PEP scepticism

Bernhard Reiter bernhard at
Mon Jul 2 20:37:06 CEST 2001

In article <mailman.993840284.31403.python-list at>,
	<mcherm at> writes:

>> Maybe I am a hypocritical sceptic, but I have the impression that
>> some feeping creatureism is introduced into Python.

>> Examples are:
>> 	- augmented Assigments
>> 	- Lists comprehensions
>> 	- Simple Generators

>> On the other hand this is excatly the danger I want to warn you about.
>> It is a social reason for being careful:

>> Mainly as a python user I urge you to take this into consideration.

> First of all, thank you Bernhard, for raising an important point.
> I completely agree with you: one of the strengths of Python is its
> simplicity, and I would never want to see it go the way of Perl
> or C++. And you are (IMHO) RIGHT that those who discuss PEPs are
> probably more savy than the typical Python user, and they need to
> keep that in mind.
> On the other hand, I find your list of examples sorely lacking.
> Without trying to convince you, let me just state that in MY opinion:
>   Augmented Assignment -- perhaps not a good idea, but I guess
>       we got tired of being laughed at by people coming from C
>       and java. It's awefully convenient anyhow.

    My editor helps me saving the few more keystrikes,
    but I found just as with intendation-grouping that I could
    write better code without augmented assignment.
    And there are ambigious cases (as discussed elsewhere).

>   List Comprehensions -- one of my new arguments for why Python
>       is so much BETTER than other languages. Their elegence and
>       simplicity (for a task which is incredibly common) makes the
>       language SIMPLER to read, and the syntax is so "obvious"
>       that beginners can pick it up after seeing 2 or 3 examples.   

    I had a hard time grasping it myself.
    Do you have teaching experience on this one?

>   Simple Generators -- this, too, is elegant and simple to
>       understand. 

    Maybe we should bring in field tests with beginners. :)
    I feel the other way round, but we probably both are not
    right persons to judge this.

> If we keep your advice in mind,
> maybe we can continue that record.

Yes, hopefully.

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