best language for 3D manipulation over web ?

Attila Feher Attila.Feher at
Thu Jun 7 19:05:18 CEST 2001

TGOS wrote:
> Let's assume you need a router...all you need for that is a UNIX/Linux kernel
> and a boot script...that's it.
> Maybe you also install an SSH client (that only allows connection from the
> local network) to change configuration, but despite that you don't need
> anything. Such a router easily fit onto a floppy disc...even a router with
> extra firewall may fit onto a single floppy disc.
> Now let's build that system with much useless components do you
> have to install, that are never used later on, but might cause security holes?
> Exactly ^_^

I would not use NT for that :-)))

> Despite that, I doubt that WinNT actually has router/firewall functions
> implemented into its kernel, so you are forced to install third party software
> for this.

No 3rd party, just the MS Proxy.  Been there, done that.

[Huge Snip]

> Sure:
> Open system.ini and replace "shell=Explorer.exe" with another GUI.
> Try "" and you run Windows in text mode. You can start Windows
> apps, that's no problem. E.g. type "start winamp" and then you can listen to
> MP3 music. You just don't have a Desktop, a Taskbar or a Startbutton.

Actually you can replace the DGI itself.  You can get a command line
only environment and there are little tools one can use to start up new


> Well, there are alternatives to Sendmail. Despite that, I found a webpage that
> describes how you can install and use Sendmail, WITHOUT assigning root access
> to it.

URL? :-)))

> > I mean having a web server which
> > cannot notify me of events (alarms) is not that good. :-(
> There certainly other ways to notify you.
> Despite that, a Unix system can send mails without Sendmail, e.g. via an
> external SMTP server (the one where your mailbox is hosted).

That's right...

> Then use non open source wrappers ^_^
> Or even better, write your own wrapper.

To be honest: it would be fun up to 2 OSs but after that... and since I
rarely have time for other things than eat, sleep and work. :-(((

> > Anyone making assembly optimizations should be aware of that he creates
> > _highly_ nonportable code.
> But also highly speed optimized one.

You _might_ need it for games.  But I doubt that they are usually needed
for anything but picture etc. processing.  Etc. might be some other huge
data flow, like speech...

> > If one goes with C++ (and C) it is many
> > times unnecessary, even evil.  A well written C/C++ code will provide
> > the same ASM stuff.
> That depends.
> Most compilers allow you to preview your C++ code in Assembler, the way it is
> also translated when getting compiled. If you take a look at that code and
> compare it to hand written code, it's quite different.

Yep.  And some "clever" guys (w/o know 1% of what the compiler authors)
starts to make it smaller and ends up with a slower stuff :-)))

> A tiny C++ program may result in 1,000 lines Assembler code, while when you
> write the same thing directly in Assembler, you may only need 400 lines.

And those 400 lines may be way slower!  Predictions etc. etc.

> Despite that you can make use of processor features like SSE2, which can
> perform certain calculations 4 times faster than using classic x86
> instructions; very helpful when applying the same function onto an whole array
> of numbers. C++ won't use those features, because therefor it would need to
> know how the program behaves during runtime.

OK!  Correction: well writtenm C++ code awith a well written compiler. 
Probably none exists :-)))

> Sure, this code will only run on a specific platform, often only on a specific
> CPU, but nonetheless it's done pretty often. This doesn't mean that your whole
> application can't be cross-platform.

Yep, if it is well documented, small enough part.


[ Windows Registry ]

; :-))))

> > And once it crashes you have to reinstall _everything_, probably
> > including nice data loss...
> Exactly, that's why applications shouldn't store their data there. So I can
> reinstall Windows, without being forced to reinstall a single application.
> That way I would loose file associations, but that's not such a big deal.

Yep-yep.  Same about DLLs in Windows\system[32] etc.  BTW I still would
like to see (never tried) that is it actually possible to load 2
different versions of the same DLL (same module name) under windows... 
Last time I have tried I simply got back the already loaded version.  I
guess it isn't so in UNIX at all.  I don't even see the load .so if I am
not in the process started it or in a subprocess...

> >> Every user should have his/her own registry (and not just a sub-tree)
> >
> > TOTALLY agreed.
> See, we can agree to many different things ^__^


> Especially if every user had his/her own registry, different users could have
> different file associations (one user may like to open DOC files with Word, but
> someone else may like to open them with StarWriter) and different hardware
> settings (sometimes that's an advantage).

Oh yeah.  But I guess you _can_ have this... though never tried it.  But
as far as I remember I saw that some SW installed file associations only
for 1 user and then they were at a special place in the user part... 
Would not say it under oath :-)))


Thx for the Java URL, I'll check it out.

> >> You can't really filter the web. You can try, but it will never be really
> >> effective.
> >
> > Simple.  One allows only few addresses/IPs to be reached :-)))  Opposite
> > filtering :-)))
> I don't think they are doing this...actually I know it.
> Do you know Audiogalaxy?

Not really.

> It's like Napster (sharing MP3 files), but unlike
> Napster it's still unfiltered and they even have a client for Linux.
> I use it once a while and there you can look who's online at the moment (of
> course you don't see the real names of people, just their screen names), sorted
> by country. And once a while a few people from China are online ^_^

Ohh.  Kids of the Chinese communist party leaders probably :-)))  Or the
state security...

> And as I know the Chinese government, I doubt that they would allow users to
> access Audiogalaxy, because they also have discussion forums there. So Chinese
> people can discuss with the rest of the world.

Yeah.  Poor them.  I mean it.

Thx for Java+RAM advice.

> > Now if U have a C++ programmer (experienced, with his nice libraries) I
> > guess he will do a better quality work before the new Java guy learn
> > what is an array :-)))
> But the C++ programmer may use direct memory access and the result is something
> like Sendmail, which doesn't happen when using an array. ^_-

Oh yeah.  When I have said "experienced C++ programmer" I meant that he
is experienced _and_ damn good in C++ programming :-)))

> Despite that, C++ programmers don't need to know what an array is?

Sure they do. :-)  At least I know.  And how many arrays one can have! 
Since array is like container, so...

> That's what I'm currently trying. The first thing I did was looking at the
> source code of all classes that are shipped with Java and I found out that they
> seem to be rather optimized for small size than for high speed.

Good luck.

> > Ps: Maybe we should go on in private?  I am just waiting in fear for the
> > first guy from some NG to say: this is not a discussion forum :-((
> Really? So what is it?
> IMHO a Newsgroup *is* the prototype of a discussion forum and Usenet was
> created for discussions.
> But the e-mail address in my header is valid, so you can also reply via mail if
> you prefer.

OK.  So let's hang here until we get a "friendly" warning :-))


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