Python/Zope vs. Java/JSP

[Thomas Weholt]

As I said, I've been briefly working with Zope and even using the manuals
and docs, which I did read, Zope isn't
that easy. If you've seen reviews of Zope around the net you'll see that one
of the many cons the reviewers have against Zope is the steep learning curve
when faced with making new products, at least that was the case when I read
those reviews. Haven't used Zope since.

This wasn't an attack on Zope, I like it and will create products for it in
the near future, but when compared to java-based solutions it looks like it
could use some more time to mature. Or ... perhaps I'm wrong ??

Thomas

"kosh" <kosh at aesaeion.com> wrote in message
news:9ebtpi$3k1$1 at apollo.csd.net...
> Thomas Weholt wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > I've worked in Java/JSP for a long time and briefly with Zope (
allthough
> > been a fanatic Python programmer for about 3 years ).
> > My experience is that all java-based servlet solutions share the same
> > draw-backs; long response time on first page hit ( loading of needed
> > classes etc. ),
> > , insane hardware requirements and lots of code to do even the smallest
> > thing. Then the good things; Enhydra ( look at www.enhydra.org ->
complete
> > seperation of design and functionality) and Borland JBuilder. Enhydra is
a
> > very good application server with an active community and JBuilder is a
> > very good IDE with support for Enhydra development. A very good
> > combination.
> >
> > Zope is known to be a bit complex when you want to create your own
> > products, and in my mind, more complex than java servlets/JSP. If you
> > don't take the initial response time of java-servlets java-based
> > application servers seem to have a better response time too. Simple
tests
> > done in the project I've been involved with show Zope-based servers
> > serving about 20% pages pr. second compared to Enhydra. Then again Java
> > takes HUGE amounts of RAM. I mean really immense amounts of RAM,
> > development machines with less than 256MB is useless using
> > Enhydra/JBuilder. Zope is much nicer in that aspect.
> >
> > The development of ZEO ( Zope Enterprise Objects ) will also make stuff
> > like fail-over, clustering etc. available ( I think ) so Zope won't fall
> > short compared to java-based solutions were these things are mature and
> > presently available.
> >
> > I'd say if you can handle 20 lines of code to send a simple response to
a
> > client, have the money to upgrade all server and development machines
and
> > buy expensive development tools go for Java. If you like the smoothness
of
> > Python and got time to invest in learning Zope, stick to the snake ;->
> >
> > Thomas
> >
>
> Most programmers problems I have seen with zope so far is a complete
> refusal to listen to how things work and refusal to read manuals. If you
> understand python and just read the zope book which is freely available
and
> a tutorial or two that someone will point out on #zope on
> irc.openprojects.net developing python products in zope is very easy. I
> have seen too many though that had it in their head that x is the way zope
> worked when it was not and they refused to consider that it did not work
> that way and that in fact it worked in way y which when finally bashed
into
> their head they agreed that was an easier way to work with things.
> Programmers carry with them many preconceived notions of the "one true
way"
> and this gets them into trouble a lot.
>
> Also for zope speed you can improve it a lot by putting a lot of memory on
> the box and changing the way the db runs from the database control panels.
> If you tell it to cache a huge number of objects at a time then you only
> have a latency the first time the object is accessed after that the
respons
> is very quick.
>
> There are many optimizations you can do with zope and it is not that hard
> to learn them however most don't take the time.
>
> > "tszeto" <tszeto at mindspring.com> wrote in message
> > news:9e7og6$utc$1 at slb1.atl.mindspring.net...
> >> I've used Java/JSP at work but I'm just starting to learn Python for
fun.
> >>
> >> Was wondering how Python/Zope compared to Java/JSP in terms of speed,
> >> scalability, etc.
> >>
> >> Any help appreciated. Thanks.
> >>
> >> -Ted
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
>