would be appreciated

-- 
mail:   gerhard <at> bigfoot <dot> de
web:    http://highqualdev.com


From JoeSmith at BogusAddress.bogusaddress.com  Thu Jan  4 02:50:35 2001
From: JoeSmith at BogusAddress.bogusaddress.com (JoeSmith)
Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 07:50:35 GMT
Subject: list operation '+= ' or assignment problem
Message-ID: <fXV46.83554$A06.2935629@news1.frmt1.sfba.home.com>

I unexpectedly get l1 modified by doing "l += l2" (see example 1).  I take
it is because l and l1 point to the same object.  If I use the string type
instead of the list type, I don't get l2 modified.  I guess that list
assignment is an assignment of the reference to the object and it does not
copy the object.  Where as a string object gets copied (see example 2).

example 1:
>>> l1 = [0, 1]
>>> print l1
[0, 1]
>>> l2 = [2, 3]
>>> l = l1
>>> print l1
[0, 1]
>>> print l
[0, 1]
>>> l += l2
>>> print l1
[0, 1, 2, 3]
>>> print l
[0, 1, 2, 3]
>>>

example 2:
>>> s1 = "1"
>>> s2 = "2"
>>> s = s1
>>> s += s2
>>> print s1
1
>>>





From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sat Jan 27 15:55:42 2001
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 15:55:42 -0500
Subject: undefined variable
References: <nHsc6.252522$59.63479549@news3.rdc1.on.home.com>
Message-ID: <94vcpk$qbr$1@news.udel.edu>

"shaka" <fabrice.n at home.com> wrote in message
news:nHsc6.252522$59.63479549 at news3.rdc1.on.home.com...
>
>  hi, I am a beginner learning python, and I have notice that in python
> variables are not declared or defined.

Python does not have variables in the same sense as other languages
(fixed chunks of memory with one name attached to each).
It has PyObjects with zero to many names attached as labels and access
handles.
'Type' is a property of PyObjects.  It is declared, usually implicitly, in
the creation process.
Names, unlike variables, do not have types; each can be attached to any
object of any type.
Hence there is no type information to be declared or defined in respect to
names.

You can use a name as a variable by always rebinding it objects of the same
type.
This discipline/restriction is, however, a programmer's responsibility.

> But does it mean that your cannot use  the same variable twice
>  and all your variable have to be of different name.

In each namespace, each name is currently attached to exactly one PyObject.

> In java you can have a variable of the same name but of different type
and
> it makes programming much more flexible.

In Python, the same name can be used concurrently in more than one
namespace.

Terry J. Reedy





From lvanderfeltz at knowledgetrax.com  Sat Jan 13 21:31:19 2001
From: lvanderfeltz at knowledgetrax.com (Lennard van der Feltz)
Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 02:31:19 GMT
Subject: ZODB and Python 2.0
References: <mailman.979337025.17444.python-list@python.org> <slrn95vje6.gm.amk@207-172-113-55.s55.tnt5.ann.va.dialup.rcn.com> <DW286.140362$15.29728375@news1.rdc1.az.home.com> <mailman.979423662.10934.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Xb886.141191$15.29867196@news1.rdc1.az.home.com>

That's great news (to me at least). I based my understanding on the
following post (by you, I believe) to the ZEO mailing list:

http://lists.zope.org/pipermail/zope-zeo/2000-October/000172.html

I know it was a while ago, but I haven't seen any further announcements.

Lennard

"Neil Schemenauer" <nas at arctrix.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.979423662.10934.python-list at python.org...
> On Sat, Jan 13, 2001 at 08:31:31PM +0000, Lennard van der Feltz wrote:
> > Isn't the bigger issue that ExtensionClasses are not yet available for
> > Python 2.0?
>
> Huh?  It works fine AFAIK.
>
>   Neil
>




From slhath at flash.net  Mon Jan 15 11:18:12 2001
From: slhath at flash.net (scotth)
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 16:18:12 GMT
Subject: python compiled to native in less than a year?
References: <kcF86.6006$J%.594457@news.flash.net> <Pine.GSO.4.21.0101151106200.7702-100000@z.glue.umd.edu>
Message-ID: <8pF86.6015$J%.595435@news.flash.net>

Since Python will be one of the .NET languages, it will get compiled like
all the other .NET languages.  Whatever the problems, ActiveState/MS
have/are going to over come it if my info is correct.

Scott


"Roy Katz" <katz at Glue.umd.edu> wrote in message
news:Pine.GSO.4.21.0101151106200.7702-100000 at z.glue.umd.edu...
> Scott,
>
> the problem with Python compilation is optimization;  you can "freeze" a
> python program into an executable even now.  I heard it somewhere that
> compiled Python would consist of nothing more than calls to Python's C
> API.  Granted, that shaves off the interpreter layer, but you're still
> going through the P-API.  I suspect it is the same way in JPython
> (given that JPython implements the Python API in Java, am I right? (?))..
>
>
>
> /R
>
>
>
> On Mon, 15 Jan 2001, scotth wrote:
>
> > Hello,
> >
> > Since the new .NET platform from MS will take all the compatible .NET
> > languages and transform them to an IL (intermediate language ???), then
take
> > the IL to native compiled code, this means that python will be compiled,
but
> > only for the Windows platform.
> >
> > Is what I have said correct, or have I missed something?  This would
give
> > python a huge boost!
> >
> > Scott
> >
> >
> >
>




From victor at prodigy.net  Fri Jan  5 22:19:41 2001
From: victor at prodigy.net (Victor Muslin)
Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2001 03:19:41 GMT
Subject: Iterating over multiple lists (a newbie question)
References: <3a539f3a.445366109@localhost> <3a54d0c5.523585234@localhost> <sT856.231717$U46.7096316@news1.sttls1.wa.home.com>
Message-ID: <3a5566c9.135365705@newnews.prodigy.net>

Thanks, but I must have not been very clear. The fact that my example was
parsing command line arguments is incidental. The point was that it is nice to
have a clean iteration over a list as in:

	for item in list:

but this nice paradigm breaks down when you have to move the iterator along the
list inside a loop under certain conditions. Then you are into the ugliness of
iteration via indexes.  If there were another method associated with a list
object to move the iterator it would have been very useful.

On Fri, 05 Jan 2001 00:50:32 GMT, "Greg Jorgensen" <gregj at pobox.com> wrote:

>Here's a somewhat generalized parser for simple argument/parameter strings
>like command lines. You'll probably want to make it into a function or a
>class for real-world use.
>
>--
>Greg Jorgensen
>PDXperts
>Portland, Oregon, USA
>gregj at pobox.com
>
>
>
># command line or other string to parse
>commandline = '-log -port 25 -file -debug -bogus dummy'
>
># args is keyed by the valid argument names
># args[arg] = 1 if -arg expects a parameter, else args[arg] = 0
>args = { 'debug':0, 'port':1, 'file':1, 'log':0 }
>
># argp will contain the parsed argument list
># add any default values to argp here
>argp = {'log':0, 'port':20}
>
>errmsg = ''
>paramkey = ''
>for a in commandline.split():
>    if a[0] == '-':                 # -argument
>        a = a[1:].lower()
>        p = args.get(a, -1)         # get parameter flag, default to 0
>        paramkey = ''
>        if p == 1:                  # next parameter will be associated with
>args[a]
>            paramkey = a
>        elif p == 0:                # no parameter expected
>            argp[a] = ''
>        else:
>            errmsg += 'unexpected argument: -%s\n' % a
>    else:                           # parameter found...
>        if paramkey:                # which argument does it belong to?
>            argp[paramkey] = a
>            paramkey = ''
>        else:
>            errmsg += 'unexpected value: %s\n' % a
>
># let's see the result
>if errmsg:
>    print 'errors:\n' + errmsg
>
>print 'parsed arguments:'
>for e in argp.keys():
>    if argp[e]:
>        print '-%s %s' % (e, argp[e]),
>    else:
>        print '-%s' % e,
>
>print '\n'
>
>



From huwdotlynes at ic.ac.uk  Wed Jan 24 09:56:21 2001
From: huwdotlynes at ic.ac.uk (Huw Lynes)
Date: 24 Jan 2001 14:56:21 GMT
Subject: os.system easy question
References: <slrn96qrgp.gg.huwdotlynes@Marvin.ic.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <slrn96tv02.7j.huwdotlynes@Marvin.ic.ac.uk>

Thanks guys,

I think I can get what I need done now.

Thanks again,
Huw


From jpet at eskimo.com  Sun Jan 28 21:37:42 2001
From: jpet at eskimo.com (Jeff Petkau)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 02:37:42 GMT
Subject: . Python 2.1 function attributes
References: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0101271158190.3501-100000@y.glue.umd.edu><Pine.GSO.4.21.0101270135190.7677-100000@y.glue.umd.edu><mailman.980593892.725.python-list@python.org><$5A+ZwAGjtc6EwE0@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk><14962.62953.304511.523826@anthem.wooz.org><mailman.980613639.23439.python-list@python.org><mailman.980617472.28020.python-list@python.org><Pine.GSO.4.21.0101271303540.3501-100000@y.glue.umd.edu><3A7333F5.DA1E367B@mail.com> <mailman.980662113.14859.python-list@python.org> <FFSc6.2506$iG3.539254@dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net>
Message-ID: <WH4d6.4163$iG3.903646@dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net>

Jeff Petkau <jpet at eskimo.com> wrote in message
news:FFSc6.2506$iG3.539254 at dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net...
> Barry A. Warsaw <barry at digicool.com> wrote in message
> news:mailman.980662113.14859.python-list at python.org...
> >
> >     JD> Perhaps if "print >> file, something" were written as "print
> >     JD> to file, something" there wouldn't be so much controversy over
> >     JD> it, even though it wouldn't be doing more or less than it does
> >     JD> today.
> >
> > We tried it.  Using an identifier in that spot caused irreconcilable
> > syntactic ambiguities, so we had to pick a non-identifier.  After
> > extensive market research <wink> `>>' was picked because it had the
>
> The following seems to work fine for 'print to', even if you insist
> on naming your variables 'to'.
>
> In Grammar/Grammar
>     print_stmt: 'print' test [test] [',' test]+ [',']
>
> In compile.c:
>     <some stuff>

Sorry, the evil genie of 1:30am postings got hold of my message.
That should have been,

print_stmt: 'print' [ test [test] [ ( ',' test)* [ ',' ] ] ]

--Jeff





From gustafl at algonet.se  Mon Jan 22 15:15:47 2001
From: gustafl at algonet.se (Gustaf Liljegren)
Date: 22 Jan 2001 20:15:47 GMT
Subject: Modifying .htpasswd from Python?
References: <90312091gustaflalgonetse@194.213.69.148> <3A6BCCEC.EA8CE857@stroeder.com> <90316137Fgustaflalgonetse@194.213.69.148> <heXa6.47831$LZ5.441426@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <9031D9546gustaflalgonetse@194.213.69.152>

sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden) wrote:

>Another poster has already told you why you don't find it: it must be
>configured in, which doesn't happen by default.

What is the reason to leave out some modules? At least you won't save 
processing time, since modules has to be imported anyway using the import 
statement.

>Note also that you should not expect to find crypt on Windows systems
>since it relies on the Unix crypt() library routine.

I'll use this in a CGI script in UNIX. The server is on a web hotel, so I 
guess there is no possibility other than asking the Python administrator to 
recompile it with this module included, right? Or can I put only crypt in 
my own directory?

Gustaf


From gregj at pobox.com  Fri Jan  5 14:36:58 2001
From: gregj at pobox.com (Greg Jorgensen)
Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 19:36:58 GMT
Subject: Unexpected result for list operator "+="
References: <3A542778.E1BC06E3@bogusaddress.com> <mfW46.227356$U46.7026522@news1.sttls1.wa.home.com> <zv756.231593$U46.7089647@news1.sttls1.wa.home.com> <rnf56.3809$Qb7.492757@newsb.telia.net> <93435m022if@news2.newsguy.com> <M0i56.3822$Qb7.495388@newsb.telia.net>
Message-ID: <unp56.233773$U46.7202301@news1.sttls1.wa.home.com>

This thread really peels the onion, from the simplified explanations down to
the underlying principles and implementation. Understanding the subtleties
(or at least knowing where they are) will save me from frustration someday.
Thanks!

--
Greg Jorgensen
PDXperts
Portland, Oregon, USA
gregj at pobox.com




From chris.gonnerman at usa.net  Fri Jan 26 08:47:00 2001
From: chris.gonnerman at usa.net (Chris Gonnerman)
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 07:47:00 -0600
Subject: defining class
References: <LPENKAFBJDPOFHMCEBOMIEFJCDAA.aleksei.guzev@bigfoot.com>
Message-ID: <004a01c0879e$79da3520$a100000a@local>

----- Original Message -----
From: "Aleksei Guzev" <aleksei.guzev at bigfoot.com>
> I'm sure I don't understand something since I can't find an article
> on creating a class object from a C or C++ module.

That's because it isn't easy, AFAIK.  Check out the Boost Python Library at
http://www.boost.org/libs/python/doc/index.html; on the page on writing
extensions they say:

> Another obstacle that most people run into eventually when extending
Python is that there's no
> way to make a true Python class in an extension module.

Further down you are referred to a page about Python's metaclass feature.
There they actually explain how you can do what you want to do.  For
reference, the URL of that page is:

http://www.python.org/doc/essays/metaclasses/

It about burned out my brain though.





From Bill.Scherer at VerizonWireless.com  Wed Jan  3 09:20:24 2001
From: Bill.Scherer at VerizonWireless.com (Bill Scherer)
Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 09:20:24 -0500
Subject: UML-tool
References: <3A5311F8.52984B6E@zeitspringer.de>
Message-ID: <3A533528.92CFE30D@VerizonWireless.com>

Sven - 

OD is the only UML tool I know of the explicitly supports Python.  You
can probably get a third party to write a plugin for Rational Rose to
support Python, but that'll cost you plenty.

It is possible to get OD to run well, and once you've done that, it's a
mostly satisfying experience.  

Problem is, what you need to run it well may not be immediatly available
to you...

I get good performance running OD on a quad 400Mhz Xeon box with 1 GB
RAM and RedHat 6.1, using IBM's 1.1.8.  I haven't tried it yet with
their IBM's latest JVM on this box.  I did run OD under IBM's current
JVM on a 300Mhz  box with 96 MB ram, and it was far better than I had
seen with other JVM's on the same box (also RH6.1).

Alas, it's also fatser on NT, given equivalent hardware.  There used to
be a problem with OD on NT on a multiprocessor box; I'm not sure whether
or not that's been resolved...

I've also used Dia for UML diagramming.  It offers no language support
of any kind, but you can generate most common UML diagrams with it.  You
can also get funky with it and mix diagram types together...

Good luck!

Sven Hohage wrote:
> 
> Hello,
> I'm asking myself if there are any UML-tools for Python.
> I've used ObjectDomain which was very unsatisfying(horrible JAVA).
> Are there any other tools??
>  Thanks.
> 
> --
> http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

-- 
William K. Scherer
Sr. Member of Applications Staff - Verizon Wireless
Bill.Scherer_at_VerizonWireless.com



From p.g at figu.no  Mon Jan 29 05:30:35 2001
From: p.g at figu.no (Per Gummedal)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 11:30:35 +0100
Subject: Python and Industry, IBM I'm afraid
In-Reply-To: <3A729E57.6CE19B86@katamail.com>
References: <20010111172342.10148.00000934@ng-ca1.aol.com>
 <HnO86.78962$_G5.11779533@typhoon.nyroc.rr.com>
 <3A63D9E8.F9B74ACE@mjs400.co.uk>
 <mailman.979825467.28077.python-list@python.org>
 <3A729E57.6CE19B86@katamail.com>
Message-ID: <29869373883.20010129113035@figu.no>

27.01.2001, 11:09, Stefano wrote:

>> I'm currently trying to do a port to AS/400.
>> I have it up running with a limited set of modules, but it's not
>> ready yet.

> It's very interesting!!
> Version # ?

Python 2.0 compiled to V4R3 or higher.

> P.S. Are You an IBM's internal?

No, I'm an AS/400 consultant.

If you would like to test a beta version look at this web page.
http://home.no.net/pgummeda


Per





From sholden at holdenweb.com  Wed Jan 10 21:20:20 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 21:20:20 -0500
Subject: new enum idiom
References: <G6qzLy.6Fo@world.std.com> <938jmh$919$1@animus.fel.iae.nl> <3A58B9C0.9F2A5CC0@collins.rockwell.com> <93an8v02d2n@news1.newsguy.com> <93dde1$8d2$1@animus.fel.iae.nl> <93f3nb023mv@news1.newsguy.com> <90259DC4Arcamesz@127.0.0.1> <93i57b01qms@news2.newsguy.com> <fC576.21284$ge4.9901878@news2.rdc2.tx.home.com>
Message-ID: <8N876.2727$24.36420@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com>

"Rainer Deyke" <root at rainerdeyke.com> wrote in message
news:fC576.21284$ge4.9901878 at news2.rdc2.tx.home.com...
> "Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:93i57b01qms at news2.newsguy.com...
[ etc ]
> > Fine, but can't be "*much* easier" -- it's just one .split away from
> > the 'bar=32' proposal to ('bar','32'), after all:-).
>
> The problem with 'bar=32' is that it cannot be interleaved with unnumbered
> args:
>
> >>> enum('foo', bar=32, 'fee')
> SyntaxError: non-keyword arg after keyword arg
>
> Even if it could, there would be no way to determine the order of the
> arguments and therefore no way to find out that 'fee' should have a value
of
> 33.
>
This seems a little obtuse. What would be wrong with

    enum('foo', 'bar=32', 'fee')

regards
 Steve




From gregj at pobox.com  Sun Jan 21 13:31:33 2001
From: gregj at pobox.com (Greg Jorgensen)
Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 18:31:33 GMT
Subject: How to write to tempfile, remove whitespace, and copy to source ..?
References: <t6m772ggf7gj8a@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <94f9u5$r78$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

tempfile.TemporaryFile() creates a new temporary file and opens it for
you; the value you get back is a file object ready for writing, so you
don't need to open it. But since you need the temporary file name so
you can rename it, you need to use the mktemp() method instead:

----
import glob, fileinput, os, tempfile, string

files = glob.glob(r'e:\text\*.txt')
for filename in files:
    tempname = tempfile.mktemp()
    temp = open(tempname, 'w')
    for s in fileinput.input(filename):
        temp.write(string.strip(string.join(string.split(s))))
    temp.close()
    os.remove(filename)
    os.rename(tempname, filename)
---

I would add exception handling before deploying; there are several
places where file operations can fail.

--
Greg Jorgensen
Portland, Oregon, USA
gregj at pobox.com



In article <t6m772ggf7gj8a at corp.supernews.com>,
  "Randolph MacKenzie" <rmack at eznet.net> wrote:
> I want a module that will remove the extra whitespace from all text
files in
> a target directory. I want to use the tempfile command (on a
Windoze2000
> box). I guess I'm having trouble opening the tempfile and appending
to it...
> and then, after processing it, I need to copy (overwrite) it to
source file.
>
> Any suggestions ?
>
> # X2space.py removes all extra whitespace from textfiles
>
> target = "E:\\text\\"
> import glob, fileinput, os, shutil, string, tempfile
> filelist = glob.glob(target+"*.TXT")
>
> for fl in filelist:
>  L3 =[];
>  tmp = tempfile.TemporaryFile('a')
>  #tmpfile = open(tmpflname,'a')
>  for line in fileinput.input(fl):
>   tmp.write(string.strip(string.join(string.split(line))))
>  tmp.close()
>  shutil.copyfile(tmp,fl)
>


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From cerutti at together.net  Fri Jan 26 16:44:13 2001
From: cerutti at together.net (Neil Cerutti)
Date: 26 Jan 2001 21:44:13 GMT
Subject: SourceForge problems
References: <mailman.980510689.2616.python-list@python.org> <lmlc6.774$27.199390@ruti.visi.com> <mailman.980545112.10091.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrn973sam.7n.cerutti@fiad06.norwich.edu>

Thomas Wouters posted:
>On Fri, Jan 26, 2001 at 08:46:09PM +0000, Grant Edwards wrote:
>
>> >don't-even-try-discussing-hot-steaming-faggots<wink>-ly y'rs - tim
>
>> You're probably not talking about cigarettes or firewood, so
>> I'm guessing it's some sort of sausage. But English food is
>> best left undiscussed if not uneaten.  ;)
>
>As opposed to the wonderful american inventions of, uuhmm... the
>hotdog ? 

A hotdog is one thing, but to then put chili on the hotdog...
  -- Brain Guy

-- 
Neil Cerutti <cerutti at together.net>


From crutoy at aol.com  Wed Jan 10 18:48:30 2001
From: crutoy at aol.com (Crutoy)
Date: 10 Jan 2001 23:48:30 GMT
Subject: is Python fully object oriented ?
Message-ID: <20010110184830.13286.00000826@ng-fg1.aol.com>

Hi , i haven't used Python but i do have experience in other languages vb ,
java , c++ . Is Python a fully object oriented ? Thanks


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Mon Jan 29 11:44:16 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 17:44:16 +0100
Subject: . Python 2.1 function attributes
References: <mailman.980717974.17843.python-list@python.org> <3A7595D9.E9F080CE@bioreason.com>
Message-ID: <9546l301a4i@news2.newsguy.com>

"Mitch Chapman" <chapman at bioreason.com> wrote in message
news:3A7595D9.E9F080CE at bioreason.com...
    [snip]
> > > -- at least once tried writing 'print>file' for the latter purpose
> >
> > [...]That is, it isn't so clear *where* he got confused.
>
> It might be clearer if we could assume he's spent time with
> (Unix?) command shells.  ">" overwrites files, ">>" appends.

He used Unix, and later Linux, as a small child -- back then,
it was the Martelli Family's OS (I got Interactive's System V
implementation as soon as I could afford an 80386 -- before
that, Coherent -- and, as soon as it was usable, Linux 0.9?).

[He never really liked vi much -- with ups and downs, but he
tended to prefer non-modal editors even then; his motivation
towards vi was that he saw it as a "Big Man's Editor", since
it was what Dad used, while his mother and sister were Pico
users -- at times, when he managed to "let his fingers to the
thinking", he was a pretty effective vi-er, actually -- but
he kept reverting to 'reasoning' about it, and tripping up].

But that was many years ago -- in recent years, both at home
and at school, I think he saw nothing but DOS and DOS-alikes.

However, those, also, implement >, >>, and < in their command
shells.


Alex





From kuncej at mail.conservation.state.mo.us  Wed Jan 17 16:45:00 2001
From: kuncej at mail.conservation.state.mo.us (Jeff Kunce)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 15:45:00 -0600
Subject: cross platform file lock
References: <943qij$had$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <Ono96.206$L75.303@news.more.net>

> But after browsing Python Library reference,
> Python FAQ, and comp.lang.python, I have not been
> able to determine if there is a cross platform
> file locking mechanism available for Python.

I have a module that implements [most of] the
posixfile file-locking protocol on NT. This lets
you run nearly the same code on unix or NT.

See:
    ntposixfile.py
at:
    http://starship.python.net/crew/jjkunce/

  --Jeff




From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Jan 16 01:27:21 2001
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 01:27:21 -0500
Subject: python -O -u vs. -Ou
References: <3A6343FF.174BB2B7@schlund.de>
Message-ID: <3A63E9C9.EF238084@engcorp.com>

Carsten Gaebler wrote:
> 
> There seems to be a difference between
> 
> #! /usr/bin/python -O -u
> 
> and
> 
> #! /usr/bin/python -Ou
> 
> Can anyone explain this to me?

I think "ou" is the British spelling, while "o" is
the American form.

(Sorry, lousy English language joke.  I'm leaving....)

(Words like "humor" and "vapor" are spelled 
"humour" and "vapour" in British and Canadian forms,
for anyone not well versed in this particular wart
of the English language.  Okay, I'm leaving again.)


From jcm at bigskytel.com  Sat Jan 27 09:33:04 2001
From: jcm at bigskytel.com (David Porter)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 07:33:04 -0700
Subject: Problems with Install
In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.0.20010127045146.00a42dc0@thewebsons.com>; from zope@thewebsons.com on Sat, Jan 27, 2001 at 05:16:20AM -0800
References: <5.0.0.25.0.20010126083542.009e3290@mail.earthlink.net> <5.0.0.25.0.20010126083542.009e3290@mail.earthlink.net> <20010126133015.B7309@harmony.cs.rit.edu> <5.0.0.25.0.20010127045146.00a42dc0@thewebsons.com>
Message-ID: <20010127073304.A6783@bigskytel.com>

* Ben Ocean <zope at thewebsons.com>:

[...]
> I've run into this error while running *make*. D said it was due to an
> error in the myreadline.o So I re-ran make and copied what printed to
> screen. The myreadline.o stuff doesn't appear until the last few lines:
> 
> In file included from /usr/include/errno.h:36,
>                   from ../Include/Python.h:59,
>                   from myreadline.c:42:
> /usr/include/bits/errno.h:25: linux/errno.h: No such file or directory
> make[1]: *** [myreadline.o] Error 1
> make[1]: Leaving directory `/apache/vhosts/Python-1.5.2/Parser'
> make: *** [Parser] Error 2

I have encountered this type of error (No such file or directory).

First check if /usr/include/linux/errno.h exists. If it doesn't, maybe you
need to install the Linux kernel headers. Perhaps something like
kernel-headers*.rpm?

if it *does* exist, you could try editing line 25 /usr/include/bits/errno.h
changing it from

# include linux/errno.h

to 

# include <linux/errno.h>

> Just for fun I tried installing an rpm as you mentioned. The strangest 
> thing happened. When I got to the actual installation command, the darn 
> thing just vanished into thin air! running a whereis for python turns up 
> *nothing*! Oh, geez, what'd I do wrong?

Maybe it installed python in a place that is off your path.


David

-- 
Import os.  Import os Import os Import os! 



From akuchlin at mems-exchange.org  Tue Jan  9 10:53:12 2001
From: akuchlin at mems-exchange.org (Andrew Kuchling)
Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2001 10:53:12 -0500
Subject: Stopping work on PEP 222
Message-ID: <E14G15E-0001dV-00@kronos.cnri.reston.va.us>

The most recent release schedule for Python 2.1 calls for an alpha
release on 19 Jan.  That's only 10 days away, which isn't much time.
Given that there's been so little response to PEP 222, the design
specified in the PEP can't be considered complete or a consensus, and
it doesn't seem possible to discuss the PEP and implement it in that
time frame.

Therefore, I'm taking PEP 222 off the table for Python 2.1.  It may be
revived for Python 2.2, or I may simply implement the design in
Quixote and leave it there.

--amk




From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sat Jan  6 14:20:37 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2001 20:20:37 +0100
Subject: Iterating over multiple lists (a newbie question)
References: <3a539f3a.445366109@localhost> <3a54d0c5.523585234@localhost> <sT856.231717$U46.7096316@news1.sttls1.wa.home.com> <3a5566c9.135365705@newnews.prodigy.net> <QkD56.235798$U46.7334091@news1.sttls1.wa.home.com>
Message-ID: <937rgo01rvo@news1.newsguy.com>

"Greg Jorgensen" <gregj at pobox.com> wrote in message
news:QkD56.235798$U46.7334091 at news1.sttls1.wa.home.com...
    [snip]
> Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but Python only looks like it has list
> iterators. Based on my understanding of the methods supported by sequence
> types, the statement
>
>     for item in list:
>         ...
>
> is equivalent to
>
>     for i in range(len(list)):
>         item = list[i]
>         ...

Almost, not quite.  It's closer to:
    i = 0
    while 1:
        try:
            item = list[i]
        except IndexError:
            break
        i += 1
        # the rest goes here

I.e., the sequence being iterated upon with for does not have to
define a 'length': rather, it lets the iteration know that it's done
by raising an IndexError exception.

This is somewhat meaningful, in that it lets you implement a
sequence 'lazily' pretty easily: you don't have to know in advance
how many items you'll have -- just to be able to fetch them in
order, 0-th upwards, and know when you have no more to give
(then raise IndexError).

E.g.:

>>> class Numbers:
...   def __getitem__(self, i):
...     return i
...
>>> for x in Numbers():
...     print x,
...     if x>10: break
...
0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11
>>>

A 'for' iterating over an instance of Numbers had better have its
own terminating-break, of course -- "for x in Numbers():" works
much like a "while 1:" that knows which time around this is.

The sequence-iteration protocol is also used by the zip builtin
function, which terminates with the _shortest_ sequence it's
given:

>>> a=zip("ciao",Numbers())
>>> a
[('c', 0), ('i', 1), ('a', 2), ('o', 3)]
>>>

and THIS can be somewhat handy -- e.g., you can do:

    for index, item in zip(Numbers(), sequence):
        # whatever

rather than:

    for index, item in zip(range(len(sequence)), sequence):
        # whatever

and the former is a simpler form (though not as bright and
beautiful as Tim's proposed "for index indexing item in sequence"!).

The map builtin function, OTOH, does need to know the length of
each sequence in advance (and the _longest_ one controls, with
the others being 'extended' with as many 'None' as needed), so,
no such techniques (tricks?-) are available in that case.


Alex





From yoonseo at my-deja.com  Fri Jan 19 15:01:03 2001
From: yoonseo at my-deja.com (yoonseo at my-deja.com)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 20:01:03 GMT
Subject: [Q] telnetlib
Message-ID: <94a6dp$118$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

Hi,

I am trying to run commands on a remote computer using Python.
I think that using 'telnetlib' is the way to go, but I have trouble.
The following is the script that I wrote but it stops before
it reaches prompt, that is after 'TERM = (vt100) '.
Can somebody tell me what is wrong?

Thanks in advance

sy


--------------------------------------
import telnetlib

HOST = 'host_name'
user = 'user_name'
pwd  = 'my_password'

tn = telnetlib.Telnet(HOST)

print tn.read_until('login: ')
tn.write(user+'\n')

print tn.read_until('Password:')
tn.write(pwd+'\n')

print tn.read_until('TERM = (vt100) ')
tn.write('\n')

print tn.read_until('% ')
tn.write('ls\n')

print tn.read_until('% ')
tn.write('exit\n')

print tn.read_all()
--------------------------------------


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http://www.deja.com/


From fredrik at effbot.org  Fri Jan 12 03:17:35 2001
From: fredrik at effbot.org (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 08:17:35 GMT
Subject: new enum idiom
References: <G6qzLy.6Fo@world.std.com> <938jmh$919$1@animus.fel.iae.nl> <3A58B9C0.9F2A5CC0@collins.rockwell.com> <93an8v02d2n@news1.newsguy.com> <93dde1$8d2$1@animus.fel.iae.nl> <93f3nb023mv@news1.newsguy.com> <90259DC4Arcamesz@127.0.0.1> <93i57b01qms@news2.newsguy.com> <90268BCE3rcamesz@127.0.0.1> <93kb0m0r3s@news1.newsguy.com> <90273B4rcamesz@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <z4z76.5651$Qb7.787726@newsb.telia.net>

Robert Amesz wrote:
> Hmm I see a problem here: doesn't the %-operator take a tuple on the
> right hand side, or has that changed in 2.0?

no, and no.

    http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/typesseq-strings.html

    "The right argument should be a tuple with one item
    for each argument required by the format string; if the
    string requires a single argument, the right argument
    may also be a single non-tuple object"

Cheers /F




From aahz at panix.com  Wed Jan 24 13:13:22 2001
From: aahz at panix.com (Aahz Maruch)
Date: 24 Jan 2001 10:13:22 -0800
Subject: PSU uses emacs?
References: <948e4b$hm0$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <3a6eb2fa.2347467@reading.news.pipex.net> <94mtc702d2h@news2.newsguy.com> <3a6f1114.10352226@reading.news.pipex.net>
Message-ID: <94n602$iv6$1@panix6.panix.com>

In article <3a6f1114.10352226 at reading.news.pipex.net>,
Ray Drew <ray_drew at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
>Is there a good book on vi?

Try my web site.  Won't help you much with vim, though.
-- 
                      --- Aahz (Copyright 2001 by aahz at pobox.com)

Androgynous poly kinky vanilla queer het    <*>     http://www.rahul.net/aahz/
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6

'I'm not in the mood to say "yes" today.' --SJM


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Thu Jan  4 11:26:09 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 17:26:09 +0100
Subject: Exiting a program from within an object method.
References: <9325ne014j@news2.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <93288o04m9@news2.newsguy.com>

"Benjamin Scherrey" <scherrey at innoverse.com> wrote in message
news:9325ne014j at news2.newsguy.com...
>         I've written a small python program that instantiates an object
which
> inherits from SocketServer.BaseRequestHandler. The __main__ function
starts
> this thing up with the serve_forever() method. Inside the handle() method
> of my object I check for a command to shutdown and, if received, call
> sys.exit(0). All this does is generate a SystemExit exception and does not
> terminate my program. Even if I wrap the call to serve_forever() with a
> try: except: block, the exception is not caught. I presume because the
> object's handle() method is possibly being executed in a child thread and
> python must not support cross thread exception handling (I'm not
> instantiating any threads explicitly, I'm assuming that the
> BaseRequestHandler is doing this internally)?

I think it's simpler than that -- your handle method is being called
by the TCPServer's process_request method, which, in turn, is in a
try/except that catches ALL exceptions:

           try:
                self.process_request(request, client_address)
            except:
                self.handle_error(request, client_address)

and, by default, handle_error prints a traceback but does not
terminate.

>         What's a simple way to have my object exit the application
cleanly?

I suspect the simplest way is: inherit from TCPServer and override
the handle_error method, so that (e.g.) a SystemExit, only, will
be re-raised.  I am, however, not sure about how this may interact
with possible threading, and I DO know a request executed in
another process won't be able to communicate this way...!  So, IF
you're using a Forking or Threading server, you may need to use
another 'termination-indicator', which your handle() method can
set (e.g., create a file with a distinguished and pre-agreed
name!), and you will also override serve_forever to to periodic
checks on that termination-indicator.

But there's no need for this extra complexity if you're not
forking (or, possibly, threading).


Alex






From lele at seldati.it  Mon Jan  8 20:27:41 2001
From: lele at seldati.it (Lele Gaifax)
Date: 09 Jan 2001 02:27:41 +0100
Subject: Web devel with python. Whats the best route?
In-Reply-To: D-Man's message of "Mon, 8 Jan 2001 14:33:43 -0500"
References: <mailman.978910629.6814.python-list@python.org>
	<93cqvi0191h@news1.newsguy.com>
	<mailman.978985688.26505.python-list@python.org>
	<93dfft077p@news1.newsguy.com>
	<mailman.979000510.4052.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m3puhxecqa.fsf@paci.nautilus>

>>>>> On Mon, 8 Jan 2001 14:33:43 -0500, D-Man <dsh8290 at rit.edu> said:

    D> On Mon, Jan 08, 2001 at 11:30:26PM +0100, Alex Martelli wrote:
    D> | "Lele Gaifax" <lele at seldati.it> wrote in message | | > PS:
    D> Alex, un ciao particolare! Ti ricordi di me? Sublink... :) | |
    D> E vorrei vedere, che ci si potesse scordare della gloriosa
    D> sublink.org e | di tutti i suoi protagonisti...!-) Ciao Lele!
    D> |

    D> You do realize that it's impolite to "whisper" in public?  Now
    D> I'm curious to know what you are talking about.  But maybe it's
    D> my own fault for being "deaf" <wink>.

Sorry, my fault: I was only saying "hello" to a good&old friend. I
thought it was clear... after all, "ciao" *is* international, isn't 
it ?-)
Roughly: `Hi, do you remember me?' - `Yes, of course'.

bye, lele.
-- 
nickname: Lele Gaifax	| Quando vivro' di quello che ho pensato ieri
real: Emanuele Gaifas	| comincero' ad aver paura di chi mi copia.
email: lele at seldati.it	|		-- Fortunato Depero, 1929.




From hamish_lawson at yahoo.co.uk  Tue Jan 23 08:14:57 2001
From: hamish_lawson at yahoo.co.uk (Hamish Lawson)
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 13:14:57 GMT
Subject: urllib.urlretrieve("http://free.bsdshell.net/")
References: <mailman.980245885.26132.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <94k04c$mp0$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

Oleg Broytmann:

> Strange problem with urllib: urlretrieve("http://free.bsdshell.net/")
> always reports "Connection refused". Always:

I'm afraid I don't have any suggestion why it didn't work for you -
unless the web server doesn't like something about your combination of
user agent ("Python-urllib/1.13" for me), IP address, etc - but it
worked for me using Python 2.0 on Windows.

Hamish Lawson


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From nielsenjf at my-deja.com  Wed Jan 24 08:08:39 2001
From: nielsenjf at my-deja.com (John Nielsen)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 13:08:39 GMT
Subject: unpack sequence to tuple?
References: <94j6j1$3na$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <mailman.980234666.18231.python-list@python.org> <94jjtb0108j@news1.newsguy.com> <94kf4n$58u$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <94krq40bh6@news2.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <94mk4k$vhh$1@nnrp1.deja.com>


> Clarity, I guess, is in the eye of the beholder; even if I
> did decide to split this simple function into three statements,
> they'd likely be:
>
> def padSequence(seq, length):
>     temp = list(seq)
>     temp += [None]*length
>     return temp[:length]
>
> at least the [None]*length is clearly simply than starting
> from the (None,)*length tuple then casting it to a list (not
> that you NEED the cast, if .extend is what you want to
> use -- .extend can be called with any sequence).

In python 2.0 yes, in 1.5.2 no :-(

Is there any reason for extend versus +=?

It's odd python 2.0 has what seems like really subtle changes at first.
But, when you start using those changes, you begin to see how they
really help. It's kinda like dictionaries. It's easy to get people to
understand what they mean, but they don't see the utility of it until
they actually use it.


> def padSequence(seq, length):
>     if len(seq)>=length: return seq[:length]
>     return list(seq)+[None]*(length-len(seq))
>
> This is probably the first thing that will come to mind
> to a newbie, after all, and thus might be simplest for
> said newbie to understand.


As usual, you have great taste. That's even clearer.

The first example, though perfectly fine, reminded me of perl. (i.e. I
thought hmm if I showed this to one of my colleagues just picking up
python, would they be able to make sense of it -- tend to have to think
that a lot w/perl).


john


--
nielsenjf at my-Deja.com


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From gregj at pobox.com  Thu Jan 25 14:18:46 2001
From: gregj at pobox.com (Greg Jorgensen)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 19:18:46 GMT
Subject: Count and replacing strings a texfile
References: <94i9ft$apq$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <94llph$8dl$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <94mans01r5p@news2.newsguy.com> <94nc43$n0g$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <94p56k022uc@news2.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <94pu6b$use$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

In article <94p56k022uc at news2.newsguy.com>,
  "Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote:
> ...
> It's a good maxim, but collecting the pieces in a list
> and joining them up at the end is no harder than joining
> them up as you go...

You are right. Here's my original code with your simple change and a
typo corrected:

===
# read all text from the file
f = open(filename, "r")
s = f.read()
f.close()

# split text into a list at every occurence of %id%
t = s.split("%id%")
n = len(t)       # number of list elements
r = [t[0]]       # start with first element in list
# iterate over list, inserting counter between elements
for i in range(1,n):
        r.append(str(i) + t[i])

result = ''.join(r)
print "%s occurences replaced" % (n-1)
print result
===

--
Greg Jorgensen
Portland, Oregon, USA
gregj at pobox.com


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From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Sat Jan 27 11:37:47 2001
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 16:37:47 +0000
Subject: . Python 2.1 function attributes
In-Reply-To: <14962.62953.304511.523826@anthem.wooz.org>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0101270135190.7677-100000@y.glue.umd.edu>
 <mailman.980593892.725.python-list@python.org>
 <$5A+ZwAGjtc6EwE0@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
 <14962.62953.304511.523826@anthem.wooz.org>
Message-ID: <3rHctJAblvc6Ewku@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>

In message <14962.62953.304511.523826 at anthem.wooz.org>, Barry A. Warsaw
<barry at digicool.com> writes
....
>
>It was a joke.  Tim meant to write "def f() << x" because "the
>function f `gets' the value of x".  The patch also places the return
>value as a function attribute so you really write it like this:
>
>def f() << x:
>    x = 1
>    y = 2
>
>print f.x
>
>That both calls f and returns the x attribute value.  Add in
>__setattr__ semantics and arguments as list comprehensions, and you
>get the power and clarity of:
>
>>>> def f(x * [x-1 for x > 1]) << x: pass
>...
>>>> print f.x = 5
>120
>
>What could be more natural than that? <wink, wink, nudge, nudge>
....
aaarrggghhhh the Inquisition auto da fe with << and >>
-- 
Robin Becker



From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Thu Jan 11 08:35:20 2001
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 13:35:20 +0000
Subject: BUG Python 2.0 FreeBSD compile problem
Message-ID: <HvMQc3AYabX6Ewau@jessikat.demon.co.uk>

When building Python 2.0 with FreeBSD xxx.com 2.2.7-STABLE FreeBSD 2.2.7-STABLE
I get undefined references to _TELL64 at load time unless I change line 61 of
Objects/fileobject.c from

#elif defined(__NetBSD__) || defined(__OpenBSD__)

to

#elif defined(__NetBSD__) || defined(__OpenBSD__) || defined(__FreeBSD__)
-- 
Robin Becker


From db3l at fitlinxx.com  Mon Jan 22 16:06:29 2001
From: db3l at fitlinxx.com (David Bolen)
Date: 22 Jan 2001 16:06:29 -0500
Subject: [XML-SIG] Re: Using Installer with PyXML
References: <02c401c08311$a66e8f00$11260340@yin> <200101202225.f0KMPl200861@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <037201c08338$42ce08a0$11260340@yin> <mailman.980067629.31748.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <uk87n9u0a.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com>

"Martin v. Loewis" <martin at mira.cs.tu-berlin.de> writes:

> > I tested your suggestion of using "from xml.parsers import expat"
> > vs.  "import pyexpat" and that works fine, but I'm not sure what the
> > benefit of using that form is.
> 
> To get independent from the location of the pyexpat module. If you say
> "import pyexpat", and you use PyXML, you still won't get the PyXML
> version of that module - this lives in xml.parsers.pyexpat.

BTW, this resolves the issue I mentioned in the other thread on this
point, since the reference to expat then references pyexpat, which at
run time (in the installer output product) will be found in the root
of the distribution directory as the pyd.  You still get the right
variant (PyXML) of the pyd, since the installer will copy the pyd from
the xml.parsers directory as it determines what is in use.  And no
explicit misc= entry for the pyd file should be necessary in the
installer configuration file.

--
-- David
-- 
/-----------------------------------------------------------------------\
 \               David Bolen            \   E-mail: db3l at fitlinxx.com  /
  |             FitLinxx, Inc.            \  Phone: (203) 708-5192    |
 /  860 Canal Street, Stamford, CT  06902   \  Fax: (203) 316-5150     \
\-----------------------------------------------------------------------/


From moshez at zadka.site.co.il  Mon Jan  8 10:00:24 2001
From: moshez at zadka.site.co.il (Moshe Zadka)
Date: Mon,  8 Jan 2001 17:00:24 +0200 (IST)
Subject: Web devel with python. Whats the best route?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.21.0101071733170.29753-100000@open-systems.net>
References: <Pine.BSF.4.21.0101071733170.29753-100000@open-systems.net>
Message-ID: <20010108150024.307F7A828@darjeeling.zadka.site.co.il>

On Sun, 7 Jan 2001, Chris Watson <chris at voodooland.net> wrote:

> 	I'm about to start converting the small fool proof (ha ha) admin
> system I have been working from console based to web based. What is the
> easiest way to go about integrating python into apache so I can start
> web'izing this app? mod_python, mod_snake, PyApache? 

I'm not giving you any answers, only more questions: Quixote, Zope
PSP, WebWare?

The only thing I'm pretty certain about is that PyApache has been superseded
by mod_apache. Other then that, all have strong points, so you should pick
something you like...
-- 
Moshe Zadka <sig at zadka.site.co.il>
This is a signature anti-virus. 
Please stop the spread of signature viruses!



From tam_dominic at my-deja.com  Mon Jan 15 02:41:59 2001
From: tam_dominic at my-deja.com (tam_dominic at my-deja.com)
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 07:41:59 GMT
Subject: pmz variable in html
Message-ID: <93u9k7$ris$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

Hi,
Cannot get the value out from pmz because I'm new to html & python.
Could somebody tell me why I cannot get the value in the following :
Filename : test.pmz

<html><body>
<pmz>
myvar = 'this test sux'
print '==> ' + myvar
</pmz>
The value of myvar is : <pmzvar>myvar</pmzvar>
</body></html>

After I lunched IE or Netscape, it displayed :

==>this test sux The value of myvar is : Unknown variable myvar
                                                                   ^^^^^

Thank you in advance
Dominic


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From erno-news at erno.iki.fi  Tue Jan 23 06:39:35 2001
From: erno-news at erno.iki.fi (Erno Kuusela)
Date: 23 Jan 2001 13:39:35 +0200
Subject: os.system easy question
References: <slrn96qrgp.gg.huwdotlynes@Marvin.ic.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <kuhf2q8pl4.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>

In article <slrn96qrgp.gg.huwdotlynes at Marvin.ic.ac.uk>,
huwdotlynes at ic.ac.uk (Huw Lynes) writes:

| how to kill the 
| external program after it has run. Or alternatively how to
| run an external program in such a way that the script will
| not halt.

do something like...

import signal, os

class BgProc:
    def __init__(self, cmdline):
        pid = os.fork()
        if pid > 0:
            self.pid = pid
        else:
            try:
                os.execvp('/bin/sh', ['sh', '-c', cmdline])
            finally:
                os._exit(255)

    def wait(self):
        return os.waitpid(self.pid, 0)

    def kill(self, sig = signal.SIGTERM):
        os.kill(self.pid, sig)
        return self.wait()

  -- erno


From peter at engcorp.com  Sun Jan  7 22:21:26 2001
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2001 22:21:26 -0500
Subject: Thank you (was Re: Should I learn Python or Java?)
References: <HEO56.5504$y9.2881293@typhoon.we.rr.com> <G2V56.5826$y9.3184141@typhoon.we.rr.com> <mailman.978901087.32745.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3A593236.6331BE0C@engcorp.com>

D-Man wrote:
> 
> I am currently employed to do Java development.  (I'm a co-op, still
> in college so if anyone knows of a company that does python
> development, let me know)  

As someone who hires programmers, including co-ops, I would
recommend you be careful focusing on companies who demand
experience with specific languages.  Although some companies 
hire people for their language-specific experience, in 
cases of general-purpose programming this is misguided.
(For things like DB work, SQL would of course be one
requirement.)

My company now does a significant amount of Python development,
but I would still not strongly favour a "Python developer"
over a developer with a broad background in a variety of
languages, at different levels and in different application
areas.  The only thing 'Python' would do on a resume is 
slightly increase the time I would spend looking at the 
candidate (out of several hundred resumes I've seen in 
the last six months only one included the word Python.)

Or perhaps you were just expressing a strong desire to 
work for a progressive company that recognizes the benefits
of Python and provides an opportunity for people to work
with it.  I'd try the same thing in your shoes.  Another 
thing I'd do, though, would be to learn Python well 
enough and broadly enough to be able to find novel 
and useful ways to apply it in _any_ company I worked
for.  Given how easy it has been to demonstrate the
advantages of Python over many alternatives, I would
think you could successfully build yourself an opportunity
to program in Python in your next company.

> static type-checking).  Also, Java does some weird things with respect
> to objects vs. built-in types and not having generics.  One of the
> results is that you *can't* put an 'int' in a list/vector/etc.

Python is not without weirdities.  You can't easily subclass
a File 'object', because it's essentially a built-in type.
I don't think I know of any language without warts, and
I think there's a theory (from Hofstadter? (sp?)) that
says you can't have a theory that is both consistent and
complete (so maybe you can't have a programming language
that is practical but without warts...)

> As for portability, Python is much more portable than Java is.  It is
> also much older (and stabler, and faster, etc) than Java so I don't
> think it will displace Java soon (unless someone can convice a big
> name company to spend lots of money promoting it ;-)).

Although "much older" applies, "much stabler", "much faster",
and "much more portable" are, in my opinion and experience, 
definitely not true.  Both Python and Java have very high 
stability and acceptable performance given today's hardware,
and either are so much more portable than many other 
languages that they are in a class alone (together :).
Compared to many languages Java deserves respect.


From sholden at holdenweb.com  Tue Jan  9 16:20:04 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 16:20:04 -0500
Subject: escape sequences and string comparisons
References: <93cboe$ctj$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <93elo7$aoh$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <FhL66.2418$24.22408@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com>

<jkndeja at my-deja.com> wrote in message news:93elo7$aoh$1 at nnrp1.deja.com...
> OK, my question is being purified ;-) into the following:
>
> [Quotes Python behavior]
>
> [Quotes K&R C Book]
>
> [Quotes Harbison and Steele]
>
> My question - is there a good reason that Python has moved from this
> 'traditional' effect, which seems to me to be a useful one, for
> instance in the context of my original question? Would this behaviour
> have broken something else? Shall I raise a PEP? ;-)
>
There is indeed, as the fine manual goes on to explain shortly after the
section you quote: if you make a mistake in an escape sequence, it's much
easier to spot this if the backslash isn't just silently ignored as it will
be in ANSI C.

There are two accepted ways to put backslashes in your strings.  The first
is to use the escape sequence "\\" to represente each backslash you want.
The second is to use "raw" strings, which are standard strings preceded by
an r or R. When Python processes these it passes backslashes through. In
this latter case, the character following the backslash is ALWAYS copied
literally into the string, which means that even a raw string cannot end in
a single backslash (because the single backslash will escape the quote meant
to terminate the string.

regards
 Steve




From jianchen at my-deja.com  Mon Jan  8 22:50:40 2001
From: jianchen at my-deja.com (jianchen at my-deja.com)
Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2001 03:50:40 GMT
Subject: zombie question
References: <93c19g$5k7$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <mailman.978959594.8297.python-list@python.org> <93ci26$hog$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <mailman.978977829.20827.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <93e1qf$sbp$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

Thank you, Blair.

what is the matter with coon.close()? is there more things should I do
in the parent process?

As to the question of Os type, how can I decide it? And after that,
what actions should be performed?

oh, so many questions.  :)

thanks again!


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From zeitlin at seth.lpthe.jussieu.fr  Fri Jan 26 14:54:27 2001
From: zeitlin at seth.lpthe.jussieu.fr (Vadim Zeitlin)
Date: 26 Jan 2001 19:54:27 GMT
Subject: Tkinter vs wxPython: your opinions?
References: <3A6F899F.E164F628@home.com> <hvZb6.2156$_8.33280@news1.rdc1.bc.home.com> <slrn9710o1.73.cerutti@fiad06.norwich.edu> <slrn971716.ums.zeitlin@seth.lpthe.jussieu.fr> <yb1c6.9237$Qb7.1333124@newsb.telia.net>
Message-ID: <slrn973ld3.a2u.zeitlin@seth.lpthe.jussieu.fr>

On Thu, 25 Jan 2001 21:49:18 GMT, Fredrik Lundh <fredrik at effbot.org> wrote:
>Vadim Zeitlin wrote:
>>  This is very strange. Where is good documentation for
>> Tkinter to be found?
>
>on my newsserver, his post included pointers to John Grayson's
>book and the pythonware docs.

 Ah, thanks.

>maybe you flamed away before reading the entire post?

 Sorry, I didn't mean to flame anybody/thing at all. Of course, I prefer
wxPython and try to help people using it and to point to its strong points,
however you would notice that I try hard to not comment on TkInter at all
(if I ever did, it was always preceded by "IMHO") which only makes sense to my
very limited knowledge of it.

 I'd really hate if people took my posting as any kind of flame, so once
again: it was really not meant like one.

 Regards,
VZ

-- 
GCS/GM d? H+ s++:-- p2 au--- a- w+ v C+++ UBLS+++ P- L++ N++ E--- W++++ M? V--
-po+ R++ G`` !tv b+++ D--- e++++ u++ h--- f+ r++ n- y?


From delza at antarcti.ca  Tue Jan  9 16:57:42 2001
From: delza at antarcti.ca (Dethe Elza)
Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2001 21:57:42 GMT
Subject: Season's greetings (was Re: Some Python 2.1 ideas)
References: <mailman.977765348.13376.python-list@python.org> <928otj02l39@news1.newsguy.com> <92dar2$juv$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <cLs46.921536$8u4.18401688@news1.rdc1.bc.home.com> <931bhs$ol7$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <qPL66.974820$8u4.20145611@news1.rdc1.bc.home.com>

Nils wrote:
> Please can you help me with the installation of
> Vpython.
> My operating system is SuSE Linux 7.0.
> Which libraries are required ?
> Which version of Python is essential ?

I'm not sure if VPython has been updated to Python2.0 for linux.  You can
check out the
VPython page at http://virtualphoton.pc.cc.cmu.edu/projects/visual/
Or the mailing list archives:
http://www.geocrawler.com/archives/3/3931/2000/
Or the SourceForge site: http://sourceforge.net/projects/visualpython/

I've been using it under windows mainly because configuring linux for OpenGL
(not to mention all the extensions, etc.) is painful to me.  Because I'm a
sucker for punishment, however, I'm going to try to get it working under
RedHat on my laptop and if I have any success I'll pass along any insights.

--Dethe




From mikael at isy.liu.se  Mon Jan 29 09:57:54 2001
From: mikael at isy.liu.se (Mikael Olofsson)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 15:57:54 +0100 (MET)
Subject: Books
In-Reply-To: <3a757ac1$1@netnews.web.de>
Message-ID: <XFMail.010129155754.mikael@isy.liu.se>

On 29-Jan-01 Volker Jahns wrote:
 >  Second: I searchin links about PHYTON and fpound not very much. The german
 >  web-
 >  addr is dead and behind the .org have nothing to do (I think) with the
 >  language...

Try python instead...

www.python.org is very much alive. It is the official home of python.

www.phyton.org however, is something completely different...

HTH

/Mikael

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Phone:   +46 - (0)13 - 28 1343
Telefax: +46 - (0)13 - 28 1339
Date:    29-Jan-01
Time:    15:54:19

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From fredrik at effbot.org  Tue Jan  9 14:45:06 2001
From: fredrik at effbot.org (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2001 19:45:06 GMT
Subject: mxTools (was Re: why no "do : until"?)
References: <Iw5jLKALa0W6Ewjq@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>  <Pine.LNX.4.30.0101092015010.5204-100000@fep132.fep.ru> <mailman.979066090.17094.python-list@python.org> <93fobh$rqs$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <6TJ66.4634$AH6.762830@newsc.telia.net>

Donn Cave wrote:
> I have never used mxDateTime, so I have 0 cents on that, but I have
> used mxTextTools.  I found it to be efficient and powerful, and ought
> to be useful in a significant number of applications and modules
> that have text to parse -- if it were already available with the
> distribution.

can anyone summarize what mxTextTools can do that you
cannot do with the 're' module?

cheers /F




From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Jan 19 04:51:49 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 10:51:49 +0100
Subject: who imported me?
References: <947jh5$puv$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <9492nu0b1f@news2.newsguy.com>

<sragsdale at my-deja.com> wrote in message news:947jh5$puv$1 at nnrp1.deja.com...
> (Hopefully) easy question: I'm writing a module that uses values in
> variables from the script that imported it.

A very bad practice, like most all practice relying on global
variables; it will not 'scale' well and is likey to cause you
nothing but trouble.  I suggest a redesign and refactoring.


> How can I tell which script is importing me?

Your module's code is executed the FIRST time some other module
imports it, and, also, when the reload built-in function is used.

All other imports have no effect on your module, *just* on the
namespaces your module is being imported from.

If detecting the FIRST import is what you want (and you can
handle reloads), then a general approach can be something like:

import sys

try: raise 'foo'
except 'foo':
    impname = sys.exc_info()[2].tb_frame.f_back.f_globals['__name__']
    importing_module = sys.modules[impname]

The importing_module variable is now bound to the module object
that is importing you (for the first time, or by reload); the
name of that module is referred to by variable impname.


> Is there some easier way to get the parent module's variable values?

A module does not have a 'parent module' in general: there is not
even a directed acyclic graph of imports, as cycles are possible
(although dependency cycles are never a good idea, of course).

Further, when the module is first imported, variable values in the
importing modules are often not yet defined; the import statement
is generally placed before other variables' definitions.

If you want one module to pass variables to another, I suggest you
do so explicitly: have the 'child' module define an init function,
and the 'parent' module call it with the dictionary of values to
be passed.  This may just mean placing right after the:

import child

a line of:

child.init(globals())

if you want to pass all of the currently-defined names-values
dictionary; but this explicit setup is clearer and more flexible
than any obscure metaprogramming/reflection/introspection trick
you might be playing, such as the one I exemplify above.

If you consider that a module will often be imported by several
places, each wanting to pass it ITS own settings, you may also
realize that a module is not the ideal way to do this -- it may
well be preferable to define a *class* in the module, and use
*instances* of that class from the various 'importers'.  When
you create such an instance, you get to pass whatever you want
as the arguments to the constructor (received as arguments to
the __init__ method of the class you're "calling" for creation).


Alex





From fredrik at effbot.org  Sat Jan 13 06:48:57 2001
From: fredrik at effbot.org (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 11:48:57 GMT
Subject: A small suggestion for Python
References: <3A5F27F7.30268D9A@erols.com> <93p4oh$919$1@newsreaderg1.core.theplanet.net>
Message-ID: <JgX76.5813$Qb7.828243@newsb.telia.net>

from the when-did-you-last-read-the-faq-before-posting department
(or maybe the of-course-guido's-already-thought-of-that department):

> > I have been programming in Python for several years. I still
> > occasionally make mistakes with functions (such as sort) that
> > return only "None". I suggest that functions like sort should
> > return either "Nothing" or nothing. "Nothing" would be exactly
> > like "None" except it can't be assigned. Whether "Nothing" or
> > nothing is used, the statement "x= y.sort()" would raise a
> > run-time Exception.

today, chances are that you get a run-time exception when
you try to do something with "x".  That's of course the reason
sort returns None and not the sorted list (see below).

(sure, if you don't do something with x, you won't get an exception --
but in that case, does it really matter?)

> Another idea: It could return what we all excpect to be returned: The object
> that was sorted! So if a list is sorted, why not return the sorted list?

    http://www.python.org/doc/FAQ.html#6.20

    6.20. Why doesn't list.sort() return the sorted list?

    "In situations where performance matters, making a copy of the
    list just to sort it would be wasteful. Therefore, list.sort() sorts
    the list in place. In order to remind you of that fact, it does not
    return the sorted list. This way, you won't be fooled into
    accidentally overwriting a list when you need a sorted copy
    but also need to keep the unsorted version around."

Cheers /F




From DSHIN at nc.rr.com  Sun Jan 28 16:07:17 2001
From: DSHIN at nc.rr.com (Daehyok Shin)
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 21:07:17 GMT
Subject: [Q] Python hook for NCAR graphic lib?
Message-ID: <9S%c6.63925$YQ.13603018@typhoon.southeast.rr.com>

Is there any python program to support NCAR graphic lib?

--
Daehyok Shin (Peter)





From juergen.erhard at gmx.net  Fri Jan 26 16:54:47 2001
From: juergen.erhard at gmx.net (Jürgen A. Erhard)
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 22:54:47 +0100
Subject: PSU uses emacs?
In-Reply-To: <%KYa6.1423$eI2.487638@ruti.visi.com> (grante@visi.com)
References: <zoka6.19675$Mo6.204420@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com> <94cktu$d9c$1@news.wrc.xerox.com> <%KYa6.1423$eI2.487638@ruti.visi.com>
Message-ID: <26012001.2@wanderer.local.jae.ddns.org>

>>>>> "Grant" == Grant Edwards <grante at visi.com> writes:

    Grant> In article <94cktu$d9c$1 at news.wrc.xerox.com>, Mark Jackson wrote:

    >>> [...] Who designed DOS anyway, Gary Kildall wasn't it?

    >> That was CP/M, the 16-bit version of which was considered by
    >> IBM for their PC but not chosen.  MS-DOS was first licensed and
    >> then purchased by Microsoft from Seattle Computer Products.  It
    >> was written by Tim Paterson; heavy CP/M influence is evident,
    >> but it was far from a clone.  See Paul Ceruzzi, /A History of
    >> Modern Computing/.

    Grant> Looked like a clone to me.  Virtually identical FCB
    Grant> structure, BIOS entry point at 0x0005, same executable
    Grant> layout, etc. etc.

What I recall from the time is that (I heard then) there was a tool
(from Intel?) that could convert 8080 assembly code to 8086/88
assembly code.

So with a virtually identical OS (in the important things as you,
Grant, mentioned), application vendors could *very* easily port their
CP/M software to QDOS (recall that *then*, and especially on CP/M,
virtually all software was still being written in assembly).

Big win for all involved (except for the slow, "bloated" apps because
they were not adapted to the 8086 arch).

At least, that's my recollection...

Bye, J

PS: Does this all mean that I'm *OLD*?  ;-)

-- 
J?rgen A. Erhard    juergen.erhard at gmx.net   phone: (GERMANY) 0721 27326
     MARS: http://members.tripod.com/Juergen_Erhard/mars_index.html
                   The 80-20 rule for an NT project:
   20% time for real coding  --  80% time for working around NT bugs



From rayed at mail.com  Fri Jan 26 01:26:39 2001
From: rayed at mail.com (Rayed Al-Rashed)
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 06:26:39 GMT
Subject: Simple HTML template modules?
Message-ID: <3A711877.4C5B51AF@mail.com>

Hi,

I am trying to build CGI programs using Python, and I searched for
simple HTML templates modules but couldn't find any ... any ideas
where I can find such module.

Thanks,
Rayed


From michael at stroeder.com  Tue Jan  2 01:51:16 2001
From: michael at stroeder.com (Michael =?iso-8859-1?Q?Str=F6der?=)
Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2001 07:51:16 +0100
Subject: Simulating WWW button press
References: <Xns901CE2154Latzikatz@139.174.2.56> <mailman.978398162.28694.python-list@python.org> <Xns901D1B3B2Latzikatz@139.174.2.56> <mailman.978402781.32236.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3A517A64.9FD43B5F@stroeder.com>

Jan Dries wrote:
> 
> > <form ACTION="/dyx-pv/onepagebatch/lV21.zip" ENCTYPE=x-www-form-encoded
> > METHOD=POST>
> 
> Oops, a zip-file. That's not making things easier.

It does not necessarily have to be a ZIP file. Maybe the CGI-BIN is
just named that way to make it more convenient to choose an
appropriate file name when saving it.

Ciao, Michael.


From phil at geog.ubc.ca  Sat Jan  6 14:20:17 2001
From: phil at geog.ubc.ca (Phil Austin)
Date: 06 Jan 2001 11:20:17 -0800
Subject: How To Think Like A Computer Scientist
References: <mailman.978792246.18973.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m3u27ca3ny.fsf@geog.ubc.ca>

Nirina Raseliarison <raseliar at dts.mg> writes:

> Hi All,
> 
> Can you point to me another URL for the Python version?
> This one, I found in the archive:
> http://www.elkner.net/obp/thinkCS/thinkCSpy/index.htm
> seems to be broken now.
> Thanks in advance for your help
> Nirina
> 

I've converted the web pages to pdf format at:


http://www.geog.ubc.ca/~phil/courses/think.html

Regards, Phil


From jerry_spicklemire at my-deja.com  Tue Jan  2 14:29:16 2001
From: jerry_spicklemire at my-deja.com (jerry_spicklemire at my-deja.com)
Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2001 19:29:16 GMT
Subject: book recommendation?
References: <92t6e7$9jn$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <92ta60$d6l$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

> I'm new to Python and I would appreciate suggestions
> for what would be a good reference book to buy?
> I'm an old hand in general.  I know C and Perl very
> well and Java a little.  I've been a programmer and
> sysadmin for eight years.  I'm looking for a book
> that would be a good language reference, but also
> has introductions to Python's special features without
> being too "slow".

Since being published last year, David Beazley's 'Python Essential
Refernce' (ISBN 0735709017) has rapidly gained a reputation for living
up to its name. The first hundred pages are a compact introduction to
language features and usage, with the bulk being a well indexed
reference.

If you haven't seen the online materials, check out:

 http://www.python.org/doc/

and assorted links from there.

Also see :

 http://x57.deja.com/=dnc/threadmsg_ct.xp?
thitnum=97&AN=709570769.1&mhitnum=0&CONTEXT=978462644.1602355257

(you'll have to re-assemble the URL)

for an enthusiastic review of a very recent publication, and a long
thread on that and related topics.

Have fun!
Jerry S.



Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From sdm7g at virginia.edu  Thu Jan 25 12:51:20 2001
From: sdm7g at virginia.edu (Steven D. Majewski)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 12:51:20 -0500 (EST)
Subject: I mean *setup.py* ! ... (more questions)[Re: libraries=['m']
 inconfig.py [Re: Python 2.1 alpha 1 released!]]
In-Reply-To: <94p66v$e55qc$1@ID-59885.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <Pine.NXT.4.21.0101251235280.225-100000@localhost.virginia.edu>


On Thu, 25 Jan 2001, Thomas Heller wrote:

> 
> "M.-A. Lemburg" <mal at lemburg.com> wrote in message news:mailman.980419470.4109.python-list at python.org...
> >
> > Please post these suggestions on the Python bugs listm, Python-Dev
> > or Andrew Kuchling who wrote the setup.py script -- the
> > distutils approach to auto-configuring Python's builtin modules
> > is very new and still needs some refinements.
> >
> Andrew and Guido seem to have zero interest in supporting
> platforms other than linux/unix.
> 
> Thomas
> 

 I've gotten some quick responses from Andrew on this and other OSX
specific bugs I've posted at SourceForge. I think they have the 
interest in having Python supported on those platforms, but they
can't do the testing on all those platforms and have to rely on
other folks submitting bugs and patches. 

 They seem to have fixed most of the Mac OSX problems that were in
the 2.0 release. The problem is that the new setup and configure 
method fixed a few and broke a few more things. 
 The only things they haven't really fixed are the things for which
we (Mac OSX Python users) haven't given them a consensus on how it
ought to be fixed or handled. ( Or things like the case insensitivity
problems which can't be fixed in the obvious simple way ( changing
the names of modules so there can't be any confusion ) without some
backwards compatibility problems. ) 

 Also: Mac and Windows require so many additional modules that they
really need a separate distribution to manage them. The trick is to
keep it simple to be able to merge the platform specific stuff into
a new standard distribution. I think that's part of the goal of the
new setup and using disutils. I *hope* it's like the highway construction
signs: "Temporary Inconvenience, Permanent Improvement!" 

-- Steve Majewski





From fredrik at effbot.org  Fri Jan  5 03:14:15 2001
From: fredrik at effbot.org (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 08:14:15 GMT
Subject: Unexpected result for list operator "+="
References: <3A542778.E1BC06E3@bogusaddress.com> <mfW46.227356$U46.7026522@news1.sttls1.wa.home.com> <zv756.231593$U46.7089647@news1.sttls1.wa.home.com>
Message-ID: <rnf56.3809$Qb7.492757@newsb.telia.net>

Greg Jorgensen wrote:
> The real distinction--that assignment operations on immutable objects
> create new objects (or bind a reference to a different existing object)

Careful.

Ordinary assignment operations (a = b) bind names in a name-
space, they never create new objects.

Things that may look as assignment operations, but are really
syntactic sugar for method calls, may do whatever they want:

    a[x] = b # short for __setitem__
    a.x = b # short for __setattr__
    a += b # short for __iadd__
    a.append(b)

There's no distinction between mutable and immutable objects
in Python itself.  An object is immutable only if it doesn't have
any methods that allow you to change its content.  Neither you
nor Python can do an "ismutable(x)" test.

Cheers /F




From prestonlanders at my-deja.com  Wed Jan 10 11:43:21 2001
From: prestonlanders at my-deja.com (Preston Landers)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 16:43:21 GMT
Subject: why is this namespace weirdness happening?
Message-ID: <93i3f7$122$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

 Hi All.

I noticed some namespace/import behavior that seems weird to me.  It
happens in both Python 1.5.2 and 2.0 (though the error message is
different.) Sorry if this is a FAQ; maybe someone could briefly explain
why this happens.

file1.py:---------------------

import file2

def foo():
    import file2
    # the line below fails if the line above is cmted out
    # but works fine if present
    print "file2 bar: ", file2.bar
    import file2
    print "file2 baz: ", file2.baz

foo()

file2.py:---------------------

bar = 1
baz = 2

------------------------------

It seems that on the file1 "bar" line, if the 'import file2' above it is
commented out, the file2.bar reference will fail (file2 being the
unrecognized item.)  Despite the 'import file2' at the top of the file.
It seems to be due to the 'import file2' following the statement.
Python seems to be scanning ahead for imports...?

I know that doing an import inside a function is not neccesary if you
have imported the module at the top of the file.  However, it seems
strange that it only fails if there is an odd number of import
statements for that module.

thanks!
Preston
pibble at yahoo dot com


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From fredrik at effbot.org  Mon Jan 22 18:14:03 2001
From: fredrik at effbot.org (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 23:14:03 GMT
Subject: Count and replacing strings a texfile
References: <94i9ft$apq$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <%83b6.8735$Qb7.1226624@newsb.telia.net>

pucko (?) wrote:
> This is a probably basic question.
> I have a textfile about 120k large, and there is several strings in it
> which I must replace.
> The strings are named "%id%" and the number of strings are unknown.
>
> First, I need to count them all.
> Then I must replace every one of them with a incrementing number.
> Like the first %id% is replaced with 1, the second with 2 etc.

how about:

import re

class Replacer:

    pattern = re.compile(r"%id%")

    def __init__(self):
        self.counter = 0

    def getcounter(self):
        return self.counter

    def fixup(self, m):
        self.counter = self.counter + 1
        return str(self.counter)

    def replace(self, text):
        return self.pattern.sub(self.fixup, text)

x = "%id% spam %id% egg %id%"

r = Replacer()

print r.replace(x)
print r.getcounter()

# if you really have to count the %id%s before you replace
# them, use len(r.pattern.findall(x)))

Hope this helps!

Cheers /F




From donn at u.washington.edu  Wed Jan 10 16:04:32 2001
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: 10 Jan 2001 21:04:32 GMT
Subject: How to check on process time?
References: <93ie2i$bse$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <93iip0$jhu$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>

Quoth noahspurrier at my-deja.com:
| Which Python library do I want to get extensive process information?
| I need to look at any process running -- not just the parent, current,
| or child processes.

As far as I know, that isn't supported on contemporary computer
platforms, at least in any meaningfully portable way, and that
would be why you don't see anything for it in Python.  The "ps"
command doesn't use any kind of API, it just reads kernel memory
where this stuff is stored.

If it doesn't need to be portable, and your present platform
supports it, I'd say use the "/proc" filesystem.  The following
prints accumulated times, on FreeBSD 4.1.

	Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu
----------------------------------------
import errno
import posix
import string

def ps():
        proc = posix.listdir('/proc')
        for pid in proc:
                try:
                        pidval = string.atoi(pid)
                except ValueError:
			#  Ignore /proc/curproc etc.
                        continue
                try:
                        fp = open('/proc/%s/status' % (pid,), 'r')
                except IOError, val:
                        if val.errno == errno.ENOENT:
                                print pid, '... already gone'
                                continue
                        else:
                                raise
                ln = fp.readline()
                fp.close()
                ln = string.split(ln)
                cmd = ln[0]
                uss, usu = map(string.atoi, string.split(ln[8], ','))
                sys, syu = map(string.atoi, string.split(ln[9], ','))
                print '%5s %-14s%6d.%06d %d.%09d' % (pid, cmd, uss, usu, sys, syu)

ps()


From Armin_member at newsguy.com  Mon Jan  1 05:15:09 2001
From: Armin_member at newsguy.com (Armin Steinhoff)
Date: 1 Jan 2001 02:15:09 -0800
Subject: SMB Module
References: <92n1lh02evv@drn.newsguy.com> <3A4F6374.1A6C549F@dittmar.net>
Message-ID: <92plbd0134j@drn.newsguy.com>

In article <3A4F6374.1A6C549F at dittmar.net>, Daniel says...
>
> 
>> Makes no sense, because a SMB client mapps normaly a M$ volume to a directory
>>tree (UNIX) or a virtual drive (M$) ... I don't see in that case any tasks for
>> Python.
>
>Makes the same sense as ftplib: you want to access files on a host which
>exports them in a specific way.

Hmm ... when I have mapped a SMB volume to my directory tree at /tmp ... I make
just e.g. an f=open('/tmp/workfile', 'w').

I believe that's different to a FTP like file handling ...

Armin

Happy New Year to ALL



From wmiller34 at my-deja.com  Wed Jan  3 10:59:08 2001
From: wmiller34 at my-deja.com (wmiller34 at my-deja.com)
Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 15:59:08 GMT
Subject: time.mktime bug in 2.0?
Message-ID: <92vi86$7cp$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

I'm getting this "TypeError" when I use mktime in 2.0.  It works in
1.52.  Any ideas?

>>> import time
>>> t = time.mktime(1999,12,21,0,0,0,0,0,0)
Traceback (innermost last):
  File "<interactive input>", line 1, in ?
TypeError: mktime requires exactly 1 argument; 9 given


-Walter


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From t.harris at robinsons.co.uk  Fri Jan 19 04:21:16 2001
From: t.harris at robinsons.co.uk (Toby)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 09:21:16 -0000
Subject: Debugging
Message-ID: <979896042.23819.1.nnrp-10.c3ad12d2@news.demon.co.uk>

Is it possible to debug an Python 2.0 extension (a DLL) written in MSVC++
6.0 ? If so how ? I presume I would need a debug version of Python as
well...

TIA Toby




From moshez at zadka.site.co.il  Wed Jan  3 09:37:20 2001
From: moshez at zadka.site.co.il (Moshe Zadka)
Date: Wed,  3 Jan 2001 16:37:20 +0200 (IST)
Subject: Recursion
In-Reply-To: <slrn954tef.nd.amk@207-172-37-36.s36.tnt7.ann.va.dialup.rcn.com>
References: <slrn954tef.nd.amk@207-172-37-36.s36.tnt7.ann.va.dialup.rcn.com>, <mailman.978384722.18514.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <20010103143720.B8D5FA84F@darjeeling.zadka.site.co.il>

On 3 Jan 2001 00:30:35 GMT, amk at mira.erols.com (A.M. Kuchling) wrote:

> Ignore the "#ifdef sparc" branch, and it's quite
> simple. rb_gc_stack_start is determined by doing {VALUE start;
> rb_gc_stack_start = &start;} during program initialization. 

I've already hinted at something like this a few months ago, after
getting the very same idea from guile. The big problem is that Python
is designed to be embedded easily. Don't know about Ruby, but Guile
is a pain to embed especially because of this reason.

This is the same reason Python (unlike Ruby and Guile) doesn't have
"traditional" GC.
-- 
Moshe Zadka <sig at zadka.site.co.il>
This is a signature anti-virus. 
Please stop the spread of signature viruses!



From grante at visi.com  Mon Jan 22 11:45:55 2001
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 16:45:55 GMT
Subject: What does Python do
References: <94gmeu$4fc$1@sooner.brightok.net>
Message-ID: <7tZa6.1434$eI2.491200@ruti.visi.com>

In article <94gmeu$4fc$1 at sooner.brightok.net>, Dead Dan wrote:
>What kinds of programs can you make with Python. Does anyone have some
>examples.

Drawing programs
Web browsers
System administration utilities
Text processing
Web servers
Games
Numerical/scientific calculations
Data visualization
E-mail clients
E-mail servers
FTP clients
FTP servers

[...]

almost anything

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  I put aside my
                                  at               copy of "BOWLING WORLD"
                               visi.com            and think about GUN
                                                   CONTROLlegislation...


From erno-news at erno.iki.fi  Sun Jan 14 10:59:06 2001
From: erno-news at erno.iki.fi (Erno Kuusela)
Date: 14 Jan 2001 17:59:06 +0200
Subject: libpython2.0 as a Linux shared library
References: <3A618354.577B192A@mega-nerd.com> <kuofxafiej.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>
Message-ID: <kuk87yf7lh.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>

In article <kuofxafiej.fsf at lasipalatsi.fi>, Erno Kuusela
<erno-news at erno.iki.fi> writes:

| /debian/dists/woody/main/source/interpreters/python2-*

erm, it's not in woody yet(testing), it's in sid (unstable)... so
it's at http://http.us.debian.org/debian/pool/main/p/python2/

  -- erno


From thomas at cintra.no  Wed Jan 10 09:52:29 2001
From: thomas at cintra.no (Thomas Weholt)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 15:52:29 +0100
Subject: Generating a DIFF between two xml-files ??
Message-ID: <NG_66.1970$k25.20083@news1.oke.nextra.no>

I need to generate a diff between to xml-files. They're based on the same
schema or DTD. The diff-file must be in xml-format too. ( And that's where
the problem starts. )

Any clues on how to do this ?

Thomas





From amk at mira.erols.com  Fri Jan 12 22:25:00 2001
From: amk at mira.erols.com (A.M. Kuchling)
Date: 13 Jan 2001 03:25:00 GMT
Subject: ZODB and Python 2.0
References: <mailman.979337025.17444.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrn95vje6.gm.amk@207-172-113-55.s55.tnt5.ann.va.dialup.rcn.com>

On Fri, 12 Jan 2001 17:02:36 -0500, Tim Peters <tim.one at home.com> wrote:
>[Steve Menard]
>> ...
>> So finally, my question is this : Why isn;t ZODB available as a separate
>> package using the distutils?
>
>http://sourceforge.net/projects/zodb/

That's not really going to help if he's on Windows without a compiler.
Someone needs to download the code and run "python setup.py
bdist_wininst"; I have no idea if it'll work, but it's worth a try.

Paul Prescod also recently reported compiling ZODB for Windows and
offered to mmake binaries available.  Paul, if you want to provide a
pointer to them, I'll add a copy to the SourceForge site.

--amk


From glenfant at equod.com.nospam  Wed Jan 17 12:49:13 2001
From: glenfant at equod.com.nospam (Gilles Lenfant)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 18:49:13 +0100
Subject: urgent help required
References: <944ik7$4m4$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <944lko$n0m$1@reader1.imaginet.fr>

Remove the trailing "/" from the file name. This should work !

<ltonin at my-deja.com> a ?crit dans le message news:
944ik7$4m4$1 at nnrp1.deja.com...
> well, when i try to load an image using python|
> PIL  under zope, i received the following error
> mesg:
>
> Error Type: IOError
> Error Value: [Errno 20] Not a
> directory: "MyImage.jpg/"
>
> i know it isn't a directory!!! it s an image!!!
>
> what's the mess ??????
> does anybody know why??
> plz help......
>
> Thanks by advance
>
>
>
> Sent via Deja.com
> http://www.deja.com/



From dkuhlman at rexx.com  Wed Jan 17 17:23:40 2001
From: dkuhlman at rexx.com (Dave Kuhlman)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 22:23:40 -0000
Subject: DCOracle + Python Question
References: <t6c35ih83dl7de@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <979770232.135032@rexx.com>

If DCOracle is writing to either stdout or stderr, then look at the
description of stdout and stderr in the sys module described at:

    http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/module-sys.html

in order to learn how to either re-route or throw away that output.


Basicaly, you define a class containing a "write" method taking one
parameter (the input string).  Then, assign an instance of this
class to sys.stdout or sys.stderr.

An example that hides error messages, then restores them:



>>> class MyHandler:
...     def write(self, msg):
...         pass
...
>>> import sys
>>> savehandler = sys.stderr
>>> sys.stderr = MyHandler()
>>> a = x
>>> a = y
>>> sys.stderr = savehandler
>>> a = x
Traceback (innermost last):
  File "<console>", line 1, in ?
NameError: x



  - Dave


Jose Martin <joseamartin at venmex.com> wrote:
> 
>  try:
>            dbc=DCOracle.Connect(connectstring)
>  except: pass
> 
> 
> if an error occurs , i dont want to show the message in the screen.
> how can hide the error message.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>       _    _
>      @  @
>          'J
>         ~^
> 
> 

-- 
Dave Kuhlman
dkuhlman at rexx.com


From claird at starbase.neosoft.com  Thu Jan 25 17:44:36 2001
From: claird at starbase.neosoft.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: 25 Jan 2001 16:44:36 -0600
Subject: what GUI, please advise
References: <3A6F18F2.536F27FE@crepido.com> <mailman.980378246.26304.python-list@python.org> <CDB31EB6FBE52A77.DD693053330FF80D.C9225379711276A9@lp.airnews.net> <mailman.980390128.6084.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <CA3E66A254F81ADF.41755A9BF884E8F1.FDAC47C6A6BC3AF8@lp.airnews.net>

In article <mailman.980390128.6084.python-list at python.org>,
D-Man  <dsh8290 at rit.edu> wrote:
>On Wed, Jan 24, 2001 at 05:32:30PM -0600, Cameron Laird wrote:
>| In article <mailman.980378246.26304.python-list at python.org>,
>| D-Man  <dsh8290 at rit.edu> wrote:
>| >
>| >(steering the discussion in my direction ...)
>| >
>| >What is the general feeling of GTK+ vs. wxWindows?
>| 			.
>| 			.
>| 			.
>| Does <URL:
>| http://www.sunworld.com/unixinsideronline/swol-12-2000/swol-1218-wxwindows.html
>| >
>| help?
>
>Thanks, but I had already read it.  It was a good article, but it
>didn't talk much about how it compares against GTK+ from a
>application design point of view.
>
>What is your personal opinion Cameron?  (You apparently have a rather
			.
			.
			.
I usually get uncomfortable when people ask for *that*.
OK, for you:  GTK+ has never worked out right for me.
The people behind it are bright, energetic, and ambiti-
ous.  They have wonderful plans for the future.  I think
they might well dominate the GUI toolkit arena some day
in the future.  Right now, though, wxPython does better
for me.  It's a more solid binding to a more mature tool-
kit.

I think any of these toolkits are likely to take you a
long way.  Many of the differences between them are
"subjective" or at least personal, and only to be dis-
covered through intimate work with them.
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at NeoSoft.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://starbase.neosoft.com/~claird/home.html


From dan.rolander at marriott.com  Sat Jan 13 05:39:18 2001
From: dan.rolander at marriott.com (Dan Rolander)
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 05:39:18 -0500
Subject: Installer Problem
References: <6176E3D8E36FD111B58900805FA7E0F80CCF62C1@mcnc-mdm1-ex01>
Message-ID: <012401c07d4d$1549dd50$11260340@yin>

FYI:  Gordon helped me. The problem was that I was using an older version of
Installer. Check his http://www.macmillan-inc.com for the latest.

Dan

----- Original Message -----
From: "Rolander, Dan" <Dan.Rolander at marriott.com>
To: <python-list at python.org>
Sent: Friday, January 12, 2001 10:17 AM
Subject: Installer Problem


> Can anyone help me understand this traceback I'm getting when trying to
> use
> Gordon McMillan's Installer?
>
> C:\Program Files\Installer\projects\actionizer>..\..\standalone.py
> action.py
> File 'action.cfg' already exists. Overwrite? [yn]y
> > "C:\Program Files\Python20\python.exe" C:\PROGRA~1\INSTAL~3\Builder.py
> action.
> cfg
> opts: []
> args: ['action.cfg']
> Initializing
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "C:\PROGRA~1\INSTAL~3\Builder.py", line 502, in ?
>     main(opts, args)
>   File "C:\PROGRA~1\INSTAL~3\Builder.py", line 473, in main
>     target = makeTarget(cfg, section)
>   File "C:\PROGRA~1\INSTAL~3\Builder.py", line 416, in makeTarget
>     return dispatch[cfg.get(section, 'type')](cfg, section, optcnvrts)
>   File "C:\PROGRA~1\INSTAL~3\Builder.py", line 337, in __init__
>     FullExeTarget.__init__(self, cfg, sectnm, cnvrts)
>   File "C:\PROGRA~1\INSTAL~3\Builder.py", line 281, in __init__
>     ArchiveTarget.__init__(self, cfg, sectnm, cnvrts)
>   File "C:\PROGRA~1\INSTAL~3\Builder.py", line 245, in __init__
>     CollectTarget.__init__(self, cfg, sectnm, cnvrts)
>   File "C:\PROGRA~1\INSTAL~3\Builder.py", line 144, in __init__
>     Target.__init__(self, cfg, sectnm, cnvrts)
>   File "C:\PROGRA~1\INSTAL~3\Builder.py", line 34, in __init__
>     print "Initializing", self.__name__
> AttributeError: 'ExeTarget' instance has no attribute '__name__'
>
> C:\Program Files\Installer\projects\actionizer>
>
> --
> http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>




From phd at phd.pp.ru  Thu Jan 11 05:04:31 2001
From: phd at phd.pp.ru (Oleg Broytmann)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 13:04:31 +0300 (MSK)
Subject: mxTools (was Re: why no "do : until"?)
In-Reply-To: <31575A892FF6D1118F5800600846864D5B16CF@intrepid>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0101111302200.18837-100000@fep132.fep.ru>

On Thu, 11 Jan 2001, Simon Brunning wrote:
> So, if this were a democracy, which it isn't, I'd vote for mxDateTime to
> definitely go in, for someone to think about the additional built-ins, and
> for mxODBC to stay separate.
>
> As it is, though, it's a one-man-one-vote system. Guido is the man, he has
> the vote. So we'll just have to wait and see...

   Though it is not a democracy, you can (a kind of) force a resolution of
the question. If the mxDateTime's license permits it, create a patch for
Python distribution and upload it to the patch manager. :)

Oleg.
----
     Oleg Broytmann            http://phd.pp.ru/            phd at phd.pp.ru
           Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN.




From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sat Jan  6 14:09:00 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2001 20:09:00 +0100
Subject: Migrating to perl?
References: <3Fa56.4580$of7.216286@news1.atl> <3A571A63.7B2022AF@python.net>
Message-ID: <937qt301r4t@news1.newsguy.com>

"Thomas A. Bryan" <tbryan at python.net> wrote in message
news:3A571A63.7B2022AF at python.net...
    [snip]
> > And lastly, what about the Python community?
>
> I've seen people post obvious trollbait.  Instead of starting a flamefest,
> instead of being ignored, a meaningful discussion resulted.
>
> Even when Tim Peters tells you that you don't know what you're talking
> about, he does it with a wink and a thorough explanation.
>
> couln't-be-happier-ly yours

The <wink>'s and the -ly's, of course, are the price one has to pay; but
the thorough explanations are part of the payback, and it seems to me
that one gets good value overall.


Alex





From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Mon Jan 22 15:20:47 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 21:20:47 +0100
Subject: how to test for nesting inlist
References: <94bhte$4iv$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <94bvgu0kt4@news2.newsguy.com> <94ea6k$4uc$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <mailman.980119825.5586.python-list@python.org> <94h7pi$b86$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <94hau902rvd@news1.newsguy.com> <wkn1cjjrb5.fsf@mail.connact.com>
Message-ID: <94i4nt01ru1@news2.newsguy.com>

"Patricia Hawkins" <phawkins at spamnotconnact.com> wrote in message
news:wkn1cjjrb5.fsf at mail.connact.com...
> >>>>> "AM" == Alex Martelli <aleaxit at yahoo.com> writes:
>
> AM> <cpsoct at my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:94h7pi$b86$1 at nnrp1.deja.com...
> >> What are list comprehensions? I have looked and looked and looked in
> >> books and on www.python.org and i see no mention of these. Is this
>
> AM> A list comprehension is a syntax form such as:
>
> AM>     [<expression> for <var> in <sequence>]
>
> Like this:
>
> def howDeep2(x):
>     if type(x) != type([]):
>         return 0
>     return 1 + reduce(max, [howDeep(y) for y in x])

Yes, that's an example I posted recently, but I fear in this context it
might
perhaps confuse (by adding reduce, a typical 'functional' construct; as well
as recursion; plus a little mis-spelling as it tries to recursively call
'howDeep' but calls itself 'howDeep2'... the latter, my fault!-).

There are many simpler examples, e.g, "return a list of N random numbers":

def randomN(N):
    return [random.random() for i in range(N)]

or "return the squares of the integers from A to B included":

def squares(A,B):
    return [x*x for x in range(A,B+1)]

etc, etc.


Alex





From donn at u.washington.edu  Fri Jan  5 12:54:16 2001
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: 5 Jan 2001 17:54:16 GMT
Subject: Calling an application from inside a python script Take 1
References: <mailman.978680886.5942.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9351o8$8qm$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>

Quoth Chris Watson <chris at voodooland.net>:
(Quoting myself)
|> The easiest thing to write is
|> 
|>     import os
|>     ...
|>     os.system('ssh -l root %s vi /usr/local/etc/apache.conf' % host)
|> 
|> 
|> It's also about as dangerous as anything you can do in Python.  It
|> puts you completely at the mercy of whoever typed in that text at
|> the "Enter a hostname: " prompt.  Intentionally or not, a space
|> or a semi-colon etc. could yield very different results than you
|> intend.
|
| Someone else pointed out the exact same way. However they also described
| it was bad h0h0 magic to do it that way. So...
|
|> Luckily, with Python 2.0 we're getting to the point where you can
|> do this in a safer way without writing all the fork & exec stuff
|> yourself.  The function, os.spawnv(), is apparently here for
|> compatibility with Windows!  but it seems to be what we need;
|> you can look at the os module to see how it works if you want.
|> 
|>     import os
|>     os.spawnv(os.P_WAIT, '/usr/local/bin/ssh', ('ssh', '-l', 'root',
|>         host, 'vi', '/usr/local/etc/apache.conf'))
|> 
|> That last argument is a tuple of the argument list to ssh, starting
|> with argv[0].  In the system() function, we would eventually invoke
|> the shell to parse the string into these arguments, and that's where
|> the unexpected metacharacters wreak their havoc.  By passing the
|> arguments directly to the ssh process, we avoid that.
|
| I had thought about this briefly as well. And decided on an earlier
| repliers advice it would be wiser to copy the file to the local machine
| instead of editing it remotely.
|
|> Now, for this particular command, ssh, you might as well fold the
|> 'vi' and the file together, because ssh is going to do that for
|> the remote shell to parse back out.  So don't think you can get
|> a sanitary calculated argument list through to the remote shell -
|> that can't happen.  Your example is OK, because the remote command
|> is constant.
|
| Well what I finally came up with, and I am no coder by any means, was the
| following:
|
| #!/usr/local/bin/python
|
| import os
|
| host = raw_input("Enter a hostname: ");
|
| # Copy the file from the remote server to the local machine.
| os.system("scp user@%s:/home/user/TESTFILE /tmp/TESTFILE" % host) 
|
| # Edit the local copy.
| os.system("vi /tmp/TESTFILE")
|
| # "Push" the new config file from the local machine to the remote machine
| # using a secure ssh transport
| os.system("rsync -v -P -p -e ssh /tmp/TESTFILE user@%s:/home/user/TESTFILE" % host)

So picture what happens if the input isn't legit.

  os.system("scp user@%s:/home/user/TESTFILE /tmp/TESTFILE" % "; rm -r /*; ")
--> scp user@; rm -r /*; :/home/user/TESTFILE /tmp/TESTFILE

Want to try that and see what happens?  That's an intentionally hostile
input (don't try it, really.)  Accidental input errors might be harmless,
or might not.

I didn't see anything wrong with the ssh in your initial post, the
problem was system().  system() + user-supplied input = unpredictable
results.  Use spawnv().

	Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu


From MarkH at ActiveState.com  Thu Jan 11 18:04:04 2001
From: MarkH at ActiveState.com (Mark Hammond)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 23:04:04 GMT
Subject: ANNOUNCE: PyXPCOM - Python bindings for Mozilla XPCOM technology
Message-ID: <93le4v$10m$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

ActiveState is pleased to announce the first release of the Python
bindings for the Mozilla XPCOM (Cross-Platform COM) technology.

These bindings provide a Python package that allows a Python programmer
to use or implement any IDL specified XPCOM interface.  General
information on the Mozilla XPCOM technology can be found at
http://www.mozilla.org/projects/xpcom/

Although this is the first public release of these extensions, they are
being used extensively in the Komodo project, ActiveState's cross-
platform, multilanguage IDE based on Mozilla.  Thus the functionality
and stability of this package is remarkably high for a first release.

The current release should build under Windows and most Linux variants.
Although a manual build system is currently used, the intention is to
integrate the PyXPCOM build process with the Mozilla CVS tree and build
process.  Thus, in the future we can expect these extensions to work
anywhere Mozilla itself does.

This package was developed by ActiveState, and is being released under
the Mozilla Public Licence (MPL).  The source code (in .tar.gz and .zip
form) can be downloaded from
http://www.ActiveState.com/Products/Komodo/PYXPCOM

ActiveState is maintaining a mailing list for the Python XPCOM package.
All queries, comments and suggestions should be made via this mailing
list rather than in the forums where this announcement has been posted.
Information on the mailing list, including subscription options, can be
found at http://listserv.ActiveState.com/mailman/listinfo/pyxpcom


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From bowman at montana.com  Sat Jan 27 10:11:47 2001
From: bowman at montana.com (bowman)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 08:11:47 -0700
Subject: Python exporting
Message-ID: <nyBc6.3633$Uo2.9217@newsfeed.slurp.net>

Ghana python export earnings plummet due to glut

ACCRA (Reuters) - Ghana's earnings from exporting pythons slid more than 40
percent in 2000 as rising exports from neighbouring states flooded the
world market, forestry officials said on Wednesday.
Around 30,000 pythons, both farmed and caught in the wild, were exported,
mainly to the United States and Europe, for a total of $91,000 -- down from
over $160,000 taken the previous year from the sale of 33,000 of the
reptiles.
"Due to exports in larger quantities by Togo and Benin, causing price
fluctuation from five to between two and three dollars per python, trading
did not favour Ghanaian wildlife exporters," Brian Basuglo, senior wildlife
protection officer at Ghana's Forestry Commission, told Reuters.
"They are mostly used as pets and in some instances for scientific
purposes. However, the larger ones are sometimes used as delicacies in
restaurants," Basuglo said.
Python skins are also used for highly priced shoes, bags and belts.


sorry -- just couldn't resist






From tblin at my-deja.com  Tue Jan  2 21:31:32 2001
From: tblin at my-deja.com (TB)
Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 02:31:32 GMT
Subject: HELP! win32com, COM, Invoke problem
References: <92rv3q$asi$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <3A51EDBF.3000808@ActiveState.com> <92tmjr$oj1$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <3A5274F3.3070001@ActiveState.com>
Message-ID: <92u2u4$2vi$1@nnrp1.deja.com>


> You may have trouble with an OCX.  Python doesn't really support them.
> Pythonwin does to some degree - check out pywin\demos\ocx.
>

Well, it sounds like a naive question but what does it take to have
python support OCX? the reason here is that if it doesn't provide a
drop-in replace VBScript/JScript, it's hard to have the management's
(sorry, you know that)  buy-in on using it. Plus, it's nice to have this
feature anyway.

I tried to read something about COM and etc, but the info I'm getting is
just overwhelmingly complex. could you shed some light on how does VB
use OCX? and why it's different from other things (that win32com that
currently support) ?

Any plan to support OCX in win32com in the future? I'd like to help but
I guess I have a lot to learn even before I can make sense of what
you've done. Any suggest reading to begin with? I'm more of a
unix/perl/java guy and do some VB but never went seriously into C++ on
Windows.

Do you think it makes sense to manually write some wrappers to solve
this immediate problem? any idea how to do that (w/o going into C++ and
pyd) ?

Thanks for your help, really appreciate it.


--TB


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Thu Jan 11 04:28:16 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 10:28:16 +0100
Subject: Web devel with python. Whats the best route?
References: <93cqvi0191h@news1.newsguy.com> <mailman.978910629.6814.python-list@python.org> <mailman.978975978.19612.python-list@python.org> <spenrose-E755EB.22423209012001@news.dnai.com> <93hfp1013sm@news2.newsguy.com> <spenrose-149DD9.22095710012001@news.dnai.com>
Message-ID: <93juec0fk6@news1.newsguy.com>

"Sam Penrose" <spenrose at well.com> wrote in message
news:spenrose-149DD9.22095710012001 at news.dnai.com...
    [snip]
> > +for i in range(len(results)):
> >     <TR> <TD><B>@i@</B></TD> <TD>@results[i]@</TD> </TR>
> > -
> >
> > All the presentation logic goes into the template, all of
> > the computation into the Python CGI script, and my little
    [snip]
> 1) There is an irreducible need to either put Python statements into
> HTML or HTML tidbits into Python. You've chosen the former; my
> preference is for the latter:

Or else place both Python and HTML pieces into something 'above'
either, yes (it doesn't _have_ to be HTML, of course; any kind of
textual 'presentation language' will do just as well).  Against
the 'something above either' approach (side note)...:
    Even if the (somewhat richer/more complicated/more flexible and
    indirect) '3-pronged' approach is used, the presentation language
    template will still have to be using SOME kinds of markers to
    signify [a] substitution points for Python-computed values, [b]
    pieces that need to be repeated and conditions for repetition,
    [c] conditionally-included pieces (could be framed as a special
    case of [b] with 0 or 1 'repetitions').  [b] in particular seems
    to require some sort of minilanguage, and I don't see a need to
    invent, document, and implement a special-purpose minilanguage
    for something I can better express directly in Python.
So, back to the 2-pronged approaches only...:

For me, the deciding issue is separating issues of computation and
presentation.  With the presentation language (whatever it might
be) embedding Python pieces, all of the presentation issues are
fully concentrated in the 'template' file; the only level of coupling
are the names of the variables being presented (there's nothing that
stops a template-author from putting business logic in the Python
snippets he or she embeds, but the convention is that this is "just
not done" -- no enforcement... highly Pythonesque IMHO:-).

There is an underlying asymmetry: I'm quite willing to commit to
Python, only, as the language dealing with computation (as far as
the interface to presentation is concerned; if any other language
is involved with computing the results, Python will be dealing
with that, presenting a Python-only view at the interface anyway).

On the other hand, I'm *not* willing to commit to HTML, only, as
the language dealing with presentation; I want emitting RTF, or
Postscript, etc (or even different 'kinds' of HTML -- dialects
for different user-agents, 'skins', etc), to be as easy as using
a different presentation-language-template file (the broad class
of 'textual presentation languages' seems a satisfactory set).
[Actually, what I _do_ have that IS important to me in that toy
application are different HTML templates for different *human*
languages -- just one Python, since the computations are the
same, but different templates anyway; maybe supporting multiple
human languages is not important to you, but, working in a
country whose native language is not English, it looms large].

I'm not sure that it is this asymmetry that makes the direction
I've chosen for the embedding so satisfactory to me, but I do
suspect it's that.


> 2) You appear to use '+' and '@' (and '-'?) as non-Python, non-HTML
> markers to indicate the border between the two languages. One of the

Right, that's what I was using in this example (the '-' at line start
indicates 'de-dent', i.e., block-end; not strictly needed if one trusts
whitespace, I guess, but what with whitespace-eating viruses about to
be unchained, I played it safe:-).

> reasons I don't like systems involving executable language statements
> embedded in HTML, such as Zope, is that they all seem to require such
> markers. There are two costs associated with this:
>    i. Yet Another Syntax to learn. Someone who knows Python and HTML
> (me, for example) will not know how the syntax works. It looks as though
> you are using the '+' (an otherwise valid HTML character) to indicate
> the beginning of a Python block and the paired '@' markers for string
> substitution--but there might be regular expressions involved. I can't
> tell.

No, of course you can't tell from an undocumented 3-line example -- sorry,
I was not meaning to imply one could!  Particularly given that...:

There is a class of programmer, to whom I appear to belong, who's
past master at delaying key architectural decisions through insertion
of possibly-unwarranted generality in "infrastructure" modules.  In
my case, it comes from a lifetime spent programming (to-me) fascinating
software infrastructure and regularly clashing with a slight variant
of one of Parkinson's Laws -- and herein lies a tale.

The original version of the Law I have in mind: time spent discussing
decisions at a board-meeting is inversely proportional to the actual
financial impact of each decision.  Rationale: a decision swinging huge
amounts of money is likely to need lots of research and possibly some
specialistic background to even start approaching understanding, and
by far most board members won't have the needed background and will not
have bothered to do lots of homework in advance anyway.  Such decisions
often end up rubber-stamped because of that -- the proponent is the
only one who really understands the pro's and con's, he or she gives a
skewed presentation reflecting a specific viewpoint, the board members
are not willing to display too much ignorance (and the fact that they
have NOT read through the 400-pages document summarizing the points that
was supplied in advance of the meeting:-).

OTOH, board-meetings also take lots of trivial decisions, and _those_
often require no special background or preparation -- anybody can argue
hotly and longly about whether the 2000 pounds budgeted for repainting
the walls of the executives' bathroom is or isn't a reasonable amount,
far more than they can understand whether the 2 million pounds budgeted
for an overhaul of the firm's information-systems are.  Whence, MUCH
more heated discussion on the thousands, than on the millions.

The programming equivalent is, "syntax sugar".  I've made many deep,
and sometimes subtly wrong, design decisions over the last 25 years.
But when I go present my prototype, and propose turning it into a key
production element which will contribute to make or break our software's
overall success, hardly ever does anybody perk up and say, "I don't
understand why, in the transaction protocol you present on page 84,
you specify _synchronous_ handshaking -- what will *that* do to our
scalability on multiprocessor systems, haven't you accidentally ended
up introducing unwarranted processor-affinity?".  Oh no, the debates
are invariably about my choice of commas as opposed to semicolons (or
vice versa) as item-separators in debug-dumps, or something equally
"crucial".  THAT is something everybody's sure to have a strong opinion
about, even if they think processor affinity is a fancy new ice
cream taste.

So, over the years, one learns the (not necessarily optimal) habit of
leaving such silly surface issues flexible and easily generalized --
perhaps even exposing them as subsystem configuration variables or the
like.  Saves just too much time in design-review meetings!-(


So, in this vein, do you think I *hard-wired* the way embedded Python
expressions and statements are specified in the templates?!  *Not on
your life*!  They're *arguments* to the 'expand-this-template' function;
*regular expressions*, even, just so as to ensure I can wiggle out of
whatever syntax-sugar quibble is thrown across the meeting room.  (Yeah,
yeah, I know this was a little toy utility for my own use, and NOT bloody
likely to ever see the light of a design-review meeting room -- but
certain habits are hard to unlearn!-).

You can probably read between the lines that I'm not _proud_ of this
meta-decision to shirk decision, in the general case.  Here, though,
it was easy to rationalize, because I did in fact need this generality
to enable _whatever_ textual presentation language as the underlying
language... I could NOT rely on specific characteristics of HTML.
Also, I *was* keen to allow stuff that would survive intact any
round-trip through my favourite HTML editors (Arachnophylia & such).


>    ii. Another layer of magic characters to parse in BOTH HTML and
> Python--quick, how do you tell the difference between the '@' marking a
> Python variable, the '@' in an email address and the '@' and end user
> typed as an abbreviation for 'at' in a data chunk that you are
> re-inserting into your template for some reason?

I don't get the difference between the 2nd and 3rd cases -- it seems
to boil down to 'how do you tell the difference between occurrences
of the RE that define an embedded expression, and ones which just
happen'.  Answer: you pick an RE that doesn't "just happen".  The RE
I always end up using for embedded Python expressions in HTML is
'@([^@]+)@' (the group in it defines what goes back to eval) -- it
so happens that one never needs _two_ @-signs _on the same line_ in
my HTML usage (if two email addresses are given, they can be given
on separate lines since the intervening linebreak is no trouble).
If that wasn't the case (e.g. with a different textual presentation
language, or a different HTML style using <PRE>, etc), you'd just
choose a different RE -- '@@([^@]+)@' or whatever you like best --
see what I mean about wiggling out of syntax-sugar issues?-)

> What about '+' in URLs
> and Python statements? Presumbaly there are rules (Yet Another Syntax),

Embedded Python statements are line-oriented, which is hardly 'another'
syntax given that Python itself is; so, the '+' (or whatever else -- will
you believe, I made *that* into an RE too...!-) only matters if it's the
very first character on the line ('^+(.*)$', if you please... I'm surely
NOT proud of that, but it does give lots of wiggleroom:-).

> conventions (documented or otherwise), workarounds for troublesome
> cases, etc., but you've inherently added a third layer of logic, whose
> interaction with the Python and HTML layers will, in non-trivial
> projects, require non-trivial management.

Sorry, but I have to disagree on the latter point -- this *is* pretty
trivial stuff.  Hardwiring the RE's (which would then not really need
to be REs any more, at least for the statements) would in fact simplify
things (if the presentation-language flexibility could be dropped).


> 3) Those costs seem to have been worth it for you and many others
> (Digital Creations not least). I don't wish to argue with how others get
> their work done if that's what works for them. I do want to note that
> straight Python and HTML work fine for projects involving thousands of
> lines of Python in a couple dozen modules and hundreds of HTML files.

But if, for example, you need to be preparing your output in English,
or Italian, or French, depending on a 'session-state' variable, how
do you handle that without some form or other of template-substitution?

WITH the template thingy, I can just take a reference template (e.g.
the English one) and have it translated by somebody whose main skill
will be natural language translation -- all they have to understand
about Python, HTML, or the RE's in play to merge the two, is "enough
to avoid breaking things"... they just translate the textual parts,
after all -- having done a couple of templates with some supervision,
they've "learned the rules" (the tiny subset thereof they actually
need care about) and can just proceed.

An alternate (but more complex) approach would ensure translators
need only see a "catalog of messages", strictly pieces of natural
language text *with* markers (you really can't do without some kind
of marker-syntax, as word-order can change between languages even
among items that are program-output) -- make the translators' life
slightly simpler at the price of more substantial program logic
(merging the natural-language-message-catalog, the presentation-
language-template, *and* the program results -- be it on the fly,
or, partly beforehand).  In my previous experiences with programs
needing multiple natural languages' output (in somewhat different
settings), I've found this approach somewhat inferior: isolating
the messages reduces amount of context available to translators, and
risks impairing translation-quality; and I believe translators are
generally smart enough people to learn what pieces of the template
they should leave alone, particularly if you give them an easy way
to run output-tests displaying the effects of their work on a given
template-page.


Alex





From matt at virtualspectator.com  Sun Jan 21 17:24:05 2001
From: matt at virtualspectator.com (matt)
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 11:24:05 +1300
Subject: patch for python configure for freeBSD and Zope
Message-ID: <01012211280401.00887@localhost.localdomain>

Hi, I'm using  freeBSD 4.2-RELEASE and just tried to install python-1.5.2 and
Zope.  If you are trying to do the same and tun into the following error when
trying to start zope, then apply this patch to the configure script of python
and rebuild it.

ImportError: ./ExtensionClass.so: Undefined symbol "PyMethod_Type"

have fun
Matt
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From wagnernils at hotmail.com  Sat Jan  6 14:54:58 2001
From: wagnernils at hotmail.com (Nils Wagner)
Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2001 19:54:58 -0000
Subject: Fwd: Recompilation of Vpython
Message-ID: <F301W5J06zJmGxRR0hF00005a63@hotmail.com>




>From: "Nils Wagner" <wagnernils at hotmail.com>
>To: python-help at python.org
>CC: wagnernils at hotmail.com
>Subject: Recompilation of Vpython
>Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2001 19:23:03 -0000
>
>Hi,
>
>I tried to recompile Vpython
>
>http://cil.andrew.cmu.edu/projects/visual/index.html
>
>for Linux (Kernel 2.2.16).
>Python version : Python 2.0 (#1, Oct 16 2000, 18:10:03)
>[GCC 2.95.2 19991024 (release)] on linux2
>
>A make in cvisual/ produces the following messages (Makefile.res).
>
>Who can help me ?
>
>Nils

_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.
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From chris at voodooland.net  Tue Jan 16 19:38:52 2001
From: chris at voodooland.net (Chris Watson)
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 18:38:52 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Relational Databases and Python
In-Reply-To: <J6596.1085$DI.17491@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.21.0101161838180.89570-100000@open-systems.net>


> My reading of the PostgreSQL web site leads me to believe you'll be
> "limited" to UNIX platforms, I can't remember far enough back in the thread
> to determine whether this matters or not.

	Limited in platforms? AFAIK Postgresql runs on more unix platforms
than any other DB out there.

--
=============================================================================
-Chris Watson         (316) 326-3862 | FreeBSD Consultant, FreeBSD Geek 
Work:              scanner at jurai.net | Open Systems Inc., Wellington, Kansas
Home:  scanner at deceptively.shady.org | http://open-systems.net
=============================================================================
WINDOWS: "Where do you want to go today?"
LINUX: "Where do you want to go tomorrow?"
BSD: "Are you guys coming or what?"
=============================================================================
GNU = Gnu's Non-portable & Unstable
irc.openprojects.net #FreeBSD -Join the revolution!
ICQ: 20016186




From emile at fenx.com  Wed Jan 17 20:08:52 2001
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 17:08:52 -0800
Subject: Best way to learn Python ?
References: <aa8a6t895h8l3k2q7nmhd25oh6m7haulj9@4ax.com> <3A66211B.F7F4F6BB@bioeng.ucsd.edu>
Message-ID: <945fp1$ch3dc$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>

"Curtis Jensen" <cjensen at bioeng.ucsd.edu> wrote in message
news:3A66211B.F7F4F6BB at bioeng.ucsd.edu...
> J5 wrote:
> >
> > No schools teach it, so what books do you recommend ?
>
> I had a class that used it here at UCSD.  It was a
camparative languages
> class.  The class' focus wasn't Python, but we did discuss
it and had a
> programming assingment in it.
>
> Though, yes, it is not realy taught in schools.  But
neither is Pearl,
> Awk, Shell scripting, ML, Pascal (anymore), etc.

Actually, IIRC, Wes Chun (of Core Python Programming) has
been teaching Python at UCSC in Santa Cruz and Santa Clara
for at least a year.  Maybe more will start. ;-)


--

Emile van Sebille
emile at fenx.com
-------------------







From fakeaddress at nospammail.com  Mon Jan 29 01:02:03 2001
From: fakeaddress at nospammail.com (Ben Catanzariti)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 17:02:03 +1100
Subject: curly-brace-aphobic?
References: <3A74EBD6.3C87FD15@seebelow.org>
Message-ID: <951359.d5s.ln@mail>

Would this be to visually seperate lists and tuples creating less ambiguity?

"Grant Griffin" <not.this at seebelow.org> wrote in message
news:3A74EBD6.3C87FD15 at seebelow.org...
> Hi Gang,
>
> I'm sure this has been asked a thousand times, but I haven't seen it
> asked lately (or ever <wink>).
>
> Why does Python use square braces ([]) instead of curly braces ({}) when
> accessing dictionaries?
>
> This strange inconsistency in Python seems strangely inconsistent with
> its otherwise very consistent application of consistency: since we use
> curly braces to _create_ dictionaries, why not use them to _access_
> dictionaries?  (Or better yet, if the underlying design principle is to
> access things using a different syntax than what we used to create them,
> why not use curly braces to access lists?  <wink>)
>
> Anyway, although curly braces are perhaps slightly harder to type than
> square braces, this is one example (maybe the only one) where I find
> Perl code more readable: I appreciate the mnemonic effect curly braces
> have in reminding me that the thing being accessed is a dictionary*.
>
> or-is-python-just-"curly-brace-aphobic?-{wink}-ly y'rs,
>
> =g2
> * perl_terminology = { 'dictionary': 'hash' }
>
> -------------
>
> Addendum:  Now that I've written all that, I just had a flash.  Is it so
> that dictionary code can be sortta polymorphic wrt list code?
>
> doesn't-sound-like-a-very-good-reason-to-me...-ly y'rs,
>
> =g3
> --
> _____________________________________________________________________
>
> Grant R. Griffin                                       g2 at dspguru.com
> Publisher of dspGuru                           http://www.dspguru.com
> Iowegian International Corporation            http://www.iowegian.com




From benc at rehame.com  Mon Jan  8 22:52:28 2001
From: benc at rehame.com (Ben Catanzariti)
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 14:52:28 +1100
Subject: API\dll
Message-ID: <m22e39.snm.ln@mail>

Hi,

This may seem like a simple q for a lot of you?

I have an API with a dll. To call Functions from this dll the examples for
the API are written in C. However I would like to use Python to make the
same function calls. Does the dll have to be written specifically in the
language that is making the call to do this... in this case C? Or can Python
make calls to any dll?

thanks in advance

--
benc at rehame.com




From jasonic at nomadicsltd.com  Tue Jan  2 12:27:17 2001
From: jasonic at nomadicsltd.com (Jason Cunliffe)
Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2001 12:27:17 -0500
Subject: Electronic edition of 'The Standard Python Library'
References: <t7746.63812$59.17990421@news3.rdc1.on.home.com> <4f746.2529$AH6.401534@newsc.telia.net> <uDa46.65273$59.18402781@news3.rdc1.on.home.com> <3A517247.1B79FFC2@ieeeSPAMnot.org>
Message-ID: <t543m9sebfr4b8@corp.supernews.com>

I too had had major headaches getting a working copy of 'The Standard
Library' from Fat-Brain. The forst one was corrupt - finally they answered
then forgot to do the followup.After more nagging I succeeded.

Recently I also upgrade laptops = first the search for the oginal install
file and then began the search for the email holdiing the crucial install
key. Eventually found that on a CD bakup I had made. phew! I burned these
onto  asingle CD so at least now I don't have to waste time like that again.

Took the disk around to a local printshop and had them pintout + bind it up
into a comb binder with covers :-).
Now at least it is readable and reliable.

It is a great book, but disabling the 'copy text' feature is !@#$ pain for
bad tpist liek me. On the one hand it encourages me to enter code myself adn
learn by doing. Can't argue with that. But I honestly feel that should be
_my_ choice. Effectively it is only distribution trick - and by the time I
had lost time and paid for even a cheap binding, I was left wondering what
the real advantages were.

I am all in favour of electronic publishing, but throwing away one of the
key features [cut'n'paste] like this seems crazy.
Isn't there a better way to handle this which works for everyone?

- Jason
___________________________________________________________
Jason CUNLIFFE = NOMADICS['Interactive Art and Technology']




From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Tue Jan  2 17:23:23 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2001 23:23:23 +0100
Subject: Electronic edition of 'The Standard Python Library'
References: <t7746.63812$59.17990421@news3.rdc1.on.home.com> <ZQf46.83865$df5.2962770@news1.crdva1.bc.home.com>
Message-ID: <92tkm007t8@news1.newsguy.com>

"W.Izatt" <wayne.izatt at _fspam_myself.com> wrote in message
news:ZQf46.83865$df5.2962770 at news1.crdva1.bc.home.com...
> I had a nightmare getting my copy of this book to "work". My office is
> behind a firewall, so of course the registration process would not work.

Same here.

> Repeated calls to Fatbrain (more than 10) did not produce results. Emails
> were replied to by bots.

Identical experience here.

> Don't buy from Fatbrain. I don't know about the others.

I will heartily second this advice -- which *IS* a pity, because <F>'s
book itself is SO darned useful.  But Fatbrain's "support" for the ebooks
they sell appears to be repeatably abysmal.


Alex





From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Tue Jan 16 06:45:04 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 12:45:04 +0100
Subject: Where to find the 'dbi' and 'odbc' modules?
References: <mailman.979634964.31590.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <941cbh02uo8@news1.newsguy.com>

<egmanoj at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.979634964.31590.python-list at python.org...
> Hi all,
> I am a python newbie. I recently downloaded Python(2) for WinNT at my
> office and was fiddling with database access. Although the Python
> documentation mentions the dbi and odbc modules, they are not
> available with the Python 2 distribution. Can anyone tell me where
> these are available for download?

Python's "DB API", equivalent to Perl's "DBI", is, just like that
one, a _specification_, not 'a module': it specifies the interface
that must be supplied by any module that does offer access to a DB,
so client-code can be reasonably independent of the specific module
it uses.

mxODBC is a module, that implements ODBC for Python and (more or
less) meets the DB API specs.  www.lemburg.com/python/mxODBC.html.


A side note...

My favourite way of accessing DB's on NT (fastest, convenient) is
via Microsoft's ADO/AODX object model; you can use it (just like you
can use any other COM/Automation object model) via module win32com,
which is a part of 'win32all', the Windows extensions of Python.
(You already have them if you downloaded the ActiveState Python
distribution; if you got the standard Python distribution, you can
download win32all separately from ActiveState and install it -- it's
really, REALLY useful on Windows for all sorts of things).

However, ADO/ADOX don't meet the Python DB API specs (seems MS did
not know about them, can that be?-), so you'd need to wrap them up
in a DB-API compliant wrapper to keep your client-code portable.


Alex





From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Thu Jan  4 07:28:51 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 13:28:51 +0100
Subject: One Python 2.1 idea
References: <92va7o02rpj@news2.newsguy.com>, <018a01c071a5$e52abde0$102b2bc1@cadlab.it>, <92gjnu02q3r@news2.newsguy.com>, <mailman.978038049.481.python-list@python.org> <20001229190243.78478A84F@darjeeling.zadka.site.co.il> <mailman.978224055.28671.python-list@python.org> <mailman.978534843.948.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <931qbt02mss@news2.newsguy.com>

"Moshe Zadka" <moshez at zadka.site.co.il> wrote in message
news:mailman.978534843.948.python-list at python.org...
> [Moshe asks for problem where changing __class__ would be useful]

Actually, you asked more generally -- for problems in which
*transiently changing the behavior of a few methods of a few
objects* is the application-need.  I think it's meaningful
that you now phrase this as 'changing __class__' -- that's
just one WAY to 'change behavior', yet you think of them as
one and the same thing.  It's thus not surprising that you
conclude:

> I must say that in this case, I'm *sure* I'd fiddle with __class__
> rather then the new module. It's simple more obvious to write:

It's surely more obvious if one equates 'belongs to class X'
with 'has the behavior of class-X instances'... trivially true,
in fact.  But I thought the point of this sub-thread was
separating actual application-needs (transient behavior
changes in selected methods of certain objects: are they
ever really needed?) with ways to meet them (as I said, I
was _not_ using Python in that system, so neither changing
class nor transiently setting bound-methods was an option!-).


> > The simplest way to frame this, is to tell the plug-in authors
> > that they can just substitute their own code for any given
> > subset of methods of any exposed objects they can identify,
> > and 'restore' the original behavior when needed.
> [Ed. -- Other solution is to implement half of common lisp yourself]

It's not really that bad -- in fact, a full-fledged rich event
system is what we've used as the underlying framework for the
current version of our application, and it does work great (by
'rich' event-system, I have in mind one in which 'an event' is
incarnated into an event-object, just like in HMTL's DOM, rather
than being an insubstantial 'message' [function-call, etc], as
in most GUI's event-systems, COM events, etc).  Its generality
does make it somewhat harder to present; it's just easier for the
uninitiated to think of "A calls method B on object C", than of
"A instantiates eventobject E with E.request=B, E.target=C, then
posts E to the event-manager's queue (say, as a blocking-request
with high priority); C is among the listeners waiting for such
events [often, since the event-object has a specific target, the
_only_ listener, so the event-manager can be very speedy in its
delivery] -- when its turn comes to have a go at handling the
event, it runs whatever code is needed, sets E.response in the
appropriate way, and tells to the event-manager 'I've been quite
thorough in handling this event E, I don't think anybody else
needs to have a go at it' -- and the eventmanager finally
unblocks the waiting A, which can extract E.response and use it".

However, such typical use cases can and do get easily cast
into code -- it's just that the 'normal' call, in A's code:
    response = C.B()
becomes, in reality
    response = EventManager.PostMethodEvent(C, B)
where method MethodEvent of the EventManager handles the
above-mentioned semantic complexity (in fact, syntax can
be prettified back to the former case, if all possible
targets inherit from the appropriate mixin class that
knows how to direct stuff to the event-manager).

Similarly, 'hooking' the specific method B of the specific
object C is quite easy here -- C itself never even learns
about some of its methods being 'hooked' -- the 'hooker'
just asks _the event manager_ to install a listener on its
behalf, with priority just higher than C's listener, for
certain event patterns (those with target=C, request=B),
and basically "steals" the messages just before they actually
reach C itself.  Again, of course, this typical use case is
presented to plugin authors in encapsulated form, as easy
to use as 'temporarily changing C's own method B' would be.

Yeah, yeah, I know, nobody believes this can be as speedy
as it turns out to be without loss of generality, but, the
proof of the pudding being in the eating, I can but invite
interested parties to have a look at thinkdesign's new
release 6 (www.think3.com) -- all of the UI (G, speech, &c)
is based on the new 'rich event manager', as is some part of
the internals' object-model exposure.  The simplest caching
techniques in the event-manager turn out to be enough to
practically avoid overhead in the simple (and by far most
frequent) cases.  Who knows, maybe one day I'll be allowed
to opensource it (one of my fondest dreams)...!


Back to the general issues...: the kind of dynamism we're
considering here may not be really warranted in production
applications *unless* one needs a lot of dynamic, flexible
configurability in one's program (including 3rd-party
plug-ins, etc); however, I think that such 'needs' are
becoming more and more common.

The more dynamic things get, the less, I believe, a
purely class-based object model is appropriate -- but
that is a separate issue, related to HOW one meets such
needs, rather than to the facts that the needs emerge.

"Events rule" -- or, at least, that is my current opinion.
It _would_ be great if Python had better support for them,
at least on a par with Tcl's...


Alex





From carlhiga at yahoo.com  Wed Jan 10 17:38:25 2001
From: carlhiga at yahoo.com (carlhiga at yahoo.com)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 22:38:25 -0000
Subject: compiling .cgi files
In-Reply-To: <3A5CCB5B.547F92FA@bigfoot.de>
Message-ID: <93io91+qmi6@eGroups.com>

Thanks, 

That sounds like the way to go. I'll give it a try. Either that or 
I'll have to negotiate with the hosting ISP to turn on the 'py'/'pyc' 
postfix for cgi's. Not sure if they'll go for that.

--- In python-list at egroups.com, Gerhard H?ring 
<gerhard.nospam at b...> 
wrote:
> As a quick hack, you could write a wrapper script like this:
> 
> wrap.cgi:
> #!/bin/sh
> python realscript.pyc
> 
> I can't think of any other way, apart from hacking the Python source
> itself.
> 
> Gerhard




From phd at phd.pp.ru  Wed Jan 31 11:36:08 2001
From: phd at phd.pp.ru (Oleg Broytmann)
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 19:36:08 +0300 (MSK)
Subject: Date-time class
In-Reply-To: <95982i$bta$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0101311935290.1881-100000@fep132.fep.ru>

On Wed, 31 Jan 2001 psalvan at my-deja.com wrote:
> I need a simple and practical DateTime class....

   Search the Net for the best module in this class called mxDateTime!

Oleg.
----
     Oleg Broytmann            http://phd.pp.ru/            phd at phd.pp.ru
           Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN.




From sylvieb at icestormfx.com  Mon Jan 29 10:59:56 2001
From: sylvieb at icestormfx.com (Sylvie Bruneau)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 10:59:56 -0500
Subject: Python2.0 and Pmw 0.8.4 counter problem
References: <3A71D728.EE4B9F03@icestormfx.com> <PVmc6.8815$W94.473070@nnrp4.clara.net>
Message-ID: <3A75937B.14C8D022@icestormfx.com>


Thank you !!  Now it works well.  But why the Pmw team doesn't make the
modification in their last version ?  Anyway.  Do you know if there are other
modifications like this one that as to be done to make sure that all the Pmw widgets
works fine ?

Thanks again...



Richard Townsend wrote:

> >     We used Python1.5 with Pmw 0.8.3 to develop an in-house application.
> For some
> > reasons, we changed to Python2.0 and we decided to use the new Pmw version
> (
> > 0.8.4 ).  In our application, we have a Pmw.Counter of integers and it
> doesn't work
> > anymore.  The behaviour is strange :  if we type a new integer in the
> entry field,
> > everything is fine.  But using the arrows ( left or right, up or down )
> just clean
> > the entry field, without updating its content.  I try the demos in the Pmw
> > distributions and they don't work either.  We installed Python1.6 with Pmw
> 0.8.3, and
> > it still doesn't work !!!  I tried all the other types of counters and
> they all work
> > fine, but the integer.
> >
> >     Anybody has a suggestion ?
> >
>
> I posted the same question a few months ago and got the following solution
> from Roberto Amorim
>
> > Hi, to correct it is simple. You'll have to edit PmwCounter.py. Here it
> > is:
> >
> > - Find the function called _changeNumber() (line 273)
> > - On line 279 there's the return statement for this function. Change it
> > to return str(value) (and not return str(value)[:-1])
> >
> > That ocurred because str(long) on Python 2.0 doesn't return a number
> > with L on the end like Python 1.5.2 did.
> >
>
> regards,
> Richard Townsend

--
/=-/=-/=-/=-/=-/=-/=-/=-/=-/=-/=-/=-/=-/=-/=-/=-/=-/=-/=-/=-/
Sylvie Bruneau ( sylvieb at icestormfx.com ) Tel: (514) 527-3963
Software Developer, IceStorm Digital.     Fax: (514) 527-5165
2595 Place Chasse, Montreal, Quebec, H1Y 2C3.

Where would you have gone today if Window's hadn't crashed?


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From aahz at panix.com  Mon Jan  1 20:34:14 2001
From: aahz at panix.com (Aahz Maruch)
Date: 1 Jan 2001 17:34:14 -0800
Subject: module question
References: <3A5118AB.BDE840D5@uniserve.com>
Message-ID: <92rb6m$92$1@panix2.panix.com>

In article <3A5118AB.BDE840D5 at uniserve.com>,
Bob van der Poel  <bvdpoel at uniserve.com> wrote:
>
>In my main program I start off with a
>
>	from Tkinter import *
>	from edit import Edit
>
>Now, in the main program I call 'Edit', but it fails. Seems that I have
>to insert a 'from Tkinter import *' in 'Edit' as well. So, does this
>mean that each and every module needs to re-import all the 'global-type'
>stuff? I suppose this aids in keeping data private, etc. but must add a
>lot of overhead at the same time. Maybe I should keep my monolithic
>program structure?

If your edit module accesses Tkinter functionality, it does need the
"from Tkinter import *".  However, it does not add much in the way of
overhead to import the same module into multiple user modules.
(Consider how often you have to "import string", for exmaple.)

>Now, to complicate my understanding even more...if I declare a variable
>in the 'main' module or program how do I access it from imported modules?
>For example, I might have something like:
>
>	versionNumber = 1.4
>
>in the mainline. Now, a module (and I guess it might be deeply
>nested), wants to find out what version is running. I just tried a
>few variations of 'global', but nothing seems to work. Passing this
>variable around to everyone who might need it gets real old, real
>fast...so I'm thinking I'm not understanding something!

Ordinarily I'd recommend against this, but this seems like it might be
an appropriate use.  In your edit module, do this:

import __main__
print __main__.versionNumber


OTOH, that's such a horrid kludge that what you *really* should do is
have a config module of some sort where you store the version number and
import *that* into all your modules (including main).
-- 
                      --- Aahz (Copyright 2000 by aahz at pobox.com)

Androgynous poly kinky vanilla queer het    <*>     http://www.rahul.net/aahz/
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6

Tenth Virtual Anniversary: 364 days and counting


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Thu Jan  4 16:42:04 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 22:42:04 +0100
Subject: why no "do : until"?
References: <92jj3j$ff7$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <slrn94shbe.150.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <X8s36.2731$Qb7.305339@newsb.telia.net> <slrn94smds.150.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <FOt36.17$vd1.2224@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com> <slrn94t1vj.150.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <3A4E95FD.D6C737A7@engcorp.com> <slrn94tqkh.150.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <tpr46.7782$4c.597534@ruti.visi.com> <slrn954h6p.rgv.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <3A52AD6A.62D043A2@engcorp.com> <3A534367.36B1FD18@uswest.net> <slrn957j19.go.amk@207-172-36-81.s81.tnt6.ann.va.dialup.rcn.com> <3A53F4B1.6227D241@uswest.net> <931gf302dsi@news2.newsguy.com> <3A54B6BA.F4550C96@uswest.net>
Message-ID: <932r3e010bd@news1.newsguy.com>

Bjorn Pettersen" <pbjorn at uswest.net> wrote in message
news:3A54B6BA.F4550C96 at uswest.net...
    [snip]
> > I *WOULD* mind, *A LOT*, if, rather than regularizing syntax for the
> > general form of loop, Python were to add other special-cases with
> > their own syntax variations.  *SIMPLICITY*!  *ONE* general loop form
>
> I guess this is where our opinions differ. I'm of the school of "make the
> general case easy, but make the common case trivial". This means I'm
strongly
> in favor of adding special cases for often used looping constructs. I'm
_not_

No issue with that -- it's just a matter of defining how 'often' must
'often'
be to warrant complicating the language. "for" is a special case, but as
it's
used for roughly 50% of the loops (depending on style), I'm happy it's
singled out in the language.  THAT is special enough for me:-).

> probably argue for special syntax for the Pythonic "for i in
> range(len(sequence))"... (perhaps "for i in 1..10" or perhaps a special
form of
> list comprehensions "for i in [1..10 by 2]" <wink>)

Surely, if a special syntax existed for what's now written as "range(1,10)",
it would be absurd to restrict it to being used in for loops -- why add
rules
(complication) to _diminish_ expressiveness?  I know that a PEP on such
a proposal was reently rejected, but I don't know why.


Alex





From paulp at ActiveState.com  Sat Jan  6 14:43:06 2001
From: paulp at ActiveState.com (Paul Prescod)
Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2001 11:43:06 -0800
Subject: Speed of Python vs. Perl
References: <t5eojolijv1e58@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <3A57754A.318C1F74@ActiveState.com>

AndroidMonkey wrote:
> 
> In the last Maximum Linux magazine, there was an article about using Perl
> for a car MP3 player.  It got me wondering - What's the speed of Python like
> compared to Perl? I've never used Perl before, so I hope someone could
> answer my question here. Thanks  -vm

What's the relationship between performance and suitability for a car
MP3 player? I'd think even something as slow as JavaScript would be
applicable for that task. There is already a car MP3 player written in
Python! The company that did it was bought by S3.

http://www2.linuxjournal.com/lj-issues/issue63/3420.html

 Paul



From rcstadheim at scarabweb.com  Sat Jan 20 10:14:22 2001
From: rcstadheim at scarabweb.com (RCS)
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 16:14:22 +0100
Subject: SV: wyPython
References: <Mk9a6.3589$3T2.181641@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <uyia6.12596$wt2.142306@news1.oke.nextra.no>

In my opinion wxPython is the best GUI toolkit for Python today, BUT I'm not
using it.

The reason for this is that I'm consistently (I have tried several of the
latest downloads) getting memory leaks, so that the machines I've tested it
on, crashes due to memory problems.

I must add that I have only used it on Windows 98 machines, and that
apparently this problem does not exists on Windows NT.

I submitted this problem to the developers, but is seems they did not detect
this problem, and no one else have reported this ( on this newsgroup ) , so
I do not really know what it is.........

Other than this, if you do not experience this problem, go for
it....................

Faster than Tcl/Tk,
Better organization of the layout than Tcl/Tk,
etc

RCS

Doug Farrell <dfarrell01 at earthlink.net> skrev i
meldingsnyheter:Mk9a6.3589$3T2.181641 at newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
> Hi,
>
> I'd like to hear what people think of wyPython and any experience they've
> had with it, in particular as to how it compares to useing other GUI
tookits
> like Tcl/Tk for instance.
>
> Thanks,
> Doug
>
>




From fredrik at effbot.org  Tue Jan 23 02:45:18 2001
From: fredrik at effbot.org (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 07:45:18 GMT
Subject: How do I know all thrown exceptions of a function?
References: <g3lb49.73s.ln@127.0.0.1> <94d93h$55d$1@troll.powertech.no> <mailman.980059223.25947.python-list@python.org> <Qeya6.7932$AH6.1260668@newsc.telia.net> <3A6B24F0.EA164698@gte.net> <94icr2$6kv$1@animus.fel.iae.nl> <3A6CDBDA.C3120F98@gte.net> <94ipci$afo$1@animus.fel.iae.nl> <3A6CFD8E.BD473DFD@gte.net>
Message-ID: <iEab6.8765$Qb7.1233360@newsb.telia.net>

Steve Williams wrote
> > you should use
> >
> >      import somelib
>
> Well, yes.  But that brings in all the other cruft in somelib, when we just
> wanted somefunc.

No, it doesn't.  "import" is not the same thing as C's "include"
statement.  The above statement brings in "somelib", and no-
thing else.

I think you need to read up on how imports work, before
proceeding.

Start here:

    http://effbot.org/guides/import-confusion.htm

and then read the relevant portions of the standard docs.

> We could also use
>
>     from somelib import *

As long as we're talking imports, that's about as far from
"import somelib" as anything can get.

> Now we are getting dangerously close to saying something like "don't ever use
>
>     from somelib import somefunc
>
> because we don't know the exceptions or how the exceptions are defined."

No, the rule is "don't ever use from-import if you don't know what
you're doing".

Cheers /F




From loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de  Sat Jan 20 19:04:11 2001
From: loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de (Martin von Loewis)
Date: 21 Jan 2001 01:04:11 +0100
Subject: How do I know all thrown exceptions of a function?
References: <g3lb49.73s.ln@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <p6qbst1py84.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>

gradha at iname.com writes:

> However, how can I know the built-in exceptions a function my throw?

I'd say this is under-documented. If you can contribute documentation
listing exceptions for these functions, that would be much
appreciated (submit patches to sourceforge.net/projects/python).

Normally, it should be clear what exceptions can be thrown by looking
at the parameters and what the function does. It still may throw
non-intuitive exceptions, which is then either a bug or an
undocumented feature :-(

Regards,
Martin





From nas at arctrix.com  Fri Jan 26 07:50:52 2001
From: nas at arctrix.com (Neil Schemenauer)
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 04:50:52 -0800
Subject: Python vs Ruby
In-Reply-To: <p6qpuhatejn.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>; from loewis@informatik.hu-berlin.de on Fri, Jan 26, 2001 at 06:21:32PM +0100
References: <94mdkd$222e$1@news.adamastor.ac.za> <p6qwvbjtr97.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de> <87puhbndn5.fsf@hoyogw.netlab.co.jp> <p6qpuhatejn.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <20010126045052.A4684@glacier.fnational.com>

[Martin von Loewis on the Ruby GC]
> So I shall find some time to study its weaknesses :-)

The Python FAQ has some good information on why Python uses
reference counting.  RC gives good finalization semantics, plays
nicely with other memory managers, and is very portable.

RC also works quite well with data caches and VM managers.  Using
the Boehm-Demers GC with Python and disabling reference counting
slows the interpreter down by a significant amount.

  Neil



From zope at thewebsons.com  Sat Jan 27 10:07:03 2001
From: zope at thewebsons.com (Ben Ocean)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 07:07:03 -0800
Subject: Problems with Install
In-Reply-To: <20010127073304.A6783@bigskytel.com>
References: <5.0.0.25.0.20010127045146.00a42dc0@thewebsons.com>
 <5.0.0.25.0.20010126083542.009e3290@mail.earthlink.net>
 <5.0.0.25.0.20010126083542.009e3290@mail.earthlink.net>
 <20010126133015.B7309@harmony.cs.rit.edu>
 <5.0.0.25.0.20010127045146.00a42dc0@thewebsons.com>
Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.0.20010127070430.00a5a920@thewebsons.com>

At 07:33 AM 1/27/2001 -0700, you wrote:
>* Ben Ocean <zope at thewebsons.com>:
>
>[...]
> > I've run into this error while running *make*. D said it was due to an
> > error in the myreadline.o So I re-ran make and copied what printed to
> > screen. The myreadline.o stuff doesn't appear until the last few lines:
> >
> > In file included from /usr/include/errno.h:36,
> >                   from ../Include/Python.h:59,
> >                   from myreadline.c:42:
> > /usr/include/bits/errno.h:25: linux/errno.h: No such file or directory
> > make[1]: *** [myreadline.o] Error 1
> > make[1]: Leaving directory `/apache/vhosts/Python-1.5.2/Parser'
> > make: *** [Parser] Error 2
>
>I have encountered this type of error (No such file or directory).
>
>First check if /usr/include/linux/errno.h exists. If it doesn't, maybe you
>need to install the Linux kernel headers. Perhaps something like
>kernel-headers*.rpm?

It exists, but not with *linux* in the path


>if it *does* exist, you could try editing line 25 /usr/include/bits/errno.h
>changing it from
>
># include linux/errno.h
>
>to
>
># include <linux/errno.h>

I couldn't find that statement. What I found was

# include <bits/errno.h>

which I changed every way I could (with *linux* without brackets, etc.). No 
luck. Same error.


> > Just for fun I tried installing an rpm as you mentioned. The strangest
> > thing happened. When I got to the actual installation command, the darn
> > thing just vanished into thin air! running a whereis for python turns up
> > *nothing*! Oh, geez, what'd I do wrong?
>
>Maybe it installed python in a place that is off your path.

But I ran a *whereis python* and came up empty-handed! I appreciate any 
more help you can give me.
BenO




From kare at speech.kth.se  Fri Jan  5 09:40:46 2001
From: kare at speech.kth.se (Kare Sjolander)
Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 15:40:46 +0100
Subject: using snack to eat an mp3 stream
References: <3a555fe8.47773420@news.interchange.ubc.ca>
Message-ID: <3A55DCEE.71733F2E@speech.kth.se>

Unfortunately this is not possible using Snack and Python currently. I'm
working on a more native version of Snack for Python which will make such
functionality possible.

If you can resort to Tcl for this task the following snippet is a
complete audio server.
It even plays multiple simultaneous mp3 streams.

proc Cmd {sock args} {
  set snd [snack::sound -channel $sock]
  $snd play -command "[list close $sock];$snd destroy"
}
socket -server Cmd 23654

Kare


Kris Botha wrote:

> Has anyone ever tried this? I know that snack is able to open files
> from hard-drive or through streams, using the channel parameter in
> snack. Unforunately, I've found no documentation on this sort of thing
> anywhere. I'm trying to play audio files through a tcp/ip connection
> using snack.. Can anyone point me in the right direction?
>
> Thanks,
>
> ~~====----..----====~~
>         Kris Botha



From ehagemann at home.com  Thu Jan  4 20:42:47 2001
From: ehagemann at home.com (Eric Hagemann)
Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 01:42:47 GMT
Subject: socket block ????
Message-ID: <rE956.234587$RP.45612789@news1.rdc1.md.home.com>

Making use of the socket module, the library manual indicates that the
default behavior of the module is to block on a read or a write.  But when
using socket.recv(buf) some times it returns before reading len(buf) bytes.

I have tried seting the blocking flag explicitly via socket.setblocking()
with the same result

Beazley's book indicates a flag parameter of MSG_WAITALL which will cause
the routine to wait for len(buf) bytes, but that variable is not defined in
the socket module nor on the recv(2) manual page as suggested by the Python
Lib Docs.

Also I do not see any exceptions rased when this behavior occurs


Anybody seen this behavior ?

Cheers
Eric





From bill at libc.org  Fri Jan 26 09:30:37 2001
From: bill at libc.org (Bill Anderson)
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 21:30:37 +0700
Subject: curses, python20/152, RH70/62, postgresql problems
References: <94731d$9j4$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <slrn96fd9n.52f.amk@207-172-36-33.s33.tnt6.ann.va.dialup.rcn.com> <mailman.979923026.29932.python-list@python.org> <3A718036.13B5B3BF@boi.hp.com>
Message-ID: <5asc6.385$l8.53383@news03.micron.net>

In article <3A718036.13B5B3BF at boi.hp.com>, "Bill Anderson"
<anderson at boi.hp.com> wrote:

...

>> Could you provide some more details on the glibc problem?  I used to
>> have RH7 and didn't find anything obviously wrong in the headers, so I
>> assumed it was the compiler that wasn't doing the comparison correctly.
>>  I solved the problem by manually editing the header (
>> <bits/xopen_lim.h> ).  I have since upgraded to Debian, but am still
>> curious.
>> 
>> Basically, for RH7 users : you can't use any rpms that people provide.
> 
> Basically, you are wrong.

Hmm upon reading this when I got home, it sounds a bit unfriendly. Just
thought I'd pop in and mention it wasn't intended in that way. :)


Bill Anderson


From financejobny at yahoo.com  Tue Jan  2 07:49:06 2001
From: financejobny at yahoo.com (Kurt Riedel)
Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2001 04:49:06 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Financial programming position in Manhattan
Message-ID: <20010102124906.1365.qmail@web11408.mail.yahoo.com>

A financial trading firm in midtown Manhattan seeks to
hire a quality systems/applications programmer in
Python and C/C++. The primary job is to develop tools
to run the trading system in real time. The programmer
would have some experience in real time systems, data
acquisition, and simple database and spreadsheet
development.

No financial experience is necessary. Compensation is
competitive and weighted towards a significant  
annual bonus.

Applicants should send an e-mail describing their
programming experience to financejobNY at yahoo.com


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online!
http://photos.yahoo.com/



From aahz at panix.com  Mon Jan  8 16:08:34 2001
From: aahz at panix.com (Aahz Maruch)
Date: 8 Jan 2001 13:08:34 -0800
Subject: why no "do : until"?
References: <mailman.978660367.22251.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <93da8i$1lp$1@panix2.panix.com>

In article <mailman.978660367.22251.python-list at python.org>,
Tim Peters <tim.one at home.com> wrote:
>
>A study I did at the time said that about 15% of all "for" loops in Python
>code were of the form
>
>    for i in range(len(a)):
>
>and that's both an obscure and inefficient way to spell the underlying idea.

Huh.  I've always tended to do this instead:

i = 0
for tmp in a:
    ...
    i += 1
-- 
                      --- Aahz (Copyright 2001 by aahz at pobox.com)

Androgynous poly kinky vanilla queer het    <*>     http://www.rahul.net/aahz/
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6

Sometimes, you're not just out of left field, you're coming in all the
way from outer space.  --Aahz


From dag at orion.no  Mon Jan 22 03:18:33 2001
From: dag at orion.no (Dag Sunde)
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 08:18:33 GMT
Subject: What does Python do
References: <94gmeu$4fc$1@sooner.brightok.net>
Message-ID: <t1Sa6.4569$Yv.544288@juliett.dax.net>

I almost said everything, but devicedrivers might
be a little hairy for Python... ;-)

Out lates app written in Python was for a stock-exchange.
It connects to a couple of CORBA-servers and extract all
the bids, asks and trades on all products. It then calculates
the official closing-prices for the Exchange, and sends it
out on a live TCP/IP feed when trading ends.

Dag.



"Dead Dan" <danielhill at brightok.net> wrote in message
news:94gmeu$4fc$1 at sooner.brightok.net...
> What kinds of programs can you make with Python. Does anyone have some
> examples.
>
> Dan
>
>




From gregj at pobox.com  Tue Jan 23 23:30:40 2001
From: gregj at pobox.com (Greg Jorgensen)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 04:30:40 GMT
Subject: Count and replacing strings a texfile
References: <94i9ft$apq$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <94llph$8dl$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

Try this:

----
# read all text from the file
f = open(filename, "r")
s = f.read()
f.close()

# split text into a list at every occurence of %id%
t = s.split("%id%")
n = len(t)      # number of list elements
result = s[0]   # start with first element in list
# iterate over list, appending counter and next text chunk
for i in range(1,n):
        result += str(i) + s[i]

print "%s occurences replaced" % (n-1)
print result
----

--
Greg Jorgensen
Portland, Oregon, USA
gregj at pobox.com


In article <94i9ft$apq$1 at nnrp1.deja.com>,
  puckoh at my-deja.com wrote:
> Hello.
>
> This is a probably basic question.
> I have a textfile about 120k large, and there is several strings in it
> which I must replace.
> The strings are named "%id%" and the number of strings are unknown.
>
> First, I need to count them all.
> Then I must replace every one of them with a incrementing number.
> Like the first %id% is replaced with 1, the second with 2 etc.
>
> I've been told that this is a perfect job for Perl, but I don't
> understand Perl.
> I merely understand Python. Well, I think I got the basics anyway. :)
>
> Anyone care to help me out for a minute to suggest what to do?
> Any pointers to examples are alot appreciated.
>
> Thanks.
>
> /Andreas
>
> Sent via Deja.com
> http://www.deja.com/
>


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From hzhu at users.sourceforge.net  Sun Jan  7 00:01:12 2001
From: hzhu at users.sourceforge.net (Huaiyu Zhu)
Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2001 05:01:12 GMT
Subject: Iterating over multiple lists (a newbie question)
References: <3a539f3a.445366109@localhost> <3a54d0c5.523585234@localhost>
Message-ID: <slrn95ftua.1bc.hzhu@rock.localdomain>

On Thu, 04 Jan 2001 19:55:43 GMT, Victor Muslin <victor at prodigy.net> wrote:
>Thank you all for the insights. Here is another variation on the them,
>though this involves a single list.
>
>Suppose I want to parse command line arguments (never mind getops,
>since this could be some other situation not involving command line
>arguments). Here is how I could possibly parse command line arguments
>for command: "myprog -port 10 -debug":
>
>	import sys
>	debug = port = 0
>	i = 1                                      # ugly
>	while i < len(sys.argv):
>	    if sys.argv[i] == '-debug':
>	        debug=1
>	    elif sys.argv[i] == '-port':
>	        i = i + 1                          # ugly!
>	        if i < len(sys.argv):           # very ugly!
>	            port = int(sys.argv[i])
>	    i = i + 1                              # quite ugly
>
>Pretty ugly, huh? Is there a more elegant way?

I think you are looking for something like the following hyperthetical code

for x in sys.argv:
    if x == '-debug':
        debug = 1
    elif x == '-port':
        next x         # This does not exist now
        port = int(x)

Can this syntax be added to Python?  My take is that it would be difficult
to design a good syntax, but not difficult to implement. This is because the
"next x" must associate the internal loop counter (which is your i) with the
name x.  But what if there are several for loops?  Limiting this to a single
loop is too restrictive.  Maybe someone can come up with a better syntax.

An alternative approach would be to expose the loop counter and let user do
whatever with the loop counter, but that might be too free.

Huaiyu




From mal at lemburg.com  Mon Jan 29 07:24:15 2001
From: mal at lemburg.com (M.-A. Lemburg)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 13:24:15 +0100
Subject: [Python-Dev] Re: Python 2.1 slower than 2.0
References: <mailman.980616572.26954.python-list@python.org> <200101271858.NAA04898@mira.erols.com>
Message-ID: <3A7560EF.39D6CF@lemburg.com>

Here the results of my micro benckmark pybench 0.7:

PYBENCH 0.7

Benchmark: /home/lemburg/tmp/pybench-2.1a1.pyb (rounds=10, warp=20)

Tests:                              per run    per oper.  diff *
------------------------------------------------------------------------
          BuiltinFunctionCalls:    1102.30 ms    8.65 us   +7.56%
           BuiltinMethodLookup:     966.75 ms    1.84 us   +4.56%
                 ConcatStrings:    1198.55 ms    7.99 us  +11.63%
                 ConcatUnicode:    1835.60 ms   12.24 us  +19.29%
               CreateInstances:    1556.40 ms   37.06 us   +2.49%
       CreateStringsWithConcat:    1396.70 ms    6.98 us   +5.44%
       CreateUnicodeWithConcat:    1895.80 ms    9.48 us  +31.61%
                  DictCreation:    1760.50 ms   11.74 us   +2.43%
                      ForLoops:    1426.90 ms  142.69 us   -7.51%
                    IfThenElse:    1155.25 ms    1.71 us   -6.24%
                   ListSlicing:     555.40 ms  158.69 us   -4.14%
                NestedForLoops:     784.55 ms    2.24 us   -6.33%
          NormalClassAttribute:    1052.80 ms    1.75 us  -10.42%
       NormalInstanceAttribute:    1053.80 ms    1.76 us   +0.89%
           PythonFunctionCalls:    1127.50 ms    6.83 us  +12.56%
             PythonMethodCalls:     909.10 ms   12.12 us   +9.70%
                     Recursion:     942.40 ms   75.39 us  +23.74%
                  SecondImport:     924.20 ms   36.97 us   +3.98%
           SecondPackageImport:     951.10 ms   38.04 us   +6.16%
         SecondSubmoduleImport:    1211.30 ms   48.45 us   +7.69%
       SimpleComplexArithmetic:    1635.30 ms    7.43 us   +5.58%
        SimpleDictManipulation:     963.35 ms    3.21 us   -0.57%
         SimpleFloatArithmetic:     877.00 ms    1.59 us   -2.92%
      SimpleIntFloatArithmetic:     851.10 ms    1.29 us   -5.89%
       SimpleIntegerArithmetic:     850.05 ms    1.29 us   -6.41%
        SimpleListManipulation:    1168.50 ms    4.33 us   +8.14%
          SimpleLongArithmetic:    1231.15 ms    7.46 us   +1.52%
                    SmallLists:    2153.35 ms    8.44 us  +10.77%
                   SmallTuples:    1314.65 ms    5.48 us   +3.80%
         SpecialClassAttribute:    1050.80 ms    1.75 us   +1.48%
      SpecialInstanceAttribute:    1248.75 ms    2.08 us   -2.32%
                StringMappings:    1702.60 ms   13.51 us  +19.69%
              StringPredicates:    1024.25 ms    3.66 us  -25.49%
                 StringSlicing:    1093.35 ms    6.25 us   +4.35%
                     TryExcept:    1584.85 ms    1.06 us  -10.90%
                TryRaiseExcept:    1239.50 ms   82.63 us   +4.64%
                  TupleSlicing:     983.00 ms    9.36 us   +3.36%
               UnicodeMappings:    1631.65 ms   90.65 us  +42.76%
             UnicodePredicates:    1762.10 ms    7.83 us  +15.99%
             UnicodeProperties:    1410.80 ms    7.05 us  +19.57%
                UnicodeSlicing:    1366.20 ms    7.81 us  +19.23%
------------------------------------------------------------------------
            Average round time:   58001.00 ms              +3.30%

*) measured against: /home/lemburg/tmp/pybench-2.0.pyb (rounds=10, warp=20)

The benchmark is available here in case someone wants to verify
the results on different platforms:

	http://www.lemburg.com/python/pybench-0.7.zip

The above tests were done on a Linux 2.2 system, AMD K6 233MHz. 
The figures shown compare CVS Python (2.1a1) against stock
Python 2.0. 

As you can see, Python function calls have suffered
a lot for some reason. Unicode mappings and other Unicode database
related methods show the effect of the compression of the Unicode
database -- a clear space/speed tradeoff. 

I can't really explain why Unicode concatenation has had a 
slowdown -- perhaps the new coercion logic has something to
do with this ?!

On the nice side: attribute lookups are faster; probably due to
the string key optimizations in the dictionary implementation.
Loops and exceptions are also a tad faster.

-- 
Marc-Andre Lemburg
______________________________________________________________________
Company:                                        http://www.egenix.com/
Consulting:                                    http://www.lemburg.com/
Python Pages:                           http://www.lemburg.com/python/



From DavidLNoSpammy at raqia.com  Thu Jan 11 14:14:01 2001
From: DavidLNoSpammy at raqia.com (David Lees)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 14:14:01 -0500
Subject: Looking for Doug Hellmann - daVinci.py author
Message-ID: <3A5E05F9.253D2E62@raqia.com>

I am trying to locate Doug Hellmann who wrote a Python code for
generating input to the graph display package daVinci.  The e-mail on
his code (from January 1998) is doughellmann at mindspring.com , but it is
now defunct.  If anyone knows him could you pass on my e-mail address
which is:

davidl at raqia.com

Thanks,

David Lees


From fredrik at effbot.org  Fri Jan 19 05:01:28 2001
From: fredrik at effbot.org (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 10:01:28 GMT
Subject: Debugging
References: <979896042.23819.1.nnrp-10.c3ad12d2@news.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: <YfU96.7214$Qb7.1076674@newsb.telia.net>

"Toby" <t.harris at robinsons.co.uk> wrote:
> Is it possible to debug an Python 2.0 extension (a DLL) written in MSVC++
> 6.0 ? If so how ?

as you would debug any other DLL?  (cannot remember
doing anything special...)

> I presume I would need a debug version of Python as
> well...

if you have the Python sources and MSVC, you can build
a debug version in a couple of minutes...  (you'll find the
project files in the pcbuild subdirectory).

Cheers /F




From thomas at xs4all.net  Sat Jan 27 11:00:31 2001
From: thomas at xs4all.net (Thomas Wouters)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 17:00:31 +0100
Subject: . Python 2.1 function attributes
In-Reply-To: <$5A+ZwAGjtc6EwE0@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>; from robin@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk on Sat, Jan 27, 2001 at 02:18:46PM +0000
References: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0101270135190.7677-100000@y.glue.umd.edu> <mailman.980593892.725.python-list@python.org> <$5A+ZwAGjtc6EwE0@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <20010127170031.P962@xs4all.nl>

On Sat, Jan 27, 2001 at 02:18:46PM +0000, Robin Becker wrote:
> In article <mailman.980593892.725.python-list at python.org>, Tim Peters
> <tim.one at home.com> writes
> ....
> >Barry also added code to Python 2.1 to let you write, e.g.,
> >
> >    def f() >> x:
> >        x = 1
> >        y = 2
> >
> >as a short way to spell "whatever the value of x is at the end of the
> >function, return that".  I'm sure you'll agree that's much cleaner than the
> >clumsy
> >
> >    def f():
> >        x = 1
> >        y = 2
> >        return x
> >
> >people suffer with today.
> >
> ....
> mmmhhhh :( what happens with
> 
> def f() >> x:
>         return 1
> 
> 
> def f() >> x:
>         y=2
>         return y
> 
> seems to me that having multiple ways of doing return is a bad idea

You forgot to quote the clue:

> > hoping-a-truly-bad-idea-adds-some-perspective<wink>-ly y'rs  - tim

Tim wasn't serious, the syntax hasn't even been proposed. (At least, I
haven't seen the proposal. Then again, maybe Barry did propose it, and all
those mail delays on python-dev were an attempt to get it approved and
checked in before anyone oculd complain :-)

That-was-a-joke-too-in-case-you-wondered-ly y'rs,

-- 
Thomas Wouters <thomas at xs4all.net>

Hi! I'm a .signature virus! copy me into your .signature file to help me spread!



From jpl at global.co.za  Wed Jan 24 06:21:50 2001
From: jpl at global.co.za (James Lockley)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 13:21:50 +0200
Subject: Python vs Ruby
Message-ID: <94mdkd$222e$1@news.adamastor.ac.za>

Just been reading a "Ruby centric" comparison of Ruby vs Python on:
http://helium.ruby-lang.org/en/compar.html

would be interested to hear the Pythonista view....

james




From dsavitsk at e-coli.net  Sat Jan 27 01:10:36 2001
From: dsavitsk at e-coli.net (dsavitsk)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 00:10:36 -0600
Subject: Tkinter : button size
References: <3A722DED.74B41DA1@mega-nerd.com> <aerc6.7548$Ch.1935320@newsrump.sjc.telocity.net> <3A723FD9.5AA0CDB@mega-nerd.com>
Message-ID: <ADtc6.7723$Ch.2057364@newsrump.sjc.telocity.net>

it is probably worth looking at
http://www.pythonware.com/library/tkinter/introduction/index.htm
or at mr. grayson's book about tkinter.  both are excellent references.
ds




From jerryleekeeney at yahoo.com  Fri Jan 26 19:44:22 2001
From: jerryleekeeney at yahoo.com (jerry keeney)
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 16:44:22 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Tkinter: manipulating data in 'entry' widgets.
Message-ID: <20010127004422.18306.qmail@web9601.mail.yahoo.com>

Hopefully this is'nt a repeat of an oft discussed
item:

I have a Tkinter program with 3 entry widgets.  I
would like to take the numbers entered in the first
two, total them and display them in the 3rd (or even
just as a label).

I believe the idea is to capture the entry with a
DoubleVar, but beyond that I'm not sure.  

I have been perusing the various places on the web
discussing Tkinter, and I cannot find that sort of
detail.  Any pointers where I can get this info on the
web??

Thanks

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. 
http://auctions.yahoo.com/



From emile at fenx.com  Sat Jan  6 12:22:59 2001
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2001 09:22:59 -0800
Subject: Pythonian string manipulation.
References: <937if5$r9q$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <937kb7$91hfs$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>

Strings are immutable.  You can extract string slices, but
not assign into them.  IIRC, Marc Lemburg offers text tools
that allow this, but I've not used them.  In normal python,
you must build a new string, and bind the variable to it.


>>> s = 'hello, world'
>>> l = s.split(', ')
>>> l.reverse()
>>> s = ', '.join(l)
>>> s
'world, hello'

HTH,

--

Emile van Sebille
emile at fenx.com
-------------------


<johnvert at my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:937if5$r9q$1 at nnrp1.deja.com...
> Hi,
>
> I was playing around with slices in Python (is that the
correct term?)
> and I tried, in order to switch the words `hello,' and
`world', to do:
>
> s = 'hello, world'
> l = s.find(',')
> s[0:l] = s[l + 1:]
>
> which in theory would seem to work, but I get the error:
>
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
> TypeError: object doesn't support slice assignment
>
> my two questions are: why isn't this allowed, and what is
the Pythonian
> way of doing this?
>
> Thanks,
>  -- John
>
>
> Sent via Deja.com
> http://www.deja.com/




From grante at visi.com  Fri Jan 26 16:58:27 2001
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 21:58:27 GMT
Subject: SourceForge problems
References: <mailman.980510689.2616.python-list@python.org> <lmlc6.774$27.199390@ruti.visi.com> <mailman.980545112.10091.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7qmc6.786$27.203609@ruti.visi.com>

In article <mailman.980545112.10091.python-list at python.org>, Thomas Wouters wrote:

>> >don't-even-try-discussing-hot-steaming-faggots<wink>-ly y'rs - tim
>
>> You're probably not talking about cigarettes or firewood, so
>> I'm guessing it's some sort of sausage. But English food is
>> best left undiscussed if not uneaten.  ;)
>
>As opposed to the wonderful american inventions of, uuhmm... the hotdog ? 

:)

I don't generally eat those either.  

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  Do you need
                                  at               any MOUTH-TO-MOUTH
                               visi.com            resuscitation?


From tanzer at swing.co.at  Tue Jan 23 03:11:23 2001
From: tanzer at swing.co.at (Christian Tanzer)
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 09:11:23 +0100
Subject: How do I know all thrown exceptions of a function? 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "22 Jan 2001 22:19:29 GMT."
             <94iblh$klo$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu> 
Message-ID: <m14KyXz-000wcBC@swing.co.at>

Donn Cave <donn at u.washington.edu> wrote :

> Quoth Randall Hopper <aa8vb at yahoo.com>:
> | Fredrik Lundh:
> || Sean Reifschneider wrote:
> ||> Yeah, I suppose so.  I don't think you should *HAVE* to review the code of
> ||> the libraries you call, AND *EVERYTHING* that *THEY* call.  It's not an
> ||> effective use of my time...
> ||
> || yeah, and what's worse, having to *TEST* your code before
> || shipping just sucks...
> |
> | Like Steve, I think this is a bit too harsh.  What exceptions a public API
> | can throw is part of its interface, just like parameters and return values.

It is harsh. And testing certainly isn't an effective way of
finding out what exceptions can occur.

> | Groveling through library code for rare exception conditions (initially,
> | and for each dependency version update) isn't a productive use of a
> | developer's time.
> 
> Certainly not, and to me exception handling feels like the most
> unfinished part of Python.  Unfortunately I don't have any real
> ideas about it, I just find exception handling relatively error
> prone when it should be the opposite.

It's not the exception handling per se. IMHO, one of the problems is
that the exception hierarchy does not make any distinction between
exceptions indicating errors and exceptions indicating things like
KeyboardInterrupt or SystemExit which aren't errors.

If an application wants to avoid dying even in the presence of bugs it
must contain a catch-all clause somewhere. Yet, it certainly doesn't
want to catch SystemExit there, and it might not want to catch
KeyboardInterrupt either. This leads to code like:

    try :
        ...
    except (SystemExit, KeyboardInterrupt), exc :
        raise exc
    except :
        ...

Yuck.

BTW, silently dropping the exception in the catch-all handler is of
course not recommended.

-- 
Christian Tanzer                                         tanzer at swing.co.at
Glasauergasse 32                                       Tel: +43 1 876 62 36
A-1130 Vienna, Austria                                 Fax: +43 1 877 66 92




From dag at orion.no  Wed Jan 24 09:36:33 2001
From: dag at orion.no (Dag Sunde)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 14:36:33 GMT
Subject: usage on the time module(newbie)
References: <945neg$72d$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <RLBb6.5375$Yv.612140@juliett.dax.net>

I strongly reccomend you go to the
"Vaults of Parnassus" and pick up "mxDateTime"...

http://www.vex.net/parnassus/apyllo.py/514463245.769244789

Dag


<fimafeng at my-deja.com> wrote in message news:945neg$72d$1 at nnrp1.deja.com...
> Hello:
>
> I'm having difficulty with the syntax for the function strptime
> in the time module
>
> For instance. If I have a variable....
> fred='Mon Jan 15 00:30:24 2001'
>
> what syntax would I use to parse this into a tuple?
> I have tried
> time.strptime(Mon Jan 15 00:30:24 2001[])
> but I receive an error..
>
> I did not see any examples in the documentation.
>
> Any help is greatly appreciated...
> Thanks,
> Chris
> fimafeng at yahoo.com
>
>
> Sent via Deja.com
> http://www.deja.com/




From tim.one at home.com  Wed Jan 10 00:04:17 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 00:04:17 -0500
Subject: mmap (was RE: mxTools (was Re: why no "do : until"?))
In-Reply-To: <slrn95nmcn.ij.amk@207-172-69-8.s262.tnt8.brd.va.dialup.rcn.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCMELCIHAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Paul Prescod]
> I haven't tried this recently but if I remember correctly, the
> problem is: How would I do a regexp match on "Py..n" on a 1-
> gigabyte file with a fixed amount of "lookahead"? Do I have to
> load in chunks at a time and then do the pattern matching across
> "chunk boundaries" myself? ...

[A.M. Kuchling]
> With the mmapfile module, you should be able to mmap the entire
> gigabyte file, and then do an re.search() on the whole thing.
> Performance is then up to _sre and your OS's virtual memory
> algorithms.

That's what I thought, but on Windows I never got it to work -- always ended
up staring at incomprehensible "The parameter is wrong" Windows msgs.

Just figured out why, so will share it.  There's a small bug, and key info
is missing from the docs.

Here's a working example on Windows (Win98SE; last I heard mmap doesn't work
at all on ME, but nobody knows why).  "gafat" is a large file, with one
occurrence of "zzz" at the very end:

import mmap, re, os
fname = "gafat"

size = os.path.getsize(fname)
print "os.path.getsize() says size is", size, "bytes"

f = open(fname, "rb+")
mapper = mmap.mmap(f.fileno(), 0)

print "mmap .size() says size is", mapper.size(), "bytes"

m = re.search("zzz", mapper)
print m.group(0), m.span(0)

Here's a run:

C:\Code\python\dist\src\PCbuild>python mre.py
os.path.getsize() says size is 119800271 bytes
mmap .size() says size is 119800271 bytes
zzz (119800264, 119800267)

C:\Code\python\dist\src\PCbuild>

So that all worked.  Cool!

Notes:

1) Doc needed:  The file *must* be opened for update (r+, w+, rb+ or wb+).
That's because CreateFileMapping is called with PAGE_READWRITE, and that
won't let you increase permissions over the original open mode.  Violating
this yields the baffling "The parameter is wrong" errors from mmap.mmap().

It's unfortunate that the Unix mmap.mmap() takes the "flags" arg before the
"prot" arg, because we could have implemented "prot" for Windows too.

2) Doc needed:  Passing a size of 0 makes the maximum size of the mapping
the actual current size of the file.  Don't know whether that's also true on
Unices; on Windows it's intentional; and it's handy to know so it's worth
documenting.

3) Doc bug:  The docs read as if omitting the optional tagname is different
than supplying a tagname of None.  I don't believe that's true; needs mild
rewording.

4) Code bug:  If a tagname isn't supplied, it looks like the code intended
to follow the probable meaning of the docs (by creating a mapping without a
name), but it actually creates a mapping with a name (an empty string).
I'll check in a fix for that tonight.

mmap-will-never-catch-on-if-it-can't-be-used<wink>-ly y'rs  - tim




From abramsjc at my-deja.com  Fri Jan 12 15:24:04 2001
From: abramsjc at my-deja.com (abramsjc at my-deja.com)
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 20:24:04 GMT
Subject: ASP + SQL Server + Time object problem
Message-ID: <93np4p$lm$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

I'm using Python in ASP, and I have a recordset that returned a
<time object at FFblah> object.

However I can't seem to convert this to an int or float.
If I Responsd.Write it out it comes out correct, '3/31/00',
but internally I can't seem to do anything with it.

And ideas?


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From d.l.dwiggins at computer.org  Wed Jan 24 21:13:58 2001
From: d.l.dwiggins at computer.org (Don Dwiggins)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 02:13:58 GMT
Subject: SVG Tools?
References: <mailman.980089104.18988.python-list@python.org> <94f0qn$ju1$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <wky9w0qsyh.fsf@computer.org>

Greg Landrum writes:
> Piddle includes an SVG canvas in the CVS version
> http://sourceforge.net/projects/piddle/
> and Sping (the new name for piddle) includes the same canvas.  Sping
> is accessible from the piddle pages on sourceforge.

> I'm the author of the SVG canvas for piddle/sping.  It supports static
> SVG, no interaction or fancy filters or anything like that (this is
> consistent with the Piddle Canvas API).  I keep thinking about adding
> interactivity support to the Piddle SVG canvas, but I haven't devoted
> any significant time to it yet (other things always seem to come up).

> I hope this helps,
> -greg

Adobe has a browser plugin that covers quite a lot of the spec (see
www.adobe.com/svg/main.html).  If you could figure out the browser<->plugin
interface (or get some good documentation on it) you could probably cobble
up a wrapper for it.

-- 
Don Dwiggins
Advanced MP Technology
dwig at advancedmp.net


From michael at stroeder.com  Tue Jan 23 13:53:01 2001
From: michael at stroeder.com (Michael =?iso-8859-1?Q?Str=F6der?=)
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 19:53:01 +0100
Subject: news - nntp server
References: <3a6daab8@news.xtml.co.uk> <ku8zo28au3.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>
Message-ID: <3A6DD30D.4D491085@stroeder.com>

Erno Kuusela wrote:
> 
> In article <3a6daab8 at news.xtml.co.uk>, "Nick Trout"
> <nick at videosystem dot co dot uk> writes:
> 
> | I'm trying to set up an NNTP/newsgroup server on an NT4 machine.
> | What is the easiest way to do this please. Can Python help me?!
> 
> unless you mean you want to write a nntp server, probably not
> very much.

Hmm, INN can be configured at compile time for embedding Python
(e.g. authenticator plug-ins etc.).

Ciao, Michael.


From sholden at holdenweb.com  Mon Jan 15 19:23:02 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 19:23:02 -0500
Subject: python compiled to native in less than a year?
References: <mailman.979575676.22737.python-list@python.org> <GqH86.6041$J%.605518@news.flash.net>
Message-ID: <GzM86.5345$J76.45303@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>

"s" <slhath at flash.net> wrote in message
news:GqH86.6041$J%.605518 at news.flash.net...
> I believe that you are mistaken...the IL is NOT MS specific and is not
tied
> to any specific platform or chipset.  Some company should easily be able
to
> take IL and create a compiler that will work on Linux, Unix, Mac, etc.
>
> Scott
>

Yes, of course, Microsoft would never *dream* of building Windows-specific
functionality into their products. Not.

It's been very amusing reading all MS's publicity for .NET.  Everything
which was bad is now good, and old technologies have suddeny become new.
Not to mention that wonderful new language they are offering.  C#? Just say
no.  Furthermore, bad as Visual Basic was, VB.NET is going to be a heck of a
lot worse.

Perhaps Sun will write their own C# compiler and put Solaris-specific
features in it, then Microsoft will sue them and ... no, no, I can't even
think about it!

if-there's-nothing-new-under-the-sun-there's-even-less-new-under-the-windows
-ly y'rs  - steve



From kwoeltje at mail.mcg.edu  Fri Jan 19 21:30:43 2001
From: kwoeltje at mail.mcg.edu (Keith F. Woeltje)
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 02:30:43 GMT
Subject: Neophyte looking for good books on Python
References: <94ak66$dra$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <3A68F8B0.919CD416@mail.mcg.edu>

If you want free, look at the Python web site page listing introductions
( http://www.python.org/doc/Intros.html ). There are a bunch of
tutorials on the web. Most people start with the tutorial that comes
with Python <whisper>although I'm ashamed to admit I have not yet worked
through that--don't tell anyone</whisper>.

I too am in the process of learning Python, and I like books. My
favorite book so far is /The Quick Python Book/ by McDonald. I also
liked /Learning Python/ by Lutz and Ascher. Both books cover the basics,
but their organization and emphasis is different. I've looked at /Sams
Teach Yourself Python in 24 Hours/ by Van Laningham at Borders. It's
organization and content seem OK, but they use relatively small screen
shots to display example program output, and I didn't like that.
Beazley's /Python Essential Reference/ is indeed a great reference. Its
introductory pages might be enough for an ueber-programmer to learn
Python from, but probably not a beginner. For someone completely new to
programming, /Learn to Program Using Python/ by Gauld would be a good
first book, but you would need to follow it up with the tutorial or
another book.

O'Reilly is supposed to release a second edition of /Programming Python/
in March, covering 2.0, so I'd hold off on that particular book if I
were you. No doubt it will be THE book to get once it comes out.

Have fun
>K

galyak wrote:
> 
> I'm looking for good books on Python. I'm a neophyte programmer and I
> have a small understanding of C. I'm looking for good introductory books
> on Python.
> 
> I've heard that "Programming Python by Mark Lutz" is a real treat. Since
> python is an evolving language, is this book to old (1997)? Should i get
> something fresher? I don't know.
> 
> Have a nice day. Thanks.
> 
> --
> galyak
> 
> Sent via Deja.com
> http://www.deja.com/


From quinn at ngwee.ugcs.caltech.edu  Sat Jan 27 01:27:07 2001
From: quinn at ngwee.ugcs.caltech.edu (Quinn Dunkan)
Date: 27 Jan 2001 06:27:07 GMT
Subject: New way to learn Python?
References: <mailman.980518892.12166.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrn974qhr.cod.quinn@ngwee.ugcs.caltech.edu>

>Spent last couple of years building well-known e-commerce sites using
>Open Source code. Used Perl, Python,Tcl/Tk, & Java and had to teach jr.
>programmers a lot about how to program in these languages. Found out
>most effective way was the so-called Socratic method of
>question/answer. So, put together a website  www.codecity.com
>to explore this approach to teaching Open Source. Hope to get some
>feedback/participation from this group especially in contributing
>Python quizzes. Hope this is appropriate.

After messing around for a few minutes I am able to see how I could edit
quizzes or create new quizzes, but I couldn't figure out how to switch
quiz topics.  Perhaps I'm just being a dense newbie, but that would make me
part of your target audience anyway :)

Of course, to actually edit or create a quiz, I'd have to join, which seems a
bit unnecessary.


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Thu Jan 25 12:18:41 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 18:18:41 +0100
Subject: Hack request: rational numbers
References: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0101251759070.28148-100000@kev.ioc.ee>
Message-ID: <94pn5g02jh9@news2.newsguy.com>

"Pearu Peterson" <pearu at cens.ioc.ee> wrote in message
news:Pine.LNX.4.21.0101251759070.28148-100000 at kev.ioc.ee...
    [snip]
> Python. Closest to the above representation I find
>
>     3r/4
>
> that uses similar syntax as in constructing Python complex numbers
> (cf. 3j+4).

What about r('3/4')?  Doesn't seem all that far off.  Or
r(3)/4.  These are easy, and just 2 characters (the parentheses)
away from your dream-syntax.

But there may be something better...

r3/4 would work if your module could have a __getattr__ (and if
you could reserve in your modules all variables of the form 'r\d+'),
as would 3/r4.  I suspect you stand a slightly better chance to
get some form of __getattr__ (and __setattr__) into modules, which
would be good for this & other uses, than specialized syntax for
rational numbers -- Moshe Zadka had urged me to write a PEP about
it (though I demurred when I found out that sys.modules CAN at
present house class-instances).


Alex





From jwbnews at scandaroon.com  Sat Jan 27 21:14:47 2001
From: jwbnews at scandaroon.com (John W. Baxter)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 18:14:47 -0800
Subject: Hack request: rational numbers
References: <mailman.980590234.29036.python-list@python.org> <94uqut$l8q$1@panix3.panix.com>
Message-ID: <jwbnews-C41BF3.18144727012001@news.olympus.net>

In article <94uqut$l8q$1 at panix3.panix.com>, aahz at panix.com (Aahz 
Maruch) wrote:

> In article <mailman.980590234.29036.python-list at python.org>,
> Tim Peters <tim.one at home.com> wrote:
> >
> >excluding-those-who-don't-like-anything-new-ever-ly y'rs  - tim
> 
> <waves paw irritably>  Bah!

Indeed.

  --John (still considering whether he prefers the abacus (2 special 
rows) or the soroban (one special row) for bead computing ;-))

-- 
John W. Baxter   Port Ludlow, WA USA  jwbnews at scandaroon.com


From claird at starbase.neosoft.com  Fri Jan 19 17:29:59 2001
From: claird at starbase.neosoft.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: 19 Jan 2001 16:29:59 -0600
Subject: Deployment woes (was: I will kill my Python)
References: <mailman.979852022.13720.python-list@python.org> <947r18$rdt$1@news.online.de> <WV0a6.745$eI2.252250@ruti.visi.com>
Message-ID: <4DE7F9DB9399A3C1.D96FC6EFB3F2391E.88AD1775E4555FCA@lp.airnews.net>

In article <WV0a6.745$eI2.252250 at ruti.visi.com>,
Grant Edwards <grante at visi.com> wrote:
>In article <947r18$rdt$1 at news.online.de>, Nils Hensel wrote:
>
>>If an exe is your single concern then perhaps you should better stick with
>>VB.
>
>As if running an exe file generated by VB doesn't require that
>a whole slew of DLLs and other cruft be installed.  It's no
>different than Python.
			.
			.
			.
Is that true?  I thought the VB deployment was worse,
in that *those* DLLs seem more likely to degrade an
already-operational Win* host.

I should say this more carefully.  I think many of us
have the belief that installation of apparently inno-
cuous applications sometimes--often?--creates 
insidious DLL conflicts which sclerose a previously
functional desktop.  Things start to get worse.  They
continue to deteriorate until the system is wiped
clean, and everything re-installed from scratch (and
then the cycle begins again).

I personally know of no tales of Python installations
having this bad effect.  I've experienced several my-
self that might be associated with a VB installation.

I defer to those with more certain knowledge.  I find
Win* habits too esoteric for my comprehension; that's
as definite as I can be.
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at NeoSoft.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://starbase.neosoft.com/~claird/home.html


From neilh at scintilla.org  Wed Jan 10 06:25:20 2001
From: neilh at scintilla.org (Neil Hodgson)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 11:25:20 GMT
Subject: win32all license for python 1.5.2?
References: <3A5C3109.2163FAA4@gmx.de>
Message-ID: <AEX66.53783$xW4.429029@news-server.bigpond.net.au>

Michael Scharf:

> I am slightly confused with the python licenses: We use
> python 1.5.2 for a commercial product (SNiFF+
> http://www.windriver.com/products/html/sniff.html). We now
> want to use the win32 COM extensions from
> http://www.python.org/windows/win32all .
>
> Following the links, I end up with this license agreement:
>
> http://www.activestate.com/Products/ActivePython/License_Agreement.html

   That's one way of traversing the links - another is to go to
http://www.activestate.com/Products/ActivePython/win32all.html
   or
http://starship.python.net/crew/mhammond/win32/Downloads.html
   and download one of the win32all builds such as 135 which works with
BeOpen Python 2.0. After installation, the License.txt files found in the
win32, win32com and PythonWin directories says more sensible things,
ackowledging that copyright is mostly held by Mark Hammond although there
are contributions from others. Redistribution is specifically allowed except
for the normal acknowledgement, non-use of the Mark Hammond brand when
advertising (as if!), and warranty disclaimer.

>   ... You may not distribute copies of this Package, or copies of
>   packages derived from this Package, to others outside your
>   organization without specific prior written permission from
>   ActiveState (although you are encouraged to direct them to
>   sources from which they may obtain it for themselves)...

   So don't use the bits that are downloaded as ActivePython. Equivalently
good bits are available separately. ActivePython is currently just a nicely
collected bunch of software.

> The questions:
> - Can we use win32all for our commercial product?

   Sure can.

> - Do we need this permission for the 1.5.2 version?

   No.

> - What must copyright notes must appear where?

   If you include PythonWin or win32
Copyright (c) 1994-2000, Mark Hammond

   If you include win32com
Copyright (c) 1996-2000, Greg Stein and Mark Hammond.

   The licenses say nothing about where they are to appear just that they
are to reproduced. I'd stick them in the about box and when that gets too
big add a [Boring bits] button to the about box.

> - What do we have to make available and in which form?

   Nothing.

> Can anybody explain this to me (or give me a pointer to a
> document, a non-native speaker and non-lawyer can
> understand...)

   I'm sure Mark will pop up if I got anything wrong.

   Neil





From joejava at dragonat.net  Thu Jan  4 22:56:44 2001
From: joejava at dragonat.net (Joel Ricker)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 22:56:44 -0500
Subject: Migrating to perl?
References: <mailman.978665345.25536.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pEb56.4613$of7.218928@news1.atl>

BTW, that subject should have been "Migrating *from* perl?".  I saw the
mistake the instant I hit Post.

Tim Peters wrote in message ...
>[Joel Ricker]
>> I'm thinking of moving from perl to python and I was looking for
>> opinions on the difference.
>
>Don't bother <wink>.  Seriously, download Python, install it, and work your
>way through the tutorial that comes with it.  In no more than a few hours
>you'll know for certain whether Python is for you!  Much more efficient
than
>guessing whether the replies you get here are lying <wink>.


Oh I am.  The Activestate build is being downloaded right now as I write
this while reading an article from the new Open Source Developers Journal
called Perl vs. Python, Which One Is Right For You?  Granted thats pretty
much what I'm asking this newsgroup for but I'm looking for a variety of
opinions.  Be sure that I'll be working on that tutorial shortly.

>> ...
>> So basically what I'd like to know is, how do the two compare?
>
>Python's motto is "there's only one way to do it" -- they're polar extremes
>in some ways.  Python is very uniform in its syntax and semantics (compared
>to Perl, not compared to e.g. Scheme).  That can make it wordier than Perl,
>and, in some cases, slower (for example, regular expressions are just
>another module in Python -- the language proper knows nothing at all about
>them, so can't special-case the snot out of them).  On the other hand, the
>uniformity and makes it much easier to read other peoples' code, and that
>includes your own.


Thats part of the problem I'm running into.  My programming background has
been Pascal in high school almost ten years ago and recently Perl.
Javascript as well but that was pretty easy to learn.  I'm not really sure
I'm going to give up entirely on Perl yet, I've invested too much time and
sunk too much money in books to do a complete 180 but I'm open to
alternatives.

My main need right now is CGI which is why I chose perl in the first place.
It looks like Python can fill in that need as well.

>A simple example should make this clear immediately (cut from an
interactive
>Python shell session):
>
[*snip*] - ah but is it easy :)  The reason I ask is that I'm just learning
OO.  Perl was my first attempt and that was when I was hitting the wall.
I'm sure though its not different from any other OO implementation and so I
should direct that questions to other appropriate resources.

But if anyone has written a thorough tutorial on Python OO, I'll be half
convinved <wink>.

>You even get to name your arguments in Python, just like in a real language
><wink>.


Great, just like the good ol days.

[*snip*]

>The day I was proudest of comp.lang.python was a day last year when, at a
>very busy time, someone posted the question "what's a text editor?".
>Amazingly, they got several gentle introductions to the topic.
>
>That doesn't mean we're not vicious, though:  just try suggesting that
>Python should add curly braces <0.9 wink>.


Thats refreshing to hear.  When I first got involved with Usenet (circa 92)
that was the general attitude but things have changed but this is a
different time *sigh*.  I've saw a very brutal response once in a Perl
mailing list when someone asked a very simple question, something like how
do you get the greater of two numbers or something like that.  Granted the
person should have looked at the documentation or even picked up Learning
Perl but it didn't warrant the attack that ensued.

>you-also-have-to-put-with-<wink>s-and-stupid-signoff-
>    lines-here-ly y'rs  - tim


That I think I can handle <wink>.

Thanks,
Joel






From root at rainerdeyke.com  Wed Jan 10 12:22:07 2001
From: root at rainerdeyke.com (Rainer Deyke)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 17:22:07 GMT
Subject: why no "do : until"?
References: <mailman.979144343.8725.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3T076.20239$ge4.9588495@news2.rdc2.tx.home.com>

"Steven D. Majewski" <sdm7g at virginia.edu> wrote in message
news:mailman.979144343.8725.python-list at python.org...
>
> On Wed, 10 Jan 2001 gregory_wilson at my-deja.com wrote:
> >
> > A proposal I floated a year ago, based on feedback from students in
> > the Python course I teach, was:
> >
> >     do:
> >       first-half
> >     while cond:
> >       second half
> >
> > which would allow the following degenerate forms:
> >
> >     do:
> >       body
> >     while cond
> >
> > and
> >
> >     while cond:
> >       body
> >
>
> How do you distinguish between a single loop:
>
> do:
>   stuff
> while cond:
>   more_stuff
>
> and two separate degenerate loops:
>
> do:
>   stuff

This is not a valid loop: all 'do' loops require a 'while'.


--
Rainer Deyke (root at rainerdeyke.com)
Shareware computer games           -           http://rainerdeyke.com
"In ihren Reihen zu stehen heisst unter Feinden zu kaempfen" - Abigor




From daniel.dittmar at sap.com  Wed Jan 17 05:45:50 2001
From: daniel.dittmar at sap.com (Daniel Dittmar)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 11:45:50 +0100
Subject: access FoxPro files without ODBC
References: <943qu9$hde$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <943t4s$h3c$1@news1.wdf.sap-ag.de>

The Vaults of Parnassus found:
http://www.vex.net/parnassus/apyllo.py?find=foxpro

You could also seach for dbase, as the format of the base tables is the
same, although the index files are different.

Daniel

--
Daniel Dittmar
daniel.dittmar at sap.com
SAP DB, SAP Labs Berlin
http://www.sapdb.org/






From moshez at zadka.site.co.il  Mon Jan 15 15:08:52 2001
From: moshez at zadka.site.co.il (Moshe Zadka)
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 22:08:52 +0200 (IST)
Subject: storing passwords
In-Reply-To: <Pine.OS2.4.30.0101150725530.438-100000@CENTRAL>
References: <Pine.OS2.4.30.0101150725530.438-100000@CENTRAL>
Message-ID: <20010115200852.9CFF8A828@darjeeling.zadka.site.co.il>

On Mon, 15 Jan 2001 Andrew MacIntyre <andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au> wrote:

> I wrote a simple module that stores the account,password pair as an XOR
> "masked" string in a dbm file with the hostname as the key.  The module is
> only published (put in the PYTHONPATH) as a .pyc/.pyo, so the full source
> is not generally readable.
> 
> This is only obscurity however, not real security.

And not even good obscurity! .pyc files are actually quite readable
if you use the dis module, and I think Mr. Aycock wrote a decompyler.
Don't use security through obscurity, please! It will only give you
a sense of security, lulling your senses. I think that in that case,
the only thing to do is to rely on the OS security as far as permissions
go.
-- 
Moshe Zadka <sig at zadka.site.co.il>
This is a signature anti-virus. 
Please stop the spread of signature viruses!



From dsh8290 at rit.edu  Mon Jan 29 11:13:38 2001
From: dsh8290 at rit.edu (D-Man)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 11:13:38 -0500
Subject: Python vs Ruby
In-Reply-To: <slrn97486l.gm.amk@mira.erols.com>; from amk@mira.erols.com on Sat, Jan 27, 2001 at 01:00:06AM +0000
References: <94mdkd$222e$1@news.adamastor.ac.za> <p6qwvbjtr97.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de> <94pvd8$3g$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <p6qu26mtesx.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de> <mailman.980533713.29159.python-list@python.org> <slrn97486l.gm.amk@mira.erols.com>
Message-ID: <20010129111338.B15924@harmony.cs.rit.edu>

On Sat, Jan 27, 2001 at 01:00:06AM +0000, A.M. Kuchling wrote:
| On Fri, 26 Jan 2001 13:24:36 -0500, D-Man <dsh8290 at rit.edu> wrote:
| >Of course.  Mark-and-sweep is an algorithm for Garbage Collection and
| >Reference Counting isn't garbage collections.  Both gc and ref
| >counting are forms of /Automatic Memory Management/.
| 
| Hrm... In the Jones/Lins book on garbage collection, section 2.1 and
| chapter 3 are on reference counting, and they refer to it as "one of
| the classial garbage collection algorithms", which settles the matter

Hmm, ok.  I guess different people have different definitions for the
same word.  This can be confusing (or worse) in discussions.  (BTW, I
don't have any books on GC, I've just read a bunch of stuff on the
web;  also a class I took discussed automatic memory management during
one section)

| for me; clearly reference counting *is* a form of GC, just one with a
| sizable limitation that may or may not be a problem for a particular
| application.  
| 
| --amk

-D




From ivnowa at hvision.nl  Fri Jan 26 08:37:02 2001
From: ivnowa at hvision.nl (Hans Nowak)
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 13:37:02 GMT
Subject: Hack request: rational numbers
References: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0101251759070.28148-100000@kev.ioc.ee> <94pn5g02jh9@news2.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <3A717BB1.4FB3@hvision.nl>

Alex Martelli wrote:

> r3/4 would work if your module could have a __getattr__ (and if
> you could reserve in your modules all variables of the form 'r\d+'),
> as would 3/r4.  I suspect you stand a slightly better chance to
> get some form of __getattr__ (and __setattr__) into modules, which
> would be good for this & other uses, than specialized syntax for
> rational numbers -- Moshe Zadka had urged me to write a PEP about
> it (though I demurred when I found out that sys.modules CAN at
> present house class-instances).

Cool, I didn't know that! You can actually do things like:

>>> class FakeModule:
	def __getattr__(self, name):
		print name, "yourself, you insolent whelp!"
	def __repr__(self):
		return "<module fake at %s>" % hex(id(self))

	
>>> sys.modules['fake'] = FakeModule()
>>> import fake
>>> fake
<module fake at 0xd7c7cc>
>>> fake.foo
foo yourself, you insolent whelp!

So you can actually import something that is not a module. Now how can I
abuse this... hmm... :)

(*ponders*) Maybe we will get to the point that everything will be a
class with a full set of user-definable and magic methods... the
function attributes of 2.1 seem a step in that direction, at least.
Adding attributes to everything else is not so far away; neither is
adding user-definable and magic methods to everything. (Whether it will
really be implemented is a different can of spam, of course.)


From hgg9140 at cola.ca.boeing.com  Thu Jan 18 14:15:00 2001
From: hgg9140 at cola.ca.boeing.com (Harry George)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 19:15:00 GMT
Subject: Using Python instead of...
References: <9423s9$32f$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <mailman.979787080.3274.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <xqxely0smdn.fsf@cola.ca.boeing.com>

Several answers:

1. If you have to use some library available only in Java, then stick
   with Java (though you might look at Jython).

2. For our resumes, we all need some Java experience, but maybe you
   have that already.  We also need experience with lots of
   technologies (LDAP, Web server, encryption, regular expressions,
   parsing, XML, SQL, etc.)  For learning technologies, I find Python
   much faster than Java.  Those skills are then applicable across
   platforms and langauges.

3. Python is not yet massively mainstream, but it is definitely
   growing, and is recognized as a significant cross-platform tool.  I
   work in an environment which has MS-VB fans, platform-neutral-Java
   fans, and Unix-Perl fans.  Recently a co-worker (MS champion) and I
   (Linux/OSS champion) discovered we both consider Python a major
   productivity breakthrough in our worlds.  Anything that brings us
   together has to be good :-)

4. I wrote XML apps in Java for a year, then shifted to python.  Same
   functionality took roughly 1/2 the LOC in python as in java.  And
   far more maintainable.  

D-Man <dsh8290 at rit.edu> writes:

> If you are considering using Java, I think that Python would be better
> suited.  I have a fair amount of Java experience (rapidly increasing
> as I use Java in my present employment) and feel that python far
> exceeds Java in ability and ease of use.
> 
> Perhaps showing your boss the "Python in Industry" thread will help in
> altering his "mainstream" view?
> 
> -D
> 
> PS.  I have never used VB, but I have heard that it tends not to have
> good structure and doesn't have decent OO support.
> 
> 
> On Tue, Jan 16, 2001 at 06:28:39PM +0000, John Urberg wrote:
> | We are considering what language to use to rewrite our practice
> | management system.  It is currently a PowerBuilder client/server system.
> | Currently all that is in the running is VisualBasic and Java.  My boss
> | is concerned about using anything that is not "mainstream".  Any ideas
> | on ways to convince him to use Python?  Or is Python a bad idea for this
> | application?
> | 
> | Thanks,
> | John Urberg
> | 
> 

-- 
Harry George                E-mail:  harry.g.george at boeing.com
The Boeing Company          Renton:  (425) 237-6915
P. O. Box 3707  02-CA       Everett: (425) 266-3868
Seattle, WA 98124-2207      Page:    (425) 631-8803  


From tsatter at purecode.com  Tue Jan  9 13:15:33 2001
From: tsatter at purecode.com (Tom Satter)
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 11:15:33 -0700
Subject: why no "do : until"?
References: <932r3e010bd@news1.newsguy.com><mailman.978660367.22251.python-list@python.org> <fvy9wlztq2.fsf@Borokay.AI.SRI.COM> <93dfg1177p@news1.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <chkf39.rge.ln@tethys-frii.purecode.com>

Looking at the Indexing class gave me an idea, what about having
a class 'Popable' that would let you pop items out of a loop while
in the loop:


class Popable:
    def __init__(self, thing):
        self.thing  = thing
        self.last   = -1
        self.offset = 0
    def __getitem__(self, index):
        self.last = index
        return self.thing[index+self.offset]
    def pop(self):
        self.offset += 1
        return self[self.last]

a = "abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz"
l = Popable(a)
for x in l:
    if x == 'a' or x == 'e' or x == 'i' or x == 'o' or x == 'u':
        x = l.pop()
    print x

This would print all of the letters in the alphabet except
the vowels.  I realize that there would be some handling
necessary if one tried to pop the last element of the list
but it may be a good start for some of the command line
argument handling code that has been requested.

--
tom -- just plain old tom
tsatter at purecode.com

"Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:93dfg1177p at news1.newsguy.com...
> "David Morley" <morley at Borokay.ai.sri.com> wrote in message
> news:fvy9wlztq2.fsf at Borokay.AI.SRI.COM...
>     [snip]
> > What would be wrong with:
> >
> > class Indexing:
> >     def __init__(self, thing):
> >         self.thing = thing
> >     def __getitem__(self, index):
> >         return (index, self.thing[index])
> >
> > for (i,x) in Indexing(a):
>
> Just the redundant parentheses --
>     for i, x in Indexing(a):
> reads fractionally more smoothly (and similarly,
> the parentheses are not needed on the return
> from __getitem__).  Pretty cool idea though!-)
>
> Alex





From marco at crepido.com  Wed Jan 24 12:04:39 2001
From: marco at crepido.com (Marco =?iso-8859-1?Q?Seiri=F6?=)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 18:04:39 +0100
Subject: what GUI, please advise
Message-ID: <3A6F0B27.A88D11C9@crepido.com>

There seems to be several good options to choose from when
it comes to GUI developent with Python.

Can someone say somthing, without killing each other with flames, what
GUI one should choose?

Stupid and impossible question by the way as everything depends as
usual... but anyway..

/M



From aahz at panix.com  Fri Jan 19 10:30:37 2001
From: aahz at panix.com (Aahz Maruch)
Date: 19 Jan 2001 07:30:37 -0800
Subject: PSU uses emacs?
References: <948e4b$hm0$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <948fvj$oq1$1@panix6.panix.com> <948tog$tts$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <949mit$b42$1@panix6.panix.com>

In article <948tog$tts$1 at nnrp1.deja.com>,
Chris Ryland  <cpr at emsoftware.com> wrote:
>In article <948fvj$oq1$1 at panix6.panix.com>,
>  aahz at panix.com (Aahz Maruch) wrote:
>> In article <948e4b$hm0$1 at nnrp1.deja.com>,
>> Chris Ryland  <cpr at emsoftware.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>Why do I have the sinking feeling that, with all the talk about IDEs
>>>for Python, the cognoscenti all use Emacs with python-mode and a
>>>shell window? ;-)
>>
>> vi
>
>Sorry, didn't mean to start a vi/emacs war here. I just meant a "real"
>editor. ;-)

I figured you'd understand that the two letters stood for the entire
flamewar.  ;-)
-- 
                      --- Aahz (Copyright 2001 by aahz at pobox.com)

Androgynous poly kinky vanilla queer het    <*>     http://www.rahul.net/aahz/
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6

I guess I mostly see Life [tm] as a process of closing doors that you
might want to go through.  --Aahz


From dan.rolander at marriott.com  Sun Jan 21 08:50:36 2001
From: dan.rolander at marriott.com (Dan Rolander)
Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 08:50:36 -0500
Subject: Different deployment considerations (was: Python & GUI?)
References: <CC59868A0A76D311B1F50090277B321C1E1478@VRTMAIL>
Message-ID: <03d301c083b1$22822b20$11260340@yin>

Hi Mike,

You wrote:

> There's nothing special to do for wxPython, I just run "standalone" or
> "simple" and the app is generated with the DLLs collected.  Once I rename
> msvcirt.dll to msvcrt.dll I've got a working application.

Why would you rename msvcirt.dll to msvcrt.dll?  These are two different
libraries. Msvcirt.dll is the C++ runtime and msvcrt.dll is the C runtime.

Dan






From syver at NOSPAMcyberwatcher.com  Fri Jan  5 11:04:01 2001
From: syver at NOSPAMcyberwatcher.com (Syver Enstad)
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 17:04:01 +0100
Subject: how to execute an outside program in the python ?
References: <H5356.720$WF6.14481@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu>
Message-ID: <934re8$pje$1@troll.powertech.no>

Hope this helps:

import os
os.system('command line')

Your program will hang until the program being executed is finished.

"Hwanjo Yu" <hwanjoyu at uiuc.edu> wrote in message
news:H5356.720$WF6.14481 at vixen.cso.uiuc.edu...
> Thanks.
>
>




From tinu at email.ch  Mon Jan  8 12:43:12 2001
From: tinu at email.ch (tinu at email.ch)
Date: 08 Jan 2001 18:43:12 +0100
Subject: Multipack not available
Message-ID: <yfmwvc6os7j.fsf@collet.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-shoot-me>

Dear all

The site oliphant.netpedia.net does not seem to exist anymore (error 404, URL
not found). Has anyone a new URL could provide the multipack package source?

Thank you

Martin




From thomas at xs4all.net  Fri Jan 26 19:33:48 2001
From: thomas at xs4all.net (Thomas Wouters)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 01:33:48 +0100
Subject: SourceForge problems
In-Reply-To: <94srdj$edtl1$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>; from emile@fenx.com on Fri, Jan 26, 2001 at 01:48:28PM -0800
References: <mailman.980510689.2616.python-list@python.org> <lmlc6.774$27.199390@ruti.visi.com> <mailman.980545112.10091.python-list@python.org> <94srdj$edtl1$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <20010127013348.M962@xs4all.nl>

On Fri, Jan 26, 2001 at 01:48:28PM -0800, Emile van Sebille wrote:

> ... or the lekker dutch... eh.. spitskop?  ;-)

Nono, if there is a national Dutch pride, it should be liquorice :) I'm not
much of a cheese-eater myself, but people tell me Dutch cheese is good, too.

-- 
Thomas Wouters <thomas at xs4all.net>

Hi! I'm a .signature virus! copy me into your .signature file to help me spread!



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Jan  5 11:57:01 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 17:57:01 +0100
Subject: 2001 Enchancement Wishlist
References: <3A4CEACB.220998A0@javanet.com> <92iv76$flh$1@slb2.atl.mindspring.net> <3A4ECDA9.E2796F78@javanet.com> <930af60qcn@news1.newsguy.com> <3A550331.594FEBDC@javanet.com>
Message-ID: <934uei02u7m@news2.newsguy.com>

"Raymond Hettinger" <othello at javanet.com> wrote in message
news:3A550331.594FEBDC at javanet.com...
    [snip]
> > > The decision to make a object a Singleton or to
> > > revoke that decision should be invisible to clients of the class.
> >
> > I strongly disagree that such "invisibility" is at all a desirable
> > design target -- and, in any case, "having __init__ return
> > something" would surely not accomplish it (or would you also
> > abolish 'is', 'id', etc...?).
>
> If a number of client's were already using the constructor, using
> singlify() saves the client's from having to remap from the constructor
> the were already using to a factory method of a different name.
>
> I don't get what you mean by abolishing 'is' and 'id'.

Sorry for being unclear!  What I meant is: client-code can already
tell whether two calls to FooBar() return the same object or two
different ones (for example, by checking with 'is', or comparing
the id() of the objects); so, the decision cannot be "invisible to
clients".

For real 'invisibility', don't expose Singletons: have class
FooBar turn into a (non-singleton) proxy for the real class
(rename it to _FooBar).  All FooBar objects delegate everything
to a single _FooBar object.  Identities remain distinct, so
'is' and id() keep working just as before; *state* is shared
(and behavior is identical for every FooBar instance), since
it's really the state and behavior of a single _FooBar instance.

I.e., module FooBar.py:

class _FooBar:
    # snip: whatever, lots & lots of stuff

class FooBar:
    theFooBar = _FooBar()
    def __init__(self):
        self.__dict__ = FooBar.theFooBar.__dict__
        self.__class__ = FooBar.theFooBar.__class__

and that's about it.  THIS level of delegation may easily be
considered too extreme, but it's easily exemplified -- just
to show how you can preserve identity distinctions while
merging state (the __dict__) and behavior (the __class__).

Now *this* ('weightless proxies') is a design pattern I
like...!-)


> > The more I do Python, the more I like "explicit is better than
implicit".
> >
> > Your request seems to boil down to having x implicitly mean x.keys(),
> > when x is a dictionary, in certain contexts; taking 'black magic' (even
> > in small doses:-) as a _negative_, rather than as good in itself, what
> > IS the supposed benefit that offsets the cost of implicitness here?
>
> The idea isn't totally out of left field.

I agree, it's not.  I just dislike it a bit, which says nothing
about the idea itself.

> Having tests for membership and
> an interator for dictionaries comes from Awk, Perl, and SmallTalk.
> Even plain English has an equivalent:  "Daddy, is Fragalistic IN the
> dictionary?"
>
> Benefit:  The proposed change is polymorphic with other parts of Python:
>     for c in "Arthur": print c                                   # strings
>     for k in ['lancalot', 'gallahad', 'robin']: print k    # lists
>     for e in (1,2,3): print e                                    # tuples
>     for k in knights: print k                                    # why not
> dictionaries?

Maybe my problem with it is related to my conceptualization of
the 'sequence abstraction' in Python -- it proceeds with simple
calls of __getitem__ (for class instances) for integers from 0
on up until IndexError gets raised to signify end-sequence.  It
seems to me that applying it to mappings would break the utter
(and very useful) underlying conceptualization, since it could
not be done via __getitem__.

strings, tuples and lists are sequences; mappings are not
sequences.  That's simple, to me... having a mapping be a
sequence in some respects would complicate things for me.

Membership-test would comparatively be no problem (since we now
have a dedicated special-method for that -- a mapping might just
translate that to has_key).


Alex





From btheld2 at my-deja.com  Tue Jan 30 11:32:14 2001
From: btheld2 at my-deja.com (btheld2 at my-deja.com)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 16:32:14 GMT
Subject: Need Python Enabled Rich Edit Control Similiar to PythonWin.Exe
References: <94q1rt$2ip$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <94q4n0$5en$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <956qae$91d$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

Mark,

I looked at Scintilla, however it looks like it is quite a job to get
all of the python-specific stuff added to the basic Scintilla editor
(so it works like PythonWin.exe).

I also looked at the Python View class and related rich edit control.
Much of this code resembles SWIG'd code - because of its ties to
Python.  I haven't been able to figure out where to begin WRT
creating/invoking a CWnd based rich-edit control.  Any tips?

Ben

In article <94q4n0$5en$1 at nnrp1.deja.com>,
  Mark Hammond <MarkH at ActiveState.com> wrote:
> In article <94q1rt$2ip$1 at nnrp1.deja.com>,
>   btheld2 at my-deja.com wrote:
> > Hello,
> >
> > I need a python-enabled rich edit control to use in my application
> that
> > looks similar to the view in PythonWin.exe.  However, I need a
control
>
> The Pythonwin rich-edit view is based on a rich-edit control, and can
> be used without problem (eg, the "Edit/Preferences" menu item uses
this)
>
> However, you should definitely check out scintilla - www.scintilla.org
>
> Mark.
>
> Sent via Deja.com
> http://www.deja.com/
>


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From martin at mira.cs.tu-berlin.de  Sat Jan 20 17:25:47 2001
From: martin at mira.cs.tu-berlin.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 23:25:47 +0100
Subject: [XML-SIG] Re: Using Installer with PyXML
In-Reply-To: <02c401c08311$a66e8f00$11260340@yin> (dan.rolander@marriott.com)
References: <02c401c08311$a66e8f00$11260340@yin>
Message-ID: <200101202225.f0KMPl200861@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

>     from xml.sax import saxexts, saxlib, saxutils
[...]
> the packager (Gordon McMillan's Installer) is able to find xml.sax.saxutils,
> but is not able to find xml.sax.saxexts or xml.sax.saxlib which actually
> reside in _xmlplus.sax.  

I was going to claim this to be a bug in the installer, but it now
rather seems like an operator error: The installer has now way of
knowing that it ought to load the _xmlplus.sax.saxexts into the
distribution, since there is no import statement for it.

So announcing the full _xmlplus package to it is the right thing to
do.

> I can force builder.py to include the entire
> _xmlplus tree by adding a packages=_xmlplus line to the [APPZLIB] section of
> the .cfg file, but the exe still fails because it is looking for xml.sax.*:
> 
>     ImportError: cannot import name xml.sax.saxexts

It's not clear what is causing that. It could be a bug in the
installer, or it could be the distribution contains no pyexpat.pyd. In
that case, you'll have to explicitly request inclusion of pyexpat.pyd.

It would be good to check what files are actually included.

> When I rename _xmlplus to xml and then run builder again without specifying
> any additional packages, the EXE fails because it can't find an available
> parser:
> 
>   File "c:\program files\python20\_xmlplus\sax\saxexts.py", line 77, in
> make_parser
>     xml.sax._exceptions.SAXReaderNotAvailable: No parsers found

No surprise. The installer is looking at import statements, but there
are no import statements for xml.sax.drivers.*; instead, they are
imported by calling __import__ for a computed string. So again, that
is an operator error: everything imported "by magic" must be announced
explicitly to such a packager.

> If I manually import the entire PyXML tree (now named 'xml') by adding a
> packages=xml line to the .cfg file, I get a little farther but now the exe
> isn't able to find pyexpat.
> 
>     ImportError: cannot import name xml.parsers.pyexpat
> 
> I then try to manually import pyexpat by adding xml.parsers.pyexpat to the
> misc line in the [MYCOLLECT] section, but finder.py is not able to find it:
> 
>       File "D:\DOCUME~1\Dan\Software\Python\INSTAL~1\MEInc\Dist\finder.py",
> line 121, in identify
>       ValueError: xml.parsers.pyexpat.pyd not found

You did not say *how* you specified it - it might be that Installer
mistook your command as trying to import a module named "pyd" from a
package named "pyexpat" - that is not available.

> If I changed the .cfg line in [MYCOLLECT] to misc=pyexpat.pyd then the core
> \DLLs version of pyexpat.pyd is found and put into the dist directory. Now
> when the exe is run I get a Windows error stating that the xmlparse.dll
> couldn't be located.
> 
> I add xmlparse.dll to the misc= line and then I get an error stating that
> the xmltok.dll couldn't be found.
> 
> I add xmltok.dll to the misc= line and voila! it works!

When you use the pyexpat from PyXML, the difference should be that
xmlparse.dll and xmltok.dll are not required.

> I then replaced the core version of pyexpat.pyd in \DLLs with the
> PyXML version and found that I could build a good exe without having
> to manually include the xmlparse.dll and xmltok.dll.

Not only do you not need to include them manually - they are not
needed at all. Care to write a small howto document for the XML topic
guide?

> I start with the _xmlplus directory renamed to xml, because I know that's
> necessary, and I build a new standalone installation. This time the pyexpat
> file is imported to the dist directory as xml.parsers.pyexpat.pyd but the
> exe won't import it:
> 
>     ImportError: cannot import name xml.parsers.pyexpat

Do you have a traceback for that? All applications should import
xml.parsers.expat, which should have 

from pyexpat import *

so there should be no request to load xml.parsers.pyexpat. Older PyXML
versions had such code, but it should have been wrapped with catching
and ImportError, which then should fall back to load pyexpat
unqualified.

> The only fix I can figure out is to change the import statement to:
> 
>     import pyexpat
> 
> and that works.

As I said, the real solution is to write 

  from xml.parsers import expat

or, if you need to keep the pyexpat name,

 from xml.parsers import expat as pyexpat

> 1.  Replace the core xml directory with the _xmlplus directory, by renaming
> _xmlplus to xml.

I'm not entirely sure *why* this is needed, but it certainly can't hurt.

> 2.  Copy the PyXML pyexpat.pyd file from the xml.parsers directory to the
> <python_root>\DLLs directory.

That is a good idea, yes.

> 3.  If pyexpat is needed, either explicitly import it in your script, or
> manually include it in the standalone installation by adding an entry to the
> misc line in the COLLECT section of the builder .cfg file.

pyexpat should always be included in PyXML applications, so that is
also fine.

> 4.  If importing from xml.sax, manually import the entire PyXML tree (source
> files only) by specifying either packages=xml or directories=xml in the PYZ
> section of the builder .cfg file.

I would guess the same applies when importing DOM stuff - the DOM
readers also use make_parser at some point.

Regards,
Martin



From mlh at idi.ntnu.no  Tue Jan 30 04:34:46 2001
From: mlh at idi.ntnu.no (Magnus Lie Hetland)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 10:34:46 +0100
Subject: Python vs Ruby
References: <94mdkd$222e$1@news.adamastor.ac.za> <p6qwvbjtr97.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de> <mailman.980510622.2558.python-list@python.org> <877l3h5a29.fsf@hoyogw.netlab.co.jp> <94voh3$5nm$1@snipp.uninett.no> <9505lo$v21$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <95438n$j2f$1@tyfon.itea.ntnu.no> <954uq3$oj8$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <95620t$ik9$1@tyfon.itea.ntnu.no>

"Greg Jorgensen" <gregj at pobox.com> wrote in message
news:954uq3$oj8$1 at nnrp1.deja.com...

> > I know. I noticed after posting.
> > (That's what you get for being cocky ;-)
>
> I hate when that happens (to me).

<wink>

> > Well... I thought my version "correctly" disallowed 0 as an argument.
>
> I wouldn't complain if you disallowed 0, but your code returns 1 for fib
> (0).

Well ... Your version "allows" negative numbers... I think one should be
able to trust programmers to use things correctly -- otherwise Python
wouldn't work anyway. (No real encapsulation etc. ;-)

> If you use the old definition where there is no fib(0), the
> function should throw an exception.

I guess. And it should perhaps be wrapped up in some sort of sequence
class... And a lot of other nice things :)

> I would use a for loop if there was a form that didn't iterate over a
> sequence when I just want to count from a to b.

Yeah. I remember some languages having things like:

repeat 10
  print "Spam"
end

That's actually quite nice, IMO. (I think both HyperTalk and PostScript
have this, at least).

But of course this is just syntactic sugar (as so much else)...

> It's my years of
> programming in C that prevents me from resisting the urge to decrement
> a loop counter down to 0.

Well... I must concede that I really dislike using a for-loop without using
the index for anything useful... (Like... for dummy in range(10)... I've
even
seen someone use the name "_" for such an index... <shudder>)

I wonder... Could we find a way of writing this that's consistent with
Python syntax? (Perhaps a future PEP?)

How about simply:

for 100:
    print "spam"

?

A new version of your little function:

def fib(n):
    a,b = 0,1
    for n:
        a,b = b,a+b
    return a

Hm. It doesn't really read well, in a way. "for x in y" is OK, I mean...
"For each x in y, do z". But -- "for n"? "For n times ..." Hm.

Next I'm sure I'll ask for standard numeric for loops without sequence
iteration... Naah...

> And of course in C a for loop IS just a while
> loop in fancy clothes.

As, indeed, it is anywhere else. And it's all just GOTO in fancy clothes,
really. (Or lambda, if you're in a theoretical mood...)

>
> > happy-to-spend-time-on-anything-useless'ly y'rs
>
> Yeah me too.

--

  Magnus Lie Hetland      (magnus at hetland dot org)

 "Reality is what refuses to disappear when you stop
  believing in it"                 -- Philip K. Dick





From quinn at bolivar.ugcs.caltech.edu  Mon Jan 29 15:13:58 2001
From: quinn at bolivar.ugcs.caltech.edu (Quinn Dunkan)
Date: 29 Jan 2001 20:13:58 GMT
Subject: how to store great array?
References: <953sps$nta$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <slrn97bjo6.8va.quinn@bolivar.ugcs.caltech.edu>

On Mon, 29 Jan 2001 13:56:15 GMT, paulus132 at my-deja.com
<paulus132 at my-deja.com> wrote:
>For 2 mio Documents, I have a "Year" field (4 characters) associated
>with each of them. I try to store this in Python, to report him over
>other records.
>
>It is possible ? Wich is the faster method ?
>
>The easiest way is a dictionnary { doc_num : year } but how estimate the
>necessary memory ? With old Basic's, the FREE(0) Builtin returns the
>number of free memory. Is there comparable module/class/function to
>survey memory use in Python ?
>
>Another way is to construct a list doc_years = ["1934", "1942", "1897",
>....], and access it with doc_years[doc_num]. Is doc_years[2000000] as
>fast as doc_years[456] ?

Yes.

>Another way is to construct an unique string with all years
>concatenated, and access it with all_years[4*doc_num:4*doc_num+4]. But I
>think that 7.6 Mo length is too big ! How long can be a string ?

Array access is constant, and at the C level, arrays are accessed just like
your complicated subscript.  So just use the normal indexing, it'll turn into
that at the C / assembly level.  A string can be as long as you have memory
for.  Even if the years are all in a similar range and python interns the
strings (effectively compressing the data), the normal reference overhead will
take your memory back again.

Note that in python terminology, a list is what everyone else calls an array.
So you might have been confused into thinking python lists are linked-lists
aka cons cells, which have linear access (so doc_years[200000] would take
longer than doc_years[2]).  But python's lists are arrays.  Don't ask me why
this confusing terminology was chosen, probably because some Dutch people
doing usability tests thought 'list' sounded nicer for ABC a million years
ago.

Dict access is also constant, as is usual for a hash table (internally, it
gets turned into simple array access).  But if your indices will be inteeger,
then a plain array aka list will have less overhead.

Python experts could tell you the exact memory usage.  It will be something
like bytes_in_string+null + pointer + type_field + maybe_a_cached_hash +
interned_flag.  So with ~4 bytes overhead for each 5 byte string, you're
looking at 9*2_000_000 / 1024 / 1024 = 17MB for 2 million elements.

Since every platform has a different way of reporting free memory (and most
modern ones lie through their teeth about it), I'm not aware of any standard
way to see available memory.  For unix-likes, you could use the resource
module to see *consumed* memory.  Windows may have special functions in the
win32 modules.  Best bet, unless you're working on an embedden platform, is to
just try it and see what happens.  If you run out of memory, try using the
array module to eliminate the per-element overhead.  If you're *still* out of
memory, come up with a simple compression scheme so you don't lose your O(1)
access and write a C module :)  But we're not on Commodore 64s anymore, you
know :)


From donn at u.washington.edu  Wed Jan 17 13:06:51 2001
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: 17 Jan 2001 18:06:51 GMT
Subject: threading: how to kill a (possibly blocked) thread?
References: <3A649FE4.E582D0E0@ll.mit.edu> <u1yu2vmiq.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com> <944ekb$ri$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <944mvr$9ns$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>

Quoth rturpin at my-deja.com:
| In article <u1yu2vmiq.fsf at ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com>,
|   David Bolen <db3l at fitlinxx.com> wrote:
|> What you really need to do is ensure that your threads
|> can accept an external request to terminate themselves ..
|
| The ideal way to do this is with a timed interrupt that
| invokes a function in the thread. The thread would start
| by setting this interrupt:
|
|   set_interrupt(8, funcCallBack)
|
| Then, funcCallBack gets invoked every 8 seconds,
| interrupting what the thread is doing, and returning
| to the interrupted code when the function returns.
| Unfortunately, I don't see such a facility in the
| library.
|
|> .. The main thread code should then check the event
|> object periodically and exit nicely if it is set.
|
| Except for certain kinds of processing, such as FSMs,
| this gets REAL ugly REAL fast. It also fails to protect
| against the very things for which you want a guard,
| i.e., external events that never occur.

For me, thread dispatch from an event loop is really the only
way to go in a seriously multi-threaded system.  I do my
multithreaded programs on BeOS, where that event loop concept
is built into an OOP user interface system, and just about
anything is a thread.  (I'm writing this in a Python newsreader
where I count 14 threads at the moment, most of them waiting
patiently for a message in their event loop queue - mostly
windows, and a couple of network clients.)

It is far from ugly, really somewhat elegant.  Can't imagine
doing it any other way.

I would guess the reason you don't see an interrupt feature
would be that there is nothing portable in that department,
and if there were, it would probably be a pain to integrate
into Python.  One general portability problem is that the
interrupt will often cost you the blocking I/O that was
interrupted;  then you have to trap the exception raised by
the interrupted I/O call, and post the I/O again.

I take no position on killing threads, in principal, but
since you can't do it from Python anyway, threads have to
be more cooperative, and the stuff that happens has to be
better understood and accounted for.

	Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu


From ssthapa at harper.uchicago.edu  Wed Jan 17 16:23:49 2001
From: ssthapa at harper.uchicago.edu (ssthapa at harper.uchicago.edu)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 21:23:49 GMT
Subject: Securing passwords stored inside of a database field using Python
References: <20010117165350.A24421@yetix.sz-sb.de>, <NKh96.874$eI2.31689@NewsReader> <Pine.LNX.4.30.0101171749020.28607-100000@fep132.fep.ru> <mailman.979752571.12893.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrn96bpsp.vnp.ssthapa@ntcs-ip45.uchicago.edu>

Moshe Zadka <moshez at zadka.site.co.il> wrote:
>On Wed, 17 Jan 2001, Andreas Jung <andreas at andreas-jung.com> wrote:
>
>> When it is neccessary to decrypt stored passwords you could try an algorithm
>> like IDEA. Maybe take a look at the mxCrypto or amkCrypto package for Python.
>> They implement the most popular crypto algorithms. But take care of the
>> US export controls for encryption software.
>
>A bigger problem might be patents: IDEA, for example, is patented.

    That's true but there are unemcumbered algorithms like 3DES and 
the Rijndael (sp?).  However, you still have the problem that you need
the key to decrypt the passwords to be stored on your system somewhere.  
Since the original poster want to hide passwords from people that could 
access the database, this doesn't seem like much help.

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------
			    |
Suchandra Thapa             | "There are only two kinds of math books. 
s-thapaNO at SPAMuchicago.edu  | Those you cannot read beyond the first 
			    | sentence, and those you cannot read 
			    | beyond the first page."
			    |                       -C.N. Yang
------------------------------------------------------------------


From horst at proceryon.at  Tue Jan  9 02:34:49 2001
From: horst at proceryon.at (Horst Gassner)
Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2001 08:34:49 +0100
Subject: What's about PyTix?
Message-ID: <3A5ABF19.3771F634@proceryon.at>

Hello!

Does anyone know if PyTix is still available?

If yes, where can I find a actual version?
Will PyTix work with Python 2.0, too?

Thanx in advance
Horst


From quinn at ngwee.ugcs.caltech.edu  Fri Jan 12 16:32:48 2001
From: quinn at ngwee.ugcs.caltech.edu (Quinn Dunkan)
Date: 12 Jan 2001 21:32:48 GMT
Subject: pattern matching in python
References: <slrn95tbua.h32.quinn@euro.ugcs.caltech.edu>
Message-ID: <slrn95uu00.60s.quinn@ngwee.ugcs.caltech.edu>

I was only looking for a cons operator as a way to suggest an extension to
python's pattern matching... i.e., something like:

1 ++ [2, 3] # -> [1, 2, 3]

Of course, since python lists are arrays, this doesn't make much sense, but
hey, then you could write:

def f(a, x ++ y, b): ...

Or maybe:

def f(a, [x, *y], b): ...

Then of course you could also do:

a, [x, y, *rest], b = 1, [2,3,4,5], 6



See, when some people find a little-used obscure dusty corner, they want to
board it up and paint over it, to make everything "pretty" and "clean".
Others feel a need to decorate it with random little trinkets and further
obscurities and call it home.


From spenrose at well.com  Wed Jan 10 01:42:32 2001
From: spenrose at well.com (Sam Penrose)
Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2001 22:42:32 -0800
Subject: Web devel with python. Whats the best route?
References: <93cqvi0191h@news1.newsguy.com> <mailman.978910629.6814.python-list@python.org> <mailman.978975978.19612.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <spenrose-E755EB.22423209012001@news.dnai.com>

In article <mailman.978975978.19612.python-list at python.org>, Moshe 
Zadka <moshez at zadka.site.co.il> wrote:

> On Mon, 8 Jan 2001 17:46:13 +0100, "Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> > CGI.  Really.  Your admin system doesn't look like the kind of thing 
> > that
> > will be continuously getting multiple hits a second, making CGI 
> > overhead
> > a problem.  If that is the case, CGI is easiest.  *Do the simplest 
> > thing
> > that can possibly work*!
> 
> CGI is not an answer. Perhaps you meant "CGI with lots of little
> print '<HTML>' this and print '<BODY>' that", which is as far from
> the simplest thing that could possible work as possible. Most Python web
> frameworks work just fine from CGI (PSP, WebWare, and even Quixote, I 
> think).
> Those are answers, and very good ones.
> Perhaps even CGI+HTMLgen is an answer, though this might depend on
> personal taste. 
> 
> Of course, the simplest thing that can possible work 
> interface-to-the-browser
> part is of course not even going with CGI, but with inheriting from
> BaseHTTPRequestHandler. Connecting that to something like PSP you
> get a cross-platform solution which is very easy. Connecting it to ZODB
> may be the final piece of the puzzle -- with ZODB and a dash of cookies,
> state management becomes so easy you'll wonder how you did without
> it.
> 
> Of course, to be true to the Python tradition, take the 
> PSPHTTPRequestHandler+ZODB and join the egroup mailing list for Python
> web frameworks developers.
> 
> using-mod_perl+HTML::Mason-and-hating-it-myself-ly y'rs, Z.


As Alex noted, many of us generate HTML template files with embedded 
Python markers, read them in, execute some Python, and print.

My company employs three programmers and an HTML person making Python 
CGI-driven dynamic web sites. Our biggest client does thousands of 
dollars a day in ecommerce, selling over 800 products with a series of 
complications due to the nature of the products and the company's 
business model. Before moving to a TurboLinux cluster for redundancy, 
the ~3,000 line system was pumping out about 25,000 dynamic hits a day 
on a 500 MHz Pentium III with 256 megs of RAM and a 7200 rpm SCSI drive 
running RedHat Linux and Apache. None of the software (ours or 
Linux/Apache) was tuned for performance; the three programmers who wrote 
ours averaged about 6 months of experience. We have had no performance 
problems. I suspect a cluefully-written CGI system could handle at least 
100,000 hits a day on $2,000 worth of hardware, as long as the peaks 
weren't too brutal.

In contrast to Alex's comments, however, we do not place Python 
statements within HTML. We stick with string substitution keys, 
resorting to regular expressions once in a great while. Part of a 
template might look like:

First Name: <input type="text" name="firstName" value="%(firstName)s">
Last Name: <input type="text" name="lastName" value="%(lastName)s">
Street: <input type="text" name="street" value="%(street)s">
...etc....

The script will then read that in and substitute the relevant contact 
info or blank strings, as appropriate. The advantage to the system is 
that we can hire HTML specialists and Python specialists, and teach them 
enough about each other's areas to work together.

For sessions, we use keys placed in HTML. There is an entire framework 
for generating the key at login, check its validity and freshness (keys 
time out after a certain period, typically 30 minutes), and dropping it 
into every link on the page as well as a hidden field for POST 
submissions. Then there are all sorts of silly little routines we have 
for generating pulldown menus, setting radio buttons and checkboxes, 
talking to the database, etc. As an application platform, HTML is 
stateless and UI-impaired, but you can do quite a bit with it. My summer 
project was a content management system for the same client's intranet. 
Also about 3,000 lines, it handles an owner-group-world permissions 
system, calendaring, time tracking, file uploads/sharing, images, 
HTML/plain text, various forms of dynamic site navigation, form creation 
(you can make your own CGIs and receive submissions via email), and 
more. All through plain jane Python CGIs.

The next time someone posts to comp.lang.python telling you you really 
need an Apache module/Zope/whatever to handle that customer feedback 
page, don't believe them.

(Out of all of the projects tracked on Paul's page, the two that 
interest me are Chuck's Webware and Titus' AOL Server thingie. The 
former looks well-designed, and AOL Server, sans Python, has a track 
record of handling extremely high loads gracefully. Note that I haven't 
actually used either and neither appears to be finished.)


From i at on.ru  Sun Jan 14 12:58:26 2001
From: i at on.ru (i at on.ru)
Date: 14 Jan 2001 19:58:26 +0200
Subject: FREE http://4sansai.cjb.net  7276
Message-ID: <3a61e8c2$1@news.takas.lt>

http://4sansai.cjb.net
xgpejxycqgwefekxhljrfhjogdzkpvrxlfgmllcpndndtijkpbuwithuslbhzormfqvhjrixkipxzreqxylnhcxbjkk



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Thu Jan 25 14:22:50 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 20:22:50 +0100
Subject: Crash using Python 2.0 Extension
References: <3A707199.FBDF1A81@newfocus.com>
Message-ID: <94pufl02rda@news2.newsguy.com>

"Ken Koller" <kkoller at newfocus.com> wrote in message
news:3A707199.FBDF1A81 at newfocus.com...
> Hi,
>
> I originally wrote the routine below to return Py_None, but the
> interpretter would crash after calling the routine several times (maybe
> 100-200) in a row. At first I thought it had something to do with the

You need to increment-reference the object you're returning,
even if it's Py_None; seems you aren't doing it.

>  return Py_BuildValue("i", 0);

Or just return Py_BuildValue("") -- this is also a way to return
an incref'd None, not quite as fast as doing it directly but more
compact and perhaps handier.


Alex





From not.this at seebelow.org  Tue Jan 30 13:50:01 2001
From: not.this at seebelow.org (Grant Griffin)
Date: 30 Jan 2001 10:50:01 -0800
Subject: curly-brace-aphobic?
References: <3A74EBD6.3C87FD15@seebelow.org> <slrn97a9fu.7sf.clgonsal@keeshah.penguinpowered.com> <3A757FBE.E54C5ECD@seebelow.org> <mailman.980789494.4239.python-list@python.org> <slrn97c6bs.bjo.scarblac@pino.selwerd.nl> <mailman.980870616.378.python-list@python.org> <95718r018s8@drn.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <9572cp01ck3@drn.newsguy.com>

In article <95718r018s8 at drn.newsguy.com>, Grant says...
>
...
>containers
>   arrays
>      mutable
>         lists
>      immutable
>          tuples
>          strings
>   dictionaries

BTW, in terms of _this_ hierarchy, the rule of "All arrays are indexed using
square braces and all dictionaries are indexed using curly braces" is entirely
consistent.

consistency-is-in-the-eye-of-the-person-looking-at-it-ly y'rs,

=g2

_____________________________________________________________________

Grant R. Griffin                                       g2 at dspguru.com
Publisher of dspGuru                           http://www.dspguru.com
Iowegian International Corporation            http://www.iowegian.com



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sat Jan  6 05:07:32 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2001 11:07:32 +0100
Subject: Fibonacci numbers/program
References: <936gsv$3r1$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <936r2h0ps5@news1.newsguy.com>

"Eric Anechiarico" <wedjlok at excite.com> wrote in message
news:936gsv$3r1$1 at nnrp1.deja.com...
> Hello,
>
> I am making a program to find Fibonacci number sequences and I wanted to
> know, being fairly new at python, how to get it to open a window to ask
> for the input for the ranges of numbers that I want it to search
> between, as well as to save the output to a text file so taht I do not
> have to look at the window and copy/paste the numbers it returns, since

Writing to a file is very easy.  You open the file for writing with
fileobj = open(filename,"w"), then you can use its fileobj.write(s)
method to write any string s to it -- just build the string s as you
wish, e.g., str(anumber)+'\n' to emit the stringform of anumber
followed by an end-of-line.

As for a GUI, you have various choices, but Tkinter is probably the
simplest toolkit to use in your case (on a Mac).  I have no Tkinter
on Mac experience (no Mac experience at all, actually) so I'll
refrain from any specifics, just in case there are specific issues
I'm unaware of...


Alex





From fredrik at effbot.org  Sat Jan 13 12:49:37 2001
From: fredrik at effbot.org (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 17:49:37 GMT
Subject: Python 1.5.2/2.0  C extension type differences
References: <Fg086.1743$wt2.6000@news1.oke.nextra.no>
Message-ID: <Ry086.5866$Qb7.841107@newsb.telia.net>

Rolf Stadheim also forgot to look in the FAQ:
> error C2099: initializer is not a constant,
>
> Any comments/hints/help greatly appreciated!!!!

it's a compiler/platform specific problem.  see FAQ entry 3.24
for an explanation and two possible work-arounds:

    http://www.python.org/doc/FAQ.html#3.24
    3.24 "Initializer not a constant" while building DLL on
    MS-Windows

Cheers /F




From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Mon Jan 15 08:12:50 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 14:12:50 +0100
Subject: SQL-Statement with Python
References: <3A62E224.7AEE805E@students.uni-linz.ac.at>
Message-ID: <93ut4q031hd@news1.newsguy.com>

"Juergen Hofer" <juergen.hofer at students.uni-linz.ac.at> wrote in message
news:3A62E224.7AEE805E at students.uni-linz.ac.at...
> Hi to all!
>
> Is it possible to connect to a M$-Access Database (*.mdb) with Python
> and make simple SQL-Queries and import the results into a list?
> I'm using Python2.0 under Windows98.

Yes, it's pretty easy -- easiest with Microsoft's ADO, driven via
win32com (part of win32all -- you already have it if you got the
ActiveState distribution, but even if you started with the standard
distribution you probably want to add win32all anyway if you work
with Python under Windows... it has just too many nifty things!-).

For example, say you have the usual "NorthWinds" sample database
available as d:\mssdk\bin\nwind.mdb, and a reasonably late release
of the MS Data Access Components package (freely downloadable from
the MS site, also comes with just about any MS development product,
SDK, Office installation, etc).

import win32com.client

connection = win32com.client.Dispatch("AdoDb.Connection")
connection.Provider = "Microsoft.Jet.OLEDB.4.0"
filename = r'd:\\mssdk\\bin\\nwind.mdb'
connection.Open(filename)
recordset, result = connection.Execute(
  "Select FirstName, LastName From Employees Order By LastName")
rows = recordset.GetRows()
for first, last in zip(rows[0], rows[1]):
    print "%s, %s" % (last, first)

This should emit:

Buchanan, Steven
Callahan, Laura
Davolio, Nancy
Dodsworth, Anne
Fuller, Andrew
King, Robert
Leverling, Janet
Peacock, Margaret
Suyama, Michael


Of course, you can massage the recordset in a zillion ways,
specify where the cursor-caching occurs and how, etc, etc,
just as for any other use of ADO.  You'll find tons of docs,
info, tutorials, etc, about ADO, though they're often VB
or VBscript oriented (but pretty easy to read anyway).


Alex





From mrnolta at my-deja.com  Wed Jan 31 01:06:54 2001
From: mrnolta at my-deja.com (mrnolta at my-deja.com)
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 06:06:54 GMT
Subject: interactive test
Message-ID: <958a1s$kjb$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

Hi,

What's the appropriate way to test for an
interactive Python session? Right now I'm using:

	if sys.path[0] == '':
		interactive = 1

which works, but it's often screwed up by people
mangling the search path.

I tried testing the Py_InteractiveFlag global, but
that doesn't seem to work.

-Mike Nolta


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From dnew at san.rr.com  Sat Jan 13 16:47:26 2001
From: dnew at san.rr.com (Darren New)
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 21:47:26 GMT
Subject: Strange exceptions raised by os.renames and shutil.copytree
References: <93orei$sur$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <3A60CCF0.445FCEC4@san.rr.com>

> The second way I tried was using os.renames(), but that raised OSError
> [errno 13].  Now I realize that normally this would be resolved by
> making sure that all files in the directory being renamed were closed,
> but the problem is that I don't have any files open from the directory.
>  The only thing the program has done to the source directory up to that
> point is os.listdir() and os.path.isdir() on the directory.

Just a guess, but make sure your current directory isn't the directory
you're trying to rename before you try renaming it. os.path.listdir() might
leave you cwd set to what it listed or something?

-- 
Darren New / Senior MTS & Free Radical / Invisible Worlds Inc.
San Diego, CA, USA (PST).  Cryptokeys on demand.
   Crunching tiger, hidden dragon


From hancock at earthlink.net  Mon Jan 22 17:38:23 2001
From: hancock at earthlink.net (Terry Hancock)
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 14:38:23 -0800
Subject: Control of __doc__ strings
Message-ID: <3A6CB65F.EF260B6D@earthlink.net>

Following a previous thread on this list about
automatic documenters, I've tried a couple, 
and there seems to be a strong preference for
documentation strings over comments (they seem
to be easier to associate with the object they
describe, which makes sense to me).

Anyway, not being a "native python speaker" 
I used comments in most of my code.  So I changed
my comment blocks to doc strings and put them
in the right places to get captured by the
documenter ("Crystal" in this case).  But I'm
concerned about the performance penalties of
doing this.  A typical source module of mine
contains anywhere from 3 to 5 times as much text
in comment blocks as in the code, so if it's
all loaded at run time, my code is going to bloat
up several fold just because of the documentation.

(Comments are stripped out during byte-compilation,
whereas doc strings are kept at run time).

Does python have a way to shut off a piece of
code during byte-compiling (the way that a
#ifdef ... #endif block works in C)?  Then I
could just turn the doc strings off for deliverable
code and leave them in during development, which
would be kind of useful, and the documenters would
work right.

I thought of:

if <condition> :
    """
    Documentation block.  
    """

but this runs at run-time, therefore the string is
still included in the byte-compiled code (right?).

-- 
Terry Hancock
hancock at earthlink.net



From phawkins at spamnotconnact.com  Sat Jan 20 19:26:27 2001
From: phawkins at spamnotconnact.com (Patricia Hawkins)
Date: 20 Jan 2001 19:26:27 -0500
Subject: Strange variable scope... is this right?
References: <gcqp39.jkk.ln@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <wk4rytiwcs.fsf@mail.connact.com>

>>>>> "g" == gradha  <gradha at iname.com> writes:

g> I expected python to bark at me like C would, but from what I read in the
g> tutorials, this seems to be one of those variable scope issues, right?
g> AFAICS, python will create a different variable scope at both for's,
g> hence the possibility to reuse the variable name f, since it means a
g> different thing at each scope, being unavailable from outside it's scope.

Ahem! Woof, woof:

[pjh at judith pjh]$ cat scope.c
#include <stdio.h>
main()
{
  int a = 3;
  printf ("outer a: %i \n", a);
  {
           int a = 77;
           printf("inner a: %i \n", a);
  }
  printf ("bottom: outer a: %i \n", a);

}
[pjh at judith pjh]$ gcc scope.c
[pjh at judith pjh]$ ./a.out
outer a: 3 
inner a: 77 
bottom: outer a: 3 
[pjh at judith pjh]$ 

Are-there-no-c-programmers-among-us-ly yours, 
        Patricia
-- 
Patricia J. Hawkins
Hawkins Internet Applications, LLC




From thomas at xs4all.net  Mon Jan 29 05:53:31 2001
From: thomas at xs4all.net (Thomas Wouters)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 11:53:31 +0100
Subject: "in" for dicts (was: Python 2.1 function attributes)
In-Reply-To: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCEEOPILAA.tim.one@home.com>; from tim.one@home.com on Mon, Jan 29, 2001 at 04:24:22AM -0500
References: <9535qg$8mu@gap.cco.caltech.edu> <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCEEOPILAA.tim.one@home.com>
Message-ID: <20010129115331.S962@xs4all.nl>

On Mon, Jan 29, 2001 at 04:24:22AM -0500, Tim Peters wrote:
> [Nathaniel Gray]
> > ...
> > Nevertheless, there are still three big problems with "in" for
> > dictionaries:
> >
> > Number 1:  There is no reason, a priori, to think that "in dict" should
> > mean "in dict.keys()" rather than "in dict.values()" or even "in
> > dict.items()".  Explicit is better than implicit, right?
> 
> This is the reason Guido gave most often in previous years.  It appears
> that only professional debaters *believe* it, though <wink>.  That is, to
> the best of my knowledge, nobody ever claimed that they personally would
> mistake what
> 
>     if x in dict:
> 
> or
> 
>     for x in dict:
> 
> meant.  They're always worred that "somebody else" might not get it. 
> After a decade, it's increasingly hard to believe that set of
> supernaturally feeble users isn't empty.

Two of my colleagues (out of two interrogated) didn't quite get it. It's not
that they didn't understand the idea, but it wasn't quite what they
expected. They aren't quite feeble :) But it's also true that their
expectations were different in the 'for' case. 

My main beef with the 'x in dict' idea is something Nathaniel didn't raise,
though: we all seem to think 'x in dict' is naturally 'key in dict' -- but
why ? Is it because we all know you can't *get* a value from a dict without
extracting them all, and all values could be the same ? How obvious is that
to people without a technical idea of dictionaries ? What, exactly, is the
target group for Python ? :)

> > Number 5:  (three, sir)  Oh yes, number 3:  We've already got "for a_key
> > in dict.keys()"!
> 
> We still don't have anything else for 2.1; only "a_key in dict" in a
> *boolean* context has been implemented.  And, yes, we've already got
> dict.has_key(a_key) for that.  And, yes, Guido just *approved* of adding
> "for a_key in dict" too, although implementing that is a puzzle given the
> current iteration protocol's use of __getitem__ (it doesn't jibe with what
> dict.__getitem__ does), and "what to do" about programs that go mutating
> the dict during iteration.

I haven't seen Guido approve of 'for x in dict' yet, though. Was this in
private mail/conversations, or did the PSU try to prevent me from getting
*another* free alpha release plus sexy one-use license ? ;-) If Guido
did/does approve of 'for x in dict', it might be a good excuse to invent an
iteration protocol. Hacking the FOR_LOOP opcode to special case mapping
types isn't that hard, though it wouldn't be usable by class instances.

Further fleshing out of the iteration protocol would probably have to wait
until Python 2.2, if only for the fact it really needs a real PEP :)

-- 
Thomas Wouters <thomas at xs4all.net>

Hi! I'm a .signature virus! copy me into your .signature file to help me spread!



From cobrien at Radix.Net  Sat Jan  6 12:34:32 2001
From: cobrien at Radix.Net (Cary O'Brien)
Date: 6 Jan 2001 12:34:32 -0500
Subject: How robust is Python ?
References: <9365p9$s2k$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <mailman.978721929.3640.python-list@python.org> <mailman.978748447.21713.python-list@python.org> <mailman.978774489.6833.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <937kv8$2jo$1@saltmine.radix.net>

In article <mailman.978774489.6833.python-list at python.org>,
Moshe Zadka  <moshez at zadka.site.co.il> wrote:
>On Sat, 06 Jan 2001, rturpin at my-deja.com wrote:
>
>> In theory, that's an application flaw, rather than a
>> bug in the compiler or libraries. In practice, good
>> software engineering produces C/C++ programs that
>> very rarely dereference bad pointers. It's harder
>> and more work than development with Python.
>
>I have programmed in C/C++ and I know what I'm talking about. *Of course*
>you can have long running processes in C/C++: take things like Linux,
>which run for years with no problems. I'm just saying that making a C/C++
>app which runs without problems is much harder, so I would be less inclined
>to trust C in that role. Of course, other factors may decide the problem
>for me, such as in...
>

I have to agree with Moshe here.  I was on one project writing C
communications code using a real-time kernel [1].  We had a pretty
good team, but the system got to a point where we had to stop all new
feature development for nearly a month and do NOTHING but track down
pointer/stack problems.  OK, this was in an mmu-less environment, but
the fact is that this pretty good development team generated many,
many nasty pointer/stack bugs.

The point?  If you have to write something robust, you're better off
with a pointer-less language.

-- cary

[1] pSOS if anyone cares, running on a rack full of VME CPU cards.  Fun.


>> Keep in mind that Python *is* a C program.
>
>I know that. It's one of the few C programs which are being debugged daily
>by thousands of people around the world, with a very mature code base.
>I doubt many companies can expect to achieve this level of robustness
>for their apps.
>-- 
>Moshe Zadka <sig at zadka.site.co.il>
>This is a signature anti-virus. 
>Please stop the spread of signature viruses!
>



















From jasonic at nomadicsltd.com  Mon Jan 15 17:47:49 2001
From: jasonic at nomadicsltd.com (Jason Cunliffe)
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 17:47:49 -0500
Subject: Relational Databases and Python
References: <mailman.979589896.32678.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <t66va165k89b02@corp.supernews.com>

Greg

hmm... Sounds like a very interesting application.

Given all your criteria, I suggest you seriously look into Zope
http://www.zope.org

Zope is free, cross-platform, python-based, object-oriented web application
system.
It includes ZODB, an object database but can connect to other Database
solutions.
For your longterm interest in web interface/management, Zope may be perfect,
perhaps your immediate needs too..

There is a steep learning curve, and it may offer more than you need.
Like comp.lang.python, Zope has a good [mailing-list]community, and there
are some very useful contributed modules ['Products' in Zopespeak] which you
can install at any time. Else use python to develop your own tools.

Key reading can be found via:
http://www.zope.org/Documentation

especially the Zope Book [OReilly - soon published]
http://www.zope.org/Members/michel/ZB/

and an essential overview with links
http://itamarst.org/learningzope/index.html


Some Python programmers have recently been making concerted effort to
develop pure Pythonic alternatives to Zope, as well as allowing potent parts
of Zope as standalone for general Python customization.
For example the ZODB:  http://www.amk.ca/zodb/

Zope criticisms include lack of concise, friendly documentation, and too
much 'magic'-derived complexity. It is complex and has lacked for formal
documentation, but this is being improved now considerably. It is a very
powerful, and complexity partly flows from many permutations possible. Zope
is for dynamic webobject design, and uses 'Acquisition' [Zopespeak for a
form of online dynmaic inheritance] to achieve this. The containers of
'Folders' in the ZODB thus allow objects, methods, and sub-folders to
inherit behaviors and properties in a minimal context-oriented fashion.
Potent clever namespace stuff..  In fact one can acheieve much using default
out-of-the-box Zope features, and especially if you are already a Python
programmer.

IMO, one of the best things about Zope is that it can quickly be installed
and run on several machines, [say Win32 laptop] where one may develop a site
or part of. You can thus smoothly design, develop and demo sites 'offline'.
And also import or export some or all of your work as a single .zexp binary
file for immediate cross-platform use on another Zope installation, for
example the 'official' online Zope server installation running say a remote
Linux box.

Zope is intended for designer/developers who need to address 'customers who
have customers who have customers.." To my mind this translates very well
into community or collaborative type applications, especially where you wish
to reapply your work after initial trials, to allow other fire departments
to use it easily.

hth+good luck!

- Jason
___________________________________________________________
Jason CUNLIFFE = NOMADICS['Interactive Art and Technology']

glinds - Greg Lindstrom <glinds at acxiom.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.979589896.32678.python-list at python.org...
> Greetings-
>
> I am wanting to access a relational database via Python.  Knowing that a
> "simple" query such as "Why no "do until" statement" can generate replies
> for months, I offer the following:
>
> * What relational database to use?  I am constructing a routine to
> track incident reports for the volunteer fire department I run with.  I
also
> want to track personnel information, training records, equipment, etc.  It
> will be a small to medium database (the databases I work with
professionally
> run in the terabytes, but we spend millions on software).  I am looking at
> MySQL.  Whatever base I use must be free.
> * How to access the database?  I would like to use SQL via ODBC.  I
> have attempted to install the mxODBC module, but have run into trouble
with
> the first step (get and install mxDateTime).  That's not a good sign.  I
> would like a simple communication to the  database (else I will write a
"C"
> routine to do it for me!).  What's out there?
> * With an eye to the future, I would like to write a Web-based system
> so that I can offer this system to other volunteer departments in the
> county.  We simply cannot afford $2500+ for reporting software (that will
> fully outfit 2 firefighters including SCBA (breathing equipment) and PASS
(a
> safety device)).  Though I have talked with a couple of companies offering
a
> "volunteer rate", we simply cannot afford to spend that kind of money on
> software.  How do I get started writing web apps?  I have good friends at
> work telling me that Perl is the way to go; I program both, but am partial
> to Python.
>
> Thanks to any and all offering suggestions.
>
> Greg Lindstrom, FF/FR
> Vilonia Volunteer Fire Department
> Vilonia, Arkansas (that's 30 miles North of Little Rock)





From dalke at acm.org  Fri Jan 12 00:13:22 2001
From: dalke at acm.org (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 22:13:22 -0700
Subject: Python language suggestion
References: <93l4ve$no3$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <3A5E1D2B.1DC60661@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <93m3r6$fuj$1@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net>

Erik Max Francis wrote in message <3A5E1D2B.1DC60661 at alcyone.com>...
>Chris Ryland wrote:
  ...
>> I realize that foo['bar bletch'] is just as good for dictionary-like
>> objects, but foo.'bar bletch' would be very much more attractive in
>> one
>> application I'm considering (
 ...
>This does not sound like a good idea.  Indexes of an object which
>supports __getitem__ are totally independent of the attributes which
>that object may have; comingling them with a similar syntax doesn't seem
>like it would gain anything except confusion.
>
>I mean, really -- is it that much easier to write object.key instead of
>object[key]?

I believe he means
  foo.'bar bletch'
as an alternate way of doing
  getattr(foo, 'bar bletch')

not as foo['bar bletch']

I'm mulling it over.  There's at least one place I know where
it would be useful.  Consider when you have an attribute which
is the same as a Python reserved word, like print.  (This happens
with interfaces to libraries written in other languages.)
  x.print
will fail.  The normal workaround is to append an '_', as in
  x.print_
This proposal would instead allow it to work as
  x.'print'

Hmm.  Would x.'a' 'b' 'c' be the same as x.'abc'?  Yeah,
I guess so.

BTW, in the 4 years I've been reading this group I don't think
I've seen this proposal come up.  I'm glad you didn't mention
(fill-in-suggestion-which-I-won't-mention-for-fear-of-a-two-
week-long-rehash-of-threads-hashed-to-death-years-ago :)

                    Andrew
                    dalke at acm.org





From donn at u.washington.edu  Tue Jan 23 16:18:45 2001
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: 23 Jan 2001 21:18:45 GMT
Subject: sockets: client dies...
References: <94kmt5$cuj$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <94ksfl$r2a$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>

Quoth Keith Murphy <kpmurphy at my-deja.com>:
| what can you do when the client dies in a client/server socket
| relationship?  currently, my problem is that the server doesn't know
| when a client has terminated unexpectedly.  is there any way to do so?

Ideally, that will close the socket.  If that happens, then the
socket becomes "readable" - that is, a recv() will return immediately
without blocking, returning '' (empty string.)   (I'm assuming the
socket is blocking, per default.)

I don't know any way to tell the difference between "closed" and "has
data", prior to calling recv().  But you can tell the difference between
readable and "would block" prior to recv(), with select().

If the client dies and the socket doesn't close, then it may be worth
while to figure out why it doesn't.

	Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu


From beazley at cs.uchicago.edu  Mon Jan 29 10:42:55 2001
From: beazley at cs.uchicago.edu (David Beazley)
Date: 29 Jan 2001 09:42:55 -0600
Subject: CFP: O'Reilly Open Source Convention, Feb. 1
Message-ID: <ausd7d6icu8.fsf@gargoyle.cs.uchicago.edu>

	      ====== DEADLINE : February 1, 2001 ======

		    *** CALL FOR PARTICIPATION ***

		   O'Reilly Open Source Convention

			   July 23-27, 2001
			San Diego, California

			 *** Python Track ***


O'Reilly & Associates is pleased to announce the 3rd annual Open
Source Convention. This event is the central gathering place for the
Open Source community to exchange ideas, techniques, and to advance
the language. The Open Source Convention is a five-day event designed
for programmers, developers, and technical staff involved in Open
Source technology and its applications. The convention will be held at
the Sheraton San Diego Hotel and Marina, San Diego, California, July
23-27, 2001.

The program committee of the Python track invites submissions of
tutorial and convention presentation on topics of interest to
Python programmers.  

Tutorial Presentations
----------------------
The first two days of the convention are devoted to tutorials.
Tutorial proposals must include the following:

  -  Tutorial length (3 or 6 hours)
  -  Target audience including any recommended prerequisites.
  -  What attendees will learn.
  -  Tutorial outline--a short bullet list description of the
     course itself.
  -  Speaker name
  -  Speaker biography
  -  Complete speaker contact information.

The program committee particularly encourages the submission of
tutorials that are designed to present core Python topics to a
technically sophisticated audience (i.e., tutorials should favor
technical depth versus advocacy and high-level overviews).

Conference Presentations
------------------------
Convention proposals will be considered for the following types of
talks:

  -  Focused discussions related to a specific Python technology or
     programming technique.  Typical examples might include
     extension building, internationalization, programming with 
     threads, Tkinter, and XML.

  -  New product/technology demonstrations.

  -  Panel discussions.

  -  Applications and case studies that describe the use of Python
     in real-world applications. 

Convention proposals must include the following:

  -  Type of talk -- technology, new product, panel, or case-study.
  -  Title of talk or demonstration.
  -  Abstract of talk, maximum of 250 words.
  -  Speaker name.
  -  Speaker biography.
  -  Complete speaker contact information.

Submissions of novel and unusual Python applications are particularly
encouraged.  Presentations by marketing staff or with a marketing
focus will not be accepted.

Submitting Your Proposal
------------------------
All proposals must be sent to oscon2001-proposals at oreilly.com

Proposals should be sent in plain text with no attachments. Submit one
proposal per email.  The subject line of your email must follow this
format:

Last name: proposal type: proposal title

For example:

   Johnson: Tutorial: Advanced Python Programming

You will receive an automatic confirmation upon receipt of each 
proposal.

Important Dates
---------------

Tutorial and presentation proposals due:   February 1, 2001
Notification to presenters             :   March 1, 2001
Tutorial presentations due             :   May 1, 2001
Convention presentations due           :   June 1, 2001

More Information
----------------
More information about the convention can be found at:

    http://conferences.oreilly.com/oscon2001

Specific questions concerning the Python track can be sent
via e-mail to ora-python-pc at cs.uchicago.edu.

Python Track Program Committee
------------------------------
Jason Asbahr, Origin/Electronic Arts
David Ascher, ActiveState
David Beazley, University of Chicago, Chair
Paul Dubois, Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory
Jeremy Hylton, Digital Creations
Andrew Kuchling, MEMS Exchange
Fredrik Lundh, Secret Labs AB/PythonWare
Tim Peters, Digital Creations
Andy Robinson, ReportLab
Greg Stein, Technical Advisor, ActiveState
Guido van Rossum, Digital Creations
Aaron Watters, ReportLab








From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Thu Jan  4 04:39:49 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 10:39:49 +0100
Subject: why no "do : until"?
References: <92jj3j$ff7$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <slrn94shbe.150.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <X8s36.2731$Qb7.305339@newsb.telia.net> <slrn94smds.150.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <FOt36.17$vd1.2224@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com> <slrn94t1vj.150.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <3A4E95FD.D6C737A7@engcorp.com> <slrn94tqkh.150.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <tpr46.7782$4c.597534@ruti.visi.com> <slrn954h6p.rgv.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <3A52AD6A.62D043A2@engcorp.com> <3A534367.36B1FD18@uswest.net> <slrn957j19.go.amk@207-172-36-81.s81.tnt6.ann.va.dialup.rcn.com> <3A53F4B1.6227D241@uswest.net>
Message-ID: <931gf302dsi@news2.newsguy.com>

"Bjorn Pettersen" <pbjorn at uswest.net> wrote in message
news:3A53F4B1.6227D241 at uswest.net...
    [snip]
> If what you want to do can't be expressed directly in the language, and
> the only reason people don't want to change it is because they're used to
> the status quo, I feel justified in calling it a holy cow ;-)

The "if-then" construct is reasonable; as the antecedent is false,
of course, this sillogism tells us nothing about the consequent.

MY "only reason" not to want ad-hoc 'expressions' to be added to
Python is hardly "because I'm used to the status quo" -- I have
barely more than a year's worth of Python experience, and much,
MUCH more experience in a huge variety of other programming
languages -- from a Fortran that wasn't _quite_ up to Fortran IV
standards, to C# (just chronologically mind you -- lots of 'older'
languages such as Haskell are obviously much 'newer' than C#!-).

Even today, the amount of somewhat-C-ish-syntax code I write and
maintain on a daily basis (C, C++, Java, C#, Javascript...) is
higher than the amount I get to write and maintain in Python.  So,
it would be utterly silly to claim that I'm somehow more "used"
to the lack of do/while forms than to its presence -- not to speak
of the even more absurd claim that such totally phantomatic 'being
used to' is the "only" reason for my preferences.

I wouldn't mind it, in the abstract, if some backwards-incompatible
Python successor adopted a better syntax for its general loops, on
the lines originally suggested by Knuth 27 years ago:
    loop <condition1>:
        <suite1>
    while <condition2>:
        <suite2>
with the 'obvious' ability to elide unused parts.  It's unlikely to
happen, if nothing else because the extremely slight syntax-sugar
advantage of such general syntax is a TINY plus over today's
existing syntax for the identical semantics:
    while <condition1>:
        <suite1>
        if not <condition2>: break
        <suite2>
and no doubt the plus is so small as to not justify the pragmatical
cost of having to change mountains of existing, working code.  Oh well.


I *WOULD* mind, *A LOT*, if, rather than regularizing syntax for the
general form of loop, Python were to add other special-cases with
their own syntax variations.  *SIMPLICITY*!  *ONE* general loop form
(plus the enormously-useful 'for' loop, for the extremely frequent
case where the items in a sequence are what we're looping on) is just
right.  Every language (every programming system) tends to accumulate
'features' with time -- perhaps because, in each single case, it may
seem less trouble to give in to the vocal minority clamoring for 'just
one more addition for expressiveness', than to fight to keep the
overall system *SMALL AND SIMPLE*.  End results: PL/I, Ada, C++, Perl...

The "just a little mint" syndrome needs eternal vigilance to fight
against it -- despite Guido's superb stewardship, even Python can
fall prey to it, as witness the horrid 'print>>' blotch.  Which is
why many of us take the trouble to argue against each and every one
of the "little extra features" which keep being proposed on this
group, striving to show they are not warranted -- to *KEEP IT SIMPLE*.

Sometimes we manage to convince the current one in the endless stream
of 'enhancers' that Python is actually better off *staying SIMPLE*,
because its existing mechanisms afford perfectly acceptable solutions;
sometimes we don't -- them's the breaks.  As long as the slide towards
more and more language complexity is resisted, by pre-empting the
formation of a consensus towards complexification, I still think my
time and energy well spent.


Alex





From curtissol at my-deja.com  Tue Jan  2 00:37:36 2001
From: curtissol at my-deja.com (curtissol at my-deja.com)
Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2001 05:37:36 GMT
Subject: Error using sys.stdin.read()
Message-ID: <92rpf1$78r$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

Any attempt to use the attribute "read" as in:

import sys
    while 1:
        next = sys.stdin.read()     # read a one-character string
        if not next:                 # or an empty string at eof
            break
    #process "next"

fails on the use of "sys.stdin.read()" with the message:

"AttributeError: 'PyShell' instance has no attribute 'read' "

I am using Python 2.0 on NT 4.5 on a PC. It's as if 'read' does not
exist.

Thank you




Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Jan 19 09:15:17 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 15:15:17 +0100
Subject: Python COM and DCOM.
References: <3RV96.10957$wt2.125028@news1.oke.nextra.no>
Message-ID: <949ion0v1@news1.newsguy.com>

"Syver Enstad" <syver at NOSPAMcyberwatcher.com> wrote in message
news:3RV96.10957$wt2.125028 at news1.oke.nextra.no...
> I am having a bit of a problem getting a python COM object to work over
> DCOM.
>
> As far as I can see I've done exactly what is proposed in the Python on
> Win32 book. But the object is started on the local machine, when using
> win32com.client.Dispatch or the default instance creation methods in other
> languages such as JScript with ASP and C++. It seems like DCOM works when
> using the DispatchEx to explicitly choose the machine to run on but not
> else.
>
> Help very much appreciated, thank you.

If you register a COM object as having different servers (in-process,
local aka out-of-process, remote), the fastest one of these will
always be used by 'default instance creation methods' in all
languages.  You will need to de-register the 'faster' (in-process,
local) servers if you want 'slower' servers to be used for such
default creation.

Or else (not available from all languages) you can explicitly ask
for the kind of server you want by passing appropriate values from
the CLSCTX enumeration:

typedef enum tagCLSCTX
{
    CLSCTX_INPROC_SERVER    = 1,
    CLSCTX_INPROC_HANDLER   = 2,
    CLSCTX_LOCAL_SERVER     = 4,
    CLSCTX_REMOTE_SERVER    = 16,
    CLSCTX_NO_CODE_DOWNLOAD = 400,
    CLSCTX_NO_FAILURE_LOG = 4000
} CLSCTX;
#define CLSCTX_SERVER    (CLSCTX_INPROC_SERVER | CLSCTX_LOCAL_SERVER |
CLSCTX_REMOTE_SERVER)
#define CLSCTX_ALL       (CLSCTX_INPROC_HANDLER | CLSCTX_SERVER)

to whatever activation API (CoCreateInstance, CoCreateInstanceEx,
CoGetClassObject, etc.) is being used to activate the object --
not all languages will expose their mechanisms for object
activation allowing such fine-grained control, though.


Alex





From paulp at ActiveState.com  Fri Jan 19 16:46:15 2001
From: paulp at ActiveState.com (Paul Prescod)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 13:46:15 -0800
Subject: BeOpen 2.0 vs ActiveState?
References: <6176E3D8E36FD111B58900805FA7E0F80CCF62DE@mcnc-mdm1-ex01>
Message-ID: <3A68B5A7.D73768C7@ActiveState.com>

"Rolander, Dan" wrote:
> 
> I'd like to hear your thoughts on the two different Win32 distributions,
> BeOpen vs. ActiveState. Why should I choose one over the other? The
> ActiveState distro is nice to include some of the critical Win32 extensions,
> but the thing I don't like about it is the requirement for an agreement with
> them to redistribute. If I'm building solutions for others and want to
> distribute the Python libraries along with my source code, I don't want to
> have to get permission from ActiveState to do that first.

