Digest Number 3383

19IR01 Jan 19ir01 at wxs.nl
Tue Oct 16 12:35:01 CEST 2001


please unsubscribe me from this list , some joker added me , I am not
interested ,merci,

19ir01 at wxs.nl

----- Original Message -----
From: <python-list at yahoogroups.com>
To: <python-list at yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2001 12:20 PM
Subject: Digest Number 3383


> There are 22 messages in this issue.
>
> Topics in this digest:
>
>       1. Re: FW: [Python-Dev] conditional expressions?
>            From: Carel Fellinger <cfelling at iae.nl>
>       2. Re: FW: [Python-Dev] conditional expressions?
>            From: Carel Fellinger <cfelling at iae.nl>
>       3. Re: BINARY DATA, SCIPY, MIO (...again)
>            From: Travis Oliphant <oliphant at ee.byu.edu>
>       4. Re: FW: [Python-Dev] conditional expressions?
>            From: Paul Rubin <phr-n2001d at nightsong.com>
>       5. Re: TKinter PhotoImage Class?? - 2nd round
>            From: "Fredrik Lundh" <fredrik at pythonware.com>
>       6. PoPy and Large Object Operations
>            From: John Bell <jbell at iinet.net.au>
>       7. Re: Telnetlib - send brk
>            From: "Patrick Vrijlandt" <p.vrijlandt at aig.azn.nl>
>       8. Re: FW: [Python-Dev] conditional expressions?
>            From: Anthony Baxter <anthony at interlink.com.au>
>       9. Beijing Tangfeng Culture Exchange Centre
>            From: office at tangfeng.org
>      10. Statements vs. expressions (was Re: Loop-and-a-half (Re: Curious
assignment behaviour)
>            From: Ville Vainio <vvainio at karhu.tp.spt.fi>
>      11. Re: newbie printing question
>            From: Martin Franklin <martin.franklin at westgeo.com>
>      12. Re: TkTable
>            From: Martin Franklin <martin.franklin at westgeo.com>
>      13. Re: conditional expressions (RE: Loop-and-a-half (Re: Curious
assignment behaviour))
>            From: "Anders J. Munch" <andersjm at dancontrol.dk>
>      14. Zope consultant needed UK
>            From: Simon Martin <simonmartin at mail105.com>
>      15. Re: conditional expressions (RE: Loop-and-a-half (Re: Curious
assignment behaviour))
>            From: Paul Rubin <phr-n2001d at nightsong.com>
>      16. Beijing Tangfeng Culture Exchange Centre
>            From: office at tangfeng.org
>      17. Re: FW: [Python-Dev] conditional expressions?
>            From: gbreed at cix.compulink.co.uk
>      18. Whereabouts of Python port of Template Toolkit?
>            From: hamish_lawson at yahoo.co.uk (Hamish Lawson)
>      19. Re: conditional expressions (RE: Loop-and-a-half (Re: Curious
assignment behaviour))
>            From: Michael Abbott <michael at rcp.co.uk>
>      20. Re: [Python-Dev] conditional expressions?
>            From: "Anders J. Munch" <andersjm at dancontrol.dk>
>      21. Re: [Python-Dev] conditional expressions?
>            From: Michael Abbott <michael at rcp.co.uk>
>      22. feeding SAX
>            From: mallum <breakfast at 10.am>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 1
>    Date: 16 Oct 2001 06:27:32 +0200
>    From: Carel Fellinger <cfelling at iae.nl>
> Subject: Re: FW: [Python-Dev] conditional expressions?
>
> Paul Rubin <phr-n2001d at nightsong.com> wrote:
> > m.faassen at vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen) writes:
> >>   * list comprehensions are signalled by the fairly clear [ and ].
> >>     Conditional expressions use the already fairly strongly
> >>     overloaded ( and ). Of course I guess they wouldn't really
> >>     overload them further, but..
>
> > A conditional expression analogy to list comprehensions would be
> >   x = (a if b else c)
>
> though I think I like this spelling more, you mixed up a and b, and
> that's probably a likely mistake, so a big disadvantage.  On the other
> hand this clearly looks like an expression to me, a big advantage.
