Flushing stdout with raw_input - BUG

Michael Hudson mwh at python.net
Wed Mar 6 16:58:21 CET 2002

Jonathan Gardner <jgardn at alumni.washington.edu> writes:

> Michael Hudson scribbled with his keyboard:
> > Jonathan Gardner <jgardn at alumni.washington.edu> writes:
> > 
> >> I will write
> >> another bug report about the unresponsiveness to bug reports as well, as
> >> there are a lot of bugs that aren't even addressed at sourceforge.
> > 
> > Oh, that will help, sure.
> It is a bug. There needs to be a fix for it. Do you need more volunteers? 
> How do we get involved? Where do we sign up? What needs to be done? Maybe 
> there needs to be more coordination and less coding at the top.

Here I was just trying to point out the irony of a bug report saying
"there are too many bug reports".

> I did a semi-thorough investigation on the matter, and there really isn't 
> much information on how I make the move from being a python user to a 
> developer. Apparently it's by invitation only. Do I just keep submitting 
> bugs and patches and opinions and eventually someone will notice me

More or less, yes.

> or do I have a place where I can stand up and say, "HEY! I WANT TO

I think you'll find shouting only annoys people.

> > Please note that Python is a volunteer effort.  You have no right to
> > expect bug reports to be attended to.
> > 
> I can expect what I want. I have no right to see my expectations fulfilled, 
> unless I do the fulfilling.

Yeah, whatever.

> I understand that it is a volunteer effort. I am constantly appreciative of 
> the effort you and others are putting into it. 
> (http://sf.net/forum/forum.php?forum_id=154889)
> However, we can't go around saying Python is substandard because it is a 
> volunteer effort. We should be saying we are held to a higher standard 
> because we are a volunteer effort. Unlike Java or C#, we actually have to 
> perform, because we don't have a huge advertising fund and pushy 
> salespeople.
> >
> > However, they are.  I know *I* scan through open bugs fairly
> > regularly.  Martin von Loewis does the same.  I can only fix the bugs
> > I have time to fix, and so fix the bugs that seem to me to be worth
> > fixing.  I've spent multiple hours in just the past few days with my
> > head stuck deep in the Python internals, and TBH posts like this do
> > not make me think it was worth it.
> > 
> The way I was tutored was that getting a bug report was a *good* thing. 

A good bug report is a good thing.  I don't know if you realised it,
but your reports seemed to me to have a somewhat aggrieved, almost
aggressive, tone.  That is no help in a bug report.

> Anybody who thinks there are no bugs or few bugs should be shot. A
> programmer should appreciate a well-written bug report 

As Tim Peters once said, this editor doesn't go backwards :)

> because it helps improve the code and lets him spend more time
> coding and less time testing.
> I tried to be strikingly clear, because this has been brought up
> before and it seemed to have been regarded as unimportant. I wanted
> to emphasize that at least in my opinion it is important, and
> shouldn't be shoveled off to the side.

Fair enough.  I think you may have gone unecessarily far in this

> And TBH, are you doing this for yourself or for us? If you are doing
> it for us lusers who are unappreciative and consistently complaining
> and calling features bugs, then I am surprised you are still around.

I'm doing it to make Python a better product.

> > If you are interacting with a subprocess that is expecting to talk to
> > a user, you should probably be using pseudo-tty's.
> >
> That is a very good answer that I didn't think of. I did a search on Google 
> and came up with the expect module for python located at 
> http://sourceforge.net/projects/expectpy/ 
> Still, not quite what I was looking for, but since C seems to do exactly 
> what Python is doing, then maybe I need to help them at pyexpect and forget 
> about making Python behave differently from C. That way, there won't be 
> that nasty gotcha when they go and run a C program. I think I'll stop 
> complaining about raw_input and start working with the expectpy group.

If you'd been a little more dispassionate in your first post
(e.g. "I'm having this problem ... is it a bug that python does it
this way? ... is there a better way?") you might have got this answer
without me spending way too long thinking about the philosophies of
open source delevopment.  Or maybe you'd have got that anyway -- I
seem to be unusually cranky today :)

pseudo-terminals aren't the easiest things in the world to use.  Just
caring about linux probably makes life easier.  If you have problems,
I'm sure help can be found here...


  ZAPHOD:  You know what I'm thinking?
    FORD:  No.
  ZAPHOD:  Neither do I.  Frightening isn't it?
                   -- The Hitch-Hikers Guide to the Galaxy, Episode 11

More information about the Python-list mailing list