You do not need permission from ActiveState to distribute parts of the
Python library. You only need permission to re-distribute the
ActiveState package itself.

 Paul Prescod



From alex116321 at my-deja.com  Fri Jan  5 10:26:54 2001
From: alex116321 at my-deja.com (alex116321 at my-deja.com)
Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 15:26:54 GMT
Subject: Memory leak
References: <92t8gp$blv$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <1103_978530180@display_02>
Message-ID: <934p3k$k6j$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

This is exactly what I am doing except I don't call Py_Finalize until
the program is terminated.  Instead, I call the Python script over and
over again to perform a certain function.  This seems to eat away at my
resources and over time, the program may crash.

Alex

In article <1103_978530180 at display_02>,
  Patrick Blanchette <pblanchette at pixelsystems.com> wrote:
> I experienced a similar problem when I run script that use the win32
extension embeded in a server.
> When I call the Py_Finalize method, the memory is not free
completely.
> I think the Patch #101713 talk about this problem.  It seems that
python have problem
> handling multiple Py_Initialize and Py_Finalise when extension are
used.
>
> I hope this problem will be corrected soon.
>
> On Tue, 02 Jan 2001 19:00:48 GMT, alex116321 at my-deja.com wrote:
> > I am experiencing memory leakage when using Python and COM.
> > Specifically, I am using the Micosoft XML Parser to load and
traverse
> > XML DOM stuctures.  Everytime I access an XML node, more memory is
> > consumed.  After a while, this can eat away most of the system
> > resources if the Python session is not terminated.  Here is a simple
> > example (assume the interpreter is used as a server and does not
exit):
> >
> > ############################################
> > #Note: using del doesn't seem to help
> > ############################################
> > import win32com.client
> >
> > o = win32com.client.Dispatch("microsoft.xmldom")
> > o.loadXML("<test/>")
> >
> > for idx in range(50000):
> > 	node = o.selectSingleNode("//test")
> >
> > #############################################
> >
> > Any suggestions would be appreciated.
> >
> >
> >
> > Sent via Deja.com
> > http://www.deja.com/
>
>


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From fredrik at effbot.org  Sun Jan 28 10:19:54 2001
From: fredrik at effbot.org (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 15:19:54 GMT
Subject: Tkinter vs wxPython: your opinions?
References: <3A6F899F.E164F628@home.com> <94qeme$ep4$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <3A7135C8.38D65D34@proceryon.at>
Message-ID: <uMWc6.9628$Qb7.1429816@newsb.telia.net>

Horst Gassner wrote:
> Tkinter 3000 raised my hopes because it should be 2-10 times faster in
> "a typical application". But when will the first final release be
> available? How much is the perfomance boost for canvas widgets (I use
> them in my table and tree widget)?

Tkinter performance is tricky, since there are so many parts
involved.

-- Data conversion (from Python objects to Tcl/Tk objects)
is expensive.  Some tips:

- Use move/scale to modify canvas items instead of
  delete/create.
- To temporarily hide a canvas item, move it outside
  the view, instead of deleting it.
- Reuse photoimage objects.
- Pass integers instead of floating point values.
- Use tags to apply operations to groups of items.

(Tkinter 3000 notes: the new binding layer use a couple of
tricks to speed up the data conversion between 2-10 times.
If you need more speed, you have to roll your own WCK-
based widget.  The WCK drawing layer uses Python objects
directly)

-- The canvas widget doesn't redraw itself immediately
after changes.   Instead, it waits until you get back to
the event loop, just in case you need to do more changes.
Adding a call to update_idletasks() can really speed things
up here.

(Tkinter 3000 notes: the new bindings won't help here.
However, WCK widgets can redraw themselves when-
ever they want).

-- The canvas is double-buffered.  Tk draws the content to
a pixmap before copying things to the screen.  This can be
costly, especially if you're using large canvases.

(one related problem is that if you're making small updates
in different parts of the canvas at the same time, Tkinter
may have to redraw everything in between as well.  Again,
calling update_idletasks() after you've updated each region
can help).

(Tkinter 3000 notes: WCK widgets don't have to use double-
buffering -- and if they do, they don't have to use double-
buffering on the entire widget).

:::

As for a release date, the current WCK preview sure qualifies
as "usable".  I hope to have an alpha out there before the end
of this month, and don't expect the move to "1.0" to take more
than a few weeks.

(fwiw, the API hasn't changed since the last preview, so you
can treat the preview as "alpha 0" if you want...)

Cheers /F




From debl at NONOtheworldSpammy.com  Mon Jan  1 19:56:16 2001
From: debl at NONOtheworldSpammy.com (David Lees)
Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2001 00:56:16 GMT
Subject: Newbie + Linux + Apache + CGI + Python = Problem
References: <_T746.964$Gf6.14504@news3.voicenet.com>
Message-ID: <3A51272F.DCD56113@NONOtheworldSpammy.com>

You might try changing the name to a .py extension and looking at it
with your browser, just to see that it is getting to python properly. 
Also, there are error logs for apache somewhere (I forget, where) that
let you look at Python stack returns.  Real helpful for telling what is
going on in cgi stuff.

I am a newbie too, but I did get the simple stuff from:
http://www.devshed.com/Server_Side/Python/CGI/page1.html
which it looks like your example may have come from, to work.

david lees



"John F." wrote:
> 
> I am new to Linux and am trying to get a simple CGI script using Python to
> work.  The attachment hello2.cgi is the one.  The file hellop.cgi is the
> Perl analog and it works FINE.
> 
> The Apache manuals say if I see the "headers incomplete" message the script
> is bombing, but when it is run using the python command, IT WORKS.
> 
> Facts:
> 
> [1] Perl and Python script have SAME permissions and owner.
> 
> [2] Perl script runs as CGI by browsing localhost/cgi-bin/hellop.cgi
> 
> [3] mod-perl is installed but mod-python is NOT.
> 
> [4] in the cgi-bin dir I can execute the perl script at console with:
> ./hellop.cgi
> 
> [5] in the cgi-bin dir I can NOT execute the python script with:
> ./hello2.cgi  I get that it cannot find the file, BUT if I put a bogus
> command option after #!/usr/bin/python it FAILS with a Python usage prompt,
> so bash is finding python (and it is in the $PATH so it SHOULD).
> 
> I suspect I have some .conf somewhere I need to set to allow ./hello2.cgi to
> work in cgi-bin AND something else for APache.
> 
> Help please....
> 
> - John
> 
>                  Name: hellop.cgi
>    hellop.cgi    Type: unspecified type (application/octet-stream)
>              Encoding: x-uuencode
> 
>                  Name: hello2.cgi
>    hello2.cgi    Type: unspecified type (application/octet-stream)
>              Encoding: x-uuencode
> 
> [Mon Jan  1 09:40:15 2001] [error] (2)No such file or directory: exec of /home/httpd/cgi-bin/hello2.cgi failed
> [Mon Jan  1 09:40:15 2001] [error] [client 127.0.0.1] Premature end of script headers: /home/httpd/cgi-bin/hello2.cgi


From thelazydogsback at my-deja.com  Thu Jan 18 23:15:10 2001
From: thelazydogsback at my-deja.com (thelazydogsback at my-deja.com)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 04:15:10 GMT
Subject: I will kill my Python
References: <mailman.979852022.13720.python-list@python.org> <947r18$rdt$1@news.online.de>
Message-ID: <948f09$i96$1@nnrp1.deja.com>


Certainly the tone of the original message warrants both replies that
were given - I'm surprised there weren't more...

OTOH, I think the issue that was so poorly raised is an important one -
that for Phython to have the greatest reach (it is certainly useful
right now, as has been shown by it's many applications), it needs to be
more than a great and pure language, but be a "solution" for people.
(Including things like deployment options, etc.) As a person evaluating
Python myself (a post with a hopefully more approacable manner
forthcoming) I think these are important considerations. (As are
performance, debuggers, ease of setup and configuration, understanding
integration and interoperability issues, etc.)

On a related topic, I've seen some Microsoft bashing here as well (not
just this post.) There's certainly nothing wrong with that (It's a
profession for some) but I must say that in some cases it reduces
Python's credibility. I want to see people using it because it works
for them, not just because they hate the evil Micro$oft and would
rather code with toggle-switches than use anything built even 500 miles
from Redmond. Just some thoughts...

thanks,
mike

In article <947r18$rdt$1 at news.online.de>,
  "Nils Hensel" <nils.hensel at online.de> wrote:
> If an exe is your single concern then perhaps you should better stick
with
> VB.
>
> Nils
>
> "Bruno Schaefer" <bup.schaefer at planet-interkom.de> schrieb im
Newsbeitrag
> news:mailman.979852022.13720.python-list at python.org...
> > Hi all, I have written a nice Python application with TKinter. And
it
> > works fine.Yes. But now I want to build an exe, but - o what ashit
> > with that installer, builder, simple - confuing thing. I have spent
> > many hours with blood and tears, but o what a shit, ugly shit :
> > nothing works:  The end of all
> > I give it up. I will kill my python. Its easier with a dummy-xy-
Basic
> > to make an exe as with this shit-modern-"oh what an easy nice
> > language"-Python.
> >
> > Not with me.
> >
> > Yeah, python is easy and nice, the pure language, but the rest...
> >
> > goodby, I'am going to look for another real easy animal !
> >
> >
> > B.Schaefer
> >
> >
>
>


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From scarblac at pino.selwerd.nl  Wed Jan 17 09:32:48 2001
From: scarblac at pino.selwerd.nl (Remco Gerlich)
Date: 17 Jan 2001 14:32:48 GMT
Subject: Binary list class, strings or longs?
References: <942cbc$7qp$1@news.gu.se>
Message-ID: <slrn96bauk.hsv.scarblac@pino.selwerd.nl>

vague <msandin at remove_this.hotmail.com> wrote in comp.lang.python:
> Is there anyone who knows if there's a class somewhere that lets me handle
> binary objects/streams in Python in a simple way? One possible
> implementation would be to have it wrap the string type. I'd like to be able
> to perform binary arithmetics on arbitary parts of the objects (as in not
> only on byte boundaries or on byte lengths). I would have use for it for
> image manipulation in combining bitmasks.

You want to store the binary stream as a string, and then use the struct
module to translate parts of it to integers and back. You can only do the
arithmetic on numbers, but the struct module can translate bytes from a
string quickly. See the library reference.

Depending on what you want to do, it might be easier to simply use the
Python Imaging Library, http://www.secretlabs.com/products/pil/index.htm .

And lastly, maybe NumPy is easier for applying a filter to a large matrix of
data, but I don't know, never used it. Something to keep in mind though.

-- 
Remco Gerlich


From thomas at xs4all.net  Wed Jan 24 18:19:07 2001
From: thomas at xs4all.net (Thomas Wouters)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 00:19:07 +0100
Subject: unpack sequence to tuple?
In-Reply-To: <94mk4k$vhh$1@nnrp1.deja.com>; from nielsenjf@my-deja.com on Wed, Jan 24, 2001 at 01:08:39PM +0000
References: <94j6j1$3na$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <mailman.980234666.18231.python-list@python.org> <94jjtb0108j@news1.newsguy.com> <94kf4n$58u$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <94krq40bh6@news2.newsguy.com> <94mk4k$vhh$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <20010125001906.C962@xs4all.nl>

On Wed, Jan 24, 2001 at 01:08:39PM +0000, John Nielsen wrote:

> Is there any reason for extend versus +=?

If you have += at all, no. .extend() and += are largely the same function,
just two tiny wrappers to cover the slight differences. (.extend(), because
it's a method, needs to handle arguments itself.) .extend() has the obvious
advantage that it works in older versions of Python as well, though only
with listtypes.

> It's odd python 2.0 has what seems like really subtle changes at first.
> But, when you start using those changes, you begin to see how they
> really help.

The reason that 2.0 contains so much of those subtle changes is that
(relatively) large parts of the code were rewritten or altered by a large
group of new volunteers. Between 1.5.2 and 2.0 Python development switched
to Sourceforge, allowing a whole slew of new developers to join in, and let
me tell you, there's nothing as stimulating as feeling appreciated, at least
to us unknown hackers :-)

2.1 contains a whole lot more of those subtle fixes. Little annoying things
that noone (read: not Guido :) bothered to fix before. (And also some nice
large architectural changes, of course :)

-- 
Thomas Wouters <thomas at xs4all.net>

Hi! I'm a .signature virus! copy me into your .signature file to help me spread!



From thomas at xs4all.net  Tue Jan 30 04:41:59 2001
From: thomas at xs4all.net (Thomas Wouters)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 10:41:59 +0100
Subject: PyArg_Parse vs. PyArg_ParseTuple?
In-Reply-To: <BLEOJGEMBNBNEAKMIFDHAEOBPHAA.dbrueck@edgix.com>; from dbrueck@edgix.com on Mon, Jan 29, 2001 at 10:09:32AM -0700
References: <poYc6.30$X6.23266@ruti.visi.com> <BLEOJGEMBNBNEAKMIFDHAEOBPHAA.dbrueck@edgix.com>
Message-ID: <20010130104159.D962@xs4all.nl>

On Mon, Jan 29, 2001 at 10:09:32AM -0700, Dave Brueck wrote:

> Hopefully someone will correct me if I'm too far off..

You're not too far off. PyArg_Parse isn't documented because it is obsolete.
Don't use it. 

-- 
Thomas Wouters <thomas at xs4all.net>

Hi! I'm a .signature virus! copy me into your .signature file to help me spread!



From LangaK at discoveryhealth.co.za  Wed Jan 17 03:37:25 2001
From: LangaK at discoveryhealth.co.za (Langa Kentane)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 10:37:25 +0200
Subject: parsing a file [newbie]
Message-ID: <A69BC9CA4B39D411BF2200105A45B45B075B8C47@dhexchange.discoveryhealth.co.za>

How do I read a file.
This is what I want to do. 
Run a command using os.popen and store the file info that it returns to x
Open file x and read the contents.[ contents of x will be a mount output.]
Go to the third column of the mount output and and store in y

How would I go about doing this.

__________________________________________________________
Langa Kentane		| TEL: (011) 290 3218
Security Administrator	| Cell: 082 606 1515
DISCOVERY HEALTH		| http://www.discoveryhealth.co.za
__________________________________________________________________




From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Jan  5 12:14:47 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 18:14:47 +0100
Subject: Iterating over multiple lists (a newbie question)
References: <3a539f3a.445366109@localhost> <3a54d0c5.523585234@localhost>
Message-ID: <934vg102vis@news2.newsguy.com>

"Victor Muslin" <victor at prodigy.net> wrote in message
news:3a54d0c5.523585234 at localhost...
    [snip]
> Suppose I want to parse command line arguments (never mind getops,
> since this could be some other situation not involving command line
> arguments). Here is how I could possibly parse command line arguments
> for command: "myprog -port 10 -debug":

If the situation does not involve command line arguments, its
general case would seem to be:
    -- I start with a list of strings, X
    -- I would like to make a list of strings, Y,
        which is the same as X _except_ that:
        -- for certain strings (say those in a set S),
        -- if a string in S is found as the non-last
            item of X,
        -- then I want to make the corresponding
            item of Y by "merging" that string in
            S with the following one in X

Applied to your example, that would make a list
X=['-port', '10', '-debug'] into another list
Y=['-port 10', '-debug'] (using ' ' as a separator
for the "merging") which you can then parse more
easily.  OK, then, one possibility:

def mergeSome(X, S, joiner=' '):
    Y=[]
    joinnext=0
    for x in X:
        if joinnext:
            Y[-1] += joiner+x
            joinnext=0
        else:
            Y.append(x)
            joinnext = x in S
    return Y

or, if one prefers to work with indices:

def mergeSome(X, S, joiner=' '):
    Y=[]
    i=0
    while i<len(X)-1:
        x = X[i]
        if x in S:
            Y.append(x+X[i+1])
            i += 2
        else:
            Y.append(x)
            i += 1
    if i<len(X):
        Y.append(X[i])
    return Y


Alex





From scarblac at pino.selwerd.nl  Thu Jan 11 15:18:39 2001
From: scarblac at pino.selwerd.nl (Remco Gerlich)
Date: 11 Jan 2001 20:18:39 GMT
Subject: Reflection: Calling Methods Dynamically by Name
References: <93jfur$9rj$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <93jken$pnr$1@news.inet.co.th> <mailman.979217489.1764.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrn95s51c.8pl.scarblac@pino.selwerd.nl>

D-Man <dsh8290 at rit.edu> wrote in comp.lang.python:
> On Thu, Jan 11, 2001 at 01:41:34PM +0700, Prateep Siamwalla wrote:
> | You will want to use getattr() and apply()
> 
> Is it better to use getattr() and apply() than to use exec?

Yes.

> For example,
> 
> mc = MyClass()
> funcname = "ProcessData"
> args = ("Data", 1, 3)
> exec( "mc." + funcname + "('Data' , 1 , 3 ) " )

Here, a new string is constructed, the string must be parsed (something that
usually only occurs at compile time), and then the tuple (that you just
converted to a string) must be built up from the string again.
Then it calls getattr() and apply(), basically.

And you don't get the return value of the method (although eval() would give
you that).

And if the string didn't have 'Data' but 
"Data'); import os; os.system('rm -r ~') #"
you might have yourself a security problem.

Situations where exec is the natural solution are pretty rare.

-- 
Remco Gerlich


From garabik at center.fmph.uniba.sk.spam  Wed Jan 17 07:55:44 2001
From: garabik at center.fmph.uniba.sk.spam (Radovan Garabik)
Date: 17 Jan 2001 12:55:44 GMT
Subject: gettings mounted file systems [newbie]
References: <A69BC9CA4B39D411BF2200105A45B45B075B8C44@dhexchange.discoveryhealth.co.za> <mailman.979718839.23204.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9444og$h7s$1@sunnews.cern.ch>

Moshe Zadka <moshez at zadka.site.co.il> wrote:
 : On Wed, 17 Jan 2001, Langa Kentane <LangaK at discoveryhealth.co.za> wrote:
 :> Greetings gurus.
 :> 
 :> I am trying to find a way how I can get a list of mounted file systems using
 :> python.
 :> How would I go about doing this? I have looked into the documentation and
 :> have not found anything to help.

 : Why not parse /etc/mtab?

maybe because it is linuxism?
it does not exist in BSD, neither in solaris, hpux, etc...
basically, you have no easy portable way, except of
walking through all possible mount points and checking
os.path.ismount()


-- 
 -----------------------------------------------------------
| Radovan Garabik  http://melkor.dnp.fmph.uniba.sk/~garabik |
| __..--^^^--..__         garabik @ fmph . uniba . sk       |
 -----------------------------------------------------------


From sheila at thinkspot.net  Wed Jan 10 02:20:56 2001
From: sheila at thinkspot.net (Sheila King)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 07:20:56 GMT
Subject: Running cgi-scripts on my home Apache server
Message-ID: <j92o5t4gde98rlaca47mdglnsdc7uruo3c@4ax.com>

OK, can anyone help me with this?

I have Apache installed on a Win98 machine.
I would like to run cgi scripts.

I put a script pytestscript.py in my cgi-bin and typed:

http://127.0.0.1/cgi-bin/pytestscript.py

I get a 500 Internal Server error, and the error logs state:
"(2)No such file or directory: couldn't spawn child process:
e:/apache/cgi-bin/pytestscript.py"

I have Python in my DOS path (i.e. in the autoexec.bat file).

Just to test out whether I could get cgi-scripts to run at all, I created a
file which I named "list.bat" with these contents:

dir


and when I enter
http://127.0.0.1/cgi-bin/list.bat

it gives a directory listing of the cgi-bin directory, so cgi scripts are
working. I guess I'm just not invoking python properly? How would one do this
on a Windows/DOS system?

Here is the script in question:
---------------------------------------
#! /usr/bin/python

print "Content-type: text/html\n\n"

print "<html>\n"

print "<Head>"
print "<Title>Obligatory Python Test Script</Title>"
print "</Head>\n"

print "<Body>\n"
print "<H3>Hello</H3>"
print "<b>This is the obligatory<br> Python 'Hello\' test script<br></b>"
print "<i>Ta-da</i>"

print "</body>\n</html>"

---------------------------------------

I've run the script successfully on my website. It's here:
http://www.thinkspot.net/cgi-bin/pytestscript.py

so I know the script works. My host is running Linux/Apache.

--
Sheila King
http://www.thinkspot.net/sheila/
http://www.k12groups.org/




From fredrik at effbot.org  Sun Jan 28 10:19:53 2001
From: fredrik at effbot.org (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 15:19:53 GMT
Subject: Tkinter 3000 (was Re: Tkinter vs wxPython: your opinions?)
References: <3A6F899F.E164F628@home.com> <hvZb6.2156$_8.33280@news1.rdc1.bc.home.com> <slrn9710o1.73.cerutti@fiad06.norwich.edu> <iF%b6.9208$Qb7.1327643@newsb.telia.net> <slrn9712f3.1f.cerutti@fiad06.norwich.edu> <z_%b6.9215$Qb7.1328910@newsb.telia.net> <B6964A86.95C3%bobhicks@adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <tMWc6.9627$Qb7.1429805@newsb.telia.net>

Robert L Hicks wrote:
> Will Tk3k be rolled into Python at some point?

I have no idea -- but I suppose the best way to make
sure Tk3k goes into Python is to make IDLE dependent
on some part of it ;-)

Cheers /F




From vasko at ditec.sk  Tue Jan 23 09:52:53 2001
From: vasko at ditec.sk (Vasko Miroslav)
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 15:52:53 +0100
Subject: Python 2.1 alpha 1 released!
Message-ID: <AFC8540FEA0CF146A0256CEEC7FCEC6F4ACF20@apps.intra.ditec.sk>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Hi!

i looked at license text in 2.1a1 and i'm sad
is there any chance to remove GPL incompatibility in 2.1 final?

thx,
miro


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Version: PGPfreeware 6.0.2i

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OgxhFf3IkLEgEzJV3Z6N7pRR
=HIa2
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From fischer at intes.de  Wed Jan 17 01:59:56 2001
From: fischer at intes.de (Rolf Fischer)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 07:59:56 +0100
Subject: Command language definition
Message-ID: <3A6542EC.99ED1149@intes.de>

Dear Python specialists,

could you give me some hints whether you would use python to setup
a command language for a gui in order to be able to establish
a batch mode (with automated testing options) ?

Do I have to program each command with its allowed paramters, etc ?
Or is there a combination with another tool that you would recommend ?

Thanks for any suggestions
Rolf
--



From teyc at bigfoot.com  Wed Jan 24 00:48:21 2001
From: teyc at bigfoot.com (Chui Tey)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 15:48:21 +1000
Subject: Hibernating python programs?
References: <94lq4c$ooc$1@bunyip.cc.uq.edu.au>
Message-ID: <94lqev$js3$1@bunyip.cc.uq.edu.au>

Another thought, perhaps this is similar to session management in web
servers?




From stanton at livsform.com  Sun Jan  7 21:36:14 2001
From: stanton at livsform.com (Stanton Schell)
Date: 08 Jan 2001 02:36:14 GMT
Subject: Basic module question:
Message-ID: <B67E91CD.A22E%stanton@livsform.com>

I am learning Python and I am trying to find out all the functions I have
available to me within sys.stdin (eg read(), readlines(), etc...).  I
realize this brings up a more fundamental question for me: how do I find out
what is available in any module (which I guess would then apply to other
objects written by other people...)?

any help or resource guidance would greatly appreciated :-)

Thanks,
-stanton schell

--
Stanton Schell
stanton at livsform.com



From danielsatalandanielsdotcom  Tue Jan 16 00:00:48 2001
From: danielsatalandanielsdotcom (Alan Daniels)
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 00:00:48 -0500
Subject: Problem with a tuple - newbie ignorance
References: <3A633531.9010303@yale.edu> <3A635C32.9E5285C5@yale.edu>
Message-ID: <i1k76t8g9dr5fft0v0phcr98hb6qkdjbaq@4ax.com>

On Mon, 15 Jan 2001 15:23:14 -0500, Steven Citron-Pousty
<steven.citron-pousty at yale.edu> wrote:

>Here is my code - remember think newbie and don't slam me too hard, its
>one of those days. Thanks again for any help.

Other posts have already pointed out the difference between list
copying and list referencing, so I won't belabor that, but here's a
couple of idioms you can use to make your code more Pythonic if you
wish:

1) Multiple imports....
>import os
>import sys
>import string
>import re
...can be written in one line, such as...

    import os, sys, string, re

This is a matter of style and strictly up to you. Either way works
fine.

2) Like others have said, the "ifields" data structure looks as if it
would be better off as a dictionary, thus giving you nice key/value
lookup capability. Plus you wouldn't have to hardcode that "numfields"
value! Let me know if you want help on this and I'll help you offline.

3) If you find yourself doing the double-backslash a lot (thanks,
Microsoft!), rather than typing...
> dir = os.listdir('D:\\statlab\\ssda\\data')
...you can write this as...

  dir = os.listdir(r'D:\statlab\ssda\data')

The 'r' before the string means it's a "raw" string, and all escape
sequences are ignored. Handy for long Windows file paths.

4) If you ever find yourself writing a line like...
> if (i.rfind(j)==0) or (i.rfind(j)==1) or (i.rfind(j)==3):
...where you test to see if a value is one of many possible discrete
values, remember that tuples are your friends, and try:

  if i.rfind(j) in (0, 1, 3):

...instead. The "in" operator lets you test for memebership of an item
in a sequence (i.e. is a value in a certain list, or tuple), or even
looking for a character in a string. Plus, your code will run faster
since "rfind" will be called *one* time instead of three.

5) If you ever need to do the typical "for i = 1 to 10" - style
enumerating through a number, such as you have here...

>    crap  = 0
>    while crap < numfields :
>        if result[1][crap]:
>            print "field # ", result[0][crap], " ", result[1][crap]
>        crap += 1

...you should replace it with a "for" statement using a call to
"range" (this generates a list of numbers for you). Example:

     for crap in range(numfields):
         if result[1][crap]:
             print "field # ", result[0][crap], " ", result[1][crap]

6) Python has built in "sprintf"-style string interpolation using the
percent-sign character on a string, turning...
> print "field # ", result[0][crap], " ", result[1][crap]
...into...

  print "field # %s %s" % (result[0][crap], result[1][crap])

...but once again, this is a matter of style. I generally use the
percent style interpolation whenever I can, because otherwise the
string handling looks too much like Java, and I get enough of *that*
language at work. :-)

This doesn't cover it all (I'm sure there's more), but I hope this
helps.
==============================
Alan Daniels
daniels at alandaniels dot com


From zalivin at krona.obninsk.ru  Tue Jan 23 11:53:29 2001
From: zalivin at krona.obninsk.ru (Alexei Zalivine)
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 19:53:29 +0300
Subject: pg module, lo problem
References: <980131091.743086@basic.maxnet.ru> <js_a6.1233$ju6.158595@typhoon.nyroc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <980268749.311730@basic.maxnet.ru>

"Cliff Crawford" <cjc26 at nospam.cornell.edu> wrote in message
news:js_a6.1233$ju6.158595 at typhoon.nyroc.rr.com...
> * Alexei Zalivine <zalivin at krona.obninsk.ru> menulis:
> | Hi,
> |
> | I have a problem with large object in pg module. Anybody work with LO?
> |
> | After locreate function, object not opened. If I try to open, pg.error
sad,
> | that it can't be opened. All functions work only with opened objects,
exept
> | export.
> | I use Mandrake 7.0 Linux, pg version 3.1 and python version 1.5.2.
Please
> | help me, because I alredy started project, and can't choose other DB.
>
> In PostgreSQL you have to use large objects within a transaction.  So,
> you should do a pg.query("BEGIN;") before locreate, and a
> pg.query("COMMIT;") after you close the large object.
Thank you! It really work. But I don't found about it in documentation.

Alexei.




From dnew at san.rr.com  Wed Jan 31 23:47:58 2001
From: dnew at san.rr.com (Darren New)
Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 04:47:58 GMT
Subject: Design for slices
References: <959uue$k02$1@cubacola.tninet.se>
Message-ID: <3A78EA7E.F0B864B1@san.rr.com>

> Why is the first character in the string x defined as x[0] and
> not x[1]? 

Along with all the mathematical answers, there's also the answer that (most)
computer languages only do one thing at a time. If you're counting and
processing the elements of a string (or list, or whatever), you do it in
three steps:

1) Am I done yet?
2) Process the current item.
3) Move to the next item.

The first step is really "Does the number of items I processed equal the
number of items in the list/string?" And before you process any, the number
of items you've processed is zero.

Try counting out 10 pennies from your hand to the desk, but don't say the
number at the same time your hands are moving. What did you say after you
moved one penny? "One." What did you say *before* you moved any pennies?

-- 
Darren New / Senior MTS & Free Radical / Invisible Worlds Inc.
San Diego, CA, USA (PST).  Cryptokeys on demand.
                 Ignorance can be cured. Naivety cures itself.


From jcollins at endtech.com  Thu Jan  4 11:45:39 2001
From: jcollins at endtech.com (Jeff Collins)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 09:45:39 -0700 (MST)
Subject: embedded python -memory usage-by-types
In-Reply-To: <Q3N46.13355$t3.31349@tor-nn1.netcom.ca>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0101040839390.13731-100000@euclid.endtech.com>

On Wed, 3 Jan 2001, Warren Postma wrote:

> A while back there was someone working on a memory usage debugging hack.  Is
> anybody still working on this.
> 
> Output could be something like this:
> 
> 
> Object                  Instances             Memory Usage (kb)
> ---------               -------------       ---------------------
> String                       5000                 1100 kb
> Interned Strings        900                    500 kb
> Integer                     8000                  900 kb
> Classes                    900                     400 kb
> Instances                 1200                   1800kb
> ...
> ...

I like this idea and would like to see it as part of a more comprehensive
approach to resource management.  This is particularly important for small
platforms, where resources are often near exhaustion.  It would report
not only per/type/object useage, but also internal python memory usage
as well.  Making this information accessible at runtime would allow the
ability to recover unused resources allocated by Python (eg, free_list)
when memory is low.

> Has anyone implemented something like this?  Anything more advanced either?

I'll be glad to help with this.


-- 
Jeffery D. Collins, Ph.D.
Sr. Software Developer
Endeavors Technology, Inc.




From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Wed Jan 24 05:40:27 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 11:40:27 +0100
Subject: Markov.py
References: <94eavq$5cl$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <94eulk$dduhj$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de> <3A6B7716.68A62115@home.com> <94h5he$9kl$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <94ides$6t2$1@animus.fel.iae.nl> <94jrt701eg4@news1.newsguy.com> <94l59e$4kc$1@animus.fel.iae.nl>
Message-ID: <94mbet01ruh@news2.newsguy.com>

"Carel Fellinger" <cfelling at iae.nl> wrote in message
news:94l59e$4kc$1 at animus.fel.iae.nl...
    [snip]
> > I have a tender spot in my heart for HMM's ever since using
> > them in the early '80s for speech recognition and natural
> > language modeling... they give you all that 'neural networks'
> > are supposed to, with a very solid and mature mathematical basis
> > ["everything is an application of Bayes' Theorem"!-)] and, as
> > a result, lots of confidence in the results you're getting!
>
> Funny, in those days I was more into Montague Grammers and Natural
> Language Machine Translation (mainly on the implementation side of a
> very formal approach under the guidance of Jan Landsbergen).  We used
> to look with dedain to people using stochastic models in the field:)

Yep, I remember the debates!-)  The little fact that our
approach *WORKED* (allowing a 20,000-word vocabulary real
time recognizer to be first built in 1984), of course,
only made the barbs & disdains from the Theoreticians
more bitter and envenomed:-).  [That's also when I started
lining up theoretical support from NON-computational kinds
of linguists & scholars, such as Wittgenstein and Tullio
de Mauro, for the general thesis that "deterministic"
modeling of natural language is an oxymoron:-)].


Alex





From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Tue Jan 30 03:30:32 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 09:30:32 +0100
Subject: . Python 2.1 function attributes
References: <87lmrukpxi.fsf@sune.interspace.dk>, <Pine.GSO.4.21.0101271303540.3501-100000@y.glue.umd.edu> <Pine.GSO.4.21.0101271158190.3501-100000@y.glue.umd.edu> <Pine.GSO.4.21.0101270135190.7677-100000@y.glue.umd.edu> <mailman.980593892.725.python-list@python.org> <$5A+ZwAGjtc6EwE0@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <14962.62953.304511.523826@anthem.wooz.org> <mailman.980613639.23439.python-list@python.org> <mailman.980617472.28020.python-list@python.org> <mailman.980621252.32649.python-list@python.org> <mailman.980839836.29137.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <955u3d08mp@news2.newsguy.com>

"Moshe Zadka" <moshez at zadka.site.co.il> wrote in message
news:mailman.980839836.29137.python-list at python.org...
    [snip]
> print >>sys.stderr, "danger will robinson! number", n
>
> (How many Python programmers preferred to write to stdout that warning
> because print was too conveinient? You'll never know...)

To quote an unnamed Pythonbot (but he knows who he is...), "printed
to stdout (why not stderr? because stderr is a lame hack <0.2 wink>)"
[from the docstring of a simple AND very useful unit-test framework].

Of course, I guess the new politically correct line is that stderr
is now a precious and brilliant concept, and so is 'print>>' since
it lets you so smoothly access such a pearl beyond price.  Yeah,
right.  Fortunately, I can keep print>>-free version 0.9.4 around --
hooray for open source.


> I was originally against print>>, but the rather weak arguments people
> manage to come up to denounce it (with the exception of Alex, who reported
> a use case) have turned me about...

Thanks for singling me out, but I notice with interest that such
exception from "rather weak-hood" makes no actual difference to
your opinions.  Such case studies in "how do human beings actually
make up their minds" (as opposed to, *rationalize* the opinions they
"want" to hold) hold some fascination for me.

As a matter of theory, that is.

If I were a marketeer, or a politician, I guess I would be studying
how to turn such mechanisms to my advantage and exploit them for
leverage on "selling my wares" (a field of very rewarding and
pragmatical study that has no doubt been going on for millennia; it
can be, and has been, argued, that such issues have been the prime
sources of selective evolutionary pressure for human intelligence --
to sell somebody a bill of goods, and to avoid being sold one).

As it happens, my quality of life would show little substantial
improvement were people to start behaving sensibly (defined as,
behaving as _I_ opine would be best:-) in most areas (and the
ones that matter, such as dealing with this planet's environment
with some pragmatical respect, appear to be beyond any individual's
ability to influence much).  So, I can pursue more entertaining
courses -- a philosopher's sad smile on human folly, a biologist's
just-so-story about why such behavior is adaptive, an economist's
tale on why it maximizes utility, a mystic's myth on how this all
leads to greater spiritual good, whatever:-).


Alex






From qrczak at knm.org.pl  Mon Jan  1 10:39:34 2001
From: qrczak at knm.org.pl (Marcin 'Qrczak' Kowalczyk)
Date: 1 Jan 2001 15:39:34 GMT
Subject: Bug? in os.chown()
References: <3A4FC0DD.530F90E6@ev1.net> <p6q7l4fs6t8.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <slrn95195m.hn4.qrczak@qrnik.zagroda>

01 Jan 2001 15:09:07 +0100, Martin von Loewis <loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de> pisze:

> To    change    the    symbolic    link    itself,    use
> lchown(2).

It should not be necessary. Symbolic link mode is not relevant anyway.

-- 
 __("<  Marcin Kowalczyk * qrczak at knm.org.pl http://qrczak.ids.net.pl/
 \__/
  ^^                      SYGNATURA ZAST?PCZA
QRCZAK


From m.faassen at vet.uu.nl  Sat Jan 13 08:27:24 2001
From: m.faassen at vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen)
Date: 13 Jan 2001 13:27:24 GMT
Subject: is Python fully object oriented ?
References: <mailman.979292174.19166.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <93pl3s$c4e$2@newshost.accu.uu.nl>

Max M?ller Rasmussen <maxm at normik.dk> wrote:
> It's the only thing about Python that bothers me endlessly, having to
> explicitly pass "self".

Note that in the case of attributes that are mutable, you can use
local variables if you like:

def method(self):
    foo = self.foo
    foo.do_this()
    foo.do_that()
    return foo.get_bar() + foo.get_baz()

and since you prevent extra lookups, may in some cases even speed up 
your code.

In the case your attributes are immutable objects, you need to make sure
they're changed in the end if you use this technique:

def method(self):
    foo = self.foo
    foo = foo + 12
    ... lots more ..
    self.foo = foo

If you program your objects to be persistent in the Zope Object Database,
you have to treat all atttributes as immutable like this.

[snip]
> Is there a REALLY good reason that it has to be explicitly declared ?

Yes, readability and maintainability.

Or are you only complaining about having it explicitly in your argument
list, and you'd like it to be there implicitly, but that you still
have to use it explicitly? I'd say that'd be a bit inconsistent.

Regards,

Martijn
-- 
History of the 20th Century: WW1, WW2, WW3?
No, WWW -- Could we be going in the right direction?


From sjking at bconnex.net  Wed Jan 17 14:41:16 2001
From: sjking at bconnex.net (Stephen King)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 19:41:16 GMT
Subject: SSL patch for python 1.5.2
Message-ID: <3A65F522.7B220B8D@bconnex.net>

Yeah, I know I should upgrade to Python 2, but ...

Anyone have the diff files to patch Python 1.5.2 for SSL?

The ones I found for 1.5.1 won't work and I've not got time to fix it at
the moment.

Thanks,
Stephen

-- 
 All mimsy were the borogroves
 Stephen J King  ::  RR2 Utopia Canada L0M 1T0 
--


From SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk  Wed Jan 17 04:45:01 2001
From: SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk (Simon Brunning)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 09:45:01 -0000
Subject: Jython on the AS/400 (was: Python and Industry, IBM I'm afraid)
Message-ID: <31575A892FF6D1118F5800600846864D5B170D@intrepid>

> From:	Simon B. [SMTP:sbrunning at bigfoot.com]
> Now, a Jython port is a bit more likely - the '400 comes with what I'm
> told is a very good JVM. I've not had any sucess getting it to work
> just yet, but I keep trying. If I ever do get it going, c.l.py will be
> the first to know...
 
OK, I have Jython working on my AS/400 now - using beta 2. If anyone wants
details of how I did this, give me a shout.

It's not ready for showtime yet, though. For a start, the os module doesn't
seem to be working, which is no surprise, really. I'll try to look into
that.

The other thing is that I'm having problems passing byte arguments:

>>>myInStream.read(27)
Traceback (innermost last):
  File "<console>", line 1, in ?
TypeError: read(): 1st arg can't be coerced to byte[]

Any tips on this one, anyone?

Cheers,
Simon Brunning
TriSystems Ltd.
sbrunning at trisystems.co.uk




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From m.hadfield at niwa.cri.nz  Sun Jan 14 18:51:49 2001
From: m.hadfield at niwa.cri.nz (Mark Hadfield)
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 12:51:49 +1300
Subject: P*rl in Latin, whither Python?
References: <3A0B62B7.59A43E13@gte.net> <slrn90oemp.t5.kc5tja@garnet.armored.net> <slrn90ofcn.ilq.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <3A0C8258.4217A1C@alcyone.com> <slrn90p35i.e2b.wtanksle@dolphin.openprojects.net> <3A0D7321.29BE1264@engcorp.com> <874s1ei02a.fsf@fangorn.stofanet.dk> <3A0DEA72.7F8A2868@alcyone.com> <3A0E0E00.50B7A1E1@engcorp.com>  <871ywhmiis.fsf@fangorn.stofanet.dk> <slrn90u6n6.sj.warlock@gargoyle.myth> <974070178.345720@clam-ext> <mailman.979323254.7670.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <979516309.507737@clam-ext>

"J?rgen A. Erhard" <juergen.erhard at gmx.net> wrote in message
news:mailman.979323254.7670.python-list at python.org...
>
>     Mark> People in glace houses shouldn't throw stones.
>
> Just an illustration of the truism that every spelling flame contains
> at least on [sic] spelling error itself. ;-)
>
> PS: Was that "glace" mistake intended? ;-) ;-)

What mistake?

P.S. I've completely forgotten what this thread is about.

---
Mark Hadfield
m.hadfield at niwa.cri.nz  http://katipo.niwa.cri.nz/~hadfield/
National Institute for Water and Atmospheric Research
PO Box 14-901, Wellington, New Zealand





From sholden at holdenweb.com  Thu Jan 18 21:04:48 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 21:04:48 -0500
Subject: Python ActiveX Scripting Engine raising Unicode errors
References: <Wad96.5165$DI.56764@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com> <LAd96.32293$Q06.181526@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com> <947j84$503$1@troll.powertech.no>
Message-ID: <YkN96.7322$LZ5.52335@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com>

"Syver Enstad" <syver at NOSPAMcyberwatcher.com> wrote in message
news:947j84$503$1 at troll.powertech.no...
> > >
> > This is too weird: I just renamed pySQL.py, checked that there is no
> pySQL.*
> > file *anywhere* on my disks, and the ASP page still claims to be seeing
an
> > error in it!
>
> In my experience imported modules stay in memory until you unload the IIS
> application or restart the w3svc service. You can also make an asp page
with
> reload statements for the relevant modules as long as this asp page is
> situated in the same application.
>
Thanks. This is PWS, so I have less control. Starting and stopping the
server made no difference. Rebooting did, however, cause the module to be
reloaded ...

True enough, this error was occurring in the one module whose import
statement I had not followed with an immediate reload().

> > Clearly some weird cacheing going on here.
>
> Yes!
>
> Regarding the unicode error, you probably try to process characters
outside
> the 128 ascii characters, is it possible that some international
characters
> have been entered into the text field?
>
That's what I thought, and I *did* find a few spaces in there with the top
bit set. Unfortunately, even after purging them I am still seeing the error.
I have checked all the fields in the database, and can find *no* characters
greater than 127 in them. Unless my checking code is wrong, of course. The
essence of it is to create a transalte table as:

    ttbl = " "*128 + "!"*128

and the check is

    s = (row[1] or "").translate(ttbl)
    if "!" in s:
        ...

I'd appreciate any other thoughts...

regards
 Steve




From amk at mira.erols.com  Tue Jan 23 20:16:44 2001
From: amk at mira.erols.com (A.M. Kuchling)
Date: 24 Jan 2001 01:16:44 GMT
Subject: observer design pattern
References: <94i340$4er$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <3A6CA19C.89A6DFB2@attglobal.net> <3A6D0992.C86D92CD@home.com> <3A6D5BAB.2AB22E36@mail.dvz.fh-koeln.de> <3A6D8E5A.476DE8E7@attglobal.net>
Message-ID: <slrn96sc21.jr.amk@mira.erols.com>

On Tue, 23 Jan 2001 08:59:54 -0500, 
	Roland Schlenker <rol9999 at attglobal.net> wrote:
>Correct, when I read the Gof book, I rewrote many of the examples in the
>Python
>to better understand them.

If you still have the code, I'd encourage you to put it on a Web page
somewhere, or turn it into a HOWTO, since the question seems to come
up regularly (though not too frequently).

--amk


From skip at mojam.com  Fri Jan  5 10:11:16 2001
From: skip at mojam.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 09:11:16 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Migrating to perl?
In-Reply-To: <V%c56.4648$of7.221797@news1.atl>
References: <3Fa56.4580$of7.216286@news1.atl>
	<mailman.978670867.31055.python-list@python.org>
	<V%c56.4648$of7.221797@news1.atl>
Message-ID: <14933.58388.332802.945289@beluga.mojam.com>

    Joel> I thought of the question about security and the need for taint
    Joel> modes but then I realized since there may not be system calls like
    Joel> `del *.*` there might not be a need for it.  I'm sure that if
    Joel> Python is in general use as a CGI language then those issues have
    Joel> been cleared up.  Are there any thing you have to watch for like
    Joel> running in taint mode in perl?

There are ways to execute "del *.*":

    import os
    os.system("del *.*")

I've been fortunate enough to always work on my own web servers and never
have to worry about other peoples' code messing with my system, but if
you're providing server space to potentially hostile clients, check out the
rexec (restricted execution) module.

BTW, once you have the basics of Python down, this URL will generally be
your most frequently used link into the documentation:

    http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/modindex.html

    Joel> My main reason is I'm working on a web based game and need to
    Joel> build a map image dynamically.  Its a hex based map and I worked
    Joel> hard with the help of geometry expert on another group to make it
    Joel> work right.  I would hate to have to build a module like that from
    Joel> scratch, especially since graphic file standards are not exactly
    Joel> my forte.  I only have a vague understanding of their inner
    Joel> workings.

If it's written in C, you should be able to write a wrapper (in C) around it
that will make its functionality available from Python.  If that's the case,
check here:

    http://www.python.org/doc/current/ext/ext.html

    Joel> I just downloaded Activestates build for Python.  I went there
    Joel> first since I've got accustomed to their services.  Is a good
    Joel> build?  As good as Pythonlabs?  Better?

I couldn't tell you.  I'm a Unix weenie.  I boot my laptop into Windows when
I need to run Excel... ;-)

    Joel> BTW, I noticed when I first looked around this newsgroup there was
    Joel> a mention of a couple of options of using Perl modules with
    Joel> Python.  Minotaur I think it was called.  Could you use that to
    Joel> wrap Python around Mason?  I agree, its a nice package.  I really
    Joel> don't have a problem with perls packages but writing my own or
    Joel> doing anything off the beaten path is getting to be too much like
    Joel> work -- making the hard things harder.

Probably not a solution for me.  On the other hand, I believe the folks at
Digital Creations were working on a scheme to allow so-called external
methods written in Perl to be executed within their Zope web application
system.  I've no idea what the status of that is.

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at mojam.com)
Support the Mojam.com Affiliates Program: http://www.mojam.com/affl/
(847)971-7098



From rra at stanford.edu  Wed Jan 17 21:29:42 2001
From: rra at stanford.edu (Russ Allbery)
Date: 17 Jan 2001 18:29:42 -0800
Subject: How to close all files between fork and exec?
References: <yv27l3upooj.fsf@lionsp093.lion-ag.de> <944o0k$pi0$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <ylu26xa8yx.fsf@windlord.stanford.edu>

In comp.unix.programmer, Donn Cave <donn at u.washington.edu> writes:
> Quoth Harald Kirsch <kirschh at lionbioscience.com>:

>> On some systems there is a constant like OPEN_MAX but I read that on
>> recent Solaris versions there is no real limit to it.  How do I get
>> hold of the highest numbered open file descriptor, in particular in
>> python?

> Unfortunately it looks to me like no one has ever put getdtablesize()
> in Python.

That's probably because the more portable way to do this is to use either
sysconf(_SC_OPEN_MAX) or getrlimit(RLIMIT_NOFILE, &rl).

-- 
Russ Allbery (rra at stanford.edu)             <http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>


From fuess at att.net  Tue Jan 30 09:35:28 2001
From: fuess at att.net (David A. Fuess)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 14:35:28 GMT
Subject: Python on Win 98
References: <mailman.980726314.27906.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Es92OmT=hw1uAZ+qhUecAhtl4HxZ@4ax.com>

Looks to me like a pathing problem if the line was entered from the
command prompt. Make sure you have a path to python.exe in your %PATH
environment variable or put python.exe in one of the paths already in
%PATH. then, from the directory containing hello.py enter the
following in a "DOS" window:
	python hello.py

Also, it looks like you may have typed the
"c:\programming\python20>python hello.py" line in your pythonwin
interactive window? If you did, don't. From the interactive window you
may have to "import hello" if it is not already in your name space. It
will run on importing.

Dave

jerry keeney <jerryleekeeney at yahoo.com> wrote:

>Instead of using the interactive interpreter, use the
>'msdos' window:
>start - program files - ms dos window.
>
>Go to your location of python (ie
>f:/programfiles/python)
>
>and type:
>
>python yourpythonfilename.py
>
>
>
>
>It just doesn't work: it gives me an error message
>like:
>
>File "<stdin>", line 1
>    c:\programming\python20>python hello.py
>     ^
>SyntaxError: invalid syntax
>
>so what do I do???
>
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. 
>http://auctions.yahoo.com/



From darked at my-deja.com  Wed Jan  3 18:37:08 2001
From: darked at my-deja.com (darked at my-deja.com)
Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 23:37:08 GMT
Subject: Python + MySQLdb @Tru64 -> MySQL @Linux
Message-ID: <930d34$qj$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

Dear All,

I am trying to use Python (Python 2.0 #1[C] on osf1V5) to collect some
data on Alpha (Tru64 v5.0), then feed it to the MySQL database
(3.23.29a-gamma) running on Linux box (Mandrake 7.1).

My problem is to get a working MySQLdb module (or anything similar) on
Alpha. MySQLdb requires installation of MySQL on Alpha.
Getting MySQL to compile on Tru64 is painful to put it mildly (latest
gcc or Compaq C++ is needed). Before I will go this route I would like
to get some more information.

1. Is there anybody using this setup? (see Subject)

2. If yes, I will appreciate info about versions of MySQL, gcc or Compaq
C++, switches for configure etc...

3. any shortcuts? (i.e. compiling not the whole MySQL server but just
client libraries)

4. other solutions?

I will very much appreciate your help.

Greetings

Darek

darked at NoSPAM///my-deja.com


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From sholden at holdenweb.com  Thu Jan  4 14:21:27 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 14:21:27 -0500
Subject: How-to create a Pascal Record using Python
References: <3a54c7cf.15612195@news.skynet.be>
Message-ID: <u4456.166$XZ5.32337@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com>

Daniel <Daniel.Kinnaer at AdValvas.be> wrote in message
news:3a54c7cf.15612195 at news.skynet.be...
> Hello,
>
> How are Pascal-records used in Python? I've tried some code (below)
> but I ran into trouble with this '\012' attached to each line.  Can
> someone please help me out?  What is the correct way of
> using/creating/writing/reading Pascal-records in Python? Thanks
>
> Daniel
>
>
> """
> This is the contents of the records-file (Each line is a record
> containing 3 elements.)
> aaa,12,azert
> bbb,a1,qsdfg
> ccc,2c,wxcvb
> ddd,7f,yuiop
> eee,9b,hjklm
> fff,0e,nhyuj
> """
>
> #define a function which stores all the lines from a file into a list
> def getTheLines(filename):
>     file = open(filename)
>     return map(str, file.readlines())
>
> #store contents of records-file into a list
> lijst = getTheLines( "C:\\Python20\\AProject\\Records\\records.txt")
>
> print lijst
>
> The output is as follows :
> ['aaa,12,azert\012', 'bbb,a1,qsdfg\012', 'ccc,2c,wxcvb\012',
> 'ddd,7f,yuiop\012', 'eee,9b,hjklm\012', 'fff,0e,nhyuj']
>
Fairly obviously, you need to trim the line-feed characters off the lines
returned by the readlines() method.  I'm not sure why you are mapping the
str() function on the lines, since I would expect that they are strings
already.  But since you have a map call in there, why not map the
string.rstrip() function instead?

A more 2.0-ish way, since you're abviously prepared to read the whole file
in all at once, would be to use the splitlines() string method on a read()
of the file.  This would make the last line of your getTheLines() function

    return file.read().splitlines()

Either of these should suit.

regards
 Steve






From wlsonna at attglobal.net  Thu Jan  4 23:35:46 2001
From: wlsonna at attglobal.net (William Sonna)
Date: 5 Jan 2001 04:35:46 GMT
Subject: A single, general looping construct? (was: why no "do : until"?)
References: <92jj3j$ff7$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <92m9pm$d19$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <B3z36.122$9s1.18804@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com> <3A4EC5B1.8912E571@engcorp.com> <x8G36.156$9s1.31209@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com> <92qc21$538$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <0O7zTzsxerl5-pn2-SISYKtwXTOmR@bill> <931lji02ik1@news2.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <0O7zTzsxerl5-pn2-DVVVoFhFP1jH@bill>

On Thu, 4 Jan 2001 11:07:39, "Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com> 
wrote:

> "William Sonna" <wlsonna at attglobal.net> wrote in message
> news:0O7zTzsxerl5-pn2-SISYKtwXTOmR at bill...
>     [snip]
> > Object Rexx's implementation of the generalized do is the best I've
> > seen (in a real language, that is).  Works like this:
> 
> Snipping: 5 different forms that _still_ don't cover the Knuth-identified
> general case of "N-and-1/2-times" loops.  We clearly have a very
> different idea of what the word "best" means.
>

My definition is easy, simple and obvious.  And Object Rexx's are 
simple, easy and obvious.  Python's while is simple, easy and obvious.
 Python's repeat until is simple, easy, but NOT OBVIOUS.

I find the N and 1/2 times to be totally loopy (pun intended).  Don't 
you?
 
> *Entities are not to be multiplied needlessly* -- Occam's razor.  ONE
> general loop form, plus one form for the very important case of loops
> over a sequence, seems just right to me.
> 
> 
> > while count < 100:   # zero or more iterations
>     [snip]
> > until count <=100:    # one or more iterations
>     [snip]
> > Which are all (with the exception of the ones that are identical or
> > nearly identical) cleaner and even more Pythonic than Python.
> 
> We clearly also disagree on the adjectives 'clean' and 'Pythonic'.
> 
> Since when is it Pythonic to have many equivalent ways to express
> one concept?

Zero or more  of  something is not mathematically or logically the 
same as one or more.

So expressing "one or more" as "one plus zero or more" smacks of using
"x^0" to express "one".

>  It's not Python that has both 'if' and 'unless', for
> example -- it's Perl.  A language which has both while and until
> for loops, but doesn't have both if and unless for non-loop tests,
> is inconsistent; one which has one form in each case, and one which
> systematically adopts multiple forms whenever feasible, are each
> consistent, albeit with, clearly, VERY different underlying
> philosophy.
> 

You don't have to take my word for it......Go ask the re module if it 
knows the difference.

It does (thank GOD).  Otherwise [a,b,c]+ would have to be written as 
[a,b,c][a,b,c]+, which is generally accepted as bad style.

So what's the deal with Python?

> "Do the simplest thing that can possibly work", "there should be
> exactly one way to perform a task" -- that is one philosophy.  It
> is Python.  The exactly-opposite philosophy, that of "the more
> ways, the merrier", of exhuberant, post-modern richness, is Perl's.
> How can you possibly call 'Pythonic' something which goes so
> drastically against the grain of its basic tenets?
> 

> > Fortran had even simpler control structures than Python, and was a
> > royal pain to use as a result.
> 
> Surely you're joking, Mr Sonna.  Have you ever USED Fortran?!  I
> must have written and maintained many tens of thousands of lines in
> it.  How can you POSSIBLY assert that the set of its control
> structures is "simpler than Python's"?!  Simple GOTO, assigned
> GOTO, computed GOTO, logical IF, arithmetic IF, the DO statement...
> it's *brimming* with complexity!  (Let's not even get into
> Fortran 77, which added even more).  Just the rules about what
> kinds of GOTO's are acceptable across which kind of DO-statement
> boundaries get longer to explain than the whole Python language!-)
>

True, they were not easy to use.

But at their core they were EXTREMELY simple concepts:  GOTO, IF, and 
DO.  

The variations you describe are grafted workarounds for the inherent 
limitations of a limited set of control structures.  Not unlike the 
loop construct we are discussing.

I am of the opinion that control structures should state what they 
mean in the simplest possible terms.  One of the reasons I always 
hated Fortran.

[snip]

> 
> The need for structure is not under discussion: rather, the basic
> guideline on how to pick the structures.  Some languages bask in
> 'being very expressive' by making you choose among umpteen ways
> to express the same thing, a la Cobol's
>     ADD CREAM TO ESPRESSO GIVING CAPPUCCINO
> vs
>     LET CAPPUCCINO = CREAM + ESPRESSO
> 

I think that  CAPPUCCINO = CREAM + ESPRESSO is even better.

For the same reason that  [a,b,c]+ is better than [a,b,c][a,b,c]*.

Of course, CREAM + ESPRESSO + WHISKEY is better when its twenty below 
zero :-)

[unprovoked anti-Perl advocacy snipped - PLEASE- I'm not here to 
troll]

> I have repeatedly agreed that it's not optimal syntax, but
> *adding* special-case syntax forms is exactly the wrong way
> to go.  ONE general syntax form for general loops:
>     loop <condition1>:
>         <suite1>
>     while <condition2>:
>         <suite2>
> would probably be ideal (with the loop-over-sequence form,
> since it's *such* a common case, singled out).  But it ain't
> gonna happen -- the gain is just too small for the disruption.
>
> 

[snip]

> I *particularly* disagree that Python's syntax for the general
> loop is "uniquely inelegant", whatever you're trying to convey
> with that "uniquely".  The spelling of the second clause in
> the general loop form as (indented) 'if not <condition2>: break'
> is, at worst, slightly awkward -- the very popularity of 'break'
> as a keyword in other languages (and the extremely similar
> semantics of equivalent keywords in languages which have a
> slightly different syntax, such as Perl's "last") helps to
> mitigate the perception of this awkwardness.
> 

In summary:

You may love it in your heart, but

while 1:
    yadda
    yadda
    if "whatever you think (should|should not) happen":
        break

Is clumsy and inconsistent compared to:

    until "whatever you think (should|should not) happen":
          yadda
          yadda

Which has:

    1. the same number of lines
    2. the same relative location and indentation for test
    3. the same location and indentation for yadda yaddas

as:

    while "whatever you think (should|should not) happen":
        yadda
        yadda

Which is optimal. 

Thus my claim that it is more consistent with the basic "while" loop 
and  thus more "Pythonic" than Python's version.

As for generalized while.......What would it really add?


From andrew_dot_henshaw_at_earthling_dot_net  Sun Jan 14 23:17:02 2001
From: andrew_dot_henshaw_at_earthling_dot_net (Andrew Henshaw)
Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 23:17:02 -0500
Subject: re findall mod for issue of side effects
Message-ID: <t651jf3k5dhfdf@corp.supernews.com>

I've changed a line, added a line, and added a 'grammaticGrouping' parameter
to the definition of RegexObj.findall (the parameter gets modified in the
user api, also).  This appears to change the behavior of findall to be
consistent with what I was desiring; that is, a way to specify grouping in a
regex pattern, without returning tuples in the findall result.

An example:

>>> s='..abcabcxyz..'

# Try a simple pattern
>>> r=re.compile('abcxyz')
>>> r.findall(s)
['abcxyz']

# Now add some grouping to the pattern
>>> r=re.compile('(abc)*(xyz)*')
>>> r.findall(s)
[('', ''), ('', ''), ('abc', 'xyz'), ('', ''), ('', ''), ('', '')]
# Wow, that changed the return value dramatically

# Set the grammaticGrouping flag to 1, using the patched findall code
>>> r.findall(s,1)
['abcabcxyz']
# That's consistent with the result type from the first pattern.


Does anybody else see this to be as useful as I do?

AH


####### patched code follows  ##########
    def findall(self, source, grammaticGrouping=0):    #new
grammaticGrouping parameter
        """Return a list of all non-overlapping matches in the string.

        If one or more groups are present in the pattern and
        grammaticGrouping is false, return a
        list of groups; this will be a list of tuples if the pattern
        has more than one group.

        Empty matches are included in the result.

        """
        pos = 0
        end = len(source)
        results = []
        match = self.code.match
        append = results.append
        while pos <= end:
            regs = match(source, pos, end, 0)
            if not regs:
                break
            i, j = regs[0]
            rest = regs[1:]
            if not rest or grammaticGrouping:   #new: changed from 'if not
rest:'
                gr = source[i:j]
            elif len(rest) == 1:
                a, b = rest[0]
                gr = source[a:b]
            else:
                gr = []
                for (a, b) in rest:
                    gr.append(source[a:b])
                gr = tuple(gr)
            #was: append(gr)
            if gr or not grammaticGrouping:     #new: added this line
                append(gr)                      #new: indented
            pos = max(j, pos+1)
        return results





From amritansh at mobilian.com  Wed Jan 31 13:09:08 2001
From: amritansh at mobilian.com (Amritansh Raghav)
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 10:09:08 -0800
Subject: Extending struct.unpack
References: <t7evmnoqmpii83@corp.supernews.com> <rbdf7tstpdkoldvcpc6lor3e723u7k2rgo@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <t7gl6a1n7hd8a8@corp.supernews.com>

All Ethernet (and most IEEE MAC addresses) be they group or directed are
6bytes long, and I would like to manipulate them as a single entity simply
because I have an array of those and dont want to expose tuple of tuples.

"Tim Roberts" <timr at probo.com> wrote in message
news:rbdf7tstpdkoldvcpc6lor3e723u7k2rgo at 4ax.com...
> "Amritansh Raghav" <amritansh at mobilian.com> wrote:
> >
> >p.s (for more info - the buffer i want to unpack contains an ethernet
> >address which is 6 bytes. currently i unpack it using 6B, but i would
like
> >to specify it as say E and have unpack return a 6byte long number)
>
> What kind of Ethernet address is 6 bytes?  You mean a MAC address?  Those
> aren't usually manipulated as a single 6-byte entity.
> --
> - Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
>   Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.




From donn at u.washington.edu  Wed Jan 17 13:48:16 2001
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: 17 Jan 2001 18:48:16 GMT
Subject: using __init__ with params ( somewhat long )
References: <slrn969988.5uj.corey@scanner.axcelerant.com> <902CA0151rcamesz@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <944pdg$f6g$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>

Quoth rcameszREMOVETHIS at dds.removethistoo.nl (Robert Amesz):
| Corey wrote:
|> I'm new to Python ( from 5 odd years of Perl ), so
|> please bare with me...  
|          ^^^^
|
| Ehm... You *are* aware this is comp.lang.python and *not* a nudist
| colony, aren't you? 

Come on, this is the Internet, where no one knows you're naked.

As for the flesh of the subject, I have seen plenty of good ideas
in the followups about how one could implement the requirements,
with one exception - he seemed quite concerned about whether this
or that usage would be deemed appropriate and in accordance with
Python stylistic conventions.

I personally suspect trouble when I hear something like "how should
I, in this my first Python program, provide for accessor methods for
my class instance variables along with a back door for random case
user input."  I don't know how close we can get to conventional
Python usage from there, at any rate, so in case it helps I will
just point out that one of the more intractable dilemmas in Python
revolves around the __init__() function and inheritance.  While
I guess there is no consensus on how to handle it, I think it's
safe to say that the more stuff you can move to functions other
than __init__(), the easier it is to deal with what's left.

	Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu


From Daniel.Kinnaer at AdValvas.be  Sat Jan  6 16:27:51 2001
From: Daniel.Kinnaer at AdValvas.be (Daniel)
Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2001 21:27:51 GMT
Subject: How to store the contents of a file into a list?
References: <3a576f75.41616667@news.skynet.be> <mailman.978813967.1426.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3a578d4c.49256964@news.skynet.be>

On Sat, 6 Jan 2001 14:44:45 -0600 (CST), Skip Montanaro
<skip at mojam.com> wrote:


>Try this:
>
>  f = open("/tmp/recordfile")
>  l1 = []
>  for line in f.readlines():
>    line = line.rstrip()	# remove trailing line ending
>    l1.append(line.split(",")
>
>The split at the commas maps the string "rec11,rec12,rec13" into the list
>["rec11","rec12","rec13"].  That list gets appended to l1 which winds up as
>a list of lists of strings instead of a list of strings.
>
>Cheers,
>
>-- 
>Skip Montanaro (skip at mojam.com)

Skip, Emile, thanks for the replies.  I've learned what that split()
means after all!

best regards,
Daniel
>Support the Mojam.com Affiliates Program: http://www.mojam.com/affl/
>(847)971-7098
>



From kare at speech.kth.se  Wed Jan 31 05:01:33 2001
From: kare at speech.kth.se (Kare Sjolander)
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 11:01:33 +0100
Subject: ANNOUNCE: The Snack Sound Toolkit v2.0.6
Message-ID: <3A77E27D.C5A544AE@speech.kth.se>

This release contains:

* A couple of new features

* Several bug-fixes, including a bug which caused a crash on Win9x/NT
  after ~30 record operations

* Updated demos

The Snack Sound Toolkit is designed to be used with a scripting
language.
Currently it supports Tcl/Tk and Python.
Snack adds commands to play, record, and process sound and supports
in-memory sound objects, file based audio, and streaming audio.
It handles fileformats such as WAV, MP3, AU, AIFF, and NIST/Sphere.
Snack is extensible, new commands, filters, and sound file formats can
be added using the Snack C-library. An easy to build example extension
is contained in the source distribution.
Snack also does sound visualization, e.g. waveforms and spectrograms.
The visualization objects update in real-time and can output postscript.

Snack works with Tcl8.0 - Tcl8.4 and Python 1.5.2-2.0
Platforms: Linux, Solaris, HP-UX, IRIX, NetBSD, Macintosh, and
Windows 95/98/NT/2K.

Source and binaries can be downloaded from
http://www.speech.kth.se/snack/

Regards,
Kare Sjolander
kare at speech.kth.se




From jessw at loop.com  Mon Jan  1 13:44:03 2001
From: jessw at loop.com (Jesse W)
Date: Mon, 01 Jan 2001 10:44:03 -0800
Subject: Accessing variables created after import in imported files
References: <3A4FFBCB.76A7@loop.com> <t506vnkc2h6r72@corp.supernews.com> <3A503C07.6040@loop.com> <LR046.8$Rb.28538@typhoon.nyroc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <3A50CFF3.1472@loop.com>

Dear Darrell, 
	Thank you.  If I seperate the executing code from the definitions, it
works.  But what is a mutual dependency, and why should that cause a
class to not appear when it is first imported?
						Thank you,
							Jesse Weinstein

Darrell wrote:
> 
> Hi Jesse
> 
> My take on this is that you have a mutual dependency to remove.
> One possible solution:  Don't let file1 and file2 import each other.
> 
> Create file3:
> import file1, file2
> 
> TheGame=file1.Game()
> foo = file2.ThingThatUsesGameClass(TheGame)
> 
> --Darrell
> 
> "Jesse W" wrote:
> > But, now I am faced with another strange and puzzinling
> > probblem; however, this one I have found a solution for, but I have no
> > idea _why_ the solution works.  When I run the code I wrote up, with
> > your change, it gives an AttributeError on the use of
> > ThingThatUsesGameClass in file1.  However, if you reload file2 after
> > importing it, then the code works perfectly.  Why?  How?  This makes no
> > sense!  As far as I knew, importing and reloading were identical, as
> > long as the file was unchanged.  Do you have any ideas about why this
> > could be?
> >
> > Thank you for your solution,
> > Jesse W
> >


From wware at world.std.com  Tue Jan 16 23:40:55 2001
From: wware at world.std.com (Will Ware)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 04:40:55 GMT
Subject: Are there Tkinter examples somewhere?
References: <20010117000807.198D9E951@mail.python.org> <mailman.979701138.11862.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <G7AIC7.HIJ@world.std.com>

Terry Hancock (hancock at earthlink.net) wrote:
> I'm trying to learn how to use the Tkinter toolkit...
> Is there somewhere I can find sample
> code and stuff to get me started?

The Unix source distribution has some wonderful examples, which you
can also find here:
http://www.fsck.org/doc/python/examples/Demo/tkinter/
I don't recall whether the Scale widget is specifically highlighted
in any of the examples. Also try this:
http://www.python.org/doc/life-preserver/
This might be helpful:
http://www.python.org/doc/life-preserver/ClassScale.html

-- 
import string,time,os;print string.join((lambda x:x[:10]+x[8:])(map(
lambda x:string.center("*"*(lambda x:((x<24) ### Seasons Greetings, Will Ware
*(x-3))+3)(x),24),range(1,28, 2))),"\n") ################ wware at world.std.com


From junaftnoon at nospamplzyahoo.com  Mon Jan  1 09:38:34 2001
From: junaftnoon at nospamplzyahoo.com (June Kim)
Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2001 23:38:34 +0900
Subject: Internal processing of extended slicing
Message-ID: <92q4rp$q15$1@news.nuri.net>

Some observations on extended slice syntax gave me a clue:

class eslice:
    def __getitem__(self,arg)
        print arg

>>> a=eslice()
>>> a[0:1:10]
slice(0,1,10)
>>> a[0:1:20,10:15, ...]
(slice(0, 1, 20), slice(10, 15, None), Ellipsis)

And as the Python Reference Manual goes, "The primary must evaluate to a
mapping object, and it is indexed with a key that is constructed from the
slice list, ..., the conversion of the lone slice item is the key. ... The
conversion of a proper slice is a slice object..."

So I supposed,

>>> slidic={slice(0,2,1):100}
>>> slidic[0:2:1]

would give me 100, but instead it spits out:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
KeyError: slice(0, 2, 1)


The problem seems to be the fact that:

>>> slice(0,2,1) == slice(0,2,1)
0

What is the internal process of e-slice syntax with dictionaries and how can
I get access to 100 in the dictionary?

ps. I have no problem using e-slice with NumPy arrays but wants to know the
internals.




From sholden at holdenweb.com  Thu Jan 11 08:03:07 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 08:03:07 -0500
Subject: boolean xor
References: <93ace8$nmo$1@panix3.panix.com> <93i7ne$5dk$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <93i9ff$q4l$1@slb0.atl.mindspring.net> <pI576.21295$ge4.9910815@news2.rdc2.tx.home.com> <93iuj9$jta$1@slb3.atl.mindspring.net> <cLa76.23299$ge4.10502177@news2.rdc2.tx.home.com> <93jls9$v12$1@slb3.atl.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <Tbi76.10504$X3.66627@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>

"Andrew Dalke" <dalke at acm.org> wrote in message
news:93jls9$v12$1 at slb3.atl.mindspring.net...
> Rainer Deyke wrote:
> >If you want to play that way, the previous version is also flawed:
> >
> >not ( (a and b) or (not (a or b)) )
> >
> >In any case except where both 'a' and 'b' are true, the truth
> >value of 'a' is calculated twice.
>
> True, but I didn't really say that.  Here's a
> recapitulation of the thread.
>
> Aahz said he was using:
> def xor(a,b):
>     return not ( (a and b) or (not (a or b)) )
>
> Nicolas (ndev22 at yahoo.com) suggested instead using:
> def xor(a,b):
>   return not(a==b)
>
> I pointed out that Aahz's expression compares the truth value
> of the object and doesn't compare things them directly, so
> the proper form of Nicolas' code must use operator.truth.
>
> You applied DeMorgan's law to my quote of Aahz's original
> statement, to get:
> def xor(a, b):
>     return (a or b) and not (a and b)
>
> This was a backtrack on the thread and I was actually pointing
> out the difference between your modified form of Aahz's
> code and my corrected form of Nicolas's interpretation of
> Aahz's.
>
> Got it?  :)
>
>                     Andrew
>                     dalke at acm.org

A possibly salient point which hasn't been explicitly stated in this thread
(but might have been, seventeen days ago, my aging memory and general
decreptitude being what it is) is that the binary logical operators
short-circuit, and return the value of the last operand they evaluated. Even
more explicitly:

    A and B returns A (without evaluating B) if A evaluates to false:
    so you might get an empty list, a null string, whatever

    A or B returns B if A evaluates to false:
    so you might get *anything*

Because the == operator is pretty much a value comparison, it will not (for
example) accept that the empty list and the empty tuple are equal, even
though they are, for Boolean purposes, both false. So you need to compare
for equality of the Boolean values associated with things, rather than the
things themselves.

The "not" operator will always return 0 or 1, but "and" and "or" are only
guaranteed to return something which will yield the correct truth value in a
Boolean context.  So the only way to *guarantee* a truly Boolean result is
to ensure "not" is applied at the top level of your expression. I have even
used

    not not X

to map Boolean truth to (1, 0). But that's not something you wouldn't not
want to do on a regular basis, probably.

And, of course, perhaps nobody cared.  Sorry.

getting-tangled-in-his-own-knots-ly y'rs  - steve





From sholden at holdenweb.com  Thu Jan 18 02:58:38 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 02:58:38 -0500
Subject: Automatic Documentation Tools?
References: <mailman.979786073.2627.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Nqx96.9836$CW.55457@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>

"Terry Hancock" <hancock at earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:mailman.979786073.2627.python-list at python.org...
> I've seen a number of automatically generated documentation
> on the web for C/C++ source code.  Is there anything like
> this for Python?  I've taken over documenting a piece of
> code, and it would be nice to at list have a list of classes,
> attributes, and methods from which to work.  Seems like it
> ought to be automateable, but I don't know the fastest way
> to do it.
>
> Any suggestions?
>
> --
> Terry Hancock
> hancock at earthlink.net
>
Terry:

I posted this some time ago. It won't give you the attributes, but at least
you'll know where to look for the classes and functions, and the listing it
builds will give you a start on your documentation.

    http://www.holdenweb.com/Python/

regards
 Steve




From jkndeja at my-deja.com  Tue Jan  9 07:57:18 2001
From: jkndeja at my-deja.com (jkndeja at my-deja.com)
Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2001 12:57:18 GMT
Subject: escape sequences and string comparisons
References: <93cboe$ctj$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <93elo7$aoh$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <93f1rd$iv7$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

OK, answering my own question: The Online Python documentation says
(re. String literals, _my emphasis_):

"Unlike Standard C, all unrecognized escape sequences are left in the
string unchanged, i.e., _the backslash is left in the string_. (This
behavior is useful when debugging: if an escape sequence is mistyped,
the resulting output is more easily recognized as broken.) "

To which I reply:
	- Serves me right for not RTFM ... ;-/
	- not sure that I'm convinced by the debugging argument
	- I still think this makes re.escape() less useful than it
might be. How about a function which turns a string into an 'escaped'
form such that it would be an 'exact' RE match with itself?

I'll go and lie down now. Thanks for listening ;-)

	jon N


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From news at dorb.com  Mon Jan  1 10:32:44 2001
From: news at dorb.com (Darrell)
Date: Mon, 01 Jan 2001 15:32:44 GMT
Subject: Defining and calling functions in Python
References: <3A509C1A.57502916@online.no>
Message-ID: <wq146.9$Rb.28406@typhoon.nyroc.rr.com>

Code is executed in the order seen.
So you can't call a function before it's defined.

Try this:

def a():
    print "-a1-"

a()

def a():
    print "-a2-"

a()

Or for increased fun with the letter 'a':
>>> def a():
...     print "-a1-"
...
>>> def a(a=a):
...     a()
...     print "-a2-"
...
>>> a()
-a1-
-a2-
>>>

--Darrell

"Stein Surland" wrote:
> I have this function:
>
> def WriteToFile(Outfile, Filecontent):
>     Utopened = []
>     Utopened = open(Outfile, 'w')
>     Utopened.write(string.join(Filecontent,'\n'))
>     Utopened.close()
>
> When this function is called with:
>
>      WriteToFile('file.txt', 'Some text')
>
> before the function is declared, I get this error message:
>
> Traceback (innermost last):
>   File "./RPMParser.py", line 21, in ?
>     WriteToFile('file.txt', 'Some text')
> NameError: WriteToFile
>
>
> But when I move the functioncall after the definition, it works OK. What
> am I missing
> here? I thought, as Python is an interpreted language, that I didn't
> need to "declare in order", as in C++?
>
> Stein
> --
>
> Stein Surland   Trying is the first step towards failure
> ssurland at online.no - Homer Simpson
> http://home.online.no/~ssurland/
> --
> http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list




From glenfant at equod.com.nospam  Wed Jan 31 15:01:13 2001
From: glenfant at equod.com.nospam (Gilles Lenfant)
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 21:01:13 +0100
Subject: Installing Mandrake 7.2
References: <3a786a5a.162938@news.ruralnet.net.au>
Message-ID: <959qjl$7se$1@reader1.imaginet.fr>

Hmmm...

There's an alt.os.linux.mandrake newsgroup for this kind of post.

<banksam at swanhill.net.au> a ?crit dans le message news:
3a786a5a.162938 at news.ruralnet.net.au...
> When installing it crashed at the stage of making a boot floppy.  This
> happened several times so then we tried a text install and skipped the
> floppy.  That worked.  Then we tried making the floppy from within
> Linux.  That crashed.  We tried formatting a floppy.  That worked ok.
> Then we tried making a boot disk again.  The system crashed.  So we
> tried making a boot disk manually with
>
> dd if=/boot/vmlinuz2.2....  of=dev/fd0 bs=8192
>
> I know this works.  I've done it before.  But the system I am talking
> about crashed and then wouldn't reboot.
>
> Has anyone else had similar problems?  Has anyone found a solution??
>
> Arthur



From mbel44 at dial.pipex.net  Tue Jan 23 08:29:13 2001
From: mbel44 at dial.pipex.net (Toby Dickenson)
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 13:29:13 +0000
Subject: urllib.urlretrieve("http://free.bsdshell.net/")
References: <mailman.980245885.26132.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <6b1r6tsfjat9fgd5qju029tbeev3i2hgk3@4ax.com>

Oleg Broytmann <phd at phd.pp.ru> wrote:

>Hello!
>
>   Strange problem with urllib: urlretrieve("http://free.bsdshell.net/")
>always reports "Connection refused". Always:
>
>Traceback (innermost last):

>  File "/usr/local/lib/python1.5/httplib.py", line 79, in connect
>    self.sock.connect(host, port)
>IOError: [Errno socket error] (111, 'Connection refused')
>
>   But I always can connect to the site using any WWW browser.

Is your browser using a proxy that python doesnt know about?

Toby Dickenson
tdickenson at geminidataloggers.com


From joejava at dragonat.net  Wed Jan 10 22:27:33 2001
From: joejava at dragonat.net (Joel Ricker)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 22:27:33 -0500
Subject: is Python fully object oriented ?
References: <20010110184830.13286.00000826@ng-fg1.aol.com>
Message-ID: <9Q976.2418$gN3.130447@news1.atl>

Crutoy wrote in message <20010110184830.13286.00000826 at ng-fg1.aol.com>...
>Hi , i haven't used Python but i do have experience in other languages vb ,
>java , c++ . Is Python a fully object oriented ? Thanks

There is a thread mis-named "migrating to perl" (should have been *from
perl*) that I posted not long ago where I raised the same question and got
quite a few responses by this newsgroup with a variety of answers to this
question plus source code examples.  It can be read at Deja news at:
http://x57.deja.com/=gh/threadmsg_ct.xp?AN=712012551.1&mhitnum=0&CONTEXT=979
183801.1855520795

Hope that helps
Joel
--
Joel Ricker     joejava at dragoncat.net     Just Another Python Hacker
=======================================================================
I have been Perl-Free for 6 Days, 0 Hours, 37 Minutes, and 49 Seconds.





From sholden at holdenweb.com  Wed Jan 10 22:22:21 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 22:22:21 -0500
Subject: Reading Microsoft Outlook Express .dbx files
References: <h7_66.8949$X3.91000@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com> <90262DD44rcamesz@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <hH976.4040$24.46050@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com>

I'd like to thank everyone who responded to my query about reading OE5 .dbx
files. It no longer seems quite such a black art.

If any Python comes out of this I'll be sure to make it available.

regards
 Steve




From syver at NOSPAMcyberwatcher.com  Thu Jan 11 22:06:46 2001
From: syver at NOSPAMcyberwatcher.com (Syver Enstad)
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 04:06:46 +0100
Subject: Using Python COM objects from C++
References: <ixe76.2667$k25.38410@news1.oke.nextra.no>
Message-ID: <93lsgt$q72$1@troll.powertech.no>

"Syver Enstad" <syver at NOSPAMcyberwatcher.com> wrote in message
news:ixe76.2667$k25.38410 at news1.oke.nextra.no...
> I don't know if this has been answered before here but..
>
> I know how to call the python COM object using "pure" IDispatch, but is it
> possible to make a type library and ensure that the Python class
> implementing the COM complies with it?
>
> The problem would be the dispatch id's as far as I can see. I don't know
how
> to specify the dispatch id's that the method's in the python object should
> have.
>
I found an okay solution.

Make your python com object just as you use to, but:

Make the class variable _public_methods_ empty, like this.
_public_methods = []

Make a class variable _dispid_to_func_ that is a dictionary mapping dispids
to function names. Like this:
    _dispid_to_func_ = {0x1:'Dummy', 0x2:'Swear'}

If you want to implement a dispinterface from a typelibrary/idl file adjust
the _dispid_to_func_ dictionary so it matches the idl.




From rcameszREMOVETHIS at dds.removethistoo.nl  Sun Jan 14 20:58:46 2001
From: rcameszREMOVETHIS at dds.removethistoo.nl (Robert Amesz)
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 01:58:46 GMT
Subject: why no "do : until"?
References: <mailman.979188492.12187.python-list@python.org> <90278A4rcamesz@127.0.0.1> <mailman.979261813.31482.python-list@python.org> <t5su71caku5gd0@corp.supernews.com> <3A5F264D.4D7C024A@gte.net>
Message-ID: <902A187ABrcamesz@127.0.0.1>

Steve Williams wrote:

>Andrew Henshaw wrote:
>
>> "D-Man" <dsh8290 at rit.edu> wrote in message
>> news:mailman.979261813.31482.python-list at python.org...
>> > On Fri, Jan 12, 2001 at 12:33:58AM +0000, Robert Amesz wrote:
>> > [snip]
>> ...snip
>> [more snip]
>
>>
>> Python's existing 'if condition: break', with its colon, stands
>> out and, more clearly than the 'until', shows its true function;
>> which is, essentially, a goto past 'something else' and out of the
>> loop.  I believe that support for this is more likely than for the
>> other more significant changes.
>>
>
>If you have nested 'do' statements, you have to keep track of the
>nesting structure to find a break target.  Searching for the first
>'break' after a 'do' may or may not find the loop invariant.
>
>Similarly, if you have multiple 'breaks' for a single 'do', the
>first one you find may not be the one that bit you.

The same goes for while and for loops, of course. Anyway, breaks and 
returns are just too useful to do without. (Continues, however, are 
*much* rarer.)


>With 'break', the program flow no longer corresponds to the program
>listing (the original complaint about g*t*, IIRC).

Well, *o*os are a lot more 'insidious' than breaks, continues and 
returns. G***s will let you jump all over the place, whereas the others 
have fixed targets. They're lesser evils, so to speak. 


Robert Amesz



From tim.one at home.com  Tue Jan 30 01:16:31 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 01:16:31 -0500
Subject: Python vs Ruby
In-Reply-To: <20010129111820.C15924@harmony.cs.rit.edu>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCIECKIMAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Neil Schemenauer]
> RC also works quite well with data caches and VM managers.  Using
> the Boehm-Demers GC with Python and disabling reference counting
> slows the interpreter down by a significant amount.

[D-Man]
> Really?  This is interesting.  I had thought that it would be faster.
> At the very least, the simple assignment statment can be simple.  With
> RC, both arguments' ref counts have to be checked first and then
> updated appropriately.

So consider this:

>>> from random import choice
>>> addresses = {}
>>> letters = "abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz"
>>> for i in xrange(100000):
...     s = choice(letters) + " " + choice(letters)
...     addresses[id(s)] = 1
...
>>> len(addresses)
9
>>>

Thanks to refcounting, the storage for "s" is reclaimed on each iteration,
and overwhelmingly most iterations manage to reuse the storage left behind
from a preceding iteration.  As Neil said, that's very cache-friendly.
Without refcounting, you're likely to stomp on new memory addresses each
iteration until some limit is reached, then gc will go lurching all over a
large blob of memory at least once (possibly more) cleaning it up.  That's
cache-hostile.

Python has extremely high dynamic memory throughput, because *nothing* is
exempted from the "everything's an object, and all objects are
heap-allocated" scheme.  Mark-&-sweep-- and especially simple M&S --is
happier with modest rates of memory turnover.

> ...
> All the tests I've seen of the Boehm collector used C programs
> originally designed for malloc/free, not using any ref counting schemes.
> Maybe this has an effect?

No C program I know of does dynamic allocation on virtually every line.
Python programs do.  C++ is somewhere between them, but closer to the C end.

> I wonder if python was designed for the collector instead of ref
> counting if this would improve its performance . . .

There's no sense in which Python was designed "for" ref counting.  The
single highest-payoff thing it could do here, regardless of garbage
collection scheme, would be to grow a lot of hair to *exempt* some objects
from participating in the gc scheme du jour.  For example, in a language
with more sanely static semantics, it would be easy to see in the example
above that there's no need to allocate an integer object for the result of
id(s) each time through the loop -- it could just store that result on a
stack (or in a register) and exempt it entirely from refcounting (or M&S, or
whatever).  Similarly for the loop index "i", and the function object
"choice".

BTW, note that Perl also does refcounting, and for the same reasons.  The
idea that fancier gc schemes must be faster is ... an idea <0.9 wink>.

if-anything-about-gc-seems-obvious-it's-an-illusion-ly y'rs  - tim




From aahz at panix.com  Fri Jan 19 10:45:00 2001
From: aahz at panix.com (Aahz Maruch)
Date: 19 Jan 2001 07:45:00 -0800
Subject: How to close all files between fork and exec?
References: <yv27l3upooj.fsf@lionsp093.lion-ag.de> <yv27l3t483r.fsf@lionsp093.lion-ag.de> <9475av$t13$1@panix2.panix.com> <yv2lms8lyre.fsf@lionsp093.lion-ag.de>
Message-ID: <949nds$d55$1@panix6.panix.com>

In article <yv2lms8lyre.fsf at lionsp093.lion-ag.de>,
Harald Kirsch  <kirschh at lionbioscience.com> wrote:
>aahz at panix.com (Aahz Maruch) writes:
>>
>> from fork import open
> 
>Hmm, this is becoming somehow interesting because I have got no idea
>why you think this relates in any way to my question. Either you try
>to tease me or we have a communication problem. But I think I should
>stay calm and try to start all over:
>
>Suppose you have the assignment to write a module for me which, for
>whatever reasons, has to fork/exec certain subprocesses. I want to use
>your module as a service in my software. But my software will have a
>whole bunch of files open when it calls your module. How did your
>module keep track of all these files so that it is able to close them
>all before execing. --- If you now say that your module cannot do that
>and that it would be the obligation of my software to close unneded
>files before calling your module, I at least start to understand your
>arguments. However I maintain the opinion that this would be nonsense.

To expand on my terse comment, "from fork import open" replaces the
builtin function open() with the function from the fork module.  This
function is a thin wrapper around the builtin open() that tracks all
files that have ever been opened.  You can't write a wrapper for close()
unless you also design a UserFile class that you return from open; it's
not that useful, anyway, because a standard Python idiom is to let files
fall out of scope and let them close themselves (which unfortunately
won't happen in programs that use the fork module because the fork module
will retain a reference; it's a trade-off).

When you call the actual fork/exec function, it just checks to see which
of the stored file handles are still open and then closes them.
-- 
                      --- Aahz (Copyright 2001 by aahz at pobox.com)

Androgynous poly kinky vanilla queer het    <*>     http://www.rahul.net/aahz/
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6

I guess I mostly see Life [tm] as a process of closing doors that you
might want to go through.  --Aahz


From mwh21 at cam.ac.uk  Mon Jan 29 12:41:32 2001
From: mwh21 at cam.ac.uk (Michael Hudson)
Date: 29 Jan 2001 17:41:32 +0000
Subject: Scope rules in Python
References: <mu6b7t085im3cn22f9b8prdg6riaqd46gp@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <m3zogaqmr7.fsf@atrus.jesus.cam.ac.uk>

Fernando Rodr?guez <spamers at must.die> writes:

> Hi!
> 
> 	Is there any plans to change the scope rules in Python, so that
> function B can also access everything (including itself) defined inside
> function A?:

Use Python 2.1 (tho' not the current alpha - it'll be in 2.1a2).

this-time-machines-running-backwards-ly y'rs
M.

-- 
  Indeed, when I design my killer language, the identifiers "foo" and
  "bar" will be reserved words, never used, and not even mentioned in
  the reference manual. Any program using one will simply dump core
  without comment. Multitudes will rejoice. -- Tim Peters, 29 Apr 1998


From ngreco at softhome.net  Sat Jan 27 17:38:48 2001
From: ngreco at softhome.net (Nahuel Greco)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 19:38:48 -0300
Subject: Pyditor, Text editor fully extendible in python a la' Emacs
Message-ID: <20010127193848.59d0f64b.ngreco@softhome.net>


I have a dream, of a perfect text editor (im calling it pyditor, but name it
as you want ):

	* Coded in C/Python, Scriptable with python in the emacs/elisp way

	* Font handling - pretty syntax highlighting, with color schemes
          themables, (the default will be audited by an user interfase
          expert :)

	* Various backends - PyGTK, PyQT, PyQuartz(?), and.. (this is
	  important to me and too much other people) PyNcurses!
          antialiased text if the backend support that. (soon gtk and qt)

	* ligthweight in speed & ram
	
	* Portable as python and the "backends" are

	* No python centric - i mean, no another IDLE, i want a editor that
          you can script in python, but you can use (as modes in xemacs),
          python-mode.py, c-mode.py, perl-mode.py, java-mode.py , etc etc.

        * Filesystem abstraction - you can open&save files in an http site
          (with webdav), ftp, inside a tar.gz, etc. (easy with python!)

	* CVS support

	* Crypt support (via GPG), open crypted files in the disk, edit them,
          and save encrypted again.

	* Mouse capable but no mouse addict - there is keyb shorcuts for all
          that you can do.. for example, if i have 3 editor windows opened, i
          want to move to the window in the left of the current with 
          alt+leftarrow

	* Jython portable?

	* Full UNICODE internationalization !!!!! (easy with python! :)
        
	* As i say before, "emacs modes", like fly-spell (auto word checking),
          etc.

	* Easy use, as commands are documented in the modules via doc strings
          and, most commands are reachable in a pull-down menu.

	* Editor modules repository - you need something for your editor?, 
          go to File/Modules/Repository and then download the latest versions.
	  Also to avoid duplicate effort.

	* Easy configurable - the user can configure all the modules in the
          same place, with a common interfase.
          
	* User / Newbie friendly, pulldown menus.
	
	* Good canvas - suppose that you can type latex code in a text window,
          and see  at the same time the effects of that code in a latex 
          wysiwyg rendered window, then, switch to the wysiwyg window, select
          a different font from a pulldown box, change that window, and see
          the changes reflected in the text window.

	* Centralized keyboard "shorcuts" managment - you can go to a screen
          with all the key combinations registered and the modules that use
          it... you can attach custom code to that keyboard event, or change
          all of them to "emacs-friendly" o "vi-friendly" with only a click

	* client server model like gnuclient / xemacs?

 Finally, think about the easy that the modules will be writted in python, if
 you need to do a xml-mode, you already have the support, you need to read
 some db from the editor for something?, corba? you have support, etc.

 With a good HOWTO-Extend-Pyditor documentation, the ease of programming
 of python, and the large py community, is not a dream to reach in
 considerably little time the quantity of extension modules of xemacs /
 xemacs functionality.

 I cant think a way that this will not be a python killer-app, and extend
 the use of python to all the programmers / guys that use too much a text
 editor community.

 I dont know this, (say me if im wrong), but the big effort in emacs was to
 create / debug the elisp engine / libraries.... we already have the 
 python interpreter and the libs!
	
 But, i dont have the time and the editor code knowledge to code this piece of
 software, im only posting the ideas. I think that before write this, will be
 good to analize the code / API of Emacs / Xemacs / Texmacs / Lyx, and other
 editors to code the perfect one :)

 Later, if you want to write a mail editor, you use the text editor module inside
 your MUA framework, or your ide / interfase builder.

 What do you think?


 There is already a project like this? (btw, i dont like wily :)

(Forgive my bad english :))

---------------------------------
          Nahuel Greco
   http://www.codelarvs.com.ar
  Web Development - Open Source
   Game programming - Research
---------------------------------



From stuarts at 171.69.180.197  Wed Jan 17 19:21:56 2001
From: stuarts at 171.69.180.197 (Stuart Stanley)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 00:21:56 -0000
Subject: Finding source from class or instance?
Message-ID: <979777210.145620@sj-nntpcache-5>


Folks,

Is there a (easy!) way to get the source code from a class or instance
of a class?  A preference would lie in just getting the source of the
base class itself, but I would settle for getting the file name where
the base class lives in.  I figure the information is sitting in the
modules somewhere, but I don't know how to navigate there to get it....

Thanks!  --stuart


-- 
 "Computer Science is no more about computers than | Stuart Stanley
 astronomy is about telescopes." - E. W. Dijkstra  | stuarts at cisco.com
                                                   | Cisco Systems, inc
                                                   | St Paul, MN
                                                   | 612.578.6412


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Jan 19 04:10:12 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 10:10:12 +0100
Subject: PSU uses emacs?
References: <948e4b$hm0$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <948fvj$oq1$1@panix6.panix.com> <3A67CDC3.7EACB07D@Lugoj.Com>
Message-ID: <9490t009on@news2.newsguy.com>

"James Logajan" <JamesL at Lugoj.Com> wrote in message
news:3A67CDC3.7EACB07D at Lugoj.Com...
> Aahz Maruch wrote:
> > vi
>
> Viva vi!

vi here too (gvim, actually -- Python-programmable and all:-).


Alex





From phd at phd.pp.ru  Tue Jan 23 06:06:46 2001
From: phd at phd.pp.ru (Oleg Broytmann)
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 14:06:46 +0300 (MSK)
Subject: os.system easy question
In-Reply-To: <slrn96qrgp.gg.huwdotlynes@Marvin.ic.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0101231405500.9765-100000@fep132.fep.ru>

On 23 Jan 2001, Huw Lynes wrote:
> os.system("program %s" % filename)
>
> which would be fine if the program exited after running,
> however it doesn't. So the script stops when program is run
> for the first time. So the question is how to kill the
> external program after it has run. Or alternatively how to
> run an external program in such a way that the script will
> not halt.

   But why does not the program finished?

> This is running on linux BTW.

   fork + timeout

Oleg.
----
     Oleg Broytmann            http://phd.pp.ru/            phd at phd.pp.ru
           Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN.




From Lutz.Schroeer at tu-clausthal.de  Mon Jan  1 19:46:45 2001
From: Lutz.Schroeer at tu-clausthal.de (Lutz Schroeer)
Date: 2 Jan 2001 00:46:45 GMT
Subject: Simulating WWW button press
References: <Xns901CE2154Latzikatz@139.174.2.56> <a9946.17874$K9.1101544@pouncer.easynews.com>
Message-ID: <Xns901D12FBBLatzikatz@139.174.2.56>

>If you are exploring it via Internet Explorer and win32com, ...

Oops, I forgot to tell that I am using SunOS 5.7...

Thanks


From arinagour at yahoo.co.uk  Wed Jan 17 09:13:24 2001
From: arinagour at yahoo.co.uk (chris lamb)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 14:13:24 -0000
Subject: Securing passwords stored inside of a database field using Python
Message-ID: <NKh96.874$eI2.31689@NewsReader>

What would be the recommended method of storing password strings inside of a
database field in such a way as to make them relatively secure from people
with access to the db system?

A one way encryption algorithm? If so what would be recommended by anyone<

Any advice gratefully received

Chris




From tbryan at python.net  Sat Jan  6 08:35:26 2001
From: tbryan at python.net (Thomas A. Bryan)
Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2001 08:35:26 -0500
Subject: Migrating to perl?
References: <3Fa56.4580$of7.216286@news1.atl> <mailman.978670867.31055.python-list@python.org> <V%c56.4648$of7.221797@news1.atl> <BLj56.3858$XZ5.132068@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com> <6Nk56.822$4Z.64804@news2.atl> <934nse02oal@news2.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <3A571F1E.2D25E978@python.net>

Alex Martelli wrote:
> 
> "Joel Ricker" <joejava at dragonat.net> wrote in message
> news:6Nk56.822$4Z.64804 at news2.atl...
>     [snip]
> > Speaking of which, saw the entries of Obfuscated Code in the FAQ.  Whats
> the
> > c.l.py equivalent of "Just Another Perl Hacker"?
> 
>     print "Just another Python hacker"
> 
> (Python is case-sensitive, so one would not capitalize needlessly, and
> it emphasizes the "one obviously correct way", with straightforwardness
> and simplicity as clear goals...).
> 

That's funny.  Although there *is* more than one way to do this in Python, 
Python users don't seem to care for exercises in finding and displaying 
"neat tricks" in Python.  Most of the newsgroup postings seem to be 
discussion of usage of a particular module, how the language (should) 
work, and implementing a well-designed class/component.

Of course, there was the one time that Gerrit claimed to have ripped 
off the open and close brace keys from his keyboard because of his 
zeal for Python.  I remember a long discussion about how to slice and 
index without brackets.  :)

that-and-monty-python-jokes-ly yours
---Tom


From rwklee at home.com  Mon Jan 22 23:33:22 2001
From: rwklee at home.com (Rick Lee)
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 04:33:22 GMT
Subject: observer design pattern
References: <94i340$4er$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <3A6CA19C.89A6DFB2@attglobal.net>
Message-ID: <3A6D0992.C86D92CD@home.com>

What Design Patterns book are you referring to?

- Rick Lee

Roland Schlenker wrote:

> fray_fernando at my-deja.com wrote:
> >
> > Where can I find some python sample code implementing the observer
> > pattern? O:-)
> > TIA
> >
> > Sent via Deja.com
> > http://www.deja.com/
>
> This is the example in the Design Patterns book for the observer
> pattern written in Python.
>
> # Demonstrate an observer pattern.
>
> import time
>
> class Observer:
>     def __init__(self):
>         pass
>     def update(self, theChangedSubject):
>         pass
>
> class Subject:
>     def __init__(self):
>         self.observerList = []
>     def attach(self, observer):
>         self.observerList.append(observer)
>     def detach(self, observer):
>         self.observerList.remove(observer)
>     def notify(self):
>         for observer in self.observerList:
>             observer.update(self)
>
> class ClockTimer(Subject):
>     def __init__(self):
>         Subject.__init__(self)
>         self.localTime = time.localtime(time.time())
>     def getHour(self):
>         return self.localTime[3]
>     def getMinute(self):
>         return self.localTime[4]
>     def getSecond(self):
>         return self.localTime[5]
>     def tick(self):
>         while 1:
>             time.sleep(1)
>             self.localTime = time.localtime(time.time())
>             self.notify()
>
> class DigitalClock(Observer):
>     def __init__(self, clocktimer):
>         self.clocktimer = clocktimer
>         self.clocktimer.attach(self)
>     def update(self, theChangedSubject):
>         if theChangedSubject is self.clocktimer:
>             self.draw()
>     def draw(self):
>         print 'The time is %02i:%02i:%02i' % (self.clocktimer.getHour(),
>
> self.clocktimer.getMinute(),
>
> self.clocktimer.getSecond())
>
> if __name__ == "__main__":
>     timer = ClockTimer()
>     digitalClock = DigitalClock(timer)
>     timer.tick()
>
> Roland Schlenker



From r2d2 at montezuma.acc.umu.se  Wed Jan  3 05:52:03 2001
From: r2d2 at montezuma.acc.umu.se (Niklas Frykholm)
Date: 3 Jan 2001 10:52:03 GMT
Subject: HTML parsing examples
References: <mailman.978453243.7978.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrn95612i.qg6.r2d2@montezuma.acc.umu.se>

Voitenko, Denis wrote:

>Anyways, I am trying to figure out how to parse HTML with htmlllib and I am
>completely lost. Can somone give examples?
>Say, I have a file like this
>
><html>
><body>
><p>Hello, World!
></body>
></html>
>
>I would like to find methods and contents of <body> and contents of <p>. How
>would I do that?

You can find examples in previous threads or in the effbots guide to the
standard library. Just search for sgmllib.

But you will find that extracting the content of the <p> tag is in fact much
harder than it might seem (in the general case). The reason is that the
sgmllib and htmllib modules does not "know" that the <p> tag should be
automatically closed by the </body> tag. So you will have to implement
this logic yourself. You will find that in the general case it will be
quite hard to tell exactly where a particular <p> tag starts and ends. The
net is full of poorly written web pages which makes this parsing even harder.

The task of parsing badly formatted web pages is so common and so complicated
that it really deserves its own module.  I've been doing some work on
simplifying HTML parsing and created modules for Python and Perl. You can find
them at:

	http://www.acc.umu.se/~r2d2/files/

Currently the Perl module (HTML::Transform) is the more mature one. It is
able to find the ending of <p> tags and other similar tags which are often
used in a sloppy fashion (<li>, <td>, etc). It also handles badly written
documents reasonably well. Unfortunately, this functionality has not yet
been implemented in the corresponding Python module. I plan to bring the
Python module up to the same level of maturity as the Perl module, but I
haven't had the time or incentive to do it yet.

// Niklas
 


From seefeld at sympatico.ca  Wed Jan 24 16:53:08 2001
From: seefeld at sympatico.ca (Stefan Seefeld)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 16:53:08 -0500
Subject: Synopsis 0.3 released
Message-ID: <3A6F4EC4.61E9FABD@sympatico.ca>

Synopsis is a source code documentation tool that follows a modular
architecture to adapt to different languages, comment styles and output
formats. Currently it provides parsers for IDL, C++, and Python, and a
number of formatter modules. It has the ability to scale to large projects,
and to integrate well with Makefiles to only update documentation for changed
files. One of the goals of Synopsis is to integrate the documentation between 
different languages,  for example linking implementations in any language with 
their CORBA interfaces and vice versa.

The main code is written in Python, the C++ parser is a module based on OpenC++,
and the IDL parser is a module based on the omniidl tool.

Changes:
Release 0.3 adds Python support, the ability to cross-reference across language
boundaries by means of a flexible linker module, and a formatter for graph generation,
based on graphviz.
The build process is now autoconf based.

Homepage:
http://synopsis.sourceforge.net/

Download:
http://sourceforge.net/projects/synopsis/

Regards,	Stefan



From db3l at fitlinxx.com  Mon Jan 22 15:15:37 2001
From: db3l at fitlinxx.com (David Bolen)
Date: 22 Jan 2001 15:15:37 -0500
Subject: Using Installer with PyXML
References: <mailman.980016686.29036.python-list@python.org> <u8zo374k9.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com>
Message-ID: <upuhf9wd2.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com>

I previously wrote:

> First, one short suggestion for the pyexpat.pyd issue - for your
> "misc=" line, ensure you are specifying it as "xml.parsers.pyexpat",
> and don't include the "pyd".  Otherwise I think the installer will
> look for a "pyd" module beneath the pyexpat module which it won't be
> able to find.  The module name itself is "xml.parsers.pyexpat", and
> the installer will be able to determine it's a pyd and include the
> file as a binary.  (I didn't have a 2.0 setup to verify on but with
> 1.5.2, I get the same ValueError as you if I include the extension).

I should have worked this through a little more - this will in fact
include the pyexpat.pyd file, but in the root of the distribution
image, and this flattening doesn't work when pyexpat is referenced as
part of the "xml.parsers" tree - so doing the direct "import pyexpat"
is still a requirement for the moment.

--
-- David
-- 
/-----------------------------------------------------------------------\
 \               David Bolen            \   E-mail: db3l at fitlinxx.com  /
  |             FitLinxx, Inc.            \  Phone: (203) 708-5192    |
 /  860 Canal Street, Stamford, CT  06902   \  Fax: (203) 316-5150     \
\-----------------------------------------------------------------------/


From f8dy at my-deja.com  Wed Jan 31 20:16:20 2001
From: f8dy at my-deja.com (Mark Pilgrim)
Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 01:16:20 GMT
Subject: Best way to match everything between tags
References: <DA0e6.94$o3.4354@news.world-online.no>
Message-ID: <95adcs$fru$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

In article <DA0e6.94$o3.4354 at news.world-online.no>,
  "Henning VON ROSEN" <hvrosen at world-online.no> wrote:
> Hi!
> I am learning regular expressions.
>
> What is thenatural way to match everything that is not "something"
> fx i want to maipulate all the text of a html document, but none of the tags

Regular expressions may not be the best solution for this.  Try subclassing
SGMLParser and passing the document through the parser.  Specific class
methods will be called for each start tag, each end tag, and each block of
text in between.  This gives you free reign to manipulate the
text-between-the-tags any way you like, and just pass the start/end tags
through unaltered.

See http://www.faqts.com/knowledge_base/view.phtml/aid/4200/fid/549 for a
working example.  The method you'd want to do your manipulation in is
"handle_data".

-M
--
You're smart; why haven't you learned Python yet?  http://diveintopython.org/


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From joconnor at cybermesa.com  Fri Jan 19 12:10:27 2001
From: joconnor at cybermesa.com (Jay O'Connor)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 17:10:27 GMT
Subject: who imported me?
References: <947jh5$puv$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <3a687496.7115112@news.cybermesa.com>

On Thu, 18 Jan 2001 20:26:26 GMT, sragsdale at my-deja.com wrote:

>(Hopefully) easy question: I'm writing a module that uses values in
>variables from the script that imported it.
>
>How can I tell which script is importing me?
>
>Is there some easier way to get the parent module's variable values?

>From a design perspective, this is probably a bad idea

If you want your called module to have access to the calling
module...than the calling module should probably give the called
module a way to get back to it .

If the calling module does not proivde a means of communicating with
it, yuo porbably shouldn't be trying to 

Jay O'Connor
joconnor at cybermesa.com
http://www.cybermesa.com/~joconnor

"God himself plays on the bass strings first, when he tunes the soul"


From MarkH at ActiveState.com  Tue Jan 23 00:35:44 2001
From: MarkH at ActiveState.com (Mark Hammond)
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 05:35:44 GMT
Subject: beep
References: <11941-3A6D0F37-61@storefull-166.iap.bryant.webtv.net>
Message-ID: <94j57f$2qd$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

In article <11941-3A6D0F37-61 at storefull-166.iap.bryant.webtv.net>,
  clickron at webtv.net wrote:
> What do I write to just have my pc beep. I have windows 98.
> I tried

> import winsound
> winsound.beep(400,500)
> But I get an error(exception) message.

Python is a case-sensitive language.  Try:

>>> import winsound
>>> dir(winsound)
['Beep', 'PlaySound', 'SND_ALIAS', 'SND_APPLICATION', 'SND_ASYNC', 'SND_
FILENAME', 'SND_LOOP', 'SND_MEMORY', 'SND_NODEFAULT', 'SND_NOSTOP', 'SND
_NOWAIT', 'SND_PURGE', '__doc__', '__file__', '__name__']
>>>

This shows that the function you want is "Beep".  Thus:

winsound.Beep(400,500)

Works just fine!

Mark.
> I'm not sure what I"m doing (obviously), I just downloaded Python two
> days ago and I'm just playing with it to see what I can do. Help!
>
> Ron
>
>


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From tjreedy at udel.edu  Mon Jan 29 14:25:58 2001
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 14:25:58 -0500
Subject: Hack request: rational numbers
References: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0101251759070.28148-100000@kev.ioc.ee> <951h34$tch$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <3A745D6C.2EEA931@home.nl>
Message-ID: <954g68$bl9$1@news.udel.edu>

"Jaap Spies" <jaapspies at home.nl> wrote in message
news:3A745D6C.2EEA931 at home.nl...
> You are a mathematician? Me too.
> A lot of Python People are Mathematicians.
> Nevertheless "j" will do!

Me too, and j was initially a shock, but I have decided I like it better
for two reasons:

1. It is visually more distinctive than i (by hanging down where no numbers
dare to go) and therefore less apt to be confused with 1 (especially bad
when math profs hurredly write 1i on a blackboard and forget the dot).

2. It gets away from the mistaken notion that the second component of a
complex number is any more imaginary than the first.






From erno-news at erno.iki.fi  Thu Jan 18 13:30:48 2001
From: erno-news at erno.iki.fi (Erno Kuusela)
Date: 18 Jan 2001 20:30:48 +0200
Subject: Garbage collector - please Help !!
References: <9475ob$c6v$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <kusnmgd86f.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>

In article <9475ob$c6v$1 at nnrp1.deja.com>, etienne at alias.it writes:

| This convinced me that it is due to the Python garbage collector, is
| this correct?

[...]

| I'm using PythonCore 1.5.2, Is there any resonable chance that Python
| 2.0 will do a better job?

the reference counting gc in python 1.5 does not work if you have
cyclic references between objects. it is fixed in 2.0.


   -- erno


From moshez at zadka.site.co.il  Fri Jan 26 13:22:38 2001
From: moshez at zadka.site.co.il (Moshe Zadka)
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 20:22:38 +0200 (IST)
Subject: informal representation of long integers
In-Reply-To: <DZhc6.63$g4.22706@paloalto-snr1.gtei.net>
References: <DZhc6.63$g4.22706@paloalto-snr1.gtei.net>
Message-ID: <20010126182238.2E6B8A840@darjeeling.zadka.site.co.il>

On Fri, 26 Jan 2001 16:54:59 GMT, "Randall Kern" <randy at spoke.net> wrote:

> >>> str(10L)
> '10L'
> >>> repr(10L)
> '10L'
> 
> Just curious why the 'informal' representation of 10L is '10L', rather than
> '10'.

It's not -- in Python 2.x
-- 
Moshe Zadka <sig at zadka.site.co.il>
This is a signature anti-virus. 
Please stop the spread of signature viruses!
Fingerprint: 4BD1 7705 EEC0 260A 7F21  4817 C7FC A636 46D0 1BD6



From bup.schaefer at planet-interkom.de  Thu Jan 18 15:03:03 2001
From: bup.schaefer at planet-interkom.de (Bruno Schaefer)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 20:03:03 -0000
Subject: I will kill my Python
Message-ID: <947i5n+cl18@eGroups.com>

Hi all, I have written a nice Python application with TKinter. And it 
works fine.Yes. But now I want to build an exe, but - o what ashit 
with that installer, builder, simple - confuing thing. I have spent 
many hours with blood and tears, but o what a shit, ugly shit : 
nothing works:  The end of all
I give it up. I will kill my python. Its easier with a dummy-xy-Basic 
to make an exe as with this shit-modern-"oh what an easy nice 
language"-Python.

Not with me.

Yeah, python is easy and nice, the pure language, but the rest...

goodby, I'am going to look for another real easy animal !


B.Schaefer




From fgeiger at datec.at  Fri Jan 26 12:44:39 2001
From: fgeiger at datec.at (Franz GEIGER)
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 18:44:39 +0100
Subject: Umlauts revisited: Now they prevent program from running
References: <94rt05$tbe$1@newsreaderg1.core.theplanet.net> <94s2mm$1h$1@newsreaderg1.core.theplanet.net> <m31ytqxswl.fsf@atrus.jesus.cam.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <94sd0j$rl9$1@newsreaderm1.core.theplanet.net>

Wow again! That's what I was lookin' for!

Lot of thanks and best regards
Franz


"Michael Hudson" <mwh21 at cam.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:m31ytqxswl.fsf at atrus.jesus.cam.ac.uk...
> "Franz GEIGER" <fgeiger at datec.at> writes:
>
> > Wow! Both of yours - Alex and Michael - did the trick! Thanks a lot!
>
> Pleasure.
>
> > Is there another trick to switch globally to this encoding? Or do I have
to
> > check for '\xyz' characters and then encode them?
>
> You can call sys.setdefaultencoding in your sitecustomize.py (you have
> to call this function right at the very start of your application so
> it's deleted in site.py).
>
> > For now I do a try. If an exception is catched I call the encode method.
>
> It would be better to call the .encode method every time.
>
> > Is this the way doing it _always_ if umlauts could come across my way?
> > That'd be cumbersome because the German language is teeming with umlauts
> > (o.k., carried it too far ;-))
>
> Probably writing yourself a sitecustomize.py is the way to go.
>
> Cheers,
> M.
>
> --
>   Just point your web browser at http://www.python.org/search/ and
>   look for "program", "doesn't", "work", or "my". Whenever you find
>   someone else whose program didn't work, don't do what they
>   did. Repeat as needed.    -- Tim Peters, on python-help, 16 Jun 1998




From tim.one at home.com  Thu Jan 25 23:12:12 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 23:12:12 -0500
Subject: I mean *setup.py* ! ... (more questions)[Re: libraries=['m'] inconfig.py [Re: Python 2.1 alpha 1 released!]]
In-Reply-To: <94p66v$e55qc$1@ID-59885.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCIEFIILAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Thomas Heller]
> Andrew and Guido seem to have zero interest in supporting
> platforms other than linux/unix.

Indeed, Python was first developed on a Mac, which should help clarify the
damning extent of Guido's Mac hatred <wink>.

i-guess-he-makes-me-work-on-the-windows-installer-because-
    he-hates-both-of-us-ly y'rs  - tim




From rturpin at my-deja.com  Mon Jan 15 09:13:56 2001
From: rturpin at my-deja.com (rturpin at my-deja.com)
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 14:13:56 GMT
Subject: Protected execution through tricks with namespace scoping
References: <mailman.979533135.26022.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <93v0iu$d64$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

In article <mailman.979533135.26022.python-list at python.org>,
  "Tim Peters" <tim.one at home.com> wrote:
> So rather than stumble into these one at a time, read the
> chapter on "Restricted Execution" in the Library Reference
> Manual. ..

Doh!

I always look there first, when having to parse yet
another communications/Web format. I don't know why
I didn't look there first, for this.

Thanks.

Russell


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From pbjorn at uswest.net  Wed Jan  3 13:20:37 2001
From: pbjorn at uswest.net (Bjorn Pettersen)
Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 11:20:37 -0700
Subject: [Zope-dev] case insensitive sorts
References: <NEBBLGACMKDPCFFIIEALIELBCKAA.andyd@nipltd.com> <3A5350B5.79BE639F@kaivo.com> <006501c075a4$5b8c46a0$ae03a8c0@fork> <3A535764.1144FA95@nipltd.com> <00eb01c075a8$24f9a570$ae03a8c0@fork> <mailman.978542343.5865.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3A536D75.B1CBD6AB@uswest.net>

Is this what you want:

>>> ' '.join( [ word.capitalize() for word in 'betty ford'.split() ])
'Betty Ford'

or did you want:

>>> lst = ['Wilbur', 'Carl', 'betty', 'Alan']
>>> lst.sort(lambda x,y: cmp(x.upper(), y.upper()))
>>> lst
['Alan', 'betty', 'Carl', 'Wilbur']

-- bjorn

Chris Withers wrote:

> Andy McKay wrote:
> >
> > Hmm im actually not so sure on that. Currently you can do a sort either way,
> > if you fix it so its only case sensitive we'll end up like Visual Basic :)
>
> Actually, I'd like to see it 'fixed' so it's only case insensitive:
>
> Alan
> betty
> Carl
> Wilbur
>
> > Fixing python is a question for the python list and I'd be scared to ask it
> > there...
>
> I'm sure I copied one of these messages to the python list for that very
> reason but it didn't get any response. Ah well, I'll copy this one there
> as well and see what happens ;-)
>
> cheers,
>
> Chris



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Thu Jan 11 04:54:22 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 10:54:22 +0100
Subject: COMMERCIAL: BlackAdder Windows/Linux Python/Qt Development  Environment
References: <3A5CBDB7.F82290B9@river-bank.demon.co.uk> <3A5CE2D6.1A954AD7@monitor.net>
Message-ID: <93jvvb0h08@news1.newsguy.com>

"Stephen R. Figgins" <fig at monitor.net> wrote in message
news:3A5CE2D6.1A954AD7 at monitor.net...
> M'lord, I have a cunning plan.....

Does it involve a turnip?


Alex





From cpsoct at my-deja.com  Mon Jan 22 06:28:51 2001
From: cpsoct at my-deja.com (cpsoct at my-deja.com)
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 11:28:51 GMT
Subject: Markov.py
References: <94eavq$5cl$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <94eulk$dduhj$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de> <3A6B7716.68A62115@home.com>
Message-ID: <94h5he$9kl$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

Thanks for the tip. However i guess what i don't understand is what
type of input it expects. A file, many files, strings (and if so
delimited, how, how parsed?), i didn't really understand all the flags
etc. To me, a dummy, this kind of thing is silly as it contains no
example and no doc string. in this case (a complex module file) an
example of input and output would go a long way to explain how this
makes a markov chain. Does it expect a table of possibilities? Where
are they set? etc. etc.... like if i write an func i usually say
briefly, what it does(ok, i know what a markov chain is), but more
importantly what it expects and barfs out at execution.

def lace(lista, listb)
    """lace: takes two lists and interlaces the list elements into a
single list

    e.g: lace([1,2,3], [a,b,c]) returns: [[1,a], [2,b], [3,c]]"""


anyway, it sounds too much like i am complaining now, so i'll shut up,
since i am getting what paid for <wink>. And note that if you think i
am imitating a very famous pythonite, you are right.

hee, hee, hee

anyway, thanks for taking the time to answer.

cheers,
kevin parks
seoul, korea


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From JoeSmith at bogusaddress.com  Thu Jan 18 21:43:55 2001
From: JoeSmith at bogusaddress.com (Joe Smith)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 02:43:55 GMT
Subject: How to run script from interpreter?
References: <mailman.979855413.16209.python-list@python.org> <t6f37pmhbtd94@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <3A67AAA7.BB761D50@bogusaddress.com>

I like to do:
if __name__ == '__main__':
    main( sys.argv[1:] )

This way I can similate everything because I can pass main whatever list of
arguments that I want.

JustinHJ wrote:

> say you have a script in a file called test.py just type
>
> import test
>
> (you don't need the .py)
>
> As for doing stuff in the script it will execute any commands it encounters.
> It's neat to have all your stuff in functions and then have commands at the
> bottom to call the functions as needed. This is like a simulated main() from
> C.
>
> if __name__ == '__main__': # only run if main program
>  DoStuff( )
>
> Rolander, Dan <Dan.Rolander at marriott.com> wrote in message
> news:mailman.979855413.16209.python-list at python.org...
> > What is the best way to run a python script from within the interpreter?
> > What command should I use?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Dan
> >



From tim.one at home.com  Fri Jan 12 03:10:05 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 03:10:05 -0500
Subject: Speed of Python vs. Perl
In-Reply-To: <Owy76.5648$Qb7.787357@newsb.telia.net>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCGEDBIIAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Tim]
> Unless you've got a broken installation, Python shouldn't be
> spending *any* time parsing imported files at startup.

[Fredrik Lundh]
> well, isn't "unmarshalling" a form of parsing?
>
> (read token, figure out what it means, update data structure, repeat
> until end of data)

Sure.  Then so is executing bytecode (read bytecode, figure out what it
means, update data structures, repeat until RETURN).  You *know* how Guido
feels about hypergeneralization <wink>.

> note that unmarshal uses lots of getc calls, and we all know what
> that means for performance...  how about changing read_compiled_module()
> from
>
>     co = PyMarshal_ReadObjectFromFile(fp);
>
> to something like:
>
>     size = getsize(fp)
>     if size could be determined, and is less than 200k:
>         buf = malloc(size)
>         fread(buf, 1, size, fp)
>         co = PyMarshal_ReadObjectFromString(buf, size)
>         free(buf)
>     else:
>         co = PyMarshal_ReadObjectFromFile(fp);

Talk someone into writing a patch; I've got no bandwidth to spare.

and-neither-do-you-or-you-would-have-already-written-it<wink>-ly
    y'rs  - tim




From tdelaney at avaya.com  Wed Jan 24 18:05:45 2001
From: tdelaney at avaya.com (Delaney, Timothy)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 10:05:45 +1100
Subject: How do I know all thrown exceptions of a function?
Message-ID: <B43D149A9AB2D411971300B0D03D7E8B0FBE26@natasha.auslabs.avaya.com>

> > Argh! From a practical viewpoint, this is the way to do it, 
> but from an
> > aesthetic viewpoint ...
> 
> Clearly, aesthetic is in the eye of the beholder!  To me, this
> seems just a special case of optional type-annotation: failing
> to annotate SHOULD mean "and I'm not providing ANY information
> about what types this thing here can be" -- both for compatibility
> with existing Python, AND because it keeps the RAD, uncluttered,
> fast-to-write-and-easy-to-read, nature of our beloved language;
> one then goes back and OPTIONALLY AND SELECTIVELY annotates "SOME
> portions to taste" with type information, including "this function
> always returns a sequence" or "this function never raises any
> exception".
> 
> Pragmatics and aesthetics are thus quite aligned here, from my
> personal viewpoint.

You are of course right ... when I seriously consider this from a python
point of view unadorned things should be "I have no information at this
time" and adorning should increase restrictions.

Tim Delaney
Avaya Australia



From Bill.Scherer at VerizonWireless.com  Fri Jan 26 12:16:08 2001
From: Bill.Scherer at VerizonWireless.com (Bill Scherer)
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 12:16:08 -0500
Subject: Newbie:Compile problems with DCOracle
References: <3A70F351.9ECF7586@emsphone.com>
Message-ID: <3A71B0D8.B3D83F81@VerizonWireless.com>

Mark

It looks like your python was not compiled with gnu readline support.
Depending on you rpython version, that would be done by removing a
comment from Modules/Setup (pre 1.5.2 I think) or by passing
--with-readline to configure.



Mark Rivera wrote:
> 
> I'm trying to compile the DCOracle Python Interface and I'm having the
> following problem.
> I do the make -f Makefile.pre.in boot PYTHON=python and it begins to
> compile when I get the following message:
> /usr/local/lib/python2.0/config/makesetup \
>          -m Makefile.pre -c /usr/local/lib/python2.0/config/config.c.in
> Setup -n  /usr/local/lib/python2.0/config/Setup
> make -f Makefile do-it-again
> make[2]: Entering directory `/home/username/oracle/DCOracle-1.3.2/src'
> /usr/local/lib/python2.0/config/makesetup \
>          -m Makefile.pre -c /usr/local/lib/python2.0/config/config.c.in
> Setup -n  /usr/local/lib/python2.0/config/Setup
> make[2]: Leaving directory `/home/mrivera/oracle/DCOracle-1.3.2/src'
> make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/mrivera/oracle/DCOracle-1.3.2/src'
> 
> I then type in make and I get the following error:
> make: *** No rule to make target `readline.c', needed by `readline.o'.
> Stop.
> 
> I'm trying to install this on a red hat linux 6.0 machine with python2.0
> running Oracle 8.0.5.
> Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
> Thanks in advance.
> 
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

-- 
William K. Scherer
Sr. Member of Applications Staff - Verizon Wireless
Bill.Scherer_at_VerizonWireless.com



From amk at mira.erols.com  Wed Jan 24 22:12:39 2001
From: amk at mira.erols.com (A.M. Kuchling)
Date: 25 Jan 2001 03:12:39 GMT
Subject: SourceForge problems
References: <mailman.980326169.14833.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrn96v77e.i9.amk@mira.erols.com>

On Wed, 24 Jan 2001 03:48:43 -0500, Tim Peters <tim.one at home.com> wrote:
>According to http://sourceforge.net/ today,
>    Hosted Projects:   14,366
>    Registered Users: 110,619

Oof!  When I was fiddling with patches tonight, the registered users
number was exactly 111,000.  400 new users a day isn't too shabby...

--amk



From hamish_lawson at yahoo.co.uk  Fri Jan 26 19:21:52 2001
From: hamish_lawson at yahoo.co.uk (Hamish Lawson)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 00:21:52 GMT
Subject: Use Python instead of Perl's GifGraph?
References: <94sneo$507$1@sshuraaa-i-1.production.compuserve.com>
Message-ID: <94t4ao$ood$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

rscobee at pbsj.com wrote:

> So I was just wandering if there are any libraries similar
> to GIFGraph already in Python

GDChart is probably your best best:

http://athani.pair.com/msteed/software/gdchart/index.html

If you intend to use it under Windows (which I'm guessing from your
mention of NT and VB), then you get a precompiled* binary (Python 2.0)
with GIF, JPEG and PNG support included at:

http://athani.pair.com/msteed/software/gdchart/gdchart-py-w32bin-0.5.zip

* Core parts are written in C.

Other packages to look at may be Graphite and PILGraph, but they seem
to be less mature. You can find details of these at the Vaults of
Parnassus, the main directory of Python software:

http://www.vex.net/parnassus/


Hamish Lawson


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From gregj at pobox.com  Wed Jan 10 14:30:21 2001
From: gregj at pobox.com (Greg Jorgensen)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 19:30:21 GMT
Subject: Reading Microsoft Outlook Express .dbx files
References: <h7_66.8949$X3.91000@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <hL276.250187$U46.7939384@news1.sttls1.wa.home.com>

"Steve Holden" <sholden at holdenweb.com> wrote in message
news:h7_66.8949$X3.91000 at e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com...
> In my trek through the various mail packages the Windoze user may be
> confronted with I am currently battling with Outlook Express.  It's
actually
> rather better than I feared.
>
> Its native folder format appears to be a ".dbx" file, about which I have
no
> information.  Does any reader have experience with either reading these
> files, or automating OEx to provide them to a Python program in
RFC822-style
> formats?

I think the .dbx format is documented somewhere on MSDN. A few months ago I
was trying to save an Outlook Express mailbox as separate messages, and
after digging around with Google and DejaNews I found a couple of free tools
that did just that. They weren't very stable, though: one didn't seem to
work at all, and the other stopped processing messages halfway through the
mailbox. In the source code of one of them (I can't remember names, sorry)
the .dbx format was obvious. There's also a C library for Unix out there
that reads .dbx files, but I didn't play with that.

In the end I did the slacker thing: I used Outlook (not Express) to import
the .dbx file. Outlook can save a bunch of selected messages as individual
text files, which is what I wanted.

--
Greg Jorgensen
PDXperts
Portland, Oregon, USA
gregj at pobox.com




From k1e2i3t4h5r6a7y at 1m2a3c4.5c6o7m  Tue Jan 16 23:04:46 2001
From: k1e2i3t4h5r6a7y at 1m2a3c4.5c6o7m (Keith Ray)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 04:04:46 GMT
Subject: Calling Java Code from CPython (1.5.2 or 2.0)
References: <93mdfs$g7q$1@nyheter.chalmers.se>
Message-ID: <k1e2i3t4h5r6a7y-D29C0F.20044016012001@news>

In article <93mdfs$g7q$1 at nyheter.chalmers.se>, "Dario Lopez-K?sten" 
<dario at _no_spam_.ita.chalmers.se> wrote:

> Hello!
> 
> <newbie class="clueless">
> 
> I would like to know if it is possible to call Java Code from CPython (as 
> in
> not Jython or JPython). I am asking this, because i'd like to be able to
> experiment using JDBC in conjunction with python; specifically, I want to
> use Zope and JDBC drivers on Solaris/Linux and that "other" operating 
> system
> to connect to Oracle, MIMER and some other DBMSs we have.
[...]

I suppose one could wrap the JNI functions with CPython module...

I could also imagine a CPython module using JNI functions and Java 
reflection to do a more general-purpose bridge for python. Create python 
objects that are bridges to java objects. Forwarding python method calls 
to the java objects, converting basic CPython types into Java 
equivalents for argument passing...

Then to be able to pass python objects into java methods, you'd want the 
bridge to also go the other way, this is a little fuzzier in my 
imagination... perhaps by using instances of a java wrapper object that 
makes calls via JNI to the Python reflection API...?

Making inheritance work on both sides seems like the real kicker... 
might require generating java and source code and compiling it.

I bet it wouldn't take more than 2 or 3 person-years (for someone more 
motivated than I) to complete.   :-)

I would be interested to know if someone has already done this.

-- 
       <http://homepage.mac.com/keithray/resume.html>


From andreas at andreas-jung.com  Mon Jan 15 06:33:55 2001
From: andreas at andreas-jung.com (Andreas Jung)
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 12:33:55 +0100
Subject: ALARM on windows?
In-Reply-To: <93ukvl$cdp$1@news0.skynet.be>; from ckalista@realproject.be on Mon, Jan 15, 2001 at 11:54:38AM +0100
References: <93ukvl$cdp$1@news0.skynet.be>
Message-ID: <20010115123355.B2641@yetix.sz-sb.de>

On Mon, Jan 15, 2001 at 11:54:38AM +0100, Kalista Christophe wrote:
> I'm having trouble handling SIGALRM under windows!
> 
> I'd like to do the following : A python script listens to port 6664(for
> example). When it gets a connection, it then sets an alarm handler and then
> tries to read from the socket. If it does not get data within 10 seconds, it
> then times out, at which point the alarm handler throws an axception and
> aborts the socket read.
> 
> The problem is that I don't know how to handle signals under WINDOWS.

SIGALRM is not available in the signal module under Windows. In Python 2.0
there is asyncore module available (asynchronous socket handler). I imagine
that this will help to solve your problem.

Andreas
 



From db3l at fitlinxx.com  Tue Jan  2 18:05:05 2001
From: db3l at fitlinxx.com (David Bolen)
Date: 02 Jan 2001 18:05:05 -0500
Subject: Newbie question ... reading modules from directories in Windows
References: <5Md36.46251$59.13170408@news3.rdc1.on.home.com>
Message-ID: <uvgrxa732.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com>

"Peder Jakobsen" <jakobsen at home.com> writes:

> Just a small question:
> 
> I have added a "C:\Python20\sandbox" directory to my PYTHONPATH
> 
> Now I'm trying to import modules from that directory whole using the
> interactive Python prompt, but it only works if I start python.exe in the
> directory where the module resides.

It should work fine with the PYTHONPATH setting, but are you positive
that you modified the environment variable in the same session that
you are running python.exe in?

As a simple test, start a command prompt, issue the "SET
PYTHONPATH=xxx" command manually and then run python.  It should work.

Another way to check is that after starting Python interactively,
import sys and then print sys.path - it should include your directory.
You can also import os and use "os.environ['PYTHONPATH']" to see the
exact environment variable that is active in your current session.

Depending on your Windows variant and how you make the change, you may
need to ensure that your python session is started after you make the
change, or you may need to ensure you "apply" the change from the
environment window - I'm not sure if Win95 might need a reboot or not.

--
-- David
-- 
/-----------------------------------------------------------------------\
 \               David Bolen            \   E-mail: db3l at fitlinxx.com  /
  |             FitLinxx, Inc.            \  Phone: (203) 708-5192    |
 /  860 Canal Street, Stamford, CT  06902   \  Fax: (203) 316-5150     \
\-----------------------------------------------------------------------/


From ssthapa at harper.uchicago.edu  Tue Jan 16 17:52:06 2001
From: ssthapa at harper.uchicago.edu (ssthapa at harper.uchicago.edu)
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 22:52:06 GMT
Subject: is Python fully object oriented ?
References: <mailman.979520476.17175.python-list@python.org> <93upsj$k0a$1@newshost.accu.uu.nl>
Message-ID: <slrn96939p.2hn.ssthapa@ntcs-ip45.uchicago.edu>

Martijn Faassen <m.faassen at vet.uu.nl> wrote:
>Delaney, Timothy <tdelaney at avaya.com> wrote:
>[snip me describing how object attributes can be copied into local
> variables]
>> Ooh - dangerous in a multithreaded app ... ;)
>
>I have little experience programming multithreaded apps, but find it
>hard to believe that avoiding this techniques makes all the danger go
>away without the need for special attention anyway. Could you elaborate?

    Your code read and made a copy of an instance variable, did stuff
with it and then updated it.  The problem is that without adding a mutex
to serialize reads and writes to the variable you could have a case where the
same instance has the method called twice by different threads. E.g

thread 1:		thread 2:
calls method		...
copies instance var	calls method
...			copies instance var
does stuff with var	does stuff with var
updates instance var	...
exits method		updates var
...			exits method

The end result in this case is that thread 1's update of the instance variable
gets overwritten by thread 2.  This can happen in other permutations with the
net result that the code may work fine, or it may break and this breakage can
depend on the timing of the threads causing you to go insane while debugging
the program.  :(  The typical solution is to prevent any other threads from
reading or writing the variable while the method is running using a mutex. 

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------
			    |
Suchandra Thapa             | "There are only two kinds of math books. 
s-thapaNO at SPAMuchicago.edu  | Those you cannot read beyond the first 
			    | sentence, and those you cannot read 
			    | beyond the first page."
			    |                       -C.N. Yang
------------------------------------------------------------------


From tim.one at home.com  Tue Jan 30 20:38:50 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 20:38:50 -0500
Subject: Sets in Python
In-Reply-To: <957erd$c4v$1@tyfon.itea.ntnu.no>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCCEFAIMAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Magnus Lie Hetland]
> Does that mean "maybe not" any of the features mentioned? Or only
> the ones in brackets?

Rather than make everyone suffer Quoting Hell, I left out the interesting
part <wink>.  The answer is that neither

    if x in dict:

nor

    for x in dict:

will be in 2.1.  There were too many arguments about it, so it got
reassigned to PEP Limbo (BTW, nobody yet has volunteered to own a PEP for
this).

Note Greg Wilson's PEP for adding a set type to Python:

    http://python.sourceforge.net/peps/pep-0218.html

Note that 2.1 does introduce a new dict.popitem() method, which selects,
returns, *and removes* an arbitrary (key, value) pair from the dict.  It
generally runs in O(1) time, and always O(1) space, and is crucial for
getting "the right" overall O() behavior for algorithms of the form:

    while dict:
        e = pick some element from dict
        del dict[e]
        muck around with e, possibly adding more stuff to dict

It wasn't possible to code such a loop to run in better than quadratic time
prior to 2.1 ("pick some element" couldn't do better than materialize all of
dict.keys(), unless you kept additional data structures in synch with the
dict).




From moshez at zadka.site.co.il  Sat Jan 13 09:37:15 2001
From: moshez at zadka.site.co.il (Moshe Zadka)
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 16:37:15 +0200 (IST)
Subject: is Python fully object oriented ?
In-Reply-To: <3A5EA074.D5AF4A98@intelligenesis.net>
References: <3A5EA074.D5AF4A98@intelligenesis.net>, <20010110184830.13286.00000826@ng-fg1.aol.com> <3A5E5C21.3E036BFE@intelligenesis.net> <3A5E935D.CF641658@dcube-resource.be>
Message-ID: <20010113143715.B88E2A828@darjeeling.zadka.site.co.il>

On Fri, 12 Jan 2001, Ben Hutchison <benh at intelligenesis.net> wrote:

[About self. vs. implicit this]
> I'd like to see some primary evidence of this "design choice" process, 
> describing  the motivating reasons. Presumably there are some web references 
> somewhere. My instinct tell me it resembles an implementation consequence, 
> rather than a free and deliberate choice.

Other then the "explicit is better then implicit", other Python design 
principles are:

* If the implementation is hard to explain, it's a bad idea
* If the implementation is easy to explain, it may be a good idea

I'm not sure whether that strenghens your argument, weakens it
or nullifies it, though. <wink>

-- 
Moshe Zadka <sig at zadka.site.co.il>
This is a signature anti-virus. 
Please stop the spread of signature viruses!



From barry at digicool.com  Wed Jan 24 14:27:36 2001
From: barry at digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 14:27:36 -0500
Subject: python-2.1 function attributes
References: <ul3snm8dfae.fsf@smaug.fsl.noaa.gov>
	<m3n1cgzvpj.fsf@atrus.jesus.cam.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <14959.11432.214338.342857@anthem.wooz.org>

>>>>> "MH" == Michael Hudson <mwh21 at cam.ac.uk> writes:

    MH> I suspect if you can come up with a decent syntax, it will go
    MH> in.  I can't though.  Any ideas?

That's definitely been the problem so far.  Function attribute tend to
be very useful even without the syntax, but I think many people agree
that an inline syntax a la docstrings would make the feature even more
useful.  So far, no one's come up with an acceptable syntax.  My
inclination would be to open a new PEP for just the syntax proposal,
referencing PEP 232 for the underlying implementation and access
rules.

-Barry



From fredrik at effbot.org  Sun Jan 14 11:36:41 2001
From: fredrik at effbot.org (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 16:36:41 GMT
Subject: why is a negative shift value illegal?
References: <mailman.979455916.32613.python-list@python.org> <wpk86.44668$ge4.17255421@news2.rdc2.tx.home.com>
Message-ID: <tAk86.6533$AH6.975167@newsc.telia.net>

Rainer Deyke wrote:
> Right now this fails if red_length is greater than 8.  Fixing this is
> possible, but messy:
>
> red_right_shift = red_postion + red_length - 8
> if red_right_shift < 0:
>   red_left_shift = -red_right_shift
>   red_right_shift = 0
> else:
>   red_left_shift = 0
>
> red = ((color & red_mask) >> red_right_shift) << red_left_shift

    red_shift = red_position + red_length - 8
    red = myshift(color & red_mask, red_shift)

Cheers /F




From zGligic at cgocable.net  Fri Jan  5 04:05:25 2001
From: zGligic at cgocable.net (Frank Z. Gligic)
Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 09:05:25 GMT
Subject: Embedding Python
Message-ID: <p7g56.219417$_5.49907042@news4.rdc1.on.home.com>

Folks,

If one had a 4GL programming language (written in C/C++) that compiles to
its own proprietary byte code, could it be extended by embedding Python into
it ?

If possible, then how close would one come to being able to write 'programs'
that were made up of both sets of syntax and how would you indicate which is
which ?

Regards,
Frank





From tjg at exceptionalminds.com  Mon Jan 29 14:45:22 2001
From: tjg at exceptionalminds.com (Timothy Grant)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 11:45:22 -0800
Subject: Incremental searching in Pmw ComboBox.
Message-ID: <20010129114522.N24247@trufflehunter.avalongroup.net>

I have an app where it would be nice to do an incremental search through the
contents of a Pmw.ComboBox.

Has anyone implemented such a beast? Or can anyone point me in the right
general direction for implementing such a thing?

Thanks.

-- 
Stand Fast,
    tjg.

Timothy Grant                         tjg at exceptionalminds.com
Red Hat Certified Engineer            www.exceptionalminds.com
Avalon Technology Group, Inc.                   (503) 246-3630
>>>>>>>>>>>>>Linux, because rebooting is *NOT* normal<<<<<<<<<
>>>>This machine was last rebooted:  12 days 23:56 hours ago<<



From scarblac at pino.selwerd.nl  Tue Jan  2 09:49:45 2001
From: scarblac at pino.selwerd.nl (Remco Gerlich)
Date: 2 Jan 2001 14:49:45 GMT
Subject: using 'global' across source files.
References: <3A51CC63.A90A0E0B@sara.nl> <slrn953nf2.pcr.scarblac@pino.selwerd.nl> <3A51E27C.AF8F70B8@sara.nl> <slrn953ok1.pcr.scarblac@pino.selwerd.nl> <3A51E6B7.82FFE8F4@sara.nl>
Message-ID: <slrn953qe5.pcr.scarblac@pino.selwerd.nl>

Bram Stolk <bram at sara.nl> wrote in comp.lang.python:
> Remco Gerlich wrote:
> > 
> > Bram Stolk <bram at sara.nl> wrote in comp.lang.python:
> > >
> > > # funcs.py
> > >
> > > def change_val() :
> > >   global val
> > >   val = val * 2
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > # prog.py
> > >
> > > val = 100
> > >
> > > import funcs
> > >
> > >
> > > funcs.change_val()
> > > print val
> > 
> > You need "print funcs.val" now (just like you call the function with
> > "funcs.change_val()).
> 
> Huh??
> Mind you, 'val' is defined in prog.py, NOT funcs.py.
> That's the whole issue I'm trying to solve.

Argh, I got confused too. Currently you have a 'val' in both modules
but they're different variables.
 
> I'm pretty confused now.
> Anyway, 'print funcs.val' does not work either, 
> besides the error happens BEFORE the print cmd, it
> happens in the function change_val(), which cannot 
> find the 'val' variable from prog.py.

No. Right. 'val' should exist in one module only. If you want it to be in
prog.py, funcs.py must import prog, access the variable there, and the code
would look like this:

# funcs.py

def change_val():
   import prog
   prog.val = prog.val * 2

# prog.py

val=100
import funcs

funcs.change_val()
print val

And the other way around it would look like this:

# funcs.py

def change_val():
   global val
   val = val*2
   
# prog.py

import funcs
funcs.val = 100

funcs.change_val()

print funcs.val

> Nor can it find it, if I prefix it as '__main__.val'.

But

import sys
print sys.modules['__main__'].val

works ('__main__' is a string, not a module, you have to look it up first).
But this is a bit awkward.


> Well, that's my whole problem.
> How do I refer to 'val' if it is in another *unnamed* module?
> According to the manuals, it should simply be in the namespace
> '__main__', but that doesnt work either.

See above. But using globals that are shared across modules is a bit
icky anyway. Why does a named module (funcs) need to access a global in
some module that it knows nothing about? Is there a reason you need to do
this?

-- 
Remco Gerlich


From mlh at idi.ntnu.no  Sat Jan 27 19:03:00 2001
From: mlh at idi.ntnu.no (Magnus Lie Hetland)
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 01:03:00 +0100
Subject: unpack sequence to tuple?
References: <94j6j1$3na$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <94vnot$5ke$1@snipp.uninett.no>

<noahspurrier at my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:94j6j1$3na$1 at nnrp1.deja.com...
> I want to easily read arguments in a sequence into separate variables.
> Basically, I want to use a Per1 idiom and do this:
>
>     (cmd, host, user, key) = tuple(sys.argv)
[...]
> This is not a big deal. It's certainly not unclear to simply read
> each element, but I was hoping that there might be something short
> and neat that would already do this:
>     host = sys.argv[1]
>     user = sys.argv[2]
>     key = sys.argv[3]

Here you would (of course) also get an exception if sys.argv didn't
contain all the elements you were after (i.e. no None-padding)...

A standard thing in many programs is to check if the number of
required args are available:

if len(sys.argv) == 4:
    cmd, host, user, key = sys.argv
else:
    print >> sys.stderr, "usage: foobar <host> <user> <key>
    sys.exit(1)

That's how I would do it, at least.

And if you allow more arguments, you can simply do this:

if len(sys.argv >= 4:
    host, user, key = sys.argv[1:4]
else:
    print >> sys.stderr, "usage: foobar <host> <user> <key> [<spam> ...]"
    sys.exit(1)


Here I have also excluded cmd (which can, of course, be done in the
first as well), since you don't seem to want that.

>
> Yours,
> Noah

--

  Magnus Lie Hetland      (magnus at hetland dot org)

 "Reality is what refuses to disappear when you stop
  believing in it"                 -- Philip K. Dick





From cfelling at iae.nl  Tue Jan 23 18:49:02 2001
From: cfelling at iae.nl (Carel Fellinger)
Date: 24 Jan 2001 00:49:02 +0100
Subject: Markov.py
References: <94eavq$5cl$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <94eulk$dduhj$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de> <3A6B7716.68A62115@home.com> <94h5he$9kl$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <94ides$6t2$1@animus.fel.iae.nl> <94jrt701eg4@news1.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <94l59e$4kc$1@animus.fel.iae.nl>

Alex Martelli <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote:
> "Carel Fellinger" <cfelling at iae.nl> wrote in message
> news:94ides$6t2$1 at animus.fel.iae.nl...
>     [snip]
>> well I don't, so please enlighten me: what's a markov chain?

> A somewhat complex (but complete, correct, concise) definition
> can be found at http://pespmc1.vub.ac.be/ASC/MARKOV_CHAIN.html.

just stumbled on this the other day when I finally `googled' for
Markov chain.  Thanks for the other links, nice reading:)

...
> I have a tender spot in my heart for HMM's ever since using
> them in the early '80s for speech recognition and natural
> language modeling... they give you all that 'neural networks'
> are supposed to, with a very solid and mature mathematical basis
> ["everything is an application of Bayes' Theorem"!-)] and, as
> a result, lots of confidence in the results you're getting!

Funny, in those days I was more into Montague Grammers and Natural
Language Machine Translation (mainly on the implementation side of a
very formal approach under the guidance of Jan Landsbergen).  We used
to look with dedain to people using stochastic models in the field:)

-- 
groetjes, carel


From sheila at spamcop.net  Sat Jan 27 14:00:54 2001
From: sheila at spamcop.net (Sheila King)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 19:00:54 GMT
Subject: Parsing an mbox mail file
References: <20g47ts24jd075hhv7bf22fadqs0km3ff3@4ax.com> <mailman.980600491.8027.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1d667ts5c5jv49k63il4qon73njr16ta08@4ax.com>

Oleg,

Thanks for your reply.

Someone suggested to me, in e-mail, taking a look at the code for the mailbox
module, to see how the module handles finding the next message. I see that it
is very similar to what you are doing, with the "seek" and "tell" and other
such file operations.

I will study this further. For the meantime, I've "solved" my problem, by not
saving the messages in exactly UnixMailbox format. I've put a message
seperator of '========\n' right before the header of each message. This means,
I can no longer use the mailbox module, so I'm back to the rfc822 module.

Here is a simplified version of my current code:

-----------------------------------------------------
import rfc822

def readToMessageSeparator(infile):
	lines =[]
	while(1):
		newline = infile.readline()
		if not newline:
			return lines
		if (newline != '========\n'):
			lines +=[newline]
		else:
			return lines

###########################
### Main Program Begins ###
###########################

infile = open("spam4.txt", "r")
discard = readToMessageSeparator(infile)

## retrieve each message
while (1):
	header = rfc822.Message(infile)
	if not header:
		break
	headerString = ''.join(header.headers)
	body = ''.join(readToMessageSeparator(infile))
	currentmessage = headerString + '\n' + body
	print currentmessage
-----------------------------------------------------

--
Sheila King
http://www.thinkspot.net/sheila/
http://www.k12groups.org/

On Sat, 27 Jan 2001 15:58:21 +0300 (MSK), Oleg Broytmann <phd at phd.pp.ru> wrote
in comp.lang.python in article
<mailman.980600491.8027.python-list at python.org>:

:On Sat, 27 Jan 2001, Sheila King wrote:
:> If I use the mailbox module, and use mailboxInstance.next(), it will skip
:> right over the message body to the next message's header. The whole reason I'm
:> wanting to use the mailbox module, is so that I can easily get to the next
:> message in the file, and get it's headers. So, I definitely want to use the
:> "next()" command. How can I read the message body in between calls to next?
:
:#! /usr/local/bin/python -O
:
:
:import sys, os
:infile = open(sys.argv[1], 'r')
:
:from mailbox import UnixMailbox
:mbox = UnixMailbox(infile)
:
:n = 1
:while 1:
:   pos = infile.tell()
:   from_ = infile.readline() # UnixMailbox ate the field From_ - but I want to preserve it
:   infile.seek(pos)
:
:   msg = mbox.next()
:   if msg is None: break
:
:   sys.stdout.write("%sProcessing message N%d" % (chr(13), n))
:   sys.stdout.flush()
:   n = n + 1
:
:   fp = msg.fp
:   fp.seek(0) # to the very beginning
:
:   outfile = open("_tmp", 'w')
:   outfile.write(from_)
:   outfile.write(fp.read()) # write the entire body at once
:   outfile.close()
:
:   os.system("%s _tmp >>error.log 2>&1" % sys.argv[2])
:
:infile.close()
:print
:os.remove("_tmp")
:
:Oleg.
:----
:     Oleg Broytmann            http://phd.pp.ru/            phd at phd.pp.ru
:           Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN.
:



From freydaddy at kricket.net  Fri Jan 12 19:06:25 2001
From: freydaddy at kricket.net (Matt Frey)
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 18:06:25 -0600
Subject: newbie...
Message-ID: <QZM76.20111$n5.335569@news6.giganews.com>

Where is a good place to learn python?




From matt at mondoinfo.com  Sat Jan 13 13:44:32 2001
From: matt at mondoinfo.com (Matthew Dixon Cowles)
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 18:44:32 GMT
Subject: No meta-type in Python?
References: <93q4og$ppg$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <slrn9618gg.q8.matt@happy-hour.mondoinfo.com>

On Sat, 13 Jan 2001 17:54:26 GMT, Chris Ryland <cpr at emsoftware.com>
wrote:

>Just out of curiousity, why is there no <type 'type'> in Python?

But there is.

>I.e., I'd expect type(Ellipsis) to be <type 'type'> rather than <type
>'ellipsis'>.

Since Ellipsis is a built-in object, its type is <type 'ellipsis'>
just as type(1) is <type 'int'>. But the type of both of those types
is what you expect:

>>> type(type(Ellipsis))
<type 'type'>

Regards,
Matt


From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Wed Jan 10 07:38:22 2001
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 12:38:22 +0000
Subject: mxTools (was Re: why no "do : until"?)
References: <Iw5jLKALa0W6Ewjq@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
 <Pine.LNX.4.30.0101092015010.5204-100000@fep132.fep.ru>
 <mailman.979066090.17094.python-list@python.org>
 <slrn95nml8.ij.amk@207-172-69-8.s262.tnt8.brd.va.dialup.rcn.com>
 <93hg4a0144i@news2.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <LRFzDVA+eFX6Ew4t@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>

In article <93hg4a0144i at news2.newsguy.com>, Alex Martelli
<aleaxit at yahoo.com> writes
>"A.M. Kuchling" <amk at mira.erols.com> wrote in message
>news:slrn95nml8.ij.amk at 207-172-69-8.s262.tnt8.brd.va.dialup.rcn.com...
>> >There are a potentially infinite number of types/classes/modules which
>> >can be considered as essential if they are required for consistency in
>> >more than one other module.
>>
>> In addition, many modules release new revisions much faster than
>> Python does.  For example, I consider adding the XML parsing modules
>> to 2.0 to now have been demonstrated to be a serious mistake; there
>
>Nolo contendere on either the general contention or the specific
>case of XML -- thus, prudence is well warranted; modules should
>not be added unless (among other things) proved solid & stable.
>
>But doesn't mxDateTime meet this important requirement, as well
>as the one about general foundational importance?
>
>
>Alex
I point out that there are several competing binary time formats
including the fairly ludicrous M$/Lotus 1900 is a leap year one. None of
the 64bit ones has a hope of surviving too long in a world where
nano/pico seconds are becoming important.

Presumably in Astronomical circles people do actually take account of
the leap seconds that real time keepers periodically intercalate. I hear
that Astronomers like Python, so are there any real timekeeper
preferences out there and what do they think?
-- 
Robin Becker


From steve at spvi.com  Fri Jan 26 07:29:54 2001
From: steve at spvi.com (Steve Spicklemire)
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 07:29:54 -0500 (EST)
Subject: proxy server
In-Reply-To: <3A714C40.D3E0D684@aon.at> (message from Oliver Vecernik on Fri,
	26 Jan 2001 11:06:56 +0100)
References: <3A714C40.D3E0D684@aon.at>
Message-ID: <200101261229.f0QCTsr11168@mercury.spvi.com>

Sorry.. more context...

http://www.zope.org/Members/hathawsh/tcpwatch/tcpwatch-0.9.tar.gz

-steve


>>>>> "Oliver" == Oliver Vecernik <vecernik at aon.at> writes:

    Oliver> Hi all,

    Oliver> has anybody ever written a small proxy server in python
    Oliver> for logging http protocol between client and server? I
    Oliver> need it for debugging a http client development for an
    Oliver> embedded system.

    Oliver> Oliver --
    Oliver> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list




From sholden at holdenweb.com  Thu Jan 11 11:50:40 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 11:50:40 -0500
Subject: Defining a new exception with multiple args
References: <gnir5t80r7asgcp36jtssum2mspk5i5h4d@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <6xl76.757$mD5.9904@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com>

"Daniel Klein" <danielk at aracnet.com> wrote in message
news:gnir5t80r7asgcp36jtssum2mspk5i5h4d at 4ax.com...
> Using the Beazley book as a guide, I have defined a new exception as:
>
> class RecordNotFoundException(Exception):
>     def __init__(self, filename, recordid):
>         self.filename = filename
>         self.recordid = recordid
>
Perfectly sound exception definition. However, some defaults would not be
bad:

class RecordNotFoundException(Exception):
    def __init__(self, filename="Unknown file", recordid="unknown"):
        self.filename = filename
        self.recordid = recordid

> However, this is what happens when I raise this exception:
>
> >>> raise RecordNotFoundException("myfile", "myid")
> Traceback (innermost last):
>   File "<pyshell#40>", line 1, in ?
>     raise RecordNotFoundException("myfile", "myid")
> RecordNotFoundException: <unprintable instance object>
>
Well, what's wrong with this? You asked the interpreter to raise an
exception, it raised it, trapped it (as no handler was established by a
suitable try ... except) and reported on it.

> >>> raise RecordNotFoundException, ("myfile", "myid")
>
> produces the same result.

>
> I also tried defining the exception with
>
> import exception
> class RecordNotFoundException(exception.Exception):
>
> Why is it showing '<unprintable instance object>' instead of the arguments
I
> passed?
>
Because it can't print instance objects?

> Thanks for any assistence,
> Daniel Klein
>
Instead of just raising the exception, raise it in a way which allows you to
trap it. In a try ... except, the except can take just an exception (or, I
believe, a tuple of acceptable exceptions) or it can also take a name, which
will be bound to the exception raised. You can then use this name to access
the exception object and get at its insides:

>>> try:
...  raise RecordNotFoundException, ("file", "record")
... except RecordNotFoundException, x:
...  print "File:", x.filename, "record:", x.recordid
...
File: file record: record
>>> try:
...  raise RecordNotFoundException("file", "record")
... except RecordNotFoundException, x:
...  print "File:", x.filename, "record:", x.recordid
...
File: file record: record

Does this help?

regards
 Steve





From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sat Jan 13 12:28:45 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 18:28:45 +0100
Subject: Strange variable scope... is this right?
References: <gcqp39.jkk.ln@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <93q3gk01rs8@news1.newsguy.com>

<gradha at iname.com> wrote in message news:gcqp39.jkk.ln at 127.0.0.1...
    [snip]
> In another attempt to DTW (Dominate The World), I wrote an obfuscated loop
> just to see the scope behaviour of Python:
>
> f = ["row", "cow", "arrow"]
> for f in f:
>     print f
>     for f in range (len (f)):
>         print f
    [snip]
> AFAICS, python will create a different variable scope at both for's,
> hence the possibility to reuse the variable name f, since it means a
> different thing at each scope, being unavailable from outside it's scope.
>
> Is this a correct deduction? Is this related with the need to declare in

Not really.  When you do 'for f in f:', the expression after the 'in' is
evaluated and a reference to it is taken, then the variable between
'for' and 'in' is bound successively to the various items in said
(sequence) expression; there is no scope change, so, the first time
'f' is re-bound, it's not bound any more to the sequence.

Try this simple test:

f = ["row", "cow", "arrow"]
for f in f:
    print f
    if f=='cow': break
print f

and you'll see

row
cow
cow

i.e., 'f' stays bound to whatever it was last bound to in the loop,
after the loop itself is over.

In Python, 'scope' is defined by a module, function (including a
lambda), or class; a statement such as 'for' does not define another
scope.  What you're seeing, rather, is that, in an assignment or
equivalent (and 'for' is like a sequence of assignments, one after
the other), the right-hand side is evaluated (and a reference
bound to it) _before_ re-binding take place -- the same kind of
nicety that lets you write, e.g.:

    a, b = b, a

(both b and a on the RHS are evaluated first, the resulting
temporary unnamed tuple has references to the objects b
and a were bound for, then a and b are re-bound via the
references in the tuple -- all in all, a 'swap' takes place).


Alex






From peter at engcorp.com  Sun Jan 28 02:49:06 2001
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 02:49:06 -0500
Subject: [Off topic] allowed to put Python material on the Web?
References: <3a730931.31998180@news.skynet.be> <mf867t0go4en09o0of5r5johp8abgqvg2q@4ax.com> <3A73940E.2637C648@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <3A73CEF2.8064155E@engcorp.com>

Erik Max Francis wrote:
> 
> Sheila King wrote:
> 
> > Technically, once the messages are posted to Usenet, anyone can
> > archive and
> > copy them.
>         ...
> > Authors of Usenet posts still retain copyright to
> > their own
> > material.
> 
> These two statements are inconsistent with one another.  (The latter is
> the one that is correct, by the way.)

This is Usenet!  I dare anyone to sue me for having their
postings cached on my hard drive (archived _and_ copied!).
Dang, maybe I should sue all of _you_, for having had the gall
to post those messages and consume all my valuable hard
drive space.  Who gave you permission, anyway?  :-)

I seriously doubt anyone posting code snippets in Usenet 
retains much practical right not to have their snippets
spread throughout the world, and possibly make it
into a book somewhere.  Yes, legally, perhaps, this
would violate some aspect of the law, but I strongly 
doubt the argument would ever win in court.  

You'd probably have to demonstrate that you seriously
believed everybody else realized you didn't want them
to reuse your publicly posted material, even though
you posted it _voluntarily_ in direct response to 
their inquiry, and then show that you actually 
suffered as a result.  (Don't bother posting about
what the "law" might say about this -- it's *never*
been to court on this topic and a case probably
wouldn't last ten minutes without being tossed.)

IANAL-ly-yr's


From robin at alldunn.com  Thu Jan 25 01:16:20 2001
From: robin at alldunn.com (Robin Dunn)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 22:16:20 -0800
Subject: what GUI, please advise
References: <3A6F18F2.536F27FE@crepido.com> <3A6F0B27.A88D11C9@crepido.com> <756399CF731B46D9.57530C0D0C9C2171.472E737DF76189F7@lp.airnews.net> <mailman.980360668.7701.python-list@python.org> <7DA74694B63ED42A.83CB11913E3910C5.C8BE5B392AC1AC5C@lp.airnews.net> <mailman.980378246.26304.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <kyPb6.208$4vh.35651883@news.randori.com>

"D-Man" <dsh8290 at rit.edu> wrote in message news:mailman.980378246.26304.python-list at python.org...
> 
> (steering the discussion in my direction ...)
> 
> What is the general feeling of GTK+ vs. wxWindows?
> 

Usually the best thing to do is to try them both.  Take the time to develop similar apps with both, then you'll get a good feel for what's best for you.

--
Robin Dunn
Software Craftsman
robin at AllDunn.com       Java give you jitters?
http://wxPython.org      Relax with wxPython!




From teep at inet.co.th  Sun Jan 28 22:25:45 2001
From: teep at inet.co.th (Prateep Siamwalla)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 10:25:45 +0700
Subject: Does anyone have python on Win98???
References: <XY1d6.9583$KP3.3117045@news3.rdc1.on.home.com>
Message-ID: <952nmn$ndh$1@news.inet.co.th>

There are a couple of ways to running a python script from the command line.
I'll show you the
two i'm most familiar with.

the first way is simply write your python script as a series of statements.

try1.py
::::::::::::::::::::::::
myFile = open(r'c:\tmp\trythisout.txt','w')
myFile.write("Hello World\n")
myFile.close()
print "Finished!!"
::::::::::::::::::::::::
then on your command line type:
python try1.py

["python" needs to be in your path]
i just added this one line into my  c:\autoexec.bat
SET PATH=C:\PYTHON20
(yours seem to be c:\Programming\Python2 -- you might have to do that funny
dos formatting with the name c:\progra~2 or something. After you edit your
autoexec.bat, you'll need to restart the machine.)

the second way is to write your python script as a series of definitions and
include a "if __name__=="__main__" condition at the end

try2.py
:::::::::::::::::::::::
def myFunction(filename):
    myFile = open(filename,'w')
    myFile.write("Hello World\n")
    myFile.close()

if __name__=='__main__':
    myFunction(r'c:\tmp\trythisout.txt')
    print "Finished!!"
:::::::::::::::::::::::

again, you can type at the command line:
python try2.py

These are very trivial samples of the common ways of getting a python script
to run from the windows command line.

If you will be delving further into python on Win32, Mark Hammond's + Andy
Robinson's Oreilly book "Programming on Win32" is HIGHLY recommended.

Hope this has been helpful.

teep
shaka <fabrice.n at home.com> wrote in message
news:XY1d6.9583$KP3.3117045 at news3.rdc1.on.home.com...
>
>
>
> Ok, I need some help here.  I just download python on my computer.
> I installed it to     C:\programming\python20
>
> I know how to use the interactive mode.  And when write a script I usually
> run it from the editor(idle) by clicking on "run script".
>
> But when I try to run the script using the interpreter, it doesn't work.
> What I do is to type the name of the script.py in the interactive mode. It

> always give me an error message like:
>                         Traceback (most recent call last):
>                           File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>                         NameError: There is no variable named 'hello'
>
> Is the interpreter suppose to be in interactive mode everytime?
>
> If you have no idea of what I am talking about, can you just describe me
how
> you usually run your script.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>




From MarkH at ActiveState.com  Sun Jan 28 23:57:12 2001
From: MarkH at ActiveState.com (Mark Hammond)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 04:57:12 GMT
Subject: win32net NetServerEnum BufferSize, Resume
References: <kjf47t0capb2obuftos06n8i95mr4dbvtg@4ax.com> <6nl97ts5i3kgcjs8uijdm56juqc2a0jl2g@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <952t75$db$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

In article <6nl97ts5i3kgcjs8uijdm56juqc2a0jl2g at 4ax.com>,
  djmoore at uh.edu wrote:

> So it looks like this is an error which will go away in the next
> release, I hope.

Yep.

> >The code fragment below is based on John Nielson's NetWkstaUserEnum
> >example in the Win32 Extensions Network Overview. I've deleted
> >Nielson's initial call to Net...Enum, and just set resumeHandle
> >nonzero so as to go through the While loop at least once. Would this
> >be a problem if I did indeed need to resume?

Nope.

Also, I have changed all functions documented as supporting
MAX_PREFERRED_LENGTH to use this instead of 4096 as the default size.

Mark.


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Thu Jan  4 11:14:20 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 17:14:20 +0100
Subject: Playing an .mov, .avi etc. file??
References: <92vsna$hdq$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <3A545966.F8794D69@ira.uka.de>
Message-ID: <93285i04ha@news2.newsguy.com>

"Markus von Ehr" <vonehr at ira.uka.de> wrote in message
news:3A545966.F8794D69 at ira.uka.de...
>
> harrc at my-deja.com wrote:
> >
> > Does anyone know of a good way from Python to play a video file (.avi
> > or .mpg or .mov)?  Or even better, a way to play slected tracks off a
    [snip]
> On windows systems you can use the win32com module and use OLE/COM
> control mechanism. I tried to use MediaPlayer, but had problems.
> If you use windows and COM control, please answer in case of success.

Here's a quickie that works for me, though, as I mentioned, I don't
have a working soundcard, so I'm running it with a videofile instead.

As I suggested in a previous message, doing it through Internet
Explorer is generally the easiest way to instantiate an Active/X
Control on Windows.  Of course, for better control on the user
interface, one would (e.g.) write this as an HTA (HTML Application)
with the correct attributes, and/or hide the uneeded IE controls,
resize the window around the video being displayed, etc -- but, that
would take me more than the 5 minutes it took to put this together...:

import time, win32com.client.gencache

ie = win32com.client.gencache.EnsureDispatch(
    "InternetExplorer.Application")
ie.Navigate(r'about:blank')

doc = ie.Document
doc.body.insertAdjacentHTML("afterBegin",
"""
<OBJECT ID="MediaPlayer1"
    CLASSID="CLSID:22D6f312-B0F6-11D0-94AB-0080C74C7E95">
</OBJECT>
""")

mp = doc.body.children("MediaPlayer1").object

mp.FileName = r"D:\Videos\AVideo.m1v"
print mp.ReadyState,mp.Duration

ie.Visible=1

mp.Play
time.sleep(mp.Duration)

ie.Quit()


Alex





From vesemir at pro1.promail.pl  Sun Jan  7 16:05:08 2001
From: vesemir at pro1.promail.pl (Vesemir)
Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2001 22:05:08 +0100
Subject: shtml in python
References: <93adro$k9n$1@sunsite.icm.edu.pl> <9z366.240411$_5.53698286@news4.rdc1.on.home.com>
Message-ID: <93algg$pdj$1@sunsite.icm.edu.pl>

Hello!
U?ytkownik "Michael P. Soulier" <msoulier at storm.ca> napisa? w wiadomo?ci
news:9z366.240411$_5.53698286 at news4.rdc1.on.home.com...
> In article <93adro$k9n$1 at sunsite.icm.edu.pl>, Vesemir wrote:
> >
> >How to write shtml scripts in python?
> >what's needed to configure apache server?
>
>     I think you're confusing two concepts here. shtml is a standard file
> extension for Server Side Includes. This has nothing to do with Python. If
you
> are instead hoping to use Python to write CGI scripts, then read up on
your
> web server's documentation on how to enable CGI scripts. If it's apache,
check
> the apache web site. They have excellent documention.

No! I want to configure apache server to embed python scripts into html
code.

Yours
QdlatY




From moshez at zadka.site.co.il  Sat Jan 27 12:42:55 2001
From: moshez at zadka.site.co.il (Moshe Zadka)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 19:42:55 +0200 (IST)
Subject: . Python 2.1 function attributes
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0101271158190.3501-100000@y.glue.umd.edu>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0101271158190.3501-100000@y.glue.umd.edu>, <Pine.GSO.4.21.0101270135190.7677-100000@y.glue.umd.edu> <mailman.980593892.725.python-list@python.org> <$5A+ZwAGjtc6EwE0@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <14962.62953.304511.523826@anthem.wooz.org> <mailman.980613639.23439.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <20010127174255.2ACE0A840@darjeeling.zadka.site.co.il>

On Sat, 27 Jan 2001 12:12:07 -0500, Roy Katz <katz at Glue.umd.edu> wrote:

> Yeah, I was griping about the language going to hell and I meant it.  I
> don't mean to return to Python 1.3 days, but some things (notably
> print>>) contribute a fair share towards Perlization. 

I don't think so.

> Given Python's current "there's a right way to do it" motto, and
> its recent TMTOWTDIfication, perhaps a more fitting one would be
> "yeah, but so-and-so came up with a patch, and we couldn't resist, so we
> included it. So deal."

I disagree: in most cases, it was "well, there was a very ugly way to
do it, but so-and-so came up with a patch and a convincing argument.".

Examples:

Printing:
Standard output is a sinch:

print foo, bar

Does lots of things in an intuitive way (prints new lines and spaces,
calls str()). But when you decide to modify it to print to standard
error, or a log file it turns into either

sys.stderr(str(foo)+' '+str(bar)+'\n')

Or

sys.stdout = sys.stderr
try:
	print foo, bar
finally:
	sys.stdout = sys.__stdout__

Compared to both,

print >>sys.stderr foo, bar

Is obvious, simple and easy to understand.

List comprehensions:
You want to get values of a dictionary for a subset of the keys.

Both

map(lambda x,d=d: d[x], subset)

And

map(operator.getitem, [d]*len(subset), subset)

Are less obvious then

[d[x] for x in subset]

You may wonder why it all happened all of a sudden? For years, 
there was one-and-a-half people working on Python seriously who
could check in directly to the master CVS. Suddenly an explosion
of developers happened and there were many more man hours to invest
in Python.

> I call for boycotting print>>.  I expect one person, maybe less,
> to support me on that.  

Sadly, too many people here support you in that. Sadly, because it's
a feature that was added by people who write a *lot* of Python, and
wanted to make Python-writing more fun.

-- 
Moshe Zadka <sig at zadka.site.co.il>
This is a signature anti-virus. 
Please stop the spread of signature viruses!
Fingerprint: 4BD1 7705 EEC0 260A 7F21  4817 C7FC A636 46D0 1BD6



From gregj at pobox.com  Sat Jan 27 14:02:35 2001
From: gregj at pobox.com (Greg Jorgensen)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 19:02:35 GMT
Subject: Creating files.
References: <3A72FDD0.2C1206CF@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <94v608$641$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

In article <3A72FDD0.2C1206CF at hotmail.com>,
  joonas <keisari_ at hotmail.com> wrote:
> Is there any functions in Python for creating files?

Just open it. If the named file doesn't exist Python will create it.

    f = open("filename", "w")  # opens "filename" for writing
    f.write("hello, world!")
    f.close()

If you are just starting with Python but already know how to program,
the Python Tutorial at www.python.org and the book "Python Essential
Reference" by David Beazley are a good combination. Also look
at "Learning Python" by Mark Lutz.

--
Greg Jorgensen
Portland, Oregon, USA
gregj at pobox.com


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From amk at mira.erols.com  Thu Jan  4 18:39:01 2001
From: amk at mira.erols.com (A.M. Kuchling)
Date: 4 Jan 2001 23:39:01 GMT
Subject: AMK's ZODB package on Win32
References: <mailman.978625505.30132.python-list@python.org> <Nl556.119244$15.24450203@news1.rdc1.az.home.com>
Message-ID: <slrn95a367.hp.amk@207-172-36-136.s136.tnt6.ann.va.dialup.rcn.com>

On Thu, 04 Jan 2001 20:49:49 GMT, 
	Lennard van der Feltz <lvanderfeltz at knowledgetrax.com> wrote:
>I was able to use the ZODB part of the package without undue difficulty. The
>ZEO part of the package is tailored to Linux.

Are you referring to the zeod script and the init.d script?  I don't
think there's a technical reason preventing ZEO from working on
Windows (asyncore is supposed to work on Windows, and that's the most
critical piece).  But I have no idea how to write a Windows service;
if someone wanted to do this, patches would gratefully be accepted.

--amk


From ljohnson at resgen.com  Thu Jan 18 11:02:42 2001
From: ljohnson at resgen.com (Lyle Johnson)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 10:02:42 -0600
Subject: Automatic Documentation Tools?
References: <mailman.979786073.2627.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <t6e4oacdp6gm24@corp.supernews.com>

Terry,

You might follow-up on some of the information presented on the doc-sig web
page:

    http://python.org/sigs/doc-sig/

Lyle

"Terry Hancock" <hancock at earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:mailman.979786073.2627.python-list at python.org...
> I've seen a number of automatically generated documentation
> on the web for C/C++ source code.  Is there anything like
> this for Python?  I've taken over documenting a piece of
> code, and it would be nice to at list have a list of classes,
> attributes, and methods from which to work.  Seems like it
> ought to be automateable, but I don't know the fastest way
> to do it.
>
> Any suggestions?
>
> --
> Terry Hancock
> hancock at earthlink.net
>




From andreas at andreas-jung.com  Mon Jan 15 12:57:19 2001
From: andreas at andreas-jung.com (Andreas Jung)
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 18:57:19 +0100
Subject: client/server python examples
In-Reply-To: <F129b5YI9IJsaJbqJGN00016017@hotmail.com>; from objectmulti@hotmail.com on Mon, Jan 15, 2001 at 05:42:26PM +0000
References: <F129b5YI9IJsaJbqJGN00016017@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <20010115185719.A6765@yetix.sz-sb.de>

On Mon, Jan 15, 2001 at 05:42:26PM +0000, anand v wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Could someone please provide some standalone examples
> of client and server written in python to communicate
> on sockets??? and also it will be very helpful if the server
> has some threads also..
> 

Basic examples for using the socket module are in the library
documentation. Thread related socket programming is similar
to "standard" socket programming.

Andreas
 



From jepler at inetnebr.com  Thu Jan 25 08:52:07 2001
From: jepler at inetnebr.com (Jeff Epler)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 13:52:07 GMT
Subject: Python 2.1 alpha 1 released!
References: <mailman.980220934.8870.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrn970bs7.1g0.jepler@potty.housenet>

On Mon, 22 Jan 2001 22:33:02 -0500, Guido van Rossum
 <guido at digicool.com> wrote:
>- File objects have a new method, xreadlines().  This is the fastest
>  way to iterate over all lines in a file:
>
>  for line in file.xreadlines():
>      ...do something to line...

Woo hoo, I'm famous!

Jeff


From dieter at handshake.de  Wed Jan 10 16:27:02 2001
From: dieter at handshake.de (Dieter Maurer)
Date: 10 Jan 2001 22:27:02 +0100
Subject: A single, general looping construct? (was: why no "do : until"?)
References: <mailman.978749168.22182.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <x7bstfjdy1.fsf@lindm.dm>

"Tim Peters" <tim.one at home.com> writes on Fri, 5 Jan 2001 21:45:27 -0500:
> ... It sold itself on its merits.  Unlike, say, curly
> braces, the use of which is akin to filling your pillow with garlic to keep
> vampires away <wink>.
I do not agree with this comparison.
I like curly brace structuring much more than indentation based
structuring with this hell of tab/space fuzz
and the interactive interpreter choking on indendet commands


Dieter


From jbauer at rubic.com  Tue Jan 23 18:46:02 2001
From: jbauer at rubic.com (Jeff Bauer)
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 17:46:02 -0600
Subject: If I was recruiting Python people were is the best place to go
References: <94kvqa0g4t@enews2.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <3A6E17BA.DA98BF07@rubic.com>

Rick Amores wrote:
> If I was recruiting Python people were is the 
> best place to go?

Long Beach, California.  http://www.python9.com

Jeff Bauer
Rubicon Research



From loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de  Fri Jan 19 08:28:37 2001
From: loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de (Martin von Loewis)
Date: 19 Jan 2001 14:28:37 +0100
Subject: adding the XML to 2.0 to be a mistake?
References: <mailman.979611383.15529.python-list@python.org> <3d8zocuqrd.fsf@kronos.cnri.reston.va.us> <mailman.979886968.5008.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <p6qwvbr7jsq.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Paul Prescod <paulp at ActiveState.com> writes:

> I agree with this. I don't think that minidom should have an existence
> independent of Python. The PyXML minidom should be phased out. 

Not sure what you mean here. If your proposal is to remove minidom
from PyXML: that won't work.

> The only reason it was not is because some people still use it with
> older versions of Python.

No, this is not a reason.

When the xml package was incorporated into Python 2, I implemented a
scheme where PyXML and the core xml packages would be merged, by
playing tricks with the package __path__.

This solution was rejected in favour of the _xmlplus approach. In that
approach, PyXML must provide a superset of the core xml package; that
is part of the contract between Python and PyXML. Therefore, minidom
and pulldom must continue to exist in PyXML.

That the versions temporarily differ is a convenience to the PyXML
maintainer: it is easier to modify PyXML, release it, get it tested,
and only integrate the changes into Python when they have been
verified.

> I don't know what you mean by saying that PyXML is "tied to Python."
> PyXML depends on Python, just as PIL and NumPy do.

I agree it is a stronger relationship: PyXML promises not to break
applications that work without it. Mere presence of PIL and NumPy
normally cannot break applications (unless the application uses the
same module names as PIL or NumPy); mere presence of PyXML could more
easily break applications - it is the responsibility of the PyXML
maintainer to make sure that this does not happen.

Regards,
Martin


From jkndeja at my-deja.com  Fri Jan 19 07:22:05 2001
From: jkndeja at my-deja.com (jkndeja at my-deja.com)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 12:22:05 GMT
Subject: Literate programming in Python
References: <MIo96.76568$eB2.6160368@news.infostrada.it> <slrn96ckqk.178.amk@207-172-111-159.s159.tnt1.ann.va.dialup.rcn.com>
Message-ID: <949bh9$7md$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

Hello Andrew,

    Thanks for the pointer to pyTeX, and:

> (Hmm... py2tex hasn't been maintained for a while.  I'm greatly
> tempted to take it over...)

oh, go on, do... ;-)

    Thanks
    Jon N



Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From ljohnson at resgen.com  Wed Jan  3 15:12:52 2001
From: ljohnson at resgen.com (Lyle Johnson)
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2001 14:12:52 -0600
Subject: OpenGL/GLUT in python
References: <YXe46.16112$n%.820781@news20.bellglobal.com>
Message-ID: <t571p7bjr72469@corp.supernews.com>

> Is there any sites that are specifically focused on this topic? I am
looking
> mainly for tutorial sites.

FWIW, here's a link to the PyOpenGL home page (which has some tutorial
information or links to the same):

    http://pyopengl.sourceforge.net

Lyle





From fgeiger at datec.at  Fri Jan 26 08:11:20 2001
From: fgeiger at datec.at (Franz GEIGER)
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 14:11:20 +0100
Subject: Umlauts revisited: Now they prevent program from running
Message-ID: <94rt05$tbe$1@newsreaderg1.core.theplanet.net>

I pull data out of an Excel sheet using DAO. There are field values
containing text strings. Everything works fine until a text reads e.g.
"St?ck".

After stopping before the exception

"UnicodeError: ASCII encoding error: ordinal not in range(128)"

occurs I display the field in the interactive window of PythonWin
(ActiveState 2.0 on NT4) by simply typing "fld.Value".

It displays u'St\374ck'.

Conversion into a Python string by applying print or str() yields:

"Traceback (innermost last):
  File "<interactive input>", line 1, in ?
UnicodeError: ASCII encoding error: ordinal not in range(128)"

Any idea how to overcome this?

Best regards
Franz GEIGER





From tim.one at home.com  Sun Jan  7 05:09:35 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2001 05:09:35 -0500
Subject: Iterating over multiple lists (a newbie question)
In-Reply-To: <20010107172846.21D01A828@darjeeling.zadka.site.co.il>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCAECOIHAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Moshe Zadka]
> So why can't map just assume things without length have length 0?

Obviously, it could, since it tolerates lies already.

> ...
> From my reading of the source, you'd have to change the
>
>                 if ((curlen = sqp->len =
> (*sqp->sqf->sq_length)(sqp->seq)) < 0)
>                         goto Fail_2;
>
> Into a special case for instances which first checks to see
> whether __len__ exists, and take the sqf->sq_length check out
> of the if.
>
> Is there something bad about doing this, or has it just been
> lack of time?

I'd say it's more lack of interest -- of all the interesting things one
*might* do in the Python universe, adding more hacks to map() is scraping
the bottom of the snake's belly.

number-of-requests-zero-number-of-volunteers-zero-ly y'rs  - tim




From jbauer at rubic.com  Thu Jan 11 08:57:55 2001
From: jbauer at rubic.com (Jeff Bauer)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 07:57:55 -0600
Subject: Module for reading tarfiles?
References: <200101111322.IAA00533@207-172-57-151.s151.tnt2.ann.va.dialup.rcn.com>
Message-ID: <3A5DBBE3.59A53EF5@rubic.com>

"A.M. Kuchling" wrote:
> Does anyone have any code for reading tar archives in Python?  A long
> time ago, Clemens Hintze wrote a tarlib.py that was on python.org, but
> it no longer seems to be there.  Anyone have a copy lying around?  If
> no code can be found, I'll start working on a module to handle
> tarfiles.

Andrew,

I ripped out Jim Fulton's code out of Zope to handle both
normal and compressed tar files.  You've had experience
doing this with ZODB. ;-)

Perhaps some version of the code could make it into the
standard distribution.

gems-hidden-amongst-dross-ly y'rs,

Jeff Bauer
Rubicon Research



From kvthan at wm.edu  Fri Jan 12 12:21:02 2001
From: kvthan at wm.edu (Kapil Thangavelu)
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 17:21:02 GMT
Subject: Calling Java Code from CPython (1.5.2 or 2.0)
References: <93mdfs$g7q$1@nyheter.chalmers.se>
Message-ID: <22H76.6035$jM3.246877@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>

if you're just  looking for db access than try the ODBC adaptor (zope.org). looking
over the python papers for IPC9 (python9.org) there is something about 
cPython integration with java that might be worth checking into.

kapil

In article <93mdfs$g7q$1 at nyheter.chalmers.se>, "Dario Lopez-K?sten"
<dario at _no_spam_.ita.chalmers.se> wrote:

> Hello!
> 
> <newbie class="clueless">
> 
> I would like to know if it is possible to call Java Code from CPython
> (as in not Jython or JPython). I am asking this, because i'd like to be
> able to experiment using JDBC in conjunction with python; specifically,
> I want to use Zope and JDBC drivers on Solaris/Linux and that "other"
> operating system to connect to Oracle, MIMER and some other DBMSs we
> have.
> 
> There is one JDBC database adapter for JPython, but I don't know if it
> is possible to mix JPython/Jython with CPython.
> 
> </newbie>
> 
> I have searched the archives but all references to Java and Python end
> up in Jython/JPython.
> 
> I might add that I am a new Python user and haven't really had time to
> do anythin usefull so far; therefore, any help is appreciated.
> 
> TIA,
> 
> /dario
> 
> - --------------------------------------------------------------------
> Dario Lopez-K?sten     Systems Developer  Chalmers Univ. of Technology
> dario at ita.chalmers.se  ICQ will yield no hits    IT Systems & Services
> 
>


From dsh8290 at rit.edu  Tue Jan 30 13:51:38 2001
From: dsh8290 at rit.edu (D-Man)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 13:51:38 -0500
Subject: Python vs Ruby
In-Reply-To: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCIECKIMAA.tim.one@home.com>; from tim.one@home.com on Tue, Jan 30, 2001 at 01:16:31AM -0500
References: <20010129111820.C15924@harmony.cs.rit.edu> <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCIECKIMAA.tim.one@home.com>
Message-ID: <20010130135138.B22695@harmony.cs.rit.edu>

On Tue, Jan 30, 2001 at 01:16:31AM -0500, Tim Peters wrote:

[snip rather good and insightfull explanation of python's dynamic
memory usage]

| > ...
| > All the tests I've seen of the Boehm collector used C programs
| > originally designed for malloc/free, not using any ref counting schemes.
| > Maybe this has an effect?
| 
| No C program I know of does dynamic allocation on virtually every line.
| Python programs do.  C++ is somewhere between them, but closer to the C end.

Good point.  Also describes why python is not good for kernel or
device driver programming.

| 
| > I wonder if python was designed for the collector instead of ref
| > counting if this would improve its performance . . .
| 
| There's no sense in which Python was designed "for" ref counting.  The

By "designed for ref counting" I meant that the way functions "own"
memory and take responsibility for the memory is different than if
traditional C techniques were used.  (that is, defining in
documentation that some function owns the memory and has the
responsibility of free()ing it)

I am noticing now how we said "Python ...".  I think we both mean
"The Python interpreter ..." not the Python language. :-)

| single highest-payoff thing it could do here, regardless of garbage
| collection scheme, would be to grow a lot of hair to *exempt* some objects
| from participating in the gc scheme du jour.  For example, in a language
| with more sanely static semantics, it would be easy to see in the example
| above that there's no need to allocate an integer object for the result of
| id(s) each time through the loop -- it could just store that result on a
| stack (or in a register) and exempt it entirely from refcounting (or M&S, or
| whatever).  Similarly for the loop index "i", and the function object
| "choice".
| 
| BTW, note that Perl also does refcounting, and for the same reasons.  The
| idea that fancier gc schemes must be faster is ... an idea <0.9 wink>.
| 
| if-anything-about-gc-seems-obvious-it's-an-illusion-ly y'rs  - tim
| 

Does the interpreter always call free() when the ref count is 0?
Sometimes (in the short run anyways) gc can produce faster results
with some operations -- you can keep working and wait to do the actual
free()ing when the application is idle.  

If the interpreter used gc, it would certainly be simpler to write it
and extension modules -- no worrying about whether or not to INCREF()
or DECREF().  But there are other tradeoffs as well, speed and
intermediate memory usage being two that you have described in favor
of refcounting.

>From the python code side of things, it really doesn't matter (much)
whether ref counting or gc is used.

On the other hand, take Java.  Early JVMs ran the garbage collector in 
such a low priority thread that deallocation of memory almost never
happened. 

I'm-not-saying-that-python-should-drop-refcounting-and-use-gc-ly y'rs -D




From donn at oz.net  Sun Jan 14 23:50:59 2001
From: donn at oz.net (Donn Cave)
Date: 15 Jan 2001 04:50:59 GMT
Subject: File I/O, rfc822, and stdin/stdout
References: <m9b26t8f11lvfjg8a59fo8nfdcl1ro9art@4ax.com> <mailman.979458074.1585.python-list@python.org> <72i36t8mmo27mi2nmv5iahr4ospps9crat@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <93tvjj$mlp$0@216.39.151.169>

Quoth Sheila King <sheila at thinkspot.net>:
[... re From and Return-Path ]
| Well, apparently rfc822 requires those lines, because at least now it is
| delivering a message.

Alas, it doesn't require those lines.  You can whomp up a test message
to see what will fly, and really just about anything goes.

[... re body = fileobject.read() ]
| Secondly, why is "print body" causing this line?
| <rfc822.Message instance at 80bf6d8>
| ?

It isn't. I don't know what's going on there, but if it helps,
that's the "repr" of the Message instance.  Python naturally
endows an object with two text display functions, repr and str.
The rfc822.Message class implements its own str function (__str__()),
and lets the repr work out per default Python convention.  That
str function is what you're trying to use to display the headers,
when you say "print inheaders" -- print invokes the str function
of the objects it displays.  The repr will come out in other
circumstance, for example the str function of a list or other
such container will repr its contents.

Like I say, have no idea where that's coming from.  I would have
to believe that the program you posted really wasn't the one that
produced the output you posted.  The mail system you're working
with may be playing tricks on you.  Your post yesterday showed
a good empirical approach to the problem, but already was running
into some inexplicable contradictions, so I guess you're in for
either more basic empirical research or better documentation.

	Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu


From delza at antarcti.ca  Tue Jan  2 17:38:00 2001
From: delza at antarcti.ca (Dethe Elza)
Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2001 22:38:00 GMT
Subject: Season's greetings (was Re: Some Python 2.1 ideas)
References: <mailman.977765348.13376.python-list@python.org> <928otj02l39@news1.newsguy.com> <92dar2$juv$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <cLs46.921536$8u4.18401688@news1.rdc1.bc.home.com>

> I also have a teenage son,. His experience is java, C, C++. I found
> that the python project with the biggest zowie! factor was V-python,
> formerly visual python:
> http://sourceforge.net/projects/visualpython
>
> This unfortunately requires a special python, for reasons I find
> specious
<snip>

Not anymore.  VPython is updated to Python2.0 and now plays well with
others.
They're working to make the installer easier and provide zip files for the
experienced.

still-waiting-for-texture-support'ly yrs
--Dethe




From sat at multitech.com  Fri Jan 19 11:47:01 2001
From: sat at multitech.com (Steve Tuckner)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 10:47:01 -0600
Subject: Evaluting a python code in a string
Message-ID: <Se_96.394$mY4.179630@news.uswest.net>

In Perl you can evaluation perl code that is embedded in a string by using
the Eval function. For example the following code:

$i = "hello"
eval "print $i";

will print "hello" to the terminal.

How can a person do a similar function in Python? I tried the following
code:

import code
c = code.compile_command("print \"hello\"")
code.runcode(c)

and I get a run-time exception: Attribute error: runcode. I get the same
error if instead I just use the runsource() function.




From dag at orion.no  Fri Jan 26 18:51:53 2001
From: dag at orion.no (Dag Sunde)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 00:51:53 +0100
Subject: Execute an external application from inside a python script
References: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0101261225110.6125-100000@arildh.pasta.cs.uit.no>
Message-ID: <X2oc6.2681$jQ1.36896@news1.oke.nextra.no>

This is one way, that works ok in a WIN env.:

  os.system('CMD /C "' + fileToRun + '"')

Dag

"Arild Hansen" <arildh at stud.cs.uit.no> wrote in message
news:Pine.LNX.4.21.0101261225110.6125-100000 at arildh.pasta.cs.uit.no...
> Hello,
>
> How do I execute an (executable) application from inside some python
code,
> and how do I terminate this application? All help greatly appreciated.
>
> A. Hansen
>




From rcalco at cortechs.com  Wed Jan  3 16:30:49 2001
From: rcalco at cortechs.com (Bob Calco)
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2001 16:30:49 -0500
Subject: COM servers in python
Message-ID: <BGEGJFOHFLNFHACAJJMLEECPCPAA.rcalco@cortechs.com>

For the Win32/COM folk:

I would like to encapsulate numerous command line utilities that are part of
my program and provide COM wrappers to them in Python, mainly for
prototyping purposes; eventually, they'll be implemented in C++ Builder or
Delphi (depending on who works on it).

The question I have is regarding aggregation/containment strategies. Does
anyone have any experience trying to aggregate or contain several COM
objects (both written in Python and not) through a single COM server written
in Python? I don't expect it to perform super fast or anything, but one of
the goals of the prototypes is to provide sufficient backend functionality
so that pieces of the front end can be developed further while the design of
the back end interfaces is solidified (hopefully, with the experience of
using the Python COM wrappers). Writing these critters from scratch in C++
is rather a hassle. I want to use Python to prototype them, then, once I'm
happy with the methods and properties, go right to IDL and implement them in
C++. Ideally, we'll prototype them in Python, test them and say, "Hey, they
work great! Let's go code them in..XXX" but realistically I expect to refine
them before we go code them.

I have Mark Hammond's and Andy Robinson's book, "Program Python on Win32"
and it certainly whetts the appetite but still I'd like to understand things
a little better. For instance, how to implement Connection Points -- some of
my utilities will have output or may occasionally require input from the
user. I'd like the clients to be able to take that output as it comes and do
with it what they may, or react to requests for input, but that implies
being able to fire an event from the server that is handled by the client.
Can this be done in Python? Mark seems to discourage the use of callbacks,
for instance, but this is a very common thing for a COM object to do, and
one of the things that makes ActiveX controls possible. Or should I just
wait till I implement such features in C++/Delphi?

I have peeked with curiosity at the ccompiler.py and msvccompiler.py and
observed that several of my command line utilities wrappers will be as
complex as msvccompiler.py in terms of the numbers of options and the logic
to keep the command line "clean" and non-contradictory. However, the
workflow of a given instance of my program needs to juggle instances of my
command line utilities deftly in order for the end user to enjoy his/her
experience. So there's a lot going on.

Any thoughts, questions or suggestions are welcome.

#*******************************************
#* Bob Calco
#* Lead Developer
#* CorTechs, Inc.
#*******************************************
#* MI Certified Product Specialist
#* MI Certified Product Instructor
#*******************************************
#* rcalco at cortechs.com
#* 703.989.3160 -- cell
#* 703.968.7021 -- office (ext. 120)
#* 703.968.8180 -- fax
#*******************************************




From db3l at fitlinxx.com  Thu Jan 18 00:18:03 2001
From: db3l at fitlinxx.com (David Bolen)
Date: 18 Jan 2001 00:18:03 -0500
Subject: threading: how to kill a (possibly blocked) thread?
References: <3A649FE4.E582D0E0@ll.mit.edu> <u1yu2vmiq.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com> <944ekb$ri$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <uu26xbfqs.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com>

rturpin at my-deja.com writes:

>   set_interrupt(8, funcCallBack)
> 
> Then, funcCallBack gets invoked every 8 seconds,
> interrupting what the thread is doing, and returning
> to the interrupted code when the function returns.
> Unfortunately, I don't see such a facility in the
> library.

The issue is most likely that there's nothing I'm aware of in that
vein that is at all portable - also the ability to interrupt a pending
activity can be problematic.  Under Unix for example, not all I/O
calls are interruptable and they also don't all restart nicely even if
you may have SA_RESTART on the signal in question.  Then there's the
whole delivery of signals/interrupts to other than the main thread
problem on many systems.

I don't disagree with the sentiment, and have found myself wishing I
could just block in an operation in a thread more than once - just
trying to explain why it likely isn't in Python itself, nor likely to
be in the near future.

But with that said, I've got plenty of multi-threaded code that does
just fine with the "don't ever really block indefinitely" model, in
terms of addressing the original poster's question.

> > .. The main thread code should then check the event
> > object periodically and exit nicely if it is set.
> 
> Except for certain kinds of processing, such as FSMs,
> this gets REAL ugly REAL fast. It also fails to protect
> against the very things for which you want a guard,
> i.e., external events that never occur.

I'd need a specific example, but I'd think an FSM would be ideal for
this model, since by its nature you have some primary loop which is
making the state automaton decisions, and thus you should have a key
opportunity to deduce that it's time to exit.  And if you're just
sitting in a state without anything to do, well spend the time blocked
on some event that can be woken up should an exit request come in.

I'm not sure I follow the last sentence because I'm referring to
coding so that you never block indefinitely, but instead use whatever
mechanisms may be available to wait for the event you want but in some
timed manner so you get the occasion to check for an exit every once
in a while.  And that's specifically to guard against the external
event never occurring.

Typically the most troubling can be I/O operations that don't support
any way to timeout or monitor the status without blocking.  Often,
I've found that this is because the portable approach is more limited
than the native approach, which can be discouraging since most other
aspects of Python threading are so clean and portable.

--
-- David
-- 
/-----------------------------------------------------------------------\
 \               David Bolen            \   E-mail: db3l at fitlinxx.com  /
  |             FitLinxx, Inc.            \  Phone: (203) 708-5192    |
 /  860 Canal Street, Stamford, CT  06902   \  Fax: (203) 316-5150     \
\-----------------------------------------------------------------------/


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Tue Jan  2 16:23:12 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2001 22:23:12 +0100
Subject: how do i check if a file exists with python?
References: <92hi3h01f0d@news2.newsguy.com>, <RlM26.98766$yR4.2639444@news1.rdc1.tx.home.com> <phU26.31$KD3.4767@typhoon.aracnet.com> <20001231152131.7CECDA84F@darjeeling.zadka.site.co.il>
Message-ID: <008f01c07502$3b139f60$43931497@martelli>

"Moshe Zadka" <moshez at zadka.site.co.il> writes:

> > When somebody asks how to determine whether a file exists, it IS quite
> > likely that what they mean is something different
> ...
> > It's unlikely, although of course possible, that 'actual existence'
> > is exactly what one needs to determine
> 
> In that case, on a typical OS (even Windows-like, although it's more
> pronounced on UNIX) one *can't* know the answer, in general. Consider
> stuff like unreadable directories, for example.

It may need sufficient privilege to determine existence, but a nastier
problem is with removable and network-mounted media -- tough
indeed to distinguish between "doesn't exist" and "does exist but it
just can't be reached right now".


Alex



_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com




From fredrik at effbot.org  Mon Jan  1 12:28:57 2001
From: fredrik at effbot.org (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Mon, 01 Jan 2001 17:28:57 GMT
Subject: STRPTIME method missing from TIME class, in win32 ?
References: <WA246.38186$MA1.947625@afrodite.telenet-ops.be>
Message-ID: <t7346.2474$AH6.383897@newsc.telia.net>

Werner Geuens wrote:
> A very basic method, STRPTIME, seem to be missing from the Win32
> distributions. Both 1.5.2 and 2.0 lack this method. A bit weird, considering
> an ill supported platform such as OS/2 has the method in it's 1.5.x release.
>
> The tutorials mensions "This function may not be defined on all platforms.".
>
> Can someone give me a sane explanation WHY ?

it's only supported if the underlying C library supports it.

microsoft's C library doesn't.

search deja.com for more info, and several pure-Python
replacements.

</F>




From fredrik at effbot.org  Wed Jan  3 17:26:41 2001
From: fredrik at effbot.org (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 22:26:41 GMT
Subject: Name Error
References: <3A5395B5.EBE77FA4@bioeng.ucsd.edu> <Y3N46.3526$Qb7.440895@newsb.telia.net> <3A53A41F.35DD7765@bioeng.ucsd.edu>
Message-ID: <BGN46.3540$Qb7.443014@newsb.telia.net>

Curtis Jensen wrote:
> Oh, I see the problem.  I do assign to stored_data.  It works if I
> comment out the last line.  I didn't think that would cause
> "stored_data" to change scopes.

Inside a function or method, a name can be either local (in
the function's namespace) or global (in the module's name-
space).

To figure out what's what, Python's compiler looks for assign-
ments inside the function body.   Any name you assign to [1]
is considered to be local, any other name is global.

Note that affects all uses of a name inside a function body.
if you try to access a local variable before you've assigned
any value to it, Python will raise an exception, rather than
look in the module namespace.

To override this, you can use the "global" statement to mark
a name as belonging to the module namespace, even if you
assign to it:

    def send_data():
        global stored_data
        ...
        # clear stored_data
        stored_data = []

Note that modifying an object in place doesn't count as assign-
ment.  Here's an alternative (probably less efficient) solution:

    def send_data():
        ...
        # clear stored_data
        del stored_data[:]

> Would Python 2.0 not have this problem?

Not really -- but 2.0 says "UnboundLocalError" instead ;-)

Hope this helps!

Cheers /F

1) Assignments also include arguments (assigned during the call),
def/class statements, and imports.




From alembert at mypad.com  Thu Jan 11 22:14:54 2001
From: alembert at mypad.com (Arthur)
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 03:14:54 GMT
Subject: post in CGI scripts
References: <mailman.979051149.6515.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <93lsr8$did$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

In article <mailman.979051149.6515.python-list at python.org>,
  Barbini Uberto <Uberto.Barbini at ceda.polimi.it> wrote:

> I've found some problems to use "post" method in my cgi script (in
python).

I don't understand the difference between 'get' and 'post' methods.
I learned that 'get' will send data in /cgi-bin/<program>?<data> format
but how does 'post' send data? and why 'post' was created?

Thanks

Arthur


--
What happens when supernova stars explodes?
Could be some civilization there being destroyed?
see http://www.50megs.com/aalembert


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From t.harris at robinsons.co.uk  Fri Jan 19 06:05:17 2001
From: t.harris at robinsons.co.uk (Toby)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 11:05:17 -0000
Subject: Global interpreter locks, thread states et al...
Message-ID: <979902284.26681.1.nnrp-10.c3ad12d2@news.demon.co.uk>

Are there any examples (other than pysvr.c shipped with Python 2.0) to
explain the appropriate calls and architecture ? documentation seems to be a
little sketchy..

Toby




From gregj at pobox.com  Mon Jan 22 23:12:59 2001
From: gregj at pobox.com (Greg Jorgensen)
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 04:12:59 GMT
Subject: Replacing control characters.
References: <94ifec$ggt$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <94j0c6$upd$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

Use an editor that does this for you (EditPlus on Windows, for
example), or can do it easily (vi/vim on Linux or Windows). That's the
most efficient way. A text editor that cares about line ending
variations in this decade is lame (unless you really care about the
various flavors of line endings).


In article <94ifec$ggt$1 at nnrp1.deja.com>,
  johnvert at my-deja.com wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I want to replace actual Ctrl keys that are in files.  For example, I
> saved in Netscape (Linux) an HTML file and when I open it in a text
> editor there are a bunch of ^M characters around (probably because the
> file was processed on Windows, which uses a different line ending for
> textfiles--right?).  I want to remove all of these characters, but
since
> it's not an actual caret (^) and a letter M, but the *Ctrl* character
> C-M I don't know how to refer to them in a regexp.  How can I?  Also,
> what would be the most efficient way to do this in Python (e.g. use
> regexp functions to maybe module string will do?)
>
> Thanks,
>   -- John
>
> Sent via Deja.com
> http://www.deja.com/
>

--
Greg Jorgensen
Portland, Oregon, USA
gregj at pobox.com


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From grante at visi.com  Wed Jan 24 10:35:01 2001
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 15:35:01 GMT
Subject: Python for embedded systems (was Re: What does Python do)
References: <94gmeu$4fc$1@sooner.brightok.net> <t1Sa6.4569$Yv.544288@juliett.dax.net> <94gvv5$7mo$1@sooner.brightok.net> <LPUa6.4598$Yv.546853@juliett.dax.net> <2F4DC6312B7FE9DA.74AB95EBEF3C09D4.1D6BDBE5660A1914@lp.airnews.net> <eqZa6.1433$eI2.490960@ruti.visi.com> <3A6D1E04.AABCC7DE@engcorp.com> <riib6.1969$eI2.601187@ruti.visi.com> <3A6E66EE.38FEB4F0@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <FCCb6.2240$eI2.683018@ruti.visi.com>

In article <3A6E66EE.38FEB4F0 at engcorp.com>, Peter Hansen wrote:

>> >... On the other hand the threading model could mess things up
>> >for you, but if you focus on a specific platform, even that is
>> >not necessarily a problem.
>> 
>> The current threading implementation is inappropriate for
>> real-time work, but I don't know why one couldn't implement
>> prioritized preemptive threading for Python.
>
>I think the global interpreter lock would be the thing that
>would get in the way there.  I'm not sure to what extent this
>is true, but I believe a lower priority thread can block a
>higher priority thread for a possibly very large time.  It's
>possibly still deterministic, and therefore still "real-time",
>but not necessarily high performance.  I wouldn't bet my life
>on it yet, since I still need to study the core more.

I think you'd want a thread to be preemptable between any two
bytecodes with explicit mutex operations where multiple threads
desire to operate on shared data.  The finer the granularity
the better, but switching threads during byte code execution
would probably be pretty difficult.

If you do interrupt routines in C it shouldn't be too bad.  If
you want to do interrupt routines in Python, things get a lot
more complicated.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  Loni Anderson's hair
                                  at               should be LEGALIZED!!
                               visi.com            


From grante at visi.com  Tue Jan 23 11:28:07 2001
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 16:28:07 GMT
Subject: What does Python do
References: <94gmeu$4fc$1@sooner.brightok.net> <t1Sa6.4569$Yv.544288@juliett.dax.net> <94gvv5$7mo$1@sooner.brightok.net> <LPUa6.4598$Yv.546853@juliett.dax.net> <2F4DC6312B7FE9DA.74AB95EBEF3C09D4.1D6BDBE5660A1914@lp.airnews.net> <eqZa6.1433$eI2.490960@ruti.visi.com> <3A6D1E04.AABCC7DE@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <riib6.1969$eI2.601187@ruti.visi.com>

In article <3A6D1E04.AABCC7DE at engcorp.com>, Peter Hansen wrote:

>> There are some things for which C is still more applicable than
>> Python: low-level programming such as real-time embedded
>> systems and device drivers where C is used as a "portable
>> assembler".  OTOH, I don't consider C applicable for GUI
>> application development (Python is).
>> 
>> Since beginners aren't generally doing real-time embedded SW or
>> device drivers, I concur that Python is probably the best
>> language (of the ones I know) for a beginner.
>
>Actually, Python can be suitable for real-time embedded
>software, as well.

I suppose it depends on the system resources and requirements.
The vast majority of embedded systems don't have the resources
required to run Python -- even the deeply embedded version
without the compiler.

>(I suppose I could even stretch things a little and say it's
>potentially suitable for device drivers, but not in the way
>most people would define them.)

You can't write a device driver in Python for any of the common
desktop or server OSes: Linux, BSD, Solaris, MacOS, Win*, etc.
It's entirely possible to design an OS such that kernel/driver
code can be in Python, but I'm not aware of such a thing.
Extrapolating even further, you could put the PVM into silicon.

>Python is actually *more* suitable for real-time work, in
>certain circumstances, than Java.  

A lot of real-time system designers cringe at _any_ use of
dynamic memory allocation (other than a frame stack).  Dynamic
_anything_ is the bane of an embedded system.  Although Java
was supposed to be useful for embedded systems, it's been a
tough sell.

>For example, it seems to be a little more deterministic
>(without the garbage collection).  On the other hand the
>threading model could mess things up for you, but if you focus
>on a specific platform, even that is not necessarily a problem.

The current threading implementation is inappropriate for
real-time work, but I don't know why one couldn't implement
prioritized preemptive threading for Python.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  Hold the MAYO & pass
                                  at               the COSMIC AWARENESS...
                               visi.com            


From erno-news at erno.iki.fi  Thu Jan  4 09:33:18 2001
From: erno-news at erno.iki.fi (Erno Kuusela)
Date: 04 Jan 2001 16:33:18 +0200
Subject: Importing into 'containers' namespace
References: <3a544e22.1199160471@news.mch.sni.de> <Vo_46.620$Gd1.76220@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com> <3a547ee0.1211638714@news.mch.sni.de>
Message-ID: <kuvgrvmlox.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>

In article <3a547ee0.1211638714 at news.mch.sni.de>,
nikolai.kirsebom at siemens.no (Nikolai Kirsebom) writes:

| Thanks, I though of this as a possible solution - but I want to try to
| avoid it [...]

if you want to get icky, you can always frob the namespace of the
other module, like
B.FrameWork = FrameWork
or
setattr(B, 'FrameWork', FrameWork).

  -- erno


From Dan.Rolander at marriott.com  Fri Jan 19 08:55:38 2001
From: Dan.Rolander at marriott.com (Rolander, Dan)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 08:55:38 -0500
Subject: BeOpen 2.0 vs ActiveState?
Message-ID: <6176E3D8E36FD111B58900805FA7E0F80CCF62DE@mcnc-mdm1-ex01>

I'd like to hear your thoughts on the two different Win32 distributions,
BeOpen vs. ActiveState. Why should I choose one over the other? The
ActiveState distro is nice to include some of the critical Win32 extensions,
but the thing I don't like about it is the requirement for an agreement with
them to redistribute. If I'm building solutions for others and want to
distribute the Python libraries along with my source code, I don't want to
have to get permission from ActiveState to do that first.

What do others think?

Thanks,
Dan




From grante at visi.com  Wed Jan 17 17:45:14 2001
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 22:45:14 GMT
Subject: parsing a file [newbie]
References: <mailman.979728198.29644.python-list@python.org> <t%o96.174$eI2.99668@ruti.visi.com>
Message-ID: <_fp96.178$eI2.100474@ruti.visi.com>

In article <t%o96.174$eI2.99668 at ruti.visi.com>, Grant Edwards wrote:

>>ONe thing I don't understand. When I run os.popen('df -h'),
>>this returns a pointer to an already open file if I am not
>>mistaken.
[...]
>>Now, to apply what you gave me to this scenario, how would I go about it.
>
>You call the read() or readlines() method of that file object.
>Something like this:
>
>import os
>import string
>
>x = os.popen("mount").readlines()
>y = []
>for line in x:
>    words = string.split(line)
>    if len(words) >= 3:
>        y.append(words[2])

I should point out that were I cool enough to have Python 2.0
installed, I could have used a list comprehension instead of a
for loop.  The for loop is probably a bit more intuitive for a
beginner.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  I want a VEGETARIAN
                                  at               BURRITO to go... with
                               visi.com            EXTRA MSG!!


From grante at visi.com  Mon Jan 15 17:44:13 2001
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 22:44:13 GMT
Subject: how do i disable buffered output, like Perl's '$|=1'?
References: <979490967.23219.0.pluto.d4ee691b@news.demon.nl>
Message-ID: <13L86.268$Q62.250521@ruti.visi.com>

In article <979490967.23219.0.pluto.d4ee691b at news.demon.nl>, floR wrote:

>I can't find anywhere how I can disable 'buffered output', or
>whatever it is called.
>
>In Perl, you simply say $|=1

Well, that's certainly obvious!

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  I decided to be JOHN
                                  at               TRAVOLTA instead!!
                               visi.com            


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Mon Jan 22 12:15:24 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 18:15:24 +0100
Subject: What does Python do
References: <94gmeu$4fc$1@sooner.brightok.net> <t1Sa6.4569$Yv.544288@juliett.dax.net> <94gvv5$7mo$1@sooner.brightok.net> <LPUa6.4598$Yv.546853@juliett.dax.net> <2F4DC6312B7FE9DA.74AB95EBEF3C09D4.1D6BDBE5660A1914@lp.airnews.net>
Message-ID: <94hpra0ain@news1.newsguy.com>

"Cameron Laird" <claird at starbase.neosoft.com> wrote in message
news:2F4DC6312B7FE9DA.74AB95EBEF3C09D4.1D6BDBE5660A1914 at lp.airnews.net...
> In article <LPUa6.4598$Yv.546853 at juliett.dax.net>,
> Dag Sunde <dag at orion.no> wrote:
> >I think Python is _very well suited as a
> >first language...
> .
> .
> .
> I claim an even stronger proposition:  Python
> is the single best language for most beginners.
> Its applicability is as wide as *any* language
> (yes, including C and Java), and it's quite in-
> viting to first-timers.

Just a side-note (I concur with your "stronger
proposition"!)...:

"Total width" may be comparable to C's and Java's,
but there's no complete overlap (with C, at least).

C would not be applicable for an application that
required sending snippets of executable code around
(Java or Python might be), but, OTOH, Python or
Java would not be suitable for writing device drivers
for today's widespread operating systems (the Win32
families, the Unix families, the Mac ones) while C
is quite applicable to that kind of tasks.

_You_ know this, of course, but I'm just trying to
make it clear to other readers (such as the original
poster to this thread) who might not!


Alex





From skip at mojam.com  Thu Jan  4 23:59:28 2001
From: skip at mojam.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 22:59:28 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Migrating to perl?
In-Reply-To: <3Fa56.4580$of7.216286@news1.atl>
References: <3Fa56.4580$of7.216286@news1.atl>
Message-ID: <14933.21680.440187.266261@beluga.mojam.com>

    Joel> Are the modules and add-ons as good as perl (ie, Database -- I'm
    Joel> primarily interested in MySQL, CGI, Graphics).  

I use MySQL all the time from Python.  It's pretty straightforward:

    import MySQLdb
    conn = MySQLdb.Connection(...)
    c = conn.cursor()
    c.execute("select id,name from performers where name like "Paul%")
    for (pid,name) in c.fetchall():
        print pid, name

There is a CGI module that's also fairly easy to use, though it is
undergoing some close scrutiny by the experts to see if it can be improved
upon.  There are also a number of CGI replacements like FastCGI, PyApache,
mod_python and mod_snake (the last three being mod_perl analogs).

"Graphics" covers a multitude of things, so I can only guess what you might
be interested in.  There are Python bindings for VTK
(http://www.kitware.com/) if you are looking for sci-viz and 3d rendering
sorts of things.  I believe there is a gnuplot interface module floating
around.  PythonWare (http://www.pythonware.com/) developed and distributes
PIL (the Python Imaging Library).  I believe there's something called (I
think) Piddle for doing device-indepndent 2d stuff.

Python's infrastructure for module distribution and installation is not as
mature as Perl's CPAN, but there you can search the Vaults of Parnassus
(http://www.vex.net/parnassus/) for third-party modules and there are
packages like distutils that are moving things in the right direction.  The
vast majority are easily installed.

Python is also somewhat more portable that Perl.  There are fully
functioning Windows and Mac ports.  The lag time between the release of a
new Unix version and corresponding Windows and Mac versions is pretty short
(generally a couple weeks to a month at most).

Your comment about Perls multitude of contexts really rings true with me.  I
use Perl in the guise of Mason these days to maintain the Mojam.com website.
(Mason is great, by the way.  I just wish it used Python. ;-) A couple weeks
ago I thought I had all the reference stuff figured out, but then this
morning it all came crashing down on me (again).  Ah well, back to the
perlref manpage...

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at mojam.com)
Support the Mojam.com Affiliates Program: http://www.mojam.com/affl/
(847)971-7098



From banksam at swanhill.net.au  Mon Jan 15 16:14:20 2001
From: banksam at swanhill.net.au (banksam at swanhill.net.au)
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 21:14:20 GMT
Subject: Beginner's question - class definition
Message-ID: <3a6366a8.4537644@news.ruralnet.net.au>

Can anyone explain please why the following definition ( from the
Python documentation)

class Complex:
	def _init_(self, realpart, imagpart):
		self.r = realpart
		self.i = imagpart

when followed by the following attempt to create an instance

x = Complex(3.0,-4.5)

gives this error message

Traceback (innermost last):
  File "<pyshell#5>", line 1, in ?
    x = Complex(3.0,-4.5)
TypeError: this constructor takes no arguments

So far I have had the same error message from any similar definitions
taken from other tutorials.  I am clearly doing something wrong, but I
don't know what.

Arthur Banks



From skip at mojam.com  Thu Jan 11 09:09:03 2001
From: skip at mojam.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 08:09:03 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Speed of Python vs. Perl
In-Reply-To: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCEEPNIHAA.tim.one@home.com>
References: <slrn95qtbp.94d.tim@degree.ath.cx>
	<LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCEEPNIHAA.tim.one@home.com>
Message-ID: <14941.48767.124071.397459@beluga.mojam.com>

    Tim> Indeed, on my box, I can clearly see the difference between:
    Tim> python -c "print 'hi'"
    Tim> and
    Tim> perl -e "print 'hi'"
    Tim> by eyeball (the former takes a noticeable fraction of a second; the latter
    Tim> appears instantaneous).  

Then you have better reflexes than anyone suspected or you need a better box
(I thought you had a 700+ MHz thingamabob)...  On my box (being similarly
vague), the time command shows no more than 0.04sec user time for the python
command and no more than 0.01sec user time for the perl command (even after
adding a \n to make them truly comparable ;-).

Still, the machine seems to think that Python is slower than Perl at startup
even though I can't tell...

of-course-it-could-be-a-windows-/-linux-thing-jab-jab-ly y'rs,

Skip



From erno-news at erno.iki.fi  Sat Jan 20 11:38:12 2001
From: erno-news at erno.iki.fi (Erno Kuusela)
Date: 20 Jan 2001 18:38:12 +0200
Subject: FreeThreading Python?
References: <mailman.980006458.21501.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <kuwvbqb2mj.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>

In article <mailman.980006458.21501.python-list at python.org>, Steve
Spicklemire <steve at spvi.com> writes:

| Now that multiprocessor machines are becoming much more commonplace,
| is there any effort aimed at updating these patches, or 'fixing' the
| GIL thingy so that mere mortals might be able to write pure python
| code that can totally swamp 6 processors at the same time? ;-)

i don't know if there's an effort like that. fixing python so that it
will totally swamp 6 cpus simultaneously != running faster
on 6 cpus than one.

iirc one of the issues is python's reference counting, which would
require a lock to be acquired (or a atomic inc/dec instruction issued)
each time a reference count is manipulated. which happens not at
all seldom in python.

  -- erno


From neelk at alum.mit.edu  Mon Jan 29 19:44:52 2001
From: neelk at alum.mit.edu (Neelakantan Krishnaswami)
Date: 30 Jan 2001 00:44:52 GMT
Subject: [Off topic] allowed to put Python material on the Web?
References: <3a730931.31998180@news.skynet.be> <mf867t0go4en09o0of5r5johp8abgqvg2q@4ax.com> <3A73940E.2637C648@alcyone.com> <slrn9798qu.m44.neelk@alum.mit.edu> <3A749702.4B239F30@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <slrn97c7kl.omf.neelk@alum.mit.edu>

On Sun, 28 Jan 2001 14:02:42 -0800, Erik Max Francis <max at alcyone.com> wrote:
>Neelakantan Krishnaswami wrote:
>
>> Erik Max Francis <max at alcyone.com> wrote:
>>
>> > Sheila King wrote:
>> >
>> > > Technically, once the messages are posted to Usenet, anyone can
>> > > archive and copy them.
>> >       ...
>> > > Authors of Usenet posts still retain copyright to
>> > > their own material.
>> >
>> > These two statements are inconsistent with one another.  (The latter
>> > is the one that is correct, by the way.)
>> 
>> No, they're not.
>> 
>> When someone posts a message they have to grant permission to people
>> to copy, archive and redistribute their messages -- since a) that's
>> how Usenet works, b) since posting to Usenet is wholly voluntary, and
>> c) judges and courts are not entirely stupid.
>
> "Anyone can archive and copy them" is not sufficiently limited to be
> accurate.  You cannot copy a Usenet post uncredit into a book you're
> writing and be free of copyright infringement, for instance.

Touche -- I assumed that Web and ftp were the only way to archive
Usenet. The only book I know of from Usenet material is from
comp.compilers, which states explicitly in the moderation messages
that this is one of the purposes to which posts may be put, so it
doesn't really count.  But I don't know of any actual legal cases
about copying material from random unmoderated Usenet groups, and
that's the sort of thing I would want the opinion of a real lawyer
before trying it, and I expect that I'd pay several hundred dollars to
find out that I could only find out for sure in court. 

Easier just to get permission. :)


Neel


From max at alcyone.com  Sun Jan 14 23:34:08 2001
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 20:34:08 -0800
Subject: Help with Python install
References: <rkp46t8atkoabsmu7v159sm32c0mslp40p@4ax.com> <93tsoe$bja9b$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de> <eru46tgqoa2rkndm7lhl4dm33ei1v4jvr7@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3A627DC0.CF19431E@alcyone.com>

Sheila King wrote:

> Thanks for the suggestion. I had tried it before, but I tried it
> again, at
> your suggestion.
> 
> Still doesn't work. :-(

What you should generally do at this point is do some sanity checks. 
What version of Python is it actually running?  Instead of the program
you'd like to run, replace it with a simple little script that prints
information about the Python version.  Once you know where you are you
can go on from there.

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, US / 37 20 N 121 53 W / ICQ16063900 / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Whoever named it necking was a poor judge of anatomy.
\__/ Groucho Marx
    Official Omega page / http://www.alcyone.com/max/projects/omega/
 The official distribution page for the popular Roguelike, Omega.


From bozonm at users.vscht.cz  Tue Jan 30 06:10:26 2001
From: bozonm at users.vscht.cz (Michal Bozon)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 12:10:26 +0100
Subject: readline: custom keywords
Message-ID: <Pine.BSO.4.10.10101301205190.7564-100000@users.vscht.cz>

__hi__

Is `readline' library designed only for interactive python,
or is it also possible to use it in own programs with own keywords?

I would like to use it following way:
For example:


Choose fruit: <TAB><TAB>
orange
apple
lemon
Choose fruit: le<TAB>
Choose fruit: lemon

thanx

- - - - - - - - -
Michal Bozon
Faculty of Chemical Technology, Prague (student)
bozonm at vscht.cz



From paul.moore at uk.origin-it.com  Wed Jan 31 07:08:11 2001
From: paul.moore at uk.origin-it.com (Paul Moore)
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 13:08:11 +0100
Subject: Benchmarking module for Python
Message-ID: <2P53OlqNc5Cg7uVAjN=rZZ5t6Jix@4ax.com>

I'm looking for a method of benchmarking snippets of Python code, a
bit like Perl's Benchmark module. I have looked at the profile module,
but it doesn't seem to do quite what I want.

What I'm after, given a line of code, is something that will let me
run that line a specified number of times, say 1000, and see the
average time that the line took.

I can do something like that with profile, by wrapping my code in a
function, and profiling 'for i in xrange(1000): fn()', and then
extracting the time spent per call in fn(). But it's a bit of a long
way round to get what I want.

Ideally, I'd like to be able to reuse the timing code from profile,
but if not, then an independent benchmark module would be OK. All I
found on Parnassus was PyBench, which tests a standard set of tasks.

Is there any such thing, or should I start coding?

Paul.

PS Yes, I know that benchmarks are meaningless....



From murple at my-deja.com  Mon Jan 22 05:01:11 2001
From: murple at my-deja.com (murple at my-deja.com)
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 10:01:11 GMT
Subject: Python 2.0 parser module bug(?) and a Q
References: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10012272204060.330-100000@kev.ioc.ee> <p6qofxxe43j.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de> <Pine.LNX.4.10.10012281200430.23773-100000@kev.ioc.ee>
Message-ID: <94h0d5$5va$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

Hi,

> > A  colleague of mine has an "unparser" module
for Python AST; that is
> > not (yet) released to the public, and works
not (yet) for 2.0.

I'm the colleague mentioned. My solution to the
problem doesn't look as good as yours.
I was  rebuilding the Python-code by examining
the structure of the syntax-tree.
This is the reason, it's not working with Python
2.0. I was using the strings in the syntax-tree
only for identifiers. Feeling a little bit
stupid for not seeing this other solution.


> Any constructive critisism is welcome!

Ok, your wish is my command :-)

I noticed two problems:

1. If you have double DEDENT, there is a
'\r' left in the resulting string. This
seems to be easely solved by an replace()

2. Anything like "modul.class.function" comes out
as "modul  . class . function". Using replace
to solve this is not good, since you would replace
also in wrong places. I think, here you would have
to look into the structure of the syntax-tree.

Maybe you have an solution for 2.?

Another question is, which way is faster.
You have to do more recursions, because when
I find a symbol.sym_name["class_stmt"] I write a
"class",  you go another step to find the "class"
string in the tree.
On the other side, I have to do a lot more
comparisons then you.

Maybe after a code-cleanup I will compare the
solutions.

Anyway, I learned a lot about Python by doing
this Unparser (as I call it). It was my first
Python-program ever. And I learned a lot about
Python-Syntax this way.

Hope my comments help you in any way.

By, Andreas


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From nobull at mail.com  Fri Jan 12 13:06:31 2001
From: nobull at mail.com (nobull at mail.com)
Date: 12 Jan 2001 18:06:31 +0000
Subject: Michelle, this is great!
References: <3eb3a99ac6fe35ef407440cf78681fc8@dizum.com>
Message-ID: <u9hf34ir14.fsf@wcl-l.bham.ac.uk>

Nomen Nescio <nobody at dizum.com> writes:

> <script language="JavaScript">

Javascript techniques are off-topic here.

> function MM_openBrWindow(theURL,winName,features) { //v2.0
>   window.open(theURL,winName,features);
> }

> <body bgcolor="#FFFFFF" onLoad="MM_openBrWindow

Anyhow I can't see what's so great about putting a window.open in the
BODY's onLoad method - it's not exactly rocket science.

[ Sorry - couldn't resist ]

-- 
     \\   ( )
  .  _\\__[oo
 .__/  \\ /\@
 .  l___\\
  # ll  l\\
 ###LL  LL\\


From erahmig at minn.net  Sun Jan 14 02:40:43 2001
From: erahmig at minn.net (Eric Rahmig)
Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 01:40:43 -0600
Subject: File I/O, rfc822, and stdin/stdout
In-Reply-To: <m9b26t8f11lvfjg8a59fo8nfdcl1ro9art@4ax.com>; from sheila@thinkspot.net on Sun, Jan 14, 2001 at 06:35:28AM +0000
References: <m9b26t8f11lvfjg8a59fo8nfdcl1ro9art@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <20010114014043.A20364@minn.net>

* Sheila King (sheila at thinkspot.net) [010114 00:46]:
> I'm getting really confused and frustrated here.
> 
> Ultimately, my goal is to write some scripts to handle my incoming e-mail. My
> web host uses qmail as an MTA and with .qmail files I can invoke scripts to
> process my mail. The scripts receive the incoming e-mail from stdin and if
> they write output to stdout, that output can be delivered as the resulting
> e-mail message.

Hi,

If you're not using qmail's 'preline' utility in your .qmail files
that might cause a problem. Without the use of 'preline' the email
message your script sees will NOT start with a From line and will
NOT contain a Return-Path header.

I'm new to Python and have no experience with the rfc822 module. If
it is strict in its message parsing and expects a message to contain
a From line and a Return-Path header then use of preline should help
you:

.qmail-foo:
|preline somescript.py ...

Hope this helps,

Eric

-----------------+------------------------------------------------------------
Eric Rahmig      | "Merely having an open mind is nothing. The object of
erahmig at minn.net |  opening the mind, as of opening the mouth, is to shut it
                 |  again on something solid." -- G.K. Chesterton



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Mon Jan 15 04:44:23 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 10:44:23 +0100
Subject: help retrieving / storing info in dictionary or gadfly
References: <93u48n$65t@dispatch.concentric.net>
Message-ID: <93ugt0025hp@news1.newsguy.com>

"Bryan Webb" <bww00 at amdahl.com> wrote in message
news:93u48n$65t at dispatch.concentric.net...
> Hello,
>     I have a dictionary that has records with keys from 1 to 2^128
> I can build a list and sort the keys in order, then search thru the list
of
> sorted keys.
>     If the list has 1,2,3,4,5,7,8,9 and I need to search for 6. 6 is not
in
> the list , so I need the record that is closest to 6 but not greater than
6.

This is close to what bisect (see 5.5 in the library reference) does
for you, except it gives the index in the sorted list locating the key
closest but not smaller, rather than closest but not greater -- a number
from 0 to len(list), both extremes _included_ -- len(list) if the key
you're looking for is larger than the largest (last) entry in the sorted
list.  You presumably want -1 to len(list)-1 [again extremes included],
with -1 if the key is smaller than the smallest (first) entry.  You
can wrap bisect.bisect for your purposes, e.g.:

def locate(list, key):
    i = bisect.bisect(list,key)
    try:
        if list[i]==key:
            return i
    except IndexError:
        pass
    return i-1

> Is there a way to further index the list of keys to do this ?
>
> Could I use GADFLY to do this.

I don't see how you could do better than O(log N) to locate the
key 'closest but not greater', with any auxiliary data structure
of reasonable size, given your range of possible keys.  And that
is the performance behavior that bisect.bisect gives you.


Alex





From tim.one at home.com  Wed Jan 24 16:38:26 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 16:38:26 -0500
Subject: beep again
In-Reply-To: <94n5td$gu1$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCOEPKIKAA.tim.one@home.com>

[clickron at webtv.net]
> Thanks for answering my last question. I get the beep now, but no
> matter what numbers I put in for the frequency and duration it doesn't
> change.

[Mark Hammond]
> The Python test suite has the following:
>
> import winsound
> for i in range(100, 2000, 100):
>     winsound.Beep(i, 75)
> print "Hopefully you heard some sounds increasing in frequency!"
>
>
> This does the "right thing" on both Python 2.0 and 2.1a1

LOL!  I never noticed that.  Of course, when you *run* the test suite via
regrtest.py, stdout is captured and merely compared against the canned
"expected stdout" file:

C:\Code\python\dist\src\PCbuild>type ..\lib\test\output\test_winsound
test_winsound
Hopefully you heard some sounds increasing in frequency!

C:\Code\python\dist\src\PCbuild>

So I never saw the msg before.  As a matter of fact, I don't *hear* anything
except a single "ding" when I run test_winsound.  If I stick a
time.sleep(.5) in the test_winsound loop, at least I hear multiple dings,
but they're all the same.

Don't have more time for this now.  Win98SE.  I'm pretty sure the "ding" I
hear is the registered Windows "Default Sound" (ding.wav, on my box) ...
yup!  If I change the Default Sound setting while test_winsound is running,
test_winsound starts playing the new .wav file instead.

May be significant that my box doesn't have an internal speaker --
everything is pumped out to external speakers.




From claird at starbase.neosoft.com  Tue Jan 23 09:34:55 2001
From: claird at starbase.neosoft.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: 23 Jan 2001 08:34:55 -0600
Subject: More comparative language remarks (was: Python as a web server?)
References: <980242697.576973@shelley.paradise.net.nz> <94jngf018sb@news1.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <D3C2570D14CF9957.897A3A19E34114EE.26E0D6CBF07F2BA3@lp.airnews.net>

In article <94jngf018sb at news1.newsguy.com>,
Alex Martelli <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote:
			.
		[wonderful, lucid,
		apposite wisdom--para-
		graph after paragraph
		of it]
			.
			.
>PHP would severely limit your choices, I think (no client-side, and
>I don't know how it could interface a Berkely DBM, or easily build
>server-side images on the fly, etc, etc).  Python seems the ideal
PHP has all these facilities, in fact; the DBM interface
<URL: http://www.php.net/manual/en/ref.dbm.php >, in par-
ticular, is quite good.

Alex is entirely on-target in advising that Python's far
more convenient for client-side work, and considerably 
better suited to the level of complexity that image gener-
ation might eventually encompass.

Oh!  And if Alex comprehends with "client-side" specifi-
cally GUI work--well, that's an area where PHP simply has
no answer (with one exception not germane for this discus-
sion), while Python is the king of GUI bindings.
			.
			.
			.
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at NeoSoft.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://starbase.neosoft.com/~claird/home.html


From teep at inet.co.th  Thu Jan 11 01:41:34 2001
From: teep at inet.co.th (Prateep Siamwalla)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 13:41:34 +0700
Subject: Reflection: Calling Methods Dynamically by Name
References: <93jfur$9rj$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <93jken$pnr$1@news.inet.co.th>

Chad,

You will want to use getattr() and apply()

Try this on the interpreter (apologies if the tabs/spaces don't come out
right):
---------------------------------------------------------------
>>> class MyClass:
...  def FunctionA(self):
...   print 'I am functionA'
...  def FunctionB(self):
...   print 'I am functionB'
...  def FunctionC(self,param1,param2):
...   print 'I am functionC'
...   print 'param1: ',param1
...   print 'param2: ',param2
...
>>>
>>> a = MyClass()
>>> function = getattr(a,'Function'+'A')
>>> function()
I am functionA
>>> function2 = getattr(a,'Function'+'B')
>>> function2()
I am functionB
>>> function3 = getattr(a,'Function'+'C')
>>> apply(function3,('this is param1','this is param2'))
I am functionC
param1: this is param1
param2: this is param2
---------------------------------------------------------

Hope this helps.
teep


<harrc at my-deja.com> wrote in message news:93jfur$9rj$1 at nnrp1.deja.com...
> Question for Guido or language experts:
>
> Does Python have the ability to call methods of a class by name?  For
> example, I have a string: "ProcessData" and the class MyClass has a
> method called ProcessData.  Is there a way I can do something like this:
>
> mc = MyClass()
> str = "ProcessData"
> args = ("Data", 1, 3)
> CallMethodByName(mc, str, args)
>
> or perhaps:
>
> mc = MyClass()
> str = "ProcessData"
> args = ("Data", 1, 3)
> mc.CallMethodByName(str, args)
>
>
> This reflection-esque behavior would be very useful.  Any ideas?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Chad Harrington
>
>
>
> Sent via Deja.com
> http://www.deja.com/




From gregory.p.green at boeing.com  Mon Jan 22 14:40:53 2001
From: gregory.p.green at boeing.com (Greg Green)
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 19:40:53 GMT
Subject: Traversing A Directory For Files
References: <p9xa6.6875$65.40110@newsfeeds.bigpond.com>
Message-ID: <3A6C8CC5.E8C090A@boeing.com>

Ben wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I am looking for examples of a recusive Python algorithm to traverse a
> directory and all subdirectories for files and return them to a list for
> further processing.
> 
> I have something written already ... but it doesn't appear to be that
> eloquant
> 
> Thanks In Advance

Try os.walk in the os module distributed with python.

http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/module-os.path.html

-- 

Greg Green
Advanced Design Systems
Math & Computing Technology
Boeing
(425) 865-2790


From nospam at nospam.com  Mon Jan 15 18:22:15 2001
From: nospam at nospam.com (Tom)
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 23:22:15 GMT
Subject: python compiled to native in less than a year?
References: <mailman.979575676.22737.python-list@python.org> <GqH86.6041$J%.605518@news.flash.net> <G9K86.60439$eB2.5067059@news.infostrada.it>
Message-ID: <HCL86.159804$59.44036512@news3.rdc1.on.home.com>

No, that is incorrect.

IL is fully documented (available on MS/Intel/HP sites), and has been handed
over to a standards body so MS can't patent it or charge any money for it.
Anyone can do anything they want with it - for free.  For the record, they
have also handed over C# and all of the API's for their new environment
except for the (very important) DB and GUI API's.

I am not suggesting that they don't have an angle here.  They, like Sun,
will do anything they can get away with.

As regards Java, the trick is that it isn't similarly standardized, so they
can charge royalties for it whenever they want (ie. after it gets
established).

Tom.

"Giuseppe Bilotta" <oblomov at freemail.it> wrote in message
news:G9K86.60439$eB2.5067059 at news.infostrada.it...
> Knowing M$, at least one of the following will hold :
>
> 1) M$ will not cleanly document IL, making it almost impossible to know it
apporpriately;
> 2) M$ will patent IL, so royalties will have to be paid for its use (aka:
bye-bye, Free Software)
>
> And since we're at it: what's the dirty trick Sun played with Java?
> --
> Giuseppe Bilotta
>
>
> s <slhath at flash.net> wrote in message
GqH86.6041$J%.605518 at news.flash.net...
> > I believe that you are mistaken...the IL is NOT MS specific and is not
tied
> > to any specific platform or chipset.  Some company should easily be able
to
> > take IL and create a compiler that will work on Linux, Unix, Mac, etc.
> >
> > Scott
> >
> > "Oleg Broytmann" <phd at phd.pp.ru> wrote in message
> > news:mailman.979575676.22737.python-list at python.org...
> > > On Mon, 15 Jan 2001, scotth wrote:
> > > > Since the new .NET platform from MS will take all the compatible
.NET
> > > > languages and transform them to an IL (intermediate language ???),
then
> > take
> > > > the IL to native compiled code, this means that python will be
compiled,
> > but
> > > > only for the Windows platform.
> > > >
> > > > Is what I have said correct, or have I missed something?  This would
> > give
> > > > python a huge boost!
> > >
> > > <OFFTOPIC mode="flame">
> > >    I am afraid you are near to be correct. This way M$ is trying to
bound
> > > you to one damned platform. This dirty trick is the answer to Sun's
dirty
> > > tricks with Java.
> > >
> > >    Stay away from M$, it is perfectly dangerous. Whatever is touched
by M$
> > > soon become M$ :( Don't touch M$, too, let the Sun be sad example :(((
> > > </OFFTOPIC>
> > >
> > > Oleg.
> > > ----
> > >      Oleg Broytmann            http://phd.pp.ru/
phd at phd.pp.ru
> > >            Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN.
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>




From joejava at dragonat.net  Mon Jan  8 01:15:50 2001
From: joejava at dragonat.net (Joel Ricker)
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 01:15:50 -0500
Subject: ActivePython Installer for 2.0?
References: <3A595540.9D34A5AA@NONOSpammytheworld.com>
Message-ID: <u%c66.653$_e7.37162@news2.atl>

David Lees wrote in message <3A595540.9D34A5AA at NONOSpammytheworld.com>...

>When I double click on it I get a message that says I need a newer
>version of the Windows Installer service?  I am using Win98SE.  What do
>I need to get this '.msi' extension to install?


It should be here:
http://www.activestate.com/download/contrib/Microsoft/9x/InstMsi.exe


>Anyway, I am up and running again by downloading BeOpenPython2.0 and
>Mark Hammonds Win32all-135.  However, it would be handy for new machines
>to use the single Active Python.


Is Mark Hammonds Win32all-135 the Interactive Windows Developer program?  If
so, that means it is available as a seperate package from ActivePython or
python in general?
--
I have been Perl-Free for 3 Days, 2 Hours, 13 Minutes, and 28 Seconds.
------------------------------------------------------------
Joel Ricker   joejava at dragoncat.net
  Just Another Python Hacker





From glandrum at my-deja.com  Tue Jan  2 14:52:52 2001
From: glandrum at my-deja.com (Greg Landrum)
Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2001 19:52:52 GMT
Subject: GIF Image Size
References: <Wxp46.24381$F_3.940941@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <92tbig$ede$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

In article <Wxp46.24381$F_3.940941 at newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>,
  "Rindolf" <rindolf2 at yahoo.comNOSPAM> wrote:
> Is there any way to find out the dimensions of a GIF image using
python? I
> looked in the language reference and it didn't look like there was.
>

If you are going to be working with GIFs (or any image format for that
matter), you probably want to install PIL:
http://www.pythonware.com/products/pil/index.htm
Once you have that installed, you can easily determine the size of a GIF
as follows:
from Pil import Image
img = Image.open('foo.gif')
print img.size

I hope this helps,
-greg


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From bowman at montana.com  Wed Jan 24 09:42:50 2001
From: bowman at montana.com (bowman)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 07:42:50 -0700
Subject: Python vs Ruby
References: <94mdkd$222e$1@news.adamastor.ac.za>
Message-ID: <SRBb6.9880$d25.63606@newsfeed.slurp.net>

James Lockley <jpl at global.co.za> wrote in message
news:94mdkd$222e$1 at news.adamastor.ac.za...
> Just been reading a "Ruby centric" comparison of Ruby vs Python on:
> http://helium.ruby-lang.org/en/compar.html
> would be interested to hear the Pythonista view....

I switch hit between Perl and Python depending on the phase of the moon. I
haven't seen the reason to replace Perl with Ruby yet. Not to be
anglocentric,  but Ruby seems to be a Japanese phenomenon to a large part. I
can pick my way through German, Italian, and Spanish documentation with more
or less facility, but a Japanese tutorial is above me.

If you want to play with something out of the mainstream, and are on Linux,
try Pike.





From tony at lsl.co.uk  Thu Jan 25 10:01:58 2001
From: tony at lsl.co.uk (Tony J Ibbs (Tibs))
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 15:01:58 -0000
Subject: python-2.1 function attributes
In-Reply-To: <004001c086dd$f2d40710$f05aa8c0@lslp7o.int.lsl.co.uk>
Message-ID: <004101c086df$c4176370$f05aa8c0@lslp7o.int.lsl.co.uk>

Must proofread better...
Must proofread better...

Erm, I wrote:
>         def function(lots,of,args) with {type:"silly",
>                                          size:32}

and so on, when I obviously should have written:
>         def function(lots,of,args) with {type:"silly",
>                                          size:32}:

as I did in the "expansion" example further down.

--
Tony J Ibbs (Tibs)      http://www.tibsnjoan.co.uk/
Give a pedant an inch and they'll take 25.4mm
(once they've established you're talking a post-1959 inch, of course)
My views! Mine! Mine! (Unless Laser-Scan ask nicely to borrow them.)




From mail at mikemccandless.com  Mon Jan  1 17:50:12 2001
From: mail at mikemccandless.com (Michael McCandless)
Date: Mon, 01 Jan 2001 22:50:12 GMT
Subject: stack limits
Message-ID: <3A5109E8.A9C1F9A@mikemccandless.com>

Hello,

I've been using the Misc/find_recursionlimit.py script to see how deeply
I'm allowed to recurse in Python.  The problem is, when I change the
limit at the shell prompt (tcsh), it seems to have no effect on what
that script reports, until the limit drops below 1024 KB.  (My shell
defaults to 65 MB).  Has anyone seen this as well?

Under UNIX, besides the shell's limit or ulimit command, is there some
hidden per-thread stack size, perhaps compiled in by gcc?

(I'm running Python 2.0 on FreeBSD 4.2, compiled with gcc 2.95.2).

Any pointers would be great, thanks,

Mike



From michael at stroeder.com  Sun Jan 21 12:22:11 2001
From: michael at stroeder.com (Michael =?iso-8859-1?Q?Str=F6der?=)
Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 18:22:11 +0100
Subject: Unicode string output
References: <mailman.980094083.22572.python-list@python.org> <m37l3o26ti.fsf@atrus.jesus.cam.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <3A6B1AC3.E4D8582B@stroeder.com>

Michael Hudson wrote:
> 
> "Alexander Kostyrkin" <avkost66 at f4.dion.ne.jp> writes:
> 
> > Surprisingly printing a unicode string that contains a Japanese kanji
> > character raises an exception
> > For example
> >
> >     print u"\u55f4"
> > UnicodeError: ASCII encoding error: ordinal not in range(128)
> >
> 
> print u"\u55f4".encode('kanji')

How about this?

>>> u"\u55f4".encode('utf-8')
'\345\227\264'

Ciao, Michael.


From Randy.L.Kemp at motorola.com  Thu Jan 11 13:23:28 2001
From: Randy.L.Kemp at motorola.com (Kemp Randy-W18971)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 12:23:28 -0600
Subject: Of the topic -- Windows question
Message-ID: <69BC4C6AE83ED311BC9400805FA7B14AF84D86@il93exp01.css.mot.com>

Since some of you are windows com programmers, maybe you can tell me what this program is.

I have a home build computer running and AMD motherboard, with a 1 gigahertz processor, and Windows ME.

After windows boots up, and before the icons are displayed, the system stalls sometimes with a blank blue screen.

If I do a control, alt, delete, I get a window that it's running a program called Cmdinist.  If I cancel it, it boots up as normal.

1.  Does anyone know what Cmdinist does?
2. Has anyone else encountered a program like I have? 



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Jan  5 10:04:57 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 16:04:57 +0100
Subject: Migrating to perl?
References: <3Fa56.4580$of7.216286@news1.atl> <mailman.978670867.31055.python-list@python.org> <V%c56.4648$of7.221797@news1.atl> <BLj56.3858$XZ5.132068@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com> <6Nk56.822$4Z.64804@news2.atl>
Message-ID: <934nse02oal@news2.newsguy.com>

"Joel Ricker" <joejava at dragonat.net> wrote in message
news:6Nk56.822$4Z.64804 at news2.atl...
    [snip]
> Speaking of which, saw the entries of Obfuscated Code in the FAQ.  Whats
the
> c.l.py equivalent of "Just Another Perl Hacker"?

    print "Just another Python hacker"

(Python is case-sensitive, so one would not capitalize needlessly, and
it emphasizes the "one obviously correct way", with straightforwardness
and simplicity as clear goals...).


Alex





From rerla at channing.harvard.edu  Sat Jan 20 13:57:04 2001
From: rerla at channing.harvard.edu (Ross Lazarus)
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 18:57:04 GMT
Subject: crypt module for windows?
Message-ID: <4cla6.2291$Jw.511062@typhoon2.ba-dsg.net>

I'm sure I once had one for python 1.52 under windows? I've looked in
all the usual places. Yes, I know it's not usually relevant, but I need
it to access *nix ldap passwords (which are stored crypted) from a win2k
box. Will swap to python2 if that will help..

Advice or even better, a .pyd file appreciated..


From ljohnson at resgen.com  Thu Jan 18 17:06:31 2001
From: ljohnson at resgen.com (Lyle Johnson)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 16:06:31 -0600
Subject: Python & GUI?
References: <3A674896.C7E52247@crepido.com>
Message-ID: <t6eq2goc7qa52@corp.supernews.com>

You might want to check out FXPy, the Python bindings to the FOX GUI
toolkit:

    http://fxpy.sourceforge.net

Lyle

"Marco Seiri?" <marco at crepido.com> wrote in message
news:3A674896.C7E52247 at crepido.com...
> Are there any GUI components or ways to build a GUI in
> Python that contains all the widgets that one would expect to
> find in a VB or Java environment. Can you (easily) build things
> like explorer like applications and such...
>
> /M
>




From one61803 at my-deja.com  Sat Jan  6 01:18:11 2001
From: one61803 at my-deja.com (one61803 at my-deja.com)
Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2001 06:18:11 GMT
Subject: Question about IDLE
References: <9364b7$qse$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <H%w56.180$Zf.836@newsfeed.slurp.net>
Message-ID: <936db1$1f0$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

Yes, I've tried setting idle.font, idle.fontFamily, idle.fontList, etc. Also,
I've looked through the source code for all occurences of the word "font" and
have not identified any sections that actually specify a font for idle (other
than the one for windows).

Robert


In article <H%w56.180$Zf.836 at newsfeed.slurp.net>,
  "bowman" <bowman at montana.com> wrote:
>
> <one61803 at my-deja.com> wrote in message news:9364b7$qse$1 at nnrp1.deja.com...
> >
> > I've been trying out the IDLE IDE for python and the fonts it uses are
> > extremely ugly.
> > Does anyone else have this problem? If so, how were you able to solve it?
>
> i'm not running Linux at the moment, so can't check it, but have you tried
> setting the font or
> fontList in an app-defaults file or in .Xdefaults?
>
>


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From danielk at aracnet.com  Mon Jan 29 08:55:22 2001
From: danielk at aracnet.com (Daniel Klein)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 05:55:22 -0800
Subject: Does anyone have python on Win98???
References: <XY1d6.9583$KP3.3117045@news3.rdc1.on.home.com> <952nmn$ndh$1@news.inet.co.th>
Message-ID: <ldta7t4tfhkr4ui5s6tp47b1bs95n766ac@4ax.com>

On Mon, 29 Jan 2001 10:25:45 +0700, "Prateep Siamwalla" <teep at inet.co.th>
wrote:

>["python" needs to be in your path]
>i just added this one line into my  c:\autoexec.bat
>SET PATH=C:\PYTHON20
>(yours seem to be c:\Programming\Python2 -- you might have to do that funny
>dos formatting with the name c:\progra~2 or something. After you edit your
>autoexec.bat, you'll need to restart the machine.)

You might want to consider setting this as

	set PATH=%PATH%;C:\PYTHON20

so as not to eliminate any existing settings.

Daniel Klein



From barry at digicool.com  Sun Jan 28 01:06:58 2001
From: barry at digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 01:06:58 -0500
Subject: . Python 2.1 function attributes
References: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0101271158190.3501-100000@y.glue.umd.edu>
	<Pine.GSO.4.21.0101270135190.7677-100000@y.glue.umd.edu>
	<mailman.980593892.725.python-list@python.org>
	<$5A+ZwAGjtc6EwE0@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
	<14962.62953.304511.523826@anthem.wooz.org>
	<mailman.980613639.23439.python-list@python.org>
	<mailman.980617472.28020.python-list@python.org>
	<Pine.GSO.4.21.0101271303540.3501-100000@y.glue.umd.edu>
	<3A7333F5.DA1E367B@mail.com>
Message-ID: <14963.46850.588826.37921@anthem.wooz.org>

>>>>> "JD" == Jan Dries <jdries at mail.com> writes:

    JD> On the other hand, adding features just because someone has a
    JD> patch for it is just as bad an idea as adding features by
    JD> vote.

Absolutely, and trust me, as someone who's probably had more patches
and suggestions rejected than accepted, it's all part of the process.
You get an idea, create a patch, play with it to see how and if it
works, and throw it over the transom.  Some make it, most don't.  Big
deal.  When I design my own language, it'll be perfect, and it'll have
a 100% completely satisfied user base <1 of 1 wink>.

    JD> Perhaps if "print >> file, something" were written as "print
    JD> to file, something" there wouldn't be so much controversy over
    JD> it, even though it wouldn't be doing more or less than it does
    JD> today.

We tried it.  Using an identifier in that spot caused irreconcilable
syntactic ambiguities, so we had to pick a non-identifier.  After
extensive market research <wink> `>>' was picked because it had the
highest correlation to `to' in the test group of damn crazy followers
of the horn and demented bass players posing as hackers until the
record deal comes through.  Besides, `>>' stands out much better than
`to' does in practice, which you want (really).

Seriously, I've written a boatload of code that used the stdout
switcheroo idiom and it's just plain unweildy for anything more than
Usenet post examples.  Extended print is clean, nicely polymorphic,
and fully gulped in a glance.  Rewriting Mailman's CGI driver script
to use extended print sealed it for me.  It simplified the code,
shorted it, and made it more robust.

and-if-that's-not-an-excuse-to-reject-it-i-don't-know-what-is-ly y'rs,
-Barry



From aa8vb at yahoo.com  Mon Jan 22 11:57:45 2001
From: aa8vb at yahoo.com (Randall Hopper)
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 11:57:45 -0500
Subject: [OT] Shared Libraries (was Re: Deployment woes (was: I will kill
 my Python))
In-Reply-To: <20010120104901.6A62CA83E@darjeeling.zadka.site.co.il>; from
 moshez@zadka.site.co.il on Sat, Jan 20, 2001 at 12:49:01PM +0200
References: <pr3a6.945$eI2.263837@ruti.visi.com>
 <mailman.979852022.13720.python-list@python.org> <947r18$rdt$1@news.online.de>
 <WV0a6.745$eI2.252250@ruti.visi.com>
 <4DE7F9DB9399A3C1.D96FC6EFB3F2391E.88AD1775E4555FCA@lp.airnews.net>
 <pr3a6.945$eI2.263837@ruti.visi.com>
 <20010120104901.6A62CA83E@darjeeling.zadka.site.co.il>
Message-ID: <20010122115745.A6348256@vislab.epa.gov>

Moshe Zadka:
 |experience. Here the situation differs between Unices as much as it does
 |between Windows and UNIX, and has nothing to do with the implementation:
 |even different distribution of Linux handle it with varying quality.
 |
 |Basically, the problem is thorny, the solution is hairy, and the only
 |saving grace of Linux is that the packages have concepts of dependancies.

Have you worked with Sun's, SGI's, or FreeBSD's package managers?

 |Other Unices seldom get much software installed on them: either
 |commercial software ... or GNU software, ... with libraries being few and
 |far between.

I can't speak to your experience, but I can say that in mine this is most
definitely false.  I've worked in a number of predominantly Solaris and
predominantly IRIX shops.  There has always been much commercial software
installed (as you might suspect), most of which isn't even available for
Linux.  As well as bunches of open source/freeware/shareware
apps/utils/libs installed as well.  Most of it's been ported to the 
common UNIXes.

-- 
Randall Hopper
aa8vb at yahoo.com



From tyler at tylereaves.com  Tue Jan 16 11:11:41 2001
From: tyler at tylereaves.com (Tyler Eaves)
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 16:11:41 GMT
Subject: My first script (so go easy on me!)
References: <B689D7B0.8ABF%bobhicks@adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <3a647234.7562087@news.earthlink.net>

A real problem I notice is this block of code right here. The problem
is that for example, the following would all restart the daemon:
yes
heck no
nope
etc
basically, anything more than 2 characters long

>if len(answer) > 2:
>    print r
>elif len(answer) < 2:
>    print w
>else:
>    print n
>
A much better way to do this would be:

import string
answer=string.lower(answer)
if answer=='yes':
	print r
elif answer=='no':
	print w
else:
	print n


From gbolton at wanadoo.fr  Wed Jan 24 16:21:59 2001
From: gbolton at wanadoo.fr (Gawain Bolton)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 22:21:59 +0100
Subject: os.path.normpath()
Message-ID: <3A6F4777.60A82F5B@wanadoo.fr>

I'm using Python v1.5.2 on Sun and Linux and have noticed what, to me,
is strange behaviour with the os.path.normpath() function.

Namely, I noticed the following:

1. os.path.normpath('///A///B///C///D') gives '///A/B/C/D'

and

2. os.path.normpath('/../A/../A/B') gives '/../A/B'

I'm sure I'm not the first one to notice this, and so I'm assuming this
is "correct".  Could anyone please explain:

A) Why leading slashes are not collapsed into a single slash.
B) Why a leading /../ is not collapsed.

I'm warning you though, I will not buy any platform dependent answers
since the normpath() funciton is implemented in posixpath.py module
which is tailored for POSIX systems (i.e. Unices).

Thanks a bunch,


Gawain




From jkndeja at my-deja.com  Tue Jan  9 04:17:59 2001
From: jkndeja at my-deja.com (jkndeja at my-deja.com)
Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2001 09:17:59 GMT
Subject: escape sequences and string comparisons
References: <93cboe$ctj$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <slrn95jfdi.2b2.scarblac@pino.selwerd.nl>
Message-ID: <93el06$aab$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

Hi Remco, thanks for your reply:
>
> Simply using repr (or `` backquotes) gives the string as a string
literal,
> with the necessary things escaped. The only thing is that if there
are '
> quotes in the string, they aren't escaped, but instead "" quotes are
used
> to surround the string (and vice versa).

This doesn't really work for me - the 'necessary things' aren't the
ones I require:

>>> repr(']')

"']'"

whereas I'd want this character to be escaped "\]" in order to be used
within an RE.

For the moment I'm using my own version of re.escape(), which looks for
a set of characters and escapes them if found. It seems a little
inelegant though. My puzzle remains: My previous experience of REs
(from use in editors rather than, eg, P*RL) has led me to the heuristic
'it does no harm to escape a character; if the escaped form has no
special meaning, the backslash will be dropped'. Python doesn't seem to
follow this. I will investigate further...

    Regards
    Jon N


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From mwh21 at cam.ac.uk  Fri Jan 26 09:57:46 2001
From: mwh21 at cam.ac.uk (Michael Hudson)
Date: 26 Jan 2001 14:57:46 +0000
Subject: Umlauts revisited: Now they prevent program from running
References: <94rt05$tbe$1@newsreaderg1.core.theplanet.net> <94s2mm$1h$1@newsreaderg1.core.theplanet.net>
Message-ID: <m31ytqxswl.fsf@atrus.jesus.cam.ac.uk>

"Franz GEIGER" <fgeiger at datec.at> writes:

> Wow! Both of yours - Alex and Michael - did the trick! Thanks a lot!

Pleasure.

> Is there another trick to switch globally to this encoding? Or do I have to
> check for '\xyz' characters and then encode them?

You can call sys.setdefaultencoding in your sitecustomize.py (you have
to call this function right at the very start of your application so
it's deleted in site.py).

> For now I do a try. If an exception is catched I call the encode method.

It would be better to call the .encode method every time.

> Is this the way doing it _always_ if umlauts could come across my way?
> That'd be cumbersome because the German language is teeming with umlauts
> (o.k., carried it too far ;-))

Probably writing yourself a sitecustomize.py is the way to go.

Cheers,
M.

-- 
  Just point your web browser at http://www.python.org/search/ and
  look for "program", "doesn't", "work", or "my". Whenever you find
  someone else whose program didn't work, don't do what they
  did. Repeat as needed.    -- Tim Peters, on python-help, 16 Jun 1998


From Daniel.Kinnaer at AdValvas.be  Sat Jan  6 14:32:19 2001
From: Daniel.Kinnaer at AdValvas.be (Daniel)
Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2001 19:32:19 GMT
Subject: How to store the contents of a file into a list?
Message-ID: <3a576f75.41616667@news.skynet.be>

Hi guys. As a newbie exercise, I've been trying the following : 

l1 = []
l2 = ['rec11','rec12','rec13']
l3 = ['rec21','rec22','rec23']
l1.append(l2)
l1.append(l3)

l1 now is [['rec11', 'rec12', 'rec13'], ['rec21', 'rec22', 'rec23']]

I've been trying to do the same when reading these records from a file
(The file contains 2 lines : 
rec11,rec12,rec13
rec21,rec22,rec23)

What needs to be done to obtain the same l1 as above? I've been trying
various ways but my l1 always reads ['rec11, rec12, rec13', 'rec21,
rec22, rec23'] instead of [['rec11', 'rec12', 'rec13'], ['rec21',
'rec22', 'rec23']].  What am I doing wrong?  All help greatly
appreciated.

Thanks

Daniel


From becker.hoffmann at comcity-online.de  Sat Jan  6 17:15:44 2001
From: becker.hoffmann at comcity-online.de (Uwe Hoffmann)
Date: Sat,  6 Jan 2001 22:15:44 +0000 ()
Subject: Fwd: Recompilation of Vpython
Message-ID: <20010106221544.3BD3D4A867@riesenlamel>

Hi !

Nils Wagner wrote:


>I tried to recompile Vpython
>
>http://cil.andrew.cmu.edu/projects/visual/index.html
>
>for Linux (Kernel 2.2.16).
>Python version : Python 2.0 (#1, Oct 16 2000, 18:10:03)
>[GCC 2.95.2 19991024 (release)] on linux2


You must install gtkglarea (
http://www.student.oulu.fi/~jlof/gtkglarea/download/gtkglarea-1.2.2.tar.gz
) and it's dependencies (glib,gtk,... OpenGL Library (e.g.: Mesa)).

Regards 
	Uwe




From fredrik at effbot.org  Thu Jan 18 17:30:13 2001
From: fredrik at effbot.org (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 22:30:13 GMT
Subject: Using python to call .bat files-- possible??
References: <3A676D38.5D972E12@mail.uct.ac.za>
Message-ID: <V7K96.7180$Qb7.1064061@newsb.telia.net>

"James" wrote:
> am hoping to use a python script to control a process that at the moment
> is run by a set of 10 windows batch files.
>
> was hoping i could write a script that would automate my process and let
> me iterate it until the result was with tolerance...
>
> is it possible to call other external programs from python?

import os
os.system("command")

Other options include os.popen, os.spawn, etc.  See the
library reference for more info.

Cheers /F




From fredrik at effbot.org  Thu Jan 25 15:27:11 2001
From: fredrik at effbot.org (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 20:27:11 GMT
Subject: Tkinter vs wxPython: your opinions?
References: <3A6F899F.E164F628@home.com> <hvZb6.2156$_8.33280@news1.rdc1.bc.home.com> <slrn9710o1.73.cerutti@fiad06.norwich.edu> <iF%b6.9208$Qb7.1327643@newsb.telia.net> <slrn9712f3.1f.cerutti@fiad06.norwich.edu>
Message-ID: <z_%b6.9215$Qb7.1328910@newsb.telia.net>

Neil Cerutti wrote:

> Sorry.

no problem!

> I'm still proud that I spelled your name correctly.

that's appreciated (but I don't really mind, as long
as you don't call me Fred ;-)

(btw, if you skip over to amazon, you'll find a book by
authors Frederick Lundh and Frederik Lundh...)

Cheers /F

PS. The first Tkinter 3000 WCK alpha will be out next
week.  Stay tuned.




From stale at siteloft.com  Wed Jan 24 05:17:16 2001
From: stale at siteloft.com (stale at siteloft.com)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 11:17:16 +0100
Subject: ftplib problem/question
Message-ID: <94ma1q$5qt$1@oslo-nntp.eunet.no>

I am writing a small ftp client and have some problems/questionsabout ftplib.
When i store files on a server and try to send an abort command,
i get a socket error, but when i retrieve a file from a ftp server i have no
problems. I have written a method which is identical to the 
ftplib.FTP.abort method, but it sends a STAT command, the same 
problem occures. Although i get abort/stat successful response, the 
ftp object locks in some way. I can still send certain commands like 
pwd/cwd/pasv, but no commands where we need to send data over 
the socket like LIST/RETR/STOR. I get two different Socket errors 
when sending a STAT or ABORT command during STOR: 
104, Connection reset by peer.  32, Broken pipe

Does anyone know how to avoid these errors, or how to deal with them ?
Thanks in advance.