>
> > rather than
> >   x = if a then b else c
>
> I've only once been exposed to Algol-60, to short to get familiar with
> the use of a conditional statement disguised as an if *statement* but
> I sure would like parens to be required in far more situations then
> the current patch as it helps me to read it as an expression at a
> glance.  I think about the only place were I feel the extra parens
> don't help is in a simple parameter list.
> --
> groetjes, carel
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 2
>    Date: 16 Oct 2001 06:39:12 +0200
>    From: Carel Fellinger <cfelling at iae.nl>
> Subject: Re: FW: [Python-Dev] conditional expressions?
>
> Carel Fellinger <cfelling at iae.nl> wrote:
> ..
> >>   x = if a then b else c
>
> > I've only once been exposed to Algol-60, to short to get familiar with
> > the use of a conditional statement disguised as an if *statement* but
>
> conditional *expression* that should read, proving how confusing it is to
me:)
> --
> groetjes, carel
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 3
>    Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 23:36:01 -0400
>    From: Travis Oliphant <oliphant at ee.byu.edu>
> Subject: Re: BINARY DATA, SCIPY, MIO (...again)
>
>
> A version of scipy had a typo in mio.py so that
> Tupletype should have been TupleType
>
> >>> from scipy import *
>
> >>> help(io.fopen.fort_read)
>
>  fort_read(fmt, dtype=None)
>
> Read a Fortran binary record.
>
> Inputs:
>
>   fmt -- If dtype is not given this represents a struct.pack
>          format string to interpret the next record.  Otherwise this
>          argument is ignored.
>   dtype -- If dtype is not None, then read in the next record as
>            an array of type dtype.
>
> Outputs: (data,)
>
>   data -- If dtype is None, then data is a tuple containing the output
>           of struct.unpack on the next Fortan record.
>           If dtype is a datatype string, then the next record is
>           read in as a 1-D array of type datatype.
>
>
> There are two ways to call this method of the object returned by fopen:
>
> 1) output_tuple = fid.fort_read(<some_struct_format_string>)
>
> 2) 1darray = fid.fort_read(whatever, dtype='double')
>
> You probably whan the second method to read in a fortran record (created
> by each write statement in your Fortran code) as an array of real*8 values
>
> -Travis
>
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 4
>    Date: 15 Oct 2001 22:58:13 -0700
>    From: Paul Rubin <phr-n2001d at nightsong.com>
> Subject: Re: FW: [Python-Dev] conditional expressions?
>
> Carel Fellinger <cfelling at iae.nl> writes:
> > > A conditional expression analogy to list comprehensions would be
> > >   x = (a if b else c)
> >
> > though I think I like this spelling more, you mixed up a and b, and
> > that's probably a likely mistake, so a big disadvantage.  On the other
> > hand this clearly looks like an expression to me, a big advantage.
>
> To have the same meaning as the other example, yes.  I should have not
> just copied the letters from the other example.
>
> Thinking about it, I like this syntax more too, but since I think
> parenthesized S-expressions are the one true syntax, I'm not too fussy
> about which imperfect substitute gets chosen ;-).
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 5
>    Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 06:33:40 GMT
>    From: "Fredrik Lundh" <fredrik at pythonware.com>
> Subject: Re: TKinter PhotoImage Class?? - 2nd round
>
> Robert C. Ramsdell wrote:
> > When I try the method above in the method, the Canvas remains empty.
> > No errror message is given, the image just is not displayed.  Does
anyone
> > know why this is happening?
>
> you must keep a reference to the PhotoImage object.  see
> FAQ question 4.69 for a bit more information:
>
>     http://www.python.org/doc/FAQ.html#4.69
>
> >         def draw_image(self, iname):
> >                 self.drawspace.pack()
> >                 i=PIL.ImageTk.PhotoImage(file=iname)
>
>                  self.photo = i
>
> >                 self.drawspace.create_image(0,0,image=i)
>
> </F>
>
> <!-- (the eff-bot guide to) the python standard library:
> http://www.pythonware.com/people/fredrik/librarybook.htm
> -->
>
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 6
>    Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 14:51:40 +0800
>    From: John Bell <jbell at iinet.net.au>
> Subject: PoPy and Large Object Operations
>
> Could someone give me a pointer on how to use PoPy for Binary Large
> Object operations.  Ie import/Export type Ops.  Unfortunately the PoPy
> site is never up and I can find nothing helpful either on the net or in
> the source.
