Pythonwin and .NET

Ron Stephens rdsteph at earthlink.net
Sun Sep 9 14:54:17 CEST 2001


Ok...one actual reason:

Python may well become the one and only language that offers the ability to write
programs that can be equally well integrated into systems using *either or both*
of the two run-time environments, Java or .NET.

Can you imagine the same could soon be said for either C# or VB?

Can you imagine circumstances where such a capability might be useful?

Ron Stephens wrote:

> Hello Mark, I am loving your book.
>
> I hesitate only a few seconds before adding my comments to those of Mark Hamond
> and Alex Martelli, for reasons only Alexander Pope might fully understand.
>
> I well make a prediction:
>
> Despite the reservations of a genius, Mark will help secure such a place in .NET
>
> for Python, that this extension of Python will be one of the major reasons for
> the
> ultimate advancement of the language Python to a pre-eminent role in the further
>
> evolution of computer science.
>
> I feel this in my bones. I cannot expect to offer detailed reasons on the level
> of
> Alex and Mark. But my bones are normally prescient, and not to be ignored.
>
> God bless mark Hammond and Python...and .NET.
>
> ...from one of the legions who will buy any future Mark Hammond book sight
> unseen.
>
> Ron Stephens



Mark Hammond wrote:

> Maan Hamze wrote:
>
> > This is a question for Mark Hammond.
> > The Buzzword these days is .NET, and quite frankly I have not had the time
> > to get familiar with this 'new' technology.
> > However, on all our NT servers we use PythonWin for ASP work; and in
> > addition, more recently, we got into the regular CGI Python scripts.  In
> > other words, we do depend on Pythonwin for ASP Python scripting.  Also,
> > recently, we are delving into using Python with COM objects beyond the mere
> > use for web pages.
> > In other words, PythonWin is emerging by itself to be a centerpiece package.
> > So the question is:
> > How will Microsoft .NET affect PythonWin and the way we do things through
> > ASP and Python at least.  If there is a website where you comment on these
> > things I can look at it.  Or you are welcome to offer some of your comments
> > here.
>
> This is a hard and politically loaded question :)
>
> The new world (.NET) and the old world (Python, Perl, etc) are really
> quite distinct.  To see all the benefits of .NET, you assume a world
> based on .NET.  So while .NET has some obvious and significant benefits,
> it does require a leap of faith to fully exploit them.
>
> I believe it will be a few years before .NET really starts taking off.
> It will be lead mainly by corporates - people commited to being a
> "Microsoft Shop" for their own strategic reasons.  In my opinion, large
> IT shops filled with mediocre programmers have very good reasons for
> making such decisions, so I imply nothing negative about such places or
> decisions.
>
> I honestly do not know where Python and Perl really will fit in this new
> world.  .NET imposes certain requirements on programs, so that the
> benefits of .NET can be realized.  However, these requirements can often
> work against languages such as Python.  The dynamic and introspective
> nature of Python is unlikely to be able to be exploited, unless .NET
> itself grows these same capabilities - and when .NET grows them, we can
> expect C# to also grow them.
>
> For example, in the ideal world, you could implement a Python class with
> __getattr__() functionality, and use that class from Visual Basic or
> from C#.  This is only likely to be possible if .NET itself grows
> support for expressing this level of dynamic attribute access, and if
> .NET itself has it, we could expect the popular MS languages to also
> grow such features - ie, the equivilent of __getattr__ implementation in
> C# or VB.  Once everything gets to the point where Python can express
> these things in .NET, why would you still use Python?  As much as the
> *syntax* of Python is very nice, it is not only the syntax that makes us
> love the language - it is the language as a whole.
>
> So if .NET has all the features necessary to allow Python to be fully
> utilized by other .NET languages, many shops will simply choose to use
> these other languages instead of Python - braces aren't *that* bad :)
>
> If .NET never has this capability, it will mean that Python itself can
> only take advantage of Python's features - so why use the .NET
> implementation of Python at all?
>
> But heck - I thought OS/2 was a sure fire winner :)
>
> Mark (who is certainly not speaking for his employer:)




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