St?le P.

Log of a abort command during file transfer:
*cmd* 'TYPE I'
*put* 'TYPE I\015\012'
*get* '200 Type set to I.\015\012'
*resp* '200 Type set to I.'
*cmd* 'PASV'
*put* 'PASV\015\012'
*get* '227 Entering Passive Mode (*,*,*,*,*,*)\015\012'
*resp* '227 Entering Passive Mode (*,*,*,*,*,*)'
*cmd* 'STOR beopen-python-2.0.tar.gz'
*put* 'STOR beopen-python-2.0.tar.gz\015\012'
*get* '150 Opening BINARY mode data connection for beopen-python-2.0.tar.gz.\015\012'
*resp* '150 Opening BINARY mode data connection for beopen-python-2.0.tar.gz.'
*put urgent* 'ABOR\015\012'
*get* '426 Transfer aborted. Data connection closed.\015\012'

Error from ftplib.all_errors in storebinary (32, 'Broken pipe')
*get* '226 Abort successful\015\012'
*resp* '226 Abort successful'


From akuchlin at mems-exchange.org  Mon Jan 15 22:20:38 2001
From: akuchlin at mems-exchange.org (Andrew Kuchling)
Date: 15 Jan 2001 22:20:38 -0500
Subject: adding the XML to 2.0 to be a mistake? 
References: <mailman.979611383.15529.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3d8zocuqrd.fsf@kronos.cnri.reston.va.us>

John Schmitt <jschmitt at vmlabs.com> writes:
> Pardon the ignorance, but where is the mistake?  Is it in adding PyXML to
> 2.0 or is it the way it was done?  Is there no development strategy that
> makes this less of a burden?  If a previous release of PyXML had been added
> to 2.0, would you still consider it a mistake?

Duplicating complex code in two different projects, so that they have
to be kept in sync manually at the cost of time and effort, is the
mistake.  Another one is tying a fast-moving project such as PyXML to
the slower releases of Python; Python 2.0 was released on October 16,
and there have been two PyXML releases (0.6.2 and 0.6.3) since then.

--amk



From m.wilson at bibliocraft.com  Thu Jan 25 18:22:56 2001
From: m.wilson at bibliocraft.com (Mark Wilson)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 23:22:56 -0000
Subject: Crash using Python 2.0 Extension
Message-ID: <016101c08725$df643540$2a824ac3@mwdell1>

Fredrik Lundh wrote:
>Py_INCREF(Py_None); /* get another reference to None */
>return Py_None; /* return an owned reference */

For me, this became tiresome, and I ended up with this:

inline PyObject*  Py_INCNONE( void )
    {
    Py_INCREF( Py_None );
    return( Py_None );
    }

as in:

PyObject*    FuncWhichReturnsNone( ...)
    {
    blah;
    blah;
    return( Py_INCNONE() );
    }

Just a small idea.

Mark








From grante at visi.com  Sat Jan 13 15:09:42 2001
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 20:09:42 GMT
Subject: brace nanny
References: <93nsfk02gdu@drn.newsguy.com> <mailman.979344735.22732.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <aC286.15$I12.8499@ruti.visi.com>

In article <mailman.979344735.22732.python-list at python.org>, Issac Trotts wrote:

>> Does anybody know of a free/open "brace nanny" for C/C++,
>> preferably written in Python?  (By "brace nanny", of course,
>> I mean a gizmo that finds inconsistencies between the
>> indentation level and the braces.  I've had to change bracing
>> style lately, so I need a little help with that.)

>www.vim.org
>
>If you turn on syntax highlighting, it will show the mismatched
>braces in red.

It actually compares braces and indentation level to detect
style errors?  (That's what was asked for, wasn't it?)

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  Did I SELL OUT yet??
                                  at               
                               visi.com            


From boud at rempt.xs4all.nl  Thu Jan 25 17:36:09 2001
From: boud at rempt.xs4all.nl (Boudewijn Rempt)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 23:36:09 +0100 (CET)
Subject: Unicode string output
In-Reply-To: <3A702550.AEE6BE6E@lemburg.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0101252329370.1185-100000@calcifer.valdyas.org>

On Thu, 25 Jan 2001, M.-A. Lemburg wrote:
> 
> Well, you can manage multi-user settings easily by providing
> a special sitecustomize.py module, so I guess that's a non-issue.
> 

Perhaps - but it is often the application, not the user that
knows about encodings. I can easily imagine my small Chinese
editor to work in Big5 for someone from Taiwan, but in Unicode
for me - an application-level default, and if we use the same
computer, a user-level default. 

> The problem with having a per application setting for the
> default encoding is that this would cause code to be written which
> may rely on one specific default encoding. It is much better
> to write such assumption into the code itself than to rely on
> default settings.
> 

But setting an application-level default _is_ putting the assumption
in the code, instead of in the system. Now you get apps that count
on the system default being us-ascii...

> I agree though, that we will need to put some more work into
> making streams and other interfaces more Unicode aware and to
> simplify those interfaces. In theory you could e.g. redirect
> stdin and stdout through codecs, but in practice this currently
> doesn't work well together with "print" due to the complicated
> machinery in the Python interpreter.
> 

One other example is PyQt - the conversion between QString (Unicode
in itself) and Python strings goes via the default codec, meaning
us-ascii for most installations. Again, technical details seem
to make it impossible or at least difficult to alter that, but setting
an application level default makes it easy to work with.


> The same goes for making the Python standard lib more Unicode
> aware. There's still a lot to do ... we could need some sponsors :)
> 

I'd help if I could, but currently I'm a bit overworked as it is,
with completing Kura, writing something publicable on Jython, and
of course, coding Java for a living. On the whole, though, I'm pretty
content with the Python Unicode support - and I've never had a 
problem with my sitecustomize.py file and the saved copy of
setdefaultencoding. But then, I don't switch encodings during the
lifetime of the application.

Boudewijn Rempt  | http://www.valdyas.org




From fredrik at effbot.org  Wed Jan  3 03:52:02 2001
From: fredrik at effbot.org (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 08:52:02 GMT
Subject: why no "do : until"?
References: <92jj3j$ff7$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <slrn94shbe.150.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <X8s36.2731$Qb7.305339@newsb.telia.net> <slrn94smds.150.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <FOt36.17$vd1.2224@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com> <slrn94t1vj.150.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <3A4E95FD.D6C737A7@engcorp.com> <slrn94tqkh.150.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <tpr46.7782$4c.597534@ruti.visi.com> <slrn954h6p.rgv.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <3A52AD6A.62D043A2@engcorp.com> <slrn955o7d.t0c.grey@teleute.rpglink.com>
Message-ID: <SKB46.3429$Qb7.414130@newsb.telia.net>

Steve Lamb wrote:
> I think my favorite was that one shouldn't init variables to arbitrary
> values.

In my dictionary, "arbitrary" means:

    "based on or determined by individual preference rather
    than by necessity or the intrinsic nature of something"

> That's the whole point of initing a variable, to set to to a known,
> arbitrary, value.

Steve's not only smarter than me (if I had an IQ of 5 million, I'd
also be smarter than me), he's obviously also using a different
dictionary.  Or are all these really "arbitrary" initial values:

    count = 0 # nothing yet

    stack = [] # it's empty

    port = 21 # default FTP port

    file = None # haven't opened it yet

    temperature = 25 # no, it's not 25 degrees now, but if
    # I don't initialize it to this, my code won't work.  don't
    # forget to change this if the test 200 lines below do
    # change.  and yes, if my program claims it's 25 degrees
    # outside (or whatever this variable is set to), it might
    # be a bug.  or maybe it isn't.  you have been warned.
    # you're happy you read the comments, aren't you?

All real programmers already know the difference, of course.

stupid-ly yrs /F




From scherrey at innoverse.com  Thu Jan  4 17:51:29 2001
From: scherrey at innoverse.com (Benjamin Scherrey)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 17:51:29 -0500
Subject: JPython 2.0 Anyone???
Message-ID: <932v2b0rpg@news2.newsguy.com>

Is there any 2.0 support going on for JPython? It seems that there's not a 
lot of new development going on in this area. I happen to be using some 
python 2.0 features and Jpython doesn't like 2.0 compiled libraries. I get:
File "/usr/local/lib/python2.0/site.py", line 63
        dir = os.path.join(*paths)
        invalid syntax
I presume that until 2.0 support is implemented that I'm out of luck? If 
so, how long til I'm back in luck do you expect? :-)

        thanx & later,

                Ben Scherrey



From fabrice.n at home.com  Sun Jan 28 18:30:19 2001
From: fabrice.n at home.com (shaka)
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 23:30:19 GMT
Subject: Anyone get python on win98??
References: <WXZc6.8032$KP3.2632221@news3.rdc1.on.home.com> <Sd_c6.15114$fe1.211288@news20.bellglobal.com>
Message-ID: <fY1d6.9581$KP3.3115447@news3.rdc1.on.home.com>

It just doesn't work: it gives me an error message like:

File "<stdin>", line 1
    c:\programming\python20>python hello.py
     ^
SyntaxError: invalid syntax

so what do I do???



> From the command line type:
>
> C:\programming\python20> python script.py
>
> --
> <==================================>
> Bryan Mongeau
> Lead Developer, Director
> eEvolved Real-Time Technologies Inc.
> www.eevolved.com
> <==================================>
>
> "No, this trick won't work...How on earth are you ever going to explain in
> terms of chemistry and physics so important a biological phenomenon as
> first love?"-- Einstein
>




From moshez at zadka.site.co.il  Tue Jan 16 22:33:48 2001
From: moshez at zadka.site.co.il (Moshe Zadka)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 05:33:48 +0200 (IST)
Subject: httplib and cookies
In-Reply-To: <mty9wbl77v.fsf@astron.berkeley.edu>
References: <mty9wbl77v.fsf@astron.berkeley.edu>
Message-ID: <20010117033348.CE55AA828@darjeeling.zadka.site.co.il>

On 16 Jan 2001 09:47:32 -0800, Johann Hibschman <johann at physics.berkeley.edu> wrote:
> Hi folks, webby question here.
> 
> Is there a way I can get httplib to handle cookie setting and requests
> from the server?

Cookies are sent with a "Set-Cookie" header. You'll have to parse this
(yourself: if the cookie is simple, you can use crude tricks), and then
send this back in a "Cookie" header. You can even do it with 
urllib.FancyURLopener, just use the .addheader() method (but be aware that if 
there are redirects involved, you're probably better off using URLopener
and handling the redirects yourself)
-- 
Moshe Zadka <sig at zadka.site.co.il>
This is a signature anti-virus. 
Please stop the spread of signature viruses!



From b012414 at mail.dvz.fh-koeln.de  Tue Jan 23 04:52:14 2001
From: b012414 at mail.dvz.fh-koeln.de (Stephan Effelsberg)
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 10:52:14 +0100
Subject: unpack sequence to tuple?
References: <94j6j1$3na$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <3A6D544E.B5D9A80E@mail.dvz.fh-koeln.de>


noahspurrier at my-deja.com schrieb:

> I want to easily read arguments in a sequence into separate variables.
> Basically, I want to use a Per1 idiom and do this:
>
>     (cmd, host, user, key) = tuple(sys.argv)
>
> The problem is that I cannot be sure how long sys.argv is.
> If it's too short then tuple() fails with:
>
>     ValueError: unpack tuple of wrong size
>
> It would be cool if the extra tuple items just got set to None.

1. There's no need to write tuple(...), sys.argv is a list and can be use
as this.
2. If you want the missing elements be None then you can write:
    cmd, host, user, key = sys.argv + (4 - len(sys.argv))*[None]
where 4 is the number of elements you want to have in total.
3. Or:
    cmd, host, user, key = (sys.argv + 4*[None])[:4]
This appends several (4 in this case) None elements to sys.argv and slices
it down
to 4 elements afterwards. This also protects you if sys.argv is too long.
4. If you want other default values than None:
    default = [ 'rm -rf *', 'myhost', 'me', 42]
    argv = sys.argv + default[len(sys.argv):]
    cmd, host, user, key = argv[:4]
This should give you default values for missing elements and protection
from
too long sequences.




From thomas at xs4all.net  Tue Jan 30 04:45:04 2001
From: thomas at xs4all.net (Thomas Wouters)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 10:45:04 +0100
Subject: PyArg_Parse vs. PyArg_ParseTuple?
In-Reply-To: <20010130104159.D962@xs4all.nl>; from thomas@xs4all.net on Tue, Jan 30, 2001 at 10:41:59AM +0100
References: <poYc6.30$X6.23266@ruti.visi.com> <BLEOJGEMBNBNEAKMIFDHAEOBPHAA.dbrueck@edgix.com> <20010130104159.D962@xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <20010130104504.E962@xs4all.nl>

On Tue, Jan 30, 2001 at 10:41:59AM +0100, Thomas Wouters wrote:
> On Mon, Jan 29, 2001 at 10:09:32AM -0700, Dave Brueck wrote:
> 
> > Hopefully someone will correct me if I'm too far off..
> 
> You're not too far off. PyArg_Parse isn't documented because it is obsolete.

I meant to say 'deprecated', since the Python distribution itself still uses
it, even ;) None the less,

> Don't use it. 

Don't use it.  :)

-- 
Thomas Wouters <thomas at xs4all.net>

Hi! I'm a .signature virus! copy me into your .signature file to help me spread!



From moshez at zadka.site.co.il  Fri Jan  5 19:53:32 2001
From: moshez at zadka.site.co.il (Moshe Zadka)
Date: Sat,  6 Jan 2001 02:53:32 +0200 (IST)
Subject: Migrating to perl?
In-Reply-To: <6Nk56.822$4Z.64804@news2.atl>
References: <6Nk56.822$4Z.64804@news2.atl>, <3Fa56.4580$of7.216286@news1.atl> <mailman.978670867.31055.python-list@python.org> <V%c56.4648$of7.221797@news1.atl> <BLj56.3858$XZ5.132068@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <20010106005332.54FBFA84F@darjeeling.zadka.site.co.il>

On Fri, 5 Jan 2001, "Joel Ricker" <joejava at dragonat.net> wrote:

> Whats the
> c.l.py equivalent of "Just Another Perl Hacker"?

My own is

print "Just Another Python Hacker"

readable-isn't-it-ly y'rs, Z.
-- 
Moshe Zadka <sig at zadka.site.co.il>
This is a signature anti-virus. 
Please stop the spread of signature viruses!



From fredrik at effbot.org  Thu Jan 18 18:31:18 2001
From: fredrik at effbot.org (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 23:31:18 GMT
Subject: Testing for is-kind-of relationships (at runtime)
References: <3A6779A4.E9315EB1@nrc.ca>
Message-ID: <a1L96.7186$Qb7.1066900@newsb.telia.net>

Alain Desilets wrote:
> For example, suppose x is an instance of A which is a subclass of B
> which is a subclass of C. I want to be able to ascertain at run time
> that x is a descendant of class C.

assert isinstance(x, C)

Cheers /F




From ommadawn at club-internet.fr  Wed Jan 10 10:42:07 2001
From: ommadawn at club-internet.fr (Christophe Prevost)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 15:42:07 -0000
Subject: Problems with zipfile module...
References: <93ha6j$ca6$1@reader1.imaginet.fr> <93hdis0128r@news2.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <93hsbs$gjl$1@reader1.imaginet.fr>

"Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com> a ?crit dans le message news:
93hdis0128r at news2.newsguy.com...
> "Christophe Prevost" <ommadawn at club-internet.fr> wrote in message
> news:93ha6j$ca6$1 at reader1.imaginet.fr...
>     [snip]
> >    backup = zipfile.ZipFile(zip, "w", "ZIP_DEFLATED")
>
> Change to:
>     backup = zipfile.ZipFile(zip, "w", zipfile.ZIP_DEFLATED)
>
> i.e., the option is NOT to be passed as a string, but rather
> as a numeric 'constant' which is defined in module zipfile.

Thank you Alex!




From zeitlin at seth.lpthe.jussieu.fr  Mon Jan 22 12:58:15 2001
From: zeitlin at seth.lpthe.jussieu.fr (Vadim Zeitlin)
Date: 22 Jan 2001 17:58:15 GMT
Subject: wxPython
References: <mailman.980180965.13487.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrn96p0iu.rlh.zeitlin@seth.lpthe.jussieu.fr>

On Mon, 22 Jan 2001 11:32:56 -0500, Mike Brenner <mikeb at mitre.org> wrote:
>If anyone knows how to cut and paste bits strong to/from the screen, I

 I'm not sure I really understand what are you trying to do, but if you want
to read the pixels of a window, just use wxDC::Blit().

 Regards,
VZ

-- 
GCS/GM d? H+ s++:-- p2 au--- a- w+ v C+++ UBLS+++ P- L++ N++ E--- W++++ M? V--
-po+ R++ G`` !tv b+++ D--- e++++ u++ h--- f+ r++ n- y?


From never at freemail.hu  Sun Jan  7 10:07:05 2001
From: never at freemail.hu (Hever, Zsolt)
Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2001 16:07:05 +0100
Subject: [ANN] Every.py Chat
Message-ID: <3A588619.563C1ACB@freemail.hu>

Every.py Chat is a HTML, JavaScript (Cookie) and Python based very
simple chat program.

Features:
The message board does not blink as the HTML code refreshes itself. It
is refreshed, if there is a new message, so the messages are browsable.

I have tested it on Linux and Win98 under Netscape and Internet Explorer
and hope it works on other platforms and browsers as well.

Any comment or critique is welcomed.

Download:

in tar and gzip format:
http://www.bagoly.matavnet.hu/download/chat.tar.gz
in zip format: 
http://www.bagoly.matavnet.hu/download/chat.zip

You can test and see it online at: 
http://www.bagoly.matavnet.hu/chat/felegyhazi/eindex.html

Meet Eliza at: 
http://www.bagoly.matavnet.hu/chat/eliza/eindex.html

This is an adaptation of therapist.py program by Joseph Strout
(Artifical Intelligence in Python) for CGI.

Zsolt Hever




From danielk at aracnet.com  Thu Jan 11 22:26:02 2001
From: danielk at aracnet.com (Daniel Klein)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 19:26:02 -0800
Subject: Defining a new exception with multiple args
References: <gnir5t80r7asgcp36jtssum2mspk5i5h4d@4ax.com> <6xl76.757$mD5.9904@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <ldts5t4f5sn14qg8sjsisi4k5lurdfc6gk@4ax.com>

On Thu, 11 Jan 2001 11:50:40 -0500, "Steve Holden" <sholden at holdenweb.com>
wrote:

[snip]
>> Why is it showing '<unprintable instance object>' instead of the arguments passed?
>>
>Because it can't print instance objects?
>
>Instead of just raising the exception, raise it in a way which allows you to
>trap it. In a try ... except, the except can take just an exception (or, I
>believe, a tuple of acceptable exceptions) or it can also take a name, which
>will be bound to the exception raised. You can then use this name to access
>the exception object and get at its insides:
>
>>>> try:
>...  raise RecordNotFoundException, ("file", "record")
>... except RecordNotFoundException, x:
>...  print "File:", x.filename, "record:", x.recordid
>...
>File: file record: record
>>>> try:
>...  raise RecordNotFoundException("file", "record")
>... except RecordNotFoundException, x:
>...  print "File:", x.filename, "record:", x.recordid
>...
>File: file record: record
>
>Does this help?

Immensely!!! As I understand it now, the act of catching the exception (_not_
raising it) is what  instantiates an exception  object, to which you can then
access the instance fields, just like any other class.

So far so good.

The only part that remains unclear is that I can define an exception as

class MyException:
	pass

>>> raise MyException, 'foo'
Traceback (innermost last):
  File "<pyshell#13>", line 1, in ?
    raise MyException, 'foo'
MyException: foo

and everything comes out as expected. I would have thought that you would have
to enclose this in a try/except just like the multi-argument class. Apparently,
Python provides some default behavior for simple exceptions.

If anyone would like to explain further, I think this would benefit all of us
who are new to Python and OOP.

Thanks again Steve, you nailed this one!

Daniel Klein


From mlh at idi.ntnu.no  Tue Jan 30 17:12:40 2001
From: mlh at idi.ntnu.no (Magnus Lie Hetland)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 23:12:40 +0100
Subject: Sets in Python
References: <956hcd$qef$1@tyfon.itea.ntnu.no> <956s6k013u0@news2.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <957ee5$btm$1@tyfon.itea.ntnu.no>

"Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:956s6k013u0 at news2.newsguy.com...
> "Magnus Lie Hetland" <mlh at idi.ntnu.no> wrote in message
> news:956hcd$qef$1 at tyfon.itea.ntnu.no...
> >
[...]
> >
> > Isn't there a better (more beautiful) way of doing this?
>
> Hi Magnus!  It's been a while...

Indeed :-)

And it's getting really crowded in this once-so-small-and-cozy
newsgroup. Oh, well. I guess that's a good thing ;-)

>
> In Python 2.1, you'll be able to use
>     if x in dict
> as a synonym for
>     if dict.has_key(x)

Yes... I realised that after I posted... (Stupid of me ;-)

> [and *maybe* the for-loop equivalent, too -- I'm still unclear
> about that one, and it doesn't seem to be in the first alpha].
>

Hm... Interesting.

Anyway -- I have already written a wrapper that supports both
the in-test, iteration and addition, subtraction, in-place
addition/subtraction etc. With a little polishing, it might
be useful. (I'm still thinking a bout union etc. -- not all
that effective... Or perhaps with dict.update(...)? Hm.)

> This would seem to point to using dictionaries as sets.
>

Yes. In a way. You still have to do set[element] = arbitrary_dummy_key,
which seems a bit... Well... Arbitrary. <wink>

> Time machine at work again -- you CAN 'override it' in the
> current Python (2.0; unsure if that was in 1.6 too).

Yes. I found that too. <blush>

Worked it into my wrapper.

> Thus, it would seem that (without having to wait for 2.1)
> implementing sets as class instances would not be too
> bad, either (tiny overhead wrt using native dicts directly,
> and you get to control the syntax sugar:-).

Yes. That's my current strategy. I just don't like importing
my own modules in small scripts... Because then I can't
distribute them separately etc. (That's why I love the plethora
of standard modules that come with Python... I only wish there
were more ... Where one could contain a standard Set class <wink>)

> Supporting
> 'for x in myset' will require some (modest) trickery in
> __getitem__ (caching a [sorted?] copy of the keys of the
> dictionary attribute one uses for implementation, else
> the overhead might become a tad too big, I suspect).

I just did this:

def __getitem__(self, key):
    return data.keys()[key]

The sorting sort of reduces the usefulness of the hash table
in terms of running time... And anyway -- a set has no
intrinsic order, so who cares about the sorting :-)

> That
> gets into murky territory in order to support semi-sensibly
> such behavior as altering the set whose contents one is
> looping on,

Well, in this case that would behave like altering the list
one is iterating over, so that's really not much of a problem,
I think.

> considering the possibility that the for loop
> may be prematurely terminated with a break (so one can't
> know for sure when to throw away said cache), etc.  But, it
> seems to me, nothing _too_ horrible.

Indeed. Not so terrible. I just wish I could see it as something
magical that was included with the Python distribution.

Oh, well. I guess I'll post the little snippet of a class
when I make it a bit more presentable (if I remember <wink>)

Perhaps it could be included in the snippet page?
(Don't remember the URL... It *has* been a while. <wink>)

>
> Alex

--

  Magnus Lie Hetland      (magnus at hetland dot org)

 "Reality is what refuses to disappear when you stop
  believing in it"                 -- Philip K. Dick





From jasonic at nomadicsltd.com  Tue Jan 23 10:02:14 2001
From: jasonic at nomadicsltd.com (Jason Cunliffe)
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 10:02:14 -0500
Subject: Complete list of Python IDEs
References: <slrn96q24u.c2s.ahopkins@ahopkins.dynacare.com> <25708BF4E69C79D8.642051B7F9A3B6D4.27F3341E69B04670@lp.airnews.net>
Message-ID: <t6r70r5l6ruua2@corp.supernews.com>

Not quite what you are looking for but a good start..

Vault:__main__.User Interfaces.GUI

http://www.vex.net/parnassus/apyllo.py/808292924.247038364

hth
- Jason
___________________________________________________________
Jason CUNLIFFE = NOMADICS['Interactive Art and Technology']


Cameron Laird <claird at starbase.neosoft.com> wrote in message
news:25708BF4E69C79D8.642051B7F9A3B6D4.27F3341E69B04670 at lp.airnews.net...
> In article <slrn96q24u.c2s.ahopkins at ahopkins.dynacare.com>,
> Albert Hopkins <ahopkins at dynacare.com> wrote:
> >
> >I know there are a few open source and commercial Python-ware IDEs
> >available, but does there exist a list somwhere comparing features as
well
> >as contact info?
> .
> .
> .
> I know of none.  If you or another enthusiast chooses
> to write it, though, I'm sure we can find at least one
> outlet to publish it.





From fredrik at effbot.org  Tue Jan 30 06:22:39 2001
From: fredrik at effbot.org (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 11:22:39 GMT
Subject: readline: custom keywords
References: <Pine.BSO.4.10.10101301205190.7564-100000@users.vscht.cz>
Message-ID: <3uxd6.9842$Qb7.1506468@newsb.telia.net>

Michal Bozon wrote:
> Is `readline' library designed only for interactive python,
> or is it also possible to use it in own programs with own keywords?

the python support is provided by the rlcompleter module.

check the module sources (Lib/rlcompleter.py) to see how
you can plug in your own "completer" function.

Cheers /F




From tdelaney at avaya.com  Mon Jan  8 00:58:42 2001
From: tdelaney at avaya.com (Delaney, Timothy)
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 16:58:42 +1100 
Subject: Execution of import (was Re: boolean xor)
Message-ID: <B43D149A9AB2D411971300B0D03D7E8B0FBD5C@natasha.auslabs.avaya.com>

Tch tch tch. *Wrong* answer. That doesn't really do it ...
The answer *should* have been "So look in the code ..." ;)

Unfortunately, the time resolution of many platforms isn't sufficient to
determine this in the normal way of timing ...

def a():
	start = time.clock()
	from operator import truth
	end = time.clock()
	i = 1
	print (end - start)

is likely to give 0 every time.

A better timing option would be

def a():
	from operator import truth
	i = 1

def b():
	i = 1

a()

r = range(10000)

startA = time.clock()
for i in r:
	a()
endA = time.clock()

startB = time.clock()
for i in r:
	b()
endB = time.clock()

timeA = endA - startA
timeB = endB - startB
delta = timeA - timeB

print 'Time A:        ' + `timeA`
print 'Time B:        ' + `timeB`
print 'Delta (10000): ' + `delta`
print 'Delta (1):     ' + `float(delta) / len(r)`

Which turns up

Time A:        0.240446624583
Time B:        0.0198969603152
Delta (10000): 0.220549664268
Delta (1):     2.20549664268e-005

on my machine ... meaning that the overhead of calling

	from operator import truth

every time bar the first is bloody small, but can become significant over
enough iterations (0.2 of a second after 10000 iterations) and is indeed
considerably greater than the overhead of a function call.

Tim Delaney
Avaya Australia
+61 2 9352 9079

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tim Peters [mailto:tim.one at home.com]
> Sent: Monday, 8 January 2001 4:24 PM
> To: python-list at python.org
> Subject: RE: Execution of import (was Re: boolean xor)
> 
> 
> [Delaney, Timothy]
> > I think the real question here though is ... how much overhead is
> > there in calling
> >
> > 	from operator import truch
> >
> > inside the function each time through (other than the first).
> > There is some overhead in determining that the module is already
> > imported (even though it should only be a dictionary lookup).
> 
> So time it!  That's easier than asking, and, even better, 
> you'll believe the
> result if you measure it yourself <0.9 wink>.
> 
> time.clock()-ly y'rs  - tim
> 
> 
> -- 
> http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Thu Jan 18 03:32:27 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 09:32:27 +0100
Subject: This is my first program in Python
References: <3a66a585.268350144@news.tcn.net>
Message-ID: <946cob030tl@news2.newsguy.com>

"Richard Zilavec" <rzilavec at tcn.net> wrote in message
news:3a66a585.268350144 at news.tcn.net...
    [snip]
> import string
> file = open("/tmp/globs", 'r')
> for line in file.readlines():
>         (first,second) = string.split(line,':',1)
>         print first
> file.close()

Looks fine to me -- you can omit the parentheses around first, second in
the loop body's first line, but it should accept them if you insist on
using them.  What problem is this giving you?


> This was my first attempt, which looks like it should work but failed:
> invalid syntax.  Is this not possible?
> while line = file.readlines():

No, because assignment is a statement, and the while condition is
an expression.  This question is frequently asked, because of other
languages (C, Perl, etc) where assignment is an operator, quite
acceptable inside any expression; Python takes a different tack
(partly to eliminate possibility of errors due to = vs == confusion).

In this specific case, please note that .readlines() returns ALL
of the lines in the file as one list, so, even with assignment
inside expression, this would not work; you probably want to use
.readline() [NO trailing s], which, each time it's called, returns
the 'next' line ('' when there are no more lines -- and this is
the only result from .readline() that will test as 'false', since
all other lines have, at least, their ending '\n', and non-empty
strings test as 'true').


If you must translate some code using assignment-inside-expression
to Python and want to keep close to the original code's structure,
a viable workaround may be:

class Data:
    def set(self, data):
        self.data = data
        return self.data

and then you can do (although probably unwarranted in this case):

line = Data()
while line.set(file.readline()):
    first, second = string.split(line.data,':',1)
    print first


Alex





From danielk at aracnet.com  Fri Jan 26 08:45:54 2001
From: danielk at aracnet.com (Daniel Klein)
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 05:45:54 -0800
Subject: how to excecute the script..
References: <mailman.980511872.3960.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <alv27t0ao6mu85kqjh07v072h999mnrn48@4ax.com>

What error message are you getting?

Are you specifying an explicit path to your python script?

Post the code you are trying to execute.

You may need to set the PYTHONPATH environment variable if your script needs to
find other .py files that are imported.

You will need to tell us more than 'it doesn't work' for us to be able to help
you.

Dan

On Fri, 26 Jan 2001 13:23:09 +0100 (CET), ABDENOUR HADID <hadidab at yahoo.fr>
wrote:

>dear friends;
>
>i just started to progam with python. I download it
>and I can write and excute somethings in the
>interpreter....
>
>but I want to write my progam or script in another
>text editor and excute it...with the command (python
>filename..)...but Its dosn"t work...
>
>
>can you help me?
>
>thank you
>
>
>
>___________________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!? -- Pour dialoguer en direct avec vos amis, 
>Yahoo! Messenger : http://fr.messenger.yahoo.com



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Mon Jan  8 17:32:42 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 23:32:42 +0100
Subject: why no "do : until"?
References: <932r3e010bd@news1.newsguy.com><mailman.978660367.22251.python-list@python.org> <fvy9wlztq2.fsf@Borokay.AI.SRI.COM>
Message-ID: <93dfg1177p@news1.newsguy.com>

"David Morley" <morley at Borokay.ai.sri.com> wrote in message
news:fvy9wlztq2.fsf at Borokay.AI.SRI.COM...
    [snip]
> What would be wrong with:
>
> class Indexing:
>     def __init__(self, thing):
>         self.thing = thing
>     def __getitem__(self, index):
>         return (index, self.thing[index])
>
> for (i,x) in Indexing(a):

Just the redundant parentheses --
    for i, x in Indexing(a):
reads fractionally more smoothly (and similarly,
the parentheses are not needed on the return
from __getitem__).  Pretty cool idea though!-)


Alex





From volker.jahns at web.de  Mon Jan 29 08:27:57 2001
From: volker.jahns at web.de (Volker Jahns)
Date: 29 Jan 2001 15:27:57 +0200
Subject: Books
Message-ID: <3a757ac1$1@netnews.web.de>

Hi,


First:I am want to read something about PHYTON. Which books are good for a 
programmer with good knowledge in differnt languages PHP, SQL and so one?


Second: I searchin links about PHYTON and fpound not very much. The german web-
addr is dead and behind the .org have nothing to do (I think) with the language...


Thx for help
Volker
-- 
_____________________________________________________________
NewsGroups Suchen, lesen, schreiben mit http://netnews.web.de


From aahz at panix.com  Sat Jan 27 10:54:05 2001
From: aahz at panix.com (Aahz Maruch)
Date: 27 Jan 2001 07:54:05 -0800
Subject: Hack request: rational numbers
References: <mailman.980590234.29036.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <94uqut$l8q$1@panix3.panix.com>

In article <mailman.980590234.29036.python-list at python.org>,
Tim Peters <tim.one at home.com> wrote:
>
>excluding-those-who-don't-like-anything-new-ever-ly y'rs  - tim

<waves paw irritably>  Bah!
-- 
                      --- Aahz (Copyright 2001 by aahz at pobox.com)

Androgynous poly kinky vanilla queer het    <*>     http://www.rahul.net/aahz/
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6

"I heard Commentary and Dissent had merged and formed Dysentary."


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Wed Jan 31 17:40:44 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 23:40:44 +0100
Subject: Data management products (was: How do you lock your web app data?)
References: <956uqd$6st$1@newsreaderg1.core.theplanet.net> <958j810o2e@news2.newsguy.com> <D62094CDC48C0FCA.44A0CB1CEB4E1F76.B8EA27DB5535EBAD@lp.airnews.net>
Message-ID: <95a49u11uao@news1.newsguy.com>

"Cameron Laird" <claird at starbase.neosoft.com> wrote in message
news:D62094CDC48C0FCA.44A0CB1CEB4E1F76.B8EA27DB5535EBAD at lp.airnews.net...
    [snip]
> Actually, all these Alex has mentioned have
> capabilities that'll knock the socks off vic-
> tims habituated to Access, for example.

Just one attempt at terminology clarification...:

Access is a possibly-handy GUI IDE front-end for cobbling together
possibly-intricated DB operations; at least if you don't mind
programming in VBA (sigh), for some things it's usable (and
may be better than professional VB if you have but little custom
code and use its intrinsic abilities a lot -- much like, say, Excel).

What was in a far, distant past misnamed 'the Access database'
by Microsoft marketroids (the same misbegotten ilk who managed
for years to throw confusion around COM by misnaming everything
COM *as if* it had anything to do with various technologies who were
and are *ON TOP* of COM itself -- at first, OLE, later, Active/X), is
now fortunately again known only by its true name, 'Jet'.  It's a
very old-technology, legacy engine, with no pluses I can think of
when compared to MSDE, Postgres, etc.

Fortunately, Access of course works perfectly well with MSDE (or
other editions of SQL Server), Oracle, and no doubt other good
RDBMS's yet.  Even if one IS habituated to Access (and there may
be perfectly good reasons for choosing it to develop certain DB
apps, I guess), there is no reason not to switch to a better engine
underneath the chrome (given that MSDE is freely redistributable
under the conditions I mentioned in my previous message, for
example).  [To be honest, personally, I'm having a hard time
thinking up anything I'd *want* to code in Access, other VBA
platforms, Foxpro, or similar languages, rather than Python --
but, I'm sure there are niches where such tools help a lot].


Alex







From MarkH at ActiveState.com  Thu Jan 25 12:45:53 2001
From: MarkH at ActiveState.com (Mark Hammond)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 17:45:53 GMT
Subject: win32com.client - need some help
References: <94mjj8$v3g$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <94mrs102b3i@news2.newsguy.com> <94pa5c$aqb$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <94pood$p55$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

In article <94pa5c$aqb$1 at nnrp1.deja.com>,
  zippy1984 at my-deja.com wrote:

>    HRESULT getDictionary([out] IDispatch** pDictionary);
>    [id(0x12345678)]

...
> >>> dic = ob.getDictionary()
> >>> dic
> <COMObject getDictionary>

There are 2 reasons this is happening.  If the IDL correctly
said "IDictionary" instead of IDispatch, _or_ the IDictionary
implementation of IDispatch supports type info, then makepy would know
exactly what the object is.

However, as neither of these are true, Python knows nothing more than
it is an IDispatch.

>
> I find this strange...getDictionary is just the method, in VB I here
> get an instance of the IDictionary, which has the getValue method
> I need (IDictionary is a subclass of IDispatch).  This is what
> happens now:

This is win32com mis-leading you.  It tries to use the "name" of the
object, and without any type information or other hints, it uses the
name of the method or property.  This often works quite well - eg, if
instead of a method called "getDictionary" it was simply a property
named "dictionary" it would make much more sense.

> >>> val = dic.getValue('Version')
> Traceback (innermost last):
>   File "<interactive input>", line 1, in ?
>   File "C:\Python20\win32com\client\dynamic.py", line 435, in
> __getattr__
>     raise AttributeError, "%s.%s", % (self._username_, attr)
> AttributeError: getDictionary.getValue
> >>>

I have no idea why this is failing.

Mark.


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http://www.deja.com/


From phd at phd.pp.ru  Tue Jan  9 05:13:15 2001
From: phd at phd.pp.ru (Oleg Broytmann)
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 13:13:15 +0300 (MSK)
Subject: mxTools (was Re: why no "do : until"?)
In-Reply-To: <937rqs01sal@news1.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0101091311480.1954-100000@fep132.fep.ru>

On Sat, 6 Jan 2001, Alex Martelli wrote:
> ...which reminds me: why no PEPs about adding to Python's core some
> of the nicest ideas in Lemburg's neat mxTools...?  I assume there must
> be a reason (e.g., Guido must already have seen them all and decided
> they don't belong in the core, or something), but I'd like to know...

   Anyone here has any doubts that at least mxDateTime simply MUST be in
the Python core? :)

Oleg.
----
     Oleg Broytmann            http://phd.pp.ru/            phd at phd.pp.ru
           Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN.




From sandj.williams at gte.net  Sun Jan 21 12:59:49 2001
From: sandj.williams at gte.net (Steve Williams)
Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 17:59:49 GMT
Subject: How do I know all thrown exceptions of a function?
References: <g3lb49.73s.ln@127.0.0.1> <94d93h$55d$1@troll.powertech.no> <mailman.980059223.25947.python-list@python.org> <Qeya6.7932$AH6.1260668@newsc.telia.net>
Message-ID: <3A6B24F0.EA164698@gte.net>

Fredrik Lundh wrote:

> Sean Reifschneider wrote:
> > Yeah, I suppose so.  I don't think you should *HAVE* to review the code of
> > the libraries you call, AND *EVERYTHING* that *THEY* call.  It's not an
> > effective use of my time...
>
> yeah, and what's worse, having to *TEST* your code before
> shipping just sucks...
>
> Cheers /F

Now, now.  I raised a similar point about 'from ftplib import FTP' exceptions a
few weeks ago and was told RTFM.

Packaging my code for production use, adding try/excepts and testing by forcing
failures,  I found I couldn't catch ftplib exceptions, although I copied the
example shown in Beazley and in the ftplib code itself.

Catching exceptions thrown by imported classes is not easy, simple or clear,
IMHO.  The  solution requires a technique (adding the exception name to the
import statement) that is not common in Python documentation or examples.

If the imported class throws a number of different exceptions, is there a tuple
defined with the exception names and can we reference this tuple in the import
statement and reference the tuple members in our 'except' statements, or must we
name each exception separately in the import?

On into the darkness. . .




From m.faassen at vet.uu.nl  Sat Jan 13 07:43:46 2001
From: m.faassen at vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen)
Date: 13 Jan 2001 12:43:46 GMT
Subject: Web devel with python. Whats the best route?
References: <mailman.979331115.13089.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <93pii2$c4c$2@newshost.accu.uu.nl>

Tim Peters <tim.one at home.com> wrote:
> [Cliff Crawford]
>> InterTran translates the phrase "Tim Peters" as "[Tim] Godfather".  :)

> [Steve Holden]
>> So he *is* a member of the

> All right, I've had it.  It's time to come clean!  Here's the trut

It appears there's some kind of bizarre interaction between 
NNTP (or is it MailMan?) and temporal paradoxes here, that


From oblomov at freemail.it  Sun Jan 14 18:08:19 2001
From: oblomov at freemail.it (Giuseppe Bilotta)
Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 23:08:19 GMT
Subject: Profiler
Message-ID: <Djq86.53692$eB2.4648793@news.infostrada.it>

Hello,

I'm looking for a more complete profiler than the Profiler module. Precisely, I'm looking for a profiler that also calculates branch
probabilities for conditionals. Does anybody know if there is one available?

--
Giuseppe Bilotta






From alex116321 at my-deja.com  Tue Jan  2 14:00:48 2001
From: alex116321 at my-deja.com (alex116321 at my-deja.com)
Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2001 19:00:48 GMT
Subject: Memory leak
Message-ID: <92t8gp$blv$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

I am experiencing memory leakage when using Python and COM.
Specifically, I am using the Micosoft XML Parser to load and traverse
XML DOM stuctures.  Everytime I access an XML node, more memory is
consumed.  After a while, this can eat away most of the system
resources if the Python session is not terminated.  Here is a simple
example (assume the interpreter is used as a server and does not exit):

############################################
#Note: using del doesn't seem to help
############################################
import win32com.client

o = win32com.client.Dispatch("microsoft.xmldom")
o.loadXML("<test/>")

for idx in range(50000):
	node = o.selectSingleNode("//test")

#############################################

Any suggestions would be appreciated.



Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From max at alcyone.com  Wed Jan 10 23:33:29 2001
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 20:33:29 -0800
Subject: default arguments newbie question
References: <mailman.979172904.31007.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3A5D3799.E9546106@alcyone.com>

Mike Fletcher wrote:

> To expand on that "fundamental types" qualification...
> 
> class NULL:
>     def __cmp__( self, other ):
>         if other:
>            return -1
>         else:
>            return 0
> 
> Will break the assumption that x == None means x is None.  That is,
> NULLs
> will equate to any "false" value, including None, but would not match
> with
> an "is" test.

Well, sure, you can come up with pathological cases, but as you say, it
isn't terribly important as a serious technical objection.

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, US / 37 20 N 121 53 W / ICQ16063900 / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ We grow in time to trust the future for our answers.
\__/ Ruth Benedict
    Official Buh rules / http://www.alcyone.com/max/projects/cards/buh/
 The official rules to the betting card game, Buh.


From randy at spoke.net  Sat Jan 27 19:20:26 2001
From: randy at spoke.net (Randall Kern)
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 00:20:26 GMT
Subject: threading issues with statcache
Message-ID: <eBJc6.551$p_2.268979@paloalto-snr1.gtei.net>

Looking at the code for the statcache module from py 1.5.2, it looks like it
isn't thread safe.  While writing my own substitute, I realized I am unclear
on when names are looked up.

In particular, given two function like these (copied from statcache):

cache = {}
def stat(path):
    if cache.has_key(path):
        return cache[path]

    cache[path] = ret = os.stat(path)
    return ret

def reset():
    global cache
    cache = {}


If the symbol 'cache' is looked up _once_ per function, then these two
functions may be used across multiple threads.  If it is looked up for every
reference, than it would be possible to call reset() between a TRUE
has_key() and the return in stat(), which would result in a KeyError.

When are global variable's bound?

Thanks,
-Randy
P.S. I realize that stat() might update the cache more than once for the
same path, if it was called from multiple threads. But that's consistent
with it's expected behavior, so not really a MT problem.




From alisdair.meredith at NO_SPAM_PLEASE.benettonformula.com  Fri Jan 26 07:54:25 2001
From: alisdair.meredith at NO_SPAM_PLEASE.benettonformula.com (AlisdairM)
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 12:54:25 +0000
Subject: Advice for a first project
References: <3A713C6D.EB4E1D14@NO_SPAM_PLEASE.benettonformula.com>
Message-ID: <3A717381.978D2352@NO_SPAM_PLEASE.benettonformula.com>

Sorry for the double post.  Access problems :? (

AlisdairM


From cpsoct at my-deja.com  Sun Jan 21 04:43:22 2001
From: cpsoct at my-deja.com (cpsoct at my-deja.com)
Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 09:43:22 GMT
Subject: Markov.py
Message-ID: <94eavq$5cl$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

I found the following script in the mac standard distribution (see path
below). It seems to be Guido's, i am not sure however, i am at a loss
as to how to use this. I was unable to run it and there is not
documentation. In otherwords, i put on my detective hat but was still
unable to get the thing to run. Anyone use this and can explain to me
how? The script is a bit to big and complex for my level of python kno-
how, but how sweet would it be to be able to make a markov chain in
python without having to re-invent the wheel. Particularly since i
wouldn't be able to in this case!

cheers,
kevin parks
seoul, korea
cpsoct at lycos.com




----- cut here ------
#found in apps:Python 2.0:Demo:scripts:markov.py
#
#! /usr/bin/env python

class Markov:
	def __init__(self, histsize, choice):
		self.histsize = histsize
		self.choice = choice
		self.trans = {}
	def add(self, state, next):
		if not self.trans.has_key(state):
			self.trans[state] = [next]
		else:
			self.trans[state].append(next)
	def put(self, seq):
		n = self.histsize
		add = self.add
		add(None, seq[:0])
		for i in range(len(seq)):
			add(seq[max(0, i-n):i], seq[i:i+1])
		add(seq[len(seq)-n:], None)
	def get(self):
		choice = self.choice
		trans = self.trans
		n = self.histsize
		seq = choice(trans[None])
		while 1:
			subseq = seq[max(0, len(seq)-n):]
			options = trans[subseq]
			next = choice(options)
			if not next: break
			seq = seq + next
		return seq

def test():
	import sys, string, random, getopt
	args = sys.argv[1:]
	try:
		opts, args = getopt.getopt(args, '0123456789cdw')
	except getopt.error:
		print 'Usage: markov [-#] [-cddqw] [file] ...'
		print 'Options:'
		print '-#: 1-digit history size (default 2)'
		print '-c: characters (default)'
		print '-w: words'
		print '-d: more debugging output'
		print '-q: no debugging output'
		print 'Input files (default stdin) are split in
paragraphs'
		print 'separated blank lines and each paragraph is
split'
		print 'in words by whitespace, then reconcatenated
with'
		print 'exactly one space separating words.'
		print 'Output consists of paragraphs separated by
blank'
		print 'lines, where lines are no longer than 72
characters.'
	histsize = 2
	do_words = 0
	debug = 1
	for o, a in opts:
		if '-0' <= o <= '-9': histsize = eval(o[1:])
		if o == '-c': do_words = 0
		if o == '-d': debug = debug + 1
		if o == '-q': debug = 0
		if o == '-w': do_words = 1
	if not args: args = ['-']
	m = Markov(histsize, random.choice)
	try:
	    for filename in args:
		    if filename == '-':
			    f = sys.stdin
			    if f.isatty():
				    print 'Sorry, need stdin from
file'
				    continue
		    else:
			    f = open(filename, 'r')
		    if debug: print 'processing', filename, '...'
		    text = f.read()
		    f.close()
		    paralist = string.splitfields(text, '\n\n')
		    for para in paralist:
			    if debug > 1: print 'feeding ...'
			    words = string.split(para)
			    if words:
				    if do_words: data = tuple
(words)
				    else: data = string.joinfields
(words, ' ')
				    m.put(data)
	except KeyboardInterrupt:
		print 'Interrupted -- continue with data read so far'
	if not m.trans:
		print 'No valid input files'
		return
	if debug: print 'done.'
	if debug > 1:
		for key in m.trans.keys():
			if key is None or len(key) < histsize:
				print `key`, m.trans[key]
		if histsize == 0: print `''`, m.trans['']
		print
	while 1:
		data = m.get()
		if do_words: words = data
		else: words = string.split(data)
		n = 0
		limit = 72
		for w in words:
			if n + len(w) > limit:
				print
				n = 0
			print w,
			n = n + len(w) + 1
		print
		print

def tuple(list):
	if len(list) == 0: return ()
	if len(list) == 1: return (list[0],)
	i = len(list)/2
	return tuple(list[:i]) + tuple(list[i:])

test()


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From tim.one at home.com  Thu Jan 11 02:56:40 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 02:56:40 -0500
Subject: Reading Microsoft Outlook Express .dbx files
In-Reply-To: <04d76.251982$U46.8023631@news1.sttls1.wa.home.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCKEPKIHAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Greg Jorgensen]
> Both Outlook and Outlook Express can show the original raw message
> source, though it isn't obvious. In OE choose
> File | Properties | Details | Message Source
> (or use ctrl+F3 to do the same thing).

Yes.

> Outlook has a different path to the message source;

Sorry, I don't believe that -- but I'm easy to convince <wink>.  You may be
thinking of the menu item View -> Options in Outlook, but that only shows
the headers.  Or you may be thinking of context-menu View -> Source while
reading a msg, but that only exists for HTML mail, and still doesn't show
the raw stream (MIME encodings, etc).  There's nothing corresponding to OE's
(useful!) notion of "Message Source" in the Outlook object model, either.

> I don't have Outlook at home so I don't remember the path, but it's
> there.

See above.  One of OE's developers confirmed this for me wrt Outlook 98, but
that was about two years ago; if something fundamental changed in Outlook
2000, I haven't found it despite hours of looking.

> Outlook can save selected messages to a text file, which OE can't
> do.

Have found that of only marginal use, and only then for plain-text msgs.
Still the case that, to the best of my knowledge, while recent Outlooks deal
with msgs in std Internet format fine, it's not possible to get them back in
that format from Outlook (as the original questioner wanted).

friend-of-a-friend-at-a-workplace-notwithstanding<wink>-ly y'rs
    - tim




From vsbabu at erols.com  Wed Jan 10 20:04:53 2001
From: vsbabu at erols.com (Satheesh Babu)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 20:04:53 -0500
Subject: ActivePython2.0 - Server Side objects for ASP problem
Message-ID: <93j0qi$7cv$1@bob.news.rcn.net>

Hi,

I'm trying to use a server side python object to be called from a VBScript
ASP code.
It works nicely for simple things. When I try to use urllib functions, I get
an error. Any
idea? The second function works nicely. I'm using Win98, PWS with Build202.
I'll try
on NT4.0 IIS tomorrow. Any help is greatly appreciated.

----------------- ASP file -----------------
<% @LANGUAGE="VBSCRIPT" %>
<!--#include file="pymod.asp"-->
<%= SlurpURL("http://vsbabu.csoft.net/") %>
<%= CapitalizeIt("the first letter should be capitalized") %>

----------------pymod.asp------------------
<script language='python' runat='server'>
from urllib import *
from string import *

def SlurpURL(i_url):
    f = urlopen(i_url)
    o_data = f.read()
    f.close()
    return o_data

def CapitalizeIt(i_str)
    return capitalize(i_str)


</script>
------------------ error message -----------------
Python ActiveX Scripting Engine error '80020009'

Traceback (innermost last): File "<Script Block >", line 4, in SlurpURL f =
urlopen(i_url) File "c:\python20\lib\urllib.py", line 61, in urlopen return
_urlopener.open(url) File "c:\python20\lib\urllib.py", line 166, in open
return getattr(self, name)(url) File "c:\python20\lib\urllib.py", line 248,
in open_http host, selector = url ValueError: unpack sequence of wrong size

?

host, selector = url

======================

I've a requirement to do some network socket programming, which should be
added to
lot of existing ASP (VBSCript) code. I don't know of any way to do that in
ASP, short
of COM component development, which I don't want to know. So my idea is to
use
an existing Python code which works very well stand alone (it also works as
a
Python ASP script), use it as a server side object and then call it from
existing
ASP-VBScript pages. Suits are going to bar me from converting all VBScript
pages to Python :-(

Alternate ideas are also welcome!

Many thanks in advance


--
v.s.babu
vsbabu at erols.com
http://vsbabu.csoft.net




From andreasp at qbcon.com  Tue Jan 23 07:18:39 2001
From: andreasp at qbcon.com (Andreas Pauley)
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 14:18:39 +0200
Subject: Determining Content-Type
Message-ID: <3A6D769F.E6F7A32F@qbcon.com>

Hi,
I would like to know if there is a way for me to determine the HTTP
Content-Type header of a file residing on disk.
My application inserts a file into the database as a blob, and at the
same time populates a few other fields including the one for the
Content-Type.
This field should then be used by other programs for
displaying/outputting the file to a web browser.

My setup is as follows:
OS: Linux (Red Hat 6.2 or Mandrake 7.2, with a 2.2.x kernel)
Python version: 2.0

Thanks,
Andreas Pauley.
-- 
... Any resemblance between the above views and those of my employer,
my terminal, or the view out my window are purely coincidental.  Any
resemblance between the above and my own views is non-deterministic. 
The
question of the existence of views in the absence of anyone to hold them
is left as an exercise for the reader.  The question of the existence of
the reader is left as an exercise for the second god coefficient.  (A
discussion of non-orthogonal, non-integral polytheism is beyond the
scope
of this article.)


From juergen.erhard at gmx.net  Mon Jan 15 13:26:54 2001
From: juergen.erhard at gmx.net (Jürgen A. Erhard)
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 19:26:54 +0100
Subject: Internet C++ and Python?
In-Reply-To: <8v2m28$g8a@micky.ibh-dd.de> (mmueller@dgfz.de)
References: <8v2m28$g8a@micky.ibh-dd.de>
Message-ID: <15012001.3@wanderer.local.jae.ddns.org>

>>>>> "Mike" == Mike M?ller <mmueller at dgfz.de> writes:

    Mike> I just discovered something interesting in the German
    Mike> ?Linux Magazin? (12/200 p. 88). It is called Internet
    Mike> C++ which is something like Java just for C++.
    Mike> There is a virtual machine named icvm.

[...]

    Mike> There seem to be some remaining problems:
    Mike> - no support for shared libraries (yet)
    Mike> - no threads (yet)
    Mike> - no GPL but open source which is free for free OSes only (similar to
    Mike> OpenMotif) and the source can only be changed with permission of the
    Mike> original author (Information form ?Linux Magazin? article by Tom Schwaller
    Mike> (mentioned above) not from the IC++ homepage)

It's not GPL... and going by your description (haven't seen the
article, though I'm pretty sure I have the issue of the Linux
Magazin), it's also not Free Software/Open Source.

Which makes it completely uninteresting for me... and also in the
context of using it with Python, I think.

Bye, J

-- 
J?rgen A. Erhard    juergen.erhard at gmx.net   phone: (GERMANY) 0721 27326
     MARS: http://members.tripod.com/Juergen_Erhard/mars_index.html
          Electronic Frontier Foundation (http://www.eff.org)
           C> (A)bort (R)etry (I)nfluence with a large hammer



From seefeld at sympatico.ca  Wed Jan 17 10:30:37 2001
From: seefeld at sympatico.ca (Stefan Seefeld)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 15:30:37 GMT
Subject: writing a package with the C API
Message-ID: <3A65C90C.AFE3676D@sympatico.ca>

hello,

I'm trying to build not only a module with the C API, but a 
whole package, i.e. a module with sub modules. I don't seem
to be able to do that. While I have no problems generating
modules A an B, then inserting B into A's dictionary, I can't
import B with the statement 'import A.B'.

Any help would be highly appreciated !

Stefan
_______________________________________________________              
              
Stefan Seefeld
Departement de Physique
Universite de Montreal
email: seefelds at magellan.umontreal.ca

_______________________________________________________

      ...ich hab' noch einen Koffer in Berlin...


From saua at gmx.net  Thu Jan 18 10:54:12 2001
From: saua at gmx.net (Joachim Sauer)
Date: 18 Jan 2001 15:54:12 GMT
Subject: python compiled to native in less than a year?
References: <kcF86.6006$J%.594457@news.flash.net> <Pine.GSO.4.21.0101151106200.7702-100000@z.glue.umd.edu> <8pF86.6015$J%.595435@news.flash.net> <0luc6toovfccbqspkvc0dkqkuc5dck7u51@4ax.com> <946coc130tl@news2.newsguy.com> <qcE96.8755$J%.858944@news.flash.net>
Message-ID: <902DAF4D1jsigsat@195.3.96.116>

slhath at flash.net (scott hathaway) wrote in
<qcE96.8755$J%.858944 at news.flash.net>: 

[snip a lot of good points and some debatable points]
>
>This is wonderful for anyone programming on Windows now, and will be
>even more wonderful as soon as someone converts IL to native on Linux.

Well, I've heard such a thing before ".NET is open, you can write an .NET 
environment for Linux! MS has changed!".

Well, AFAIK IL itself is pretty easy to implement (with pretty easy I mean 
not much harder than an Java JVM), but the Problem is, that some (or let's 
say much) of the .NET Runtime Library (which is the Equivalent to the 
java.*-Packages in Java and libc.so on GNU/Linux and (dont-exactly-know-
but-might-be-something-with-kernel.dll-and-user32.dll) on Windows. Depends 
heavily on the Win32 API (although it is never stated that you have to use 
Win32 it to implement the .NET-Library it will be _very_ hard to do without 
it).

>
[snip]

regards
Joachim Sauer

P.S.: As allways all this is AFAIK, so please correct me if you can.

-- 
No more ROT13, just for you ;-)


From bobhicks at adelphia.net  Fri Jan 19 14:57:12 2001
From: bobhicks at adelphia.net (Robert L Hicks)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 19:57:12 GMT
Subject: Tabbing/Spaces
Message-ID: <B68E060D.901B%bobhicks@adelphia.net>

I am in the very basic stages of writing down what I want in an OSX specific
Python IDE.

While reading the reference manual it denotes that 8 spaces is that standard
for indentation. However almost all the code (if not all) seems to use 4.
What is the standard spacing on indentation?

Bob



From matz at zetabits.com  Thu Jan 25 23:25:18 2001
From: matz at zetabits.com (Yukihiro Matsumoto)
Date: 26 Jan 2001 13:25:18 +0900
Subject: Python vs Ruby
References: <94mdkd$222e$1@news.adamastor.ac.za>
 <p6qwvbjtr97.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <87puhbndn5.fsf@hoyogw.netlab.co.jp>

Hi,

Martin von Loewis <loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de> writes:

|Incorrect is the claim
|  Ruby has "real" garbage collector, not ref-counting.
|
|While this is correct also, it implies that Python has ref-counting
|and no "real" garbage collector, which is not true for Python 2.0.

Python evolved.  I shall update the page.

  Ruby uses mark-and-sweep GC unlike Python's ref-counting GC.

|The implication of the conclusion
|#  Not subject to memory leaks like ref-counting is. 
|
|is likewise incorrect - in Python 2.0, the memory leaks of reference
|counting disappear also.

The leaks I meant were two fold:

  * circluar references
  * wrong ref-counted objects, mostly by extension bugs.

The former disappeared in Python 2.0.  But the latter still remain.
Correct me if I'm wrong.

|I don't know how exactly GC works in Ruby - it is likely that
|it suffers from things that people would consider as drawbacks, though.

Maybe, maybe not.

Regards,

							matz.


From johann at physics.berkeley.edu  Mon Jan 29 14:11:29 2001
From: johann at physics.berkeley.edu (Johann Hibschman)
Date: 29 Jan 2001 11:11:29 -0800
Subject: Hack request: rational numbers
References: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0101251759070.28148-100000@kev.ioc.ee> <951h34$tch$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <3A745D6C.2EEA931@home.nl>
Message-ID: <mtr91mrx5q.fsf@astron.berkeley.edu>

Jaap Spies writes:

> chaoweilun at my-deja.com wrote:
>> 
>> Sorry,BTW,could anyone tell me,why the letter "j" is used
>> to represent complex numbers, but not "i"?

> You are a mathematician? Me too.
> A lot of Python People are Mathematicians.
> Nevertheless "j" will do!

Don't look now, but the physicists are with you on this one.  ;-)

-- 
Johann Hibschman                           johann at physics.berkeley.edu


From jianchen at my-deja.com  Mon Jan  8 04:29:25 2001
From: jianchen at my-deja.com (jianchen at my-deja.com)
Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2001 09:29:25 GMT
Subject: zombie question
Message-ID: <93c19g$5k7$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

Hi,all!

I am programming a smtp server in python. It works fine now except that
it will left some zombie processes when the clients disconnect from my
server.

I have tried some methods from W.R.Stevens's famous work Unix Network
Programming such as catch the SIGCHLD signal in the daemon process. But
strangly when the child process exit, no signal send! Even when I
explicitly use kill to send SIGCHLD signal to the parent process, the
signal function seems not get called! ;(

Is there something I missed?

tia.



Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Mon Jan 15 08:47:47 2001
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 13:47:47 +0000
Subject: is this a known re 'bug/feature'?
Message-ID: <sr1aNJAD+vY6Ewmb@jessikat.demon.co.uk>

I find the following bug/feature/difference between the new and older re modules, is
this a known feature?  Seems like the new re doesn't like {m,n} modifiers.

>>> import re, pre
>>> P = re.compile('\\{(M{1,5}|YYYY|YY|D{1,4})\\}',re.MULTILINE|re.IGNORECASE)
>>> oP = pre.compile('\\{(M{1,5}|YYYY|YY|D{1,4})\\}',re.MULTILINE|re.IGNORECASE)
>>> P.match('{MMMMM}')
>>> oP.match('{MMMMM}')
<pre.MatchObject instance at 0113B754
>>>> 
-- 
Robin Becker


From lele at seldati.it  Sat Jan 20 14:21:28 2001
From: lele at seldati.it (Lele Gaifax)
Date: 20 Jan 2001 20:21:28 +0100
Subject: Tabbing/Spaces
References: <20010120011201.72310F44E@mail.python.org> <mailman.979964962.24958.python-list@python.org> <n3aa6.7716$AH6.1213290@newsc.telia.net>
Message-ID: <m37l3q2fnr.fsf@paci.nautilus>

>>>>> On Sat, 20 Jan 2001 06:16:51 GMT, "Fredrik Lundh" <fredrik at effbot.org> said:

    FL> here's a piece of code I use for emacs (taken from a java mode
    FL> sample by jwz):

Here is a simpler recipe :-)

Put this at the end of the file

#
# Local Variables:
# eval: (add-hook 'write-contents-hooks '(lambda () (untabify 0 (point-max)) nil) t nil)
# End:
#

Attaching a simple function that does the same to `python-mode-hook'
you will get that behaviour on every python source.

bye, lele.
-- 
nickname: Lele Gaifax	| Quando vivro' di quello che ho pensato ieri
real: Emanuele Gaifas	| comincero' ad aver paura di chi mi copia.
email: lele at seldati.it	|		-- Fortunato Depero, 1929.



From m.wilson at bibliocraft.com  Mon Jan 22 23:41:25 2001
From: m.wilson at bibliocraft.com (Mark Wilson)
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 04:41:25 -0000
Subject: Python/C++ for graphics vs. other languages?
Message-ID: <017301c084f7$c745c1c0$14824ac3@mwdell1>

Doug Ball said

>I am very much enjoying learning and applying python,
however I find myself tasked with writing a potentially
large graphics intensive program that will we speed
sensitive.

>I would be grateful if any of you could share your
experiences with hybrid Python/C++ approaches to such
applications vs. using compiled high-level languages like
Dylan, Common Lisp or Objective Caml.

If you want to use Python as your user-interface glue - say
to control the graphics transformations your app can
perform, then I think you'll find it exceptionally
acceptable. In this capacity, success depends on how well
you can integrate the language (ie the interpreter) between
the bits and bobs the user sees and can fiddle with, and the
lumps of code which are actually generating/processing your
images. My own experience, though not directly concerned
with image processing, has been very positive. Python was
relatively easy to "connect" to both UI components and (in
my case fairly simple) processing code ( I say relatively -
mimicking an existing C++ class hierarchy in the Python
domain took a little head scratching). Having got the system
working, I've been amazed at the level of control you can so
easily express in the language, at the same time as I've
been mightily impressed by the speed at which it does these
things (in part of course due to the rate at which
processors can run these days).

Using Python to effect the actual image transformations on
the other hand would probably not be a good idea. If speed
is a sensitive issue, then I very much doubt you'll be
calculating pixel values in Python code (much as it would be
great to do so). However, you can probably break your
processes up into a suite of basic transformations
implemented in C/C++ (or whatever). You can endow with a
high degree of flexibility because its pretty easy to pass
lots of params from Python, and if your UI interface to the
language is good, then it will be easy for you to
specify/modify these params to get the most out of your
processing code. You could then use Python to orchestrate
sequences of these transformations to get the required
result.

Others may comment on performance relative to other
interpreted languages. I had the great misfortune to once
integrate AppleScript into a similar kind of framework. I
don't know if AppleScript actually qualifies as a language -
the computer equivalent of neanderthal grunts perhaps.
Whatever, it was a very long time ago, computers were slow
and AS was slow too, though most of the time you didn't
notice because you couldn't get anything to work right :->

My guess is that, once you start thinking about Python in
the middle of your app, and especially once you start to get
something that works, you'll be inspired to find neat ways
round any performance issues you may have. What you
definitly won't do is decide to ditch the language and do
the whole thing in C/C++ (or AppleScript for that matter).

Just my 2 pence worth.

Mark






From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sun Jan  7 10:55:01 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2001 16:55:01 +0100
Subject: embedding python in C++
References: <934r1a$pda$1@troll.powertech.no>
Message-ID: <93a3lp01kpg@news1.newsguy.com>

"Syver Enstad" <syver at NOSPAMcyberwatcher.com> wrote in message
news:934r1a$pda$1 at troll.powertech.no...
> I am total newbie to embedding Python in C++ (except with COM). What's the
> most straightforward way of executing a python file from C++ and grabbing
> the output in a string?

Should be no different than in C (as long as your C++ compiler is compatible
with the C one used to build Python on the platform in question), except
that
you can use handy C++ extras such as declaring variables 'just-in-time' when
you know what you want to initialize them with.

For "grabbing the output", I assume you mean getting characters that the
script is emitting to standard-output.  For that, it's somewhat simpler to
do
the 'output capture' in Python, with a StringIO object, then call its
getvalue
method to get the contents as a string.

Omitting the obvious needs for freeing/finalization of various stuff, and
error
checking, it could be something like (with a #include "Python.h" up at the
start
of the source file, of course!):

    Py_Initialize();
    char capture_stdout[] =
"import sys, StringIO\n\
sys.stdout=sys._capture=StringIO.StringIO()\n";
    int rc = PyRun_SimpleString(capture_stdout);
    FILE* f = fopen("foo.py", "r");
    rc = PyRun_SimpleFile(f, "foo.py");
    PyObject* sysmod = PyImport_ImportModule("sys");
    PyObject* capobj = PyObject_GetAttrString(sysmod,"_capture");
    PyObject* strres = PyObject_CallMethod(capobj,"getvalue",0);
    char* cres = PyString_AsString(strres);

Now, if everything went well (one _should_ check at each step!-), you
have in the null-terminated C-string 'cres' all that foo.py code wrote to
its "standard-output" (with print or otherwise).  A "more straightforward"
way to do it than with these 7 Py* calls doesn't come to mind...


Alex





From db3l at fitlinxx.com  Wed Jan 24 14:16:01 2001
From: db3l at fitlinxx.com (David Bolen)
Date: 24 Jan 2001 14:16:01 -0500
Subject: Python for embedded systems (was Re: What does Python do)
References: <mailman.980327608.16017.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <uofwwwyku.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com>

tanzer at swing.co.at (Christian Tanzer) writes:

> You're right -- the important point is `deterministic'. But ensuring
> deterministic behaviour in the presence of dynamic memory allocation
> is a royal pain.
> 
> And while the combination of `a little care', `generous upper limit',
> and `certain cases' might allow deterministic behaviour with dynamic
> memory allocation you will still hava a hard time in validating the
> system (or convincing the FAA or another third party about it).

Of course, many embedded and/or real-time systems nowadays are likely
to have some tasks that have the "hardest" deterministic requirements,
while others are provided for external monitoring or manageability of
the system.  I'd expect that in many cases, if the dynamic portion of
the system was not in the primary operational path (e.g., you don't
mind if a person with a monitoring device plugged into the system only
gets their screen updated fractions of a second late) that Python
could very well be suited to such tasks, since it could make them much
more flexible.  As long as the underlying RTOS can ensure that the hard
tasks will always preempt the softer ones deterministically, it would
probably work out well.

--
-- David
-- 
/-----------------------------------------------------------------------\
 \               David Bolen            \   E-mail: db3l at fitlinxx.com  /
  |             FitLinxx, Inc.            \  Phone: (203) 708-5192    |
 /  860 Canal Street, Stamford, CT  06902   \  Fax: (203) 316-5150     \
\-----------------------------------------------------------------------/


From phd at phd.pp.ru  Mon Jan 15 10:14:13 2001
From: phd at phd.pp.ru (Oleg Broytmann)
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 18:14:13 +0300 (MSK)
Subject: Python and ODBC?
In-Reply-To: <m3d7dolwgm.fsf@paci.nautilus>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0101151813230.15657-100000@fep132.fep.ru>

On 15 Jan 2001, Lele Gaifax wrote:
> Sure it has: I'm using Interbase (actually, Firebird), and there are
[skip]
> everywhere with Python :)

   Where is a python module that work with Firebird (just curious)?

Oleg.
----
     Oleg Broytmann            http://phd.pp.ru/            phd at phd.pp.ru
           Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN.




From daniel.dittmar at sap.com  Thu Jan 25 04:17:29 2001
From: daniel.dittmar at sap.com (Daniel Dittmar)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 10:17:29 +0100
Subject: 4NT and Python
References: <n46o49.p5k.ln@mail>
Message-ID: <94oqv9$pk8$1@news1.wdf.sap-ag.de>

>  Does anyone here use 4NT (or any of JPSoft's win32 shell scripting
products)?
> Is there away to pass information dynamically/piping between the Python
and 4NT
> and vice versa? It can be done with REXX

I'm using 4NT, but I never heard of a interface to Python. It would probably
be possible to implement the REXX API for Python. But I guess every
programmer capable of building tis would much prefer to build his own shell
with tighter Python integration (where you could define your own functions
in python etc.).

Daniel

--
Daniel Dittmar
daniel.dittmar at sap.com
SAP DB, SAP Labs Berlin
http://www.sapdb.org/





From max at alcyone.com  Wed Jan 10 16:37:17 2001
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 13:37:17 -0800
Subject: default arguments newbie question
References: <3a5cccca.77467843@localhost> <93ijpa$asp$1@panix3.panix.com>
Message-ID: <3A5CD60D.98CFAD33@alcyone.com>

Aahz Maruch wrote:

> Yup.  Technically, you really want to write "if l is None", though; if
> you don't actually care about it being precisely None, the common
> idiom
> is to write "if l".

Eh?  I don't see that.  Any value which is not None will compare unequal
to None, correct?  Certainly this true for the fundamental types like
strings, numbers, tuples, and lists:

max at charmaine:~% python
Python 2.0 (#5, Nov 10 2000, 21:47:15) 
[GCC egcs-2.91.66 19990314/Linux (egcs-1.1.2 release)] on linux2
Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> s = ''
>>> i = 0
>>> s == None
0
>>> i == None
0
>>> t = ()
>>> () == None
0
>>> l = []
>>> l == None
0

Only None compares equal to None, and since any reference to None _is_
the unique object of type None, the idiom `x == None' is just as valid
as `x is None'.

Now as a matter of style I would agree with you; I idiomatically use `x
is None' to test if x is None, but as a matter of the language I don't
think this stylistic issue is mandated.  (In other words, the
_technically_ in your response should have been a _according to the
style which I prefer_, which is quite a difference.)

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, US / 37 20 N 121 53 W / ICQ16063900 / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ All the people in my neighborhood turn around and get mad and sing
\__/ Public Enemy
    The laws list / http://www.alcyone.com/max/physics/laws/
 Laws, rules, principles, effects, paradoxes, etc. in physics.


From redhouse at my-deja.com  Fri Jan  5 22:58:40 2001
From: redhouse at my-deja.com (redhouse at my-deja.com)
Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2001 03:58:40 GMT
Subject: Problems with py-indent-region in XEmacs
Message-ID: <93655e$rds$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

How can I get XEmacs to change this:

def foo():
    a=5
b=6
c=7

into

def foo():
    a=5
    b=6
    c=7

py-indent-region just leaves it the way it is. When I hit tab line by
line from the top, the right thing happens. I understand the the
indentation has meaning, but I want to be able to paste in a def and
then have XEMacs fix the code. What's up with this?

It seems that py-indent-region (whose source code is badly indented as
well!) does a worse job in this scenario than a naive macro would. Is
there a function which does what I want?

-Carter


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From DanielK at jBASE.com  Mon Jan 15 18:25:23 2001
From: DanielK at jBASE.com (Daniel Klein)
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 15:25:23 -0800
Subject: Determining names of instances
References: <e7L86.554$KD3.238565@typhoon.aracnet.com>
Message-ID: <6LL86.555$KD3.238861@typhoon.aracnet.com>

Never mind all, I just found the 'names' thread which answered the question
quite adequately.

Dan

"Daniel Klein" <DanielK at jBASE.com> wrote in message
news:e7L86.554$KD3.238565 at typhoon.aracnet.com...
> A question I hope has a simple answer. Take the following simple class and
> instance
>
>     class foobar:
>         pass
>
>     foo = foobar()
>
> The question is, is there a way for the object 'foo' to know that its name
> is 'foo'?
>
> Daniel Klein
>
>




From fredrik at effbot.org  Sat Jan 20 05:17:44 2001
From: fredrik at effbot.org (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 10:17:44 GMT
Subject: Unicode, COM, Word Problem
References: <94bkik$1hs$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk>
Message-ID: <cBda6.7736$AH6.1218076@newsc.telia.net>

Kirby James wrote:
> However when I try to print sText (or write it to a file
> output.write(sText)) I get an exception
>     UnicodeError: ASCII encoding error: ordinal not in range(128)

figure out what encoding your output device is using,
and use the "encode" method, e.g:

    output.write(sText.encode("iso-latin-1"))

(if you don't, Python assumes pure ASCII, and chokes
if the string contain anything else).

:::

the locale.getdefaultlocale() function can sometimes be
useful to figure out what encoding to use:

    >>> lang, enc = locale.getdefaultlocale()
    >>> print enc
    'cp1252'

Cheers /F




From dsh8290 at rit.edu  Wed Jan  3 22:53:39 2001
From: dsh8290 at rit.edu (D-Man)
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2001 22:53:39 -0500
Subject: regular expressions: grabbing variables from multiple matches
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10101031903560.14979-100000@salmonfalls.lilybay.com>; from hwhite@chiliad.com on Wed, Jan 03, 2001 at 07:16:49PM -0500
References: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10101031903560.14979-100000@salmonfalls.lilybay.com>
Message-ID: <20010103225339.C1291@westsidecnc.rh.rit.edu>

At first I was confused by what you meant with findall returning a
list of matches, not match objects.

Here's my interpreter session (excuse the poor variable naming, it's
just for testing):

>>> import re
>>> r = re.compile( "asdf" )
>>> m = r.match( "asdf" )
>>> m
<SRE_Match object at 0x8130ca8>
>>> ml = r.findall( "asdfasdf" )
>>> ml
['asdf', 'asdf']
>>> for str in ml :
...     m = r.match( str )
...     print m
... 
<SRE_Match object at 0x8111108>
<SRE_Match object at 0x812ee28>
>>> 


Since findall gives you back the strings that match the regex, you can
go through them and call match() to get a match object.  This should
be faster than matching arbitrary text since you know (in the loop)
all the strings will match.

It will probably hurt performance though, but at least it will be
functional.

HTH,
-D


On Wed, Jan 03, 2001 at 07:16:49PM -0500, Heather Lynn White wrote:
> 
> Suppose I have a regular expression to grab all variations on a meta tag,
> and I will want to extract from any matches the name and content values
> for this tag.
> 
> I use the following re
> 
> MetaTag=re.compile(
> 
> 
> r'''<\s*?(meta|META)\s*?=\s*?"(?P<name>.*?)"\s*?(content|CONTENT)\s*?=\s*?"(?P<content>.*?)"\s*?>'''
> 
> )
> 
> now suppose I have an html document and I want to iterate through all the
> meta tags in that document. If I only catch one, I would say
> 
> matches=MetaTag.match(body)
> if matches:
> 	flds=matches.groupdict()
> 	name=flds["name"]
> 	content=flds["content"]
> 	print name, content
> 
> but this does not work if I use instead findall, to get multiple matches,
> because findall returns a list of matches rather than a list of match
> objects, unlike all the other functions.  Is there a way to extract these
> variables in the way I have done above, but with many matches?
> 
> -heather
> 



From sholden at holdenweb.com  Wed Jan 17 08:04:48 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 08:04:48 -0500
Subject: SQL-Statement with Python
References: <3A62E224.7AEE805E@students.uni-linz.ac.at> <93ut4q031hd@news1.newsguy.com> <R2M86.5299$J76.42003@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com> <941jnd0634@news1.newsguy.com> <K4596.1054$DI.17324@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com> <943vlk02jai@news2.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <OPg96.5664$DI.65547@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>

"Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote:
> "Steve Holden" <sholden at holdenweb.com> wrote:
>     [snip]

> > > Or, simpler and faster, one can show off one's command of 'advanced'
> > > SQL:-), and get the *db engine* to do one's work:
> > >
> > > recordset, result = connection.Execute(
> > >   "Select LastName//', '//FirstName From Employees Order By LastName")
> > > print recordset.GetString().replace('\r','\n')
> > >
> > pretty good, though I would suggest "... Order By LastName, FirstName"
for
> a
> > definitive ordering. Wow, I wish my SQL was that good :-) And in fact
I'm
> > one of those who tend to write SQL keywords in UPPER CASE because that's
> > what I'm used to.
>
> Upper-case keywords is indeed the prevalent style, as is splitting SQL
> statements up into clauses, also for readability:
>
> recordset, result = connection.Execute(
>     "SELECT LastName//', '//FirstName"
>     "  FROM Employees"
>     "  ORDER BY LastName, FirstName"
> )
Interesting to note such stylistic differences. My own preferred notation
for this statement would be something like:

recordset, result = connection.Execute(
"""SELECT LastName//', '//FirstName
    FROM Employees
    ORDER BY LastName, FirstName""")

>
> I guess this IS best, given the complexity of certain SQL statements -- it
> just doesn't come natural to me when plonking down some simple little
> thingy.  My fault.  (Not sure what the 'wish my SQL was that good' quip is
> meant for -- IS there some engine that doesnt do such simple things
right?).
>
Simply irony. I'm learning to do without it, as it's often misunderstood in
the USA, just as sarcasm tends to be mistaken for aggression.

[ ... ]
>
> But that's not really the point here.  The VB/VBscript programmer
> will have to code nested indexed loops anyway since the language
> does not support equivalence between 2d arrays and arrays-of-arrays;
> eg, see http://www.stardeveloper.com/asp_getrows_4.asp for a typical:
>
>          ' Showing Each Row
>          For i = 0 To UBound(ds, 2)
>             Response.Write "<tr>" & vbcrlf
>             ' Showing Each Column
>             For j = 0 To UBound(ds, 1)
>                Response.Write "<td>"
>                Response.Write ds(j, i)
>                Response.Write "</td>"
>                Next
>             Response.Write "</tr>" & vbcrlf
>          Next
>
For this type of construct I tend to use the collection syntax -- I should
emphasise that while I've coded a lot of VBScript I have hardly used VB at
all.

So my equivalent style (not the same code, since I'm lifting this from an
existing web page) would be:

Stmt="SELECT NwsNum, NwsStart, NwsEnd, NwsHead FROM newsitem ORDER BY
"&StrFld
Set RS=Oconn.Execute(Stmt)
%>
<h2>News Items Listed by <%=strHdr%></h2>
<p>Click on the item number to edit the data.</p>
<table>
<%
Do While Not RS.EOF %>
    <tr>
    <td><a href="FormNews.asp?key=<%=RS("NwsNum")%>">
        <%=RS("NwsNum")%></a></td>
    <td>&nbsp;</td><td><%=RS("NwsStart")%> - <%=RS("NwsEnd")%>
        </td><td><%=RS("NwsHead")%></td>
    </tr> <%
    RS.MoveNext
Loop %>
    <tr>
    <td><a href="FormNews.asp">&lt;NEW&gt;</a></td>
    <td>&nbsp;</td><td>Create a news item</td>
    </tr>
</table>

But this makes each field reference very "bulky": teh recordset name, then
the field name surrounded by quotes and parentheses. However, this may well
not use the GetRows() method at all, and be something quite other than what
you are suggesting. I try to avoid looking too far "under the hood" at this
stuff.

[ ... ]
>
> with the same Python snippet.  But I honestly fail to
> see any advantage to this abstruse approach -- seems
> substantially more complex for no performance gain,
> indeed I suspect it would perform less well (but I
> have not taken the trouble to time it:-).
>
let's-not-optimize-what-doesn't-need-optimizing-ly y'rs  - steve



From randy at spoke.net  Thu Jan 11 15:01:39 2001
From: randy at spoke.net (Randall Kern)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 20:01:39 GMT
Subject: Defining a new exception with multiple args
References: <gnir5t80r7asgcp36jtssum2mspk5i5h4d@4ax.com> <mailman.979233912.12772.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Dio76.2527$4v4.189258@dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net>

You could also override __str__:

class RecordNotFoundException(Exception):
    def __init__(self, filename, recordid):
        self.filename = filename
        self.recordid = recordid

    def __str__(self):
        return '%s(%s)' % (self.filename, self.recordid)

This will show a more interesting msg when you raise the error:
>>> raise RecordNotFoundException('foo.db', 5)
Traceback (innermost last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
__main__.RecordNotFoundException: foo.db(5)


-Randy

"D-Man" <dsh8290 at rit.edu> wrote in message
news:mailman.979233912.12772.python-list at python.org...
> On Thu, Jan 11, 2001 at 07:14:25AM -0800, Daniel Klein wrote:
> | Using the Beazley book as a guide, I have defined a new exception as:
> |
> | class RecordNotFoundException(Exception):
> |     def __init__(self, filename, recordid):
> |         self.filename = filename
> |         self.recordid = recordid
> |
>
> Here you have set some instance variables that only exist in your
> class.
>
> | However, this is what happens when I raise this exception:
> |
> | >>> raise RecordNotFoundException("myfile", "myid")
> | Traceback (innermost last):
> |   File "<pyshell#40>", line 1, in ?
> |     raise RecordNotFoundException("myfile", "myid")
> | RecordNotFoundException: <unprintable instance object>
>
> Here the interpreter has the exception instance, but the print
> routine doesn't know about your special arguments.
>
>
> | Why is it showing '<unprintable instance object>' instead of the
arguments I
> | passed?
> |
> | Thanks for any assistence,
> | Daniel Klein
>
> try this:
>
> class MyExcept( Exception ) :
> def __init__( self , *args ) :
> # init the Exception's members
> Exception.__init__( self , args )
>
> raise MyExcept( "hello" )
> raise MyExcept( "hello" , "another arg" )
>
> # You can even type this without any error (that is, other than the one
> # you are explicitly creating ;-))
>
> raise Exception( "first arg" , "second arg" , "etc" )
>
>
> And you will see the arguments printed.  The *args argument is a
> tuple, so when the exception is printed, you will have the arguments
> wrapped in ()'s.  Check the documentation on exceptions,  there is
> probably (at least I hope so) an function you can define that will
> handle custom printing of custom Exceptions.
>
> HTH,
> -D
>
>




From shenwang at my-deja.com  Mon Jan 22 09:20:10 2001
From: shenwang at my-deja.com (shenwang at my-deja.com)
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 14:20:10 GMT
Subject: Question about using event in win32com
Message-ID: <94hfii$hf4$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

When I use makepy to make certain com object
available in python. I can easily use properties
and methods of the dispatched object. But I don't
know to use defined events in that object. How do
assign one of my python function/method to be the
handler of an event? Is there a standard way to
do this in the win32com framework?

Cheers


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From claird at starbase.neosoft.com  Fri Jan  5 08:47:59 2001
From: claird at starbase.neosoft.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: 5 Jan 2001 07:47:59 -0600
Subject: Migrating to perl?
References: <3Fa56.4580$of7.216286@news1.atl> <933fa1$j2i$1@newshost.accu.uu.nl> <ggd56.4652$of7.222552@news1.atl>
Message-ID: <D9CE3277F31E6EC4.E872CB4CF0B0CF08.69BCE6F097403564@lp.airnews.net>

In article <ggd56.4652$of7.222552 at news1.atl>,
Joel Ricker <joejava at dragonat.net> wrote:
			.
			.
			.
>Python?  Has anyone learned OO just from Python?  Or should I study OO
			.
			.
			.
Yes.  Python is a GREAT *first* computing language.
Many people have started with it, and learned OO
without realizing the pain they were supposed to feel.
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at NeoSoft.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://starbase.neosoft.com/~claird/home.html


From claird at starbase.neosoft.com  Thu Jan 11 12:43:59 2001
From: claird at starbase.neosoft.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: 11 Jan 2001 11:43:59 -0600
Subject: Web devel with python. Whats the best route?
References: <93cqvi0191h@news1.newsguy.com> <spenrose-E755EB.22423209012001@news.dnai.com> <93hfp1013sm@news2.newsguy.com> <spenrose-149DD9.22095710012001@news.dnai.com>
Message-ID: <7AD21B55D181870F.5D3FE1CFA39732E6.B776D298F96D5BA5@lp.airnews.net>

In article <spenrose-149DD9.22095710012001 at news.dnai.com>,
Sam Penrose  <spenrose at well.com> wrote:
			.
			.
			.
>1) There is an irreducible need to either put Python statements into 
>HTML or HTML tidbits into Python. You've chosen the former; my 
			.
			.
			.
Idle tangential remark:  the NeoWebScript
<URL:http://starbase.neosoft.com/~claird/comp.infosystems.www.servers.unix/neowebscript.html>
Tcl-savvy server-side interpreter does *both*.
It's configurable enough that you can do either
of these alternatives, and even both, at the same
time.

Yes, you're right:  classic faults that show up
during application development are confused 
"mode" characters ("Is that ' escaping the HTML,
or ...?").
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at NeoSoft.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://starbase.neosoft.com/~claird/home.html


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sat Jan  6 04:53:32 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2001 10:53:32 +0100
Subject: What makes Python Python (was: OO in Python (was Re: Migrating to perl?))
References: <3Fa56.4580$of7.216286@news1.atl> <934ghv02hg0@news2.newsguy.com> <3284C8A2D218D5A4.904FDBE7634A2E21.13E03F073E968847@lp.airnews.net> <934noe02o73@news2.newsguy.com> <200101051648.KAA49133@starbase.neosoft.com>
Message-ID: <936qce0p55@news1.newsguy.com>

"Cameron Laird" <claird at starbase.neosoft.com> wrote in message
news:200101051648.KAA49133 at starbase.neosoft.com...
    [snip]
> Your particulars inspire me to a tangent:  what's makes
> Python's character?  One of the things I thing we should tell
> newcomers is that it's a superlatively "tolerant" language;
> even if you use only tiny pieces of Python, it can feel good.

I think the Python language is 'small' enough that one does
not really 'subset' it all that much in actual use -- big, rich
languages are the ones for which using a subset is most
common.  So, although what you say is true, I think that
maybe it places the emphasis a bit misleadingly.

> Contrast this with, say, Perl, where regular expression-think
> determines so much, or Java, which insists that a strong OO
> model be nearby.  Ask Python to be a procedural language for
> you, though, and it calmly acquiesces.

OK, Python, although being small and simple, is multiparadigm: in
this way, strange as it may seem, it resembles C++!  The latter,
after all, is the canonical example of a OO language which lets
you use it procedurally (and with other degrees of freedom yet,
such as with/without templates).  In fact, in C++, subsetting is
_frequent_ -- it's so big, most users get by on a fraction of it.

Perl is also typically subsetted (inevitably: if there are N ways to
do each task, most people will normally use just 1 or 2 of them),
although I think you're right that basically all actually-used subsets
of it have a regular-expression core.


> So:  how's Python special?  Well, I'll dismiss white space
> and much else as (mere, but also crucial) syntactic sugar.

OK.  Nice, but not the essence.

> Exceptions are important, and distinctive; moreover, they
> predicate multi-method style.

What multi-methods?  We don't have them (Dylan, e.g.,
does).  I may be misreading your meaning...?  Python
exceptions are nice, but the difference with (e.g.) C++'s
or Java's does not seem to be all that huge.

> Similar languages frolic
> pridefully with their overloading, but Python simply expects
> objects to sort out for themselves what to do with messages:
> lovely!  Metaprogramming is some of the best of Python ...
> There's also something (or a couple of things?) to say in
> this context about testing, but I don't yet know how to
> articulate it.

In all of this, the similarity with Smalltalk is strong.  Emphasis
on testing (XP _was_ born for Smalltalk), metaprogramming
possibilities, polymorphism via dynamic runtime dispatching
(objects responding to messages).


I'm afraid I haven't answered your question.  What I see is
a range of aspects, each pretty good, but, also, each rather
similar to corresponding areas of one or more other languages.
The really strange thing is, the various parts meld into a
whole that is greater than the sum of the parts!  If I
"designed" a language by cherry-picking thinks I liked from
others, the result would be sure to be an unholy mess.  Guido
somehow managed to get synergy and power instead!  I _think_
the emphasis on "utter simplicity (tempered by an ounce of
very solid Dutch common sense)" is the real secret in the mix;
perhaps, the emphasis on simplicity _in the implementation_
*helps*, by imposing nonobvious underlying constraints that
push in the right direction.  Just musing aloud...!


Alex





From mikael at isy.liu.se  Tue Jan 30 07:22:02 2001
From: mikael at isy.liu.se (Mikael Olofsson)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 13:22:02 +0100 (MET)
Subject: Python vs Ruby
In-Reply-To: <955vih$j5g$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <XFMail.010130132202.mikael@isy.liu.se>

On 30-Jan-01 peterhi at my-deja.com wrote:
 >  Peter Hickman - Writing applications not programs.

<irrelevant comment>
You are at Hamming distance 1 from a mathematician at our university.

  http://www.mai.liu.se/TM/staff/pehac-e.html

</irrelevant comment>

/Mikael

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Phone:   +46 - (0)13 - 28 1343
Telefax: +46 - (0)13 - 28 1339
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From quinn at barf.ugcs.caltech.edu  Thu Jan 25 01:54:22 2001
From: quinn at barf.ugcs.caltech.edu (Quinn Dunkan)
Date: 25 Jan 2001 06:54:22 GMT
Subject: The fundamentals...
References: <F8Jb6.30683$pp2.2619941@news3.cableinet.net> <W9Kb6.163783$15.36164558@news1.rdc1.az.home.com>
Message-ID: <slrn96vjcu.ldj.quinn@barf.ugcs.caltech.edu>

On Thu, 25 Jan 2001 00:10:30 GMT, Tim Hochberg <tim.hochberg at ieee.org> wrote:
>"Mike Read" <mread at cableinet.co.uk> wrote in message
>news:F8Jb6.30683$pp2.2619941 at news3.cableinet.net...
>> Newbie first script alert!  No problem - it does what I intended (which
>> probably says more about Python than me...), but I just wanted to start
>> off on the right foot - is it as elegant as it could be?  If it's not
>blindingly
>> obvious, I was separating fields around a period delimiter.
>
>Hi Mike,
>
>There are a couple of things you can do to make it more concise. First, you
>can use replace rather than split and join. Second, you can use string
>methods instead of the functions from the module string. With these two
>changes, it becomes:
>
>infile = open('\\Windows\\Desktop\\test.txt', 'r')
>outfile = open('\\Windows\\Desktop\\out.txt', 'w')
>outfile.write(infile.read().replace(". ", "\n"))
>infile.close()
>outfile.close()

I don't know about windows-land, but at least in unix-land, it would be more
elegant and useful to read from stdin and write to stdout:

import sys
sys.stdout.write(sys.stdin.read().replace('. ', '\n'))

Of course, in unix-land one might be more likely to write

sed -e 's/\. /\
/g'

... which may be enough to make one despise unix-land for the bizarre quoting
rules of the standard shells.


From gregj at pobox.com  Sat Jan 20 22:58:22 2001
From: gregj at pobox.com (Greg Jorgensen)
Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 03:58:22 GMT
Subject: string.split returns empty when unaccessed
References: <mailman.980047224.17889.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <94dmos$mfi$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

I can't tell for sure from the code you posted, but the "data" variable
of the D104 class is empty until the __repr__ method is invoked. I'm
assunming the getWaypoints() method just returns self.data. So if you
call getWaypoints before __repr__ is invoked the reference you get back
refers to the still-empty data variable. Once the __repr__ method is
invoked by print the data variable contains the string you want to pass
to split().

Why not just have getWaypoints return a dictionary instead?

--
Greg Jorgensen
Portland, Oregon, USA


gregj at pobox.comIn article <mailman.980047224.17889.python-
list at python.org>,
  Jonathan Pennington <john at coastalgeology.org> wrote:
> I'm having a problem spliting a string that is not accessed in some
> way before the split. I am using the pygarmin module (modified) and
> wxPython to build a GUI mapping program on a FreeBSD system with the
> Python port v2.0. The code that retrieves the list is very long and
> spans 3 modules, so it is not included here. I'm hoping that this is a
> known problem or at least understandable from this limited info, and
> the code is not needed, but I can provide it offlist if necessary.
>
> Given a string foo returned from a class instance, string.split(foo,
> 'sep') returns [''] instead of a list of string items. However, if I
> print foo, then try string.split(foo, 'sep') I *will* get a good
> list. Copying as foo = foo[:] before splitting causes the same
> behavior.
>
> What happens is:
>
> > gps = garmin(UnixSerialLink('/dev/cuaa0'))
> > w = gps.getWaypoints()
> > t = string.split(w, '|R|')
> > print t
> ['']
> > w = gps.getWaypoints()
> > w = w[:]
> > t = string.split(w,'|R|')
> > print t
> ['']
> > w = gps.getWaypoints()
> > print 'w'
> [... waypoints ...]
> > t = string.split(w,'|R|')
> > print t
> ['name:V:stuff','cmnt:V:more stuff','lat:V:number','lon:V:number'...]
>
> I can't figure out why that would happen, has anyone seen this before?
> I can't seem to find a reference to the behavior anywhere. I'm still
> new to the Python object model, but referencing it before splitting
> doesn't seem like it should change it at all.
>
> I've changed quite a bit in PyGarmin and there's a lot of code
> accessed, but the instance that returns the string is below. Thanks.
>
> --------------class follows---------------------
>
> import UserString
> class D104(Waypoint, UserString.UserString):
>    parts = Waypoint.parts + ("dst", "smbl", "dspl")
>    fmt = "<6s l l L 40s f h b"
>
>    def __init__(self, ident="", slat=0L, slon=0L, cmnt="", dst=0L,
smbl=0L, dspl=0L):
>       self.ident = ident         # text identidier (upper case)
>       self.slat = slat           # lat & long in semicircle terms
>       self.slon = slon
>       self.cmnt = cmnt           # comment (must be upper case)
>       self.unused = 0L
>       self.dst = dst                  # proximity distance (m)
>       self.smbl = smbl                   # symbol_type id
>       self.dspl = dspl                   # D104 display option
>       self.data = ""
>
>    def __repr__(self):
>       self.data = "name:V:%s|R|cmnt:V:%s|R|lat:V:%i|R|lon:V:%
i|R|dst:V:%i|R|smbl:V:%i|R|dspl:V:%i" % \
>              (self.ident, self.cmnt, self.slat, self.slon, self.dst, \
>               self.smbl, self.dspl)
>       return self.data
>
> --
> Jonathan Pennington		| http://coastalgeology.org
> Site Manager			| Protection and stewardship
> CoastalGeology.Org (CGO)	| through public education.
> john at coastalgeology.org		| Join CGO, make a difference.
>
>


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From phd at phd.pp.ru  Sun Jan 14 07:53:14 2001
From: phd at phd.pp.ru (Oleg Broytmann)
Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 15:53:14 +0300 (MSK)
Subject: BOOTP and TFTP servers in Python?
In-Reply-To: <slrn9622r4.62n.grante@isis.visi.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0101141551520.12184-100000@fep132.fep.ru>

On Sun, 14 Jan 2001, Grant Edwards wrote:
> Is it possible to write a BOOTP server in Python using the standard socket
> libs?

   What is in BOOTP protocols that you are afraid you caould not implement
it? I am pretty sure there is nothing special in the BOOTP, and Python has
full TCP/IP support.

Oleg.
----
     Oleg Broytmann            http://phd.pp.ru/            phd at phd.pp.ru
           Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN.




From teep at inet.co.th  Thu Jan  4 02:00:32 2001
From: teep at inet.co.th (Prateep Siamwalla)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 14:00:32 +0700
Subject: Iterating over multiple lists (a newbie question)
References: <3a539f3a.445366109@localhost> <930mb2$u7p$1@news.inet.co.th>
Message-ID: <9316uj$1o8$1@news.inet.co.th>

woops, i should have run the loop this way:
> a = [1,2,3,4,5]
> b = ['a','b','c','d','e']
>
> c = zip(a,b)
> for i,j in c:
>     print i,j



Prateep Siamwalla <teep at inet.co.th> wrote in message
news:930mb2$u7p$1 at news.inet.co.th...
> This is what I usually do when I run into your situation
>
> a = [1,2,3,4,5]
> b = ['a','b','c','d','e']
>
> c = zip(a,b)
> for i in c:
>     print i[0],i[1]
>
>
> Victor Muslin <victor at prodigy.net> wrote in message
> news:3a539f3a.445366109 at localhost...
> > This may be rather silly, but I can't think of a clever way...
> >
> > To traverse a single list the code is:
> >
> > for item in list:
> > print item
> >
> > However, if there are multiple lists (of the same length) is there a
> > cleverer way to do the following:
> >
> > for i in range(0,len(list1)):
> > print list1[i], list2[i]
> >
> > I would like something like this (which obviously does not work):
> >
> > for one,two in list1, list2:
> > print one,two
> >
> > TIA
>
>




From fredrik at effbot.org  Wed Jan 10 12:14:54 2001
From: fredrik at effbot.org (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 17:14:54 GMT
Subject: why is this namespace weirdness happening?
References: <93i3f7$122$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <iM076.5607$AH6.791452@newsc.telia.net>

Preston Landers wrote:
> I noticed some namespace/import behavior that seems weird to me.  It
> happens in both Python 1.5.2 and 2.0 (though the error message is
> different.) Sorry if this is a FAQ; maybe someone could briefly explain
> why this happens.
>
> file1.py:---------------------
>
> import file2
>
> def foo():
>     import file2
>     # the line below fails if the line above is cmted out
>     # but works fine if present
>     print "file2 bar: ", file2.bar
>     import file2
>     print "file2 baz: ", file2.baz
>
> foo()
>
> file2.py:---------------------
>
> bar = 1
> baz = 2
>
> ------------------------------
>
> It seems that on the file1 "bar" line, if the 'import file2' above it is
> commented out, the file2.bar reference will fail (file2 being the
> unrecognized item.)  Despite the 'import file2' at the top of the file.

didn't I just reply to a very similar question?

oh, yes.  here it is:

:::

From: "Fredrik Lundh" <fredrik at effbot.org>
Subject: Re: Name Error
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2001

/.../

Inside a function or method, a name can be either local (in
the function's namespace) or global (in the module's name-
space).

To figure out what's what, Python's compiler looks for assign-
ments inside the function body.   Any name you assign to [1]
is considered to be local, any other name is global.

Note that affects all uses of a name inside a function body.
if you try to access a local variable before you've assigned
any value to it, Python will raise an exception, rather than
look in the module namespace.

/.../

1) Assignments also include arguments (assigned during the call),
def/class statements, and imports.

:::

hope this helps!

Cheers /F

<!-- (the eff-bot guide to) the standard python library:
http://www.pythonware.com/people/fredrik/librarybook.htm
-->




From m.bless at gmx.de  Tue Jan 30 17:10:44 2001
From: m.bless at gmx.de (Martin Bless)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 22:10:44 GMT
Subject: Roadmap wanted: Python access to SPIRIT.OCX (Win9x)
Message-ID: <3a7b39da.39409649@news.muenster.de>

(1) Learning Python ist fun.
(2) Playing with the LEGO Mindstorms system building robots is fun.

Using Python to control LEGO Mindstorms would be triple fun.

Everything in LEGO is controlled by a fully registered SPIRIT.OCX
(Win9x)

(3) Is somebody already using Python to control SPIRIT.OCX?

(4) And can somebody give me a short roadmap how to proceed?

Martin




From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Jan  8 23:23:26 2001
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2001 23:23:26 -0500
Subject: Thank you (was Re: Should I learn Python or Java?)
References: <HEO56.5504$y9.2881293@typhoon.we.rr.com> <G2V56.5826$y9.3184141@typhoon.we.rr.com> <mailman.978901087.32745.python-list@python.org> <3A593236.6331BE0C@engcorp.com> <mailman.978966549.13022.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3A5A923E.AC1F3EE6@engcorp.com>

D-Man wrote:
> 
> On Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 10:21:26PM -0500, Peter Hansen wrote:
> | Given how easy it has been to demonstrate the
> | advantages of Python over many alternatives, I would
> | think you could successfully build yourself an opportunity
> | to program in Python in your next company.
> |
> 
> The company I am working for now uses Java for the SDK and runtime
> library.  Part of the purpose of the product is to generate a Java
> class that our customers can use to do screen scraping from Java
> apps/applets.  Due to the nature of this product and its target
> audience it is rather tied to Java.

I've found that there are always many applications to 
be found beyond the basic core work that a company does.
My company builds RF repeater devices ('coverage extension
products') which don't directly involve Python.  On the
other hand, the development environment involves dozens
of utilities of various levels of complexity, all written
in Python (with a few minor exceptions).  The production
testing environment has now been automated with Python.
We use Python for some PC applications which will 
end up as complementary products customers will use
with our 'real' products.

Even when I was doing Java work I needed the benefits
of Python for a variety of scripting applications.
Didn't have it at the time, but that was just my own
bad luck.  Don't let people in your company try to 
force you into using Java for inappropriate work (such
as internal utilities), and don't let them get away
with using languages other than Python in other areas
if you feel Python would be more suitable.


From amk at mira.erols.com  Fri Jan 26 19:49:52 2001
From: amk at mira.erols.com (A.M. Kuchling)
Date: 27 Jan 2001 00:49:52 GMT
Subject: Advice for a first project
References: <3A70BC6C.333AC9F8@NO_SPAM_PLEASE.benettonformula.com>
Message-ID: <slrn9747jo.gm.amk@mira.erols.com>

Quinn Dunkan's followup to your question is a good one, but I'd like to 
raise one higher-level issue.

On Thu, 25 Jan 2001 23:53:16 +0000, 
	AlisdairM <alisdair.meredith at NO_SPAM_PLEASE.benettonformula.com> wrote:
>The basic project will be our source-code archiver/release manager.  We

Have you already looked at existing source code control systems such
as CVS, simple RCS, Perforce, Bitkeeper, &c?  Bugs in a source code
archiver could be really costly; if you have to roll back to an
earlier version and then discover that the earlier versions are
corrupt, well, that would be disastrous.  Existing systems also offer
more features than you can probably find the time to implement --
branches, showing diffs, network access -- and there are third-party
tools built around them (ViewCVS/Bonsai/cvsweb for browsing through a
CVS repository on the Web, syncmail for sending e-mail notifications,
etc.).  There's no need to reinvent the wheel, particularly when
you're going to be putting an awful lot of weight on it.

--amk


From jcollins at endtech.com  Wed Jan  3 11:37:29 2001
From: jcollins at endtech.com (Jeff Collins)
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2001 09:37:29 -0700 (MST)
Subject: time.mktime bug in 2.0?
In-Reply-To: <92vi86$7cp$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0101030936240.7377-100000@euclid.endtech.com>

The argument is a 9-tuple:

time.mktime((1999,12,21,0,0,0,0,0,0))


On Wed, 3 Jan 2001 wmiller34 at my-deja.com wrote:

> I'm getting this "TypeError" when I use mktime in 2.0.  It works in
> 1.52.  Any ideas?
> 
> >>> import time
> >>> t = time.mktime(1999,12,21,0,0,0,0,0,0)
> Traceback (innermost last):
>   File "<interactive input>", line 1, in ?
> TypeError: mktime requires exactly 1 argument; 9 given
> 
> 
> -Walter
> 
> 
> Sent via Deja.com
> http://www.deja.com/
> 

-- 
Jeffery D. Collins, Ph.D.
Sr. Software Developer
Endeavors Technology, Inc.




From tjreedy at udel.edu  Wed Jan 24 15:16:10 2001
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 15:16:10 -0500
Subject: [Tutorial] Replacing multiple (el)ifs with one dictionary access
Message-ID: <94nd3q$66e$1@news.udel.edu>

[Tutorial posting for Python beginners]

In a nice response to a question by Oliver Vecernik <vecernik at aon.at> ,
Emile van Sebille <emile at fenx.com>  included the following code,
which is similar to other snippets occasionally posted to comp.lang.python.

if REQUEST.printLoc == "California":
  printerID = r"\\nova104\weber"
  printerDevice = "LPT2"
  outFile = r'f:\CA_Label.txt'
  batFile = r'f:\CA_Label.cmd'
 elif REQUEST.printLoc == "Illinois":
  printerID = r"\\shipping\webera1"
  printerDevice = "LPT3"
  outFile = r'f:\IL_Label.txt'
  batFile = r'f:\IL_Label.cmd'
 elif REQUEST.printLoc == "None":
  printerID = r"\\fclt\weber"
  printerDevice = "LPT2"
  outFile = r'f:\FX_Test.txt'
  batFile = r'f:\FX_Test.cmd'

Such multiple-if  switches with redundant parallel bodies look like literal
translations into Python of code or thought-forms based on other languages
that lack some of Python's features.  They can often be replaced with one
Python dictionary access.  The condensed code below makes the parellelism
clearer and easier to extend to additional printLocs

PrintDict = {   #printerID,          printerDevice,  outFile,
BatFile
  "California": (r"\\nova104\weber",    "LPT2",  r'f:\CA_Label.txt',
r'f:\CA_Label.cmd'),
  "Illinois":      (r\\shipping\webera1",  "LPT3",  r'f:\IL_Label.txt',
r'f:\IL_Label.cmd'),
  "None":         (r"\\fclt\weber",            "LPT2",  r'f:\FX_Test.txt'.
r'f:\FX_Test.cmd')
  }
printerID, printerDevice, outFile, batFile = PrintDict[REQUEST.printLoc]

This version uses two Python features, dictionary access and tuple
unpacking, that have no direct equivalent in many of the languages that
people learn before Python.  They are therefore easy to sometimes
underutilize.  In particular, the 'proper' Pythonic equivalent of a case or
switch statement in other languages is often a dictionary access rather
than a series of if/elif blocks.

Terry J. Reedy   tjreedy at udel.edu







From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Jan 19 05:54:48 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 11:54:48 +0100
Subject: How to run script from interpreter?
References: <mailman.979855413.16209.python-list@python.org> <t6f37pmhbtd94@corp.supernews.com> <mailman.979898969.13587.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9496dp0e7j@news2.newsguy.com>

"Dan Rolander" <dan.rolander at marriott.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.979898969.13587.python-list at python.org...
> This doesn't work for me. I know how to import and how to use the if
> __name__ trick, but how can I execute a script from the interactive Python
> interpreter? That is, can I load a script and have it run from inside the
> interpreter? (I'm sure this is easy I'm just not seeing it.)

Suppose you have, somewhere on the path Python searches, a
file foo.py containing the single Python statement:

print "I'm being executed"

When, at the interactive interpreter prompt, you type an import
statement:

>>> import foo
I'm being executed
>>>

module foo.py has been loaded and, since this was the first time
it was imported in this session, its module-level code was executed.

Another import statement will NOT repeat execution of the module's
code...:

>>> import foo
>>>

No execution in this case, because it was not the first import
in this session!

You can, however, force such re-execution by reloading the
module object after having imported it:

>>> reload(foo)
I'm being executed
<module 'foo' from 'foo.pyc'>
>>>

The reload function also returns the new module-object, which
is why we see this second line here (the interpreter is showing
it to us) -- if you don't want this little bother just assign it:

>>> _=reload(goo)
I'm being executed
>>>


Alex





From J.A.vanGameren at wxs.nl  Sun Jan  7 13:14:16 2001
From: J.A.vanGameren at wxs.nl (Arjan van Gameren)
Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2001 19:14:16 +0100
Subject: Check out DBMS World :  http://home.wxs.nl/~agameren/dbms !!!
Message-ID: <93ablm$ct3d$1@reader03.wxs.nl>

Check out DBMS World :  http://home.wxs.nl/~agameren/dbms !!!

All the best about Databases, programming languages and tools.

Don't forget to take a look at The DBMS World FORUM where you can meet the
rest of the DBMS Community and talk to each other.


Have fun,

Arjan





From baasad at qualitynet.net  Wed Jan 31 19:07:45 2001
From: baasad at qualitynet.net (bashar A. Asad)
Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 03:07:45 +0300
Subject: how about webware
Message-ID: <95au2d$65d2@news.qualitynet.net>

hello;
I would like to know what do you guys think of webware as an application
server.   can I compare it to for example webobjects by apple ?
thankx

bashar


From nas at arctrix.com  Wed Jan 24 11:58:46 2001
From: nas at arctrix.com (Neil Schemenauer)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 08:58:46 -0800
Subject: The fundamentals...
In-Reply-To: <F8Jb6.30683$pp2.2619941@news3.cableinet.net>; from mread@cableinet.co.uk on Wed, Jan 24, 2001 at 11:00:53PM +0000
References: <F8Jb6.30683$pp2.2619941@news3.cableinet.net>
Message-ID: <20010124085846.A32572@glacier.fnational.com>

Its probably clearer use string.replace.  Using ?!ng's excellent
pydoc command:

    $ pydoc string.replace

    Python Library Documentation: function replace in string

    replace(s, old, new, maxsplit=-1)
        replace (str, old, new[, maxsplit]) -> string
        
        Return a copy of string str with all occurrences of substring
        old replaced by new. If the optional argument maxsplit is
        given, only the first maxsplit occurrences are replaced.


So you can do:

    boo = string.replace(". ", "\n")

In Python 2.0 or later you can use string methods:

    boo = boo.replace(". ", "\n")

Cheers,

  Neil



From not.this at seebelow.org  Tue Jan 30 22:04:27 2001
From: not.this at seebelow.org (Grant Griffin)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 21:04:27 -0600
Subject: curly-brace-aphobic?
References: <3A74EBD6.3C87FD15@seebelow.org> <slrn97a9fu.7sf.clgonsal@keeshah.penguinpowered.com> <3A757FBE.E54C5ECD@seebelow.org> <mailman.980789494.4239.python-list@python.org> <slrn97c6bs.bjo.scarblac@pino.selwerd.nl> <mailman.980870616.378.python-list@python.org> <95718r018s8@drn.newsguy.com> <mailman.980896597.32520.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3A7780BB.CE7E09C0@seebelow.org>

D-Man wrote:
> 
> On Tue, Jan 30, 2001 at 10:30:51AM -0800, Grant Griffin wrote:
> | In article <mailman.980870616.378.python-list at python.org>, D-Man says...
> | >
> | ...
> | >I still maintain my postiion that a list is really a special case of a
> | >dictionary, on a theoretical level.
> |
> 
> You snipped my next conclusion here.

Sorry 'bout that!
...

(just-couldn't-resist!)-ly y'rs,

=g2
-- 
_____________________________________________________________________

Grant R. Griffin                                       g2 at dspguru.com
Publisher of dspGuru                           http://www.dspguru.com
Iowegian International Corporation            http://www.iowegian.com


From fgeiger at datec.at  Thu Jan 25 05:01:25 2001
From: fgeiger at datec.at (Franz GEIGER)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 11:01:25 +0100
Subject: Migrate Python prototype to C++: regex?
Message-ID: <94oti8$95v$1@newsreaderm1.core.theplanet.net>

This is probably off-topic but I guess Pythoneers have a better
understanding of this question than C++ programmers only programming C++.

I do a lot of prototyping with Python. A lot of those prototype have to be
implemented in C++ (MSVC/MFC). STL gives (rather good) support of what
Pythin already has built-in. But I strongly miss regex. How do you proceed
in the case of regex in Python? Can anyone recommend a regex package for
C++? Is there anything like that? Or do you write regexp an other way round
somehow?

Thanks in advance and best regards
Franz GEIGER






From cpr at emsoftware.com  Mon Jan 15 17:01:33 2001
From: cpr at emsoftware.com (Chris Ryland)
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 22:01:33 GMT
Subject: Remote Python Debugger
References: <T7F86.3524$Oe.17120@tor-nn1.netcom.ca>
Message-ID: <93vrvo$6pa$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

In article <T7F86.3524$Oe.17120 at tor-nn1.netcom.ca>,
  "Warren Postma" <embed at NO_SPAM_PLEASE.geocities.com> wrote:
> Has anyone implemented a Graphical Remote Python Debugger? [snip]

You might investigate the remote debugger that the Archaeopteryx folks
have implemented in their commercial IDE Wings: <archaeopteryx.com>.
--
Chris Ryland * Em Software, Inc. * www.emsoftware.com


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From sheila at spamcop.net  Sat Jan 27 21:07:04 2001
From: sheila at spamcop.net (Sheila King)
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 02:07:04 GMT
Subject: [Off topic] allowed to put Python material on the Web?
References: <mailman.980634213.15110.python-list@python.org> <t76rcujhrg4aa0@corp.supernews.com> <g5u67tsp6qvbuqf8glutb44bbpvbk97cg0@4ax.com> <sbLc6.87890$xW4.674642@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
Message-ID: <plv67tc9aabkq64hjgf3rmrmcfccek8f6e@4ax.com>

On Sun, 28 Jan 2001 02:09:28 GMT, "Neil Hodgson" <neilh at scintilla.org> wrote
in comp.lang.python in article
<sbLc6.87890$xW4.674642 at news-server.bigpond.net.au>:

:   Maybe I need to start giving explicit permissions at the end of each
:message:
:
:--
:All material created by me in this article is in the public domain.
:Neil

 ;D



--
Sheila King
http://www.thinkspot.net/sheila/
http://www.k12groups.org/


From sven.hohage at zeitspringer.de  Wed Jan  3 06:50:16 2001
From: sven.hohage at zeitspringer.de (Sven Hohage)
Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 12:50:16 +0100
Subject: UML-tool
Message-ID: <3A5311F8.52984B6E@zeitspringer.de>

Hello,
I'm asking myself if there are any UML-tools for Python.
I've used ObjectDomain which was very unsatisfying(horrible JAVA).
Are there any other tools??
 Thanks.



From joejava at dragonat.net  Sun Jan  7 22:59:54 2001
From: joejava at dragonat.net (Joel Ricker)
Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2001 22:59:54 -0500
Subject: Basic module question:
References: <B67E91CD.A22E%stanton@livsform.com> <Zja66.589$_e7.31014@news2.atl> <B67EA469.A36A%stanton@livsform.com>
Message-ID: <10b66.618$_e7.32834@news2.atl>

Stanton Schell wrote in message ...

>Ah, thank you Joel.  one other thing.  when you refer to the 'module's
>documentation', are you referring to the sys module documentation or the
>sys.stdin documentation - the reason I ask is I looked all over for
>documentation on sys.stdin


I meant that more in general terms that hopefully the modules documentation
would list functions and variables but that may not always be the case.  If
there is documentation for sys.stdin I'm not sure where to tell you to look
as I've been a python user for only about a few days (see .sig for exact
time).
--

I have been Perl-Free for 3 Days, 1 Hours, 9 Minutes, and 44 Seconds.
------------------------------------------------------------
Joel Ricker   joejava at dragoncat.net
  Just Another Python Hacker





From dan.rolander at marriott.com  Sat Jan 13 05:37:48 2001
From: dan.rolander at marriott.com (Dan Rolander)
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 05:37:48 -0500
Subject: Help required with wxGrid
References: <93ovgf$g9m$1@gossamer.itmel.bhp.com.au>
Message-ID: <011a01c07d4c$dfda8340$11260340@yin>

There is a separate list for wxPython:
http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wxpython-users

Dan

----- Original Message -----
From: "Austin Wilson" <wilson.austin.aj at bhp.com.au>
Newsgroups: comp.lang.python
To: <python-list at python.org>
Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2001 2:18 AM
Subject: Help required with wxGrid


> Hi
>
> I am experimenting with wxGrid (part of wxPython) and was wondering if it
is
> possible for a long string of text which is typed into one cell be
rendered
> such that it overflows into the adjacent cell (as long os that cell is
> empty) rather than being truncated or wrapped.  Microsoft Excel does this
by
> default.
>
> Thanks
> Austin
>
>
> --
> http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>




From frank_ihlenburg at yahoo.com  Tue Jan  9 05:11:10 2001
From: frank_ihlenburg at yahoo.com (frank ihlenburg)
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 02:11:10 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Fwd: Python 2.0 problems
Message-ID: <20010109101110.8391.qmail@web4403.mail.yahoo.com>


Note: forwarded message attached.


=====
Frank Ihlenburg
Lotsenring 12
23968 Wismar, Germany

Tel: +49 (0)3841 636051

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online!
http://photos.yahoo.com/
-------------- next part --------------
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Subject: Python 2.0 problems
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 01:58:48 -0800 (PST)
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From rdasilva at connecttel.com  Sun Jan 14 09:52:15 2001
From: rdasilva at connecttel.com (Rosimildo da Silva)
Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 14:52:15 GMT
Subject: BOOTP and TFTP servers in Python?
References: <slrn9622r4.62n.grante@isis.visi.com>
Message-ID: <3A61BFCC.8B2BB3F4@connecttel.com>

Grant Edwards wrote:
> 
> I need a self-contained BOOTP and TFTP server application for Linux
> (portibility to other Unices would be a plus).  I'd like to write it in
> Python if possible.
> 
> Is it possible to write a BOOTP server in Python using the standard socket
> libs?  Since TFTP is a normal UDP based protocol, I know a TFTP server is
> possible: does one exist already?


Somebody posted this a couple of weeks back....:


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[[ This message was both posted and mailed: see
   the "To," "Cc," and "Newsgroups" headers for details. ]]

hola.

Gregory Trubetskoy <grisha at ispol.com> wrote:
> is there by a chance a tftplib.py or something that implements tftp
in
> Python out there?

I have this thing lying around.  You will probably want to modify it,
but it's a complete TFTP server implementation.

I have started a tftplib.py, but I never finished it...

-----------------------------

#!/usr/bin/env python

#
# Standard imports
#
import string
import struct, socket, select
import thread

#
# Default variables
#
TFTP_PORT = 69


#
# TFTP Errors
#
class TFTPError(Exception):
    pass


#
# A class for a TFTP Connection
#
class TFTPConnection:

    RRQ  = 1
    WRQ  = 2
    DATA = 3
    ACK  = 4
    ERR  = 5
    HDRSIZE = 4  # number of bytes for OPCODE and BLOCK in header

    def __init__(self, host="", port=0,
                 blocksize=512, timeout=2.0, retry=5 ):
        self.host = host
    self.port = port
    self.blocksize = blocksize
        self.timeout   = timeout
        self.retry     = retry

    self.client_addr = None
    self.sock        = None
    self.active      = 0
    self.blockNumber = 0
    self.lastpkt     = ""

        self.mode        = ""
        self.filename    = ""
    self.file        = None

        self.bind(host, port)
    # end __init__

    def bind(self, host="", port=0):
    sock = socket.socket(socket.AF_INET, socket.SOCK_DGRAM)
        self.sock = sock
        if host or port:
        sock.bind(host, port)
    # end start

    def send(self, pkt=""):
    self.sock.sendto(pkt, self.client_addr)
    self.lastpkt = pkt
    # end send

    def recv(self):
        sock        = self.sock
        F           = sock.fileno()
        client_addr = self.client_addr
        timeout     = self.timeout            
        retry       = self.retry

        while retry:
            r,w,e = select.select( [F], [], [F], timeout)
            if not r:
                # We timed out -- retransmit
                retry = retry - 1
                self.retransmit()
            else:
                # Read data packet
                pktsize = self.blocksize + self.HDRSIZE
                data, addr = sock.recvfrom(pktsize)
                if addr == client_addr:
                    break
        else:
            raise TFTPError(4, "Transfer timed out")
        # end while
        
        return self.parse(data)
    # end recv

    def parse(self, data, unpack=struct.unpack):
        buf = buffer(data)
        pkt = {}
        opcode = pkt["opcode"] = unpack("!h", buf[:2])[0]
        if ( opcode == self.RRQ ) or ( opcode == self.WRQ ):
            filename, mode, junk  = string.split(data[2:], "\000")
            pkt["filename"] = filename
            pkt["mode"]     = mode
        elif opcode == self.DATA:
            block  = pkt["block"] = unpack("!h", buf[2:4])[0]
            data   = pkt["data"]  = buf[4:]
        elif opcode == self.ACK:
            block  = pkt["block"] = unpack("!h", buf[2:4])[0]
        elif opcode == self.ERR:
            errnum = pkt["errnum"] = unpack("!h", buf[2:4])[0]
            errtxt = pkt["errtxt"] = buf[4:-1]
        else:
            raise TFTPError(4, "Unknown packet type")

        return pkt
    # end recv

    def retransmit(self):
        self.sock.sendto(self.lastpkt, self.client_addr)
        return
    # end retransmit

    def connect(self, addr, data):
    self.client_addr = addr
        RRQ  = self.RRQ
        WRQ  = self.WRQ
        DATA = self.DATA
        ACK  = self.ACK
        ERR  = self.ERR

    try:
            pkt    = self.parse(data)
            opcode = pkt["opcode"]
            if opcode not in (RRQ, WRQ):
                raise TFTPError(4, "Bad request")
            
            # Start lock-step transfer
            self.active = 1
            if opcode == RRQ:
                self.handleRRQ(pkt)
            else:
                self.handleWRQ(pkt)

            # Loop until done
            while self.active:
                pkt = self.recv()
                opcode = pkt["opcode"]
                if opcode == DATA:
                    self.recvData(pkt)
                elif opcode == ACK:
                    self.recvAck(pkt)
                elif opcode == ERR:
                    self.recvErr(pkt)
                else:
                    raise TFTPError(5, "Invalid opcode")
    except TFTPError, detail:
        self.sendError( detail[0], detail[1] )

    return
    # end connection


    def recvAck(self, pkt):
        if pkt["block"] == self.blockNumber:
            # We received the correct ACK
            self.handleACK(pkt)
        return
    # end recvAck

    def recvData(self, pkt):
        if pkt["block"] == self.blockNumber:
            # We received the correct DATA packet
            self.active = ( self.blocksize == len(pkt["data"]) )
            self.handleDATA(pkt)
        return
    # end recvError

    def recvErr(self, pkt):
        self.handleERR(pkt)
        self.retransmit()
    # end recvErr
    
    def sendData(self, data, pack=struct.pack):
        blocksize = self.blocksize
        block     = self.blockNumber = self.blockNumber + 1
        lendata   = len(data)
    format = "!hh%ds" % lendata
    pkt = pack(format, self.DATA, block, data)
        self.send(pkt)
    self.active  = (len(data) == blocksize)
    # end sendData

    def sendAck(self, pack=struct.pack):
        block            = self.blockNumber
        self.blockNumber = self.blockNumber + 1
    format = "!hh"
    pkt = pack(format, self.ACK, block)
        self.send(pkt)
    # end sendAck
        
    def sendError(self, errnum, errtext, pack=struct.pack):
        errtext = errtext + "\000"
    format = "!hh%ds" % len(errtext)
    outdata = pack(format, self.ERR, errnum, errtext)
    self.sock.sendto(outdata, self.client_addr)
    return
    # end sendError


    #
    #
    # Override these handle* methods as needed
    #
    #
    def handleRRQ(self, pkt):
        filename  = pkt["filename"]
        mode      = pkt["mode"]
        self.file = self.readRequest(filename, mode)
        self.sendData( self.file.read(self.blocksize) )
        return
    # end readFile

    def handleWRQ(self, pkt):
        filename  = pkt["filename"]
        mode      = pkt["mode"]
        self.file = self.writeRequest(filename, mode)
        self.sendAck()
        return
    # end writeFile

    def handleACK(self, pkt):
        if self.active:
            self.sendData( self.file.read(self.blocksize) )
        return
    # end handle ACK
    
    def handleDATA(self, pkt):
        self.sendAck()
        data = pkt["data"]
        self.file.write( data )
    # end handleDATA
        
    def handleERR(self, pkt):
        print pkt["errtxt"]
        return
    # end handleERR

    #
    # You should definitely override these
    #
    def readRequest(self, filename, mode):
        from StringIO import StringIO
        return StringIO("")
    # end readRequest

    def writeRequest(self, filename, mode):
        from StringIO import StringIO
        return StringIO()
    # end writeRequest

# end class TFTPConnection


#
# Simple TFTP Server
#    Each connection is handled in its own thread.
# 
class TFTPServer:

    """TFTP Server
    Implements a threaded TFTP Server.  Each request is handled
    in its own thread
    """

    def __init__(self, host="", port=TFTP_PORT,
                 conn=TFTPConnection, srcports=[] ):
        self.host = host
    self.port = port
        self.conn = conn
        self.srcports = srcports

    self.sock = None
    self.bind(host, port)
    # end __init__

    def bind(self, host, port):
    sock = socket.socket(socket.AF_INET, socket.SOCK_DGRAM)
        self.sock = sock
    sock.bind(host, port)
    # end start

    def forever(self):
    while 1:
        data, addr = self.sock.recvfrom(516)
        self.handle(addr, data)     
    # end serve_forever

    def handle(self, addr, data):
        if self.srcports:
        nextport = self.srcports.pop(0)
        self.srcports.append( nextport )
        T = self.conn( self.host, nextport )
        else:
            T = self.conn( self.host )
    thread.start_new_thread( T.connect, (addr, data) )
        return
    # end handle

# end class TFTPServer


if __name__ == "__main__":
    import sys
    from StringIO import StringIO

    #
    # Subclass to create our own TFTP Connection object
    #
    class MyTFTP( TFTPConnection ):
        
        def readRequest(self, filename, mode):
            randomstring = "Here is a sample string"
            return StringIO( randomstring )
    
        def writeRequest(self, filename, mode):
            return StringIO()
    # end class

    port = 3000 + TFTP_PORT
    if sys.argv[1:]:
        port = string.atoi(sys.argv[1])

    try:
        serv = TFTPServer( "", port, conn=MyTFTP )
        serv.forever()
    except KeyboardInterrupt, SystemExit:
        pass
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

-- 
Rosimildo da Silva            rdasilva at connectel.com 
ConnectTel, Inc.              Austin, TX -- USA      
Phone : 512-338-1111          Fax : 512-918-0449     
Company Page:  http://www.connecttel.com             
Home Page:     http://members.nbci.com/rosimildo/


From alex116321 at my-deja.com  Fri Jan  5 10:40:05 2001
From: alex116321 at my-deja.com (alex116321 at my-deja.com)
Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 15:40:05 GMT
Subject: Memory leak
References: <92t8gp$blv$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <3A5275B8.3020208@ActiveState.com>
Message-ID: <934psk$l3s$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

Actually you are correct about the memory usage but thats my fault, I
gave a poor example.  Firstly, I'm using Python 1.5.1 embedded in my
C++ code.  What I do is call a Python script using the following code:

==================================================================
	PyObject* module_str = NULL;
	PyObject* module_wincom = NULL;
	PyObject* pArgs = NULL;
	PyObject* pResult = NULL;

	//*
	//* Create a new sub-interpretor(thread) to process the
callback function
	//*
	PyEval_AcquireLock( );

	PyThreadState* pTState = Py_NewInterpreter( );

	// Note that this application has multiple threads.
	// It maintains a separate interp (sub-interpreter) for each
thread.
//	PyThreadState_Swap( pTState );

	// load the Python XML DOM COM module
	module_str = PyImport_ImportModule( "string" );
	module_wincom = PyImport_ImportModule( "win32com.client" );

	// Call Python callback functions and pass the argument in
	if ( m_fDOMObj == true )
		pArgs = Py_BuildValue( "(Osi)", _pObj, _pszMsg,
_fErrorMsg );
	else
		pArgs = Py_BuildValue( "(si)", _pszMsg, _fErrorMsg );

	pResult = PyEval_CallObject( m_pPyCallbackFunc, pArgs );

	Py_XDECREF(module_str);
	Py_XDECREF(module_wincom);
	Py_XDECREF(pArgs);
	Py_XDECREF(pResult);

	// Get sub-interpreter for current thread and destroy it.
	Py_EndInterpreter( pTState );

	PyEval_ReleaseLock( );
===================================================================

This piece of code is run each time a particular condition is met.  The
Python script (actually a Python procedure) is evaluated and memory
usage goes up.  This continues until the resources have been exhaused.
The Python script contains many COM calls to the XML Parser as the
previous example shows (of course not as simple).  I thought that when
Py_EndInterpreter is called, memory should be released.  I call
Py_Initialize when the program is initialized and Py_Finalize when it
terminates.  This is done so a couple of Python variables keep their
values each time the script is called.

Alex

In article <3A5275B8.3020208 at ActiveState.com>,
  Mark Hammond <MarkH at ActiveState.com> wrote:
> alex116321 at my-deja.com wrote:
>
> > I am experiencing memory leakage when using Python and COM.
> > Specifically, I am using the Micosoft XML Parser to load and
traverse
> > XML DOM stuctures.  Everytime I access an XML node, more memory is
> > consumed.  After a while, this can eat away most of the system
> > resources if the Python session is not terminated.  Here is a simple
> > example (assume the interpreter is used as a server and does not
exit):
>
> You don't say what version of anything.
>
> With the latest versions, (and using "xrange" instead of range) I see
no
> leaks at all - perfectly flat memory usage.
>
> Mark.
>
>


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From romberg at smaug.fsl.noaa.gov  Wed Jan 24 13:07:25 2001
From: romberg at smaug.fsl.noaa.gov (Mike Romberg)
Date: 24 Jan 2001 11:07:25 -0700
Subject: python-2.1 function attributes
References: <ul3snm8dfae.fsf@smaug.fsl.noaa.gov> <m3n1cgzvpj.fsf@atrus.jesus.cam.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <ul3ofwwddsy.fsf@smaug.fsl.noaa.gov>

>>>>> " " == Michael Hudson <mwh21 at cam.ac.uk> writes:

     > Mike Romberg <romberg at smaug.fsl.noaa.gov> writes:
    >> I've been messing around with python-2.1a1 and have discovered
    >> the new feature 'function attributes'.  The project I'm
    >> currently working on can really use this feature.  The feature
    >> itself would be much more useful if one could predefine a set
    >> of attributes with the function definition.  This is one of the
    >> things mentioned in the 'future directions' sections of pep 232
    >> 
    >> http://python.sourceforge.net/peps/pep-0232.html
    >> 
    >> So... I guess I'd like to put in one 'yes' vote for this
    >> extension :).

     > I suspect if you can come up with a decent syntax, it will go
     > in.  I can't though.  Any ideas?

  The second syntax proposed in pep 232 does not strike me as
elegant.  But, it does seem to be consistant with doc strings in that
they are defined (but not referenced) first thing in the function
definition:

def spam():
    """The doc string."""
    { 'attribute1' : 'val1', 'attribute2' : val2 }
    pass

  This seems workable (althought not ideal) to me.

Mike (romberg at fsl.noaa.gov)


From amk at mira.erols.com  Wed Jan 17 20:57:20 2001
From: amk at mira.erols.com (A.M. Kuchling)
Date: 18 Jan 2001 01:57:20 GMT
Subject: Python and Industry
References: <20010111172342.10148.00000934@ng-ca1.aol.com> <9453if$t7e$1@panix2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <slrn96ck5v.178.amk@207-172-111-159.s159.tnt1.ann.va.dialup.rcn.com>

On 17 Jan 2001 13:41:35 -0800, Aahz Maruch <aahz at panix.com> wrote:
>Let's put it this way: I don't know of any competent Python programmers
>who have difficulty finding work.

Of course, that sentence might be equally true if you remove the word
'Python' from it.  (Watching people with Ph.Ds in Information Systems
struggle to solve a simple programming problem brings home the
difficulty of finding competent programmers, for any language.)

--amk


From m.j.fisher at ex.ac.uk  Wed Jan 24 13:21:39 2001
From: m.j.fisher at ex.ac.uk (M.J.Fisher)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 18:21:39 +0000
Subject: Running program in background
Message-ID: <3A6F1D33.269900C5@ex.ac.uk>

Hello,

I am building a program for use on Windows and Linux and I don't want
the user to have it on their taskbar all the time getting in their way,
my problem is that I don't know how to run a program in the background
on Windows, I have used os.fork on Linux but this doesn't work on
Windows....

Thanks in advance :-)

Shelley



From bryan at eevolved.com  Sat Jan 27 17:18:05 2001
From: bryan at eevolved.com (Bryan Mongeau)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 22:18:05 GMT
Subject: Interested in a Crypto-SIG?
References: <3A72C8A3.C4B4D69A@stroeder.com> <slrn97650f.i1.amk@mira.erols.com> <3A731DFB.3CF394C3@stroeder.com>
Message-ID: <xOHc6.132391$JT5.4910791@news20.bellglobal.com>

Michael Str?der wrote:

> The mailing list on egroups could be a start. But I would prefer
> something which looks more "official" and is tied closer to Python
> activities itself. I'm willing to act as a SIG-coordinator.
> 
> > and the main issue is probably developer time.
> 
> Yes. But everybody can save time if it's not necessary any more to
> reinvent wheel for every crypto package.
> 
> Ciao, Michael.

This is a commendable initiative, Michael, that I support fully. If I 
weren't tied up in a giant project I would gladly donate some of my time as 
well.

Please keep me posted of any developments on this front so I might be able 
to adhere to / retrofit any crypto SIG standards. I'm also available for 
input should you appreciate that.

And yes, I hate wheels too. I've invented too many of them. :)

-- 
<==================================>
Bryan Mongeau
Lead Developer, Director
eEvolved Real-Time Technologies Inc.
www.eevolved.com
<==================================>

"Heroism on command, senseless violence, and all the loathsome nonsense 
that goes by the name of patriotism -- how passionately I hate them!"-- 
Einstein



From rturpin at my-deja.com  Wed Jan 10 16:03:35 2001
From: rturpin at my-deja.com (rturpin at my-deja.com)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 21:03:35 GMT
Subject: How robust is Python ?
References: <9358nn$3c5$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, <9354f9$vbi$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, <LOBBJMHOIFOLFIPFANHJAEJFCHAA.zope@TheWebsons.com> <mailman.978716227.31692.python-list@python.org> <mailman.978721929.3640.python-list@python.org> <mailman.978748447.21713.python-list@python.org> <9365p9$s2k$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <3A5C72AB.BD43E182@gssec.bt.co.uk>
Message-ID: <93iin1$ge7$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

In article <3A5C72AB.BD43E182 at gssec.bt.co.uk>,
  Alan Gauld <alan.gauld at gssec.bt.co.uk> wrote:
> .. most modern telephone switches are written in C++ and
> they run with "seven 9's" reliability, ie. 99.99999%
> uptime. It's an industry standard for public switches.
> .. But the software takes an age to develop, needs good
> CASE tool support combined with formal methods. ..

Coincidentally enough, I developed/managed/sold a CASE
product for embedded systems to companies that used it
for this purpose, among others. It did 100% C++ code
generation from formal OOA models, using a translation
framework that supported flexible definition of the
software architecture. We even had customers in the
UK and France. Rigorous memory managment is one of
the advantages of "implementation by translation".

The company I worked for thought the embedded/real-time
CASE market did not hold enough promise, and put its
focus into other areas. Likely a wise business decision.
Too bad, though, because the technology was top-notch.
I remember where-of you speak ..

Russell



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From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Thu Jan 18 04:23:01 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 10:23:01 +0100
Subject: Regular expressions
References: <MPG.14cf88e8d0c87a6d989681@news.syd.connect.com.au>
Message-ID: <946cof430tl@news2.newsguy.com>

"Realware Systems" <derek at realware.com.au> wrote in message
news:MPG.14cf88e8d0c87a6d989681 at news.syd.connect.com.au...
> Hi,
>
> I have been looking at the docs at python.org but I must be missing
> something.
>
> I cannot find an example of how to set up a regular expression.

A regular expression object is returned by applying function
re.compile to a string that represents the regular expression
(you may also call certain functions in the same builtin module
re, with the string representing the regular expression as
their first parameter, and get the same results AS IF you
were building the RE object and then calling its methods; this
is sometimes convenient, but, like all cases in which there
are two ways to achieve a result, may be slightly confusing).


> I would like to know how to
>
> 1. set up an RE

import re
myre = re.compile(r'\d+')

This creates a regular expression object, to which variable
'myre' refers to, which will match any non-empty sequence of
digits.  OK so far?

> 2. apply it to a string (to just perform a match)

mymo = myre.match('39393')

This creates a match-object, to which variable 'mymo' refers
to, which represents the match of the given regular expression
with the given string.  Note:

mymo = myre.match('pop348ze4933plap')

this will now make variable 'mymo' refer to ***None***, as
the .match method implies the match has to start *from the
start of the string*; if you want to _search_ for a match
wherever it may start, use instead the .search method:

mymo = myre.search('pop348ze4933plap')

this will now make variable 'mymo' refer to the substring
'3483' of the given string (leftmost-first matching, and
also 'greedy', i.e., longest substring left-first found).

> 3. apply it to a string to perform a replacement

newstring = myre.sub('DIGITS','z23skidoo42',1)

this will now make variable 'newstring' refer to a string
worth 'zDIGITSskidoo42'.  Note that string objects are NOT
mutable, so the OLD string is not changed by the .sub --
a NEW string is built with the required value.  Note also
that .sub searches like .search -- no implied 'must start
at the beginning'.  Finally, we had to explicitly specify
we wanted ONE replacement (that third parameter worth 1
to the .sub call); by default, i.e. without a 3rd parameter
or with a 3rd parameter worth 0, .sub would substitute
ALL non-overlapping occurrences of the pattern in the
string (which is often what we want -- but you asked for
'a' replacement, which I took as meaning 'one' occurrence).

> 4. how to join RE's

I don't know of a way to join compiled RE objects *directly*,
but you can get back the string representation using the
attribute .pattern of the RE object, join those strings
(e.g. with operator +, if you only want to juxtapose; with
'|'.join, if you want to perform an 'or'; etc), and
compile the result.

Suppose that, as above:

myre = re.compile(r'\d+')

(matches non-empty sequence of digits) and that variable
hisre refers to some other RE object that matches something
else, for example:

hisre = re.compile('[abc]+')

matches non-empty sequence of letters a, b, c.  Now, to get
a re meaning: "whatever myre matches immediately followed
by whatever hisre matches" (here: "non-empty sequence of
digits followed by nonempty sequence of letters a,b,c"),
we do:

jointre = re.compile(myre.pattern+hisre.pattern)


Alex





From glandrum at my-deja.com  Tue Jan  2 14:44:20 2001
From: glandrum at my-deja.com (Greg Landrum)
Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2001 19:44:20 GMT
Subject: Python Imaging Library and Windows HELP!
References: <cXe46.16108$n%.820749@news20.bellglobal.com>
Message-ID: <92tb2i$dt5$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

In article <cXe46.16108$n%.820749 at news20.bellglobal.com>,
  "Jeffrey Drake" <codebert9 at users.sourceforge.net> wrote:
> I just downloaded and installed the Python  Imaging Libary for
windows, and
> it basically has a set of py files, a dll. There is absolutely no
> documentation of what to do with this stuff.
>

There are some instructions on installing PIL under windows at URL:
http://www.faqts.com/knowledge_base/view.phtml/aid/1696/fid/238
which may be helpful.

The faqts knowledge base is a very useful resource for those learning
or using python.

I hope this helps,
-greg


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From barry at digicool.com  Fri Jan 19 21:05:31 2001
From: barry at digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 21:05:31 -0500
Subject: PSU uses emacs?
References: <948e4b$hm0$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
	<slrn96gjd2.1ch.gerhard.nospam@lilith.hqd-internal.de>
	<949mnk$bgu$1@panix6.panix.com>
	<nj1a6.799$eI2.253376@ruti.visi.com>
Message-ID: <14952.62059.201490.977440@anthem.wooz.org>

>>>>> "GE" == Grant Edwards <grante at visi.com> writes:

    GE> Under Linux (console or X) It's fairly simple to put it back
    GE> where it's supposed to be.  Under WinNT, there's some sort of
    GE> registry magic that can be done.

I've actually had to resort to a kernel driver hack to get them
swapped under NT 4.0.  I got it off the 'net some place and it was
called ctrl2cap, although I had to modify the source to actually
/swap/ them (I think the original code actually just overlaid control
onto caps, but then there was no capslock).

IMO, resorting to such a hack is pretty pathetic for a modern
operating system.  I sure hope Win2k makes it easier to remap the
keyboard.

been-windows-free-for-two-months-ly y'rs,
-Barry



From moshez at zadka.site.co.il  Wed Jan  3 18:21:44 2001
From: moshez at zadka.site.co.il (Moshe Zadka)
Date: Thu,  4 Jan 2001 01:21:44 +0200 (IST)
Subject: One Python 2.1 idea
In-Reply-To: <92va7o02rpj@news2.newsguy.com>
References: <92va7o02rpj@news2.newsguy.com>, <018a01c071a5$e52abde0$102b2bc1@cadlab.it>, <92gjnu02q3r@news2.newsguy.com>, <mailman.978038049.481.python-list@python.org> <20001229190243.78478A84F@darjeeling.zadka.site.co.il> <mailman.978224055.28671.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <20010103232144.0914CA84F@darjeeling.zadka.site.co.il>

[Moshe asks for problem where changing __class__ would be useful]

[Alex explains...snipped for brevity]
> Now, consider a "plug-in" that is transiently activated; when
> it IS active, it wants to "tweak" the behavior of just a few,
> specifically-identified 'buttons' (&c) and 'internal objects'
> out of the zillion instances of those classes that exist at
> any given time in the GUI and in the internal engine.
....
> the 'affected' object
> must revert to 'normal behavior' if the plug-in is deactivated,
> as well as keeping normal behavior for a h**l of a lot of other
> methods.
...
> The simplest way to frame this, is to tell the plug-in authors
> that they can just substitute their own code for any given
> subset of methods of any exposed objects they can identify,
> and 'restore' the original behavior when needed.
[Ed. -- Other solution is to implement half of common lisp yourself]

Wow, Alex, I must say the length and patience of your posts amazes
me each time. Now I know I'll never be a bot.

I must say that in this case, I'm *sure* I'd fiddle with __class__
rather then the new module. It's simple more obvious to write:

class SuperSpline(Spline):

	def distort_shape(self):
		pass
...

get_selected_spline().__class__ = SuperSpline

# deactivate
for object in get_all_objects():
	if object.__class__ is SuperSpline:
		object.__class__ = object.__class__.__bases__[0]


Seems super-obvious.
Of course, in that case, you know the original class very well.

for-weird-enough-definitions-of-obviousness-ly y'rs, Z.
-- 
Moshe Zadka <sig at zadka.site.co.il>
This is a signature anti-virus. 
Please stop the spread of signature viruses!



From claird at starbase.neosoft.com  Thu Jan 18 09:08:34 2001
From: claird at starbase.neosoft.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: 18 Jan 2001 08:08:34 -0600
Subject: OS Module (how to check free space)
References: <mailman.979825332.27938.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <F71E092BA32C620E.F88C34DA997A8B92.4407DAFF10EABE6B@lp.airnews.net>

In article <mailman.979825332.27938.python-list at python.org>,
Chris Watson  <chris at voodooland.net> wrote:
>> Hi - newbie question: I've looked over the OS module documentation and I can't find a
>> tool within python that will allow me to check how much free space is available on a
>> storage device such as a hard drive.
>> 
>> Does anyone know how to do this?
>
>Kris,
>
>	AFAIK I would use os.spawnv() to call df to get free space
>assuming this is on unix. Otherwise call whatever win32 equiv there is.
>If you need help with spawnv mail me and ill send you sample code.
			.
			.
			.
I need to write up my notes on this.  In the
meantime, look for "Disk free capacity" in
<URL: http://mini.net/cgi-bin/wikit/526.html >
for platform-specific tips.
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at NeoSoft.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://starbase.neosoft.com/~claird/home.html


From lsloan00 at my-deja.com  Tue Jan  9 21:06:48 2001
From: lsloan00 at my-deja.com (lsloan00 at my-deja.com)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 02:06:48 GMT
Subject: book recommendation?
References: <92t6e7$9jn$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <93gg3l$nje$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

In article <92t6e7$9jn$1 at nnrp1.deja.com>,
  lsloan00 at my-deja.com wrote:
> I'm looking for a book
> that would be a good language reference, but also
> has introductions to Python's special features without
> being too "slow".

Okay, I'm being too picky.  Since nobody's given any
suggestions, maybe my request should be:

Please recommend a good Python book.

Thank you!


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From hancock at earthlink.net  Wed Jan 17 23:17:19 2001
From: hancock at earthlink.net (Terry Hancock)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 20:17:19 -0800
Subject: Literate programming in Python
References: <20010117224801.6A67CEFDB@mail.python.org>
Message-ID: <3A666E4F.463BDF7D@earthlink.net>

> Hello,
> I'd like to know if there exist a "literate programming" language for Python (possibly
> using the same structure/conventions of
> WEB/CWEB, the first literate programming languages, developed by D.E.Knuth and Silvio Levy,
> resp. for Pascal and C/C++).
> 
> Thank you for your attention,
> 
> --
> Giuseppe Bilotta

I don't know of such a thing, but you should be aware of "Spider",
which is a program for creating new literate programming tools
for new languages (i.e. you could use spider to _make_ the tool
you want).  Spider is by Norman Ramsey, circa 1989, at Princeton
University. You can probably get it from a number of places
(CTAN archives?), but I know it's available as a Debian package
(from http://www.debian.org).  I think it allows for a higher
level of generality than is the case with cweb.

Best of luck!
-- 
Terry Hancock
hancock at earthlink.net



From victor at prodigy.net  Fri Jan 12 17:05:28 2001
From: victor at prodigy.net (Victor Muslin)
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 22:05:28 GMT
Subject: cgi module question
Message-ID: <3a5f7b52.253219421@localhost>

Is there a way to parse a query string of this form:

	foo=bar&x=y=z&xyz

Is this format against application/x-www-form-urlencoded guidelines?
Can somebody point me to a definitive document?

What I would ideally like is:

	{ 'foo' : 'bar', 'x' : 'y=z', 'xyz' : None }


From oblomov at freemail.it  Wed Jan 17 17:07:40 2001
From: oblomov at freemail.it (Giuseppe Bilotta)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 22:07:40 GMT
Subject: Literate programming in Python
Message-ID: <MIo96.76568$eB2.6160368@news.infostrada.it>

Hello,

I'd like to know if there exist a "literate programming" language for Python (possibly using the same structure/conventions of
WEB/CWEB, the first literate programming languages, developed by D.E.Knuth and Silvio Levy, resp. for Pascal and C/C++).

Thank you for your attention,

--
Giuseppe Bilotta






From grey at despair.rpglink.com  Sat Jan 20 03:33:48 2001
From: grey at despair.rpglink.com (Steve Lamb)
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 08:33:48 -0000
Subject: Translating a Perl script into Python
References: <vo9i6t04nhurgv2avmgoss4mg86ofcuhtv@4ax.com> <kug0ied7po.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi> <oeei6tg7hfdcsptg6f4sosp2s1evko0i4l@4ax.com> <slrn96igh4.q4j.grey@teleute.dmiyu.org> <kubst2d3xp.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>
Message-ID: <slrn96ijbc.qf0.grey@teleute.dmiyu.org>

On 20 Jan 2001 10:26:58 +0200, Erno Kuusela <erno-news at erno.iki.fi> wrote:
>why os.open()? i think that would correspond to perl's sysopen function.

    Because I got stuck on the os.open call early on while playing with other
os methods and never noticed that there was just an open call.

    Shelia, ignore me, listen to Erno here.  :)

-- 
         Steve C. Lamb         | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your
         ICQ: 5107343          | main connection to the switchboard of souls.
-------------------------------+---------------------------------------------


From Dan.Rolander at marriott.com  Thu Jan 25 14:40:57 2001
From: Dan.Rolander at marriott.com (Rolander, Dan)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 14:40:57 -0500
Subject: FW: Path to script?
Message-ID: <6176E3D8E36FD111B58900805FA7E0F80CCF632B@mcnc-mdm1-ex01>

Never mind. I figured it out. sys.path[0].

Dan

>  -----Original Message-----
> From: 	Rolander, Dan  
> Sent:	Thursday, January 25, 2001 2:14 PM
> To:	'python-list at python.org'
> Subject:	Path to script?
> 
> Is there a way for a script to determine where it is located, i.e. the
> absolute path to the script? If I execute a script from some other current
> working directory, I want the script to know where it is.
> 
> Thanks,
> Dan
> 



From emile at fenx.com  Fri Jan 12 18:52:28 2001
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 15:52:28 -0800
Subject: A small suggestion for Python
References: <3A5F27F7.30268D9A@erols.com> <93nf0g$amfvv$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de> <DAK76.5211$jk6.1231577@typhoon2.ba-dsg.net>
Message-ID: <93o5cm$av4ho$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>

"David Allen" <s2mdalle at titan.vcu.edu> wrote in message
news:DAK76.5211$jk6.1231577 at typhoon2.ba-dsg.net...
> In article <93nf0g$amfvv$1 at ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>,
"Emile van Sebille"
> <emile at fenx.com> wrote:
>
> > If such a thing were to be added, might it also be good
to raise an
> > exception when not assigning the return value?   If so,
perhaps a nothing
> > would not object to being a sink hole (ala /dev/null).
>
> I don't know.  It would annoy the hell out of me
> if I had to put map() calls that I wasn't using
> the result of in a try block.
>
> Say you have a function called "send_file" that
> sends a file to some host.  And you have an array
> of files.  It's easy to say
>
> map(send_file, myfiles)
>
> and be done with it.  I don't think that should
> raise an Exception, do you?
>
> The behavior that the function returns something is
> explicit, but that it returns something, and forcing
> you to do something about the fact that it returns
> something are totally different things.
>
> --
> David Allen
> http://opop.nols.com/
> ----------------------------------------
> Majority, n.: That quality that distinguishes a crime from
a law

Good Point!  Bad Idea.  ;-)

--

Emile van Sebille
emile at fenx.com
-------------------





From dan at eevolved.com  Tue Jan 30 13:03:11 2001
From: dan at eevolved.com (Dan Parisien)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 18:03:11 GMT
Subject: Fatal Python error: Interpreter not initialized (version mismatch?) 
Message-ID: <zlDd6.177240$f36.6941177@news20.bellglobal.com>

Ack! Help!

Anyone ever seen this? I am trying to call the method of a class instance 
and it dies with the message in the subject.

I placed debug statements everywhere and it doesn't seem to even touch the 
called code! It dies while calling the code...

Anyone know what's up? I am using threads and I think that is the problem 
but it is still one of the weirdest things.

Also, with digital creations now hosting python and all that, do you think 
they will create a better navigatable site for python.org? I'm up for hire 
to do it myself if no one has time :) The point is the site search engine 
doesn't work at all and I was trying to look for help on this subject... 
There is a LOT of info on the site, but I can't seem to find any help 
whenever I have a problem...

Thanks,
Dan
dan at eevolved.com


From nas at arctrix.com  Mon Jan 29 04:46:20 2001
From: nas at arctrix.com (Neil Schemenauer)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 01:46:20 -0800
Subject: Python vs Ruby
In-Reply-To: <20010129111820.C15924@harmony.cs.rit.edu>; from dsh8290@rit.edu on Mon, Jan 29, 2001 at 11:18:20AM -0500
References: <94mdkd$222e$1@news.adamastor.ac.za> <p6qwvbjtr97.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de> <87puhbndn5.fsf@hoyogw.netlab.co.jp> <p6qpuhatejn.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de> <"from <20010126045052.A4684@glacier.fnational.com> <20010129111820.C15924@harmony.cs.rit.edu>
Message-ID: <20010129014620.D14763@glacier.fnational.com>

On Mon, Jan 29, 2001 at 11:18:20AM -0500, D-Man wrote:
> Just out of curiosity, how do/did you disable the ref counting
> in the interpreter?

I believe I removed ob_refcnt from the PyObject struct and made
the Py_INCREF and Py_DECREF macros do nothing.

> All the tests I've seen of the Boehm collector used C programs
> originally designed for malloc/free, not using any ref counting
> schemes.  Maybe this has an effect?

Probably. :-)

  Neil



From stanton at livsform.com  Sun Jan  7 22:55:38 2001
From: stanton at livsform.com (Stanton Schell)
Date: 08 Jan 2001 03:55:38 GMT
Subject: Basic module question:
References: <B67E91CD.A22E%stanton@livsform.com> <Zja66.589$_e7.31014@news2.atl>
Message-ID: <B67EA469.A36A%stanton@livsform.com>

> 
> 
> Other than the module's documentation, the other thing you could do is use
> dir() like this:
> 

Ah, thank you Joel.  one other thing.  when you refer to the 'module's
documentation', are you referring to the sys module documentation or the
sys.stdin documentation - the reason I ask is I looked all over for
documentation on sys.stdin

-stanton

--
Stanton Schell
stanton at livsform.com



From bobhicks at adelphia.net  Wed Jan 31 16:49:33 2001
From: bobhicks at adelphia.net (Robert L Hicks)
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 21:49:33 GMT
Subject: Any practice exercises for beginner???
References: <qz%d6.29887$KP3.8385706@news3.rdc1.on.home.com>
Message-ID: <B69DF286.9A39%bobhicks@adelphia.net>

http://www.crosswinds.net/~agauld/

> From: "shaka" <fabrice.n at home.com>
> Organization: Excite at Home - The Leader in Broadband http://home.com/faster
> Reply-To: "shaka" <fabrice.n at home.com>
> Newsgroups: comp.lang.python
> Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 21:36:22 GMT
> Subject: Any practice exercises for beginner???
> 
> 
> 
> I was just wondering beside the tutorial if there was any practice
> exercises to reinforce beginners strength in python?
> I can recall that when learning Java, some Java website offered some
> exercises for beginners.
> 
> 



From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Thu Jan 11 13:20:52 2001
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 18:20:52 +0000
Subject: BUG Python 2.0 FreeBSD compile problem
References: <muk76.5496$Qb7.762946@newsb.telia.net>
 <mailman.979232779.12150.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <zrLdtWAEmfX6EwcR@jessikat.demon.co.uk>

In article <mailman.979232779.12150.python-list at python.org>, Chris
Watson <chris at voodooland.net> writes
>> http://sourceforge.net/bugs/?func=detailbug&bug_id=128119&group_id=5470
>> 
>> (still says "Resolution: None", but I'm pretty sure a fixed
>> was checked into CVS a couple of days ago...  if you can
>> verify that the CVS version builds cleanly, let us know!)
>
>       You know guys there is a reason why FreeBSD has a ports tree :-)
>
...
I'm not su on the machine in question. Could I use ports to do my build?
Seems pretty quick to just grab the original source and do the one & so
far only fix. Ports/rpms/pkgs etc are a bind unless you get to know all
about them. Why can't they just get something universal moan moan
grumble mumble. Exits whining :)
-- 
Robin Becker


From donn at u.washington.edu  Fri Jan 12 14:29:45 2001
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: 12 Jan 2001 19:29:45 GMT
Subject: NewBie: How Can I Scan The Keyboard In Python?
References: <93ku2c$gtr$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <epn76.5525$Qb7.771036@newsb.telia.net> <93n1tg$a6v$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <ohiu5ts1djrb0bms9mrmu21cee4ae64boq@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <93nlv9$kre$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>

Quoth Alain TESIO <alain at onesite.org>:
| On Fri, 12 Jan 2001 13:47:30 GMT, jbranthoover at my-deja.com wrote:
|> Hello Fredrik,
|> 	Thank you for your response.  I guess that neglected to mention
|> that I am running Python 1.5.2 on a Lynx (not linux) box.  I suppose
|> that the msvcrt module makes use of windows API calls and must run on a
|> windows based system?
|> 
|> 	Anyway thanks for the information.  If you have any other
|> Ideas,  please pass them along.  Have a great day...!
|
| I think you can use select to check if there is something in stdin.
| Look at "man select" for an example in C.

You can use select to check if there is something on the input unit,
file descriptor 0 (or any other file descriptor), if it's a device
that supports select (for example, not a disk file.)  The Python file
object sys.stdin is a buffer in process memory.  You can get the file
descriptor that sys.stdin will use to refill its buffer, and check if
there that unit is readable, but select won't tell you if stdin already
has data in its buffer.

Now in the case of a tty device (UNIX), the unit doesn't naturally
become readable the moment you press a key.  In its normal line mode,
the tty device driver has its own buffer, so it can apply back-spaces
and other edits.  Until you press Enter, no data.  When you want to
read keystrokes directly, you must change the device parameters with
POSIX terminal ioctls via termios.tcsetattr().  select() doesn't help
at all.  Whether any of this applies to LynxOS, I don't know;  it
doesn't even apply to UNIX keyboard in general, only the UNIX tty
device used by the console, telnet and similar programs.  (And other
POSIX 1003.1 platforms, like BeOS, but there's no guarantee that a
POSIX platform will actually use a tty device for anything, or even
have one.)

	Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu


From jon at bezek.dstc.monash.edu.au  Wed Jan 24 19:52:19 2001
From: jon at bezek.dstc.monash.edu.au (Jonathan Giddy)
Date: 25 Jan 2001 11:52:19 +1100
Subject: Can I decompile PYC files?
References: <94j8j5$50e$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <jon.980291916@bezek.dstc.monash.edu.au> <uvgr5aae5.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com>
Message-ID: <jon.980383105@bezek.dstc.monash.edu.au>

To round out the thread, I have put my decompilation code at 
http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/~jon/python/decompiler.py

Unlike decompyle, it doesn't try to rebuild the parse tree.  It just uses 
brute-force hard-wired pattern recognition.

To get it to work, you'll need to edit the code at the bottom of the module
to do something interesting, like read argv[1], and decompile it to
argv[2].  Shouldn't be too hard.  The current code doesn't do that 
because I developed it on Idle, so it reads and writes to fixed files.

Jon.


From db3l at fitlinxx.com  Fri Jan 19 01:08:23 2001
From: db3l at fitlinxx.com (David Bolen)
Date: 19 Jan 2001 01:08:23 -0500
Subject: This is my first program in Python
References: <3a66a585.268350144@news.tcn.net> <946cob030tl@news2.newsguy.com> <3a68b654.338200382@news.tcn.net>
Message-ID: <uvgrc9iqw.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com>

rzilavec at tcn.net (Richard Zilavec) writes:

> I was not aware of readline()...  my book does not mention it.  I
> tested readline() versus readlines(), very true, readlines() creates
> an array, however 
> for line in file.readline():
> gets an error
> Traceback (innermost last):
>   File "./python.py", line 6, in ?
>     first,second = string.split(line,':',1)
> ValueError: unpack list of wrong size

The readline() method of file objects will return the next line from
the file (as a string object) or a an empty string object on end of
file.  This is different than readlines() which returns a list of
string objects, representing multiple lines from the file.

The confusing part here is that a string can also behave as a sequence
object (one of characters, which in Python are single character
strings), so when you use the for, it iterates through each character
in the string since it can iterate through any sequence object.

For example, the following uses "for" to iterate over a list of
strings, so during each cycle a new element of the list is chosen:

    >>> for value in ['One','Two']:
    ...     print value
    ...
    One
    Two

However, in this case, I just use a single string (which is also a
sequence) so "for" iterates over each element of the string:

    >>> for value in "One":
    ...     print value
    ...
    O
    n
    e

That's what is happening in your case above - readline() is returning
a single line from the file as a string object, and your for loop is
then iterating over the object character by character.

So when you get to the string.split() usage, your "line" variable is
actually pointing to a single character string, and not the entire
line.  Because it is a single character, the split is going to return
a list with only one entry, which Python then complains that it can't
unpack into a tuple of two elements (first and second).  That's
actually a general risk with that string.split() command - it assumes
that your file lines will split into precisely two parts.  That may be
fine if you know your data, or you may want to enclose it in a
try/except block to cover potential erroneous data in the file.

Using readline() has an advantage to not loading the entire file into
memory, but it is not normally coupled with a "for" - instead the
Python idiom for processing a file with readline() is:

    while 1:
        line = file.readline()
        if not line: break

        # Process line

There are loads of discussions on the newsgroup and entries in the FAQ
related to this idiom (who likes it, who doesn't) and there are ways
to wrap the I/O in an object to make it appear more C/Perl like (with
an assignment within the loop construct for example), but the above
is straight-forward and common.

> When using readlines with a for statement, do all the lines in
> /tmp/globs get placed into file.readlines(), or does it loop for each
> line read?  Hope that makes sense. 

I'm not sure I completely follow what you mean, but perhaps explaining
what is happening would help.

The readlines() method of a file object creates a new list object that
contains each of the lines from the file within the list.  It is that
list object that the "for" is iterating over ("for" can iterate over
any sequence object - or technically any object implementing the
__getitem__ method, but that's slightly more advanced).

So if you have something written as:

    for curline in myfile.readlines():
        print curline

What is happening beneath the covers is similar to:

    (1)  __tempobject__ = myfile.readlines()
    (2)  for curline in __tempobject__:
    (3)      print curline

In (1), the readlines() method of the "myfile" object is called.  It
reads in the entire file into memory, creating a list object to hold
the lines.  Note that there is also an optional parameter to
readlines() to set a guide to the maximum memory to use and it will
only read in lines that can fit in that memory - then you'd have to
put the readlines() call into a larger loop to ensure you got all the
lines.  But I've separated (1) from (2) so you can see that with
readlines() the file I/O occurs as part of the method call and the
contents are loaded into the list object before the iteration begins.

In (2) the variable curline is iterated through the list of lines that
was created by readlines().  By iterating, curline is set to reference
each of the individual objects within the list of lines (in this case
the list is a list of string objects, for each file line).

Within the loop, in (3) - which executes once for each entry in the
list of lines from the file, curline can be used to reference the
string object from the list representing a line of the file.

That's probably deeper than you really need to write the code, but I
think it can be helpful to understand how the various objects and
variables (which are really just names bound to objects) interact.

--
-- David
-- 
/-----------------------------------------------------------------------\
 \               David Bolen            \   E-mail: db3l at fitlinxx.com  /
  |             FitLinxx, Inc.            \  Phone: (203) 708-5192    |
 /  860 Canal Street, Stamford, CT  06902   \  Fax: (203) 316-5150     \
\-----------------------------------------------------------------------/


From bobhicks at adelphia.net  Tue Jan  2 22:09:14 2001
From: bobhicks at adelphia.net (Robert L Hicks)
Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 03:09:14 GMT
Subject: Komodo
References: <B672A66F.72CC%bobhicks@adelphia.net> <3A4D6D0B.20000@ActiveState.com> <uvgrx7trh.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com>
Message-ID: <B67801E2.79E0%bobhicks@adelphia.net>

I installed everything needed for Komodo. I did like it. I do not really
want to have to have the ActivePython version if I already have the standard
Python installed. I am sure that this will be *fixed* in the future.

Kudos to ActiveState for Komodo...I really wish IDLE would be enhanced more.

> From: David Bolen <db3l at fitlinxx.com>
> Organization: Fitlinxx, Inc. - Stamford, CT
> Newsgroups: comp.lang.python
> Date: 02 Jan 2001 12:23:30 -0500
> Subject: Re: Komodo
> 
> Mark Hammond <MarkH at ActiveState.com> writes:
> 
>> I can't speak for Perl.  But for Python, you certainly should be able to
>> craft your own working Python version.  There is nothing special in the
>> ActivePython binaries, other than everything Komodo needs in one
>> package.
> 
> When I tried to install Komodo, it complained that ActivePython wasn't
> installed (I have a standard Python installation), at which point I
> gave up.  Do you know if this is just a check for certain Python
> modules?  I had assumed it was looking for something truly specific to
> ActivePython, and I wasn't prepared to install that just for Komodo.
> 
> --
> -- David
> -- 
> /-----------------------------------------------------------------------\
> \               David Bolen            \   E-mail: db3l at fitlinxx.com  /
> |             FitLinxx, Inc.            \  Phone: (203) 708-5192    |
> /  860 Canal Street, Stamford, CT  06902   \  Fax: (203) 316-5150     \
> \-----------------------------------------------------------------------/



From dvoitenko at qode.com  Tue Jan  2 11:34:31 2001
From: dvoitenko at qode.com (Voitenko, Denis)
Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2001 11:34:31 -0500 
Subject: HTML parsing examples
Message-ID: <0FF17853157CD31197E100902784B34B7A1D1F@FILESERVER1>

One thing I noticed with the Python manual is that it does not have any
examples. I wish it was structured like PHP online manulal
(http://www.php.net/manual/) where people can add comments, etc.

Anyways, I am trying to figure out how to parse HTML with htmlllib and I am
completely lost. Can somone give examples?
Say, I have a file like this

<html>
<body>
<p>Hello, World!
</body>
</html>

I would like to find methods and contents of <body> and contents of <p>. How
would I do that?
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From dougfort at downright.com  Sat Jan 27 20:48:46 2001
From: dougfort at downright.com (Doug Fort)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 20:48:46 -0500
Subject: Our Exception Standards --  What do you think?
Message-ID: <4UKc6.12291$Sl.591319@iad-read.news.verio.net>

This is a proposed standard I'm going to send to our development  team.
Even though I've been writing Python for a  while, I've found exception
handling obscure.  (I come from C, C++ and Java, where it's even more
obscure).  Here is what I've worked out for our team.  It might be of some
use to others, or perhaps you serious wizards can propose something better.

***

I have been working on putting out meaningful error messages.  A good part
of this is presenting Python exceptions in a readable way.  After some
struggle, I have a pattern that I think  will work for us.

The Library Manual recommends deriving all exceptions from the system
Exception class.  This class has a member called 'args' which is a tuple of
the arguments presented in its constructor.  The default __str__ operator
simply returns the args tuple as a string.
  class TestException(Exception):
      pass

  try:
      raise TestException("aaa", "bbb")
  catch TestException, instance:
      print instance

  ('aaa', 'bbb')
I propose that we follow this standard, with the enhancement of overloading
the  __str__ operator of individual exception classes.  For example, in the
specific case I am working on, we want all producer exceptions to include
the field name:
  class ProducerException(Exception):
      def __str__(self):
          if len(self.args) == 2:
              return "Field %s: %s" % (args[0], args[1])
          return str(args)

  class CurrentValueProducerException(...ProducerException):
      pass

  try:
      raise CurrentValueProducerException(self._fieldname, "No Data")
  except:
      exc_type, exc_value, exc_traceback = sys.exc_info()
      print "%s %s" % (string.split(str(exc_type), ".")[-1], str(exc_value))

  'CurrentValueProducerException Field email: No Data'
--
Doug Fort
Senior Meat Manager
Downright Software LLC
http://www.dougfort.net





From syver at NOSPAMcyberwatcher.com  Sun Jan  7 23:09:46 2001
From: syver at NOSPAMcyberwatcher.com (Syver Enstad)
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 05:09:46 +0100
Subject: Basic module question:
References: <B67E91CD.A22E%stanton@livsform.com> <Zja66.589$_e7.31014@news2.atl> <B67EA469.A36A%stanton@livsform.com> <10b66.618$_e7.32834@news2.atl>
Message-ID: <93ben2$2na$1@troll.powertech.no>

> >Ah, thank you Joel.  one other thing.  when you refer to the 'module's
> >documentation', are you referring to the sys module documentation or the
> >sys.stdin documentation - the reason I ask is I looked all over for
> >documentation on sys.stdin
>
>
> I meant that more in general terms that hopefully the modules
documentation
> would list functions and variables but that may not always be the case.
If
> there is documentation for sys.stdin I'm not sure where to tell you to
look
> as I've been a python user for only about a few days (see .sig for exact
> time).
> --

sys.stdin is a file (or filelike object I don't really know) so you should
look at the documentation for files.




From phlip_cpp at my-deja.com  Sun Jan 28 17:36:43 2001
From: phlip_cpp at my-deja.com (Phlip)
Date: 28 Jan 2001 22:36:43 GMT
Subject: Iterate thru object member names
Message-ID: <9526tr$iac@dispatch.concentric.net>

Pythons:

In Javascript you can iterate thru an object's members and print out all 
their names. What's the equivalent in Python?

I tried to read IDLE's source, but it appears to parse class files instead 
of creating objects and sampling these.

-- 
  Phlip                          phlip_cpp at my-deja.com
============ http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?PhlIp ============
  --  Proud victim of the dreaded boomerang effect  --


From cerutti at together.net  Fri Jan 26 08:20:07 2001
From: cerutti at together.net (Neil Cerutti)
Date: 26 Jan 2001 13:20:07 GMT
Subject: Tkinter vs wxPython: your opinions?
References: <3A6F899F.E164F628@home.com> <hvZb6.2156$_8.33280@news1.rdc1.bc.home.com> <slrn9710o1.73.cerutti@fiad06.norwich.edu> <slrn971716.ums.zeitlin@seth.lpthe.jussieu.fr>
Message-ID: <slrn972up8.77.cerutti@fiad06.norwich.edu>

Vadim Zeitlin posted:
>On 25 Jan 2001 19:41:19 GMT, Neil Cerutti <cerutti at together.net> wrote:
>>The current documentation for Tkinter is much better than what
>>is available for wxPython. 
>
>This is very strange. Where is good documentation for Tkinter to
>be found? When I had tried to learn using it (this was 5 years
>ago, true) I couldn't find any documentation at all. wxWindows
>documentation is probably what has personally attracted me so
>much to it.

You have misunderstood me. I didn't intend to, and had no basis
for, comparing  tcl/tk and wxWindows. My comments, especially
regarding the documentation, apply only to Tkinter and wxPython,
the Python incarnations of these tool kits. Take a look at the
number of design patterns included in Fredrik Lundh's "Tutorial"
for a taste of what it can mean to a Python programmer like me,
with no experience writing a GUI, and little experience writing
C++ programs.

I'm willing to believe the documentation for wxWindows is
excellent, provided you're familiar with reading specificatinos
for C++ libraries. But the documentation for wxPython doesn't
compare to what you get for Tkinter, in my opinion. C++
specification with occassional Python notes is *hard* for me to
use.

The demo program included with wxPython is actually a great help,
and the best place to find help. But the stuff it doesn't cover
is hard for me to do, e.g, popup menus.

>>Tkinter's 'pack' layout manager is super easy to use, and with
>>some practice and the excellent documentation, powerful.
>>wxPython seems to have a couple of layout managers, but how
>>they should be used is a mystery.
>
>Well, this *is* explained in the docs. Besides, the sizers are
>mostly what you'd expect them to be (if you have experience with
>other GUI frameworks using such things). I don't even think they
>are that far from Tkinter layout manager although I don't know
>it well enough to be sure.

You're right and I was unfair to say it was a mystery. But the
chapter from the book on Tkinter programming I linked to was much
better, for me, than the documenation provided.

>>I've been forced to place everything pixel by pixel so far.
>
>No offense intended, but this is the worst possible way to do
>it.

I'll make a point to add a layout manager to my program today.

>It is possible to handle events from several widgets or
>different events from the same widget in the same event handler
>in wxPython, so I'm not sure how much different can it be.

It may not be much different, but so far it hasn't been as
intuitive. Perhaps because Tkinter is itself based on another
scripting language, certain concepts percolate better into Python.

>>The objects in wxPython are more full-featured (I guess--for
>>some definition of full featured), but aren't as easily
>>configurable as the Tkinter ones.
>
>There is a trade off between having your own, completely
>customizable (because you can tweak them in any way you like)
>widgets and using the standard ones. wxWindows chooses the 2nd
>i.e. it favours the native look and feel.

Thanks. I'm glad I wasn't imagining it. However, Tkinter's latest
incarnation has a great native look, if not feel. Though I found
I could simulate whatever feel I wanted with a little work.

>>wxPython's documentation seems to be in the state Tkinter's was
>>back when all there was was the _Tkinter life preserver_.
>
>I still wonder what documentation are you speaking of?

I included links to the best Tkinter documentation I'm aware of.
The wxPython documentation doesn't compare to it, yet.

>Also, I'd advise you to ask the various technical questions you
>had (handling ESC, popup menus, ...) on wxPython mailing list.
>I'm not sure they will be answered, but it's certainly worth a
>try.

Thanks.

>>Better advice is probably to try them both for some small
>>sample app, like I have, and make up your own mind. Perhaps
>>wxPython makes perfect sense if you are a good C++ programmer.
>
>On my own example it certainly does :-)

Yup.

-- 
Neil Cerutti <cerutti at together.net>
"If you're gonna score 125 points in a game, you've only got to
play good enough defense to hold the other team to 124. How
the hell hard is that?" -- Red Auerbach


From rturpin at my-deja.com  Mon Jan  1 19:50:10 2001
From: rturpin at my-deja.com (rturpin at my-deja.com)
Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2001 00:50:10 GMT
Subject: Is 100,000 entries big for a dictionary?
References: <mailman.978392642.24494.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <92r8k1$qjb$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

In article <mailman.978392642.24494.python-list at python.org>,
  "Tim Peters" <tim.one at home.com> wrote:
> .. Python's hash table structure is utterly vanilla,
> a contiguous vector of 2**N structs -- it's just that
> sometimes a brand new vector 2x bigger .. may get
> allocated and everything moves to the new vector. ..

An alternate method, at each split, is to allocate
a new vector the same size as the sum of all previous,
and to move half the existing entries (those whose
next hash bit is 1) into the new vector. This saves
half the cost of reinsertion, but it requires a table
of offsets for the sequence of vectors. Since the
vectors grow exponentially, this table is small.

> .. All references to extensible (more often "extendible")
> hashing I've seen have a much fancier scheme in mind,
> with a directory (or index) table pointing to buckets
> that can split independently; the thrust of such schemes
> is to ensure that an item can be found with no more than
> two disk accesses (incl. one for the directory table, if
> it's paged out).  I believe that's the std meaning, and
> it doesn't have anything in common with Python's scheme
> beyond hash functions and powers of 2 ..

As I view it, the core ideas of extensible hashing are
(a) that a single hash function can index different
sizes of hash space by using the first m high-order bits,
and (b) when this is done, the memory boundaries for the
different spaces align in a way that supports a variety
of strategies for merge and split. This can be done for
in-memory tables, as I described above, or for indexed
tables on mass storage. In the latter case, the index
stores the mapping of address space to disk, possibly
with collapse of some parts of the hash space space, ie,
2^n pointers may reference the same disk bucket.

Russell


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From jasonic at nomadicsltd.com  Tue Jan 23 10:05:27 2001
From: jasonic at nomadicsltd.com (Jason Cunliffe)
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 10:05:27 -0500
Subject: Complete list of Python IDEs
References: <slrn96q24u.c2s.ahopkins@ahopkins.dynacare.com> <25708BF4E69C79D8.642051B7F9A3B6D4.27F3341E69B04670@lp.airnews.net>
Message-ID: <t6r76r7aeh5ne4@corp.supernews.com>

oops. I forgot to paste in this one..

Vault:
 __main__ . Python Tools/Extensions . Editor / IDE
http://www.vex.net/parnassus/apyllo.py/751771926.979528604

-- Jason
___________________________________________________________
Jason CUNLIFFE = NOMADICS['Interactive Art and Technology']

Cameron Laird <claird at starbase.neosoft.com> wrote in message
news:25708BF4E69C79D8.642051B7F9A3B6D4.27F3341E69B04670 at lp.airnews.net...
> In article <slrn96q24u.c2s.ahopkins at ahopkins.dynacare.com>,
> Albert Hopkins <ahopkins at dynacare.com> wrote:
> >
> >I know there are a few open source and commercial Python-ware IDEs
> >available, but does there exist a list somwhere comparing features as
well
> >as contact info?
> .
> .
> .
> I know of none.  If you or another enthusiast chooses
> to write it, though, I'm sure we can find at least one
> outlet to publish it.





From erno-news at erno.iki.fi  Wed Jan 31 05:07:31 2001
From: erno-news at erno.iki.fi (Erno Kuusela)
Date: 31 Jan 2001 12:07:31 +0200
Subject: How do you lock your web app data?
References: <956uqd$6st$1@newsreaderg1.core.theplanet.net> <958j810o2e@news2.newsguy.com> <kun1c83up3.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>
Message-ID: <kuitmw3uho.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>

In article <kun1c83up3.fsf at lasipalatsi.fi>, Erno Kuusela
<erno-news at erno.iki.fi> writes:

| seems to me like gadfly claims to support transactions
| (<URL:http://www.chordate.com/kwParsing/gadfly.html>).

<URL:http://www.chordate.com/kwParsing/server.html> says:

  NOTE: All server accesses run in "autocommit mode" at this time. A
  successful access automatically triggers a database commit (but an
  unsuccessful access will rollback).

ie, you cannot include multiple sql stmsts in a transaction if you
use the server.

  -- erno


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sat Jan  6 14:06:03 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2001 20:06:03 +0100
Subject: Migrating to perl?
References: <3Fa56.4580$of7.216286@news1.atl> <mailman.978670867.31055.python-list@python.org> <V%c56.4648$of7.221797@news1.atl> <BLj56.3858$XZ5.132068@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com> <6Nk56.822$4Z.64804@news2.atl> <934nse02oal@news2.newsguy.com> <3A571F1E.2D25E978@python.net>
Message-ID: <937qj001qms@news1.newsguy.com>

"Thomas A. Bryan" <tbryan at python.net> wrote in message
news:3A571F1E.2D25E978 at python.net...
    [snip]
> That's funny.  Although there *is* more than one way to do this in Python,
> Python users don't seem to care for exercises in finding and displaying
> "neat tricks" in Python.

Actually, I do have this dark-side urge, but, don't tell anyone, as I try to
keep it under wraps in the group... it's unseemly and unPythonic.  When I
just can't resist sharing a (so-called) "neat hack", I try to remember to
add
"but of course it would be silly to do it this way in the real world"
(because
it WOULD be silly: "do the simplest thing that can possibly work" is a much
better golden rule in programming than "look, ma, no hands!"...:-).


Alex





From hancock at earthlink.net  Wed Jan  3 14:41:31 2001
From: hancock at earthlink.net (Terry Hancock)
Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 11:41:31 -0800
Subject: Threads
Message-ID: <3A53806B.6778CE1F@earthlink.net>

Hi,
I'm writing a scheduler for running "behaviors" under a
system modelled roughly on "subsumption architectures"
(Dr. Rodney Brooks and others, check MIT's AI and Robotics
publications for references to "sumbsumption" and
"behavior programming").

Basically, it seems very reasonable to run these as
lightweight processes or "threads," so I'm considering
using the Python "pthreads" module for posix threading
in order to do this, but I've never done this before
and I have some concerns about it:

1) How broad is "pthreads" support? -- we have a goal
of this program running on at least Linux, Windows, and
Mac computers.  Will the code remain portable? What
platforms don't support pthreads?  Ultimately I'd
like to run this on embedded systems as well.

2) Do any of these architectures impose high per-thread
costs or limits on the number of processes that can be
running (or rather what are the limits I can expect for
any architecture?).  I ask this because this programming
model calls for large numbers (100s or 1000s) of very
light processes (e.g. 10 - 100 lines of Python code).

The alternative is to simply run the behaviors
sequentially, without spawning a bunch of separate
threads, but this is contrary to the design philosophy
of subsumption architectures, and loses some of their
advantages (e.g. "fail-soft" resistance to buggy
behavior code).  The idea is that programs consist
of large numbers of quasi-independent components which
can fail without wrecking the rest of the system.
Processes that "hang up" can just be killed by
the scheduler when they miss their deadlines.

Also, I'd just like to be aware of any caveats or
advice you might have about this kind of application.

Thanks a lot!

The project, BTW is http://light-princess.sourceforge.net/
this is for the "character agents".

-- 
Terry Hancock
hancock at earthlink.net



From erno-news at erno.iki.fi  Sat Jan  6 16:17:36 2001
From: erno-news at erno.iki.fi (Erno Kuusela)
Date: 06 Jan 2001 23:17:36 +0200
Subject: Speed of Python vs. Perl
References: <t5eojolijv1e58@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <kur92gl6rz.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>

In article <t5eojolijv1e58 at corp.supernews.com>, "AndroidMonkey"
<androidmonkey[REMOVETHIS]@hotmail.com> writes:

| It got me wondering - What's the speed of Python like compared to
| Perl?

they're pretty much the same speed.

  -- erno


From shredwheat at mediaone.net  Wed Jan 24 03:26:48 2001
From: shredwheat at mediaone.net (Pete Shinners)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 08:26:48 GMT
Subject: Hibernating python programs?
References: <94lq4c$ooc$1@bunyip.cc.uq.edu.au>
Message-ID: <clwb6.97066$y9.18616120@typhoon.we.rr.com>

"Chui Tey" <teyc at bigfoot.com> wrote
> Just wondering aloud, if it is possible to hibernate running python scripts
> by pickling all the elements in the main namespace. and then by some magic
> save the position of the instruction pointer. Resurrecting the script can
> then take place by a similar process in reverse.

i believe this is possible with stackless python. sadly i
really am not sure. but after reading several articles about it,
it sounds like this is one of the benefits of stackless python.
you may want to head there for a next step.
http://www.stackless.com/





From nowonder at nowonder.de  Mon Jan  8 19:41:07 2001
From: nowonder at nowonder.de (Peter Schneider-Kamp)
Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2001 00:41:07 +0000
Subject: why no "do : until"?
References: <932r3e010bd@news1.newsguy.com>
	 <mailman.978660367.22251.python-list@python.org> <fvy9wlztq2.fsf@Borokay.AI.SRI.COM>
Message-ID: <3A5A5E23.86FB54CF@nowonder.de>

David Morley wrote:
> 
> What would be wrong with:
> 
> class Indexing:
>     def __init__(self, thing):
>         self.thing = thing
>     def __getitem__(self, index):
>         return (index, self.thing[index])
> 
> for (i,x) in Indexing(a):
>     ...

The efficiency. "for indexing" as proposed by Tim can
be implemented using the loop counter.

Peter
-- 
Peter Schneider-Kamp          ++47-7388-7331
Herman Krags veg 51-11        mailto:peter at schneider-kamp.de
N-7050 Trondheim              http://schneider-kamp.de



From lsommerer at ltec.net  Fri Jan  5 12:21:24 2001
From: lsommerer at ltec.net (Lloyd Sommerer)
Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 11:21:24 -0600
Subject: variable inirialization and loop forms (was Re: why no "do : 
 until"?)
References: <92jj3j$ff7$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <3A4D6A05.EEC97FA6@uswest.net> <slrn94qqvg.mgg.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <ije36.96813$x6.43604873@news2.rdc2.tx.home.com> <slrn94qt4f.mgg.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <CMo36.97857$x6.44474719@news2.rdc2.tx.home.com> <slrn94s9qg.134.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <gdq36.2696$Qb7.302774@newsb.telia.net> <slrn94shbe.150.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <92v6m002nlr@news2.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <3A560294.9C943D5E@ltec.net>

First of all, my hat is off to Alex Martelli for that interesting to read and
informative (at least to someone who knows as little as I do) evaluation of the
merits of various looping structures.

While I'm just learning Python, I was wondering if anyone knows a good reason
not to express a loop in this manner:

T = getCurrentTemperature()
while warmEnough(T):
    T = getCurrentTemperature()

This is expressed in Alex's generalization, but I think also applies to the
original code:

R=Themistor.ReadResistance()
T=R_to_Temperature(R)
while (T >=25):
    R=Themistor.ReadResistance()
    T=R_to_Temperature(R)

I realize that written this way there is a maintainability issue. Perhaps that's
reason enough not to do it this way.

Lloyd Sommerer




From fredrik at effbot.org  Thu Jan  4 03:37:26 2001
From: fredrik at effbot.org (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 08:37:26 GMT
Subject: Unexpected result for list operator "+="
References: <3A542778.E1BC06E3@bogusaddress.com>
Message-ID: <aDW46.2901$AH6.510940@newsc.telia.net>

Joe Smith wrote:
> I guess that list assignment is an assignment of the reference
> to the object and it does not copy the object.  Where as a string
> object gets copied (see example 2).

"plain assignment" (=) is always done by reference.

(See http://effbot.org/guides/python-objects.htm for
more info)

Augmented assignment operations (+= etc) are handled
by the object itself.  Some types are modified in place,
others return new objects.

Quoting the language reference:

    "An augmented assignment expression like x += 1
    can be rewritten as x = x + 1 to achieve a similar,
    but not exactly equal effect. In the augmented
    version, x is only evaluated once. Also, when
    possible, the actual operation is performed in-place,
    meaning that rather than creating a new object
    and assigning that to the target, the old object
    is modified instead."

    http://www.python.org/doc/ref/augassign.html

For list objects, "+=" is the same thing as calling the
"extend" method [1].

Hope this helps!

Cheers /F

1) if anyone can figure out where list += is documented,
let us know...




From tsatter at purecode.com  Sun Jan 28 23:12:00 2001
From: tsatter at purecode.com (Tom Satter)
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 21:12:00 -0700
Subject: "in" for dicts (was: Python 2.1 function attributes)
References: <mailman.980637154.18503.python-list@python.org> <3A7496A7.253B7B67@caltech.edu>
Message-ID: <qhq259.3jd.ln@tethys.purecode.com>

"Nathaniel Gray" <n8gray at caltech.edu> wrote in message
news:3A7496A7.253B7B67 at caltech.edu...
...
>
> If I was to ask you, "Tim, is 'larch' in Webster's dictionary?" would
> you reply, "Yes, it's under 'L'", or would you reply, "No, there's no
> 'larch' section, just A,B,C,D,..."?
>
> (I know you'd _actually_ reply "Look it up yourself!" ;^)
>
> "in" just doesn't imply "has_key" for dictionaries.

Except that in Webster's dictionary, 'larch' IS a key with the definition
(basically a tree) being the value.  So I would expect that 'larch' is IN
Webster's.

Now, if you asked, "Is 'larch' in the letters of the alphabet" or "Is
'larch' in the set of letters used to index pages in Webster's dictionary"
then the answer would correctly be 'no'.

So I don't see how this is misleading.  I would not say "Is 'larch' in
Webster's dictionary", meaning is the word 'larch' used in any of
definitions (values) in the dictionary, so at least in this case it is
completely clear.

tom

--

tom -- just plain old tom
tsatter at purecode.com





From fgeiger at datec.at  Fri Jan 26 02:04:46 2001
From: fgeiger at datec.at (Franz GEIGER)
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 08:04:46 +0100
Subject: Testing ODBC, what am I missing?
References: <3a70be19.73570291@news.cybermesa.com>
Message-ID: <94r7gp$ivb$1@newsreaderg1.core.theplanet.net>

I did it this way:

import dbi
import odbc


class G:
    sDSN = "Excel2Python"


def main():
    print
    print "Script '%s' has started: %s. " % (ScriptFN(), TTime().Now())

    print
    print >> stdout, G.sDescription

    conn = odbc.odbc('Excel2Python')
    cursor = conn.cursor()

    cursor.execute('SELECT * FROM "MyTable$"')

<snip>

It's not via mxODBC, but it works.

As I understood, if you use mxODBC you have to "hide" the standard ODBC
stuff somehow. Have a look into Mark Hammond's book if you have access to
it.

Regards
Franz


"Jay O'Connor" <joconnor at cybermesa.com> wrote in message
news:3a70be19.73570291 at news.cybermesa.com...
> I download and installed mxODBC, I'm trying to do some small testing
> so I'm using the the Text and Excel drivers under windows
>
> When I try so a Connect() I get
>
> >>> db = ODBC.Windows.Connect ("TestDatabase")
> Traceback (innermost last):
>   File "<pyshell#24>", line 1, in ?
>     db = ODBC.Windows.Connect ("TestDatabase")
> NotSupportedError: ('S1C00', 84, '[Microsoft][ODBC Excel Driver]Driver
> not capable ', 4226)
>
> When I try using DriverConnect, I get
>
> >>> db = ODBC.Windows.DriverConnect ("TestPersonDB")
> Traceback (innermost last):
>   File "<pyshell#22>", line 1, in ?
>     db = ODBC.Windows.DriverConnect ("TestPersonDB")
> OperationalError: ('IM002', 0, '[Microsoft][ODBC Driver Manager] Data
> source name not found and no default driver specified', 4316)
>
> Any ideas?
>
> Both databases are in the System DSN
> Jay O'Connor
> joconnor at cybermesa.com
> http://www.cybermesa.com/~joconnor
>
> "God himself plays on the bass strings first, when he tunes the soul"




From syver at NOSPAMcyberwatcher.com  Mon Jan  8 01:58:55 2001
From: syver at NOSPAMcyberwatcher.com (Syver Enstad)
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 07:58:55 +0100
Subject: How to run more than one instance of the Python interpreter in one process?
References: <mailman.978862627.7187.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <uzd66.12364$v46.392469@news1.oke.nextra.no>

"Tim Peters" <tim.one at home.com> wrote and wrote
> None that I've ever seen, or heard of.  Py_{New,End}Interpreter appeared
to
> have been added during a brief bout of Tcl Envy, and neglected thereafter.
> The natural place to talk about this is the Python Thread-SIG:

Check out http://pywx.idyll.org/ Tim and download the source. They use this
api and it works fine according to them (Check out our conversation on the
thread sig).





From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Mon Jan 15 06:24:10 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 12:24:10 +0100
Subject: names
References: <pls86.100769$f36.4497959@news20.bellglobal.com> <slrn964p3g.2f5.andrew.spambgone.chatham@fizgig.dorm.duke.edu>
Message-ID: <93umod02iem@news1.newsguy.com>

"Andrew H. Chatham" <andrew.spambgone.chatham at duke.edu> wrote in message
news:slrn964p3g.2f5.andrew.spambgone.chatham at fizgig.dorm.duke.edu...
> On Mon, 15 Jan 2001 01:26:45 GMT, Elliott Chapin <echapin at sympatico.ca>
wrote:
> >How can I get the name of an object as a string? As a biginner I might
> >imagine something like
> >
> >>>>b=[[1],[2]]
> >>>>name(b)
> >'b'
>
> You can't. The object doesn't know what it's name is, because the name
> corresponds to the reference to the object, not the actual object. It's
> sometimes tough to realize that variables don't store objects, they store
> references to objects.

Right!  The only way I see to accomplish Elliott's request is to look
through all variables and return the set of those whose references
are identical to the one being asked for.  To do that in a function,
while looking through the *caller*'s namespace, requires accessing
the stack, which is done by raising and catching an exception; once
that is done, the f_locals and f_globals attributes of the caller's
frame object provide such access.

All in all, something like:

import sys
def name(value):
   try: raise 'foo'
   except 'foo':
       caller_frame = sys.exc_info()[2].tb_frame.f_back
   names = []
   caller_locals = caller_frame.f_locals
   for vname, vval in caller_locals.items():
       if vval is value: names.append(vname)
   for vname, vval in caller_frame.f_globals.items():
       if vval is value and not caller_locals.has_key(vname):
           names.append(vname)
   return names

The name is somewhat misleading, since this function will not return
a string -- rather, a list of strings which are variable names (directly
accessible to the function's caller) naming the given value (it tries
to check for _identity_ of value, with 'is', rather than _equality_
as '==' would do; this is not fully reliable for immutable values, as
it's up to the system whether to have the same identities for equal
objects in that case).  It tries to take into account the scoping effect:
it will not return a global variable name which, from the point of view
of the caller, is 'shadowed' by a local-variable homonym.

> >>>b = [[1],[2]]
> >>>c = b
>
> c and b refer to the same list. If I then tried to hypothetical "name"
> function, the list would have no idea whether to say 'c' or 'b'.

Which is why my non-hypothetical proposed version, above, returns a
list with both names:-).


It's hard to see what such a 'name' function would be good for; maybe
a quick-and-dirty detector for multiply-referenced values in interactive
experimental development (one would then only care about mutable values,
so the indeterminacy affecting immutable ones would not matter).  In
point of fact, I think it's worth little except as a nice show-off for
Python's abilities of introspection/reflection...:-).


Alex





From bxt at nospam.nospam  Tue Jan  9 10:06:52 2001
From: bxt at nospam.nospam (BxT)
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 16:06:52 +0100
Subject: string escaping problems with MySQLdb
References: <93f2cr$ofq$1@news2.dtag.de> <3A5B23F1.DF12A445@erols.com>
Message-ID: <93f8kj$rtd$1@news2.dtag.de>

Hi,
thanks for your answer. Unfortunately i cannot control how the data are
inserted (i'm using a db with all the data arriving from a PHP/Web user
interface).
So i still need to find a way to decode this \\377 chars...
Thanks anyway,
BxT

"Edward C. Jones" <edcjones at erols.com> wrote
> BxT wrote:
>
> > Hi, i know this is a new-bie question,
>
> Not a newbie question. A difficult question.
>
> >
> > i'm using MySQLdb and, as i'm extracting records, i get string escaped
as
> > follows:
> > for example, instead of ? i'm getting \\337 (yes, with doppel \). When
i'm
> > printing the string i'm getting blah\337 (internally is blah\\337). I
tried
> > to use string.replace but it's giving me the same string. Is there a way
to
> > print blah??
> > For now, thanks in advance,
> > BxT
>
> I have never understood the MySQL / MySQLdb escaping rules. Therefore I
encode
> the data before storing it. None of the characters in base64 output need
to be
> escaped.
>
> nice_data = base64.encodestring(raw_data)
> raw_data = base64.decodestring(nice_data)
>
> Since my data are large Python objects, I also pickle and compress them:
>
> nice_data =
base64.encodestring(zlib.compress(cPickle.dumps(python_object)))
> python_object =
cPickle.loads(zlib.decompress(base64.decodestring(nice_data)))
>
> Good luck,
> Ed Jones
>
>




From db3l at fitlinxx.com  Fri Jan 26 20:23:46 2001
From: db3l at fitlinxx.com (David Bolen)
Date: 26 Jan 2001 20:23:46 -0500
Subject: win32all's win32net module and Win98
References: <uelxqrsxg.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com> <94sut9$jpg$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <un1cd949p.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com>

Mark Hammond <MarkH at ActiveState.com> writes:

> Yes - it does not work.  win32wnet is used for functions that work on
> both platforms.

Oh, oops - guess I should have read more closely.  The call I'm using
(NetServerGetInfo) shows working on both systems in the SDK, but looks
like it has a slightly different calling sequence under Win95/98.
Perhaps a portable (at the Python layer) version of that would be a
useful addition in some future release?  I currently use it to ensure
that a RAS connection has stabilized and the remote system is up,
which I'm not sure of an equivalent operation in the win32wnet module.

Then again, it sounds like Win95/98 isn't going to be able to do a
bunch of other stuff I'd end up using win32net for, so I'm stuck
probably stuck anyway on that platform :-)

Thanks for the response.

--
-- David
-- 
/-----------------------------------------------------------------------\
 \               David Bolen            \   E-mail: db3l at fitlinxx.com  /
  |             FitLinxx, Inc.            \  Phone: (203) 708-5192    |
 /  860 Canal Street, Stamford, CT  06902   \  Fax: (203) 316-5150     \
\-----------------------------------------------------------------------/


From rol9999 at attglobal.net  Mon Jan 22 16:09:48 2001
From: rol9999 at attglobal.net (Roland Schlenker)
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 16:09:48 -0500
Subject: observer design pattern
References: <94i340$4er$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <3A6CA19C.89A6DFB2@attglobal.net>

fray_fernando at my-deja.com wrote:
> 
> Where can I find some python sample code implementing the observer
> pattern? O:-)
> TIA
> 
> Sent via Deja.com
> http://www.deja.com/

This is the example in the Design Patterns book for the observer
pattern written in Python.

# Demonstrate an observer pattern.

import time

class Observer:
    def __init__(self):
        pass
    def update(self, theChangedSubject):
        pass

class Subject:
    def __init__(self):
        self.observerList = []
    def attach(self, observer):
        self.observerList.append(observer)
    def detach(self, observer):
        self.observerList.remove(observer)
    def notify(self):
        for observer in self.observerList:
            observer.update(self)

class ClockTimer(Subject):
    def __init__(self):
        Subject.__init__(self)
        self.localTime = time.localtime(time.time())
    def getHour(self):
        return self.localTime[3]
    def getMinute(self):
        return self.localTime[4]
    def getSecond(self):
        return self.localTime[5]
    def tick(self):
        while 1:
            time.sleep(1)
            self.localTime = time.localtime(time.time())
            self.notify()

class DigitalClock(Observer):
    def __init__(self, clocktimer):
        self.clocktimer = clocktimer
        self.clocktimer.attach(self)
    def update(self, theChangedSubject):
        if theChangedSubject is self.clocktimer:
            self.draw()
    def draw(self):
        print 'The time is %02i:%02i:%02i' % (self.clocktimer.getHour(),
                                             
self.clocktimer.getMinute(),
                                             
self.clocktimer.getSecond())

if __name__ == "__main__":
    timer = ClockTimer()
    digitalClock = DigitalClock(timer)
    timer.tick()

Roland Schlenker


From aahz at panix.com  Thu Jan 18 11:23:59 2001
From: aahz at panix.com (Aahz Maruch)
Date: 18 Jan 2001 08:23:59 -0800
Subject: How to close all files between fork and exec?
References: <yv27l3upooj.fsf@lionsp093.lion-ag.de> <9463d9$eif$1@panix6.panix.com> <yv27l3t483r.fsf@lionsp093.lion-ag.de>
Message-ID: <9475av$t13$1@panix2.panix.com>

In article <yv27l3t483r.fsf at lionsp093.lion-ag.de>,
Harald Kirsch  <kirschh at lionbioscience.com> wrote:
>aahz at panix.com (Aahz Maruch) writes:
>> In article <yv27l3upooj.fsf at lionsp093.lion-ag.de>,
>> Harald Kirsch  <kirschh at lionbioscience.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>Python has fork/exec. I want to use it. After fork and before exec I
>>>would like the child process to close all files other than 0, 1 and 2
>>>(i.e. standard input/output/error). 
>> 
>> Why not simply keep track of all open files in a dict or list?
>
>Thereby duplicating the work the operating system does anyway? And how
>would a module for forking special processes keep track of the files
>opened by the main program calling it? Hmm...

from fork import open

As for your first question, you're always responsible of keeping track
of whatever resources you're using; it's just that sometimes, the
language you're using provides conveniences to make that easier.
-- 
                      --- Aahz (Copyright 2001 by aahz at pobox.com)

Androgynous poly kinky vanilla queer het    <*>     http://www.rahul.net/aahz/
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6

A house is a machine to keep your cat dry.  --Aahz


From tim.one at home.com  Wed Jan 10 17:38:54 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 17:38:54 -0500
Subject: Notice: Status of the PSU
In-Reply-To: <93hpm4$k1k$1@newshost.accu.uu.nl>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCIENNIHAA.tim.one@home.com>

["Martijn Faassen" -- like that's a real name]
> Dear fellow PSU members,

Stop right there!  The PSU does not exis




From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Jan 12 04:58:05 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 10:58:05 +0100
Subject: boolean xor
References: <93ace8$nmo$1@panix3.panix.com> <93i7ne$5dk$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <93i9ff$q4l$1@slb0.atl.mindspring.net> <pI576.21295$ge4.9910815@news2.rdc2.tx.home.com> <93iuj9$jta$1@slb3.atl.mindspring.net> <cLa76.23299$ge4.10502177@news2.rdc2.tx.home.com> <93jls9$v12$1@slb3.atl.mindspring.net> <Tbi76.10504$X3.66627@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com> <93kofr01bg2@news1.newsguy.com> <61t76.2471$6i.33339@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <93mki90g76@news1.newsguy.com>

"Steve Holden" <sholden at holdenweb.com> wrote in message
news:61t76.2471$6i.33339 at e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com...
    [snip]
> > def xor(A,B):
> >     if not A: return B
> >     if not B: return A
> >
> Bzzzt. You need a "return 1" at the end of that. Look:

*blink* -- do I?


> >>> def tf(x):
> ...  if x: return 1
> ...  else: return 0
> ...
> >>> def xor(A, B):
> ...  if A: return B
> ...  if B: return A

Sorry, what's this purported "xor"?  It's "if not" in each
case, see my code you quote above.

> ...
> >>> for A, B in (["", ""], ["", 't'], ['t', ''], ['t', 't']):
> ...  print tf(A), tf(B), tf(xor(A, B))
> ...
> 0 0 0   <<<< aarrrggghhh~~~!!!!
> 0 1 0
> 1 0 0
> 1 1 1
>
> Better check my fix works: not often I get a chance to correct the
> martellibot!

I post enough actual imprecisions and outright errors without
taking some _good_ code I may occasionally happen to post as
such a 'chance'!-)

With my proposed definition of 'xor' (WITH the 'not's in it, as
originally posted):

>>> def xor(a,b):
...   if not a: return b
...   if not b: return a
...
>>> def tf(a):
...   return not not a
...
>>> for a in ['', 'foo']:
...   for b in ['', 'bar']:
...     print tf(a), tf(b), tf(xor(a,b)), repr(xor(a,b))
...
0 0 0 ''
0 1 1 'bar'
1 0 1 'foo'
1 1 0 None
>>>

which seems to me to be exactly what I was talking about: my 'xor'
returns something with a truth value congruent with the exclusive
or's truth table (and, in that, it's absolutely nothing special);
but, specifically, it doesn't return "just any old true [false]
value" -- it returns either A or B if this is feasible, the only
exception being when both arguments are 'true', in which case it
can't return either of them (because it must give something with
a truthvalue of 'false'!) and therefore returns None.

Unlikely to be of any practical value, I guess (unlike Python's
and/or, which DO get significant added-value from always returning
one of their operands, IMHO) -- but I thought it was cute.


Alex





From slhath at flash.net  Mon Jan 15 11:04:32 2001
From: slhath at flash.net (scotth)
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 16:04:32 GMT
Subject: python compiled to native in less than a year?
Message-ID: <kcF86.6006$J%.594457@news.flash.net>

Hello,

Since the new .NET platform from MS will take all the compatible .NET
languages and transform them to an IL (intermediate language ???), then take
the IL to native compiled code, this means that python will be compiled, but
only for the Windows platform.

Is what I have said correct, or have I missed something?  This would give
python a huge boost!

Scott




From quinn at retch.ugcs.caltech.edu  Fri Jan 26 18:05:12 2001
From: quinn at retch.ugcs.caltech.edu (Quinn Dunkan)
Date: 26 Jan 2001 23:05:12 GMT
Subject: Advice for a first project
References: <3A70BC6C.333AC9F8@NO_SPAM_PLEASE.benettonformula.com>
Message-ID: <slrn9740l7.3nv.quinn@retch.ugcs.caltech.edu>

On Thu, 25 Jan 2001 23:53:16 +0000, AlisdairM
<alisdair.meredith at NO_SPAM_PLEASE.benettonformula.com> wrote:
>After hearing so many good things about Python ( namely that it makes
>the simple things simple again! ) I am hoping to find time to learn it
>in the near future, other projects permitting.
>
>Generally, I find languages/techniques best picked up if you have a
>specific project in mind, and looking around I *think* I have a suitable
>candidate due in the next few months anyway :? )
>
>Given that I still know little about the language, I am hoping some
>friendly knowledgable local could tell me if this is a realistic goal, a
>good use of Python, or one of those projects that can be done in Python
>but gains little benefit compared to C++/Delphi/VB/ASM/<insert generic
>language here>
>
>The basic project will be our source-code archiver/release manager.  We
>have quite a few projects deployed internally, all written in C++.  I
>want to create a tool to 
>
>  archive release code to a shared server ( source and executables )
>  recreate a fresh build environment from that server
>  automatically update header file version constants
>  incorporate simple bug-tracking database
>  create Release note from the bug-track dbase
>
>I expect most of this will be creating/pasing plain text files that
>define what the system should look like, and the bug-tracking database
>will also be little more than some plain-text notes initially, stored in
>a related part of the server.

This all looks like good python material.  If you're going to be doing simple
text file munging, python's regexp facilities (in the 're' module) are quite
satisfactory.  For more complicated parsing, look at mxTextTools or SPARK, or
go to http://www.vex.net/parnassus/ and look in the 'parsing' category.  You
probably only need to search for an RCS-like id line, though.

Internal state of your system, such as the bug database, can be saved in a
plain text file or with the built in serialization pickle/cPickle or marshal
modules.  If you want something more fancy, you can search for gadfly, a
python SQL implementation, or use MySQL or something and one of the python SQL
db modules (once again, check parnassus).

Unfortunately, I haven't much experience with python stuff that makes network
communication easy, but you might want to look at python XML-RPC... I'd assume
it's a simple matter to tunnel it through ssh and have a reasonably complete
and secure way to communicate with your server.

python does shellish things perfectly well, too... os.system() and os.popen()
are probably all you need here.

>What I need to know now is how realistic this target is, and what
>resources I will need to make this fly when I get that free week to give
>it a shot.  I have time to buy books, download tutorials/IDEs/libraries
>now.  I don't want to lose 'learning time' chasing these up during that
>week or two.
>
>Any recommendations/advice.  What should I expect to achieve with a week
>or two (tops) for the exercise?  

If you have any previous experience with traditional procedural / OO languages
like C++ or Java, then you ought to pick up python in a day or so (seriously).
The rest is, as for any language, a matter of reading library and module
documentation to figure out what you need.  The stdlib has lots of stuff,
the documentation is generally good, and you can always look at the source
(both C and python) to see how things are really done.  Browse parnassus, and
take a look at what people have done for you already.

As far as how far to expect to get, that depends on your understanding of the
problem.  It's a tribute to python that it will probably get out of your way
after the first few days, and after that you will be limited by practical
concerns like keeping a database in sync, communicating over the network, etc.
A release-control system is not a trivial thing.

Go to www.python.org and download the complete documentation and tutorial.
Whether or not you want a book is up to you, though the tutorial was enough
for me.  If you search the deja archives of c.l.py for 'python books' you
ought to find plenty of recommendations for python books.  IDEs, of course,
depend on your taste.  Most people seem to use emacs or vim.  IDLE is
in-development and comes with the stdlib, the windows python has another one,
and most all editors, even fairly obscure ones like wily (which I use), seem
to have some level of python support nowadays.


Have fun!  If you're anything like me, you'll find it an addictive little
language...


From andrew_dot_henshaw_at_earthling_dot_net  Thu Jan 18 22:50:02 2001
From: andrew_dot_henshaw_at_earthling_dot_net (Andrew Henshaw)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 22:50:02 -0500
Subject: Interesting "gotme"
Message-ID: <t6fem95tt32o1f@corp.supernews.com>

I got bit by this for a couple of minutes the other day. Perhaps mentioning
it here will help someone else.  On the other hand, perhaps I'm the only
person silly enough to not see this right away.

I had a list that I wanted to sort, except that I wanted the 0th element to
stay put.  So I smugly coded:

a[1:].sort()

and went on my merry way.  Later, I tracked down a bug  to the fact that I
really had not sorted a[1:].  Of course, I had sorted a copy of a[1:], which
was immediately discarded.

Cheers,

AH




From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Thu Jan  4 08:43:53 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 14:43:53 +0100
Subject: Python vs. PHP (& Java?)
References: <69BC4C6AE83ED311BC9400805FA7B14AF84D2C@il93exp01.css.mot.com> <mailman.978018791.20357.python-list@python.org> <92fv4a$l2l$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <92gghv02iq1@news2.newsguy.com> <92iie9$lg3$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <92j7q0033j@news1.newsguy.com> <92jffg$cs1$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <931uof02r90@news2.newsguy.com>

<rturpin at my-deja.com> wrote in message news:92jffg$cs1$1 at nnrp1.deja.com...
> I wrote:
> >> .. If you want to look for adaptation, sexual selection
> >> may have more to do with this than natural selection. A
> >> silver tongue will not save you from the lion or bag
> >> the deer, but it will win a heart.
>
> In article <92j7q0033j at news1.newsguy.com>,
>   "Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote:
> > Sexual selection, particularly female-choice, IS very much
> > a part of natural selection ..
>
> I had the notion that Darwin distinguished the two. Not to

Oh yes, very much so -- particularly in 'Descent of Man',
of course; he basically posited them as different, even
competing mechanisms, seeing 'natural' selection as
inherently 'adaptive', 'sexual' selection as sometimes
to the contrary.  Fisher, I believe, contributed some
crucial insight in terms of a mathematical model of
"runaway sexual selection", and even more recent scholars
weighed in heavily on this side.

> imply that sexual selection is unnatural, but simply to
> differently label the two mechanisms. But I could remember
> wrong; I am no biologist.

Me neither: but I have hubris enough to strongly side
with more recent theorists in the field (of course, I
guess I would be incensed if a biologist expressed
himself as strongly in, e.g., the single versus multiple
inheritance schools of MY professional field -- but, as
everybody and his cousin DO think themselves past masters
at programming, the least I can do is reciprocate:-).

Briefly (cfr. e.g. Dorak's "Notes on Elementary Evolutionary
Biology", which offer the advantage of good web availability
at http://dorakmt.tripod.com/evolution/index.html):
"""
When fitness is seen as reproductive success rather than
simply survival, sexual selection [...] is no different from
what natural selection does
"""
and as reproductive success is the *only* 'fitness'
criterion that *ever* gets 'selected' for, the *only*
sense in which 'adaptive' can be read, the attempt
at drawing a fundamental distinction appears misguided
to me.  "Ability to survive", just like "being a
desirable mate for the other sex", or any other effect
of a phenotype's traits, is _indirectly_ adaptive in as
much as it can promote reproductive success.

I should, however, have acknowledged the traditional
distinction, and I apologize for the omission of such
acknowledgment!


Alex





From fredrik at effbot.org  Tue Jan 30 03:40:43 2001
From: fredrik at effbot.org (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 08:40:43 GMT
Subject: xor operator?
References: <mailman.980769755.13612.python-list@python.org> <slrn97cuta.eti.quinn@groat.ugcs.caltech.edu>
Message-ID: <f6vd6.9833$Qb7.1503920@newsb.telia.net>

Quinn Dunkan wrote:
> but hey, pile on the random boolean operators!

Don't forget "imp" and "eqv"!

Cheers /F




From mhammond at my-deja.com  Wed Jan 10 12:45:04 2001
From: mhammond at my-deja.com (Mark Hammond)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 17:45:04 GMT
Subject: win32all license for python 1.5.2?
References: <3A5C3109.2163FAA4@gmx.de> <AEX66.53783$xW4.429029@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
Message-ID: <93i72t$4n7$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

In article <AEX66.53783$xW4.429029 at news-server.bigpond.net.au>,
  "Neil Hodgson" <neilh at scintilla.org> wrote:

>    I'm sure Mark will pop up if I got anything wrong.

Perfect!

Just to be clear - the ActiveState licence you quoted relates to the
packaging of the bits.  It is correct that you can not take the
binaries (_any_ of the binaries) as distributed by ActiveState, and
distribute them as your own.

However, as Neil states, the binaries that can be downloaded as part
of "win32all-xxx.exe" have no such restrictions.  You will not find me
objecting to any use of these extensions unless you try and imply you
developed them personally - hence the (admittedly vague) requirement
that the copyright must exist _somewhere_

Mark.


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From glenfant at equod.com.nospam  Fri Jan 26 11:11:56 2001
From: glenfant at equod.com.nospam (Gilles Lenfant)
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 17:11:56 +0100
Subject: simple threads kill  my IDLE
References: <3A711877.4C5B51AF@mail.com> <mpac6.1$yH6.175@news.world-online.no>
Message-ID: <94s79v$7sr$1@reader1.imaginet.fr>

Don't run from IDLE scripts with threads unless threads can't
programatically be "killed".
In short don't run from IDLE scripts with threads!
Going to Linux won't change anything (same problem).

Off topic... You should have posted this in a new... thread :)
in this newsgroup.


"Henning VON ROSEN" <hvrosen at world-online.no> a ?crit dans le message news:
mpac6.1$yH6.175 at news.world-online.no...
> While playing around width threads executing either interactively or from
> the editmode by "f5", in many cases IDLE froze and forced me to restart
it.
>
> Have anyone experienced such problems?
>
> Is this a general problem of Tkinter? of IDLE? or probably just a newbie
> miscoding?
>
> The same things worked fine when executed outside IDLE, in  a DOS window.
>
> from threading import *
> class adi(Thread):
>  def run(self):
>   e = Event()
>   cheno = "Hello"
>   for litero in cheno:
>       print litero,
>       e.wait(.2)
> a=adi()
> a.start()
> b=raw_input('go on')
>
> It just prints out the letters one by one
> it works in DOS-window but kills IDLE/Tkinter.
> Not every time, though, nut it does produce the first letter of the string
> "H", in a fashion that it ends up last in the printing.
>
> Anyway I am new to threads, so maybe I did it the wrong way!
>
> So what shall I do:
> 1) Avoid threads and IDLE in combination
> 2) Purchase PythonWorks
> 3) Just execute in DOS Windows (If there is a bug, these ugly windows dies
> off, leaving me without feddback error messages! How do I solve that?)
> 4) Migrate to Linux
>
> Most thankful for any hints
>
> amike via Henning VON ROSEN
>
>
>



From martin.franklin at westerngeco.com  Fri Jan 26 08:09:56 2001
From: martin.franklin at westerngeco.com (Martin Franklin)
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 13:09:56 +0000
Subject: smtplib --> receiving emails two times
References: <94paet$9o3$1@news.netcologne.de> <mailman.980432430.15190.python-list@python.org> <%p0c6.378$27.116649@ruti.visi.com>
Message-ID: <3A717724.2EAC7E74@westerngeco.com>


Having just tested my words I now must eat them.;-)
do not remove the To: 


Thanks,
Martin.


Grant Edwards wrote:
> 
> In article <mailman.980432430.15190.python-list at python.org>, Martin Franklin wrote:
> 
> >You have the To: line in the message body.  This gets  used by the smtp
> >server to send the mail twice
> >
> >so change the following.
> >
> >msg = ("From: %s\r\nTo: %s\r\nSubject: topic\r\n\r\n"
> >%(fromaddress,toaddress))
> >
> >
> >to
> >
> >msg = ("From: %s\r\nSubject: topic\r\n\r\n" %(fromaddress))
> 
> Eh?  The SMTP server should ignore that To: header -- it's just
> "message data".  It should only send the mail to the addresses
> specified in the RCPT command.  RFC-788 is pretty explicit
> about this.
> 
> I'd advise leaving a To: header in the message. Some MUAs don't
> like messages without a To: line in the header. Personally,
> I've got procmail configured to dump messages with no To:
> header into the garbage.
> 
> --
> Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  .. Everything
>                                   at               is....FLIPPING AROUND!!
>                                visi.com
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list



From cjc26 at nospam.cornell.edu  Thu Jan 18 20:42:19 2001
From: cjc26 at nospam.cornell.edu (Cliff Crawford)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 01:42:19 GMT
Subject: 3d array?
References: <947r0q$f6k$1@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <%XM96.106610$_G5.15894209@typhoon.nyroc.rr.com>

* Dan Stromberg <strombrg at seki.acs.uci.edu> menulis:
| I love python, but is there really no good way of doing a 3d array of
| a scalar type?  How about of an aggregate type?

threedee = [ [ [ 1, 2, 3 ],
               [ 4, 5, 6 ],
               [ 7, 8, 9 ] ],
             [ [ 10, 11, 12 ],
               [ 13, 14, 15 ],
               [ 16, 17, 18 ] ] ]
print threedee[1][2][0]  ==>  prints 16

You can also look into using Numeric python
<http://numpy.sourceforge.net/>.


-- 
Cliff Crawford               http://www.people.cornell.edu/pages/cjc26/
                             print "Just another Python hacker"


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Wed Jan 10 06:11:59 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 12:11:59 +0100
Subject: mxTools (was Re: why no "do : until"?)
References: <Iw5jLKALa0W6Ewjq@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <Pine.LNX.4.30.0101092015010.5204-100000@fep132.fep.ru> <mailman.979066090.17094.python-list@python.org> <slrn95nml8.ij.amk@207-172-69-8.s262.tnt8.brd.va.dialup.rcn.com>
Message-ID: <93hg4a0144i@news2.newsguy.com>

"A.M. Kuchling" <amk at mira.erols.com> wrote in message
news:slrn95nml8.ij.amk at 207-172-69-8.s262.tnt8.brd.va.dialup.rcn.com...
> >There are a potentially infinite number of types/classes/modules which
> >can be considered as essential if they are required for consistency in
> >more than one other module.
>
> In addition, many modules release new revisions much faster than
> Python does.  For example, I consider adding the XML parsing modules
> to 2.0 to now have been demonstrated to be a serious mistake; there

Nolo contendere on either the general contention or the specific
case of XML -- thus, prudence is well warranted; modules should
not be added unless (among other things) proved solid & stable.

But doesn't mxDateTime meet this important requirement, as well
as the one about general foundational importance?


Alex





From max at alcyone.com  Mon Jan 15 16:40:39 2001
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 13:40:39 -0800
Subject: Beginner's question - class definition
References: <3a6366a8.4537644@news.ruralnet.net.au> <3a636cb7.6088966@news.ruralnet.net.au>
Message-ID: <3A636E57.805CCE50@alcyone.com>

banksam at swanhill.net.au wrote:

> Thank you.  Problem solved.

Note that there are some Python books that, through a poor choice of
typography, make the double underscore so prevalent in Python appear as
a single underscore.  Basically anytime you see what looks like a single
underscore, it's probably a double underscore in disguise.

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, US / 37 20 N 121 53 W / ICQ16063900 / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ The great artist is the simplifier.
\__/ Henri Amiel
    Official Buh rules / http://www.alcyone.com/max/projects/cards/buh/
 The official rules to the betting card game, Buh.


From makotosu at my-deja.com  Tue Jan 30 08:41:02 2001
From: makotosu at my-deja.com (makotosu at my-deja.com)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 13:41:02 GMT
Subject: Capturing Screen, Moving mouse
Message-ID: <956g9e$vfj$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

Hello,

Is there a way to use Python to control a user's desktop?  I want to be
able to capture the user's desktop as an image (then convert it to a
jpeg/gif/png) and also have Python automatically control the user's
mouse pointer and click the mouse buttons as well (like producing a
demo).

This functionality was recently made available through Java's Robot
class, but I wanted to use Python instead.  I know I can use Jython
instead, but I was wondering if there was a way to use the CPython
instead.

I'm sorry if this question has already been asked-- please point me to
the right place.

Sincerely yours,

Norman Su


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From hadidab at yahoo.fr  Mon Jan 29 04:15:49 2001
From: hadidab at yahoo.fr (=?iso-8859-1?q?ABDENOUR=20HADID?=)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 10:15:49 +0100 (CET)
Subject: importing glut
Message-ID: <20010129091549.15789.qmail@web210.mail.yahoo.com>

hello
I am just beginner in programing with python. I
installed python and pyopengl on win98platform. 
when I tried to import glut.py i receive the error 
message :"importing the GLUT Library failed. the
GLUT32.DLL file should be on your path...."

I see the file Glut.py in the directory
c://python20//OpenGl//

I tried to import :OpenGl.Glut  but same problem.
i added the c://python20//OpenGl// to Path..always
same problem...

so, can you help me..

thanks



___________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!? -- Pour dialoguer en direct avec vos amis, 
Yahoo! Messenger : http://fr.messenger.yahoo.com



From grante at visi.com  Wed Jan 17 17:13:31 2001
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 22:13:31 GMT
Subject: gettings mounted file systems [newbie]
References: <A69BC9CA4B39D411BF2200105A45B45B075B8C44@dhexchange.discoveryhealth.co.za> <mailman.979718839.23204.python-list@python.org> <9444og$h7s$1@sunnews.cern.ch> <lt8zoaoysp.fsf@nathan.gold.siebend.net>
Message-ID: <fOo96.171$eI2.99059@ruti.visi.com>

In article <lt8zoaoysp.fsf at nathan.gold.siebend.net>, Guido Goldstein wrote:
>
>Hi!
>
>On 17 Jan 2001 12:55:44 GMT
>  garabik at center.fmph.uniba.sk.spam (Radovan Garabik) wrote:
>> Moshe Zadka <moshez at zadka.site.co.il> wrote:
>[...]
>>  : Why not parse /etc/mtab?
[...]
>> basically, you have no easy portable way, except of
>> walking through all possible mount points and checking
>> os.path.ismount()
>
>Question 1:
>What do you mean with: "... possible mount points..."?

You start at "/" and recursively traverse the entire tree.

>Question 2:

>Am I right when I say: mount w/o any options prints all mounted
>devices to stdout?

On Unix-type systems it generally will.  The format varies
somewhat between systems.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  Look DEEP into the
                                  at               OPENINGS!! Do you see any
                               visi.com            ELVES or EDSELS... or a
                                                   HIGHBALL??...


From rjones at inficad.com  Sat Jan 27 15:19:38 2001
From: rjones at inficad.com (Robert Jones)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 20:19:38 GMT
Subject: newbie...
References: <QZM76.20111$n5.335569@news6.giganews.com>
Message-ID: <3a732cbf.4676525@news.inficad.com>

On Fri, 12 Jan 2001 18:06:25 -0600, "Matt Frey"
<freydaddy at kricket.net> wrote:

>Where is a good place to learn python?
>
>

The tutorial (which I got with the Python download) is helpful, if you
already know several languages. If you are a true newbie, you need
more. I found "Learning Python" published by O'Riley to be very good.
It won't make you an expert, but you will be able to read and
understand programs they wrote, after working through the book. Beyond
that, I find there is no substitute for making my own mistakes.

Good luck!


From johann at physics.berkeley.edu  Tue Jan 23 13:26:54 2001
From: johann at physics.berkeley.edu (Johann Hibschman)
Date: 23 Jan 2001 10:26:54 -0800
Subject: Newbie Question
References: <980192858.449719@iris.nyx.net> <mtzogjp8f6.fsf@astron.berkeley.edu> <980209431.708582@iris.nyx.net>
Message-ID: <mt8zo2ruoh.fsf@astron.berkeley.edu>

sarayu balu writes:

> Johann Hibschman <johann at physics.berkeley.edu> wrote:
> : Which version of gtk/glib are you using?  I'm using python 2.0 with
> : gtk 1.2.6 and 1.2.8 without problem, using pygtk-0.6.6.
>  I am using 1.2.8.
> Thanks,
> -SB

Okay, I don't know exactly why you're having problems.  1.2.8 seems
to work without a hitch for me.  Was your python compiled without
thread support, perhaps?

Checking the GLib documentation at www.gtk.org, I found this under
the description for g_thread_init:

   Note: To use g_thread_init() in your program, you have to link with
   the libraries, that the command "glib-config --libs gthread"
   outputs. This is not the case for all the other thread related
   functions of GLib. Those can be used without having to link with
   the thread libraries.

Maybe that's what's going wrong?  In any case, that's the extent of
my knowledge.  Good luck.

-- 
Johann Hibschman                           johann at physics.berkeley.edu


From claird at starbase.neosoft.com  Tue Jan 30 13:34:47 2001
From: claird at starbase.neosoft.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: 30 Jan 2001 12:34:47 -0600
Subject: Making a hyperlink in a text widget
References: <mailman.980750435.23347.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4838C45CCBC20639.56C332F26C126E45.209C98650948189D@lp.airnews.net>

In article <mailman.980750435.23347.python-list at python.org>,
Lynn Walton  <waltonl at franklin.edu> wrote:
>I read in the tk intro on text widgets that you can make hyperlinks in
>text widgets by using the text.tag_bind method.
>
>I'm wondering if anyone could share some code examples with me that
>would do the following on a windows platform (98 and/or 2000) :
>- display a URL (a file:///  so it opens a file on the local drive) in
>the text widget  that when clicked on opens that file in the default
>browser on that machine, or if that's too generic, opens Netscape 4.x if
>installed as default browser.
			.
			.
			.
Do you read Tcl?  While I don't have an example of this in
Tkinter at hand, the Tcl crowd constantly plays with this
sort of stuff <URL: http://mini.net/cgi-bin/wikit/1194.html >.
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at NeoSoft.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://starbase.neosoft.com/~claird/home.html


From kkoller at newfocus.com  Thu Jan 25 13:34:01 2001
From: kkoller at newfocus.com (Ken Koller)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 10:34:01 -0800
Subject: [Q]: Crash using Python 2.0 Extension
Message-ID: <3A707199.FBDF1A81@newfocus.com>

Hi,

I originally wrote the routine below to return Py_None, but the
interpretter would crash after calling the routine several times (maybe
100-200) in a row. At first I thought it had something to do with the
routines I was calling from my DLL (even though the worked fine when
called from C++), but I commented out all the code except for the return
statement and it still crashed. I noticed that my routines that used
"built" return values seemed to be fine. So I added bogus return values
(doesn't hurt really) and everything is fine.

Am I missing something. I found it hard to believe someone hasn't seen
this problem. I'm running 2.0 on WinNT4.0.

Thanks,

Ken

static PyObject * pt_pSetModule(PyObject * self, PyObject * args)
{
 u8 i;

 if (!PyArg_ParseTuple(args, "b", &i)) return NULL;

 pSetModule(i);

 return Py_BuildValue("i", 0);
}




From tim.one at home.com  Sun Jan  7 04:09:53 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2001 04:09:53 -0500
Subject: Iterating over multiple lists (a newbie question)
In-Reply-To: <937rgo01rvo@news1.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCIECLIHAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Alex Martelli]
> ...
> The map builtin function, OTOH, does need to know the length of
> each sequence in advance (and the _longest_ one controls, with
> the others being 'extended' with as many 'None' as needed), so,
> no such techniques (tricks?-) are available in that case.

Actually, they are.  map is controlled by IndexError, same as everything
else.  It's a rather muddy historical tale as to why it insists that len(s)
be defined for each sequence argument s, but the largest of those is used
only as "a hint", to preallocate a result list.  If the last occurrence of
IndexError occurs before or after that length is reached, map shrinks or
grows the result list accordingly.

>>> class Liar:
	def __getitem__(self, i): # really has length 3
	    return "abc"[i]

>>> class LowLiar(Liar):
        def __len__(self): return 0

>>> class HighLiar(Liar):
        def __len__(self): return 100000

>>> x = LowLiar()
>>> len(x)
0
>>> map(None, x)
['a', 'b', 'c']
>>> y = HighLiar()
>>> len(y)
100000
>>> map(None, y)
['a', 'b', 'c']
>>>




From prestonlanders at my-deja.com  Wed Jan 10 11:52:25 2001
From: prestonlanders at my-deja.com (Preston Landers)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 16:52:25 GMT
Subject: why is this namespace weirdness happening?
References: <93i3f7$122$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <93i404$1kd$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

In article <93i3f7$122$1 at nnrp1.deja.com>,
  Preston Landers <prestonlanders at my-deja.com> wrote:
> However, it seems
> strange that it only fails if there is an odd number of import
> statements for that module.

I meant, it fails with an odd number of import statements inside the
function, i.e, not counting the import at the top of the file.

Preston

--
|| Preston Landers <prestonlanders at my-deja.com> ||


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From simon at callan.demon.co.uk  Sat Jan  6 18:36:15 2001
From: simon at callan.demon.co.uk (Simon Callan)
Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2001 23:36:15 +0000
Subject: Migrating to perl?
References: <3Fa56.4580$of7.216286@news1.atl> <mailman.978670867.31055.python-list@python.org> <V%c56.4648$of7.221797@news1.atl> 
 <BLj56.3858$XZ5.132068@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com> <6Nk56.822$4Z.64804@news2.atl> <934nse02oal@news2.newsguy.com> <3A571F1E.2D25E978@python.net> 
 <slrn95f3g5.vnu.scarblac@pino.selwerd.nl>
Message-ID: <b193d8384a.simon@satin.callan.demon.co.uk>

In message <slrn95f3g5.vnu.scarblac at pino.selwerd.nl>
          scarblac at pino.selwerd.nl (Remco Gerlich) wrote:

> Thomas A. Bryan <tbryan at python.net> wrote in comp.lang.python:
> > That's funny.  Although there *is* more than one way to do this in
> > Python,  Python users don't seem to care for exercises in finding
> > and displaying  "neat tricks" in Python.  Most of the newsgroup
> > postings seem to be  discussion of usage of a particular module,
> > how the language (should)  work, and implementing a well-designed
> > class/component.
> > 
> > Of course, there was the one time that Gerrit claimed to have
> > ripped  off the open and close brace keys from his keyboard
> > because of his  zeal for Python.  I remember a long discussion
> > about how to slice and  index without brackets.  :)
> 
> And the answers that go like: 
> 
> "No, there's no way to do that."
> 
> (pause during which something horrible clicks in the posters' mind) 
> 
> "Actually, you *could* take the bytecodehacks module, a traceback
> from a dummy exception, 2cc of mouse blood, and a marshalled code
> object..."

You don't actually need the mouse blood - you can use an egg, but it
has to be a fresh egg.

Simon

-- 
http://www.callan.demon.co.uk/simon/


From s2mdalle at titan.vcu.edu  Thu Jan  4 23:51:45 2001
From: s2mdalle at titan.vcu.edu (David Allen)
Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 04:51:45 GMT
Subject: Pmw exceptions
Message-ID: <Bpc56.514$bR3.150339@typhoon2.ba-dsg.net>

I'm close to my wit's end with regard to these problems
I've been having with Pmw of late...here's the exception
that keeps happening in a completely unreproduceable
way, at random times:

Traceback (innermost last):
  File "/usr/lib/python1.5/lib-tk/Tkinter.py", line 764, in __call__
    return apply(self.func, args)
  File "/usr/lib/python1.5/lib-tk/Tkinter.py", line 227, in callit
    apply(func, args)
  File "/usr/lib/python1.5/site-packages/Pmw/Pmw_0_8_4/lib/PmwScrolledFrame.py", line 335, in _scrollBothNow
    xview = self._getxview()
  File "/usr/lib/python1.5/site-packages/Pmw/Pmw_0_8_4/lib/PmwScrolledFrame.py", line 251, in _getxview
    clipperWidth = self._clipper.winfo_width()
  File "/usr/lib/python1.5/lib-tk/Tkinter.py", line 442, in winfo_width
    return getint(
TclError: bad window path name ".135904648.136185616.136517944.136580888.136581216.136582336"

In this example, I'm using Pmw 0.8.4 and Python 1.5.2,
but I've also done the same thing many times with 
python 2.0, Tkinter-2.0-8.0, Pmw 0.8.4.

The thing is that none of my code is causing these
exceptions - it seems to be Pmw.  Also in some situations
with ScrolledFrame widgets, exceptions get thrown
related to the scrollbars:

Exception in Tkinter callback
Traceback (innermost last):
  File "/usr/lib/python1.5/lib-tk/Tkinter.py", line 764, in __call__
    return apply(self.func, args)
  File "/usr/lib/python1.5/lib-tk/Tkinter.py", line 227, in callit
    apply(func, args)                                             
  File "/usr/lib/python1.5/site-packages/Pmw/Pmw_0_8_4/lib/PmwScrolledFrame.py",
+line 337, in _scrollBothNow
    self._horizScrollbar.set(xview[0], xview[1])
  File "/usr/lib/python1.5/lib-tk/Tkinter.py", line 1620, in set
    self.tk.call((self._w, 'set') + args)
TclError: invalid command name
+".135436696.136171776.136299000.136254976.136330840"

And then totally random ones that are related to
my code, but not in any way that I can see that
changing anything would help:

Unhandled exception in thread:
Traceback (innermost last):
  File "./TkGui.py", line 410, in download_function
    contentKey = self.createContentFrame(request)
  File "./TkGui.py", line 496, in createContentFrame
    wid  = self.responseToWidget(resp, resource)
  File "./TkGui.py", line 612, in responseToWidget
    resp, resource, filename)
  File "./GUIFile.py", line 46, in __init__
    vscrollmode='static')
  File "/usr/lib/python1.5/site-packages/Pmw/Pmw_0_8_4/lib/PmwScrolledText.py", line 92, in __init__
    self.initialiseoptions(ScrolledText)
  File "/usr/lib/python1.5/site-packages/Pmw/Pmw_0_8_4/lib/PmwBase.py", line 565, in initialiseoptions
    func()
  File "/usr/lib/python1.5/site-packages/Pmw/Pmw_0_8_4/lib/PmwScrolledText.py", line 176, in _vscrollMode
    self._configureScrollCommands()
  File "/usr/lib/python1.5/site-packages/Pmw/Pmw_0_8_4/lib/PmwScrolledText.py", line 190, in _configureScrollCommands
    self._textbox.deletecommand(tclCommandName)
  File "/usr/lib/python1.5/lib-tk/Tkinter.py", line 157, in deletecommand
    self.tk.deletecommand(name)
TclError: can't delete Tcl command

The source for the complete program I'm talking about
in all of this is at 
http://opop.nols.com/proggie/forg-0.03.1.tar.gz
It's a Gopher client using Tkinter/Pmw.

Does anybody have any idea why any of these are 
happening, or how I can fix them? I've mailed the
Pmw maintainer about the ones that seem to be
purely Pmw's fault, but I haven't gotten any response.

I've been on several IRC channels chatting about this,
and some people seem to think that these TclError's
just happen, and that there isn't much you can do
about them.  That can't *possibly* be right. Is it?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.
-- 
David Allen
http://opop.nols.com/


From root at rainerdeyke.com  Sun Jan 28 16:11:26 2001
From: root at rainerdeyke.com (Rainer Deyke)
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 21:11:26 GMT
Subject: Hack request: rational numbers
References: <951h34$tch$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, <Pine.LNX.4.21.0101251759070.28148-100000@kev.ioc.ee> <mailman.980702855.389.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <2W%c6.128157$ge4.46108705@news2.rdc2.tx.home.com>

"Moshe Zadka" <moshez at zadka.site.co.il> wrote in message
news:mailman.980702855.389.python-list at python.org...
> On Sun, 28 Jan 2001 16:24:10 GMT, chaoweilun at my-deja.com wrote:
>
> > Sorry,BTW,could anyone tell me,why the letter "j" is used
> > to represent complex numbers, but not "i"?
>
> Guido believes there should be one way to do everything, so in some
> ancient time he polled the python-list, and since there were more
engineers
> then mathematicians, "j" won.
>
> "j" is very common to denote the square root of -1 in engineering since
> "i" denotes current.

Why not add native quaternion support to Python?  Quaternions are complex
numbers where the imaginary part is a vector in three dimensions, defined in
terms of unit vectors i, j, and k.  The following properties hold true:

i*i = -1
i*j = k
i*k = -j
j*i = -k
j*j = -1
j*k = i
k*i = j
k*j = -i
k*k = -1


--
Rainer Deyke (root at rainerdeyke.com)
Shareware computer games           -           http://rainerdeyke.com
"In ihren Reihen zu stehen heisst unter Feinden zu kaempfen" - Abigor




From p at mjs400.co.uk  Sat Jan 13 18:05:10 2001
From: p at mjs400.co.uk (Pete)
Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 00:05:10 +0100
Subject: do python programmers avoid the mac?
References: <3A607DCC.7EF7809C@mjs400.co.uk> <Uy086.5867$Qb7.841014@newsb.telia.net>
Message-ID: <3A60DF26.C7B6F785@mjs400.co.uk>

Hi Fredrik

Played with python on mac OS 9 for a few months...lots of loud noises
(me when it crashes again.) I'm thinking that with far fewer
developer-eyes off the main-stream this thing is never going to be
stable enough...I'll be patient and hope that Mac OS X is a more of a
hit with the technical bods that matter. 

Although thinking about Mr Job's promise of OS X being a first-class
Java environment and exposing lots of neat OS features, perhaps Jython
could be the answer? 

Ta
Fredrik Lundh wrote:
> 
> Pete wrote:
> > Ordinary Bloke seeks stable python2.0 mac ide environment for possible
> > long term development antics. Don't tell me to buy a noisy steenkin
> > intel fat box.
> 
> python.org => downloads => macintosh:
> http://www.python.org/download/download_mac.html
> 
> Cheers /F


From j.spies at hccnet.nl  Wed Jan 31 10:46:05 2001
From: j.spies at hccnet.nl (Jaap Spies)
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 16:46:05 +0100
Subject: Java-complex numbers
References: <957b1q$m1h$1@camelot.unirioja.es> <958bpo$qb0$1@merope.saaf.se>
Message-ID: <3A78333D.70700@hccnet.nl>

Paul Schlyter wrote:

> In article <957b1q$m1h$1 at camelot.unirioja.es>,
> Jesus Maria Aransay <jesus-maria.aransay at dmc.unirioja.es> wrote:
>  
> 
>> I need some help for working in JAVA with complex numbers.
>> Could I find some classes or libraries for doing easier my work?
> 
>  
> You could hack such a class yourself in an hour or two, and it
> would be a good experience for you to do it.  It would also teach
> you that Java isn't really suitable for computation with complex
> numbers, because Java cannot overload infix operators.
>

 
I  agree!

 
> Why do you want to do this?  To learn Java?  Well, go ahead and do
> it!  Or because you need to do the computations?  If the latter, it's
> better to switch to a language with better supoport (either built-in
> or through classes) for complex numbers, such as C++ or Fortran.

No, no, no! Try Python or Jython

http://www.python.org/
http://www.jython.org/

Jaap Spies



From quinn at ngwee.ugcs.caltech.edu  Sat Jan 13 00:11:04 2001
From: quinn at ngwee.ugcs.caltech.edu (Quinn Dunkan)
Date: 13 Jan 2001 05:11:04 GMT
Subject: newbie...
References: <mailman.979345994.23489.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrn95vor8.lle.quinn@ngwee.ugcs.caltech.edu>

On Fri, 12 Jan 2001 19:32:16 -0500 (EST), Steven D. Majewski
<sdm7g at virginia.edu> wrote:
>
>
>On Fri, 12 Jan 2001, Matt Frey wrote:
>
>> Where is a good place to learn python?
>
>At home, 
>in the office, ... 

Not at home, not in the office.  I do not like python, Mr. Majewski.

Not on the client?  Not on the server?  Not in your scripts directory?

Not on the client!  Not on the server!  In the python language I will not
hack.

Not under windows?  Not on a unix?  Not even for small jobs, running on a Mac?

etc. etc.

(we already know how it ends, of course)



Sorry... they made me do it... it couldn't be helped...  how could I have
known that they're really 


From erno-news at erno.iki.fi  Wed Jan  3 20:12:44 2001
From: erno-news at erno.iki.fi (Erno Kuusela)
Date: 04 Jan 2001 03:12:44 +0200
Subject: Playing an .mov, .avi etc. file??
References: <92vsna$hdq$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <kupui4nmr7.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>

In article <92vsna$hdq$1 at nnrp1.deja.com>, harrc at my-deja.com writes:

| Does anyone know of a good way from Python to play a video file (.avi
| or .mpg or .mov)?  Or even better, a way to play slected tracks off a
| DVD?

there is no built in mechanism in python for these tasks.

what platform are you on? there is still likely a non-portable
way to make it happen.

 -- erno


From jhauser at ifm.uni-kiel.de  Sat Jan 13 13:07:07 2001
From: jhauser at ifm.uni-kiel.de (Janko Hauser)
Date: 13 Jan 2001 19:07:07 +0100
Subject: Web devel with python. Whats the best route?
References: <93plkv$c4e$4@newshost.accu.uu.nl> <93pii2$c4c$2@newshost.accu.uu.nl> <mailman.979331115.13089.python-list@python.org> <mailman.979391354.21685.python-list@python.org> <mailman.979406475.31968.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87d7drmilw.fsf@lisboa.ifm.uni-kiel.de>

Just to help, I have also seen the broken messages coming from my news
server. And thanks Moshe, that you include the full stuff in your
replies, so I can follow in both mysterious and plain style.

__Janko

-- 
  Institut fuer Meereskunde             phone: 49-431-597 3989
  Dept. Theoretical Oceanography        fax  : 49-431-565876
  Duesternbrooker Weg 20                email: jhauser at ifm.uni-kiel.de
  24105 Kiel, Germany


From kpmurphy at my-deja.com  Thu Jan 25 13:04:33 2001
From: kpmurphy at my-deja.com (Keith Murphy)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 18:04:33 GMT
Subject: sockets: client dies...
References: <94kmt5$cuj$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <94ksfl$r2a$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu> <94ngqn$rph$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <3A6F8AB1.BDF23F5D@home.com> <94pj8n$jfl$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <94pn5h$t3e$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <94ppr8$qac$1@nnrp1.deja.com>


> Yes, frankly that's lame, but that's beside the point.
>
> Where you have
>          data = ''
>          data = string.strip(u.conn.recv(1024))
>
> Do this:
> 	data = u.conn.recv(1024)
>         if not data:
>             u.hold_funeral()
>         data = string.strip(data)
>
> To reiterate:  When the client dies, the connection will close.
> When the connection has closed, recv() will return an empty string,
> length == 0.
>
> Now, about that exception.  There are hardly any good places to trap
> every possible exception, indiscriminately, and then just "pass" in
> the except block.  This certainly ain't one of those places.  Here's
> what I think I would do:
>
>     try:
>         data = u.conn.recv(1024)
>     except socket.error, excval:
>         if excval.errno == errno.EAGAIN:
>             pass
>         raise
>
> ... OK, I lied.  I wouldn't do that.  I really never want to set
> a socket nonblocking, and therefore I would never write that
> exception handler.  Your code will execute more efficiently if you
> use select(), and then you won't need nonblocking either.
(Non-blocking
> does something for connect(), but that's a more advanced topic.)
>
> 	Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu
>

first of all, i'd like to thank mr cave, and everyone for their help
thus far.

if i don't setblocking to 0, then it will get hung up on one client...
waiting for a message, right?  i'm afraid i don't know what select()
is...

i guess what i'd like is a better way to sit around and listen to n
hosts, and be able to detect when one has died.

much thanks again,
::keith


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From trclark at home.com  Sun Jan 14 20:42:34 2001
From: trclark at home.com (TC)
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 01:42:34 GMT
Subject: PHP vs Python
Message-ID: <eAs86.7767$ED.239213@news1.rdc1.bc.home.com>

Hi
I did a quick search for deja python +php +review
not even 1 relevent hit ...so
any takers points of interest

0- how long is a peice of string ? ;)

1-which one is going to be around longer, why ??


2-who has more users

3-who hits the wall in scaling up and or handing complexity

4-general performance

5-where would I be better off using PHP over Python

6-DB interfaces consistent
   -seems python has a standad API PHP appears all over the map depending on
DB












From joseamartin at venmex.com  Mon Jan  8 15:35:40 2001
From: joseamartin at venmex.com (Jose Martin)
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 16:35:40 -0400
Subject: jouk, new size for your chemises
Message-ID: <t5k9qhmhsien85@corp.supernews.com>

The new size is XML ;-)





From dockeen at aol.com  Mon Jan 29 21:55:04 2001
From: dockeen at aol.com (Dockeen)
Date: 30 Jan 2001 02:55:04 GMT
Subject: Calling an exe within Python
Message-ID: <20010129215504.07374.00004165@ng-fi1.aol.com>

If I were to use Python as a controller / integrator for a number of
stand-alone executables, then I would need to call those exe files from within
Python

(1) Easy question, is this possible?
(2) When I do such a call, does execution within the Python script wait for the
exe to finish or does it spawn a new threat for the exe and move on?

Wayne

However dumb you think my questions are, they are nowhere near as
intellectually challenged as I am.


From m.faassen at vet.uu.nl  Thu Jan 11 10:13:50 2001
From: m.faassen at vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen)
Date: 11 Jan 2001 15:13:50 GMT
Subject: Web devel with python. Whats the best route?
References: <93cqvi0191h@news1.newsguy.com> <mailman.978910629.6814.python-list@python.org> <mailman.978975978.19612.python-list@python.org> <spenrose-E755EB.22423209012001@news.dnai.com> <93hfp1013sm@news2.newsguy.com> <spenrose-149DD9.22095710012001@news.dnai.com> <93juec0fk6@news1.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <93kije$cgg$1@newshost.accu.uu.nl>

Alex Martelli <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote:
[snip]
>     Even if the (somewhat richer/more complicated/more flexible and
>     indirect) '3-pronged' approach is used, the presentation language
>     template will still have to be using SOME kinds of markers to
>     signify [a] substitution points for Python-computed values, [b]
>     pieces that need to be repeated and conditions for repetition,
>     [c] conditionally-included pieces (could be framed as a special
>     case of [b] with 0 or 1 'repetitions').  [b] in particular seems
>     to require some sort of minilanguage, and I don't see a need to
>     invent, document, and implement a special-purpose minilanguage
>     for something I can better express directly in Python.

[snip lots more of martellibot text]

Yes, some kind of markers are necessary. In Zope, DTML does that job, 
but since DTML, though it can be nice, has also been called "Perl for
the web" due too far too much magic, various people at Digital
Creations and Hiperlogica are experimenting with another approach to
this, called HiperDOM. Its approach is interesting:

http://www.zope.org/Wikis/DevSite/Projects/HiperDom/PrototypeDocumentation

(though the Zope site seems to be in a major kind of flake-out mode now,
 so this URL may or not work for you :)

The idea is that instead of custom tags, things happen in XHTML attributes,
and each template can be a full web page by itself too, editable by
WYSIWIG tools, as long as those tools leave the extra attributes
intact.

Regards,

Martijn



From jafo-pythonlist at tummy.com  Thu Jan 25 04:54:02 2001
From: jafo-pythonlist at tummy.com (Sean Reifschneider)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 02:54:02 -0700
Subject: Why does using threads not speed up things?
In-Reply-To: <94oob9$ahq$1@newsreaderg1.core.theplanet.net>; from fgeiger@datec.at on Thu, Jan 25, 2001 at 09:33:36AM +0100
References: <94oob9$ahq$1@newsreaderg1.core.theplanet.net>
Message-ID: <20010125025402.E17016@tummy.com>

On Thu, Jan 25, 2001 at 09:33:36AM +0100, Franz GEIGER wrote:
>As I said I'd expected more, because there is a lot of slow disk I/O
>involved and data transfer over a 10MBit section of our LAN. Or did I miss
>something?

I think you missed the part where you're supposed to profile your code to
determine exactly where the time is being spent.  For example, it may
be that you can get a big win on typical traffic by running it through
the zlib module to compress the data-stream.  If you have more CPU than
bandwidth.

The gains you might achieve depend largely on what your app is doing,
of course.  If it spends 90% of it's time trying to shove data over the
network, the best improvement you can hope for without reducing the amount
of data you send is 10%, right?

Sean
-- 
 "Action...  Romance...  Welding...  That movie has everything."
                 -- Evelyn Mitchell speaking about _Subway_, 1998
Sean Reifschneider, Inimitably Superfluous <jafo at tummy.com>
tummy.com - Linux Consulting since 1995. Qmail, KRUD, Firewalls, Python



From claird at starbase.neosoft.com  Tue Jan 23 09:52:31 2001
From: claird at starbase.neosoft.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: 23 Jan 2001 08:52:31 -0600
Subject: Python/C++ for graphics vs. other languages?
References: <mailman.980225485.12027.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <C561EF78F44BCFBC.695A1531ED4F4EAF.D1609371B72F8907@lp.airnews.net>

In article <mailman.980225485.12027.python-list at python.org>,
Mark Wilson <m.wilson at bibliocraft.com> wrote:
>Doug Ball said
>
>>I am very much enjoying learning and applying python,
>however I find myself tasked with writing a potentially
>large graphics intensive program that will we speed
>sensitive.
>
>>I would be grateful if any of you could share your
>experiences with hybrid Python/C++ approaches to such
>applications vs. using compiled high-level languages like
>Dylan, Common Lisp or Objective Caml.
>
>If you want to use Python as your user-interface glue - say
>to control the graphics transformations your app can
>perform, then I think you'll find it exceptionally
>acceptable. In this capacity, success depends on how well
			.
		[an abundance of other wisdom]
			.
			.
Yes.  Everything Mr. Wilson has written is
correct and applicable.

I want to add a few remarks.  Dylan, Common
Lisp, and OCaML are great languages.  You
might have specific requirements that make
any of these ideal.  Part of our confidence
in urging Python on you, though, is that even
for the situations where, say, OCaML is per-
fect, a well-crafted Python solution is likely
to lie only a small multiple away.

"... [A] potentially large graphics intensive
program that will be speed sensitive ..."
covers a great deal of territory.  We can give
more precise advice with more precise know-
ledge, of course.

Python enjoys a range of GUI toolkit choices
<URL: http://starbase.neosoft.com/~claird/comp.lang.python/py_GUI.html >
that is essentially unmatched.  This contrasts
sharply with, say, Dylan.  I have zero idea
whether this matters in your particular project.
Incidentally, I'm just now wrapping up a series
<URL: http://starbase.neosoft.com/~claird/comp.windows.misc/toolkits.html >
of profiles of the leading general-purpose GUI
toolkits; this might be useful to you at some
point.

I'll make it explicit:  performance of a good
interpreted Python GUI toolkit binding is
indistinguishable from that of the compiled
functional language GUI toolkits, for the
majority of common applications.  It's impos-
sible to know whether you're in the category
of projects where there's a significant differ-
ence, in the absence of more details.
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at NeoSoft.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://starbase.neosoft.com/~claird/home.html


From erno-news at erno.iki.fi  Sun Jan 14 03:34:37 2001
From: erno-news at erno.iki.fi (Erno Kuusela)
Date: 14 Jan 2001 10:34:37 +0200
Subject: Web devel with python. Whats the best route?
References: <mailman.978910629.6814.python-list@python.org> <93cqvi0191h@news1.newsguy.com> <kuofxhi4d2.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi> <93om7l$p6s$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <kusnmmfs6a.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>

In article <93om7l$p6s$1 at nnrp1.deja.com>, echuck at mindspring.com writes:

| In article <kuofxhi4d2.fsf at lasipalatsi.fi>,
|   Erno Kuusela <erno-news at erno.iki.fi> wrote:

|| lately i've come to the conclusion that the best way to do session
|| tracking (certainly better than cookies) is to generate a unique id
|| and put it in the url as a path component. something like
|| http://my.site/my-program/0dj2/operation or whatever. 

| One disadvantage with the above is that if the session data expires
| after some period of inactivity (a common practice on various web
| sites), then the URLs resulting from the above technique are not
| bookmarkable. You might be able to detect this on the server side and
| compensate to make them so, but then that's just as ugly or more so
| than using cookies.

in my eye, the ugliness of cookies lies in their "out-of-bandness",
so i do consider the session-id-in-url approach prettier even
when i have to detect expired sessions.

> this has the advantage of
|| b) making the session portable in the sense that you can
||    take a url to another machine and have it work

| Also, is (b) really an advantage? How often do you need to take a URL
| to another machine?

pretty often. mail it to a friend, etc.

|| c) making it work with search engines
| I'm not clear on (c) and search engines. If a session is related to a
| specific user, doesn't that imply that:
|  1. the searchbot gets it's own session id,
|  2. stores the id in the URL and
|  3. now when a user finds the URL via the search engine, they click in
| and are considered to be "AltaVista"?

presumably the session has expired by then and the user is redirected
to a url with a fresh session string. one can also encode the client
address in the url and check it.

| On the contrary, using cookies gives you clean URLs like:
|   http://host.com/docs/faq/
| Which when clicked through a search engine will not come in with a
| session id that is either expired or inaccurate, like
| http://host.com/89dfgk49f/docs/faq would.

this is true.

| Item (d) says cookies are ugly. What's ugly about this:?
|   Set-Cookie: use=webware;
| Or the clean URLs described above? Session ids are for the eyes of
| programmers, not users.

cookies are an ugly kludge in http because they are logically
part of the information needed to locate the object in the http
request, but they are outside of the path in the request. and they hurt
cacheability.

they are a pain to manage for users, who have to enable them for your
site. which is often painful since many browsers don't provide for
this functionality - users have to rely on a 3rd party proxy or
somesuch to do the filtering.

of course this is small potatoes in the nauseating sea of terrifying
kludges that is the current world wide web, so most people don't care
very much.

| In summary, I think cookies are both clean and convenient, if you're
| confident your user base has them.

i think we'll have to agree to disagree.

  -- erno


From ehagemann at home.com  Fri Jan  5 20:19:03 2001
From: ehagemann at home.com (Eric Hagemann)
Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2001 01:19:03 GMT
Subject: socket block ????
References: <rE956.234587$RP.45612789@news1.rdc1.md.home.com> <qnf56.3807$Qb7.492790@newsb.telia.net>
Message-ID: <bou56.1246$mF.414806@news1.rdc1.md.home.com>

Thanks -- major brain fart here.

I've done plenty of socket stuff in C, I think I wanted to believe that
blocking == buffered (in python) and so i _believed_  thats what the doc's
said.

I'll give the makefile thing a try, is there a performance penalty in using
that interface ?  Am I better off doing the 'buffering' explicitly in Python
or behind the scenes in the file module.  In my case I am moving lots of
small chunks of data ~1KB  to move a large file 16 MB. Any opinions ?

Cheers
Eric

"Fredrik Lundh" <fredrik at effbot.org> wrote in message
news:qnf56.3807$Qb7.492790 at newsb.telia.net...
> Eric Hagemann wrote:
> > Making use of the socket module, the library manual indicates that the
> > default behavior of the module is to block on a read or a write.  But
when
> > using socket.recv(buf) some times it returns before reading len(buf)
bytes.
>
> buffered != blocking
>
> In blocking mode, recv guarantees that it will wait for
> *some* data from the other end before it returns.
>
> To get buffered behaviour, use the "makefile" method
> to get a buffered file interface to the socket, and read
> via that interface.
>
> here's a typical excerpt from a client program:
>
>   sock = socket.socket(socket.AF_INET, socket.SOCK_STREAM)
>   sock.connect((host, port))
>   file = sock.makefile("rb")
>   data = file.read(1024) # get first kilobyte from server
>
> in a client, you usually only need to buffer input (to simplify
> parsing).  to send data, use unbuffered "send" as usual.  if
> you prefer buffered output too, don't forget to "flush" data
> before trying to read a response from the server
>
> Hope this helps!
>
> Cheers /F
>
> <!-- (the eff-bot guide to) the standard python library:
> http://www.pythonware.com/people/fredrik/librarybook.htm
> -->
>
>
>




From fredrik at effbot.org  Sun Jan 14 08:51:05 2001
From: fredrik at effbot.org (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 13:51:05 GMT
Subject: reading line by line
References: <I4i86.290010$_5.65173315@news4.rdc1.on.home.com>
Message-ID: <d9i86.6515$AH6.966365@newsc.telia.net>

Michael P. Soulier wrote:
> file = open(filename, "r")
> line = file.readline()
> while line:
>     # work on file
>     line = file.readline()
>
>     But I don't like the initial readline() call to initialize line. It just
> doesn't look clean to me. Is there a better way, syntactically, to
> do this?

The standard pydiom is:

    while 1:
        line = file.readline()
        if not line:
            break
        ...

In the current cvs version, you can also use:

    for line in file.xreadlines():
        ...

where xreadlines is a lazy version of readlines (cf. xrange)

Cheers /F




From phd at phd.pp.ru  Tue Jan 23 05:29:54 2001
From: phd at phd.pp.ru (Oleg Broytmann)
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 13:29:54 +0300 (MSK)
Subject: urllib.urlretrieve("http://free.bsdshell.net/")
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0101231326480.9765-100000@fep132.fep.ru>

Hello!

   Strange problem with urllib: urlretrieve("http://free.bsdshell.net/")
always reports "Connection refused". Always:

Traceback (innermost last):
  File "./url-test.py", line 8, in ?
    f, h = urlretrieve(sys.argv[1])
  File "/usr/local/lib/python1.5/urllib.py", line 66, in urlretrieve
    return _urlopener.retrieve(url, filename, reporthook)
  File "/usr/local/lib/python1.5/urllib.py", line 184, in retrieve
    fp = self.open(url)
  File "/usr/local/lib/python1.5/urllib.py", line 157, in open
    return getattr(self, name)(url)
  File "/usr/local/lib/python1.5/urllib.py", line 253, in open_http
    h = httplib.HTTP(host)
  File "/usr/local/lib/python1.5/httplib.py", line 51, in __init__
    if host: self.connect(host, port)
  File "/usr/local/lib/python1.5/httplib.py", line 79, in connect
    self.sock.connect(host, port)
IOError: [Errno socket error] (111, 'Connection refused')

   But I always can connect to the site using any WWW browser. What could
be wrong? (Both python 1.5.2 and 2.0 have the problem...)