>
> John
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 7
>    Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 09:12:47 +0200
>    From: "Patrick Vrijlandt" <p.vrijlandt at aig.azn.nl>
> Subject: Re: Telnetlib - send brk
>
>
> "Donnie Miller" <drmiller at pldi.net>
> >    I've been trying the telnetlib library rather than using expect
> > scripts as I have done in the past.  I have had success with it up until
> > the point where I needed to send a "break" sequence to a server.  I have
> > searched all over various lists and google, but have not found
> > anything.  Does anyone have any idea of how to do this?
>
> Telnetlib provides no way to send telnet control characters:
>
> IAC  = chr(255) # Interpret As Command
> DONT = chr(254) #
> DO   = chr(253) #
> WONT = chr(252) #
> WILL = chr(251) #
> SB   = chr(250) # Subnegotiation Begin
> GA   = chr(249) # Go Ahead
> EL   = chr(248) # Erase Line
> EC   = chr(247) # Erase Char
> AYT  = chr(246) # Are You There
> AO   = chr(245) # Abort Output
> IP   = chr(244) # Interrupt Process
> BRK  = chr(243) # NVT-Break
> DM   = chr(242) # Data Mark
> NOP  = chr(241) # No Operation
> SE   = chr(240) # Subnegotiation End
>
> So you have to patch the write method, originally:
>
>     def write(self, buffer):
>         if IAC in buffer:
>             buffer = buffer.replace(IAC, IAC+IAC)
>         self.msg("send %s", `buffer`)
>         self.sock.send(buffer)
>
> so that BRK (and the other telnet commands) also is/are prepended by an
IAC
> character.
>
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 8
>    Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 17:38:46 +1000
>    From: Anthony Baxter <anthony at interlink.com.au>
> Subject: Re: FW: [Python-Dev] conditional expressions?
>
>
> Ok, so we're getting yet another ugly hack added to the language.
> Could the normal process of writing up a PEP be followed, so that
> those people in the community who are uncomfortable about it can
> at least see the justification for this?
>
> Or has the PEP already been written, and I'm just going mental - it
> doesn't appear to be on the PEP page...
>
> Anthony
>
> --
> Anthony Baxter     <anthony at interlink.com.au>
> It's never too late to have a happy childhood.
>
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 9
>    Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 15:45:09 +0800
>    From: office at tangfeng.org
> Subject: Beijing Tangfeng Culture Exchange Centre
>
>
>
> [This message is not in displayable format]
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 10
>    Date: 16 Oct 2001 10:31:35 +0300
>    From: Ville Vainio <vvainio at karhu.tp.spt.fi>
> Subject: Statements vs. expressions (was Re: Loop-and-a-half (Re: Curious
assignment behaviour)
>
> huaiyu at gauss.almadan.ibm.com (Huaiyu Zhu) writes:
>
> > Agreed generally.  A clarification, though: the proposal does not allow
> > statements in expressions; it allows statements _between_ conditional
> > keywords and the corresponding expressions, like
> >
> > while [ <statements> ; ] <expression> :  <suite>
> > if [ <statements> ; ] <expression> :  <suite>
>
> By the way, what is the big win with having statements in the
> language, as opposed to just having expressions (possibly returning
> 'Unit' or something similar)?
>
> --
> Ville Vainio - http://www.tp.spt.fi/~vvainio - ICQ #115524762
>  Wild geese have no intention to cast a reflection
>  Water has no mind to assume their form
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 11
>    Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 08:45:26 +0100
>    From: Martin Franklin <martin.franklin at westgeo.com>
> Subject: Re: newbie printing question
>
> adina_levin at mindspring.com wrote:
>
> > I'd like to create a string with the current date and time. I've got the
> > mxDateTime library, so far so good.
> >
> > print mxDateTime.now() will generate the date and time to the screen.
> > write will send it to a file.
> >
> > But how can I assign this to a string?
> >
> > I will be most thankful and embarrassed to hear the answer to this
> > question. It oughta be obvious!
> >
> >
> >
>
> To create a string variable I guess you need to assign it like so:
>
> TimeNow=mxDateTime.now()
>
> print TimeNow
>
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 12
>    Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 08:54:16 +0100
>    From: Martin Franklin <martin.franklin at westgeo.com>
> Subject: Re: TkTable
>
> Janos Blazi wrote:
>
> > Is there a way to use tkTable from within Tkinter?
