Could Python supplant Java?

laotseu bdesth at
Thu Aug 22 04:12:51 CEST 2002

James J. Besemer wrote:
> brueckd at wrote:
[snip some thangs about dynamic typing vs static typing]
> I don't understand why this all is so controversial.

It is only when someone claims, against all evidences, that dynamic 
typing restrict a langage to scripting usage !-)

>  I haven't studied
> the official propaganda for a while but I was under the distinct
> impression that some form of early binding/type declarations -- as
> an optional feature -- was slated for Python 3.0.
> I think it would be a big win, the best of both worlds.  As an option,
> who could complain?

Certainly not me, and I do agree that having type check *as an option*, 
in a Lisp-like way, would benefit almost any language.

>>The perception that dynamically-typed languages don't work for large
>>applications is common, but it is a common *mis*conception (for example,
>>Google for one of the recent threads about successful large Python
>>applications - despite Python's limited popularity there are actually
>>quite a few large and successful Python projects - certainly too many to
>>be a fluke!).
> First off, I don't think 10K lines is that big of a project.  Although
> the industry mean is something like 200 lines per programmer month
> I know programmers who can produce a 10K application by
> themselves in a month.  100K lines and you're breaking out of
> the range of small projects, approaching what a good programmer
> can do in a year.
> I hear Zope is the one big Python APP and everything else is an
> also ran.  I accept this may be obsolete data but where is the
> current data?  Is there a reliable enumeration somewhere for
> Python?  Ideally one would like to see a histogram of lines of
> Python indexed by project.

Is 'number_of_lines' the only way to evaluate a project's complexity ? 
I'm not sure. BTW, if used, there should be a weight factor - hi level 
languages (like Lisp or Python) usually needs much less lines to make 
the thing work than lo level ones (C, C++... <troll>should I add Java ? 

>>I'll go so far as to say that languages such as C++, VB, Java, are
>>actually *less* suitable for very large projects than Python, and their
>>suitability *decreases* as the size of the project increases.
> As a statement of opinion, nobody can argue.  But as a statement
> of fact (as you've written it) I think it's more accurate to say the jury
> is still out on this trade-off.  Certainly the substantially larger installed
> bases in Each of the three alternatives is a partial counter-argument.

Well... If you go this way, you should also state that Windows is a far 
better OS than Linux, xxxBSD or MacOs.

I think you should read about the real reason why some languages are 
most used. As an exemple, my boss, who doesn't know a shit about 
programming, has decided that some crapy french so-called L4G was the 
one and only tool we should use for our projects, even if it's a buggy 
heap of junk that eat all CPU, freezes every twenty minutes and is a 
full mess to integrate with any other program. He's victim of an 
aggressive commercial politic. *We* (programmers) are also victims.


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