Oleg.
----
     Oleg Broytmann            http://phd.pp.ru/            phd at phd.pp.ru
           Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN.




From fuess at home.com  Sat Jan 27 21:22:36 2001
From: fuess at home.com (David A. Fuess)
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 02:22:36 GMT
Subject: Tkinter vs wxPython: your opinions?
References: <3A6F899F.E164F628@home.com> <94ogkm$ggb$2@news1.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <7IFzOq+6K3pUABA8u3QlB75x+vvU@4ax.com>

I develop SQL/GUI applications for Linux and Windows(98/ME/2000). I
have settled on Tkinter because it is well documented, stable, and
transports well between Linux and Windows.

boud at rempt.xs4all.nl (Boudewijn Rempt) wrote:

>Rick Lee <rwklee at home.com> wrote:
>> It has to be cross platform between Linux and Windows, so it  seems that
>> my choices are Tkinter and wxPython.
>
>PyQt is also crossplatform between Linux and Windows.
>
>> Your experience, thoughts, opinion, on the relative merits and pitfalls
>> of each?
>
>> My particular case:  A GUI that has 5 windows max., will incorporate a
>> xmlrpc client, will have a python object browser, being able to build
>> data entry screens on the fly from a description of an object's
>> attributes, programmer not familiar with either toolkit.
>
>The dynamic building of a data-entry form based on a description
>has already been done before - with PyQt. See the kuragui part
>of kura: http://www.xs4all.nl/~bsarempt/linguistics.
>
>
>-- 
>
>Boudewijn Rempt  | http://www.valdyas.org



From fredrik at effbot.org  Wed Jan 24 02:54:27 2001
From: fredrik at effbot.org (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 07:54:27 GMT
Subject: How do I kill an empty file ??
References: <94k9p5$vs2$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <Hjrb6.9622$d25.61906@newsfeed.slurp.net>
Message-ID: <TSvb6.8998$Qb7.1273054@newsb.telia.net>

"bowman" wrote:
> os.stat(file) will yeild a tuple including st_size. the stat module defines
> indices, so
>
> if  os.stat(file)[ST_SIZE] == 0:
>     pass
>
> or somesuch

os.path.getsize does the same thing, but is a bit
easier to use:

    os.path.getsize(file)

    if not os.path.getsize(file):
        pass

...but in this case, it might be easier to load the file
and just don't do anything if it's empty:

    for file in files:
        data = open(file).readlines()
        if not data:
            continue
        ... prepare to process file ...
        for line in data:
            ... process line in file ...

Cheers /F




From delza at antarcti.ca  Thu Jan 25 11:20:29 2001
From: delza at antarcti.ca (Dethe Elza)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 16:20:29 GMT
Subject: PSU uses emacs?
References: <948e4b$hm0$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <948fvj$oq1$1@panix6.panix.com> <3A67CDC3.7EACB07D@Lugoj.Com> <9490t009on@news2.newsguy.com> <3a685ef2.3403798@reading.news.pipex.net> <949rii0a76@news1.newsguy.com> <3a6eb2fa.2347467@reading.news.pipex.net> <94mtc702d2h@news2.newsguy.com> <3a6f1114.10352226@reading.news.pipex.net>
Message-ID: <hnYb6.1549$_8.17086@news1.rdc1.bc.home.com>

O'Reilly's book is good for learning basic vi, which of course is helpful
when learning vim.  Don't know any good
book on vim, though.  It comes with tons of documentation, but I still like
to have something on dead tree pulp.

Afraid I haven't gotten around to customizing it for Python yet, but I may
try some of the suggestions here.  Out
of the box it handles python syntax highlighting, so it works pretty well
for me.

--Dethe

"Ray Drew" <ray_drew at yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:3a6f1114.10352226 at reading.news.pipex.net...
> On Wed, 24 Jan 2001 16:46:16 +0100, "Alex Martelli"
> <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Thanks to Alex and Roland for your tips; much appreciated.
>
> Is there a good book on vi?
>
> Does anyone have an opinion on O'reilly's 'Learning the vi Editor'?
>
> Ray Drew
> CIA UK
>




From tim.one at home.com  Tue Jan 30 22:20:55 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 22:20:55 -0500
Subject: Python vs Ruby
In-Reply-To: <20010130135138.B22695@harmony.cs.rit.edu>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCCEFFIMAA.tim.one@home.com>

[D-Man]
> ...
> Does the interpreter always call free() when the ref count is 0?

It always calls the object's deallocator then.  Whether the deallocator
calls free() or not is entirely up to it.  Several types maintain their own
free-lists, and it's common for programs using such types to reach a steady
state in which malloc() and free() are hardly ever called again (most
requests are satisified out of the free lists).

> Sometimes (in the short run anyways) gc can produce faster results
> with some operations -- you can keep working and wait to do the actual
> free()ing when the application is idle.

Sure.  Do you care?  The other side of this coin is that if you flat run out
of memory, the collector *has* to run right then, no matter how inconvenient
it may be for you at the time.  refcounting is generally more predictable
that way (your 2 gigabyte array will be reclaimed when *you* drop the last
reference to it, not before, and not 67 seconds after -- you can control
it).

> If the interpreter used gc, it would certainly be simpler to write it
> and extension modules -- no worrying about whether or not to INCREF()
> or DECREF().

Doubt it.  You get to leave out the inc/dec-refs, but in return have to be
exceedingly careful to keep in mind that "the garbage collector" may run at
any time at all, so you end up littering your code with macros anyway, to
block/resume the collector across delicate areas, or force temps into
magical areas the collector is guaranteed to find in the root set, etc etc.
And if you use a relocating collector (which are generally the state of the
art for speed), then *all* your extension code has to live with that objects
may move around in memory whenever you blink.

> ...
> From the python code side of things, it really doesn't matter (much)
> whether ref counting or gc is used.

Python's refcounting usually takes no time to port -- it works right out of
the box, first time, and no matter how strange the box <wink>.  Download the
source code for the BDW collector to see how hairy porting a good non-RC
scheme can get:  the latest version is more than a megabyte of source code
spread over 127 files.

# if defined(LINUX) && !defined(POWERPC)
#   include <linux/version.h>
#   if (LINUX_VERSION_CODE <= 0x10400)
      /* Ugly hack to get struct sigcontext_struct definition.  Required */
      /* for some early 1.3.X releases.  Will hopefully go away soon. */
      /* in some later Linux releases, asm/sigcontext.h may have to   */
      /* be included instead.                                         */
#     define __KERNEL__
#     include <asm/signal.h>
#     undef __KERNEL__
#   else

etc etc.

bdw's-os_dep.c-is-bigger-than-python's-ceval.c-ly y'rs  - tim




From paul.moore at uk.origin-it.com  Thu Jan 11 05:54:31 2001
From: paul.moore at uk.origin-it.com (Paul Moore)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 11:54:31 +0100
Subject: ANN: Stackless Python 2.0
References: <mailman.978910570.6793.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pJBdOlKVitheUmPGE=0grX+KKTSP@4ax.com>

On Sun, 7 Jan 2001 23:37:55 +0100 , Christian Tismer
<tismer at tismer.com> wrote:

>I'm happy to announce that
>
>		Stackless Python 2.0
>
>is finally ready and available for download.
>
>Stackless Python for Python 1.5.2+ also got some minor
>enhancements. Both versions are available as Win32
>installer files here:
>
>http://www.stackless.com/spc20-win32.exe
>http://www.stackless.com/spc15-win32.exe

Can you please describe in detail what the installer does? I have
ActivePython 2.0 installed, and I would like to try Stackless, but I
am not ready to switch over completely. I am concerned (as I always am
with installer packages!) that the installer may write registry
entries and/or install files in the Windows directory which could
clash with standard Python.

Alternatively, is there a binary distribution which is not in
installer format?

Thanks,
Paul Moore



From andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au  Sat Jan 13 02:04:36 2001
From: andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au (Andrew MacIntyre)
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 18:04:36 +1100 (EDT)
Subject: changing unix password via www python script
In-Reply-To: <93no1v$svv$1@sunsite.icm.edu.pl>
Message-ID: <Pine.OS2.4.30.0101131800440.403-100000@CENTRAL>

On Fri, 12 Jan 2001, Vesemir wrote:

> How to change unix account password by python script?
> I want to write www script, controled by form.

Its clumsy and trouble prone, but what I did was use one of the expect
modules (PyExpect?- can't remember for sure), and telnetted to localhost
and executed the password command.  This was in a Solaris environment,
where the passwd program refused to deal with input from a pipe.

I'm open to better ways.

--
Andrew I MacIntyre                     "These thoughts are mine alone..."
E-mail: andrew.macintyre at aba.gov.au    (work) | Snail: PO Box 370
        andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au  (play) |        Belconnen  ACT  2616
        andymac at pcug.org.au           (play2) |        Australia




From sholden at holdenweb.com  Sun Jan  7 20:34:31 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2001 20:34:31 -0500
Subject: How do I get a mimetools.Message object from a mailbox.UnixMailbox object?
References: <vgmh5tkv7h0blpv6j8t1soiipoaum64u7v@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <gQ866.12100$K72.43378@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>

Paul Moore <gustav at morpheus.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:vgmh5tkv7h0blpv6j8t1soiipoaum64u7v at 4ax.com...
> I'm parsing a Unix mbox format file in Python. No problem, that's what
> the mailbox module does...
>
> The problem is, mbx.next() returns a rfc822.Message instance - and my
> mailbox contains MIME-encoded messages with attachments. How do I get
> from the rfc822.Message instance to a mimetools.Message instance?
>
> Thanks,
> Paul Moore
>
The mimecntl module was invented to overcome the impedance mismatch between
mailbox and rfc822, and does so quite well, so you may wish to consider
using that instead.  I've used it fairly extensively and only had one
problem with it (which I'm debgging between times, but haven't looked at
lately).

IRIC my copy came from the Vaults of Parnassus,
http://www.vex.net/parnassus/ in the Internet section.

regards
 Steve




From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Thu Jan  4 07:38:56 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 13:38:56 +0100
Subject: Iterating over multiple lists (a newbie question)
References: <3a539f3a.445366109@localhost>
Message-ID: <931qum02nct@news2.newsguy.com>

"Victor Muslin" <victor at prodigy.net> wrote in message
news:3a539f3a.445366109 at localhost...
> This may be rather silly, but I can't think of a clever way...
>
> To traverse a single list the code is:
>
> for item in list:
> print item

Yep; works for any sequence, not just lists.


> However, if there are multiple lists (of the same length) is there a
> cleverer way to do the following:
>
> for i in range(0,len(list1)):
> print list1[i], list2[i]

Just range(len(list1)) will suffice -- the 0 can be left implied.


> I would like something like this (which obviously does not work):
>
> for one,two in list1, list2:
> print one,two

If the two sequences have identical length, and you're using
Python 2, then the simplest approach is to use the new 'zip'
function, which 'zips' two or more sequences into one sequence
of tuples:
    for one, two in zip(list1, list2):
        print one, two

In older Python versions, map (with a first argument of None)
could play a similar role:
    for one, two in map(None, list1, list2):
        print one, two
and it still works today, though zip is clearer.

But zip and map part company when the sequences can differ in
length.  zip just 'truncates' to the shortest one of the
sequences it's given; map(None, &c) 'lengthens' all sequences
to the length of the longest one, using 'None' to stand in
for "missing" items.

Looping over indices, rather than over items directly (a la
'for i in range(len(list1))' etc, may give you more precise
control on what exactly happens for unequal-length sequences.

But in the common case where using the shortest sequence's
length is what you want, looping-over-contents (with zip)
can be much simpler and handier than looping on indices.


Alex





From donn at oz.net  Fri Jan 19 23:37:57 2001
From: donn at oz.net (Donn Cave)
Date: 20 Jan 2001 04:37:57 GMT
Subject: Python GUI toolkits for BeOS
References: <VZ3a6.2229$3T2.70785@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <94b4n5$64l$0@216.39.151.169>

Quoth "Shannon Menkveld" <yeahright at noway.com>:
| I just got Python 1.5.2 for BeOS (R5 Pro).   know that TKinter has not been
| ported to BeOS, so I was wondering what BeOS python programmers use for
| writing GUI programs.

I have to modestly nominate my own BeOS API modules, see BeBits or
http://www.oz.net/~donn/Bethon.html , as your only option.

The intent of these modules is to translate the native BeOS C++ API
to Python, more or less literally.  You can follow the "Be Book"
programming reference and expect the same classes and functions,
with some reasonably consistent mutations to accommodate Python -
mainly data function returns, and exceptions, where the C++ function
takes pointers to caller's storage and returns status.

There are some limitations, but it's good enough to write real BeOS
applications, and since the system comes with source and the modules
are generated from simple descriptive templates, you may be able to
add to it yourself if necessary (and in fact some of the modules in
the latest distribution were contributed by other programmers.)
I'm still working on it, too.

If it's all the same to you, I would go right out and get the source
for Python 2.0 and build and install it.  It isn't like there are
huge problems with 1.5.2, but 2.0 is the current release and works
fine on BeOS.  I guess I should build up a binary release, with the
works, and distribute that.

	Donn Cave, donn at oz.net


From deblNoSpammy at theworld.com  Wed Jan 31 00:24:41 2001
From: deblNoSpammy at theworld.com (David Lees)
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 05:24:41 GMT
Subject: Command line argument !@#%*!!1?
References: <ehMd6.24253$KP3.7243699@news3.rdc1.on.home.com>
Message-ID: <3A779A9D.BACBB270@theworld.com>

On the same line as the script name.  If the script is named foo.py and
it has a command line argument that you wish to give value 'mumble' then
you enter:

foo.py mumble

It sounds like you need some help on Python basics.
You should take a look at one of the books on Python, such as 'Learning
Python' by Lutz and Ascher or perhaps one such as Alan Gauld's new book
oriented toward beginners: 'Learn to Program Using Python'.

There are also some online tutorials such as:
http://www.crosswinds.net/~agauld/

or better yet, go to http://www.python.org/doc/Intros.html and look at
the intro stuff there.

David Lees

shaka wrote:
> 
> I am trying to run a script that I download and the script does work because
> they want me to enter the command line argument.  How do I do that?


From nielsenjf at my-deja.com  Tue Jan 23 12:31:03 2001
From: nielsenjf at my-deja.com (John Nielsen)
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 17:31:03 GMT
Subject: unpack sequence to tuple?
References: <94j6j1$3na$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <mailman.980234666.18231.python-list@python.org> <94jjtb0108j@news1.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <94kf4n$58u$1@nnrp1.deja.com>


>
> Unfortunately, tuples and lists cannot be concatenated, which
> is why we need to cast the sequence into a definite form here --
> choosing list would of course work just as well:
>
> def padSequence(seq, length):
>     return (list(seq)+[None]*length)[:length]
>

Or you could just use extend. which may be a little clearer.

def padSequence(seq, length):
    a=list(seq)
    a.extend(list((None,)*length))
    return a[:length]

john


--
nielsenjf at my-Deja.com


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From donn at oz.net  Fri Jan 26 03:14:45 2001
From: donn at oz.net (Donn Cave)
Date: 26 Jan 2001 08:14:45 GMT
Subject: I mean *setup.py* ! ... (more questions)
References: <mailman.980277285.14781.python-list@python.org> <3d3dea3vuh.fsf@ute.cnri.reston.va.us> <ul3ofwxij2t.fsf@smaug.fsl.noaa.gov>
Message-ID: <94rbll$prv$0@216.39.151.169>

Quoth Mike Romberg <romberg at smaug.fsl.noaa.gov>:
| >>>>> " " == Andrew Kuchling <akuchlin at mems-exchange.org> writes:
|
| [snip]
|
|      > Right now the only way to fiddle with setup.py is to edit it,
|      > and submit patches back.  I'm planning to have some
|      > command-line switches in the next alpha.
|
|
|   Is there some way to persuade setup.py to look for libraries and
| header files (used to build things like _tkinter) in places the
| compiler normally does not?  I found that the build_ext command will
| take -I and -L switches.  But the build command does not seem to like
| them.  For now, is just editing the lib_dirs and inc_dirs arguments to
| detect_tkinter() the way to do this?

I had a handful of things that needed to be modified in setup.py,
for BeOS, so just for to see if it could be done, I worked those
in from the configure script by way of setup.cfg.  setup.cfg now
might look like (for a typical UNIX platform)

   [install]
   install_platlib = /usr/local/lib/python2.1/lib-dynload

   [extensions]
   disable = crypt zlib

   [paths]
   systemlibs = /lib /usr/lib
   locallibs = /usr/local/lib
   systemincludes = /usr/include
   localincludes = /usr/local/include

   [libraries]
   math = -lm

setup.py needed to be modified to notice those options, and
of course setup.cfg.in and configure.  I would be happy to
send the stuff to interested parties - kind of an armload of
stuff with all the affected files, though not much actually
new code.  The only hard part was figuring out (I'm new to
distutils) that I could get a dict of the section options
with self.distribution.get_option_dict(section).

	Donn Cave, donn at oz.net


From cnc at ms6.hinet.net  Sat Jan 13 20:17:23 2001
From: cnc at ms6.hinet.net (cnc)
Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 09:17:23 +0800
Subject: The range of integer in Python???
Message-ID: <MPG.14cb7efde6c4f9eb989680@news.ntu.edu.tw>

Dear All:

What is the range of integer numerical type in Python? I read some
introduction book of Python, they say it ranges from (-maxint, maxint).
However, I guess, it should be (-maxint-1, maxint).

regards, Chandler


From tdelaney at avaya.com  Wed Jan 10 23:35:11 2001
From: tdelaney at avaya.com (Delaney, Timothy)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 15:35:11 +1100
Subject: boolean xor
Message-ID: <B43D149A9AB2D411971300B0D03D7E8B0FBD8B@natasha.auslabs.avaya.com>

This can be done even better ...

def xor (a, b):
	return (not a)!= (not b)

getting rid of one negation ;)

Tim Delaney
Avaya Australia
+61 2 9352 9079

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Delaney, Timothy [mailto:tdelaney at avaya.com]
> Sent: Thursday, 11 January 2001 1:57 PM
> To: 'ndev42 at yahoo.com'; python-list at python.org
> Subject: RE: boolean xor
> 
> 
> Nope ... we're wanting a *logical* xor ...
> 
> def xor_wrong(a,b):
> 	return not(a==b)
> 
> def xor_right(a,b):
> 	return not((not a) == (not b))
> 
> print xor_wrong(0,1)
> print xor_wrong(1,1)
> print xor_wrong(2,1)
> 
> print xor_right(0,1)
> print xor_right(1,1)
> print xor_right(2,1)
> 
> Tim Delaney
> Avaya Australia
> +61 2 9352 9079
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: ndev42 at yahoo.com [mailto:ndev42 at yahoo.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, 11 January 2001 4:56 AM
> > To: python-list at python.org
> > Subject: Re: boolean xor
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > > I need a boolean (not bit-wise) xor function.  I've got the 
> > following
> > > function, but my logic skills are rusty enough that I'm 
> wondering if
> > > this is the "right" way to do it (I've validated that it 
> > produces the
> > > correct outputs, at least):
> > >
> > > def xor(a,b):
> > >     return not ( (a and b) or (not (a or b)) )
> > 
> > A boolean xor is a detector of differences. Knowing that, you can
> > simply write:
> > 
> > def xor(a,b):
> > 	return not(a==b)
> > 
> > Hope it helps,
> > --
> > Nicolas
> > 
> > 
> > Sent via Deja.com
> > http://www.deja.com/
> > -- 
> > http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> > 
> 
> -- 
> http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 



From kbryd at losthighway._nospam_eu.org  Tue Jan 30 08:45:39 2001
From: kbryd at losthighway._nospam_eu.org (Karol Bryd)
Date: 30 Jan 2001 14:45:39 +0100
Subject: slow joinings of strings
References: <87ofwpnrpp.fsf@losthighway.ahoj.pl> <3A76B5F4.A0D1E117@schlund.de> <87k87dnr77.fsf@losthighway.ahoj.pl> <mailman.980860656.21229.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87g0i1nofw.fsf@losthighway.ahoj.pl>

Thomas Wouters <thomas at xs4all.net> writes:

> Have you considered using the rfc822 module, or one of the MIME-parsing
> packages ? There's 'mimetools' in the standard library, there's mimectl as a
> separate module (http://starship.python.net/~arcege/modules/) and Barry
> Warsaw started work on something he has given the rather uninspiring name
> 'mimelib': http://barry.wooz.org/software/pyware.html

Thank you all for answers, now it runs like a flash :-)

Regards.
-- 
       ------------------- Karol Bryd ------------------
   ---------------- http://int.gnu.org.pl ------------------


From Browne at t-online.de  Sat Jan 27 08:55:05 2001
From: Browne at t-online.de (Edward D. Browne)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 14:55:05 +0100
Subject: Can't configure gnome-python, imlib fails with 'no --libs'
Message-ID: <94ujvo$7pp$00$1@news.t-online.com>

Hi,
	I can't compile gnome-python-1.0.53 on either my SuSE7.0
or Redhat7.0 systems, both failing with the same error, namely:

 bison# ./configure
loading cache ./config.cache
checking for a BSD compatible install... (cached) /usr/bin/ginstall -c
checking whether build environment is sane... yes
checking for gawk... (cached) gawk
checking whether make sets ${MAKE}... (cached) yes
checking how to run the C preprocessor... (cached) cc -E
...
checking for python... /usr/local/bin/python
checking local Python configuration... looks good
checking for headers required to compile python extensions... found
checking for gtk-config... /usr/local/bin/gtk-config
checking for GTK - version >= 1.2.6... yes
checking for imlib-config... /usr/local/bin/imlib-config
checking for IMLIB - version >= 1.8.2... no
*** Could not run IMLIB test program, checking why...
*** The test program failed to compile or link. See the file config.log for the
*** exact error that occured. This usually means IMLIB was incorrectly installed
*** or that you have moved IMLIB since it was installed. In the latter case, you
*** may want to edit the imlib-config script: /usr/local/bin/imlib-config
checking for gnome-config... no
checking for gnomeConf.sh file in /usr/local/lib... not found
configure: error: Could not find the gnomeConf.sh file that is generated by gnome-libs install
bison# 

ALTHOUGH I *DO* HAVE A (MORE OR LESS) WORKING imlib-config INSTALLED:

bison% /usr/local/bin/imlib-config --version
1.9.8
bison% 

BUT WHEN "CONFIGURE" CALLSE IT, IT FAILS AT THE LINE WHERE THE COMMAND `no --libs`
(C0MPLETE WITH BACKTICKS) IS EMBEDDED IN THE SCRIPT:

bison% /usr/local/bin/imlib-config --libs-gdk
/usr/local/bin/imlib-config: no: command not found
-L/usr/local/lib -lgdk_imlib -ljpeg -ltiff -lungif -lpng -lz -lm
bison% 

This is obviously because it is trying to execute what's between the
backticks, namely `no --libs`, but "no" is not a command (that I know
of).  Is this what is desired?  How the heck do I get this thing to
"configure" properly?


TIA - Any and all suggestions welcome - Ed


-----------------------------------------------------------------------

email addresses: eddie at bnro.de    or Browne at t-online.de



From cerutti at together.net  Fri Jan 26 08:35:51 2001
From: cerutti at together.net (Neil Cerutti)
Date: 26 Jan 2001 13:35:51 GMT
Subject: Tkinter vs wxPython: your opinions?
References: <3A6F899F.E164F628@home.com> <hvZb6.2156$_8.33280@news1.rdc1.bc.home.com> <slrn9710o1.73.cerutti@fiad06.norwich.edu> <3A3AF7F970D390FB.9516A3492818FA7E.F86BC486C21F50E6@lp.airnews.net>
Message-ID: <slrn972vmq.77.cerutti@fiad06.norwich.edu>

Cameron Laird posted:
>In article <slrn9710o1.73.cerutti at fiad06.norwich.edu>,
>Neil Cerutti <cerutti at together.net> wrote:
>>Tkinter's 'pack' layout manager is super easy to use, and with
>>some practice and the excellent documentation, powerful.
>>wxPython seems to have a couple of layout managers, but how
>>they should be used is a mystery. I've been forced to place
>>everything pixel by pixel so far.
>
>It's very typical that Tkinter people who try moving to other
>toolkits blanch and retch at the "placing" they have to do.
>Tkinter layout management is addictive.

One thing I left out is comparison of available IDE building
editors, which could easily make this a moot point. I love the
conceptual space created in Tkinter between creating a widget and
telling it where and how to appear on the screen. A lot of the
wxPython widgets must appear at the time of creation.

>>wxPython has access to more standard interface dialogs, though
>>Tkinter has a fair number, too. The wxPython GUI code is going
>>to be quite a bit shorter. It would probably lengthen if I
>>started using a layout manager.
>
>This paragraph lost me.  Are you saying your Tkinter source is
>longer because you have to construct for yourself dialogues
>which are standard in wxPython?  Are you further saying that
>using a layout manager in wxPython is *more* verbose than pixel
>placement in wxPython?

Actually, yes. Pixel placement is so crude, it takes up hardly
any space. And you don't need to provide nearly as many options
to wxPython objects as you do a Tkinter widget. For example, the
wxPython ListBox is much more concise than the Tkinter Listbox,
especially if a you need a scroll bar. At the risk of further
revealing myself to be a total tyro, here's list box code for you
to compare from my sample programs.

Tkinter:

(Keep in mind, there is no way on earth I could have figured out
how to add a scroll bar if not for the pythonware docs.)

    sb = Scrollbar(self.upperFrame)
    self.newsServerListbox = Listbox(self.upperFrame, 
      height=3,
      yscrollcommand=sb.set,
      bg="SystemWindow")
    for server in self.servers:
      self.newsServerListbox.insert(END, server)
    self.newsServerListbox.select_set(0)
    self.newsServerListbox.pack(side=LEFT)
    sb.pack(side=LEFT, fill=Y)
    sb.config(command=self.newsServerListbox.yview)
    self.newsServerListbox.bind ("<Button-3>", self.popUp)

I had to set bg to make the list box look normal for a Windows
app, and that using the scrollbar was baroque. The pack layout
manager requires lots of extra frame object for the best
performance.

The same list box in wxPython:

    self.newsServerListBox = wxListBox(panel, -1, 
      wxPoint(5, 15), wxSize(140, 54),
      [], wxLB_SINGLE)
    for server in self.servers:
      self.newsServerListBox.Append(server)
    self.newsServerListBox.SetSelection(0, true)
    EVT_RIGHT_DOWN(self.newsServerListBox, self.popUp)

Here, it looks good out of the gate, and includes a vertical
scroll bar by default if the listbox is too big. The Tkinter
widget scroll bar appears, even when it doesn't need to be there
though that can probably be fixed.

I forgot to mention the ID members of wxPython objects, which are
unintuitive when it seems so simple to use actual objects in
function calls instead. I can see how secret ID nos could
save stack space and pointer passing in a C++ program.

-- 
Neil Cerutti <cerutti at together.net>
"If you're gonna score 125 points in a game, you've only got to
play good enough defense to hold the other team to 124. How
the hell hard is that?" -- Red Auerbach


From oblomov at freemail.it  Sun Jan 21 17:24:38 2001
From: oblomov at freemail.it (Giuseppe Bilotta)
Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 22:24:38 GMT
Subject: Literate programming in Python
References: <MIo96.76568$eB2.6160368@news.infostrada.it> <slrn96ckqk.178.amk@207-172-111-159.s159.tnt1.ann.va.dialup.rcn.com>
Message-ID: <GkJa6.106834$eB2.8073054@news.infostrada.it>

A.M. Kuchling <amk at mira.erols.com> wrote
> On Wed, 17 Jan 2001 22:07:40 GMT, Giuseppe Bilotta <oblomov at freemail.it> wrote:
> >I'd like to know if there exist a "literate programming" language for
> >Python (possibly using the same structure/conventions of WEB/CWEB,
> >the first literate programming languages, developed by D.E.Knuth and
> >Silvio Levy, resp. for Pascal and C/C++).
>
> There's Interscript by Max Skaller, at interscript.sourceforge.net;
> the Web site doesn't seem to have any examples, so I don't know if its
> syntax is CWEBish.

I grabbed it, but I won't be able to use it under Windows --interscript.frames.platform only hase POSIX/UNIX definitions ... oh
well.

>
> Also, do a Google search for py2tex, a program that typesets Python
> code very nicely and allows putting TeX commands into comments.  This
> means there's no tangle phase (source->compilable/executable code),
> and the document produced by typesetting it will be in the same order
> as the Python code.  Personally I like this; when I tried CWEB, it was
> too difficult to keep both two different orderings -- the expository
> order for human readers, and the source file order so that the tangled
> file would actually compile.

Well, you can keep just the expository order, and leave tangle put the code in the correct order ... just put the appropriate <@
...> commands in the correct order in the "top level" part of the code (TeX's source --written in WEB, but CWEB is based on WEB-- is
probably the best example on how to write a program in (C)WEB).

> (Hmm... py2tex hasn't been maintained for a while.  I'm greatly
> tempted to take it over...)

If it's orphaned, please do.

--
Giuseppe Bilotta







From sheila at thinkspot.net  Sat Jan 20 11:21:08 2001
From: sheila at thinkspot.net (Sheila King)
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 16:21:08 GMT
Subject: Translating a Perl script into Python
References: <vo9i6t04nhurgv2avmgoss4mg86ofcuhtv@4ax.com> <94c2as0nei@news2.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <heej6tcb6cukmqkcc319lasc6qiu4hqcv7@4ax.com>

On Sat, 20 Jan 2001 14:01:11 +0100, "Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote
in comp.lang.python in article <94c2as0nei at news2.newsguy.com>:

:"Sheila King" <sheila at thinkspot.net> wrote in message
:news:vo9i6t04nhurgv2avmgoss4mg86ofcuhtv at 4ax.com...
:    [snip]
:> qmail = ["SENDER", "NEWSENDER", "RECIPIENT", "USER", "HOME", "HOST",
:"LOCAL",
:>     "EXT", "EXT2", "EXT3", "EXT4", "DTLINE", "RPLINE", "UFLINE"]
:
:Excellent, but perhaps closer to the original Perl might be
:
:qmail = 'SENDER NEWSENDER RECIPIENT USER HOME HOST LOCAL EXT EXT2 EXT3 \
:    EXT4 DTLINE RPLINE UFLINE'.split()

Someone else sent me a similar suggestion in e-mail. Where is this documented?
Believe me, I have been going over the docs THOROUGHLY and often! Is this a
Python 2.0 feature? Or does it go back further? (I am using 2.0 right now,
however, my web host only has 1.5.1 installed for everyone's use. I want to
write a script, hopefully, that will run for everyone on the server.)

:> try:
:> PROC = open("proc.test","w")
:> except:
:> sys.stderr << "Couldn't open file for write\n"
:> raise
:
:Perhaps better:
:
:try: PROC = open('proc.test', 'w')
:except: sys.exit(
:    "Couldn't open file for write: %s" %
:    traceback.format_exception_only(
:    *sys.exc_info()[:2]))
:
:or the "couldn't open" message could be lost in
:the traceback; I don't think that message is all
:that informative, so I'd just code
:    PROC = open('proc.test', 'w')
:and let normal exception processing tell me if
:and why it couldn't open the file -- but if it IS
:important to restate this fact, then the traceback
:may then be undesirable.  Debatable, I guess.

So, it is not usual in Python to put some sort of "just in case" piece of code
when opening files? Because I understand that it is very common in Perl.
Perhaps Perl doesn't handle it the same without the "die" statement? I'll tell
you, the exception handling part of this code is the most confusing to me.
There are very few examples in the standard Python docs, and everyone who is
making suggestions, suggests something different.

:_excellent_ code, simple and effective; my comments
:above are all about very marginal issues, because I
:could not find anything substantial to criticize!-)

Thanks,

--
Sheila King
http://www.thinkspot.net/sheila/
http://www.k12groups.org/




From cjensen at bioeng.ucsd.edu  Wed Jan  3 17:13:51 2001
From: cjensen at bioeng.ucsd.edu (Curtis Jensen)
Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 14:13:51 -0800
Subject: Name Error
References: <3A5395B5.EBE77FA4@bioeng.ucsd.edu> <Y3N46.3526$Qb7.440895@newsb.telia.net>
Message-ID: <3A53A41F.35DD7765@bioeng.ucsd.edu>

Fredrik Lundh wrote:
> 
> Curtis Jensen wrote:
> > Below is a bit from my Python interpreter.  The "stored_data" variable
> > is a global list.  It should be seen from within the "send_data"
> > function.  However, I get a NameError here.  I ran it with pdb; pdb is
> > able to output the "stored_data" variable from within the "send_data"
> > function.  However, it still gives a NameError.
> >
> > "stored_data" works in all of my other functions except this one?  Any
> > ideas?
> 
> Python 1.5.2?  do you by any chance assign to "stored_data" in
> that function?
> 
> (if you can, please post the source for send_data...)
> 
> cheers /F

Oh, I see the problem.  I do assign to stored_data.  It works if I
comment out the last line.  I didn't think that would cause
"stored_data" to change scopes.  

Would Python 2.0 not have this problem?
 

def send_data():
  print stored_data[0]
  # open connection to server if not connected
  if not connected[0]:
    connect()
    connected[0] = TRUE

  for item in stored_data:
    # Convert to XML
    xml_data = XML_Pickler( item ).dumps()
    client.send( 'load' )
    # send server the data
    client.send( xml_data )        
    status = client.recv()
    if not int( status ):    # get recieved status
      print 'ERROR: %s not recieved' % item.__class__.__name__
  #end for item in stored_data

  #clear stored_data
  stored_data = []
#end def send_data


-- 
Curtis Jensen
cjensen at bioeng.ucsd.edu
http://www-bioeng.ucsd.edu/~cjensen/
FAX (425) 740-1451


From dsh8290 at rit.edu  Wed Jan 31 12:49:10 2001
From: dsh8290 at rit.edu (D-Man)
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 12:49:10 -0500
Subject: c(++)python?
In-Reply-To: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCEEJNILAA.tim.one@home.com>; from tim.one@home.com on Sat, Jan 27, 2001 at 02:20:54AM -0500
References: <3A71EB9C.D258C1C0@comm.mot.com> <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCEEJNILAA.tim.one@home.com>
Message-ID: <20010131124910.B26971@harmony.cs.rit.edu>

On Sat, Jan 27, 2001 at 02:20:54AM -0500, Tim Peters wrote:
[snip]
| Given the number of odd platforms Python is ported to, C++ would still be a
| major gamble.  If history repeats, around 2010 we'll insist that people
| finally use a 1999-flavor ANSI C compiler (although there's some doubt that
| vendors will actually implement all of C99).
| 

What is the difference between C89 and C99?  ( a URL or a quick
overview is sufficient )

Thanks,
-D




From BgPorter at NOartlogicSPAM.com  Wed Jan 24 14:26:07 2001
From: BgPorter at NOartlogicSPAM.com (Brett g Porter)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 19:26:07 GMT
Subject: PSU uses emacs?
References: <948e4b$hm0$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <948fvj$oq1$1@panix6.panix.com> <3A67CDC3.7EACB07D@Lugoj.Com> <9490t009on@news2.newsguy.com> <3a685ef2.3403798@reading.news.pipex.net> <949rii0a76@news1.newsguy.com> <3a6eb2fa.2347467@reading.news.pipex.net> <94mtc702d2h@news2.newsguy.com> <3a6f1114.10352226@reading.news.pipex.net>
Message-ID: <j%Fb6.172655$w35.30687789@news1.rdc1.nj.home.com>

"Ray Drew" <ray_drew at yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:3a6f1114.10352226 at reading.news.pipex.net...
> On Wed, 24 Jan 2001 16:46:16 +0100, "Alex Martelli"
> <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Thanks to Alex and Roland for your tips; much appreciated.
>
> Is there a good book on vi?
>
> Does anyone have an opinion on O'reilly's 'Learning the vi Editor'?
I decided to finally learn vi a month or two ago, after an excruciatingly
bad experience with it at a job a few years back. All programmers were
_required_ to use vi. Period. That was enough to put me in a foul anti-vi
mood for several years. I made my current employers guarantee me that they
would never dictate my choice of editor before I agreed to take the gig.

However, after putting a Linux box in my office, lack of proficiency with
either vi or emacs was a serious problem for me. I decided that I would be
able to become productive in vi more quickly, so I picked up the O'Reilly
book. The book's value from my point of view was that many things that
seemed bizarre and arbitrary on my first exposure to vi turned out to be
fairly sensible. Other things I confirmed as bizarre and arbitrary. I'm
still increasing my comfort level and reaching for references or the
internal help system much less frequently, now. I wish that it was also a
full reference as well, but I've got the built-in help and all of the docs
that are available on vim.org when I need them.

Recompiling vim with Python support was also nice.


--
// Brett g Porter * Senior Engineer, Application Development
// BgPorter @ artlogic . com * http://www.artlogic.com
// Art & Logic * Custom software solutions for hardware products
// Windows * MacOS * Embedded Systems





From sekter at matavnet.hu  Fri Jan 12 08:34:55 2001
From: sekter at matavnet.hu (Arpad Kiss)
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 14:34:55 +0100
Subject: Using Python COM objects from C++
References: <ixe76.2667$k25.38410@news1.oke.nextra.no>
Message-ID: <93n0vm$i20$1@athena.euroweb.hu>

Syver Enstad <syver at NOSPAMcyberwatcher.com> wrote in message
news:ixe76.2667$k25.38410 at news1.oke.nextra.no...
> I don't know if this has been answered before here but..
>
> I know how to call the python COM object using "pure" IDispatch, but is it
> possible to make a type library and ensure that the Python class
> implementing the COM complies with it?
>
> The problem would be the dispatch id's as far as I can see. I don't know
how
> to specify the dispatch id's that the method's in the python object should
> have.
It depends on the used policy. I got a tlb generator script(may be I found
it on the mailing list of the starship crew?) and I made some modification
on it and it worked with DesignatedWrapPolicy. But I don't found it at the
moment. My aim was to catch events generated by Python COM object in Visal
Basic, but it didn't work for me, although otherwise I could use this
generated tlb in VB.
Arpad Kiss





From mal at lemburg.com  Thu Jan 25 06:09:37 2001
From: mal at lemburg.com (M.-A. Lemburg)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 12:09:37 +0100
Subject: Relational Databases and Python
References: <mailman.979589896.32678.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3A700971.C4C6BE17@lemburg.com>

glinds - Greg Lindstrom wrote:
> 
> Greetings-
> 
> I am wanting to access a relational database via Python.  Knowing that a
> "simple" query such as "Why no "do until" statement" can generate replies
> for months, I offer the following:
> 
> *       What relational database to use?  I am constructing a routine to
> track incident reports for the volunteer fire department I run with.  I also
> want to track personnel information, training records, equipment, etc.  It
> will be a small to medium database (the databases I work with professionally
> run in the terabytes, but we spend millions on software).  I am looking at
> MySQL.  Whatever base I use must be free.

You can also try DBMaker which is free on Linux platforms.

> *       How to access the database?  I would like to use SQL via ODBC.  I
> have attempted to install the mxODBC module, but have run into trouble with
> the first step (get and install mxDateTime).  That's not a good sign. 

What troubles did you have ?

> I
> would like a simple communication to the  database (else I will write a "C"
> routine to do it for me!).  What's out there?

There are several database specific modules out there. Just check
the Vaults of Parnassus for a list (http://www.vex.net/parnassus/).

> *       With an eye to the future, I would like to write a Web-based system
> so that I can offer this system to other volunteer departments in the
> county.  We simply cannot afford $2500+ for reporting software (that will
> fully outfit 2 firefighters including SCBA (breathing equipment) and PASS (a
> safety device)).  Though I have talked with a couple of companies offering a
> "volunteer rate", we simply cannot afford to spend that kind of money on
> software.  How do I get started writing web apps?  I have good friends at
> work telling me that Perl is the way to go; I program both, but am partial
> to Python.

Check out the web topic guide on www.python.org. There are quite
a few different systems out there...

-- 
Marc-Andre Lemburg
______________________________________________________________________
Company:                                        http://www.egenix.com/
Consulting:                                    http://www.lemburg.com/
Python Pages:                           http://www.lemburg.com/python/



From emile at fenx.com  Fri Jan 26 23:14:18 2001
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 20:14:18 -0800
Subject: SourceForge problems
References: <mailman.980510689.2616.python-list@python.org> <lmlc6.774$27.199390@ruti.visi.com> <mailman.980545112.10091.python-list@python.org> <94srdj$edtl1$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de> <mailman.980555671.22637.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <94ti0v$etolg$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>

"Thomas Wouters" <thomas at xs4all.net> wrote in message
news:mailman.980555671.22637.python-list at python.org...
> On Fri, Jan 26, 2001 at 01:48:28PM -0800, Emile van
Sebille wrote:
>
> > ... or the lekker dutch... eh.. spitskop?  ;-)
>
> Nono, if there is a national Dutch pride, it should be
liquorice :) I'm not

Yes, very.  I sometimes get a package at Christmas filled
with liquorice!  Here, I do some work for an American
licorice company, and it's little more than sweet candy.
But, it's not for me to bite the hand...

--

Emile van Sebille
emile at fenx.com
-------------------

>




From moshez at zadka.site.co.il  Sat Jan 13 04:48:02 2001
From: moshez at zadka.site.co.il (Moshe Zadka)
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 11:48:02 +0200 (IST)
Subject: NewBie: How Can I Scan The Keyboard In Python?
In-Reply-To: <93n1tg$a6v$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
References: <93n1tg$a6v$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, <93ku2c$gtr$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <epn76.5525$Qb7.771036@newsb.telia.net>
Message-ID: <20010113094802.04486A828@darjeeling.zadka.site.co.il>

On Fri, 12 Jan 2001 13:47:30 GMT, jbranthoover at my-deja.com wrote:
> Hello Fredrik,
> 	Thank you for your response.  I guess that neglected to mention
> that I am running Python 1.5.2 on a Lynx (not linux) box.  I suppose
> that the msvcrt module makes use of windows API calls and must run on a
> windows based system?
> 
> 	Anyway thanks for the information.  If you have any other
> Ideas,  please pass them along.  Have a great day...!

While I'm not Fredrik, I may be able to help you too: read the
docos for the termios module. It might be of some help.

-- 
Moshe Zadka <sig at zadka.site.co.il>
This is a signature anti-virus. 
Please stop the spread of signature viruses!



From jdries at mail.com  Mon Jan  1 20:15:21 2001
From: jdries at mail.com (Jan Dries)
Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2001 02:15:21 +0100
Subject: Simulating WWW button press
References: <Xns901CE2154Latzikatz@139.174.2.56>
Message-ID: <3A512BA9.CFC2144@mail.com>

Lutz Schroeer wrote:
> I try to write a program which explores a WWW-site. Unfortunately not all
> links on this site are done by a standard "<a href=""></a>" construct but
> with a button:
> [...]
> <INPUT NAME="zipallpage" TYPE="submit" VALUE="Get all files">
> [...]
> How do I get my Python program to simulate the button being pressed to
> retrieve the data which hides behind the button?

What's important is not the <INPUT> tag, but the <FORM> tag, because it
tells you what happens when the button is pressed.
For example:

<FORM METHOD="get"
ACTION="http://www.somehost.com/somepath/somepage.html">
<INPUT type="text" name="field_1">
<INPUT type="radio" checked name="choice_1" value="0">
<INPUT type="radio" name="choice_1" value="1">
<INPUT NAME="zipallpage" TYPE="submit" VALUE="Get all files">
</FORM>

Suppose you enter "Some input" into the text edit field with name
"field_1", then the browser will, when you click on the "Get all
files"-button, do a GET to the server, in pretty much the same way as it
would in the case of a link. In fact, pressing the button would be
equivalent to clicking on the following link:

<a
href="http://www.somehost.com/somepath/somepage.html?field_1=Some+input&choice_1=0">Get
all files</a>

In other words, the values of the input fields are appended to the URL,
following a '?'. Some escaping is necessary (note the '+' instead of the
' ' in 'Some input'). The funtion quote_plus() in the library urllib can
be used to take care of this.
If METHOD in the FORM element has a value of "post" instead of "get",
things are a bit different. In that case the string
"field_1=Some+input&choice_1=0" is not appended to the URL, but instead
it is sent to the server as data of a post operation. 
It's not clear from your posting what exactly you want to do, nor how
you are trying to do it, but in any case, if you want to simulate the
behaviour of what a browser does when a user clicks on a link or on a
submit button, the above info plus the docs for urllib and httplib
should get you through it.

If you state more clearly what exactly you're trying to do, I could
perhaps be more specific as to how you can do it. 

Hope this answers your question,
Jan



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Jan 12 08:43:45 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 14:43:45 +0100
Subject: Running cgi-scripts on my home Apache server
References: <j92o5t4gde98rlaca47mdglnsdc7uruo3c@4ax.com> <93he3h012p4@news2.newsguy.com> <newscache$gtv17g$1c6$1@www.dzsh.de>
Message-ID: <93n1pd0vlk@news1.newsguy.com>

"Ruediger" <ruediger.maehl at web.de> wrote in message
news:newscache$gtv17g$1c6$1 at www.dzsh.de...
    [snip]
> >This is what Xitami wants, for example (I don't have an
    [snip]
> Obviously, you are using Xitami as web server. Looks like this is a very
> small and effective web server
> (http://www.imatix.com/html/xitami/index.htm).

Yes, and yes.  I chose it as the simplest, runs-by-itself,
no-maintenance webserver so I could try out CGI scripts on
my home machine.


> # Question:
> Are you using CGI and/or LRWP in conjunction with Xitami?

CGI. LRWP is also interesting, and, not surprisingly, well
supported for Python in particular since Robin Dunn had a
hand in it; see http://alldunn.com/python/ for a link to it.

I haven't really done anything 'serious' with it, besides
confirming that, as per specs, it does let you easily develop
Python scripts that can run both under it, and under plain
CGI; as I don't have a Xitami installation actually deployed
on the web, but rather use mine to develop CGI scripts to
be later deployed on other servers, I can't even really speak
with first-hand knowledge about performance issues related
to CGI vs LRWP vs FastCGI vs other approaches -- not enough
real-world experiences.


Alex





From janne at oops.nnets.fi  Wed Jan 24 18:21:39 2001
From: janne at oops.nnets.fi (Janne Sinkkonen)
Date: 25 Jan 2001 01:21:39 +0200
Subject: random.py gives wrong results (+ a solution)
Message-ID: <m3u26oy1rw.fsf@kinos.nnets.fi>

At least in Python 2.0 and earlier, the samples returned by the
function betavariate() of random.py are not from a beta distribution
although the function name misleadingly suggests so.

The following would give beta-distributed samples:

def betavariate(alpha, beta):
     y = gammavariate(alpha,1)
     if y==0: return 0.0
     else: return  y/(y+gammavariate(beta,1))

This is from matlab. A comment in the original matlab code refers to
Devroye, L. (1986) Non-Uniform Random Variate Generation, theorem 4.1A
(p. 430). Another reference would be Gelman, A. et al. (1995) Bayesian
data analysis, p. 481, which I have checked and found to agree with
the code above.

-- 
Janne


From quinn at dinar.ugcs.caltech.edu  Mon Jan 15 17:23:16 2001
From: quinn at dinar.ugcs.caltech.edu (Quinn Dunkan)
Date: 15 Jan 2001 22:23:16 GMT
Subject: pattern matching in python
References: <mailman.979578980.25014.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrn966u2k.mij.quinn@dinar.ugcs.caltech.edu>

On Mon, 15 Jan 2001 12:15:34 -0500, Mike Fletcher <mfletch at tpresence.com> wrote:
>horrors.  No, I'll stay here in my quaint little cell. Growing up in Canada

Well, there goes your chance to be the first *and* second dead hero of the
revolution.


From scarblac at pino.selwerd.nl  Tue Jan  2 10:15:01 2001
From: scarblac at pino.selwerd.nl (Remco Gerlich)
Date: 2 Jan 2001 15:15:01 GMT
Subject: using 'global' across source files.
References: <3A51CC63.A90A0E0B@sara.nl> <01s35tgmoirgtplgs46402vqpootc2oe7u@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <slrn953rth.pcr.scarblac@pino.selwerd.nl>

Daniel Klein <danielk at aracnet.com> wrote in comp.lang.python:
> One solution would be to remove the 'global' and pass 'val' as an
> argument, ie,
> 
> def change_val(val):
> 	return val * 2
> 
> 
> import funcs
> val = 100
> funcs.change_val(val)

You mean val = funcs.change_val(val).

I agree that this whole construction with shared globals probably needs some
better design.

-- 
Remco Gerlich


From pearu at cens.ioc.ee  Thu Jan 25 11:01:01 2001
From: pearu at cens.ioc.ee (Pearu Peterson)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 18:01:01 +0200
Subject: Hack request: rational numbers
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0101251759070.28148-100000@kev.ioc.ee>

Hi!

I am using rational numbers from the gmpy module and I find that creating
one in Python using

>>> mpq(3,4)

is rather clumsy. Clearly, minimal representation of this rational number
is

    3/4

but in Python this expression has different meaning.
So, I am looking for a "nicer" way to create gmpy rational numbers in
Python. Closest to the above representation I find

    3r/4

that uses similar syntax as in constructing Python complex numbers
(cf. 3j+4).

Note that I don't want to implement a new Python rational number type but
rather to use gmpy's mpq number type. So, I am looking for solution
where when using

>>> 3r

in Python (prompt or script),

>>> mpq(3)

is actually executed.

Since `3r' is very similar to `3j', I thought that it would be easy to
hack Python source to read `3r' as a NUMBER and then create
`mpq(3)'. Indeed, I found that one only needs to insert few lines to
the function `parsenumber' in the file Python/compile.c:
	...
	if (*end == 'l' || *end == 'L')
	        return PyLong_FromString(s, (char **)0, 0);
	if (*end == 'r' || *end == 'R') 
	        return (*end='\0', Pygmpy_mpq_FromString(s));
	...

But then the problem is that gmpy needs to be statically linked with
Python. This is not good for several reasons:
1) Also GMP library (not easily available for non-U*NX systems) needs to
be statically linked with python.
2) It is then impossible to use other rational number modules. For
example, it is easy to write one in pure Python.

To overcome this difficulty, I propose using settable rational number
constructor as follows:

>>> from gmpy import mpq
>>> __builtins__._construct_rational = mpq
>>> 3r/4
mpq(3,4)

and modifications in `parsenumber' function would be the following:
        ...
        if (*end == 'l' || *end == 'L')
                return PyLong_FromString(s, (char **)0, 0);
        if (*end == 'r' || *end == 'R') {
		PyObject* cb=NULL;
		cb = PyDict_GetItemString(PyEval_GetBuiltins(),
					"_construct_rational");
		if (cb!=NULL) {
			*end = '\0';   /* remove trailing `r' */
			return PyObject_CallFunction(cb,"s",s);
			}
		}
        ...
(sure, more checks are needed for `cb').

My questions to Python experts are:

1) Would this work? What else I should be aware of?

2) How bad is the idea of modifing __builtins__ module as above? Is this
too unPythonic? Other ideas?

3) What are changes that these hooks will be accepted to Python core? ---
that is, after more careful coding and providing default rational number
class implemented in pure Python.

4) Is anybody else working with builtin rational number support for
Python?


Pearu





From DanielK at jBASE.com  Wed Jan 17 17:21:54 2001
From: DanielK at jBASE.com (Daniel Klein)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 14:21:54 -0800
Subject: Multiple constructors (part 2)
Message-ID: <D%o96.645$KD3.265469@typhoon.aracnet.com>

OK, I've researched and read the posts (and the FAQ) on how to simulate
multiple constructors. Alex Martelli provided the most robust answer by
testing the number of *args and executing the appropriate section of code.
However in another post he says

"""
This 'overloads' the constructors based on how many arguments
are given -- how elegant (and how Pythonic...!) this is, being
of course *debatable*.  Overloading on *types* would be less
elegant *and* less Pythonic, though you could easily extend
this idea to do it -- I would discourage it even more strongly.
"""

However, what I need to do is _exactly_ what is being discouraged, that is
creating 3 constructors both with 2 arguments where the second argument of
each is a different type. The real kicker is that in one of the
constructors, I need to check the __class__ of the object to make sure the
method is receiving the proper object. I have no problem coding this if this
is the way it has to be but if there are more acceptable (and Pythonic) ways
to do this, I would appreciate some pointers.

experiencing-python-growing-pains-but-loving-it-ly yr's,
Daniel Klein




From claird at starbase.neosoft.com  Fri Jan  5 14:31:46 2001
From: claird at starbase.neosoft.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: 5 Jan 2001 13:31:46 -0600
Subject: How robust is Python ?
References: <9354f9$vbi$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <LOBBJMHOIFOLFIPFANHJAEJFCHAA.zope@TheWebsons.com> <mailman.978716227.31692.python-list@python.org> <mailman.978721929.3640.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <12FDE17E0FE881CA.A0D56446193FD374.16955A7253A18953@lp.airnews.net>

In article <mailman.978721929.3640.python-list at python.org>,
Moshe Zadka  <moshez at zadka.site.co.il> wrote:
			.
			.
			.
>T(x) >= T(y). Python is vey robust. However, personally I wouldn't
>trust *any* language for that. Have a every-minute cron which resurrects
>it if it isn't up? That means you're as stable as either Python or
			.
			.
			.
Why cron rather than init?

And, yes, I've had looooooooong-running Python
processes (although none now, as it happens).
I feel plenty good about it in that role, Russell.
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at NeoSoft.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://starbase.neosoft.com/~claird/home.html


From flvdberg at wxs.nl  Sun Jan 14 09:02:05 2001
From: flvdberg at wxs.nl (Floris van den Berg)
Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 15:02:05 +0100
Subject: [ANNOUNCE] FreeImage 2.0.0 out!
Message-ID: <93sbqv$l9gi$1@reader01.wxs.nl>

Hi there,

Via this post we want to announce the new version of FreeImage (2.0.0).
Attached below is the FreeImage FAQ, which will provide all the info you
need to use this poweful c++ library for Windows.

FreeImage can be downloaded from: http://home.wxs.nl/~flvdberg
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

01) WHAT IS FREEIMAGE
--------------------
FreeImage is an Open Source project, initiated by Floris van den Berg, for
developers who would like to support popular graphics image formats like
BMP, JPEG, TIFF and PCX and others as needed by today's multimedia
applications in their C++ applications for Windows.

Key points in the design of FreeImage are:
- Ease of use; FreeImage's functions are easy to learn.
- Fast; the FreeImage functions are as optimized as possible.
- Multithreading safe; FreeImage works both in single- and multithreaded
programs and works together with all kinds of additional libraries.
- Compatible with all 32-bit versions of Windows, including Windows 2000.

Formats supported:
BMP, ICO, JPEG/JIF, KOALA, Kodak PhotoCD, PCX, PNG, PNM, TARGA, TIFF and
WBMP

FreeImage is seperated into three groups of functions:
* Load functions (FI_LoadXXX); Loads a certain bitmap type into memory.
* Info functions; Retrieves information from a loaded bitmap. Possible
information includes image size, bit depth and palette information.
* Conversion functions; converts a bitmap to another bitdepth

02) WHO IS FREEIMAGE FOR?
-------------------------
FreeImage is designed for multimedia specialists (users of C++, Python or
Magenta II) working on Windows or Linux. FreeImage doesn't work on any other
platform than Windows or Linux at this moment. Support for other platforms
is considered.

FreeImage only compiles under Microsoft Visual C++ 6. If you want to use
FreeImage with any other compiler, you will have to download the sourcecode
and modify it so that it works with this new compiler. FreeImage ships with
project-files for MSVC6.

03) LICENSING FREEIMAGE
-----------------------
FreeImage is free to the public and ships with full source code. The source
is protected by law though. This means you have to agree to the license
agreement before you use FreeImage. You can find a copy of the license
agreement on http://home.wxs.nl/~flvdberg

04) BECOMING A DEVELOPMENT TEAM MEMBER
--------------------------------------
I am currently looking for experienced graphics programmers who can help to
further design and develop FreeImage. The idea is to create a dedicated team
of developers who want to spend some free time writing bitmap loaders for
new
graphic formats and enhance already working routines. Communication will go
using e-mail (freeimage at wxs.nl) and the web.

The following things need to be done design wise:
- look into a way to generate seperate targets for the same source, hence
merging the DLL and static library versions of FreeImage code-wise. - design
a system to modify FreeImage's internal image format, for easy porting.
- design a resource script loader, so that bitmaps can be easily appended
to a Windows EXE file

The following things need to be done development wise:
- add more graphic formats
- add more image effects (for the upcoming library FreeEffects)
- enhance existing image effects, particulary 16 bit alpha blending

If you can do one or more of the above things, or maybe something completely
different we didn't think about yet, you can be a valuable - and highly
appreciated - member of the FreeImage Development Team!

05) CONTACT
-----------
My e-mail address is: freeimage at wxs.nl






From ivnowa at hvision.nl  Fri Jan 26 10:39:57 2001
From: ivnowa at hvision.nl (Hans Nowak)
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 15:39:57 GMT
Subject: xor operator?
References: <20010126125141.18593.qmail@nw128.netaddress.usa.net> <mailman.980517875.10931.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3A719880.6621@hvision.nl>

Thomas Wouters wrote:

I goofed (again) and mistook some of your answers for Nicola
Musatti's... :(
Anyway, I'll repeat them here:

> Very few languages have a boolean xor operation. I don't know any off the
> top of my head, but if I'd have to make a guess, I'd say that INTERCAL was
> the only language I'm famialiar with, with a boolean XOR operation :)

Pascal does. I'm not sure about standard Pascal (if there is such a
thing), but Turbo Pascal did, and Delphi does today, too.

> The simple reason is 'it isn't shortcuttable'. That is, with 'and' and 'or',
> whether or not to evaluate the second argument is based on the outcome of
> the first. xor requires you to always evaluate both. 

I see the difference, but I don't understand why that is a problem,
though. 

> In the specific Python
> sense, the return value of the boolean xor operation would also be vague.

Simply 0 or 1 would be a possibility, but that is not what Python's
'and' and 'or' do. So maybe, if it evaluates to true, it returns the
'true' element; otherwise it returns 0 (like 'and' and 'or' do).

> (In Python 'a and b' returns a if a is false, or otherwise b. Similarly, 'a
> or b' returns a if a is true, otherwise b. That means you can do stuff like
> 'l = a or []'. What would 'a xor b' return ? A if a is true, but b is false,
> B if b is true, a is false, that much is 'obvious'. Then what? Return a, or
> b, if a and b are both false ? And what about if a and b are both true ?
> return (a,b) ? ;-P)

I think it should return 0, since the expression as a whole evaluates to
false.

> What construction do you need the boolean xor operation for ? Isn't it more
> obvious to use an if/elif/else contstruction ?

Can't speak for him, but I always wondered why the xor was missing, too.
It simply belongs there next to the and/&, or/| pairs. :)

--Hans Nowak
--Info Vision Europe BV


From sholden at holdenweb.com  Thu Jan 11 07:48:12 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 07:48:12 -0500
Subject: Reading Microsoft Outlook Express .dbx files
References: <mailman.979199831.22069.python-list@python.org> <93k0kd$9rf$1@panix2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <TZh76.10303$X3.66025@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>

"Aahz Maruch" <aahz at panix.com> wrote in message
news:93k0kd$9rf$1 at panix2.panix.com...
> In article <mailman.979199831.22069.python-list at python.org>,
> Tim Peters <tim.one at home.com> wrote:
> >
> >Have found that of only marginal use, and only then for plain-text msgs.
> >Still the case that, to the best of my knowledge, while recent Outlooks
deal
> >with msgs in std Internet format fine, it's not possible to get them back
in
> >that format from Outlook (as the original questioner wanted).
>
> IIRC correctly, it's not possible from Outlook, but it *is* possible
> from Exchange Server.  If you set up Exchange as a POP3 server and move
> the messages to a folder that you can access, any POP3 client can now
> get the raw messages (*don't* ask me for the details, it's been two
> years and a job ago).

Which leaves me, as an (ex-)Outlook user who used it mostly for Internet
mail, with the same old "no support is available". Sheesh, you'd think some
comanies were planning world domination the way they ignore old-established
standards like RFC822.

not-to-mention-RFC823-for-long-enough-ly y'rs  - steve




From loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de  Mon Jan 15 18:29:36 2001
From: loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de (Martin von Loewis)
Date: 16 Jan 2001 00:29:36 +0100
Subject: Parameterized Types
References: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0101151010020.7702-100000@z.glue.umd.edu>
Message-ID: <p6qy9wcqtr3.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Roy Katz <katz at Glue.umd.edu> writes:

> I came across http://www.python.org/~guido/static-typing/  the other day.
> Some things that struck me as odd:
> 
> -  parameterized types: 
>    
>    class foo<TYPE>:  pass
>    def func<TYPE>: pass
> 
>    Why is this necessary?  I think the point of parameterized types is
>    to tell the Python compiler that we are only going to use TYPE and
>    TYPE.  Is this correct?

Yes.

However, you may want to use foo or func with a number of different
types. Each usage effectively gives you a different definition of foo
or func; for each specific usage, you can still tell what type TYPE
refers to.

> Which begs the question:   is it possible to write an analyzing
> tracer which traces the types of objects and generates efficient code?
> for example -- the gcd() function:
> 
>    def gcd(a,b): 
>       if a>b: return a
>       return b
> 
> Now, if in my program all I pass to gcd() are int's, the tracer would 
> recognize this. 

One strategy is to automatically specialize gcd for ints, and use this
specialization every time gcd is called with ints; it would use a
different specialization if somebody passes different arguments.

>    The slides expressed inlining and explicit forms of declarations; 
>    is it possible to come to a concensus before TMTOWTDI? 

Static typing is not appearing tomorrow; there's plenty of time to
settle a syntax (although probably not by means of consensus ...).

Regards,
Martin


From mwh21 at cam.ac.uk  Thu Jan 25 03:03:49 2001
From: mwh21 at cam.ac.uk (Michael Hudson)
Date: 25 Jan 2001 08:03:49 +0000
Subject: __set_attr__
References: <t6v3s5fv3t7f3e@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <m3bsswys62.fsf@atrus.jesus.cam.ac.uk>

"Amritansh Raghav" <amritansh at mobilian.com> writes:

> (Newbie alert - its been less than a week)

In which case, maybe you should leave __setattr__ alone for a while.

> Under what circumstances does __set_attr__ get callled? I thought it
> was only if the name wasnt found in the dictionary.

That's __getattr__.

> However I can see my
> function being called even when the name is present. (I print out
> self.__dict__ and also do a self.__dict__.has_key(name) just to make sure
> there isnt a spelling error).
> This is happening within my constructor so I wonder if I need to do
> something special here

You need to do things like

class C:
    def __init__(self):
        self.__dict__['spam'] = 'eggs'
    def __setattr__(self, attr, value):
        if attr != 'spam':
           print "it's not spam!"
        self.__dict__[attr] = value

Cheers,
M.

-- 
  Strangely enough  I saw just such a beast at  the grocery store
  last night. Starbucks sells Javachip. (It's ice cream, but that 
  shouldn't be an obstacle for the Java marketing people.)
                                         -- Jeremy Hylton, 29 Apr 1997


From warrickb at my-deja.com  Mon Jan 29 11:03:57 2001
From: warrickb at my-deja.com (warrickb at my-deja.com)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 16:03:57 GMT
Subject: Wrapping up a C++ class
Message-ID: <954496$ues$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

Hi,

Could anyone provide me with a simple example of wrapping a simple C++
class for use in Python (I seem to be unable to find one - I must be
missing something) - including the details of the creation and
destruction of the actual C++ instance?  An extra example of dealing
with virtual methods would also be a bonus!

Thanks in advance,

Warrick.


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From barry at digicool.com  Wed Jan 24 14:18:49 2001
From: barry at digicool.com (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 14:18:49 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Module] mimelib-0.1
Message-ID: <mailman.980460428.13370.clpa-moderators@python.org>

                              mimelib-0.1                               
                              -----------                               

Yet another MIME handling library for Python

This is yet another package for handling, parsing, and generating MIME
messages in Python. It differs from other such packages by splitting the
object model from the plain text parser and generator. Thus it is easier
to modify the object model, create one from scratch, etc. and then
generate the plain text when ready. Alternative parsers and generators
can, of course, be created.

Version 0.1 is very experimental. The mimelib package will be used in
the GNU Mailman project for all MIME and message handling. This version
is a snapshot of the current code base being developed for Mailman 2.1.

       URL:  http://barry.wooz.org/software/pyware.html
  Download:  http://barry.wooz.org/software/Code/mimelib.tgz

   License:  Python Style

  Categories:  Internet, E-mail

Barry Warsaw (barry at digicool.com)
http://barry.wooz.org

--
<a href="http://barry.wooz.org/software/pyware.html">mimelib-0.1</a> --
Yet another MIME handling library for Python



-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-announce-list



From LCKJAM003 at mail.uct.ac.za  Thu Jan 18 17:24:57 2001
From: LCKJAM003 at mail.uct.ac.za (James)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 00:24:57 +0200
Subject: Using python to call .bat files-- possible??
Message-ID: <3A676D38.5D972E12@mail.uct.ac.za>

hi all

am hoping to use a python script to control a process that at the moment
is run by a set of 10 windows batch files.

was hoping i could write a script that would automate my process and let
me iterate it until the result was with tolerance...

is it possible to call other external programs from python?

thanks ( in advance, hopefully)
james



From sdm7g at virginia.edu  Tue Jan 30 17:37:04 2001
From: sdm7g at virginia.edu (Steven D. Majewski)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 17:37:04 -0500 (EST)
Subject: lvalues [was: curly-brace-aphobic?]
In-Reply-To: <GZBd6.136938$ge4.49415183@news2.rdc2.tx.home.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.NXT.4.21.0101301732050.817-100000@localhost.virginia.edu>

I used to do that in VAX C all the time 
(i.e. functions returning lvalues):

  a = pop();
  b = pop();
  push() = a + b ;

Then I think ANSI C disallowed it.

Then I think gcc put it back as an extension. 

Don't know for sure -- since then, portability concerns have taught
me to code more conservatively. 

-- Steve M. 


On Tue, 30 Jan 2001, Rainer Deyke wrote:

> "Quinn Dunkan" <quinn at groat.ugcs.caltech.edu> wrote in message
> news:slrn97cu0u.eti.quinn at groat.ugcs.caltech.edu...
> > If C++ allows 'f(x) = y;', then C++ is truly weird.  What is *that*
> supposed
> > to mean?  'f(x)' returns a value, and assigning to a value makes no sense.
> > You assign to variables, not values.  I could understand '*(f(x)) = y;',
> but
> > the only way I can see to get 'f(x) = y;' to do what you want is to have
> 'f'
> > return an lvalue.  Icon does stuff like that, but it has an excuse: it's
> icon.
> > Just out of curiosity, what is the type of the C++ 'f' function above (and
> > don't say "cpp macro" :) ?  It's likely C++'s idea of assignment is one
> I'm
> > not familiar with.
> 
> 'f' here is a function that returns a reference:
> 
> int& f(int);
> 
> This is particularily useful when implementing 'operator[]':
> 
> struct array {
>   int data[5];
>   int& operator[](int n) { return data[n]; }
> };
> 
> array a;
> a[0] = 5;
> a.operator[](0) = 5; // This statement is equivalent to the one above it.
> 
> 




From joejava at dragonat.net  Fri Jan  5 18:19:27 2001
From: joejava at dragonat.net (Joel Ricker)
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 18:19:27 -0500
Subject: Calling an application from inside a python script Take 1
References: <mailman.978680886.5942.python-list@python.org> <9351o8$8qm$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <tGs56.1056$4Z.77453@news2.atl>

Donn Cave wrote in message <9351o8$8qm$1 at nntp6.u.washington.edu>...

>try that and see what happens?  That's an intentionally hostile
>input (don't try it, really.)  Accidental input errors might be harmless,
>or might not.
>
>I didn't see anything wrong with the ssh in your initial post, the
>problem was system().  system() + user-supplied input = unpredictable
>results.  Use spawnv().


I'm not sure if you are familar with perl but perl has a pragma called Taint
that when enabled prohibits the use of user supplied input until the proper
input is regexed out of it - for example, usernames shouldn't have any
punctuation other than _ or control codes, etc.  I'm not sure exactly what
Python has in this regard as this is Day 1 of my Perl Recovery Program (*s*)
but its a mindset worth applying.

Joel


I'd




From andreas at andreas-jung.com  Thu Jan 18 05:10:11 2001
From: andreas at andreas-jung.com (Andreas Jung)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 11:10:11 +0100
Subject: Python FTP module
In-Reply-To: <MPG.14d0f6f1f4045a62989682@news.syd.connect.com.au>; from derek@realware.com.au on Thu, Jan 18, 2001 at 12:50:27PM +1000
References: <MPG.14d0f6f1f4045a62989682@news.syd.connect.com.au>
Message-ID: <20010118111011.A5179@yetix.sz-sb.de>

On Thu, Jan 18, 2001 at 12:50:27PM +1000, Realware Systems wrote:
> I am sure there is a python FTP module but I don't know where it is or 
> what it is called. Any ideas?

"ftplib" 



From dnew at san.rr.com  Tue Jan 16 13:06:44 2001
From: dnew at san.rr.com (Darren New)
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 18:06:44 GMT
Subject: Determining names of instances
References: <e7L86.554$KD3.238565@typhoon.aracnet.com> <ngQ86.15939$BI2.3974221@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>
Message-ID: <3A648DB4.363EFF98@san.rr.com>

Nick Mathewson wrote:
> The moral is a corolary to Fredrik Lundh's cat analogy: Although your
> neighbors (namespaces) can tell you the names they call the cat
> (object), and although they can tell you what names that their friends
> call the cat -- if you really want the cat (object) to have a name of its
> own, you'll need to put a tag around its neck (set an attribute).


And since the cat still won't come when you call it, the cat's *actual* name
is the sound of a can-openner.


-- 
Darren New / Senior MTS & Free Radical / Invisible Worlds Inc.
San Diego, CA, USA (PST).  Cryptokeys on demand.
"It says this wine has syphilis."
               "I think that's pronounced `sulphates'."


From sholden at holdenweb.com  Thu Jan  4 13:43:06 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 13:43:06 -0500
Subject: embedded python - cancel "while 1: pass"
References: <mailman.978625931.30488.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Dw356.136$xT.31713@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>

Oleg Broytmann <phd at phd.pp.ru> wrote in message
news:mailman.978625931.30488.python-list at python.org...
> On Thu, 4 Jan 2001, Warren Postma wrote:
> > How about uninterruptible C code called via python, such as this:
> >
> > print 2L ** 2L ** 256
> >
> > I've let this run for 15 minutes and it didn't complete. There is no
> > apparent way to abort it either, as it spends its time in long_mult and
the
> > Python scheduler doesn't even run. It must complete eventually. Any idea
how
> > long long_mult and long_pow will take to complete this?
> >
> > In that case, I think I'm still stuck with the Three Finger Salute
method
> > (reboot).
>
>    Wow, it seems you are a Windows guy! Why not just kill the process
> instead of rebooting everything?
>
And it seems you aren't!  CTRL-ALT-DEL brings up either the Task Manager (in
NT) or the Close Program window (in 95 and 98).  Either of these allow you
to selectively terminate a single misbehaving application.

regards
 Steve





From mikael at isy.liu.se  Mon Jan 29 10:50:48 2001
From: mikael at isy.liu.se (Mikael Olofsson)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 16:50:48 +0100 (MET)
Subject: Books
In-Reply-To: <3a758a80@netnews.web.de>
Message-ID: <XFMail.010129165048.mikael@isy.liu.se>

On 29-Jan-01 Volker Jahns wrote:
 >  What is the benefit using pyhton instead of PHP or JAVA (serversided)? It
 >  makes 
 >  we wonder, that the python.org uses php for dynamic web pages. So am I on
 >  the 
 >  wrong way using python for  dynamic web pages with database access (mysql, 
 >  postgress,...)?

What makes you think python.org is using PHP? You have happened to find
a site called pyhton.org that seems to use PHP. At least to me that 
seems to be two different places. Compyters are nit-pickers when it
comes to spelling.

pyTHon-is-pyTHon-is-pyTHon-ly y'rs

/Mikael

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WWW:     http://www.dtr.isy.liu.se/dtr/staff/mikael               
Phone:   +46 - (0)13 - 28 1343
Telefax: +46 - (0)13 - 28 1339
Date:    29-Jan-01
Time:    16:46:14

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From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Thu Jan 11 11:52:43 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 17:52:43 +0100
Subject: boolean xor
References: <93ace8$nmo$1@panix3.panix.com> <93i7ne$5dk$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <93i9ff$q4l$1@slb0.atl.mindspring.net> <pI576.21295$ge4.9910815@news2.rdc2.tx.home.com> <93iuj9$jta$1@slb3.atl.mindspring.net> <cLa76.23299$ge4.10502177@news2.rdc2.tx.home.com> <93jls9$v12$1@slb3.atl.mindspring.net> <Tbi76.10504$X3.66627@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <93kofr01bg2@news1.newsguy.com>

"Steve Holden" <sholden at holdenweb.com> wrote in message
news:Tbi76.10504$X3.66627 at e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com...
    [snip]
> A possibly salient point which hasn't been explicitly stated in this
thread
> (but might have been, seventeen days ago, my aging memory and general
> decreptitude being what it is) is that the binary logical operators
> short-circuit, and return the value of the last operand they evaluated.
Even

Bingo -- I *was* starting to think I should post about that.  For least-
astonishment purposes, I'd thus like the xor function to behave similarly:
return either A or B if at all possible (it may not be, of course, if
both A and B are true).  E.g.,

def xor(A,B):
    if not A: return B
    if not B: return A

(perhaps too cutesy in the attempted symmetry and in relying on the
default fall-off-the-end to avoid an explicit return None...).


Alex





From nospam at nospam.com  Thu Jan 18 23:12:02 2001
From: nospam at nospam.com (Tom)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 04:12:02 GMT
Subject: Jython-2.0 released
References: <mailman.979852051.13723.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m8P96.185124$59.49360823@news3.rdc1.on.home.com>

I thought that what existed before was a python enterpreter written in Java.
But this sounds like a Python compiler.  Is this something new?

Tom.

"Finn Bock" <bckfnn at worldonline.dk> wrote in message
news:mailman.979852051.13723.python-list at python.org...
>
> I am happy to announce the release of Jython 2.0.
>
> Jython is a Java implementation of the Python programming
> language.  It allows users to compile Python source code to
> Java byte codes, and run the resulting bytecodes on any Java
> Virtual Machine.  It is a very seamless and smooth
> integration with Java:  from Python you have complete access
> to all Java libraries, can build applets, can integrate with
> Java beans, and can subclass Java classes in Python and vice
> versa.  Like Python, and unlike Java, Jython can also be
> used interactively:  just type some Jython code at the
> prompt and see the results immediately.
>
> A java installer is available for download at the Jython website:
>
>     http://www.jython.org/
>
> Installation is started by running the installer class. Further
> information and tips on installation is available at:
>
>     http://www.jython.org/install.html
>
> Jython 2.0 is feature compatible with Python 2.0 and among the
> new feature are:
>
>   - Augmented assignment, e.g. x += 1
>   - List comprehensions, e.g. [x**2 for x in range(10)]
>   - Extended import statement, e.g. import Module as Name
>   - Extended print statement, e.g. print >> file, "Hello"
>
>
> A complete list of changes and differences are available here:
>
>   http://www.jython.org/NEWS.html
>
> Bugs can be reported to the bug manager on SourceForge:
>
>   http://sourceforge.net/bugs/?group_id=12867
>
> Cheers,
> the jython-developers
>




From ryant at thawte.com  Fri Jan 12 11:01:30 2001
From: ryant at thawte.com (Ryan Tracey)
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 18:01:30 +0200
Subject: URL replacement in text
Message-ID: <3A5F2A5A.494023BF@thawte.com>

Hi 

Can anybody point me in the right direction on this one. I'd like to
pass a block of plain text (string) to a function and have that function
look for URLs and turn them into HTML URL tags and then return the
updated text, e.g.:

'blah http://www.foo.net/index.html blah' to 'blah <a
href="http://www.foo.net/index.html">http://www.foo.net/index.html</a>
blah'.

I'm looking at the re and regsub module docs but... I like to look at
examples ;-)

TIA.

Cheers,
Ryan


From gregj at pobox.com  Fri Jan 12 01:49:41 2001
From: gregj at pobox.com (Greg Jorgensen)
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 06:49:41 GMT
Subject: post in CGI scripts
References: <mailman.979051149.6515.python-list@python.org> <93lsr8$did$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <9Ox76.255986$U46.8114378@news1.sttls1.wa.home.com>

"Arthur" <alembert at mypad.com> wrote in message
news:93lsr8$did$1 at nnrp1.deja.com...
> In article <mailman.979051149.6515.python-list at python.org>,
>   Barbini Uberto <Uberto.Barbini at ceda.polimi.it> wrote:
>
> > I've found some problems to use "post" method in my cgi script (in
> python).
>
> I don't understand the difference between 'get' and 'post' methods.
> I learned that 'get' will send data in /cgi-bin/<program>?<data> format
> but how does 'post' send data? and why 'post' was created?

GET requests a resource (document, etc.) from the server. POST sends
information to the server. GET and POST overlap to some degree because in
both methods can send encoded parameters in the URL, which the server can
parse and pass to a CGI or other handler. But POST can send data to the
server that GET can't: binary data (such as file uploads), big chunks of
data, and multipart MIME data.

The main practical differences are: GET puts everything in the URL, so the
user can see everything sent to the server. POST requests send data
separately from the URL. POST can send as much data as necessary to the
server, but browsers and servers impose limits on the length of URLs, which
restricts the amount of data that can be sent with GET.

--
Greg Jorgensen
PDXperts
Portland, Oregon, USA
gregj at pobox.com




From m.faassen at vet.uu.nl  Sat Jan 13 07:32:12 2001
From: m.faassen at vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen)
Date: 13 Jan 2001 12:32:12 GMT
Subject: Should I learn Python or Java?
References: <HEO56.5504$y9.2881293@typhoon.we.rr.com> <9393jk$fku$1@plonk.apk.net> <939q0a$d8s$1@newshost.accu.uu.nl> <93ol5s$2c8$1@plonk.apk.net>
Message-ID: <93phsc$c4c$1@newshost.accu.uu.nl>

Joseph T. Adams <joe at apk.net> wrote:
> Martijn Faassen <m.faassen at vet.uu.nl> wrote:
[snip]
> : So why do you say Smalltalk is far more similar to Java than to Python?

> Probably the part I underscored above.  Smalltalk and Java both seem
> attuned to the same OO-centric mindset, while Python is as you say
> more paradigm-agnostic.

But there's a huge difference in the way OO is done in both languages.
Smalltalk approach to objects is a lot more similar to Python's than
Java's. Anyway, it's of course debatable. :)

Regards,

Martijn
-- 
History of the 20th Century: WW1, WW2, WW3?
No, WWW -- Could we be going in the right direction?


From delza at antarcti.ca  Thu Jan 25 12:37:17 2001
From: delza at antarcti.ca (Dethe Elza)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 17:37:17 GMT
Subject: Tkinter vs wxPython: your opinions?
References: <3A6F899F.E164F628@home.com>
Message-ID: <hvZb6.2156$_8.33280@news1.rdc1.bc.home.com>

Purely anecdotal information:

I was building a simple app in wxPython on Windows because I'd heard Tkinter
was 'too slow.'
Things were relatively OK, but when I tried to run it on Linux some
functions were not yet
implemented and the program would coredump frequently.  wxPython/wxWindows
is a swiftly
moving target, so these problems may well be fixed now.  But I ported to
Tkinter and it's been
fast enough for my limited needs, and with Tkinter 3000 I expect it to be
even faster (haven't had
time to test that yet, perhaps this weekend).

Using Tkinter also has the advantage that it will work on my antique Mac Duo
which my 4-year
old daughter uses for games.  This is pretty crucial for me, since what I'm
writing is basically a
game for her.

--Dethe

"Rick Lee" <rwklee at home.com> wrote in message
news:3A6F899F.E164F628 at home.com...
> It has to be cross platform between Linux and Windows, so it  seems that
> my choices are Tkinter and wxPython.
>
> Your experience, thoughts, opinion, on the relative merits and pitfalls
> of each?
>
> My particular case:  A GUI that has 5 windows max., will incorporate a
> xmlrpc client, will have a python object browser, being able to build
> data entry screens on the fly from a description of an object's
> attributes, programmer not familiar with either toolkit.
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> - Rick Lee
>




From gradha at iname.com  Sat Jan 20 04:17:36 2001
From: gradha at iname.com (gradha at iname.com)
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 10:17:36 +0100
Subject: How do I know all thrown exceptions of a function?
Message-ID: <g3lb49.73s.ln@127.0.0.1>

Hi.

Several times browsing the module library, I've found some functions which
state explicitly what exceptions they throw, because they are not the
built-in types. However, how can I know the built-in exceptions a function
my throw?

This happened while implementing a file open call: I remembered it throwed
and IOError exception when the file I was trying to open wasn't there, but
I guess that's not a great way to discover what exceptions are thrown...

-- 

 Grzegorz Adam Hankiewicz   gradha at iname.com - http://gradha.infierno.org
 Other web pages:  http://glub.ehu.es/  -  http://welcome.to/gogosoftware/


From moshez at zadka.site.co.il  Sat Jan 13 16:12:04 2001
From: moshez at zadka.site.co.il (Moshe Zadka)
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 23:12:04 +0200 (IST)
Subject: Should I learn Python or Java?
In-Reply-To: <93phsc$c4c$1@newshost.accu.uu.nl>
References: <93phsc$c4c$1@newshost.accu.uu.nl>, <HEO56.5504$y9.2881293@typhoon.we.rr.com> <9393jk$fku$1@plonk.apk.net> <939q0a$d8s$1@newshost.accu.uu.nl> <93ol5s$2c8$1@plonk.apk.net>
Message-ID: <20010113211204.4471AA828@darjeeling.zadka.site.co.il>

On 13 Jan 2001 12:32:12 GMT, m.faassen at vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen) wrote:

> But there's a huge difference in the way OO is done in both languages.
> Smalltalk approach to objects is a lot more similar to Python's than
> Java's. Anyway, it's of course debatable. :)

OTOH, Java and Smalltalk both take the "we are the world" approach,
while Python slithers into whatever niches it finds, playing nicely
with everyone it finds there. (UNIX? It can fork/pipe/munge text files with
the best of them. Windows? It can COM and ActiveX until your face
turned blue. Java? There isn't a class it can't use)
(I know you know this)

-- 
Moshe Zadka <sig at zadka.site.co.il>
This is a signature anti-virus. 
Please stop the spread of signature viruses!



From mlh at idi.ntnu.no  Sat Jan 27 19:15:54 2001
From: mlh at idi.ntnu.no (Magnus Lie Hetland)
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 01:15:54 +0100
Subject: Python vs Ruby
References: <94mdkd$222e$1@news.adamastor.ac.za> <p6qwvbjtr97.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de> <mailman.980510622.2558.python-list@python.org> <877l3h5a29.fsf@hoyogw.netlab.co.jp>
Message-ID: <94voh3$5nm$1@snipp.uninett.no>

"Yukihiro Matsumoto" <matz at zetabits.com> wrote in message
news:877l3h5a29.fsf at hoyogw.netlab.co.jp...
[...]
> double?  Fibonacci is mostly based on function calls

Not necessarily...

(By the way, your function wasn't altogether correct...)

> so that it's not the best field of Ruby.  But they give almost same
> performance result on my box.

If you want one that's in the "best field" of Ruby, you might want to
do something like this:

def fib(n):
    x, y, z = 1, 1, 1
    if n > 2:
        for i in range(n):
            x, y, z = y, z, x+y
    return z

(Here, fib(1) is the first fib)

And if you insist on using a recursive version, at *least* you should
use dynamic programming/memoization to avoid redundant revcursive
calls, or you will end up with an exponential running time...
That would cut down on the number of function calls and perhaps
help wrt. Ruby... I don't know :-)

--

  Magnus Lie Hetland      (magnus at hetland dot org)

 "Reality is what refuses to disappear when you stop
  believing in it"                 -- Philip K. Dick





From gustav at morpheus.demon.co.uk  Sun Jan  7 16:12:59 2001
From: gustav at morpheus.demon.co.uk (Paul Moore)
Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2001 21:12:59 +0000
Subject: How do I get a mimetools.Message object from a mailbox.UnixMailbox object?
Message-ID: <vgmh5tkv7h0blpv6j8t1soiipoaum64u7v@4ax.com>

I'm parsing a Unix mbox format file in Python. No problem, that's what
the mailbox module does...

The problem is, mbx.next() returns a rfc822.Message instance - and my
mailbox contains MIME-encoded messages with attachments. How do I get
from the rfc822.Message instance to a mimetools.Message instance?

Thanks,
Paul Moore


From joconnor at cybermesa.com  Thu Jan 25 19:03:03 2001
From: joconnor at cybermesa.com (Jay O'Connor)
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 00:03:03 GMT
Subject: Testing ODBC, what am I missing?
Message-ID: <3a70be19.73570291@news.cybermesa.com>

I download and installed mxODBC, I'm trying to do some small testing
so I'm using the the Text and Excel drivers under windows

When I try so a Connect() I get 

>>> db = ODBC.Windows.Connect ("TestDatabase")
Traceback (innermost last):
  File "<pyshell#24>", line 1, in ?
    db = ODBC.Windows.Connect ("TestDatabase")
NotSupportedError: ('S1C00', 84, '[Microsoft][ODBC Excel Driver]Driver
not capable ', 4226)

When I try using DriverConnect, I get 

>>> db = ODBC.Windows.DriverConnect ("TestPersonDB")
Traceback (innermost last):
  File "<pyshell#22>", line 1, in ?
    db = ODBC.Windows.DriverConnect ("TestPersonDB")
OperationalError: ('IM002', 0, '[Microsoft][ODBC Driver Manager] Data
source name not found and no default driver specified', 4316)

Any ideas?

Both databases are in the System DSN
Jay O'Connor
joconnor at cybermesa.com
http://www.cybermesa.com/~joconnor

"God himself plays on the bass strings first, when he tunes the soul"


From nas at arctrix.com  Tue Jan 16 12:15:19 2001
From: nas at arctrix.com (Neil Schemenauer)
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 09:15:19 -0800
Subject: Problem with a tuple - newbie ignorance
In-Reply-To: <3A64D9E8.B1D52E1E@mail.mcg.edu>; from kwoeltje@mail.mcg.edu on Tue, Jan 16, 2001 at 11:30:29PM +0000
References: <3A633531.9010303@yale.edu> <3A635C32.9E5285C5@yale.edu> <i1k76t8g9dr5fft0v0phcr98hb6qkdjbaq@4ax.com> <slrn968fk9.g0f.scarblac@pino.selwerd.nl> <nk096.27$eI2.11999@ruti.visi.com> <3A64D9E8.B1D52E1E@mail.mcg.edu>
Message-ID: <20010116091519.A9096@glacier.fnational.com>

On Tue, Jan 16, 2001 at 11:30:29PM +0000, Keith F. Woeltje wrote:
> Normal (forward) slashes won't however work in a command prompt
> window in Win2000.  Does the python interpreter make the change
> "magically" (like it does the end of line marker)?

No.  I believe the Win32 API accepts either / or \ as a path
separator .  Its the command shell that's braindead.  They can't
use / because its used to signal a flag.  I guess Win2000 still
shows its CP/M heritage.

  Neil



From cpsoct at my-deja.com  Sun Jan 21 04:16:55 2001
From: cpsoct at my-deja.com (cpsoct at my-deja.com)
Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 09:16:55 GMT
Subject: help with code for combinations/permutations
References: <mailman.979763239.20136.python-list@python.org> <94bbev$vai$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <94c0np0m18@news2.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <94e9e5$4i1$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

Oh, then i misunderstood. Anyway i didn't see your post on this thread.
I am reading on www.deja.com and it, while cool in some respects, seems
to break threads up often. I have a hard time seeing all the items on a
thread.  Anyway, Thanks very much for your reply to my bunching and
nesting questions.

I'll search back and see if i can find your code on this thread i only
saw the message that Tim Peters wrote about the question being ill-
stated so i was trying to re-imagine the problem from the perspective
of my own small brain.


best,

kevin parks
seoul, korea



In article <94c0np0m18 at news2.newsguy.com>,
  "Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote:
> <cpsoct at my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:94bbev$vai$1 at nnrp1.deja.com...
> > It is not my question, but if i may be permitted, i think i can ask
get
> > more specific. Or rather try to suggest one possibility. Do you
perhaps
> > mean something that would be like this:
> >
> > permute(list, n) -- return the nth permutation of a list.
>
> Actually, the original poster explicitly asked for *combinations*, NOT
> *permutations*:
>
> > > > I need to come up with all possible combinations of the numbers
>
> and went on to use a commutative operator ('+') on the subsets, so
> I see no reason to doubt he really wanted combinations (the difference
> being that ordering of items does not distinguish combinations, while
> it is all that distinguishes permutations!-).
>
> I answered the original question, in practice, exactly by building a
> function that returns the N-th subset (combination) of a sequence --
> easy, given the isomorphism between such subsets and binary
> numbers of len(sequence) bits!-)  Enumerating permutations is
> not quite as easy, although of course quite feasible.  But anyway,
> the little Pythonish trick around this is writing this function as the
> __getitem__ method of a class wrapped around the sequence --
> that way, client-code can just loop on all 'items' (whether they be
> combinations, permutations, whatever) with a for statement.
>
> Alex
>
>


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From panda at skinnyhippo.com  Tue Jan  2 04:13:44 2001
From: panda at skinnyhippo.com (chas)
Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2001 17:13:44 +0800
Subject: Year of the Snake
In-Reply-To: <92rtoe$a3n$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
References: <HD046.21887$Aj6.1292110@news.hananet.net>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010102171344.009a7350@209.207.216.149>

June Kim wrote:
> This is the year of the snake according to the 12 zodiacal animal 
> signs largely used in most of Asia  including Japan, China, and Korea. 
> Taking it as a metaphor, Python Users Group in Korea(PyKUG) is pleased 
> to announced that  this year is "the year of Python" in Korea.
> 
> As one way to raise the public interest in Korea, we are planning to 
> have the 2nd Python Seminar on Feb/2/2001. Having more than 1,000 
> members joined in last year, we expect to have a larger number of 
> audience in the seminar than the first one.

It's been a lonely few years as I've gone from Malaysia/Singapore
to China/Taiwan and now find myself in HK .... meeting very few
Python guys along the way. So to hear that you've had 1,000 members
join in the last year alone is exciting stuff... 

As luck would have it, I'll be in Korea at that time and would love
to attend  ... but with very little Korean language skills, wonder 
if it's going to be a problem.... 

cheers,

chas






From ungrzr2 at ubatxbat.pbz  Mon Jan  1 22:10:40 2001
From: ungrzr2 at ubatxbat.pbz ({-- Rot13 - Hateme)
Date: 2 Jan 2001 03:10:40 GMT
Subject: Add decodestring to module quopri ?
Message-ID: <901D79D7DYouAreNotMeYouKnow@205.252.144.34>

currently quopri only have 

decode(input, output)
encode(input, output)

which take file objects as arguements. Please add
decodestring(string) and encodestring(string) for
encoding/decoding string buffers. module base64
already has this methods.


From nickatvideosystemdotcodotuk  Fri Jan 12 12:25:07 2001
From: nickatvideosystemdotcodotuk (Nick Trout)
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 17:25:07 -0000
Subject: is Python fully object oriented ?
References: <20010110184830.13286.00000826@ng-fg1.aol.com> <3A5E5C21.3E036BFE@intelligenesis.net> <mailman.979276693.8766.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3a5f3e1a@news.xtml.co.uk>

Interesting answer. I agree about "self". Its consistent use is a sort of a
Python coding standard. That, and other features of the language, like
indentation, makes code easier to read and trace. As also mentioned, in a
seperate post, the fact that you only have one file to maintain, ie. not
header and implementation file is another productivity gain, through
clarity.





From emile at fenx.com  Wed Jan 24 11:58:34 2001
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 08:58:34 -0800
Subject: Data output
References: <3A6F05CD.D37C383B@aon.at>
Message-ID: <94n1l9$ea9j2$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>

Here are some excerpts from a zope based label printing
utility I set up last year under winnt work station:

 if REQUEST.printLoc == "California":
  printerID = r"\\nova104\weber"
  printerDevice = "LPT2"
  outFile = r'f:\CA_Label.txt'
  batFile = r'f:\CA_Label.cmd'
 elif REQUEST.printLoc == "Illinois":
  printerID = r"\\shipping\webera1"
  printerDevice = "LPT3"
  outFile = r'f:\IL_Label.txt'
  batFile = r'f:\IL_Label.cmd'
 elif REQUEST.printLoc == "None":
  printerID = r"\\fclt\weber"
  printerDevice = "LPT2"
  outFile = r'f:\FX_Test.txt'
  batFile = r'f:\FX_Test.cmd'

######### and the later....

 osCommands = [('net use %s: /DELETE' % (printerDevice,)),
   ('net use %s: %s /PERSISTENT:YES' % (printerDevice,
printerID)),
   ('copy %s %s:' % (outFile, printerDevice))]

 if problems:
  return string.join(problems,'\n')
 else:
  printer.flush()
  printer.close()
  batch = open(batFile, 'w')
  for eachCommand in osCommands:
   batch.write("%s\n" % eachCommand)
  batch.flush()
  batch.close()
  os.system(batFile)
  if REQUEST.printLoc == "None":
   return
"Submitted!\n\nReprinted:%s\n\nSequences:%s\n\nLines:%s\n\nR
EQUEST:%s" % (repr(rePrintSeqs), repr(assignedSeqs),
db_repr(lines), repr(REQUEST))
  else:
   return "Submitted!"




Hope this makes sense.  :-)


--

Emile van Sebille
emile at fenx.com
-------------------


"Oliver Vecernik" <vecernik at aon.at> wrote in message
news:3A6F05CD.D37C383B at aon.at...
> Hi all,
>
> I recently started using Python and I like it a lot.
> I'd like to control label printers. I know how to control
them, but I
> don't know how to output data on Win XX or Linux machines
to network
> printers.
> I don't want any windows driver to convert anything (like
adding
> formfeeds, newlines or whatever).
>
> Can anyone give my a clue or point me to some
documentation?
>
> Thanks.
> Oliver




From l.szyster at ibm.net  Sun Jan  7 21:07:49 2001
From: l.szyster at ibm.net (Laurent Szyster)
Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2001 03:07:49 +0100
Subject: ssl
References: <935qju$j8d$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <3A5920F4.8E38B24@ibm.net>

python at mattrussell.plus.com wrote:
> 
> has anyone implemented any ssl connections in python?
> I am trying to get it to work on a win2k box (yuk).
>
> I understand that the unix implementation uses
> openSSL||SSLeay libraries.
> 
> Does win *have* use the same?

Yes.

> More importantly, in python 1.5.2 ssl was availble as
> a third party patch that needed to be compiled in to
> the main disto - has python 2.0 rectified this and made
> it part of the distro?

No, SSL support is not compiled in the main distribution.
There are three ways to get around that problem:

1. (long) recompile python with SSL support enabled

2. (difficult) download m2crypto binaries from 

	http://mars.post1.com/home/ngps/m2/

   understand how it works and add SSL support to your app   

3. (easy) download stunnel binaries from

	http://www.stunnel.org

   to create an SSL tunnel between your python application
   and the SSL client or server.


Laurent Szyster


From ray_drew at yahoo.co.uk  Fri Jan 19 10:58:08 2001
From: ray_drew at yahoo.co.uk (Ray Drew)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 15:58:08 GMT
Subject: PSU uses emacs?
References: <948e4b$hm0$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <948fvj$oq1$1@panix6.panix.com> <3A67CDC3.7EACB07D@Lugoj.Com> <9490t009on@news2.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <3a685ef2.3403798@reading.news.pipex.net>

On Fri, 19 Jan 2001 10:10:12 +0100, "Alex Martelli"
<aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>vi here too (gvim, actually -- Python-programmable and all:-).
>
>
>Alex
>
(on Win98)
I've been using Idle but I'd like to try gvim. A few questions spring
to mind...

Do you use a command window for interactive sessions, or can you run
an interpreter within gvim (as with emacs)? If you use a command
window, how do you manage repeating previous code snippets?

How do you debug... in the command window with pdb?

Do you use the ole version to make it Python-programmable? Can you
give a simple example of how this might be used?

Any other tips for using gvim with Python?


Thanks,

Ray Drew
CIA UK





From kirschh at lionbioscience.com  Thu Jan 18 02:42:05 2001
From: kirschh at lionbioscience.com (Harald Kirsch)
Date: 18 Jan 2001 08:42:05 +0100
Subject: How to close all files between fork and exec?
References: <yv27l3upooj.fsf@lionsp093.lion-ag.de> <3A65B707.2010506@obfuscate.ic.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <yv2bst5488i.fsf@lionsp093.lion-ag.de>

Phil Mayers <p.mayers at obfuscate.ic.ac.uk> writes:

> 2) Use the sysconf module to get the "real" max open files. If there
> isn't a limit (stupid...) then go as high as you think is "reasonable"
> given the environment you're inheriting from.

Why stupid? I think its rather stupid not to know the highest open
file descriptor at any time. Well, but that's a UNIX design flaw and I
think I'll do like you propose.

Thanks,
  Harald Kirsch

-- 
----------------+------------------------------------------------------
Harald Kirsch   | kirschh at lionbioscience.com | "How old is the epsilon?"
LION Bioscience | +49 6221 4038 172          |        -- Paul Erd?s
       *** Please do not send me copies of your posts. ***


From katz at Glue.umd.edu  Fri Jan 26 20:34:34 2001
From: katz at Glue.umd.edu (Roy Katz)
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 20:34:34 -0500
Subject: . Python 2.1 function attributes
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0101260824430.1922-100000@y.glue.umd.edu>

Hello..

I posted before a much longer version of this question but I got only one
response.  What do function attributes give that cannot be accomplished
with function objects?



Thanks,

/R




From m.faassen at vet.uu.nl  Fri Jan 12 04:32:58 2001
From: m.faassen at vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen)
Date: 12 Jan 2001 09:32:58 GMT
Subject: Web devel with python. Whats the best route?
References: <93cqvi0191h@news1.newsguy.com> <mailman.978910629.6814.python-list@python.org> <mailman.978975978.19612.python-list@python.org> <spenrose-E755EB.22423209012001@news.dnai.com> <93hfp1013sm@news2.newsguy.com> <spenrose-149DD9.22095710012001@news.dnai.com> <93juec0fk6@news1.newsguy.com> <93kije$cgg$1@newshost.accu.uu.nl> <93knpa01aen@news1.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <93mj0a$hn2$1@newshost.accu.uu.nl>

Alex Martelli <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote:
[snip]
> I'll wait to check until the zope site stabilizes then (it's surely
> a strange image that an unstable site is doing, showing off a web
> app platform, darn...), but the basic concept seems sound & viable.

I suspect it's due to the somewhat experimental setup they run there;
ZEO and such, multiple servers pretending to be the same object 
database. It was running fine before, but something must've seriously flaked
out at one point. Seems to be working again.

Regards,

Martijn
-- 
History of the 20th Century: WW1, WW2, WW3?
No, WWW -- Could we be going in the right direction?


From grzegorz at ohaton.cs.ualberta.ca  Wed Jan 17 17:28:20 2001
From: grzegorz at ohaton.cs.ualberta.ca (Grzegorz Dostatni)
Date: 17 Jan 2001 22:28:20 GMT
Subject: Location of variables
Message-ID: <9456a4$8bi$1@pulp.srv.ualberta.ca>

Is there a way in Python to find out the memory location of variables?  
Something like 

def s():
	pass

print s

will print the type and memory location of s.  
Is there something like that if s is just a simple variable?  
(int for example).

I need it to help me debug a problem...

Greg

-- 




From mcalla at home.com  Sun Jan 28 22:12:07 2001
From: mcalla at home.com (Mike Callahan)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 03:12:07 GMT
Subject: Pythonpath in Windows
Message-ID: <bc5d6.199994$iy3.48342380@news1.rdc1.tn.home.com>

I would like to get my windows python 2.0 to be able to import any script
that is in the current working directory. Do I need to add '.' to the
pythonpath in the registry? Is that the only thing?

Mike Callahan





From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Jan 23 01:00:36 2001
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 01:00:36 -0500
Subject: What does Python do
References: <94gmeu$4fc$1@sooner.brightok.net> <t1Sa6.4569$Yv.544288@juliett.dax.net> <94gvv5$7mo$1@sooner.brightok.net> <LPUa6.4598$Yv.546853@juliett.dax.net> <2F4DC6312B7FE9DA.74AB95EBEF3C09D4.1D6BDBE5660A1914@lp.airnews.net> <eqZa6.1433$eI2.490960@ruti.visi.com>
Message-ID: <3A6D1E04.AABCC7DE@engcorp.com>

Grant Edwards wrote:
> 
> >I claim an even stronger proposition:  Python
> >is the single best language for most beginners.
> >Its applicability is as wide as *any* language
> >(yes, including C and Java), and it's quite in-
> >viting to first-timers.
> 
> There are some things for which C is still more applicable than
> Python: low-level programming such as real-time embedded
> systems and device drivers where C is used as a "portable
> assembler".  OTOH, I don't consider C applicable for GUI
> application development (Python is).
> 
> Since beginners aren't generally doing real-time embedded SW or
> device drivers, I concur that Python is probably the best
> language (of the ones I know) for a beginner.

Actually, Python can be suitable for real-time embedded 
software, as well.  (I suppose I could even stretch things
a little and say it's potentially suitable for device 
drivers, but not in the way most people would define
them.)

Python is actually *more* suitable for real-time work,
in certain circumstances, than Java.  For example, it
seems to be a little more deterministic (without the
garbage collection).  On the other hand the threading
model could mess things up for you, but if you focus
on a specific platform, even that is not necessarily
a problem.


From sheila at thinkspot.net  Sun Jan 14 10:56:49 2001
From: sheila at thinkspot.net (Sheila King)
Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 15:56:49 GMT
Subject: File I/O, rfc822, and stdin/stdout
References: <m9b26t8f11lvfjg8a59fo8nfdcl1ro9art@4ax.com> <mailman.979458074.1585.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <72i36t8mmo27mi2nmv5iahr4ospps9crat@4ax.com>

On Sun, 14 Jan 2001 01:40:43 -0600, Eric Rahmig <erahmig at minn.net> wrote in
comp.lang.python in article <mailman.979458074.1585.python-list at python.org>:

:If you're not using qmail's 'preline' utility in your .qmail files
:that might cause a problem. Without the use of 'preline' the email
:message your script sees will NOT start with a From line and will
:NOT contain a Return-Path header.

You know, at some point I had been using preline, but eventually I removed it.
It didn't seem to be accomplishing much (of course, I had so many other errors
at that point ...

Anyhow, just now I put it back in, to see what would happen. At least, it
delivered an e-mail.

:I'm new to Python and have no experience with the rfc822 module. If
:it is strict in its message parsing and expects a message to contain
:a From line and a Return-Path header then use of preline should help
:you:
:
:.qmail-foo:
:|preline somescript.py ...

Well, apparently rfc822 requires those lines, because at least now it is
delivering a message.

Here is the script I just ran:

-------------------------------------------
#! /usr/bin/python

import sys, rfc822

raw_message = sys.stdin

inheaders=rfc822.Message(raw_message)
body=raw_message.read()

print inheaders
print
print body
-------------------------------------------

Here is the e-mail I just received:
-------------------------------------------
Return-Path: <sheila at thinkspot.net>
Delivered-To: xthinkspot-myuserID at thinkspot.net
Received: (qmail 7982 invoked by uid 41121); 14 Jan 2001 15:30:48 -0000
Date: 14 Jan 2001 15:30:48 -0000
Message-ID: <20010114153048.7981.qmail at nine.futurequest.net>
From: sheila at thinkspot.net
Cc: recipient list not shown: ;
Delivered-To: xthinkspot-mytestaddress at thinkspot.net

<rfc822.Message instance at 80bf6d8>
-------------------------------------------

That's it. The whole message.

first of all, the fact that there is no To: field or Subject field in the
message, shows that the headers that came out of my script are somehow broken
(because I did have a To: and a Subject: in the test mail I sent). Secondly,
why is "print body" causing this line?
<rfc822.Message instance at 80bf6d8>
?

When I ran the following script on a DOS prompt, where I have changed only the
source of input:
-------------------------------------------
#! /usr/bin/python

import sys, rfc822

#raw_message = sys.stdin
raw_message=open("message4.txt","r")

inheaders=rfc822.Message(raw_message)
body=raw_message.read()

print inheaders
print
print body
-------------------------------------------

The entire message body (along with headers) is printed out to the screen.

Anyhow, I guess I will go back to trying to write the messages to files, so I
can see exactly what the script is putting out, and try to figure out what the
problem is.

Thanks for suggesting preline. It did help.

--
Sheila King
http://www.thinkspot.net/sheila/
http://www.k12groups.org/


From emile at fenx.com  Sat Jan  6 10:39:58 2001
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2001 07:39:58 -0800
Subject: How To Think Like A Computer Scientist
References: <mailman.978792246.18973.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <937e9j$93n9d$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>

http://www.ibiblio.org/obp/thinkCSpy/index.htm

--

Emile van Sebille
emile at fenx.com
-------------------


"Nirina Raseliarison" <raseliar at dts.mg> wrote in message
news:mailman.978792246.18973.python-list at python.org...
> Hi All,
>
> Can you point to me another URL for the Python version?
> This one, I found in the archive:
> http://www.elkner.net/obp/thinkCS/thinkCSpy/index.htm
> seems to be broken now.
> Thanks in advance for your help
> Nirina
>




From spamers at must.die  Mon Jan 29 15:36:45 2001
From: spamers at must.die (Fernando Rodríguez)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 21:36:45 +0100
Subject: map and operator.add usage
Message-ID: <8okb7t067aicblsjr8idj726hdnt4pn04h@4ax.com>

Hi!

In Lisp I can do:

CL-USER 9 > (mapcar #'+ '(1 2) '(3 4) '(5 6))
(9 12)

but how can I do it in Python?

I tried: map(operator.add, [1, 2], [3, 4], [5, 6]) but Python complains that
operator.add need 2 operands... What's the easy way to do this in Python??
O:-)





//-----------------------------------------------
//	Fernando Rodriguez Romero
//
//	frr at mindless dot com
//------------------------------------------------


From emile at fenx.com  Fri Jan 19 21:11:55 2001
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 18:11:55 -0800
Subject: Tabbing/Spaces
References: <mailman.979955644.18879.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <94as72$cudel$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>

"Tim Peters" <tim.one at home.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.979955644.18879.python-list at python.org...
> [Robert L Hicks]
> > ...
> > While reading the reference manual it denotes that 8
spaces is
> > that standard for indentation.
>
> Where?  The Python compiler deals with a tab character by
moving to the next
> multiple-of-8 column, but that's just a (hardcoded) fact.
>

>From the Reference Manual:

2.1.7 Indentation
Leading whitespace (spaces and tabs) at the beginning of a
logical line is used to compute the indentation level of the
line, which in turn is used to determine the grouping of
statements.

First, tabs are replaced (from left to right) by one to
eight spaces such that the total number of characters up to
and including the replacement is a multiple of eight (this
is intended to be the same rule as used by Unix). The total
number of spaces preceding the first non-blank character
then determines the line's indentation. Indentation cannot
be split over multiple physical lines using backslashes; the
whitespace up to the first backslash determines the
indentation.

Glad-not-to-have-been-bit-by-the-time-machine-ly y'rs,


--

Emile van Sebille
emile at fenx.com
-------------------






From lisowski.tomasz at sssa.NOSPAM.com.pl  Wed Jan 31 01:35:55 2001
From: lisowski.tomasz at sssa.NOSPAM.com.pl (Tomasz Lisowski)
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 07:35:55 +0100
Subject: Tkinter : button size
References: <3A722DED.74B41DA1@mega-nerd.com> <aerc6.7548$Ch.1935320@newsrump.sjc.telocity.net> <3A723FD9.5AA0CDB@mega-nerd.com> <ADtc6.7723$Ch.2057364@newsrump.sjc.telocity.net>
Message-ID: <958bk0$fef$1@news.tpi.pl>

U?ytkownik "dsavitsk" <dsavitsk at e-coli.net> napisa? w wiadomo?ci
news:ADtc6.7723$Ch.2057364 at newsrump.sjc.telocity.net...
> it is probably worth looking at
> http://www.pythonware.com/library/tkinter/introduction/index.htm

Yeah, it's nice, but still there are many 'FIX ME' or "TO BE ADDED' parts,
and the document is more than one year old.

Tomasz Lisowski




From sholden at holdenweb.com  Fri Jan 12 08:06:54 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 08:06:54 -0500
Subject: boolean xor
References: <93ace8$nmo$1@panix3.panix.com> <93i7ne$5dk$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <93i9ff$q4l$1@slb0.atl.mindspring.net> <pI576.21295$ge4.9910815@news2.rdc2.tx.home.com> <93iuj9$jta$1@slb3.atl.mindspring.net> <cLa76.23299$ge4.10502177@news2.rdc2.tx.home.com> <93jls9$v12$1@slb3.atl.mindspring.net> <Tbi76.10504$X3.66627@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com> <93kofr01bg2@news1.newsguy.com> <61t76.2471$6i.33339@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com> <2Ft76.135896$15.28612550@news1.rdc1.az.home.com>
Message-ID: <NnD76.8874$Im.80232@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>

"Tim Hochberg" <tim.hochberg at ieee.org> wrote in message
news:2Ft76.135896$15.28612550 at news1.rdc1.az.home.com...
>
>
> I suspect that head thwacking will soon commence
>
[dim "thwack, thwack, thwack" is repeatedly heard in the background]

Dammit, the martellibot *is* infallible. I'll just go and lie down now.

regards
 Steve




From farmerk at pacbell.net  Sun Jan  7 21:56:50 2001
From: farmerk at pacbell.net (Keith Farmer)
Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2001 18:56:50 -0800
Subject: Python, ADO, VC++ 6
Message-ID: <R%966.323$l71.150865@news.pacbell.net>

I've been attempting to create a Python module in C++ which uses ADO to
perform calculations against a database.  I've encountered a slight problem
which I can't figure out how to correct.  I suspect it's in some
housekeeping, since the test function works correctly the first time, but
crashes the second.  If anybody could tell me where my problem is and
(better yet) how it may be corrected, I'd really appreciate it.  My email
address is deoradh at yahoo.com.

For those who would suggest swig: swig refuses to run, complaining that it
can't find python.swg.  The documentation for the windows installation is
minimal at best, focussing on recompiling swig itself (there's already a
swig binary, so this isn't what I'm needing to do).  When given the -I
option to tell it the path where python.swg may be found, it generates the
wrapper source, but dies on compilation.  I'm fairly unimpressed with swig,
and feel there's a better way to go about this.  The source copied below is
the source I retreated back to after attempting swig.

PythonWin 2.0 (#8, Oct 16 2000, 17:27:58) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on win32.
Portions Copyright 1994-2000 Mark Hammond (MarkH at ActiveState.com) - see
'Help/About PythonWin' for further copyright information.
>>> import AstroMath
>>> AstroMath.countRows("workqueue")
12  [this is correct]
>>> AstroMath.countRows("workqueue")
[promptly crashes with a memory reference error]

.....


/* astromath.cpp -- astronomical calculations
*/

# import "c:\program files\common files\system\ado\msado15.dll" \
   rename ( "EOF", "adoEOF" ) no_namespace

# include "Python.h"

// Initialize OLE

struct InitOle {
 InitOle() { ::CoInitialize(NULL); }
 ~InitOle() { ::CoUninitialize(); }
} _init_InitOle_;

static PyObject *AstroMathError;

static PyObject *AstroMath_countRows(PyObject *self, PyObject *args)
/* ADO example to pass whole SQL clause */
{

 long cnt; /* Define return variable */

 char *table;
 if (!PyArg_ParseTuple(args, "s", &table))
  return NULL;

 HRESULT   hr  = S_OK;
 _RecordsetPtr Rs1  = NULL;

 _bstr_t Connect("DSN=Astronomy");
 _bstr_t Source(strcat("select count(*) as cnt from ", table));

 hr = Rs1.CreateInstance(__uuidof(Recordset));

 Rs1->Open(Source, Connect, adOpenForwardOnly, adLockReadOnly, -1);

 cnt = (long) Rs1->Fields->GetItem( _variant_t("cnt"))->Value;

 Rs1->Close();
 Rs1 = NULL;

 return Py_BuildValue("i", cnt); /* Return value */

}

static PyMethodDef AstroMathMethods[] = {
 { "countRows", AstroMath_countRows, METH_VARARGS },
 { NULL, NULL }    /* Sentinel */
};

#ifdef MS_WIN32
__declspec(dllexport)
#endif

void initAstroMath()
{
 PyObject *m, *d;

 m = Py_InitModule("AstroMath", AstroMathMethods);
 d = PyModule_GetDict(m);
 AstroMathError = PyErr_NewException("AstroMath.error", NULL, NULL);
 PyDict_SetItemString(d, "error", AstroMathError);
}






From vecernik at aon.at  Wed Jan 24 11:41:49 2001
From: vecernik at aon.at (Oliver Vecernik)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 17:41:49 +0100
Subject: Data output
Message-ID: <3A6F05CD.D37C383B@aon.at>

Hi all,

I recently started using Python and I like it a lot.
I'd like to control label printers. I know how to control them, but I
don't know how to output data on Win XX or Linux machines to network
printers.
I don't want any windows driver to convert anything (like adding
formfeeds, newlines or whatever).

Can anyone give my a clue or point me to some documentation?

Thanks.
Oliver


From pilou_g at club-internet.fr  Sun Jan 21 11:11:38 2001
From: pilou_g at club-internet.fr (Pierre-Louis Gaucheron)
Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 17:11:38 +0100
Subject: [newbie]How to write lines of code in stdout ( like ksh -x option)?
References: <94cftu$np4$1@front5m.grolier.fr> <slrn96kk7s.9v2.quinn@regurgitate.ugcs.caltech.edu>
Message-ID: <94f1o5$95j$1@front9.grolier.fr>

Thanks for the answer,
but now how can I print the lines with their arguments evaluated, like in
your example :
"y = 10 * 2" instead of  "y  = x * 2" ?

"Quinn Dunkan" <quinn at regurgitate.ugcs.caltech.edu> a ?crit dans le message
news: slrn96kk7s.9v2.quinn at regurgitate.ugcs.caltech.edu...
> On Sat, 20 Jan 2001 17:55:12 +0100, Pierre-Louis Gaucheron
> <pilou_g at club-internet.fr> wrote:
> >Hello,
> >I am looking for a simple way to write each line interpreted on standard
> >output for debugging purpose like the set -x option in Korn shell.
> >I didn't find this information in any documentation, so here I am.
> >Thanks
>
> See the 'sys.settrace()' and 'pdb' documentation.
>
> #!/usr/local/bin/python
> import sys, linecache
>
> def trace(fr, evt, arg):
>     if evt == 'line':
>         f = fr.f_code.co_filename
>         n = fr.f_lineno
>         print '%s:%d -> ' %(f, n), linecache.getline(f, n),
>     return trace
>
> def main():
>     print 'hello'
>     x = 10
>     y = x * 2
>     print y
>
> if __name__ == '__main__':
>     sys.settrace(trace)
>     main()




From max at alcyone.com  Wed Jan 10 23:34:00 2001
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 20:34:00 -0800
Subject: default arguments newbie question
References: <3a5cccca.77467843@localhost> <93ijpa$asp$1@panix3.panix.com> <3A5CD60D.98CFAD33@alcyone.com> <93iuks$rh6$1@panix3.panix.com>
Message-ID: <3A5D37B8.5BADC7EA@alcyone.com>

Aahz Maruch wrote:

> You must have missed the post recently where someone showed a class
> that
> compared equal to None.

Pathological cases aside.

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, US / 37 20 N 121 53 W / ICQ16063900 / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Love has no heart.
\__/ Ned Rorem
    Computer science / http://www.alcyone.com/max/reference/compsci/
 A computer science reference.


From xs24 at netease.com  Wed Jan 17 19:59:51 2001
From: xs24 at netease.com (xs24 at netease.com)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 17:59:51 -0700
Subject: Stealth Mass Mailer, 10 Mil E-Addresses & Bulk Friendly ISPs..
Message-ID: <B0000492779@www.e-housebank.com>

An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20010117/519ef986/attachment.html>

From emile at fenx.com  Sat Jan  6 20:04:22 2001
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2001 17:04:22 -0800
Subject: Should I learn Python or Java?
References: <HEO56.5504$y9.2881293@typhoon.we.rr.com>
Message-ID: <938fbq$98cs2$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>

David,

I'm an independent maintaining 15-20 customers on a regular
basis.  Their needs run from maintenance on legacy systems
through integration projects in major CRM applications.

For me, Python delivers on the promise that MS made for VB
(I can't quote the source directly, but it was a _long_ time
ago in a trade rag): "One day, a consultant will walk into
your office, connect a laptop to your network, and in a day,
integrate your legacy applications with Excel, E-mail, Word
and Access using VB as the glue that holds it together."
(OK, I'm not good at quotes ;-)

For me, VB never quite lived up to that image.  Python, so
far, has yet to fail to live up to it.

Download python, work through the tutorial, ask questions in
the group, and enjoy.

--

Emile van Sebille
emile at fenx.com
-------------------


"Charlotte Williams" <charlottwilliams at mediaone.net> wrote
in message news:HEO56.5504$y9.2881293 at typhoon.we.rr.com...
> Hello,
>
>     I am a Visual Basic programmer who wants to increase
his knowledge of
> programming languages.  Now that the curses, boos, and
barrage of rotten
> fruit are out of the way, I would like to ask this group a
few questions
> :-) ...
>
> I notice that there is a lot of demand for Java
programmers.  The only
> experience I have with an OO language is Smalltalk.   My
questions are:
>
> 1.  Which language would be best to learn, Java or Python.
>From a VB
> standpoint, which has the least learning curve?
> 2.  Is going from object-based to object-oriented
programming that huge a
> jump?   I want to learn an OO language, however I plan on
utilizing it in my
> career.
> 3. Which one is the most "fun" to program in?
> 4.  Is Python multi-platform?  How is it's performance
compared to JAVA in
> an internet situation?  It's reliability?
> 5.  Do you for see Python as becoming a major player like
Java servlets and
> MTS?  Can you see Python demand outstripping Java demand
in 2 years time?
>
> Many of these questions are in response to a post I saw
earlier where Python
> was being touted as the next evolution of OO programming.
It went something
> like...
> C --> C++ --> Java --> Python.
>
> I'm really interested in hearing from VB programmers that
decided to jump
> into one or both of the languages,  has pretty good
knowledge (enough to get
> a Java or Python job) and the headaches and experiences
they had learning
> about them.  Do you need a formal CS education to grasp
them?  I tried
> finding information on these two, but the experiences I
always found were C
> or C++ programmers that tried to tackle them.  Some sites
actually belittled
> me as a VB programmer.  Since I have heard such good
things about this
> groups hospitality, I thought I would ask here first.
Thanks.
>
>
> David Williams
>
>
>




From jdries at mail.com  Sat Jan 20 09:15:35 2001
From: jdries at mail.com (Jan Dries)
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 15:15:35 +0100
Subject: pyXML support for XSL tranformations??
References: <rtga6.18098$bb.708443@news1.rdc1.tx.home.com>
Message-ID: <3A699D87.D94BD105@mail.com>

Scott Hathaway wrote:
> 
> Using the Microsoft tools, you can load an XML document, then load and XSL
> or XSLT document into memory and then call nodeTransform to blend the two
> together and then spit it back out.
> 
> Is there a way to do this with pyXML or any other python xml library?

Try PySablot (http://www.gingerall.com/). It's a python wrapper around
the Sablotron XSLT engine, and enables you to do what you want.

Jan



From romberg at smaug.fsl.noaa.gov  Wed Jan 24 17:35:57 2001
From: romberg at smaug.fsl.noaa.gov (Mike Romberg)
Date: 24 Jan 2001 15:35:57 -0700
Subject: python-2.1 function attributes
References: <ul3snm8dfae.fsf@smaug.fsl.noaa.gov> <94n7tu$41c$1@news.udel.edu>
Message-ID: <ul3r91sbmsy.fsf@smaug.fsl.noaa.gov>

>>>>> " " == Terry Reedy <tjreedy at udel.edu> writes:

[snip]

     > Not having read the PEP, I wondered 'what is this good for?'
     > when I read GvR's announcement.  The PEP gives three possible
     > uses.  Is your use something different?  (that you can tell
     > us?)

  We are developing software to assist weather forecasters in
generating gridded forecasts.  We use an embeded python interpreter to
allow them to define functions which relate various weather paramaters
to each other.  For example there is a simple rule which states that
the dewpoint should never be higher than the temperature.  So a simple
function could be entered:

def dewpointChecker(temperature, dewpoint):
    if dewpoint < temperature:
        return temperature
    return dewpoint

  We currently use the neat intospection features of python (the
co_argcount and co_varnames attributes) to find the names of the
arguments.  It is not so easy to provide a slick method to specify
what paramater this function applies to.  The function name could be
used.  But, we would like to have multiple functions per paramater.
Adding an attribute nicely solves this problem for us:

def dewpointChecker(temperature, dewpoint):
    # Sample attibute syntax
    { 'paramater' : 'dewpoint' }
    if dewpoint < temperature:
        return temperature
    return dewpoint

  Now an engine can be built which has a list of functions.  When some
paramater changes it can run each of the functions it needs to by
first looking at the 'paramater' attribute.  All functions which match
the paramater are run with the other arguments looked up by examining
the argument list.

  This is probably just about as clear as dirt :).  But the function
attributes really do make life easier for us.

Mike (romberg at fsl.noaa.gov)







From mwh21 at cam.ac.uk  Tue Jan 30 12:26:18 2001
From: mwh21 at cam.ac.uk (Michael Hudson)
Date: 30 Jan 2001 17:26:18 +0000
Subject: Sets in Python
References: <956hcd$qef$1@tyfon.itea.ntnu.no>
Message-ID: <m3vgqx6jet.fsf@atrus.jesus.cam.ac.uk>

"Magnus Lie Hetland" <mlh at idi.ntnu.no> writes:

> I quite often use dictionaries as sets in Python... But it doesn't really
> seem pretty enough to me... Some arbitrariness (as with
> "while 1: ... break" I still don't like that one...) about using what
> to me is a value as a key, and assigning it some value -- like 1,
> for instance... And then checking it with has_key, and removing
> it with del...
> 
> Isn't there a better (more beautiful) way of doing this?

This has gone round on python-dev in the last few weeks and the end
conclusion was "no".

> And if one was to write a small wrapper of some kind --
> is there any way to implement "x in s" without a linear search?
> Or does the "in" operator always loop from 0 and up?
> (It would certainly be nice to be able to override it...)

Tried __contains__?

Cheers,
M.

-- 
  I saw `cout' being shifted "Hello world" times to the left and
  stopped right there.                                -- Steve Gonedes


From moshez at zadka.site.co.il  Sat Jan 13 04:41:33 2001
From: moshez at zadka.site.co.il (Moshe Zadka)
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 11:41:33 +0200 (IST)
Subject: Web devel with python. Whats the best route?
In-Reply-To: <93mjjj0fch@news1.newsguy.com>
References: <93mjjj0fch@news1.newsguy.com>, <93hfp1013sm@news2.newsguy.com>, <93cqvi0191h@news1.newsguy.com> <mailman.978910629.6814.python-list@python.org> <mailman.978975978.19612.python-list@python.org> <spenrose-E755EB.22423209012001@news.dnai.com> <mailman.979287866.16015.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <20010113094133.C574BA828@darjeeling.zadka.site.co.il>

On Fri, 12 Jan 2001, "Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote:

> > Equivalents for C/C++/Perl/Java would be appreciated <wink>
> 
> C++ => memory management framework (most likely reference
>         counted, of course); this one's too easy:-).

Hah! In *my* C++ they weren't refcounted: they were guarded. Weird
guard/deleters framework which I implemented in a couple of hours,
and everyone had a lot of fun using and extending. 

c++-war-stories-are-always-fun-ly y'rs, Z.
-- 
Moshe Zadka <sig at zadka.site.co.il>
This is a signature anti-virus. 
Please stop the spread of signature viruses!



From richard4322 at my-deja.com  Wed Jan  3 15:26:53 2001
From: richard4322 at my-deja.com (richard4322 at my-deja.com)
Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 20:26:53 GMT
Subject: Tkinter double-click interval
Message-ID: <9301u4$mdr$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

Is it possible to adjust the double-click time
interval in a Tkinter application?

Richard


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From aahz at panix.com  Tue Jan 30 12:24:56 2001
From: aahz at panix.com (Aahz Maruch)
Date: 30 Jan 2001 09:24:56 -0800
Subject: how to store great array?
References: <953sps$nta$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <956td8$bsh$1@panix6.panix.com>

In article <953sps$nta$1 at nnrp1.deja.com>,  <paulus132 at my-deja.com> wrote:
>
>For 2 mio Documents, I have a "Year" field (4 characters) associated
>with each of them. I try to store this in Python, to report him over
>other records.
>
>It is possible ? Wich is the faster method ?

You might want to use a DBMS instead.
-- 
                      --- Aahz (Copyright 2001 by aahz at pobox.com)

Androgynous poly kinky vanilla queer het    <*>     http://www.rahul.net/aahz/
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6

"I heard Commentary and Dissent had merged and formed Dysentary."


From not.this at seebelow.org  Tue Jan 30 13:30:51 2001
From: not.this at seebelow.org (Grant Griffin)
Date: 30 Jan 2001 10:30:51 -0800
Subject: curly-brace-aphobic?
References: <3A74EBD6.3C87FD15@seebelow.org> <slrn97a9fu.7sf.clgonsal@keeshah.penguinpowered.com> <3A757FBE.E54C5ECD@seebelow.org> <mailman.980789494.4239.python-list@python.org> <slrn97c6bs.bjo.scarblac@pino.selwerd.nl> <mailman.980870616.378.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <95718r018s8@drn.newsguy.com>

In article <mailman.980870616.378.python-list at python.org>, D-Man says...
>
...
>I still maintain my postiion that a list is really a special case of a
>dictionary, on a theoretical level.

I guess I'm not much of a theoretician, but I disagree.  A list does something
_less_ than a dictionary (in that its indexing value is limited in terms of both
type and value), but it also does something _more_ than a dictionary in that it
has a sequence.  FWIW, here's a little hierarchy:

indexers
   sequences
      mutable
         lists
      immutable
         tuples
         strings
   dictionaries

Of course, one could create other hierarchies:

mutable
   lists
   dictionaries
immutable
   strings
   tuples

or even:

containers
   arrays
      mutable
         lists
      immutable
          tuples
          strings
   dictionaries

This last one is how I tend to think of it.  I _think of_ tuples as a special
case of lists: "tuples are read-only lists".  Likewise, one can _think of_
strings as special cases of lists: "strings are imutable lists that can contain
only characters".

But if we try to generalize a relationship between dictionaries and lists, we
find that we can make neither a special case of the other--at least without
stretching it pretty far.

Given the "indexers" hierarchy at top, the Python rule seems to be "All indexers
are indexed using square braces".  Those who find Python's bracing "consistent"
evidently are evaluating "consistency" in terms of this rule.

However, the rule that I seem to want to apply is "All indexers are indexed
using the style of brace used to bind them."  (If a certain style of brace is
good enough to bind a variable, why isn't it good enough to _access_ a
variable?)  That being said, it may not be possible (and it certainly isn't
desirable) to index strings and tuples using this rule.

But I see no reason why curly braces could not be used for this purpose.

explict-is-better-than-implicit-ly y'rs,

=g2
p.s.  Just for the record, I'm not recommending any change to Python--because
the needs of backwards compatibility would undoubtedly lead to the dreaded "more
than one way to do it" <wink>. I was just asking a question.  Thanks to all for
the many kind answers.

_____________________________________________________________________

Grant R. Griffin                                       g2 at dspguru.com
Publisher of dspGuru                           http://www.dspguru.com
Iowegian International Corporation            http://www.iowegian.com



From amk at mira.erols.com  Thu Jan 25 21:33:00 2001
From: amk at mira.erols.com (A.M. Kuchling)
Date: 26 Jan 2001 02:33:00 GMT
Subject: I mean *setup.py* ! ... (more questions)[Re: libraries=['m'] inconfig.py [Re: Python 2.1 alpha 1 released!]]
References: <mailman.980277285.14781.python-list@python.org> <mailman.980419470.4109.python-list@python.org> <94p66v$e55qc$1@ID-59885.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <slrn971p93.gs.amk@mira.erols.com>

On Thu, 25 Jan 2001 13:29:18 +0100, 
	Thomas Heller <thomas.heller at ion-tof.com> wrote:
>Andrew and Guido seem to have zero interest in supporting
>platforms other than linux/unix.

Not true.  I just have no other platforms to test on (well, I have
Solaris, but that isn't much of a stretch), and therefore am dependent
on bug reports, and hopefully patches, to fix problems on new
platforms.  If making setup.py work proves impossible, which can only
really be judged from user feedback, then PEP 229 could be made
optional or backed out in future 2.1 alphas or betas.

--amk


From claird at starbase.neosoft.com  Thu Jan 25 17:33:58 2001
From: claird at starbase.neosoft.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: 25 Jan 2001 16:33:58 -0600
Subject: Tkinter vs wxPython: your opinions?
References: <3A6F899F.E164F628@home.com> <94ogkm$ggb$2@news1.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <A21D2AFCDFF141F0.D11A57A59504D57C.5E533A9C145D86F0@lp.airnews.net>

In article <94ogkm$ggb$2 at news1.xs4all.nl>,
Boudewijn Rempt <boud at rempt.xs4all.nl> wrote:
>Rick Lee <rwklee at home.com> wrote:
>> It has to be cross platform between Linux and Windows, so it  seems that
>> my choices are Tkinter and wxPython.
>
>PyQt is also crossplatform between Linux and Windows.
>
>> Your experience, thoughts, opinion, on the relative merits and pitfalls
>> of each?
>
>> My particular case:  A GUI that has 5 windows max., will incorporate a
>> xmlrpc client, will have a python object browser, being able to build
>> data entry screens on the fly from a description of an object's
>> attributes, programmer not familiar with either toolkit.
>
>The dynamic building of a data-entry form based on a description
>has already been done before - with PyQt. See the kuragui part
>of kura: http://www.xs4all.nl/~bsarempt/linguistics.
			.
			.
			.
I second that suggestion:  look at what PyQt has to offer.
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at NeoSoft.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://starbase.neosoft.com/~claird/home.html


From entropiamax at jazzfree.com  Fri Jan 26 06:16:33 2001
From: entropiamax at jazzfree.com (entropia)
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 12:16:33 +0100
Subject: Python vs Ruby
References: <94mdkd$222e$1@news.adamastor.ac.za> <p6qwvbjtr97.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <3A715C90.CB809F02@jazzfree.com>

Some time ago I tested Ruby vs Python:
I made a program that calculates a fibonacci numbers.
Python was as double as fast (Win95). Maybe that is because
in Ruby a number is a class, in Python not.

Martin von Loewis escribi?:

> "James Lockley" <jpl at global.co.za> writes:
>
> > Just been reading a "Ruby centric" comparison of Ruby vs Python on:
> > http://helium.ruby-lang.org/en/compar.html
> >
> > would be interested to hear the Pythonista view....
>
> As far as I can tell, all of them are facts, not opinions, which is a
> good thing. Most of them are correct, which is also a good think.
>
> Incorrect is the claim
>   Ruby has "real" garbage collector, not ref-counting.
>
> While this is correct also, it implies that Python has ref-counting
> and no "real" garbage collector, which is not true for Python 2.0.
>
> The implication of the conclusion
> #  Not subject to memory leaks like ref-counting is.
>
> is likewise incorrect - in Python 2.0, the memory leaks of reference
> counting disappear also. The implication from the other conclusion
> #  No INCREF, DECREF are required for extensions.
> is still correct - INCREF, DECREF are required for extensions.
> I don't know how exactly GC works in Ruby - it is likely that
> it suffers from things that people would consider as drawbacks, though.
>
> #  Ruby is often faster than Python.
> That I would not believe without proof.
>
> Regards,
> Martin
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list




From bram at sara.nl  Tue Jan  2 07:41:07 2001
From: bram at sara.nl (Bram Stolk)
Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2001 13:41:07 +0100
Subject: using 'global' across source files.
Message-ID: <3A51CC63.A90A0E0B@sara.nl>

Hello,


Using the 'global' keyword, I can have my functions
access global variables, like:

  # try.py
  val=100

  def change_val() :
    global val
    val = 2*val

  change_val()
  print val

However, this scheme falls apart if I split up this
code in two files, one containing the global, and
one containing the func.

  # prog.py

  from funcs import *

  val = 100

  change_val()
  print val

  # funcs.py

  def change_val() :
    global val
    val = val * 2

When running I get an error:

bram at gazoo> python -i prog.py
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "prog.py", line 7, in ?
    change_val()
  File "funcs.py", line 5, in change_val
    val = val * 2
NameError: There is no variable named 'val'


Why?
And how can I fix this?
I've tried stuff like __main__.val, but
that is not accepted by python.

thx,
 
   Bram Stolk


-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Bram Stolk, VR Specialist.
 SARA Academic Computing Services Amsterdam, PO Box 94613, 1090 GP  AMSTERDAM
 email: bram at sara.nl   Phone +31-20-5923059  Fax +31-20-6683167

 "I heard if you play the NT-4.0-CD backwards, you get a satanic message."
 "Thats nothing, if you play it forward, it installs NT-4.0"
------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From fuess at att.net  Tue Jan 30 09:25:31 2001
From: fuess at att.net (David A. Fuess)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 14:25:31 GMT
Subject: Anyone get python on win98??
References: <WXZc6.8032$KP3.2632221@news3.rdc1.on.home.com>
Message-ID: <qM12OhyoHjSIXL0jHySgILdorV5X@4ax.com>

If I'm running Pythonwin, I usually use the save and execute button.
Normally, except for testing, I do not run scripts under the IDE, I
simply double click them on the desktop or directory. If I need to
preserve output I put in a "Press enter to exit" to give me a chance
to view the output before the command window vanishes.

Dave

"shaka" <fabrice.n at home.com> wrote:

>
>
>Ok, I need some help here.  I just download python on my computer.
>I installed it to     C:\programming\python20
>
>I know how to use the interactive mode.  And when write a script I usually
>run it from the editor(idle) by clicking on "run script".
>
>But when I try to run the script using the interpreter, it doesn't work.
>What I do is to type the name of the script.py in the interactive mode. It
>always give me an error message like:
>                        Traceback (most recent call last):
>                          File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>                        NameError: There is no variable named 'hello'
>
>Is the interpreter suppose to be in interactive mode everytime?
>
>If you have no idea of what I am talking about, can you just describe me how
>you usually run your script.
>
>
>
>



From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Jan 30 02:50:51 2001
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 02:50:51 -0500
Subject: function parameters again
References: <4ond6.158$pT.3554@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu> <Kynd6.9804$Qb7.1498291@newsb.telia.net>
Message-ID: <3A76725B.3F21E0FA@engcorp.com>

Fredrik Lundh wrote:
> 
> it is passed by reference.  but that doesn't help you here --
> integer objects cannot be modified, and assignment doesn't
> do what you think it does.

Heh heh... I'm glad I never saw a posting like this when
I was a newbie:

 'In Python, you can't change a number you store in a 
  variable, and assignment doesn't work.'

(As read with a heavy dose of newbie-ness in mind. :-)


From dsh8290 at rit.edu  Fri Jan 19 12:51:55 2001
From: dsh8290 at rit.edu (D-Man)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 12:51:55 -0500
Subject: Can Python clear a DOS screen?
In-Reply-To: <41K96.7179$Qb7.1063615@newsb.telia.net>; from fredrik@effbot.org on Thu, Jan 18, 2001 at 10:22:56PM +0000
References: <mailman.979855434.16210.python-list@python.org> <41K96.7179$Qb7.1063615@newsb.telia.net>
Message-ID: <20010119125155.G4478@harmony.cs.rit.edu>

On Thu, Jan 18, 2001 at 10:22:56PM +0000, Fredrik Lundh wrote:
| Dan Rolander wrote:
| > I've got a Python script that writes to a DOS console. Is it possible to
| > have the script clear the screen?
| 
|     os.system("cls")
| 
| (it's as stupid as it looks, but it works everywhere.

If by "everywhere" you mean "everywhere that is using DOS", then yes.
If the interpreter picks up my aliases/functions from bash (in Linux,
Solaris, etc) then it will work (I prefer typing "cls" instead of
"clear").


If removing text from the visible screen is your goal the following
(albeit stupid) loop can do it as well


for i in xrange( 500 ) :
	print


-D




From cfelling at iae.nl  Tue Jan 23 18:54:09 2001
From: cfelling at iae.nl (Carel Fellinger)
Date: 24 Jan 2001 00:54:09 +0100
Subject: observer design pattern
References: <94i340$4er$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <3A6CA19C.89A6DFB2@attglobal.net> <mailman.980284947.19965.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <94l5j1$4ku$1@animus.fel.iae.nl>

D-Man <dsh8290 at rit.edu> wrote:
> On Mon, Jan 22, 2001 at 04:09:48PM -0500, Roland Schlenker wrote:
...
> | class Observer:
> |     def __init__(self):
> |         pass
> |     def update(self, theChangedSubject):
> |         pass
> [snip]

> Since Python is dynamically typed, this Observer class (or interface,
> as it should be in Java) is unnecessary since it doesn't do anything.
> It may, however, improve readability when the concrete subclass
> inherits from it.  Though maybe that just belongs in a docstring or
> comment.

Or you could give it more body like in:

class Observer:
    def __init__(self, observed, View):
	observed.attach(self, View)

    def update(self, view):
	pass

def transparantView(observed):
    return observed

class Observed:
    def __init__(self):
        self.observerList = []

    def attach(self, observer, View=transparantView):
        self.observerList.append((observer, View))

    def detach(self, observer, View=transparantView):
        self.observerList.remove((observer, View))

    def notify(self):
        for observer, View in self.observerList:
            observer.update(View(self))



#### Clock Example
if __name__ == "__main__":
    
    import time
    
                
    class ClockTimer(Observed):
        def __init__(self):
            Observed.__init__(self)
            self.localTime = time.localtime(time.time())

        def tick(self):
            while 1:
                time.sleep(1)
                self.localTime = time.localtime(time.time())
                self.notify()

    
    class ClockView:
        def __init__(self, observed):
            self.localTime = observed.localTime

        def getHour(self):
            return self.localTime[3]

        def getMinute(self):
            return self.localTime[4]

        def getSecond(self):
            return self.localTime[5]

            
    class DigitalClock(Observer):
        def __init__(self, observed, view=ClockView):
            Observer.__init__(self, observed, view)

        def update(self, view):
            print ('\rThe time is %02i:%02i:%02i' % (view.getHour(),
                                                     view.getMinute(),
                                                     view.getSecond())),
    
    timer = ClockTimer()
    digitalClock = DigitalClock(timer)
    timer.tick()
-- 
groetjes, carel


From neilh at scintilla.org  Sat Jan 20 06:46:03 2001
From: neilh at scintilla.org (Neil Hodgson)
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 11:46:03 GMT
Subject: Tabbing/Spaces
References: <B68E060D.901B%bobhicks@adelphia.net> <mtzogn9rpx.fsf@astron.berkeley.edu> <ivcZcLAtwLa6Ew2r@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <mtu26v9iwm.fsf@astron.berkeley.edu> <slrn96ipbi.oul.quinn@groat.ugcs.caltech.edu> <slrn96iq7n.r8o.grey@teleute.dmiyu.org>
Message-ID: <%Tea6.72454$xW4.562989@news-server.bigpond.net.au>

Steve Lamb:
> On 20 Jan 2001 10:16:18 GMT, Quinn Dunkan <quinn at groat.ugcs.caltech.edu>
wrote:
> >Unless you use proportional fonts.
>
>     Who codes in proportional?

   I do. It probably means I'll never get to join the PSU.

   Even wrote an editor to ensure I can always use a collection of
proportional fonts to display source.

   Neil





From jurgen.defurne at philips.com  Tue Jan 23 06:28:33 2001
From: jurgen.defurne at philips.com (jurgen.defurne at philips.com)
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 12:28:33 +0100
Subject: os.system easy question
Message-ID: <0056900015355874000002L042*@MHS>

---------------------- Forwarded by Jurgen Defurne/BRG/CE/PHILIPS on 23/01/2001 12:17 ---------------------------


Jurgen Defurne
23/01/2001 12:15
To:	huwdotlynes at ic.ac.uk@SMTP 
cc:	 
Subject:	Re: os.system easy question  
Classification:	Unclassified


First, try to run your program 'program' manually over your file.
This should be debugged first.

If you want to start several versions of 'program' at once then
you should use os.fork and os.exec.

import os

for filename in list_of_files:
	rv = os.fork()
	if rv = 0:
		# We are in the child process
		os.execl("program", filename)

I recommend not only studying the os modules, but
also the manual pages about fork and exec.

Jurgen
	



huwdotlynes at ic.ac.uk@SMTP at python.org on 23/01/2001 11:56:09
Please respond to huwdotlynes at ic.ac.uk@SMTP 
Sent by:	python-list-admin at python.org
To:	python-list at python.org@SMTP
cc:	 
Subject:	os.system easy question
Classification:	

Hi all,

I'm writing a script that will run an external program over
a list of files such that:

os.system("program %s" % filename)

which would be fine if the program exited after running,
however it doesn't. So the script stops when program is run
for the first time. So the question is how to kill the
external program after it has run. Or alternatively how to
run an external program in such a way that the script will
not halt.

This is running on linux BTW.

Thanks in advance,
Huw Lynes

To reply you know what "dot" should really be.
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list







From gradha at iname.com  Sat Jan 13 09:57:20 2001
From: gradha at iname.com (gradha at iname.com)
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 15:57:20 +0100
Subject: Strange variable scope... is this right?
Message-ID: <gcqp39.jkk.ln@127.0.0.1>

Hi.

In another attempt to DTW (Dominate The World), I wrote an obfuscated loop
just to see the scope behaviour of Python:

f = ["row", "cow", "arrow"]
for f in f:
	print f
	for f in range (len (f)):
		print f

This prints:

row
0
1
2
cow
0
1
2
arrow
0
1
2
3
4

I expected python to bark at me like C would, but from what I read in the
tutorials, this seems to be one of those variable scope issues, right?
AFAICS, python will create a different variable scope at both for's,
hence the possibility to reuse the variable name f, since it means a
different thing at each scope, being unavailable from outside it's scope.

Is this a correct deduction? Is this related with the need to declare in
a function global variables so that if they are modified, the modifications
will be seen outside?

If this is right, I would understand that python duplicates globals (and
local variables if they exist) are duplicated at _each_ new scope. Isn't
this too time consuming? How is this possible?

-- 

 Grzegorz Adam Hankiewicz   gradha at iname.com - http://gradha.infierno.org
 Other web pages:  http://glub.ehu.es/  -  http://welcome.to/gogosoftware/


From emile at fenx.com  Sat Jan 20 22:14:45 2001
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 19:14:45 -0800
Subject: Random and whrandom
References: <94bj03$59v$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <3a6a3540.1976549@news.xo.com>
Message-ID: <94dk8s$c8h4f$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>

Could you post the code?  I've heard that said about
Wichman-Hill, but I don't see it in this, eg:

import random

freq = {}

for i in xrange(36000):
    d1 = random.randrange(0, 6)
    d2 = random.randrange(0, 6)
    x = freq.get((d1, d2), 0)
    freq[(d1, d2)] = x + 1

results = freq.items()
results.sort()

print '\n'.join(map(str, results))

I ran this several times, and without doing the math on the
results, it certainly appears sufficiently random.

--

Emile van Sebille
emile at fenx.com
-------------------


<bogus at bogus.net> wrote in message
news:3a6a3540.1976549 at news.xo.com...
> The whrandom algorithm may not generate very good random
numbers. I
> created a pair of dice objects and rolled them 10,000
times, there
> seems to be a bias against rolling the same number on both
dice.
>
> M
>
> Marshall A




From infotechsys at pivot.net  Sun Jan 28 15:44:55 2001
From: infotechsys at pivot.net (Wayne)
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 15:44:55 -0500
Subject: Tkinter -- visibility
Message-ID: <3A7484C6.CAAF2E6A@pivot.net>

Hello,
What I'm trying to do is manage the visibility of various
Frame widget that happen to be modules -- *.py.
I have three files named  Cntrl.py,  A.py, B.py  B.py.
When the user clicks a button I want to make that form visible.
In the Cntrl.py I have this
class Cntrl(A,B,C):
           def __init__(self, master,flag)
                   self.master = master
                   self.flag = flag
                  A__init__(self, self.master, flag)
                  B__init__(self, self.master, flag)
                  C__init__(self, self.master, flag)
def main(flag):
         root = Tk()
         aCntrl = Cntrl(root,flag)
         root.mainloop
if __name__ == "__main__"
        flag = 1
       main(flag)

The flag is used to let the other modules know that we
started from the Cntrl vs. testing each individual module.

Each of the modules, A,B, and C look somthing like  this-

class A:
         def __init__(self, master, flag):

                code to define the GUI.

                 if flag:
                     main(master,flag)

def main(master, flag)
        aA = A(master, flag)
         master.mainloop()

if __name__ == "__main__"
    root = Tk()
    flag = 0
    main(root,flag)

I use the place manager, and have looked at the method "place_forget".
>From what I gather all the widgets have to be visible at once.
Can somebody give be a hand here?
TIA
Wayne




From embed at NO_SPAM_PLEASE.geocities.com  Thu Jan  4 14:58:12 2001
From: embed at NO_SPAM_PLEASE.geocities.com (Warren Postma)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 14:58:12 -0500
Subject: Py_AddPendingCall can't signal background threads!!!
References: <P9K46.13336$t3.31020@tor-nn1.netcom.ca> <EmK46.3488$Qb7.431195@newsb.telia.net>
Message-ID: <TC456.137$Oe.1300@tor-nn1.netcom.ca>

"Fredrik Lundh" <fredrik at effbot.org> wrote:
> something like this might work:
>
> static int
> getoutofhere(void *unused)
> {
>     PyErr_SetNone(PyExc_KeyboardInterrupt);
>     return -1;
> }
>
> Py_AddPendingCall(getoutofhere, NULL);
>

Thanks, Fredrik. That would work except that the main thread is not the one
executing the user-provided code. Instead, there are background threads
doing that.

I noticed that Py_MakePendingCalls() doesn't do anything to help us here,
because you can't signal a background thread and tell it to stop.

What would we do if we were in the main thread, and wanted to kill a
background thread?

I suppose I could actually have a Keyboard-Interrupt-Signal hack happen in
Py_MakePendingCalls() to handle if a background thread was being told to
"die", but thus far i have avoided making changes to my own embedded python
1.5.2 that would make it somehow incompatible with a stock Python system.

However it appears that truly signalling a thread is not allowed in Python.

Warren





From fredrik at effbot.org  Fri Jan  5 11:25:03 2001
From: fredrik at effbot.org (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 16:25:03 GMT
Subject: How to DECREF an Python object to return?
References: <934qg0$l07$1@news1.kornet.net> <Nem56.3856$Qb7.504323@newsb.telia.net>
Message-ID: <zzm56.3860$Qb7.505102@newsb.telia.net>

</F> wrote:
>     result = PyBuildValue("OO", tuple, othertuple);
>
>     Py_DECREF(tuple);
>     Py_DECREF(othertuple);
>
>     return result;

looks like someone used the time machine again:
just discovered that "N" does the same thing as
"O", except for incrementing the reference count.

in other words, the above code fragment is better
written as:

     return PyBuildValue("NN", tuple, othertuple);

Cheers /F




From peter at engcorp.com  Sun Jan 14 01:22:58 2001
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 01:22:58 -0500
Subject: Python language suggestion
References: <93l4ve$no3$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <20010113154813.2F5A5A828@darjeeling.zadka.site.co.il> <mailman.979428692.14432.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3A6145C2.F012DCA0@engcorp.com>

Chris Ryland wrote:
> 
> Why doesn't the attribute reference (primary "." identifier) work for any
> dictionary-like object?
> 
> E.g., why doesn't
> 
> f = {'a': 1, 'b': 2}
> print f.a
> 
> work while
> 
> f['a']
> 
> does? (I mean from a language design standpoint, not why doesn't it work
> currently.)

IMHO, your whole suggestion about x.'name' being treated 
as x.name is ill-conceived.

In the specific case you identify above, what do you 
intend to do about the following?

>>> f = { 'a' : 5, 'b' : 6 }
>>> a = 'b'
>>> f['a']
5
>>> f[a]
6
>>> f.a
5? 6? ??? help!!

That is, which should f.a return here, 5 or 6?  Why?
The point is, it's not intuitive, and is definitely
going to cause trouble for newbies, let alone 
experienced programmers.  This is a sure sign of a
Bad Idea.  Let it go.


From emile at fenx.com  Sat Jan  6 15:20:10 2001
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2001 12:20:10 -0800
Subject: How to store the contents of a file into a list?
References: <3a576f75.41616667@news.skynet.be>
Message-ID: <937umv$9cmfq$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>

As you read lines from your file, each line is returned as a
list element.  You still need to parse the individual lines
into fields:

>>> l1 = ['rec11,rec12,rec13','rec21,rec22,rec23']
>>> [x.split(',') for x in l1]
[['rec11', 'rec12', 'rec13'], ['rec21', 'rec22', 'rec23']]
>>>

HTH

--

Emile van Sebille
emile at fenx.com
-------------------


"Daniel" <Daniel.Kinnaer at AdValvas.be> wrote in message
news:3a576f75.41616667 at news.skynet.be...
>
> Hi guys. As a newbie exercise, I've been trying the
following :
>
> l1 = []
> l2 = ['rec11','rec12','rec13']
> l3 = ['rec21','rec22','rec23']
> l1.append(l2)
> l1.append(l3)
>
> l1 now is [['rec11', 'rec12', 'rec13'], ['rec21', 'rec22',
'rec23']]
>
> I've been trying to do the same when reading these records
from a file
> (The file contains 2 lines :
> rec11,rec12,rec13
> rec21,rec22,rec23)
>
> What needs to be done to obtain the same l1 as above? I've
been trying
> various ways but my l1 always reads ['rec11, rec12,
rec13', 'rec21,
> rec22, rec23'] instead of [['rec11', 'rec12', 'rec13'],
['rec21',
> 'rec22', 'rec23']].  What am I doing wrong?  All help
greatly
> appreciated.
>
> Thanks
>
> Daniel




From amk at mira.erols.com  Thu Jan  4 18:36:12 2001
From: amk at mira.erols.com (A.M. Kuchling)
Date: 4 Jan 2001 23:36:12 GMT
Subject: AMK's ZODB package on Win32
References: <mailman.978625505.30132.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrn95a30u.hp.amk@207-172-36-136.s136.tnt6.ann.va.dialup.rcn.com>

On Thu, 04 Jan 2001 16:24:37 GMT, 
	andres.corrada <andres.corrada at mpingo.com> wrote:
>Can Kuchling's ZODB package be used under Win32? Does someone have
>experience doing this?

The ZODB code should work fine, but I have no access to a Windows box
and can't compile it for Windows; perhaps you could extract the
compiled code from the Zope distribution for Windows.

--amk


From kern at myrddin.caltech.edu  Mon Jan 29 02:54:41 2001
From: kern at myrddin.caltech.edu (Robert Kern)
Date: 29 Jan 2001 07:54:41 GMT
Subject: ANN: clifford.py 0.6
References: <952pv7$4do@gap.cco.caltech.edu>
    <mailman.980745634.17798.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9537k1$94e@gap.cco.caltech.edu>

In article <mailman.980745634.17798.python-list at python.org>,
	Issac Trotts <trotts at mit.edu> writes:
> Cool, so do you know if anyone is working on a symbolic 
> package for Clifford/Geometric Algebra (other than me)?

In anything related to Python, no. There is a package for Maple
available from the Cambridge GA page. . And I've seen an ad from 
the (now-defunct?) MACSYMA people about a commercial MACSYMA package.

So what's your approach? What framework are you working in? PySymbolic?
I've had a hankering to try to replicate the MACSYMA work in Maxima,
but I haven't the time or expertise to do so.

> Issac

--
Robert Kern
kern at caltech.edu

"In the fields of hell where the grass grows high
 Are the graves of dreams allowed to die."
  -- Richard Harter


From scarblac at pino.selwerd.nl  Mon Jan 22 08:02:20 2001
From: scarblac at pino.selwerd.nl (Remco Gerlich)
Date: 22 Jan 2001 13:02:20 GMT
Subject: creating variable names by adding 2 strings?
References: <3A6BAA32.370A2C00@ntlworld.com>
Message-ID: <slrn96obgm.s7o.scarblac@pino.selwerd.nl>

Lee <lee.reilly at ntlworld.com> wrote in comp.lang.python:
> This is my first post here. I've got a problem, which I can find any
> solutions for using my books or docs on the WWW. I would really
> appreciate it if someone could tell me whether the following is
> possible...
> 
> I'm creating variables in but I am having trouble creating them when
> they're *named* using other variables. Here's an example;
> 
> while (p!=0):
>         p+`p`= string.replace(component[control], ",", "")
>         # e.g. I want 'p1 = string.replace.blah...'
>         p=p-1
>         control=control+1
> 
> ==> SyntaxError: can't assign to operator :(
> 
> I've tried various things but I cannot find a solution. I've got a nasty
> feeling that it's not possible...

It's possible, but rather ugly. When you want to use the variables later,
you don't know what they're called! You'll have to compute their names and
do strange tricks once more.

Lists and dictionaries were invented for this sort of thing.

pdict = {}
while p != 0:
   pdict[p] = string.replace(component[control], ",", "")
   p = p-1
   control = control+1

print pdict

Or make it an empty list ([]), and append the strings to it.
-- 
Remco Gerlich


From qdlaty at wielun.dhs.org  Sun Jan 21 11:19:02 2001
From: qdlaty at wielun.dhs.org (QdlatY)
Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 17:19:02 +0100
Subject: shadow & crypt
Message-ID: <94f263$pj9$1@sunsite.icm.edu.pl>

Hello!

I tried to use crypt function to encrypt my passwor and it seems to be
different to encrypted password stored in shadow file. (Of course i took
first two chars as second param)

Yours
QdlatY




From reborn at neozone.net  Wed Jan 31 19:18:04 2001
From: reborn at neozone.net (¾Æ¹«)
Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 09:18:04 +0900
Subject: How can I get the information for jpython?
Message-ID: <95a9va$9rk$1@news1.kornet.net>

I'm studying about jpython..
But.. inpormation is too lack for jpython..
Who do you know the site for jpython?
(except www.jpython.org, www.jython.org)




From bww00 at amdahl.com  Mon Jan 15 01:10:31 2001
From: bww00 at amdahl.com (Bryan Webb)
Date: 15 Jan 2001 06:10:31 GMT
Subject: help retrieving / storing info in dictionary or gadfly
Message-ID: <93u48n$65t@dispatch.concentric.net>

Hello,
    I have a dictionary that has records with keys from 1 to 2^128
I can build a list and sort the keys in order, then search thru the list of
sorted keys.
    If the list has 1,2,3,4,5,7,8,9 and I need to search for 6. 6 is not in
the list , so I need the record that is closest to 6 but not greater than 6.
Is there a way to further index the list of keys to do this ?

Could I use GADFLY to do this.


Any ideas and help would be appreciated.

Thanks
bryan Webb




From fredrik at effbot.org  Tue Jan 23 12:50:49 2001
From: fredrik at effbot.org (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 17:50:49 GMT
Subject: How do I know all thrown exceptions of a function?
References: <g3lb49.73s.ln@127.0.0.1> <94d93h$55d$1@troll.powertech.no> <mailman.980059223.25947.python-list@python.org> <Qeya6.7932$AH6.1260668@newsc.telia.net> <3A6B24F0.EA164698@gte.net> <94icr2$6kv$1@animus.fel.iae.nl> <3A6CDBDA.C3120F98@gte.net> <94ipci$afo$1@animus.fel.iae.nl> <3A6CFD8E.BD473DFD@gte.net> <iEab6.8765$Qb7.1233360@newsb.telia.net> <3A6D54CB.2261D535@gte.net> <94jo9u$h45$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <94jt7e01fil@news1.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <Zvjb6.8419$AH6.1356839@newsc.telia.net>

Alex Martelli wrote:
> Given the comp.* context, and the noun-like usage, I suspect
> either [2] or more likely [4] are intended.

might so be, but I still cannot make any sense of his
post.

oh well /F




From erno-news at erno.iki.fi  Wed Jan 24 13:08:02 2001
From: erno-news at erno.iki.fi (Erno Kuusela)
Date: 24 Jan 2001 20:08:02 +0200
Subject: thread
References: <3A6EADD6.11122913@acriter.com> <d7Eb6.97788$y9.18847312@typhoon.we.rr.com>
Message-ID: <kusnm87ri5.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>

In article <d7Eb6.97788$y9.18847312 at typhoon.we.rr.com>, "Pete
Shinners" <shredwheat at mediaone.net> writes:

| "Johan Jonkers" <J.Jonkers at acriter.com> wrote
|| At the company I work we use python 1.5.2 on Solaris. I made a python
|| script on my home computer running linux (same python version btw), but
|| when I tried it at work it couldn't find the thread module. I thought
|| that the thread module was a standard module? Am I wrong in this?

| before python 2.0, the default python compile did not include
| threads. you'll need to ./configure --with-threads

the default compile doesn't include much anything, i think it has just
the modules that will build (without modifications to the library
and/or include paths or specifying which library to use) on all
platforms without errors.

  -- erno


From sholden at holdenweb.com  Mon Jan 15 18:48:01 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 18:48:01 -0500
Subject: SQL-Statement with Python
References: <3A62E224.7AEE805E@students.uni-linz.ac.at> <93ut4q031hd@news1.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <R2M86.5299$J76.42003@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>

"Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:93ut4q031hd at news1.newsguy.com...
> "Juergen Hofer" <juergen.hofer at students.uni-linz.ac.at> wrote in message
> news:3A62E224.7AEE805E at students.uni-linz.ac.at...
> > Hi to all!
> >
> > Is it possible to connect to a M$-Access Database (*.mdb) with Python
> > and make simple SQL-Queries and import the results into a list?
> > I'm using Python2.0 under Windows98.
>
> Yes, it's pretty easy -- easiest with Microsoft's ADO, driven via
> win32com (part of win32all -- you already have it if you got the
> ActiveState distribution, but even if you started with the standard
> distribution you probably want to add win32all anyway if you work
> with Python under Windows... it has just too many nifty things!-).
>
I might take issue with this (despite my last run-in with the martellibot...
Perhaps I should just do this first [thwack, thwack, thwack]). There, that's
better.

> For example, say you have the usual "NorthWinds" sample database
> available as d:\mssdk\bin\nwind.mdb, and a reasonably late release
> of the MS Data Access Components package (freely downloadable from
> the MS site, also comes with just about any MS development product,
> SDK, Office installation, etc).
>
> import win32com.client
>
> connection = win32com.client.Dispatch("AdoDb.Connection")
> connection.Provider = "Microsoft.Jet.OLEDB.4.0"
> filename = r'd:\\mssdk\\bin\\nwind.mdb'
> connection.Open(filename)
> recordset, result = connection.Execute(
>   "Select FirstName, LastName From Employees Order By LastName")
> rows = recordset.GetRows()
> for first, last in zip(rows[0], rows[1]):
>     print "%s, %s" % (last, first)
>
That's the bit I don't like.  You call the GetRows method, and what does it
return? Columns, mate, that's what. At least to the Python user. Not what I
call intuitive.

> This should emit:
>
> Buchanan, Steven
> Callahan, Laura
> Davolio, Nancy
> Dodsworth, Anne
> Fuller, Andrew
> King, Robert
> Leverling, Janet
> Peacock, Margaret
> Suyama, Michael
>
>
> Of course, you can massage the recordset in a zillion ways,
> specify where the cursor-caching occurs and how, etc, etc,
> just as for any other use of ADO.  You'll find tons of docs,
> info, tutorials, etc, about ADO, though they're often VB
> or VBscript oriented (but pretty easy to read anyway).
>
>
> Alex
>
I'm sure you'll have a great explanation for it, though.  Mark Hammond's was
pretty good.

regards
 Steve




From SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk  Fri Jan 26 12:30:51 2001
From: SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk (Simon Brunning)
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 17:30:51 -0000
Subject: Multiple replacements (was: The fundamentals...)
Message-ID: <31575A892FF6D1118F5800600846864D5B177E@intrepid>

> From:	mspiggie at my-deja.com [SMTP:mspiggie at my-deja.com]
> I have been trying to find a way to use replace() to perform more than
> one replacement within a given file.  For instance, suppose I needed to
> replace ". " with "\n", but also need to replace "!" with "exclamation"
> and "?" with "question".  I have tried several approaches to this, but
> none of my neophyte ideas have produced satisfying results.
 
Some time ago, /F gave me this:

class MultiReplace:
    def __init__(self, replacements, wholeWords=None, caseInsensitive=None):
        self.wholeWords = wholeWords
        self.charMap = None
        self.replacements = replacements
        
        # Assume char to char mapping...
        if not wholeWords:
            charMap = map(chr, range(256))
            for fromVal, toVal in replacements.items():
                if len(fromVal) <> 1 or len(toVal) <> 1:
                    break
                if caseInsensitive:
                    charMap[ord(fromVal.upper())] = toVal
                    charMap[ord(fromVal.lower())] = toVal
                else:
                    charMap[ord(fromVal)] = toVal
            else:
                self.charMap = "".join(charMap)
                return

        # String to string mapping - use a regular expression        
        fromVals = replacements.keys()
        fromVals.sort() # lexical order

        if not wholeWords: # Build re pattern
            rePattern = '|'.join(map(re.escape, fromVals))
        else:
            rePattern = r'\b(' + '|'.join(map(re.escape, fromVals)) + r')\b'
        
        if caseInsensitive: # Compile re
            self.rePattern = re.compile(rePattern, re.I)
        else:
            self.rePattern = re.compile(rePattern)

    def replace(self, string):
        # apply replacement to string
        
        if self.charMap: # Char to char mapping
            return string.translate(self.charMap)

        # String to string mapping        
        return self.rePattern.sub(self.__replaceInMatch, string)
    
    def __replaceInMatch(self, match):
        item = match.group(0)
        return self.replacements.get(item, item)

I have made some changes to it since /F gave it to me, so if it's crap my,
it's my fault. ;-)

Use it like this:

>>>import MultiReplace
>>>replaceDict = {'a': 'b', 'c': 'd'} # From and to values in this
dictionary - strings can be longer than 1 character if you want.
>>>multiReplace = MultiReplace.MultiReplace(replaceDict)
>>>replace('spam')
'spbm'

Cheers,
Simon Brunning
TriSystems Ltd.
sbrunning at trisystems.co.uk
Are you going to come quietly, or do I have to use earplugs? - from The Goon
Show




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From fredrik at effbot.org  Wed Jan 17 13:39:39 2001
From: fredrik at effbot.org (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 18:39:39 GMT
Subject: Tkinter 3000 WCK, fifth preview (was Re: Line Benchmarks - Tkinter vs. wxPython)
References: <91uljk$12as$1@news2.ottawa.cyberus.ca> <wMF36.2800$Qb7.322181@newsb.telia.net> <%Y%56.4330$Qb7.610263@newsb.telia.net>
Message-ID: <LFl96.7295$AH6.1111369@newsc.telia.net>

I wrote:
> I wrote:
> > As some of you know, I've been involved in a commercial UI library
> > called uiToolkit (see www.pythonware.com for more info). Tkinter
> > 3000 is a reimplementation of some uiToolkit concepts, on top of
> > Tkinter (and/or Tk).
> >
> > One such concept is something called the "Widget Construction
> > Kit", which is a small interface that allows you to implement new
> > Tkinter widgets in pure Python.

a new preview is now available from http://tkinter.effbot.org

send comments/questions to me or to the tkinter3000 mailing
list (see the effbot.org site for more info).

Cheers /F




From fabrice.n at home.com  Fri Jan 26 12:10:06 2001
From: fabrice.n at home.com (shaka)
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 17:10:06 GMT
Subject: informal representation of long integers
References: <DZhc6.63$g4.22706@paloalto-snr1.gtei.net>
Message-ID: <Obic6.249657$59.62511426@news3.rdc1.on.home.com>

"Randall Kern" <randy at spoke.net> wrote in message
news:DZhc6.63$g4.22706 at paloalto-snr1.gtei.net...
> Using Python 1.5.2:
>
> >>> str(10L)
> '10L'
> >>> repr(10L)
> '10L'
>
> Just curious why the 'informal' representation of 10L is '10L', rather
than
> '10'.
> -Randy
>
>




From bernhard at abnoba.intevation.de  Wed Jan  3 04:41:58 2001
From: bernhard at abnoba.intevation.de (Bernhard Reiter)
Date: 3 Jan 2001 09:41:58 GMT
Subject: Python Imaging Library and Windows HELP!
References: <cXe46.16108$n%.820749@news20.bellglobal.com>
    <92tb2i$dt5$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <92us56$nhg$1@newsserver.rrzn.uni-hannover.de>

In article <92tb2i$dt5$1 at nnrp1.deja.com>,
	Greg Landrum <glandrum at my-deja.com> writes:
> In article <cXe46.16108$n%.820749 at news20.bellglobal.com>,
>   "Jeffrey Drake" <codebert9 at users.sourceforge.net> wrote:

> There are some instructions on installing PIL under windows at URL:
> http://www.faqts.com/knowledge_base/view.phtml/aid/1696/fid/238
> which may be helpful.

To me it seems to be a bit out of date, because PIL 1.1.1 is out.

> The faqts knowledge base is a very useful resource for those learning
> or using python.

I find it to be unaccurate and incomplete a lot of times.
	Bernhard

-- 
Professional Service around Free Software                (intevation.net)  
The FreeGIS Project                                         (freegis.org)
Association for a Free Informational Infrastructure            (ffii.org)
FSF Europe                                            (www.fsfeurope.org)


From martin.franklin at westerngeco.com  Thu Jan 25 09:19:33 2001
From: martin.franklin at westerngeco.com (Martin Franklin)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 14:19:33 +0000
Subject: smtplib --> receiving emails two times
References: <94paet$9o3$1@news.netcologne.de>
Message-ID: <3A7035F5.4BCA98@westerngeco.com>

Toralf,

You have the To: line in the message body.  This gets  used by the smtp 
server to send the mail twice
so change the following.
                      
msg = ("From: %s\r\nTo: %s\r\nSubject: topic\r\n\r\n"
%(fromaddress,toaddress))


to 

msg = ("From: %s\r\nSubject: topic\r\n\r\n" %(fromaddress))

Martin

Toralf Wittner wrote:
> 
> Hi Python coders,
> 
> I try to collect data from a HTML formular via cgi and email the stuff to a
> certain address. The script is as follows:
> 
> #!/usr/bin/env python
> 
> import cgi, smtplib
> print "Content-Type: text/plain\n"
> 
> form = cgi.FieldStorage()
> keyList = form.keys()
> keyList.sort()
> 
> fromaddress = toaddress = "given_email_address"
> msg = ("From: %s\r\nTo: %s\r\nSubject: topic\r\n\r\n" % (fromaddress,
> toaddress))
> for i in keyList:
>         msg = msg + "%s ____________________ %s\n" % (i, form[i].value)
> 
> server = smtplib.SMTP('given_server_name ')
> server.sendmail(fromaddress, toaddress, msg)
> server.quit()
> 
> This works basically, however all emails are received two times wich is
> annoying at least . I can't see why this happens (the given example in the
> smtplib reference is almost identical to the one above). Also note that
> using a script like the following gives me exactly one email.
> 
> #!/usr/bin/env python
> 
> import smtplib
> 
> fromaddress = toaddress = 'given_email_address'
> msg = ("From: %s\r\nTo: %s\r\n\r\n" % (fromaddress, toaddress))
> msg = msg + "additional_text"
> server = smtplib.SMTP('given_server_name')
> server.set_debuglevel(1)
> server.sendmail(fromaddress, toaddress, msg)
> server.quit()
> 
> (I'm using Python 2.0)
> 
> I appreciate any help concerning this problem. Thank you!
> Kind regards,
> Toralf Wittner
> 
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list



From fredrik at effbot.org  Fri Jan  5 06:14:52 2001
From: fredrik at effbot.org (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 11:14:52 GMT
Subject: Unexpected result for list operator "+="
References: <3A542778.E1BC06E3@bogusaddress.com> <mfW46.227356$U46.7026522@news1.sttls1.wa.home.com> <zv756.231593$U46.7089647@news1.sttls1.wa.home.com> <rnf56.3809$Qb7.492757@newsb.telia.net> <93435m022if@news2.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <M0i56.3822$Qb7.495388@newsb.telia.net>

Alex Martelli wrote:
> > There's no distinction between mutable and immutable objects
> > in Python itself.  An object is immutable only if it doesn't have
> > any methods that allow you to change its content.  Neither you
> > nor Python can do an "ismutable(x)" test.
>
> Isn't there a _convention_ about 'immutability' being the
> prerequisite for usage as a dictionary-key?  It is, of course,
> defined in terms of 'hashability':
>
> >>> d={}
> >>> d[(1,2)]=3
> >>> d[[4,5]]=6
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
> TypeError: unhashable type
> >>>
>
> not in terms of 'mutability'... but it's _meant_ to have
> something to do with mutability, at least in as much as
> the latter affects comparisons, no?

The "at least in as much as" is the important part here; an
object can be mutable (change contents without changing
its identity) but still be used everywhere a "truly immutable"
object can be used -- just make sure that the hash value
doesn't change, and follow the "objects that compare equal
must have the same hash value" rule.

(e.g. objects using internal caches, usage counters, etc)

> I wonder if this convention is clearly documented some-
> where...

imho, most writers tend to mess things up when talking about
the object model.  I've seen several Python introductions that
attempt to hide the details, and then use exercises to show
that it might not work as we just described it...

(that's why I'm working on "the eff-bot guide to Python" in my
copious spare time ;-)

Cheers /F




From cprice404 at my-deja.com  Wed Jan 10 18:22:27 2001
From: cprice404 at my-deja.com (cprice404 at my-deja.com)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 23:22:27 GMT
Subject: DTML/Zope AND Flash
References: <93i5su$kfs$1@news1.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <93iqr9$ob8$1@nnrp1.deja.com>




You should be able to use a dtml document--we've done it on several
occasions.  One problem that I have had in the past is that it seems
that the dtml document can't have any carriage returns in it.  So what
I've had to do on several occasions is use 2 dtml docs... so let's say
that I have a doc1 and doc2 and the flash client makes it's request to
doc1.  Here is an example of what those docs might look like:

doc1:
************************************************
<dtml-call doc2><dtml-var result>
************************************************

doc2:
************************************************
<dtml-call "REQUEST.set('result', '')">
<dtml-in someZQLMethod>
<dtml-call "REQUEST.set('result', result + 'var=value&')">
</dtml-in>
<dtml-call "REQUEST.set('result', result + 'end_of_vars=1'">
************************************************

You will obviously need to muck with the part inside of the dtml-in but
this general structure has worked for us on several occasions.

I think the main problem is that many of the <dtml-call>'s or
<dtml-in>'s that you make in your dtml doc will throw some whitespace
into the output, and as soon as the flash client receives a blank line
it thinks it's reached the end of it's input.

Hope that helps.

Chris




In article <93i5su$kfs$1 at news1.xs4all.nl>,
  "DamageCase" <menno at phreaker.net> wrote:
> Hello all, I have a question regarding the use of flash on a zope server !
> I hope someone can help me out here !
>
> I'm trying to load a simple .txt file into flash, which isn't the
problem of
> course, the problem I have is that I want to make the .txt variable using
> dtml that get's is content from a MySQL database. Simply putting
dtml-var's
> in the .txt file does not work ( how surprising =P )  but Flash does not
> want to read from other format's than txt, so a dtml-document does not
work
> either.
> Does anybody have an solution for this problem ?
>
> friendly regards, Menno
>
>


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From bellman at lysator.liu.se  Tue Jan 30 13:52:10 2001
From: bellman at lysator.liu.se (Thomas Bellman)
Date: 30 Jan 2001 18:52:10 GMT
Subject: Wrapping up a C++ class
References: <954496$ues$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <9546rv01ahd@news2.newsguy.com> <9565q3$nnh$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <Fkxd6.9841$Qb7.1506259@newsb.telia.net>
Message-ID: <9572gq$5s7$1@newsy.ifm.liu.se>

"Fredrik Lundh" <fredrik at effbot.org> writes:

> well, it does strike me as odd that there are C++ programmers
> out there who don't understand C:

It might be odd, in some sense, but it certainly isn't unusual.
There are lots of *C* programmers don't understand C...  Never
mind how many C++ programmers who don't understand C++...


-- 
Thomas Bellman,   Lysator Computer Club,   Link?ping University,  Sweden
"I refuse to have a battle of wits with an   !  bellman @ lysator.liu.se
 unarmed person."                            !  Make Love -- Nicht Wahr!


From eferro at inicia.es  Wed Jan 24 06:57:30 2001
From: eferro at inicia.es (Eduardo Ferro)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 12:57:30 +0100
Subject: Root window pygtk
Message-ID: <94mhtb$qpt$1@talia.mad.ttd.net>

Hi!

I am trying to draw something at the root window with python+gtk, and
i got it, but the problem is that when some window erase a part of the
picture i can`t redraw it becouse i don`t know how to connect a callback
to a exposure o some similar event

Any suggest??
Thnaks in adavance


From abnerstransky at my-deja.com  Wed Jan 24 15:13:25 2001
From: abnerstransky at my-deja.com (abnerstransky at my-deja.com)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 20:13:25 GMT
Subject: windows, python, gtk
Message-ID: <94nd0r$o0v$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

Hey
I'm looking for the gtk toolkit for windows to use with python 2.0 for
windows, and am having trouble finding it. Any ideas?

Thanks
abner


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http://www.deja.com/


From nospam at mega-nerd.com  Tue Jan 30 05:58:43 2001
From: nospam at mega-nerd.com (Erik de Castro Lopo)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 10:58:43 GMT
Subject: Displaying Unicode text in Tkinter Canvas widget
References: <3A75D600.60F7CD0D@mega-nerd.com>
Message-ID: <3A769B29.77C3CE84@mega-nerd.com>

Erik de Castro Lopo wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> I'm writing a little app for helping to learn the Japanese
> Hiragana character set. At the moment I'm displaying GIF
> images of the characters but I would much rather use
> Unicode text.
> 
> I've had a look at the python.org web site and installed Tamito
> Kajiyama's Japanese codecs. I've also installed Tk/Tcl 8.3 and
> recompiled/installed Python 2.0.
> 
> Commands like:
> 
>     print unicode ('abcdefg', 'japanese.iso-2022-jp')
> 
> work without error messages, but I would like to know how
> to display Hiragan characters without making Japanese the
> default encoding.

I'm sorry, I should have mentioned that I'm trying to display
the Hiragana as text in a Tkinter Canvas widget.

Erik
-- 
+----------------------------------------------------------+
  Erik de Castro Lopo  nospam at mega-nerd.com (Yes its valid)
+----------------------------------------------------------+
"The worst thing about productivity tools is that there's 
always something in them that makes you less productive" 
 -- Chris Alfred Dec 15, 1997


From objectmulti at hotmail.com  Mon Jan 15 17:42:26 2001
From: objectmulti at hotmail.com (anand v)
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 17:42:26 
Subject: client/server python examples
Message-ID: <F129b5YI9IJsaJbqJGN00016017@hotmail.com>

Hi,

Could someone please provide some standalone examples
of client and server written in python to communicate
on sockets??? and also it will be very helpful if the server
has some threads also..


Thanks for the help

Anand
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com




From wolfson at midway.uchicago.edu  Thu Jan  4 23:35:52 2001
From: wolfson at midway.uchicago.edu (Ben Wolfson)
Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 04:35:52 GMT
Subject: Fatal Error?
Message-ID: <Iac56.132$x3.1882@uchinews>

There seems to be a bug in in binascii.b2a_base64, at least in
threaded environments.

When I reach the code

    data = StringIO.StringIO()
    fn = getname(file)
    print 'preparing %s' % fn
    mimetools.encode(file, data, 'base64')
    print 'encoded'

in one of my scripts, execution stops with the message:

"""
preparing Aphex Twin - To Cure A Weakling Child.mp3
Fatal Python error: Interpreter not initialized (version mismatch?)

abnormal program termination
"""

However, when I call the encoding from a non-threaded interpreter
session, it encodes just fine.

-- 
Barnabas T. Rumjuggler
I say, an object can move whether or not an "external (male, masculine) 
force" chooses to act upon (rape) it!
 -- David Zacuto


From Sk8yavo at aol.com  Mon Jan 15 11:39:44 2001
From: Sk8yavo at aol.com (Sk8yavo at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 11:39:44 EST
Subject: subsciption
Message-ID: <44.a739969.279481d0@aol.com>

 



From NoSpam at NoSpam.com  Thu Jan 18 20:34:55 2001
From: NoSpam at NoSpam.com (Tom)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 01:34:55 GMT
Subject: Python calls Trace Handler fn within call to PyObject_Str
Message-ID: <3RM96.183472$59.49047774@news3.rdc1.on.home.com>

My C++ module calls the PyObject_Str function, as so:

  PyObject* pPyStr = PyObject_Str( m_pPyObject );  // New Ref

Stepping through the code in my debugger, I see that beneath (or 'within')
this call, Python is calling my trace handler function.  The trace event is
a 'call'.  Is this normal behavior?

I'm using Python 2.0 on Win2K SP1, with VC6 SP4.

Thanks,

Tom.





From rwklee at home.com  Tue Jan 23 18:13:45 2001
From: rwklee at home.com (Rick Lee)
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 23:13:45 GMT
Subject: observer design pattern
References: <94i340$4er$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <3A6CA19C.89A6DFB2@attglobal.net> <3A6D0992.C86D92CD@home.com> <3A6D5BAB.2AB22E36@mail.dvz.fh-koeln.de> <3A6D8E5A.476DE8E7@attglobal.net>
Message-ID: <3A6E1028.1326EA23@home.com>

That's great.  Would you mind posting your examples or sending them to me?  I like
to read the GoF book and understand it in detail, but have not learnt C++.

- Rick

Roland Schlenker wrote:

> Stephan Effelsberg wrote:
> >
> > Rick Lee schrieb:
> >
> > > What Design Patterns book are you referring to?
> >
> > He will most likely refer to the GoF book (Design Patterns, Addison-Wesley)
> > and translated the C++ example into Python.
> > There's no Python-specific pattern book out yet (at least, I don't know any).
>
> Correct, when I read the Gof book, I rewrote many of the examples in the
> Python
> to better understand them.
>
> Roland Schlenker



From erno-news at erno.iki.fi  Wed Jan  3 20:10:05 2001
From: erno-news at erno.iki.fi (Erno Kuusela)
Date: 04 Jan 2001 03:10:05 +0200
Subject: SMB Module
References: <92n1lh02evv@drn.newsguy.com> <slrn94vpc7.544.mballen@angus.foo.net> <92pkod011eh@drn.newsguy.com> <3A508B35.1D328941@iit.demokritos.gr> <92s8b30ddt@drn.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <kuu27gnmvm.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>

In article <92s8b30ddt at drn.newsguy.com>, Armin Steinhoff
<Armin_member at newsguy.com> writes:

| What the heck should offer a 'SMB client library' to that planet
| since we are able to mount SMB volumes??

i don't know who you mean by "we", but certainly the vast majority
of the platforms python runs on have no capability to mount
smb/cifs filesystems natively.

i propose we drop all the internet protocol modules from the
standard library since most of them show up as file systems
under plan 9 :)

 -- erno


From lenny at squiggie.com  Tue Jan 30 15:41:45 2001
From: lenny at squiggie.com (Lenny Self)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 12:41:45 -0800
Subject: Timer module?
References: <3A76F442.7BB0B9A9@americasm01.nt.com>
Message-ID: <3A772709.4090405@squiggie.com>

Lee, Rick wrote:

> The sleep() function in the time module blocks.
> 
> 
> 
> I wonder if there is already any timer module out there that allows me
> 
> to:
> 
> 
> 
> - set a timer without blocking the current thread
> 
> - cancel the timer
> 
> - maybe also, able to tell it to recur at a given interval for so many
> 
> times; and able to change that
> 
> - create thousands of timers with a performance penalty that grows
> 
> slower than linearly with the number of timers; preferably a performance
> 
> cost that is small and almost constant
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> 
> 
> - Rick Lee

Take a look at the time module.  It should help you out.

import time

time.sleep(<number of seconds>)

	-- Lenny



From MarkH at ActiveState.com  Wed Jan 24 13:12:06 2001
From: MarkH at ActiveState.com (Mark Hammond)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 18:12:06 GMT
Subject: beep again
References: <5251-3A6E5B71-16@storefull-163.iap.bryant.webtv.net>
Message-ID: <94n5td$gu1$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

In article <5251-3A6E5B71-16 at storefull-163.iap.bryant.webtv.net>,
  clickron at webtv.net wrote:
> Thanks for answering my last question. I get the beep now, but no
matter
> what numbers I put in for the frequency and duration it doesn't
change.

The Python test suite has the following:

import winsound
for i in range(100, 2000, 100):
    winsound.Beep(i, 75)
print "Hopefully you heard some sounds increasing in frequency!"


This does the "right thing" on both Python 2.0 and 2.1a1

Mark.


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From grey at despair.rpglink.com  Tue Jan  2 16:15:06 2001
From: grey at despair.rpglink.com (Steve Lamb)
Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2001 21:15:06 -0000
Subject: why no "do : until"?
References: <92jj3j$ff7$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <slrn94shbe.150.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <X8s36.2731$Qb7.305339@newsb.telia.net> <slrn94smds.150.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <FOt36.17$vd1.2224@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com> <slrn94t1vj.150.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <3A4E95FD.D6C737A7@engcorp.com> <slrn94tqkh.150.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <tpr46.7782$4c.597534@ruti.visi.com>
Message-ID: <slrn954h6p.rgv.grey@teleute.rpglink.com>

On Tue, 02 Jan 2001 21:06:33 GMT, Grant Edwards <grante at visi.com> wrote:
>Requiring edits to two possibly widely seperated places in the source code to
>change a single algorithm value is (in my experience) going to cause a bug
>some day.

    Makes you wonder how all those people who had to init variables in the
past got through life with such problems facing them, huh?  I mean, the
variable is right there before the loop.  The horrors, the agony, oh my, this
is worse than y2k!  Call out the national guard, the world is going to END
because someone cant make an edit in two OBVIOUS places!  Hell, I'm more
concerned with a lack of braces that vim can spot so I can bounce on the % key
to get from one end of a block to the other quickly than with a variable being
unedited when it is sitting at the top of the loop.  Guess which one I do
thousands of times more than the other?  Not saying Python needs braces, just
pointing out there are elements of it which run against other languages and
the tools devised for them that this is so insignificant it is a wonder anyone
has the energy to argue the matter for over a WEEK now.  GET OVER IT!

    Sorry, I just don't see it that way, esp. in cases like this.  It seems
that CLP is more concerned with the more anal retentive notions of its while
loop than anything else.

-- 
         Steve C. Lamb         | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your
         ICQ: 5107343          | main connection to the switchboard of souls.
-------------------------------+---------------------------------------------


From timr at probo.com  Sat Jan 13 19:23:25 2001
From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts)
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 16:23:25 -0800
Subject: More on web development
Message-ID: <0hr16t4gt4vp72b8aqcs0tup6ddcs1urtr@4ax.com>

The recent thread on web development techniques and templating vs
Python-as-HTML has been very helpful.  I wonder if I might explore another
aspect of this, which actually relates more to using Python in larger
applications.

There are a number of ways to architect a Python-based web site with many
pages.  I have tended to build my site with one script per page, so that
the URL simply points to the .py file.  I'm now realizing this has a number
of disdvantages.  For one thing, it can be difficult to share global state.
I've tried to put common things, including instances of global data, into a
"common.py", but since common.py has to be imported into almost every file,
there seem to be multiple instance issues.

I'm wondering now if it would be better to have the whole site dispatched
by a single script, using the PATH_INFO part of the URL to identify a
command to be executed.  Does anyone have any feelings about this?

I'm also considering switching my global state from module-based to class
instance-based.  The biggest advantage to this, it seems to me, is that I
no longer need to worry about importing my common.py everywhere.  I can
pass the global class instance around and call the methods without the
import, and without worrying about nested import dependencies.

Any advice from the more experienced Python web developers?
--
- Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
  Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.


From cfelling at iae.nl  Fri Jan  5 20:43:43 2001
From: cfelling at iae.nl (Carel Fellinger)
Date: 6 Jan 2001 02:43:43 +0100
Subject: why no "do : until"?
References: <92jj3j$ff7$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <t4t9qv73vvvfff@corp.supernews.com> <slrn94u2o4.fkv.qrczak@qrnik.zagroda> <92o7gh$nd2$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <9350ti$s17$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <935t8f$9ej$1@animus.fel.iae.nl>

r_m_guy at my-deja.com wrote:
...
> The whole "while" and "do:while" thing seems
> arbitrary to me, I think, that there should
> really be one loop construct called "loop:" the

well, it is spelled `while' now, so to keep existing code happy
spell it `while' too *and* allow for the extremely frequent variant
where there are no statements prior to the test.

   while <optional-test>:
      <statements>
      if <test>: <break or even continue>
      <statements>

I wonder what's wrong with this idea?  (no-one has ever, to my
knowledge, objected to it, neither has it found many fans:)

It would remove the ugly always-true test in the `while 1:' idiom for
*all* non-common loop-forms.  It would be fully compatible with
current code.  The only thing left to satisfy anybody (Alex) would be
to dedent the if-guard.

Fortunately there is no common opinion on what forms a statement-suite:
to some all statements, including the if-guard, form while's-statement-suite;
to others the if-guard is of such importance that they allow it to
break the indentation of the statements in while's-statement-suite.
So we just pick one and we all win, no code breakage and *Knuth's*
general loop construct finally added to Python hence no more
endless discussions on this subject:)

> All this approach does is replace the artificial
> contruct "while 1" with a single natural "loop"
> construct.

> Just my 2 cents, but it seems sensible to me.

me to.
-- 
groetjes, carel


From cfelling at iae.nl  Sun Jan  7 19:58:23 2001
From: cfelling at iae.nl (Carel Fellinger)
Date: 8 Jan 2001 01:58:23 +0100
Subject: new enum idiom
References: <G6qzLy.6Fo@world.std.com> <938jmh$919$1@animus.fel.iae.nl> <938nh6$96cqi$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <93b3bf$dlh$1@animus.fel.iae.nl>

Emile van Sebille <emile at fenx.com> wrote:

> But is the Queen's birthday still a verpligte snipperdag?

Yes, we even fixed this birthday-date for all future queens to
be that of our current queen-mother, the last one we all loved.

> hoping-I-spelt-that-right-ly y'r

I think that's the way they spell it in South Africa, here we
use ch instead of g, but don't worry it sound the same, so it
is equally difficult to pronounce for non natives:)
-- 
groetjes, carel


From teep at inet.co.th  Wed Jan 31 08:44:29 2001
From: teep at inet.co.th (Prateep Siamwalla)
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 20:44:29 +0700
Subject: Joining lists
References: <mailman.980940576.15930.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9594mm$ht7$1@news.inet.co.th>

You can also try 'extend':

>>> q = [1,2,3,4]
>>> q.extend([5,6,7,8])
>>> q
[1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8]


hth
teep

<jurgen.defurne at philips.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.980940576.15930.python-list at python.org...
Hello, list members,

Is there a simple way of joining two list to form only one list, like :

[1, 5, 6, 4] <join operation> [4, 6, 7] -> [1, 5, 6, 4, 4, 6, 7]

Thanks,

Jurgen




From SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk  Tue Jan 23 07:12:46 2001
From: SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk (Simon Brunning)
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 12:12:46 -0000
Subject: Editor font in IDLE (Linux)
Message-ID: <31575A892FF6D1118F5800600846864D5B1750@intrepid>

> From:	Gilles Lenfant [SMTP:glt at e-pack.net]
> There is no "config-unix.txt" file in any Python related directory.
> Perhaps you are using another IDLE version than mine (0.5).
 
The file that Bryan mentioned was introduced in IDLE version 0.6. Why not
upgrade to that version?

Cheers,
Simon Brunning
TriSystems Ltd.
sbrunning at trisystems.co.uk




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accept liability for statements made which are clearly the senders own.



From pbjorn at uswest.net  Wed Jan  3 13:27:16 2001
From: pbjorn at uswest.net (Bjorn Pettersen)
Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 11:27:16 -0700
Subject: Threads
References: <mailman.978545468.8001.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3A536F04.2E324A99@uswest.net>

Terry Hancock wrote:

> [snip]

> 2) Do any of these architectures impose high per-thread
> costs or limits on the number of processes that can be
> running (or rather what are the limits I can expect for
> any architecture?).  I ask this because this programming
> model calls for large numbers (100s or 1000s) of very
> light processes (e.g. 10 - 100 lines of Python code).

Very few arcitechtures will let you run 1000s of threads. Stackless
Python with micro threads should work perfectly for what you're
describing though...

-- bjorn




From sholden at holdenweb.com  Wed Jan 10 14:42:32 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 14:42:32 -0500
Subject: Reading Microsoft Outlook Express .dbx files
References: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCKENHIHAA.tim.one@home.com>
Message-ID: <000901c07b3d$7a70acc0$0201a8c0@holdenweb.com>

[posted and mailed]

The timbot wrote, in its wisdom:


> [posted & mailed]
>
> [Steve Holden]
> > In my trek through the various mail packages the Windoze user may be
> > confronted with I am currently battling with Outlook Express.
> > It's actually rather better than I feared.
>
> Hint:  The undocumented Ctrl+F3 brings up a box with the actual raw email,
> headers and MIME separators and all (only in OE; Outlook doesn't support
> this, and AFAICT Outlook doesn't even save the original stream).
>
> > Its native folder format appears to be a ".dbx" file, about which
> > I have no information.
>
> Also undocumented.
>
> > Does any reader have experience with either reading these files, or
> > automating OEx to provide them to a Python program in RFC822-style
> > formats?
>
> Check out this pragmatic reverse-engineering:
>
>     http://sourceforge.net/projects/mbx2mbox/
>
>     Converts Outlook .mbx and .dbx files into standard RFC822
>     mail files.  Mailboxes from newer versions of Outlook and
>     Outlook express may not be supported.
>
> If you ever have to deal with Outlook .pst format, though, that's black
> magic at a whole 'nother level, using both undocumented compression and
> undocumented encryption schemes.  Never found anything that understands
> .pst.  Best way to convert Outlook msgs to std form I ever found was to
> *mail* Outlook msgs, as attachments, from Outlook to a Unixish client, and
> pick them apart on the receiving end.
>
> no-actual-need-to-break-the-code-ly y'rs  - tim
>
Thanks for your advice. Since I'm using a fairly recent edition of OE
(5.50.4133.2400) I suspect there'll be problems, but at the very worst I can
pick the mbx2mbox code apart (blerch: Perl!) and recast it in Python, if I'm
capable, updating as I go along. It will at least have some ideas in it,
whic puts me further down the orad than I am now.

The problem with the usual techniques of saving as text, and some mailing
solutions, is that attachments are frequently ignored. I overcame the
inability to deal with .pst files by importing from Outlook to OE. I also
imported my Netscape mail, though I had already managed to deal with that in
Python.

all-my-eggs-now-firmly-in-one-basket-ly y'rs  - steve





From thantos at telocity.com  Wed Jan 24 18:42:07 2001
From: thantos at telocity.com (Alexander Williams)
Date: 24 Jan 2001 18:42:07 -0500
Subject: Python vs Ruby
References: <94mdkd$222e$1@news.adamastor.ac.za> <SRBb6.9880$d25.63606@newsfeed.slurp.net>
Message-ID: <87itn4plf4.fsf@brimstone.mecha>

"bowman" <bowman at montana.com> writes:

> If you want to play with something out of the mainstream, and are on Linux,
> try Pike.

If you REALLY want to go out of the mainstream, on both Linux and
Windows, go hit http://www.erlang.org ...  Nothing beats the feeling
of watching a single function go bouncing between your Linux and Win
boxen running the same byrecode, packaging itself up and beaming its
data across to the other node to compute on either/both ...

-- 
Alexander Williams (thantos at telocity.com)               | In the End,
  "Blue Jester needs food."                             | Oblivion
  "Blue Jester needs fuku-wearing cuties."              | Always
  http://www.chancel.org                                | Wins


From andreas at andreas-jung.com  Wed Jan 17 10:53:50 2001
From: andreas at andreas-jung.com (Andreas Jung)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 16:53:50 +0100
Subject: Securing passwords stored inside of a database field using Python
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0101171749020.28607-100000@fep132.fep.ru>; from phd@phd.pp.ru on Wed, Jan 17, 2001 at 05:50:08PM +0300
References: <NKh96.874$eI2.31689@NewsReader> <Pine.LNX.4.30.0101171749020.28607-100000@fep132.fep.ru>
Message-ID: <20010117165350.A24421@yetix.sz-sb.de>

On Wed, Jan 17, 2001 at 05:50:08PM +0300, Oleg Broytmann wrote:
> On Wed, 17 Jan 2001, chris lamb wrote:
> > A one way encryption algorithm? If so what would be recommended by anyone<
> 
>    MD5 or SHA. Python has modules for both. Some databases can create
> hashes for passwords (MySQL can do it with both unix "broken DES" hash and
> MD5).

When it is neccessary to decrypt stored passwords you could try an algorithm
like IDEA. Maybe take a look at the mxCrypto or amkCrypto package for Python.
They implement the most popular crypto algorithms. But take care of the
US export controls for encryption software.

Andreas



From tim.one at home.com  Fri Jan  5 21:45:27 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 21:45:27 -0500
Subject: A single, general looping construct? (was: why no "do : until"?)
In-Reply-To: <0O7zTzsxerl5-pn2-d47FDdZYq25y@bill>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCEEAIIHAA.tim.one@home.com>

[William Sonna]
> ...
> 1.  Wasn't the adoption Perl-style regex's essentially a tip
> of the hat to a widely used, widely understood (and refreshingly
> un-lippy) syntax?

I was there at the time, so I can speak from memory instead of speculation
<wink>:  your parenthetical comment comes closest.  Didn't care whether it
was widely used, didn't care about widely understood either, *did* care that
(kneejerk Perl detractors notwithstanding) the Perl5 regexp syntax was--
with small exceptions --the most rational, consistent and useful-in-practice
regexp notation around.    It sold itself on its merits.  Unlike, say, curly
braces, the use of which is akin to filling your pillow with garlic to keep
vampires away <wink>.

dear-lord-what-if-the-whitespace-mutates-someday-then-we'll-
    be-sorry-ly y'rs  - tim




From barry at digicool.com  Sat Jan 20 18:08:04 2001
From: barry at digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 18:08:04 -0500
Subject: Tabbing/Spaces & python-mode
References: <mailman.980018603.30482.python-list@python.org>
	<ku7l3qatuc.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>
Message-ID: <14954.6740.188215.931896@anthem.wooz.org>

>>>>> "EK" == Erno Kuusela <erno-news at erno.iki.fi> writes:

    EK> hmm, at least with emacs python-mode & tabs, there is the
    EK> slight inconvenience that left arrow and right arrow only move
    EK> one character at a time, whereas with tabs they move the whole
    EK> indentation step at a time. i wonder if there's a way to
    EK> remedy this ?

If you're in the indentation, just use M-m (ESC m) to get you to the
first non-whitespace character and C-a to get you to the beginning of
the line.

-Barry



From brian_zhou at agilentNOSPAM.com  Sun Jan 28 18:43:03 2001
From: brian_zhou at agilentNOSPAM.com (Brian Zhou)
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 15:43:03 -0800
Subject: SICP subsets exercise in python?
Message-ID: <980725379.806449@emperor.labs.agilent.com>

Just curious if I can do it easily in Python, kind of give up after a few
tries. Anyone?

/Brian


Exercise. We can represent a set as a list of distinct elements, and we can
represent the set of all subsets of the set as a list of lists. For example,
if the set is (1 2 3), then the set of all subsets is (() (3) (2) (2 3) (1)
(1 3) (1 2) (1 2 3)). Complete the following definition of a procedure that
generates the set of subsets of a set and give a clear explanation of why it
works:
(define (subsets s)
  (if (null? s)
      (list nil)
      (let ((rest (subsets (cdr s))))
        (append rest (map ?? rest)))))

Scheme:

(define (subsets s)
  (if (null? s)
    '(())
    (let ((rest (subsets (cdr s))))
      (append rest (map (lambda (ss) (cons (car s) ss)) rest)))))

Haskell:

subsets []      = [[]]
subsets (x:xs)  = let rest = subsets xs
                   in rest ++ (map (x:) rest)





From ljohnson at resgen.com  Tue Jan  9 16:14:21 2001
From: ljohnson at resgen.com (Lyle Johnson)
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 15:14:21 -0600
Subject: Should I join the PSA if it's "no longer relevant"?
References: <e6K66.1478$Oe.8826@tor-nn1.netcom.ca>
Message-ID: <t5mvkjd31cvh98@corp.supernews.com>

"Warren Postma" <embed at NO_SPAM_PLEASE.geocities.com> wrote in message
news:e6K66.1478$Oe.8826 at tor-nn1.netcom.ca...
> I have a Python port (for ETS) that I'd like to place on the web
somewhere,
> preferably on Starship.python.net.

Warren,

This is not a direct answer to your question, but if you're just looking for
website & other development-related hosting for an open source project you
might consider SourceForge:

    http://sourceforge.net

I've had pretty good luck with them so far (for hosting FXPy).

Hope this helps,

Lyle




From michael at stroeder.com  Tue Jan 16 04:28:11 2001
From: michael at stroeder.com (Michael =?iso-8859-1?Q?Str=F6der?=)
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 10:28:11 +0100
Subject: adding the XML to 2.0 to be a mistake?
References: <mailman.979611383.15529.python-list@python.org> <3d8zocuqrd.fsf@kronos.cnri.reston.va.us>
Message-ID: <3A64142B.82D7C547@stroeder.com>

Andrew Kuchling wrote:
> 
> John Schmitt <jschmitt at vmlabs.com> writes:
> > Pardon the ignorance, but where is the mistake?
> 
> Duplicating complex code in two different projects, so that they have
> to be kept in sync manually at the cost of time and effort, is the
> mistake.

Not to speak of XML beginners' confusion...

Ciao, Michael.


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Wed Jan  3 09:29:47 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2001 15:29:47 +0100
Subject: Returning objects from C extension modules.
References: <roy-4C735E.16184201012001@news.panix.com>
Message-ID: <92vd2p02upc@news2.newsguy.com>

"Roy Smith" <roy at panix.com> wrote in message
news:roy-4C735E.16184201012001 at news.panix.com...
> I've played around a bit with building extension modules in C, and I think
> I've got the hang of the basic stuff.  I (think) I understand how to use
> Py_BuildValue() to return simple values, and lists, tuples, or
dictionaries
> of these.
>
> But, what I don't get is how to implement a class and return an object of
> that class.  For example, let's say I've got a function in C which looks
like

Alas, you're running afoul of the "type/class split"; extension
modules can implement and return _types_, but not really _classes_.

On www.boost.org, you'll find the "Boost Python Library", which lets
you easily implement and return types which can be used as classes
in your extension modules -- but it supports C++ only, not C.

Jim Fulton's "ExtensionClass" may be what you need -- see
http://www.digicool.com/releases/ExtensionClass/


> Do I need to have my extension module return a tuple of values, then build
a
> thin wrapper in python which creates the class, instantiates an object of
> that class, and then copies the items of the tuple into the object?  Or is
> there something more straight-forward?

Definitely more straightforward: have the extension return a *dictionary*
of values -- your Python wrapper can then just assign self.__dict__ to
that object, without any copying.  That can be handy.

Implementing types at the C level is not really straightforward, though,
of course, quite feasible.  A very usable document:
http://starship.python.net/crew/arcege/extwriting/pyext.html


Alex





From dan.rolander at marriott.com  Fri Jan 19 23:39:03 2001
From: dan.rolander at marriott.com (Dan Rolander)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 23:39:03 -0500
Subject: Using Installer with PyXML
Message-ID: <016801c0829a$ea7bf2e0$11260340@yin>

David Bolen has been a tremendous help to me figuring out how to use Gordon
McMillan's Installer 20_3i to create standalone EXEs for Win32 with Python
2.0 and PyXML 0.6.3. We've discovered a couple of things though that I'd
like to point out and perhaps get some explanations on.

In order for Installer to properly discover the required PyXML files, we had
to rename the _xmlplus directory to xml and rename the core xml directory to
something else. According to David...

"The problem here has to be the way that the xml library tree is replacing
itself with the _xmlplus tree from the later PyXML distribution.  While
runtime re-assigns xml to _xmlplus in the __init__ for xml, the import
system used by the installation package can't track that, so it still looks
for the actual module tree it loaded from the Python distribution beneath
the name xml."

So the question is, will this adversely impact normal Python operation, and
is there a better way?

The other question I have is... Why are there two different pyexpat.pyd
files, one as part of the core 2.0 distribution (at only 25 kb) and the
other as part of the PyXML distribution in _xmlplus.parsers (at 124 kb). I
haven't been able to get the large one to work using Installer, but the
small core file works fine. What is the difference?

Thanks to anybody who can help here,
Dan






From thomas at xs4all.net  Tue Jan 30 08:22:06 2001
From: thomas at xs4all.net (Thomas Wouters)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 14:22:06 +0100
Subject: how to store great array?
In-Reply-To: <slrn97cccp.30e.jepler@potty.housenet>; from jepler@inetnebr.com on Tue, Jan 30, 2001 at 03:14:35AM +0000
References: <953sps$nta$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <slrn97cccp.30e.jepler@potty.housenet>
Message-ID: <20010130142206.H962@xs4all.nl>

On Tue, Jan 30, 2001 at 03:14:35AM +0000, Jeff Epler wrote:

> There isn't a portable routine to get the amount of free memory, but
> Python will raise an exception (MemoryError?) in case you allocate all
> available memory.

This is not really true. Python will raise MemoryError if a malloc() call
fails. However, on most modern UNIX systems, malloc() will happily give you
money it doesn't really have, in the assumption you won't really use it
right away, at least not all of it, and that it'll have time to free money
when you do need it. Oops, did I say money ? I meant memory.

Some versions of Linux (like the 2.1.x development kernels, IIRC) actually
froze up if you tried to use (not allocate, but use) more memory than the
machine had available, running in a tight loop to free up memory when there
wasn't anything to be freed up. More sane kernels of Linux, and other OSes,
will probably just generate a segmentation fault or kill off the process or
some such. All in all, not something to do just to find out what the upper
limit of available memory is. You basically just want to use whatever memory
you need, and document that 'MemoryError', 'segmentation violation/fault'
and 'killed' mean that the machine hasn't got the memory it needs :)

-- 
Thomas Wouters <thomas at xs4all.net>

Hi! I'm a .signature virus! copy me into your .signature file to help me spread!



From nils.hensel at online.de  Sat Jan 20 12:08:12 2001
From: nils.hensel at online.de (Nils Hensel)
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 18:08:12 +0100
Subject: I will kill my Python
References: <mailman.979852022.13720.python-list@python.org> <947r18$rdt$1@news.online.de> <WV0a6.745$eI2.252250@ruti.visi.com>
Message-ID: <94cgoe$sns$1@news.online.de>

I know that but thanks for telling me anyhow. He didn't say only a single
.exe file, but what serious program can be packed completely into a
single.exe ? And even then your exe would still call the Windows dlls. He
said he was looking for another "easy animal" so would you want to convince
him using C++ ?
If you want to use such an elegant, dynamic and rapidly-coded language like
Python, installing the runtime is the price you have to pay!
And besides developing is very different in VB and in Python.

Nils

"Grant Edwards" <grante at visi.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:WV0a6.745$eI2.252250 at ruti.visi.com...
> In article <947r18$rdt$1 at news.online.de>, Nils Hensel wrote:
>
> >If an exe is your single concern then perhaps you should better stick
with
> >VB.
>
> As if running an exe file generated by VB doesn't require that
> a whole slew of DLLs and other cruft be installed.  It's no
> different than Python.
>
> --
> Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  It was a JOKE!!
Get
>                                   at               it?? I was receiving
>                                visi.com            messages from DAVID
>                                                    LETTERMAN!! YOW!!




From mfletch at tpresence.com  Sat Jan 20 20:47:39 2001
From: mfletch at tpresence.com (Mike Fletcher)
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 20:47:39 -0500
Subject: Different deployment considerations (was: Python & GUI?)
Message-ID: <CC59868A0A76D311B1F50090277B321C1E1478@VRTMAIL>

I do wxPython-based distributions using installer quite often, they are not
"single file" installations, as you get the PythonXX.dll, wxc.pyd,
wxXXX.dll, zlib.pyd, etceteras all as separate files. I think you get the
same for the Tkinter apps, so not really sure what's meant by "single file"
here.

There's nothing special to do for wxPython, I just run "standalone" or
"simple" and the app is generated with the DLLs collected.  Once I rename
msvcirt.dll to msvcrt.dll I've got a working application.

Enjoy,
Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: Alex Martelli [mailto:aleaxit at yahoo.com]
Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2001 10:28 AM
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: Re: Different deployment considerations (was: Python & GUI?)


"Cameron Laird" <claird at starbase.neosoft.com> wrote in message
news:301DBDE62C14BD35.683C43A181247CB3.8398E5428BE1B406 at lp.airnews.net...
    [snip]
> side?  Gordon's Installer makes Win* Tkinter apps into
> single files ...  I know of *no* other of the many Python
> GUI bindings which enjoys this benefit.
>
> Does anyone have evidence to the contrary?

I haven't checked, but, why wouldn't Installer (or other
such solutions) work equivalently for, say, wxPython?


Alex



-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list



From gry at ll.mit.edu  Tue Jan 16 14:24:20 2001
From: gry at ll.mit.edu (George Young)
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 14:24:20 -0500
Subject: threading: how to kill a (possibly blocked) thread?
Message-ID: <3A649FE4.E582D0E0@ll.mit.edu>

[python2.0/linux 2.2.16/i686]
I'm using the threading module in a multithreaded server, with
Socketserver's ThreadingTCPServer.  My handler thread spawns a 
couple of other threads, each of which may block on wfile.write or
rfile.read, or RLock.acquire.
It appears that when the handler thread exits,
sometimes a child may hang around blocked forever.  I end up with
hundreds of hung threads and eventually may run out of processes.

I would like
to do an explicit 'kill' from the handler -- but there's no such
call available through the Threading API.  I notice an 'exit'
function in the 'thread' module that 'Threading' claims to be built on.

Is there a way to get a 'thread' reference from my Threading object
and call it's exit function?  Will this confuse Threading and break
other things?

Thanks,
	George
-- 
Your mouse has moved.
Windows NT must be restarted for the change to take effect.
Reboot now?  [OK]


From androidmonkey  Sat Jan  6 13:23:25 2001
From: androidmonkey (AndroidMonkey)
Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2001 13:23:25 -0500
Subject: Speed of Python vs. Perl
Message-ID: <t5eojolijv1e58@corp.supernews.com>

In the last Maximum Linux magazine, there was an article about using Perl
for a car MP3 player.  It got me wondering - What's the speed of Python like
compared to Perl? I've never used Perl before, so I hope someone could
answer my question here. Thanks  -vm




From barry at digicool.com  Thu Jan  4 22:50:00 2001
From: barry at digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 22:50:00 -0500
Subject: JPython 2.0 Anyone???
References: <932v2b0rpg@news2.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <14933.17512.490344.673771@anthem.wooz.org>

>>>>> "BS" == Benjamin Scherrey <scherrey at innoverse.com> writes:

    BS> Is there any 2.0 support going on for JPython? It seems that
    BS> there's not a lot of new development going on in this area. I
    BS> happen to be using some python 2.0 features and Jpython
    BS> doesn't like 2.0 compiled libraries. I get: File
    BS> "/usr/local/lib/python2.0/site.py", line 63
    |         dir = os.path.join(*paths)
    |         invalid syntax
    BS> I presume that until 2.0 support is implemented that I'm out
    BS> of luck? If so, how long til I'm back in luck do you expect?
    BS> :-)

Be sure you check out the Jython project on SourceForge:
jython.sourceforge.net.  Finn just released Jython 2.0beta1 which has
most of the Python 2.0 features in it.

-Barry




From r_m_guy at my-deja.com  Fri Jan  5 12:40:03 2001
From: r_m_guy at my-deja.com (r_m_guy at my-deja.com)
Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 17:40:03 GMT
Subject: why no "do : until"?
References: <92jj3j$ff7$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <t4t9qv73vvvfff@corp.supernews.com> <slrn94u2o4.fkv.qrczak@qrnik.zagroda> <92o7gh$nd2$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <9350ti$s17$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

In article <92o7gh$nd2$1 at nnrp1.deja.com>,
  henry_crun3583 at my-deja.com wrote:
> I can't really see a problem with any of the
suggested indents.
>
> > > do:
> > >     R=Themistor.ReadResistance()
> > >     T=R_to_Temperature(R)
> > > until (T>=25)
>
> Is neater but I don't have any trouble reading
(b)
>
> > > do:
> > >     R=Themistor.ReadResistance()
> > >     T=R_to_Temperature(R)
> > >     until (T>=25)
>
> if thats what the parser likes. But why can't
the parser ingnore extra
> indents, in the same way C,Pascal ignore blocks
added purely for
> clarity? If you want some extra indent, add it.
>
> > > do:
> > >       R=Themistor.ReadResistance()
> > >       T=R_to_Temperature(R)
> > >     until (T>=25)
>
> Tim Peters raises the question of do: while vs
do: until
>
> Personally I think "do: until" more often
reflects the algorithm I am
> representing, however "do: while" leads to a
single consistent test for
> both ("while:" & "do:while") loops, and can
reduce bugs, especially
> when you decide to change a loop from one to
the other and forget to
> fix the terminate condition. (I am a VERY vague
programmer)
>
> Sent via Deja.com
> http://www.deja.com/
>

The whole "while" and "do:while" thing seems
arbitrary to me, I think, that there should
really be one loop construct called "loop:" the
syntax should be

loop:
    <statements>
    if <test>: continue

    <statements>
    if <test>: break

This way there is only 1 metaphor for a loop, if
you always want the statements to execute at
least once(like do/while), do this:

loop:
    <statements>
    if <test>: break

if you want the statements to execute
conditionally do this

loop:
    if <test>: break
    <statements>

All this approach does is replace the artificial
contruct "while 1" with a single natural "loop"
construct.

Just my 2 cents, but it seems sensible to me.

Richard


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From fimafeng at my-deja.com  Wed Jan 24 08:12:59 2001
From: fimafeng at my-deja.com (fimafeng at my-deja.com)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 13:12:59 GMT
Subject: How do I kill an empty file ??
References: <94k9p5$vs2$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <94mkcn$vl8$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

Thanks to everyone for the solutions... Support like this is exactly
why I can't imagine trying to learn programming in a language that
didn'y have such awesome open-source support


chris


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From tony at lsl.co.uk  Thu Jan 25 09:48:58 2001
From: tony at lsl.co.uk (Tony J Ibbs (Tibs))
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 14:48:58 -0000
Subject: python-2.1 function attributes
In-Reply-To: <94ng4r$gin$1@animus.fel.iae.nl>
Message-ID: <004001c086dd$f2d40710$f05aa8c0@lslp7o.int.lsl.co.uk>

Decent syntax for this is obviously hard (else the Pythonlabs people and
their cohorts would already have gotten one). But...

Carel Fellinger proposed:
> why not enhance this like in:
>
>     >>> def f()
>     ...     with:
>     ...         f.__doc__ = 'spam'
>     ...     print f.__doc__
>     ...     f.__doc__ = f.__doc__ + ' and spam'
>     ...
>     >>> f()
>     spam
>     >>> f()
>     spam and spam
>
> and play some tricks to allow "with: suit" only here without it being
> a true keyword.

Hmm. The use of "with" (or "where" or some other word like that - "with"
seems the most obvious, but gets used for rather different purposes in
other languages, I think) is what I'd been thinking about as well.
My suggestion would be more along the lines of::

        def function(lots,of,args) with {type:"silly",
                                         size:32}
           """function(lots,of,args) -- function attribution

           Note that we already get #function.__doc__#
           for free.
           """

The "with" wouldn't be a keyword (in the same sense that "as" isn't in
"import fred as jim"). The "dictionary" syntax follows some of the
suggestions in the PEP, but the "with" makes it feel neater to me.
I'd prefer to leave the quotes off the key names - if we're adding new
syntax, then it should be OK to add a little magic as well, and it reads
a lot better without them. But that's not a point I'd get religious
about.

I definitely prefer to put the stuff before the doc string - otherwise
it doesn't "bind" well to me. The snag is that one would need a
continuation marker to put the "with" on a separate line::

        def function(lots,of,args) \
            with {type:"silly",
                  size:32}

but that's not much of a snag (and I don't mind continuation markers -
comes of learning BCPL early on, I guess).

Mike Romberg pointed out the second PEP syntax:
> def spam():
>     """The doc string."""
>     { 'attribute1' : 'val1', 'attribute2' : val2 }
>     pass

Paul Prescod wrote:
> I proposed a similar syntax to Guido a couple of years ago and he
> pointed out that it is unclear whether "val2" should be evaluated in
the
> runtime context of spam() or in the global context. The former is what
> the syntax suggests but the latter is the only way to have the feature
> work properly.

Hmm. It seems to me that it is reasonable to expect the context to be
whatever the BDFL decides (there, I can't lose now!), but I would
*assume* that it would be explained (as += and its ilk are) in terms of
"this behaves *as if* it were written out longhand in this manner...".

Presumably the "longhand" spelling of::

        def f(a) with {b:jim}:
           """f(a) -- silly example"""
           a = 1

would be::

        def f(a):
            f.__dict__["b"] = jim
            f.__doc__ = """f(a) -- silly example"""
            a = 1

(although, come to think of it, with the advantage that that is (if I
spelt the dictionary name right) an entirely equivalent alternative)

Does our (much beloved) BDFL still have this objection for *any* syntax
expressing these ideas?

Tibs

--
Tony J Ibbs (Tibs)      http://www.tibsnjoan.co.uk/
Give a pedant an inch and they'll take 25.4mm
(once they've established you're talking a post-1959 inch, of course)
My views! Mine! Mine! (Unless Laser-Scan ask nicely to borrow them.)




From chrisg at iacsolutions.com  Fri Jan 26 00:54:54 2001
From: chrisg at iacsolutions.com (chrisg at iacsolutions.com)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 23:54:54 -0600
Subject: python-2.1 function attributes
Message-ID: <3A71112E.3D8EDADA@iacsolutions.com>

"Michael Hudson" <mwh21 at cam.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:<m33de7z7dn.fsf at atrus.jesus.cam.ac.uk>...
[ hack ]
>
> def f(a, b, c) with publish = 1; secure = 0:
>     print "bobbins"
> 
> Then you use backslashes when the attribute or argument list get long.
> 
> def f(long_name, even_longer_name, still_longer_name) \
>         with publish = 1; secure = 0
>              grammar = f_grammar:
>     print "bobbins"
> 
> Thoughts?

This is the best idea I have seen yet.  I would make the ; mandatory at
the end of lines, but that is the C in me, I'm sure.  It might be
better, also, if line-continuation were required at the end of the
second line as well:

def f(long_name, even_longer_name, still_longer_name) \
        with publish = 1; secure = 0 \
             grammar = f_grammar:
    print "bobbins"

(OT) One thing bothers me about this.  It's the same thing that bothered
me about list comprehensions, and I like those.  I'll quote from a
message on the Ruby vs. Python thread:

"Johann Hibschman" <johann at physics.berkeley.edu> wrote in message
news:<mthf2o6f2s.fsf at astron.berkeley.edu>...
[ hack ]
> I'm a bear of little brain, and I can fit most of Python into my head,
> but I had trouble getting all of Ruby in, because it had just that
> much more complexity.  That's probably just practice, though.
[ hack ]

That's my problem with any new feature: anything that adds to the
complexity of the core of Python may make our beautiful language harder
to learn.  I am likewise nervous about strong and/or explicit typing for
the same reason.

In fact (OT^2) I feel that explicit typing may be inherently bad in
Python as it adds complexity that may not be necessary.  Why not? 
Because when I write modules I (almost) always check types and classes
at the beginning of the function anyway.  In many cases I allow a small
set of types (for instance, string or None) and I check for my own
conformance with an if ... : raise MyUglyError construct.

(OT^3) This also applies to the question in yet another thread about
knowing all the exceptions that a function can throw.  This led to a
discussion of exceptions one should default to "ignoring"... another
thing I feel is a bad idea.

Remember that adding "beauty" or "elegance" to a language often has the
effect of making the learning curve steeper.  This is a religion to
some, but when it comes to computer languages I am a pragmatist.



From baasad at qualitynet.net  Mon Jan 29 19:47:05 2001
From: baasad at qualitynet.net (bashar A. Asad)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 03:47:05 +0300
Subject: biggner question
References: <952951$m4r1@news.qualitynet.net>
	 <951m7d02ut7@news2.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <955nkh$m4r3@news.qualitynet.net>

thank a bunch for the tip :)
its easier than i thought


----------
In article <951m7d02ut7 at news2.newsguy.com>, "Alex Martelli"
<aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote:


> "baasad" <baasad at qualitynet.net> wrote in message
> news:952951$m4r1 at news.qualitynet.net...
>> how can I read from the command line
>
> The arguments passed to the command line when a Python script is
> run are accessible as a list, named argv, in standard module sys
> (which you'll need to import, of course).  The 0-th of these is the
> name of the script itself.
>
> For example, this script echoes its arguments, if any, to standard
> output:
>
> import sys
> for arg in sys.argv[1:]:
>     print arg,
> print
>
> If you save it as echo.py and run
>
> C:\> python.exe echo.py un deux trois
>
> it will output
>
> un deux trois
>
>
>> also how can I read users input :)
>
> There are two built-in functions for that (nothing needs to be
> imported), named input and raw_input.  Each takes an
> optional argument (a string with which to prompt the user
> for input) and returns user-input.  The input function
> expects that the user will type in a Python expression, and
> uses the built-in function eval to compile and run that
> expression; it will return its result, or raise an exception
> in case of syntax-error &c.  raw_input is simpler and more
> general: it just returns the string that the user did write,
> shorn of the terminating newline.  raw_input is what you
> most often want.
>
>
> Alex
>
>
> 


From rturpin at my-deja.com  Thu Jan  4 18:07:14 2001
From: rturpin at my-deja.com (rturpin at my-deja.com)
Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 23:07:14 GMT
Subject: A single, general looping construct? (was: why no "do : until"?)
References: <92jj3j$ff7$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <92m9pm$d19$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <B3z36.122$9s1.18804@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com> <3A4EC5B1.8912E571@engcorp.com> <x8G36.156$9s1.31209@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com> <92qc21$538$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <0O7zTzsxerl5-pn2-SISYKtwXTOmR@bill> <931lji02ik1@news2.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <932vmr$70b$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

In article <931lji02ik1 at news2.newsguy.com>,
  "Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote:
> .. I must have written and maintained many tens of thousands
> of lines in it. ..

Another ex-Fortran programmer! This newsgroup must be loaded
with escaped masochists.

> .. Simple GOTO, assigned GOTO, computed GOTO, logical IF,
> arithmetic IF, the DO statement... it's *brimming* with
> complexity! ..

Not to mention entry points, which throw a hidden GOTO into
subroutine CALLs. Ble-e-e-e-ch!

Russell


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From tim.one at home.com  Tue Jan 23 13:28:53 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 13:28:53 -0500
Subject: Python 2.1 alpha 1 released!
In-Reply-To: <AFC8540FEA0CF146A0256CEEC7FCEC6F4ACF20@apps.intra.ditec.sk>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCCEKPIKAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Vasko Miroslav]
> i looked at license text in 2.1a1 and i'm sad
> is there any chance to remove GPL incompatibility in 2.1 final?

CNRI and the FSF are still talking about it.  Sorry, but any definitive
information has to come from them (the CNRI 1.6 license is the focus of the
dispute, and only CNRI can modify that; while only the FSF can pronounce on
what they think is and isn't compatible; nobody at PythonLabs-- including
Guido! --has any say in this matter).

but-sure-there's-always-a-chance<wink>-ly y'rs  - tim




From chris at voodooland.net  Thu Jan 11 12:05:12 2001
From: chris at voodooland.net (Chris Watson)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 11:05:12 -0600 (CST)
Subject: BUG Python 2.0 FreeBSD compile problem
In-Reply-To: <muk76.5496$Qb7.762946@newsb.telia.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.21.0101111104490.35305-100000@open-systems.net>

> http://sourceforge.net/bugs/?func=detailbug&bug_id=128119&group_id=5470
> 
> (still says "Resolution: None", but I'm pretty sure a fixed
> was checked into CVS a couple of days ago...  if you can
> verify that the CVS version builds cleanly, let us know!)

	You know guys there is a reason why FreeBSD has a ports tree :-)

--
=============================================================================
-Chris Watson         (316) 326-3862 | FreeBSD Consultant, FreeBSD Geek 
Work:              scanner at jurai.net | Open Systems Inc., Wellington, Kansas
Home:  scanner at deceptively.shady.org | http://open-systems.net
=============================================================================
WINDOWS: "Where do you want to go today?"
LINUX: "Where do you want to go tomorrow?"
BSD: "Are you guys coming or what?"
=============================================================================
irc.openprojects.net #FreeBSD -Join the revolution!
ICQ: 20016186




From juergen.hofer at students.uni-linz.ac.at  Mon Jan 15 06:42:28 2001
From: juergen.hofer at students.uni-linz.ac.at (Juergen Hofer)
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 12:42:28 +0100
Subject: SQL-Statement with Python
Message-ID: <3A62E224.7AEE805E@students.uni-linz.ac.at>

Hi to all!

Is it possible to connect to a M$-Access Database (*.mdb) with Python
and make simple SQL-Queries and import the results into a list?
I'm using Python2.0 under Windows98.

Thanks
J?rgen




From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Jan  5 05:22:10 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 11:22:10 +0100
Subject: MySQL with Windows
References: <yJd56.9184$KY1.25399@news1.rivrw1.nsw.optushome.com.au>
Message-ID: <9347aa0285t@news2.newsguy.com>

"deadmeat" <root@[127.0.0.1]> wrote in message
news:yJd56.9184$KY1.25399 at news1.rivrw1.nsw.optushome.com.au...
> Is there anywhere I can download pre-compiled MySQL modules with no
> dependencies? MySQLdb seems to need MSVC..

Python C-written modules for Windows must always be compiled
and linked to use MSVCRT.DLL (which is what Python itself
uses), or they risk not interoperating correctly.  Is that
what you mean?


Alex





From jimd at vega.starshine.org  Mon Jan  1 19:25:55 2001
From: jimd at vega.starshine.org (Jim Dennis)
Date: 2 Jan 2001 00:25:55 GMT
Subject: Bug? in os.chown()
References: <3A4FC0DD.530F90E6@ev1.net> <p6q7l4fs6t8.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de> <slrn95195m.hn4.qrczak@qrnik.zagroda>
Message-ID: <slrn95280i.m6c.jimd@vega.starshine.org>

In article <slrn95195m.hn4.qrczak at qrnik.zagroda>, 
 Marcin 'Qrczak' Kowalczyk wrote:

>01 Jan 2001 15:09:07 +0100, Martin von Loewis <loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de> pisze:

>> To    change    the    symbolic    link    itself,    use
>> lchown(2).

>It should not be necessary. Symbolic link mode is not relevant anyway.

 It should not *normally* be necessary.  However, there are
 some special cases under Linux where the symlink permissions
 might be important.  In particular there is a set of patches
 from Solar Designer (don't know his real name) which allow one
 to impose a set of additional (non-POSIX) semantics on symlinks.
 (These prevent most symlink attacks from working, since it
 causes the kernel to refrain from following symlinks from 
 sticky directories (such as /tmp) unless that symlink is owned
 by root or the symlink and its target have matching owners).

 I'm sure there are other, probably more common cases where the 
 link ownership might be important.  I don't know of any cases
 under Linux where link *permissions* are considered.



From dsh8290 at rit.edu  Fri Jan 19 12:53:26 2001
From: dsh8290 at rit.edu (D-Man)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 12:53:26 -0500
Subject: Best way to learn Python ?
In-Reply-To: <947gsk$bkrt$1@fido.engr.sgi.com>; from pj@sgi.com on Thu, Jan 18, 2001 at 07:41:08PM +0000
References: <aa8a6t895h8l3k2q7nmhd25oh6m7haulj9@4ax.com> <3A66211B.F7F4F6BB@bioeng.ucsd.edu> <mailman.979787798.3798.python-list@python.org> <947gsk$bkrt$1@fido.engr.sgi.com>
Message-ID: <20010119125325.H4478@harmony.cs.rit.edu>

On Thu, Jan 18, 2001 at 07:41:08PM +0000, Paul Jackson wrote:
| 
| Ken wrote that "TCPC" teaches Python.
| 
| I presume he means "Tom Christiansen Perl Consultancy":

Tom Christiansen teaches Python in a Perl consultancy? 
Interesting ...

I wouldn't have thought to look on perl.com for Python training.

:-)
-D




From tismer at tismer.com  Wed Jan 10 17:38:57 2001
From: tismer at tismer.com (Christian Tismer)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 00:38:57 +0200
Subject: [Stackless] ANN: Sourcecode for Stackless Python 2.0
Message-ID: <3A5CE481.24A7656@tismer.com>

On Monday, Jan 8th, I spake

"""
Source code and an update to the website will become available in
the next days.
"""

Now, here it is, together with a slightly updated website,
which tries to mention all the people who are helping
or sponsoring me (yes, there are sponsors!).
If somebody feels ignored by me, let me know. I'm good at
making mistakes.

Let me also know if there are problems building the code,
or if there are *no* problems understanding the code.
I don't expect either :-)

There is nearly no support for Unix, but Stackless *should*
build on Unix as it did before without problems.

enjoy - chris

-- 
Christian Tismer             :^)   <mailto:tismer at tismer.com>
Mission Impossible 5oftware  :     Have a break! Take a ride on Python's
Kaunstr. 26                  :    *Starship* http://starship.python.net
14163 Berlin                 :     PGP key -> http://wwwkeys.pgp.net
PGP Fingerprint       E182 71C7 1A9D 66E9 9D15  D3CC D4D7 93E2 1FAE F6DF
     where do you want to jump today?   http://www.stackless.com



From ngps at madcap.dyndns.org  Sat Jan 13 10:38:50 2001
From: ngps at madcap.dyndns.org (Ng Pheng Siong)
Date: 13 Jan 2001 15:38:50 GMT
Subject: How robust is Python ?
References: <9358nn$3c5$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <mailman.978721929.3640.python-list@python.org> <20010106103938.8FCAFA84F@darjeeling.zadka.site.co.il> <mailman.979313781.1111.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <93psqa$ucd$1@coco.singnet.com.sg>

According to Sandipan Gangopadhyay <sandipan at vsnl.com>:
> while binAliveMarker:
>   if binIWannaStartAgain:
>     time.sleep(1)
>     continue
>   work code ...

Do you really code with such variable names?

How about just "alive" and "startAgain"?

while alive:
    if startAgain:
        blah blah


Cheers.

-- 
Ng Pheng Siong <ngps at post1.com> * http://www.post1.com/home/ngps



From anders.eriksson at morateknikutveckling.se  Fri Jan 26 05:19:09 2001
From: anders.eriksson at morateknikutveckling.se (Anders M Eriksson)
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 11:19:09 +0100
Subject: Simple HTML template modules?
References: <3A711877.4C5B51AF@mail.com>
Message-ID: <p3j27topdltb12s2lqfvp7jhmn86flmlo7@4ax.com>

On Fri, 26 Jan 2001 06:26:39 GMT, Rayed Al-Rashed <rayed at mail.com>
wrote:

>Hi,
>
>I am trying to build CGI programs using Python, and I searched for
>simple HTML templates modules but couldn't find any ... any ideas
>where I can find such module.
>
There are several! I have used HTMLgen, by Mr Robin Friedrich, with
great success and now I'm just trying out WASP, by Mr Robin Parmer,
which also seem to be nice!

Mr Cameron has a list of CGI modules at
http://starbase.neosoft.com/~claird/comp.lang.python/web_python.html
Where you can find many more

HTMLgen
http://starship.python.net/crew/friedrich/

WASP
http://www.execulink.com/~robin/wasp/readme.html


// Anders



From db3l at fitlinxx.com  Fri Jan 19 13:27:11 2001
From: db3l at fitlinxx.com (David Bolen)
Date: 19 Jan 2001 13:27:11 -0500
Subject: I will kill my Python
References: <mailman.979852022.13720.python-list@python.org> <947r18$rdt$1@news.online.de> <948f09$i96$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <mailman.979898727.13381.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <uae8nbdog.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com>

"Dan Rolander" <dan.rolander at marriott.com> writes:

> Although I have found ways to create minimal private distributions and
> single exe packages, it's not easy. There needs to be a better deployment
> solution for Python scripts. I'm sure I'll get bashed by those who think I
> should just install the full Python distribution on any machine that I want
> to run a script on, but I support about 25,000 Windows desktops and that's
> just not feasible.

Within the Windows world, I just want to point out that while the
initial learning curve may be somewhat steep, once you've grasped
Gordon's installer tool (and yes, Tk just happens to make it a bit
steeper - luckily I use wxWindows), and combined it with a setup tool
(like the free InnoSetup) yes, it really is easy to make single
distribution/exe packages.

That is, when I'm done with an application nowadays, I just run
builder on it, then run the InnoSetup compiler, and boom - I have a
"setup.exe" that works precisely like any other setup out there and
can be distributed and installed exactly like any other Windows
application.

So the current cost/pain is really an up front one-time cost and not a
constant one, which at least for me is an acceptable state to be in,
and it's true of many other packages and systems that I use in daily
development.

Of course, simplifying this process is always good, and I'm sure any
efforts in that direction will always be welcome :-)

--
-- David
-- 
/-----------------------------------------------------------------------\
 \               David Bolen            \   E-mail: db3l at fitlinxx.com  /
  |             FitLinxx, Inc.            \  Phone: (203) 708-5192    |
 /  860 Canal Street, Stamford, CT  06902   \  Fax: (203) 316-5150     \
\-----------------------------------------------------------------------/


From travis.hume at tenzing.com  Fri Jan  5 14:08:30 2001
From: travis.hume at tenzing.com (Travis Hume)
Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 11:08:30 -0800
Subject: bug with command line option - in 1.5.2?
Message-ID: <3a561b87$1_1@news.nwlink.com>

Given a simple python script


	import sys
	print sys.argv[1]


Shouldn't the command

	python - foo < testpy.py

print the word foo to stdout?  Instead I'm getting this

	~/tmp >python - foo < testpy.py
	python: can't open file 'foo'
	~/tmp >

foo should be parsed as an argument to the script read from stdin.  If
I'm missing something please tell me so I can get here document scripts
working with python.

python v1.5.2
zsh
linux 2.4

-- 
Travis Hume
Software Engineer
Tenzing Communications Inc.
travis.hume at tenzing.com


From d98aron at dtek.chalmers.se  Mon Jan 29 12:22:51 2001
From: d98aron at dtek.chalmers.se (Fredrik Aronsson)
Date: 29 Jan 2001 17:22:51 GMT
Subject: removing duplicates from .csv files
References: <94ptre$uf0$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <9548tb$5hf$1@nyheter.chalmers.se>

In article <94ptre$uf0$1 at nnrp1.deja.com>,
	mspiggie at my-deja.com writes:
> I have been given several comma-delimited (.csv) files, each containing
> as many as several thousand lines of entries.  Among the tasks I've
> been charged with is to remove duplicate entries.  The files each
> contain fields for Contact Name, Company Name, Phone Number, and
> Address, among other fields, which vary from file to file.
> 
> I'm trying to determine a good way to sort for duplicates according to
> Phone Number and according to Address.  It seems that sorting by Phone
> Number would be simpler due to minor differences in the way data entry
> clerks might have input the addresses (W, W., and West, for instance),
> but not all entries have phone numbers.

Good idea.

> 
> I have already come up with some code to work around most of the
> obvious problems with the different ways addresses may be input, but
> I'm not sure what the best way to sort for duplicates might be.  One
> suggestion I have received is to have lines with identical fields
> placed back to back with an equivalence check and manually read through
> the file.  The equivalence check itself seems simple, but I'm not sure
> how to scan only the target field (split(), maybe?), and I certainly
> want to avoid having to manually remove the duplicates afterward.
> 

Well, use the module suggested by Dave to read the stuff.
Then you can extract phonenumber and some more important field
and put them into tuples like this:

(phone,adress (or lastname or ..), .... ,record number in the source file)

using sort on a list of these tuples will first sort them 
accordingly to phonenumbers first, and those that have
the same phonenumber (or no phonenumber) will be sorted
acccording to the second field and so on.

Then you can scan through the list and find groups of
records that are identical according to your search criterion.
(A faster approach is probably to build a binary tree.)
If these groups are small enough, you can compare all
combinations of records with your equivalence check.
e.g. compare record
1 with 2
1 with 3
...
1 with n

2 with 3
2 with 4
...
2 with n

.
.
.

n-1 with n

If two record are identical, copy the line number in
the right tuple to a "delete later list".
(You only want to delete one of the identical records...)

After that, start deleting all records in the file according
to the recordnumbers in the "delete later list".
(if record = line, it's easy.)

This is untested and depends on the sorting being is so efficient
that you don't get very large groups.
If you can, try to normalize fields and use them as search criterions.
e.g. if you sort 
XXX-XXXX and XXX XX XX they will not end up besides each other,
that's why you have to transform them to a common form
(XXXXXXX or something) before sorting.

Hope this helps a little
Fredrik


From aahz at panix.com  Wed Jan 10 13:23:08 2001
From: aahz at panix.com (Aahz Maruch)
Date: 10 Jan 2001 10:23:08 -0800
Subject: boolean xor
References: <93ace8$nmo$1@panix3.panix.com> <93i7ne$5dk$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <93i9ac$guc$1@panix3.panix.com>

In article <93i7ne$5dk$1 at nnrp1.deja.com>,  <ndev42 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>Nicolas removed that attribution for Aahz:
>>
>> I need a boolean (not bit-wise) xor function.  I've got the following
>> function, but my logic skills are rusty enough that I'm wondering if
>> this is the "right" way to do it (I've validated that it produces the
>> correct outputs, at least):
>>
>> def xor(a,b):
>>     return not ( (a and b) or (not (a or b)) )
>
>A boolean xor is a detector of differences. Knowing that, you can
>simply write:
>
>def xor(a,b):
>	return not(a==b)

That works only if the test is against equality, not "truthfullness" by
Python's standards.  For example, I was using my xor() function this
way:

class Token:
    def __init__(self, URL=None, Shutdown=None):
        if not xor(URL, Shutdown):
            raise "Must assign one of URL or Shutdown"

In this scenario, one would expect URL to be a string and Shutdown to be
an integer; comparing for equality would be useless.
-- 
                      --- Aahz (Copyright 2001 by aahz at pobox.com)

Androgynous poly kinky vanilla queer het    <*>     http://www.rahul.net/aahz/
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6

Sometimes, you're not just out of left field, you're coming in all the
way from outer space.  --Aahz


From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Mon Jan  8 09:11:59 2001
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 14:11:59 +0000
Subject: How to set up an XML-RPC server (newbie)
References: <3A59B00B.4CB407D3@fast.no>
 <h$hZIgAp5bW6Ew2C@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <3A59C319.E878838C@fast.no>
Message-ID: <4YwvRIAvqcW6Ewnk@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>

In article <3A59C319.E878838C at fast.no>, Torkil Grindstein
<torkil at fast.no> writes
>> for simplicity you should try F Lundh/Pythonware's
>> http://www.pythonware.com/downloads/xmlrpc-0.9.8-990621.zip
>
>Thank you for the quick answer.
>
>But still I wonder...
>
>The zip-package contains three .py-files. I've been trying to
>run them in different orders, but I get a series of error
>messages anyways. (And yes, I've outcommented the betty-server
>line, and uncommented the localhost-server line.)
>
>Here is an example.
>First, I run xmlrpcserver.py, then xmlrpclib.py:
>This yields :
...
well I did the same on my win32 Python 2.0 machine. It works fine for
me. Is it possible you aren't running python with the script? The
scripts don't seem to have #!/usr/local/bin/python or other magic at the
front.

In the server / xmlrpclib windows I got
C:\Tmp\xxx>python xmlrpcserver.py
CALL examples.getStateName (41,)
jessikat - - [08/Jan/2001 14:05:48] "POST /RPC2 HTTP/1.0" 200 -



C:\Tmp\xxx>python xmlrpclib.py
<Server proxy for localhost:8000/RPC2>
41

C:\Tmp\xxx>

-- 
Robin Becker


From Vasilis.Giannikopoulos at eurodyn.com  Mon Jan 15 06:17:11 2001
From: Vasilis.Giannikopoulos at eurodyn.com (Vasilis Giannikopoulos)
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 13:17:11 +0200
Subject: Netscape Enterprise Server 4.1
Message-ID: <3A62DC37.5A5A5294@eurodyn.com>

Does anyone know if a Python script that is now running on Apache could
also run on Netscape Enterprise Server 4.1 without modifications or run
at all?

Thank you.

Aki
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From barry at digicool.com  Thu Jan 18 15:46:41 2001
From: barry at digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 15:46:41 -0500
Subject: [Jython-users] Jython-2.0 released
References: <3a66bf91.2411657@smtp.worldonline.dk>
Message-ID: <14951.22065.701948.950184@anthem.wooz.org>

On behalf of the Pythonlabs team, I want to extend my congratulations
to Finn Bock on the release of Jython 2.0 final.  This is a wonderful
milestone in the life of JPython and Jython.

Some of you are probably aware that I haven't been actively involved
in Jython development for many months.  With the Pythonlabs turmoil in
2000, I found that trying to lead two open source projects (Mailman
and Jython) while still contributing to CPython's development was
simply too much.  I ran out of cycles and something had to give.

Handing over the reins of Jython project leadership to Finn was
actually quite an easy decision.  He has been a valued contributor to
the project for a long time, and I knew that he would serve Jython
well.  The Jython 2.0 release reinforces the wisdom of that decision!
:)

Jython is and continues to be a very important part of the Python
world.  The Pythonlabs team encourages and salutes Finn's work on
Jython and will continue to work with him on various issues such as
language development, CPython compatibility, and legal issues.

I leave Jython in good hands -- thanks Finn Bock, Samuele Pedroni, and
all the other Jython developers.

-Barry

Barry A. Warsaw
PythonLabs at Digital Creations
barry at digicool.com



From wware at world.std.com  Sun Jan 28 19:05:42 2001
From: wware at world.std.com (Will Ware)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 00:05:42 GMT
Subject: SICP subsets exercise in python?
References: <980725379.806449@emperor.labs.agilent.com>
Message-ID: <G7wDLI.96M@world.std.com>

Brian Zhou (brian_zhou at agilentNOSPAM.com) wrote:
> Just curious if I can do it easily in Python, kind of give up after a few
> tries. Anyone?

You could do worse than a straightforward translation from Scheme to Python:

def subsets(biglist):
    if not biglist:
        return [ [ ] ]
    rest = subsets(biglist[1:])
    def func(ss, s=biglist[0]):
        return [s] + ss
    return rest + map(func, rest)

There is probably a more idiomatically Pythonic way to do this. I'm
too lazy to think of it right now. I'd start by looking for opportunities
to replace recursion with iteration.

-- 
import string,time,os;print string.join((lambda x:x[:10]+x[8:])(map(
lambda x:string.center("*"*(lambda x:((x<24) ### Seasons Greetings, Will Ware
*(x-3))+3)(x),24),range(1,28, 2))),"\n") ################ wware at world.std.com


From emile at fenx.com  Thu Jan 18 23:10:51 2001
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 20:10:51 -0800
Subject: PSU uses emacs?
References: <948e4b$hm0$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <948eq4$ce4db$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>

You know that's not something that's talked about! ;-)

--

Emile van Sebille
emile at fenx.com
-------------------


"Chris Ryland" <cpr at emsoftware.com> wrote in message
news:948e4b$hm0$1 at nnrp1.deja.com...
> Why do I have the sinking feeling that, with all the talk
about IDEs
> for Python, that the cognoscenti all use Emacs with
python-mode and a
> shell window? ;-)
> --
> Chris Ryland * Em Software, Inc. * www.emsoftware.com
>
>
> Sent via Deja.com
> http://www.deja.com/




From loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de  Sat Jan 20 17:59:00 2001
From: loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de (Martin von Loewis)
Date: 20 Jan 2001 23:59:00 +0100
Subject: Python and Industry, IBM I'm afraid
References: <20010111172342.10148.00000934@ng-ca1.aol.com> <HnO86.78962$_G5.11779533@typhoon.nyroc.rr.com> <3A63D9E8.F9B74ACE@mjs400.co.uk> <gv%86.19$eI2.9424@ruti.visi.com>
Message-ID: <p6qpuhhq18r.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>

grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards) writes:

> How many Universities teach Python?

I don't have a number, but I know that I do.

Regards,
Martin


From syver at NOSPAMcyberwatcher.com  Tue Jan  9 08:28:47 2001
From: syver at NOSPAMcyberwatcher.com (Syver Enstad)
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 14:28:47 +0100
Subject: embedding python in C++
References: <934r1a$pda$1@troll.powertech.no> <93a3lp01kpg@news1.newsguy.com> <93b02a$tr8$1@troll.powertech.no> <93cq6n0186t@news1.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <YmE66.99$k25.1060@news1.oke.nextra.no>

"Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:93cq6n0186t at news1.newsguy.com...
> You could do it all in C++ without real pain -- whence, the 'somewhat' in
> my sentence above, rather than 'massively':-): instantiating the Python
> type C++ object (which need only implement a 'write' method, and let
> 'softspace' be set & gotten from Python) in C++, and using, again from
C++,
Mmm, that's what I did, didn't implement the softspace attribute though.
What's it for anyway?

> PyObject_SetAttrString to set it directly as the 'stdout' attribute of
> the sys module.

I did that from python instead.

>on the basis of "do the simplest
> thing that can possibly work", it's probably best avoided anyway.
Yeah, shave it with Occam's razor!

> Another principle (a corollary of the main one) being, of course, "as
little
> C++ as you can possibly get away with":-).
Yes, but sometimes it's fun struggle with C++ too, but it generally
dispappears when I start trying to reuse things which is a real pain in C++,
not to mention runtime libraries, and the need to have a lib compiled in at
least 4 different versions dependening on which other libraries you link
with.

>Personally, I currently use the Boost Python Library (BPL), at
> www.boost.org, for all C++/Python work that I don't do through COM (with
> the sole exception of what I need to do in C for general acceptance:-).

Yes, boost looks interesting. I've downloaded it, but I don't think I'll use
it before I have a better grasp of the underlying API.

> Sorry, can't help you here, either.  If I _was_ in a threading-is-crucial,
> Win32-only situation, I'd be *certain* to use ActiveScripting, which
> *ensures* I can instantiate just as many interpreters as I need (and they
> _shouldn't_ thread on each other toes -- though I have NOT had occasion
> to test this... as threading is another of those "the least I can possibly
> get away with" complications, in my worldview:-).

Okay, do you have any examples on how to use that instead?
>
> Very interest project, anyway -- best of luck!

Nah, it's just something I enjoy fiddling with at home, we'll see if it ever
reaches something near to finished, but it looks promising just now.




From andreas at andreas-jung.com  Mon Jan  8 12:25:36 2001
From: andreas at andreas-jung.com (Andreas Jung)
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 18:25:36 +0100
Subject: ANN: Stackless Python 2.0
In-Reply-To: <3A59E7BB.6908B7E2@tismer.com>; from tismer@tismer.com on Mon, Jan 08, 2001 at 06:15:55PM +0200
References: <3A58EFC3.5A722FF0@tismer.com> <20010108180616.A18993@yetix.sz-sb.de> <3A59E7BB.6908B7E2@tismer.com>
Message-ID: <20010108182536.A20361@yetix.sz-sb.de>

On Mon, Jan 08, 2001 at 06:15:55PM +0200, Christian Tismer wrote:
> 
> The 2.0 port consists of 10 or so files, which can be used
> as direct replacements for the same files in the 2.0 distro.
> I think on Unix this is the right way to go.
> For me it is simpler to have my own litle tree, since I'm
> working with Windows, and I just have to modify my VC++
> project file.

I would prefer a tar.gz archive that contains just the modified files.
With this approach it is easy possible to extract the archive inside
the Python source tree.

Andreas



From mjackson at wc.eso.mc.xerox.com  Tue Jan  2 13:06:46 2001
From: mjackson at wc.eso.mc.xerox.com (Mark Jackson)
Date: 2 Jan 2001 18:06:46 GMT
Subject: Electronic edition of 'The Standard Python Library'
References: <t543m9sebfr4b8@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <92t5bm$qi3$1@news.wrc.xerox.com>

"Jason Cunliffe" <jasonic at nomadicsltd.com> writes:
> I too had had major headaches getting a working copy of 'The Standard
> Library' from Fat-Brain.

Got mine from MightyWords and had no problems.  (I haven't had occasion
to attempt to move it from one machine to another, however.)

> It is a great book, but disabling the 'copy text' feature is !@#$ pain for
> bad tpist liek me.

According to the Preface all the example scripts can be downloaded from
the Pythonware site.  Apparently this isn't true, however when I asked
Fredrik about them he emailed me a zipped archive.

-- 
Mark Jackson - http://www.alumni.caltech.edu/~mjackson
	The power of accurate observation is frequently called
	cynicism by those who don't have it.
			- George Bernard Shaw




From quinn at groat.ugcs.caltech.edu  Sat Jan 20 05:26:08 2001
From: quinn at groat.ugcs.caltech.edu (Quinn Dunkan)
Date: 20 Jan 2001 10:26:08 GMT
Subject: [OT] Shared Libraries (was Re: Deployment woes (was: I will kill my Python))
References: <pr3a6.945$eI2.263837@ruti.visi.com>, <mailman.979852022.13720.python-list@python.org> <947r18$rdt$1@news.online.de> <WV0a6.745$eI2.252250@ruti.visi.com> <4DE7F9DB9399A3C1.D96FC6EFB3F2391E.88AD1775E4555FCA@lp.airnews.net> <mailman.979958548.20793.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrn96ipu0.oul.quinn@groat.ugcs.caltech.edu>

On Sat, 20 Jan 2001 12:49:01 +0200 (IST), Moshe Zadka
<moshez at zadka.site.co.il> wrote:
>Basically, the problem is thorny, the solution is hairy, and the only
>saving grace of Linux is that the packages have concepts of dependancies.

How about static linking?


From mail at codex.pe.kr  Fri Jan  5 18:41:16 2001
From: mail at codex.pe.kr (Ahn, Jae-wook)
Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2001 08:41:16 +0900
Subject: How to DECREF an Python object to return?
References: <934qg0$l07$1@news1.kornet.net> <Nem56.3856$Qb7.504323@newsb.telia.net> <zzm56.3860$Qb7.505102@newsb.telia.net>
Message-ID: <935m5d$s0v$1@news1.kornet.net>

Thank you for your replies. But I still have memory leaks. I have to call
this routine about million times in my python script, the problem is very
serious. System hangs after exhausting every swap memory... :)

I tried to both methods you introduced.

1)

PyObject *res, *tuple;

tuple = PyTuple_New(num);

for(i = 0; i < num; i++)
    PyTuple_SetItem(tuple, i, noun);

res = Py_BuildValue(O, tuple);
Py_DECREF(tuple);
return res;

Memory leaks here... Maybe res must be Py_DECREF also, I think.

2)

PyObject *res, *tuple;

tuple = PyTuple_New(num);

for(i = 0; i < num; i++)
    PyTuple_SetItem(tuple, i, noun);

 return Py_BuildValue("N", poTermTuple);

Memory still leaks, maybe because poTermTuple already exists.

3) So I tried,

PyObject *res, *tuple;

tuple = PyTuple_New(num);

for(i = 0; i < num; i++)
    PyTuple_SetItem(tuple, i, noun);

res = Py_BuildValue(N, tuple);
Py_DECREF(tuple);
return res;

In this case, refcount is 0 and I get nothing.

I thought about another way, and it has no memory leak problem. I wrote a C
function, freeobj() like this.

static PyObject *_mymodule_freeobj(PyObject *self, PyObject *args)
{
 PyObject *tuple;

 if(!PyArg_ParseTuple(args, "O", &tuple))
  return NULL;

 Py_DECREF(tuple);

 return Py_BuildValue("");
}

and called this function in Python after calling the previous one.

    # python script
    res = _mymodule.get_stems(string) # without any Py_DECREF
    _mymodule.freeobj(res)    # Py_DECREF here
    return res

This works, but it's not neat. :) How can I merge this two C modules into
one?

Thank you in advance...

Ahn.







From max at alcyone.com  Sat Jan 27 22:37:50 2001
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 19:37:50 -0800
Subject: [Off topic] allowed to put Python material on the Web?
References: <3a730931.31998180@news.skynet.be> <mf867t0go4en09o0of5r5johp8abgqvg2q@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3A73940E.2637C648@alcyone.com>

Sheila King wrote:

> Technically, once the messages are posted to Usenet, anyone can
> archive and
> copy them.
	...
> Authors of Usenet posts still retain copyright to
> their own
> material.

These two statements are inconsistent with one another.  (The latter is
the one that is correct, by the way.)

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, US / 37 20 N 121 53 W / ICQ16063900 / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Things are as they are because they were as they were.
\__/ Thomas Gold
    Erik Max Francis' bookmarks / http://www.alcyone.com/max/links/
 A highly categorized list of Web links.


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Tue Jan 16 08:59:23 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 14:59:23 +0100
Subject: names
References: <pls86.100769$f36.4497959@news20.bellglobal.com> <slrn964p3g.2f5.andrew.spambgone.chatham@fizgig.dorm.duke.edu> <93umod02iem@news1.newsguy.com> <trL86.74752$n%.3041493@news20.bellglobal.com>
Message-ID: <941k7806l8@news1.newsguy.com>

"Elliott Chapin" <echapin at sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:trL86.74752$n%.3041493 at news20.bellglobal.com...
> Thanks, all! I may approach the actual task I have in mind by designing a
> class which adds a name to the attributes of its instances.

Excellent idea, and probably also best for the parallel thread
"determining names of instances" started by Daniel Klein.  You
will have to pass (e.g.) name='NiceFoo' to the constructor, of
course, unless you want to have it assign 'random' names...:

def Named:
    unnamed=0
    def __init__(self, name=None):
        if name is None:
            self.name = "Unnamed_%d" % Named.unnamed
            Named.unnamed += 1
        else:
            self.name = name

You can use this as a mix-in class (inherit your classes from
it), as long as you remember to call its __init__ appropriately
from your own __init__ (passing along the name-argument...).


Alex






From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Wed Jan 17 04:50:32 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 10:50:32 +0100
Subject: parsing a file [newbie]
References: <mailman.979720698.24494.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <943q0102cua@news2.newsguy.com>

"Langa Kentane" <LangaK at discoveryhealth.co.za> wrote in message
news:mailman.979720698.24494.python-list at python.org...
> How do I read a file.

You open it for reading, then apply to the resulting Python fileobject
its methods read (to get all bytes, or up to N bytes), readline (to get
one line at a time) or readlines (to get all lines, or lines accounting
for up to N bytes).


> This is what I want to do.
> Run a command using os.popen and store the file info that it returns to x

So far, so pretty easy:

    x = os.popen(thecommand, "r")

> Open file x and read the contents.[ contents of x will be a mount output.]

x is already open.  You can read it with readline, read, readlines, ...


> Go to the third column of the mount output and and store in y

Presumably you want the third column _of each line_, right?  Simplest
way (avoiding the intermediate variable 'x') would be one statement:

y = [line.split()[2] for line in os.popen(thecommand, "r").readlines()]


If you insist on using x, you'll need two statements:

x = os.popen(thecommand, "r")
y = [line.split()[2] for line in x.readlines()]


Alex





From kedziers at pkmk486.ch.pwr.wroc.pl  Tue Jan  9 07:04:17 2001
From: kedziers at pkmk486.ch.pwr.wroc.pl (Pawel Kedzierski)
Date: 9 Jan 2001 12:04:17 GMT
Subject: A single, general looping construct? (was: why no "do : until"?)
Message-ID: <93euo1$drh$1@okapi.ict.pwr.wroc.pl>

Hi there,

  I become a python enthusiast a short time ago and even I adopted it
as a programming language for my classes on programming in chemistry.
It allowed to shift the balance of training/applications largery to
the right side :-); However, I also found hard to explain why there
isn't any repeat ... until replacement in Python.

  So it is why I am here :-). The actual hot discussion i have read
on this thread and before indicates that although the topic was discussed
thorough the whole Python lifetime. So I'm not going to add any more
pros as there were so many mentioned. I simply come with an idea,
which seems attractive, so let's have it discussed.

  As far as I understand, the main reason against another loop construct
is the need to introduce a new keyword. Here is a solution, which doesn't
need it. And, IMHO, it is simple, elegant yet powerful:

Let's extend the meaning of try and while.

The try: statement could begin both the exception control and the loop.
Of course, in this case either the except clause or the while one would
be optional.
I would especially like constructs like this:

try:
  f = raw_input('Data file: ')
  f = open(f,'r')
except IOError:
  print 'Could not open file'
while not IOError

What do You all think about it?

Best regards

        Pawel

-- 
--> email: P.Kedzierski at mml.ch.pwr.wroc.pl
    Molecular Modelling Laboratory
    Institute of Physical and Theoretical Chemistry I-30
    Wroclaw University of Technology
    Wroclaw, POLAND



From donn at u.washington.edu  Thu Jan  4 12:48:04 2001
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: 4 Jan 2001 17:48:04 GMT
Subject: why no "do : until"?
References: <92jj3j$ff7$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <slrn94shbe.150.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <X8s36.2731$Qb7.305339@newsb.telia.net> <slrn94smds.150.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <FOt36.17$vd1.2224@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com> <slrn94t1vj.150.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <3A4E95FD.D6C737A7@engcorp.com> <slrn94tqkh.150.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <tpr46.7782$4c.597534@ruti.visi.com> <slrn954h6p.rgv.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <3A52AD6A.62D043A2@engcorp.com> <3A534367.36B1FD18@uswest.net> <slrn957j19.go.amk@207-172-36-81.s81.tnt6.ann.va.dialup.rcn.com> <3A53F4B1.6227D241@uswest.net> <931gf302dsi@news2.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <932d0k$ita$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>

Quoth "Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com>:
...
| Sometimes we manage to convince the current one in the endless stream
| of 'enhancers' that Python is actually better off *staying SIMPLE*,
| because its existing mechanisms afford perfectly acceptable solutions;
| sometimes we don't -- them's the breaks.  As long as the slide towards
| more and more language complexity is resisted, by pre-empting the
| formation of a consensus towards complexification, I still think my
| time and energy well spent.

