Idle setup install falis on Win2k

[David LeBlanc]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tim Peters [mailto:tim.one at comcast.net]
> Sent: Monday, July 08, 2002 20:57
> To: David LeBlanc; Python-List at Python. Org
> Subject: RE: Idle setup install falis on Win2k
>
>
> [David LeBlanc, wrestling with Idle on Windows]
> > BULLSHIT!
> >
> > RTFC!
> >
> > If you run /python22/tools/idle/setup.py install see what happens!!!
>
> Ah, you didn't mention setup.py before.  I didn't even know there
> was such a
> thing.  The PLabs Windows installer installed Idle by itself.  There's no
> need for you to run setup.py for Idle on Windows; I assume it's there for
> the benefit of the Unix distro, but I don't really know.

How else would one have installed Idle (as compared to installing Python?)

> [various unhappiness snipped]
> > ...
> > If /python22/tools/idle/setup.py shouldn't be run on Windows, WHY IS IT
> > THERE?
>
> The Windows installer-builder copies the entire Idle source
> directory; ditto
> the entire Lib directory; and so on.  I used to try to be more selective,
> but the way Wise works, copying a whole directory is trivial and
> fails soft,
> while trying to filter it leads to masses of hard-to-maintain script that
> fail hard.  It's a "better safe than sorry" tradeoff.

No argument with that.

> > Strange as it might seem to you, some Windows developers use a command
> > line and, at least in theory, if you install Idle, you should be
> > able to run it from a command line. (BTW, it did install in the python22
> > group of the start menu.)
>
> You already know that you can extract the command line needed from the
> installed shortcut's Properties, if you want to use a command
> line.  I have
> no axe to grind about that either way -- suit yourself.

Sure, I can type j:\python\tools\idle\idle.py to start idle from a command
line - but I should be able to just type "python idle.py" to get it to run
once it's properly installed. The real root of the problem seems to be that
idle.py and idle.pyw expect that either the scripts they use are in the same
directory or in sys.path (this does assume that those scripts are _in_
site-packages and not a sub-directory of it though). I don't know if U*x
Python puts tools/idle on sys.path, but I have never seen AS Python or PL
Python do so on Windows. (N.B. I do seem to recall that AS Python tweaks
things slightly differently then PL Python during install - I think AS puts
lib/tk in sys.path for some reason among other details.)

> > AS for things that "only work for me", I have reinstalled C++,
> Python and
> > re-built standaloneZODB and it STILL compiles and crashes. I personally
> > suspect all the weird and funny games that are played by SAZODB when it
> > loads. Why, for example, does it import things and then delete them?
> > (site-packages/zodb/__init__.py).
>
> As I've told you several times, I don't currently work on SAZODB as such.
> You should raise your ZODB issues on the ZODB mailing list.  I can assure
> you you'll get a lot of sympathy about the odd import tricks the
> code plays;
> there's an ongoing effort to reduce this obscure magicalness in Zope3 and
> ZODB4.

Yes you did.

> > Just because I'm the only one experiencing a problem DOES NOT mean that
> > there's not a problem with your (Zope's) code!
>
> Sure.
>
> > I'm glad you declared the problem solved and then just walked away.
>
> That's out of line, David.  I gave you a lot of help, and the last
> communication we had on the subject came from you on Saturday afternoon,
> where you said you were *going* to try some things ("reinstall VC6sp5
> without the AMD extensions ASAP (not today though").  I never heard more
> about that until now.  Now that I hear that it didn't work, I
> encourage you
> to send me the code you compiled, as I earlier sent you the code
> I compiled.
> The last I heard, the code I sent you worked for you.  It would be helpful
> to learn whether the code you compiled fails for me.

Yes, you did give me a lot of help and I do appreciate it, particularly
since (a) it's not your code, and (b) it was a direct communication and not
a ml post.

I asked you at least one question in the mail I sent you on Saturday, and
since I didn't receive an answer, I supposed (no _WAY_ am I going to assume
;-)) that you where not involved with the problem any more.

I don't recall your asking me to send you my breaking binaries (nor can I
find it in any of the emails from you). I will do that immediately.

BTW, as it turned out, I had d/l'd the VC AMD extensions, but had never
installed them.

> Chill out.

the decaf iced americano is doing that as we speak :)

> it's-just-a-computer-ly y'rs  - tim

Sorry to have been grumpy about this, it's just that the remark about it
being just another thing that fails only for me rubbed the wrong way. I
doubt that any "setup.py install" of Idle will work on Windows without some
tweaking to the two scripts put into python22/scripts. It's worth noting
that setup.py outputs a message to the console that it's doing some sort of
fixup on idle.py during install. It did modify the #! line to point to my
python install.

I do apologize if I seemed ungreatful about your assistance on the SAZ
problem. It was definately beyond the call of duty. I do appreciate the work
you and the other Python core people do to maintain and further Python.

Dave LeBlanc
Seattle, WA USA