Draft Pep (was: Re: Let's Talk About Lambda Functions!)

[John Roth]

"Bryan Olson" <fakeaddress at nowhere.org> wrote in message
news:3D4E2E87.9070308 at nowhere.org...
> François Pinard wrote:
>
>  > The rumour states that Guido regrets having added `lambda' to
Python.
>  > I guess it goes beyond the mere `lambda' keyword: it is reasonable
to
>  > think that what Guido regrets is the addition of anonymous
functions.
>
> Contrary to popular belief, lambda did not add anoymous functions to
> Python.  Python had them even without lambda.
>
> def define_twice():
>      def _twice(x):
>          return x + x
>      return _twice
>
> print define_twice()(17)
>
> The above code passes 17 to a function which is not bound to any name.

It is bound to a name. Specifically, it's bound to _twice. The
fact that the name is part of the function's scope, and not the
enclosing class or module scope doesn't make it not a name!

>  > If the rationale is essentially reduced to the vague statement of a
>  > "continuous interest", it is a pretty weak rationale.  Before
anything
>  > else, the rationale should stress, in very convincing ways, why
anonymous
>  > functions should grow stronger in Python, instead of being faded
out.
>
> I tried to do that in a previous response.  Python should have a
> procedure builder which does not assign the procedure to a name,
because
> procedure in Python are first-class values and do not have intrinsic
> names.
>
> The current rules mislead people, away from an understanding of first-
> class procedures.  The variables to which a procedure is assigned has
> nothing to do with the value that is the procedure.  The name of a
> variable is not a property of a procedure value, nor is "anonymous".
Is
> (4, "hello") an anonymous tuple, or 7 + 2 an anonymous integer?
>
> Lack of a full lambda prevents Python from being a really good
teaching
> language.  Use of def hides the true semantics of procedures.  Just
> reading this thread one can see insinuations of an absurd notion that
> def is simpler than lambda.
>
>
>  > Also, recent additions in Python are said to significantly
alleviate most
>  > of the need for anonymous functions, so the rationale of this PEP
might
>  > explain why these additions are still not satisfactory on that
respect.
>
> A full lambda would alleviate the need for the more complex def.

I don't see how 'def' is more complex than a 'full lambda.' Possibly
you could elucidate?

John Roth