Mono and Python

Samuele Pedroni pedronis at bluewin.ch
Wed Jan 2 16:58:43 CET 2002


Hi,

If I recall correctly, in some previous posts to the newsgroup on the topic,
Mark Hammond suggested that a bridgining approach (*) more like
JPE for java or the current win32com would be a simpler, better
straregy for python and .net interoperability. I don't remember
how much this was related to the bad performance experience
of the Python.NET prototype.

OTOH if someone longs for Python.NET it does not need
to start from scratch <wink>, my impression with some skimming
over the .net docs, is that you can more or less port
the Jython Java codebase to C# and CLR/.net. After you have
understood how to concretely exploit some
apparent/inutive mappings, e.g. AppDomain=ClassLoader
and worked around the possible differences, it is probably more
grunt work than rocket science.

If MS has not screwed up something badly performance-wise
and there is no weight mismatch (I mean something relatively
 lightweight on Java that has a heavy weight counterpart)
the initial result should be acceptable. And then you
can only improve ;).

Anyway both the JVM and the CLR as they are
do not offer a perfect match for python very dynamic
and very late binding semantics.

No, definetely I'm not volunteering for doing this.

regards.

PS (some-conspiracy-theory-just-for-fun):
the paranoid worst-case scenario with (*) is in case in the long run
MS make "hard" for "non-selected parties" to deploy/
develop non-CLR/managed code (i.e. native code) for
its OSes. It could even say that it is for security reasons.
Then you *need* Python.NET.

Don Tuttle <tuttledon at mailandnews.com> wrote in message
M2vY7.30030$mp3.18276900 at typhoon.southeast.rr.com...
>
http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/Dndotnet/ht
> ml/deicazainterview.asp?frame=true
>
> Interesting interview.  I'm also very interested in what Mark has to say
> about Python and .NET and Mono.  His early progress report
> http://www.activestate.com/Initiatives/NET/Python_whitepaper.doc was not
> encouraging.  And the fact that ActiveState has backed away from Python is
> even more ominous.
>
> It's clear that Miguel de Icaza believes .NET solves important development
> issues. ("We are doing this for selfish reasons: we want a better way of
> developing Linux and Unix applications ourselves and we see the CLI as
such
> a thing.") That seems to be born out by the better than expected support
the
> Mono project is receiving from developers outside his company.
>
> Sure would make me feel better to hear from the Python-dev community that
> Python can and will be a player in this new ball game.  Because, quite
> frankly, the silence of the past few months as been deafening.
>
> Don
>
>
> "Ron Stephens" <rdsteph at earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:3C3251E0.612B0401 at earthlink.net...
> > I continue to be intrigued by the progress of the Mono project, which is
> > spear-headed by the controversial Miguel de Icaza. There was a long
> > article by Miguel about Mono in the recent issue of Linux Journal, and
> > the project seems to be moving forward nicely.
> >
> > It is interesting because it is an attempt to achieve cross language
> > compatibility using a common language runtime and component system based
> > on the ECMA specs created by Microsoft for the .Net project. Mono is
> > essentially a partial recreation the .Net runtime environment on Unix
> > and Linux. Controversial, yes, but interesting.
> >
> > Slashdot just posted an interview with Miguel de Icaza where they
> > discuss the present status of Mono and it can be found at
> > http://slashdot.org/index.pl?section=developers
> >
> > I am wondering/hoping/speculating whether Python can/will/should
> > participate. Wouldn't it be nice to have an open source project  to
> > create a Mython version of Python, a completely compatible version of
> > Python that would run on the Mono clr, just as Jython runs on the JVM?
> >
> > I know it would be a huge undertaking, but it would be nice. Maybe it
> > would be even more important for Python to have a Mono compatible
> > version than it would be for Python to have a .NET compatible version,
> > but I don't know.
> >
> > Maybe both a .NET and a Mono compatible version of Python could be
> > created by one and the same open source project, given the similarities
> > between Mono and .Net?
> >
> > Mark Hammond has commented that creating a .Net version of Python is a
> > really big job, with a lot of pitfalls along the way. (ActiveState has
> > created a VisualPython.Net, but that is very different, it is a
> > capability to use the Microsoft Visual Studio IDE to create Python
> > programs, but not an ability for Python programs to run on the .Net
> > common language runtime, or clr.)
> >
> > Does anyone have any thoughts or comments on any of this?
> >
> > The recent Miguel de Icaza interview with Slashdot can be found at
> > http://slashdot.org/index.pl?section=developers
> >
> > Ron Stephens
> > http://www.awaretek.com/plf.html
> >
>
>





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