I sure recognize this sentiment, but in recent years have been able
to convince myself that I don't need to join battle every time this
happens.  I guess just because the dam has held for all these years
doesn't mean it can't wash out this winter, and that complacency may
be unwarranted.  But I wonder if we're a lot of people who are used
to having to swim against the current all the time, and now that we
finally have it our way, we don't really get it.  Hence the occasionally
strident arguments.  Tell me if I'm wrong, but I think we really don't
have to worry.  Before the current "while" thread finally dribbles out
to its miserable conclusion, another one will spring up, and hardly a
day will pass when there isn't someone isn't pushing another syntactic
change to the language, but none of it is going anywhere.

If someone wants to contribute something useful to the language,
make it work better in more environments - problem domains, computer
platforms, graphic systems.  Make it smaller or faster.  Improve the
exception interface in an existing component.  Add POSIX signal blocking
to the signal module, make ptys work on another UNIX (or not) platform.
Come up with a network server class system that doesn't put its sockets
into unbuffered stdio, at the cost of 1 byte unbuffered reads.  A multi-
thread dispatch system that works for a socket client, and doesn't rely
on concurrent read and write access to the device to work.  I have to
go, if none of these ideas is up your alley, just ask here and see if
anyone else has an idea.  There is surely something productive left to
be done.

	Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu


From chris at voodooland.net  Wed Jan 24 09:52:38 2001
From: chris at voodooland.net (Chris Watson)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 08:52:38 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Python: what's the best way to copy files on a LAN?
In-Reply-To: <3a6f0af0.272878461@news.interchange.ubc.ca>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.21.0101240849420.46198-100000@open-systems.net>

> I mean security-wise. I'd like to use FTPLIB but am hesitant about the
> security issues involved in using that plain-text protocol.

scp. Without a doubt.

#!/usr/local/bin/python

import os

host = raw_input("Enter a hostname: ");

os.spawnv(os.P_WAIT, '/usr/bin/scp', ('-v', 'username@%s:/home/username/TESTFILE' % host, '/tmp/TESTFILE'))

os.system("pico /tmp/TESTFILE")

os.spawnv(os.P_WAIT, '/usr/local/bin/rsync', ('rsync', '-v', '-p', '-e', 'ssh', '/tmp/TESTFILE', 'username@%s:/home/username/TESTFILE' % host))

This will fetch a file with scp from a remote host over to the localhost,
then rsync it back after a change was made with pico. But your only
interested in the scp line. Works great, even with RSA keys.

--
=============================================================================
-Chris Watson         (316) 326-3862 | FreeBSD Consultant, FreeBSD Geek 
Work:              scanner at jurai.net | Open Systems Inc., Wellington, Kansas
Home:  scanner at deceptively.shady.org | http://open-systems.net
=============================================================================
WINDOWS: "Where do you want to go today?"
LINUX: "Where do you want to go tomorrow?"
BSD: "Are you guys coming or what?"
=============================================================================
GNU = Gnu's Non-portable & Unstable
irc.openprojects.net #FreeBSD -Join the revolution!
ICQ: 20016186




From dsh8290 at rit.edu  Tue Jan 23 19:15:08 2001
From: dsh8290 at rit.edu (D-Man)
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 19:15:08 -0500
Subject: Python/C++ for graphics vs. other languages?
In-Reply-To: <C561EF78F44BCFBC.695A1531ED4F4EAF.D1609371B72F8907@lp.airnews.net>; from claird@starbase.neosoft.com on Tue, Jan 23, 2001 at 08:52:31AM -0600
References: <mailman.980225485.12027.python-list@python.org> <C561EF78F44BCFBC.695A1531ED4F4EAF.D1609371B72F8907@lp.airnews.net>
Message-ID: <20010123191507.A22850@harmony.cs.rit.edu>

On Tue, Jan 23, 2001 at 08:52:31AM -0600, Cameron Laird wrote:
[snip]
| <URL: http://starbase.neosoft.com/~claird/comp.lang.python/py_GUI.html >

This URL is broken.

-D




From fgeiger at datec.at  Sat Jan 20 09:20:19 2001
From: fgeiger at datec.at (Franz GEIGER)
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 15:20:19 +0100
Subject: Pickling within ASP files doesn't work
Message-ID: <94c6p0$4g5$1@newsreaderm1.core.theplanet.net>

Hi all,

I'm playing around with ASP as a Python scripting host. So far I wrote a
class App which contains users among other things. Users itself is of class
Collection, which in turn wraps dictionaries. To these users I want to add
users, whose names come from form input.

So these users must be stored somehow on disk and I thougt, that pickling
the whole app object would be a good idea. But doing so I get this error:

<snip>
in save_inst save(stuff) File "c:\program files\python20\lib\pickle.py",
line 202, in save f(self, object) File "c:\program
files\python20\lib\pickle.py", line 382, in save_dict save(value) File
"c:\program files\python20\lib\pickle.py", line 162, in save raise
PicklingError, \ PicklingError: can't pickle 'PyIDispatch' object:
<PyIDispatch at 0x41be94 with obj at 0x10f5b8>

When I exec my app as a script, it works. A look into the pickle file tells
me, that pickle not only stores info about the objects pickled but also
about the module containing them. So I found the string '__main__' within
the pickle file. I guess that PyIDispatch or something like that is the
"module" when ASP executes my script and PyIDispatch (or whatever) does not
own a __str__ method.

Anyway - I'm stuck. Any hints? Are there others out there doing Pythin
within ASP?

Best regards
Franz

P.S.: It's Python 2.0. The platform is IIS4.0 on NT4.0Svr.





From jeremy at alum.mit.edu  Fri Jan 19 14:00:01 2001
From: jeremy at alum.mit.edu (Jeremy Hylton)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 19:00:01 GMT
Subject: Jython-2.0 released
References: <mailman.979852051.13723.python-list@python.org> <m8P96.185124$59.49360823@news3.rdc1.on.home.com> <1nR96.8075$Mo6.76257@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com> <MD_96.188628$59.50083914@news3.rdc1.on.home.com>
Message-ID: <94a2ra$tft$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

[Steve Holden explaining to TOm that Jython is not something completely
 different:]
>> No. JPython was similar to standard (C)Python in that it compiled to
>> intermediate byte codes and interpreted them. The smart part was
>> compiling to *Java* bytecodes instead of Python bytecodes. Jython
>> programs can be run by any Java Virtual Machine implementation, and
>> therefore get pretty amazing integration with Java classes. It is
>> possible to have Python classes subclassing Java classes, and vice
>> versa.

[Tom follows up:]
> Looking at this from the point of reference of the Java platform,
> this was not, but is now a compiler.
>
> It sounds really good, but it also sounds like a lot of work was
> involved.

There is nothing new about Jython 2.0 that makes it any more or less
a compiler.  There has always been a compiler that compiles Python
source code to Java bytecodes and a Python runtime invoked by the
compiled code.  There was indeed a lot of work done to get Jython 2.0
released, but there was no fundamental change to the architecture.

Jeremy


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Mon Jan 29 11:47:59 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 17:47:59 +0100
Subject: Wrapping up a C++ class
References: <954496$ues$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <9546rv01ahd@news2.newsguy.com>

<warrickb at my-deja.com> wrote in message news:954496$ues$1 at nnrp1.deja.com...
> Hi,
>
> Could anyone provide me with a simple example of wrapping a simple C++
> class for use in Python (I seem to be unable to find one - I must be
> missing something) - including the details of the creation and
> destruction of the actual C++ instance?  An extra example of dealing
> with virtual methods would also be a bonus!

If you can use the Boost Python Library, you'll find excellent examples
of what you require at www.boost.org -- including creation, destruction,
and virtual methods.

If, for any reason, you can't or won't use Boost Python, then your
life may be a bit harder.  There are other C++ wrappers for the C
API's, but they may not be quite as simple to use -- I have no URL's
handy for their docs and examples.  With the bare C API, there is
no such thing as "a simple example of wrapping a simple C++ class":
you'll be re-doing manually the work that Boost Python (or other
C++/Python wrappers) implement for you.


Alex





From aahz at panix.com  Tue Jan  2 13:27:16 2001
From: aahz at panix.com (Aahz Maruch)
Date: 2 Jan 2001 10:27:16 -0800
Subject: Pythonic concurrency (was: Erlang (was Re: Good introduction to
References: <mailman.977984412.30211.python-list@python.org> <3A4F8E91.3F29F97C@letterror.com> <G6GqJw.1oD@world.std.com> <881A12DF74ECCB7D.31A676568924AC5F.3D8A4DED140164F7@lp.airnews.net>
Message-ID: <92t6i4$b53$1@panix6.panix.com>

In article <881A12DF74ECCB7D.31A676568924AC5F.3D8A4DED140164F7 at lp.airnews.net>,
Cameron Laird <claird at starbase.neosoft.com> wrote:
>
>Naive readers might wonder, why does it matter?  Here's an example:
>you need a win32api calculation, maybe something com- puted by an
>(external) Excel process.  You ask for the result.  Ten seconds
>later, it hasn't returned.  At this point, you might want to tell the
>end-user, "We're still grinding; don't give up", OR start an alternate
>calculation likely to yield an approximation quickly OR signal Excel
>to give up OR ... With a conventional Python architecture, though,
>you can't.  Even if you put the Excel invocation in its own thread or
>microthread, no other Python thread can regain control until Excel
>gives it back.

That's not necessarily correct for standard Python threads (which are
built on OS-level threads).  I know that it's true for NumPy, but I also
know that it's not true for mxODBC.  That is, it depends on whether the
extension is written to release Python's Global Interpreter Lock (GIL);
mxODBC releases the GIL and NumPy does not.  If you want to find out
whether a given extension releases the GIL, look in the source code for
the macros Py_BEGIN_ALLOW_THREADS and Py_END_ALLOW_THREADS.

It *is* generically true for microthreads, though.
-- 
                      --- Aahz (Copyright 2000 by aahz at pobox.com)

Androgynous poly kinky vanilla queer het    <*>     http://www.rahul.net/aahz/
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6

Happy second year of the new millennium!


From gustavo at economatica.com.br  Mon Jan 22 11:37:25 2001
From: gustavo at economatica.com.br (Gustavo Exel)
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 14:37:25 -0200
Subject: DHCP server in Python
Message-ID: <43F34BF0E214BF45.62105031A85CF980.16E4C79317F571DF@lp.airnews.net>

Hello,

Is there a DHCP server written in Python ?

I'd like to run a DHCP server in my Mac and couldn't find a sleek one,
so I thought I might use one written in Python, if there is one
available...

Thanks,
Gustavo


From phd at phd.pp.ru  Thu Jan 25 07:33:03 2001
From: phd at phd.pp.ru (Oleg Broytmann)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 15:33:03 +0300 (MSK)
Subject: Python and postgreSQL ??
In-Reply-To: <slrn96uhcq.1u1.isard@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0101251532500.22776-100000@fep132.fep.ru>

On Wed, 24 Jan 2001, Carles [iso-8859-1] Sadurn? Anguita wrote:
> I've search unsuccessfully a tutorial about "attack" postgreSQL with Python.
> Can anybody help me?

   http://phd.pp.ru/Software/Python/#rgb_example

Oleg.
----
     Oleg Broytmann            http://phd.pp.ru/            phd at phd.pp.ru
           Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN.




From amused at webamused.com  Mon Jan  1 16:13:17 2001
From: amused at webamused.com (Joshua Macy)
Date: Mon, 01 Jan 2001 21:13:17 GMT
Subject: Recursion
References: <mailman.978382742.16948.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3A512AB7.61D1BDCD@webamused.com>

Bob Calco wrote:
> 
> Anyone:
> 
> I noticed the following while dabbling in Perl, Ruby and Python recently.
> Take your standard factorial implementation, a la:
> 
> PYTHON
> ======
> import sys
> 
> def factor(n):
>   if n == 1:
>     return 1
>   else:
>     return n*factor(n-1)
> 
> print factor(int(sys.argv[1]))
> 

 ... snip ...
> 
> The highest value for n you can run in Python is 12; after that you get
> overflow error messages. In Perl, the largest value is 170 (after which you
> get 1.#INF for an answer). In Ruby, you can input a value as high as 763
> before you get a SystemStackError (stack level too deep) error.
> 
> 

  The int() function is the culprit here.  Change it to long() and
Python can go up to 999L before getting a Maximum Recursion Depth
Exceeded error.  I think the 1000 depth may be a compile-time constant,
intended to keep runaway recursions from happening.


  Joshua


From not.this at seebelow.org  Wed Jan 31 16:09:37 2001
From: not.this at seebelow.org (Grant Griffin)
Date: 31 Jan 2001 13:09:37 -0800
Subject: Perl-to-Python converter/translator?
References: <959jsd$njn$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <959uuh01qd3@drn.newsguy.com>

In article <959jsd$njn$1 at nnrp1.deja.com>, Lance says...
>
>I'm an experienced Perl programmer who has just been assigned
>a project that must be done in Python.  I'm looking for a
>Perl-to-Python translator to help me out.  I don't expect to
>write the whole project in Perl and translate it, though.  I'm
>just looking for some automation to help me see how my old work
>could be done in Python.
>
>I didn't find anything useful via Google or Vaults of Parnassus
>searches.  So, I would appreciate any pointers!

I haven't seen anything like that anywhere.  I've sometimes wanted something
like that too, but for a different reason--so that I could actually maintain my
old Perl scripts <wink>.

But I _have_ done a little translation _manually_.  Here's how it goes:

1) The translation process is mostly mechanical.  Semantically, Perl and Python
are very similar; most of the difference is just syntax.  (Still, that "little"
difference is why I now use _Python_ instead of Perl!)

2) Much of translating Perl to Python is a "clutter-removal" process.  You will
remove braces, semi-colons, and dollar signs--stuff that you really didn't need
in the first place.  Despite Perl's reputation for brevity, you'll find yourself
with smaller script files, having fewer lines (at least if you don't write
extremely terse Perl--like I never did.)

3) Most of what's left has to do with what we Pythoneers call "Explicit is
better than implicit."  Specifically, you will find yourself adding explicit
variable names to cover what Perl did with all those special "punctuation mark"
things--you know, the things that look like comic-strip cuss words <wink>.  In
particular, you will find yourself writing more code for regular
expressions--even though they are semantically very similar to Perl.  (This is
something I still miss about Perl: compact regular expressions.  Still, given
that explicit is better than implicit, it is a vegatable that one needs to eat.)

To rigorously and correctly translate any-and-all Perl to Python would surely
take a heroic effort, but to do it at about the 90% level can't be all that big
of a job for the language hobbyists out there (anybody know any? <wink>); then,
a Real Live Human Being could fix the remaining 10%.

But in any case, if you are experienced in Perl, you will find Python extremely
easy to pick up.  And after going through Guido's tutorial, I can think of no
better way to learn it than to manually translate some of your old Perl scripts
into Python.

python-is-pretty-much-perl-without-all-the-LSD-ly y'rs,

=g2

_____________________________________________________________________

Grant R. Griffin                                       g2 at dspguru.com
Publisher of dspGuru                           http://www.dspguru.com
Iowegian International Corporation            http://www.iowegian.com



From andreas at andreas-jung.com  Wed Jan 10 15:13:30 2001
From: andreas at andreas-jung.com (Andreas Jung)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 21:13:30 +0100
Subject: Can't import crypt module under Python2.0
In-Reply-To: <memo.20010110173928.13859A@greencheese.cix.co.uk>; from ncmoon@cix.co.uk on Wed, Jan 10, 2001 at 05:39:00PM +0000
References: <memo.20010110173928.13859A@greencheese.cix.co.uk>
Message-ID: <20010110211330.A6074@yetix.sz-sb.de>

On Wed, Jan 10, 2001 at 05:39:00PM +0000, Nick Moon wrote:
> Now this maybe something stupid that I have done but I would 
> like someone to check it.
> 
> I can't import the crypt module under Python2.0. It works with 
> Python 1.5.1 on the same Linux box.
> 
> Is this a bug? Could someone try it on a linux box and confirm 
> it works for them. (Don't bother on a windows box - crypt is a 
> unix thing). 

Maybe your Python 2.0 installation has been compiled without
the crypt module. You can enable this module by modifying
Modules/Setup.

Andreas 



From hamish_lawson at yahoo.co.uk  Fri Jan 12 06:24:52 2001
From: hamish_lawson at yahoo.co.uk (Hamish Lawson)
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 11:24:52 GMT
Subject: Binaries for mySQL module ?
References: <9%t76.1516$B6.336141@news1.rdc1.md.home.com> <slrn95t2k7.mh.gerhard.nospam@lilith.hqd-internal.de> <t5t4e4holh0e9e@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <93mpi0$3v1$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

Eric Hagemann:

    Are there binaries for mySQLmodule for win32 available ?

Jason Cunliffe:

    Check carefully at: http://mysql.he.net/downloads/mysql-3.23.html

That site has the Windows binary for the MySQL database engine and
monitor. Eric is actually looking for a Windows binary of the Python
(with some C) module to interface to the database engine, which I don't
think is at that site.

Hamish Lawson


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From max at alcyone.com  Fri Jan 12 01:03:49 2001
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 22:03:49 -0800
Subject: Python language suggestion
References: <93l4ve$no3$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <3A5E1D2B.1DC60661@alcyone.com> <93m3r6$fuj$1@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <3A5E9E45.9A59848F@alcyone.com>

Andrew Dalke wrote:

> I believe he means
>   foo.'bar bletch'
> as an alternate way of doing
>   getattr(foo, 'bar bletch')
> 
> not as foo['bar bletch']

That's not what he said.  He explicitly used the subscription notation
and even said "dictionary-like objects."

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, US / 37 20 N 121 53 W / ICQ16063900 / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ God grant me to contend with those that understand me.
\__/ Thomas Fuller
    Maths reference / http://www.alcyone.com/max/reference/maths/
 A mathematics reference.


From barry at digicool.com  Sat Jan 27 10:52:11 2001
From: barry at digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 10:52:11 -0500
Subject: . Python 2.1 function attributes
References: <mailman.980575232.12720.python-list@python.org>
	<Pine.GSO.4.21.0101270135190.7677-100000@y.glue.umd.edu>
Message-ID: <14962.61099.574334.773647@anthem.wooz.org>

>>>>> "RK" == Roy Katz <katz at Glue.umd.edu> writes:

    RK> I find the argument for function attributes weak.  Hell, I
    RK> wish to abolish .__doc__ for functions as well.  It just
    RK> doesn't seem consistent.  Functions are functions, classes are
    RK> classes.  It seems to me even kludgier than print>>.

Or look at it a different way.  Function are objects, classes are
objects, instances are objects.  Objects have attributes.  You can
even set user-defined attributes on many objects.  Now there's one
more object on which you can set user-defined attributes.  In that
light, function attributes remove a previous restriction.

-Barry



From emile at fenx.com  Sat Jan  6 22:23:47 2001
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2001 19:23:47 -0800
Subject: new enum idiom
References: <G6qzLy.6Fo@world.std.com> <938jmh$919$1@animus.fel.iae.nl>
Message-ID: <938nh6$96cqi$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>

"Carel Fellinger" <cfelling at iae.nl> wrote in message
news:938jmh$919$1 at animus.fel.iae.nl...
<snip>
> And the best wishes to you too.  (you know that in Holland
the sixth
> of jan. is taken to be the day that your christmas tree
has to vanish:)
> --
> groetjes, carel

But is the Queen's birthday still a verpligte snipperdag?


hoping-I-spelt-that-right-ly y'r

--

Emile van Sebille
emile at fenx.com
-------------------






From hendrikt at payware.co.za  Wed Jan 10 14:39:20 2001
From: hendrikt at payware.co.za (Hendrik du Toit)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 21:39:20 +0200
Subject: Lib Directory
Message-ID: <3A5CBA68.70916526@payware.co.za>

Hi there,

I am using the mxODBC and mxDateTime modules on Windows NT and Python
2.0.  When the modules are extracted (unzipped) it places the modules on
a ODBC and DateTime directories.  It is then instructed to copy these
files to the lib sub directory.  I am using the above as an example but
my question is more generic:

1.  Should I copy the contents of the directory directly to the lib
directory i.e.
Lets say the extraction directory is ODBC with the .pyd modules and
__init__.pyc in this directory and other directories are ODBC\Doc
ODBC\Misc.  Should the final result then be to copy the __init__.pyc
file in the  d:\python20\lib directory and the rest of the directories
will create a structure called d:\python20\lib\doc &
d:\python20\lib\misc?. This does not make sense because there is already
a __init__.pyc file in d:\python20\lib and there might be other products
with a doc directory.  This will screw up the grouping of the products
in the d:\python20\lib directory or;
2.  Should I copy the entire ODBC sub directory to d:\python20\lib so
that I have d:\python20\lib\odbc with __init__.pyc located in this
directory and the rest of it will be d:\python20\lib\odbc\doc &
d:\python20\lib\misc?  If the later is the case, will python
automatically find the .pyc modules in these sub directories or should I
set dome environment variables?

I am a willing reader.  If anybody can point me to some documentation
about this I will go a find it there.

Regards,
Hendrik
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From chris at voodooland.net  Thu Jan 11 22:12:34 2001
From: chris at voodooland.net (Chris Watson)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 21:12:34 -0600 (CST)
Subject: BUG Python 2.0 FreeBSD compile problem
In-Reply-To: <slrn95sse8.gu.amk@207-172-146-204.s204.tnt3.ann.va.dialup.rcn.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.21.0101112103390.47790-100000@open-systems.net>


> And this points up an annoying thing about FreeBSD; patches are made
> to get Python to compile on the platform, but those changes aren't
> contributed *back* to the original Python source tree.  How can one
> find out what changes were made to a package in the ports tree?

	Well thats not quite true. Many many port maintainers DO feed
their patches back. But I also know that a few application authors don't
like certain groups and sometimes refuse to take said patches. I am *not*
saying python is one of them. I am just saying with over 4500+ ports there
are a few that don't want the patches that are submitted. I will even
write the port maintainer now for the python port and see if he ever
submitted the patches back. From the looks of it, it doesn't look like
python itself was ever patched. There is only two patches in the python
port dir. One 2 line chance pointing to correct locations to install to
because configure doesnt always get it right, and the other adds four
targets to CFLAGS. Nothing ever modified for python itself. So now I
wonder what the original posters problem with compiling 2.0 was. If these
are the only patches I dont see why he needed __FreeBSD__ to get it to
compile. Ill go build the tarball myself in a second and see if it works.

	To see what patches are done cd /usr/ports/lang/python/files. ls
that dir and you will see the patches named patch-xx where xx is aa, ab,
ac etc.. depending on how many there are.

--
=============================================================================
-Chris Watson         (316) 326-3862 | FreeBSD Consultant, FreeBSD Geek 
Work:              scanner at jurai.net | Open Systems Inc., Wellington, Kansas
Home:  scanner at deceptively.shady.org | http://open-systems.net
=============================================================================
WINDOWS: "Where do you want to go today?"
LINUX: "Where do you want to go tomorrow?"
BSD: "Are you guys coming or what?"
=============================================================================
irc.openprojects.net #FreeBSD -Join the revolution!
ICQ: 20016186




From doug at postsmart.net  Mon Jan 22 22:09:10 2001
From: doug at postsmart.net (Doug Ball)
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 21:09:10 -0600
Subject: Python/C++ for graphics vs. other languages?
Message-ID: <000c01c084e9$db7fb500$8a00000a@darwin.net>

 
Dear list:

 

I am very much enjoying learning and applying python, however I find myself tasked with writing a potentially large graphics intensive program that will we speed sensitive.

I would be grateful if any of you could share your experiences with hybrid Python/C++ approaches to such applications vs. using compiled high-level languages like Dylan, Common Lisp or Objective Caml.

I have no real experience with any of these alternatives and would be grateful for any guidance.

 

Thank you in advance.

 

Doug
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From parz at home.com  Thu Jan 25 13:31:05 2001
From: parz at home.com (Parzival Herzog)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 18:31:05 GMT
Subject: sockets: client dies...
References: <94kmt5$cuj$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <94ksfl$r2a$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu> <94ngqn$rph$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <3A6F8AB1.BDF23F5D@home.com>
Message-ID: <Jh_b6.17497$c6.1508938@news1.rdc1.mb.home.com>

It has been my experience (Python 1.5.2 and 2.0 on Win2K) that on a client,
I get an exception if the server closes the connection, but on the server
(i.e. the program that does 'bind' and 'accept',) if the client dies or
'close's
the connection, a server's 'recv' call will return an empty string, or None
(I don't remember which,) and NOT raise a socket.error when the client
 dies or 'close's the connection. This has been a problem for me,
so if anyone can shed some more light on this I would appreciate it.

- Parzival

"Rick Lee" <rwklee at home.com> wrote in message
news:3A6F8AB1.BDF23F5D at home.com...
> You should be able to tell on the recv().  It will throw an exception, not
> just return "no data".
>





From vonehr at ira.uka.de  Wed Jan  3 04:20:21 2001
From: vonehr at ira.uka.de (Markus von Ehr)
Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 10:20:21 +0100
Subject: win32com, COM, MediaPlayer
Message-ID: <3A52EED5.F5F40D62@ira.uka.de>

Hi,

I am new to OLE and COM and try to play Soundfiles with the 
MediaPlayer.
The MediaPlayer doesn't appear and when I try the Play command,
I receive:

File "c:\Programme\Python\win32com\client\dynamic.py", line 207, in 
 _ApplyTypes_
 result = apply(self._oleobj_.invokeTypes, (dispid, LCID, wFlags,
retType, argTypes) + args)
pywintypes.com_error: (-21468283, 'CTL_E_ILLEGALFUNCTIONCALL', (0, None,
None, None, 0, -2146828283), None)

Does anybody know why the Player doesn't appear and why the Play 
function doesn't work? (I tried w.Play=1 but that doesn't work neither)

My Code looks like this:

# Test dynamic policy

import win32com
import pythoncom
import win32com.client

w=win32com.client.Dispatch("MediaPlayer.MediaPlayer.1")


w.AutoStart=1
w.Open("c:\Programme\Python\ex1.wav")

#w.Play()

Thanks for any comments,

Markus


From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Sat Jan  6 09:54:56 2001
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2001 14:54:56 +0000
Subject: Memory Leakage with Tuples and Lists
References: <936h6e$d11$1@news.nuri.net>
 <x7ldJVA2kvV6EwMC@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <936vkc$ol1$1@news.nuri.net>
Message-ID: <ekMLQJAAHzV6Ewpa@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>

In article <936vkc$ol1$1 at news.nuri.net>, June Kim <junaftnoon at nospamplzy
ahoo.com> writes
....
>Well, to make it simple, when I do:
>
>temp1=range(800000)
>
>it seems like I'm losing about 13MB immediately, whereas
>
>temp2='a'*800000 consumes almost exactly 8MB.
>
>When I "del temp1", it frees about 3.2MB which is, I suppose, right size for
>800000s integers, and "del temp2" frees up exactly the same that it took up
>in the first place. 10MB's more overhead in temp1 seems too much, and why
>not returned wholly on the deletion?
>
>ps. I checked the memory status with System Monitor, not running any other
>programs besides Python.
>
....
well I see around 8Mb lost for 
temp1=range(1000000)
but some is regained when I delete temp. I guess that's 4Mb for the ints
and 4Mb for the list of pointers. I guess that M$ has an allocator that
can recover memory (perhaps at the end of the heap). I don't keep losing
memory if I repeat the assign and del operation so I claim that's not a
leak.

The other case will allocate smaller amounts of memory as it's
essentially just 1byte + the pointers. I'm not sure why you see 8Mb not
3.2Mb
-- 
Robin Becker


From hwhite at chiliad.com  Thu Jan  4 16:00:43 2001
From: hwhite at chiliad.com (Heather Lynn White)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 16:00:43 -0500 (EST)
Subject: regular expressions: grabbing variables from multiple matches
In-Reply-To: <JPY46.2909$AH6.513673@newsc.telia.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10101041555180.14979-100000@salmonfalls.lilybay.com>

Fredrik,

Thankyou for the suggestion.  I tried out your module in the
context of my scripts.  However, I find that the sgmllib's parsing 
takes much more processtime than I can afford. I think it just does a bit
too much compared to what I need. I think I will stick to my own methods,
which are more primitive, but much faster.  But thanks.

Heather

On Thu, 4 Jan 2001, Fredrik Lundh wrote:

> Heather Lynn White wrote:
> > Suppose I have a regular expression to grab all variations on a meta tag,
> > and I will want to extract from any matches the name and content values
> > for this tag.
> >
> > I use the following re
> 
> alex has already explained how to use the optional "pos"
> argument to search forward from the last match.
> 
> but supposing you really are out to extract meta tags from an
> HTML document, it might be a better idea to use the HTML/SGML
> parser in sgmllib:
> 
> # extract meta tags from a HTML document
> # (based on sgmllib-example-1 in the effbot guide)
> 
> import sgmllib
> 
> class ExtractMeta(sgmllib.SGMLParser):
> 
>     def __init__(self, verbose=0):
>         sgmllib.SGMLParser.__init__(self, verbose)
>         self.meta = []
> 
>     def do_meta(self, attrs):
>         name = content = None
>         for k, v in attrs:
>             if k == "name":
>                 name = v
>             if k == "content":
>                 content = v
>         if name and content:
>             self.meta.append((name, content))
> 
>     def end_title(self):
>         # ignore meta tags after </title>.  you
>         # can comment away this method if you
>         # want to parse the entire file
>         raise EOFError
> 
> def getmeta(file):
>     # extract meta tags from an HTML/SGML stream
>     p = ExtractMeta()
>     try:
>         p.feed(file.read())
>         p.close()
>     except EOFError:
>         pass
>     return p.meta
> 
> #
> # try it out
> 
> import urllib
> print getmeta(urllib.urlopen("http://www.python.org"))
> 
> Hope this helps!
> 
> Cheers /F
> 
> <!-- (the eff-bot guide to) the standard python library:
> http://www.pythonware.com/people/fredrik/librarybook.htm
> -->
> 
> 
> 




From zalivin at krona.obninsk.ru  Sun Jan 21 21:39:03 2001
From: zalivin at krona.obninsk.ru (Alexei Zalivine)
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 05:39:03 +0300
Subject: pg module, lo problem
Message-ID: <980131091.743086@basic.maxnet.ru>

Hi,

I have a problem with large object in pg module. Anybody work with LO?

After locreate function, object not opened. If I try to open, pg.error sad,
that it can't be opened. All functions work only with opened objects, exept
export.
I use Mandrake 7.0 Linux, pg version 3.1 and python version 1.5.2. Please
help me, because I alredy started project, and can't choose other DB.

Thanks, Alexei.




From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Jan 29 00:12:07 2001
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 00:12:07 -0500
Subject: "in" for dicts (was: Python 2.1 function attributes)
References: <mailman.980637154.18503.python-list@python.org> <3A7496A7.253B7B67@caltech.edu> <qhq259.3jd.ln@tethys.purecode.com>
Message-ID: <3A74FBA7.4CA3F4CF@engcorp.com>

Tom Satter wrote:
> 
> "Nathaniel Gray" <n8gray at caltech.edu> wrote in message
> news:3A7496A7.253B7B67 at caltech.edu...
> ...
> >
> > If I was to ask you, "Tim, is 'larch' in Webster's dictionary?" would
> > you reply, "Yes, it's under 'L'", or would you reply, "No, there's no
> > 'larch' section, just A,B,C,D,..."?
> >
> > (I know you'd _actually_ reply "Look it up yourself!" ;^)
> >
> > "in" just doesn't imply "has_key" for dictionaries.
> 
> Except that in Webster's dictionary, 'larch' IS a key with the definition
> (basically a tree) being the value.  So I would expect that 'larch' is IN
> Webster's.

I think almost everyone would agree that that much is valid.
(Perhaps not everyone, but almost.)

> ...  I would not say "Is 'larch' in
> Webster's dictionary", meaning is the word 'larch' used in any of
> definitions (values) in the dictionary, so at least in this case it is
> completely clear.

What if I asked the following:

  Is "larch \Larch\, n. [Cf. OE. larege (Cotgrave), It. larice, 
      Sp. larice, alerce, G. l["a]rche; all fr. L. larix, -icis, 
      Gr. (?).] (Bot.) A genus of coniferous trees, having 
      deciduous leaves, in fascicles (see Illust. of Fascicle)."
    in Webster's dictionary?

The answer, as with just "larch", is "yes".  This happens to be
one of the definitions, however.  Isn't it in the dictionary
just as much as its key is?

I'm playing Devil's advocate a bit, because, as with 'print >>', 
I think I would actually *like* this particular addition.
In fact, as with 'print >>' I have several times thought
"dang, how come I can't do this already?".

Nevertheless, I can see why some people might be bothered
on one level by arbitrarily saying this refers to _keys_ 
instead _values_.


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Thu Jan 25 07:56:13 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 13:56:13 +0100
Subject: access FoxPro files without ODBC
References: <943qu9$hde$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <947db3$cqi9e$1@ID-50820.news.dfncis.de> <mailman.980420556.5303.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <94p7pc025n4@news2.newsguy.com>

"M.-A. Lemburg" <mal at lemburg.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.980420556.5303.python-list at python.org...
    [snip]
> If you are on Windows, then you can download the ODBC driver
> package from MS (it includes the Foxpro ODBC driver AFAIK)
> and is called MDAC.

This may not true be any more... ODBC is a 'mature' (obsolescent)
technology from MS's viewpoint, and they're gradually removing
ODBC support from the MDAC's latest releases (which are needed
to work with newer MS systems, such as Win/2000 and Win/ME).
[http://www.microsoft.com/data/odbc/default.htm has a "latest
update" timestamp that's almost two years old...:-(].

I'm having to struggle with this 'just as we speak', because
the latest-released ODBC driver for Jet (aka 'Access database')
introduces a nasty bug (a computed-column is SQLDescribe'd as
being of length 2 billion+ bytes if it's a varchar...!) -- that
is the ODBC-for-Jet you have if you have installed MDAC 2.5 SP1,
or Windows/2000 SP1, etc.  MDAC 2.6 has *no* ODBC-for-Jet...
nor can the latest one, fixing this, be had from anywhere, it
seems, except as a 'hot-fix' (read: not well-tested) from MS
support directly (we'll have to open a co$tly support call,
as we have legacy stuff depending on ODBC and Jet that must
now be run under Win2k/SP1, darn... I *knew* we should have
recoded it with ADO and MSDE, but that's hard to justify when
it's old stuff, never changed any more, as long as it runs...).


Anyway, this is a FAQ in the MDAC 2.6 page at Microsoft...:

 My application requires the Microsoft Visual FoxPro? ODBC Driver,
 but it is no longer included in MDAC. Where can I get it?

 The Visual Fox Pro ODBC driver is shipped with Visual FoxPro,
 Microsoft Windows? 2000, Microsoft Office 2000, and MDAC 2.5.

Just remember you cannot install (at least in theory) MDAC 2.5
on the newest systems -- I don't know what you're supposed to
do if you must run ODBC-to-Foxpro in Win/ME (I _suspect_ that
getting 2.5 anyway and some manual kludging may get you home
anyway, but, it's an issue of luck).


Alex





From grey at despair.rpglink.com  Fri Jan  5 16:31:48 2001
From: grey at despair.rpglink.com (Steve Lamb)
Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 21:31:48 -0000
Subject: How robust is Python ?
References: <LOBBJMHOIFOLFIPFANHJAEJFCHAA.zope@TheWebsons.com> <mailman.978716227.31692.python-list@python.org> <9354f9$vbi$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <935dus$cd2$1@saltmine.radix.net>
Message-ID: <slrn95cfa3.lgi.grey@teleute.rpglink.com>

On 5 Jan 2001 16:22:36 -0500, Cary O'Brien <cobrien at Radix.Net> wrote:
>Comments?  Did I leave anything out?

    Other than the obligatory "Don't use Windows for that", no.  :)

-- 
         Steve C. Lamb         | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your
         ICQ: 5107343          | main connection to the switchboard of souls.
-------------------------------+---------------------------------------------


From nils.hensel at online.de  Thu Jan 18 17:29:36 2001
From: nils.hensel at online.de (Nils Hensel)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 23:29:36 +0100
Subject: Using python to call .bat files-- possible??
References: <3A676D38.5D972E12@mail.uct.ac.za>
Message-ID: <947qr2$rcq$1@news.online.de>

That's not too difficult:

import os
return_code = os.system ('c:\\your\\batch\\file.bat')

If you need to get the output of any of these programs take a look at
os.popen (filename)

Nils

"James" <LCKJAM003 at mail.uct.ac.za> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:3A676D38.5D972E12 at mail.uct.ac.za...
> hi all
>
> am hoping to use a python script to control a process that at the moment
> is run by a set of 10 windows batch files.
>
> was hoping i could write a script that would automate my process and let
> me iterate it until the result was with tolerance...
>
> is it possible to call other external programs from python?
>
> thanks ( in advance, hopefully)
> james
>




From pieter at nagel.co.za  Wed Jan 31 21:45:00 2001
From: pieter at nagel.co.za (Pieter Nagel)
Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 04:45:00 +0200
Subject: Dynamically Defined Functions in Classes?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.980958702.3721.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.980958702.3721.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0102010443250.4948-100000@bast.jhb.equinox.co.za>

On Wed, 31 Jan 2001, Jim Meyer wrote:

> I have an application in which I wish to treat the members of a
> dictionary as attributes;

class Bar:
    def __init__(self, initial_dict):
        self.__dict__ = initial_dict

b = Bar({'joe' : 'cool', 'frank' : 'lee', 'ron' : 'dell'})
print b.joe
b.frank = 'foo'

-- 
     ,_
     /_)              /| /
    /   i e t e r    / |/ a g e l



From mwh21 at cam.ac.uk  Sun Jan 21 12:30:32 2001
From: mwh21 at cam.ac.uk (Michael Hudson)
Date: 21 Jan 2001 17:30:32 +0000
Subject: Unicode string output
References: <mailman.980094083.22572.python-list@python.org> <m37l3o26ti.fsf@atrus.jesus.cam.ac.uk> <3A6B1AC3.E4D8582B@stroeder.com>
Message-ID: <m34rys24p3.fsf@atrus.jesus.cam.ac.uk>

Michael =?iso-8859-1?Q?Str=F6der?= <michael at stroeder.com> writes:

> Michael Hudson wrote:
> > 
> > "Alexander Kostyrkin" <avkost66 at f4.dion.ne.jp> writes:
> > 
> > > Surprisingly printing a unicode string that contains a Japanese kanji
> > > character raises an exception
> > > For example
> > >
> > >     print u"\u55f4"
> > > UnicodeError: ASCII encoding error: ordinal not in range(128)
> > >
> > 
> > print u"\u55f4".encode('kanji')
> 
> How about this?
> 
> >>> u"\u55f4".encode('utf-8')
> '\345\227\264'

Indeed.  The answer is, I guess, "it depends", hence why Python forces
you to decide rather than assuming it knows what you're trying to do.

Cheers,
M.

-- 
  I'm sorry, was my bias showing again? :-) 
                                      -- William Tanksley, 13 May 2000


From mwh21 at cam.ac.uk  Fri Jan 26 07:43:43 2001
From: mwh21 at cam.ac.uk (Michael Hudson)
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 12:43:43 +0000
Subject: python-2.1 function attributes
In-Reply-To: <mailman.980510913.2926.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.980510913.2926.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10101261235290.16664-100000@localhost.localdomain>

On Fri, 26 Jan 2001, Tony J Ibbs (Tibs) wrote:

> Michael Hudson wrote:
> > Ooh, I've come up with a strawman!
> 
> I'm ignoring his first option, since I think the double indent will doom
> it, regardless of other considerations, and the variant is more
> interesting:
> 
> > def f(a, b, c) with publish = 1; secure = 0:
> >     print "bobbins"
> >
> > Then you use backslashes when the attribute or argument list get long.
> >
> > def f(long_name, even_longer_name, still_longer_name) \
> >         with publish = 1; secure = 0
> >              grammar = f_grammar:
> >     print "bobbins"
> >
> > Thoughts?
> 
> My first thought is that the examples need to have doc strings to make
> it a bit more obvious how they work in practice. Also, I think it
> needs a ";" after "secure=0" to be "consistent".

Like after the b = 0 in

    a = 0; b = 0
    c = 0

?  But maybe you're right.

> Of course, we already have ways in Python to allow continuation over
> lines and indenting for a list of items - and I'd have said the obvious
> one to use here *was* the dictionary specification, which takes us back
> to:
> 
>  def f(long_name, even_longer_name, still_longer_name) \
>          with {publish : 1, secure : 0,
>                grammar : f_grammar}:
>      """and here is the doc string."""
>      print "bobbins"

Yes, I've realised this since posting.  But this *isn't* quite dictionary
notation: that would be

 def f(long_name, even_longer_name, still_longer_name) \
         with {"publish" : 1, "secure" : 0,
               "grammar" : f_grammar}:
     """and here is the doc string."""
     print "bobbins"

I'm not sure I like this inconsistency.

> But a better result might be to use a compromise, of sorts, and
> "tupleise" it, with syntax similar to an argument list:
> 
>  def f(long_name, even_longer_name, still_longer_name) with \
>          (publish=1, secure=0, grammar=f_grammar):
>      """and here is the doc string."""
>      print "bobbins"
> 
> - this allows the user to "forget" it's a dictionary, and doesn't
> require that (slightly) awkward mixing of () and {} in the same
> statement. In fact this is my favourite so far. And it's close to
> current Python layout rules, which must be a Good Thing.

The killer for this is as I'm concerned is that I'd read this as exposing
publish, secure and grammar inside f, not outside it (kind of like &aux
variables in Common Lisp if you know them).

> I'm still a little concerned about the use of "with" as the keyword,
> though, since it has precedent for uses where the value being defined is
> a "local" constant - but on the other hand I can't think of a better
> word at the moment.

How about "having"?

def func(param) having (publish=1, secure=0):
    """ docco """
    print "bobbins"

to emphasize the attribute-ness one could use a dot prefix:

def func(param) having (.publish=1, .secure=0):
    """ docco """
    print "bobbins"

I think I like this (though I'm not sure about the dot prefix).  I might
see if I can whip up a patch...

Cheers,
M.



From cg at schlund.de  Fri Jan 19 15:06:15 2001
From: cg at schlund.de (Carsten Gaebler)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 21:06:15 +0100
Subject: Is Python2C dead?
Message-ID: <3A689E37.639BB513@schlund.de>

Hi there!

I was wondering where Python2C has gone.
http://lima.mudlib.org/~rassilon/p2c/ doesn't exist anymore. Any clues?

Regards
Carsten.


From msoulier at storm.ca  Sun Jan  7 14:36:37 2001
From: msoulier at storm.ca (Michael P. Soulier)
Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2001 19:36:37 GMT
Subject: shtml in python
References: <93adro$k9n$1@sunsite.icm.edu.pl>
Message-ID: <9z366.240411$_5.53698286@news4.rdc1.on.home.com>

In article <93adro$k9n$1 at sunsite.icm.edu.pl>, Vesemir wrote:
>
>How to write shtml scripts in python?
>what's needed to configure apache server?

    I think you're confusing two concepts here. shtml is a standard file
extension for Server Side Includes. This has nothing to do with Python. If you
are instead hoping to use Python to write CGI scripts, then read up on your
web server's documentation on how to enable CGI scripts. If it's apache, check
the apache web site. They have excellent documention.

    Mike

-- 
Michael P. Soulier <msoulier at storm.ca>
"...the word HACK is used as a verb to indicate a massive amount
of nerd-like effort."  -Harley Hahn, A Student's Guide to UNIX
PGP Public Key: http://24.43.42.96/email.phtml


From tim.hochberg at ieee.org  Sat Jan 20 17:22:45 2001
From: tim.hochberg at ieee.org (Tim Hochberg)
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 22:22:45 GMT
Subject: Different deployment considerations (was: Python & GUI?)
References: <3A674896.C7E52247@crepido.com> <3A698869.198D6263@crepido.com> <301DBDE62C14BD35.683C43A181247CB3.8398E5428BE1B406@lp.airnews.net> <94cm0r01b6j@news2.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <Vcoa6.155292$15.33860760@news1.rdc1.az.home.com>

"Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:94cm0r01b6j at news2.newsguy.com...

> I haven't checked, but, why wouldn't Installer (or other
> such solutions) work equivalently for, say, wxPython?

It does. (There are a couple of tricks one needs to know, but those are
readily answered on the wxPython list).

-tim




From pete at visionart.com  Mon Jan  8 13:14:53 2001
From: pete at visionart.com (Pete Shinners)
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 10:14:53 -0800
Subject: Problems with the re module on IRIX
References: <3A4F432C.386EFFE3@ikb.mavt.ethz.ch>
Message-ID: <93cvuq$6fs$1@la-mail4.digilink.net>

"Yogi Parish" <parish at ikb.mavt.ethz.ch> wrote
> I cannot get the re module to run on an SGI. (1.5.2) Has anybody had
> similar experiences
> with such a problem (make test fails in test_re)....
>
> what can I do?

i had the same problem. i switched the "re" module to
use the "pre" regexps instead of the newer "sre". this
did the trick for me, but there are definitely some
drawbacks. (no unicode for one)

i was told that the problem was the sgi optimizer was
breaking the code in SRE. i good test would have been to
go back and recompile without optimization, but i never did.





From erno-news at erno.iki.fi  Sun Jan  7 16:44:25 2001
From: erno-news at erno.iki.fi (Erno Kuusela)
Date: 07 Jan 2001 23:44:25 +0200
Subject: Thank you (was Re: Should I learn Python or Java?)
References: <HEO56.5504$y9.2881293@typhoon.we.rr.com> <G2V56.5826$y9.3184141@typhoon.we.rr.com> <mailman.978901087.32745.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <kulmsnjava.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>

In article <mailman.978901087.32745.python-list at python.org>, D-Man
<dsh8290 at rit.edu> writes:

| As for portability, Python is much more portable than Java is.

this is true, for most jvm implementations. on the other hand,
python programs aren't always as portable, since python doesn't
try to hide all the platform differences like java does.

| It is also much older

actually it's about the same age, java is from around 1991, iirc.

  -- erno

ps.
please put your text below the quoted text that you are responding
to, that way it is much easier to see the context of your post.


From tim.one at home.com  Fri Jan 12 15:24:35 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 15:24:35 -0500
Subject: Web devel with python. Whats the best route?
In-Reply-To: <_RC76.5766$6i.80004@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCKEENIIAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Cliff Crawford]
> InterTran translates the phrase "Tim Peters" as "[Tim] Godfather".  :)

[Steve Holden]
> So he *is* a member of the

All right, I've had it.  It's time to come clean!  Here's the trut




From mlh at idi.ntnu.no  Mon Jan 29 10:43:39 2001
From: mlh at idi.ntnu.no (Magnus Lie Hetland)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 16:43:39 +0100
Subject: Python vs Ruby
References: <94mdkd$222e$1@news.adamastor.ac.za> <p6qwvbjtr97.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de> <mailman.980510622.2558.python-list@python.org> <877l3h5a29.fsf@hoyogw.netlab.co.jp> <94voh3$5nm$1@snipp.uninett.no> <9505lo$v21$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <95438n$j2f$1@tyfon.itea.ntnu.no>

> > (By the way, your function wasn't altogether correct...)
>
> With all respect, yours is even worse.

I know. I noticed after posting. (That's what you get for being cocky ;-)

Although... "Worse"? In this case incorrect is still only incorrect, no?

Oh, well...

The *correct* version would of course be:

def fib(n):
    x, y, z = 1, 1, 1
    if n > 2:
        for i in range(n-2):
            x, y, z = y, x+y, x+y
    return z

Now, one might ask... Why use the z? Why indeed... :-)

> My version will correctly return 0 for fib(0); your function returns 1.

Well... I thought my version "correctly" disallowed 0 as an argument. I
guess it depends on how you define the sequence...

For instance, (quoting Encyclopaedia Britannica):

> Fibonacci numbers
>
> the elements of the sequence of numbers 1, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 21, . . . ,
each of
> which is the sum of the two previous numbers. The interesting properties
of
> these numbers were first noted by the medieval Italian mathematician
Leonardo
> Pisano.

I believe this was the original version of the sequence. I see that many
start with a
zero... Oh, well...

> And I avoid the range() call.

Yes you do indeed. I guess I just dislike for-loops simulated by while-loops
in generals <wink>, but in Python it seems it might actually be a good idea.
(After all, isn't it true that Python once didn't have a for loop?)

Oh, well. What a discussion anyway... :-)

happy-to-spend-time-on-anything-useless'ly y'rs

- Magnus

--

  Magnus Lie Hetland      (magnus at hetland dot org)

 "Reality is what refuses to disappear when you stop
  believing in it"                 -- Philip K. Dick





From sheila at spamcop.net  Tue Jan 23 04:00:11 2001
From: sheila at spamcop.net (Sheila King)
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 09:00:11 GMT
Subject: beep
References: <11941-3A6D0F37-61@storefull-166.iap.bryant.webtv.net> <gi9b6.91087$y9.17567648@typhoon.we.rr.com>
Message-ID: <svhq6tkqdi6mq196jsbehto2m2i40299b5@4ax.com>

On Tue, 23 Jan 2001 06:13:32 GMT, "Pete Shinners" <shredwheat at mediaone.net>
wrote in comp.lang.python in article
<gi9b6.91087$y9.17567648 at typhoon.we.rr.com>:

:
:heh, i've found that
:>>> print '\a'
:
:does a pretty good job on windows and unix.
:although on windows this plays the system default beep wav,
:it does not send noise to the speaker/buzzer

This didn't work on my Win98 system with Python 2.0 installed, running IDLE.



--
Sheila King
http://www.thinkspot.net/sheila/
http://www.k12groups.org/


From scarblac at pino.selwerd.nl  Tue Jan 16 07:33:59 2001
From: scarblac at pino.selwerd.nl (Remco Gerlich)
Date: 16 Jan 2001 12:33:59 GMT
Subject: Problem with a tuple - newbie ignorance
References: <3A633531.9010303@yale.edu> <3A635C32.9E5285C5@yale.edu> <i1k76t8g9dr5fft0v0phcr98hb6qkdjbaq@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <slrn968fk9.g0f.scarblac@pino.selwerd.nl>

Alan Daniels <danielsatalandanielsdotcom> wrote in comp.lang.python:

> 3) If you find yourself doing the double-backslash a lot (thanks,
> Microsoft!), rather than typing...
> > dir = os.listdir('D:\\statlab\\ssda\\data')
> ...you can write this as...
> 
>   dir = os.listdir(r'D:\statlab\ssda\data')

Also, a / works just as well:

dir = os.listdir('D:/statlab/ssda/data')

It works, but it's kind of secret, it seems :)

-- 
Remco Gerlich


From bowman at montana.com  Sun Jan 21 12:19:11 2001
From: bowman at montana.com (bowman)
Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 10:19:11 -0700
Subject: Ensuring exclusive file locks on UNIX platforms
References: <lqvgr86gb7.fsf@snacks.esol.no>
Message-ID: <1TEa6.7884$d25.47094@newsfeed.slurp.net>

Morten W. Petersen <morten at esol.no> wrote in message
news:lqvgr86gb7.fsf at snacks.esol.no...
>
> I've got a standalone script which I need to make sure doesn't
> access a file while another process is running the same script.

q.v. flock, ioctl, fcntl, lockf in the Library Reference




From Armin_member at newsguy.com  Tue Jan  2 04:51:31 2001
From: Armin_member at newsguy.com (Armin Steinhoff)
Date: 2 Jan 2001 01:51:31 -0800
Subject: SMB Module
References: <92n1lh02evv@drn.newsguy.com> <slrn94vpc7.544.mballen@angus.foo.net> <92pkod011eh@drn.newsguy.com> <3A508B35.1D328941@iit.demokritos.gr>
Message-ID: <92s8b30ddt@drn.newsguy.com>

In article <3A508B35.1D328941 at iit.demokritos.gr>, Vassilis says...
>
>Armin Steinhoff wrote:
>
>[snip]
>
>> 
>> In article <slrn94vpc7.544.mballen at angus.foo.net>, mballen at erols.com says...
>> >
>> >Armin Steinhoff wrote:
>>>>Makes no sense, because a SMB client mapps normaly a M$ volume to a directory
>>>>tree (UNIX) or a virtual drive (M$) ... I don't see in that case any tasks >>
>>for Python.
>> >
>> >I'm not really sure what your talking about Armin.
>> 
>> See above ... SMB clients :)
>
>I think we have a slight misunderstanding here. Please let us remind you
>that unless you are using linux you cannot mount SMB shares since you
>lack the smbfs module which is a smb client actually.

Well ... I was talking about utilities for mounting of SMB volumes.
There are a lot of other 'smbfs' like modules for other UNIXes.
(For QNX RTP ... it's called fs-cifs)

> The SMB client library is very useful 

Huh ... what is a 'SMB client library' ??

>in that respect, thus effectively allows other operating systems to access MS
>>servers.

It allows access to SMB servers ... not only M$ servers.

> Since python offers bindings for
>every other library in this planet I don't really see why such an
>addition would be  useless or inconsistent.

What the heck should offer a 'SMB client library' to that planet since we are
able to mount SMB volumes??

Armin



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Jan 26 07:55:59 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 13:55:59 +0100
Subject: Hack request: rational numbers
References: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0101251759070.28148-100000@kev.ioc.ee> <m3wvbjxs9h.fsf@atrus.jesus.cam.ac.uk> <Pine.LNX.4.21.0101261251120.7303-100000@kev.ioc.ee>
Message-ID: <94rs50026lv@news2.newsguy.com>

"Pearu Peterson" <pearu at ioc.ee> wrote in message
news:Pine.LNX.4.21.0101261251120.7303-100000 at kev.ioc.ee...
    [snip]
> And it makes me think that (some? most?) people want to keep
> Python usage only in web/gui based applications rather than extending its
> usage to scientific computing (both *numerical* and *symbolical*).

Can't speak for others, but, as for me: I'm quite keen using Python
for scientific computing (both numerical and symbolic -- it's my main
tool for my research on the fundamentals of contract-bridge) and in
applications which may have nothing to do with the web nor with guis.

Such usage does not require tampering with the lexical fundamentals
of Python for the purpose of little tweaks to syntax-sugar level
issues -- any more than usage for gui or web stuff does.  Keep it
simple; syntax sugar, we can do without.


> > Maybe.  I suspect not enough to make a difference.  It's mooted that
> >
> > 1/2
> >
> > will produce something other than "0" in Py3K, but I can't remember
> > whether a rational or a floating point result seemed most likely last
> > time this went around.
>
> Though, I'll wait (hope) for Alex's PEP about this and I'll probably try
> to implement `3r' hooks to Python myself (it's just too appeling to me;).

Sorry, I'm not going to write any PEP about this.  The PEP I mentioned
was NOT about this, but rather about having getattr/setattr support in
module objects (or equivalent functionality), and you have already
indicated that this is of no interest here (your current solution of
writing R*3/4 being at least as good as the one of writing r3/4 which
such a change would enable).  Nor am I probably going to write it.

Although having 'hooks on token-level syntax errors' *IS* in fact
quite appealing, I'll admit that -- it may be the dark side of the
force, but the idea of being able to extend (*NOT* _alter_, since
only on token-level syntax-errors would the hook be called) the
syntax sugar IS perversely fascinating (the hook would receive the
string of the token that would otherwise raise the error, and
either raise the error itself, OR return a different string [to
be reparsed], or maybe better a tuple-of-tokens).


Alex





From moshez at zadka.site.co.il  Mon Jan 15 11:18:02 2001
From: moshez at zadka.site.co.il (Moshe Zadka)
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 18:18:02 +0200 (IST)
Subject: Python 3000.  Here we go again.
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0101142011080.14128-100000@y.glue.umd.edu>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0101142011080.14128-100000@y.glue.umd.edu>
Message-ID: <20010115161802.4C974A828@darjeeling.zadka.site.co.il>

On Sun, 14 Jan 2001 20:19:34 -0500, Roy Katz <katz at Glue.umd.edu> wrote:

> - has anyone been thinking about a new design for Python?

Yes. Lots of people.

> - is there any moderated forum specifically for Py3k brainstorming? 

Well, c.l.py is not moderated, but it is still an excellent forum
for Py3K brainstorming.

> My programs could benefit from full lexical scoping.

Python 2.1 is likely to have lexical scoping.

-- 
Moshe Zadka <sig at zadka.site.co.il>
This is a signature anti-virus. 
Please stop the spread of signature viruses!



From daniel.dittmar at sap.com  Thu Jan 18 04:12:11 2001
From: daniel.dittmar at sap.com (Daniel Dittmar)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 10:12:11 +0100
Subject: Relational Databases and Python
References: <mailman.979589896.32678.python-list@python.org> <3A63D5DB.50B7DD0E@python.net> <d$pEguFgAHA.266@fnews1.vi-internet.de> <3A65F0E0.DD744A09@bigfoot.de>
Message-ID: <946c19$sgh$1@news1.wdf.sap-ag.de>

> 2) it has Python bindings, but these are for now binary-only and for
> Python 1.5.2

True, but if anybody needs them for 2.0, I could provide binaries for any of
the supported platforms. It's just a hassle to build them automatically for
both versions.

> 3) the Python bindings are not DB-API compliant but "something
> completely different"

True as well. There exists a module implementing the API which is about 90%
complete (and which got posted to the SAP DB mailing list). But as there
wasn't a general outcry for this missing piece, I hadn't shifted my
priorities into that direction.

Daniel Dittmar

--
Daniel Dittmar
daniel.dittmar at sap.com
SAP DB, SAP Labs Berlin
http://www.sapdb.org/





From ruediger.maehl at web.de  Fri Jan 12 07:54:13 2001
From: ruediger.maehl at web.de (Ruediger)
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 13:54:13 +0100
Subject: Running cgi-scripts on my home Apache server
References: <j92o5t4gde98rlaca47mdglnsdc7uruo3c@4ax.com> <93he3h012p4@news2.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <newscache$gtv17g$1c6$1@www.dzsh.de>

Alex Martelli schrieb in Nachricht <93he3h012p4 at news2.newsguy.com>...
> [snip]
>
>This is what Xitami wants, for example (I don't have an
>Apache installation under Windows to try, currently).
>
> [snip]
>Alex
>
# Intro:
Until now, I only made c/s Python applications using mxODBC, but now I am
starting my first web application. It will be an intranet information system
based on production data from the shop floor retrieved from an
MS SQL Server (the contents of the next HTML page is based on
selections in checkboxes and textboxes of the current HTML page, so
each HTML page must be dynamically created).

# What I saw:
Obviously, you are using Xitami as web server. Looks like this is a very
small and effective web server
(http://www.imatix.com/html/xitami/index.htm).

# Question:
Are you using CGI and/or LRWP in conjunction with Xitami?

# I need a bit help to start:
I would be very interested in any hints, tips or samples.

Ruediger





From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Mon Jan 29 10:43:13 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 16:43:13 +0100
Subject: . Python 2.1 function attributes
References: <mailman.980717974.17843.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <95432j014on@news2.newsguy.com>

"Tim Peters" <tim.one at home.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.980717974.17843.python-list at python.org...
> [Tim, replying to Clarence, who "was somewhat amazed at the addition
>  of print>>, and I assure you that I will never use it"
> ]
> > would-be-more-impressed-by-the-damnation-of-people-who've-actually-
> >     tried-it-ly y'rs  - tim
>
> [Alex Martelli]
> > Would you?
>
> Of course.  You would too; so would most people.  The testimony of one
> person who tried a thing and found it lacking is more compelling than 100
> virgins speculating about why they're certain they would despise it if
only
> they could bear stooping low enough to try it <wink>.  There's also the

Actual experience with using some tool may be a _part_ of what
gives 'impressiveness' to reports that said tool is inferior,
but it's generally not a major component thereof -- e.g., the
tool may have been misunderstood, misused, etc.

> telling fact that Guido rejected Barry's print>> proposal before giving it
a
> test drive in his own code -- pure argument never had much to do with this
> one.

Interesting -- I don't recall hearing about this detail previously.

It _does_ interestingly contradict Guido's posts at the time,
requesting _arguments_ (NOT "experiences") -- which, to me and I
guess to other respondents, implied that the requested arguments
*would* have a bit to do with something; I'm less surprised, now
that I hear this, that said arguments mattered not a whit.


> > OK, assuming this is not just cheap rhetoric, then:
>
> Na, I stopped beating my wife almost a month ago.  But of course it's
> "cheap":  even if I were so impressed that I made it my life ambition to
> remove this "wart" from the language, it's a done deal *and* Guido likes
it.
> It's not going away.

Oh, I do realize this -- Python *will* have this wart forevermore.
That doesn't mean I intend to suffer it *silently*.


> > I've tried it and I damn it worse then ever.
>
> Then I would have liked to hear how it botched *you* up in practice (I've
> read your "head" objections multiple times over the months, and that's not
> the same thing).  You tried it, and what bad thing happened as a result?
> That's still missing (the rest of the msg was about your son).

I thought I had posted (must have been 4-5 months ago) about my
"print>>" experiments?  Briefly -- I took one module that was
using about 20 print statements in two functions (and used the
sys.stdout setting for redirect when needed, from a separate
wrapping function) and recoded it using '>>blotch' on every
print (with 'blotch' a function parameter defaulting to None on
the operating functions).  The small wrapper was not bad:

from [before 'print>>']:

def foobarRedirect(fileob, *args):
    save = sys.stdout
    try: return foobar(*args)
    finally: sys.stdout = save

to the simpler:

def foobarRedirect(fileob, *args):
    return foobar(*args, blotch=fileob)

However, function foobar itself was cluttered by a more
substantial amount than the wrapper was simplified, what with
each 'print x' becoming 'print>>blotch,x' (plus the extra
blotch=None argument to both foobar and the other function,
also exposed from the module, that foobar calls).

This has as little 'scientific' value as any other similar
experiment, of course (which is part of why I find your
'more-impressed' somewhat unlikely) -- it's not a controlled
ergonomics experiment: in the end, the evaluation of "how
readable and maintainable is the resulting code" is about
as subjective and aesthetic as one's original appreciation
of the construct.  But then, actual human-factors controlled
experiments are just as scarce on the side _supporting_
'print>>', aren't they?

I don't think I posted on the similar experience I did with
code previously using flob.write, but it was even worse from
my point of view.  Changing the calls, typically originally
all in the form:
    flob.write(format % (a,b,c))
to print-with-redirect:
    print >> flob, format % (a,b,c),
not only had no observable benefit, but actually gave a
slight problem in a case where an unwanted blank space got
inserted by two back-to-back 'print>>' (while the .write
calls, of course, did not insert it).  But then, I had even
lower expectations this time -- it seems that 'print>>' is
studied to substitute for print-plus-sys.stdout-changes,
not for .write (which is what I most often use for output).

The "lower expectations" may be important -- but I can't
brainwash myself (and wouldn't if I could) to expect the
sky and stars from a construct that strikes me so badly:
giving it "a fair chance" may thus be impossible for me.

Still, we're all humans (or bots), and thus, this is no
doubt a widespread issue.  I've spent an hour or so on it,
confirmed the preconceived ideas I had before I did, and
my opinions about 'print>>' are, as could be expected,

Be that as it may, I'm still waiting to see real-life
examples, in my code *or others'*, where the use of
'print>>' will strike me as "ah yes, clearly the one
right, obvious way to do it".


> > I guess -- and he paid Python the highest possible compliment when he
> > said 'it gets out of my way and just lets me DO things').
>
> Curiously, that last was Barry's motivation for adding print>> (chiefly
that
> the old stdout redirection dance *was* getting in his way in his Mailman
> work).

I doubt my son is currently maintaining years-old scripts chock
full of 'print' (neither am I, I'll admit); if we were, either or
both of us might perhaps see things differently (but we aren't).


> > d. he thought print>>file would APPEND to the file object and never
> >     OVERWRITE it
>
> Well, print>> does append, unless he explicitly seek()'ed to an earlier
file
> position between prints.

It writes to wherever .write would write, right?-)

> > -- at least once tried writing 'print>file' for the latter purpose
>
> Ah, so he's mixing up the functionality of open() and print.  Would he
also
> have thought that
>
>     sys.stdout = open("somefile", "w")
>     print "Hi"
>
> should append to somefile rather than overwriting it?  If so, his
confusion
> isn't due to ">>".  That is, it isn't so clear *where* he got confused.

I don't think he has any problems with print or write 'overwriting'; the
"where", I suspect, comes from his only previous experience with a >> (he
has no C++ background, and I don't think he's doing any bit-shifts yet) --
the DOS command-line (I doubt he still recalls much Linux from back when
it was the Martelli family OS -- that was MANY years ago).

> >  -- and I also heard him complain than then 'of course' input<file
> >     should also work.
>
> So he's actually a ">>" fan who wants to see it extended until it takes
over
> the entire language <0.9 wink>.

I think it's just more of the "unwonted parallels with the shell" syndrome.

> >     Last I heard he deemed it a 'total mess' and swore he'd stick
> >     with write/writelines for his file output needs.
>
> So he doesn't like plain "print" either(?).  Of course he's *welcome* to

I don't think he has yet met with the 'assign to sys.stdout' idiom, so
he may not realize that print, even without the '>>plok', CAN be used
to output text to files other than standard-output.

> stick with write/writelines, and given his Pascal background that's what
> he's used to (btw, did he first expect writelines to supply trailing
> newlines for him?  thinking of the write/writeln distinction in Pascal
> there).

Not sure -- he may have used .writelines on a list of strings obtained
from .readlines so the trailing newlines were already there.  I do recall
a mention of .write(i) not working (with i being an integer) but that was
not phrased as him raising an issue with the language, rather as a request
to explain if .write(str(i)) was OK or whether he should look into '%'
(the latter's going to be a problem, I guess, when he comes around to it,
since he has no C background to understand the rules for the format
string; I'd better write up something for him -- or can somebody help
with an URL about %-formatting already written up for somebody with zero
C background?).


> > but, me, I was impressed that the 'print>>' made up 1/3 of the grand
> > total of his objections to Python -- just about anything else he took
> > in stride and found to work just as expected
>
> I take it he never tried
>
>     except ValueError, KeyError:
>
> then <wink>.

No exception-catching yet, I believe.


Alex





From mitjase at hotmail.com  Tue Jan 23 05:03:20 2001
From: mitjase at hotmail.com (Mitja Semolic)
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 02:03:20 -0800
Subject: Python in a COM?
Message-ID: <pIcb6.714$6a.35057@news.siol.net>

Instead of using the pythonxx.dll is there a python implemented in COM
object?

Thenks, Mitja




From embed at geocities.com  Tue Jan 30 09:55:47 2001
From: embed at geocities.com (Warren Postma)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 09:55:47 -0500
Subject: mxDateTime for Python 2.0 for Win32 - binary PYD file
References: <qAAd6.8144$Oe.37720@tor-nn1.netcom.ca>
Message-ID: <kEAd6.8145$Oe.37320@tor-nn1.netcom.ca>

Okay, I think I feel stupid now.

Warren




From avkost66 at f4.dion.ne.jp  Sun Jan 21 11:19:51 2001
From: avkost66 at f4.dion.ne.jp (Alexander Kostyrkin)
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 01:19:51 +0900
Subject: Unicode string output
Message-ID: <003501c083c6$07d5f6c0$c701ffd2@xandernec>

Surprisingly printing a unicode string that contains a Japanese kanji
character raises an exception
For example

    print u"\u55f4"
UnicodeError: ASCII encoding error: ordinal not in range(128)

Is there any way to overcome the problem?

Sasya




From dale at out-think.NOSPAMco.uk  Wed Jan 31 12:37:41 2001
From: dale at out-think.NOSPAMco.uk (Dale Strickland-Clark)
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 17:37:41 +0000
Subject: Python 2.1 and Unicode
References: <hpse7tc1h31hosvt4ojeu419c531mm76ij@4ax.com> <958gnc0ksj@news2.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <ivig7t0dvpblnqlqa348jop70dbtmd2hjo@4ax.com>

"Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote:

>"Dale Strickland-Clark" <dale at out-think.NOSPAMco.uk> wrote in message
>news:hpse7tc1h31hosvt4ojeu419c531mm76ij at 4ax.com...
>    [snip]

>You may put something like this in your site-configuration script[s]:
>
>import __builtin__
>def astr(x,str=__builtin__.str):
>    try: return str(x)
>    except UnicodeError:
>        return x.encode('latin1','ignore')
>__builtin__.str = astr
>
>to replace the built-in str with a "more forgiving" one to your
>taste.  This won't help with other implicit stringifications,
>though -- for those, setting the default encoding (again in your
>site configuration) may be best, but I don't think that, this
>way, you can specify 'ignore' rather than 'strict' as the default.
>
>
>Alex
>
>
Thanks, again, Alex.

This is where you realise that you still have a lot to learn. 

Interesting idea. I understand what you're doing but not the principles of getting into
"__builtin__"

I'm not familiar with the site configuration stuff. Could I also use this for identifying our own
module library?

Where's it documented?
--
Dale Strickland-Clark
Out-Think Ltd
Business Technology Consultants


From neilh at scintilla.org  Sun Jan 21 15:03:53 2001
From: neilh at scintilla.org (Neil Hodgson)
Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 20:03:53 GMT
Subject: Blackadder - any opinions?
References: <94c6cu$hl2$1@bob.news.rcn.net> <3a6ae6c7$0$37175$1a0eedbc@dreader2.news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <JgHa6.75389$xW4.580766@news-server.bigpond.net.au>

Boudewijn Rempt:
> Anyway, the core components of Blackadder are good - Qt, Qt
> Architect, PyQt, Scintilla.

   ! How do you know its Scintilla? When the announcement appeared, I looked
at the site and the screenshot
http://www.thekompany.com/products/blackadder/_img/BAEditor.png
   and while the main text part looks a lot like Scintilla, the fold marks
are moved to the right of their margin and hit the edge which looks bad.
Also there are unfixed damaged pixels to the left of the editor and at the
top of the margins.

   Neil




From phd at phd.pp.ru  Sat Jan 27 07:47:07 2001
From: phd at phd.pp.ru (Oleg Broytmann)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 15:47:07 +0300 (MSK)
Subject: informal representation of long integers
In-Reply-To: <9ojc6.520$g4.49862@paloalto-snr1.gtei.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0101271546320.1435-100000@fep132.fep.ru>

On Fri, 26 Jan 2001, Randall Kern wrote:
> Good, my faith in python is restored :)  Now if I can just get Zope running
> under 2.0......

   Latest Zope betas run under py2.0 pretty happily. Try Zope 2.3.0b3.

Oleg.
----
     Oleg Broytmann            http://phd.pp.ru/            phd at phd.pp.ru
           Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN.




From sharmad at im.eth.net  Sat Jan 27 01:54:08 2001
From: sharmad at im.eth.net (Sharmad  Naik)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 12:24:08 +0530
Subject: python+postgreSQL
Message-ID: <010601c0882e$f45a36c0$c5a1d4d2@SharmadNaik>

----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Watson" <chris at voodooland.net>
To: "Sharmad Naik" <sharmad at im.eth.net>
Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2001 11:12 AM
Subject: Re: compiling Python with PostgrSQL


> > I want to compile python with postgres
> >     so initially while compiling postgres i did
> > ./configure --with-python
> > later i went to /postgres7-.0.2/src/interfaces/python
> > copied pymodule.c where Setup file is and added a line as instructed in
the README file
> >     but the moment i issue the first command i get an error given in the
attachment
> > Please if possible have a look at it
> >     i donot know what to do.please help me
>
> OS: ?
> Version: ?
> Compiler: ?
>
>
>
O.S : Linux 2.2.kernel
Version : RH 6.2
Compiler : egcs 2.91.66
Python version :1.52
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20010127/0172238d/attachment.html>

From claw at kanga.nu  Sun Jan  7 14:01:51 2001
From: claw at kanga.nu (J C Lawrence)
Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2001 11:01:51 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help!! 2nd Request!!! 
In-Reply-To: Message from "Ben Ocean" <zope@TheWebsons.com> 
   of "Thu, 04 Jan 2001 07:20:46 PST." <LOBBJMHOIFOLFIPFANHJIEGPCHAA.zope@TheWebsons.com> 
References: <LOBBJMHOIFOLFIPFANHJIEGPCHAA.zope@TheWebsons.com> 
Message-ID: <21372.978894111@kanga.nu>

On Thu, 4 Jan 2001 07:20:46 -0800 
Ben Ocean <zope at TheWebsons.com> wrote:

> How can I install Mailman if I can?t install GCC??? 

Find a pre-packaged GCC for your platform of choice.

-- 
J C Lawrence                                       claw at kanga.nu
---------(*)                          http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/
--=| A man is as sane as he is dangerous to his environment |=--



From thomas.heller at ion-tof.com  Thu Jan 25 13:57:54 2001
From: thomas.heller at ion-tof.com (Thomas Heller)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 19:57:54 +0100
Subject: I mean *setup.py* ! ... (more questions)[Re: libraries=['m']inconfig.py [Re: Python 2.1 alpha 1 released!]]
References: <mailman.980447938.31178.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <94psvk$erf9v$1@ID-59885.news.dfncis.de>

"Steven D. Majewski" <sdm7g at virginia.edu> wrote in message news:mailman.980447938.31178.python-list at python.org...
>
>
> On Thu, 25 Jan 2001, Thomas Heller wrote:
>
> >
> > "M.-A. Lemburg" <mal at lemburg.com> wrote in message news:mailman.980419470.4109.python-list at python.org...
> > >
> > > Please post these suggestions on the Python bugs listm, Python-Dev
> > > or Andrew Kuchling who wrote the setup.py script -- the
> > > distutils approach to auto-configuring Python's builtin modules
> > > is very new and still needs some refinements.
> > >
> > Andrew and Guido seem to have zero interest in supporting
> > platforms other than linux/unix.
> >
> > Thomas
> >
>
>  I've gotten some quick responses from Andrew on this and other OSX
> specific bugs I've posted at SourceForge. I think they have the
> interest in having Python supported on those platforms, but they
> can't do the testing on all those platforms and have to rely on
> other folks submitting bugs and patches.
>
I was only speaking of the setup.py script to build python,
not python itself. A misunderstanding perhaps...

Thomas





From syver at NOSPAMcyberwatcher.com  Tue Jan  9 19:01:06 2001
From: syver at NOSPAMcyberwatcher.com (Syver Enstad)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 01:01:06 +0100
Subject: embedding python in C++
References: <934r1a$pda$1@troll.powertech.no> <93a3lp01kpg@news1.newsguy.com> <93b02a$tr8$1@troll.powertech.no> <93cq6n0186t@news1.newsguy.com> <YmE66.99$k25.1060@news1.oke.nextra.no> <93fgim04oc@news1.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <93g8sp$pcj$1@troll.powertech.no>

"Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote informatively as usual in
news:93fgim04oc at news1.newsguy.com...

> I don't know what happens if you don't let softspace be set & read
> (i.e., whether print degrades gracefully or what)
It seems to degrade gracefully in my experience, which is rather small.

>-- note that all
> Python instance objects ARE 'expando' (Javascript terminology) by
> defaults, so you don't normally have to do anything special to enable
> it, but, if you're using your own C-level type rather than a Python
> implemented instance...

Of course, thats why you don't have to have a softspace member in a py
object.
The caller just tags it onto the object when he needs to.






From gustafl at algonet.se  Wed Jan 31 16:09:34 2001
From: gustafl at algonet.se (Gustaf Liljegren)
Date: 31 Jan 2001 21:09:34 GMT
Subject: Design for slices
Message-ID: <959uue$k02$1@cubacola.tninet.se>

I'm learning Python and have a question about defining ranges/slices in 
strings. I can't find any defence for what looks like a poor design, so I 
have to ask. Why is the first character in the string x defined as x[0] and 
not x[1]? This looks just like the typical geek thinking that I'm trying to 
avoid with Python.

Gustaf


From def-p at usa.net  Fri Jan 26 04:18:24 2001
From: def-p at usa.net (Def P)
Date: 26 Jan 2001 02:18:24 MST
Subject: Database-like module in Python?
Message-ID: <20010126091824.25080.qmail@nwcst289.netaddress.usa.net>

Hi,

I started working on a program for storing and retrieving miscellaneous bits
of information. I don't really want to use a "real" database like Oracle
though; I would prefer something Pythonic. In fact, a dictionary would do, if
not for memory problems; having all the information in memory at the same time
is not an option, because the collection of data might grow quite large.
(Speed is not so important.)

Is there something database-like written in Python that I can use? I looked at
dbm & friends, can they be used for this purpose? (I don't know much about
them; since I am not on Unix, only dumbdbm seems to work for me.)

TIA,

Def P


____________________________________________________________________
Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1



From ullrich at math.okstate.edu  Tue Jan  9 13:05:04 2001
From: ullrich at math.okstate.edu (David C. Ullrich)
Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2001 18:05:04 GMT
Subject: Fibonacci numbers/program
References: <936gsv$3r1$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <936r2h0ps5@news1.newsguy.com> <93d92t$7si$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <93fjsd$1cj$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

In article <93d92t$7si$1 at nnrp1.deja.com>,
  Eric Anechiarico <wedjlok at excite.com> wrote:
>
> > Writing to a file is very easy.  You open the file for writing with
> > fileobj = open(filename,"w"), then you can use its fileobj.write(s)
> > method to write any string s to it -- just build the string s as you
> > wish, e.g., str(anumber)+'\n' to emit the stringform of anumber
> > followed by an end-of-line.
> >
> > As for a GUI, you have various choices, but Tkinter is probably the
> > simplest toolkit to use in your case (on a Mac).  I have no Tkinter
> > on Mac experience (no Mac experience at all, actually) so I'll
> > refrain from any specifics, just in case there are specific issues
> > I'm unaware of...
> >
> > Alex
>
> Thanks for your response, Alex.  I was wondering in what context I
> should use that within the program itself?  I am fairly new to Python
> and have not found very many references in the books that I have read
> that would show the exact sequence on when/where I would put that
> string/command into effect with the code itself.
>
> Basically, I am defining the command to
> def FindFibBetween(A,B), having it go through the simple sequence of
> getting the numbers, and then they output them to a screen.  I want to
> interven so that it will NOT print them to a screen, but dump them
> directly into a text file.
>
> So what I need to know is at what point to I call it in the program to
> open a file, write the numbers to it, and then close the file?
>
> Here is the complete code that I use so far:
>
> def FindFibBetween(A,B):
>   x, y = 1L, 1L
>   while x < B:
>     if x >= A: print x
>     x, y = y, x+y

What a clever function. (Did I really write that? There's an
unused addition at the end of the loop, kinda stupid. [Added
a minute later: Otoh when I try to fix that it seems like I
get a more complicated test condition at some point, so
_maybe_ it's not so dumb - the fixes that are obvious
to _me_ add O(number of iterations) to the running time.])

I feel I should try to help here, since I'm the guy who said
someone would help if you asked the question here. I don't know
anything about tkinter. But the following may help:

You need to specify more clearly _exactly_ what you want to do.
(You want the program to write the numbers to a file taking
A, B, and the filename from parameters on the command line?
You want to have the user click a button and then a dialog
pops up where the user enters A, B and the filename? You
want to have a few text boxes in a window where the user
types A, B and the filename, then you save the numbers to a
file when the user clicks a button? You want what, exactly?)

You also need to specify more clearly how much experience you
have with tkinter. (And with programming in general, for
that matter.)

The Python part is easy. You could do something like this:

def FibsBetween(A,B):
  '''Returns a Python list of the
Fibonacci numbers between A and B,
including A (possibly) but not B'''
  x, y = 1L, 1L
  fibs=[]
  while x < B:
     if x >= A: fibs.append(x)
     x, y = y, x+y
  return fibs

def SaveListOfNumbersToFile(numbers, filename):
  f=open(filename, 'w')
  for number in numbers:
    s=str(number)
    if s[-1]=='L': s=s[:-1]
    f.write(s +'\n')

Now one way or another (this is the tkinter part,
and also the part where you have not said exactly
what you want to do and when you want to do it) you
determine A, B and the filename. Then you say

SaveListOfNumbersToFile(FibsBetween(A, B), filename)

and you're set.


> then I input FindFibBetween(1, 100) or whatever range for (1, n)
>
> Thank you for your time and assistance.
>
> Eric
>
> Sent via Deja.com
> http://www.deja.com/
>

--
Oh, dejanews lets you add a sig - that's useful...


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From bernhard at abnoba.intevation.de  Tue Jan  2 07:31:33 2001
From: bernhard at abnoba.intevation.de (Bernhard Reiter)
Date: 2 Jan 2001 12:31:33 GMT
Subject: Reality check PYZOMA = python / zope for  Mac ?
References: <t44t20nmcgena7@corp.supernews.com>
    <04L26.3810$4c.282264@ruti.visi.com>
Message-ID: <92shn5$6c4$3@newsserver.rrzn.uni-hannover.de>

In article <04L26.3810$4c.282264 at ruti.visi.com>,
	grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards) writes:
> In article <t44t20nmcgena7 at corp.supernews.com>, Jason Cunliffe wrote:
> 
>>I am wondering what the prospects are for Python and Zope on Macintosh:
> 
> I would guess that Python/Zope would run fine under Linux on a
> Mac, but don't know firsthand of it being done.

It does run fine under LinuxPPC2000 my Powerbook, I know first hand.
	Bernhard

-- 
Professional Service around Free Software                (intevation.net)  
The FreeGIS Project                                         (freegis.org)
Association for a Free Informational Infrastructure            (ffii.org)
FSF Europe                                            (www.fsfeurope.org)


From nicrayner at hotmail.com  Mon Jan  8 07:50:57 2001
From: nicrayner at hotmail.com (Nick Rayner)
Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2001 12:50:57 -0000
Subject: ok
Message-ID: <LAW2-F27H71yEXUIEAO0000d5ef@hotmail.com>

confirm 438765
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.




From michael at stroeder.com  Fri Jan 12 17:16:53 2001
From: michael at stroeder.com (Michael =?iso-8859-1?Q?Str=F6der?=)
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 23:16:53 +0100
Subject: Using Python SSL
References: <93nt06$4eu$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <3A5F8255.55F71A1D@stroeder.com>

skreech at my-deja.com wrote:
> 
> I try to use the socket.ssl
> function I get SSL_connect errors.
> [..]
> I donno where to go from here, so any help would
> be appreceated.

I can't help you but I would suggest that you try to test your code
against the OpenSSL implementation. "openssl s_server" and "openssl
s_client" can produce a lot of debug output.

Ciao, Michael.


From fimafeng at my-deja.com  Wed Jan 17 22:20:53 2001
From: fimafeng at my-deja.com (fimafeng at my-deja.com)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 03:20:53 GMT
Subject: usage on the time module(newbie)
Message-ID: <945neg$72d$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

Hello:

I'm having difficulty with the syntax for the function strptime
in the time module

For instance. If I have a variable....
fred='Mon Jan 15 00:30:24 2001'

what syntax would I use to parse this into a tuple?
I have tried
time.strptime(Mon Jan 15 00:30:24 2001[])
but I receive an error..

I did not see any examples in the documentation.

Any help is greatly appreciated...
Thanks,
Chris
fimafeng at yahoo.com


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From victor at prodigy.net  Fri Jan  5 19:07:21 2001
From: victor at prodigy.net (Victor Muslin)
Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2001 00:07:21 GMT
Subject: string formatting question
Message-ID: <3a5660f8.626036031@localhost>

An integer can be formatted as follows:

	>>> '%d' % 123

How is an infinite precision long integer formatted into a string? If
The above code:

	>>> '%d' % 123123123123123123L

produces an OverflowError exception. Surely there is something simple
I am overlooking in the manual, but none of the other format
specifiers described seemed to be appropriate.

TIA


From emile at fenx.com  Tue Jan 23 01:45:23 2001
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 22:45:23 -0800
Subject: unpack sequence to tuple?
References: <94j6j1$3na$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <94j9h4$e1aef$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>

How about:

def unpack(cmd=None, host=None, user=None, key=None, *args):
    return cmd, host, user, key

cmd, host, user, key = unpack(1,2)
print cmd, host, user, key

cmd, host, user, key = unpack(1,2,3,4,5)
print cmd, host, user, key

HTH,

--

Emile van Sebille
emile at fenx.com
-------------------


<noahspurrier at my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:94j6j1$3na$1 at nnrp1.deja.com...
> I want to easily read arguments in a sequence into
separate variables.
> Basically, I want to use a Per1 idiom and do this:
>
>     (cmd, host, user, key) = tuple(sys.argv)
>
> The problem is that I cannot be sure how long sys.argv is.
> If it's too short then tuple() fails with:
>
>     ValueError: unpack tuple of wrong size
>
> It would be cool if the extra tuple items just got set to
None.
> If the sequence is too long I would like the extra to be
ignored
> or stored into an "extra" tuple:
>
>     (cmd, host, user, key, extra) = tuple(sys.argv)
>
> This is not a big deal. It's certainly not unclear to
simply read
> each element, but I was hoping that there might be
something short
> and neat that would already do this:
>     host = sys.argv[1]
>     user = sys.argv[2]
>     key = sys.argv[3]
>
> Yours,
> Noah
>
>
>
>
> Sent via Deja.com
> http://www.deja.com/




From fpm at u.washington.edu  Wed Jan 17 11:02:38 2001
From: fpm at u.washington.edu (Frank Miles)
Date: 17 Jan 2001 16:02:38 GMT
Subject: Relational Databases and Python
References: <mailman.979589896.32678.python-list@python.org> <slrn96950d.2hn.ssthapa@ntcs-ip45.uchicago.edu> <J6596.1085$DI.17491@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <944fmu$tmm$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>

In article <J6596.1085$DI.17491 at e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>,
Steve Holden <sholden at holdenweb.com> wrote:

>My reading of the PostgreSQL web site leads me to believe you'll be
>"limited" to UNIX platforms, I can't remember far enough back in the thread
>to determine whether this matters or not.

While PostgreSQL doesn't run _as a server_ on Win9x, it is supposed to
be able to do this on WinNT or Win2k.  Clients exist IIRC for Win9x as
well.  If all else fails you can use ODBC.

	-frank
-- 


From mwh21 at cam.ac.uk  Mon Jan 15 05:39:34 2001
From: mwh21 at cam.ac.uk (Michael Hudson)
Date: 15 Jan 2001 10:39:34 +0000
Subject: Garbage Collection
References: <93uigd$om1$1@proxy.fe.internet.bosch.de>
Message-ID: <m3g0il3xqx.fsf@atrus.jesus.cam.ac.uk>

"Jens Vogelgesang" <jens.vogelgesang at de.bosch.com> writes:

> 1) How can I free used memory.
>     myHash = {}, del(myHash}

myHash.clear() will empty the dict.  The only way to get the dict to
be collected is to remove all references to it.  This may happen
anyway, or it maybe almost impossible to achieve, depending.

> 2) Can I force a Garbage Collection??

import gc
gc.collect()

... but I suspect that your problem is more likely to stuff not being
garbage when you think it should.

More details?

Cheers,
M.

-- 
  This is an off-the-top-of-the-head-and-not-quite-sober suggestion,
  so is probably technically laughable.  I'll see how embarassed I
  feel tomorrow morning.            -- Patrick Gosling, ucam.comp.misc


From tdelaney at avaya.com  Mon Jan 22 18:39:57 2001
From: tdelaney at avaya.com (Delaney, Timothy)
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 10:39:57 +1100
Subject: How do I know all thrown exceptions of a function?
Message-ID: <B43D149A9AB2D411971300B0D03D7E8B0FBDFA@natasha.auslabs.avaya.com>

> I think this covers all worries with backwards compatibility, 
> whilst moving towards a well-defined exception system.

Sorry - all worries with backwards compatibility *except* the basic one that
functions would now need to declare the exceptions they raise. I don't know
how to get around that one.

Tim Delaney
Avaya Australia



From junaftnoon at nospamplzyahoo.com  Thu Jan 11 21:50:31 2001
From: junaftnoon at nospamplzyahoo.com (June Kim)
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 11:50:31 +0900
Subject: Doing the simplest thing with Tkinter Canvas
Message-ID: <cdu76.25288$y97.1802383@news.hananet.net>

"penman" <pen_man at my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:93kgvf$3q3$1 at nnrp1.deja.com...
> How do you draw a point with Tkinter?
> I tried create_line(x1,y1,x1,y1) but it didn't show a point; I had to
> call create_line(x1,y1,x1+1,y1+1) or something instead.
>
> I don't think there is no way to do the simplest thing.
> Can anyone help me?
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
>
> Sent via Deja.com
> http://www.deja.com/

You could use create_oval with a small size.
But I don't know whether there is a method to draw a single
pixel on the canvas.

Best regards,

June.



From fredrik at effbot.org  Sat Jan 27 12:52:26 2001
From: fredrik at effbot.org (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 17:52:26 GMT
Subject: does python have a GUI
References: <TMDc6.984$KP3.528954@news3.rdc1.on.home.com>
Message-ID: <uVDc6.9513$Qb7.1393934@newsb.telia.net>

"shaka" wrote:
> I was wondering if python had also a GUI, or how do I give a physical
> appearance to my program like a window that open and ask the user to enter
> something(not talking about the interactive mode).

http://www.python.org/topics/tkinter/
http://www.vex.net/parnassus/ => user interfaces
http://starbase.neosoft.com/~claird/comp.lang.python/python_GUI.html

Cheers /F




From chris at voodooland.net  Sun Jan  7 18:36:22 2001
From: chris at voodooland.net (Chris Watson)
Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2001 17:36:22 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Web devel with python. Whats the best route?
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.21.0101071733170.29753-100000@open-systems.net>

	I'm about to start converting the small fool proof (ha ha) admin
system I have been working from console based to web based. What is the
easiest way to go about integrating python into apache so I can start
web'izing this app? mod_python, mod_snake, PyApache? 
	
	As usual thanks for the replies!

--
=============================================================================
-Chris Watson         (316) 326-3862 | FreeBSD Consultant, FreeBSD Geek 
Work:              scanner at jurai.net | Open Systems Inc., Wellington, Kansas
Home:  scanner at deceptively.shady.org | http://open-systems.net
=============================================================================
WINDOWS: "Where do you want to go today?"
LINUX: "Where do you want to go tommorow?"
BSD: "Are you guys coming or what?"
=============================================================================
irc.openprojects.net #FreeBSD -Join the revolution!
ICQ: 20016186




From pilou_g at club-internet.fr  Sat Jan 20 11:55:12 2001
From: pilou_g at club-internet.fr (Pierre-Louis Gaucheron)
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 17:55:12 +0100
Subject: [newbie]How to write lines of code in stdout ( like ksh -x option)?
Message-ID: <94cftu$np4$1@front5m.grolier.fr>

Hello,
I am looking for a simple way to write each line interpreted on standard
output for debugging purpose like the set -x option in Korn shell.
I didn't find this information in any documentation, so here I am.
Thanks




From Dan.Rolander at marriott.com  Fri Jan 19 08:44:27 2001
From: Dan.Rolander at marriott.com (Rolander, Dan)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 08:44:27 -0500
Subject: How to run script from interpreter?
Message-ID: <6176E3D8E36FD111B58900805FA7E0F80CCF62DC@mcnc-mdm1-ex01>

See, I knew it was something simple. Thanks for pointing me in the right
direction!

One more thing, is there a way to pass a command line parameter to the
script named in execfile? Say if I have a script to test which expects a
value in sys.argv[1]?

Thanks,
Dan

-----Original Message-----
From: Mikael Olofsson [mailto:mikael at isy.liu.se]
Sent: Friday, January 19, 2001 6:52 AM
To: Dan Rolander
Cc: python-list at python.org
Subject: Re: How to run script from interpreter?



On 19-Jan-01 Dan Rolander wrote:
 >  This doesn't work for me. I know how to import and how to use the if
 >  __name__ trick, but how can I execute a script from the interactive
Python
 >  interpreter? That is, can I load a script and have it run from inside
the
 >  interpreter? (I'm sure this is easy I'm just not seeing it.)

Let's see... I think it was here somewhere... Ah, yes: In Python Library 
Reference, 2.3 Built-in Functions, at

  http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/built-in-funcs.html

execfile (file[, globals[, locals]]) 
     This function is similar to the exec statement, but parses a file 
     instead of a string. It is different from the import statement in 
     that it does not use the module administration -- it reads the file 
     unconditionally and does not create a new module.2.8 

     The arguments are a file name and two optional dictionaries. The 
     file is parsed and evaluated as a sequence of Python statements 
     (similarly to a module) using the globals and locals dictionaries
     as global and local namespace. If the locals dictionary is omitted 
     it defaults to the globals dictionary. If both dictionaries are 
     omitted, the expression is executed in the environment where 
     execfile() is called. The return value is None. 

HTH

/Mikael

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From cpr at emsoftware.com  Sat Jan 13 18:44:46 2001
From: cpr at emsoftware.com (Chris Ryland)
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 15:44:46 -0800
Subject: Python language suggestion
References: <93l4ve$no3$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <20010113154813.2F5A5A828@darjeeling.zadka.site.co.il>
Message-ID: <002b01c07dd0$08bb3510$6501a8c0@EM2>

From: "Moshe Zadka" <moshez at zadka.site.co.il>


> On Thu, 11 Jan 2001 20:27:39 GMT, Chris Ryland <cpr at emsoftware.com> wrote:
> > This migh sound radical, but has anyone ever entertained the idea that
> > foo.'bar bletch' might be a useful and logical extension of Python's
> > current attribute selection machinery?
> >
> > I realize that foo['bar bletch'] is just as good for dictionary-like
> > objects, but foo.'bar bletch'
>
> getattr(foo, 'bar bletch') works in Python.

Actually, this brings up an interesting point.

Why doesn't the attribute reference (primary "." identifier) work for any
dictionary-like object?

E.g., why doesn't

f = {'a': 1, 'b': 2}
print f.a

work while

f['a']

does? (I mean from a language design standpoint, not why doesn't it work
currently.)

It seems like the attribute reference should work on any dictionary-like
object, whether built-in (actual dictionary), module, or instance. That
would seem more Pythonic (fewer special cases).

(And then it's an easy step to

f = {'foo bar': 1, 'bletch': 2}
f.'foo bar'

;-)

Cheers!
Chris Ryland, President * Em Software, Inc. * www.emsoftware.com




From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Tue Jan 16 08:26:05 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 14:26:05 +0100
Subject: newbie: grep -1f file1 file2 in Python
References: <9402sg$d2n$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <941i8j04db@news1.newsguy.com>

<buster2642 at my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:9402sg$d2n$1 at nnrp1.deja.com...
> A common search I do with a shell (csh) script is
>
> % grep -1f file1 file2 > file3
>
> where file1 is a list, one item per line, of items
> to match in file2, displaying both the line before
> and the line after the matched line, writing all 3
> lines to file3.
>
> Pydiom suggestion?  Thanks!

One possibility, depending on what you need to do when
(e.g.) two consecutive lines match, etc:

import re, sys

if len(sys.argv)!=4:
    print "Usage: %s file1 file2 file3" % sys.argv[0]
    sys.exit(1)

res = re.compile('|'.join(
    [line[:-1] for line in open(sys.argv[1]).readlines()]))
out = open(sys.argv[3], "w")

lines = ['==Start\n'] + open(sys.argv[2]).readlines() + ['==Finis\n']
for i in range(1,len(lines)-1):
    if res.search(lines[i]):
        out.writelines(lines[i-1:i+2])
out.close()


Now this is pretty rough -- it assumes the regular expressions
listed, one per line, in file1, will have no unparenthesized '|'
(one could parenthesize to remedy), it will output artificial
'pseudolines' of '==Start' and '==Finis' for matches at first
and last lines as 'previous'/'following', it will output sets
of 3 lines including repetitions when two consecutive lines
match, no line numbers, no indication of which of the re's in
file1 caused the matching, etc, etc.

However, this is the kind of rough-and-ready sketch one tends
to start with, experimentally, before iteratively refinining
this until the desired results are obtained.  Python makes it
very easy to enter such productive 'tinkering' mode -- rather
than hoping to nail down all of the specs BEFORE coding, one
successively refines various prototypes.  This is a must if
the specs must come from somebody else -- as they see various
possible input-to-output mappings, they'll actually _change_
their ideas about what exactly it is that they want -- but,
even when working alone, it's quite handy for most tasks.

For example, we might decide that we never want a line output
twice; we do want line numbers, but don't care about what re
matched; and we want to write to standard output, rather than
give an error, if only 2 files are named -- and read from
standard input, rather than give an error, if only 1 file
(the one containing the RE's) is named.

Mutating the previous sketch to one that handles command line
arguments better suggest a little refactoring to handle more
explicitly the various files that are in play -- this will
also have the good side effect of giving any errors such as
'file not found' as soon as possible:

import re, sys

argc = len(sys.argv)
if argc<2 or argc>4:
    print "Usage: %s file1 [file2 [file3]]" % sys.argv[0]
    sys.exit(1)

file_res = open(sys.argv[1])
if argc<3: file_inp = sys.stdin
else: file_inp = open(sys.argv[2])
if argc<4: file_out = sys.stdout
else: file_out = open(sys.argv[3])

res = re.compile('|'.join(
    ['('+line[:-1]+')' for line in file_res.readlines()]))

lines = ['==Start\n'] + file_inp.readlines() + ['==Finis\n']
for i in range(1,len(lines)-1):
    if res.search(lines[i]):
        file_out.writelines(lines[i-1:i+2])
file_out.close()


This is a little bit better -- although more refinement
may also be needed around the re.compile, to diagnose
things properly if invalid re's are in file1 -- but we'll
focus on the 'no lines are to be output twice' requirement.

Thinking about doing it in a single sequential pass shows
up some complication -- when we find a match, we have to
worry about whether the previous line, and/or this one,
have already been output.  Why worry when we can avoid
it?  "Do the simplest thing that can possibly work" to the
rescue: let's do TWO sequential passes -- one just to find
out what will be printed, one to do the actual printing;
in the first one we just set flags (no problem if a flag
is set twice!-).  As 'flags' we can simply use another
'parallel' list of the same length, initially all 0's
(nothing that must be printed has yet been seen.  Changing
only the last part, from 'lines =' onwards, then:

lines = ['==Start\n'] + file_inp.readlines() + ['==Finis\n']
numlines = len(lines)
must_print = [0]*numlines
for i in range(1,numlines-1):
    if res.search(lines[i]):
        must_print[i-1:i+2] = [1]*3
for i in range(1,numlines-1):
    if must_print[i]:
        file_out.write("%d: %s" % (i,lines[i]))
file_out.close()

We've taken the opportunity to not-output the artificial
lines (we still keep them in the lines list so we need no
special tests at start or end, but we don't output them).

We may be closer to the desired results now -- but maybe
we also want a blank line output to delimit blocks of
consecutive lines from each other.  That's easy, we need
change only the final for loop:

for i in range(1,numlines-1):
    if must_print[i]:
        file_out.write("%d: %s" % (i,lines[i]))
        if i+1<numlines-1 and not must_print[i+1]:
            file_out.write("\n")

And so on, and so forth.  For example, we may decide the
output is now OK but the test before writing the blank
line separator is too messy -- let's simplify it:

must_print[numlines-1] = 0
for i in range(1,numlines-1):
    if must_print[i]:
        file_out.write("%d: %s" % (i,lines[i]))
        if not must_print[i+1]:
            file_out.write("\n")

Better, I think; the simplicity of our code is quite as
important as the exact format of the output, etc, since
no doubt sooner or later we'll decide to go back to our
script for some tweak, and, if we can't understand what
it's doing after a while has passed, we'll be in trouble!

For the same purpose, inserting docstrings and comments
may be good, although commenting code that is too complex
is NOT as good as making it simpler.


Alex





From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sat Jan 20 07:07:18 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 13:07:18 +0100
Subject: Random and whrandom
References: <94bj03$59v$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <94bvb00kme@news2.newsguy.com>

<cpsoct at my-deja.com> wrote in message news:94bj03$59v$1 at nnrp1.deja.com...
> does random call whrandom or are they two completly different random
> number algorhythms? I could never figure that out. And Rand? That is
> depreciated, no? Why is there random *and* whrandom and when do you use
> which?

random calls whrandom.  Call random -- it's the 'higher-level'/'abstract'
module; whrandom is the 'implementation detail' (should have been
named with a leading underscore to hint at this...).


Alex





From tbryan at python.net  Tue Jan 23 21:09:07 2001
From: tbryan at python.net (Thomas A. Bryan)
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 21:09:07 -0500
Subject: If I was recruiting Python people were is the best place to go
References: <94kvqa0g4t@enews2.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <3A6E3943.5A9187@python.net>

Rick Amores wrote:
> 
> Be nice

I have looked for Python jobs on monsterboard.com, computerjobs.com, 
and dice.com.  You can post your job at http://www.python.org/Jobs.html, 
and no one minds a job post here as long as the subject line labels 
it as such.

---Tom


From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Mon Jan 29 10:03:24 2001
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 15:03:24 +0000
Subject: win32 DLL import problem
References: <Pine.SOL.4.30.0101291323540.148-100000@mimosa.csv.warwick.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <KsfjsLA8YYd6Ew7q@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>

In article <Pine.SOL.4.30.0101291323540.148-100000 at mimosa.csv.warwick.ac
.uk>, John J. Lee <phrxy at csv.warwick.ac.uk> writes
>
>ImportError: DLL load failed: One of the library files needed to run this
>> application cannot be found.
>
>but apparently doesn't feel the need to tell me *which* library file it
>can't find.  It can't be _minpack.pyd, because it just found two other
>files in the same directory -- unless it doesn't recognise it as a valid
>.pyd for some reason?
>
>I compiled multipack on NT with cygwin, with the -mno-cygwin switch, which
>is supposed to link against the same C run-time library as the python 2.0
>distribution itself, msvcrt.dll (which is there on the win95 machine)
>rather than the cygwin crtdll, so presumably that can't be the problem,
>but since I don't know which file it can't find, it's hard to say!  It
>does import okay on NT.
>
>Thanks for any help
...
try and get hold of depends.exe the dependency checker and use it to see
what DLL's your exetnsion is linked against/expecting. It comes as part
of the VC++ tools, but it can be downloaded from M$oft somewhere.
-- 
Robin Becker


From hgg9140 at seanet.com  Fri Jan 12 20:52:57 2001
From: hgg9140 at seanet.com (Harry George)
Date: 12 Jan 2001 17:52:57 -0800
Subject: running os commands [newbie]
References: <mailman.979287198.15620.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m3lmsg9q12.fsf@wilma.localdomain>

If you need for some reason to do this via a shell call, a la perl's
backquotes, then see commands.getoutput.

Langa Kentane <LangaK at discoveryhealth.co.za> writes:

> Greetings.
> 
> I want to create a list call dfout[]
> In the list, I want to put the output of the df command.
> How do I go about doing this?  I have been trying to find this in the docs,
> no luck so far.
> 
> Thanks in advance
> 
> __________________________________________________________
> Langa Kentane		| TEL: (011) 290 3218
> Security Administrator	| Cell: 082 606 1515
> DISCOVERY HEALTH		| http://www.discoveryhealth.co.za
> __________________________________________________________________
> 
> 

-- 
Harry George
hgg9140 at seanet.com


From fuess at att.net  Tue Jan 30 09:43:28 2001
From: fuess at att.net (David A. Fuess)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 14:43:28 GMT
Subject: Calling an exe within Python
References: <20010129215504.07374.00004165@ng-fi1.aol.com>
Message-ID: <StJ2OofVRET8+OhA8C3fFJttD34W@4ax.com>

things that execute exe threads in os include ...

execl (path, arg0, arg1, ...) 
execle (path, arg0, arg1, ..., env) 
execlp (path, arg0, arg1, ...) 
execv (path, args) 
execve (path, args, env) 
execvp (path, args) 
execvpe (path, args, env) 

Look in the documentation for particulars. I believe all are modal on
Windows.

You can use fork on UNIX.

Dave

dockeen at aol.com (Dockeen) wrote:

>If I were to use Python as a controller / integrator for a number of
>stand-alone executables, then I would need to call those exe files from within
>Python
>
>(1) Easy question, is this possible?
>(2) When I do such a call, does execution within the Python script wait for the
>exe to finish or does it spawn a new threat for the exe and move on?
>
>Wayne
>
>However dumb you think my questions are, they are nowhere near as
>intellectually challenged as I am.



From nospam at mega-nerd.com  Fri Jan 26 21:22:56 2001
From: nospam at mega-nerd.com (Erik de Castro Lopo)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 02:22:56 GMT
Subject: Tkinter : button size
Message-ID: <3A722DED.74B41DA1@mega-nerd.com>

Hi all,

I'm writing a Tkinter/Python app with a grid of buttons. The labels
in these buttons are one, two or three characters in length. 

Is there any neat way I can force all the buttons to be the same 
size regardless of the number of characters in the label? I've
had a certain amount of success by padding the labels with spaces
and using a fixed with font but I'm not real happy with that 
somution.

TIA,
Erik
-- 
+----------------------------------------------------------+
  Erik de Castro Lopo  nospam at mega-nerd.com (Yes its valid)
+----------------------------------------------------------+
"I love deadlines. I especially like the whooshing sound 
they make as they go flying by."  -- Douglas Adams


From tebeka at lycosmail.com  Wed Jan 31 04:31:16 2001
From: tebeka at lycosmail.com (Miki Tebeka)
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 11:31:16 +0200
Subject: fork, exec and wait on WINDOWS?
References: <3A774C91.40835F30@lbl.gov>
Message-ID: <958m19$s2j@news.or.intel.com>

Hello Nigel,

o AFAIK there is no fork in Windows. You need to use threads.
o If you install the win32 package you can use CreateProcess
o The os module has mane exec* functions which are also available on
Windows.


--
Bye.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
Smile, damn it, smile.

lambda msg: {
 'name' : 'Miki Tebeka',
 'email' : 'tebeka at lycosmail.com',
 'homepage' : 'www.tebeka.freeservers.com',
 'quote' : "I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it."
}[msg]

"Nigel W. Moriarty" <NWMoriarty at lbl.gov> wrote in message
news:3A774C91.40835F30 at lbl.gov...
> I have an app that needs to run on UNIX and Windows.  I have the UNIX
fork() and exec() setup but how doe one do a similar thing in Windows?
>
> Nigel
>




From thomas at xs4all.net  Fri Jan 12 20:30:13 2001
From: thomas at xs4all.net (Thomas Wouters)
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 02:30:13 +0100
Subject: How robust is Python ?
In-Reply-To: <D%F76.7503$6i.96299@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com>; from sholden@holdenweb.com on Fri, Jan 12, 2001 at 11:06:00AM -0500
References: <9358nn$3c5$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, <9354f9$vbi$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, <LOBBJMHOIFOLFIPFANHJAEJFCHAA.zope@TheWebsons.com> <mailman.978716227.31692.python-list@python.org> <mailman.978721929.3640.python-list@python.org> <20010106103938.8FCAFA84F@darjeeling.zadka.site.co.il> <mailman.979313781.1111.python-list@python.org> <D%F76.7503$6i.96299@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <20010113023013.E1005@xs4all.nl>

On Fri, Jan 12, 2001 at 11:06:00AM -0500, Steve Holden wrote:

[ About 'continue' not working inside 'try' ]

> The documentation states that the continue syntax error is due to
> "laziness" on the part of the implementors, though they seem to keep
> pretty busy to me.

It's just laziness in scheduling. Each of the 'implementors' (actually
part-time hackers + some random guys who get paid for it) has to decide at
one point or another what particulare feature or bug (or tuning, as the
recent readline() discussion on python-dev have shown) they are going to
tackle now. It's just more fun to think up something new, and glow in
admiration of how *easy* it is to implement the random new feature (been
there, done that) than it is to dig into something as archaic as the
continue-inside-try problem -- I bet most python-dev'ers don't even know why
that limitation is there, and don't bother to figure it out because it's not
something that comes up often and is easy to work around. :)

But then, they do other valuable stuff, like thinking up good ways to do
weak references, nested scopes and performance improvements. Make no
mistake, I envy their laziness (and free time ;)

-- 
Thomas Wouters <thomas at xs4all.net>

Hi! I'm a .signature virus! copy me into your .signature file to help me spread!



From jasonic at nomadicsltd.com  Tue Jan  2 17:40:34 2001
From: jasonic at nomadicsltd.com (Jason Cunliffe)
Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2001 17:40:34 -0500
Subject: Which Python homesite to refer people to ?
Message-ID: <t54m15jjlqs310@corp.supernews.com>

I have been evangelizing Python to some people, who then ask me wha' the
URL?

I hesitated a second before saying http://www.python.org

Since the Python Y2K upheavals = CNRI->BeOpen->DigitalCreations...Is this
still true?
Where is Python's home now on the web?

--Jason
___________________________________________________________
Jason CUNLIFFE = NOMADICS['Interactive Art and Technology']




From kent at tiamat.goathill.org  Fri Jan  5 14:18:25 2001
From: kent at tiamat.goathill.org (Kent Polk)
Date: 5 Jan 2001 19:18:25 GMT
Subject: Mac aetools (QuicKeys) OS error
Message-ID: <978719232.263588@fezzik.endicor.com>

We have a Python module which uses aetools.py to program QuicKeys.

1) Problem : we get a 'queue element not found during deletion'
error, which is listed as a Mac OS error:

Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "Work1:WrkFlow:MacroProject:Python:nuc_macros.py", line 123, in ?
     MakeGenotyperMacros.makeFamilyMacros(famlist[52:])
   File "Work1:WrkFlow:MacroProject:Python:MakeGenotyperMacros.py", 
line 82, in makeFamilyMacros
     doScript(addFind_script % family['mother'])
   File "Work1:WrkFlow:MacroProject:Python:MakeGenotyperMacros.py", 
line 15, in doScript
     qk.Do_Script(aline)
   File "System9:Python 2.0:Mac:Demo:applescript:QuicKeys_Suite:
QuicKeys_Suite.py", line 53, in Do_Script
     raise aetools.Error, aetools.decodeerror(_arguments)
aetools.Error: (-1, 'queue element not found during deletion', None)

Any clue as to what this might mean? We bumped up memory allocation
for the script but nothing changed.

Alternately, does anyone know how to program QuicKeys other than
one AE command at a time? It appears that one should be able to
load multi-line commands into QuicKeys, we can't figure out how to
get it to accept more than the first line.

Thanks


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Wed Jan 24 08:05:41 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 14:05:41 +0100
Subject: Random and whrandom
References: <94bj03$59v$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <3a6a3540.1976549@news.xo.com> <ei8q6t0ohuded1oiet6qe79e1eco529ote@4ax.com> <94jkh0011gg@news1.newsguy.com> <mailman.980296063.27447.python-list@python.org> <94m9bf$nge$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <94mjv402318@news2.newsguy.com>

<cpsoct at my-deja.com> wrote in message news:94m9bf$nge$1 at nnrp1.deja.com...
> but to get back to my original question. I should import random and not
> whrandom?  But then i notice that seed is in whrandom? Hmmm. so i need
> to import both? And why are there 3 seed values? In C, there was just
> one. and, what then is rand? id that depreciated?

What is 'rand', I don't know: the Python docs don't mention it
at all.  If it ever existed, it's surely deprecated, and, maybe,
also depreciated (depends on how much time has passed, and what
the applicable inflation rate may be).

Whether in C, in Python, in Fortran, or in *whatever* language, ANY
implementation of the Wichman-Hill algorithm will always use 3 (small:
15 bits each would suffice) integers as the generator's state.  That
has zilch to do with whatever language is used for the implementation:
it's a characteristic of the *algorithm*!

The 'random' module exposes "the methods which are available for all
random number generators" (as well as several specific distributions
such as Beta, Exponential, Gaussian, etc, which "are expected to become
part of the Random Number Generator interface in a future release" --
said interface, quoth the docs, "will be enhanced in future releases
of Python".

whrandom is one specific implementation of the RNG interface (it
happens to be the only one that currently comes standard with
Python, and thus the one that module random uses internally, but,
again, that's an implementation, version-specific detail).

Unfortunately, the RNG interface does not (yet?) support 'seeding'
(or the also-crucial concept of dumping and restoring the whole
state of a generator, e.g. for checkpoint/restart; this may be
more general than 'seeding', as a 'seed' is typically a single
integer value while a generator's state may be arbitrary; and
'seeding' does not necessarily support the RNG _giving out_ the
whole of its internal-state, so it can be restored exactly).  Or,
rather, this support is not spelled out *in the docs*.

Actually, module random() *DOES* expose a function 'seed', which
takes any hashable Python value (an integer, for example, will do
just fine) and uses it to reseed the generator.  So, you don't
really need to worry about whrandom or other implementation
details (unless you need checkpoint/restart, like I do).

You can use random's module-level functions directly, or make
as many independent generators as you need by instantiating
class random.generator; the latter is most conveniently done
by calling factory function random.new_generator, which takes
an (optional) seed argument (any hashable will do) and
returns the generator instance.  You may also call method
seed (again, taking an optional hashable argument; if missing,
re-seeds from current time) on such a generator instance.

The only truly important missing feature from this reasonably
abstract interface, as I said, is exactly a documented
checkpoint/restart facility.


> i want to get random numbers, but seeded ones (so i can duplicate my
> run). Frankly i don't understand why python has two random modules in
> its standard library and how these namespaces might overlap.

Python namespaces don't "overlap" -- just avoid "from module import name"
and there can be no name conflicts between separate modules!

It seems reasonable to me that Python exposes both an _abstract_
random number generator (which will meet the needs of 99.44% of
Python users) AND specific (concrete) RNG implementations for
users with highly peculiar needs (the remaining 0.56% of us).

For example, Python users who are calling random.shuffle on a
sequence of substantial length have a need for an underlying
random generator with a *HUGE* period, as a necessary although
not sufficient condition towards ensuring that all permutations
of the shuffled sequence get generated with equal likelihood.

Wichman-Hill has a period of less than 7,000 billions (7e12),
insufficient to account even for the permutations of a sequence
whose length is just 16 (16! > 2e13).  A Mersenne Twister, with
its period of about 1e5982, could thus be very attractive for
users of random-*shuffling* (while maybe not offering much added
value to other users of random-*generation*).  Just for example...

The situation might be clearer if Python had MANY random
number generation modules in its standard library -- one
as the abstract/high-level thingy, and the other N-1 as
specific implementations for specific needs.  I understand
that the Python core developers don't want to burden the
standard library that way, though; after all, people who DO
have special needs regarding random-number generators are
likely to be able to understand and remedy the situation
anyway (although perhaps the specific issue of *shuffling*
is not so fortunate; but I guess that most Pythonistas who
_are_ random-shuffling sequences probably don't have very
high requirements for 'quality of randomness', so this might
be a purely theoretical issue for [by far] most such users).

I personally consider the checkpoint/restart issue a more
serious one, since it IS (IMHO) frequent for a program
that is doing simulations using RNG's to be a very long
running one, at need of reasonably easy checkpointing; ANY
component used in such a program should make it easy to
persist (and later, if need be, depersist) its state (the
'Memento' design pattern, in Gang-of-Four terms, being
quite applicable here -- as long as the Memento object is
itself easily persistable:-).


> It would be great if the random whrandom poop could be cleaned up in
> future versions of python. One clear module.

ONE module, I think, would not be enough -- the distinction
between abstract and concrete IS important enough, after all,
to be worth a little bit of effort.  Clarity will be enhanced
when the Python docs DO document all of the random module's
functionality (and even more when said functionality is
better presented, as methods rather than just as module
level functions -- a "todo" regarding this IS in the sources).

Ideally, too, whrandom should be renamed to _whrandom, the
leading underline indicating it's meant for internal use
and not of direct user interest; before this 'deprecation'
is done, though, I dearly hope checkpoint/restart needs
will be considered in the abstract RNG interface.


Alex





From fredrik at effbot.org  Sun Jan 14 19:21:22 2001
From: fredrik at effbot.org (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 00:21:22 GMT
Subject: Python converts my 8-bit strings
References: <0h6q39.frl.ln@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <6or86.6205$Qb7.904800@newsb.telia.net>

gradha at iname.com wrote:
> When I for example fed string.split with an 8 bit string, all the 8 bit
> characters get converted into what looks like utf-8 codes.

you're probably confusing the string escaping done by
the "repr" function with utf-8 encoding.

    >>> a = "???" # 8-bit characters

    >>> a # uses repr to print the result
    '\206\204\224' # octal escapes for ???

    >>> print a # prints the actual contents
    ???

    >>> a.split("?")
    ['\206', '\224'] # uses repr for each list item

    >>> for item in a.split("?"):
    ...    print item # prints each item as is
    ...
    ?
    ?

Cheers /F




From pearu at ioc.ee  Thu Jan 25 14:55:15 2001
From: pearu at ioc.ee (Pearu Peterson)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 21:55:15 +0200
Subject: Hack request: rational numbers
In-Reply-To: <94pn5g02jh9@news2.newsguy.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0101251759070.28148-100000@kev.ioc.ee> <94pn5g02jh9@news2.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0101252123430.30932-100000@kev.ioc.ee>


> "Pearu Peterson" <pearu at cens.ioc.ee> wrote in message
> news:Pine.LNX.4.21.0101251759070.28148-100000 at kev.ioc.ee...
>     [snip]
> > Python. Closest to the above representation I find
> >
> >     3r/4
> >
> > that uses similar syntax as in constructing Python complex numbers
> > (cf. 3j+4).
> 
> What about r('3/4')?  Doesn't seem all that far off.  Or
> r(3)/4.  These are easy, and just 2 characters (the parentheses)
> away from your dream-syntax.

(
Personally, I find parentheses always difficult to type: I have used to
type first opening and closing parenthesis, then arrow left, and finally
the contents. For example, for typing `r(3)', I would press
	[r] [(] [)] [<] [3]
that makes 5 keystrokes (plus holding down the [shift] key) for something
that could have been inserted only with 2 keystrokes: [3] [r].
That's my personal convention, ignore it if you don't like it ;)
)

> But there may be something better...
> 
> r3/4 would work if your module could have a __getattr__ (and if
> you could reserve in your modules all variables of the form 'r\d+'),
> as would 3/r4.  I suspect you stand a slightly better chance to
> get some form of __getattr__ (and __setattr__) into modules, 

I would not like that: that makes infinitely many reserved names.

But your suggestions have made me come up with the following *working*
solution:

>>> from gmpy import *
>>> R = mpq(1)          # generator of rational numbers
>>> R*3/4
mpq(3,4)

that is, only one (capital or not) reserved name is needed!

Though, I would prefer that

>>> 3r
  File "<stdin>", line 1
    3r
     ^
SyntaxError: invalid syntax

would do something useful;) I think that my suggestion (in my previous
mail) will not break any existing Python code, it just extends Python
syntax. But that's up to whether such an extension is interesting to you.

Thanks,
	Pearu



From max at alcyone.com  Sun Jan 28 19:28:18 2001
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 16:28:18 -0800
Subject: Hack request: rational numbers
References: <951h34$tch$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, <Pine.LNX.4.21.0101251759070.28148-100000@kev.ioc.ee> <mailman.980702855.389.python-list@python.org> <2W%c6.128157$ge4.46108705@news2.rdc2.tx.home.com> <3A749696.2BD57BA9@alcyone.com> <4G2d6.128417$ge4.46434631@news2.rdc2.tx.home.com>
Message-ID: <3A74B922.F62E9F5F@alcyone.com>

Rainer Deyke wrote:

> It serves no real purpose except in some fairly specialized fields,
> but it
> is easy to implement, doesn't get in the way, and is "fun" - just like
> the
> current built-in support for complex numbers.

So you can always write a hypercomplex or geometric algebra module with
little difficulty.  Including quaternion support in the language itself
seems like overkill.

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, US / 37 20 N 121 53 W / ICQ16063900 / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Love is the triumph of imagination over intelligence.
\__/ H.L. Mencken
    Alcyone Systems' CatCam / http://www.catcam.com/
 What do your pets do all day while you're at work?  Find out.


From sbalu at nyx.net  Mon Jan 22 18:46:32 2001
From: sbalu at nyx.net (sarayu balu)
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 23:46:32 GMT
Subject: Newbie Question
References: <980192858.449719@iris.nyx.net> <mtzogjp8f6.fsf@astron.berkeley.edu>
Message-ID: <980209431.708582@iris.nyx.net>

Johann Hibschman <johann at physics.berkeley.edu> wrote:

: Which version of gtk/glib are you using?  I'm using python 2.0 with
: gtk 1.2.6 and 1.2.8 without problem, using pygtk-0.6.6.
 I am using 1.2.8.
Thanks,
-SB

: -- 
: Johann Hibschman                           johann at physics.berkeley.edu


From earnoth at my-deja.com  Tue Jan 16 21:47:28 2001
From: earnoth at my-deja.com (earnoth at my-deja.com)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 02:47:28 GMT
Subject: is Python fully object oriented ?
References: <mailman.979602439.9581.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <94313u$tl6$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

In article <mailman.979602439.9581.python-list at python.org>,
  "Delaney, Timothy" <tdelaney at avaya.com> wrote:
> Oh - avoiding this technique does not magically make the danger go away.
> However, *using* this technique is an almost guaranteed sure-fire way to
> stuff things up in a multi-threaded app.
>
> The problem is, multiple threads can be executing the same bit of code at
> the same time. This is a problem with *any* system which accesses shared
> data - whether it be multi-threaded, multiple apps accessing the same file,
> etc.

What if the class extends Thread, and multiple instances run the same
function?  Would the problems outlined in the previous message still apply? 
For example:

class c(Thread):

 def __init__(self):
   a = 1
   Thread.__init__(self)

 def run(self):
   print self.f()

 def f (self):
   c.a = 2
   c.a = c.a + 1
   return c.a


myc1 = c()
myc2 = c()
myc1.start()
myc2.start()

Would the execution order outlined in the previous posting:


 A: c.a = 2
 A: c.a = c.a + 1
 B: c.a = 2
 A: return c.a (returns 2)
 B: c.a = c.a + 1
 B: return c.a (returns 3)


Still have the same results?  Or would each instance have its own set of
local variables for all functions?

-Eric


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From thomas at xs4all.net  Fri Jan 12 20:32:53 2001
From: thomas at xs4all.net (Thomas Wouters)
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 02:32:53 +0100
Subject: How robust is Python ?
In-Reply-To: <20010113093645.012A0A82D@darjeeling.zadka.site.co.il>; from moshez@zadka.site.co.il on Sat, Jan 13, 2001 at 11:36:45AM +0200
References: <03d501c07cad$3a8a4320$020000c3@node02>, <9358nn$3c5$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, <9354f9$vbi$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, <LOBBJMHOIFOLFIPFANHJAEJFCHAA.zope@TheWebsons.com> <mailman.978716227.31692.python-list@python.org> <mailman.978721929.3640.python-list@python.org> <20010106103938.8FCAFA84F@darjeeling.zadka.site.co.il> <03d501c07cad$3a8a4320$020000c3@node02> <20010113093645.012A0A82D@darjeeling.zadka.site.co.il>
Message-ID: <20010113023253.F1005@xs4all.nl>

On Sat, Jan 13, 2001 at 11:36:45AM +0200, Moshe Zadka wrote:
> On Fri, 12 Jan 2001, "Sandipan Gangopadhyay" <sandipan at vsnl.com> wrote:

> > If I try a catch-all except, continue hits except on the outer level rather
> > than while. Probably the reason that it results in syntax error.
> > 
> > while binAliveMarker:
> >   try:
> >     if binWannaStartAgainLater:
> >       time.sleep(1)
> >       continue
> >     work code ...
> >   except:
> >     pass
> > 
> > Any suggestions to make it work with continue (or an alternative) ? Apart
> > from removing continue completely by making the work code inside an else ?

> I'm afraid that's your only alternative, unless you can afford to wait
> for Python 2.1 or switch to JPython, both of which support continue
> inside a try clause.

Moshe is forgetting:

ContinueMePleaseError = "please continue" # or a class if you prefer that
while binAliveMarker:
  try:
    if binWannaStartAgainLater:
      time.sleep(1)
      raise ContinueMePleaseError
    work code ...
  except ContinueMePleaseError:
    continue
  except:
    pass

which is the usual way of working around it (other than reworking your code,
that is.)

-- 
Thomas Wouters <thomas at xs4all.net>

Hi! I'm a .signature virus! copy me into your .signature file to help me spread!



From fabrice.n at home.com  Sat Jan 27 00:06:27 2001
From: fabrice.n at home.com (shaka)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 05:06:27 GMT
Subject: undefined variable
Message-ID: <nHsc6.252522$59.63479549@news3.rdc1.on.home.com>

 hi, I am a beginner learning python, and I have notice that in python
variale are not declared or defined. But does it mean that your cannot use
the same variable twice and all your variable have to be of different name.
In java you can have a variable of the same name but of different type and
it makes programming much more flexible.




From rcameszREMOVETHIS at dds.removethistoo.nl  Fri Jan 12 21:28:19 2001
From: rcameszREMOVETHIS at dds.removethistoo.nl (Robert Amesz)
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 02:28:19 GMT
Subject: new enum idiom
References: <G6qzLy.6Fo@world.std.com> <938jmh$919$1@animus.fel.iae.nl> <3A58B9C0.9F2A5CC0@collins.rockwell.com> <93an8v02d2n@news1.newsguy.com> <93dde1$8d2$1@animus.fel.iae.nl> <93f3nb023mv@news1.newsguy.com> <90259DC4Arcamesz@127.0.0.1> <93i57b01qms@news2.newsguy.com> <90268BCE3rcamesz@127.0.0.1> <93kb0m0r3s@news1.newsguy.com> <90273B4rcamesz@127.0.0.1> <93mlct0gse@news1.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <902827F55rcamesz@127.0.0.1>

Alex Martelli wrote:

> [Does the % operator need a tuple?]
>
>>>> print "foo%dbar" % 23
>foo23bar
>>>>

Ah, I stand corrected. And I really should have checked this myself, 
sorry about that. Especially as that would have taken less time than 
typing that part of the reply. Silly me.


> [Arguing aesthetics]
>
>Counterpoints would include "it's nicer to have all strings than 
>some strings and some tuples", and "other languages allowing such 
>explicit specs [C/C++ only, AFAIK] use the name=value syntax, so 
>that will be easier to read for people coming from those 
>languages".

Those are good points as well. As was the case with mine, these too are 
aesthetic arguments, and discussions about personal preferences isn't 
going to settle the issue, which is a minor one anyway.


>But I'm just arguing for argument's sake -- it's an obscure corner 
>of an obscure idiom, and both usages look pretty much OK to me for
>something likely to see frequencies as low as this. 

True. Personally, I'd say this 'obscure corner' has gotten as much 
attention as it warrants.


Robert Amesz


From rzilavec at tcn.net  Thu Jan 18 22:36:40 2001
From: rzilavec at tcn.net (Richard Zilavec)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 03:36:40 GMT
Subject: This is my first program in Python
References: <3a66a585.268350144@news.tcn.net> <W9C96.6257$rw.65347@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <3a67b377.337467191@news.tcn.net>

On Thu, 18 Jan 2001 08:21:47 -0500, "Steve Holden"
<sholden at holdenweb.com> wrote:

>Very Pythonic! The parentheses are unnecessaary in the assignment, but
>that's a nit. Also, in Python 2 you could replace string.split(line, ":", 1)
>with line.split(':', 1), and avoid the need to import the string module. But
>that's another nit. This is a good program.

I'm currently using Python 1.52, it came with the version of Linux I
installed.  My book is also based on it, so I don't think its a bad
thing for now.  The parentheses are my Perl instincts.....

>> This was my first attempt, which looks like it should work but failed:
>> invalid syntax.  Is this not possible?
>> while line = file.readlines():
>>
>The assignment has deliberately been designated a statement rather than an
>expression,

I now see why it didn't work, thank you.

Thanks

--
 Richard Zilavec
 rzilavec at tcn.net


From moshez at zadka.site.co.il  Mon Jan 15 18:46:53 2001
From: moshez at zadka.site.co.il (Moshe Zadka)
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 01:46:53 +0200 (IST)
Subject: Python 3000. Here we go again.
In-Reply-To: <93v2pl$f14$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
References: <93v2pl$f14$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, <Pine.GSO.4.21.0101142011080.14128-100000@y.glue.umd.edu>
Message-ID: <20010115234653.EE6BAA828@darjeeling.zadka.site.co.il>

On Mon, 15 Jan 2001 14:51:37 GMT, rturpin at my-deja.com wrote:

> Of course, those of us with some amount of production
> code written in Python 1.x and 2.x have a very hard
> desire for Python 3K: backward compatibility.

I suspect that this won't be a very big problem in reality. While
Py3K might be quite a bit less backward compatible with older Python
code, I think it will be very easy to compensate for these backwards
compatabilities. Besides, the schedule for 3K is quite amorphous,
and there will be probably a 2.x release while 3K is being developed --
I'm betting it will have warnings for all features that might hurt
portability to Py3K.
-- 
Moshe Zadka <sig at zadka.site.co.il>
This is a signature anti-virus. 
Please stop the spread of signature viruses!



From ssurland at online.no  Mon Jan  1 10:02:50 2001
From: ssurland at online.no (Stein Surland)
Date: Mon, 01 Jan 2001 16:02:50 +0100
Subject: Defining and calling functions in Python
Message-ID: <3A509C1A.57502916@online.no>

I have this function:

def WriteToFile(Outfile, Filecontent):
    Utopened = []
    Utopened = open(Outfile, 'w')
    Utopened.write(string.join(Filecontent,'\n'))
    Utopened.close()

When this function is called with:
     
     WriteToFile('file.txt', 'Some text')

before the function is declared, I get this error message:

Traceback (innermost last):
  File "./RPMParser.py", line 21, in ?
    WriteToFile('file.txt', 'Some text')
NameError: WriteToFile 


But when I move the functioncall after the definition, it works OK. What
am I missing
here? I thought, as Python is an interpreted language, that I didn't
need to "declare in order", as in C++?

Stein
-- 

Stein Surland			  Trying is the first step towards failure
ssurland at online.no			- Homer Simpson
http://home.online.no/~ssurland/


From amk at mira.erols.com  Wed Jan 17 21:11:39 2001
From: amk at mira.erols.com (A.M. Kuchling)
Date: 18 Jan 2001 02:11:39 GMT
Subject: Python FTP module
References: <MPG.14d0f6f1f4045a62989682@news.syd.connect.com.au>
Message-ID: <slrn96cl0r.2o4.amk@207-172-111-159.s159.tnt1.ann.va.dialup.rcn.com>

On Thu, 18 Jan 2001 12:50:27 +1000, 
	Realware Systems <derek at realware.com.au> wrote:
>I am sure there is a python FTP module but I don't know where it is or 
>what it is called. Any ideas?

ftplib; part of the standard library.  See
http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/module-ftplib.html .

--amk



From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Mon Jan  8 08:19:37 2001
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 13:19:37 +0000
Subject: How to set up an XML-RPC server (newbie)
References: <3A59B00B.4CB407D3@fast.no>
Message-ID: <h$hZIgAp5bW6Ew2C@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>

In article <3A59B00B.4CB407D3 at fast.no>, Torkil Grindstein
<torkil at fast.no> writes
>Hi.
>
>I'm totally new to xml-rpc, and relatively new to python.
>
>I just want to set up xml-rpc, to play around with in the
>first place.
>
>I guess I would have to set up an xml-rpc server first, but
>I can't find out how to do it in python. However I found a
>step-by-step manual using Zope. Do I need to install that,
>or what?
>
>Anyways, I'm using Mandrake 7.2 linux, python 1.5.2-13,
>python-xmlrpc-1.0-8
>
>I really could use some hints to get going.
>
>Thanks,
for simplicity you should try F Lundh/Pythonware's

http://www.pythonware.com/downloads/xmlrpc-0.9.8-990621.zip

pure python and very small. You'll need python of course.
-- 
Robin Becker


From fredrik at effbot.org  Tue Jan 30 16:29:27 2001
From: fredrik at effbot.org (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 21:29:27 GMT
Subject: Fatal Python error: Interpreter not initialized (version mismatch?) 
References: <zlDd6.177240$f36.6941177@news20.bellglobal.com> <cOFd6.13572$Pm2.265491@news20.bellglobal.com>
Message-ID: <XmGd6.10302$Qb7.1527073@newsb.telia.net>

Dan Parisien wrote:
> If I do not use a thread for the server loop, it does not give the error.
> The method is called fine, the data decrypted, then unpickled and life is
> good. There is a problem however... I have no ____ing clue why that
> happens. Does anyone in python devel know what triggers that error msg?

it's triggered if Py_InitModule is called (usually by an extension
module) before the interpreter itself has been initialized.

on Windows, this can happen if a new version of the interpreter
picks up an extension linked against an older version of the Python
DLL, and that DLL is still present.  The runtime linker will then load
the old DLL (without calling Py_Initialize), and the module ends up
calling the wrong version of Py_InitModule, in an uninitialized DLL.

Cheers /F




From db3l at fitlinxx.com  Mon Jan 29 13:51:16 2001
From: db3l at fitlinxx.com (David Bolen)
Date: 29 Jan 2001 13:51:16 -0500
Subject: . Python 2.1 function attributes
References: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0101271158190.3501-100000@y.glue.umd.edu> <Pine.GSO.4.21.0101270135190.7677-100000@y.glue.umd.edu> <mailman.980593892.725.python-list@python.org> <$5A+ZwAGjtc6EwE0@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <14962.62953.304511.523826@anthem.wooz.org> <mailman.980613639.23439.python-list@python.org> <mailman.980617472.28020.python-list@python.org> <Pine.GSO.4.21.0101271303540.3501-100000@y.glue.umd.edu>
Message-ID: <u66iymbtn.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com>

Roy Katz <katz at Glue.umd.edu> writes:

> On Sat, 27 Jan 2001, Moshe Zadka wrote:
(...)
> > sys.stdout = sys.stderr
> > try:
> > 	print foo, bar
> > finally:
> > 	sys.stdout = sys.__stdout__
> > 
> 
> what is wrong with redirection? must we wrap the output in a try:
> anymore than wrap a standard print in a try:?

Because without this try, if something goes wrong you won't restore
sys.stdout to what it started with, which might affect surrounding
code.  That's not an issue with a normal print in the middle of code,
but important when you're redirecting things.

--
-- David
-- 
/-----------------------------------------------------------------------\
 \               David Bolen            \   E-mail: db3l at fitlinxx.com  /
  |             FitLinxx, Inc.            \  Phone: (203) 708-5192    |
 /  860 Canal Street, Stamford, CT  06902   \  Fax: (203) 316-5150     \
\-----------------------------------------------------------------------/


From aahz at panix.com  Tue Jan  9 02:46:33 2001
From: aahz at panix.com (Aahz Maruch)
Date: 8 Jan 2001 23:46:33 -0800
Subject: why no "do : until"?
References: <932r3e010bd@news1.newsguy.com> <mailman.978997336.1886.python-list@python.org> <fvwvc5zd8w.fsf@Borokay.AI.SRI.COM> <6fz66.4202$AH6.740364@newsc.telia.net>
Message-ID: <93efkp$21c$1@panix6.panix.com>

In article <6fz66.4202$AH6.740364 at newsc.telia.net>,
Fredrik Lundh <fredrik at effbot.org> wrote:
>
>    i = 0
>    for x in a:
>        ...
>        i += 1
>
>(like Aahz, I prefer the second variant.  it's slightly faster on
>large sequences, and doesn't depend on len(a) returning the
>right thing)

It's also guaranteed to consume no extra memory beyond that needed to
store x and i (and the already-allocated a).
-- 
                      --- Aahz (Copyright 2001 by aahz at pobox.com)

Androgynous poly kinky vanilla queer het    <*>     http://www.rahul.net/aahz/
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6

Sometimes, you're not just out of left field, you're coming in all the
way from outer space.  --Aahz


From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Sun Jan  7 15:23:07 2001
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com (Jonathan Polley)
Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2001 14:23:07 -0600
Subject: new enum idiom
References: <G6qzLy.6Fo@world.std.com> <938jmh$919$1@animus.fel.iae.nl> <3A58B9C0.9F2A5CC0@collins.rockwell.com>
Message-ID: <3A58D02B.F077255B@collins.rockwell.com>

Forget about the ordinal/value conversion, I keep thinking in terms of strongly typed
languages (sigh).  I have also modified the enum function so that it no longer needs to
be passed a class, but instantiates one of its own and returns it to the caller.

>>> MIDI_Event = enum.enum ("NOTE_ON", "NOTE_OFF", 3, "POLYPHONIC_KEY_PRESSURE",
"CONTROLLER_CHANGE")
>>> MIDI_Event.NOTE_ON
0
>>> MIDI_Event.POLYPHONIC_KEY_PRESSURE
4


Jonathan Polley
jwpolley at collins.rockwell.com


# module begins

import types

# a private class that will be instantiated for each enumeration
class __Enum_Class:
    # an empty constructor
    def __init__(self):
        pass
    # print out the name of the base class, FWIW
    def __repr__(self):
        return `self.__class__`

def enum(*args, **keys):
    """Create and enumerate to your hearts delight,
    args is a sequence of enumeration names, possibly interleaved
       with values that override the default value by specifying
       the value for the directly preceding enum name.
    **keys is a hack to allow to override the default name (Enum_Repr)
       for the dict used to store the reverse mapping from enum
       value to enum string"""

    # The value of the last added enum
    Last_Enum = -1

    # the dictionary mapping enumerations to values
    Enum_Repr = {}

    # an instance of an enumerated type container
    New_Enum = __Enum_Class()

    # for each argument
    for Enum in args:
        # if I was passed a string enumeration
        if type(Enum) == types.StringType:
            # add one element to the enumeration
            Last_Enum += 1
            # add the value to the enumerated list
            New_Enum.__dict__[Enum] = Last_Enum
            Enum_Repr[Last_Enum] = Enum

        # if not a string, it had better be an integer!
        elif type (Enum) != types.IntType:
            raise ValueError, "Enumeration must be a string or integer"

        # check for a change in the enumeration sequence
        elif Enum > Last_Enum:
            # change the ordinal value of the last enumeration
            New_Enum.__dict__[Enum_Repr[Last_Enum]] = Enum
            # move the enumeration to its new position
            Enum_Repr[Enum] = Enum_Repr[Last_Enum]
            # delete the old position of the enumeration
            del Enum_Repr[Last_Enum]
            # remember the new value of the end of the enumeration
            Last_Enum = Enum

        # check if the enumeration change was backward!
        elif Enum < Last_Enum:
            raise ValueError, "Enumeration value out of bound"

        # end if I was passed a string enumeration
    # end for each argument

    # store the enumeration string in the class' dictionary
    New_Enum.__dict__[keys.get(Enum_Repr, "__Enum_Repr")] = Enum_Repr

    # return the new enumeration to the caller
    return New_Enum

# end def enum

I foolishly wrote:

> Is is possible to modify the 'enum' function so that I don't have to provide a
> class?  I would like to use something like this method to create enumerated types,
> but I don't want to keep generating classes that say:
>
> class Ufda:
>     def __repr__(self):
>         return self.Enum_Repr[self.type]
>
> I would like to just do a:
>
> MIDI_Event = enum("NOTE_ON", "NOTE_OFF", 3, "POLYPHONIC_KEY_PRESSURE",
> "CONTROLLER_CHANGE")
>
> and then do MIDI_Event.NOTE_ON.
>
> On a related note, how would I map between the enumeration and its ordinal value?
> Would I add the methods 'ord' and 'val' to the base class
> (MIDI_Event.ord(MIDI_Event.NOTE_OFF)) yields 3 and MIDI_Event.val(0) yields
> MIDI_Event.NOTE_ON)?
>
> Not being very use to OO and classes, I may need some adult supervision on this  ;)
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jonathan Polley
> jwpolley at collins.rockwell.com
>



From ryu-jin at bigfoot.com  Sun Jan 14 19:15:37 2001
From: ryu-jin at bigfoot.com (Ryujin)
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 00:15:37 GMT
Subject: Python and ODBC?
Message-ID: <93tfo0$12p$1@ryu.it>

Which is the best solution to work with python and a SQL database under Windows?
I mean which module do I have to install on Python 2.0?
What about under Linux? I'm trying to install mxODBC module with MySQL db on a Linuxppc 
box.
thx

matte

-- 
---------------------------------------
Memelli Matteo					
Could u imagine a world without Windoz?	 
ryu-jin at bigfoot.com			 
---------------------------------------



From mhammond at my-deja.com  Thu Jan 18 21:07:58 2001
From: mhammond at my-deja.com (Mark Hammond)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 02:07:58 GMT
Subject: win ce and python
References: <e026ZYXgAHA.268@cpmsnbbsa07>
Message-ID: <9487hp$c91$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

In article <e026ZYXgAHA.268 at cpmsnbbsa07>,
  "tony roth" <roth at teleport.com> wrote:
> is there anything going on with python and win ce devices it seems to
be
> kinda dead.  Any ideas or suggestions.

The only decent idea I can offer is that you jump in.

Nothing-gets-done-until-someone-does-it ly,

Mark.


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From bernard604 at my-deja.com  Fri Jan 12 14:08:06 2001
From: bernard604 at my-deja.com (bernard604 at my-deja.com)
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 19:08:06 GMT
Subject: mxtools install (for PySplines)
Message-ID: <93nkme$sgl$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

Hello


I am trying to install PySplines and it requires mxtools.
I have tried to install mxtools but have failed. I tried to compile it
using the instructions (make -f Makefile.pre.in boot).  Is there a rpm
of it anywhere. I have seen
something at http://www.2xtreme.net/chadn/python/RPMS/, but I was not
able to download it from there. I am using Mandrake 7.1 if that is of
any use.

If anyone has gotten PySplines installed, I would like to know how they
did it


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From jimd at vega.starshine.org  Sun Jan  7 08:22:34 2001
From: jimd at vega.starshine.org (Jim Dennis)
Date: 7 Jan 2001 13:22:34 GMT
Subject: Calling an application from inside a python script Take 1
References: <mailman.978680886.5942.python-list@python.org> <9351o8$8qm$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu> <tGs56.1056$4Z.77453@news2.atl> <935p59$cga$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <slrn95grcp.b97.jimd@vega.starshine.org>

In article <935p59$cga$1 at nntp6.u.washington.edu>, Donn Cave wrote:
>Quoth "Joel Ricker" <joejava at dragonat.net>:
>| Donn Cave wrote in message <9351o8$8qm$1 at nntp6.u.washington.edu>...

>|> try that and see what happens?  That's an intentionally hostile
>|> input (don't try it, really.)  Accidental input errors might be harmless,
>|> or might not.

>|> I didn't see anything wrong with the ssh in your initial post, the
>|> problem was system().  system() + user-supplied input = unpredictable
>|> results.  Use spawnv().

>| I'm not sure if you are familar with perl but perl has a pragma called Taint
>| that when enabled prohibits the use of user supplied input until the proper
>| input is regexed out of it - for example, usernames shouldn't have any
>| punctuation other than _ or control codes, etc.  I'm not sure exactly what
>| Python has in this regard as this is Day 1 of my Perl Recovery Program (*s*)
>| but its a mindset worth applying.

>I'd like to see people try spawnv().  (Or spawnvp(), whatever.)

>It's nice to be able to clean up input for the shell command line, and 
>maybe it's even reliable enough.  As a mindset, I'm not sure.  If you
>need to walk a high-wire, then a safety net is a good idea.  If you
>actually could just cross at the street level, but everyone takes the
>high-wire because they don't like to walk up and down the stairs and
>there's a safety net, that puts the safety net in a different perspective.
>You can still break your neck.

>Until now, we could only say "system() is scary, but the alternatives
>are complex and laborious."  Now 2.0 has a reasonably handy alternative.
>It's safer, it's faster, would appear to be portable.  Say no to
>system(), at least with calculated inputs.

>	Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu

 system() is scary because it spawns a shell, which parses
 the input as a command line *IN THE USERS ENVIRONMENT*.  Thus
 there are various environement settings like PATH, possibly 
 including aliases and shell functions that can also invisibly
 affect what is run.

 Note that Taint checking is not a panacea.  In only enforces
 a policy that you perform some substition/regex filtering operation
 on your strings before you pass them to your system or eval functions.
 It doesn't "know" what constitutes a safe set of filtering parameters
 for each shell or whatever.  Like a safety on a firearm it helps a good 
 programmer avoid shooting himself in the foot but it doesn't unload
 the gun for you!



From Jason.Tishler at dothill.com  Thu Jan 25 01:09:47 2001
From: Jason.Tishler at dothill.com (Jason Tishler)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 01:09:47 -0500
Subject: Python 2.1 alpha 1 released!
In-Reply-To: <200101230333.WAA28376@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>; from guido@digicool.com on Mon, Jan 22, 2001 at 10:33:02PM -0500
References: <200101230333.WAA28376@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com>
Message-ID: <20010125010947.M1256@dothill.com>

On Mon, Jan 22, 2001 at 10:33:02PM -0500, Guido van Rossum wrote:
> - Python should now build out of the box on Cygwin.  If it doesn't,
>   mail to Jason Tishler (jlt63 at users.sourceforge.net).

Although Python CVS built OOTB under Cygwin until 2001/01/17 18:54:54,
Python 2.1a1 needs a small patch in order to build cleanly under Cygwin.
If interested, please see the following for details:

    http://www.cygwin.com/ml/cygwin-apps/2001-01/msg00019.html

Thanks,
Jason

-- 
Jason Tishler
Director, Software Engineering       Phone: +1 (732) 264-8770 x235
Dot Hill Systems Corp.               Fax:   +1 (732) 264-8798
82 Bethany Road, Suite 7             Email: Jason.Tishler at dothill.com
Hazlet, NJ 07730 USA                 WWW:   http://www.dothill.com



From mread at cableinet.co.uk  Wed Jan 31 14:46:42 2001
From: mread at cableinet.co.uk (Mike Read)
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 19:46:42 GMT
Subject: The fundamentals...
References: <F8Jb6.30683$pp2.2619941@news3.cableinet.net> <20010124085846.A32572@glacier.fnational.com> <mailman.980382102.30218.python-list@python.org> <94p6uh024lf@news2.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <CYZd6.67799$pp2.5141003@news3.cableinet.net>

"Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote in message news:94p6uh024lf at news2.newsguy.com...
> "Neil Schemenauer" <nas at arctrix.com> wrote in message
> news:mailman.980382102.30218.python-list at python.org...
> > On Wed, Jan 24, 2001 at 08:58:46AM -0800, Neil Schemenauer wrote:
> > > So you can do:
> > >
> > >     boo = string.replace(". ", "\n")
> >
> > That should be:
> >
> >       boo = string.replace(boo, ". ", "\n")
>
> Or boo = boo.replace('. ', '\n')  [in Python 2, but surely
> we're all upgraded by now, aren't we?-)]

I am - but the book I'm learning from isn't.  Still, thanks for
all your comment.  With ref to the comment from Unix-land,
Windows is a necessity, not a desire I fear.

Regards,

Mike




From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Wed Jan  3 17:50:10 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2001 23:50:10 +0100
Subject: 2001 Enchancement Wishlist
References: <3A4CEACB.220998A0@javanet.com> <92iv76$flh$1@slb2.atl.mindspring.net> <3A4ECDA9.E2796F78@javanet.com>
Message-ID: <930af60qcn@news1.newsguy.com>

"Raymond Hettinger" <othello at javanet.com> wrote in message
news:3A4ECDA9.E2796F78 at javanet.com...
    [snip]
> I was hoping to avoid a factory method or global variable or using
> modules to create single instances.  Compared to enriching __init__,
> these approaches seem kludgy,

Why would a factory function be "kludgy"?  It's one of the most
classic and useful design-patterns, and I've as yet seen NO reason
at all, from either you or Pearu, showing this pattern as in any
way undesirable.

> break the encapsulation of the class,

How so?  In what sense, exactly, does a client-code call of:

    x = theModule.makeFoo(1,2)

show any 'encapsulation breaking' when compared to

    x = theModule.Foo(1,2)

...?

> and are hard to implement after clients are already making calls to
> the constructor.

Really?  How does client-code use the classname _except_ as a
constructor?  So, if you're so keen to avoid having it call makeFoo,
just change your theModule.py as follows:

-- start of theModule.py
class Foo:
    def __init__(self):
        # whatever
    # further mysteries

# we currently singletonize it

_singleFoo = Foo()

def makeFoo():
    return _singleFoo

# and now, the magic trick...:

Foo = makeFoo
-- end of theModule.py

Now, the client code doing

    myFoo = theModule.Foo()

will in fact be calling function theModule.makeFoo, which can
return whatever you desire.  It doesn't make the singleton design
pattern any better, mind you -- but neither does it make any
worse; if you ARE keen to have a callable, named "just like" a
class, which isn't the class itself, it's pretty elementary.


> The decision to make a object a Singleton or to
> revoke that decision should be invisible to clients of the class.

I strongly disagree that such "invisibility" is at all a desirable
design target -- and, in any case, "having __init__ return
something" would surely not accomplish it (or would you also
abolish 'is', 'id', etc...?).


> Only one of the posts so far reacted positively to the idea, but none
> indicated that it would be hard to implement.  It would seem to add
> flexibility without breaking anything currently written.

Adding one more way to accomplish what can perfectly well
be accomplished now by other means (and is in many cases
a dubious idea anyway -- e.g., alleged "invisibility" of singleton
or non-singleton state for a class) is definitely unPythonic.


> Here is a revised wish (borrowed from AWK):
>
> Override the IN keyword for dictionaries and access the keys directly:
>
> knights = { 'lancalot':'good', 'gallahad':'brave', 'robin':'coward' }
> for k in knights:
>         print k, knights[k]
> if 'arthur' in knights:
>         print 'Not a king'

The more I do Python, the more I like "explicit is better than implicit".

Your request seems to boil down to having x implicitly mean x.keys(),
when x is a dictionary, in certain contexts; taking 'black magic' (even
in small doses:-) as a _negative_, rather than as good in itself, what
IS the supposed benefit that offsets the cost of implicitness here?

Having two perfectly good and equivalent ways to accomplish the same
task is another unPythonic aspect of this, as above indicated.  Python's
ideal is that there be ONE way to perform a task -- as an ideal, it cannot
be fully reached, only approached; but, where is the plus in such a
deliberate departure from the usual design-guideline of the language?


Alex





From ssthapa at harper.uchicago.edu  Tue Jan 16 17:52:04 2001
From: ssthapa at harper.uchicago.edu (ssthapa at harper.uchicago.edu)
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 22:52:04 GMT
Subject: Relational Databases and Python
References: <mailman.979589896.32678.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrn96950d.2hn.ssthapa@ntcs-ip45.uchicago.edu>

glinds - Greg Lindstrom <glinds at acxiom.com> wrote:
>*	What relational database to use?  I am constructing a routine to
>track incident reports for the volunteer fire department I run with.  I also
>want to track personnel information, training records, equipment, etc.  It
>will be a small to medium database (the databases I work with professionally
>run in the terabytes, but we spend millions on software).  I am looking at
>MySQL.  Whatever base I use must be free.

    I suggest using postgresql instead.  I think mysql has limitations such
as not allowing subselects, foreign keys, and similar things that might bite
you latter on. Also I think that until recently mysql didn't have all the ACID
properties (it recently added transactions so it may have it now).  

>*	With an eye to the future, I would like to write a Web-based system
>so that I can offer this system to other volunteer departments in the
>county.  We simply cannot afford $2500+ for reporting software (that will
>fully outfit 2 firefighters including SCBA (breathing equipment) and PASS (a
>safety device)).  Though I have talked with a couple of companies offering a
>"volunteer rate", we simply cannot afford to spend that kind of money on
>software.  How do I get started writing web apps?  I have good friends at
>work telling me that Perl is the way to go; I program both, but am partial
>to Python.

    I think you should be able to use mod_python and mxodbc or pygresql 
modules to write web stuff using python.  I believe zope and pmz also allow 
you use python to do web development.


-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------
			    |
Suchandra Thapa             | "There are only two kinds of math books. 
s-thapaNO at SPAMuchicago.edu  | Those you cannot read beyond the first 
			    | sentence, and those you cannot read 
			    | beyond the first page."
			    |                       -C.N. Yang
------------------------------------------------------------------


From tim.one at home.com  Thu Jan  4 23:28:21 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 23:28:21 -0500
Subject: Py_AddPendingCall can't signal background threads!!!
In-Reply-To: <TC456.137$Oe.1300@tor-nn1.netcom.ca>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCKENEIGAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Warren Postma]
> ...
> I suppose I could actually have a Keyboard-Interrupt-Signal hack
> happen in Py_MakePendingCalls() to handle if a background thread
> was being told to "die", but thus far i have avoided making
> changes to my own embedded python 1.5.2 that would make it somehow
> incompatible with a stock Python system.
>
> However it appears that truly signalling a thread is not allowed
> in Python.

See the "feature request" PEP:

    http://python.sourceforge.net/peps/pep-0042.html

esp. the block starting:

    Killing a thread from another thread.  Or maybe sending
    signal.  Or maybe raising an asynchronous exception.

Because Python gets ported to every strange platform on earth, it relies on
a *very* small set of simple thread primitives.  Any native means of
signaling one thread from another is extremely platform-dependent (and often
not possible at all), so Python has avoided adding such a thing in the
absence of 147 platform experts volunteering to figure out how to accomplish
that on 147 different platforms.  Yes, I overstate the case <wink> -- but
the thrust is on-target.  For now, Python arranges that signals always get
delivered to "the main thread", just so that it's predictable.

If somebody volunteers to write a PEP and the code, I think Guido would
accept a patch to build a simple inter-thread exception mechanism on top of
the Py_MakePendingCalls hack.  We'd probably like to get a patch to add a
portable thread-local storage mechanism more than that, though, to simplify
implementing *all* the ways people would like to make Python's x-platform
thread facilities stronger.

it's-not-there-now-just-because-it-isn't-ly y'rs  - tim




From timr at probo.com  Wed Jan 31 01:51:26 2001
From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 22:51:26 -0800
Subject: Extending struct.unpack
References: <t7evmnoqmpii83@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <rbdf7tstpdkoldvcpc6lor3e723u7k2rgo@4ax.com>

"Amritansh Raghav" <amritansh at mobilian.com> wrote:
>
>p.s (for more info - the buffer i want to unpack contains an ethernet
>address which is 6 bytes. currently i unpack it using 6B, but i would like
>to specify it as say E and have unpack return a 6byte long number)

What kind of Ethernet address is 6 bytes?  You mean a MAC address?  Those
aren't usually manipulated as a single 6-byte entity.
--
- Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
  Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.


From grey at despair.rpglink.com  Tue Jan 30 15:51:04 2001
From: grey at despair.rpglink.com (Steve Lamb)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 20:51:04 -0000
Subject: curly-brace-aphobic?
References: <3A74EBD6.3C87FD15@seebelow.org> <slrn97a9fu.7sf.clgonsal@keeshah.penguinpowered.com> <3A757FBE.E54C5ECD@seebelow.org> <slrn97b6kb.k6.grey@teleute.dmiyu.org> <9573d501gcj@drn.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <slrn97ea9n.bpi.grey@teleute.dmiyu.org>

On 30 Jan 2001 11:07:17 -0800, Grant Griffin <not.this at seebelow.org> wrote:
>In article <slrn97b6kb.k6.grey at teleute.dmiyu.org>, grey at despair.rpglink.com
>(btw,-do-you-live-in-the-south-pacific?-<wink>)-ly y'rs,

    Nope, no shruken heads here.  :)

-- 
         Steve C. Lamb         | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your
         ICQ: 5107343          | main connection to the switchboard of souls.
-------------------------------+---------------------------------------------


From purp at wildbrain.com  Wed Jan 31 10:01:01 2001
From: purp at wildbrain.com (Jim Meyer)
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 07:01:01 -0800
Subject: Dynamically Defined Functions in Classes?
Message-ID: <3A7828AD.279C88AC@wildbrain.com>

Hello!

I'm trying to stretch my knowledge of Python and I've run into a brick
wall. I've bought and read several TFMs with no success, but I'm
probably looking in the wrong place.

I have an application in which I wish to treat the members of a
dictionary as attributes; that is, I want to use set-and-get functions
to access them. The {weird|clever|tricky|stupid} thing I want to do is
to dynamically define the access functions at the time that an instance
of the class is initialized. Here's a brief example

defaultFoo = {'joe' : 'cool', 'frank' : 'lee', 'ron' : 'dell'}

class Bar :
  def __init__(self) :
    self.Foo = defaultFoo
    for key in self.Foo :
      # Define function member key(self,value) which is equivalent
      # to calling self.setOrGet(key,value), e.g def joe(value) : ...

  def setOrGet(self, attrName, value = None) :
    if value == None :
      return self.Foo[attrName]
    else :
      self.Foo[attrName] = value
      return self.Foo[attrName]

Any elegant way to go about this? Or smarter ways to deal with
attributes?

Thanks!

--j
-- 
Jim Meyer, Geek At Large                              purp at wildbrain.com




From ncmoon at cix.co.uk  Wed Jan 10 12:39:00 2001
From: ncmoon at cix.co.uk (Nick Moon)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 17:39 +0000 (GMT Standard Time)
Subject: Can't import crypt module under Python2.0
Message-ID: <memo.20010110173928.13859A@greencheese.cix.co.uk>

Now this maybe something stupid that I have done but I would 
like someone to check it.

I can't import the crypt module under Python2.0. It works with 
Python 1.5.1 on the same Linux box.

Is this a bug? Could someone try it on a linux box and confirm 
it works for them. (Don't bother on a windows box - crypt is a 
unix thing). 



Cheers,


Nick.
-------------------------------------------
Nick Moon (Software Services)
=============================

e-mail: ncmoon at justclaim.co.uk
   web: www.justclaim.co.uk
-------------------------------------------


From tim.one at home.com  Fri Jan 19 20:40:41 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 20:40:41 -0500
Subject: Tabbing/Spaces
In-Reply-To: <B68E060D.901B%bobhicks@adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCIENOIJAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Robert L Hicks]
> ...
> While reading the reference manual it denotes that 8 spaces is
> that standard for indentation.

Where?  The Python compiler deals with a tab character by moving to the next
multiple-of-8 column, but that's just a (hardcoded) fact.

> However almost all the code (if not all) seems to use 4.
> What is the standard spacing on indentation?

The std for Python code in the distribution (more widely adhered to in the
upcoming 2.1 release) is:

    one indent level is 4 columns
    no hard tab characters (pure spaces)

Indeed, the program Tools/scripts/reindent.py exists to convert code to that
std, and will produce nothing else.  That's also the default behavior of the
Emacs python-mode, and of IDLE.

A non-blessed alternative is to use:

    one indent level is one hard tab character (pure tabs)

and than there's no way to guess how many columns the author believes an
indent level is.

*Mixing* tabs and spaces is insane in Python source.

or-in-any-other-text-file-that's-viewed-by-more-than-one-person-ly y'rs
    - tim




From rupole at msn.com  Thu Jan  4 17:53:19 2001
From: rupole at msn.com (Roger Upole)
Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 22:53:19 GMT
Subject: win32com, COM, MediaPlayer
References: <3A546D1F.12D9FB46@ira.uka.de>
Message-ID: <z9756.9984$lo3.571624@pouncer.easynews.com>

Try using the Windows Media Player Core instead.  This works on my system
with wmp 7.
w=win32com.client.Dispatch('{09428D37-E0B9-11D2-B147-00C04F79FAA6}')
w.launchURL('c:\\windows\\a3dspls.wav')
   hth
   Roger Upole

"Markus von Ehr" <vonehr at ira.uka.de> wrote in message
news:3A546D1F.12D9FB46 at ira.uka.de...
> The Play command still gives me the error:
>
> File "c:\Programme\Python\win32com\client\dynamic.py", line 207, in
>  _ApplyTypes_
>  result = apply(self._oleobj_.invokeTypes, (dispid, LCID, wFlags,
> retType, argTypes) + args)
> pywintypes.com_error: (-21468283, 'CTL_E_ILLEGALFUNCTIONCALL', (0, None,
> None, None, 0, -2146828283), None)
>
> Anybody knows why?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Markus
>
>
> *****************************************************************
>
> My Code looks like this:
>
> # Test dynamic policy
>
> import time
> import win32com
> import pythoncom
> import win32com.client
>
> w=win32com.client.Dispatch("MediaPlayer.MediaPlayer.1")
>
>
> w.AutoStart=1
> w.Open("c:\Programme\Python\ex1.wav")
>
> w.Play()
>
> while 1:
>     time.sleep(1)





From skip at mojam.com  Sat Jan 13 12:07:57 2001
From: skip at mojam.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 11:07:57 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Looking for Python/Internet opportunities telecommuting or in Chicago area
Message-ID: <14944.35693.766504.778441@beluga.mojam.com>

Please forgive the job-related post.  Like many other dot coms, Mojam.com
has been hammered by the tech sector problems of the past six months.  We
haven't closed our doors yet, but that may not be far off.  I'm looking
around for new opportunities that can utilize my Python and/or Internet
experience, either in the Chicago area or in a telecommuting setup.  Plain
text and HTML versions of my resume are available at

    http://www.geocities.com/smontanaro

If you have any questions, feel free to call or drop me a note.

back-to-your-regularly-scheduled-programming-ly y'rs,

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at pobox.com)
(847)971-7098



From dfarrell01 at earthlink.net  Tue Jan 23 00:57:13 2001
From: dfarrell01 at earthlink.net (Doug Farrell)
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 05:57:13 GMT
Subject: wyPython
References: <Mk9a6.3589$3T2.181641@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <atOa6.207520$59.54897245@news3.rdc1.on.home.com>
Message-ID: <Z29b6.2181$wh1.205296@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>

Thanks for everyone's input. I was quite interested to see the demo that
comes with wxPython run on Windows and Linux un-changed. Very cool stuff! I
will check out pyQt as well as I didn't know about that

Again, thanks for the feedback.
Doug

"Tom" <NoSpam at NoSpam.com> wrote in message
news:atOa6.207520$59.54897245 at news3.rdc1.on.home.com...
> My experience has been good on Win2K.
> Check out the wxPython Demo - it is very useful.
> Because it is a 'native' toolkit it is very fast.
>
> Tom.
>
> "Doug Farrell" <dfarrell01 at earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:Mk9a6.3589$3T2.181641 at newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
> > Hi,
> >
> > I'd like to hear what people think of wyPython and any experience
they've
> > had with it, in particular as to how it compares to useing other GUI
> tookits
> > like Tcl/Tk for instance.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Doug
> >
> >
>
>
>




From claird at starbase.neosoft.com  Fri Jan  5 09:43:43 2001
From: claird at starbase.neosoft.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: 5 Jan 2001 08:43:43 -0600
Subject: SafePython (was: Migrating to perl?)
References: <3Fa56.4580$of7.216286@news1.atl> <mailman.978670867.31055.python-list@python.org> <V%c56.4648$of7.221797@news1.atl> <CF8EF219512784B3.B44503B368F90331.E2977F7019782278@lp.airnews.net>
Message-ID: <FB52FEF12A8D9FFF.EB2E0888268F29EB.F9E8285459855287@lp.airnews.net>

In article <CF8EF219512784B3.B44503B368F90331.E2977F7019782278 at lp.airnews.net>,
I mumbled:
>In article <V%c56.4648$of7.221797 at news1.atl>,
>Joel Ricker <joejava at dragonat.net> wrote:
>			.
>			.
>			.
>Yes, there has been talk of a SafePython in
>the past.  To my embarrassment, I've utterly
>forgotten what came of it.  There certainly
			.
			.
			.
Well, apart from rexec, I mean.  I think
<URL: http://deja.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=666669760 >
accurately reflects current wisdom on rexec,
but I've personally done nothing with it in
ages.
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at NeoSoft.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://starbase.neosoft.com/~claird/home.html


From trotts at mit.edu  Mon Jan 29 04:09:19 2001
From: trotts at mit.edu (Issac Trotts)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 01:09:19 -0800
Subject: ANN: clifford.py 0.6
In-Reply-To: <9537k1$94e@gap.cco.caltech.edu>; from kern@myrddin.caltech.edu on Mon, Jan 29, 2001 at 07:54:41AM +0000
References: <952pv7$4do@gap.cco.caltech.edu> <mailman.980745634.17798.python-list@python.org> <9537k1$94e@gap.cco.caltech.edu>
Message-ID: <20010129010919.B23067@llnl.gov>

> > Cool, so do you know if anyone is working on a symbolic 
> > package for Clifford/Geometric Algebra (other than me)?
> 
> In anything related to Python, no. There is a package for Maple
> available from the Cambridge GA page. . And I've seen an ad from 
> the (now-defunct?) MACSYMA people about a commercial MACSYMA package.
> 
> So what's your approach? What framework are you working in? PySymbolic?
> I've had a hankering to try to replicate the MACSYMA work in Maxima,
> but I haven't the time or expertise to do so.

I hadn't heard about PySymbolic until now.  Maybe I can work it
in somehow.

My approach is to represent expressions as expression trees.
All computations are based on properties of the operations and
operands, rather than having an explicit notion of an orthonormal 
basis enshrined in the system.  To compute with an ONB, you would make the
expression tree for, say x /\ y and then substitute

x --> x1 e1 + x2 e2 + x3 e3
y --> y1 e1 + y2 e2 + y3 e3

and 

e1 . e2 --> 0
e2 . e3 --> 0
e3 . e1 --> 0

This way, you don't have to look at messy expressions involving
coordinates unless you want to.  

The inner product will be implemented based on the definition
given by M. Riesz, as described in Leo Dorst's paper 
"Honing geometric algebra for its use in the computer sciences."
This definition of the inner product leads to more powerful and 
uniform theorems, which will make the implementation much cleaner.

One other noteworthy thing is that expressions will be able
to return a set of the possible blade grade sets they might
have, e.g. 

{{0,2}, {0}, {1,3,10}}

I'm working on representing the sets as set expression trees.
This way, you can say things like

"x is either a spinor or a vector"

which in set language means that the blade grade set of x is
an element of {{0,2}, {1}}.  Or you can say that 

"x is an arbitrary multivector"

which might be represented by saying that its blade grade set
is a member of Complement(EmptySet()), i.e., the universe of 
discourse.

I'm not aware of any other system that does this, even though
it seems like a very natural thing to do.  If I remember correctly,
the Cambridge people are using explicit computation with basis
elements, which seems contrary to the philosophy
of Geometric Algebra, even though it is much easier to implement.
It makes sense for a numerical system do everything in
terms of basis elements, but not a symbolic system.

If you're interested in collaborating, let me know.  Maybe we 
can make this a SourceForge project.

Issac

> Robert Kern
> kern at caltech.edu
> 
> "In the fields of hell where the grass grows high
>  Are the graves of dreams allowed to die."
>   -- Richard Harter
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list



From tdelaney at avaya.com  Sun Jan 14 19:59:02 2001
From: tdelaney at avaya.com (Delaney, Timothy)
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 11:59:02 +1100
Subject: is Python fully object oriented ?
Message-ID: <B43D149A9AB2D411971300B0D03D7E8B0FBDB6@natasha.auslabs.avaya.com>

> Note that in the case of attributes that are mutable, you can use
> local variables if you like:
> 
> def method(self):
>     foo = self.foo
>     foo.do_this()
>     foo.do_that()
>     return foo.get_bar() + foo.get_baz()
> 
> and since you prevent extra lookups, may in some cases even speed up 
> your code.
> 
> In the case your attributes are immutable objects, you need 
> to make sure
> they're changed in the end if you use this technique:
> 
> def method(self):
>     foo = self.foo
>     foo = foo + 12
>     ... lots more ..
>     self.foo = foo

Ooh - dangerous in a multithreaded app ... ;)



From volker.jahns at web.de  Mon Jan 29 09:57:03 2001
From: volker.jahns at web.de (Volker Jahns)
Date: 29 Jan 2001 16:57:03 +0200
Subject: Books
References: <3a757ac1$1@netnews.web.de> <hhfd6.6061$Uo2.20161@newsfeed.slurp.net> <3a757f33$1@netnews.web.de> <mailman.980781035.27107.python-list@python.org> <3a758a80@netnews.web.de> <yggd6.10081$AH6.1619656@newsc.telia.net>
Message-ID: <3a758fa3$1@netnews.web.de>

Hi 
>> It makes we wonder, that the python.org uses php for
>> dynamic web pages.
>
>what's wrong with you?


everything. I am an idiot .-)... 


my first and only contact with python is our mail server. the configuration 
(systemcalls, pages (HTML)) based on python. so it is quit normal for me to ask 
for the benefits for that tasks. but, in the end of the day, I am an normal idiot 
*g*


Volker
-- 
_____________________________________________________________
NewsGroups Suchen, lesen, schreiben mit http://netnews.web.de


From a at a.a  Tue Jan 23 12:51:33 2001
From: a at a.a (Aaron)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 06:51:33 +1300
Subject: Python as a web server?
References: <980242697.576973@shelley.paradise.net.nz> <94jngf018sb@news1.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <980271779.640862@shelley.paradise.net.nz>

WOAH!

Thanks a heap for that rather indepth analysis Alex! Python it is for me
then. I'll start looking at those technologies now and as you say start
simple and go from there.

Cheers
Aaron


"Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:94jngf018sb at news1.newsguy.com...
> "Aaron" <a at a.a> wrote in message
> news:980242697.576973 at shelley.paradise.net.nz...
> > Hi all, I was wanting to dable in writing a very simple online turn
based
> > game, and was wondering if python could manage the server and client
side
> of
> > things? I'd need database access on the server, and would need to be
able
> to
> > get the client to print text of course, and draw some simple graphics
like
> > lines, circles, fills, points and the odd image.
>
> Yes, Python might be quite suitable.  It comes with Python-implemented
> simple servers (one for just-HTTP, and one for CGI-or-close-to-it), and
> it can also easily cooperate with more powerful general purpose servers
> in several ways (CGI, Fast-CGI, LRWP [for Xitami], Apache-specific ways,
> IIS-specific ways, and more) -- you need not use HTTP, but that has
> several advantages if you can, and the 'turn-based game' approach seems
> quite suitable for the request-response model underlying HTTP.
>
> Python offers several ways to provide 'database access' -- depending on
> your needs, a simple dbm-like (non-relational) DB might suffice (the
> Berkeley one is good, for example), you could use Python-coded Gadfly
> (for SQL-based relational DB operation), or interface to whatever
> 'real' relational DBMS you prefer.
>
> You could use a 'thick client' to provide the graphics you require, or
> generate it server-side (as, say, PNG's, ideally -- GIF's are also a
> possibility, but you may not want to get embroiled in the licensing
> requirements for them) -- or use some compromise, such as SVG (the
> 'Scalable Vector Graphics' standard for the web, see for example:
> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/Overview.htm8
> and require that the client be a browser WITH a plug-in or something
> to render the SVG parts of the page).  Thin-client solutions (where
> the client is just a browser, or, at worst, a browser plus some kind
> of plug-in) tend to have deployment advantages if you can live within
> their limitations.  But if you go the thick-client route, Python IS
> ok for that too -- and, with PIL (the Python Imaging Library) it's
> also excellent for generating images on the fly on the server side.
>
> You might also choose to do a client that runs as an applet inside
> a browser's JVM (although I would not advise this) -- if you do
> choose this, then Jython is a better choice than naked-Java for
> your coding (Jython is the Python version that can generate JVM
> bytecode that can run together with Java-generated code, etc).
>
> In other words: while there are several architectural possibilities,
> Python is just about the best choice for ANY combination of choices
> you can make regarding your architecture.
>
>
> > Could someone tell me if this is possible or should I use something else
> > (Like php). If python is the way to go do you have any links on python
> > server writing?
>
> PHP would severely limit your choices, I think (no client-side, and
> I don't know how it could interface a Berkely DBM, or easily build
> server-side images on the fly, etc, etc).  Python seems the ideal
> choice.
>
> You'll get an excellent overview of Python technologies for the web at:
> http://starbase.neosoft.com/~claird/comp.lang.python/web_python.html.
>
> But it IS about the technologies -- not really about how you design
> your server application, how you choose between server-side, client-
> side, and compromises such as SVG, and so on.  Those are issues which
> do interact with technology-choices, but are really pretty distinct
> from them, except in as much as a given technology may constrain the
> available architecture-choice and design space.
>
> My personal advice is: start as simple as you possibly can (and STAY
> simple as long as you possibly can).  Do a prototype that is strictly
> CGI (simplest; you can run it under any HTTP server of your choice!),
> build the images on the server side (with PIL), use dbm if you possibly
> can (easier than SQL and a relational DB, if your needs are few) --
> get such a prototype to a very-bare-functional-minimum stage, and see
> if you can't just deploy THAT.  You'll need to add something, and
> quite possibly refactor (perhaps heavily) around identified bottlenecks,
> but HAVING a prototype will make your further design job MUCH easier --
> you can get feedback from non-technically-savvy users, who would not be
> able to contribute if you DIDN'T have a running prototype to show them!
>
> Technological sophistication (most of the above-mentioned technology
> possibilities) can come in at the 'refactor to eliminate bottlenecks'
> stage, *IF* needed.  Starting with an overly-general, complicated,
> very sophisticated architecture, catering to superbly generalized
> potential that's never really going to be needed, is a prime cause
> of ambitious software projects' failures...!-)
>
>
> Alex
>
>
>




From sholden at holdenweb.com  Wed Jan 24 17:47:09 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 17:47:09 -0500
Subject: os.path.normpath()
References: <3A6F4777.60A82F5B@wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <H%Ib6.5231$oz1.72342@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>

"Gawain Bolton" <gbolton at wanadoo.fr> wrote in message
news:3A6F4777.60A82F5B at wanadoo.fr...
> I'm using Python v1.5.2 on Sun and Linux and have noticed what, to me,
> is strange behaviour with the os.path.normpath() function.
>
> Namely, I noticed the following:
>
> 1. os.path.normpath('///A///B///C///D') gives '///A/B/C/D'
>
I don't know why this would be ... although it *is* a valid, path, of
course. I presume you'd like just one leading slash on absolute paths.

> and
>
> 2. os.path.normpath('/../A/../A/B') gives '/../A/B'
>
> I'm sure I'm not the first one to notice this, and so I'm assuming this
> is "correct".  Could anyone please explain:
>
> A) Why leading slashes are not collapsed into a single slash.
> B) Why a leading /../ is not collapsed.
>
Don't see any problem here. What would you like, an absolute path? As a
relative path this works fine for me. If you DO want an absolute path then
try os.path.abspath(). This will go form the root, and should correctly
remove ".." components:

>>> os.path.abspath('.')
'D:\\Python20\\Tools\\idle'
>>> os.path.normpath("../Pythonwin/../Pythonwin/Pythonwin.exe")
'..\\Pythonwin\\Pythonwin.exe'
>>>
os.path.abspath(os.path.normpath("../Pythonwin/../Pythonwin/Pythonwin.exe"))
'D:\\Python20\\Tools\\Pythonwin\\Pythonwin.exe'


> I'm warning you though, I will not buy any platform dependent answers
> since the normpath() funciton is implemented in posixpath.py module
> which is tailored for POSIX systems (i.e. Unices).
>
But, as you can see (if you can excuse the backslashes) it works fine in
Windoze too!

Unix users may wish to confirm that this is good on that platform too.

regards
 Steve




From delza at antarcti.ca  Tue Jan  9 17:02:48 2001
From: delza at antarcti.ca (Dethe Elza)
Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2001 22:02:48 GMT
Subject: OpenGL/GLUT in python
References: <YXe46.16112$n%.820781@news20.bellglobal.com> <t571p7bjr72469@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <cUL66.974838$8u4.20146757@news1.rdc1.bc.home.com>

> > Is there any sites that are specifically focused on this topic? I am
> looking
> > mainly for tutorial sites.

Several of the OpenGL tutorials by NeHe have python versions of the source
(not especially "pythonic", intended to be as similar to the example C code
as possible for pedagogical reasons):

http://libsdl.org/opengl/intro.html

--Dethe




From andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au  Sun Jan 14 15:32:06 2001
From: andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au (Andrew MacIntyre)
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 07:32:06 +1100 (EDT)
Subject: storing passwords
In-Reply-To: <93rdmr$ihu$1@flotsam.uits.indiana.edu>
Message-ID: <Pine.OS2.4.30.0101150725530.438-100000@CENTRAL>

On Sun, 14 Jan 2001, Brian Waskiewicz wrote:

> I have a Python script that makes a Telnet connectio to a remote server and
> right now I have the password just stored within my code.  I'd don't like
> the idea of leaving the password available like that (the script runs
> automatically every night, so I can't prompt the user for it), so is there
> any other way to store the password in some kind of encrypted fashion??

I wrote a simple module that stores the account,password pair as an XOR
"masked" string in a dbm file with the hostname as the key.  The module is
only published (put in the PYTHONPATH) as a .pyc/.pyo, so the full source
is not generally readable.

This is only obscurity however, not real security.

--
Andrew I MacIntyre                     "These thoughts are mine alone..."
E-mail: andrew.macintyre at aba.gov.au    (work) | Snail: PO Box 370
        andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au  (play) |        Belconnen  ACT  2616
        andymac at pcug.org.au           (play2) |        Australia




From fredrik at effbot.org  Fri Jan  5 05:27:16 2001
From: fredrik at effbot.org (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 10:27:16 GMT
Subject: 2001 Enchancement Wishlist
References: <3A4CEACB.220998A0@javanet.com> <Ro736.2511$Qb7.273102@newsb.telia.net> <92j83r13gh@news1.newsguy.com> <20001231175940.A5435@xs4all.nl> <008301c07501$c036ae40$43931497@martelli> <20010104165116.F2467@xs4all.nl> <008601c07675$0adf2020$102b2bc1@cadlab.it> <20010104203232.P402@xs4all.nl> <006801c0769b$ac0cc3a0$9d8a1a97@martelli> <mailman.978689171.12291.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <8kh56.3817$Qb7.493797@newsb.telia.net>

Thomas Wouters wrote:
> What /F proposed, or at least how I interpreted his proposal, was to
> use module namespaces as namespaces to hold singletons

Exactly.

(better make it short, before someone plonks me for using
words that have more than one meaning ;-)

Cheers /F




From db3l at fitlinxx.com  Thu Jan 25 20:50:05 2001
From: db3l at fitlinxx.com (David Bolen)
Date: 25 Jan 2001 20:50:05 -0500
Subject: ANN: timeoutsocket.py --> v1.12 works with Python 2.0
References: <980352751.234548674@news.flashcom.net> <mailman.980354010.1825.python-list@python.org> <3A6F9224.FBCE2EF1@home.com> <uae8fqo11.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com> <3A70CFD2.5EC49B1F@home.com>
Message-ID: <u66j384ky.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com>

Rick Lee <rwklee at home.com> writes:

> Thanks!  Sounds like select() is the way to go.  But, why not 1000 separate
> threads, just for argument's sake?

>From a purely functional design, no reason - if the system could
support that then it should function properly.  But from a resource
management perspective, threads are less efficient than other means.

Threads are lighter weight than processes, but they still require
resource from the system (since each must exist in some way within the
task scheduler of the OS) - uThreads in the stackless Python are
different and even lighter weight.  In the same way that you probably
wouldn't try to run your average system with hundreds of processes
(well at least large hundreds :-)), thousands of threads can begin to
strain things depending on your environment.

More importantly, in this type of common scenario (servicing I/O from
many connections), many systems have been tuned to permit efficient
wait mechanisms to discover which connection needs servicing, while
tying up a minimum of resource.  So largely it's just a more efficient
design, which becomes important when you're talking about such large
numbers.

It's not that one approach is always better than the other, as much as
they are both mechanisms in your "toolkit" - and can often be traded
off against each other during design or implementation.

In fact often the two mechanisms are interwoven.  The I/O handling
of any concurrent connection is handled by a main thread that is
waiting for requests from any client to be dispatched.  Once it gets
such a request completely from a single client, it then creates a
"worker" thread to process that request - letting it get back to
waiting for other requests.  In large systems, those worker threads
may be limited in number to help control overall load on the system,
and perhaps shared from a pool to avoid the creation/destruction
overhead of the thread.  Now, this can be more complicated code, but
can yield the best tradeoff in responsiveness and overhead.

--
-- David
-- 
/-----------------------------------------------------------------------\
 \               David Bolen            \   E-mail: db3l at fitlinxx.com  /
  |             FitLinxx, Inc.            \  Phone: (203) 708-5192    |
 /  860 Canal Street, Stamford, CT  06902   \  Fax: (203) 316-5150     \
\-----------------------------------------------------------------------/


From pearu at cens.ioc.ee  Thu Jan  4 05:47:41 2001
From: pearu at cens.ioc.ee (Pearu Peterson)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 12:47:41 +0200
Subject: 2001 Enchancement Wishlist
In-Reply-To: <930af60qcn@news1.newsguy.com>
References: <3A4CEACB.220998A0@javanet.com> <92iv76$flh$1@slb2.atl.mindspring.net> <3A4ECDA9.E2796F78@javanet.com> <930af60qcn@news1.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10101041213380.21478-100000@kev.ioc.ee>


On Wed, 3 Jan 2001, Alex Martelli wrote:

> "Raymond Hettinger" <othello at javanet.com> wrote in message
> news:3A4ECDA9.E2796F78 at javanet.com...
>     [snip]
> > I was hoping to avoid a factory method or global variable or using
> > modules to create single instances.  Compared to enriching __init__,
> > these approaches seem kludgy,
> 
> Why would a factory function be "kludgy"?  It's one of the most
> classic and useful design-patterns, and I've as yet seen NO reason
> at all, from either you or Pearu, showing this pattern as in any
> way undesirable.

For the record, I use now

  class Real:
      def __init__(self,num):
          self.num = num
      <other number class methods>

  class Complex:
      def __init__(self,real,imag):
          self.real,self.imag = real,imag
      <other number class methods> 

  _Complex = Complex

  def Complex(real,imag):
      if imag == 0:
          return Real(real)
      return _Complex(real,imag)

for modeling

  class Complex:
      def __init__(self,real,imag):
          if imag == 0:
              return Real(real)
          self.real,self.imag = real,imag
      <other number class methods> 

And the idea works fine for my application. Though, any comments are
appreciated.

PS: Here Complex and Real classes are for illustration only.

Thanks,
	Pearu



From danielk at aracnet.com  Tue Jan  2 09:50:23 2001
From: danielk at aracnet.com (Daniel Klein)
Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2001 06:50:23 -0800
Subject: A single, general looping construct? (was: why no "do : until"?)
References: <92jj3j$ff7$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <92m9pm$d19$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <B3z36.122$9s1.18804@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com> <3A4EC5B1.8912E571@engcorp.com> <x8G36.156$9s1.31209@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com> <92qc21$538$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <9e546.215669$U46.6580243@news1.sttls1.wa.home.com>
Message-ID: <ubq35t4ruupbeuti69qt6pncso70flp40a@4ax.com>

On Mon, 01 Jan 2001 19:52:37 GMT, "Greg Jorgensen" <gregj at pobox.com>
wrote:

>Prime's INFO*BASIC (a version of Pick BASIC) had that loop construct. It was
>one of the best things about that language.

It's not just Prime but all flavors of Pick BASIC have very flexible
LOOP/WHILE/REPEAT and LOOP/UNTIL/REPEAT control statements.

Daniel Klein
Portland, OR USA



From glenfant at equod.com.nospam  Fri Jan 12 06:12:55 2001
From: glenfant at equod.com.nospam (Gilles Lenfant)
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 12:12:55 +0100
Subject: running os commands [newbie]
References: <mailman.979287198.15620.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <93moif$fdm$1@reader1.imaginet.fr>

Have a look at popen(...) in the "os" package.

Should fit your needs.

popen (command[, mode[, bufsize]])

Open a pipe to or from command. The return value is an open file object
connected to the pipe, which can be read or written depending on whether
mode is 'r' (default) or 'w'. The bufsize argument has the same meaning as
the corresponding argument to the built-in open() function. The exit status
of the command (encoded in the format specified for wait()) is available as
the return value of the close() method of the file object, except that when
the exit status is zero (termination without errors), None is returned.
Availability: Unix, Windows.
Changed in version 2.0: This function worked unreliably under Windows in
earlier versions of Python. This was due to the use of the _popen() function
from the libraries provided with Windows. Newer versions of Python do not
use the broken implementation from the Windows libraries.



"Langa Kentane" <LangaK at discoveryhealth.co.za> a ?crit dans le message news:
mailman.979287198.15620.python-list at python.org...
> Greetings.
>
> I want to create a list call dfout[]
> In the list, I want to put the output of the df command.
> How do I go about doing this?  I have been trying to find this in the
docs,
> no luck so far.
>
> Thanks in advance
>
> __________________________________________________________
> Langa Kentane | TEL: (011) 290 3218
> Security Administrator | Cell: 082 606 1515
> DISCOVERY HEALTH | http://www.discoveryhealth.co.za
> __________________________________________________________________
>
>



From news at dorb.com  Mon Jan  1 09:53:31 2001
From: news at dorb.com (Darrell)
Date: Mon, 01 Jan 2001 14:53:31 GMT
Subject: Accessing variables created after import in imported files
References: <3A4FFBCB.76A7@loop.com> <t506vnkc2h6r72@corp.supernews.com> <3A503C07.6040@loop.com>
Message-ID: <LR046.8$Rb.28538@typhoon.nyroc.rr.com>

Hi Jesse

My take on this is that you have a mutual dependency to remove.
One possible solution:  Don't let file1 and file2 import each other.

Create file3:
import file1, file2

TheGame=file1.Game()
foo = file2.ThingThatUsesGameClass(TheGame)

--Darrell


"Jesse W" wrote:
> Dear Scott,
> Thank you very much, your solution works quite well.  I wonder why I
> did not think of it myself, or why I was so folish as to reject it when
> I had it.  But, now I am faced with another strange and puzzinling
> probblem; however, this one I have found a solution for, but I have no
> idea _why_ the solution works.  When I run the code I wrote up, with
> your change, it gives an AttributeError on the use of
> ThingThatUsesGameClass in file1.  However, if you reload file2 after
> importing it, then the code works perfectly.  Why?  How?  This makes no
> sense!  As far as I knew, importing and reloading were identical, as
> long as the file was unchanged.  Do you have any ideas about why this
> could be?
>
> Thank you for your solution,
> Jesse W
>





From fredp at mygale.org.nospam  Fri Jan 12 03:58:07 2001
From: fredp at mygale.org.nospam (Fred Pacquier)
Date: 12 Jan 2001 08:58:07 GMT
Subject: Web devel with python. Whats the best route?
References: <93cqvi0191h@news1.newsguy.com> <mailman.978910629.6814.python-list@python.org> <mailman.978975978.19612.python-list@python.org> <spenrose-E755EB.22423209012001@news.dnai.com> <mailman.979287866.16015.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Xns902765854E85PaCmAnRDLM@161.48.76.20>

Moshe Zadka <moshez at zadka.site.co.il> said :

>Another affirmative for my "every Python programmer wrote a web
>development framework. Sometimes two."
>
>For those who need the reference: "Every scheme programmer wrote
>an object system. Sometimes two."
>
>Equivalents for C/C++/Perl/Java would be appreciated <wink>

- every C programmer wrote two text editors (the second being the one that 
sort of worked) ?

- every perl programmer wrote 50 ways to do A++ without the '+' sign 
(sometimes 100) ?

wouldn't know about C++ or Java though :)

-- 
YAFAP : http://www.multimania.com/fredp/


From rcalco at cortechs.com  Mon Jan  1 17:08:38 2001
From: rcalco at cortechs.com (Bob Calco)
Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2001 17:08:38 -0500
Subject: Recursion
In-Reply-To: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCKEDMIGAA.tim.one@home.com>
Message-ID: <HBEJKOJGHBOIBHLHPMKGIECMCFAA.rcalco@cortechs.com>

Tim:

# You'll find that it's a lot faster to use iteration than
# recursion in these
# languages.

One of Remco's examples did precisely that.

def factor(N):
  n = 1L
  for i in xrange(1,N+1):
    n *= i
  return n

I tried it with 5000, and then 10000, and while it isn't super fast in
either case, and seemed more than twice as slow at 10000 than 5000, it sure
did work.

# Python distinguishes between ints (native C "long") and longs (unbounded)
# because ints are often used as arguments to C libraries.  If you want
# unbounded ints, you have to "do something" to get them.  This distinction
# made more sense 10 years ago when it was first made; it's gotten
# more clumsy
# not because of factorials <wink>, but because systems are getting larger,
# and systems that support files larger than 2Gb are becoming more common
# (i.e., 32-bit signed ints no longer suffice for some common file
# operations).  The distinction between ints and longs isn't as sharp as it
# used to be:  every release, a few more pieces of the internals tolerate
# either.  Over time, I expect the user-visible distinction will mostly
# vanish.

And mostly used to either straight programming languages with lots of types
or completely typeless scripting languages, I overlooked the obvious fact,
which dawned on me mere seconds after I hit the "Send" button (as such
things always do), that Python did in fact make such a distinction. If I
were trying to do this in C or Object Pascal, I don't think I'd have made
this error even if I were completely smashed drunk. For one thing, the
compilers wouldn't let me...

While I like the idea of teaching programming concepts with high level
languages, there's still no substitute for real C (even Assembly)
experience, and no reason whatsoever to believe that such experience would
not be most helpful in really mastering even a simple but subtle script
language like Python. "Apply what you know" -- if that's the sign of
intelligence, I just got humbled. :/

# Except you didn't test recursion:  you inadvertently tested limits on
# integer sizes (or, in Perl's case, the overflow limit of IEEE-754
# doubles).
#
# most-people-should-never-use-numbers<wink>-ly y'rs  - tim

See my last email response to Remco. I was just trying to do something
simple that didn't require much thought. Alas, there is no such thing in
this business!

I'm fitting myself for a nice designer model dunce cap right about now,
green and yellow, to match the Python icon... Thanks to all who helped me
determine the right size (XL)!

most-people-should-never-try-to-work-with-a-mild-hangover-ly yours,

;)

Bob Calco




From dan at eevolved.com  Tue Jan 30 15:50:16 2001
From: dan at eevolved.com (Dan Parisien)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 20:50:16 GMT
Subject: Fatal Python error: Interpreter not initialized (version mismatch?) 
References: <zlDd6.177240$f36.6941177@news20.bellglobal.com>
Message-ID: <cOFd6.13572$Pm2.265491@news20.bellglobal.com>

Dan Parisien wrote:

I have more info. It is a thread problem. The program is a socket server 
with a custom crypto module. I launch a thread to start the main loop to 
listen for new connections. For each new connection, I launch a new thread 
that handles that connection. In that thread I try and call a method from 
my crypto module and I get the error in the subject.

If I do not use a thread for the server loop, it does not give the error. 
The method is called fine, the data decrypted, then unpickled and life is 
good. There is a problem however... I have no ____ing clue why that 
happens. Does anyone in python devel know what triggers that error msg?

thanks,
Dan


> Ack! Help!
> 
> Anyone ever seen this? I am trying to call the method of a class instance
> and it dies with the message in the subject.
> 
> I placed debug statements everywhere and it doesn't seem to even touch the
> called code! It dies while calling the code...
> 
> Anyone know what's up? I am using threads and I think that is the problem
> but it is still one of the weirdest things.
> 
> Also, with digital creations now hosting python and all that, do you think
> they will create a better navigatable site for python.org? I'm up for hire
> to do it myself if no one has time :) The point is the site search engine
> doesn't work at all and I was trying to look for help on this subject...
> There is a LOT of info on the site, but I can't seem to find any help
> whenever I have a problem...
> 
> Thanks,
> Dan
> dan at eevolved.com




From alain at onesite.org  Wed Jan 10 11:16:37 2001
From: alain at onesite.org (Alain TESIO)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 17:16:37 +0100
Subject: Please help with feeding a popen2 pipe with a large input
Message-ID: <ma2p5t860t53llqp9jec2umqcj2073hf5d@4ax.com>

Hi,
Hi, I'm trying to use popen2 (on a linux machine), I can't write more than 16K in the
input stream and I can't figure out how to use the bufsize parameter.
I've tried to open the pipe with bufsize=1000 and write 1000 bytes at a time.

Here is the test program I'm using with a pipe to cat and the output, it hangs when trying
to write the 16th block.

Any hint is welcome !

Alain


total length is 249866, bufsize is 1000
writing from 0 to 999 ...ok
writing from 1000 to 1999 ...ok
writing from 2000 to 2999 ...ok
writing from 3000 to 3999 ...ok
writing from 4000 to 4999 ...ok
writing from 5000 to 5999 ...ok
writing from 6000 to 6999 ...ok
writing from 7000 to 7999 ...ok
writing from 8000 to 8999 ...ok
writing from 9000 to 9999 ...ok
writing from 10000 to 10999 ...ok
writing from 11000 to 11999 ...ok
writing from 12000 to 12999 ...ok
writing from 13000 to 13999 ...ok
writing from 14000 to 14999 ...ok
writing from 15000 to 15999 ...ok
writing from 16000 to 16999 ...


def MyPipe(command,string_in):
	bufsize=1000
	import popen2
	(pipe_out,pipe_in,pipe_err)=popen2.popen3(command,bufsize)
	l=len(string_in)
	sys.stdout.write("total length is %i, bufsize is %i\n" % (l,bufsize))
	start=0
	end=0
	while end<l:
		end=min(l,start+bufsize)
		sys.stdout.write("writing from %i to %i ..." % (start,end-1))
		pipe_in.write(string_in[start:end])
		sys.stdout.write("ok\n")
		start=start+bufsize
	sys.stdout.write("closing pipe stdin")
	pipe_in.close()
	string_err=pipe_err.read()
	pipe_err.close()
	string_out=pipe_out.read()
	pipe_out.close()
	return (string_out,string_err)

f=open("tmp")
h=f.read()
f.close()

(out,err)=MyPipe("cat",h)



From erno-news at erno.iki.fi  Wed Jan  3 20:23:54 2001
From: erno-news at erno.iki.fi (Erno Kuusela)
Date: 04 Jan 2001 03:23:54 +0200
Subject: SMB Module
References: <92n1lh02evv@drn.newsguy.com> <slrn94vpc7.544.mballen@angus.foo.net> <92pkod011eh@drn.newsguy.com> <3A508B35.1D328941@iit.demokritos.gr> <92s8b30ddt@drn.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <kuitnwnm8l.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>

In article <92s8b30ddt at drn.newsguy.com>, Armin Steinhoff
<Armin_member at newsguy.com> writes:

| What the heck should offer a 'SMB client library' to that planet
| since we are able to mount SMB volumes??

i don't know who you mean by "we", but certainly the vast majority
of the platforms python runs on have no capability to mount
smb/cifs filesystems natively.

i propose we drop all the internet protocol modules from the
standard library since most of them show up as file systems
under plan 9 :)

all joking aside, even on systems which implement a smb
filesystem driver in the os, there are plenty of reasons
a python module could come in useful.

for example, on many unixish systems, it requires root privilege to
mount a filesystem. and as others have noted, there are other smb
services besides disk shares. not to mention that doing these
things from python is much more convenient and portable
when you don't have to shell out to the os every time you
want to do something.

 -- erno


From quickdry at users.sourceforge.net  Tue Jan 30 07:35:24 2001
From: quickdry at users.sourceforge.net (Steven Adams)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 12:35:24 GMT
Subject: beep
References: <11941-3A6D0F37-61@storefull-166.iap.bryant.webtv.net>
Message-ID: <gyyd6.7338$pG5.23769@news1.rdc1.nsw.optushome.com.au>

my version of winsound doesn't have 'beep' in it, but:

win32gui.MessageBeep(1)

seems to do the trick, whether done from the console or not.
--
Steven

--
Cogito cogito ergo cogito sum -- "I think that I think, therefore I
think that I am." -- Ambrose Bierce, "The Devil's Dictionary"
<clickron at webtv.net> wrote in message
news:11941-3A6D0F37-61 at storefull-166.iap.bryant.webtv.net...
> What do I write to just have my pc beep. I have windows 98. I tried
> import winsound
> winsound.beep(400,500)
> But I get an error(exception) message.
> I'm not sure what I"m doing (obviously), I just downloaded Python
two
> days ago and I'm just playing with it to see what I can do. Help!
>
> Ron




From rzilavec at tcn.net  Thu Jan 18 03:40:10 2001
From: rzilavec at tcn.net (Richard Zilavec)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 08:40:10 GMT
Subject: This is my first program in Python
Message-ID: <3a66a585.268350144@news.tcn.net>

I've spent the last few weeks trying to find a good book on Python.
Seems that most stores don't carry a large selection, however I found
The Quick Python Book..  The material seems to flow in the right
direction and the fonts are easy on the eyes.

Anyways, I wrote my first program but was stumped on readline().  I
could get the first line, but not the rest of the file.  I tried
searching python.org and could not find an example.... well here it
is:

import string
file = open("/tmp/globs", 'r')
for line in file.readlines():
        (first,second) = string.split(line,':',1)
        print first
file.close()

This was my first attempt, which looks like it should work but failed:
invalid syntax.  Is this not possible?
while line = file.readlines():

Am I using string.split properly?

I was quite happy with how easy this was to put together, I'm just not
sure if its totally correct.

--
 Richard Zilavec
 rzilavec at tcn.net


From gbolton at wanadoo.fr  Sat Jan 27 09:20:37 2001
From: gbolton at wanadoo.fr (Gawain Bolton)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 15:20:37 +0100
Subject: os.path.normpath()
References: <3A6F4777.60A82F5B@wanadoo.fr> <H%Ib6.5231$oz1.72342@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <3A72D935.76775777@wanadoo.fr>

Steve Holden wrote:

> "Gawain Bolton" <gbolton at wanadoo.fr> wrote in message
> news:3A6F4777.60A82F5B at wanadoo.fr...
> > I'm using Python v1.5.2 on Sun and Linux and have noticed what, to me,
> > is strange behaviour with the os.path.normpath() function.
> >
> > Namely, I noticed the following:
> >
> > 1. os.path.normpath('///A///B///C///D') gives '///A/B/C/D'
> >
> I don't know why this would be ... although it *is* a valid, path, of
> course. I presume you'd like just one leading slash on absolute paths.
>
> > and
> >
> > 2. os.path.normpath('/../A/../A/B') gives '/../A/B'
> >
> > I'm sure I'm not the first one to notice this, and so I'm assuming this
> > is "correct".  Could anyone please explain:
> >
> > A) Why leading slashes are not collapsed into a single slash.
> > B) Why a leading /../ is not collapsed.
> >
> Don't see any problem here. What would you like, an absolute path? As a

No I already have an "absolute path".  An absolute path is merely one that
begins with a leading slash.  And if you take a look at the documentation for
normpath, it says:

normpath (path)
     Normalize a pathname. This collapses redundant separators and up-level
references, e.g. A//B, A/./B and A/foo/../B all become A/B. It does not
normalize
     the case (use normcase() for that). On Windows, it converts forward
slashes to backward slashes.

So normpath() should remove the unnecessary /../ and multiple leading slashes.

I downloaded and compiled Python 2.0 for Sun and found that normpath() in
Python 2.0 does not suffer from these problems!  Therefore, this must be in a
bug Python 1.5 and 1.5.2 and probably earlier versions as well.


Gawain




From timd at macquarie.com.au  Sun Jan 28 23:02:01 2001
From: timd at macquarie.com.au (Timothy Docker)
Date: 29 Jan 2001 15:02:01 +1100
Subject: Tkinter vs wxPython: your opinions?
References: <3A6F899F.E164F628@home.com> <952lo9$qme$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <m4ir91nf1l2.fsf@macquarie.com.au>

thelazydogsback at my-deja.com writes:

> (1) Does one toolkit behave better in a multi-threaded application than
> another? In addition to the design of the toolkit, any kit that uses
> native widgets has native restrictions on threading and the GUI (e.g.,
> only "main" thread talks to the GUI, etc.), so I'd guess that self-draw
> GUIs would have a chance of behaving better here. Also OS-threads would
> have more issues than stackless "microthreads" where re-entrency would
> be the biggest problem (?). When threads spawned from the main thread
> need to update GUI state, what is the standard method used? Does wx's
> doc/view architecture make this more straightforward?

Neither tkinter or wxWindows are thread-safe in the sense that
multiple threads can make arbitrary GUI calls simultaneously (I'm not
aware of any GUI toolkits that are thread-safe in this sense).

Both toolkits work OK using the common approach of making a single
thread responsible for the GUI, and other worker threads for other
purposes. In my opinion, wxWindows does this in a much better way -
there is a wxPostEvent() call that is callable from any thread. It
notifies the GUI thread of some condition, usually by activating some
callback. Arbitrary python data can be attached to the event.

With tkinter, on the other hand, the GUI thread must periodically poll
for some sort of update from a worker thread - meaning that there is
an annoying tradeoff between polling frequency (response time), and
idle cpu usage. I see this as a significant limitation.

> (2) I assume I could have an app the used both wx & tk at the window
> level, but is it possible to host WX inside of Tk, or visa-versa, at
> the frame and/or widget level?

I don't think so.

Tim


From teep at inet.co.th  Sat Jan  6 22:56:37 2001
From: teep at inet.co.th (Prateep Siamwalla)
Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2001 10:56:37 +0700
Subject: Should I learn Python or Java?
References: <HEO56.5504$y9.2881293@typhoon.we.rr.com> <938h6r$26j$1@troll.powertech.no> <938ops$b51$1@news.inet.co.th>
Message-ID: <938p9i$bn7$1@news.inet.co.th>

Ok, correction, you can do stuff with java+ms apps:

"Automating excel with Java"
http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/q169/7/96.asp


Prateep Siamwalla <teep at inet.co.th> wrote in message
news:938ops$b51$1 at news.inet.co.th...
> I second that recommendation.  Awesome book.
>
> Programming python using Mark Hammond's excellent contributions on Win32 +
> COM stuff, you'd also find yourself in a better position to interface with
> the usual Microsoft suspects (Word/Excel/PPT) than you would, should you
be
> working in Java.  (Anyone out there, correct me if I am mistaken about
this)
>
> -teep
>
>
> Syver Enstad <syver at NOSPAMcyberwatcher.com> wrote in message
> news:938h6r$26j$1 at troll.powertech.no...
> > "Charlotte Williams" <charlottwilliams at mediaone.net> wrote in message
> > news:HEO56.5504$y9.2881293 at typhoon.we.rr.com...
> >
> > Hi Charlotte, I don't know what languages you should learn (probably
best
> to
> > learn them all), but for windows programming with Python and considering
> > your VB background you really should buy/borrow/steal a copy of Python
> > programming on win32 from O'Reilly. I started with Python a couple of
> months
> > ago with that book and can recommend it warmly.
> >
> >
>
>




From bernhard at abnoba.intevation.de  Tue Jan 16 05:51:42 2001
From: bernhard at abnoba.intevation.de (Bernhard Reiter)
Date: 16 Jan 2001 10:51:42 GMT
Subject: do python programmers avoid the mac?
References: <3A607DCC.7EF7809C@mjs400.co.uk>
    <slrn96232d.62n.grante@isis.visi.com>
    <93ung1$oe0$3@newsserver.rrzn.uni-hannover.de>
    <93v8da$k9l$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <94193u$h32$1@newsserver.rrzn.uni-hannover.de>

In article <93v8da$k9l$1 at nnrp1.deja.com>,
	cpsoct at my-deja.com writes:
> Does LinuxPPC come with python installed? 

It comes with the standard CD (python 1.5.2 for LinuxPPC2kQ4) 
and installs if you do not deselect it.

> Or is there a build out there to download that is ready to run, 
> or do you have to compile it as the chipset is different? 

I compiled python 2.0 without problems from source.
You should be able to use a .src.rpm without problems.
There are many compiled rpms for GNU/Linux/ppc around.

> I am on an old PPC and finding python mac IDE a rough go. 
> I am considering buying the LinuxPPC CD, is it a good way to go? 

I like it, so I can recommend it, but your milage might vary.

If you download the CD note that it is a bit troublesome to get the
image mounted or burned correctly.

> Is there another LinuxPPC distribution besides the one @
> http://www.linuxppc.com/

Yes.
Debian is available for ppc architechture.	
	http://www.debian.org/ports/powerpc/

YellowDog 	http://www.yellowdoglinux.com/

There is Suse, MkLinux, TurboLinux and probably more..
	Bernhard
-- 
Professional Service around Free Software                (intevation.net)  
The FreeGIS Project                                         (freegis.org)
Association for a Free Informational Infrastructure            (ffii.org)
FSF Europe                                            (www.fsfeurope.org)


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sat Jan 20 10:27:43 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 16:27:43 +0100
Subject: Different deployment considerations (was: Python & GUI?)
References: <3A674896.C7E52247@crepido.com> <3A698869.198D6263@crepido.com> <301DBDE62C14BD35.683C43A181247CB3.8398E5428BE1B406@lp.airnews.net>
Message-ID: <94cm0r01b6j@news2.newsguy.com>

"Cameron Laird" <claird at starbase.neosoft.com> wrote in message
news:301DBDE62C14BD35.683C43A181247CB3.8398E5428BE1B406 at lp.airnews.net...
    [snip]
> side?  Gordon's Installer makes Win* Tkinter apps into
> single files ...  I know of *no* other of the many Python
> GUI bindings which enjoys this benefit.
>
> Does anyone have evidence to the contrary?

I haven't checked, but, why wouldn't Installer (or other
such solutions) work equivalently for, say, wxPython?


Alex





From cjc26 at nospam.cornell.edu  Sat Jan 13 19:09:13 2001
From: cjc26 at nospam.cornell.edu (Cliff Crawford)
Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 00:09:13 GMT
Subject: Web devel with python. Whats the best route?
References: <93plkv$c4e$4@newshost.accu.uu.nl>, <93pii2$c4c$2@newshost.accu.uu.nl> <mailman.979331115.13089.python-list@python.org> <mailman.979391354.21685.python-list@python.org> <mailman.979406475.31968.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <J6686.62593$_G5.8625488@typhoon.nyroc.rr.com>

* Moshe Zadka <moshez at zadka.site.co.il> menulis:
| [Cliff Crawford]
| > InterTran translates the phrase "Tim Peters" as "[Tim] Godfather".  :)
| > Does anyone else think this is not just a coincidence, or is it
| > just me? Creepy.
| 
| [Steve Holden]
| > Assim *?* um membro da fonte de alimenta??o, ou nivela talvez um
| > dos l?deres.  Eu suspeitei este tudo longitudinalmente!  Tim, porque
| > n?o voc? vem limpo e confess--a verdade ? para fora agora.  Eu
| > n?o sei onde voc? est? escondendo mas n?o lhe ajudar? mais por
| > muito tempo.
| 
| [Tim Peters]
| > Toda para a direita, eu tive-o.  ? hora de vir limpo!  ? aqui a
| > verdade sobre o todo o isto!  Realmente, eu matei o real Tim
| > Peters alguns meses h?, imediatamente antes do movimento a
| > BeOpen.  Desde que pareceu que BeOpen me era sobre, mim projetou o
| > movimento ?s cria??es de Digital.  Mas agora, parece que est? todo
| > para fora no aberto.
| > De agora sobre, eu fa?o as r?guas.  Guido era um figurehead que eu
| > necessito n?o mais por muito tempo.  A programa??o revisada para
| > Python 2.1 est? na maneira.
| > Entre as caracter?sticas de planeamento:
| > * Sintaxe especial para consultar ao self (o @x ? equivalente a
| >   self.x)
| > * Os dois pontos ser?o opcionais
| > * Um adicional da constru??o alternativa do la?o: loop/aslongas
| >   para os la?os n-and-1/2.
| 
| [Martijn Faassen]
| > Parece que h? algum tipo da intera??o estranha entre o NNTP (ou ?
| > MailMan?)  e os paradoxes temporal aqui, isso distorcem mensagens
| > transmitem sobre, ?s vezes simplesmente cortando as pe?as
| > aleat?rias.  Eu quero saber se as mensagens estiverem recebidas bien
| > no gateway do not?cia-?-e-correio, ou se houver algum problema com um
| > router no meio.
| 
| [Moshe Zadka]
| > Huh?  Eu n?o v nenhuma tal coisa em minha extremidade.  O que o
| > inferno ? voc? que fala sobre.  Todas as mensagens que eu v na
| > python-lista parecem perfeitamente finas.  Talvez seu cliente do
| > e-mail tem um problema?  E n?o tente dizer-me que os artigos eles
| > mesmos s?o os problemas.  Voc? est? indo ao blabber aproximadamente
| > nessa teoria dum raio da fonte de alimenta??o de seu?
| 
| [Martijn Faassen]
| > Voc? n?o olha o que voc? est? respondendo a hoje, Moshe?  Todas
| > estas mensagens s?o cortadas fora no meio.  Apenas como isso.
| > Poder-se-ia ser que a fonte de alimenta??o est? executando
| > censoring seletivo no material sens?vel?
| 
| Martijn, por a nth vez, h? *no* PSU.  N?o houve, e nunca haver?.
| Esta ? toda alguma inven??o louca de c.l.py.  Ningu?m est? cortando
| todas as mensagens no meio, ningu?m est? tentando censor qualquer
| coisa.  ? justo uma estadia pythonic engra?ada, com nada de tr?s
| sinister ele.
| 
| Voc? pensaria quase que eu reescrevia as mensagens que eu respondo a,
| para o ouvir falar.
| 
| poss-n?s-retorn-?-atividade-usual-neg?cio-de-java/perl/smalltalk-bashing-ly
| y'rs, Z.

Why is everyone posting in Portuguese?  I feel left out now.


-- 
Cliff Crawford               http://www.people.cornell.edu/pages/cjc26/
                             print "Just another Python hacker"


From stevee at recombinant.demon.co.uk  Thu Jan 18 15:26:40 2001
From: stevee at recombinant.demon.co.uk (Stephen D Evans)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 20:26:40 +0000
Subject: Canvas geometry
References: <3A67353A.4B9328EC@inenco.no>
Message-ID: <3A675180.D77643FC@recombinant.demon.co.uk>

Have you tried the <configure> event ? The height and width of the canvas
are in the event properties. Here are some code fragments:


def configureEvent(event):
    width = event.width
    height = event.height


canvas.bind('<Configure>', configureEvent)

Stephen D. Evans


Hans Kristian Ruud wrote:

> Hello
>
>       I try to retrieve the dimensions of a canvas in the following
> manner:
>
>       h = eval( self.canvas.cget('height')  )
>       w = eval( self.canvas).cget('width')  )
>
>       however this does noe yield the true values (as I have
> demonstrated by this
>       code):
>
>       self.canvas.create_line(5,5,5,h-5,w-5,h-5,w-5,5,5,5,fill='red')
>
>       The code in question is based upon the example draw3.py in
> Grayson's book
>       Python and Tkinter programming (Chapter 10.2)
>
>       How do I retrieve the "true" extensions of the canvas?
>
>       P? forh?nd takk ( Thanks in advance )
>
>       - hans kristian -
-------------- next part --------------
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From pen_man at my-deja.com  Thu Jan 11 09:46:10 2001
From: pen_man at my-deja.com (penman)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 14:46:10 GMT
Subject: Doing the simplest thing with Tkinter Canvas
Message-ID: <93kgvf$3q3$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

How do you draw a point with Tkinter?
I tried create_line(x1,y1,x1,y1) but it didn't show a point; I had to
call create_line(x1,y1,x1+1,y1+1) or something instead.

I don't think there is no way to do the simplest thing.
Can anyone help me?

Thanks in advance.


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From rturpin at my-deja.com  Mon Jan  1 11:42:42 2001
From: rturpin at my-deja.com (rturpin at my-deja.com)
Date: Mon, 01 Jan 2001 16:42:42 GMT
Subject: A single, general looping construct? (was: why no "do : until"?)
References: <92jj3j$ff7$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <92m9pm$d19$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <B3z36.122$9s1.18804@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com> <3A4EC5B1.8912E571@engcorp.com> <x8G36.156$9s1.31209@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <92qc21$538$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

In article <x8G36.156$9s1.31209 at e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com>,
  kragen at dnaco.net (Kragen Sitaker) wrote:
> I would want to outdent it because, in my view, it isn't
> part of the loop body; it's part of the loop structure
> itself, just like the while 1: at the beginning. ..

Hi, Kragen. I see your reasoning, and it reminds me
of something.

A couple of decades ago, when the programming journals
were full of arguments about the "right" control
statements for structured programming, someone proposed
a single iteration statement that generalized (a) the
"while" statement, (b) the "do .. until" statement,
and (c) the loop with an exit in the middle. I forget
where the paper appeared, the name of the author, and
the exact syntax. But the core idea, in Pythonic syntax,
would look like this:

    do: <A> while <x>: <B>

Where <A>, and <B> are code blocks, and <x> is the
conditional. With indentation there are three forms:

    # "while" form
    do while <x>:     # In this case, make "do" optional
        <B>
    ..

    # "repeat .. until" form
    do:
        <A>
    while <x>
    ..

    # "exit in the middle" form
    do:
        <A>
    while <x>:
        <B>           # Loop continues at "do"
    ..

I always thought this was a slick solution to the question
of iterative control structures.  If the language allows
repetition of the "while <x>: <B>" in the same loop, this
construct provides multiple exits.  (I mention this, even
though my first reaction to it is: yuch.)  Obviously, the
language could choose to express the exit condition rather
than the loop condition, with a keyword such as "until".

My own view is this: I am plenty happy with "while". If
Guido decides to expand the iteration constructs, I would
prefer to see him think about a generalization of the
"while" statement, rather than adding a second and third.
Keep it simple. Less is better than more. One way to do
everything. Etc.

Mostly, I was experiencing deja vu.  This was a hot topic
back in the old, old days.  I thought if people were going
to discuss it hotly again, they should know about some of
the results from back then.

Russell



Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From msrisney at rocketmail.com  Sat Jan 20 09:32:01 2001
From: msrisney at rocketmail.com (msrisney at rocketmail.com)
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 14:32:01 -0000
Subject: SVG Tools?
Message-ID: <94c7h1+27e5@eGroups.com>

I've been messing about with a collection of Perl modules,
and scripts related to dynamic SVG generation.
Are there any equivilant  Python efforts out there ?,
anybody up for a SVG project?

marc risney 




From Dan.Rolander at marriott.com  Thu Jan 25 10:32:13 2001
From: Dan.Rolander at marriott.com (Rolander, Dan)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 10:32:13 -0500
Subject: Why isn't crypt.py in Win32 Python distribution?
Message-ID: <6176E3D8E36FD111B58900805FA7E0F80CCF6323@mcnc-mdm1-ex01>

Just curious. Why isn't crypt.py included in the standard python
distribution for Windows? I needed the crypt() function and finally found
fcrypt.py which was very helpful, but it seems it should be standard in
Windows just like in the Unix distribution.

Thanks,
Dan




From fredrik at effbot.org  Tue Jan 23 15:36:24 2001
From: fredrik at effbot.org (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 20:36:24 GMT
Subject: += return value
References: <94ko5t$e5n$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <cXlb6.8462$AH6.1366443@newsc.telia.net>

"shochet at hotmail.com>" wrote:
> I am confused with the return values of the augmented assignment
> opertators. When redefining them in a class, what should they return?
> Coming from a C++ background, I assumed returning None (aka void) would
> suffice, but it looks like you need to return self (?)
>
> class MyInt:
>     def __init__(self,value):
>         self.value = value
>     def __iadd__(self, other):
>         self.value = self.value + other.value
>         return None
>
> f = MyInt(1)
> g = MyInt(2)
> f+=g
>
> f is now None, not a MyInt with a value of 3 as I expected.
>
> So that is fine, returning self in __iadd__ does the trick, but now all
> the C++ code I have wrappers for that return void do not work. Does
> this appear broken to anybody else? Why do these operators need any
> return value? It would seem enough simply to set the object's internal
> state.

It's up to the object to determine if += should modify the lvalue,
or create a new object (not all objects can be modified in place).

For a little more info, see:

    http://python.sourceforge.net/peps/pep-0203.html

Hope this helps!

Cheers /F




From max at alcyone.com  Sat Jan 13 13:33:36 2001
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 10:33:36 -0800
Subject: is Python fully object oriented ?
References: <20010110184830.13286.00000826@ng-fg1.aol.com> <3A5E5C21.3E036BFE@intelligenesis.net> <93pk14$c4e$1@newshost.accu.uu.nl>
Message-ID: <3A609F80.12071516@alcyone.com>

Martijn Faassen wrote:

> In C++, it's often recommended you do something along these lines:
	...
> i.e. prefix members with something like 'd_' so that they can be
> easily
> distinguished from local variables and method arguments. This also
> makes writing constructors cleaner, as demonstrated.

Such things are included in coding styles fairly frequently, but
identifier prefixes are largely unnecessary in C++.  See recent (make
that perennial) discussions in comp.lang.c++.moderated.

Besides, if you want to use member prefixes, you already have one that
is guaranteed to work for members and not for non-members:  It's called
`this->'.

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, US / 37 20 N 121 53 W / ICQ16063900 / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ The chicken was the egg's idea of getting more eggs.
\__/ Samuel Butler
    Product's Quake III Arena Tips / http://www.bosskey.net/
 Tips and tricks from the absolute beginner to the Arena Master.


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Tue Jan 23 06:54:51 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 12:54:51 +0100
Subject: How do I know all thrown exceptions of a function?
References: <mailman.980206945.31338.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <94jre501ds7@news1.newsguy.com>

"Delaney, Timothy" <tdelaney at avaya.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.980206945.31338.python-list at python.org...
> > I think this covers all worries with backwards compatibility,
> > whilst moving towards a well-defined exception system.
>
> Sorry - all worries with backwards compatibility *except* the basic one
that
> functions would now need to declare the exceptions they raise. I don't
know
> how to get around that one.

What about the C++ approach: a function not declaring what
exceptions it raises is deemed to be a "legacy" function,
potentially able to raise ANY exception whatsoever (functions
that need to express "I'll never raise any exception" have
to do that explicitly).


Alex





From harrc at my-deja.com  Thu Jan 11 00:22:40 2001
From: harrc at my-deja.com (harrc at my-deja.com)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 05:22:40 GMT
Subject: Reflection: Calling Methods Dynamically by Name
Message-ID: <93jfur$9rj$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

Question for Guido or language experts:

Does Python have the ability to call methods of a class by name?  For
example, I have a string: "ProcessData" and the class MyClass has a
method called ProcessData.  Is there a way I can do something like this:

mc = MyClass()
str = "ProcessData"
args = ("Data", 1, 3)
CallMethodByName(mc, str, args)

or perhaps:

mc = MyClass()
str = "ProcessData"
args = ("Data", 1, 3)
mc.CallMethodByName(str, args)


This reflection-esque behavior would be very useful.  Any ideas?

Thanks,

Chad Harrington



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http://www.deja.com/


From max at alcyone.com  Sun Jan 28 17:44:45 2001
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 14:44:45 -0800
Subject: Hack request: rational numbers
References: <951h34$tch$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, <Pine.LNX.4.21.0101251759070.28148-100000@kev.ioc.ee> <mailman.980702855.389.python-list@python.org> <2W%c6.128157$ge4.46108705@news2.rdc2.tx.home.com> <3A749696.2BD57BA9@alcyone.com> <mailman.980721037.21559.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3A74A0DD.30DE420A@alcyone.com>

Issac Trotts wrote:

> > (There is a geometric algebra module for Python, by the way.)
> 
> I've been looking for something like this.  Do you know the URL?

I don't know if there's a Web page for it, but it was announced on
comp.lang.python:

    http://www.deja.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=662575210

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, US / 37 20 N 121 53 W / ICQ16063900 / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ That it will never come again is what makes life so sweet.
\__/ Emily Dickinson
    Computer science / http://www.alcyone.com/max/reference/compsci/
 A computer science reference.


From rra at stanford.edu  Thu Jan 18 12:13:19 2001
From: rra at stanford.edu (Russ Allbery)
Date: 18 Jan 2001 09:13:19 -0800
Subject: How to close all files between fork and exec?
References: <yv27l3upooj.fsf@lionsp093.lion-ag.de> <944o0k$pi0$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu> <87zogp7auu.fsf@erlenstar.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: <ylsnmg3hsg.fsf@windlord.stanford.edu>

In comp.unix.programmer, Andrew Gierth <andrew at erlenstar.demon.co.uk> writes:
>>>>>> "Donn" == Donn Cave <donn at u.washington.edu> writes:

>  Donn> Unfortunately it looks to me like no one has ever put
>  Donn> getdtablesize() in Python.

> does it have sysconf(_SC_OPEN_MAX)?

BTW, in the pointless portability department, getrlimit returns more
accurate results than sysconf on some patched Linux kernels (INN therefore
tries getrlimit first).

-- 
Russ Allbery (rra at stanford.edu)             <http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>


From scarblac at pino.selwerd.nl  Tue Jan 30 19:57:48 2001
From: scarblac at pino.selwerd.nl (Remco Gerlich)
Date: 31 Jan 2001 00:57:48 GMT
Subject: curly-brace-aphobic?
References: <3A74EBD6.3C87FD15@seebelow.org> <slrn97a9fu.7sf.clgonsal@keeshah.penguinpowered.com> <3A757FBE.E54C5ECD@seebelow.org> <mailman.980789494.4239.python-list@python.org> <slrn97c6bs.bjo.scarblac@pino.selwerd.nl> <mailman.980870616.378.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrn97eob8.gjm.scarblac@pino.selwerd.nl>

D-Man <dsh8290 at rit.edu> wrote in comp.lang.python:
> | It's almost odd that list/dict indexing is different from indexing a module
> | or instance...
> 
> I'm not familiar with indexing a module or instance.  What exactly
> does it mean?

Well, writing "string.split" is inconsistent, shouldn't it be string[split]
or string["split"]?

It's like indexing the module. It is actually a dict lookup internally.
They're not the same thing really since an identifier suddenly becomes a
string and so on, but it's just a connection my mind made...

-- 
Remco Gerlich


From vsbabu at erols.com  Tue Jan  2 18:17:06 2001
From: vsbabu at erols.com (Satheesh Babu)
Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2001 18:17:06 -0500
Subject: HTML Parsing
References: <Vvq46.6762$ca.70091@typhoon.jacksonville.mediaone.net>
Message-ID: <92tngk$8mg$1@bob.news.rcn.net>

You might want to buy Frederick's book. I bought it last week
and it is certainly twice as worth as the price you pay for it.

vsb

"Denis Voitenko" <richmedium at mediaone.net> wrote in message
news:Vvq46.6762$ca.70091 at typhoon.jacksonville.mediaone.net...
> I am trying to do some HTML parsing with htmllib but not getting anywhere.
> Can someone give a couple of basic examples?
>
>




From rmack at eznet.net  Sun Jan 21 12:30:32 2001
From: rmack at eznet.net (Randolph MacKenzie)
Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 12:30:32 -0500
Subject: How to write to tempfile, remove whitespace, and copy to source ..?
Message-ID: <t6m772ggf7gj8a@corp.supernews.com>

I want a module that will remove the extra whitespace from all text files in
a target directory. I want to use the tempfile command (on a Windoze2000
box). I guess I'm having trouble opening the tempfile and appending to it...
and then, after processing it, I need to copy (overwrite) it to source file.

Any suggestions ?


# X2space.py removes all extra whitespace from textfiles

target = "E:\\text\\"
import glob, fileinput, os, shutil, string, tempfile
filelist = glob.glob(target+"*.TXT")

for fl in filelist:
 L3 =[];
 tmp = tempfile.TemporaryFile('a')
 #tmpfile = open(tmpflname,'a')
 for line in fileinput.input(fl):
  tmp.write(string.strip(string.join(string.split(line))))
 tmp.close()
 shutil.copyfile(tmp,fl)






From rol9999 at attglobal.net  Wed Jan 24 09:41:54 2001
From: rol9999 at attglobal.net (Roland Schlenker)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 09:41:54 -0500
Subject: PSU uses emacs?
References: <948e4b$hm0$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <948fvj$oq1$1@panix6.panix.com> <3A67CDC3.7EACB07D@Lugoj.Com> <9490t009on@news2.newsguy.com> <3a685ef2.3403798@reading.news.pipex.net> <949rii0a76@news1.newsguy.com> <3a6eb2fa.2347467@reading.news.pipex.net>
Message-ID: <3A6EE9B2.DBF28436@attglobal.net>

Ray Drew wrote:
> I'm having problems getting the indentation right with gvim. I've got
> the following in my .vmrc file:
> 
> au FileType py set ts=4
> au FileType py set sw=4
> au FileType py set expandtab on
> au FileType py set ff=unix
> 
> as far as I can make out from the docs, this should set those options
> for all .py files. Tabs appear as 4 chars in gvim but when viewed in
> an IDLE edtor window, tabs appear as 8 and throw a syntax error when
> imported (files originally created in IDLE with tab space of 4). Do I
> need to do anything else to get this to work?
> 
> Ray Drew
> CIA UK

The following works for me;

set filetype

au FileType python set ts=4
au FileType python set sw=4
au FileType python set expandtab
au FileType python set ff=unix

'py' should be 'python', see /usr/share/vim/vim56/filetype.vim to 
see how how the command 'filetype' is processed, and 'expandtab' 
does not need the following 'on'.

Roland Schlenker


From local2me at my-deja.com  Sat Jan 20 00:12:56 2001
From: local2me at my-deja.com (local2me at my-deja.com)
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 05:12:56 GMT
Subject: help retrieving / storing info in dictionary or gadfly
References: <93u48n$65t@dispatch.concentric.net> <mailman.979556300.9232.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <94b6ol$s2l$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

In article <mailman.979556300.9232.python-list at python.org>,
  Andreas Jung <andreas at andreas-jung.com> wrote:
> On Mon, Jan 15, 2001 at 06:10:31AM +0000, Bryan Webb wrote:
> > Hello,
> >     I have a dictionary that has records with keys from 1 to 2^128
> > I can build a list and sort the keys in order, then search thru the
list of
> > sorted keys.
> >     If the list has 1,2,3,4,5,7,8,9 and I need to search for 6. 6 is
not in
> > the list , so I need the record that is closest to 6 but not greater
than 6.
> > Is there a way to further index the list of keys to do this ?
>
> The trivial approach is to implement some kind of binary search.
Please
> refer to secondary literature how to implement binary search.


Or use bisect.py in standard distribution.


. . . . . . . . . .
www.Local2Me.com - Personalized, Local Internet Communities for SF
Peninsula Cities!  Connect with your neighbors via group email.


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From max at platonix.com  Tue Jan  9 10:03:34 2001
From: max at platonix.com (Max F. Rotem)
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 18:03:34 +0300
Subject: CGI with Python
References: <8psisk$178$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <E6Lw5.4496$F9.131994@news.corecomm.net> <8q05q6$vnf$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <3a5b286e@news.barak.net.il>

First check the file permissions !!!
Second , in a source file at the first line add this >>

#!/usr/bin/python

or some other path where python can be found , so than compile it again

Best Regards,
Max F. Rotem

<paralizer at my-deja.com> wrote in message news:8q05q6$vnf$1 at nnrp1.deja.com...
> Thanks for your reply.
>
> Anyway, I still do not know how to run .pyc on the Apache... I read the
> file "error_log" in log directory. It said about "Apache don't know how to
> execute that file type"...I think I have to add file type (MIME) and
Handler
> as well... but I don't know python MIME type....
> as php3 is x-httpd-php3 ... and what is about python and its Handler?
>
> Looking forward to your reply.
>
> Thanks.
>
> In article <E6Lw5.4496$F9.131994 at news.corecomm.net>,
>   lynx <a at b.c> wrote:
> > u at book.co.th, in <8psisk$178$1 at nnrp1.deja.com>:
> >
> > > Hi experts, I am very new with python and linux. and i want to create
a
> > > CGI script in binary format.
> >
> > why?
> >
> > > first of all, i had a script that written
> > > in .py. and i compiled it with python command line... python -c
"import
> > > sourcefile" after that i got a file with .pyc extension in a binary
> > > format. is it able to run as CGI?
> >
> > not without the python executable. the "binary" file you have produced
is
> > not like the ordinary, executable-on-their-own binary files on your
> system,
> > see; it's not a standalone program.
> >
> > > anyway i heard that there is a tool called "Freeze". i have tried to
> > > freeze a .py code to make an executable file... you know?, it made a
> > > huge executable...
> >
> > yes, because it basically included the entire python bytecode
> interpreter -
> > that part of the ``python'' command that would have interpreted and run
> the
> > binary .pyc file you created. it's a large part of python, as you found
out.
> >
> > > any suggestion?
> >
> > install python on the webserver? either that, or (gaackk!) write your
> scripts
> > in C.
> >
> >
>
>
> Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> Before you buy.




From andreas at andreas-jung.com  Wed Jan 17 15:44:48 2001
From: andreas at andreas-jung.com (Andreas Jung)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 21:44:48 +0100
Subject: Securing passwords stored inside of a database field using Python
In-Reply-To: <20010118012739.CF619A83E@darjeeling.zadka.site.co.il>; from moshez@zadka.site.co.il on Thu, Jan 18, 2001 at 03:27:39AM +0200
References: <20010117165350.A24421@yetix.sz-sb.de>, <NKh96.874$eI2.31689@NewsReader> <Pine.LNX.4.30.0101171749020.28607-100000@fep132.fep.ru> <20010117165350.A24421@yetix.sz-sb.de> <20010118012739.CF619A83E@darjeeling.zadka.site.co.il>
Message-ID: <20010117214448.B995@yetix.sz-sb.de>

On Thu, Jan 18, 2001 at 03:27:39AM +0200, Moshe Zadka wrote:
> On Wed, 17 Jan 2001, Andreas Jung <andreas at andreas-jung.com> wrote:
> 
> > When it is neccessary to decrypt stored passwords you could try an algorithm
> > like IDEA. Maybe take a look at the mxCrypto or amkCrypto package for Python.
> > They implement the most popular crypto algorithms. But take care of the
> > US export controls for encryption software.
> 
> A bigger problem might be patents: IDEA, for example, is patented.

I know. IDEA is protected by software patents. That's the reason
why e.g. GnuPG does nut IDEA and RSA but e.g. Blowfish. 

Andreas



From amk at mira.erols.com  Thu Jan 18 22:18:16 2001
From: amk at mira.erols.com (A.M. Kuchling)
Date: 19 Jan 2001 03:18:16 GMT
Subject: curses, python20/152, RH70/62, postgresql problems
References: <94731d$9j4$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <slrn96fd9n.52f.amk@207-172-36-33.s33.tnt6.ann.va.dialup.rcn.com>

Let's tackle these one by one.
On Thu, 18 Jan 2001 15:44:49 GMT, dubal at my-deja.com <dubal at my-deja.com> wrote:
>We then tried to compile Py20 source on RH7. It
>gives some LONG_BIT error and stops.

This is not a GCC problem; it is a glibc problem.  Red Hat has
released an updated RPM for glibc, so installing it should let you
compile Python 2.0 without difficulty.  Trying to use kgcc wouldn't
help, because it's not the compiler's fault.

>We found following problems:
>1. Color cannot be used because the required vars
>are not available.

The curses module was greatly enhanced for Python 2.0.  The version
included with 1.5.2 is older and simpler, so features such as colour
aren't available.

>This python has API version 1009, modules _pg has
>version 1007
>How to fix this?
>It seems to work after this warning. We checked
>the pygresql site. It says their next version
>will have py20 compatibility. Do you think it is
>ok to use _pg with the version mismatch?

Presumably the _pg RPM has been compiled for Python 1.5.2, where the
API_VERSION was 1007; in Python 2.0 the API_VERSION is 1009.  This
warning indicates the mismatch, but Python's C API tries to be
backward compatible, so it probably shouldn't cause trouble, beyond
printing the warning every time.  Recompiling the _pg extension with
Python 2.0 installed should fix this, though the extension won't
participate in 2.0 features such as Unicode and garbage collection;
for a database module, those probably don't matter.

--amk



From peter at engcorp.com  Sun Jan  7 22:26:25 2001
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2001 22:26:25 -0500
Subject: Execution of import (was Re: boolean xor)
References: <93ace8$nmo$1@panix3.panix.com> <H6366.4370$Qb7.621903@newsb.telia.net>
Message-ID: <3A593361.32C0FBFA@engcorp.com>

Fredrik Lundh wrote:
> 
> Aahz Maruch wrote:
> > I need a boolean (not bit-wise) xor function.  I've got the following
> 
> def xor(a,b):
>     from operator import truth
>     return truth(a) ^ truth(b)

An aside: does the 'from .. import' statement 
execute every time the function 'xor'
is called, or only during the execution 
of the 'def' statement?


From phd at phd.pp.ru  Tue Jan  9 12:16:24 2001
From: phd at phd.pp.ru (Oleg Broytmann)
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 20:16:24 +0300 (MSK)
Subject: mxTools (was Re: why no "do : until"?)
In-Reply-To: <Iw5jLKALa0W6Ewjq@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0101092015010.5204-100000@fep132.fep.ru>

On Tue, 9 Jan 2001, Robin Becker wrote:
> SQL modules are even less essential in the core.

   'fcourse :) But it is essential to give them all a common ground to
represent date/time in a standard way. If mxDateTime would not in the core,
many modules will use different incompatible represenatation :(

Oleg.
----
     Oleg Broytmann            http://phd.pp.ru/            phd at phd.pp.ru
           Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN.




From moshez at zadka.site.co.il  Sat Jan 13 04:36:45 2001
From: moshez at zadka.site.co.il (Moshe Zadka)
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 11:36:45 +0200 (IST)
Subject: How robust is Python ?
In-Reply-To: <03d501c07cad$3a8a4320$020000c3@node02>
References: <03d501c07cad$3a8a4320$020000c3@node02>, <9358nn$3c5$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, <9354f9$vbi$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, <LOBBJMHOIFOLFIPFANHJAEJFCHAA.zope@TheWebsons.com> <mailman.978716227.31692.python-list@python.org> <mailman.978721929.3640.python-list@python.org> <20010106103938.8FCAFA84F@darjeeling.zadka.site.co.il>
Message-ID: <20010113093645.012A0A82D@darjeeling.zadka.site.co.il>

On Fri, 12 Jan 2001, "Sandipan Gangopadhyay" <sandipan at vsnl.com> wrote:

> If I try a catch-all except, continue hits except on the outer level rather
> than while. Probably the reason that it results in syntax error.
> 
> while binAliveMarker:
>   try:
>     if binWannaStartAgainLater:
>       time.sleep(1)
>       continue
>     work code ...
>   except:
>     pass
> 
> Any suggestions to make it work with continue (or an alternative) ? Apart
> from removing continue completely by making the work code inside an else ?

I'm afraid that's your only alternative, unless you can afford to wait
for Python 2.1 or switch to JPython, both of which support continue
inside a try clause.
-- 
Moshe Zadka <sig at zadka.site.co.il>
This is a signature anti-virus. 
Please stop the spread of signature viruses!



From Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org  Mon Jan  1 00:56:05 2001
From: Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org (Scott David Daniels)
Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 21:56:05 -0800
Subject: Accessing variables created after import in imported files
References: <3A4FFBCB.76A7@loop.com>
Message-ID: <t506vnkc2h6r72@corp.supernews.com>

Try:
    ...
    #file 2
    import file1

    class ThingThatUsesGameClass:
       def __init__(self):
           print file1.TheGame.foo #this should use the instance of the Game
#class
    ...

"Jesse W" <jessw at loop.com> wrote in message news:3A4FFBCB.76A7 at loop.com...
> Sorry about the somewhat unclear subject line.  I am not totally sure
> of the general form of my problem, so it is hard to write it as a
> subject line.  My problem involves a program I am writting to allow
> people to play a really fun card game I know, Hot Death Uno.  Insted of
> posting the actual code(It's really long, and even snipits would be
> pretty complex) I have enclosed code which demostrates the problem, but
> is not the actual code I am working with.  If someone want's to see it,
> I would be glad to e-mail it to them.
> The code is in two files:
> #file 1
> import file2
>
> class Game:
>     def __init__(self):
> global TheGame
> TheGame=self
> #this lets other classes access the current
>   #instence of the game without knowing the name it was
> #created as.
> self.foo='Some random variable'
> x=Game()
> foo=file2.ThingThatUsesGameClass()
>
> #file 2
> import file1
>
> class ThingThatUsesGameClass:
>     def __init__(self):
> print TheGame.foo #this should use the instance of the Game #class
> created in the other file.
>
>
> Thank you very much for your time,
> Jesse Weinstein




From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Thu Jan 25 17:12:02 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 23:12:02 +0100
Subject: Markov.py
References: <94eavq$5cl$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <94eulk$dduhj$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de> <3A6B7716.68A62115@home.com> <94h5he$9kl$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <94ides$6t2$1@animus.fel.iae.nl> <94jrt701eg4@news1.newsguy.com> <94l59e$4kc$1@animus.fel.iae.nl> <94mbet01ruh@news2.newsguy.com> <94n920$e66$1@animus.fel.iae.nl> <94p6i40244j@news2.newsguy.com> <94q35s$6bn$1@animus.fel.iae.nl>
Message-ID: <94q8en0489@news2.newsguy.com>

"Carel Fellinger" <cfelling at iae.nl> wrote in message
news:94q35s$6bn$1 at animus.fel.iae.nl...
    [snip]
> > dedicated IBM mainframe with a few CPU's and 'vector features',
> > or equivalent (3rd party vector-processing units for the same
> > class of mainframe).  It _was_ 1985 before 'we' (actually
> > some brilliant HW guys in IBM Research) turned out special-
>
> Ah that project (mid 80-s IBM Research), it's claims *stunned* us at
> the time!

Yep, _that_ one:-).  I still have the T-shirt around with our
"P(A|B)=P(B|A)P(A)/P(B)" motto of that time...:-).


> > for occasional [and inadvertent] lack-of-pause between two
> > adjacent words... which occasionally made HER go wrong, too!).
>
> striking similarity, makes me wonder: your father build a bot before?

Hmmm, given he's a coroner, this makes me think of Frankenstein-
monster like scenarios:-).


Alex





From jepler at inetnebr.com  Mon Jan 29 11:28:39 2001
From: jepler at inetnebr.com (Jeff Epler)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 10:28:39 -0600
Subject: invalid-token syntax hook (was Re: Hack request: rational numbers)
In-Reply-To: <000001c08a00$80b7b4d0$f05aa8c0@lslp7o.int.lsl.co.uk>; from tony@lsl.co.uk on Mon, Jan 29, 2001 at 02:33:52PM -0000
References: <slrn979o0q.29m.jepler@potty.housenet> <000001c08a00$80b7b4d0$f05aa8c0@lslp7o.int.lsl.co.uk>
Message-ID: <20010129102836.B1279@inetnebr.com>

Jeff Epler wrote:
> > Why not go all the way and make the whole Python grammar extensible
> > in Python?
 
On Mon, Jan 29, 2001 at 02:33:52PM -0000, Tony J Ibbs (Tibs) wrote:
> Ooh! Ooh! I have two immediate reactions:
> 
> 1. What a great idea - I can *use* that (when I ever get back to the
> mxTextTools preprocessor - an extension to the language is *so* much
> more elegant than a preprocessor - and there's something fun about using
> Spark to parse code to allow one to use mxTextTools)

Yes -- on the one hand, having the ability to extend Python's grammar
for a particular situation is one that sounds wonderful.

> 2. What a scary idea - would I ever trust anyone (possibly including me)
> to use that?

On the other hand, you're right here too.  As a rule, Python people have
disdain for the TMTOWTDI mindset of another language, and in fact one of
the chief quarrels with that language is the introduction of a bit of
syntax for every cute little thing ("unless" and "if" as operators;
"or" and "||" boolean operators with differing precedence, etc).

In fact, the idea that served as an inspiration to Mobius is one that I
think everyone in the room will find repugnant -- The ability to use the
HTML tag to introduce nested program blocks.  I had a vision of
HTML-producing Python programs that would read like

    <HTML>
	<HEAD>
	    <TITLE> "This is really cool, eh?"
	<BODY>
	    <TABLE>
		for item in news():
		    <TR> item.tohtml()
	    "generated by"
	    <A HREF="http://incolor.inetnebr.com/pyhtml"> "PyHTML"

> I'll be very interested to know what the BDFL thinks (although I guess
> that I can guess).

I have no illusion that our BDFL would accept something like Mobius into 
core Python, but on the other hand, Mobius is itself a pure Python
program and will be distributed under the Python license, so that anyone
can include it in their project.  Whether anybody will choose to do so
is an open question, because working on Mobius has been a fun adventure
for me.

Jeff



From phd at phd.russ.ru  Mon Jan 22 04:07:01 2001
From: phd at phd.russ.ru (Oleg Broytmann)
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 12:07:01 +0300 (MSK)
Subject: Help for DCOracle examples
In-Reply-To: <3A6A415B.D83D6173@cnri.reston.va.us>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0101221205280.3773-100000@fep132.fep.ru>

On Sat, 20 Jan 2001, Weiming He wrote:
>     >>> dbc=Connect("weiming/weiming")
>     >>> c=dbc.cursor()
>     Traceback (innermost last):
>       File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>     AttributeError: 'Connection' object has no attribute 'cursor'

   Very strange. I used DCOracle 1.3.0, and had no problems. The code I
sent to you was real code from real working (worked, actually :) programs.

Oleg.
----
     Oleg Broytmann            http://phd.pp.ru/            phd at phd.pp.ru
           Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN.




From wlipp at web.de  Fri Jan 12 11:06:42 2001
From: wlipp at web.de (Wolfgang Lipp)
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 16:06:42 -0000
Subject: my uthreads execute serially
Message-ID: <005201c07cb1$a8030640$0200a8c0@sewon.ac.kr>


can anybody help me with this problem? i am using stackless python 2.0 on win98se, on a laptop. when i execute the following
program:

    import uthread9 as uthread
    import time

    def timer_elapsed( started ):
        return time.time() - started

    def timer_over( started, stoptime ):
        return timer_elapsed( started ) > stoptime

    def timer( letter, stoptime ):
        started = time.time()
        print "%s is started" % letter
        while not timer_over( started, stoptime ):
            pass
        print '%s is done after %3.2fs' % ( letter, timer_elapsed( started ) )

    uthread.new( timer, 'a', 5 )
    uthread.new( timer, 'b', 3 )
    uthread.new( timer, 'c', 2 )

    uthread.run()

my output looks like this:

    a is started
    a is done after 5.05s
    b is started
    b is done after 3.02s
    c is started
    c is done after 2.04s

which clearly indicates that the threads do *not* run in the parallel. moreover, the outputs from all the examples on
http://world.std.com/~wware/uthread.html also point into interpreting them as being executed one thread after the other. since all
the snippets as well as the test suite u1.py from that page work without complaining, i guess that there is no problem with my
installation.

furthermore, i tried a few examples using the threading module, and the results appear to be ok. because of this and because
uthreads are not, to my understanding and unlike the threading module, dependent on the os, it can't be my laptop that's to small to
fit in threads :-| ...

can anyone help me parallelize my uthreads?


yours,

-wolf








From dsh8290 at rit.edu  Wed Jan 17 18:46:15 2001
From: dsh8290 at rit.edu (D-Man)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 18:46:15 -0500
Subject: Python and Industry, IBM I'm afraid
In-Reply-To: <941c14$dok$1@nnrp1.deja.com>; from sbrunning@bigfoot.com on Tue, Jan 16, 2001 at 11:41:25AM +0000
References: <3A63D9E8.F9B74ACE@mjs400.co.uk> <mailman.979631000.28993.python-list@python.org> <941c14$dok$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <20010117184615.F23790@harmony.cs.rit.edu>

On Tue, Jan 16, 2001 at 11:41:25AM +0000, Simon B. wrote:
[snip]
| on the '400. The main issue is that the AS/400 doesn't come with a C
| compiler. There is a C compiler available, but it's expensive, and

I don't know much about the IBM hardware products, but I did see AIX
mentioned in this thread and have heard of gcc on AIX.  I have also
heard that gcc doesn't work reall well on AIX, but it would/could be
worth a try.


<curiosity digression>
	I have a part time job at a local grocery store that has a
	video department.  The computer system they use is an IBM
	mainframe with AIX (4 I think).  What is the language that the
	software is most likely written in (earliest copyright on it
	is late '80s, around the time the ANSI C standard was
	published)?  COBOL or C (or some other language)?
</curiosity digression>

-D




From thazel at equipecom.com  Wed Jan 10 11:01:12 2001
From: thazel at equipecom.com (Tom Hazel)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 11:01:12 -0500
Subject: New development tools for Python Folks
Message-ID: <E39BEBA2095FD411B77800D0B781FC163D1155@eccexch01.equipecom.com>

Python Folks,

I have been a long user & lover of python since 1992. Over the years I have
created a tool kit for C++ software development. I have also created some
useful python interfaces to these tools (Timers, IO processing, Threads,
Events, Locks, TCP Socket Server etc...). The end of this email has three
python test programs demonstrating some of the python interfaces.

take a look at http://txobject.sourceforge.net/

see REAMDEs in tar balls to build txObject ATK 1.3 and the txPyObject ATK
1.3

Enjoy

Tom

##########################################################################
# Threads
##########################################################################

import txLock  # locks are not used in this test, but feel free to use them
import txEvent
import txThread

EXIT_FLAG = 0
EXIT_EVENT = txEvent.txEvent("EXIT")

def func(*args):
        print 'args from func call : ', args

        while not EXIT_FLAG:
                print 'looping'
                txThread.yield(EXIT_EVENT, 1000)

print 'Starting thread test'

txThread.start(func, ("abc", 123))

txThread.yield(10000) # wait ten seconds

EXIT_FLAG = 1

txEvent.trigger(EXIT_EVENT)

##########################################################################
# Timers
##########################################################################

import txTimer
import txEvent
import txThread
import txExtendedTimer # this is not used here, but feel free to use it

COUNT = 0

EXIT_EVENT = txEvent.txEvent("EXIT")

def callback (*args):
        global COUNT

        print 'timer fired : ', args

        if COUNT < 10:
                COUNT = COUNT + 1
                return txTimer.CONTINUE
        else:
                txEvent.trigger(EXIT_EVENT)
                return txTimer.STOP

timer = txTimer.txTimer(callback, ("abc", 123), 1000) # one second timer

txThread.yield(EXIT_EVENT)

##########################################################################
# IO Processing
##########################################################################

import sys
import txSync
import txEvent
import txThread

COUNT = 0

EXIT_EVENT = txEvent.txEvent("EXIT")

def callback (*args):
        global COUNT

        read = raw_input("") # get data so to reset stdin fd state

        print 'io fired : ', args, read

        if COUNT < 10:
                COUNT = COUNT + 1
        else:
                txEvent.trigger(EXIT_EVENT)

        return

id = txSync.registerIO(callback,("abc",
123),sys.stdin.fileno(),txSync.IORead)

print '\nEntire something in the console window and then press turn...
repeat'

txThread.yield(EXIT_EVENT)





From keisari_ at hotmail.com  Wed Jan 24 05:48:23 2001
From: keisari_ at hotmail.com (Joonas)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 12:48:23 +0200
Subject: Parsing html links
Message-ID: <3A6EB2F7.D26C7974@hotmail.com>

How can I make a script im Python that changes all
'http://myaddress.spam ' into '<a
href="http://myaddress.spam">http://myaddress.spam<a/>'

I have made a script that works, but it only changes the first address.

If it helps you in some languages it would be
msg =~ s/(\s)(http:\/\/\S+)(\s)/$1<a href=\"$2\">$2<\/a>$3/ig;


###############link.py################33
#! /usr/local/bin/python
import sys, regex, string

link_pattern = regex.compile('\(.*[\n
]\)\(http:\/\/[a-zA-Z0-9_/\.]+\)\([\n ]\).*')

line = """this is the first line
http://myaddr.spam
and python's http://www.python.org
the last line"""

line = " "+line+" "
if link_pattern.match(line) >= 0:
  regs = link_pattern.regs   # start/stop indexes
  a,  b  = regs[2]           #osoite  antaa osoitteen rajat
  a2, b2 = regs[1]           #ekarako
  a3, b3 = regs[3]           #tokarako
  osoite   = line[a:b]       #ottaa slicen
  alku     = line[:b2]
  loppu    = line[a3:]
  line = '"%s<a href="%s">%s</a>%s"' % (alku,osoite,osoite,loppu)

print line
#############link.py######################




Joonas.


From dalke at acm.org  Wed Jan 10 04:48:28 2001
From: dalke at acm.org (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 02:48:28 -0700
Subject: mxTools (was Re: why no "do : until"?)
References: <CC59868A0A76D311B1F50090277B321C1F3795@VRTMAIL> <mailman.979085770.30088.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <93havm$6m2$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net>

Paul Prescod wrote asked:
>Cna mxTextTools work with streams without reading them all into memory?
>I find it quite a pain to use hand-crafted RE-based lexers on streaming
>information.

No, it cannot.  Nor can it use a memory mapped file.  :(

Luckily, my largest files are agglomeration of much smaller
records so I ended up using the two-level approach of parsing
out a record then passing it to mxTextTools to parse.  I
also use mxTextTools to identify the records.  In this case I
went through the pain of making that code chunkable, but because
the separators all fit on a single line it was at least doable.

Going back to /F's earlier question of what mxTextTools does
that the sre module doesn't, let me point out a project I've
been working on called Martel (see
http://www.biopython.org/~dalke/Martel).

A lot of the formats in computational biology and chemistry
are pretty simple from a CS language theory viewpoint.  They
are much closer to regular than context free.  However,
lexical identification is very dependent on where the text is
in the file so lex/yacc is cumbersome to use.

What I've done is write a parser generator which takes the
format description as a regular expression pattern and
creates the mxTextTools tag table.  This parses the file to
generate a parse tree, which is traversed to produce SAX
events to a ContentHandler.  The event names are defined
using the (?P<named>group) notation.

By using mxTextTools instead of sre I could use my alternate
method of passing parse tree information back using SAX
events.  Compare that to sre where if a group has a repeat
match in the text only the last match is returned.  I could
also create some new, non-standard syntax, like

  (?P<count>\d+)( (?P<word>\w+)){count}

which matches the "word" pattern "count" times, so it would
match
   1 Spam
   3 Spam and eggs
but not
   2 Ni

On the other hand, my implementation doesn't allow the same
amount of backtracking that a real regular expression engine
has, but I think that's because I haven't been able to figure
out how to do it so it works quickly - my parsers using
mxTextTools outperforms hand-written ones in Python and Perl.

 Time      Description
23:28.59  using mxTextTools
28:54.69  hand-written in Python
30:12.85  hand-written in Perl
38:20.65  a different Perl implementation

Yes, Python parses faster than Perl for this case!

As a tangential remark, the records start with a line which
starts with "ID".  One of the packages uses Perl's ability
to redefine the record delimiter from "\n" to "^ID".  That
identification occurs in Perl's internals so should be quite
fast.  The mxTextTools equivalent is even faster:

0:56.63 grep "^ID"
1:27.89 using mxTextTools to find "^ID"
1:47.71 using Perl's special variable

I guess now I should use mmap and see how long it takes the
sre module to find the 800,000 "\nID" records in my file.  :)

Oh, and I'll be presenting my paper about this project at
the upcoming Python conference.

                    Andrew
                    dalke at acm.org





From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sat Jan 20 07:15:26 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 13:15:26 +0100
Subject: how to test for nesting inlist
References: <94bhte$4iv$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <94bvgu0kt4@news2.newsguy.com>

<cpsoct at my-deja.com> wrote in message news:94bhte$4iv$1 at nnrp1.deja.com...
> Is there a way to test if a list in nested and if so how deep? so that
> you could type
>
> y=[1,2,3]
> x=[1,[2,3]]
>
> howDeep(y)
> howDeep(x)
>
> and it would return 0 (no nesting) for y and 1, for x (1 level of
> nesting)
>
> Is this possible? It would seem really useful, but i don't see anything
> in the docs about how to do this.

It's not a built-in (because its usefulness is not perceived as all
that big...), but it's easy to code it yourself.  Assuming you only
care about lists and not tuples or other forms of 'nesting', e.g.:

def howDeep(x):
    if type(x)!=type([]):
        return 0
    return 1+reduce(max,map(howDeep,x),0)

Note that this returns 0 for a non-list, 1 for a list not containing
any other lists, etc; this seems more natural to me than what
you requested!  Just change both occurrence of 0 into -1 to
get exactly your specs.

Of course, either or both of the recursion and the 'functional'
approach can be removed if one so wishes, but I think this is
the simplest approach to such a typical functional-programming
question:-).


Alex





From robin at alldunn.com  Fri Jan 26 14:59:33 2001
From: robin at alldunn.com (Robin Dunn)
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 11:59:33 -0800
Subject: Database-like module in Python?
References: <mailman.980510762.2783.python-list@python.org> <kubssu5cjx.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>
Message-ID: <9Ikc6.3$1Pu.3145847@news.randori.com>

> 
> | Hi, I started working on a program for storing and retrieving
> | miscellaneous bits of information. I don't really want to use a
> | "real" database like Oracle though; I would prefer something
> | Pythonic. In fact, a dictionary would do, if not for memory
> | problems; having all the information in memory at the same time is
> | not an option, because the collection of data might grow quite
> | large.  (Speed is not so important.)
> 

http://pybsddb.sourceforge.net/


--
Robin Dunn
Software Craftsman
robin at AllDunn.com       Java give you jitters?
http://wxPython.org      Relax with wxPython!




From andreas at andreas-jung.com  Mon Jan 15 05:57:46 2001
From: andreas at andreas-jung.com (Andreas Jung)
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 11:57:46 +0100
Subject: help retrieving / storing info in dictionary or gadfly
In-Reply-To: <93u48n$65t@dispatch.concentric.net>; from bww00@amdahl.com on Mon, Jan 15, 2001 at 06:10:31AM +0000
References: <93u48n$65t@dispatch.concentric.net>
Message-ID: <20010115115746.A2641@yetix.sz-sb.de>

On Mon, Jan 15, 2001 at 06:10:31AM +0000, Bryan Webb wrote:
> Hello,
>     I have a dictionary that has records with keys from 1 to 2^128
> I can build a list and sort the keys in order, then search thru the list of
> sorted keys.
>     If the list has 1,2,3,4,5,7,8,9 and I need to search for 6. 6 is not in
> the list , so I need the record that is closest to 6 but not greater than 6.
> Is there a way to further index the list of keys to do this ?

The trivial approach is to implement some kind of binary search. Please
refer to secondary literature how to implement binary search. 
> 
> Could I use GADFLY to do this.

This depends on the number of your datasets. When your data does not fit 
into your main memory I would use a database (e.g. Gadfly). Maybe
you can tell us about your environment...

Andreas



From tim.one at home.com  Mon Jan  1 18:33:06 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2001 18:33:06 -0500
Subject: Recursion
In-Reply-To: <HBEJKOJGHBOIBHLHPMKGIECMCFAA.rcalco@cortechs.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCIEEDIGAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Bob Calco]
> ...
> def factor(N):
>   n = 1L
>   for i in xrange(1,N+1):
>     n *= i
>   return n
>
> I tried it with 5000, and then 10000, and while it isn't super fast
> in either case, and seemed more than twice as slow at 10000 than
> 5000, it sure did work.

Your observations are on target but your intuition is off base:  the time it
takes to multiply two C ints is (on most modern machines) independent of
their values.  But the time to multiply two unbounded ints (the way Python
does it) is proportional to the product of the number of bits in each.
Here, work these two out "by hand", and time yourself:

2 * 3
98 * 57

I'm betting the second one took more than twice as long as the first one
<wink>.  Then try

2309874023984023908293 * 821768768768726487687682364876328

by hand.  So, yes, factor(10000) will be substantially more than twice as
slow as factor(5000) -- the former eventually has to deal with much larger
numbers, and larger numbers cost more to operate on.

> ...
> If I were trying to do this in C or Object Pascal, I don't think
> I'd have made this error even if I were completely smashed drunk.
> For one thing, the compilers wouldn't let me...

Most C compilers would have let you get away with

int factor(int n) {
     if (n == 1) return 1;
     return n * factor(n-1);
}

at both compile- and run- times, since few C runtimes even have options to
let you check for int overflow.  Python differs in that respect.  It was a
natural trap for you to fall into!

> While I like the idea of teaching programming concepts with high
> level languages, there's still no substitute for real C (even
> Assembly) experience,

We still implement Python in C, too <wink>.