> >
> > Thx in advance, J.B.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----=  Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News  =-----
> > http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
> >  Check out our new Unlimited Server. No Download or Time Limits!
> > -----==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers!  ==-----
> >
>
> Google (TkTable python) turns this up......
>
> http://starship.python.net/crew/pgodman/
>
>
> HTH
> Martin
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 13
>    Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 10:12:13 +0200
>    From: "Anders J. Munch" <andersjm at dancontrol.dk>
> Subject: Re: conditional expressions (RE: Loop-and-a-half (Re: Curious
assignment behaviour))
>
>
> "Tim Peters" <tim.one at home.com> wrote in message
> news:mailman.1003176136.32708.python-list at python.org...
> > For anyone keen to play with this, Guido has uploaded a patch.  It
> > requires surrounding parens in fewer places than has been discussed so
> far:
> >
> >
>
<http://sf.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=471421&group_id=5470&atid=3
> 05470>
> >
>
>
> """It's hairier than expected because I'm trying to
> require you to put parentheses around it in some cases
> but not in others."""
>
> For simplicity and consistency I think mandatory parentheses are
> better.
>
> Combine that with the form mentioned (though not preferred) by Michael
> Abbott elsewhere we get:
>
>     x = (if e1: e2 else: e3)
>
> No new keyword, consistent with if-statement syntax and hence more
> intuitive to someone who knows Python but not a heap of other
> languages as well.  And it's slightly more terse than the if-then-else
> form, which is important because terseness is the only reason to use a
> conditional expression in the first place.
>
> - Anders
>
>
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 14
>    Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 09:15:10 +0100
>    From: Simon Martin <simonmartin at mail105.com>
> Subject: Zope consultant needed UK
>
> Dear Group,
>
> Hope this isn't inappropriate...
>
> We need a really good Zope consultant for a very ambitious open source
> project. Anyone out there in the Herts/London area? Please get in touch
> so we can talk, I'm not interested in going through agencies etc at this
> stage.
>
> Many thanks
>
> Simon
> --
> Simon Martin
> London Uk
> 020 8386 5828
> PGP KEY ID <0xFA69D420> @ <http://pgpkeys.mit.edu:11371/>
> *Please note my e-mail address is now 'simonmartin at mail105.com'*
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 15
>    Date: 16 Oct 2001 01:31:11 -0700
>    From: Paul Rubin <phr-n2001d at nightsong.com>
> Subject: Re: conditional expressions (RE: Loop-and-a-half (Re: Curious
assignment behaviour))
>
> "Anders J. Munch" <andersjm at dancontrol.dk> writes:
> > Combine that with the form mentioned (though not preferred) by Michael
> > Abbott elsewhere we get:
> >
> >     x = (if e1: e2 else: e3)
> >
> > No new keyword, consistent with if-statement syntax and hence more
> > intuitive to someone who knows Python but not a heap of other
> > languages as well.  And it's slightly more terse than the if-then-else
> > form, which is important because terseness is the only reason to use a
> > conditional expression in the first place.
>
> Hey, I like that one too.  You could even include an elif:
>   x = (if e1: v1 elif e2: v2 else: v3)
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 16
>    Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 16:44:50 +0800
>    From: office at tangfeng.org
> Subject: Beijing Tangfeng Culture Exchange Centre
>
>
>
> [This message is not in displayable format]
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 17
>    Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 09:00:05 +0000 (UTC)
>    From: gbreed at cix.compulink.co.uk
> Subject: Re: FW: [Python-Dev] conditional expressions?
>
> In article <9qgcvk$91j$1 at animus.fel.iae.nl>, cfelling at iae.nl (Carel
> Fellinger) wrote:
>
> > > A conditional expression analogy to list comprehensions would be
> > >   x = (a if b else c)
> >
> > though I think I like this spelling more, you mixed up a and b, and
> > that's probably a likely mistake, so a big disadvantage.  On the other
> > hand this clearly looks like an expression to me, a big advantage.
>
> You can also remove the parentheses, and not have to worry about the "if"
> starting a new line.
>
>
>                       Graham
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 18
>    Date: 16 Oct 2001 02:31:11 -0700
>    From: hamish_lawson at yahoo.co.uk (Hamish Lawson)
> Subject: Whereabouts of Python port of Template Toolkit?
