Autocoding >Re: "Introduction to Ethics",

Timothy Rue threeseas at
Thu Jan 24 21:30:19 EST 2002

On 23-Jan-02 17:51:51 ---name removed until ok'd for newgroups -- wrote:
>"Timothy Rue" <threeseas at> writes:

>> I know enough to know that I know more than I need to know, to know the
>> project I presented is a valid one.

>Autocoding is a nice dream, but it's a little like world peace.  It's
>not just a matter of saying "here's a great idea, do this".

World peace is alot closer than many realize and the more that do realize,
the closer it gets.

Knowledge is power, for having it alters how one reacts to situations and
in this knowledge, that might just be saying no to those up the chain of
command by a large enough number of people who know have seen another
possibility, to cause an improvement. Sure there is more to world peace
than what is at that link, but it is an effort that is moving forward
becomming more and more inclusive of the big picture, open with exercises
on solving world problems and even teaching the next generations. Many
people have heard of preventitive healthcare, but does anyone talk about
preventitive warfare? Where you spend less money solving problems that
would otherwise lead to growing stress levels, in order to reduce world
stress levels. Money has to move for there to be an ecomony, so where does
the savings go? Common Wealth?

We are learning what values people working together around the world can
accomplish, beyond politics and economies, thanks to GNU. But GNU has so
far been limited to those with focused skilled in programming. There are
many more people that have a very clear idea of what they want to do with
computers but don't have the tools that will allow them to do it for
themselves within the resources of what they have available (considering
their focus may very well be at being an expert at what they do for a
living.) So it either doesn't get done or they have to pay to then teach a
programmer what the solution is, what they want, and hope the student
learns before they run out of money to pay the student. Yes, different

There is much about current world happenings that can be followed back to
US based trigger points being fired off, but identify them and setting
laws against them, like anti-card counting in world stock markets - PBS -
"trillion dollar bet", or where did the dot com investments come from?
(I don't suppose you'd want to know the urls..)

Anyways, autocoding is something that the knowledge base.... well much of
it already exist in the form of unix style man pages and such references
so commonly found not only in the field of programming but many fields.
>From here its a matter of finding a use/integration/automation solutions
(whatever size) here and there, really no different than how GNU software
(whatever kernel) has developed/evolved. A little here, a bit there, an
improvement then an addition, a bigger picture perspective leading to
optimization, etc.. before you can see and get to c you have to go from a
to b.

What's missing is the common base/core tool that will allow anyone who
wants to help, to do so. And a component or modular based system won't
hurt but rather it can add much additional value, power and excitement to
a system and it's use. This tool pretty much amounts to a small shell, and
optionally a library, that contains nine commands with boring but logical
command options. Of couse a GUI can be placed over top of it....

People put things together, component and modular based systems provide
building blocks that people can use to build things with. Having an
automation tool to help them put things together.....

Writing a manual page can be very boring, but to write a manual page (or
even simpler - convert one) that is also usable in a automation process,
[at least - hardly changed at all, at most - containing directions for
further automations as part of the definitions]... though it too may be
boring, it may be a little more exciting. But for certain, such an
option/tool doesn't exist at this time. Of course more than just manual
pages can be handled, but its one place to start or work on, suggest, use
as an example....

Sometimes before you can move forward in a given way, you gotta create the
tool to do so.

When the Video Toaster and Lightwave was first released, many thought
everybody and their brother, sister, cousin, uncle, etc., were going to
all become animators and video production artist. And that doing so would
cause a flooding of the market, which would inturn cause a drop in wages
to earn. But what really happened is that the best animators turned out to
be those who studied film production. All that really happened is that we
got alot better at animation.

There is alot of stuff to do to create or convert the foundation of manual
pages and overly reinvented code, automating the do's, don'ts, standards.
The sort of stuff that most anyone can do. The sort of stuff the experts
should find boring, but the typical user might find alot more exciting,
especially if they are allowed to see it work and even make use of it
themselves, to some degree in their learning.

The way programs are done, the way a user has to interface with them, does
condition the user to think in terms of the program or more specifically
to think in terms of the programmer. Microsoft knows this as they
influence the user to accept false constraints and even the insinuation
that they, the user, is stupid. What a pathetic shell the DOS prompt is,
what a pathetic user oriented Windows IPC called DDE, is.

The GNU community can do much better than that. Even the Hurd concept of
servers and translators is helpful to introducing the users to
input/output translation components. In Fact, in the VIC, there is a place
to put input and output filter, translator, etc.. If Hurd servers are
easy enough for the non-programmer user to create (automated coding
process.... - well what could be harder than a full linux system custom
install/compile  - but that's actually been done in an automated manner by
at least two companies).... anyway such i/o translators/filters in the
Hurd might just be one less thing that is needed to be done in the VIC, fo
the Hurd.... I don't know, guess that is further down the road, somewhere
past e or f maybe. but something you can't see until you get to d.

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