> and no reason whatsoever to believe that such experience would
> not be most helpful in really mastering even a simple but subtle
> script language like Python. "Apply what you know" -- if that's
> the sign of intelligence, I just got humbled. :/

Speaking of which (C, not humble pie), another thing for you to consider is
the ease of extending and embedding your language of choice with/in C.
Python has an excellent story there; Perl currently does not; unsure about
Ruby.

python-is-to-bliss-as-alcohol-is-to-hangovers-ly y'rs  - tim




From trotts at mit.edu  Fri Jan 12 02:09:42 2001
From: trotts at mit.edu (Issac Trotts)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 23:09:42 -0800
Subject: is Python fully object oriented ?
In-Reply-To: <3A5EA074.D5AF4A98@intelligenesis.net>; from benh@intelligenesis.net on Fri, Jan 12, 2001 at 05:13:09PM +1100
References: <20010110184830.13286.00000826@ng-fg1.aol.com> <3A5E5C21.3E036BFE@intelligenesis.net> <3A5E935D.CF641658@dcube-resource.be> <3A5EA074.D5AF4A98@intelligenesis.net>
Message-ID: <20010111230942.A539@llnl.gov>

> Im sure you grow used to it, but Im not convinced its preferable. My general
> preference, shared by many programmers I suggest, is that extraneous code be
> minimized. That also seems to be a theme in pythons design, I notice. Its perfectly
> legal to explictly use "this" everywhere in C++/Java if you like it that way, you
> just arent forced to.

I don't know if this helps, but it's perfectly legal to use a name other
than "self" in Python, e.g.,

class SpamChunk:
  def __init__(s):
    s.color = 'green'

> > > 2. Access control is more informal in Python than C++/Java. I know in the case
> > > of Java at least that security provisions depend in part on access control
> > > being strictly enforced, and additonally there are a number of design
> > > principles that assume 3 tiered (public, protected, private) access levels.
> > > * Is Pythons leading underscore mechanism more of a convention?
> >
> > > * It is strong enough to build security mechanisms on?
> >
> > Even the C++ support for public/protected/private access is not strong
> > enough to enforce security. <snip>
> 
> In other words, no. However, Java's is. private members really are very private, and
> this gives the programmer design options not available perhaps in Python. IMO, cases
> where you simply cant do something, by any technique, in a language, are ones to
> watch out for. Possibly python could benefit from a strong private modifier.

Even if Python would be better off with a strong private modifier
(which I think would be draconian), it's never going to be a matter
of "simply can't" because one can always write a C extension to
work around the privacy.

> > The bottom line, IMO, is that Python has managed here (as with so many
> > other aspects of the language) to provide a very simple approach that at
> > least in practice is just as effective as the equivalent C++ or Java
> > feature,
> 
> Except security. And in some domains, where you have someone elses untrusted code
> executing, that really does matter. Python can prevent accidental access to private
> fields but not a deliberate attempt. When people consider building very large
> systems from python, they surely will encounter this barrier. It may prevent pythons
> use where it would otherwise be appropriate.

Come to think of it, what would prevent someone from writing a
C extension that violates access control in a Java program?

Issac




From moshez at zadka.site.co.il  Mon Jan  1 16:58:06 2001
From: moshez at zadka.site.co.il (Moshe Zadka)
Date: Mon,  1 Jan 2001 23:58:06 +0200 (IST)
Subject: Interesting behaviour of the assignment
In-Reply-To: <p6qk88fs90m.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>
References: <p6qk88fs90m.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>, <mailman.978295158.17661.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <20010101215806.C8EB9A84F@darjeeling.zadka.site.co.il>

On 01 Jan 2001, Martin von Loewis <loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de> wrote:

> First I thought: wow, that must be the shortest way to create
> "enumerated" objects. But then I noticed a flaw: SPAM == EGGS.  So I
> still like the FoodType class approach best, although this restriction
> can be worked around with
> 
> SPAM = []
> EGGS = [SPAM]
> WHAT_COMES_NEXT = [EGGS]

This reminds me of the time I needed to create unique objects which are
different from several objects and are immutable. I came up with:

def make_different_from(*args):
	return args

(Oh, yeah, the original objects were immutable too...)

I could have used the old:
class Unique:
	pass

def make_different_from(*args):
	return Unique()

But there were didactical reasons not to.

Consider:

def make_integers_until(n):
	ret = []
	for i in range(n):
		ret.append(apply(make_different_from, ret))
	return ret

Guessing why the function is called that way is an exercise to the reader.

who-needs-numbers-anyway-ly y'rs, Z.
-- 
Moshe Zadka <sig at zadka.site.co.il>
This is a signature anti-virus. 
Please stop the spread of signature viruses!



From timr at probo.com  Sat Jan 20 13:22:12 2001
From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts)
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 10:22:12 -0800
Subject: SQL-Statement with Python
References: <3A62E224.7AEE805E@students.uni-linz.ac.at> <93ut4q031hd@news1.newsguy.com> <28uc6ts3fn93pon3tahrvbqb26bc4of9hq@4ax.com> <946cod230tl@news2.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <rjlj6t0bnju2mbbkcr53984dc56oeem1qv@4ax.com>

"Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>Oops -- you're perfectly right!  Funny thing is that the code as I
>posted it *DOES* work -- dunno who's removing the extra backslashes,
>or why they don't hurt things.

For the most part, Windows doesn't care about redundant backslashes, except
at the very beginning of a filename.

C:\Dev [4]>> dir c:\windows\\\\system\gdi32.dll

 Volume in drive C is DURHAM
 Volume Serial Number is 3945-0106
 Directory of C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM

GDI32    DLL       155,648  05-11-98  7:01p GDI32.DLL
         1 file(s)        155,648 bytes
         0 dir(s)        1,487.53 MB free
C:\Dev [5]>> 


>Note that this is *NOT* a case where forward slashes can be used
>instead of backward ones!  Changing the filename assignment to:
>
>filename = 'd:/mssdk/bin/wind.mdb'
>
>results in an exception on connection.Open:
>
>pywintypes.com_error: (-2147352567, 'Exception occurred.', (0, 'Microsoft
>JET Database Engine', "Could not find file 'd:\\mssdk\\bin\\wind.mdb'.", 
>None, 5003024 , -2147467259), None)

Now, THIS surprises me greatly.  In virtually all of Windows (except for
the command shells), forward slashes work perfectly well.  I'll have to
remember this!
--
- Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
  Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.


From HDWINTER at janbe.jnj.com  Thu Jan  4 03:14:17 2001
From: HDWINTER at janbe.jnj.com (De Winter, Hans [JanBe])
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 09:14:17 +0100 
Subject: (no subject)
Message-ID: <27CD61B9B111D211B0DC0008C72435B7019EC43B@janbebeex1.janbe.jnj.com>

Is anyone aware of existing Python classes and objects to perform
statistical analysis, data analysis, and machine learning? I'm particularly
interested in partial-least sqaures implementations, neural networks, and
genetic algorithms.

Many thanks in advance,

Hans De Winter
Belgium
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From beazley at cs.uchicago.edu  Fri Jan 19 06:19:38 2001
From: beazley at cs.uchicago.edu (David Beazley)
Date: 19 Jan 2001 05:19:38 -0600
Subject: CFP 2001 O'Reilly Open Source Convention 
Message-ID: <aus8zo7wzzp.fsf@gargoyle.cs.uchicago.edu>

		    *** CALL FOR PARTICIPATION ***

		   O'Reilly Open Source Convention

			   July 23-27, 2001
			San Diego, California

			 *** Python Track ***


O'Reilly & Associates is pleased to announce the 3rd annual Open
Source Convention. This event is the central gathering place for the
Open Source community to exchange ideas, techniques, and to advance
the language. The Open Source Convention is a five-day event designed
for programmers, developers, and technical staff involved in Open
Source technology and its applications. The convention will be held at
the Sheraton San Diego Hotel and Marina, San Diego, California, July
23-27, 2001.

The program committee of the Python track invites submissions of
tutorial and convention presentation on topics of interest to
Python programmers.  

Tutorial Presentations
----------------------
The first two days of the convention are devoted to tutorials.
Tutorial proposals must include the following:

  -  Tutorial length (3 or 6 hours)
  -  Target audience including any recommended prerequisites.
  -  What attendees will learn.
  -  Tutorial outline--a short bullet list description of the
     course itself.
  -  Speaker name
  -  Speaker biography
  -  Complete speaker contact information.

The program committee particularly encourages the submission of
tutorials that are designed to present core Python topics to a
technically sophisticated audience (i.e., tutorials should favor
technical depth versus advocacy and high-level overviews).

Conference Presentations
------------------------
Convention proposals will be considered for the following types of
talks:

  -  Focused discussions related to a specific Python technology or
     programming technique.  Typical examples might include
     extension building, internationalization, programming with 
     threads, Tkinter, and XML.

  -  New product/technology demonstrations.

  -  Panel discussions.

  -  Applications and case studies that describe the use of Python
     in real-world applications. 

Convention proposals must include the following:

  -  Type of talk -- technology, new product, panel, or case-study.
  -  Title of talk or demonstration.
  -  Abstract of talk, maximum of 250 words.
  -  Speaker name.
  -  Speaker biography.
  -  Complete speaker contact information.

Submissions of novel and unusual Python applications are particularly
encouraged.  Presentations by marketing staff or with a marketing
focus will not be accepted.

Submitting Your Proposal
------------------------
All proposals must be sent to oscon2001-proposals at oreilly.com

Proposals should be sent in plain text with no attachments. Submit one
proposal per email.  The subject line of your email must follow this
format:

Last name: proposal type: proposal title

For example:

   Johnson: Tutorial: Advanced Python Programming

You will receive an automatic confirmation upon receipt of each 
proposal.

Important Dates
---------------

Tutorial and presentation proposals due:   February 1, 2001
Notification to presenters             :   March 1, 2001
Tutorial presentations due             :   May 1, 2001
Convention presentations due           :   June 1, 2001

More Information
----------------
More information about the convention can be found at:

    http://conferences.oreilly.com/oscon2001

Specific questions concerning the Python track can be sent
via e-mail to ora-python-pc at cs.uchicago.edu.

Python Track Program Committee
------------------------------
Andrew Kuchling, MEMS Exchange
Andy Robinson, ReportLab
David Ascher, ActiveState
Paul Dubois, Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory
David Beazley, University of Chicago, Chair
Fredrik Lundh, Secret Labs AB/PythonWare
Greg Stein, Technical Advisor, ActiveState
Jason Asbahr, Origin/Electronic Arts
Jeremy Hylton, Digital Creations
Tim Peters, Digital Creations
Guido van Rossum, Digital Creations







From scarblac at pino.selwerd.nl  Wed Jan 24 17:22:47 2001
From: scarblac at pino.selwerd.nl (Remco Gerlich)
Date: 24 Jan 2001 22:22:47 GMT
Subject: Conspiracy Revealed
References: <mailman.980348908.30623.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrn96ul3a.13t.scarblac@pino.selwerd.nl>

Simon Brunning <SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk> wrote in comp.lang.python:
> > From:	claird at starbase.neosoft.com [SMTP:claird at starbase.neosoft.com]
> > Incidentally, where's the PSA been relocated?
>  
> A small bunker in Area 51.

Guarded by a rabbit. No ordinary rabbit, but the most foul, cruel,
and bad-tempered rodent you ever set eyes on. Surrounded by bones.

And he's got a switchblade. And a Glock, sometimes.

-- 
Remco Gerlich


From cstrickland at surry.net  Fri Jan 12 21:47:25 2001
From: cstrickland at surry.net (Charles W. Strickland)
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 02:47:25 GMT
Subject: Running cgi-scripts on my home Apache server
References: <j92o5t4gde98rlaca47mdglnsdc7uruo3c@4ax.com> <93he3h012p4@news2.newsguy.com> <newscache$gtv17g$1c6$1@www.dzsh.de> <93n1pd0vlk@news1.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <3a5fc133.2177752@nntp.surry.net>

Has anybody tried python cgi scripts using "small http" on a windows
machine.  I got mine working in c.  Documentation says it should work
for perl - python is not mentioned.

On Fri, 12 Jan 2001 14:43:45 +0100, "Alex Martelli"
<aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote:

>"Ruediger" <ruediger.maehl at web.de> wrote in message
>news:newscache$gtv17g$1c6$1 at www.dzsh.de...
>    [snip]
>> >This is what Xitami wants, for example (I don't have an
>    [snip]
>> Obviously, you are using Xitami as web server. Looks like this is a very
>> small and effective web server
>> (http://www.imatix.com/html/xitami/index.htm).
>
>Yes, and yes.  I chose it as the simplest, runs-by-itself,
>no-maintenance webserver so I could try out CGI scripts on
>my home machine.
>
>
>> # Question:
>> Are you using CGI and/or LRWP in conjunction with Xitami?
>
>CGI. LRWP is also interesting, and, not surprisingly, well
>supported for Python in particular since Robin Dunn had a
>hand in it; see http://alldunn.com/python/ for a link to it.
>
>I haven't really done anything 'serious' with it, besides
>confirming that, as per specs, it does let you easily develop
>Python scripts that can run both under it, and under plain
>CGI; as I don't have a Xitami installation actually deployed
>on the web, but rather use mine to develop CGI scripts to
>be later deployed on other servers, I can't even really speak
>with first-hand knowledge about performance issues related
>to CGI vs LRWP vs FastCGI vs other approaches -- not enough
>real-world experiences.
>
>
>Alex
>
>
>



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Mon Jan 15 07:35:22 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 13:35:22 +0100
Subject: Web devel with python. Whats the best route?
References: <mailman.978910629.6814.python-list@python.org> <93cqvi0191h@news1.newsguy.com> <kuofxhi4d2.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi> <93om7l$p6s$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <kusnmmfs6a.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi> <93t6bv$pj$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <kud7dpg247.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>
Message-ID: <93uqu302sdf@news1.newsguy.com>

"Erno Kuusela" <erno-news at erno.iki.fi> wrote in message
news:kud7dpg247.fsf at lasipalatsi.fi...
    [snip]
> that's what i said, they are a part of the information :). http
> tries to be stateless in principle (cookies aren't part of the http
> spec i think).

Wrong, see RFC 2109, "HTTP State Management Mechanism".  That is
where cookies are specified in detail.


> the content behind the session-unique url is perfectly cacheable by
> intermediate proxies, unlike for cookies.

See session "4.2.3 Controlling Caching" of rfc2109; cookies give
you very fine-grained control of what is intended to get cached
where (actually, the Cache-control header does that, but, it's
designed to work with HTTP state management, i.e., cookies).


> a large percentage of the people i know are using either junkbuster or
> a browser (such as mozilla and konqueror) that can enable/disable
> cookies on a per-site basis.

Bully for them.  If they decide that they don't want client-side
state to be stored on their machine, I guess that makes sense for
them; so, use the standard-specified way to offer up state for
client-side storage (i.e., cookies) and let the users decide.


Alex





From moshez at zadka.site.co.il  Fri Jan  5 20:44:09 2001
From: moshez at zadka.site.co.il (Moshe Zadka)
Date: Sat,  6 Jan 2001 03:44:09 +0200 (IST)
Subject: Python vs. PHP (& Java?)
In-Reply-To: <LOBBJMHOIFOLFIPFANHJAEJFCHAA.zope@TheWebsons.com>
References: <LOBBJMHOIFOLFIPFANHJAEJFCHAA.zope@TheWebsons.com>
Message-ID: <20010106014409.56D25A84F@darjeeling.zadka.site.co.il>

On Thu, 4 Jan 2001, "Ben Ocean" <zope at TheWebsons.com> wrote:

> PHP is a hacker's language.

I'm not sure how you define a hacker. I like to consider myself a hacker,
or at least an aspiring hacker. And PHP is *definitely* not my language.
Or are you saying that PHP is a quick hack? That's something different,
but I'm not sure I'd agree with -- although I agree that less design
seems to poured into PHP then Python.

> Why else would GNU choose Python to write
> Mailman

I'm not sure it was GNU who chose mailman as much as Barry who was
kind enough to assign the FSF the mailman copyrights. Mind you,
I think that Mailman is a wonderful program, and a testimony
to the fact that Python can be used to program large applications.

> It's clean code: the opposite of a hacker's language.

ESR says that Python is a good language to start hacking with. This
is one of the few subjects on which we agree.

> I may still have to learn Java because it's robust 

I'm not sure I agree with this claim: in my experience, Python is just
as robust as Java. Or are you using a definition of robust other then
"crashes very little".

-- 
Moshe Zadka <sig at zadka.site.co.il>
This is a signature anti-virus. 
Please stop the spread of signature viruses!



From news at a-nugget.de  Wed Jan 17 12:48:06 2001
From: news at a-nugget.de (Guido Goldstein)
Date: 17 Jan 2001 18:48:06 +0100
Subject: gettings mounted file systems [newbie]
References: <A69BC9CA4B39D411BF2200105A45B45B075B8C44@dhexchange.discoveryhealth.co.za> <mailman.979718839.23204.python-list@python.org> <9444og$h7s$1@sunnews.cern.ch>
Message-ID: <lt8zoaoysp.fsf@nathan.gold.siebend.net>

Hi!

On 17 Jan 2001 12:55:44 GMT
  garabik at center.fmph.uniba.sk.spam (Radovan Garabik) wrote:
> Moshe Zadka <moshez at zadka.site.co.il> wrote:
[...]
>  : Why not parse /etc/mtab?
> 
> maybe because it is linuxism?
> it does not exist in BSD, neither in solaris, hpux, etc...
> basically, you have no easy portable way, except of
> walking through all possible mount points and checking
> os.path.ismount()

Question 1:
What do you mean with: "... possible mount points..."?

Question 2:
Am I right when I say: mount w/o any options prints all mounted
devices to stdout?
So one can parse this output and it would be -- in my opinion -- easy
to write parsers for this output for every OS the application is
running on (thanks to os.uname()).

Sorry if I missed something in the original posting, but I can't see
it here yet.

HAND
  Guido
-- 
The Information Revolution will be fought on the command line.


From mfletch at tpresence.com  Mon Jan 29 10:01:37 2001
From: mfletch at tpresence.com (Mike Fletcher)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 10:01:37 -0500
Subject: importing glut
Message-ID: <CC59868A0A76D311B1F50090277B321C1E1492@VRTMAIL>

You _shouldn't_ see a file named glut.py or Glut.py or even GLUT.py.  You
should see a directory named GLUT.  (I'm assuming you're using PyOpenGL
1.5.6 here).  To import GLUT:

from OpenGL import GLUT # note GLUT, not Glut

or, more commonly:

from OpenGL.GLUT import *

See:
	http://pyopengl.sourceforge.net/documentation/context/index.html

For a basic "get started with OpenGL contexts" document that includes a GLUT
example.

HTH,
MIke

-----Original Message-----
From: ABDENOUR HADID [mailto:hadidab at yahoo.fr]
Sent: Monday, January 29, 2001 4:16 AM
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: importing glut


hello
I am just beginner in programing with python. I
installed python and pyopengl on win98platform. 
when I tried to import glut.py i receive the error 
message :"importing the GLUT Library failed. the
GLUT32.DLL file should be on your path...."

I see the file Glut.py in the directory
c://python20//OpenGl//

I tried to import :OpenGl.Glut  but same problem.
i added the c://python20//OpenGl// to Path..always
same problem...

so, can you help me..

thanks



___________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!? -- Pour dialoguer en direct avec vos amis, 
Yahoo! Messenger : http://fr.messenger.yahoo.com

-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list



From sandj.williams at gte.net  Tue Jan  9 14:19:24 2001
From: sandj.williams at gte.net (Steve Williams)
Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2001 19:19:24 GMT
Subject: Coding Efficiency
Message-ID: <3A5B6586.50B51F68@gte.net>

I saw this in an otherwise worthless thread on Slashdot about OOP:

   Another reason ... (Score:5, Informative)
           by taniwha on Tuesday January 09, @12:40PM EST (#54)
           (User #70410 Info) http://www.taniwha.com/nospam.jpg
           (for the record I first wrote smalltalk code in the 70's, I
regularly code in C++ ...)

           I'm a sometimes chip designer, sometimes programmer ... a
while back while
           working on an unnamed CPU project I did some low level
performance analysis on
           a number of well known programs (maybe even the browser
you're using now)
           basicly we were taking very long instruction/data traces and
then modelling them
           against various potential CPU pipeline/tlb/cache
architectures - we were looking for
           things that would help guide us to a better architecture for
our CPU.

           I found that quite early on I could figure out which language
something was coded
           in from the cooked numbers pretty easily - OO (ie C++) coded
stuff always had a
           really sucky CPI (clocks per instruction - a measure of
architectural efficiency that
           includes pipe breaks, stalls and cache misses) - I spent some
time looking at this
           (since it seemed that C++ code would probably become more
common in our CPU's
           lifetime) - basicly C++ code sucked because it took more
icache hits (because the
           coding style encourages lots of subroutine calls which tend
to spread over the
           cache more filling the I$ quickly) and it took more pipe
breaks (also due to the
           subrotine calls and returns - it turned out that some code
generators did stuff that
           broke CPU's return stack caches causing many more
mispredicts) and finally virtual
           method dispatches (basicly load a pointer, save the pc on the
stack and jump to the
           new pointer) tended to cause double pipe stalls that couldn't
be predicted well at all
           even though these weren't done much they were a real killer
(if you've one a bit of
           modern CPU architecture you learn that with long pipes you
live or die on your
           branch predictor's hit rate - these were very bad news)

           In short C++ and more genrally OO result in code and coding
styles that tend to
           make code that makes modern CPU's run less efficiently.

           Anyway - you often hear about 'efficiency of programmers' etc
etc for OO - I
           thought I'd add a data point from the other end of the
spectrum.
           [



From haaserd at yahoo.com  Tue Jan 30 16:01:41 2001
From: haaserd at yahoo.com (haaserd)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 14:01:41 -0700
Subject: localtime(clock()) yields 12/31/69 under Wme
Message-ID: <3A772BB5.77A3078C@yahoo.com>

Hi,
This is my first attempt at using the time module.  I get:

>>>
>>> import time
>>> time.clock()
14628.151040915873
>>> time.localtime(time.clock())
(1969, 12, 31, 21, 3, 57, 2, 365, 0)
>>>

My PC shows local time for all other functions.  I am
running Python 2.0 under Windows ME.  Is there some setup
function I have missed doing?

TIA,

Roger Haase



From sholden at holdenweb.com  Fri Jan 19 05:34:03 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 05:34:03 -0500
Subject: How to run script from interpreter?
References: <mailman.979855413.16209.python-list@python.org> <t6f37pmhbtd94@corp.supernews.com> <mailman.979898969.13587.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <lOU96.10027$LZ5.84017@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com>

"Dan Rolander" <dan.rolander at marriott.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.979898969.13587.python-list at python.org...
> This doesn't work for me. I know how to import and how to use the if
> __name__ trick, but how can I execute a script from the interactive Python
> interpreter? That is, can I load a script and have it run from inside the
> interpreter? (I'm sure this is easy I'm just not seeing it.)
>
> Dan

Well, if you've written your program as a .py file, the usual technique is
to enter an import statement to the interactive interpreter. The code is
executed as the import proceeds. The __name__ == _"__main__" trick is
usually used to run test code in a module intended primarily for import by
other code rather than for execution as a program.

Of course, this only works once, because further imports will assume they
can use teh already-imported module. To get subsequent modifications of the
script to work you have to use reload(mdulename), which will force
execution.

It's a slight pain that the first import is different from all the others,
but never mind.

regards
 Steve




From max at alcyone.com  Sun Jan 28 17:00:54 2001
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 14:00:54 -0800
Subject: Hack request: rational numbers
References: <951h34$tch$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, <Pine.LNX.4.21.0101251759070.28148-100000@kev.ioc.ee> <mailman.980702855.389.python-list@python.org> <2W%c6.128157$ge4.46108705@news2.rdc2.tx.home.com>
Message-ID: <3A749696.2BD57BA9@alcyone.com>

Rainer Deyke wrote:

> Why not add native quaternion support to Python?  Quaternions are
> complex
> numbers where the imaginary part is a vector in three dimensions,
> defined in
> terms of unit vectors i, j, and k.

Ah, but why?  :-)  Besides, the use of 1, i, j, k for quaternion units
is inconsistent with using 1, j (not 1, i) for complex units.

Why not just go all the way and support full geometric algebras of
arbitrary dimensionality?

The answer is, of course, because programmers don't generally need such
functionality built into the language.

(There is a geometric algebra module for Python, by the way.)

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, US / 37 20 N 121 53 W / ICQ16063900 / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ In our family we don't divorce our men -- we bury them.
\__/ Ruth Gordon
    Alcyone Systems / http://www.alcyone.com/
 Alcyone Systems, San Jose, California.


From pj at sgi.com  Fri Jan 12 23:15:10 2001
From: pj at sgi.com (Paul Jackson)
Date: 13 Jan 2001 04:15:10 GMT
Subject: Speed of Python vs. Perl
References: <mailman.979266192.1957.python-list@python.org> <Owy76.5648$Qb7.787357@newsb.telia.net> <93o3td$oee3u$1@fido.engr.sgi.com>
Message-ID: <93okoe$np5ik$1@fido.engr.sgi.com>

I (pj) wrote:
|> So these two changes account for almost half the Perl win
|> in startup time, at least on my current system.

That was with Python 1.5.2 ("hello world" time improved from
180 to 130 msec with these two changes).

With BeOpen-Python-2.0, these two changes make less of a
difference, improving the "hello world" time from 210 msec to
190 msec, approximately, on my Irix system.


So these two changes make less difference to Python 2.0.

The biggest apparent remaining user-level cpu time sinks seem
to be in:

   * fixstate(), in Parser/acceler.c

   * the threaded malloc calls, some of which originate in fixstate()

   * lookdict_string, Objects/dictobject.c


===

Here's a patch for these two changes, this time for Python 2.0:

===


--- compile.c.orig	Mon Oct 16 14:49:29 2000
+++ compile.c	Fri Jan 12 19:54:38 2001
@@ -164,6 +164,26 @@
 #define NAME_CHARS \
 	"0123456789ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ_abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz"
 
+/* all_name_chars(s): true iff all chars in s are valid NAME_CHARS */
+
+static int
+all_name_chars(char *s)
+{
+	static char ok_name_char[256];
+	static char *name_chars = NAME_CHARS;
+
+	if (ok_name_char[*name_chars] == 0) {
+		char *p;
+		for (p = name_chars; *p; p++)
+			ok_name_char[*p] = 1;
+	}
+	while (*s) {
+		if (ok_name_char[*s++] == 0)
+			return 0;
+	}
+	return 1;
+}
+
 PyCodeObject *
 PyCode_New(int argcount, int nlocals, int stacksize, int flags,
 	   PyObject *code, PyObject *consts, PyObject *names,
@@ -218,8 +238,7 @@
 		if (!PyString_Check(v))
 			continue;
 		p = PyString_AsString(v);
-		if (strspn(p, NAME_CHARS)
-		    != (size_t)PyString_Size(v))
+		if(!all_name_chars(p))
 			continue;
 		PyString_InternInPlace(&PyTuple_GET_ITEM(consts, i));
 	}


--- marshal.c.orig	Mon Oct 16 14:49:29 2000
+++ marshal.c	Fri Jan 12 19:55:08 2001
@@ -8,6 +8,8 @@
 #include "longintrepr.h"
 #include "compile.h"
 #include "marshal.h"
+#include <sys/types.h>
+#include <sys/stat.h>
 
 /* High water mark to determine when the marshalled object is dangerously deep
  * and risks coring the interpreter.  When the object stack gets this deep,
@@ -608,13 +610,39 @@
 	return r_long(&rf);
 }
 
+
+static off_t
+getfilesize(FILE *fp)
+{
+	struct stat st;
+	if (fstat(fileno(fp), &st) != 0)
+		return -1;
+	else
+		return st.st_size;
+}
+
 PyObject *
 PyMarshal_ReadObjectFromFile(FILE *fp)
 {
 	RFILE rf;
+	off_t filesize;
 	if (PyErr_Occurred()) {
 		fprintf(stderr, "XXX rd_object called with exception set\n");
 		return NULL;
+	}
+#	define FILEBUFSIZE 65536
+	filesize = getfilesize(fp);
+	if (filesize > 0 && filesize < FILEBUFSIZE) {
+		char *buf;
+		buf = malloc(filesize);
+		if (buf > 0) {
+			PyObject *pop;
+			size_t rsz;
+			rsz = fread(buf, 1, filesize, fp);
+			pop = PyMarshal_ReadObjectFromString(buf, rsz);
+			free(buf);
+			return pop;
+		}
 	}
 	rf.fp = fp;
 	return r_object(&rf);
-- 
                          I won't rest till it's the best ...
                          Manager, Linux System Software
                          Paul Jackson <pj at sgi.com> 1.650.933.1373


From mmonacelli at nexpress.com  Tue Jan  9 17:06:07 2001
From: mmonacelli at nexpress.com (Matthew Monacelli)
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 17:06:07 -0500
Subject: installer - external binary files
Message-ID: <93g1v9$t2b$1@news.kodak.com>

I am having trouble including an icon file for use with my python program.
I am aware of the icon= option, but I am using it also for the taskbar icon.
I need the file to be extracted fromthe exe file so the wxIcon function has
access to it.  Is there a way to force file extraction from the exe archive?
Has anyone else tried this sort of thing?  Any help is appreciated, thanks.

Matt




From ericr at us.english.uga.edu  Mon Jan 22 19:53:30 2001
From: ericr at us.english.uga.edu (Eric Rochester)
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 19:53:30 -0500
Subject: Replacing control characters.
In-Reply-To: <94ifec$ggt$1@nnrp1.deja.com>; from johnvert@my-deja.com on Mon, Jan 22, 2001 at 11:24:07PM +0000
References: <94ifec$ggt$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <20010122195330.A3462@us.english.uga.edu>

There's already a script that does exactly this included with the standard
distribution. It's located at Tools/Scripts/crlf.py .

No point reinventing the wheel,
Eric

On Mon, Jan 22, 2001 at 11:24:07PM +0000, johnvert at my-deja.com wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I want to replace actual Ctrl keys that are in files.  For example, I
> saved in Netscape (Linux) an HTML file and when I open it in a text
> editor there are a bunch of ^M characters around (probably because the
> file was processed on Windows, which uses a different line ending for
> textfiles--right?).  I want to remove all of these characters, but since
> it's not an actual caret (^) and a letter M, but the *Ctrl* character
> C-M I don't know how to refer to them in a regexp.  How can I?  Also,
> what would be the most efficient way to do this in Python (e.g. use
> regexp functions to maybe module string will do?)
> 
> Thanks,
>   -- John
> 
> 
> Sent via Deja.com
> http://www.deja.com/
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

-- 
Eric Rochester
English Department
The University of Georgia
Athens, Georgia 30602

----

"I have a cunning plan!"
		--Baldric




From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Thu Jan  4 07:40:23 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 13:40:23 +0100
Subject: Stand-Alone Python Application
References: <BGEGJFOHFLNFHACAJJMLEECPCPAA.rcalco@cortechs.com> <mailman.978559266.16974.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <931r1e02nfc@news2.newsguy.com>

"Serdar Soydemir" <serdars at ixir.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.978559266.16974.python-list at python.org...
> Hello,
>
> Is there a way to compile python scripts and make a standalone
application?
> As PerlEx does for Perl scripts? Or Python must always be installed before
> running any script, as VB programs depends VB Runtime files?

Gordon McMillan's "installer", at http://www.mcmillan-inc.com/install1.html,
gives one approach at building a 'standalone application'; the page also
gives
links to other such approaches, such as the classic 'freeze'.


Alex





From Kimmo.Paakkonen at helsinki.fi  Tue Jan 30 09:32:55 2001
From: Kimmo.Paakkonen at helsinki.fi (Kimmo =?iso-8859-1?Q?P=E4=E4kk=F6nen?=)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 16:32:55 +0200
Subject: MMTK and Scientific python for NT 4.0
Message-ID: <3A76D096.B1747887@helsinki.fi>

  Hi,
  is there a precompiled version of MMTK and Scientific Python for
Windows NT 4.0 somewhere? I found older binaries from site
http://starship.python.net/crew/kernr/binaries/Binaries.html
but those were linked against Python 1.5, and I'm using Python 2.0. I
also noticed that in that page the versions of the MMTK and Scientific
Python are older than in their FTP sites (those new versions seem to
support threading, and I have 2 processor on my NT machine :).

  If there are no such binaries, are there some instructions how to
compile them for NT? I have the free Borland 5.5 compiler, and I have
made couple of extensions with it (with the very nice help from
http://www.cyberus.ca/~g_will/pyExtenDL.shtml
), but building MMTK extensions seems confusing, as I don't have
experience of compiling bigger projects. Any help appreciated!!

                        Kimmo P??kk?nen
                        Kimmo.Paakkonen at helsinki.fi




From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Wed Jan  3 05:30:42 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2001 11:30:42 +0100
Subject: win32com, COM, MediaPlayer
References: <3A52EED5.F5F40D62@ira.uka.de>
Message-ID: <92uv2d02ga7@news2.newsguy.com>

"Markus von Ehr" <vonehr at ira.uka.de> wrote in message
news:3A52EED5.F5F40D62 at ira.uka.de...
    [snip]
> Does anybody know why the Player doesn't appear and why the Play
> function doesn't work? (I tried w.Play=1 but that doesn't work neither)

MediaPlayer's "Open" works asynchronously -- that may be why explicit
calls to "Play" interact badly with it.  Setting the 'FileName' property,
then calling the 'Play' methods, might work better.

If you do want to work asynchronously, I think you'll have to check
(by poll, or by events) on the various 'states' involved (I'm not
sure whether OpenState, PlayState, or ReadyState governs here; alas,
MediaPlayer appears to be rather underdocumented, and I can't easily
experiment here since IsSoundCardEnabled tells me '0'...:-).

Given asynchronous operation, anyway, you surely don't want to let
your process terminate (by the controlling script "falling off the
end", as in your code) until the operations you desire are also done
(I _think_, but I'm not sure, that this also holds for the Play
verb).  Again, receiving events, or periodically polling the state
bits that interest you, are two alternatives.

Another minor issue with your code:

> w.AutoStart=1
> w.Open("c:\Programme\Python\ex1.wav")

The blackslashes have special meaning in a string; either double
them, or make this a "rawstring" by pasting an r (lowercase R)
just before the opening quote.


Alex





From m.faassen at vet.uu.nl  Tue Jan  9 08:47:51 2001
From: m.faassen at vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen)
Date: 9 Jan 2001 13:47:51 GMT
Subject: Web devel with python. Whats the best route?
References: <mailman.978910629.6814.python-list@python.org> <93cqvi0191h@news1.newsguy.com> <mailman.978985688.26505.python-list@python.org> <93dfft077p@news1.newsguy.com> <mailman.979000510.4052.python-list@python.org> <slrn95ltl8.45d.scarblac@pino.selwerd.nl>
Message-ID: <93f4q7$ji4$1@newshost.accu.uu.nl>

Remco Gerlich <scarblac at pino.selwerd.nl> wrote:
[knip]
> Precies. Dit is de Python groep, horen we niet allemaal Nederlands
> te praten?

Natuurlijk horen we dat. Nederlands is de natuurlijke taal die het
best bij Python past, en je ziet Tim Peters de hele tijd verklaringen
voor Python geven omdat Guido Nederlands is, en zo. Ik heb wat
belangrijke sleutelwoorden in dit bericht gezet zodat zelfs Amerikanen
het idee hebben dat ik het ergens over heb. Dus, voorwaards met dat
Nederlands!

Groeten,

Martijn
-- 
History of the 20th Century: WW1, WW2, WW3?
No, WWW -- Could we be going in the right direction?


From MarkH at ActiveState.com  Fri Jan 26 17:49:17 2001
From: MarkH at ActiveState.com (Mark Hammond)
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 22:49:17 GMT
Subject: win32all's win32net module and Win98
References: <uelxqrsxg.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com>
Message-ID: <94sut9$jpg$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

In article <uelxqrsxg.fsf at ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com>,
  David Bolen <db3l at fitlinxx.com> wrote:

> Does anyone know if there's a problem using this module under Win98

Yes - it does not work.  win32wnet is used for functions that work on
both platforms.

Mark.


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http://www.deja.com/


From claird at starbase.neosoft.com  Wed Jan  3 09:24:25 2001
From: claird at starbase.neosoft.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: 3 Jan 2001 08:24:25 -0600
Subject: Q: JPython, NumPy, and PIL?
References: <t54h8osbuhc630@corp.supernews.com> <mailman.978473703.23145.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <84AC8522E6359297.E0FE82E9DF9A7108.4E1441EECCC6BE40@lp.airnews.net>

In article <mailman.978473703.23145.python-list at python.org>,
D-Man  <dsh8290 at rit.edu> wrote:
>
>Sure, it's a python module.  But you will need to have the C parts of
>it compiled and reachable on the system you will run it on.  It may be
>more complicated having the Java + Python + C interaction, so you
>might run into other problems and decide it's not worth it to try.
			.
			.
			.
>> Can I use the NumPy or PIL libraries from JPython?
			.
			.
			.
I'm not sure how to read this.  Has something
changed so that "a python module" is somehow
inherently available to both of CPython and
Jython simultaneously?  There was a time when
that was not automatic.

In particular, I generally consider smushing
C-coded modules in with Java stuff (that is,
using JNI) a non-trivial task.  My answer would
be, "No, you can't use PIL from Jython without
substantial work."

Pure-Python modules are, of course, mostly fine.
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at NeoSoft.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://starbase.neosoft.com/~claird/home.html


From xyzmats at laplaza.org  Sat Jan 13 17:51:05 2001
From: xyzmats at laplaza.org (Mats Wichmann)
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 22:51:05 GMT
Subject: IDLE and from module import foo
Message-ID: <3a60d820.23710243@news.laplaza.org>

Seems like in IDLE, if you do "from module import x, y, z" you can't
reload those.... having run across it in the most painful place
possible,  of course (in class).   Just tried it out side-by-side: if
you edit the file and reload (per the Python Reference this needs to
be done by repeating the import statement since there's no module name
to give to reload()...) it doesn't pick up the new versions. In the
"command-line" version, it does.  (Windows NT/2000 platforms, in this
case). The IDLE behavior seems shared by Pythonwin, which I just tried
(don't use it much at the moment).

Anybody have any advice or suggestions?



From ray_drew at yahoo.co.uk  Thu Jan 11 08:39:45 2001
From: ray_drew at yahoo.co.uk (Ray Drew)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 13:39:45 GMT
Subject: mxTools (was Re: why no "do : until"?)
References: <mailman.979217892.1967.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3a5db74c.6137155@reading.news.pipex.net>

On Thu, 11 Jan 2001 12:55:07 -0000, Simon Brunning
<SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk> wrote:

> And why 'mx', anyway? I've
>always wanted to know that...)

marc's e(x)tensions?

Ray Drew
CIA UK



From patrickdlogan at home.com  Sun Jan  7 17:27:06 2001
From: patrickdlogan at home.com (Patrick Logan)
Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2001 22:27:06 GMT
Subject: Also: Internet C++
References: <93a535$n76$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <_2666.240898$U46.7569402@news1.sttls1.wa.home.com>

<aotto2 at my-deja.com> wrote in message news:93a535$n76$1 at nnrp1.deja.com...
>
>   after Mirosoft create .NET , it's time to answer
>
>   have a look to:
>
>     http://home.t-online.de/home/aotto/mqcon_E.html
>
>   to read more about it

Another .net competitor could be based on Internet C++.

--
Patrick Logan
mailto:patrickdlogan at home.com





From patrickdlogan at home.com  Mon Jan  8 10:34:09 2001
From: patrickdlogan at home.com (Patrick Logan)
Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2001 15:34:09 GMT
Subject: CO-process
References: <93a535$n76$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <_2666.240898$U46.7569402@news1.sttls1.wa.home.com> <4i666.240905$U46.7570799@news1.sttls1.wa.home.com> <93bp9f$v1h$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <R5l66.242504$U46.7686033@news1.sttls1.wa.home.com>

<aotto2 at my-deja.com> wrote in message news:93bp9f$v1h$1 at nnrp1.deja.com...
>
> > heavyweight for many of the things you'd want to use .net for.
>
>   1) the solution for MqSeries has only 20 KB wich isn't heavyweight.

I was thinking more of IPC time than memory use.

>   2) One CO-Process is used to manage one "task" ( DB, Communication
>      GUI-Interface, Appl-Server, ...) there is no need to write
>      one task in more than one language, the benefit is that you
>      can choose the right language for the task, and the clear
>      and easy interface between the tasks

That was my impression. As I wrote before, this is fine for what it
is, but does not match up feature-by-feature for what .net is offering
(on paper, anyway).

--
Patrick Logan
mailto:patrickdlogan at home.com





From tim.one at home.com  Thu Jan 25 05:38:36 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 05:38:36 -0500
Subject: SourceForge problems
In-Reply-To: <slrn96v77e.i9.amk@mira.erols.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCGECBILAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Tim, yesterday]
> According to http://sourceforge.net/ today,
>    Hosted Projects:   14,366
>    Registered Users: 110,619

[A.M. Kuchling, today]
> Oof!  When I was fiddling with patches tonight, the registered users
> number was exactly 111,000.  400 new users a day isn't too shabby...

Worse (better? depends on your POV ...), the number of registered projects
has bumped to 14,531.  Since each new project takes some manual work on
their end, I bet they're backlogged bigtime.  Someone should suggest that
they only accept new Python projects.

no-point-fighting-the-inevitable<wink>-ly y'rs  - tim




From redhouse at my-deja.com  Mon Jan 22 18:14:18 2001
From: redhouse at my-deja.com (redhouse at my-deja.com)
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 23:14:18 GMT
Subject: Sockets and marshalling question
Message-ID: <94ies2$fv5$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

Hi-

  I'm trying to uses marshalling an sockets and my server is hanging.
Does anybody out there have an example of how to do this?

  The marshal.load() method is hanging. I have tested the same code with
fixed length strings, and it works. I have tested marshalling the
objects with dumps() and loads() and that works, too.

  So my question is if it is OK to use marshalling to avoid counting the
message bytes,sending the counter, etc.

Thanks-
  Carter

  Here's my server code:

class My_handler(SocketServer.StreamRequestHandler):
    def handle(self):
        """\
        Handler method
        Currently supports only one user at a time.
        """
        while 1:
            my_string=marshal.load(self.rfile)

class My_server:
    def __init__(self,listener_port):
        # Create an instance of our server class
        server=SocketServer.TCPServer( ('', listener_port), My_handler)

        # Enter an infinite loop, waiting for requests and then
servicing them.
        server.serve_forever()


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http://www.deja.com/


From tim.one at home.com  Tue Jan  9 13:52:50 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 13:52:50 -0500
Subject: escape sequences and string comparisons
In-Reply-To: <93elo7$aoh$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCEEJJIHAA.tim.one@home.com>

All the *interesting* questions here were already answered by /F, so I'll be
a drudge:

[jkndeja at my-deja.com]
> My copy of K & R C (2nd Ed, Sec A2.5.2) says 'if the character
> following the \ is not one of those specified, the behaviour is
> undefined'
>
> My copy of 'The C Reference Manual' (Harbison and Steele), says
> (paraphrased) '... the behaviour is undefined, though traditionally
> the effect is simply that the backslash is ignored'.

While the latest C std (C99) says

    ...
    If any other character follows a backslash, the result is not
    a token and a diagnostic is required.  See ??future language
    directions?? (6.11.1).

which latter says

    6.11.1 Character escape sequences
    Lowercase letters as escape sequences are reserved for future
    standardization.  Other characters may be used in extensions.

Right or wrong, at least Guido is Unchangeable <wink>.

BTW, there's another reason (besides easing debugging) Python leaves the
backslashes in:  at the start, r-strings didn't exist, and Emacs-style
regexp syntax was popular.  The latter often requires escaping non-letters,
and e.g.

    "\(.*\)"

is less a pain to type than

    "\\(.*\\)"

just-another-regexp-memory-ly y'rs  - tim




From rdelon at my-deja.com  Sat Jan 13 04:52:27 2001
From: rdelon at my-deja.com (Remi Delon)
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 09:52:27 GMT
Subject: Where to store images for a Zope e-commerce Website
Message-ID: <93p8gr$6ni$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

Hi,

I'm developing an e-commerce website in Zope. This website will handle
tens of thousands of items. I'm using a MySql database to store all
alphanumeric data about the items.
I'm wondering what's the best place to store the images for those items.
I see 3 options:

- Either in a Zope folder (in this case, it's easy to serve those
images from Zope. But I'm concern that ZODB might have problems to
handle so many images in a Folder. Also, I'm limited with operations I
can do on those images (how do I Delete ? Add ? Update ? Create
thumbnails ?)

- Either in the local filesystem. (Then it's easy to perform operations
on those images, but less easy to serve them with Zope)

- Either in the database itself, but I don't know if the connection
between MySql and Zope works well for raw data.

Anybody has any experience with this ?

Thanks.

R?mi.


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Jan  5 11:23:46 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 17:23:46 +0100
Subject: A single, general looping construct? (was: why no "do : until"?)
References: <92jj3j$ff7$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <92m9pm$d19$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <B3z36.122$9s1.18804@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com> <3A4EC5B1.8912E571@engcorp.com> <x8G36.156$9s1.31209@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com> <92qc21$538$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <0O7zTzsxerl5-pn2-SISYKtwXTOmR@bill> <931lji02ik1@news2.newsguy.com> <0O7zTzsxerl5-pn2-DVVVoFhFP1jH@bill>
Message-ID: <934sg602sfh@news2.newsguy.com>

"William Sonna" <wlsonna at attglobal.net> wrote in message
news:0O7zTzsxerl5-pn2-DVVVoFhFP1jH at bill...
> On Thu, 4 Jan 2001 11:07:39, "Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
> > "William Sonna" <wlsonna at attglobal.net> wrote in message
> > news:0O7zTzsxerl5-pn2-SISYKtwXTOmR at bill...
> >     [snip]
> > > Object Rexx's implementation of the generalized do is the best I've
> > > seen (in a real language, that is).  Works like this:
> >
> > Snipping: 5 different forms that _still_ don't cover the
Knuth-identified
> > general case of "N-and-1/2-times" loops.  We clearly have a very
> > different idea of what the word "best" means.
>
> My definition is easy, simple and obvious.  And Object Rexx's are
> simple, easy and obvious.  Python's while is simple, easy and obvious.
> Python's repeat until is simple, easy, but NOT OBVIOUS.

Five different languages constructs for a single task is not
'simple' -- it is 'multiple'.

> I find the N and 1/2 times to be totally loopy (pun intended).  Don't
> you?

No.  Knuth's article explaining it came out in 1974, and I started
programming right after that -- I also had the luck of a 'mentor'
who pointed me to suitable study materials, including that article
as soon as I was ready for it.  With a quarter century of familiarity
with the concept, of course I find it most natural.

Not being the kind of genius Knuth is, I guess I could not have come
up with this syntesis myself, but then, fortunately, I don't have
to: "seeing farther by standing upon the shoulders of giants", and
all that, you know.


> > Since when is it Pythonic to have many equivalent ways to express
> > one concept?
>
> Zero or more  of  something is not mathematically or logically the
> same as one or more.

But you capture both, and more besides, with "N or more for some N",
a more general concept.  That's a lot of what mathematics and logics
are about -- finding suitable abstractions, that will simplify your
mental toil through "just the right generalizations".


> So expressing "one or more" as "one plus zero or more" smacks of using
> "x^0" to express "one".

While expressing it as "N or more [for N=1]" is Pythonic (just one
concept, judiciously generalized, rather than a congeries of ad-hoc
constructs).

> You don't have to take my word for it......Go ask the re module if it
> knows the difference.

The re module's "sublanguage" is, of course, a completely
different one -- the (general case) {m,n} construct and the
(special cases) * and + constructs coexist, for example.  I
suspect historical reasons play a big part here.

> It does (thank GOD).  Otherwise [a,b,c]+ would have to be written as
> [a,b,c][a,b,c]+, which is generally accepted as bad style.

I'm not sure what role you think the repeated comma plays in
the '[a,b,c]' part (I would normally express it '[,abc]' if
I wanted to match either a comma or one of the first three
lowercase letters), but, anyway, the general form for "N or
more repetitions" of it would be "[,abc]{N,}".  Now, whether
N stands for 0 or 1 (or anything else), the style is equally
good.  I guess design considerations for a special-purpose
"little language" are different, particularly considering the
practical opportunity of just adopting a powerful (if obscure
and redundant) sublanguage that's already well-known.

> So what's the deal with Python?

It's a general-purpose programming language, with no need for
any special compatibility with existing ones.  Having a general
construct, introducing equivalent ones for several special
cases would be unPythonic.  (You'll hear no Pythonista claim
the re sublanguage is highly Pythonic, I'm sure -- particularly
since it's basically identical to the Perl sublanguage that
serves the same purpose:-).


> > > Fortran had even simpler control structures than Python, and was a
    [snip]
> > structures is "simpler than Python's"?!  Simple GOTO, assigned
> > GOTO, computed GOTO, logical IF, arithmetic IF, the DO statement...
    [snip]
> True, they were not easy to use.
>
> But at their core they were EXTREMELY simple concepts:  GOTO, IF, and
> DO.

The point is: they were NOT simple -- they were multiple.  There
was not 'one' way to GO TO, for example -- there were at least 4
(counting the arithmetic-if, which is a triple of GO TO's, with a
different keyword just to add more confusion).

> The variations you describe are grafted workarounds for the inherent
> limitations of a limited set of control structures.  Not unlike the
> loop construct we are discussing.

I agree on the 'not unlike': when you want five different
constructs to use for looping (and still don't cover the
simple generality of Knuth's single construct), there IS
a strong similarity to Fortran's use of 4+ ways to jump
around.  You're trying to compensate for lack of generality
by adopting multiplicity instead.

> I am of the opinion that control structures should state what they
> mean in the simplest possible terms.  One of the reasons I always
> hated Fortran.

Multiplicity becomes a real problem when you need to port or
otherwise maintain programs written by somebody so benighted
as to actually USE it -- if you have any sense, for your own
programs you'll settle on as small a subset as you can get
away with ("do the simplest thing that can possibly work").

E.g., "IF(X.ge.0)THEN//GOTO 100//ENDIF" even if you could say
that as "IF(X)110,100,100//110 CONTINUE", because the IF/THEN
construct is most general (the construct/statement distinction
is another finery that I _don't_ miss from Fortran...!-).

Of course, it's better NOT to have the needless multiplicity
of equivalent constructs in the language in the first place.


> [unprovoked anti-Perl advocacy snipped - PLEASE- I'm not here to
> troll]

I'm not impugning your purposes -- they may be as clean as
a mountain spring.  But, your ideas on language design
(multiplicity of equivalent expressions as desirable) _are_
more Perl-like than Python-like; thus, the 'unprovoked'
label is unwarranted.  You even choose as a presumably-good
example the re-sublanguage that Python took from Perl...!-)


> while 1:
>     yadda
>     yadda
>     if "whatever you think (should|should not) happen":
>         break
>
> Is clumsy and inconsistent compared to:
>
>     until "whatever you think (should|should not) happen":
>           yadda
>           yadda

It's not: it's just slightly-suboptimal syntax sugar
for the general structured loop-form.

> As for generalized while.......What would it really add?

Slightly better syntax sugar:

    loop:
        yadda
        yadda
    while "whatever"

for the test-at-end special case, with

    loop:
    while "whatever":
        yadda
        yadda

for the test-at-start more common case (some might
prefer to merge the first two lines as one here,
    loop while whatever:
but that's a different issue and I'm sticking to
the general form right now rather than debating
what variations it might include),

    loop:
        yadda
    while "whatever":
        more yaddas

for the general N-and-1/2 case.  The same two keywords
appear in every loop, with identical meaning: 'loop'
always denotes start-of-loop, 'while' always contains
the termination test -- and, most important, they're
indented at the same level (while the 'yadda's they
control are one indent to the rightwards), just like
other keyword pairs such as try/finally, if/else, &c.

Admitting a condition on the 'loop' line would be
a generalization (not really needed), as would having
more than one 'while' clause (like you can have
more than one 'elif' in an if/elif statement --
it's quite convenient to avoid needless nesting).

Python's syntax today is basically the fully
generalized form of this, with 'loop' always
carrying a condition (even if an always-on one,
which I think could be omitted) and spelled
'while', and each "while whatever:" spelled
"if not whatever: break" _and indented like the
code it controls rather than like the 'while'_.

*shrug* I'm OK with that syntax, even if it's not
quite the sugar I would like best (particularly
the indentation part).  I think the 'worst defect'
(and it's not that big!-) of the current syntax is
that it seems to promote threads about how Python
needs more special loop forms, when it clearly does
not, since it already has the general-loop (albeit
spelled peculiarly).  I guess that the cost of
rewriting all existing Python code, even if one
agreed with me that loop/while syntax is better,
would be higher than that of participating in these
threads (which one can choose to avoid:-).  Even
the mythical 'Py3K' to come, which will be free to
break some backwards compatibility, will no doubt
do so only when the gain from the incompatibility
is deemed larger than its cost -- it won't be
approached as a "greenfield" language design...:-).


Alex





From jpl at global.co.za  Sat Jan 20 06:51:15 2001
From: jpl at global.co.za (James Lockley)
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 13:51:15 +0200
Subject: BeOpen 2.0 vs PythonWare
References: <mailman.979914382.23892.python-list@python.org> <o3aa6.7717$AH6.1213244@newsc.telia.net>
Message-ID: <94btrs$4rr$1@news.adamastor.ac.za>

"Fredrik Lundh" <fredrik at effbot.org> wrote

> hey, you forgot one: the PythonWare PY20 distro:
>
>     http://www.pythonware.com/downloads.htm
>

i found i couldn't add win32all to it though.... (is that just a directory
naming issue?)

cheers
james




From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Tue Jan  9 17:51:51 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 23:51:51 +0100
Subject: post in CGI scripts
References: <mailman.979051149.6515.python-list@python.org> <93fcrj$3lm$1@reader1.imaginet.fr>
Message-ID: <93g4vl0fnc@news2.newsguy.com>

"Gilles Lenfant" <glenfant at equod.com.nospam> wrote in message
news:93fcrj$3lm$1 at reader1.imaginet.fr...
> Hmmm...
>
> With WinNT 4 + (IIS | Apache) + (Python 1.5.2 | python 2.0) I get all data
> with "cgi.FieldStorage()" and did not need to patch anything.
> Sorry, I have no experience with Xitami, but...

I do use Xitami regularly at home -- easiest-to-install-administer-etc
webserver
I could find around.  Works fine w Python CGI (GET & POST) in my experience.

> Did you test dummy POST handling scripts with something else than python
> (i.e. perl)?

Simplest try: change the ACTION url of your form to visit cgi.py directly
(copy it in the cgi-bin directory or wherever it is you keep your cgi's); it
will output copious information as a test that things are running fine, what
information has been passed, etc etc.


Alex





From dsh8290 at rit.edu  Thu Jan 11 20:09:08 2001
From: dsh8290 at rit.edu (D-Man)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 20:09:08 -0500
Subject: why no "do : until"?
In-Reply-To: <90278A4rcamesz@127.0.0.1>; from rcameszREMOVETHIS@dds.removethistoo.nl on Fri, Jan 12, 2001 at 12:33:58AM +0000
References: <mailman.979188492.12187.python-list@python.org> <90278A4rcamesz@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <20010111200908.E20125@dman.rh.rit.edu>

On Fri, Jan 12, 2001 at 12:33:58AM +0000, Robert Amesz wrote:
[snip]
| 
| Well, to put in my fl 0,02 (soon te be about E 0,01 <g>) I have to say 
| I feel that syntax is flawed: not only does it break the block in two 
| parts (whereas a dedent in other cases means the end of the block is 
| reached), but it's also visually ambiguous because a 'while' could be 
| the start of a loop, but it might also be somewhere in the middle of 
| one.
| 
| As I prefer programming languages to be as context-free as possible, 
| I'd like to make a counter-proposal:
| 
|      do:
|           something
|           until condition
|           something else
| 

This also breaks the indent-denotes-block-structure style.  Is the
"until" clause really a part of the "something" block?  If it is
adopted I think it ought to stand out more tying it more closely to
the "do".  I wouldn't mind if, say, the until was to recieve a
half-indent (or half-dedent depending on your view) as compared to the
"something" and "something else" blocks.

| 
[snip]
| All syntactic sugar, I admit, but so was the other proposal. However, 
| this proposal would have a lot less impact on the overall syntax of 
| Python, which would seem to be more in keeping with its modest goals.
| 

I wouldn't really mind Alex's version of Knuth's construct either, with
the same indentation consideration.

-D




From claird at starbase.neosoft.com  Thu Jan  4 13:45:08 2001
From: claird at starbase.neosoft.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: 4 Jan 2001 12:45:08 -0600
Subject: why no "do : until"?
References: <92jj3j$ff7$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <3A534367.36B1FD18@uswest.net> <slrn957j19.go.amk@207-172-36-81.s81.tnt6.ann.va.di <932d0k$ita$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <2A3A3AE35648BEEA.0F607C4C4788202D.5BBA589FD04E1E1D@lp.airnews.net>

In article <932d0k$ita$1 at nntp6.u.washington.edu>,
Donn Cave  <donn at u.washington.edu> wrote:
			.
			.
			.
>If someone wants to contribute something useful to the language,
>make it work better in more environments - problem domains, computer
>platforms, graphic systems.  Make it smaller or faster.  Improve the
>exception interface in an existing component.  Add POSIX signal blocking
>to the signal module, make ptys work on another UNIX (or not) platform.
>Come up with a network server class system that doesn't put its sockets
>into unbuffered stdio, at the cost of 1 byte unbuffered reads.  A multi-
>thread dispatch system that works for a socket client, and doesn't rely
>on concurrent read and write access to the device to work.  I have to
>go, if none of these ideas is up your alley, just ask here and see if
>anyone else has an idea.  There is surely something productive left to
>be done.
>
>	Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu

Nice list.  Also:  DOCUMENTATION (including tutorials),
useful bindings (SNMP, LDAP, Postgres, ...), ...
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at NeoSoft.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://starbase.neosoft.com/~claird/home.html


From max at alcyone.com  Sun Jan 28 14:50:10 2001
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 11:50:10 -0800
Subject: Hack request: rational numbers
References: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0101251759070.28148-100000@kev.ioc.ee> <951h34$tch$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <3A7477F2.8DD6A97D@alcyone.com>

chaoweilun at my-deja.com wrote:

> Sorry,BTW,could anyone tell me,why the letter "j" is used
> to represent complex numbers, but not "i"?

i is commonly used by mathematics, j is commonly used by engineers. 
Physicists tend to use i more frequently than j.

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, US / 37 20 N 121 53 W / ICQ16063900 / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ I go out with actresses because I'm not apt to marry one.
\__/ Henry Kissinger
    Maths reference / http://www.alcyone.com/max/reference/maths/
 A mathematics reference.


From nielsenjf at my-deja.com  Mon Jan 29 11:17:21 2001
From: nielsenjf at my-deja.com (John Nielsen)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 16:17:21 GMT
Subject: win32net NetServerEnum BufferSize, Resume
References: <kjf47t0capb2obuftos06n8i95mr4dbvtg@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <954526$vc0$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

In article <kjf47t0capb2obuftos06n8i95mr4dbvtg at 4ax.com>,
  djmoore at uh.edu wrote:
> I'm working with the Win32 API NetServerEnum function under
> ActivePython 2.02.
>

Thanks for your comments!

As Mark Hammond mentioned, MAX_PREFERRED_LENGTH is the way to go. In
win32netcon, it is defined.

The way you do it looks fine and cleaner too. If you have a large enough
group of workstations (I've tried it on thousands), the resume handle is
used.

Interestingly, I know the SDK docs say servername must be NULL. However,
in their own examples it is not. And, setting it to not NULL works.

Have a good day,

john



--
nielsenjf at my-Deja.com


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From Michael.Scharf at gmx.de  Wed Jan 10 04:53:13 2001
From: Michael.Scharf at gmx.de (Michael Scharf)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 10:53:13 +0100
Subject: Q: win32all license for python 1.5.2?
Message-ID: <3A5C3109.2163FAA4@gmx.de>

Hi,

I am slightly confused with the python licenses: We use
python 1.5.2 for a commercial product (SNiFF+
http://www.windriver.com/products/html/sniff.html). We now
want to use the win32 COM extensions from 
http://www.python.org/windows/win32all .

Following the links, I end up with this license agreement:

http://www.activestate.com/Products/ActivePython/License_Agreement.html

  ... You may not distribute copies of this Package, or copies of
  packages derived from this Package, to others outside your
  organization without specific prior written permission from
  ActiveState (although you are encouraged to direct them to
  sources from which they may obtain it for themselves)...


The questions:
- Can we use win32all for our commercial product?
- Do we need this permission for the 1.5.2 version?
- What must copyright notes must appear where?
- What do we have to make available and in which form?


I'm slightly confused (I remember the times when python was
only under the simple "Stichting Mathematisch Centrum Amsterdam"
copyright...)

Can anybody explain this to me (or give me a pointer to a
document, a non-native speaker and non-lawyer can
understand...)


Michael
-- 
     ''''\     Michael Scharf
    ` c-@@     TakeFive Software GmbH, a Wind River Company
    `    >     http://www.WindRiver.com
     \_ V      mailto:Michael.Scharf at gmx.de


From sdm7g at Virginia.EDU  Thu Jan 25 21:15:20 2001
From: sdm7g at Virginia.EDU (Steven D. Majewski)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 21:15:20 -0500 (EST)
Subject: CHECK_IMPORT_CASE
Message-ID: <Pine.A32.3.90.1010125211440.16957B-100000@elvis.med.Virginia.EDU>


While looking for a way to solve the macosx case insensitivity import
problem, I found in Python/import.c: 

#ifdef CHECK_IMPORT_CASE
static int check_case(char *, int, int, char *);
#endif

However, neither I nor the linker could find the implementation
of check_case. Is this a work in progress ? Does someone have
a planned solution? 

[ And more generally, how would one find this sort of info? 
 SourceForge has a search function for Bugs, but not for patches.
 I tried pulling down the cvs (instead of starting from the 
 2.1a1 distribution) and doing a 'cvs ...  history' , which 
 just hangs on me. ]

-- Steve Majewski








From sholden at holdenweb.com  Wed Jan 10 09:12:57 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 09:12:57 -0500
Subject: Reading Microsoft Outlook Express .dbx files
Message-ID: <h7_66.8949$X3.91000@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>

In my trek through the various mail packages the Windoze user may be
confronted with I am currently battling with Outlook Express.  It's actually
rather better than I feared.

Its native folder format appears to be a ".dbx" file, about which I have no
information.  Does any reader have experience with either reading these
files, or automating OEx to provide them to a Python program in RFC822-style
formats?

Or, indeed, any other way of extracting mail items from the files created by
OEx.

regards
 Steve
--
Tools, training and technology can help you meet your information needs




From noahspurrier at my-deja.com  Sun Jan 14 16:40:52 2001
From: noahspurrier at my-deja.com (noahspurrier at my-deja.com)
Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 21:40:52 GMT
Subject: Does 'and' short circuit?
Message-ID: <93t6d3$pu$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

Does the 'and' statement short-circuit?
For example are the following statements safe?

    x={'notfoo':1}
    if x.has_key('foo') and x.get('foo') == 1:
        print 'bar'

It seems to work under the interpreter, but I
have not been able to find a confirmation to this
in the online documentation or tutorial.

Thanks,
Noah


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From bobhicks at adelphia.net  Wed Jan 17 16:22:54 2001
From: bobhicks at adelphia.net (Robert L Hicks)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 21:22:54 GMT
Subject: Relational Databases and Python
References: <mailman.979589896.32678.python-list@python.org> <3A63D5DB.50B7DD0E@python.net> <d$pEguFgAHA.266@fnews1.vi-internet.de> <slrn96bh4n.5av.lars@server.in-addr.de>
Message-ID: <B68B7726.8CB7%bobhicks@adelphia.net>

I just peaked at it...it looks to be well done and there are a couple of
examples to look at.

Bob

> From: lars at marowsky-bree.de (Lars Marowsky-Bree)
> Organization: Posted via teuto.net Netzdienste GmbH <news at teuto.net>
> Newsgroups: comp.lang.python
> Date: 17 Jan 2001 17:13:11 +0100
> Subject: Re: Relational Databases and Python
> 
> On Wed, 17 Jan 2001 09:01:22 +0100, Robert Sauer
> <sauer at informatik.hu-berlin.de> wrote:
> 
>> Another opetion would be to go with SAP DB. It's freshly published as Open
>> SOurce.
>> 
>> Have a look at http://www.sap.com/solutions/technology/sapdb/
> 
> Do you have any experience so far how well it works with Python and in
> general?
> 



From dsh8290 at rit.edu  Sat Jan  6 10:44:01 2001
From: dsh8290 at rit.edu (D-Man)
Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2001 10:44:01 -0500
Subject: Migrating to perl?
In-Reply-To: <3a577c3f.1136820729@news.mindspring.com>; from daniels@python.org on Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 08:21:44PM +0000
References: <3Fa56.4580$of7.216286@news1.atl> <933fa1$j2i$1@newshost.accu.uu.nl> <ggd56.4652$of7.222552@news1.atl> <slrn95asih.tss.scarblac@pino.selwerd.nl> <3a577c3f.1136820729@news.mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <20010106104401.A26897@rit.edu>

On Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 08:21:44PM +0000, daniels at python.org wrote:
| 
| Actually, that's *mostly* true but not 100%. If you have a class data
| member with a name starts with two underscores, it will basically be a
| "private" variable, accessible within the class, but not directy
| readable outside of it. Example:
| 
|     class X:
|         def __init__(self):
|             self.a   = 100 # Public.
|             self.__b = 200 # Private, due to the two underscores.
|         def ChangeB(self, val):
| 	    self.__b = val # This still works fine.
| 
|     obj = X()
|     print obj.a      # Prints 100
|     obj.ChangeB(300) # This works fine.
|     print obj.__b    # Will throw an AttributeError.

As long as you realize that
      print obj._X__b
will work, making private in Python not really private anyways.  Of
course, this direct access will break polymorphism.

| 
| So in short, you can have private data members if you want, but from
| my own experience I've learned it isn't worth my time. Part of the
| Python philosophy seems to be to Keep It Simple whenver possible, and
| if I want to keep a data member of a class private, well, I just don't
| fiddle directly with "obj.a", is all. Hope this helps.

-D



From andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au  Wed Jan 24 04:34:42 2001
From: andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au (Andrew MacIntyre)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 20:34:42 +1100 (EDT)
Subject: Python 2.0 makes the current Megawidget PmwCounter (v.0.8.4)
 useless
In-Reply-To: <3a6d3b73.3713875@news.addcom.de>
Message-ID: <Pine.OS2.4.30.0101242032140.553-100000@CENTRAL>

On Tue, 23 Jan 2001, Konrad Koller wrote:

> Under Python 2.0 in all my programs the PmwCounter widget in its
> integer (!) form fails when the value is changed with the arrow
> buttons. Make a test with the demo Counter.py and you will realize how
> the value fails to be changed. Under 1.5. everything was ok. Who can
> cure the problem (perhaps G. McFarlane)?

I recall a posting where someone came up with a fix - I suggest you do
some Deja searching (http://www.deja.com/).

IIRC, the problem arises because 2.0 changed the behavior of printing
Python Longs (ie it now doesn't included the trailing 'L' in some
circumstances.

HTH

--
Andrew I MacIntyre                     "These thoughts are mine alone..."
E-mail: andrew.macintyre at aba.gov.au    (work) | Snail: PO Box 370
        andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au  (play) |        Belconnen  ACT  2616
        andymac at pcug.org.au           (play2) |        Australia




From quinn at retch.ugcs.caltech.edu  Thu Jan 25 15:41:46 2001
From: quinn at retch.ugcs.caltech.edu (Quinn Dunkan)
Date: 25 Jan 2001 20:41:46 GMT
Subject: Library paths
References: <94pm5p$mhi$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <slrn9713sa.v57.quinn@retch.ugcs.caltech.edu>

On Thu, 25 Jan 2001 17:01:53 GMT, sp00fD <sp00fD at yahoo.com> wrote:
>I build Python2.0, and added in tk support.  Now when I try to use
>python, I get:
>ld.so.1: python: fatal: libtk8.3.so: open failed: No such file or
>directory
>
>I can set my LD_LIBRARY_PATH to point to the directory which holds the
>tk library and everything is cool.  The question is, is there any way
>to build python so that I don't have to add a LD_LIBRARY_PATH entry to
>all the users?

Well, you didn't mention what OS you're using, but under Irix or Linux (and
SunOS I believe), you can add -rpath /my/shlib/dir to the link line.  Usual
practice is, of course, to put your libraries in a standard dir, but sometimes
you can't or don't want to do that.


From maxm at normik.dk  Fri Jan 12 04:33:28 2001
From: maxm at normik.dk (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Max_M=F8ller_Rasmussen?=)
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 10:33:28 +0100
Subject: is Python fully object oriented ?
Message-ID: <7BD10B680501D411B9DF009027E06F32197B92@exchange>

From: Simon Brunning [mailto:SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk]

>> I don't know if this helps, but it's perfectly legal to use a name other
>> than "self" in Python, e.g.,
>> 
>> class SpamChunk:
>>   def __init__(s):
>>     s.color = 'green'
>> 
>It's also legal never to wash, but you won't make many friends that way,
>either.

It's the only thing about Python that bothers me endlessly, having to
explicitly pass "self".

In javascript ie. "this" is implicit and that is so much simpler.

I know it breaks the rule of "Explicit is better than implicit" but this
ought to to be an exception as it is so commonly used. (And I so commonly
make the mistake of forgetting it ;-) )

Is there a REALLY good reason that it has to be explicitly declared ?

Regards Max M



From avv at quasar.ipa.nw.ru  Wed Jan 24 15:21:57 2001
From: avv at quasar.ipa.nw.ru (Alexander V. Voinov)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 12:21:57 -0800
Subject: Parametrized definitor
References: <ul3snm8dfae.fsf@smaug.fsl.noaa.gov> <94n7tu$41c$1@news.udel.edu>
Message-ID: <3A6F3965.6D0ACAFB@quasar.ipa.nw.ru>

Hi All,

How you'd like this:

def(a=1, b='Hello') f(x):
	pass

print f.a

Same for lambda :-)

Alexander

Terry Reedy wrote:
> 
> "Mike Romberg" <romberg at smaug.fsl.noaa.gov> wrote in message
> news:ul3snm8dfae.fsf at smaug.fsl.noaa.gov...
> >
> >   I've been messing around with python-2.1a1 and have discovered the
> > new feature 'function attributes'.  The project I'm currently working
> > on can really use this feature.
> > http://python.sourceforge.net/peps/pep-0232.html
> 
> Not having read the PEP, I wondered 'what is this good for?' when I read
> GvR's announcement.
> The PEP gives three possible uses.  Is your use something different?  (that
> you can tell us?)
> 
> Now having read the PEP, it occurs to me that this could be used to supply
> optional type information to a compiler without any of the ugly syntax
> changes that have been proposed and so far rejected.
> 
> # example of function with identified parameter and return type information
> from type import *
> def f(a,b): pass
> f.argtypes = {'a':IntType, 'b':ListType, 'f':StringType}
> 
> Someone wanting to experiment along this line need only fix on an attribute
> name and syntax and proceed without any further approvals.
> 
> Terry J. Reedy


From andreas at andreas-jung.com  Sun Jan  7 16:34:20 2001
From: andreas at andreas-jung.com (Andreas Jung)
Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2001 22:34:20 +0100
Subject: shtml in python
In-Reply-To: <93algg$pdj$1@sunsite.icm.edu.pl>; from vesemir@pro1.promail.pl on Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 10:05:08PM +0100
References: <93adro$k9n$1@sunsite.icm.edu.pl> <9z366.240411$_5.53698286@news4.rdc1.on.home.com> <93algg$pdj$1@sunsite.icm.edu.pl>
Message-ID: <20010107223420.A2088@yetix.sz-sb.de>

On Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 10:05:08PM +0100, Vesemir wrote:
> Hello!
> U?ytkownik "Michael P. Soulier" <msoulier at storm.ca> napisa? w wiadomo?ci
> news:9z366.240411$_5.53698286 at news4.rdc1.on.home.com...
> > In article <93adro$k9n$1 at sunsite.icm.edu.pl>, Vesemir wrote:
> > >
> > >How to write shtml scripts in python?
> > >what's needed to configure apache server?
> >
> >     I think you're confusing two concepts here. shtml is a standard file
> > extension for Server Side Includes. This has nothing to do with Python. If
> you
> > are instead hoping to use Python to write CGI scripts, then read up on
> your
> > web server's documentation on how to enable CGI scripts. If it's apache,
> check
> > the apache web site. They have excellent documention.
> 
> No! I want to configure apache server to embed python scripts into html
> code.

Configure your web server to allow the execution of CGI scripts.
And then include the corresponding URL of the CGI scripts
inside the SSI statement.

Andreas



From amk at mira.erols.com  Wed Jan 24 22:38:22 2001
From: amk at mira.erols.com (A.M. Kuchling)
Date: 25 Jan 2001 03:38:22 GMT
Subject: unpack sequence to tuple?
References: <94j6j1$3na$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <mailman.980234666.18231.python-list@python.org> <94jjtb0108j@news1.newsguy.com> <94kf4n$58u$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <94krq40bh6@news2.newsguy.com> <94mk4k$vhh$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <mailman.980378488.26494.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrn96v8nj.i9.amk@mira.erols.com>

On Thu, 25 Jan 2001 00:19:07 +0100, Thomas Wouters <thomas at xs4all.net> wrote:
>2.1 contains a whole lot more of those subtle fixes. Little annoying things
>that noone (read: not Guido :) bothered to fix before. (And also some nice
>large architectural changes, of course :)

Agreed; what's nice about 2.1 is that most of the new features, such
as function attributes, rich comparisons, &c. arose out of some user
demand, not just out of random featuritis.  Just today, I ran into a
bit of ugliness because cmp() has no idea what comparison operator is
being requested, and there's no good way to tidy it up in 2.0.  The
rich comparisons in 2.1 will allow fixing it properly, which is
pleasing.

(2.0 added comprehensions; 2.1 adds comparisons.  Will 2.2 add
"compacting"?  Or "comptrolling"?)

--amk


From pbjorn at uswest.net  Thu Jan  4 12:57:25 2001
From: pbjorn at uswest.net (Bjorn Pettersen)
Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 10:57:25 -0700
Subject: variable inirialization and loop forms (was Re: why no "do : 
 until"?)
References: <92jj3j$ff7$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <3A4D6A05.EEC97FA6@uswest.net> <slrn94qqvg.mgg.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <ije36.96813$x6.43604873@news2.rdc2.tx.home.com> <slrn94qt4f.mgg.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <CMo36.97857$x6.44474719@news2.rdc2.tx.home.com> <slrn94s9qg.134.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <gdq36.2696$Qb7.302774@newsb.telia.net> <slrn94shbe.150.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <92v6m002nlr@news2.newsguy.com> <slrn9578qr.3mc.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <9U_46.937$Gd1.78831@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <3A54B985.5FDDD57D@uswest.net>

Steve Holden wrote:

> Steve Lamb <grey at despair.rpglink.com> wrote in message
> news:slrn9578qr.3mc.grey at teleute.rpglink.com...
> >
> [snip, snippety snip snip, snip snip]
> >     We done now?
> >
> I certainly hope so.

Same time, same bat-channel, next month?

<wink>?

-- bjorn




From donn at u.washington.edu  Thu Jan 25 12:18:41 2001
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: 25 Jan 2001 17:18:41 GMT
Subject: sockets: client dies...
References: <94kmt5$cuj$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <94ksfl$r2a$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu> <94ngqn$rph$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <3A6F8AB1.BDF23F5D@home.com> <94pj8n$jfl$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <94pn5h$t3e$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>

Quoth Keith Murphy <kpmurphy at my-deja.com>:
| ok here's what i understand.
|
|  makes the conn.recv(1024) statement wait for a result, where as
| conn.setblocking(0) just throws an exception if there isn't something
| there immediately.
|
| in my server, it's continuously listening for new clients on one thread,
| and listening to current clients on another thread.  in the current
| client thread:
|
|             for u in userlist:
|                 try:
|                     data = ''
|                     data = string.strip(u.conn.recv(1024))
|
|                     #
|                     # all commands start with a /
|                     if data[0] == '/':
|                         server_msg, client_msg = u.do(data)
|
|                         self.update_kill()
|
|                         #
|                         # tell the client stuff
|                         if client_msg:
|                             u.conn.send(client_msg)
|
|                         self.disp(server_msg)
|                 except:
|                     pass
|
| ...it checks to see if each client has something to say.  if not, it
| throws the exception, and moves on.  if so, it executes their commands,
| and displays results, etc.
|
| is this a lame way to do this?  is there a better way?  i need to be
| able to detect when a client has died.  currently this isn't possible,
| or is it?

Yes, frankly that's lame, but that's beside the point.

Where you have
         data = ''
         data = string.strip(u.conn.recv(1024))

Do this:
	data = u.conn.recv(1024)
        if not data:
            u.hold_funeral()
        data = string.strip(data)

To reiterate:  When the client dies, the connection will close.
When the connection has closed, recv() will return an empty string,
length == 0.

Now, about that exception.  There are hardly any good places to trap
every possible exception, indiscriminately, and then just "pass" in
the except block.  This certainly ain't one of those places.  Here's
what I think I would do:

    try:
        data = u.conn.recv(1024)
    except socket.error, excval:
        if excval.errno == errno.EAGAIN:
            pass
        raise

... OK, I lied.  I wouldn't do that.  I really never want to set
a socket nonblocking, and therefore I would never write that
exception handler.  Your code will execute more efficiently if you
use select(), and then you won't need nonblocking either.  (Non-blocking
does something for connect(), but that's a more advanced topic.)

	Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu


From shaun at tancheff.com  Wed Jan 24 18:35:56 2001
From: shaun at tancheff.com (Shaun Tancheff)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 23:35:56 GMT
Subject: SWIG for NT
References: <94add5$7o5$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <94iams$bv4$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <3a6f665f.3067286@news>

On Mon, 22 Jan 2001 22:03:14 GMT, Opinderjit <bhellao at my-deja.com>
wrote:

I've built 1.1p5 I havn't done anything since... I also built this for
OS/2 -- I don't know that it is complete, but it does what I need to
build a basic python/C wrapper.

>Is there anybody out there who has build this library, or know how to
>build it for windows.
>
>In article <94add5$7o5$1 at nnrp1.deja.com>,
>  Opinderjit <bhellao at my-deja.com> wrote:
>> Is there a libswigpy library for the NT environment?
>>
>> Thank you.
>>
>> Sent via Deja.com
>> http://www.deja.com/
>>
>
>
>Sent via Deja.com
>http://www.deja.com/

 http://shaun.tancheff.com/       /?/                 -_-
  :-) shaun ;-] shaun at tancheff.com (Shaun Tancheff) .sigs freed


From sune at interspace.dk  Thu Jan 18 07:46:44 2001
From: sune at interspace.dk (Sune Kirkeby)
Date: 18 Jan 2001 13:46:44 +0100
Subject: help retrieving / storing info in dictionary or gadfly
References: <93u48n$65t@dispatch.concentric.net>
Message-ID: <87r921koy3.fsf@sune.interspace.dk>

[ "Bryan Webb" <bww00 at amdahl.com> ]

>     I have a dictionary that has records with keys from 1 to 2^128 I
> can build a list and sort the keys in order, then search thru the
> list of sorted keys.
>     If the list has 1,2,3,4,5,7,8,9 and I need to search for 6. 6 is
> not in the list , so I need the record that is closest to 6 but not
> greater than 6.  Is there a way to further index the list of keys to
> do this ?

Since the list is sorted (in ascending order, presumably), you could
just do a binary search through it.  Something along the lines of,

def find(list, number):
    """Given a list of numbers, sorted in ascending order, find the
    largest element that is less-than-or-equal some given number.  If a
    fitting element is found return this (the value, that is);
    otherwise it return None."""
    
    # Sanity check
    if len(list) == 0:
        return None
    
    # Simple binary search through the list.
    pivot = len(list) / 2
    while list[pivot] != number:
        # If the pivot is less-than the sought-for number we include
        # the pivot in the further search (so we can find the nearest
        # number that is less-than, if no exact match is found).
        if list[pivot] < number:
            list = list[pivot : ]
        else:
            list = list[0 : pivot]
        pivot = len(list) / 2
        
        if len(list) == 1:
            break
    
    # Done, if list[pivot] > number we searched all the way down to the
    # bottom of the list, but found no match, so we return None since
    # all elements in the list are greater-than the number.
    if list[pivot] <= number:
        return list[pivot]
    else:
        return None

> Could I use GADFLY to do this.

Dunno.

-- 
Sune Kirkeby                    | "Imagine, if you will, that there were no
http://mel.interspace.dk/~sune/ | such thing as a hypothetical situation..."


From dsh8290 at rit.edu  Wed Jan  3 13:48:29 2001
From: dsh8290 at rit.edu (D-Man)
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2001 13:48:29 -0500
Subject: embedded python - cancel "while 1: pass"
In-Reply-To: <P9K46.13336$t3.31020@tor-nn1.netcom.ca>; from embed@NO_SPAM_PLEASE.geocities.com on Wed, Jan 03, 2001 at 01:25:17PM -0500
References: <P9K46.13336$t3.31020@tor-nn1.netcom.ca>
Message-ID: <20010103134829.A5919@westsidecnc.rh.rit.edu>

Just brainstorming here:

you could inspect the code for such constructs and not execute those

you could execute the code in a separate thread, and that thread must
send a signal to the parent thread at given intervals,  if the thread
doesn't respond, it must be bad so kill it  (this is similar to a
watchdog timer from processor level operation)

HTH,
-D




From chris at voodooland.net  Fri Jan  5 02:47:15 2001
From: chris at voodooland.net (Chris Watson)
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 01:47:15 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Calling an application from inside a python script Take 1
In-Reply-To: <933qpg$nk$0@216.39.151.169>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.21.0101050138520.85691-100000@open-systems.net>



> The easiest thing to write is
> 
>     import os
>     ...
>     os.system('ssh -l root %s vi /usr/local/etc/apache.conf' % host)
> 
> 
> It's also about as dangerous as anything you can do in Python.  It
> puts you completely at the mercy of whoever typed in that text at
> the "Enter a hostname: " prompt.  Intentionally or not, a space
> or a semi-colon etc. could yield very different results than you
> intend.

Someone else pointed out the exact same way. However they also described
it was bad h0h0 magic to do it that way. So...

> Luckily, with Python 2.0 we're getting to the point where you can
> do this in a safer way without writing all the fork & exec stuff
> yourself.  The function, os.spawnv(), is apparently here for
> compatibility with Windows!  but it seems to be what we need;
> you can look at the os module to see how it works if you want.
> 
>     import os
>     os.spawnv(os.P_WAIT, '/usr/local/bin/ssh', ('ssh', '-l', 'root',
>         host, 'vi', '/usr/local/etc/apache.conf'))
> 
> That last argument is a tuple of the argument list to ssh, starting
> with argv[0].  In the system() function, we would eventually invoke
> the shell to parse the string into these arguments, and that's where
> the unexpected metacharacters wreak their havoc.  By passing the
> arguments directly to the ssh process, we avoid that.

I had thought about this briefly as well. And decided on an earlier
repliers advice it would be wiser to copy the file to the local machine
instead of editing it remotely.

> Now, for this particular command, ssh, you might as well fold the
> 'vi' and the file together, because ssh is going to do that for
> the remote shell to parse back out.  So don't think you can get
> a sanitary calculated argument list through to the remote shell -
> that can't happen.  Your example is OK, because the remote command
> is constant.

Well what I finally came up with, and I am no coder by any means, was the
following:

#!/usr/local/bin/python

import os

host = raw_input("Enter a hostname: ");

# Copy the file from the remote server to the local machine.
os.system("scp user@%s:/home/user/TESTFILE /tmp/TESTFILE" % host) 

# Edit the local copy.
os.system("vi /tmp/TESTFILE")

# "Push" the new config file from the local machine to the remote machine
# using a secure ssh transport
os.system("rsync -v -P -p -e ssh /tmp/TESTFILE user@%s:/home/user/TESTFILE" % host)


How does this fare? Is this an acceptable solution? Or does this have
the words "GLARING BONE HEAD" in neon letters stamped on it?
I appreciate the replies and advice! Python seems to have a great group of
people surrounding it. Have a good weekend everyone!!

--
=============================================================================
-Chris Watson         (316) 326-3862 | FreeBSD Consultant, FreeBSD Geek 
Work:              scanner at jurai.net | Open Systems Inc., Wellington, Kansas
Home:  scanner at deceptively.shady.org | http://open-systems.net
=============================================================================
WINDOWS: "Where do you want to go today?"
LINUX: "Where do you want to go tommorow?"
BSD: "Are you guys coming or what?"
=============================================================================
irc.openprojects.net #FreeBSD -Join the revolution!
ICQ: 20016186




From dhirja at vsnl.net  Tue Jan 23 10:56:03 2001
From: dhirja at vsnl.net (Dhirja Gangopadhyay)
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 21:26:03 +0530
Subject: Fw: WhatamI doing wrong ? (re: About Content-Transfer-Encoding)
Message-ID: <02a301c08554$fe4a4080$020000c3@node02>

Idea:
Could I be I going wrong because I am encoding string by string rather than
the whole file at once ? (That does create a problem, though - how do I
convert all the lists I write to the body into a file first !)

Thanks, Oleg for the link. I am unable to FTP the link from that link,
however. My connection is really frustrating.

Thanks

Sandipan

----- Original Message -----
From: "Dhirja Gangopadhyay" <dhirja at vsnl.net>
To: <python-list at python.org>
Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2001 8:54 PM
Subject: WhatamI doing wrong ? (re: About Content-Transfer-Encoding)


> I did the following few things in this:
>
> I found on a Google Search -
> http://www.linuxsolutions.demon.co.uk/PythonPages2.html
>     subwriter = w.nextpart()
>     subwriter.addheader("Content-Transfer-Encoding", "base64")
>     subwriter.addheader("Content-Disposition", 'attachment; filename="%s"'
%
> _fileName)
>     f = subwriter.startbody('application/octet-stream; name="%s"' %
> _fileName)
>     subwriter.flushheaders()
>     base64.encode(open('./%s' % _fileName, 'r'), f)
>     w.lastpart()
>
> Where I learnt to change my:
>
>     listLines = ['zxczxc','werwerwer']
>     subwriter = w.nextpart()
>     f = subwriter.startbody('text/html')
>     subwriter.flushheaders()
>     f.writelines(listLines)
>     w.lastpart()
>
> To:
>
>     def mthEncoder(lstLines):
>         import base64
>         tmpList = []
>         for lstLine in lstLines:
>             tmpList.append(base64.stringencode(lstLine))
>         return tmpList
>
>     listLines = ['zxczxc','werwerwer']
>     subwriter = w.nextpart()
>     subwriter.addheader("Content-Transfer-Encoding", "base64")
>     subwriter.addheader("Content-Disposition", 'inline')
>     f = subwriter.startbody('text/html')
>     subwriter.flushheaders()
>     f.writelines(mthEncoder(listLines))
>     w.lastpart()
>
> Works fine on the server. The e-mail goes out.
>
> But when received on the Outlook Express 5.5 client, the strings are all
> mangled.
> I cant figure out why. What am I doing Wrong ?
>
> Thanks
>
> Sandipan
>
> PS. I am using Dhirja's account as my ISP's SMTP server is down !
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dhirja Gangopadhyay" <dhirja at vsnl.net>
> To: <python-list at python.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2001 7:32 PM
> Subject: About Content-Transfer-Encoding
>
>
> > I use the MimeWriter module to build a MIME body that I then send over
> SMTP
> > using smtplib.
> >
> > How can I force content-transfer-encoding to base64 ?
> > Content-type is text/plain, text/html and text/xml.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Sandipan
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> >
>
>
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>





From jafo-pythonlist at tummy.com  Fri Jan 26 13:29:26 2001
From: jafo-pythonlist at tummy.com (Sean Reifschneider)
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 11:29:26 -0700
Subject: How to execute the script
In-Reply-To: <20010126161559.94427.qmail@web9605.mail.yahoo.com>; from jerryleekeeney@yahoo.com on Fri, Jan 26, 2001 at 08:15:59AM -0800
References: <20010126161559.94427.qmail@web9605.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20010126112926.C18170@tummy.com>

On Fri, Jan 26, 2001 at 08:15:59AM -0800, jerry keeney wrote:
>To execute a script in Python try:

Do you know how many CPUs it takes an IBM mainframe to execute a Python
script?

32.  30 to hold it down and 2 to rip it's head off.

Sorry, I couldn't resist.  ;-)

Sean
-- 
 Actual error message:  "Keyboard not connected.  Press F1 to continue."
Sean Reifschneider, Inimitably Superfluous <jafo at tummy.com>
tummy.com - Linux Consulting since 1995. Qmail, KRUD, Firewalls, Python



From donn at oz.net  Wed Jan 24 22:52:24 2001
From: donn at oz.net (Donn Cave)
Date: 25 Jan 2001 03:52:24 GMT
Subject: sockets: client dies...
References: <94kmt5$cuj$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <94ksfl$r2a$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu> <94ngqn$rph$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <3A6F8AB1.BDF23F5D@home.com>
Message-ID: <94o7to$fl0$0@216.39.151.169>

Quoth Rick Lee <rwklee at home.com>:
| You should be able to tell on the recv().  It will throw an exception, not
| just return "no data".
|
| Here is from a piece of working code I have:
|
| try:
|     data = self.connection.recv(MaxBytes)
| except socket.error,v:

I misinterpreted that at first!  What you mean is, if the socket
isn't readable and would block, then if nonblocking it will
instead raise an exception (with v.errno == errno.EAGAIN);
when the socket closes, it becomes readable and then it will
return ''.  So the story is similar, even if for whatever
reason the socket has been set nonblocking.

	Donn


From f8dy at my-deja.com  Tue Jan 30 12:54:26 2001
From: f8dy at my-deja.com (Mark Pilgrim)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 17:54:26 GMT
Subject: curly-brace-aphobic?
References: <3A74EBD6.3C87FD15@seebelow.org> <slrn97a9fu.7sf.clgonsal@keeshah.penguinpowered.com> <3A757FBE.E54C5ECD@seebelow.org> <mailman.980789494.4239.python-list@python.org> <slrn97c6bs.bjo.scarblac@pino.selwerd.nl> <mailman.980870616.378.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <956v4c$e3s$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

In article <mailman.980870616.378.python-list at python.org>,
  D-Man <dsh8290 at rit.edu> wrote:
> | An essential difference is the fact that lists are ordered, but dicts aren't.
>
> Suppose I use a dict with integers as keys.  How is this different from a list?
>
> dict = { 1:"one" , 2:"two" , 3:"three" }
> list = [   "one" ,   "two" ,   "three" ]
>
> for i in len( list ) :
>       print list[i]
>
> for i in len( dict ) :
>       print dict[i]
>
> In this case, they are identical!

First, "for i in len(dict): print dict[i]" will give you a "loop over
non-sequence" error, because len returns an integer, and for requires a
sequence.  You need "for i in dict.keys(): print dict[i]".

Second, "for i in dict.keys(): print dict[i]" is not the same as "for i in
list: print list[i]" because dictionaries are unordered.  I'm not really
talking in circles here (I'm talking in sequences... no, never mind).  Just
because you defined dict in a particular order doesn't mean that the keys
stay in that order.  For instance, on my machine, just now, I did "for i in
dict.keys(): print dict[i]" and got the values in the reverse order from how
I defined them ("three two one").

See http://diveintopython.org/odbchelper_dict.html for more on dictionaries,
including a step-by-step example that illustrates this point.

-M
--
You're smart; why haven't you learned Python yet?  http://diveintopython.org/


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From mikael at isy.liu.se  Mon Jan 29 11:32:38 2001
From: mikael at isy.liu.se (Mikael Olofsson)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 17:32:38 +0100 (MET)
Subject: Books
In-Reply-To: <XFMail.010129165048.mikael@isy.liu.se>
Message-ID: <XFMail.010129173238.mikael@isy.liu.se>

On 29-Jan-01 Me, myself, and I wrote:
 >  seems to be two different places. Compyters are nit-pickers when it
 >  comes to spelling.

That should be computers. 

/Mikael

Note to self: Proofread one more time when posting to usenet.

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Phone:   +46 - (0)13 - 28 1343
Telefax: +46 - (0)13 - 28 1339
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Time:    17:30:26

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From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sun Jan 28 05:59:09 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 11:59:09 +0100
Subject: undefined variable
References: <nHsc6.252522$59.63479549@news3.rdc1.on.home.com> <94tq9d$7mb$1@panix2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <950vg2126tu@news2.newsguy.com>

"Aahz Maruch" <aahz at panix.com> wrote in message
news:94tq9d$7mb$1 at panix2.panix.com...
> In article <nHsc6.252522$59.63479549 at news3.rdc1.on.home.com>,
> shaka <fabrice.n at home.com> wrote:
> >
> > hi, I am a beginner learning python, and I have notice that in python
> >variale are not declared or defined. But does it mean that your cannot
use
> >the same variable twice and all your variable have to be of different
name.
> >In java you can have a variable of the same name but of different type
and
> >it makes programming much more flexible.
>
> Python variables can hold any data type.  Also, I could be wrong, but I
> doubt that Java supports name overloading for variables; I believe name
> overloading only applies to functions.

Yes, overloading DOES only apply to methods (aka functions) in Java.

Further, Java *explicitly forbids* a local variable 'shadowing' one in
a lexically-outer block -- because the language designers considered
such a practice too error-prone (I think they DO have a point!).

So, I'm at all not sure what shaka means here, throughout his 2nd
and 3rd sentences: you _can_ use homonym variables in Python, on
essentially the same terms as you can in Java, i.e., that they be in
different scopes (when Python scopes nest, if I read the PEP correctly,
you will also be able to do 'shadowing' in Python -- which may be a
pity, but, oh well); how such a practice "makes programming much
more flexible", I don't know -- it hardly seems a major issue!


Alex





From strupl at my-deja.com  Mon Jan  8 08:22:08 2001
From: strupl at my-deja.com (strupl at my-deja.com)
Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2001 13:22:08 GMT
Subject: jython beta question
References: <93305c$7ej$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <93cetr$f7f$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

In article <93305c$7ej$1 at nnrp1.deja.com>,
lobozc at my-deja.com wrote:
> I just found on the net jython beta - still
downloading as I am writing
> this. Looks veeery interesting - hence a big
question.
>
> I downloaded recently (about one hour ago)
www.netbeans.org IDE,
> version 3.1 beta. In difference to it's twin
sibling, Forte for Java,
> NetBeans also has a 'scripting window', which
allows you to type some
> script code in a three different scripting
langauges, JPython being one
> of them.
>
> 1) How can I use Jython instead of JPython in
that window? [I'm used to
> list comprehensions :-)]

To integrate a scripting language to use with NetBeans scripting console you
basically need (in simple case) one class and one entry in a manifest file.
The class for JPython is here
http://www.netbeans.org/source/browse/scripting/src/org/netbeans/modules/scri
pting/JPythonScriptType.java

If you can create similar class for Jython (you
don't have to
use reflection, it is there only to gracefully
recover if the
JPython is not there) you can try it. You can find
more
details about this at
http://scripting.netbeans.org. If you
need more assistance please send us questions like
this
to nbdev at netbeans.org (details about the list is at
http://www.netbeans.org/mail-top.html). If you will be
successful and want other people to use your solution
please see http://www.netbeans.org/contributing.html

> 2) Are there any plans to integrate Jython with
NetBeans IDE? [Which
> would be very cute, saved plenty of work - but
require a lot of work,
> too ;-)].

Well this depends what do you mean by integrating.
If you mean to use
it in the scripting console window this is quite
easy and could
be done. To include Jython with NetBeans our
lawyers will have
to examine the Jython license first. If you mean
integration
with syntax coloring, debugging etc. this would
require to
start a standalone project (and a lot of work indeed).

Hope this helps,

David Strupl


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From rturpin at my-deja.com  Sun Jan 14 10:57:54 2001
From: rturpin at my-deja.com (rturpin at my-deja.com)
Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 15:57:54 GMT
Subject: Protected execution through tricks with namespace scoping
Message-ID: <93sia0$hdn$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

Two caveats. First, don't ask me why. Second, I'm thinking
out loud, or more accurately, thinking while I'm typing.
So there may be gaping errors in the idea below. Almost
certainly, there are programming errors. At his point, I'm
working on the concepts, not the syntax.

The goal is to execute plug-in modules in a fashion that
protects the surrounding program from accidental harm.
Let's assume the plug-in module is an importable file
that defines a set of functions. The surrounding program
wants to supply some named services that are available.
It seems something like the following would work:

  # Plug in "foo"
  dFooGlobals = {"svc1": func1, "svc2": func2}
  dFooGlobals.__builtins__ = copy.copy(__builtins__)
  dFooLocals = {}

  try:
      exec "import foo\n" in dFooGlobals, dFooLocals
      # register "foo" and its functions
  except:
      # Handle errors from import

Later on, a function f in foo would be invoked by:

  try:
      exec "f(args)\n" in dFooGlobals, dFooLocals
  except:
      # Handle errors from f()

Obviously, either foo or its functions could run forever,
without returning. Using Python modules that give them
access to the external environment, they might kill
processes, screw up files, etc. But is there any way,
strictly in Python, that either can screw up the
operation of the surrounding program?

Russell


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From cfelling at iae.nl  Thu Jan 25 12:13:55 2001
From: cfelling at iae.nl (Carel Fellinger)
Date: 25 Jan 2001 18:13:55 +0100
Subject: python-2.1 function attributes
References: <ul3snm8dfae.fsf@smaug.fsl.noaa.gov> <m3n1cgzvpj.fsf@atrus.jesus.cam.ac.uk> <ul3ofwwddsy.fsf@smaug.fsl.noaa.gov> <mailman.980396369.12407.python-list@python.org> <Xns903472CE5CAduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <94pmsj$36d$1@animus.fel.iae.nl>

Duncan Booth <duncan.booth at lineone.net> wrote:
> Paul Prescod <paulp at ActiveState.com> wrote in 
> <mailman.980396369.12407.python-list at python.org>:
...
> How about something along the following lines?

> __attributes__= { 'attribute1' : 'val1', 'attribute2' : val2 }
> def spam():
>     """The doc string."""
>     pass

or even better(?) after the def but before spam making it visual clear
that it belongs to spam's definition, but hasn't access to anything but
the enclosing scope, like in:

def { 'attribute1' : 'val1', 'attribute2' : val2 } spam():
    """The doc string."""
    pass

this only works nice for litteral dicts, so bumber.
-- 
groetjes, carel


From kmbotha at interchange.ubc.ca  Wed Jan 17 18:45:09 2001
From: kmbotha at interchange.ubc.ca (Kris Marius Botha)
Date: 17 Jan 2001 23:45:09 GMT
Subject: OS Module (how to check free space)
Message-ID: <945aq5$2kd$1@nntp.itservices.ubc.ca>

Hi - newbie question: I've looked over the OS module documentation and I can't find a
tool within python that will allow me to check how much free space is available on a
storage device such as a hard drive.

Does anyone know how to do this?

Thanks


From trotts at llnl.gov  Thu Jan  4 22:12:32 2001
From: trotts at llnl.gov (Issac Trotts)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 19:12:32 -0800
Subject: Migrating to perl?
In-Reply-To: <3Fa56.4580$of7.216286@news1.atl>; from joejava@dragonat.net on Thu, Jan 04, 2001 at 09:49:00PM -0500
References: <3Fa56.4580$of7.216286@news1.atl>
Message-ID: <20010104191232.A23988@llnl.gov>

It's not clear that "migrating" is the best way to look at this.
Python has various strengths and weaknesses that complement
those of Perl and other languages.  For instance, Python's OO support
is much cleaner than Perl's, but Perl is better suited for various
scripting tasks.  

Issac


On Thu, Jan 04, 2001 at 09:49:00PM -0500, Joel Ricker wrote:
>  I'm thinking of moving from perl to python and I was looking for opinions
> on the difference.  I'm sure this being a python-centric group that I'll get
> very pro-python answers but I'm sure there are some old or current perl
> programmers that should be able to fill me in.
> 
> Personally, I'm starting to get a little fustrated with perl.  To me, being
> that there are so many contexts that code can be interpreted in it gets
> confusing sometimes hunting down bugs.  Also, I've been learning OO perl
> lately and deviations from what the code says should work and the
> documentation says should work is an excercise in fustration and I'm about
> ready to chunk it out the window.
> 
> So basically what I'd like to know is, how do the two compare?  Is there an
> easier learning curve with Python?  Are the modules and add-ons as good as
> perl (ie, Database -- I'm primarily interested in MySQL, CGI, Graphics).
> What about OOP?  Is it it a full OO language?  Is it easier than to use than
> perl?  Perl OO just feels like it has been cludged together.
> 
> And lastly, what about the Python community?  Is it friendlier than the perl
> community?  Too many times I've asked questions and all I'll get is pointers
> to documentation, which I've already read and so thats why I'm asking for
> information in the first place.  I understand simple questions for basic or
> novice information will warrant answers like that but not the things I've
> asked.
> 
> Well thanks for any info.
> Joel
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list



From hgg9140 at seanet.com  Tue Jan 23 11:37:33 2001
From: hgg9140 at seanet.com (Harry George)
Date: 23 Jan 2001 08:37:33 -0800
Subject: XML doc generation
References: <20010122223131.A31348@coastalgeology.org> <mailman.980219845.8094.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m3g0iaw7g2.fsf@wilma.localdomain>

Our standard approach is:
  App1 --> app1's datafile --> python OO model of app1 data --> 
  python neutral representation --> python OO model of app2 data
  --> app2's datafile

Sometimes, app1 or app2 have XML as their datafile formats (not the
*same* XML DTD of course).  As Paul says, the hard transformations are
done python-to-python.  You can go point-to-point or use a neutral
representation hub-and-spoke mechanism.

In those cases where XML is the desired output, I've tried both ways:

  a) Each object has a "to_xml" methods, and you recursively traverse
  the tree generating xml by hand
  b) Each object has a "to_dom" method, and you recursively traverse
  the tree generating the dom.  Then run "dom.PrettyPrinter" or
  whatever to get the actualy XML.

The problem with "a" is that you have to write more code (not much
more, but some), and need to do your own tabbed-writer to get indents.
The problem with "b" is that you must accept the xml writer's idea of
the proper output format.  Thus, attributes may be in hash order or
alpha sort order where you really wanted some other order.  So it's a
tradeoff.

Paul Prescod <paulp at ActiveState.com> writes:

> Jonathan Pennington wrote:
> > 
> >...
> > 
> > Well, I trust your judgement there. As a reformed perl and PHP
> > programmer, I can write text into a file in my sleep :-) However, one
> > last question. If I wanted to download this coordinate info, then
> > manipulate it as a DOM, would that still be easier. In other words, as
> > stated above, I would download data from the receiver directly into an
> > XML file, then parse the XML file into memory, display/manipulate it,
> > then rewrite it to the file when saved. 
> 
> Even in the case where the data came from XML, it may or may not be
> easiest to manipulate it *as* XML. If you are doing lots of complicated
> manipulations, it might be easier to do it in some other data structure. 
> 
> Imagine if I had a matrix encoded as an XML "table". Doing a transform
> to rotate the table would be a lot more work than doing the equivalent
> with simple Python lists or with NumPy arrays.
> 
> On the other hand, if you were just running around the tree adding a few
> attributes or something then it would be easier to keep it as a DOM for
> the whole program.
> 
> > Do I understand correctly. It
> > does sound easy enough, I just want to make sure that I'm not missing
> > something or making things difficult with all that file I/O. Thanks.
> 
> A lot of people are nervous that writing out tags is an inappropriate
> way to generate XML. That's natural. But it tends to be simpler than the
> alternatives and about as robust.
> 
>  Paul Prescod
> 

-- 
Harry George
hgg9140 at seanet.com


From tim at degree.ath.cx  Fri Jan 12 21:46:32 2001
From: tim at degree.ath.cx (Tim Hammerquist)
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 02:46:32 GMT
Subject: ASP + SQL Server + Time object problem
References: <93np4p$lm$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <slrn95vghv.aqj.tim@degree.ath.cx>

abramsjc at my-deja.com <abramsjc at my-deja.com> wrote:
> I'm using Python in ASP, and I have a recordset that returned a
> <time object at FFblah> object.
> 
> However I can't seem to convert this to an int or float.
> If I Responsd.Write it out it comes out correct, '3/31/00',
> but internally I can't seem to do anything with it.

When you say you Response.Write() it, do you mean:
	Response.Write(obj)

or
	Response.Write("Time: " + obj)

...  This is important.  The Response.Write() method can automatically
deal with objects like this, but in ASP languages other than VBScript
and JScript, you may have to dereference the data you're actually trying
to get.  I ran into this when I was writing my ASP.pm Perl module.  In
VBScript you can:

	Response.Write "Form data: " & Request.Form("data")

But in PerlScript, you have to:

	$Response->Write("Form data: ".$Request->Form("data")->{Item});

This is either Micro$oft's fault for making VBScript so mysteriously
simple, your the user's for trying to treat an actual COM object as a
string...  Probably a combination of both, since MS never feels the need
to document anything sufficiently (if at all).  ;)

Anyone in the newsgroup familiar with the object model of a "time
object"?

-- 
-Tim Hammerquist <timmy at cpan.org>
It does not matter how you meet Mister or Miss Right. The
mystery is what keeps two people together after they meet.
	-- from Next Stop Wonderland


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Tue Jan  9 07:39:23 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 13:39:23 +0100
Subject: Determine whether STDIN is gzipped
References: <3A5ADB84.194BAD4E@schlund.de>
Message-ID: <93f0sf020mm@news1.newsguy.com>

"Carsten Gaebler" <cg at schlund.de> wrote in message
news:3A5ADB84.194BAD4E at schlund.de...
> Hi there!
>
> I'm writing a program that reads its input data from STDIN. Now I'd like
> it to be able to determine whether the input data is gzipped or not and
    [snip]
> f = gzip.GzipFile("", "rb", fileobj=sys.stdin)
> try:
>     f.readline() # raises exception if not gzipped
> except:
>     f = sys.stdin
>
> while 1:
>     line = f.readline()
    [snip]
> The problem is that if STDIN is not gzipped I am missing the first few
> bytes of the first line in the while loop, if STDIN is gzipped I am even
> missing the whole first line, all because of the readline() in the try
> block. Unfortunately f.seek(0) doesn't work for STDIN. Any hints?

The part about "missing the whole first line if gzipped" is trivial
to remedy, of course -- change from the try onwards to:

    try:
        line = f.readline()
    except IOError:
        f = sys.stdin
        line = f.readline()

    while line:
        # processing
        line = f.readline()

(the except was changed just to be more specific -- except without
an exception type specification is rarely what one wants!).


The part about "missing the first few bytes" is also not all that
hard -- you just have to make sure you stash those 'first few bytes'
somewhere, while the GzipFile is reading them.  Specifically, 2
bytes should be needed; the gzip.GzipFile seems to do a first read
of 2 bytes (looking for the 'magic-number' confirming this is a
gzipped file), then others.  A little wrapping should suffice...:


class Wrap:
    def __init__(self,file):
        self.file = file
        self.data = None
    def read(self, *args):
        if self.data is None:
            self.data = self.file.read(*args)
            return self.data
        return self.file.read(*args)
    def tell(self, *args):
       return self.file.tell(*args)
    def seek(self, *args):
       return self.file.seek(*args)

wrapper = Wrap(sys.stdin)
f = gzip.GzipFile("", "rb", fileobj=wrapper)

try:
    line = f.readline() # raises exception if not gzipped
except IOError:
    f = sys.stdin
    line = wrapper.data + f.readline()

etc, as above.  As you see, a Wrap instance just delegates read, tell
and seek calls (the ones we expect from GzipFile's readline, after
a little experimentation) right to the file object it wraps,
*except* that, on the *very first* call to .read, it also stashes
away the returned data as its own instance-data attribute '.data'.

This should work.  Should performance prove unsatisfactory, we
might play dirtier tricks yet (a f.fileobj = wrapper.file right
after the first line in the try-body should get the wrapper out
of the way nicely, for example -- but that means _very_ heavy
coupling to gzip's implementation, so I wouldn't do it unless
measurements had demonstrated that the wrapper's overhead is
really critical to the overall application's performance; there
are less-heavily-coupling speedup alternatives to consider, too,
such as NOT reading one line at a time, but several!-).


Crucial issue -- IS this the "simplest thing that could
possibly work"?  I think that, roughly, it may be.  You have
indicated that you just can't afford reading _all_ of sys.stdin
into memory, so you will have to read it in pieces -- and the
very first piece will need to be examined twice in some cases
(by gzip, then by yourself if the file is NOT gzipped).  As
gzip calls self.fileobj.read, that call will somehow have to
save the data being read and returned (the first time only).

One could examine the magicnumber first, but then a wrapper
would be needed anyway to let gzip recover that data through
its own call to read; unless one wants to subclass the class
from gzip and override _read_gzip_header, but that doesn't
look like a particularly clever idea either -- it's a complex
method doing lots of clever stuff.  Wrapping the fileobject
one way or another would appear to be substantially simpler.


Alex





From haaserd at yahoo.com  Mon Jan 22 13:11:01 2001
From: haaserd at yahoo.com (haaserd)
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 11:11:01 -0700
Subject: .cgi or .cgp or .py or ?
Message-ID: <3A6C77B5.25B7DA13@yahoo.com>

Hi,
I am a newbie tinkering with python .cgi scripts on a
Windows machine.  I have it working by following the advice
at http://starship.python.net/crew/aaron_watters/pws.html
but am confused by the comment for saving .py for helper
modules.  Also another site suggested using the extension
.cgp for python.

There isn't any advice in cgi.py.  What is the recommended
naming convention?

TIA,

Roger Haase





From scarblac at pino.selwerd.nl  Mon Jan 29 05:41:29 2001
From: scarblac at pino.selwerd.nl (Remco Gerlich)
Date: 29 Jan 2001 10:41:29 GMT
Subject: "in" for dicts (was: Python 2.1 function attributes)
References: <mailman.980760334.2776.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrn97ahpp.a66.scarblac@pino.selwerd.nl>

Tim Peters <tim.one at home.com> wrote in comp.lang.python:
> Figures -- that's the one Guido likes least.  He dislikes xrange too.  He
> was forced into xreadlines by timing considerations (we couldn't match its
> performance cleanly, not with finite effort).  The only reason to like
> xreadlines is speed (which is reason enough!)

Huh? I like it because it's a very simple way to iterate over a file line by
line without having the whole file in memory. Simpler than the several
existing ways that get discussed over and over and over. 
And it's faster, too!!

-- 
Remco Gerlich


From sholden at holdenweb.com  Fri Jan 12 07:30:56 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 07:30:56 -0500
Subject: Web devel with python. Whats the best route?
References: <mailman.978910629.6814.python-list@python.org> <93cqvi0191h@news1.newsguy.com> <mailman.978985688.26505.python-list@python.org> <93dfft077p@news1.newsguy.com> <mailman.979000510.4052.python-list@python.org> <slrn95ltl8.45d.scarblac@pino.selwerd.nl> <93f4q7$ji4$1@newshost.accu.uu.nl> <BDv76.43676$_G5.6205644@typhoon.nyroc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <_RC76.5766$6i.80004@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com>

"Cliff Crawford" <cjc26 at nospam.cornell.edu> wrote in message
news:BDv76.43676$_G5.6205644 at typhoon.nyroc.rr.com...
> * Martijn Faassen <m.faassen at vet.uu.nl> menulis:
> | Remco Gerlich <scarblac at pino.selwerd.nl> wrote:
> | [knip]
> | > Precies. Dit is de Python groep, horen we niet allemaal Nederlands
> | > te praten?
> |
> | Natuurlijk horen we dat. Nederlands is de natuurlijke taal die het
> | best bij Python past, en je ziet Tim Peters de hele tijd verklaringen
> | voor Python geven omdat Guido Nederlands is, en zo. Ik heb wat
> | belangrijke sleutelwoorden in dit bericht gezet zodat zelfs Amerikanen
> | het idee hebben dat ik het ergens over heb. Dus, voorwaards met dat
> | Nederlands!
>
> InterTran translates the phrase "Tim Peters" as "[Tim] Godfather".  :)
>
>
> --
> Cliff Crawford               http://www.people.cornell.edu/pages/cjc26/
>                              print "Just another Python hacker"
>
So he *is* a member of the



From tong at aristotech.com  Fri Jan 12 20:07:58 2001
From: tong at aristotech.com (Siu-Tong Hui)
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 17:07:58 -0800
Subject: Can we in python code, catch exception generated by C++ pythonized 
 function?
References: <3A5A4545.661385AD@aristotech.com> <93gd8d$las$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <3A5FAA6E.ABA298AB@aristotech.com>

Thanks for all the responses.

We use SWIG to link from python to C++. Our highest level code is in
python.

What I tried was simply using:

try:
#        call to C++ pythonized function
except:
            print "Error: Abnormal Program Termination"

In the C++ code, I throw an exception. I couldn't catch it in the above
python code.

If I cannot catch exception in python, since we are using python as high
level command shell, we would have to put in exception control codes in
all pythonized C++ functions in order to have bullet-proof exception
protection. If I can catch exception in python, then I only need to do it
once in my highest level command shell in python.

Tong

Mark Hammond wrote:

> In article <3A5A4545.661385AD at aristotech.com>,
>   Siu-Tong Hui <tong at aristotech.com> wrote:
> > I tried and it won't. Anybody have any workaround for that? Any
> pointer
> > is appreciated. Thanks.
>
> I tried and it will.  Anybody have any further details for that?  Any
> pointer to exactly what you mean is appreciated. Thanks.
>
> Sent via Deja.com
> http://www.deja.com/



From emile at fenx.com  Sun Jan 28 10:09:23 2001
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 07:09:23 -0800
Subject: how do I run a script with a command line
References: <n4Wc6.5571$KP3.2194321@news3.rdc1.on.home.com>
Message-ID: <951cqc$f73cb$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>

Without knowing how you've got things installed, what you
can do is enter the fully qualified path name to the python
interpreter and your script.  On my win95 box, this looks
like:

[Windows 95] C:\>d:\python20\python d:\python20\test.py 1 2
3
['d:\\python20\\test.py', '1', '2', '3']

where d:\python20\test.py is:

import sys
print sys.argv

HTH

--

Emile van Sebille
emile at fenx.com
-------------------


"shaka" <fabrice.n at home.com> wrote in message
news:n4Wc6.5571$KP3.2194321 at news3.rdc1.on.home.com...
>
> It's my first time to use python. And I have win98. I
don't know how to run
> a script with the command line, it always come in
interactive mode.
> How do I input my arguments?
>
>




From sholden at holdenweb.com  Wed Jan 17 04:24:03 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 04:24:03 -0500
Subject: Python ActiveX Scripting Engine raising Unicode errors
References: <Wad96.5165$DI.56764@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <LAd96.32293$Q06.181526@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com>

"Steve Holden" <sholden at holdenweb.com> wrote in message
news:Wad96.5165$DI.56764 at e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com...
> Wonder if anyone can shed any light on this.
>
[nasty PWS ASP problem]
>
> On a related note, there is no pySQL.pyc anywhere on disk, and I'm
wondering
> if that's related.
>
This is too weird: I just renamed pySQL.py, checked that there is no pySQL.*
file *anywhere* on my disks, and the ASP page still claims to be seeing an
error in it!

Clearly some weird cacheing going on here.

Further research suggests that short string values in that field are handled
fine, but longer ones cause the problem I gave the traceback for.

never-had-a-bug-in-a-module-that-didn't-exist-before-ly y'rs  - steve




From tim.one at home.com  Sat Jan 20 17:35:15 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 17:35:15 -0500
Subject: I (don' ) will kill my Python
In-Reply-To: <94caq6$kij$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCGEBMIKAA.tim.one@home.com>

[rturpin at my-deja.com, recites various good reasons for why commercial
 users want to package Python with their apps]

> ...
> Once you start thinking about this, you quickly believe
> that the sensible thing is to create a new Python distribution
> on each platform, regardless of whether one already exists.

Yes, and that's what people *do*, too.  Nothing is stopping them.  To the
extent that the core Python distribution doesn't actively *help* them,
that's a reflection of how seldom anyone who goes through this pain
contributes their work back to the project.  BTW, there are many reasons for
people not giving the work back, such as:

    lack of time
    they didn't think it was hard enough to bother
    they thought it was sooo hard that they gain a competitive
        advantage by not sharing their work
    they had unique needs they don't think will make sense for
        others, and don't want to bother ripping that out or
        explaining it
    they had simple needs and don't want to bother trying to
        become all things to all people
    they're waiting for the Python Distutils SIG to solve it
    the corporate lawyers got in the way

Those are some of the reasons I've personally heard.

>> .. but they [businesses] can afford to hire Gordon.

> Is he job hunting?

Gordon's a contractor -- he's *always* job hunting <wink>.  To judge from
his relative silence lately, though, he's currently got more business than
he can handle.  In the meantime, there's also nothing stopping anyone who
cares from taking his installer work and updating it to 2.0 (or, come
Monday, 2.1a1).  Also nothing stopping people from looking at how, e.g.,
PythonWorks-- or even PySol --package Python, and copying their schemes.

Heck, I have a friend who built a highly specialized Python app for his
father, and packaged it all up in one afternoon, starting with *no*
knowledge of how Python is structured:  he just kept copying Python library
files into a work directory until the ImportErrors stopped.  Low tech but
effective, and it probably would have taken him just as long to figure out
how to *use* a all-things-to-all-people packaging tool.

it's-not-like-a-business-ships-a-new-release-60-times-each-day-ly y'rs
    - tim




From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Wed Jan 24 03:57:03 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 09:57:03 +0100
Subject: How do I know all thrown exceptions of a function?
References: <B43D149A9AB2D411971300B0D03D7E8B0FBE0D@natasha.auslabs.avaya.com>
Message-ID: <005201c085e3$a6794650$102b2bc1@cadlab.it>

"Delaney, Timothy" <tdelaney at avaya.com> writes:
    [snip]
> For a start, you shouldn't ahve to declare anything if you guarantee that
> nothing happens. Lack of declaration should be "nothing happens".

Tut-tut.  "Explicit is better than implicit"!

In Python, if you want to write a statement in which "nothing happens",
you DO have to *explicitly* say that:
    pass
in sharp contrast with other languages, such as C++, where you don't
have to write anything to guarantee that nothing happens (the empty
string is the empty statement).

Me, I've grown to like this *A LOT*.  Ideally, "nothing being said"
could be framed as an ambiguous situation, and lead to a compile time
error; however, when needed for pragmatical reasons (some interpretation
having overwhelming frequency; or, backwards compatibility), one can
and does bend that (Python being highly pragmatic!).

Here, I definitely don't think that "I ensure this function never
raises any exception" is "of overwhelming frequency" -- looks like
a very strong guarantee to me, and one which should DEFINITELY not
be "the default".  Maybe in the abstract there should be NO default
and any function not decorated with 'raise nothing', 'raise any',
'raise <explicit list>', etc, should not compile; but that's pretty
unclear -- so I have absolutely no heartbreak over 'raise any'
being made the default, and keeping backwards compatibility.


> Argh! From a practical viewpoint, this is the way to do it, but from an
> aesthetic viewpoint ...

Clearly, aesthetic is in the eye of the beholder!  To me, this
seems just a special case of optional type-annotation: failing
to annotate SHOULD mean "and I'm not providing ANY information
about what types this thing here can be" -- both for compatibility
with existing Python, AND because it keeps the RAD, uncluttered,
fast-to-write-and-easy-to-read, nature of our beloved language;
one then goes back and OPTIONALLY AND SELECTIVELY annotates "SOME
portions to taste" with type information, including "this function
always returns a sequence" or "this function never raises any
exception".

Pragmatics and aesthetics are thus quite aligned here, from my
personal viewpoint.


Alex





From tismer at tismer.com  Wed Jan 31 09:26:28 2001
From: tismer at tismer.com (Christian Tismer)
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 16:26:28 +0200
Subject: Stackless Python in Korea
Message-ID: <3A782094.21963D12@tismer.com>

The Python Korea Users Group does its second Python Seminar on
Friday, February 2nd.
The seminar is held at Soong-Shil University in Seoul, South Korea.
Here is the schedule, partially readable. :-)
http://users.python.or.kr:9080/PyKUG/Seminar/02ndSeminar/schedule

Over 400 people have registered for the seminar, and a few hundred
more are expected at the site. Isn't that great?

At 15:20 - 16:05 there is a session on Stackless Python, held
by Changjune Kim (mailto:junaftnoon at yahoo.com), which I will
participate and add a little talk and slides on tech aspects,
future plans and schedules, and some more.
This is even greater. I heared of this session on Stackless
by chance yesterday and spontaneously decided to join.

I will stay in Seoul until Sunday 4th, noon. Just in case
somebody would like to meet me on Saturday 3rd, drop me a note
at the Seoul Palace Hotel.

cheers - chris

-- 
Christian Tismer             :^)   <mailto:tismer at tismer.com>
Mission Impossible 5oftware  :     Have a break! Take a ride on Python's
Kaunstr. 26                  :    *Starship* http://starship.python.net
14163 Berlin                 :     PGP key -> http://wwwkeys.pgp.net
PGP Fingerprint       E182 71C7 1A9D 66E9 9D15  D3CC D4D7 93E2 1FAE F6DF
     where do you want to jump today?   http://www.stackless.com



From cobrien at Radix.Net  Tue Jan  9 09:02:00 2001
From: cobrien at Radix.Net (Cary O'Brien)
Date: 9 Jan 2001 09:02:00 -0500
Subject: Migrating to perl?
References: <mailman.978665345.25536.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <93f5ko$o4e$1@saltmine.radix.net>

In article <mailman.978665345.25536.python-list at python.org>,
Tim Peters <tim.one at home.com> wrote:
>[Joel Ricker]
>> I'm thinking of moving from perl to python and I was looking for
>> opinions on the difference.
[snip]
>> Are the modules and add-ons as good as perl (ie, Database --
>> I'm primarily interested in MySQL, CGI, Graphics).
>
>I haven't done any of that stuff in Python; must leave for someone else.
>

I'll bite.

I know you didn't ask about TCL, but it makes the argument more
balanced.

The range of extension packages for Python is between that of Perl
and TCL. Perl has a wider range of extensions, TCL has a smaller
range of extensions.  Python has more that come with the standard
distribution, but Perl has a great public-access setup for modules
(Comperhensive Perl Archive Network - CPAN).  It can be hard to
find Python modules (especially after the starship crash), but not
as hard to find as TCL modules.

As for quality, my feeling is that Perl and Python modules are of
the same high quality.  TCL modules fall behind, and are often
unmaintained and out-of-date.  There are some exceptions, such
as the way-cool scotty package for doing SNMP with TCL.  In this
case "quality" includes ease-of-building, documentation, and 
run-time features.

All languages have good support for the major databases [1].

As for CGI, All three languages have both simple CGI modules and big,
complex systems for web sites, like Mason (perl), Zope (Python (perl
coming)) and AOLServer (TCL).

Did I make any mistakes?

-- cary

[1] Check out PostgreSQL before you decide on MySQL.  A python
    interface comes with it.



From flor_pino at hotmail.com  Sun Jan 14 11:58:52 2001
From: flor_pino at hotmail.com (floR)
Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 17:58:52 +0100
Subject: how do i disable buffered output, like Perl's '$|=1'?
Message-ID: <979490967.23219.0.pluto.d4ee691b@news.demon.nl>

I can't find anywhere how I can disable 'buffered output', or whatever it is
called.
In Perl, you simply say $|=1, but in Python?
Can anyone help me?

TIA,
Rolf Raven




From charlottwilliams at mediaone.net  Sun Jan  7 02:39:18 2001
From: charlottwilliams at mediaone.net (Charlotte Williams)
Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2001 07:39:18 GMT
Subject: Thank you (was Re: Should I learn Python or Java?)
References: <HEO56.5504$y9.2881293@typhoon.we.rr.com>
Message-ID: <G2V56.5826$y9.3184141@typhoon.we.rr.com>

Thank you, everyone, for all your help.  If indeed Python is everything you
say it is, it would seem a worth while investment in time to learn.  I'll
try coding some in Python and see how the language "feels."

David Williams




From grey at despair.rpglink.com  Tue Jan 23 16:56:51 2001
From: grey at despair.rpglink.com (Steve Lamb)
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 21:56:51 -0000
Subject: Why is "as" not a keyword?
References: <3A679717.1328@loop.com> <slrn96f8a7.il3.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <B6910070.93AB%bobhicks@adelphia.net> <p6q3deaufu5.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <slrn96rvh3.v4h.grey@teleute.dmiyu.org>

On 23 Jan 2001 22:19:14 +0100, Martin von Loewis
<loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de> wrote:
>As it turns out, IDLE is updated without the keyword list being changed.

>"as" is not a keyword, it just has a special meaning in the import
>statement.

    Which is why I said the person's beef is with the editor or IDE, not with
Python itself.  If he wants as to be highlighted that is 100% the perview of
the editor.

-- 
         Steve C. Lamb         | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your
         ICQ: 5107343          | main connection to the switchboard of souls.
-------------------------------+---------------------------------------------


From gregj at pobox.com  Sun Jan  7 18:43:46 2001
From: gregj at pobox.com (Greg Jorgensen)
Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2001 23:43:46 GMT
Subject: Thank you (was Re: Should I learn Python or Java?)
References: <HEO56.5504$y9.2881293@typhoon.we.rr.com> <G2V56.5826$y9.3184141@typhoon.we.rr.com> <mailman.978901087.32745.python-list@python.org> <kulmsnjava.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>
Message-ID: <Sa766.240940$U46.7583027@news1.sttls1.wa.home.com>

"Erno Kuusela" <erno-news at erno.iki.fi> wrote in message
news:kulmsnjava.fsf at lasipalatsi.fi...
> actually it's about the same age, java is from around 1991, iirc.

Sun released Java in late 1995. A small number of developers had access to
APIs and tools earlier in the year. The precursor to Java, which was named
Oak, was around earlier, but only known to a few people. The first
commercial Java tools appeared in early- to mid-1996.

--
Greg Jorgensen
PDXperts
Portland, Oregon, USA
gregj at pobox.com




From NOSPAM at pacificnet.net  Thu Jan 18 22:55:37 2001
From: NOSPAM at pacificnet.net (Ian L)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 03:55:37 GMT
Subject: generating simple graphs and chart images in python
References: <aVK96.3220$tD2.216083@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <A6N96.9999$Sl.519684@iad-read.news.verio.net>
Message-ID: <ZUO96.4871$tD2.302420@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>

thanks for the sample code. I'll look at it and give it a try.

thanks again


"Doug Fort" <dougfort at downright.com> wrote in message
news:A6N96.9999$Sl.519684 at iad-read.news.verio.net...
> We use PIL (Python Imaging Library) from http://www.secretlabs.com
>
> I have attached our Graph base class and the PyUnit test file as an
example
> of a simple graph.
>
> --
> Doug Fort
> Senior Meat Manager
> Downright Software LLC
> doug.fort at downright.com
>
> "Ian L" <NOSPAM at pacificnet.net> wrote in message
> news:aVK96.3220$tD2.216083 at newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
> > Hey,
> >
> > Could anyone point me in the right direction as to how i can generate
some
> > simple graphs dynamically in python? I want to make something like a bar
> > graph, or line graph?
> >
> >
>
>
>




From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Wed Jan 24 05:28:12 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 11:28:12 +0100
Subject: Count and replacing strings a texfile
References: <94i9ft$apq$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <94llph$8dl$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <94mans01r5p@news2.newsguy.com>

"Greg Jorgensen" <gregj at pobox.com> wrote in message
news:94llph$8dl$1 at nnrp1.deja.com...
> Try this:
>
> ----
> # read all text from the file
> f = open(filename, "r")
> s = f.read()
> f.close()
>
> # split text into a list at every occurence of %id%
> t = s.split("%id%")
> n = len(t)      # number of list elements
> result = s[0]   # start with first element in list
> # iterate over list, appending counter and next text chunk
> for i in range(1,n):
>         result += str(i) + s[i]
>
> print "%s occurences replaced" % (n-1)
> print result

I like this general approach better than the RE-based
ones; however, building up the 'result' string by
successive concatenations is apt to be pretty slow --
remember the typical start string was said to be over
120k and to contain 'several' occurrences of '%id%'.

In general, building a big string by successive + or
+= of many small pieces is O(N squared).

A potentially better variation, roughly O(N)...:

def numberIDstring(input_string):
    input_pieces = input_string.split('%id%')
    pieces_number = len(input_pieces)
    output_pieces = ['']*(pieces_number*2-1)
    output_pieces[0] = input_pieces[0]
    for i in range(1,pieces_number):
        output_pieces[i+i] = input_pieces[i]
        output_pieces[i+i-1] = str(i)
    return ''.join(output_pieces)


It takes some reflection (and, even better, some
testing of the boundary cases!!!) to check this
works for input-strings containing %id% at start,
at end, or two or three of them right next to
each other, of course -- but then, one MUST, of
course, ALWAYS test what one writes (and MOST
particularly test boundary/anomalous cases!!!).

Which leads me right into a digression about
unit-testing, a subject which is discussed FAR
too rarely in proportion to its importance...!


A decent unit-test here might be something like
(assuming one has no unit-testing framework in
use -- it WOULD be much better to use one!!!):

def testNumberIDstring():
    testData = (
        ('', ''),      # no input -> no output
        ('xy','xy'),   # no IDs -> no change
        ('%id%','1'),  # just an ID
        ('%id%%id%', '12'),   # just two IDs
        ('xy%id%', 'xy1'),
        ('%id%xy', '1xy'),
        ('xy%id%zt', 'xy1zt'),
        ('%id%xy%id%', '1xy2'),
        ('ax%id%by%id%cz', 'ax1by2cz'),
    )
    errors = 0
    tests = 0
    for input, expected in testData:
        tests += 1
        output = numberIDstring(input)
        if output!=expected:
            errors += 1
            reportTestFailure(tests, errors,
                input, expected, output,
                "numberIDstring")
    if errors==0:
        reportSuccess(tests,
                "numberIDstring")
    else:
        reportFailures(tests, errors,
                "numberIDstring")


Yep, there *IS* a lot of code in such a special
purpose test -- which is why using a unit
testing framework is SO useful: by greatly
reducing the repetitious work of writing test
code, it correspondingly motivates you to do
more and better unit testing!

Personally, I find that Tim Peters' deliciously
simple "doctest.py" framework matches A LOT of
my typical unit-testing needs, and really minimizes
my work in constructing unit-test suites.  But
tastes and needs vary, and one might be well
advised to look around at other Python unit test
frameworks -- each has some strong point and
might be just the ticket for YOUR own use!-)


Alex





From claird at starbase.neosoft.com  Thu Jan 25 16:37:25 2001
From: claird at starbase.neosoft.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: 25 Jan 2001 15:37:25 -0600
Subject: Tkinter vs wxPython: your opinions?
References: <3A6F899F.E164F628@home.com> <hvZb6.2156$_8.33280@news1.rdc1.bc.home.com> <slrn9710o1.73.cerutti@fiad06.norwich.edu>
Message-ID: <3A3AF7F970D390FB.9516A3492818FA7E.F86BC486C21F50E6@lp.airnews.net>

In article <slrn9710o1.73.cerutti at fiad06.norwich.edu>,
Neil Cerutti <cerutti at together.net> wrote:
			.
			.
			.
>Tkinter's 'pack' layout manager is super easy to use, and with
>some practice and the excellent documentation, powerful. wxPython
>seems to have a couple of layout managers, but how they should be
>used is a mystery. I've been forced to place everything pixel by
>pixel so far.
It's very typical that Tkinter people who
try moving to other toolkits blanch and
retch at the "placing" they have to do.
Tkinter layout management is addictive.
			.
		[other apt and
		interesting points]
			.
			.
>wxPython has access to more standard interface dialogs, though
>Tkinter has a fair number, too. The wxPython GUI code is going to
>be quite a bit shorter. It would probably lengthen if I started
>using a layout manager.
This paragraph lost me.  Are you saying
your Tkinter source is longer because you
have to construct for yourself dialogues
which are standard in wxPython?  Are you
further saying that using a layout manager
in wxPython is *more* verbose than pixel
placement in wxPython?
			.
			.
			.
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at NeoSoft.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://starbase.neosoft.com/~claird/home.html


From donn at oz.net  Fri Jan  5 01:49:20 2001
From: donn at oz.net (Donn Cave)
Date: 5 Jan 2001 06:49:20 GMT
Subject: Calling an application from inside a python script Take 1
References: <a9V46.371$7k5.2218@newsfeed.slurp.net>
Message-ID: <933qpg$nk$0@216.39.151.169>

Quoth "Chris Watson" <scanner at jurai.net>:

| I *just* started getting into learning python.
| I am currently working on a menu'ing system to keep non admin people from
| goofing things up on some FreeBSD servers in a datacenter. I have very
| little BG in coding. My menu system has a section for allowing the admins
| to edit the various config files for different servers. For instance the
| first python script which I am doing prompts the user for a hostname of
| the server that apache is running on. It will save that hostname in the
| variable host.
|
| host = raw_input("Enter a hostname: ");
|
| Then I want to pass the $host variable to ssh. So it does something like
| this:
|
| ssh -l root $host vi /usr/local/etc/apache.conf
|
| Which will allow the tech to edit the web servers config file. But he
| wont need to know ssh, or or anything else. My long winded question is
| how do I get python to call an external application?
|
| If someone could point me in the right direction I would really
| appreciate it. Thanks for your time!

The easiest thing to write is

    import os
    ...
    os.system('ssh -l root %s vi /usr/local/etc/apache.conf' % host)


It's also about as dangerous as anything you can do in Python.  It
puts you completely at the mercy of whoever typed in that text at
the "Enter a hostname: " prompt.  Intentionally or not, a space
or a semi-colon etc. could yield very different results than you
intend.

Luckily, with Python 2.0 we're getting to the point where you can
do this in a safer way without writing all the fork & exec stuff
yourself.  The function, os.spawnv(), is apparently here for
compatibility with Windows!  but it seems to be what we need;
you can look at the os module to see how it works if you want.

    import os
    os.spawnv(os.P_WAIT, '/usr/local/bin/ssh', ('ssh', '-l', 'root',
        host, 'vi', '/usr/local/etc/apache.conf'))

That last argument is a tuple of the argument list to ssh, starting
with argv[0].  In the system() function, we would eventually invoke
the shell to parse the string into these arguments, and that's where
the unexpected metacharacters wreak their havoc.  By passing the
arguments directly to the ssh process, we avoid that.

Now, for this particular command, ssh, you might as well fold the
'vi' and the file together, because ssh is going to do that for
the remote shell to parse back out.  So don't think you can get
a sanitary calculated argument list through to the remote shell -
that can't happen.  Your example is OK, because the remote command
is constant.

	Donn Cave, donn at oz.net


From neelk at alum.mit.edu  Tue Jan  2 20:15:16 2001
From: neelk at alum.mit.edu (Neelakantan Krishnaswami)
Date: 3 Jan 2001 01:15:16 GMT
Subject: Equivalent of Java 'throws'
References: <fos25t4doa37drmctilvnml351l30bbub4@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <slrn95535o.m8a.neelk@alum.mit.edu>

On Mon, 01 Jan 2001 22:32:23 -0800, Daniel Klein <danielk at aracnet.com> wrote:
> Here's another 'is there a Pythonic way to do this' question...
>
> In Java, you can specify a 'throws' to tell a client using your
> methods of your class that they must have an exception handler. This
> appears to be checked when the client is compiled.
>
> I've read thru the reference materials concerning exceptions and
> this one's got me stumped.  Is there any way in Python to do this? I
> suspect there isn't since Python is dynamically typed.

Put a note in the docstring. If you don't write docstrings, get in the
habit! They are one of the most useful little features of Python.


Neel


From mcalla at home.com  Thu Jan 11 17:37:39 2001
From: mcalla at home.com (Mike Callahan)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 22:37:39 GMT
Subject: Minor problem with IDLE
Message-ID: <TAq76.157262$iy3.36215627@news1.rdc1.tn.home.com>

Whenever I use IDLE and Python 2.0 (Win98) to run a Tkinter script, and
exception occurs, I see the exception, but IDLE tends to freeze. I usually
have to stop it by using the task manager. In the old Python 1.52 days, I
would keep a dos window open and use IDLE as an editor which worked well
when debugging tkinter scripts. But with Python 2.0, the dos window freezes
also whenever an exception occurs. Anybody have any ideas?

Mike





From bobhicks at adelphia.net  Fri Jan 26 15:42:51 2001
From: bobhicks at adelphia.net (Robert L Hicks)
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 20:42:51 GMT
Subject: Tkinter vs wxPython: your opinions?
References: <3A6F899F.E164F628@home.com> <hvZb6.2156$_8.33280@news1.rdc1.bc.home.com> <slrn9710o1.73.cerutti@fiad06.norwich.edu> <slrn971716.ums.zeitlin@seth.lpthe.jussieu.fr>
Message-ID: <B6974B42.9634%bobhicks@adelphia.net>

 
> On 25 Jan 2001 19:41:19 GMT, Neil Cerutti <cerutti at together.net> wrote:
>> The current documentation for Tkinter is much better than what is
>> available for wxPython.
> 
> This is very strange. Where is good documentation for Tkinter to be found?
> When I had tried to learn using it (this was 5 years ago, true) I couldn't
> find any documentation at all. wxWindows documentation is probably what
> has personally attracted me so much to it.

Python and Tkinter Programming by John Grayson is a fantastic Tkinter
resource. 

Fredrik Lundh has a Tkinter tutorial up as well which is very good and gets
better with time.


>> wxPython's documentation seems to be in the state Tkinter's was
>> back when all there was was the _Tkinter life preserver_.
> 
> I still wonder what documentation are you speaking of? Do you mean wxWindows
> documentation (because this is what you should use, it has special python
> notes in it but globally it's the same set of docs) or something else?

It has Python notes yes...but if you don't have a C++ background to figure
out the original wxWindows part it makes it kind of rough. I know I have
tried it.

The documentation *should* show you how to do it in wxPython not in
wxWindows with Python notation.

Of course what widget set you use is like asking someone Perl or Python or
Emacs or Vi.  : )

-- 
<BH />

"If I spelled your name wrong just consider that I have changed your name to
protect the innocent or some such rot."



From rjroy at takingcontrol.com  Sun Jan  7 10:48:38 2001
From: rjroy at takingcontrol.com (Robert Roy)
Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2001 15:48:38 GMT
Subject: Thank you (was Re: Should I learn Python or Java?)
References: <HEO56.5504$y9.2881293@typhoon.we.rr.com> <G2V56.5826$y9.3184141@typhoon.we.rr.com>
Message-ID: <3a588c4a.81068406@news1.on.sympatico.ca>

On Sun, 07 Jan 2001 07:39:18 GMT, "Charlotte Williams"
<charlottwilliams at mediaone.net> wrote:

>Thank you, everyone, for all your help.  If indeed Python is everything you
>say it is, it would seem a worth while investment in time to learn.  I'll
>try coding some in Python and see how the language "feels."
>
>David Williams
>
I am sure you will enjoy using Python.

The tutorials that come with Python are ok. There is a series of
tutorials on earthweb which seems good too though I have only looked
at them briefly. They are in reverse order btw so start from the
bottom.

http://www.earthweb.com/dlink.index-jhtml.72.1390.-.0.jhtml

The  Vaults of Parnassus has a page that lists training resources:

http://www.vex.net/parnassus/apyllo.py/935043691.636055170


Good luck!
Bob


From claird at starbase.neosoft.com  Wed Jan 24 18:32:30 2001
From: claird at starbase.neosoft.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: 24 Jan 2001 17:32:30 -0600
Subject: what GUI, please advise
References: <3A6F18F2.536F27FE@crepido.com> <mailman.980360668.7701.python-list@python.org> <7DA74694B63ED42A.83CB11913E3910C5.C8BE5B392AC1AC5C@lp.airnews.net> <mailman.980378246.26304.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <CDB31EB6FBE52A77.DD693053330FF80D.C9225379711276A9@lp.airnews.net>

In article <mailman.980378246.26304.python-list at python.org>,
D-Man  <dsh8290 at rit.edu> wrote:
>
>(steering the discussion in my direction ...)
>
>What is the general feeling of GTK+ vs. wxWindows?
			.
			.
			.
Does <URL:
http://www.sunworld.com/unixinsideronline/swol-12-2000/swol-1218-wxwindows.html
>
help?
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at NeoSoft.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://starbase.neosoft.com/~claird/home.html


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sun Jan 28 04:26:03 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 10:26:03 +0100
Subject: invalid-token syntax hook (was Re: Hack request: rational numbers)
References: <mailman.980590234.29036.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <950vg1026tu@news2.newsguy.com>

"Tim Peters" <tim.one at home.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.980590234.29036.python-list at python.org...
    [snip]
> That said, I believe your only hope of getting new literal syntax is to
> embed it in a general proposal.  Some notation for rational literals is
just
> one of an unbounded number of similar desires.  Without a general scheme
for

What I was thinking, too.  So what about the "invalid-token syntax
error hook" idea -- whenever the compiler is about to raise a
SyntaxError because of an invalid token ('3r','@@x',etc), if
sys.invalidTokenHook (or something of that ilk) is set to some
callable, that callable is invoked, passed the invalid-token string,
and given a chance to either return None (confirming that, yes, it
IS a syntax error) or a tuple (possibly empty or singleton) of tokens
to be used instead.

Not sure how (if?) a module specifies what hook it wants to
be set during its own compilation -- perhaps it can't, in which
case a module whose source contains syntactically invalid
tokens can only be compiled after 'something else' has set
the (global?) hook 'appropriately'.

No, doesn't look like a necessarily great idea to me, either.

It allows a very modest amount of syntax extension (token
level only -- really nothing more than the sugariest kind)
and modules using it become not-understandable unless
what hook they use is known/documented.  At least it does
not allow _altering_ syntax in general (as only currently
invalid tokens would ever been passed to the hook), but,
it _would_ make it harder or impossibly to extent this
level of syntax in the future (a currently-invalid token could
not become valid in the future without risking a breakage
to some existing hook).

Consider it a strawman just to try and fathom if there IS
some halfway-good general idea for extensibility...


Alex





From amk at mira.erols.com  Sun Jan 28 12:55:12 2001
From: amk at mira.erols.com (A.M. Kuchling)
Date: 28 Jan 2001 17:55:12 GMT
Subject: Interested in a Crypto-SIG?
References: <3A72C8A3.C4B4D69A@stroeder.com> <slrn97650f.i1.amk@mira.erols.com> <3A731F26.15461A27@stroeder.com>
Message-ID: <slrn978o29.gn.amk@mira.erols.com>

On Sat, 27 Jan 2001 20:19:02 +0100, 
	Michael Str?der <michael at stroeder.com> wrote:
><P>The list is hosted inside the US, as are its archives, so
>to avoid falling afoul of the US export restrictions, it's
>recommended that postings not contain complete programs or modules. 
>
>This does not attract me very much.

Given the relaxing of US export laws last year, this text is really no
longer necessary, and I should edit the list description accordingly.
(Shows how much time I spend on crypto these days...)  

In any case, making something a SIG as opposed to just a mailing list
will not magically free up more of people's time to work on the SIG's
deliverable.  SIGs have sputtered along without produced much of value
before; cases in point include the import-sig, locator-sig, plot-sig,
and types-sig, which don't seem to have altered the Python landscape
much.

--amk


From glt at e-pack.net  Mon Jan 22 05:57:37 2001
From: glt at e-pack.net (Gilles Lenfant)
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 11:57:37 +0100
Subject: Editor font in IDLE (Linux)
Message-ID: <3A6C1221.9000302@e-pack.net>

Hi,

There's a hint in the EditorWindow module for changing the default font
and size for Win32 users.
What can a Linux IDLE user do to change the extreme small and ugly font 
used in
IDLE (0.5) ?

TIA

Gilles



From thomas at xs4all.net  Tue Jan 30 08:16:43 2001
From: thomas at xs4all.net (Thomas Wouters)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 14:16:43 +0100
Subject: slow joinings of strings
In-Reply-To: <87k87dnr77.fsf@losthighway.ahoj.pl>; from kbryd@losthighway._nospam_eu.org on Tue, Jan 30, 2001 at 01:46:04PM +0100
References: <87ofwpnrpp.fsf@losthighway.ahoj.pl> <3A76B5F4.A0D1E117@schlund.de> <87k87dnr77.fsf@losthighway.ahoj.pl>
Message-ID: <20010130141643.G962@xs4all.nl>

On Tue, Jan 30, 2001 at 01:46:04PM +0100, Karol Bryd wrote:
> > This should be faster:

> > s = open(file, 'r').read()

> Ok, this works fine as long as I want to read whole file at once,
> but in my case, unfortunately, I need to read file part by part
> (the file is RFC822 message, and I want to extract some MIME parts
> from it).

Have you considered using the rfc822 module, or one of the MIME-parsing
packages ? There's 'mimetools' in the standard library, there's mimectl as a
separate module (http://starship.python.net/~arcege/modules/) and Barry
Warsaw started work on something he has given the rather uninspiring name
'mimelib': http://barry.wooz.org/software/pyware.html

-- 
Thomas Wouters <thomas at xs4all.net>

Hi! I'm a .signature virus! copy me into your .signature file to help me spread!



From mjackson at wc.eso.mc.xerox.com  Thu Jan  4 20:38:07 2001
From: mjackson at wc.eso.mc.xerox.com (Mark Jackson)
Date: 5 Jan 2001 01:38:07 GMT
Subject: why no "do : until"?
References: <slrn95a2u4.hp.amk@207-172-36-136.s136.tnt6.ann.va.dialup.rcn.com>
Message-ID: <9338hv$b24$1@news.wrc.xerox.com>

amk at mira.erols.com (A.M. Kuchling) writes:

> Yes.  I've argued in the past that we should just leave Python's
> syntax alone; all the proposed changes usually add 1% more
> functionality and aren't worth the pain.  Leave fancy changes to the
> hypothetical Python3K or some other future descendent of Python, and
> just work on the infrastructure around the language.

I agree.  I believe I've noticed a decrease in the readability of
posted code since 2.0 came in.  Anyone for a PEP on, say, "Stopping the
Rot?" :-)

-- 
Mark Jackson - http://www.alumni.caltech.edu/~mjackson
	The power of accurate observation is frequently called
	cynicism by those who don't have it.
			- George Bernard Shaw




From rol9999 at attglobal.net  Sat Jan 20 20:38:44 2001
From: rol9999 at attglobal.net (Roland Schlenker)
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 20:38:44 -0500
Subject: Determining if a superclass is being initialized from a derived 
 class
References: <mailman.980036124.10498.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3A6A3DA4.1A323BCF@attglobal.net>

Timothy Grant wrote:
> 
> Hi folk,
> 
> I have a superclass that I'm using for a project. The superclass has a
> debugging function that is called whenever the command line option --debug
> is used.
> 
> I have run into a situation where I need to subclass the superclass. I want
> access to the debugging information, but not until after the subclass is
> fully initialized.
> 
> class superclass:
>         def __init__(self):
>                 self.a = 1
>                 self.b = 2
>                 if self.debug:
>                         self.dodebug()
>         def dodebug():
>                 print self.a
>                 print self.b
> 
> class subclass(superclass):
>         def __init__(self):
>                 superclass.__init__(self)
> 
>                 self.a = 2
>                 self.b = 4
> 
>                 if self.debug:
>                         self.dodebug()
> 
> In the above, dodebug() is called twice. I would like to only call it the
> second time.

DEBUG = 1

class superclass:
    def __init__(self):
        self.debug = DEBUG
        self.a = 1
        self.b = 2
        if self.debug:
            self.dodebug()

    def dodebug(self):
        print self.a
        print self.b

class subclass(superclass):
    def __init__(self):
        superclass.__init__(self)
        self.debug = DEBUG
        self.a = 2
        self.b = 4

        if self.debug:
            superclass.dodebug(self)

    def dodebug(self):
        pass

Will this work for you?

Roland Schlenker


From th_nichols at my-deja.com  Sun Jan 21 12:41:39 2001
From: th_nichols at my-deja.com (th_nichols at my-deja.com)
Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 17:41:39 GMT
Subject: Using Pythonware (PY20)
Message-ID: <94f70i$or9$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

I have installed Pythonware (py20) in Windows 2000 Professional and I'm
unable to use its scripts to display .gif and .jpg files correctly.
The demo script, viewer.py, runs without error, but the images it
displays are incorrect.  I can tell that the .jpg image came from the
file I'm trying to display, but only just.

Has anyone else installed py20 under Windows 2000?  Did it work for
you?  Any thoughts?

Thanks,

Tom Nichols


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From paulp at ActiveState.com  Sun Jan 21 14:03:41 2001
From: paulp at ActiveState.com (Paul Prescod)
Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 11:03:41 -0800
Subject: BeOpen 2.0 vs ActiveState?
References: <6176E3D8E36FD111B58900805FA7E0F80CCF62F5@mcnc-mdm1-ex01> <mailman.979948551.14085.python-list@python.org> <slrn96hpq1.1qg.tim@degree.ath.cx>
Message-ID: <3A6B328D.F81765C1@ActiveState.com>

Tim Hammerquist wrote:
> 
> ...
> > And yet Python and Perl were both created and developed for years without
> license restrictions.  Why does it cost so much more for your
> company to slap its name on someone else's creation than it does for
> someone to develop it from scratch in the first place?

Tim Peters has answered better than I could have (he's good at that).
I'll take up some of the details with you in email. The only other thing
I'll add is that Tim's opinions seem to be shared by Guido and Larry
Wall (in the Perl world). Both consider ActiveState an important ally
taking Python and Perl places that the languages would not otherwise
go...

 Paul Prescod



From aahz at panix.com  Sat Jan 20 11:50:11 2001
From: aahz at panix.com (Aahz Maruch)
Date: 20 Jan 2001 08:50:11 -0800
Subject: FreeThreading Python?
References: <mailman.980006458.21501.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <94cfk3$doi$1@panix6.panix.com>

In article <mailman.980006458.21501.python-list at python.org>,
Steve Spicklemire  <steve at spvi.com> wrote:
>
>At one time in the distant past I remember some patches from Greg Stein
>(I think) that partially/mostly? allowed python to run a lot more code
>free of the dreaded Global Interpreter Lock (GIL).  I'm guessing what
>he did (I never used, or even examined, these patches since I didn't
>have access to a system where they would have helped me... much). Now
>that multiprocessor machines are becoming much more commonplace, is
>there any effort aimed at updating these patches, or 'fixing' the GIL
>thingy so that mere mortals might be able to write pure python code
>that can totally swamp 6 processors at the same time? ;-)

Most applications are at least partially I/O-bound; threading such
applications tends to side-step the GIL pretty well.
-- 
                      --- Aahz (Copyright 2001 by aahz at pobox.com)

Androgynous poly kinky vanilla queer het    <*>     http://www.rahul.net/aahz/
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6

I guess I mostly see Life [tm] as a process of closing doors that you
might want to go through.  --Aahz


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Tue Jan 23 07:34:16 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 13:34:16 +0100
Subject: Python in a COM?
References: <pIcb6.714$6a.35057@news.siol.net>
Message-ID: <94jto401fv9@news1.newsguy.com>

"Mitja Semolic" <mitjase at hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:pIcb6.714$6a.35057 at news.siol.net...
> Instead of using the pythonxx.dll is there a python implemented in COM
> object?

Python can implement COM objects, but not "instead of"
python20.dll etc -- the COM interfaces are built "on
top of" python20.dll (by .pyd python-extension DLL's).

Still, this is a deployment detail.  If you for
example instantiate a Microsoft Script-Control OCX
(progid "ScriptControl") and set its Language property
to the string "Python" (on a Win32 machine where
Python AND the win32all extensions are installed
correctly; e.g., an ActiveState Python build for
Win32 does that for you), you'll get a usable COM
(ActiveScripting) instance of Python (you can now
pump source code into it with AddCode, evaluate
expressions, execute statements, ..., all with the
suitable methods of ScriptControl).

This, for example, offers the easiest way to get a
Python interpreter instance up for use from an
application written in (e.g.) Visual Basic, Delphi,
etc (so you can _script_ in Python, no matter what
language most of your code is in; of course, you'll
also have to _expose_ any 'callbacks', that the script
may make into your application-code, as a COM object
model of the application [and use AddObject] -- that
is part of the game of using ActiveScripting).


Why do you care if the various DLL's that come up
when you do that are all "COM objects", or pull up
other non-COM DLL's (such as python20.dll) in their
turn?  After all, most "COM objects" you use _do_
in turn use some non-COM DLL's (MSVCRT.DLL, the MFC
ones, the Delphi ones, the VB ones, depending) --
and yet you don't really care much about that.


Alex





From erno-news at erno.iki.fi  Thu Jan 25 11:56:47 2001
From: erno-news at erno.iki.fi (Erno Kuusela)
Date: 25 Jan 2001 18:56:47 +0200
Subject: Python and postgreSQL ??
References: <slrn96uhcq.1u1.isard@localhost.localdomain> <94pdkp$b9n$1@saltmine.radix.net>
Message-ID: <kun1cf604w.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>

In article <94pdkp$b9n$1 at saltmine.radix.net>, cobrien at Radix.Net (Cary
O'Brien) writes: A

| NB3: There is now a postgresql book!  Check amazon.com for details

it's also avaiable on the postgresql web site at
<URL:http://www.postgresql.org/docs/awbook.html>.

  -- erno


From vonWedel at lfpt.rwth-aachen.de  Mon Jan 15 05:49:33 2001
From: vonWedel at lfpt.rwth-aachen.de (vonWedel at lfpt.rwth-aachen.de)
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 11:49:33 +0100
Subject: Uploading a file using HTTP
Message-ID: <OF70DA48D6.BEBFDCB5-ONC12569D5.003B4C14@lfpt.rwth-aachen.de>

Hi,

I want to upload a file using httplib -- how do I do this?

I know how to access the file in a _request_ of the
server, but how can I transmit a file from the client
to the server using the HTTP library implementation
of Python?

TNX for help,
Lars
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From scarblac at pino.selwerd.nl  Sat Jan  6 16:32:08 2001
From: scarblac at pino.selwerd.nl (Remco Gerlich)
Date: 6 Jan 2001 21:32:08 GMT
Subject: Migrating to perl?
References: <3Fa56.4580$of7.216286@news1.atl> <mailman.978670867.31055.python-list@python.org> <V%c56.4648$of7.221797@news1.atl> <BLj56.3858$XZ5.132068@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com> <6Nk56.822$4Z.64804@news2.atl> <934nse02oal@news2.newsguy.com> <3A571F1E.2D25E978@python.net>
Message-ID: <slrn95f3g5.vnu.scarblac@pino.selwerd.nl>

Thomas A. Bryan <tbryan at python.net> wrote in comp.lang.python:
> That's funny.  Although there *is* more than one way to do this in Python, 
> Python users don't seem to care for exercises in finding and displaying 
> "neat tricks" in Python.  Most of the newsgroup postings seem to be 
> discussion of usage of a particular module, how the language (should) 
> work, and implementing a well-designed class/component.
> 
> Of course, there was the one time that Gerrit claimed to have ripped 
> off the open and close brace keys from his keyboard because of his 
> zeal for Python.  I remember a long discussion about how to slice and 
> index without brackets.  :)

And the answers that go like: 

"No, there's no way to do that."

(pause during which something horrible clicks in the posters' mind) 

"Actually, you *could* take the bytecodehacks module, a traceback from a
dummy exception, 2cc of mouse blood, and a marshalled code object..."

Usually followed by a huge block of code that means absolutely 
nothing to me...


-- 
Remco Gerlich

print "Just another Python hacker."


From rcameszREMOVETHIS at dds.removethistoo.nl  Thu Jan 11 19:33:56 2001
From: rcameszREMOVETHIS at dds.removethistoo.nl (Robert Amesz)
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 00:33:56 GMT
Subject: new enum idiom
References: <G6qzLy.6Fo@world.std.com> <938jmh$919$1@animus.fel.iae.nl> <3A58B9C0.9F2A5CC0@collins.rockwell.com> <93an8v02d2n@news1.newsguy.com> <93dde1$8d2$1@animus.fel.iae.nl> <93f3nb023mv@news1.newsguy.com> <90259DC4Arcamesz@127.0.0.1> <93i57b01qms@news2.newsguy.com> <90268BCE3rcamesz@127.0.0.1> <93kb0m0r3s@news1.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <90273B4rcamesz@127.0.0.1>

Alex Martelli wrote:

>"Robert Amesz" <rcameszREMOVETHIS at dds.removethistoo.nl> wrote in
>message news:90268BCE3rcamesz at 127.0.0.1...
>    [snip]
>> Oh, allright. let's just call it a *little* easier, then. I mainly
>> like the lispy flavour.
>
>Which is probably what will turn many other people OFF:-).

Ah, Lisp, so beautiful, so pristine, so ... verbose. Well, it's great 
for lists, but anything numeric is a chore. Let's see:
   (EQ (PLUS 1 1) 2)
   t
Phew, so least that's still true... ;-)

Still, Lisp must have influenced Python, there's the 'lambda' and 'map' 
to prove it.


>> Also, as a small extra bonus, you can use
>> expressions with the tuple-notation. That allows you to do things
>> like: 
>>
>>    #global constants
>>    base1 = 100
>>    base2 = 200
>>
>>    #Someplace else
>>    xx = enum(('foo',base1), 'foo2', 'foo3', ('bar',base2), 'etc')
>>
>> Of course, you can always eval() the right hand part of
>> 'foo=base1', but the other form catches any syntax errors in those
>> expressions before the program actually runs.
>
>But the string-syntax goes one better by allowing, not just syntax
>checking (at compile time), but also type-checking (at runtime) if
>you wish to specify it:
>
>    xx = enum('foo=%s'%base1, 'foo2', 'foo3', 'bar=%d'%base2, 'etc')
>
>here, base1 is accepted whatever type it is (as long as it's able
>to produce a string-form:-), but base2 is requested to be able to
>produce an integer specifically.

Hmm I see a problem here: doesn't the %-operator take a tuple on the 
right hand side, or has that changed in 2.0? In 1.52 it should be:

    xx = enum('foo=%s'%(base1,), 'foo2', 'foo3', 'bar=%d'%(base2,),
              'etc')

That doesn't make it any prettier.

Anyhow it's not hard to coerce something into an int, so the entire 
'bar=%d' vs. 'bar=%s' argument doesn't really matter. I *do* agree that 
any arguments must be typechecked explicitly, that's just sound 
programming practice.


As both forms seem equally capable to get the job done, and I can't see 
the one method being significantly more efficient that the other, in 
the end it would an argument over aesthetics.

Aesthetic argument 1: I don't like data making an unneccesary roundtrip 
into a different domain. When using 's=n' numeric data (n) has to be 
expressed as a string.

Aesthetic argument 2: The form 's=n' is in fact a tuple coded as a 
string, so why not get rid of the coding and make it explicit?  After 
all, one of Pythons design paradigms would to be: "explicit is better 
than implicit".


>Very un-Lispish, no doubt, but, IS this comp.lang.lisp...?-)

Oddly enough, the thing which attracted me to Python was the C-meets-
Lisp quality of its syntax. Both C and Lisp are - in my opnion - among 
the purest and most minimalist types of languages. Python seems to be 
able to combine the two extreme paradigms into an effective, yet clean 
language.

So there you have it, it's out in the open now:

I'm Robert Amesz
 -- and I'm a Python-user... ;-)


From slhath at flash.net  Mon Jan 15 13:36:22 2001
From: slhath at flash.net (s)
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 18:36:22 GMT
Subject: python compiled to native in less than a year?
References: <mailman.979575676.22737.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <GqH86.6041$J%.605518@news.flash.net>

I believe that you are mistaken...the IL is NOT MS specific and is not tied
to any specific platform or chipset.  Some company should easily be able to
take IL and create a compiler that will work on Linux, Unix, Mac, etc.

Scott

"Oleg Broytmann" <phd at phd.pp.ru> wrote in message
news:mailman.979575676.22737.python-list at python.org...
> On Mon, 15 Jan 2001, scotth wrote:
> > Since the new .NET platform from MS will take all the compatible .NET
> > languages and transform them to an IL (intermediate language ???), then
take
> > the IL to native compiled code, this means that python will be compiled,
but
> > only for the Windows platform.
> >
> > Is what I have said correct, or have I missed something?  This would
give
> > python a huge boost!
>
> <OFFTOPIC mode="flame">
>    I am afraid you are near to be correct. This way M$ is trying to bound
> you to one damned platform. This dirty trick is the answer to Sun's dirty
> tricks with Java.
>
>    Stay away from M$, it is perfectly dangerous. Whatever is touched by M$
> soon become M$ :( Don't touch M$, too, let the Sun be sad example :(((
> </OFFTOPIC>
>
> Oleg.
> ----
>      Oleg Broytmann            http://phd.pp.ru/            phd at phd.pp.ru
>            Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN.
>
>




From jerryleekeeney at yahoo.com  Fri Jan 26 11:15:59 2001
From: jerryleekeeney at yahoo.com (jerry keeney)
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 08:15:59 -0800 (PST)
Subject: How to execute the script
Message-ID: <20010126161559.94427.qmail@web9605.mail.yahoo.com>

To execute a script in Python try:

python filename.py

remember the .py

This works in either *ix or windows for me.



__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. 
http://auctions.yahoo.com/



From paulp at ActiveState.com  Thu Jan 18 23:41:21 2001
From: paulp at ActiveState.com (Paul Prescod)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 20:41:21 -0800
Subject: adding the XML to 2.0 to be a mistake?
References: <mailman.979611383.15529.python-list@python.org> <3d8zocuqrd.fsf@kronos.cnri.reston.va.us> <3a646756.124812921@news1.on.sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <3A67C571.B8E41BD1@ActiveState.com>

Robert Roy wrote:
> 
> ...
>
> I agree with what you are saying. Another aspect that concerns me is
> that with the addition of the XML tools, xmllib is now deprecated. The
> recommended alternative, SAX, does not offer the level of control that
> xmllib does.

xmllib has a big problem: it doesn't parse XML correctly. No matter what
its API virtues, I consider that a flaw that disqualifies it for the
position of "standard Python parsing library."

At the bottom I'll attach a perfectly valid XML document that the Python
2.0 xmllib will not support without MAJOR hacking on the part of the
application developer.

As to your complaints about SAX. The one constant in the world of XML
and SGML, going back over 10 years is that people always complain that
their parsers do not give them low enough access to the parse stream.
This is because parseres are optimized for the *average case*. In the
average case, you don't want to do your own entity lookups.

If what you want is an XML tokenizer, then perhaps xmllib is just right.
But even then it isn't perfect because it will return your attributes in
an arbitrary order, not the order they were specified in the document. I
need an XML tokenizer for a project I am working on and I am going to
have to wrap Expat's XMLTok API.

I'm disputing the usefulness of XML tokenizers -- I'm disputing their
relative utility compared to XML parsers.

>  For several tasks (eg: translation to another DTD/Schema) it is
> desireable not to resolve any character entities including the
> standard XML entity defs. ...

Wat you want isn't an XML parser. XML parsers are required by the
specification to resolve character entities.

> Undeclared entities are a problem in SAX but can be handled cleanly
> using the unknown_entityref mecanism in xmllib.

According to the XML specification, *all* entities must be declared. An
XML parser is required to check that.

Here's the example XML document:

<!DOCTYPE Element [
<!ELEMENT Element ANY>
<!ENTITY abcdef "<Element/>">
]>
<Element>&abcdef;</Element>

SAX correctly reports two elements. xmllib incorrectly reports one. And
it isn't fair to come back with: "Who cares about entities" because you
were complaining about SAX's entity support. The real question is
whether you would rather have low-level vs. correct entity handling. The
answer is: a tokenizer should have low-level, a parser should have
correct.

 Paul Prescod



From wagnernils at hotmail.com  Sun Jan  7 07:57:20 2001
From: wagnernils at hotmail.com (Nils Wagner)
Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2001 12:57:20 -0000
Subject: Import error
Message-ID: <F25qN33HFnwpGR881Np000058de@hotmail.com>

Hi,

I have installed gtkglarea-1.2.2.tar.gz.

Finally a make in cvisual/ works !

Unfortunately there is an import error

Python 2.0 (#1, Oct 16 2000, 18:10:03)
[GCC 2.95.2 19991024 (release)] on linux2
Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>>import visual
Visual-2000-06-10
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
  File "/usr/local/lib/python2.0/site-packages/visual/__init__.py", line 16, 
in ?
    import cvisual
ImportError: /usr/local/lib/python2.0/site-packages/cvisualmodule.so: 
undefined symbol: gtk_gl_area_make_current

Who can help me ?

Thanks

                  Nils


_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.




From thomas at xs4all.net  Mon Jan 29 09:15:31 2001
From: thomas at xs4all.net (Thomas Wouters)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 15:15:31 +0100
Subject: "in" for dicts (was: Python 2.1 function attributes)
In-Reply-To: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCKEPEILAA.tim.one@home.com>; from tim.one@home.com on Mon, Jan 29, 2001 at 07:08:32AM -0500
References: <20010129115331.S962@xs4all.nl> <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCKEPEILAA.tim.one@home.com>
Message-ID: <20010129151531.W922@xs4all.nl>

On Mon, Jan 29, 2001 at 07:08:32AM -0500, Tim Peters wrote:
> [Thomas Wouters]
> > Two of my colleagues (out of two interrogated) didn't quite get
> > it [x in dict, for x in dict]. It's not that they didn't understand
> > the idea, but it wasn't quite what they expected. They aren't quite
> > feeble :) But it's also true that their expectations were different
> > in the 'for' case.

> Don't be such a tease:  what *did* they expect?  I'm guessing they expected
> to iterate over (key, value) pairs in the "for" case -- but only because
> that's what you suggested on Python-Dev <wink>.

Well, one expected 'if value in dict' but 'for key in dict', but said he
would prefer it if it was 'for key,value in dict' -- eventhough that's not
what he expected.

The other *wanted* 'if value in dict', but refused to say what he *expected*
it to do. Similar for 'for value in dict', though after some prodding of
mine (that is, I suggested some options) admitted 'for key in dict' and 'for
key,value in dict' both were useful, too. He even suggested exactly what I
suggested, 'for key in dict.keys', though with less sarcasm (i.e. none.)

> > Is it because we all know you can't *get* a value from a dict without
> > extracting them all, and all values could be the same ? How obvious is
> > that to people without a technical idea of dictionaries ?

> Well, I suspect the idea that you *could* "look up" by value is something
> only a tech-head would imagine.  Nobody searches phone books or Webster's
> "backwards" in real life.  Even tech-heads don't seem to have much use for
> it, to judge from Ping's quantification of "[for] x in dict.values()"
> constructs in the std library:

>     http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2001-January/012106.html

> I didn't think that was surprising.

And this still makes me say 'pfiffle'. That construct A is used (much more)
often than construct B doesn't necessarily mean that syntax X should be tied
to construct A (or B or C, for that matter.) Are we talking "what do you
expect it to mean" or "what do you wish it meant" (or "what idiom do you
want syntactic support for") ?

> [Guido] approved of "Ping's proposal", and at the top of the msg in which
> he did that:
> 
>     http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2001-January/012110.html

The first agreement from Guido in this thread is here:
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2001-January/012103.html

and seems to imply he only agreed to the 'if' part. The message you supply
came later, and isn't clear to what he means. I suspect, too, that he more
or less agreed to both, knowing fully well it would be hackish, if not
impossible, to implement 'for x in dict' before 2.1b1, giving him ample time
to rethink the 'for' part :-)

> That is, in

>     http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2001-January/012116.html

> you explained why your patch *didn't* implement the "for" part.  Seems an
> odd digression if you didn't think Guido was asking for that too <wink>.

Hmm. I think I meant it more to the rest of the public, and to make clear
that it was *not* implemented, than as an acknowledgement that Guido had
wanted it implemented. I'm not a professional Guido channeler, and I
definately wasn't trying to do that, there :)

-- 
Thomas Wouters <thomas at xs4all.net>

Hi! I'm a .signature virus! copy me into your .signature file to help me spread!



From dsh8290 at rit.edu  Wed Jan 24 21:34:24 2001
From: dsh8290 at rit.edu (D-Man)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 21:34:24 -0500
Subject: what GUI, please advise
In-Reply-To: <CDB31EB6FBE52A77.DD693053330FF80D.C9225379711276A9@lp.airnews.net>; from claird@starbase.neosoft.com on Wed, Jan 24, 2001 at 05:32:30PM -0600
References: <3A6F18F2.536F27FE@crepido.com> <mailman.980360668.7701.python-list@python.org> <7DA74694B63ED42A.83CB11913E3910C5.C8BE5B392AC1AC5C@lp.airnews.net> <mailman.980378246.26304.python-list@python.org> <CDB31EB6FBE52A77.DD693053330FF80D.C9225379711276A9@lp.airnews.net>
Message-ID: <20010124213424.A28351@harmony.cs.rit.edu>

On Wed, Jan 24, 2001 at 05:32:30PM -0600, Cameron Laird wrote:
| In article <mailman.980378246.26304.python-list at python.org>,
| D-Man  <dsh8290 at rit.edu> wrote:
| >
| >(steering the discussion in my direction ...)
| >
| >What is the general feeling of GTK+ vs. wxWindows?
| 			.
| 			.
| 			.
| Does <URL:
| http://www.sunworld.com/unixinsideronline/swol-12-2000/swol-1218-wxwindows.html
| >
| help?

Thanks, but I had already read it.  It was a good article, but it
didn't talk much about how it compares against GTK+ from a
application design point of view.

What is your personal opinion Cameron?  (You apparently have a rather
extensive knowledge regarding toolkits and enough experience to back
it)

-D



From scarblac at pino.selwerd.nl  Tue Jan 30 08:05:03 2001
From: scarblac at pino.selwerd.nl (Remco Gerlich)
Date: 30 Jan 2001 13:05:03 GMT
Subject: slow joinings of strings
References: <87ofwpnrpp.fsf@losthighway.ahoj.pl>
Message-ID: <slrn97deit.cea.scarblac@pino.selwerd.nl>

Karol Bryd <kbryd at losthighway._nospam_eu.org> wrote in comp.lang.python:
> 
>        Hi!
> 
> I want to read a file (0.6MB, 10000 lines) into memory, and want to do it as
> fast as possible, this code does it, but is terribly slow
> 
> fp = open(file, 'r')
> s = ''
> while 1:
>         line = fp.readline()
>         if line == '': break
>         s = s + line
> 
> (executing time 25 sec)
> 
> At first I thought that this is caused by readline() and lack of buffering
> but after removing "s = s + line" executing time decreased to 0.7 seconds!
> The question is how to join two strings in a more efficient way?

Why do you read them in line by line in the first place?

s = open(file, 'r').read()

"s = s+line" has to create a nice string every time, and copy the other two
into it, one of them nearly 0.6M at the last line. That will be slow.

-- 
Remco Gerlich


From fredrik at effbot.org  Sun Jan 28 04:40:22 2001
From: fredrik at effbot.org (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 09:40:22 GMT
Subject: marshal doesn't work with "file-like" objects
References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010126135016.029c4d90@mail.mindspring.com> <mailman.980540325.4462.python-list@python.org> <94t1bi$m73$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <Wyxc6.9225$AH6.1522817@newsc.telia.net> <950a3c$27b$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <aORc6.9326$AH6.1567365@newsc.telia.net>

Chuck wrote:
> It would be even faster to simply write the marshal results to memory
> first and then blast them out to disk in one fell swoop, e.g.
> ultimately one fprintf() call.

See Tim's post at the start of this thread.

Cheers /F




From root at rainerdeyke.com  Sat Jan  6 12:25:06 2001
From: root at rainerdeyke.com (Rainer Deyke)
Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2001 17:25:06 GMT
Subject: Memory Leakage with Tuples and Lists
References: <936h6e$d11$1@news.nuri.net>
Message-ID: <SxI56.3340$ge4.1601295@news2.rdc2.tx.home.com>

"June Kim" <junaftnoon at nospamplzyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:936h6e$d11$1 at news.nuri.net...
> Tested under Python 1.5 and 2.0 on Win32:
>
> 1.
> Python 2.0 (#8, Oct 16 2000, 17:27:58) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)
> Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more informat
> >>> for j in range(10):
> ...     temp=range(800000)
> ...     del temp

This creates 799900 integer objects (each one separately allocated on the
heap and containing at least 12 bytes: 4 for data, 4 for type, and 4 for
reference count) and one list of 800000 elements at 4 bytes per element.
Minimum memory used: 12798800 bytes (12.2 MB).

> 2.
> Python 2.0 (#8, Oct 16 2000, 17:27:58) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)
> Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more informat
> >>> for j in range(10):
> ...     temp='a'*8000000
> ...     del temp

This creates a single string of 800000 characters at one byte per character.
Memory used: 800000 bytes.

> In the case of #2, there is no memory leakage at all. All the memory is
> returned 100%. However, in #1, there is a severe memory leakage, a few
mega
> bytes. Do you guys experience this on *nices as well?

All memory is allocated through malloc.  A typical malloc implementation
sends requests for large amounts of memory directly to the OS but deals with
requests for small amounts of memory by getting whole pages of memory from
the OS and handing out parts of these pages.  When the memory is released,
the big blocks return to the OS and the small pieces are kept by the
allocator to handle future requests.


--
Rainer Deyke (root at rainerdeyke.com)
Shareware computer games           -           http://rainerdeyke.com
"In ihren Reihen zu stehen heisst unter Feinden zu kaempfen" - Abigor




From pearu at cens.ioc.ee  Tue Jan  2 13:20:54 2001
From: pearu at cens.ioc.ee (Pearu Peterson)
Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2001 20:20:54 +0200 (GMT-2)
Subject: sre \Z bug or feature?
In-Reply-To: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCGEFMIGAA.tim.one@home.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10101021957410.1302-100000@kev.ioc.ee>

On Tue, 2 Jan 2001, Tim Peters wrote:

> You may want to add this test case to the bug "New re breaks on some '*?'
> matches" opened yesterday:
> 
> http://sourceforge.net/bugs/?func=detailbug&bug_id=127259&group_id=5470

Done. Thanks for the reference.

> > ... any hints how to go around this bug without updating Python
> > from CVS after it is fixed?
> 
> It's unclear what you're trying to accomplish.  Tell us in words what it is
> you're trying to match, and I'm sure we can find an equivalent regexp that
> doesn't use *?.  As is, your regexp should match any string whatsoever that
> ends with a } followed by optional whitespace, and set groupdict('rest') to
> an empty string.  It can never set 'rest' to anything other than an empty
> string.  If that's really what you intended, then
> 
>     r'(?s).*}\s*\Z(?P<rest>)'
> 
> is a simpler and faster way to accomplish that.  But I doubt that's what you
> intended.

Here is a complete re.match command that I use in my application:

m=re.match(r'\A(?ms)\s*@\s*(?P<name>\w+)\s*{\s*(?P<body>.*?)\s*}\s*\Z',item)

and it should match an item in the .bib files (the BiBTeX input file).
This item is expected to be of the following form:

@name{body}

where `name' is purely alphabetic string, body may contain arbitrary
characters, including `{',`}',`\n'. Between the parts `@', `name', `{',
`body', and `}' there may be any number of whitespace characters,
including newlines. Note also that `item' contains exactly one such bibtex
item block (that is correctly ensured by the other parts of my
application).

So, do you think that the pattern I use is somehow invalid or inefficient?

In order to get my application to work under Python 2.0, I use now

import pre as re

that works perfectly.

Thanks,
	Pearu




From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sat Jan  6 05:11:17 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2001 11:11:17 +0100
Subject: variable inirialization and loop forms (was Re: why no "do :  until"?)
References: <92jj3j$ff7$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <3A4D6A05.EEC97FA6@uswest.net> <slrn94qqvg.mgg.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <ije36.96813$x6.43604873@news2.rdc2.tx.home.com> <slrn94qt4f.mgg.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <CMo36.97857$x6.44474719@news2.rdc2.tx.home.com> <slrn94s9qg.134.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <gdq36.2696$Qb7.302774@newsb.telia.net> <slrn94shbe.150.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <92v6m002nlr@news2.newsguy.com> <3A560294.9C943D5E@ltec.net> <3A56C5FF.DA0C8BD8@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <936r3n0ptg@news1.newsguy.com>

"Peter Hansen" <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message
news:3A56C5FF.DA0C8BD8 at engcorp.com...
    [snip]
> > T = getCurrentTemperature()
> > while warmEnough(T):
> >     T = getCurrentTemperature()
> >
> > This is expressed in Alex's generalization, but I think also applies to
the
    [snip]
> > I realize that written this way there is a maintainability issue.
Perhaps that's
> > reason enough not to do it this way.
>
> Yes!  That is definitely reason enough not to do it this way.
> The moment I catch myself writing lines that are that clearly
> redundant that close together, I refactor to remove the
> redundancy.

VERY right!  "Doing each thing *once*" is a good guideline.

> Maintenance issues are, in my opinion, one of the
> most under-appreciated problems of software development.  All

...except by actual practising programmers -- having spent
over 50% of one's time maintaining for a few years can be
a good eye-opener:-).

> code has to be maintained, even if it's just by the author,
> and even if it's just a day after the code was written.  The
> likelihood (as shown by direct experience and long observation)
> of code like the above being broken by subsequent changes
> being made incorrectly is much higher than if the code were
> written without the duplicate lines.

Bears repeating, as it's so *intensely* true!-)

It's not as terrible here, because the getCurrentTemperature
function encapsulates whatever is being done for the purpose;
most cases you see such repetitious style, the author has not
bothered encapsulating, so 2 or more statements, or a complex
expression at least, are being repeated.  Still, it's even better
to avoid the repetition altogether, if feasible.


Alex





From penfold at deadbeat.edu  Sat Jan 20 15:45:00 2001
From: penfold at deadbeat.edu (Eric Inazaki)
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 14:45:00 -0600
Subject: Neophyte looking for good books on Python
References: <94ak66$dra$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <94aulr$m1o$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <980023572.27042@iris.nyx.net>
Message-ID: <200120011445004791%penfold@deadbeat.edu>

It used to be that you could "upgrade" to a new ed. at a 20% discount.
I don't know if that's still their policy or if that's significant
enough for you.


In article <980023572.27042 at iris.nyx.net>, sarayu balu <sbalu at nyx.net>
wrote:

> 
> Oreilly should take the leadership in this area, in selling 
> newer editions at substantial discounts for owners of older 
> editions, or follow Bruce Eckel's model of putting the whole
> book on the web. What do you folks think ?
> -sb


From NOstarfighterSPAM at freeuk.com  Sat Jan 27 10:00:12 2001
From: NOstarfighterSPAM at freeuk.com (Richard Townsend)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 15:00:12 -0000
Subject: Tkinter Canvas postscript method
Message-ID: <vqBc6.5089$wq.644393@nnrp3.clara.net>

Can someone tell me how to create a suitable variable in Python, to pass
with
the fontmap option?






From phd at phd.pp.ru  Tue Jan 23 07:50:34 2001
From: phd at phd.pp.ru (Oleg Broytmann)
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 15:50:34 +0300 (MSK)
Subject: run command as other user
In-Reply-To: <94jt1i$1evs$1@news.net.uni-c.dk>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0101231550010.9765-100000@fep132.fep.ru>

On Tue, 23 Jan 2001, Peter Posselt Vestergaard wrote:
> Is there some way to run a shell-command from python (on Unix) as another
> user (than the one running the script)?

   There are lots of programs: su, sudo, etc...

Oleg.
----
     Oleg Broytmann            http://phd.pp.ru/            phd at phd.pp.ru
           Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN.




From aahz at panix.com  Thu Jan 18 01:44:57 2001
From: aahz at panix.com (Aahz Maruch)
Date: 17 Jan 2001 22:44:57 -0800
Subject: How to close all files between fork and exec?
References: <yv27l3upooj.fsf@lionsp093.lion-ag.de>
Message-ID: <9463d9$eif$1@panix6.panix.com>

In article <yv27l3upooj.fsf at lionsp093.lion-ag.de>,
Harald Kirsch  <kirschh at lionbioscience.com> wrote:
>
>Python has fork/exec. I want to use it. After fork and before exec I
>would like the child process to close all files other than 0, 1 and 2
>(i.e. standard input/output/error). 

Why not simply keep track of all open files in a dict or list?
-- 
                      --- Aahz (Copyright 2001 by aahz at pobox.com)

Androgynous poly kinky vanilla queer het    <*>     http://www.rahul.net/aahz/
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6

A house is a machine to keep your cat dry.  --Aahz


From not.this at seebelow.org  Fri Jan 12 16:20:52 2001
From: not.this at seebelow.org (Grant Griffin)
Date: 12 Jan 2001 13:20:52 -0800
Subject: brace nanny
Message-ID: <93nsfk02gdu@drn.newsguy.com>

Hi Gang,

Does anybody know of a free/open "brace nanny" for C/C++, preferably written in
Python?  (By "brace nanny", of course, I mean a gizmo that finds inconsistencies
between the indentation level and the braces.  I've had to change bracing style
lately, so I need a little help with that.)

braces-are-nothing-but-trouble-<wink>-ly y'rs,

=g2

_____________________________________________________________________

Grant R. Griffin                                       g2 at dspguru.com
Publisher of dspGuru                           http://www.dspguru.com
Iowegian International Corporation            http://www.iowegian.com



From Uberto.Barbini at ceda.polimi.it  Tue Jan  9 09:38:06 2001
From: Uberto.Barbini at ceda.polimi.it (Barbini Uberto)
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 15:38:06 +0100 
Subject: post in CGI scripts
Message-ID: <1A4E530F40B6D3119E880050041D6DE0BED033@wntceda3.ceda.polimi.it>

I've found some problems to use "post" method in my cgi script (in python).

>From which I read I assumed that
>>>
import cgi

form = cgi.FieldStorage()
<<<

have to run both with "get" and "post" html form methods.

Anyway my script (a converter from nntp to html) can get input values only
with "get" method and not with "post" method.

I'm using Xitami under w2k. I configured it adding a filter which link *.py
to python.exe.

Where I'm doing wrong?


Ciao Uberto



From zeitlin at seth.lpthe.jussieu.fr  Sun Jan 14 09:41:25 2001
From: zeitlin at seth.lpthe.jussieu.fr (Vadim Zeitlin)
Date: 14 Jan 2001 14:41:25 GMT
Subject: Help required with wxGrid
References: <93ovgf$g9m$1@gossamer.itmel.bhp.com.au>
Message-ID: <slrn963eid.8qa.zeitlin@seth.lpthe.jussieu.fr>

On Sat, 13 Jan 2001 18:18:26 +1100, Austin Wilson <wilson.austin.aj at bhp.com.au> wrote:
>possible for a long string of text which is typed into one cell be rendered
>such that it overflows into the adjacent cell (as long os that cell is
>empty) rather than being truncated or wrapped.

 No, it is not possible - in the sense that the standard wxGrid class doesn't
support it. You probably could implement such feature in your own wxGrid
derived class but it risks to be a bit complicated as the grid carefully tries
to only redraw the cells which must be updated and it's not immediately
obvious how/if this logic will work in your case.

>Microsoft Excel does this by default.

 I guess they didn't use wxWindows :-)

 Regards,
VZ

-- 
GCS/GM d? H+ s++:-- p2 au--- a- w+ v C+++ UBLS+++ P- L++ N++ E--- W++++ M? V--
-po+ R++ G`` !tv b+++ D--- e++++ u++ h--- f+ r++ n- y?


From fredrik at effbot.org  Tue Jan 23 14:52:52 2001
From: fredrik at effbot.org (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 19:52:52 GMT
Subject: PIL Example
References: <94km7t$caq$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <oilb6.8447$AH6.1364119@newsc.telia.net>

"smibr at my-deja.com" wrote:
> When I run the following example from the PIL documentation, the
> traceback indicates an attempt to redefine "fill" in line xx. Has the
> mechanism for passing named parameters changed in 2.0?
>
> Thanks.
>
> import Image, ImageDraw
>
> im = Image.open("lena.pgm")
>
> draw = ImageDraw.Draw(im)
> draw.line((0, 0) + im.size, fill=128)
> draw.line((0, im.size[1], im.size[0], 0), fill=128)
> del draw
>
> # write to stdout
> im.save(sys.stdout, "PNG")

It works just fine on my box...

What PIL version are you using (Image.VERSION)

Cheers /F




From thomas at cintra.no  Sat Jan 13 09:53:47 2001
From: thomas at cintra.no (Thomas Weholt)
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 15:53:47 +0100
Subject: Mp3-module that extracts bitrate, length info
Message-ID: <0_Z76.1077$wt2.3267@news1.oke.nextra.no>

Hi,

I need a module that can extract bitrate and length etc. fom mp3 files on
Win32. I've tried mp3infor.py on Linux and it works great but it fails on
Win32. ID3Tag.py and the rest I've found on Parnassus seem to only get
artist, albumtitle, songname, genre and year, but I would really want to get
the length and bitrate too.

If anybody can give me some hints that would be great. I could possibly be
fixed using the source of the mp3infor.py module but I don't understand the
bit where it extracts the info I mentioned.

Thomas




From fabrice.n at home.com  Tue Jan 30 23:12:58 2001
From: fabrice.n at home.com (shaka)
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 04:12:58 GMT
Subject: Command line argument !@#%*!!1?
Message-ID: <ehMd6.24253$KP3.7243699@news3.rdc1.on.home.com>

I am trying to run a script that I download and the script does work because
they want me to enter the command line argument.  How do I do that?




From bckfnn at worldonline.dk  Thu Jan 18 15:20:43 2001
From: bckfnn at worldonline.dk (Finn Bock)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 20:20:43 GMT
Subject: ANN: Jython-2.0 released
Message-ID: <3a674e4e.38952510@smtp.worldonline.dk>

I am happy to announce the release of Jython 2.0. 

Jython is a Java implementation of the Python programming
language.  It allows users to compile Python source code to
Java byte codes, and run the resulting bytecodes on any Java
Virtual Machine.  It is a very seamless and smooth
integration with Java:  from Python you have complete access
to all Java libraries, can build applets, can integrate with
Java beans, and can subclass Java classes in Python and vice
versa.  Like Python, and unlike Java, Jython can also be
used interactively:  just type some Jython code at the
prompt and see the results immediately.

A java installer is available for download at the Jython website:

    http://www.jython.org/

Installation is started by running the installer class. Further 
information and tips on installation is available at:

    http://www.jython.org/install.html

Jython 2.0 is feature compatible with Python 2.0 and among the 
new feature are:

  - Augmented assignment, e.g. x += 1
  - List comprehensions, e.g. [x**2 for x in range(10)]
  - Extended import statement, e.g. import Module as Name
  - Extended print statement, e.g. print >> file, "Hello"


A complete list of changes and differences are available here:

  http://www.jython.org/NEWS.html

Bugs can be reported to the bug manager on SourceForge:

  http://sourceforge.net/bugs/?group_id=12867

Cheers,
the jython-developers 



From thomas at xs4all.net  Tue Jan 30 03:56:51 2001
From: thomas at xs4all.net (Thomas Wouters)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 09:56:51 +0100
Subject: "in" for dicts (was: Python 2.1 function attributes)
In-Reply-To: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCOEPFILAA.tim.one@home.com>; from tim.one@home.com on Mon, Jan 29, 2001 at 07:19:42AM -0500
References: <slrn97ahpp.a66.scarblac@pino.selwerd.nl> <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCOEPFILAA.tim.one@home.com>
Message-ID: <20010130095650.Z962@xs4all.nl>

On Mon, Jan 29, 2001 at 07:19:42AM -0500, Tim Peters wrote:
>     for line in f.readlines():

> would have been almost infinitely preferable, had we been able to dream up a
> reasonable way to do that lazily that wouldn't break some existing code.
> But we couldn't.

I disagree. We could have (using a lazy wrapper class/type), but Guido
didn't want to change the return type of f.readlines(). It would have been
more trouble, and it would have opened the door for a lot more fake-lists,
but I still don't think it would have broken much code :)

-- 
Thomas Wouters <thomas at xs4all.net>

Hi! I'm a .signature virus! copy me into your .signature file to help me spread!



From cmedcoff at my-deja.com  Wed Jan 31 11:56:19 2001
From: cmedcoff at my-deja.com (Charles Medcoff)
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 16:56:19 GMT
Subject: How to debug multiple threads?
Message-ID: <959g3d$jto$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

I've got a socket app and I'm trying to set a breakpoint on a receive
thread.  I've tried using PythonWin and pdb and neither one seems to
work.  Anyone got any suggestions?

Regards,
Chuck


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From nickatvideosystemdotcodotuk  Tue Jan 23 13:48:20 2001
From: nickatvideosystemdotcodotuk (Nick Trout)
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 18:48:20 -0000
Subject: news - nntp server
References: <3a6daab8@news.xtml.co.uk> <Pine.LNX.4.21.0101231333570.24971-100000@tarpon.exis.net>
Message-ID: <3a6dd21a@news.xtml.co.uk>

> >I'm trying to set up an NNTP/newsgroup server on an NT4 machine.
> >
> >What is the easiest way to do this please. Can Python help me?!
>
> Why are you posting here?

Because someone may be able to suggest a Python solution for this. There are
plenty of HTTP servers out there written in Python. eg. there may be an
extension to Medusa that I dont know about. It mentions NNTP in the readme
but I cant find any evidence that it exists! People are usually pretty
helpful on here.




From phlip_cpp at my-deja.com  Mon Jan  8 22:01:58 2001
From: phlip_cpp at my-deja.com (Phlip)
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 19:01:58 -0800
Subject: CXX/Array.h's Py::Array samples or documentation?
References: <XHs66.282$ip2.91379@news.pacbell.net> <m3n1d18ru4.fsf@geog.ubc.ca>
Message-ID: <Wbv66.175$w7.147801@news.pacbell.net>

Phil Austin wrote:

> Although I'm sure there are better ways to do this,
> here's a hacked version of CXX_Array.h that initializes a
> multi-dimensional Py::Array using an stl vector of dimensions
> (search on the string "fromVector" to see the changes)
 
>       PyObject* fromVector(const std::vector<int>& dimens, const
>       PyArray_TYPES& t){
> int ndims=dimens.size();
> return (PyObject*) PyArray_FromDims(ndims, (int*) dimens.begin(), t);
>       }

Instantly after posting (don't it always go like that?) I discovered the 
'reshape' function.

I promise I'm soaking in this stuff as fast as possible ;-)

The reshaper lead to a comment in the CXX source saying like "one could 
copy the source to reshape out of Numpy and exploit it here."

That lead to this attempt (those offended by non-Python code may wish to 
stand upside down with their head in a bucket):

        static void
copyData (
        Py::Array & ma,
        vector<vector< string > > & database, 
        int maxFields
        )
{

#if 1

        Py::Sequence shape (Py::Int (2)); // <-- pow
        shape[0] = Py::Int (int (database.size()));
        shape[1] = Py::Int (maxFields);
        PyArray_Reshape ((PyArrayObject*)ma.ptr(), shape.ptr());

#else

        int zone[] = { database.size(), maxFields };
        Py::Object mo ((PyObject*)PyArray_FromDims
                                (2, zone, PyArray_OBJECT)
                        );
        ma = mo;

#endif

}

The first stab's based on the inferred activity inside 'array_reshape()'. 
And it fails on the first line; trying to do the equivalent of a Python

        shape = (2.4)

The second does not crash, but I have not tested the return value or proven 
I can then stuff 'database's contents in.

How could the first one work simpler?

And, in the second one, will the 'ma = mo' line do a deep copy such t hat 
the Python-side owner of 'ma' will see it reshaped and full of goodies?

-- 
Phlip
http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?PhlIp


From fredrik at effbot.org  Wed Jan 24 11:24:22 2001
From: fredrik at effbot.org (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 16:24:22 GMT
Subject: urllib.urlretrieve("http://free.bsdshell.net/")
References: <mailman.980260650.3690.python-list@python.org> <ku3de89b4z.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>
Message-ID: <WkDb6.9031$Qb7.1280502@newsb.telia.net>

Erno Kuusela wrote:
> i think the user-agent theory cannot work, because client
> cannot have sent the user-agent string if the connect() call
> faills with "connetion refused" :)

it can redirect the client to nowhere, of course.

(if you don't like the agent string, return 302 with
an invalid address)

Cheers /F




From mnajmeddine at geo.census.gov  Fri Jan 26 13:30:48 2001
From: mnajmeddine at geo.census.gov (Mohamed Najmeddine)
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 13:30:48 -0500
Subject: cgi
Message-ID: <LNBBJMBHBAJKJGAJCGABCEJDCHAA.mnajmeddine@geo.census.gov>

I have configured the IIS to run a simple cgi script named hello.cgi and put
the script on the dir c:/inetpub/wwwroot/cgi-bin/. The script is as follows:

print "Content-Type: text/html\n\n"
print "Hello Python"


and I got the following error message:


CGI Error
The specified CGI application misbehaved by not returning a complete set of
HTTP headers. The headers it did return are:


syntax error at c:\inetpub\wwwroot\cgi-bin\hello.cgi line 4, near "print"
Execution of c:\inetpub\wwwroot\cgi-bin\hello.cgi aborted due to compilation
errors.

Any help would be appreciated.
p.s
I have configured the IIS using to run python script using regedit

"C:\python\python.exe %s %s"




From junaftnoon at nospamplzyahoo.com  Sat Jan  6 06:28:57 2001
From: junaftnoon at nospamplzyahoo.com (June Kim)
Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2001 20:28:57 +0900
Subject: Memory Leakage with Tuples and Lists
References: <936h6e$d11$1@news.nuri.net> <x7ldJVA2kvV6EwMC@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <936vkc$ol1$1@news.nuri.net>

"Robin Becker" <robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:x7ldJVA2kvV6EwMC at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk...
> In article <936h6e$d11$1 at news.nuri.net>, June Kim <junaftnoon at nospamplzy
> ahoo.com> writes
> >Tested under Python 1.5 and 2.0 on Win32:
> >
> >1.
> >Python 2.0 (#8, Oct 16 2000, 17:27:58) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)
> >Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more informat
> >>>> for j in range(10):
> >...     temp=range(800000)
> >...     del temp
> >
> >2.
> >Python 2.0 (#8, Oct 16 2000, 17:27:58) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)
> >Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more informat
> >>>> for j in range(10):
> >...     temp='a'*8000000
> >...     del temp
> >
> >In the case of #2, there is no memory leakage at all. All the memory is
> >returned 100%. However, in #1, there is a severe memory leakage, a few
mega
> >bytes. Do you guys experience this on *nices as well?
> >
> >
> I don't see the leak you describe; how did you check for it? Certainly
> the total memory used grows the first time I use the code; after all
> 800000 ints is 3.2M; if there a serious leak I would expect to see
> around 32M disappear each time I run the code. I certainly don't see
> that.
> --
> Robin Becker

Well, to make it simple, when I do:

temp1=range(800000)

it seems like I'm losing about 13MB immediately, whereas

temp2='a'*800000 consumes almost exactly 8MB.

When I "del temp1", it frees about 3.2MB which is, I suppose, right size for
800000s integers, and "del temp2" frees up exactly the same that it took up
in the first place. 10MB's more overhead in temp1 seems too much, and why
not returned wholly on the deletion?

ps. I checked the memory status with System Monitor, not running any other
programs besides Python.

Best regards,

June



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Thu Jan 11 11:38:58 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 17:38:58 +0100
Subject: Speed of Python vs. Perl
References: <slrn95qtbp.94d.tim@degree.ath.cx><LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCEEPNIHAA.tim.one@home.com> <mailman.979222336.4917.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <93knls01acc@news1.newsguy.com>

"Skip Montanaro" <skip at mojam.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.979222336.4917.python-list at python.org...
>
>     Tim> Indeed, on my box, I can clearly see the difference between:
>     Tim> python -c "print 'hi'"
>     Tim> and
>     Tim> perl -e "print 'hi'"
>     Tim> by eyeball (the former takes a noticeable fraction of a second;
the latter
>     Tim> appears instantaneous).
>
> Then you have better reflexes than anyone suspected or you need a better
box
> (I thought you had a 700+ MHz thingamabob)...  On my box (being similarly

...running some sort of Windows...

> of-course-it-could-be-a-windows-/-linux-thing-jab-jab-ly y'rs,

I'm anything but a Windows-basher (as long as the market pays me for
Windows apps, that's where I'll mostly work -- I'm a grrrreedy guy),
but such aspects as the delays connected with starting something at
the commandline ARE noticeably different... Windows is VERY slow.  I
have no objective measurements of this, but subjectively it seems that
commandline apps are slower and slower with each passing Win release
(not that the GUI ones are speed demons, mind you -- nor the
daem^H^H^H^H services, etc)...


Alex





From skip at mojam.com  Thu Jan 11 15:05:08 2001
From: skip at mojam.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 14:05:08 -0600 (CST)
Subject: BSDDB problem
In-Reply-To: <3A5DE0C6.44E770B8@ex.ac.uk>
References: <3A5DE0C6.44E770B8@ex.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <14942.4596.879994.146608@beluga.mojam.com>

    MJF> I am using Python 2.0 on a Linux machine. I wanted to use the bsddb
    MJF> module to get the information out the Netscape History.dat file. I
    MJF> tried the following:

    MJF> import bsddb
    MJF> hist = bsddb.hashopen('history.dat', 'r')

    MJF> I got the error:

    MJF> Traceback (most recent call last):
    MJF>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
    MJF> bsddb.error: (22, 'Invalid argument')

You've been bitten by Berkeley DB's version skew.  As far as I know, each
time Sleepycat has upgraded they've changed the file format.  Netscape 4.75
statically linked Berkeley DB 1.85.  You are almost certainly using 2.x or
possibly even 3.x on your Debian machine.  Try executing "file spam.db" to
see what you get and comparing that with "file history.dat".  Here's what I
see:

    % file history.dat
    history.dat: Berkeley DB 1.85 Hash/Little Endian (Version 2, Bucket Size 4096, Bucket Shift 12, Directory Size 256, Segment Size 256, Segment Shift 8, Overflow Point 10, Last Freed 10, Max Bucket 513, High Mask 0x3ff, Low Mask 0x1ff, Fill Factor 48, Number of Keys 14938)
    % file spam.db 
    spam.db: Berkeley DB 2.X Hash/Little Endian (Version 5, Logical sequence number: file - 0, offset - 0, Bucket Size 4096, Overflow Point 2, Last Freed 0, Max Bucket 3, High Mask 0x3, Low Mask 0x1, Fill Factor 0, Number of Keys 0)

You can probably build Python 2.x against Berkeley DB 1.85 if you're
desperate to read that file.  Look around your lib directories for something
like libdb1.a.  Be careful with the include files, however.  You don't want
to #include the 2.x include files and link with the 1.x library.

A perhaps better alternative would be to use db_dump185 to dump the
history.dat file to plain text and then db_load to create a history2.dat
file from that:

    % db_dump185 ~/.netscape/history.dat > history2.txt
    % db_load history2.dat < history2.txt
    % file history2.dat
    history2.dat: Berkeley DB 2.X Hash/Little Endian (Version 5, Logical sequence number: file - 0, offset - 0, Bucket Size 4096, Overflow Point 9, Last Freed 596, Max Bucket 422, High Mask 0x1ff, Low Mask 0xff, Fill Factor 48, Number of Keys 15011)
    % python
    Python 2.0 (#19, Jan 10 2001, 22:34:25) 
    [GCC 2.95.3 19991030 (prerelease)] on linux2
    Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
    >>> import bsddb
    >>> db = bsddb.hashopen("history2.dat")
    >>> len(db)
    15011

Of course, you will have to do that each time you want to analyze your
history.dat file.

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at mojam.com)
Support the Mojam.com Affiliates Program: http://www.mojam.com/affl/
(847)971-7098



From nas at arctrix.com  Sat Jan 13 13:37:52 2001
From: nas at arctrix.com (Neil Schemenauer)
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 10:37:52 -0800
Subject: More on web development
In-Reply-To: <0hr16t4gt4vp72b8aqcs0tup6ddcs1urtr@4ax.com>; from timr@probo.com on Sat, Jan 13, 2001 at 04:23:25PM -0800
References: <0hr16t4gt4vp72b8aqcs0tup6ddcs1urtr@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <20010113103752.A28880@glacier.fnational.com>

On Sat, Jan 13, 2001 at 04:23:25PM -0800, Tim Roberts wrote:
> I'm wondering now if it would be better to have the whole site dispatched
> by a single script, using the PATH_INFO part of the URL to identify a
> command to be executed.  Does anyone have any feelings about this?

It works well.  If you use something like FastCGI the script
doesn't have to start for each hit.  That's fast.  An amusing
story: the other day we were giving a demo of our new web stuff
built with Quixote.  Andrew hadn't wrote the particular piece of
code we where showing off and said something like "that's neat,
did you do that in Javascript?".  The answer was no, it was done
on the server side.  The page was being returned and rendered so
quickly that it looked like it was done client side.

Systems like Quixote and Zope use the exact scheme you describe.
A path like /q/user/login gets handled by Quixote like this:

    /q is rewritten by mod_rewrite to /cgi-bin/quixote.fcgi

    mod_fastcgi connects to the quixote.fcgi process (starting it
    if it doesn't exist, starting more if the load is high), and
    talks to it in a CGI-like way.  PATH_INFO is "/user/login".

    Quxiote takes all the CGI information and wraps it up as some
    nice objects.  It then traverses through some specified
    namespace trying to find a handler for the path.
    
    For the path above, the function is "login" in the module
    "user" in the package "ui".  Quixote calls the login
    function.  The return value is passed to Apache as the
    response.

This is only one part of what Quixote does (ie. the publishing
part).  It also does session management and templating.  PTL is a
general templating language with syntax and symantics very
similar to Python's.  In fact, we use the same bytecode
interpreter as Python.  Some simple HTML templates:

    template header(title):
        "<html><head><title>"
        title
        "</title></head><body>"
        "<h1>%s</h1>" % title

    template footer():
        "</body></html>"

    template my_page():
        header("Multiplication Fun")
        "<table>"
        for i in range(10):
            "<tr>"
            for j in range(10):
                "<td>%s x %s = %s</td>" % (i, j, i*j)
            "</tr>"
        "</table>"
        footer()

I hope I don't sound like I'm selling Quixote.  Quixote is still
changing quite dramaticly as we improve it.  We are not in the
business of building and supporting web development environments.
Zope has similar features and is much more mature.  I understand
Quixote and not Zope.  That's not saying Zope is hard.  I helped
implement Quioxte while I haven't really used Zope.  

Writing a web application environment using Python is not hard.
Using one will pay off big if your website is at all complex.

Cheers,

  Neil



From glenfant at equod.com.nospam  Fri Jan  5 09:42:22 2001
From: glenfant at equod.com.nospam (Gilles Lenfant)
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 15:42:22 +0100
Subject: newbie : edit sys.path on WinNT
References: <9339sf$fit$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <934m71$e66$1@reader1.imaginet.fr>

A way to do it:

Append the registry key below with the directory that contains "Numeric.py"

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Python\PythonCore\1.5\PythonPath

Or you can use "foo.pth" file in the closest directory from your python path
that contains your package.

1st way will work for Windows only

2nd way may work in any system.

<buster2642 at my-deja.com> a ?crit dans le message news:
9339sf$fit$1 at nnrp1.deja.com...
> I just installed NumPy16_152 into my 'D:\Program Files\Python' folder.
> How do I "permanently" add this to sys.path so 'import Numeric'
> succeeds?  I may or may not have admin access to the NT box to do this..
>
> (http://sourceforge.net/projects/numpy has NumPy zip archives for
> Python 1.52/1.6/2.0 on Win32)
>
> Thanks
>
> Chuck
>
>
> Sent via Deja.com
> http://www.deja.com/



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Jan 26 12:22:15 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 18:22:15 +0100
Subject: xor operator?
References: <20010126125141.18593.qmail@nw128.netaddress.usa.net> <mailman.980517875.10931.python-list@python.org> <3A7188A9.1482CA3D@divalsim.it> <3A71951D.20A2@hvision.nl> <Fihc6.6515$Ch.1522702@newsrump.sjc.telocity.net>
Message-ID: <94sbo702lon@news2.newsguy.com>

"savitsk" <dsavitsk at e-coli.net> wrote in message
news:Fihc6.6515$Ch.1522702 at newsrump.sjc.telocity.net...
    [snip]
> > > > the only language I'm famialiar with, with a boolean XOR operation
:)
> >
> for better or worse, visual basic 6 has an Xor operator (according to VB &
> VBA in a nutshell, pg. 611)

Sure, but, as the same excellent nutshell book indicates in the
same page, it's *bitwise* -- 15 Xor 179 is worth 188.  It is
thus roughly equivalent to the ^ operator of Python and is not
the 'boolean' kind that I think is being discussed.


Alex





From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Wed Jan 31 03:24:22 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 09:24:22 +0100
Subject: Roadmap wanted: Python access to SPIRIT.OCX (Win9x)
References: <3a7b39da.39409649@news.muenster.de>
Message-ID: <958i3j0mk4@news2.newsguy.com>

"Martin Bless" <m.bless at gmx.de> wrote in message
news:3a7b39da.39409649 at news.muenster.de...
> (1) Learning Python ist fun.
> (2) Playing with the LEGO Mindstorms system building robots is fun.
>
> Using Python to control LEGO Mindstorms would be triple fun.
>
> Everything in LEGO is controlled by a fully registered SPIRIT.OCX
> (Win9x)
>
> (3) Is somebody already using Python to control SPIRIT.OCX?

Not me (another fascinating timesink being the LAST thing I
need:-) but I do understand why one would!-)


> (4) And can somebody give me a short roadmap how to proceed?

I guess you start by navigating to http://www.legomindstorms.com/sdk/SDK.asp
(accepting a page of legalese on the way) and downloading the
467 KB zipped technical docs (other pointers are at
http://www.holdren.com/scott/legos/ etc etc).

Then, you somehow get the spirit.ocx control on your machine
(sorry, I have no URLs for that), register it (regsvr32 or
whatever else you prefer to use for Active/X registration),
then you run makepy on it -- oh yes, for COM work with Python
you DO need Hammond's win32all extensions, either as a
separate package downloadable from the ActiveState site
for addition to pythonlabs' standard Python distribution
for Windows, or as a part of the ActivePython distribution
which you can download directly from ActiveState.

Easiest way to run makepy is from the PythonWin IDE, under
the Tools menu; you do have to know the "human-readable
name" of the type library that gets registered along with
the Active/X control.  Or you can run makepy.py directly
(e.g. from a DOS box) giving it the path to your ocx file
(which must be registered anyway, I think), I believe.

Now begins the interesting part.  If spirit.ocx is well
designed, it lets you instantiate it as a simple COM
server, without full-fledged Active/X hosting/embedding
overhead -- as it should have no indispensable GUI part,
it SHOULD let you do this (if, again, it IS well designed).

If this is the case, then just calling win32com.client.Dispatch
with, as argument, the ProgId of COM objects supplied by
spirit.ocx will let you instantiate such objects and
start calling methods and reading/writing properties on
them.  If you need to respond to COM events too, then
consider win32com.client.DispatchWithEvents -- to that
one, you must also pass a class object of your own which
defines the event-response methods you want to be called
when events are fired (there are alternatives, but this
one is pragmatically -- if not conceptually -- simplest
when applicable; the alternatives are mainly for getting
events from objects you don't directly instantiate, but
rather must get from get-active-object, or from methods,
properties, collections, etc, of OTHER objects yet).

If spirit.ocx insists on being hosted by a full-fledged
Active/X host, then your best bet is to use Internet
Explorer for the purpose -- see the OBJECT tag.  You
can fully control IE from Python in many different ways
("HTML Applications", aka HTA, maybe the most direct),
and IE can host just about any Active/X control you
may have around (HTA's have no special security issues).

There are other ways to 'fully host Active/X controls',
but none is as simple as exploiting work already done
on your behalf (by the designers of IE, VB forms,
MFC frames, ATL composite controls with a few twists
as applied and explained in a great MSJ article, Delphi
forms, etc, etc) -- of these, IE is what just about
any Windows box will have around & requires no special
non-python programming for you to control it (well, a
BIT of HTML, yes, if you call THAT programming:-).


One way or another, once you do have instantiated the
object[s] from spirit.ocx, then it's just a matter of
calling their methods etc -- you can probably start
by transposing to Python the VB example Lego gives.
It's probably a good way to learn the practical issues
of Python COM programming: case sensitivity, care
about [out] and [in,out] arguments, etc.  Nothing TOO
terrible though!-)


Alex





From claird at starbase.neosoft.com  Tue Jan 30 17:20:05 2001
From: claird at starbase.neosoft.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: 30 Jan 2001 16:20:05 -0600
Subject: Should I learn Python or Java?
References: <HEO56.5504$y9.2881293@typhoon.we.rr.com> <978840685.459818@emperor.labs.agilent.com> <3A5DF377.791E3DE0@comm.mot.com> <957cpm$rnc$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <DD135E7AD837C681.C31890943199D7B1.BB5EBE8CF7654E06@lp.airnews.net>

In article <957cpm$rnc$1 at nnrp1.deja.com>,  <bzhou at my-deja.com> wrote:
>In article <3A5DF377.791E3DE0 at comm.mot.com>,
>  stepheb at comm.mot.com wrote:
>>
>> Can anyone recommend some literature about design patterns that would
>be
>> helpful to someone learning to program python?
			.
			.
			.
>"The Design Pattern Smalltalk companion" is a terrific book. Python in
>lots of ways is more close to Smalltalk than C++/java. Once you go over
>the syntax barrier, it's an easier read compared to the GoF book.
>
>"Thinking in Patterns with Java" by Bruce Eckel
>is available online at http://www.topica.com/lists/TIPatterns/
>It uses jpython as example of Interpreter pattern.
			.
			.
			.
Bruce, incidentally, has written that "Python is my
favorite language."

I'll also recommend you poke around in
<URL: http://lambda.weblogs.com/ >, where you'll find
people with deep interest in patterns and Pythons.

Is there pattern chatter on any of the SIGs?  EDU?
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at NeoSoft.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://starbase.neosoft.com/~claird/home.html


From phd at phd.pp.ru  Thu Jan  4 11:29:12 2001
From: phd at phd.pp.ru (Oleg Broytmann)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 19:29:12 +0300 (MSK)
Subject: How to send cookies
In-Reply-To: <newscache$ylbn6g$ss1$1@news.cesatel.es>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0101041928070.6935-100000@fep132.fep.ru>

On Thu, 4 Jan 2001, David L?pez wrote:
> My question is about cookies. I don?t know how to send or receive cookies in
> Python. Could someone give me a explained example?

   Python 2.0 has standard module Cookie.py - just read it, all neccessary
instructions and examples are there.
   For Python 1.5.2 you have to download Cookie.py from the Net.

Oleg.
----
     Oleg Broytmann            http://phd.pp.ru/            phd at phd.pp.ru
           Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN.




From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Tue Jan 23 05:47:43 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 11:47:43 +0100
Subject: Python as a web server?
References: <980242697.576973@shelley.paradise.net.nz>
Message-ID: <94jngf018sb@news1.newsguy.com>

"Aaron" <a at a.a> wrote in message
news:980242697.576973 at shelley.paradise.net.nz...
> Hi all, I was wanting to dable in writing a very simple online turn based
> game, and was wondering if python could manage the server and client side
of
> things? I'd need database access on the server, and would need to be able
to
> get the client to print text of course, and draw some simple graphics like
> lines, circles, fills, points and the odd image.

Yes, Python might be quite suitable.  It comes with Python-implemented
simple servers (one for just-HTTP, and one for CGI-or-close-to-it), and
it can also easily cooperate with more powerful general purpose servers
in several ways (CGI, Fast-CGI, LRWP [for Xitami], Apache-specific ways,
IIS-specific ways, and more) -- you need not use HTTP, but that has
several advantages if you can, and the 'turn-based game' approach seems
quite suitable for the request-response model underlying HTTP.

Python offers several ways to provide 'database access' -- depending on
your needs, a simple dbm-like (non-relational) DB might suffice (the
Berkeley one is good, for example), you could use Python-coded Gadfly
(for SQL-based relational DB operation), or interface to whatever
'real' relational DBMS you prefer.

You could use a 'thick client' to provide the graphics you require, or
generate it server-side (as, say, PNG's, ideally -- GIF's are also a
possibility, but you may not want to get embroiled in the licensing
requirements for them) -- or use some compromise, such as SVG (the
'Scalable Vector Graphics' standard for the web, see for example:
http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/Overview.htm8
and require that the client be a browser WITH a plug-in or something
to render the SVG parts of the page).  Thin-client solutions (where
the client is just a browser, or, at worst, a browser plus some kind
of plug-in) tend to have deployment advantages if you can live within
their limitations.  But if you go the thick-client route, Python IS
ok for that too -- and, with PIL (the Python Imaging Library) it's
also excellent for generating images on the fly on the server side.

You might also choose to do a client that runs as an applet inside
a browser's JVM (although I would not advise this) -- if you do
choose this, then Jython is a better choice than naked-Java for
your coding (Jython is the Python version that can generate JVM
bytecode that can run together with Java-generated code, etc).

In other words: while there are several architectural possibilities,
Python is just about the best choice for ANY combination of choices
you can make regarding your architecture.


> Could someone tell me if this is possible or should I use something else
> (Like php). If python is the way to go do you have any links on python
> server writing?

PHP would severely limit your choices, I think (no client-side, and
I don't know how it could interface a Berkely DBM, or easily build
server-side images on the fly, etc, etc).  Python seems the ideal
choice.

You'll get an excellent overview of Python technologies for the web at:
http://starbase.neosoft.com/~claird/comp.lang.python/web_python.html.

But it IS about the technologies -- not really about how you design
your server application, how you choose between server-side, client-
side, and compromises such as SVG, and so on.  Those are issues which
do interact with technology-choices, but are really pretty distinct
from them, except in as much as a given technology may constrain the
available architecture-choice and design space.

My personal advice is: start as simple as you possibly can (and STAY
simple as long as you possibly can).  Do a prototype that is strictly
CGI (simplest; you can run it under any HTTP server of your choice!),
build the images on the server side (with PIL), use dbm if you possibly
can (easier than SQL and a relational DB, if your needs are few) --
get such a prototype to a very-bare-functional-minimum stage, and see
if you can't just deploy THAT.  You'll need to add something, and
quite possibly refactor (perhaps heavily) around identified bottlenecks,
but HAVING a prototype will make your further design job MUCH easier --
you can get feedback from non-technically-savvy users, who would not be
able to contribute if you DIDN'T have a running prototype to show them!

Technological sophistication (most of the above-mentioned technology
possibilities) can come in at the 'refactor to eliminate bottlenecks'
stage, *IF* needed.  Starting with an overly-general, complicated,
very sophisticated architecture, catering to superbly generalized
potential that's never really going to be needed, is a prime cause
of ambitious software projects' failures...!-)


Alex





From mwh21 at cam.ac.uk  Thu Jan 18 13:21:01 2001
From: mwh21 at cam.ac.uk (Michael Hudson)
Date: 18 Jan 2001 18:21:01 +0000
Subject: interesting bound-built-in-method technique
References: <9476k6$d55$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <m34ryw3enm.fsf@atrus.jesus.cam.ac.uk>

Chris Ryland <cpr at emsoftware.com> writes:

> Reading the Quixote sources taught me an interesting little "hack"
> using bound-built-in methods:
> 
> >>> m = {'foo': 1, 'bar': 0}.has_key
> >>> m('foo')
> 1
> >>> m('bar')
> 0
> 
> Is this a common idiom in Python? Very clever for turning a dictionary
> lookup into a functional form.

Not exactly common, but I've done things like this before - bound
methods rock :-)

> Are there other clever but generally obscure idia? (Idioms? ;-)

Probably hundreds, although no examples spring to mind (almost by
definition!).  But bear in mind that the more obscure an idiom is, the
less likely it is to be a good idea.

Python code that I've just thrown together quickly sometimes ends
containing alarmingly hairy code, but I can't find any just now (and I
wouldn't recommand emulating it if I could!).

Ooh, here's one bit:

def disp_str(buffer):
    s = map(_my_unctrl, buffer)
    return (''.join(s),
            map(ord, ''.join(map(lambda x:'\001'+(len(x)-1)*'\000', s))))

The irritating thing about this code is that I can't think of a
quicker way to rewrite it (it's called in a hotspot) other than
writing it in C...

Cheers,
M.

-- 
  Indeed, when I design my killer language, the identifiers "foo" and
  "bar" will be reserved words, never used, and not even mentioned in
  the reference manual. Any program using one will simply dump core
  without comment. Multitudes will rejoice. -- Tim Peters, 29 Apr 1998


From moshez at zadka.site.co.il  Fri Jan 26 01:11:13 2001
From: moshez at zadka.site.co.il (Moshe Zadka)
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 08:11:13 +0200 (IST)
Subject: what GUI, please advise
In-Reply-To: <20010124181423.B26798@harmony.cs.rit.edu>
References: <20010124181423.B26798@harmony.cs.rit.edu>, <3A6F18F2.536F27FE@crepido.com> <3A6F0B27.A88D11C9@crepido.com> <756399CF731B46D9.57530C0D0C9C2171.472E737DF76189F7@lp.airnews.net> <mailman.980360668.7701.python-list@python.org> <7DA74694B63ED42A.83CB11913E3910C5.C8BE5B392AC1AC5C@lp.airnews.net>
Message-ID: <20010126061113.CFEAAA840@darjeeling.zadka.site.co.il>

On Wed, 24 Jan 2001 18:14:24 -0500, D-Man <dsh8290 at rit.edu> wrote:

> (steering the discussion in my direction ...)
> 
> What is the general feeling of GTK+ vs. wxWindows?

Very inflammatory <wink>

As a big piece of advice, note that GTK+ doesn't work really well
on Windows. Fact of life.

Personally, I usually screw Win-UNIX portability, but that's me.
-- 
Moshe Zadka <sig at zadka.site.co.il>
This is a signature anti-virus. 
Please stop the spread of signature viruses!
Fingerprint: 4BD1 7705 EEC0 260A 7F21  4817 C7FC A636 46D0 1BD6



From moshez at zadka.site.co.il  Tue Jan  9 10:12:58 2001
From: moshez at zadka.site.co.il (Moshe Zadka)
Date: Tue,  9 Jan 2001 17:12:58 +0200 (IST)
Subject: Web devel with python. Whats the best route?
In-Reply-To: <93dfqm07la@news1.newsguy.com>
References: <93dfqm07la@news1.newsguy.com>, <Pine.BSF.4.21.0101071733170.29753-100000@open-systems.net> <mailman.978936788.24717.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <20010109151258.C2C09A82D@darjeeling.zadka.site.co.il>

[Moshe Zadka]
> The only thing I'm pretty certain about is that PyApache has been superseded
> by mod_apache. Other then that, all have strong points, so you should pick

[Alex Martelli]
> I know I'm confused, but, isn't mod_apache some other Apache
> module (that, I think, has something to do with configuring the
> webserver itself)?  How does it supersede PyApache?  Tx for
> clarifications on this...!

mod_* in Apache can be compiled both statically into Apache and dynamically.
PyApache, AFAIK, supported only static compilation (I may be totally wrong
on this, though). In any case, both do the same thing: maintain the granularity
of CGI scripts (IOW, no support for taking over specific Apache handlers),
but optimize the process startup/interpreter startup overhead of CGI.
-- 
Moshe Zadka <sig at zadka.site.co.il>
This is a signature anti-virus. 
Please stop the spread of signature viruses!



From Dan.Rolander at marriott.com  Fri Jan 12 10:17:44 2001
From: Dan.Rolander at marriott.com (Rolander, Dan)
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 10:17:44 -0500
Subject: Installer Problem
Message-ID: <6176E3D8E36FD111B58900805FA7E0F80CCF62C1@mcnc-mdm1-ex01>

Can anyone help me understand this traceback I'm getting when trying to use
Gordon McMillan's Installer?

C:\Program Files\Installer\projects\actionizer>..\..\standalone.py action.py
File 'action.cfg' already exists. Overwrite? [yn]y
> "C:\Program Files\Python20\python.exe" C:\PROGRA~1\INSTAL~3\Builder.py
action.
cfg
opts: []
args: ['action.cfg']
Initializing
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "C:\PROGRA~1\INSTAL~3\Builder.py", line 502, in ?
    main(opts, args)
  File "C:\PROGRA~1\INSTAL~3\Builder.py", line 473, in main
    target = makeTarget(cfg, section)
  File "C:\PROGRA~1\INSTAL~3\Builder.py", line 416, in makeTarget
    return dispatch[cfg.get(section, 'type')](cfg, section, optcnvrts)
  File "C:\PROGRA~1\INSTAL~3\Builder.py", line 337, in __init__
    FullExeTarget.__init__(self, cfg, sectnm, cnvrts)
  File "C:\PROGRA~1\INSTAL~3\Builder.py", line 281, in __init__
    ArchiveTarget.__init__(self, cfg, sectnm, cnvrts)
  File "C:\PROGRA~1\INSTAL~3\Builder.py", line 245, in __init__
    CollectTarget.__init__(self, cfg, sectnm, cnvrts)
  File "C:\PROGRA~1\INSTAL~3\Builder.py", line 144, in __init__
    Target.__init__(self, cfg, sectnm, cnvrts)
  File "C:\PROGRA~1\INSTAL~3\Builder.py", line 34, in __init__
    print "Initializing", self.__name__
AttributeError: 'ExeTarget' instance has no attribute '__name__'

C:\Program Files\Installer\projects\actionizer>



From ykingma at accessforall.nl  Wed Jan 17 11:05:12 2001
From: ykingma at accessforall.nl (Ype Kingma)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 17:05:12 +0100
Subject: cross platform file lock
References: <943qij$had$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <3A65C2B0.55B90FDC@accessforall.nl>

Godefroid,

gotcha at swing.be wrote:
> 
> This is a newbie question...
> 
> But after browsing Python Library reference,
> Python FAQ, and comp.lang.python, I have not been
> able to determine if there is a cross platform
> file locking mechanism available for Python.
> 
> any help appreciated

It isn't there. In case you need to do interprocess
communication you can do it with files, eg. by
using two files:

Program A writes file1, and deletes file2.
Program B waits for deletion of file2 and then reads file1.
Program B writes it's answer in file2 and then deletes file1.
Program A meanwhile waits for deletion of file1 and the it
           reads file2.
Etc. etc.

This works. However, it is _slow_.

You are better off with sockets for IPC, these are also
more flexible.
I just made sth. that uses sockets and works in Jython,
it mike work in CPython also.

I have example python code for sockets, just ask.

In case you need still faster IPC you'll probably be
tied to sth platform specific, eg. memory mapped files
in Unix.
In my case sockets are good enough, even from Jython.

Regards,
Ype

-- 
email at xs4all.nl


From fredrik at effbot.org  Mon Jan  8 15:45:18 2001
From: fredrik at effbot.org (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2001 20:45:18 GMT
Subject: why no "do : until"?
References: <932r3e010bd@news1.newsguy.com><mailman.978660367.22251.python-list@python.org> <fvy9wlztq2.fsf@Borokay.AI.SRI.COM>
Message-ID: <yFp66.4730$Qb7.665832@newsb.telia.net>

David Morley wrote:
> What would be wrong with:
>
> class Indexing:
>     def __init__(self, thing):
>         self.thing = thing
>     def __getitem__(self, index):
>         return (index, self.thing[index])
>
> for (i,x) in Indexing(a):
>     ...

you stopped reading tim's post when you got to the
syntax proposal, right?

Cheers /F




From moshez at zadka.site.co.il  Sun Jan 14 10:39:58 2001
From: moshez at zadka.site.co.il (Moshe Zadka)
Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 17:39:58 +0200 (IST)
Subject: storing passwords
In-Reply-To: <93rdmr$ihu$1@flotsam.uits.indiana.edu>
References: <93rdmr$ihu$1@flotsam.uits.indiana.edu>
Message-ID: <20010114153958.4FDF6A828@darjeeling.zadka.site.co.il>

On Sun, 14 Jan 2001, "Brian Waskiewicz" <bwaskiew at indiana.edu> wrote:

> I have a Python script that makes a Telnet connectio to a remote server and
> right now I have the password just stored within my code.  I'd don't like
> the idea of leaving the password available like that (the script runs
> automatically every night, so I can't prompt the user for it), so is there
> any other way to store the password in some kind of encrypted fashion??

Read the fetchmail FAQ on ESR's site to see why this does not afford any
kind of protection.
(Hint: If you encrypt it, where would you put the key?)
-- 
Moshe Zadka <sig at zadka.site.co.il>
This is a signature anti-virus. 
Please stop the spread of signature viruses!



From fredrik at effbot.org  Thu Jan 18 17:22:56 2001
From: fredrik at effbot.org (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 22:22:56 GMT
Subject: Can Python clear a DOS screen?
References: <mailman.979855434.16210.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <41K96.7179$Qb7.1063615@newsb.telia.net>

Dan Rolander wrote:
> I've got a Python script that writes to a DOS console. Is it possible to
> have the script clear the screen?

    os.system("cls")

(it's as stupid as it looks, but it works everywhere.
print "\x1a[2J" can also work, but it usually doesn't)

For better control, consider using a console driver.
here's one:

    http://effbot.org/efflib/console

Cheers /F




From howard at eegsoftware.com  Wed Jan 10 01:52:59 2001
From: howard at eegsoftware.com (howard at eegsoftware.com)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 06:52:59 GMT
Subject: BLT2.4 with Pmw, Tcl8.3, Python2.0 and Win98 - how?
References: <3A5B4DDB.48FF7846@earth.ox.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <3a5c0600.50422872@news-server.socal.rr.com>

On Tue, 09 Jan 2001 17:43:55 +0000, Norman Charnley
<norman at earth.ox.ac.uk> wrote:

>I've been trying to move up to Python 2.0 under Windows 98, but I cannot
>persuade Pmw to see the Blt module. This was raised some time ago, but
>I've not seen a workable solution posted (a suggestion to put BLT24.DLL
>in the same directory as the Python executable did not fix it for me).
>Anybody have an answer?
Well, I "think" what made it work for me after all was installing the
BLT 2.4 directory (with the pkgIndex.tcl file) into the
\Python20\tcl\tcl8.3 
tree (so that the path to the pkgIndex.tcl looks like
     \Python20\tcl\tcl8.3\blt2.4
 ).

Please note:  I did this iteratively (trying to remember to restore
everything back to the 'vanilla' configuration) in the presence of
numerous interruptions.  Please don't try this at home.

>In addition, without a "normal" Tcl installation (using a version from
>Scriptics into C:\Tcl, not just the C:\Python20\tcl form that is
>installed by default) then .tcl scripts cannot be run simply by opening
>them, and Tcl_wish does not appear to be present. Is it possible to run
>Python2.0 with the normal installation - how is Python told where to
>find Tcl?

I was able to run the bltwish24.exe executable and run tcl scripts.
Howard Lightstone
EEGSoftware
howard at eegsoftware.com


From olczyk at interaccess.com  Mon Jan  8 12:34:49 2001
From: olczyk at interaccess.com (Thaddeus L. Olczyk)
Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2001 17:34:49 GMT
Subject: Grab text from html with user and pass???
References: <Z5g66.16889$0x5.1386532@news3.cableinet.net>
Message-ID: <3a5bfa32.11443812@nntp.interaccess.com>

On Mon, 08 Jan 2001 09:52:57 GMT, "Paul Goodyear"
<paul at gudge.demon.co.uk> wrote:

>I am trying to pull out a Ip address from a .html file,
>
>I have done this successfully already BUT,
>
>The site has a password, the username is blank and the pass word is ****
>blah blah
>
>When I run the
>
>[code]      url.urlopen('http://www.blah.com/ip.html')
>
>all I get is "Enter username for ** at ** :"   if i press just return I am
>then asked for the password, after entering the password the process just
>keeps repeating.
>
>I know for well that the password is correct, I just need it to accept a
>blank username
>
>Regards,
>
>Paul Goodyear
>
I believe it is sent as data probably url?user=dddd&passwd=rrrr.
The best way to find out.
There is a perl package called HttpSniffer.pl (  someone mention if
there is a similar python module ).
Point your browser ( set you http proxy to ) localhost:8080 and start
the perl script ( preferably under emacs or using tee ).
Then go to the web page, enter a fake  but easily grepable user and
passwd. HTTPSniffer prints the headers you send so just grep the
output for where the user and passwd went.


From aahz at panix.com  Sat Jan 27 23:41:54 2001
From: aahz at panix.com (Aahz Maruch)
Date: 27 Jan 2001 20:41:54 -0800
Subject: python-2.1 function attributes
References: <mailman.980642436.24511.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9507ui$csu$1@panix6.panix.com>

In article <mailman.980642436.24511.python-list at python.org>,
Tim Peters <tim.one at home.com> wrote:
>[Aahz Maruch]
>> One thing I'm not clear on from all this discussion is whether one
>> can do this:
>>
>> def f():
>>     f.a = 1
>
>Sure, but there's no magic here:

Yes.  I'm not the kind of evil, twisted person who'd do something like
that, but I'm sure *someone* here is.
-- 
                      --- Aahz (Copyright 2001 by aahz at pobox.com)

Androgynous poly kinky vanilla queer het    <*>     http://www.rahul.net/aahz/
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6

"I heard Commentary and Dissent had merged and formed Dysentary."


From grey at despair.rpglink.com  Thu Jan 18 16:22:06 2001
From: grey at despair.rpglink.com (Steve Lamb)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 21:22:06 -0000
Subject: I must be missing something obvious: os.path.isexecutable?
Message-ID: <slrn96enju.g1v.grey@teleute.rpglink.com>

    OK, working on converting a friend's Perl script to configure network/X
configuration based on the configuratio of the computer at the time of boot to
Python.  I'm stumped by what seems to be something that should be simple in
Python but is not.

Perlism:

if ((-l "$xbin_dir/X) && (-x "$xbin_dir/X.linux)){
  blahblahblah
}

Python:

if (os.path.islink('%sXF86Config' % ($xconfigdir)) and ???????):
  blahblahblah

    I cannot, for the life of me, find a comparable call in Python to replace
the -x call in Perl.  The closest I have come is doing an os.stat() call on
the file in question and then doing a painful parsing of the mode itself.  I
would have thought there would have been a comparable call in os.path or os
but there is not.  Also looked into os.stat() to see if there was something I
was missing there, no go.  Finally checked the FAQs on www.python.org and
tried to do a check on deja.com to no avail.  Am I just missing something
painfully obvious?

-- 
         Steve C. Lamb         | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your
         ICQ: 5107343          | main connection to the switchboard of souls.
-------------------------------+---------------------------------------------


From bashanguy at hotmail.com  Sat Jan 27 12:24:54 2001
From: bashanguy at hotmail.com (guy bashan)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 19:24:54 +0200
Subject: DataBase support
Message-ID: <3a72fff7@news.bezeqint.net>

Hello,

I'm new to Python, and just installed the Komodo working with AcivePython
2.0.  I gave a little overview over the syntax and built-in capabilities and
was really impressed.  But I couldn't notice any database support. Was I
missing something ??    Does Python have any class dealing with databases
and tables ??

Thanks.
Bashan.




From zippy1984 at my-deja.com  Thu Jan 25 08:36:45 2001
From: zippy1984 at my-deja.com (zippy1984 at my-deja.com)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 13:36:45 GMT
Subject: win32com.client - need some help
References: <94mjj8$v3g$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <94mrs102b3i@news2.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <94pa5c$aqb$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

>
> Pretty unusual VB usage, but, yes, it does happen.  It's unclear
> to me whether the single argument of method getDictionary is
> [out] or [in,out] -- presumably just [out]...?  VB is often
> not crystal-clear about such things (which yet ARE crucial --
> resource leaks are possible if one gets confused) and looking
> at the IDL for the type library in question is quite a good idea
> (VB Professional, I think, comes with the "OLE Viewer" which,
> among many other precious uses, lets one look at the IDL of any
> type library; if it doesn't, then get the Platform SDK download,
> THAT one surely does come with oleview.exe and it's free, though
> rather big to get).

Here is a snip of the IDL file:

   HRESULT getDictionary([out] IDispatch** pDictionary);
   [id(0x12345678)]

>
> > Python:
> >    import win32com.client
> >    ob = win32com.client.Dispatch("some.object.1")  # ok
>
> Do make sure makepy.py HAS been run on the typelibrary whence
> some.object comes from, though.  To ensure that, you may use:

Here is a snip of the generated .py file:

   def getDictionary(self, pDictionary=defaultNamedNotOptArg):
      return self._ApplyTypes_(0x12345678, 1, (24, 0), ((16393, 2),), \
                     'getDictionary', None,pDictionary)

>
> Once makepy has operated on the type library, [out] arguments
> are transformed into return values, so:
>
>     dic = ob.getDictionary()
>

Yes, I am able to call this way using the generated classes, and also
without...  This is what happens:

>>> dic = ob.getDictionary()
>>> dic
<COMObject getDictionary>

I find this strange...getDictionary is just the method, in VB I here
get an instance of the IDictionary, which has the getValue method
I need (IDictionary is a subclass of IDispatch).  This is what
happens now:

>>> val = dic.getValue('Version')
Traceback (innermost last):
  File "<interactive input>", line 1, in ?
  File "C:\Python20\win32com\client\dynamic.py", line 435, in
__getattr__
    raise AttributeError, "%s.%s", % (self._username_, attr)
AttributeError: getDictionary.getValue
>>>

Not unexpected, as getDictionary does not have a getValue method....


So, what is going on here?  Any idea?

I have quite a bit of experience with Python, but very little with
Windows and COM in general (and therefore win32com), so any help
is appriciated.



Tom


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From cobrien at Radix.Net  Sat Jan 27 08:29:21 2001
From: cobrien at Radix.Net (Cary O'Brien)
Date: 27 Jan 2001 08:29:21 -0500
Subject: sockets: client dies...
References: <94kmt5$cuj$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <94pn5h$t3e$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu> <94ppr8$qac$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <94pt9p$o6e$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <94uifh$2r$1@saltmine.radix.net>

In article <94pt9p$o6e$1 at nntp6.u.washington.edu>,
Donn Cave  <donn at u.washington.edu> wrote:
>Quoth Keith Murphy <kpmurphy at my-deja.com>:
>...
>| if i don't setblocking to 0, then it will get hung up on one client...
>| waiting for a message, right?  i'm afraid i don't know what select()
>| is...
>|
>| i guess what i'd like is a better way to sit around and listen to n
>| hosts, and be able to detect when one has died.
>
>select() is documented, it's in the select module.  If you want to
>really understand sockets and a lot more, the classic reference is
>Stevens, any decent bookstore will have it.  If you want a solution
>already written in Python, asyncore in the standard distribution
>might be worth a look.  
>

Also check out my personal favorite lately, the SocketServer and TCPServer
modules.

-- cary















From phil at river-bank.demon.co.uk  Wed Jan 31 07:52:34 2001
From: phil at river-bank.demon.co.uk (phil at river-bank.demon.co.uk)
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 12:52:34 -0000
Subject: COMMERCIAL: BlackAdder Windows/Linux Python GUI Development Environment
Message-ID: <9591qi+iloc@eGroups.com>

The cunning plan continues...

theKompany.com is pleased to announce the immediate availability of
the first Beta release of BlackAdder, a commercial Windows/Linux IDE
for Python and the Qt GUI toolkit.

A demonstration version is also available as a free download.

Full details can be found at
http://www.thekompany.com/products/blackadder/.

BlackAdder includes...
- a project explorer
- a Python aware editor
- a GUI form designer
- a debugger
- an interactive Python interpreter
- the Qt GUI toolkit
- the mxODBC extension module
- 50 Mbytes HTML documentation
- a 20% discount  voucher from O'Reilly.

BlackAdder is available in two editions, the Personal Edition and the
Business Edition. The Business Edition allows the run-time elements of
BlackAdder (except for mxODBC) to be re-distributed with your
applications at no extra cost.

Phil




From paulb at infercor.no  Mon Jan 15 08:05:39 2001
From: paulb at infercor.no (Paul Boddie)
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 14:05:39 +0100
Subject: More on web development
References: <0hr16t4gt4vp72b8aqcs0tup6ddcs1urtr@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3A62F5A3.1EA46210@infercor.no>

Tim Roberts wrote:
> 
> The recent thread on web development techniques and templating vs
> Python-as-HTML has been very helpful.  I wonder if I might explore
> another aspect of this, which actually relates more to using Python in
> larger applications.

I would point you to the Web modules overview page I did, but the pages have
been mislaid in an upgrade at the hosting provider, I think. I still have a
slightly older copy if you're interested, though.

> There are a number of ways to architect a Python-based web site with
> many pages.  I have tended to build my site with one script per page, so
> that the URL simply points to the .py file.  I'm now realizing this has
> a number of disdvantages.  For one thing, it can be difficult to share
> global state. I've tried to put common things, including instances of
> global data, into a "common.py", but since common.py has to be imported
> into almost every file, there seem to be multiple instance issues.

Indeed. Unless you're using a framework with or within the Web server which
orchestrates the accesses to each of those programs, and has only one instance
of "common.py" around, it's likely that many Python processes will be created
and each of those will have its own instance of "common.py" (or more
appropriately, the "common" module).

> I'm wondering now if it would be better to have the whole site
> dispatched by a single script, using the PATH_INFO part of the URL to
> identify a command to be executed.  Does anyone have any feelings about
> this?

This has been done a lot since the days of Bobo (ZPublisher). However, it's
probably best not to roll your own framework unless you're completely aware of
the security risks of having the URL determine the "command" or function to be
executed. For example, if you decide that a URL can indicate a module to be
imported and a function to be invoked, it is essential that the choice of
modules to be imported and the choice of functions to be invoked is restricted
in some way. Otherwise, someone could use a URL which imports the "os" module
and invokes the "system" function.

> I'm also considering switching my global state from module-based to
> class instance-based.  The biggest advantage to this, it seems to me, is
> that I no longer need to worry about importing my common.py everywhere.
> I can pass the global class instance around and call the methods without
> the import, and without worrying about nested import dependencies.
> 
> Any advice from the more experienced Python web developers?

I would use one of the existing frameworks myself. Indeed, I'm currently rather
interested in Webware - it seems to be fairly easy to understand and extend.

Regards,

Paul


From peter at peermetrics.com  Wed Jan 17 22:21:56 2001
From: peter at peermetrics.com (peter at peermetrics.com)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 03:21:56 GMT
Subject: peer-to-peer in python
Message-ID: <945ngf$731$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

I am looking for good Python developers to help me out with a peer-to-
peer system (written entirely in Python.)  We have a working demo /
prototype app with some awesome features and technology and I need some
help turning it into a serious (commercial-quality) platform & SDK.
Look at http://www.peermetrics.com and let me know what you think.
Thanks,

Peter
peter at peermetrics.com


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From jcaldero at ic.sunysb.edu  Wed Jan 31 17:35:47 2001
From: jcaldero at ic.sunysb.edu (Jp Calderone)
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 17:35:47 -0500
Subject: redirecting output
Message-ID: <3A789343.48002B2C@ic.sunysb.edu>


  I've attached the python interpreter to a server,
essentially letting people connect to the given address
and port and pump stuff into it.  What I can't figure out
is how I might go about redirecting the output from some
of the builtin functions - dir(), print, etc, to their
socket.  Is this possible?

 Thanks in advance,
   Jp


From tdelaney at avaya.com  Mon Jan 22 18:33:55 2001
From: tdelaney at avaya.com (Delaney, Timothy)
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 10:33:55 +1100
Subject: How do I know all thrown exceptions of a function?
Message-ID: <B43D149A9AB2D411971300B0D03D7E8B0FBDF9@natasha.auslabs.avaya.com>

> What about exceptions raised by dependent APIs?  I mean, suppose for
> example that the exceptions raised by the file object, or the sys
> module, changes in Python 2.1;  your API is now liable to raise a
> new exception thanks to those changes.  Are you supposed to account
> for that as part of your API?  In the same release, or later when
> you find out about it?
> 
> I agree that an interface does include exceptions, but it isn't so
> clear how much can reasonably be specified.  Exceptions generated
> in the immediate vicinity is one thing;  "all thrown exceptions of
> a function" is another.
> 
> ... to me exception handling feels like the most
> unfinished part of Python.  Unfortunately I don't have any real
> ideas about it, I just find exception handling relatively error
> prone when it should be the opposite.

I agree here. Personally, I think Java's view of exceptions (almost) makes
sense.

Here is my take on things:

Four built-in exception classes, three of which form the basis for "trees"
of exceptions:

	Exception
		type(Exception) == <type 'Exception'>
		used for "normal" exceptional circumstances - these
		need to be declared

		SilentException(Exception)
			type(SilentException) == <type 'SilentException'>
			used for things which should normally just pass
			through (such as index-out-of-bounds) - these don't
			need to be declared.

			UndeclaredException(SilentException)
				Raised when an undeclared Exception is
raised

	Error
		type(Error) == <type 'Error'>
		used for "really bad" things which probably can't be
		recovered - these don't need to be declared

A function needs to declare all the Exceptions it will raise. If a function
raises an Exception it doesn't declare, instead an UndeclaredException is
raised with the raised Exception as its data.

SilentException is a subclass of Exception so you can continue to do

try:
except Exception:

Things like index-out-of-bounds should be SilentException so they don't
explicity need to be declared in just about every function around.

There would be no requirement to catch any type of exception, whether
declared or not.

I think this covers all worries with backwards compatibility, whilst moving
towards a well-defined exception system.

Tim Delaney
Avaya Australia



From thomas at xs4all.net  Fri Jan 26 09:02:31 2001
From: thomas at xs4all.net (Thomas Wouters)
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 15:02:31 +0100
Subject: xor operator?
In-Reply-To: <20010126125141.18593.qmail@nw128.netaddress.usa.net>; from def-p@usa.net on Fri, Jan 26, 2001 at 05:51:41AM -0700
References: <20010126125141.18593.qmail@nw128.netaddress.usa.net>
Message-ID: <20010126150231.J962@xs4all.nl>

On Fri, Jan 26, 2001 at 05:51:41AM -0700, Def P wrote:

> I notice that there doesn't seem to be a boolean xor operator in Python. Does
> someone know the reasons behind this? 

Very few languages have a boolean xor operation. I don't know any off the
top of my head, but if I'd have to make a guess, I'd say that INTERCAL was
the only language I'm famialiar with, with a boolean XOR operation :)

The simple reason is 'it isn't shortcuttable'. That is, with 'and' and 'or',
whether or not to evaluate the second argument is based on the outcome of
the first. xor requires you to always evaluate both. In the specific Python
sense, the return value of the boolean xor operation would also be vague.

(In Python 'a and b' returns a if a is false, or otherwise b. Similarly, 'a
or b' returns a if a is true, otherwise b. That means you can do stuff like
'l = a or []'. What would 'a xor b' return ? A if a is true, but b is false,
B if b is true, a is false, that much is 'obvious'. Then what? Return a, or
b, if a and b are both false ? And what about if a and b are both true ?
return (a,b) ? ;-P)

And lastly, I only once had use for a boolean xor operator (in Perl, at the
time), and after realizing there wasn't one, I also realized I didn't really
want a boolean xor operator at all, I really wanted an if/elif/else
construction.

What construction do you need the boolean xor operation for ? Isn't it more
obvious to use an if/elif/else contstruction ?

-- 
Thomas Wouters <thomas at xs4all.net>

Hi! I'm a .signature virus! copy me into your .signature file to help me spread!



From jqcordova at my-deja.com  Sat Jan 27 19:45:07 2001
From: jqcordova at my-deja.com (jqcordova at my-deja.com)
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 00:45:07 GMT
Subject: New way to explain Python?
Message-ID: <94vq2j$m9o$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

I've spent the last couple of years building well-known e-commerce
sites using Open Source code. Turns out that I spent a fair amount of
time teaching Python to jr. programmers. I found that the most
effective way to impart knowledge was the so-called Socratic method of
question/answer. I got so tired of going through the question/answer
ritual with each new engineer, that I put together a website
www.codecity.com to do the job for me. Now, it's taken on a life of
it's own and I thought I would tell this group about it as you may find
it useful too. If you could provide some feedback and maybe even submit
a quiz or two through the site, it would be highly appreciated.

Thankyou,

Jeff C.
www.codecity.com


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From grante at visi.com  Thu Jan 18 10:47:48 2001
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 15:47:48 GMT
Subject: Displaying HTMLs with Tkinter
References: <945db6$umq$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <945g0b$sd$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <3A66C964.46EEE52C@mail.dvz.fh-koeln.de> <946n3c$p48$1@news.nuri.net>
Message-ID: <EeE96.318$eI2.154169@ruti.visi.com>

In article <946n3c$p48$1 at news.nuri.net>, June Kim wrote:
>
>> > The Tk module indeed does have the capability to display HTML.
>> > If you look in the Demos/www directory in the standard Python
>> > distribution, try running "www8.py file:<filename>" and
>> > "www12.py file:<filename>". [end of quote]
>
>The tkinter demos from Python 1.5.2 spit out raw html texts to text widgets.
>If you want to interpret and show them like a web browser, just as
>wxHTMLWindow does, you'd better look for Grail or PySol.
>However, PySol's tkhtml doesn't seem work very well with general HTMLs --
>it's too slow and heavy. Haven't tried Grail yet.

The STk (Scheme/Tk) package contains rudimentary browser code
that renders HTML onto a canvas widget (display of GIF images
is supported). It should be fairly easy to translate it into
Python.  I don't recall if it supports tables, forms or
anything fancy like that.

  http://kaolin.unicr.fr/STk/

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  I've been WRITING
                                  at               to SOPHIA LOREN every 45
                               visi.com            MINUTES since JANUARY 1ST!!


From s2mdalle at titan.vcu.edu  Thu Jan 11 16:30:56 2001
From: s2mdalle at titan.vcu.edu (David Allen)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 21:30:56 GMT
Subject: New Gopher Client
Message-ID: <kCp76.4424$CN6.913911@typhoon2.ba-dsg.net>

Hello,

I'm posting this to announce a gopher client I've been
working on in Python recently.  It's written using
Pmw and Tkinter, and has been reported to work on 
windows, although I haven't personally tried it there.

If you've never used Gopher before, I recommend you
give it a shot, and if you have used gopher before,
maybe it's time to give it another shot.  I would
appreciate any feedback or patches that anyone is
willing to contribute to the package, particularly
to clear up some extremely puzzling very hard to
reproduce problems with Tkinter and Pmw.  (Involving
infrequent segmentation faults even)

The package is written in nothing but Python, and
is available at 
http://opop.nols.com/proggie/forg-latest.tar.gz

If you have the ability to use CVS, you can check
out the latest sources from CVS using the following
commands:

export CVSROOT=:pserver:anonymous at pi.complete.org:/var/cvs
cvs co clients/forg

The tarball listed above is usually a bit behind
the CVS archive, but not much.
-- 
David Allen
http://opop.nols.com/
----------------------------------------


From gradha at iname.com  Tue Jan 16 17:22:29 2001
From: gradha at iname.com (gradha at iname.com)
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 23:22:29 +0100
Subject: Strange variable scope... is this right?
References: <gcqp39.jkk.ln@127.0.0.1> <M4%76.5851$Qb7.837342@newsb.telia.net>
Message-ID: <5jh249.8p5.ln@127.0.0.1>

Fredrik Lundh <fredrik at effbot.org> wrote:
> Don't have time for a detailed explanation, but I suggest
> you spend a little time reading up on how names, objects,
> and assignments really work in Python.  Start here:

Thank you very much for the links, they have cleared a lot of questions
about namespaces and such. In fact, at the moment I think that the way
Python does (un)binding and rebinding of names is pretty cool :)

-- 

 Grzegorz Adam Hankiewicz   gradha at iname.com - http://gradha.infierno.org
 Other web pages:  http://glub.ehu.es/  -  http://welcome.to/gogosoftware/


From parz at home.com  Sat Jan 27 11:32:46 2001
From: parz at home.com (Parzival Herzog)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 16:32:46 GMT
Subject: How are threads implemented in Python?
Message-ID: <OKCc6.46$wI1.8606@news1.rdc1.mb.home.com>

Are threads implemented as OS threads, thereby multi-threading the
interpreter code, or does the Python interpreter itself maintain a
list of Python treads and switch between them?

If the interpreter runs in multiple OS threads, then it must
acquire an release a mutex lock very frequently, so that
the run-time data structures are operated on in atomic
way. Such a lock would a) be locked very nearly all of
the time any Python thread is active, so that the
multiple interpreter threads would in fact be operating
one at a time with frequent  opertunities to switch.
In addition, whenever code in external libraries manipulates
Python objects a mutex must be acquired and released.

I would imagine that with OS locks being expensive,
the frequent locking-unlocking would result in a lot of
overhead.

If on the other hand the Python interpreter manages
Python threads itself, then no locking needs to be done
in the interpreter code, but what about calls to
functions in external libraries which might block,
thereby halting all other Python threads?

Can anyone provide more infomation on how Python
threads actually operate?

- Parzival







From ray_drew at yahoo.co.uk  Wed Jan 24 05:56:42 2001
From: ray_drew at yahoo.co.uk (Ray Drew)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 10:56:42 GMT
Subject: PSU uses emacs?
References: <948e4b$hm0$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <948fvj$oq1$1@panix6.panix.com> <3A67CDC3.7EACB07D@Lugoj.Com> <9490t009on@news2.newsguy.com> <3a685ef2.3403798@reading.news.pipex.net> <949rii0a76@news1.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <3a6eb2fa.2347467@reading.news.pipex.net>

On Fri, 19 Jan 2001 17:55:45 +0100, "Alex Martelli"
<aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote:
[snip]
>> Any other tips for using gvim with Python?
>
>Use blank lines cleverly to delimit logical blocks, so { and } are
>useful movement-commands -- also increases readability.  Would be
>nice to have movement commands based on indent-levels, but, to be
>quite honest with you, I've never bothered programming them...
>(shame's about to engulf me...).  I like :set expandtab always
>on -- no tab/space confusion; I also like :set ff unix, so that my
>scripts can be shared between Win and Unix machines (and why
>waste one byte per line to tell a 'carriage' that is not there
>to 'return' [to where?]...?!-).
[snip]
>
>
>
>Alex
>

On Fri, 19 Jan 2001 17:55:45 +0100, "Alex Martelli"
<aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote:
[snip]
>> Any other tips for using gvim with Python?
>
>Use blank lines cleverly to delimit logical blocks, so { and } are
>useful movement-commands -- also increases readability.  Would be
>nice to have movement commands based on indent-levels, but, to be
>quite honest with you, I've never bothered programming them...
>(shame's about to engulf me...).  I like :set expandtab always
>on -- no tab/space confusion; I also like :set ff unix, so that my
>scripts can be shared between Win and Unix machines (and why
>waste one byte per line to tell a 'carriage' that is not there
>to 'return' [to where?]...?!-).
[snip]
>
>
>
>Alex
>

I'm having problems getting the indentation right with gvim. I've got
the following in my .vmrc file:

au FileType py set ts=4
au FileType py set sw=4
au FileType py set expandtab on 
au FileType py set ff=unix

as far as I can make out from the docs, this should set those options
for all .py files. Tabs appear as 4 chars in gvim but when viewed in
an IDLE edtor window, tabs appear as 8 and throw a syntax error when
imported (files originally created in IDLE with tab space of 4). Do I
need to do anything else to get this to work?

Ray Drew
CIA UK




From steven.citron-pousty at yale.edu  Mon Jan 15 15:27:49 2001
From: steven.citron-pousty at yale.edu (Steven Citron-Pousty)
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 15:27:49 -0500
Subject: Problem with tuple - hopefully clear this time
Message-ID: <3A635D45.3B91D33D@yale.edu>

Sorry all about my previous incomprehensible message. Honestly, I tried
reading
the woodrat and the alligator but I can't get this too work.
I didn't want to send code before because I thought everyone would get
POed at
me sending code. Obviously my psuedocode was not helpful AT ALL.
Here is my code - remember think newbie and don't slam me too hard, its
one of those days. Thanks again for any help
Steve

import os
import sys
import string
import re

#numfields is the number of fields to potentially parse
numfields = 41

"""  THIS LIST IS INCOMPETE - get complete list from the spreadsheet
   ifields[0] is the name of the field
    ifields[1] is the content of that field
   so if we add a new item to the fields we have to add '' to the other
2 lists
   """
ifields = [['ID =', 'T = ', 'AU =', 'DIST =', 'DNUM =', 'ABS =',
'ARCH.FILTER = </B>I', 'ARCH.FILTER = </B>C', 'ARCH.FILTER = </B>N',
'ARCH.FILTER = </B>S', 'ARCH.FILTER = </B>E', 'CLASSIF',
'ICPSR.CLASSIF1', 'NACJD.CLASS', 'NACDA.CLASS' ,'SAMHDA.CLASS',
'IAED.CLASS', 'EXTENT.COLLECT', 'CLASSNO', 'SERIES.NAME', 'SERIES.INFO',

'RESTRICTIONS =', 'DATA.TYPE', 'TIME.PERIOD', 'DATE.OF.COLLECT',
'FUNDING.AGENCY', 'GRANT.NUMBER', 'DATA.SOURCE', 'EXTENT.PROCESS',
'DATA.FORMAT', 'COLLECT.NOTE', 'SAMPLING =', 'UNIVERSE =',
'RELATED.PUBS', 'CITATION =', 'KEYWORDS =', 'DIR =', 'CHAPTER =',
'SECTION =', 'SUBSECTION =','SUBSUB'],

['','','','','','','','','','','','','','','','','','','','','','','','','','','','','','','','','','','','','','','','','','','','','','','','','','','','','','','','','','','']]

#read the files and set up file for writing
dir = os.listdir('D:\\statlab\\ssda\\data') #read in the list of files
in this directory


"""open the file"""
for f in dir:
    try:
        fileproc = open('D:\\statlab\\ssda\\data\\'+f, 'r')
    except IOError:
        print 'Can\'t open file for reading.'
        sys.exit(0)

#create a new iflieds to store the data. More important for looping
    #through the directory


    result = ifields


    #read the file into a list
    text = fileproc.readlines()



    #loop through and find an occurnce of a tag
    #if you find a tag write it to the field
    #if you don't find a tag write it to the previous found field
    for i in text:
        jindex = 0
        found = 0
        for j in result[0]:
            if (i.rfind(j)==0) or (i.rfind(j)==1) or (i.rfind(j)==3):
               if i.rfind("=")+2 == ' ':
                   where = i.rfind("=")+3
               else:
                   where = i.rfind("=")+2
               result[1][jindex] = i[where:-1]
               oldindex = jindex
               found = 1
    # need to write a test for ; at the end
               if result[1][jindex][-1] == ";":
                   result[1][jindex] = i[where:-2]
               break
            elif (i.rfind(j)==6) or (i.rfind(j)==7):
               if i.rfind("=")+6 == ' ':
                   where = i.rfind("=")+7
               else:
                   where = i.rfind("=")+6
               result[1][jindex] = i[where:-1]
               found = 1
               oldindex = jindex
               if result[1][jindex][-1] == ";":
                   result[1][jindex] = i[where:-2]
               break
            jindex += 1
            if i.rfind("BV =") != -1:
               break
        if (found != 1) and (i.rfind("BV =") != -1):
            result[1][oldindex] += i[0:-1]
            found = 0




    crap  = 0
    while crap < numfields :
        if result[1][crap]:
            print "field # ", result[0][crap], " ", result[1][crap]
        crap += 1

___________________________________________________________________________________________________

###Sample data file

ID = 1588;
T = Census Of Population And Housing, 1980 [United States]: Summary Tape

File 1A;
AU = United States Department of Commerce. Bureau of the Census.;
DIST = ICPSR;
DNUM = 07941;
ABS = Summary Tape File 1 consists of four sets of computer-readable
data files containing detailed tabulations of the nation's population
and housing characteristics produced from the 1980 Census. This series
is comprised of Summary Tape File 1A (STF1A), Summary Tape File 1B
(STF1B), Summary Tape File 1C (STF1C), and Summary Tape File 1D (STF1D).

