Flushing stdout with raw_input - BUG

[Jonathan Gardner]

Michael Hudson scribbled with his keyboard:
> Jonathan Gardner <jgardn at alumni.washington.edu> writes:
> 
>> I will write
>> another bug report about the unresponsiveness to bug reports as well, as
>> there are a lot of bugs that aren't even addressed at sourceforge.
> 
> Oh, that will help, sure.

It is a bug. There needs to be a fix for it. Do you need more volunteers? 
How do we get involved? Where do we sign up? What needs to be done? Maybe 
there needs to be more coordination and less coding at the top.

I did a semi-thorough investigation on the matter, and there really isn't 
much information on how I make the move from being a python user to a 
developer. Apparently it's by invitation only. Do I just keep submitting 
bugs and patches and opinions and eventually someone will notice me, or do 
I have a place where I can stand up and say, "HEY! I WANT TO HELP! WHAT DO 
I DO?"

> 
> Please note that Python is a volunteer effort.  You have no right to
> expect bug reports to be attended to.
> 

I can expect what I want. I have no right to see my expectations fulfilled, 
unless I do the fulfilling.

I understand that it is a volunteer effort. I am constantly appreciative of 
the effort you and others are putting into it. 
(http://sf.net/forum/forum.php?forum_id=154889)

However, we can't go around saying Python is substandard because it is a 
volunteer effort. We should be saying we are held to a higher standard 
because we are a volunteer effort. Unlike Java or C#, we actually have to 
perform, because we don't have a huge advertising fund and pushy 
salespeople.

>
> However, they are.  I know *I* scan through open bugs fairly
> regularly.  Martin von Loewis does the same.  I can only fix the bugs
> I have time to fix, and so fix the bugs that seem to me to be worth
> fixing.  I've spent multiple hours in just the past few days with my
> head stuck deep in the Python internals, and TBH posts like this do
> not make me think it was worth it.
> 

The way I was tutored was that getting a bug report was a *good* thing. 
Anybody who thinks there are no bugs or few bugs should be shot. A 
programmer should appreciate a well-written bug report because it helps 
improve the code and lets him spend more time coding and less time testing.

I tried to be strikingly clear, because this has been brought up before and 
it seemed to have been regarded as unimportant. I wanted to emphasize that 
at least in my opinion it is important, and shouldn't be shoveled off to 
the side.

And TBH, are you doing this for yourself or for us? If you are doing it for 
us lusers who are unappreciative and consistently complaining and calling 
features bugs, then I am surprised you are still around.

> 
> If you are interacting with a subprocess that is expecting to talk to
> a user, you should probably be using pseudo-tty's.
>

That is a very good answer that I didn't think of. I did a search on Google 
and came up with the expect module for python located at 
http://sourceforge.net/projects/expectpy/ 

Still, not quite what I was looking for, but since C seems to do exactly 
what Python is doing, then maybe I need to help them at pyexpect and forget 
about making Python behave differently from C. That way, there won't be 
that nasty gotcha when they go and run a C program. I think I'll stop 
complaining about raw_input and start working with the expectpy group.

Jonathan