>
> I remember once before coming across a Python port of the Template
> Toolkit library for Perl. However my attempts to find it again have so
> far turned out fruitless. Does anyone know where I can get hold of it?
> (Note that Template Toolkit shouldn't be confused with HTML::Template,
> of which there is also a Python port - htmltmpl.)
>
> Thanks,
> Hamish Lawson
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 19
>    Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 09:34:18 +0000 (UTC)
>    From: Michael Abbott <michael at rcp.co.uk>
> Subject: Re: conditional expressions (RE: Loop-and-a-half (Re: Curious
assignment behaviour))
>
> Paul Rubin <phr-n2001d at nightsong.com> wrote in
> news:7xelo4yoj4.fsf at ruckus.brouhaha.com:
>
> > "Anders J. Munch" <andersjm at dancontrol.dk> writes:
> >> Combine that with the form mentioned (though not preferred) by Michael
> >> Abbott elsewhere we get:
> >>
> >>     x = (if e1: e2 else: e3)
> >>
> >> No new keyword, consistent with if-statement syntax and hence more
> >> intuitive to someone who knows Python but not a heap of other
> >> languages as well.  And it's slightly more terse than the if-then-else
> >> form, which is important because terseness is the only reason to use a
> >> conditional expression in the first place.
> >
> > Hey, I like that one too.  You could even include an elif:
> >   x = (if e1: v1 elif e2: v2 else: v3)
>
> I have to say I prefer the emerging form
>
>     x = if e1 then v1 elif e2 then v2 else v3
>
> The parentheses are certainly not required, and can always be added by
> those who like to use them.
>
> I'm pretty sure that
>
>     x = if e1: v1 elif e2: v2 else: v3
>
> will work without the brackets; again, bracket enthusiasts can add them to
> taste!
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 20
>    Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 11:27:42 +0200
>    From: "Anders J. Munch" <andersjm at dancontrol.dk>
> Subject: Re: [Python-Dev] conditional expressions?
>
> "Tim Peters" <tim.one at home.com> wrote in message
> news:mailman.1003177394.3900.python-list at python.org...
> > Following is good clarification from Guido (on Python-Dev) about "the
> rules" currently implemented by his patch.
> [...]
> > Some examples where no parentheses are needed (note that a comma binds
> > less tight than a conditional expression -- same as for lambda):
> >
> >     x = if 1 then 2 else 3, y
> >     f(if 1 then 2 else 3, y)
> >     a[if 1 then 2 else 3, y]
> >     `if 1 then 2 else 3`
> >     lambda: if 1 then 2 else 3
>
> I see a problem with adding precedence rules.  There doesn't seem to
> be a natural precedence for the conditional expression operator.  C
> and C++ have been struggling with this for years; C and C++ have
> different rules for this; compilers have warnings that say "Suggest
> parentheses to clarify precedence".  After 14 years of C and C++
> programming I still couldn't tell you the precedence of ?: even if I
> wanted to.
>
> Quick, what does this snippet do if return_as_map is true?
>
>  return if return_as_map then {'A':a,'B':b} else a,b
>
> Rather than open up a new venue of obfuscation possibilities in
> Python, I'd go for mandatory parentheses around the conditional
> expression.
>
> - Anders
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 21
>    Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 09:36:24 +0000 (UTC)
>    From: Michael Abbott <michael at rcp.co.uk>
> Subject: Re: [Python-Dev] conditional expressions?
>
> "Anders J. Munch" <andersjm at dancontrol.dk> wrote in
> news:3bcbfda6$0$42081$edfadb0f at dspool01.news.tele.dk:
>
> > Quick, what does this snippet do if return_as_map is true?
> >
> >  return if return_as_map then {'A':a,'B':b} else a,b
> >
> > Rather than open up a new venue of obfuscation possibilities in
> > Python, I'd go for mandatory parentheses around the conditional
> > expression.
>
> Nah.  Go for "maximal munch", I can't think of anything wrong with that.
> The above expression then returns the dictionary (only).
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 22
>    Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 10:53:51 +0100
>    From: mallum <breakfast at 10.am>
> Subject: feeding SAX
>
> hi all;
>
> Expat allows me to incrementally parse an XML document by 'feeding' it
> the document in chunks rather than in one whole go. Is this possible
> with SAX ? or do you have to give its parse function the entire
> document ?
>
>   -- Matthew Allum
>
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> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
>
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