STF1A, STF1B, and STF1D have 52 separate files, one for each state,
Puerto Rico, and the District of Columbia. STF1C consists of one
nation-wide datafile containing information about all
states. All files in the STF1 series are identical, containing 321
substantive data variables organized in the form of 59 ''tables,'' as
well as standard geographic identification variables. All of the data
items contained in all the STF 1 files were tabulated from the
''complete count'' or ''100%'' questions included on the 1980 Census
questionnaire. All four groups of files within the STF1 series have
identical record formats and technical characteristics and differ only
in the types of geographical areas for which the summarized data items
are presented. STF1A provides summaries for state or state equivalent,
county or county equivalent, minor civil division/census county division

(MCD/CCD), place or place segment within MCD/CCD or remainder of
MCD/CCD, census tract or block numbering area (BNA) or untracted segment

within place, place segment or remainder or MCD/CCD, block group (BG) or

BG segment or enumeration district (ED). An additional STF 1A file for
Outlying Areas is also available from ICPSR. This file contains data
specifically for the United States possessions: American Samoa, Guam,
Northern Mariana Islands, Trust Territory of the Pacific Islands, and
the Virgin Islands. The information contained in this file is similar to

but not identical with the data for the 50 states and is
documented in a separate codebook. All STF 1 files are being released on

a state-by-state ''flow'' basis, with the less populous states generally

being prepared and released before the most populous states. Each
''record'' in these files comprises 3,276 characters with two record
segments (physical records) of 1,638 characters each, the number of data

records in each file varies by state.
<P><B>CITATION = </B>U.S. Dept. of Commerce, Bureau of the Census.
CENSUS OF POPULATION AND HOUSING, 1980 [UNITED STATES]: SUMMARY TAPE
FILE 1A [Computer file]. Washington, DC: U.S. Dept. of Commerce, Bureau
of the Census [producer], 1982. Ann Arbor, MI: Inter-university
Consortium for Political and Social Research [distributor], 1983.;
DIR;
CHAPTER = Census Enumerations;
SECTION = Contemporary;
SUBSECTION = United States;
BV;
BV.TAPE;

FILE.NUMBER = 0;
NOVELL.LOC = h:\ssda\7941\da7941ct.dat;
NRECS = 8772;
LRECL = 1638;
DS.COMMENTS = ASCII data file: Connecticut;

;







From ssthapa at harper.uchicago.edu  Sun Jan 21 14:19:18 2001
From: ssthapa at harper.uchicago.edu (ssthapa at harper.uchicago.edu)
Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 19:19:18 GMT
Subject: curses, python20/152, RH70/62, postgresql problems
References: <94731d$9j4$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <mailman.980060125.26550.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrn96m5be.7ho.ssthapa@ntcs-ip45.uchicago.edu>

Sean Reifschneider <jafo-pythonlist at tummy.com> wrote:
>On Thu, Jan 18, 2001 at 03:44:49PM +0000, dubal at my-deja.com wrote:
>>First we tried to install the Beopen Py20 rpm on
>>RedHat 7.0. It looks for some old libs and
>>doesn't install.
>
>Ugh.  Yeah, I found the BeOpen RPM to be lacking.  I've got a copy I've tweeked
>a bit, in particular it includes SSL support in the sockets, and doesn't stick
>Python in /usr/local/bin.  You can download the SRPM from:
    
    I also have modified source rpms for rh7.  If you want to recompile
python 2.0 from source the thing yu should be aware of is that libdb is 
actually the db3 lib on rh7.  You need to change the includes for db.h
to point to db1/db.h and change the -ldb to -ldb1.  I can send you my 
spec file and the patches to create a binary rpm for python 2 if you want
them.
    

-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
	   		              |
Suchandra Thapa                       | "There are only two kinds of math . 
s-thapa-11 at NOSPAMalumni.uchicago.edu  | books. Those you cannot read beyond 
			              | the first sentence, and those you 
			              | can not read beyond the first page."
			              |                     -C.N. Yang
----------------------------------------------------------------------------


From cpr at emsoftware.com  Fri Jan 12 10:35:40 2001
From: cpr at emsoftware.com (Chris Ryland)
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 15:35:40 GMT
Subject: Python language suggestion
References: <93l4ve$no3$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <3A5E1D2B.1DC60661@alcyone.com> <93m3r6$fuj$1@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net> <3A5E9E45.9A59848F@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <93n88a$g6g$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

In article <3A5E9E45.9A59848F at alcyone.com>,
  Erik Max Francis <max at alcyone.com> wrote:
> Andrew Dalke wrote:
> > I believe he means
> >   foo.'bar bletch'
> > as an alternate way of doing
> >   getattr(foo, 'bar bletch')
> > not as foo['bar bletch']
>
> That's not what he said.  He explicitly used the subscription notation
> and even said "dictionary-like objects."

No, Andrew's right--I meant the more general getattr(foo, 'bar bletch').

It's a very simple, unambiguous, gentle way to extend the language to
allow slightly out-of-spec attribute names (such as keywords and
multiple words with blanks).

I'll stop now and let the experts debate. ;-)
--
Chris Ryland * Em Software, Inc. * www.emsoftware.com


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From nas at arctrix.com  Mon Jan 15 09:58:48 2001
From: nas at arctrix.com (Neil Schemenauer)
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 06:58:48 -0800
Subject: python compiled to native in less than a year?
In-Reply-To: <8pF86.6015$J%.595435@news.flash.net>; from slhath@flash.net on Mon, Jan 15, 2001 at 04:18:12PM +0000
References: <kcF86.6006$J%.594457@news.flash.net> <Pine.GSO.4.21.0101151106200.7702-100000@z.glue.umd.edu> <8pF86.6015$J%.595435@news.flash.net>
Message-ID: <20010115065848.A5058@glacier.fnational.com>

On Mon, Jan 15, 2001 at 04:18:12PM +0000, scotth wrote:
> Since Python will be one of the .NET languages, it will get
> compiled like all the other .NET languages.  Whatever the
> problems, ActiveState/MS have/are going to over come it if my
> info is correct.

A compiler is not magic.  There is not a lot of work that can be
done at compile time to speed up Python.  The language is dynamic
to the extreme.  If you are looking for something similar in
style to Python but can also be made to run very quickly you
should look at Dylan.  If you can grok the syntax, Common Lisp
code with the proper declarations can be fast as well.

It used to bother me that Python is so slow.  I don't care much
anymore.  I don't know if its the fact that I'm getting older and
more mature or if its that machines are getting so fast now that
it doesn't really matter.  I guess knowing that I can quite
easily write a C extension module helps too.

  Neil



From zdweeb at hotmail.com  Sat Jan  6 20:03:17 2001
From: zdweeb at hotmail.com (zdweeb)
Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2001 01:03:17 GMT
Subject: Should I learn Python or Java?
References: <HEO56.5504$y9.2881293@typhoon.we.rr.com>
Message-ID: <pfP56.21265$bU.1457284@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>

David,

I too am a VB programmer. I faced the same questions about a month ago and
started out to learn both Java and Python. I even had access to computer
based training via my company. But found Python to much more fun and easier
to learn. I was amazed at how little code could accomplish such big tasks. I
have now been able to integrate it into my job for small tasks. I can write
a 3 line re that can save some of my co-workers time in comparing files ect.
ect. My advice is look at both and see what appeals to you. If you come to
the python newsgroup asking what to learn most responses will be python.

Just my opinion.
-- zDweeb

PS If Python is your choice then you owe it to yourself to check out Zope
http://www.zope.org
"Charlotte Williams" <charlottwilliams at mediaone.net> wrote in message
news:HEO56.5504$y9.2881293 at typhoon.we.rr.com...
> Hello,
>
>     I am a Visual Basic programmer who wants to increase his knowledge of
> programming languages.  Now that the curses, boos, and barrage of rotten
> fruit are out of the way, I would like to ask this group a few questions
> :-) ...
>
> I notice that there is a lot of demand for Java programmers.  The only
> experience I have with an OO language is Smalltalk.   My questions are:
>
> 1.  Which language would be best to learn, Java or Python.  From a VB
> standpoint, which has the least learning curve?
> 2.  Is going from object-based to object-oriented programming that huge a
> jump?   I want to learn an OO language, however I plan on utilizing it in
my
> career.
> 3. Which one is the most "fun" to program in?
> 4.  Is Python multi-platform?  How is it's performance compared to JAVA in
> an internet situation?  It's reliability?
> 5.  Do you for see Python as becoming a major player like Java servlets
and
> MTS?  Can you see Python demand outstripping Java demand in 2 years time?
>
> Many of these questions are in response to a post I saw earlier where
Python
> was being touted as the next evolution of OO programming.  It went
something
> like...
> C --> C++ --> Java --> Python.
>
> I'm really interested in hearing from VB programmers that decided to jump
> into one or both of the languages,  has pretty good knowledge (enough to
get
> a Java or Python job) and the headaches and experiences they had learning
> about them.  Do you need a formal CS education to grasp them?  I tried
> finding information on these two, but the experiences I always found were
C
> or C++ programmers that tried to tackle them.  Some sites actually
belittled
> me as a VB programmer.  Since I have heard such good things about this
> groups hospitality, I thought I would ask here first.  Thanks.
>
>
> David Williams
>
>
>




From claird at starbase.neosoft.com  Fri Jan  5 08:57:15 2001
From: claird at starbase.neosoft.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: 5 Jan 2001 07:57:15 -0600
Subject: SafePython (was: Migrating to perl?)
References: <3Fa56.4580$of7.216286@news1.atl> <mailman.978670867.31055.python-list@python.org> <V%c56.4648$of7.221797@news1.atl>
Message-ID: <CF8EF219512784B3.B44503B368F90331.E2977F7019782278@lp.airnews.net>

In article <V%c56.4648$of7.221797 at news1.atl>,
Joel Ricker <joejava at dragonat.net> wrote:
			.
			.
			.
>I thought of the question about security and the need for taint modes but
>then I realized since there may not be system calls like `del *.*` there
>might not be a need for it.  I'm sure that if Python is in general use as a
>CGI language then those issues have been cleared up.  Are there any thing
>you have to watch for like running in taint mode in perl?
Python *can* do unsafe things.  Python can,
in particular, spawn more-or-less arbitrary
external processes.

Yes, there has been talk of a SafePython in
the past.  To my embarrassment, I've utterly
forgetten what came of it.  There certainly
are a lot of people computing Web pages with
Python, and very few of them think about
"taint" considerations.  How can this be?
Although others will have to supply a deep
technical answer for now, I can quote Thomas
Wouters
<URL: http://deja.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=641788529 >
    ... a hostile environment ... is
    entirely unlike Python's usual
    environment. If you plan on programming
    in such environments, you should take
    care with your programs. Python will
    not do the Right Thing each time, but
    it also does not pretend it does.  The
    habit of throwing exceptions on errors
    instead of returning an undefined value
    and continuing on helps prevent a lot
    of tight spots, though.       
			.
			.
			.
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at NeoSoft.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://starbase.neosoft.com/~claird/home.html


From gerhard.nospam at bigfoot.de  Wed Jan 17 14:22:08 2001
From: gerhard.nospam at bigfoot.de (Gerhard =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 20:22:08 +0100
Subject: Relational Databases and Python
References: <mailman.979589896.32678.python-list@python.org> <3A63D5DB.50B7DD0E@python.net> <d$pEguFgAHA.266@fnews1.vi-internet.de>
Message-ID: <3A65F0E0.DD744A09@bigfoot.de>

Robert Sauer wrote:
> Another opetion would be to go with SAP DB. It's freshly published as Open
> SOurce.
> 
> Have a look at http://www.sap.com/solutions/technology/sapdb/

This is of course true. But
1) it's not fully open-source yet; SAP has a roadmap for the process of
open-sourceing SAPdb; by May everything including the db kernel will be
O. S.
2) it has Python bindings, but these are for now binary-only and for
Python 1.5.2
3) the Python bindings are not DB-API compliant but "something
completely different"

Nevertheless, this db will sure be a good alternative to PostgreSQL,
Interbase and MySQL. SAP forked it from the Adabas database in the early
90s, btw.

Gerhard
-- 
Sorry for the fake email, please use the real one below to reply.
contact: g e r h a r d @ b i g f o o t . d e
web:     http://highqualdev.com


From sparhawk at gmx.at  Fri Jan 26 06:41:46 2001
From: sparhawk at gmx.at (Gerhard W. Gruber)
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 12:41:46 +0100
Subject: Simple HTML template modules?
References: <3A711877.4C5B51AF@mail.com>
Message-ID: <3A71627A.F1D00FDF@gmx.at>

Rayed Al-Rashed wrote:

> I am trying to build CGI programs using Python, and I searched for
> simple HTML templates modules but couldn't find any ... any ideas
> where I can find such module.

I have written a module exactly for this purpose. I hope this is of some
help to you. Usage is rather simple. If you have questions you can
contact me at the address below.

-- 
Bye,
   Gerhard

CocoNet GmbH Erkrath
email: gerhard.gruber at coconet.de
privat: sparhawk at gmx.at

If you think education is expensive, try ignorance!
-------------- next part --------------
#!/usr/local/bin/python
#
# (C) by Gerhard W. Gruber in Vienna 2000
# All rights reserved.
#
# This file is placed under the terms of GPL (GNU Public Licence) and is to be
# used in accordance. Please refer to the GPL for licence information.
#
# You can contact the author at sparhawk at aon.at.
	

# system includes
import os
import string

""" Template class provides functions to work with templates. A template file
    is simply a [text]files which has variables in it which can (and should) be
	substituted to a desired text. A substitution can be a simple string or the
	result from another templatefile. This class was primarily written to
	support working with dynamic HTML files from GCI programs but it can be used
	fo any kind of textsubstituion. I used it in another project for
	printermasks or standardized email documents. Since I didn't anything
	involving HTML in this code, the possibilites are up to you with no
	constraints in regard to your project. :)
	For usage of the functions please refer to the function headers.
"""

class Template:
# ---------------------------------- __init__ ----------------------------------
	""" __init__: constructor for base class Template.
	       fn: Array with the filenames of the template files.
		       The array is a twodimensional array. Each entry must contain a
			   pair of names. The first name is the filename and the second
			   is the alias for that file. This way you can use the same file
			   more than once with different aliases if you need to assign the
			   same template different values in a single document.
	"""
	def __init__(self, fn):
		self.Files = {}
		
		for i in fn:
			self.Files[i[1]] = self.CreateTemplate(i[0])

# ---------------------------------- __repr__ ----------------------------------
	""" __repr__: Selfrepresentation of the class
	"""
	def __repr__(self):
		return self.DumpClass();

# ----------------------------------- __str__ ----------------------------------
	""" __str__: Stringrepresentation of the class
	"""
	def __str__(self):
		return self.DumpClass();

# --------------------------------- DumpClass ----------------------------------
	""" DumpClass: Selfrepresentation of the class
	"""
	def DumpClass(self):
		s = "TemplateClass:\n"
		for i in self.Files.keys():
			s = s + i + ": " + self.Files[i]["FILE"] + "\n"
			for vn in self.Files[i]["VAR"].keys():
				if self.Files[i]["VAR"][vn] == None:
					s = s + "   " + vn + " = None\n"
				else:
					s = s + "   " + vn + " = " + self.Files[i]["VAR"][vn] + "\n"
			
		return s

# ------------------------------- CreateTemplate -------------------------------
	""" CreateTemplate: constructs a template structure for a single filename.
	    The file is parsed for variables and an array is constructed, containing
		the variable names and it's content (fiiled out later by the user).

		The filenames must be passed in an array which contains two entries per
		file. An alias that is used as a shortcut for the file and the filename
		itself. This way you can use a templatefile multiple times in the same
		program in case you need to assign different values for a template in
		the same run (in case a template appears multiple times) and it is also
		more convenient to use a short name instead of the filename itself.

		The filestructure is a dictionary that contains the following entries:
		FILENAME: name of the templatefile
		TEXT: the content of the templatefile
		VAR: Dictionary with the variablenames as key and its current content
		     as value.
		VARPOS: Array that contains all positions of variables in the file with
		        start- and endposition. The position includes the '$' sign and
				the curly braces as well, so you have to remove them to get the
				actual variablename. The VAR key contains the names including
				these characters because it doesn't matter for the lookup and
				it's easier to lookup the name because you don't have to remove
				them.
	"""
	def CreateTemplate(self, name):
		# define a file maintainence structure
		file = { "FILE":name, "VAR":None, "TEXT":"", "VARPOS":[] }

		# variablenames go here
		varnames = {}
		offset = 0
		start = 0
		end = 0

		fl = open(name)
		while 1:
			ln = fl.readline()

			# break on EOF
			if not ln:
				break

			file["TEXT"] = file["TEXT"]+ln
			ln_len = len(ln)
			state = 0

			for i in xrange(ln_len):
				if state == 2 and ln[i] == "}":
					# endposition of the variable
					end = offset + i + 1

					# state reset to variable searchmode
					state = 0
					varnames[file["TEXT"][start:end]] = None
					file["VARPOS"].append({ "START":start,"END":end })

				# A variable is only found when the '{' is right after
				# the '$'.
				if state == 1:
					if start == (offset + (i-1)) and ln[i] == "{":
						# position of the variable (starting at '$')
						state = 2
					else:
						# not a "{" or not immediatly after the "$" sign
						# so we reset to initial state.
						state = 0
					
				if state == 0 and ln[i] == "$":   # could be a variable
					start = offset + i
					state = 1

			# increase the current offset to the next line
		   	offset = offset + ln_len

		fl.close()

		# assign the variablenames to the filestructure
		file["VAR"] = varnames

		# print file["TEXT"][file["VARPOS"][0]["START"]:file["VARPOS"][0]["END"]]
		return file


# ---------------------------------- SetValue ----------------------------------
	""" SetValue: Assign a value to a variable in a given file. The file is
	    idientified by its alias and not by its filename.

		file: Alias for the template file
		var:  Variablename that gets the value
		val:  Value that is to be assigned to the variable
	"""
	def SetValue(self, file, var, val):
		return self.AppendValue(file, var, val, 0)

# -------------------------------- AppendValue ---------------------------------
	""" AppendValue: Appends a value to a variable in a given file. The file is
	    idientified by its alias and not by its filename.

		file: Alias for the template file
		var:  Variablename that gets the value
		val:  Value that is to be assigned to the variable
		mode: If set to 1 the value is appended to the current value of the
		      variable, 0 means it is set as new value.

	    If mode is set to 0 the behaviour is the same as using SetValue().
	"""
	def AppendValue(self, file, var, val, mode=1):
		fl = self.Files[file]
		varname = "${"+var+"}"
		if mode == 0 or fl["VAR"][varname] == None:
			fl["VAR"][varname] = val
		else:
			fl["VAR"][varname] = fl["VAR"][varname] + val

# ---------------------------------- GetValue ----------------------------------
	""" GetValue: Returns the value of a variable in a given file.

		file: Alias for the template file
		var:  Variablename that gets the value
	"""
	def GetValue(self, file, var):
		fl = self.Files[file]
		varname = "${"+var+"}"
		return fl["VAR"][varname]

# ----------------------------------- GetFile ----------------------------------
	""" GetFile: Returns the content of a file whit all variables substituted
	    for their current values.

		file: Alias for the template file

		If a variable contains None as it's value, the variable is copied
		verbatim to the output string.
	"""
	def GetFile(self, file):
		fl = self.Files[file]
		s = ""
		s_pos = 0

		for pos in fl["VARPOS"]:
			start = pos["START"]
			end = pos["END"]
			var = fl["TEXT"][start:end]   # variablename
			val = fl["VAR"][var]          # it's value

			# if the value of the variable is None, the variablename is
			# copied verbatim to the file.
			if val == None:
				val = var

			s = s + fl["TEXT"][s_pos:start] + val
			s_pos = end

		s = s + fl["TEXT"][s_pos:len(fl["TEXT"])]

		return s


if __name__ == '__main__':
	tpl = Template([
		[ "/usr/local/http/public_html/cdadmin/tpl/qo_menu.tpl", "MENU" ],
		[ "/usr/local/http/public_html/cdadmin/tpl/qo_menu.t", "MENUT" ],
		[ "/usr/local/http/public_html/cdadmin/tpl/qo_boxentry.tpl", "ENTRY" ],
		[ "/usr/local/http/public_html/cdadmin/tpl/qo_boxstatus.tpl", "STATUS" ]
	])

	tpl.SetValue("ENTRY", "OWNER_KEY_VAL", "Testvalue1")
	tpl.AppendValue("ENTRY", "OWNER_KEY_VAL", " Testvalue2")
	tpl.SetValue("ENTRY", "OWNER_VAL", "Testvalue3")
	tpl.AppendValue("MENU", "OWNER_BOX", tpl.GetFile("ENTRY"))

	tpl.SetValue("ENTRY", "OWNER_KEY_VAL", "Testvalue4")
	tpl.AppendValue("ENTRY", "OWNER_KEY_VAL", " Testvalue5")
	tpl.SetValue("ENTRY", "OWNER_VAL", "Testvalue6")
	tpl.AppendValue("MENU", "OWNER_BOX", tpl.GetFile("ENTRY"))

	print tpl.GetFile("MENU")

	# print tpl


From tim.one at home.com  Mon Jan 15 03:07:43 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 03:07:43 -0500
Subject: re findall mod for issue of side effects
In-Reply-To: <t651jf3k5dhfdf@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCMEKKIIAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Andrew Henshaw]
> I've changed a line, added a line, and added a 'grammaticGrouping'
> rameter to the definition of RegexObj.findall (the parameter gets
> modified in the user api, also).  This appears to change the
> behavior of findall to be consistent with what I was desiring; that
> is, a way to specify grouping in a regex pattern, without returning
> tuples in the findall result.

Except that's what non-capturing parens are for, in the context of
re.findall() and *everywhere else*.  Adding a unique wart to findall() is
probably a poor idea unless it's astonishingly useful.

> An example:
>
> >>> s='..abcabcxyz..'
>
> # Try a simple pattern
> >>> r=re.compile('abcxyz')
> >>> r.findall(s)
> ['abcxyz']
>
> # Now add some grouping to the pattern
> >>> r=re.compile('(abc)*(xyz)*')
> >>> r.findall(s)
> [('', ''), ('', ''), ('abc', 'xyz'), ('', ''), ('', ''), ('', '')]
> # Wow, that changed the return value dramatically

Sure did.  But your pattern after "grouping" is also radically different in
another way:  it can match an empty string, where your original pattern
could not.  And a pattern that can match nothing everywhere is a very
strange pattern for findall() (what is it you're trying to find then?  a
bunch of nothings?  that's what you're *telling* it to find).  You do
strange things, you get strange results.

A pattern matching what it appears you *intended* to search for here:

>>> r = re.compile('(?:abc)+(?:xyz)*|(?:xyz)+')
>>> r.findall(s)
['abcabcxyz']
>>>

That is, don't hand findall a pattern than matches empty strings, and it
won't return empty matches.

> ...
> Does anybody else see this [grammaticGrouping] to be as useful
> as I do?

Sorry, I don't:  I see it as misusing findall(), and then adding a wart to
cover that up.  But then I'm always generous in my assessments <wink>.

More generally useful would be a new flag on regexp compilation meaning "all
my parens are non-capturing".  Then that part of it could be enjoyed by all
uses of regexps, not just findall.  I don't see a need for that, but it
wouldn't be particularly damaging.

If you're going to ask findall() to match empty strings, though, filter 'em
out yourself.

cruel-but-fair-ly y'rs  - tim




From root at rainerdeyke.com  Fri Jan 12 18:59:44 2001
From: root at rainerdeyke.com (Rainer Deyke)
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 23:59:44 GMT
Subject: "Full" object and class pickling?
References: <979329680.407225@sj-nntpcache-3>
Message-ID: <QTM76.33770$ge4.13694575@news2.rdc2.tx.home.com>

"Stuart Stanley" <stuarts at 171.69.180.197> wrote in message
news:979329680.407225 at sj-nntpcache-3...
>
> I am doing some experimenting with mobile objects.  I.E., python
> objects that physically migrate from process to process via some
> mechanism.  I had thought (c)pickle was my ticket, but pickle does
> not bring the _code_ with.  Does anyone know a mechanism to:
>
>   1) "pickle" the _complete_ object, including its byte-code?

'marshal' can serialize code objects, but can't do everything 'pickle' can.
'copy_reg' allows you to add the ability to serialize new types of objects
to 'pickle'.  However, I don't think 'copy_reg' allows you to override the
existing mechanism for pickling classes.  You may have to write your own
subclasses of 'pickle.Pickler' and 'pickle.Unpickler'.


--
Rainer Deyke (root at rainerdeyke.com)
Shareware computer games           -           http://rainerdeyke.com
"In ihren Reihen zu stehen heisst unter Feinden zu kaempfen" - Abigor




From donn at u.washington.edu  Thu Jan  4 13:02:49 2001
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: 4 Jan 2001 18:02:49 GMT
Subject: Reading from a pipe (open mode w)
References: <931d5j$m0e$1@proxy.fe.internet.bosch.de>
Message-ID: <932ds9$h34$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>

Quoth "Jens Vogelgesang" <jens.vogelgesang at de.bosch.com>:
| I need a wrapper to capsulate an interactive tool which is waiting for
| keyboard input.
| I can generate the input by writing into the pipe.
| To be able to retrieve the tool output, I tried to read from the pipe.
| My Problem is, that I don't know, how to flush the pipe, to force the pipe
| not to be buffered??

Python 2.0 has new pseudotty support for some platforms.  If you're
using UNIX here, it's worth looking into this - at least, import posix
and see if posix.openpty is there.  There's a Python pty module that
provides some higher level support.

The pseudotty is a pipe-like device that acts like a tty - it's duplex,
and it recognizes the terminal ioctls.  The point here, though, is that
the I/O functions of the other program are probably written in C stdio
(or similar), which buffers output when it discovers it's writing to
a device other than a tty.  To defeat the buffering, you have to present
the program with a tty device.

	Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu


From moshez at zadka.site.co.il  Sat Jan 13 09:30:44 2001
From: moshez at zadka.site.co.il (Moshe Zadka)
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 16:30:44 +0200 (IST)
Subject: is Python fully object oriented ?
In-Reply-To: <3A5E5C21.3E036BFE@intelligenesis.net>
References: <3A5E5C21.3E036BFE@intelligenesis.net>, <20010110184830.13286.00000826@ng-fg1.aol.com>
Message-ID: <20010113143044.C3BC6A828@darjeeling.zadka.site.co.il>

On Fri, 12 Jan 2001, Ben Hutchison <benh at intelligenesis.net> wrote:

> 1. Most significantly, Python requires the "self" or "this" reference to be
> explicitly declared. This seems like a bit of a hassle if you do pure OO
> development with python; lots of typing! 

Have you looked at Python's standard library? IMHO, it is written in a very
OO style, and yet, the Python maintainers seem to get over that "lots of
typing". Since most Python programmers read the standard library to find
Python idioms (or they should -- it is Python code written by Python 
experts), most people tend to follow that style.

> 2. Access control is more informal in Python than C++/Java. 

It is just as informal as in C++, only C++ pretends otherwise...

> * Is Pythons leading underscore mechanism more of a convention?

Depends on what part of "Python" you ask. Pythonic security mechanism
(e.g., those built-in to Zope) can surely use things like leading 
underscores for security.

> * Can a class declare a priviledged API availalbe only to subclasses?

Note that Knuth regrets adding "protected" to C++. It would take a 
really bad Guido day to add a feature that the C++ designer regrets <wink>
-- 
Moshe Zadka <sig at zadka.site.co.il>
This is a signature anti-virus. 
Please stop the spread of signature viruses!



From dsh8290 at rit.edu  Wed Jan 31 12:47:08 2001
From: dsh8290 at rit.edu (D-Man)
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 12:47:08 -0500
Subject: Q : About Jython & Applet (i'm begginer -_-)
In-Reply-To: <957pjq$mg9$1@news1.kornet.net>; from reborn@neozone.net on Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 10:26:31AM +0900
References: <957pjq$mg9$1@news1.kornet.net>
Message-ID: <20010131124708.A26971@harmony.cs.rit.edu>

On Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 10:26:31AM +0900, ??y??y wrote:
| hi.. I'm begginer for jython..
| 
| I make a simple applet with jython
| 
| source is  :
| 
| import java
| class HelloApplet(java.applet.Applet):
|     def paint(self,g):
|         g.setColor(java.awt.Color.black)
|         g.fill3DRect(5,5,590,100,0)
|         g.setFont(java.awt.Font("Arial",0,80))
|         g.setColor(java.awt.Color.magenta)
|         g.drawString("Hello World", 90, 80)
| 
| as you know that it's just print "Hello World"
| 
| but, I don't see that result though appletviewer or explorer

How are you using the appletviewer or explorer?  To display an applet,
it must first be in an HTML file.  Example:

<html><body>
<applet classpath="HelloApplet.class" main="HelloApplet">
</body></html>

| 
| I'm using jdk 1.3.0_01, jython 2.0..
| 
| I just installed and setted the pass.
| 
| .java & .class are OK.
| 
| What I have to do something for that?
| 

You should check the docs on the applet tag,  I may have gotten the
attributes wrong.

HTH,
-D




From bww00 at amdahl.com  Tue Jan  9 18:01:56 2001
From: bww00 at amdahl.com (Bryan Webb)
Date: 09 Jan 2001 23:01:56 GMT
Subject: help / examples reading floats / doubles, user definded objs
References: <93aomd$7nd@dispatch.concentric.net> <93crei019hm@news1.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <93g594$ia8@dispatch.concentric.net>

Alex,
    Sorry for the vagueness. I'm red headed, we tend to have lapses.

I want to read the floats/doubles from a binary file that was written from c
or python.
 I have used the array builtin to write the data out to a binary file.
I found the struct builtin module and am toying around with it... with some
success.
I'll work at it some more and repost my question if i need some other help.

Thanks

Bryan Webb


>
>
>




From ^NOSPAM^ifi at ifi.it  Mon Jan 29 12:33:19 2001
From: ^NOSPAM^ifi at ifi.it (accattatevillo)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 18:33:19 +0100
Subject: Python and Industry, IBM I'm afraid
References: <20010111172342.10148.00000934@ng-ca1.aol.com>
	 <HnO86.78962$_G5.11779533@typhoon.nyroc.rr.com>
	 <3A63D9E8.F9B74ACE@mjs400.co.uk>
	 <mailman.979825467.28077.python-list@python.org>
	 <3A729E57.6CE19B86@katamail.com> <mailman.980764315.7504.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3A75A95F.B780ECC8@ifi.it>


Per Gummedal wrote:

> 
> Python 2.0 compiled to V4R3 or higher.
> 
:-(((  I'm still on V4R2M0

Stefano


From kirby at jamesk.freeserve.co.uk  Sun Jan 21 04:57:18 2001
From: kirby at jamesk.freeserve.co.uk (Kirby James)
Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 09:57:18 -0000
Subject: Unicode, COM, Word Problem
References: <94bkik$1hs$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk>
Message-ID: <94ecki$vio$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk>

Fredrik and Matt,

Thanks for both your suggestions. Following your pointers I found examples
of Unicode conversion at
http://www.reportlab.com/i18n/python_unicode_tutorial.html
My own problem was 'solved' by using a statement of the form :
    sAscii = sText.encode('ascii', 'replace')
however I appreciate Matt's comments about how to do this 'properly'

Thanks, Kirby





From robin at alldunn.com  Thu Jan 25 18:02:31 2001
From: robin at alldunn.com (Robin Dunn)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 15:02:31 -0800
Subject: Tkinter vs wxPython: your opinions?
References: <3A6F899F.E164F628@home.com> <hvZb6.2156$_8.33280@news1.rdc1.bc.home.com> <slrn9710o1.73.cerutti@fiad06.norwich.edu> <slrn971716.ums.zeitlin@seth.lpthe.jussieu.fr>
Message-ID: <Ih2c6.99$DPo.4129165@news.randori.com>

> 
> >The objects in wxPython are more full-featured (I guess--for some
> >definition of full featured), but aren't as easily configurable
> >as the Tkinter ones.
> 
>  There is a trade off between having your own, completely customizable
> (because you can tweak them in any way you like) widgets and using the
> standard ones. wxWindows chooses the 2nd i.e. it favours the native look and
> feel...

...by actually using the native widgets.  IIRC, Tk used to self-draw everything like Java's Swing does, but is now (version 8+) a hybrid using some(?) native widgets on MSW.  I think Qt also self-draws on MSW, (please correct me if I'm wrong.)  While this makes things like skins, themes or pluggable look and feel possible, some corporate environments and some people require native LnF, preferably with native widgets so your app doesn't look "old" when the OS is upgraded and the native LnF changes...

wxWindows uses all native widgets on MSW and Mac, and wraps GTK on X.  However, sometime later this year we'll have the best of both worlds as there is a themeable (and skinable I think) self-draw version of wxWindows in the works.


-- 
Robin Dunn
Software Craftsman
robin at AllDunn.com       Java give you jitters?
http://wxPython.org      Relax with wxPython!





From fredrik at effbot.org  Mon Jan  1 17:10:08 2001
From: fredrik at effbot.org (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Mon, 01 Jan 2001 22:10:08 GMT
Subject: Electronic edition of 'The Standard Python Library'
References: <t7746.63812$59.17990421@news3.rdc1.on.home.com>
Message-ID: <4f746.2529$AH6.401534@newsc.telia.net>

"Tom" <NoSpam at NoSpam.com> wrote:
> I tried to use my electronic copy of 'The Standard Python Library' today
> (Jan 1), but was unable to.

the fatbrain edition?  the mightywords edition?  the glassbook
edition?  have you contacted customer support?

> It is possible that I did something wrong - I have no idea - but I would
> caution anyone else who might be considering buying this.  The book is fine,
> but the format is a complete hassle.  You pay your money, but you don't
> really get the book.

well, nothing stops you from printing it...

</F>




From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Thu Jan 25 06:35:12 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 12:35:12 +0100
Subject: Random and whrandom
References: <mailman.980371172.18811.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <94p31e02135@news2.newsguy.com>

"Tim Peters" <tim.one at home.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.980371172.18811.python-list at python.org...
> [posted & mailed]
>
> [Alex Martelli, sorts out the random/whrandom mess -- thanks!]

Thank *YOU* for the instructive-as-usual rap-on-the-knuckles (AND
for the new getstate/setstate stuff in random.py, too).

> The "abstract random number generator interface" stuff has been removed
from
    [snip]
> Python's core randomization facilities are too meager to justify all this
> conceptual hair, and newbies have been stumbling over the overly-complex
> docs ever since ("Define the universe.  Give 3 examples." <wink>).
    [snip]
> [Alex]
> > ONE module, I think, would not be enough -- the distinction
> > between abstract and concrete IS important enough, after all,
> > to be worth a little bit of effort.
>
> It's been counter-productive so far, so got dropped.  "The best"
pure-Python

I'll write out in longhand 100 times: "Do the simplest thing that
could possibly work", "You ain't gonna need it", "Progress is fastest
if we just do what we need to do now: leave the future to the future"
AND "Sufficient unto the day is the trouble thereof" (three by Ron
Jeffries, one by another pretty-worthy Prophet).


> suite of state-of-the-art RNGs is Ivan Frohne's rv.py, and if someone
wants
> to revive an ARNGI crusade they would do well to mimic his excellent
design.
> Alas, while it's still possible to find rv's *docs* on the web, I can't
find
> the actual code anymore (and the Parnassus link is dead).

As partial atonement for the sin and heresy of "Defending
Unnecessary Complexity In The Name Of Unwarranted Generality",
I've taken advantage of Frohne's very-generous copyright
provisions to put an rv.zip containing his rv.py 1.1 (from
November 1998) up for download at http://www.fenx.com/alex/rv.zip
(it's not a particularly fast or well-connected machine, but
the only one I can place something for anonymous dowload
right now -- I hope somebody will pick it up and place it
somewhere better accessible!).


Alex





From johnvert at my-deja.com  Sat Jan  6 11:51:50 2001
From: johnvert at my-deja.com (johnvert at my-deja.com)
Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2001 16:51:50 GMT
Subject: Pythonian string manipulation.
Message-ID: <937if5$r9q$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

Hi,

I was playing around with slices in Python (is that the correct term?)
and I tried, in order to switch the words `hello,' and `world', to do:

s = 'hello, world'
l = s.find(',')
s[0:l] = s[l + 1:]

which in theory would seem to work, but I get the error:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
TypeError: object doesn't support slice assignment

my two questions are: why isn't this allowed, and what is the Pythonian
way of doing this?

Thanks,
 -- John


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From anderson at boi.hp.com  Wed Jan 17 09:10:18 2001
From: anderson at boi.hp.com (Bill Anderson)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 07:10:18 -0700
Subject: gettings mounted file systems [newbie]
References: <A69BC9CA4B39D411BF2200105A45B45B075B8C44@dhexchange.discoveryhealth.co.za> <20010117161413.E3B19A828@darjeeling.zadka.site.co.il> <mailman.979743979.7152.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3A65A7CA.DE46B22@boi.hp.com>

Andreas Jung wrote:
> 
> On Wed, Jan 17, 2001 at 06:14:13PM +0200, Moshe Zadka wrote:
> > On Wed, 17 Jan 2001, Langa Kentane <LangaK at discoveryhealth.co.za> wrote:
> > > Greetings gurus.
> > >
> > > I am trying to find a way how I can get a list of mounted file systems using
> > > python.
> > > How would I go about doing this? I have looked into the documentation and
> > > have not found anything to help.
> 
> I think there  is no portable way. Either check /etc/mtab or under Linux /proc/mounts.
> 
> Andreas


How about parsing the mount command? I believe most mount
implementations under various unices and variants will report what is
mounted where. As to each of them possibly (probably) reporting
different information along with it (and/or in a different format), you
could handle that by testing fo ros type just prior, and calling the
appropriately coded test.

So, completely portable, No, Generally portable, (as in not requiring
say, /etc/mtab or friends), yes. (heh, note the randomly generated daily
.sig below ...)

-- 
Bill Anderson               Linux Specialist
Modular Network Storage     R&D           
Random Quote:
    Portable: survives system reboot.


From fredrik at effbot.org  Tue Jan 16 12:38:10 2001
From: fredrik at effbot.org (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 17:38:10 GMT
Subject: Python and Industry, IBM I'm afraid
References: <3A63D9E8.F9B74ACE@mjs400.co.uk> <mailman.979631000.28993.python-list@python.org> <941c14$dok$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <3A642C9F.58E02F23@mjs400.co.uk>
Message-ID: <6G%86.7010$AH6.1061460@newsc.telia.net>

Pete wrote:
> More importantly though, if I can put to one side the 11 years spent
> coding for Business (the horror...the horror...), and get further into
> debt, and stay fatherly, and get hold of a C compiler, perhaps it will
> be a good challenge to make the first EBCDICy Python Port

Note that Python already runs on OS/390:

    http://www.s390.ibm.com/products/oe/python.html

Cheers /F




From etienne.burlereaux at tts.thomson-csf.com  Thu Jan 25 11:17:01 2001
From: etienne.burlereaux at tts.thomson-csf.com (Etienne Burlereaux)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 17:17:01 +0100
Subject: How to hide Tkinter mouse pointer?
Message-ID: <3A70517D.1E64DA23@tts.thomson-csf.com>

Help !

My application creates a full-screen Tkinter Tk root window.
I must hide the mouse pointer.
I don't know empty cursor among those provided by Tkinter.

I thought of 2 solutions :


1. either define a new Tk empty cursor and set it,


2. or perform X11 actions on this window which are not available thru
Tkinter.
I could create a C extension module to get the following X11 pieces of
information :
    X11 Type                Info
    Display*                  Current display
    Window                   Window id corresponding to previous
Tkinter.Tk root window
But I don't know how to pass X11 reference of my window and current
display!


I don't know if one of these solutions can be done and I don't know how
to !
Any other idea welcome.

Would anyone know how to do ?

Many thanks






From LangaK at discoveryhealth.co.za  Wed Jan 17 02:13:57 2001
From: LangaK at discoveryhealth.co.za (Langa Kentane)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 09:13:57 +0200
Subject: gettings mounted file systems [newbie]
Message-ID: <A69BC9CA4B39D411BF2200105A45B45B075B8C44@dhexchange.discoveryhealth.co.za>

Greetings gurus.

I am trying to find a way how I can get a list of mounted file systems using
python.
How would I go about doing this? I have looked into the documentation and
have not found anything to help.

Please help.

__________________________________________________________
Langa Kentane		| TEL: (011) 290 3218
Security Administrator	| Cell: 082 606 1515
DISCOVERY HEALTH		| http://www.discoveryhealth.co.za
__________________________________________________________________




From thomas.heller at ion-tof.com  Tue Jan 30 16:02:00 2001
From: thomas.heller at ion-tof.com (Thomas Heller)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 22:02:00 +0100
Subject: localtime(clock()) yields 12/31/69 under Wme
References: <3A772BB5.77A3078C@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <957a4e$fp7vt$1@ID-59885.news.dfncis.de>

Try time.localtime(time.time())




From python at commandprompt.com  Tue Jan 16 19:45:45 2001
From: python at commandprompt.com (python at commandprompt.com)
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 16:45:45 -0800 (PST)
Subject: OT: But a little cool
In-Reply-To: <38BB2467.34A55FA1@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0101161645140.8757-100000@crazypenguins.commandprompt.com>

Hello,

There is a new TUX out:

http://www.linuxports.com/TUX/






From Randy.L.Kemp at motorola.com  Wed Jan 24 09:20:47 2001
From: Randy.L.Kemp at motorola.com (Kemp Randy-W18971)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 08:20:47 -0600
Subject: Python vs Ruby
Message-ID: <69BC4C6AE83ED311BC9400805FA7B14AF84D9A@il93exp01.css.mot.com>

I did notice that Ruby has a book out in the US, and there is a web site at www.rubycentral.com, where you can get Ruby and information on it.  Have you ever gone car shopping, James? You normally go to the various dealers, until you drive something you like. If you haven't tried Python, go to either www.python.org or www.activestate.com and try it.  Compare it with Ruby and see for yourself.  From my own understanding, Ruby is very big in Japan (where it was invented), but is not catching on in other countries.  

-----Original Message-----
From: James Lockley [mailto:jpl at global.co.za]
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2001 5:22 AM
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: Python vs Ruby


Just been reading a "Ruby centric" comparison of Ruby vs Python on:
http://helium.ruby-lang.org/en/compar.html

would be interested to hear the Pythonista view....

james





From warrickb at my-deja.com  Wed Jan 31 06:22:58 2001
From: warrickb at my-deja.com (warrickb at my-deja.com)
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 11:22:58 GMT
Subject: Wrapping up a C++ class
References: <954496$ues$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <9546rv01ahd@news2.newsguy.com> <9565q3$nnh$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <Fkxd6.9841$Qb7.1506259@newsb.telia.net>
Message-ID: <958sid$2pj$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

Last night I discovered the PyCObject that wraps void pointers - don't
know quite how I missed that.  I take it this is what most people use
to keep track of a C++ class instance :)


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From claird at starbase.neosoft.com  Mon Jan 15 07:07:31 2001
From: claird at starbase.neosoft.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: 15 Jan 2001 06:07:31 -0600
Subject: More on web development
References: <0hr16t4gt4vp72b8aqcs0tup6ddcs1urtr@4ax.com> <spenrose-348FD8.18390314012001@news.dnai.com>
Message-ID: <BC124EE4ACC076E9.A5B06C3F2F00C949.5B9DCDEA6A749046@lp.airnews.net>

In article <spenrose-348FD8.18390314012001 at news.dnai.com>,
Sam Penrose  <spenrose at well.com> wrote:
			.
			.
			.
>1) Our larger systems maintain global "state" using a database, and 
>place constants in a single file which is imported by everything. If you 
			.
			.
			.
Me, too.

In many conventional settings, that single file
can be an obvious security weakness.  I repeat:
this is an architecture I use.  Don't avoid it;
just be aware that having a lot of undisciplined
logins raises an issue.
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at NeoSoft.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://starbase.neosoft.com/~claird/home.html


From sandj.williams at gte.net  Tue Jan 23 04:48:20 2001
From: sandj.williams at gte.net (Steve Williams)
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 09:48:20 GMT
Subject: How do I know all thrown exceptions of a function?
References: <g3lb49.73s.ln@127.0.0.1> <94d93h$55d$1@troll.powertech.no> <mailman.980059223.25947.python-list@python.org> <Qeya6.7932$AH6.1260668@newsc.telia.net> <3A6B24F0.EA164698@gte.net> <94icr2$6kv$1@animus.fel.iae.nl> <3A6CDBDA.C3120F98@gte.net> <94ipci$afo$1@animus.fel.iae.nl> <3A6CFD8E.BD473DFD@gte.net> <iEab6.8765$Qb7.1233360@newsb.telia.net>
Message-ID: <3A6D54CB.2261D535@gte.net>

Fredrik Lundh wrote:

> Steve Williams wrote
> > > you should use
> > >
> > >      import somelib
> >
> > Well, yes.  But that brings in all the other cruft in somelib, when we just
> > wanted somefunc.
>
> No, it doesn't.  "import" is not the same thing as C's "include"
> statement.  The above statement brings in "somelib", and no-
> thing else.
>
> I think you need to read up on how imports work, before
> proceeding.
>
> Start here:
>
>     http://effbot.org/guides/import-confusion.htm
>
> and then read the relevant portions of the standard docs.
>
> > We could also use
> >
> >     from somelib import *
>
> As long as we're talking imports, that's about as far from
> "import somelib" as anything can get.
>
> > Now we are getting dangerously close to saying something like "don't ever use
> >
> >     from somelib import somefunc
> >
> > because we don't know the exceptions or how the exceptions are defined."
>
> No, the rule is "don't ever use from-import if you don't know what
> you're doing".
>
> Cheers /F

The Module Documentation Tells You To Use from-import. The most common example
    in this category is Tkinter, which is carefully designed to add only the widget
classes and
    related constants to your current namespace. Using import Tkinter only makes
your
    program harder to read; something that is generally a bad idea.

I parse that to mean 'cruft'.




From joejava at dragonat.net  Tue Jan 16 22:19:39 2001
From: joejava at dragonat.net (Joel Ricker)
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 22:19:39 -0500
Subject: Best way to learn Python ?
References: <aa8a6t895h8l3k2q7nmhd25oh6m7haulj9@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <Vg896.2953$CR2.118151@news3.atl>

J5 wrote in message ...
>No schools teach it, so what books do you recommend ?
>
>Also, what are some cool programming projects I could do ?
>
>What do you guys write with python ?
>
>J5

The tutorial from python.org is the best place to start.  Theres also a
batch of documentation available from that site as well like a python
library reference or other resources that is just about everything you need.

I can't say what books you should use yet as I haven't felt the need to buy
one yet, the available documentation being plenty for now.  As a matter of
fact, the first "book" I'll buy is pay to have the python library reference
printed and bound for reading convience.

I've only been using python for about a week so I haven't done much.  I
wrote a couple of number crunching programs to test out python's number
limits, which btw, is generally only limited by the available memory of the
computer.  I'm also working on a web-based strategy game so I've been doing
small parts of the greater whole like player login, map creation, unit
design, etc. I haven't run across anything that Python couldn't do as so far
have been really pleased.  I've gotten more done in a week in Python that
I've been trying to do in six months in Perl.

Also a nice source of programming projects is:
http://acm.fi.uva.es/problemset/  Mostly math related projects but great for
using to learn the basics of python with and test your logic skills.

Have fun!
--
Joel Ricker     joejava at dragoncat.net     Just Another Python Hacker
=======================================================================
I have been Perl-Free for 12 Days, 0 Hours, 29 Minutes, and 56 Seconds.





From tjg at exceptionalminds.com  Sat Jan 20 19:14:06 2001
From: tjg at exceptionalminds.com (Timothy Grant)
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 16:14:06 -0800
Subject: Determining if a superclass is being initialized from a derived class
Message-ID: <20010120161406.A3175@trufflehunter.avalongroup.net>

Hi folk,

I have a superclass that I'm using for a project. The superclass has a
debugging function that is called whenever the command line option --debug
is used.

I have run into a situation where I need to subclass the superclass. I want
access to the debugging information, but not until after the subclass is
fully initialized.

class superclass:
	def __init__(self):
		self.a = 1
		self.b = 2
		if self.debug:
			self.dodebug()
	def dodebug():
		print self.a
		print self.b


class subclass(superclass):
	def __init__(self):
		superclass.__init__(self)

		self.a = 2
		self.b = 4

		if self.debug:
			self.dodebug()

In the above, dodebug() is called twice. I would like to only call it the
second time.

Enlightenment would be greatly appreciated.

-- 
Stand Fast,
    tjg.

Timothy Grant                         tjg at exceptionalminds.com
Red Hat Certified Engineer            www.exceptionalminds.com
Avalon Technology Group, Inc.                   (503) 246-3630
>>>>>>>>>>>>>Linux, because rebooting is *NOT* normal<<<<<<<<<



From thomas at xs4all.net  Fri Jan 26 09:04:20 2001
From: thomas at xs4all.net (Thomas Wouters)
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 15:04:20 +0100
Subject: xor operator?
In-Reply-To: <3A717FAE.2C20AF84@mega-nerd.com>; from nospam@mega-nerd.com on Fri, Jan 26, 2001 at 01:59:24PM +0000
References: <mailman.980513551.5948.python-list@python.org> <3A717FAE.2C20AF84@mega-nerd.com>
Message-ID: <20010126150420.K962@xs4all.nl>

On Fri, Jan 26, 2001 at 01:59:24PM +0000, Erik de Castro Lopo wrote:
> Def P wrote:

> > I notice that there doesn't seem to be a boolean xor operator in Python. Does
> > someone know the reasons behind this?

>     Python 2.0 (#6, Jan 26 2001, 11:27:57) 
>     [GCC 2.95.2 19991024 (release)] on linux2
>     Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>     >>> "%x" % (0x2^0xF)
>     'd'
>     >>> "%x" % (0xd^0xF)
>     '2'

> Seems to work for me :-).

He wanted a *boolean* xor operation. That is, like 'a and b', but return
true if *either* a or b (not both, just one of them) are true. The '^'
operator is the bitwise xor operation.

-- 
Thomas Wouters <thomas at xs4all.net>

Hi! I'm a .signature virus! copy me into your .signature file to help me spread!



From bram at sara.nl  Tue Jan  2 09:15:24 2001
From: bram at sara.nl (Bram Stolk)
Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2001 15:15:24 +0100
Subject: using 'global' across source files.
References: <3A51CC63.A90A0E0B@sara.nl> <slrn953nf2.pcr.scarblac@pino.selwerd.nl>
Message-ID: <3A51E27C.AF8F70B8@sara.nl>

Remco,

Many thanks for your reply.
However, your suggested changes do not fix the problem.

I have now:

# funcs.py

def change_val() :
  global val
  val = val * 2



# prog.py

val = 100

import funcs


funcs.change_val()
print val


However, this gives me:

bram at gazoo> python -i prog.py
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "prog.py", line 7, in ?
    funcs.change_val()
  File "funcs.py", line 5, in change_val
    val = val * 2
NameError: There is no variable named 'val'


-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Bram Stolk, VR Specialist.
 SARA Academic Computing Services Amsterdam, PO Box 94613, 1090 GP  AMSTERDAM
 email: bram at sara.nl   Phone +31-20-5923059  Fax +31-20-6683167

 "I heard if you play the NT-4.0-CD backwards, you get a satanic message."
 "Thats nothing, if you play it forward, it installs NT-4.0"
------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From erno-news at erno.iki.fi  Thu Jan  4 09:42:48 2001
From: erno-news at erno.iki.fi (Erno Kuusela)
Date: 04 Jan 2001 16:42:48 +0200
Subject: Reading from a pipe (open mode w)
References: <931d5j$m0e$1@proxy.fe.internet.bosch.de>
Message-ID: <kur92jml93.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>

In article <931d5j$m0e$1 at proxy.fe.internet.bosch.de>, "Jens
Vogelgesang" <jens.vogelgesang at de.bosch.com> writes:

| I can generate the input by writing into the pipe.
| To be able to retrieve the tool output, I tried to read from the pipe.

you can't read from a file or pipe that is opened in write mode.

there is the popen2 module, but it is can cause deadlocks
when you try to read from one pipe when the program at the
other end is waiting for you to write something. details
in the docs.

it might be better to use a temporary file and a unidirectional
pipe, like os.popen('program < input.tmp', 'r')

| My Problem is, that I don't know, how to flush the pipe

you can use the flush() method of the file object in question.

| to force the pipe not to be buffered??

the os.popen() function takes an optional 3rd argument for buffering
parameters, just like the open() built-in. details in the docs.

  -- erno


From ullrich at math.okstate.edu  Sat Jan 27 16:55:02 2001
From: ullrich at math.okstate.edu (David C. Ullrich)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 21:55:02 GMT
Subject: pyXML support for XSL tranformations??
References: <rtga6.18098$bb.708443@news1.rdc1.tx.home.com> <94d1tj$6sa$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <3a6aef10.3738521@nntp.sprynet.com> <3A7232DB.C576B547@ogbuji.net>
Message-ID: <94vg3k$ed9$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

In article <3A7232DB.C576B547 at ogbuji.net>,
  Uche Ogbuji <uche at ogbuji.net> wrote:
> "David C. Ullrich" wrote:
> >
> > On Sat, 20 Jan 2001 22:02:31 GMT, Chris Ryland <cpr at emsoftware.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > [...]
> > >
> > >The Fourthought people (www.fourthought.com) also have an
open-source
> > >XSLT processor written in Python.
> >
> > I was gonna say that but I wasn't sure they'd got something that
would
> > work with the latest version of Python.
>
> 4Suite >= 0.10.0 works with Python 1.5.2 and 2.0.  Current version is
> 0.10.1
>
> > I have the 4Thought XSL stuff from a little while ago. When I
> > installed it I had to replace the current (1.5.2) Python xml.dom
> > with one that came with 4Thought, which I gather was an
> > older version.
>
> No, actually, PyDOM is now obsolete.  4DOM is now the "official"
> full-blown DOM from the Python/XML SIG and included in PyXML.
>
> Furthermore 4Suite >= 0.10.1 bundles PyXML for easier installation.
>
> > I didn't like this but I did it and it works fine.
>
> As it should always have.
>
> > Q: Does the current 4Thought XSL stuff get along a little
> > more _cleanly_ with Python? (I actually haven't got around
> > to getting Python 2.0 precisely because it took a little
> > tweaking to get the XSL going in 1.5.2...)
>
> I'd have to know what exactly you found unclean before.

I've composed about three replies to this so far - I finally
found my notes on that install process during the course
of writing the second one. Understanding a few things a
little better than I did back then I now see that the
problem was that I'm a friggin idiot. I could include
more details if you want but it would bore all the people
who already know I'm an idiot - let's just leave it at that.
For the record there was really nothing at all unclean
about it, I only got that impression because of various
utterly stupid things I did.

Once I got it working it went right onto my I-don't-see-
how-you-guys-can-give-this-stuff-away list, btw - hope
you don't have the idea I've been wanting my money
back or anything.

> There is no
> reason why you can't download 4Suite-0.10.1.tar.gz, untar it, run
> "python setup.py install", and be completely ready to go.

You only think that because you're not stupid enough to find
ways to screw it up...

> But just in case, there are a 4Suite Installation HOWTOs for UNIX and
> Windows.
>
> See
>
> http://services.4Suite.org/topics/rdf/Top/Documentation/HOWTOs
>
> --
> Uche Ogbuji
> Personal:   uche at ogbuji.net		http://uche.ogbuji.net
> Work:       uche.ogbuji at fourthought.com	http://Fourthought.com
>

--
Oh, dejanews lets you add a sig - that's useful...


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From frohne at gci.net  Thu Jan 25 11:20:28 2001
From: frohne at gci.net (Ivan Frohne)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 07:20:28 -0900
Subject: random.py gives wrong results (+ a solution)
References: <m3u26oy1rw.fsf@kinos.nnets.fi>
Message-ID: <t70ojbs573ou08@corp.supernews.com>

"Janne Sinkkonen" <janne at oops.nnets.fi> wrote in message
news:m3u26oy1rw.fsf at kinos.nnets.fi...
>
> At least in Python 2.0 and earlier, the samples returned by the
> function betavariate() of random.py are not from a beta distribution
> although the function name misleadingly suggests so.
>
> The following would give beta-distributed samples:
>
> def betavariate(alpha, beta):
>      y = gammavariate(alpha,1)
>      if y==0: return 0.0
>      else: return  y/(y+gammavariate(beta,1))
>
> This is from matlab. A comment in the original matlab code refers to
> Devroye, L. (1986) Non-Uniform Random Variate Generation, theorem 4.1A
> (p. 430). Another reference would be Gelman, A. et al. (1995) Bayesian
> data analysis, p. 481, which I have checked and found to agree with
> the code above.


I'm convinced that Janne Sinkkonen is right:  The beta distribution
generator in
module random.py does not return Beta-distributed random numbers.  Janne's
suggested fix should work just fine.

Here's my guess on how and why this bug bit  -- it won't be of interest to
most but
this subject is so obscure sometimes that there needs to be a detailed
analysis.

The probability density function of the gamma distribution with (positive)
parameters
A and B is usually written

    g(x; A, B) = (x**(A-1) * exp(x/B)) / (Gamma(A) * B**A), where x, A, and
B > 0.

Here Gamma(A) is the gamma function -- for A a positive integer, Gamma(A) is
the
factorial of A - 1, Gamma(A) = (A-1)!.  In fact, this is the definition used
by the authors of random.py in defining gammavariate(alpha, beta), the gamma
distribution random number generator.

Now it happens that a gamma-distributed random variable with parameters A =
1 and
B has the (much simpler) exponential distribution with density function

    g(x; 1, B) = exp(-x/B) / B.

Keep that in mind.

The reference "Discrete Event Simulation in ," by Kevin Watkins
(McGraw-Hill, 1993)
was consulted by the random.py authors.  But this reference defines the
gamma probability distribution a little differently, as

    g1(x; A, B) =  (B**A * x**(A-1) * exp(B*x)) / Gamma(A), where x, A, B >
0.

(See p. 85).  On page 87, Watkins states (incorrectly) that if grv(A, B) is
a function which
returns a gamma random variable with parameters A and B (using his
definition on p. 85),
then the function

    brv(A, B) = grv(1, 1/B) / ( grv(1, 1/B) + grv(1, A) )              [ not
true!]

will return a random variable which has the beta distribution with
parameters A and B.

Believing Watkins to be correct, the random.py authors remembered that a
gamma
random variable with parameter A = 1 is just an exponential random variable
and
further simplified their beta generator to

   brv(A, B) = erv(1/B) / (erv(1/B) + erv(A)), where erv(K) is a random
variable

having the exponential distribution with

parameter K.

The corrected equation for a beta random variable, using Watkins' definition
of the
gamma density, is

    brv(A, B) = grv(A, 1) / ( grv(A, 1) + grv(1/B, 1) ),

which translates to

    brv(A, B) = grv(A, 1) / (grv(A, 1) + grv(B, 1)

using the more common gamma density definition (the one used in random.py).
Many standard statistical references give this equation -- two are
"Non-Uniform random Variate Generation," by Luc Devroye, Springer-Verlag,
1986,
p. 432, and  "Monte Carlo Concepts, Algorithms and Applications," by
George S. Fishman, Springer, 1996, p. 200.

--Ivan Frohne




>>>






From lele at seldati.it  Mon Jan 15 12:25:22 2001
From: lele at seldati.it (Lele Gaifax)
Date: 15 Jan 2001 18:25:22 +0100
Subject: Python and ODBC?
References: <mailman.979571776.19878.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m38zoclocd.fsf@paci.nautilus>

>>>>> On Mon, 15 Jan 2001 18:14:13 +0300 (MSK), Oleg Broytmann <phd at phd.pp.ru> said:

    OB> On 15 Jan 2001, Lele Gaifax wrote:
    >> Sure it has: I'm using Interbase (actually, Firebird), and
    >> there are
    OB> [skip]
    >> everywhere with Python :)

    OB>    Where is a python module that work with Firebird (just
    OB> curious)?

http://www.zope.org/Members/RETierney/gvibDA which also provide the
Zope machinery, on the top of a Python module usable standalone. This
is particularly nice since it contains precompiled stuff for Widows.

http://sourceforge.net/projects/kinterbasdb is another one, the first
I used.

btw, Interbase and Firebird share the very same external API: this may
change in the future, but right now they are equally accessible from
any client.

bye, lele.
-- 
nickname: Lele Gaifax	| Quando vivro' di quello che ho pensato ieri
real: Emanuele Gaifas	| comincero' ad aver paura di chi mi copia.
email: lele at seldati.it	|		-- Fortunato Depero, 1929.



From fredrik at effbot.org  Wed Jan 24 17:49:30 2001
From: fredrik at effbot.org (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 22:49:30 GMT
Subject: Timestamping JPEGs w/ PIL?
References: <mailman.980006598.21663.python-list@python.org> <Y_Pa6.2432$9v2.76312@quark.idirect.com>
Message-ID: <_ZIb6.9089$Qb7.1302047@newsb.telia.net>

Kevin Cazabon (aka x at y.com) wrote:
> I created some PIL font libraries that may be useful; finding PIL fonts (or
> good quality BDF fonts to convert) is the hardest part.  You can get
> hundreds of them at:
>
> http://www.cs.usyd.edu.au/~piers/python/pilfonts.html

As a complement to Kevin's excellent (and extensive) collection,
I just zipped up some fonts I found on my disk, and posted them
to:

    http://effbot.org/pil

This collection consists of bitmap fonts from the X window
system (times, helvetica, courier, etc), converted to PIL's
idiosyncratic font format.

Cheers /F

<!-- (the eff-bot guide to) the standard python library:
http://www.pythonware.com/people/fredrik/librarybook.htm
-->




From vesemir at pro1.promail.pl  Sun Jan  7 13:54:35 2001
From: vesemir at pro1.promail.pl (Vesemir)
Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2001 19:54:35 +0100
Subject: shtml in python
Message-ID: <93adro$k9n$1@sunsite.icm.edu.pl>

Hello!

How to write shtml scripts in python?
what's needed to configure apache server?

Yours
QdlatY




From loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de  Fri Jan 26 12:15:58 2001
From: loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de (Martin von Loewis)
Date: 26 Jan 2001 18:15:58 +0100
Subject: Python vs Ruby
References: <94mdkd$222e$1@news.adamastor.ac.za> <p6qwvbjtr97.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de> <94pvd8$3g$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <p6qu26mtesx.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Greg Jorgensen <gregj at pobox.com> writes:

> According to the article below, Ruby uses a mark-and-sweep garbage
> collector. I don't know if that is more "real" than reference counting
> or not. 

I would certainly count mark-and-sweep as more real than reference
counting; since m&s finds garbage that reference counting doesn't
(cycles in particular). My point was that Python 2.0 does not use
reference counting alone - it also uses an additional garbage
collector (a generational one, of some mark-and-sweep form) to find
cycles.

Regards,
Martin


From johngrayson at home.com  Tue Jan  2 15:00:50 2001
From: johngrayson at home.com (John Grayson)
Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2001 20:00:50 GMT
Subject: GIF Image Size
References: <Wxp46.24381$F_3.940941@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <92tc1d$es5$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

In article <Wxp46.24381$F_3.940941 at newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>,
  "Rindolf" <rindolf2 at yahoo.comNOSPAM> wrote:
> Is there any way to find out the dimensions of a GIF image using
python? I
> looked in the language reference and it didn't look like there was.
>
> Rindolf
>
>

Assuming you're using Tkinter, use the height and width methods
of PhotoImage. Alternatively, if you're using PIL use the 'size'
attribute of a PIL Image object...

See scrapbook2.py in http://www.manning.com/Grayson/chapt05.pdf
for an example...


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Mon Jan  8 11:54:13 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 17:54:13 +0100
Subject: help / examples reading floats / doubles, user definded objs
References: <93aomd$7nd@dispatch.concentric.net>
Message-ID: <93crei019hm@news1.newsguy.com>

"Bryan Webb" <bww00 at amdahl.com> wrote in message
news:93aomd$7nd at dispatch.concentric.net...
> Hi,
>     I'm loolking for examples of reading floats, doubles and user defined
> objects .

'reading' from where?  Sorry, but the question is not clear
to me.  I guess (from the fact that you're drawing a distinction
between 'floats and doubles', which Python itself doesn't draw)
that you have a binary data file, into which some other program
(maybe a C one?) has written some doubles, some floats, and
some other data ('user defined objects') yet?  If that is the
case, the builtin struct module is probably what you want, together
with the .read method of file-objects.

If, on the other hand, what you have in the file are lines of
text, with readable (e.g., ASCII) forms of the data (in which
case, no float/double distinction gets drawn), then you'll most
likely want to use from the file-object is the .readlines method
(just possibly, .readline): it will return strings representing
the textlines in the file, which you'll want to split (depending
on what separators are used), then subjecting each "token" string
to the appropriate conversion-function (e.g., the builtin 'float()').

Maybe we can be of more help if you explain better what you are
trying to do...


Alex





From sholden at holdenweb.com  Mon Jan 22 09:09:29 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 09:09:29 -0500
Subject: Modifying .htpasswd from Python?
References: <90312091gustaflalgonetse@194.213.69.148> <3A6BCCEC.EA8CE857@stroeder.com> <90316137Fgustaflalgonetse@194.213.69.148>
Message-ID: <heXa6.47831$LZ5.441426@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com>

"Gustaf Liljegren" <gustafl at algonet.se> wrote in message
news:90316137Fgustaflalgonetse at 194.213.69.148...
> michael at stroeder.com (Michael Str?der) wrote:
>
> >Gustaf Liljegren wrote:
> >>
> >> This can be done easily in Perl, using the crypt() function. Now I
> >> need a Python function doing exactly the same encryption as the
> >> htpasswd command.
> >
> >See module crypt.
>
> I saw it, but couldn't import it, and by the docs it seems to be only
> decrypting.
>
Another poster has already told you why you don't find it: it must be
configured in, which doesn't happen by default.

Your assumption about decrypting only is quite wrong, however: only an
encryption function is provided!  This is exactly what you need for both
password entry and checking, since a password (as you probably know) is
verified by checking that, with the same salt, the password provided
encrypts to the same value as was stored when the password was set.

Note also that you should not expect to find crypt on Windows systems since
it relies on the Unix crypt() library routine.

regards
 Steve




From gerhard.nospam at bigfoot.de  Sat Jan 27 11:25:40 2001
From: gerhard.nospam at bigfoot.de (Gerhard =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 17:25:40 +0100
Subject: compiling Python with PostgrSQL
References: <mailman.980573913.11328.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3A72F684.F94340F5@bigfoot.de>

An updated version of the Python module that was included in the
Postgres distribution is available at

http://www.druid.net/pygresql/

With this version of PyGreSQL, you should be able to use your existing
Python, and compile the module with distutils (need Python 1.6+ or the
distutils update for 1.5.2 from the python.org page):

python setup.py build
python setup.py install

You might have to adjust the paths to Postgres in setup.py first. I'd
give this a try, it's a lot simpler than trying to build it in the
Python source tree, and the current version of PyGreSQL is a lot better
than the old one, IMHO. It now contains a DB-API compliant wrapper, too.

Gerhard

> Sharmad Naik wrote:
> 
> I want to compile python with postgres
>     so initially while compiling postgres i did
> ./configure --with-python
> later i went to /postgres7-.0.2/src/interfaces/python
> copied pymodule.c where Setup file is and added a line as instructed
> in the README file
>     but the moment i issue the first command i get an error given in
> the attachment
> Please if possible have a look at it
>     i donot know what to do.please help me

-- 
Sorry for the fake email, please use the real one below to reply.
contact: g e r h a r d @ b i g f o o t . d e
web:     http://highqualdev.com


From embed at NO_SPAM_PLEASE.geocities.com  Mon Jan 15 14:14:57 2001
From: embed at NO_SPAM_PLEASE.geocities.com (Warren Postma)
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 14:14:57 -0500
Subject: Problem with a tuple - newbie ignorance
References: <3A633531.9010303@yale.edu>
Message-ID: <Y0I86.3574$Oe.17337@tor-nn1.netcom.ca>

How about "Your question is completely incomprehensible".

TIP: Show actual code, not Pseudo-Code. Python snippets are executable, your
thoughts aren't.

Warren Postma





From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Jan  5 12:28:15 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 18:28:15 +0100
Subject: Migrating to perl?
References: <3Fa56.4580$of7.216286@news1.atl><mailman.978670867.31055.python-list@python.org><V%c56.4648$of7.221797@news1.atl> <mailman.978707587.25701.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <935093030hc@news2.newsguy.com>

"Skip Montanaro" <skip at mojam.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.978707587.25701.python-list at python.org...
    [snip]
> I couldn't tell you.  I'm a Unix weenie.  I boot my laptop into Windows
when
> I need to run Excel... ;-)

You may want to try StarOffice -- its spreadsheet component seems
to do the reasonably-simple Excel things I need pretty well, and it
would let you stay in Unix... plus, it's free [$-wise -- becoming
opensource right now, or so I hear].

Having a good cross-platform Python interface to StarOffice things
would be a GREAT thing, by the way...


Alex





From derek at realware.com.au  Sun Jan 14 20:22:01 2001
From: derek at realware.com.au (Realware Systems)
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 11:22:01 +1000
Subject: Mod_python
Message-ID: <MPG.14ccedb45100f74989680@news.syd.connect.com.au>

Ah! is there such a beast. 

I must admit I thought I posted a request for this information before but 
I can't seem to find the message in my news client so perhaps I was 
dreaming.

Anyway is there a mod python (like mod perl) or PerlEx the active state 
version

Cheers

Derek


From tbryan at python.net  Sat Jan  6 08:55:13 2001
From: tbryan at python.net (Thomas A. Bryan)
Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2001 08:55:13 -0500
Subject: Problems with py-indent-region in XEmacs
References: <93655e$rds$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <3A5723C1.7B53721@python.net>

redhouse at my-deja.com wrote:

> py-indent-region just leaves it the way it is. When I hit tab line by
> line from the top, the right thing happens. I understand the the
> indentation has meaning, but I want to be able to paste in a def and
> then have XEMacs fix the code. What's up with this?

>From the docs, (C-c ?)

"""
Warning: The region must be consistently indented before this function
is called!  This function does not compute proper indentation from
scratch (that's impossible in Python), it merely adjusts the existing
indentation to be correct in context.
"""

That is, it's useful, when you have a block of code that you decide to 
wrap in a funciton or a portion of a function body that you decide 
should be in another function/method.  The block is properly indented, 
it just needs to be "shifted".  The entire block has to have good 
indentation before Python can make a good guess.

The tab key is simply pushing everything under the most deeply nested 
block.  If py-indent-region worked the way you wanted it to, it would 
actually be quite dangerous.  Say that I had this instead

def foo():
    a=5
b=6
c=7
if 1:
    if 0:
        print "an if with no else"
else:
    print "else of the first if"

What I want is 

def foo():
    a=5
    b=6
    c=7
    if 1:
        if 0:
            print "an if with no else"
    else:
        print "else of the first if"


What I would get from hitting tab on each line is 

def foo():
    a=5
    b=6
    c=7
    if 1:
        if 0:
            print "an if with no else"
        else:  # oops!  The second if has no else
            print "else of the first if"

This is why some people hate Python.  Usually it's not 
a problem, but if the indentation ever does get garbled, 
then there are no other syntatic indications of what 
the correct indentation is.  py-indent-region merely shifts 
a region with correct indentation based on its context. 
Tab tries to put everything in the deepest block until you 
hit backspace to indicate that the block should be done.

In your case, what you probably want to do is select just 
the region that needs to be indented and use py-shift-region-right.

---Tom


From ljohnson at resgen.com  Thu Jan 25 12:00:36 2001
From: ljohnson at resgen.com (Lyle Johnson)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 11:00:36 -0600
Subject: Tkinter vs wxPython: your opinions?
References: <3A6F899F.E164F628@home.com>
Message-ID: <t70mp0t3cfeqbd@corp.supernews.com>

> It has to be cross platform between Linux and Windows, so it  seems that
> my choices are Tkinter and wxPython.

You might also check out FXPy:

    http://fxpy.sourceforge.net





From Dan.Rolander at marriott.com  Fri Jan 19 08:57:50 2001
From: Dan.Rolander at marriott.com (Rolander, Dan)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 08:57:50 -0500
Subject: Best Python Web Site
Message-ID: <6176E3D8E36FD111B58900805FA7E0F80CCF62DF@mcnc-mdm1-ex01>

The http://www.python.org website seems to have many pages that have not
been updated in a long time. Particularly distressful are the pages that say
things like "This information is obsolete but we don't have time to update
it". I like to scour the web everyday for updated Python info. What are the
best sites for getting new Python information? Any thoughts on this?

Thanks,
Dan




From rjroy at takingcontrol.com  Tue Jan 16 11:48:33 2001
From: rjroy at takingcontrol.com (Robert Roy)
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 16:48:33 GMT
Subject: adding the XML to 2.0 to be a mistake?
References: <mailman.979611383.15529.python-list@python.org> <3d8zocuqrd.fsf@kronos.cnri.reston.va.us>
Message-ID: <3a646756.124812921@news1.on.sympatico.ca>

On 15 Jan 2001 22:20:38 -0500, Andrew Kuchling
<akuchlin at mems-exchange.org> wrote:

>John Schmitt <jschmitt at vmlabs.com> writes:
>> Pardon the ignorance, but where is the mistake?  Is it in adding PyXML to
>> 2.0 or is it the way it was done?  Is there no development strategy that
>> makes this less of a burden?  If a previous release of PyXML had been added
>> to 2.0, would you still consider it a mistake?
>
>Duplicating complex code in two different projects, so that they have
>to be kept in sync manually at the cost of time and effort, is the
>mistake.  Another one is tying a fast-moving project such as PyXML to
>the slower releases of Python; Python 2.0 was released on October 16,
>and there have been two PyXML releases (0.6.2 and 0.6.3) since then.
>
>--amk
>
I agree with what you are saying. Another aspect that concerns me is
that with the addition of the XML tools, xmllib is now deprecated. The
recommended alternative, SAX, does not offer the level of control that
xmllib does.

 For several tasks (eg: translation to another DTD/Schema) it is
desireable not to resolve any character entities including the
standard XML entity defs. In xmllib this is easy, set the entitydefs
dict to {} and override unknown_entityref, unknown_charref and
handle_charref to rewrite the reference to the data stream. Using SAX
you have to do string substitutions on the output data stream to put
things back the way they were. While the code to do this is fairly
simple, it is arguably counter intuitive.

Undeclared entities are a problem in SAX but can be handled cleanly
using the unknown_entityref mecanism in xmllib.

SAX as is now stands, handles marked CDATA sections as part of the
data stream. This may be fine for most uses but may be undesireable
when you are using XML as a container wrapping sections of html etc...


SAX swallows comments. Maybe I need to pass the comments through eg:
if doing a translation.

Granted most of what I have outlined here is best done at a lower
level than SAX, say pyexpat upon which SAX is built. However pyexpat
is for all intents undocumented and SAX is put forward as the
"officiallly blessed" alternative in the deprecation notice. 

pyexpat is presently not a viable option since several of the above
issues with SAX are due to the underlying expat library.

So where does that leave us?

I believe that in light of its unique capabilities, xmllib deserves a
permanent place in the Python library. To improve performance (in
sgmllib too), Fredrik's sgmlop extension should become part of the
standard distribution as well. If at some point (py)expat evolves to
the point where it can do everything that xmllib does (allow access to
ALL entity refs, identification of marked sections, comments ...),
then it could become the underlying library.



Bob


From rcalco at cortechs.com  Mon Jan 29 09:07:33 2001
From: rcalco at cortechs.com (Bob Calco)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 09:07:33 -0500
Subject: PyMacs vs. Pym (was: Pyditor, Text editor fully extendible in python a la' Emacs)
In-Reply-To: <m2y9vuztsg.fsf@mycroft.actrix.gen.nz>
Message-ID: <HBEJKOJGHBOIBHLHPMKGMEEDCIAA.rcalco@cortechs.com>

Paul:

# You just haven't looked hard enough.  Go to http://www.xemacs.org,
# scroll right to the bottom of the page, and look at the news for
# 1999-09-29!

Well I'll be! Now that is news, albeit relatively old news. All along, elisp
has been the answer. I must have searched before I had my coffee!

I think I'm going to give my elisp interpreter a work out doing some serious
regression testing of coffee.el this morning before I start posting messages
doubting the Mighty Emacs and its deriviatives.

As an aside, maybe its because the subject matter is deeply personal to me,
but for the first time, all those ()'s notwithstanding, upon reading
coffee.el, lisp looks a lot like Python (or is that vice versa?). OK, I'll
go get some cofee now... ;)

Can-your-Vim-do-that?-ly Yours,

Bob "the Language/Editor Flame War Provocateur" Calco

# -----Original Message-----
# From: python-list-admin at python.org
# [mailto:python-list-admin at python.org]On Behalf Of Paul Foley
# Sent: Monday, January 29, 2001 2:45 AM
# To: python-list at python.org
# Subject: Re: PyMacs vs. Pym (was: Pyditor, Text editor fully extendible
# in python a la' Emacs)
#
#
# On Sat, 27 Jan 2001 18:18:23 -0500 "Bob Calco"
# <rcalco at cortechs.com> wrote:
#
# > By the way, my ideal text editor will also keep my coffee cup
# full of warm,
# > fresh Expresso while I'm working. Haven't found one yet that
# can do that,
# > not even the super-extensible Emacs...
#
# You just haven't looked hard enough.  Go to http://www.xemacs.org,
# scroll right to the bottom of the page, and look at the news for
# 1999-09-29!
#
# --
# C/C++/Java/Perl/etc are for people who want to make things that work.
# Common Lisp is for people who want to make things that don't break.
#                                                            -- Erik Naggum
# (setq reply-to
#   (concatenate 'string "Paul Foley " "<mycroft" '(#\@) "actrix.gen.nz>"))
# --
# http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
#




From aahz at panix.com  Wed Jan 10 16:21:46 2001
From: aahz at panix.com (Aahz Maruch)
Date: 10 Jan 2001 13:21:46 -0800
Subject: default arguments newbie question
References: <3a5cccca.77467843@localhost>
Message-ID: <93ijpa$asp$1@panix3.panix.com>

In article <3a5cccca.77467843 at localhost>,
Victor Muslin <victor at prodigy.net> wrote:
>
>If I want a function to print "[1]" every time it is called with no
>arguments, do I have to do something like:
>
>def f(l=None):
>  if l == None:
>    print [1]
>  else:
>    print l.append(1)

Yup.  Technically, you really want to write "if l is None", though; if
you don't actually care about it being precisely None, the common idiom
is to write "if l".

Mutable default arguments are similar in some ways to static variables in
C/C++.  They are created at compile time, not execution time.
-- 
                      --- Aahz (Copyright 2001 by aahz at pobox.com)

Androgynous poly kinky vanilla queer het    <*>     http://www.rahul.net/aahz/
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6

Sometimes, you're not just out of left field, you're coming in all the
way from outer space.  --Aahz


From grey at despair.rpglink.com  Wed Jan  3 21:54:02 2001
From: grey at despair.rpglink.com (Steve Lamb)
Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 02:54:02 -0000
Subject: why no "do : until"?
References: <92jj3j$ff7$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <slrn94shbe.150.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <X8s36.2731$Qb7.305339@newsb.telia.net> <slrn94smds.150.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <FOt36.17$vd1.2224@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com> <slrn94t1vj.150.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <3A4E95FD.D6C737A7@engcorp.com> <slrn94tqkh.150.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <tpr46.7782$4c.597534@ruti.visi.com> <slrn954h6p.rgv.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <3A52AD6A.62D043A2@engcorp.com> <slrn955o7d.t0c.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <ltofxokq6u.fsf@asfast.com>
Message-ID: <slrn957pea.6n1.grey@teleute.rpglink.com>

On 03 Jan 2001 21:26:49 -0500, Lloyd Zusman <ljz at asfast.com> wrote:
>But you know damn well that the person who said that was not using the
>word "arbitrary" as you're using it above, and therefore, you're
>deliberately playing with words here, just to be argumentative.

    I am using it in the exact same way.  To an arbitrary value, not set it
arbitrarily.  To set it to a known value.  That is initting a variable.  A
value you choose for your own devices.

-- 
         Steve C. Lamb         | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your
         ICQ: 5107343          | main connection to the switchboard of souls.
-------------------------------+---------------------------------------------


From aa8vb at yahoo.com  Wed Jan 24 13:38:01 2001
From: aa8vb at yahoo.com (Randall Hopper)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 13:38:01 -0500
Subject: Tkinter spreadsheet or textgrid widget?
In-Reply-To: <94l7fo$k6k$1@news.fas.harvard.edu>; from
 wsryu@is05.fas.harvard.edu on Wed, Jan 24, 2001 at 12:26:32AM +0000
References: <94l7fo$k6k$1@news.fas.harvard.edu>
Message-ID: <20010124133801.A278745@vislab.epa.gov>

William Ryu:
 |Tried a Google search but didn't come up with anything. Can someone point
 |me to a Tkinter textgrid (i.e. spreadsheet type text/number entry) widget?

Tkinter's grid widget may be sufficient; have you surveyed it?  If it's not...

Use Pmw with PmwContribD, tkTable, Tix grid widget, or switch from Tkinter
to wxPython or pyQTx.  FOX's FXTable may have materialized as well.
PmwScrolledFrame + grid in Pmw may do what you want -- just depends on your
needs.

Some related articles are linked below.  Also, browse the Vaults of
Parnassus:

   http://www.vex.net/parnassus/

could be some new candidates there.

http://www.deja.com/=dnc/[ST_rn=ps]/getdoc.xp?AN=689841021
http://www.deja.com/=dnc/[ST_rn=ps]/getdoc.xp?AN=689813508
http://www.deja.com/=dnc/[ST_rn=ps]/getdoc.xp?AN=665641268
http://www.deja.com/=dnc/[ST_rn=ps]/getdoc.xp?AN=665834995
http://www.deja.com/=dnc/[ST_rn=ps]/getdoc.xp?AN=452435679
http://www.deja.com/=dnc/[ST_rn=ps]/getdoc.xp?AN=585995233
http://www.deja.com/=dnc/[ST_rn=ps]/getdoc.xp?AN=586167258
http://www.deja.com/=dnc/[ST_rn=ps]/getdoc.xp?AN=587407892
http://www.deja.com/=dnc/[ST_rn=ps]/getdoc.xp?AN=519280699
http://www.deja.com/=dnc/[ST_rn=ps]/getdoc.xp?AN=496501966
http://www.deja.com/=dnc/[ST_rn=ps]/getdoc.xp?AN=450852145

-- 
Randall Hopper
aa8vb at yahoo.com



From max at alcyone.com  Sat Jan 13 19:46:40 2001
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 16:46:40 -0800
Subject: why is a negative shift value illegal?
References: <mailman.979429755.15049.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3A60F6F0.A2A568EF@alcyone.com>

Chris Ryland wrote:

> Why shouldn't negative shifts just mean a shift in the opposite
> direction?
> To avoid confusion? Becuse there's only way way to do things in
> Python?

I'd say shifting with negative shift values is more confusing than just
disallowing nonsensical shifts.  Probably the reason is that Python is
implemented in C, and in C, negative shifts result in undefined
behavior.

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / max at alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, US / 37 20 N 121 53 W / ICQ16063900 / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Could it be / That we need loving to survive
\__/ Neneh Cherry
    Official Buh rules / http://www.alcyone.com/max/projects/cards/buh/
 The official rules to the betting card game, Buh.


From msoulier at storm.ca  Sun Jan  7 14:52:22 2001
From: msoulier at storm.ca (Michael P. Soulier)
Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2001 19:52:22 GMT
Subject: Speed of Python vs. Perl
References: <t5eojolijv1e58@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <WN366.240570$_5.53720921@news4.rdc1.on.home.com>

In article <t5eojolijv1e58 at corp.supernews.com>, AndroidMonkey wrote:
>In the last Maximum Linux magazine, there was an article about using Perl
>for a car MP3 player.  It got me wondering - What's the speed of Python like
>compared to Perl? I've never used Perl before, so I hope someone could
>answer my question here. Thanks  -vm

    It really depends on what you're doing. Each language has its advantages.
Implementation matters a lot too. For example:

[msoulier at lupus test]$ cat bench.pl
#!/usr/bin/perl

%hash = ();
for ($i = 0; $i < 100000; ++$i) {
    $hash{$i} = 1;
}

    This is a typical perl implementation of a loop. The use of the for loop
and its integer operations though, don't help the performance. If we instead
use Python's range function, we'll probably get better performance.

[msoulier at lupus test]$ cat bench.py
#!/usr/bin/python

dict = {}
for i in range(100000):
    dict[i] = 1

    And we do...

[msoulier at lupus test]$ time ./bench.pl

real    0m2.006s
user    0m1.950s
sys     0m0.030s

[msoulier at lupus test]$ time ./bench.py

real    0m0.558s
user    0m0.440s
sys     0m0.050s

    I ran these a few times to ensure that the perl and python interpreters
were in the disk cache.

    They are comparable in any case, but it really depends on what you use
them for. It's not really much of a relevant question anyway. If one performs
worse than the other, it's still fine if it performs fast enough for your
purposes. 
    Besides, if you want "real" performance, use C. ;-)

    Mike

-- 
Michael P. Soulier <msoulier at storm.ca>
"...the word HACK is used as a verb to indicate a massive amount
of nerd-like effort."  -Harley Hahn, A Student's Guide to UNIX
PGP Public Key: http://24.43.42.96/email.phtml


From sholden at holdenweb.com  Wed Jan 10 08:23:07 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 08:23:07 -0500
Subject: mxTools (was Re: why no "do : until"?)
References: <Iw5jLKALa0W6Ewjq@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>  <Pine.LNX.4.30.0101092015010.5204-100000@fep132.fep.ru> <mailman.979066090.17094.python-list@python.org> <93fobh$rqs$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <woZ66.4778$24.96315@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com>

Donn Cave <donn at u.washington.edu> wrote in message
news:93fobh$rqs$1 at nntp6.u.washington.edu...
> I have never used mxDateTime, so I have 0 cents on that, but I have
> used mxTextTools.  I found it to be efficient and powerful, and ought
> to be useful in a significant number of applications and modules
> that have text to parse -- if it were already available with the
> distribution.
>
> Donn Cave, donn at u.washingotn.edu
>
There is, though, the argument that each addition of such a nature
represents a smoking gun. When they are available as a standard part of the
distribution, the problem seems to be that they are smoking because every
newless clubie on the net just shot themselves in the foot!

I exaggerate for dramatic effect, of course. Just the same I would prefer a
small core, with an EASILY AVAILABLE set of extension modules WHICH INSTALL
SIMPLY.

It seems to me that Python should be as small as  practical. I can see an
argument for mxDateTime, say, because the standard 1970 - 2038 date
representation is simply a nonsense from the point of view of a naiive user,
especially one with an interest in history.

The next thing, people will be saying they want "more than one way to do
it"!

regards
 Steve




From serdars at ixir.com  Wed Jan  3 16:58:08 2001
From: serdars at ixir.com (Serdar Soydemir)
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2001 23:58:08 +0200
Subject: Stand-Alone Python Application
References: <BGEGJFOHFLNFHACAJJMLEECPCPAA.rcalco@cortechs.com>
Message-ID: <00de01c075d0$4293be40$60642bd5@ss>

Hello,

Is there a way to compile python scripts and make a standalone application?
As PerlEx does for Perl scripts? Or Python must always be installed before
running any script, as VB programs depends VB Runtime files?



--
Serdar




From mhammond at my-deja.com  Wed Jan 10 12:55:48 2001
From: mhammond at my-deja.com (Mark Hammond)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 17:55:48 GMT
Subject: One bug and yer out with Pythonwin debugging?
References: <G8H66.20$c6.12956@news1.rdc1.mb.home.com>
Message-ID: <93i7mu$5d8$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

In article <G8H66.20$c6.12956 at news1.rdc1.mb.home.com>,
  "Parzival Herzog" <parz at home.com> wrote:

> Is there anyway to continue the Pythonwin IDE session after
> an exception occurs in the debugged app?

This problem is unique to Pythonwin and wxPython.  It is a known
problem, but apparently the wxPython guys don't use Pythonwin, and I
don't use wxPython, making a fix difficult.

Mark.


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http://www.deja.com/


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Tue Jan 30 04:46:00 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 10:46:00 +0100
Subject: mxODBC Help
References: <954i0o$pg4$1@serv1.albacom.net>
Message-ID: <9562gu0bu0@news2.newsguy.com>

"Fabrizio" <facelle at jumpy.it> wrote in message
news:954i0o$pg4$1 at serv1.albacom.net...
> Hi,
>
> Newbie, Python2.0, Windows98.
>
>
> I just would like to try to access to some MS Access or MS Excel data to
> play around with Python.
>
> I am trying to install mxODBC on my system, but this is what I get if I
run
> the included "test.py" script (I have installed Date Time and it seems to
> work fine):
    [snip]
> DriverConnect arguments [DSN=test;UID=test;PWD=test]:
    [snip]
> OperationalError: ('IM002', 0, '[Microsoft][ODBC Driver Manager] Nome
> origine dati non trovato e driver predefinito non specificato.', 4316)
>
> The last line, in Italian, sounds like : "Couldn't find data origin name
and
> predefined driver not specified".

So, *DO* you have a 'test' DSN defined, and accessible with
a userid of 'test' and a password of 'test'?  The ODBC Driver
Manager is saying that you don't (and I think the message is
referring specifically to the DSN, not to userid/password).

You could try making one (Start/Settings/Control Panel/Data
Sources(ODBC)/System DSN/Add..., on an NT4 machine; I think
this basically work similarly on all Win32 boxes).


Alex





From morley at Borokay.ai.sri.com  Mon Jan  8 15:15:01 2001
From: morley at Borokay.ai.sri.com (David Morley)
Date: 08 Jan 2001 12:15:01 -0800
Subject: why no "do : until"?
In-Reply-To: "Tim Peters"'s message of Thu, 4 Jan 2001 21:05:43 -0500
References: <932r3e010bd@news1.newsguy.com>
	<mailman.978660367.22251.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <fvy9wlztq2.fsf@Borokay.AI.SRI.COM>

Tim Peters writes:
>   My own years-old suggestion for a "for" enhancement is the "indexing"
>   proposal, an optional clause on "for":
>
>       for i indexing a:
>       for i indexing x in a:

What would be wrong with:

class Indexing:     
    def __init__(self, thing):
        self.thing = thing
    def __getitem__(self, index):
        return (index, self.thing[index])

for (i,x) in Indexing(a):
    ...


David



From flognat at flognat.myip.org  Fri Jan 19 16:25:00 2001
From: flognat at flognat.myip.org (Andrew Markebo)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 21:25:00 GMT
Subject: PSU uses emacs?
References: <948e4b$hm0$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <m3zognkzf7.fsf@master.athome>

/ Chris Ryland <cpr at emsoftware.com> wrote:
| Why do I have the sinking feeling that, with all the talk about IDEs
| for Python, that the cognoscenti all use Emacs with python-mode and a
| shell window? ;-)

With shell window, do you mean a window outside of emacs? I use a
python-shell from inside emacs.. 

        /Andy


From mwh21 at cam.ac.uk  Wed Jan 24 12:49:44 2001
From: mwh21 at cam.ac.uk (Michael Hudson)
Date: 24 Jan 2001 17:49:44 +0000
Subject: python-2.1 function attributes
References: <ul3snm8dfae.fsf@smaug.fsl.noaa.gov>
Message-ID: <m3n1cgzvpj.fsf@atrus.jesus.cam.ac.uk>

Mike Romberg <romberg at smaug.fsl.noaa.gov> writes:

>   I've been messing around with python-2.1a1 and have discovered the
> new feature 'function attributes'.  The project I'm currently working
> on can really use this feature.  The feature itself would be much more
> useful if one could predefine a set of attributes with the function
> definition.  This is one of the things mentioned in the 'future
> directions' sections of pep 232 
> 
> http://python.sourceforge.net/peps/pep-0232.html
> 
>   So... I guess I'd like to put in one 'yes' vote for this extension :).

I suspect if you can come up with a decent syntax, it will go in.  I
can't though.  Any ideas?

Cheers,
M.

-- 
  The ability to quote is a serviceable substitute for wit.
                                                -- W. Somerset Maugham


From kpmurphy at my-deja.com  Thu Jan 25 11:12:16 2001
From: kpmurphy at my-deja.com (Keith Murphy)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 16:12:16 GMT
Subject: sockets: client dies...
References: <94kmt5$cuj$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <94ksfl$r2a$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu> <94ngqn$rph$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <3A6F8AB1.BDF23F5D@home.com>
Message-ID: <94pj8n$jfl$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

ok here's what i understand.

 makes the conn.recv(1024) statement wait for a result, where as
conn.setblocking(0) just throws an exception if there isn't something
there immediately.

in my server, it's continuously listening for new clients on one thread,
and listening to current clients on another thread.  in the current
client thread:

            for u in userlist:
                try:
                    data = ''
                    data = string.strip(u.conn.recv(1024))

                    #
                    # all commands start with a /
                    if data[0] == '/':
                        server_msg, client_msg = u.do(data)

                        self.update_kill()

                        #
                        # tell the client stuff
                        if client_msg:
                            u.conn.send(client_msg)

                        self.disp(server_msg)
                except:
                    pass

...it checks to see if each client has something to say.  if not, it
throws the exception, and moves on.  if so, it executes their commands,
and displays results, etc.

is this a lame way to do this?  is there a better way?  i need to be
able to detect when a client has died.  currently this isn't possible,
or is it?

thanks gang,
keith


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From steve.menard at polyester.com  Mon Jan 15 09:16:24 2001
From: steve.menard at polyester.com (Steve Menard)
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 09:16:24 -0500
Subject: ZODB and Python 2.0
References: <mailman.979337025.17444.python-list@python.org> <slrn95vje6.gm.amk@207-172-113-55.s55.tnt5.ann.va.dialup.rcn.com>
Message-ID: <93v0qc$pat$1@newsmaster.axxent.ca>

"A.M. Kuchling" <amk at mira.erols.com> wrote in message
news:slrn95vje6.gm.amk at 207-172-113-55.s55.tnt5.ann.va.dialup.rcn.com...
> On Fri, 12 Jan 2001 17:02:36 -0500, Tim Peters <tim.one at home.com> wrote:
> >[Steve Menard]
> >> ...
> >> So finally, my question is this : Why isn;t ZODB available as a
separate
> >> package using the distutils?
> >
> >http://sourceforge.net/projects/zodb/
>
> That's not really going to help if he's on Windows without a compiler.
> Someone needs to download the code and run "python setup.py
> bdist_wininst"; I have no idea if it'll work, but it's worth a try.
>
    Well, I dont know who posted the URL, but thats good enough for me.
Althoug I am on windows, I am not without a compiler so I should be able to
compile ZODB. My original problem was the ZOPE source I got from ZOPE.org
does NOT include a setup.py file for ZODB.

On a second note, maybe the sourceforge project for ZODB should be
referenced on ZOPE's page?

> Paul Prescod also recently reported compiling ZODB for Windows and
> offered to mmake binaries available.  Paul, if you want to provide a
> pointer to them, I'll add a copy to the SourceForge site.
>
    That would be even better yes.

> --amk




From fredrik at effbot.org  Thu Jan 18 16:37:59 2001
From: fredrik at effbot.org (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 21:37:59 GMT
Subject: Canvas geometry
References: <3A67353A.4B9328EC@inenco.no>
Message-ID: <XmJ96.7164$Qb7.1061283@newsb.telia.net>

Hans Kristian Ruud wrote:
> I try to retrieve the dimensions of a canvas in the following
> manner:
>
>       h = eval( self.canvas.cget('height')  )
>       w = eval( self.canvas).cget('width')  )

Typos aside, this gives you the configured size.  Whether or
not this is the same as the actual size depends on the widget
and the geometry manager (it usually isn't the same).

(btw, note that "eval" isn't exactly the most efficient way to
convert a string containing an integer to an integer value...
try using "int" instead)

To get the actual size, use winfo_height/width:

    h = self.canvas.winfo_height()
    w = self.canvas.winfo_width()

For a couple of caveats, see
http://www.pythonware.com/library/tkinter/introduction/basic-widget-methods.htm
=> Window Related Information => winfo_width, winfo_height

To track changes to the canvas size, bind the <Configure>
event (see Steven's post for an example).

Hope this helps!

Cheers /F

<!-- (the eff-bot guide to) the standard python library:
http://www.pythonware.com/people/fredrik/librarybook.htm
-->





From sune at interspace.dk  Sun Jan 14 06:06:05 2001
From: sune at interspace.dk (Sune Kirkeby)
Date: 14 Jan 2001 12:06:05 +0100
Subject: Using re - side effects or misunderstanding
References: <t61f9nsrgdcj0f@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <87y9wel7fm.fsf@sune.interspace.dk>

[ "Andrew Henshaw" <andrew_dot_henshaw_at_earthling_dot_net> ]
> But I thought that ?: is for matching but not returning.  And so it is,
> under certain circumstances, e.g.

It always is, and it always does.

> if my pattern is
>     '(ab)(c)xyz'
> I get
>     [('ab', 'c')]   (Yikes! a tuple. I'm going to have to change my code a
> bit to handle this)
> but
>     '(ab)(?:c)xyz'
> yields,
>     ['ab']
> and
>     '(?:ab)(?:c)xyz'
> gives
>     ['abcxyz']

All of the above are what one would expect, since re.findall returns
a list of matches, if there are no groups in the re.  But if there are
groups it will _only_ return a list of tuples with the matched groups.

Note that (?:...) is non-grouping, so in '(?:ab)(?:c)xyz' there are
no groups, but in '(ab)(?:c)xyz' there is one group, which will then
be returned.

> so how do I get the result
>     ['abxyz']
> ??

Something along the lines of,

>>> r = re.compile('(ab)c(xyz)')
>>> matches = r.findall('..abcxyz..')
>>> matches
[('ab', 'xyz')]

almost there, just have to join the tuples,

>>> map(lambda l: string.join(l, ''), matches)
['abxyz']

Voila!

> In other words, adding groups for the purpose of adding repetitions seems to
> have a greater side-effect than I would desire.  Is there something that I'm
> missing in my use of re's?

Yes, you weren't using groups (all the time, anyway)  :-).

first-posting-ly yrs'

-- 
Sune Kirkeby                    | "Imagine, if you will, that there were no
http://mel.interspace.dk/~sune/ | such thing as a hypothetical situation..."


From scanner at jurai.net  Thu Jan  4 01:57:34 2001
From: scanner at jurai.net (Chris Watson)
Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 00:57:34 -0600
Subject: Calling an application from inside a python script Take 1
Message-ID: <a9V46.371$7k5.2218@newsfeed.slurp.net>

Hi everyone,

I *just* started getting into learning python.
I am currently working on a menu'ing system to keep non admin people from
goofing things up on some FreeBSD servers in a datacenter. I have very
little BG in coding. My menu system has a section for allowing the admins
to edit the various config files for different servers. For instance the
first python script which I am doing prompts the user for a hostname of
the server that apache is running on. It will save that hostname in the
variable host.

host = raw_input("Enter a hostname: ");

Then I want to pass the $host variable to ssh. So it does something like
this:

ssh -l root $host vi /usr/local/etc/apache.conf

Which will allow the tech to edit the web servers config file. But he
wont need to know ssh, or or anything else. My long winded question is
how do I get python to call an external application?

If someone could point me in the right direction I would really
appreciate it. Thanks for your time!

Chris


From sholden at holdenweb.com  Thu Jan 11 08:04:05 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 08:04:05 -0500
Subject: boolean xor
References: <mailman.979187835.11489.python-list@python.org> <93jm0a$lbj$1@slb7.atl.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <Nci76.10519$X3.66705@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>

"Andrew Dalke" <dalke at acm.org> wrote in message
news:93jm0a$lbj$1 at slb7.atl.mindspring.net...
> Delaney, Timothy:
> >This can be done even better ...
> >
> >def xor (a, b):
> > return (not a)!= (not b)
> >
> >getting rid of one negation ;)
>
> Ooh, I like it.  It's even better than my use of
> operator.truth because it doesn't have the function
> call lookup and overhead.
>
Yup, definitely the neatest so far.

regards
 Steve




From tismer at tismer.com  Thu Jan 11 09:50:07 2001
From: tismer at tismer.com (Christian Tismer)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 16:50:07 +0200
Subject: ANN: Stackless Python 2.0
References: <mailman.978910570.6793.python-list@python.org> <pJBdOlKVitheUmPGE=0grX+KKTSP@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3A5DC81F.EC9AF600@tismer.com>


Paul Moore wrote:
> 
> On Sun, 7 Jan 2001 23:37:55 +0100 , Christian Tismer
> <tismer at tismer.com> wrote:
> 
> >I'm happy to announce that
> >
> >               Stackless Python 2.0
> >
> >is finally ready and available for download.
> >
> >Stackless Python for Python 1.5.2+ also got some minor
> >enhancements. Both versions are available as Win32
> >installer files here:
> >
> >http://www.stackless.com/spc20-win32.exe
> >http://www.stackless.com/spc15-win32.exe
> 
> Can you please describe in detail what the installer does? I have
> ActivePython 2.0 installed, and I would like to try Stackless, but I
> am not ready to switch over completely. I am concerned (as I always am
> with installer packages!) that the installer may write registry
> entries and/or install files in the Windows directory which could
> clash with standard Python.

The installer does:
- look into your registry for the installed Python version
- create an soc directory:  <python>/spc
- create a backup directory: <python>/spc/BACKUP
- places your system's python<whatever>.dll into the backup
- installs my python<whatever>.dll into your system directory
- puts several demo files into the spc directory
- puts continuation.pyd into <python>/DLLs
- puts an uninstaller into your <python>/spc directory.

After installing, no registry entries are changed.
The only real change is that your original Python dll has
been moved into the backup, and mine has been inserted
instead.
The uninstaller does a complete reversal of that, given that
you click "yes" on the "rollback" option. Unfortunately,
I cannot influence Wise here. It should select this
option by default, but it cannot be configured.

> Alternatively, is there a binary distribution which is not in
> installer format?

No. But after installation, everything is still there. And you
still can run your previous installation, when your starting
directory is that BACKUP directory.
Of course, you can remove the replaced python<whatever>.dll
from your system directory, put it elsewhere where you want
to test it, and move the original file back if you want.

I believe you can trust this installer. I'm using it myself,
and I'm installing and uninstalling many times during development.

Question to the Stackless list:

Should I add an option button to the installer
to *not* replace the system dll, but put the new dll into
the <python>/spc directory, for testing purposes?

ciao - chris

-- 
Christian Tismer             :^)   <mailto:tismer at tismer.com>
Mission Impossible 5oftware  :     Have a break! Take a ride on Python's
Kaunstr. 26                  :    *Starship* http://starship.python.net
14163 Berlin                 :     PGP key -> http://wwwkeys.pgp.net
PGP Fingerprint       E182 71C7 1A9D 66E9 9D15  D3CC D4D7 93E2 1FAE F6DF
     where do you want to jump today?   http://www.stackless.com



From fredrik at effbot.org  Fri Jan  5 11:56:33 2001
From: fredrik at effbot.org (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 16:56:33 GMT
Subject: Migrating to perl?
References: <V%c56.4648$of7.221797@news1.atl>, <3Fa56.4580$of7.216286@news1.atl> <mailman.978670867.31055.python-list@python.org> <mailman.978711967.28730.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <51n56.3862$Qb7.506463@newsb.telia.net>

Moshe Zadka wrote:
> Luckily PIL (linked somewhere from www.pythonware.com)
> understands file formats' inner workings very well.

http://www.pythonware.com/products/pil/index.htm

cheers /F




From jvanar1 at my-deja.com  Tue Jan 30 15:36:58 2001
From: jvanar1 at my-deja.com (jvanar1 at my-deja.com)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 20:36:58 GMT
Subject: Cannot find libModules.a lib*.a, etc...
Message-ID: <9578l9$nj3$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

Hello All,

I have a serious dilemma.  I am trying to embed python into C and I'm
having the most difficult time locating libModules.a libParser.a and
libObjects.a.  From what I read they were supposd to have been created
in their respective folders (i.e. Python/Modules/libModules.a) but are
not.  I tried re-building and installing the newest version (2.0)
several times.  I tried launching the make scripts in each dir manually
as well, but no luck.  Is there something I am missing?  Is the default
makescript/Setup not configured to create these? If so, what should I
edit??  Any and all help is greatly appreciated...

Clueless,
-Jim


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From martin.franklin at westerngeco.com  Wed Jan 24 08:57:46 2001
From: martin.franklin at westerngeco.com (Martin Franklin)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 13:57:46 +0000
Subject: Editor font in IDLE (Linux)
References: <mailman.980252066.30237.python-list@python.org> <94k31p$geg$1@reader1.imaginet.fr> <mailman.980260346.3483.python-list@python.org> <94mkal$2me$1@reader1.imaginet.fr>
Message-ID: <3A6EDF5A.49B096BC@westerngeco.com>

Gilles,

Could you check if you have permission to overwrite the EditorWindow.pyc
file
I suspect that your changes are picked up not being used. I just changed
it 
to Courier 24 on my RedHat 6.2 box and it looks massive!  The other
place you
could try is in the PyShell.py file under line 711...
    root = Tk()
    font='Courier 24'
    root.option_add('*font', font)


This will change it for all widgets.... including the menu and the edit
window
and the python shell etc

Hope this helps.
Martin



Gilles Lenfant wrote:
> 
> Martin,
> 
> This works only with Windows IDLE.
> I removed :
>          if sys.platform[:3] == 'win':
> and tried different valid font names in:
> text['font'] = ...
> 
> This seems to be completely ignored in Linux because IDLE always shows the
> same ugly little font.
> 
> "Martin Franklin" <martin.franklin at westerngeco.com> a ?crit dans le message
> news: mailman.980260346.3483.python-list at python.org...
> > Take a look in EditorWindow.py it has this on line 142....
> >
> >             text['font'] = ("lucida console", 8)
> > #            text['font'] = ("courier new", 10)
> >
> >
> > change it to just ...
> >
> > text['font'] = ("Courier ", 14)
> >
> > or whatever font you like.....
> >
> > Martin
> >
> 
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list



From junaftnoon at nospamplzyahoo.com  Wed Jan  3 20:58:29 2001
From: junaftnoon at nospamplzyahoo.com (June Kim)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 10:58:29 +0900
Subject: Pmw.Blt with Tkinter
Message-ID: <930lem$nu0$1@news.nuri.net>

I've downloaded Pmw, and Blt(blt2.4u-for-8.3.exe) for windows. Pmw was
installed on my system quite successfully, as the demo seems working right,
but BLT parts are not working at all. It says that BLT is not installed --
it is installed under the \python20\tcl directory.

How can I notify my system that I've installed BLT?
(I guess I should add some lines indicating the path to some files)





From amk at mira.erols.com  Fri Jan 26 20:00:06 2001
From: amk at mira.erols.com (A.M. Kuchling)
Date: 27 Jan 2001 01:00:06 GMT
Subject: Python vs Ruby
References: <94mdkd$222e$1@news.adamastor.ac.za> <p6qwvbjtr97.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de> <94pvd8$3g$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <p6qu26mtesx.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de> <mailman.980533713.29159.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrn97486l.gm.amk@mira.erols.com>

On Fri, 26 Jan 2001 13:24:36 -0500, D-Man <dsh8290 at rit.edu> wrote:
>Of course.  Mark-and-sweep is an algorithm for Garbage Collection and
>Reference Counting isn't garbage collections.  Both gc and ref
>counting are forms of /Automatic Memory Management/.

Hrm... In the Jones/Lins book on garbage collection, section 2.1 and
chapter 3 are on reference counting, and they refer to it as "one of
the classial garbage collection algorithms", which settles the matter
for me; clearly reference counting *is* a form of GC, just one with a
sizable limitation that may or may not be a problem for a particular
application.  

--amk


From sylvieb at icestormfx.com  Fri Jan 26 14:59:37 2001
From: sylvieb at icestormfx.com (Sylvie Bruneau)
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 14:59:37 -0500
Subject: Python2.0 and Pmw 0.8.4 counter problem
Message-ID: <3A71D728.EE4B9F03@icestormfx.com>

Hello Everyone !

    We used Python1.5 with Pmw 0.8.3 to develop an in-house application.  For some
reasons, we changed to Python2.0 and we decided to use the new Pmw version (
0.8.4 ).  In our application, we have a Pmw.Counter of integers and it doesn't work
anymore.  The behaviour is strange :  if we type a new integer in the entry field,
everything is fine.  But using the arrows ( left or right, up or down ) just clean
the entry field, without updating its content.  I try the demos in the Pmw
distributions and they don't work either.  We installed Python1.6 with Pmw 0.8.3, and
it still doesn't work !!!  I tried all the other types of counters and they all work
fine, but the integer.

    Anybody has a suggestion ?

Thank you !

Sly

--
/=-/=-/=-/=-/=-/=-/=-/=-/=-/=-/=-/=-/=-/=-/=-/=-/=-/=-/=-/=-/
Sylvie Bruneau ( sylvieb at icestormfx.com ) Tel: (514) 527-3963
Software Developer, IceStorm Digital.     Fax: (514) 527-5165
2595 Place Chasse, Montreal, Quebec, H1Y 2C3.

Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (P)anic


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From grante at visi.com  Tue Jan  2 14:36:14 2001
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2001 19:36:14 GMT
Subject: Q: Is there any good documentation on MAPI using Python
References: <wpm06.791$AH6.82177@newsc.telia.net> <zIK26.3737$4c.280470@ruti.visi.com> <92ftub$lev$1@panix3.panix.com>
Message-ID: <O4q46.7777$4c.593547@ruti.visi.com>

In article <92ftub$lev$1 at panix3.panix.com>, Aahz Maruch wrote:
>In article <zIK26.3737$4c.280470 at ruti.visi.com>,
>Grant Edwards <grante at visi.com> wrote:
>>
>>I'm using a Python program to fetch e-mail messages (and
>>associated attachements) via MAPI.  You're welcome to it:
>>
>>  ftp://ftp.visi.com/users/grante/python/mfetch.py
>
><snicker>  So how's the BOFH these days?

Well, a few months back he decided that he didn't like having
non-Win9X machine on his network at all.  This is a bit of a
problem since our products are supported under WinNT, Win2K,
Linux and a couple other Unices.  So he set up a second
"unsupported" network and moved all of the development, test,
and support machines onto it.

All that's left on his "production" network are Win9X machines
that are running mostly MS-Office and are remotely administered
by him: you can't mess with network settings, for example, but
you can (fortunately for me) install things like Python.

So the Windows machine running the mfetch.py program and the
Linux machine to which it was sending the mail are now on
different networks.  He also futzed with the MS-Exchange SMTP
server so that it only accepts messages from internal machines
if they have certain From: headers.  

This stopped my mfetch.py program from doing anything useful
for a few days.  Then I realized that the firewall between the
networks allows certain types of traffic (notably HTTP and ssh)
to cross.  (For some reason he only allows ssh connections that
originate from ports below 1024 -- that had me confused for a
while.)

After installing an ssh client on my Windows machine to forward
a socket to the SMTP server on my Linux machine, I am again
happily reading my mail under Linux.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  Intra-mural sports
                                  at               results are filtering
                               visi.com            through th' plumbing...


From tim.one at home.com  Sat Jan 27 21:05:29 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 21:05:29 -0500
Subject: threading issues with statcache
In-Reply-To: <eBJc6.551$p_2.268979@paloalto-snr1.gtei.net>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCIEMBILAA.tim.one@home.com>

[posted & mailed]

[Randall Kern]
> Looking at the code for the statcache module from py 1.5.2, it
> looks like it isn't thread safe.

It is if you serialize all calls to it yourself <wink>.

> While writing my own substitute, I realized I am unclear
> on when names are looked up.

Every time they're (dynamically) referenced.  No exceptions (e.g., global,
local, builtin are all the same in this respect; call "len(x)" inside a
loop, and "len" is looked up anew on each iteration -- and so is "x", for
that matter).

> In particular, given two function like these (copied from statcache):
>
> cache = {}
> def stat(path):
>     if cache.has_key(path):
>         return cache[path]
>
>     cache[path] = ret = os.stat(path)
>     return ret
>
> def reset():
>     global cache
>     cache = {}
>
>
> If the symbol 'cache' is looked up _once_ per function,

It is not.

> then these two functions may be used across multiple threads.  If
> it is looked up for every reference, than it would be possible
> to call reset() between a TRUE has_key() and the return in stat(),
> which would result in a KeyError.

Yup!  Good eye.  Looks like statcache is full of insecurities like that.
Some of them are easy to fix; e.g.,

def stat(path):
    ret = cache.get(path, None)
    if ret is None:
        cache[path] = ret = os.stat(path)
    return ret

I'll try to make time to fix this stuff for 2.1a2 (btw, 1.5.2 is ancient --
move up to 2.0!  it's good practice for upgrading to 2.1, in which statcache
will be thread-safe <wink>).

> When are global variable's bound?

Sorry, don't think I understand this question.  Any vrbl, whether global or
local, is bound when and only when a binding stmt is executed in which the
vrbl appears as a binding target.  If it would make your life easier,
consider changing the body of reset to:

def reset():
    cache.clear()

Then nothing in statcache will ever rebind the name "cache" -- but you'd
still be vulnerable to all the same race conditions (i.e., the rebinding is
not the cause of the problems, it's that *content* may disappear between the
time one stmt thinks it exists and a later stmt *acts* on that belief).

unraveling-the-thread-ly y'rs  - tim




From thomas at xs4all.net  Thu Jan  4 10:51:16 2001
From: thomas at xs4all.net (Thomas Wouters)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 16:51:16 +0100
Subject: 2001 Enchancement Wishlist
In-Reply-To: <008301c07501$c036ae40$43931497@martelli>; from aleaxit@yahoo.com on Tue, Jan 02, 2001 at 10:16:42PM +0100
References: <3A4CEACB.220998A0@javanet.com> <Ro736.2511$Qb7.273102@newsb.telia.net> <92j83r13gh@news1.newsguy.com> <20001231175940.A5435@xs4all.nl> <008301c07501$c036ae40$43931497@martelli>
Message-ID: <20010104165116.F2467@xs4all.nl>

On Tue, Jan 02, 2001 at 10:16:42PM +0100, Alex Martelli wrote:
> "Thomas Wouters" <thomas at xs4all.net> writes:
> 
> > > > already has a framework for creating exactly one instance of
> > > > something: the module namespace).
> > > 
> > > Pity that isn't as flexible as an object-instance -- can't define
> > > special methods to determine how it will print, how it will
> > > let usercode loop on its items, etc.
> > 
> > Of course it can.
> 
> The module can define a class-instance object (which can in turn
> do these nice things), but it can't do them itself -- as you know
> perfectly well, so it's peculiar that you would say otherwise.

I'm afraid I don't understand the difference. Are you saying a class can't
pretend to be a list by encapsulating it, because it wouldn't do the work
itself ? Or that it can't do string operations because it doesn't do the
operations itself, but rather asks the string object to do them (in 2.0) or
asks the strop module to do it (before 2.0) ?

> > <spammodule.py>
> > class _singleton:
> > <whatever you want>
> > 
> > SingleTon = _singleton()
> > 
> > All that is required is for everyone to use spammodule.SingleTon.
> 
> So, if somebody complains that a Python lambda cannot contain
> a for loop, will you answer "of course it can" in that it can (e.g.)
> call a function which, in turn, IS able to contain such loops?

Again, I don't see the difference. I'm sorry that I apparently pissed you
off by explaining what I thought /F meant, but I can honestly say this is
the first time I've been flamed without undestanding why :) Lambda's cannot
contain 'for' loops, but you can do a 'for' loop from a lambda, by
'encapsulating' it in a function. Python lacks closures, but they can be
faked using default-arguments. Python doesn't have Perl's 'm//' or
'while(<>)', but you can achieve the same effect through the re and
fileinput modules. Python lacks C's ability to do '*(0) = 42', but you can
achieve a similar effect by using the signal module ;P

What, exactly, are you objecting to ? That everything in Python is an
object instance, whether you want it or not ?

-- 
Thomas Wouters <thomas at xs4all.net>

Hi! I'm a .signature virus! copy me into your .signature file to help me spread!



From hadidab at yahoo.fr  Fri Jan 26 15:12:58 2001
From: hadidab at yahoo.fr (=?iso-8859-1?q?ABDENOUR=20HADID?=)
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 21:12:58 +0100 (CET)
Subject: how to import GLUT??
Message-ID: <20010126201258.28119.qmail@web208.mail.yahoo.com>

hello,
I am  just beginner in python.
i have installed python and pyopengl on windows.
I tried to execute one scipt toto.py which contain:

from glut import *
def display():
    print 'display'
    .....

but I receive one error : import error : no module
named glut...

may be I have to specify the path of this file? how to
do? the glut is found in /python/opengl/glut/ ...is
the the correct file?

need I other modules?

Thank you for your help.






___________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!? -- Pour dialoguer en direct avec vos amis, 
Yahoo! Messenger : http://fr.messenger.yahoo.com



From zope at TheWebsons.com  Thu Jan  4 13:31:31 2001
From: zope at TheWebsons.com (Ben Ocean)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 10:31:31 -0800
Subject: Python vs. PHP (& Java?)
In-Reply-To: <69BC4C6AE83ED311BC9400805FA7B14AF84D52@il93exp01.css.mot.com>
Message-ID: <LOBBJMHOIFOLFIPFANHJAEJFCHAA.zope@TheWebsons.com>

Since I started this thread two weeks ago (I apologize: I knew it would
cause problems but I just had to know...), I've come to these conclusions:

PHP is a hacker's language. Why else would GNU choose Python to write
Mailman, O'Reilly not publish a book on the subject, etc.? PHP appears to be
a quick fix.

Python took a long time coming because good things don't happen overnight.
It's clean code: the opposite of a hacker's language.

Python can efficiently do round trips as good as any language most of the
time.

I may still have to learn Java because it's robust and more popular
(currently) than Python :(

Thanks for your help!
BenO

-----Original Message-----
From: python-list-admin at python.org [mailto:python-list-admin at python.org]On
Behalf Of Kemp Randy-W18971
Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2001 7:53 AM
To: 'Alex Martelli'; python-list at python.org
Subject: RE: Python vs. PHP (& Java?)

Hey, guys!  We are all getting philosophical again - embracing either
Darwinism, pragmatism, etc.  We would all get into big trouble if some
academic professor of philosophy took up Python programming as a hobby,
subscribed to this newsletter, and decided to shoot some holes in our
various philosophical viewpoints.

-----Original Message-----
From: Alex Martelli [mailto:aleaxit at yahoo.com]
Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2001 7:44 AM
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: Re: Python vs. PHP (& Java?)


<rturpin at my-deja.com> wrote in message news:92jffg$cs1$1 at nnrp1.deja.com...
> I wrote:
> >> .. If you want to look for adaptation, sexual selection
> >> may have more to do with this than natural selection. A
> >> silver tongue will not save you from the lion or bag
> >> the deer, but it will win a heart.
>
> In article <92j7q0033j at news1.newsguy.com>,
>   "Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote:
> > Sexual selection, particularly female-choice, IS very much
> > a part of natural selection ..
>
> I had the notion that Darwin distinguished the two. Not to

Oh yes, very much so -- particularly in 'Descent of Man',
of course; he basically posited them as different, even
competing mechanisms, seeing 'natural' selection as
inherently 'adaptive', 'sexual' selection as sometimes
to the contrary.  Fisher, I believe, contributed some
crucial insight in terms of a mathematical model of
"runaway sexual selection", and even more recent scholars
weighed in heavily on this side.

> imply that sexual selection is unnatural, but simply to
> differently label the two mechanisms. But I could remember
> wrong; I am no biologist.

Me neither: but I have hubris enough to strongly side
with more recent theorists in the field (of course, I
guess I would be incensed if a biologist expressed
himself as strongly in, e.g., the single versus multiple
inheritance schools of MY professional field -- but, as
everybody and his cousin DO think themselves past masters
at programming, the least I can do is reciprocate:-).

Briefly (cfr. e.g. Dorak's "Notes on Elementary Evolutionary
Biology", which offer the advantage of good web availability
at http://dorakmt.tripod.com/evolution/index.html):
"""
When fitness is seen as reproductive success rather than
simply survival, sexual selection [...] is no different from
what natural selection does
"""
and as reproductive success is the *only* 'fitness'
criterion that *ever* gets 'selected' for, the *only*
sense in which 'adaptive' can be read, the attempt
at drawing a fundamental distinction appears misguided
to me.  "Ability to survive", just like "being a
desirable mate for the other sex", or any other effect
of a phenotype's traits, is _indirectly_ adaptive in as
much as it can promote reproductive success.

I should, however, have acknowledged the traditional
distinction, and I apologize for the omission of such
acknowledgment!


Alex




--
http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list




From root at rainerdeyke.com  Mon Jan 29 13:59:39 2001
From: root at rainerdeyke.com (Rainer Deyke)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 18:59:39 GMT
Subject: marshal doesn't work with "file-like" objects
References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010126135016.029c4d90@mail.mindspring.com> <mailman.980540325.4462.python-list@python.org> <94t1bi$m73$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <Wyxc6.9225$AH6.1522817@newsc.telia.net> <950a3c$27b$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <aORc6.9326$AH6.1567365@newsc.telia.net> <9546rk$15i$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <XKhd6.10096$AH6.1624190@newsc.telia.net>
Message-ID: <v4jd6.131325$ge4.47830781@news2.rdc2.tx.home.com>

"Fredrik Lundh" <fredrik at effbot.org> wrote in message
news:XKhd6.10096$AH6.1624190 at newsc.telia.net...
> Chuck won't just give up:
> > I must be missing which post you refer to. I ultimately responded to
> > the Tim Peters post that I see.
>
> here's his post:
>
>     You could do this instead:
>
>         filelikeobject.write(marshal.dumps(object))
>
>     Reading a sequence of marshaled values back from a file-like object is
more
>     of a puzzle!
>
> Note the second part ("more of a puzzle" is a polite way to say
> "impossible, if you care about performance").

This could be fixed by modifying marshal like this:

1. Modify 'marshal.dumps' to prepend the string with its length encoded as a
fixed-length string.

2. Modify 'marshal.loads' to skip the first 'n' bytes of the string, where
'n' is the length of the fixed-length string from above.

3. Implement 'marshal.dump' in terms of 'marshal.dumps'.  This wins you
file-like objects without significant performance loss, since there is only
a single write.

4. 'marshal.load' loads the fixed-length string from above, translates it
into an integer 'n', and reads an additional 'n' bytes.  It then passes the
all data read onto 'marshal.loads'.  File-like objects are again practical,
since there are only two reads.


--
Rainer Deyke (root at rainerdeyke.com)
Shareware computer games           -           http://rainerdeyke.com
"In ihren Reihen zu stehen heisst unter Feinden zu kaempfen" - Abigor




From alain at onesite.org  Fri Jan 12 13:17:52 2001
From: alain at onesite.org (Alain TESIO)
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 19:17:52 +0100
Subject: NewBie: How Can I Scan The Keyboard In Python?
References: <93ku2c$gtr$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <epn76.5525$Qb7.771036@newsb.telia.net> <93n1tg$a6v$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <ohiu5ts1djrb0bms9mrmu21cee4ae64boq@4ax.com>

On Fri, 12 Jan 2001 13:47:30 GMT, jbranthoover at my-deja.com wrote:

>Hello Fredrik,
>	Thank you for your response.  I guess that neglected to mention
>that I am running Python 1.5.2 on a Lynx (not linux) box.  I suppose
>that the msvcrt module makes use of windows API calls and must run on a
>windows based system?
>
>	Anyway thanks for the information.  If you have any other
>Ideas,  please pass them along.  Have a great day...!

I think you can use select to check if there is something in stdin.
Look at "man select" for an example in C.

Alain



From bobhicks at adelphia.net  Wed Jan 17 21:54:32 2001
From: bobhicks at adelphia.net (Robert L Hicks)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 02:54:32 GMT
Subject: MAC IDE & Debugger
Message-ID: <B68BC4B9.8DF4%bobhicks@adelphia.net>

I really like the MAC version of the Python IDE and Debugger...even over
IDLE.

I only wish that it had basic (bolding maybe) syntax highlighting.

Bob



From root at [127.0.0.1]  Fri Jan  5 01:21:18 2001
From: root at [127.0.0.1] (deadmeat)
Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 06:21:18 GMT
Subject: MySQL with Windows
Message-ID: <yJd56.9184$KY1.25399@news1.rivrw1.nsw.optushome.com.au>

Is there anywhere I can download pre-compiled MySQL modules with no
dependencies? MySQLdb seems to need MSVC..




From cobrien at Radix.Net  Tue Jan 30 20:30:16 2001
From: cobrien at Radix.Net (Cary O'Brien)
Date: 30 Jan 2001 20:30:16 -0500
Subject: How do you lock your web app data?
References: <956uqd$6st$1@newsreaderg1.core.theplanet.net> <957286$kde$1@reader1.imaginet.fr>
Message-ID: <957pr8$ce2$1@saltmine.radix.net>

I hate to be picky but..

In article <957286$kde$1 at reader1.imaginet.fr>,
Gilles Lenfant <glenfant at equod.com.nospam> wrote:
>If you play with lot of small files and few users you can use "lock files"
>with the same name as the file the user is supposed to modify.
>This is not "pythonic" but a general algorythm that can be done in python or
>whatever:
>
>start cgi
>if not exists "myfile.lock"

This looks ok, but there is a hole here.  Two processes can do the if
not exists before the touch and bad things will happen.  This will in
all likelyhood (murphy) happen sooner or later, most likely at times
of high system load and hence personal stress.

>  touch "myfile.lock"
>  # play with "myfile.txt"
>  ...
>  # end play with "myfile.txt"
>  rm "myfile.lock"
>else
>  reply "resource in use, come back later" to the user (or anything else
>relevant)
>endif
>end cgi
>

>Of course, this will not be appropriate to big traffic and if the cgi script
>crashes (beetween "# play..." and "# end play...") and leaves
>"myfile.lock"... nobody will be capable of using your application.
>

100% true, but the hole exists even if it doesn't crash.  Reliable
dotfile-locking is a pain, even on Unix where you know which
operations are atomic.  I have no clue about NT.  

>In some months, your application complexity will perhaps grow such that
>staying with cgi technology will lead to headaches for you and your server.
>
>There are better "pythonic" solutions than cgi for playing with shared
>complex objects and lots of users in a "safer" way. see Zope at www.zope.org
>that offers an open source Python based applications server that's better
>suited to complex Web based applications.
>

Absolutey!

Zope is definitely one good way to go.  As is an RDBMS, even if it
seems like overkil at the start.  Nothing like being able to add complex
features to the system with a couple of lines of sql.  (Zope plays 
nicely with most RDBMSes).

-- cary



From Alain.Desilets at nrc.ca  Fri Jan 19 08:09:17 2001
From: Alain.Desilets at nrc.ca (Alain Desilets)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 08:09:17 -0500
Subject: Testing for is-kind-of relationships (at runtime)
References: <3A6779A4.E9315EB1@nrc.ca> <a1L96.7186$Qb7.1066900@newsb.telia.net>
Message-ID: <3A683C7D.E336101E@nrc.ca>

Thanks.

Fredrik Lundh wrote:

> Alain Desilets wrote:
> > For example, suppose x is an instance of A which is a subclass of B
> > which is a subclass of C. I want to be able to ascertain at run time
> > that x is a descendant of class C.
>
> assert isinstance(x, C)
>
> Cheers /F

--
Alain D?silets

Research Officer
National Research Council Canada
Institute for Information Technology

Agent de recherche
Conseil national de recherche Canada
Institut de technologies de l'information

email/courriel: alain.desilets at iit.nrc.ca

---
Arguing with an engineer is like mud wrestling with a pig.
You soon realize you both enjoy it.
---




From jurgen.defurne at philips.com  Thu Jan 25 02:43:37 2001
From: jurgen.defurne at philips.com (jurgen.defurne at philips.com)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 08:43:37 +0100
Subject: Running program in background
Message-ID: <0056900015413900000002L002*@MHS>

Under Windows you have two options :
- Use Cygwin to build Python, and then you have fork and exec
- Use Python for Windows, then you must use the spawn calls

Unfortunately, the spawn calls are not completely documented in the Python manuals.
Thanks to the fact that we have MSDN here, I can tell you more.

First, contrary to what the manual says, the following functions are implemented in module
'os':
	- spawnl
	- spawnle
	-spawnv
	-spawnve
The 'spawnl' calls take a variable number of arguments, the 'spawnv' calls take a list
or tuple for arguments.

Usage :
	spawnl[e](options, program, arg0, arg1, ....)
	spawnv[e](options, program, argument_list)

The first argument for program must be the name of the program itself, and then
must the real arguments of the program follow.

Example :
	spawnl(os.P_DETACH, 'd:\\python20\\python', 'python', 'script.py')

If you use the option os.P_DETACH, then you can kill the parent process.

There is no real parent-child relationship between spawning and spawned
processes.

Hopes this helps,

Jurgen




m.j.fisher at ex.ac.uk@SMTP at python.org on 24/01/2001 19:50:36
Sent by:	python-list-admin at python.org
To:	python-list at python.org@SMTP
cc:	 
Subject:	Running program in background
Classification:	

Hello,

I am building a program for use on Windows and Linux and I don't want
the user to have it on their taskbar all the time getting in their way,
my problem is that I don't know how to run a program in the background
on Windows, I have used os.fork on Linux but this doesn't work on
Windows....

Thanks in advance :-)

Shelley

--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list





From rjroy at takingcontrol.com  Sat Jan 20 18:19:09 2001
From: rjroy at takingcontrol.com (Robert Roy)
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 23:19:09 GMT
Subject: adding the XML to 2.0 to be a mistake?
References: <mailman.979611383.15529.python-list@python.org> <3d8zocuqrd.fsf@kronos.cnri.reston.va.us> <3a646756.124812921@news1.on.sympatico.ca> <mailman.979890203.7090.python-list@python.org> <3a6910f0.129337937@news1.on.sympatico.ca> <p6qvgr9q1l3.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <3a6a191b.196964890@news1.on.sympatico.ca>

On 20 Jan 2001 23:51:36 +0100, Martin von Loewis
<loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de> wrote:

>> I may be misinterpreting the spec but if I declare standalone="no"
>> with a non-validating parser, should it not ignore entities that it
>> can't find?
>
>Maybe its a misunderstanding. If you were talking about entities
>declared in an external subset (i.e. in a DTD), then they are not
>undeclared.
>
>So if the document has no DOCTYPE declaration and then uses truly
>undeclared entity references, the document is ill-formed, and even a
>non-validating parser must report that. 
>
>The section of the spec you cite only allows a parser to ignore
>external entities if they can be assumed to have a definition in the
>external DTD subset.
>

Thanks, I had not made that distinction. Makes sense when you think
about it. 

>> If I interpret the spec properly then expat's behavior (at least as
>> included with 2.0)  is questionable. It should not choke on an
>> undeclared entity ref since it must assume that it is declared
>> elsewhere.
>
>And indeed, it doesn't. For me, it parses
>
><!DOCTYPE bla SYSTEM "hallo.dtd">
><bla>&test;</bla>
>
>just fine, whereas it "chokes" on
>
><bla>&test;</bla>
>
>just as it should.
>

Yes, if I add the DOCTYPE declaration, then it works too.

>> I want it all correct AND flexible <g/>. Now if we can just hook in
>> here and override there...
>
>It seems then that xml.parsers.expat is just for you - atleast if you
>want to process XML. If you want to process something like XML, then
>you should stick with xmllib.
>

Well this has been a fruitful thread for me. Between your replies and
Paul's, I now have a better understanding of the XML spec and best of
all I can now see a clear way to start making better use of pyexpat.


Thanks Martin, Paul


Bob


From gerhard.nospam at bigfoot.de  Tue Jan 23 23:10:13 2001
From: gerhard.nospam at bigfoot.de (Gerhard =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 05:10:13 +0100
Subject: [ANN] PyGreSQL win32 binaries available
Message-ID: <3A6E55A5.7610DB3D@bigfoot.de>

Finally I have managed to build PyGreSQL v3.1 for Windows. A full
distribution (binary + patched source) is available at
http://highqualdev.com. This is for Python 2.0. I have sent the relevant
patches to the maintainer, so hopefully they will show up in a future
version of PyGreSQL.

Installing the distribution should be as easy as issuing

	python setup.py install

on a command prompt.

This is the first release, so I'd welcome any feedback on how well it
works for you.

Gerhard

PS: Btw, I have updated the MySQLdb win32 dist. to version 0.3.1.
-- 
Sorry for the fake email, please use the real one below to reply.
contact: g e r h a r d @ b i g f o o t . d e
web:     http://highqualdev.com


From bwaskiew at indiana.edu  Mon Jan 15 17:57:09 2001
From: bwaskiew at indiana.edu (Brian Waskiewicz)
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 17:57:09 -0500
Subject: py_compile in windows
Message-ID: <93vviq$71b$1@flotsam.uits.indiana.edu>

In Windows 98, how do I use py_compile.compile to make a .py file into a
.pyc file?

Thanks.

Brian Waskiewicz
bwaskiew at indiana.edu
____________________________





From nils.hensel at online.de  Sat Jan 20 06:41:53 2001
From: nils.hensel at online.de (Nils Hensel)
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 12:41:53 +0100
Subject: How to chop list n-elements at a time
References: <94bjs8$5nn$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <94btkj$lem$1@news.online.de>

This is all I can come up with at this time of the morning ;o)

def bunch (mylist, times):
  copy = mylist [:]
  new = []
  while copy:
    item = []
    for i in range (times):
      try:
        item.append (copy.pop(0))
      except IndexError:
        item.append (None)
    new.append (item)
  return new

It does the job but I have the distinct feeling that it can be written
shorter using map() or something.
Hope it helps,
Nils


<cpsoct at my-deja.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:94bjs8$5nn$1 at nnrp1.deja.com...
> I've been at this a while and can't seem to get it to work. I am
> wondering if others know how, have tried, or already have written a
> func to package up list elements in sublists n at a time.
>
> I was able to get something that worked for bunches of 1, or 2, but i
> am wondering how to make the tool more general so that i could say:
>
> x=[1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9]
>
> bunch(x,1) --> [[1], [2], [3], [4], [5], [6], [7], [8], [9]]
> bunch(x, 2) --> [[1,2], [3,4], [5,6], [7,8], [9, None]
> bunch(x, 3) --> [[1,2,3], [4,5,6], [7,8,9]]
> bunch(x, 4) --> [1,2,3,4], [5,6,7,8] [9, None, None, None]]
>
>
> The algo. i was using for two at a time for example just tested for
> even and odd. but i am not sure how to do generalize to create the
> above.
>
> cheers,
> kevin parks
> cpsoct at lycos.com
>
>
>
>
>
> Sent via Deja.com
> http://www.deja.com/




From gerhard.nospam at bigfoot.de  Wed Jan 10 15:51:39 2001
From: gerhard.nospam at bigfoot.de (Gerhard =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E4ring?=)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 21:51:39 +0100
Subject: compiling .cgi files
References: <mailman.979152311.14641.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3A5CCB5B.547F92FA@bigfoot.de>

As a quick hack, you could write a wrapper script like this:

wrap.cgi:
#!/bin/sh
python realscript.pyc

I can't think of any other way, apart from hacking the Python source
itself.

Gerhard

carlhiga at yahoo.com wrote:
> 
> Hello,
> 
> I'm running some python cgi scripts that need to have the '.cgi'
> extension in their filename.
> 
> Is there anyway to get them to be byte code compiled? I understand
> that if they were '.py' files I could simply import them using the
> interpreter and it would produce the '.pyc' files. But I don't know
> how to do this with '.cgi' files.

-- 
Sorry for the fake email, please use the real one below to reply.
contact: g e r h a r d @ b i g f o o t . d e
web:     http://highqualdev.com


From claird at starbase.neosoft.com  Fri Jan  5 12:30:28 2001
From: claird at starbase.neosoft.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: 5 Jan 2001 11:30:28 -0600
Subject: Whose functions are realer (was: Migrating to perl?)
References: <V%c56.4648$of7.221797@news1.atl> <3Fa56.4580$of7.216286@news1.atl> <mailman.978670867.31055.python-list@python.org> <mailman.978711967.28730.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <356AB932B7198FB4.3EC0B75D519810CE.57FCF0BC6A8679C4@lp.airnews.net>

In article <mailman.978711967.28730.python-list at python.org>,
Moshe Zadka  <moshez at zadka.site.co.il> wrote:
			.
			.
			.
>Well, there isn't anything like taint, but I've found no use for it.
Do you not use rexec?
>In Python, you use real functions to do stuff you do via `` in Perl.
Aahz said this, too.  I don't get it.  Myself,
I fault Perl for making too *many* system things
into accessible functions.  I certainly don't
think of its library as deficient in body count.
>Compare
>
>print $_, "\n" for (split `ls`);
>
>And
>
>for file in os.listdir('.'):
>	print file
Also compare with
  print "$_\n" for (glob "*");

I bet there's something here I need to learn.  Yes,
I can imagine there are historical reasons Perlites
backtick rather freely, but I'll repeat:  to the
best of my knowledge, it's not because Perl lacks
for functions.
			.
			.
			.
>Similarily for other thing. AFAIK, the above is the idiomatic Perl to
>do it. Not to mention wildcard interpretation: it's done directly
You and I speak somewhat different Perls.
			.
			.
			.
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at NeoSoft.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://starbase.neosoft.com/~claird/home.html


From echapin at sympatico.ca  Sun Jan 14 20:26:45 2001
From: echapin at sympatico.ca (Elliott Chapin)
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 01:26:45 GMT
Subject: names
Message-ID: <pls86.100769$f36.4497959@news20.bellglobal.com>

How can I get the name of an object as a string? As a biginner I might
imagine something like

>>>b=[[1],[2]]
>>>name(b)
'b'



---------------------------------------------------------------

Elliott Chapin          www3.sympatico.ca/echapin




From jurberg at my-deja.com  Tue Jan 16 13:26:29 2001
From: jurberg at my-deja.com (John Urberg)
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 18:26:29 GMT
Subject: Building a Python OCX
Message-ID: <9423o8$309$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

Is it possible to build a visual Python OCX control?
Can I access Python objects thru OLE?
How complex is it?

Thanks,
John Urberg


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From andrew_dot_henshaw_at_earthling_dot_net  Mon Jan 15 08:11:43 2001
From: andrew_dot_henshaw_at_earthling_dot_net (Andrew Henshaw)
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 08:11:43 -0500
Subject: re findall mod for issue of side effects
References: <mailman.979546103.2078.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <t65u2uhfr0qgfb@corp.supernews.com>

"Tim Peters" <tim.one at home.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.979546103.2078.python-list at python.org...
> Except that's what non-capturing parens are for, in the context of
> re.findall() and *everywhere else*.  Adding a unique wart to findall() is
> probably a poor idea unless it's astonishingly useful.

...snip...

>
> Sure did.  But your pattern after "grouping" is also radically different
in
> another way:  it can match an empty string, where your original pattern
> could not.  And a pattern that can match nothing everywhere is a very
> strange pattern for findall() (what is it you're trying to find then?  a
> bunch of nothings?  that's what you're *telling* it to find).  You do
> strange things, you get strange results.
>
> A pattern matching what it appears you *intended* to search for here:
>
> >>> r = re.compile('(?:abc)+(?:xyz)*|(?:xyz)+')
> >>> r.findall(s)
> ['abcabcxyz']
> >>>
>
> That is, don't hand findall a pattern than matches empty strings, and it
> won't return empty matches.

Introducing empty matches was by mistake.  I should have left the pattern at
(abc)+xyz

There is a problem with (?:) that I brought up in 'Using re -side effects or
misunderstanding'.

...snip...

> > Does anybody else see this [grammaticGrouping] to be as useful
> > as I do?
>
> Sorry, I don't:  I see it as misusing findall(), and then adding a wart to
> cover that up.  But then I'm always generous in my assessments <wink>.
>
> More generally useful would be a new flag on regexp compilation meaning
"all
> my parens are non-capturing".  Then that part of it could be enjoyed by
all
> uses of regexps, not just findall.  I don't see a need for that, but it
> wouldn't be particularly damaging.

This is what I had suggested (well, maybe not, see below) in yesterday's
take on this subject (see:
'Using re -side effects or misunderstanding') and would be my preferred
design.  I looked at the code and became worried that the effect of that
flag would have deep consequences that I wasn't going to foresee in my quick
examination.  Therefore, I thought I'd limit the 'wart', as you call it, to
the area that I was particularly interested, for demonstration purposes.

As to your suggestion (a new flag on regexp compilation meaning "all my
parens are non-capturing"), I'd still like to retain the ability to use the
non-capturing flag to exclude portions from the return string.  This may be
what you're stating, but I'd like the flag to indicate that parens are for
grammatical grouping - they do not  force a tuple return.

Thus,
s='..abcxyz..'
r=re.compile('(ab)+(?:c)(xyz)+')
r.findall(s)

would return

['abxyz']

(I should put a fractional wink in here about null strings)


>
> If you're going to ask findall() to match empty strings, though, filter
'em
> out yourself.

Yes, I agree.  That bit of code shouldn't be in there.  I realized that late
last night, when I was playing with the patch.  Also, the patch is flawed in
that it doesn't handle the '(?:)' type of parens correctly.  The problems
one generates when one tries to rush a 'product' out the door.


>
> cruel-but-fair-ly y'rs  - tim
>
Not cruel at all.

AH




From dkuhlman at rexx.com  Fri Jan 12 18:07:58 2001
From: dkuhlman at rexx.com (Dave Kuhlman)
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 23:07:58 -0000
Subject: HTML embeded with python
References: <MPG.14c7bd1a9ff02ee1989689@news.hutch.com.au> <t5qga871ee9jad@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <979340877.647591@rexx.com>

The Python-within-HTML processing in Zope is done by DTML (document
template markup language), which is a package within the Zope
distribution.  DTML can be used independently of Zope.  I tried
hooking DTML processing into my Python code.  It was easy
*and* cool.  I was able to pass the DTML processor a look-up
object, which DTML would use to find my objects and then call the
methods in them.

By the way, another thread just mentioned where to find and use the
implementation of ZODB (Zope object database) independent of Zope,
and I'm suggesting that it's possible to use DTML independent of
Zope.  And I'm pretty sure that the Web server inside Zope
(ZServer/Medusa) can be used independent of Zope.  Is Zope like a
toolkit, or what?  Can users of other languages get this kind of
loose coupling and reuse?  I don't think so.  That's kind of sad.

Also, I hope that the Zope people at Digital Creations are getting
plenty of credit for Zope.

  - Dave


Jason Cunliffe <jasonic at nomadicsltd.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Derek,
> 
> Well (the.__BIG__.one = 'Zope')
> 
> http://www.zope.org
> 
> New much awaitd/improved version 2.3.x now emerging fom CVS and O'Reilly
> book soon out [being printed now] will allow a lot of very cool Python in
> web pages..
> 
> But free download now of current 2.2.5 will keep you well occupied.
> http://www.zope.org/Products/Zope/2.2.5
> 
> Zope is free, object-oriented, cross-platfrom web applciation development
> system mostly in Python and using Python modules and syntax extensively.. an
> exapnding universe and a busy community travelling along with it..
> 
> imho: well worth the learning curve. It's going to be a very interesting
> year.
> 
> good luck1
> 
> - Jason
> ___________________________________________________________
> Jason CUNLIFFE = NOMADICS['Interactive Art and Technology']
> 
> Derek Lavine <derek at realware.com.au> wrote in message
> news:MPG.14c7bd1a9ff02ee1989689 at news.hutch.com.au...
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I am very new to python, in fact I have only just picked up my first
>> book. I am thinking of using python for web apps and was just wondering
>> if there are any modules out there that make it possible to embed python
>> in the HTML pages so that one can easily build web pages based on the
>> result of database queries and things like that.
>>
>> I have used coldFusion quite a bit and it of course makes this sort of
>> thing very easy. I know there are solutions of this type in perl but
>> since I am keen to use python in this context (initially as a means to
>> get acquainted with the language) I thought I would ask them that are in
>> the know.
>>
>> Thanks for any pointers or suggestions
>>
>> Derek
> 
> 

-- 
Dave Kuhlman
dkuhlman at rexx.com


From nhead at houbits.com  Wed Jan 24 09:04:18 2001
From: nhead at houbits.com (Nigel Head)
Date: 24 Jan 2001 14:04:18 GMT
Subject: Markov.py
References: <94eavq$5cl$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <94eulk$dduhj$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de> <3A6B7716.68A62115@home.com> <94h5he$9kl$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <94ides$6t2$1@animus.fel.iae.nl> <94jrt701eg4@news1.newsguy.com> <94l59e$4kc$1@animus.fel.iae.nl> <94mbet01ruh@news2.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <903399A6Babbrvfgtyloup@131.176.85.36>

All of which goes to prove that the natural language of most advanced 
pythoneers is certainly dutch (double in this case) :-)

If_anyone_calls_me_an_oxymoron_they're_probably_right!

N.



From LangaK at discoveryhealth.co.za  Mon Jan 22 05:19:52 2001
From: LangaK at discoveryhealth.co.za (Langa Kentane)
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 12:19:52 +0200
Subject: What does Python do
Message-ID: <A69BC9CA4B39D411BF2200105A45B45B075B8C80@dhexchange.discoveryhealth.co.za>

The are shit loads that python can do.
Go to http://freshmeat.is.co.za / www.freshmeat.net and just do a search for
python, just to get a few.

You can write webservers, games, whatever... in python
Anaconda, the program that installs RedHat Linux, is written in python.

-----Original Message-----
From: Dead Dan [mailto:danielhill at brightok.net]
Sent: 22 January 2001 09:02
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: What does Python do


What kinds of programs can you make with Python. Does anyone have some
examples.

Dan


-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list



From jens.vogelgesang at de.bosch.com  Mon Jan 15 05:13:53 2001
From: jens.vogelgesang at de.bosch.com (Jens Vogelgesang)
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 11:13:53 +0100
Subject: Garbage Collection
Message-ID: <93uigd$om1$1@proxy.fe.internet.bosch.de>

1) How can I free used memory.
    myHash = {}, del(myHash}
2) Can I force a Garbage Collection??




From timd at macquarie.com.au  Sun Jan 28 19:06:30 2001
From: timd at macquarie.com.au (Timothy Docker)
Date: 29 Jan 2001 11:06:30 +1100
Subject: Tkinter vs wxPython: your opinions?
References: <3A6F899F.E164F628@home.com> <94qeme$ep4$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <m4isnm3fchl.fsf@macquarie.com.au>

Greg Landrum <glandrum at my-deja.com> writes:

> There's already been a lot of good stuff posted in this thread, but
> I'll go ahead and toss in my several cents.

I've used both tkinter and wxPython reasonable extensively for some
real applications. One thing that I haven't seen mentioned so
far....

wxPython has a cross platform printing solution. It took a bit of
fiddling, but I got graphics printing working on both windows and
linux with the same code. As far as I am aware, there is nothing like
this for tkinter that hides the details of printing, and deals with
print dialogs, page format dialogs, etc, etc.

This is a big win if you need it.

Tim




From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Tue Jan 30 12:10:03 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 18:10:03 +0100
Subject: Wrapping up a C++ class
References: <954496$ues$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <9546rv01ahd@news2.newsguy.com> <9565q3$nnh$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <Fkxd6.9841$Qb7.1506259@newsb.telia.net>
Message-ID: <956shd0149r@news2.newsguy.com>

"Fredrik Lundh" <fredrik at effbot.org> wrote in message
news:Fkxd6.9841$Qb7.1506259 at newsb.telia.net...
    [snip]
> well, it does strike me as odd that there are C++ programmers
> out there who don't understand C:

There are, yes -- but, I think, they're not as many as C++
programmers who (while understanding C just fine) do not
understand _C++_... THAT is something that strikes even
more people as odd, I believe.


Alex





From kirschh at lionbioscience.com  Thu Jan 18 03:37:46 2001
From: kirschh at lionbioscience.com (Harald Kirsch)
Date: 18 Jan 2001 09:37:46 +0100
Subject: How to close all files between fork and exec?
References: <yv27l3upooj.fsf@lionsp093.lion-ag.de> <944o0k$pi0$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu> <ylu26xa8yx.fsf@windlord.stanford.edu>
Message-ID: <yv2y9w92r39.fsf@lionsp093.lion-ag.de>

Russ Allbery <rra at stanford.edu> writes:

> In comp.unix.programmer, Donn Cave <donn at u.washington.edu> writes:
> > Quoth Harald Kirsch <kirschh at lionbioscience.com>:
> 
> >> On some systems there is a constant like OPEN_MAX but I read that on
> >> recent Solaris versions there is no real limit to it.  How do I get
> >> hold of the highest numbered open file descriptor, in particular in
> >> python?
> 
> > Unfortunately it looks to me like no one has ever put getdtablesize()
> > in Python.
> 
> That's probably because the more portable way to do this is to use either
> sysconf(_SC_OPEN_MAX) or getrlimit(RLIMIT_NOFILE, &rl).

Out of curiosity I would like to know what these functions return on
Solaris where, as I heard, there is no real limit. How does a shell
(sh, tcsh) on such Solaris systems close all files of forked/execed
subprocesses. Does Solaris set close-on-exec by default on every file
descriptor opened?

  Harald Kirsch
-- 
----------------+------------------------------------------------------
Harald Kirsch   | kirschh at lionbioscience.com | "How old is the epsilon?"
LION Bioscience | +49 6221 4038 172          |        -- Paul Erd?s
       *** Please do not send me copies of your posts. ***


From fredrik at effbot.org  Thu Jan  4 08:32:13 2001
From: fredrik at effbot.org (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 13:32:13 GMT
Subject: list operation '+= ' or assignment problem
References: <fXV46.83554$A06.2935629@news1.frmt1.sfba.home.com>
Message-ID: <xX_46.2919$AH6.516601@newsc.telia.net>

Joe Smith wrote:
> I guess that list assignment is an assignment of the reference
> to the object and it does not copy the object.  Where as a
> string object gets copied.

Alex: No.
Erno: No.
Greg: Yes, in a way.
Steve: Yes.
Tim: No.

time for a poll? ;-)

Cheers /F




From jvanar1 at my-deja.com  Tue Jan 30 17:02:25 2001
From: jvanar1 at my-deja.com (jvanar1 at my-deja.com)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 22:02:25 GMT
Subject: Cannot find libModules.a lib*.a, etc...
References: <9578l9$nj3$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <t3Gd6.10295$Qb7.1525608@newsb.telia.net>
Message-ID: <957dlb$sel$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

Hello again,

Is that to say that I don't even *need* libModules.a, etc, just link
with libpython2.0.a ? ?
-Jim


In article <t3Gd6.10295$Qb7.1525608 at newsb.telia.net>,
  "Fredrik Lundh" <fredrik at effbot.org> wrote:
> jvanar1 at my-deja.com wrote:
> > I have a serious dilemma.  I am trying to embed python into C and
I'm
> > having the most difficult time locating libModules.a libParser.a and
> > libObjects.a.  From what I read they were supposd to have been
created
> > in their respective folders (i.e. Python/Modules/libModules.a) but
are
> > not. I tried re-building and installing the newest version (2.0)
> > several times.
>
> looks like you've been using old embedding docs; the library
> name was changed in 1.5 (released in january 1998).
>
> $ cd Python-2.0
> $ ls -l *.a
> -rw-r--r--    1 eff     bot       3473280 Jan 12 09:39 libpython2.0.a
>
> Cheers /F
>
>


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From r2d2 at mao.acc.umu.se  Tue Jan 30 03:23:00 2001
From: r2d2 at mao.acc.umu.se (Niklas Frykholm)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 08:23:00 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Python vs Ruby
References: <94mdkd$222e$1@news.adamastor.ac.za> <p6qwvbjtr97.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de> <mailman.980510622.2558.python-list@python.org> <slrn97adcd.scu.r2d2@mao.acc.umu.se> <954fd0$rri$1@panix3.panix.com>
Message-ID: <slrn97cuf4.a90.r2d2@mao.acc.umu.se>

>>AND I WISH THEY WOULD BOTH STOP DOING
>>
>>    - Automatic promotion of integers to floats...
>
>Where does Python automatically change ints to floats (except in the
>return value of an expression that *already* contains a float)?

That's when. I think 3 / 2.0 should throw an exception.

But that's just me.

// Niklas


From glandrum at my-deja.com  Fri Jan 26 10:03:43 2001
From: glandrum at my-deja.com (Greg Landrum)
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 15:03:43 GMT
Subject: Tkinter vs wxPython: your opinions?
References: <3A6F899F.E164F628@home.com> <94qeme$ep4$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <3A7135C8.38D65D34@proceryon.at>
Message-ID: <94s3k7$p9e$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

In article <3A7135C8.38D65D34 at proceryon.at>,
  Horst Gassner <horst at proceryon.at> wrote:
>
> At the moment I am in the situation where I have to decide if we stick
> on Tkinter or if we should change to wxPython. I am using Tkinter/Pmw
> for almost 8 month and the following points are the one which I
dislike
> most:
> - no table widget/grid (I made my own but it _is_ like a nightmare)

:-S

> - no tree widget (I used a simple one which is freely available and
made
> some extensions)

I thought about mentioning the tree widget, but I wasn't sure if my
memory that Tkinter didn't have a good one was correct.

> - speed (canvas widgets are very powerful but unfortunately slow)
>
> The last point is the most important one. I am happy with my table and
> tree widget regarding to there functionality but the performance is a
> big drawback. And speed is the reason why I think about wxPython more
> and more.

If you can't try Tkinter 3000, you might want to spend some time in the
profiler trying to figure out where your Tkinter code is spending
its time.  As I said in my original post, it is possible to get dramatic
drawing speed improvements if your data is structured properly.

The first part of this old message:
http://x54.deja.com/getdoc.xp?
AN=484767422&CONTEXT=980521245.1630535743&hitnum=15
has an example.

>
> Tkinter 3000 raised my hopes because it should be 2-10 times faster in
> "a typical application". But when will the first final release be
> available? How much is the perfomance boost for canvas widgets (I use
> them in my table and tree widget)?

Can't you just try it out?  (Note: I haven't looked much at Tkinter 3K,
so I don't know how easy it is to "just try it out").

-greg


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From howard at eegsoftware.com  Thu Jan  4 13:35:43 2001
From: howard at eegsoftware.com (howard at eegsoftware.com)
Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 18:35:43 GMT
Subject: Pmw.Blt with Tkinter
References: <930lem$nu0$1@news.nuri.net>
Message-ID: <3a54c24a.8151081@news-server.socal.rr.com>

On Thu, 4 Jan 2001 10:58:29 +0900, "June Kim"
<junaftnoon at nospamplzyahoo.com> wrote:

>I've downloaded Pmw, and Blt(blt2.4u-for-8.3.exe) for windows. Pmw was
>installed on my system quite successfully, as the demo seems working right,
>but BLT parts are not working at all. It says that BLT is not installed --
>it is installed under the \python20\tcl directory.
>
>How can I notify my system that I've installed BLT?
>(I guess I should add some lines indicating the path to some files)
>
I got it to work (!!!) by copying the BLT24.DLL into the SAME 
directory as the python 2.0 executable.

The problem seems to be that the Pmw loader uses the Tcl loader 
which uses the old-style Windows LoadLibrary procedure which uses 
a "standard" set of load paths.  Apparently, the BLT dll is not on any
of  those paths, perhaps because Python puts the tcl directory under
Python20  instead of in "Program Files\Tcl".


Howard Lightstone
EEGSoftware
howard at eegsoftware.com


From moshez at zadka.site.co.il  Sun Jan 14 08:14:57 2001
From: moshez at zadka.site.co.il (Moshe Zadka)
Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 15:14:57 +0200 (IST)
Subject: Python language suggestion
In-Reply-To: <002b01c07dd0$08bb3510$6501a8c0@EM2>
References: <002b01c07dd0$08bb3510$6501a8c0@EM2>, <93l4ve$no3$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <20010113154813.2F5A5A828@darjeeling.zadka.site.co.il>
Message-ID: <20010114131457.A6F00A828@darjeeling.zadka.site.co.il>

On Sat, 13 Jan 2001, "Chris Ryland" <cpr at emsoftware.com> wrote:

> Why doesn't the attribute reference (primary "." identifier) work for any
> dictionary-like object?
> 
> E.g., why doesn't
> 
> f = {'a': 1, 'b': 2}
> print f.a
> 
> work while
> 
> f['a']
> 
> does? (I mean from a language design standpoint, not why doesn't it work
> currently.)

f = {'keys' : 1 }
f.keys() -> ['keys']
f['keys'] -> 1
-- 
Moshe Zadka <sig at zadka.site.co.il>
This is a signature anti-virus. 
Please stop the spread of signature viruses!



From tim.one at home.com  Sun Jan 28 17:43:21 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 17:43:21 -0500
Subject: "in" for dicts (was: Python 2.1 function attributes)
In-Reply-To: <3A7496A7.253B7B67@caltech.edu>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCCENMILAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Nathaniel Gray]
> ...
> If I was to ask you, "Tim, is 'larch' in Webster's dictionary?" would
> you reply, "Yes, it's under 'L'", or would you reply, "No, there's no
> 'larch' section, just A,B,C,D,..."?
>
> (I know you'd _actually_ reply "Look it up yourself!" ;^)

None of the above, actually.  I'd say "yes, and its value is probably like
the value it has in the American Heritage Dictionary, which is

    1.Any of several deciduous, coniferous trees of the genus Larix,
      having needlelike leaves clustered on short shoots and heavy,
      durable wood.

    2.The wood of these trees.


    [German L?rche, from Middle High German larche, from
     Latin larix, laric-.]

    Excerpted from The American Heritage Dictionary of the English
    Language, Third Edition Copyright ? 1992 by Houghton Mifflin
    Company. Electronic version licensed from Lernout & Hauspie Speech
    Products N.V., further reproduction and distribution restricted
    in accordance with the Copyright Law of the United States. All
    rights reserved.
"

> "in" just doesn't imply "has_key" for dictionaries.

For overwhelmingly most people, most of the time, I think it does.  In
common usage, "Peters, Tim" is "in" the Northern Virginia phone book too, a
large dict mapping names to phone numbers.

> Note for thos> who don't read python-dev:  It seems this "feature" is
> being added to facilitate the use of dictionaries as sets, so you can
> say:
> 	if something in my_set:
> 		something.foobar()
> and the like.

It would be helpful for that purpose, but Ka-Ping Yee has been suggesting it
for years independent of that purpose, and Guido didn't seem to have sets in
mind when he approved it.

    [Eric S. Raymond]
    > Independently of implementation issues about sets, I think this
    > is a damn fine idea. +1.

    [Guido]
    > No chance of a time-machine escape, but I *can* say that I agree
    > that Ping's proposal makes a lot of sense.  This is a reversal of
    > my previous opinion on this matter.  (Take note -- those don't
    > happen very often! :-)
    >
    > First to submit a working patch gets a free copy of 2.1a2 and
    > subsequent releases,

[back to Nathaniel]
> Couldn't we just have a collections module for Python that gave us a set
> class (and all the other wonders that CS can produce) without mucking up
> dictionaries?

Even better, we can have both -- except the collections module has to wait
for a volunteer to design and write it, while Thomas already submitted a
working patch for "mucking up dictionaries".

that-lucky-bastard-gets-*all*-the-free-alpha-releases-ly y'rs  - tim




From jnix at medi.physik.uni-oldenburg.de  Wed Jan 10 13:06:11 2001
From: jnix at medi.physik.uni-oldenburg.de (Johannes Nix)
Date: 10 Jan 2001 19:06:11 +0100
Subject: SpecFuncs Module
Message-ID: <93i8am$msj@news.Informatik.Uni-Oldenburg.DE>

Hi,

I need an implementation of the Modified Bessel Function to calculate
the van Mises distribution function, a statistical distribution for
circular data.

I remember that there is a SpecFuncs Module from 
Travis Oliphant, which seems to be a wrapper for the 
Netlib cephesmodule.

However, Travis' page at http://oliphant.netpedia.net was not
reachable in the last few days. Could somebody point me to a mirror
site, or perhaps someone has the module and is willing to send it to
me ?  (But please, mail me before!).

Another question, is there a repository for mathematical code
additionally to vaults of parnassus? Many numerical routines are
rather small, but need considerable testing and / or literature
research. It would be quite interesting to gather mathematical Python
code. In this point, Python users could learn from MathWorks, Matlab's
vendors: They follow Open Source models and gather
contributions. (While the Matlab core remains to be a quite expensive
product.) I think the Python Culture (and the language features, of
course) is probably better suited for the interests of academic
research. I believe most researchers won't have any problems in
planning their software such that general numeric routines can be cut
out and shared.

kind regards,

Johannes Nix



-- 
jnix at medi.physik.uni-oldenburg.de

Universt?t Oldenburg
AG Medizinische Physik
Digital Hearing Aid Algorithms





From etsang at my-deja.com  Fri Jan 26 16:54:26 2001
From: etsang at my-deja.com (etsang at my-deja.com)
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 21:54:26 GMT
Subject: How to check memory usage/leak of python script with C extendtion ..
Message-ID: <94srme$gr9$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

Hi,

I am having a python script that interacts with a C executable through
its pyhon C extension. I would like to monitor the memory usage of the
whole thing? Do anyone know how to do it? Is there a tool availble for
memory usage monitoring and memory leakage check for this situation??

regards


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From donn at u.washington.edu  Wed Jan 17 13:24:20 2001
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: 17 Jan 2001 18:24:20 GMT
Subject: How to close all files between fork and exec?
References: <yv27l3upooj.fsf@lionsp093.lion-ag.de>
Message-ID: <944o0k$pi0$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>

Quoth Harald Kirsch <kirschh at lionbioscience.com>:
|
| Python has fork/exec. I want to use it. After fork and before exec I
| would like the child process to close all files other than 0, 1 and 2
| (i.e. standard input/output/error). 
|
| On some systems there is a constant like OPEN_MAX but I read that on
| recent Solaris versions there is no real limit to it.
| How do I get hold of the highest numbered open file descriptor, in
| particular in python?

Unfortunately it looks to me like no one has ever put getdtablesize()
in Python.  It isn't literally POSIX 1003.1, but I believe like other
things in the "posix" module is X/Open and widely supported on UNIX
type platforms.  That seems to me to be the way it's usually done in C,
as you probably know.

In Python, if there's anything like standard operating procedure, it's
simply to use a fixed value of 256.  If that's low, it's also economical -
an invalid descriptor is a little more expensive to close in Python
because of the requirement for exception handling.

	Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu


From tim.one at home.com  Sat Jan 27 02:20:54 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 02:20:54 -0500
Subject: c(++)python?
In-Reply-To: <3A71EB9C.D258C1C0@comm.mot.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCEEJNILAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Stephen Boulet]
> ...
> Why is the most popular implementation of python in C? A novice
> programmer (like myself) might think:  "python is itself an
> object-oriented language, so it would make sense to implement it in
> another object-oriented language."
>
> Is this in fact the case, or was c++ not standardized/mature enough
> when python first came out?

Even ANSI C (1989 flavor) wasn't implemented widely enough when Python came
out, so Python in fact stuck to a subset of K&R C.  It wasn't until last
year (2000) that we first insisted people use an ANSI C (1989 flavor)
compiler!  Before then, the code base was littered with macro tricks to let
people keep using K&R C compilers.

Given the number of odd platforms Python is ported to, C++ would still be a
major gamble.  If history repeats, around 2010 we'll insist that people
finally use a 1999-flavor ANSI C compiler (although there's some doubt that
vendors will actually implement all of C99).

BTW, implementing an OO language in another OO language has its own
pitfalls, and especially if the OO models don't coincide exactly.  You end
up writing your own runtim code to do, e.g., method lookup anyway.  And for
interoperability with legacy code, you can't let the implementation language
decide object storage layout either.  Etc.  I'd rather do *anything* in C++
than in C, but in the case of implementing Python it would be more for "C++
is a tastier flavor of C" reasons.

still-if-you-reimplement-python-in-c++-please-post-the-patch-
    to-sourceforge<wink>-ly y'rs  - tim




From vsbabu at erols.com  Tue Jan 23 18:41:03 2001
From: vsbabu at erols.com (Satheesh Babu)
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 18:41:03 -0500
Subject: TidyCOM from ActivePython
Message-ID: <94l4ov$gga$1@bob.news.rcn.net>

 Hi,

I'm still a beginner with Python COM programming. There is
a COM implementation of HTML Tidy at
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/ablavier/TidyCOM/options.html

I was wondering if anyone has examples on how to call this from
Python so as to fix HTML files. My idea is to use this on
a Zope installation that runs on NT4.0.

Thanks in advance

--
v.s.babu
vsbabu at erols.com
http://vsbabu.csoft.net




From fredrik at effbot.org  Sun Jan  7 17:37:50 2001
From: fredrik at effbot.org (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2001 22:37:50 GMT
Subject: examples of PIL and pallets?
References: <87k8898v0p.fsf@lumen.med.iupui.edu>
Message-ID: <2d666.4420$Qb7.631530@newsb.telia.net>

Michael Miller wrote:
> Can anyone point me to an example of using pallets and image
> mode 'P' with PIL?

http://effbot.org/guides/creating-palette-images.htm

hope this helps!

cheers /F




From tim.one at home.com  Thu Jan  4 03:57:46 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 03:57:46 -0500
Subject: Unexpected result for list operator "+="
In-Reply-To: <mfW46.227356$U46.7026522@news1.sttls1.wa.home.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCGEKOIGAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Greg Jorgensen]
> You discovered the documented behavior. Assignment of immutable objects
> (numbers, strings, tuples) essentially makes a copy of the object.

Not so.  Assignment (although it's better to think of it as "binding",
because "assignment" often carries inappropriate baggage from other
languages) never makes a copy of anything.

> Assignment of mutable objects (lists, dictionaries) creates a new
> reference to the original object.

True of all bindings, and without exception.  Note that the argument-passing
mechanism in Python also falls under this rule:  passing an argument merely
binds the formal argument name to the passed object (and so there's never
any copying done at call sites either).  The "import X [as Z]", and "from X
import Y [as Z]", statements are also binding mechanisms, and so also never
make copies.

>>> a = [1, 2, 3]  # list (mutable)
>>> b = a
>>> a is b  # a and b name exactly the same object
1
>>> c = "[1, 2, 3]" # string (immutable)
>>> d = c
>>> c is d  # c and d name exactly the same object
1
>>>

No difference in behavior so far.  The difference is in what happens next:

>>> a += [4]
>>> a is b  # still the smae object
1
>>> c += "4"
>>> c is d  # but these are different now
0
>>>

The meaning of "+=" is decided by the object on the left-hand side.  Lists
*choose* to modify themselves in place in response to +=.  They *can* do so
because they're mutable, but they didn't *have* to do so.  It was an
implementation choice, and there was general agreement that a mutating +=
would be most useful most often for lists.

Strings, however, don't have this choice:  since a string is immutable, it
cannot change itself in place, even if it wanted to.  Strings (along with
all other immutable objects) have a different choice:  in response to +=, a
string can can either return a new object to represent the result, or refuse
to implement += at all.  Again, it was thought more useful more often for
strings to return a new object than to refuse to do anything.

Lists (along with all other mutable objects) *could* have chosen to return a
new object instead of mutating, or could have refused to implement +=.  As a
rule of thumb, objects of mutable types generally do choose to mutate,
though.

Now for a subtlety <wink>:

>>> d
'[1, 2, 3]'
>>> e = d
>>> d is e  # no surprise here:  same object
1
>>> d += ""
>>> d is e  # still the same object!
1
>>>

That shows an optimization strings happen to perform when responding to +=:
if the new value would be identical to the old value, they choose not to
bother creating a new object.  That's also true of regular old string +:

>>> "cat" is "cat" + "" is "" + "cat"
1
>>>

That may or may not remain true across releases, because it's an internal
optimization.  Immutable objects can get away with tricks like this, because
when a name x is bound to an immutable object, nothing except rebinding x
can change the content of the object x is bound to, and for that reason
aliasing has no bad implications (if x and y are bound to the same immutable
object, there is nothing whatsoever you can do to y that will change x's
view of reality, nor can x pull any surprises on y -- without doing id() or
"is", they can't tell whether they're bound to the same object or to
distinct objects that happen to compare ==).

in-some-ways-it's-too-simple-to-grasp-at-first-if-you're-accustomed-to-hairi
er-
    languages-ly y'rs  - tim





From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Jan  5 07:59:57 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 13:59:57 +0100
Subject: OO in Python (was Re: Migrating to perl?)
References: <3Fa56.4580$of7.216286@news1.atl> <933fa1$j2i$1@newshost.accu.uu.nl> <ggd56.4652$of7.222552@news1.atl>
Message-ID: <934ghv02hg0@news2.newsguy.com>

"Joel Ricker" <joejava at dragonat.net> wrote in message
news:ggd56.4652$of7.222552 at news1.atl...
    [snip]
> From your examples, Pythons class model is much cleaner.  Also if I
> understand your example, variables internal to the object are kept
> internal -- they can't be accessed without a proper method.  With perl

You can arrange things as to avoid *accidental* direct accesses to
object-instance attributes, but client-code is still able to get
around your precautions and reach the 'real' attributes if it so
wishes.  That's why the emphasis on avoiding *accidents* -- this
is not a *security* mechanism, in Python.

Python relies *a lot* on code respecting certain conventions, as
opposed to *enforcing* them (in this, it's much like C++ -- although
the latter has a LOT more apparently-enforcing mechanisms, and thus
complexity, some 'casts' in the client-code can break all the apparent
'protection'... so you end up relying on conventional good-behavior
anyway, in the end; Java is different -- it does [try to] use its
access-protection to enforce security, rather than just to ward
against accidents).

If you do need enforcement, because you're getting Python code to
execute from a source you don't trust, you can go to a model of
'restricted execution', "Bastions", and so on, but that's more
complex; you only do it when you truly need it, which is NOT often.

"Do the simplest thing that can possibly work" is a good principle
(the first and foremost one in the "Extreme Programming" school,
or sect:-).  Very often, you don't mind if client code accesses
object-instance attributes freely -- the 'simplest thing' is then
to not worry about it.  You'll be surprised at how often this
works just fine, with no hassles on anybody.

Given that most needs are met by wise non-action, as above, all
of the following is somewhat "advanced"... you may be able to
write LOTS of excellent Python code without needing ANY of the
following -- very simply, and very productively, too.


Sometimes, your object-instance needs to monitor any _modification_
to its attributes, to ensure its overall state remains 'correct'
(meets the 'class invariant' you have designed).  This need is not
all that rare.  Python meets it by letting you define __setattr__:
every attempt to bind or rebind an attribute of your instance
*directly* (e.g., with the normal syntax 'inst.attrib=value') will
cause __setattr__ to be called, and it can do any monitoring needed
(forbid the modification, apply other modifications so that the
overall state stays consistent, invalidate internal caches, etc).

[But client code CAN still get at the 'dictionary' where your
instance stores its attribute name->value mapping, and do changes
*without* __setattr__ being triggered: that's not something that's
going to happen "by accident", of course!  But, again, this is
NOT a viable _security_ mechanism against untrusted client-code].


A somewhat rarer need is to 'compute' some attributes "on the
fly", or, as is also said, "lazily" -- only if, and, when the
attribute values are needed.  *This* need is met by Python's
letting you define __getattr__, which gets called any time an
access is attempted (e.g., via the normal syntax 'foo=inst.attr')
*to an attribute that is NOT in the dict*.


You can meet even-rarer needs (requiring __getattr__ to be
called anyway) by deliberately *not* keeping in the dict the
attributes that client code will access -- you can stash them
(or whatever state you need to recompute them) somewhere else,
or you can still keep them (or etc) as attributes, but under
some assumed name.  One approach to the latter is to name the
'real' attributes with two leading underscores (but _not_ two
_trailing_ underscores as well): in this case, Python will
insert the classname in the attribute name, so that if a
method of class 'Foop' accesses attribute '__peep' in one of
its instances, the real name accessed will be _Foop__peep --
this basically ensures against any accidental clash (sorry
to be repetitive, but -- again, this is NOT 'security'...).

This 'two leading underscores' naming is how you do "private"
attributes in Python, whether it be for __getattr__ purposes
or just to let a class instance keep some state that client
code is not supposed to access at all (except, presumably,
indirectly through its influence on instance behavior). (The
latter is actually a pretty rare *need* -- it only happens
with substantial frequency because people's designs are
influenced by their experience with other OO languages).


> anything goes.  There are some techniques to prevent this but it isn't
> definite.  Its actually this very topic that made me throw my new OO book
> across the room and subscribed to this newsgroup :)

Perl's object model was inspired by Python's (according to
Srinivasan's "Advanced Perl Programming"), but it's less
smoothly integrated with the language since it came to Perl
pretty late in that language's history (in the Perl 4 -> Perl
5 transition).


> I've mentioned before that I'm real new to OO.  How should I approach it
in
> Python?  Has anyone learned OO just from Python?

Yes -- it's not a common occurrence yet, I believe, but it's
what happening to my son, for example... his previous experiences
were with Pascal and machine-language, no OO in sight, and now
he's starting to use Python, so that's the context in which he's
first meeting OO concepts.

> Or should I study OO
> theory else where and then apply it to Python?  I know this is bordering
on
> the question of how do I do OO but I really know very little about it...
> enough to know that I can benefit from it and basic ideas.  I understand
the
> idea of a class and building objects from it but anything beyond that is
> still really new to me.  Any suggestions?

I don't think there is a really good "OO theory" text that does
not make some reasonably strong assumptions on the object model
that will be in use -- which, in turn, means the language that
will be in use.  If you learn OO based on an object model that
(e.g.) assumes compile-time static typing, or single inheritance,
etc, that will not make your transition to Python OO all that
smooth or easy (quite feasible, of course -- the more languages
you know and understand, the easier it is to learn any N+1-th
language, and Python IS quite easy in any event).

I suspect that the most productive path, given the current OO
literature, might be simply for you to "feel your way".  If you're
inclined to think "in diagrams", maybe some good introductory UML
text might help (but I can't suggest one -- I think in strongly
_textual_ ways, so all the diagrams confuse me more than they
help me... I suspect I'm pretty unusual in this respect).


Alex





From msoulier at storm.ca  Sun Jan 14 08:46:16 2001
From: msoulier at storm.ca (Michael P. Soulier)
Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 13:46:16 GMT
Subject: reading line by line
Message-ID: <I4i86.290010$_5.65173315@news4.rdc1.on.home.com>

    Hey people. I know that the readlines() method in file objects allows line
by line reading, but it seems to read the entire file first, which is far too
memory intensive if you're reading a massive file. Now, I know that you can do
this:

file = open(filename, "r")
line = file.readline()
while line:
    # work on file
    line = file.readline()

    But I don't like the initial readline() call to initialize line. It just
doesn't look clean to me. Is there a better way, syntactically, to do this?

    Thanks,

    Mike

-- 
Michael P. Soulier <msoulier at storm.ca>
"...the word HACK is used as a verb to indicate a massive amount
of nerd-like effort."  -Harley Hahn, A Student's Guide to UNIX
PGP Public Key: http://24.43.42.96/email.phtml


From jafo-pythonlist at tummy.com  Thu Jan 25 04:25:16 2001
From: jafo-pythonlist at tummy.com (Sean Reifschneider)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 02:25:16 -0700
Subject: ANNOUNCE: New Python 2.0 RPMs
Message-ID: <20010125022516.B17016@tummy.com>

I've just uploaded a new set of Python 2.0 SRPMs to:

	ftp://ftp.tummy.com/pub/tummy/RPMS/SRPMS

This is the release that will be going on the February KRUD
(http://www.tummy.com/krud/), so it should be very compatible with RedHat
7.0.  You'll want:

	python-2.0-2tummy.src.rpm
	expat-1.1-3tummy.src.rpm

Changes include:

	Builds to /usr/bin/python2 or /usr/bin/python
		"try before you buy"
		One-line .spec file change between the two.
	Better compatibility with RedHat/KRUD 7.0
	Expat puts xmlparse.h in /usr/include/expat/xmlparse.h to prevent a
			conflict with w3c-libwww-devel.
	Builds socket module with SSL support.
	Now includes proper bsddb support (Oops, I didn't have db1-devel last time)

Also in that FTP directory are some SRPMs for some Python modules, though the
mx* ones seem to have problems that I need to track down.  python-imaging
and Sketch seem to be working well though.

BUILDING SRPMS

Turning an SRPM into a binary RPM is easy.  Simply run:

	rpm --rebuild expat-1.1-3tummy.src.rpm

and when it completes look in /usr/src/redhat/RPMS/i386 (default) for the
binary.  This builds a binary RPM *EXACTLY* configured for the set of
libraries on your system.  Think of it as building from the .tar.gz file,
only better...  :-)

Sean
-- 
 I love the smell of napalm in the morning.  It smells like...  Victory.
Sean Reifschneider, Inimitably Superfluous <jafo at tummy.com>
tummy.com - Linux Consulting since 1995. Qmail, KRUD, Firewalls, Python



From Daniel.Kinnaer at Advalvas.be  Sat Jan 27 12:51:57 2001
From: Daniel.Kinnaer at Advalvas.be (Daniel)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 17:51:57 GMT
Subject: [Off topic] allowed to put Python material on the Web?
Message-ID: <3a730931.31998180@news.skynet.be>

Dear newgroupreaders,

As a Python newbie, I've been collecting lots of questions and answers
from this newsgroup.  It contains stuff not readily found in the many
good FAQ from the net.

Before setting up a new site, I would like to ask if it is allowed to
put my collection of questions and answers from this newsgroup (which
helped me a lot) on my site,so everyone can enjoy/learn from it
without going to the d?j? palace.

E.g.  
- the Tutor beep question
- reading a file line by line
- make a stringcopy of a list
and so on. I've collected replies from Fredrik Lundh,  Emile van
Sebille, Aahz Maruch, Alex Martelli and Sheila King to name only a
few.  Yes, I've learned a lot from you!

Thus, before starting the time-consuming task to create this new site,
I'd like to know if putting this collection on the Web is actually
legal/allowed.

Hope to hear from you soon.

Best regards,

Daniel




From tim.one at home.com  Mon Jan  8 21:57:32 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 21:57:32 -0500
Subject: why no "do : until"?
In-Reply-To: <3A55F06B.72718C5F@email.sps.mot.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCGEHKIHAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Norman Shelley (rrdn60)]
> So what has kept this proposal [for ... indexing ...] from seeing
> the light of day?

Guido actually implemented it a few years ago, but backed off when somebody
said they had a program that already used "indexing" as a vrbl name.
Keywords suck <wink>.  Before 2.0, Thomas Wouters implemented it again
without making "indexing" a keyword; that's Python patch #101138 on
SourceForge, and you can read its history there.

> It appears from your description that this would provide a nice
> speed increase.

Na, in real life it's pretty much a yawn.  Yes, it speeds up

    for i in range(len(a)):
        pass

enormously, but the more "pass" gets replaced with useful work, the less
significant the looping overhead.

> BTW, have you ever looked at fscript?
> http://csam.sps.mot.com/
> http://www.fscript.org./news.htm
> http://www.fscript.org./HighLevelOOP.pdf

Nope!  First link didn't resolve; the other two did.

> It appears to nicely marry Relational (its nice method of
> arbitrary queries without the OO nastiness of traversing) with OO.
> It would seem that Numeric.py might be a close starting point to
> designing/implementing Fscript's ideas in Python.

>From a quick glance, agreed that Numeric's users are the natural audience.
Guido will die before he allows

    A \ #+

as a way to spell "sum of all the elements in A", though.

heck-he-doesn't-even-like-"indexing"-and-that's-english<wink>-ly
    y'rs  - tim




From tim.one at home.com  Thu Jan 11 04:26:10 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 04:26:10 -0500
Subject: Speed of Python vs. Perl
In-Reply-To: <slrn95qtbp.94d.tim@degree.ath.cx>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCEEPNIHAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Michael P. Soulier]
>> [msoulier at lupus test]$ time ./bench.pl
>>
>> real    0m2.006s
>> user    0m1.950s
>> sys     0m0.030s
>>
>> [msoulier at lupus test]$ time ./bench.py
>>
>> real    0m0.558s
>> user    0m0.440s
>> sys     0m0.050s

[Tim Hammerquist]
> How much of these times is the startup time for the interpreters?
> Python has a profiler, and the Standard Perl Dist. includes the
> Benchmark module for this purpose.  This would give you a more accurate
> picture of where the processor spends its time.

Python generally suffers much larger startup time than Perl.  Indeed, on my
box, I can clearly see the difference between:

python -c "print 'hi'"

and

perl -e "print 'hi'"

by eyeball (the former takes a noticeable fraction of a second; the latter
appears instantaneous).  The reasons for Python's relative startup sloth
have been discussed here often; a big one is that Python runs around looking
for Python files (like site.py and sitecustomize.py) at startup, and
typically does a big pile of failing fstats while failing to find those
files along the PYTHONPATH.

Despite that, Python is typically faster overall for me than is Perl.  Then
again, the things I typically do may not be typical ...

has-trouble-spelling-"web"-let-along-programming-it-ly y'rs  - tim




From p at mjs400.co.uk  Tue Jan 16 00:19:36 2001
From: p at mjs400.co.uk (Pete)
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 06:19:36 +0100
Subject: Python and Industry, IBM I'm afraid
References: <20010111172342.10148.00000934@ng-ca1.aol.com> <HnO86.78962$_G5.11779533@typhoon.nyroc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <3A63D9E8.F9B74ACE@mjs400.co.uk>

Has anyone ported Python to IBM iSeries 400?...Or is this considered too
much hassle, because they are  big fat trucks of servers - and come
bundled with no GUI support (they have had posix for many years)?...Or
are people waiting for Linux support in a logical OS partition?...Or
does no one care?

I say this because in the rarified atmosphere of this newsgroup (hee
hee) an ignorant observer might well think that Python thrives only in
academy land.
--Pete

Darrell wrote:
> 
> I'm swimming in Python work and increasingly Zope work also.
> 
> Python is fun. Customers and their employees can be infected with this
> virus.
> This may be an instance of a trans human/computer virus.
> 
> Write a bunch of software and your customer will often worry about you
> leaving.
> Who will take care of this stuff? So they limit your tools, among other
> annoying things.
> When they start asking these questions, I produce one of their
> Pythonized/Zombie employees.
> Who nods their head up and down when asked if they could maintain this
> stuff.
> 
> And the conquest continues!
> I should become a distributor of introductory Python books, what a racket :)
> 
> --Darrell
> 
> "Crutoy" <crutoy at aol.com> wrote:
> > Hi , does anyone know how widly in an instries does python being used ? I
> > looked at the syntax of it and read some stuff on it,it's interested i
> just
> > want to know if it's worth learning it. Thanks


From dnew at san.rr.com  Tue Jan 30 19:47:39 2001
From: dnew at san.rr.com (Darren New)
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 00:47:39 GMT
Subject: SSL EOF
References: <mailman.980662149.14963.python-list@python.org> <980790776.835347129@news.silcom.com> <3A75DEB9.308FE746@san.rr.com> <980877001.384793985@news.silcom.com>
Message-ID: <3A7760AB.A05E98DE@san.rr.com>

Clarence Gardner wrote:
> Here is the relevant code.  I don't know what error==6 signifies, but even
> if the other side closed improperly, I don't think that's so significant as to
> warrant making these sockets behave differently from non-ssl ones.

Well, that's the "read" side. I meant if the "write" side was (say) dumping
core rather than calling SSL_close(). I suppose (*if* this is the problem)
that the authors of the SSL library felt it was important to know if someone
tried to interfere with the communications, which might result in such an
error.

-- 
Darren New / Senior MTS & Free Radical / Invisible Worlds Inc.
San Diego, CA, USA (PST).  Cryptokeys on demand.
"It says this wine has syphilis."
               "I think that's pronounced `sulphates'."


From edcjones at erols.com  Tue Jan  9 09:45:05 2001
From: edcjones at erols.com (Edward C. Jones)
Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2001 09:45:05 -0500
Subject: string escaping problems with MySQLdb
References: <93f2cr$ofq$1@news2.dtag.de>
Message-ID: <3A5B23F1.DF12A445@erols.com>

BxT wrote:

> Hi, i know this is a new-bie question,

Not a newbie question. A difficult question.

>
> i'm using MySQLdb and, as i'm extracting records, i get string escaped as
> follows:
> for example, instead of ? i'm getting \\337 (yes, with doppel \). When i'm
> printing the string i'm getting blah\337 (internally is blah\\337). I tried
> to use string.replace but it's giving me the same string. Is there a way to
> print blah??
> For now, thanks in advance,
> BxT

I have never understood the MySQL / MySQLdb escaping rules. Therefore I encode
the data before storing it. None of the characters in base64 output need to be
escaped.

nice_data = base64.encodestring(raw_data)
raw_data = base64.decodestring(nice_data)

Since my data are large Python objects, I also pickle and compress them:

nice_data = base64.encodestring(zlib.compress(cPickle.dumps(python_object)))
python_object = cPickle.loads(zlib.decompress(base64.decodestring(nice_data)))

Good luck,
Ed Jones




From thomas at xs4all.net  Wed Jan 31 17:19:38 2001
From: thomas at xs4all.net (Thomas Wouters)
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 23:19:38 +0100
Subject: how to store great array?
In-Reply-To: <kud7d43u1h.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>; from erno-news@erno.iki.fi on Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 12:17:14PM +0200
References: <953sps$nta$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <slrn97bjo6.8va.quinn@bolivar.ugcs.caltech.edu> <mailman.980846556.5007.python-list@python.org> <kud7d43u1h.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>
Message-ID: <20010131231938.P962@xs4all.nl>

On Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 12:17:14PM +0200, Erno Kuusela wrote:
> In article <mailman.980846556.5007.python-list at python.org>, Thomas
> Wouters <thomas at xs4all.net> writes:

> | pointer + int + int + long + pointer (ob_sval is a placeholder that gets
> | allocated to the right size in the PyString_New) = 160 bytes on a 32bit
> | system, 256 bytes on a proper 64bit system, and 224 bytes on Win64. Plus the
> | length of the string in whatever size a char is on that particular system
> | (usually a single byte.)

> however, this will only hold for machines with 1 bit per byte. :)

Eh, duh, yah. Read 'bits' instead of 'bytes', except for the last statement
about the size of a char. I bet it was early when I wrote that :)

-- 
Thomas Wouters <thomas at xs4all.net>

Hi! I'm a .signature virus! copy me into your .signature file to help me spread!



From claird at starbase.neosoft.com  Fri Jan  5 11:48:02 2001
From: claird at starbase.neosoft.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: 5 Jan 2001 10:48:02 -0600
Subject: What makes Python Python (was: OO in Python (was Re: Migrating to perl?))
References: <3Fa56.4580$of7.216286@news1.atl> <934ghv02hg0@news2.newsguy.com> <3284C8A2D218D5A4.904FDBE7634A2E21.13E03F073E968847@lp.airnews.net> <934noe02o73@news2.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <539E710FEE28868A.F662E7742C1EF657.E6B88A1E12AECD1E@lp.airnews.net>

In article <934noe02o73 at news2.newsguy.com>,
Alex Martelli <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote:
>"Cameron Laird" <claird at starbase.neosoft.com> wrote in message
>news:3284C8A2D218D5A4.904FDBE7634A2E21.13E03F073E968847 at lp.airnews.net...
>    [snip]
>> Does *Object-Oriented Software Construction*
>> not make your "cut-off", Alex?
>
>It's a really good book.  It also leans heavily on strong
>assumptions on the object-model: compile-time static typing,
>multiple-inheritance, classes, no multimethods (dispatching
>only on the one object that 'receives the message'), etc.
>
>Some of the assumptions fit in well with Python (mi, classes,
>no multimethods), others go very much against its grain (no
>compile-time static typing).
>
>
>> Hmm; perhaps your examples answer my question.
>> I'll counter, though, that even single-inheri-
>> ted Python is quite a wonderful thing.
>
>If one subscribes to this view, then maybe Liu's "Smalltalk,
>Objects, and Design" may be suitable -- it was several years
>ago that I read it, and my memory of it is not very sharp,
>but, as I recall, it _was_ a really good book (some Smalltalk
>orientation, of course; but if one can take deep differences
>such as single vs multiple inheritance in stride, then a few
>syntax-sugar issues &c might not matter all that much).
>
>Instance data in Smalltalk are never visible outside the
>object instance, so the OO style you'll learn from this is
>going to be somewhat heavy with accessor/mutator methods.
>But I guess that's all right, as long as one keeps it in
>mind that this approach may not be optimal in Python.
>
>
>Alex
>
>
>

You deliver valuable content so charmingly I feel privileged
simply to copy everything once more without elision.

Your particulars inspire me to a tangent:  what's makes
Python's character?  One of the things I thing we should tell
newcomers is that it's a superlatively "tolerant" language;
even if you use only tiny pieces of Python, it can feel good.
Contrast this with, say, Perl, where regular expression-think
determines so much, or Java, which insists that a strong OO
model be nearby.  Ask Python to be a procedural language for
you, though, and it calmly acquiesces.

So:  how's Python special?  Well, I'll dismiss white space
and much else as (mere, but also crucial) syntactic sugar.  
Exceptions are important, and distinctive; moreover, they
predicate multi-method style.  Similar languages frolic
pridefully with their overloading, but Python simply expects
objects to sort out for themselves what to do with messages:
lovely!  Metaprogramming is some of the best of Python ... 
There's also something (or a couple of things?) to say in
this context about testing, but I don't yet know how to
articulate it.

Also:  Python generally makes the One Right Coding clear, is
nicely portable and agnostic, and has the "advisory" thing
(it's easier to write safely, but you can introspect yourself
into danger if you choose) going at several levels.
-- 

Cameron Laird <claird at NeoSoft.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://starbase.neosoft.com/~claird/home.html


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Jan  5 05:07:12 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 11:07:12 +0100
Subject: How to send cookies
References: <newscache$ylbn6g$ss1$1@news.cesatel.es> <932ab206uv@news2.newsguy.com> <newscache$cmho6g$plg$1@news.cesatel.es>
Message-ID: <9346e6026sg@news2.newsguy.com>

"David L?pez" <dlopezp at norsistemas.es> wrote in message
news:newscache$cmho6g$plg$1 at news.cesatel.es...
> Thank you very much.
>
> Concretely our problem is that we don?t know how to SEND cookies. We
already
> have worked with Java cookies. We would thank you if you can ask our
> question.

Cookies are 'sent' (if enabled), as a part of some HTTP requests, by
the 'client', in 'Cookie: ' HTTP headers in the request.

Cookies are also 'sent' (if desired), as part of an HTTP response, by
the 'server', in 'Set-Cookie: ' HTTP headers in the response.

I suspect the latter 'sending' is what you're asking about?

Say, for example, that you are writing a CGI script in Python.  The
script will output (typically with 'print') the 'HTTP response' that
the requesting client will receive.

A typical toy response including no cookies might be, for example,
generated by this script whattime.py:

import time
print "Content-type: text/html"
print

print "<p>The time is now %s" % time.ctime(time.time())

When a client (e.g., a browser) visits this CGI script (e.g.,
with a GET of http://what.ever.com/cgi-bin/whattime.py) it
will receive an HTTP response whose headers end with
'Content-type: text/html' (the blank line given by the print
right after that terminates the headers), then an HTML body
of something like '<p>The time is now Fri Jan 05 10:49:29 2001'.

OK so far?

Good.  Now, if the CGI script also wants to 'send' (set) a
cookie, it will generate an extra header of 'Set-Cookie:'.

For example:

import time
print "Content-type: text/html"
print "Set-Cookie: greeting=hello"
print

print "<p>The time is now %s" % time.ctime(time.time())

That's all there is to "sending a cookie" (if by 'send' you
mean 'set'): just generate the appropriate Set-Cookie header,
and voila.

You can check that this is working by reading back the
cookie (that the client sends as the 'Cookie' header, so
you can access it as the HTTP_COOKIE environment variable,
if it exists):

import time, os
print "Content-type: text/html"
print "Set-Cookie: greeting=hello;"
print

print "<p>The time is now %s" % time.ctime(time.time())
if os.environ.has_key('HTTP_COOKIE'):
    print "<p>Cookie is %s" % os.environ['HTTP_COOKIE']
else:
    print "<p>No Cookie."

The first time a client visits this script, the response
will end with 'No Cookie'; on each following occasion, if
the client has cookies enabled, the response will end with
'Cookie is greeting=hello'.


Now, Python has a 'Cookie' module to help you prepare the
cookies you may want to send (set) -- but the 'sending'
(setting) itself is always done by having a suitable
'Set-Cookie' HTTP header in the response; the cookie
object helps by letting you use it as a dictionary and
generating the 'Set-Cookie' when you print it.

Here, for example, we set ('send') two cookies -- one,
as before, and one through the Cookie module:

import time, os, Cookie
print "Content-type: text/html"
print "Set-Cookie: greeting=hello;"
cookie = Cookie.SimpleCookie()
cookie['name']='Alex'
print cookie
print

print "<p>The time is now %s" % time.ctime(time.time())
if os.environ.has_key('HTTP_COOKIE'):
    print "<p>Cookie is %s" % os.environ['HTTP_COOKIE']
else:
    print "<p>No Cookie."

Now, after a first visit, on following visits the response
will end with 'Cookie is greeting=hello; name=Alex'.


I hope this answers your question "how to send cookies":
to summarize, the answer is "arrange for Set-Cookie HTTP
headers to be sent in your HTTP response, in whatever
way you like to so arrange (by preparing and printing
such headers directly, by preparing Cookie.SimpleCookie
objects and printing them as part of your response's
headers, whatever)".


Alex





From tim.one at home.com  Wed Jan 10 15:51:44 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 15:51:44 -0500
Subject: Reading Microsoft Outlook Express .dbx files
In-Reply-To: <000901c07b3d$7a70acc0$0201a8c0@holdenweb.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCIENKIHAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Steve Holden]
> ...
> The problem with the usual techniques of saving as text, and some
> mailing solutions, is that attachments are frequently ignored.

Sorry, no idea what that means.  Ignored by whom?  If I tell Outlook to mail
an attachment, Outlook does not ignore my suggestion <wink>.  On the other
end, the attachment Outlook generates is ignored only if the receiver
intentionally ignores it.

> I overcame the inability to deal with .pst files by importing
> from Outlook to OE.

I don't recall the details now, but last time I tried that I found that
"some kinds" of info got lost systematically during Outlook -> OE transfers.
So test that very carefully.  May have had something to do with HTML mail in
particular.

> I also imported my Netscape mail, though I had already managed
> to deal with that in Python.

Speaking of which, I believe some popular (with everyone but me <wink>)
non-MS Windows email clients offer to import your OE mail stores.  Perhaps
even Netscape.  So that's more code you could look at.

> all-my-eggs-now-firmly-in-one-basket-ly y'rs  - steve

just-don't-make-your-basket-so-full-that-bill-gates-gets-
    envious<wink>-ly y'rs  - tim




From isard at localhost.localdomain  Thu Jan 25 11:02:19 2001
From: isard at localhost.localdomain (Carles =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sadurn=ED?= Anguita)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 17:02:19 +0100
Subject: Python and postgreSQL ??
References: <slrn96uhcq.1u1.isard@localhost.localdomain> <kuy9w05sds.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi> <mailman.980401708.18002.python-list@python.org> <kur91s5ffu.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>
Message-ID: <slrn970jga.17f.isard@localhost.localdomain>

El 25 Jan 2001 08:11:33 +0200, Erno Kuusela <erno-news at erno.iki.fi> va escriure:

>seems the latest version of pygresql doesn't have the pgtools
>thing. but, it doesn't use the db-api interface either.
>
>i guess best advice to the original poster would be to
>find some generic db-api examples and use those.

Thanks you all. Where can I find docs for _begginers_ about db-apis?
Postgresql's are not easy enough. :-(


-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Carles Sadurn? Anguita    |   no hab?a que cumplir promesas,
                          |   el cansancio era de placer,
Quita _mira_la_firma para |   las l?grimas eran de risas...
responder.                |   y parece que a?n fue ayer.
                          |           Los Suaves
------------------------------------------------------------------------


From kthangavelu at earthlink.net  Thu Jan 11 18:29:57 2001
From: kthangavelu at earthlink.net (Kapil Thangavelu)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 23:29:57 GMT
Subject: ANNOUNCE: PyXPCOM - Python bindings for Mozilla XPCOM technology
References: <93le4v$10m$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <Vlr76.687$GX3.19697@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>

very cool. i've been waiting for this one since i first heard about it.

cross platform python scripting of a strong dev. environment.

thank you activestate.

kapil




From gregj at pobox.com  Thu Jan  4 18:16:47 2001
From: gregj at pobox.com (Greg Jorgensen)
Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 23:16:47 GMT
Subject: Unexpected result for list operator "+="
References: <3A542778.E1BC06E3@bogusaddress.com> <mfW46.227356$U46.7026522@news1.sttls1.wa.home.com>
Message-ID: <zv756.231593$U46.7089647@news1.sttls1.wa.home.com>

Thanks to Fredrik, Alex, Tim, and Thomas for pointing out that Python only
binds names to objects under the hood. I was guessing (maybe wrongly) that
the original poster might not know about mutable and immutable objects,
bindings, etc. That's why I wrote "Assignment of immutable objects
essentially makes a copy of the object." I lifted the explanation almost
verbatim from Beazley's "Python Essential Reference," page 19. Beazley wrote
"... effectively creates a copy..." but it amounts to the same thing--a
simplification. The real distinction--that assignment operations on
immutable objects create new objects (or bind a reference to a different
existing object)--is important but perhaps more information than necessary
to answer the question.

I appreciate the clarifications and detailed implementation info.

--
Greg Jorgensen
PDXperts
Portland, Oregon, USA
gregj at pobox.com





From bobhicks at adelphia.net  Fri Jan 19 11:26:39 2001
From: bobhicks at adelphia.net (Robert L Hicks)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 16:26:39 GMT
Subject: MAC IDE & Debugger
References: <B68BC4B9.8DF4%bobhicks@adelphia.net> <3A679B55.BE95A2AA@americasm01.nt.com>
Message-ID: <B68DD4BD.8F51%bobhicks@adelphia.net>

I think you can do 4 in the preferences...but it doesn't seem to stick.

> From: "Lee, Rick" <rickylee at americasm01.nt.com>
> Organization: Nortel Networks
> Newsgroups: comp.lang.python
> Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 20:41:41 -0500
> Subject: Re: MAC IDE & Debugger
> 
> I think it does have colored syntax highlighting.  In any window, at the
> right hand side near the top, there is a right-arrow button; try clicking on
> that; it actually expands into a menu.  You will find all kinds of neat
> things in that menu.
> 
> My gripe is that there is no way to tell its editor to automatically expand
> tab keystroke to 4 spaces.  Most of the files that I am working with come
> from other people, who use 4 space indent convention.
> 
> - Rick
> 
> Robert L Hicks wrote:
> 
>> I really like the MAC version of the Python IDE and Debugger...even over
>> IDLE.
>> 
>> I only wish that it had basic (bolding maybe) syntax highlighting.
>> 
>> Bob
> 



From python-group at rascal.remove_this_bit.org  Sun Jan 14 14:49:37 2001
From: python-group at rascal.remove_this_bit.org (Steve George)
Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 19:49:37 +0000
Subject: storing passwords
References: <93rdmr$ihu$1@flotsam.uits.indiana.edu> <mailman.979457595.1335.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <8Nm86.199$0U2.12374@news.dircon.co.uk>

You _really_ don't want to store passwords unless you are in some ultra-clean
environment where you know you'll never get cracked - that is there is
_no_ external access (and even then!)

1)  Using telnet means you are in the clear so your passwords are at risk
on the system and in transit.  In additon you have no protection against
someone stealing your session - hunt will do this for example.  So an
attacker has a good chance to grab your password or just wait for
authentication and then steal the connection.

Use Ssh instead of telnet if you can.

2)  Whichever way you cut it you will risk passwords or authentication
info on the client when you are not in attendance.

a)  If you have to use Ssh public keys

b) If it's information you are grabbing why not write one script on the
server which ftps the information to a drop-box (some ftp space).  Then
write a client program which logs in and grabs the info.  By using a
drop-box at least you are only giving the attacker access to a
non-interactive login - using http/ssl password protected area is better.

Steve

In article <mailman.979457595.1335.python-list at python.org>, "Moshe Zadka"
<moshez at zadka.site.co.il> wrote:

> On Sun, 14 Jan 2001, "Brian Waskiewicz" <bwaskiew at indiana.edu> wrote:
> 
>> I have a Python script that makes a Telnet connectio to a remote server
>> and right now I have the password just stored within my code.  I'd
>> don't like the idea of leaving the password available like that (the
>> script runs automatically every night, so I can't prompt the user for
>> it), so is there any other way to store the password in some kind of
>> encrypted fashion??
> 
> Read the fetchmail FAQ on ESR's site to see why this does not afford any
> kind of protection.
> (Hint: If you encrypt it, where would you put the key?)
>


From rerla at channing.harvard.edu  Mon Jan 22 11:05:16 2001
From: rerla at channing.harvard.edu (Ross Lazarus)
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 11:05:16 -0500
Subject: crypt module for windows? - fcrypt.py
References: <4cla6.2291$Jw.511062@typhoon2.ba-dsg.net>
Message-ID: <3A6C5A3C.AD4BD7C@channing.harvard.edu>

To answer my own question:
<nervous> 
is it ok to talk to yourself on a newsgroup?
</nervous>

I spent some more time with google and found
http://home.clear.net.nz/pages/c.evans/sw/
which has a link to fcrypt.py - it does exactly what's needed and is
pure python - probably slower than a dll wrapper but it's fine for what
I need. 

Ross Lazarus wrote:
> 
> I'm sure I once had one for python 1.52 under windows? I've looked in
> all the usual places. Yes, I know it's not usually relevant, but I need
> it to access *nix ldap passwords (which are stored crypted) from a win2k
> box. Will swap to python2 if that will help..
> 
> Advice or even better, a .pyd file appreciated..


From chris at voodooland.net  Thu Jan 11 14:38:48 2001
From: chris at voodooland.net (Chris Watson)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 13:38:48 -0600 (CST)
Subject: BUG Python 2.0 FreeBSD compile problem
In-Reply-To: <zrLdtWAEmfX6EwcR@jessikat.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.21.0101111335570.36494-100000@open-systems.net>

> I'm not su on the machine in question. Could I use ports to do my build?
> Seems pretty quick to just grab the original source and do the one & so
> far only fix. Ports/rpms/pkgs etc are a bind unless you get to know all
> about them. Why can't they just get something universal moan moan
> grumble mumble. Exits whining :)

	Eeek! Yeah not having root puts a damper on things. Its not our
fault linux has to go and reinvent the wheel on everything :-)
There is a good effort going on called openpackages.net I believe that is
unifying the /usr/ports tree across the few BSD's. Even OS X. One day you
will have the same ports tree on OS X you have on FreeBSD :-)
Which to me is pretty spiffy.

--
=============================================================================
-Chris Watson         (316) 326-3862 | FreeBSD Consultant, FreeBSD Geek 
Work:              scanner at jurai.net | Open Systems Inc., Wellington, Kansas
Home:  scanner at deceptively.shady.org | http://open-systems.net
=============================================================================
WINDOWS: "Where do you want to go today?"
LINUX: "Where do you want to go tomorrow?"
BSD: "Are you guys coming or what?"
=============================================================================
irc.openprojects.net #FreeBSD -Join the revolution!
ICQ: 20016186




From loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de  Mon Jan  1 08:45:25 2001
From: loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de (Martin von Loewis)
Date: 01 Jan 2001 14:45:25 +0100
Subject: 2001 Enchancement Wishlist
References: <3A4CEACB.220998A0@javanet.com>
Message-ID: <p6qelyns7wq.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Raymond Hettinger <othello at javanet.com> writes:

> 1.  List.append(elem) and List.pop() are great.  Let's add two more
>      methods, List.prepend(elem) and List.leftpop().  The goal is to
>      make queues,deques, and reverse stacks easier, faster, and clearer
>      to implement.

Others already commented that it wouldn't be faster; I believe it
wouldn't make deques easier to implement, either. If I had to
implement a deque, I'd use the C++ STL approach (i.e. a variable-sized
list of same-sized lists, with two indices indicating the first entry
in the first list and the last entry in the last list, out-of-range
entries being None). That way, adding and deleting to the deque is
constant-sized for reasonable access patterns, and linear with a low
factor in the worst case. 

prepend and leftpop would require linear time, as they would be
implemented as slice assignments.

Regards,
Martin



From cpr at emsoftware.com  Thu Jan 11 15:27:39 2001
From: cpr at emsoftware.com (Chris Ryland)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 20:27:39 GMT
Subject: Python language suggestion
Message-ID: <93l4ve$no3$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

This migh sound radical, but has anyone ever entertained the idea that
foo.'bar bletch' might be a useful and logical extension of Python's
current attribute selection machinery?

I realize that foo['bar bletch'] is just as good for dictionary-like
objects, but foo.'bar bletch' would be very much more attractive in one
application I'm considering (which must use AppleScript-style
attributes, which can include spaces),and it seemed like a general
improvement to allow an arbitrary (constant) string after an
attribute "oeprator" (.).
--
Chris Ryland * Em Software, Inc. * www.emsoftware.com


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From moshez at zadka.site.co.il  Sun Jan  7 12:28:46 2001
From: moshez at zadka.site.co.il (Moshe Zadka)
Date: Sun,  7 Jan 2001 19:28:46 +0200 (IST)
Subject: Iterating over multiple lists (a newbie question)
In-Reply-To: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCIECLIHAA.tim.one@home.com>
References: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCIECLIHAA.tim.one@home.com>
Message-ID: <20010107172846.21D01A828@darjeeling.zadka.site.co.il>

[Alex Martelli]
> ...
> The map builtin function, OTOH, does need to know the length of
> each sequence in advance (and the _longest_ one controls, with
> the others being 'extended' with as many 'None' as needed), so,
> no such techniques (tricks?-) are available in that case.

[Tim Peters]
> Actually, they are.  map is controlled by IndexError, same as everything
> else.  It's a rather muddy historical tale as to why it insists that len(s)
> be defined for each sequence argument s, but the largest of those is used
> only as "a hint", to preallocate a result list.  If the last occurrence of
> IndexError occurs before or after that length is reached, map shrinks or
> grows the result list accordingly.
<snipped demo>

So why can't map just assume things without length have length 0?

>From my reading of the source, you'd have to change the 

                if ((curlen = sqp->len = (*sqp->sqf->sq_length)(sqp->seq)) < 0)
                        goto Fail_2;

Into a special case for instances which first checks to see whether __len__
exists, and take the sqf->sq_length check out of the if.
Is there something bad about doing this, or has it just been lack of time?


-- 
Moshe Zadka <sig at zadka.site.co.il>
This is a signature anti-virus. 
Please stop the spread of signature viruses!



From kirby at jamesk.freeserve.co.uk  Fri Jan 26 13:01:25 2001
From: kirby at jamesk.freeserve.co.uk (Kirby James)
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 18:01:25 -0000
Subject: win32com.client - missing methods?
Message-ID: <94set0$ecf$1@news5.svr.pol.co.uk>

Hi, I've written a Python program which uses the win32com interface to
obtain information from a number of Word-97 files.
The program runs fine on my Win-98 system but fails on two NT systems.
The problem line is :-

    sAuthor = myDoc.BuiltInDocumentProperties(constants.wdPropertyAuthor)

which produces the error

    AttributeError: no __call__ method defined

When I remove this line the other COM functions that I call work fine. On
all three systems I've run the COM Makepy utility - but I notice that
the generated files are of different sizes on the different systems (is it
safe to copy - and rename the win-98 file to NT).

I'd appreciate any pointers

ta, Kirby


Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "D:\Python20\Pythonwin\pywin\framework\scriptutils.py", line 301, in
RunScript
    exec codeObject in __main__.__dict__
  File "D:\python\utilities\word2.py", line 178, in ?
    os.path.walk('d:\\relocation', walker, 10)
  File "D:\Python20\lib\ntpath.py", line 270, in walk
    walk(name, func, arg)
  File "D:\Python20\lib\ntpath.py", line 264, in walk
    func(arg, top, names)
  File "D:\python\utilities\word2.py", line 153, in walker
    readWord(pathfilename)
  File "D:\python\utilities\word2.py", line 64, in readWord
    sAuthor = myDoc.BuiltInDocumentProperties(constants.wdPropertyAuthor)
AttributeError: no __call__ method defined


    WORD  = 'Word.Application.8'

    myWord = Dispatch(WORD)
    myWord.Visible = 1
    myDoc = myWord.Documents.Open(fn)
    sAuthor = myDoc.BuiltInDocumentProperties(constants.wdPropertyAuthor)
####  line 64
    sAuthor = str(sAuthor)
    print '  Author = ' + sAuthor







From michael at stroeder.com  Tue Jan 16 09:56:23 2001
From: michael at stroeder.com (Michael =?iso-8859-1?Q?Str=F6der?=)
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 15:56:23 +0100
Subject: Web devel with python: Best route? XML to HTML translation!
References: <93cqvi0191h@news1.newsguy.com> <mailman.978910629.6814.python-list@python.org> <mailman.978975978.19612.python-list@python.org> <spenrose-E755EB.22423209012001@news.dnai.com> <93hfp1013sm@news2.newsguy.com> <93vnlv$2qq$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <3A6412BC.A07C547@stroeder.com> <941kd8$k9n$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <3A646117.6D93C80C@stroeder.com>

rturpin at my-deja.com wrote:
> 
> In article <3A6412BC.A07C547 at stroeder.com>,
>   Michael =?iso-8859-1?Q?Str=F6der?= <michael at stroeder.com> wrote:
>
> > Last time I played with a Python-written XSLT processor it
> > was pretty slow.
> 
> Did it process the filter/spec on each translation?

Uuh. I don't remember exactly. I used the XSLT processor of 4Suite
at the command-line a couple of months ago to do some tests with
XSLT defintions another guy wrote. I'm pretty sure it did not use
cached code but it was definitely too slow for doing it online.

> Some translation systems use
> a pre-processing step to convert filters/specs into
> translation code. The resulting code often performs quite
> well.

Ok, good to know that. I'm not an XML/XSLT expert...

Ciao, Michael.


From wittner at fossilverlag.de  Thu Jan 25 08:41:54 2001
From: wittner at fossilverlag.de (Toralf Wittner)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 14:41:54 +0100
Subject: smtplib --> receiving emails two times
Message-ID: <94paet$9o3$1@news.netcologne.de>

Hi Python coders,

I try to collect data from a HTML formular via cgi and email the stuff to a 
certain address. The script is as follows:


#!/usr/bin/env python

import cgi, smtplib
print "Content-Type: text/plain\n"

form = cgi.FieldStorage()
keyList = form.keys()
keyList.sort()

fromaddress = toaddress = "given_email_address"
msg = ("From: %s\r\nTo: %s\r\nSubject: topic\r\n\r\n" % (fromaddress, 
toaddress))
for i in keyList:
        msg = msg + "%s ____________________ %s\n" % (i, form[i].value)

server = smtplib.SMTP('given_server_name ')
server.sendmail(fromaddress, toaddress, msg)
server.quit()


This works basically, however all emails are received two times wich is 
annoying at least . I can't see why this happens (the given example in the 
smtplib reference is almost identical to the one above). Also note that 
using a script like the following gives me exactly one email.


#!/usr/bin/env python

import smtplib

fromaddress = toaddress = 'given_email_address'
msg = ("From: %s\r\nTo: %s\r\n\r\n" % (fromaddress, toaddress))
msg = msg + "additional_text"
server = smtplib.SMTP('given_server_name')
server.set_debuglevel(1)
server.sendmail(fromaddress, toaddress, msg)
server.quit()


(I'm using Python 2.0)

I appreciate any help concerning this problem. Thank you!
Kind regards,
Toralf Wittner



From steve at spvi.com  Sat Jan 20 08:40:38 2001
From: steve at spvi.com (Steve Spicklemire)
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 08:40:38 -0500 (EST)
Subject: FreeThreading Python?
In-Reply-To: <200101201331.f0KDVZY58692@mercury.spvi.com> (message from Steve
	Spicklemire on Sat, 20 Jan 2001 08:31:35 -0500 (EST))
References: <200101201331.f0KDVZY58692@mercury.spvi.com>
Message-ID: <200101201340.f0KDec858748@mercury.spvi.com>

Hi Again..

>>>>> "SJS" == Steve Spicklemire <steve at spvi.com> writes:

    SJS> Here's what I would love:

    SJS> <DREAM-MODE> Go to your favorite 6 processor machine.  type:

    SJS> python -c 'from test import test_thread'

    SJS> and all 6 processors are 'max-ed' out while different threads
    SJS> are scheduled on different processors.

    SJS> </DREAM-MODE>

Doh! Of course.. never mind the fact that test_thread does a lot
of 'sleep'ing so the processors would not really be used to their
full potential. ;-) Imagine instead of sleep we called something
like 'test.pystone.main()'.. 

-steve




From ljohnson at resgen.com  Thu Jan 25 12:09:02 2001
From: ljohnson at resgen.com (Lyle Johnson)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 11:09:02 -0600
Subject: what GUI, please advise
References: <3A6F0B27.A88D11C9@crepido.com> <756399CF731B46D9.57530C0D0C9C2171.472E737DF76189F7@lp.airnews.net> <3A6F18F2.536F27FE@crepido.com>
Message-ID: <t70n8raq6vomd3@corp.supernews.com>

Marco,

You might also consider the FOX GUI toolkit:

    http://www.cfdrc.com/FOX/fox.html

and its Python bindings, called FXPy:

    http://fxpy.sourceforge.net

To address your specific points:

> - I'm going to run mostly on Unix, although it would be nice
> to be able to recycle my GUI knowledge when forced to
> write for Windows. Mac, not very important...

I think for all of the cross-platform GUIs for Python this is an understood
requirement; you write your GUI code in Python and it runs identically on
any platform that supports Python. There is no Macintosh port of FOX,
however, and I wouldn't anticipate one anytime soon.

> - A GUI builder is a very big advantage. allmost a must.

There is a GUI builder for FOX (see the links from the FOX home page) but I
haven't tried it out. I suspect it only outputs C++ code, though.

> - I like there to be all the widgets one would expect from
> the Windows world.

FOX has a pretty complete set of widgets and has a Windows-ish look and
feel, but you'd need to evaluate this for your own needs. It also has very
nice support for external technologies like XDND4 drag-and-drop on Linux,
and OpenGL.

> - Easy of use for the programmer.

I suppose that's also pretty subjective, but yes, I think FOX has an
especially clean API that is easy to program against.





From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Jan  8 23:26:14 2001
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2001 23:26:14 -0500
Subject: Thank you (was Re: Should I learn Python or Java?)
References: <HEO56.5504$y9.2881293@typhoon.we.rr.com> <G2V56.5826$y9.3184141@typhoon.we.rr.com> <mailman.978901087.32745.python-list@python.org> <3A593236.6331BE0C@engcorp.com> <mailman.978987090.27504.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3A5A92E6.E2485EC4@engcorp.com>

Doug Ball wrote:
> 
> Peter you mentioned in a posting:
> 
> "I don't think I know of any language without warts, and
> I think there's a theory (from Hofstadter? (sp?)) that
> says you can't have a theory that is both consistent and
> complete."
> 
> I am a big fan of such things and was excited to see you mention it.
> However I think you may be referring to Godel's Theorem.

Exactly.  (I think it should be written Goedel, though, since
it probably had an umlaut.)

> If anyone is interested in this topic there is an excellent book entitled
> "Godel, Escher, Bach: an Eternal Golden Braid" by Douglas R. Hofstadter.  In
> his book, Dr. Hofstadter  restates Godel's theorem as: " All consistent
> axiomatic formulations of number theory include undecidable propositions."

I would have mentioned GEB but I wasn't sure how many eyes
would glaze over <wink>. Never had a copy to read, myself, but
I discussed points from it with a girlfriend once.  Hey,
at least I spelled his last name right. :)


From tim.one at home.com  Tue Jan  9 18:50:54 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 18:50:54 -0500
Subject: mxTools (was Re: why no "do : until"?)
In-Reply-To: <568019964.20010109235741@vega.bg>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCKEKFIHAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Niki Spahiev]
> IMHO for the non Numeric Python users mxDateTime is equal to complex
> numbers.

Then that's because they don't know anything about complex numbers.  But I'm
pretty sure the Numeric Python users grasp that complex numbers aren't dates
<wink>.

literally y'rs  - tim




From mwh21 at cam.ac.uk  Tue Jan 23 15:37:16 2001
From: mwh21 at cam.ac.uk (Michael Hudson)
Date: 23 Jan 2001 20:37:16 +0000
Subject: += return value
References: <94ko5t$e5n$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <m3vgr6yphf.fsf@atrus.jesus.cam.ac.uk>

shochet at hotmail.com writes:

> I am confused with the return values of the augmented assignment
> opertators. When redefining them in a class, what should they return?

self, probably.

Try this link:

http://python.sourceforge.net/devel-docs/ref/numeric-types.html#l2h-214

> Coming from a C++ background, I assumed returning None (aka void) would
> suffice, but it looks like you need to return self (?)

You have methods of the form

 void operator+=(blah);

in C++?  That's, err, wrong.  (It's not how int's behave, for
example).
 
> class MyInt:
>     def __init__(self,value):
>         self.value = value
>     def __iadd__(self, other):
>         self.value = self.value + other.value
>         return None
> 
> f = MyInt(1)
> g = MyInt(2)
> f+=g
> 
> f is now None, not a MyInt with a value of 3 as I expected.
> 
> So that is fine, returning self in __iadd__ does the trick, but now all
> the C++ code I have wrappers for that return void do not work. 

Where do these wrappers come from?  Change them, or slap their author
into doing so.

> Does this appear broken to anybody else? Why do these operators need
> any return value? It would seem enough simply to set the object's
> internal state.

No, because executing

f += g

rebinds f, as all assignment does in Python.

> Even stranger is:
> x = 2
> x += 1
>  ...does not return anything but it works!?

Hmm.  What you return from the __iadd__ method is *not* the "result"
of the "expression"

f += g

because that is not an expression but rather a statement and
statements have no result (hence the quotation marks above).

To a certain degree of approximation

f += g

behaves as if it was written

f = f.__iadd__(g)

I hope this helps - certainly answering it has helped *me* understand
things better, even if it doesn't help you when you read it...

Cheers,
M.

-- 
  I love the way Microsoft follows standards.  In much the same manner
  that fish follow migrating caribou.                  -- Paul Tomblin
               -- http://home.xnet.com/~raven/Sysadmin/ASR.Quotes.html


From aahz at panix.com  Fri Jan  5 10:42:39 2001
From: aahz at panix.com (Aahz Maruch)
Date: 5 Jan 2001 07:42:39 -0800
Subject: How to think about Python's few controversies (was: Migrating to perl?)
References: <3Fa56.4580$of7.216286@news1.atl> <ggd56.4652$of7.222552@news1.atl> <slrn95atra.vm6.quinn@zloty.ugcs.caltech.edu> <2021AFB9F318BFB8.57ECE2FBE8BE9A50.59A8AF63203CCFD1@lp.airnews.net>
Message-ID: <934q1f$d61$1@panix2.panix.com>

In article <2021AFB9F318BFB8.57ECE2FBE8BE9A50.59A8AF63203CCFD1 at lp.airnews.net>,
Cameron Laird <claird at starbase.neosoft.com> wrote:
>
>    More generally, Python is quite clean.  It has
>    a few consistent syntactic controversies--signi-
>    ficant white space, (un)encapsulation, a few
>    perceived deficiencies in assignment and
>    looping--but the remarkable thing is that each
>    of these is, from all the evidence, more of an
>    issue for spectators than participants.  Python's
>    made the right choices.  It works well.  Even if,
>    say, significant white space discomforts you on
>    some abstract level, my prediction is that you'll
>    quickly come to like it once you try it.

I'll note that the whitespace issue still irritates me a bit when I'm
writing code.  But I don't whine about it because Python has the most
readable code I've ever seen, and I know the whitespace is part of the
reason for it.
-- 
                      --- Aahz (Copyright 2000 by aahz at pobox.com)

Androgynous poly kinky vanilla queer het    <*>     http://www.rahul.net/aahz/
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6

"This is Usenet.  We're all masturbating in public places."  -DH


From tim.one at home.com  Thu Jan 11 21:22:46 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 21:22:46 -0500
Subject: Speed of Python vs. Perl
In-Reply-To: <93lc4h$o1qco$1@fido.engr.sgi.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCKEBOIIAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Paul Jackson]
> I believe that it's actually more cpu bound, parsing the imports
> once it finds them, than it is disk bound, trying to stat or
> open them.

Unless you've got a broken installation, Python shouldn't be spending *any*
time parsing imported files at startup.  That's what .pyc files are for:  a
given module should be parsed only once in its entire lifetime.  Use the
"-v" switch to see whether you're importing files in .py or .pyc form; if
the former, you've got a platform bug somewhere (or perhaps have stored your
Python libraries in a non-writable directory, so that Python can't create
the .pyc forms).

> See further my more detailed analysis:
>
>     http://deja.com/getdoc.xp?AN=652983262
>     Subject: Re: How does Python compare to ?
>     Date: 07/31/2000
>     Author: Paul Jackson <pj at sgi.com>




From tdelaney at avaya.com  Sun Jan  7 22:27:08 2001
From: tdelaney at avaya.com (Delaney, Timothy)
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 14:27:08 +1100 
Subject: simple symbolic math in Python
Message-ID: <B43D149A9AB2D411971300B0D03D7E8B0FBD56@natasha.auslabs.avaya.com>

How about __coerce__ ? Would that enable you to do what you want?

Tim Delaney
Avaya Australia
+61 2 9352 9079

> -----Original Message-----
> From: kragen at dnaco.net [mailto:kragen at dnaco.net]
> Sent: Monday, 8 January 2001 1:32 PM
> To: python-list at python.org
> Subject: simple symbolic math in Python
> 
> 
> I posted most of this to kragen-hacks
> <kragen-hacks-subscribe at kragen.dnaco.net> late last millennium.
> 
> I'm running into a problem: I can overload unary minus, but I can't
> overload e.g. math.sin and math.cos, because they're not methods.  It
> would be really nice to have a way to do that.  I can create objects
> that act just like dictionaries or files, including working 
> with almost
> all of the built-in functions, but it doesn't look like I can create
> objects that look just like numbers.
> 
> I'm thinking about implementing promises (aka deferred references) as
> in E <http://www.erights.org/> as well; I'm still reading the E
> documentation.
> 
> I hope folks enjoy this.
> 
> # Kragen Sitaker, 2000-12-30.
> # Some simple symbolic math.
> # Allows you to add, subtract, etc., simple formulas -- using 
> the ordinary
> # Python operations.  Implements all of the standard 
> arithmetic operations.
> # Once you have a formula, you can print it out as a string, 
> evaluate it
> # for particular values of its variables, call 'simplified()' to get a
> # simplified version, check to see if it's exactly identical 
> to some other
> # formula, or (in some cases --- if you've used only +, -, and *, and
> # fixed exponents) take its symbolic derivative.  See the test()
> # routine at the end for details. Symbolic derivatives will generally
> # need to be simplified() to taste very good.
> 
> # Not intended for serious use; it's just a quick hack I 
> wrote this afternoon.
> 
> # Some things it might be fun to add:
> # - a compile() method that returns a Python code object that 
> would give you
> #   faster evaluation
> # - a continued-fraction output mode a la HAKMEM
> # - symbolic derivatives that cover more operations
> # - better simplifications ( ((x + x) + (2 * x)) should 
> simplify to (3 * x) )
> # - unary operations: negation, transcendentals
> # - better printing: a + b + c + d should print as a + b + c + d, not
> #   as (((a + b) + c) + d)
> # - other symbolic manipulations
> 
> import math
> 
> # things inherit from Formula to get the glue that turns Python
> # expressions into representations of expressions
> class Formula:
>     def __complex__(self): return complex(self.eval({}))
>     def __int__(self): return int(self.eval({}))
>     def __long__(self): return long(self.eval({}))
>     def __float__(self): return float(self.eval({}))
>     def __pos__(self): return self  # positive
>     def __neg__(self): return Unop('-', self)
>     def __add__(self, other): return Binop('+', self, other)
>     def __radd__(self, other): return Binop('+', other, self)
>     def __sub__(self, other): return Binop('-', self, other)
>     def __rsub__(self, other): return Binop('-', other, self)
>     def __mul__(self, other): return Binop('*', self, other)
>     def __rmul__(self, other): return Binop('*', other, self)
>     def __div__(self, other): return Binop('/', self, other)
>     def __rdiv__(self, other): return Binop('/', other, self)
>     def __pow__(self, other): return Binop('**', self, other)
>     def __rpow__(self, other): return Binop('**', other, self)
> 
>     # one out of place: syntactic sugar for 'eval'
>     # this lets me say f.where(x = 2) instead of f.eval({'x':2})
>     def where(self, **vars): return self.eval(vars)
> 
> def constant(expr):
>     return isinstance(expr, Constant)
> 
> # simplify an addition expression by dropping zeroes
> def simplify_add(a, b):
>     if a.identical(mkf(0)): return b
>     elif b.identical(mkf(0)): return a
>     # and this is the point at which we abandon pretenses of 
> OO correctness
>     elif isinstance(b, Unop) and b._op == '-':
>         return (a - b._arg).simplified()
>     else: return a + b
> 
> # simplify a multiplication expression by dropping ones and converting
> # 0 * anything to 0
> def simplify_multiply(a, b):
>     if a.identical(mkf(0)) or b.identical(mkf(0)): return mkf(0)
>     elif a.identical(mkf(1)): return b
>     elif b.identical(mkf(1)): return a
>     elif a.identical(mkf(-1)): return (-b).simplified()
>     elif b.identical(mkf(-1)): return (-a).simplified()
>     else: return a * b
> 
> def simplify_subtract(a, b):
>     if b.identical(mkf(0)): return a
>     elif isinstance(b, Unop) and b._op == '-':
>         return (a + b._arg).simplified()
>     else: return a - b
> 
> def simplify_power(a, b):
>     if b.identical(mkf(0)): return mkf(1)
>     elif b.identical(mkf(1)): return a
>     else: return a ** b
> 
> DerivativeError = "Can't differentiate"
> 
> def power_derivative(base, exp, var):
>     if not exp.derivative(var).simplified().identical(mkf(0)):
>         raise DerivativeError, ("too dumb for varying 
> exponent", exp, var)
>     return exp * base ** (exp - 1) * base.derivative(var)
> 
> # Binary operation class
> class Binop(Formula):
>     opmap = { '+': lambda a, b: a + b,
>               '*': lambda a, b: a * b,
>               '-': lambda a, b: a - b,
>               '/': lambda a, b: a / b,
>               '**': lambda a, b: a ** b }
>     def __init__(self, op, value1, value2):
>         self.op = op
>         self.values = mkf(value1), mkf(value2)
>     def __str__(self):
>         return "(%s %s %s)" % (self.values[0], self.op, 
> self.values[1])
>     def eval(self, env):
>         return self.opmap[self.op](self.values[0].eval(env),
>                                    self.values[1].eval(env))
>     # the partial derivative with respect to some variable 'var'
>     derivmap = { '+': lambda a, b, var: a.derivative(var) + 
> b.derivative(var),
>                  '-': lambda a, b, var: a.derivative(var) - 
> b.derivative(var),
>                  '*': lambda a, b, var: (a * b.derivative(var) +
>                                          b * a.derivative(var)),
>                  '**': power_derivative };
>     def derivative(self, var):
>         return self.derivmap[self.op](self.values[0], 
> self.values[1], var)
> 
>     # very basic simplifications
>     simplifymap = { '+': simplify_add,
>                     '*': simplify_multiply,
>                     '-': simplify_subtract,
>                     '**': simplify_power};
>     def simplified(self):
>         values = self.values[0].simplified(), 
> self.values[1].simplified()
>         if constant(values[0]) and constant(values[1]):
>             # this is kinda gross
>             return mkf(Binop(self.op, values[0], values[1]).eval({}))
>         elif self.simplifymap.has_key(self.op):
>             return self.simplifymap[self.op](values[0], values[1])
>         else:
>             return Binop(self.op, values[0], values[1])
> 
>     def identical(self, other):
>         return (isinstance(other, Binop) and other.op == self.op and
>                 other.values[0].identical(self.values[0]) and
>                 other.values[1].identical(self.values[1]))
> 
> class Unop(Formula):
>     opmap = { '-': lambda x: -x,
>               'sin': lambda x: math.sin(x),
>               'cos': lambda x: math.cos(x) }
>     def __init__(self, op, arg):
>         self._op = op
>         self._arg = mkf(arg)
>     def __str__(self):
>         return "%s(%s)" % (self._op, self._arg)
>     def eval(self, env):
>         return self.opmap[self._op](self._arg.eval(env))
>     # note that each of these entries implicitly contains the 
> chain rule;
>     # that's bad and should be fixed.
>     derivmap = { '-': lambda x, var: -x.derivative(var),
>                  'sin': lambda x, var: x.derivative(var) * cos(x),
>                  'cos': lambda x, var: -x.derivative(var) * sin(x) }
>     def derivative(self, var):
>         return self.derivmap[self._op](self._arg, var)
>     def identical(self, other):
>         return isinstance(other, Unop) and 
> self._arg.identical(other._arg)
>     def simplified(self):
>         simplearg = self._arg.simplified()
>         if constant(simplearg):
>             return mkf(Unop(self._op, simplearg).eval({}))
>         if (self._op == '-' and isinstance(simplearg, Unop) and
>             simplearg._op == '-'):
>             return simplearg._arg.simplified()
>         else: return Unop(self._op, simplearg)
> 
> def cos(f): return Unop('cos', f)
> def sin(f): return Unop('sin', f)
> 
> class Variable(Formula):
>     def __init__(self, name): self._name = name
>     def eval(self, environment): return environment[self._name]
>     def __str__(self): return self._name
>     def derivative(self, var):
>         if self._name == var._name: return mkf(1)
>         else: return mkf(0)
>     def identical(self, other):
>         return isinstance(other, Variable) and other._name == 
> self._name
>     def simplified(self): return self
> class Constant(Formula):
>     def __init__(self, value): self._value = value
>     def eval(self, env): return self._value
>     def __str__(self): return str(self._value)
>     def derivative(self, var): return mkf(0)
>     def identical(self, other):
>         return isinstance(other, Constant) and other._value 
> == self._value
>     def simplified(self): return self
> 
> # make formula
> def mkf(value):
>     if type(value) in (type(1), type(1L), type(1.5), type(1j)):
>         return Constant(value)
>     elif type(value) is type("hi"):
>         return Variable(value)
>     elif isinstance(value, Formula):
>         return value
>     else:
>         raise TypeError, ("Can't make formula from", value)
> 
> # syntactic sugar so you can say vars.foo instead of mkf('foo') or
> # Variable('foo')
> class Vars:
>     def __getattr__(self, name): return Variable(name)
> vars = Vars()
> 
> def test():
>     assert mkf(2365).eval({}) == 2365
>     one = mkf(1)
>     assert str(one) == '1'
>     assert one.eval({}) == 1
>     assert isinstance(one + one, Formula)
>     assert (one + one).eval({}) == 2
>     assert str(one + one) == '(1 + 1)'
>     x = vars.x
>     assert isinstance(x, Variable)
>     assert x.eval({'x': 37}) == 37
>     assert (one + x).eval({'x': 108}) == 109
>     assert str(one + x) == '(1 + x)'
>     got_error = 0
>     try:
>         x.eval({})
>     except KeyError:
>         got_error = 1
>     assert got_error
>     assert (1 + one).eval({}) == 2
>     assert (2 * mkf(3)).eval({}) == 6
>     assert (mkf(2) * 3).eval({}) == 6
>     assert (14 - one).eval({}) == 13
>     assert (one - 14).eval({}) == -13
>     assert int(one) == 1
>     seven = (14 / mkf(2))
>     assert isinstance(seven, Formula)
>     assert seven.eval({}) == 7
>     assert float(seven) == 7.0
>     assert int(+one) == 1
>     got_error = 0
>     try:
>         z = mkf(test)
>     except TypeError:
>         got_error = 1
>     assert got_error
>     two_to_the_x = (2 ** x)
>     assert str(two_to_the_x) == '(2 ** x)'
>     assert two_to_the_x.eval({'x': 20}) == 1048576
>     assert two_to_the_x.where(x=20) == 1048576
>     assert (x ** 2).eval({'x': 13}) == 169
>     formula = (x + 1)/((x * x) - +two_to_the_x)
>     assert str(formula) == '((x + 1) / ((x * x) - (2 ** 
> x)))', str(formula)
>     assert (x / 1).eval({'x': 36}) == 36
>     assert long(one) == 1L
>     assert complex(one) == 1+0j
>     i = mkf(1j)
>     assert complex(i) == 1j
> 
>     y = vars.y
>     minusx = -x
>     assert minusx.where(x = 5) == -5
>     assert (-minusx).simplified().identical(x)
>     assert str(minusx) == '-(x)'
>     assert not minusx.identical(x)
>     assert minusx.identical(-x)
>     assert not minusx.identical(-y)
> 
>     cosx = cos(x)
>     assert cosx.where(x = 0) == 1
>     assert cosx.where(x = 1) != 1
> 
>     assert x.derivative(x).simplified().identical(mkf(1))
>     assert x.derivative(y).simplified().identical(mkf(0))
>     assert (x * y).derivative(x).simplified().identical(y)
>     assert (x + y).derivative(x).simplified().identical(mkf(1))
>     assert (x - y).derivative(x).simplified().identical(mkf(1))
>     assert two_to_the_x.simplified().identical(two_to_the_x)
>     assert (2 * x).derivative(x).simplified().identical(mkf(2))
> 
>     assert (x ** 0).simplified().identical(mkf(1))
>     assert (x ** 1).simplified().identical(x)
>     assert (x ** 2).derivative(x).simplified().identical(2 * x)
>     assert minusx.derivative(x).simplified().eval({}) == -1
>     assert cosx.derivative(x).where(x = 0) == 0
>     assert (-1 * x).simplified().identical(-x)
>     assert (x * -1).simplified().identical(-x)
>     assert (mkf(2) * 3 * 4).simplified().identical(mkf(24))
>     assert (-mkf(1)).simplified().identical(mkf(-1))
>     assert (-(1 * cos(x))).simplified().identical(-cos(x))
>     sinx = sin(x)
>     assert (-(-(mkf(1)) * sinx)).simplified().identical(sinx)
>     one = mkf(1)
>     assert (-one * (one * (-one * x))).simplified().identical(x)
>     assert (1 - -x).simplified().identical(1 + x)
>     assert (1 - - - -x).simplified().identical(1 + x)
>     
> test()
> -- 
> <kragen at pobox.com>       Kragen Sitaker     
> <http://www.pobox.com/~kragen/>
> Perilous to all of us are the devices of an art deeper than we possess
> ourselves.
>        -- Gandalf the White [J.R.R. Tolkien, "The Two 
> Towers", Bk 3, Ch. XI]
> -- 
> http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Mon Jan  8 11:33:01 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 17:33:01 +0100
Subject: embedding python in C++
References: <934r1a$pda$1@troll.powertech.no> <93a3lp01kpg@news1.newsguy.com> <93b02a$tr8$1@troll.powertech.no>
Message-ID: <93cq6n0186t@news1.newsguy.com>

"Syver Enstad" <syver at NOSPAMcyberwatcher.com> wrote in message
news:93b02a$tr8$1 at troll.powertech.no...
>
> "Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:93a3lp01kpg at news1.newsguy.com...
>
> > For "grabbing the output", I assume you mean getting characters that the
> > script is emitting to standard-output.
>
> Yep, that's it.

That's what one normally wants to do, which is how I guessed:-).


> > For that, it's somewhat simpler to do
> > the 'output capture' in Python, with a StringIO object, then call its
> > getvalue method to get the contents as a string.
>
> Thank you very much, Alex. I had managed to solve the problem myself, but
> your solution involves massively less code. Very helpful. (I made a Python
> type in C++ and instantiated that in the python code, redirected
sys.stdout
> to it and got hold of the object and called it from C++ to get the string
> after casting it to the C++ type, this is much easier.)

You could do it all in C++ without real pain -- whence, the 'somewhat' in
my sentence above, rather than 'massively':-): instantiating the Python
type C++ object (which need only implement a 'write' method, and let
'softspace' be set & gotten from Python) in C++, and using, again from C++,
PyObject_SetAttrString to set it directly as the 'stdout' attribute of
the sys module.  But even if it's just 20/30 more lines, you get no real
extra value from it (...unless you need to catch output *as it's happening*,
e.g. to show it on some GUI...!), so, on the basis of "do the simplest
thing that can possibly work", it's probably best avoided anyway.

Another principle (a corollary of the main one) being, of course, "as little
C++ as you can possibly get away with":-).


> I am just playing around with extending/embedding Python to learn how to
> interface C++ to Python and vice versa. As a suitable/interesting (to me
> that is) project I choose to see how difficult it would be to make an
isapi
> extension (IIS) that processes url's that point to py files. If I could
make
> the ISAPI extension so that it could use cgi scripts written in python
> without modification it would be neat.

I'm only moderately familiar with IIS (I've written ASP's, but made no
other real use of ISAPI, in other words), so I can't be of much direct
help.  Personally, I currently use the Boost Python Library (BPL), at
www.boost.org, for all C++/Python work that I don't do through COM (with
the sole exception of what I need to do in C for general acceptance:-).


> I think my biggest problem is the multithreading and how that would affect
> the interpreter. For the extension to work it is vital that each thread
has
> it's "own interpreter" so that code from the different threads aren't
mixed
> with each other. I have another posting that concerns this issue but I am
> not sure if my requirements mandates using the Py_NewInterpreter function.

Sorry, can't help you here, either.  If I _was_ in a threading-is-crucial,
Win32-only situation, I'd be *certain* to use ActiveScripting, which
*ensures* I can instantiate just as many interpreters as I need (and they
_shouldn't_ thread on each other toes -- though I have NOT had occasion
to test this... as threading is another of those "the least I can possibly
get away with" complications, in my worldview:-).


Very interest project, anyway -- best of luck!

Alex





From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Mon Jan 29 09:44:06 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 15:44:06 +0100
Subject: SIGs
References: <3A72C8A3.C4B4D69A@stroeder.com> <slrn97650f.i1.amk@mira.erols.com> <3A731F26.15461A27@stroeder.com> <slrn978o29.gn.amk@mira.erols.com> <951p9a0mn@news2.newsguy.com> <3A74A3C6.4000105@hccnet.nl>
Message-ID: <953vjn0112q@news2.newsguy.com>

"Jaap Spies" <j.spies at hccnet.nl> wrote in message
news:3A74A3C6.4000105 at hccnet.nl...
> Alex Martelli wrote:
    [snip]
> > Which reminds me -- is it just me, or does the page at
> > http://www.python.org/sigs/ REALLY state that EVERY
> > Python SIG has expired except catalog-sig (with 5 more
    [snip]
> No. Edu-sig is active!

Then the sigs page should be updated, since it lists edu-sig
as expired in Dec 2000 (about one month ago), as it does for
several others.


Alex





From rrdn60 at email.sps.mot.com  Fri Jan  5 11:03:55 2001
From: rrdn60 at email.sps.mot.com (Norman Shelley (rrdn60))
Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 09:03:55 -0700
Subject: why no "do : until"?
References: <mailman.978660367.22251.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3A55F06B.72718C5F@email.sps.mot.com>

So what has kept this proposal from seeing the light of day?
It appears from your description that this would provide a nice speed increase.

BTW, have you ever looked at fscript?
http://csam.sps.mot.com/
http://www.fscript.org./news.htm
http://www.fscript.org./HighLevelOOP.pdf

It appears to nicely marry Relational (its nice method of arbitrary queries
without the OO nastiness of traversing) with OO.
It would seem that Numeric.py might be a close starting point to
designing/implementing Fscript's ideas in Python.


Tim Peters wrote:
...

> My own years-old suggestion for a "for" enhancement is the "indexing"
> proposal, an optional clause on "for":
>
>     for i indexing a:
>     for i indexing x in a:
>
> A study I did at the time said that about 15% of all "for" loops in Python
> code were of the form
>
>     for i in range(len(a)):
>
> and that's both an obscure and inefficient way to spell the underlying idea.
> As an implementer, it also repels me <0.6 wink>:  Python *always* constructs
> an integer index under the covers, and what "for i in range(len(a))" really
> does is build a list of the integers 0, 1, 2, ..., len(a)-1; then the for
> loop mechanism generates the same integers one at a time all by itself; and
> then it passes each in turn to list.__getitem__(), all in order to get back
> the same integers it passes!  One of the Missing Pythonic Theses is "where
> the implementation is absurd, Guido was too Spartan" <wink>.
>
> it's-enough-that-"while-1"-keeps-testing-the-truth-of-"1"-ly y'rs
>     - tim




From pearu at cens.ioc.ee  Tue Jan  2 18:39:18 2001
From: pearu at cens.ioc.ee (Pearu Peterson)
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2001 01:39:18 +0200
Subject: sre \Z bug or feature?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.978471362.21599.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.978471362.21599.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10101030128460.4630-100000@kev.ioc.ee>


On Tue, 2 Jan 2001, Tim Peters wrote:

> [Pearu Peterson]
> 
> > So, do you think that the pattern I use is somehow invalid or
> > inefficient?
> 
> It's at least confusing <wink>.  Note that \A doesn't accomplish anything,
<snip>

Thanks for your explanation! It was certainly very useful for me as I am
not familiar with the theory that is behind the re module, which also 
explains why I used inefficient constructs here.

> That leaves me with
<snip>

And thanks for your suggestion! I'll use it.

Pearu



From slhath at flash.net  Tue Jan 16 10:24:01 2001
From: slhath at flash.net (scott hathaway)
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 15:24:01 GMT
Subject: question on python and SOAP
Message-ID: <lIZ86.6805$J%.689003@news.flash.net>

Hello,

I notice that there are at least two python soap libraries.  Scarab and the
one from PythonLabs.  Can anyone give me advantages/disadvantages of both?
I am wondering which one to use for an implementation.

Thanks,
Scott Hathaway




From hughett at mercur.uphs.upenn.edu  Sat Jan 20 14:12:21 2001
From: hughett at mercur.uphs.upenn.edu (Paul Hughett)
Date: 20 Jan 2001 19:12:21 GMT
Subject: Can Python clear a DOS screen?
References: <mailman.979855434.16210.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <94cnul$m4u$1@netnews.upenn.edu>

Rolander, Dan <Dan.Rolander at marriott.com> wrote:
: I've got a Python script that writes to a DOS console. Is it possible to
: have the script clear the screen?

It's been about 10 years since I've done this, and it wasn't in Python,
so you will have to work out the details yourself.

If you load the ANSI.SYS module, then the console will interpret most
of the ANSI escape sequences for modifying the screen.  Among these is
an escape sequence for clearing the screen.

Paul Hughett



From fabrice.n at home.com  Fri Jan 26 12:09:35 2001
From: fabrice.n at home.com (shaka)
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 17:09:35 GMT
Subject: New way to learn Python?
References: <94riuv$bqr$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <jbic6.249653$59.62510512@news3.rdc1.on.home.com>

hi

<jqcordova at my-deja.com> wrote in message news:94riuv$bqr$1 at nnrp1.deja.com...
> Spent last couple of years building well-known e-commerce sites using
> Open Source code. Used Perl, Python,Tcl/Tk, & Java and had to teach jr.
> programmers a lot about how to program in these languages. Found out
> most effective way was the so-called Socratic method of
> question/answer. So, put together a website  www.codecity.com
> to explore this approach to teaching Open Source. Hope to get some
> feedback/participation from this group especially in contributing
> Python quizzes. Hope this is appropriate.
>
> Jeff C.
> www.codecity.com
>
>
> Sent via Deja.com
> http://www.deja.com/




From scarblac at pino.selwerd.nl  Thu Jan 11 09:34:02 2001
From: scarblac at pino.selwerd.nl (Remco Gerlich)
Date: 11 Jan 2001 14:34:02 GMT
Subject: is Python fully object oriented ?
References: <20010110184830.13286.00000826@ng-fg1.aol.com> <93iuqb$rn9$1@panix3.panix.com> <mailman.979178411.3072.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrn95rgrl.838.scarblac@pino.selwerd.nl>

D-Man <dsh8290 at rit.edu> wrote in comp.lang.python:
> On Wed, Jan 10, 2001 at 04:30:03PM -0800, Aahz Maruch wrote:
> | In article <20010110184830.13286.00000826 at ng-fg1.aol.com>,
> | Crutoy <crutoy at aol.com> wrote:
> | >
> | >Hi , i haven't used Python but i do have experience in other languages vb ,
> | >java , c++ . Is Python a fully object oriented ? Thanks
> | 
> | Python is fully object oriented if you consider Java and C++ to be fully
> | object oriented.  If you don't consider those two fully object oriented,
> | you may not consider Python to be fully object oriented.
> 
> Python also support free-standing functions, similar to C++.

But those functions are objects :)

Aahz' point was that (I think) that there is no good definition of
"fully object oriented", and that those definitions that do exist would
probably exclude Java and C++, even though many people think those are OO.

Who cares.

-- 
Remco Gerlich


From moshez at zadka.site.co.il  Sat Jan 20 21:26:04 2001
From: moshez at zadka.site.co.il (Moshe Zadka)
Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 04:26:04 +0200 (IST)
Subject: How well do *you* know the Python source?
Message-ID: <20010121022604.4E27FA83E@darjeeling.zadka.site.co.il>

If you're interested in finding out, I've hacked a hangman
game which uses the symbols from a fairly recent CVS version
as words.

Find it in http://moshez.org/hangman.py.gz

-- 
Moshe Zadka <sig at zadka.site.co.il>
This is a signature anti-virus. 
Please stop the spread of signature viruses!
Fingerprint: 4BD1 7705 EEC0 260A 7F21  4817 C7FC A636 46D0 1BD6



From grante at visi.com  Wed Jan 10 14:44:00 2001
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 19:44:00 GMT
Subject: Canvas item class
References: <3A5C3CF4.2C5B6032@et.dtu.dk>
Message-ID: <4Y276.5$Kl.2001@ruti.visi.com>

In article <3A5C3CF4.2C5B6032 at et.dtu.dk>, Brian Elmegaard wrote:

>I am trying to (find out how to) make an application for making
>flowsheets of energy plants and exporting the relevant data to
>simulators. I primarily consider tk(inter)for the GUI.
>
>The flowsheet will consist of schematic drawings of different devices.
>These may need to be made out of more than one canvas item. Furthermore,
>the components should also keep tracks of different parameters for the
>device.
>
>So, what I would like to have is a component class inheriting the
>methods of a generic canvas item and be able to configure this to my
>needs and then draw them as wanted. However, reading 'An introduction to
>tkinter' it seems to me that canvas items are not like other tkinter
>objects, so I am not sure that it can be done this way. Am I off-track? 

Canvas items (e.g. lines, curves, text-strings, etc.) are not
objects (in the Python sense).  They are part of the internal
state of the canvas object.  You can use "tags" to group canvas
items into "pseudo-objects" that can then be manipulated using
the canvas methods.

As part of my masters project I wrote a ladder-diagram editor
in Scheme using the Tk canvas. I suspect you will need to to
similar things: there are various types of compound objects,
each of which has one or more paramters.  The user places the
objects on the canvas, edits the parameters, and connectes them
together with "wires".

If you'd like to see how this is done, there are links down at
the bottom of my web page: www.visi.com/~grante

Some day I'll translate the diagram editor from Scheme to
Python...

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  Are you still
                                  at               SEXUALLY ACTIVE? Did you
                               visi.com            BRING th' REINFORCEMENTS?


From gradha at iname.com  Mon Jan  8 16:32:02 2001
From: gradha at iname.com (gradha at iname.com)
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 22:32:02 +0100
Subject: How do I print useful errors with getopt?
References: <d8f939.roa.ln@127.0.0.1> <mailman.978978311.21259.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ikbd39.app.ln@127.0.0.1>

> On Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 11:09:17AM +0100, gradha at iname.com wrote:
>> but how can I print to the user what triggered the error?
Trent Mick <trentm at activestate.com> wrote:
> Here is what I do:
> ...
>     except getopt.GetoptError, msg:
>         sys.stderr.write("error in options: %s\n" % msg)
> ...

Oh, nice. I have obviously not read the tutorials enough times :)

-- 

 Grzegorz Adam Hankiewicz   gradha at iname.com - http://gradha.infierno.org
 Other web pages:  http://glub.ehu.es/  -  http://welcome.to/gogosoftware/


From ngps at madcap.dyndns.org  Thu Jan 18 10:16:39 2001
From: ngps at madcap.dyndns.org (Ng Pheng Siong)
Date: 18 Jan 2001 15:16:39 GMT
Subject: Calling Java Code from CPython (1.5.2 or 2.0)
References: <93mdfs$g7q$1@nyheter.chalmers.se> <k1e2i3t4h5r6a7y-D29C0F.20044016012001@news>
Message-ID: <9471cn$smc$1@violet.singnet.com.sg>

According to Keith Ray  <k1e2i3t4h5r6a7y at 1m2a3c4.5c6o7m>:
> I could also imagine a CPython module using JNI functions and Java 
> reflection to do a more general-purpose bridge for python. Create python 
> objects that are bridges to java objects. Forwarding python method calls 
> to the java objects, converting basic CPython types into Java 
> equivalents for argument passing...

Take a look at Inter-Language Unification (ILU):

    ftp://ftp.parc.xerox.com/pub/ilu/ilu.html


-- 
Ng Pheng Siong <ngps at post1.com> * http://www.post1.com/home/ngps



From joejava at dragonat.net  Sat Jan  6 18:50:53 2001
From: joejava at dragonat.net (Joel Ricker)
Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2001 18:50:53 -0500
Subject: Migrating to perl?
References: <3Fa56.4580$of7.216286@news1.atl> <3A571A63.7B2022AF@python.net>
Message-ID: <YdO56.2379$4Z.127362@news2.atl>

Thomas A. Bryan wrote in message <3A571A63.7B2022AF at python.net>...

>I've also heard very good things about Ruby.  You may want to evaluate
>both Python and Ruby if you're looking for an alternative to Perl but
>don't know any Python yet.


Ruby was also something that intrigued me. There was an article in Dr. Dobbs
about Ruby and it looks intresting.  I may still get into it later but right
now I was looking for something that my web host supports as a CGI language.

Joel





From tim.one at home.com  Fri Jan  5 03:42:29 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 03:42:29 -0500
Subject: Newbie Question - Hex to floating point conversion
In-Reply-To: <peua5tc7a6195psc05umrl16r0jt05gg85@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCEENPIGAA.tim.one@home.com>

[sb]
> Is there an easy way to convert 4 byte floating point numbers in IEEE
> format to they're decimal equivalents?
>
> EX.: BF 00 00 00 =  -0.5

Not really, but if you're running on IEEE-754 hardware and your native C
compiler maps "float" to 4-byte IEEE-754 floats, you can build (or read from
file, or ...) a 4-byte string containing those bytes and ask Python's std
struct module (see the docs) to interpret it as a C float (use struct's "f"
format code).

For example, here on a WinTel box:

>>> struct.unpack(">f", "\xbf\0\0\0")
(-0.5,)
>>>

The ">" in the format string forces unpack to treat the bytes as a
big-endian stream; without that, struct uses the native platform convention,
which on WinTel happens to be little-endian:

>>> struct.unpack("f", "\xbf\0\0\0")
(2.6764800668604006e-043,)
>>>

A denormal probably isn't what you expected -- so if you see stuff like that
happening, remember that you were warned about the cause <wink>.




From n8gray at caltech.NIXTHISedu  Fri Jan 19 20:04:51 2001
From: n8gray at caltech.NIXTHISedu (Nathaniel Gray)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 17:04:51 -0800
Subject: PSU uses emacs?
References: <948e4b$hm0$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <948eq4$ce4db$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <3A68E433.D5D232AE@caltech.NIXTHISedu>

vi:  	Too archaic
emacs: 	Too arcane

NEdit:  Aaah.  Just right.

http://www.nedit.org/

-n8

-- 
Nathaniel Gray

California Institute of Technology
Computation and Neural Systems
--


From sheila at spamcop.net  Sat Jan 27 20:42:06 2001
From: sheila at spamcop.net (Sheila King)
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 01:42:06 GMT
Subject: [Off topic] allowed to put Python material on the Web?
References: <mailman.980634213.15110.python-list@python.org> <t76rcujhrg4aa0@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <g5u67tsp6qvbuqf8glutb44bbpvbk97cg0@4ax.com>

On Sat, 27 Jan 2001 19:57:31 -0500, "Jason Cunliffe" <jasonic at nomadicsltd.com>
wrote in comp.lang.python in article <t76rcujhrg4aa0 at corp.supernews.com>:

:
:For any of the above, what happens when one switches medium, for example to
:publish a book? Do newsgroup posts and or e-mails demand news permissions?

I would say, you definitely need to get author's permissions before publishing
in a book. I'm not a lawyer, but I would be plenty ticked off if someone were
selling my advice, examples and code without asking my permission! (And I
might reasonably deny it. Depends on the code, of course.)

--
Sheila King
http://www.thinkspot.net/sheila/
http://www.k12groups.org/



From danielk at aracnet.com  Fri Jan 19 09:34:16 2001
From: danielk at aracnet.com (Daniel Klein)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 06:34:16 -0800
Subject: importing classes from a variable
References: <t6f17dps6c4d87@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <8ujg6t469ju4rirrh4dhci7a35fus4tfg7@4ax.com>

On Thu, 18 Jan 2001 16:02:41 -0800, "JustinHJ" <justinhj at hotmail.com> wrote:

>Could anyone offer any advice on the following problem. What I have is a
>python program that takes a file and does something to it by calling member
>functions in a class. To seperate the code that does the export from the
>main program, what I wanted to do is to be able to go from a text string
>name of the export process....

I think what you are looking for is the __builtin__.__import__()  function, but
since I am relatively new with Python, I hope I didn't screw up and give you
the wrong answer. 

Daniel Klein


From tim.one at home.com  Sat Jan 27 05:09:52 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 05:09:52 -0500
Subject: Hack request: rational numbers
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0101261251120.7303-100000@kev.ioc.ee>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCAEKFILAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Pearu Peterson and Michael Hudson, exchange exruciating ideas for
 making Python treat 3/4 as a rational, or add new 3r/4, r3/4, 3/4r
 literal synax]

[Pearu]
> 3) What are changes that these hooks will be accepted to Python core?

[Michael]
> Can't speak for the people whose opinions really count, but my
> guess: none.

You're learning to channel Guido!  It's giving me hope that I can retire
someday <wink>.

[Pearu]
> It is rather disappointing estimation:(
>
> And it makes me think that (some? most?) people want to keep
> Python usage only in web/gui based applications rather than
> extending its usage to scientific computing (both *numerical*
> and *symbolical*).

Sorry, but that's exactly like thinking people want to prevent Python from
supporting business applications because it doesn't have

    $3.45

literals (along with 179 other national currency notations); and want to
prevent Python from supporting surveyors because it doesn't support a
literal notation for angles in units of grads; etc.

