Comment on draft PEP for deprecating six builtins

[Steve Holden]

"James J. Besemer" <jb at cascade-sys.com> wrote
> > [James J. Besemer]
> >
> > > I don't interpret this strongly worded and slightly sarcastic critique
to
> > > be hostile.
>
François Pinard wrote:
>
> > For me, sarcasm and strong wording are not welcome.  There are ways to
> > disagree, and even disagree much, while staying friendly.
>
> > Americans tend to value straight talk.  I put it all under the
> >  category of effective communication.  Being French
> > Canadian, this may be alien to you.

Well, speaking as a US-based Englishman (from Yorkshire, where sarcasm comes
as naturally as calling your best friend a stupid bastard) I have to say my
experience is that *some* Americans will *say* they value straight talk
until they actually receive some, Then one is being "aggressive".

Seriously, little mild-mannered me had to undergo self-administered behavior
therapy to stop me from saying what I really thought, just in the interests
of "getting along with my colleagues". The fact that they were building crap
web sites in a piss-poor language with no architecture and not even the
slightest acknowledgement that security might be important cut little ice
with the team, but we all got on a lot better after my lobotomy.

We got on even better after I left, and now I haven't spoken to any of them
for three years we are the best of pals.

> Although I agree with you that sarcasm and rhetorical questions are no
> substitute for a logical argument, they can put an effective emphasis on
an
> otherwise factual and logical post such as Logjam's (or whatever his name
is).
>
They can, but they can also alienate someone who is genuinely trying to
reach a meeting of the minds over some topic. Particularly if there's any
ambiguity about the intent of the sarcasm, which is after all a double-edged
sword. What's a rhetorical question?

> Nor is Sarcasm or frank talk necessarily unfriendly.  My close friends
tease
> each other mercilessly.  After an exchange that grew a bit tense at
points,
> Steve Holden and I emerged better friends and better acquainted with each
other
> than I think we would have otherwise.  Many people rely on close friends
to
> utter the bare truths that mere acquaintences would avoid.
>
So would this be a good time to say "Shut up, you stupid bastard"? In fun,
of course. Seriously, I'm joking. [See what I mean about the ambiguity?]

> I think you need to... [all together now]... Lighten Up.
>
> > I prefer intelligent discussions between nice people.
>
> Yeah, "Mean People Suck."
>
Indeed they do. And no matter where you go, there you are.

> Incidentally, by my count, *I* am the only victim of an unprovoked
personal
> attack on this list today.
>
stop-counting-it-will-only-depress-you-ly y'rs  - steve
--

Steve Holden: http://www.holdenweb.com/ ; Python Web Programming:
http://pydish.holdenweb.com/pwp/