list.remove for Novices
ajs at ix.netcom.com
Tue Nov 27 02:53:30 CET 2001
Steves comments on my post:
>> But the Reference Manual is for the Legal profession. I'd suggest a
> > tutorial warning.
>Along the lines of "Sitting on the branch you are sawing off the tree is
>a good idea"?
But you need to understand that for someone like myself, Python is almost
my only point of reference. If I read about immutable and mutable, it was
hint, but actually *meant* little. That is documentation for folks who are
game, not entering it.
And even understanding the behavior now, its hard for me not to
consider it a wart. I *don't* want the language to baby-sit
me - but ...
Well maybe I can't have all ways.
>Art, surely you've been using Python long enough to realize that assignment
>never creates copies?
Again, if you are starting out with a reference point understanding that
there are assignments which behave such and so, and copies
which behave such and so, then understanding which '=' creates is
easy. But do realize that a beginner does not come to the table
with that understanding - which is why I sometimes feel that in this
one important respect Python is not for beginners. But again - Python is
my only real point of reference - so I can't say the concepts would get
across better using some other language.
>Isn't Python FUN?
>>for p in x:
>> surprise just being a new dessert topping.
>>>Surprise? There you go, sawing away at that branch again. I realize I
>>>convince you, because you've been bitten, that this isn't a situation
>>>further documentation is necessary. Seems obvious to me, but clearly I'm
>>>typical of *all* users (thank heavens).
But the only thing I truly try to bring to the Python table is a
vocal novice voice. Not ashamed to be dumb, because I am getting smarter
all the time.
So I can promise you it is not obvious for the folks like
myself - until *after* one gets bit.
The x.remove(dup) behavior on iteration never occurred
to me. And I *did* know that, for example,
that list.reverse() was in place.
>> Is anyone aware of a reference where these issues are given
>> focus and covered clearly and comprehensively
> >for the Python novice??
>> Not that someone like me is likely to read it carefully. Just
> >so much damage one can do screwing up a bezier curve, and
> >I tend to live dangerously - and learn by messing up enough
> >times until something eventually clicks.
>So you ADMIT that warnings wouldn't do you any good. I suppose they'd be
>useful for "other people", though?
Being a little tongue and cheek. I constantly have used the Python
tutorial as a source. I do have a few Python books which I also
use as reference - but I am admitting that I mostly use a trial and
error approach. The fact that Python seems so amenable to that
approach is a good part of why we get along so well.
>> My first PEP?
>I wouldn't even think about it, but of course the point of the PEPs is to
How about this one. A copy operator - <=> or something. So now
all the world is on notice from day one = is different that <=>.
Which do you mean?
Its a stupendous idea.
I am sure all agree.
Its OK, I'm getting used to ducking.
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