But note that Python doesn't support any notations especially warped toward
web or GUI programming, either.  Keyword arguments were added to Python
primarily to ease writing Tkinter apps, so that's a case where GUI
programming inspired a *generally* useful language addition.  I can't say
that the ellipsis object added for the NumPy folks has provided similarly
broad benefits.

It's safe to say that Guido isn't likely to add more language gimmicks of
use to only one domain, even if it's a domain he loves.  It's a
general-purpose programming language, after all.

Note too that Macsyma faced a similar (but worse) dilemma, trying to dream
up some way to make symbolic computation comfortable to mathematicians in a
Lisp system.  They did an obvious thing:  invented a brand new notation
warped toward their audience, and wrote a little compiler to convert it to
Lisp.  Probably good for beginners, but the deeper you got into it the more
you had to learn Lisp anyway.

That said, I believe your only hope of getting new literal syntax is to
embed it in a general proposal.  Some notation for rational literals is just
one of an unbounded number of similar desires.  Without a general scheme for
extending literal notations, there's also no hope of getting anyone to
update all the tools that parse Python either (thinking here of things like
tokenize.py, IDLE, pyclbr.py, the Emacs python-mode, etc -- not to mention
Jython).  The costs of adding new syntax are just too high unless it
benefits *all* users.

excluding-those-who-don't-like-anything-new-ever-ly y'rs  - tim




From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Thu Jan  4 12:01:29 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 18:01:29 +0100
Subject: How to send cookies
References: <newscache$ylbn6g$ss1$1@news.cesatel.es>
Message-ID: <932ab206uv@news2.newsguy.com>

"David L?pez" <dlopezp at norsistemas.es> wrote in message
news:newscache$ylbn6g$ss1$1 at news.cesatel.es...
> Hello.
>
> My question is about cookies. I don?t know how to send or receive cookies
in
> Python. Could someone give me a explained example?

The Cookie standard module of the Python libraries, documented at
11.17.3 in the Python Library Reference, has a long example without
all that much explanation -- just an interactive session showing
what 'Set-Cookie:' headers you can expect from a 'smart cookie',
and how you use the .load method of a smart cookie object to get
it (usable as a Python dictionary) back from the HTTP header
strings.  Smart-Cookies are a security exposure, as the docs
tell you right at 11.17.2, so sticking with SimpleCookie's may
be best anyway, even though they limit you to string keys/values.

It's a bit hard to know where to start explaining from, not being
familiar with what you know about cookies, and HTTP, in general -- do
you know RFC 2109 by heart, and just need help seeing how cookies
are set and retrieved _in Python_ specifically; or, at the other
extreme, are you totally unfamiliar with these issues, and need
a very basic tutorial...?

Assuming the latter... your interest in cookies will typically
be in a CGI script.  If a cookie for you was set, you will find
its string in the HTTP_COOKIE environment variable, which you
can access (after an 'import os' statement in your script, of
course) as os.environ['HTTP_COOKIE'] if it's set.

So, early in your script, you will typically have:

import cgi
import os
import Cookie

cookie = Cookie.SimpleCookie()
if os.environ.has_key('HTTP_COOKIE'):
    # some cookie for us, let's read it
    cookie.load(os.environ['HTTP_COOKIE'])
else:
    # no cookie for us, let's fake it
    # possibly setting default-values
    cookie['color']='red'

Now, you proceed with the rest of your CGI processing -- just
*don't* terminate the headers (to start doing other output)
before you determine if you need to send back a set-cookie,
since THAT one goes in the headers too!  If you have suitably
modified the above-created cookie, and want to send it back,
then your script's header-output portion may be, e.g.:

    print "Content-type: text/html"
    print cookie
    print

then, the rest of your output.  Next time this client visits
you (if it has cookies enabled, only), your cookie will get
restored to what you're now setting (strings only, being a
SimpleCookie; but that IS normally what you want).

Is that what you needed to know...?


Alex





From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Thu Jan 25 07:12:06 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 13:12:06 +0100
Subject: Count and replacing strings a texfile
References: <94i9ft$apq$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <94llph$8dl$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <94mans01r5p@news2.newsguy.com> <94nc43$n0g$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <94p56k022uc@news2.newsguy.com>

"Greg Jorgensen" <gregj at pobox.com> wrote in message
news:94nc43$n0g$1 at nnrp1.deja.com...
    [snip]
> > In general, building a big string by successive + or
> > += of many small pieces is O(N squared).
>
> I follow the K&R maxim to keep it simple, make it work first, and if
> it's too slow, speed up the slow parts. If this is a one-off

It's a good maxim, but collecting the pieces in a list
and joining them up at the end is no harder than joining
them up as you go, e.g.:

def joinPieces(nextPieceFun):
    result = ''
    while 1:
        piece = nextPiece()
        if not piece: break
        result += piece
    return result

vs

def joinPieces(nextPieceFun):
    result = []
    while 1:
        piece = nextPiece()
        if not piece: break
        result.append(piece)
    return ''.join(result)

Given that the complexity is just about identical between
the two possibilities, why not just get used to the
second form -- the first one just has no added value!

> that bit if necessary. Pre-allocating the result string is probably the
> best and easiest optimization. In this case the maximum size of the

Definitely not 'easiest' in Python, with its immutable
strings.  You'd have to allocate an array of characters,
and keep track of where the next piece goes, as well as
putting the piece in the right place char by char; a LOT
of trouble, code much larger, and performance benefits
quite uncertain.  Pre-allocating the *list* of pieces,
and setting its i-th element, rather than starting with
it empty and appending to it, _is_ often quite easy, if
you know in advance how many pieces you have.  But you
can't really beat ''.join with 'pre-allocated result
strings' in Python.


Alex





From moshez at zadka.site.co.il  Fri Jan  5 20:30:01 2001
From: moshez at zadka.site.co.il (Moshe Zadka)
Date: Sat,  6 Jan 2001 03:30:01 +0200 (IST)
Subject: 2001 Enchancement Wishlist
In-Reply-To: <011001c07726$5ced6be0$102b2bc1@cadlab.it>
References: <011001c07726$5ced6be0$102b2bc1@cadlab.it>, <3A4CEACB.220998A0@javanet.com> <Ro736.2511$Qb7.273102@newsb.telia.net> <92j83r13gh@news1.newsguy.com> <20001231175940.A5435@xs4all.nl> <008301c07501$c036ae40$43931497@martelli> <20010104165116.F2467@xs4all.nl> <008601c07675$0adf2020$102b2bc1@cadlab.it> <20010104203232.P402@xs4all.nl> <006801c0769b$ac0cc3a0$9d8a1a97@martelli> <20010105110459.Q402@xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <20010106013001.17FB7A84F@darjeeling.zadka.site.co.il>

I've made it a point to stay out of this thread. However, 
one small point.

On Fri, 5 Jan 2001, "Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Recognizing (e.g.) a "def __setattr__" at module-level as providing
> a similar function to a similarly-named method in a class instance
> would (in my opinion) not 'complicate' the Python language: it would
> just extend an already-existing concept 

For the record, I'm heavily +1 on the concept. Sadly it's sure
not to make it to 2.1, as the PEP deadline is due. But you can
write a PEP which will be considered for 2.2.

-- 
Moshe Zadka <sig at zadka.site.co.il>
This is a signature anti-virus. 
Please stop the spread of signature viruses!



From root at rainerdeyke.com  Sat Jan 27 10:53:06 2001
From: root at rainerdeyke.com (Rainer Deyke)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 15:53:06 GMT
Subject: . Python 2.1 function attributes
References: <mailman.980575232.12720.python-list@python.org> <Pine.GSO.4.21.0101270135190.7677-100000@y.glue.umd.edu>
Message-ID: <C9Cc6.123108$ge4.43303339@news2.rdc2.tx.home.com>

"Roy Katz" <katz at Glue.umd.edu> wrote in message
news:Pine.GSO.4.21.0101270135190.7677-100000 at y.glue.umd.edu...
> class G:
>     attr = 0
>     def __call__(self): pass
>
> g = G() long
>
> ---VERSUS---
>
> def f():
>   { 'attr':0 }
>   pass

Syntax sugar for singletons could chop another line from the class-based
idiom:


singleton g:
  attr = 0
  def __call__(): pass


--
Rainer Deyke (root at rainerdeyke.com)
Shareware computer games           -           http://rainerdeyke.com
"In ihren Reihen zu stehen heisst unter Feinden zu kaempfen" - Abigor




From gregj at pobox.com  Sun Jan 21 23:53:59 2001
From: gregj at pobox.com (Greg Jorgensen)
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 04:53:59 GMT
Subject: creating variable names by adding 2 strings?
References: <3A6BAA32.370A2C00@ntlworld.com>
Message-ID: <94ged6$o9t$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

An array or list is the usual way to do what you describe, but if you
really want to create a bunch of new variable names, you can use exec:

  exec('p' + str(p) + '="' + \
      string.replace(component[control], ",", "") + '"')

exec() executes a string containing any Python code, in the namespace
of the calling code. To debug this you may want to create a string
first, then execute the string; that way you can print the string
during testing.

--
Greg Jorgensen
Portland, Oregon, USA
gregj at pobox.com


In article <3A6BAA32.370A2C00 at ntlworld.com>,
  lee.reilly at ntlworld.com wrote:
> Hi there,
>
> This is my first post here. I've got a problem, which I can find any
> solutions for using my books or docs on the WWW. I would really
> appreciate it if someone could tell me whether the following is
> possible...
>
> I'm creating variables in but I am having trouble creating them when
> they're *named* using other variables. Here's an example;
>
> while (p!=0):
>         p+`p`= string.replace(component[control], ",", "")
>         # e.g. I want 'p1 = string.replace.blah...'
>         p=p-1
>         control=control+1
>
> ==> SyntaxError: can't assign to operator :(
>
> I've tried various things but I cannot find a solution. I've got a
nasty
> feeling that it's not possible...
>
> If someone could confirm this or hopefully, tell me how to do it I
would
> be_extremely_grateful.
>
> Thanks.
>
> - Best regards,
>
> Lee
>
> --
> Lee Reilly
> mailto:lee.reilly at ntlworld.com
>
> ????`????,,,,????`????,,,,????`????,,,,????`????,,,,
>
> HAVE SKILLS; WILL TRAVEL.
>
> I'm currently looking for an internship in the USA
> in the field of web development. Ideally, I'm looking
> for a placement for 3 to 18 months. Can you help?
>
> More details, my resume, etc. @
> http://homepages.strath.ac.uk/~aeu97172/
>
> </shameless plug>
>
>


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From noahspurrier at my-deja.com  Wed Jan 10 13:57:58 2001
From: noahspurrier at my-deja.com (noahspurrier at my-deja.com)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 18:57:58 GMT
Subject: Weird ftplib problem
References: <3A5B3E31.EC9FE6A6@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <93ibbe$9ca$1@nnrp1.deja.com>


I tested this and it works on Solaris 2.6 with Python 1.6
and on Windows 2000 with Python 2.0. Try your script on another
system and see what happens.

What version of Windows are you using? What version of Python?
I assume version 1.52 or earlier because I can find the lines of
source that your error mentions in lib/ftplib.py. This may also
be a configuration problem. I assume that 'python' is
in your path, yes? That is the only environment variable that
you need for the standard libraries. ... I rarely have
configuration problems with Python.

Yours,
Noah Spurrier

In article <3A5B3E31.EC9FE6A6 at hotmail.com>,
  Joonas <keisari_ at hotmail.com> wrote:
> I am using ftplib to transfer a file into a server.
>
> When I run it in IDLE it works fine but when I run it from command
line
> by typing 'python ftp.py' it gives the following error message.
>
> Traceback (innermost last):
>   File "ftp.py" line 2, in ?
>     siirto = FTP('ftp.saunalahti.fi')
>   File ".\lib\ftplib.py", line 87, in __init__
>     self.connect(host)
>   File ".\lib\ftplib.py", line 98, in connect
>     self.file = self.sock.makefile('r')
> _socket.error: No makefile() function has been installed

> What could be wrong?
>
> Joonas.
>


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From volker.jahns at web.de  Mon Jan 29 09:35:02 2001
From: volker.jahns at web.de (Volker Jahns)
Date: 29 Jan 2001 16:35:02 +0200
Subject: Books
References: <3a757ac1$1@netnews.web.de> <hhfd6.6061$Uo2.20161@newsfeed.slurp.net> <3a757f33$1@netnews.web.de> <mailman.980781035.27107.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3a758a80@netnews.web.de>

Hi,


>> Thanks, but the pyhton.org should lern PHP... .-)
>> 
>> Warning: fopen("counter.txt","w") - ???? ?????? in 
>> /usr/local/apache/htdocs/pyhton/index.php on line 28
>
>I guess PHP is much easier to use, since it has only three letters... ;-)


... now, it works... :-)


What is the benefit using pyhton instead of PHP or JAVA (serversided)? It makes 
we wonder, that the python.org uses php for dynamic web pages. So am I on the 
wrong way using python for  dynamic web pages with database access (mysql, 
postgress,...)?


Volker
-- 
_____________________________________________________________
NewsGroups Suchen, lesen, schreiben mit http://netnews.web.de


From seant at iNOSPAM.webreply.com  Sat Jan 20 20:47:46 2001
From: seant at iNOSPAM.webreply.com (Sean True)
Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 01:47:46 GMT
Subject: Announce: adoexport.py - export from Access 2000 to MySQL via Microsoft Active Data Objects (ADO)
Message-ID: <9lfk6to93ifsq0sb7evjg4ie2r6eh5bbqu@4ax.com>

Export from Access 2000 to MySQL via ADO. 

adoexport is a  Python module for exporting data from Microsoft Access
to MySQL. Uses Mark Hammond's win32 support, available from
ActiveState. Inspired by the Visual Basic utility from
www.cynergi.net. Any bugs are our fault , however, not theirs. 

This implementation is free for re-use, without any encumbrance from
the implementors: Sean D. True and Peter McA'Nulty of WebReply.Com

This is an early version -- no documentation, little usage
information. We do use it for production, however. This utility may
work on other ADO data sources with some modest tweaking of the
functions used to open the ADO object. It was lightly tweaked to test
ADO/ODBC objects.
 
Download adoexport0.1.zip from http://metagram.webreply.com


-- Sean

Sean True
WebReply.Com, Inc.



From paul.robinson at businesscollaborator.com  Tue Jan 30 08:08:37 2001
From: paul.robinson at businesscollaborator.com (Paul Robinson)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 13:08:37 +0000
Subject: slow joinings of strings
References: <87ofwpnrpp.fsf@losthighway.ahoj.pl> <3A76B5F4.A0D1E117@schlund.de> <87k87dnr77.fsf@losthighway.ahoj.pl>
Message-ID: <3A76BCD5.233CC49F@businesscollaborator.com>

Karol Bryd wrote:
> 
> Carsten Gaebler <cg at schlund.de> writes:
> 
> > This should be faster:
> >
> > s = open(file, 'r').read()
> 
> Ok, this works fine as long as I want to read whole file at once,
> but in my case, unfortunately, I need to read file part by part
> (the file is RFC822 message, and I want to extract some MIME parts
> from it).

The other messages in the thread give you some tips on making this
construct faster - but if you trying to do rfc822/MIME parsing then I'd
have a look at the rfc822 and mimetools modules.

Paul Robinson
Business Collaborator Development Manager
Enviros Software Solutions
WWW: http://www.businesscollaborator.com



From erno-news at erno.iki.fi  Mon Jan 22 18:57:09 2001
From: erno-news at erno.iki.fi (Erno Kuusela)
Date: 23 Jan 2001 01:57:09 +0200
Subject: serial i/o under linux?
References: <94igau$h6i$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <ku1ytv9m3u.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>

In article <94igau$h6i$1 at nnrp1.deja.com>, henry_crun3583 at my-deja.com writes:

| Can anyone give an example of simple serial port ops under linux?
| ie I want to write a string, and readlines until done or timeout....

look in ftp://ftp.tummy.com/pub/tummy/cid/ for example code. it is a
caller id thingy written by sean reifschneider.

  -- erno


From ullrich at math.okstate.edu  Mon Jan  8 09:42:36 2001
From: ullrich at math.okstate.edu (David C. Ullrich)
Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2001 14:42:36 GMT
Subject: Grab text from html with user and pass???
References: <Z5g66.16889$0x5.1386532@news3.cableinet.net>
Message-ID: <3a59d104.8675840@nntp.sprynet.com>

On Mon, 08 Jan 2001 09:52:57 GMT, "Paul Goodyear"
<paul at gudge.demon.co.uk> wrote:

>I am trying to pull out a Ip address from a .html file,
>
>I have done this successfully already BUT,
>
>The site has a password, the username is blank and the pass word is ****
>blah blah
>
>When I run the
>
>[code]      url.urlopen('http://www.blah.com/ip.html')
>
>all I get is "Enter username for ** at ** :"   if i press just return I am
>then asked for the password, after entering the password the process just
>keeps repeating.
>
>I know for well that the password is correct, I just need it to accept a
>blank username

Probably the problem is something else so this won't help, but
it couldn't hurt to try: You can specify the url as

url.urlopen('http://username:password at www.blah.com/ip.html')

or maybe it's

url.urlopen('http://password:username at www.blah.com/ip.html')

>Regards,
>
>Paul Goodyear
>
>



From vsbabu at erols.com  Wed Jan 17 18:32:29 2001
From: vsbabu at erols.com (Satheesh Babu)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 18:32:29 -0500
Subject: Where to find the 'dbi' and 'odbc' modules?
References: <mailman.979634964.31590.python-list@python.org> <941cbh02uo8@news1.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <945a14$904$1@bob.news.rcn.net>

> My favourite way of accessing DB's on NT (fastest, convenient) is
> via Microsoft's ADO/AODX object model; you can use it (just like you
> can use any other COM/Automation object model) via module win32com,

Alex,

If you have any very small example on using ADO + Python to connect
to an ODBC source and execute a query, can you send that to me.

I'm still learning Python and COM...

Many thanks in advance

--
v.s.babu
vsbabu at erols.com
http://vsbabu.csoft.net





From donn at u.washington.edu  Tue Jan 16 14:51:58 2001
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: 16 Jan 2001 19:51:58 GMT
Subject: File I/O, rfc822, and stdin/stdout
References: <m9b26t8f11lvfjg8a59fo8nfdcl1ro9art@4ax.com> <mailman.979458074.1585.python-list@python.org> <72i36t8mmo27mi2nmv5iahr4ospps9crat@4ax.com> <slrn9644ug.lf.ssthapa@ntcs-ip45.uchicago.edu>
Message-ID: <9428ou$11h0$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>

Quoth ssthapa at harper.uchicago.edu ():
| Sheila King <sheila at thinkspot.net> wrote:
|>
|> <rfc822.Message instance at 80bf6d8>
|
|     Your python script doesn't seem to understand how to print 
| objects from the rfc822 module.  In particular I believe you need to
| read the fp instance variable and print the data it returns.  E.g.
|
| for line in foo.fp.readlines():
|     print line
|
| or something like that.

That would work, but then her example would work too.  rf822.Message
has a __str__() function that returns the header lines.

Which is OK, as long as the resulting line separators work out OK.
Some data will end with '\r\n' and will need to be converted to
'\n', or vice versa.  Actual RFC822 protocol probably says nothing
about that, as far as I know, but the SMTP, POP and IMAP protocols
that carry it are CRLF, also some relatively obscure folder formats;
meanwhile, conventional UNIX mail is LF.

	Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu


From lele at seldati.it  Wed Jan 10 07:34:18 2001
From: lele at seldati.it (Lele Gaifax)
Date: 10 Jan 2001 13:34:18 +0100
Subject: Test, please ignore
Message-ID: <m366jnh9h1.fsf@paci.nautilus>

Ditto.
-- 
nickname: Lele Gaifax	| Quando vivro' di quello che ho pensato ieri
real: Emanuele Gaifas	| comincero' ad aver paura di chi mi copia.
email: lele at seldati.it	|		-- Fortunato Depero, 1929.



From kare at speech.kth.se  Fri Jan  5 09:48:04 2001
From: kare at speech.kth.se (Kare Sjolander)
Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 15:48:04 +0100
Subject: mp3-lib
References: <mailman.978597784.11149.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3A55DEA4.7FFD14F6@speech.kth.se>

Take a look at Snack, http://www.speech.kth.se/snack/
It supports Windows 95/98/NT/2000, Linux, Macintosh, Sun Solaris, HP-UX,
NetBSD, and SGI IRIX.

To play an MP3 sound file

from tkSnack import *
initializeSnack(Tkinter.Tk())

s = Sound(file='song.mp3')

s.play()

Kare





From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Jan 26 12:25:08 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 18:25:08 +0100
Subject: xor operator?
References: <3A719880.6621@hvision.nl>; from ivnowa@hvision.nl on Fri, Jan 26, 2001 at 04:32:16PM +0100 <mailman.980527355.22048.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <94sbtl02ltq@news2.newsguy.com>

"Hans Nowak" <ivnowa at hvision.nl> wrote in message
news:mailman.980527355.22048.python-list at python.org...
    [snip]
> I found Python's behavior very confusing at first -- 'and' and 'or' that
> return something else than 0 and 1? I've come to like it now, but
> apparently haven't fathomed everything of it.

It's actually pretty useful IMHO.  I miss it in C, which lets me USE
non-booleans as true/false, but whose && and || operators do not RETURN
the argument-value...

> > (not not x)^(not not y)
> >
> > which is just about as obvious as 'x xor y'.

Incidentally, (not x)^(not y) is shorter and also equivalent:-).


Alex





From dsh8290 at rit.edu  Mon Jan 15 13:57:36 2001
From: dsh8290 at rit.edu (D-Man)
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 13:57:36 -0500
Subject: do python programmers avoid the mac?
In-Reply-To: <3A60DF26.C7B6F785@mjs400.co.uk>; from p@mjs400.co.uk on Sun, Jan 14, 2001 at 12:05:10AM +0100
References: <3A607DCC.7EF7809C@mjs400.co.uk> <Uy086.5867$Qb7.841014@newsb.telia.net> <3A60DF26.C7B6F785@mjs400.co.uk>
Message-ID: <20010115135735.A9348@harmony.cs.rit.edu>

On Sun, Jan 14, 2001 at 12:05:10AM +0100, Pete wrote:
| Hi Fredrik
| 
| Played with python on mac OS 9 for a few months...lots of loud noises
| (me when it crashes again.) I'm thinking that with far fewer
| developer-eyes off the main-stream this thing is never going to be
| stable enough...I'll be patient and hope that Mac OS X is a more of a
| hit with the technical bods that matter. 
| 
| Although thinking about Mr Job's promise of OS X being a first-class
| Java environment and exposing lots of neat OS features, perhaps Jython
| could be the answer? 
| 

I'm experimenting with Jython now.  It's pretty cool.  You can write
Python code and run it in an interpreter like usual, or you can
compile it to java bytecode.  When it is java bytecode, it basically
just calls the appropriate API functions in the interpreter.  (You
still need to have the interpreter in CLASSPATH)  Python code run by
Jython has access to Java classes.

-D




From sholden at holdenweb.com  Mon Jan 15 12:16:40 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 12:16:40 -0500
Subject: http authentication
References: <93qsjl$c6o$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <PjG86.754$Q06.6021@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com>

<huthut at my-deja.com> wrote in message news:93qsjl$c6o$1 at nnrp1.deja.com...
> Please forgive my, probably, very naive question.
> Im trying to hack togethe ra script that will download a number of
> files off a internet site. The only problem is that this site is
> password protected (in IE a box pops up for username and password). So
> first i tried the urllib.FancyURLopener.open(url) which prompted me for
> a username but then froze. Then i tried .open
> ('http://user:password at www.somewhere.com') but then i got:
>
> File "c:\python20\lib\urllib.py", line 513, in __init__
>     apply(URLopener.__init__, (self,) + args)
>   File "c:\python20\lib\urllib.py", line 91, in __init__
>     assert hasattr(proxies, 'has_key'), "proxies must be a mapping"
> AssertionError: proxies must be a mapping
>
> Does anyone have any suggestions?
>
> Thanks in advance

Best approach would probably be to include the Basic authentication headers
in the request you send to the server, using httplib.putheader().

regards
 Steve




From embed at NO_SPAM_PLEASE.geocities.com  Thu Jan  4 11:18:07 2001
From: embed at NO_SPAM_PLEASE.geocities.com (Warren Postma)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 11:18:07 -0500
Subject: embedded python - cancel "while 1: pass"
References: <P9K46.13336$t3.31020@tor-nn1.netcom.ca> <EmK46.3488$Qb7.431195@newsb.telia.net>
Message-ID: <Eo156.83$Oe.897@tor-nn1.netcom.ca>

Okay, I have a worse case than WHILE 1: PASS

How about uninterruptible C code called via python, such as this:

print 2L ** 2L ** 256

I've let this run for 15 minutes and it didn't complete. There is no
apparent way to abort it either, as it spends its time in long_mult and the
Python scheduler doesn't even run. It must complete eventually. Any idea how
long long_mult and long_pow will take to complete this?

In that case, I think I'm still stuck with the Three Finger Salute method
(reboot).

Warren






From peter at engcorp.com  Wed Jan 31 22:56:50 2001
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 22:56:50 -0500
Subject: serial port
References: <3a78ca89_2@skyweb.ca>
Message-ID: <3A78DE82.1EE39E06@engcorp.com>

mike wrote:
> 
> is there any modules for serial port communication?

Yes.  No.  Depends on the platform.  Are you running
on Windows?  Linux?  Elsewhere?


From cpsoct at my-deja.com  Tue Jan  2 01:50:54 2001
From: cpsoct at my-deja.com (cpsoct at my-deja.com)
Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2001 06:50:54 GMT
Subject: Year of the Snake
References: <HD046.21887$Aj6.1292110@news.hananet.net>
Message-ID: <92rtoe$a3n$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

??????????. ???? ??????????????.Python conference???? ???? ??????? ????
?? ???? ???? ?? ?????? Python?? ?????? ????????.

???? ?? ???? ????????.

I am an american living in Seoul and would like to go to the conference
if possible. Are non-Koreans welcome?

Happy new year.

kevin parks
cpsoct at lycos.com



Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From brian_zhou at agilentNOSPAM.com  Sun Jan 28 20:22:42 2001
From: brian_zhou at agilentNOSPAM.com (Brian Zhou)
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 17:22:42 -0800
Subject: SICP subsets exercise in python?
References: <980725379.806449@emperor.labs.agilent.com> <G7wDLI.96M@world.std.com>
Message-ID: <980731358.408959@emperor.labs.agilent.com>

Thanks Will,

The problem I had was that being a python newbie, I didn't know in python +
is used for concat lists. Tried append(), insert(,0) without success. If you
happen to use python2.0+, list comprehension make it reads even better.

def subsets(biglist):
    if [] == biglist:
        return [[]]
    else:
        rest = subsets(biglist[1:])
        return rest + [[biglist[0]] + x for x in rest]

/Brian

"Will Ware" <wware at world.std.com> wrote in message
news:G7wDLI.96M at world.std.com...
> Brian Zhou (brian_zhou at agilentNOSPAM.com) wrote:
> > Just curious if I can do it easily in Python, kind of give up after a
few
> > tries. Anyone?
>
> You could do worse than a straightforward translation from Scheme to
Python:
>
> def subsets(biglist):
>     if not biglist:
>         return [ [ ] ]
>     rest = subsets(biglist[1:])
>     def func(ss, s=biglist[0]):
>         return [s] + ss
>     return rest + map(func, rest)
>
> There is probably a more idiomatically Pythonic way to do this. I'm
> too lazy to think of it right now. I'd start by looking for opportunities
> to replace recursion with iteration.
>
> --
> import string,time,os;print string.join((lambda x:x[:10]+x[8:])(map(
> lambda x:string.center("*"*(lambda x:((x<24) ### Seasons Greetings, Will
Ware
> *(x-3))+3)(x),24),range(1,28, 2))),"\n") ################
wware at world.std.com




From Randy.L.Kemp at motorola.com  Thu Jan  4 10:52:55 2001
From: Randy.L.Kemp at motorola.com (Kemp Randy-W18971)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 09:52:55 -0600 
Subject: Python vs. PHP (& Java?)
Message-ID: <69BC4C6AE83ED311BC9400805FA7B14AF84D52@il93exp01.css.mot.com>

Hey, guys!  We are all getting philosophical again - embracing either Darwinism, pragmatism, etc.  We would all get into big trouble if some academic professor of philosophy took up Python programming as a hobby, subscribed to this newsletter, and decided to shoot some holes in our various philosophical viewpoints.  

-----Original Message-----
From: Alex Martelli [mailto:aleaxit at yahoo.com]
Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2001 7:44 AM
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: Re: Python vs. PHP (& Java?)


<rturpin at my-deja.com> wrote in message news:92jffg$cs1$1 at nnrp1.deja.com...
> I wrote:
> >> .. If you want to look for adaptation, sexual selection
> >> may have more to do with this than natural selection. A
> >> silver tongue will not save you from the lion or bag
> >> the deer, but it will win a heart.
>
> In article <92j7q0033j at news1.newsguy.com>,
>   "Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote:
> > Sexual selection, particularly female-choice, IS very much
> > a part of natural selection ..
>
> I had the notion that Darwin distinguished the two. Not to

Oh yes, very much so -- particularly in 'Descent of Man',
of course; he basically posited them as different, even
competing mechanisms, seeing 'natural' selection as
inherently 'adaptive', 'sexual' selection as sometimes
to the contrary.  Fisher, I believe, contributed some
crucial insight in terms of a mathematical model of
"runaway sexual selection", and even more recent scholars
weighed in heavily on this side.

> imply that sexual selection is unnatural, but simply to
> differently label the two mechanisms. But I could remember
> wrong; I am no biologist.

Me neither: but I have hubris enough to strongly side
with more recent theorists in the field (of course, I
guess I would be incensed if a biologist expressed
himself as strongly in, e.g., the single versus multiple
inheritance schools of MY professional field -- but, as
everybody and his cousin DO think themselves past masters
at programming, the least I can do is reciprocate:-).

Briefly (cfr. e.g. Dorak's "Notes on Elementary Evolutionary
Biology", which offer the advantage of good web availability
at http://dorakmt.tripod.com/evolution/index.html):
"""
When fitness is seen as reproductive success rather than
simply survival, sexual selection [...] is no different from
what natural selection does
"""
and as reproductive success is the *only* 'fitness'
criterion that *ever* gets 'selected' for, the *only*
sense in which 'adaptive' can be read, the attempt
at drawing a fundamental distinction appears misguided
to me.  "Ability to survive", just like "being a
desirable mate for the other sex", or any other effect
of a phenotype's traits, is _indirectly_ adaptive in as
much as it can promote reproductive success.

I should, however, have acknowledged the traditional
distinction, and I apologize for the omission of such
acknowledgment!


Alex






From alisdair.meredith at NO_SPAM_PLEASE.benettonformula.com  Thu Jan 25 18:53:16 2001
From: alisdair.meredith at NO_SPAM_PLEASE.benettonformula.com (AlisdairM)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 23:53:16 +0000
Subject: Advice for a first project
Message-ID: <3A70BC6C.333AC9F8@NO_SPAM_PLEASE.benettonformula.com>

After hearing so many good things about Python ( namely that it makes
the simple things simple again! ) I am hoping to find time to learn it
in the near future, other projects permitting.

Generally, I find languages/techniques best picked up if you have a
specific project in mind, and looking around I *think* I have a suitable
candidate due in the next few months anyway :? )

Given that I still know little about the language, I am hoping some
friendly knowledgable local could tell me if this is a realistic goal, a
good use of Python, or one of those projects that can be done in Python
but gains little benefit compared to C++/Delphi/VB/ASM/<insert generic
language here>

The basic project will be our source-code archiver/release manager.  We
have quite a few projects deployed internally, all written in C++.  I
want to create a tool to 

  archive release code to a shared server ( source and executables )
  recreate a fresh build environment from that server
  automatically update header file version constants
  incorporate simple bug-tracking database
  create Release note from the bug-track dbase

I expect most of this will be creating/pasing plain text files that
define what the system should look like, and the bug-tracking database
will also be little more than some plain-text notes initially, stored in
a related part of the server.

A real bonus would be to create build scripts to kick of the C++
compiler as well, and only distribute on a successful build.

I hope to gain a primitive source-control tool, and a working knowledge
of Python that will let me appreciate what it can really do for us.

What I need to know now is how realistic this target is, and what
resources I will need to make this fly when I get that free week to give
it a shot.  I have time to buy books, download tutorials/IDEs/libraries
now.  I don't want to lose 'learning time' chasing these up during that
week or two.

Any recommendations/advice.  What should I expect to achieve with a week
or two (tops) for the exercise?  


AlisdairM


From robin at alldunn.com  Sun Jan 28 19:21:07 2001
From: robin at alldunn.com (Robin Dunn)
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 16:21:07 -0800
Subject: does python have a GUI
References: <TMDc6.984$KP3.528954@news3.rdc1.on.home.com>
Message-ID: <7I2d6.1320$1Pu.165347356@news.randori.com>

"shaka" <fabrice.n at home.com> wrote in message news:TMDc6.984$KP3.528954 at news3.rdc1.on.home.com...
> 
> I am new at programming and I have started to learn python.  I used to learn
> to program Java applet at school.   Java used to have a bunch of Graphic
> User Interface(GUI).
> I was wondering if python had also a GUI, or how do I give a physical
> appearance to my program like a window that open and ask the user to enter
> something(not talking about the interactive mode).
> 
> 

See http://starbase.neosoft.com/~claird/comp.lang.python/python_GUI.html for a summary.  Or you could just go directly to my personal favorite:  http://wxPython.org/


-- 
Robin Dunn
Software Craftsman
robin at AllDunn.com       Java give you jitters?
http://wxPython.org      Relax with wxPython!




From mfletch at tpresence.com  Wed Jan  3 14:57:33 2001
From: mfletch at tpresence.com (Mike Fletcher)
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2001 14:57:33 -0500 
Subject: Threads
Message-ID: <CC59868A0A76D311B1F50090277B321C1F3780@VRTMAIL>

To clarify this (I think Don knows, but others might not):

With the current uthread (micro-thread) system, you can kill a micro-thread,
but only if you can get the scheduler code to run.  If a micro-thread hangs
_in C code that hasn't released the Python interpreter lock_ then you can't
kill the thread (and your whole micro-threads simulation is hosed, as the
scheduler will not run any more).

Python code in a micro-thread that's taking forever to complete (such as a
long-running AI computation, or a thread that's blocking on a lock) can be
killed easily using the provided methods of the thread object.

I've never tried killing a thread that's running C code that _has_ released
the interpreter lock, so no idea what happens then.  The uthread would be
gone when the C code returns, no idea what it would do when it discovers
that (I mean, when you get a Dear John letter, do you go to pieces, a bar,
or on a date?  Is there really a correct answer?).

Enjoy,
Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: Donn Cave
To: python-list at python.org
Sent: 1/3/2001 2:15 PM
Subject: Re: Threads
...
>From what I have heard of the stackless microthread system, you
won't get the `processes that "hang up" can just be killed' part
of what you want there, at least not for all causes of hanging up.
Honestly, I guess you won't get it from Python threads either,
because there is no provision in the API for killing a thread, but
at least the process will continue, because these threads go down
to the operating system level where the usual hanging up happens.
...



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Thu Jan  4 03:55:18 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 09:55:18 +0100
Subject: Unexpected result for list operator "+="
References: <3A542778.E1BC06E3@bogusaddress.com>
Message-ID: <931dri02c2g@news2.newsguy.com>

"Joe Smith" <JoeSmith at bogusaddress.com> wrote in message
news:3A542778.E1BC06E3 at bogusaddress.com...
>
> I unexpectedly get l1 modified by doing "l += l2" (see example 1).  I take
> it is because l and l1 point to the same object.  If I use the string type
> instead of the list type, I don't get l2 modified.  I guess that list
> assignment is an assignment of the reference to the object and it does not
> copy the object.  Where as a string object gets copied (see example 2).

No, _everything_ goes by reference: but certain objects, such as strings,
are *immutable* -- others, such as lists, are *mutable*.  This is the
very reason for existence of _tuples_: they're just like lists, *except*
they are immutable (this allows them, for example, to be keys in a
dictionary: lists, being mutable, cannot be used as dictionary keys).

"Assigning-operators" such as += operate *in-place* (for speed) if this
is feasible (the left-hand operand is mutable), but, of course, not for
an immutable left-hand side -- in which case, a new object must be
created instead, and the left-hand side variable rebound to it.


So, given a sequence S, and another sequence X, the statement:

    S += X

operates differently for mutable or immutable S.  If S is mutable (list),
it works the same as
    S.extend(X)
i.e, just the same as
    S[-1:] = list(X)


If S is immutable, though, the statement becomes a rebinding,
exactly equivalent to
    S = S + X

You may use this form directly if you don't care about speed and
want to make sure S is re-bound to a totally new object, rather
than the already-existing object being modified.  There is, of
course, no way to ensure the existing object is modified: if it's
immutable, then it will NEVER be modified:-).


Alex





From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Jan 29 00:36:22 2001
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 00:36:22 -0500
Subject: Anyone get python on win98??
References: <WXZc6.8032$KP3.2632221@news3.rdc1.on.home.com>
Message-ID: <3A750156.E3E81182@engcorp.com>

shaka wrote:
> 
> Ok, I need some help here.  I just download python on my computer.
> I installed it to     C:\programming\python20
> 
> I know how to use the interactive mode.  And when write a script I usually
> run it from the editor(idle) by clicking on "run script".
> 
> But when I try to run the script using the interpreter, it doesn't work.
> What I do is to type the name of the script.py in the interactive mode. It
> always give me an error message like:
>                         Traceback (most recent call last):
>                           File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>                         NameError: There is no variable named 'hello'
> 
> Is the interpreter suppose to be in interactive mode everytime?

Sounds like you are trying to do the following in the interpreter:

c:\programming\python20>python
Python 2.0 (#8, Oct 16 2000, 17:27:58) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> hello
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
NameError: There is no variable named 'hello'
>>>

This is because you do _not_ execute scripts in the interpreter
that way.  The other responses point out how you can run the 
script directly from the MS-DOS command prompt, with just
'python hello.py', but this doesn't work when you are in
the interactive mode.

Instead, you could do the following:

>>> import hello
Hello, world
>>>

This is not exactly the same as doing it from the command
prompt, however, and until you understand the differences
you might want to stick with the other method.

> If you have no idea of what I am talking about, can you just describe me how
> you usually run your script.

I just use the command prompt and 'python hello.py' as
the tutorial probably shows.


From News at Titanic.co.uk  Thu Jan 25 08:35:12 2001
From: News at Titanic.co.uk (Simon Faulkner)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 13:35:12 GMT
Subject: Online Shopping Software
Message-ID: <hra07t8vpn1u2aknf9m4q68hme927ml0hc@4ax.com>

Hi All,


Does anyone have any experience with or recommendations for ecommerce
software for Linux?

Preferably running Python because I can at least write a little
Python.

TIA

Simon
Simon Faulkner


From jdgorman at ieeeSPAMnot.org  Tue Jan  2 01:21:18 2001
From: jdgorman at ieeeSPAMnot.org (John D. Gorman)
Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2001 06:21:18 GMT
Subject: Electronic edition of 'The Standard Python Library'
References: <t7746.63812$59.17990421@news3.rdc1.on.home.com> <4f746.2529$AH6.401534@newsc.telia.net> <uDa46.65273$59.18402781@news3.rdc1.on.home.com>
Message-ID: <3A517247.1B79FFC2@ieeeSPAMnot.org>

Tom,
    I also had a registration problem with the Fatbrain ematter version of /F's
book. This occured when I went to move the document from a Win95 (brick of a)
laptop to a Win98 (ultrathin) laptop last May.  Yes I did end up having to
re-register with Fatbrain and this did involve talking to a (very gracious)
customer service person.  Still, in this case I paid my $ and the book has
followed me from one machine to another.  I have not tried installing it on a
WinNT machine.

    I just tried my copy today (2 Jan) and it works fine .  The Fatbrain
registration process does deposit a key in the registry at
HKEY_CURRENT_USER->Software->Fatbrain->ematter->EB00002582. In there is a 161
byte key labeled "PDF 1.1" that contains binary data.

    I actually like the Acroreader format.  Similar to HTML-based ebooks, there
are text search, text copy and hyperlinking capabilities.  In addition, acroread
offers typeset formatting and look-and-feel capabilities that aren't typically
available with HTML-based versions. /F's book ebook doesn't appear to use
hyperlinks (say between index or toc and the referenced page), but it's a
compact enough reference that you almost don't need it.   /F has also turned off
text copying (i.e., cut and paste to the clipboard, perhaps for obvious reasons)
so that you end up having to type in the code examples yourself. Again, I don't
view this as a real inconvenience.  One true inconvenience is its current
limitation to Win platforms.  I get around this by running an remote xterms and
ssh from my Win laptop ;^).

    And, yes CDs are good for volumnous collections (such as the O'Reilly Perl
CD) where you'll need access to several hundred MB of reference info.  However,
then I'd need to have a CD player hanging from this micro-mini,
weighs-less-than-the-case-I-carry-it-in laptop in order to read the book and
that'd be a real pain.  After all, The Standard Python Library e-book consumes
all of 1.07MB!  I'm waiting for O'Reilly, New Riders and Manning and some of the
other publishers to get together and publish an electronic Python CD (similar to
O'Reilly's Perl CD) that cross references all the books by keyword and topic
;^).

Cheers,
John


Tom wrote:

> Fatbrain edition.
>
> Attempting to get a response from some c/s dept. is the sort of thing that I
> don't want to have to get into.
>
> Yes, I could have printed it - but I thought I was paying for an electronic
> edition (ie. searchable, convenient, etc.).
>
> If anyone wants to know what a good electronic edition looks like, see the
> 'Effective C++ CD' by Scott Meyers - it's excellent.
>
> Tom.
>
> "Fredrik Lundh" <fredrik at effbot.org> wrote in message
> news:4f746.2529$AH6.401534 at newsc.telia.net...
> > "Tom" <NoSpam at NoSpam.com> wrote:
> > > I tried to use my electronic copy of 'The Standard Python Library' today
> > > (Jan 1), but was unable to.
> >
> > the fatbrain edition?  the mightywords edition?  the glassbook
> > edition?  have you contacted customer support?
> >
> > > It is possible that I did something wrong - I have no idea - but I would
> > > caution anyone else who might be considering buying this.  The book is
> fine,
> > > but the format is a complete hassle.  You pay your money, but you don't
> > > really get the book.
> >
> > well, nothing stops you from printing it...
> >
> > </F>
> >
> >



From richard_chamberlainREMOVE at ntlworld.com  Wed Jan 17 02:44:31 2001
From: richard_chamberlainREMOVE at ntlworld.com (Richard Chamberlain)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 07:44:31 -0000
Subject: Are there Tkinter examples somewhere?
References: <20010117000807.198D9E951@mail.python.org> <mailman.979701138.11862.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <2_b96.3046$3N1.70150@news2-win.server.ntlworld.com>

Hi Terry,

from Tkinter import *
root=Tk()
def iMove(pos):
    print pos
myScale=Scale(root,orient=VERTICAL,length=200,from_=0,to=250,tickinterval=25
,command=iMove)
myScale.pack()
root.mainloop()

If you just pass the command option a function name it will pass a single
value which is the current value of the Scale.

If you going to be doing some serious work with Tkinter then have a look at
John Grayson's book Python and Tkinter programming.

Richard


Terry Hancock <hancock at earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:mailman.979701138.11862.python-list at python.org...
> Hi,
> I'm trying to learn how to use the Tkinter toolkit
> to build an applications in Python, and I'm
> having trouble fathoming how to use all the widgets.
>
> I've got a copy of Fredrik Lundh's "An Introduction
> to Tkinter", but I need a bit more on some widgets.
>
> For example, the "Scale" widget is very poorly
> represented.
>
> Specifically, I want to know how to get information
> out of the Scale object.  There's a "get" method
> to poll it, but I want to have it trigger a
> response when it changes in a conventional object-
> oriented way.  So, I guess I need to understand
> the "command" option callbacks better and how to
> use one with it.
>
> But this is just one of many little problems I
> have. Is there somewhere I can find sample
> code and stuff to get me started?  As is, I'm just
> guessing what options do based on the name, which
> is very frustrating (at least the document does
> list what the options are!)
>
> Thanks!
>
> --
> Terry Hancock
> hancock at earthlink.net
>




From gtalvola at nameconnector.com  Thu Jan 25 18:29:27 2001
From: gtalvola at nameconnector.com (Geoff Talvola)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 18:29:27 -0500
Subject: Tkinter vs wxPython: your opinions?
References: <3A6F899F.E164F628@home.com> <hvZb6.2156$_8.33280@news1.rdc1.bc.home.com> <slrn9710o1.73.cerutti@fiad06.norwich.edu> <nY1c6.87$DPo.11993392@news.randori.com>
Message-ID: <3A70B6D7.98C191A6@NameConnector.com>

> "Neil Cerutti" <cerutti at together.net> wrote in message news:slrn9710o1.73.cerutti at fiad06.norwich.edu...
> >
> > For comparison purposes, I'm writing my first GUI app, a simple
> > wrapper for slrn, in Tkinter and wxPython.

Here's my opinion, and keep in mind that I only use Windows:

I initially chose Tkinter for a Python GUI because of the excellent book "Python and Tkinter Programming" by John Grayson.  If you plan on using Tkinter, you MUST get this book.  Nothing even close to this exists for wxPython, and I can't imagine doing Tkinter programming without it.

In addition to the excellent book, I do like Tkinter's "pack" and "grid" layout managers, and code using Tkinter seems pretty concise.  For applications where functionality is everything and little details of appearance are not important, Tkinter is great.

That said, I'm considering switching to wxPython because of the following issues:

* Tkinter has no multi-column list box with resizable columns -- wxPython does.
* Tkinter has no built-in way to change the icon that shows up in the upper-left corner of your windows -- wxPython does.  I don't want to see "Tk" on all of my windows.  (I was able to get around this problem by writing an extension DLL to change the icon after the window comes up.)
* Tkinter puts an annoying underline underneath the selected item in a list box.  wxPython's list box looks like native Windows (because it is native windows).  (I was somehow able to get around this problem after a lot of experimenting with options.)
* PMW's combo box doesn't look or act like the standard Windows combo box. (Again, a lot of tweaking of options and some editing of Tkinter source code made it look and act a lot more like the Windows combo box, but not exactly.)
* When you pop up a new window in Tkinter, you can see it place the widgets in one position, then resize the window and shuffle the widgets around.  Looks unprofessional.  (You can open up the window off-screen, get it to shuffle the controls while the window is off-screen, then move it onto the screen to work around this problem.)
* wxPython supports ActiveX controls, so if there's something it doesn't do natively, I can pop in an ActiveX control to do it.  Tkinter doesn't support this directly, although I think there's a Tk module that can do ActiveX.  Good luck adapting it to Tkinter.
* wxPython has a really nice-looking GUI designer, wxDesigner, although it costs some money.  There's also Boa Constructor for a free designer, but it's not nearly as easy to use as wxDesigner.  Tkinter has nothing comparable.  Maybe PythonWorks's designer will one day be as nice as wxDesigner.
* wxPython is much faster (once it's loaded).

As you can see, I was able to work around some of the issues above, but with wxPython I won't have to work around them; things will work as people to expect them to work in the Windows world.  At least I hope so -- I haven't converted yet!

--


- Geoff Talvola
  Parlance Corporation
  gtalvola at NameConnector.com




From jessw at loop.com  Thu Jan 18 20:23:35 2001
From: jessw at loop.com (Jesse W)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 17:23:35 -0800
Subject: Why is "as" not a keyword?
Message-ID: <3A679717.1328@loop.com>

Most people know about the functionality of the import statement that
lets you import something under a differnt name.  It uses the word "as"
to tell the interpreter.  Why is "as" not a keyword?  Other flag parts
of commands are keywords, like "in", or "from". Why not "as"? 
Currently, it seems to me to be confusing when you type
	import foo as bar
 in IDLE, and import lights up as a keyword, but "as", which has to be
there and is clearly part of the syntax, does not.  If this question has
been answered already, pardon me; I have not seen the answer anywhere.

					Jesse W


From SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk  Thu Jan 11 04:46:43 2001
From: SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk (Simon Brunning)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 09:46:43 -0000
Subject: mxTools (was Re: why no "do : until"?)
Message-ID: <31575A892FF6D1118F5800600846864D5B16CF@intrepid>

> From:	Max M?ller Rasmussen [SMTP:maxm at normik.dk]
> From: Oleg Broytmann [mailto:phd at phd.pp.ru]
> >   Anyone here has any doubts that at least mxDateTime simply MUST be in
> >the Python core? :)
> No that would be a great idea, but doesn't the license prevent that?
 
As far as I can see, mxDateTime doesn't have restrictions in its license -
it's mxODBC which does.

Is this right, Marc?

*Both* of these are essential to me personally. I also use Marc's additional
built-ins, but they are really just a nice to have. (*Very* nice, but still
just nice.)

So, if this were a democracy, which it isn't, I'd vote for mxDateTime to
definitely go in, for someone to think about the additional built-ins, and
for mxODBC to stay separate.

As it is, though, it's a one-man-one-vote system. Guido is the man, he has
the vote. So we'll just have to wait and see...

Cheers,
Simon Brunning
TriSystems Ltd.
sbrunning at trisystems.co.uk




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From justinhj at hotmail.com  Fri Jan 19 13:06:38 2001
From: justinhj at hotmail.com (JustinHJ)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 10:06:38 -0800
Subject: importing classes from a variable
References: <t6f17dps6c4d87@corp.supernews.com> <8ujg6t469ju4rirrh4dhci7a35fus4tfg7@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <t6h0ntqf17ma26@corp.supernews.com>

thanks for the help guys

I think in a nutshell what I needed was the following. I've removed
exception handling to simplify the example...

    fp, pathname, description = imp.find_module( modname )

    print 'importing module', modname
    LoadedModule = imp.load_module( modname, fp, pathname, description)
    LoadedModule.Export(i)





From root at rainerdeyke.com  Fri Jan 12 18:59:43 2001
From: root at rainerdeyke.com (Rainer Deyke)
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 23:59:43 GMT
Subject: is Python fully object oriented ?
References: <mailman.979292174.19166.python-list@python.org> <93nifo$qa7$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <PTM76.33769$ge4.13694384@news2.rdc2.tx.home.com>

"David C. Ullrich" <ullrich at math.okstate.edu> wrote in message
news:93nifo$qa7$1 at nnrp1.deja.com...
> A person could invent syntax to do exactly that one thing
> with an implicit self, maybe with an "inherited" keyword
> as in the one language I know with an implicit self (Object
> Pascal). How would a person do
>
> class C(A, B):
>   def __init__(self):
>     A.__init__(self)
>     B.__init__(self)
>
> with an implicit self?

The following is valid C++:

struct A {
  A() {} // empty constructor, no arguments
};

struct B {
  B() {} // same
};

struct C : A, B {
  C() : A(), B() {} // explictly calls both base constructors
};

Incidentially, all three of the above constructors would have been
automatically generated by the compiler were they not explictly declared.
Whether this is a Good Thing or a Bad Thing depends on your perspective.

A better example might be a non-constructor function:

struct A {
  void f() {}
};

struct B {
  void f() {}
};

struct C : A, B {
  void f() { A::f(); B::f(); }
};


--
Rainer Deyke (root at rainerdeyke.com)
Shareware computer games           -           http://rainerdeyke.com
"In ihren Reihen zu stehen heisst unter Feinden zu kaempfen" - Abigor




From fredrik at effbot.org  Wed Jan 17 18:31:09 2001
From: fredrik at effbot.org (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 23:31:09 GMT
Subject: Regular expressions
References: <MPG.14cf88e8d0c87a6d989681@news.syd.connect.com.au>
Message-ID: <1Xp96.7339$AH6.1127601@newsc.telia.net>

"Realware Systems" wrote:
> I have been looking at the docs at python.org but I must be missing
> something.

http://www.python.org/doc/howto/regex/regex.html

Cheers /F




From N010117clp at dancing.org  Wed Jan 17 15:24:35 2001
From: N010117clp at dancing.org (Peter Renzland)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 20:24:35 GMT
Subject: help with code for combinations/permutations
References: <944adl$2bf@dispatch.concentric.net> <944opo$2b9@dispatch.concentric.net>
Message-ID: <7cn96.311915$_5.70735905@news4.rdc1.on.home.com>

Bryan Webb wrote on 17 Jan 2001 18:37:44 GMT:

> I wasnt as clear as I should have been. (as usual)
> I really need to come up with all the possible sums of the numbers in the
> list ie. 1 , sum(1 + 2), sum(1 + 2 + 3) ,sum( 1+2+4),sum( 1 + 3) and so on.

Hm.  What are you going to do with "all the possible sums", and when?
Have you considered how many such sums there are?  And do you care
about duplicates?  If you only want "all the *different sums", there are
exactly 136 of them.  Is that what you want?

If not, brace yourself for a long wait :-)

-- 
Peter


From anderson at boi.hp.com  Wed Jan 17 08:26:09 2001
From: anderson at boi.hp.com (Bill Anderson)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 06:26:09 -0700
Subject: using snack to eat an mp3 stream
References: <3a555fe8.47773420@news.interchange.ubc.ca> <3A55DCEE.71733F2E@speech.kth.se>
Message-ID: <3A659D71.5F6EDDA1@boi.hp.com>

Kare Sjolander wrote:
> 
> Unfortunately this is not possible using Snack and Python currently. I'm
> working on a more native version of Snack for Python which will make such
> functionality possible.
> 
> If you can resort to Tcl for this task the following snippet is a
> complete audio server.
> It even plays multiple simultaneous mp3 streams.
> 
> proc Cmd {sock args} {
>   set snd [snack::sound -channel $sock]
>   $snd play -command "[list close $sock];$snd destroy"
> }
> socket -server Cmd 23654
> 

Cool.

Say, any idea on when one could expect ogg (of ogg-vorbis) support? ;^)=

-- 
Bill Anderson               Linux Specialist
Modular Network Storage     R&D           
Random Quote:
    Portable: survives system reboot.


From phd at phd.pp.ru  Wed Jan 10 04:12:07 2001
From: phd at phd.pp.ru (Oleg Broytmann)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 12:12:07 +0300 (MSK)
Subject: dns reverse look up with python ?
In-Reply-To: <nNM66.1678$_e7.114504@news2.atl>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0101101211500.10667-100000@fep132.fep.ru>

On Tue, 9 Jan 2001, Joel Ricker wrote:
> that reports if the command was successful or not.  What is the Python way
> of running command and have the actual results of the command returned?

   os.popen

Oleg.
----
     Oleg Broytmann            http://phd.pp.ru/            phd at phd.pp.ru
           Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN.




From syver at NOSPAMcyberwatcher.com  Sat Jan  6 20:40:44 2001
From: syver at NOSPAMcyberwatcher.com (Syver Enstad)
Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2001 02:40:44 +0100
Subject: How to run more than one instance of the Python interpreter in one process?
Message-ID: <938hjk$2cj$1@troll.powertech.no>

I am fiddling around with embedding Python in C/C++ and am trying to run one
interpreter per thread. I've tried using the Py_NewInterpreter and
Py_EndInterpreter for each thread but it doesn't seem to be enough because I
trigger access violations in the interpreter so I am obviously missing a
couple of things. Are there any examples on how to do these kinds of things
other than the very sparse code in the demo folder of the source
distribution.

Any help much appreciated.




From mwh21 at cam.ac.uk  Sat Jan 20 14:17:14 2001
From: mwh21 at cam.ac.uk (Michael Hudson)
Date: 20 Jan 2001 19:17:14 +0000
Subject: Finding source from class or instance?
References: <946dsv0qs@news2.newsguy.com> <979777210.145620@sj-nntpcache-5> <mailman.979891330.7996.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m3hf2u11ad.fsf@atrus.jesus.cam.ac.uk>

Moshe Zadka <moshez at zadka.site.co.il> writes:

> On Thu, 18 Jan 2001 10:42:32 +0100, "Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> > There is a dis module, that does 'disassembly' of bytecode, but
> > that's lower-level than the Python source you seek, and also
> > seems to apply only to _methods_ defined in a class rather than
> > to the code in the classbody itself (offhand, I don't know how
> > to get to the codeobject for the latter -- anybody...?).
> 
> AFAIK, you can't. The code is executed, and then forgotten.

It'll be in the co_consts for the code that executed the class
statement, I think, but that may be less than trivial to get at too.

E.g.

$ cat a.py
class A:
 def __init__(self):
  print 1
$ python
[...]
>>> f=open("a.pyc")
>>> f.seek(8)
>>> c=marshal.load(f)
>>> c.co_consts 
('A', <code object A at 0x8174668, file "a.py", line 1>, None)
>>> c.co_consts[1]
<code object A at 0x8174668, file "a.py", line 1>
>>> 

Cheers,
M.

-- 
  Programming languages should be designed not by piling feature on
  top of  feature, but by removing the  weaknesses and restrictions
  that make the additional features appear necessary.
               -- Revised(5) Report on the Algorithmic Language Scheme


From sholden at holdenweb.com  Thu Jan  4 13:19:13 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 13:19:13 -0500
Subject: Exiting a program from within an object method.
References: <9325ne014j@news2.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <ba356.64$xT.29665@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>

Benjamin Scherrey <scherrey at innoverse.com> wrote in message
news:9325ne014j at news2.newsguy.com...
>         I've written a small python program that instantiates an object
which
> inherits from SocketServer.BaseRequestHandler. The __main__ function
starts
> this thing up with the serve_forever() method. Inside the handle() method
> of my object I check for a command to shutdown and, if received, call
> sys.exit(0). All this does is generate a SystemExit exception and does not
> terminate my program. Even if I wrap the call to serve_forever() with a
> try: except: block, the exception is not caught. I presume because the
> object's handle() method is possibly being executed in a child thread and
> python must not support cross thread exception handling (I'm not
> instantiating any threads explicitly, I'm assuming that the
> BaseRequestHandler is doing this internally)?
>
The SocketServer libraries do not perform forking, or use threads, unless
you ask them to.  You do this by building classes which inherit from
ForkingXXServer or ThreadingXXXServer respectively, where XXX will either be
TCP or UDP (or Unix on U**x systems only).

>         What's a simple way to have my object exit the application
cleanly?
>
The serve_forever() method simply makes repeated requests to the
handle_request() method, which gets a request (by default using
socket.accept())  and calls process_request().  This (unless overriden)
calls finish_request(), which finally (unless overridden) creates an
instance of the RequestHandlerClass which you provided when you created your
server.  This instantiation gets three arguments: the request, the client
address, and the server object itself.

The documentation states: "If the user-provided handle() method of the
handler class raises an exception, the server's handle_error() method will
be called."  So the behavior you are seeing is to be expected.

One simple solution is to override the handle_error() method, and detect the
SystemExit.  If that's what caused the problem you can simply re-raise it to
terminate your server process.

Below is a simple program which shows you a framework for this.  A telnet to
port 8888 on the local host does now indeed terminate the server as
required.

regards
 Steve

import sys, SocketServer

class ExitRequester(SocketServer.BaseRequestHandler):

    def handle(self):
        print "About to exit"
        sys.exit(0)

class MyServer(SocketServer.TCPServer):

    def handle_error(self, request, client_address):
        """Handle an error gracefully.  Overrides standard method.

        The default is to print a traceback and continue, except in
        the case of a SystemExit exception, which should terminate
        processing.

        """
        import exceptions
        etype, evalue = sys.exc_info()[:2]
        if etype is exceptions.SystemExit: raise
        print '-'*40
        print 'Exception happened during processing of request from',
        print client_address
        import traceback
        traceback.print_exc(1000, sys.stdout)
        print '-'*40
        sys.stdout.flush()

s = MyServer(('127.0.0.1', 8888), ExitRequester)

s.serve_forever()






From grante at visi.com  Tue Jan 16 12:26:36 2001
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 17:26:36 GMT
Subject: Python and Industry, IBM I'm afraid
References: <20010111172342.10148.00000934@ng-ca1.aol.com> <HnO86.78962$_G5.11779533@typhoon.nyroc.rr.com> <3A63D9E8.F9B74ACE@mjs400.co.uk>
Message-ID: <gv%86.19$eI2.9424@ruti.visi.com>

In article <3A63D9E8.F9B74ACE at mjs400.co.uk>, Pete wrote:

>I say this because in the rarified atmosphere of this newsgroup
>(hee hee) an ignorant observer might well think that Python
>thrives only in academy land.

Judging by the types of the questions and e-mail addresses, I
think that relatively few of the Python users are in academia
-- at least compared with many other languages (Scheme, for
example).  Most Python users seem to be concerned with getting
actual work done.  Python may be hiding in the corners of
Industry, but it's there.  How many Universities teach Python?

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  I am covered with
                                  at               pure vegetable oil and I am
                               visi.com            writing a best seller!


From pbjorn at uswest.net  Wed Jan  3 10:33:31 2001
From: pbjorn at uswest.net (Bjorn Pettersen)
Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 08:33:31 -0700
Subject: why no "do : until"?
References: <92jj3j$ff7$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <92m9pm$d19$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <B3z36.122$9s1.18804@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com> <3A4EC5B1.8912E571@engcorp.com> <x8G36.156$9s1.31209@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com> <3A4F4B4D.ECD6B172@engcorp.com> <rBr46.7783$4c.597712@ruti.visi.com> <slrn9550fe.rvi.kc5tja@garnet.armored.net> <dWG46.7998$4c.647371@ruti.visi.com>
Message-ID: <3A53464A.A2B6A665@uswest.net>

Grant Edwards wrote:

> [snip]
>
> Personally, I find either style to be infinitely preferable to
> the K&R style:
>
>  if (whatever) {
>    do something;
>    do something else;
>  } else {
>    yet another thing;
>  }

Finally someone quoting the "One True Brace style", such a thing of clarity and
beauty. Of course, you did err in only having two space indents, everyone knows
there should be exactly _four_ spaces for the indented code <wink>.

can't-believe-we're-discussing-brace-styles-here'ly y'rs
-- bjorn



From phil at river-bank.demon.co.uk  Sun Jan 21 19:44:42 2001
From: phil at river-bank.demon.co.uk (phil at river-bank.demon.co.uk)
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 00:44:42 -0000
Subject: Blackadder - any opinions?
In-Reply-To: <JgHa6.75389$xW4.580766@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
Message-ID: <94fvpq+nn31@eGroups.com>

"Neil Hodgson" <neilh at s...> wrote:
> Boudewijn Rempt:
> > Anyway, the core components of Blackadder are good - Qt, Qt
> > Architect, PyQt, Scintilla.
> 
>    ! How do you know its Scintilla? When the announcement appeared,
I looked
> at the site and the screenshot
> http://www.thekompany.com/products/blackadder/_img/BAEditor.png
>    and while the main text part looks a lot like Scintilla, the fold
marks
> are moved to the right of their margin and hit the edge which looks
bad.
> Also there are unfixed damaged pixels to the left of the editor and
at the
> top of the margins.

It is Scintilla (thanks for some excellent code Neil).

The bugs you noticed have been fixed.

Phil




From ivnowa at hvision.nl  Fri Jan 26 10:25:31 2001
From: ivnowa at hvision.nl (Hans Nowak)
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 15:25:31 GMT
Subject: xor operator?
References: <20010126125141.18593.qmail@nw128.netaddress.usa.net> <mailman.980517875.10931.python-list@python.org> <3A7188A9.1482CA3D@divalsim.it>
Message-ID: <3A71951D.20A2@hvision.nl>

Nicola Musatti wrote:

> > Very few languages have a boolean xor operation. I don't know any off the
> > top of my head, but if I'd have to make a guess, I'd say that INTERCAL was
> > the only language I'm famialiar with, with a boolean XOR operation :)

Pascal does. I'm not sure about standard Pascal (if there is such a
thing), but Turbo Pascal did, and Delphi does today, too.

> > The simple reason is 'it isn't shortcuttable'. That is, with 'and' and 'or',
> > whether or not to evaluate the second argument is based on the outcome of
> > the first. xor requires you to always evaluate both. 

I see the difference, but I don't understand why that is a problem,
though. 

> In the specific Python
> > sense, the return value of the boolean xor operation would also be vague.

Simply 0 or 1 would be a possibility, but that is not what Python's
'and' and 'or' do. So maybe, if it evaluates to true, it returns the
'true' element; otherwise it returns 0 (like 'and' and 'or' do).

> I'd say that a more plausible reason is that for boolean values 'xor' is
> equivalent to '!='. 

Sounds reasonable to me. Still, for the sake of orthagonality, I would
expect it as the boolean counterpart to the binary xor (^). :)  Then
again, Guido is not likely to add any new keywords to the language...

--Hans Nowak
--Info Vision Europe BV


From p at mjs400.co.uk  Tue Jan 16 06:23:50 2001
From: p at mjs400.co.uk (Pete)
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 12:23:50 +0100
Subject: Python and Industry, IBM I'm afraid
References: <mailman.979631000.28993.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3A642F47.E0AE1425@mjs400.co.uk>

Thanks for putting me straight Tim. 

I have been informed that AIX binaries migrate nicely these days, and
that a port would not be too difficult to achieve as a result.
So...maybe I'll learn something.

--Pete
Tim Peters wrote:
> 
> [Pete]
> > Has anyone ported Python to IBM iSeries 400?...Or is this
> > considered too much hassle, because they are big fat trucks
> > of servers - and come bundled with no GUI support (they have
> > had posix for many years)?...Or are people waiting for Linux
> > support in a logical OS partition?...Or does no one care?
> 
> I don't know whether there are any Python ports to IBM iSeries 400, but, if
> there aren't, that would be because no IBM iSeries 400 user bothered to port
> it.  In which case, you'll have to ask them what their hangup is -- or ask
> IBM why they don't think it's worth their time to make a port available.
> Note that Intel and Microsoft cared enough to pay ActiveState for a Win64
> Python port.  So there's more than one way to get a port done, but the only
> way that's free requires a volunteer.


From hartmut at oberon.noris.de  Mon Jan 29 17:45:28 2001
From: hartmut at oberon.noris.de (hartmut Goebel)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 23:45:28 +0100
Subject: Python and postgreSQL ??
References: <slrn96uhcq.1u1.isard@localhost.localdomain> <94pdkp$b9n$1@saltmine.radix.net>
Message-ID: <16600966@oberon.noris.de>

Cary O'Brien (cobrien at Radix.Net) schrieb:

 >NB2: There are at least two Python<->PostgreSQL interfaces.  The one
 >that comes with Postgresql and one called (Get this!) PoPy.

The one coming with postgresql is very outdated (version 2.2 or so). Current
version of PyGreSQL is 3.1, which also supports DB-API 2.0.

+++hartmut


From nils.hensel at online.de  Thu Jan 18 17:32:55 2001
From: nils.hensel at online.de (Nils Hensel)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 23:32:55 +0100
Subject: I will kill my Python
References: <mailman.979852022.13720.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <947r18$rdt$1@news.online.de>

If an exe is your single concern then perhaps you should better stick with
VB.

Nils


"Bruno Schaefer" <bup.schaefer at planet-interkom.de> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:mailman.979852022.13720.python-list at python.org...
> Hi all, I have written a nice Python application with TKinter. And it
> works fine.Yes. But now I want to build an exe, but - o what ashit
> with that installer, builder, simple - confuing thing. I have spent
> many hours with blood and tears, but o what a shit, ugly shit :
> nothing works:  The end of all
> I give it up. I will kill my python. Its easier with a dummy-xy-Basic
> to make an exe as with this shit-modern-"oh what an easy nice
> language"-Python.
>
> Not with me.
>
> Yeah, python is easy and nice, the pure language, but the rest...
>
> goodby, I'am going to look for another real easy animal !
>
>
> B.Schaefer
>
>




From katz at Glue.umd.edu  Sat Jan 27 14:49:23 2001
From: katz at Glue.umd.edu (Roy Katz)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 14:49:23 -0500
Subject: . Python 2.1 function attributes
In-Reply-To: <mailman.980621252.32649.python-list@python.org>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0101271303540.3501-100000@y.glue.umd.edu>, <Pine.GSO.4.21.0101271158190.3501-100000@y.glue.umd.edu>, <Pine.GSO.4.21.0101270135190.7677-100000@y.glue.umd.edu> <mailman.980593892.725.python-list@python.org> <$5A+ZwAGjtc6EwE0@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <14962.62953.304511.523826@anthem.wooz.org> <mailman.980613639.23439.python-list@python.org> <mailman.980617472.28020.python-list@python.org> <mailman.980621252.32649.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0101271437460.3501-100000@y.glue.umd.edu>

Hello Moshe,



On Sat, 27 Jan 2001, Moshe Zadka wrote:

> [Roy Katz] 
> > what is wrong with redirection? must we wrap the output in a try:
> > anymore than wrap a standard print in a try:?
> Because if the print raises an exception, I want the stdout to be
> the old one.

Pray tell, what would you do if print to stdout raised an exception? what
would be 'the old one' in that case?  I don't think it is necessary to
wrap print statements in a try.  First off, my programming habits are such
that what is being printed has already been processed and checked for
exceptions.  Logically, the only exception which can be raised then is
from the print statement itself.  And if the system raises an exception
from "print",  then it's the system which is screwed up.  Not my
worry.  stdout, stderr and stdin are pretty much *standard*. 



> > Why stop there? if not statement>>obj, why not 
> > func>>obj? since obj's can implement __call__(self), why
> > not obj>>obj?
> 
> What has any of it got to do with telling "print" to print to some
> other file-like object rather then sys.stdout? Your reductio ad absordum
> has no logical basis.

here:  if we can print>>, why not assert>>?  if print>> and assert>> why
not extend it to other objects, so that they could output their own
messages?  Do you see my point?  it's the incremental feature requests and
changes which result in a large change.  


> > I'm only interested in why it happened at all, and how to prevent it from
> > screwing up our language further :)
> 
> But Guido has been wanting all this to happen sooner -- he just did not
> have the man power.

What concerns me is what *I* want in the language.  Because ultimately it
is Guido, you, me and others who *use* it.  


> > Let's see it! petition! vote! who wants and who doesn't?  No more of this
> > of this 'Benevolent Dictator' or 'Hey I've got a patch' garbage.  *vote*
> > and make Python not the patcher's language, not my language, and not
> > yours, but *our* language.
> 
> Why would anyone care about votes? If you have a rational argument, let's
> hear it. And if you think the Python development doesn't listen to your
> logical arguments, then you're welcome to take Python and develop it in
> a direction that suits you -- the license is quite liberal.

Let's see.  Despite *very* logical arguments against print>>, we still see
it slipped into Python.  Very much like a rider on a bill in US Congress. 
You yourself said there are many against print>>;  I find many of
those arguments rationale (on the basis that the addition of print>>
muddies the langugae).  What more argument do you need?  


> > Let's add bless().  I want to change the class of an object at
> > runtime.
> 
> You can already do this, and have been able to a long time.
> 
> foo.__class__ = new_class
> 
> Why would anyone want a new builtin for that?

Sarcasm; I apologize for not indicating as such. 


> 
> > all this when real issues like typing and making int's first-class objects
> > falls to the wayside. 
> 
> You're welcome to contribute patches.


I would much rather like to discuss it first.  That way we can decide on
it *before* someone slips it in the CVS for good. 


Roey



From andreas at andreas-jung.com  Tue Jan 16 14:51:33 2001
From: andreas at andreas-jung.com (Andreas Jung)
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 20:51:33 +0100
Subject: pmz variable in html
In-Reply-To: <93u9k7$ris$1@nnrp1.deja.com>; from tam_dominic@my-deja.com on Mon, Jan 15, 2001 at 07:41:59AM +0000
References: <93u9k7$ris$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <20010116205133.A17541@yetix.sz-sb.de>

On Mon, Jan 15, 2001 at 07:41:59AM +0000, tam_dominic at my-deja.com wrote:
> Hi,
> Cannot get the value out from pmz because I'm new to html & python.
> Could somebody tell me why I cannot get the value in the following :
> Filename : test.pmz
> 
> <html><body>
> <pmz>
> myvar = 'this test sux'
> print '==> ' + myvar
> </pmz>
> The value of myvar is : <pmzvar>myvar</pmzvar>
> </body></html>

 I have now a patch available that solves the problem when using PMZ
with restricted execution mode enabled. Please provide a valid
email address to get the patch.

Andreas



From dnew at san.rr.com  Sun Jan  7 12:59:11 2001
From: dnew at san.rr.com (Darren New)
Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2001 17:59:11 GMT
Subject: Returning the path of a file
References: <mjob5tgge328h1sj94elg4b8sldrtteeus@4ax.com> <slrn95fht6.ed.scarblac@pino.selwerd.nl>
Message-ID: <3A58AE71.95D8ED5@san.rr.com>

> What I want to add - in general it's simply not possible to do better
> than that. For instance, on Unix a file can have multiple filenames
> because of linking. Or maybe someone is changing the directory structure
> while you have the file open. Maybe the file is not actually a file on
> the harddisk, but some device.

And in Unix, the file may not even have a name at all any more, if it has
been deleted after it was opened.

-- 
Darren New / Senior MTS & Free Radical / Invisible Worlds Inc.
San Diego, CA, USA (PST).  Cryptokeys on demand.


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sat Jan 20 17:16:23 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 23:16:23 +0100
Subject: Translating a Perl script into Python
References: <vo9i6t04nhurgv2avmgoss4mg86ofcuhtv@4ax.com> <94c2as0nei@news2.newsguy.com> <heej6tcb6cukmqkcc319lasc6qiu4hqcv7@4ax.com> <1tej6tgp30shi14sgr7908f3l8vd5qkp59@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <94d2qt01teo@news2.newsguy.com>

"Sheila King" <sheila at thinkspot.net> wrote in message
news:1tej6tgp30shi14sgr7908f3l8vd5qkp59 at 4ax.com...
    [snip]
> ::> qmail = ["SENDER", "NEWSENDER", "RECIPIENT", "USER", "HOME", "HOST",
> ::"LOCAL",
> ::>     "EXT", "EXT2", "EXT3", "EXT4", "DTLINE", "RPLINE", "UFLINE"]
> ::
> ::Excellent, but perhaps closer to the original Perl might be
> ::
> ::qmail = 'SENDER NEWSENDER RECIPIENT USER HOME HOST LOCAL EXT EXT2 EXT3 \
> ::    EXT4 DTLINE RPLINE UFLINE'.split()
    [snip]
> Python 2.0 (#1, Jan 15 2001, 01:09:04)
> [GCC 2.7.2.3] on linux2
> Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> >>> qmail="SENDER RECIPIEN EXT HOST".split()
    [snip]
> Python 1.5.1 (#1, Sep  3 1998, 22:51:17)  [GCC 2.7.2.3] on linux-i386
> Copyright 1991-1995 Stichting Mathematisch Centrum, Amsterdam
> >>> import string
> >>> qmail=string.split("SENDER RECIPIENT EXT HOST")
    [snip]
> Thanks for the tips. This was one thing I felt was quite awkward about the
> Python script as compared to the original Perl script.

You're welcome -- I had suspected you would, because having to repeat
the quotes left me somewhat cold back when I was converting all of my Perl
scripts over to Python, until I thought of using string.split (back in 1.5.2
times -- with 2.0, the split method of the string is even better).


Alex





From paul.robinson at businesscollaborator.com  Thu Jan 18 13:21:17 2001
From: paul.robinson at businesscollaborator.com (Paul Robinson)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 18:21:17 +0000
Subject: python compiled to native in less than a year?
References: <kcF86.6006$J%.594457@news.flash.net> <Pine.GSO.4.21.0101151106200.7702-100000@z.glue.umd.edu> <8pF86.6015$J%.595435@news.flash.net> <0luc6toovfccbqspkvc0dkqkuc5dck7u51@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3A67341D.D5022902@businesscollaborator.com>

Tim Roberts wrote:
> 
> "scotth" <slhath at flash.net> wrote:
> >
> > Whatever the problems, ActiveState/MS
> > have/are going to over come it if my info is correct.
> 
> Where did you get your information?  Do you have a URL?

http://www.activestate.com/Products/NET/index.html
 - there's a white paper (word doc) that has some interesting stuff in
it along with general discussion of both Perl .NET and Python .NET
 
> If I understand the .NET concept correctly, any COMPILED language will be
> compiled to IL.  However, I don't think there is anything to prevent a
> language from being interpreted.

If I understand what I've just read correctly (from URL above) then as
expected, "compiling" Python to the .NET IL does not suddenly give you
an instant speed boost or even give you something that is "as compiled"
as another language. As well as your Python program there is also the
Python runtime component of this .NET stuff. The architecture involves
the Python .NET runtime running the Python interpreter and spending its
time doing the basic language operations. As stated in the white paper: 

"Not withstanding the tuning of the runtime system, the simple existence
of the runtime accounts for much of our performance problem.  When
simple arithmetic expressions take hundreds or thousands of Intermediate
Language instructions (via the Python runtime) to complete, performance
will always be a struggle."

The IL compiler is described thus:
" - IL Compiler, which uses the Reflection::Emit() object model to
create managed assemblies. A significant part of the code generated by
the compiler consists of calls to the Python .NET Runtime."

So the compiler creates .NET IL which consists of calls to the Python
.NET runtime. This, IIRC, is similar to what Python2C does, Python -> C
with calls to C api.

The fact that there is a compiler that can, via .NET IL, compile Python
to native code does not necessarily mean that any kind of performance
boost is possible without additional technology (as discussed in the
white paper) such as type inference.

As the original poster said "this means that python will be compiled" -
yes - but in a way that includes the interpreter framework - necessary
for the dynamic nature of the language and not necessarily giving a
significant performance enhancement which I presume was what was meant
by "This would give python a huge boost!"

Don't get me wrong - I'm not trying to be overly negative but I wouldn't
want people to be disappointed with what Mark et al. are doing when they
should actually be excited and pleased. The inter operability of
different languages on this platform alone sounds really cool. - Maybe
I'm just trying managing my own expectations and erring on the side of
caution.....

Paul Robinson
Business Collaborator Development Manager
Enviros Software Solutions
WWW: http://www.businesscollaborator.com



From hancock at earthlink.net  Wed Jan  3 17:59:03 2001
From: hancock at earthlink.net (Terry Hancock)
Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 14:59:03 -0800
Subject: Threads
References: <CC59868A0A76D311B1F50090277B321C1F3780@VRTMAIL>
Message-ID: <3A53AEB7.23F7DF86@earthlink.net>

Thanks for the replies so far, I'm learning a lot.

To clarify a bit -- the kind of "hang-ups" I expect
are ones which involve subtle (or in some cases,
obvious) coding errors, e.g. when a behavior goes
into an infinite loop waiting on an event which
will never happen or which will, but will simply
take too long.  The latter will probably be quite
common. In some cases this sort of behavior may
be designed in -- some behaviors might compete,
with the first one that finishes being used to get
the result.  Generally, though, it just means the
programmer hasn't thought through all possibilities
of the program (as the system gets very complex,
this may be an unreasonable development requirement,
and soft-failure is a better option than rigorous
testing -- kind of like the reason Python has
exception-handling built in).

Behaviors shouldn't be able to access
the operating system (not sure if I can enforce this,
but I'll try to at least make it difficult).

Also, someone pointed out that there is no "pthread"
in fact, I meant to refer to "thread" and "threading",
the documentation mentions "pthread" as an alternate
name for a "POSIX threading" implementation in the
OS.  Hence my confusion, sorry. Also, I'm presently
using Python 1.5.2 so I may not know about newer stuff
than that.  I guess I'll have to upgrade to use micro
threading, for example.

Mike Fletcher wrote:
> With the current uthread (micro-thread) system, you can kill a micro-thread,
> but only if you can get the scheduler code to run.  If a micro-thread hangs
> _in C code that hasn't released the Python interpreter lock_ then you can't
> kill the thread (and your whole micro-threads simulation is hosed, as the
> scheduler will not run any more).

That would be bad, but shouldn't be an issue, as there shouldn't really
be any such code used in this system. (Except for special "I/O"
behaviors
which are part of the environment and will be tested a lot harder).

> Python code in a micro-thread that's taking forever to complete (such as a
> long-running AI computation, or a thread that's blocking on a lock) can be
> killed easily using the provided methods of the thread object.

That's the capability I need.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Donn Cave
> To: python-list at python.org
> Sent: 1/3/2001 2:15 PM
> Subject: Re: Threads
> ...
> >From what I have heard of the stackless microthread system, you
> won't get the `processes that "hang up" can just be killed' part
> of what you want there, at least not for all causes of hanging up.
> Honestly, I guess you won't get it from Python threads either,
> because there is no provision in the API for killing a thread, but
> at least the process will continue, because these threads go down
> to the operating system level where the usual hanging up happens.
> ...
> 
> --
> http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

-- 
Terry Hancock
hancock at earthlink.net



From LangaK at discoveryhealth.co.za  Thu Jan 25 05:32:58 2001
From: LangaK at discoveryhealth.co.za (Langa Kentane)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 12:32:58 +0200
Subject: converting from html to pdf
Message-ID: <A69BC9CA4B39D411BF2200105A45B45B075B8CBC@dhexchange.discoveryhealth.co.za>

Greetings gurus.

I am looking for pointers on how I can covert an html file to pdf using
python.  I am new to python.  A project like this can really help get me
started.

Thanks in advance.

__________________________________________________________
Langa Kentane		| TEL: (011) 290 3218
Security Administrator	| Cell: 082 606 1515
DISCOVERY HEALTH		| http://www.discoveryhealth.co.za
__________________________________________________________________




From ommadawn at club-internet.fr  Wed Jan  3 13:03:44 2001
From: ommadawn at club-internet.fr (Christophe Prevost)
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2001 18:03:44 -0000
Subject: Sample script using MySQLdb ?
References: <92vjfd$p63$1@reader1.imaginet.fr> <mailman.978540903.4928.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <92vm12$r48$1@reader1.imaginet.fr>

"Jeff Bauer" <jbauer at rubic.com> a ?crit dans le message news:
mailman.978540903.4928.python-list at python.org...
> Christophe Prevost wrote:
> > Somebody have a quite complete script using this module?
>
> Here's a cheezy little script I use for mysql dba stuff.
> You might find it useful to get you started.  If the
> code isn't formatted correctly I can email it to you
> as an attachment.  Hope that helps.

Thank you very much!

Merci beaucoup!




From posselt at daimi.au.dk  Tue Jan 23 07:22:10 2001
From: posselt at daimi.au.dk (Peter Posselt Vestergaard)
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 13:22:10 +0100
Subject: run command as other user
Message-ID: <94jt1i$1evs$1@news.net.uni-c.dk>

Hi
Is there some way to run a shell-command from python (on Unix) as another
user (than the one running the script)?
- Peter Vestergaard




From m.faassen at vet.uu.nl  Sat Jan 13 08:08:52 2001
From: m.faassen at vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen)
Date: 13 Jan 2001 13:08:52 GMT
Subject: is Python fully object oriented ?
References: <20010110184830.13286.00000826@ng-fg1.aol.com> <3A5E5C21.3E036BFE@intelligenesis.net>
Message-ID: <93pk14$c4e$1@newshost.accu.uu.nl>

Ben Hutchison <benh at intelligenesis.net> wrote:
> Crutoy wrote:

>> Hi , i haven't used Python but i do have experience in other languages vb ,
>> java , c++ . Is Python a fully object oriented ? Thanks

> I have just been considering the same questions myself. I do have a few
> concerns with Pythons OO credentials, relative to Java/C++.

> 1. Most significantly, Python requires the "self" or "this" reference to be
> explicitly declared. This seems like a bit of a hassle if you do pure OO
> development with python; lots of typing! Suggests perhaps that OO features were
> built onto initially procedural language.

Heh, like C++? Anyway, Python used objects from the start, but the 'class'
construct was added somewhat later (though still very early on). It's
most an elegant bit of syntactic sugar put on top of a dictionary.

In C++, it's often recommended you do something along these lines:

class Foo {
   int d_bar;

   public:
      Foo(int bar);
};

Foo::Foo(int bar) {
  d_bar = bar;
}

i.e. prefix members with something like 'd_' so that they can be easily
distinguished from local variables and method arguments. This also 
makes writing constructors cleaner, as demonstrated.

In Python, all this takes rather less characters to type, you don't need
coding conventions like d_, and the class is instantly generic to boot:

class Foo:
   def __init__(self, bar):
       self.bar = bar

So, it's not a hassle; it's even less typing, and it's instantly clear
what's going on too.

[snip]
> 2. Access control is more informal in Python than C++/Java. I know in the case
> of Java at least that security provisions depend in part on access control
> being strictly enforced, and additonally there are a number of design
> principles that assume 3 tiered (public, protected, private) access levels.
> * Is Pythons leading underscore mechanism more of a convention?

Yes.

> * It is strong enough to build security mechanisms on?

Do you often need to secure your classes and objects? Anyway, yes, you
can build security mechanisms. It's a dynamic language, after all.

But what is it you really want? Security or encapsulation?

> * Can a class declare a priviledged API availalbe only to subclasses?

Probably, but I've never felt much need to find out. You can just use
the underscore convention; anything without it one is public, everything
with one is private (but accessible by all subclasses), but this is
by convention only. Two underscores and you get some name mangling to boot,
but I've usually found that more of a hassle than it's worth.

Anyway, Python's style of programming is quite different from what you
may be used to in C++ or Java. You shouldn't try to write C++ and Java
in Python. It takes some getting used to, but you may end up liking it
a lot.

Regards,

Martijn
-- 
History of the 20th Century: WW1, WW2, WW3?
No, WWW -- Could we be going in the right direction?


From sheila at thinkspot.net  Sun Jan 14 01:35:28 2001
From: sheila at thinkspot.net (Sheila King)
Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 06:35:28 GMT
Subject: File I/O, rfc822, and stdin/stdout
Message-ID: <m9b26t8f11lvfjg8a59fo8nfdcl1ro9art@4ax.com>

I'm getting really confused and frustrated here.

Ultimately, my goal is to write some scripts to handle my incoming e-mail. My
web host uses qmail as an MTA and with .qmail files I can invoke scripts to
process my mail. The scripts receive the incoming e-mail from stdin and if
they write output to stdout, that output can be delivered as the resulting
e-mail message.

Anyhow, I've started with some much simpler stuff. Some of it works, some of
it doesn't.

I'm wanting to work with the rfc822 module, for it's capabilities in handling
headers.

Here is one of my scripts:
----------------------------------------
#! /usr/bin/python

import rfc822

raw_message=open("message3.txt","r")

inheaders=rfc822.Message(raw_message)
body=raw_message.read()

print inheaders
print
print body
----------------------------------------

I run this in a DOS window on my home machine. The file "message3.txt"
contains an e-mail message (in mbox format). It seems to work fine. It reads
the message headers and the message body in separately, from a file, and then
prints them to stdout.

If I could just get them to read the message from stdin, changing the source
of the input, then this should at least pipe a message through the script on
my web host, without changing or in anyway sorting, filtering or redirecting
it.

Well, I can't seem to achieve that.

I did have one script, that worked on my web host, that I invoked from a
.qmail file:

-----------------------------------------
#! /usr/bin/python

import sys

infile = sys.stdin
text = infile.read()
print text
print "\nThis tag appended"
print
print "Python rules."
-----------------------------------------

This one worked fine. It read the incoming mail from stdin, and wrote it back
out to stdout, adding the  lines "This tag appended" and "Python rules" to the
end of the e-mail, and it was then delivered correctly.

Of course, the problem with the above script, is it doesn't give me any easy
way of handling the message headers, for filtering purposes.

So, I now tried to combine them, into a script that would be of more use to
me:
----------------------------------------
#! /usr/bin/python

import sys, rfc822

raw_message = sys.stdin

inheaders=rfc822.Message(raw_message)
body=raw_message.read()

print inheaders
print
print body
----------------------------------------

Supposedly, it should read from stdin, retrieve the headers and body
separately, and then write them to stdout. But I'm getting no e-mail
delivered.

So, then I thought I'd try to just read an e-mail, and print it to a file.

I used this script:
---------------------------------------
#! /usr/bin/python

import sys, os
input = sys.stdin
messagetext=input.read()
outfile = open("outmessage.txt", "w")
os.chmod("outmessage.txt", 0664)
sys.stdout=outfile
print messagetext
outfile.close()
---------------------------------------

I have to change the permissions in the script, because the mail script runs
with a different UserID, and then I can't read the resulting file.

Anyhow, the above script does appear to be called. The output file is created,
and the permissions are correctly set. But the file is empty.

So, I guess I'm not really reading stdin correctly, but I'm at a loss to
figure out what's wrong. I've been looking through the tutorial and the module
docs a lot today. I've even been searching on dejanews for some posts on these
topics in comp.lang.python. But I haven't been able to figure this problem
out.

--
Sheila King
http://www.thinkspot.net/sheila/
http://www.k12groups.org/



From joejava at dragonat.net  Fri Jan  5 09:20:23 2001
From: joejava at dragonat.net (Joel Ricker)
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 09:20:23 -0500
Subject: Migrating to perl?
References: <3Fa56.4580$of7.216286@news1.atl> <mailman.978670867.31055.python-list@python.org> <V%c56.4648$of7.221797@news1.atl> <BLj56.3858$XZ5.132068@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: <6Nk56.822$4Z.64804@news2.atl>

Steve Holden wrote in message ...

>But it began to seem as though almost any random string
>had meaning in Perl, and I don't have time for that sort of nonsense.


Its funny you should mention that. I wrote an entry for the Obfuscated Perl
contest that created obfuscated code from random characters.  With short
programs (about 50 characters or so) it compiled a program most of the time.

Speaking of which, saw the entries of Obfuscated Code in the FAQ.  Whats the
c.l.py equivalent of "Just Another Perl Hacker"?

>I-used-to-program-in-Perl-but-i'm-all-right-now-ly y'rs  - steve
-just-happy-that-there-is-an-alternative - Joel






From kvthan at wm.edu  Sat Jan 13 05:44:38 2001
From: kvthan at wm.edu (Kapil Thangavelu)
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 10:44:38 GMT
Subject: Where to store images for a Zope e-commerce Website
References: <93p8gr$6ni$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <qkW76.1$ag.333@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>

Remi Delon wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> I'm developing an e-commerce website in Zope. This website will handle
> tens of thousands of items. I'm using a MySql database to store all
> alphanumeric data about the items.
> I'm wondering what's the best place to store the images for those items.
> I see 3 options:


> - Either in a Zope folder (in this case, it's easy to serve those
> images from Zope. But I'm concern that ZODB might have problems to
> handle so many images in a Folder. Also, I'm limited with operations I
> can do on those images (how do I Delete ? Add ? Update ? Create
> thumbnails ?)

a regular zope folder will have problems esp. if you're doing processing on 
these records with thousands of objects. if you're just accessing them via 
an id you can scale it up but you're probably better off using the 
BTreeFolder, if you want to go this route. delete, add, and update via
dtml methods, thumbnails through PIL.

> - Either in the local filesystem. (Then it's easy to perform operations
> on those images, but less easy to serve them with Zope)

LocalFS handles this method nicely. 

> - Either in the database itself, but I don't know if the connection
> between MySql and Zope works well for raw data.

why? unless you want transaction integrity over your binary data,
which mysql doesn't support, the only thing you gain my sticking it
in the db is loss of performance and headaches.

> Anybody has any experience with this ?

the best solution would probably be to have your front end webserver
(apache, roxen, iis), which i assume you have for ssl serve up the images
directly. zope's meant to serve up dynamic content. one of these servers
will blow past it in terms of speed on purely static content like an image.

you've got another problem, you're using mysql for ecommerce.
 
i'm biased but mysql has a poor concept of both transaction support and
concurrency, two things that should be high up in the priority list for
an ecommerce site.  try another db like postgresql:)

kapil thangavelu


From fredrik at effbot.org  Sun Jan  7 17:44:28 2001
From: fredrik at effbot.org (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2001 22:44:28 GMT
Subject: shtml in python
References: <93adro$k9n$1@sunsite.icm.edu.pl> <9z366.240411$_5.53698286@news4.rdc1.on.home.com> <93algg$pdj$1@sunsite.icm.edu.pl> <mailman.978903308.1722.python-list@python.org> <93aqke$md6$1@sunsite.icm.edu.pl>
Message-ID: <gj666.4423$Qb7.632196@newsb.telia.net>

"Vesemir" wrote:
> > Configure your web server to allow the execution of CGI scripts.
> > And then include the corresponding URL of the CGI scripts
> > inside the SSI statement.
>
> Could you give me an example?

how about the example in the fine manual?

http://httpd.apache.org/docs/howto/ssi.html#includingtheresultsofacgiprogram

    <!--#include virtual="/cgi-bin/counter.pl" -->

(just replace .pl with .py)

Cheers /F




From fredrik at effbot.org  Mon Jan 29 10:47:42 2001
From: fredrik at effbot.org (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 15:47:42 GMT
Subject: Books
References: <3a757ac1$1@netnews.web.de> <hhfd6.6061$Uo2.20161@newsfeed.slurp.net> <3a757f33$1@netnews.web.de> <mailman.980781035.27107.python-list@python.org> <3a758a80@netnews.web.de>
Message-ID: <yggd6.10081$AH6.1619656@newsc.telia.net>

Volker Jahns wrote:
> It makes we wonder, that the python.org uses php for
> dynamic web pages.

what's wrong with you?




From rcameszREMOVETHIS at dds.removethistoo.nl  Wed Jan 10 21:37:35 2001
From: rcameszREMOVETHIS at dds.removethistoo.nl (Robert Amesz)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 02:37:35 GMT
Subject: [ot]  Guttral Mumblings (Re: Web devel with python. Whats the best route?)
References: <mailman.978910629.6814.python-list@python.org> <93cqvi0191h@news1.newsguy.com> <mailman.978985688.26505.python-list@python.org> <93dfft077p@news1.newsguy.com> <mailman.979000510.4052.python-list@python.org> <slrn95ltl8.45d.scarblac@pino.selwerd.nl> <93f4q7$ji4$1@newshost.accu.uu.nl> <90259B539rcamesz@127.0.0.1> <93hpsr$k1k$2@newshost.accu.uu.nl>
Message-ID: <90262FC49rcamesz@127.0.0.1>

Martijn Faassen wrote:

>Robert Amesz <rcameszREMOVETHIS at dds.removethistoo.nl> wrote:
>> Martijn Faassen wrote:
>
>>> [Snip]
>>>
>>>Dus, voorwaards met dat Nederlands!
>>       --------^-
>
>> Well, one can but hope...
>
>Een anglisme. Ik tiep ook veel Engels. :)

So I've noticed. I agree, English and Dutch have a lot of words in 
common, so it's easy to mix up the spelling of those words. (Oh, and 
it's "anglicisme", by the way, a word for which there is no such 
excuse, I'm afraid. <g>)


Robert Amesz
-- 
Avoiding the ubiquitous <wink> here: I wouldn't want anybody to think 
I'm a winker.


From dfarrell01 at earthlink.net  Sat Jan 20 00:27:08 2001
From: dfarrell01 at earthlink.net (Doug Farrell)
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 05:27:08 GMT
Subject: wyPython
Message-ID: <Mk9a6.3589$3T2.181641@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>

Hi,

I'd like to hear what people think of wyPython and any experience they've
had with it, in particular as to how it compares to useing other GUI tookits
like Tcl/Tk for instance.

Thanks,
Doug




From jerry_spicklemire at my-deja.com  Fri Jan  5 10:08:37 2001
From: jerry_spicklemire at my-deja.com (jerry_spicklemire at my-deja.com)
Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 15:08:37 GMT
Subject: Python vs. PHP (& Java?)
References: <69BC4C6AE83ED311BC9400805FA7B14AF84D52@il93exp01.css.mot.com> <mailman.978633185.3019.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <934o1f$jb0$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

  "Ben Ocean" wrote:

> Since I started this thread two weeks ago (I apologize: I knew it
> would cause problems but I just had to know...), I've come to these
> conclusions:
>
> PHP is a hacker's language. Why else would GNU choose Python to write
> Mailman, O'Reilly not publish a book on the subject, etc.?
> PHP appears to be a quick fix.

My quess is is that a couple lasting effects will come of the current
popularity that PHP enjoys, especially among Linux Webbies.

First, PHP will continue to develop, and expand it's reach.

Second, many Webbies will have discovered the power of coding to solve
very real problems with Web Development, independent of proprietary
restrictions.

Both of these are ultimately Good Things (tm). The second, though may
have the seemingly ironic side effect of leading many of the same folks
who start dabbling with programming via PHP to look for something even
more powerful, flexible, and mature. To the folks who hang out on this
list, the place to start the search is obvious. ;)

Beyond the quest to find a "better Web Language", plenty of Webbies are
coming to the conclusion that what is really needed is not just a
programming language, so they can each build everything from scratch.
That's where Zope comes in, with a wealth of built-in functionality, a
rapidly growing toolkit of ready made modules, and a community culture
that does credit to everyone involved. Reminds me a lot of, well, the
Python community!

> Python took a long time coming because good things don't happen
> overnight.
> It's clean code: the opposite of a hacker's language.

No argument here.

> Python can efficiently do round trips as good as any language most of
> the time.

By Jove, I thinks he's got it!

> I may still have to learn Java because it's robust and more popular
> (currently) than Python :(

But think how much more you'll appreciate Python afterward!

Laater,
Jerry S.


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From gst at sysfrog.org  Tue Jan 16 13:39:53 2001
From: gst at sysfrog.org (Guenther Starnberger)
Date: 16 Jan 2001 19:39:53 +0100
Subject: Python2C
Message-ID: <87hf2zpchy.fsf@nirvana.sysfrog.org>

hi,

what's the current development state with python2c? i just downloaded
the cvs version (1.0a4) and it seems to work well (at least with some
small test scripts).

the python2c homepage doesn't seem to work and the cvs version looks
rather old. is there any development - are there other
compilers/converters?

what's about the performance. i think the compiled binary still uses
the python api - are there any advantages over interpreted bytecode?

cu
/gst

-- 
sysfrog.org


From gregj at pobox.com  Mon Jan 29 18:36:36 2001
From: gregj at pobox.com (Greg Jorgensen)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 23:36:36 GMT
Subject: Python vs Ruby
References: <94mdkd$222e$1@news.adamastor.ac.za> <p6qwvbjtr97.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de> <mailman.980510622.2558.python-list@python.org> <877l3h5a29.fsf@hoyogw.netlab.co.jp> <94voh3$5nm$1@snipp.uninett.no> <9505lo$v21$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <95438n$j2f$1@tyfon.itea.ntnu.no>
Message-ID: <954uq3$oj8$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

In article <95438n$j2f$1 at tyfon.itea.ntnu.no>, "Magnus Lie Hetland"
<mlh at idi.ntnu.no> wrote:

> I know. I noticed after posting.
> (That's what you get for being cocky ;-)

I hate when that happens (to me).

> Well... I thought my version "correctly" disallowed 0 as an argument.

I wouldn't complain if you disallowed 0, but your code returns 1 for fib
(0). If you use the old definition where there is no fib(0), the
function should throw an exception. If you use the other definition
(the first hit I got when I used Google to look up fibonacci) fib(0)
should return 0. We should both throw exceptions for n < 0 (or 1 in
your case).

At least fib(0) = 0 doesn't break the sequence... fib(2)=fib(0)+fib(1)
iff fib(0) = 0.

> > And I avoid the range() call.
>
> Yes you do indeed. I guess I just dislike for-loops simulated
> by while-loops in generals <wink>, but in Python it seems it
> might actually be a good idea.

I would use a for loop if there was a form that didn't iterate over a
sequence when I just want to count from a to b. It's my years of
programming in C that prevents me from resisting the urge to decrement
a loop counter down to 0. And of course in C a for loop IS just a while
loop in fancy clothes.

> happy-to-spend-time-on-anything-useless'ly y'rs

Yeah me too.

--
Greg Jorgensen
Portland, Oregon, USA
gregj at pobox.com


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From moshez at zadka.site.co.il  Sun Jan 28 12:26:51 2001
From: moshez at zadka.site.co.il (Moshe Zadka)
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 19:26:51 +0200 (IST)
Subject: Hack request: rational numbers
In-Reply-To: <951h34$tch$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
References: <951h34$tch$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, <Pine.LNX.4.21.0101251759070.28148-100000@kev.ioc.ee>
Message-ID: <20010128172651.911CFA840@darjeeling.zadka.site.co.il>

On Sun, 28 Jan 2001 16:24:10 GMT, chaoweilun at my-deja.com wrote:

> Sorry,BTW,could anyone tell me,why the letter "j" is used
> to represent complex numbers, but not "i"?

Guido believes there should be one way to do everything, so in some
ancient time he polled the python-list, and since there were more engineers
then mathematicians, "j" won.

"j" is very common to denote the square root of -1 in engineering since
"i" denotes current.
-- 
Moshe Zadka <sig at zadka.site.co.il>
This is a signature anti-virus. 
Please stop the spread of signature viruses!
Fingerprint: 4BD1 7705 EEC0 260A 7F21  4817 C7FC A636 46D0 1BD6



From horst at proceryon.at  Thu Jan 11 04:04:34 2001
From: horst at proceryon.at (Horst Gassner)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 10:04:34 +0100
Subject: Starting application inside an application
Message-ID: <3A5D7722.2977BFE0@proceryon.at>

Hello!

Platform: Linux

What is the easiest way to launch a new application from e.g. a menu in
a running application?
Using os.system() does not work because the calling application has to
wait until the launched application has terminated.

What I want to do is simply starting a second instance of my application
(just like starting the application from the command line a second
time). I am looking for a function like spawnv() which unfortunately
only works for the windows platform.

Thank you
Horst


From paulp at ActiveState.com  Tue Jan  9 19:16:36 2001
From: paulp at ActiveState.com (Paul Prescod)
Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2001 16:16:36 -0800
Subject: mxTools (was Re: why no "do : until"?)
References: <CC59868A0A76D311B1F50090277B321C1F3795@VRTMAIL>
Message-ID: <3A5BA9E4.97F4B45F@ActiveState.com>

Mike Fletcher wrote:
> 
> .. mxTextTools can do
> that scripting using its state-transition table definitions, and as a
> result, can run the entire parsing process in C .

Cna mxTextTools work with streams without reading them all into memory?
I find it quite a pain to use hand-crafted RE-based lexers on streaming
information. 

I haven't tried this recently but if I remember correctly, the problem
is: How would I do a regexp match on "Py..n" on a 1-gigabyte file with a
fixed amount of "lookahead"? Do I have to load in chunks at a time and
then do the pattern matching across "chunk boundaries" myself? If
mxTextTools handles this, I would see that as a big advantage.

 Paul Prescod



From rickylee at americasm01.nt.com  Wed Jan 31 13:44:53 2001
From: rickylee at americasm01.nt.com (Lee, Rick)
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 13:44:53 -0500
Subject: Memory Leak Tools
Message-ID: <3A785D25.A26822@americasm01.nt.com>

Any tool to help track down memory leaks?  Thanks in advance.

- Rick Lee



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Wed Jan 10 12:12:01 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 18:12:01 +0100
Subject: new enum idiom
References: <G6qzLy.6Fo@world.std.com> <938jmh$919$1@animus.fel.iae.nl> <3A58B9C0.9F2A5CC0@collins.rockwell.com> <93an8v02d2n@news1.newsguy.com> <93dde1$8d2$1@animus.fel.iae.nl> <93f3nb023mv@news1.newsguy.com> <90259DC4Arcamesz@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <93i57b01qms@news2.newsguy.com>

"Robert Amesz" <rcameszREMOVETHIS at dds.removethistoo.nl> wrote in message
news:90259DC4Arcamesz at 127.0.0.1...
    [snip]
> >That's one possibility.  Syntax such as "bar=32" (for names in the
> >enumlist whose value is explicitly defined) being another
    [snip]
> Either way seems rather ugly to me. Why not use tuples to visually
> suggest the link between the value and the string? In this case that
> would make:
>
>  xx = enum('foo', ('bar',32), 'fee', ('fie',45), 'flip', 'flop')
>
> It also would be much easier to parse the argument list in that form.

Fine, but can't be "*much* easier" -- it's just one .split away from
the 'bar=32' proposal to ('bar','32'), after all:-).


Alex





From ehagemann at home.com  Thu Jan 11 21:30:29 2001
From: ehagemann at home.com (Eric Hagemann)
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 02:30:29 GMT
Subject: Binaries for mySQL module ?
Message-ID: <9%t76.1516$B6.336141@news1.rdc1.md.home.com>

Are there binaries for mySQLmodule for win32 available ? A quick pointer
would be appreciated






From daniels  Sat Jan  6 15:21:44 2001
From: daniels (daniels)
Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2001 20:21:44 GMT
Subject: Migrating to perl?
References: <3Fa56.4580$of7.216286@news1.atl> <933fa1$j2i$1@newshost.accu.uu.nl> <ggd56.4652$of7.222552@news1.atl> <slrn95asih.tss.scarblac@pino.selwerd.nl>
Message-ID: <3a577c3f.1136820729@news.mindspring.com>

On 5 Jan 2001 07:09:20 GMT, scarblac at pino.selwerd.nl (Remco Gerlich)
wrote:

[snip...]
>Joel Ricker <joejava at dragonat.net> wrote in comp.lang.python:

>> From your examples, Pythons class model is much cleaner.  Also if I
>> understand your example, variables internal to the object are kept
>> internal -- they can't be accessed without a proper method.

>In Python, nothing is ever private, you can always inspect and change
>everything. It's very dynamic. The programmer has the responsibility
>to decide when he wants to use the dynamic things.

Actually, that's *mostly* true but not 100%. If you have a class data
member with a name starts with two underscores, it will basically be a
"private" variable, accessible within the class, but not directy
readable outside of it. Example:

    class X:
        def __init__(self):
            self.a   = 100 # Public.
            self.__b = 200 # Private, due to the two underscores.
        def ChangeB(self, val):
	    self.__b = val # This still works fine.

    obj = X()
    print obj.a      # Prints 100
    obj.ChangeB(300) # This works fine.
    print obj.__b    # Will throw an AttributeError.

So in short, you can have private data members if you want, but from
my own experience I've learned it isn't worth my time. Part of the
Python philosophy seems to be to Keep It Simple whenver possible, and
if I want to keep a data member of a class private, well, I just don't
fiddle directly with "obj.a", is all. Hope this helps.

--
==============================
Alan Daniels
daniels at alandaniels dot com

==============================
Alan Daniels
daniels at alandaniels dot com


From ahopkins at dynacare.com  Mon Jan 22 23:38:28 2001
From: ahopkins at dynacare.com (Albert Hopkins)
Date: 22 Jan 2001 22:38:28 -0600
Subject: Complete list of Python IDEs
Message-ID: <slrn96q24u.c2s.ahopkins@ahopkins.dynacare.com>

I know there are a few open source and commercial Python-ware IDEs 
available, but does there exist a list somwhere comparing features as well 
as contact info?




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From nospam at nospam.com  Thu Jan 18 15:26:52 2001
From: nospam at nospam.com (Tom)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 20:26:52 GMT
Subject: python compiled to native in less than a year?
References: <kcF86.6006$J%.594457@news.flash.net> <Pine.GSO.4.21.0101151106200.7702-100000@z.glue.umd.edu> <8pF86.6015$J%.595435@news.flash.net> <0luc6toovfccbqspkvc0dkqkuc5dck7u51@4ax.com> <946coc130tl@news2.newsguy.com> <qcE96.8755$J%.858944@news.flash.net> <902DAF4D1jsigsat@195.3.96.116>
Message-ID: <gkI96.181292$59.48616837@news3.rdc1.on.home.com>

"Joachim Sauer" <saua at gmx.net> wrote in message
news:902DAF4D1jsigsat at 195.3.96.116...
> slhath at flash.net (scott hathaway) wrote in
> <qcE96.8755$J%.858944 at news.flash.net>:
>
> [snip a lot of good points and some debatable points]
> >
> >This is wonderful for anyone programming on Windows now, and will be
> >even more wonderful as soon as someone converts IL to native on Linux.
>
> Well, I've heard such a thing before ".NET is open, you can write an .NET
> environment for Linux! MS has changed!".
>
> Well, AFAIK IL itself is pretty easy to implement (with pretty easy I mean
> not much harder than an Java JVM), but the Problem is, that some (or let's
> say much) of the .NET Runtime Library (which is the Equivalent to the
> java.*-Packages in Java and libc.so on GNU/Linux and (dont-exactly-know-
> but-might-be-something-with-kernel.dll-and-user32.dll) on Windows. Depends
> heavily on the Win32 API (although it is never stated that you have to use
> Win32 it to implement the .NET-Library it will be _very_ hard to do
without
> it).

Some of the .NET Runtime Library will be necessary for IL, but most of it
isn't.
What I'm suggesting is that a C# compiler and an IL JIT could be implemented
on Linux, with any set of libraries.
And since some of the libraries are not standardized, this would make the
most sense.

Tom.
>
> >
> [snip]
>
> regards
> Joachim Sauer
>
> P.S.: As allways all this is AFAIK, so please correct me if you can.
>
> --
> No more ROT13, just for you ;-)




From tbryan at python.net  Sat Jan  6 08:25:11 2001
From: tbryan at python.net (Thomas A. Bryan)
Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2001 08:25:11 -0500
Subject: Migrating to perl?
References: <3Fa56.4580$of7.216286@news1.atl> <933fa1$j2i$1@newshost.accu.uu.nl> <ggd56.4652$of7.222552@news1.atl>
Message-ID: <3A571CB7.E3D51783@python.net>

Joel Ricker wrote:
> 
> I've mentioned before that I'm real new to OO.  How should I approach it in
> Python?  Has anyone learned OO just from Python?  Or should I study OO
> theory else where and then apply it to Python?  I know this is bordering on
> the question of how do I do OO but I really know very little about it...
> enough to know that I can benefit from it and basic ideas.  I understand the
> idea of a class and building objects from it but anything beyond that is
> still really new to me.  Any suggestions?

Python was the first OO language that I actually used to write programs.  
(I had already read almost half-way through _Thinking_in_Java_ at 
http://www.bruceeckel.com/TIJ2/.  While it's specific to Java, it does a 
pretty good job even in the first chapter of describing some OO concepts.)
I found that programming in Python clarified a lot of stuff that I had been 
reading about OO languages.  The complexities of C++ were gone, leaving me 
with a very stream-lined language where it was simple and fun to start 
writing some classes.  After using Python for six months, writing and 
experimenting with OO programs, I found that my Perl and C code started to 
look much nicer.  I also found that Java and C++ were much easier to learn. 

if-id(you)!=id(me)-then-YMMV-ly yours
---Tom


From tim.one at home.com  Sat Jan 20 23:46:11 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 23:46:11 -0500
Subject: Random and whrandom
In-Reply-To: <3a6a3540.1976549@news.xo.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCIECIIKAA.tim.one@home.com>

[bogus at bogus.net]
> The whrandom algorithm may not generate very good random numbers. I
> created a pair of dice objects and rolled them 10,000 times, there
> seems to be a bias against rolling the same number on both dice.

Don't spread rumors without basis.  "bias" is both objectively demonstrable
and quantifiable if it is indeed there.  Run this and check the output
against a table of chi-squared values:

def chi_sq(seen, expected):
    n = len(seen)
    if n != len(expected):
        raise ValueError("len(seen) != len(expected)")
    sum = 0.0
    for i in range(n):
        e = float(expected[i])
        sum += (seen[i] - e)**2 / e
    return sum

def roll_the_dice(numtimes, verbose=0):
    from random import randint
    count = {}
    for i in range(1, 7):
        for j in range(1, 7):
            count[i, j] = 0
    for i in xrange(numtimes):
        pair = randint(1, 6), randint(1, 6)
        count[pair] += 1
    if verbose:
        all = count.items()
        all.sort()
        for pair, n in all:
            print pair, n
    # Just compute chi-squared for the duplicates.
    return chi_sq([count[i, i] for i in range(1, 7)],
                  [numtimes / 36.] * 6)

for i in range(20):
    x = roll_the_dice(10000, i == 0)
    print "chisq =", x

Short course is that I don't get "suspicious" results any more often than I
*should* get by chance.  Note that if you were guessing by eyeball, *people*
are notoriously poor judges of randomness.  Heck, if you asked me to pick a
number at random, and I answered 42, you'd probably think that wasn't random
either <wink>.




From thomas at xs4all.net  Wed Jan 24 10:36:16 2001
From: thomas at xs4all.net (Thomas Wouters)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 16:36:16 +0100
Subject: Python Conference and Moshe's birthday
Message-ID: <20010124163616.A962@xs4all.nl>

For those of you who know Moshe Zadka and will be going to the Python
Conference early, he will be giving an early birthday celebration on the
Saturday before the conference, probably in some pub near the Hilton. We can
buy him drinks as birthday gifts :)

-- 
Thomas Wouters <thomas at xs4all.net>

Hi! I'm a .signature virus! copy me into your .signature file to help me spread!



From moshez at zadka.site.co.il  Tue Jan 16 20:43:31 2001
From: moshez at zadka.site.co.il (Moshe Zadka)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 03:43:31 +0200 (IST)
Subject: how can I get the current url
In-Reply-To: <941v5r$ubl$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
References: <941v5r$ubl$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <20010117014331.43343A828@darjeeling.zadka.site.co.il>

On Tue, 16 Jan 2001 17:08:19 GMT, rschlack at my-deja.com wrote:

> Please help.  I have 4 domains pointing to the
> same IP.  I want my index.html page to determine
> the current domain so that I can change the
> headers and footers accordingly.

I'm not sure how index.html would "determine" anything, but
the browser sends the hostname in the "Host:" header. How
to get at that depends on the technology you're using
to program index.html.

-- 
Moshe Zadka <sig at zadka.site.co.il>
This is a signature anti-virus. 
Please stop the spread of signature viruses!



From tismer at tismer.com  Sun Jan 14 20:35:57 2001
From: tismer at tismer.com (Christian Tismer)
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 02:35:57 +0100
Subject: Minor Bug-fix release for Stackless Python 2.0
Message-ID: <3A6253FD.E9B30462@tismer.com>

Wolfgang Lipp reported that Microthreads were executing
sequentially with SLP 2.0 .

The bug fix is available on the website.
Please use this new version, or microthreads will not
give you much fun.

http://www.stackless.com/spc20-win32.exe
http://www.stackless.com/spc-src-010115.zip

enjoy - chris

-- 
Christian Tismer             :^)   <mailto:tismer at tismer.com>
Mission Impossible 5oftware  :     Have a break! Take a ride on Python's
Kaunstr. 26                  :    *Starship* http://starship.python.net
14163 Berlin                 :     PGP key -> http://wwwkeys.pgp.net
PGP Fingerprint       E182 71C7 1A9D 66E9 9D15  D3CC D4D7 93E2 1FAE F6DF
     where do you want to jump today?   http://www.stackless.com



From marco at crepido.com  Thu Jan 25 01:46:52 2001
From: marco at crepido.com (Marco =?iso-8859-1?Q?Seiri=F6?=)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 07:46:52 +0100
Subject: what GUI, please advise
References: <3A6F18F2.536F27FE@crepido.com> <mailman.980360668.7701.python-list@python.org> <7DA74694B63ED42A.83CB11913E3910C5.C8BE5B392AC1AC5C@lp.airnews.net> <mailman.980378246.26304.python-list@python.org> <CDB31EB6FBE52A77.DD693053330FF80D.C9225379711276A9@lp.airnews.net> <mailman.980390128.6084.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3A6FCBDC.7C784CA2@crepido.com>

For me it seems that the finalists are Qt, wxWindows and GTK+, but I just
can't decide. I suppose I can throw a dice or something (known as "my
professional opinion is...") ;-)

BTW, it is a commercial application that I'm building, if it makes any
difference...

/M

D-Man wrote:
> 
> On Wed, Jan 24, 2001 at 05:32:30PM -0600, Cameron Laird wrote:
> | In article <mailman.980378246.26304.python-list at python.org>,
> | D-Man  <dsh8290 at rit.edu> wrote:
> | >
> | >(steering the discussion in my direction ...)
> | >
> | >What is the general feeling of GTK+ vs. wxWindows?
> |                       .
> |                       .
> |                       .
> | Does <URL:
> | http://www.sunworld.com/unixinsideronline/swol-12-2000/swol-1218-wxwindows.html
> | >
> | help?
> 
> Thanks, but I had already read it.  It was a good article, but it
> didn't talk much about how it compares against GTK+ from a
> application design point of view.
> 
> What is your personal opinion Cameron?  (You apparently have a rather
> extensive knowledge regarding toolkits and enough experience to back
> it)
> 
> -D


From ryant at thawte.com  Fri Jan 12 10:49:47 2001
From: ryant at thawte.com (Ryan Tracey)
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 17:49:47 +0200
Subject: running os commands [newbie]
References: <mailman.979287198.15620.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3A5F279B.2E45505F@thawte.com>

Hi

> I want to create a list call dfout[]
> In the list, I want to put the output of the df command.
> How do I go about doing this?  I have been trying to find this in the docs,
> no luck so far.

Something like this:

>>> import os
>>> df = os.popen('df').readlines()
>>> df
['Filesystem           1k-blocks      Used Available Use% Mounted
on\012', '/dev/hda4              5210204   2248020   2697516  46%
/\012']

Then you can go:

>>> for i in df:
...     print i
... 
Filesystem           1k-blocks      Used Available Use% Mounted on

/dev/hda4              5210204   2248020   2697516  46% /

...or whatever you might want to do ;-)

Cheers,
Ryan

--
Ryan Tracey 
Thawte Certification
South Africa


From tim.one at home.com  Mon Jan  8 04:09:26 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 04:09:26 -0500
Subject: updating idle
In-Reply-To: <3A579416.DBFE2E0D@early.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCCEFDIHAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Tom Connor]
> I'm just getting back to some programming after 20+ years.  I'd
> like to dupdate the IDLE 4.0 I now have installed with Python
> 1.5.2 to IDLE 5.0.  I've downloaded and gunzipped and untarred it.
> Where does it go?  and is there a preferred prcedure for this?

Better idea:  uninstall 1.5.2 and download Python 2.0.  1.5.2 is going on
two years old, and is no longer supported.  2.0, of course, ships with the
most recent IDLE included.  If you don't want to, though, delete the files
from your Python's Tools/idle/ subdirectory, and untar IDLE into that
directory.  Caution:  I'm not sure all the latest IDLE's features will
actually work under 1.5.2.

one-concrete-meaning-of-"unsupported"<wink>-ly y'rs  - tim




From fgleeson at my-deja.com  Mon Jan  1 19:22:02 2001
From: fgleeson at my-deja.com (fgleeson at my-deja.com)
Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2001 00:22:02 GMT
Subject: Komodo
References: <B672A66F.72CC%bobhicks@adelphia.net> <3A4D6D0B.20000@ActiveState.com> <92lrsg$2pa$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <3A4E7EFD.4090303@ActiveState.com>
Message-ID: <92r6v6$pa4$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

In article <3A4E7EFD.4090303 at ActiveState.com>,
  Mark Hammond <MarkH at ActiveState.com> wrote:

> This was added between the last "tech preview" and the most recent Thank you for your response. You were correct I was using tech preview 3 not Beta 1.

I downloaded the MSI for beta 1, but now I am having a new problem. The MSI
has an unhandled runtime error in a vb script block. If I choose to debug the
error it shows me the script and the line below so apparently the beta 1 MSI
requires Windows Scripting Host wscript.exe

-> set sh = CreateObject ("WScript.Shell")

I did not have this problem with tech preview 3, so this seems to be a new
requirement that is not in the ActiveState docs anywhere that I could find.


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Mon Jan  8 17:37:54 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 23:37:54 +0100
Subject: Web devel with python. Whats the best route?
References: <Pine.BSF.4.21.0101071733170.29753-100000@open-systems.net> <mailman.978936788.24717.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <93dfqm07la@news1.newsguy.com>

"Moshe Zadka" <moshez at zadka.site.co.il> wrote in message
news:mailman.978936788.24717.python-list at python.org...
    [snip]
> The only thing I'm pretty certain about is that PyApache has been
superseded
> by mod_apache. Other then that, all have strong points, so you should pick

I know I'm confused, but, isn't mod_apache some other Apache
module (that, I think, has something to do with configuring the
webserver itself)?  How does it supersede PyApache?  Tx for
clarifications on this...!


Alex





From bbhaydon at bigpond.com  Fri Jan 12 21:46:21 2001
From: bbhaydon at bigpond.com (Brett Haydon)
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 13:46:21 +1100
Subject: Web devel with python. Whats the best route?
References: <93cqvi0191h@news1.newsguy.com> <mailman.978910629.6814.python-list@python.org> <mailman.978975978.19612.python-list@python.org> <spenrose-E755EB.22423209012001@news.dnai.com> <93hfp1013sm@news2.newsguy.com> <spenrose-149DD9.22095710012001@news.dnai.com>
Message-ID: <QbP76.2133$65.13786@newsfeeds.bigpond.com>

It's great to see people using templating systems rather than ASP/JSP/PSP
style tags.
I think that separating html from python is the right thing in the long run
if someone has
to alter your pages.

There are probably several ways to implement loops in your documents. I've
chucked
in mine for good measure:

> >     <TR> <TD><B>@i@</B></TD> <TD>@results[i]@</TD> </TR>
> > -
> 1) There is an irreducible need to either put Python statements into
> HTML or HTML tidbits into Python. You've chosen the former; my
> preference is for the latter:
>
> localList = []
> row = '<TR> <TD><B>%s</B></TD> <TD>%s</TD> </TR>'
> for i in range(len(results)):
>    localList.append(row % (i, results[i]))
> rows = string.join(localList, '')
> print myTemplate % {'rows':rows}

I played around with the templating part of HTMLgen (sorry can't remember
the url),
and found that with a couple of  minor modifications you can generate
looping elements as follows:

1) a substitution tag is embedded in html as {somevar}

2) a repetitive element is embedded in the html page as
<html>
<body> etc
<table>
{somevar}
<!--{someloop}Begin-->
<tr>
    <td>{var}</td>
</tr>
 <!--{someloop}End-->
</body>
</html>
3) Code is something like:

page = AutoTemplateDocument('somepage.html')
row = StringTemplate(page['someloop'])
output = ''
for element in datarows:
      row['var'] = element
      output += str(row)
page.substitutions = {'row':output,'somevar':whatever}
page.write() -- writes to stdout

The main alteration I made to HTMLgen is the way it substitutes.
1) The begin/ end repetitive elements are inserted by hand.
2) If a tag has no substitution it will be removed from the output to
prevent users seeing tags.

4) You could theoretically expand this to include code in the page
but I have to question to need to embed unless you can combine your
favourite
html editor with your favourite python editor, and even then you'll still
end up with
spaghetti code.

Combining Template Substitution with mod python makes for very fast pages...

regards,

Brett Haydon
bbhaydon at bigpond.com






From SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk  Fri Jan 12 04:13:44 2001
From: SBrunning at trisystems.co.uk (Simon Brunning)
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 09:13:44 -0000
Subject: is Python fully object oriented ?
Message-ID: <31575A892FF6D1118F5800600846864D5B16E6@intrepid>

> From:	Issac Trotts [SMTP:trotts at mit.edu]
> 
> I don't know if this helps, but it's perfectly legal to use a name other
> than "self" in Python, e.g.,
> 
> class SpamChunk:
>   def __init__(s):
>     s.color = 'green'
> 
 
It's also legal never to wash, but you won't make many friends that way,
either.

Cheers,
Simon Brunning
TriSystems Ltd.
sbrunning at trisystems.co.uk




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From rzilavec at tcn.net  Thu Jan 18 23:03:04 2001
From: rzilavec at tcn.net (Richard Zilavec)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 04:03:04 GMT
Subject: This is my first program in Python
References: <3a66a585.268350144@news.tcn.net> <946cob030tl@news2.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <3a68b654.338200382@news.tcn.net>

On Thu, 18 Jan 2001 09:32:27 +0100, "Alex Martelli"
<aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote:

>"Richard Zilavec" <rzilavec at tcn.net> wrote in message
>news:3a66a585.268350144 at news.tcn.net...
>    [snip]
>> import string
>> file = open("/tmp/globs", 'r')
>> for line in file.readlines():
>>         (first,second) = string.split(line,':',1)
>>         print first
>> file.close()
>
>Looks fine to me -- you can omit the parentheses around first, second in
>the loop body's first line, but it should accept them if you insist on
>using them.  What problem is this giving you?

Sorry, it worked as expected, I was just looking for pointers, like
the parentheses.

>In this specific case, please note that .readlines() returns ALL
>of the lines in the file as one list, so, even with assignment
>inside expression, this would not work; you probably want to use
>.readline() [NO trailing s], which, each time it's called, returns
>the 'next' line ('' when there are no more lines -- and this is
>the only result from .readline() that will test as 'false', since
>all other lines have, at least, their ending '\n', and non-empty
>strings test as 'true').

I was not aware of readline()...  my book does not mention it.  I
tested readline() versus readlines(), very true, readlines() creates
an array, however 
for line in file.readline():
gets an error
Traceback (innermost last):
  File "./python.py", line 6, in ?
    first,second = string.split(line,':',1)
ValueError: unpack list of wrong size

When using readlines with a for statement, do all the lines in
/tmp/globs get placed into file.readlines(), or does it loop for each
line read?  Hope that makes sense. 

--
 Richard Zilavec
 rzilavec at tcn.net


From gherman at darwin.in-berlin.de  Thu Jan 18 05:17:56 2001
From: gherman at darwin.in-berlin.de (Dinu Gherman)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 11:17:56 +0100
Subject: How to modify ID3 tags in MP3 files?
Message-ID: <3A66C2D4.96091726@darwin.in-berlin.de>

Hello,

given that quite some entries in www.CDDB.com contain typos
or plain wrong classifications of individual files and there
seem to be no ways of correcting their database I'm wondering
if the id3 Python script or a variant thereof could also be
used to modify them? 

You're right, probably I could have found out myself by look-
ing into the code, but I've just finished a major hard- and
software system upgrade on my laptop and don't quite have 
the time to spend on that. In any case I'm grateful to some-
one who knows!

Regards,

Dinu

-- 
Dinu C. Gherman
................................................................
"The only possible values [for quality] are 'excellent' and 'in-
sanely excellent', depending on whether lives are at stake or 
not. Otherwise you don't enjoy your work, you don't work well, 
and the project goes down the drain." 
                    (Kent Beck, "Extreme Programming Explained")


From michael at stroeder.com  Sat Jan 13 09:04:54 2001
From: michael at stroeder.com (Michael =?iso-8859-1?Q?Str=F6der?=)
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 15:04:54 +0100
Subject: Using Python SSL
References: <93nt06$4eu$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <3A5F8255.55F71A1D@stroeder.com> <93o4v4$bic$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <3A606086.82951787@stroeder.com>

Gavin Cooper wrote:
> 
> I've figured out that my client does
> indeed work, but my server does not. s_client ends with this error
> trying to connect to the Python SSL "server":
> 
> 3722:error:140770FC:SSL routines:SSL23_GET_SERVER_HELLO:unknown
> protocol:s23_clnt.c:460:

Hmm, this maybe means that s_client tries to negotiate SSLv3 but the
server does not have or allow it.

Try fiddling with the following options of openssl s_client:
 -ssl2         - just use SSLv2
 -ssl3         - just use SSLv3
 -tls1         - just use TLSv1
 -no_tls1/-no_ssl3/-no_ssl2 - turn off that protocol

You have to define somewhere on your server side which SSL versions
are accepted. Please keep us informed. I'm very much interested in
seeing a SSL server example. (I'm currently using M2Crypto for
that.)

Ciao, Michael.


From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Jan  1 03:00:56 2001
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 01 Jan 2001 03:00:56 -0500
Subject: why no "do : until"?
References: <92jj3j$ff7$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <92m9pm$d19$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <B3z36.122$9s1.18804@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com> <3A4EC5B1.8912E571@engcorp.com> <x8G36.156$9s1.31209@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com> <3A4F4B4D.ECD6B172@engcorp.com> <3A4F9CFA.89C35032@iit.demokritos.gr>
Message-ID: <3A503938.8152EA58@engcorp.com>

Vassilis Virvilis wrote:
> 
> Peter Hansen wrote:
> > while (1)
> >    {
> >    T = f();
> >    if (T < 25)
> >        break;
> >    }
> >
> > Use of that convention is probably what has made me quite happy with
> > Python's indentation style, which essentially matches this pattern.
> 
> I am writing C like this also. Should we form a club or something? :)

Alas, I believe we're in such a minority our cause is hopeless (though
well defended by, for example, Code Complete).  It's rare to find an
editor or formatter which even admits to the existence of such a style.

My solution was simple: code in Python.  Problem solved.  :-)


From lisowski.tomasz at sssa.NOSPAM.com.pl  Wed Jan 31 01:25:54 2001
From: lisowski.tomasz at sssa.NOSPAM.com.pl (Tomasz Lisowski)
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 07:25:54 +0100
Subject: Tkinter: button image not displayed!?
References: <956h9g$5gl$1@news.tpi.pl> <95744c$j00$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <958b1b$dru$1@news.tpi.pl>

U?ytkownik "John Grayson" <johngrayson at home.com> napisa? w wiadomo?ci
news:95744c$j00$1 at nnrp1.deja.com...
> In article <956h9g$5gl$1 at news.tpi.pl>,
>   "Tomasz Lisowski" <lisowski.tomasz at sssa.NOSPAM.com.pl> wrote:
>
> ## ------  the problem  lies somewhere below -------
> Button(fr, image=PhotoImage(file="H:\\Back.gif", master=fr), command =
> f).grid(row=0, column=3, padx=2)
> Button(fr, text="Add", width=7, command=f).grid(row=1, column=0, padx=2)
> Button(fr, text="Walk", width=7, command=f).grid(row=1, column=1,
> padx=2) Button(fr, text="Exit", width=7,
> command=master.destroy).grid(row=1, column=2, padx=2)
> Button(fr, image=PhotoImage(file="H:\\Forward.gif", master=fr), command
> = f).grid(row=1, column=3, padx=2)
> fr.grid(row=0, column=4, rowspan=2, sticky=E, pady=4)
> >
> >
>
> Yes, it does!
>
> You have to keep the image you create aroung, so that
> it does not go out of scope and get garbage-collected: fix the code
> something like this:
>
> img1 = PhotoImage(file="H:\\Back.gif", master=fr)
> Button(fr, image=img1, command = f).grid(row=0, column=3, padx=2)
>
> Button(fr, text="Add", width=7, command=f).grid(row=1, column=0, padx=2)
> Button(fr, text="Walk", width=7, command=f).grid(row=1, column=1,
>        padx=2)
> Button(fr, text="Exit", width=7,
>        command=master.destroy).grid(row=1, column=2, padx=2)
> img2 = PhotoImage(file="H:\\Forward.gif", master=fr)
> Button(fr, image=img2, command = f).grid(row=1, column=3, padx=2)
>
> fr.grid(row=0, column=4, rowspan=2, sticky=E, pady=4)
>
>   John

Thanks, John, now it works fine.

BTW, don't you guys find it strange, that all widgets are registered in
their parents, when they are created (so that I don't need to keep another
variable to reference them to keep them away from the garbage collector),
but the images seem to be an exception here.

I was so sure, that the image instance MUST be registered within the Button
(so that it does not get garbage collected)! If it is not, I wonder, how the
Button knows, which image to display!?

Tomasz Lisowski




From mspiggie at my-deja.com  Fri Jan 26 12:10:08 2001
From: mspiggie at my-deja.com (mspiggie at my-deja.com)
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 17:10:08 GMT
Subject: removing duplicates from .csv files
References: <94ptre$uf0$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <94sb17$pa$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

In article <94ptre$uf0$1 at nnrp1.deja.com>,
  mspiggie at my-deja.com wrote:
> I have been given several comma-delimited (.csv) files, each
containing
> as many as several thousand lines of entries.  Among the tasks I've
> been charged with is to remove duplicate entries.  The files each
> contain fields for Contact Name, Company Name, Phone Number, and
> Address, among other fields, which vary from file to file.
>
> I'm trying to determine a good way to sort for duplicates according to
> Phone Number and according to Address.  It seems that sorting by Phone
> Number would be simpler due to minor differences in the way data entry
> clerks might have input the addresses (W, W., and West, for instance),
> but not all entries have phone numbers.
>
> I have already come up with some code to work around most of the
> obvious problems with the different ways addresses may be input, but
> I'm not sure what the best way to sort for duplicates might be.  One
> suggestion I have received is to have lines with identical fields
> placed back to back with an equivalence check and manually read
through
> the file.  The equivalence check itself seems simple, but I'm not sure
> how to scan only the target field (split(), maybe?), and I certainly
> want to avoid having to manually remove the duplicates afterward.
>
> Has anyone already worked out a good approach?
>
> TIA,
> Rob Andrews

So far I've received several bits of input on this, so thanks to all
parties (and of course keep it coming ;-> ).  The suggestions thus far
seem to involve combinations of manual labor, Perl, MySQL, Excel, and
Unix commands.  This makes me even more determined to develop as much
of the solution as I can in Python and open the source for others to
use later on in similar situations.  I don't know how much of it I'll
pull off in time for my project deadline, but maybe I can pull it off
in time for some random stranger's deadline later on.

who-needs-sleep-ly y'rs,
Rob


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From dsh8290 at rit.edu  Fri Jan  5 21:55:17 2001
From: dsh8290 at rit.edu (D-Man)
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 21:55:17 -0500
Subject: How robust is Python ?
In-Reply-To: <20010106031748.BF2CDA84F@darjeeling.zadka.site.co.il>; from moshez@zadka.site.co.il on Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 05:17:48AM +0200
References: <9354f9$vbi$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <LOBBJMHOIFOLFIPFANHJAEJFCHAA.zope@TheWebsons.com> <mailman.978716227.31692.python-list@python.org> <9354f9$vbi$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <20010106031748.BF2CDA84F@darjeeling.zadka.site.co.il>
Message-ID: <20010105215517.B1264@westsidecnc.rh.rit.edu>

On Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 05:17:48AM +0200, Moshe Zadka wrote:
| On Fri, 05 Jan 2001 18:40:41 GMT, rturpin at my-deja.com wrote:
| 
| Have a every-minute cron which resurrects it if it isn't up? That
| means you're as stable as either Python or the OS infrastructure,
| whichever is better.

You mean whichever is worse.  Suppose python is the better one (it
might be running on Windows) and some other app is misbehaving with
the multitasking.  Windows will give you the infamous
blue-screen-of-death even though there is nothing wrong with python or
your app.  You can't be more stable than the system even though the
interpreter is really good.

-D




From kpmurphy at my-deja.com  Wed Jan 24 16:18:27 2001
From: kpmurphy at my-deja.com (Keith Murphy)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 21:18:27 GMT
Subject: sockets: client dies...
References: <94kmt5$cuj$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <94ksfl$r2a$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <94ngqn$rph$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

actually, it's set to non-blocking.

::keith

In article <94ksfl$r2a$1 at nntp6.u.washington.edu>,
  Donn Cave <donn at u.washington.edu> wrote:
> Quoth Keith Murphy <kpmurphy at my-deja.com>:
> | what can you do when the client dies in a client/server socket
> | relationship?  currently, my problem is that the server doesn't know
> | when a client has terminated unexpectedly.  is there any way to do
so?
>
> Ideally, that will close the socket.  If that happens, then the
> socket becomes "readable" - that is, a recv() will return immediately
> without blocking, returning '' (empty string.)   (I'm assuming the
> socket is blocking, per default.)
>
> I don't know any way to tell the difference between "closed" and "has
> data", prior to calling recv().  But you can tell the difference
between
> readable and "would block" prior to recv(), with select().
>
> If the client dies and the socket doesn't close, then it may be worth
> while to figure out why it doesn't.
>
> 	Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu
>


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From teyc at bigfoot.com  Wed Jan 24 00:42:43 2001
From: teyc at bigfoot.com (Chui Tey)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 15:42:43 +1000
Subject: Hibernating python programs?
Message-ID: <94lq4c$ooc$1@bunyip.cc.uq.edu.au>

Just wondering aloud, if it is possible to hibernate running python scripts
by pickling all the elements in the main namespace. and then by some magic
save the position of the instruction pointer. Resurrecting the script can
then take place by a similar process in reverse.

Application of this technique:

In workflow programs, where business logic take days or weeks to wait for
the next event to fire, if we can save the state of the script, we can:

a) resurrect scripts in the event of a power failure
b) move running scripts to a different machine
c) notify a rule engine of events which it is interested in, then hibernate.
The rule engine can then wake up the hibernating script using a callback.




From quinn at quetzal.ugcs.caltech.edu  Sun Jan 21 03:10:43 2001
From: quinn at quetzal.ugcs.caltech.edu (Quinn Dunkan)
Date: 21 Jan 2001 08:10:43 GMT
Subject: Translating a Perl script into Python
References: <vo9i6t04nhurgv2avmgoss4mg86ofcuhtv@4ax.com> <mr3k6ts2pcnpdgt0a2raln8972r19gknbn@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <slrn96l6c3.9u2.quinn@quetzal.ugcs.caltech.edu>

On Sat, 20 Jan 2001 22:40:07 GMT, Sheila King <sheila at spamcop.net> wrote:
>And now for a question about exceptions:
>I was searching the archives of the Tutor mailing list at Python.org and found
>a message that addressed exactly this topic.
>
>My understanding, now, of this situation (someone please confirm this):
>Perl's "die" statement basically causes the program to exit.
>Python, on trying to open the file, will throw an exception if the file is not
>able to be opened, and the program will automatically halt (or "die") if I do
>nothing to handle the exception. Also, it will print an appropriate error
>message to stderr without my doing anything special to cause that.
>
>If I wanted the program to not "die", I would have to handle the exception
>somehow. The point is, this script is so short, and relies on the file being
>opened when the script is invoked, if it cannot do so, the only appropriate
>course of action at that point is to halt execution of the script.

I agree entirely.  Another way to think of it is that the default perl thing
to do is to continue silently unless you explicitly put in error handling code
(of course, it usually can't continue for long before it hits something it
really can't ignore), while the python default is exactly the opposite.

The other thing to realize about exceptions is that they propagate.  If an
exception is thrown by a function that is not surrounded by try/except, it
will jump out of the current function, and see if *that* function is
surrounded by try/except.  If not, it will jump up again, until it either
encounters a try/except or gets to the top level of the script.  If it makes
it to the top, it prints the traceback and the script exits.  Another way to
think about it is that your whole script is surrounded by an invisible

try:
    <script here>
except: # plain except catches everything
    import traceback
    traceback.print_exc()

The idea behind this is that you can put all your error-handling in one place:

def main():
    try:
        data = read_data_files()
    except IOError, e:
        print 'There was a problem reading data:', e
        print 'Faking some up...'
        data = fake_data()
    ...

def read_data_files():
    r = []
    for fname in glob.glob('*.data'):
        r.extend(open(fname).readlines())
    f = open('index')
    return index_data(parse_index(f), r)


So if any of the open()s fails, or if a readlines() fails because of a corrupt
disk or something, the code will properly report and handle it.  You don't
need to surround each function that could possibly have a problem with error
handling code, and you don't have to worry that maybe you forgot one.  And you
don't have to figure out some special value read_data_files() should return if
something it called failed.  Remember the rule of thumb: detect errors at a
low level, handle them at a high level.  If read_data_files() did its own
error handling and exited whenever there was a problem, it would become less
reusable because the calling function might want to decide whether 'no data
files' is fatal or not.  If read_data_files() didn't do its own
error-handling, but didn't return a special value, well, that could be bad.
And if read_data_files() did error checking and did return a special value...
well, that's an exception, and python does that for you.

And exceptions aren't just limited to errors, they work nicely for many
exceptional situations.  Suppose you have a list of things to discuss with the
user and deal with.  At any point in the discussion, the user can decide to
skip this item and handle it later.  The discussion can get highly involved,
invoking many function which invoke other functions, but if the user decides
to skip it, you have to jump all the way back up out of the conversation:

class SkipItem(Exception):
    def __init__(self, reason_skipped):
        self.reason_skipped = reason_skipped

def deal_with_issues(issues):
    issues_left = []
    for item in issues:
        try:
            what_to_do = discuss(item)
            what_to_do.do_it()
        except SkipItem, e:
            print 'Skipping', item
            issues_left.append((item, e.reason_skipped))
    return issues_left

def discuss(item):
    ...
    <lotsa code>
    ...


And if unhandled, exceptions simply provide nice automatic error messages, as
you noted.

Another fun trick is to wrap your long-running python program in:

try:
    main()
except:
    exc = sys.exc_inf()
    mail_error(exc) # tell me the program crashed
    # or beep a pager if I have one and enjoy getting beeped at every
    # hour of the day, or turn on the siren and red strobe lights
    # downstairs, or...
    dump_state(exc) # save variables to a file for autopsy
    # it would be nice if one could simply pickle the program and later open
    # it up with pdb...
    sys.exit(1)


From nils at hhk.de  Wed Jan 17 04:03:17 2001
From: nils at hhk.de (Nils Hensel)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 10:03:17 +0100
Subject: parsing a file [newbie]
References: <mailman.979720698.24494.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <943n4l$cb1ks$1@ID-59026.news.dfncis.de>

import os
my_command = "/whatever/you/like"
open ("output", "w").write (os.popen (my_command).read())
y = open ("output").read().split() [2]

Hope this works, I haven't tried it. This is quick and dirty though, better
implement some error checking.

Nils


"Langa Kentane" <LangaK at discoveryhealth.co.za> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:mailman.979720698.24494.python-list at python.org...
> How do I read a file.
> This is what I want to do.
> Run a command using os.popen and store the file info that it returns to x
> Open file x and read the contents.[ contents of x will be a mount output.]
> Go to the third column of the mount output and and store in y
>
> How would I go about doing this.
>
> __________________________________________________________
> Langa Kentane | TEL: (011) 290 3218
> Security Administrator | Cell: 082 606 1515
> DISCOVERY HEALTH | http://www.discoveryhealth.co.za
> __________________________________________________________________
>
>




From cfelling at iae.nl  Sat Jan  6 21:18:57 2001
From: cfelling at iae.nl (Carel Fellinger)
Date: 7 Jan 2001 03:18:57 +0100
Subject: new enum idiom
References: <G6qzLy.6Fo@world.std.com>
Message-ID: <938jmh$919$1@animus.fel.iae.nl>

Will Ware <wware at world.std.com> wrote:
...
> and I would have used this except that I had too many values to count
> conveniently. Also I wanted to keep around string versions of the enum
> names, for __repr__ purposes. So I hit upon this idiom:

> class MidiEvent:

>     typeNames = [
>         "NOTE_ON", "NOTE_OFF", "POLYPHONIC_KEY_PRESSURE", "CONTROLLER_CHANGE",
>         # dozens and dozens more...
>         ]

>     # build an enum, this is done once when the module is imported
>     # locals() gives the namespace for this class, so they become
>     # class attributes

According to the docs locals() returns dicts that are ment to be
read-only:( So you'll have to spell it out.  Unfortunately __dict__ is
unnown at this moment, so is MidiEvent.  Simply postpone it till after
the class definition of MidiEvent is finished.

Classs MidiEvent:
    typeNames = ["NOTE_ON", "NOTE_OFF", "...

i = 0
for t in MidiEvent.typeNames:
    MidiEvent.__dict__[t] = i

And inspired by Alex's recent contribution for parsing possibly
`valued' command-line like options you could easily enhance this
enumeration idiom to deal with things as enum (a, b=2, c, d=4).


def enum(C, *args, **keys):
    '''Create and enumerate to your hearts delight,
       C is the class that wants enumerations,
       *args is a sequence of enumeration names, possibly interleaved
          with values that override the default value by specifying
          the value for the directly preceding enum name.
       **keys is a hack to allow to override the default name (enumRepr)
          for the dict used to store the reverse mapping from enum
          value to enum string
    '''
    i, enumRepr = -1, {}   # i is the value of the last added enum
    for x in args:
        if type(x) == type(""):
            i += 1
            C.__dict__[x], enumRepr[i] = i, x
        elif x>i:
            C.__dict__[enumRepr[i]], enumRepr[x] = x, enumRepr[i]
            del enumRepr[i]
            i = x
        elif x<i:
            raise ValueError, "Enumeration value out of bound"
    C.__dict__[keys.get(enumRepr, "enumRepr")] = enumRepr


Class MidiEvent:

    def __repr__(self):
        r = ("<MidiEvent %s blah blah blah" %
             (self.enumRepr[self.type], blah, blah, blah))
        # other info
        return r + ">"

enum(MidiEvent,
     "NOTE_ON", "NOTE_OFF", 3, "POLYPHONIC_KEY_PRESSURE", "CONTROLLER_CHANGE")


> --
> import string,time,os;print string.join((lambda x:x[:10]+x[8:])(map(
> lambda x:string.center("*"*(lambda x:((x<24) ### Seasons Greetings, Will Ware
> *(x-3))+3)(x),24),range(1,28, 2))),"\n") ################ wware at world.std.com

And the best wishes to you too.  (you know that in Holland the sixth
of jan. is taken to be the day that your christmas tree has to vanish:)
-- 
groetjes, carel


From nospam at ktgroup.co.uk  Thu Jan 18 06:36:27 2001
From: nospam at ktgroup.co.uk (Pat Knight)
Date: 18 Jan 2001 11:36:27 +0000
Subject: gettings mounted file systems [newbie]
References: <A69BC9CA4B39D411BF2200105A45B45B075B8C44@dhexchange.discoveryhealth.co.za> <20010117161413.E3B19A828@darjeeling.zadka.site.co.il> <mailman.979743979.7152.python-list@python.org> <3A65A7CA.DE46B22@boi.hp.com>
Message-ID: <u66jdnlc4.fsf@ktgroup.co.uk>

Bill Anderson <anderson at boi.hp.com> writes:
> How about parsing the mount command? I believe most mount
> implementations under various unices and variants will report what is
> mounted where. As to each of them possibly (probably) reporting
> different information along with it (and/or in a different format), you
> could handle that by testing fo ros type just prior, and calling the
> appropriately coded test.

In the way of these things, I needed to find the mount points in one of our
apps the other day. Here's the extracted code with some documentation. I
decided to parse /etc/mtab (on Linux) and /etc/mnttab (on Solaris and HP-UX)
as the file formats were more common than the output of the mount command.
Also, the mount command generates extra cruft for the benefit of human readers.

If any of you finds the attached code useful, feel free...

Cheers,
        Pat
-------------- next part --------------
An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed...
Name: mounts.py
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20010118/2a325116/attachment.ksh>

From cpsoct at my-deja.com  Sat Jan 13 09:29:57 2001
From: cpsoct at my-deja.com (cpsoct at my-deja.com)
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 14:29:57 GMT
Subject: How To Think Like A Computer Scientist
References: <mailman.978792246.18973.python-list@python.org> <m3u27ca3ny.fsf@geog.ubc.ca>
Message-ID: <93pop2$gvo$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

I noticed that the .pdf version of the book and the online version of
the book don not match. Is the .pdf converted from an older edition?
The URL given in this thread leads what appears to be a newer version.
I would love to know what the differences are so i can print out only
what has been changed. Is there a version history of this book? or
edition numbers?


In article <m3u27ca3ny.fsf at geog.ubc.ca>,
  Phil Austin <phil at geog.ubc.ca> wrote:
> Nirina Raseliarison <raseliar at dts.mg> writes:
>
> > Hi All,
> >
> > Can you point to me another URL for the Python version?
> > This one, I found in the archive:
> > http://www.elkner.net/obp/thinkCS/thinkCSpy/index.htm
> > seems to be broken now.
> > Thanks in advance for your help
> > Nirina
> >
>
> I've converted the web pages to pdf format at:
>
> http://www.geog.ubc.ca/~phil/courses/think.html
>
> Regards, Phil
>


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Thu Jan 11 04:52:34 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 10:52:34 +0100
Subject: new enum idiom
References: <G6qzLy.6Fo@world.std.com> <938jmh$919$1@animus.fel.iae.nl> <3A58B9C0.9F2A5CC0@collins.rockwell.com> <93an8v02d2n@news1.newsguy.com> <93dde1$8d2$1@animus.fel.iae.nl> <93f3nb023mv@news1.newsguy.com> <90259DC4Arcamesz@127.0.0.1> <93i57b01qms@news2.newsguy.com> <fC576.21284$ge4.9901878@news2.rdc2.tx.home.com>
Message-ID: <93jvs00gt4@news1.newsguy.com>

"Rainer Deyke" <root at rainerdeyke.com> wrote in message
news:fC576.21284$ge4.9901878 at news2.rdc2.tx.home.com...
    [snip]
> > >  xx = enum('foo', ('bar',32), 'fee', ('fie',45), 'flip', 'flop')
> > >
> > > It also would be much easier to parse the argument list in that form.
> >
> > Fine, but can't be "*much* easier" -- it's just one .split away from
> > the 'bar=32' proposal to ('bar','32'), after all:-).
>
> The problem with 'bar=32' is that it cannot be interleaved with unnumbered
> args:
>
> >>> enum('foo', bar=32, 'fee')
> SyntaxError: non-keyword arg after keyword arg

Quotes vs metaquotes confusion -- I did mean 'bar=32', complete
with quotes (which is why I mentioned .split), not without (as
a keyword-argument).


Alex





From neilh at scintilla.org  Sat Jan 27 16:15:23 2001
From: neilh at scintilla.org (Neil Hodgson)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 21:15:23 GMT
Subject: Strange Python 2.1 return style (was Re: . Python 2.1 function attributes)
References: <mailman.980593892.725.python-list@python.org> <3A72E786.BCBD13C7@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <LTGc6.87593$xW4.671128@news-server.bigpond.net.au>

Tim Peters wrote:
> [Roy Katz]
> ...
> > It seems to me even kludgier than print>>.
>
> Barry also added code to Python 2.1 to let you write, e.g.,
>
>     def f() >> x:
>         x = 1
>         y = 2

   Even though Tim was <wink>ing, I think there is some value here.

   Not so necessary in the above but I'd like it to be easy to see what is
being returned in complex tuples from functions like os.stat:

>>> os.stat("c:\\autoexec.bat")
(33279, 0, 2, 1, 0, 0, 27, 980627178, 944531984, 944229948)

   The argument list describes the inputs, but not the outputs:
def stat(path):
   could be

def stat(path) >> (mode, ino, dev, nlink, uid, gid, size, atime, mtime,
ctime):
   although putting the output description on the left would be better as it
mirrors the calling pattern
def (mode, ino, dev, nlink, uid, gid, size, atime, mtime, ctime) stat(path):

   Its unlikely that this will be embraced due to the already mentioned
difficulty in ensuring that the value returned does match the def statement,
although it could at least be checked for length by the compiler or runtime.

   IDEs such as PythonWin provide calltips with this information when you
are constructing a call. They do this by looking for a __doc__ convention.
The information needs to be present somewhere in the code documentation, so
making it a part of the def statement does not add to code bulk. It allows
simpler use (os.stat.__returns__) than trying to parse a doc string that may
or may not follow a convention.

   Neil




From yves.rouquier at wanadoo.fr  Wed Jan 24 14:58:26 2001
From: yves.rouquier at wanadoo.fr (yves.rouquier)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 20:58:26 +0100
Subject: python and parrallele port !
Message-ID: <94nc64$de9$1@wanadoo.fr>

hello !
Can i command electronic card on parrallele port in python ?
Bye !




From jhorSPAMBGONneman at wanadoo.fr  Sun Jan 28 02:49:53 2001
From: jhorSPAMBGONneman at wanadoo.fr (Jurie Horneman)
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 08:49:53 +0100
Subject: BUG? Python 2.0 chokes on international characters in Unicode strings
Message-ID: <958g0k$f97$1@wanadoo.fr>

I've checked the FAQ and the buglist, but I couldn't find anything on this.

I was doing some COM programming with Python 2.0 on Windows 2000 yesterday.
I retrieved some Unicode strings containing international characters: e
accent grave, c accent circonflex, that kind of thing (I live in France).
Printing these strings raised a Unicode exception. Some investigation showed
that the exception was raised when trying to print the international
characters. Replacing them by some dummy character "solved" the problem: the
strings printed fine.

It's odd: I've seen French COM error messages printed by Python. The
international characters were not printed correctly ('u/351'), but at least
it didn't crash...

I haven't verified if the same thing happens with ASCII strings.

Is this a known bug? (If so, AAARRGGHHH - could it really be that Python
basically doesn't work outside of the US? Hard to believe: these characters
are used in the Dutch language...)
Is there some workaround? Could I convert Unicode strings to ASCII? If so,
how?

Thanks for any help on this. Please put my work address
jhorneman at kalisto.com in copy if you can, I'm writing this from home.

--
Jurie Horneman
Opinions expressed are my own
jhorSPAMBGONneman at wanadoo.fr





From chris at voodooland.net  Tue Jan 16 22:05:08 2001
From: chris at voodooland.net (Chris Watson)
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 21:05:08 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Relational Databases and Python
In-Reply-To: <3A6503E1.2818971@mail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.21.0101162103450.90990-100000@open-systems.net>


> Does your statement in any way change the "limited to UNIX" claim in the
> original post?

	No. But this one does:

http://postgresql.readysetnet.com/users-lounge/docs/7.0/admin/ports.htm#AEN284

A simply 20 second cruise through the documentation will set the record
straight. All you gotta do is read.

--
=============================================================================
-Chris Watson         (316) 326-3862 | FreeBSD Consultant, FreeBSD Geek 
Work:              scanner at jurai.net | Open Systems Inc., Wellington, Kansas
Home:  scanner at deceptively.shady.org | http://open-systems.net
=============================================================================
WINDOWS: "Where do you want to go today?"
LINUX: "Where do you want to go tomorrow?"
BSD: "Are you guys coming or what?"
=============================================================================
GNU = Gnu's Non-portable & Unstable
irc.openprojects.net #FreeBSD -Join the revolution!
ICQ: 20016186




From rickylee at americasm01.nt.com  Tue Jan 30 12:05:06 2001
From: rickylee at americasm01.nt.com (Lee, Rick)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 12:05:06 -0500
Subject: Timer module?
Message-ID: <3A76F442.7BB0B9A9@americasm01.nt.com>

The sleep() function in the time module blocks.

I wonder if there is already any timer module out there that allows me
to:

- set a timer without blocking the current thread
- cancel the timer
- maybe also, able to tell it to recur at a given interval for so many
times; and able to change that
- create thousands of timers with a performance penalty that grows
slower than linearly with the number of timers; preferably a performance
cost that is small and almost constant

Thanks.

- Rick Lee



From dayonline2000au at yahoo.com.au  Wed Jan 10 00:10:35 2001
From: dayonline2000au at yahoo.com.au (NEWS!!)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 00:10:35
Subject: Gone are the days..
Message-ID: <UTC200101091345.OAA00869@zeus.cwi.nl>

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From clickron at webtv.net  Mon Jan 22 23:57:27 2001
From: clickron at webtv.net (clickron at webtv.net)
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 23:57:27 -0500 (EST)
Subject: beep
Message-ID: <11941-3A6D0F37-61@storefull-166.iap.bryant.webtv.net>

What do I write to just have my pc beep. I have windows 98. I tried 
import winsound
winsound.beep(400,500)
But I get an error(exception) message.
I'm not sure what I"m doing (obviously), I just downloaded Python two
days ago and I'm just playing with it to see what I can do. Help!

Ron



From khairy at magnet.fsu.edu  Sun Jan 21 20:25:54 2001
From: khairy at magnet.fsu.edu (Khaled Khairy)
Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 20:25:54 -0500
Subject: Newbee!!BPL question! Printing to standard output
References: <3A6B4D04.14B661E2@magnet.fsu.edu> <94fnkp$sdc$1@news.online.de>
Message-ID: <3A6B8C21.ADEAB05E@magnet.fsu.edu>

Thanks for your response and I'm sorry I must have not expressed myself
clearly the first time.
I'm using the Boost Python Library to use Python as an interface for a C++
library. Boost does an excellent job.
What I would like to be able to do is get a handle to the intepreter
terminal inside my C++ code, and directly print from
there, not through returning a string on an exported function.
Khaled Khairy


Nils Hensel wrote:

> You mean something like:
>
> print "some text"
>
> :o)
>
> Of course you could do it the long way:
>
> import sys
> sys.stdout.write ("some text")
>
> Nils
>
> "Khaled Khairy" <khairy at magnet.fsu.edu> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
> news:3A6B4D04.14B661E2 at magnet.fsu.edu...
> > I use ActiveState and use BPL for exposing a C++ library using VC6.
> > Can I, and how do I print to the standard output or to the ActiveState
> > interpreter screen directly,
> > without having to return a string ?  Something like calling
> > cout<<"some text" ;    within a function.
> > I would appreciate any help, thank you.
> > Khaled Khairy
> >



From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sat Jan 13 04:42:21 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 10:42:21 +0100
Subject: ASP + SQL Server + Time object problem
References: <93np4p$lm$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <slrn95vghv.aqj.tim@degree.ath.cx>
Message-ID: <93p88d013hg@news1.newsguy.com>

"Tim Hammerquist" <tim at degree.ath.cx> wrote in message
news:slrn95vghv.aqj.tim at degree.ath.cx...
    [snip]
> Anyone in the newsgroup familiar with the object model of a "time
> object"?

Hammond's docs included with win32all document it this way:

PyTime Object
A Python object, representing an instant in time.

Comments
A PyTime object is used primarily when exchanging date/time information with
other COM objects.
Using int(timeObject) will return an integer compatible with the time
module.

Example
To return a simple string
time.ctime(int(timeObject))

To return a string formatted as the long date in control panel
time.strftime("%#c", time.localtime(int(timeObject)))

See Also
pywintypes::Time

Methods
Format
Formats the time value
__int__
Used when an integer representation of the time object is required.
__float__
Used when a floating point representation of the time object is required.
__print__
Used when the time object is printed. tp_print
__cmp__
Used when time objects are compared. tp_compare
__hash__
Used when the hash value of an time object is required tp_hash


Seems pretty good to me -- what's missing?


Alex





From dag at orion.no  Wed Jan 24 09:31:18 2001
From: dag at orion.no (Dag Sunde)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 14:31:18 GMT
Subject: win32com.client - need some help
References: <94mjj8$v3g$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <WGBb6.5374$Yv.611548@juliett.dax.net>

Probably with:

dic = ob.getDictionary()

?

-d-

<zippy1984 at my-deja.com> wrote in message news:94mjj8$v3g$1 at nnrp1.deja.com...
> I am trying to port some VB code to Python, but I have a problem
> with code that passes Objects by reference....
>
> VB:
>    Dim ob as someObject
>    Dim dic as IDictionary
>    Dim i as Long
>
>    ob = CreateObject("some.object.1")
>    ob.getDictionary dic  ' set "dic" to point to the "ob" dictionary
>    i = dic.getValue("xyzzy")
>
> Python:
>    import win32com.client
>    ob = win32com.client.Dispatch("some.object.1")  # ok
>    # I can now use "ob" to call methods that returns infomation
>    # by the return value.
>    #... then how do I get the dictionary?
>
>
> regards, tom
>
>
>
> Sent via Deja.com
> http://www.deja.com/




From cprice404 at my-deja.com  Wed Jan 10 18:21:22 2001
From: cprice404 at my-deja.com (cprice404 at my-deja.com)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 23:21:22 GMT
Subject: DTML/Zope AND Flash
References: <93i5su$kfs$1@news1.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <93iqp9$oa7$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

You should be able to use a dtml document--we've
done it on several occasions.  One problem that I
have had in the past is that it seems that the
dtml document can't have any carriage returns in
it.  So what I've had to do on several occasions
is use 2 dtml docs... so let's say that I have a
doc1 and doc2 and the flash client makes it's
request to doc1.  Here is an example of what those
docs might look like:

doc1:
************************************************
<dtml-call doc2><dtml-var result>
************************************************

doc2:
************************************************
<dtml-call "REQUEST.set('result', '')">
<dtml-in someZQLMethod>
	<dtml-call "REQUEST.set('result', result +
'var=value&')">
</dtml-in>
<dtml-call "REQUEST.set('result', result +
'end_of_vars=1'">
************************************************

You will obviously need to muck with the part
inside of the dtml-in but this general structure
has worked for us on several occasions.

I think the main problem is that many of the
<dtml-call>'s or <dtml-in>'s that you make in your
dtml doc will throw some whitespace into the
output, and as soon as the flash client receives a
blank line it thinks it's reached the end of it's
input.

Hope that helps.

Chris



In article <93i5su$kfs$1 at news1.xs4all.nl>,
  "DamageCase" <menno at phreaker.net> wrote:
> Hello all, I have a question regarding the use
of flash on a zope server !
> I hope someone can help me out here !
>
> I'm trying to load a simple .txt file into
flash, which isn't the problem of
> course, the problem I have is that I want to
make the .txt variable using
> dtml that get's is content from a MySQL
database. Simply putting dtml-var's
> in the .txt file does not work ( how surprising
=P )  but Flash does not
> want to read from other format's than txt, so a
dtml-document does not work
> either.
> Does anybody have an solution for this problem ?
>
> friendly regards, Menno
>
>



Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From rindolf2 at yahoo.comNOSPAM  Wed Jan  3 12:00:04 2001
From: rindolf2 at yahoo.comNOSPAM (Rindolf)
Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 17:00:04 GMT
Subject: GIF Image Size
References: <Wxp46.24381$F_3.940941@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <92tbig$ede$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <Ifw46.28043$F_3.1077811@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <4my46.10966$mg6.496261@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <92veue$4b1$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <oUI46.15587$mg6.661664@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>

"Greg Landrum" <glandrum at my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:92veue$4b1$1 at nnrp1.deja.com...
> In article <4my46.10966$mg6.496261 at newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>,
>   "Rindolf" <rindolf2 at yahoo.comNOSPAM> wrote:
> > > Thank you! Btw, what type of object is img.size, and what is the
> class of
> > > object returned by Image.open()?
> > Um, I just downloaded it, how do I use it in windows? I have python
> 2.0
> > installed in C:\Python20. Help?
> >
>
> If you are using python 2.0, you can find a binary distribution at:
> http://w1.132.telia.com/~u13208596/pil/index.htm
> along with installation instructions.  It would be convenient if this
> were directly available from the pythonware site, but it's not.
>
> To answer your other questions, img.size is a 2-tuple and Image.open()
> returns an instance of the PIL Image class.  Refer to the PIL docs
> for information about this class.
>
Many thanks! It's just what I needed!

Rindolf




From phlip_cpp at my-deja.com  Wed Jan 24 12:28:42 2001
From: phlip_cpp at my-deja.com (Phlip)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 09:28:42 -0800
Subject: Ever hear of CERN's ROOT scientific visualization package?
Message-ID: <DiEb6.22$nv2.18209@news.pacbell.net>

Thons, Py:

A colleague recently asked me to look up something called "ROOT". I 
complained "I can't e-search for  'root'! I'd get a million false hits!"

ROOT's here:

         http://root.cern.ch

It's a high-end version of programs like GnuPlot or  OpenDx; it's written 
for  physicists at CERN, and it can handle terabyte databases.

The bad news it bonds to a questionable "C++ Interpreter" for its 
scripting end. We all know that interpreting a language designed to be 
compiled represents the worst of both worlds.

Has anyone plugged their  NumericPython into ROOT? How hard could that be?

-- 
  Phlip                          phlip_cpp at my-deja.com
============ http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?PhlIp ============
  --  Founding member of NuGWa -
        Nudists for Global Warming  --


From rcameszREMOVETHIS at dds.removethistoo.nl  Wed Jan 10 08:10:49 2001
From: rcameszREMOVETHIS at dds.removethistoo.nl (Robert Amesz)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 13:10:49 GMT
Subject: new enum idiom
References: <G6qzLy.6Fo@world.std.com> <938jmh$919$1@animus.fel.iae.nl> <3A58B9C0.9F2A5CC0@collins.rockwell.com> <93an8v02d2n@news1.newsguy.com> <93dde1$8d2$1@animus.fel.iae.nl> <93f3nb023mv@news1.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <90259DC4Arcamesz@127.0.0.1>

Alex Martelli wrote:

>[Enums]
>
>With some extra syntax, such as equal-signs, or arrowlike squigglies
>pointing in either explicit direction, expectations would surely
>firm up.  E.g., if I read:
>
>    xx = enum('foo', 'bar', 32, '<-fee', 'fie', 45, '<-flip',
>    'flop') 
>
>I would guess the arrows are suggesting 32 is the value of 'fee' and
>45 the value of 'flip, while if I read:
>
>    xx = enum('foo', 'bar->', 32, 'fee', 'fie->', 45, 'flip',
>    'flop') 
>
>then the different arrows would suggest 32 as the value of 'bar' and
>45 as that of 'fie'.
>
> [Snip]
>
>That's one possibility.  Syntax such as "bar=32" (for names in the
>enumlist whose value is explicitly defined) being another
>alternative, still better than 'just the list' (and a split on that
>form is enough to make it into the name/value pair, so it would be
>easy enough to accept either).


Either way seems rather ugly to me. Why not use tuples to visually 
suggest the link between the value and the string? In this case that 
would make:

 xx = enum('foo', ('bar',32), 'fee', ('fie',45), 'flip', 'flop') 

It also would be much easier to parse the argument list in that form.


Robert Amesz


From rjroy at takingcontrol.com  Wed Jan 10 18:21:41 2001
From: rjroy at takingcontrol.com (Robert Roy)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 23:21:41 GMT
Subject: dns reverse look up with python ?
References: <93ecvp$v21$02$1@news.t-online.com> <93fe1k$mh4$0@216.39.151.169> <nNM66.1678$_e7.114504@news2.atl>
Message-ID: <3a5cee2a.77409375@news1.on.sympatico.ca>

On Tue, 9 Jan 2001 17:57:58 -0500, "Joel Ricker"
<joejava at dragonat.net> wrote:
>
>and $Result will contain the results of the command.  But what I found in
>the Python reference was os.system("command") which returned only a value
>that reports if the command was successful or not.  What is the Python way
>of running command and have the actual results of the command returned?
>
>later,
>Joel

use the commands module
>
>--
>I have been Perl-Free for 4 Days, 20 Hours, 8 Minutes, and 30 Seconds.
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
>Joel Ricker   joejava at dragoncat.net
>  Just Another Python Hacker
>
>



From sholden at holdenweb.com  Fri Jan 19 01:40:01 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 01:40:01 -0500
Subject: Jython-2.0 released
References: <mailman.979852051.13723.python-list@python.org> <m8P96.185124$59.49360823@news3.rdc1.on.home.com>
Message-ID: <1nR96.8075$Mo6.76257@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>

[Jython announcement]

"Tom" <nospam at nospam.com> wrote in message
news:m8P96.185124$59.49360823 at news3.rdc1.on.home.com...
> I thought that what existed before was a python enterpreter written in
Java.
> But this sounds like a Python compiler.  Is this something new?
>
> Tom.
>
No. JPython was similar to standard (C)Python in that it compiled to
intermediate byte codes and interpreted them. The smart part was compiling
to *Java* bytecodes instead of Python bytecodes. Jython programs can be run
by any Java Virtual Machine implementation, and therefore get pretty amazing
integration with Java classes. It is possible to have Python classes
subclassing Java classes, and vice versa.

Jython 2.0 is an implementation of JPython which

  a)    Avoids impinging on CNRI's rights to the name JPython, and

  b)    Brings the Python language synatx into line with Python 2.0

although-2.1-is-just-around-the-corner-ly y'rs  - steve



From erno-news at erno.iki.fi  Tue Jan  9 02:14:49 2001
From: erno-news at erno.iki.fi (Erno Kuusela)
Date: 09 Jan 2001 09:14:49 +0200
Subject: Web devel with python. Whats the best route?
References: <mailman.978910629.6814.python-list@python.org> <93cqvi0191h@news1.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <kuofxhi4d2.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>

In article <93cqvi0191h at news1.newsguy.com>, "Alex Martelli"
<aleaxit at yahoo.com> writes:

| "Session continuity" will have to be provided via cookies, but that's
| not really all that hard

note that mod_python and mod_snake are in the same boat (modulo
libraries they may or may not provide?) because they also run
with multiple processes.

lately i've come to the conclusion that the best way to do session
tracking (certainly better than cookies) is to generate a unique id
and put it in the url as a path component. something like
http://my.site/my-program/0dj2/operation or whatever.  you can use map
the unique to (sequence of?) words from id/usr/dict/words if you want
to make the url human-rememberable :)

this has the advantage of
a) not needing cookies enabled in the users browser
b) making the session portable in the sense that you can
   take a url to another machine and have it work
c) making it work with search engines
d) being technically less ugly than cookies

  -- erno



From bhellao at my-deja.com  Mon Jan 22 17:03:14 2001
From: bhellao at my-deja.com (Opinderjit)
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 22:03:14 GMT
Subject: SWIG for NT
References: <94add5$7o5$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <94iams$bv4$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

Is there anybody out there who has build this library, or know how to
build it for windows.

In article <94add5$7o5$1 at nnrp1.deja.com>,
  Opinderjit <bhellao at my-deja.com> wrote:
> Is there a libswigpy library for the NT environment?
>
> Thank you.
>
> Sent via Deja.com
> http://www.deja.com/
>


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From quinn at zloty.ugcs.caltech.edu  Fri Jan  5 02:27:39 2001
From: quinn at zloty.ugcs.caltech.edu (Quinn Dunkan)
Date: 5 Jan 2001 07:27:39 GMT
Subject: Migrating to perl?
References: <3Fa56.4580$of7.216286@news1.atl> <933fa1$j2i$1@newshost.accu.uu.nl> <ggd56.4652$of7.222552@news1.atl>
Message-ID: <slrn95atra.vm6.quinn@zloty.ugcs.caltech.edu>

On Fri, 5 Jan 2001 00:47:32 -0500, Joel Ricker <joejava at dragonat.net> wrote:
>From your examples, Pythons class model is much cleaner.  Also if I
>understand your example, variables internal to the object are kept
>internal -- they can't be accessed without a proper method.  With perl
>anything goes.  There are some techniques to prevent this but it isn't
>definite.  Its actually this very topic that made me throw my new OO book
>across the room and subscribed to this newsgroup :)

Well, I hate to disappoint, but python doesn't enforce encapsulation.  Just
like it doesn't enforce types---you'll get a runtime error down the line.  I
too like the idea of enforced encapsulation, so that attribute accesses are
spelled the same as methods, so I won't have to change client code if I want
to alter the implementation.  sather, dylan, and ruby are some languages that
provide automatic accessors.  I've discovered, though, that I've never had a
problem with python's direct access.  Just use your good judgement---you may
discover that you have a lot of that (which you've just demonstrated by trying
python :)  Not that I wouldn't mind if python required accessors and settors,
so long as it generated them automatically, but then there's the other problem
that python method calls are slower than straight attribute access.

>I've mentioned before that I'm real new to OO.  How should I approach it in
>Python?  Has anyone learned OO just from Python?  Or should I study OO
>theory else where and then apply it to Python?  I know this is bordering on
>the question of how do I do OO but I really know very little about it...
>enough to know that I can benefit from it and basic ideas.  I understand the
>idea of a class and building objects from it but anything beyond that is
>still really new to me.  Any suggestions?

Well, here's how I did it:  I learned the concepts.  Then I thought, "OK,
that's nice.  I guess it could theoreticly be useful for somethings, if I
could think of them."  Then I started on a project in a procedural style.  I
was passing around a bunch of data structures, with a common set of
operations.  I had to either have multiple procedures, or one procedure that
dispatched on type.  Then I thought:  "Hey!  Dispatching on type... that's
like a method call!"  So I put my data structures into classes.. and things
became much clearer.  Later, I was passing a lot of closures around.  I wanted
to associate an action with its data.  Then I thought:  "A method is like a
closure on its first argument!"  So I rewrote that data structure as a class.
Before I knew it, I was thinking "f is a message sent to the o object, asking
it to...", insatead of "f is a function that maps o values to...".

I guess this is the type of "semi-OO" learning approach that works very well
in a hybrid language like python, and a smalltalker might have different ideas
of how to learn.  But it worked for me, because I could see how it can
actually resolve (some kinds of) problems I run into every day in an elegant
manner.

>I know I have been.  Nothing like a friendly newsgroup to convince me to
>switch -- at least take a break from perl for awhile to see how the other
>side lives.

And there's more than two sides!  You'll receive recommendations to everything
from lua (very python-like), to ruby (pretty python-like), to haskell
(conceptually somewhat python-like, for being diametrically opposed), and
recently erlang (not much like python at all, from what I can see) here.
There's a bazillion worthy languages out there, and c.l.py seems to be a
pretty cosmopolitan crowd.


From erno-news at erno.iki.fi  Fri Jan  5 19:52:18 2001
From: erno-news at erno.iki.fi (Erno Kuusela)
Date: 06 Jan 2001 02:52:18 +0200
Subject: string formatting question
References: <3a5660f8.626036031@localhost>
Message-ID: <ku8zopmri5.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>

In article <3a5660f8.626036031 at localhost>, victor at prodigy.net (Victor
Muslin) writes:

| >>> '%d' % 123123123123123123L
| produces an OverflowError exception. Surely there is something simple
| I am overlooking in the manual, but none of the other format
| specifiers described seemed to be appropriate.

this is fixed in python 2.0

meanwhile, like another poster suggested, you can use %s or str().
however, these leave you with a L suffix in the string.
however**2, the L suffix has also been "fixed" in 2.0, so
the str(123123123123123123L)[:-1] that would work in 1.5.2 will
break in 2.0.

it's not a pretty sight...

  -- erno


From michael at stroeder.com  Sun Jan 28 13:15:08 2001
From: michael at stroeder.com (Michael =?iso-8859-1?Q?Str=F6der?=)
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 19:15:08 +0100
Subject: Interested in a Crypto-SIG?
References: <3A72C8A3.C4B4D69A@stroeder.com> <slrn97650f.i1.amk@mira.erols.com> <3A731F26.15461A27@stroeder.com> <slrn978o29.gn.amk@mira.erols.com>
Message-ID: <3A7461AC.AC5768@stroeder.com>

"A.M. Kuchling" wrote:
> 
> In any case, making something a SIG as opposed to just a mailing list
> will not magically free up more of people's time to work on the SIG's
> deliverable.

Yes, I'm aware of all the dead Python-SIGs, SourceForge projects
etc. 

Yes, I'm also sick of people trying to let others do their homework
by founding an Open Source initiative.

Yes, I know how much work a reasonable crypto API for Python is.

But there are people currently working on this stuff (e.g. M2Crypto,
some commercial projects). This is my try to coordinate the work
which is already done to save our time!

A.M., is this clear enough?

Ciao, Michael.


From fredrik at effbot.org  Sun Jan 21 11:45:35 2001
From: fredrik at effbot.org (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 16:45:35 GMT
Subject: Unicode string output
References: <mailman.980094083.22572.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <PmEa6.8085$AH6.1278344@newsc.telia.net>

Alexander Kostyrkin wrote:
> Surprisingly printing a unicode string that contains a Japanese kanji
> character raises an exception
> For example
>
>     print u"\u55f4"
> UnicodeError: ASCII encoding error: ordinal not in range(128)
>
> Is there any way to overcome the problem?

If you don't specify what encoding to use on output, Python assumes
you're an encoding-ignorant american programmer <wink>, and defaults
to ASCII.

To use any other encoding, use the encode method:

    s = ...
    print s.encode("iso-latin-1")
    print s.encode("ascii", "ignore")

Also see the codecs modules:
http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/module-codecs.html

Cheers /F




From aleksei.guzev at bigfoot.com  Sun Jan 28 21:34:21 2001
From: aleksei.guzev at bigfoot.com (Aleksei Guzev)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 07:34:21 +0500
Subject: [Python-Help] Globals
In-Reply-To: <951oec$6ab$1@animus.fel.iae.nl>
Message-ID: <LPENKAFBJDPOFHMCEBOMIEJHCDAA.aleksei.guzev@bigfoot.com>

THis works well while You do know what module is va imported from ;) I mean
c.py conclude somehow to "import a".

But I thought on this question last night and understood that I could defile
a static variable of class CA referring g_var. This static variable should
be initialized not from shelve but in c.py.

$ cat a.py
# module a

class CA:
    var = None
    def foo( self ):
        print self.var

$ cat b.py
# module b
import shelve, a
s = shelve.open( 's' )
s[ "va" ] = a.CA()
s.close()

$ cat c.py
# module c
import shelve, a

s = shelve.open( 's', 'r' )
va = s[ "va" ]
s.close()

a.g_var = "the string to be printed"
CA.var = g_var

va.foo()

$ python b.py
$ python c.py
the string to be printed



--
groetjes, carel
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list




From scarblac at pino.selwerd.nl  Tue Jan 23 13:48:45 2001
From: scarblac at pino.selwerd.nl (Remco Gerlich)
Date: 23 Jan 2001 18:48:45 GMT
Subject: How do I know all thrown exceptions of a function?
References: <g3lb49.73s.ln@127.0.0.1> <94d93h$55d$1@troll.powertech.no> <mailman.980059223.25947.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrn96rk66.ugd.scarblac@pino.selwerd.nl>

Sean Reifschneider <jafo at tummy.com> wrote in comp.lang.python:
> On Sun, Jan 21, 2001 at 01:02:36AM +0100, Syver Enstad wrote:
> >Couldn't you use the source?
> 
> Yeah, I suppose so.  I don't think you should *HAVE* to review the code of
> the libraries you call, AND *EVERYTHING* that *THEY* call.  It's not an
> effective use of my time...  I usually just end up leaving it and track
> down what exceptions get thrown later.  Luckily, Python exceptions are
> (almost) user-readable.

I've been thinking about good guidelines to solve this.

- Obviously, document all your error conditions.
- All the exceptions your code explicitly throws should inherit
  some base exception defined in your module, so that that can
  be tested for.
- Avoid throwing exceptions that have to do with your implementation
  to the outside world. If your module function gets an argument that
  is out of range, resulting in an IndexError, don't just pass that on
  to the caller but catch it and raise a custom exception yourself,
  that inherits from your module's standard exception. Hide your
  implementation.
- Obviously trying to change exceptions that aren't caused by your code
  (like KeyboardInterrupt) is of no use.

Comments?

-- 
Remco Gerlich


From gregory_wilson at my-deja.com  Wed Jan 10 11:02:45 2001
From: gregory_wilson at my-deja.com (gregory_wilson at my-deja.com)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 16:02:45 GMT
Subject: why no "do : until"?
References: <92jj3j$ff7$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <93i12s$ul5$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

> Can someone point me at an explanation of the logic for not having
> do:
> until

A proposal I floated a year ago, based on feedback from students in
the Python course I teach, was:

    do:
      first-half
    while cond:
      second half

which would allow the following degenerate forms:

    do:
      body
    while cond

and

    while cond:
      body

In the discussion that followed, I pointed out one
reason why people want this.  If you write a C-style
assignment-in-the-test 'while' loop, you can capture
the loop control in a variable for use in the loop
body:

    while (line = readline()):    # not legal Python, but useful
      do things with line

To do this in Python, you need:

    while 1:
      line = readline()
      if (some test on line): break
      do things with line

because there is no way to capture the while's
conditional test in a variable in the while
statement itself.  One of the advantages of a
test-in-the-middle loop is that it allows this:

    do:
      line = readline()
    while (some test on line):
      do things with line

The "while 1/break" idiom also allows it, but
because the 'break' isn't outdented, it isn't
as easy for readers to see where the test is
being done.

Greg


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From jdries at mail.com  Sat Jan 27 08:04:33 2001
From: jdries at mail.com (Jan Dries)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 14:04:33 +0100
Subject: c(++)python?
References: <3A71EB9C.D258C1C0@comm.mot.com> <3A722CE4.56442E08@mega-nerd.com>
Message-ID: <3A72C761.5C918124@mail.com>


Erik de Castro Lopo wrote:
> Stephen Boulet wrote:
> > Why is the most popular implementation of python in C? A novice
> > programmer (like myself) might think:  "python is itself an
> > object-oriented language, so it would make sense to implement it in
> > another object-oriented language."
> 
> What makes you think you can't program in an OO manner in C?

What makes you think you can't program in an OO manner in plain machine
code?

> 
> Laws of Thermodynamics:
> 1) You cannot win.
> 2) You cannot break even.
> 3) You cannot get out of the game.
<OT>
According to the book "Murphy's Laws Complete" by Arthur Bloch, these
aren't the laws of Thermodynamics, but rather "Ginsberg's Theorem". And
there even is "Freeman's commentary on Ginsberg's Theorem":
Every major philosophy that attempts to make life seem meaningful is
based on the negation of one part of Ginsberg's Theorem:
1. Capitalism is based on the assumption that you can win.
2. Socialism is based on the assumption that you can break even.
3. Mysticism is based on the assumption that you can quit the game.
</OT>

Regards,
Jan



From philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk  Fri Jan  5 19:43:16 2001
From: philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk (phil hunt)
Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2001 00:43:16 +0000
Subject: Python
References: <H%Q06.121592$IP1.4175126@news1.giganews.com>  <29L16.133815$IP1.4476387@news1.giganews.com>  <yl66k7r20x.fsf@windlord.stanford.edu> <7solGbVHw-B@khms.westfalen.de>  <92m66n$9g6$1@mulga.cs.mu.OZ.AU> <7tH7W40Hw-B@khms.westfalen.de> <3A562BD1.3DCBB6E3@mega-nerd.com>
Message-ID: <slrn95cqh4.cvt.philh@comuno.freeserve.co.uk>

On Fri, 05 Jan 2001 20:26:29 GMT, Erik de Castro Lopo <nospam at mega-nerd.com> wrote:
>Kai Henningsen wrote:
>> 
>> fjh at cs.mu.oz.au (Fergus Henderson)  wrote on 31.12.00 in <92m66n$9g6$1 at mulga.cs.mu.OZ.AU>:
>> 
>> > kaih=7solGbVHw-B at khms.westfalen.de (Kai Henningsen) writes:
>> >
>> > >I'm sure I'd do more with Zope if it weren't written in Python, which I
>> > >can't stand.
>> >
>> > Could you elaborate?  What don't you like about Python?
>> 
>> Different amounts of white space has semantic meaning. That's one of the
>> worst possible design decisions to take, and I had hoped FORTRAN had cured
>> people from that idea; but it seems not. Anyway, it makes me want to lose
>> the contents of my stomach, pretty much literally.
>
>I too hated that idea until I seriously tried cutting
>some Python code. Now I quite like it.

My experience is similar.

I stood off learning Python for a year, because I had misgivings about
its indentation policy.

But once I learnt it, I liked it. Now it is my prefered language.

-- 
*****[ Phil Hunt ***** philh at comuno.freeserve.co.uk ]*****
"An unforseen issue has arisen with your computer. Don't worry your
silly little head about what has gone wrong; here's a pretty animation
of a paperclip to look at instead." -- Windows2007 error message

               



From loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de  Tue Jan 23 16:19:14 2001
From: loewis at informatik.hu-berlin.de (Martin von Loewis)
Date: 23 Jan 2001 22:19:14 +0100
Subject: Why is "as" not a keyword?
References: <3A679717.1328@loop.com> <slrn96f8a7.il3.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <B6910070.93AB%bobhicks@adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <p6q3deaufu5.fsf@informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Robert L Hicks <bobhicks at adelphia.net> writes:

> Last I looked...which was 5 seconds ago..."as" is not in the keyword
> list. I am sure if it is ever added then IDLE will be updated to
> reflect that.

As it turns out, IDLE is updated without the keyword list being changed.

"as" is not a keyword, it just has a special meaning in the import
statement.

Regards,
Martin


From not.this at seebelow.org  Sun Jan 28 23:04:38 2001
From: not.this at seebelow.org (Grant Griffin)
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 22:04:38 -0600
Subject: curly-brace-aphobic?
Message-ID: <3A74EBD6.3C87FD15@seebelow.org>

Hi Gang,

I'm sure this has been asked a thousand times, but I haven't seen it
asked lately (or ever <wink>).

Why does Python use square braces ([]) instead of curly braces ({}) when
accessing dictionaries?

This strange inconsistency in Python seems strangely inconsistent with
its otherwise very consistent application of consistency: since we use
curly braces to _create_ dictionaries, why not use them to _access_
dictionaries?  (Or better yet, if the underlying design principle is to
access things using a different syntax than what we used to create them,
why not use curly braces to access lists?  <wink>)

Anyway, although curly braces are perhaps slightly harder to type than
square braces, this is one example (maybe the only one) where I find
Perl code more readable: I appreciate the mnemonic effect curly braces
have in reminding me that the thing being accessed is a dictionary*.

or-is-python-just-"curly-brace-aphobic?-{wink}-ly y'rs,

=g2
* perl_terminology = { 'dictionary': 'hash' }

-------------

Addendum:  Now that I've written all that, I just had a flash.  Is it so
that dictionary code can be sortta polymorphic wrt list code?

doesn't-sound-like-a-very-good-reason-to-me...-ly y'rs,

=g3
-- 
_____________________________________________________________________

Grant R. Griffin                                       g2 at dspguru.com
Publisher of dspGuru                           http://www.dspguru.com
Iowegian International Corporation            http://www.iowegian.com


From sheila at spamcop.net  Wed Jan 24 01:19:04 2001
From: sheila at spamcop.net (Sheila King)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 06:19:04 GMT
Subject: beep again
References: <5251-3A6E5B71-16@storefull-163.iap.bryant.webtv.net>
Message-ID: <1uss6tskd2jg4vfuj47at3rnsm99a8i4td@4ax.com>

On Tue, 23 Jan 2001 23:34:57 -0500 (EST), clickron at webtv.net wrote in
comp.lang.python in article
<5251-3A6E5B71-16 at storefull-163.iap.bryant.webtv.net>:

:Thanks for answering my last question. I get the beep now, but no matter
:what numbers I put in for the frequency and duration it doesn't change.

Yes, that is the same experience I had, when I tried the code out last night.

--
Sheila King
http://www.thinkspot.net/sheila/
http://www.k12groups.org/




From bowman at montana.com  Wed Jan 24 09:30:59 2001
From: bowman at montana.com (bowman)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 07:30:59 -0700
Subject: Editor font in IDLE (Linux)
References: <mailman.980252066.30237.python-list@python.org> <94k31p$geg$1@reader1.imaginet.fr> <mailman.980260346.3483.python-list@python.org> <94mkal$2me$1@reader1.imaginet.fr>
Message-ID: <LGBb6.9870$d25.63560@newsfeed.slurp.net>

Gilles Lenfant <glenfant at equod.com.nospam> wrote in message
news:94mkal$2me$1 at reader1.imaginet.fr...
>
> This works only with Windows IDLE.
> I removed :
>          if sys.platform[:3] == 'win':
> and tried different valid font names in:
> text['font'] = ...

I'm not on Linux at the moment, so can't test it, but have you tried passing
the name in the form you get when you run xlsfonts, with all the fields?
I've seen the problem with app-defaults files. If there isn't a good match
to a valid font spec, it defaults back to something else, usually an ugly
monospaced 12 point it picks up from the xterm.





From johann at physics.berkeley.edu  Wed Jan 17 00:56:02 2001
From: johann at physics.berkeley.edu (Johann Hibschman)
Date: 16 Jan 2001 21:56:02 -0800
Subject: httplib and cookies
References: <mty9wbl77v.fsf@astron.berkeley.edu> <mailman.979673238.25648.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <mtr922u3gt.fsf@astron.berkeley.edu>

Moshe Zadka writes:

> On 16 Jan 2001 09:47:32 -0800, Johann Hibschman <johann at physics.berkeley.edu> wrote:
>> Hi folks, webby question here.
>> 
>> Is there a way I can get httplib to handle cookie setting and requests
>> from the server?

> Cookies are sent with a "Set-Cookie" header. You'll have to parse
> this (yourself: if the cookie is simple, you can use crude tricks),
> and then send this back in a "Cookie" header. You can even do it
> with urllib.FancyURLopener, just use the .addheader() method (but be
> aware that if there are redirects involved, you're probably better
> off using URLopener and handling the redirects yourself)

Okay, thanks.  I've got it working.  I like python.  I just thought
I'd mention that.  It's all so easy.  :-)

--Johann

-- 
Johann Hibschman                           johann at physics.berkeley.edu


From spenrose at well.com  Sun Jan  7 22:49:41 2001
From: spenrose at well.com (Sam Penrose)
Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2001 19:49:41 -0800
Subject: Web devel with python. Whats the best route?
References: <mailman.978910629.6814.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <spenrose-6964FE.19494107012001@news.dnai.com>

In article <mailman.978910629.6814.python-list at python.org>, Chris 
Watson <chris at voodooland.net> wrote:

> 
> 	I'm about to start converting the small fool proof (ha ha) admin
> system I have been working from console based to web based. What is the
> easiest way to go about integrating python into apache so I can start
> web'izing this app? mod_python, mod_snake, PyApache? 
> 	

0) PyApache appears defunct and leaks memory under RedHat Linux 6.

1) The easiest way might well be CGI. Intel Linux boxes hold up very 
well on CGI; a PIII/SCSI server with plenty of RAM can comfortably 
handle tens of thousands of CGI hits a day.


From cerutti at together.net  Fri Jan 26 08:42:49 2001
From: cerutti at together.net (Neil Cerutti)
Date: 26 Jan 2001 13:42:49 GMT
Subject: Tkinter vs wxPython: your opinions?
References: <3A6F899F.E164F628@home.com> <hvZb6.2156$_8.33280@news1.rdc1.bc.home.com> <slrn9710o1.73.cerutti@fiad06.norwich.edu> <nY1c6.87$DPo.11993392@news.randori.com> <mailman.980465131.18622.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrn97303u.77.cerutti@fiad06.norwich.edu>

Geoff Talvola posted:
>* wxPython is much faster (once it's loaded).

I sort of suspected that. ;-)

>As you can see, I was able to work around some of the issues
>above, but with wxPython I won't have to work around them;
>things will work as people to expect them to work in the Windows
>world.  At least I hope so -- I haven't converted yet!

I bet wxPython would save GUI rookies like me from a lot of
interface mistakes in my design too, since it's not nearly as
easy to tweak every little widget, allowing me to accidentally
write a very non-intuitive app.

-- 
Neil Cerutti <cerutti at together.net>
"If you're gonna score 125 points in a game, you've only got to
play good enough defense to hold the other team to 124. How
the hell hard is that?" -- Red Auerbach


From donn at u.washington.edu  Fri Jan 19 12:34:22 2001
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: 19 Jan 2001 17:34:22 GMT
Subject: How to close all files between fork and exec?
References: <yv27l3upooj.fsf@lionsp093.lion-ag.de> <yv27l3t483r.fsf@lionsp093.lion-ag.de> <9475av$t13$1@panix2.panix.com> <yv2lms8lyre.fsf@lionsp093.lion-ag.de> <949nds$d55$1@panix6.panix.com>
Message-ID: <949tqu$o9o$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>

Quoth aahz at panix.com (Aahz Maruch):
| In article <yv2lms8lyre.fsf at lionsp093.lion-ag.de>,
| Harald Kirsch  <kirschh at lionbioscience.com> wrote:
|> aahz at panix.com (Aahz Maruch) writes:
|> >
|> > from fork import open
|>  
|> Hmm, this is becoming somehow interesting because I have got no idea
|> why you think this relates in any way to my question. Either you try
|> to tease me or we have a communication problem. But I think I should
|> stay calm and try to start all over:
|> 
|> Suppose you have the assignment to write a module for me which, for
|> whatever reasons, has to fork/exec certain subprocesses. I want to use
|> your module as a service in my software. But my software will have a
|> whole bunch of files open when it calls your module. How did your
|> module keep track of all these files so that it is able to close them
|> all before execing. --- If you now say that your module cannot do that
|> and that it would be the obligation of my software to close unneded
|> files before calling your module, I at least start to understand your
|> arguments. However I maintain the opinion that this would be nonsense.

| To expand on my terse comment, "from fork import open" replaces the
| builtin function open() with the function from the fork module.  This
| function is a thin wrapper around the builtin open() that tracks all
| files that have ever been opened.  You can't write a wrapper for close()
| unless you also design a UserFile class that you return from open; it's
| not that useful, anyway, because a standard Python idiom is to let files
| fall out of scope and let them close themselves (which unfortunately
| won't happen in programs that use the fork module because the fork module
| will retain a reference; it's a trade-off).
|
| When you call the actual fork/exec function, it just checks to see which
| of the stored file handles are still open and then closes them.

Is this fork module hypothetical?

I think I agree with the original poster that it will be fundamentally
impractical to account for open files.  There are many operations that
open a file descriptor - besides builtin open(), of course we have
posix.open, posix.dup and dup2, socket.socket and I imagine plenty
more obscure functions, that return an open file descriptor or object 
clearly built around one.  Then there must be C libraries, e.g., maybe
a graphic interface toolkit that supports X11.  And even if you could
somehow account for all that, if the object is really to close every
last descriptor, what about the ones inherited by Python?

I am thankful for enlightenment about the sysconf() function.  Someone
may have supplied more details in this thread, but if so I didn't notice
it, so here goes.  posix.sysconf is available starting in Python 2.0.

   >>> import posix
   >>> posix.sysconf('SC_OPEN_MAX')
   1064
   >>>

	Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu


From sholden at holdenweb.com  Thu Jan  4 16:14:28 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 16:14:28 -0500
Subject: How-to create a Pascal Record using Python
References: <3a54c7cf.15612195@news.skynet.be> <u4456.166$XZ5.32337@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com> <3a54e0c0.21998314@news.skynet.be>
Message-ID: <vK556.179$xT.42728@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>

Daniel <Daniel.Kinnaer at AdValvas.be> wrote in message
news:3a54e0c0.21998314 at news.skynet.be...
> On Thu, 4 Jan 2001 14:21:27 -0500, "Steve Holden"
> <sholden at holdenweb.com> wrote:
>
>
> >
> >    return file.read().splitlines()
> >
> >
> >regards
> > Steve
> >
> Thanks for your reply.  Was it correct to handle Pascal-like records
> the way I did, or is there a more Python-ly manner of handling this?
>
> Suppose I have something like
>
> TMyRecord = record
>      aName : string;
>      adate   :  TDateTime;
>     aZIP     : integer;
>   end; file://record
>
> var MyRecs : array [1..100] of TMyRecord;
>       f             : file of TMyRecord;
>
> How is this handled in Python?  Sorry for these questions, but I
> really would like to learn about all of this.
>
> Thanks
>
It's so long ango since I gave up using Pascal I'm not sure how the data
will be stored on the disk.  That's the crux of your question, I suspect.

Assuming a textual representation similar to the one in your original post,
and further assuming that the strings don't contain commas (always dubious
about such assumptions, but you asked), then once you've got the lines in
your program you could use string.split() or the split() method which 2.0
introduced for strings to separate out the chunks between the commas.

If the records are written to disk in binary (and I doubt this, since the
strings are apparently of arbitrary length, so how is their length encoded)
then the struct module contains features you can use.

Someone who's using both languages may give you better advice.  For now,
don't worry _too_ much about Pythonicity, just build something that works.
You can always improve it later!

regards
 Steve






From sheila at thinkspot.net  Sat Jan 20 11:32:08 2001
From: sheila at thinkspot.net (Sheila King)
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 16:32:08 GMT
Subject: Translating a Perl script into Python
References: <vo9i6t04nhurgv2avmgoss4mg86ofcuhtv@4ax.com> <94c2as0nei@news2.newsguy.com> <heej6tcb6cukmqkcc319lasc6qiu4hqcv7@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <1tej6tgp30shi14sgr7908f3l8vd5qkp59@4ax.com>

On Sat, 20 Jan 2001 08:21:06 -0800, Sheila King <sheila at thinkspot.net> wrote
in comp.lang.python in article <heej6tcb6cukmqkcc319lasc6qiu4hqcv7 at 4ax.com>:

:On Sat, 20 Jan 2001 14:01:11 +0100, "Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote
:in comp.lang.python in article <94c2as0nei at news2.newsguy.com>:
:
::"Sheila King" <sheila at thinkspot.net> wrote in message
::news:vo9i6t04nhurgv2avmgoss4mg86ofcuhtv at 4ax.com...
::    [snip]
::> qmail = ["SENDER", "NEWSENDER", "RECIPIENT", "USER", "HOME", "HOST",
::"LOCAL",
::>     "EXT", "EXT2", "EXT3", "EXT4", "DTLINE", "RPLINE", "UFLINE"]
::
::Excellent, but perhaps closer to the original Perl might be
::
::qmail = 'SENDER NEWSENDER RECIPIENT USER HOME HOST LOCAL EXT EXT2 EXT3 \
::    EXT4 DTLINE RPLINE UFLINE'.split()
:
:Someone else sent me a similar suggestion in e-mail. Where is this documented?

I found the documentation, here:
http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/string-methods.html

Looks like 2.0 has really beefed up the string features? I was using 1.5.2
before (until recently).

:Believe me, I have been going over the docs THOROUGHLY and often! Is this a
:Python 2.0 feature? Or does it go back further? (I am using 2.0 right now,
:however, my web host only has 1.5.1 installed for everyone's use. I want to
:write a script, hopefully, that will run for everyone on the server.)

OK, so I decided to try this out on my host.
Running their install of Python (1.5.1):

Python 1.5.1 (#1, Sep  3 1998, 22:51:17)  [GCC 2.7.2.3] on linux-i386
Copyright 1991-1995 Stichting Mathematisch Centrum, Amsterdam
>>> qmail="SENDER RECIPIENT EXT HOST".split()
Traceback (innermost last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
AttributeError: 'string' object has no attribute 'split'
>>>  

Running my private install of 2.0 on the same host (but only I have access to
it):

Python 2.0 (#1, Jan 15 2001, 01:09:04)
[GCC 2.7.2.3] on linux2
Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> qmail="SENDER RECIPIEN EXT HOST".split()
>>> print qmail
['SENDER', 'RECIPIEN', 'EXT', 'HOST']
>>>   

On my host, with 1.5.1 the following works:

Python 1.5.1 (#1, Sep  3 1998, 22:51:17)  [GCC 2.7.2.3] on linux-i386
Copyright 1991-1995 Stichting Mathematisch Centrum, Amsterdam
>>> import string
>>> qmail=string.split("SENDER RECIPIENT EXT HOST")
>>> print qmail
['SENDER', 'RECIPIENT', 'EXT', 'HOST']
>>> 

Thanks for the tips. This was one thing I felt was quite awkward about the
Python script as compared to the original Perl script.

--
Sheila King
http://www.thinkspot.net/sheila/
http://www.k12groups.org/



From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Jan 16 01:24:40 2001
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 01:24:40 -0500
Subject: Search engine 'results' counts (was Re: PHP vs Python)
References: <eAs86.7767$ED.239213@news1.rdc1.bc.home.com> <6cn66t4pr42di71gip2re87evnorpqq63c@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3A63E928.12A56BC2@engcorp.com>

Alain TESIO wrote:
> 
> On Mon, 15 Jan 2001 01:42:34 GMT, "TC" <trclark at home.com> wrote:
> 
> >I did a quick search for deja python +php +review
[snip]
> >2-who has more users
> 
> from altavista :
> 
> python AND (mod_snake OR NOT snake) => 186,508 pages
> php => 177,182 pages (overestimated as it's the default extension)

On the topic of using search engines to compare counts 
of 'users' (not that I think you were very serious :), 
here's what you get from google:

'python -snake': 617,000 pages
'php': 9,990,000 pages

I'm not exactly sure what that means, and I didn't waste
my time looking beyond the first page.  I just strongly 
suspect this is yet another time when the 'pages found'
count is essentially meaningless.  

I think it may mean there are a lot of pages 
actually *written* with PHP, since this match probably 
includes all pages with the .PHP extension...  either
that or about 10% of all web pages are on the topic
of PHP. :)


From mlh at idi.ntnu.no  Wed Jan 31 20:02:59 2001
From: mlh at idi.ntnu.no (Magnus Lie Hetland)
Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 02:02:59 +0100
Subject: function attributes are like function objects
References: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0101242015290.2444-100000@z.glue.umd.edu> <mailman.980400568.16791.python-list@python.org> <3A78AE8D.C9D25694@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz>
Message-ID: <95acpj$sbe$1@tyfon.itea.ntnu.no>

"Greg Ewing" <greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz> wrote in message
news:3A78AE8D.C9D25694 at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz...
> Sean Reifschneider wrote:
> >
> > It didn't really
> > seem like they were missing so much as it seemed like they would act
> > more like everything else now...
>
> Everything? What about lists, dicts, tuples, file
> objects...?
>
> What's so special about functions that we need to
> be able to plonk arbitrary attributes on them, but
> not any other builtin types?

Now *that* would be nice (if we could do that, I mean).
Everything as objects... SmallTalk lurking in the
background. Sounds good to me...

--

  Magnus Lie Hetland      (magnus at hetland dot org)

 "Reality is what refuses to disappear when you stop
  believing in it"                 -- Philip K. Dick





From sandj.williams at gte.net  Mon Jan 22 22:36:09 2001
From: sandj.williams at gte.net (Steve Williams)
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 03:36:09 GMT
Subject: How do I know all thrown exceptions of a function?
References: <g3lb49.73s.ln@127.0.0.1> <94d93h$55d$1@troll.powertech.no> <mailman.980059223.25947.python-list@python.org> <Qeya6.7932$AH6.1260668@newsc.telia.net> <3A6B24F0.EA164698@gte.net> <94icr2$6kv$1@animus.fel.iae.nl> <3A6CDBDA.C3120F98@gte.net> <94ipci$afo$1@animus.fel.iae.nl>
Message-ID: <3A6CFD8E.BD473DFD@gte.net>

Carel Fellinger wrote:

> Steve Williams <sandj.williams at gte.net> wrote:
> ...
> > Ah yes, but ftplib (and the example in the code and in Beazley) does the
> > following:
>
> ...example snipped
>
> My point was that instead of
>
> >    from somelib import somefunc
>
> you should use
>
>      import somelib
>
> then the following would work
>
> >    try:
> >         somelib.somefunc()
> >    except somelib.myError:
> >         'do something about it'
>
> --
> groetjes, carel

Well, yes.  But that brings in all the other cruft in somelib, when we just
wanted somefunc.

We could also use

    from somelib import *

<1.0E-5 wink>

Now we are getting dangerously close to saying something like "don't ever use

    from somelib import somefunc

because we don't know the exceptions or how the exceptions are defined."

The original point of the thread, IIRC.




From sholden at holdenweb.com  Wed Jan 17 03:56:24 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 03:56:24 -0500
Subject: Python ActiveX Scripting Engine raising Unicode errors
Message-ID: <Wad96.5165$DI.56764@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>

Wonder if anyone can shed any light on this.

I'm processing a web form in Python  in the ASP environment, building a SQL
statement from the form content.

The first problem I'm having is that applying str() to empty form fields
seems to yield "None" rather than the empty string, which is slightly weird.
But apart from that things seem to happen OK until I get to a <textarea>. On
some database rows but not others I get the following traceback (de-mangled
to remove HTML encodings):

Traceback (innermost last):
  File ";<;Script Block >;";, line 10, in ?
    Stmt = pySQL.SQLUpdate(Request.Form, ";StdPage";, ((";Name";,";S";),),
(KeyVal,), Flist, ";";)
  File ";d:\steve\projects\python\pySQL.py";, line 53, in SQLUpdate
    Vl = Vl + ";'"; + pyLib.SQLesc(str(Form(f.FieldName))) + ";'";
  File ";d:\python20\win32com\client\dynamic.py";, line 165, in __str__
    return str(self.__call__())
UnicodeError: ASCII encoding error: ordinal not in range(128)
</font>
<p>
<font face="Arial" size=2>?</font>
<pre>return str(self.__call__())</pre>

As near as I can tell, the problem seems to be realted to taking the str()
of a long form field inside pySQL.py. By the time the error occurs,
apparently several <input type="text"> fields have already been successfully
handled.

On a related note, there is no pySQL.pyc anywhere on disk, and I'm wondering
if that's related.

regards
 Steve

--
Tools, training and technology to help you meet your information needs




From spike at oztourer.nl  Thu Jan 11 12:34:37 2001
From: spike at oztourer.nl (Steve Pike)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 17:34:37 GMT
Subject: ANNOUNCE: PikiePikie 0.1
Message-ID: <3a5dece4.25418094@news.cablewanadoo.nl>

PikiePikie is a Wiki clone written in Python and based on code from
the now defunct PikiPiki project. It supports interactive web sites
whereby anyone and everyone can modify the content of a site.

The project home page is at http://pikie.darktech.org/cgi/pikie and
the CGI source is available for download from
http://pikie.darktech.org/cgi/pikie?DownloadPage .

I am making this code available just before disappearing for 7 weeks'
holiday - something of a tradition on this list I believe :) - so
please do not expect much in the way of support for a while. I welcome
any feedback though and will respond as soon as possible.


From emile at fenx.com  Wed Jan 10 22:33:02 2001
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 19:33:02 -0800
Subject: Notice: Status of the PSU
References: <mailman.979166351.26314.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <93j9ic$a6et8$1@ID-11957.news.dfncis.de>

Ha, Ha, Ha!

The tim-bot (roswell) forgot the trademark sig.  Now we know
this is just forged flame-bait to get the PSU in trouble!

--

Emile van Sebille
emile at fenx.com
-------------------


"Tim Peters" <tim.one at home.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.979166351.26314.python-list at python.org...
> ["Martijn Faassen" -- like that's a real name]
> > Dear fellow PSU members,
>
> Stop right there!  The PSU does not exis
>
>




From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Thu Jan 18 04:47:08 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 10:47:08 +0100
Subject: Slicing and offsets
References: <945bvp$thj$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <946e5k017e@news2.newsguy.com>

<gustabares at my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:945bvp$thj$1 at nnrp1.deja.com...
> I got a newbie question here...
>
> >>> S = "spam"
> >>> S[0]
> 's'

S[0] -> the first item in sequence S.

> >>> S[1:]
> 'pam'

S[1:] -> all items in sequence S *except* the first one.

> >>>
>
> Why is it that when I slice S it's no longer the 0 offset anymore, but
> now it is 1?

Sorry, I don't understand that question.  Whether you're indexing
or slicing, the first element is at index 0; if you index at 1, or
slice from 1, you won't get the first element.

> >>> S[0:]
> 'spam'

if you do index at 0, or slice from 0, you WILL get the first
element (and, if a slice, possibly more elements afterwards).


> Thanks for any help and sorry for the simple question:)

Anything BUT simple -- I don't understand what the question IS!


Alex





From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Wed Jan 31 17:19:57 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 23:19:57 +0100
Subject: Design for slices
References: <959uue$k02$1@cubacola.tninet.se>
Message-ID: <95a32g01r5f@news1.newsguy.com>

"Gustaf Liljegren" <gustafl at algonet.se> wrote in message
news:959uue$k02$1 at cubacola.tninet.se...
> I'm learning Python and have a question about defining ranges/slices in
> strings. I can't find any defence for what looks like a poor design, so I
> have to ask. Why is the first character in the string x defined as x[0]
and
> not x[1]? This looks just like the typical geek thinking that I'm trying
to
> avoid with Python.

I've seen geeks enough around here (including yours truly) that I
doubt you'll "avoid geek thinking" with Python.  It's just superior
geekhood, not non-geekdom...

Indexing sequences from zero (all sequences are indexed with
the same principles -- it would be a major hassle if they weren't)
is just too practical.  "The first N items of X" are X[:N], just as the
*last* N are X[-N:] -- how much handier and more symmetrical
can you get?  If you ever find yourself mapping richer structures
inside a linear sequence you'll truly bless zero-indexing -- back
in Fortran IV times, when its arrays were indexed from one, I
recall I was all the time subtracting 1 here and having to add it
back over there during index calculations (of course, the horrors
of the upper-bound-*included* idiom were partly responsible --
the current pervasiveness of upper-bound-*excluded* is just as
important as zero-based indices to help eliminating darned
off-by-one errors)...


Alex





From tim.one at home.com  Thu Jan  4 20:26:20 2001
From: tim.one at home.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 20:26:20 -0500
Subject: AMK's ZODB package on Win32
In-Reply-To: <3A551D59.7E31974D@ActiveState.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCOEMNIGAA.tim.one@home.com>

[Paul Prescod]
>
> I was going to try the compile and see if it was easy but I note
> that you have filenames of ZEO and zeo in the directory ZEO.

Note that this is already the subject of a bug report from the last
millennium <wink>:

http://sourceforge.net/bugs/?func=detailbug&bug_id=126724&group_id=15628




From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Fri Jan 26 11:04:13 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 17:04:13 +0100
Subject: xor operator?
References: <20010126125141.18593.qmail@nw128.netaddress.usa.net> <mailman.980517875.10931.python-list@python.org> <3A7188A9.1482CA3D@divalsim.it> <3A71951D.20A2@hvision.nl>
Message-ID: <94s75s02hfg@news2.newsguy.com>

"Hans Nowak" <ivnowa at hvision.nl> wrote in message
news:3A71951D.20A2 at hvision.nl...
    [snip]
> > In the specific Python
> > > sense, the return value of the boolean xor operation would also be
vague.
>
> Simply 0 or 1 would be a possibility, but that is not what Python's
> 'and' and 'or' do. So maybe, if it evaluates to true, it returns the
> 'true' element; otherwise it returns 0 (like 'and' and 'or' do).

My approach was somewhat different:

def xor(a, b):
    if not a: return b
    if not b: return a

This returns one of the two arguments *if possible at all* -- if
only one is true, that one; if both are false, one of them (in
this coding, as it happens, the second one -- though here I'd
really like a non-deterministic Djikstra guarded-statement more
than a deterministic/sequential approach, but, oh well:-).

Only when both arguments are true is it impossible to return
either argument, and then I prefer to return None -- inter alia,
because that is what happens automatically.

Note that it's *NOT* true that Python's 'and' and 'or' "return 0";
they ALWAYS return the value of one of the arguments you have
passed!!!  'and' returns the first if false, else the second;
'or' returns the first if true, else the second.

Check this...:

for a, b in [(x,y) for x in ['','x'] for y in [[],[7]]]:
    print "%6r & %6r -> %6r" % (
        a, b, a and b)
print
for a, b in [(x,y) for x in ['','x'] for y in [[],[7]]]:
    print "%6r | %6r -> %6r" % (
        a, b, a or b)
print
for a, b in [(x,y) for x in ['','x'] for y in [[],[7]]]:
    print "%6r ^ %6r -> %6r" % (
        a, b, xor(a,b))
print

This will emit:

    '' &     [] ->     ''
    '' &    [7] ->     ''
   'x' &     [] ->     []
   'x' &    [7] ->    [7]

    '' |     [] ->     []
    '' |    [7] ->    [7]
   'x' |     [] ->    'x'
   'x' |    [7] ->    'x'

    '' ^     [] ->     []
    '' ^    [7] ->    [7]
   'x' ^     [] ->    'x'
   'x' ^    [7] ->   None

as you can see -- no 0 in sight; the output value will
ALWAYS be one of the two input ones -- except for the
very last case of xor, where a 'None' (or other false
value, but None seems most Pythonic) must be inserted.


Alex






From dsh8290 at rit.edu  Tue Jan 23 17:08:17 2001
From: dsh8290 at rit.edu (D-Man)
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 17:08:17 -0500
Subject: How do I know all thrown exceptions of a function?
In-Reply-To: <slrn96rk66.ugd.scarblac@pino.selwerd.nl>; from scarblac@pino.selwerd.nl on Tue, Jan 23, 2001 at 06:48:45PM +0000
References: <g3lb49.73s.ln@127.0.0.1> <94d93h$55d$1@troll.powertech.no> <mailman.980059223.25947.python-list@python.org> <slrn96rk66.ugd.scarblac@pino.selwerd.nl>
Message-ID: <20010123170817.C22126@harmony.cs.rit.edu>

On Tue, Jan 23, 2001 at 06:48:45PM +0000, Remco Gerlich wrote:
| Sean Reifschneider <jafo at tummy.com> wrote in comp.lang.python:
| > On Sun, Jan 21, 2001 at 01:02:36AM +0100, Syver Enstad wrote:
| > >Couldn't you use the source?
| > 
| > Yeah, I suppose so.  I don't think you should *HAVE* to review the code of
| > the libraries you call, AND *EVERYTHING* that *THEY* call.  It's not an
| > effective use of my time...  I usually just end up leaving it and track
| > down what exceptions get thrown later.  Luckily, Python exceptions are
| > (almost) user-readable.
| 
| I've been thinking about good guidelines to solve this.
| 
| - Obviously, document all your error conditions.

Yes, obviously.  To answer the original poster's question:  it shoud
be documented by the module/function.  RTFM :-).

| - All the exceptions your code explicitly throws should inherit
|   some base exception defined in your module, so that that can
|   be tested for.

I agree with this.  It makes handling all exceptions of a certain
classification easy.

| - Avoid throwing exceptions that have to do with your implementation
|   to the outside world. If your module function gets an argument that
|   is out of range, resulting in an IndexError, don't just pass that on
|   to the caller but catch it and raise a custom exception yourself,
|   that inherits from your module's standard exception. Hide your
|   implementation.

I agree with this as well.  I did this when modifying a library to
actually throw exceptions :-).  It had try{ ... } catch( Exception e ) {
return false ; } in it.  (Java lib someone else copied from a C lib).
It made the errors much more useful.

| - Obviously trying to change exceptions that aren't caused by your code
|   (like KeyboardInterrupt) is of no use.

How about ComputerExplodingError :-).  

| 
| Comments?
| 

Very good ideas; and like much of Python it relies on programmers
doing the Right Thing rather than trying to make a compiler to do the
right thing instead (a la Java).

| -- 
| Remco Gerlich
| -- 

-D




From andrew_dot_henshaw_at_earthling_dot_net  Thu Jan 11 22:18:46 2001
From: andrew_dot_henshaw_at_earthling_dot_net (Andrew Henshaw)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 22:18:46 -0500
Subject: why no "do : until"?
References: <mailman.979188492.12187.python-list@python.org> <90278A4rcamesz@127.0.0.1> <mailman.979261813.31482.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <t5su71caku5gd0@corp.supernews.com>

"D-Man" <dsh8290 at rit.edu> wrote in message
news:mailman.979261813.31482.python-list at python.org...
> On Fri, Jan 12, 2001 at 12:33:58AM +0000, Robert Amesz wrote:
> [snip]
...snip
> | As I prefer programming languages to be as context-free as possible,
> | I'd like to make a counter-proposal:
> |
> |      do:
> |           something
> |           until condition
> |           something else
> |
>
> This also breaks the indent-denotes-block-structure style.  Is the
> "until" clause really a part of the "something" block?  If it is
> adopted I think it ought to stand out more tying it more closely to
> the "do".  I wouldn't mind if, say, the until was to recieve a
> half-indent (or half-dedent depending on your view) as compared to the
> "something" and "something else" blocks.

...snip...
An admirable idea, but I fear that it is much too exotic to ever be
approved.  I'm in agreement about the block structure problem, however.

In my opinion, allowing an 'until' to roam about the loop, will never fit
with Python's indentation design.  It's not clear what is controlled by the
statement.

Oh the other hand, I'm all for the introduction of 'do'.  It's much cleaner
(to me) and simpler then 'while 1'. Also, I feel that beginners would grasp
it more quickly ("while 1?, while 1 what? shouldn't there be a conditional
on this line?").  Therefore, I propose, for these cases that Python simply
support:

do:
    something
    if condition: break
    something else

Python's existing 'if condition: break', with its colon, stands out and,
more clearly than the 'until', shows its true function; which is,
essentially, a goto past 'something else' and out of the loop.  I believe
that support for this is more likely than for the other more significant
changes.

AH





From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Tue Jan 30 03:41:02 2001
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 09:41:02 +0100
Subject: . Python 2.1 function attributes
References: <95432j014on@news2.newsguy.com>, <mailman.980717974.17843.python-list@python.org> <mailman.980839535.28757.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <955umt0923@news2.newsguy.com>

"Moshe Zadka" <moshez at zadka.site.co.il> wrote in message
news:mailman.980839535.28757.python-list at python.org...
> On Mon, 29 Jan 2001 16:43:13 +0100, "Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com>
wrote:
>
> > It _does_ interestingly contradict Guido's posts at the time,
> > requesting _arguments_ (NOT "experiences") -- which, to me and I
> > guess to other respondents, implied that the requested arguments
> > *would* have a bit to do with something; I'm less surprised, now
> > that I hear this, that said arguments mattered not a whit.
>
> Alex, your hatred for print>> has caused you to rewrite history<wink>.
> Guido asked for "arguments, not votes".

...and then proceeded to dismiss the arguments he had requested, in
a rather unconvincing way, not even answering all of the "first round"
of them, much less any responses to his first answers.  Where is
the 'history-rewriting' in this?  I got the impression at the time
that his mind was already made up -- now, hearing confirmation that
it WAS thus made up (through his own personal experience) makes it
all fit together pretty well (I'm left to wonder why he bothered to
even try to give the appearance that arguments might matter).


> Experience with using a feature
> certainly counts as an argument -- experience with not using it does not,
> however. Life is horribly asymmetric <0.7 wink>

Oh really?  Let's hear some arguments about voluntarily cutting off
your left foot, then... do you REALLY believe that somebody having
chosen such a peculiar course of action "counts as an argument"?!
If such logic as you're now using for these rationalizations did in
fact rule our actions, we'd all be hopping along on one foot.

Take Stackless, for example.  Have you ever heard arguments against
it from anybody WITH experience using it?  So, IF "arguments from
experience" were indeed decisive, *WHY* isn't it in the core?


Alex





From NoSpam at NoSpam.com  Tue Jan  2 13:23:45 2001
From: NoSpam at NoSpam.com (Tom)
Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2001 18:23:45 GMT
Subject: How can I set the file creation time on Win2K??
Message-ID: <R0p46.67807$59.19567626@news3.rdc1.on.home.com>

I'm trying to set the creation time of a file using Python 2.0 on Win2K.

I get the file times with os.stat.
os.utime doesn't support creation time (presumably because it isn't
supported on Unix's).

Win32file supports the GetFileTime() Win32 function, but it doesn't seem to
support SetFileTime().

Is there any way to do this?

TIA, Tom.




From amritansh at mobilian.com  Wed Jan 24 20:59:19 2001
From: amritansh at mobilian.com (Amritansh Raghav)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 17:59:19 -0800
Subject: __set_attr__
Message-ID: <t6v3s5fv3t7f3e@corp.supernews.com>

(Newbie alert - its been less than a week)

Under what circumstances does __set_attr__ get callled? I thought it was
only if the name wasnt found in the dictionary. However I can see my
function being called even when the name is present. (I print out
self.__dict__ and also do a self.__dict__.has_key(name) just to make sure
there isnt a spelling error).
This is happening within my constructor so I wonder if I need to do
something special here
Any help is appreciated
Thanks




From alan.gauld at gssec.bt.co.uk  Fri Jan  5 08:08:07 2001
From: alan.gauld at gssec.bt.co.uk (Alan Gauld)
Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 13:08:07 +0000
Subject: newbie : edit sys.path on WinNT
References: <9339sf$fit$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <3A55C737.A8C36BD5@gssec.bt.co.uk>

buster2642 at my-deja.com wrote:
> I just installed NumPy16_152 into my 'D:\Program Files\Python' folder.
> How do I "permanently" add this to sys.path so 'import Numeric'
> succeeds?  I may or may not have admin access to the NT box to do this..

There are several ways, try searching deja news for PYTHONPATH

My favourite is to set the PYTHONPATH environment variable in NT
via Control Panel|System and the Environment tab.

You just add to it using the same syntax as the DOS PATH
and Python reads it at startup.


Alan g

-- 
=================================================
This post represents the views of the author 
and does not necessarily accurately represent 
the views of BT.


From p.g at figu.no  Tue Jan 30 03:14:14 2001
From: p.g at figu.no (Per Gummedal)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 09:14:14 +0100
Subject: Python and Industry, IBM I'm afraid
In-Reply-To: <3A75A95F.B780ECC8@ifi.it>
References: <20010111172342.10148.00000934@ng-ca1.aol.com>
 <HnO86.78962$_G5.11779533@typhoon.nyroc.rr.com>
 <3A63D9E8.F9B74ACE@mjs400.co.uk>
 <mailman.979825467.28077.python-list@python.org>
 <3A729E57.6CE19B86@katamail.com>
 <mailman.980764315.7504.python-list@python.org> <3A75A95F.B780ECC8@ifi.it>
Message-ID: <42947592716.20010130091414@figu.no>

29.01.2001, 18:33, Stefano wrote:

>>
>> Python 2.0 compiled to V4R3 or higher.
>> 
> :-(((  I'm still on V4R2M0

I'm sorry but the problem with compiling to V4R2 is that it require
the source to be stored in sourcefiles and I use the IFS.
(But maybe later.)

Per





From amk at mira.erols.com  Thu Jan 18 22:21:31 2001
From: amk at mira.erols.com (A.M. Kuchling)
Date: 19 Jan 2001 03:21:31 GMT
Subject: Garbage collector - please Help !!
References: <9475ob$c6v$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <kusnmgd86f.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi> <947vml$fd0$1@news.udel.edu>
Message-ID: <slrn96fdfr.52f.amk@207-172-36-33.s33.tnt6.ann.va.dialup.rcn.com>

On Thu, 18 Jan 2001 18:54:33 -0500, Terry Reedy <tjreedy at udel.edu> wrote:
>> the reference counting gc in python 1.5 does not work if you have
>> cyclic references between objects. it is fixed in 2.0.
>
>If you explicitly import the gc module and call the gc function.

No, you don't need to import the gc module, which simply provides
tools for tuning the garbage collector and using it for debugging.  As
long as Python 2.0 wasn't compiled with GC disabled, cyclical data
structures should be collected (modulo a few known bugs fixed in 2.1).

--amk



From vsbabu at erols.com  Thu Jan 11 19:07:29 2001
From: vsbabu at erols.com (Satheesh Babu)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 19:07:29 -0500
Subject: ActivePython2.0 - Server Side objects for ASP problem
References: <93j0qi$7cv$1@bob.news.rcn.net> <tK876.2719$24.38513@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com> <93k6k5$1g7$1@bob.news.rcn.net>
Message-ID: <93lhqt$aa0$1@bob.news.rcn.net>

Hello All,

Many thanks for all the tips. I got it all working now. To clarify:
1. Mixing languages won't work - I meant in a single ASP script
    you can't have <%@ LANGUAGE="" %> things. So, if I try
    to include a Python part inside ASP code in VBS, doesn't
    work.
    Trying include files also doesn't work. However, like in my code,
   <script language="Python" runat="server>PYTHON CODE</script>
   works.

2. COM objects - I've my boss' agreement on moving to UNIX/LINUX
    soon. (but is on hold for the time being because of NT administrators)
    Me or my team lacks experience in COM object creation now and
    I think it is a waste of time to check that out. All I remember is C++
    from college days!

3. I think Python is a great language (I used to love Perl when I was
    a one-man show). But now, making team maintainable code is my
    responsibility and I think Python is the way to go.

4. We use Zope extensively, internally. I'm in the process of selling
    Zope to our NT admins.

And finally - I HATE VBscript. And I really want to cut down my investment
in ASP/VBScript and the so-called standard-operating-environment software.

Thanks everyone

--
v.s.babu
vsbabu at erols.com
http://vsbabu.csoft.net
"Satheesh Babu" <vsbabu at erols.com> wrote in message
news:93k6k5$1g7$1 at bob.news.rcn.net...
> Hi Steve,
>
> That worked! Thanks...
>
> My actual requirement is not to gather HTML pages (I've one for that in
100%
> python ASP
> and by setting a BASE HREF, it works fine). I have this proprietary
software
> from a vendor
> which runs a server on some port and it accepts some commands on that
port.
> My requirement
> is to generate these commands on the fly, send it to this server and get
> response, from many
> ASP pages. I don't know how to do network programming in ASP/VBScript. In
> Python I've
> already written something which works, using socket library. My initial
> thought was to embed
> that Python code into my ASP scripts - won't work since ASP (atleast my
> installation) doesn't
> allow mixing of different languages. Making a COM object on the server is
> also beyond me.
> So, I got this idea and was just checking it out.
>
> Many thanks again
>
>
> --
> v.s.babu
> vsbabu at erols.com
> http://vsbabu.csoft.net
> "Steve Holden" <sholden at holdenweb.com> wrote in message
> news:tK876.2719$24.38513 at e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com...
> > "Satheesh Babu" <vsbabu at erols.com> wrote in message
> > news:93j0qi$7cv$1 at bob.news.rcn.net...
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > I'm trying to use a server side python object to be called from a
> VBScript
> > > ASP code.
> > > It works nicely for simple things. When I try to use urllib functions,
I
> > get
> > > an error. Any
> > > idea? The second function works nicely. I'm using Win98, PWS with
> > Build202.
> > > I'll try
> > > on NT4.0 IIS tomorrow. Any help is greatly appreciated.
> > >
> > > ----------------- ASP file -----------------
> > > <% @LANGUAGE="VBSCRIPT" %>
> > > <!--#include file="pymod.asp"-->
> > > <%= SlurpURL("http://vsbabu.csoft.net/") %>
> > > <%= CapitalizeIt("the first letter should be capitalized") %>
> > >
> > > ----------------pymod.asp------------------
> > > <script language='python' runat='server'>
> > > from urllib import *
> > > from string import *
> >
> > # Is this safe? from module import * is often not a good idea unless
> > # the module has been designed with that in mind...
> >
> > >
> > > def SlurpURL(i_url):
> > >     f = urlopen(i_url)
> >
> > # Try changing preceding line to read f = urlopen(str(i_url))
> >
> > >     o_data = f.read()
> > >     f.close()
> > >     return o_data
> > >
> > > def CapitalizeIt(i_str)
> > >     return capitalize(i_str)
> >
> > # Maybe this would need to be return capitalize(str(i_str)) as well
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > </script>
> > > ------------------ error message -----------------
> > > Python ActiveX Scripting Engine error '80020009'
> > >
> > > Traceback (innermost last): File "<Script Block >", line 4, in
SlurpURL
> f
> > =
> > > urlopen(i_url) File "c:\python20\lib\urllib.py", line 61, in urlopen
> > return
> > > _urlopener.open(url) File "c:\python20\lib\urllib.py", line 166, in
open
> > > return getattr(self, name)(url) File "c:\python20\lib\urllib.py", line
> > 248,
> > > in open_http host, selector = url ValueError: unpack sequence of wrong
> > size
> > >
> > > ?
> > >
> > > host, selector = url
> > >
> > > ======================
> >
> > With the changes above I get *something* other than an error message in
my
> > browser window, but of course because you aren't re-interpreting the
HTML
> as
> > you pass it through, all the links are broken and no graphics appear.
> >
> > You might want to consider adding a <BASE> tag to your page, quoting the
> > original URL and therefore persuading your browser to interpret embedded
> > URLs correctly.
> >
> > regards
> >  Steve
> >
> >
>
>




From drifty at my-deja.com  Sat Jan 13 01:09:24 2001
From: drifty at my-deja.com (drifty at my-deja.com)
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 06:09:24 GMT
Subject: Strange exceptions raised by os.renames and shutil.copytree
Message-ID: <93orei$sur$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

I am writing a program that involves the step of moving a directory in
its entirety (although that entirety is a single level directory) into a
storage directory.  So if the directory is 'C:\\spam', I am trying to
move it to 'C:\\Storage\\Spam' .  But the problem is that the two ways I
am trying to do this keep throwing me error messages (albeit not
consistently).

First, I tried


def mvDir (src, dst):
    shutil.copytree(src, dst)
    shutil.rmtree(src)


But I get OSError [errno 2] while performing the shutil.copytree() step,
saying that the dst directory does not exist.  But it is supposed to not
exist!  Copytree requires that it not exist!

The second way I tried was using os.renames(), but that raised OSError
[errno 13].  Now I realize that normally this would be resolved by
making sure that all files in the directory being renamed were closed,
but the problem is that I don't have any files open from the directory.
 The only thing the program has done to the source directory up to that
point is os.listdir() and os.path.isdir() on the directory.

Now all of this is being tried under Windows 98, so I have no idea if
this is Windows-specific or not.  I also don't understand why sometimes
the errors are not thrown.  I can just uncomment one of the commands and
it will work.  But try again and it raises an error.

Any help would be greatly appreciated since I am stumped on this and I
would like to be able to move beyond this point in my program.

-Brett


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From dnew at san.rr.com  Tue Jan 23 18:38:17 2001
From: dnew at san.rr.com (Darren New)
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 23:38:17 GMT
Subject: How do I know all thrown exceptions of a function?
References: <mailman.980206644.31124.python-list@python.org> <94imre$7dd$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net> <mailman.980288308.22203.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3A6E15EB.BEDAF079@san.rr.com>

D-Man wrote:
> I agree that it is ugly to have to declare all possible exception
> types.  That's not to say you shouldn't document it, but it should be
> /documented/ not forced by the /compiler/.

The other problem, of course, is using frameworks. When library code calls
yours, and you want to debug what it's doing, it's very difficult. If you
(for example) get an IOException in your code, and the library doesn't
accept your function throwing that error, you have to catch it there instead
of propagating it upwards to be caught in your code that calls the library.

MyCode ()
   YourCode()
     MyOtherCode()

MyOtherCode has to handle every error, instead of letting MyCode handle
some.

-- 
Darren New / Senior MTS & Free Radical / Invisible Worlds Inc.
San Diego, CA, USA (PST).  Cryptokeys on demand.
"It says this wine has syphilis."
               "I think that's pronounced `sulphates'."


From sholden at holdenweb.com  Fri Jan 19 01:48:35 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 01:48:35 -0500
Subject: I will kill my Python
References: <mailman.979852022.13720.python-list@python.org> <947r18$rdt$1@news.online.de> <948f09$i96$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Message-ID: <YuR96.8838$LZ5.76775@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com>

<thelazydogsback at my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:948f09$i96$1 at nnrp1.deja.com...
>
>
[ ... ]
> On a related topic, I've seen some Microsoft bashing here as well (not
> just this post.) There's certainly nothing wrong with that (It's a
> profession for some) but I must say that in some cases it reduces
> Python's credibility. I want to see people using it because it works
> for them, not just because they hate the evil Micro$oft and would
> rather code with toggle-switches than use anything built even 500 miles
> from Redmond. Just some thoughts...
>
Well, I can't speak for the rest, but for me Microsoft bashing is more along
the lines of a recreation than a religion. If Microsoft started taking
contracts out on their detractors it might make me behave. They have broad
shoulders, and my sarcasm certainly isn't going to stop them being the
success they so clearly are. It seems to me that the Pythonista community is
a broad church, largely peopled by pragmatists who use whichever tools are
appropriate to solve the problems they face.

Nobody who uses Python would ever DREAM of using toggle switches (and I've
done too much of that in my time to remember it especially fondly. By the
seven hundredth time you've entered bootstrap code into a Univac 418 the
activity has somehow lost most of its essential charm).

As far as open source language projects go, Python came to Windows early and
comprehensively, thanks largely to Guido's determination to remain as
platform-netrual as possible.

Also, Mark Hammond's excellent job of Windows support makes the whole
language my preferred programming environment on Windows. Despite having
Visual Studio Enterprise Edition. Python's help files are smaller, too!

even-though-windows-sucks-we-are-stuck-with-it-ly y'rs  - steve



From kc5tja at garnet.armored.net  Tue Jan  2 20:41:28 2001
From: kc5tja at garnet.armored.net (Samuel A. Falvo II)
Date: 2 Jan 2001 17:41:28 -0800
Subject: why no "do : until"?
References: <92jj3j$ff7$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <92m9pm$d19$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <B3z36.122$9s1.18804@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com> <3A4EC5B1.8912E571@engcorp.com> <x8G36.156$9s1.31209@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com> <3A4F4B4D.ECD6B172@engcorp.com> <rBr46.7783$4c.597712@ruti.visi.com>
Message-ID: <slrn9550fe.rvi.kc5tja@garnet.armored.net>

On Tue, 02 Jan 2001 21:19:19 GMT, Grant Edwards wrote:
>>while (1)
>>   {
>>   T = f();
>>   if (T < 25)
>>       break;
>>   }
>>
>>Use of that convention is probably what has made me quite happy with
>>Python's indentation style, which essentially matches this pattern.
>
>I used that C indentation style for years, but I finally gave
>up since a) I could never get editors and the "indent" program
>to do it automatically, and b) nobody else on my projects
>wanted to do it that way, and it's important that all the
>source code on a project be indented consistently.

That method is almost always self-inconsistent as well.  Most of the people
I see using that technique writes code like this:

void f( int c )
{
   int x = 0;
   
   while( x < c )
      {
      printf( "X=%d\n", x );
      x++;
      }
}

Note that indentation occurs at the outer-most scope only; beyond that, the
"method 3" approach is used.

To make it self-consistent, you need to do this:

void f2( int c )
   {
   int x = 0;
   
   while( x < c )
      {
      printf( "X=%d\n", x );
      x++;
      }
   }

Though both methods are equally readable to me, I consider it to be rather
ugly syntax.  For me, braces represent the start and end of the containing
scope of the element before (in this case the while statement).  As such,
they are part of the *while* statement, not of the contained code.  I like
to think of the braces as a box within which I put statements.  The box is a
logically separate entity for me -- a quantifiable container that is really
quite independent of the contents, yet still allowing me to treat the
interior contents as a cohesive whole, as any cardboard box would be.  Thus,
I'd write the above as follows:

int f3( int c )
{
   int x = 0;
   
   while( x < c )
   {			/* <-- the while "box" */
      printf( "X=%d\n", x );
      x++;
   }
}

It also provides a sense of visual closure, which is a great help to me when
debugging.

However, the other view can also be considered -- the braces envelop a
sequence of code to be treated as a single, logical statement, which of
course statements like while() accept.  Thus, indenting them, along with the
contained statements, also makes sense *if* you think of them in this way.

There's really no right or wrong way -- it's all just a matter of personal
preference.  However, I suspect that debugging habits and commonly found
typographical errors in the source code for large projects is what led many
people to adopt their respective methods of indentation.  It all depends on
the task at hand, I guess.

-- 
KC5TJA/6, DM13, QRP-L #1447 | Official Channel Saint, *Team Amiga*
Samuel A. Falvo II	    |
Oceanside, CA		    |


From sholden at holdenweb.com  Fri Jan 12 21:10:08 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 21:10:08 -0500
Subject: config for Python as the IIS hosted ASP script Lang
References: <lvN76.998430$8u4.20950501@news1.rdc1.bc.home.com>
Message-ID: <5SO76.18001$Im.155084@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>

"TC" <trclark at home.com> wrote in message
news:lvN76.998430$8u4.20950501 at news1.rdc1.bc.home.com...
> Hi ALL
> Yeb newbie,
> Install BEOPen v2.0 on NT4.0
> got *.py to run as IIS CGI's
> searched the FAQ's http://www.python.org/doc/FAQ.html
> BUT I can't see how to config iis to run Python as a script lang on an asp
> page
> like
> <%@ Language=Python %>
> <%
> import cgl
> cgi.test()
> %>
>
> What is the secret ??
> I thought that the BEOpen WIN32 install would have done the
> registry magic
>
Nope.  You need PythonCOM, which comes as a part of Mark Hammond's Win32
extensions.  Look up Active Python at www.activestate.com - it's an add-on.

regards
 Steve




From DavidLNoNoSpammy at raqia.com  Tue Jan 16 12:24:29 2001
From: DavidLNoNoSpammy at raqia.com (David Lees)
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 12:24:29 -0500
Subject: Python equivalent of 'use strict'
Message-ID: <3A6483CD.CB2424E0@raqia.com>

I finally got my perl/C++ guru friend to look at Learning Python and
some of my code.  He had some (unreasonable?) questions that maybe
someone can comment on.

Is there an equivalent to the perl 'use strict'?  He is concerned with
accidentally initializing values of mistyped variables.  I showed him
how you get an error doing an operation with an uninitialized variable
such as the following:

foo = 1
fooo += 5

But he is looking for this 'use strict' stuff.


david lees


From bowman at montana.com  Fri Jan 19 21:50:03 2001
From: bowman at montana.com (bowman)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 19:50:03 -0700
Subject: odd NT installation problem
Message-ID: <z27a6.6393$d25.38899@newsfeed.slurp.net>

I tried installing the ActiveState .msi distro. I downloaded the installer
with no problem,
but it reported the .msi wasn't a proper msi.

So, I got the BeOpen 2.0 executable, and the Tcl/Tk 8.3 packages. Tcl
installed fine, but the
Python said it detected a corrupted installation.

So, I got Python16.exe. Another corrupted installation.

Finally Python1.52 installed without a whimper.

I'm using a rather tortuous route, as my Linux box can get out on the net,
but the NT one
can't. So I download onto the Linux drive, which is exported as a share
using Samba, and
transfer it to the d: drive.

I'm thinking there is some voodoo with files exceeding 5 meg, and the 1.52
package weighs
in under 5. Has anyone seen similar weirdness?






From skip at mojam.com  Tue Jan 16 05:55:32 2001
From: skip at mojam.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 04:55:32 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Script performance: Filtering email
In-Reply-To: <nu386t8g081r90fskfbsnvqvrjf3a1egkf@4ax.com>
References: <nu386t8g081r90fskfbsnvqvrjf3a1egkf@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <14948.10404.146106.399155@beluga.mojam.com>

    Sheila> Strangely enough, these missing e-mails eventually
    Sheila> appeared. Some of them, over an hour from the time they hit my
    Sheila> web host's mail servers until they hit my mailbox. Some of them
    Sheila> about a half hour. Some about seven minutes.

    Sheila> Could my little 26 line Python script be causing this? It
    Sheila> doesn't seem that 45 minutes to an hour is about normal for an
    Sheila> email to go through on my web host.  Performance there is
    Sheila> usually very good, and I never saw it take that long before.

Most likely it was due to congestion at your web host's mail servers.  To
figure this out, simply check the timestamps in the Received headers to see
when the message(s) in question got to what intermediate host(s).

BTW, someone already wrote a fairly sophisticated spam filter in Python.  It
uses a somewhat different model than yours (I think it actually runs as an
intermediary SMTP server), but it may have some tricks you could employ,
even if you couldn't use it lock-stock-and-barrel.  Check the Vaults of
Parnassus for details.

-- 
Skip Montanaro (skip at mojam.com)
Support the Mojam.com Affiliates Program: http://www.mojam.com/affl/
(847)971-7098



From msandin at remove_this.hotmail.com  Sat Jan 20 03:49:27 2001
From: msandin at remove_this.hotmail.com (Martin Sandin)
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 09:49:27 +0100
Subject: Tabbing/Spaces
References: <mailman.979955644.18879.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <94bjhl$as2$1@news.gu.se>

"Tim Peters" <tim.one at home.com> skrev i meddelandet
news:mailman.979955644.18879.python-list at python.org...

> *Mixing* tabs and spaces is insane in Python source.

Insane it might be, but it is what is "recommended" in GvR's style guide:

'Tabs or Spaces?
One indentation level is 4 spaces. Two levels is one tab. Three levels is a
tab and 4 spaces, and so on. Python doesn't mind if you indent one line with
8 spaces and the next line with a tab -- they are considered to have the
same indentation. Replacing all tabs with spaces is more robust in the light
of some editors on the Mac or PC (which default to displaying the tab
character as 4 spaces instead of 8, as God intended) but this can be done on
transfer to such platforms.'

Available from python.org, documentations GvR's essays :-)

Me? A tab is 4 spaces, I hard tab indent my code. It's the easiest and
fastest way for moving my code tab levels.

-
Martin
come.to/vague




From Dan.Rolander at marriott.com  Fri Jan 19 10:51:29 2001
From: Dan.Rolander at marriott.com (Rolander, Dan)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 10:51:29 -0500
Subject: py2exe - convert python scripts into exe files (windows)
Message-ID: <6176E3D8E36FD111B58900805FA7E0F80CCF62E2@mcnc-mdm1-ex01>

Hi Thomas,

I saw your announcement of py2exe on the python list and I'm very excited
about it. But I just tried it and it gave these errors:

Searching modules needed to run 'pineapplemain.py'
warning: py2exe: ************************************************
warning: py2exe: * The following modules were not found:
warning: py2exe: *    pwd
warning: py2exe: *    xml.parsers.pyexpat
warning: py2exe: *    xml.sax.saxlib
warning: py2exe: *    org.python.core
warning: py2exe: *    MACFS
warning: py2exe: *    ic
warning: py2exe: *    ce
warning: py2exe: *    java.lang
warning: py2exe: *    macfs
warning: py2exe: *    SOCKS
warning: py2exe: *    termios
warning: py2exe: *    EasyDialogs
warning: py2exe: *    TERMIOS
warning: py2exe: *    xml.sax.saxexts
warning: py2exe: ************************************************

Do I need to explicity import these in the setup.py script? I'm sorry but
I'm not that familiar with the distutils.

Thanks,
Dan

-----Original Message-----
From: Thomas Heller [mailto:thomas.heller at ion-tof.com]
Sent: Friday, January 19, 2001 9:13 AM
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: py2exe - convert python scripts into exe files (windows)


I've created a distutils extension to convert python scripts
into standalone windows executable files.
You end up with an exe-file as well as pythonxx.dll
plus some .pyd's.

This is more or less a rewrite of Gordon's installer project.

Homepage: http://starship.python.net/crew/theller/py2exe/

Compatibility: Python 1.5 or later.

License: BSD

Regards,

Thomas Heller



-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list



From amk at mira.erols.com  Fri Jan 26 20:36:36 2001
From: amk at mira.erols.com (A.M. Kuchling)
Date: 27 Jan 2001 01:36:36 GMT
Subject: defining class
References: <LPENKAFBJDPOFHMCEBOMIEFJCDAA.aleksei.guzev@bigfoot.com> <mailman.980516552.9481.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrn974abd.29n.amk@mira.erols.com>

On Fri, 26 Jan 2001 07:47:00 -0600, 
	Chris Gonnerman <chris.gonnerman at usa.net> wrote:
>Further down you are referred to a page about Python's metaclass feature.
>There they actually explain how you can do what you want to do.  For
>reference, the URL of that page is:

ExtensionClass from Digital Creations allows implementing class-like
objects in C, though the resulting objects are *not* Python instances,
which causes a few incompatibilities, such as isinstance() not working
on them.

--amk


From tdelaney at avaya.com  Wed Jan 10 21:56:58 2001
From: tdelaney at avaya.com (Delaney, Timothy)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 13:56:58 +1100
Subject: boolean xor
Message-ID: <B43D149A9AB2D411971300B0D03D7E8B0FBD88@natasha.auslabs.avaya.com>

Nope ... we're wanting a *logical* xor ...

def xor_wrong(a,b):
	return not(a==b)

def xor_right(a,b):
	return not((not a) == (not b))

print xor_wrong(0,1)
print xor_wrong(1,1)
print xor_wrong(2,1)

print xor_right(0,1)
print xor_right(1,1)
print xor_right(2,1)

Tim Delaney
Avaya Australia
+61 2 9352 9079

> -----Original Message-----
> From: ndev42 at yahoo.com [mailto:ndev42 at yahoo.com]
> Sent: Thursday, 11 January 2001 4:56 AM
> To: python-list at python.org
> Subject: Re: boolean xor
> 
> 
> 
> > I need a boolean (not bit-wise) xor function.  I've got the 
> following
> > function, but my logic skills are rusty enough that I'm wondering if
> > this is the "right" way to do it (I've validated that it 
> produces the
> > correct outputs, at least):
> >
> > def xor(a,b):
> >     return not ( (a and b) or (not (a or b)) )
> 
> A boolean xor is a detector of differences. Knowing that, you can
> simply write:
> 
> def xor(a,b):
> 	return not(a==b)
> 
> Hope it helps,
> --
> Nicolas
> 
> 
> Sent via Deja.com
> http://www.deja.com/
> -- 
> http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 



From fredrik at effbot.org  Sun Jan 21 12:51:24 2001
From: fredrik at effbot.org (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 17:51:24 GMT
Subject: How to write to tempfile, remove whitespace, and copy to source ..?
References: <t6m772ggf7gj8a@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <wkFa6.8096$AH6.1281873@newsc.telia.net>

Randolph MacKenzie wrote:
> I want a module that will remove the extra whitespace from all text files in
> a target directory.

> I want to use the tempfile command (on a Windoze2000 box).

you probably want the "inplace" flag to fileinput.input
instead:

    Optional in-place filtering: if the keyword argument
    inplace=1 is passed to input() or to the FileInput
    constructor, the file is moved to a backup file and
    standard output is directed to the input file. This
     makes it possible to write a filter that rewrites its
    input file in place.

    http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/module-fileinput.html

Cheers /F




From dsh8290 at rit.edu  Fri Jan 26 13:30:15 2001
From: dsh8290 at rit.edu (D-Man)
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 13:30:15 -0500
Subject: Problems with Install
In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.0.20010126083542.009e3290@mail.earthlink.net>; from zope@thewebsons.com on Fri, Jan 26, 2001 at 08:36:51AM -0800
References: <5.0.0.25.0.20010126083542.009e3290@mail.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20010126133015.B7309@harmony.cs.rit.edu>

On Fri, Jan 26, 2001 at 08:36:51AM -0800, Ben Ocean wrote:
| Hi;
| I'm at a loss to understand why I can't get python working. I had it 
| working before I moved my server. I re-installed it from src and typed 
| *python* and got a prompt. I was ecstatic. So I went to re-install Zope and 
| that installation failed. So I typed in *python* again and got
| bash: python: command not found

It's not in the path.

| How is that? It was just there! Where did it go? So I ripped out everything 
| that had to do with python on my server and started over. When I got to 
| *make* I got this error:
| 
| make[1]: *** [myreadline.o] Error 1
| make[1]: Leaving directory `/apache/vhosts/Python-1.5.2/Parser'
| make: *** [Parser] Error 2

The actual error is above this point.  There is some problem building
myreadline.o.  Maybe a compiler error or a linker error.  Once you are
at this point, scroll up in your term and find where gcc gave the
actual error message.  (make doesn't know what went wrong, only that
gcc said something went wrong)

| 
| It repeated with *make install* What am I missing? Also, I may have made a 
| bad mistake in deleting everything python in my box, please advise. Running 
| RedHat 6.2.
| TIA,BenO 
| 

I'd advise along the same lines as David : use the rpms.  If you want
the lastest and greatest, get the srpm.  Then:

$ rpm -ta <name>.srpm

This will create <name>.i386.rpm in /usr/src/redhat/RPMS/i386

(by default, if you are using an x86 system)

then

# rpm -Uvh /usr/src/redhat/RPMS/i386/<name>.i386.rpm


If you really want to build from the sources, it is a good idea to
learn C (or at least the C build environment) so that you will
understand the error messages you get.  Packages are nice because
non-programmers don't have to deal with build/compilation errors.

-D




From fredrik at effbot.org  Sat Jan 20 01:16:52 2001
From: fredrik at effbot.org (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 06:16:52 GMT
Subject: BeOpen 2.0 vs PythonWare
References: <mailman.979914382.23892.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <o3aa6.7717$AH6.1213244@newsc.telia.net>

Dan Rolander wrote:
> I'd like to hear your thoughts on the two different Win32 distributions,
> BeOpen vs. ActiveState. Why should I choose one over the other?

hey, you forgot one: the PythonWare PY20 distro:

    http://www.pythonware.com/downloads.htm

here's a quick overview (off the top of my head; I've probably
forgotten something, as usual)

the PythonLabs distribution (aka BeOpen):

    + python 2.0
    + tkinter with tk/tcl 8.2.3
    + expat
    + zlib
    + self-contained windows installer
    + no restrictions on redistribution
    + available for windows and linux

the current PythonWare PY20 distribution contains the same
stuff, with the following differences:

    + pil 1.1.1
    + tkinter 3000 components: tk booster patches
    + xml-rpc, soap support
    +/- doesn't mess with the registry/system directory
    + commercial support available
      (for pythonworks pro customers)
    + minimal footprint (distribution exe is 2 megs)
    + can coexist with beopen python 2.0
    - documentation not included
    - available for windows only (unix versions coming soon)

Cheers /F






From Daniel.Kinnaer at Advalvas.be  Sun Jan 28 06:01:57 2001
From: Daniel.Kinnaer at Advalvas.be (Daniel)
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 11:01:57 GMT
Subject: [Off topic] allowed to put Python material on the Web?
References: <3a730931.31998180@news.skynet.be>
Message-ID: <3a73f8fe.5827960@news.skynet.be>

Thanks for all your input.

So, if I understand this correctly, I can use the excellent material
from this newsgroup on my website on the following conditions :

1) ask the author permission to do so

2) give full detail of who actually gave the answer to a question

3) I will not use the material for commercial use, nor will I
   sell the information to others or publish it in a magazine.

Those were my intentions before starting this little project, but I
wanted to make sure I am on the right track.
    
The site I want to bring up is at 
    http://users.skynet.be/bs989981/
and has no banners/adds whatsoever.  I can change the last part of the
URL into something more readable, though.

If you think that I missed something here, please feel free to add
your comments/remarks.

Yours sincerely,

Daniel


From db3l at fitlinxx.com  Mon Jan 22 15:37:54 2001
From: db3l at fitlinxx.com (David Bolen)
Date: 22 Jan 2001 15:37:54 -0500
Subject: Why no isexec, isread, iswrite, etc (was: I must be missing something obvious: os.path.isexecutable?)
References: <slrn96enju.g1v.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <slrn96ep7c.g1v.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <slrn96erlf.h11.grey@teleute.rpglink.com> <uy9w89kjb.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com> <slrn96ik94.qf0.grey@teleute.dmiyu.org>
Message-ID: <un1cj9vbx.fsf@ctwd0143.fitlinxx.com>

grey at despair.rpglink.com (Steve Lamb) writes:

>     Then while looking for an answer for another person's question I ran
> across os.access().
> 
>     Oddly enough it works just fine even though on this install (1.5.2,
> Debian) I cannot appear to find where access is defined in os.py or
> posixpath.py.  

The core os functions are actually built-in to Python, via a built-in
module appropriate to the OS under which Python is running.  You can
see the os.py module import all the names from any of posix, nt, dos,
os2, or mac depending on the builtin module.

>     Soooooo, right back were we started.  Wouldn't it be easier to have these
> with their counterparts in os.path at the very least for consistency's sake?
> Glad I found them, though.  Also, does anyone know where they are in the
> libraries so I may see the code?

I see os.path really as just a subset of the OS module that affects
path manipulation (in that respect, I suppose some of the is*
functions perhaps should be in the main os module), but I don't know
how the line has been drawn in the past.  It may have also depended on
what functions could be easily externalized in Python code rather than
being part of the core builtin modules, I'm not sure.

But in general, I think of os and os.path as a combined unit (in fact
you'll note that os will automatically import os.path, so you can use
both modules by just importing os - perhaps there was a split in the
modules in the past).

You can find the code for the primary os module functions in the
appropriate piece of the Python source code - the POSIX, NT, Windows
and OS/2 version are in modules/posixmodule.c.  I'm not sure where the
MAC variation is kept.

--
-- David
-- 
/-----------------------------------------------------------------------\
 \               David Bolen            \   E-mail: db3l at fitlinxx.com  /
  |             FitLinxx, Inc.            \  Phone: (203) 708-5192    |
 /  860 Canal Street, Stamford, CT  06902   \  Fax: (203) 316-5150     \
\-----------------------------------------------------------------------/


From sholden at holdenweb.com  Thu Jan 11 20:20:07 2001
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 20:20:07 -0500
Subject: boolean xor
References: <93ace8$nmo$1@panix3.panix.com> <93i7ne$5dk$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <93i9ff$q4l$1@slb0.atl.mindspring.net> <pI576.21295$ge4.9910815@news2.rdc2.tx.home.com> <93iuj9$jta$1@slb3.atl.mindspring.net> <cLa76.23299$ge4.10502177@news2.rdc2.tx.home.com> <93jls9$v12$1@slb3.atl.mindspring.net> <Tbi76.10504$X3.66627@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com> <93kofr01bg2@news1.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <61t76.2471$6i.33339@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com>

"Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:93kofr01bg2 at news1.newsguy.com...
> "Steve Holden" <sholden at holdenweb.com> wrote in message
> news:Tbi76.10504$X3.66627 at e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com...
>     [snip]
> > A possibly salient point which hasn't been explicitly stated in this
> thread
> > (but might have been, seventeen days ago, my aging memory and general
> > decreptitude being what it is) is that the binary logical operators
> > short-circuit, and return the value of the last operand they evaluated.
> Even
>
> Bingo -- I *was* starting to think I should post about that.  For least-
> astonishment purposes, I'd thus like the xor function to behave similarly:
> return either A or B if at all possible (it may not be, of course, if
> both A and B are true).  E.g.,
>
> def xor(A,B):
>     if not A: return B
>     if not B: return A
>
Bzzzt. You need a "return 1" at the end of that. Look:

>>> def tf(x):
...  if x: return 1
...  else: return 0
...
>>> def xor(A, B):
...  if A: return B
...  if B: return A
...
>>> for A, B in (["", ""], ["", 't'], ['t', ''], ['t', 't']):
...  print tf(A), tf(B), tf(xor(A, B))
...
0 0 0   <<<< aarrrggghhh~~~!!!!
0 1 0
1 0 0
1 1 1

Better check my fix works: not often I get a chance to correct the
martellibot!

>>> def xor(A, B):
...  if A: return B
...  if B: return A
...  return 1
...
>>> for A, B in (["", ""], ["", 't'], ['t', ''], ['t', 't']):
...  print tf(A), tf(B), tf(xor(A, B))
...
0 0 1
0 1 0
1 0 0
1 1 1

Yup, that appears to do it. Still, returning that "1" doesn't seem very
Pythonic. Can;t think of anything else to do, however, since not (either
argument) will give 1 anyway in that case.

regards
 Steve




From shenwang at my-deja.com  Mon Jan 22 09:25:26 2001
From: shenwang at my-deja.com (shenwang at my-deja.com)
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 14:25:26 GMT
Subject: How to define event handler in win32com?
Message-ID: <94hfsd$hkd$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

After using makepy, I can easily access properties and methods of a com
object, but I do not how to bind my python function to the events
defined in that object. Any help?

Regards

------------------------------

Shen Wang


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/


From wilson.austin.aj at bhp.com.au  Sat Jan 13 02:18:26 2001
From: wilson.austin.aj at bhp.com.au (Austin Wilson)
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 18:18:26 +1100
Subject: Help required with wxGrid
Message-ID: <93ovgf$g9m$1@gossamer.itmel.bhp.com.au>

Hi

I am experimenting with wxGrid (part of wxPython) and was wondering if it is
possible for a long string of text which is typed into one cell be rendered
such that it overflows into the adjacent cell (as long os that cell is
empty) rather than being truncated or wrapped.  Microsoft Excel does this by
default.

Thanks
Austin




From moshez at zadka.site.co.il  Tue Jan 30 02:24:12 2001
From: moshez at zadka.site.co.il (Moshe Zadka)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 09:24:12 +0200 (IST)
Subject: . Python 2.1 function attributes
In-Reply-To: <95432j014on@news2.newsguy.com>
References: <95432j014on@news2.newsguy.com>, <mailman.980717974.17843.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <20010130072412.C38CEA840@darjeeling.zadka.site.co.il>

On Mon, 29 Jan 2001 16:43:13 +0100, "Alex Martelli" <aleaxit at yahoo.com> wrote:

> It _does_ interestingly contradict Guido's posts at the time,
> requesting _arguments_ (NOT "experiences") -- which, to me and I
> guess to other respondents, implied that the requested arguments
> *would* have a bit to do with something; I'm less surprised, now
> that I hear this, that said arguments mattered not a whit.

Alex, your hatred for print>> has caused you to rewrite history<wink>.
Guido asked for "arguments, not votes". Experience with using a feature
certainly counts as an argument -- experience with not using it does not,
however. Life is horribly asymmetric <0.7 wink>

-- 
Moshe Zadka <sig at zadka.site.co.il>
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